Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 177: Jamie Genevieve

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Jamie Genevieve is a Scottish make up artist and entrepreneur. I follow her on Instagram and am so impressed by the brand she’s launched. Some of her products have now become my make up staples. We talked last month about how she started out as a makeup counter girl, loving demonstrating makeup and selling it, moving onto YouTube herself and then launching her own brand Vieve.Jamie has a little girl called Romy who will be 3 in May, and she revealed to me mid podcast that she has a second baby due in August! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Spexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, age between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates.

Hello, I am walking quite fast through a fairly cold, Californian rain. We brought the kids to meet us in San Francisco because I had a bit of singing to do here at the beginning of the week. And unfortunately, the weather has not been super kind. It's all right, I mean, look, there's been getting in the weather and also there's so many fun things to do here that you know are indoors but i just popped out this morning like oh i think the weather's looking a bit better and it's it's

raining and i left you know when you leave and you're like if i turn around now i could go and get an umbrella or something and you're like oh it's fine well it's not that fine it's pretty pretty cold but we're staying in an Airbnb in the suburbs and i'm walking past all these such pretty colour houses. I mean, I would love to speak to the local area folk and find out how it works with the colour of the houses because honestly, if I went home and I was like, I want to do...

Okay, I'm standing opposite a house. Okay, hi, guys. I want to do like a sort of pea green house with a sort of burgundy edging around all the windows and then a turquoise gate. Is that okay? I just feel like in my little pocket of West London and there'd be some raised eyebrows.

Here, it'd be like, sure, but have you thought about doing candy pink with purple trim and a blue gate? Every house is a different colour and some of them are really, really cool, very unexpected combinations of colours. So, you know, virtual high-fives to lots of the people who live around here. I approve of your approach to colour. We've been having a good week. So far we've been to things like Alcatraz,

and to the Penny Arcades. Yesterday, a place called the Exploratorium, some great Mexican we had yesterday. It's been a nice way to spend a week, and even the teenagers, I think, are slowly thawing out the resentment that they feel about not just being able to stay, having lions and doing not very much at home.

Normally, that would be absolutely what we did in half-time. We just seized this opportunity because it popped up. and I do believe I will win them over 100%. Who bloody knows though? I mean, that's the default setting when you're a teenager and I can remember that feeling so well. Anyway, this week I have such a lovely woman, Jamie Genevieve. She's a makeup artist, entrepreneur, businesswoman.

She has a makeup line called VIV, which has been. been around for six years, very successful. She focuses on lovely, oh, sorry, a big noisy fire truck, beautiful, sort of slightly dewy skin items. There's a lovely blush that I've been using. There's a wicked eyeliner pan. Everything's kind of designed to make your skin look a bit luminous, dewy and nice. But lovely colours in there. as well because Jamie likes her makeup as do I so it's not just about skin it's also about a bit of of color and lipsticks and blush and I'm going to say the brain's getting really hard now I might have my coffee on my own and the cafe and then walk with it as when it dries off and

she has a little girl who's two with her husband jack uh jack and jami as a childhood sweethearts. Jamie started out working in, well first of all the play centre, but when she got a bit older, she started working behind the counter in a makeup department inside a department store and absolutely loved it. And then she began the YouTube channel, which really blew up massively. And now, as I say, has her makeup room as well. She also revealed during her chat that she's having her second baby. She's very exciting. So huge congratulations to her. She has now announced it on all her socials. So I'm not like, oh, whoops, letting the cat out of the bag. But yeah, it was nice to speak to someone who's in that stage in life where they're, they just found out

they're having their second baby and are all excited. And yeah, it was a really lovely conversation. Jamie was down from her home in Scotland to do some business meetings and came to see me at the house. So yeah, I will leave you with the both of us having our cups of tea in the warm, dry sitting room for my house while I navigate the rainy cold streets of suburban San Francisco. But I'll see you on the other side and I will be dry by then. I can promise it. Thank you so much for coming over. We can officially... I was really looking forward to meeting you for so many reasons. but not least because I think we share a big love of makeup actually. So I just wanted to start about asking,

never mind the fact that it's your day job as well. What does makeup mean to you? What do you love about it? I love the ritual of it. I love the routine of it. I actually think that I'm quite, I was going to say chaotic there. I don't think I'm chaotic, but having little bits of routine in my life I quite like,

like anchors me maybe. And then I didn't get into makeup. until I was a bit older actually. I wasn't playing with my mum's makeup stuff. I say that there is a picture of me with red lipstick on when I'm a toddler and I was obviously loving it. But makeup for me,

it really is all about the transformation. If I'm feeling a bit rotten or if I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, I'm looking shattered. And you know, you feel it in your bones as well. If I sit down and do my makeup, it's like I can completely pretend to myself

and be like get a grip and get on with it kind of thing. So there's a really nice experimental side of it. there's the kind of self-care element and then it's the I don't know preparation for the day I just love it

I love it there's so many facets to it I think yeah I really get what you mean there I think of it a bit like punctuation as well and so it gives me like a gap between how I was before and the after so like a comma or a dash to take me from whatever mood I was in before

and I carry I love the space of that I love sitting in that grammar and being like this is the transition point and just having a moment with myself for that that's so poet that's beautiful I love that so much well it does mean a lot to me and I like it and I've always enjoyed that and it is transformative and it's also fun really fun yeah and how do you say you were a bit later when you went into it what is later to you so I really really remember starting to do a proper smoky eye like proper makeup when I was 14 and when I was 14 that's what I got for my birthday was great makeup and it was funny I really skipped a few stages I think I went straight

from not really what what stages are there before 14 well and do you know what did you know what a generational gap making its first appearance in our conversation it's the product I went straight to a counter with an artist and sat down and I remember feeling really grown up and sitting down with a proper artist and saying I would like some makeup please I didn't do the you know the boots going round and the super drug, I went straight to benefit. And then even when I, even when I was working full time, I had a ton of jobs grown up. And when I was working full time, my first paycheck, I went straight to House of Fraser and bought lots of posh makeup. I've always liked that. So I think when I was 14, I really remember that. And I remember doing my makeup for like little

parties that I was going to with school friends, but also work, because I worked from when I was 14. So I was sitting doing my makeup for work and I felt really grown up. And is this when you're working in the play centre. Yeah, yeah, the soft play. The soft play. I did a bit of makeup in the soft play, but I really turned it up a notch when I worked for Comet Electricals

on the checkout. And I really significantly remember doing my makeup and doing a really nice, deep side parting. And I had a big rosette flower. I honestly must have looked like some kind of Spanish dancer. I don't know what I was thinking.

But I remember I felt great. I felt really great. My dad would always, you know, I felt grown up, And we had this big old Volkswagen camper van that he would drop me off at, that we dropped me off with, that I used to get made fun of at school. But when it was work, because adults don't make fun of each other the same way, I was like, I like this world better.

I was like, this is good for me. So makeup in that sense, on myself, that's when it started. But it's like burned into my brain in the nicest way, watching my mum do hers. And I just wanted to be a witness to that. I didn't want to take her bag. I like looking at it. And you know the smell? I was going to say the smell of it as well.

The bronzer beads. Yeah. And like the wood from the wooden pencils, that's properly burned into my brain in the best way. I love it. Yeah. And she just, my mom's the most beautiful women.

And she had me pretty young as well. So it's crazy for me to think back to what age she would have been when I was watching her. But she would have been like 22, 23. So how old was she when she had you then? Like teens? Yeah, 18. Oh, wow. 18.

So she was young. But I just, because she was my mom. I was just thought that she was so grown up. And obviously she was, she had to grow up pretty fast probably. And it was my mum and dad, so they're still together. But I remember my dad would be driving and my mum would be doing her makeup in the front of the car. And I just remember thinking that those were adults and then looking back, like, as I am now, I'm like, that's not an adult at all.

That is actually pretty wild. And also it's amazing. I mean, I was going to talk to you about your folks because they're clearly such big cheerleaders and supporters and absolutely surrounded you with so much the good stuff, love but also positive morale and they just believe in you. They sound exactly like parents you're hoping to have actually. Oh, totally. I'm hoping to be as well as a great.

That's a great start. I look at that all the time and just how I was like helped to feel about myself. Yeah. Great start. And actually thinking about it now, if they had you when they were both young, it probably set the tone for their relationship that there was always, you know, they were a family unit from very early on. Yeah.

So it's always lovely when you hear those stories that that can be part of the foundation of how their relationship grew. You were part of it from the get-go pretty much. I have made that joke before that we all grew up together. And my mum was like, yeah, pretty much, pretty much. Yeah, but that's not always a bad thing. No, it's great. And as you know yourself with your little girl, however the cards fall with your family, kind of feels like the only way it was ever going to be.

That's sort of the thing that's incredible about it really. But suddenly the idea of the other just vanishes. That's where it. I can't imagine it being different. Yeah, you're right. But I did want to talk to you a little bit more about, because when you said I got into makeup a bit later, you were pretty much the same age I was when I started to go in makeup.

But I did miss, I didn't do the glamorous bit. I was the one scuttling into boots and not realizing that, for example, concealer comes in different shades. So whichever one I grabbed, I would then probably actively highlight wherever I was trying to cover up with the sort of orange. Conceola. But I think one of the biggest shifts in the world of beauty and makeup is that people who are interested in it, they are going straight to the good stuff. They know their stuff. They're well researched and they're looking for things that speak to them that aren't,

that are maybe a little bit of a more, what we would have thought of as more of a luxury. But if it doesn't feel like it feels like it's looking for them now, it's in the right spot for them. Yeah, I think so. I think social media. media has to have a huge part to play in it, right? And actually, as we're talking, I just remembered that I did, I do remember at one point going into boots and taking a liquid eyeliner and putting it straight in my water line and just temporarily blinding myself. I was going to say that must have been a bit painful.

Yeah, not great, not great. So I did have those moments, they'll get me wrong, but I do think, you know, I get tagged in these pictures. And I think maybe a lot of it as mum's passing it down to their daughters, they're wanting their daughters to have the great stuff. So loads of little girls that have bounce bam, which is my lip balm that I made. And that's like it's really sweet and it's age appropriate and it's nice. I do think that younger girls as well or anyone that's wearing makeup are really good at it really early on.

Yeah. I think that's nice because you can just teach yourself anything. It's so true, the level of finesse. I mean, I have a memory from my teenage years of catching myself about to see what it would look like if I did nail varnish on my eyes because I was like, it's a great colour. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? Actually, no, again, yeah. I can understand why the kind of intrusive thought would come into your mind,

but I'm glad that you're restrained. Me too. I probably wouldn't have any eyelids right now. We sat with like prosthetic eyelids. But so, you know, you talked about, I read about there was a one week in particular when sort of the stars started to align with you getting your first job and meeting the man of Ken. husbands.

So how well were you then? I was picturing you sort of 16, 17, but maybe... A wee bit later, but yeah, it was like late teens. And I actually, every time I talk about this, I realise that I need to get my dates lined up, because I always forget. But I think I was like 18, 19, and applied and got into college, which was quite a spontaneous thing to do. It was quite impulsive, but it felt really right.

And when something feels right into me and my intuition, my gut, I'm like, well, there's, that's the right answer. Met Jack at a club in Glasgow. And I just, but I just loved him. I loved him from winning. Which club? Can I ask. Yeah, it was ABC? It was great. Cool.

Was it ABC or was it the garage? I don't really want to say the garage if it was the garage, because that's embarrassing. But I have been, I might have been the garage. I used to. Nice and sleazies. No, oh, nice and sleazes. Glasgow is such a great city, by the way. It's great.

ABC, I get sad about it because it burned down. Do you know that? It burned down. but that was our old haunt we used to love it there but it was either I think it might have been garaged actually but I actually first saw Jack with my eyes with my eyeballs when I was 15 and I really did fall in love with them straight away which was a nightmare nightmare to everyone involved

nightmare to my parents but nothing I didn't speak to him again for years and then years later I saw him again I was like I still actually just love you so much wow so what was the first time you saw him you didn't did you speak no he said he remember saying hello to me and I didn't say anything back to him. You too goody. Cartoon style. Yeah, have a little bit, which is really embarrassing.

I did, I did, I just, it's funny, it feels quite cosmic now, looking back. But we had tons of time apart, and then it all kind of came together. I think I got into college and then went on a trip to Paris, and he was kind of in an extended friend group. We all ended up going away together. And then the city of love, just it was too much, too much for us. Yeah, wow.

Well, it's so romantic. And also I think, you know, maybe again, it's funny when we sort of end up repeating things, but you, you know, you see your parents with this very strong relationship that's weathered lots of things. And then you find out you've actually replicated aspects of that from, you know, now you can see it's very young to see someone and be like, that's the one. That's good. That's pretty young. And sweet for your daughter when she's old enough to hear those stories. Totally.

That's very cute. Yeah. It is, it is. So when you had all these sort of like stars aligning with the beauty school and the counter job and Jack Lato and will become obviously such of integral part where you're up to, but for then, did it feel like that feeling where all the lines joined and you thought, oh, I think I'm doing the thing I was always meant to do, but hadn't really dawned on you until then? Makeup for sure, yeah.

It felt like, it just felt quite nuts to me. I loved it so much. Definitely had a natural flair for it. Always loved art. I think creative people are always like that, right? You kind of flow through the different kind of creative aspects of life and things you can study. I thought I wanted to go to art school.

I thought I wanted to be a dressmaker at one point. And then, yeah, makeup I just kind of fell into, but I just loved it. And then when I love something, I find it so easy to just pour everything into it and it not feel like a chore or a job. So, you know, start in social media for example

that was just at that perfect time it was the perfect time to do that because it was early on and it took effort and it took work because I had to go home from whatever job I was working and then film the thing

or do the makeup or take the photos but I just loved it so much that I didn't see it as work so I definitely found a flow state yeah you could be very happily sort of single-trap minded with it I can picture that Yeah.

And then when you're finding the joy, the line between the work and the thoughts goes away because you're just thinking I'm really engaged and stimulated. Yeah. And then when I think you've got that momentum, it's such a happy bedfellow to making things happen, isn't that? You kind of think, right, I want the next bit and the next bit. But are you someone that's more of a – because when I speak to entrepreneurs and business founders, there seems to be two camps of people – some people who are really big planners. So they'll have kind of like a five-year or strategize on that side.

And then people that are a bit more, the more instinctive, they kind of go with their tummy, follow their nose a little bit more. I'm definitely the second one. Yeah, I think I was already expecting that. The planning thing, I think I fancy myself getting better with that because I do think with having kids, there's a bit of the kind of planning that comes into it that's a non-negotiable right, to organize them

and to make sure their structure there, going from working by myself. See if I just worked by myself. myself, like I was the only person in my team, I would just intuitively flow through life the rest of my life. I'd love that. Like, I do love that. The part about having a team for me was also that I had to add structure to my days. So being expected to be in certain places at certain times, that's something that was really new for me. Or, you know, it took me a while to get used to it again. But I do actually think for this season in my life, it's really important. And it's

something that has set me up to be better in certain areas. I'm like, oh, God, structure. and process actually does have a place but in me innately I'm an intuitive yeah so I guess when you became a mother you have to get that slightly more accountable to totally the choices you're making I guess it's to do with intention as well right because the time when you're not with your little one or when you're you know pursuing your work which is obviously you know you would have had your little one I mean she's still in tiny now she's not even three right she's like yeah no I I feel like I've been sitting two and a half for a long time. But she, you should be three in May.

Which I think objectively is one of my favourite ages. It's the best. That's so much fun and quite mad in a really good way. Do you know what? I just can't believe that this kid who is like, I can't explain how much I love her, but she puts her wee hands at the side of my face and just tells me how much she loves me.

My mum is actually, you know, my mum and dad and Jack's parents are amazing, but everyone's super involved. mom said how outstandingly loving she is, but also she's just very free with her emotions. She's a wild child and I love it. I just, I, I, I, we just witnessed it and it's amazing. I never want her spirit to be crushed ever. I want her to keep that. And then, yeah, it's just the best thing ever. So what was happening in your life when you had her, what was going on? I guess your brand would have been about the age she's about to turn, be about three, right? Yeah, quite. Do you know what? That's actually really nuts to think about because the brand being, you know, we turned five. The brand turned five in November, November just there. We launched in 2020. To think that Rumi's been around for half of that is absolutely wild. Because that's so fast it's gone. But I've got, are you in it star signs at all?

A little bit, yeah. It's a conversation I like having. I'm curious about it. I'm not very well informed. When I was listening to your podcast, I actually was really wondering if you were a cancer. Oh no I'm Ares Are you? Oh wow Okay my husband's in Ares That's amazing Wednesday's birthday

Just out of interest The second of April Cool I'm the 10th Okay quite close Yeah Yeah We're quite a

Ares Taurus Heavy house My daughter's Taurus Which is funny Because Ares and Taurus I think clash Jack and Romy Wind each other up

And Romy will say to me She's two and a half And she'll come up and say Mommy Daddy's winding me up It's so funny I can see like 15 years into our future and I'm like, oh no. Oh no.

But I'm a cancer. So I'm such a, definitely the nurture. I love home and I love being at home. I love and I love my family just more than anything. Yeah. And she, Torres are really like that too. Have you noticed that? Have you got quite a lot of Torres, Torres and your boys?

Yeah. So my first born and third are both. In late April, they're only two days apart, actually, their birthdays. Oh, wow. And then also I've got one in February, one in November, one of January. Wow. I'm really good at knowing what's happening with the first three, and then I start to get a little.

Honestly, I can only imagine. I don't know. So what's that Aquarius for one of them? And then, I don't know, is he Pisces, the second one? February can be Pisces, yeah. He's early, early. Oh, no, he might be Aquarius. Don't worry.

Well, we'll talk about it. We'll pull up the charts. But that is something that I find really fascinating. So I enjoy looking at it. And it's the first thing that I looked up when I found out I was pregnant with Romy. And when do you think this podcast is going out? Sometime between now and March, because I run them a series of 10, and I do one every Friday, every Monday rather, for the 10.

And then have a month off. So not before Sunday. No, not before Sunday. Well, I'm actually, I'm expecting my second just now. Oh, that's so lovely. It's the best news. Oh, I've got tingles. Congratulations.

I'm expecting a Leo, which is perfect for my Aries husband, but I'm so excited. And it's the pet. Why, miss you want to cry? I'm so happy. I'm in the first, just getting out the first trimester. I'll be 13 weeks tomorrow. Congratulations. And you look very well on it.

Thanks. Yeah. had to buy new jeans already. I can't believe how fast I've expanded. And see, by the end of the day, when I look in the mirror, I'm like that, I could honestly be 20 weeks pregnant. Yeah, I think when you've had your, when it's not your first pregnancy, you do fast track that, like the showing and everything. Wild. I felt with my third, I looked pregnant by about six or seven weeks, actually. So nice. I think you can get quite, quite fast track of that stuff. But that's actually the same age gap as well between mine. I've got most of mine are three years apart, which,

Perfect. I think it's quite an underrated age gap actually because it means that Remy will be sort of settled in nursery school and all that where she's probably already starting there. And she's got like her own world going on before this new person turns up. I think she's ready to be a big sister, for sure. She loves teaching people things

and she likes, I'll show you, mummy. And if I try and do it, no, no, no, I'll show you. I'm like, okay. So I think she can do that with a simple, no problem. but it's so exciting and it's exactly what you know it's quite mad it's exactly what I've kind of always dreamed of

so I've just feeling very lucky and happy to be out of that period you know that start period where no one really knows I'm telling my team tomorrow which is going to be great and then telling you know the kind of the

broader scale at the weekend and then I feel like I'll be able to wear T-shirts again Yeah, and enjoy it. And it's nice because you'll be able to, that'll all happen as we start getting like towards spring. It's a nice time of you. So how many, I'm trying, my chronology is terrible.

So Leo, is that? August. Sorry, yeah, early August. Early August. Nice. So happy little summer baby. Yeah, nice. Oh, well, congratulations.

Thanks. It seems like already an obvious question. Do you always want to be a mother? Yeah. Yeah, always. And I think what's quite strange is even just me and Jack. we never really spoke about it too much it was just something we understood about each other

that that time would come. Yeah. I think, if I remember correctly, Jack was actually the first one of us to kind of raise it after we got married. It was very traditional. We're not very traditional people, but we followed a pretty traditional route,

which was strange. But it was Jack that kind of mentioned like maybe we should do that next. Yeah, really, really always knew for sure. I can't really imagine. it not be in the case if that makes sense.

I always saw it in my future and hoped for it. I think I had maybe quite a lot of anxieties around it though just with an awareness of what can happen and how hard it can be. And how it can change things

but it's quite abstract before it happens because you don't know what's going to accompany your pregnancy your new baby and particularly if you're someone

that is building up so much and you're in such a fruitful full time of your life in your 20s. It can be this big unknown of, you know, how is it going to affect all these things that up until now have taken up so much of my heart and my mind? It's a big shift, isn't it? Yeah, totally. And I think just, I just feel so grateful that the process has been, you know, smooth sailing for us. Yeah. And if you're sort of so rooted in, you know the tone of your own ambition i think that can be a worry as well like how am i going to

feel to step back into something that's so reliant on my energy pushing the boulder forward am i going to feel like that anymore is it am i going to be able to tap back into that part of myself yeah i think when it comes to work in motherhood it's i remember thinking exactly that you know you hear about people going on mat leave and then just never going back they're like no i'm actually quite happy this is you know the kind of found what I really want to do. I really love, I love being a mum and I love my family. I really love working and I really love my work.

And I think that maybe it's been surrounded by women that I really respect and women that work also and, you know, listening to the podcasts like this, like exactly like yours. And it's people talking about the balance and actually understanding that that balance is just, like the word balance is so interesting, isn't it? It's a bit of, um, it doesn't, it doesn't really, exist in a perfect way. No. But accepting that, it's almost like you're just like taking your hands, the grip, like that

crazy grip you've got and just kind of like letting it go. Yeah. And then it's like quiet and peace and you're like, all right, okay. That's that for me how I felt. So when I'm with Romy, I'm really good at putting my phone down. And, you know, like anything that happens, I will get back to, you know, when it needs. And then when I'm like, you know, I'm down here for a night, I'll get home late. tomorrow night, which means I'll see Romay the following day. So I won't see her for like the two

days. I'll just know that she's having the best time at home. I'm really lucky. I've got the best support system, village, you know, whatever you want to call it. I don't know what I would maybe do without without that. Yeah. And I know that not everyone has that. And it's something that, you know, again, I feel really, really grateful for all the time. But knowing that Romay is happy and enjoying herself means that I can just throw myself into my work and really enjoy that. of myself as well, which I like. Yeah, no, definitely, I think it's important and I think it's interesting because it's been a little while actually since I've spoken to someone who's in sort of relatively like

the earlier chapters of motherhood actually. Quite a lot of my conversations recently have been people maybe a bit more like similar to where I'm at in life where that early years is sort of, you know, you're moving on from that, your kids are growing up and it's still just as big a bigger thing, but it just changes. It's like a slightly different season, I guess. But I think that early bit for me was so much about, you're right to the balance is it. It's actually in a way it's a bit of a misleading question because it makes you think there's an equation that's going to work, which really so much of it is just about perspective and framing because if you do have something you care

about that's your work, that's also something you've put so much yourself in, you want to be able to pursue that and be ambitious for yourself and keep that bit of you that prioritised that and was a little bit selfish about where it stood in your life, but also not worry or feel too bad about all the guilt that can associate it. And even just the subtle nuances of language sometimes when people talk to you about work, oh, who's with your little one tonight then? Or, oh, is it hard to be away? And I think it's actually honestly probably taken well over a decade of the first bit of motherhood for me to start finding, to sue the lot of that actually

I think it's the biggest hurdle in a lot of ways I know it's not the same for everybody some people just didn't really they never felt the guilt in that way yeah yeah I mean your team so is it primarily women that you work with and lots of different generations as well or yes um do you know what I was thinking about this

the other day as far as the team goes and how many of us have children not not a huge amount yet quite a lot of the team's quite young but my partners in business are both family women and have three kids, two kids. Emma, my CEO has three grown-up children. Emily, sitting next to me, has two sons who are. There's children, aren't they? They're not toddlers anymore.

So there's an understanding also actually, even when it comes to the business and our investing, and things. We just went through our series B right at right before, like the week before Christmas, which was absolutely nuts. And it was during the time that no one knew I was pregnant. So I remember sitting on a train on the way home from Aberdeen after doing a meeting great with loads of customers that day at our counter. And, you know, we signed this deal. And I cried my eyes out, which I think I would have done that anyway. But maybe the hormones didn't help. But I was just sobbing on this train. Didn't realize that there was a guy sitting behind me.

so I hope that he didn't get a fright and think that was, I don't know, having a really bad time. I was having a great time. I was like, it's really good, it's really good. But even our investors understand family. And I think that at this day and age, everyone understands family. I think that for maybe it's entrepreneurs, maybe it's being self-employed,

maybe it's, I don't know, being just a woman in this day and age, but you can have kids and work. And I think that that trust, you know, trusting that, especially if it's something that you've built yourself, especially if it's something that you love and that you've poured a lot of yourself into the trust that that will not just fade away.

Yeah. Super important. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think you're right at the conversation. For me, I had similar things. It's almost like mentors that come along where you can have that intimate chat of going, I'm actually feeling a bit stressed about that.

And just those casual conversations can put to bed like so many of the worries. Can we take a minute for your? brand just to sing as praises. Can you show off to me about how much you've achieved, please? Because I'm sure you've put some very impressive statistics. But honestly, what a success. And, you know, to people listening, I can in no means underplay. How hard it is actually to establish a new brand in an already thriving world. The beauty industry is massive. And I know from so many conversations with people, you know, makeup artists, just the idea

of taking it on and thinking, I think I can find something for myself. It's massive. So to walk into, I don't know, Space and K and see your brand, you can't underestimate how huge that is. So congratulations. No, honestly, it's so, it is a really impressive thing. But come on, tell me some stuff about how well it's doing, because I know it's so lovely to hear it firsthand. It's just nice. And I think what I really love, and maybe it took me a little while to grow to love my story, because there's always, you know, a little bit of that imposter syndrome, that's really hard to go through life without any of that. I don't know what that would be like. But I come from counter, so I'm a makeup counter girl and that, to me, I loved those years so much. And I remember really specifically, you know, I remember a day

standing on counter thinking I could do this for the rest of my life. I'm having the best time. I had, you know, a bit of a following on social media, so people would come and see me in the counter. They all knew me really well because they'd seen me on social media and I was just myself on social media and then because of that I was making my targets all the time so I was like you know doing really well at work so the work we were happy with me and which I do think you know that's something that I always strived for I really wanted to try hard work hard and and be like be of value but my customers were the best and I had the bread the customer I had was so nuts it was like all the way from you know really young girls to you know teenage boys to really like old

grannies that I just loved so much that they would come and see me, you know, every weekend. And I just remember loving it so much. And everyone has their own stories and they're, like, everyone has such a story. And maybe that's a Scottish thing because we all ask each other for each other stories. And it is so fun. And it makes a day go by so fast when you're getting to sit down and actually, you know, learn about the person sitting in front of you, who you're, you're touching their face, you know, it's an intimate thing. Yeah. So all of that, I just loved it. Totally thrived. There's them, there's loads of like fun quizzes. you can take about your, you know, your life number and all these things.

I'd, like, see when I've got free time, I'll sit and I'll do these quizzes. I love it. Yeah. But I remember doing one and it told me that my, you know, my natural habitat is the marketplace. And it made me laugh because, you know, makeup counters. It's just like, if you imagine them all as stalls down the street, it's the same thing. Yeah. I used to make jewelry when I was really young and sell it at car boot sales.

I thought I was a genius, you know? And, you know, I remember as well, my mom would sit and help me do it. And she was so proud of me. and then eBay I would sell all my stuff when I was far too young to be using eBay. So I'm definitely, I've got that in me for sure. But what I think that I'm a deeply honest person. So when I worked on counter, you know, I would be working for one brand. And if I had to sell a certain product that I didn't like, I would have to say to my manager,

I can't do it? Like I really don't like this. But I do love this. So can I sell this one instead? So you had all that integrity right from the get going? And I was young and I just remember, Because it made me, it sat so uncomfortably with me. You know, the intuition where we're talking about, you get the opposite of that.

And it's like the stick. I always call it stickiness. It's like you start feeling sticky and you're like, I actually can't. I actually, it's not making me feel good. So all of that and all those conversations with customers and then moving online at that really pivotal time while putting a lot of effort into it. I just ended up with this mad dream job of being able to talk to millions of people about makeup products and beauty products while also sharing my life because I love the different facets of people and I love that you know you could see someone that you would maybe never talk to but you see

that they're reading the same book as you and you're like oh my god we've got that in common that's so nice so I deeply a people person have always been obsessed with product and formula had I think a natural skill at makeup which I mean I don't even that to me is almost like a wee bit too close to sounding egotistical but I am I just totally thrived everything about it and out all these little pockets. Yeah. And I love talking with people and communicating with people. I find that really easy.

So I just, I felt like I knew all these little secret things or all these little, little different things that would make a really great brand. And it was a brand that felt that, that warmth, that makeup counter warmth, but with that pro product and formula. And that, you know, the idea of me as a founder made me feel quite shy.

But actually now I feel really proud because, see, if someone can see me and see more of themselves and me than maybe they would see otherwise. That makes me feel really proud as well. I mentioned it before. It's hilarious. The papers love it. But I grew up in a council flat.

That's the first thing that they'll write about because it's that story of being a council flat to this. What they always forget to write was I grew up. You know, I lived in a council flat when I was born. Mom and Dad worked so hard. And they put in so much effort because they could see us moving towards. a different style of life.

And it was that that taught me that I could do this. Yeah, I was going to ask you about their work ethic actually. Because obviously that's something again that you'd be seeing, especially as an only child because you're sort of firsthand experiencing it. You'll be probably taken, I was on my own with my parents a lot when I was a kid. And so I was often the one sat with, you know, the other adults and carted around. And I think you do witness more that way than if maybe you're part of a big group of kids where it's like, well, you guys are going to be looked after there because taking all of you is a bit much.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. So they, they, what did, what line of work are your parents? Do you know what? It's like quite different. My mom and dad are really private people. I don't really talk about them too much. But, um, what, what I did see, and it's funny, I can see, I can see where I get certain

traits from. My dad is gift of the gab, big time. He, um, he's, he's, my dad, he's really smart. I joked him the other day. I was like, see if you die one day. I wouldn't be surprised if you're like some secret philosopher. Like, that's what you get. We have really kind of deep conversations like that,

which I've always enjoyed since I was young, because it made me feel clever, it made me feel smart, having these really quite high-brow conversations with my dad, who, you know, he's just got, it's just a deep thinker, I think. Yeah, but also he wanted to have those conversations with you, which I think when your little one makes you feel really seen, actually. Every night you get home from work

and ask if I wanted to come on a dog walk and that's when we would talk. Oh, absolutely, that's the classic thing of, you know, you're not making direct eye contact as well, so you can talk to them about anything. It's like being in a car, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I just love, like, I think about that all the time.

And then my mum taught me that you can literally do anything if you work hard, if you try hard. And she, you know, that neither of them, you know, own businesses or anything like that. Like I said, they had me really young as well. So I actually remember seeing their growth, like as people. Yeah. But my, you know, we ended up in a house when I was a living that was a renovation and it was getting renovations. and it was getting renovated from when we lived in that house to when I moved out to go out and be on my own in Glasgow,

which is when I was 18, 19 again. It was all kind of that time. But, you know, we didn't have the money for a renovation, so my mum taught herself. Like, I remember getting home. It's the most amazing thing. I remember getting home from school and my mum, who I'm sure she wouldn't mind of it.

Do you know what? I actually think they will really listen. It won't spoil her privacy if I know she can build a shelf. No. Do you know what? I just think that they'll definitely listen to this one because they're huge fans of it. as well.

Oh, sweet. I feel on, Ned. But I remember getting home from school and seeing my mum going around the perimeter of the house, chipping off the rough cast on the house and repointing it. Oh, wow. Next level. She built walls. She can do anything.

I'm not a DIYer at all, but she can literally do anything. She's super resourceful. So resourceful. And out of necessity, but also she loved it, which is great because then there's no resentment to what you're doing, right? Yeah. But she, you know, she'd been. out all summer doing this so she had the best tan ever and because she'd been working so hard she had

these like, who is it saying her corner arms? Yeah, like I was like I actually looks like a rock star she's so cool. She was just yeah just amazing so I and they definitely going through a renovation when you're a teenager I think

is really character building I remember jumping over the beams of the floor to get to school and being a cranky teenager and being like that this fucking nightmare. I just want to live in a normal house but actually you know we live in a renovation now we've not started it yet I'm dreading it to be honest yeah and now there's a bit of a timer on what we want to get done first exactly but I'm really comfortable living in a situation that's not finished yeah

work in progress yeah but they are they're they're amazing people and not in the way that you know I grew up watching my mom and dad have these big businesses big business people but just as people you know the most incredible better than most I'd say I can hear it for sure also I was thinking about you in the department store and the sort of halcyon period of that and it's true the thing of firstly the stories what is the big department store in Glasgow

that I would have gone into when I bought my raincoat when I was last there do you know probably the really old fashioned one on the cobbled the main drag well it had to be House of Fraser right yeah it must have been down that way Debenams is where I worked

which is all obviously shut down now. And I just realized that you asked me to talk about VIV and I'll literally just go in. No, no, don't worry. I've got all my map. But I was thinking, when I went in there, because I had this time when, the last time I was in Glasgow,

I hadn't bought the right, quite with me. So I was like, right, I'm going to go in. And I had such a lovely afternoon in this department store where everybody just wanted to talk. So I had all these lovely conversations. And I think it's interesting

the idea of you on the counter because you're basically, getting this survey and insight into people's relationship with makeup, what they feel confident in, what they're looking for, what's working on a range of different faces. So you're kind of building up your database of what would eventually become your brand. But also when you talked about imposter syndrome in business, I think there's a Trump card that can come when it's not about the business acumen,

which you can find support, you can find people at the right time to give you the support, because once you take away the product, building up something commercially is kind of similar things for different styles of product. But what you can't have a conversation with a pickup is how it feels to be a fan of it, how it feels to be the one using it. So I think if you're someone that is, you know what it feels like to walk into that shop and get that excitement of like, oh, new things to try, oh, they've done this product, that's clever, oh, I would definitely want to try that.

Oh, that applicator. that's the stuff that someone in a business meeting, they're not going to able to touch the size of that. But you'd obviously been building it up. But then there's another bit of your storage, I think, is unusual. Because I've worked with loads of makeup artists, and a lot of them fantasize about having their own brand. But what is quite unusual is that they also are their own subject.

Not everybody puts themselves in the makeup chair. So you're kind of almost like doing the two things at once, which actually now we're a bit more familiar with. But I think when you started, that was actually still quite a new thing to be the recipient of your artistry. We're used to it now. Used to, no, for sure. You're so great. Not at all.

So it's interesting because I think that for the uninitiated in that world, it might come in a different angle of, you know, this sort of wall of what social media's become. But actually, they're kind of, I would say, missing the point of how nuanced when people engage with those YouTube channels it is. It's like when, you know, in the 90s, when you would know what TV programs to watch at what time. Exactly the same thing. Your mainlining, something you're interested in. You can get all the information, all the master class, the intimacy, but it's there 24-7. So you can kind of build that relationship quick. Yeah.

But I think with that in mind, when you're building your brand, how integral is it that you're front of house? And did you always want to be front of house? Because that's, that is a slightly different hat, I think. Yeah, I think so too. I remember coming up with a name for VIV, I actually found really hard, which is so daft because it's the second part of my middle name. That's not tough.

Yeah, but sometimes it takes a minute for something to click. Yeah. And there's loads of places you could have taken it. Yeah, yeah, true. Do you remember some of your other front runners, or they never made even the light of day? There was no others. There was no others, honestly.

And actually, a lot of the work was done before the name even came. You know, I'd been working on it for quite a while. So what I really like about the name Vave is that, People that know me will know it's mine, but people that don't know me, it doesn't matter. Because Veev itself, it's a lovely word. And it's, I remember when I saw it written down, I was like five letters starts with V. Reminds me a VIII a little bit. Really think I like this.

It's a nice word, isn't it? I think I always think like that as well. Yeah. It has a written down. That's the first thing I did was writing down. Yeah, makes sense. And also, there's a really lovely saying in French Juad de Vive, which means it's a spelt slightly different, which is a wee play.

It's a wee playing. Yeah. but which means joy of life and I was like, well, I really like this. I really like this. So the reason, like, you know, I love the idea of people not knowing as mine. I love the idea of people that find V and then find me and then have someone to associate with the brand that it's a bit of an educator or a bit of a, you know, a North Star.

If you've got any problems, you know, you can go and find videos or whatever from me. I think it was obviously really important that I was in the brand. And it's actually, it's where I wanted to be too. but the way that we did it was I do think quite clever because I was never a model in the campaigns. I have been more recently because things like complexion a lot of people that have known me for a long time know that they wear the same shade as me

so it would be silly for me not to be a shade in the complexion line-up. For a long time all the campaigns I did all the makeup and I was seen to be doing the makeup but I was never in the images and it's because it's just not what I wanted to. want it to be a vanity project. I can see that because that's the message it would send out immediately if you're not putting yourself right and sent it in that regard,

is that I'm happy for this to be its own beast. And actually also thinking it over for people when their name becomes the brand name, sometimes you can experience a loss of ownership of your own self in that way. And once that's out there, that's kind of, I mean, you hear lots of stories. When a business gets big, So I think there's a nice, and I say this is a huge compliment, a nice sort of quite ambition to that as well,

because it means if the time's right, you've kept yourself, which is actually pretty genius. And a lot of other people out there might be like, wish I thought. Because it must be weird, mustn't it, if you, if you've been having your name talked about in third person? Especially if there's loads of other people involved, I think. You know, if it's a totally, I mean, no one really does anything by themselves now,

I wouldn't wish it for myself either but when you know the business you know what it does it feels like the business it's another entity there's so there's so much where me and the business crossover and where but it can live by itself and I think that's really important

and then it also means you know like you know I I was going to say I suppose I live by myself as well I'm definitely deep rooted in it because I love it so much of course but I think yeah everything you've said I think it's really important yeah but it also allows it the ability to

You can follow your eyes with that. I want to be bigger than me. You know, I'm happy. I would be really happy if Eve was just, everyone was talking about that. Not me. I'd be fine. I'm actually quite,

when I think about it and I think about other founders of beauty businesses and the way that that is, I actually am so happy being the makeup countergirl. And if we can capture that and put it on socials and that's what we can do, then great. But when it comes to being the face or a celebrity behind the brand, it's just, it doesn't feel, completely in my bones

but at the same time it is because it's social media and I'm really comfortable on social media which is kind of like that's a bit juxtaposed isn't it? Yeah but then you can own that whatever that looks like to you on that day you can be in that space without any pressure on you to take that on when you don't feel like it which I think is actually really cool

it's giving you all the chance to be exactly how you want to be in that moment but when you were building the brand how could you know where the gap was in the market and you must no one must know what was out there better than you I think do you know actually I do remember the first collection we did was really selfish because I just had again that intuition but I just really wanted to make this stuff and it was like because I felt like I've not seen it I really want it I know that loads of my like so many

of my audience feel the same because they are so similar to me and what they like and what they dislike so it was a selfish collection for me and my audience really it wasn't thinking about the audience outside of you know who I was already talking to. And it was amazing. And, you know, it made no sense. You know, see if we'd had a lot of people in the room that are data analysts or whatever. Ten of our scoes were lip products.

And it was COVID. Everyone who's wearing masks. So, you know, it was maybe raised as a question a couple of times. And I was like, oh, it's fine. I was like, don't think about it too much. But the products flew because it's not about, you know, being able to walk about, you know, out proudly with your lip stick. It was for, it was for ourselves.

I didn't have makeup so much. in COVID. I mean, because it's my job, sure, but I was doing it on lives all the time and people would do it along with me and it was just great. And then as the team grew and we, you know, we had proper processes put in place. It was definitely, you know, there's a combination of the intuition for sure and we are an emotionally led brand because I am an emotionally led person. But I, you know, we have ideas for products. We look at the, the calendar. in our strategy and where the gaps are and what's trending in market and what would be best suited so it's really it's quite sophisticated now it's quite a sophisticated combination of all

these things that set us up best for success I think but when it comes to there's certain things like I'll get samples through from briefs that we've put out to labs and I can touch it once and be like that or not it's not right or touch it once and be like that we can work with this and it's a really strange thing that I can just I just feel like that. like I know. I really love days like that sitting with my MPD team because they always end up just putting it on their faces. Yeah. And it's really fun, really, really fun. And how, how quick is the processor if you has an idea for something and then you sort of going through the formula process and then it being the product? What's the sort of timeline for that kind of thing?

You know, it's quite long. And it so depends on how many like iterations. There's certain, I mean, there's a product that we've got already, Sunset Blush Bam, which actually I think you've tried, right? Yeah, I really like it. It's a really powerful. to come with me to Australia. Oh, I'm God, I'm good. Yeah, it's a really lovely consistency and I like the way you can build the colour. It's easy, isn't it? And for the longest time, I don't really like using powder blushes, but I'll put on maybe like the lipstick I've got on, but that doesn't always blend that well. So it's a nice, you get a nice, more dewy, but it can be a bit, it doesn't always stick in the same place, but I really like what you've done. I'm glad, I'm glad. So yeah,

I was thinking that's already like, I'm like, oh, a new staple. So that product, for example, that's finished and we are doing a shade extension. It took us nine submissions to get the shade right. So that takes time, you know, especially if we're not going to Italy, which we don't always go to Italy. More often than not, that we don't go. It can take weeks between submissions. Why is that weather?

If we go to Italy to the labs, we'll see if we're sitting in the lab. Quite a lot of our labs are. Can you choose which country you go to because I would choose Italy as well? Yeah, yeah, I know. Right? I actually we were talking about going to make up in Paris

which is a big convention but the timing and I was like that oh they don't know but I'm going to be pretty pregnant I don't think I can go but it's great we've been to Italy

a few times to the labs there in Italy and we've got South Korea we've got Japan we've not been to South Korea or Japan yet but I'd love to one day but if we were in the lab we could go back and forth

and get it done really fast so we do do that and the team go actually to get you know projects done within the deadline times. But if we're not in our rush and it's just back and forth, it can take a week and a half between samples

when it's nine, that's tons of time. And then sometimes projects are just super simple, randomly. You know, you brief the lab, they get it really right straight away. We put our actives in. We do our test,

and we do, you know, if it comes to complexion, we'll make sure that it's absolutely right. Things can, it really is so variable, but things can be either easy are awfully awful. I guess it's such a learning curve as well and as you expand it and experiment

with things and have new ideas. Do you have like a specific person in mind who the customer is? Yeah, we do. We do and I do but when you go and we've got a permanent Glasgow store now which is so exciting because that is like the biggest full circle moment to me

our customer is so different. They're all so different but what I think connects them all is the way that they want to feel and the way that they want to feel in themselves. And there is something, there's something magic in these products that when you sit down and you have that time

or even that customer has that time with themselves and they're putting these products on, that glow that I mentioned that I saw my mum have when she sat down and did her makeup, that's exactly what happens when someone's using our stuff, especially when they're in the store and they're getting it applied for them

and they're getting a bit of a lesson on how to do it And if, you know, they're not super confident, there's a lot of people that don't know how to do their makeup. And they're, you know, in their 40s, 50s, no one's ever really taught them. I think that some of those customers have a bit of an embarrassment around that because they feel like they should know. And what makes me really proud is that they come to us to sit down and learn.

So our customer, you know, sometimes I think, does our customer just look like me? Is it, you know, women of my age? And then I think, no, it's not at all because it's like, who I was when I was a teenager and also who I'll be when I'm 60 and I think it's more of maybe more of an attitude and a I suppose a bit of a zest for life and if you don't have it yet you can you can have it yeah there was a really lovely we did these panel groups this um what is it called focus groups oh yeah so I was behind a mirror listening to these people which I've actually done the other side of that I used to

do the market research thing yeah because when I was a teenager it paid quite well yeah yeah yeah it's good So as soon as I had to lie about my age, I did a few, like, alcohol ones. Yeah. But, you know, it's a really easy way to come out of, like, with, like, 30 quid. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I mean, we paid 80 for hours. I think it was more than that.

Sign me up. But there was some, there was a couple of comments that some of our customers made that really have really carried with me since. And it was because they know me and they feel like they do know me, which they do in so many ways. And they can see that I'm a normal person. but I'm not, I'm quite unapologetic with what I want to wear or how I want to show up. And that doesn't mean always looking great. It sometimes means looking actually not great, but being so fine about it.

They said something. I'm not going to be able to take word for word because I can't remember. But it was something about being able to feel cool. Like I feel like I can, you know, that there's a space for me. Maybe it's like that. It's like a space at the table almost. Like, I can use these products and I can be a part of this brand and feel actually really cool and I've not really felt cool before. And I thought that was really lovely.

Yeah, and actually also maybe an adjective that doesn't always get used that much actually in that world. But being cool is actually great. Feeling cool is great, right? It's like there's a quiet confidence about that. It's not super, it doesn't need to be super loud. And actually maybe it's like empowering. It's really empowered to feel cool because you actually, I think it's like that. old thing, you're not cool if you say you're cool.

Yeah, exactly. But my hairdress or jet, he's hilarious. He always says this to me, he's like, I mean, I would never say we're cool, but we are actually really cool, aren't me? Like, yeah, we are. So I think I quite love that people can have that little, it's almost like a little secret to yourself, like you actually feel great. Also, just your idea of what cool is, changes as well in a nice way.

And then you could become, I think it's like that proper acceptance of yourself, isn't it? Totally. And with, and with, going back. to when you had, Ramey, all the worries you had about your relationship with work, were any of them grounded? Can you remember how it felt when you first did your first tutorial? Do you know, I'll be really honest. I never had any worries about my relationship with work, but I think other people did. But kind of, you know, a little bit in my periphery, there was, I think, a nervousness, which was, I think, unwarranted, I can just say it's unwarranted.

I really, I went back. And I don't know. whether there's a, I don't know, it's not stubbornness, but I just knew it would be great the same way that this time, I know it's going to be great. And I think that I've put, you know, there's a lot of work going into our structure and routines to make sure that I can do the work that I need to do. And it's amazing because a lot of my work I can do remotely,

which means that I can do it during nap times and I can do it, you know. There's ways of working that I'm really, really proud of. But I remember I had eight weeks from my mat leave. but my husband had it too, because we work together. I know I've not talked about Jack too much, but we've worked together for a long time. And he's a photographer, videographer,

that does his own thing, but also works within VEVE and also helps me a lot with my own stuff. But we both, like, had eight weeks totally together with Romay when she was born. And it was the best eight weeks in my life. It was so, so good. I would just lie in my bed, and Jack would feed me, and I would feed this little baby. And she was the, like, super.

easy baby again. Again, see when it comes to luck and the gratitude I have, she was just this wee perfect thing. I remember being visited from the guys at work. And she just slept in arms the entire time. And they were like, she's very relaxed. I was like, she really is, she really is. So those eight weeks were amazing.

And it really set us up for success because the modern world, when it comes to dads and how they parent, you know, they're not babysitters anymore. Especially if you're, you know, if you've got a husband that actually wants to be a dad. It's great. So that's, yeah. And also you guys are a team with it too.

Totally. And that's actually a bit of a parallel because I work with my husband as well. And I think it's actually really nice if you can share these things. We're not doing the same jobs. We're complimenting each other. But it just means that, yeah, we sort of tessellate quite well with all of that. And I think it's actually been probably part of the reason why I've worked at the level I have in terms of like keeping coming because it's not the same as if I have to leave everybody

every time or turn my attention away. It's kind of melded into what the fabric of what our lives is. That's great. It's the same for your kids too. That's really, really nice. I love it. Whenever I hear as well about, you know, partners working together, I always, I think it's lovely. And I know that it wouldn't work for a lot of people. Yeah, no, fair enough. I mean, whatever it works. But I think I remember COVID, it was like the first time a lot of people were spending actual time together and they're like, I actually hate you. I've changed my mind. So when COVID hit me and Jack, we spent so much time together anyway.

It was, you know, we were locked in the house. I was like, perfect. This is great. Yeah. Essences of it, tiny parts of it were great. But I think, I think, you know, the way that we've got it sussed out is really lucky. Yeah. I feel lucky all the time.

Definitely. Yeah, me too. and I think it allows you, you know, it means that when you're daydream about your work or, you know, you can shift from that into what's happening with your domestic life without feeling like you have to say, oh, sorry, I was thinking about something that's not part of here. It's not quite as compartmentalised in that way. And I think that's probably allowed for more, like, free, the thoughts can come and go a bit more freely, which is a nice thing.

It also means sometimes the flip of it is it's harder to boundary. But I think I get the impression you're quite good at that. If you say you're going to put your phone down, I think there's some areas in my life that I am for sure and other areas that could do some work but it's funny you're so right about the blur because sometimes I joke, I ask Jack at the end of the day how's your day and he's like, you know how maddie was

and I'm like, you just tell me about it anyway. I edited your social content. I was like, I sat across from you all day. I'm just checking you darn it. That's great, thank you. I mean, I was thinking actually I don't know if this would resonate with you. you, but when you've been talking about, you know, the privacy around your parents and the brand name,

I wonder if, like, you strike me as someone that maybe you might not have had this big, big master plan, but you've sort of sown seeds that I've actually built in the ability to follow your nose without actually losing too much of things that really would have been very hard to put back in the box. I don't know if you've had, even if it's not knowing that they would end up in a success, It sort of protects you from something Because if you'd shared everything about Your, I don't know, your parents or something

And then you get to the end of your You know, you're doing your socials and you're thinking Oh, that video didn't really click in the way And then it's out there, isn't it? And you feel like you've kind of given something away Yeah At what price in a way. Totally.

I feel pleased about that quite a lot Of just exactly what you say. I think that I think that it was maybe just quite embedded in me that I know what I am at like liberty to talk about and when it comes to me I'm quite an open book and like I mean there's there's videos on my YouTube channel that span for like 10 years and honestly who knows what I've said knows but I am I used to be less less filtered but only when it comes to myself so even my daughter you know I don't share her face on social media

there might be a wee glimpse to the side because it's really hard because she's the best and I actually do I get like I want to I want to share her and I And that's, you know, people have their own choices and that's fine. But there's something about it that I just intuitively, I'm going to, I need to get that word tattooed on my head. But I just know that that's what I kind of want to do. Yeah. I absolutely get that.

I can see that completely. Yeah. And I think. Trust exercise with yourself, isn't it? With my parents as well, I think, again, it was as much my choice as theirs. They're super proud, but they're like, no. Which I'm, again, I think it's a great thing. I think it's a good thing to have those boundaries as well.

Yeah. Actually, back to your parents again, I wonder as well if part of also what's been, you know, an additional kind of unexpected, you know, bonus with your family dynamic is that because they're young, we're young parents, their take on your engagement with, like,

the world of YouTube and social media at large, wouldn't have been, they would have understood it because they'd basically like, not that much younger than your mum, I've realised. They come about four years younger than her. It's not very much.

No, the, um, I'm trying to think if they totally got it, which I think they did, but there was absolutely, when it comes to judgment or their own biases, they weren't there. Yeah. It was very, and you know,

we all go through different seasons of life. I've definitely gone through my own seasons in life already. Yeah. Very visibly. And they've just been a support the whole time with no judgment, which I think is just such a nice thing. It's beautiful. Well, it's kind of when everything else falls away,

that's what it comes down to, isn't it? your family and and it sounds really wholesome and positive to have all around you. I did want to ask you one last thing about something you introduced me to that I hadn't heard of before and I hope I'm saying it right but is it called Ikega. Do you know the way I knew you were going to say that? And that was so weird. Yeah, Ikegaie. Well, it really made sense to me but I hadn't actually come across it before and I know

it's like there's books on it that like best sell at it. So I'm maybe a bit late to the party but it's essentially sort of the Venn diagram of where everything crosses being the right thing for you to be following but you could maybe talk about it actually i wish i was better at this but yeah you're right it's a diagram and it kind of crosses over what you i'm going to get it wrong but it's maybe it's what you can do professionally what you what you can do that makes you money what you do that you love and what do you do that brings value to the world or community um i think that's right yeah no that sounds right yeah But it's such a lovely exercise to do anyway because you can kind of see, it kind of shows you where your values are.

And if there are things that you love and that you're good at that cross over with how you can make money, then brilliant. That's kind of what happened with me in makeup, I think. But another thing that I am really passionate about is honestly talking about things like this. And like I love my journal and my writing. So I can talk about a little bit of that. That's how I kind of figure out what I want to be doing. with my life at any given time if I've got free time that I want to be thinking about you know my social media and what what I actually want to do what would bring value um so you'll

do you actually have is it pen and paper like Josh you think yeah oh yeah and I do I do list of my phone but you've got really nice handwriting do you know I don't at all really not and I'm a bit of rich sharp beautiful handwriting thanks so much no it's meant it's absolutely nice I've got awful handwriting um I wish I did have nice pinmanship that would be great but I do I love I love I love writing and putting pen to paper is, it unlocks a different part of your brain. It really does. And I carry this big silly notebook around with me.

It's really heavy, but I love it. Even though it gives me a bad back. But I can't recommend it enough. And the Ikega, the book, is really short. And it's a lovely read. And it talks a little bit as well about, you know, there's a village in Japan where the life expectancy is something nuts, like 110.

But it's because they all find their Ikegaai even after, you know, retirement. You know, a lot of the time people will retire and they'll get quite said in today. They won't really do much. But this village in Japan, you know, they've all got gardens and community centres. And it's just how I think we were all meant to live with community around us. I think honestly that's a big part of why I still live in Scotland. Because I've got brilliant friends that we have a book club.

That we actually read the book and go every month. And usually it's wine club, not for me anymore for a while, which is fine. But see just having that date with my friend. Yeah. So important. Yeah, that dropping anchor again, isn't it? Yeah. Because actually I think there's quite a lot of how you think about things that I think are like my values as well. I even heard you talk about the importance of science being a bit delusional in what you do.

And I think if you work in a creative world, it's that thing of like building the bridge to somewhere else, even if it's like a bit fanciful. But it keeps you on the positive side of things and keeps you quite optimistic. and I've definitely got quite a lot of that as well. I think it's brilliant. I think seeing there being no other way for yourself than this amazing thing that you're going to have, that it does, it tricks the energy around you

and yourself into believing you're just going to have it and then you'll end up with it. There's a few experiences in my life that are kind of proof of that, if I'm honest. There's an amazing thing that's... Do you do much writing? Yeah, I do a little bit, actually, yeah. there's a there's a really nice

journal prompt exercise and it's basically you just write a really lovely story to yourself about exactly where you are but you go into the five senses pretty deep and I wrote this this story to myself that has a lot to do with

my current medical state you know me being pregnant my current condition but also the house that we're in now which I made up in my mind and wrote about it and there's There was loads of things going on in this little story.

And one day quite recently I was looking around and I realized that it was exactly that story and I was sitting in it. And it was phenomenal to the point where I kind of wanted to be like not a preacher of this, but I was like, everyone needs to do this. Yeah, yeah. Everyone needs to do this.

But it's amazing. Yeah, well, and also it's a good way to channel what you're thinking about. And your perspective, I think perspective is so important, isn't it? How you frame what's going on is a really big thing. We have one thing in common, I realise, as well, that might be an unexpected one to you, but we both got married in Italy with only 60 people at the wedding. Cool!

Yeah. It's quite nice, isn't there having a small wedding? Yeah, and I think about that all the time. Do you think about that time all the time? What, my wedding? Yeah. I do, actually. It was a really happy one.

I mean, we've been married for 20 years now. Great. And in our friendship group, we were one of the first people to get married. married so it was really fun and like not like crazy crazy but you know we were all kind of young and silly exactly um so it's really fun yeah i i loved that time so much and it was just nice because you know all our friends and family were there for like a long weekend and they were all silly as well there was there was my dad i remember my dad said that he was out drinking a coffee and he just saw one of the guests one of my girlfriends just running from one side of the grass to the other at like five in the morning and he was

just like this is hilarious but it was just the best it was really great yeah i love italy me too recommended we went to we went to florence when romey was three and a half months old the italians love a wee baby oh yeah they do and it's children don't you yeah and it was great we went straight actually we went straight from florence to london and i tell you what i don't think they like they like kids as much in london no well if you see children in a restaurant here in the evening you're like why are they out it's all generations out till midnight isn't it yeah and it's the best I'd like that for myself one day. I'd quite like to retire with my garden and my community in Italy.

I'll need to learn Italian though if I want a community. That sounds good. I don't doubt it. You'll be so busy with the factory there, all your new developments in the brand. You'll be fluent. Yeah. Oh, thank you. While the sun's been hitting my face, I hope it's brought up my supernova skin.

Yeah, you look gorgeous. What do you think of these false eyelashes, though? They're quite a lot, aren't they? I love them. I have my eyelashes, like, the extension's done for the first time last one. week and I'm quite self-conscious about them actually. I think they look great. And you're about to have a really busy time.

Yeah, I thought having that done is great. At least there's a tiny bit of me always done. Yeah, I love it. I think it's inspired. You've inspired me to go and get, stick some lashes on. And thank you for coming to talk to me. That's a pleasure.

And I just know we should probably like have a date in the diary for about 10 years on for all the new developments in your world. Because I don't doubt there's way, way, way more to come. It's exciting. Thank you. Sophie, thank you. That's funny that I finished the chat asking Jamie what she thinks of my eyelash extensions

because speaking to you now, I can tell you that I've just had them redone. I know. But they were so handy when I was away. I literally could wake up or roll off a plane or anything. My eyelashes just look really complete and done and happy. And I thought they looked quite. extreme when I first did it.

Everybody kept saying, no, they don't make extreme, they're not quite, I'm used to them already. And then I got used to them. And now I'm a lady with long lashes. I'm kind of loving it. The woman I've been seeing, you can find her. Lash addiction is her Instagram.

That might be what happens. She was telling me right from the offset. You're going to get addicted. But it was so lovely to speak to Jamie Genevieve. What a warm and instinctive business woman she is. I like how she has followed her gut and obviously has a lot of canny with her to arm her for how to roll out of business, but is led by passion and opportunity. I think it's interesting, isn't it? I've realised how many people, look, there's lots of people who succeed well in business where they're just very good at the corporate side and they can understand. how to make numbers work and it doesn't really matter what the product is but they can just work a

business plan but the people i get really excited about are the ones who are proper fans of the thing they end up working in so they've got that unique blend of seeing opportunity and going for it but ultimately they're also the person that gets really excited about the thing that they are involved in and so they find the joy in every day because they've got the kernel of just the thing they absolutely love is the thing they've ended up to make also their business. So Jamie is absolutely an example of that. And I wish her all the best with everything and her second pregnancy. It's exciting.

I know there'll be a new baby there soon. Meanwhile, back with me today. So as I said, I just squeezed in a lashes appointment on my only day at home actually of this week because I just got back yesterday from San Francisco. we had such a good time with the kids. I'm so glad we did it. What a fun city. Absolutely tons to do. And we hit the ground running. So I got in last night. I don't know about you when you get back from family trips, but I just unpacked everything. So all our suitcases are empty. I've been putting on washing loads. I just want to get things back to normal as quickly as possible. It becomes quite compulsive, actually. And then today, I sort of got out of bed, I don't know, about eight-ish. Didn't do too badly. and I've just had a very strong coffee.

And even though there's an eight-hour time difference from where I left and where I'm now, I actually feel all right, touch wood and all that. But Australia and around the world was so much fun. Had such a good trip. It was so good to do those gigs. And this week, I've got lots of nice things, actually. I've got a couple of shows, a bit of filming, a project. I'm not sure I'm allowed to talk about actually.

but I'll tell you about it in due course and more of the podcast coming to you next week so I can smell roast dinner Richard's making a roast it's Sunday afternoon now the sun is actually kind of half shining here in London town so good to be seeing a bit of that vitamin D as well listen thank you for lending me your ears

thank you to everybody involved in the podcast of course Elamot does the artwork Richard who does the editing Claire Jones who does a production Jamie Genevieve for being such a glorious guest this week you for your ears and I will see you again next week. All right. Take care.