Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 112: Helen Skelton

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Presenter Helen Skelton has been a familiar and much-loved presence on our TV screens since she presented Blue Peter (2008-2013) and then Countryfile.Famous for her can-do attitude to life she still has several Guinness World Records under her belt, she’s run a Namibian ultra-marathon (which is 3 marathons back to back), kayaked the entire length of the Amazon, and made it to the finals of Celebrity SAS Who Dares Wins... and Strictly! Helen and her three children now live in Cumbria, near where Helen grew up herself, and they all love the outdoors. I caught up with Helen at her publisher’s office in London on the day her autobiography ‘In My Stride’ was published. It’s a brilliant read and I love how Helen is someone pretty extraordinary but she has such a generous spirit she makes me feel like I might be able to do some of those things, too. Not sure I’m going to test the theory though..!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello you. How are you? Can you hear the seagulls? That's funny, I could just hear loads of seagulls.

I'm in Newcastle. I'm on tour. I haven't spoken to you for ages. How's everything been? With me, what have I been up to in the last month? I feel like I've just mainly been thinking about Christmas. I'm on my Christmas kitchen disco tour. I've never done a Christmas tour before.

I'm on my Christmas kitchen disco tour. I've never done a Christmas tour before. So I've been plotting and pondering on how to bring all the best elements of Christmas and keep it feeling, you know, a bit camp and fun and nostalgic and warm, but not too cheesy or weird. I think it represents what I hoped, actually. I've been having a lovely time.

The stage looks beautiful. Christmas trees and tinsel and fairy lights. And yeah, we've got all my favourite Christmas songs in there. Loads of party songs. We've done two gigs now. Brilliant party crowds, all sort of in their sparkly outfits. It's not obligatory, but I love the fact people dress up. I think it's adorable.

And yeah, lots of fun. It's really fun. I've got 14 more dates to go. I'm holding in my left hand some vintage clothing I just bought in Newcastle. Just had a really nice brunch. I had a lie-on on the tour bus this morning. What is not to love? If you're in Newcastle, there's a little place called Retro.

I just bought a dress, a top, and a really, sorry, car going past, really crazy jumpsuit, like very 80s jumpsuit. Let's see if I ever wear it outside the house. Probably yes. Anyway, the podcast is back, happily so. And I've recorded the majority of it already for you. Look at me all organised. So we kick off with Helen Skelton. So I have bumped into Helen quite a few times over the years, actually. We have a, what feels like, we feel like we're kind of like second cousins once removed because Helen did did blue peter my mom did blue peter i grew up with watching my mom doing that so this is um

for those of you don't know what blue peter is how dare you first of all secondly it's uh the longest running children's tv show in the world 65 years old i think now and it. And it kind of works like a sort of older sibling type of a way of introducing you to different topics around the world, fun stuff, new stuff, fundraising stuff. And Helen was one of its presenters, during which time she completed a Namibian ultramarathon. An ultramarathon, by the way, if you're not familiar, like I wasn't, three marathons back to back on one day. I mean, we're talking crazy town stuff. So Helen clearly has the mindset of an endurance athlete. I do think so much of it is in the mind. You have to feel that you can keep going. You can't speed up. Well, you can speed up a marathon. But if you're doing an endurance training thing,

a lot of it is about you're playing quite a long game. So you have to have pockets of reserve in your brain of where you go to when you're feeling depleted, when everything hurts, when you just want to stop. And she's clearly very, very good at that. But the thing about Helen that I think is amazing and unusual is that sometimes when you meet people that do endurance feats, and she's done a few of these, by the way, kayaking up the Amazon. She's won, I think she's got a few Guinness World Records under her belt. this isn't a one-off occurrence but usually when you meet people that do that kind of thing regularly they almost feel

like other beings you think well yes that's how you are but she doesn't feel like that she feels like someone that you might you know I don't know sit next to waiting for your plane or whatever it might be I don't know why I picked that example. You know what I mean? You might bump into, and you wouldn't know that she was capable of all of that stuff, which makes you feel like maybe I'm capable of more than I thought I was too, which is a good thing. It's a very generous thing.

It's a nice feeling you get when you spend time with her. She has had three children, two boys and a daughter, and she is now a single mum um and this all happened becoming a single parent when she was also doing strictly and anyway we will talk about all of this stuff i read her book in my stride it's out now it's a lovely read i really enjoyed it you can really hear her voice throughout all of its sentences and yeah we just had a really lovely chat so thank

you so much to Helen but mainly of course thank you to you it's really good to be back with a new series I'll be keeping you updated of my progress on the tour in the next few weeks and also any new vintage purchases I'll let you know any good little shops to head to I'll let you know all right um good to be back with you. And enjoy. See you in a bit. It's lovely to see you, Helen. How are you doing?

I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, always lovely to see you. I feel like we've crossed paths a lot over the years. We have. And I had to quickly make sure we'd actually press record on actually recording a podcast so those of you could have just had a lovely chat for like an hour and then see you again soon we're already like in the flow um how are you feeling about your book coming out I am literally sitting next to it and I've just seen it in the flesh for the real time I can't sit right next to it because I'm a bit I don't know to turn it over so you can

see the cover it's one of those isn't it you want to turn it over so you can see the cover? Yeah, I'm a bit... It's one of those, isn't it? You pour your heart out and your head out and then you think, oh, right, yeah, I've actually put that there for other people to read. So, yeah, I am a bit nervous, if I'm honest. Well, don't be. It's brilliant. Thank you.

I absolutely loved reading it and I got an advanced copy so I had to read it all on my phone. So this is dedication levels high. It's commitment. But I really enjoyed it and I think it's got a real warmth of tone it's very conversational and you just come across like yourself like really likable

and warm and relatable but also extraordinary and there is a through thread of and I say this in a very friendly way quite barking in there too I just there's about three points in the book where you're like um before I did the women's downhill skateboarding championships I hadn't been on a skateboard since a child before I did the Namibian ultra marathon I hadn't wasn't really a runner before I did a tightrope walk I'd seen man on wire the movie and it looked like fun um when you were writing it all out did you kind of reflect on this part of yourself that's like that I think ignorance is bliss is the best way to look at it because for me yeah I did sign up to do those mad things and I think the older you get you shy away from doing things because your

reference points are bigger so you think oh I'm not very good at running I'm not very good at dancing I'm not very good at walking on wires which you don't have that when you're a kid you just jump in two feet and I think that's a shame that's the only bad thing about growing older is that you kind of develop these reference points that stop you doing things you don't know true you don't make a fool of yourself you don't embarrass your kids you don't hurt yourself but actually you know we're not here that long yeah yeah you never know what you're gonna love and I guess actually a lot of that is quite cultural as well isn't it because when we're at school you're encouraged to sort of think you grade yourself on the things you're good at and the things you're not and then I think I recognized that in myself when I was older and I was learning

something new actually putting off probably was strictly where I thought this is the first time I've really learned something new and there's so many things where I was like oh I'm just not good at that because I did it when I was 15 and I wasn't very good you put yourself in a pigeonhole and why you know if we learn anything you know as years go by in 2023 that we shouldn't be in a pigeonhole there doesn't have to be a label and I think for me I worked on Blue Peter and it was just the best opportunity ever to do oh today you're going to be a rock star tomorrow you're going to be a poet today and I think that is something that I sort of carry on you know we have that Blue Peter connection extension of the family and I know that is something that I sort of carry on you know we have that Blue Peter connection extension of the family and I know yeah it's just a wonderful show and a wonderful lesson in life

that people say it willy-nilly or you can be anything that you want to be but I think you have to practice what you preach don't you yes and I think you're right that with Blue Peter you say it's like we're sort of like second cousins once removed or something with Blue Peter connection I think they they have a thing where they'll take on board a new presenter and then it's there's not really a conversation about the can't option it's just this is the thing we think that you can get up to and let's let's see how you do and they love the things that you can't do and and i think again what's brilliant about that is which we don't do as an adult there's something so good the skateboarding was one that you mentioned I remember I was absolutely terrified I couldn't do it and

the guy said to me if you get to the bottom of that hill or you get on the skateboard you're going to show to everybody you you tried it doesn't matter if you try and fail you try and again I think as adults we tell kids that but we don't tell ourselves that that's so true. And I think, so how old were you when you started Blue Peter? I was 23, 24. Okay. 23. So how much of the experiences of that sort of set you up for the things that followed then? That kind of like, just have a go at this. I think I'd worked in a newsroom, very serious and courts and councils and MPs and all of that.

And I found it really important but really draining and so when I went to Blue Peter it was like going to a party because the sky was sort of the limit and I was lucky that I was on it at a time when the editor and you won't mind me saying this he was a bit barking you know I'd say should we do something he'd say that's a mad idea but the madder it was the more he loved it because I think at that time Blue Peter was really fighting to be relevant it was at a time when you know there was loads of other stuff on tv Steve Backshall was jumping out of planes and wrestling crocodiles so Blue Peter presenters didn't need to and the music was appearing on YouTube so we were kind of fighting for our relevance so we knew we

needed to do things that were noisy and I think that gave me carte blanche too I remember for instance I remember the Amazon came up and they said oh why don't you go and and pedal a bit of it and I said why would we do a bit of it let's do it all I had no idea how big the Amazon was when did it dawn on you this is the Amazon that you kayaked yeah yeah when I looked at a map and I was like it's gone from one side of a continent to the other but you know when you've said it that much I was like yeah cool I'll be fine with that and I was thinking oh I'm to the other. But you know, when you've said it that much, I was like, yeah, cool, I'll be fine with that. And I was thinking, oh, I'm not sure I am fine with that. But when you've said it enough times, I'd set my stall out and I was like, come on. And I think the more people said, this is bonkers, the more the show said, we should absolutely do it.

And I guess, like you said, if you have someone saying, look, the main thing here we're doing is trying something, then that's still a story, isn't it? Yeah. here we're doing is trying something then that's still a story isn't it yeah however I get the impression that the next bit the battle is picked up by you and your mindset of actually I don't really want to just try I want to actually get this done I never in any of those challenges I never wanted to let anyone down so I remember the first big one I did was the running and um halfway through I was hallucinating I was dehydrated I was seeing, I was hallucinating. I was dehydrated. I was seeing seals. I was hiding behind cactuses for shade. And the producer handed me a load of messages from kids.

And the kids were saying, you're going to win. You're going to do it in five hours. And I thought, I don't want to be the one to tell them that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. So very quickly, and I think, again, telly's different now. Social media's different now. People engage with you in a weird way. The beautiful thing about kids' TV is kids kids if they like you they watch and if they like you they get in touch and if they don't they turn over in adult land if they don't like you they

go on twitter or the whatever and they tell you they don't like you yeah but what was brilliant about kids tv you have this army of like really you know wonderfully naive loyal kids who are saying yeah go and do it so you go all right then i will i'll be a skateboarder and just for people listening to it we're referring to with the running this is the namibian ultra marathon so it's three marathons back to back within 24 hours yes i had to do 80 miles in a day but again i went into it never having run a marathon so i had no reference point yes that is extraordinary helen sorry Sorry, that's so incredibly stupid. Well, it's sort of magnificent because, I don't know,

I suppose the thing is about those kind of, you know, endurance feats, you normally think of it having to be a certain type of person. We've sort of got an image in our head of the sort of person who does endurance feats. And I love the fact that your strength is a more sort of quiet, stoic, dig deep and find it in yourself thing, which actually makes it feel really inspiring because sometimes with those people,

you think, well, I'm not that kind of person. I'm not up at 4am and I haven't already run 15 miles before breakfast. So you feel like you can sort of put it in a box. With yours, it's a bit more like, maybe there is a way I could break look it doesn't have to be that it's whatever that version is for you I suppose and and that thing about pigeonholes and you that on that race so we all had to go out and camp in Namibia and

they're climatized because it was obviously really hot it's the desert and so we got there and at the time I had really long bleach blonde hair extensions in I was in my mid-20s so you know I hadn't had kids so I had like you know I was you know I was busty and I rocked up in this I'll never forget a boob tube like polka dot dress and like wedge sandals and everyone else who was setting off on that run they all looked exactly like you would imagine they all had the little shorts on that had the splits up the sides the running vest those neck things that they all wear and the wraparound sunglasses and they were lovely to me but there's not one of them thought I was going to finish and they all had bets on when I would

drop out but you could imagine a long distance runner and those are the people on that start line yeah wow that's kind of impressive in all ways and I I think, you know, it just shows you, first of all, don't underestimate. I think you, and also by saying that you aren't part of that crew, I don't mean to diminish what you've done in any way, shape or form and say that anyone could do it. But I just think it means that when you're engaging with the stories, and I watched the clips again, actually, of you doing that. And there's this brilliant bit where you're halfway through.

It's probably around the time you were seeing Seals. And you're going, I don't know if I'm going to burn. I've put a bit of sun cream on. I don't normally burn, but then I'm not normally in Africa, am I? And you're just so like, it's like everything's just like dawning on you as you're there. Like, wow. But I think that's the thing. I never think it through.

And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I mean, my friends and family often say, you don't think things through. You speak before, you act before you think. You speak before you think. And that's true. and although that can be a potential downfall I think in things like that it's a good thing if I had have thought about what it physically and mentally entailed to run 80 miles I probably wouldn't have done it yeah but I just had a go and then you know I wasn't a runner but I ran 10 minutes and then I ran five miles and then I was like do you know what I never think I ran 80 miles I think I ran five miles. And then I was like, do you know what? I never think I ran 80 miles.

I think I ran five miles lots of times. Yes, and I found that a really interesting way to do it. Is that something that was like a tip given to you or is that just something you worked out for yourself that bite-sized pieces made your brain feel happier? No, I think it was just the way I approach things. And I'm like that with a lot of things. What do I need to do today?

What do I need to do this hour? Otherwise it's too, and that's like life, isn't it? Life's overwhelming. Yeah. So I think, and in all of those challenges, it was always that little three steps on a high wire. Yes. I don't know if you would remember,

but around the time you were training for that ultramarathon, you were also doing the sports relief dance challenge with my mum. That was when I first met you. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, my mum says she remembers you running home and training when you were coming home from doing dancing doing dancing all day yeah so that's amazing and the energy that you would have and how you're getting it done and so obviously when you're writing the

book and you're actually like documenting it all is that the first time you've really kind of stepped back and had that perspective of all the things you've done um I wrote a kid's book a while ago with some little adventures so I had a bit of a revisit then. But I think this is the first time I've done it as an adult and this is the first time I've done it as a parent. And what's your relationship like with risk and adventure since you've been a parent? Definitely, well, I can't go on the big adventures that take months, which is what I used to love to do.

The risk thing, it's funny, you don't want to get injured. So I'm more nervous about it, but I wouldn't say I shy away from it. I think when the older your kids get, the more you realise they need you so much. The more, I think they need you more as they get older. Definitely, I 100% agree with that. And so I'm conscious of, I don't want to get injured now because I still want to be able to play football with the kids. I don't want to get injured so I'm out of action for them.

So I approach it differently. But I think it's even more important to do it because I'm really, I mean, mine are one, six and eight. So they don't sit there and go, mum, let's unpack the time you did the marathon. But I hear them talk to their mates. And that for me has been a real wake up call. Do you talk to their mates about what things you've done? Yeah, like they would never talk to me.

One of my middle son said to someone at school and the teacher told me that a little boy had fallen down and he was upset. And my middle son went, don't worry, my mum once got bitten by a piranha and she is fine. Don't you once get bitten by a piranha? No, I don't know why he's got that.

I was thinking, I don't remember that bit from your book. But I think for him, he's got his reference. Yeah, and so it might sound really ego. It's a bit of an ego boost for me that I'm like, oh, thanks, mate. Isn't it when your kids appreciate something you've done you have this oh wow thanks definitely and I think you're right it's the thing when you overhear a little bit of chat where you're like oh this is kind of percolating there's something this is dripping through and I think you've sort of also made me think that sometimes when you take things on you feel like there's almost got

to be an aesthetic of what that looks like to be the person that does those things. So the fact that you turned up for that ultra marathon completely as yourself as you were in your mid-twenties probably set the tone for actually, I don't need to shift what works for me to get these things done. There's another way out there.

And it's making me think of when you were training for SAS Who Dares Wins, which you did do post having your boys. Yeah. And is it right, you used to carry them, one on your front, one on your back, as the training? Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I used to love the gym.

And then sometimes I said to my friend the other day, oh gosh, I never go to the gym anymore. And she was like, have you met your kids? My kids are really physical. And so they always want to be doing biking, running. Even now, you know, they'll want to be carried places. And so, yeah, when I was training for SAS Even now, you know, they'll want to be carried places. And so, yeah, when I was training for SAS,

it's another thing to fit into the day. But actually, it was fine. So I was thinking, I'm going up those fells. But I had, yeah, I used to put Louis on my front and Ernie on my back. That's amazing. And they didn't realise, you know, it wasn't like, right, we're going to go for six hours now. I'd just do little bursts here and there.

But again, I think I can't lecture my kids to go outside and play if they're not seeing me do it. Yeah. Because they learn from what they see, don't they? They definitely do. And I guess also the messaging of just, for your kids just to follow the instinct of being a bit wild about things.

That's such a normal instinct for kids. And maybe a lot of modern living has become a lot about kind of softening the edges of stuff. And I'm not saying you do things about safety, but mean just we've kind of encouraged a very like you know I think in terms like helicopter parenting like keeping an eye on everything protecting everything and sometimes there's probably a bit too much of that that goes on oh my kids I always say it makes me laugh because again you hear yourself don't they and I heard my eldest something to someone you're gonna have two points of contact at least and I thought that's for me because if he's up a wall I'm like two but hand on a foot at least one hand on my

foot so I never say don't climb no because well in fact the other night um my boys found my own boxing gloves and they were like boxing against the pads and I said don't do that don't fight and only went where you did and I thought I've got nothing to say about that yeah so I said okay if you want to box I was like you've got to do it properly yeah you can't just be punching willy-nilly and he was right that that's the only thing is that and I can't say to them you can't do it well swimming I take my eldest in the lake and I always said you cannot get in there without your life jacket and he went I bet I can swim from a to b I said if you do that then you you know you're better swimming but of course he goes off and does it straight away. So I feel like I can't beat them. I've got to join them

now. I'm keeping up with them rather than the other way around. But that's exciting. And how nice for them that they're having these adventures with you. Oh, when my eldest said, can I come swimming in the lake with you? It was like, oh, my Christmases had come up once. Oh, and you can't make that happen, you know. They're either into that kind of thing or they're not. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

They have their character. Yeah. And if they're interested in what you're doing like um Richard's my husband he has a pilot's license and so far none of the kids have shown any interest in flying and it's like we just have to wait till one of them's interested like to you it's really mega exciting and like isn't this wild but for them they're just like oh wait and one day penny might drop you know but in the meantime I try and find things that they want to do and I like that they like playing golf so I that was one of the reasons I started playing golf because again they go to the driving range and they think oh mummy's cool she can whack that

I think that is cool actually and how's your relationship changed with work because I know recently you sort of shifted things around a little bit like and you were really open about the fact that it was because of the kids I was so shocked at the amount of noise around that so i used to do a sunday shift at five live then i swapped my days and then it became this massive big thing and everybody sort of started a narrative and a big discussion around it which was great but also like i'm not the first parent in the history of time to change a shift so that i can do things with my kids on a weekend but I thought it's clearly something that a lot of people are anxious about yeah I think you know most people these days have to work I was really lucky my mum didn't work till I was 13 14 but most people have to work now and I feel lucky that I can do quite project things busy things time off

I think just when you're public facing it's easy for people have an opinion well I think as well there's an assumption that if you're in the public eye you'll want to be doing that as much as you possibly can and that everybody that's the the goal is always to be visible and actually I think there's a big comfort in the fact that you can step back from things and try and create the work that what you know you get like the bespoke work that actually is how you want it to be I had a really good chat with a girl who's very public facing. And she said, oh, I've got that much work going on. I'm a bit stressed about this, that and the other.

And I've got nothing in the diary. And I said, hang on a minute, that's success. Like you've earned enough in the last year because you've been crazy busy to now have some downtime with your child. Why are we in our industry not seeing it as success unless we're at burnout point and working seven days a week like that i don't think that in most walks of life that's

success it's just our industry on each step with peloton from their pop runs to walk and talks you define what it means to be a runner whatever your level embrace. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks and hikes led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner. Peloton all access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. One of the first times we met, I was covering for Lorraine. And I said to you,

oh, how do you do the work? And I only had one child then and he was tiny. And I said, how do you do the juggle? And I remember I could see on your face that you were so lovely. I'm like, well, I do this and I do that. And in your face, I could see thinking, what's she asking me that for? and now when people ask me that I'm like that's what people do isn't it since the beginning of time

people have had to juggle it's just our job is public facing that's true I hope I'm sure in my face I hope I wasn't firstly I'm used to

being asked that but also I think it's a conversation that invariably comes up because particularly I mean actually the more I think I don't really know

many people who do have a 9 to 5 really there's so many things that go you know around the edges of that but I think also it's like as you say that is the juggle but it's also where your head is at and how you divide up your brain into the bits that you prioritize and give yourself permission to do that in a way that works for you yeah and I think we we're at a time when it's we're the first generation to see the new opportunities yes but also have the framework of the traditional lifestyle completely and those two things don't necessarily also always coexist but at the same time have we ever had a generation

of people where we're subject to so many blogs and influencers and other people who maybe make us question our choices like there's so much noise isn't there so much noise whereas if you step back and go actually my kids are all right I'm all right the bills have been paid we're all you know it's all right but you do find yourself subject even the most nailed on person you go oh am I doing it right because they're doing it different is their way better absolutely it's my way all right yeah absolutely and what I can see from from the way you've written about things in your book is that you really feel like you've got to a point where you've sort of realized that your way way is all right thanks you've got to own it haven't you yes you really do and you learn so

much along the way and I did wonder though with all your amazing ability to get your mind in the right place to get things done sometimes with that comes a pressure to not be vulnerable with things and I remember when there was I think it was your first baby when you said you wanted pain relief and the doctor said the nurse was like oh you don't you don't have all the people to have that you don't need that and I thought that was an interesting thing that was it I don't know was it the nurse is that yes I remember I said can I have some pain relief she went oh you don't need it I like, I've got nothing to prove. Let me have the drugs.

But it was too late. But that's a funny thing to say to someone, I think, of all the people, because, you know, everybody's allowed to need help and support with things, you know? And I remember once I did a half marathon, and someone asked me at the end, what time did I get? And I just went she went oh beat superwoman and I was like oh that's not come on that's not the sisterhood but then that's because you set your stall out don't you people think everything's easy and I hope in this book that's

the whole point it's like life has peaks troughs challenges good bits bad bits and actually there's always a way through them yes I don't think being sad makes you necessarily always depressed. I don't think being mad makes you toxic and angry. I think you're allowed to have those emotions and own them. But there's always a way to get past them and to keep turning the pages. Yeah, that's really well put. And I think, like you said, keeping one foot in front of the other in a way that's still being kind to yourself

is often actually all you're doing and what loads of people are doing. So that woman who made that comment might not know anything else you've been dealing with and that's just the thing you did. And maybe, you know, we've all got the things that we find different and different ways we're, you know, reflecting on ourselves and our ability to get things done. Yes. But you must be always supportive of other people too. You never know what's going on in ability to get things done yes you must be always supportive

of other people too you never know what's going on in someone else's life do you yeah I think that's so true you know that there's a thing isn't it that gets passed around you don't know what else what someone's dealing with in their day yeah and I think that's always a good thing to carry with you yeah I think um I would be so annoyed myself I didn't ask you about when you had your second baby because that bit made me laugh out loud in your book. Would you mind please just telling me the story again because I'd love to hear it from you. So my Ernie was probably 19 months.

I was pregnant with my second child. At the time we were living in France because their dad played for a French rugby club and he was playing a match in England so I was at home with the kids. And I'd been for a big walk. I'd had a load of friends around and blown up a paddling pool and I thought oh crikey I think I felt like I was in labor but you kind of forget don't you and also in my head I haven't really got time for this because I was early this is not really what I want to be doing right now. I'm on my own in rural France, etc.

And so I phoned him. I phoned my family. I was like, I don't think I feel very well. But I couldn't say too much because they weren't there. So they couldn't do anything. So also in that moment, you're like, I'll be all right. In my head thinking I'm not all right. But they were in a different country.

So I phoned my friend who was nearby and said could you come and help with Ernie because I don't feel great she phoned the emergency services but in France the nearest emergency service turn up and my labor escalated massively so I had set off to the front door thinking I'll just drive myself to hospital but as I got to the threshold of the front door I was just consumed by pain so I was on my hands and knees in the doorway when the French fire brigade arrived oh my goodness and so my friend who had text had arrived she was there to try and help but I literally had the baby in the doorway on the kitchen floor wow and the French fire brigades who were beautiful in every way and lovely was so excited by the fact that they'd stumbled across a nice a nicer thing than a fire exactly and they started to tell me this is why

they'd become firemen because they were to help people rather than cut people off cars and I was like guys it's a lovely story not for now yeah absolutely not now and could you come to my head because between my knees is not where I need to be right now and so yes I had the baby there obviously and then stripped down so I'm in the back of a fire truck with the baby he had a little gauze on his head um my friend took Ernie off home and I rocked up at hospital with these three wonderful fire people in the back of a fire truck and that's how he was born and when was the bit where you were being hit on the head as well? Oh, yeah. When you thought you were playing? So because my Ernie had a plastic foam sword.

And I was on my hands and knees. Yeah. I was on my hands and knees in labour. And he thought we were playing dinosaurs. So he's like thinking I'm roaring. And because you don't want to. He didn't understand. He didn't know what was going on.

I couldn't even get him anything to distract him. So he's just sitting there whacking me on the head with a sword as I was delivering my child. That's the bit that made me laugh out loud. The idea of you with this little toddler, like, oh, great game. Like, ah! Yeah. And it was also in that moment,

people go, how do you do that? But when you just get on with it, don't you? Because you don't have any choice. Yeah. There wasn't anyone there to... I think it would have been worse if the fire brigade had got there earlier because you're sort of looking to them for support. Yeah.

Yeah, bless him. He had to. I'm not worried. Yeah. Well, good times. Just to jump to another thing we have in common, how did you find Strictly? Because you haven't...

It was pretty recent. So you're probably getting all the feelings resurging because you're watching all the new people starting again. Which always brings it all back, I find, even 10 years on. Does it? Yeah, it does, actually. Yeah, I mean, it's less than so, but for a few years, every time it got round to this time of year,

you'd be like, I remember the launch show, I remember the first week and how nervous I was and all of that kind of thing. Oh, it's mad. And yeah, I went and had breakfast with Gorka yesterday and I was like, I need to let go, don't I? I need to... It's mad. And yeah, I went and had breakfast with Gorka yesterday and I was like, I need to let go, don't I? Like, I need to... It's a process.

It was the most wonderful, brilliant chapter that I loved. In our WhatsApp groups, we still have like a... Everyone who did it last year is in the same WhatsApp group and they're all saying, oh my gosh, the anxiety of the music and the panic and all the nerves. But I was like, oh gosh, I'd drop back into it in a second if I go back in in a heartbeat. It was just... As you know, every bit of that show the makeup people are the best and they love

what they do and they're so passionate as are the wardrobe people the hair people the choreographers and you're just swallowed up by all of that aren't you that energy and that enthusiasm and that passion for what they do yeah no it's an it's quite intoxicating, I think, that atmosphere. Because it's sort of like nothing else, really. It's a sort of Disney-type jeweled thing, kind of. It's so extreme. That's what I said.

From the minute you walk over the threshold, it's a bit like being in Disneyland. Like, everyone... And they're all so fabulous, aren't they? You know?

I hang out... No, they really are, yeah. You know, and what I find is they're all... They really, like, gas you up, don't they? They're like, oh, my gosh, you're so... Oh, you're so fierce and you're so interesting you know am I

oh that you know they're they they have a real way to sort of make you feel make you stand a bit taller definitely and then actually you sort of start to inhabit that space a little bit because you're you're trussed up and you look at stuff in the mirror and you're like I'm not quite sure who that woman is but she looks like she's about to do some kind of tango. So let's just see what happens. Exactly. And you sort of, they go, the first few weeks, if you're not used to wearing that much makeup and that much hair,

it was a bit like, oh, this is weird. I mean, is this okay? Should I redo? I'll never forget Ellie Taylor, fabulous woman. Yeah, she's on the podcast too. She's brilliant. So we shared a dressing room and Molly and Fleur were in the next dressing dressing room and fleur i've known for years molly what a wonderful i mean she's just gonna be such a superstar they were they were so comfortable in that space because they're performers and they were like recording tiktoks and singing and in

the next dressing room there was will meller who was um acting out some scenes and he was getting into his zone and ellie and i looked at each other she was dressed as little Bo Peep and I was had like a glittery bra on and a wig and we looked at each other and she went what are we doing we've got mortgages and I think there were there were moments in the beginning where we were like what is happening here but you're right you inhabit that space and you're like oh I want to be like them I wanted to be as confident as as Fleur and as like and the dancers all go own it and I don't know what you mean yeah I know I know that's that kind of thing because obviously for them they've been doing this since dot and then you realize they're kind of like athletes actually they've been training for this

the whole time and in that competitive world and I do remember one week being so nervous and one of the dancers was like that's actually a really good feeling if you know how to yeah utilize it I was like okay I'll try and look on it as a real positive that I've got this opportunity to be petrified the light bulb moment for me was when I realized that they're petrified too like they you know they I remember speaking to Amy Dowden and she was like jumping around she was dressed as a bee and she was jumping around and I was like are you nervous and she went yeah of course I am she was like the minute I'm not nervous is the day I hang up my shoes she's like I'm nervous because I care because I want it to be good and I thought all right it's all right to be nervous you just want it to be good and how was it for you sort of when you've also got a very because

actually your youngest must have been just coming up to her first birthday around that right so how was your headspace when you've got so many other things you're dealing with and obviously I, I'm not going to ask any questions about your personal life, but I did feel for you because obviously there was so much press coverage about the fact you are now a single parent. I just wondered where you were digging deep from to get to go out and sort of, or did it kind of almost the extremities of everything? Almost like, well, I'm here now, I might as well just glitter this up and here's my dance exactly I just wanted to be in something that was so noisy there was so much noise in my life that actually strictly drowned it all out and it was the perfect thing and when I got asked to do it my friends were like why wouldn't you do this it's wonderful people wonderful dances wonderful costumes if nothing else they'll make you look fit

like just you know what's not to love about this at this chapter in your life so it was just a really good all-consuming thing yeah and there were weeks where I remember standing in Claudia's area one week and and obviously some people think really carefully about what they're going to say don't they in their answers and it's all they're like nervous about what they're going to say and Claudia went to me you're just thinking about what you're getting little Billy for his seventh birthday at the birthday party the weekend, aren't you? And I went, yeah. And so I actually think it was good because I had other things. I couldn't, do you know, the one thing I'm mad at is I never watched the show back.

Because I didn't really have time. Because I was, you know, you do the dance, you go off to do it. You're talking about Strictly and doing Strictly. I don't need to bloody watch it at the end of the week as well, do you? But that's the thing. I think because they kept saying to me, you to like rinse like you'll be better if you watch it and critique it smile it because they kept saying you look scared and all that and what you should watch it but I never watched it because I didn't have time but I think that meant for me

every week I loved it more and more and every week I got more and more confident and I don't know if everybody else found that but I found that because I got more and more confident and I don't know if everybody else found that but I found that because I got more and more consumed by it and I enjoyed it for what it was I definitely could see that in you and I think I sent you a text around that time just like you're smashing it and I think it kind of was like a very extreme version of seeing someone that I think even if I didn't know you I would have felt like a real affection. It sort of reminds me of like the way that like so many women can be just like being incredibly strong, but they've sort of they're doing it and just like getting out there and like you're willing them to be fabulous. You know what I mean? When you're like, it's just so good to see someone being like, I don't know how

to phrase it properly, but it's like, you're kind of like just completely behind. I was completely behind you. And then you did like some fantastic flipping dances and you're just like, it was like a real extreme version of like, I don't know, armor or emotional strength or something. I know I'm not articulating myself very well, but. No, you are. I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to say there's no vulnerability. And I do understand the notion of getting out and performing, but I think there's something about doing Strictly at a time

when everybody who does that show, and I think this is part of the charm, is at a point where they're ready to do something which is actually outside their comfort zone for whatever reason has led them to that. And you can sort of see that in people when they're there because nobody will, even if they've got bloody dance training, nobody walks in there like, I've got this.

And they've obviously all got things they've had to clear in their diary. There's a reason why they've gone, I'm going to make sure I can make space for this too. And I think that's what can be really powerful about it and what people engage with beyond if they've got the footwork right and what dance song they're dancing to. I hope so. And I think, again, now because there's so much noise

and it's social media and everything, you are conscious of what you're saying and what you're doing and I wanted to I just want to do the dances I just want to do the dances and try and do it well and and try and you know get through each week with a smile on my face and I think the more that I committed to just having a smile on my face the the easier it got you know like the last week the semi-final was full-on but the last week I remember just bouncing in there and just feeling so grateful and it wasn't lost on me the amount of people who messaged me and got in touch with me and and I remember when I did the samba and it was rubbish it wasn't it was not great and and Claudia's like oh it wasn't your easiest dance and

I said no but I don't think I'm on here to be the best samba dancer I'm on here to say sometimes stuff's hard sometimes you might look like a bit of a tit but have a go anyway and see what happens definitely I mean I remember thinking as well like I'm not going to wake up in a cold sweat like years from now I feel like oh my god I actually can't foxtrot yeah I'm at peace with my ability to not be able to do some of these things it's okay it's that having a go I don't as I said before you've got to practice what you preach haven't you I can't say to my kids have a go see how far you get if you don't do it yourself and how are you when you're watching your kids do stuff with not being sort of

neurotic about the fact that there's I mean for your parents they've had to watch you do risky things I'm not sure I'd feel about watching my child even if they're an adult doing tightrope walking between like Battersea Power Station and these things how are you with calming your sort of urge to go just get down from there oh I it doesn't sound like your kids would listen very much more than mine but that's fine but we like the spirited kids definitely I mean wasn't it wonderful and they've got so much character yeah when people go oh they're full of beans yes they are you're welcome that's a handful got your hands full there oh god how many people say that you've got your hands full. I know. And it's also at the time when they're normally watching something unfold,

like something dramatic, and you're trying to do, like, model the kind of thing. And I'm super chilled about this, actually. No, really, do please just get yourself down from there. We'll talk about this later. Yeah, exactly. All of that. So, yeah.

It's funny, isn't it? The eldest one takes a lot of stuff in his stride. The middle one, I watched him do a cross-country run. He doesn't, and he didn't like it. I really in my head I was like oh my gosh I just wanted to scoop him up and take him out of it it's hard I think every bit of parenting is hard isn't it you just yeah you think they come with a guidebook and they don't I think also if you're you want them to know you're capable but you also want them to learn the skills of it yourself themselves so you have to not sweep in and problem solve and that's something I'm actually quite bad at oh aren't we all it's like they're it's friends that's like friends isn't it you're like I really

want you to be friends with him oh but you're going to bring them home and I can't say anything about that I've got to let you learn for yourself he's better for you or she's better for you but again you've got to let them do it haven haven't you? Yeah, it's funny. I haven't really had it so much with the friend thing. So yeah, I suppose if they do, I think that's maybe waiting for me more in the like teenage-y bit when they have like, because actually I think when they're smaller,

the home life can still set the tone. So sometimes if someone's giving them trouble, I'm like, have them over. Let's do a charm offensive. Oh, good. I like that technique. I'll try that. I just often end up with 75 kids. I quite often go into my garden. I'm like, have them over. Let's do a charm offensive. Oh, good. I like that technique. I'll try that. I just often end up with 75 kids.

I quite often go into my garden. I'm like, who are you? Where have you come from? I know, but I love those kind of houses. Yeah. And actually, what elements are kind of similar to your own upbringing? Because I know being in the countryside and in the Lake District and being in the, like, you know, wildlife and nature

has obviously been such a big part of your upbringing. Very sociable very muddy and very outdoorsy so um i mean what and i'm loving now that my kids are growing up with a lot of my friends kids yeah so i know what their home you know i know what their approach to stuff is i know the kids so i was um in the party the other day and my boys got in the river and they had two of their friends with them but I grew up with their parents so I know it's fine like some kids if you took them home and said oh by the way your kids I've just let them get in the river

in September on a rainy day their parents might stress out but I know those kids so I'm like that's fine that's all good um so yeah I think to be, very similar to how I grew up, which I'm enjoying. I love that they can go out on their bikes and it's free because we've lived in quite a few places and cities. I was really surprised when I moved back to Cumbria how much I enjoy driving and looking at fields, opening my windows and looking at fells. You know, like the little two are always outside with no shoes on and I was like that and it was funny because someone was saying to me about Montessori and and um forest bathing and all of this and I was like oh no they're just doing it because they didn't they wanted to be outside before they had time to put their shoes on there wasn't some sort of emotional framework of why they're outside without their shoes on they just wanted to be outside yeah yeah definitely

and it feels like very much that you've sort of come to the bit that actually is the thing that maybe makes you feel, sort of resonates with you the most. Because I was looking at it, I was thinking you've sort of had almost your kids in three very different stages. Yeah. Because with your first baby,

it felt like when you were in France, you could just focus completely on, and you were there because your partner at the time, he was working there. So up sticks sticks that's where you are yeah and then but actually we really loved just being somewhere where it was just about that the simplicity of just being a new mum and and I feel that was a real gift in that sometimes people go oh that must have been hard you moved to the south of France when you just had a baby

I was like not really because the Mediterranean Sea was across the road the vineyard was on the other side of the road and actually I kind of got the freedom to... Some people love to go to all of the baby groups and need all of the different groups and to share things. And that was great. What worked for me was I made my own rules. You know, I did it in my way. And I didn't feel like I had anyone judging me.

And I didn't feel like I had anyone to compare. So I didn't know if I was good at it or bad at it because there was another you know he didn't there weren't any other kids so I didn't know if he was good at sleeping or badly behaved because there wasn't anyone to compare against yeah he could just be a kid and sometimes that comparison can be very unhelpful well it was just a really liberating chapter and again with work I didn't have the whole anxiety of our industry I should do this should do that because I couldn't it was an option yeah well I'm getting the impression that being able to do something on your own terms and make your own not having anything to compare to or

having a rule book to follow seems to suit you quite well yeah someone said to me the other day oh you're such a free spirit and I was like am I and I was like don't know if I am but then yeah I guess maybe I am I think the thing is you just got to get to a point in your life, where you own what you do. If you know it works for you, then it's right. It might not be right for everybody else. Someone said to me about kids, they need routine. If you need routine, I was like, that's perfect.

If it works for you, then it's the right thing. And do you think there was ever a question of the kids not being adventurous? Or do you think that every kid is instinctively quite into all those sorts of things anyway, and you don't really need, you can just, I mean, I've always felt like my kids make sense in open spaces. A hundred percent. My brother said to me, now that I've got my own kids,

I've realised why you're always outside. They're just better outside. Like mine, I'm just better outside. They run, and my mum used to tell me off, but again, she gets it. I used to say, the boys are like little puppies, walk some treats. Definitely.

Burn off that energy, give them some treats, get them up. But then aren't we all like that? Yeah, definitely. Actually, another thing, mentioning your mum, that's another thing we have in common is we both have mums called Janets. The Janets. Yes, shout out to Janets. Your mum sounds amazing, actually.

Oh, where would we be without Janets? And she's brilliant in that her chapter was totally different. She was a farmer's wife. She didn't work. But yet she's the first person to be like, you should go and do that. That's good. Again, I think she's just like, just get on with it. It's what it is.

There's no point dwelling on good things, bad things. There's no point. And my brother's always like, you can't take the good things if you don't take the bad things. So, you know, they're just like, that was that. Now it's the next thing. Just keep going. just keep going just keep going yeah I mean I think when you finished the ultra marathon the little clip I saw the other day um your brother actually had been the one who said I don't think you can do the Namibian ultra marathon and that actually alternatively gave

you a complete like impetus to like I'm right I'm gonna bloody show him and so when you finished do you remember what you said? Did I say something about you never know what you're capable of? Yeah. I remember. You said you never know what you're capable of, so if someone says you can't do something, just get your head down, because you probably can.

There you go. I think that's a perfect way to end, because I think it's such a good way for life. And I think, like I said, there's so much in your book that's just about this sort of a kind of like unsentimental kind of like quite sort of like swipe your hands kind of attitude to just getting things done but then also recognizing how much fun you're having while you're doing a lot of it too I'm so flattered that you've taken so much time to read the book and really because when you put something out you are a bit nervous and I feel like if that's what you've taken from it then I'm really happy yeah definitely and I think um it's just like a real like it's sometimes you read books

about about you know written by extraordinary people who've done amazing things and you feel a little bit left behind and a bit breathless but all the things they've done and I have not achieved I can't say when I ran that marathon or or a half marathon even, or I don't have any Guinness World Records. Are you still a holder of two? A few, yeah. A few? Oh, go on then, list them all, please. No, but then you say that. No, no, no, I really want to hear what a few is.

I don't even know what they are. I think mattress dominoes. Solo kayaking furthest by a woman. Yeah, no, I think that one's been, that's smashed. The high wire walk is a UK one. The mattress dominoes is random, but that's one. Yeah, but then again, it's... Don't one the mattress dominoes isn't is random but that's one yeah but then again what's the dominoes one remind me we all had a human mattress dominoes right yes stupid things like pancake flipping none of the good stuff but um but then i think success is all relative i've never performed on a stage i've never sung at a festival yeah and i did

have to very strenuously dance for 24 hours. There you go. It was very hardcore. Oh, I'll tell you another weird thing that we've sort of got in common. We both had to, we've either picked up or, we've either been picked up or had to pick up Brendan Cole. Oh, yes. I was a big Brendan Cole. In SASR. Bless him.

I love him. Yeah, he's good fun. He's so good fun. Yeah, the pure man. We had to carry logs on each other over hills. Yeah, bless him. I love him. Yeah, he's good fun, isn't he? He's so good fun. Yeah, the poor man. We had to carry logs on each other over hills. Yeah, impressive work. He's a very tall, well-built man. I think when he was over my shoulder,

his hands and his feet touched the floor, I think. Oh. Because he's so tall and I'm so short. That's quite the image. What I was going to say is, I think even though the things you have achieved are actually outside of the things I've touched but you the essence of it is about I think our own ability to find our own way to do things

and set out what works for you to get them done and not feel like you have to inhabit a different place to be that person doing those things. I'm so happy that that's what you've taken from it. You've managed to eloquently say that when I've waffled on for pages, but thank you. No, it's lovely. So I'm still loitering outside the vintage shop and I've just realised I have to apologise to Richard who edits my podcast

because there's a really noisy generator. He's not going to be happy about that let me see if I go around the corner here it's just quite busy everywhere can you hear someone's pulling along a wheelie bag there's people walking past there's cars going past hey it's busy Newcastle life guys I can't fight with the energy of this city. Thank you so much to Helen. Do you see what I mean? She's lovely and warm and, yeah, just makes you feel like... I think I was quite clumsy in my chat with her because I didn't articulate what I was trying to in the best way.

And we were talking about Strictly. And I said she was like this I suppose what it is we all know people who have been through maybe it's you been through a big life change like with Helen everybody knew when she was doing Strictly that she'd also just gone through quite a dramatic shift in her relationship as in her husband was not with her anymore and during Strictly it was also put in the press that he was with someone new and they were having a baby now this has happened to close friends of mine very similar things and my close friends have dusted themselves off every day got the kids into school on time got them in their uniform

even though on the inside they are fighting a fight just to put one foot in front of the other my one of my first ever podcast interviews was with myling class who spoke about just getting through the fire one foot in front of the other and i think strictly was like this caricature of that of that story that version of events really where someone is just dusting themselves down, putting on the sparkles, getting out there, doing the foxtrot, doing the dances, even though it takes all the strength

just to put one foot in front of the other. So that's what I was trying to articulate to Helen in a way that I don't think I quite got across. So I think I thought I'd make it clear to you what I meant. But yeah, really warm, wonderful woman and obviously as well in a very different chapter of her life and an exciting one and lots of good stuff happening and yeah, just a nice person to be around all round.

Good feeling when you're in a company. And I hope that came across, I'm sure it did. And my hand has nearly frozen to death because I'm holding my phone out while I talk to you. And, oh, Jess from my band has just come out of the shop. Did you get some good stuff? Did you get the jump? You're good, good.

Cool. All right, we're going to head back to the venue. It's sound check o'clock soon. But listen, thanks so much for joining me again. And we've got loads of excellent guests lined up for you so be kind to yourself and i'll see you next week thanks to richard for editing claire for producing lma for the artwork and you as ever for lending me your ears for a bit see you soon Thank you. I'm going to go. embrace it journey starts when you say so if you've got five minutes or 50 peloton tread has workouts you can work in or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs walks and hikes led

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