Speaking of Psychology - Understanding climate change (SOP9)

Episode Date: April 7, 2014

As the discussion over how to address climate change heats up this Earth Day, we’re taking a look at how people understand the risks of climate change and how they adapt. We talk with two psychologists in this episode about how psychological research can contribute to an understanding of global climate change. Psychology professor Janet Swim, PhD, and conservation psychologist John Fraser, PhD, discuss the psychology of communication, politics and behavior as well as how psychologists can encourage others to become more engaged in the environment. APA is currently seeking proposals for APA 2020, click here to learn more https://convention.apa.org/proposals Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the discussion over how to address climate change heats up this Earth Day, we're taking a look at how people understand the risks of climate change and how they adapt. In this episode, we talk with two psychologists who study everything from communication to behavior change and discuss how psychological research can contribute to an understanding of global climate change. I'm Andre Hamilton, and this is speaking of psychology. Janet Swim is a professor of psychology at the Pennsylvania State University. She chaired the American Psychological Association Task Force on psychological perspectives on climate change. She is currently examining how people's beliefs about climate change are influenced by others,

as well as how to encourage people to support pro-environmental behaviors. Also with us is John Fraser. He is a conservation psychologist, architect, and educator, serving as president and CEO for the New York Think Tank New Knowledge Organization. His current research focuses on how social relationships and social relationships and media influence how people choose to engage in solving big social problems like climate change mitigation, resolving health disparities, or creating positive opportunities for youth to become their best selves. They are working together with the National Network for Ocean and Climate Change Interpretation, which has the goal of training educators on how to effectively communicate climate change information.

Welcome Dr. Swim and Dr. Fraser. Thank you. Thanks very much. First and foremost, this is the most basic question, but how is psychology contributing to the discussion about climate change? Well, I would say that there are probably two major ways that psychology is contributing. One way is that a lot of psychologists look into behavioral change, and so there are issues about getting individuals to change everyday behaviors, and individuals to engage in civic action contacting their political officials and things like that.

The other is a broader perspective and bringing in issues of environmental justice and thinking about the ways that climate change affect people, minority groups, the people in vulnerable parts of the world, both in the United States actually and across the planet. I think there's been a lot of conversation about how people understand the facts of climate change, but very little about how we process it in our minds. And that is really going to be key to any kind of future change, and that's where psychologists can be really useful. Are people's behaviors changing when it comes to taking steps to help prevent climate change,

such as being more energy, conscious, recycling? Yeah, I think they have changed. It's a slow movement. It's not going to happen all at once, but you can see things across the country. And even at our universities, there are lots more committees being formed and task force and trying to change institutions that way. So I think we actually are seeing a lot of change in the United States. I think it's such a big question about what you can.

can do that when people think at small levels like turning off lights or recycling, they're really not systemically organizing it in their minds about how can they deal with the biggest problem, because it's pretty overwhelming when we start to think about the scale of climate change and what our little actions are going to be. But these collective actions are really starting to show. Why do some people reject the notion of climate change occurring at all? Is there some sort of psychological reasoning behind this? Well, I definitely think there is some psychological reasoning behind it. I think there's two conversations there. in that question that I think it's important to unpack. The first is that there aren't that many

people who really deny climate change. It's about 5% of our country doesn't think it's possible. There are a lot of people who are questioning whether climate change or what the mechanisms are, but it's not denial. That's a kind of propaganda story. I mean, 8% of America thinks Elvis is still alive. So it's not really a fact that people don't get it. It's understanding how it works. So we're arguing over facts that everyone agrees on. What the real issue is, is that how do people understand climate change in their lives and practically how they can relate to the topic? I also say that part of the issues that people are not talking about climate change either.

And so there's a part of the message when people think the other people are not believing in climate change, then they think that they don't want to be the ones to say something, but actually a lot of people do. And so they need to just start talking about it with each other and start very. figuring out what it means for them and what they can do, what they can't do, what they're feeling like they're able to do. I mean, that's really the heart of our research, is how do we get people engaged in a conversation and something that is proactively imagining themselves in the solution instead of pretending no one believes it, and there we just don't talk about it so we don't know where to go. And it has been politicized.

That's probably the biggest problem, is it facts have been politicized. and one of the things that the National Network for Ocean Climate Change interpretation is trying to do is take the politics away and get it back to practical action. And how can psychologists inform policy discussions in this area? One of the biggest roles for psychologists is really how do we talk about what is possible, what is our potential future. When we think about policy, I mean, I'll tell you, our research is funded by the National Science Foundation. We are not involved in policy discussions in our research.

But when I think as an individual about policy, one of the things psychologists can certainly do is help people understand what they can be as a political actor, someone who is advocating for positive change that's going to make the world a better place. That's my individual opinion, not the project, though. I'd also say that there's a thing that psychologists can do is to help policy makers understand what people are thinking and feeling about climate change and be part of the communication to tell policy makers. that people are concerned about this, and to be that voice, to make them realize that there's that concern. A lot of policy focuses on things that are economic and structure, but we get concerned about issues of justice, because there are people who are going to lose just because of where they live, how they live, or where they are in the economic spectrum. And one of the things that we know from the general population is most people really care

and want people to be protected. They want to live in a peaceful society. They don't want conflict. And so if we continue to talk about economics and not about the justice for people who are front-line living in places that are going to be threatened, like people who live in Micronesia, then we really aren't being good people. So I think we can get engaged in those kind of policy decisions. How can psychologists improve communication about the very real impacts of climate change and what people can do to help address the threat? You know, it's an interesting question.

Our research started long before Janet and I were collaborating. I was working for a conservation organization, the Wildlife Conservation Society in New York City, and we found that in our meetings there was a very elevated sense of concern, almost what looked like panic in some conversations. That started a project that eventually got sewed into the project we're working on today. We were looking at the emotional experience of knowing the problem. And climate change is really a threatening issue. People see the world around them, changing and leaving them, and that is emotionally. distressing when you know the facts. When you can see the evidence, it is distressing. And when you

think people around you don't believe you, you self-edit because the emotional labor that goes into doing that work is difficult. So what we find is that people who know the facts, who understand what's necessary, who are working in frontline conservation jobs, who are working as educators, are emotionally distressed and avoiding the emotional labor of getting involved in the work. what we're trying to do is help these folks to see that there is a possible future, there is a possible narrative. And I think this is a real job across the many different kinds of psychology, from positive psychology to consumer psychology to justice, to peace. All of these topics deal with emotionally difficult work. And I think we need to focus on the worker's personal life

and experience as part of that story, not just about telling the story, but what does it mean to be a storyteller? I was doing that research, Janet Swim was working for the APA's task force on how to psychology address climate change, and I realized that she had some information that I didn't know. And so I called Janet and said, I would love to collaborate with you on this question, because I don't know how to deal with this issue of emotional stress. That's an interesting perspective, because I felt like I was there doing research on emotional issues about climate change, and I was looking for a place to do that research. So I thought I had contact you.

and you to figure out if this would seem like a great place to do that research. But the research that I was interested in, one of the emotions I was interested in is hope. And so hope is basically transforming fear into a positive experience in a sense that you have a sense that you know what you can do. You need basic fear to start with in a sense of why you want to be concerned about this and what you want to, you know, facing the future. but when you can start thinking about your ability to do something, having a plan of action, not necessarily a big plan of action, but have a plan for how you can talk to people, then you can not feel so threatened. You can feel like you have some agency.

And so working with these people in the zoos in aquarium seem like an opportunity to take this feelings of threat and help them see a plan of action and be able to then start having conversations with other people. Can you talk a little bit about what that work is within the zoos and the aquariums? We're working with the National Network for Ocean and Climate Change Interpretation. That's a National Science Foundation-funded project organized by the New England Aquarium, but it's really a vision about creating a community of practice in the zoo and aquarium community. It's bringing in people who are doing this interpretation from around the country, working with an organization called Frameworks Institute,

who are helping structure conversation that is depoliticized and about an interaction between two people on a topic they both are concerned about. And that project, what's exciting about it is it's an unusual training program. We suggested when the project was first getting off the ground that instead of bringing one person to training, that we bring them with someone they work with every day, that they come in twos, that they work together on the problem solving, and that they've got somebody who's got their back in their own office, and those people work together in small groups of ten,

10 organizations. Those people work together in groups of 20, two people from each organization on developing strategies that are unique to their local community. So this project that is zoos, aquariums, nature centers, people who are doing science interpretation around the country, are starting to develop techniques and tools, but they're doing it with friends. They're doing it with coworkers. And that's part of why the psychological aspects of this are so interesting, because what we're starting to see in some of the work that Janet's leading with looking at hope is that it is about those social interactions and feeling that someone can experience what you're experiencing. So part of this is bringing your friends along, but also what you start doing when you go back to

your organization again. And so it's about the social networks that people have within the organizations, the social networks that they have with their friends and family outside of the organization. And then even when they go in and they give a program at a zoo and aquarium or other informal science learning centers, that the people they talk to hopefully will start talking to other people as well. So it's a large networks, but starting at a small scale with the people who actually are on the front line education. When you think about ideas like a disease,

a good idea can migrate around, but it requires multiple contacts. People tend to be resistant to a single contact, but multiple exposure to an idea creates a greater opportunity for it to migrate, to move in society. So when we think about people working in local zoos, aquariums, nature centers around the country, they talk to people every day. Their best friends are their go-to folks for different topics.

So when you work in a zooer aquarium, you're the go-to on nature questions. So our stories about climate change are going to come through social networks, through people we trust. And those one-time visitors may take away a bit of an idea, but the people you talk to in your social life every day, every week, when you call mom and dad. Those are the conversations that really have a chance to pick up around the country and move at a bigger level. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Dr. Swim, Dr. Fraser. This has been very, very interesting. Thank you. Thank you. For more information on Dr. Swims and

Dr. Fraser's work, and to read the report of the American Psychological Association Task Force on Psychology and Global Climb and Change, visit our website at speakingofpsychology.org. Association speaking of psychology, I'm Audrey Hamilton.