Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of The Bachelor

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

A heavily controlled, totally isolated group of polygamists who worship one charismatic figure and aren’t allowed to read magazines, watch TV, or speak to their families… is this a cult or the most popular reality dating show in history? This week on Sounds Like A Cult, we’re discussing the “cult” of The Bachelor Franchise with a very special guest, former contestant Kendall Long… and she did not hold back. We got the juicy inside scoop on how culty The Bachelor *really* is to try and figure out whether this objectively bizarre pop culture phenomenon is a Live Your Life, a Watch Your Back, or a Get the Fuck Out-level “cult.”

I think men create cults in order to have sex the way they want to have sex. That's the basis of a cult is sex. Sex, money and power, which, you know, the Bachelor. Yeah. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day. Cults we all follow. I'm Issa Medina, a comedian and documentarian. I'm Amanda Montell, an author and linguist.

This week's cult is the Bachelor franchise, and we're going to analyze the good, the bad and the culty to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? Okay, Issa, would you rather have to be cast on the next season of The Bachelor and sign up for all the commitments that that entails? Or spend two weeks as a practicing Scientologist? Ooh, that's a good question. I said this the other day and my roommate looked at me like I was crazy.

I've always said I kind of feel a pull to like either try heroin or try Scientology. But like I know I can't do either because like you're done for after the first try. But if in this would you rather situation I could actually just do Scientology for two weeks and come out clean, I think I would do Scientology over Bachelor. I think that says a lot about you and a lot about The Bachelor. Yeah. We're not so much here to talk about the fan cult of The Bachelor, though I think it's safe to say that Amanda and I are both casual Bachelor fans.

Right. So to start, Issa, what is the origin story of your Bachelor fandom? Well, I actually, I have friends who watched it religiously in high school and I always was like, this show is so stupid. Why would you watch it? But then in college, as we all know, I was in a sorority and a lot of girls watched The Bachelor and they were all talking shit about these people on TV who they didn't know. And I was like, that sounds kind of fun.

Yeah, that sounds very you. So I was like, okay, this is like a non harmful form of gossip, right? And I think obviously like don't go on Twitter and start shit talking them. We'll talk about that later because that's problematic, but it's fun to just shoot the shit with your roommates. I mean, I know from linguistics that gossip is just a solidarity forming practice to keep everyone in the circle updated on information to bond. I love how you phrase it that way.

Does that mean that like we've solidified our friendship? Yeah, our solidarity is strong. I mean, you just started watching The Bachelor this year during the COVID. Yeah. And it's not because I feel above trashy reality television, like I love me some dance moms. There was this reality dating show on MTV that I fucking binge watched last year because they had a queer season where everybody was sexually fluid. Oh my gosh, that reminds me, happy pride.

I literally had a dream on the night of Pride month Eve that I was selected to go on The Bachelor and I was so excited because I was going to become an influencer, but then I ended up falling in love with one of the girls who was also a contestant. Yeah. See, I would watch the absolute shit out of that. I am not above reality dating programs at all. It's just that The Bachelor always felt a basic like the drama was not interesting. I was like, okay, here are a bunch of LA influencers making up bullshit, which was the other problem.

It felt very insincere, but then in quarantine, I was finally like, okay, my most intellectual friends are gearing up to watch Claire slash Tayshia season. And I was like peer pressure. I guess I really have to start. I watched Tayshia season and I was like, wait a second, if this is what The Bachelor is, then sign me the hell up. I really feel like this is sort of just like cotton candy at the end of my day. As a viewer, I don't think it's a culty experience, but as a participant, I think it's definitely

one to discuss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to get into that for sure because I think there's a difference between the franchise itself and what it means to audition for and be cast on and be on The Bachelor and just, you know, watch it as a member of that sort of pop culture stand. Because this podcast is founded on the theory that cults fall on a spectrum and they're

not all equally dangerous. The Cult of the Bachelor might have its own spectrum and super fans fall on a different point than people who are like actually officially involved with the show. So how do we want to talk about it this week? Okay. How do we want to go about this? So I found this list of rules online on Cosmopolitan.com, it was this article listing Cosmopolitan.com. The internet, have you heard of it?

