Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Strip Clubs

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Strip clubs sell the dream of financial freedom, empowerment, and an intoxicating nightlife, but behind the flashing lights and VIP rooms, the reality is far more complicated. This week, Amanda and Chelsea are joined by special guest Luna Sofia Miranda (@luna_sofia_miranda), actress in Anora and dancer, to dive into the world of strip clubs, not just as spaces of entertainment, but as intricate ecosystems built on power, control, and illusion. Are dancers truly their own bosses? How do societal stigma and club culture shape the way we perceive this multi-billion-dollar industry? Join us as we unravel the cult-like influence of strip clubs and the contradictions that make them both liberating and entrapping.  Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.YEAH! Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at https://MINTMOBILE.com/cult Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. I thought by the time I left the club, I'd like own a house and like have a hundred K in investments, own multiple businesses. I'm tired, I'm drained. This isn't really working for me anymore I want to go but I feel like I can't because I'm not just leaving a job I'm leaving a community in a lifestyle and once you leave the stripper community You're kind of seen as like like you're not a sex worker anymore. You're a civilian. Ooh That's culty

This is sounds like a cult a show about about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel and I'm an author. And I'm your co-host Chelsea Charles and I am an unscripted TV producer. Every week on this show, we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cults in culture from Lululemon to Harry Potter to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out?

This cultish spectrum is so important every week, and I'll tell you why. Because cult influence in 2025 falls along a continuum. Not every group that looks all fanatical and fringing on the outside is destructive and exploitative, but also there are some groups that look really really innocent on the outside that could low-key ruin your life. So the point of this show is to figure out the difference. To analyze and poke a little bit of fun at human search for meaning in the 21st century,

and to legitimately critique how power abuse might show up in places that you wouldn't ordinarily think to look. Like neon lit stages, sky high heels, and dollar bills raining from the ceiling. Cue Rihanna. Pour it up, pour it up. Hello. Where empowerment is promised, but control is often

hidden in the fine print. We're talking strip clubs. Oh my gosh! I knew there would be a surprise. You're not watching on YouTube. You're missing out. There was a dollar gun, is that what that's called? Money gun, a money gun.

Oh my God, that was so invigorating. Holy shit. All right, now I'm in the mood. Yes. I was just saying, no one ever surprises me. That was so surprising. And like really well timed. I'm just saying. Why do you you have that I live another life, okay

strip clubs the seductive high stakes world that sells fantasy Independence and quick riches while operating under a power structure that keeps dancers Hustling for more. I'm just gonna put this fake $100 bill in my bra. What do you think that'll feel like? Feels good. A good psychologically and pretty bad physically. I'm gonna take it out. I am very paper-cut prone. That is a major risk with the cult of strip clubs. It's paper-cuts. Paper-cuts. Paper-cuts. No one talks about that. No, dang. That is a bait and switch. No, for real. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Sounds like a cult. That is a bait and switch. No, for real. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. SoundsLikeACult.com is a Squarespace website

and updating it is super easy every single time. Squarespace is a household name for a reason. Squarespace's design intelligence combines two decades of industry-leading design expertise with AI technology. Squarespace payments are also really cool. So if you're selling something on your website, you can manage all of your payments in one place. It's also really cool that you can sell content on a Squarespace website so you can charge a one-time fee or a subscription for access. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to

squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This podcast is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot yeah. I am not lying when I tell you culties that every single time I use Booking.com to find a hotel or a vacation stay in the US, I find exactly what I'm looking for. I'm planning a trip to New York. And I get very intimidated when trying to find a hotel in New York because it can be a racket.

Which is why I am so grateful for Booking.com. I legitimately use it in my real life to find whatever I'm looking for and I recommend that you do it too. There is something for everyone. No matter who you are or what you're looking for, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com. Booking. Yeah. You know what I think is kind of culty in a not-so-live-your-life kind of way? Traditional big wireless carriers who make you overpay on your wireless phone plan. I'm talking sky-high bills, bogus fees, perks that end up costing you more in the long run. It's culty out there in mobile phone land, which is why we recommend you check out Mint

Mobile. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your phone, your phone number on any Mint Mobile plan and take all your contacts with you. So ditch the overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless with Mint Mobile for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money,

Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash cult. That's mintmobile.com slash cult. Now, y'all are going to want to stick around for our interview today with an incredibly charming dancer and co-star of the movie Anora, who actually is a listener of this podcast and suggested this whole topic for it. Yeah. So when our guest floated this idea of doing the Cult of Strip Clubs, it actually reminded me so much of a topic we covered way, way, way back in our season one in 2021, the cult of feet. And I thought strip clubs was such a good idea to visit and to analyze through a cult lens, because I loved that cult of feet episode. It contrasted so well with the typical sounds like a cult episode that we do, which is like a group like Disney Disney adults or Trader Joe's or Sephora that seems really innocent and commonplace on the outside. You might get a feeling that there's something culty about it but when you look

underneath the surface you really realize oh my god there are all these power structures and hierarchies and psychological manipulation that really seems culty. Strip clubs though like the foot fetish world are a community that is underground and there's a lot of mystery and sort of scandal around it. But when you look under the hood, the things that seem culty might not actually be. And yet there are other things about it that are unassumingly culty. So I'm just so excited to explore the shape of that.

But we were like figuring out who wanted to produce this episode and what that was going to look like and you jumped on it What is your relationship to strip clubs Chelsea? I'm very passionate about strip club, right? I have a few friends who are in the industry and Because this falls under the umbrella of sex work. I champion sex work. I champion dancers I champion anyone with an entrepreneurial spirit, taking control of their own destiny. I love what strippers, exotic dancers,

just represent. Yeah. Our culture. Me too. So the guest that we're gonna have on later is friends with one of my buddies, Ra Ra Darling, who's a burlesque dancer who opens up the big magical cult show,

which is like the live show that I do. But we both grew up sort of not so much one of my buddies, Rara Darling, who's a burlesque dancer who opens up the big magical cult show, which is like the live show that I do. But we both grew up sort of not embracing our sexuality for various reasons. And so I've always been really mesmerized and a little bit intimidated and super inspired by those who like embody that so proudly. And when I first moved to LA,

one of the establishments that I started frequenting most was Jumbo's Clown Room, which is not really a strip club. It's more like a burlesque dive bar, I would say, for those listening who don't know it. But a friend of a friend was working there when we were like 22 or 23. And that was my first exposure to this world. And it was like super positive.

But then again, I know that there is a lot that goes on that is a little too cultish for comfort. And I'm interested to hear from our guests and sort of explore that. Yeah, to your point about the intimidation aspect, I resonate with that so deeply because I always felt like I was a late bloomer and I always just felt super awkward in my own sexuality and my own identity.

And seeing people who just show up in the world and own it, specifically with exotic dancers, like with the ability to move in a room and talk to this person, it's so intimidating, but also seems so freeing. Yes, and it seems to me like an art, a language, but it's also famously persecuted. And when something that is so special, but on the fringes of society is sort of demonized and glamorized at the same time,

that can really pave the way for a cult to form around it. A cult of sorts. I also want to kind of state before we get into our interview and before we keep talking about this, that it's a delicate dance talking about strip clubs in the context of cultishness because I feel like there are some right-wing, very oppressive towards sex work perspectives that aim to frame stripping and sex work, like, OnlyFans and stuff like that as culty, as a way to dehumanize those who are involved, or I guess their goal might be to discourage, like,

young people from getting involved with that or whatever. And that is, like, so not our point of view here. Yeah, no, no. Actually,, so not our point of view here. No, no. Actually, we follow the opposite end of the spectrum. The opposite. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm just really curious to learn more about this world that is, again, like so alluring and so tantalizing and something that sounds like we both have just kind of like brushed up against. And then maybe we'll take a poll class. We have to. Who would your dancer alter ego be? Charles Chelsea. Chuck.

Charlie? Like drag king stripper. I kind of love that. With a top hat and like a tackle. Yeah, no, 100%. I'm kind of like imagining Mr. Peanut. Like a monocle, but like also a shot of glittering bra. Okay, nevermind, nevermind.

We'll workshop it. We'll take it back to the drawing board. Sorry, I'm suggested it. No, no, no, no, no. What about yours? I do have like a little bit of like a sexy alter ego. Okay. But I'm not gonna just talk about that on the microphone.

Okay, okay, okay, okay. But I feel like gonna just talk about that on the microphone. Okay, okay, okay, okay. But I feel like there is some kind of like sexy librarian stripper vibe that I could like embody maybe. I can see that. You know? It's like maybe I could put bookmarks in the money gun. I need to tap into this world and tap out of my own head for a while. And for that, let's introduce our guests. ["Sounds Like a Cult"] Okay, so today on Sounds Like a Cult, we've got a very special guest.

Luna Sofia Miranda. Luna is a dancer and actress, best known for her supporting role as Lulu in the film, Anora, which coincidentally won four Oscars, including Best Picture last night. I can't believe you're here. Like we woke up and we're like, what are the chances this interview is happening today?

I was watching the Oscars last night. And when I saw you run up on stage in that gold dress, I was like, I am so excited for her. There goes our recording. No, but you're here. No, I want you to know that my team wanted me to go to several more after parties. And I was like, I have a very important podcast interview tomorrow. I will not miss this for the world.

Here we are. I'm obsessed. Speechless. Yeah. Genuinely like, you're a true cultie. You like skipped the Oscars. So that's... That's... I'm obsessed. Speechless. Yeah. Genuinely like, you're a true cultie. You like skipped the Oscars. That's some rock star shit.

Like refreshed person. Sounds like a little, oh my God, an honor and a pleasure. Thank you for being here. Right back at the both of you. I'm so grateful and delighted to be here. Luna, can you do us a favor and introduce yourself, your work and your relationship to the world of strip clubs? Yes, absolutely. Hello everyone. I'm Luna, born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. I started

dancing at a strip club when I was 19 years old to pay for theater school. I'm 26 now, so it's been a couple of years. And in 2022, I met Sean Baker at the strip club where I work, Pumps, and he cast me in Enora. And so now I'm going back and forth between the strip club and the film industry. And I also make it my mission to advocate for other strippers and sex workers in Hollywood, because I wouldn't be here without my community. wouldn't be here without my community. Climb that, baby. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform where professionals of any kind can create

a beautiful website, grow their audience, and sell anything from products to content to your valuable time. Sounds like occult.com is a Squarespace website and updating it is super easy every single time. I am not technologically skilled and I never have an issue. Squarespace is a household name for a reason. It has all these cutting edge features to help you create the website of your dreams. For example, Squarespace's Design Intelligence, which combines two decades of industry-leading design expertise with AI technology to help you unlock your unbreakable creativity. Squarespace payments are also really cool. So if you're selling something on your website, you can manage all of your payments

in one place. Onboarding is fast and simple, just a few clicks, and then you can give your audience so many options for how they want to pay, whether it's Apple Pay, ACH Direct Deposit, Klarna, so many options. It's also really cool that you can sell content on a Squarespace website. So if you're an artist or a photographer selling a course or a membership, you can put that stuff behind a paywall and then charge a one-time fee or a subscription for access. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This podcast is brought to you by booking.com. Booking. Yeah. I am not lying,

not exaggerating when I tell you culties that every single time I use booking.com to find a hotel or a vacation stay in the US, I find exactly what I'm looking for. Some may know, because I've been talking about it on the podcast for weeks, I'm planning a trip to New York. A friend of mine is getting married. I'm trying to see a Broadway show. I'm trying to catch up with some old friends.

And I get very intimidated when trying to find a hotel in New York, because it can be a racket. Which is why I am so grateful for booking.com. I'm so excited they're sponsoring this podcast podcast because I legitimately use it in my real life to find whatever I'm looking for. And I recommend that you do it too. If you're trying to find something bougie or something a little thriftier or something kid-friendly, they truly have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation stays, there is something for everyone.

No matter who you are or what you're looking for, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com. Booking.yeah. So since your role in Enora is on the brain, could you talk generally about strip clubs portrayal in Hollywood and how that has made it seem more or less culty than what it really is? Absolutely. That's a great question. Most people don't know anything about strip clubs. And for those of us that work in this world, we find a lot of the portrayals in Hollywood problematic because they make it look either insanely tragic or very glamorous. And I think the glamorization aspect is very culty because it's this idea that it's the American dream rags to riches Cinderella myth.

That you're going to join this community, this industry, this space, and find money, fame, clout, and like fulfillment. Sometimes that happens, not always all four at the same time, but people don't talk about a lot of the more difficult and hidden culty things that happen. And especially because I kind of have a Cinderella story of having met this famous director in the strip club and now going to the Oscars. It's very important to me to tell people it's not all a fairy tale. There's a lot of hidden stuff. Okay, so off the top, cause I just can't wait,

could you maybe tease some of what the most unexpectedly culty things about the strip club world might be and how those contrast with the imagined cultishness that most everyday people might think about the industry. Well, you know what? It's interesting you bring that up because all my friends are strippers. I've been in this industry so long. I genuinely like don't know what other people think about us. Amazing. Maybe if you guys tell me what you know, like from the outside, we can compare and contrast.

I think there's always the fighting aspect that is portrayed in movies. I can think about specifically as a child sneaking to watch Players Club, and I always remember from that movie how many stripper fights would happen. And I don't know if we have sensationalized that in a way because it's like, I don't know. You know how guys think it's so sexy for women to just be like naked and fighting? So I don't know if that's an actual aspect of stripper life, but that's what I perceive all the time. That's a good one. Yeah.

Yeah, I think like another thing that maybe outsiders think is that stripping is easy, because it's like just, it's like, oh, you're just like a hot girl, like shaking your ass. I would never think that, but like, I think some people are a little jealous. They are jealous. You cannot do this job unless you're willing to strategize

and have a hustle. I have spreadsheets. I analyze my income. I analyze my client base. Excel to Excel, you know? Yes. Yes! And I, sometimes my old tried and true methods don't work, and I gotta reframe and be like, okay, what's my new business plan?

It could never be an easy job. I think about all the skills you have to even have to be a successful dancer, because you can't be shy. You have to be able to put yourself out there. Also, I don't want to sound creepy when I say this, but these dancers have the most supple and well taken care of bodies. So it's like, you have to also be able to maintain that because that's all a part of selling the thing. And then the money aspect, I am on Stripper Talk and I watch the girls count their bills all the time. And I'm like, dang, this must be a lot to even like,

try to keep track of the financial aspect. Like that seems like a hard job. Seriously, you like are a sort of at times devalued or like misconceived of small fucking business owner. Yes. Yes. Period. You know? Because you are your own product.

Yeah. And then you have to maintain your own thing, your own everything. Yes. Oh, there's so much in co- I mean, the aesthetic is very different. The flavor is very different. But I am noticing some similarities with multilevel marketing for sure. Oh my God. Being a stripper feels a lot like being in an MLM because you've joined this exclusive community and it's almost like you've achieved enlightenment.

Like now you know the secret to success, you can't go back. The difference between strip clubs and MLMs is that strip clubs, it's a cult that doesn't want you. A lot of people who have joined these big cults, especially like new religious movements felt like for the first time ever they'd been seen and heard and understood. A strip club is more like a sorority. It's like, we don't fucking want you. You don't have what it takes. We think you're going to go home in an hour. And that makes you

want it more. You're like, oh yeah, you don't think I can do this? I'm gonna show you that I can join your cult. So you asked us a question about the outsider's impression of what's culty about strip clubs was, but we would love to know from you what you think is actually culty. So thank you for sharing with me the mainstream kind of perspective on strip clubs because I've been in it for so long Like all my friends are strippers. I forget most people don't know this world But I think that constant catfighting between strippers and also the glamorization of the industry is probably like what the normies Think is culty about strip clubs What I think is really culty about strip clubs is that we all know to a certain degree,

especially after the first two, three years, that it's not as good as it seemed at first. When you're three years deep, it's kind of like, okay, I'm in deep. How long am I going to stay? What are my options? But even though we disagree with the glamorization of the industry, I personally, and I think a lot of people feel compelled to upkeep that image. Because it works in our favor, sometimes. There's a reason why rappers and film directors

and fashion designers go to strip clubs to find actresses and models and muses. It's because the glamorization of the industry gets a lot of clout and that could benefit us. So even though we know it's a facade, it's hard to deviate from that because even we, knowing what we know, are hoping that we're gonna get an opportunity.

I mean, that is low key like the American dream indoctrination that is so hard to resist no matter what industry you're in. I feel this way about the publishing industry. When someone wants to publish a book or when someone wants to start a podcast, I know so much and like it can get really ugly like a lot of different ways. But my instinct almost like naturally is like, oh my God, yes, glamorize it because yeah, I guess part of me wants to uphold that delusion for myself.

I just completely relate to what you're saying. And now that we're talking to you, I'm like, I have all kinds of normie asked questions that I've popped in my head. So the other thing that I, as an outsider, think about strip clubs is, and this is maybe wrong, but in terms of culty gender dynamics and the illusion of intimacy within strip clubs,

I think that men who go in there are like these creeps, but that women who go in there are like cool, like a friend. But I assume that that's not always the vibe. Could you dispel or like confirm? Yes. So a wide variety of men go to strip clubs. Some of them are straight up creeps and it's like, you need to leave. Some of them are just like, whatever. And there are some that are really great. I'm really lucky I've been able to kind of build a roster of loyal clients that are amazing. And my rule is if you're mean, I just don't talk to you.

And so my guys are really awesome. And they're really cool, like normal dudes. Most of them are early 30s to mid 40s. They work in like tech, finance, legal, and a lot of them are just like chill dudes and sometimes they don't even want like a sexual interaction. They just want to talk and like hang out. I get all the culty guys. All of my guys want to come and like talk to me about like AI and like doomsday and how do we think the world is gonna end? I feel like- They just want a woman's take on their life. Oh my god. To doomsday AI ask Tech Bro world. But now that I'm thinking about it, does that feel like,

cause you're interfacing with so many different people every day and absorbing so much information. Do you feel at all, it's rewarding in a sense, having those conversations with these people? Yeah, it can be very rewarding and simultaneously draining. A good party can still be draining. Yes. And I frequently wake up with laryngitis. Yeah.

Because she's a podcaster, not on the record. Okay. Clocky. But I will say that when times are tough financially, a lot of those loyal patrons disappear. Right now is one of those times. And so we're forced to talk to people that might not be great, that might be creepy or just really annoying or just exhausting. And sometimes people also don't show their true colors right away.

I feel like when you're a stripper, you have to develop intuition. And within 30 seconds, I can be like, okay, you're gonna sexually assault me. I'm leaving. But sometimes people hide it really well. And then like 30 minutes into an interaction, they do some creep shit and you're like,

you almost get angry with yourself. I will say strip clubs are very culty places They're like these Dionysian temples that are built for male pleasure And even though I work at a club that is known for being very queer and very women-friendly It is not a space for women. It is not a space for queer people It is a space for men and I think when a lot of women customers come they're confronted with this objectification of women's bodies in the most capitalist sense where they might be feeling uncomfortable about how they look About the fact that like their male friends are

Looking at these women and a lot of them tend to act really badly toward the dancers Not want a tip not want to, not know how to act. And when I'm in the club, they annoy me. And I'm like, why are you here to be mean to the girls? You mean the female patrons who come in? Yes, female. That is gross. Yes, yes.

I actually, I have seen this at the one strip club that I'm really familiar with, which is Jumbo's Clown Room in LA. But my exposure to it was through a dancer. So like I learned the etiquette, but I think you're completely right. There are women who enter strip clubs who immediately sense the sort of competitive atmosphere that society in general sets up for women on steroids, and it causes them to behave in ways that are actually really antagonistic and not really allied. And that sort of orchestration of conflict among women in a space created for men's enjoyment definitely seems cultish in a way that I hadn't really thought of before. This is a PSA for anyone who rents your home.

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So to do that, let's kind of rewind back to the origins of exotic dance. So we were reading about how strip clubs didn't emerge out of nowhere. On the contrary, exotic dancing has these deep historical roots. The modern strip tease became popular in the 1920s and 30s, but the practice of erotic dance dates back much further. Its origins can actually be traced back to ancient Greece, where sensual performances were part of various rituals. Additionally, seductive dances were integral to the cultural rituals of the Samvanshni dynasty

in East India and to the performances of Japanese geishas, whose art form dates back to the 18th century, around 1751. The modern strip club boom, however, began in the 1960s and 70s, which is famously known as peak cult era in the United States. But that was also the time of the modern sexual revolution, and that coincided with the rise of legalized adult entertainment. So clubs like the Lusty Lady in San Francisco,

Scores in New York, and Magic City in Atlanta helped shape the industry into the cultural giant that it is today. Speaking of Magic City, has anybody ever been to Magic City? I've never been to Atlanta, but I have to go because it's one of the pilgrimages that like a stripper can take is to Atlanta. Oh wow, I didn't know that. Baby, I have been to like strip clubs before going to Magic City, but I go to Atlanta a lot for work.

And one particular night, my friends are like, we want to take you to Magic City, like my local friends. And I was like, okay, whatever. I'll go. Oh my God. The feeling that I felt when walking through that door, it felt like opening the wardrobe to Chronicles of Narnia. There's this big, huge security guard

where I'm so cheesy and green. I take out my phone and I'm like, trying to record. And he's like, there's no filming in Magic City. And I'm like, oh. I'm glad he was doing his job. Is that a common standard that isn't enforced? It is a very common standard and it is very commonly not enforced.

