Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 176: Nicole Appleton

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Nicole Appleton is a singer and a mum to Gene aged 24, and Skipper who is nearly 6. She first came into our lives in the 90s when she and her elder sister Natalie were members of the hugely successful band All Saints. Together, the Appleton sisters have just brought out a new single ‘Falling Into You’ and it’s gorgeous. Very much their classic, warm and optimistic selves. She and I talked about the joy of having children so far apart in age. Nicole said she feels she and her eldest, Gene, grew up together. And with Skipper, who she had at 44, she felt more of a mum.She also talked about how she kept her whole pregnancy with Skipper a complete secret, even from her closest friends. How incredible is that! In all the podcast conversations I’ve had, I think this was the most impressive birth announcement story I’ve ever heard.Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Aspecta and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, aged between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions.

I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates I am so jet-lagged I don't even know which way's up and I just got spent some time crying with laughter because I found an account on Instagram with people posting awkward family photos

and you know when you're just in the mood for a giggle and then I was actually crying with laughter and no one else was finding it that funny but I think it's actually because I'm incredibly tired. Greetings from I'm in San Francisco now my darlings I have been up since 4 o'clock this morning, local time. It's now 9 o'clock. I was up with my youngest.

Back home, I've realized he would have woken up. Must have been kind of like 12 o'clock midday. But for me, in Australian time, it was like getting up at like 9pm. I don't know what time it is anymore. I've absolutely lost track. I spent two weeks in Australia and New Zealand, but even within that time frame, you're moving around different time zones. So the last place we were in for two days was Perth, which is only eight hours ahead of the UK. But then I've flown now to San Francisco where I'm eight hours

behind the UK, and I met the kids. So everybody's kind of topsy-turvy, but I'm just getting on with it. I came here to do some singing. I finished that last night. night now and now we've got half-term week, chilling out together. And actually, I think it's going to be really cute. It's a little bit rainy here, but it's nice to be away. It's nice to do something different for half-term. We never normally come away this time of year as a family, so it's quite exciting. We're staying in an Airbnb, and yeah, see what we get up to today. I've just, I was just finishing breakfast right now. The tour was so much fun. If you were one of the people who came, thank you so much.

I feel like I'm repeating myself a little bit by saying this, but I do mean it from the heart. But it's just extraordinary to me. I'm having these new adventures now. Honestly, if anyone out there is a creative, you really just don't know what's around the corner. Because I've just finished my first ever headline shows here in Australia and New Zealand. And I've always loved coming and performing. I've done loads of different shows in Australia over the years. But they've been a mixture of solo shows and then last,

18 months ago I came with the band for the first time to support take that. But, you know, that's still a very different thing. So doing my own shows has been really incredible. And there was never a given that those days were going to come. So really appreciated it. It played some really cool venues. We finished up in a brilliant one in Perth. It's kind of like a little outdoor.

It's got kind of like almost like a festival outdoor setup. But they do it as a standalone show. So that was really cool. And then some really nice, more sort of bandy, clubby venues along the way as well, including one in Melbourne called The Forum, which is really iconic. And I'd been to see Confidence Man there a couple of years back. And it's a very cool venue. Kind of like a slightly smaller Brixton Academy kind of a feel.

He also had on the road with me, Holiday Sidewinder, who's a brilliant support act. And actually, I was thinking about her today. She's a friend. We've done billions of tours together now. We think we were counting maybe six tours we've done together. And she works so hard. And honestly, I just think she really deserves all the good stuff that comes her way

and then some because she's a brilliant performer. She's written some absolutely wonderful pop music. And also she's just like a really upbeat, positive, optimistic, touring partner because she gets on with it. She works incredibly hard, but she's always really fun to be around. So, yeah, shout out to her too. And yeah, it was just really glorious. As was my conversation with my guest for the podcast this week, I had the joy of spending time with Nicole Appleton. Nicole and I have said hello over the years, but very briefly, you know, just sort of paths crossing here and there. And then, um, and then, um, I've said hello over the years, but very briefly, you know, just sort of paths crossing here and there.

and then we follow each other at Instagram which always gives you, doesn't it, that idea that you're sort of getting a little bit more insight in each other's lives. She always comes across so well and I was thinking about her and her sister and her bandmates from All Saints because there's been a few programmes on recently

about being in boy bands and girl bands in the girl band documentary I thought was a really good insight and had her band. manmate Melanie Blatt on there talking about being in All Saints. And I thought actually, I think Nicole has got a similar thing to me where because she tours with her sister, it makes that whole environment just that bit more wholesome and they're clearly very close. They clearly really enjoy what they do. And it means you're always with someone who's kind of got your back, plus the fact

that all of the All Saints were friends going way back. So she has been, putting music out since the 90s when All Saints absolutely weren't huge. And then has done solo projects with her, well, I say solo, a duo with her sister, Natalie, under the name Appleton. And they first released some music about 20 years ago and then had a hiatus where they went off and did other things. They did some more stuff with All Saints. And then they've come back together.

They have released some new material, partly brought about by conversations from their eldest children who both were really encouraging of working together with, you know, why don't you do some more music with Auntie Nat and vice versa? Which I thought was really adorable. Nicole's got two children. She's got Jean, who's in his mid-20s, he's 24, and he's a musician, and he's on tour at the moment. And then she's got a little girl called Skipper, who's just about to turn six.

And, yeah, she just seems really happy. She's married for the second time to skip his daddy. seems very happy in her relationship and told this extraordinary, quite jaw-dropping, actually, story of how when she became pregnant with Skipper in her mid-40s, her doctor kind of advised that maybe she might keep it a bit quiet at the beginning because of the risks associated with motherhoods at that time in your life. And she just decided to stick with the secrecy.