I found this list of 50 of the most intense, extreme behind the scenes rules that bachelor contestants have to follow and actually shout out one of my friends, Mara Bonner, wrote the article. Hey girl. We love you girl. So I was reading through this list and some of them are just sort of standard entertainment rules that you could expect being on any reality show. But some of them were like next level cultish.

And so I thought we could go through some of them and evaluate the stakes. I love evaluating the stakes. And I think the fact that these rules exist is really interesting in that there are so many of them because a classic cult red flag is to institute so many extremely specific, some very ridiculous and bizarre protocols, rituals that a person doesn't even have time to sit down and evaluate them all. They just have to like go, go, go, go, go, like sign the contract, follow the rules. It's kind of like a distraction and a means of exerting control over them.

Yeah. And the fact that it's such a well known show and everyone wants to be on it, they give you a piece of paper and they're like here, sign your life away. You're going to sign it because you're like, I want to be on the bachelor 100%. So the first rule that active members of the cult of the bachelor contestants on the show have to follow. This should be obvious, but when you see it all on paper, it's really disturbing. You're not allowed to communicate with the outside world at all.

Cell phone confiscated, can't read magazines, can't watch TV, obviously can't use social media. You can't listen to music and you can only watch movies approved by production on so-called blackout days when contestants are allowed to rest. You can't watch a movie. No, it's kind of like being in one flew over the cuckoo's nest. Like the evil nurses will agree on a film and then everybody can. I bet you they only let them watch like old school rom-coms, like the wedding planner

so that they get like in the mindset that they want to get married. Yeah, you're really right. I did see that the movie interstellar was approved. Oh, okay. I do love that movie. But it's just that isolation element, you know? Yeah, it kind of reminds me of incels when you're only talking. You love talking about incels.

It's because I just learned how to pronounce the word. I used to say in-souls. I love when I learn how to pronounce word and I'm saying wrong. But it's like when incels only talk to one type of person and they only further radicalize themselves. These girls are only talking to each other. They're further radicalizing themselves into feeling like they need to get married to this one man.

Yeah. Okay. Next rule, no one's allowed to eat the food. I actually heard about this because a girl in my sorority was on The Bachelor during Ari season. She was the one who was getting a PhD. They barely showed her even though she made it into like the top six. PhDs aren't sexy.

Exactly. And apparently they had like a really good relationship, but she was like, I want to move back to New York and like finish my PhD. And I don't think that's the path that he wanted. And she said that she was starving the whole time. Oh my God. Well, yeah, you have to like eat by yourself in your room first because nobody looks cute while they're eating on camera.

I feel like if they actually just ate, it would make the conversations on the one-on-ones just way more natural. More natural. Like you're on a real date. That's what I'm saying. Like with so many protocols, it's just so contrived. Yeah. Speaking of personality, you're forced to complete a 150 question personality test before

you go on The Bachelor, which is, I think, funny because that's also what they make you do at the Church of Scientology. Really? Yes. I have a story about how I was kidnapped by the Church of Scientology when I was 19. You can read about it in my book, but literally they reel you in by making you take a personality test. So the problem I find with personality tests is that they're multiple choice, right?

So like you usually have a couple personalities to choose from, right? So they just like make you think you have to fall into a certain category. And I feel like probably the girls who are auditioning for the show, they're thinking they need to be a certain type of woman the same way. Like you know when you write in a journal when you're a kid and you're writing in a way that makes you seem cool in case someone like reads your journal? Definitely. I feel like the girls are taking the personality test in a way that they think that the producers

will want them to look. It's like the fact of observing something changes that which is being observed. And when they're taking this personality test, they're not taking it by themselves to get them to know themselves better. They're taking it trying to like mold themselves to the Bachelor ideal. Yeah. Oh, here's my favorite one because cult language, gotta love it. You aren't allowed to say process, at least not when describing the literal plot of the

show. You show up, you go on dates, you get roses or you don't, you get kicked off, blah, blah. One of the bachelors told Glamour magazine that anytime you call the thing a process, they make you retape it and say journey instead. Oh. You know how they're always saying journey? Yeah. It's a journey, not a destination.