Okay. See, I mean, a lot of people, the general public may not know that. I'm a part of the general public. The strip clubs that I've been to, they're very like rag tag and you can do anything you want. No, they don't play that in Magic City. Also, famously, they have Magic City wings.

So you can go and enjoy your Magic City wings while watching some of the most insanely beautiful dancers get up and do the most insanely beautiful dancers get up and do the most insane things. Acrobatic, yes. You mean chicken wings, not butterfly wings that you can put on, right? Oh no, sorry, definitely chicken wings. That's, so the butterfly wings,

you can do that at my strip club, Pumps. Amazing. My club, Pumps, is in Brooklyn. It's in East Williamsburg, bordering Bushwick. It's where all of the cosplay, alt, emo, like Bushwick art hoes work, myself included. We have someone who wears butterfly wings on stage regularly.

Gorgeous. Yeah. But I guess that, and we have so much to get to, but kind of what we're discussing makes me want to ask at this juncture, who would you say are the cult leaders and cult followers here? That is such a good question.

You know how some of the cults, there's a very clear pyramid, like with MLMs and some of the more scary cults, like Heaven's Gate and the Manson family. Then there are other cults where it's kind of spread out, like Disney adults or even like QAnon. Yeah, I don't think there's a one leader. I think that we've all bought into it.

And I will say, even though there's no leader, there are people benefiting, which would be the people who own the strip clubs. They're benefiting the most. And I think strippers in a way, we are leaders because we create the cult, but I think we're also followers. Yes, upholding that fantasy image. Yeah.

And the reason why I say there's no leader is because even though the strip club owners are technically the leaders of the individual cult of each strip club, the overall culture of strip clubs is like governed by so many different people. And I think that's where there's no one leader. That's a green flag because it's, I don't want to use the word meritocratist,

but it's at least like a little more of a chaotic free for all, like in a good way. That's an excellent way to put it. Okay. Let's talk a little bit more about the ins and outs of this cult. Yeah, because you made a good point about how the true leaders in this whole thing, the people that benefit the most would be the strip club owners. So I have a little background about behind the scenes that I wanted to talk about. So in mainstream media, strippers are often celebrated as savvy hustlers, turning their

performances into lucrative ventures and embodying financial independence. From hit songs to viral social media moments, they are portrayed as power players who can command wealth and status with their charm, which I'm so jealous of, and skill and business acumen. However, behind the scenes, the financial reality of exotic dancing can be far more complex. In the world of exotic dancing, some clubs employ tactics that create financial challenges for dancers, sometimes without their knowledge.

Common practice is the use of a fake currency system where clubs issue VIP tokens or lap dance tickets that appear to be legitimate forms of payment but ultimately funnel money back into the club's pocket, leaving dancers with less than they earn. Fucked. Additionally, many dancers face hidden costs when they make VIP sales, such as secret fees are often deducted by managers and bouncers. These individuals can take up to 30% of a dancer's earnings, leaving the performer with a significantly

smaller share. The power dynamics in these clubs also play a role in the way dancers are treated and compensated. Dancers often find themselves at the bottom of the hierarchy with bartenders, DJs, bouncers, and VIP hosts enjoying more power, especially since these staff members act as gatekeepers to high-paying clients. In an article in Mel magazine, it quotes Alice, a Joshua Tree dancer, in her first-hand experience with Funny Money. It cites it as just another way to screw over dancers, she says.

Quote, it was used to make sure their cards cleared before you got paid out. It was really dumb, to be honest. Sometimes they'd underpay our funny money, or when it came time to pay us, they'd claim that the customer canceled the transaction. This is the thing, I'm shaking my ass, and you are profiting off of that.

I mean, honestly, you go into it with the knowledge of like you're going to dance and obviously, we know that someone owns the club. However, to deceptively do something so that you can undercut me is fucked up. Did you ever have to navigate any type of like hidden fees or fake currency? Always. From the very, very beginning. And I'll say it wasn't always this way. I was not a stripper in the 90s because I had not been born yet. Go on. But I've heard from older dancers, including dancers that I work with, that back in the day, you actually got paid an hourly fee to dance,

and they didn't take a cut of your money. I think in the late 90s with the rise of porn and the internet, strip club owners felt the need to compete, and the lap dances and the stage sets were not enough. They started selling VIP rooms, and it became less focused on entertainment and more focused on selling services and Everyone was making less money at this point. So I think people would say okay. Well, if you put me on this set I'll pay to be on that set That's what one person told me the dancers were making such little money that people started paying to be on like the midnight set And that was just one person's experience.

I've had other people say, no, we were all making money. They just wanted to take a bigger cut. There's many sides to the lore, but case in point, in the late 90s, this big shift happened. No more hourly wages. You're not being paid and you start paying fees to work. And then they're taking cuts of your money at the end of the night. Ooh. So fake currency, it's like Disney dollars or like Monopoly money. And basically it's kind of

genius because if you make a thousand dollars and then your boss takes $300 at the end of the night, that feels really bad and that will make a lot of workers very angry. That happens all the time. But some strip club owners have adopted a different approach, which is instead of the client paying you for lap dances and VIP rooms, they pay the house and in exchange you get a coin or a ticket or a slip of paper. And at the end of the night, you give that funny money, we call it, over to management and they pay you your cut. So they give you your $700 and they keep the $300, but it's just a weird psychological trick where instead of feeling like something was taken away, you feel like

you're gaining something. Oh, it's so deceptive. It's smart. And it's like, at my club, we get these colorful little tokens for selling lap dances and drinks. It's like Mario money. Like, oh, like all my tokens and I'm going to go give them to my boss and he's going to give me half of my sale. It makes me think of the very cultish pattern that materializes in MLMs and similar organizations where like they give you symbolic currency and honors

that are supposed to mean something real but they only mean something to people inside of the cult whether it's a nexium sash or a title in Mary Kay like diamond Cadillac or whatever and so then once you leave the cult you're like wait that meant nothing. That's a really good point because we do get paid out for our tokens. We get cash. But I remember when I first started working at the club, I was bringing my boss 25, 30, 40 tokens a night. And each one of those tokens is worth 10 to $15 to him, not counting what it's

worth to me, but I felt like, oh my God, look at all this money that I made. And even though we were splitting it, I felt so proud. Like I made money for the house tonight. And now 2024 recession, 2025 pandemonium, uncertainty. I'm lucky if I get like 10 tokens and the shame that I feel, even though I'm making money for them, the shame that I feel even though I'm making money for them the shame that I feel at Like not bringing in this like wealth It's like competitive almost and and we watch each other cash out and you can see when someone drops like a big pool of

Tokens it's like oh like she's good like she's one of the top earners and it makes you want to be like I need to go make more tokens or what if they take me off of Friday night? What if they won't let me work Saturdays anymore? Yeah, it's like a higher sticks version of like a Peloton leaderboard. That really made me think about how the dynamic between the dancers like shifts based upon who brings in what?

Because I don't know if it's my personality trait, Capricorn vibe, but if I'm bringing in a trillion coins for the house and someone else is like bringing in two, I think I would feel a type of way if I'm in that environment. Obviously it's competitive, but do you feel like there is some sort of like animosity between dancers because of that? Yeah, I mean, I think that strip club owners tend to play favorites a lot.

And if you're a high earner, you're going to be a favorite. However, there is the old reliable veteran stripper who may have been at that club for 10, 15, 20 years. And even if a new dancer is making more money than them, a lot of strip club owners are loyal to the vet Dancers because a new dancer can come in and make all this money But might disappear the veteran dancer might be making less money per night But it may be stretched out over a longer period and I think a lot of smart strip club owners

Kind of try and strike a balance between like the house girls that you know are going to be ride or die for the club. And then the shiny new dancers that are going to make quick, fast cash. There's a social calculus. Yes. And that manipulation of social dynamics is, I think, culty to say the least. So let's talk a little bit more about the financials and the psychology. So one of the most enticing aspects of being a dancer it seems is the sense of independence it offers. Unlike traditional jobs strippers are often their own bosses of sorts setting their own schedules, choosing their own clients

sometimes, controlling their own hustle sometimes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the allure of that sort of financial autonomy can feel empowering, but the very thing that makes dancing appealing, the ability to make thousands in a single night potentially might also be what keeps dancers, as you sort of alluded to, trapped in the industry longer than they may have intended. So like many cult-like spaces, strip clubs might create an illusion of control while subtly fostering financial and emotional dependency. Do you think that the hustle of the industry can be addictive at all or make it difficult

to walk away into more traditional work in any sense at all? Yes, there is something known as new girl money. And new dancers tend to make a lot of money. And that initial rush of endorphins that happens when you're going home every night with like one or 2K or more in your pocket, it is so addicting. It is like a drug.

It is unforgettable that even though I've been consistently making pretty bad money for like a drug, it is unforgettable that even though I've been consistently making pretty bad money for like a year, I never forget that initial rush and I'm waiting for that to happen again. I think all of us are just because 2024 was so hard and I work with a lot of powerful hustlers. We all used to make a lot of money and I think a lot of us are like, we're holding on. We don't want to go work in the office because we're like, no, we know what we're capable

of. But I think it's also the mentality that you kind of adopt when you become a stripper where you're like, I work for myself. I go to bed at 5 a.m. and I don't have to set an alarm. I make cash. I'm off the books. Oh, it's kind of it's kind of libertarian. It's almost like you're saying guys pop in there and they're like, I want to talk

about doomsday prepping. I want to talk AI. There's almost like a very compatible lawlessness between something as sort of like high end and premium and like gag me with a spoon, but as Silicon Valley and something as kind of taboo as strip clubs. There's almost a similar compatible lawlessness. That is such a good point. And I'd never thought about that in that way.

But most of the strippers I know are liberal, but because we're essentially kind of like influencers, we're each running our own small business. But I think that attitude of like, I'm not a normie. I get to wear bikini and Aiden's heels to work. I'm up late. Like I think that attitude of like, I'm not a normie. I get to wear bikini and Aiden's heels to work. I'm up late. Like I'm a rock star. I'm a badass. I don't have a boss. I think that is what keeps us in this industry longer than we anticipated because it's this sense of freedom. And even when you're making shitty money, you're like, I can go home if I want to. I don't have to come in tomorrow and the most

Devastating image that plays in my mind is of me like hanging up my stripper heels Going on the computer to apply for a job Working at an office and making a stable paycheck maybe having health insurance But I'm getting that itch of like but I miss being this like big bad hustler. And it's crazy because I know in my mind, maybe it's time to go. Maybe it's time to leave the club. Now that you want an Asuka.

Right. I thought, you know, by the time I left the club, I'd like own house and like have a hundred K in investments and like own multiple businesses. I'm tired. I'm drained This isn't really working for me anymore I want to go but I feel like I can't because I'm not just leaving a job I'm leaving a community in a lifestyle and once you leave the stripper community, you're kind of seen as like like you're not a sex worker

Anymore, you're a civilian. Ooh Okay, that's that's culty. Exactly, like let's go down the checklist. Exit costs, you lose your community, you're seen as less than. Sense of superiority when you're inside of it. Sense of like, I'm not like other girls, you know? Like that sort of exclusivity,

that sort of sense of transcendence. The sunk cost fallacy is on steroids because that is the bias at play in the minds of so many cult followers. You think like, I was promised that I was going to achieve a larger-than-life experience here and it's not like it was at the start, but like I need to hunker down and like honor my sunk costs or else what was all this even for? But like I can relate so much. I mean, like we're all theater kids, right?

Yeah. Gang gang. Yep. And like you even get this in not so small doses when you're a theater kid where like there is this sense that like if you have a fallback plan, you will fall back on it. You need to double down on wanting to be a star or you will be a normie and you will live like a less valid life. Growing up in theater, you are really taught that and you really believe it.

And deconstructing just that has been difficult for me in my life. So deconstructing like all the way up the cult spectrum, it just becomes harder and harder, you know? Absolutely. To that same point, I'm like, I struggled my entire existence with that, but it's always something. It's like, if you have a fallback plan, the plan B of doing whatever,

then you're not really in this cult. If you transition and move into film, which I did, then you're not in the theater cult. If you leave film scripted and go into unscripted reality TV, which I did, then you're not in the theater cult. If you leave film scripted and go into unscripted reality TV, which I did, then you're not in the film. They make you feel like it's a less valid way of existing. And logically, you know that it's not, but that's the cult at play in your nervous system, right?

So, I wanted to touch on some of the discriminatory practices in the hiring process in strip clubs. Getting hired isn't usually straightforward. Dancers often face cryptic interviews, secretive hiring practices, and subjective selection based on appearance and personal connections. Despite the illusion of inclusivity, racial discrimination is a longstanding issue in strip club hiring practices. Numerous black and Latina dancers have reported being turned away from clubs or even given fewer shifts

than their white counterparts, with management justifying these choices by claiming customers prefer a certain look. Some clubs even enforce unofficial quotas, limiting the number of Black dancers allowed to work in a given night. High-profile lawsuits, such as the one brought up against Houston strip clubs, have exposed this discrimination, revealing how Black dancers were routinely denied work or given less favorable working conditions.

In many cases, club owners and managers have been accused of perpetuating systemic bias by favoring lighter skinned performers, reinforcing harmful beauty standards that prioritize Eurocentric features. In an article in the Houston Chronicle entitled, Woman Who Sued Strip Clubs For Allegedly Denying Her Work For Being Black Petitions Supreme Court,

it states that in a lawsuit filed in 2021, Chanel Nicholson, a former dancer at several Houston strip clubs, alleged that management would send her and other black dancers home from their shifts, stating that there were too many black girls working at the same time. Nicholson claimed that this practice was routine, with managers often sending her home upon arrival for her assigned shift,

citing the presence of excessive number of black dancers. She further alleged that in the summer of 2021, two clubs declined to rehire her because of her race. In her lawsuit filed in 2021, it was dismissed in 2023 due to exceeding the four-year statute of limitations, a decision upheld by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in 2024. Nicholson's attorney argued that if the Supreme Court

does not intervene, it could become more difficult for individuals facing discrimination to pursue similar litigation in the future. So I have a question for you. Do you have any first-hand experience with discrimination that you experience or witness that you could share with us? Yes.

So I'm half white, half Latina. I don't experience so much discrimination from management, except when there's Spanish guys in the club. They're like, fire up the Spanish. And I face discrimination, not from management, but from customers. Because a lot of customers either favor white dancers or they fetishize me because of my ethnicity.

And I actually find that white men are nicer to me than men of color. Hispanic men treat me horribly. I don't want to talk to them. As soon as they find out I'm the same ethnicity as them, they treat me like shit. And I think a lot of Asian American and black dancers have said the same thing to me,

that we genuinely feel like the men from our little marginalized pockets are like taking their anger out on us They're like coming to the club to like be angry with us. So I don't like speaking to Hispanic customers and management is always like go talk to those guys like fire up the Spanish and I'm like no But I'm the spicy Latina. Yeah, that is gross And I'm like I'm waiting for my like white Wall Street boy to come like Spend money on me and like be nice to me, which is really sad that that's how I feel But it is and I'm not black so I can't speak to this personally But I do think it's really important to stand up for all of the girls in the

community. Black dancers have it the worst, especially in New York City, and the discrimination from hiring is really bad. And it's crazy because customers, they don't care. They're looking for beautiful women. They want a wide variety. It's actually bad business for you to not hire a diversity of people. And part of the reason why this happens is because strippers are not employees. We are not W-2. We're 1099 independent contractors. And so we have no resources to complain against discrimination. And that's been a big back and forth between the community.

It's like, do we want to stay independent contractors? Do we want to be employees? Arguably now, nobody is protected from discrimination, whether you're an employee or independent. So, before we hit you with some final questions, we wanted to talk a little bit about something we touched on earlier, but it is the exit plan for strippers

leaving the entertainment industry. So in the nature of income in the adult entertainment industry, typically cash-based and unreported complicates financial planning for the future. Without proper financial management, many dancers find themselves without savings or investments, leaving them vulnerable when they can no longer perform.

Recognizing this issue, many ex-Exotic dancers have established programs to help other Exotic dancers with long-term financial planning. Stripper Financial Planning, what an interesting name, very innovative, was founded by Lindsay Swanson, a certified financial planner. The service was tailored to specifically strippers and adult entertainers.

It offered monthly coaching on budgeting, tax planning, and goal setting. As of 2021, stripper financial planning has ceased operations. However, Lindsay continues to provide comprehensive financial planning and investment management through Brio Financial Group, maintaining her focus on sex workers in the LGBTQ plus community. While financial planning initiatives like this have provided crucial guidance for dancers navigating their financial futures, systemic protections for sex workers remain rare. However, some countries are beginning to recognize the need for structural change. In December 2024, Belgium enacted a groundbreaking law granting sex workers

formal employment contracts, labor rights, and protections. This includes access to health insurance, paid leave, maternity benefits, unemployment support, and pensions, marking a significant step towards legitimizing sex work and providing financial security. First of all, America, we can learn so much from Belgium. Yeah, I guess like some questions for you. So we were talking about the lawlessness, right? And there are pros and cons to that. And that's also something that makes it culty

in good ways and bad ways. Do strippers, dancers communicate with one another about finances? And if so, how? Like, are people out here strategizing together about, like, how to manage their money and where they might go in their future after they're done stripping or not really? I think that has started to happen more so after the pandemic. Just because so many people are online and also with the OnlyFans boom, a lot of sex workers became also influencers and started selling courses and just educating people

online. And so I think now it's a little bit more normal for strippers to talk about finances, but you don't ask another stripper how much money she makes or how much money she has. And also it's a big facade. I mean, I know people who wear fur coats, head to toe plastic surgery, diamonds, golds, they look like they're wealthy, and actually they don't have a dollar to their name

because in stripper culture, you need to look good and you need to look really flashy. There's a lot of like posturing and then you find out, oh my God, this person has no money. They didn't save anything So it's hard to know. Yeah, I think that that is probably the case in like any industry where women are working We're in a labor market that was designed to benefit men and there's so much taboo surrounding money in general and especially in a space like strip clubs or even like independent

contractors and entertainment in general. I wish there was more transparency about what to do with our money so that people can like set themselves up for success in the future and really like do that American dream. But I don't know, maybe that's a culty fantasy. I guess our last question Luna is like, what is like a culty myth you think is most important to dispel about strip clubs? I think there's a very culty impression that we make a lot of money a lot of the time, and that's not true.

You might have a really good December, and then January, you're literally making like 20 to $40 a shift. That's an emotional roller coaster ride and it's addictive. Being a stripper is kind of like having a partner who's really hot and like really popular, but like low-key abusive. But you don't want to leave them because when it's good, it's good, but when it's bad, it's really bad.

And the money factor, it's just like we see these images of like dollar bills raining down on strippers going home with like bags of money That does happen sometimes. Yeah, and we all love it Some of my best memories are those moments, but there are really really bad moments The other thing I want to tell people is that there's this idea that like as soon as you turn 30 you get booted from The club that doesn't always happen. I know dancers in their 40s, and they're fucking killing it. Wisdom, you know, that wisdom. Luna, holy shit, thank you so much for being here

on Sounds Like a Call. If folks wanna keep up with you, and you'll work, where can they find you? You can find me on Instagram at Luna underscore Sophia, underscore Miranda, and that is Sophia Sophia spelled with F as in fabulous. So now let's get to our verdict. Chelsea, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out.

Which do you think the cult of strip clubs falls into? Live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of strip clubs falls into? Live your life. Oh! Whoa! Okay, unpack. I mean, obviously with any of these cult categories, there's gonna be some type of intersectionality. However, live your life because do you? I hate the idea of policing other people's life paths.

If you want to strip, if you want to be an exotic dancer, you should be able to live your life. However, comma, definitely watch your back. Okay? You know what I'm saying? Just, you know, like, in everyday life, you have to watch your back. So watch your back. But I'm just saying, like, I don't like to police what people have going on.

So live your life. Maybe it's like stripping. Live your life, obviously. Stripping live your life. Strip clubs. Watch your back. I think so. I think so.

Big difference. Yeah, you're right. But I do think there are some strip clubs that are live your life-ier, watch your back-ier, and get the fuck out-ier than others. You know, like take it club to club, like from what I witnessed at Jumbos, and feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but I witnessed more of like a live your life atmosphere

in that particular club, but I'm sure there are others that are not that way and everyone's experience is gonna be different. But yeah, this week on Sounds of the Cult, we're in service of destigmatizing sex work, peeling back the veil a little bit. And I don't want anyone calling this a cult for the wrong reasons.

I agree. Also, I just feel like in the spirit of us recording this during International Women's Month, I cannot see myself policing what a woman does with her body, or even judging for that matter, what a woman does with her body. So that's why I feel like it's a live your life. Totally, totally. The only watch your back element is like any weird like power dynamics or financial exploitation or false promises that happened on the part of the club owners and the like mostly male

like authority figures within these clubs. But yeah, really recording this episode has just made me wanna go to a strip club. I wanna use that money gun to tip the dancers of course. Yeah, feel free. Thank you so much. That's really generous. Well, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening.

Stick around for a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of The PodCabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell and Chelsea Charles. This episode was produced by Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cold.

If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the language of fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality and Wordslet, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network, Studio 71.

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