Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Wall Street

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

Stocks? The economy?? Don't get us started! Look, any industry that allowed the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, aka Bernie Madoff, to literally *thrive* is an automatic sounds like a cult to us. Members willing to "sell their soul" to Wall Street in exchange for the American Dream enter a world ripe for corruption, deception, and exclusivity, and this week, ex-trader turned "finfluencer" Vivian Tu (aka, Your Rich BFF) joins Isa and Amanda to spill all the *insider trading* on what makes Wall Street such a cult. Be sure to check out Vivian's new podcast, Networth and Chill, dropping March 22nd! To support Sounds Like A Cult on Patreon, keep up with our live show dates, see Isa's live comedy, buy a copy of Amanda's book Cultish, or visit our website, click here! Thank you to our sponsors! Get 20% off your first order of $40 or more at NextEvo.com/podcast and use promo code cult. Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/CULT. Get 50% off your first DoorDash order up to a twenty-dollar value when you use code CULT at checkout.

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$20 value when you use code CULT at checkout limited time offer terms apply. That's 50% off up to $20 no-min subtotal and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app and enter the code CULT. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable facts. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Yeah, I fell down a cliff. You kind of seem like it. Yeah, I like I didn't mean to. That's good. I went into the freaking forest because I like to snowboard in the forest. It's something I'll never understand. Trees are fun to avoid and go around and then I just

got to this point where I was like, oh, this is kind of like a little steep lol. And then I took a picture because I was like, huh, looks cool. And then I like kept going and then I was like, oh, this is a rock. This is a cliff. I have to jump now. We have opposite fears. My biggest fear is falling down. Oh, no, I was scared. It just made me feel alive. Okay, I do understand that because Casey and I got into a hot air balloon accident. Yeah. And it felt so real. Yeah, because it was. It was so real. No, yeah, when you're like literally on a glacier with nowhere else to go and you could literally fall into like a pile of snow and no one will find you no matter having your iPhone on you or not. Like that shit gets real, real quick.

That's my actual biggest fear. You will never catch me skiing. Definitely not snowboarding. Do I look like a snowboarder to you? No, and you also do not look like a skier. Actually, you know that video I posted of that little kid in that ski outfit on my close friends. You look like a toddler who just put on a pair of ski shoes for the first time. Yes. It's like wobbling around. It's not dignified. And for that reason, I just like to be a little girl in the bathtub at the lodge drinking wine and that there's nothing wrong with that. I actually on Sunday skipped snowboarding and I went to this beautiful spa. I have to show it to you. No phones allowed. No talking allowed. Oh, that's hard for you,

podcaster. It is. But then it was really peaceful because they had hot plunges and cold plunges. That's my shit. And then a sauna and then like a sitting room. And they had multiple of all of them and I was hot and cold plunging my dick off. I love a hot cold plunge. You know me. I'm that infrared bitch these days. Yeah, dude, it was lit. But now I'm like talking slow because you're concussed ultimately. Yes. Actually, come to think of it, I would literally need to be concussed to go anywhere near this week's cult, the Cult of Wall Street. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Issa Medina and I'm a comedian touring all over the country. I'm Amanda Montell,

author of the book, Cultish the Language of Fanaticism. Every week on our show, we discuss a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist from celebrity mega churches to mom influencers to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? Oh, bro, it's tax season. That's why we're doing this topic. Scary, scary, scary. How are your 1099s? I don't know where they are. I feel like I got sent a couple and then everyone else was like, you don't need one because you have a company and I was like, what do you mean? Oh, okay. I wasn't incorporated until the end of the year. Oh, yeah. So I have a nice fat pile of 1099s. Yeah. So when you're like

inked up, you're LLC'd up. Yes, ma'am. You literally are just supposed to report your own income, which is crazy. The IRS loves you. Yeah, I had to track all the shows that I did just so that I could put them in there. Listen, death and taxes and cults, all the inevitable things in life. Oh, I got a bunch of influencer friends who made money for the first time this year. Oh, they about to get hit with the tax season. Yeah, that's reality, kids. Yeah. Oh, you thought you were rich. Welcome to the poor club. Even when you're rich, you're poor. Yeah, freelancer, artist vibes, for sure, for sure. Well, anyway, today we're talking about the cult of Wall Street, such a fucking cult. Yeah. How are you connected to this cult, if at all? Well, I went

to the University of Virginia, which is a classic university where like everyone thinks that they have to go into like consulting or Wall Street or banking, which I guess the two are kind of the same thing. And so they heavily recruit. I think the literal only reason I didn't get recruited to work on Wall Street is because of the job fairs were like on Saturday mornings. I was like, bitch, I'm sleeping in. Yeah. If there were job fairs at NYU, I didn't know where they were or anyone who went. I was like the classic person who like found out about the job fair after it happened. I was like, wait, you guys all went to the job fair without me? What the fuck? And that is why we are both unemployed. I mean, Wall Street is just not a cult that anyone I know

has ever joined or would join because I grew up around artists and academics, theater kids, and scientists, which are cults that we have already covered. But those cults are attractive to people who seek different things than the cult of Wall Street members seek. Like the people that I grew up around were motivated by like genius, like glory, fame. Yeah, I feel like the cult of Wall Street is a combination of people who seek ego and who seek the American dream in terms of like long term stability and money. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like I feel like crazy enough, it's either people who are like really middle class who seek Wall Street or already super duper rich and like happen to fall into it because like their parents were in Wall Street.

It just feels like it's such a far off thing for like people who are dealing with day to day costs to be like, Oh yeah, I want to hustle and grind for this fake bubble of a world and economy that we all live in. It also like it's just like the economy is like, what even is it? You know what I mean? Yeah, literally. I was talking about it with a friend this weekend because we were talking about every company has to grow for forever and it just keeps growing. And then if it stops growing, everyone's like, what's wrong? And it's like, everybody knows what Coca-Cola is. Everybody knows what Netflix is. Like you have market capped and you cannot go anywhere else. People are just mad. They can't keep growing. Don't get me started on the economy. Listen. No, but honestly, like

do less. That's the whole lesson. Yeah, it's like, can Coca-Cola just sit back and have a soda? Yeah, have a soda. Everybody is born with Coca-Cola up their ass crack. Like we know what it is. Yeah, but you're so right. Like the economy and stocks don't get us started. I feel like there are two ways of wrapping our heads around the cult of Wall Street. First of all, there is the cult like culture that exists on Wall Street for people who work there. This cult like industry is ripe for corruption and deception and exclusivity. It's this environment where people who grew up basically thinking that the American dream was theirs for the taking can sell their soul to Wall Street in exchange for the American dream. And then you're

recruited into this environment with extremely intense high pressure. There are insane egos, sleep deprivation, verbal abuse, but also like these glitzy client dinners and the finest hotels. And then there's the cult like effect that Wall Street has on the general public. Absolutely. Do you have any friends who've had culty experiences on Wall Street? Yeah, I had a friend who right out of college thought she was having a heart attack. So she went to the emergency room and wait, what? Yeah, I still send her memes about it to this day, but she was just having a panic attack at work because of the stress that she was under. She literally thought she was like gonna die. So she like Ubered herself to the hospital. What did the

hospital tell her? They were like, you're having a panic attack. Holy fuck. That is definitely, I mean, that is the stereotype of like a young trader in my mind. And they don't do anything. I mean, like this is a stereotype and not all stereotypes are true, but like everyone I know who works on Wall Street does cocaine. Yeah, they do so much coke and they party all weekend when they can. And then they work like 70 hour weeks when they're on the clock. But now they are so loaded. They're literally not even 30 yet and they like own houses. Yeah, but like at what cost? I agree. Because this is what's so fucked up and culty about it to me is like, Wall Street treats money not as a means to an end. Money is the end. Money is the purpose. Money is

everything to you, right? Everything to everyone. No, like to me, I don't want money for the sake of money. There's a point past which I don't care about money at all. It's like diminished marginal returns. Yeah, no, obviously, like you don't want money for the sake of money. I just think a lot of these people don't start off with money for the sake of money. I think they start off with money for the sake of security. And then when they start getting those promotions and they start making like seven figures, then that's when it's money for the sake. That's the cult of Wall Street. I think that's what the cult used to be. But I think now the danger is in the entry zone because you don't even always get to that next level anymore. I mean, there's your false promise.

Yeah. You know, in a way, Wall Street is cultier than it ever was because that dream is a lie. And you could just go work at fucking Google. Go work at fucking Google. Another cult. But at least you can wear leggings to work. Something that makes Wall Street a cult to me in addition to the culture of Wall Street trading in general is also how easy it is to bloat the hype around stocks such that you can like really manipulate the public and like fuck with people. Stocks are like mainstream crypto. They're just so based on hype. They really fuck with your perception of value. And I think that encourages a lot of Wall Street cult members, traders, etc. to be overconfident in the way that cult leaders are and take advantage of investors and the public,

the way that cult leaders do. Even though it's all based off this fake thing that the government can randomly just bail out, it's still real money and it has real consequences. And for the people who work on Wall Street, the consequences are becoming super duper rich. And the people who don't, the consequences are losing their 401k, losing their life savings. And so it's like, they have this invisible power that they make that then randomly turns real. Sounds like a cult. Yes. Actually, I came across a Bloomberg article in which I learned the term cult stocks. So cult stocks are actually really fascinating concept. And I do want to explain that for a

sec because of the power dynamics that they bring to the table. Cult stocks have always been around, but they came to the forefront during the pandemic because companies had stocks in other companies that they knew would plummet in value. So they started doing this thing where they would sell high because they knew that it was going to go low and then they would rebuy low. But then something really cool happened, which is that the public and regular people rallied around Reddit and threads and online internet forums, and they decided to buy those stocks out to prevent huge companies from making a profit off of other companies failing. So this was a really cool moment in history because it made it seem like the cult of Wall

Street wasn't run by these big companies and huge institutions. It was this idea that the public finally had agency. But at the end of the day, the apps that they were trading on, like Robinhood, ended up being frozen because the cult of Wall Street runs so deep that they were able to prevent these apps from allowing regular people to have autonomy. That is what's so scary about when a cult is actually a large mainstream institution because there's not going to be any higher, more structured, accountable, regulated authority figure to come down and fix the cultishness. Like the cult is the larger regulated authority. Yeah. And companies like Robinhood, whose whole MO is democratizing the stock market, the fact that they were able to

be controlled by higher powers so quickly is really scary. And now they're facing dozens of lawsuits over that freeze, but they still persevered. Wow. For me, it sounds like a cult because these really, really abstract currencies like stocks and crypto and actually like dollars and cents themselves don't have any inherent value. They only have value with everybody's buying in if everybody's like got the cult mentality. 100%. I don't know, dude. I just think any industry that allowed the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, aka Bernie Madoff, aka one of my favorite documentaries as of late, to thrive is a cult. Okay, we are not financial girlinas, but our guest is today we're going to be talking to Vivian

too. She is at your rich BFF on Instagram and she is a financial advisor for the girls. She used to be a trader and then she pieced the fuck out of the cult of Wall Street to become a boss bitch. Here's Vivian. Hi, everyone. My name is Vivian to aka your rich BFF and your favorite Wall Street girly. I am trying to make personal finance more accessible for the next generation. So I'm teaching things like budgeting, saving, investing and how to level up your career across social media. Okay. So synced intro. Wow. She's done this before. I know. Also, that's why I was like extra embarrassed that we were like delayed on starting because I was like,

you're a finance girly. You like are like, we hop on calls and we do the thing. And we are like literally surrounded in wires and I'm just like, I'm so sorry. I swear I used to be way more professional. No, no, no, no. Don't even worry about it. Little secret for you guys. I am launching my own podcast at the end of March and let me just say it's a lot harder than it looks. I have to learn how to use a lot of equipment. There were lots of technical difficulties and I'm definitely not nearly as I would say put together as I am when I feel like I'm in my comfort zone. Yeah, that is very generous of you. I'm like, I mean, I was like, that's very generous. And I was like, yes, I'll take it. Can you tell us more about your rich BFF? Like how did it start

and what are your goals for it now other than the podcast? Yeah. So it literally started as a complete accident. Like I mentioned, I started my career trading equities, aka stocks on Wall Street. And I did that for about two and a half years. And I kind of came to the realization that the industry was getting squeezed. So it was going to become harder and harder for me to make a ton of money. But I was working 80 hours a week. So it was quite a grind. And I just didn't see this illustrious career that I had envisioned happening for me. So I ended up leaving for the greener pastures of tech and media as all young people do because I was like, oh, I want to wear yoga pants to work. And when I got there, I made a lot of new friends. I met a lot of new colleagues

and everyone from the manager with two kids and a significant other who lived in the suburbs down to the 22 year old who didn't know anything from anything and had just graduated college were asking me the same questions, things like, can you rebalance my 401k? Can you help me pick a health insurance plan? What investments do you buy? What should I be doing? And it got to the point where it became so disruptive to my workday because we were in office at the time. I was like, you guys are so annoying. I'm just going to put this on social media. Ha ha. You can watch this online. Yeah. I never actually got around to it until the middle of the pandemic when I thought, you know, okay, well, I don't have anything better to do. I'm just going to start putting this content

on the internet. And my very first video, I basically said like, Hey, I've seen some really gnarly stuff going around the internet, which is frankly, just bad advice. And I don't have a get rich quick scheme, but I can teach you to be better with money. And overnight it went viral. That video ended up getting like 3 million views. And by the end of the first week, I had 100,000 followers and no idea what to do. That's crazy. People love money. I mean, I love money. I literally, there was one point during the pandemic where I was on like finance tiktok. And it's so oversaturated with men that I feel like seeing a woman give advice to is like so refreshing. And not even just men, it was like, I was also on finance tiktok. I am on finance tiktok, but like,

it was like 15 year old boys who live in their mom's basements and like had just gotten a brokerage account and like did not know how to drive. And I was just like, nothing about this makes you qualified to provide this information. You are literally gambling. And this is going to end poorly for the vast majority of people. It's giving Keith Reneary the MLM. He started before nexium. That is what it is reminding me of. I love how you dipped a toe in the cult of Wall Street. And then you like got out just in time to start your own more positive sect like the finance cult. Yeah. Well, also, it's good that you got out because it's not just being like squeezed where I feel like a lot of people aren't making like returns that they like were promised

or like if you break it up by hours worked, it's not like you're making that much money. But there also is like a culture of abuse and hazing that goes on. And yeah, I guess we kind of want to talk about that a little more. Can you tell us about your time working on Wall Street? Like what were the cultiest things you experienced and witnessed there? I would say when I started my career, I was super duper lucky. My first manager and mentors were I sat between two people, one of which I don't know if like they were just like, oh, we're just going to do a diversity two for me being an Asian person and also a woman. And like my mentor was also an Asian woman and we were the only two diversity people on the desk. And then my other manager was just

this really kind, thoughtful man. And I felt really grateful to be working for the two of them. I learned a lot. Everything was great, like cherry seed, great situation for me. Wait, what does that mean cherry seed? Just like you have like a great job, you have great prospects, people like you, everything is and you are like a good mentors. Yeah, I was very lucky. I had this great job, great seat. And then about a year, a year and a half in the head of my desk got let go, like the very head big boss got fired. And they brought in a new big boss. And that guy fired a bunch of people, a bunch of people quit. And he also hired a bunch of guys that he had brought over from a different bank. And suddenly this environment where I was hired into like, you

know, the team that hired me was the people I worked for and had really invested in me, really liked me, thought I was sharp, thought I was smart. Suddenly it felt like I was like that just like a dummy who like couldn't do anything right. And I ended up getting moved from my two managers and mentors to the new head of the desk, like best friend to work for him. And this was the beginning of the end, because I would say the way I was treated was so atrocious and unacceptable. But at the time, and still now I would say like, there's this culture of like, you're young, you earn your stripes, you cut your teeth, you just grin it and bear it. And this guy said so many horrible things to me, ranging from like, you're a fucking idiot, throwing like the

R slur word around to say that I was stupid. He told me that I was too girly for the job. He would take my work and like claim credit that he had done it. And like, frankly, like a lot of bosses do that. So like that was more just like par for the course. But it was just like a horrible work experience. And I was just like, you know what, like, I've got a tough skin, I'm a tough chick, I'm going to just tough it out like, you know, whatever. But one day I walked into the office, I had a long cardigan on, and he looked at me and he touched his hands together and he bowed and he goes, Oh, are you wearing a kimono? Oh, my fucking God. What do you possibly do with that? I can't even remember what I'd said in the moment. I frankly, I don't even think I said anything.

I was probably just too chicken shit to say anything. It's not your responsibility to say something. Yeah, like, I was like, what am I supposed to say to that? Like, thank you, like for that horrible comment. But I knew that was the end. Like that day, that was pivotal for me. I remember being like, this guy does not care about me. He's never going to be in the back room advocating for me pounding the table saying, she's smart. She deserves a raise. She should be promoted. He was never going to think about me like that. And to him, I was always going to be the Asian girl, like girl employee. I knew that he was never going to give me the respect or treatment that I deserved. And at that point, I was like, I have to get out of here.

Were you in a situation where they promised you a bonus if you stayed a certain period of time? Because I've heard that can be the case for a lot of first year employees. And so people choose to stay despite the abuse in order to make it to the bonus. So you get a bonus every year, banks do it on different cycles depending on where you're at. But typically you get your bonus like January, February in like some places, March. And if you're at like November, December, you know, if you quit before bonus season comes, you're not going to get paid that. So people do stick it out. For me, my like pivotal moment was probably I want to say like early spring. And I was like, Oh, I had just gotten my bonus, which was not what I'd want it to be. It was much

smaller than what I expected. And I was like, am I going to tough this out for another full calendar year to like get an extra what couple tens of thousands of dollars? Like it wasn't like crazy money. It's like your mental health and your well being at that point too. Yeah. And I was like, do I really want to do that? Or like, should I just go somewhere else and like make that money back? It wasn't worth it for me. I hear that. I want to talk a little bit about the culture that allowed someone like that boss who made that disgusting comment to you to exist. Like cults, you know, typically have these power dynamics, some of which are outward and some of which are unspoken. Could you explain the power structure of Wall Street? Who are the

cult leaders in your opinion and who else working on Wall Street has power? It's so messed up because in the same way, like with traditional cults, like you've got people who are in power who abuse the people below them and then the people below them, when they rise the ranks and become these people in power, they continue that like cycle of abuse. I think back in the day, the people who were my managers and mentors had suffered quite a bit of abuse, both verbal, emotional, like whatever, from their managers because everyone knew people were making insane amounts of money on Wall Street and you were like, if I can just mentally grind through this, I'm going to get paid. But like I mentioned, as the industry started contracting, it's become harder and harder for Wall Street to

perpetuate this culty behavior of, you know, senior people being underworked and overpaid and junior people being overworked and underpaid because they're not being paid. Like nobody's really making as much money as they used to. So suddenly when you're looking at your career prospects and you're like, I can sit here in the seat and be abused and be treated badly and not spoken to with respect and make X amount of money. Or there are now so many other careers, especially in the tech space. I'm like, I can wear jeans to work, show up at 10 a.m. and make just as much money. Literally my friends who like all work in tech are like actively skiing on the mountain. Like they are literally like on the list, like in a meeting. I'm like, and they get a $3,000

stipend for winter sports. I'm like, what? Which is not to say that the tech industry is not culty in its very own way. It certainly is. For sure. But I'm curious what about the transcendent promise of Wall Street or this sort of like deep rooted sense of purpose that has existed in the industry for so long keeps people in even when they could be treated better elsewhere or strike out on their own like you did. A lot of it has to do with ego. And I don't know how familiar you guys are with like the Wall Street meme space, but there are tons of accounts that are just dedicated to making jokes about working in finance, the grind, the slog, like we're all in it together. Ha ha. Like we're all trying to make money and like live this like yuppie life. And I think a lot

of it has to do with ego because, you know, it's much harder now to like work your way up from the mail room as you saw back in the 80s or 90s. Like most of the people getting these fancy Wall Street jobs are coming from feeder schools like the Ivy League, like, you know, top 10 universities. And when you go to a school like that, maybe you've taken on massive amounts of debt. Maybe your parents have paid for schooling and they put quite a bit of pressure on you to get like a good job. You've seen a lot of your friends and colleagues get these jobs and essentially make it. You think that by having this job too, you will get that respect, that self fulfillment that you thought was possible. I think the most exciting time to have been a Wall Street employee was when

I would go back to campus and tell people I was a Wall Street employee and they would like ooh and aw, I'd be like, wow, she's so cool. But then I would like go to my job and be like, wow, this is like absolutely terrible. And that is so culty for you to like go back and like recruit happily with a hat with a smile on your face and then go back to the reality of it knowing it's not what you're selling because you're also selling it to yourself. Yes, you're 100% selling it to yourself. And I think there are certain things that like are exciting, right? Like on Wall Street, you're taking clients out, you're entertaining. Like I got to go sit in the suite and like listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers play one night and like I was taken to a bunch of sports games and I've been

invited to dinners that were like literally thousands of dollars and we're eating this 51 ounce rib eye steak, whatever. Like I don't know, I don't really eat red food anymore, but you know. You're eating the flash of America. Literally. You were like, this is what our forefathers wanted. This is the American Dream and it's this big piece of ego because I think before Tech really rolled around, it was like going to work on Wall Street, wearing that fancy custom made three piece suit, carrying your briefcase, driving away in your luxury car and like having that life was how we deemed people who have made it. People looked up to people who worked in finance, worked on Wall Street. And it wasn't until like the Mark Zuckerberg days of like,

oh, hello, like I wear a t-shirt and a hoodie and I'm worth literally billions of dollars, that vibe actually became cool. Yeah, it's like not cool to wear a suit anymore. Three piece suit, I feel like that is kind of slick. No, it's for sure. But like to go to the Oscars in, but it's like, it's like now if you're going around Silicon Valley, it's like any dude with like a white t-shirt and like slip-ons could be a billionaire. It just, it really goes to show how arbitrary and how culty are impressions of what's cool and what's valuable and what's prestigious really are because overnight it can change from a three piece suit to flip-flops and board shorts. Yeah, I also think that with the ego, there's also like, I don't know from an

outsider's perspective and also I watch the show industry, LOL, do you watch the show? So yeah. But also I know that some of my friends who work in Wall Street like don't watch it because it's literally triggering to them. But yeah, it also, it feels like the finance industry is like surrounded in tradition too. I mean, like opening the stock market at the beginning of the day and like ringing the bell and like, it's called the sacred stock market. Yeah. And so it's like, there's all these little things that like people idolize. Was that part of the culture when you were there? You know, it's so funny that you say that like the ringing of the bell, like going to the floor of the actual stock exchange, like we don't actually work there. Like yeah, I would say

most of the time now Wall Street is actually just like a bunch of nerds behind computers to the point where like I literally had six monitors and like to see the person who sat across from me, like I would have to stand up. Like this culture of tradition definitely exists. I won't name names or anything, but like I'm like even embarrassed to tell you this. There was an annual dodgeball tournament and each bank would come up with a team and like all of the young people were forced to go because all of the senior guys on the desk were like, we have no desire to be pelted in the face with balls. It was like if you were young and you didn't go and like didn't rep the team, like and if you embarrassed the team, it was such a thing. So yes, there are these deeply rooted

traditions and almost expectations that you will participate. I also think people think of like working on Wall Street as like the actual day job. When the bell rings at four and your day ends and you're wrapping up, that's typically not the end of the year day. I was told especially as a young woman, you never say no to a client event. And yeah, this is gonna sound bad. And I think it's still probably the case across many banks is that like if you are a young woman, the expectation is that you'll even go to more events than like your young male counterparts because it's such an opportunity to network. And they're like, Oh, well, we want a girl there. So you should feel lucky that you got invited. And so there was a point at which I was like, going out for client events

two to three nights a week. And I wasn't getting paid for that. Like that was not in office. And it's hard because it makes you almost like recede from your actual personal life because I've been out two to three nights during the week. I'm exhausted. I don't want to go out for Thursday, Friday or Saturday night with my friends. I just want to sit in my bed and like watch Netflix. So I think there are definitely traditions that people follow and it does deeply impact your overall life. Yeah. And it sounds very culty. What you're describing is like you're isolating yourself from your support group, from your friends, and you're surrounding yourself just by people within the cult. And like you said, it's like those are hours worked like networking for

the job that you have and having to go to that event. That's an hour worked. And so that like reduces like the amount of pay that you're getting essentially by the hour because you have to go. And then I mean, I don't know if this was the case for you, but you said you got to like, you know, expense a lot of dinners. But I know my friend's sister, I don't know if this is just like at the bank that she works at. But like right now she's just starting her first year and she's having to go to all of these events. And her brother said that she has to pay out of pocket for a lot of them. And maybe that's like something has changed or like the economy's not doing so well right now. I like don't know anything. I'm like the economy bad right now

out of pocket. Happening. And so that's even cultier to me because I'm like she has to like invest in these events. Well, it's just such cult manipulation to create all this pomp and circumstance, exploit your members and then coerce them to be grateful for the abuse. You know, it's like, it's the you're so lucky to be here attitude that exists in so many sort of quote, unquote, glamorous cult like industries where it's like there are a million people who would be happy to take your place tomorrow. And for that reason, you better get down on your knees and be grateful that you even get to be here during this. And you guys mentioned something that I thought was like really interesting. You were like, Oh, like you like recede from your friends and you

only are hanging out with other people in the cult. That is so especially true in dating. When you work on Wall Street, it is so hard to date people outside of Wall Street, because my working hours, I would get into the office at 545 in the morning. So I did not want to be dating someone who was like, Oh, let's go to dinner at eight because I had to be in bed by 915 if I wanted to have any semblance of like sleep. And so I found dating other people on Wall Street made the most sense because even if they were, you know, bankers and like had a different schedule than me, if I had to like back out at the last minute, they wouldn't get mad at me. Whereas like, I certainly wanted to date people in less aggressive industries. But if I

flaked too many times or I had something come up or a work event come up, they wouldn't understand why I felt so stressed and why I didn't feel like I could say no to that event. And you're like, because I'm in a cold. Yeah. That's so funny. You could definitely not date a comedian, which makes me a little sad because like when I was in New York, there were a lot of like hot finance girls on the apps. And I was like, how cool would it be if I dated like a finance boss queen? But now I'm like, we would not have our schedules with dark. They would be opposite. Well, and you know, like that loss of identity and that loss of time and that sense of being forced to only hang out with an only date with people who are also members of this cult. Just as you think of

like actual cult compounds, I mean, the moonies would have like giant blessing ceremonies where like everyone in the cult would get married to someone that the cult leader chose for them all at the same time. You might as well have had that in finance. It's like, get the exec to pair everyone up and engage in a mass wedding ceremony. It's just ridiculous. I would go on these dates and I feel like, you know, a lot of my friends were guys just out of default because there weren't that many other girls like on the team. And I'd be like, oh, I went on a date and they'd be like, oh, like what bank do they work at? I'd be like, why is that the expectation? But like also, this is the bank they work at. So like, yeah, right. There are a lot of CBD brands out there,

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dash app in the app store and enter code Colt. Don't forget that's code Colt for 50% off your first order with door dash. Do you think that people in finance end up marrying other people in finance or do you think it was like a phase or a part of when you were just starting out? No, 100%. I would say it's it's a little bit of a 50 50 split. I think like if you're single when you start your job on Wall Street you'll likely end up marrying someone who also works in the industry. Alternatively, I would say they're certainly from my managers had people who like ended up marrying their high school sweethearts who have like nothing to do with the finance industry and typically it was like if you did that your partner was a stay at home parent.

I was just gonna say like there's no way that their wives are like boss bitches. I was literally gonna say it's like probably a partner who's just like a yes man. Like it's like they understand because they're like oh they are gonna be the breadwinner and I'm gonna be okay with them not coming home on time or things like that because they're making oh my god. All the things that partner can mean these days I'm like what a partner at the firm? Like a romantic partner. A romantic partner. So who would you say are the quote unquote followers of the Wall Street Colt and how do they get recruited? What type of person do you think is attracted to the Colt of Wall Street in your opinion? I would say the followers are high achieving college students because

they want the glitz and glamour that Wall Street offers. They're recruited through on-campus recruiting through networking events. I mean I went to the University of Chicago which is a I would say I think it's like a top three school in America and every single bank would come to our career services like day and set up a booth and be like you want to work here and you would learn about the bank and the jobs that you could do there and all of that and they make it so easy to like have that be like almost like your default job choice. That said I do think the Colt of Wall Street is funny because it's not a very effective one in that most members of the Colt end up leaving after two years. Why do you think that is? So in banking in particularly I was on the trading

side of the house which more people stay in for longer periods of time. That sounds so cool trading side of the house I'm like I want to join the Colt of Wall Street. I know this is like so captivated by it. I hear her talk about your finance friends you're like yeah it's fucked up but I want it. It's like a kink. Yeah like with like the banking side of the house like people will work in the banking industry for like two two and a half years and then it's kind of like known that like these young people will typically interview to go into other realms of finance that are not just like banks but like it's still Wall Street. They're going to like private equity funds or like you know venture capital firms and I think typically they do that because it offers them a better work

life balance and they're able to make more money but I would just say that like a lot of people who join the industry don't stay forever. Some people are lifers certainly but the Colt is becoming less and less effective over time because people are just getting paid less. Yeah and the cost of living is so high and they don't provide you a compound to live on like the Manson so yeah you have to pay for it yourself. Is there shame associated with defecting from the Colt? Like do people within the Colt think of defectors as less than in any way? 100%. When I left Wall Street to go work in tech and media I went to Buzzfeed and I had a really really lovely three almost four years there but when I left there were certainly people

were like wow this idiot like can't believe she's giving that up and those people included my parents. I got into possibly the biggest fight that I've ever gotten into with my parents when I decided to leave Wall Street because they had really helped me pay for school and the expectation was like you know like I was like the valedictorian of my high school so like I was a big nerd and like the expectation was always like American dream you go to a good school you get a fancy job you end up with like yeah two and a half kids golden retriever white picket fence house and when I left Wall Street they were like you are giving up the American dream you are giving up this dream you made it you know how many people would have like killed to be in your position to

have that see blah blah blah and I was so scared that I was making the wrong decision and I'm sure like even people I worked with including other young people were like ooh this girl's making a big all mistake and it wasn't until I started having such a better life making a lot more money that people were like oh maybe that was the right call. And it's very sad to me that it always comes down to money honestly it wasn't until you literally had more happiness in your day-to-day life that they were like oh I'm glad you made the red decision for you but I mean even like us pursuing like having a podcast like my dad was like do not quit your job because I was like this is so much work like and we were at the point where I was like I think like I could start making a living off of

this but it wasn't a guarantee yet I was like if I want to put my all in this like I have to quit my job I can't be spread too thin and my dad was like don't quit your job blah blah blah and I just like you just have to ignore the haters. Well for sure and also it this really connects to my dad is the hater actually. Yeah yeah but I call it a hater at home we all need a hater at home keep us humble. I mean this really connects to why like the multi-level marketing industry so often goes after immigrant communities because the American Dream itself is a cult and it can be really appealing to people who you know have like so far up to go you know like it's that optimism. How do you think the cult of Wall Street affects the general public? I mean I think just like the way that it's portrayed

in popular media it's twofold. One I think on one hand we hate Wall Street right like obviously there was like the Occupy Wall Street movement and you've seen movies like Wolf of Wall Street or this recent documentary that I was watching about like Bernie Madoff and I'm like how could you not hate these guys they're literally doing terrible things and like ripping off grandma's and like teachers pension funds. On the other hand I do think we like almost idolize this community. We think they're smarter than us we think they're better than us just because they have more money and after meeting so many people on Wall Street I can tell you like the vast majority of people are just regulation regular people. They just have a specific job and I do think it does

impact regular people who are outside of the cults to almost feel like they can't get in. Like it's like an exclusive club you can't get into when in reality like as someone who literally worked there like it was not all sunshine and daisies like people are still in their 50s working a 12 hour day. Who wants that? I don't know if this is because it is like majority male dominated but like it does give off that like they are so confident people who work on Wall Street have to be confident because they literally are convincing like their clients to make these decisions and that is their job is to advise confidently and so as an outsider we're tricked into that idea that they are painting for themselves that they're like overconfident

where in like I know for a fact like some of my friends like can't sleep at night because they're like did I make the right decision? Yeah no that's such a good point like the whole job is based on a big overconfident bluff and like I can't think of a quality more common in classic cult leaders than someone who can just pull off an overconfident bluff. We used to joke about how nobody actually knew anything and we were all just regurgitating the smartest like the market research teams like information we would like read his morning note and then like call our clients and like just read the note to them and pretend like we were smart when in reality there was only one guy doing the actual research and yeah it's very funny that you

say that because I do think a big portion of the career is being able to communicate effectively being thoughtful when speaking but there were multiple times that like my boss would be like hey I'm running to a meeting like you need to call this client and like tell them what's up and I'm like I do and literally would just kind of be like you know nut up and like call them and I'd have to pick up the phone and pretend like I knew exactly what I was talking about and sometimes they asked me a follow-up question I'd be like I gotta call you back and I didn't know the answer and I'd have to go dig for the answer and then I call them back so it is a lot of bluffing it has a lot to do with like trying to convince everyone else that you're the smartest

person in the room yeah scary that is like door-to-door salesman energy yeah but on such a massive high-stakes scale and and also like how could it not be in some way romantic to the average American when like fake it till you make it is literally considered a wise proverb in this culture like we're all in a way told by the cultural ethos like pretend just pretend and eventually like you look at that up to yourself yeah okay so we touched a little bit on this already but can you talk about some of the pressures to fit in and conform to the wall street cult as a new recruit I think it's mostly just like being cool enough to keep up there were many many nights where you would go out for drinks and you would have to make sure that you could like hang you

couldn't be the first person who went home but you also couldn't be the drunken girl at the party like it's just this very fine line of like being cool enough and drinking a lot but not too much and like just doing enough to be like considered like a fun person how much were you sleeping during this time of your life I would say probably like six hours a night but like I also prioritize sleep so like there were nights that I would get into bed at nine and fall asleep and wake up and have like a fully rested eight hour night of sleep but let me tell you waking up in the pitch black of winter and going to the office before the sun rises and leaving the office once the sun had already set like I must have had like the most horrible vitamin D deficiency it's hard it never

gets easier waking up in in the dark yeah the toll on your body and your psyche mind body as they say it just sounds unhealthy I literally would get fired in one week like I literally cannot get up before the sun is out like when I was like a little kid in Columbia it like gets really dark like in the winter I mean it's probably like in New York and like when I was like five my mom would have to like dress me asleep while I was still in bed like that's what that reminds me of like I think I would like had to hire a task rabbit like get me up and it's not like a surgeon getting up early to perform like a life-saving medical procedure it is a traitor who's been convinced by the cult that their work is life or death when all that's at stake is money I actually had a

physical alarm clock not just the alarm clock that goes beep beep beep like it came with like a little dome plate thing and it like physically would shake until I turned it off because that's what it would take to get me up and now that I work for myself I have gone full the opposite direction I'm like my wake-up time is like 8 45 9 like you're not getting me up before then because yeah I'm actually pretty naturally like a night owl like I love staying up late it's so fun for me and now that I don't have to wake up early I don't dude I am convinced that sleep deprivation is the silent killer and like one of the cultiest red flags because like in this culture sleep deprivation is something you wear like a badge of honor it's like no wonder we're like not okay

not me though that's like ultimately why I would never actually be swept up by a cult is because I'd be like bitch I need my sleep I'm tired I literally would be like wake me up when September ends I know I can't even get through an episode of The Last of Us I'm asleep on that couch like my eyes open like that meme of the alien like I'm awake I promise yeah I cannot believe you can't get through that that's like literally my favorite show right now no I'm actually kidding I can get through that one he's obsessed with it yeah no I can't get through that one I like keep making fungus metaphors in my everyday life because it's like really in my brain I like it I finally have gotten into it now I'm like okay I'm invested in the characters like I'll watch another episode

but I am obsessed with the show industry I love that yeah no because also obviously it's talking about the finance industry but I feel like the finance industry and Hollywood assistants have so much in common like they start off in the mail room too but the difference is like right off the bat at least people in finance are making like a baseline six figures like Hollywood assistants are literally making $35,000 a year okay speaking of the wide scope of cults we want to play a little game with you we always play a game with our guest on sounds like a cult this is a classic one it's called culty quotes so we're gonna read you a sequence of quotes each one is either going to have been stated by a wall street executive or a classic notorious cult leader from history

and you're gonna have to guess was this a wall street exec or a cult leader this is gonna be way too fun okay quote number one it goes you don't always need to know the answers but you must trust that you'll always have the answers when you need them that's a cult leader yeah and you made it sound like it I'm sorry sorry I gave it away I gave it away I gave it away the delivery is everything it really is it is the latest everything yet that was yogi bhajan who was the leader of a kundalini yoga cult called the happy healthy holy organization yeah well do we have to say alleged or no okay okay next quote if you've got a bazooka and people know you've got it you may not have to take it out that was a wall street exec yeah former ceo of golden sacks sorry I wrote

gunna sacks I was like gunna sacks golden sacks Henry poulsen that's a scary quote though never heard of that man in my life yeah I think it's giving like speak softly and carry a big stick vibes yes yes yeah he probably like sat down at his desk and was like this is an amazing thing to set oh my god meanwhile like I feel like Isa talks loudly and carries a small stick yeah I scream I scream and my cane is like a barbie sized cane yeah he's just like a chihuahua a lot of bark there not too much like really like three pounds yeah exactly but like chihuahuas can be really scary they can like like but most of the time we're just shaking with nerves okay all right here's the next quote you know a long time ago being crazy meant something is this a wall street

exec no it was Charles Manson good job on the delivery Amanda thank you thank you I made it more casual that time but I could totally see like someone on wall street oh absolutely it's just my default delivery is a little bit cult leadery which I think yeah yeah okay next quote I'm a little bit of an eternal optimist oh this is so hard because I can think of like so many CEOs on wall street who would like say this but I'm also I feel like this could easily be something like you say when you're like about to like murder your entire sect but I'm gonna murder your entire sect or like lay off everybody that's like yeah literally yes that is the mass suicide of wall street this is a cult leader right no it's the CEO of chase bank which is ironic it's like

you're an optimist that you're gonna make millions of dollars yeah everyone's gonna die for okay his name is Jamie jaymond diamond diamond yeah yeah you know you know I know okay the next quote never underestimate the gullibility of large pools of money we can't forget that cult leaders are very very into money as well yeah not as much as wall street well depending on your no probably more because they're like give me all of your money join my cult and like take off your clothes so like I can yeah you know what actually you know what I think this is a wall street exact correct you're correct that's David Swenson the chief investment officer at Yale last quote my idea of heaven is what we've got right now right here cult leader yeah I wasn't gonna answer because I was like

I forgot who David Berg was David Berg the the leader of the children of God which was a sex cult oh good it sounds like wall street you know can be kind of like a boring sex cult how are wall street guys in bed yeah honestly you know I would say they span the gamut but it's it's always the quiet ones that end up being freaky I could see that I love a big stick love a quiet finance yeah like it's always like the ones with like glasses and you're like what I do I mean I've had good and bad experiences I've been over and underwhelmed that's very diplomatic Vivian thank you so much for joining us on this episode of sounds like a cult this was juicy this was fun if folks want to keep up with you and your work where can they find you first and foremost they can find me

across social media as your rich bff but if they love the podcast space they love listening in we are launching my podcast tomorrow it's called net worth and chill I'm getting up close and personal about you know the good the bad the ugly on how money is going to impact all of our lives and listen I've listened to other business podcasts super boring I promise that will not be the case we're going to cover financial topics as they actually relate to our everyday lives and I wanted to really feel like a conversation with your best friend so each episode will break down a complicated economic or business concept into easy to understand terms and we're gonna have some expert guests some professionals some famous faces and we're gonna give actionable tips and advice

on how to make the most of your money so if you guys are interested please grab a drink and check out net worth and chill yeah I love that I'm gonna listen yeah I am gonna listen to it maybe we can help grow our wealth that sounds like a cult LLC yeah right now it is literally I get paid in cash for shows it is only like ten dollars for comedy and stuff like that but I'm like I throw it into like a drawer I'm like there it goes gotta manage those tens please we need to get you a high yield savings account I know it's on my list but first I have to pay taxes this year yeah well thanks so much for coming on the podcast we loved having you it was a really fun conversation and super insightful of course thank you so much for having me okay isa out of these three cult categories

live your life watch your back and get the fuck out what do you think about the cult of wall street I think the cult of wall street is a get the fuck out I think it's stupid and everyone should just give me their money and I can handle it from there okay Bernie Madoff I think the cult of wall street is so yesterday as Hilary Duff once said I think it's passe I think it sucks money is trash unless it's in my pocket yeah I hate it but that's not why it's to get the fuck out I think it's super damaging for everyone involved yeah I think it just has like a lot of long-term effects on people's mental health who join it and who work in it and then even when you finally get that

like prize that you so deeply desire which is like wealth it's not enough because there's always more and what's your next goal millionaire billionaire now you want to like fucking go to Mars it's like okay who are you Elon Musk yeah no honestly it is like a void filling thing the way that cults are I think we should go back to the barter system yeah I also think it's like extremely predatory because it kind of reminds me of law where like finances don't need to be that complicated just the same way that like contracts don't need to be that complicated but these things are are institutionally made complicated so that normal people don't succeed in them and then they create jobs around continuing to keep it complicated yeah the us versus them energy in

this cult is some of the most extreme that we've seen and to a point that Vivian made the people who work on Wall Street aren't even that fucking smart dude nobody is smart everybody is dumb that just like literally is like the thesis of my life everyone is dumb including you including me whoa I mean everyone should humble themselves yeah nobody's better than you and you are no better than anybody that is our show thanks so much for listening we'll be back with a new cult next week but in the meantime stay culty but not too culty sounds like a cult was created hosted and produced by Issa Medina and Amanda Montell our theme music is by Casey Colt this episode was edited and mixed by Jordan more of the

pod cabin to join our cult follow us on instagram at sounds like a cult pod I'm on instagram at Amanda underscore Montell and feel free to check out my books cultish the language of fanaticism and word slut a feminist guide to taking back the English language and I'm on instagram at Issa Medina ISAA M-D-I-N-A-A where you can find tickets to my live stand-up comedy shows or tell me where to perform we also have a patreon and we would appreciate your support there at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult and if you'd like our show feel free to give us a rating on Spotify or Apple podcasts and if you don't like our show rate other podcasts the way you'd rate us