Well, this explains a lot because all of the Bachelor contestants and you see this especially during the after the final rose ceremonies, they all speak in the exact same very media trained, very vague dialect of like, I am a Bachelor contestant. I speak in these sort of new age platitudes. Yeah. And I feel like with the newer seasons, they want to seem more progressive and forward thinking. But I feel like even the language that they use that is quote unquote progressive is pre-approved. A hundred percent.

So there are a bunch of these that I'm just going to read through quickly. You have to forfeit the rights to your own wedding. You cannot skip any dates, even if you're feeling sick or whatever. And if you spoil the show, apparently you have to deal with a $5 million fine. Oh my gosh. That's so scary. I literally would like just go to an island because I would accidentally just be like talking to someone in a grocery store and spoil the whole thing.

We would both spill the beans. Yeah. We could not. No, we would not be eligible for this. That's frightening. Everyone contractually agrees to be humiliated. What? In the fine print of the show's eligibility requirements, it says, revelation of personal

information and recordings may be embarrassing, unfavorable, humiliating and or derogatory and or may portray him or her in a false light. That's the opposite of reality TV, technically, right? Yeah. It's like uncanny television. That's what they should call it. They definitely should. Also, I can't imagine myself signing something like that.

Okay. And here's the wild thing is that I don't want to watch someone be humiliated. In fact, whenever they do those group dates where like the women have to punch each other in the face, I fast forward through. I like can't bear it. And it also creates this false idea that the one that they're chasing after is Godlike special. Okay, here was really the most shocking thing to me out of everything.

Obviously, you have to agree as a part of bachelor franchise to do a shit ton of press. But what was shocking to me is how long you have to be attached to the show that you were on for a few months of your life in the year following the finale of your season. You have to be available to take part in interviews, photo shoots and chats for publicity. And you have to take part in any special episodes of the show, like the after the final rose or other reunions for three years, three years, do they get paid for that? I don't think so. Okay.

Okay. But this is, this is my theory. The bachelor itself is a cult like the institution, the franchise, whatever you call it. And then they're trying to create mini cult leaders with their own mini cult following this out of all of the contestants turned influencers. And they can't really steer away from non bachelor content because they'll lose their followers. And you can say, you can say like, wow, I don't feel bad for these influencers.

And of course, the stakes and consequences for bachelor nation or the bachelor franchise are going to be different, very different than someone in a get the fuck out level cult. Although I guess we'll get to that later. Yeah. And the thing that's cultiest to me is that it's something that presents as natural and normal and organic, but it's someone's real life, real relationship being entirely controlled by a higher power.

Up next, we're going to get an inside perspective on the cult of the bachelor from a special guest who was actually on the show, Kendall Long, who you may remember as the ukulele playing taxidermy collecting twin from our season. We caught up with Kendall to talk about all the cultiest parts of her bachelor experience for better or for worse. It was a lot of fun. Here's Kendall. Oh, and there's a couple of points where you might hear whimpering in the background.

That's Kendall's dog, pistachio, who was very concerned about a ball. Thanks for making time to talk to us. Yeah. Yeah, the idea of your podcast, it sounds really cool. Thank you. So Kendall, when we DM'd you on Instagram about this interview, you were like, LOL, this is funny because bachelor did seem like a cult in some ways. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about that.

What does feel like the cultiest part of the bachelor to you? Is it the fact that you're isolated? Is it the followers? Is it all the rules? Talk more about that. Like, as a former contestant. The first part that makes me think that bachelor feels like a cult, at least for all the people who are participating in it, is that the main bachelor or bachelorette is like the cult

leader. And then everybody envisions themselves with this one person, you know? Yeah. You almost forget that other men exist, at least when I was on it. And I think that can bring about like a lot of love, but you almost put that person on a pedestal, you know? And they're just like every other guy. And a cult is one of those things where you can't leave.

If you do leave, you're not part of the group anymore, or you're like ostracized in some sense. There's no, there's no contact with the outside world when you're filming at all. So yeah, I would say that's kind of how being on the show feels a little bit like a cult. Yeah, totally. We were kind of saying before that there's the cult of the bachelor, which is at the top, but then almost it's like the franchise is trying to force or encourage each of the contestants to create their own mini-cults with their own followers.

