Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 162: Anya Lautenbach

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Anya Lautenbach is a gardener who I discovered on Instagram as anya_thegarden_fairy. From Poland originally, Anya moved to to the UK 17 years ago and has two boys aged 12 and 14. We talked about ...the grief which Anya has experienced because of her sister having two sons with a rare genetic condition which turned out to be terminal. Anya explained how every time she had bad news from home, she turned that into another garden border and has ended up creating a beautiful garden out of her ocean of grief. We also talked about her ADHD diagnosis which came soon after her son’s diagnosis, and how gardening helps her to escape the overwhelming busyness of her mind. Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, I'm Sophia Lusbexter and welcome to spinning plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates.
Starting point is 00:00:35 Good day. I am speaking to you from Naimchen. This is a really pretty city in the Netherlands. And I've never been here before, so I've had a little wander around. I just like being in the Netherlands. It's so nice. and everybody's so articulate in Dutch and in English.
Starting point is 00:00:59 It's super impressive. And, yeah, life just kind of works here. Everybody's whizzing around on bikes. It'll look pretty happy and well. Had a good coffee. Walk past a cat cafe. Any place that has a cat cafe is good by me. Last night we played the Paradiso in Amsterdam.
Starting point is 00:01:20 It was the first on the tour to sell out, which had particular residence for me because it's also the first place I ever did a gig outside the UK when I was 18 and we came over as part of something called London Calling. Sorry, I'm a little bit out of breath because I'm walking up an incline. Maybe not the best time to press record. There we have it. So it's a beautiful venue.
Starting point is 00:01:44 It's really famous, actually. I've had this glorious very Friday night crowd. And tonight is Saturday night here in Nymeik. hoping for a similar vibe, to be honest with you. It's a nice venue. I just bought a shirt in a vintage shop, and the lady there said that the woman who does the cooking at the venue tonight, who will be having our supper,
Starting point is 00:02:09 has got a cookbook out, so I'm feeling quite excited about that. Because that sounds tasty, thank you. Anyway, yeah, we're how many dates in? Four, four shows in. Paris, Zurich, Milan, and Amsterdam. All really, really brilliant. So if you've been one of the people who came, thank you so much. It's been really good.
Starting point is 00:02:29 And, yes, this week's guest. So I'm trying to remember how I first came across Anya. I'm not actually sure. I feel like I've been following her for ages. She often live streams on Instagram while she's doing her gardening. And I think I'm not a gardener. I'm actually terrible. with growing plants, but firstly, I love the idea of being good at it.
Starting point is 00:02:59 Secondly, what I like about Anya is that gardening for her is a way to process so many things, partially her ADHD mind and how she sees the world, it gives her a sense of calm and obviously the focus, the famous superpower. And she's also very good at communicating that grief about change she moved to the UK from Poland
Starting point is 00:03:28 17 years ago and now has two sons who are 12 and 14 I believe and I'm always a bit fascinated when people have are raising their kids in a country that's different to where they grew up because so much of what I've done with my kids is such
Starting point is 00:03:44 an overlap of what is familiar to me and I don't really know how it feel to do it so differently Plus, when Ania was growing her beautiful garden, she was dealing with grief. Her sister had such an awful time of her with her babies, which were both born with the same genetic, life-limiting, abnormality of their cells. So, you know, awful. I can't even imagine what that must have felt like, what that must feel like.
Starting point is 00:04:20 isn't it? So, yeah, she poured her grief, her emotions, gave herself space, mental space and a place to let those feelings come and go whilst planting the garden. And she speaks about it so articulately. It was so nice to have Anya come over, although, again, I know you're probably bored of me saying this at the start of my interviews, but I really did feel like I already knew her because sometimes when she's doing a live stream, if I join, she'll say hello to me. And she did it the day before she came over, including talking about how long she thinks it'll take for us to get her to get to me. She's very sweet. Made me giggle. Anyway, Anya's lovely. She's led a very interesting, she leads a very interesting life. And it was glorious to
Starting point is 00:05:11 speak to her about it. And yeah, I will see you on the other side. I'm now up the incline. Thank you for joining me here in Nymegan. Here is Glorious Anna. Well, first, it's so nice to meet you, Anya. And I have to tell you, I had one of my favorite moments of my weekend. It was yesterday when I was watching your live stream on Instagram
Starting point is 00:05:47 and you started talking to me directly. I was doing some watching out at the time. And you were saying, hello, Sophie. I just wanted to let you know. I've checked the sat nav. It's going to take me about half an hour to get to you. So I won't have been here one. It was so sweet.
Starting point is 00:06:01 I really felt like, this is great. We're going to get on fine because I'm already, we're already chatting now. You couldn't hear me, but I was replying back in my head. Like, yeah, great, okay, see you then. but when you're talking about your relationship with what has become your livelihood as well your relationship with your garden you are so beautifully positive about what it gives you why don't we start by talking about the projects you've got on at the moment because I think you've got your is your third book yes my my third book is coming out soon in January so that
Starting point is 00:06:35 was my latest latest project and this one is about containers this is just containers but But it's all about making pretty spaces, you know, gardens accessible for everyone. Yes, because I suppose everybody can have access to, I mean, we have, I think the Vogue has come back to having indoor plants. And I grew up as a child of the 80s and there was definitely plants then. Then it went away for a little bit and now it's become right back. And I suppose lockdown as well has encouraged our relationship with nature. Yes.
Starting point is 00:07:05 And, you know, for me, you know, I know it sounds like I'm the most positive person and my videos are so calm and my whole social media, but the reality behind the scenes, as you will know as well, is completely the opposite. And I guess, you know, I'm kind of escaping into the positivity and that allows me to recharge. So the plants and talking about flowers and being creative and also bringing that positivity into this world, you know, a crazy world. So it's, it just allows me to live kind of more balanced life. And does it surprise, I mean, first of all I have to say, it's astonishing because the books, do you write them in English when you're writing? Yes, I do. When did you start learning English or did you learn it from a
Starting point is 00:07:50 child? No, you know, it's actually quite recently that I actually came to this country 17 years ago and when I arrived, someone asked me, how was your journey and I couldn't answer because I just simply couldn't understand. And it was so embarrassing and, you know, quite humiliating the first three years because I was fluent in German but I came here to learn English and when my publisher approached me with my first book and they said we've been watching you for a while and we like your style and how you put things in the simplicity of explaining things and they said would you write a book and I said well yeah but how many words do you need because I don't even know if I know that many English words and then I said to my husband you can surely repeat some like end and
Starting point is 00:08:37 So, yeah, I think it surprises me as well, you know, how my, and this is, I'm pretty sure it's my ADHD. You know, my brain just absorbs information on a slightly different level, and that allows me, you know, to write. So far, I've written three books. Which is incredible. And I love the fact that you considered vocabulary because there are so many authors out there, I'm sure, don't pay any mind if they've got a small vocabulary. So I love the fact, you mean, your vocabulary is immense. You also know the names of all the plants that beyond anything I would know about. But just for the chronology, so what was happening, you were living in the UK when you had your children,
Starting point is 00:09:12 but what were you working, what was your job? So your children are now nearly 12 and 14. Yes. So my background is sales and business development, but I was always very creative. And, you know, my job, my professional life always played a massive role. You know, it's just, you know, your self-esteem, you feel like you've got this little world that gives you buzz. you know, you're developing something, you create something, you make something outside your family world. So when I've given up my job at some point, I found it very difficult to
Starting point is 00:09:48 juggle, you know, and later when I was diagnosed with ADHD, I realized that that is probably one of the reasons, you know, to manage everything, to remember everything. And as I was getting older, you know, it became even more complicated. So I've given up my job. And I said, still remember sitting at the bottom of the stairs as my husband was leaving for work and when he closed the door I was in tears because I have just given up my identity and you know even though I love my children like we all moms you know they are our priority but if we don't fill our cups as professional women or you know creators or whatever we do what gives us that buzz we just feel so empty and that was my um that was basically you know looking for something to make me feel like
Starting point is 00:10:41 i am full and i'm ready to give more to my family and other people and it's interesting we're talking about with the the feeling of like um feeling empty like that and like losing your identity am i right in thinking this is when your children were very little yes yes and i you know there was something else that i i was struggling mentally like a big style because um So when I came to this country, I've got a sister, there's only one sister. And when I got pregnant, my sister got pregnant at the same time, so it was just very exciting. You know, I come from a single parent family, so my mom was over the moon, that we finally, you know, things are more exciting, and we will have two children. We were expecting boys, and it was just all very exciting.
Starting point is 00:11:29 But what has happened with my sister, her son was born with very severely, not disabled, but he had a very, very rare genetic condition, which gradually, initially we didn't know, but gradually we realized that it's terminal. And in that time, I think it was not only my own, you know, being in a foreign country. You know, Poland is my home, really. but juggling, you know, so many things and the emotions, you know, the grief and loss. So in the seven years when I was, you know, I've given up my job, I had the two boys and my sister lost both of our boys. And that was, you know, I talk about it openly.
Starting point is 00:12:19 My sister knows that I share the story because we can inspire other women, you know. there are so many things that as women we hide from the world, you know, we pretend, we smile. I had the biggest smile. You know, when you look at my pictures from that time, I had the biggest smile on earth because I just wanted to stay sane for my kids, you know, stay strong. But deep down, I was completely broken. And that now I understand how creating of a garden, because it was a bit of a bit of a garden, because it was a bit escaping from the sadness, you know, trauma, really.
Starting point is 00:12:59 So when I remember coming home here to England after they passed away, and I was traumatized and, you know, the juggled, the emotions. And as women, we just carry so much responsibility, you know. Well, that's also, firstly, I'm so sorry for your family. That is heartbreaking, the idea of all of those imagined events that will happen when these babies arrive and then adjusting to the severity of what was actually happening. I can't even imagine. And the cruelty of you having your own baby and seeing them hitting the milestones
Starting point is 00:13:42 and understanding that your sister is going through a very different story, that's incredibly complicated. that's a lot of emotions for you to navigate daily, minute by minute. Did it make it hard to celebrate what was happening with your babies? Yes, totally. So these are all the new emotions that nobody prepares you for, you know, the kind of unexplained guilt and, you know, almost like when we all have something that cheers us up and we all have, you know, people would.
Starting point is 00:14:18 say you, but you had two healthy children and that was the positive bit of your life, but actually in reality, that was the most difficult bit because, you know, as they were thriving, you know, I had the perfect life in a beautiful English countryside with two healthy, perfect, you know, happy little boys. And again, as a woman, you know, to carry that responsibility for the the kids and you know managing everything else around me but deep down just you know being broken um that was probably the hardest bit it's now all you know we processed it um i feel like i'm healed um and that mainly through gardening that's why probably what i share comes from a real and very deep place in my heart yes i can hear i can hear that when you whenever you speak about it
Starting point is 00:15:14 When I said before about your positivity, the message that you always impart is about how important it is to find those moments. And I suppose, it's funny, I just spoke to a grief counsellor for the podcast last week called Julia Samuel. And she speaks about the importance of, basically, I suppose the human, the necessity for us to be able to allow and process change. So grief is a huge traumatic beast. Well, not always traumatic, but grief is a huge symbol of what you've lost. But on daily, we have to be able to accept change. And I suppose in a very real sense with gardening and plants, it changes the
Starting point is 00:16:14 essence of what is happening there. Yes, I think it helps you to embrace, you know, because I, when I'm in the garden, I have learned so much from nature just to come to terms with things. And, you know, sometimes people say to me, you know, oh, my plant has died. And I said, that's just part of this existence, this world, you know, and with grief the same. And it doesn't have to mean that you lose people. Grief can be for, you know, a relationship breaks down. You know, I get hundreds of messages from women, you know, most of my followers are women. And of course, we will all experience some level of grief, whether that is losing someone or, you know, your relationship breaks down or even selling a house. You know, if you live in a big house,
Starting point is 00:17:02 lovely house, loads of memories, and you have to move on for whatever reason, there is a certain level of grief. And instead of escaping from it, we have to embrace it, almost like walking through, you know, those waves. I always say to people, you know, grief is like an ocean. It's like it never stops. You live with it. Sometimes it happens in the background. You know, the waves are very calm and you always hear the waves because there will always be something that will remind you of that. Now, if you only focus on that negativity and this sadness, your whole life will be a disaster. So it's best to embrace the fact that those feelings, feelings also exist, and just make the best and the most out of it and turn those feelings
Starting point is 00:17:51 into some sort of positivity, whether it's you create, like you create music, I create videos and write books, someone else, and it doesn't have to be on a large scale, it can be just at home, just creating something. And just processing, without even knowing, you know, processing those big feelings. Yeah, and I suppose if you're, engaged in the business of growing your plants and propagating and nurturing, you're allowing all the thoughts to come and go. They can flow through you like a medium because you're in the process of a doing and you're seeing the effect of what you're doing,
Starting point is 00:18:32 but you're also just sometimes just sitting in that moment as well. And it's solitary, I'd imagine. Are you spending a lot of time on your own? Yes, and again, going back to my ADHD, my brain is so busy I honestly sometimes feel overwhelmed even with a positive you know I said even the positive emotions
Starting point is 00:18:51 you know I'm buzzing and you know and that is exhausting as well when you get a chance as a person with ADHD if you ever get a chance to not to think about anything else this feels like you've been to a spat twice
Starting point is 00:19:06 it's just amazing you know like not thinking about what will we do tomorrow what have I done yes today and what will the kids have for dinner? Just nothing. And that just feels amazing. So when did you get your ADHD diagnosis? This was in adulthood quite often. So my son was diagnosed with ADHD first. He's got dyslexia and ADHD. And you know, it's quite often the case that as moms, we watch our kids and we think, oh my God, that's real terrible and what is he doing? And
Starting point is 00:19:39 then you realize, oh my God, this is me. This was me when I was his age. And as soon as he was diagnosed, I just went and I said, I think I've got ADHD. And I still remember the test when they sat me down and they measure your movements. And they showed me the result and said, this is the neurotypical person's results and this is yours. And it basically looked like I've been doing some yoga in front of the computer or some, you know, crazy movements. So that was my almost like another chapter, you know, in mind. Would you be able to describe me a little bit about what it is for you to have ADHD? I don't think my mind is wide in the same way, so I'd love to understand a bit better.
Starting point is 00:20:27 Well, I think, you know, as children, it manifests in so many different ways, you know, so I'm very, very energetic. You know, I never really stop. loads and loads of things that happen in my mind, which means that if you're not aware of your ADHD, like in my case, I now understand, I get easily destructed. So, you know, houses of people with ADHD can be chaos because we get easily destructed. So if you've got a task, you know, a list of things to do, I would have 20 tasks. You know, the washing baskets wouldn't be done. and the kids will be all over the place, you know, it can turn into chaos.
Starting point is 00:21:10 And what that means is that you always feel dissatisfied with your life because nothing is done, you know, there is not enough dopamine in your brain. So you don't feel the same level of positivity than the neurotypical people. There are loads of other things, you know, we feel very deeply. So if something, you know, something isn't right, you know, level of injustice can be like, so painful and so many different things that make your life really difficult and when you get your diagnosis you start understanding and you can get help you're more aware of it you know you can take medication i'm sometimes on medication sometimes not it allows me to focus and finish my tasks
Starting point is 00:21:58 and at the end of the day i feel happy well i really appreciate you describing it for because we have some neurodiversity in this household as well. And I'm quite familiar with the sort of checklist for looking for my children. But I think in adulthood, I haven't had as many conversations, actually. And I do think that I have met people who have done a bit of self-diagnosis, but actually speaking to someone who clearly is so really found what, it's so significant to get the diagnosis. and they've spoken on other interviews as well
Starting point is 00:22:36 about what it meant to you to actually be able to understand and get a handle rather than just sort of trying to join dots by yourself. Yeah. So do you think that your relationship with gardening would be significant, even if it hadn't played such a key role in processing grief as well?
Starting point is 00:22:55 I think I would always, you know, I grew up surrounded by people who loved plants. So, you know, even before I had kids, I always traveled with plants, you know, wherever I went. I remember it was my mom. So I left home at 19, and I remember feeling so, you know, homesick. And I found my mom in tears. And she said, Anya, remember, your home is where your plants grow.
Starting point is 00:23:22 Oh. And that was, you know, even now when I have moments and, you know, that could be linked to my ADHD that I feel like I'm not fitting in or I'm not at home or, you know, when you leave your own country, even, you know, my husband is from Durham and when he goes back to Durham, he says, actually Durham doesn't feel like home anymore and for me, this is really my home, but actually it
Starting point is 00:23:43 really isn't and Poland is not my home. But then when I think about this sentence, your home is where your plants grow and that can be just as simple as one house plant. That makes you feel grounded, that makes you feel like you belong and this can be just in the tiniest flat
Starting point is 00:24:00 in central London where you might have a moment like not belonging but this one plant can change your life I love everything about that I like it as a literal and I like it as an emotional as well
Starting point is 00:24:14 because I think obviously there's so many metaphors that come out of seeing a garden grow I use it all the time as a way of referring to things actually often when it comes to parenting or family life
Starting point is 00:24:29 as well and what's it like to raise children in country that is not the place where you were born and hear them speaking presumably they haven't have they got any of your polish accent in there no they you know i tried to raise them um bilingual um and at some point william said you know stop talking polish to me and you know it was it was difficult because my my husband is british and the whole family you know all friends were british so i found it very difficult to sit in the room of british people and speak my own language which sometimes i regret because I also speak German, so it's nice to speak different languages, but it kind of happened.
Starting point is 00:25:10 It wasn't the easiest journey, you know, and quite often people don't realize, you know, when you're foreign, it takes a long time to actually make friends, because we, as humans, we like people like us. You know, you like, if you would choose between me and maybe a British woman as a friend, you probably feel more comfortable with a British woman because, or just in general I had this kind of, you know, experience that I had to try so hard, you know, to make my kids being included in, you know, play dates and things. So it was exhausting. And quite frankly, I feel so, I think it's liberating that I no longer have to make those, you know, it's so much effort and I can just live my life and kids are happy.
Starting point is 00:26:01 But it wasn't, it wasn't easy. And how long do you think it took you to feel? Because it sounds like you can really see it now. It's all in the past tense. So that feeling, I mean, I suppose when they're all, when they're little and you're, I mean, it pushes you together with people as well. Yes. It can be quite a strange experience getting to know other parents at the school gate anyway,
Starting point is 00:26:20 let alone without, as you say, that it's such a human instinct to compare notes and to be related in all those sort of shorthand ways we do, you know, the getting to know. you chat, which is usually quite often to do with, yeah, being, like, where did you grow up, like, you know, in the area, all those things. Yeah, I think, you know, 10 years, I mean, 10 years of that was, you know, it was quite painful and actually quite exhausting, because especially if you have other things that you are interested in, you know, I was never really the kind of play groups, kind of, you know,
Starting point is 00:26:52 I mean, I enjoyed it to a certain degree and I would always have my house, you know, my house would always be full of people, because this way, at least, you know, people could drop off their kids and, you know, my kids had a play date. But for me, it wasn't really what I was, you know, I wasn't, like, fulfilled, you know. So later when I started writing and I'm creating content, I just felt like, oh, I found myself again. And so just to get the comment, and so just to get the chronology, when you started with your, with that writing and the social content, when was that in comparison to be, were you working still with your other job at the time? No, I think at that time I was at home and, do you know, it was actually when I realized
Starting point is 00:27:48 what I have achieved on my mental level, you know, when I processed the whole grief and when I processed all the events of the past and that was exactly in 2019 and I realized I just created a garden you know I created a large garden large country garden by growing plants from seeds and cuttings
Starting point is 00:28:13 because you had a lot this is in the house you're in now yes because you said that when you got the house which is in a very beautiful very green part of the UK as well it had a big garden but nothing happening there
Starting point is 00:28:24 absolutely no, you know, no plants. The house was developed by, I guess, some, you know, property developers that hated plants because they got rid of every single one. So they'd actually remove things as well. It was just a complete blank. It was just blank canvas. And in a way, you know, it was quite overwhelming and people often feel overwhelmed with their outdoor spaces and don't maximize, you know, because even on a smaller scale, you can create something truly magical. And, yeah, I have, honestly, sometimes, sometimes I even wonder if there was a bit of magic involved, you know, because when you look at my garden now, and I go to the most amazing places, you know, I created a large garden for the RHS Hampton Court last year. And, you know, I know what pretty gardens look like, especially in this country. And now looking at my own garden, I think, wow, how did that happen? You know, was that the feel, was that the sadness that helped? me, it was almost like turning every sadness into another herbaceous border.
Starting point is 00:29:32 Another bad message from home, I would turn into an orchard. There would be another bad news and I would make a wildflower meadow. And gradually, you know, even now, when I look at the garden, I remember the phone calls, I remember the news, you know, I remember the messages that broke me to a level I can't even describe. And then I would just put the phone down, take a spade, you know, put my, my first son was very small, so I would put him in a little swing. I didn't even have social media back then and, you know, now I'm surrounded by, you know, thousands of people, but back then it was just the garden and I, you know? That's very moving. I love your description of every
Starting point is 00:30:22 time there was another bit of bad news there would be another herbaceous border it's um there's something so pure about that relationship between your emotions and an instinct to lose yourself in the process of something that would one day show growth and bloom again it's like it's very poetic as an idea but i also think i can also see the the sadness in it and the reality of it and how it's beautiful when it looks beautiful, but there's also dirt and soil and really working against areas that haven't seen new life and aren't growing growth and having to put that in there. I can really feel all of that when you speak about it. But that's what people need to understand. And, you know, I reach the point. I think that, you know, I see beyond the little things that we care about, you know,
Starting point is 00:31:15 when people say, oh, how many followers have you got? How many books have you sold? I don't care. You know, what I care mostly, and it really, I mean it, I would like to leave behind something meaningful, you know, because how pointless it would be of me to just leave all the, you know, the sadness that happened to my family and the sadness that I have experienced if I would just leave without leaving anything positive. At least, I feel, you know, the more books I write, the more people get inspired. And do you know, Sophie, so many people from, all sorts of places around the world, veterans, doctors, people who lost the loved ones, get in touch with me and say, I have created a lavender hedge based on the story,
Starting point is 00:32:03 you know, how I turned the sadness into a lavender hedge. And it just makes my life more purposeful. I can see that. And actually, I was looking at some of your posts over the weekend and I was looking at the comments and I could see that so many of the comments of people saying, I lost my daughter, I lost my partner, and I was just thinking it's such a, I think there's such an instinct to do something that's close to home, that's introverted, that gives you your own control. You haven't even spoken about that really, but there is an element of that as well. It's something you can curate, and it will involve time, and it will involve elements,
Starting point is 00:32:45 you know, coming together. So it was 2019 when you started, that's when you moved into your house, but also when you were, when your sister was going through, think, that was, yeah, 2012, no, 2011, that was when my son was born and her first son was born. By 2019, she lost both of them. And so they were gone. My kids were, what, eight, I think, and six. And 2019 was the moment where I actually stopped. I realized that I have created a garden. In fact, I took one picture, and in the wintertime, I usually went through things, you know, looking at some pictures from the summer, and I just thought, oh, my God, I have created a garden, like really looking like a garden. And I said, I thought, I must do something, you know, something to inspire people. So initially, in 2019, when I set up my social media account, I was sharing just little videos and pictures with,
Starting point is 00:33:47 school moms, you know, I used to run gardening clubs for local schools and raising money for them. Again, just, I also realized that in that time, 2019, when I set up my social media, the more I have given to the society, the more I have given to other people, the more meaningful and more positive my life became, you know, and almost like double happiness so that you give something and it comes, you don't have to. announce it, you don't have to tell anyone, but it just comes in like buckets of happiness. And in 2019, when I started sharing my social media content, you know, some days I would gain 30,000 followers from, you know, and that gradually grew from just friends and family
Starting point is 00:34:37 to, you know, wider audience. And that's how it all started. And then it becomes this big community. They do actually say that a way to feel better and to help your mental health is to engage in a purpose bigger than your own, you know? And I do think there's such an amazing strength that you can draw just from when other people are open and sharing their stories. You know, it's like you said at the beginning of our chat about how women can carry so much. But when we have the opportunity to open up and share sharing it, then you, you can, you can. imbue strength from other people as well. Totally.
Starting point is 00:35:15 It's like a good stage of humanity, I think, to have all that goodness and those stories and that empathy, but also the kindness that comes out of it as well when people have really been through things. And also, you know, we have to make it, I think, you know,
Starting point is 00:35:33 we're making some things too complicated in this world, you know? I mean, when I read instructions, I'm lost after five seconds. You know, everything is so complicated. everything is so over the top where I, and might be because of my brain and because I get so bored of things, you know, if you make instructions complicated, nobody's going to read it. If you make gardening, like, you know, you add a few Latin words, which nobody really needs, you know, and I tell you, you can create the most amazing garden without knowing one single plant because it's, it's, it's, you feel the plant, you watch, you, you don't need to know their Latin names and people often get discouraged, you know, because they think, oh, I need this whole equipment. You don't need any equipment.
Starting point is 00:36:14 People have done this for centuries. They used to use sticks just as I do now. And actually, you can create almost like award-winning gardens without all of that nonsense. So did you ever have any sort of structured introduction to gardening or did it just come from starting with plants and things you found around you when you were little and be interested in what happens next? Yeah, absolutely. Just me. And I think everybody has that ability because we are so connected with nature, with the soil.
Starting point is 00:36:46 You know, we just, I sometimes feel like I'm just part of the ecosystem, like one of the plants, really. It sounds a bit like a sort of a humanist way to think about the planet as well. Yes. It's about, you know, who else you're sharing, who and what else we are sharing our experience with here. And I suppose it's an obvious question, but I'm still interested to know. your kids are all interested in growing plants? They used to, but I find, you know, with boys and you have boys so you will know,
Starting point is 00:37:15 you know, there is a very short window of opportunities to actually plant the little seeds of positivity in their hearts, you know, because now my son is 14 and, you know, they almost, you know, the currency at schools is sports and, you know, other things. My son, you know, loves music and the other one is quite creative. so they don't really want to tell their friends that this is a lovely foxglove and look at them, you know. Isn't it sad, though, that that kind of does lose its way for a while? But they only walk away for a very short time.
Starting point is 00:37:48 You know, they've done, so I've done my bid. So they grew up in the garden. They ate more rocks and stones and, you know, the most kids. So they will return. And I think we all have to do our bid when the kids are little, you know, even tell them things, you know. tell them about the insects and the birds and butterflies and everything else, you know, growing things, but later let them go, let them do their bit and they return because once they
Starting point is 00:38:16 have their own kids or even if they don't, they will maybe have a house and they get a house plant. But they will, you know, I remember what my parents used to tell me when I was a little girl, you know, that your home is where your plants grow. I'm now nearly 50 and I will pass on this message to the next generation. So plant the seeds of positivity as soon as they start growing. It's true. It's true. And I think actually, I mean, I'm a London girl, but luckily London's quite a green city. And I've, you know, all the kids are raised in London too. But when we go, I mean, they get a little bit of around where we live. We're lucky enough to have a garden. We've got a green opposite the garden. But when we go to the countryside, which I'm a
Starting point is 00:39:01 husband grow up. It's almost like they go into a different setting and they get really quite, it's lovely, like they'll go off and be sort of like making little wigwams in the trees and getting sticks and playing games and letting their imagination run riot and just enjoying being out and about. And I think, oh, I always feel a bit guilty then because I think, oh, they make a lot of sense in the wide open space. And actually my 16-year-old when he finally, poor thing, got his own room.
Starting point is 00:39:27 He didn't have his own room, so he was 14, which is quite a long time to have spent sharing with two little brothers and I got him plants to put in his room and he managed to keep it alive it's so forth a year, over a year and I'm like, great, maybe you have got a little bit of that in you. It's been nice to have a plant in there, I think. Yes, I think as you just said earlier, you know, it's the being in control and, you know, having pets is great. I love my house, it's full of pets, but not everybody can have a pet. So a plant is a great kind of substitute, you know, because it's still a living kind of organism, but it gives you that, you know, being in control is what plants give you, I find. You know, so when the whole world is collapsing around
Starting point is 00:40:05 me, I know that I am in control. And it means progress. It means new life. It means development. And that is, you know, for teenagers, for everybody, you know, because it grows. There's something happening. And, you know, you can even benefit from growing it on a windowsill. Yeah. So that's the best thing about it. I did wonder, though, because obviously you've been incredibly successful with growing your community, but also with your knowledge. And you mentioned that everybody needs to know the Latin names, but is there any kind of hierarchy within the sort of commercial gardening aspect? Because we definitely still have the garden show element,
Starting point is 00:40:46 the world that would sort of dictate a certain type of person growing certain types of things. Yes. Yes. I mean, you know, you're going to edit it. Yes, definitely. I mean, you know, I was very lucky than, that obviously my publisher has put me in touch with so many amazing people. And there is a lot of, you know, people are very open to new things, you know. So I'm obviously, I grew up in a different environment to all the RHS people, let's say. And, you know, they all know that I'm only a self-taught. And actually, I don't even call myself a gardener, you know, I'm just a hobby gardener.
Starting point is 00:41:18 But people are more inclusive. You know, I got asked by the Royal Windsor Rose and Horticultural Society, which is actually one of the oldest shows in the country set up by Queen Victoria 17 years ago and they got in touch and said, would you become our ambassador, which was incredible because, you know, I come from a different background and so I met the king a few weeks ago and, you know, it was incredible because it shows you how the world is changing. You know, if I would be 10 years ago, maybe coming to those places, they may not have seen the potential where now a lot of people can see the benefits of being inclusive because
Starting point is 00:42:05 that creates peace in the world. If we exclude people based on the color of the skin, their background, it upsets people and they start, you know, creating trouble. It's good that they're changing. I agree. And the same, you know, the RHS, I had this garden last year. It was the main RHS Garden and everybody obviously knows that I am not British, everybody can hear it, even if I breathe, they know I'm not British. But it's lovely that the world is changing and the Royal Horticultural Society or, you know, they see the potential because we bring new things, you know. Yeah. We learn differently. We bring new audiences. This is the thing. Well, I think the fact that we now have, you know, the way that people get their access is that information, like social media
Starting point is 00:42:58 communities, it speaks for itself. Yeah. And as you say, it's positive and it's about inclusivity, but also about access, so that people feel like this is something I could do. I could get involved there. That could bring me joy. That could be a part of my world. And that builds confidence. And it's all rooted in something so positive in that respect as well. And as you say, the legacy of leaving everything a little bit better than you found it. keeping an eye on nature around you, fighting to maintain those bases. I did want to ask you, you said that your children
Starting point is 00:43:31 are not bilingual in the way you imagine, but how do you bring a bit of Poland to Marlowe to your world? How do they feel the resonance of that? I think, you know, I definitely live in a very Eastern European way. You know, my kids can probably see I'm a little bit more open. You know, I mean, there's obviously lots of people who are like that, but yeah, there is just the way of living, you know. People from Eastern Europe are slightly different and I guess the way of living, you know, but yeah, that's the only thing, you know, and a food, you know, sometimes I cook some Polish food and we go to a Polish shop and, you know, so that's the... I'm smiling at the mention of Polish food because I do really...
Starting point is 00:44:21 really love Polish cuisine a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I know when I went, the last time I went to Warsaw, they were like, yeah, we know. Everybody loves parogi. Yeah, yeah. But it's really do big on the dumplings. Yeah. I think our Polish food is quite, everything is quite simple, you know.
Starting point is 00:44:37 The simplicity is something. But, yeah, I think we also very, very, you know, we open our hearts to the world, you know. And that is, I think, it's one of the kind of qualities. I think. And it's a good thing. Yeah. You know, it's a good thing because that's what the world needs. Does it surprise you where you've found yourself at this chapter of your life with everything that's come out of growing your garden and all the people that are reading your books?
Starting point is 00:45:08 Yes. Do you know, sometimes I think how incredible that, you know, one cutting of lavender has taken me to displace. And, you know, I get sometimes people messaging me up recently. I realized that Martha Stewart is one of my followers. Wow. And those, on people get in touch, you know, like high profile people. And I think it's just so lovely, you know, that everybody, it doesn't matter who you are and where you come from. You know, those stories are so universal to every human being. And that, it doesn't surprise me in some ways because people want the positive story.
Starting point is 00:45:46 You know, people do like to hear that someone has. has done something positive. It's also very wholesome. Growing parts is completely wholesome. Yes, and that's, you know, it is amazing what social media gives us because, again, 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't have a chance to, you know, almost like I've got my own stage and I am in charge of that stage and I can decide what's the next thing that I'm going to do.
Starting point is 00:46:13 So if you have a good story, if you have something meaningful that will change or positively contribute to our society. I always think, you know, to inspire other women, just go and do it. Because you just never know where that could take you. And, you know, that day when I came and this guy asked me, how was your journey? In fact, he was, when I came to this country, I was working for Mr. Mohamed Al-Fayette. Oh, wow. And that was one of his security guys. And that security guy last year was watching Gardner's World and got in touch with me through my social media and said, we were watching and we couldn't believe it. And he said, is it really you? Because he was, and I said, yes, that was me. And you know, I said, you have been part of my stories, all those years.
Starting point is 00:47:09 Because I've been saying to people, you know, when this guy has asked me, how was your journey? And I couldn't understand. And there he was. in 2024, watching gardener's world and seeing me at Hampton Court with my own garden and talking about my books. So it's just, you know, you could go and give them a very full answer to how your journey's been. Exactly. It's been quite a journey. And please tell me somewhere in your house is a sign that says, home is where your plants grow. Oh, God, do you know, now you made me think about, I should maybe make my own signs. Definitely, like above the door or something. your front door. It's too perfect.
Starting point is 00:47:49 Anya, thank you so much. Thank you. And all the best for whatever follows. May your garden always be in blame. And to you, my lovely. To you. Yes. Thank you.
Starting point is 00:48:01 Thank you. Thank you so much to Anya. What a gorgeous, gorgeous chat. And it makes me think a lot about, well, lots of things actually. Relocating, as I talked about in the intro, but also processing grief. And it's quite a pleasing metaphor, isn't it? Planting the seeds and seeing things grow as a way to renew hope, actually. You do need that.
Starting point is 00:48:35 And I know when you're processing sadness and trauma, that's the one thing that you need to keep a little light on, isn't it? the requirement, the necessity of hope. So I really appreciate Anya, not only with her generosity in our chat, but also the fact that she shares with so many people who have really resonated with, I think that shows you what other people need to. I'm now speaking to you from Brussels, actually. I've city hopped from when I did my introduction, and I was walking up those inclines.
Starting point is 00:49:14 And I'm now, yeah, really beautiful day here. It's a pretty place, isn't it, Brussels? We are having a day off here. So we got off the tour bus, we had some waffles. Oh, my gosh. Caramel, salted butter, waffles. Absolutely delicious. Then a very good coffee.
Starting point is 00:49:36 And now I'm off for a little wonder. You know me. It's a nice day, though. It's springy, actually, feeling. I know it's autumn, but it feels that kind of. If you told me it was April, I believe you. And, yeah, everybody's out on the back because it's Sunday. And tonight I'm going to eat more for eat and basically being a complete cliche.
Starting point is 00:49:56 Anyway, thank you for lending me your ears. Thank you to Garden Fairy for being so gorgeous. Thank you to Claire Jones for her production, Richard for doing the editing. And I hope you have a lovely, lovely week. More coming next week. I'm now at a vintage shop. Wish me luck. Let's love.
Starting point is 00:50:14 Thank you. You know, Thank you.

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