Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 110: Dilly Carter

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Dilly Carter is an expert in decluttering who presents the TV show 'Sort Your LIfe Out' alongside Stacey Solomon. Born in Sri Lanka, she was adopted and then brought up in the UK, and is very positive about the cards she was dealt. However, her childhood home was chaotic, with her parents at work all hours, and when Dilly was 11 her mum was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. During her childhood Dilly found peace when she frequently spent time at a neighbour's more ordered home. It was also at this point that she discovered her love of tidying and organising people's houses.Dilly has a 9 year old daughter who also sounds incredibly tidy and organised and she and Dilly operate on a one thing in, one thing out policy in her bedroom, so it never becomes cluttered.Following her recent cancer diagnosis, and a subsequent hysterectomy, Dilly is keen to encourage people with busy working lives like her, to prioritise their health. She is also an ambassador for Adoption UK.As you will hear, Dilly is a very positive person. I was worried she'd be traumatised by visiting my house which is brimming with objects and knick-knacks, but she was very kind about it. She clearly suspects I have too many clothes - but I haven't let her look in my wardrobe yet!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Greetings from Saturday morning. The soundtrack to this is provided by Ray.

He's on the piano. It's all right, Ray, I'm just talking about this week's podcast. He's trying to learn the Halloween theme, Michael Myers theme. He's coming on pretty well, actually. It's quite fun. So, yeah, we have reached the last episode of the series, which is exciting.

It's been such a brilliant 10. Again, I've had a lovely time. Some amazing conversations. And I have finished this series with someone who I think... You know when you see those women on TV and you're like, I wish I had one of those people in my life? Well, I thought I would invite the original into my life, Dilly Carter.

So I have been watching Sort your life out with stacy solomon the bbc show for ages now actually really works on me i like the way that they approach it so what it is it's a decluttering show and we're not talking about people who've got like bits and bobs around the house we're talking about people where the function of their daily lives is i'm gonna get dressed all right ray soon yeah go and get dressed it's all right of course done absolutely um that's right i have to get dressed uh it's saturday morning just so you know um yes in the show is people whose daily the daily function of their lives is completely um prohibited by the amount of chaos and clutter that's their

house and sometimes it presents quite well like people might have you know their kitchen looks all right but then when you start open cupboards and drawers it's just madness in there and then obviously some people where it's just rooms full of stuff piled up things that aren't being dealt with things they can't get rid of. You know, you might have a family where they've got quite grown up kids and the parents have kept hold of everything since childhood. So the house is just overrun. People are often sleeping in weird ways as a result of all the stuff that's in the house, that kind of thing. Dilly is the woman who comes in with a very calm, non-judgmental, practical, pragmatic view. She just says, right,

let's make sure you keep all the stuff that makes you happy and works for you. We get rid of the rest. So people say, take all of the stuff out of the house, these people, put it all in a warehouse, lay it all out on the floor, categorize it, and then get rid of sometimes half, sometimes two thirds of what they have. I would quite enjoy that. I'm not going to lie. There'd be things, I'd have weird categories. I have categories like majorette costumes from the 1950s. Ice skater outfits.

Just, you know, random weirdness. I would keep all those things just so you know. But yeah, it's a good show. And every time I've watched it it makes me do a bit more and I've now got a very good pile of things behind the sofa in the sitting room waiting to go to the charity shop and I'm going to keep on going I'm in one of those moods where I'm just getting rid of stuff anyway so Dilly came around to see me and what was extraordinary about Dilly and you will hear it from her and she explains it very well is I first wanted to speak

to her because I loved her on the tv and then as i got to know her through her instagram i realized there was so many more layers to this lady um from her childhood she's born in sri lanka adopted at three to a family here uh sri lankan uh british dad uh white british mother um and so raised in a family that was chaotic you will hear about this the home itself lots of love but definitely a tilted foundation in terms of how the home life was functioning and she has a little girl who is nine nearly ten and in her quest to attempt to have another baby she had several years of infertility and has now subsequently in the last 18 months found out some pretty pretty shocking and probably quite devastating news about her health but she is now on the other side and on the road to recovery and actually from where I stood is

brimming with good health she actually one of those people that really radiates all the good stuff but um I won't say too much because Dilly explains it so well but um yeah a really good chat and uh plus she's definitely kept me on the good path with the decluttering which I really hope I stick to because lord knows I need it all right see you in a minute well it's so nice to meet you Dilly thank you thank you for coming over and when I first asked you to come to my house my image was that I was going to have you arrive and then I was basically going to stay just sort of like like seal you in so that you couldn't leave until my house was looking a bit more better but such is your magic that actually I have found myself

under a sort of spell of decluttering since I knew we were going to meet oh so thank you it's but I've actually been really enjoying myself I love that I love that I love that you're under my spell yeah I don't know if I'd have liked to have been locked in but I mean your house is insanely beautiful and actually it's one of those houses that instantly I felt at home when I walked in um but it's beautiful it's eclectic it's colorful it's all the things that we should enjoy about our house. And although you said, you know, I've got lots of stuff, look at this, but it's always a collection of beautiful things. And I think that's the lesson that we always need to learn is there's a difference between being a collector of something and having too much stuff and having a lot of clutter. You know, your collection of things is beautifully

organised, you know, and like you said, you know, you know where everything is, you know your collection of things is beautifully organized you know and like you said you know you know where everything is you know everything has a place but it's it it looks amazing your house so you know no need to lock me in yes that would have been a horrible start for you to any sort of podcast chat i can see that but also i'm beaming because basically you provided me a lovely bit of audio that i'm going to reserve as a clip standalone clip to play to my family whenever they can play like an expert has said look it's a beautifully curated amount of things yes it absolutely is it's beautifully and very tastefully done thank you well today is a good day but I do think I'm constantly on the brink of and sometimes do get overwhelmed by stuff. And does it surprise you how much people struggle with stuff generally? I think so. It never ceases to amaze me how much stuff people do have,

how much people buy. And, you know, people that live in studio flats or people that live in 15-bed mansions, it's incredible how much people spend on stuff. And I think when you look at the show, that's why it's been so powerful because seeing everybody's stuff laid out like that makes you think, if that was my house, what would we have the most of? You know, actually, that isn't that bad. We've got 25 chargers. We've got 200 pairs of shoes. We've got, you know, 3,000 bits of kids' artwork. We've got 200 soft toys shoes we've got you know 3 000 bits of kids artwork we've got

200 soft toys so you suddenly start looking at this and think these people aren't that bad so what it does is relate and i think there's never been a show like it that doesn't make you feel more inclusive more included and actually this is this is most people and I think more people are living in chaos living with clutter than aren't and I think we just always think don't we to we look at our friends we we imagine how our friends houses are or if we haven't been there or how everyone else looks you know especially Instagram social media we think all these celebrities oh my goodness they must live in immaculate houses unless we see them or they're living like this, they're living like that. And often or not, you only see a glimpse, don't you? We all see that glimpse. No one really sees their spare rooms. No one really sees where

all the stuff is going. I mean, can you imagine how much stuff some of the, you know, high-end celebrity type Kim Kardashians, there is a garage somewhere with all the crap that they don't want, you know, that goes somewhere. And that's what we have to remember. You know, no one is perfect. Everyone lives in chaos in some way. Yeah, Instagram that, Kim, if you're listening. I mean, I think what you've actually hit the nail on the head about the show, so Sort Your Life Out is how I was introduced to you. And I love the programme.

I've watched every episode. And you're right, because it's very non-judgmental. Absolutely. And I think that's a really brilliant thing that isn't actually at the heart of all those programs that have gone before no where people walk in and go oh how are you living like this yeah it's very warm it's it's kind of just saying like I can see as a family or as a couple or as an individual that you're starting to feel like you don't even know where to begin with this stuff absolutely and it is how we're living and and there was one there was an episode recently where a dad was saying oh I've bought like loads of these but it's because

sometimes I can't find one so I just go like and I go on my phone and I can just order another one and it's here tomorrow and I've definitely done that so I want to try and organize it so I actually know where stuff is absolutely and that's what most people do do you know when you can't find something you think oh I'll just buy another one because it's so easy isn't it it's so easy to buy something and it'd be here if not by 10 tonight by 10 a.m tomorrow that's scary you know we never used to be able to do that we used to have to wait to want something think about music you know we had to get wait for to go to walworths to go and buy a cd for wait for it to get there to be in the top 10 be in the charts and there was so much joy wasn't there with that waiting for saturday and that was your weekend thing you wait for your pocket money you go to the store

you buy your cd you buy your cassette your vinyl whatever it is you saved up but now everything is instant and that's the problem you know as a consumer it's become a problem for us you know we're the ones suffering you know the companies are profiting look at amazon you know look at what's his name jeff bazo whatever his name is um you know he's profiting all the companies that are on amazon any any shops you know it just there's so much to be earned in products uh whereas before it wasn't you know it was much harder to buy things and you know we didn't have as much disposable income so we waited and it was actually a joy wasn't it to wait i think as well it's private because you can be private about your consumption yes because the thing you were

talking about with music is the same with as you say everything else where before to pledge allegiance or even interest mark interest in a band or an act meant that you had to go to the shop and request that song. And it was already, it wasn't like a, it was quite an active thing to go and say, right, I'm going to actually, you know, pay my money and own that song. Whereas now you can kind of dip your toe in things. But at home as well, I mean, I've definitely bought Jeff Bezos, like, I don't know, a couple of chairs on his yacht or whatever he's got. Because, you know, you can just be oh yeah I'll buy

that I'll buy that and I'm not sure I need that but oh it's not that expensive I'll quickly buy again and I think when I've been listening to you talk about decluttering you were talking about sometimes the fact that you've had a financial transaction with something also means it can be quite hard to get rid of things because you'll think oh well I've paid for that and it's still good for something. And what do I do with it anyway? So just store it. That's the problem. And then there's a storage, isn't there? You know, some people have storage. It's not just their homes that have been turned into storage.

It's actual excess storage. So many people have storage units full of stuff they just don't know what to do with. And I often call our spare rooms, our lofts and and our garages places where decisions can't be made that's the things where all the decisions we don't know what to do with go into that room you know what should we do this guitar i don't know let's put it in the spare room what should we do with this uh hoverboard i don't know put it in the spare room what should we do with these clothes i'm not sure about put it in the spare room put it in the loft put it in the garage oh and actually now we've run out of space there let's go and pay a thousand pound a month for some storage unit yeah how many people have a storage unit full of stuff that just it's just ticking over ticking over ticking over by the time you get to that storage unit

you're like why was i keeping all this you know what do i actually need to keep it for so we have to try and have that same feeling about our lofts and garages you know really our garages should only be things like car related sports related you know garden related barbecue related they're the things that should be in the garage not you know old furniture you know suitcases things that don't belong piles of clothes bags records cds you know these are things that don't belong in there they're things that you can either sell or donate so we have to learn to make decisions and be more ruthless. But we all struggle, whether it's emotional, whether it's financial, sentimental. What is it?

You know, we struggle. So that's why they stay there. It's so true. I love that idea of these rooms where decisions can't be made. It's just like a kind of, oh, just put it in there. I've got cupboards, rooms, an attic, all that sort of thing that is exactly that. Yeah. And, you know, for anyone who hasn't seen Sort Your Life Out,

so basically families, people empty their entire home. Yeah. Literally everything. Every single thing. Into a huge warehouse. Yes. Where it is then categorised and marked out with these beautiful neon bits of tapes. You can see it all laid out.

Yeah. And there's always the moment where people walk in and see their life like that and they're like is that really everything that was surrounding us for all that time absolutely it's crazy it plays into a fantasy I've had for years where I imagine everything I own on a conveyor belt in front of me that's yeah what was that game show generation game yeah I imagine that like everything's going I'm like oh that's the head of that toy and oh that's where's where that went. And oh golly, I didn't know I still had that. And that's where I had it. So your show is the closest to that image of that,

that's sort of like, there it all is. And what do you think you'd have the most of? What would be your biggest section? Oh golly, I mean, I'm a maximalist and I live, I'm quite a happy shopper, it has to be said. I've got my mum's shopping jean. I mean, clothes has got to be way up there shoes clothes also i sort of prided myself on keeping things for really long i've even got

makeup i bought as a teenager deli it's quite runs quite fast the intervention might still need to occur um we could do a celebrity would you be happy to go on there yeah you know what i'd be thrilled however i will know if they put some of these carefully curated items back in the wrong place that you need a lot of bubble wrap um because i specialize in buying things other people have decided they don't want anymore love vintage stuff love second hand so a lot of it's fragile broken whatever you but yeah do it i would happily sign I think whoever comes to pack up myself would have it like they need to sit down for adding some smelling salts it's a lot of boxes so clothes is your problem it's definitely up there yeah because um if you

like vintagey things then you have this thing where you're like I'm never going to see it again it's now or never yeah and I feel like sometimes I'm buying things for a version of myself that doesn't yet exist or an event I have not been invited to just in case just in case just in case wardrobe okay so if you ever have a fancy dress party coming up yeah call me you're the person probably sort you out brilliant okay so you're buying for things that you don't even know you might need but then sometimes I do so then you're grateful and for things that you don't even know you might need. But then sometimes I do. So that's the problem. And I feel like you don't win any prizes for getting rid of something you later realise you needed.

No. But, you know, it's always down to space. That's what you have to think. And that's what I always try and remind people. It's fine. Have a house full of stuff. Have a kitchen full of stuff. Have, you know, a playroom full of stuff. Have a garage, a loft, a a house full of stuff have a kitchen full of stuff have you know a play room full of stuff have a garage a loft a storage room full of stuff but if you haven't got the

space then why have you got that stuff so if your wardrobes are over spilling keep all those clothes if you know if they're if your wardrobes are over spilling then you haven't really got the space if you have then you know fine if you've got 12 wardrobes full of clothes and you've got the space and none of those clothes are in your loft, none are in the garage, none have been stored anywhere else, then absolutely, it's fine to have a clothes addiction. But if they are overspilling...

There are my body languages gone all small. There may be, you know... I've already had a look upstairs as to where this is coming from. You need to look. I mean, I uh as well sometimes when I am going through my wardrobe I feel a bit gross because I realize I've sort of you know given myself so many like spoils and I'm like this is a bit gross really because you do have

already like so many lovely things you're not getting the full use I genuinely feel like my teeth are going to break. I'm interrogating it. This was a bad idea this podcast wasn't it? But your relationship with decluttering goes back to your 20s you said is that right? Well yeah way before I feel like as a professional yeah as a professional yeah doing it as a profession and and actually it never was really a profession back when I started it there was you know no one really knew what it was even now it's still a new thing people are still like you do what go into people's houses and do what why would you do that sort of like there's a job for that people get paid for that I'm like yeah some people get paid a lot of money for it um but yeah it's I've been doing it since my 20s you know I used to spend every Sunday walking around all the wealthy estates putting my flyers through doors trying trying to get business going.

I can organise your kitchen, your loft, your garage or help you do your paperwork or whatever it is. And most people were connected to the admin side of it. So, OK, I get that. You know, I can be a PA. And so I sort of got my first job and then word of mouth, got another, then got another and sort of built myself up from that. But in the interim, I had some other jobs going on at the side and was, you know, until it really built. And then I got back with my husband and went to Australia, came back. And then I was like, right, this is what I definitely love. I need to keep doing it.

It will take off one day. Carry on just doing it. And then I think it was only about six years ago that I sort of transferred my business onto Instagram. You know, when it came, it might even be eight years ago. Who knows? Who knows where time goes? And my friend was like, you need to get on Instagram. You know, that's where it is. I was like, Instagram, what's that?

She's like, you should just, you know, talk about it. You're quite good at talking about what you do. Just tell people what you do and why you do it. And so I went on Instagram and just started talking about why we declutter the importance of it and it just grew from there and then it wasn't till 2020 that the TV show found me and then things just changed completely so it just went from being great to being amazing but also your instinct is amazing because actually as you said like so 20 years ago it wasn't really such a big thing but now it's huge people are obsessed with organizing organizing and you know you have I suppose this side of the pond it's sort your life

out in America it's the home meadow yes yeah I've obviously got Marie Kondo and all that she's done with I mean I went to see her do a talk once it was completely extraordinary my friend had a spur ticket and um she doesn't speak any English so she had a translator yeah it was a bit where she um folded a pair of socks so that they stood up on their own and the whole room clapped. And I was like, I don't really know where I am. This is a weird world. It was quite extraordinary. I love that.

It was really funny. I was like, yes. Yay for socks standing up on their own in that little foldy way. But in a way, I think her style of decluttering felt very uh still quite prescriptive I know she talked about finding the joy but I felt like you sort of want it was almost like you're doing it to make Marie Kondo happy with what you've done yes but I think where your heart seems to be and no disservice to her because obviously she has helped a lot of people too she's put everyone on a platform absolutely she's opened

up the industry incredibly. But I think with your thing, it seems to be more like, because I think, so I'm just thinking, when I talk to you next about your mum, because I feel like that's such a big keystone in the story of your relationship with your job. Yeah. But I also really want to talk about your daughter

because your little girl's about to be 10. I think I'll talk about that first because I want to know, it's such an obvious question but children bring with them first of all their own personalities but also things quite a lot of stuff yes so when you had your baby um nearly 10 years ago how did you feel about the influx of new things that come with that it was really interesting actually because you know I've never we've never had a house full of a huge amount of stuff. Both me and my husband are really ruthless. So, you know, it's rubbed off on him.

It's about time, isn't it? Yeah, really handy. We're both very good at, we're both very good at spending. We both love lovely things. What's your weakness then, Dylan? Trainers. Trainers? Okay, cool.

But I'm still good at, like, having my, you know, curated. I love, because I say it's curated. I've probably got a lot more trainers than most. And I'm going to a training convention on Saturday. You're going to a trainer convention? Yeah. I love a good pair of trainers. Do you put, like, spare ones in your bag to, like, change into every hour?

Yeah, that's it, because I don't want to get them too creased. Otherwise it's too much pressure on the one pair you wear to a trainer convention. I know. As soon as I got these tickets or got invited to this event i was like i mean my husband been like what are you gonna wear he's like i don't know what you're gonna wear yeah he's like well obviously i've got to wear these and i was like trainers wellies it's so funny you'll be the only one in the room oh can you imagine get talked about be great um but no i i think that's probably my weakness is trainers you know i find it hard to look at them and think,

oh, what am I going to switch over? You know, if something comes in, something should leave really, but which ones do I like the least? And so that's probably my weakness, but everything else. But even then, if someone told me you can only have one pair of trainers, I'd be like, okay, whatever. So I'm not emotionally attached to anything. So if my, and this sounds really harsh,

but I always think if my house were to burn down tomorrow and everything in it what would I save and I wouldn't care about any of it you know all that would matter would be my family my dog and safety you know we we should never be emotionally attached to anything you know there might be some things I think oh that's a bit sad that went but even in my house when I look around now there's nothing that I need you know I've got everything I need in my people so I don't need it in stuff so even jewellery I'm like whatever it doesn't matter if it goes so you know I just have never been that sentimentally attached to anything so with my daughter when things came in you know we'd buy her stuff you

know of course we'd spoil her she was our first child get whatever you want yeah you can have this you can have that but everything you know, of course, we'd spoil her. She was our first child, get whatever you want. Yeah, you can have this, you can have that. But everything was beautifully organised, of course. And everything was limited. So, you know, for the space that she had. I mean, there was probably one period, I'd say when she was six, seven, when there was an LOL obsession. Oh, yeah, they're funny those adults, aren't they? That was probably the hardest for me because that was, oh my gosh, there was, at the time, was that was probably the hardest for me because that was oh my gosh there was at the time it was lol and barbies at the same time so i had a barbie house two lol houses a thousand lols it was just i was up walked into a room in past tense does she not have any of this no no it's all gone by

the age of nine yeah she's gone out of that now so now she's very light she's almost like a teenager my husband's a bit not happy with that because she suddenly went from everything pink to now I want everything white white bedroom white walls pink this she's on her ipad and she she likes drawing so she's got a little arts and crafts corner and that's it she's the lol's obsession stopped and she's and she's very like me she's very good like we're having a clear out okay what we get rid of you go through your bedroom and she's not allowed to get anything new until she gets rid of something that i've taught her that from a really young age and also she's not allowed to do get anything unless she refolds her t-shirts or she sorts out her drawers or she rehangs her wardrobe so she has to in order for me to want to buy her something she has to do

something does she get scared when christmas is coming yeah i mean that's the only time yeah yeah that's the only time she you know she can get without asking but because kids want everything all the time and you know she can have things and i think that's the problem isn't it in this day and age when you know we can all buy our kids whatever they want mostly can't we and and it's nothing it's not a treat anymore as much so that's why i have to make her work for it or earn it. Or it's not just a given that, yeah, you want something, you can have it. Because I don't want her to grow up thinking that you can have everything you want with no type of lesson. I think, you know, it's important for her to realise that, you know, things don't just get handed to you easily.

So if you do have it, you have to work for it. You know, we've had to work hard to get everything we want in our life so why shouldn't you in terms of you also have to realize that money doesn't grow on trees yeah so you know mummy and daddy work all the time to make sure that you can have all these lovely things but you have to appreciate them so you know one in one out you know if you want a new pair of jeans great let's see what you've got in your wardrobe that can go you want a new jumper you want a new hoodie and the thing is kids clothes and things they want nowadays you know they're not like 10 quid they're like 50 60 quid hoodies or they're like a pair of night pro leggings which are 30 quid so it's not it's not cheap you know you're

buying five of them it soon adds up doesn't it yeah so i think you know it sounds like i'm really harsh but i'm a bit like yeah you can do it if you want it i'll buy it for you go and sort your room out you know you've got to keep on top of things you've got to do it and she will off she'll go she'll go i've done it i've redone my whole room and she's literally refolded all her socks organized her underwear you know refolded her hoodies and she you know she does it really well and she loves it so you know it works i think that's absolutely brilliant keeps it to a minimal i thought the intervention was about my clothes

but i think it's actually about wow the relationship i've encouraged my kids to have with stuff probably because i think there's so much value in all of that and the idea of her actually appreciating and having a relationship with what goes on in the transaction of actually getting something yeah whereas i think sometimes with kids, you don't talk to them about it because it kind of goes over their head, but you can always instill an idea of value, even if it's not directly, you know, something like an abstract notion of money.

Yeah. But they can understand about your time, about your work, about all these things. As they get older, it just becomes part of the fabric. Exactly. Of how they think of things. Yeah, they just have to realize that you know yes you can have these things and of course we want to buy you these things but it doesn't come without

something because you know I've had to work five hours 10 hours 12 hours 15 hours that day yeah in order to give you that thing or to to put towards that thing you know we both work hard we're both working parents all the time so it doesn't just just get given to you. So what are you going to do if you want something new? Because what I want her to do is I want her to work like I did, have a part time job, go to college, go to university. I don't want her to think that she can't do anything for the rest of her life and she's just going to, you know, get a job and do this. And, you know, I don't know. I want her to realise the value of money because I think kids don't realise the value of money anymore. I think, you know, it's really hard, isn't it, to instil, like you said, good lessons to them, to teach them about the value of things.

And, you know, even with the show, you know, it's showing... Look at what the show teaches children. You have got 3,000 toys, you know, and when they get asked to choose their toys they want what do they choose a handful because it's too much it's overwhelming so it's great to have loads of things but a have the space for it b know the value of it and c know that it's not just going to a given that you're going to get more of it so it's about just thinking okay do you know what we need to start changing the way that we buy our children toys we need to make sure sure that, you know, they're only going to get this, they will get it,

but, you know, you've got to do something for it. Or you have to at least realise that there is some sort of value to it. It's not just a, here's all your Christmas presents. And I think more and more now, especially in the last few years, we're trying to teach children about experiences, aren't we? More about giving experiences rather than gifts. Or you have one really big expensive present at Christmas rather than 30 small ones.

You know, okay, you want a new iPad, you want a new laptop, you want this or you want that. That's a huge amount of money. If you're going to get that, then you're only getting something smaller. Whereas before, you know, especially as we were, you know, in my younger years years it was all about quantity all about volume wasn't it how many presents you can fit under the tree and people spend excessive amounts on their children at Christmas you know people have like 30 presents

each on their kids at Christmas and you're like oh my god you know and and most of it is just isn't it yeah it's just stuff that you're like oh it's like the Donald's toy level you're like oh god you know that's the first thing you clear. Same with us in fast fashion. You know, the first things we get out of our wardrobe are the things that cost the least. So if we were to go and have a wardrobe clear out, the things that you're going to get rid of and chuck in the black bag are all the things that cost the less. The things that you've invested money in, the things that you've really saved up to get, the things that you really cherish, you know, the vintage jacket you found that actually it was a one-off,

they're the things you're never, ever going to throw out. But the things that you've just bought from Zara, the things that you bought cherish, you know, the vintage jacket you found that actually it was a one-off, they're the things you're never ever going to throw out. But the things that you've just bought from Zara, the things that you bought from the High Street, things you bought from ASOS, all of those places that are cheap, fast fashion, well, you know, they're the ones that will go quickly because they're the lesser. They're the ones that you don't care about. And it's the same with the kids toys, you know, the really good quality things, the things that are lovely, the things that last, the things that stand the test of time, they're're the ones that stay but the other ones that are cheap just end up getting put in a in a bin it's so true and i'm as i'm listening to you everything you're saying is is very sensible and i keep thinking about the fact that your childhood from as i understand

it was very different so you're like the first new generation of raising your kid the way you are because it sounds like how you started out was very different. So as I understand, you were adopted when you were only three. Yes, yeah. And then your mum had quite a chaotic home. She suffered bipolar and it was quite a turbulent childhood, like lots of love but quite a lot of chaos around you absolutely yeah so I suppose what what do what your memories of all of that and how how where are the similarities maybe with how you're raising your daughter I think the similarities with my my daughter

definitely so my mum and dad basically I spent very little time with them growing up so I never had a lot we never celebrated Christmas because they were so busy so they barely put up a Christmas tree you might get one or two presents at Christmas so that's why I was always very quality over quantity growing up and actually from a very young age which I thank my mum for was that it was very much quality over quantity so I was always the most the one at school that had the first of everything you know but I had the most expensive things I was the first one to the one at school that had the first of everything, you know, but I had the most expensive things. I was the first one to have a mobile phone, first one to shop in Oasis,

first one to go to Caramillan. I was, I always had the best of everything, but I only went shopping a couple of times a year. So my mum would take me once every few months or once every six months. And my dad would take me to Topshop in Oxford Street and he'd sit there on his briefcase, fall asleep, give me his card and go, buy whatever you want. But it was only once a year he'd do that. So I'd sort of buy seasonal, you know, or like buy in big chunks and then not again for months and months and months.

So everything had to last. Everything had to be quality. Everything was, you know, not every week. So that's sort of how I was brought up because they didn't enjoy shopping. They didn't go out shopping much. So when when they did they'd buy me really lovely stuff so my mum was always like no let's buy quality stuff but we'll buy less of it and we don't go as much so I always had that in me to be like no I'd rather buy you the good things that are going to last longer don't have

to buy you a new pair of school shoes every month because they're falling apart let's buy some really good ones um and then my house was just you you know, like I said, because they worked so much, the house was just a mess. They didn't care about the house. You know, in the whole time I lived in that house until I was 18 and moved out, they never decorated. So it was the same hideous orange 60s wallpaper that was when they first moved in. They never did anything to it.

The only room that ever changed was mine because I was like, oh, I didn't like this. I didn't like the mess. You know, their room was horribly messy was mine because I was like oh I didn't like this I didn't like the mess um you know their room was horribly messy um and mine never was you know the rest of the house wasn't awful but like the kitchen was always a bit messy but it was the only place my dad said had to be clean by the end of each day he's like you know the surfaces have to be clean before we go to bed and I'm the same unless I've been up having a drink with friends and we've had a party you know the kitchen's always clean before we go to bed um so I had lots that I learned from my parents in terms of what I liked and what I didn't like the chaos that I liked and the chaos that I didn't like so my I feel like growing up it was

all chaos in my house because it was just there was so much going on all the time and they were always busy but the reason I started the reason I realized I loved organizing was because my mum and dad weren't there much so I my neighbors ended up looking after me half the time because they wouldn't get back to work till like 11 12 at night and uh uh my way of saying thank you to them because they'd never take any money and they would never take anything off my parents was to help them tidy up so I'd be like oh let me help you hoover let me help you tidy let me help you organize let me do anything I can so I used to get a lot of fulfillment out of that because it was my way of saying thank you to them and that just grew that love of you know let me help you oh you're sorting

out your wardrobe let me have a little look let me help you with you um so I really enjoyed that um but you know the chaos at my mum and dad's house was the calm across the road so that was almost my escape so their home was always just like everything was beautiful Laura Ashley everything was immaculately placed it was just this most beautiful organized kitchen everything had a place so you know they had a utility room which was quite trendy back then you know which we didn't have then I didn't have that in my house everything just had a place and it was right whereas my home was chaotic so I'd always escaped to that house and that was my calm and I realized that this is what I love this is what I want when I grow up

you know I want my house to be like this I don't like what this is um and then my mum because they did work so hard ended up getting worked into the ground and that is what caused her mental illness so my mum worked for my dad who was a chartered accountant she was his bookkeeper and it just it he I blame him for the way that her illness went because I think if she hadn't worked so hard he wouldn't she wouldn't have ended up where she was and I think the the bipolar was was an effect of that of just not ever having any time to themselves like I said they had no social life they barely had friends around they just worked till 11 12 at night every day and then like I said didn't barely put a Christmas tree up didn't decorate didn't have any time to themselves and it just was I feel like it's a miserable existence and so when I was 11 that's when she had her serious breakdown and then she then was sectioned

nearly 10 times in the next 10 years um in and out mental institutes my whole you know from I think it was 10 11 to into my 20s um and it was sad really I just felt sad because you know it was I just think it that's why it's so important to live your life you know not work yourself into the ground get that work-life balance because it's so easy isn't it to let life completely overtake you but then let it overtake you so much that your house is becoming detriment to that your relationships are becoming affected by that and I think I say on repeat when relation when clutter starts affecting your relationships that's when you have to know that something has to change so when your kids can't eat at the dinner table when they can't find a clean pair of

pants in the morning you know when you're not able to get yourself dressed when you're trying to get through clothes to get into your bedroom to get into your bed um you know that's when things have to change and i think that's a really harsh reality of it but in my second book my open i think my opening line or the first few sentences was my mum who now lives in the second book my open I think my opening line or the first few sentences was my mum who now lives in the bottom of my garden um in a house in the bottom of my garden my mum who lives in a granny annex at the bottom of my garden not in a not in a little hut um you know my mum is a constant reminder of the life I don't want so you know every time I walk down my stairs and come into my kitchen my mum's at the bottom of my garden. And I just think it's a really sad reality of

that's where she's ended up. You know, I care for her now. She has carers as well, because her mental health is that, you know, I can't look after her full time and look after me. You know, I tried to do that and it was just too much. You know, it's a lot to look after someone and, you know, I've got such admiration for carers and what they do and how hard they work. But unfortunately, you know, years later, my dad then died and my mum was on her own and her house just went into disarray. Yeah.

And after I'd got married, I remember going and visiting her and the house was just, it was just beyond anything it had ever been before as I was growing up. And I just thought well I'm in a position to help so I helped her very quickly over a weekend turned her house around and I was just like this is so what I've been born to do I know I'm this is gonna you know this is definitely my calling it isn't just I can help my mum I can help other people do this because I walked into her house and I don't see anything but the end goal I knew my mum's house was lovely the

bones of the house was lovely. I knew that she didn't know what to do with it and she didn't know where to start, but I could just go in and go, right, this is what we need to do. This is how to do it. You sit down, make a cup of tea, lead me to it. And that was it.

And I did it, turned it around, made the house look beautiful. And I think that's when I came on Instagram, actually, because they were the first pictures I posted in my mum's before and afters of her house um and said you know this is what I can do this is how to do it you know don't be don't be overwhelmed by it you know book my services I'll come in you know there's no judgment because I've watched my mum go through this and you know all I know is that I can make it better and I think that's always been my goal in any situation and even now you know when I do the courses that I do and I

teach people I'm always like it's never a judgment you just have to make people realize and make them feel at ease and comfortable that you know everyone gets into these situations whether it's mental health whether it's sickness whether it's disability whether it's you know breakup up and marriage whether it's just general life you know but it's just you can get out of it yeah and as I'm listening to you talk I'm thinking there's there must have been such a tangle of emotions for you when you you know newly into double figures and I'm sorry to see that happen to your mom over and over because that's a very adult backdrop yeah to childhood when you're still little yourself and it means you have to often be the the grown-up one when everything is like that and I suppose you're

keeping everything ordered around your daughter is like a constant message to her I've got this yeah yeah isn't it over and over I'm I've got this because you know what it's like to be that child over and over I've got this because you know what it's like to be that child looking wide-eyed thinking I don't know where my stuff is I don't know how to get myself yeah I have to sort this out no one's coming to sweep in and make this better yeah absolutely because you know it's just me my dad most of the time my dad was useless you know my dad was a he was a very what's the word typical Sri Lankan man and I say that you know with with care about other Sri Lankan men but you know in in my dad's age my dad was in his 50s when they adopted me so he's a lot older um and then you know by the time I was in my six you know by the time I was 10 years old

he was in his 60s and then you know he was an older dad and so he'd been brought up very the woman does everything and that's it so you know he barely made a piece of you know he the only thing he'd ever do was make toast so everything was done for him you know he so he didn't ever do anything to do with the house so when my mum was ill and in and out of hospital for weeks and months on end no one was looking after the house it was just me me and him so you know he didn't care he didn't know what to do so that's why you know I spent half the time at my neighbors and you know he didn't care he didn't know what to do so that's why you know I spent half the time at my neighbors and you know very little time at my house because you know they

were looking after me they were caring for me because my dad just didn't know how to didn't even ever learn how to do anything with the house he didn't have a clue about what he was meant to do so you know we sort of muddled through so I think that's why my daughter is so stable you know she's such a confident lovely little girl and she knows where all her stuff is she you know like this morning she gets herself up she's got an alarm at 6 30 she gets she sort of wakes up has a doze gets out of bed gets herself showered gets herself dressed get she makes her own packed lunches you know she's such an older nine to ten year old you know she's very advanced but you, she's had to be because I've been working full time as well.

So me and my husband have always been like, no, you can do it. You know, we've never mollycoddled her, although she's been very loved and she's got a huge amount of love and she's a very happy child. You know, she's never will moan about getting up at 6am

because I've got to go to work and she's got to go to my neighbours. You know, I'm like, right, tomorrow morning, you're up at six, you've got to go next door. You know, Chris is going to come over and look after you. Then you've got to go to Kirsty's at's got to go to my neighbours. And I'm like, right, tomorrow morning, you're up at six. You've got to go next door. You know, Chris is going to come over and look after you. Then you've got to go to Kirsty's at eight. She's like, yeah, OK, no problem. Just sets her alarm, gets up, gets on with it.

You know, always a smile on her face, never miserable. But I think that's just because that's the way I've had to be. And, you know, when you work full time and you've got so much going on, they have to adapt to your life. And I always wanted to make sure that when we had a child um that that was going to be the case that you know they are just going to naturally fit into our lives not like oh my god my whole life has to stop and now everything has to change um and I know some people it does change and you know that's fine as well but I think when

you're sort of on a path and you you know that no one else is going to support you apart from yourself, you have no other choice, do you? We're not from an affluent family. We haven't got affluent parents. My mum and dad didn't have money. But, you know, they had money when I was young. They were chartered accountants. So, you know, they earned good money. But my dad was a terrible businessman.

So he never really got loads of money that he should have got. You know, and in the end, he had to sell the house to pay off a load of debt and move to the west country and that's when it got even worse you know my mum's mental health because you know they've done all this work for what nothing so that's why i'm very much like buy the dress buy the shoes buy it because you know my dad never got the car he probably wanted never had the holidays that he might have wanted whereas now we're like right i've earned some good money let's go on a nice holiday let's buy a piece of nice jewellery let's do this let's do that because it can all be gone tomorrow you know my dad died early when I was 30 Charlie's mum died when he was 30 so we both have had loss in our lives so we're both very much like live your best

life because no one knows when it's going to go well Well, I think it's, I mean, hearing you talk has firstly made me, my heart go out to any kid that grows up in that kind of chaos. I think that's a really sad idea of being in a home that just has got such a manifestation of, I don't know what the word is, being destabilised, I suppose, like instability, wonkiness, just that feeling like, you know, when you're little, you just know this isn't quite right. It's not quite right how close to the brink we are

and it's all just hanging together. But also it's so amazing that through all of that you've made such a map for yourself of the kind of parent you wanted to be because you clearly have got such an idea of the values that really mattered but also what they would actually look like in a practical sense. So I suppose your pragmatism runs in all directions with your emotions as well as your work. But you have had to experience quite big things you've had to deal with with

your emotional and your health in the last little while and I suppose if you're comfortable to it would be amazing to talk about what's happened to you recently because when I was looking firstly I just knew about your amazing skills with the decluttering but then the further I got into your story and actually in your Instagram you you've talked a lot about your secondary infertility, but your recent health things have sort of only really surfaced relatively recently. But you've been through an awful lot, do they? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's only just, yeah,

it's only recently surfaced. I only talked about it, you know, I think a couple of months ago I came out saying it because I'm very much uh I don't think you can talk about something unless you've been through it you know I've always been very practical like that you know I can't teach people unless I've done it myself I can't talk about a hotel unless I've been there myself I can't eat something unless I've been there myself so for me getting that diagnosis it was like and like I said right at the beginning of this conversation or I don't know if that was before we even started this, I've always been very, never woe is me, but how can I make the best of the situation? You know, how can I learn from it?

How can I go forwards? I don't wallow in very much at all. So if something happens, I'm like, okay, it's happened. Let's see how we can get through this. And I think it's always fight or flight,'t it when something like that happens so yeah I the story you know basically was that we were trying to get pregnant for well eight nine years now and wasn't getting pregnant I struggled with um fibroids for years and years fib Fibroids, something inside you that, like, you know, around your uterus, your womb, that grow, they shrink,

they grow, they shrink. And, you know, the NHS just don't deem them as a problem. So they're just like, oh, you know, they grow, they shrink, they're fine, they're not affecting your fertility. That's a whole other conversation. That's a whole other conversation. So anyway, I'd had this fibroid last year in my stomach. It was growing and growing.

It was like 12 centimeters. It was sticking out my stomach. Gone to the doctors. Oh, you know, it's quite a pain. I've got this big lump sticking out my stomach. You know, it's causing me a bit of aggro. And, you know, I'm really bleeding a lot and all of this. Yeah, but there's nothing we can do, really.

We'll put you on the waiting list for two years. But if you can afford it, why don't you go private? I'm like, could do. But, you know, do I want to go and spend 12 and a half grand? I don't know go private I'm like could do but you know do I want to go and spend 12 and a half grand I don't know but anyway I'd had this huge bleed I was in the middle of filming I had to be rushed to hospital they were like no there's nothing wrong with you you've just got heavy period fine okay anyway I was fed up with it and I'd spoken to my manager and I was like look do you know what I'm just so fed up I just she's like well why don't you speak

to the gynae geek the gynae geek is this amazing woman on instagram who's a gynecologist and she's also a friend of my manager's just have a conversation with her i thought right okay i'll have a conversation with her i said look these are this is my history these are my problems she said go and see a specialist if you've got the money go and see a specialist you know why wouldn't you invest in your health you know there's a huge amount of problem and you want to get pregnant so what else can you do so I said okay went and saw her friend who's a surgeon and a specialist a gynae specialist one of the best in this country he scanned me there and then in private appointments you always get scanned straight away and he said see that black mass inside your womb he said that is the fibroid taking up your whole womb so where the NHS have told you that the the fibroid is on the

outside of your womb it's actually on the inside so no wonder you're not getting pregnant there's no space and you know that's obviously causing you a huge amount of stress and you know there are probably lots of reasons why you're not getting pregnant but the first is let's get this out and i can do it next tuesday and i was like oh my god okay and you know it's going to cost 12 and a half grand i was like okay all right so i went home and we sort of had this discussion you know we're in our 40s we this is our last chance do we get the driveway done do i go and get my pyroids out you know what should we do with this money you know what should we spend first and we're like you know what let's just let's get this done you know your health

isn't important yeah so that is the right decision that was that was the right decision but you know sometimes you have these weird don't you think you sit there have these conversations put into the equation shock you're in shock at this conversation you've had from this one scan that's basically completely reversed everything you thought that was going on inside you. Yeah. And all these dismissive people. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, we do have the worst gender pay, the health pay gap in this country is the worst in Europe, by the way. So investment in men's health, women's health.

That's why I said there's a whole other conversation. Exactly. Around how things like fibroids are talked about by any way. Absolutely, yeah. So I just was like, do you know what? My husband was like, this is so important. Let's do it. We want to have a baby.

Let's do it. Okay. Two have a baby. Let's do it. Okay. Two weeks later, go and have my fibroids out, recover it. Obviously, wake up from the surgery. The surgeon is walking around doing his rounds. And he said, you know, the surgery went really well. We didn't just find one fibroid, but we found 12. There were 12 fibroids inside your womb, he said.

And he said, I'm going to be really honest with you. Your womb was severely damaged. You've got something called andromyosis um he said so i wouldn't be surprised if you see me in a month for a hysterectomy and i thought oh my gosh it's a bit harsh i've just come here for you know you're meant to be removing these because in my head i was already thinking well i'll just get over this in six months you have to let your womb heal after you've had this um myomectomy it's called a myomectomy is where they remove the fibroids that are large so it's like a c-section so i'd had a c-section basically to remove these

fibroids because they were so big and he said i think you'll see me in a month for hysterectomy and i was like oh god okay i'm thinking in my head well let me let my womb heal for six months and then in six months i can start ivf or whatever it is that i need to do to get pregnant anyway two weeks after the surgery i was feeling feeling fine. I was up and about, walking about. I even started filming. I was like, do you know what? I can go back filming. They were like, don't rush back. I was like, no, it's fine. I can do my warehouse scene. I'll just walk gingerly. I won't pick up anything, won't lift anything. Started filming. Doctor rang me. I need you to come in. You have to have your post-op checkup. And I said, okay, I will. I'm filming. He said, I really need you to come in you have to have your post-op checkup and I said okay I will I'm filming he said I really need you to come in and will your husband be coming with you I was like I wonder why he's

asking that I thought oh because I'm not meant to be driving thought he wants to make sure Charlie's going to drive I was like yeah yeah yeah we'll be in anyway went in on the Friday he's like Mr and Mrs Carter come and sit down and I was like why is he being so miserable and um he sat down he said you know obviously as you know with every operation anything that's taken out of your body gets sent off for testing and i was thinking yes but actually in my head i was thinking i didn't even think that far i just thought oh just having those removed and off we go and he said and i'm really sorry to say that the fibroids that we removed were all cancerous and he said you've got stage one cancer of your womb i was like so obviously we just sat

there like oh my god you know yeah in complete shock and so he said so what that now means is you have to have a full hysterectomy we'll remove your ovaries your cervix and your womb so you'll have your whole reproductive system removed he said it's the only way the cancer can be stopped from spreading so i was like okay i was like well you know what can i say just you know it's that we die isn't it it's that all the cancer is going to spread and you risk the you know dying so we both just like just do whatever you've got to do whatever you've got to do um so he then booked me in eight weeks later um through the nhs because he was an nh and he was a private doctor but also an nhs doctor and the nhs pathway for cancer is the best so i went back into the nhs system luckily um and um on the 8th of december i had everything removed

and so that was you know i mean i feel like the thing is because I'm adopted in my head as soon as I found out that news I've always wanted to adopt I've always wanted to adopt it's always been in my path I would adopt and because I'm adopted I just thought I was going to go full circle and that was in my path line so as soon as I had that news it was just well this is where I'm going to be. You know, this is what's going to happen. I was meant to adopt. And unfortunately, my health has directed me in that path that now I have no choice to.

So I was just like, just, you know, this is just how it's meant to be. So, you know, you can get through this. It's only stage one. It'll be fine. So I'm not going to die. Let's do it. So yeah, I felt, you know, obviously, I don't want to think about all the things. I think it's probably I blocked out all the thoughts of, oh, you can't have more children and all of those things, because I feel like, well, I can adopt,

so I can have another child. And I'm alive. So how lucky, you you know how lucky I am that I am alive and that I was I had the choice because some people find out they have cancer and you've got two weeks to live yeah I know and I think you know you're right the big headlines are you know you have your family you have your health yeah you always knew those were the most precious things to you anyway and and thank and thank god i had the fibroids out like my god if i if i'd not gone and had those out if i'd not gone and spent that initial money and gone private and done that yeah it would have been a different story if i'd waited two years on that nhs for the waiting list oh don't that makes me shudder i mean the idea as well of going to hospital with bleeding and pain and something protruding from your body and then being like well that's kind of what happens isn't it or that's a

heavy period like that actually makes me quite angry on your behalf but I'm sure you don't need that from me but I just feel like it's not you I think you were that's a real disservice you know to instincts that you had that were turned out to be spot on yeah and thank goodness you got talked into going to seeing the other specialists who turned out to really know their stuff I think that quickly thank god I did I just I'm so grateful for the surgeon I'm grateful for you know Anita the gynae geek you know for giving me the solid advice like do it Dilly don't not do it do it go and see this person go and do this and for him going because i was like oh i'm filming at the moment so do you

think i could wait till january or next year and do it he's like you need these fibroids out now they're growing and they're growing big and if you even want to contemplate having another child have them out now you know forget about filming forget about anything this is your health prioritize it and i think that was a really big lesson for me because I've always put my health to the side and just thought, work, work, work, work, work. Oh, I've got this, I've got that, I've got that. But this really made me wake up and think,

I need to do something. And then obviously having then found out, being told you've got cancer was like, wow, I really now have to prioritise my health. I had no choice. So in December December when I had the second operation they were filming a show and obviously I had to miss that but you know and that show came out last week and for me when it came out I I think I'd shared on my Instagram you know sort your life out it's back this week it's a bit bittersweet for me this week because that was when I was in the most pain because I

actually woke up obviously I'd had the first operation so I'd had a myomectomy in October which is a big operation by the way which is a c-section operation I then had the next operation in December the same that went through the same scar but this time they were removing my entire reproductive system but basically what happened was the cancer had spread. So the cancer had spread from my womb and it had spread to the lymph nodes that were around my pelvis. And the lymph nodes, I don't know if you know, but lymph nodes are only meant to be one to two centimetres or less. And if they're more than that, it's usually indicative of cancer. My lymph nodes had grown to the size of two man's fists. They were so full of cancer and they'd wrapped themselves around the sciatic nerve to my leg. So basically when they went in to give

me the hysterectomy and everything else that goes with it, they had to scrape the lymph nodes off my sciatic nerve. So as you can imagine, your sciatic nerve is the second largest nerve in your body. And any damage to your sciatic nerve, anyone who's had sciatica, anyone who's had any sciatic damage will tell you it is the most excruciating pain so I'd woken up from this surgery not only having all of my reproductive system moved but this pain to my leg and my sciatic nerve which the pain ended in my foot where all my nerve endings end so I then couldn't walk for four months and oh my god I just I cannot tell you I was on 16 painkillers a day eight of those were tramadol so every single day for like three or four months I was just in another world because I

it was so excruciating I mean I still have pain now in my foot I can't be on it all day or if I'm working all day I have to put shoes on because there's you know if I'm in a lot of hard flawed houses so the pain in my foot goes or you know it's just it's the the after effects of that surgery were huge so it wasn't just it wasn't just emotional it was physical it's huge physical damage and then of course i had to wait for the sciatic nerve and be able to walk again and that damage to really sort of try and fix itself a little bit um before i could then start radiation So then I had 28 sessions of radiation, which finished six weeks ago, eight weeks ago. So, yeah, my body's been through quite a lot of trauma in the last,

last, since November, well, since October, really. And I suppose I don't think I've recovered from it really yet. I mean, I've recovered as much as I can physically, I think. I think mentally it'd probably be with me for years. But I just think the physical sides of it, like what my body has been through, has been a huge amount. Yeah, and well, basically come up to the anniversary, I suppose, of the whole thing beginning.

Nearly a year, yeah. Thank you for telling me all about it. And I'm so sorry you've had to go through so much. I feel like you've found yourself a member of lots of clubs you might not have really wanted to know yeah um I have spoken to someone else who had a radical hysterectomy actually with the cancer called Hannah Fry um and she spoke about it too and I know that for her it left her this was a few years back she had hers now but she was contemplating another baby and all the similar things and I think I just I think it's an enormous thing and I hope you found lots of people that are giving you all

the support you need because I think in those times you must just need all those people around you because if you're dealing with physical pain emotional pain shock that's a lot of things firing yeah same time absolutely no I was just so lucky I mean I've always had an amazing support network around me and you know I was you know even with the I've always had an amazing support network around me and you know I was you know even with the tv family that I call them you know and and my private family and friends I was very lucky I was so well supported because you know I'm not normally someone that asks anyone for anything but it was just sort of I couldn't do anything I physically couldn't do anything so I needed that help and you like to be busy I get the

impression yeah doing what you do oh my gosh it's been so lovely to be back out working back out filming and feeling like myself again you know work my work my career bring me so much joy as do most people's um and I've always been very fortunate with that that I absolutely love what I do and that I I love going into people's houses I love sorting them out I love I love what what my career I love sorting them out. I love what my career has brought me. In fact, I do what I love now on TV. So for me to have been frozen for four months and not being able to do that was impossibly hard. But it's also just been great for me

to be able to share that journey and talk and teach people about it. You know, I do something every week called a Sunday sermon. And one of the things I've added into that is prioritise your health. You know, go this Monday, get your checkup, go and get second opinion, because I didn't do those things. And I think so many of us do put it off, especially, like you say,

people are busy, we're working mums, dads, whatever. We put our health to a side. And actually, you know, when you've got that feeling that something's not right, just keep on, keep on, because know we are right you know our instincts are right yeah I agree with you and I think I only mentioned Hannah by the way because I mean I'm sure you know you're not alone but I think um sometimes when big things happen to us it makes us feel like you've sort of fallen into some subcategory of where your life's supposed to be at that point because obviously it's meant things like menopause and things like this,

not before you were expecting to deal with any of that stuff. Yeah, I mean, I went straight into the menopause. I mean, I haven't even talked about that. I always forget, oh God, yeah, I'm going through the menopause. Suddenly get a hot flash, I'm like, oh yeah, that'd be the menopause. But it took me a long time to wean myself off all those drugs. So I still don't know what my body is recovering from so whether now all the symptoms I get are they the menopause are they this are they that are they the surgery are they

god it's just it's endless yeah and I guess um throughout your life it sounds like you've sometimes had to deal with stuff that's very much not what you think you would want to be dealing with at that time but a lot gets put on your shoulders yeah um and I'm glad that unlike you when you're young you now have your your partner and your kid to kind of help you through the days yeah oh my goodness I'm so lucky I do you know what it's I mean my husband Charlie was the best decision I ever made you know when I was 30 and I think god thank god I married a man like him because I don't know what I'd have done without him in the last last year I mean he's he's always been an amazing husband but you know even this year he's just been like oh my god so I'm very lucky and you know and and having a really strong daughter you know and I didn't tell her by the way you know I didn't tell her until until I started radiation how did you

manage that um I just told her that I when I I first had a problem with my, I first went into hospital for the fibroids, said, oh, my mum's got an operation in her stomach, fine. Then when I found out I had cancer, I told her that the operation I had didn't go well, and now I've got to have my womb removed, which means I can't have any more babies. So I basically told her like that. I thought, I don't need to tell her anything about cancer and scare her until I'm through it and then I know that the radiation is just the final part of it because obviously I won't be able to escape saying I'm going to hospital every day consecutively every week so I just didn't want to put that on a nine-year-old because I think maybe like you said maybe that was because I knew what pressure that was as a 10-year-old seeing my mum in and out of

psychiatric care and what that can do to someone so I thought if I can protect her as much as I can protect her let me just tell her that I'm having an operation because uh my womb is damaged so and and she said to me oh well we can adopt if you can't have more children can't we because she knows about adoption she knows I'm adopted so I was like yeah we can so and then when I told her eventually when I finished all the treatment and I was recovered and start can so and then when I told her eventually when I finished all the treatment and I was recovered and start about to start radiation I then said you know mummy was celebrating yes because when they told me oh you're cancer free there's no more cancer you can now start your radiation um I then said you know why we're celebrating why we're drinking

champagne and you know why people keep coming around and hugging me she's like no I said well because mummy had something called cancer but now they've removed it now I'm starting radiation just to make sure that none of it's there anymore and that's it she's like okay you're okay now though I was like yeah I'm fine now she's like okay good and that was it and then you know off she went so I think I tried to limit that as as much as I could because I don't know everyone's different like I said everyone is different I'm very impressed with that because that was a lot to hold for six for four months while I was you know recovering from these two major surgeries to well that from the December to the when I started radiation in May you know I think I started so it was a lot to hold in myself

that you know but I didn't want to I just didn't want her to be affected by and I didn't want her to carry anything on her shoulders because I think you say that word amongst kids and you just you know she'd have gone into school and said oh my mum's got cancer someone got oh my granny died of that yesterday or my mum died of or my dad you know you just kids say things without thinking and then she would have been like and I didn't want her to overthink to worry about something that was out of her control that's very I mean I think that's an amazing I I think you're absolutely right with that I think sometimes particularly when you have a child that seems very mature and together and yeah I mean I think it's really easy

to overshare with our kids I've I've definitely had to apologize to my elders for sometimes being like sorry I offloaded on you things that I wouldn't dream of telling his brothers and I think oh golly you know yeah and nothing nothing distressing if anyone watching listening is worried but just um it's just like an instinct you have sometimes but I think of course and everyone's so different but I'm just I think maybe it's my own childhood things that I think no I'm not telling her let's just wait let's wait till I'm okay just I think maybe it's my own childhood things that I think no I'm not telling her let's just wait let's wait till I'm okay you know if if it had been serious and I had to tell her I would have told her yeah you wouldn't know if I think just parenting is so unique isn't

it we all have our own ways of dealing with things because of things that we've been through or things that we know that we're in control of and for me I could control that and I just didn't want to put it on her you know and that's why I didn't tell you know the people that follow me Instagram I didn't tell them until I was through it because I thought I can't share anything about this until I've been through it myself because a I can't educate you about it and b I don't know myself you know this is so new to me and also it's a lot for me you know it's a lot for me to deal with all of these things that are going on so how can i deal with it when i you know and talk to you about it when i can't even deal with it myself so it just had

to be private until i was ready to go this is what's been happening behind the scenes well i think actually um that's obviously a very good instinct again of like having to how to protect yourself because you know when you share things online, it invites all the dialogue, all the conversation. And sometimes people might have come up to you unfiltered in the street and just gone, oh, I can't believe I'm going through that. And you might have been out with your daughter and you think, not here, not now. So it gave you a little autonomy on the information on a sort of need-to-know basis. Absolutely.

And I think it was very much a, I'm talking about it now that's why you know I came on I did a video and I did it with the gynecologist that I spoke to so it was it came from an educated point of view as well because I think like you said on social media it's so easy to come out and blurb everything out and not know everything about it not know what you're talking about and then you get a million questions going oh but hold on this is this is and you know she gave the educated side of it I gave the personal side of it and then I was like this is the only time I'm talking about it life is coming on as normal yeah so sort of stop people calling me every day or messaging me every day going because I can't be um i couldn't be an advocate for it because i just thought i i don't want to be that person you know it's like i'm not suddenly going to

change my page now and it's going to be all about cancer because that's not my coping mechanism you know it's just i i've been through it i've done it um i'll educate you when i can i'll talk about the menopause when i can i'll talk about gynae cancers I want to work with some gynae cancer charities um I'm an ambassador for Adoption UK so let me do the positive things with it rather than let's all talk about my experience you know I'll talk about it when I can talk about it but I think that's just the way I've had to cope with it and I think it's been the right thing yeah and also sometimes things happen to you and you don't automatically have to turn it into um you know fighting it for anybody else if you don't want to sometimes it's just a thing that happened and you have to be like the poster girl for it you know what I mean exactly and I just I just didn't I didn't want to be a poster girl for

it and I and um for me that was just the way I had to cope with it because you know it's a lot isn't it it's a huge amount. And also, you've already experienced the things you did feel comfortable sharing, you know, the struggles you'd had with your mum, the struggles you'd have trying to have another baby. I do actually think the area of secondary infertility is a big deal because I think people don't always...

It's sort of treated in a different box to people who are just trying to have their first baby but actually um as I understand it from my mum trying to have another baby after my sister she said in some ways she found having trying to have another baby and not being able to really even more pain which this is her words not mine I'm trying to upset anyone she said she found it even more heart heightened sometimes because she knew all the things she was missing out on yeah so she used to find that when people would be like oh well you have other kids sometimes it kind of didn't really take into account that the fact that you knew what you were yeah as you say what you were missing out on exactly yeah I think it's something again that's not spoken about but

gynae cancers aren't spoken about much you know it's something that's still quite a gray area with the NHS and it's something that you know isn't investigated enough so. You know, it's something that's still quite a grey area with the NHS and it's something that, you know, isn't investigated enough. So I, you know, absolutely will want to be and have talk to charities about that and I want to raise awareness for that and I want more people to talk about it and get themselves checked out and not ignore the symptoms, which is why, you know, on my Sunday sermons I try and remind people,

go and get yourself checked out. You know, whenever I see anything about gynae cancers, I share it because it is so important, you know. So these things, you know, I Sunday sermons, I try and remind people, go and get yourself checked out. You know, whenever I see anything about gynae cancers, I share it because it is so important, you know, so these things, you know, I've got a platform. I always want to try and use it for the good. Well, I think that's brilliant. And I think what you said before about women sometimes putting their own health so way down on the list is a really big part of it. Plus, we're obviously introduced to the idea of, you know, paying every month, all this stuff is sort of part of it plus we're obviously introduced the idea of you know um paying every month all this stuff is sort of part of the badge of like womanhood and the club we're all part of but actually

that doesn't mean we should just you know put up with the things that can dog us for for years and things that you just think that's not right I think what's coming across in spades is that your very your instincts are very well honed in terms of like how you prioritize stuff and um and how you deal with things like I think you've got it comes across you've got a very clear sense of who you are and what what how you need to manage things to make you feel good about stuff that's that's really impressive may I just ask you one question about adoption because I've got an adopted sister amazing and um I wondered what's something that you'd only understand about being adopted if it's happened to you what's a good thing for me to know

about how that feels I mean I my experience of adoption is amazing and I just feel like I've always just thought how lucky I am how lucky I am to have been found by a family that have I am how lucky I am to have been found by a family that have embraced me and loved me and given me the most incredible start in life um and you know everything that they could have wanted you know even though my mum and dad like I said weren't there I was never short of love you know when I was there I was never short of love my mum still now obviously you know the fact she's at the bottom of my garden obviously means that we have a relationship. It's a functional relationship, but it's still a relationship. But I just feel very lucky. I mean, look at where I am today. Despite everything that's happened, look at where I am today. You know, I'm thriving. You know, I'm successful. I'm happy. I'm, you know, I'm loved.

I love my job. I love my career. You know, I've got great friends and family. You know, and that would not have been possible had I not been adopted into this country, had I not come over here. So I'm always grateful. I've always been someone that is very grateful for the life that I've got. I never dismiss anything or ever think that anything is just handed to me on a plate, which, you know, stems back to why Nellie is the way that she is. Because I think, God, how lucky you are to be here. You know, be grateful for the life that you've given, the hand that you've been given.

And, you know, you can turn every negative into a positive as well. And even with having a cancer diagnosis, you know, I used it and thought, right, well, you know, now I can adopt. This is going to be the push I need to go and actually go and adopt. I can help other adopted children. You know, I can make other people, you know, learn about gynae cancers. And maybe if I can help one person go and get a checkup, which is going to stop them, you know, or get them seen, then, you know, I've helped other people. So I think if whatever you've got, whoever whoever you are is always to try and turn that

around but I just feel very grateful and very lucky and very loved I think adoption is the most selfless thing that anyone can ever do and I always anyone that's in an adopted family anyone that has adopted children anyone that has is adopted themselves I just think you have to be lucky I think you should think you are you should think you are very lucky but I know not every adoption story is nice and that makes me really sad I think when I hear about people that feel rejected that feel like they were rejected and unloved and all of those things I think oh my god that must be awful because I can't relate to any of that you know I just I feel I feel so lucky and I just I feel like we're in a special gang and I love that wow that's

so positive I have to say I think you're such a force for good and I know on sort your life out you're just dealing with clutter but I think it sounds like you're capable of sorting out a lot more oh thank you including including the path your own life is on so I wish you all the best with the adoption thank you I'm thrilled you thriving. I think that's a really positive note to end on. And don't worry, the door has not been sealed. You are free to leave. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

My pleasure. See, what a woman. I mean, how much positivity so impressive i get the impression that dilly is one of those people i mean obviously she has her support network her her daughter her husband and that unit and you know friends family so you i think if you have that support it gives you a good standing anyway but I also get the impression that Dilly's one of those people who kind of picks you know decides how she's going to feel about things and the positive you know glass half full attitude and then lives it until she feels it to be honest I relate to that because I feel like that about things but I have not had to deal with the amount of things that Dilly has

and so I think she's a really impressive woman and really lovely. And I really appreciate her being so open about everything she's been through because, you know, definitely not alone, but also not easy. So sending lots of love to her and to you, if you or anyone you know are affected by similar things. I hope you're feeling OK in yourself. you know are affected by similar things. I hope you're feeling okay in yourself. Meanwhile here, Saturday morning is in full swing. I've got kids all over the place and I'm about to go actually, which always feels a bit weird on a Saturday. Tonight I have a gig with the band, so Richard will join me later. But for now, I'm actually off to go and sing for a tv program celebrating 10 years of gay marriage in the UK and I'm the wedding singer so actually I'm really proud to be a part of it it's

going to be lovely and we've got a beautiful day how lucky are we I mean it's the end of October and it's gorgeous outside so I think I might be singing outside um but yeah it'll be really happy thing I think and then I've got tomorrow off and uh like a true Brits and a nice enough day Richard and I gonna have a barbecue the last one of the year and possibly I mean we can that we can now no longer refer to this as late summer we are definitely in autumn but But wow, what a beautiful day. Golden light. Gorgeous. Oh, I'm being heckled from another room. Listen, it is the end of the series. But next week, there's a special bonus episode. This is really lovely, actually. So as you know, this podcast has been sponsored recently by Clark's. And they asked me to talk to my mum about our memories of shoe shopping.

But of course, when you get me and my mum together, you don't just talk about one thing, you talk about lots of things. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, then you might remember that my mum was one of my first, first guests in the first series. And I think still, obviously, not just because she's my mum, my favourite guest I've had, but also it was just such a significant conversation to have with my mother, you know, about how motherhood changed her I think you always think of your mom as eternally having been a mom and of course they weren't um so yeah lovely to record that so you'll hear that

next week and then I've been busy already recording for the next series many more wonderful women coming your way and in the meantime uh listen have an amazing uh autumn i will see you the new series will kick off sort of mid to late november around the time i'm going on uk tour if you're coming to see me on tour in the uk i can't wait i'm getting all christmasy for that i'm also going to europe in the new year in spring. So bring in lots of disco dance your way. You know me, disco pop always has my heart. But with a little sprinkling of Christmas, if you're seeing me in November and December. I mean, if Christmas ain't ripe for a kitchen disco,

I don't flipping know what is. I'm basically going on stage as human tinsel. Anyway, lots of love to you. Thank you so much for coming to listen to the podcast. Big love to Ella May, who does the amazing artwork, to Claire Jones, who's the most amazing producer and all-round cheerleader, to Richard for doing the editing. I am being shouted at by my four-year-old. To you for lending me your ears. Enjoy this lovely golden autumn that we're having, and I will see you soon. Lots of love. Bye. Come on, Mickey. What is it? I'm downstairs. that we're having and I will see you soon.

Lots of love. Bye. Come on, Mickey. What is it? Where are you? I'm downstairs. Doing what? Recording for the podcast.

Come down. Who are you talking to? Well, at the moment it's just me, but hopefully at the other end of it there'll be someone listening. Thank you.