Yeah. It's like cultception. Because like I feel like today a lot of people go on to kind of like create that following on Instagram and things like that. Yeah. I mean, Instagram itself is kind of a series of mini-cults. I wasn't really that big on Instagram before, before all of this. I had a really weird obscure Instagram name in the beginning, and I didn't know that people

like used Instagram as a job, but it's cool to have a voice like that. I think especially since there's so many movements that are happening right now, people discovering their voice and like how they can place themselves with everything that's going on has been really, it's been a balance, it's been like difficult, but also I think it's important. For sure. It's not just like a blanket negative cult experience. Yes.

And there's positive aspects to being in a cult, you know? Speaking of that, what would you say was the most positive thing that happened to you because of The Bachelor, and what would you say was the most negative aspect of it in a culty sense? I mean, I feel like I liked being disconnected from the outside world. I liked having my phone taken away. Like when it came to Paradise, I was like, please take my phone. I don't want to even like think about having to do all that.

And some people would sneak in phones. They would try to sneak in phones. They'd inspect your bag. Like prison. Oh my gosh. No, it's so true. People would try to sneak in like different forms of technology, but I liked being detached from the outside world because then you feel like you have to trust yourself more because

you can't get other people's perspectives, you know, before you go through it yourself. And the most negative aspect is I think learning to be in a relationship outside of the cultish area of The Bachelor is difficult, you know, because you're used to falling in love in this world. Like it worked. I fell in love when I was on Bachelor. And then when you come out of it and if that relationship doesn't work, now you have to figure out how to make it work outside of that setting, which is a learning curve.

So a lot of people who join cults and then leave cults have, you know, effects that they deal with after in the long run. Do you think that having been on The Bachelor has affected the way you date today? Yeah, I would say that there's good and bad, good because I was never the kind of person that would, I never really talked about marriage or future or stuff like that. I just wasn't even on my mind before I went on The Bachelor. And when I went on the show, everyone was just like openly talking about marriage and what their wedding was going to look like and all this stuff.

And it was so foreign to me. And so I became more comfortable with expressing what I want and what I see in the future. And then also after going on the show, it is kind of difficult to date. I find a lot of guys are ashamed of watching the show or they don't want to admit that they've seen you. They love it. They love the show. Oh, completely.

My dad is the one that loves talking about Bachelor drama more than anybody. Yeah. I'll tell my dad some behind the scenes scuba like, you can't tell anyone. And he's like, of course not. No one loves The Bachelor more than dudes. We were talking about that earlier, especially in a relationship, like they'll be using their girlfriend as an excuse to watch and be like, oh, like my girlfriend, I mean, it's like almost eight.

It's like a permission structure for men to care about love or like rom-com content. Oh, so true. So true. My dad and brother always sneak in when we'd watch it when we were younger. But because of that, I feel like if I ever do go on a date with a guy, they'll usually not be as forthcoming with the fact that they've seen me make out and cry on TV before. They're like, oh, bad, like what? Bachelor?

But I've had people lie to me about knowing who I was before, which honestly, I just don't want people lying. If you genuinely haven't seen it, guys would react away. That's like, oh, genuinely curious. I've never seen it. But like, you'd tell me about it when a guy lies about it. They're usually like, oh, I don't watch that. Like I would never watch that.

Anyway, dating hasn't been so awful. It was just something that I had to kind of learn. Just don't date guys that are liars. That's all. Yeah, for sure. I'm sure if you were a more anxious person, you might feel more paranoid. But it sounds like you have a pretty healthy outlook. Yeah, you seem like super healthy.

I'm glad you're doing well. Eesa, the psychologist over here. Oh, sorry. I just have like a horrible anxiety. I had like one TikTok go viral and I was like, don't look at me. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Because then all of a sudden, I've never had their opinions.

They're like, I had a bunch of anxiety coming off the show, too. So one of those things where I would like go out and try to dance and then people would like sneakily try to film me dancing and I'm just like, I can't dance anymore. You know? Yeah. Okay. So we have one more question for you and then we're going to play a little game. Oh, yay.

Excited. Yeah. What would you say to someone who is in the scouting process in terms of it being culty or not culty? Like, would you be like, don't do this if you're ex type of person? I think I would say don't have like a, a mask or a facade when you go on because I think those are the people that end up being villains because it's really hard in a three month period.

I was on the show for three months filming. It's really difficult to like stay that person without cracking and breaking and feeling like you're being cornered. For me, the best thing was like, you know, it's not like the producers are going to force you to do anything that you don't want to do. You don't want to do something to say, no, it's like a friend giving you bad advice. If you don't want to do that, don't do it. No one forces you to do anything.

That's interesting. It's like, stay true to yourself. Don't crack under the pressure. And then it won't be a damaging cult. Exactly. Exactly. I think people tend to freak out when they lose control. Like I'm a very easygoing California girl.

When I was on there, I was like, where are we going tomorrow? Paris is sweet. I don't care. I don't know what we're not going to eat. We're not going to sleep. I think, you know, for a couple of hours, that's totally fine, but some people are on strict regimes. They're like, I need to work out every day.

I need to eat this. I need to do this. Those are the people that I'm cracking under pressure, you know, you're like, just surrender to the cult. It'll all be fine. Yeah. You know, in the bachelor world, your mind is your own worst enemy. Okay.

So now we're going to play a quick round of the game. It's a classic would you rather bachelor edition. Okay. Yeah. And I do have to give all props to Amanda. She wrote these and I was like, these are good. These are juicy. Feeling honest today.

So, you know, cause that's what we like to hear. Okay. Okay. So the first one is would you rather only be allowed to socialize and be friends with other bachelor nation contestants for the rest of your life, family excluded, or have to join a remote cult in the woods, not physically dangerous or anything and live there for six months. Oh, remote cult for sure.

Yeah. That's what I said. That would be so cool. You learn how to make your own food. You learn survival techniques. I gained so much more like, I don't really hang out with a lot of the bachelor people. I do stay in touch with a couple, but they're not like my core friend group. But yeah, if I didn't have to have sex with the cult leader, I can see how a cult would

be pretty attractive. Yeah. I love that for you. Okay. Okay, second question, would you rather have to film another season of bachelor in paradise, but in a 1000 square foot doomsday preppers bunker below ground or have to monogamously date an extreme doomsday prepper for three months, but you're allowed to live your normal free life, not in a bunker.

No, I do the bunker maybe. I don't know. Cause I feel like that would be mentally challenging, but then being forced to do that dates somebody, those extreme views. I feel like maybe my, I can see like my mind deteriorating, not that I'm against doomsday preppers. I think if you're going to prep, that's cool. Wait, you crack.

That's so funny. I always, I'm like, the other day I said something about bald people and I was like, nothing against bald people. No, I guess like, I don't know, dating someone, like you have to be really close to that person. Probably make me feel like there's zombies. I don't know. Make me be against my family and friends because they're having chips from the vaccine. Like I don't know something like that, but yeah, yeah.

That's a prudent, prudent answer. Yeah, I agree. I actually had originally gone with the opposite, but I think thinking it through, yeah, men can be toxic. Okay, would you rather have to dress every day of your life like you're going to a rose ceremony or never be allowed to wear makeup again in any of your TV appearances or on social media? Hmm.

I'll do no makeup maybe. I'm not wearing makeup now. You know, I don't only wear makeup that often, I'm like, would I be able to go hiking ever again, go swimming, you know, there's some activities. Yeah. She's too adventurous, like she really just needs to join a traditional remote rural cult in the woods. Yes.

Okay. Last would you rather question, would you rather have to go on another season of The Bachelor but get cast as the villain or wake up tomorrow and have your whole bachelor experience erased? You know, I would probably, I had great experience, would I still remember the experiences? Yeah, you would still remember them, but nobody else would. I'd be okay with erasing it. I feel like I learned a lot from being on the show and I've realized this kind of like

also with so much going on, there is like a sense of like pressure that you have to be a certain way, you have to express yourself in a certain way and that could be crippling in a lot of senses. Luckily, I have a really strong friend and family group, but if everyone was to forget about it, I think that would be great and I could just continue on with stuff without having to, I could just leave Instagram, like why am I, you know, yeah. I think the one thing that makes me feel like I wouldn't want to be a villain is because villains now, not so much, my season wasn't so bad, but a lot of people are getting death

threats. There's like a lot of cruelty, like bullying people that are on the show is huge. Even for me, where I wasn't necessarily a villain, I've had people be mean to me and my family and friends would try to defend me. And then I would have to get involved because I'd have to defend them. You know what I mean? So. Yeah, we talked about that with Stan culture.

We're going to do an episode. I'm curious about what you guys have to say about it. Anybody who has a significant following on Instagram, it's kind of like a microphone, you know, and I think a lot of people want like attention. They want their voice to be heard. It's hard not to feed into answering back to only negative comments because you're like, I need to defend my honor and there's a lot of people that I see reposting negative comments and reposting things that are pretty cruel, thinking that maybe their audience will help

fight that battle or they'll like shame them into not being mean. But I don't think that's necessarily the best way to go about it because it is giving that microphone to negativity, whereas like I try to share things that are positive. But also, you know, vulnerability gets addicting because you're self-deprecating and you talk that about yourself on social media. People will say really nice things to you, you know, if you end up saying like, oh, I'm great. Like I'm super confident.

I'm feeling good. Then people will be mean to you. We tend to like applaud or encourage people to like speak negatively of themselves and to share negative things. Yeah. That's so true. It's almost like what you were saying. Attention is the commodity and the easiest way to get attention is through negativity.

Like that's what people are attracted to for some reason. Yeah. I think that a lot of fans see themselves as like your friends. They know who you are. Like they see what you're doing every day and so I'm going to stick up for my friend, which I love. But again, it's just like, then you feel like you have to support other people who are trying to stick up for you because you don't want them to get bullied.

So yeah, it's an interesting cycle. Cool. Well, that's all we have. Thank you so much for doing this. What a fascinating discussion. Yeah. All the things. Yeah.

So where can listeners find you? I know we've been talking about this this whole time, but how would you like listeners to find you and how would you like them to engage with you? I would like to join Michael by Instagram is It's Kendall Long. I have a book called Just Curious. So that's kind of what I'm doing now. Well, we support people joining your cult because it seems like a safe space. Yeah.

Michael is cool. Everyone else's cult is not cool. So. Exactly. So what category do you think the bachelor falls under? Live your life. Watch your back or get the fuck out. It's funny because when we were going through all of the rules on that Cosmo list, I was

like, this show brings out the worst qualities in all of us Americans. We're just like watching these people be exploited and voyeuristically enjoying it. That's so fucked up. It's a get the fuck out level cult. I hate this. But now I'm like, look, two huge cult red flags for me are when a cult is super deceptive about what your membership is going to require. Like the lie to you, the love bomb you bait and switch you.

And then it makes it really hard to get out. But with the bachelor, they're pretty fricking transparent out of the gate about what the experience is going to be like for you. And then ultimately, like your contract does run out and you can get rid of your Instagram and go on your merry way. So just because I would never in a million years go on the bachelor doesn't mean I can judge it too harshly. Yeah.

That said, it doesn't come completely without risks. So I'm going to call it a watch your back level light. I was kind of on the same page as you for different reasons. I wanted to say get the fuck out because to me it felt like there were people pulling the strings on the back end, like the executives. But after speaking with Kendall, I realized that there is still a sense of autonomy. So if you go into the experience with a sense of ease, then you're not going to get pulled in.

And that's why I agree. It's like, it's a watch your back low carb. It's a low carb watch your back. Yeah. Yeah. Kendall really brought us back down the earth. Yeah. Thank you, Kendall.

Thanks, Kendall. We love you. That's our show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with a new cult next week. And in the meantime, stay culty, but not too culty. Songs like a cult was created, produced and edited by Amanda Montell and Issa Medina. Our theme music is by Casey Colb and our production assistant slash intern is Courtney

Archer. And if you liked this episode, feel free to give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts.