Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 102: Laura Whitmore

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Laura Whitmore is a broadcaster and writer. Born in Bray in Ireland, she started out in live TV after winning an MTV competition in 2008 and moved to London in her early 20s where she remembers being suddenly sent to LA to interview Coldplay. She told me how she thrives on being flung into the deep end and loves multitasking, which comes in handy when you are presenting live TV.  In 2022 she appeared on the West End stage in 2:22 A Ghost Story. Her most recent TV project is a documentary series for ITVX called Laura Whitemore Investigates, in which she looks at subjects of rough sex, women haters and cyber stalking. As she said, she doesn't like to be typecast.Laura is married to comedian Iain Stirling and they have a little girl who was born in 2021. Laura's mum and Iain were instrumental in her being able to go back to work during covid while her baby was still little. Laura is particularly private about her family life which she suspects is influenced by the treatment of her friend Caroline Flack, who she witnessed being so open with the press. Laura told me it will take her years to process taking over presenting Love Island from Caroline following her death.I felt very honoured to be asked into Laura's home to sit and drink tea, and to meet Mick the dog, who you may hear snuffling around now and again during our chat.Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

and now a word from our sponsor which this week is the brilliant Clarks you may have heard that Clarks and Spinning Plates have teamed up for quite a while actually which is brilliant we love Clarks in our house so this section of the podcast is brought to you by Clarks for growing feet in safe hands so Clarks as a brand have almost 200 years experience in perfecting their products and they've taken this expertise into their first shoes offering. Now listen, I speak from experience. Your child's first shoes are so much more than something you put on their feet. They are memory makers. I can remember all my kids' first Clark shoes.

Journey takers as well. They mark that moment that you realise your baby is no longer your baby, they're a toddler. And so we've been thinking, fun activities to do with the kids, it can be a challenge, right? Even for the most creative parents during the holidays. And we're also seeing our little one's skills and dexterity develop. And you're trying to think of things they can get to do.

So over the course of the year, spinning plates and Clarks are going to bring you an extra special Clarks Culture Guide. That's going to give you some inspiration on exciting sensorial things to do with the kids up and down the UK. As they learn to walk and jump and climb and all those things we've got some ideas for you do not worry take for example the British Museum they have a little feet event so they've got actually a selection of fun free family events for the whole family throughout the summer holidays loads of stuff on their website one of them is called Ride the Waves now this is specifically for under fives it's August the 21st. It's completely free. You just need to go on the website and register.

It's taken inspiration from one of the exhibits inside the museum, which is China's Hidden Century. It sounds amazing. It's got creative elements and multi-sensory stations and relaxing areas. You're going to need a towel. It's got wet waves, soft sand. There's even friendly fish that's what the website says so it sounds really good fun as i say take your towel because they're going to make

a splash and the little feet paddling pool um there's also as another in this kind of tip comes quite close to home victorious music festival now i don't know if you've ever taken your little ones to music festivals but i love doing it Victorious is somewhere I played last year. So it's in South Sea, down Portsmouth. It's an amazing day out. It's a beautiful festival. It's pretty big, but it's really special because it's got a real community element and a massive area specifically for kids. And once you're in, so for under fives, it's only a pound five to twelve year olds it's eight pounds and once you're in there's loads of free entertainment there's performers there's you know face painting there's just loads of stuff happening there's sonic the hedgehog you can meet

dinosaurs yeah you heard me right there's absolutely tons of stuff i actually took my kids there last year and we had a ball. It was such a brilliant festival and I really, really recommend it. Another tip, and this is across the UK from Lincolnshire to Dorset, Kent, Cambridgeshire, the natural play areas for kids in National Trust properties are brilliant. So there's loads of stuff to do, splashing through streams, climbing up a treehouse, going through the branches of a little woodland den. I find when I take my kids to outdoor spaces, it's like everything makes sense. They can run around, they can use their imagination, just be free and happy. So check the website for the places that's near you or somewhere you're travelling because in a lot of places the kids under five go free and have a little look. So there's loads

to check out in the family friendly section on their website for your options or around the UK. I want to say thanks so much to Clarks for partnering with Spinning Plates on this extra special Clarks Culture Guide it's definitely given me some ideas and we'll be back around half term with another guide in the meantime please let me know how you get on with your adventures share some pictures on social with the hashtag ClarksCultureGuide. I'd love to see you out and about. And any suggestions you have to keep your little ones entertained, please send them my way.

I always need more ideas. Also, remember, Clarks in-store fitting service is available in all Clarks Kids stores. And each pair of shoes nurtures happy, healthy movement at every stage of child's walking development and beyond. So shop Clarks First Shoe Collection now or book an appointment for an in-store fitting at clarks.co.uk. Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates,

the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello to you. I am packing for a holiday.

I find it slightly stressful. Try not to find it stressful. I've sent the kids out to watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles while I'm packing, and I'm a bit of a control freak, so I do it myself, and that means that I always make a mistake basically. Sometimes it's a very glaring one, like the time I forgot to pack myself any pants. There was also another time where I forgot to pack.

What was I forgot for kit? I think it might have been t-shirts or shorts. He had none of one of those. But I think it's just because my brain gets a bit split with thinking about the different kids and what they need, and I just get it a bit wrong. So I'm surrounded by little piles, little shorts, little T-shirts. I'm planning on doing some washing while I'm away,

so I'll keep on top of it. I'm not taking much. They don't really wear much, do they? I don't really wear much. Swimsuit, shorts, T-shirts. It's kind of all you need, I reckon. Swim wear, that's the main one. That's the big one.

A couple of options for that, so that when something's the main one that's the big one a couple of a couple of options for that so that when something's wet they can chuck on new stuff when they go back in the water and everything dries in the sun super fast oh it's just going to be so nice I've got three gigs between now and the holiday a little bit of complicated planning so basically I leave tomorrow the kids leave later in the week. Richard leaves with the kids. I join them when they're one day into the holiday. It's a little bit complicated. But once I'm there, shoulders down, relax.

It's going to be good. And I'm so ready for a holiday. We had a lovely weekend last weekend. We went to three festivals. Camp Festival, Why Not, Rock Oyster. Took my youngest three with me and a pal for the oldest one, the 11 year old. It was really fun. It was a bit drizzly, but the kids were still really good. And we went out in the rain and just got on with it. Ferris wheels and art classes and

listening to music and eating food and all of that stuff. It was really fun. And the gigs were great too. So yeah, very special. It's always really nice to take him away. And big thanks to my band and crew for being very tolerant at having four extra kids in the tour bus, which meant we had no spare bunks. So it was a little bit, you know, busy, but good. Really, really good. And thanks to Jessica for looking after them while I was on stage very important role of course the bigger ones I can bring without any anyone helping me out but little ones I mean you wouldn't trust a four-year-old to stay still at the side of a stage for an hour would you knew so yeah it was

really good it was lovely I'm glad I did that and now yeah just sort of pulling on just I'm ready for a break I just need I need a little bit of downtime now with the kids and the family I'm just, I'm ready for a break. I just need, I need a little bit of downtime now with the kids and the family. I'm ready. Anyway, you did not come here to hear my packing spiel. This week's podcast guest. So the nice thing about having a podcast that's been running now for three years is that some people I've interviewed and I'm now interviewing now, they've become parents since I started so when Laura Whitmore became pregnant I thought oh she could be a really interesting guest later on it makes me sound a bit creepy I don't mean it that way um I've known Laura for a few years not super well we've met on and off over the years you know in a work capacity and I said only more recently that um we got to know each other a

little bit better I really like her I find her really warm and smart and a really good broadcaster so Laura is uh she started off in MTV presenting for MTV and then she's now done all sorts of different broadcasting I suppose most notably things like her own show that she's had on Sunday mornings recently it's just finished the first series um she's been doing Love Island for a little while in 2020 I think it was and 2021 as well uh she has one baby who's now I think around 18 months a little girl and she's been pretty private about all that so which I completely respect of course um but I was intrigued to hear about how she found motherhood when she saw in the public eye and also the fact that I remember seeing Laura about two weeks before she gave birth and it was on the set of Celebrity Juice where

she was on one of the panels she looked pretty phenomenal and I was like when are you due and she's like oh two weeks I was like blimey that's impressive and then it seemed like you blink and she was back to work after her baby was born and I sort of looked at it with a mixture of like huge being very impressed of course but also thinking I wonder what that feels like on the inside. I have gone back to work pretty quick from some of my babies, but that first one, I just didn't feel like I had much tethering in myself to know how to go about my work. But with talking to Laura, I realised that her work was part of what that process was,

like making her feel like her. And as she says herself, she didn't want to be immediately the mum you know capital t capital m but to find her own way and finding her own way involved also going back to work and having all that in the diary with her mum there and it really made a lot of sense to me actually I could totally understand the emotional core of why that was important you were here for yourself but it was just such a joy to spend time in Laura's lovely house and hear about all of this stuff and how it was for her and uh yeah I always have had a soft spot for her but it made me warm to her even more which to be honest is the outcome for pretty much every single guest

I've had on aren't I lucky it's just a nice thing because I think when people talk about their relationship with, I don't know, becoming a new mum, it takes you back to a period of something new where even the most sure of us can sometimes feel a little vulnerable. And when you go back to that time, I think it just makes you reveal things about yourself in a different way because that's what's happening to you in the process that's what makes these conversations interesting to me I love it anyway um while we're listening back to chat with Laura I'm gonna keep packing so wish me luck I don't know where my 11 year old swim things are that's the only thing I'm missing oh there is something I should probably mention I always forget when I do the intros that you might not know I've obviously done my research on the guests but sometimes I assume that you have

as well um Laura mentioned sometimes her partner her husband Ian Ian is Ian Sterling he's a comedian and he also does the voiceover for Love Island and if you're like me and you've listened to it then you'll know he's brilliant. I thought I'd mention that just because she does mention him. I think that's it. I've tried to give a bit of a history. I'm just really bad. I always forget that not everybody knows the things that I know.

That's bad, isn't it? That's a bad podcast host. At least you have a lovely little section about the podcast which is co-written by my producer claire who's actually really good at those things so that's good anyway i think that's it the packing continues the hunt for the 11 year old swimwear continues life is really nice to see you you too how are you today i'm all right actually um the weather's a bit grim outside i felt you know and i don't know if that makes you feel more tired i just felt like i was i started on the wrong foot this morning i'm like you know a little bit late slept in a little bit then running late for like nursery drop off and all

that stuff. But I'm OK, I'm sitting and I'm chilling and I'm having a nice coffee. Sleeping in a bit late sounds good. Yeah, but not in a good way. OK, fair enough. I'm late! And what's it like being interviewed? Because obviously you spend a lot of time interviewing other people.

Is it quite nice being... Yeah, I've gotten better at it. I know the first few times I've ever been interviewed, I'm like, what do they want from me? Because know how my mind works and i'm like is that a leading question what does that mean but um today is fun yeah and i suppose you put your trust you thank you that's a good start and we can hear mick maybe that's my dog my dog will is hovering around the ppatter of tiny paws. It's so needy. I like it. When I'm at home, I've got my cat,

so I feel like it's a sort of nice decadence. He kind of looks like a cat, doesn't he? Those cats are bigger. He's the same sort of proportions as a cat. And so what's going on at the moment? I know you've got a new series that's starting soon, later this month, so why don't we start by talking about that? Yeah, that's kind of a strange one.

So I'm doing a documentary series, but I started making it over a year ago. Oh, wow. So it feels really strange for it to be coming out now because I'm so used to doing live television that you make something and it's out there and then or it's out that week and it's so immediate and you do an immediate reaction and you move on. Yeah.

Well, it's strange to do something that i started a year like over a year ago actually talking about it but some of the interviews and um it's can you hear him growling i can't is he offended by my footwear he's offended by the fact i've got a croissant and i'm not sharing it with him i thought you just didn't like my high tops uh no he's a a big fan of them. He was rubbing against them earlier on. I'm sorry. Know your space, know your boundaries. So, yeah, and it's very different to maybe the type of shows

I've worked on beforehand and dealing with some quite serious issues, everything from misogyny and incels, which is a term that's kind of come to light the last few years basically a certain kind of group of men who define themselves as hating women um which is weird because I am a woman sitting in those situations doing those interviews is a very surreal environment but I did that like a year ago and now it's coming out and now you kind of have to step back in step back in when you've taken that break away. But maybe it's something quite nice in that too, because I've given myself a bit of time,

a bit of hindsight, which I don't sometimes get with things I work in because I'm in it. So it's a very different experience. Yeah, and I suppose also you've got the buffer of whatever else you're up to at the moment. Yeah. Because I imagine those topics.

So as I understand it,'ve got three three parts to it you've got toxic masculinity yeah and then i look closer look at bdsm and that's up yeah and the rough sex and um and that world and then the final one cyber stalking so yeah just a barrel of laughs you know you have to laugh sometimes some of the days i'm like and actually i worked with such a lovely crew mainly female crew which was great and we some of the situations we were in you kind of are so surreal and some are really heartbreaking but you kind of have to have that camaraderie and a bit of what is this and and a bit of lightness within that too which has been really helpful definitely because i think um well we can kind

of close ourselves off from a lot of that stuff most of the time because it probably happens in murky corners of the web or people you can block or things like this but to actually sit opposite someone and try and work out what's led them to yeah actually um act on the impulses that you know the darker impulses they have yeah Yeah. It's pretty intimidating. And some of these situations, I kind of surprised myself. I was a bit apprehensive with some men who I interviewed. And I travelled to America to interview a lot of the guys. And some would change their mind. They would do an interview, and then they didn't want to do the interview.

But I was spiked by how many people would talk to me. And even though I didn't agree with their views, I probably gave them something they don't always get which is time and and after listening to them I didn't hate them as much as I thought I would does that sound a sense and it was a very weird thing to deal with because a lot of times I would talk to someone and and be in a situation I'd never ever put myself in and realize oh you've had a really terrible upbringing or something bad happened to you and it's kind of how do you define that and how do you find that out and how do we

stop that happening and these these men who basically slipped through the cracks and and the one thing is you know is it just online banter and we've all seen horrible comments and things that people say to each other online but at some point that does cross over to real life and that does become a real threat and we have seen that and it's like how can you differentiate between the two of them um but I was really shocked by coming out going I liked him more than I thought I would this is terrible like how do I feel this way and I just realized everyone is you're trying to find those human qualities in everyone yeah trying to find a bit of good and what went or what went wrong. Yeah.

How do you feel this way now has led to this? I think that's actually the way what you're talking about there sums up a lot of what I think is wrong about how a lot of things are debated online, actually, is because we have got this quite binary thing. And it's you're so encouraged to be team A or team B and then just to sort of throw stones at the other side. team A or team B and then just to sort of throw stones at the other side but actually as you say if you start to go back in time to work out where things maybe where people weren't supported or where they didn't receive the support yeah the education or the opportunities yeah you know that that's actually how you make better progress yeah and just listen rather than shouting each other I mean some people are just dicks do you know what I mean some people say things like you're just an idiot so but but I do think is, we don't allow ourselves.

We shout at each other rather than go, okay, tell me. I don't agree with you, but I will listen to you. And people can change their mind. I hope. Otherwise the world won't get better. You can change people's minds. Or even just open them up to see new things and understand people's experiences.

Because it's very hard for a man to understand what it's like for a woman And, or even just open them up to see new things and understand people's experiences. Yeah. Because it's very hard for a man to understand what it's like for a woman because they don't see it through the female gaze. And I don't understand what it's like for a guy these days. So I just think it's quite nice that we kind of talk about our experiences. Yeah. It's the only way we learn. I agree. I totally agree.

And is that probably like the most sort of I suppose sort of heavy serious topics you've had to deal with in broadcast you think yes and no because I think a lot of the light shows I work in come with their heaviness as well like everything nothing is ever as light as it seems and I've definitely come up against even like the first time I moved to London from Ireland and I won this competition to maybe be on MTV but like I was living by myself um but trying to find somewhere to live and we talked about this before we started like going around looking for flats in London and going this isn't as glamorous as I thought it was going to be no um and you know and I've definitely had to you know in television it's a it's a really great environment to work in

and it's a really hard environment to work in and there's definitely ups and downs and it's kind of finding your own voice within that space. And I've definitely had to, I've definitely worked on live television shows where sometimes personal stuff could be really hard behind the scenes, but you still have to go in and do your smile and do your job.

And that can be conflicting sometimes because you feel this isn't how I feel right now. But it's the same probably for musicians who have to go up on stage and maybe have had a really horrible day something personal like but they have to go up and entertain yeah and because it's not for them it's for the audience so yeah it's although this is on one hand probably uh I guess from an optics point of view seems heavier I think we've all had to deal with heavy and light always but now i can actually kind of talk about it in a much more real way yeah i think that's a really astute thing and i think that we're lucky we both probably adore a lot of what

we do for a living and do something really passionate about but i have had gigs where i've come off stage and thought i mustn't misinterpret like the fact that i mostly do enjoy what i do isn't actually intrinsic to me being able to do my job yeah it's just like an extra yeah I have to still to be able to deliver the same job no matter what's happening on the inside and and it's and it's hard there's that juggle and I've constantly got these like internal conversations with myself and sometimes I have to give myself a talking to because I'll go in to do something that I'm really not in the mood to do that day but I have to do it yeah um and then sometimes you feel guilty because you know how lucky you are to do a job that you

love but it's it's hard and I'm still navigating this industry and and finding what makes me happy um and also pushing myself well I did your show not that long ago. Yes, thank you for coming on. Well, I really enjoyed it. And I have to say, you're such a brilliant broadcaster. I think you did such a... I know you've said about live TV and how you kind of work in that way and your brain can be doing three different things at once where you're chatting to one person and working on the next thing

and listening to someone in your ear. But I thought you were so great. And I was wondering where you think you learned, which job do you think has kind of given you the most in terms of like progressing with how you went into it and how you left it? It's one of those things, learning by doing. I've definitely been in so many different situations.

Like the first job I had was for MTV. So I went, my background was journalism. And I was working, I was interning. My dog is licking my hand now. I don't know if you can hear that. But I remember working in this newsroom and I found it really hard. I was just interning in this radio station because news is not great. So if you're in that environment constantly every day when you hear bad things are happening

or people do bad things, it does affect you. And I have a lot of friends who are still in news and I'm like fair play to them because I don't think I have that ability. I think I'm going to say too sensitive I don't think that's a bad thing but I think I am too sensitive to be constantly in that I've been really happy with doing the doc stuff because I feel I'm able to be a bit more emotional with it um but I still like throwing myself in all these situations and giving it a go so going from this newsroom and interning there from interviewing you know know, people like politicians before they go on air.

And then I entered a competition to be an MTV presenter and won that. So I ended up going from this newsroom to be like the lowest of the low in that situation, like making the tea, the coffee, doing the pre-interviews to then moving to London within the space of like a month and being sent to LA to interview Coldplay. Do you know, like, how does the girl who makes the coffee do that?

So quickly, I think we were all surprised. But I think throwing yourself in situations that you don't think you're ready for, you just learn on the spot. I think that has really set me up. And that's why I like live, because anything can happen. And it has. Like, I've worked in situations where in your ear you get

told um I remember doing I'm a celebrity get me out of here now which was the backstage show so we're in Australia at seven in the morning um because it's UK time UK evening and you're outside so there's bugs flying around and then you're meant to throw to um a clip from that you know that um a bush took a trial and then in your ear here oh we don't have that tape ready just fill three minutes and you're like oh wow okay that prepares you that you but yeah you'd rather not learn on the spot but i and i'm sure it's the same with performances you can't really prepare yourself for doing a live gig until you do a live gig and that's that's how you learn it's the best way and the more you do and the more things go wrong the less anxiety you have about things going on because you've sort of been through them

yeah and like there's nothing that has happened like i'm ready for everything because it has happened at some point um i've definitely worked on live shows where oh like as i said the personal stuff like you could be going through like a breakup behind the scenes or you you could be up for like another big job and you're really excited am I going to get it but you're like no I'm working on this job at the moment or like you know I've been in all those situations but I've always managed I don't know how I'm a good multitasker but then I find it really hard to just do one thing yes I can see that about you so like there's always something else going in my head I'm still thinking of other things and and even like um Ian uh my partner it's sometimes he's

doing one thing and I'm so jealous that he can he can just cut everything out I'll be talking to him and he won't hear me because he's just focused on that one thing I'm like I wish I could do that because I'm probably thinking of other things which kind of helps when you've got the in-ears and people talking to you yeah looking at the autocue and you're interviewing someone else but I thrive off multitasking. Yeah, there's a certain kind of adrenaline that comes with all of that busyness, isn't there? And like having your brain stimulated. But if you were like strapped up to something, you'd see all these little areas lighting up at different times. Yeah, like working away, all these little people inside.

But yeah, sometimes I do find it hard just to switch off though. Yes, switching off is often quite a tricky thing. And sometimes, I wonder if you're like me, actually. Part of my motivation for doing lots of things is I think my actual alternative setting is probably doing very, very little at all. Because I actually think sometimes I can be quite good at being really quite lazy.

So I sort of make sure I've got lots of things I've got to keep going on with. Yeah, I know what you mean. If I can get so much done in one day, or I could probably do nothing in one day, I feel like there's no in-between. Yeah, exactly. And I probably work better and I feel better when I'm being productive. And the more stuff you have to do, the more you get done.

Yes, I think this is true. There's that phrase, like, if you want something done, ask a busy woman. Yeah, she'll get it done. So in amongst all this ambition and busyness did you always think that motherhood would be something you'd want to have part of your life as well yeah it's it's that it's you spend your whole life I went to a convent in Ireland like um like an all-girls school and you spend your whole life kind of being scared you're going to get pregnant because that's what's kind of drilled into you look at a boy you'll get pregnant it'll happen and and I really wanted a career and it was my mother was

a single mother um who had a career and raised me and I was at that particular time probably one of the few kids who was probably not picked up from the school gates by their mom what was your mom doing at the time so she worked in civil service okay um so she like went to work in a suit and i and actually i quite i love that about her and she it was you know 80s 90s big shoulder pads perm i mean that was mistake for everyone who told him that was good but this is my my image and i love that i thought that was really cool yeah um i think she now as i'm older i remember one of the things she said to me she said said, I've always felt really bad I was too tired to play with you.

But I never felt that. Yeah. And I never, I shouldn't say this, I never really missed that she wasn't there to pick me up because I did so much stuff, extracurricular stuff after school. So in my head, I was like, oh, I still want, I want the career and I want the kids.

And the kid will come because in your head, you just assume that's what happens. And it's only when you get older, I was like, oh, I still want the career and I want the kids. And the kid will come because in your head you just assume that's what happens. And it's only when you get older you're like, oh, you don't have to have a kid, first of all. And it mightn't be that easy to have a kid. And especially if you're like single or like, oh, yeah, I thought I'd be married by now or I thought I'd be doing this by now. And expectations change. But then what I want changes. I remember when I was

like younger you're like oh yeah I'll probably have my first kid by the time I'm 25 and then married by 30 and yeah you've got it all mapped out yeah and then you get to 30 I'm like I don't I like I had my I had my child when I was 35 and I still felt nervous telling my mother as though I was like 16 because I'm pregnant oh my god it's shocking um so yeah I think I always thought I would have a child but I I it's funny I just was always afraid how it would affect my career if I'm honest because as soon as you have a child in this industry you kind of become the mom and I've really tried to not let that define me because I'm still me and I'm trying to deal with my own stuff personally I don't want other noise from the outside yeah um which is

why I've always been really hesitant talking about that because as soon as you give a little bit then suddenly it's like oh you're the mom okay great let's do I I remember when I um was first pregnant and it was during lockdown so no one really it was great I did like lockdown for that I know it was tough in many ways but I liked my privacy in that time

so I think I was six months pregnant before anyone knew I was pregnant and the day I got a call from like my agent saying some paper knows

you're pregnant they're going to write about it classic so I was like okay I'm going to control this narrative and like put it up on my Instagram

and then like the next day and this not to sound ungrateful but I remember like loads of brands sent me like stuff like for having a kid like breast pumps and and I got so overwhelmed because I'm like I'm I haven't prepared myself to I don't know what these stuff is for and it was it seems like such a nice thing and I feel so ungrateful for saying, like, I'm really thankful for getting these products. But I was so overwhelmed. I had a pram come to the house. I had all these things. And I'm there pregnant going,

I haven't really dealt with, like, having a baby yet. And now I'm the mom. And now I'm getting all these things sent to my house. I don't know how this breast pump works. Do I use it? What do I do? And I remember just being like, I can't deal with it. I can't deal with it.

That I found really tough. Well, I think actually what you've summed up there I mean obviously that's you know the idea of everything being sort of delivered to your door is very literal but I think that shift in perception and feeling like you're suddenly like as you say the mum capital t capital m yeah and sort of into this whole bracket i think that's overwhelming for loads of people with their first baby because you feel like you've suddenly sort of it's a bit like someone oh you're having a baby in that case you'll be you'll suddenly want to wear these kind of clothes and you'll want i'm sure you want this kind of color scheme and this is that sort of cotton you go how well i haven't actually worked out any of this stuff yet yeah and so obviously there's lots about parenthood that's a really universal thing yeah but then there's also the bit that's just when it's you and your baby and

whoever else you're raising your baby with or whatever shape that looks and it's really bespoke and I've always whenever people are having their first baby I always say to them well just just remember you're the first person to ever have your baby. Yeah, so no one knows. Yeah, so you can kind of, as you say, like, create your own narrative, but also just set your own tone. You can do it your way, but I think I totally get that feeling of going like, stop, I don't even know what half of this stuff is, or if that's what I want in my life, or if I'm going to do those things. I haven't kind of worked any of that stuff out.

It must have been nice for you to have that six months quiet, though. It was lovely. It was really lovely. And I was still working. I was still working. I was doing Celebrity Juice at the time, but with no live audience. And you sit at a desk, and I was team captain, so you can't see your bottom half.

And I get to go in. My glam team would do me up. I don't think I bought any maternity clothes. I just like... So when I saw you at Celebrity Juice, I think you were really like very heavily pregnant right I think you had like you said I'd come to you

in like two weeks or something yeah I think I filmed a show on the Wednesday and my waters broke on the Friday night oh my goodness because I saw you

in the hallway and you were wearing like this like little mini dress and high platform shoes I have to tell you it was really funny for me because I

I didn't know all I knew about I'd seen the show but I didn't know what my involvement would be so I was like I wore these like I wore dark tight, all I knew about, I'd seen the show, but I didn't know what my involvement would be. So I was like, I wore these, like, I wore dark tights because I thought, well, I might end up, you know, having to go, like, crawl around or do a stout.

Which is true, which happens. Yeah, and I wore little flat shoes. I thought, well, I got there. And there was you in the platform, Maya Jammer in, like, this, like, hover, hover, Dolce & Gabbana little gown. And I just felt like such a nanny. I was like, oh, my God nanny I was like oh my god

can I go home and get changed I didn't but normally you start off you start off really glad with that show and then by the end of it they give you a pair of lycra pants and a pair of trainers so that's true but the one thing I knew when I was pregnant I'm like they're not going to make me do that so I'm going to wear my heels yes get me my heels on and I really enjoyed that I really enjoyed um that time particularly my last trimester getting dressed up and not just being hidden away at home some people want to do that that's fine I didn't want to do that I like that I liked having fun having a laugh um over really rude jokes it was it was really it was really refreshing to and it gave me a little bit of

escapism where I wasn't just at home reading baby books going oh my being terrified of childbirth I actually had the most positive birthing experience that I think one can have but for me it was I was everything I wanted to be because I felt like a girl a lot of people don't have that so it's really nice to hear a lot of people told me their bad stories before yeah that's a weird trait it's so weird it's so weird um and I always just say but then also I'm very aware of my story is my story and I would never I don't want to make people feel bad if they didn't have that either and it's really tricky which is why I'm always really careful talking about my own experiences because they're my experiences and they're so personal to

me but I think because I was working right up to childbirth um I didn't get time to get scared because suddenly like I was having a baby and then the baby was here and I was working right up to childbirth, I didn't get time to get scared. Suddenly, I was having a baby and then the baby was here. Do you think that might have been slightly intentional then, as a way of knowing how your mind works and thinking, if I just keep, I'm still me, I'm still Laura going to work and I still love fashion and my friends and being silly and fun. Yeah, it's finding what makes you feel good. And if that's being at home in your slippers

on the sofa watching your favorite shows or if it's in six inch heels you know listening to Keith Lemon be really rude and a naked man running around so be it but that's but that I found that really really helpful at that time because I needed that little bit of escapism and then I kind of and I knew I remember someone tell me about like oh you should make your your birthing plan and then you know some people laminate it so they can bring it in with them I'm like but how do you plan it because you don't know what's going to happen yeah so I didn't I didn't write it out I just in my head knew whatever happened I wanted to have control because I like having control that's definitely something I need

um and that was the one thing I always said to Ian um with childbirth whatever was happening that I knew what was happening and that was always relayed back to me and that there was a choice you could do this or this this has happened now this or this and I think that's taken away from a lot of women um when they don't really know what's going on um so that I'm always like just trying to reclaim that back yeah I think that you're right about the information and just understand what's going on but also the more I'm listening to you the more I'm thinking that um because I know that you went back to work with a really little baby which I think actually is very very you and obviously was part of how your mind works and made you actually feel really safe within

that beginning bit um because it doesn't happen by accident if you know you're going to bring a newborn then you need to have you know the support around you you need to plan that yeah it's not like you just pitch up and go oh god i didn't realize the date was you know so close to to birth you know you have to actually everything was this make a decision yeah yeah and everyone around you has to be aware of that and it's also this is the industry that we work in you can't you don't take maternity leave in the same way I don't get you know maternity pay I don't work I'm freelance if I don't work I don't get paid so if I'm working on a show like Celeb Juice at that time I remember going back and I love that show it was 20 minutes from my house

I sat down had my makeup done had a laugh went home and I remember going back I think like two weeks after having my child because I needed it

and I wanted it but I was also breastfeeding exclusively at that time so like my baby came with me the whole time and my mom was there. Actually at the time Ian came with me. So he was in the dressing room and I was able to feed every three hours. And as the show went on, my boobs got bigger,

but it was great. It looked great. I was like, I miss them. And then I'd sometimes, I was at one point I was like pumping during the show because all that stuff that was sent to me, I actually used in the end. So it was fine.

Oh, they're not headphones. Yeah, I'll take that. But you're right, there was a lot of planning. And I'm lucky that I could do it probably at this stage of my career, when I started MTV, if I had turned around and said, I'm pregnant, can I bring my baby in? It probably wouldn't have happened. But now it's like, I really want to do this, but this is the conditions.

And it's, you know, it's... Even when I was doing love island i remember like flying back and forth with her because i was still feeding her at that time and it was it was during covid as well which is quite difficult in many ways but because we but every time i had to fly back from sounds so complicated when i went to spain i had to fly back and then isolate for at the time three days before i could do the studio show on a Sunday but I kind of liked that because I'd fly back and then I get three days at home with my baby yeah enforced yeah enforced um so it kind of worked out I was very I just had my little team

around me and people couldn't I didn't have loads of visitors coming because people couldn't come and visit but it worked for me and it's finding what works but you're right it was it was a plan and my thank god I didn't have my mum and my husband supporting me, there's no way I could have done it. Yeah, and also I think there's a lot of emphasis put on that sort of early years parenthood and what that's supposed to look like. But actually we're very used to the fact that when children grow,

you know, culturally, we're really supportive of people having all sorts of ways that they go about their business when their kids get older but actually I think you know it's not um it's not a straight line you know you if it works for you to have I actually think bringing babies to work when they're little has worked really well for me as well because if I say to someone can you just hold this baby for two seconds most people go oh, oh my God, how nice. Yes, please. It gets tricky when they get older. Yeah, it was easier when she was younger. And actually, and I didn't mind because, I shouldn't say, they don't do that much when they're babies.

They just like sleep, eat, poop and lie there. While now I feel more aware, but I don't want to miss like, you know, the first time they do this, the first time they say this word and the first, and that it's really exciting at this time. like the two to three is such a fun age yeah um could I bring her on a flight with me every two weeks at the moment probably not also you just quite enjoy those little gaps where you don't have to deal with it sometimes it's quite nice

because it was before I just used to have a little carrier, a little baby on me and it was, I shouldn't say easy, but it was easier. Yeah, they're portable. If you put them down, they stay in the same place. Yeah.

Now it's like, where did I leave her? So yeah, but then you don't know what it's going to be like until you're in it. Absolutely. Yeah.

And what was it like having that time with your mum? That must have been nice having your mum around. Yeah. That's been a really interesting journey because my mum lives in Ireland mum around yeah that's been really interesting journey because my mum lives in Ireland but Daphne's been spending more time over here she gave up three

months last summer so I could do Love Island um because I because I didn't know my hours because you get a call from a producer saying oh we're going to use you in three days time so you'd be like okay I have to be ready and it's very you can't really book child care that way no so my mom was basically in spain for three months as i was flying back and forth um so that's i mean i'm forever grateful for that she also loves that baby more than she's ever loved me probably i think a grandmother's love is very different she's not here to contest that i'm sure yeah but she would probably she would probably agree like sometimes i'd be in the house I'm like where's my mom gone where's my child gone out the door in the park um but I think that's been lovely and it's been um a lovely time for us because you kind of forget that your parents are people and then it's like oh you did this but me and she did it by herself yeah so I'm very lucky to have a very hands-on partner who

did the night feeds and and and was there with me while my mum did it by herself and I have no idea how she did that yeah your mum does sound pretty phenomenal doing that I mean I've got this real image in my head of her in the in the suits going out yeah but also how nice you said that you know she felt guilty but you could reassure her, like, no, I was fine. I'd built up, you know, I was doing other things. I got resilience. And it also probably sowed the seeds for a really amazing work ethic. Yeah, it is.

My mum has an incredible work ethic, and I think, I'd like to think I've got that from her. I like working, and I will always give it 110%. That's what she does. But I also, like, if I'm too long in the house with her, I'll kill her, do you know? But I think that's normal. Especially mothers and daughters.

Yes, definitely. But as we're talking, I can see you've got a picture up of Bray. So that's where you grew up, right? Yeah, yeah. That's where I'm from. So my mum still lives there. It looks very beautiful.

Yeah, I mean, that's... I know this is the tourist version. The tourist version, like the 60s. Oh, I thought that was a photo. No, I can see it. But no, I have such good memories of growing up there. And I think you appreciate a place more when you don't live there. Mm-hmm.

Even just, like, I live by the sea. And now I live in North London, which I love. I love North London, but I do miss a bit of fresh air sometimes. Did you ever think about moving anywhere with your child, or it not something you thought about i think with the type of work that i have me and ian like we do travel around quite a lot so it's just the base it's going to be harder obviously with schools and things like that um but i like having a base for me i wouldn't have the same work opportunities at home but But Ireland's so easy to get to. Like, we can just go for the weekend and we do a lot of trips.

To be honest, with family come over here quite a lot now. Yeah, I bet. And I also have such a strong sense of being Irish and that's something that I want her to experience as well. But I find that in other places, there's a London Irish Centre in Camden that I just did a big event for last week um and they do like Irish classes and they kind of really promote the

Irishness so I'm really pushing that on her that's lovely identity Irish dancing they do Irish dancing there yeah my friend Sinead who's Irish her daughter does Irish dancing that was definitely a stipulation they live in the UK but she was like yeah I got forced to Irish dancing as a kid and my child will also get that too I wonder how you'll find it though if your daughter has a different accent to the two of you because that could be quite a funny one it's going to be really weird because me and Ian have different accents and very strong specific voices um people always recognize us well him by his voice anywhere we go I'm like can you just please just put a different accent on because and his voice is so loud

he's such a loud Scottish accent and mine is not quiet either and then we'll probably have this really like posh English accent of a child but that was something

I've had to come to grips with and a good friend of mine Imelda May a musician and she's from like you know inner city Dublin

the Liberties and such a iconic beautiful accent that's so Irish. And then and her daughter grew up here and she's got this like British English accent. And it's it's crazy. And I'm like, how do you how do you find that? Because I had that question asked me, like, how do you feel about your daughter having a different accent to you? And it's English and it's especially coming from an Irish background. And my mom still thinks she's going to have an Irish accent I'm I don't think she I know we'll just push the Irish I'm like

you know we don't live in Ireland you might be able to get her to do certain phrases yeah that's what my friend does with her kids like make some more practice you know what's a crack and she'll be able to take us off quite well but um I mean the accent is the least worries I got like if she's happy and healthy, like that's the most important thing. But it is, I do find a lot of people at home ask me that question. I think it's kind of just more intriguing, but also I suppose those sorts of things

are a nice sign of like evolution because you've kind of like, you know, got where you came from and then this is like the next bit in the path, you know, it's quite nice, isn't it? Yeah, it's like this, like having an Irish mother and a Scottish father and then we've kind of, I like london's such a great place where you've got all

these cultures together yeah um and actually um captain ryan who doesn't live too far from here i heard saying she's a canadian accent and her daughter has this english accent so i think we're raising we're raising all these kids with these accents that we don't have. And she'll probably speak, and people will understand her more than they understand me. But, yeah, even that, I'm just trying to get my head around it. But she says little words now, the way I say it, or the way Ian says it, so at the moment, we can hear the Scottish and the Irish coming through. She'll probably keep those bits. Yeah.

Were you ever at all worried about your ability, because obviously being able to think fast and respond to stuff is such an intrinsic part of what you do. Were you ever worried about how you'd feel when you had, you know, when you were a new mum and you were going back into all that? Or was it not something that, I suppose you didn't really give yourself much time to worry about it? I didn't give myself, I tend to be a doer.

And it's only afterwards I think about things, which is maybe a good thing, but then sometimes I can get myself in situations. You say yes to stuff without really thinking through things. Yeah. Well, I used to be such a yes woman. I'd say yes to everything and I'd hate letting people down and then I'd tie myself in knots

and then probably end up letting people down because I've tried to do too much. So I've really tried to say no and be a little bit more selfish with doing things that don't work for me. And I think that doesn't come from me. I think it comes from, like, having someone else that

you're responsible for because that's my priority so if a job comes up and I really want to do it but it has to be I have to bring them with me or I have I need this or and that becomes a stipulation so I think it's more my priorities have changed so sometimes I have to say no um but yeah I do feel like I'm constantly doing things then looking back going oh shit like I can't believe I had a baby and did that whole show I was flying back and forth and dealt with all those emotions um but then I remember someone got the MTV job and I moved to London by myself didn't know anybody I was working on doing this great job. But also, it's never as glamorous as people think it is. And I remember, like, a year into the job,

a girl I worked with came up to me and said, God, wow, like, that was a big leap. Like, it could have gone terribly, like, moving to London by yourself. I'd just broken up with, like, my first boyfriend. Like, it was a real, you know, I was 22 and um and I went oh god yeah it was a big thing but a year had passed by so I only really thought about it afterwards the same right now I look at like everything I did last year and even like from 2020 working during lockdown doing shows like Love Island, coming into that after, like, and dealing with all the emotion,

how I got that job. And I think it was only now afterwards, coming out of it, I'm like, wow, I probably was better off not realising I was in it at the time. Right, yes. And it's only coming out afterwards, I'm like, I've kind of experienced it and gone through it, but I didn't realise I was doing that at the time.

Yeah, different ways of processing things, I suppose. Actually, on that note, what was it like doing the play? I said it's a 2.22. I loved it. Did you? Yeah. Was that quite a different headspace to...? Yeah, it is and it isn't.

There's such a link, especially with theatre. I've done theatre before, but not West End. And I guess it comes to that live thing again. Like, that live buzz and that that feeling what was different about that i guess it was the rehearsal time i found really special i really enjoyed the rehearsal time and the creativity we could have even with a fixed script what you could do with that and it was a very small cast of four people and i felt very safe and I think coming off a really big show where there's so many people involved it was really I think for me really important to do that and then having this routine

of when I although I was doing eight shows a week I just had this routine of knowing what I was doing every day and I had my daytimes here which is the perfect actually for having a child of age and then in the evenings I would like just pop into the West End and do a play and then come home it was lovely yeah I really enjoyed it was it I can't imagine doing for me like the idea of doing a play I think sometimes I'd love it and sometimes I'd suddenly get a bit freaked out I'm so used to having music as giving me the shape of I it's like putting on a cape or something yeah yeah so that whether ever times you sort of can i mean you can hear yourself talking in this room and it's like suddenly become quite aware of the moment yeah but then what my fear of doing it was was that would it become not samey

because you're doing the same thing every day but i feel like you're each show was so different yeah and again it's that live audience yeah and the chemistry between every every little nuance isn't it and it would change and stuff would change in it and it was a very safe environment and I had a very lovely experience doing that um but it wasn't it wasn't tense it was I had that routine for a while. And I actually quite liked the, like my character wasn't like very glamorous. And I'd come off like doing live telly where I was super glamorous

and like celebrity juice and love all that. And I was like dolled up. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go back to like strip it down a bit. And then I did that for 18 weeks. I went, do you know what? I kind of want to be dolled up again for a little bit. Let's do a bit more telly for a bit.

And I think I need, I like having both. And the same with doing the doc series, that was stripped back to a whole other way. And I don't think I could ever do one thing, which is why I find it difficult when people try to put you in a box going, oh, this is different for you. Are you going to just do this now?

And I'm like, well, no, I'm never just going to do one thing. I'm going to constantly, hopefully evolve. Yeah. I think actually generally speaking um we're a lot more open to all of that than than probably that's like the best time actually to be kind of quite open to different things and having lots of different I think you kind of have to yeah that's actually true that's true I remember like um it's probably about 15 years ago now when people started if they were chatting to me about I don't know a new album they said and what

else have you got going and I'd be like no no just the album I realized like I'm supposed to have like a song and what's up next and what's up next I'm just trying to do this at the moment I haven't done anything else yeah yeah no it's like okay let's see what how many other things can you put there um but I think it's actually um I was actually thinking of what your perception is of how you know because you were saying that you didn't want to be the mum, but do you think, generally speaking, the perception of being a woman who happens to be raising a child whilst doing a job has changed a lot since you started?

I think it's a very different generation to, like, my mother's generation and, again, from my my mom's mom my granny um what she had to deal with so I feel really lucky for like all the women who've come before me that have allowed me to kind of work in the space the way I have um and I'm very I think maybe having a kid a little bit older um I I'm very sure of what I want and then and I can kind of knock back any of those negative thoughts that come at me it's still I remember I found it really because I'm so protective of my child I was not putting pictures of her online because I was told if I did then the paps were able to take pictures of her outside the house and it's and it's I don't really understand the

logistics and legalities but there there are and I was trying to work my head around until I could kind of work out what that meant and how I could control I didn't want to do anything around it so then I wouldn't put up any pictures and then I'd get comments sometimes going where's your baby or you're never with your baby I'm like well I am I just haven't put a picture of her on Instagram and then I'm like oh maybe I should like lean a little bit that to show that there's a child there because people will think that I'm never with my child. And that does affect you sometimes because you people, oh, do people think I'm not a good mom? And I don't put pictures of her, but even something, I remember once,

this is when I first had her, in the background there was her pram. She wasn't even in the picture. She was, like, with a friend. And there was, like, a blanket over the pram. And someone was like, you're not supposed to have the blanket over the pram and someone was like you're not supposed to have the blanket over the baby and I was like she's not even in the picture and I was like and I was like I actually mentally can't put any pictures of her up because I can't deal with people's opinions of how I'm raising her yeah and I and I I know that um I'm not able to take it on because as sure as I am of myself I can't deal with all that because everyone will have an opinion

and as strong as I am it does affect you yeah well I think it sounds like you've got good self-awareness because I suppose that goes back to when you're working in news and you said I can't actually I'm too sort of porous for this like yeah it's sometimes I think those those voice particularly if you have got you know your Instagram is obviously a big workspace and it's um and it's not fully I think because I put up glamorous pictures I'm like that's not how I look right now that's not and I'm like do I need to put a little bit more real stuff I also don't have time the way I you know I don't have the time but it is I I do I'm constantly having these internal conversations with myself about identity but do you think that it's quite instinctive how you felt about the sort of boundaries you wanted to create around your

private life yeah and I think that was from watching other women around me um I think I've had a really interesting insight into this industry coming from the person who interviews people so my first job like no one cared about me because they cared about the person I was interviewing so I started out in MTV where like I interviewed you, I interviewed, I did Katy Perry's like first UK interview, like when she was first coming out with like I Kissed a Boy, like back those days and Lily Allen, when she was like first coming out with her music and like Amy Winehouse was around

and I'd see all these like brilliant, talented women, but I'd see also how I'd video Britney Spears and I'd just see how the media would attack them and use any personal stuff about them that was out there against them. And if they were in a relationship and that's why I was always really cautious about my private life

because I was always afraid if your relationship's out there and you break up then you have to deal with this breakup publicly. And I've just, I saw other women being torn down and because of that, it scared the shit out of me. So when I start getting a little bit more interest, people were interested in me because they weren't at all at the start.

Then I was like, okay, I've seen what happened with these, so I'm going to be a little bit more cautious and try and control it a bit more. Yeah, and those things are so bespoke, aren't they? Because there's things that, I'm sure there's loads of stuff that I would put up that people would think, oh, that's too much. But then there's other things I see.

It's how you deal with it. It's like, what can you deal with? And you have control over what you put up. Yes, definitely. And also, as you said, the idea of anyone, if I put a picture up of the kids where you can really see them and if anyone says anything,

that would get right to my core. So I'm just like, no. My friend put up a picture of her baby and someone had a comment going, oh, your baby's really fast. And I was like get right to my core so I'm just like yeah no my my friend put up a picture of her baby and someone had a comment going oh your baby's really fast and I was like oh my god are we body shaming babies do you know what I mean I was just like I can't I'm not I can't I'll take it myself but you come for my child I come for you yeah it's funny isn't it that kind of like slight like tigress oh I remember like when I first had her. And also, it was still lockdown, so it was a really weird time where everyone was at home,

but there wasn't events happening. And I think there was definitely a few more photographers around because they had nowhere else to go. And I remember, like, I'd get pictured going into it when I was doing radio at BBC. And I never mind, I saw workspaces, but outside your house is a different level. And I didn't realise, and I saw a lens of a guy in a car and I can't remember was she in the pram or something and I

just went over to him and Ian was like no Laura I was like I just went straight up to him and I just I think I took a picture because and also he was parked in an illegal place I'm like do you know what if I can't get him the council can get him and Ian was that he just saw he saw me go red and he was like no Laura and I'm like no and he was there, he just saw me go red and he was like, no, no. And I'm like, no. And he's like, no, you do what you need to do. He's like, she's in protective mode. Let her out.

Yeah, it's funny how that just comes out of you. Yeah, it is. It's so animalistic. Yes, it is. Yeah, it's just like a natural instinct that's there and you will protect at all costs. I know, yeah. It comes from quite a, like, you know, you read stories about, like like people being able to lift cars off their kids and things like yeah I love this like superhuman yeah I can I can imagine yeah you would you just get and it's you don't know if you'll be

that person when you're pregnant but you do it just takes over yeah it does and I was thinking it's really sweet when you said about your mum now and how like you can the relationship with your child is such an ongoing long one I think as I said before you sort of put so much focus on when they're small but actually like all these layers of you come out and actually when you were saying about you know when your kids are like two or three and people always talk about their personality coming out but I always think the same is happening as a parent and like you know the things about you know what's important in your family house and what's your, where your moral compass is and all these things,

they all start developing more and more because it's so binary, the baby bit, but it gets broader and broader. So like, you know, the relationship now that you have with your folks will be much more nuanced and rainbow, you know, than when you were just small and just needed to make sure you were fed

and watered and all those things. And then I just have such a deeper understanding for like my mum and my dad now and um like respect for like what what they did and uh and also I live in a time now where we do have a little bit more help and understanding we're talking about like you know we have things called like lactation nurses and we didn't have that. Like, my mom didn't have people like that. And we definitely talk more about our bodies. And I may not be saying all this stuff online, but I tell you, I'm talking to my friends about it, like, in a way that maybe wasn't happening before.

So I kind of looked to my mom and my dad and they weren't together, but my dad was always so great with me as a kid. And at that time, very few dads would, like, take their kid by, like, he would take me overnight by himself. Like, he would, and he's great. We have a kid and would very at that time very few dads would like take their kid but like he would take me overnight by himself like he would um and he's great we have a great relationship now and it's only now I'm like oh god that was back then particularly like in the 90s like that was but not many men were doing that my dad you know considering he it was he wasn't living with me and my parents weren't together he was as involved as he could be yeah that's

really lovely yeah and it's nice to see and um i think i'm really lucky that ian has that as well i think ian's very good and very hands-on like oh you're so lucky that you know he's so good i'm like well he's not he's doing his job like that's it's 50 50 we still have that thing i know men are so great but um i just because of my dad being like that i just it's expectation definitely my my personal bugbear is when people say like if the if the dad's looking after they say they're babysitting i know i'm not looking after their own child yeah i'm not paying them by the hour no no oh god um i'm actually doing flax stock in a couple of weeks and you kind of alluded to your start with yeah they love islands i just wanted to say I was when I was looking back over everything I cannot imagine how hard

it must have been that bit where you started doing Love Island and had to handle that series and you handled it amazingly and just we don't have to elaborate on it but I just was so impressed with you it must have been a extraordinary intense and hard heartbreaking chapter That was what I was saying earlier on about you don't realise until you've gone through it. I think that was like survival mode, maybe. And it was, you're kind, yeah, it's trying to balance it and be respectful and do things the right way. And I still, I think it'll take me years

to fully process what happened in that time. And you take over this really glamorous entertainment show. And I had taken over from Caroline when she did I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here Now. She was a friend. We had that relationship. We talked during that time. And that's another reason why I'm probably so protective in many ways

because Caroline was so lovely and open about everything and gave so much of herself away and i think sometimes that could tear you apart a little bit um and i i found it really hard because i went from being on the outside to suddenly being in it yeah um and it changed from what i thought i was doing being one thing to being this other thing and then I'll never forget the final live show I had to do after she passed away and it's like okay it's an entertainment show you got to keep it up and beaten it's about this but we also have to talk about Carol and I'm like I'm like how do you balance that what's the right thing to do and be respectful for the family and be respectful to Caroline, but also do your job

and you've got all this expectation on you. And I remember the one thing, and I'm really proud I did this, I just, I said to everyone around me, can I do it my way? Can I just, and I remember speaking on radio being like, can I just do this? I don't want anyone else to tell me what I should do. Can I just do this what I feel is the right thing to do? And I think sometimes you have to follow your gut in that yeah but I don't think I am fully over all that time I don't think I fully digested

but I did what all I could do with that to get through it um and and I think that still has affected me today and how I am with things and how I am issues and how I am quite protective um and and it's just and even now I think there's a lot of things that trigger me um when I see how people have talked about online even comments I got about myself and I saw those comments written about Caroline when she was doing the show I was like oh my god like I'm being brought into this and how this culture that we have an attack of different people, particularly in the public eye. And I find that still triggering and I'm still trying to work. Do I step back if I see that or how do I react? Um, and, and I guess it's for me, Caroline,

I like, I want to remember Caroline for the times when I, we hung out together and we went to glass and green and all those fun times because that's her legacy. Yes. And I'm trying to move on from the tough times. Yes, I suppose it's a bit of a prism, isn't it? Because you've got the, you know, there's obviously your sort of, I suppose a lot of it leads back to your journalistic brain as well, looking at the, you know at the ramifications in culture and how that language is being used

and how people are affected by what's written online. And obviously the overwhelming message that came out after Caroline died was about be kind, be kind, be kind. And sometimes even that gets a bit weaponised. It gets used, yeah. Because I remember once calling out a journalist and then they were like, oh, be kind. I'm like, well, I'm not having, I'm just saying

they've done something about my child and I'm saying they can't do that. That's not me not being kind. And I do, you have to be careful we don't weaponize it as well. And also don't use someone else, especially someone else so close to me. Yes.

Against me. And I think we need to be really careful what triggers we're using. Yeah, and that's what I wanted to say to you. I thought you did such an amazing, I can't imagine how tough that must be because I know you were really good friends. I once was in the teepee extortion at Glastonbury.

I could hear all the giggles and dancing and everything. And that's how I remember Caroline. And I just feel, I feel sad as well because I probably wasn't as close to her near the end um and also I was because I remember calling in our single days and we'd be like out together and then I was like in a relationship and I wasn't probably going out as much and then you just kind of wonder what happened how did we get from this to this and then you get a little bit of um like that guilt going I had no idea but also you kind of we move in different ways and I remember I

remember how supportive she was for me to do the show um and that meant a lot because I just felt I had her trust that way and I I had no idea how bad it was going to get and I'm like I don't know if and that's something like a lot of her friends and family have to deal with as well probably much more than I have to and at some point you kind of have to not forgive yourself but move on from that because otherwise you just never get out of that dark hole yeah and also it's extraordinary it's not like it's something where there's a precedent for that I mean that's a very complicated situation with loads of different things being affected in your professional life your personal life yeah you know um it's it's multi-layered yeah so I think your instinct seems to be something that is what actually sees you right with a lot of how to handle these things

because that seems to be something you've fallen back on with tons of stuff you found yourself where it's a new situation yeah you're like okay how are we going to deal with this one and actually I was going to ask you if it was your own words because I thought it was really yeah and you know I'm so surprised I remember I had a show the next day on radio and my producer rang me and says you don't have to come in tomorrow and I was like I think I need to come in tomorrow if I'm honest and I also knew this is a horrible thing to think about but I was like no one will leave me alone until I say something and I want to say it my way and then have said it yeah and I just I didn't want to have people trying to get something from me because it did it happened like people wanted a picture of you crying or people want a

picture of you or something saying something or if you haven't said something then you don't care and yeah I remember just messing around with you so I'm going to come in tomorrow we had I had lovely people in the studio with me that day who I felt safe with um and I don't even think they looked at I remember writing out what I wanted to say but no one changed it no one said I know like that you say what you need to say and then I remember just like turning my phone off and like disappearing for like the week yeah that's the right thing to have people say they don't need to check what you're going to write but we live in we live in a world where people try to like put words in your mouth.

And I was like, these are my words. And I can't, and now I don't even look and think about, I don't even know what I said. I can't even remember because it just felt like that's what it was at the moment. But it feels like so long ago and yet not. It's still there. Yeah, it's recent. But I think you've talked a lot about having that safety of who's around you and I think that's one of the things that experience brings you isn't it of

like knowing like I want to have these good people around me and everyone else can sort of fade away like so long as you've got that good counsel yeah support yeah there's good people it all kind of comes back to that doesn't it I think something that you'll relate to is just like family um and having your bubble around you and I'm so grateful of like my happy safe home um and you can kind of you get you go off and you do whatever your jobs and it's fun and we're lucky but it's a lot of high pressure and then you just come home and you just like be silly and you've got your little safe space and you've got your girlfriends to rant about things and moan about things that you don't have to you know I don't need to things and moan about things that you don't have to, you know,

I don't need to rant and moan online because that's what I do with my friends. Absolutely. And have all those conversations. Yeah. And I think that's, the trouble is if you don't have that. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

But I think actually, you know, you've got the juxtaposition of 2020 and the shock and all of the things you, you know, you say you're still processing yeah and then the next year 2021 where you found yourself like having your baby yeah and then COVID yeah yeah and then you just it makes it probably does bring on the next level of appreciation yeah I think I've grown a lot and I'm definitely I feel I should be weaker but I'm stronger and I know like I'm really clear on what

I want to do what I don't want to do and speaking up for myself when I have to in a way that probably Laura 10 years ago wouldn't um and I'm grateful for that like I feel like I've yeah I feel strong coming through I feel strong this year I feel stronger than I thought I would because I should feel weak oh well no cheers to that and um. And I really appreciate you letting me come into your cocoon. Thank you for coming. It's been very lovely. I'm going to finish my tea. I know the Irish thing is to make those cups of tea

and then leave them half done. And you're having Irish tea bags. They're Lion's Girl blend. That's very good. You've made it the same colour as my French in aid. I know this is the right way. It's all very proper. Have you seen that when you've got the colour chart

to see which tea you are. So that's a classic Irish. It is. It's perfect. Thank you. And thank you to Mick. Has he fallen asleep? Have I bored you?

He's not asleep. No, he's listening. I was listening. He's content. He's been having some nice strokes. He's all good. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Aw, thank you to Laura. What a lovely conversation in her beautiful home with a lovely very well made cup of tea in front of me perfect so I told you it was a really nice chat really proper and in that time that that's I've been listening to that i've i've nearly finished i've done one two three out of four kids my eldest can do himself uh probably others can too but i don't really trust them so yeah i'm getting on with it and i think i've not got much to do for me actually i mean the thing about summer holidays is when you get there you don't really wear much do you it's like swimsuits shorts t-shirts couple of dresses done right it's funny I don't know about you but I used to pack for holidays as if I was sort of someone else on holiday so I'd take things I never wear anywhere else I think I've got better at going no let's actually pack

for the person I am and now I actually like to dress yeah, mainly I just can't wait to be there. It's going to be so nice. I've got three gigs between me and doing nothing for 10 days. And I'm really, really ready for it. Bring it on. I hope you've managed to have a break at some point in this summer. It does feel nice. I used to not really have holidays. I used to just sort of push on and book in work

and then get to the end of the year and just sort of have the odd little break here and there that would sort of plug some gaps, but not really have holidays. They used to just sort of push on and book in work and then get to the end of the year and just sort of have the odd little break here and there that would sort of plug some gaps, but not really. And you know what? You don't win any prizes. Nobody says to you at the end of the year, congratulations, you didn't have a holiday. That's really dedicated of you.

You just think, oh, that's a bit silly. So Richard and I now are much, much better at just booking in the holiday and saying to work, don't tell us if any work comes in. We don't want to know about it. We just need a break. And the kids are so excited too. So that's cute. Anyway, I will speak to you on the other side and have a lovely week in the meantime. And here's hoping that the UK weather perks up a tiny bit because it's been nonstop rain. i'm not digging that so yeah a little bit of sunshine be good please all right i will speak to you soon i've got another lovely

guest for you next week thanks so much to laura to my producer claire to editor richard who i'm also married to so thanks for all of the above thanks to ella may for the artwork mainly as always thank you to you for lending me your ears. Lots of love. Peace. Thank you.