Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 180:Helen Dukes

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Helen Dukes is an entrepreneur and DJ, and mum to 2 daughters, 11 year old Anya and 19 year old Lottie . She is the founder of Disko Kids, a clothes and accessories brand that I love for its roots in music, festivals, sparkles and fun. It also has at its heart a deep connection with charities such as Winston’s Wish. This child bereavement charity helped Helen navigate the death of her partner Ade when their daughter Lottie was just 3. Helen told me how she strove to create video memories of Ade for Lottie, which was very hard for Ade at the time, but which Lottie really appreciates now, aged 19.We talked about being a female founder and the passion for her business that has kept her going throughout the past 10 years. Helen says that Disko Kids is like her third child - frustrating at times but she loves it to bits. I know that feeling all too well! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lestepster and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, age between seven years old and nearly 22. So I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spilling Plates. I don't know, this is probably pretty risky. I'm going to give it a while.

I'm speaking to you from Saturday morning. It's just gone 9.8.m. The sun is shining and, yep, you're right. You can hear the voices of young children, two 10-year-olds and a seven-year-old to be exact. Having a very excitable morning at the end of a sleepover. I don't know how long I've got before I get interrupted, but I'm going to wing it.

I've had about, four hours sleep. But I'm feeling really good because last night was a great night. I didn't get sleep to sleep to back too, but it's because we were celebrating the feeling my husband, Richard's band and their London date. They played a sold-out Shepherd's Bush Empire last night, which happens to be my favourite venue, happens to be my doorstep. These are happy days. But it was so glorious. So this was a tour that they're currently doing. They finish in about 10 days. And it's all to celebrate the 20th anniversary of their first record, 12 stops and home. 20 years. But what's so sweet is that that the album, firstly, clearly adored by so many people, the Holy Shepherd's Bush was just a sea of

arms in the air and singing along to every single song. And secondly, I think there are a lot of people out there who feel like that album, I mean, obviously it's very close to home. But that album really soundtracked the time Richard and I first got together and had our first baby, Sunny. who's now 22 next month. So as a family, we were all there, arms in the air, like dancing on to everything, just absolutely such a glorious and happy, happy occasion. It's lots of really happy memories baked into that record.

And yeah, I just felt really wholesome. I was there with Sunny, my mom, my sister, my brothers, some friends, and then the rest of the band, who became like, they're like extended family these days. So yeah, a really, really good time. And Richard's home at the moment, but he seemed to go back on the road to Brighton to continue the tour. They've got another eight dates left, and I'm actually considering going again, because I loved it that much.

So given that I've got these kids in the house, and I probably haven't got very long, I'm going to quickly tell you, well, not quickly, I'm going to take my time, and I'm going to quickly move on to telling you about this week's guest, who's a lady who's called Helen Dukes, Although to me she is Helen Disco Kid. This Disco Kid is her brand. And I first came to know about them in lockdown when Helen got in touch, actually, and sent me a jumper from the range.

And Disco Kids as a brand is just grown and growing. It started off in 2016 when Helen was making T-shirts for children, given that she has two children herself. She couldn't really find on the high street what she was looking for, sort of characterful, fun, music. inspired t-shirts for kids. Helen was born in 1970 and grew up during the disco era and absolutely loves music. She also DJed in the 90s and still DJs occasionally now.

So, you know, big, big music lover and music is a big part of her life. So her love of music is interwoven through the designs that are on the disco kids' t-shirts and sweatshirts, but it's now broadened out into other clothing. I think she's trousers and skirts. and she also does gifts and fun stuff. Check it out if you haven't seen it. Helen herself, so entrepreneur and DJ, she has two daughters, Anya who's 11 and Lottie who is 19.

But there's more to the story. She's not just an entrepreneur. She also has intention behind her brand because there's a lot of fundraising that goes on with it, namely a charity called Winston's Wish, which she found out about when she was navigating the, heartbreaking sadness and trauma around finding out that when her partner, Aide, who just sounds like the loveliest man, you will hear Helen talk about him. He sounds absolutely incredible. A year after their

daughter, Lottie was born, they discovered that he had a very aggressive terminal cancer. So a very bleak prognosis and sure enough, by the time Lottie was only three years old, she lost her dad. So that's a lot, isn't it? And during our conversation, Helen made such a lovely picture of aid and the happy, happy times they had together as a couple and as new parents. And how she had to learn fast, how it feels to be a partner coping with a, you know, another half going through that and then preparing for the fact that she'll be raising their child without him.

So how she navigated that extraordinarily difficult time and how he continues to be part of her world and Lottie's world. And indeed, Helen's new partner and her second daughter, Annie's world. These are the people that make us and the love continues. So, yeah, thank you so much to Helen. We kept in touch since lockdown. And then I think it might have actually even been Helen that said I would be really open to talking to you about this for the podcast, which is a great honour to me

because I really appreciate how special it is and how valuable and how poignant when, you know, people come and sit opposite me and we talk about things that mean so much to them and give me the privilege of an insight into their world and the things that have shaped how they go about their lives with their motherhood and their world. So a really beautiful conversation with a lot of lightness around the edges. I mean, Helen and I got on very well and have a lot of shared loves. Music, yes, clothes, yes. Family, yes. But also it turns out knitwear, because this is crazy. I opened the door to Helen, my front door. We're both wearing the same cardigan. And I don't mean variations on a theme. I mean the exact same card. And Helen, I can't speak for you. I own tons of cardies. But on that day, I was like, I want my really bright, this beautiful, bright, bright, bright, pinkie red. It's a gorgeous colour. And Helen obviously

loves it too. And it's a great one. I was like, oh, my goodness, we're wearing the same cardigan. So I really recommend it as a way to immediately bond with somebody you haven't met before. If you just wear the exact same thing. And it makes you both happy and you both rock it. So thank you to Helen. And let's leave it to her and I for this conversation in Helen's words because she really did such a brilliant job of taking us into her world and expressing all that mattered to her in this conversation that she wanted to convey. So here we are on that love you then. Helen, it's so lovely to meet you. Oh, good to meet you too. I was just trying to think when I first started chatting a little bit.

I think it must have been during lockdown with your disco kids' brands. I think I might have sent you a sweatshirt before then. Was it before that? Yeah, I think so. The one with all the Halston, Diorichie. Yeah. Is that pre-lockdown? I'm pretty sure.

Oh, God, no, don't know. No, chronological brain as well. It's still very much in use. But yes, I was very much engaged in lockdown. Hey. And thank you. Can I just say thank you on behalf of probably everyone just for cheering our Friday night. It was a tough time for me, especially because my dad died.

And it kind of, yeah. It just livened our week up. So thank you. I saw that when I was going through Instagram and. and sort of like delving a little bit more into your story about your dad, that must have been such a lot. And was it COVID-related? It was COVID, but, you know, it was kind of a blessing

because he'd been in a home with dementia. He had vascular dementia for about, I think it was three years. And, you know, it was, yeah, it was kind of inevitable. We wouldn't have seen him for that period. My mom, you know, he would have been so confused. Why is people, you know, I don't know. But I think we feel now it was a bit of a blessing. But yeah, but it was still hard because, you know, I lost my dad.

And I think, you know, you agree. When somebody has dementia, anyone that has any parents that have dementia will appreciate this, is that you kind of, you lose them when you first, you know, they start showing the signs and they sort of forget who you are or they aren't the real person you know anymore. So, yeah. I think that's really well articulated and you're right. I must feel almost like you lose them twice in some ways.

That's right. Yeah, definitely. And also I was thinking, you know, why you're just. you were talking about your parents and how hard that must be. I was looking at you and thinking, I think we're kindred spirits actually because you've got your disco necklace on and your music is the answer with a big disco board t-shirt. And I think you and I probably have the same thing where we take such a tonic to be found

in the sort of happy place that our work can take us to. Absolutely. So how long have you been running your disco kids brand? Yeah. Yes. So we started in 2016. 10 years this year. Lottie was reminding me on the train actually that this whole 2016 trend that there's a lot to talk about and I should be doing it so I think our journey home will

be right what happened in 2016. Well I did a little photo thing from 2016 on my feed and I showed my 17 year old, nearly 17 year old. He said you're doing it wrong. Oh I get that all the time. Yep. So that's not how you're supposed to do that. So maybe Lottie can guide you from the that. Oh, she's a rat. Yeah. Congratulations on 10 years. I mean, I've had quite a lot of female founded businesses on my podcast because I am so inspired by entrepreneurs and people who have gone for it.

How does Helen of today versus the sort of new beginning 10 years ago, how has it changed your relationship with business and also, you know, what do you think you could advise to the person's start? now. Oh my goodness. Well, I think you've got to have a passion for what you're doing. And I've always worked in retail. And I've kind of slogged my guts off to what the term is for other people's businesses in my time. I've really worked hard in every career I've done. And I think doing it for myself is now, you know, it's for me. It's for the business. And I enjoy every minute of it. I do say disco kids is like my third child. I love it to death. And I also have days when it's like, Oh my God, you're so frustrating. But it is like my third child.

And everything I do for that business, you know, it's going to be the end result is how it carries on. I love that we work with charities. And I think if you're starting, you just, I guess your question is, yeah, you just need to want to do it, I suppose. There's got to be something driving it when you're feeling. Exactly. Because there will be a lot of it where you feel like you're pushing the boulder and you think you've got to really have that passion. Exactly. And as much as I'd worked in retail, there's lots of the business that I didn't really understand or things that I didn't know.

And I religiously listened to books, talking books, podcasts on, you know, businesses and things that I could sort of do better. And so, yeah, I've kind of always had an interest in it and just tried to push myself, which is hard sometimes because sometimes I need somebody else to go and just get me going. But, yeah, at the moment, things are good. And I enjoy every day. I've got a great team. And, you know, it's, yeah, it's really good at the moment. Well, I would probably say as well, part of the skill is when you get that team around you that they are the people that can help you get the motivation when you are flattening a bit.

So I think that's probably another element of, you know, what you've got to build around you. Totally. It's enough momentum because that's such a key element. But what was the impetus to go it alone then? What was the starting point? What were your dreams for disco kids? What were we first started? So, well, previous to that, my partner, Chris, who's Ania's,

dad, Lottie's stepdad. We started a business called No Way Back, which was a men's brand, and it was kind of dance music culture, inspired designs. He was the designer because he's a web designer, graphic designer, and I was the kind of, you know, the salesy marketing. And and I, yeah, I'd never thought I could sort of run my own business. And I think he gave me that, you know, encouragement to do it and had all the tech, I'm so crap with tech, that he could do that side of it that I felt confident to do the other side, come up with the design ideas as well. And it was going really well. And then had Anya and thought, oh, let's do. That must have been quite early on into the founding of the business, am I right?

So, well, nowhere back was. So because if, did you say she's nine? She's nine now. Yeah. And the business is 10. Yeah. I'm guessing that the baby was supposed to be quite a part of the beginning of this. Yeah. So on maternity leave, we were doing the nowhere back side of things. Right. And then when she sort of hit one, two, it was like, okay, let's, we need some t-shirts for you. Let's get you as a little model.

And I think my friend Kira had suggested, well, yeah, do some kids' t-shirts. We did it separately. And then disco kids sort of took off. We had women that wanted the roller disco design on a adult sweatshirt. And then that kind of became more popular. And then, yeah, I kind of went the disco kids way and Chris carried on with nowhere back. And yeah, the rest is sort of, yeah, where we're. are today. And for people that aren't yet familiar with your wares, what can they find when

they search up disco kids? Okay. So now, I guess it's changed over the years. We started with t-shirts, obviously, music-inspired designs on t-shirts and sweatshirts. As we've gone on, we've kind of expanded the range. I feel like if somebody's going to a festival, they're going to need jewelry, a bag, and all the things that go with the, yeah, going to a festival, we've got some sequin jackets coming this summer again and fans. We've done some cool bags. So I'm kind of getting to know my customer more every year and trying to do the products that they're going to like, I guess.

Yeah, and when you're saying all the sort of festival where that, I don't know, from where I'm standing, it looks like that's just been exponential in terms of what people are looking for and how it's been integrated into the everyday, but also festival culture is just a lot more prevalent and people going and getting into that aesthetic. Exactly. So what do you think's been driving that? Do you think it's because there's, those club kids have grown up and they've got family. Yeah, exactly. The old ravers. I think, yeah, I feel like I do, we did this sort of, you know, who is our customer? And there's, you know, you got Kirsty who's the kind of, that we aspire to sort of send things to or that, you know, she's our kind of one customer. Then we've got sort of, I don't know where it's myself because, you know, I want to produce things that I would want to buy. And then there's the sort of the old kind of, the old kind of. Yeah, which is me as well. The old raver and the clubber that used to go clubbing

that almost wants to be showing that they love music. I think when I go to festivals, I always see one of our t-shirts and it's just such a kind of, oh my God, can I say? Can I have a photo? And I go running over. That must feel crazy. It is brilliant. Yeah.

And that's kind of what I wanted to do, you know, produce something that somebody wants to wear and sort of be proud of. So, yeah, it's hard coming up with the designs, but I feel this year I'm really, we've had a tough two years, but this year I've got loads of ideas and yeah lots of things happening this year so I guess you must need a lot of skills in in pivoting as well because you've got to be you're so sort of plugged into what's going on in every direction definitely and so being able to navigate the twists and turns of small business life must be. Totally yeah I mean even colours you know with different we don't we've just started manufacturing but trying to preempt future t-shirts we're lucky in that up to now and we still do we we have. have a local printer. So we have been sort of buying the t-shirts blank from, you know, UK suppliers and then printing through him. So we've both grown together. He started about the same time.

And he was in his garage. It's so sweet. And now, you know, he just does anything for us. Turns around T-shirt prints in 10 days. So we can, without having to order too many, we're sort of, you know, not over-producing and just keeping it sort of, you know, nice and in-house and supporting local. And yeah, but it is, and that's, quite a, I think that's a plus to the business that we can react quickly. We're not looking at spring, autumn, winter right now. We're just, we can, I'm still doing designs for this summer. That's nice, though. Be so reactive, basically. Yeah. You can really be responsive to what was going on and, and what I want to know a bit more about your relationship of music, because

am I right, you were DJing when you, yeah, young as well. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still DJ now? I've just started again, actually. Well, yeah, it's, it's weird. I had to kind of almost. You've got some next door, actually, have you? Oh, am I? Well, I've bought your vinyl to sign. Brilliant. Yeah, so that all started when I was a student in... Do you want to hear the whole story? Tell me what you're going.

Yeah, so I was buying records and sort of seeing female DJs in the clubs that I was going to. Not many. And most of the DJs were playing the records that I was buying. I was thinking, hang on, I want to do this as well. And left Liverpool, dragging my feet, my mum and said, come back, you've got to get a proper job. I wanted to become a DJ. And I spent, I think, the next year,

earning every pay packet just went towards the first pair of decks. And then I spent my 20s working at next, but then the weekend's trying to get, you know, get a job in DJ. And I did, I got a residency at club called Wobble in Birmingham. And then...

Wobble, that is a great name for them. First all night are in Birmingham. And so played there every week. But then I started getting, I had an agent, Phil got me an agent, and then I'd play all over the country, up to Newcastle, down to Brighton, but some weeks I'd have to literally drive back to work

on the Saturday next, which is what was going to DJ the next night. So I was, how you do it, well, as a 20 something, it's fine, but I could not do that now. And then I'm sure we'll cover the whole thing that happened with, with aid in a bit, but then I've sort of started again more recently, literally in the last few years, because I sold my decks after he died and I just thought I would never do it again and then had a bit of a get my mojo back in, I think it was 2013. A friend let me play on a boat in Croatia. And with, yeah, and I think I've actually done those gigs, but I've done a club night on a boat in Croatia. So coming about and just having the best time and thinking, oh, God, I do miss this. And did a few gigs with vinyl. And

then the whole digital thing happened. And I'm so crap with technology as anyone that knows me will tell you. that I've had to literally learn how to, not DJ, but how to use the equipment again. Yeah, different things. Memory sticks, files, download. Yeah, I just sort of have to. No. That's very funny.

It's all in one little stick. I know. So that's been a challenge. But I kind of, yeah, I got to play Camp Festival the year after we saw you there. So whatever year that was. And then last year I played at a local festival called Mostly Jazz, which is in our local park. And played before, it was done. Dave Lee, who's a bit of a hero of a DJ.

So, yeah. And what do you go under? What's your moniker in your DJing? The lovely Helen. The lovely Helen. It was given to me. I've not named myself the lovely Helen. Just to put that out there.

It was a, there's a mix mag was a sort of a magazine back in the 90s. I think it stopped now. But Dan Prince used to write the club country updates and there was loads of clubs in that day. And it was Helen. And then he called me and the lovely Helen. And it kind of stuck. I was giving it and then I'm I think that's good

and I'm picturing you're playing like club classics disco tunes yeah a bit of sort of disco edits and nothing to kind of never went down the trance route always quite sort of more house and Spiller was always in there

back in the day and yeah just sort of deep house soulful grooves and but now a bit of everything a bit of kind of Fleetwood might be thrown in oh nice so yeah just I'd love to check out your set and yeah That sounds good.

I mean, I usually, so you've got two daughters, you said nine and 19. Yeah. And I usually would say, so what was happening when you had your first daughter. But I do think it's relevant that we scroll back a little bit more because you mentioned AIDS. Yeah. And I know he's informed so much of still what your life is now. And, you know, you mentioned how your business also works with charities. And part of that is in testament to him as well.

Yeah. So could you tell me a little bit about AIDS, please? Yeah, yeah. So I met age used to go to Wobble. That's how we met. I'd finish DJing and we'd just have such a laugh behind the decks. He was a friend for God, so from sort of 93 or 4 till 99, which is when we got together. I finally realized you are the funniest person and I absolutely adore you. And we got together swinging around to Shed 7 in our dining room, disco down, funny enough. That's actually my favourite Shed 7. Yeah, and mine, which is one of the T-shirts as well. But, and yeah, that was the start of our relationship.

We had Lottie in 2006. And then it was, yeah, a year later. I'd started a new job at IKEA. And he found a lump under his arm. And national health, absolutely brilliant. They moved so quickly, I think about two weeks later, he'd had his MRI. And we got the news that it was stage four cancer and melanoma. And I just didn't know what stage four was.

It's like, is there a stage five? And obviously, it's a terminal cancer. So everything kind of changed from that moment in our lives. Yeah. So. I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine how that must have felt. But if we, before that, so it sounds like you and A had such a lovely slow burn with your friendship in the 90s.

Yeah. And then it's, I always think it's so romantic when people say that they then were like, actually, it's always been you. You've been the person I go to with news, the one I want to spend time with, the one who makes me laugh. So you have, you know, what, I get in my maths, 13, 14 years building up to your first baby all through this lovely romance and lots of, you know, playing together, building your life together. Did you always want to be parents? Was it always something you were hoping for? Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, we'd partied and we'd done all that. And I think, you know, we, timeline is difficult,

but I actually asked him to marry me because it was a leap year. So whatever, I think 2004. That's cool. I know, on the London eye, we went up on the London eye and I had it already. And the whole thing sort of clapped after I died and stuff. Oh, what, in front of the other people in? In the little pod. Helen, that's adorable.

I'm pretty brave, actually. I know, yeah. I think I just wanted to get things moving. But yeah, and just show my undying love. Did you go down on one knee then? I don't think I did. I think I just nudged him and went, boy, we got the ring out.

I think it might have been a toy ring or something. But, no, yeah. And that was, that was 2004. And, yeah, we then we didn't even talk about marriage for years. Had Lottie, 2006. And then we did get married, but it was obviously after we had that news. So it's post-the-diagnosis. Yeah.

Wow. And I think, because obviously once you know the chemo starts, the operation start, and he had brain surgery. He had something around his liver. The melanoma had spread everywhere. So they just tried to sort of get it and take it away and then start the chemo again. So it was potluck when that wedding would fall. But I think he'd recently had some sort of, either the kidney,

operation was about two weeks prior. So I can remember at the end of the day, he was kind of exhausted, and we were like looking through cards, and I think he fell asleep. There was no sort of rump and sex on the floor poster bed or anything. No, everything changes, right? I just, well, I am a bit flawed because I just can't even begin to imagine the trauma of being headed in one path and then finding out everything. everything is not the same as it was the day before.

And the cruelty of that. Yeah. And also it must have been so hard for you both to get your heads around when you've got this little one-year-old and you're making plans and looking forward and adjusting to new parent life. I mean, that first year is such a lifestyle change, you know, from just like night and day, isn't it? So you're finding your feet as new parents and getting to,

know your new baba and also someone you'd been with for so long and suddenly seeing them as a parent and then seeing you as a parent. That's a big shift in a relationship too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So to go from new parent to patient and for you to take on the enormity of where do you put your own emotions and fears when it's your other half that is going through the treatment. what was the support like for you? Amazing, amazing. I mean, firstly, he was the perfect patient because he was, he just, he was a funny person,

anyone that knew him. And even if they just met him, it was like you'd known him for years. He just, you know, he was one of these adorable characters. And so he made it very easy for me. And he made people laugh, even when they were the ones trying to care for him. You know, he was always probably thinking about everyone.

else didn't want to be a burden but we we've moved out to the countryside which was part of the in between his work and my work so we weren't actually in Birmingham but uh all our friends from Birmingham would come over on like rotation and bring little parcels i mean i'm a terrible cook aid was the sort of cook in the in the relationship and you know just them bringing something it was just amazing and and just having that support even though they were so far away but yeah everyone friends family sister uh everyone was just brilliant Really, really, yeah. And I guess, well, at first,

I think it's an amazing thing. He sounds like he was an incredible guy, but also to support you with that humour, because I think when that happens, it gives permission to a lot of different feelings because there's so much going on, but being able to bring a bit of, well, either gallows humor or just likeness

into something that is otherwise so serious. Exactly. I think normality, yeah, I think that, looking back, it's the normality you want. you don't want people going, oh, you're okay. You just want them to be normal with you. And that's really hard. It almost needs to be an unwritten rule for everyone in life, you know,

just talk to the person and be normal. You know, I remember where I was working, people would sort of almost like not say anything to me, just sort of walk past me in the corridor. And it was, you know, you want just to be able to carry on as normal. Yeah. So when you think back to sort of early years, Flotty, Is it, how is your brain dealing with those memories?

Is it kind of, does it feel they're just like a big wash of different things that pop up? Yeah, a little bit. Knowing I was coming here and we and Lottie have been to London twice this week. So on the train, we've sort of talked about it. And I've kind of told, you know, I've said, oh, this is what I feel you have, you know, experienced it. And she's been very good in saying, actually, Mom, no, or I didn't know that about Dad. or this is how what happened at school and this is how I felt and this is what, you know, and it was quite, because I'd probably blocked a lot of it out, you know, you go through it

and then you're on to the next stage. She's off to uni, that's what I'm dealing with now. But looking back and reflecting, you know, it was, yeah, a lot of the schooling could be, could have been better and how she was, not for me to do better, but I think the school, definitely. but prior to school, it was all about making memories for her. So I just went, you know, if it was the 70s, I'd have had my old super eight camera round every minute. I was literally filming her the whole time and taking pictures

and trying to build up a memory for her because I was so conscious that, you know, she'd need to know her dad. She's three and my earliest memories were five, I think. I don't think I can think back. So, you know, and his, all he wanted was for her to remember him. So it was like my job was just to try and join them together as much as possible. Yeah, that's a lot, isn't it? I mean, I can't even imagine, really. Was it something you and A. talked about? Or was it just a sort of give-off?

Yeah, I think he found it quite hard. I was the one sort of, oh, we need to do this, this, this, you know, after looking onto Winston's Wish website and seeing the things you can do, some of those things he probably didn't want to do like write a letter to her i mean i don't know yeah it's really hard i just i made him do it and i think she is appreciative of that but i don't know it's it's really hard for that person i shouldn't have pushed i shouldn't have you know maybe done that so hard you know stuck with the videos and and even him talking to camera i think you can see when i'm filming him it's it's a different aid it's a bit of a serious aid it's not the fun one that I've just told you about.

It's the kind of, he's probably, you know, what do I do here? Well, how do I talk to my daughter of 10 years in future? Yeah, that's also abstract as well, isn't it? And there's been, you know, obliviously bopping around being one, two, three. And I think it's such a personal experience. And we'll touch more on Winston's wish in a minute because it's so wonderful, the resources that are out there. But ultimately, there's lots of universal truths

that can surround a lot of these really big life moments. But then there's also the things that are so only about the three of you in that room. Yeah. And for example, and I wouldn't know, this is not a comparison to your experience in any way, but my only thing I can think of in my own life as seeing my mom and stepdad navigate his diagnosis from cancer. of where we knew it that that would be, you know,

unless he'd been hit by a bus in the meantime, that was going to be what happened to him. How they navigated that and how they never spoke about the after and actually my step didn't we shut it down a bit. He didn't want to talk about that. Yeah. But I guess it's a very unique thing when you're also raising a small person and also knowing that their memories will not be the thing that they can rely on.

Yeah. Because, I mean, I suppose it's a mixed, a mixed emotion because on the one hand if she'd been a bit older there would be memories yeah but then at the same time there's something about the fact that knowing she won't remember those bits that means that you're simultaneously thinking or there's there's things about now that I don't really want her to necessarily carry all the time but also I need to build something in for when she does need it yes yeah yeah and there's nothing that can show the very undulating path of grief more than a child because they will

the grief will raise itself when you're not expecting it. And it's all the future events. The first times, the needing advice, the, you know, obvious things like weddings. Yeah. These things are waiting. They're dormant, but they will awaken things. Absolutely. Yeah.

The Oasis gig was that for us because he loved Oasis. She has, you know, become a massive fact. I made such a strong sense of who this guy is. I feel like I probably going on the dance floor with him at some point. Come with you. He's with us. I'm sure he's done whenever there's sunshine. And we realized that, you know, just that connection of music, it's an untangible thing.

But Aide loved Oasis. She is listening to music that he loved. And it's kind of like brings up that emotion, doesn't it? She just said yesterday. She heard a record and an Oasis track. And it's sort of, it was him talking to. It's almost like a sign. And if it gives her that warmth, then that's a good thing.

And music is such a, you know, you know, a bit drawer of emotions anyway. It's just, you know, we all love music and our family, and it's just, yeah, it brings a lot of things together and brings up emotions. It's an incredible thing like that music. I've always thought, I mean, I've often, you know, remarked to people that it's amazing that when it comes to big life events,

a wedding, a funeral, it's often music that we've chosen as the art form that would accompany that moment. Absolutely. We can be moved by so many things, But music is a shorthand to so much as well. And I suppose it's because it's a bit of an evergreen in that way. You know, if you hear, you know, the way something's produced

or the way I hear it, a lyric hits you or a chord shift, it can get you there again and again and again. I couldn't listen to your murder on the dance floor after hearing it in lockdown. It was almost like a different record for me. And if you played it now, I'd probably start crying. I just, I don't know why. I just, I think it reminds me of the kitchen discos, but in a fun way, but also that it was all the happiness of emotions.

Yeah. Yeah, well, actually, I actually worried about that a little minute at the time. Like, am I forever encasing this in Amber for a time that's so difficult for so many people? And for me, is that what I'm doing for my association? But let's talk about Winston's Wish, because there's a big part of your life now and part of what the brand has done so much fundraising for. Yeah. For the uninitiated, what is Winston's wish and how does it help people?

Okay, so they're a child bereavement charity that we found. It was actually through a friend from school who had been through the same thing as me. Her husband had been diagnosed with a terminal cancer and she said, oh, you know, try, look at Winston's Wish because there's a wealth of information on there that will help you. And there was just from everything to, you know, should she come to the funeral? should she, you know, how do you say something? How do you explain to a one, two-year-old, no, three-year-old at this point, your dad's dying?

You know, what is death? How do you say that they're ill? Things like telling the child that they're ill is not good because then they associate somebody being ill with, or if ill is mentioned with another person in the family, it's like, oh my God, no, that person's going to die. So just little things like that. They suggested the memory box.

which is something that Lottie still has, where she would put anything and everything in there to, you know, remind her of her dad. So there's a little pair of her first trainers that Aide had bought her little nightca. At the funeral we had, and this I think was probably them as well, they suggested having memory cards that we gave out to everyone. And bearing in mind, the funeral was just packed. There was, you know, outside in the surroundings and everyone that was given

a card and loads of people filled them out and sort of put some memories about AIDS so she could then read when she was older and it's lovely because we got them out the other day when I did that post on Instagram and it just reminded me of a lot of the things about aid and friends that had said some lovely things so do you think sometimes some of these things have helped you as well then yeah yeah true yeah yeah and we don't might not be that present in that way if we're not so consciously building something for yeah the kids yeah and we do we do talk about him a lot and I think that's quite personal to people. AIDS family aren't so much

a sort of talking about things whereas our family are totally open about everything. So you can't push people but I do believe my relationship with Lottie is strong because I think we do talk so much and everything is open

and we do talk about aid. Every year we kind of remember him and we do something or every time we hear a record that is his record then it just, you know, sparks a conversation. You know, she told me yesterday she hadn't realized what our wedding song was. It came on Tratis.

That was right. It came on Tratis. And I said, oh, this was our wedding song. And, yeah, I hadn't told her that or she didn't. I probably told her back in the day. But I can never say it, La Rituel by Sebastian Tellier. Oh, gorgeous. Yeah.

And then here comes. That's a carsy choice. Here comes the son was played at his funeral, the Nina Simone. version. So that is always quite poignant. We've got a design actually, here comes the sun, which was kind of, you know, for him. That's why I wrote when you said when the sun's streaming in. Yeah, it's weird. At school, just, yeah, on the sun thing and signs, whenever Lottie had a school event, the sun would come beaming in like this to sort of, and I'd just start, well, you're well up anyway at school, don't you? And then you've got this extra. But yeah, sorry, I digress.

I told you I'd go off on tangents. No, no, listen, it's all pot. It's painting such a vivid picture, but I'm also imagining you as newly, well, there almost needs to be another term for it, because I was going to say a newly single parent by default, but you're not really that. You're still a parent with him, but he's just not there. It's not quite the same thing. And I'd imagine that comes with a pressure,

or maybe just a way of grieving, where you would want to, I feel I'd be the same, I'd want to involve his name and his world around us, but also I would feel sometimes a responsibility. Yeah. To him, because he did not choose to leave you. Yes, exactly.

He did not want to leave you. So you're building him in to the present tense. Yeah. But that's on you to make it so. Yeah. Because as she gets older, she's not going to, the children don't live like that. They don't draw on something.

from the early years and say, let's make this part of now. It's not an instinct that comes with childhood. No. So that's on you to say, oh, your dad like this or this is where daddy would have sat. Actually, we went to hit this restaurant before with that, any of those things, whatever it might be. Yeah. And also we've got, you know, I met Chris years after, you know, I died and then Chris became a father figure to her as well.

So it's kind of that you've also got that mixed. Yes, you know, I really want Lottie to remember her dad, but she also has another sort of father figure in her life that you kind of, you know, you're sort of trying to not, you don't want to talk about him too much because you don't want that person to feel, you know, in the shadow of aid, but also, you know, that they're both respected. Well, in that, like, how, how was it for Lottie when, you know, well, no, not too personal to her, but it must have shifted the dynamic a lot to have a little sister come out of that. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, and they get on really well now.

But yeah, that would have been hard. And I think even just me getting together with another person, And I remember one incident, I'm sure she won't mind or he won't mind me saying this, but she squeezed some pink paint in his trainers that were at the back door. I think that was a little sign to sort of say, hang on, I want mummy for myself, you know, because after he died, it was just me and her for a long time. And having somebody else come into the equation, the dynamics change. Yeah, and she'd be protective of you too, because whether they take it on consciously or not,

I think it's a lot to see, and she would have seen, you know, you go through so many emotions. How did you navigate that? How did you navigate those early stages of grief with a small person? I think I probably tried to hide it a lot. I didn't want to, for her to see me. I just, yeah, she was the most important thing to me and I did everything. I was almost overly, you know, with Winston's wish, I'd sort of make sure I was, I wanted to do everything right. I wanted her to grow up in the way that would give her confidence and just it not to be affected too much.

But I think at the back of my head, I was always, and I always would think, is this because she lost her dad or is this because she is this type of person? And, you know, it's really hard when kids are navigating through their school lives. And school in itself was quite kind of hard for her because you're that person that has something different about you. You know, any kid with something different is you just feel, you don't want to be different, do you just want to be normal? So not having her dad. And we looked actually on the way up here because I knew there was some stats about how many bereaved kids there are in school. And it's something like one in 29 have lost either a sibling. or a parent, which is quite astounding, really.

It is. But then she was that one in that class. And, you know, as she's gone to her seat, when she went to senior school, there was about three other people that she found that had lost a father actually in the same year, which is a bit strange. I know. So it kind of, you know, it does follow suit.

But I guess also it's not something you can see with the naked eye. So you might not always know what these kids are growing up with and what their home life looks like. But thank you for looking at up, actually. I mean, that's, I think it's hard as well. Like, we want childhood to be so protected, I know, as parents, we're doing our best to sort of put soft padding over any corners. Yeah. And if anything happens that takes them out of that, you feel, you just don't want too much seriousness to be surrounding those early years, but it's absolutely unavoidable sometimes.

Yeah. And school, you sort of throw them into school almost, don't you? without you have to rely on the school and the curriculum doesn't include teachers aren't sort of trained on how to deal with grief children that have lost parents and I think that showed with Lottie in the fact that she had some situations

where I think she was reminding me on the train actually that she's had a, I have to get this right because she's sort of like a supply teacher or somebody stood in when the other teacher was doing getting papers together or something and this teacher they were doing something on death was involved or there was a coffin in this video and I think obviously that's quite triggering for Lottie and she was she was crying this was

about year four I think so she was nine and yeah obviously couldn't hold back the tears and this teacher had obviously lost her husband and she said to Lottie my daughter doesn't cry all the time and you know you can imagine Lottie's I mean she was nine I'd I don't remember the conversation we would have had, or even if she told me, but about a week later, and this was the first year that I didn't go into the school and say, can you make sure the teacher knows that Lottie lost her dad? You know, four years in, I thought it would be common knowledge that, you know, everyone would know. And this teacher was new, her form teacher. And she called me in, and Lottie, she said, oh, I've just got this picture. I don't know if you want to have a look.

And basically, they'd been set the task of a good world and a bad world. And this was the same teacher that said this to Lottie. And I think this is the anger coming out in Lottie. I can only think looking back. But Blessed Lottie, she'd drawn on the good side. It was like aid coming down from heaven. And she was like looking up. And then the bad side was a coffin with him in it.

And of course to this teacher that knew nothing about Lottie's background, she was probably quite disturbed as to why she was drawing these things. But you can see from, you know, if that teacher hadn't, you know, got so, you know you can't stop crying type of thing and had that had the empathy i know i know and so different to how we are encouraged to think yeah now about small people anyway so i'm really quite aghast actually exactly to put a shame into emotions is an extraordinary and i i know there's people like mark lemmon who has an account i don't know if you're familiar with him he's an account that sort of deals with grief he lost his dad when he was quite young and he does a lot with winston's

wish as well. That's another reason with the connection. And he's campaigned a lot to try and get grief covered in the curriculum. I think it might have not got through. It's a very smart initiative though. Yeah. And it will set everybody up in such good stead. Yeah. Totally. Because I do think, you know, when you were saying before when you first got AIDS diagnosis and people weren't even sure how to speak to you at that point, I mean, I think there's so much that we need to do just to encourage communication and it doesn't have to be heavy-handed it's just a willingness to be open to having that chatty. Yeah, one little section in whatever the, I don't know, sex education could it just be put

on the end of the hair or something, you know, it's not going to take, what's it going to take just to pop that in there just on how to, yeah, because also if we don't, if we don't empower people and how to deal with the shadows and life, then actually they become so fearful of them or ashamed of thinking of them. I know that with one of mine, he was having really quite dark thoughts. And as an adult hearing some of the dreams, you were thinking, you know, heads on spikes and things. But I was like, the last thing I wanted was for him to think there's something wrong with me for having these thoughts. Because actually, there's loads of darkness and they've experienced grief.

And I didn't want anything to feel like it was. taboo or to be sort of pushed out the way or distract yourself with something else and don't know. But it's normal. Yeah. I think that's a really healthy, and I think a lot of other cultures actually are

probably leaps and bounds ahead of us with that kind of thing. I actually love the Mexican approach with having a day where you have photos of loved ones. Oh, wow. You know, yeah, the day of the dead celebrations is all about having a day where you almost open the door to that other world and you actually talk about your ancestors and relatives, but it's done as a celebration of their life.

I think that's really healthy. Yeah, definitely. That's a whole other conversation. But I was trying to think as well. I think for you as well, one thing that must have been, or I would potentially find really difficult to navigate is decision-making because I think when you're in a partnership with someone raising a child together, you're making decisions all the time, big decisions and micro-decisions.

Yeah. And I think particularly as AID sounds like such a radiant, positive person, I'd imagine after he wasn't in my life, I'd be thinking he would know what to do or what would he think of this decision. Yes. Yeah, totally. And also for your daughter growing up, she would have this very perfect idea of a parent where she never got to see him being, you know, down or crossing me of the realities of how we are.

Yeah. would see it in you. When you have your, you know, when you're being a, you know. It was funny, funny, because the decision making thing, I, I've been thinking a lot about recently as a single parent that, yeah, it is all the decision. That's what is the mental load, on top of the mental load even, becomes, it's like, yeah, decision making is hard for any mum, isn't it? Because there are so many things going on and what we're dealing with.

But, yeah, sometimes even just a decision is quite overwhelming. And, yeah, you're right. when you're not in a partnership, that is really difficult. Yeah, I just, I guess, I have become very strong through that and then, you know, Chris and I aren't together anymore and just being on my own,

I think I've really, and hitting 55 and probably post-medapause and all of that, I think I've become, you know, the strongest I've ever been in my life kind of thing through all the stuff that, you know, has happened to me. It does give you strength. And if the worst happens,

then you can only kind of just be positive. about what comes and try and just embrace everything. Even things like me asking to come on this podcast, you know, I wouldn't normally do that, but sometimes you just think, right, I'm going to try and, yeah, live my life and do the things that I really want to do and push myself.

I can see that in you. And I think that's really, it's very inspiring. I'm thinking about other people listening where they might be going through something similar. And two things occurs me. One, I thought, how did you navigate the emotion of anger, anger because I think if it had happened to me, I think I'd also be pretty furious.

Yeah. Furious at all the other people that aren't having to go through. Yeah. Such cruelty like that. Yeah. No, definitely. I think, yeah, I think things like, because we did a lot of things together. We had a lot of, we had loads of mutual friends, obviously the wobble community where

there's a lot of people I met there and I still have, you know, good relationships and friends through. And what, the thing I, from a personal point of view, was that. doing things as a family. Going on holiday together, we went with my sister and her partner, who funny enough was age friend, they met at our wedding and got together. So it's a little connection there, but is missing out on gatherings and family things where you do with other people.

And yeah, I guess that's from my point of view. But yeah, for Lottie also because she's not then with other families. We've got my sister's kids at the same age as Lottie and Anya give or take a few years. So that's really nice that they've got that sort of close family knit. But, yeah. So I guess for navigating that sort of anger, sorry, yes, I totally digress. Would it be? No, I was just thinking is that through support and keeping good people around you to kind of involve.

And I suppose it's just something that is part of the stages, isn't it? Yeah, I think you just got to take, it's happened to me and this is how it is now and you just try and, yeah, do the things that are going to make you happy and, you know. And also you aren't the only one. There are other people out there that have gone through it as well. And I imagine, did you find, I mean, that woman who mentioned Winston's gift actually to get the school gates or whatever saying. Yeah. Happened to her.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. remember you're totally that you're not alone yeah and then the other thing i wanted to ask is about now that we're well i suppose about 16 years on from when they died um how does how does grief change shape over those years uh i guess it like anything there's that analogy isn't there of a stone that you become i can't even remember it but you uh you actually time does heal as you know

with your own grief. And you find your own way of kind of, you kind of put it in a box, don't you? And sort of try and forget about it a little bit. And then bring it out when you're happy to do it and think about that person, certain things can always trigger me.

Like music, again, just totally gets me and flaws me some days more than others. I find when I'm running as well, I kind of, if I put certain music on, it reminds me of people. And yeah, I just,

yeah, Did you think there are some days where it might be like I actually want to go into that mood and just let it all out? Yeah, and look at pictures. I think I was looking at something the other day and I had the time to sort of absorb myself and just look to old photos and stuff. And I do that with my dad as well. You know, you just kind of want to, you want to remember them, don't you? You want to kind of. It feels nice to bring those feelings here.

Yeah, you don't want time to go forward. But then they're just left in the past. You want to bring them along with you and just and talk about them. I heard somebody, it might have been, yeah, I think it was on a podcast recently, that at Christmas they all bring something to, you know, the family event might be all going to, that is, reminds them of that person that died. And I thought, that was a lovely idea to sort of keep that memory alive and why you brought that thing and what it reminds you about the person that is not no longer with us.

That's so sweet. Yeah. We used to do actually every year on his birthday, it's sort of tailed off a little bit, but the first year after he died, we did a festival called Aidstock. And we had, I was, I DJed at that actually and had a big 10. It was quite a big, big event. And every year it got a little bit less. We did, sort of, then it became a lunch.

But yeah, every year we do. That's actually incredible. So I guess like Flagstock. Yeah. Yeah. But that's such a, I always think that that's such an incredible testimony to that person, that they, you know, for you and his relatives and friends to, get together to remember him

you couldn't say a more gorgeous thing about the kind of person he must have been. That that's the energy that surrounds their absence and getting together and just saying we want to just come together and celebrate and toast his life and all that he meant.

I think that's so powerful. I love that. And I suppose it must be I've been a bit of a a turning point now that Lottie's a grown-up technically. I know. I don't. I know.

I know. I know. I know. As a mother of 21-year-old, I know that feeling well. But I think, you know, that you can now have the, you know, the style of your relationship and also the conversations you can have surrounding it. And even to be sat on the train, you know, coming here and talk about, what do you remember of this? And is that how you felt about that? It's a funny feeling, isn't it?

When they can really look back at childhood is a sort of, it is a completed thing. Yeah, and they're nearly the age when Aide and I might have sort of met kind of thing. So how old were you when you met then? Well, well, I started at Wobble at 20, I was 23. It's quite good. I'm 1970, baby, so it's really easy to remember what year. I'm 79, which is really clunky. Yeah.

So, yeah, so I would have been about 24, I think. I know it's five years off, but it's like just the fact that she's an adult. She's talking about going to Leeds Festival and so, oh my God, yeah, it's really strange. But I think even her, she's quite sort of, she doesn't go clubbing loads and she's not like the party animal that I was when I was her age. Yeah. Their generation are a bit different with that stuff, aren't they? We were.

We were. Too wild. Banging the price. I don't think it could have parented me. Oh, dear. Yeah, I'm sure we could have some stories for doing us. Maybe that could be a different podcast. It could be somebody like,

before it went on the gram or something, and be all the things were really. glad didn't end up on social media. I mean, they say that people don't have evidence. I actually took a pick. I used to take a camera virtually all the time. So I've got some, not, yeah, just when we used to go back to somebody's house after. God, I bet they're brilliant photos.

They are. They are so good. They come out. They're the ones that Lottie maybe doesn't need to see. But yeah, there's a picture of aid actually on a massive mattress. We were at some park in Smevick or somewhere random. And there's just a picture of him in a sombrera. This is probably nine in the morning.

after a big night out and he's just lying on this mattress, but it looks like a piece of toast. Classic photo of him. And when you came to be mother for the second time with your second daughter, did it feel significant seeing her hit the same ages that Loddy was? Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, very strange. And almost having that, it was quite light as being a parent that I've got somebody with me And, you know, she was an easy baby as well, you know, very smiley and just, I don't know,

their second children, I think, always are, aren't they? They're quite relaxed or you're relaxed, so they're relaxed too. And it just seemed a lot easier. But I was also very caught. That was when Lottie was probably hitting. I think when she hit nine, and Winston's Wish pretty much, I think said this, that you almost hit another level of grief. So it's kind of the hormones are raging.

And I think they, she got really. angry then you're talking about anger and I think that was what showed first with her when she hit nine and it was like why is this happening and and she had some more counselling at that point and I think it's just that why you know not understanding why her dad's gone and why me and so yeah quite a quite tricky with two and and and one having one situation and then of course lot he's always got that well I haven't got my dad around and uh I think ania now she's nine she's able to sort of compute everything that Lottie has been through a bit more. I didn't really think about that.

But of course you've got these two daughters navigating such different emotions. And then, you know, for Lottie, you know, going through those stages, turning to double figures and teenagehood and sort of, yeah, you're so self-reflective, aren't you, like all the things about you. These are similar to my friends. These are things that aren't similar. Like these are things I really wish were different. Yeah.

You know, there's so many hormones racing around then anyway, let alone if you've really got something pretty huge and different to a lot of your girlfriends, no doubt, to carry as well. And I think I was the, there's one other friend that had a boy, her son, a year ahead of me. I think we were due to have, I had a miscarriage before Lottie, and I think we were due to have kids at the same time. So I was only the second of our gang to have. have a child. So you're kind of, you're sort of on your own, aren't you when you're, you meet other

mums, but they're not your, you're sort of the friends that you, you kind of, they know you really well. So that was always kind of, yeah, I'm on my own. But, but also a positive because those friends were able to come and support. I think it's very different when you're, if all your friends have kids, once you have kids, it kind of as much as, well, if you live near somebody, you can support, but it's much harder to then sort childcare to go and support that. person so I was really lucky that they could all just zoom over to where we were living from Birmingham and bring things without the kind of added thing for them of having children that were teething or you know they were trying to potty train or anything like that. No that's very true

actually and I bet some of those friendships were so solidified by yeah you know being by your side during that time yeah and they all you know they all talk about aid still as well which is lovely for lottie too because they've got stories. Yeah. And I think there is a comfort, isn't there? I mean, when you talk about the festival, that sort of collective grief, like they meant the world to me,

but they meant so much to so many other people. Yeah. And isn't it incredible how, you know, we can let in these emotions, we can let these people in and love it in that way so that when they are not there, you realize how open you've been, and much of them you've been allowed to let in.

Absolutely. There is a real power in that. I mean, it's hard to know that, you know, you never experience anything like loss. It's such a huge thing to carry, but it is the other half of love, isn't it? The grief is continuation of all of that. And I think, you know, thank you so much for painting such a picture of aid. And I'm wondering as well if the memory boxes and all that work that went into making him 360 for Lottie. as she grows up, did that influence as well for your younger daughter,

how you would maybe, I don't know, want to put memories in for her? Yeah. And how have you made him part of her life too? Yeah, I guess, yeah, she's, because we've always spoken of him. And I suppose when she was old enough to understand, we, you know, we explain and she gets it now. But I guess she still, she's nine. She's 11, sorry. So she's kind of can see Lottie and effects.

and it has on her and how she might speak about him. But I guess, yeah, because they've had Chris in their lives together. It might be quite, I think she probably needs some talking therapy to sort of, to understand that even herself because it is quite hard for a, you know, 11-year-old to take on and understand. So, yeah. And what I think is, really, I mean, it's probably completely intentional, but I didn't really think about it, so I know I was going to see you today. But you started the disco kids when, you know, it was about making.

little t-shirts for little people but obviously it's also you it's you and aid being those disco kids from in wobble on yeah have you read that somewhere because that is i don't say that but disco yeah i am a child of the disco basically excuse me so disco kids had that sort of double connotation of yeah it was disco kids because it was kids tees but it was also really about me yeah and that's why we didn't change the name i sort of oh should we not be disco kids anymore but i think we've been we've been going along enough that it was yeah He's just going to start his disco. No, I didn't read that, but I was thinking about it.

And thank you for bringing us into that world, because I really feel like I got a real sense of AIDS, but I'm also really wowed by you. Because honestly, it's enough to build a brand and have it go for 10 years and have your own business in that way, but to have also been dealing with so many things and navigating it with your little girls is awesome. So I bet they're super proud of you.

Oh, bless you. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that when I opened the door to you today, we were wearing the same cardigan, not just like a version of the same cardigan or from the same shop, but absolutely, I mean, if we pick each other's up, we'll be still wearing the same cardigan. So that's a nice thing too. Brilliant. Thank you so much for talking to me. No, thank you.

I really appreciate it. Thank you. Stick around to out and go on the decks. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, a huge thank you to Helen. And what special business she's built as a female founder, but also all those women that work with her. And no wonder the business feels like her third child.

I completely can understand that. Yeah, super, super grateful. It was lovely to be speaking to her. And how impressive, you know, running out and brown for a decade. All while she's had so many things she's had to deal with. I'm absolutely, yeah, in awe. I'm in awe of you, Helen. Congratulations for all that you have built

and how you've really made something so special of times that have been so challenging. But, yeah, what a tribute to aid. Meanwhile, have they got quieter? No, they have got quieter. Thank you for bearing with me. I'm really sorry about the nose. I just had to seize it, really.

I'm going to be on my own with the kids all weekend. So I suspect this is my reality. unless I try and wait up until the house is quiet tonight, but I actually think they're going to out. They're going to be able to stay up past my bedtime because I've had about four hours sleep, if that. So when Richard gets up, I'm actually going to sleep off and grab a coffee. I think it's time.

And the weather is pretty, a little cold, but today is beautiful. The magnolia's out. The blue sky looks good, the sun's shining, feeling peaceful. And actually, you know what? If the sun is shiny on this cold day, and so I still need to wrap up. I'm actually going to go and find the cardigan, but Helen and I really like. It's another good day for that garden.

That's a garden. That card again, and I'll be thinking of you guys and thinking of Helen. So thank you so much to Helen Jukes for talking to me this week. Thank you to Claire Jones for producing it and for being a good dance partner at the feeling gig last night. That was fun, wasn't it, Claire? Thank you to Richard Jones for editing a podcast, but also playing bass so brilliantly with the feeling last night. Thank you, darling. I loved it.

And thank you to Ella May for the gorgeous and beautiful and joyful art work. Oh, my word, I've just realised this is the last one in the series, isn't it? Oh, thank you so, so much. What a brilliant group of ten guests. Again. I mean, whoever books these guests is doing a wonderful job. that's me. But honestly, thank you to all the guests. I adore these conversations, as you know. I am starting what next week with, I have a couple, two or three, I think it is, recordings with

new guests for the next series, which will be coming your way at the end of April. But, yeah, thank you so much. Keep your suggestions coming. I have had more than ever, actually, in terms of people suggesting. And even if they don't end up making the next series, I promise you, Most people that get, well, actually everybody, everybody that gets suggested to me, I check them out. I start, you know, following their careers. So suddenly you just introduce me to some amazing people. And then when it's serendipitous, I will have them opposite me if they will be so willing. But also, you shape what the podcast is.

So every interaction you have with me matters. Even if you're just saying, please don't record your introductions and your altros when you're hosting the end of a sleepover. It's too noisy and we don't like that. feedback all feedback is welcome take care have an amazing little break until we speak again thank you for lending me your ears and i hope wherever you are you're feeling good about things and life is peaceful please wish the same for me lots love bye