Speaking of Psychology - Parenting Through the Pandemic with Erlanger Turner, PhD

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

As we enter month No. 3 of living under the COVID-19 lockdown, parents and their kids may be getting on each other’s nerves. Parents working from home may be battling with their children – and each other - for computer access. As youngsters try to finish their school year via remote learning, they may be upset that there will be no summer camp this year, and certainly no big out-of-town vacation. Dr. Earl Turner, an expert on child psychology, offers more tips for coping, keeping families safe and handling the relentless drumbeat of coronavirus news. Join us online August 6-8 for APA 2020 Virtual. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we embark on the third month of living under COVID-19 lockdown, parents and their kids may be getting on each other's nerves. If you're a parent working from home, you might be battling with your children and or your spouse for computer access. As your youngsters are trying to finish their school year via remote learning, maybe you're feeling stressed that there will be no summer camp this year and certainly no big out-of-town vacation. And if you're an essential worker, the fear of getting infected or infecting your family members has to be a constant. burden. Are there any new tips or tricks for coping? What about sharing space with other families, which is catching on in some areas? Is this advisable? And how can you keep your family safe, even as your children are seeing news stories about some Americans demanding to be, quote, freed from sheltering in place or wearing masks? Welcome to Speaking of Psychology, the flagship

podcast of the American Psychological Association. I'm Kim Mills. Our guest today, is Dr. Earl Turner, a licensed clinical psychologist and assistant professor of psychology at Pepperdine University. Dr. Turner teaches courses on clinical psychology and multicultural issues. He is also an authority on child psychology and is president of the Society for Child and Family Policy and and Practice, which is a division of the American Psychological Association. Thanks for joining us, Dr. Turner. Thank you for having me. Let's start by talking about the fatigue that families must be feeling after sheltering in place for more than two months. As you're out talking and writing about families in COVID-19, what are you hearing about new pressures that are building up in some households?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the challenges is that, you know, everybody obviously is sheltered in place, and so it makes it much more difficult for you to be able to find space to be alone. And so I think that is a unique challenge that we are not accustomed to, given the current situation. So I think trying to figure out ways to make space for each other to be able to get a break is something that a lot of families are really struggling right now. What advice do you have for parents who live in states or communities that are starting to open up? How can they protect themselves and their families, but also convince their kids that

practices such as sheltering in place, wearing masks in public and staying six feet apart are not necessarily over? Yeah, I think that's very important to make sure that you continue to talk with your kids about this is still uncertain times in that we don't know a lot about how this virus is being spread. Obviously, we don't have a vaccine of cure yet for it. And so I think talking with children about, you know, we have to try to expand our ability to get outside of the home, but in a safe manner. And so that includes making sure that we continue to maintain physical distancing. that we wear our mask, that we continue to wash our hands, that we use sanitizer and all of those things as a way to continue to protect us and also limit the possibility that we may get infected

with the virus. Is there some way to communicate with kids about these things without getting them stressed? Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, obviously we don't know much about the virus and how it spreads. So I think it's important to make sure that you. continue to communicate to kids about how necessary it is to maintain physical distancing, even when you're out in public, and that you also continue to, you know, wear your face coverings and that you also continue to engage in hand washing to limit the possibility that you

may contract the virus. Some countries, such as Canada and New Zealand, have introduced something that they're calling the double bubble where two families joined together. This allows their kids to play face to face and maybe the parents divide teaching responsibilities and they all share meals and basically they're allowed to socialize more. Do you think this is a good idea? Are we ready for this? That's a hard question for me. I think on one level we know that personal connection and relationships are important and obviously doing that in person is much easier than virtual meetings. And so I think I understand the perspective of the benefits of that. I think my concerns, would be sort of knowing how the virus is spread and, you know, are those, both of those families,

have they been, you know, tested what sort of possibilities of them getting contact with individuals who may have been infected and they don't know? And so I think, you know, that's a difficult conversation to be able to go along those guidelines, but not really understanding what impact it might have in terms of like potential exposure. So it may not be outweighed by the benefits of being able to socialize with more people? Right. I just, I just, I personally don't think that it's quite as safe to sort of move along those lines yet when we don't really know, because we know that people can be infected and not have symptoms. And so I would be concerned about that. The issues facing families where a parent is a first responder or a frontline worker are quite different from families.

where parents are teleworkers. And I've read some news stories about some parents who are spraying themselves all over with disinfectant before they go back into their house or they're living in separate quarters. How can parents manage the anxiety of children who are witnessing this behavior? Yeah, I think, you know, for most kids, if you are really open with them about the reason behind engaging in these behaviors, that it reduces some of their anxiety. And so I think for some parents, particularly those that you mentioned, there may be essential workers and have to leave the home, is that it may be difficult to sort of describe your reasoning behind that, or you may decide not to sort of have a lengthy conversation with kids about why you're doing that. So I think to reduce their anxiety, it's helpful to talk about why you're doing this, what the plan is for when you do return home so that, you know, you don't have kids rushing to, maybe hug you when you walk in the door so that way you can have an opportunity to disinfect and,

you know, change clothes and those types of things. So I think having a plan and creating some of that structure really is helpful to reduce some of the anxiety for kids. Children of all ages are picking up on the fact that many people are dying from this coronavirus. How can parents manage their kids' fears as they are exposed to this daily drumbeat of a death count? Yeah, I think, you know, for me, as someone who talks with parents often about kids witnessing things that could potentially be traumatic, is that you do want to limit the amount of exposure to watching these things in the media or if it's an adolescent, having some, you know, monitoring of their access to social media where they may be inadvertently exposed to some of this information, is that that may be one way to sort of help with that. The other way is really when if you are connected to someone who maybe dies from COVID-19 is that you sort of talk with kids about, you know, their emotions and feelings around that. Obviously, people experience grief differently.

And so for kids, it might be difficult to understand if they are having a emotional reaction to that loss. And so I think talking with them might be one way to at least explore and understand, you know, what emotions they may be having related to some of those situations. A moment ago you talked about the possibility that a family might have experienced a death and about talking to children about it. Is there a danger if you try to suppress that if you keep it a secret from a child that maybe, you know, grandma died? Yeah.

I mean, I think, you know, one of the big difficulties about grief is that families sometimes struggle about how much. much information should they give a child around, you know, a death of a loved one. And so I think it's helpful to talk about that grief, but also celebrate the life of that person. And I think that can be one way to make sure that they have a healthy grieving process. So I think it's important to have some conversations around it. A recently published study out of China found that children confined at home by the lockdown have elevated rates of depression and anxiety. which is raising concerns about the risk for American kids as the pandemic sweeps our nation. And I'm just wondering, what are the signs of depression and anxiety in children that parents should be looking for?

Yeah, that's a great question. Obviously, we will have to continue to collect some data on outcomes associated with children that may be isolated due to state-at-home orders during the pandemic. But I think in terms of the anxiety that if kids begin to become more clingy, so, you know, constantly wanting to be around parents and not sort of having them out of sight, that might be something that might be sort of a warning sign about additional concerns. Also, if they are having difficulties, you know, sleeping, whether that's falling asleep at night or maintaining their sleep throughout the night, that might be also an additional concern around anxiety because what, happens is that because they're worried, you know, their brain is constantly thinking about those things. And so it's hard to sort of turn that off. And so because of that, they may have challenges with sleeping. And then in terms of the depression aspect, I think children may begin to, you know, talk about things of death or dying or, you know, being hopeless about things never getting better.

and if you notice some of those signs, it may be important to reach out to a mental health professional. Does it help in any way for parents to try to make games out of some of what's going on? I think it's important to keep them entertained. And I'm not sure exactly how, you know, beneficiary it might be to make a game about coronavirus, specifically or COVID-19. But I think in terms of helping them navigate, you know, this stress. period, that that might be helpful. It may be part of the activity may be around identifying things around steps to sort of keep yourself safe and that might be helpful as a strategy to increase safety planning.

I guess I was thinking more about singing while you wash your hands or just any kind of a ritual that you might have around getting your masks on or something silly like that. Yes, no, no, I think that's great. I think especially for younger kids because it helps them sort of remember steps and things like that. And obviously with the hand washing, for example, you know, we've talked about this sort of length of time that is appropriate to wash your hands. And so if the song sort of fits that time frame, then that also helps, you know, get kids engaged in that activity. So I do think that that is a great way to help them to maintain some of those things to help them be safe. So I know you do a lot of work looking at multicultural families.

Could you talk a little bit about how the COVID-19 pandemic is affecting them specifically? What are the challenges that they face? Yeah, I think one of the challenges is that maybe is not talked about as much in the media is about multi-generational families. And so if you have families that include grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., that may be in the same home, that makes it much more. difficult when we think about some of the guidelines around physical distancing and things like that.

And obviously, if people may have to leave the home for work, et cetera, then those may be additional challenges because it may make it much more difficult to sort of maintain some of those things in terms of, you know, exposure that people may have been in contact with. So I think that's a definite concern that may be an issue for those families. And obviously, when we talk about older adults who may also be at a much higher risk, if you have those individuals in the home that could potentially increase some anxiety for kids for fear about, you know, their grandmother or grandfather being impacted by COVID-19. We talked a moment ago about maybe limiting some of the screen time that kids get right now,

particularly watching the news media. And I know there's research-based advice suggesting that parents should do what they call in psychology scaffolding their children's screen used by watching TV and playing online games with them to help them understand what they're seeing on screen. Can you explain a little more about how that works? Yeah, no, I think that's really helpful. And I think, you know, one of the things about the screen time aspect of it is that there is some physical aspects to it in terms of how it could put additional strain on. the body and so that might be of a concern. And then I also think about, you know, some of the limitations around physical activity. And so for kids that may not be as active and then they're constantly in front of a screen,

then that might lead to some other sorts of health concerns as well. So I think using the process where you are using different types of screens and limiting access, that might be really helpful in terms of kids and making sure that they are. engaged in that they are, you know, if it's learning activities that they may be involved in, that there's a mix of those, in addition to some things that may be, you know, more enjoyable like games that they're playing as well. So if a parent decides that their child is having issues that parent him or herself can't handle, how should they go about getting help? Yeah, I mean, there are a number of ways that parents can get help right now. One, many

organizations or psychological associations may be offering some either reduce services, reduce fee services to families, or they may be providing no-cost services to families as well. So I think one step might be to look at your state psychological association on their website to see if they are offering any services to families. If you have health insurance that covers mental health services, obviously you can reach out to your insurance provider to look into what access is available to you that's in your network. So that's another possibility. And then I think there are resources from different organizations like APA that offer some quick guides about how to manage certain strategies in terms of, anxiety and depression and some behavioral challenges as well. So I think those resources from,

you know, well-known, reputable websites might also be helpful in sort of the short term. For parents of older kids who are missing out on big milestones like graduation and prom, what are some things that parents can do to help them work their way through this? It always seems like a huge thing when you're 17. I know that, you know, that it's not in the scheme of life, but when you're 17, it is the biggest thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think those milestones oftentimes set the stage for sort of major transitions in life. And so when we are in this sort of pandemic in that those milestones can be celebrated,

it can definitely be devastating, you know, to teenagers specifically. And so I think, you know, trying to do what you can at home to be able to to celebrate that achievement for them is really helpful as one aspect. And then I think, you know, trying to get their perspective and opinion as well about how they would like to maybe make the best out of the situation. So what would be helpful for them, I think, is another important aspect of it so that it's not just about you as a parent and thinking, you know, what's most important for them to sort of celebrate this milestone, but how would they like to celebrate it?

And so I think that is also a very helpful aspect of that. And then I know that I've seen on social media as well as television where some schools are doing like drive-by graduations and celebration so the teachers and the principals will get in their cars and drive through the neighborhood for the kids. And so I think that's really beneficial. you at least one way to be able to sort of promote that achievement for them. What do you think will happen when shelter-in-place orders do really end around the country? Do you think that COVID-19 is going to lead to some permanent changes in our families?

I think so. I think that, you know, we've talked about this idea about, you know, is this the new normal, for example, or are things going to, you know, get back to, you know, where they were before COVID-19, and I think that it's going to change the way that we live, at least for a couple of years, if not forever, because I think that obviously, because we don't have a cure or vaccine for the virus, that we're going to have to continue to maintain some level of physical distancing for a while, even though we are not still sheltered in place. we're also going to have to make sure that we continue to do things in terms of how we engage from a school environment. I was watching something recently about, you know, school districts trying to make decisions around what school is going to look like, you know, once summer is over.

And so I think that is probably going to change for most children and that they may not maybe the class sizes may be much smaller. or maybe there's shorter days in the school week. And so that's going to impact parents. And what happens with their work days? Are they going to have enough flexibility to be able to be at home if their child's school day is cut short? So I think there are going to be a lot of challenges that we're going to have to continue to navigate and figure out. Yeah, these are really confusing times. Yes.

Some people are warning that we may experience a kind of mental health pandemic as a result of the coronavirus pandemic. And at a minimum, we should probably expect to see an increase in post-traumatic stress disorder, especially among those frontline workers and the first responders and also people have lost their jobs. How can psychology help mitigate these impacts? Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of conversations have been around psychological first date, for a couple of years. And so I think that's one way that psychology can be helpful to at least reduce the risk that may be associated with mental health challenges post. Yeah, can you explain what that means, psychological first aid?

Yes. So psychological first aid is a concept that I believe originally developed around sort of response to national disasters and what can we do to help those people cope. with those situations such as maybe hurricanes or things like that. And so when we apply that to situations such as the pandemic is really providing resources about what are some ways to one recognize signs of increased psychological distress or anxiety or depression, and then what are some strategies or tips about how to cope with those situations in the moment? And so I think sort of applying psychological first state to COVID-19 and the pandemic is that we really do need to be mindful about getting out resources to people now about what are some early warning signs of, you know, your body letting you know that something needs to happen and be different.

And so I think from the sort of anxiety perspective, we need to recognize that, you know, if we start to feel muscle tension, tension, if we start to feel like, you know, we're having breathing difficulties in a situation because we are stressed and worried that that may be one of the signs that, okay, you need to take a break now and, you know, take a break from, you know, having too many Zoom meetings back to back or take a break from, you know, for a child, being able to sit and maybe do some sort of academic work and then give yourself some time to sort of calm down and sort of recenter yourself. And so I think those are some strategies that might be helpful to mitigate the risk of mental health challenges post dealing with some of the restrictions around COVID-19.

Are you feeling anything hopeful or positive coming out of this whole situation? I'm going to think, you know, one of the things that has been sort of discussed recently about how COVID-19 is really changing. Everyone is that despite the challenges and difficulties that we are doing, dealing with right now that people are still being able to be fairly productive and life has been able to sort of continue on some levels. And so I think this has shown us as a society that, you know, there have been a lot of things in terms of like, you know, a typical 40-hour work week that we're not necessarily doing right now. And people are still being able to be productive.

And so I think some conversations that I saw recently on the news around some organizations may be allowing their employees to decide if they want to continue to work virtually as opposed to return to the office once the restrictions are lifted. And so I think in that sense, it has shown us that, you know, we can be resilient as individuals and as a society, despite, you know, know, the challenges associated with COVID-19. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Turner. I think those insights were very helpful. I hope our listeners appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for having me. The American Psychological Association has many resources and tipsheets available on our website

for help in navigating the pandemic, including special resources for families and caregivers. Visit us at APA.org. You can also find previous episodes of Speaking of Psychology on our website at Speaking of Psychology.org. And you can subscribe to our podcast on Apple, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, please give us a rating. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, email us at speaking of psychology at APA.org. That's speaking of psychology, all one word, at APA.org. Thank you for listening for the American Psychological Association. I'm Kim Mills.