Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 151: Paula Radcliffe

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Olympic athlete and TV commentator Paula Radcliffe lives in Monaco with her husband Gary, and her two children Isla and Raphael.Paula is a 3 time winner of the London Marathon and held the Women's World Marathon Record for 16 years (2003-2019). I spoke to her just after she competed in the Tokyo Marathon aged 51, her first marathon since retiring aged 40.Paula recently co-hosted a lighthearted training podcast Paula's Marathon Run Club for the 16 weeks leading up to the London Marathon. She had a parental interest in this year's race as her own daughter Isla ran in aid of Children with Cancer UK. Paula talked to me about how her daughter went through a cancer diagnosis at the age of 13 and a half. She has happily since been given the all clear.  Paula also described her family life in Monaco and I admit I looked up the weather forecast there and felt pretty envious!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophie Ellis-Bexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates Hello there old friend, how are you? Oh my word. Has it really been I don't know How long has it been? Five weeks since I last spoke to you

Hope you're good. long has it been? Five weeks? Since I last spoke to you. I hope you're good. How's life been? I am speaking to you from Singapore actually. I'm in my hotel room. I... I just filmed a TikTok. I'm telling you that because it's quite out of character for me. Normally TikTok is my kids' thing and I normally do it with them if we do it at all.

I don't mean they're in it, I mean, they sometimes they'll grab my phone and they'll ask me a silly question that I don't know what they're gonna ask me. And that's normally the sort of TikToks I put up. So doing a kind of like singing at the phone one is quite good fun, but I also feel a bit like, ooh, who am I?

Who is this woman? Anyway, I am on the 20th floor of a hotel which is why I did TikTok because I've done a song called Vertigo and I thought well I actually do feel a bit vertiginous when I look over that balcony. I have been prepping for the tour. I have four weeks to go until the tour starts. This is my biggest UK and Ireland tour that I've ever done actually in my career. So that's pretty cool. But also a bit like, oh, got to get it right. If you're coming along, it's going to be really cool actually. And I say that not to big myself up but because I have such a brilliant team around me. I feel really good about it. I've got lots of shiny new toys. as in just everything's looking really

good. It's all kind of coming together. There's lots of hard work going on. Yeah you know the score. If you come along my aim is to transport us a bit just so we can can shake off the stress of whatever's going on. It's gonna be nice. Well I started picking out some new music for an album. So this song Vertigo, yeah that's just come out. And a song called Redentless Love, which I adore. I love them both. And actually, it's a funny world,

because when I first started making albums, you'd put out a single and work that single to the lead up to release. Now it's all different. So I had a first single from this album called Freedom of the Night last year. And then this time, these are two tracks are not... they're singles in so far as they are a little like ambassadors for the record but they are

not singles in that you don't take them to radio and you don't work them in the same way. They're kind of like more things to set the tone of the album. They will be the next official single coming up soon. So yeah that's exciting. It's been lovely introducing new music actually. I'm so happy with the album. And yeah, in the meantime, I've also been beavering away with the podcast because it's still one of my favorite things. And you know what, it's been five years now. Crazy. So if you're just joining me, welcome. There's so many amazing conversations in the archives for you. And if you're just joining me, welcome. There's so many amazing conversations in the archives for you. And if you're a familiar ear, then thanks.

Nice to have you here again. My first guest of this series is Paula Radcliffe. And what a joy it was to speak to her. Paula has really, she's a very impressive woman. She's achieved so much. I mean, Olympic athlete, obviously does TV commentary. She's three time winner of the London Marathon. She has held the Women's World Marathon record

for 16 years, that's from 2003 to 2019. When we spoke, she had just completed, just competed in the Tokyo Marathon at the age of 51, which is her first marathon in a decade. Super exciting stuff. She's now also just run the Boston Marathon. She's begun her own podcast called Paula's Marathon Run Club, which has been in the 16 weeks leading up to the London Marathon and obviously she's got loads of amazing advice. My brother Rizzo DiMonna, he was very excited when I told him I was speaking to her and yeah she's got loads of advice, incredibly supportive and it was nice because we spoke about how

challenging running can be but also the tonic that it provides as well. It's helped her through things like the death of her father and her daughter's cancer. So we have spoken about all of that. Her daughter is actually running the London Marathon. It's her first ever marathon and she is running it for children with cancer UK because she was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 13 and a half. She's not happily and having given the all clear, but we will be talking a lot about that. And yeah, just a lovely conversation. I spoke to her, it was on Zoom. We were chatting when I said Zoom, it wasn't on Zoom. It was on something called Riverside.

Do you need to know that? That's a boring detail. But I just felt I've had to be factually accurate. And Paula was in Monaco experiencing lovely weather. We were still in the midst of cold snap. It's now starting to be more spring-like in the UK. I say that from humid Singapore, but yeah, apparently the sun is shining back home and I'll be back in a couple of days. In fact, by the time you hear this, I'm back home.

Anyway, it's absolutely lovely to be back with you for another series of the pods. Happy, happy days. I just want to take this moment as well to say thank you to Ella May, who's doing the artwork for this podcast series. She is having her first baby soon, and she's been having quite a tricky pregnancy with a lot of sickness. So Ella May, if you're listening, I just want to say thank you so much

for being such a sweetheart and continuing to be part of the podcast family. There's also my husband Richard who is so super supportive and always does the edit. I normally give him a thank you at the end but I kind of want to put it here because he's honestly been such a champion of all of this and given me a little bit more confidence in approaching people and starting the podcast in the first place and seeing as we've reached the five year anniversary I think it's nice to be able to celebrate those things and also my producer Claire Jones who's been with me since day one we've been friends for oh my gosh since I was a teenager but um yeah she was my first choice to produce the pod she's been absolutely brilliant by my side

through all of it and here we are five years down the line what a nice thing we share and now we share it with you you're part of of it too. So thank you so much. Yeah, I feel like I need to at some point in the series maybe do a little bit more of a chat about about what the podcast means to me other than the bit where I said I love doing it at the beginning. But you're like enough already.

Let's hear from Paula. You're going to love this conversation. It was a joy to speak to her. I felt like she was really warm and open and And also just super impressive. So here she is. Here I am with her. See you in a bit It's such a pleasure to talk to you I've been super excited. How are you feeling at the moment? So you're midway between the two. You've done the Tokyo Marathon and you've got Boston on the horizon.

How are you feeling? It's quite surreal because I kind of set this goal for me. It was really just something that I thought, you know, I kind of want to, I turned 50 last year and 51 now. I'm kind of like, actually want to, I turned 50 last year and 51 now, I'm kind of like, not actually the year before I turned 50, and I thought, right, okay, now I've got my foot to a point where it can probably just about tolerate two marathons on the road and I can do it kind of just to tick that box in a similar way to why I understand that

Isla, my daughter, wants to run London this year of zero training, zero preparation in the middle of her back, which is the equivalent of A-level exams and going off to uni and things. It really doesn't feel like the right timing, but I get that she just wants to prove to herself that she's healthy now and she can get through it. And so that's kind of why I set the goal. And then we started the podcast and people started talking about it. Of course, people seized upon it because it's me coming back. But it's not really me coming back to being competitive. It's just being a part of that vibrancy that is that camaraderie on Marathon Day itself.

And it's something really special and really unique that I love. And so that's why I kind of jumped back into Tokyo. And I made some silly mistakes that I just hadn't realized. Because when you're a professional athlete, you're looking at all of the components. And things have moved on in the time that I'd retired. And I didn't realize that. And so I ended up really bruising the outside of my foot. And to be honest, the second half of that race was not the fun that I hoped it would be.

It was more kind of survival mode and getting through it. But since then, I've kind of run that whole cycle of like, what on earth am I doing? I'm not going to be able to do Boston to actually, I might have protected the really vulnerable joint in my foot by the stupid mistake that I made. So I'm kind of hoping that that will go and that I've learned some lessons going into Boston and that my pride needs to take a back seat. And it really is just about me enjoying that day. And I really want to enjoy that one in the same way that I want to see Isla enjoy London. Yeah, well, I want to talk to you about lots of that.

I want to talk to you about Isla and your son and her marathon and your future one and the podcast. But before I get to that, how do you feel when you're running? What does running give you? It's really hard to describe what it gives me. Probably very similar to when you're on stage performing or maybe when you're in the middle of putting the music together.

It's kind of like, it's developed. So when I was a kid, I just plain and simple liked the way I felt. I liked the way that I felt to push my body and to kind of be on the edge of things all working in sync and not really thinking about much else and kind of that zoned out-ness but at the same time very much focused. And then it's developed into more than that because it's been such a big part of my life and it's been the ups and downs of it where things have really worked out and there's huge highs and then there's the huge devastation of things not working out in competition and kind of at the same

time running would still be my healing in that time. And so now it really is kind of, I guess the closest I can describe it is this kind of meditation. I don't do yoga or anything like that. I go for a run because that is me only thinking about running and at the same time processing all of the thoughts in the background and gaining a huge amount of perspective. I think it helps me to put things in order and to work out what's important to me and what's not important and kind of rewrite things in my head a little bit.

Yeah, I get that. And actually, it's really nice to speak to you about the positives of running because my brother's got really into running. He runs sort of ultra marathon lengths and he's helping him actually process grief, but also it helps him just in his general mental health. He's got really addicted and he's been watching a lot of running films and he said that so often it's about how grueling things is, how hard it is. He said, I want to talk about the positives, all the good stuff that comes with it. So it's nice to hear, you know, you talk about the healing that it gives you and the perspective and the meditative flow state of just being in that moment and processing and letting

your thoughts come and go. And no one is going to, you don't need to explain yourself to anyone because you're running. That's what you are doing in that moment. So it's kind of given me a lovely feeling because I can really get that it represents all of those things. And so you started in the podcast for the run up to the London Marathon, is that right? Yes, that's right.

So we're doing a 16 week to London Paulus Marathon Run Club. And we're loving doing it. I mean, I'm doing it with a friend that I've kind of, I've seen grow up through the ranks, Chris Thompson, and we're doing it for the Children with Cancer UK. But it's pulling together the community and all of those things that I've said that that's why I'm going back into marathon running. And it's to be a part of that community. And so, putting that together, people have been amazing, even in Tokyo, people from all over the world were coming up to me from Australia, from Japan, from Seoul and saying, listen, we're really loving listening to your podcast, it's really helping us. Even people getting ready for marathons later in the year, they're kind of listening now and saving it to listen then in the buildup. So, I'm really enjoying that and we're hoping we can keep it going moving forward, maybe

in another marathon build-up for the autumn marathons, but also for shorter distances as well. Yeah, and I guess it's quite- And kind of put that together. Yeah, and it's quite evergreen really because the training period, you know, you said some things have changed, but there'll be a lot of it that's about those conversations that are really useful for people to tune into and get into that community and start thinking along those ways. Because that's I guess a big part of it is your mental state of it, how you're

prioritizing. I was actually listening to you yesterday talking about something that I thought was so clever, where your dad said that when you were young you used to struggle with a bit of insomnia sometimes before runs. And he'd be like, well, so long as you're lying down, it's kind of okay. And you've done lots of sleeping already, so don't worry about it. You just lie, don't walk around, but still stay still.

And then that's fine. And just those little things that can really give you that permission to like let go of the stress or the anxiety surrounding what you think is the wrong or right way to be training? Yeah. I mean, I think so much of the advice that my dad gave me and also kind of didn't give me, just guided me to has been really, really important.

And kind of the older you get, the older my kids get, and I kind of see it going full cycle again, I realize, oh my goodness, he didn't actually say to me, this is how you have to do it. He kind of gave me all the pieces to put together and left me to figure it out on my own. And some of those pieces I put together in maybe a slightly different way, but it worked for me. And I think that was His real strength. There was no dictating, this is the way that you should do things. There was just like, life's a bit of a puzzle and you kind of take the pieces and you fit it together. And sometimes you get it right, sometimes you get it wrong, and sometimes you figure something out by accident. But that process of figuring it out, I think, is a really,

really valuable part of growing up and getting to know yourself. I totally agree. And it's quite hard, isn't it, as a parent sometimes to navigate when to give lots of advice and when to kind of step back. So I guess the logical next question is, how are you dealing with seeing your daughter prepping or not prepping as you mentioned, for the London Marathon? It's tough because I mean, I learn my daughter, she's very, very stubborn, very strong-willed, amazing person, but everything has to be done Ila's way.

And it's been that way since she was like one and a half and Mike can do it on my own, Mike can do it on my own. And she kind of needs to do that. But at the same time, there are those like cry for help in there, which is like, Mom, I'm really stuck now, but you really need to help me out here. And it's kind of learning that balance. And I get it, I get that she doesn't want because she's not trying like she keeps saying to me, Mom, I'm not trying to run 215,

I'm not trying to run a really fast marathon, I just want to get around to show that I can do it, I want to raise money for children with cancer UK, because I appreciate that I'm the lucky one, and there are kids that aren't that lucky, and I want to try and make a difference there. And I really respect that in that way, and I also get that she can't go to a dad either, because he's

kind of very like her and he's very perfectionist and he's training marathons at the top level. And that's not what she wants. She doesn't want to be told, oh, you need to get better and do this or this. She needs a kind of realistic approach right now. And that's why I'm hugely grateful to Steve Cram for stepping in. I've kind of grown up through the athletic ranks with his partner, Alison. We're very, very good friends. And she was out actually looking after my kids while I was in Tokyo. And she sat down and she said, okay, he's going to advise her because it's that one step removed. And he's basically said, right, how much time do you have in the week? These are the absolute basics to get through it and enjoy it on the day. And I'm so, so grateful to him for doing that because that's the biggest thing.

I want her to do something that I love doing and enjoy it. And I want her to kind of say, all right, maybe I get it now. I get why my mom's so passionate about getting out for her run. And so that's all I want her to finish with a smile on her face, having enjoyed it, not crying her eyes out and hating every minute of it. Yeah. And I think it's funny because sometimes people would say to me, your kid's musical, my husband and I are both musicians. And I've always said, oh, I hope my kids enjoy music and find their own relationship with

it because it's been such a big thing for me. I'd love it if it's part of their world, but it doesn't have to be what they do. And it sounds like it's your daughter's instinct, like her stubbornness is also protecting her a little bit because it'll give her the opportunity to develop her own relationship with running. And it'll be on her terms rather than her pushing herself and then having to deal with, you know, finding out what happened when she tries to see what you could do. And I think that's a lot for a daughter to even have that in her peripheral. Plus you've also got this added perspective of the fact that you're doing this with children with Cancer UK

and you know that's what the support is for. So let's talk a little bit about your relationship with that charity. When did you start working with them? Is it two, three years ago? It's kind of like blurred a little bit. It was after we had gone through our journey because Isla was diagnosed when she was 13 and a half in the middle of COVID or just at the end of it, so in kind of end of August, beginning of September. And we went through that kind of rounds of chemo, hospital stays, through to the surgery up until Christmas. And actually on New Year's Eve, we got the news that everything was clear after the tumor had been removed and she would go through the screening process for the next couple of years.

But that kind of finished off, in honesty, a horrible year through COVID, because I'd lost my dad in April as well. And so that process of that was difficult at the time, certainly for her to talk about, and she didn't want it out there until she knew everything was clear. So in some ways, COVID helped us because nobody was working. So nobody was traveling. So it wasn't strange that I wasn't working, I wasn't doing stuff. And I was able to be with her as much as she needed me. And so in that respect, I think it definitely helped. But then moving on afterwards, really well aware that we had exceptional care from start to finish. We weren't lucky, but we had the type of childhood cancer that the prognosis is good, the odds were good from the start, the care was really good, and she handled it well. She really managed to process that chemo effect that is horrible to watch your child go through

because you can't really do anything for them other than be there as an emotional support. You can't take any of that pain for them. They have to deal with that on their own. And so that's why I think it was really important to me to kind of give back in some way. And so we did a trip to Kenya, I think just before we joined Children with Cancer UK as ambassadors. And that was predominantly with a charity called Shoe for Africa, who were trying to build the first children's pediatric cancer hospital in Sub-Saharan Africa, because there

wasn't one in the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa. So whereas generally the odds for kids in the developed world and where we are are like eight, nine out of 10, we'll make it through, there it's completely flipped and it's one or two just because of the late diagnosis and the lack of treatment. And so that really hit home. And so we went out, we tried to make it a bit of a holiday as well, so the kids got to go on safari. But a huge big part of it was running this relay from the equator to Eldoret in Kenya where the hospital is being built and just kind of breaking ground on that. And I think it was really important for us but for Isla as well to kind of see that and

be okay, now I'm out the other side. The visible signs like her hair was still growing back but she was out the other side and she could see that okay, I got a good hand in this and I need to make sure that it's kind of equal and fair to the point where she's still kind of doing that now and working in tandem with Children with Cancer UK and hugely proud of her that she's basically chosen to do her big in-depth topic that she has to do for the baccalaureate, kind of working on the inequalities of healthcare and specifically cancer treatments in the US because she has to do a link with the US and so yeah she's kind of doing

that so we've tied that into the Boston trip as well where we'll go and visit St Jude's and there's going to be a partnership starting there because children with cancer is going global but at the same time she's kind of handing back and doing a lot of in-depth studies and trying to do something about erasing those inequalities. Well, firstly, that's pretty well of her. I think that's wonderful, an amazing way to take an experience and then say, well, I'm not done learning about this actually, let's push that further, let's learn more, let's

shine a light on that. That's incredible. And I'm already thinking this girl sounds pretty amazing. But also my heart goes out to you because dealing with the loss of a parent and finding out your child has cancer and needs immediate treatment in one year, I mean, either of those things is huge. It's just a lot, I'm sorry, that's what I really feel for you. I lost a parent in COVID as well, so I know that feeling of that grief

and then having to deal with something like that at the same time, also while you've got all these unknowns about what's going on in the world, it's just, that's a lot going on there. And I'm so happy it has a happy ending, of course, how brilliant that, as you say, the luck was there. But, and the good fortune of, you know, where she found herself a treatment. But I was thinking about you as a mother at that time. And of course, you also have a son, so you're thinking about how to make sure you're still present

for him. He's lost his granddad, he's got, you know, lockdowns and all those things to handle. And then his sister is unwell with lots of questions that can't be answered just yet. Plus there's the fact that when you're watching your teenage children, you're bringing up so many things that are, of course, their version of it, but they're familiar. You know, you think, oh, I remember being 13. I remember how I felt about myself. But then when your daughter experiences that, that's an experience that you haven't had yourself first hand. So you've got to watch her go through it, aware that there's something she's dealing with that you don't really necessarily know how that feels. And I think that's something

that we're not really prepared for in that way. And all the conversations other parents are having about where her peers are at, suddenly you've slipped into this other category for a while that is outside of that. Yeah, and I don't think you actually come out of it. And I think that's the biggest thing for her, it's that loss of that childhood. Because at 13, you're very much still coming to terms with so many things. And those normal teenage things, she didn't have, she just kind of was removed from those. And COVID removed some of that for all of the kids in that generation. But she was forced to grow up and process that so much more quickly. And on the one hand, she did grow up and it gave her a huge sense of maturity and

advance and she'd sometimes come home from school when she got back to school and she'd be like, mom, I don't understand. I don't understand why it's such this little drama that's happened in the playground or in the classroom is such a big thing to my friends because it's nothing. It's really not important in the scheme of things. And so that maturity, it was really hard for her to process because it was almost like she'd been forced to grow up in an area that her peers still weren't there. So she was kind of alone in that in terms of who she would talk to and process that with. And I think it was a process that took a while for her to come through and at the same time, she really valued the fact that the friends

that she has are really, really strong friends because they were there through something difficult. Funny little things like they would do things without thinking about it that would actually really cheer her up and make her laugh. I remember her first birthday after she was okay, and obviously she's got no hair. And she's wearing the wig, and she had a big sleepover with her friends, and they're kind of hanging. And they've got the typical teenage girl thing, the basket of hair mask and all this stuff, and she's looking at it, and her friend friend's looking at her and she said, oh, and she said she saw it dawn on her friend's face and who was mortified. At the same time, she was like, it was funny though, mum. It made me

laugh that she just didn't register, even though she knew that she was wearing a wig. She just didn't register and it helped her to cheer up. Then Isla's competitive instinct as well. So she'd gone back to sport and she was insisting that she could still run with the wig. And I think part of her was thinking, well, the rest of this class doesn't really realize they think it is my hair. And the wig came off in the middle of the relay race and she was absolutely mortified. But one of our other friends just kind of snatched it up, took it back out by the hand because she'd run indoors and said, right, you get back out

and you finish running without it. And kind of all tufts of hair from the hair net just sticking in all different directions. But from that day, she never wore the wig again. And she actually carried off short hair really, really well. But I think she thought it was a bigger deal going back than it actually was. And in the end, that being the more dramatic way to lose it was kind of like pulling the plaster off. That's off now, everybody knows, so let's just get on with it as it is.

And that kind of comprehension and maturity, I think, just pulled her forward. And while she can still be absolutely your normal teenager with those big strops, she can also contextualize it afterwards in a way that sometimes really, really surprises me. Like it was her that said to me, you know what, mom, I kept saying, why do you have to do it this year? Why do you have to do the marathon this year? Would not the first year at uni be a nicer way to try and do it balance-wise? And she's like, no, mom, it has to be this year because it's 40 years since Grandi ran it.

It's 10 years since you ran it. And so she was kind of pulling those pieces together that I hadn't even thought about, the fact that it's now generations. So it's my dad, then myself and my brother, and then now her doing it. And she was pulling those together to make herself feel closer to her granddad. That's also a testament to how she feels about her family as well, that she's drawing all that together.

Yeah. And I wonder as a family if it brings you closer. I mean, sometimes these things can be forged in a far particular at that teenage bit as well. And sometimes it's about a separation, but you both needed to be with each other. Yeah. So it's probably forever changed your relationship in that way as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think not just with me, but with her dad as well. I mean, she was getting to that 13-year-old girl and there's kind of that inevitable from very, very close because when she was little, essentially, it was my husband

with as much of the day as I was because we were in that training environment. So, very, very close to her dad. And then that 13-year-old path, you're kind of starting to separate a little bit. And so then that really brought them back together as well. We kind of felt like you have this second chance at kind of really just spending time with them. And she would come back and because it was in COVID, she couldn't go back to school in the gaps between treatments that when normally she might have done. So again, it was like long walks with her dad, just spending time there because that was really hard, because the rules of the hospital were one parent only in the room at any time. And we

kind of needed that anyway, because somebody had to be with Rafael. But at the same time, it was really hard on him emotionally to see his little girl going through that pain and kind of not being able to be there. Yeah, that is a lot. And you mentioned Raphael, so was he around 10 at that time? Yes, yeah. So he kind of was in his final year of primary school and it was really hard for him to process. I mean, to begin with, to hear the words cancer I think is really, really scary because they don't know the nuances of that and how for a child it's not quite as bleak as it might be for an adult. And getting him processing that was so much more difficult. And at the same time, he was really, really sweet with so many things. Like, I mean, he's got this like very, very blonde hair, and it was kind of in a floppy

style there. And he would sit and let her style it because she couldn't style her own. And he was like, it's okay, Ila, you can do that. But you just, you have to brush it out before I go out anyway. That's so sweet. But he just instinctively understood that. And like, I remember the day that, because when the hair falls out, it's really traumatic. I think I didn't understand exactly how traumatic it is.

It just basically mats. Then you try and comb it out, but you have no option but to keep cutting those knots out. It gets to the point where she who was so desperate to keep her hair was just like, okay, you can just take it all off because I just can't deal with this trauma every morning, every time I go to sleep and it's just there again. So he had seen a bit of that the morning he'd gone off to school. We'd gone and picked up the wig in the day and she hadn't had time to have it shaped

yet or anything. And so she just basically stuck a baseball cap on it and we walked to school to meet him from school. And he came out and he just looked at it and he went, Isla, how did they stick it all back on again? It was just really sweet and you just think your heart is actually going to break. I don't think he meant it to be as beautiful and as genuine and as important to her as it was, but it just came out.

She was like, he doesn't think that. he doesn't think that it's not actually my hair that's just come back. And it really meant a lot to her at that point, but a huge amount to me as well. But you do, you go through that guilt because you think, I'm not there for him as much as I would have been ordinarily. And is that going to have an impact on him? Again, massively, massively grateful to all of the family and friends around that for stepping up because I had friends who were mothers of his peers at school who basically just stepped up and said, you know what, we've got this. We've got the homework. We've got the getting him to school on time. We've got the lunch times and getting everything back. You need to just concentrate

on her for the times that you're in hospital and then we'll work it out around that. And yeah, you really, really appreciate how lucky we are to have the friends and support that we have. Yeah, I mean, you've mentioned the support for him, but also Isla's friends from all angles really. And I guess when you're in those moments, that suddenly counts for so much, all the little gestures, all the little things when someone's just thought of you in that way. Yeah, yeah. Just reminds you that there's people out there who love you and are thinking of you and happy

to actually step in and do something. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, and I also think it's so brilliant. I don't know if your family have done it with a completely like very self-aware or it's more just happened as you know instinctively but I think the fact that you know Isla is running the marathon for the charity, she's thinking about the you know how to involve in her studies, it's just sometimes things happen and they're not just a pause of break from normal life back into normal life back in again.

They are something that forever, you know, twists the way the tree grows. And so I think growing it into something positive and something that actually becomes part of your story in a way that can actually be framed in a way that makes you feel like informed. It gave you something, a perspective, the desire to make a difference.

I think that's such a brilliant instinct to trust because I think that there can be a desire to just sort of shut things away a little bit. But the more you can keep it open and talk, but also say, okay, we've had this insight. We've seen there's a whole world out there of other people experiencing different varieties of that. Some of them haven't been as lucky as us. Not everybody would want to get involved like that, but I think it's a really positive thing to do. Yeah. I think you touched on it there. It's like, trust your instincts. It's really,

really important. I think that was something that we kind of had to do when she was going through the treatment because we really had no clue. You don't think, how am I going to face something like this? It's not something that you can ever plan for or know what to do. You're kind of thrown into it and you have to trust the people around you, which is why I think the charity does such great work in terms of putting in the care, not just for, they put a lot of work obviously into the research and the diagnosis and the medical care, but also the care for the siblings, the care for the parents, the care for recognizing the fact that, yeah, dads actually, I mean, it is a real stereotypical thing to say, but they don't talk about it as much.

And I think certainly in our family, that's absolutely been the case. Gary is someone who bottles something up. I'm someone who talks it out and processes it and kind of goes at it head on. And Isla's kind of a mix in the middle there. And it's kind of recognizing that it's okay, whichever way you're going to get through it, it's okay. But what you do have to do is get through it. You have to process it at some point.

And she got to that point and he's maybe still just getting to that point now and it's kind of taken a while. But again, it's okay in your own time. And there is no rule book in how you process something like that. You do have to learn. And it's not like, I think that's where the charity is really great. It's not like there is a blueprint, this is what you need to do. Everybody's going to be a little bit different.

Just more putting that support in is a way to process through that. I think that's what she's understood really, really well. Moving on, there are some times that she doesn't want to talk about and doesn't want to remember and she has completely blocked those away. I think that's okay, so long as she's dealt with the underlying trauma of it in processing that. That really came to her head actually two years after she'd had the surgery and she'd had the tumor removed when we had a scare.

They saw something on one of the scans and we were pulled back in and she basically had a three-hour surgery, an hour and a half laparoscopically, an hour and a half cesarean, trying to find this shadow that actually wasn't there. And they came out and explained to us afterwards as parents, oh, it's really good news because there's nothing there. We looked really, really thoroughly and there's nothing there. And I said, well, yeah, that's great. But how do I now explain to a 15, almost 16 year old that she's just had a three hour surgery essentially for nothing and it's all okay. And that was the point where she said, right now, mum, I need proper, I need proper psych

care. I need a psychologist to talk to, but it has to be in English. I'm not doing it in French. It has to be in the language that I'm most comfortable in. And she was really aware enough to realize that, okay, the first time I went through it and I didn't have a choice and I got through it. But now this reignited all of those fears and I thought I was going back into that again. And she was mature enough to say, okay, I need that now. And that has massively helped her. And it was something that she knew she couldn't just deal with with us as a unit.

She had to get the proper care to work through that. Yeah. And I think as also as she gets older, she'll have more autonomy as well with those conversations like when she crosses into 18, it all changes again. But I was thinking as well that when you've seen your child go through something traumatic as well, the concentric circles of being in the after where you're in the happy version of what went on, continue for so long, those echoes, and I bet there's bits where you're in the happy version of what went on, continue for so long those echoes and I bet there's bits where you and your husband will see her laughing with her friends or dancing or something fun and you'll just have that moment of like, we weren't

sure we'd get, you know, just acknowledging you get to see that and someone, you know, asking your daughter to be carefree and just being silly and all those good days that you just don't ever take it for granted again, do you? We didn't know we'd get to see that. Yeah, yeah. And even now, I mean, just because she's now going through the whole university application thing, and that was really stressful to see because for someone who's been through so much, she's still got really, really stressed.

I get it. I can remember back to that time and you're anxiously waiting for the one that you want to go to, to come back with some kind of offer. And it is, it's really, really stressful. I could see her and because I know her, you kind of see that the walls come down to begin with. It's absolutely fine. I don't know what you're talking about, I'm not stressed about it, no, you absolutely are stressed about it. Trying to support as much as possible through that, but at the same time, she does have that perspective as well in it, it's not the end of the world. She's like, it's okay, if it doesn't then I'll just have to go through it again next

year and try and get to the one that I want to there. But yeah, she was very set on this is what I want to do. And she kind of set her heart on Durham and she'd set her heart on law. And you see them go through that hurdles and you can't help them with it. They have to learn it themselves. But she has done, I mean, I'm so proud of the way that she's managed that because I remember back to when she was doing the, the Plover, which is the equivalent of the GCSEs out here. And she was only less than a year out of chemo when she started that year. And she really couldn't remember.

And her memory was really, really affected by it. And yet she came through that with kind of decent grades. And now to see her grow and do as well as she is doing, I'm like so proud of the journey that she's taken. Oh, well, I'm very happy from here too. I want to go back in time actually. What was happening when you first became a mother? What was going on in your life? Oh, wow. I mean, I was pretty much, I guess, towards the tailer end of my career, but still very much at the high level. And again, I think, just grateful to

women who'd gone before me, who'd shown me that, yeah, you can have a family and have a career in athletics, and it's not impossible. It has been done. So, people like Liz McColgan, Sonja O'Sullivan, Ingrid Christensen, they'd gone through and had children and come back to competing at the top level. So, I knew that it was possible. I remember from a little girl before I kind of set those goals for within athletics and within my sport, I knew I wanted to be a mom. And I was very fixed as a little kid. I want to have a girl and a boy and it wants to be in that order. And that's where I kind of see my life going. I remember having the conversation with my mom, how do you know when it's the right time? Because in athletics, it's essentially more than a year out from your sport. It's not just you can work right up to and then you have

the baby and then you can get back. It is more than a year out. There isn't really a right time. I remember her saying, well, there isn't, but whatever time you do get pregnant, that will be the right time for you. That was the best advice that she could give me. Yeah, I just remember thinking, okay, I had an injury. I'd had to have surgery on a neuroma in my foot. Just thinking, okay, you know what? It could work maybe now. Why don't we just try?

It was like that. Let's try for a little bit. If it doesn't work, then we'll wait until after the next Olympic cycle and trying to plan it in that way. We were just extremely fortunate. And again, I think that was a great sign. Pretty much, first try happened. And then I was lucky enough to kind of be going through that learning curve of pregnancy

and returning from it. At the same time, extremely grateful that the sport I was in meant that I could return to work full-time, but still spend huge amounts of my day with Isla. Again, really lucky that my family and my husband's parents were really hands-on in terms of, yeah, we've now retired. We can come out and spend chunks away with you at altitude and get to spend time with our grandchild as well, but get to really support me. So that kind of really, really helped. And she kind of grew up in something that was normal for her. But probably when she went to school, she started realizing actually kind of what my parents do is not really normal. It's not what everybody else does.

is not really normal, it's not what everybody else does. And she kind of started putting things together that way. And she got a childhood that was probably unusual in terms of traveling and experience. I mean, she was 18 months old and she's in Beijing and she's basically sitting in restaurants grabbing handfuls of rice off people's plates and she just grew up. And so I think that's a big part of her outgoingness that she loves to travel now, she loves to try different foods and that you kind of see that reflected in, yeah, that was the way she grew up. She was traveling around all over. She has a very, very strong instinct of just by looking at someone she knows whether that's

someone she can talk to or not and whether they're a friendly person or not. But more than that, she can almost tell what language they're going to speak, which actually blows my mind that she can do that. Because she's grown up bilingual. They both have grown up bilingual. But I think because she was traveling so much, she developed that instinct of looking at someone and knowing, do I go and speak to them in French or in English, or are they not going to understand me at all? And she was able to kind of pull that together, which I kind

of have never got, even though I've studied languages. My son's got it a little bit, but not quite to the same level that she has. That's interesting. And how old were they when you moved to Monaco? Were either of them born there? Yeah, they were both born there. They were both born there, okay. Yeah. So they were both born in Monaco and have grown up here. But at this stage, Isla was a little bit older because she was born in 2007 and Rafa in 2010.

And so with her, she was doing at least half the year in the French Pyrenees, kind of in a crèche and then maténaire, which is like kindergarten type thing, with only other French kids. Whereas Raphael went through that with mixed nationalities. And that is another thing in its own right. But he would have, and they both have now, maybe 10, 11 different nationalities in their class at school. And while they're all conversing in French and they can all speak English, they all have different, slightly different perspectives on things, which I think at the same time, it's a really privileged environment they're growing up in, yes. But it's also a very balanced one and a very cosmopolitan one.

So the classic things that I remember at school where kids would get picked on because of what they might wear or what music they might listen to, that doesn't happen here because there is such a different wealth of things and kids can come to school dressed in so many different ways and listening to so many different genres of music and types of things that that kind of bullying that we obviously there is the normal childhood banter. But it doesn't happen for those like really banal reasons. Yeah, I've actually met a few grown-ups who've had sort of similar,

kind of international childhoods and they do have a kind of different perspective. My sister's husband is like that. It's like a slightly different style of education than when you've gone through the kind of classic school system that I went through. Maybe you did too. I know you did as well. Yeah. And how lovely to have bilingual. I think that is such a gift. I mean, I'm always just very jealous and impressed when people can speak more than one language. I think it's wonderful and it changes the way that your brain works for opening up to other languages as well. And it's just having that sort of easy going confidence about speaking in another language. I just think it's very glamorous but also very impressive. How did you, so you mentioned when, you know, Isla's a bubba and she's grabbing the rice and you're training.

So how did you find it for yourself, getting into the mindset to do your training and to get what you needed? Did it come quite naturally or is it a bit of a clunky finding yourself again? Afterwards, you mean. Yeah, I've heard your, yeah. And your son, I mean, I put, and you were being so, yourself again? Afterwards, you mean? Yeah, and your son. Yeah, you're still running. Yeah, I was still competing with him.

And then it was just a little bit more, had to be more planned in terms of the fact that when I went away for training periods after he was born, it was that little bit more difficult because she was supposed to be in school. So we kind of had to plan that different ways to try and make that work a little bit better and it was a bit harder for me, whereas with her we could just all go away together and there was no breaking up of the family unit. And so I think I found it pretty easy to get back into training after her because you kind of go through those emotions. So when I found out I was pregnant, then immediately

the priority becomes the baby being okay. And it's quite nice almost to have that step back from the intensity of, I've got to be pushing myself hard in each training session. But at the same time, there's also a big, like after I can remember doing workouts and sitting down and kind of having something to eat and just checking the kicks and things like that because that is the first priority. And those things are probably like every mom you get up in the night and you don't feel the baby kicking and then like, oh my goodness. So go and have something to eat, which then of course wakes you up and you can't get

back to sleep, but at least it's worth it to know that the baby's actually fine and kicking. And so going through all of those emotions and then when I got back to running and she was a really, really good, they both were, they both slept through the night very early. So that meant that- Wow, big bonus. It did mean that I got back into training almost a little bit too soon. And I'm also someone that when I'm happy that I train better and I kind of have more

energy to put into racing. And so I was very, very happy with both children. So that kind of meant that I got back into it a little bit too quickly. So I learned a lesson from the first, from coming back after Isla, that I didn't realize that the sacrum, which takes a lot of stress because your whole pelvic ring is relaxed and that bone is taking the stress. I thought I was being smart in cross training once a day and kind of getting back to a decent level of training, but didn't realize that the elliptical stresses your sacrum as much as running does.

And so I ended up with a stress fracture of the sacrum after her. So that kind of made me sit out for a little bit and then got back into competing. So I ended up, I think it was about nine, ten months before I got back to racing at the top level when I won New York. But that was so much of a kind of joy for me to get back to doing what I love doing with a healthy baby there at the end. It kind of felt like, yeah, this is as good as it gets because I'm back competing doing what I really want to do and she's really healthy and she's there now living a part of this and the family just felt really, really complete.

And then when Raph came along, it was a little bit different in terms of I got a postnatal hyperthyroidism. So basically I was losing too much weight and my heart rate would be too high during training sessions. Once they worked out what it was, the answer was then basically we don't know when it settles down. It just will drop back into normal and there's nothing that you can do, but you just have to be careful through that. I think it was about three weeks before the Berlin Marathon that things dropped back to

normal. I wasn't at my best when I was able to race there, but I was able to get back to doing that. Then again, things felt really, really good. Then I went through the trauma of getting ready for 2012 and then not being able to do it because my foot gave in. But I think if I hadn't have had that perspective of the kids, that would have been a hugely, hugely horrendous time to go through.

As it was, it was difficult and it was tough and it was the trauma of kind of my dreams and goals career-wise finishing. But I had all the rest of it. So it was really like, okay, you've got to put some perspective into all of this. And it really, really helped me to kind of get through that. And now it's kind of going full circle. Raf's getting really into running for the first time. Like, he wasn't really that bothered before.

And I love it. I love him kind of discovering those emotions and kind of in his own way and from his own perspective. But at the same time, I remember going through that, okay, a little bit younger, but I remember going through that and discovering, okay, this is what I want to do and this is what I love doing. And being able to share and teach those emotions to him and kind of help out a little bit, I think is really great. Definitely. And I love that image of you in the New York Marathon with your baby there and thinking it doesn't really get better. That must have been an incredible feeling.

And I wonder as well, when you do something for a living that is also your passion and it kind of is all the lines Are a little bit blurred Have you been good at Setting as setting your work in the space when you speak to the kids about it that gives it that importance I think sometimes if if basically you have to make a decision to go and do the things you're doing so for example You want to set these goals for yourself and do it. But if you decided I'm not going to do Boston and I'm not going to do Tokyo, that would be, you would feel that, but no one's, you're not going to have people

banging down your door going, but you said you do it's self-motivated. So sometimes kids can pick up on that and be like, well, you've, you don't have to do it. You could say no, you don't have to do it. You could say no. You could decide not to. So have you been good at giving it that space so that it's got the respect from the family without having to explain it? I don't know that I've been good at that, but I think they've been really good at realizing

that. Yes. realizing that. Yes, and I think they've seen me go through the, because I mean, it's, being a mom of a teenager is tough and they kind of, there's moments when they really don't want you there, but they actually do want you there. And it's really hard to kind of get that balance in there. It's like, and my daughter is really expressive with her feelings. So they'll kind of be door slammed in your face so much of the time. And then they'll be like, when I want to speak to you, you're not there. And I'm like, what about all the times when I tried to come into your room to talk to you and you don't want to, it's not the right time, but suddenly when you click your

fingers it has to be the right time. And I get it, but I need her to learn that as well, that, okay, you need to have that little bit of respect there because I am trying to be there. And I think they do see that. And at the same time, it's hard for them because they have had a mum who is there when they come home from school, is there a lot of time, but then will disappear for like weekends or championships when I'm working. And I think it has been probably harder for my son because he's just a boy and he just ... So he'll be like texting me when I'm working, sending me voice notes. I think it has been probably harder for my son because he's just a boy.

So he'll be texting me when I'm working, sending me voice notes. I'm like, Raff, if I'm commentating, I can't listen to a voice note. And especially if that voice note is, mom, give me screen time because I've run out of screen time. You need to turn the TV on and ask dad and see what I'm doing because I'm not going to be able to respond. And he just doesn't always get that. But it's not in a mean way. It's just in his not thinking.

No, no. They're just thinking about their own world. Thank you very much. Mom is just there for me whenever. And so I can just ring you up. And I kind of want them to have that. I want them to think, okay, you know what? Whenever something bad happens and you need me, I'm there no matter what. But you have to recognize there's a difference between screen time and something bad happening. Yeah. You need to work out that balance. I'm sorry. I I cannot reply to you.

I cannot listen to a voice note right now. But I do go through that because I had set myself a triple challenge this year and it was like Tokyo and then Boston and then doing an Icelandic trek, which was something I was really excited about to do with my friends. And it was a six, seven day trek across the glacier. I think I would have loved to do it, but there was a point in the spring there where I just thought, this is too much. I hadn't realized that her ILA's actual exams start the week after that.

While she doesn't need me there to help with the exams, she needs me there just to put food on the table and just to make sure that she's got clean clothes to wear and just to basically keep the peace and take all the other stressors away so she can focus on that. So at that point, I did have to say, okay, I don't like doing this because I'm letting people down and pulling out, but my family needs me more than that. And I'm already selfishly kind of doing these two challenges with the marathons, which also they're getting to be a part of as well. They're coming out to Boston with me, but something had to give. And so that

is something that had to be moved to another time. And I think that's what we all have to do. Parents, we don't get it right all the time. And I was stupidly taking on too much stuff for this year. But again, just really grateful that the team in that allowed me to kind of withdraw from that and let people down to be able to focus on this really important year because it's actually scary as a mum. Your child is going to go away and suddenly the family that was four is now going to be three. And well, I really hope she does keep coming back. It's kind of the end of an era in terms of permanently being at home. How do you feel about that?

That is a significant chapter, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's a little bit anxious and I get that she's excited to go on and I'm excited to see what she's going to do and I'm excited to see how she's growing into that young adult that can totally stand on her own two feet. But we will miss her and it won't just be us, it's going to have an impact on Rafael as well. And that kind of having his sister around, even if she's mean to him sometimes and they're fighting a lot of the time, it's still going to be a dynamic that changes. And I think we're all going to have to be flexible with that.

Yeah, but I get the impression you sound like a family that good at being open about how to evolve together and keep present with each other, which is, I think, that's kind of what you have to do, isn't it? Yeah. You know, from the moment they're born, you have to do this dance of the present and the, you know, the imagined future, the bits you're leaving behind. It starts from the, from, oh, you're now a week old, you know? Yeah. It's like, it just, that's the kind of, the constant thing of it.

And I think you have to just be able to like, try and find your peace with it, don't you? It's hard sometimes when you meet people and they, I don't know, talk a lot about when the kids were little and how they wish they'd done it differently or how golden it was or they missed that bit. And I just think, oh, that must be really tough, I think. You must have to make a conscious decision that, well, like for me anyway,

I just don't want to be like that. I have to. Yeah. No, I mean, I got asked a question in an interview the other day. It was like, which moment would you absolutely choose to keep going back to in your life with the children? You can't pick one because it's gone. Once you've lived it, it's gone and those memories are there, but there's something better or something just as good coming. And it's kind of, yeah, you just have to live it. I think maybe that's a slight perspective from sport, but I think it's just in life as well. I mean, you've got to live every minute and appreciate what you have done, and you can treasure those memories and go back to thinking about it, but you've got to be in the moment and looking

forward to what's in the future. Yeah, and I think so much of how we experience things is about the story we tell ourselves about how it works for us. And I think also if you don't always look back, that version of them doesn't exist anymore. And maybe a little bit of you does, because when you're an adult, the changes are slower. But when you're going through all the stages of growing up and reaching young adulthood, it's so vital to keep in step with who that person is now. That's how you keep in each other's world and keep communicative and hang out together

and have proper time together. If it's always like, oh, you know, we kind of, that version of you at like 12 was really sweet and now I, you know, I think it can be hard. If you kind of, the version of your kid that you kind of are harking back to is this version of them that is like, yeah, before they started developing all that. Well, I think also for them, it's like, if they get something right or wrong, there's no showing that they've got to be able to draw the learnings from that and use those going forward, not keep having you throwing back, oh, we used to do it differently. No, they have to learn that, yeah, okay, that's happened now, there's nothing I can do about it. It's

about how I make better use of those learnings going forward and how I make it better going forward. And I think that's kind of what I'm trying to say is that like everything, even last night, we had major, major meltdowns because my son is a huge, huge Liverpool fan. Oh, yes, I saw that. And yeah, there was a massive massive meltdown last night because they didn't go further in the Champions League. They went back on penalties right? Yeah and he was just like kicking stuff and really really upset and it's not fair it's not fair and I'm like you know what at the same time his dad really doesn't get

football either so he's like well I don't it's not even you it's not even you playing so why do you just get on with it just move on it's just a bunch of men kicking a ball around. That's really not helping. Can you please go to the other room? Trying to balance and get him to see that. I'm just trying to say to him, you know what? Sometimes life isn't fair. And yeah, I can give you the whole things happen for a reason and there might be, but there might not be a reason that this happened. It's just rubbish and it happened and you kind of just have to process it, deal with the fact that you're disappointed but if you're disappointed imagine how those players feel. Yeah, I like that. And kind of go forward with that and

sometimes life just happens like that and you're gonna have to deal with things that might be a lot more personal to you that are equally bad going forward and you're gonna to have to get the tools to be able to deal with that without kicking hell out of the sofa. I like the idea of Gary talking to a load of disappointed football fans going, it's not even you. Why are you doing it? Please don't go to a stadium and say that. I think that would really soothe everybody. They'd immediately, are you right? I haven't thought of it like that.

Feel alright about it now. Yeah, empathy is not a strong point. Well, Paula, thank you so much for talking to me. I think you also thank Isla for me, because it's such a lovely thing to hear a bit from how she experienced it too. So, tell her thank you, tell her good luck for the marathon. She would have loved to have met you. Well Well one day we will definitely meet in real life. And no I'd like that too and tell her I'll be thinking of her for London as well.

And thinking of you for Boston. Are you running today? Do you run every day at the moment? Well yeah I try and do something each day. I'm kind of managing my foot a little bit. So I ran a little bit long yesterday, so it will be a shorter run or a cross-training thing today. And yeah, trying to balance that. And that's also very different because it was very full on like twice a day, absolutely giving it everything. And now I'm kind of thinking, okay, you actually probably could train a little bit harder,

but there isn't really much point because it's just going to break the foot down. So I'm just kind of doing it for enjoyment and some of them are social runs, which is nice. I get to just go and run with friends and catch up. And you're running through beautiful Monaco. Do you get to see the sea when you're running? Yeah, I'm actually just outside of Monaco, so I come to run in the parks behind, which is great because I have the mountains on one side and the sea on the other side. And at the same time can sometimes see no one for the entire

run and just kind of be in my own world and my own thoughts. And I think, yeah, that's really important sometimes just to kind of ground you and then think, right, okay, now go back into the madness that is normal everyday life. Yeah, it sounds like you planned a lot of things really smartly, like live somewhere beautiful, do the thing you love. I actually even bothered to check your weather forecast, it's going to be a really nice weekend. Just saying. Thankfully because it's my only weekend at home. Oh really? Yeah. Well it's like 16 degrees and sunshine. Oh nice, nice. It's not the case in London but I'll be thinking. Sorry. Oh, I see. What a gorgeous woman. What a lovely conversation. And congratulations to Paula on just completing the Boston Marathon. That is absolutely impressive. And I also want

to wish all the best to her daughter who's, well, I speak to you in the past. So at the moment, Ida has not run the London Marathon. It's happening this weekend. And I just really, really hope that everything went for you, Ida. I'm sure it was absolutely brilliant. And yeah, it was also lovely to speak about Raf as well, your son, Paula.

I feel like I can really picture that year of 2020 and all the turbulence of what was going on but the closeness of the family and all the communication that was going on throughout all that time. What an incredibly tough time that was but look how it's also spurned into something where Isla's now running the marathon for Children in County UK. So you know it's turned into something that's that's a positive and I think that's testament to the way that Paula and her family view things. Yeah I'm super super happy to be back thank you so much to Paula and yes I'm sure you can go and check out all of her London Marathon

podcast with a lead-up and it will give you lots of advice if you're a runner. I mean golly it's such an addictive thing isn't it? I can see it my brother London Marathon podcast, I'm going to lead up, and it will give you lots of advice if you're a runner. I mean, golly, it's such an addictive thing, isn't it? I can see it in my brother, he absolutely adores it. And it's just, yeah, for him, I know that he was actually the one who was like, when people talk about running, sometimes they talk about the tough stuff,

can you also share the fact that it can be really positive, too, and I think that's exactly what Paula's all about, too, that's her relationship with it. Good stuff! Yeah, I'm looking forward to being back in London. I have had a very, you know, cute little trip in Singapore. I had a gig last night, I've got another gig tomorrow night and this has been a day off, which is unusual to have a day off in the middle of two shows like that but I've done lots of exploring but I do want to come home I've managed to plan this not so well my shows meant I missed not one but two birthdays back home and now have a newly 13 year old Ray and a

21 year old Sonny so when I get back I'm hoping we can catch up with all of that and hopefully they'll show me some cake actually because I just did a FaceTime with them in there in the garden eating cake and it looked really nice so yeah I'll have some of that on Sunday thanks. Alright have a lovely week I'll be back next week with another one and thanks so much for finding me again here. Best Love. I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better

I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better