Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 133: Reshmin Chowdhury

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Reshmin Chowdhury is a sports broadcaster who’s had a love of football since she was a little girl. Growing up in a large and close Bengali community, she told me her childhood memories are of being the only girl, surrounded by boys, watching football on TV. Reshmin’s drive to break into the world of sports presenting was very strong - much to the surprise of her teacher Mum and accountant Dad - and she is proud to have made it, although she feels it shouldn’t have been that hard. Her parents were very supportive of her dreams and we talked about how difficult it was losing her Dad 3 years ago, and that he was always the person she would pick up the phone to speak to after a big match. Reshmin shared how her children hold a mirror up to all her faults, including losing her temper. She says she’s working on this and I’ve asked her, when she's solved that one, please share the answer with me too! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We get it. Life gets busy. Luckily with Palaton Tread, you can still get the challenging workouts you crave. Only have 10 minutes? Take a quick Palaton workout. Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45 minute tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Palaton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push. Find your power. Palaton. Visit OnePalaton.ca. Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis Bexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm

a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello and greetings from Cyprus. I'm here for a whistle stop gig. It's a corporate thing and I flew this morning. I left my home at about 5am.

I'll be back home by lunchtime tomorrow. And when I made the plan of this weekend I was like yeah I'll pop off on Saturday I'll do the singing cut back Richard's away at the moment as well so I was like I'll get back in time for Sunday lunch and I'll be fine didn't actually Google flight times to Cyprus it's quite far five hours each way anyway that's what happened all good I'm looking out over a beautiful sunset. I've had a swim in the sea. I'm about to start getting ready for tonight's thing.

And this has been a good week actually. It's been pretty productive. I've been doing bits and bobs for the new album. Did my press shoot yesterday with such an amazing team. Really impressive. All the people I wanted to work with on a Friday, everybody was really in good spirits, we nailed it, brilliant photographer, stylist, glam, oh yeah, I was loving it. All women just doing their stuff and being fab and it was really celebratory and fun and that's exactly what I want for my new record, I just want it to feel really happy, upbeat and me. I feel like that's what I should be embracing right now and that's what's in my heart as well, so all good.

And then yeah, I have to do this next week when I get back. I've got my video shoot for the new single, which I can't wait. And then after that, I do have a quiet little patch before I go away and support, take that on tour in Australia and do a few other bits and bobs. So it's actually, I feel like I've got him in a nice little patch. I've been able to do things at home, I've been doing work and

just feeling quite prepared and quite communicative. You know when you've got your to-do list and you're actually getting on with it? I'm feeling a bit like that. So don't quote that back to me on Tuesday when I've let it all go, but for now I'm feeling good. And I'm very excited about you hearing my conversation with Reshbin today. So Reshbin Chowdhury is Sky Sports presenter, covers all sorts of sporting events actually. And when we met, it was the day after the Euros match, so we were talking all things football. And she's the real deal on all levels actually. Firstly, she's really put in the graft to have the career that she has. She grew up in a Bangladeshi community in London where she was the girl on the sofa with all the boys watching the sport and it was not the expectation from her family that

she would do something like sport for a living. I think a much more traditional role was expected. So obviously she's the first one to say how completely supportive her parents have been. And in fact we spoke about her dad who sadly died a few years back and how much he would have loved to see all the things she's achieved in the time since he's left. But she also had to really fight for her space to be the presenter that she is now, and she is put in the graft. And actually, I think, so Reshbin has two young children, a boy and a girl, they're only, I think,

a year and a half apart, and they're now 11 and 12, I believe, might be 10 and 11. But I think when we were speaking, the enormity of the sacrifices and how spread things she's been over the years really hit home because she said she felt that there was maybe a period of five or six years where she was just in the trenches, just trying to nail the job and be across all things with her kids and be present for them and be present for work. So now is a point where she can really celebrate her achievements and feel like she's

done what she set out to do. And she's got this drive that radiates from her but also warmth and humility and honesty and fun actually. We were laughing a lot. She's a very twinkly person, very energized, very open and warm. So it was a really, really lovely chat. And I'm just, it's just so impressive to see what she's achieved actually. And we had lots of things to talk about. And she got a big break presenting for Real Madrid TV from 2008, and that's where she really cut her teeth. But before that, putting in the hours, doing Bloomberg, doing news channel things, just any opportunity to get into journalism and gravitate towards sports

because that's where the journalistic mind and the passion really meet in the middle. So it's a really lovely conversation. Oh, to top it all off, Freshman's Ball is also doing this on her own. She and her children's dad are no longer together, I think it's about four years ago. So, you know, lots of things that she's just taking on herself and managing and you know what I'm talking about. I will leave you with Earth I'm gonna go and get ready for my show while I listen back but yeah lovely talk to Reshman nice to have a little bit of warm summery late summery sort of breeze feeling from Cyprus here and this beautiful I'm looking at every sunset as

I speak to you it's quite actually, we're having a romantic moment together you and I and I will see you on the other side. Bye, have a lovely lesson seen a bit. Lovely to see you, Roshan. How are you today? I'm really good actually. So this is a, I'm not sure when this will go out, but it's post-England defeat in the Euro final. So, but I'm all'm not sure when this will go out, but it's post England defeat in the Euros final. So yes, but I'm alright. Manage my expectations and you know, you're having a cup of tea at your house, so I'm all good. Yeah, so last night was England-Spain Euros final and yeah, I'm feeling a bit weary from it myself actually. I think it's just all the adrenaline as well and

if I'm honest as well I got to that point now where I watch the players and they at the end of the match they suddenly look so young and then you feel like oh they're all somebody's baby. So you sort of have this weird investment of like wanting them to win also so that they just look happy. Yeah just to make those poor little babies happy yeah it didn't happen this time but I don't know working in sport I think you become a little not desensitized to it because you obviously want England to win But I think you get used to the disappointment that it might not happen

Yeah, I think more than I did when I was younger So I've sort of managed all my expectations before the game. I knew Spain was a better team. Anyway, Spain was always my second team I used to live there. I have a real soft spot for them. So, you know, it's all good. You've worked in Spain for quite a long time. A couple of years in Spain and then I also went to and fro from Spain all the time actually with my work. So, yeah, Spain is always a but anyway, there's always the next tournament. And what does your working week look like at the moment with regard to sport? Where are you? What are the things you're up to?

Yeah, it sort of differs all the time and I think it depends. When the football season is busy, then there's obviously a lot more going on. Then there's a couple of days during the week where I might be doing the European football, I'll do the Premier League at the weekend. And I think it's probably a bit like yourself. It's just varied depending on what is going on at that particular time. And then there's always little bits that come in from other angles as well. It's a lot more manageable than it used to be.

And I think one thing I do say is that I feel like I've got a bit more balance in my life than I used to before. And again, something you'll be familiar with, I think when you're a mum and you are balancing your job, which isn't all in one place, often it's travelling from here, there and everywhere. That's I think where there's a huge challenge to kind of, you know, it's that whole spinning plates. That's where you literally are juggling everything. And I think now, at this stage of my career, I think I have a bit more balance in terms of I'm not traveling as much, bit more home-based and I like it. No, scrap that, I love it. I feel like it's just what I've been working towards and what I've needed after a lot of years of kind of doing it the other way around.

Yeah, that's interesting, because we're actually pretty much the same age and I wonder if you sort of get to this point where you've put in so much groundwork and you've sort of cultivated, as you say, like pretty much where you were hoping to get to. But it must have been such a crazy job to get to this point. And I wonder when, was it always going to be sport and was it always going to be football? Yeah. I mean, well, it was in my mind, but in the practical sense, how on earth was that ever going to happen? Because I started watching football during Italia 90.

It was David Platt's overhead kick against Belgium, and that happened to be the first game that I ever watched. And I was like, wow, football is amazing. Up until that point, I hadn't even noticed. My brother's 14 months older than me. He used to play, he used to watch. I wasn't even interested at all. And that was, I always say it's kind of the moment

that changed my life in terms of where my interest suddenly went. I was just obsessed with football after that point. And if someone had told me back then, oh, this is the job you're going to be doing when you're this age, I would never have believed it. It was just a pipe dream. It was just something I would always have loved to have done, but I wouldn't have ever expected

I'd be able to get there because the landscape of sports broadcasting was so different. It was very male-dominated, very white dominated, and even to cultivate that and get in, I found it actually just so difficult to just get through any kind of door in terms of broadcasting in general. Football was always my dream, but how on earth as a woman who doesn't know anyone in sport. I didn't have a parent who had loads of contacts because of their association with the game. I didn't know anyone in TV. And I'm Asian.

The face doesn't fit. People didn't assume that you would know about football even. So it was getting in that was the hardest part, I think, just knocking down the doors to sort of try and get there. And eventually it did happen. But through a lot of endeavor and a lot of hard work. And I always say that I think my route into football was so difficult and so much harder than it needed to be.

It shouldn't have been so hard. But because I didn't have the contacts and things, that was the hardest part. But then I look back and I think, well, I didn't have the contacts and things, that was the hardest part. But then I look back and I think, well, I still did it. So it's that satisfaction of just, I always believed that I could and should be doing the job that I do. And I'm very lucky in the sense that my parents have always given me that confidence to believe that I was good enough to do anything that I wanted to, that I was talented enough to achieve anything I wanted to.

So yeah, it was a real driver and a real motivator. This door might be closed just because of whatever the circumstance might be, but that doesn't mean that I don't belong in it because I know that I love this sport as much as anybody else. And yeah, it was always the dream. Football was always the dream. Yeah, I mean it's phenomenal. I'm listening to you talk about it. It's so true because I don't think I've met many people that work in an industry like broadcasting who haven't had known someone some point somewhere.

And I kind of had the flip of you. I kind of grew up very much around it so I know exactly how those things work. My dad used to work at the BBC, was director, my mom was presenter and then after they... Loved your mom growing up. Me too. Phew! Both my step parents also worked in TV. So I know how those things work with foot on the door.

And not just that actually, simple things like the language of it. So when you were, it's funny actually, I had a girlfriend at school who, when I went round to have a play date at hers when I was 11, she had Wisden cricket annuals and a line on a shelf. It's quite an incongruous thing to see in young film or friends' bedrooms. What is that? Yeah, are those your dads? Why are they there?

And she just adored cricket and she went on to, she actually became the first female director of live cricket for Sky Sports. Amazing. Which I think is super cool because you know someone. So I was thinking for your peers, for your friends, they must have been like, well she was always the girl that was absolutely obsessed with football. Yeah, 100% that. So they must have come to see it from the outside.

100% that. And actually, and this is the thing, they're the ones who I value so much because they're the ones who were there right from the beginning. So when my friend, I mean, I grew up with a massive community of Bengali friends because that's how we grew up. I didn't grow up going to football at the weekend. I grew up going to my friend's houses. Because we were second generation, our parents were first generation who really, you know, kind of kept those communities going.

So my network is huge in terms of like people I've grown up with and people I actually know personally. So they're all like, I feel, I always say, I feel like I've got like hundreds of cousins. And then I've got my school friends, uni friends, everyone. They've seen the journey from the beginning. They've seen, from that point when I was 11, and I would watch football, it would be me

and all of our family friends, all the boys that we grew up with, they would all come to our house. I'd cook for everyone. We'd all watch or we'd go somewhere or we'd watch the football all the time. And I was always the only girl watching football with my brother and all of our friends. And it was the most normal thing in the world for me, but I literally was the only girl. So when they see the journey, when they say to me, God, I know how hard you've worked, they really do know how hard I've worked because they know that it was such a distant dream

from where it began and it was born out of a natural passion to want to do it. So yeah, it means a lot when they notice that journey and they always do, always, exactly as you said, it's just kind of when you've seen it from the beginning to where it's sort of gone or going Obviously not ended. You know, it's like, you know, they they know that that path has not been easy They know what I've had to come up against they know all the you know, it's the stuff that's the unglamorous stuff

it's when you're starting out and you're You're working, you know, whatever hour of the day because that's when somebody needs you to be working. You're working for absolutely nothing. My parents were both professional people who worked really, really hard. My dad was an accountant. My mom retired now, but she actually retired when my daughter was born. I was like, Mom, you don't need to worry. You just come and look after the baby as well.

She was a secondary school teacher. Me doing this job was so different to anything they could have imagined. When I was first working as a runner, I did a politics and economics degree, so all my friends from my university were out there getting graduate jobs at whatever multinational company or going into accountancy or going into law, going into whatever they were. They were all earning quite decent first salaries. I was on like eight grand as a runner for a production company. I think I did the big breakfast first of all.

My dad could not get his head around it. He's like, but you studied this and you got this degree from this university. He was an accountant. He always said, but why don't you do accountancy? I'm like, what can I do accountancy? That's the most boring job in the world. But it's just like, they could not get their heads around it. So I kind of had those, it's a real cultural kind of barrier that I guess I had to push against. So whilst my parents thought it was really strange that I was going for these sort of jobs instead of what they thought was more traditional and where probably I could have,

should have ended up, or in their minds, not in mine, I'm glad where I went, but they saw that there was a determination in me, they saw that there was that genuine passion, they saw that I was in my mind working towards something even though that path wasn't clear because there was no path at that time. When I got into this industry, it was kind of make your own way and I literally was like a lost lamb just trying to find how can I get the experience to do this and then that will take me into this, but I can't get into that so I need to find out who that person is. I was the person who used to watch all the credits on a TV program and go right that's the executive producer or that's the main person that I need to write to. Find out their email address, write to them, call them. You know that's what I used to do.

Now you can get in touch on LinkedIn, on you know on X or whatever it is. You can go direct to people but from that point view, it was alien to my family as well. That's so brilliant though. I love the idea of you having that drive and looking at the names and being like, yeah, I just love it. I'm going to unlock this somehow. I just kind of, I was just one of those people who just, it was like a quiet confidence in my ability that I can do it and should be doing it.

And just because it's hard, it doesn't mean that I can't do it. Not that I ever thought that I'd be able to do all the things that I have, but that was always the dream. So yeah, it was a quietly working away. I always call it the stepping stones. I had to build my own stepping stones and try and find like I said get the relevant experience here then that might open that door and that might open that door and it's yeah sort of going about it in a very roundabout way I would say.

Well yeah I suppose it's a lovely thing to have this conversation with you at this point because it's like you used the term stepping stones and I was thinking too it's like building something and every brick you know you've done it yourself. And whilst there must have been so many times we weren't feeling that confident, how nice to sit here from this vantage point and just feel that ownership over everything you've achieved. That's exciting.

And when I was saying before about language of it, I was thinking, because there's so much, I was picturing your accountant father being asked by his friends, what's your daughter? She's a runner and they're like, what on earth is a runner? What does a runner do? And there's all these, the language and the culture of broadcasts. If you're not inside it, it's pretty gobbledygook.

It's alien. 100%. 100%. It's so true, isn't it? And especially sort of, we always joke about it, like explain it. If you do something that's slightly different, explaining to Asian parents what you actually do is one of the hardest things. I mean, my brother's a doctor, thank God. So, you know, one of us has like the standard normal job. But for me, it's like, well, she does this and she does, oh, you know, yeah, she's, you know, working here and going abroad and doing this, that. And honestly, they just didn't get it. I had to just sort of find a language that was okay for them to then translate to their friends, they can explain to what I'm doing. And most people probably like, honestly, I'm sure my

aunties and uncles, we all call them aunties, even we're not related, but that's what we refer to them all as. They were like, how's it all been doing? All right, okay. You know, there's so many conversations like that when my poor parents just had to go, we can't even tell anyone what you do properly because we don't know what it is. I'm like, all right, don't worry, it's all leading somewhere. Just chill. It's all going somewhere.

How brilliant that they just supported you though. They did. Every parent wants their kid just to feel like there's some sort of security around them. Yeah. When the net gets pulled of security around them. Yeah. When the net gets pulled and they leave home. Yeah, absolutely. I think that is it.

But then there is a sort of, there was a funny tangent actually, or like complete sort of loop where, again, explaining this to my parents. So after sort of working as a runner and, you know, like I said, not earning very much, and then I went abroad for a couple of years to work with, again, like to present, even to explain to other people, it was a production house that used to work with sort of big publications, newspapers and things. And they used to present, sorry, produce those supplements that would come out, whether it was on something specific like oil and gas in the Middle East or something.

So I used to work on those for a year. I worked in five different countries and I think it was 2004 now. So that was all quite glamorous. Oh, Reshmins here doing da-da-da-da, Reshmins in Dubai doing this, Reshmins in Nigeria doing X, Y, Z. They kind of got used to all of that. Then I started working at Bloomberg. I got a position there.

For the first time, it was like a really good salary working as producer there. For the first time it was like a really good salary working as producer there. And my dad, as I said, being the accountant, he basically out of nowhere, he just did this spreadsheet of what I would earn after tax every month. And he's like, look at this, this is really good, isn't it? I'm like, you have the time to do this. I was so surprised. He was actually like, oh my God, she's finally got a good job. And two months later, I left because I was offered a role to sing in a theatre production. And I remember, imagine telling my dad that after all this. After the spreadsheet. Yeah, after the spreadsheet gate. And I'm like, dad, so I've been offered, but I don't know if you know Nitin Sauny. Yeah, so Nitin, he worked with some family friends of mine

and I met him at the wedding of Akram Khan, who's a dancer. And it was his wedding and I met Nitin and I just said, look, can we chat about music? Because I've been singing since I was a kid and I'd love to work with you. And then I did a couple of things with him and then he offered me this thing. And basically we were starting,

it was to start at Sadler's Wells, do a couple of shows there, and then tour with this theater production for six months. So there's no way I could do my job at Bloomberg while I was doing that. And Bloomberg at that time, I don't know if it's different now, but at that time, we're talking 2006 now, it was once you leave Bloomberg, you never come back.

So it was kind of, well, you've done two months of the job, but you're out now. If you're going to do this, there's no sabbatical. I mean, there wouldn't be after two months. So honestly, explaining that to my parents was, well, my mom kind of got it. She understood the passion behind it, whereas my dad was like, oh god, I've done the spreadsheet. But again, it was one of those where I just said to my mum, because she would understand this better than him, but I just said, look, I will get another opportunity in journalism, but I will never get another opportunity in music to do this.

Because those things don't come around. There was a band with the theatre production, I was the lead female singer of the band. And I was like, it's just never going to happen again and what an experience to be able to do to be able to look back on. And it's exactly how it worked out in the end. I did that for six months and I realized at that point actually that I actually think, I think my brain ticks more in the news side than it does in the music side. And I think the music will always be something that is a side thing as it always had been

growing up. And because when I met Nitin, he actually said to me, I mean, I went to his house and I, you know, he just said, you know, just sing me something. So I sang a song in Bengali that I learned, it was like the first Bengali song I ever learned that my dad had taught me when I was about four. And then I sang Fleetwood Mac, Dreams. So I sang two.

And he said to me, he's like, have you ever considered music as a career? And I said, well, kind of, but not really looked into it. And he said, well, he said, you could really do well, because you sing equally well in both genres. You really should think about it. And I was like, oh, okay. And then, like I said, I did a couple of shows

and things with him, and then I did the theater production. And then while I was on the theater productions, you'll know this, that when you're touring, whatever, there's so much time where you're idle and you're thinking about other things. And I think I missed the TV production side. I missed that kind of the whole brain ticking of, right, this happening now. And it's probably a really unhealthy way to think, to be honest. I think now, if I were to make that decision now, I would go for the passion of music and

go, you know what, I love this so much more creative or whatever. But at that stage, it was really different and my brain ticked in a very different way at that time. So yeah, and again, that diversion of doing the music. But do you know what, it really helped me as a presenter as well, because like I said, singing is something I did when I was I was a kid. So singing in front of a group of people, whether it was 100 people or a thousand people, it never fazed me because all my nerves of standing up in front of people and essentially presenting myself, whether it was through music or whatever, all those nerves went when I was younger. So when I was doing it as an

adult, it didn't make a difference to me. I don't care. That sounds pretty impressive though, because sometimes when you get older, the nerves creep in just because as you get older, didn't make a difference to me. It didn't. I don't care. That's actually pretty impressive though, because sometimes when you get older, the nerves creep in just because as you get older, new things occur to you to be worried about. Yeah, it's really funny. For me, to be honest, it's gone the other way that I don't get nervous about people. I don't care if it's an audience of a billion or if it's just one person. I always see it as my job.

And I remember when I was singing, one of my friends, who was the musical director on the touring production, and she said to me, you know, the one thing, and you all know this really well, is that every time one discipline that you learn doing a tour is that it doesn't matter whether you've done this a hundred times or not, but the people watching you there are seeing you for the first time and you've always got to keep your level every single time. So I always see that that experience in the meat of doing that theatre production was so precious in terms of that mentality for the presenting side. So it's it all kind of I always feel like everything falls

into place how it's meant to and every story develops how it's supposed to. But that was just, it was six months of doing something completely different and away from presenting, well, I wasn't presenting then actually, I was behind the camera then. So it kind of probably prepared me for it in a different way. And then, and as I said, the journalism happened as it was going to happen, but it was in news, it wasn't in sport. So because I didn't know anyone in sport, I in sport, I leaned into what felt more natural at that time because I did politics, news just felt like the only way to get in really.

So yeah, it's been quite a journey. And maybe you needed to step to one side of it just to sort of actually clarify. Yeah, if that's what... Where you're headed, how you're feeling, everything. And I think it's interesting what you said about during the day when you're in a theatre and feeling like... Because yeah, you sort of have to put yourself almost on like a red standby light when you're before the performance.

Yeah. But I think when you're part of TV and that production world, there's just industry everywhere and so many jobs and so much sort of... There's an energy... Paraffin alien. Yeah, isn't there? And I think if that's what you're drawn to, you have it in abundance with that. And a lot of people all doing their jobs all the time and that camaraderie. Whereas I think when you're touring as a band, you sort of have to make your own

fun during the day. There's not really that much to get... Well, I say that, there's probably loads of things I could be doing. You're probably just starfish. Yeah, I've interpreted it this way. Take a quick Peloton workout. Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45 minute tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Peloton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push, find your power. Peloton, visit onepeloton.ca.

So how did you get back into, how did you get to into sport from that? Wow. Well I went to BBC London after that and again this is how it happened. It was through a friend who introduced me to someone at BBC London and said, you know, do you want to come in? It literally always is someone you know. That's why the initial stages were so hard. But it was great. I went to BBC London for, I can't remember how long it was, but I remember at that time that I kept thinking, well, how do I get into the presenting the broadcasting side? Because I'm working in the background and that's

great. You know, BBC London, it was good because you did a little bit in the gallery where you're kind of working on the production and seeing what the production team are doing, you're researching and you're producing the show as well and producing elements of the show. So it was a real sort of multifaceted role actually back then. I don't know how it is now, but it was great back then. And I was doing a lot of freelancing as well.

So freelancing for lots of companies. And actually at that point, I was, I remember just thinking, I just don't know how I'm going to get to do what I want to do. At the moment I'm so far away from it and I literally was just, you know, there was one role I'd get up at five in the morning, go in and I'm producing on something but it's not what I want to do. It's kind of just you're doing things that you hope will lead somewhere and actually

it's not really leading anywhere. You're just sort of there and you're hoping for something to happen. And the way I got into sports broadcasting there, so now I'm going back to sort of 2008 and I'd been married for a year at that time and there was a, it was the media guardian at that time, they used to advertise, you know, TV jobs and or media jobs of by definition and You'd never see a job for a presenter because presenter roles always came up through people, you know, it was always in-house it was never advertised and and Real Madrid TV had advertised for a presenter and It was so misleading because what they said was you have to be

And it was so misleading because what they said was, you have to be fluent in English and Spanish. And I'd been to Spain five years earlier to learn Spanish. I just went, when I did my journalism post-grad, I did a language course as well and I went to Spain, only for a couple of months, but I knew I spoke it pretty well. But I thought, oh God, I'm not fluent enough to actually carry a program. So, oh well, I didn't really think about it.

Literally just thought, oh, that's such a shame. Plus, I mean, I'm married anyway, so I'm not going to go over to Spain, whatever. And I remember I had a day off and I was watching, like, flicking through the sports channels and I saw Riamdra TV. It used to be on the Skype platform at that time. And the presenters were all talking in English. And I thought, you know, why did they say you have to be fluent in Spanish if the presentation is in English? And I was, again, this is me being so annoyed that I didn't clock that in the first place. I just went online, found a number for Real Madrid, picked up the phone, called them up, and on the phone

for ages, oh, call this number, Real Madrid television, keep me on the phone, who to speak to, let's find out who you have to speak to, actually call this number, they'll be able to help you, da da da. So I called up and I just said, I said, who's the boss at Rearmdra TV? And they said, oh, it's this lady, her name's Karma. And I said, is she there? Can I speak to her? And they said, oh, sorry, she's not here. I said, can I grab her email address then?

So I took her email address, I just emailed her directly. I completely ignored the ad, because by this point I'd look like an absolute idiot, because the ad had already gone by this point. I thought, flip it out, you can't be that unprofessional. So I just said, look, I'm really interested. I speak French, I speak Spanish, and I'd really like to just chat. And I remember she just emailed straight away and what she did was she, they obviously put me in the same kind of in that pool of people they were looking for anyway.

I went out to Spain for a day. I always say this, that I took three pairs of shoes, I took a pair of flats to just be comfortable, pair of flip-flops because I knew it would be hot out there, and a pair of heels for the interview. So flew out in the morning, came back in the evening, and my ex-husband picked me up from the airport. No, actually beforehand he was saying to me, because he used to work in recruitment,

and he's like, well, why are you going out for this if you're not going to take the job? And I said, look, I just want to put myself in as many positions as possible where, you know, there's no pressure here. I can just go out there and just see how the screen test is because I've not been for a screen test before. I just want to see what happens. And he was like, okay, because I think with recruitment, it's black or white.

There's no gray, whereas I'm very much a person in the gray area, very much that person. And I went out for the interview, like I said, put the heels on for the interview, went much that person. I went out for the interview, like I said, put the heels on for the interview, went and did that. You know when you have absolutely no pressure and you're so relaxed and you just go in and you just chat away, whatever. I mean even on the screen test there were a couple of things I just stumbled on, on the autocue. I went, oh sorry, I just carried on. Very natural and I just got on, very natural. I don't know what happened in the process of the application, but somewhere along the line they offered me the job.

I remember at that time saying to my ex, he just said, you know what, and I'm one of those people, because of the languages and all of that stuff, I'm very drawn to Europe and working in different countries with different people and different cultures and things. It was just a great role. It was a fast track. I would have had to wait 10 years at the BBC at that stage to do all the things I would have done in a week at Real Madrid TV. It was perfect.

And, you know, initially my ex and I said we'll do it for a year. And then by, you know, because he, you know, having worked in recruitment, he just said, you know what, you kind of need another year to really settle in and be good at your job. In the first year you're still learning it. He's like, look, we'll make it work. Just stay another season. And then, and that's what I did in the first year, you're still learning it. It's like, look, we'll make it work. Just stay another season. And then, and that's what I did. And it was, it was amazing. But I can tell you that would never have happened if I was looking for something in the UK.

I would never have had that opportunity to just do all the things I knew I could do, but just to get the exposure and the opportunity to do it. And also I suppose it felt a bit under the radar of all the people you've been trying to network with and work alongside, because you go somewhere other and everything is other. Yeah, everything is other. You say you're in the grey area when you went to the job, but really it was actually still quite black and white, but it's like a way of giving yourself that safety. Like, oh, I'm just going for the screen test, it's fine. Yeah, so whatever.

But actually, when you get off of the job, you take the job. Yeah. Because actually it's what you want to do. And it led to so much. It kind of, it set up the foundation for so many other things I've done since, whether it's like working in European football, for example, and using the languages and, you know, having had relationships with people in those clubs. And it just helps.

It makes, it's so organic, but it really, really helps. It makes you so much more accessible when you're out there. I used to do Champions League football reporting for about eight years. And when UEFA, all the UEFA people, they know me, they know that I speak those languages. Oh, do you want to speak to this person? Do you want to do an interview with Zidane? Yeah, let's do it. That kind of thing.

You're not going to offer it to someone who's just an English speaker from a British network because they're not going to be able to do the interview, whereas with me, they'll, you know, they know. And, yeah, I mean... Super impressive being able to do interviews in other languages. Super impressive. You know what? You just make it up at the time.

You're like, oh my God, right, how am I going to... How do you say that in that language? How do you make... And I'm all for making mistakes in other languages because, I mean, not Bengali, Bengali is like my bilingual growing up. So those two, English and Bengali are, interchangeable very easily.

It's just kind of, but whereas French and Spanish are my extra languages, I describe them as. And actually there was a lot of people would say to me like, you know What is the highlight of your career? Is it this is it that you know, this very famous chat between Messi and Ronaldo which was lovely but there was I always say that the hardest thing I've ever done in my career it was interviewing Karim Benzema, so ex-Real Madrid and France One of the you know Ballon d'Or winner is incredible and he joined Real

Madrid while I was there. So it was the same year that Cristiano Ronaldo joined, Kaka joined, Karim joined, Xabi Alonso. It was kind of the last big Galacticos push, back then. It was 2010, I believe it was, or 2009. And so my boss was like, Rashmin, you speak French, don't you? And I thought, oh shit, I haven't spoken French for years. And after I learned Spanish, the French just went, I mean completely went. So I thought to myself, literally at that moment, I thought, if I say yes, oh my God, I'm literally going to have to study like I'm Doing my a levels again like even just to do a simple interview because I've just haven't used that language for so long And actually I never lived in France. So I don't have those kind of nuances in the language

I'm gonna sound like an idiot like just sound like I'm like well, I got you know that And I really thought I could either do that or if I say no, I'm never going to speak French again. So I thought, no, I need to take this opportunity. But sort of, so Kareem sat down, he was really quite, he was 19 at the time, so quite shy actually, not someone who was very sort of giving in terms of giving answers, long answers or anything like that. And I had the guys in my ear were speaking to me in Spanish. And

then in my head, I'm thinking French, French. Oh my god, it's like the worst nightmare. Because like I said, between Bengali and English, it's very easy. It's so interchangeable. It's not even I don't even think about it. Whereas my other languages on top, they're not my natural languages. So there's a little bit of a thought process that goes in. Plus you're thinking, this is a recorded live interview that's going to go languages. So there's a little bit of a thought process that goes in plus you're thinking this is a recorded live interview That's gonna go everywhere and it's like with this major signing It went really late because I look like I was I look like I was fluent and I actually wasn't Because I mean he gave such short answers and then you're thinking oh my god

Like how do I get the next bit out of him? Yeah, it just kind of happened and it was one of those that you just Yeah, I mean the long and short of it is that Reimdra TV got the best out of him. But it just kind of happened and it was one of those that you just... Yeah, I mean the long and short of it is that Real Madrid TV got the best out of me, I think, in terms of all the things that I was probably good at, I managed to do there. Well, it just kind of, it set a foundation for me. Yeah, my senses were heightened, weren't they, in every single sense? No, you're absolutely right, actually. And it was just a great environment. So it was a real platform. You had a sister, a friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Do you like it? Do you like it? Yes. I mean, go back to my GCSE French. Yeah, we all do. So, I'm thinking the chronology of the Real Madrid must have led us pretty much to the point where you had your first baby. Yeah, well, I went to, I came back and went to the BBC.

Okay. BBC Sports News, and then, yeah, about a year later, I had my first baby. So after all this work, and all these foundations laid, and all this networking and graft, how were you feeling about, did you always want to be a mother? And how did you feel about parking the work and letting that happen? I probably didn't think about the parking the work as much, to be honest. It kind of just sort of, it was sort of, I'm back now in London. I was just doing what I was doing and then was lucky enough to fall pregnant.

And yeah, I've always wanted to be. I mean, I love children. I love babies. I always have. I mean, I'm like, I always wanted to be a mother. So it was, you know, as you know, the greatest blessing. So, you know, when it happened, I probably didn't realize, like I said, how much I would have had to park. And something we were talking about before we started recording was that I had my children

very quick. There's a short gap between them and had I remembered, I would have had a shorter gap. But in the end, it turned out to be 20 months because I think I said earlier, my brother and I are 14 months apart. It's what I know. It's what I wanted for my kids. I had two children under two, which meant the career was parked for quite a long time. I would say probably about three years, I think, I couldn't really advance.

There wasn't really any room for growing in what I was doing. It was sort of, yeah. I mean, as you know, when they're young, you're just in a whirlwind, aren't you? Just trying to manage, navigate, learn all these things that you kind of think that that's what parenthood is, but it's hard. My daughter, who was my first child, was premature. So she was due to be born in October. She was born in August, 29 weeks.

So that's very little. Yeah, very little. She weighed one pound 13 ounces, which is like 795 grams, something like that. So it was, I mean, it was ridiculous. And that's your first baby. That was my first baby. So you kind of, I mean, we sailed through it, to be fair. She was absolutely 100% healthy.

She was just very tiny, but there was obviously new things to navigate that you don't think you're going to navigate on that parenthood journey. But yeah, it was what it was. We just had to navigate a lot of things in a very short space of time. I think I slept for about five years of my life. It's just graft. It's hard, hard work. So I think between 2011 and 2014,

yeah, it was just very much that mode. Yeah. So you're still working a little bit then? I was working a little bit then. My bosses at the BBC were great, actually. They just said, you just come when you want. But in this time, they also moved to Manchester, which meant that I would only do like, I mean, I'd go up for a weekend.

Yeah, I moved to Salford, so I'd only go up for a weekend and do that once a month or a couple of times a month or whatever. It's just whatever I could manage. They allowed me to do that and that was lovely. It just kept me in some kind of a loop, even though it wasn't in any kind of upward trajectory. It was just being in that loop. But then BT Sport launched, I think in 2013, I think it was, and it was literally on my doorstep. But at that point, my kids were zero and one and a half or two or something. And I remember saying to my mum that, it's literally just there, I have to be working for them,

it doesn't feel right that I'm not. Again, it was one of those where someone told me who the boss was, emailed him, heard nothing back, emailed him again. Oh, just following up. Heard nothing back. Got his number, called him up. He was great. I saw him the other day, actually, and I said, I don't know if you remember this because

you were probably in a haze as you were trying to set up this channel, but I remember calling you up and he said to me on the phone that, oh, now I've got you on the phone. Do you want to come in? Should we meet? And it kind of happened like that. So I went to see him and there was nothing at that time, but then something came up afterwards. And again, it was a news program actually, a nightly news program that I could manage okay, because it was on my doorstep.

I could do it when the kids were asleep. And it kind of all at that point it was kind of what I needed but then the year later or the next season was the start of the European football they got the Champions League rights and that was Sophie when the chaos began that was when I really was spinning plates on every single level that I can imagine. Because you were traveling around and away. Yeah, away. Yeah.

So what happened? Let's take a sharp intake of breath. Yeah, exactly. Let's settle into this chaotic chapter. Yeah. So when that was happening, what did that look like for someone like me who doesn't quite know what that would demand of you in your time? Oh, God.

OK, so Champions League football is on a Tuesday and a Wednesday. And then Europa League is on a Thursday. So I was working across all of it, which is fantastic. But sometimes it would mean going on a Monday, coming home on a Friday. Sometimes it could mean, well, there's a game in the UK on the Tuesday, but you still have to get there and do whatever. And then the game is wherever it was, you just had to be there. So yeah, it was kind of just blocking out all of those weeks. And this is for your children, two and three.

Two and three, right. I mean, it was so hard. Like I literally genuinely, it genuinely was so hard. It's like we were saying that you, if you're at home and you've got a routine, I think as a working mother, that's hard enough as it is. But when you've got a schedule that is not linear, and one week it's okay, and then the next minute it goes crazy and whatever, it's really hard to navigate. So it was parents, they live close by, so they would literally come and stay at my house for those.

So it impacts, basically, when you do a job like that, it impacts everyone around you. So you need a support network. And, you know, I had parents would come and stay over for those weeks, but then it's the preparation that goes in beforehand. It's, you know, I'm, don't want to use the word control freak, but there's an element to it because you kind of have to be, otherwise things will happen and everyone will still survive and everyone's still alive by the end of it. But just to have things in order, whether it's making sure the laundry is done so that the clothes are available for them, making sure the fridge is stocked so everything's just there because I know that I'm putting my mom and now my ex-mother-in-law, but I

knew I was putting them out. So I wanted everything in order so that you know, there was minimum chaos for them. But that meant I was taking on all the chaos and God it was like, it was organizing everything before I'd even thought about work. And then work is, you know, there are times when you're on screen, even when you're reporting, you're on screen sometimes. So you've got to think about what am I going to wear? What shoes am I going to wear? Is it neutral colors or black? So if I take all black, then I only need to take one pair of shoes, but then I need to have my outfit that suits...

What coat am I taking? Is it going to rain? Do I need this? I mean of shoes, but then I need to have my outfit that suits... What coat am I taking? Is it going to rain? Do I need this? I mean, how many layers do I take? It's just ridiculous. The amount of meticulous planning on every single level before I'd even thought about work, before I'd even thought about who I was going to interview, before I'd even thought about what questions I was going to ask.

Mental. And you know, men would say to me that, oh my God, you know, we just, when we do it, we just shut the door on our wives, do everything. Which is pretty honest, actually. It's funny because the mental load of a lot of that stuff does still most often fall quite traditionally to the woman, to the mother. And also I think for me, when I'm away and I make those plans and I'm thinking ahead and the stock fridge and all these things, it's also a way of being there when I'm not there. So it is to ease the load if I was there, but it's also a way of me saying,

I care and I'm still present. I've thought about you guys. I've got shape in my head. That's more for us, isn't it? I think it is. Rather than them. Yeah, absolutely. But I think it's all you can do really for the guilt of being away. So you've got your logistics and how you're planning on that. But how are you coping with the emotional toll of...

Because sometimes when I've had to leave for work, I feel like all heavy boots, you just feel like you're just that pull of like, I just want to stay at home. Particularly when you're in a radius of home. The further away you get, sometimes you can cope differently. But when I'm near home, I'm just like, I just want to turn the car on and go home again. Yeah, it's so hard to navigate, isn't it? It's just, I just think mom guilt never goes away.

You always feel like you should be doing something else or doing something more. And that probably is the pressure that we put on ourselves. I think you're so right about the load falling on the mother. I think whether it's societal, whether it's from yourself, whether it's the dynamic with you and your partner, whatever it might be, whether it's their dynamic, what they grew up with, I still think traditionally,

unless the division of labor is split equally, and it's not even the division of labor, it's the division of thought. That's not split. It's the mental side that I think is the hardest part. And the physical, to get all of that in place. Something popped up, actually ironically this morning as I was coming in, on Instagram about, it was like a visual of the mother's mental load and how it looks and it is mental physical emotional and it broke it down and the funniest one was that and the next slide was

The triple threat dinnertime mental physical emotional load of you know meal planning and having everything it it's like it's so true and that is how it is for I think most dynamics whether That's so true and that is how it is for I think most dynamics, whether the partner is understanding or not, I think it just does fall on the mother. So you've got all of that to do before, then you've got the guilt of not being there. You want to be there, you know that your children miss you and mine were little, they couldn't articulate it at that time.

I know I'm putting the load on, the physical load of actually being present there on everyone else. And the only reason I do it all was so that they, to ease the load on them, but also, because I know that if I'm away and they're calling me up going, where's that sock? You know, I don't have time to think about that when I'm doing the job. So it's all to kind of ease it for everyone else. But it just, you're piling it on yourself, aren't you? Because what's the alternative, I guess? It is, I guess, in some ways the way it is. And I think that's where you probably need people around you in the other environment

you're in. So for me, it would have been my working environment to understand the dynamics of what I'm navigating. And in my industry at that time, it wasn't the case. Yeah. So it was a lot to take on, a lot. Yeah, I know. And you're right that it often falls to the mother, but I think as well, if I'm totally honest with myself, I think I don't want to let go sometimes of holding onto it all because

I think there's part of me that kind of prides myself on knowing what's happening in the house all the time. And I don't want to be the person that goes, I've got no idea what the kids' plans are today. Like I don't know who I would be if I didn't know that. I totally agree with you. And I think, you know, sometimes we play this silly game where we'll question Richard on what class, like year number, our kids are in.

All their birth, date of birth, actually. Both work quite well. And he generally gets most of them right, but not all of them. And of course that's funny and it doesn't matter. But for me... God, imagine if you got it wrong. Oh my God. Yeah.

I want to know everything all the time. And I don't know where that pressure comes from. I don't know if it's been passed. I think there's a bit of it that's societal, because I get asked questions when I'm at work about what's happening with the kids. And I want to be able to say, I know exactly where they are and who they're with and how the day, and actually they're, oh, it's four o'clock. They'll be, one is being picked up right now.

And I think it's also what got passed down from my mum, and particularly the time when she was a single parent with me. And so there was a lot of stuff that she was managing. I would see my dad every other weekend, but by and large it was my mum holding onto all of it. Yeah, it's a lot. And yeah, I think it's just that thing of like, how do you, how do you break that or do I even want to is probably the more significant question.

Yeah. Well, it's like you said, because you want to, when you're doing all this stuff in preparation, it's exactly as you said, you want it to feel like you said, because when you're doing all this stuff in preparation, it's exactly as you said, you want it to feel like you're there. So it's that feeling of wanting to be there in whatever guise it might be, even if it's in a phantom way, because I've put your socks out. I used to leave all the matching clothes, because when I used to leave it to the parents to choose clothes, I'd come back and I'm like, oh my God, why did you put them in that?

So I would literally leave everything in sets. That's their clothes for whatever day, but here you go. You just take that and it's done. Then you don't need to find anything. Literally, I was a bit silly, but I just couldn't help it. I just wanted to make sure it was easier for them. So you wanted to know what they're wearing when you're away as well. No, I don't care which day.

Hang on a minute, it's Wednesday. It's me. Yeah, it was more to make their life easier, if I'm honest, but I am a little bit neurotic in those senses, just to kind of have everything ready. But yeah, I think you just, you want to feel present in whatever way that you can, because you're physically not there. And yeah, honestly, like now, when I think about it now,

how those weeks used to go, and sometimes at the weekend, then I'd go to the BBC, so I'd come I think about it now, how those weeks used to go. And sometimes at the weekend, then I'd go to the BBC. So I'd come home and I'm like, oh my God, now I'm doing something else. And in the end, I remember speaking to the boss, I was still in a contract at that time. And I said, look, and actually I was going through a divorce at that time. I said, look, I really don't think I can manage coming here as well. And he was absolutely, you know, he understood completely because doing the European football and then doing this and then doing that on top, it's like, my God, it was just too much.

And sometimes when I think about that era of my life, I can't breathe. I mean, genuinely, I'm like, oh my God. So how long was that going on for then? I think solidly, I would guess probably about, I mean, before COVID, up until COVID. So I want to say six, seven years maybe. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a lot.

Or maybe six, God, 2014. I guess then you put in... Yeah, five years, maybe five solid years. I guess then when we started talking, you said you were in a really good spot. I suppose some of what you did has paved the way for now. So you have to be at peace with... That's a really tricky one because within the... I've got to be really careful how I say it because within the walls that I was in, there

was zero appreciation for the work I was doing. My job wasn't leading to where I am now. What I'm doing now is as a consequence of the effort and working elsewhere actually, not in that particular role because that was probably why that time was harder as well because in terms of like my career, you think that you're putting in the graft and you think that that will lead to something else and your bosses are realizing and they know what you can do and you've articulated what you actually want to do. And then it's not in their plan to give you that role. So you're still doing it.

I see. So it didn't equate to leading me to where I wanted to go. So in a way, you feel almost a little bit sorry for yourself with all that work and the sacrifice and discipline. I felt like it was, well, what was it for then if it wasn't leading to where, if you're just going to, you know, our industry opened to women at a very late stage. But then what happened with me, I think it was people with much less experience than me getting given roles.

And I'm like, but I've just done all of this for you and you're not... So actually in a weird way, it probably made you feel even more invisible in a weird way because you're almost sort of... So you're like, well, what are you doing it for? What am I doing it for if it's not leading to where I want to? And you know, there was a... It took a while for the right bosses to be there for me to say, look, this is really hard.

And if I were to look back now, or if I were to talk to myself back then, as the person I am now, I probably would have tried to speak to someone and say, you know what, this is actually quite hard. But at that time, it wasn't the done thing. It was, well, you know, this is a great opportunity for it. And you know what, now I look back and I see how much I was paid. I was paid so much less than the men doing the job at the time. And that once stung.

And I don't even want to think of how much income I've lost over those years because it's ridiculous. I mean, I should have been earning so much more for the job that I was doing and doing it in three languages as well. And, you know, and there is a whole other thing. It's like when people say, oh, God, women in sport have it really hard. And I'm like, yeah, women in sport have it hard. But don't put us all in the same bracket because you've got women in sport.

You've got women of color in sport. You've got women of color in sport, like myself, who came in at a certain point where it was like a brick wall. Then you've got women in sport, you've got women of color in sport, you've got women of color in sport like myself who came in at a certain point where it was like a brick wall, then you've got mothers in sport. And when you're a mother, it's a leveler. And every single mother, regardless of your background, has the same struggle. So there are levels to women in sport. We all have the discrimination,

but there are, and I feel like I've had all of those, all of those levels. So yeah, it's, and I don't want to sound like I'm moaning. I mean, it's impossible to almost sound like I, I'm not, but I know it sounds silly, but the struggle was real. So, you know, and I would be so inauthentic and so dishonest if I were to say, oh, well it's, you know, it's easier now and I'm happy where I am, but it was so hard to get to that point say, oh, well, it's easier now and I'm happy where I am. But it

was so hard to get to that point without, like you say, being invisible because you're working that hard. You're doing X, Y, Z. You think somewhere along the line. Someone's going to turn around and say... You'd get the reward for what you and your mind are working towards. So if that doesn't happen, it's a bitter pill. And it was a bitter pill for a long time and I had to work to reframe that all in my mind. Yeah. And that's another thing. And this was probably all around the time where I was probably going through my divorce

as well. Yes. So it was a lot going on at the same time. It's loads. Yeah, it's a lot going on at the same time. It's loads. Yes, a lot to deal with. And I mean, the long and short of it is, I'm really proud of myself. And I hope that I'll be an example to my kids. I hope that there'll be other people who say, you know, younger girls coming through who

go, oh, well, you know, it is possible. But it's, yeah, like I said, when I say my journey is harder than it needed to be, it's harder on so many levels and that's why now I'm in a happier place. On the whole reframing thing that I mentioned, that was really important. I remember I talked to my mom about it a lot. I would speak to friends about it. I really believe in my faith.

So in Islam, I always think that things happen when they're meant to. Sometimes you kind of you can't assimilate that in your mind because you think, well, why did that happen and that happened? And then but then I kind of always think there's a journey and there's a point where you're supposed to get to. And my agent, actually, Jake, we used to talk a lot about kind of what is important in your life. When you look at what's important and it's just, well, you're doing it for your kids, aren't you?

So that is how we worked a lot. We used to talk a lot. I mean, I say he's my agent, he's my friend. We talk all the time about, you know, sometimes you pick up the phone and we're on the phone for an hour talking about God knows what. And then, you know, the last five minutes we'll say, oh, do you remember the work stuff? But we talk a lot about all of that and it is just, it's, yeah, it's reframing. It's knowing that there's a bigger picture. It's knowing there's a bigger story. And again, my faith really does help me put that into perspective. Knowing that I've got the back of the people that love me. So all the people, sorry, the people that love me have my back. So whether it's family, whether it's friends, whatever it is, there's, and there's two little

monkeys who are, my God, they drive me crazy at times, but they are my two little precious things and they are, you know, you work to, you're kind of doing it for them at the end of the day. So whatever it is, there's sort of a reason for everything and it kind of all, that story tells itself down the line, doesn't it? It doesn't always come to light when you're in the middle of it. Very similar like that. I think it's a way as well of like, I don't really believe in carrying like big emotions of regret or being bitter or anything. It's not a great look, particularly as you get older, it can really calcify around the edges.

So I think you've got to be able to have the looking at things without the rose tinder spectacles, so being able to analyze the journey you've been on and see what's happening and recognize what the negatives and where there's been a lack of support and you know, you haven't felt as seen or there's things you've had to neutralise, you shouldn't have had to neutralise, but then also to be able to look forward with positivity, so you're not carrying none of it, it's more like you can acknowledge it and keep walking forward feeling light.

I think that's so crucial because negativity can drown you so much. There was a great book I read by a guy called Dr. Andy Cope. It was something about, I think it was the art of being brilliant. I think that's one of the books, but it was when I used to take kids to the library. And I'm still, by the way, one of those people who goes to the library and I take books out all the time and I read murder mysteries or thrillers or crime or something like that because it's the only thing that keeps me interested. I get sent so many sports books and I'm like, I don't really care. I just want to read something that's just complete escapism. Yeah. So I'm at the library all the time. I know that's

like a little known fact about me. I always take out, but I have a book in my bag right now. And I know your books are always returned before they are. No, I do pay fines, but even though I know isn't it just Librarian to speak to well, they always email me and say like, you know the pre whatever pre-due date or whatever and I'm like Oh, yeah Libraries I honestly I do and it was it this was it was the reason I mentioned it is because It was one of those trips to the library with my kids and they were you know

They weren't actually looking at books I'm just running around because it's a big area for them to run around in, in the kids' area. And I just found this book, which was, and I opened it, and I started to read it, and it was literally just your life and my life. Like, I know, it's really difficult, kids are running around, you've got all this laundry to do, you've got to do da da da da.

And it was just the way it started, it was like, God, this is me. And what, God, you know what, I probably should have looked into this before I came here. It just popped into my mind. But reading that book reframed a lot as well at that time because it was about, like, the art of being happy is, oh God, I'm going to really completely ruin this amazing guy's work.

But it was something to do with, it was like, there are bad things that can happen. Say you're driving and you get road rage because someone's a rubbish driver next to you and they ruin your day. But actually they haven't ruined your day. It's just that moment of the day that's ruined. It's about reframing in your mind what is this choosing to be happy. And only like, I can't remember the percentage, but it's something as small as between one and five percent. Like I said, I don't want to ruin his work, but it's something as small as between one and five percent. I don't, like I said, I don't want to ruin his work. But it was something like that, that that's the amount that those that it's that percentage of people who are actually happy in life because you choose to be happy.

I do think it's a lot to do a choice. Yeah. I do and mindset. And like you say, there's negativity that and guilt and awful things that you can take with you. guilt and awful things that you can take with you. But you've got to choose to just go, that's a negative emotion that isn't going to help anyone. I mean, even with, you know, my ex-husband and I, we're absolutely fine. You know, we knew we wanted to split up. There was no heartache around that because we were both ready to split. So, you know, when we moved on to the next phase when, you know, the kids are with me, the kids are with him,

and that was very difficult to navigate by the way, as you can imagine. At that time, it's kind of 50% with me, 50% without, and it was post-COVID and work, and you're trying to navigate all these emotions at the same time. That was probably the hardest bit of the divorce and moving house as well, rather than the divorce itself. But again, you have to just, and it's not ignoring it, you just kind of, it's compartmentalizing in a healthy way where you say that anything bad that may have happened or any negative emotions, it really doesn't help the situation now.

So what do I have to do to be able to move forward in my life with my kids, with me when they are, with all that happening? And it's just choosing to be, to think about it in a healthy way. in my life with my kids with me when they are with all that happening and it's just choosing to be to think about it in a healthy way and that's what I did with all the stuff that was going on but then what happened a year after I divorced was I lost my father. Oh, that's taken over and that was probably the hardest part of the lot. Yeah well that's that's huge. I mean, that's profound, isn't it? Yeah.

But I think what... Oh, God, sorry. I didn't expect that to happen. Oh, well, it's your dad. So that was coming up to three years ago, but again, it's about compartmentalizing. It's like, who cares about this work drama or that work drama? When you're in a situation where you're up against it, so say post-divorce, I'm trying to navigate my kids,

and you know, do I care about who gets this role, or who gets, I don't give a shit, because I don't have time to give a shit. What's important is my kids, their wellbeing, my wellbeing. And when you lose someone, you're just like, none of it matters. None of it. None of that paraphernalia is important at all.

No, I know. And it lets, yeah, I think actually some of how you've spoken about things reminds me as well of a lot of the people you must interview. It's quite a sort of, when you work in high achieving in sport, there must be a lot of that mindset as well of being able to just have the clarity of what do I actually need for right here, right now. I'm sorry you lost your dad. No, thank you.

He was lovely. Yeah, he sounds lovely. He was the best. He was so funny. He was literally one of the funniest people you'll ever meet. But he's a funny accountant. A funny accountant. It's a holy grail.

There are so many language gaps and things like that. Our friends would always say, was uncle said anything funny recently? And we're like, do you know what? He actually has. Do you know there was something the other day, there's so many stories like that. But again, it's like, I always say that losing a parent is like a right passage. Until you've reached that threshold, until you've been there, you will not understand. And I remember when dad passed away,

actually since his passed away, when I realized people talk about, you know, they might say, God, that's so hard, whatever, I think you don't know until it happens. And that's just the way it is. And it's not, you know, slight on anyone else who's trying to give you their sympathy.

It literally just how it is. Once you've been through it, is when you suddenly are like, okay, and then if a friend says they've lost a parent, you know, slight on anyone else who's trying to give you their sympathy. It literally just how it is. Once you've been through it is when you suddenly are like, okay, and then if a friend says they've lost parent, you know. Yeah, you connect on a different way because you know that feeling. And it's, but that's, it was, it was kind of all part of that journey of just going, God, I just don't care. Like, and sometimes I can come across quite apathetic with work things, I think,

but it's more because I had all that kind of graft in the first place. As you say, not being seen, not being understood for working as hard as I did. And I can tell you, I worked hard when I was on those jobs. It wasn't easy. Being a Champions League reporter or a Europa League reporter, it's not an easy role. You're traveling, you're working, you're thinking, you're on the spot. Post-match interviews are the hardest part of our job. Being in a studio is so much easier.

Your job is completely different. But you're with someone there expressing their emotions, whether it's good, bad, whatever it might be. And I would do it in different languages as well. So there was so much pressure to that. And then you think, okay, so you've been on that journey. And then life happens and things happen in the way that they're meant to and it's fine. But then you

lose someone so important to you and then you're kind of in this phase where, and I think it's age as well, it's being where we are now. It's just, God, I look at people going, oh, what's happening? And honestly, it's just like blah, blah, blah, blah. That's how I look at it. When I see people talking like that, I just think, oh, someone says, and then this happening, and honestly, it's just like, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's how I look at it. When I see people talking like that, I just think, oh, for God's sake. But also it's habitual. I think it's very easy to get into a habit of that. Totally.

And now I just moaning, moaning, moaning. The thing I don't moan, by the way. Oh, God, I moan about everything. Moaning is part of life. Sophie, I moan about everything. I literally moan about everything. So do I. But with perspective.

And I just think now it's kind of, I haven't lost my drive by the way, I'm still motivated in very different ways now. But I just think all the stuff that bothered me at that time when the opportunities weren't happening for me and you know, as you would know in music as well, it's not about how good you are, it's not about how well you've done, how much experience you have. You get the job based on who wants you in the job. It's really as simple as that. A friend of mine said it perfectly actually. She said that, and I thought when she said that, I was so stealing that line, it's brilliant. She said there is, you know, say you're, she's a doctor. She said, I mean, obviously I'm

Asian, I know so many doctors, have a have a moment of medical emergency. You know where to come not to me, but I know a man or a woman who can but She said to me that you know, like in in my industry, for example, you know You go through medical school say your parents have a GP surgery and you want to be a GP You just go and work with your parents. It's kind of quite easy. You take over the business That's kind of how it works. But the journey to get to being a doctor is the same for everyone. She said in your industry, the term she used is brilliant. She said there's no quantifiable measure

of whether or not you are qualified to do this role. And it really just depends on who wants you in that role. So I, and that's something in my industry, this role and it really just depends on who wants you in that role. And that's something in my industry, in what I do, that you have to really get your head around and go, well, I didn't not get it because I wasn't good enough because I know I can do that job. I didn't get it because the people in charge wanted that person to have it. And it really is that.

But then when you get to my stage after the whole journey, you just go, who fucking cares? Sorry to swear on your... Am I allowed to swear? Yes, you are allowed to swear. Am I? Sorry. I'm so sorry, kids. Anyone under 18?

Or under 12 these days, isn't it? Everyone knows these naughty words. But no, it's just... It is. You just have a different perspective. And like I said, I always think that the journey is how it's meant to be. Whatever's good for me will happen for me when it's meant to happen rather than, oh my god, that didn't happen.

Oh, I'm so, oh no, why didn't I get this role? Why didn't I get that? I'm just like, whatever, man, it's fine. Just at peace with everything. But it's a journey to get to that point. It is. And it's a mental graft to get to that point. You have to... You've got the layers of experience and abilities.

You're not questioning yourself in that regard anymore. And actually, you know that the right things will mean you're working with people who appreciate you. It's all the good stuff. It's the good stuff. And you've got to... I mean, there'll be the negative stuff, but you don't get head up on that. You don't really focus on the negative stuff.

You don't really care about the negative stuff. The negative stuff is part of it. There's positive and negative and everything. So you just go, okay, well, that part's not so great, but then this part is great. Yeah. So, you know, then sort of coming full circle and just having, like I say, a bit more balance has made, has come at the right time as well. I just did.

That's so good, isn't it? It's a mental balance. So it's like I said, there's mental graft to getting to that point. So whether with me, it's through faith, whether it's through, I remember I started to journal at a certain point, I used to listen to the, I still do actually, the Calm app, you know, in the mornings I'll listen to that. And life gets in the way, it's not that easy. You know, when you see loads of stuff on Instagram, oh, I get up and, you know,

get sunlight the second you wake up. Who the hell has the time to do that when you've got two kids who need to get to school? You know, you don't. Also, then you just feel guilty. Yeah, then you think I should be doing this. I haven't done that or I haven't done this. And you just kind of, you do what you have to do in your framework, but it's just being, having a healthy attitude towards it.

And you have to work towards and you have to know how to work towards that healthy attitude, which is again, another layer to all the things that you're doing. And am I perfect? Of course I'm not. My God, you should see me with my, honestly, I don't know if you feel the same, but I always say that my kids are like a mirror. Like they're literally exposing all the bad things about me. And if honestly, my daughter will say to me, well, you shouldn't be shouting as much because

you always say that you don't want to shout as much and you still do and you shouldn't lose your temper. And I'm like, oh my gosh, she's so right. But like you are making me lose my temper. But then I have to be able to be an adult and control those emotions. But I can't because I lose my temper as well. And I'm trying. I've worked on it.

My friends are hypnotherapists. We worked on it. We did it. You know, talking about how to be that model parent. But life is what it is. And it's hard. Like you're constantly trying to be better. You're constantly trying to be a good person.

But then you've got to allow yourself your flaws as well. I think the temper is something I'm working on. That's something people I work with, if you saw me when I lose... Oh God, yeah, I will drop you a line. It's hard not to be patient. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard.

I think, again, it's about being a mother because you're balancing the emotions of other humans. And receiving their energy as well. And their energy, absolutely. Because in my industry, there are a lot of mums who, you know, there are a lot of mums now, but in the job that I do, particularly, and the job that I was doing before, there are a lot of women who aren't mothers. So you know, you just, you have that extra layer all the time.

And you are constantly thinking about keeping young people alive and emotionally happy and supported and nutritionally looked after. And all the things that come with that on top of just surviving as well. It's just, it's, yeah, there's a lot of juggling. We can just stay here for the rest of the day. Oh, couldn't we? Actually, before I do, I promise I will set you free. I just want to ask you about, because you talked about growing up in this big Bengali

London community. So how are you passing this to your kids? Yeah, that's something, again, and this is another part of the motherhood side. I'm grappled with guilt every single day. I'm grappled with guilt every single day. I'm grappled with it every single day. How do I pass on the traditions and the good stuff that I had growing up? I mean, I'm obviously I've grown up in two cultures, but I'm you know as Bengali as they come, whether it's the history, whether it's the politics, whether it's the music, well whatever it is, I've grown up in such a culturally rich household

that all of this was passed on to us. My brother and I fluent in Bengali, most of our community fluent in Bengali. I used to sing in Bengali, I used to do shows in Bengali, actually, do all of that stuff. So that's something that has been a massive part of my community. And also growing up, I presume Bengali, well, yeah,

Bengali would have been the first language I learned because my parents spoke Bengali to each other. And then my brother and I learned Bengali and then English. You know, you learn anyway, because you're at school or whatever. But with my kids, because my ex and I spoke English to each other, we always assumed that the kids would learn Bengali

from the grandparents. And then the grandparents kept speaking to them in English. We're like, what's the point in that? If you're not going to, you know, come on, this is what we were relying on you guys for. So they don't speak Bengali. I didn't realize that that would be so, the link would be so weak after just one generation.

I really didn't think that. And that's something that I'm grappled with all the time. Like I want them to know who they are because they are 100% Bengali. My ex is Bengali and I'm Bengali. So they should know about their culture. And because they grow up here and it's different, and I grew up here as well,

but with first generation parents, it's so hard. I want to pass that on. I want them to know that Islam is what I've grown up with. I want them to learn the positive things that have helped and guided me through my life. I want them to have all of that. And I'm grappled with it. I mean, you must be as well. It's just, how do I make sure my kids have tradition, culture, values? How do they become good people? How are they morally good if I'm shouting about homework all the time? It's a constant thing, but it's something that's hugely important

to me in short, and answering your question. It's something that I am grappled with all the time. It's something that's on my mind all the time. And I want them to know where they're from and be proud like I am. I guess you can only do what you do, right? And I think, just to sort of mirror back to you some of the things you've been saying about approaching each situation as your, for want of a better phrase, authentic self. You can only do think, when you start out in work or any role actually, you have this idea of like, this is what I think it should look like when I'm doing this, even motherhood.

Oh, okay, I'm going to put on that hat. So what are the things I need to do that make me that role? And then when you've got experience, you realize that the way you interpret it, how you approach it, that is completely fine. You doing that doesn't have to look like anything else. It can just be you when you're doing that. And actually, you can only give them what you think, what you're capable of giving them. Yeah, that's very true. So the guilt is like a...

It's self-inflicted, isn't it? An unnecessary thing. It's self-inflicted, I think. Yeah, because you are not your parents. You are once further down the line, another generation on. You have grown up in a different way. You grew up in a completely different environment everybody does to their parents. So what you're giving them reflects where

you've learned as well. That's true. That's very true. Thank you for the therapy session. Sorry. That's great. That's actually really nice for me to hear because, as you say, reflecting it back to me because it is something that, it's like the next frontier of what I feel like I want to be doing for them as well as making sure that you know they're doing well at school and doing whatever you know it's like it's another level. When you are from a multicultural background it's a different layer isn't it?

And to be fair I don't I haven't got that so I might be talking rubbish. No no you're not at all. It's more just listening to what I'm hearing and thinking. I also think kids are their own people and we always feel like we have to equip them with absolutely everything. But actually, there's stuff they're going to learn other places. You might come in one day and see your daughter talking to an uncle or auntie and asking questions about heritage and you think, oh, wow, I didn't even need to, she's got the curiosity now.

Otherwise it might be a layer you're giving. She might just, some daughter might just shut her off anyway. And they're also maybe not at their age and I think at that age and people come to it later as well. There was a woman I met once who was a Pakistani lady. She wasn't from here. I think she maybe grew up, it was a dinner with an NGO that I went with and we just happened to be sat next to,

funnily enough, her. And then then on my other side there was an older lady who did a lot of fundraising for this charity and all three of us at one point we had this moment where we started talking about our dads I think that the lady on my left the woman from Pakistan she just lost her dad maybe that year I think I lost my dad the year previously and the older lady had lost her dad a few years before and it was one of those moments where we all just connected just talking about that grief actually but funny anyway that's another another side to it but this lady anyway the Pakistani lady she said that I was talking to her about that I said my kids like they're just not getting it and she said you know what it comes later as well like now my kids are teenagers they're 17 16 17 and now they're curious

she's just like so don't be too hard on yourself. It will come. Or it might not, but there's a bigger likelihood that it will because of the foundations that you're laying now. So I was like, okay. And actually I'd forgotten about that conversation until you just mentioned that.

But yeah, so maybe it's, yeah. Like you say, we probably do put a lot of pressure on ourselves and I can only do what I can do at this stage. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully it will come because I think there's enough of it in me for them to see that it's important to me.

Yes. But maybe they'll, yeah, maybe it will happen. Yeah. I mean, the road is long. The road is long. Is that what we're ending on? Because bloody hell, the road is so long. No, actually, I'm just very impressed with you.

I think it's so phenomenal, everything that you've achieved. And it's so nice to know that you feel like you're in a good place with the balance, because I think that's really lovely and positive. But also there's something I thought that was quite sweet is that you said when you were like your relationship with your your passion with football and and you know sports journalism is like you said that when you were little and it was you and all your brothers mates and you'd be cooking and doing curries and watching the football and then you said yesterday you had people over and you watched the football. I'm cooking curry. It's a national dish. Please send them shows or whatever it is in French. You can fret me. But it's so funny, isn't it?

It's full circle. I'm still cooking the curries and having people over for football. No, it's true. It is. It's lovely. It's lovely. It is. It's just such a passion and explaining that to people because, I mean, again, this is

something that I saw in my work. Football comes to people from very, very different places. When a lot of people were wondering why there was a world where football was a sport, and I mean, again, this is something that I saw in my work. You know, football comes to people from very, very different places. You know, when a lot of people were wondering why there was a World Cup in Qatar and none of these fans are authentic because they don't go to football every week with their parents. I didn't go to football every week with my parents. I always say my dad was a risk averse Asian man. He was not going to take us to football in the 90s.

So we didn't grow up going to football. I remember explaining this to a top TV executive once and he was like, who was, you know, for want of a better phrase, not a diverse man. And he said to me, oh, you never went to football with your dad. And I thought to myself, do you not know anyone in any other walk of life? No, I didn't. But that doesn't say my passion for football is any less than yours. It's just we grew up differently. And that's why I just think it's, yeah, I'm happy that I got to live that passion because it was born from such an organic natural place. And football is what I've always loved and always wanted to work in.

And yeah, and fandom comes in many different guises. And you know, the more people that realize that in top places for to be honest is the better it's so important to recognize people from different backgrounds and the input that you can have and what you can bring to the table with your football passion because it's different to oh I used to Go with my granddad every week. It's like that's amazing I wish I had a granddad who I could have gone with every week, but I didn't have to I had You know, I used to love it. We all used to sit together. There's people I've grown up with from a lot of them from when I was born.

You know, we would all go and go to each other's houses and watch the football. And when I did the, hosted the FIFA Best Awards, which was in, I'd done it a couple of times before when they were in Zurich. And this was, but they were both during sort of the COVID era. And this was the first one in London. I'd done it a couple of times before when they were in Zurich, and this was, but they were both during sort of the COVID era, and this was the first one in London since the COVID era. There was one, I think, last year in Paris, but this was in London, and it was with a live audience. And the fact that it was in my hometown, and the fact that I could take my family, my kids, and my mum, my brother couldn't go because he, I didn't know that he couldn't get that evening off work.

I really missed my dad that day because he would have loved all that glam. My dad was always the first person after all these big events that I would do. The first person I talked to on the phone is my dad. My mom just unfortunately blessed her. She's excellent at everything else. She's like the emotional support and everything else. But on those things, it was always my dad. I'd pick up the phone and I'd be like, was it okay, dad? He's like, yes, very good, very good. You were very good. Do you look very calm? You know, whatever

I did. So, and then I took, but going back to the friendships, I took two of my friends, one of them who I've known since birth, who I saw a couple of weekends ago. And one of them was one of the family friends who, like probably since, you know, we were about five and six or something. And it was so nice. Again, it's those friends who've been on the journey. I wanted to take them because I thought, come on, let's just all have a nice night. You guys, honestly, they were like, oh my God, there's Del Piero. There's this person, there's that person.

There's Pep, there's, you know, for me, I work around that, so it's nothing new to me. For them, it was like, oh my God. But it was lovely to just be able to share that with people who've been there from day one, who have grown up with football the way I have, not the traditional way. And also to recognize those life events that do celebrate that, and actually be like, we're all going to be there for that event.

It means a lot. Taking my kids to that, and my mum meant more than the world. It was just like, it's such a different universe you operate in, I'm sure in your industry as well, like for your kids to actually understand the mechanics of what it is that you do is really difficult. You can't really explain it. Oh, well, I was in this environment and then this person turned up and that person. Then I was chatting, one minute I'm chatting to Ikekwase. It's the next minute I'm chatting to this person, you know, it's like,

and then Ronaldo's there and then it's like, what? It just doesn't make any sense. Whereas they got to see, that night meant everything. And that's kind of, you know, lovely. It just comes full circle. It literally is, at the end of the day, it's all about the people who are close to you and you can achieve whatever you want,

but it doesn't mean anything unless your people are with you. That's how I see it anyway. And I think that's how I've been spinning those plates with something, although I didn't realize that the end goal was always that. Yeah, well, I think that, now that is a nice night to end. Yes, I like that.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Sophie. So lovely to chat to you. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lovely reshmim, what a great conversation.

And it's interesting, isn't it? All the layers of it. And I love how she's got such warmth and affection for her family and how their open-minded progressive way of being in that Bengali Muslim community has really set out the cornerstone of her, actually really

flourishing. And yeah, I bet her dad would be incredibly, incredibly proud of what she's achieved in the last while. So thank you so much to her and to her openness. And hopefully it's inspired a few folk actually. I do think it's quite nice, isn't it, to sit back and reflect on the graft and actually be proud of yourself and say, isn't it, to sit back and reflect on the graft and actually be proud of yourself and say, you know what, I really did put the work in. So to be able to appreciate and celebrate the accolades that come later. But knowing that you did it from the ground up, you own that success and that career and where you found yourself.

That is definitely an inspiring thing. Right, well, as I speak to you, I'm actually losing the light. I've been sat on the balcony this whole time and it's just quite weird, isn't it, when you go away somewhere and it's obviously starting to get quite odd to me when thinking about, dare I say it, Christmas. Over here it's just all summer vibes. I mean, I was swimming in the sea, they were playing like Ace of Bays and stuff like that and I was thinking, yeah, maybe this is my 17 hour little holiday.

Except for the bit where I got to sing, of course. Not that that's not fun. But yeah, actually, as I'm talking to you, I can see the bride and groom. Oh, they're about to... Maybe it's not the bride and groom. It's the bride and her dad. That's so funny. Basically, the hotel I'm at is definitely having a wedding. I thought it and now I've had it confirmed. I can see the bride walking down. She's walking through to sort of festoon-lit little garden. I think you're gonna start hearing some cheering

in a minute, they're about to round the corner. I think what it is, this is the bride and groom coming to have their dinner with all their guests. Can you hear it though? They're playing the wedding march. That is not where I'm singing, but maybe I'll go and offer my services anyway. Congratulations to the bride and groom. They'll be like, who on earth are you? All right, right, better get ready. Lovely to have you with me for another week. Come back

again soon please. There's lots more where that came from. Some really exciting, lovely conversations I've been recording for you and wherever you're up to this week, have a good one and I'll see you soon. All right, that's love. Bye. We get it. Life gets busy. Luckily with Palatine Tread, you can still get the challenging workouts you crave.

Only have 10 minutes? Take a quick Peloton workout. Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45 minute tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Peloton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push. Find your power. Palaton. Visit OnePalaton.ca.