Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 141: Pixie Lott

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Singer Pixie Lott has had a ’crazy, happy time’ this past year: having a baby, bringing out a new album ‘Encino’, and moving into a family home near her mum, dad and siblings. We talked about how we both started in the music industry when we were teenagers and realised we share the same work ethic of ‘just keep turning up’. We also discussed the joy and the worry that comes when we say no to a gig, and how we look after our singing voices. Let’s just say, Pixie does it a lot better than me! Pixie's new album, the first for 10 years, touches on the themes of love, family, mental health, nostalgia and also meditation. Meditation is something Pixie discovered when going through a tough time, and found very helpful. To this day she still practises it whenever she can.When Pixie came to my house to record this chat, her mum Beverley came too, to look after her gorgeous little one year old Bertie. And while we talked, two of my (rather bigger) sons demonstrated their wrestling techniques for him… ha ha! …sorry about that Pixie! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis-Bexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates Well, hello to you and I'm gonna say happy new year Even though we are a week into 2025 because I normally say happy new year to people for about a month

I just like it. I feel like it's a nice way to start conversation. So I'll say it to you and I feel like it's okay. It's socially acceptable because we're barely into double figures of January anyway. So how was your Christmas? How was your new year? I hope it was nice. Ours was actually really lovely. I finished work on the 17th of December, having had one of the craziest years of my entire life in terms of my work. Loads of adventures, loads of cool stuff, but also just a feeling of like galloping somewhat. But what a way we finished, we sort of broke up with one of the biggest things I've done in my career, I think,

which was being given the opportunity, and I would say honour, of hosting a New Year's Eve disco on BBC. So we had to put together an hour of music, either side of Big Ben's DONGs and the fireworks on BBC One. He's still on iPlayer if you fancy having a look. I am proud of it. I'm proud of everybody that was involved. It was a brilliant team of folk musicians, guests, everybody at the BBC from the lighting design through to the set design, the director, producer.

They were so supportive and enthusiastic and excited about what we were doing so that allowed Richard and I the space just to really fly so we tried to just create like I don't know the ultimate party set I suppose some of my songs some covers I had Jessie wear come and sing a song with me we did Yes I Can Boogie together which was glorious Jake Shears when Sis Sisters came out and sang. I've loved Jake for years. They're both people I call my friends.

They both brought enthusiasm and talent which is exactly what you want up there with you. I had some wicked outfits. Yeah, I just loved it. My stylist Victoria worked overtime sticking jewels on stuff. But mostly I think all these things just meant that I felt really relaxed and happy and the crowd were great. We had a mixture of people who'd got their tickets through Radio 2

to some Brit school kids as well. Richard went to Brit school so one of our boys did too and also a few friends and family. It just felt really special. Then I had Christmas, very sleepy, very family, lots of not really going out and eating and that kind of thing. And then went to New York every New Year for the sing and dance floor in Times Square on this TV show called Rockin' New Year's Eve which has been running since 1972. It used to be called Dick Clark's Rockin' New Year. Now it's Dick Clark's Rockin' New Year with Ryan Seacrest and that was really fun. I Rockin' New Year. Now it's Dick Clark's Rockin' New Year with Ryan Seacrest.

And that was really fun. I mean, I love New York anyway. It's the first place in America that really excited me when I went when I was 11. And I've been lucky enough to go back there a few times at sort of quite formative parts of my life. So I have lots of memories when I walk around the streets. And it was just, yeah, a really fun way to finish a year and since then it's been just

sleepy time there's been a birthday, Mickey's just turned six, I really need to update my intro to the podcast, I'll put that on my list of things to do for January and yeah I've just been focusing on finishing the album. Yeah it's been a little bit of taking stock and lots of sorting out the house and nonsense like that really and seeing friends, making plans to see people. Anyway, this week, the first episode back of the new series, series 15, it's been going for nearly five years, you know, and my guest this week is Pixie Watt, which was lovely to sit down is Pixie Watt which was lovely to sit down with Pixie. Pixie and I have been running into each other over the years at

lots and lots of different things and she's always been completely lovely her and her husband Oliver and they now have a little Bubba. Oh golly gosh is the bath run? Oh wow you got in well done Mickey is it warm? No no it's fine. No no it's not too much. Right I'll get myself ready I'll be there in a second. I'm gonna have a bath with Mickey. He has another bath for a couple of days and this is the only way I could bribe him is if I get into. I don't actually mind. It's a really proper bubble bath we've run. Yes Pixie has got a little boy called Albert, aka Bertie, who turned one in October of 2024. Or was it September? I think Pixie and I got ourselves in a muddle about that. I think it might have been September actually. Anyway, he's one.

Pixie and Oliver have been together since 2010, so a long time. But it always makes me curious because Richard and I had complete flip of that we got together and then had a bubba quite quick but Pixie and Oliver were together for well over a decade before they had a baby so I wondered about that shift but also creatively Pixie just released her fourth album which was the first album she brought out in a decade so that's significant isn isn't it? That takes a lot to kind of find yourself in the right spot to make the album you want to make.

And I could see she was radiating that positivity you get when you made the record you wanted to make, which is a lovely thing. The album's called Uncino. It's lovely. Pixie's got a great voice, and she worked with some really lovely people. And yeah, we had a really good chat.

You know how much I love talking to singers. It's my soft spot. There might be another couple coming up in this series actually. But yes, thank you to her. And it's good to be back with the podcast. And thank you so much. I've had so many brilliant suggestions coming in from you,

which I really appreciate. And I've been doing some investigating. I've got some lovely, lovely women coming up for you. So yeah, good to be back. Nice to be with you all. Nice to be a little bit quieter so I can actually bed in and hopefully keep up with myself this year with the podcast. I managed it last year but I did sometimes feel like I was like, oh golly gosh, I've got one episode recorded for next week and then after that I haven't got anybody and just running around a little bit where I was hopefully this time I can just be a little bit more measured and a bit more organized. I'm just simply not traveling as much. At the moment my next

significant trip isn't until May when I've got a UK tour. There's odds and sods in between now and then but nothing like what I did last year. I mean look, I loved the energy of last year but I've got to tell you, I'm loving being at home and I've got myself full into organizing mode. I've been doing drawers and cupboards in the kitchen today. I even went through all my belts the other day. Like, I'm talking about nitty gritty here, guys. And for whatever reason, I'm in the right frame of mind

to actually get rid of stuff. So if I haven't used it for a while, if it doesn't fit me, if it's not working, it is gone. So my local charity shop, prepare yourselves for a donation, it's coming your way. Anyway, right, I'm going to hop in the bathroom mickey while we're listening back to my chat with Pixie. This was recorded not too long before Christmas actually in November. And thank you so much, lovely to have you back. Thanks for lending me your ears. See you on the other side. So, Pixie, before we start recording, we were trying to remember when we last saw each other.

And I do have a very vivid memory of seeing you last summer in Solihull for a festival that was I think billed as like Summerfest or something like that. Which we're laughing about because it was absolutely pouring with rain. And I'm guessing so that must have been something like, I think it was quite late on in the season like August, I think you weren't very far off having your son basically. You're definitely pregnant. Yeah. Because did you have him in, is it like October?

Yeah, September. September. End of September. I don't know what to think about that. 28th of September is his birthday. Well, he's only had one of them, don't worry. More in the muscle memory. Yeah, so I think this must have been August.

So yeah, I think you were sort of, you know, single weeks. Yes. So how were you feeling about everything at that point? Yeah, so I think this must have been August, so yeah, I think you were sort of, you know, single weeks. Yes. So how were you feeling about everything at that point? And it looked like you were working quite up to when you had him. Yeah, I feel like I did. And I'm just trying to go back to that time, because it kind of feels like a little bit of a blur really, like around that time.

Well, I might be able to jog your memory a little bit, because I remember that you sang a song on stage, just you and an acoustic guitar and it was a song that you'd written to your sort of unborn child and it was really new and you hadn't done it maybe before or many places before. Was it not band kind of festival? You had your band with you but for that song you did it just, it was beautiful actually. Oh thank you Sophie. It was really, really lovely and that's why I remember it so well but it was you I think

it was so new that you were like I'm just gonna do this song. Yeah. Sort of stripped back. Yes I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah I don't think I've really played that song since then because it was all about expecting like just before you have a baby so it was was just for that time of my life. But I think I was just really super excited for what was to come. And also, I was loving still doing shows up until the point because I still had quite a lot of energy. I didn't carry like hugely, so I felt like I could still move around fine, luckily, even

though I was two weeks overdue, so I had to be induced in the end. But yeah, I was still kind of like doing stuff right up until the end really. And I guess, because your mum is here just like the other side of the door with Bertie. Yeah. And I was chatting to her a little bit and she said that your brother and your sister both have children as well. Yeah. So your sister had the first grandbaby, I guess, is that right?

Yes, exactly. So I think once you've seen a sibling go through it, it kind of probably gets you thinking a little bit more about what it might look like when you're having a baby and being around a newborn and a little one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So my sister had had her baby Amelia, she is nine months older than Bertie. And then my brother had his baby Charles two months after Bertie. So they are all really close in age. And yeah, we're just all in baby mode at the moment and my mum is absolutely loving it.

She's been asking us for grandkids for like years and years and years and years. It was like a bus. Yeah, and now we're all here. And now we're all here. Exactly. So it's definitely a full on time because she helps us all loads. So she's very busy, but she loves it. Yeah, I can see that from her.

She seems really happy and she obviously walked in carrying Bertie in it was all very sweet. I suppose it's quite hard sometimes to know what shape it's going to look like when you're working and you've got your baby but from my point of view outside looking at it it looks like you've been really flourishing in this chapter of your life actually. I don't mean necessarily just about motherhood but also creatively within your music. Oh, thank you. How have you been finding it?

Because at what point did you start? I know you've been working on your record for about five years. But at what point did you turn your attention back to it after you'd heard Bertie? I guess, to be honest, all of the writing for the record was done before Bertie came. And then... And all the recording as well? Yes, I think most of the recording was pretty much done. And I knew that it would be life changing, because everyone tells you that. But I think I underestimated how much the impact would be, I guess, I kind of thought, oh yeah,

like I'll have my baby and then I'll still be doing all the same stuff at the same time, like straight away. But I didn't feel like I wanted to do that straight away. We're definitely doing that now. And I think I started doing, what was my, I can't remember what my first, oh my first show I think was like around Christmas when he was born in like late September, so maybe a few months in and he came with me to Liverpool. And then, yeah kind of eased in the following year.

But I think your brain just changes completely, or your mind does, I think, when you have a baby. And so obviously all your priorities shift and your perspectives shift. And I was really excited about putting the album out because we'd worked for so long on it. And it had been so long since I'd put out new music. And I felt like it'd been so long since I'd put out new music.

And I felt like it had been just such a, I hadn't put an album out in 10 years, and I really wanted to put music out, but I felt like, I don't know, there's just always reasons and stops and starts and this for that reason, whatever. So I did really want to get it out, but I feel like, and I was eager, but I feel like now

the timing of how it's happened now looking back I think it was meant to be that time. Because it's still, when did it, it came out in, not that long ago, like a couple of months ago I think. Yeah. I have in my head September actually. Yeah, it is September. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So it came out when Bertie was one.

And yeah, now I feel like that was the right time. Yeah. It's interesting how life can do that because presumably when you started the project, you know, that's well before you're maybe knowing exactly when that would happen. Yeah. And actually, it's nice to hear that because I think sometimes when you're making an album, I've always felt like making an album is a bit like writing a diary entry. It's kind of very much like all the things and thoughts and feelings you've got at that

time in your life. And even if you're not really aware you're doing it, you can look back on it and go, whoa, that song is so nakedly, that motion I had then. But obviously, if you write all that and it's recorded, and then you have this seismic shift with becoming a mother, but then to sort of go incorporate it, I wonder if some of the songs took on almost like a new meaning that you didn't realize was there, but it suddenly becomes unveiled once you're where you're at now. Yeah, definitely.

I feel like, yeah, I just sing them from a different perspective now and related to just where my life is at the moment. And I love doing that, especially when you're doing shows a lot, and you know this, doing shows all the time, you can easily just get out there and sing them. But if I put into the performance how I'm feeling feeling on that day it's completely different every single time which I love I love doing that. Yeah I think it keeps you feeling like very stimulated. Yeah definitely. And I think also when you find yourself in the you know especially the new phrase of raising a small person having that space to go on stage and being in that moment and having to put everything

to one side of that moment. I've always found that quite helpful. Yeah, definitely. For giving me a bit of my sense of self back. Yeah. Because sometimes it can get a little bit lost in the mix of all the new things that are going on. Yeah, 100%.

Was that, how, did you kind of go back to shows and music after having your first baby or any of your mother's? I got better at it. Because I think by the time I had my last baby, Mickey, he's five now, I felt quite like a little bit more confident about my own pace and my own abilities. But when I had my first baby, actually I was in the middle of writing an album and it took me ages. I wrote for a long time after having him. And I think, I felt like I,

I feel like pop music and motherhood are easier bedfellows now. Whereas at that time I felt like the subtext was, oh, if you're going to have a child, then you're probably not really going to be doing pop. How are those two things going to stay relevant to you? Did you find that a lot at that time? Yeah, I really did.

How long ago was that? That was ages ago, 20 years. 20 years, well, this is 20 now. Oh, wow. So 2004. And I found clippings, like newspaper articles. During lockdown, I went and wrote an autobiography, so I was sort of opening all these dusty folders in my head

and sometimes literally, bits and bobs to jog my memory. And it was a feeling I had, but going back through the cuttings, I found that some of it was literally in black and white. So there'd be lots of things like, there was a picture of me performing at GAY and I think I was about six months pregnant and it said something like, well she better enjoy this while it lasts because soon it'll just be changing nappies and that'll be what's happening.

And I just thought, oh my God, everything's going to leave. That's it. And what does it look like to sing and make the music I make if I'm no longer that early twenties girl that's not there anymore? But I don't know if everybody feels a bit like that or if it was a little bit of the time. I think we've got a lot of role models now for how to court motherhood and talk about it and feel like you're allowed to feel like yourself within it.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, take on this kind of The pedestal of motherhood that you felt you had to suddenly step into something and those aspects yourself you had to put away a little bit Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine like 20 years ago. Like you said now we definitely have you know people like Rihanna and like Loads of amazing women, you, like, doing everything and having loads, you've got loads of babies now, haven't you? All at the same time. And I think it's really inspiring for me to see that. And I think when I was, like, pregnant and seeing you guys all do it, I was like, yeah, very inspiring for me.

I was like, okay, well, you can do that, you can do it at the same time. But I think I still had comments along the way like that, even this day and age. That's annoying, because I was hoping, because I had people that I looked up to. I remember seeing Nanna Cherry, you know, performing on top of the Pops Road pregnant, and then she had her newborn baby in the video for Man Child and people like Madonna, Annie Lennox, incredible cool artists who I knew also happened to be mums but wasn't necessarily as front and centre as someone like Nanna Cherry but I knew that was what was going on behind the

scenes but I was really hoping that maybe it would be a bit smoother now. I think it is definitely smoother than it would have been like 20 years ago but I think there's still a little bit still there. So what kind of thing did you pick up on? You would just have to put it all, that bit of your life was over and a new thing was going to start and you weren't thinking of still continuing like you that kind of thing. Yeah I think that kind of stuff I'm trying to think of like specific examples. Sometimes it can just be quite subtle things. Yeah very subtle but sometimes like loads of

people obviously really supportive and like very positive about it but I guess it's just like yeah little things along the way. I remember telling someone who was like working on the record, and I hadn't even said, and they were like, oh, you're not going to say you're pregnant, are you? And I was like, actually I am. And I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, wow. Okay. Yeah, but that's fine.

It's just passing comments. But I think it's definitely better than it would have been. I bet they regret that now. That's like the ultimate cringe moment. Oh crap, they bloody are. I think sometimes as well, I don't know if you would find this, but to be honest with me, it wasn't big things. And I think this could happen, by the way, to anybody in any walk of life.

I don't think it's specific to our line of work. But I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's't big things and I think this could happen by the way to anybody in any walk of life. I don't think it's specific to our line of work, but if I'd be out with Richard, I feel like people wouldn't ask me that much about what my plans were or what I was up to because they would assume that, well, I kind of know what you're up to. You're just at home looking after the baby. And I found that I had to, I'm not someone that's very good at like shouting about things I get up to, but I would feel small as a result of nobody being particularly interested in asking me. Yeah, what that happened after you had...

Yeah, probably like the first two, I think, just feeling like people wouldn't bother to say how's the music going? Because they would just assume that wasn't really a thing anymore. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, and it made me feel a bit invisible, I think. Yeah, that's not nice. It is such a funny one, isn't it? I do think it's got better, but it's still a thing. I think so, but then having said that, I think if you'd worked on an album

that really means so much to you, and I can see when you've been performing your new album and your new songs, there's this, I've really recognized that look of how much it means to you. And the focus and the way, it's like you're alive in all yourselves, because it's this project

that you've obviously poured so much into. Thank you, Sophie. Yeah, no, it's true though. It's really palpable and it's like you're alive and all yourselves because it's this project you've obviously poured so much into. Thank you, Sophie. No, it's true though. It's really palpable and it's lovely and I think I wonder if you know it would be understandable if you think well I definitely always want to have a baby but my timing is quite funny because if you've worked on something for years like that, you know that's a project you've also want to give space to as well. Yeah. Did you feel like you had put under, I don't want to say pressure, but an expectation of not even from anybody else but just to kind of keep that momentum going with that project. Or did it feel more natural than that? I guess. I mean it is funny timing because

it felt like we'd worked forever on the record and then... And it was quite a small group of people was it that you were working with? Yeah, exactly. So we'd kind of given loads of time and put a lot into it and then it just felt like everything was all happening at the same time. Obviously having Bertie releasing the record, also like I just told you, we've moved house. I'd been looking at this specific house for six years and we kept on trying and like, and nothing was working and it just didn't work. And then all of a sudden that came through

at the same time as well. So it's like all these kind of like big life changes all happening at the same time. And it's weird, like you can never plan these things. You can try, I've tried, I definitely tried, but it just never worked out that way. And then it just all seemed to happen at once. But yeah, that's just life, isn't it?

You just have to go with it. And yeah, they're all things that all have meant loads to me. So it's been a really like crazy time, but really happy time for me, just that all these things have actually come to fruition. I've been able to put the music out we've been working on. And also like now when I'm doing shows, I was just singing my old stuff for so long. It's so nice to be singing new songs. Having new toys to play with. Having new toys to play with.

Having new toys to play with. I love your new song, Sophie. Oh, thank you. Absolutely love it. Such a tune. Thanks. So, yeah, to be having that, having Bertie along on the road

and like joining in on the adventures and now finally moving into a family home near my family is really lovely. Enjoying it. Yeah, because I mean, obviously people talk a lot about how the challenges that come with having a new baby, whether it's your first or not, I think it just, it carries with it a lot of things that demands on your time,

but there's also, I think, some stuff that's really brilliant and can sometimes feel really empowering. And I suppose, I don't know if you would relate to it, but once I'd had Sunny, my eldest, I felt like a lot of the worry that I used to have as a sort of, I don't know, I suppose the critic in my head, it fell away a little bit because so long as everything was okay with me, my baby, and Richard, the three of us,

the strength of that unit, it actually gave me like a big base of like, it actually felt quite powerful. And particularly once I got into my 30s as well, I underestimated how much more confident I would feel about the choices I was making, layering up the experience. I mean, you've been doing what you do since you were, I don't know how young you were when you started as a teenager. How have you found accumulating all of that experience? Yeah I think I totally relate to that with like having that strong unit and like no matter what can happen now like in the day with like you know just being

in this crazy business and like anything that can happen. Like as you know when you're all together you're all at home and you're all together, you're all at home, and you're all safe, and that is the most important thing, isn't it, and it just makes everything, like I can hear Bertie laugh, and it just makes everything go away, and everything's fine. So to have that is really, feels really powerful, like you said, definitely.

But for being in the industry for a long time, and just like, being in the industry for a long time and just like being in the highs and lows and just the craziness of it, I feel like I've learned so, so, so much and I wouldn't change it for the world. Even though I keep saying it's crazy, I love being in this job. It's still my most favourite thing in the world, apart from Bertie. But yeah, I kind of just feel like it's just in my DNA and in my bones now. And I feel like, yeah, I've just learnt so much. And I do know a lot of, And I do know a lot of...

Obviously, I know my career the most out of anyone in the world, and I know how it's felt to be in these situations. And I feel like I've kind of... I don't know how to explain it. This is weird, like, saying this out loud, but but I think I've just always kind of shown up, if you know what I mean. And I feel like that's all you have to really do in this business, like keep working hard, keep showing up.

And I always give everything to what I'm doing. I try to at least, and that's kind of like all I've done and got me to where I am today and I think that's what I'll just continue to do. I don't really know anything else either because I've done it for so long. Well I think that's, I actually totally get that, I also think it's interesting because when you're working with the music sometimes that thing of, as you said, that sort of showing up and being professional and applying yourself, sometimes when you

start out, I would feel like I was maybe a bit uncool because I was doing that, but then actually it comes back to help you because actually nobody's career is a straight upward trajectory of success after success. It's maybe like under 1%, I don't know, that managed to get away with that. But if everybody else, the wiggly lines, it's the bit where everything's on the downturn, that it really helps you if you've always been like that. You're reliable, you get on with it, you approach things with a smile on your face, like, let's get this done, because then people will keep working with you.

That's true. If you're not like that, when you're on the bit where there's the down bit, no one's taking a smile on your face, like, let's get this done. Because then people will keep working with you. If you're not like that, when you're on the bit where there's the down bit, no one's taking the call, no one's giving you a favor and helping you out. You can't rely on any of that stuff. That's so true. And I think as well, there's kind of like something to like enjoy about the kind of the process and the journey

and like the kind of, the thing that excites me the most about this business is that it's very unpredictable, so kind of anything's possible, I still feel like. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I thrive on that. Yeah, which I think keeps me going. And to always kind of not forget that. Yeah, and it feeds the optimist, doesn't it? Yeah. What does today hold? Yeah exactly you know you could just like get a phone call and just have an unexpected kind of I don't know an unexpected gig or experience. That's so funny I've literally used the same phrase myself about that like I get a phone call an email everything just turns and

I find that really addictive. Yeah it is though isn, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And I think also when I started out, I wasn't quite as young as you, but well, actually I did sign my first deal when I was still in my teens. Yeah, you were young. And then when I was doing my solo stuff, it's so hard to... I think you're quite encouraged to be quite down on things,

like, oh, you must be so tired. Oh, you know, are you not worried that you didn't get that job, oh you know, you must be finding this a slog. I don't know, I felt like the emphasis was always on the negative and being a bit moany about it. Yeah. But then I was always quite like, enid blighton about it, like actually I think it's quite good that I get these opportunities because it's much better to do a long day with loads of interviews where you're repeating yourself a bit than a day where no one wants to speak

to you about anything. That's so true, yeah. So I think once you get a bit older, your reference points for what feeds your soul gets a little bit more, there's a bit more clarity to it, so I think maybe that bit where I'd be like, I need these songs to be on this playlist or happening here. Now I'm just like, if someone's booked me or someone turns up to the gig, I'm like, thank you. I don't mean to sound over grateful, but it's just, I recognise that, I suppose I'm quite a simple soul, it sort of feeds me enough.

Yeah, no, I'm totally with you on that. And I feel like if you love, I don't think you should be in this business if you don't love music and love it because there's just so much that goes into it. I feel like you have to. So I really do love it. I enjoy it. I enjoy it still so much and that's why I still want to show up every day and just like give it everything. But as well, going back to the kind of like being in the business for a long time and now being older and having learned stuff and being a mum, it's also given me perspective as in like to not do the things that don't feed yourself. Because there are some great opportunities out there. It doesn't mean you have to, I think the power of saying no, now I've learned more and realized like, no, I don't want to do that actually. Yeah, that's such a glorious thing.

Like if it's not right for the music or it's not right, it's not... Like I love music, I love the live, I love the same as you, I love that side of it. And if it's something that is away from that or just doesn't align with what I want to do, I don't want to do it anymore. I definitely have done that in the past. And being young and starting out, I've definitely done that. And I just don't want to do that anymore. God, that's so... again, before you say that, I was about to say, oh, the power of saying no.

It's like one of life's... It's hard, though. It is hard. Well, especially because, I mean, I had a gig that got offered this week, actually. I've just been away for a month, and before I went away, I got offered a gig, which would have meant a night away this week.

And I turned it down. I turned it down because I thought, I want to be at home with my kids. But honestly, I was wracked with guilt. It's rattled around in my head since I said no, because I'm like, but what does it mean to say no? Am I like taunting the fate? Like, well then no one's going to ask you.

So I think sometimes you do feel like, ah, who do I think I am? You know, because you get so hardwired to accept jobs and want to keep working. But like you said, if it's not quite right for you. But then when you're talking, I'm thinking, so what was the bit, why were you not starting this record sooner? What was stopping you in the five years? You mean putting it out of tuna?

Or writing it, getting started with it? Because you did two albums very close together. Yes. And then you had a pause. And I know sometimes there can be changes with people you're working with, things like that. Yeah. I've had lots of changes in that kind of world. But what happened was, oh yeah, I was kind of, I was doing more like dance music and like features. And then I started this as just like a thing

for myself on the side, not as something that I was gonna necessarily put out or... So when you started it, what was the starting point? What was the thing that you weren't sure you were gonna put out? Just like, who you were working with or the style of music? Well, how did I start to make the album? What was it giving you at the time? It was... so I was doing dance music and then some writers I'd worked with. I knew I wanted to make this kind of style album, always. And there was a couple of writers I'd worked with who also were like, you should definitely

do this and kind of believed in it as well. And then I was like, yeah, let's do a session. And then we just started it. That was very organic kind of thing. It was very like, okay, let's do a session. And then we just started it. That was very organic kind of thing. It was very like, okay, let's do it for fun. And then I was like, oh, I really like this. And then I had to make a conscious effort to leave what I was doing in order to continue this

and do this record, which also was hard because I felt like it was a bit of a risk because it was something that was there and it was an opportunity that I'd kind of been given and I would always, I don't know, feel safer to stay in that situation. But then I just got to a point where I was like, if I don't do this, I just will never do it. So I kind of- That sounds exciting. So did you make the whole album

with quite a small group of people? Yeah, and I didn't have any team or management or anything, and got kind of a team on board after we'd finished the majority of the album. That's actually a really big deal. I think that that's probably, nobody might understand how significant that is to do it like that because it's so common to make projects, especially when you've done the pop route as a starting point where all decisions

are made by committee. Yeah. Doing something without that. Yeah. It's probably, I think that's really significant. Oh, thanks Sophie. It was quite scary at the time, I remember thinking. Oh, thanks Sophie. It was quite scary at the time, I remember thinking. And you know, you're investing a lot into it. But it also felt amazing just to be in the studio and not like and just write whatever I wanted to write and not be trying to make a song that sounds like this or trying to like, you know, go in a direction that someone thinks I should go down. Or it was literally literally just like what do I want to write about today what am I going to just felt even it was scary in that way it felt great being in the studio so I just kind of went off that.

And what's the worst that can happen anyway you're just letting your instincts run right aren't you? Exactly. So what about the creative team for things like art work and videos and stuff are they people you worked with before or was it all something that was very specific to this project? Yeah, so after we kind of finished the album musically, just the actual recording and the sound, then I started working with a management team and a label. And then that's where we started doing like the more visual stuff. You know, just like the artwork. And did you already know what you how you wanted it all to look?

Yeah, I had an idea. And the lady who I shot the artwork with Nicole Nodland I love and I'd shot with her like 15 years ago or something crazy and so I just reached out to her and she was up for it. Have you worked with her before by the way? I haven't but no I was looking at your album cover and I was thinking You guys would work great together she's really good And good with women but it's always a nice feeling Yeah Do you feel very safe?

Yeah definitely Because I know you've you know this is black and white image and you're just it just looks like you're giving a very like I don't know what's the word unflinching look but not it's soft and it's open but it still feels like the intention is there that this album is the more personal you can tell that just from the cover. Oh that's good. I think judging books by cover is completely acceptable. And albums. I love making album artwork. It's really fun.

Yeah. And it's got to sit at your stall, hasn't it? Like this is what lies within. Exactly, yeah, totally. Oh I'm pleased you think that. But yeah, we actually did the artwork like way before the album actually came out. And I'd cut all my hair off. And by the time it came out and I'd cut all my hair off and by the time

it came out it had kind of grown back. But yeah so we did the artwork and then the videos. I still love doing music videos and apparently they're not as important anymore these days. I was having this conversation with someone only yesterday and of course we now live in a world where if you do some daft bit of lip-syncing to your track somewhere unusual That might get more views in your video. Yeah But I still think that when you get excited about an artist or interested in them or intrigued you you don't get very many

pointers As to how they see their world and what you you know, the visual aspect that accompanies what they, you know, the sound. So I think when you get interested in artists and you look at their video, all the artwork, all these things, they're all like signposts of like, you know, the space you see it. So I think it's, I think they're still really valuable. Yeah, me too. And if you're an artist that likes making videos, like for fans or people who are intrigued, I think it's a perfect place to kind of get more context.

And the video you did for Somebody's Daughter is brilliant with all the dancing and the moving into different sections. Oh, thank you. And I was actually reading, I love reading lyrics without listening to the songs, so I was reading it yesterday. And I think it's really moving because it's basically saying, you know, don't make assumptions about something. You've got to remember people have got a vulnerable side and they have, there's a whole 360 to people beyond just talking about someone without giving it any depth or context. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. What other themes did you want to explore in your records? Did you want to explore in your records? So we kind of touch on all different topics really. There's obviously like love and family and mental health and nostalgia and... Oh yeah, blockbuster video. Yes, blockbuster video yes and also meditation I kind of like really got into that kind of just before the record and making the record whilst I was out in LA and it taught me a lot I learned loads from it and I feel like yeah there's definitely a few subjects on the album

that I learned from kind of getting into the meditation world, which is basically just being in the moment, and realizing that, just grounding, and that this whole album was just stripping back to my roots, and realizing that that was enough, and not having to force anything, just being yourself basically. That's what meditation is.

And so there's a few songs on the album that touch on that. So had you done anything with meditation in your life before you were making the record, or was it something you did directly get from being in LA? So I actually, I went in, I kind of found meditation because I was going through a really, really tough time and when I googled what to do, it kept coming up. It was like the number one thing to do. That was the, you know, a natural thing that you can do. I didn't know anything about it and I just, the

first thing I googled and then I got a taxi to the closest class when we were living in East London and I did it in this like, it was in a Buddhist temple place and I had no idea really what it was. You're not going to feel something like after just one session. That's like you have to sort of learn as well, I think. Well, Richard got, Richard didn't do it. And I know I watched him sort of doing the process. And he said at first it would take him ages just to stop thinking about other things

and being calm about thoughts that come and go and all these things. Yes, exactly. And then after a while, like it was like a muscle, like he could flex and now he can get into that space very quickly. Oh amazing. Is that something that happened to you as well? Yeah, I think, how did it kind of grow? I think just the more you do it, yeah, then

you kind of can just, but also there isn't really a way to do it wrong. Like I learnt that even people who have been doing it for a long time will have a day where they do it and millions of thoughts are going around their brain. But as long as you sit still for that session and then when the thoughts come you just let them go and it can keep happening the whole time and then sometimes it can be really clear. It's all still meditating. And have you been able to find that time for yourself since you had Bertie So I try to as much as I can You're meant to like, you know routinely do it every morning or every evening or whatever

But I just do it wherever I can at the moment That'll be interesting to see if it's something you can pass on to him a little bit actually I would be talking a lot more about that now don't we, especially even you know young kids. Yeah. About teaching them how to, basically what I've sort of been learning a little bit about and I'm probably gonna get the terminology wrong because I don't know as much as you but we spend so much time in our minds that we've given it such a huge priority. Whereas we're actually, as human beings,

that's not really necessarily how we would have expected to evolve. So, you know, in the past, you'd be just as reliant on what you see, hear, sense, all the other things that are firing all the time. And our mind and our thoughts have been given such big space and dominance that can allow you to get quite swallowed up in it as well, which might lead to anxiety or depression or any kind of spirals in that way because your mind, everything we do, we don't move around as much, we're not using other things to defend ourselves, to protect, to hunt, to forage, all the stuff that for centuries was the thing. So for kids, giving them the opportunity to give a bit of perspective to their thoughts

and their feelings, just to give it, yeah, a way to give it space and come back to here and now can be really beneficial. I think they should teach more of it in school actually. Definitely. I think that would be really, really great. Because yeah, if they're growing up kind of doing it, then it kind of gets ingrained, doesn't it? And then they can just have it as a life tool. Like if you can have it as like a little,

yeah, just literally a life tool that you can use if you're having a bit of a wobble or whatever or something doesn't go how you expected it to or whatever. It's just really handy to have, I think, in life. Definitely, and it can help regulate, but also it'll really help you because I think, in life. Definitely. And it can help regulate, but also it'll really help you because I think, especially when you're a new parent, you're told, you know, do this, do that. And if you don't do that, then later down the line, you might have these issues or that

issue or these big, you know, consequences. So if you can keep yourself in the here and now, it might take the pressure off a little bit about the fact that we're learning and things come and go and it's not always going to go right. Definitely. Yeah, that's for sure. And it sounds like you're very close to your family. You said you've moved near your mum now.

Yeah. So what are the aspects of your family life, your childhood that you'd like to pass on to Bertie? Yeah, just hopefully. We're a really close family so I'd love for our family that we're creating to be super close as well. We're still all like my sister and my brother, we all live really close to each other now and see each other all the time so I'd love and we love hanging out of our parents and I'd love for my kids to feel that way about us, that would be amazing. I hope my kids do too. That would be the ultimate. So offended if not. I know, we are broken. But yeah I would love to just basically take that kind of those family values with us along

the way. And yeah, they've always just kind of, we can completely be ourselves in front of each other and I guess like most families can but, you know, kind of just accepting each other no matter how crazy or like whatever's happened you know I always feel like I can go to my mum and dad which has helped me massively and they're so supportive of me like I think that's how as well especially starting out young like you have as well I think having a really close family has really helped me. It'd be interesting when Bertie gets older how you feel about it when he gets to the ages that you were when you started. Yeah. It looks a lot younger from this angle.

Yeah I bet. I can't believe you've got a 20 year old. That's crazy. It definitely shifts things. I feel like the last two years it's like the whole wheel kind of clunked into a new position because for a long time I felt like I had more young children than older. Yeah. And now I've got, you know, Kit and Sunny are both 15 and 20, Ray's coming up to 13. Wow. So it's like everything kind of clunked into like, oh, the balance is tipped now towards older kids.

What's been your favorite age of them so far? Aww. Or is that a really hard question? to let, oh, the balance is tipped now towards older kids. What's been your favourite age of them so far? Or is that a really hard question? No, I just think I'm actually better in the way of parenting them when they're older. I enjoy the small children bit, but I think I'm better at dealing with the nuances of the issues they might have about things when they're older. I like the talking things through. That's great.

I'm like my mom, I'm a big communicator. That's great. You know, I can have a very like full script if needs be. I like, I like to work out and problem solve when they're a bit bigger. Yeah. And I think, I think I've, my mum's always prioritised keeping us all open and chatting with her through the teenage bits and so I'm hoping I can

achieve that. That's really good. And I like the challenge of it a little bit. Yeah. Also it's nice when you can hang out together doing things. I sat last night with Kit watching those, some of that boy band documentary that's on. Oh I want to see that, that's meant to be really good. It is good but also I was like this this is quite cool actually, I mean, to watch it with my son. That's so cool. I think those moments I really enjoy are going to the cinema. Oh, I can't wait for that. Or in an art gallery and things like that.

That's so lovely. It is fun. What is the secret to doing everything, like having four boys and doing everything all at the same time. I need to know these things. I don't know if I've totally, like, I think in some ways, like, I was very enthusiastic about having lots and I feel like some days the enormity of how many children I'm raising had come to me after. It's like I didn't think all of it through. I'm not saying it's not what I want. I love it. I like the chaos, but sometimes you're like,

it's a lot because the admin and the control stuff that goes on and school things and all the decisions they're making become so much more significant and important. And they're worrying about things. When they're small, this is the school you're going to, we've organised this play date, do you want to go to that birthday party? That's kind of general stuff. When they're older, I don't know, what A-level. Do you want to go to that birthday party? That's kind of, you know, general stuff. When they're older, I don't know,

what A levels do you want to do? Have you thought about university? Don't worry about that grade. There's a way to get through to the next bit. All those things, they start worrying about their lives and you can't soothe it as smoothly. So I think sometimes that can feel quite overwhelming, particularly when I've been trying to also be on top of work things.

Yeah. But I think, I actually think one of the things that I've found a good bit of advice I give myself is just remembering that whilst you can feel as the mum like, you know, it's all on you, they've actually got loads of good people in their life. And I'm just one of the people they'll go to. They've obviously got, you know, Richard, they've got their dad, they've got grandparents, uncles, aunties, their mates, their mates' parents.

So I actually find that reassuring because I think you can put yourself under pressure to be all things to all people and be the only source of everything that they need. And actually, it's okay. They will ask someone else if you're in the middle of something. Particularly with having their brothers around them. You would probably have gone to your sibling sometimes Actually, it's okay. They will ask someone else if you're in the middle of something. Yeah, that's amazing.

Particularly with having their brothers around them. Yeah. You would probably have gone to your sibling sometimes. Yeah. And needed stuff. Yeah, definitely. So it does all kind of work out in the end, I think. Does it ever feel like, because you have a big family and you're so busy, does it feel

like there is a lot of chaos all going on? And has there ever been a time where it's been really quiet and you've been like, oh actually, I'm this. Where's the chaos, where's the drama? I definitely like the fact that things are always going on. I think it works for my brain. I think you've got to have a bit of that actually. It's fun. It is fun.

I like it and I like the fact that anything that I might find a bit nerve wracking that I've got in my professional life, it doesn't really count for that much here. I don't mean that they're not interested, well no, they're actually not that interested. But also, it just keeps the perspective and I think we've all got ways of dealing with, you know, the fact that when you do something you love, it means you can also give it like, ah, this is a do or die, and if I screw that up, it's going to be horrendous. And actually coming home and talking about what's been going on with them is a really great way to completely neutralize a lot of that stuff. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, that definitely helps me. We've all got things that can help. But I do find sometimes, actually I wonder how you find this, that I've been talking to a lot of singers about how they keep their voice in good, Nick. And so many of them say, rest. And that just doesn't really happen that much, does it? Yeah, that is- And you're singing with a baby waking in the night.

Yeah, that's definitely a challenge, I feel like, because as well, I, to kind of like do lots of shows, I always voice rest. That's the best thing for my voice, like the husky voice. It is the best. And it's, yeah, it's the thing that makes it kind of like- I'm husky too. Go back to non-husky vibes. Which is kind of really hard to do when you've got a baby.

I think it was easier when he was really small, but now he's not sleeping in the day. Like when they're newborn, they sleep a sleep a lot really don't they? Yeah. But now I don't voice rest and the sleeping's not as it was before. So yeah my like good old trick. I try and do it where I can but you just can't do it because they're the most important thing so my focus is like on him. But I still do the other tricks which is like just tons and tons of water. I mean I'm talking to you and I've got like the biggest coffee going which I also need at the moment. But yeah just tons and tons of water and I work with this really great vocal coach called Matt Shaw, and I try to do warm-ups before every show. Oh, that's good.

So we just call each other and have them on loudspeaker, and then we do the warm-up before I do the show. So that really helps. Oh, that is good. Also talking to someone's good because then you don't get self-conscious because you've got someone there who's like, this is what we're doing now. Yeah. Like how we train us, it's like, just go on with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's smart. What do you do? What's your tips? Don't ask me. I'm not your person. I'm so like, I'm so bad. What do you do like when you're, have you had it where

you've got a show and you know you're like super tired or you've got a cold or do you just like just power through it? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I do. Yeah it's not always that's not ideal it's not ideal but touch wood wherever there is some floor I haven't yet had it where I've had to cancel a gig just because of my voice yeah and I think I've stupidly have some sort of you know inverted pride that that's actually brilliant of me. Yeah. And then that's why I'll be like, it's vicariously thinking about it. I was exactly the same. It's almost something that's coming out if I make it right. It's hard. I don't recommend it. I got laryngitis earlier in the year and I just sort of pushed through these gigs and I'm just sorry for anyone that was there. I totally understand. It was horrible.

I get that. I did do a tour once where I got really bad, horrible, chesty, throaty thing. And I was like, what do I do? Yeah, this was a European tour, which as you know is like a lot of like, you know, there's loads of plans, there's loads of people. It's pricey. I'm like, oh God. And I just started the gig and I said, look, you can hear I'm not 100%, but I'm here,

you're here. Let's just have a good time. Yeah. And actually it was really good fun. And I think it's more like if you've got something to record, isn't it? Or a big telly or something. It's just always that fear. I think I'm always worried about it.

I don't think you ever lose that feeling that Is this the one where it just all goes wrong? Yeah, it's true because there's a difference between like a live show and then like a live TV recording That has a completely different vibe or a song that you know requires a bit more Sensitivity some things I've sung for ages I can kind of just like it's like muscle memory. It just kicks in. Doctor theatre as well. But if it's something that's new I can panic about it a little bit. But usually I find the adrenaline gets you through. Yeah definitely. I had one other question I wanted to ask you because you've been with your other half of Oliver for a

long time, right? Yeah, how long have you been together now? I think it will be I Think it will be I think 14 years I think it's going to be... why can't I do it? Is it every decade or something? Fourteen years. Fourteen years, okay cool. Yes, something like that. Happy anniversary for whenever it is.

