Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 127: Natalie Cassidy

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Natalie Cassidy is familiar to us all from EastEnders where she's been playing Sonia since the age of 10!When we met she told me about her love of growing up on a TV set, where age meant nothing and her best friend was June Brown, who was 50 years older than her!Natalie is a mum of two daughters, Eliza and Joanie. My heart melted when she described how she and her husband Marc met when Eliza was just three, and he said he'd fallen in love first with Natalie and then when he met Eliza, he fell in love again.Natalie's about to turn 41 this week. She already has one podcast 'Off the Telly' which she co-hosts with actress Joanna Page and she's just launched a solo podcast 'Life With Nat' which immediately went to number one in the podcast charts!We talked about how grateful we are that we didn't have social media as teenagers and we revisited our teen love of culottes! Also I tried to invite myself on her podcast to talk about teenagers and phones. I have no shame!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Morning. It's Sunday. I actually completely forgot that I was supposed to do this

for Richard. I'm running very late. He's away. And yeah, I just feel like I've been a bit chasing my tail this week. I'm speaking to from sunday morning richard asked me to send over my introduction and my outro sorry mickey in a second boo-boo i've got to record this um for the podcast i think he asked me yesterday and i was like sure sure sure incoming and completely forgot uh mickey is playing a game on the PS5. He's only five. It's quite a child-friendly game this time, but I have to say, sometimes standards get a bit woolly. It's quite hard when you've got four big brothers in the house,

or three in the house, as it is now, with a little one, because they kind of get exposed to everything. But right now, it does seem to be a child-friendly game, and I'm sitting here with him. Every once in a while, he'll ask me to help, and I can't help. I'm feeling good. I had a great night last night because I watched Eurovision. That's not the end of it.

That is enough on its own to make me happy. But I watched it with my two eldest boys, so Sonny and Kit got really into it. Now, understandable, but unexpected, because I've been banging on about eurovision all week because i love it and they were both a bit like we're not gonna watch we ended up getting so into it that like kit was voting for countries in a second boo i'll have a go in a minute can you just run and jump run run run try and grab that rope. Oh, yeah, you did it. Level up.

Oh, okay, then you died. Sorry. But you did do it at first. I did it. Anyway, I thought Eurovision had some brilliant moments. Can you just help? Mickey, I'll be two seconds. I'm just finishing what I'm doing.

And then I'm all yours. Just help. Yes. You're respawning. That's good. No, it's not. Why is that not? I have to start all over.

Is that right? Because you didn't that right that was my fault okay i'm just nearly done and then i can help you it's i'm recording something for my podcast do you know what podcast is silence um anyway just like last year my favorite came second last year's Finnish entry cha-cha-cha I loved this year's Croatian entry rindindigidin loved that that was really exciting I also loved a few others I liked Luxembourg I liked Greece I liked Italy I liked I thought Spain was going to do better than that and I do think Oli Alexander did a brilliant job. He was so pumped and he performed really, really well. I could see that glint in his eye of just like really taking the moment. I love that. It was good energy. So well done, Oli. Anyway, what have I got for you this week? Okay. I spoke to Natalie Cassidy this

week. So Natalie Cassidy has got two daughters and she I didn't even realize how long she'd been in EastEnders until I started doing my research before I spoke to her since she was 10 for those of you under a rock EastEnders is a long-running British soap much loved I think most people have got most British people have got their kind of time when they got really into EastEnders for me late 90s early noughties I used to watch the Omnibus on a Sunday catch up on all the goings-on in Albert Square but Sonia the character that Natalie played was there throughout all of it for me because she Natalie joined the cast when she was only 10 crazy times so I would have been like I don't know 15 then and um she has had a couple of breaks

but she's in it now and I just thought wow what a what a thing to join so young and then stay in a soap all that time she's also just launched her own podcast which is doing very well and thoroughly lovely woman she's very funny Instagram. I found her really warm and lovely and we had a good chat and here it is and I'm going to attempt to help Nikki with this game. See you in a minute. I was actually really looking forward to speaking to you just because I realised that, do you know what a parasocial relationship is? Have you heard about that term?

Parasocial as in we know each other really well but have never met? We sort of feel like we know that, like, because I'm so familiar with you, you know, I've seen you for so many years. I feel I was like, oh, yeah, just have a chat with Natalie. That would be really lovely. But it made me feel nice and relaxed. And I thought you must be pretty queen bee of dealing with parasocial relationships because people must just constantly think that they know you super well. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, obviously I've been on the television since I was 10.

So if you like, I've never really known anything different than people just coming up to me and chatting to me like they know me. But I feel the same as you, Sophie. You know, I've watched you on Instagram and I was like, oh, this is exciting. This is so exciting. It's so lovely to come and talk to you. Well, yes. You've been round in that case.

That's what I feel like. I feel like everybody that came over during that time has been over. Yeah. But yeah, you mentioned starting in EastEnders when you were 10. And I just wondered why you were so lazy between the ages of birth and double figures. I know. It was so lazy of me. For goodness sake.

You wasted a decade there, Natalie. I know, pull yourself together. Pull your finger out. I'm 41 soon, 41 in a couple of weeks, and it is weird to think that I've spent a third of my life, you know, in this industry that we're in, this mad place that we seem to subside in. But, you know, I love it.

Yeah, three quarters of your, yeah, 75% of your life. But what an extraordinary thing. And actually, I did Google if you were, like, the longest running actor in a soap. And you probably already know this, but not even in the top 50. There's some people out there that have been doing so like they've been in it for nearly 70 years yeah it was is that kem barlow he's definitely up there i actually think the top one might be someone oh maybe it was kem barlow it was william roach american one yes and there's a couple of american

because this was a global one. Right, okay. And you get some Americans that have really bedded in as well. But also you've had a few people running alongside you in EastEnders that have also put the decades in as well. Yeah, 100%. You must feel like you're part of a club of people who just know it inside out. It's interesting you say that about a club because yeah as the years roll by and people come and they go what have you you're kind of there's

probably myself and Adam with Jack, Peri Fennick yeah there's a few of us that have you know seen it all and been around for a long time and yeah it's a it's a very special place to work it's um it's home really yeah I can imagine and I suppose I mean I wonder how many times in your life you've even said EastEnders it's probably up there it's probably got into get into millions now but I think when a show has been part of your life from when you're young and during all those formative years. Yeah. It must almost feel like it's like a sibling. It must be like a relative almost. Oh, it is, you know, and I drive to work and I go in the gate. You know, people think, obviously, the general public think about

just the people that they see on the television, but for me it's the costume, the make-up, the props boys, the security guards, you know, I've grown up with all these people there yeah you know I see them more than I see a lot of my own family members so you can't yes of course you know being fond of it and and loving it it's great I feel very grateful but also you know I've put the time in as well Sophie it's all very well you know what lucky I always say you're lucky and fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. But then you have to put the hard work in, be nice and, you know, have a talent to remain in what we do.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's definitely comes down to that because otherwise, you know, people. there's so many points in a career where actually you know the this if if you remain in the heady swirl of like the big push the big success the bit where there's the focus you can get away with being like a bit of an arse basically yeah yeah but once that once that momentum settles I remember when I started out and I'd meet um singers and artists and sometimes it'd be someone very established and I think oh I don't really like them that much I don't think and and I'd meet um singers and artists and sometimes it'd be someone very established and I'd think oh I don't really like them that much I don't think and then I'd meet them and they'd always be really nice because basically if someone's been doing what they do for a really long time the chances are they're actually pretty nice to be around yeah yeah you're so so right so

right and I'd sometimes find that a bit annoying because I'd be like no I don't want now I have to like that person because I've met them and they're that person but look at you I mean look at your resurgence this year it's been amazing hasn't it with your yeah bonkers and it's amazing again I've been watching you with you know you're in America and you're on the Jimmy Fallon show and it just must be amazing I was just going oh my god so surreal so good well it's like when we were emailing and you said oh my teenage daughter's It just must be amazing. I was just going, oh, my God. So surreal. So good. Well, it's like when we were emailing and you said, oh, my teenage daughter's going to be excited. I'm like, that is definitely a new thing.

They are all obsessed with you. Isn't it amazing? This time last year, she'd have been like, who the hell's that? I know, but brilliant. Enjoy it. It's amazing. I know this too will pass, but I am quite, it has been quite fun. You know, it's like, I feel like, you know, most people have got quite a short attention span,

sort of a short memory, I should say, for what you get up to. And I think that there's, you have to sort of appreciate things when they're in the middle of it, because actually everything, everything goes back to normal eventually. You have like a little wave and then it kind of settles back down again. So, yeah, I'm finding it quite amusing really because I feel like teenagers being at all interested is a very temporary thing no listen I agree with you you know EastEnders is something that is a constant in my life but that is something I don't even think about anymore I'm grateful for it but I just go to work and I do my job and I you know that's that but then starting podcasting is completely new for me and as you say I do people say oh you're

number one in the chart this week and it just I laugh it makes me really I get a bit nervous because I don't believe I'm sort of like oh okay that's not gonna last so it doesn't matter you know it's brilliant and I'm really grateful, but this too shall pass, shall so right. So what made you start a podcast, Natalie? How are you finding being part of the podcast world? Well, I've only been in it for less than a week, Sophie. How's the seven days gone?

I don't know. No, I've been doing a really nice TV review podcast with Joanna Page called Off the Telly. That's for BBC Sounds. And that's where we review telly and what have you. But the one that's come out this week, if you like, is My Baby. I've been thinking about it probably for about two and a half years. But it's just been timing and getting things in place

and getting it right because I wanted it to be yeah I wanted it to be about the general public really and I wanted to be able to talk to them and I needed the time to do that because it's quite time consuming because I've got to be on whatsapp with that you know I am actually replying and responding to people and finding people that I want to talk to so I'm sort of doing all the research for it myself and stuff as well I mean it is exhausting and I'm now thinking how am I going to do my two podcasts my job and bring up the two children as you say in the title of this there's a lot of plate spinning going on there is but I think that I

what I found with um and I'm sure it sounds like it's already that for you the podcast is becomes like a passion project but also also, as time goes on, you might find that there's things you're getting out of it that you didn't know that's what you were looking for. And I think conversation and community is such a gorgeous glue. And it just makes everything kind of... I think the older I get, the more I enjoy trying to learn about all the different ways people can live their life and what goes on with them. And everybody's got a story.

You know, there's a story behind everything. You're right. Except you're really probably looking at stories which are really meaningful. And I'm talking about losing socks in the washing machine. This is what happens though no no I totally totally identify with that and I think isn't life like that it's a mixture of you know the sort of philosophical and then mundane and that is like there we are there's room for all of it you're quite right there's certainly room absolutely you know and

on that note when I knew I was going to talk to you i just thought part of me thought we could just sit and just literally natter about anything and it was going to give me what i needed for the day um and that's clearly something i associate with you and i've already you know follow you and you're such a natural with talking to people about whatever's on your mind and balancing you know things that are strike you as amusing people you know like where it's wherever it leads you and it's I think it's just only gonna well it obviously already completely plays to all your strengths so I think your the headspace will grow for your podcast you won't you'll want to be you'll get like all that hungry for it well that's very kind of you it's lovely to get advice off of people that have been doing it for a long time it really is no honestly it really is but no it's funny because um oh go on oh sorry no i was gonna

say i had my mum over the other day oh yeah and she was joking that um everybody pretty much you're never very further than six foot away from someone with a podcast and my mum has a podcast as well and she's like oh you've got podcasters in mate you've got podcasters in you can't get they say that about rats don't they as well in London I'm not sure about that analogy they say you're never six foot away from rats I don't know if I want to be a rat I don't know has the rat got a podcast maybe that's got a story I would imagine I'll tell you what down those drains there's probably a whole network of rats podcasting away absolutely yeah beaming it out there can we go back in time luckily to what

was happening when you had your first baby because i've thought a lot how does it work if you're in a long-term acting role yeah and then and then you're thinking about motherhood how does what's the sort of how did it work for you uh for me i just you know fell pregnant and then you just you know go into work and say this is happening and they have to write you out and give you a break you know my first my first girl Eliza I wasn't at East Enders at the time so that was different but Joanie now yeah when I had Joanie I was at work and you know you just have your your time off and you're written out you know it can be hard because I think sometimes you think well actually I'd love to have two time off and you're written out. You know, it can be hard because I think sometimes you think,

well, actually, I'd love to have two years off, but financially that isn't possible, you know, as a self-employed person. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe it would have been lovely to have had a little bit more time at home maybe with Joni and not gone back, but you kind of feel not pressured into going back at all you know but for you you think oh what's happening with the storylines and I don't want to be forgotten about

and that sort of thing um but I did back but I'm very fortunate because it's not a nine when I look at people you know I've got mates as I'm sure you have and they go to work from Monday to Friday they leave the house at 6 30 a.m they get in at 8 p.m and that is every week until they have a holiday week and I genuinely just cannot I hold my hands up and I just think I don't know how you do it because my week is much more sporadic as I'm sure yours is but you know I could have a Monday afternoon off. I might have Wednesday off one week. So I like the fact that mine changes all the time. I'm not sure if I could have ever been someone

to have been in that very set timeframe where I know that I'm not seeing my children for the week. And I know that's the norm. That's what most people do. Yep, that's very true and I think sometimes because our working week is every week is a slightly different shape yeah um and because like you said you you thought I want to get back to work I want to you know get back into the role and I have to work but I think sometimes when you do something that's self-motivated in that way like no one's coming knocking at our door saying get back out there or you're not you know so sometimes that leads you to feel

for me it's it took me a while to kind of get used to the guilt of like the fact that I'd made a conscious decision about the shape of how my day was going to go which I was sort of almost giving that message to the kids. Like, oh, I've said yes to this and I've said yes to that. So they'd be like, well, why didn't you just say no? Yeah. And sometimes it almost wasn't really giving me the ability to sort of give,

to actually acknowledge what it was giving me as a person in a sort of more holistic sense, I think. I think you're absolutely right. There's some, sometimes I look at jobs you know something will come in it's a comedy quiz or something something that I know that I enjoy I'll go and do that and it's one of my favorite things to do be on a panel show for instance so if that comes in and it's a Saturday it's all day long on a Saturday or a Sunday it doesn't take me long before I say yes, without thinking of the children. And I'm very happy to say that because I think, no, that's something I want to do and that makes me happy. In turn, when I get home, I'll be happier from doing it. And I think it's

brilliant for our children to see us working hard. You know, I've got two daughters and I think, us working hard you know I've got two daughters and I think I always say it you know Eliza is now 13 she'll be 14 in September so we can have quite adult conversation but she's brilliant she's I'm the one going I'm really sorry I'm so busy I'm you know I have to go up there I've got to do this and I'm so sorry but you know we need to get some time together and she'll say mum you're doing really well at the moment don't be sorry don't feel you know it's really good just go and do your work I'm fine probably because she wants to sit on her phone and talk to her friends but you know she's really she's really quite good and I think it's a it's good for them to see us going out to work and doing what we want to do it's you know that will feed into them and when when they get older, they will want to go to work

and do something that they enjoy. They'll remember us working hard and giving them a very, very privileged life, quite frankly. Yes, I think that's very true about them, you modelling, working and engaging. But while you're saying that, I'm thinking, if you start what you're doing at 10 how how has how have you managed to sort of establish a work ethic when you were also started as a child because obviously it

sounds like you've had to shift your relationship with what you were doing as you get older so when you're little your parents or your chaperone or the people on set are presumably trying to keep it in a space that is not making you feel like you're you know there's too much pressure on you as the years go by you've got to then shift that relationship to be in step with where you're really at and what and the responsibilities you can take on so how do you help your how are you how do you help your... How are you sort of growing up within that, I suppose? Yeah, it's a really good question.

It just happened for me, genuinely. I got to 16, so you could only do a certain amount of hours and days up until the age of 16. Got to 16 and it was work full-time, continue to work full-time and, you know, proper money, full time. Would you like to do this? Or you don't need to do that and you can go back to education.

I was really happy. I loved what I did. And that's how I, you know, I just carried on. And I think in terms of work ethic and looking to the future, becoming, you know, being in your 20s and then family life and all of that because of growing up on a set on telly from 10 I was surrounded by women who had had family that had been younger that were older that had had different experiences. And on a set, you're with... Age doesn't matter. So there are no barriers for friendship. One of my best friends was June Brown, who played Doc Cotton. And when I was 20, June would have been mid-70s.

And she would come and stay at my house, we would learn our lines we'd drink red wine we'd go on holiday and you know there was a 50 50 plus year age gap but I had someone like that who'd had a full career bringing up five children and you know I had all of these people with a lot of wisdom I suppose and I just it's always been very normal to me to just follow in these ladies footsteps to have a career and to you can you can do it all it's always been very normal to me to just follow in these ladies footsteps to have a career and to you can you can do it all it's difficult but you can do it all well firstly I think that's so beautiful I love the idea of the generational walls just being broken down and having friendships

from all across like what what a privilege that is. I think that's so wonderful. And actually, I haven't got quite as dramatic a parallel, but I definitely met women when I was my late teens, early twenties, who became my rocks that I clung to because they had the wisdom, they were grounded, they had a life outside of work. So I think that's so precious. And I think there's obviously you know if you've got that instinct in you to sort of find your family or your people wherever you are whatever environment you're in it does so much for your head in terms of just giving you what you need to also I think as you say with age people's wisdom and the life they've lived, again, it bamboozles me to think that I could be working in an office

with an age range of, I don't know, 20 to 60, I suppose. I don't know how I cope with that. I've got friends who are 16, 17. I sit and have lunch with them. We have a chat. I find out what they're up to. I get their perspective. I suppose they're mates with me and they say I've got this old friend is probably what they say now which is a bit a bit shocking to think of but yeah you know I yeah

I think the the mixing of people no matter where you're from who you are what age you are for me that's very important and again that is why genuinely not selling i'm not sitting here plugging anything that's why i wanted to do the podcast because i'm so interested in people it doesn't matter who they are and how old they are where they come from i want to talk to people i totally get that and i i you when you were talking it reminded me of something i i heard you say once which is that when you were little and you'd go on sleepovers at your friend's house you'd often sit up chatting to the mum always always it's such a lovely little image if you sat at the table always cup of tea like I was 11 or 12 11 or 12 they'd they'd go to bed and I would be sat up for hours talking to the mums because they

were my friends that was the age my friends were at work. So I had no... You'd go for a sleepover to see the mums. Can your mum ask me for another sleepover, please? I want to check in how that interview went at work. Is it she meet her deadlines? Absolutely, yeah. How's the love life? How's the boyfriend?

Exactly. How's the dating going? So sweet. Own each step with Peloton. That's so sweet. has workouts you can work in or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs walks and hikes led by expert instructors on the peloton app call yourself a runner peloton all access membership separate learn more at onepeloton.ca running i don't know how you find it with your children are they having lots of sleepovers now and stuff i don't know how old they are oh yes children. Are they having lots of sleepovers now and stuff? I don't know how old they are, I'm sorry. Oh, yes.

Yeah, so basically my, well, my children are aged between 5 and 20. 5 and 20, right. Yes, my first born was 20 last week. Wow. How's that feel? It's quite a big... Well, firstly, I get very excited about him getting older because I'm kind of wowed that I have an actual adult person. Yeah. Like, I get very excited about him getting older because I get I'm kind of wowed that I have

an actual adult person yeah like I get excited but that being said when he was suddenly 20 and not a teenager I was a bit like oh that's actually quite serious and then you know getting used to the fact that if I say to someone my kid turned 20 and they don't say how have you got a 20 year old they just kind of go oh okay like no no no you've missed a bit you're supposed to say how's that happening um but uh yeah we've got sleepovers all the time I had an extra eight children in the house on the Saturday just gone yes for a birthday I've got another one coming over on Friday it's a bustling busy house um I'm sure June Brown would have completely you know come from a set if she's raising five when she's raising five you just there's constantly people in and out it's

a very busy home i like that though it's lovely so do i and i'm always asking the kids that come over lots of questions and it's interesting because some kids are quite used to talking to the parents as a person and other ones it's like do not engage it's like because some kids are quite used to talking to the parents as a person. And other ones, it's like, do not engage. It's like you're in a different camp. Like, oh, no, that's a parent person and I don't speak to them. But I encourage my kids to chat to everybody that comes over, regardless of their age, because I think I was raised like that. I'm exactly the same with my kids. It's number one for me, the social element.

I'm exactly the same with my kids. It's number one for me, the social element. And I always say it doesn't, educationally, whatever you do, whatever you enjoy, you know, you can do that. But in terms of talking to people, looking them in the eye and having an interest in someone, you can't learn that. You can't learn it. And if you're in an interview, you could be super, super clever and got all your exams.

But if you can't make eye contact with somebody and have a conversation, forget about it. So I think the social element is very, very important. Well, also, I suppose you've seen in your work that those relationships, that's what it's actually kind of like. That's the nuts and bolts, isn't it? of like getting in each day knowing the community you you're you're pulling your weight yeah you're like okay I'm learning my lines I'm getting my marks I'm gonna do what I do but the you know seeing everybody all the individuals that pull together yeah and all the ranges of experience and there's someone who's worked there for 40 years and someone who's just in their second week and, you know, you're just sort of all, like, pulling together all the time.

Yeah, so, so right. It really is teamwork. It's a massive team and it's quite magical to see it all come together every day. I don't know how we get it all done, but we do. We manage. I know. What a phenomenal thing.

What a phenomenal thing. And so when you had your... Did you always want to be a mum? Was that always something you wanted to do? Yes, I think so. But my mum passed away when I was 19. So I lost my mum at 19. And then, yes, I worked and, you know,

I didn't grieve properly, I don't think, really. And got on with life and life was good and what have you. And I think I became quite a lonely person in my sort of, sort of the end of my 20s, if you like. And that's when I sort of wanted to start settling down and, you know, finding somebody. But, yeah, I mean, I did did find someone but it wasn't the right person but out of that came my beautiful Eliza so you know you can't ask better than that you know life

throws you things and you wonder why things have happened and I certainly know why that relationship happened and that was because I'm bringing up this wonderful 13 year old now so I'm very lucky yeah and then I'm sorry you lost your mum so young though that's very young 19 to lose your mum it was young and it was a shock you know it wasn't something that we knew she had an aneurysm so it was sort of there on the Sunday see you later mum she was gone on the Monday and then I lost my dad three years ago and my dad was my life he he lived with me he was my best friend since mum died. You know, we were together, if you like, like a pair. So when he died, that was really difficult.

Much more difficult, if you like, because I'd had so much more time with him and we were so much closer. At 19, you don't really... 19, you're out and about. You don't really want to be with your parents. So I've always had that guilt for not being around for my mum. You no but that's so normal yeah of course of course it is and you know I'm very aware that that's all normal and you know I've dealt with all of that and you know I just miss them both dearly now and just look back on lovely memories and know that they'd be

really proud of everything that I'm doing so it's good it is good and I suppose now that you're when you're raising your daughters and you want them to you want them to carry a bit of your mum and dad too so you it's it's funny isn't it because grief I don't think it's chronological at all. So there were probably moments where you missed your mum really intensely, maybe even like, you know, a decade more after she wasn't there. It's different situations that are triggering, I think, to grief. I.e. having a child. You say, I wish my mum was here to be with me and you can ask her things or just go for that coffee to pick up the cot and get advice off of her.

It's those things you miss, I think. Or picking up the phone. It's like having this week of success in something that I've never done before, not being able to see my dad for a cup of tea and walk in the house and say, Dad, you won't believe this, and talk to him about that. So it's those moments, I think, you miss. You just miss that, the parent, the parent that unconditionally loves you, and you can do no wrong, right?

So that's gone. Once you're orphaned, that's it. You're out on your own, really. It doesn't matter how old you are. I think you feel that. You're out on your own now. You've got to make a go of it. But I do think that is why I've changed and evolved

and wanted to do more projects and kind of step out of my comfort zone because I feel like a grown-up. That's interesting. Like that's sort of like something you're quite conscious of in the last couple of years, I suppose. Yeah, definitely. And your daughters would have known your dad.

Oh, yeah. But what elements of your mum have you sort of consciously or unconsciously, I suppose, do you feel you're mimicking? I think I just, I think, you know, I'll say Nanny Ev, my mum was Evelyn, but I say Nanny Ev would have done this and oh, Nanny Ev liked those sweets or, you know, Nanny loved cooking this and, or if, you know, if a Carpenter song comes on, I say, that was Nanny's favourite music.

And I think that's how you keep them alive, just by talking about their loves and their habits or funny things they used to say. So they get a picture of them. They get a little picture in their head. And it probably isn't much different to my picture because I've not seen her for 22 years. So, you know, things fade and you remember certain pockets of joy

and that's what I'm trying to give to them, really, the little pockets of joy that I remember. Oh, that's lovely. And I have to say, I totally echo in her love of the Carpenters. Yes, mine too. What a voice. Her and Carpenters' voice. Yeah, absolutely.

One of the best. Probably my favourite female vocalist, actually. Yeah, amazing. So I'm thinking about when you came to have your second baby and you're in you're in the show. Yeah. Were you more trepidatious about how it would affect work or was that ever a question or did you just kind of let it no not really I met Mark 10 years ago um and we were together for a year and a year and a half I think it was about a year and a half yeah she'll be eight in August so yeah roughly doing the maths um yeah and fell pregnant and I'm just so, really felt that I'd met my person. So that really took a, that became a priority then. You know, I'd met my person and that was really, I felt safe and comfort.

And I knew that I wanted to create this family unit, really, that I'd never had before. And Mark was amazing as well with Eliza. So amazing. You know, Eliza was three at the time. But he, you know, I said three at the time but he you know I said after my after our first date I said well you've got to meet my daughter because she's three and I don't leave her on her own you know she's with me wherever I go so you know we started to date and she'd be around and you know he said very early on you

know I met you fell in love with you and then I met Eliza and I fell in love again oh that's amazing you know he's always been her dad really from from very very young so yeah very very lucky I love hearing that it's just so gorgeous when people because I think a lot of step parenting doesn't really come with much of a map and actually it comes down to what works for those two people but it has to be done kind of like on their own terms. Absolutely. It's between them. Absolutely.

Obviously you're there but really it's between them. So him just discovering unconditional love like that is incredible. He's an annoying dad. He's an annoying dad. He's an annoying daddy. Yeah, he's always been daddy, really, since a very young age. So, yeah, they get on like a house on fire. Obviously, the teenage years are going well. We all fight like cat and dog now, bloody hormones.

Oh, yes. I feel sorry for them. So do you. I do feel sorry. You know, you can just see their head. You remember that age and the beds are made and this sort of chaos in the room. And she's running up the stairs because she's forgotten a school book. And I think, oh, that's your brain.

You know, all of that stuff's happening now. And it's a horrible time. I know, all the rewiring, all the stuff that goes on, all the questioning. Figuring out what you look like. Figuring out, you know, that you want to look like somebody else trying to get into the right school group and what you know what friends you're fitting with as well as working which is the last thing on their minds working yeah yeah yeah you know i know i know it is actually and also i feel like my teenager i've only got one at the moment, my 15-year-old.

Yeah. And he still looks so little. For me, he looks a little bit like a big dog who thinks he's a small dog. Like he's like a puppy, you know, like sort of like chundling along. And he just happens to be six foot now. And, you know, his voice is all like that. But sometimes you get this glimpse across his face where it's like, oh, it's you at like six again,

you know, like little version of him. But he's a lot, I feel like teenagers are a lot more vulnerable looking than I felt on the inside when I was, I didn't feel vulnerable at all when I was a teenager. I thought I was about to get the keys to the kingdom. I thought I was indestructible. I was in Sugar Hut dancing to your song at 15.

I was actually quite wild. I was quite a wild teenager. Yeah. Which is really annoying because I'm the eldest in my family and I thought the others would follow and then they didn't. So it turns out I just... You're the bad one. Yeah, so annoying. It's not a bad thing you're fine you've turned out fine it's all good it's all good so where was your like teenage rebellion or in a month you know

I wouldn't say rebellion at all I just I went to work I was working you know I was never late for work I think I was late once late once in my late teens because Mark my other half is a cameraman so he actually remembers I think he was in on this day for work experience now I don't remember seeing Mark but he really loves to tell me the story which is so embarrassing I'm like please could you shut up but he tells this story of him being you know popping into eastenders uh for work experience and this actress not turning up and then me turning up and apologizing to everyone and being an hour late and i said why was that the day you came in i hate lateness i'm never ever late for anything yeah but you won't let me forget it so, in terms of unprofessionalism or going off the rails, that never, ever happened for me.

Never happened. Never, ever. Because I think, again, you see the people around you and you have to be professional. And you really only have to be on time, be kind and know your lines. There's not a lot to do. So I think if you can't do those three things, then that's a bit of a shame, really.

Well, also, I guess you're given responsibility. And what teenagers are often looking for is to be seen on their own two feet as a person in their own right making decisions. So maybe the fact you had this purpose and an expectation that was given to absolutely everybody all the same, it wasn't different for you it was like no you're part of this as well maybe that kind of yeah maybe it becomes like i don't know like the equivalent of some kids getting really into i don't know

sport or something maybe yeah yeah discipline of it following the passion i mean the other side of the coin is people say you know you were very very very famous at 15. I mean, it's not like now. People, there were 25 million people watching EastEnders. It was bonkers. Yeah. You know, you just don't get that anymore. That's not the way of the world, is it? The world's changed. But nothing ever fazed me.

It's never fazed me at all. You know. And what about the fact that, because we've spoken about your daughter and how she's thinking about fitting into tribes and how she looks on things. And obviously we talk a lot now about generations, our kids growing up with, you know,

knowing what they look like all the time. But most people our age wouldn't actually have had any experience with that. But you do. Well, I did. I did. So how does it affect you, knowing what you look like all the time as a teenager? I didn't care a less I didn't care

I really didn't it didn't enter my head I mean if you it's funny it's so cool if you go online because we're going to do a funny thing soon

on the pod but we're going to do this fashion faux pas where we look at all my terrible outfits through the 2000s I'm going to do it with my nieces

because they'll just rip me apart but if you look at some of the things I went out in genuinely, you think, for fuck's sake, did you not have any self-awareness? It is ridiculous what I look like, but I never ever,

I don't even remember looking in a mirror when I got ready. I just, I thought... It was the 90s. It was the 90s. It was the 90s. You know. I mean... It didn't matter, did it?

An early noughties for you, I guess. Early noughties. No. Early noughties. Yeah. But there is so much pressure. Yeah, because you're four years younger than me. There's a lot of pressure with the kids now.

You know, we talk about it all the time and I just would love them to... Yeah, I say to Eliza, you're absolutely beautiful. You've got to just wear what you want to wear and do what you want to do. But now I do feel they follow these little tribes of friends. You know, they all want to wear exactly the same. Yes.

I remember wanting clogs, for instance. Oh, yeah. Clogs, yeah, I had clogs. Or, I don't't know clots or you know i remember so great yeah let's bring them back for the summer i'm all for that i like a lot i still like a lot of a lot yeah but you know i remember certain elements that you'd say oh everybody's got clogs can i I have clocks but I don't remember ever looking you know exactly the same same pair of leggings same pair of trainers same top same and it seems really weird to me I think that has always been I do remember that because I

make me feel better yeah because in my school it was um it was tanning you had you everybody wanted to tan yeah so I had girls in my class that was um it was tanning you had you everybody wanted to tan yeah so i had girls in my class that would literally put on olive oil onto their skin and lie in the sun yeah like trying to like remember themselves yeah and then sun in was the um hair spray so like you're getting that lovely kind of like or lemon juice orange yes that too yeah spraying the sun in and um i think my thing was i i that wouldn't have worked for me i was always very pale and i couldn't do the that blonde hair so i kind of went the other way and would dye my hair black but i did recently read a book um about adolescence and about how

it's this time where your your brain splits into wanting to conform and wanting to rebel so you want to conform with your friends be part of the pack yeah not stick out you know same school bag same you know things you're into everything try and keep with them but rebel against um home and i think it's what's different or i guess what you've grown up with and the thing that's tricky for our teens is i think because the generation gaps are now quite small so probably like what you and i are into is not like wildly dissimilar to someone in their late teens early 20s i tell you what not the bloody music taste she's she's got oh i swear to god i got in the car the other day i promise you she played

mud on the dance floor no scrubs thank you very much no scrubs it's getting hot in here by nelly i said hang on a minute am i in a club in leicester square mine cafe de paris in 2001 i said well get your own music it's all come back i can't believe I genuinely I can't believe it that's so true well I think because of how music is listened to now it's like the record shop is open 24 7 and everything is in stock so music is just like like because if you're releasing new music now you're basically putting a song out in amongst every song that's ever been released it's like every every song is released at once yeah which is pretty crazy but also quite exciting and i like hearing my kids listen to something i'm like oh the clash you know like they do listen to stuff from all different they

she's quite consistent with us quite uh that was all coming from the same place i know my seven year old said the other day could you please put um billy could you put billy joel on scenes from an italian restaurant i said that's a brilliant song brilliant song you know it's just brilliant that's very cool it's so cool and i'll get them into i put i try and put the smiths on i try and put the cure on they're not quite there yet they're like mommy i don't like this but i'll get them there. Yes. Yeah, I think there's definitely room for growth there. And what's your, I mean, it's such an obvious thing to ask,

but what is your daughter's relationship like with your work? Because it's such an institution, and I guess when they were little, you'd just go off and do what you do and come back. Yeah. But as they get older they're probably more curious and also want to learn about, you know, how it's been in your life. Yeah, go on then. So she loves EastEnders. She loves it.

She watches it. Avid fan. She will watch it getting ready for school in the morning if it drops an iPlayer or she will watch it in the evening with me. And she says, Mummy, Sonia's so boring i said that's really nice she said no i just don't like watching you on here she said honestly i just don't like it and i said well that's not actually

i've been there a long time darling there's a lot of people that do like me and she said well i'm not one of them so she actually fast forwards my she fast forwards my bits but i don't know if that's because it's her mum or whether that's just her take on on sonia but it's fine probably because you're her mum yeah i would say possibly but i do wonder what it's like for you to have because it's one thing to act from a young age you know there's so many examples of that but playing the same character is unusual isn't it yes so what what does your relationship become like with with the character itself that you've sort of been walking along inside but they're not you know they've sort of been there throughout everything yeah it's interesting obviously i there's there's lots of elements of nat in sonia because it would be impossible not to have that um but they are very different

i think the biggest thing as you grow with a character and you've been a character for 30 years is knowing how... I get a script and I just know how she would stand. I don't have to work too hard on how an argument's going to flow or where she would shout or where... Because I am her. So for me, that comes quite easily.

The line learning doesn't come easy. I will never, ever be good at learning lines. It takes me a very, very long time. But in terms of... Just reading again and again and again and again. Exactly. Cover, look, cover, write, check, look, cover, write, check. But if I have a story and I look at it and I see the scenes,

I kind of know where know when I want to cry or when she wants to cry, sorry, or when I think she'll be quieter or, you know, tonally I kind of get her and I know what her day would be. And I don't really, that comes quite naturally. I write it all down, but I don't think, it's not forced in any way. And that's quite quite lovely yeah and I guess I was thinking that your confidence as an actor and your experience and all the layers of that I mean maybe that's when you if you were to look back at something

from I don't know when you're in your 20s yeah do you feel like oh I can see now that I would have approached things differently can you see it like a yeah very much so yeah there's certain scenes that I watch and it's just where you're young and you're doing it a certain way but I think with with age and practice you kind of can calm down a bit you don't need to shout all the time and you know you can be a bit stiller or a bit slower and also take your time a bit more I've always found that I've always found acting I've always found it really hard if I've got quite a lot to do in a scene so not rush through it and I remember watching Michael French

who played David Wicks actually and I remember him saying don't what you're rushing for would you do that in real life you wouldn't rush through it and that's always kind of resonated and stuck in my head that you should be confident enough to kind of own it and take your time and have the beats and have the pauses you know I imagine that as you say it's one of the biggest things because my instinct if I'm nervous about something is to rush as well so being able to just bed in and let it breathe and let the punctuation of the silences do their thing as well as sometimes those are more powerful right than the words yeah the silences and it the other thing to the layer on top of what we're talking about is when you're half an hour behind and everyone

around that set is panicking that we're not going to fit it in or you know there's a huge panic on to get stuff done and it's hard to not pick up on that sometimes you know and yeah you want to take your time but actually there is a huge rush so yeah no it's very interesting to think about yeah well I was thinking as well that when because with I with making disco music yeah some musicians think of disco as something that they don't understand the complexity of what the musicianship is until they actually step into it yeah like basically if you're not if you're like not a brilliant musician you're going to really struggle with disco because it's so like about skill and groove and all locking together and I'm thinking as I'm

hearing you talk about there must be a lot of actors out there that would really struggle to be able to cope with the nature of how your work runs I think you're right I really do maybe it's one of those things like okay have a go at doing my thing for like a month and see how you find it I really agree with you actually because the pace in which we work the amount of scripts we have the amount of lines we learn and then our schedule and in in terms of not knowing what you're you know you find out what you're doing, say, the end of the week for the next week. So you can never plan anything, really. And, yeah, there are a hell of a lot of lines to learn. And you've got your scripts maybe for two weeks before you film.

But obviously you're constantly filming stuff while those are coming through. So it's never-ending, really. When you're really busy, when you're in the thick of it it's a hard gig but it's very, the thing whenever it's hard and you're tired and you're there all the time, that's when you're doing your best work because you're in the middle of it all and you're the A story

and you're doing your best work so yeah you know when you have your down time that's lovely but when you're really busy and tired you have to remember that's because it's my time to shine in the show so that's lovely. But when you're really busy and tired, you have to remember, that's because it's my time to shine in the show. So that's really good as well. Extraordinary.

And it's so different to any other acting commitment, which might have a sort of rehearsal period, opening, few weeks, chunk of work. You have a beginning and end. When I've done plays before, what have you, you meet the team of people, don't you, in your little community, and you think, well, I start this job on May the 5th and it's going to end on September the 1st.

And this hasn't, you know, it will have an end. One day, you know, I'm sure Sonia will end. I don't know when. Hopefully she can potter about being a nurse for a bit longer. I don't want her to die a terrible death. I don't want her to die a terrible death. Don't want her to get run over or pushed in Walford Tube Station. What's it like for actors when they do get their script and they see that, oh, I've got two more weeks?

It must be quite a... I think, to be honest with you, look, it's got to evolve and characters have to come and go because otherwise it would be a very boring place. So, you evolve and characters have to come and go because otherwise it'll be a very boring place so you know you have different people come in with different ideas and yeah of course you're upset always if you lose a friend from somewhere but it's the same as any job right moving on yeah um but i do think you i mean genuinely it's not a joke every contract that comes around for me i in my head

think right well i'm going then i have to think when i'm going to be leaving them because i could be gone definitely gone people say well you're never going to go i said well i never say never to anything there's loads of people in soap that have been shock exits or where they want to do a big story with someone that people care about or whatever. So, you know, I'm always prepared for that. And that's fine. You know, you've just got to enjoy it while it lasts. Yeah, it's always evolving.

I mean, I would agree that I can't see that happening, but I guess there's things that develop all the time. Just completely different subject change. Yeah. Out of doing, you and I both share we've done Strictly. Yes. We've also done Big Brother. Yes.

Which one was more fun? For me? Yeah. You can tell me. For me, it was Strictly. I loved Strictly so much. Yeah, it's extraordinary, isn't it? What a world, isn't it?

You just get obsessed, don't you, with it all. Who was your dance partner? I can't remember. I was with Brendan Cole. Oh, you were with Brendan. Lovely Brendan. I was with Vincenzo. Yeah, I remember.

What a funny thing. I mean, for you, that must be like, oh, learning a dance a week. Yep, that's standard pace for me. I'm always having to learn things very fast. Not on my feet, Sophie, no. Thank you. Words coming out of my mouth and a bit of emotion, maybe, but certainly not the dancing element.

But I enjoyed every minute of it. I loved the sparkle. I loved the team of people. They were long old days though weren't they long old Saturdays definitely yeah really long and I found just like I'm sort of running on adrenaline I think for like months on end just like sustained by this sort of fizzy twinkly nervous energy when you used to that time did you used to I used to i used to hear the drums and you know you could hear yeah strictly i'm dancing we're going live and i used to look at vincenza and say i've forgotten

everything it would be first out and i say you're just gonna have to drag me around i've forgotten everything that's yeah that's nerves for you nothing's quite like that one of the most nerve wracking things i think i've done that life me too I'm not very good with life though I'm not very good with life and you must be so fine with live stuff I think it's a confidence trick though I think uh if you really stop to think about it firstly a bit like when you were saying about EastEnders having 25 million viewers when things get so big like that, your brain almost can't compute it anyway. So it might as well be two people in a way. So I think when I've got something really pressurized, and I suppose the most recent thing was I performed at the BAFTAs, which for me was really extraordinary because it was all...

Absolutely. As a singer, I don't normally get to like even see, you know, Hollywood stars. So I was very aware, like, I've been allowed in this one time and I probably will never be invited back. But just before I sang, I was like, I feel sick. Really? A wave of nausea from my toes all the way up my body. And you do have that little fleeting moment of like

is this the bit where I do something where it all goes wrong do I just pass out what actually happens here but then something kicks in doesn't it and you just think no I'm just going to shut up that bit of my brain

and just bloody it's three minutes just do it three minutes how brilliant to have all those movie stars watching it's brilliant. In the room.

I told myself it was a lookalike convention. Madame Tussauds convention. Exactly. Because I was like, it was too absurd. Yeah, definitely a very intimidating experience. But what a lovely thing to tick off your list. So you've done. Exactly.

It's great. Exactly. And then like, you know, anything you do that challenges you you take that something from it and you're like well i've done that and that was all right so the next thing you're like onwards isn't it always onwards um so before i let you go um i'm congratulations with your podcast thank you what are you so who are you excited about speaking to what's the sort of you said you've been nurturing this for two years what's the big it's again it's it's the at the moment i just want it to be the normal and the mundane

so you know i'm doing an episode about the weather when the sun comes out why everybody you know it's still 12 degrees but we have a peak of sun in this country and everyone's in vest tops and flip-flops and it's still freezing you know and then i've this lovely couple mike and alex from wales they got in contact on a voice note and it was just the funniest voice note so then i messaged them and it turns out next week that i've just got them on the zoom and i'm just chatting away and they're chipping in, you know. It's just, yeah, I just want it to be, like you said, I want to build a community of people who feel like they're my mate and that we can have a good old chat about whatever we want

with no airs or graces and it's just real normal shit, the shit of life. The stuff that everybody does. Just the stuff that everybody does, the loading of life uh i think that everybody just the stuff that everybody does the loading of the dishwasher they're not getting the washing done forgetting that it's inset day and taking your kids to school in their uniform all of those things you know always being you know late for stuff people well people are i'm not late i'm not a late person i'm the same as you i hate being i really don't like being late i get very uptight if I'm late yes really don't like it yeah but all those things you know I'm talking about weight and food and

but I'm not an expert in any of it so I'm hoping to you know people for instance yesterday that here's an example for you yesterday I had an episode we talked about mobile phones I heard a stat in the car that 25% of five to seven year olds not only own a smartphone, but they're on social media. They're on TikTok. So that just grabbed my attention. How many percent? 25. 25%? Five to seven year olds. Exactly what I did in the car. So I just sat there and thought, oh, wow. So I started talking about that, opened the conversation. And then Mark actually sent me

someone's Instagram her name was Daisy and they've started a movement and it's a smart free smartphone free schools you know smartphone free kids and I just yeah I had a zoom with her and chatted about it's just about giving um parents support when you feel like you're the only one saying no to your kid over a phone yeah because i had that no you know with eliza i i held off until she was 12 and that was a struggle that's impressive i know that's quite hard isn't it it's hard isn't it so yeah it's all those things all those things that we go through and um i think there's loads i've got a heap of stuff on that. I bet you have.

I can relate. Yeah, I just like to relate to everything. That's another episode. But yeah, again, it's relatable. I bet you've got notes in your phone and it'll be like weather, like you've just got all these like little topics. All my little notes.

And you just put them on your phone, on your like notes, like come on. Loads of notes, loads of notepads, loads of, you know, bits. And I just scribble down ideas and then I'm just going to see what happens and let it evolve. I'm sure that, you know, in a year's time I might say, well, this is the format now because people like this bit and this bit. And, you know, I can make it into. But, yeah, it's not a polished thing at the moment.

I'm just playing with it. Well, same here. But that's the beauty of this right we can do what we want you can do what you want every week yeah it feels so freeing to not have to ask someone can i do this or would it be okay to do you know it's just our bait we can do what we want it's great also it's so comforting talking to people about all the same stuff that you think about i thought i really like that i mean i'm i'm a conversationalist so i can happily chat about pretty much anything actually yeah yeah sometimes i think about like i imagine richard and i my husband and i getting our scripts for the day and my my script pile is like way thicker

than his script i've got way more lines per day that I say than he does that means you'll get the bigger Winnebago yeah exactly bigger Winnebago and then probably like your teenage daughter saying that character's boring but that's okay just right now you can fast forward my bits oh it's such a joy to talk to you Natalie thank you so much no and you thank you so much it's been lovely chatting to you I hope everything's really good and I hope you have a lovely summer and maybe we'll talk again in the future that'd be nice you can pop on mine maybe a regular thing you can pop on mine and talk about how you do seven loads of washing a day you know seven people's washing uh You know what?

Well, I've spoke about this before because it was always on my mind, but basically during lockdown, laundry was completely my job. I mean, I do it a lot anyway, but in the lockdown, Richard was doing the cooking and I was doing the laundry. But laundry, no one ever says, you know what, thank you. Never. I opened the drawer and that top i wore yesterday back in the drawer clean thanks but if you make a nice meal everybody goes oh this is great well done and it's a moment of

the day isn't it that's the thing it's the highlight of the day the meal it certainly was in those times you know everyone's looking for what are you doing the smells that we're gonna sit around there and have a nice time sifting through the colours yeah and the pants is um it's not the highlight Sophie it's backstage yeah yeah it's backstage yeah but but the most important bit actually the backstage always is yeah and also I quite like it I quite like a bit of laundry I get a bit obsessed with it even on holiday if we wherever we stay you like a washing machine yeah yeah I get it it's lovely to come home with a clean case of clothes that is literally one of my favorite things i get really competitive with myself about making sure it's all clean that's odd yeah anyway just try relax save it for the

podcast right they're very good this is gold this. Well, listen, have an amazing rest of your day. And you. And happy birthday for next, well, for, when is it? A couple of weeks time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, have a lovely day, Natalie.

Brilliant. Thanks so much, Sasha. Hello. Meet again. Yes, if you don't follow Nassad Lee Cassidy on Instagram, I really recommend it because she's very sort of funny with a very light touch. I like it.

Hopefully you sometimes think of me that way. I'd love to be described that way. She's like funny with a light touch. Anyway, since I spoke to you at the beginning of uh that conversation i well it's been quite dramatic uh still sunday um obviously um and i was making some food for my friend and i for lunch and while i was in the kitchen my i think fairly canny I mean look Mickey's the youngest of the bunch so I kind of think of him like the baby but really you know he's fine he knows more than more than like a baby really do you know I mean he's quite together I think and I think he's quite okay I'm going to

use the word sneaky occasionally because he'll do things you know though say things like don't come in when he's doing it anyway he basically within the space of about three minutes did about 60 pounds worth of purchases on the playstation that i'd let him play on for a minute that he wasn't supposed to play on that had my card stored in it from something else oh what a waste of money oh anyway I've taken my card off um and the other thing that's happened is a much nicer thing which is that Richard is going to come home for his day off from tour to come home which is lovely he wasn't definitely going to do that but he is which is so nice because he's been away for a whole week and then he's away all of next week so I'm really glad because the sun is shining and I kind of want a bit of family time, really.

Before I go back in the studio, I'm songwriting with lots more people this week. Trying to think how many sessions I've got this week. One, two, three. Three different writing sessions this week. Two with people I know, one with someone I've met, but I've never written with before.

And it's coming together. The album is coming together. I kind of had a great week a couple of weeks ago where everything was really effortless and the last couple of weeks have been fun but I'm not sure I've got that feeling like I don't know I need to write another one where I'm like woohoo where I'm lifted and kind of skipping along because it really is so good for morale so who knows maybe that's tomorrow that's how this thing works sometimes and how nice that the sun has been shining I had a lovely Eurovision Richard's coming home and I'm 60 pounds down on some stuff I didn't need apart from that all is well in the world and I hope you have a lovely lovely week until you come

back to me again if you do thank you so much to natalie cassidy for speaking to me i absolutely loved our conversation thank you to my lovely producer claire for um producing the chat richard for editing this ella may for the gorgeous artwork and most importantly you for your ears i hope you have lots of fun in the sun if you get the chance. And I'll be here with another lovely guest next week. So take care. See you soon. Thank you.