Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of The Royal Family

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Intense secrecy and exclusivity, unquestioned protocols and rituals, deception, isolation, hierarchies, and soooo much money… nope, we’re not talking about Satanism or Scientology, we’re talking about The Royal Family! ;) This week, with the help of brilliant British journalist Afua Adom, Isa and Amanda attempt to unpack the Meghan Markle interview and other windows in the centuries-old monarchy to determine how “culty” it really is.

This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Issa Medina, a comedian and documentarian, and I'm Amanda Montell, an author and linguist. This week's cult is The Royal Family, and we're going to analyze every culty corner of it to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? Issa, you don't particularly strike me as someone who's like obsessed with British royalty. Am I wrong about that? Yeah, no, I don't really care for them.

I never think about them. No, I don't think about the royal family either. But you do watch The Crown, don't you? I didn't choose to watch The Crown. The Crown chose me. It was kind of like a late quarantine decision that was made for me. I really just was out of content. I see.

It kept getting suggested to me, and I was like, all right. The algorithm is the ultimate cult leader. Yeah. That's what I always say. I, yeah, no, I literally never paid attention to the royal family at all. I just always thought that the royal family was like the British version of the Kardashians. Exactly. Make it old school, slap a crown on them.

Yeah, I think it's funny that you said the royal family is the British version of the Kardashians. I hate myself. It should be backwards. Everyone says that the Kardashians are like the royal version of Americans. Oh my God. Well, that just shows how US-centric my thinking is. But I mean, I know from my linguistics knowledge that Americans fetishize British culture

because we have mommy issues in the way that colonized countries tend to have for their motherland. Is that why? Is that why I think Spanish accents from Spain are sexy because I'm Colombian? 100%. It's like Spanish colonized. No, that is totally like a, it's a good analogy because a British accent is exotic, but not too exotic, too exotic in quotes, but also like it's the accent of our motherland and

we literally have mommy issues as like a colonized country, so that's why we think British accents are sexy. Well, I'll be talking about this in therapy. Sorry. No, no, I was just going to say like I totally did think that the royal family was just like another famous family until I watched the Meghan Markle interview with Oprah. And then I was like, oh, huh, this sounds like an interview with a cult survivor. Yeah.

So a little bit of background for those who did not catch the Meghan Markle interview. Where were you? What rock were you under? Essentially Prince Harry's wife, Meghan Markle, Duchess of Sussex, I think is her title. This was basically her tell all that aired on CBS talking about just the clusterfuck of an experience that she'd had as a member of the royal family for 18 months as an American coming into the situation and how the media was so incredibly vitriolic towards her and basically forced her to deal with some really dark mental health demons and posture of to

a point where she and Harry decided to leave the royal family for her mental health and for the health and safety of her children who are mixed race, which is not exactly accepted in the royal family, apparently, I watched it too. And my first thought was, of course, this is horrible, and I cannot imagine what she's going through. But my second thought was, OK, but you're kind of like a bajillionaire. You are in very rich circles and you're a famous actress. Like, why can't you just leave?

You know, you have resources and especially if her husband was supportive of her, which it seems he was, ultimately they did leave, but they did it in a very politically correct way, which they didn't have to do. Yeah. No, that is a completely fair point. I think when analyzing the cult of the royal family, we just have to accept a few realities that make it not on the same level as even the cult of SoulCycle or the cult of some new age Instagram guru, because first of all, the royal family is not that much of a public

threat seeing as like marrying a prince isn't an opportunity that very many people are going to get. Yeah. Oh, you're a princess. So it's like, you know, we don't need to be constantly looking over our shoulder scared that we're going to get inducted into the cult of the royal family. Oh, yeah. That's how you mean it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all over town, it's getting creepy. So I'm just like, okay, not all of us are particularly at risk of ending up in a Meghan Markle situation. And also like your cheekbones are not qualified for falling into the cult of becoming a princess. No, you're, I think you've lovely cheekbones. Oh, thank you.

You have better cheekbones. I haven't really thought about my cheekbones much, which I guess means that they're fine because if you're not insecure about it, then I've never thought about them until I watched this Meghan Markle interview was like, damn, girl, you got some nice cheekbones, the cult of cheekbones. But then like you were saying, you know, you cannot really compare, say like a bare bones compound in the woods, when you have like absolutely no family or money on the outside to shacking up in a literal palace.

But I do think you can have everything you physically need and still be in like a psychologically dangerous cult like situation. Yeah. I think it's important to also talk about, and I know you don't like to use this word because you think it's like not real, but the brainwashing. And when you saw how Meghan talked about it in the interview, she kind of got brainwashed to think that she had to be politically correct, you know, that's also her personality. She's always been someone who was like very poised, very, very poised.

And I don't think she like wanted to leave with any bad relationships. But then you could tell she was like battling with it because she wanted to leave. And she also felt like she couldn't because of the mental. Oh, for sure. There was like psychological pressures and cognitive dissonance up the wazoo. But to clarify, I don't regard brainwashing as some sort of slur. Like it's not like I hate the word. It's just that brainwashing is a metaphor.

And sometimes it's used to morally divide us, you know, because it's the pseudo scientific concept that gives people this armchair therapist eclat where they're like, oh, well, you're just brainwashed, you know, as a way to make them feel like they're superior and you're in a cult. Yeah, but it's not like, oh, your brain is swiped clean. It's not that you move on. But that's what people think happens. It's like you mind controlled minion, you're brainwashed.

But really what's going on are these methods of conditioning and coercion. And that's what we're really talking about. And they started conditioning her since she started dating Harry. Yeah, it is true that there are hella culty red flags when you look at the way that the monarchy behaves. And when you look at a cult, you see things like false promises, secrecy, deception. And in the Meghan Markle interview, she was saying all these things, first of all, like how they create this really sunny portrait of what life there is going to be like.

And then you get there and it ends up being the complete polar opposite. And so you feel deceived. And this, I think, speaks to the conditioning that probably a lot of British people undergo just growing up in the United Kingdom. Like, you're conditioned to think that the royal family is this sort of ideal. Yeah. And that is not me coming for British people, by the way. I mean, I probably don't even need to state that no one is under more cultish conditioning

than Americans, right? Like the whole thesis of this podcast is that all of us are under cunt, whoa, cunt. I mistype cult as cunt all the time, but I think this is the first time I've ever misspoken it. Anyway, the thesis of our podcast is that we are all under some degree of cult-like influence just because of the institutions and the affiliations that we're a part of that we take for granted. It just so happens to me that we're talking about something British this week. But I think when Megan sort of like infiltrated, the reason why the press came down on her

so hard was she was like- I was just about to say that. I think that the reason the press came down on her, and I think the reason the royal family didn't defend her when the press was after her, is because they wanted to diminish her independence, diminish her strength, and kind of- Mindfuck her. Mindfuck her into thinking you aren't as worthy as us, so you better listen to us. I think it was to prove a point.

You came in here not knowing how to curtsy. You came in here not caring about us as god-like, because that's what the crown is, right? They're like the descendants of God. Pretty much. And she just saw them as fellow celebrities, because like she said, she grew up in LA, and she was like, I'm famous, you're famous, let's all be friends. Yeah, that is such a good point. They probably felt threatened by her, honestly.

Yeah. They wouldn't come to her defense because they were like, she doesn't respect us. She doesn't like worship us the way that we need to be worshiped. And so in that way, they kind of wanted her to be humbled. But it totally backfired. Yeah, because she's a strong independent woman. Totally. They milked every bureaucratic trick available to them though, like to keep her in their

clutches, I just think they did so much to gaslight her and make her feel like any misery she felt as a part of the royal family was all in her head, and that they were doing everything that they could to help her when they really weren't, you know? Yeah. I thought of that when I heard Megan talk about the institution, because it's not this one person. It's not like the queen was a bitch to her alone or, which it sounds like she wasn't at all.

It sounds like it was this really nebulous other party that she wouldn't even name in the interview, basically like the whole climax of the interview where I guess there were a couple of them. One, she revealed that at one point the media was bullying her so hardcore that she started to develop suicidal ideation. And when she went to the institution, again, whatever that means, it's a person or a group of people I don't even know to try and seek mental health help, they wouldn't let her because of the way it would look, and she couldn't escape because they literally taken

her passport, her keys, her driver's license, and that was the cultiest part to meet because there was no exit strategy for her. After the break, we're going to hear from Afiya Adham, a London-based journalist who has extensively covered the royal family. She's going to give us a qualified perspective on what this fancy British cult is all about. I was at a town when we recorded the interview, so Amanda is going to take this one solo. So first, I would just love if you could introduce yourself to our listeners. Yes.

So my name is Afiya Adham, and I am a journalist, a broadcaster, and a guest, a royal commentator. And I'm based in London in the United Kingdom. Lovely. So, Issa and I were trying to figure out exactly who in the royal family makes the decisions, and it's oddly hard to find out. To the best of your ability, could you explain the internal structure of the royal family, how it's set up, and who in the whole organization actually has decision-making power? That's a really good question, and I wish I could explain the internal structure of

the royal family, but I don't even think the royal family could explain the internal structure of the royal family, and that's why it's called the farm. That's why it's referred to as the farm, because I think there is a lot of people who make decisions with the blood relatives of the royal family. I think there's a lot of handlers, you know, people that work in and around, you know, when Meghan Markle was interviewed by Oprah Winfrey, she talked about going to HR, and I remember thinking like, the royal family has a human resources department, that's mental to me.

We know that obviously the queen is the head of the family, is the chief decision maker. I think at the moment Prince Charles and Prince William have probably stepped up as well since the death of Prince Philip, but in terms of who's really, you know, in charge, who knows? Who knows? Right, so there's no one person at the top or some sort of power nucleus who has the ability to veto something, anything. Well, I mean, the queen is the queen, right? So she can veto absolutely anything if she really wants to, but if she really deems it

that important, and if she feels that it's something she really, you know, should get involved in, because she's involved in the state opening of parliament, she does have an audience with whichever prime minister is in charge, and the queen and the king before her have had that since the beginning of time, and that is something that will continue. But you know, she's more of a sounding board, she doesn't necessarily make political decisions or make decisions that can affect the country in that way. But if she wanted to, she could, you know, it's a kind of strange one that she is a figurehead that has all this power, but doesn't necessarily wield it all the time.

Yeah, that's interesting that you bring that up, because a lot of Americans, including me and Issa, and as it seems, Meghan Markle, when she first married into the family, grew up thinking of the royal family as basically just like the Kardashians, you know, like just another celebrity family, but clearly the vibe is far different, which I suppose makes a world of sense considering its history. You did this a bit, but I was wondering if you could expand on painting a picture of how much unquestioned power the monarchy has exactly, and like for what? Just upholding tradition.

I'm trying to get a sense of like how much power they wield as a firm. Yeah. Yeah. And so of course, the Commonwealth, you know, that's really a huge part of what the royal family is all about. The Commonwealth is not as big as it was, but back in the day, you know, the royal family were the figurehead of that in the way and helped rule so many countries, including Ghana, where my DNA is originally from.

So in terms of what the royal family does and what its role is at the moment, you know, there are massive tourist spots. People come to the UK to go to Buckingham Palace and to go to Windsor Castle and to go to Kensington Palace and see all these places where the royal family live. And in terms of power, I mean, they do a heck of a lot of charity work. Let's, you know, give them that credit, patronages of so many charities up and down the country and living this life of public service. That's what they talk about a lot.

And that is, you know, down to their charity work through this pandemic. We've seen a lot of Kate and William supporting NHS workers, healthcare workers. This is kind of the service that they do. It makes a lot of sense and it certainly seems like they do a lot of good for the world. I wonder how it feels to be, you know, born into it because it seems like the standards for their life have been set. It's hard to feel sad for someone born a royal, but I do empathize with the sort of lack of freedom maybe that comes with just so much public and internal responsibility.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's something that I can cry. I mean, I'm not born into the royal family, but, you know, I can understand how someone would feel that they don't necessarily have as much liberty as you and I would. You know, it's not like Prince Harry or Prince William is just going to pop down to the shop. So it's going to go out for a drink with his friends and if they do, you know, that's so widely photographed and all the rest of it. So I guess there was some error, I could see how that would bother you, but then, you know,

if you look at all the privilege that they're born into, it's fine. I don't know how much sympathy I have. It's a trade-off. Yeah, I don't know how much sympathy I have either. So you had mentioned this term, the firm, which I think after the Meghan Markle interview, everybody was like, the firm, the firm, what does she mean, the firm? The other sort of business-like, vague term that Meghan used was the institution. Do you have any insight on what the institution refers to?

So the institution is the royal family and all its interests and all its business and I think the institution, the firm are pretty much the same thing. So I believe, and nobody really knows apart from people within it, but I believe that the firm is made up of the royal family and then people like press secretaries, PR, courtiers, you know, ladies-in-waiting, all the people that are very close to the main Windsor family. Form this firm, form this institution, they are vaults tight, they keep the secrets, they know where all the bodies are buried and apparently they have an HR department. So yes, that is the firm, essentially, that encompasses the royal family and all their

secret keepers, security, people like that. Yeah, I just thought it was interesting how in the Oprah Winfrey interview, Meghan kept using the word institution as if it referred to like one person or a group of people and I was like, I wonder if she even knows? This is the thing is that I don't necessarily think she does know. I think there may be people within the firm that she doesn't know they're in the firm and then there may be people that she thinks are in the firm are not. You know, you don't know who has certain amounts of authority and who doesn't, you know, who

has power and who doesn't, who's holding onto your passport and who's not and then that's actually part of their appeal and part of how you keep up the secret because nobody really knows who and who. So it's kind of intentional to have these terms that everyone can use and the terms are specific but they don't actually mean anything specific. But they act the same. You're fine. Yeah, yeah, it's quite clever.

So as a member of the press, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the relationship between the royal family and the British press like I've read that the relationship is sort of symbiotic or parasitic if you choose to interpret it that way and that the press like needs the royal family but the royal family needs the press and I'm just curious what your perspective is and if you could shed some light on that relationship and do you have any noteworthy experiences of your own from your own career? Definitely the royal family needs the press and the press needs the royal family and there is certainly a lot of dealing going on to make sure that, you know, sometimes

the press write nice stories about the royal family and then therefore the press get invited to all these lovely events and holiday parties at Clarence House of Kensington Palace or wherever. The royal family are a little bit scared of the press. They are sometimes concerned about the stories that will come out especially in the tabloids rather than the broadsheets I think. But obviously the press know how much royal stories will sell pages. So yes, we need them as much as they need us but they're I think they're a bit more

scared of us than we are of them most certainly. And me personally, you know, I've met Prince Charles, I was invited to a reception honouring you know Commonwealth countries that was honouring Ghana and this was a couple of years ago, a few years ago actually and Prince Charles was like, oh I know you work for us and so and so, you know, please do make sure that you're nice to me and I really like your outfit and I was like, notice, I will let that down. Wow. Oh my gosh, so they're kind of like sucking up a little bit.

Of course. And I'll send you a picture of me and now it's like. Oh, please do, please do. Wow, that's pretty extraordinary. I wonder if, is the royal family like single-handedly upholding the tabloid business in the UK because the tabloid business is like all but dead in the US I feel. Yeah, I don't think they're single-handedly upholding it, I think they're startlingly doing a good job of fishing sales and you know, we still have celebrities and footballers

and all that salacious gossip but to be honest, you know, over the pandemic there hasn't been a lot of that and actually the things the tabloids are thinking about makes it Megan's miscarriage and they can get impregnated again and then, you know, the Oprah interview. So yes, definitely, you know, the tabloids have gone crazy with some days in that week, you know, when the interview was on this Sunday, I think it was the 8th of March and, you know, that week the tabloids, some of them did 20 pages, 20 pages in the front of the paper on Megan and Harry. I'm like, what more could you possibly print the entire transcript of the interview and

it wouldn't have been 20 pages, you know what I mean? Like how did we get here? I'd really like to know it. I totally forgot that when Megan stepped down, it was called Megsit LOL. Yes, it really was, wasn't it? Okay, so one last question and then we'll play a game. There are so many like rituals and rites and traditions and ceremonies that go on with the royal family, like the royal orders and the titles and the appearances and everything.

What do you think is the monarchy's cultiest ritual and what is it for? Ooh. Do you know what? I think the cultiest one is probably, you know, when they have a baby and they usually have a baby. I think it is at the Princess Grace Hospital and then whatever princess or whomever has given birth and they have to stand on the steps of the hospital was like, you know, the placenta still dripping down their leg with the fresh broodry and like, here's my baby.

What's that about? What is that about? That's horrible. Because I mean, I have a daughter, she's nine and I tell you what, I was not walking after I gave birth to that child. Never mind. Four hours later with a full blow dry and my nails done in a pretty blue dress. Hello, here's my child.

Oh my God. That is bizarre. Weird. And Megan was one of the first that was just like, it can never be me. I'm not doing it and she didn't do it and everyone, I mean the press lost their minds, lost their minds beforehand. Absolutely furious. It was like all the editors, mothers had been murdered on the same day.

I was like, you guys need to relax. It's not reasonable to expect a woman who's just given birth to stand in front of 50 photographers who are shouting her name. How was the birth? It was brilliant. What is that about? What makes sense? Oh, that's a perfect answer.

That's pretty good. Oh my goodness. All right. So now we're going to play a lighthearted game. It's called Coltty Quotes and it's essentially a game of who said that. So I'm going to read you a series of three quotes and you're going to have to guess whether or not the queen said it or a quote unquote cult leader. Okay.

So the first round is who said this Coltty Quote? Was it the queen or Gwyneth Paltrow? All right. The quote is, Brits are far more intelligent and civilized than Americans. Gwyneth Paltrow. You are correct. Yeah. That's so something she would say while trying to sell me a candle that smells like her vagina.

Nailed it. Nailed it. All right. This next round, who said this Coltty Quote? The queen or Charles Manson? Oh my God. The quote is, like all the best families, we have our share of eccentricities. Oh.

It's oddly hard. I think it looks Charles Manson. That was the queen. Oh no. That's all hard. Sorry, Queenie. It's hard out of context. For some reason, I can't imagine her saying eccentricities.

Like I can. I'm like, would she even say that? Would she acknowledge it? Well done. All done and acknowledged it. I mean, here's the thing about the internet is like, the internet says that she said this, but like who knows. Whether the farm will confirm or deny it.

Exactly. Okay. One last round, who said this Coltty Quote, the queen or Donald Trump? Oh my God. The quote is, when life seems hard, the courageous do not lie down and accept defeat. Instead, they are all the more determined to struggle for a better future. The queen. The queen.

You're right. Yes. Yes. Yes. You ended strong. Yes. Well, thank you so much for joining us on Sounds Like a Colt. If someone wants to keep up with you and your work, where can they find you?

Yeah, they can find me on Twitter or Instagram at a fear the Scott and I'll spell it for you. It's A F U A T H E S C O T. You can find me there. I love the way that British people say H H. I love it. I'm back, baby. So Amanda, what do we think about the royal family out of the three Colt categories?

Is it a live your life? Is it a watch your back or get the fuck out? This is a tricky one because the monarchy is so old that it's hard to see it objectively, you know, and this is all to say nothing of like the fanaticism of the followers on the outside itself, you know, the fans. We're just talking about the family. Yeah, the family. And I think that the fact that the followers on the outside are so fanatical can contribute

to so much of that damage and that bullying really says something about what the royal family itself is. It is like this incredibly powerful and sometimes destructive thing, but it could just be a toxic family. Yeah. No, toxic, powerful family. For sure. I want to say it's a watch your back, okay, because I do think that any small power abusive

group that doesn't allow you to push back or independently think or move through the world is automatically culty in a way I think can be troubling. So my my instinct is to say watch your back. Okay. Interesting answer and also very much affected my answer, not in the same way that you think, but also in the exact same way that you think and let me explain what that means. I originally wanted to say it don't think it's a cult at all. Oh, okay.

But as you were talking, I started thinking about all the employees of the royal family. Even though you're not part of the royal family, the royal family still has like a huge cult under it and they control a lot of people and they sign a lot of NDAs. And I'm wondering what if that should happen with Megan, who is a public facing figure. And what the fuck is happening with people on the inside? It's like some succession shit, you know, like who's being silenced. Also there are generations of families born into serving the royal family too. So that's like a whole other thing in that like, if you're the son of like their first

lady or something or whatever, yeah, then you have to become that when you grow up. Yeah, that is such a good point. Like the roots of this thing goes so deep. Yeah. And in that case, I would kind of say it's a get the fuck out. I literally went from like it's not a cult at all to it's a get the fuck out. Another fact supporting that is that anyone who has gotten the fuck out doesn't go back. They don't go back.

Completely exiled. That's so true. That is so true. And I'm pretty sure like if you really looked into it and did a deep dive, you would find some very sketchy stories of ex employees of the royal family because it's not just the direct bloodline. It's everyone that surrounds them that's in the cult. Stories that we'll never know.

We will never know. Yeah, so that's how that's how I went from zero to a hundred. Is there any princes out there who wanted to marry me or princesses? I'm no longer available. I do not. The answer is no. That is our show folks. Thanks for listening.

We'll be back with a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty, but not too culty sounds like a cult was created, produced and edited by Amanda Montell and Esa Medina. Our theme music is by Casey Colb and our production assistant slash intern is Courtney Archer. And if you like this episode, feel free to give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts.