Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 115: Alex Head

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Alex Head is the founder of Social Pantry which runs food events with the wow factor, as well as a restaruant, and a cafe. I first met Alex this Summer where she was rustling up a banquet twice a day, in a tent at Latitude Festval. Two of the banquets featured food from 'Love, Food, Family' and Richard and I had the much easier job of meeting and greeting everybody there.Alex got into catering aged 16 when she was expelled from school in Saudi, just before her GCSEs. As she says, she was quite naughty. But she ended up setting up a sandwich-making business to keep herself busy.Fast forward a few decades and Alex now runs Social Pantry which she describes as a non-shouty and nurturing catering environment where she often employs ex-offenders, to help them create a new life for themselves outside of prison.Alex and her husband George had a daughter Roxy, aged 3, who was born just before the pandemic, and they now have a one year old son Eddie.Alex spoke to me about Eddie's diagnosis of Down's Syndrome while she was pregnant, and how she and George made the decision to continue with the pregnancy, and what a gorgeous, smiley boy Eddie is.  This I can vouch for, as I love to see Alex's happy Instagram posts showing Eddie beaming, at the centre of his family.  Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello. I'm home. The tour's over.

Look, if you came to see the band and I over the last 16 dates we've done, thank you so much. It's been incredible, actually. It's always a bit nerve-wracking when you do a tour because you've got no idea, you know, who's going to come, how it's going to go. And it's just been a really glorious tour. Really smooth, really fun, really festive, really joyful. Crowds have been awesome. Just been really,

really happy. So thank you. I'm a little tired today. Actually, not because of the gigs, but because we finished in Birmingham last night. then I had to kind of sort out all the stuff ready to come home and yeah just today I'm sort of packing stuff I got up at about oh blimey I think it was about quarter to seven this morning having got to bed about two so I definitely feel a little bit fatigued, but can you hear my joyful children downstairs? But I'm definitely, definitely happy to be back, but in that nice way where, like, everything's gone well and you're feeling really chilled. So I'm just going to close this door. That's my tumble dryer, just getting on with all my washing.

It's quite funny, actually. I just, all my tour clothes are, like, sequins and tinsel dresses and things and leotards. So you can't really, like, wash them properly. So I just, I don't know if this is how you're supposed to wash them this is what I do I always run a big bubble bath and then I kind of stomp in the bath and like slosh them around a bit it seems to work but it does look really funny I mean there's all these bubbles and all this tinsel and beading and sequins popping up through the suds um but yeah uh it's now kind of dark already so it's like the kids are home from school and uh I feel really sleepy now I feel like I could go to bed in about an hour let's see how I get on well I have to keep going they have their

Friday bedtimes they have to go to bed a bit later on a Friday. So they'll be putting me to bed at this rate. But yeah, my heart is really happy. It's such a good feeling. And, you know, as a singer, the thing is you just really want to always be in good nick as well throughout the tour. So I do want to give my immune system a little shout out because there were a few days where I could feel, you know,

that little cold or cough just knocking at my door and it just kept getting pushed back. So thank you to my immune system for keeping the pipes in order. Much appreciated. I got ill on the European tour that I did earlier in the year and still did all the gigs, but it's a horrible feeling. ill on the european tour that i did earlier in the year and um still did all the gigs but oh it's a horrible feeling you just want to enjoy singing it's just so nice when you don't have to don't sound like i don't know marge simpson uh and yes podcast uh here we are

this will be the last podcast before christmas um i did it like that because I don't think I've usually published over Christmas and New Year anywhere. I think just as the series have fallen in the past, I've sort of always stopped them, I don't know, December time and picked up again January. But this one time, the podcast very much is interrupted by Christmas and New Year. And I just thought, let's put it to rest. So we do the 16th, as we have done, and then it'll come back on the 8th of January. But I have a really lovely guest for you for the last one of 2023. So this is a woman called Alex, Alex Head. And Alex and I met in the summertime. I did a festival called Latitude really lovely festival and very nicely

Richard and I were asked to host one of the food tent days so they've got this beautiful tent there run by a catering company called the Social Pantry and basically on every day of the festival they would run two sittings of around 350 people 400 people each sitting so really big lots of long tables and they had different hosts so I know that Richard Curtis and Emma Freud did one day um had some chefs come in for another day and then Richard and I were on the Sunday the same day that we were also doing the gig. And it was this beautiful sunny day. It was a really busy day, but one of those really like bustly, good energy days.

So we did the first sitting of the lunch sitting with Social Pantry in this food tent. Then I went and we did our slot on the main stage. Then I did another gig doing an acoustic set and a little acoustic stage. Then back to another gig doing an acoustic set and a little acoustic stage, then back to the social pantry tent for the supper. And Alex was this calm, capable talent running the food side of things. So she's the CEO, the head of a company called Social Pantry, which is effectively a catering company. And the food,

the way they cooked was so good. Like they took our recipes from the book and just made them absolutely gorgeous. We'd already been lucky enough to try some of their food at another event that they'd been catering at where Richard and I were DJing. So I knew that they were really excellent with flavours. And Alex and I got chatting a little bit and I'd already looked up a little bit about her company. And I could see that also she was quite passionate about taking on ex-offenders so ex-prisoners were going to work for Social Pantry which really intrigued me because I do think sometimes people go into the system and then they come out the other side and it can be incredibly hard for people who've been through prison to get work. And obviously, having your purpose, having a sense of self, having your value in society and having a role is so, so, so important.

So people like Alex who are actively giving jobs to ex-offenders is just such a brilliant thing, I think. And then I started following Alex on Instagram, which is how I also saw her adorable baby Eddie. So she has two children, Roxy and Eddie. So Roxy is three and Eddie's one. And Eddie is a baby who was born with Down syndrome. And he's a gorgeous, smiley, happy little tot. And I love following his stories because he's just one of those babies where you see him smiling and it makes you smile. He's absolutely gorgeous.

But also I noticed that Alex had been very open about that experience her husband and I had had about finding out that their baby was very likely to be born with Down syndrome. And I just thought it's one of those things, isn't it? What do people say when they're having a baby most of the time? Oh, I hope he's healthy. And obviously healthy is a broad church. And there's lots of definitions about what that means to different people. But I do think we're maybe just not very well equipped with how to talk or how to navigate the experience where you maybe become part of the other side of the coin of what happens when maybe you do those tests and you get the results and maybe you are in that minority of people who are facing a different set of options so I really really really appreciate Alex being so open so

transparent and I genuinely think it will help other people in the same situation because I'd imagine what happens is you're bustling along with your pregnancy and then you find out you're actually given this set of options and this extra complication and you suddenly just think okay I need to actually try and work out what that means for me for my family and obviously it's all abstract because at that point the baby's just this idea of a baby and it's not really till you meet them that you start to break down how that person is in your world anyway I'm I Alex puts this way better than I ever could and it was a really lovely chat and I also think she's just a really really cool interesting pretty fabulous woman so

thank you to her and I will see you on the other side see you in a minute bye it's really nice to see you again yes thank you the last time we met was on a very lovely sunny hot day at Latitude Festival

yes where your brilliant team catered for I think two sittings of 400 each? Yes, I think so, roughly, yeah. Yeah. So tell me, I mean, I know a bit about Social Pantry, but I'd love to hear it from you. Tell me about your business.

Yeah, so Social Pantry, so we're an events and contract catering company. I started it about 12 years ago, all very organically, kind of just started cooking in my kitchen and said yes to every single kind of job that came in. So whether it was a press launch, a friend's wedding, kind of a dinner party, I just said yes to everything with the hope of growing it. And over the years have grown it to a good size. I've got a team of about 65 full-time staff and we do lots of office catering, which is

kind of one of the arms then event catering which obviously where we did your festival catering and then we also have two cafes and a restaurant um well that's a lot going on I mean because from the outside looking in I would imagine the catering world and working in food service industry in any aspect you can't kind of rest on previous laurels at all exactly yeah it's got to be very much keeping that consistency and keeping up because other people might step in to be the people they call I guess yeah totally I feel like we always kind of say you're only as good as your last event so the pressure is definitely on I think also to stay at the forefront of like food trends and kind of what's cool and making sure your events are so memorable. Like it's a really competitive market and there's so many

brilliant people out there doing it, but definitely workplace wise, it's all about kind of sustainability and nourishment. But on the event side, it's about having that like wow factor and like what can you do within their budget to kind of go above and beyond and just make it so statement and so exciting. So yeah, the pressure's on to always kind of perform and just to deliver again and again. And I think on the event side, we do about 30 to 40 events a week. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I didn't realize it was as much as that. Yeah, so it's quite, yeah, it's quite fast paced and quite fast moving. How is your head functioning? I only kind of engage with a certain number of them because that's only what's possible, I suppose. But I just, you know, my team are just so good. Like they really are just such professionals,

like intelligent, on it, kind of brilliant, brilliant, kind of event, you know, an events team who are just amazing. So the delivery of it, you know, is quite an operation behind the scenes. And then with each client, obviously it's just them that you're talking to. So it's trying to make that client. You feel like they're the only one yeah exactly never mind get the 39 yeah exactly and the caliber of some of them are really quite intense so it's kind of

also managing that client or agency or venue as well so it's a bit of a juggling act um but yeah we're kind of managing just about to stay on top of it, which is always a relief. Yeah, you're smiling, so that's good. Yeah, nervously laughing. Well, I can vouch for the food. It's absolutely delicious. Yeah, oh, you're so kind. No, honestly, really, really good. And I'm sure there must be, I suppose you started off with your job being one thing

and now it's kind of grown all these other limbs of all these other skills you've had to develop to be able to manage that. So where is your relationship with food itself at this point oh my goodness I love I love food um and I kind of grew up in a really big family and mealtimes are always so fun like chaotic but fun my mum was a really good cook my grannies were both really good um one granny kind of quite wild and the other granny quite fierce about entertaining like you know I think good adjectives for entertaining I'm definitely coming I think I like served her like Yorkshire puddings with a chicken once and she just was like what are you doing I was probably about 20

and I was thinking oh no so kind of she was just kind of I suppose really set the standard of like how to host really well and elegantly um but kind of always loved food and was always really interested and I think it always just kind of kept me out of trouble, kind of kept me busy, loved kind of cooking at home. And so, yeah, growing up and kind of discovering, you know, brilliant things in London, like Borough Market and some really cool places to eat, kind of just really fuelled that. So still really like cooking. I'm not that good at cooking, but definitely kind of play a real hand in kind of the menu developments and deciding kind of, you know, what are kind of good menu combinations and what's quite memorable and what's quite cool. So work with people like Rich and Sarah, our development chef on kind of, you know, using ingredients that are sustainable and seasonal and exciting and turning, you know, great ingredients and great suppliers into something that's really quite cool, I suppose. Definitely.

And one thing that popped out of what you were saying was about keeping you out of trouble, because I was intrigued to find out that your first, you sort of turned to catering when you'd been expelled for the second time. Yeah, I think so. I was so naughty. I think everyone always asks kind of what for, but I think looking back, I was just, yeah,

I suppose I was just kind of, yeah, love a challenge. I always want to be busy. And I think school just for me, sitting still and kind of learning, just wasn't really my thing. Yeah, well, there's two aspects to being expelled. One is obviously if you're just rebelling against where you're at. But then there's the other side of it, which has got a cry for help

element to it yeah and for a lot of people I think school represents something that goes against something quite integral to how they function and what makes them feel happy yeah it's just not a one-size-fits-all for yeah people just being able to find their way with it actually yeah exactly and I think it's a summer term before my GCSEs they basically just said like you can just kind of be from like study from home so um so I was like sure you know sounds good and so then I started a little sandwich company so we lived in Saudi and I printed some like clip art posters for my dad's office um kind of put them around and then people would like phone and put in their sandwich order and I'd make the sandwiches and then just kind of cycle them up to to his office and deliver them so kind of I suppose that's what I did whilst kind of revising for my GCSEs and

made a bit of pocket money and thought okay how hard can this be and how hard can catering and cooking be and now obviously know the answer to that yeah but it's actually pretty amazing that you found something that worked for you outside of it and kept you engaged and getting out of bed in the morning and yeah totally excited yeah and I think it's such a tough industry like there was I was often kind of I kind of chefed in some kitchens and they were so male dominated that I just wanted to prove them wrong yeah I'd kind of turn up for a trial shift and they kind of would look at me and think oh you're not going to last and I was so determined to kind of make it and last and show them that I could work hard and you know I could kind of I could definitely be that like starter chef or dessert chef or whatever you know in relatively

basic restaurants but I kind of was just determined to prove to them that I could work hard and succeed um because it was just really shousy kitchens and you know I suppose kitchens now just you know aren't like that luckily um but just wanted to prove them wrong so but maybe you've been part of the reason that culture of kitchens has changed because I spoke to Anna Horb about that as well. She spoke a lot about the sort of male-dominated world and about having to assert herself. So I think you've obviously got to sort of rewrite

how things have been done up to that point. Yeah, totally. Like now our kitchens are really, like, I'd like to say, yeah, they're definitely non-shouty, but I'd like to say they're quite nurturing as well. We've got all sorts of kind of backgrounds in our kitchens um and just having a calm environment like the team in there are running it's a it's a really serious you know it's a serious operation but it's also it's a really lovely environment to be in and hopefully you kind of saw that

latitude of that range he's like he's my exec chef and he's he's just really calm really on it kind of operating at a level and I think think that just kind of, I suppose, kind of creates a bit of respect and a lovely culture. So if anybody kind of comes into that with the wrong idea or, you know, it just kind of doesn't work because growing up in those sharty kitchens was terrifying. It was anxiety-inducing. I remember doing some work experience at a really big name in London

and walking there in the mornings, I'd be terrified. And I just thought, God, never would I put any kind kind of you know any any youngie or anybody else through that like there's just no need for that no it's actually a really um bullying sort of culture yeah isn't it yeah yeah and it's a tough industry anyway like you're working hard so like let's make it a really nice place to work so that's what I try and encourage well because you mentioned about people with different backgrounds because one of the things when I knew I was going to be um working with you at Latitude I started looking up social pantry and I was really interested and excited to see about all the work that you do with ex-offenders because I that is not something that every company is doing yeah but what a vital thing

so can you tell me a little bit about that yeah of course yeah I I started mentoring a gentleman called Ruben through Key for Life um probably about seven years ago and um he was my first ever prison visit and I was yeah nervous to say the least going in um he was in Isis prison which is by Belmarsh um so went in there to visit him and he was just great I kind of was thinking like what am I going to talk to him about like you know what have we got in common and actually we bonded over like giving up smoking like he was trying to give up smoking I was kind of you know had just recently given up smoking so we kind of had something in common and then we just kind of became like buddies I suppose

so what was the premise of you going to see him it was about mentoring mentoring for potential careers yeah no just kind of being at like just mentoring with the charity so on release we then kind of would meet up and go for a coffee and I was there as like a go-to you know if he needed help like I don't know buying a travel card or maybe setting up a bank account you know just when people come out of prison so they often will have an adult and a charity um like a mentor um to kind of support them so what made you want to do that in the first place I think it was a friend of mine's mum who said like I'd be you know it'd be quite interesting and so I kind of was like yeah do you know what and having been quite naughty when I was younger or you know I've been given a few second chances

I was like definitely like if they're being released into society like why shouldn't I support and help them so it was that charity actually who said will you employ one of the other other guys coming out so I got my team of about eight people in a room and I said are you happy to work alongside an ex-offender and they said sure so Suhail arrived and he started off about three days a week and he wasn't very like he hadn't really committed so I kind of said to him hey listen I'm a small company like you need to really come and commit and be brilliant so either do five days a week or don't bother and then he had a day to think about it and then he came and he did five days a week and he was with me for about four or five years oh wow yeah I kind of said to him like hey this is you know I'm still you know it's hard work to pay your

salary and you know you need to kind of come and be you know really be part of us and and he did that's so good that you were able to speak to him like that though so in a way that empowered him to feel the decision is with you yeah but if you're here yeah you're you have to show up yeah and that's what we do is we always just offer an opportunity so we had a gentleman come out of like Wandsworth prison for me last week and said could one of their guys come and interview so we said of course we always say yes he did a trial shift last Thursday and then he started this week so he's doing three days a week in one of our kitchens um and he's just asked kind of at the end of this week he's just asked another day a week so yeah we're kind of like the opportunities there take it be part of a great team you know

it's there for the taking and ultimately it's like a sideline of what we do like nothing can detract from delivering these incredible events so but we definitely kind of want to offer the employment and if they're there and got the right attitude and you know got the energy and you know you know want to be part of the team then we definitely take them on and do you think that has helped other businesses and companies have a similar open mind yeah I like to think so yeah you know years ago so if I wouldn't dare tell anybody because we were still trying to win the events and we were still a growing company you know we weren't a big enough brand and so I didn't dare tell people that we were like employing ex-offenders because it would just put them off but now the mindset's really changed and people

I think come to social pantry because of it or it's definitely cited as a reason so it's quite nice so now we talk about it the whole time um because we're so proud of it and I'll often do a talk and say like well if we can do it why can't if we can do it with a small HR department which is an amazing lady called Sylvia who works so hard with you know all the ex-offenders if we can do it with just Sylvia and I then these big companies should definitely do it like they've got big hr departments big support and big budget so they should totally do it yeah but yeah so i try and kind of spread the word but well i guess as well it for people who might have got an idea that there's a stigma to it you're really not really getting into the mindset of what someone might feel like when they're trying to get back into society yeah have a sense of self have a sense of purpose yeah but also for those

people you know after everybody who came i suppose after reuben would be someone that enters an environment knowing they are not the odd one out yeah part of something where there's an environment of acceptance and and seeing potential yeah exactly and some people would join and you know we'll just slot in and be great and some kind of join and and seeing potential yeah exactly and some people would join and you know we'll just slot in and be great and some kind of join and need lots more like tlc and support but sometimes we can have an ex-offender in the business and people won't have realized initially and that's also quite nice yeah it's down to them like um yeah it's down to them to kind of disclose it to the team like at no point would we reveal well sylvia and i know their crimes but

um just for kind of safeguarding and insurance purposes but for that we wouldn't ever disclose that like it's this you know that the judicial system says they're going to be released and that's their chance to kind of have a fresh start as such yeah um but yeah I think it is also so important to say that some of these especially the younger guys have had really tough start to life like care home to care home prison to prison and actually this is the first time they've been given an opportunity or people that they kind of, who are kind to them or have given them a chance or even listened to them.

So for some of them, they were, you know, it was slightly inevitable they were going to end up in prison. So it's trying to kind of break that mould, I suppose, for them. And for some people, they've just, you know, kind of messed up and landed themselves in that situation. And, you know, they're now kind of

just wanting to put it behind them. So I suppose we're kind of supporting that kind of fresh outlook. But some of them have had a tough journey. I bet. Probably the majority, I would imagine. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But I think, well, I think it's really magic, actually, because I think it makes you also, I suppose, question your relationship with what happens when you do fall into the, you know, if I want a better phrase,

the wrong side of the tracks. Because I think we've got a bit of an idea that once, you know, you've got the kind of, the people walking, the sort of straight and narrow, and then once you're off either side of the path, you kind of slip down into a sort of sub, you know, another world awaits you. But actually, if you can still get yourself back on track,

find your feet again, have you know financial independence other options be working hard be part of a team yeah if you can't if you can't sort of see the value in how our judicial system works and you really should be having other questions about it yeah totally and it's quite hard like some of these guys when they come out they face really real kind of challenge you know real challenges with housing, with setting up bank accounts. And I feel like sometimes I would struggle in that situation. And I've got a lot of resource.

So actually, they do need a lot of support. And sometimes there isn't a charity to help them or there isn't a family to help them. If they come out and they've got a family and somewhere to live, then their chances of re-offending is quite slim. But if they come out and they haven't got housing and they haven't really got any support or family, then it's a real challenge for them to kind of get back on track so we do do that extracurricular I think Sylvia's kind of done like the bus route with

one of them once we've set we've helped support with like you know bank accounts because that's quite simple for us and so we do kind of help where we can because I think there are real challenges that you guys face and that does inevitably mean it's so hard and then they're kind of back in that cycle so it's quite hard for them to kind of get out of it and then as an as an employer or in an individual I can totally support where I can well I think it's amazing because it means that you've got to I mean it does add to I suppose that the weight on your shoulders is you've got this this big team of people you you're 65 people, you're keeping motivated, you're 30 to 40 events, managing all the sort of nuance of the dynamics within that, that's a lot for you to do. But I

guess, do you find, does it give you kind of, are you energized about it? Yeah, I think that it is definitely a lot. And sometimes, I think what I quite like is some of our events we do are so high end and in just incredible places. So venues for incredible people. They might be really well-known people or just kind of high net worth individuals. And some of these events you see are like, wow, this really is the extreme. And actually to then be in a prison the next day visiting some people, it just keeps you really balanced.

I really like that because you could end up thinking, you could kind of get swept up in that whole event world and be like gosh wow why you know why you know why isn't everybody getting married at Blenheim Palace or like you know these kind of insane things or like why isn't everybody doing that for their wedding you know and you just think wow or insane events and insane you know venues actually kind of it keeps it really real for me as a you know it keeps me on the straight and narrow like just kind of not getting too carried away with like you know because some of the people we meet and houses we go to is just so wild and it's wonderful and that's an incredible experience

and we do incredible events for them and that's you know what makes social pantry so great and exciting but also on the other side having the prison visits makes you realize that actually gosh there's you know the two extremes and kind of it's good to kind of sit in the middle of that yeah I can totally imagine that and I know exactly I mean I don't have quite as much of an extreme like that with you know one day the posh things and then the prison but I definitely in my line of work quite often I'll sing somewhere where it'll be this very judgy but I often have to go on walking through the kitchens um yeah you know it's like I quite like the fact that I'm actually very much the like hired entertainer.

Yes. I pop. You're part of the staff. Yeah. And actually, they're not always having the most fun. Yes. At those parties anyway. Yeah, exactly.

It's quite interesting. It's like a little like, you know, an observational peephole into different worlds. Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. So while you've been building your business what was happening when you had your first baby so your daughter Roxy is yes three yes exactly yeah three so I think I had um I had Roxy in December um and then

the pandemic hit in about March I think so I was on a bit of a maternity I wasn't planning on having that long I think I was hoping to take like four or five I'll just see how it went really um I had a great team and Holly at social pantry like were totally set to kind of you know operate without me I think they were probably really pleased to not have me there for quite a while so like I could have taken you know as long as I wanted but suddenly I the pandemic was obviously kind of flying in and I was thinking like oh gosh okay this is this is more serious like this isn't going to just blow over um and so I suppose yeah I had had Roxy, Roxy was about three months old and then kind of got really back into work and did that kind of crisis management of of you know being a business owner and doing what I

could to kind of make Covid you know have at least impact as possible on the business. Actually that's an extra thing to think about. Yes it was a bit hectic so Roxy yeah but Roxy yeah was I suppose relatively straightforward and a simple baby so put like we put her in nursery I think for about eight months did you always want to have children did you always see that as part of yeah I think so yeah yeah I realize now now that my kiddies are a little bit older that the older they get the better they are I realize that that baby phase I'm probably less infatuated with actually like the older they get and like they're quite fun now to hang out with that that baby phase I'm probably less infatuated with actually like the older they get and like they're quite fun now to hang out with whereas that baby stage I was a bit like oh god

I'm not sure maybe in my head it was quite dreamy and actually in reality I was like maybe I was a bit bored I don't know maybe I think that's okay to say yeah a bit bored and yeah I did a few like mum classes and stuff which were lovely and had a really good like NCT kind of gaggle around me actually a really supportive group and group like, which were lovely and had a really good like NCT kind of gaggle around me, actually a really supportive group, like locally, which were lovely, but also quite happy to jump back into work. Yeah, I think, because I've quite a lot of children,

people say, oh, you must love babies. And I do, but that's not actually why I kept having kids. I think when they get a bit older, I think I'm actually a better parent for the bits where they get a bit older and you can hang out. And I like it when they get sort of like, when they get a bit older, I think I'm actually a better parent for the bits where they get a bit older and you can hang out. And I like it when they get sort of like, when they get to about three

and they're like this quite eccentric, crazy, and like objectively three is like, I think maybe my favourite age actually. Yes, is it? Okay, the optimum. I think, well, I like the fact that they've got, they're starting to get, you know, they can articulate things,

you can have fun with them, but they're also quite out there with their ideas. So I quite like the it's like hanging out with like a sort of small squidgy drunk person all day and I quite enjoy that and their characters come out as well sometimes I'm like oh gosh you're funny or you're sweet or I'm like oh my god you're awful definitely and I think we talk a lot about our kids personalities coming out but I think your parent personality as well yes is the thing you don't what kind of mum do I want to be like what what's the priority to me am I am I good what how am I

playing how am I doing this how am I doing that do I like reading books and you start discovering I'm actually quite good at that but I'm really not so good at that bit yes yeah definitely I'm not a playing mum I definitely like yeah Roxy and I love like a little trip like I'm gonna she's gonna slot it into our routine and she's always so excited to Roxy and I love like a Lidl trip. Like she's going to slot it into our routine. She's always so excited to go to Lidl. I'll take a Lidl trip over a soft play any day. Like that's definitely my preference. So yeah, lots of kind of cooking and baking.

But yeah. Perfect. But yeah, it's quite fun. And then also from meeting you, I started following you on Instagram and you have the cutest baby on Instagram, Eddie. So can you tell me a little bit about Eddie? Because obviously it came a little bit more complicated in that you came with, you got a diagnosis during pregnancy. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

So you've been really open about it. And I actually, though, I did read one post where you were considering you and your husband doing a podcast. Yes. About the fact that Eddie was born with Down syndrome and about what that meant to you yeah so obviously i think you know for you it must have meant like everybody has the tests and then you get the so obviously there's so many positives that come with downs but there's also the bit where your brain has to do an adjustment totally of where you thought things were headed and your expectations and then the new reality. So can you remember what that felt like?

Yeah, totally. I remember actually. I remember kind of seeing other parents who have children with Down syndrome, like being like, oh, the diagnosis was the worst bit. And I think I can completely resonate with that now. It was so challenging. Also, when you're pregnant, like your hormones are obviously all over the place.

So we went in, I think, for a 12-week scan and at that point they were like oh hang on there's a bit of a high chance of having the baby having Down syndrome and I was like oh what's a high chance and I think they said like one in three so I was like what's a low chance thinking they were going to say like one in ten and they were like one in 500 and I was like oh okay this is kind of quite a lot to take on board so we kind of um they asked if we wanted some further tests. At that point, we were like, yes, definitely. I actually grew up in Saudi with two families that have girls with Down syndrome. So I was familiar with it.

Which is actually quite a massive help. Because for a lot of people, anything that's unexpected, if you haven't got any experience of it, the abstract notion of it just sort of hangs there. And would be terrifying. And actually, Katie, who I grew up with, loves Eddie and actually thinks she's Eddie's auntie, so we're really quite sweet. But yeah, so we were then in this kind of limbo phase, as I call it, where we were having more tests, which are pretty

grim. It's quite intense and at no point can they kind of tell you any definite answer. And then because we were with all the medics, they're relatively negative about it because of all the associated kind of, I suppose, medical conditions that become more likely. Whereas now, if, you know, with the therapy groups that Eddie's in, you know, if you were to talk to the therapy, you know, teachers as well, you'd get such a different kind of outlook on it. That's interesting, though, isn't it for you that it almost must have felt like a sort of shade and light? Yes, it was. I definitely have to say it was up there and like being one of the most stressful times um and then there's you know George and I trying to kind of make this

decision really we had this decision and the the most kind of startling fact is that nine out of ten people will terminate the pregnancy so I kind of in my head was like wow if we had nine ten friends in a room you know we would be stood here and nine you know and that's across the board of everybody that gets this diagnosis so I felt like we were really going against the grain and we were ultimately I'm actually quite shocked at that actually yeah yeah because I don't I suppose there's so much of a positive association maybe though because I've only I've met people I know family members and yeah but I don't I haven't had been in the journey pre that but it's just the diagnosis yeah and you're kind of so basically

we kind of then took a couple of weeks and obviously I took a bit of time off work it was it was definitely stressful but I was quite keen on like I think I'd kind of come to the decision in my head but I had to make sure that George was fully on board of course there was any bit of him that wasn't then you know but then we kind of had this slight heart scan pending at 20 weeks they do a heart scan and at that point they they could have told us that maybe the pregnancy wasn't viable or actually we were kind of good to get the green light so it was this awful limbo period where you're getting more and more pregnant under those big baggy jumpers and you're exhausted and you're looking awful and you can't tell anybody and I definitely didn't want to tell anyone at work we'd obviously told like close family members who are never going to

advise or give their opinion because you know they're just there supporting my dad was amazing like sisters were great so it was really you know know, but really the decision came down to George and I. And so we kind of got to this point where we were comfortable kind of moving forward. And then we had the heart scan and that was a couple of bits, but nothing, you know, nothing alarming. So we kind of rolled on through. I quite liked it. We had loads of extra tests during the pregnancy. So that was really lovely. And then luckily, you know, kind of quite fat Eddie was born in April. And it was really, yeah, really lovely and kind of haven't looked back. But had a bit of time in like intensive care or that NICU bit

where they're an amazing midwives and, you know, that side of it. And we've kind of, yeah, he just keeps getting better and better. There was definitely a lot of anxiety around the beginning, but I'm kind of so, yeah, I mean, I don't really think back to that kind of decision very often really um I look back on the pregnancy as being like gosh that was definitely tough but kind of once Eddie was born I suppose you kind of put that behind you and then he's just developing into quite a character yeah I'm finding it all quite moving I suppose because I I'm only the person that's just seen all these like really lovely happy pictures of this gorgeous boy who's clearly surrounded by so much love.

And I suppose I wonder how, if there's a way to have conversations with people who are in that situation that you were georgian that would put things in a slightly different light. Totally. Because it doesn't sound like, I feel like the emphasis may be i mean i don't want to say to be glib if there's if it's a complex diagnosis that has lots of potential factors to it yeah i can understand the seriousness of course of that but once your baby's here that's just a thing that happens to be part of them i would imagine yeah it was so so I think also I think that the reason I wanted to kind of do the podcast was because when we were in that phase there was nobody that we could because I don't know if people would talk about having made the decision

to terminate like I don't know if people openly talk about it so once you have a childhood dance syndrome there's a great community and there's lots of people talking about and advocating for it and it's a really you know it's a really positive world but that bit when you find out during pregnancy it's there's nobody I know that would talk about it or there's nobody that we could kind of go to yeah um or kind of it was it's just really undiscussed and fair enough because you know I could have argued it both ways like the kind of decision really strongly both ways and that's what's so difficult so I feel like you know who would really kind of openly want to talk about it so you're kind of in this very lonely isolated world and you're pregnant which is just so

stressful and so and it's just your decision and making any really important decision when pregnant is quite you know it's not the best time to be kind of making that decision no and you feel like you've got a big countdown clock of everything you've got the pressure of just like yes yeah I just all I know is there's a moment of no return. And all the medical terminology, I'm like, oh my goodness, I go to an appointment, George will be like, what did they say? I'll be like, I can't remember. I can't remember.

I literally don't know what they said. And he'd be like, right, so I think there was one appointment he didn't come to and he came to every single one. So it's just intense, but that bit's so undiscussed. So I'm quite happy to kind of talk about it because I think sometimes it might just help somebody that's had that diagnosis a couple of people have reached out and been like we've just had a high chance or because you don't get fully diagnosed with it but you know we're in this position and I've kind of and I think people

probably think I'm going to be really positive about it because of Eddie's Instagram now but actually I'm like oh my god it's the worst isn't it are you okay and they've openly said like oh it's awful no one understands I'm like I get it I get it it was honestly the worst it was it was just such a difficult difficult time yeah yeah and I think we've the the casual conversations that surround so much of pregnancy babyhood fertility all these things are so they're so casual that we talk about it like the weather. And it's such a thing we say, I don't mind what it is so long as it's healthy. Yeah.

But the connotations of healthy is broad and wide. And what does that mean anyway? We don't really break that down and do anything. Yeah. You know, and I think, you know, I haven't experienced what you have, but I did have it where my first baby was born two months early. Oh, wow. I got something called preeclampsia.

Oh, yeah. So I went from being like, oh, I've still got ages to go. I'm going to get big and fat. This is the kind of birth I want. Yeah. To, oh, no, no. Baby's here. This is stopping now.

Your baby's being born early. They're going to be in intensive care at the hospital for a while. And it's like you've just slipped into this little tiny bit at the bottom of the manual where it just says sometimes this happens yes but then there's no chapter yes in your book yeah for that bit okay i'm not oh okay i don't need eight but that's eight and nine that didn't happen to me yeah and you and also when your baby is born and they're immediately a patient yeah there is a seriousness around that and at the hospital not really encouraged to speak to the other parents not really encouraged to look at the

other babies because they're all patients and they're all having their different levels of seriousness around their medical situation so it's quite yeah it's quite intense yeah and you want to be able to celebrate i'm having a baby this is a happy thing yeah totally but the manual of how to navigate it if it's outside of the norm suddenly feels like oh yeah awfully quiet in here yeah and i think we were given this like dusty old book they kind of like got this book off the shelf and kind of blew the dust off and they were like here you go and we were like okay great like thanks it was just so yeah so yeah it was definitely difficult but um eddie now has kind of odd checks. When I go back to the hospital, I'm like, oh gosh, wow, we're so lucky that he's healthy and good.

Like it kind of takes you back there to that beginning bit. And you're like, wow, gosh, what are concerns back then, you know, around his heart and around other bits. I like, oh, they're not even a concern now. It's so lovely. You know, like actually I kind of think, gosh, we're so lucky that he's good and, you know, almost walking. And he's just progressing really well, which is is great but also there's no pressure on that but yeah the odd hospital visit I do think gosh wow we were in we were in it when we were here yeah that was a phase I've probably just blocked it out and actually you know we're now just kind of looking ahead which is great but

I do feel super kind of lucky and blessed that actually there wasn't anything more serious with Eddie and we aren't in there every week or we're not still in there yeah and so i do kind of you know super grateful for you know for the fact that it has been relatively simple well i'm really glad you feel comfortable to talk about and thank you because i do think there will be people who will be seeking out hearing anyone talk about what that's like and um and all all the sort of um emotions that surround anything that just falls outside of the typical, really. And I think, I suppose now, what's your relationship like with Down syndrome now? Yeah, I kind of, I'm still kind of on that path of kind of, you know, fully understanding it and fully come to terms with it.

Like, I suppose I'm still on quite a few firsts, I kind of call it. So I kind of, I've stopped kind of when I introduce Eddie to people saying he has Down syndrome because I realise people can kind of see it when they look at him. But I now can't really see it. Initially, I could really see it when I looked at him

and now that's totally worn off. That's just him. Yes, and now when he's being a bit loud and a bit shouty, I kind of have to, you know, I find myself saying, oh, he has Down syndrome. And they're like, yeah, I know. And I'm like, oh oh oh can you tell oh so like it's and I think on a train actually somebody stopped really kindly I was like oh gosh my brother has Down syndrome and I was like oh okay and you can I just so there's a few I suppose I'm just kind of getting comfortable with

everything but George is great with it like I think we emailed the nursery to see if they had you know a little spot for Eddie and I said did you say he has Down syndrome and George was like no why should I tell them and I was like oh well I think you need to nursery to see if they had, you know, a little spot for Eddie. And I said, did you say he has Down syndrome? And George was like, no, why should I tell them? And I was like, oh, well, I think you need to kind of say that. So like George is, you know, as if it's all completely normal. And I'm kind of, I suppose, still kind of on that path of getting used to it. But being in that world of a disabled child, I've met some amazing mums, amazing therapists. We're in such a supported kind of borough and with some brilliant kind of charities.

So it's really, you know know we really feel so lucky um and actually some of these other mums are just amazing and you just realize wow there are so many incredible people out there with you know with children that have got conditions different to eddie's as well and sometimes far more you know far more difficult to manage and you just sometimes think like wow gosh they really are incredible or where it's their first child or a very something really complex I just my I mean hats off to them for kind of you know being on that journey so it's amazing again it shows you a totally different world um and again like not that I was in that competitive mum phase ever but um it's like totally takes you out of that like I think if somebody says to me oh my son isn't you know

walking it or something I think oh my goodness don't even worry and then I won't tell them about Eddie if they don't already know or I'll gently be like oh don't worry Eddie will be so far behind like you're good on that so it kind of I suppose it just dissipates those you know it kind of takes you out of any of those silly worries about developments or anything like that because you're just on his journey and it's quite enjoyable yeah i think that's there's a lot to be said for for that i mean obviously look it's a very extreme thing to have to experience because you're all you want is for your child to live a life where they can you know have amazing adventures and be surrounded by good people and all the good stuff in life but i think so there's definitely that adjustment but I think I mean as in of caring

about them and your heart isn't there I mean your heart's with your kid no matter what's going on in their life yeah but you just think I just don't want them to be too vulnerable I want them to feel protected and safe and happy but I think um the fact of the matter is there'll be hurdles you cross with your kids no matter what highs and lows and times where they're going to find things challenging there might be struggles that happen to them and you do fall outside of those you know the milestones and all of that and everybody's got a different version of what that looks like and you've just had to deal with it and a lot more of a um you just had to that's it you've known you know that that's where you're at

yes and nobody some people will be blindsided by things along the way yeah totally yeah and I feel with Eddie you kind of we've slightly got the measure of it which is quite nice in a way but yeah looking around schools for Roxy kind of in my head I'm thinking gosh how would Eddie how would Eddie be here like you're already kind of thinking of that but yeah I yeah I suppose you kind of never quite know what what's going to happen it might be that Roxy becomes far far more challenging than Eddie but yeah I feel like at the moment it's quite positive which is good really but we're not even that so much but like I think also the way the family you have and the people that you know that join your family along the way that just becomes how things are yeah and for your your family always

make a big impact on you that becomes you know always is such a big deal for you so for roxy having a brother like eddie's gonna always be like this thing that's gonna have shaped her life in a way that's gonna have so many positives and gorgeous things to it yeah and it's so helpful now because i think on the front cover of Vogue the other day there was that beautiful model who has dads and then there's George Webb said there's been the Irish film so there's so many like pin-ups I think I did a post a few months ago about gosh you know there was five or six kind of big things I think what you know a gentleman with Down syndrome won the Oscar so it was just so great so I was like actually like Roxy's growing up with them on TV and, you know, it's far more familiar.

So, yeah, there's definitely less of a, you know, less of a challenge. You know, it's a bit more normal as such. And actually that is huge because I think the fact that we've now got so much better about inclusivity and I think for so many people growing up in previous times, they must have just felt like, I can't see anyone that looks like me. Yeah. You know, for all kinds of reasons totally yeah and actually it's quite embarrassing that that's how we always 100% what the narrative that was on in books on tvs and felt everything

has always been so conventional when I don't really know very many people at all that subscribe to the convention yeah yeah so true it is awkward isn't it sometimes when you see you're just thinking or thinking back you're like gosh that is awkward but yeah I love yeah I love the fact that there's kind of far more yeah yeah far more people with Down syndrome kind of peppered around or maybe I just notice it more that's the other thing I was like maybe I just notice it more now I'm in that world I think there is a bit more visibility on it which is good I think so is a bit more visibility on it, which is good. I think so, definitely. And like I said, just the nuance of individualism

and all the people that are around that actually can see themselves reflected in things now. It's definitely, it's still got a way to go, but it's definitely better. Yeah, on that path. Yeah, definitely. So when you've been, look, it's enough to have a three-year-old and a one-year-old.

Yes. No matter what your job. But how, what's the shape of things if you're so driven with your work and you have to be so present? I mean, you were telling me before we started recording that last night you popped into one event and meant to stay 15 minutes and ended up staying for two hours. So how does it work with giving yourself the space

to prioritise work when you need to as well? Yeah, it's definitely a juggle for sure and I think I'm kind of getting better at that I've now realized that if I'm working two nights in a row that feels just too much to be away from the kids also I'm getting too old like that's too exhausting for me so like two nights out like that that's enough um ideally there's a night in between I'm kind of at home doing bath time. So in terms of like the evening work, it's definitely kind of there and I will pop in and pop along, but I'm not kind of needed and you know, not needed there. So I'm not working really late nights anymore. That was kind of done in my 20s. So I'm quite lucky that I've got a really brilliant team. But it is

definitely a battle like at points you can kind of be present somewhere, but mentally somewhere else, or there'll be points where I'm like, gosh, I should be with the kids now or I'm at home and I think actually you know I should have been at that event so you're constant kind of constantly re-evaluating it but George is amazing like he's incredible kind of um yeah really good really supportive you know on hand if anything needs can be dropped and I need to kind of run to work and then at work got an incredible team who if anything needs to be dropped and I need to go to the kids but I I think still mapping it out, I suppose just still kind of working out what I kind of can manage. And as the business grows, working out what's really needed and where am I really needed.

So kind of becoming a bit more grown up in how I kind of spend my time. But I definitely want to kind of be part of the team and on the ground and, you know, at the events and popping in actually is really important. So that probably won't stop. But it's also making sure that I've got enough energy to like, you know, sensibly run the business and get it, you know, at the events and popping in actually is really important. So that probably won't stop, but it's also making sure that I've got enough energy to, like, you know, sensibly run the business and get it, you know, keep it, you know, going in the right direction. So, yeah, still just juggling it all, really.

And was having the restaurant and the cafe always part of the vision? Because that's, is that slightly different hat to wear to the cage? Yes, yeah, slightly. So we've got a little cafe on Lavender Hill, which is really sweet. We're kind of doing a little series of supper clubs, which is sweet. And it's good for a little lock-in party. That sounds cool. Yeah, it's quite fun.

Over the years, I've had many lock-in lasagnas, which you call it, which are wild parties. So that's quite fun. And I think I started that about 10 years ago. So that just kind of put us along. And then the restaurant and the cafe are in Design Centre in Chelsea Harbour. So we're kind of there with the client. And we run restaurant for them and we run their cafe for them so it's a slightly different setup but yeah that's under a sites team um so that bit kind of is relatively self-sufficient but obviously under the umbrella is social pantry it's um and then we have workplace as well where we're in-house at law firms and feed

offices and tech firms um on a daily basis and that runs relatively self-sufficiently as well it's the events that kind of um you know I suppose there's a bit more seasonality to it and sometimes it's just really exciting clients and and kind of definitely is you know really needs me to be there um but there's a lot of events that just run like clockwork and and don't take my tl you know need my kind of tlc But I guess with the events, you need to have that bit at the beginning when you and the client are feeling like they've got your whole attention, you're going to deliver what they...

Yes, totally. A lot of pitching, a lot of kind of, a lot of incredible tastings, wining and dining, making sure that they are just feeling, you know, kind of so well looked after. I actually hosted a dinner last week at the National Portrait Gallery. I had 60 guests and we did a private view of this amazing exhibition called Yvonne.

She was a woman that put like colour on photography in the 1930s. Oh, that sounds gorgeous. Yes, it was really cool. So we kind of hosted, yeah, 60 clients. It felt so grown up doing a speech at the beginning. I was like, gosh, I'm nervous. Like this is really exciting and amazing. So there's some really great parts to it.

Lots of it kind of fills me with anxiety, but it's all kind of going in the right direction. But yeah, big clients and making sure that, you know, we're just wowing again and again. So how do you keep yourself sort of still focused with all that? Is it just, does it just rely on you having that passion for it? Yeah, and I think keeping it exciting. So I've just booked for Sarah, Rich and I to go to Japan in January

because I was like, and Sarah went to Helsinki last year, I think, with a couple of the team members. So, and yeah, we're kind of doing a Paris food trip. So just making sure that we're kind of always at the forefront of like food sourcing, you know, food trends, food suppliers. So do you have to go around trying lots of different things? And eating out and kind of like... I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. It's such hard work. But yeah, but yeah japan i was like let's go this is going to be really fun like let

like there's just enough that sarah's going to do a little stage so she's going to go and work in a restaurant over there so we're just going to finalizing that so it's just kind of keeping it exciting and also saying yes to stuff that i find exciting so like latitude when they were like will you come and do this feasting i was like yeah do you know what yeah that sounds quite fun like it's not the biggest money spinner but I enjoy that and it's fun and it's exciting and you know and so it's just saying yes to the projects that keep it exciting obviously you have to do some of the stuff that's less exciting but I suppose we get quite a lot of opportunities put our way and it's saying yes to what's fun and it's never boring because it's always changing always new things yeah you yeah

you sort of like experiences and yeah and I've got an incredible team and I kind of need to keep them motivated so it's kind of like how do I what opportunities will keep them engaged and keep them working for social pantry how do I keep how do I retain them and that's with exciting growth and their careers you know being exciting and for of good things I suppose but I suppose it how did you always envisage that it would turn into a business on this scale no kind of just sort of taking you with it totally gone yeah it's completely taken me with it and I'm like oh my goodness like I was thinking the other day like how many times do I fill out of my depth and I'd probably say nine times out of ten really yeah imposter syndrome is really quite big um and having never

worked for a caterer like I've got brilliant people that work for other caterers I'm like how do they do that or like can you tell us like and so having never worked for a caterer I feel like oh gosh how do I you know how do I map this out and and so I'm making so many mistakes um but I feel like as long as you learn from them that's okay and as long as they're not too big a mistake I always feel like there's no appraisal as the boss you don't get like your feedback or but the fact that I'm still in business is kind of the appraisal like so it's kind of working out what are the good next steps but yeah I yeah I think there's a good yeah a good number of days in the week I think gosh this is a challenge or this is quite anxiety inducing

or like how do we you know how do we kind of how do I kind of handle this and I suppose it's because you're always experiencing it and it's always quite new I haven't done it before if I was to you know go and start another catering company it'd be very easy and probably feel quite comfortable um but kind of growing it at this level often I'll kind of think wow gosh this is this is quite full-on it sounds like you've done a lot of learning as you go but also you it sounds like you're really good at listening to the team around you and kind of thinking right is how can I keep this evolved and nurtured and so it's got a lot of um it's very personable on the inside yes yeah because it's such hard work like I think the hospitality industry you're always like you know

like you you're always entertaining when people are partying so like you know when people are on holiday those holiday periods you're there like cooking. I confirmed, I think, two events on Christmas Day last week. So there'll be two bougie private families that, you know, teams will be at. So it kind of doesn't stop. So you're always kind of hosting and cooking. And so the team, you know, trying to look after them and keep them kind of nurtured

when they're working quite hard is a real priority because it's hard work and it's late nights and it's tough at points. But, you know, they love it and they're in the industry because they're driven and they're good at it and they're very passionate but keeping them kind of you know with a good work-life balance is really important and something I really try to do because I need that to operate so they definitely do as well and it doesn't mean you just have to have kids to have that work-life balance like they need it you know you need it just to be able to operate it. So I suppose having kids kind of forced me into a bit more of a work-life balance.

But with the younger team, it's about making sure that they do feel well looked after. And that's a bit of an aim. Are your kids good at eating? Because I imagine that would be something that's quite key to you to get them excited about flavours. Yes. So Roxy said to me the other day,

she's like, I don't like your plain food. And I was like, oh no, Georgia's a really good cook. And like, can whip up a food, like, you know, something out of nothing and loves a curry. Like, his flavours are really good. And the kids love that. And with my kind of, you know, pasta and cheese, like, just doesn't kind of wash. She doesn't want that anymore. Where's the truffle?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she's going to be dreadful. But yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's good though because i think food is emotional isn't it at the heart of it i mean so your childhood where were you born in saudi no as my dad was in the navy so we kind of were posted around wow so born in australia and then posted back here did a few years here and then mom and dad were posted to saudi um and i think we were there for about five or six years which is really lovely amazing culture and great food and just a cool

experience what do you think it teaches you if you have a childhood where you move around a lot like that do you know what I really enjoyed it um and I would be so keen to kind of like doing a broad move I think it's so I think just experiencing different cultures and different way of life and kind of different languages I think is so exciting um and makes you realize that there's this whole world out there like i've been lucky enough it really inspires me like travel i love to travel and love to kind of get abroad and like explore because i think it just takes you out of the rat race and it kind of gives you perspective um so experiencing another culture and living in it is just is exciting i always think you can always kind of come back to you know to the UK and but yeah I would love to kind of always jealous of friends

that are living abroad and that can just go with work or you know do a couple of years somewhere I was like oh that's the dream um but yeah I think it's exciting and maybe gives you a little bit of resilience as well because it means you can sort of up sticks yeah be somewhere else and have to start again a little bit like you know new friends new school yeah new everything yeah totally and I yeah I think just that whole experience is is so exciting um and that the world's big there's a lot of amazing places to go and live so yeah we definitely try and kind of travel a little bit um when we can we're kind of taking three weeks off at Christmas a because it's really needed but b we were like let's just kind of duck out of duck out of social pantry for a few weeks I'm quite good at knowing when

to kind of take that time for ourselves and a family but it'll just be lovely we'll come back you know with you know again with different ideas and you know being excited about everything again and just that refresh but we're going to Sri Lanka which would be really lovely amazing yeah but like good food and just a bit of downtime I think is just so important and we're lucky enough that we can kind of can do that and fit it in that'd be gorgeous yeah I think also I'm quite impressed with your your family because some people whose parents work in something like the navy with their daughter coming out of the second school might not have been like okay we can find a positive and yeah you know keep you engaged yes. So that's quite, I mean, how do you feel now looking back

on the fact that you stopped going to school, but then they found help to you? Yes, I think my mum always knew that I was quite naughty. She had quite a good sense of humour, which was lucky. You need that. Yeah, and there was four of us, so it was quite busy. But yeah, I think I remember her getting me some work experience at the Hyatt Hotel.

So because I was a woman in Saudi, you couldn't work. So I had to go to the outside catering department and wear my abaya fully as I like carved shawarma in like the 50 degree heat. And I did that for like, you know, two or three weeks. And that was really good. So I think she was always seeking out like opportunities that would kind of keep me, I suppose, energized and interested. And I suppose hospitality is such an easy entry industry. You can kind of you know join it and not have to have that many skills and you know you can kind of make your way in it by

learning on the job I suppose so yeah there was that I suppose there was a bit of kind of energy around like keeping me busy and yeah I mean you say it's easy but I think actually I think working in something like catering or hospitality it's actually one of the hardest because I think it's proper graft and I think working alongside people and the pace of it is full on. And I really take my hat off to you because I think whenever I'm at an event or anything where there's catering, I just look at the people and how hard they're working. First to set up, last to leave,

having to navigate the way people are at events, everything, getting the food on the table, everything served simultaneously. I think incredible yeah oh you're so good I love that you recognize that like I do try and kind of explain yeah I do try and kind of also when we're kind of doing tastings with clients I'll always say how brilliant the team are I'm like I kind of don't let them leave that room without knowing that they are it's incredible to be able to kind of pull off these and also it's quite a transient industry at a low level so a lot of your waiting staff you know it's not like it's their career for them they might be traveling they might be able to kind of pull off these things. Also, it's quite a transient industry at a low level. So a lot of your waiting staff, you know, it's not like it's their career for them. They might be travelling, they might be at uni,

out of work actresses, you know, might have just finished studying for a summer. So it's trying to get them energised for like, you know, for an event that's going to be quite hard work and it's, you know, you kind of need them on board. But yeah, so there's a number of elements, but it's exciting when you get it right, I think. I bet as well you hear stories about people being quite badly behaved because i think you know when you're out

with you can tell quite a lot about people by how they are with the people that are putting their food down for them and yes serving them i hope i hope people are mostly nice but i bet sometimes people are horrible we've kind of definitely experienced it you've got a blacklist somewhere i bet you've got like a little mental blacklist of people, rude people. Yeah, there's a few and you just have to smile and think in your head like, oh, goodness me. So, yeah, I feel like we've experienced most of it. But yeah, and that's the other bit. You've got to just stick together in that situation when they're pretty, you know, if they're ghastly, you just think, oh, my goodness, you're kind of in it together. But yeah, there are still some people out there that maybe don't understand kind of what it takes to pull it off yeah definitely well no I'm impressed

and I think what you've built is brilliant and please keep putting the cute pictures oh yeah I will thank you so much for having me Hi. So, it's quite funny, actually. I just tried to record my little round-up at the end of the podcast, and I was downstairs. I knew it was risky because the kids are all downstairs. Honestly, it was like a press record, and then it was like, doorbell, people come and speak to me, one of the kids having a fight, someone else getting annoyed, loads of shouting.

So I've had to run away upstairs. Oh, I mean, look, it's lovely to be back home with the family, but I'm not going to lie, there's aspects of touring where you're like, oh, my God, this is so nice. I spend all the day, you know, before soundcheck, just sort of doing what I feel like doing. When did you get to do that in normal life? It wasn't wasted on me, I promise you.

Turns out I'm still really good at things like lions and going for long walks around cities and finding a nicer coffee shop and going for brunch and looking in vintage places. I'm very happy. I can make my life very, very simple. But it is good to be home. Of course, it is good. I've been so looking forward to Christmas. Anyway, I'm rambling a little bit because I got distracted. I want to say a big thank you to Alex.

What a woman. And so cool to hear, again, not that we know, we know know this don't we really but that you know people who maybe find the school system a bit of a clunky fit can go on to do such extraordinary interesting things but also then they can really empathize with other people who maybe fall outside of the you know the norm so she's you know when she's working with the offenders she's like I get it like if you're if things have not worked out for you, it doesn't mean that people have to give up on you. There's other things you can achieve, other things that can give you purpose and make you feel good in life and good about yourself. So I think all that stuff is just so brilliant. So it's an absolute joy to talk to Alex properly

and really sort of go a bit deeper on everything and what motivates her and how it all works and yes I mean look following you know people who've got cute babies on Instagram is nothing new but I do really recommend the pictures of Eddie he's such a beautiful little bubba just makes you smile when you look at him he's adorable and uh I really appreciate the conversation that Alex and I had I think it's fantastic that um she's so open but also um what a happy ending so that's all good and now um I've just ordered myself I'm being really lazy tonight it's a Friday night it's cold outside I'm absolutely wiped so some fish and chips I think is going to be what happens to me next. Fish and chips, and then hopefully an early night if I'm lucky. And then tomorrow I've got one more gig,

and I'm taking the kids with me. And then I am done, done for Christmas. And obviously with the podcast, it's just on pause. We'll be back in the new year. But I just want to say thank you to everybody who's, all my guests I've had so far this series, to everybody who's listened, thank you so much for coming to find me here. You know how I feel about the podcast. It's my total passion. So thank you so much. And while we've been doing the Christmas tour, I always say on stage, you know, Merry Christmas, have a really good one. Spend it with people you like and be kind to yourself. That's all there is to it. And I do really think that's true. I know Christmas looks like a different thing to lots of different people, but I think if you can just change gear a little bit,

just be a little kinder, just relax a little bit, hunker down, do things you find comforting, familiar, you know, the right people, no stress. That's all the good stuff around Christmas. So have a really lovely one and happy new year. I will see you in January. So yeah, I hope it all goes all right over the next couple of weeks. I've got some more lovely, lovely guests for you coming up. The series is not over.

And if you have been to see me over the last few weeks, thank you so much. It's been really special. And I'll be heading into Europe again as well in March. So lots of lovely things on the horizon too. But mainly, have a really lovely Christmas. Take it nice and easy. And yeah, you will hear from me in the new year. All right. Lots of love. See you soon On each step with Peloton, from their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it.

Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks, and hikes, led by expert instructors on the peloton app call yourself a runner peloton all access membership separate learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running