Oh, it's getting a bit noisier here. Oh, it's all right. Jesse's going in a different direction. Sorry, in quite an echoy house. So essentially, Nicole spent the entirety of her pregnancy, only talking about it with her sister and her family and her husband and his family. And no one else. None of her girlfriends knew she was pregnant. So she tells it extraordinarily well, but also it really gave me tingles. I thought it was a phenomenal tale. So I'm going to leave you with that. And yeah, I will see you on the other side. But it's a really, really, really. good story and also I just really

love hanging out with Nicole. What a lovely woman. See you in a minute. Well first I've been so looking forward to seeing you today Nicole. How are you? I've been looking forward to it as well. Really happy. Thank you so much for asking me. Not at all. I mean it's funny there's so many parallels and careers like from where they started and the wiggly paths we've been on. But I want

to start with the here and now because you've got a beautiful new single with your sister. Yeah. Which I really love. Yeah. It's so good. I think The reason why it feels so good is because there was no pressure. And we weren't even planning on releasing a single. We'd done a vinyl that we released for our album 23 years ago.

And it feels really weird saying that. And we got a lovely feedback from it. So I just thought, wouldn't it be nice? Maybe next year, this is last year, saying maybe we should do some festivals and do some of the songs from the album because, you know, people want to hear it still. Yeah. And then I don't know where it came along. I think our kids were like, well, just go in and do something. Why don't you maybe just do, maybe come out, do a single, and then do the festivals.

So it was really simple. It was really easy. And it happened very quickly. And it was kind of, we felt so happy with each other that it kind of came across that way in the song and the lyrics and everything. And it was that easy. It wasn't planned or anything. I almost feel like it's weird that we're talking about a new single when it was not on the

cards at all. Yeah. Well, I can actually, you're right, it really transmits that you've got that pure heart of just thinking we're doing this for the love of it. Yeah. And it's in the video clip. It's in the lyrics. And it's nice you mention the lyrics because I was reading them on the way here because very sweetly when I was organizing, talking to you today, Adam from management sent me not just the blur, but the lyric sheet and everything. And I was like, oh, this is so sweet.

So I could really sit and pour over them. And I was thinking, I know that there's obviously a very important. romantic angle to the song falling into you, but it's also got the relationship you have with lately and how much you've weathered, but also how you can feel so renewed at this part of your life? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, you know, we do say, obviously, a lot of people can relate to it in their own ways. I mean, I was like, wouldn't it be a lovely wedding song or something? You know, you think of beyond what you're feeling with each other. And I just think it just comes across. and we enjoy singing it because it's so positive and it's so nice.

And I think that's what we kind of need in the here and now. Yeah. And I wonder as well how much that is part of getting to this point in our lives as well. Yeah. This sort of slight renewed positivity that can come from really knowing, knowing yourself, knowing your friends, the family, the things that make you happy, the simplicity being the good stuff. Yes. Yes, like we said.

to bed. I know. The celebration of the Holson. Yeah, it's a great stage in life. And I think, I think that's, to us, maybe that's what it represents. Yeah, definitely. And it's funny because, you know, you mentioned 23 years since your album. But how do you feel about amassing time like that? Because I've, I've been thinking about that loads. Well, it's, first of all, it doesn't feel like it's been 23 years. So that's me getting my head around that. And this whole big thing that's been going over the internet about 2016. That feels like yesterday. So I'm just like, where did the time go? You know, you see your kids grow up. But because they're in front of you, you still don't see that as time. You just see your kids growing up. True. But when someone throws the dates at you,

it just makes you want to go, okay, we're going moving too quickly. Time's moving too quickly. You've got to really slow the pace down. And yeah, I think it is, it is scary thinking it was 23 years ago. But it feels good now. It actually does feel good now. We've been through a lot with our career and with family and stuff like that. So we're in a good place. Yeah, you definitely are. And I think there's a lot to be toasted and enjoyed about all these years. It's funny you mention the 2016 craze because when I'm ficking through Instagram, I'll just see a picture of someone's like, I think, God, they look really well. And it's just like from a decade. Yeah. It's weird. But I've talked about this.

I thought it had been better if it was like 2006 or maybe 1996 when you really see like a real change. It's true. Whether it's fashion or, you know, whatever it is. But it's nice to see that dramatic. I don't think, I mean, people do look younger, but it just feels not that long ago. You're right. It's only a long time to the younger people that started.

The 10-year-olds are now 20. I was going to say my 10-year-old. He was trying to explain to me what memes were around. And then his big brother's going, you weren't even born then. You didn't know that. I mean, you've mentioned your kids. So you've got your boy, is he 24? Yeah, so Jean's 24 and Skipper will be 6 in March.

Yeah. How, I mean, firstly, I loved hearing that your boy, well, your boy and Natalie's boy, was so integral to what you're up to now. Yeah. Well, they kind of have no choice. We're constantly, we chatter about everything in front of them all the time. You know, they hear us on the phone. They hear us, you know, because we're sisters, obviously.

They were at my mom's house and they hear everything. Yeah. So I think they just kind of have that very, it's so sweet when they have an opinion because it actually means more to me than anybody else is. Because I feel really cool when they like something that we've done. Or just to have their opinion because I trust it more than anything. And I thought, you know what, Gene? I'm going to, he said, ask Auntie now.

And okay, I will. So that's what happened. But it's, I love it when they get involved. Because he doesn't often, you know, I'm not allowed to get involved in his stuff at all. He doesn't, you know, he does his own music and he won't play it to me. I hear it when it's ready to go, like, because he just gets worried that I might get, have my opinions or I might get stressed about something. So he keeps everything quite private.

So it's nice when he suddenly says something, because I'm like, okay, I'll listen to you. Yeah, that's very sweet. And I think testament to the relationship that you have with one another, I mean, even just hearing about that, before, even before you elaborated, told me so much about your relationship with each other. Yeah. I mean, he's, I mean, he's 24, but he's still my baby. Of course. I love him. Like, I could squeeze his guts with love. He's that sort of thing. I just so proud of him and everything. And he makes me laugh and he makes us all laugh. And his relationship with Skipper is just adorable. He might be 24 and she's six, but he'll become six for her. And he's just, you know, they have the best time.

He gets on her page. And she, the other day when, you know, you know, he's, you know, he's just, you know, You know, we have to tell her that she can't look at her iPad for too long. She's like, well, I just want to live with Jean. I'm like, okay. Like, that's who she just wants to live with. She doesn't want to live with us. But she's, they have the most wonderful relationship. You wouldn't even know that they're so far apart an age.

Well, I think it's nice firstly to sing the praises of our young adult sons. My oldest boy is 21, nearly 22. Yeah. And I love the relationship we have. And like you, every time he has a birthday, I'm just so excited and proud and happy to have this person growing and blossoming. And also, like you, I share, you know, I talk things through. So when he picks up on something I've said, it's like, firstly, there's a sort of sweet, protective optimism that accompanies his intention with his suggestions. Yeah.

Also, he's listening. Yes. It's actually paying attention to what goes on. And I like that. Yeah. And also his take on things interesting. presumably the same with Jean. Yeah.

His viewpoint, his perspective. Yeah. And I wonder if this has happened for you as well. But when I've talked to my oldest boy is called Sunny, and when I've spoken to him about the perception of age in pop music, he's actually been one of the biggest cheerleaders for saying that is literally not even really a thing. Yeah. And it's been really nice to have that encouragement around me.

Like it's helped me feel like able to embrace everything. Yeah. I just stare at Jean when he talks to me. I just sometimes I'm like, he'll be telling me something. I'm just like, I just love you. You know, and you just think, I don't care what you're saying to me. I just love you so much. It's that.

That's when I look at Jean. That's how I feel. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah, I just can't get my head around him. And, you know, he's, he has his moments, but he, you know, he finds his feet. He's got the biggest heart as well. But with music, I also think with them with music, he likes music from years ago. You know, he's got this sort of whole decades of music that he's storing in his little brain.

And it just blows me away. And he knows exactly what he's talking about. So when he does tell me about stuff, I'm like, okay. Yeah. I totally hear that. Yeah. I really, really, that really resonates. And I think also, so when his sister was, I haven't got a massive, it's not quite as broad a gap.

But there's 14 years between my oldest and my youngest. So my youngest just turned seven a few weeks ago. Yeah. And I think seeing my eldest when he was in his teenage years with a baby was actually quite a lot of good that came from that as well for his perspective and outlook as well. Yeah. I think it's something that is not, we don't really sing the praises of it as much probably because I don't know. Maybe people tend to be now having their first children. I think the average age in London for your first baby is something like 32.

It might even be older actually. Yeah, I think it might be older. Yeah, which, and so people are having one or two, they're having them closer together later on, which obviously, however the cards for with your family is the right thing. But just having these big dynamics, I mean, I remember my youngest started nursery the same week, my eldest had his first driving lesson. And I felt just sort of quite clever that that was what was going on. Yeah, two positions.

Very different things going on in their world. Yeah, I think, you know, I hear, I mean, when I had Jean, I was, I think, 24 maybe. and I feel like him and I sort of grew up together. I mean, I didn't get, not that saying help is bad because, because obviously I wanted help when I got Skipper. But I just felt like, in fact, I never grew up with the word nanny in my life. I didn't have any friends that had nannies. I didn't really know what a nanny did.

I used to watch a Brady bunch and think, I'd love the lady that helps those their cooking and stuff. I used to want her. But I didn't really know what that was all about because I wasn't in a world where my friends had nannies or anything like that. So I did, Gene basically came to work with me all the time when he was little. Like when we did our, Nat and I did our Appleton album. It's 20, he was one. So, yeah, I was just trying to think of the math.

He was one. And we've got footage of him, me in the studio with him and feeding him. And his dad was really hands on as well, really hands on. So that's, so I feel like he grew up with me. Because I was still a kid myself kind of deep down the side. I mean, I was learning the ropes in the music industry and all that kind of stuff. making mistakes and da-da-da-da. But he was on that ride the whole way with me.

Whereas Skipper, it's a completely different story. It's like, you know, she was born during COVID. Of course. So she, I remember thinking, I think I'm going to get a night nanny because I'm tired now. You know, it's been a long time. And I thought it would be nice to get somebody to do night feeds and stuff like that. So we had this all planned out. But when she was born, it all got cancelled.

So we literally just. had to do exactly what I did before, which kind of made it quite nice. You know, I didn't, because there was nothing anyone can do, we were in this little bubble together. And, yeah, so she, she, she, it was very different. But now I'm a different sort of mom to her. I'm sort of, I haven't changed as a person, but I'm, I'm just not as, maybe energetic as I was.

I am, but I'm not as, I felt like a teenager regime. Now I feel like, what I feel weird saying is, but I'm, I'm just, but I'm just, I feel weird saying is, but I feel like a mom with Skipper. I feel like Jean's sister. Now I feel like her mom. But it's a really hard thing. And when she's with me and Jean, Jean's like, oh, mom and all this kind of stuff and Skipper.

It's just really funny, the dynamics. But having them so far apart, I feel like it is a real difference, having them very young. And having Skipper when I did when I was 44, I think. Well, I guess as well, working in music keeps part of you crystallized as well. Yeah.

So not only were you chronologically, it's a young age to have your first baby, but you're also working in the environment that's actively encouraged us to keep playful. Yeah. Particularly if we're working with your sister and your friends in music. Yeah. We're allowed to keep playing for a really long time. We still kind of do. Yeah, I know.

We still kind of do. We still kind of do. I just go to bed earlier now than I did with Jean. I'd be like scared coming home thinking, I'm like, because obviously when, like I said, we didn't have any help. But I have, we had, I had the most amazing mother-in-law on my ex-sicide and my parents and my sisters. So we had babysitters coming out of our, you know, everything.