What's it like when you've been with Summer for a long time and then you both become parents? How does it... how do you see each other? Do you see each other differently? I didn't have that, you see, we hadn't been going out very long when we had our first... How long had you guys? When Sunny was born we'd been together for eight months. No way! Wow! Oh my god that's amazing. Yeah, it was almost like mathematically not quite possible

because Sunny was born two months early. Ah! But I've always wondered what it's like when you've had, you've grown all those roots just the two of you and you've been able to do things that work for you in that way. And then suddenly there's this new person here but also you're looking at someone you've seen in one way for a really long time and then suddenly they're like, oh, we are, my baby's dad.

Yeah, no, it definitely like, Ollie's a great dad and he loves being a dad. So I feel it, yeah, I feel like it makes me, I mean I loved him so much anyway, but it's definitely kind of made it more because just having a child just does that doesn't it, kind of just like, just more love basically in your life. But I would say as well because we've been together for such a long time. It also feels like we've been through so much. So it feels like anything can kind of happen and hopefully we'd be able to handle it, if that makes sense,

because it's been such a long time and we've experienced so many different things together and kind of grown up together as well. I think that's really lovely. And I liked it when you said like more love. I totally get that. It's like those love, I totally get that. It's like those foundations become even more solid really. Yeah. And you're kind of on the, all the little petty things can drift away a little bit because you know you're all, you've got this new person. That's always there.

It's like literally like this embodiment of the two of you. It's really quite magical really. Yeah. It is, isn't it? It is magical having a baby. You kind of like can easily just think, you know, it's something that you do. But it's like it's the two of you together that's just grown this like little seed that's grown into a person that's got like fingers and toes. It's mad, really. But yeah, yeah, that's what I would, I would kind of sum it up in that way. How long have you guys been together? Now, we've been together 21 years. 21 years, wow. I see, I do have it easy because my eldest,

I just add a year to have a mom and my eldest boy. Yeah, it makes it easy. So that's the way I've done it. 21 years, though. But you all know it's always Bertie plus 13, or if you said you've been 14 years together. Yeah, that's true. So there you go. So next time, Bertie plus.

Yeah, now I remember. But that's it, you guys have kind years together. Yeah, that's true. So there you go. So next time. Yeah, now I remember. But that's it. You guys have kind of done it the other way around then. Yeah, we have. Did Baby first, and then how, what's the gap between your oldest and your next one? Five years actually. It took me a really long time to feel like I was even that bothered about having it.

I mean, I thought we would at some point probably, but I needed to get my head together. I was writing a new album. I just wasn't in any rush at all. Yeah. So yeah, I had Sonny at 25, Kit at 29, then Ray I think 32. I got a bit more routine after that, like three years between the next, all the next four. Had you planned them all? The last four, yes.

The first one, no. But I always say it's wanted baby, but no, I wasn't like, when to go to the six weeks, let's go baby. Was it six weeks? Yeah. Wow. But there was a bit of a pre- my mum had been with my stepdad for three months when they found out they were having my brother.

So I think for me I used that as a bit of a, you oh it'll be alright yeah well it definitely worked out it's been so nice to talk to you and I'm thinking if you want we could just sit in silence you both get some vocal rest I can see them playing on the floor next door it's actually really sweet thank you for bringing Bertie oh look they're showing him how they wrestle. That's great, wonderful. So cute. I hope that's okay. Oh my god he's probably loving it. The wrestling hit, he's just so clarified. He's an amongst it. Oh thank you Sophie, that was lovely. Congratulations on everything. Congratulations to you. Thanks. Here's to new music and new babies. Yes. Cheers.

How lovely is Pixie? And how nice to hear someone so feeling so satisfied with where they're at in life in terms of her family life but also creatively I could see it really yeah beaming off her which is a good thing I have a question for you actually dear listener do I need to be more more detailed in my description of my guests at the beginning I've realized because my producer Claire does brilliant notes which gets curated into the blurb which is written on my Instagram and also is on the blurb on the podcast episode list that gives you more sort of factual Context of my guests. Would you like if I did a bit more of that in the introduction?

I sometimes take for granted that you're going to have read it or that you might know the person if there's somebody in the public eye But am I being lazy? I listened to Alan Buckson's podcast the other day. Adam was of course the inspiration behind my rambling intro outro. No disrespect to Adam but I like the way he does his intros and outros as he walks around with his dog Rosie. I feel I have a similar take only mine as cats and kids and all that kind of stuff but he I listened to one of those days for the first time in a while and I remembered I was like oh he actually goes into more detail than I remembered about his guest maybe I need to do a bit of that just drop me a note drop me a line in the under the Instagram post if you think I

need to put more information in I'll take my lead from you you're in the driving seat with this one but thank you so much to Pixie for coming to talk to me. And actually it was really sweet because she brought over Bertie with her and her mum while we were chatting. So we were sat in my studio at home and through the glass door, through to our kitchen, we could see our babies playing. Hers is an actual baby, mine are any baby and name at this point. But they were all playing together and it was really sweet. Yeah, it's been really lovely lovely I'm happy to be back. More good guests coming your way thank you so

much thank you to Claire Jones for producing, thank you to Richard for editing, thank you to Ella May for doing the artwork. Also congratulations to Ella May who is now pregnant with her first baby. So hey Ella May make a space in your diary for being a guest at some point. Anyway, in the meantime, happy, happy 2025 to you. Whatever is going on in your world, I hope you're safe and well and feeling, I don't know, hopefully optimistic about the year ahead. I'm gonna be honest with you, I sometimes find New Year a bit tricky. It always makes me feel a bit low and there's aspects of the news that have not helped with that. However, there's been a nice couple of sunny days this

week and I've been looking through pictures of, I don't know, spring times and summers just to make me feel good about those days coming back and new buds on the trees again. So in the meantime let's get through the dark wintery days, there's good times on the horizon. Right, lots of love, gonna have a cup of tea and I'm gonna go and sort out Mickey after the bath. Alright, see you soon, see you next week, bye! I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie