Speaking of Psychology - Why people believe in conspiracy theories, with Karen Douglas, PhD

Episode Date: January 13, 2021

This past year, COVID-19 and the U.S. elections have provided fertile ground for conspiracy theories—with sometimes disastrous consequences. Karen Douglas, PhD, of the University of Kent in the United Kingdom, discusses psychological research on how conspiracy theories start, why they persist, who is most likely to believe them and whether there is any way to combat them effectively. Are you enjoying Speaking of Psychology? We’d love to know what you think of the podcast, what you would change about it, and what you’d like to hear more of. Please take our listener survey at www.apa.org/podcastsurvey. Links Karen Douglas, PhD APA Monitor on Psychology Music Futuristic Suspense Ambience by tyops via freesound.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the past year, as COVID-19 rocketed around the world, conspiracy theories quickly followed. Last spring, dozens of cell phone towers were set aflame across Europe amid conspiracy theories that the 5G towers were spreading COVID-19. In January, a Wisconsin pharmacist was charged with deliberately destroying hundreds of doses of the newly available COVID-19 vaccine because he believed a conspiracy theory that the vaccine would change human DNA. And some people are asserting that the virus itself was engineered by the Chinese. These aren't the only conspiracy theories making inroads right now.

A September Pew Research Center survey found that more than half of Americans have heard at least a little about QAnon, the complicated web of pro-Trump conspiracy theories that originated on the message board for Chan. In November, two candidates who voiced support for Q&N theories were elected to Congress. So how do conspiracy theories like these get started and why do they persist? Who is most likely to believe them and why? Is there any way to combat conspiracy theories once they're out there? And what are the consequences for individuals and societies when they spread? Welcome to Speaking of Psychology, the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association

that examines the links between psychological science and everyday life. I'm Kim Mills. Our guest today is Dr. Karen Douglas, a professor of social psychology at the University of Kent in the UK. Dr. Douglas has spent more than a decade studying conspiracy theories and she joins us to talk about their history, causes, and consequences. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Douglas. Hi, Kim. Thank you very much for your invitation.

Hi, everybody. So let's start with a definition. That's always a good place to launch. What counts as a conspiracy theory? I gave a few examples in the introduction, but how do you define conspiracy theories in your research? What are their common characteristics? Well, a conspiracy theory can normally be defined as a proposed plot.

carried out in secret, usually by a powerful group of people who have some kind of sinister goal, so something to gain from what they're doing. And they usually don't have people's best interests at heart, usually their own interests at heart. Some people think that the belief in conspiracy theories has been on the rise in recent years fueled by social media. But in a paper a few years ago, you concluded that wasn't necessarily true. Instead, you found that conspiracy theories have always thrived during times of crisis and social upheaval, with examples going back as far as the burning of Rome while Nero was away, and that the last decade hasn't been particularly more conspiracy prone than the past. Can you talk about that and how do researchers measure this? Sure. Yes, it is definitely the case that the conspiracy theories have always been with us. It believing in conspiracy theories and being suspicious about the actions of others is in some ways quite an adaptive thing to do. We don't necessarily want to trust everybody and trust everything that's happening around us.

And so they have always been with us and to some extent people are all, I guess you could call everybody a conspiracy theorist if you want to use that term at one point or another. And so, yeah, they've always been there. People have always believed in conspiracy theories. As far back as we can remember, people have been having these conspiracy beliefs and having these suspicions about the actions of hostile collectives of individuals. This is just the way that we are wired up to some degree. And in terms of how we measure the extent to which people believe in conspiracy theories,

you can do this in a variety of different ways. And as psychologists, as a social psychologist now, we would normally measure belief in conspiracy theories by simply asking people questions about the extent to which they endorse a particular idea, or the extent to which they endorse a particular idea, or the extent to which they should they believe a particular statement is true.

And you can measure these sorts of beliefs on specific issues. So for example, if you want to know how much somebody believes in anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, then you can ask people to read a bunch of statements about anti-vaccine conspiracy theories. So for example, that pharmaceutical companies are hiding information about vaccine, efficacy, and safety. And then you ask them how much they believe that statement,

know how much they agree with it, how much they think it's plausible. There are various different ways that you can do this. And another way to kind of tap into what some would argue is an underlying tendency to just believe conspiracy theories more generally. You can ask more general questions or ask people to rate the extent to which they believe in statements such as governments often hide secrets from people to suit their own ends. general notions of conspiracy like that. So we'll just ask participants to read these sort of statements and rate the extent to which they agree with them, usually on a

scale from I strongly disagree to I strongly agree that kind of thing. And then usually what we will do is come up with an average conspiracy belief measure or score I suppose total for each individual and then we'll look for associations between that kind of belief and various other psychological factors as well. So the belief is generally always out there. The conspiracies may change over time, but I'm wondering have there been times in history that you've seen when conspiracy theories have spiked? Not necessarily. It's not something I really research in my own studies, but naturally a lot of people are very concerned at the moment that we're seeing

a bit of a spike in believing conspiracy theories with the whole coronavirus situation and also in the USA with the recent presidential election. And I guess time will tell if we if conspiracy theories have I guess been on the rise in this particular point in time compared to times in the past or times in the future. But there is definitely quite a lot of concern that conspiracy theories are on the rise. It's difficult for me to say whether or not they are because I don't really have the data to support, you know, one way or another. But I think that it is definitely the case that even if we can't say for sure that social media has increased conspiracy theories, it certainly changed the way in which people access this information, the ways in which they share this information. And also,

I feel that in many cases, for people who do have have, I guess, an underlying tendency to believe in a particular conspiracy theory or conspiracy theories in general, it's much easier for people to find this sort of information now than it ever has been before. And people can become consumed by this information. They can only seek out this information online so they can go to particular sources, disregard other sources that kind of contradict their views so that they end up, if anything, their attitudes about this particular alleged conspiracy theories, or alleged conspiracies rather, sorry, can become even more polarized. So people's attitudes might become stronger. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if we don't

have evidence that conspiracy theorizing has increased, I think that, and time will tell whether or not that's true. I do think that people's attitudes have become stronger as a result of interacting and sharing and consuming this information on social media and on the internet generally. I'm just wondering, I think I read that there may have been a measurable increase in conspiracy theory theorizing around the turn of the 20th century because of the Industrial Revolution and then also around the end of the Second World War and the beginning of the Cold War. So is that accurate? I think I have come across one study which suggests that that's the case.

But yeah, the evidence is really quite limited and only drawn from a particular type of sources like letters to newspapers and that sort of thing. So it's really difficult to tell, but it does make sense. sense to me that there would have been particular periods in history that conspiracy theories would have been more prominent. And personally, I think we might be in one of those periods right now. Let's talk a little bit about the psychological factors that motivate people to believe in conspiracy theories. I know you've laid out in your research three areas that you call epistemic, existential, and social motives. Can you explain what they are, what those terms mean? Yes, of course. We argue

that people are drawn to conspiracy theories in order to satisfy or in an attempt to satisfy three important psychological motives. And the first of these motives are epistemic motives. And I guess in a nutshell, epistemic motives really just refer to the need for knowledge and certainty and I guess the motive or desire to have information. And when something major happens, When a big event happens, people naturally want to know why that happened. They want an explanation and they want to know the truth, but they also want to feel certain of that truth. And some psychological evidence suggests that people are drawn to conspiracy theories when they do feel uncertain, either in specific situations or more generally.

And there are other epistemic reasons why people believe in conspiracy theories as well, in relation to this sort of need for knowledge and certainty. So people with lower levels of education tend to be drawn to conspiracy theories. And we don't argue that's because people are not intelligent. It's simply that they haven't been allowed to have or haven't been given access to the tools to allow them to differentiate between good sources

and bad sources or credible sources and non-credible sources. So they're looking for that knowledge and certainty but not necessarily looking in the right places. And the second set of motives, we would call existential motives. And really they just refer to people's needs to be or to feel safe and secure in the world that they live in. And also to feel that they have some kind of power or autonomy over the things that happen to them as well. So again, when something happens, people don't like to feel powerless. They don't like to feel out of control.

And so reaching to conspiracy theories might, I guess, at least allow people to feel that they have information that at least explains why they don't have any control over this situation. And research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories. and the final set of motives we would call social motives and those refer to people's desire to feel good about themselves as individuals and also feel good about themselves in terms of the groups that they belong to. And I guess at the individual level, people like to feel, well, they like to have high self-esteem, they like to feel good about themselves. and potentially one way of doing that is to feel that you have access to information that other people don't necessarily have. And this is quite a common rhetorical tool that people use when they talk about conspiracy theories, that everybody else is some kind of sheep, but that they know the truth. They have the truth.

And having that kind of belief, I guess feeling that you're in possession of information that other people don't have can give you a feeling of superiority over others. And we have found and others have shown as well that a need for uniqueness and a need to have, I guess, stand out from others is associated with belief in conspiracy theories. And this happens at the level of the group as well. So people who have an overinflated sense of the importance

of the groups that they belong to, but at the same time, the feeling that those groups are underappreciated, those kinds of feelings as well draw people towards conspiracy theories, especially conspiracy theories about their groups. So in having those sorts of beliefs, you can maintain the idea that your group is good and moral and upstanding, whereas others are the evil doers out there who are trying to ruin it for everybody else. So those three main motives, those three psychological motives, the epistemic existential and social, is possible to summarize, I guess, the psychological literature on conspiracy theories into those three motivations. So, yeah, that's what we argue.

What role, if any, does narcissism play in belief in conspiracy theories? And people who tend to be more narcissistic also believe in these theories as a means of getting that sort of the social capital? Yes, absolutely. That is true. And that's kind of what I was referring to. It's linked to the idea of need for uniqueness as well. That's another, I guess, narcissistic notion that you have, you're in possession of information that other people don't have your different to other people and it makes you stand apart. But yes, narcissism at an individual level has been associated in quite a few studies now with belief in conspiracy theories. And also this narcissism at the group level as well. So an over-involveillance. inflated sense of the importance of your own group, that kind of insecure feeling about your own group is also associated with belief in conspiracy theories. So yes, narcissism is one of those individual differences, variables that does correlate with belief in conspiracy theories.

So a few moments ago you talked about education level as being a factor. And I'm wondering, what about other demographic categories such as age or gender? Do you see any associations between those and tendency to believe in conspiracy theories? Yes. In terms of age, we do. In our research, we generally find that older people believe in conspiracy theories less than younger people do. That tends to show up in most of the studies that we have run. So there's simply a correlation between conspiracy belief and age that is a negative of correlations. So the more you, the older you are, the less you believe in conspiracy theories or the other way around, the younger you are, the more you believe in conspiracy theories. And that

does tend to show up pretty much all of the time. In terms of gender, we, at least in the research that myself and my colleagues have conducted, we've never found any differences in terms of, gender differences in terms of conspiracy belief. So as we measure belief in conspiracy theories using these psychological scales, we have never found that men believe more than women or women believe more than men or whatever. We've never, we've never found anything like that. I think one or two studies may have shown gender differences for specific conspiracy theories. Like I know of a recent study that, and I can't remember which direction it went in actually, but that showed that in terms of COVID-19 conspiracy theories,

there was some kind of gender difference. But personally, I've never found that, which I think is very interesting and kind of counterintuitive in a way, because if people think about the prototypical conspiracy theorist, again, if you want to use that term to describe people, then they do tend to think of a middle-aged, white, man, usually. And that may be the case for the prominent conspiracy theorists, you know, your well-known people who propagate these conspiracy theories, but not necessarily your everyday person who's

consuming this information on the internet and deciding whether or not it's true. We don't really find those gender differences there. That's really interesting. I mean, because it is when you see, we just had this overrun of the US capital here in Washington, and it looked like there were a lot of younger and middle-aged men out there. I mean, certainly there were women involved, but that was the sense. And of course, that is the conspiracy theory that the Trump election was stolen. Yes, yeah, that's true. I think, yeah, that's extremely interesting. And of course, I was watching this on the news as well and thinking very much the same thing. But I think that there probably is a difference in the person who sits at home and reads this information on the internet and decides whether or not it's true,

and the individuals who are prepared to actually go and storm a building or to go out and actively cause trouble based on these conspiracy beliefs. So there's probably a lot going on there, but in terms of the way we kind of measure belief in conspiracy theories, we just don't, with these sorts of gender differences that might see, seem obvious don't seem to play out really in the research that we do on the everyday population, I suppose. Another of your studies found that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are more likely to believe in others, even when those theories directly contradict each other. So, for instance, the more your participants believe that Princess Diana faked her own death, the more they also believe that she was murdered.

And of course, that doesn't make any sense. Can you help explain that? explain that? Yeah, of course. Yes, we feel that that's a, that's, that is a very interesting finding, obviously. We kind of, I guess started from the point that in the literature, it's often being found that if people believe in one conspiracy theory, then they're likely to believe in others. So in other words, there's something that kind of holds these beliefs together. So we were interested to find out, well, what is this underlying belief system or underlying attitude that might mean that these conspiracy beliefs are held at the same time, even if they do contradict

one another. So we set to do these studies. And so we asked participants in this studies to rate the extent to which they agree with different conspiracy theories. One, for example, that Princess Diana was was assassinated by the Royal Family, another one that she was assassinated by MI5, nothing to do with the Royal Family, or others also, but crucially, I think, one that she was assassinated and is dead, and another that she was helped to fake her own death and that she's sort of living it up somewhere on an island having a great time. So she's either, basically, it's not possible to be dead and alive at the same time. Unlike Schrodinger's cat.

Yeah, well, that's, that's it. Yes. We thought, it's just, we thought people would not entertain these two conspiracy theories at the same time. But it turned out that they did. Or at least they were prepared to entertain the idea that both of those things might be true. But we also measured the extent to which people believed, in I guess an underlying conspiracy theory that something just isn't right.

Something's up and something is being covered up. And what we found was that some people did indeed endorse these contradictory conspiracy theories or again at least be, were likely to entertain those two ideas at the same time. But once we also took into account the extent to which they believed that there was just something up,

then that relationship actually disappeared. So it was the relationship between the contradictory beliefs was explained by the I guess underlying belief that just something is being covered up. So you can explain why people will entertain these contradictory ideas because both of those ideas are consistent with the underlying idea that there's just something not quite right. So it's not necessarily to say that they will definitely believe that Princess Diana is dead and at the same time believe that she's still alive. But they'll be happy to entertain the idea that those two

things are possible as long as they also entertain the belief that there was just something that wasn't right about those events. Yeah. Yeah. That helps explain it at least a little bit. Well, what makes a conspiracy theory catch on and have staying power? Are there certain types of theories that are stickier than others or some that are more indefiaries? during like the earth is flat, has been around since forever. So are there characteristics that make them stickier? That's not something that I've done research on myself, to be honest, but I think it's a fascinating question.

It's very true that some conspiracy theories stand the test of time and others just disappear. I think that there must be certain features of conspiracy theories, the ones that last and the ones that don't, I don't personally know, exactly what they are. But I guess one thing that tends to be very, very common is that the event is very, very large. The event that is explained by the conspiracy theory is very, very large and important and usually involving something of great political or social significance. A lot of other conspiracy theories that you might come across just sort of disappear. I guess a lot of the time we just don't really know why they don't. They don't. They don't. don't catch on. But plenty of them, plenty of them do. Yeah, it's a really interesting question. It's a line of research for you to pursue. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. There definitely is. Yeah.

I think that other researchers have started to ask these sorts of questions, but, and I have tried myself to, I guess, not taxonomized, but sort of almost, I guess, not even categorized conspiracy theories but try to isolate some of these features but it's actually very difficult because there are so many of them about so many different events and you pointed out the um flat earth conspiracy theory which has been around forever but um kind of died away for a long time and then in recent years just seems to have gotten popular again um and i do find it quite difficult to explain that i mean i I have a theory about that conspiracy theory that just generally people are becoming less trustful of science and scientists at the present time, which is why we might be seeing these sorts of ideas making a bit of a comeback.

But yeah, no, I think it's a really, really fascinating question. Yeah, because it's not that even some of them disappear, they go away, but then they come back again. Or come back again in a different form or certain conspiracy theory. about particular things like say anti-vaccine or health-related conspiracy theories can kind of reinvent themselves for new things that happen like 5G conspiracy theories about people getting sick from phone masks and things like that so these sorts of conspiracy theories have always been there they kind of mutate I suppose if you like they change but yeah I think it is a really fascinating question and one that I can't, as a social psychologist, can't really answer very well,

unfortunately. Is there any way to effectively debunk a conspiracy theory once it's out there? I mean, can you just present the facts? Like you talked about the anti-vaxxers, you know, the fact that the Lancet article that kind of led to a lot of beliefs that children were becoming autistic as a result of vaccines and then it turned out that that article was was bogus. It was based on faulty data and it was retracted and yet some people are still hanging on to that. So is there a way to stop these theories from continuing to swirl? Yes, there are ways to do this. But of course, it's extremely challenging. It's very, very difficult. Once these conspiracy theories are out there and people believe them, then sometimes people can very, very strongly hold on to these beliefs and

defend them very, very strongly as well. And once these attitudes are very, very strong, of course, from other areas of psychology, we know that attitudes that are very strongly held are difficult to dispute, I guess, difficult to, difficult to change. It's very difficult to change these sorts of attitudes. And so yes, it is a challenge, but there are things that that can be done and a lot of research that especially in very, very recent years as well, has started to come out in terms of how do you, how do you address misinformation? How do you address conspiracy theories? And giving people the facts does work under certain situations. In some of our own research, we've actually found that it's quite effective to provide people with factual information, provide people with the facts,

and this was particularly about vaccines, before they're exposed to conspiracy theories, and then the conspiracy theory sort of fails to gain traction. But once the people have been exposed to the conspiracy theory, then giving them the, I guess, sorry, the appropriate or correct information afterwards doesn't really work. So others have sort of taken this information and have started to look at ways to inoculate people against misinformation and to inoculate people against conspiracy theories and fake news and all sorts of other things, which seems to be working as well. So in other words, you give people either the correct information or some piece of weak misinformation before they're exposed to the worst of. of it, then that helps them to be able to resist it. There are other techniques that people have used,

that researchers have used as well. And just to give you one other example, some researchers have looked at the idea of presenting people with a pre-warning or a forewarning that they might be exposed to misinformation. And if people believe that information that they might receive could be misleading, and they have that information up front,

then that can sometimes help them to resist the misinformation as well. Now, I think these are all really, really valuable tools, but of course, sometimes the misinformation is already out there. So it's difficult to get to people beforehand. So then you have to resort to, I guess, traditional debunking techniques such as going in with consistent, strong counter arguments. But I think that these other opportunities, these other, um, provides real opportunities to help people to resist conspiracy theories in general that they might come across in the future. So if you give people these sorts of, I guess, ways to critically think about information and think, well, you know, okay, I could be exposed to misinformation. That misinformation is out there. So I'm going to be on the lookout for it.

Then it might actually help people to resist it when they come across it next time, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like the techniques that they're trying to use right now with the COVID-19 vaccines, telling people up front that, you know, if you happen to be particularly allergic, you might have a reaction, this is what to expect. And yet it's kind of like a game of whack-a-mole because they talk about all of this and they're trying to be as transparent as possible. And yet along comes somebody who says that the MRNA that's involved in this is actually

going to change the DNA in your body. And so, you know, how do you fight that? Yeah, it's very, very, it is very, very difficult. and there are new conspiracy theories all the time. It is exactly like that game. You're constantly trying to, you've got one, and then you're constantly trying to hit another one away. It is very, very challenging.

There's a lot, there's a lot out there, what going on out there. And of course, this is all complicated by the fact that sometimes conspiracies do exist, and sometimes people may have deep-seated, valid reasons to distrust authority. So, for example, public opinion polls have found that black, Americans are less likely to say they'll take the COVID vaccine and more wary of its safety because they have a long history of being abused and mistreated by the medical establishment. So is there a way for people to balance this awareness with a healthy skepticism of conspiracy theories? Yes. Again, this is extremely challenging and you're absolutely right that some people have

very good reasons to be suspicious of these sorts of things because of past events. and so the challenge becomes even greater. And I don't know the solution to this, apart from the fact that people who are attempting to fight the misinformation will need to be sensitive to these concerns and perhaps be more targeted in their efforts to debunk the misinformation being sensitive to these historical events as well. So it can't necessarily be a one-size-fits-all approach to misinformation just can't be because

everybody's circumstances are different. And we know that different communities feel differently about vaccines and various other things as well for very good reasons. So that, of course, is a huge challenge for anybody trying to deal with potential misinformation about vaccines and other things, but also, yeah, particularly with COVID, a reluctance. to take the vaccine. So what aspects of conspiracy theory are you looking at today? What's your research heading toward?

Quite a few things going on at the moment, actually. I'm really interested in, I guess, the deliberate use of conspiracy theories as a political device. So I've been doing some research, I guess, looking at how people perceive others who are seen to use conspiracy theories and whether or not they see those actions as intentional or deliberate and also what the effects are of of that. I've also been interested in the term conspiracy theory itself and the term conspiracy theorist and how people use those terms whether they use them to I guess

specifically put down other people's ideas or if they simply use these terms when people, when they just don't believe, they don't believe a particular idea and also the effects of these terms on whether or not someone will actually believe something. What else have I been doing? Oh, quite a few things going on.

I've been writing quite a bit about COVID-19 conspiracy theories and also quite generally my research is focused a lot on the consequences of believing in conspiracy theories as well. So in different areas like in vaccines, climate change, politics, in various different domains, specifically what impact do conspiracy theories have on people's attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. So I've been doing a lot on that sort of thing. Well, it's an amazing area for scrutiny and and appreciate the work that you're doing here in helping us to better understand some of the ways

that people's minds work. So thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Douglas. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure. If you'd like to learn more about psychological research on conspiracy theories and other types of misinformation, check out The Monitor on Psychology, the magazine of the American Psychological Association. You can find it at www.apa.org slash monitor.

You can find previous episodes of Speaking of Psychology on our website at www. www.combeatingof psychology.org or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, email us at speaking of psychology at APA.org. That's Speaking of Psychology, all one word, at APA.org. Speaking of Psychology is produced by Lee Weinerman. Our sound editor is Rob and Eva. Thank you for listening for the American Psychological Association.

I'm Kim Mills.