Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 146: Princess Superstar

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Princess Superstar is an American rapper and DJ. She and I are ‘Saltburn sisters’ as we both had our songs featured in the film, which gave them their exciting resurgence of popularity last year.Princess Superstar has a 13 year old daughter, who she homeschooled till the age of 11, believing that mainstream school doesn't nurture a child's unique creativity.  She also shared with me how, after 10 successful years, she suffered with crippling writer's block in 2010. But she started writing again after she had her daughter and is just about to bring out a new mix tape called The Serve, with the first single Goddess coming out at the end of February. We agreed it should be included in my fantasy project Perimenopop!She talked to me about how she embarasses her daughter with her stage outfits sometimes. That's definitely another thing we Saltburn sisters have in common!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis-Bexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello to you. I speak to you from Sunday morning where I'm feeling a little bit weird.

I unexpectedly took four long-haul flights in the last two days, which I wasn't expecting. On Wednesday, I was asked, or Richard and I were asked, if we would DJ at a party in Bangkok on Friday night. And as it would happen, I was actually in Poland when I got this message, having finished a really incredible day with Save the Children, visiting lots of Ukrainian children who'd been displaced following the war in the Ukraine, and they found themselves now spending the last three years

in Warsaw in Poland. So I went to visit some of the things that were set up to help integrate them, but also give them some fun, give them some skills, give them a place to process their emotions. So I've done a music lesson and an art lesson with little ones and then in the afternoon I spent some time with teenagers and they were all incredible and Save the Children does really impress me. I've worked with them now for nearly 10 years and I love the way that

they operate with taking existing support and kind of tweaking it so that it can support what's going on the world reflect what's going on with kids in the here and now. It's clever stuff actually. Definitely makes a long-lasting impact in all those kids' lives especially the teenagers it was amazing hearing them talk. So we'd had this wonderful day I was coming home it'd been a long day but a really good one. And as I'm approaching the airport in Warsaw, I realized that in order to make, for Richard and I to make the Bangkok Friday night DJ set, we would have to leave the following evening unexpectedly. Two flights there, two flights back. But it was for White Lotus Series 3 cast party and a fancy hotel in Bangkok, four seasons, and we were like, actually I think we can just about do it. So we went for it and it was really fun.

And now I'm home again. I got home yesterday evening and just back into family life and I've got a really quiet, very family half-term, which I'm really thrilled about because that's where, that's where you kind of get recalibrated, isn't it? And it doesn't always, stars don't always align that I'm around for half-terms, so it's perfect. But anyway, yeah, I feel a little bamboozled having sat on many a plane. It was like enforced bed rest, as we just said, watching loads of movies and making some plans and working out things for the album and stuff like that. Anyway, blah, blah, blah. This week's guest, Princess Superstar.

Her real name is Concetta, which I think is a fabulous name. And we met, it's probably about a year ago actually, we were doing an event, a big clubby show at Drum Sheds. And I was performing and she was performing and we said a quick hello and had a quick kind of, isn't this incredible, about how Saltburn and the soundtrack had actually changed both of our lives. And for me what happened with Murder on Dancefloor was obviously really significant, but what happened with Princess Superstars 2007 hit Perfect and the resurgence that's had last

year thanks to the soundtrack feature and Saltburn. It's actually been even more significant because it's actually in her own words, it's given her back her career. She's clearly a musician through and through. She absolutely loves performing, loves creating, but you know, the twists and turns of her world had meant that she'd gone into other lines of work for a little while, which she touches on in the conversation, but it's music that she always came back to. And to have it happening with such momentum last year was so exciting to see. And

just performing all around the world again. And I think she has found a sort of renewed vitality through going back to doing what she loves and she's creating music that she feels even better about than anything she's ever done before. And case in point, her single is called Goddess. You can't get more empowered than that. And it's wonderful to see and I love chatting to her. And it's just so nice how our paths are crossed in such an unexpected but joyful way. So we recorded this just before the Grammys when Saltburn was up for best soundtrack. So we thought there was a tiny chance we might share a Grammy but it's fine, my tiny part of Grammy

would only get lost in my house anyway. But yeah, what an unexpected little adventure we both had. Lots of fun and I'll leave you with her. She's got a 13-year-old daughter that she is raising with her husband, who sounds incredibly supportive of what Concetta gets up to. And the daughter was homeschooled up to 11, which I found pretty fascinating in itself. So here's Princess Superstar and I having a good old chat about music and feeling empowered at this point in our careers, which we do happily say.

It's nice to see you. You too. So were you filming yesterday? Were you making your music video yesterday? Is that what you were making? No, that's like super old. I'm just like shelling for a supplement. I thought it. I was like, great. But I do have new music coming out finally, but yeah. Well, let's talk about that. So what were you up to at the moment?

So you've been working on some new stuff? Yeah, actually it's kind of been unbelievable. I've been recording all year long and working with amazing producers and honestly like the best, I feel like I'm making the best music of my whole career. I bet you feel that way too. I feel like I'm making the best music of my whole career. I bet you feel that way too. I actually do. It's given me such a lovely like pep in my step. I mean, we both share

a lot in common. Obviously we are salt burn siblings. I love that. Salt burn sisters. But also I think we're both kind of like looking, well firstly we love what we do very much. We were both already kind of match fit when our songs went viral last year. So we could hit the ground running with all the opportunities that presented, which I think is really significant because everybody's lucky enough to feel like that when the momentum picks up. Especially as a mom, especially as mothers.

Yes, very true actually. And also I think that we're both working out and evolving our lives where we're up to, the ages we are, in amongst the music we make and making the two things completely like make sense. And I love that. I love that about you. I love how you approach it. So why don't we start by talking about the music you're making? So when's the stuff coming? When can I hear things? Okay. Well, I'm really excited. I actually never, I haven't really unveiled it yet like I'm about to. So this is like an exclusive, a Sophie exclusive. So I'm putting together, I'm working on a mixtape and it's called The Serve and it's like all about like serving, you know, like glamour and everything but also like serving humanity. So it's like two

things in one and it's a mixtape. And the first song, the first single will be on February 28th on Downtown Records and it's called Goddess. And the chorus goes, I'm a fucking goddess. Perfect. That's my runtime sorted. Exactly. I love that. I'm working with really awesome producers. The guy that produced that, his name's Oscar Scheller. Well, actually, funnily enough, he's working with Mel C of the Spice Girls and Ashnikko, who's this really cool alternative girl who went platinum recently. And yeah, so I'm working with him and then some old school from like my era, like Laidback Luke.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And yeah, lots of other people too. So I'm really excited. It's going to be amazing. And were you already planning to make new music? Was that already like the place you were at? So the, I mean, I have a very like funny story. I mean, it's intense and funny

all at the same time. But like I had been making music already before Saltburn came out. It's just that nobody was listening to it. before Saltburn came out, it's just that nobody was listening to. I know you know, yes, which is why it's so sweet that we should have that success bestowed upon us by the universe. So yeah, so I was working on music, but then what happened was, Salford came along and with it, I sort of like upped an echelon or whatever and I had access through other people, specifically at Universal. I did a little publishing deal at Universal and then somebody there was like, oh right, you should work with this person, you should work with that person. And because I had already been working on music, I was ready to go into the studio and

work with that person. Because I don't know about you, but I had a time in my life where I was like, Oh my god, I lost all my success. I suck. I shouldn't be doing music anymore. And like, like crippling writer's block crippling. So I stopped doing music, you know, but I was like, I can't live like that. This is not who I am. So yeah, I started writing again, even though nobody was really listening. I wasn't successful. So when was that happening to you? When was your writer's block? So this was, okay, so I was like quite successful in touring and everything between 2000 and 2010.

And then it just sort of like, I don't, you know, looking back, I always try to pick it apart. I don't know why, but somehow my career just maybe it's like all you get is a decade, you know, like some people, you know, I don't know. And then I had then that's when I had my daughter too. So 2011 is when I had my daughter. And so it was like, all of a sudden, it was like around 2010, I lost my manager, my booking agent, and then like, it was really weird. Like I was like, what just happened? Like, I don't understand.

It was like a slow unfolding of losing your career. And then I had my daughter. So then I was like, okay, maybe I'll just be a mom. And but and then I would try to write and it just like it wouldn't like I just was like oh I lost my career. It was like that nagging ego voice that was like you suck, obviously. So why are you even trying to write? Can't write another perfect, you know, or bad babysitter. Those were just blokes, you know, like all that nasty self talk that human beings do, you know. Definitely. And I think, so some of that emotion was before you had your baby as well,

that you sort of started to lose your confidence in your ability and your craft. Was it sort of simultaneous? Because I think sometimes if you've been an artist that's been able to explore things and try on different hats and explore the adventurous adventurous. When you have a baby and try and imagine yourself back in that, especially with my first baby, I found it almost impossible. I was like, I don't really know how to inhabit that again. How do I find that part of me?

It took me years. It's so true, actually. Oh, I love, it's so fun to talk to you about this. Exactly, I was like, okay, I'm the crazy party girl, but like now I have a baby. Like, am I gonna be like rapping about, you know, dicks? And like, yeah. You know, like, what am I gonna be talking about?

And I actually did do, like, I actually have one record that's more, I would say my hippie record, you know? And it's like more spiritual and more sort of like grown up and I love that record. But I mean, it's so different from like, you know, anything else that I had gotten successful with. So I think it just sort of disappeared. Like it didn't really do anything.

Yeah, so it's funny you say that because I do grapple with that. I'm like, well, what, you know, and also, you know, your kids are going to listen to your music too. So it's a whole other thing. There's no freedom in that way either. Like there had been previously. Yeah, and I think you, I felt a bit like I had to sort of almost start again, a bit like this was a completely new chapter. So everything that went before was part of a world

I'd let go of. So everything had to kind of go from that point again. And I suppose it's partly the idea of your kids listening to it, but also just in terms of your own, the selfishness that you need to be able to sit in your own creativity and give yourself room for that. It suddenly felt like, it suddenly felt very indulgent that to be able to do that and much needed but hard to carve out.

And especially I suppose in the world of dance, that whole club culture, parenthood responsibility is very much not part of the narrative, is it? Sorry, I can head to the club. Gotta change a diaper. Change a diaper. Bitch, change a diaper. diapers. Yeah, actually, yeah. It's just not as carefree and sexy somehow. Even just getting on stage and thinking, how do I move? How does my body feel on stage? Am I dancing worse than before? Am I moving weirdly? All of it. I just felt very clunky, I think. It's kind of hard to sit and like that side of yourself sometimes. I love this so much. And also, like, the transition from just wearing, like, you know, yoga pants

and sneakers to, like, high heels. I was like, my feet are, like, not in shape for that. Exactly. Exactly. And I think, but look at you now. I mean, you now. You are now in the peak moment. Your song is called Goddess. This confidence, this new level unlocked, there's been so many evolutions that have happened since that version of you, but it's actually not so long, a decade, just over a decade. So what do you think happens to women, to artists as we get older that can bring that kind of feeling? Because I know what you mean. That's exactly what I was trying to bottle with my record as well. I was like, I want it to be confident and optimistic and embracing, but also completely indicative of where I'm at in life. I toyed with the idea of calling my album Perry Men a Pop, which I just thought would have...

Oh my God! I mean, it would have like really scared my label, but it would have really made me laugh. Please, please, you have to do an EP, do a mix tape or something. That's exactly what Richard that said he's like Yes, I project one day. Yeah, there you go. Yeah Yeah, and then and then I would love to be on that, you know, like are you tap? You know what I mean tap talent of our age Do you know like the press would go wild on that right like all the women's magazines and whatnot

You know because because yeah, it's like, what one thing that I love, and I think you totally captured that with your record, I think, like, the confidence, the joy, I see it all in you, and like that, you know, and I just, I just adore it. And I think, like, what's so wonderful about us is like, kind of like normalizing aging, making you know not not yeah I mean you know we're in such a youth culture but it's like how incredible that we get to be pop stars at our age like what it's amazing. I agree and I think I think that is obviously look music and youth culture have always been bedfellows that goes without saying but I think the way that music is

access now and all the subcultures of music can run alongside each other, I think a lot of the way it was sold to us about how everything had to be of a certain age, I think a lot of it is actually bollocks. I think actually it turns out that people can get something from music without needing it to be sung from someone who's in their 20s. I feel like a lot of that was maybe a bit of a myth that I was totally part of and agreed with at the time because when I was in my 20s, it was almost like the baton was kind of being taken out of my hands. But now that we have a much more democratic approach where people can vote

with their phones about just a soundtrack they want rather than what they're being, you know, just played on the radio all the time. I think it's got a little bit more of an open field, maybe. Yeah. To be making music at different stages in their life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what, like, I just saw like, Oh, who are these guys?

They're from England. They're like Pete and Bass or something. They're like old guys rapping and like, you know, it's true. We're so blessed right now to be in this like TikTok era because you're right. Like people are open to everything as long as it's like authentic and resonates with them. And I don't know about you, but like honestly, this year, you know, in any other craft, right? Like if you're like making wood tables, you'd be really good after putting in 25, 30 years of making wood tables. It's like, I feel like I'm making the best music of my career and it's now and it's all those years of experience, you know,

and things that I've done. And yeah. True. And so your daughter, she must be just a little bit older than my third boy, I think. So he's just about to turn 13. So she's going to be 14 this year, is that right? Yeah, she's going to be 14 in May. Okay, so she's still 13 in April. Yeah, same thing, very similar.

And so how do you find making music? And are you good at, when you go into the studio, can you kind of get back into the headspace of what you need for your, you get sort of compartmentalizing a little bit or taking advantage of that escape that writing can give you? Yeah, you know what it is, is I've been really like working on my craft for for a while and I you know as a mom you have limited time so it's like okay right like so I do like maximum four hour recording sessions like in the past you know we used to just be holed up in the studio for like 12 hours like on drugs. You know what I'm saying?

No, we don't do that anymore. We bring our iced coffee and our green smoothie and we go to the studio for four hours. And I just am like, I try to center myself, partner with the creative force and be like, right, I've got four fucking hours, let's go. I have, like, fill me with, you you know and sometimes I walk into the studio like dread Like I don't even know what to say anymore

I really I you know and like I get scared sometimes as I'm like or it's like a Big producer or somebody that like I'm like I like and then I'm like I have four hours to write something but Another cool thing is that because I never really stopped working except for like I took a couple years off for the writer's block, I have also sketches and things of songs that from back in the day that I never finished. So half the time I dust those off and because the era of music is so in fashion now, which is the 2000s, sort of what they call Indie Sleeves. We never called it that, but you know, like we called it Electro, Electro Clash, Disco Pong,

all that. But yeah, anyways, I have snippets. I have lots of stuff. So I just sort of like dust it off and kind of work on it or I'll write something new but yeah, I love it. There's a gratitude for going to the studio now You know, yeah get to work. So great I like the idea of the four-hour session four hours is pretty intense though Like that's that's a short amount of time for writing a song I guess you just give yourself over to it and you're like Boom, I'm gonna be give this is where I am at for this time and you can just go for it I wonder if there's a correlation when you said that you're writing the best music of

your career and that in the past you did 12 hour sessions on drugs and now they're not drugs anymore. There might be something in that that's helping as well. At the time it was like, this is amazing. Next day like, oh god, what's that? Yeah, it's like, what the fuck was that? Yeah, exactly. Oh my god.

It's so true. And interesting as well, I was thinking about, because when I started singing dance music, it was in the year 2000. So I think probably you and I are not so dissimilar in the timeline. And I was quite shocked at coming, because I started off in an indie band and, you know, women in indie was tough, but women in dance was like a whole other thing because you were very much kind of accessory.

This was like the era of the superstar DJ and female vocalists, whether they were on the songwriting credits or not, were kind of like this sort of like decoration that went on top of the main centerpiece was the DJ. It was all about that. And that's how I felt anyway. I would see these incredible women in the clubs with these amazing voices. And for them to sort of find their space as an artist in their own right was actually really quite tough to kind of carve that out.

And I wondered if the success that you're having now feels like a really extra empowering in that backdrop where sometimes you're not really given as much respect in that dance. Maybe it was different for you in the US, but in the UK I felt like as a female vocalist, you were kind of quite replaceable really. Well, I don't know if you know this story, but this is crazy. So Perfect came out in 2007 and it was on Ministry of Sound. Now I started out in hip hop, it's funny,

you started out in the indie rock. Way back I was in an indie rock band, but I broke through with hip-hop, Bad Babysitter in 2001, and it was in England that I was actually more famous than the U.F. Anyways... I remember it coming out. It's great. Yeah.

Yeah, I did Top of the Pops and everything. It was amazing. But then I moved into dance music because I was getting uninspired with hip-hop and all the rules and I liked how dance music could sort of expand and you could do different things. And just a more fun audience, frankly. Like I was, you know, it was a scary audience back then. Being a little girl in hip hop, you know.

But anyways, so I moved into dance music and then Ministry of Sound actually made a video for Perfect and did not put me in it, even though in my contract it said creative control. So talk about being disposable. They cast three models and they made like a sort of, because in that day it was like the call on me, Eric Pritz, satisfaction, just these like, sort of, because in that day, it was like the call on me, Eric Pritz, satisfaction,

just these like, you know, very colorful, whatever. And it was astonishing to me because I had already had a name with Bad Baby Sir. So, you know, I was like, what did you guys do? You guys made a video without me and didn't even show me the brief, nothing? Like it was so disgusting. And here's where it gets even worse.

They sent the three girls on tour, the three models as Princess Superstar to sing perfect. You are kidding me. No, totally illegal. That was ministria sound. And I heard that they did that to lots of women and people. Well, that's next level. So this is a UK based signing of the record, was it? This is what's

happening in Europe. Yeah. Because I mean, I was actually watching the video, I remembered it from back in the day anyway, but I was rewatching it and I was like, oh, it was so of that time. Yeah. I just presumed it was because it was having a moment in the clubs here and they needed to get something out quick and you were in the US and that's what they'd done. I had no idea that they'd done it as this sort of like a whole plan because to them, then they got to have their cake and eat it. They've got these three women they can send out to do the work. Thank you very much. Pay them in a way that's probably completely different to if they'd been an artist in their own right. Have it at their beck and call. It all was so part of that aesthetic at the time as well, wasn't it?

Of all, as you say, those other videos you've mentioned, Derek Pritz one and the satisfaction one where that's the one with the power drills and all that, isn't it? With that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was, it was so that era. I mean, on Collie, well done us for surviving. Cause that's, that's a lot of, um, that was a really bizarre episode really of like women in bikinis and bizarre episode really of like women in bikinis and a very, very specific remit of the look, you know, holidays, swimwear, models basically, you know, and that was very much what was happening with all those dance records. Yeah. How did they get away with it then if it was against the contract or did you just not have

the energy to fight it? Well, what happened was is that it premiered on a sort of newish channel called YouTube in 2007 and it immediately got millions of views. So my manager at the time was like, right, leave it because it's doing really well, but we'll send a cease and desist for the live touring part of it. So that was that. And then that worked. Okay, that's good.

But in the end, it did sort of like nail a coffin, I think, in my career. Whenever I search back of like, why did that happen? I think the branding was just fucked with. And we didn't really have, what did we have? We had MySpace, we didn't really have the tools. Like today, I'd be able to take to TikTok and be like, yo, this is my song, that's not me, or whatever, but we didn't have that back then really.

You had magazines. It's pretty astounding. And I'm sorry, and I hope, I hope your relationship with the song has remained pretty pure on despite that, because it is obviously a song that's been part of your life for such a long time now. Or maybe, maybe it meant that you had to rebuild a little bit when you found yourself having this resurgence. Because it does bring back all the memories, doesn't it? I know for me, it was like unlocking so much that I'd sort of not really thought about for years. People would say, what was it like singing in the studio when you did Murder? And I'm like, I can't really remember

that. It was like over 20 years ago, I don't know. Before you just had a cup of tea, sang a few takes, went. Yeah, it's like a whole other person that you were back then, I know. I know, it's a real sort of mindfuck, you know. You're right, it's unlocked a lot of memories, but it has remained pure because it's like, look at what it's done for me now,

kinda handed my career back on a silver platter and letting me do what I love the most, which is make music and play music. And you know what I mean? So it's such a gift. And I am happy because I can tell the story. I've told the story now to like, you know, DJ Mag making of a classic. Like that was really nice. Although they had a bad angle on my face that

I hated. Come on, dudes, raise the camera up. Do not put it from below. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. I know, it's funny because there's a lovely guy at my label who films a lot of their social media content and the camera's always down, the phone's always downhill and down here like, up. Come on. I'm 45. Up here, please.

Thank you. Exactly. And what about your stage persona? Because you and I, we both have a poncho for Sparkly and Lyotards. And I always feel a bit like a superhero when I go out there, but I do know that my kids sometimes have been a bit like a superhero when I go out there, but I do know that my kids sometimes have been a bit like, you know, it's maybe not what they would pick out for me.

You know, I, how have you found having that for yourself with a, with a teenager who maybe is, you know, doing all right. I mean, my, my teenage son found a lot of it quite mortifying, but that might just be my own take on it. No, I think that no matter what you do, you're going to embarrass your teenager. She's slowly like, you're wearing that? She's like, and it's so funny too, because I'm like, all the teenagers here, they wear crop tops and really low sweat pants. And I'm like, you're not allowed to wear that to school. You're showing too much skin. She's like, Oh, really mom? Like, I'm like, I'm an adult.

But yeah, she's in, she's totally embarrassed all the time. And I remember one time like I had to go to a shoot, but I had to like pick her up like beforehand at school and I was like trying to like cover my outfit. She's like, Mom, what are you doing? Like she was dying that like I would come to school like that, you know, I was like, I'm covering, I'm covering. So when she was born, what were you up to with your work at that time?

I know you said this was in amongst a sort of writer's block and a bit of a sort of readjustment for you but were you still, was singing still the thing you were doing or did you experiment with other stuff or were you just taking some time to... Yeah I mean like I, yeah I mean it was a really hard time actually because like my husband lost his job. I sort of stopped touring too. All of a sudden we had this baby and I was like, oh shit, we have no money. And I was like, ah, and I wasn't like the best with money. Like I didn't save all those 10 years

of touring and everything. So I was like, I gotta get a job, you know? And I was devastated that I had to like get a job. And also, you know, being successful in music kind of fucks you up for like actual real world money. You know, I'm like, wow, uh, you know, I earned that in one night and you want me to work a whole month for that fee? So, um, yeah, I had to, I had to work and I was just doing like some odd jobs. But then eventually I settled into like doing creative branding and actually,

funnily enough, like doing people's Instagrams for them. Ah, that's why I'm so good at it. Thank you. I do enjoy, I know, like it was a blessing in disguise because when I had to go actually work A normal person's job like I was devastated. I was like wow, I really am a loser I must never have been talented like really I like to out all the negative self-talk because we all have it and definitely says Different things but like I just want to out it because I want to give it no power You know because it's like wow what a mean thing to say things but like I just want to out it because I want to give it no power you know because it's like wow what a mean thing to say what about it's just like

okay there's a reason why this is happening and I know now why it is you know it's like people always say like more will be revealed when like bad shit happens and it's like oh this is so great it actually all that work of like branding and social media and like sweating and earning what normal people do instead of rock stars like actually serves me now very well for my channels, you know, so yeah. Yeah. And also, I think it's great to talk about it because we are sitting here from the point

of view, feeling able to celebrate so much of what's going on and be empowered. So we know there's a happy ending. And I think it's, I think it's nice for people to know that everybody has those, those demons sometimes to a greater or lesser extent. And the way we speak to ourselves, you know, it's such a significant part of how you frame things. And look how it can absolutely stop you in your tracks. And you're so clearly someone who's an artist. This is the thing that you're meant to do.

It's what makes sense to you. So to have some, it creates such a block. I just think it's really glorious that you've managed to find your way back to it in such a wonderful way. But I'm sorry as well that you had to go through it because I think, and I can imagine that was really lonely. And at the time, the idea of this bit of your life waiting for you would have been unimaginable actually.

Yeah, unimaginable. I mean, like literally I tell people it's like winning the lottery, you know, and then and then the certain people I say that to are like but it's not because you actually put in so much hard work both like, you know physically emotionally spiritually like it's not you didn't win the lottery because that's more you know, but but there is that luck like Element to it and I know if you had told me during that time that that this is what's going to happen and now it was it was mind blowing to say the least. Yeah. And I don't think saying it's like winning the lottery is like to dismiss the talent

and the work you put in. It's more about acknowledging the serendipity, the bit, the bit that's out of your hand with anything that's, all these little ingredients, they just all have to create this little perfect storm. But if it was only down to hard work or talent, then it wouldn't be so extraordinary, it wouldn't be so unique, you know what I mean? It was more commonplace. That's true. And that's the beauty of music. I often you know, I often think songs that you hear, would this have been a hit whenever it came out?

There's always, sometimes there's zeitgeist, there's other things in the ether. I mean, look at what happened last year when America, you know, and the UK, when Universal took all their music off TikTok, right? Yeah. So that happened just at the end of, like Murder had been having this lovely time on TikTok and then it went mute happened just at the end of like, Murder had been having

this lovely time on TikTok and then it went mute, like when it was really like, it had been doing well for a while. So for me, I was like, oh, it's fine. But then I was thinking, what about all those new artists? And they're just seeing their song like going up the curve and then, you know, or, you know, what happened with lockdown and COVID when all the music industry went, it affects people's lives in a way that is completely extra. And for some people, it just will mean that their moment just never actually happened and for other people it did. And that's just the way that the world works.

You know, there's always got to be this extraneous factors we've got no control over and I actually kind of embraced that because I think if you can work it down to a formula, it would take all the fun out of it, wouldn't it? I always think it would be so boring. It's so dry. Well, I love that. And that's beautiful. And it's like, if you go to watch a movie, you don't want to know what's going to happen. And you want to see the character struggle a little and then triumph, right? I mean, that's what, like, can you imagine if you went to a movie and it was just like, everything was the same or you knew what was gonna happen

or the character didn't struggle. So, but it's like in your own life, you don't want that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, no, no, no. I know. So I love that. And you're right, the serendipity is beautiful. It's like incredible.

And it's a good reminder that anybody's life could change in a moment. Absolutely. Well, talking of life changing in a moment, did you always want to be a mother? So like funnily enough, I really was like, I was more like Selena who used to say like, the whole world are my babies, you know, like she just would tour, you know, and I was so I was more leaning towards that but then I met my wonderful husband and I was yeah, it was quite late in life like I was when I met him I was already 38 and Then we were like, okay, let's do. And it was wild, I had her at 40. So yeah, and I'm 53 now.

So it's just been like incredible. It's been the best thing I did in my whole life. Well, that's gorgeous. And funny enough, I have quite a few girlfriends who've had their first or their only baby at like 39, 40, 41. And I think, you know, whenever it happens, it turns out to be the right baby, doesn't it? The right baby at the right time. And I love the album that you did that was kind of cool music for kids. I was listening to that.

It's really good. So it did have a very direct influence on you. I'm trying to remember the song. I think my favorite was Get Off the iPad and I'll Get Off My Phone. Is that what it's called? It's good that one. Put down your iPad and I'll put down my phone. So we don't have to be together and alone. It's so perfect and fun and really it sounds like maybe because of the way you approach your music

making but you could unlock that part of childhood like the fun aspect, the having fun together, being in a moment together and being creative about it. Yeah, thank you. I love that you listen to that. Nobody has listened to that. And actually, is it right that you homeschooled your daughter as well? Yeah, for a long time. She's in school now because she wanted to go, but we did. We did. How was that? Tell me a bit about that. Sure. Was that always the intention?

Yeah, I'm a little bit like an outsider in the sense that like, I'm like, oh, institutions are broken, school was created for kids in factories. And like, you know, and to have like a really unique kid, like you need to see who they are, and then go for that. So like, I really was like, I'm not the type to sit around and teach math or those kind of things. So like, I think a lot of people have a misconception about homeschooling. Like I didn't sit around and have my daughter

like home with me. Like we did a couple things for sure, but like mainly I could see that my daughter was like super into music and dancing and she was super creative too. And also like things like you know Legos or whatever and so I would actually find classes for her where she would make friends and go do these things and there's like lots of like homeschooling

centers right where the kids can be socialized learn what they need to learn and also but it wasn't like the construct of like a you know 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. school and yeah so I did that for a while I mean look if I had had five kids like you I would never I meant the luxury of having one and also not really touring or anything you know that was another benefit of being out of work I suppose and yeah And yeah, so I, I yeah, that's what we did. And then eventually around sixth grade, she was like, Mom, I want to go to school. And I was like, Okay, cool. Let's find a really good school for you. And we did. And she loves going to school, because it's like new. I think it sounds brilliant. And actually, I was nodding emphatically when you describe I do think if I had more energy, I would get a bit more involved in education system because

yes, it works great for some kids, not for others. And if you're one of the ones that's not working well for it, it's really uphill for a lot of it. And I think the idea of being able to absolutely dedicate yourself to that individual child and really explore all the things that are making them tick. That just sounds like an incredible gift. I'm not very good at teaching, I've realized. When we had the lockdown and suddenly I was supposed to teach, I'm really, it is not a skill set I have.

I think it's more than, you have to have more than just a desire to give that to your kids. You have to be really good at implementing as well. But the things that your daughter will take from that first, so I guess that's the first 10 years of her life, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was the first 10 years of her life. Yeah. We did that. And yeah, and you're right. I'm good at teaching English stuff or things that I like. I'm very bad at math. I mean, even now, she'd bring home her eighth grade math and I'm like, what? I don't know how to do any of this. But also, I suppose the bond that she would have with you and with her dad might be different

as well because of that extra time that she had with you guys learning alongside you like that. Yeah, I think it is super special and I love that we had the luxury of being able to do that because you're right, not everybody has the bandwidth, the luxury or the you know, yeah, like, and you know, this world is really set up for like, you need to incomes like to survive, you know, it's like, it's crazy, like, you know, so I mean, like, I gotta say that, while we did have the luxury of that, we didn't have a lot of money, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's kind of like you almost have to pick. It's so fucked up. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And did you, do you come from a creative family? Have you got other creatives that, that were part of your world as well when you were little?

No, no, I'm sort of like the black sheep. I was gonna say the black sheep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My brother and I are drummers and my sister calls herself the white sheep of the family because she's the only one who went like the academic route. So that's hilarious. So yeah, you drum? You're a drummer? No, my brother is the drummer. Oh yeah, you're the singer. He's in my band.

But like, yeah, so we're both musicians and my sister went much more like, she's, you know, went through, got a master's and like, so she's like, I'm the white sheep because she's the white sheep of it because she's the one who did that. But so in your family, it must have been because am I right, you're both your parents, is it psychologists, psychiatrists, I always get muddled up. So what's it like having two parents in psychology? I have a girlfriend I went to school with who had that and I was always quite fascinated by that.

I think it messes you up the most. I can imagine there's aspects of it that are quite intense and a constant interpretation of what feelings are being processed as well, which is exhausting when you're going through them. That's right. And then also sometimes if your parents are wrong about it, then it's like, but they think that they're right because they're the experts. Yeah. But I love my parents.

They did the best that they could with the tools that they had, which is all parents. All parents didn't get a lot of tools, right? Let's face it. Yeah. So yeah. Are there many things about what you're bringing to your daughter's world that are taken from your childhood? Like things that are this, because actually it's a different coast now, is that right? So did you, you grew up New York side?

Oh yeah, New York. Yeah, on the East side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I love, first of all, I love being from New York City. Like I feel like it gives you like a little street cred. And Siren, my daughter was born there too and lived there. We moved when she was eight to the West Coast, mainly because we were in this apartment, you know, everybody in New York City, I suppose it's a lot like London, you're in this tiny apartment. It's so crazy, unless you're fabulously wealthy. Everyone was like, move to LA because you can get more space for the same money. It's still expensive, but you get more space.

They were right. I was like, well, if I I'm gonna move all the way to LA, which I was like terrified of, because when you're a New Yorker, LA is like, ew, you know? It's like New York, London is very connected, you know? And yeah, so we moved here and it was amazing. I was like, I'm gonna move by the ocean. So we did, we moved to Santa Monica and it's so beautiful. And California is also really more open to like homeschooling things. So there's a lot of resources, a lot of different homeschools

and centers and things. So that was great for us too. I just love the nature. Yeah, and very beautiful. I didn't know about the homeschooling centers. I mean, that sounds like a really progressive way to approach education, but you still get the support, still get the social aspects, they still have peers. That's right. But it just means that you're just doing something that's a little bit more steered by your instinct for your child and a little bit liberated from these very strict, as you say, the sort of factory settings of how education normally goes.

Yeah, and you can involve your kid in the educational process. So I would take the like, oh look, these are the classes that these places have. What are you interested in? You know, and I think that that's so special to like ask the child like, hey, what do you wanna do? Instead of like, here's your environment, go.

No, I think that's incredibly empowering. And actually a lot of that's a really modern, much more modern take on parenting, isn't it? I think that's one of the things that my eldest child is in his twenties now. And one thing I really noticed as a difference is the shift to much more about, I don't know what we call it, gentle parenting, where it's not about such big dynamics, but about kind of listening to each other and giving space

and trying to interpret so that they have got a voice and so that the outbursts aren't as frequent because they're not about a frustration of just literally not being listened to. And that's the way. Yeah, it's like respectful. Yeah, like respectful sort of parenting. But my goodness, you started so young.

So how old were you then? You were in your 20s? Yeah, I had, it was just the, it was like a week, two weeks after I turned 25. We had our first. And yeah, it's funny. The years just rolled by and I'm like, wow, he's going to be 21 this year. And it's like, how the hell did that happen? I know, isn't it a trip? Oh my gosh. And you're still together with Richard. You're still

with him. See, and I think that that needs to be celebrated as well. I think that that is so amazing with the divorce, with the like divorce rate being like, you know, 60% or whatever it is and especially in our industry. I just think that that's the most beautiful thing and you guys should be celebrated. You know, yeah, I've been with my husband now for 16 years or 15 years. Yeah. So I mean, like it's, it's, yeah. And I have no interest in cheating and he totally trusts me when I'm on the road. And like, I just think that that's a beautiful thing. It is beautiful. And, and you're right. It's a nice thing to celebrate it because actually

it sounds like we both have a very similar thing with a lot of support, a lot of freedom. And I think that's one thing that when I first started going out with Richard, I could see that really quickly, is he just, he actually always wanted to lift me up. And so all the restrictions I'd had from like other boyfriends and stuff where they were like, don't wear that, don't sing that. That was just like, oh my God, he just wanted to like elevate me. So they actually gave me so much freedom to do the things I want to do and explore. And yeah, it just

wouldn't have been the same story if I hadn't had a partner that was so good at that. And it sounds like you've also been allowed to encourage support. Yeah, I know. My husband is like the best. He'll pack my touring suitcase for me. That is very cute. And he gets so excited. It's almost more excited than me.

I'll get some news like, oh, this is going gold or this is whatever. He's like, oh my God. Oh my God. That's wonderful. And how oh my god that's wonderful and how have you found the turance and how has it been to be away a bit more I mean is it something that you had any sort of struggle with or is it just felt like what an amazing opportunity I get to go to these places and I'm just gonna seize it all it was a combo because it was like going from zero to 60. I mean, I had not been on a tour for probably 12 years, right. So it was like,

all of a sudden, hey, you want to go, you know, to London or whatever. And I'm like, I haven't been there for 12 years. It was like I was in I was like cryogenically frozen. I was like, where's the little thing that you know, on the airplane that you got to fill out for customs? They're like we don't do that Yeah, so it was you know, I was so excited though the level of gratitude which I mentioned before the Gratitude it's like in my gut that I get to go away now now Of course, it's hard to leave my child and she's like,

wait what you're leaving? Because she's not used to that. She never had a mom who toured. So, but I think also the universe is so amazing because she's 13. Like it's not, I'm not leaving an eight year old. You know, it's like, so yeah. And I gotta tell you, like I just went on an Australian tour and the food there was

so good and the hotel had this room service. I was like, I'm never coming home. But of course, I miss my family. Terrible. I'm joking. But I was like, ah. No, Australia is really cool. It is. It's a really great place to be. I totally get you the lifestyle, the food, the coffee, the landscape. The beach, everything. Yeah. You're like, oh, I kind of got this quite sorted actually. Yeah, the coffee, exactly. I was living my best life. I was joking with my husband. I was like, okay, I'm not leaving. He's like, get your ass back here. I'm like, I'm kidding.

But you know, so you miss your family, but you're also just like, ah, it's almost like a vacation a little bit. I mean, of course we're working very hard, but you're also just like, ah, it's almost like vacation a little bit. I mean, of course we're working very hard, but like compared to normal life, it's great. It's fucking great. Definitely. No, we were there, I toured Australia in November and we were there for a couple of weeks

and the band and I were joking that it was like, every time the gig came along, it was like interrupting our holiday. We were literally, we're quite a close band, so we'd all be like, where's the beach for the day? We're doing like these like beach walks and swimming and like everybody's very, very happy and it's like no wonder. Like this is just really nice. Sun is shining, sky is blue. Yeah, big

added down. Yeah, definitely do. And I think it's so nice to talk to you about all this because I think, you know, obviously the thing that first tied us to each other was Saltburn and I think it's such a special bit of chemistry that you know, because Emerald Fanel is an unusual director in that, well, there's other directors like her but not all directors work this way where she has very clear ideas about what music works and what's seen. So having your song used and unlocking this whole adventure is so extraordinary and it's so nice to talk to you because it's such a unique thing to share to be able to relate to.

But did you end up meeting Emerald and the rest of the cast? Have you had much, what's your relationship with the foundations of it? foundations of it? Or was it just like an email and an approval and then off you go? Yeah, it was literally an email and an approval. They paid me a really small sum, so I wasn't expecting anything. I didn't really know anything about it, but I approved it. I was like, okay, this looks cool. I didn't know any of it well I guess I recognize they put the name of the actors don't they so it was like Richard Graham I was like I know that guy he's cool everybody else I had no idea who they were although I think my daughter knew Jacob from Euphoria which she

wasn't allowed to watch, but like she knew him from that. And then I was like, okay, should I do this? Okay, cool, I'll do it. So, yeah, and then, so I really was cut off. I know that you were sort of involved in that. She asked you, didn't she, Emerald, about like the, if you were okay to have your song

with the naked scene or no? You didn't get asked? No way. I just got a little synopsis. I knew her name because I'd seen her previous film and I really liked it, Promising Young Women. And then, so when I got the little, just like you, an email, it had the little synopsis saying the character of Oliver will be dancing through saying, the character of Oliver will be dancing through the house of Saltburn and he'll be completely naked. And I just thought, that sounds funny, sure, count me in. And when I went to see the screening, which I went to see with my mum and my brother and his new girlfriend and my husband and my eldest child, and it was like a Tuesday morning at 10.

The film, as you know, has got some quite challenging scenes. So I spent quite a lot of it with my head, like sort of like self-soothing, because I was sat in between my mum and my son, and I was like, whoa, this is a little bit too bonding. And then by the time it got to the naked bit with Murdo, I'd sort of forgotten that that's why we were there, because I'd been on such a roller-coaster. And it was really hard for me to hear it properly,

because you're just like, oh no, this is me. It really like interrupted the flow of it. So I had to watch it a second time to be able to really take in like the story and where it ended up with the song. But no, it was pretty wild, I have to say. And I remember my son really loving the film. He was like, that's in like my top 10 films I've ever seen. And I thought, I love it too. I really love it. It's dark and funny and twisted and exciting.

And I love how Emerald really like pushes the buttons of like where you can be taken. I think that's, she's having fun with with her audience but I thought oh it's it's pretty it's pretty out there. I think this is quite niche so probably like you know if people see it they'll love it but I don't know if it's it's not a very mainstream type of film. So I kind of was really it was very unexpected when it all picked up. I wasn't expecting it. But it led to both you and I having our first Billboard Hot 100 song in the US as well, right? Yes.

That's pretty cool. Yes, first. I mean, can you imagine at our age and like being on the... And for me being an American, it's especially like incredible because all my success had really been overseas, particularly in the UK and I had a niche audience like a cult audience in the US but like I was like what I'm on the billboard Finally like this is amazing and now my first gold record too Well big cheers for that. I mean, I think I Really? I really think like the music you're making. I mean even before now I was listening earlier to Get an Older Pussy Still Pop as well.

Which could be on Perry Menopop. It really could be on Perry Menopop, 100%. But I think, don't you think it's so exciting? I feel like I want to get a message out to all the young female artists about what an exciting twisty road there might be ahead. I mean, look, you need to be clinging on there when there's some tough going. I mean, there's been bits in my career where I thought, if I stop now, no one's going to

be knocking my door down. They'll go, oh, OK. Come on down. It's bye. Yeah, bye. But it's exciting to be able to still tell your story when you're older, especially because I was very much thinking that I hadn't really worked out where the path was leading for this chapter of my life, really. So it's nice to find that.

Me neither. It's so exciting to find it's so inspiring and empowering. I cannot wait to hear your new music. I'm going to love it. Oh, thank you. I'm so excited. I've never been more excited to put music out, I think, in my whole life. It's so, yeah.

It's, it's, yeah. Well, that is a very happy note to end on. Cheers to that. And it's so lovely to speak to you. And look, let's see how the Grammys do this weekend. We'll have to, I think it's so brilliant to be nominated on an album nominated, like best soundtrack. Let's see. I know. And I really feel like, you and me really kind of were the you know kind of cornerstones of that soundtrack And and funnily enough, I'm actually gonna you know, so I have not had contact with anyone from me from the film But tomorrow I'm actually meeting up with Kirsten Lane who is the music supervisor? She's here to go to the Grammys. So we're gonna hang out and she's got teenage kids

So we're gonna bring on the. She's got teenage kids. So we're going to bring- She's actually been a guest on the podcast. I spoke to Dressen. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Yeah, well, I was fascinated by her role and her sensitivity in interpreting the brief from directors and creating the soundscape because music can be like, it so informs how you receive films and images. It can be like one of those things

where the whole thing locks in and completely, you know, opens your heart more or makes you, you know, all the feelings can come to the surface if the music is scooping you that way. So yeah, we had a great, will you send her my love, please? She's- I will. She's very lovely woman.

And yeah, it's a nice, unexpected new friend to have from all these new little streams that have come from this really. Yeah, totally. I will. That's amazing. That's so nice. Yay! Oh, you know what?

I should ask you actually because I saw on your Instagram that you were having to evacuate. So are you now back in your home? Whereabouts am I speaking to you at the moment? Where are you? Yeah, I'm in Santa Monica, which is right adjacent to the Palisades. And basically what was happening was the Palisades fire, like the evacuation zone was like kind of getting like, you know, a couple blocks from where we live or avenues, I should say. And then we just freaked out and left. I mean, we didn't,

we weren't forced to evacuate, but we are just like, this is too close. So we just, we left and went down to San Diego, but we're back now. And again, we have it so good compared to a lot of my friends who lost schools for their kids and houses, obviously. So yeah, I mean, I have it fine. But yeah, it has been so intense over here. What's the mood like at them? I'm so sorry about your friends. I've had friends lose houses as well. And I think it's made me feel differently about my own home, actually.

It's made me think about all the things in it and what they represent. And I think I use a lot of things as an aid memoir, really. They literally help me remember stuff. And they can be an instant portal back to moments in my life. And if I don't have those things to sort of remind me I'm worried that I'd actually lose the memory as well. So it's more and that's like without, you know, goes without saying all the actual fact that it's your home, it's your where you sleep, where you feel safe, where you go at the beginning and end your days. So I can't imagine but what's the mood like around is it still something that's an

everyday part of where you're living? Yeah, it's definitely like very heavy. Like I actually was in New York City during 9-11 and I live downtown and it kind of feels like that a little bit like a sort of like energetic like weight sort of around but there's also been like a lot of credible generosity and love and people like I was I was talking to one woman who I didn't know whose house burnt down she's like actually she's like it's so much to receive like there's so much love kindness and things coming her way that she's like it's a lot to even receive and I was like yeah you have to like

expand your like receiving and I think that's a beautiful gift and I keep hearing too from people like that you know there's a certain type of serenity that's coming in as a result of like a tragedy of course it's horrible and they're crying too but like that there's like a serenity as well a sort of non-attachment feeling coming in, like the Buddhist practice non-attachment. So, there's an interesting phenomenon. And then in music, did you see it like Heidi Montag?

She has a hit from 2012 because her house burned down. Like, and TikTok came and was like, let's help her rebuild her house and made her song number one on iTunes. Yeah. So it was beautiful stuff. That's interesting. I mean, I suppose that's, I do think a lot about, and you mentioned 9-11 and other things

where there's a sort of collective grief, like a thing where it involves whole communities or going through something simultaneously that does inevitably, probably because people are interacting constantly, bring out philosophies, ways of dealing with things, ways people are communicating with each other. They're intended to help heal. That's what humans do for one another when people are hurting. So it's, you know, that's, I mean, obviously you would forgo all of it to not experience it, but I do appreciate that some really wonderful good things are coming out of how people can look out for one another and pick each other up. And as you say, you have to be expanded just to be able to receive all this goodwill that's coming your way because it's all got such good intention behind it. you say you have to be expanded just to be able to receive all this goodwill that's coming

your way because it's all got such good intention behind it. So yeah, I imagine that's a pretty powerful thing to be in the mix. Well, thank you for sharing that with me because I did think, wow, I know that's something that had affected you a little bit. So I thought I should, I wanted to hear it from you really. Yeah, thank you. So here's your answer over there. But yes, I'm very happy that you guys are well and safe and feeling good in yourselves. So, that's a good thing. Thank you.

And thank you so much. Thank you so, so much. It's been a gorgeous thing to think, to actually talk to you and you've got the whole of your day reaching out for you. And for me, it's like Friday night, but you've got the whole of Friday still ahead. I've got the whole day. Let's see what happens. As we come to a close with the conversation with Princess Superstar,

can you hear the bells ringing? Can you hear that? For it is 10 o'clock on this Sunday morning. So the bells are ringing from the local church which actually sounds very sweet. And thank you so much to Conchetta aka Princess Superstar. I mean I think it's um it's wonderful to see how much she loves what she does but also I mean that tune is so good and in the movie it's brilliant but I always had a soft spot for it and for her actually it's funny I do remember you know songs like Bad Babysitter and and that perfect one and I always always had a soft spot for it. And for her actually, it's funny. I do remember songs like Bad Babysitter and that perfect one. I always thought she came across really well

and seemed like fun, which indeed she is. It was also nice to see that she, I mean her stage wear, I would actually say it's my stuff to a new degree actually. I mean, I like to wear the odd Sputekin leotard but I think her stuff is kind of mixed in with proper clubby culture so it's like that with extra shoulder pads and sunglasses and it's really impressive. I like it. It's given me a roadmap for where I can go in the next 10 years. So thank you so much to her for talking to me. Thank you to Richard for editing my podcast, Claire Jones for producing my podcast,

to Ella May for my beautiful artwork, but mainly to you for lending me your ears yet again. I'm sorry if I'm not massively coherent. My brain does feel a little bit like I've taken a whisk to it. Scrambled egg is what my brain feels like today. But it's all good. I've got a week of decompressing before my next show and so I'm just gonna blob out for a little bit and just let the dust settle. I mean I do absolutely love what

I do for a living and I love the fact that you can have these unexpected adventures but every once in a while I'm like that that kind of something that really you know you sort of push it as far as you can sometimes. But hey, 14 hours in Bangkok, it was worth it. What a crazy way to spend Valentine's night. And actually eat some really good Thai food while I was there because come on, I'm not going to waste that opportunity. Right, have an amazing week.

Thank you so much for all the lovely comments I've been receiving for this series. The podcast is totally a passion project for me, so everybody that engages with it, everybody that says they listen, everybody that has suggestions for future guests, it really means a lot to me. Super appreciate it. And I'm actually approaching the fifth anniversary, fifth birthday of the podcast. So look how far we've come, baby. It's all good's all good alright I will see you next week have a lovely week whatever you're acting, take care, bye. I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better