So I remember thinking, oh, my God, it's like Jean's going to be waking up and we're just getting home. It was awful. It was those days. And I was like, oh, my God, I could never do that now. Like, it's like, I still can't believe I did, you know. It wasn't all the time, but there'd be those times where you think, how did I do that? How did I do that?

How did I do that? Yeah, that's funny, isn't it? When you look back and you think, oh, how did I have? the energy. But I guess also within your world, your, so I don't know about your older sisters, older older sisters, I know you're the youngest, but Natalie had a baby when you must have been in your teens, right? Yeah. So that's another thing as well to be an auntie then and see your sister turn into a mom at that point. Yeah. Well, Rachel, is Natalie's daughter, was like a little sister to me. I can imagine, because you would have been, I think I was 15. I was 15 when she was born. Yeah,

I was 15 when she was born. And I remember just feeling like it was so nice to not be the youngest. Because Rachel, we all sort of were like her mom because she was in, you know, we were all together. So we were all like, you know, now obviously was her mom and did the best job. But we all kind of took that role on as being a mother figure to her. And she just turned into like a sister. You know, she just, as she got older, it was like we were sort of on the same. Because my older sister is 10 years older than me.

Okay. So I felt like my relationship with Lee. is very much like my relationship with Rachel. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. So we, like, now we talk about everything. We talk about everything now. And so, yeah, again, it was like,

and then, you know, we see Rachel, and it's like when we think, okay, let's all the cousins sit on one table, but then Rachel's with us, you know, but she's the cousin. She's one of the cousins. Yeah, but she's an, yes, but she's an adult now,

but also, I guess, as the only baby then, she would have been the one. She was really funny because we all had kids around the same time, So Gene, A. Cis, Nats, the little one, and my sister Laura had Frank. And then there was Rachel. And I don't know if you remember the cartoon, the Rugrats. Of course. Angelica, yeah.

She was like Angelica. She used to go, I hate these babies. Because they used to drive her mad because she was the girl and they would go up to her and do silly things to her. And but they have the most amazing relationship. All of them. They're just very, very close. So, yeah, she used to be so funny. She used to be like, can you just take them out the room for five minutes, you know?

Just hilarious. I can really picture that because at her age when they were all coming along, they must have been quite, yeah, really isn't attached to her leg. Oh, yeah. Just driving her mad, just like being silly. Like, it was just wonderful. But I bet they adored having her around. I adore it.

And that's what she hated as well. She's like, oh, why'd you have to leave me with them? Like, it's fine, they're your cousins. And did you always like the idea of being a mum? Did you always see that for you? Yes. I loved it from day one. I loved it from day one.

I, and it's also weird because my gene, it was just like the easiest pregnancy ever. And it was easiest birth ever. And I used to never want to tell anyone that because I know the horrors that people go through.

So I used to think, yeah, but it was really, really easy. Skipper, his gene was a tiny, gene was five pounds, 13 ounces.

Skipper was eight and a half. So I was like, I feel like something in the atmosphere went, okay, you didn't experience. experience it. This is what it's really like. So, so I was, so I had this whole thing. I don't know if you know, I kept my pregnancy. Well, I was going to ask you. Yeah, I saw that, but I was going to ask you about that. Is that true? Yeah, yeah. So what happened was, I got pregnant with, um, Skipper. And at first I remember going to see my doctor because Steve and my husband has never had children. And I didn't know if I was going to be able to have children. And I didn't know if I wanted to have any more children because I feel like I've done it all. And I kind of passed go and, and, And she said, well, you know, at your age.

And I hate saying this, but they say, you have old eggs. And I'm like that. It's pretty ugly. Don't say that. So I was like, it doesn't sound great, does it? It doesn't sound sexy or anything. No, you don't walk out with your head held high. No, you don't.

And I had to take just, I felt like a chicken and all that kind of stuff. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So I was like, I don't want to tell him that. And I said, look, well, I know that, you know, with my mom having all of us, I thought, there's got to be something in my DNA. I think I'm going to be okay. think if I really want to have a child, I think I can have them. It happened straight away,

straight away to the point where my doctor was so blown away because she gave me my statistics of being able to, and then to carry it, to make sure that I didn't have a miscarriage and all that kind of stuff. So I said, oh my God, she said, well, don't see anything to anyone yet because of your age and because, you know, you might not be able to carry the baby. So I said, okay. And then after three months, she said, I still would wait because she had somebody who lost her baby at nine months because of an age thing. So I got really frightened and I thought, what I don't want to do is start telling everybody I am because I'm too worried that I'm almost jinxing it. So I kind of kept too quiet. And also my doctor is the doctor, my friends. We all have the same doctor.

And I used to say, but Claire, and she went, well, look, just keep it a secret. Don't tell anybody. She went, don't worry, my lips are sealed. I'll make sure when you come in for your appointments, it's not in the same day as this person's coming in or that person's coming in. And when I got to, and then I remember thinking, it was just so fortunate that my pregnancy when I was big was through November, and December and January, February March. So I was growing right until the beginning of March. And I went out with everybody when I was six months pregnant.

That was the last time I ran out with everybody before I, because no one knew. And I remember everyone having champagne, and I asked the way to for ginger ale in a champagne glass. Wow. And no one knew. So I was drinking ginger ale in a champagne glass. And then from then on, I thought, okay, now I'm going to have to think of things to say to everybody. And there was, you know, we usually go to New York for Christmas.

So I was away. I said, I'm going to New York for Christmas. And then there was some birthdays coming up. And I said that I couldn't make it. And did it. I try not to really lie. I just said I couldn't make it. And then Claire said, right, you know you can tell everyone now.

Or you just surprised them with a baby. And I was like, oh my God, I was so terrified about everyone's reaction. So I had her. And I was like, nobody knows I've had her. It just felt so weird. But we would FaceTime each other all the time. So they'd see my face from the shoulders up. Wow.

I didn't gain any weight on my face. So I'd face-time everyone all the time. We'd be chatting about I can't believe I haven't seen you in the song. But FaceTime sort of made up for not meeting up with everyone. because everyone could see you, they almost got your fix, and all that kind of stuff, and we could chat about stuff. And then the day I had her, I was like, I'm not telling anyone while I'm in the hospital, let's just get home, make sure everything's fine. And I did this FaceTime call with like six of my friends. And there was rumors apparently going around because one of my friends tries to be a sleuth saying, I think Nick might be pregnant.

And my sister was like, no. My sister took a lot of flack, by the way, because she would go to the parties that I didn't. go to and they'd all say, I can't believe your sister didn't come. And my sister had to go, Nikki, everyone's giving it to me and not you. This is a lot. Yeah. So she, so anyway, I phoned my friends, one of them being Holly Willoughby, she was on the call. And she at the time was working it this morning. And everybody answered the call, except one particular friend. And she was walking through the studios. And everyone was like, hi, everyone. I went, hi. And my other friends around there. I went, guys, I've got something to tell you. And they went, what? And I said, I'm pregnant. Because I didn't get that opportunity yet. So I thought I said, and me mom, holding you.

And I'm pregnant. They went, no way. And my other friend, Nikki, went, I knew it. I thought everybody, that's why you haven't been coming out. I knew it. I knew you were pregnant. And I went, I got something else to tell you. My heart is going like this. I went, and I've had her. Holly fainted, literally onto her knees. My friends looked. like they froze. You know when you go, hello? Is everybody still there? They froze like, as that a doll?

They thought it was a doll I was holding. And I said, no. And then there was tears, there was disbelief. They couldn't actually believe that I'd gone through a whole pregnancy and they never knew about it. I can't quite believe. I mean, I'm getting this. The anxiety feeling.

I'm still feeling. I know. I feel like I'm telling them again. And I was so anxious. I was literally shaking because I thought, oh, my God, this is huge. And none of them went, why didn't you tell me? But eventually I was like, this is this situation. And because they all knew Claire, who was my doctor, they were like, I said, it was all for medical, you know, advice.

And then it just turned into, let's see how long I can do this for. Wow. Yeah. But they were all. And then one of them, well, thank God. At least you can drink now. They didn't have to wait. Congratulations and all that.

Yeah. We don't have to wait nine months. months for it now. I was like, guys, so it was a real, you know, it's something that, I mean, I couldn't believe I did it, but. Okay. So that's what happened. Questions. Yes, questions. Questions. Okay. I appreciate where your doctor's coming from. Yeah. But that's quite a lot for you to hold as well. There's a lot of emotions that accompany pregnancy and new motherhood and all these things. So is this solely being confided in who? My parents, my sisters, my husband, my brother-in-laws, you know, all the kids knew, Gene knew.

And so, okay, so with Jean, are you saying, don't tell your mates? I just said, I'm not telling anyone. So sometimes I think, and then I remember him saying, oh, Mom, I told Rufus by accident his friend because I had to do my drinks. I went, that's okay, not like Rufus is going to tell anyone or one of his friends. But so with she- As opposed as well, like 18, you said he was, right? They're not really famous, like 18-year-olds, were bringing up small talk about their parents.

Yeah, they're not having a baby. And their other, to be honest, their friends don't actually care. Yeah, exactly. They're like, oh, I'm not looking you. Why are you talking about that? They'll probably think, you'll know you're going to have a baby in the house, you know. That's probably what they're thinking. Yeah.

But so I felt happy with the support I had. Yes. It was, which was amazing. Like I said, Nat was the one that was sort of in the firing line. Yeah. She would sort of represent me at these certain events that we were both invited to. Yeah. And have to be the one that stood there going,

and did you enjoy the gap with your friends about this while you processed your emotions? Yeah, I also like the fact that, you know, things can get out. And I was quite happy that nobody knew. I was glad the press didn't follow me. They followed me everywhere with Jean when I was pregnant. And would say things like show the most awful picture of me, even though, you know, I'm big and pregnant, and say, Doesn't she look gorgeous?

Well, they know what they're doing with all that, don't know? And I'm just like, I've had that to me. And it's like, you're hurting me. You're not saying anything nice because you know you pick the worst picture. Yeah. So I also had that feeling of freedom of controlling my own life and my pregnancy, especially being at the age I was. I didn't want to be scrutinized for all that kind of stuff either.

So it kind of worked in a way where I had my own privacy for a change, you know? Yeah. And if anything was happening at any point where you thought I actually do want to, to speak to that person or best person. You had the control of that moment too. Yeah, I did. And even the press went, what? And I was like, oh, thank God. It was nice to them. And then I put it out that I, you know, had her. She wasn't a secret. But, you know, I wasn't even going to keep it a secret to begin with. It was just the fear of what could have happened. Yeah. You know, it didn't go well. So I kind of happened sort of naturally. And then it did

at the end. She said, you can. I was like, she said, but wouldn't it be funny if you didn't tell you. So how far, where were you up to in the pregnancy when she said, you know, you can probably tell them. I think it was probably the end of January. Okay. So it was sort of maybe I was 10, nine months. It was towards the end. Wow.

And you're like, I've come this far. I know. And then you're picturing the Zoom call. And then also I didn't want everyone to say, can we come over? And I'm like this. And also I was like, it was the whole baby shower. And they were like, we haven't done a baby shower of you. And I said, it's okay.

You don't have to have a baby shower for me. It's fine. Those things don't mean anything to me. You know, I just want to have a healthy baby. Yeah. And that's it. No, I really get that. And I think also.

Conversations, when I had my loss, so I was 39, and it was the first pregnancy where some of my girlfriends had got into their 40th, and the idea of a baby, they would only talk about their emotions about how they would feel if it was them, which most of them were saying that is not what I want right now. And the idea of going back into new motherhood now doesn't sound appealing. And I'd be sat there thinking, I don't really need to hear this. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm having a baby. Yeah, and I'm happy about it.

Yeah, yeah. And I don't need to reassure you about why this feels right for me. Yeah, exactly. So not having to carry that or share with them updates. Yeah, updates. And you know what, and when you have a group of friends that everybody wants to make sure every two minutes, it can be, can we talk about something else? Because even though I'm pregnant, I still have other things I like to talk about. Let's talk about somebody else for a change.

You know, it kind of, it kind of took all that away. You know, I just cruised through it really nicely, you know, and I was, you know, and I was, I trained up until I was, because I go to a gym, which was allowed to be open because it was not many people allowed in there until I was before, two weeks before I gave birth. Oh, wow. So that I just, that was my happy place, not talking about how I'm feeling and this and that the other. And if I was, I moaned, I'd moaned to my sisters. I was like, oh, my back hurts or something like that. And it was easy.

I didn't go into it. And then, and also if I told one friend, they'd all be upset that I'd told one friend. So I thought, I really can't tell anyone. I can actually really, at first I was thinking, wow, that's a lot for you to carry. But now I can understand that actually there was a lot of gave you that's almost quite instinctive. You know how cats, you know, they sort of squirrel themselves away when they're about to have babies. Yeah. There is definitely a side of, you know, humans that quite like that snuggling, hibernating.

You know, don't just leave me to do this. I'm going to just follow my garden. I got enough. I had enough. I've got three sisters, you know, and I've got my husband. and I've got my mom and my dad. I had enough support to get through it. You know, that's, I mean, I speak to my family 100 times a day on FaceTime, all of them.

So to then do that, to then another friend wanting to speak to me, another friend. But the fact that I didn't even tell one of them, because they'd say to each other, did she not even tell you it? No. I can't. I'm still picturing the Zoom call with the time pregnant and then actually. I know, because I thought, they don't even know that. I didn't even get the joy of them saying, oh, my God, congratulations.

So I thought, let me tell them I'm pregnant. And then I had her, I'm telling you, if I had a, I should have screenshot that moment of their faces because it was priceless. It really was. Yeah, I just want to. But then, but the worst thing was, is that the day after she was born, we went into lockdown. So the last, they couldn't even come and see her. So it took even longer for everybody to come and see her. But, you know, it was, it was, I actually really enjoyed that. I, you know, with Jean, like I said, I had a lot of, of people following me around, a lot of pictures, a lot of that kind of stuff, and all my friends

involved then. So this was, it was quite nice. It felt easy. It felt like I was able to enjoy it and just concentrate on being me and not caring all the time and no efforts made to go out just to walk the dog. It was just so nice. I'm also super impressed with you. I don't know if I could do that. I don't know how good I am at holding Big Mew. I know. It was all. It was I know I wanted to tell everyone at first. I did. I wanted to tell everybody. Yeah. But I was told not to. Well, I wasn't told not to. I was told, just wait a second, you know. And even at the sixth month mark, it was a bit, still a bit iffy. Well, I guess your doctor gave you permission to have that as a valid. It was a valid, essential to accompany you. And then they all, then they all went, I know. So she all obviously told them as well. She told them that, you know, it was confidentiality is part of her. So actually. But I did tell her.

I said to her as you can tell them because I don't want them to think it was all on me. So I said, Claire, when you see them, can you just say, you know, it was medical advice? Do you think you would have thought of it if she hadn't said that? No. It wasn't on my mind at all. No, it's not something we would think of as an option usually. No, it wasn't on my mind at all. And also, I was like, I was worried that someone would find out and I was still in that sort of not, it was like, that danger zone.

I was worried because I was like, I don't want anything to have. happen. I don't want to get everyone's hopes up. And then, and then also that feeling of everyone being worried about me and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But then it turned out really funny. Yeah. And so when she was born after lockdown, is this the first big pop thing you've been involved with? Yes. So, well, she, since she was born, we did do some gigs in 2000. Yeah, we'd have done the reissue and was that way. Yeah, we did the reissue. Skip, we did the Isle of White Festival when Skipper was, I think, one or two. And she came along to that. But she was like a baby bouncing on stage with her big headphones on. But now she's going to, now that obviously

we're doing the Mighty Hoopla, so we know that's been, that's sort of in the bag, which is one of my favorite festivals. Oh yeah, let's talk about Mighty Hoopla. That's going to be so good. Yeah. So I think knowing that she's going to be the age she used now and she's very aware now and she knows music. and she actually knows music that I don't know. She's going to really appreciate it. So I'm kind of really glad that it is happening so that she can see it. You see us perform.

She went to this kids camp over the weekend and Stephen went to collect her and she was playing my song in there. And she said, and they said, oh, it's really good. And then she played my son Jean song and apparently she told them all that she doesn't let her dad sing. He's not allowed to sing anything.

Right. So it's just really funny. It's funny how she's grasped everything. That's so sweet. Yeah. Well, how nice to sort of enjoy everything in this new, this chapter where it's funny, because we sort of talked about it at the beginning. But when, I mean, we both started our careers in music industry in the 90s,

which I don't know about you, but even though it was like, it taught me everything I needed to know in lots of ways, looking back, it was also quite a baptism of fire, I think. Oh, yeah. And I say that with a smile on my face because I did, I'm kind of, kind of glad as well. Yeah. But it really was an extraordinary story. There's something really proud to be said being a part of the 90s.

Like it was in all genres of music, whether it was rap or rock music, whatever, a Britpot. It was also very cool. All the music was very cool in the 90s. So there's that feeling of being part of that. It was also very excited. roller coaster ride, so it had its ups and its downs. Yeah. But we all held on.

Didn't we? We ended up being little survivors. We all held on with no seatbelts. Yeah, it was extraordinary. But I think it gave... Does your kids think it's cool that we were part of the 90s? Because Jean always says to me, Mom, what I would have done to be part of the 90s.

Now, his music is grunge, so his is like Nirvana and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, I guess he and probably my eldest boy can appreciate that. I mean, one of my kids not that long asked me if I was alive when the Titanic went down, so I'm not sure they quite got crossed on the chronology of the 90s. I think they just think I lived in black and white. Oh, that's hilarious. I know, when you think of the 90s, it does feel like that, doesn't it? When they get a bit older, maybe. Actually, my husband Richard, his parents, his parents.

parents' house, they've just been doing one of those big declotters. Oh, yeah. And so he's brought home, boxes and boxes of stuff from his teenage years, which includes loads of old enemies and this kind of thing. Oh, wow. And I was sat yesterday looking through it. Yeah. And it really brought back memories. And I know for our oldest boy, he thought that was so cool. Yeah. He was absolutely riveted by all these things. So, yeah, I think that's a really cool box to find. I know what you mean by stuff because there's stuff floating around of ours everywhere and all sorts of stuff. But there's that and you can kind of get lost in it. Like I would probably sit for hours looking through it, just remembering everything and just

looking at the dates and the headlines of everything and what people were doing then. And also, not even about us, about other bands. Oh yeah, no, no, that was it. And I, because I, my first gigs were all sort of 97, 98. Yeah, yeah. And one of the enemies was from 97. And even looking through it now, I was like, I remember the feeling of, attention, will we have made the pages anywhere?

Would there be any mention of my band anywhere? Am I in the gossip column maybe? Was I spotted somewhere? Did someone spit a drink on me? Oh, it's brilliant, though. I love that. See, my mum has a lot of the magazines and stuff somewhere in her roof, her loft. But, yeah.

It really brings it back. Yeah. And also, because obviously there's been, you know, a lot of, I know, looking back and thinking about that era and, you know, music is such a portal for that. And I recently had an amazing I was crying with laughter. WhatsApp group with my friends where we were talking about, because we were all London girls and all obsessed with Brit Pop. And we were talking about any, how any, it's really embarrassing, any sort of brush with anyone that was in a band was really exciting. And I was remembering that I'd got, this will be so niche. A cigarette burn from

someone in Northern Uproar. And my friends one, she was making me love. Was it worth the pain? New. My friends, one was that she'd snogged a bouncer who said he was the lead singer of men's worst cousin. Oh, my God. Do you know these names are, oh, my God.

That's hilarious. I know. But you know what? It does it bring back good memory so, doesn't it? Oh, definitely. I mean, I'm so glad, really, that I had some. like escapades. Yeah.

And I was quite wild as well, which is maybe not what you'd imagine. Yeah. But, you know, obviously recently as well, there's been those documentaries looking back at like the history of girl bands and boy bands, which have been really insightful as well. Yeah. I think you have really were holding a golden ticket because firstly you were in a band with friends. Secondly, with your sister.

Yeah. Yeah. You cannot underestimate what it's like. It was home from her. every time we went on tour. And someone looking out for you? Yeah, yeah. I mean...

Yeah, we had each other's back. Can you even imagine what it would have looked like to done all the things you've done if it's not with now? Yeah, no, exactly. It's amazing, isn't it? And we, you know, we knew we had each other's, you know, she needed to call me if we were in a hotel somewhere in, I don't know, Australia or something. You know, we were there for each other.

Whereas everybody else, you sort of give them their space because when your sisters, you don't, you have the same space. You give everybody else their space. So you don't, even though you hang out and you chat and your friends, you kind of think, because we're working together, you can't always rely on that person. So it was really nice to have her still now. Yeah, exactly. And it sounds like you guys traveled around quite a lot. Yeah.

Does it feel strange to raise children that aren't doing that same sort of childhood? Well, it's so funny because Gene is and Skipper, so Gene is on tour at the moment. Oh, okay. So he's supporting Miles Kane. But did he stay when you was his childhood, Mike? Must have been. Yeah. So he,

no, he came around, he toured. So he'd be traveling with you. He would travel with us a lot. Jean did. It was so sweet. And I loved every single minute of it.

And he would also jump on to his dad's stuff when he was, dad was doing his stuff. So he was used to all that. This is new for Skipper. But also, Gene has become a musician. Skipper is very athletic. I think it's because of the dad's,

like obviously Jean's dad does his thing, but Stephen's quite athletic. So she's, and he's very hands-on, and so she does all different sports and stuff like that. So I'm always like, I don't know. It's so weird having, you know, a child now that's so focused going that way. And then one, that I'm more knowing what Jean's doing. Like, I'm used to that. I'm not sporty at all, you know, and I find myself.

You're in the gym until two weeks before. I go to the gym. I go to the gym as a, like, a therapy thing. I feel like if I go to the gym, it's my way of, you know, or if I ran, I used to run on the Heath alone until I had skipper. Then I couldn't run anymore because she did something. to my back. But I used to find that my way of just dealing with everything I was going through, whatever I was going through. So I don't even if I go to the gym and I'm exhausted and I'm trying

to go, okay, I'm like, just me being here is good, you know, just getting out the house and coming straight here first thing in the morning. Whereas, you know, like, we'll go skiing and I'm that one that's completely backwards. And Stephen's such an encouragement, you'll say, but you're great. And I'm like, do you know what I mean? I'm not. And I try, but then skipper's really good and he's really good. And I'll just ski off to the side somewhere, you know, do my thing. But, you know, she's great at tennis and all that kind of stuff.

It's like me, I like to go to the beach. I like to, I like to listen to music. I like to watch films. I'm sort of a bit more like that. Yeah. I get that buzz out of all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but also I really, later when you said, I go into the gym and he said, just the fact that you went there is enough.

I think, again, that's the joy of really knowing yourself and also just being like, I don't need to worry too much about the bigger picture because I'm doing the things that work for me for now. Yeah. It's a really nice feeling to. Yeah. I just, and, you know, everyone says, what did you get out of it? And I said, I just, there's just something that sets me up for the day, you know, and I feel like, you know, my trainer will tell me that his kids are really, like, I've got the, all of them, because he's got two kids under four, and they always seem to get the same bug from school. And he's like, I've been up all night. And I'm like, just you telling me what you're going through is helping me. It's just, I'd like to help. I'd like to

help you and say, oh, it'll be fine. You know, everybody gets it. I feel like just that has sent me up for the day instead of me just sort of not doing anything. Yeah, yeah. No, I get that. The last thing I want to ask you about is something that's a very personal thing, actually. So in my family, I'm the eldest. So when my mum and dad separated, it was just, I was the only one from their marriage.

And then my mum and I were on our own. She was a single mom with me until I had my, she got remarried and had my little brother, who's a drummer in my band. so I know that traveling with family and Rich is in the band as well. It's the same sort of thing. But for my mum and I, that time when it was just the two of us

was like such a keystone in our relationship. And I just wondered what your reflection would be on that with your firstborn and that time when it's just the two of you. Well, Jean, when Liam and I separated, Jean was, I think, 12. And he slept next to me. Him and I would sit in a girl

and watch family go. every night, like religiously, we'd just sit and watch. And it was our thing. We both fall asleep, watch Family Guy because he loved Family Guy. So I was like, okay, well, watch Family Guy. And I think he felt like my protector. And he was also very challenging because he was going through that sort of, he's nearly a teenager.

And I was really nervous of, you know, when you saw that Kevin and Perry thing when they come downstairs and suddenly they're just like, and I don't know if I could handle that. But he did it really well. Like, he had moments, you know. But he was always, quite supportive. And now, I mean, cut to him in this for a while now, we all get on really well. Like, Jean gets on well with his dad, like it's the best. And I think, but during that period,

like you said, we just had each other's back without really talking about it. We just were there for each other. And, you know, I always think when, I don't remember that fine line where he suddenly went back to his room. I don't remember it because we were both so okay that it wasn't a moment where I felt like he was gone back to his room. Yeah. So I was like, I just, you know. I loved those nights as well. Yeah. We just get into bed and watch Family Guy.

It was just, it was, you know, he made everything okay. In his way. Yeah. Well, it probably has been a bit of a keystone thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I feel like I now need to start a range of the podcast where I speak to lovely offspring of people I've spoken to because he sounds very sweet.

Oh, he's the sweetest. He really is the sweetest boy. He's just like, eat him just talking about him. I'm introducing to my oldest. I reckon I'd have a lot to chat about. Not least for better thoughts on our career plans. Yeah. Come on, how's that for a birth reveal story?

Pretty impressive, right? Yeah, I mean, I was listening to this story from Nicole with just my mouth open, like, wow. How to go through a whole pregnancy and birth without telling a single girl. friend, how satisfying to be able to share it with them at the end with this beautiful, healthy bubba in your arms. And I really get it, actually. And I suppose, you know, we had factors like COVID as well, around, floating around at that time, which made it a little bit more of a time when you were kind of hibernating a bit. But I suppose, yeah, you have this protective instinct sometimes and how good to just listen to yourself and think, I think this is working for me and I'm going

to stick it out. Very, very cool, super impressive. as is the new song from Nicole and Natalie Appleton falling into you. It's really beautiful. And they have got such a sound, sort of smooth, optimistic grown-up pop music. So please do check that out. And I'm guessing around this time, and I'm sorry to sound woolly, but my brain isn't working very well with the jet lag. But I think we're heading into the season back home where BBC Radio 2 are doing their piano room sessions.

and I know that Appleton are doing one of those so please go and have a listen to that as well because it'll be really gorgeous and I heard what cover version they're doing and it'll be very, very good. But yeah, back here. Sorry, it's funny, I just was having a quick look on the WhatsApp from my band

and everybody's all scrambled. Most of them have gone back home. Portina on Keys. She's actually home for 10 days and then she's coming back, going back to Australia. So it's all a bit daft. A few of the band, no, actually a few of the crew have kind of done other things post-tour

because you might as well. So it's nearly 50-50 for who went home and who did other stuff. But we're all a bit discombobulated, to say the least. I mean, yesterday I was thinking I was coping quite well with the jet lag of being now in the States. And then Richard had to pop in to have a, a doctor's appointment yesterday, so I took the kids just for a little wonder in the local area. And we were in Chinatown, and we went into one of those markets where they kind of got a little bit of everything.

And Mickey decided he wanted to wear yellow gardening gloves, wearing a yellow baseball cap that said San Francisco and holding a little, I guess it's something you put in the garden, like a sunflower windmill thing that spins around. He's like, can I buy these gloves and this sunflower? I'm like, sure, he looked really funny. I think that's about the bar, really. I'm just like, yeah, so long as it's funny, you can get away with stuff. And I think it's time that I go out and get a sauce and caffeine. Oh, it's such a shame. It's raining. I'm looking at the window. It's going to rain from now for like the next three days. So that's great. And I know it's been raining nonstop in the UK. And one of my girlfriends is in Berlin and it's raining there. And my manager has just flown to Los Angeles and it's raining there.

So planet rain right now, mostly. Not in Australia though. Anyway, wherever you are, I hope you can find the sunshine in your heart. And I hope everything is well with you. And thanks to Lending me your ears. Thanks to Claire Jones, who produces the podcast. To Ella May does the gorgeous artwork, to Richard's husband, who does the edit and pulls it all together.

But of course, biggest thanks to you lending me your ears, spending this time with me, listen to me doing my rambling, slightly randy, very disjointed, offload to your ears. And I will see you again next week. Lots of love, see you soon. Wish me to love with you soon.