Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 184: India de Beaufort

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

India de Beaufort @indiadebeaufort is a British actress who lives in Los Angeles. She is also an influencer who shares my passion for vintage and antique clothing. I love her natural flowing posts because the strands of her life will be woven in as she’s snipping a dress with a scissors while wearing it! India has an 8 year old son Crosby. She shared with me how she had terrible postpartum depression. She told me how medication and the unshakeable support of her husband helped her recover, and she said that she intentionally looks for the joy in life. India and I have very similar tastes in vintage clothes so we tentatively plan to go shopping together one day - but realise we’ll have to share any items we buy! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Sophia L'Ela Spexter and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, aged between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates. You're in my dressing room. I'm at Witchwood Festival. I'm on stage in just under an hour. I am putting my makeup on, which is always really fun. I like getting myself ready. I have realized I have a bit of a habit of doing my

makeup the same colour as whatever clothes I'm wearing that day, but I always think I'm acting as a free spirit. It just shows you I'm actually incredibly, what's the word? So yeah, I'm wearing a kind of pink pinky peachy orangey jumpsuit and I've just done my eyes in Peaches pinks pinks and oranges. God unpredictable but it's fine it's a beautiful day here which would is in Cheltenham it's it's absolutely gorgeous I mean it's so pretty and we got here just as Bonium we're doing this set and I was from here with my two littlest boys and we went straight on the chair swings in the dreamy sunshine it's not as hot as it has been earlier in the week uh we've had a lovely week half-term week we took again just a

little two because the big boy wanted to be home to do their revision before their exams next week but um i took jessie and mickey on a boat earlier on this week we um richard and i like our little river boat things we take a little boat on the like a river cruiser on the thames pool up and down the Thames. It's ever so sweet. It's really wholesome. You wake up in the middle of these beautiful bits of the Thames. There's a little duckies all around you and it's just very, very sweet and very peaceful. And you kind of get like a slightly different version of the UK, which I've always really liked. We do it, I don't know, kind of like every couple or two or three years. The kids love it. It's very sweet. And yeah, I've got a couple of festivals this weekend,

Saturday in Whichwood and then tomorrow in Cornwall for the greatest day. and then on Sunday Richard and I were actually DJing and I'm singing for the Arsenal Football Club post-parade party so that should be quite fun so we will be with all of the women's team all of the men's team celebrating the men's team being top of the league because they've got their big parade all around the streets in North London and Richard and my eldest boy Kit are big Arsenal fans. So kind of a big deal in our house and it's so nice that we're involved in celebrating with them.

And then next week's bonkers, but I'll fill you in on that when I speak to you next week. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else to tell you about. It's been a... Before it's half of this week, I kind of took the week off, just been with the kids and the family, and then, well, I say that, they're still with me now. So I haven't separated myself from them,

but I've just taken them to my work, which is actually really fun. And when festivals are in this kind of glorious weather, there's honestly nowhere else I'd rather be. It's so fun, and everybody's in a really good mood out there, and which was really pretty. I've played this festival before, so nice to be back. And this week's podcast guest.

So I have been following India Bufo on Instagram for quite a while. And look, of course, I like her content in terms of how she styles herself, her take on fashion. She's kind of someone who'll be, she'll start filming her videos, show you what she's wearing that day, but also maybe show you how she grabbed a pair of scissors and turned her dress into a top and skirt. She's pretty thrifty. She's pretty good with changing necklines, shapes, you know, tying a ribbon here, making sleeves here. She knows how to make dresses. She's clever like that.

But she's also really positive and engaging, but also incredibly open and honest. So as I've followed her, I've seen her talk about her postpartum depression, her little boy Crosby, her husband, life in L.A., which is where she now lives, even though she was born in the UK. She trained, she went, she was actually,

she lived a very interesting life, which we will hear us talk about, but she was an actor. After being a singer, so her main day job, I guess, is a mixture of acting and content creation. But I think the content creation is almost taken her a little bit by surprise.

So I think it's something she was doing alongside stuff, and then people obviously loved it like I do. And it's now, she's got a massive account, actually. But she's just really likable, really nice, the sort of person where you think, oh, I feel like I could be friend with that lady. So I reached out to her and she was very kind and immediately got back to me and whilst we haven't met in person we did our chat remotely

and I'm really hoping that next time she's over in the United Kingdom we can stay alone in real life because that'd be really nice because I do like doing the remote. It's still lovely but it's always really nice when I'm sat with people. But that being said, we had a really good chat over Zoom and it was actually really lovely actually. I felt like it was one of the first. of those nice conversations where there are billion things I could have spoken to about, but I really like

the way that the chat just sort of unfolded. Sorry, that's the sound of my phone chain, uh, falling on the table. Yeah. You will hear. You will hear what I'm talking about. So, uh, thanks so much. I'm going to continue getting ready while the sun is setting. I really hope I get on stage before the sunset. It's so pretty out there. I think I'm on in about half an hour, so I'm probably going to miss it. It's half eight now. Anyway, see you on the other side. Thank you so much to, um, India. And here she is. Signing all lovely. Well, I've been doing so much research on you, India,

and it's been a complete joy. And I think it's always nice to start with the here and now. So what are you up to at the moment? What your projects you've got on? God. Quite a few balls in the air. So I can't go forward without really going a little bit back. But I've been an actor most of my life.

I started on the Basil Brush Show. and amongst other little bit parts, boom, boom. So cool. I actually love Basil Brush, so I... I mean, Basil is, you know, he's a British icon. He's a, you know, as far as Fox puppet goes, fox puppets go. And yeah, that was, that's a whole other story in itself, and many a steep learning curve, being a teenager on a set and learning your boundaries and all that jazz.

but I have been an actor most of my life up until a couple years ago. I got let go from a job I was on, and the entertainment industry here in LA is not what it was. So both my husband and I are actors, and we've been fortunate enough to be able to buy our house and do normal life things with irregular jobs because we just got very good at the feast or famine of it all. And we made it by, whether it was residuals or bit parts

or a friend of a friend pulls you in for something, and so we always cruised. And then after the pandemic and the strike, the workers just not there, amongst for a billion other reasons. And so I pivoted. I was actually in Liverpool. I was my nan raised me with my mum. And my nan was passing away. And she was in a care home in Wilton, Walton Grange Care Home in Liverpool. And I got the call that she wasn't going to make it. So I jumped on a plane and flew home. Got in a cab, most expensive cab forever from Heathrow to Wilton Grange Care Home in Liverpool. but I didn't care. I was like, we've got to be there.

No, got to get there. Yeah, got to get there. And I sort of did the night watch in the last week of her life. And each night, when everybody left, I stayed with her and slept by a bedside. And it was the most magical time as I got to see all the things I wanted to say. But that was when I got the phone call. It's two in the morning. And I'm lying on the floor of this care home. And I get the call that I've been let go of my job. This is very long winder, but I can't get to where I am without it. No, I'm here for it. and my whole life I had always sort of slightly feared being fired or let go from something because I thought I'll be so ashamed or it'll be you know there's this taboo or whatever that is around that but then when you're losing you know somebody who's basically another parent it was sort of her last act of taking care of me because it everything that it was impossible for everything

to not be entirely in perspective um not to say that it wasn't still a challenge to overcome that. But had it had that have been the only thing going on in my life, I think it could have swallowed it whole. But how could it when I was, my grief was already elsewhere? And also she was, she's one of those nans who would fib to people and tell them I had a pool when I didn't, or would call me and say, I'm watching the Oscars and I didn't see you on the carpet, where are you? And had no grasp on the reality of what it is to be a working actor, but was my biggest fan. And to lose a job, to have your most. like humbling moments standing next to and holding the hand of your biggest fan. Plus, on the phone

call, she started to be uncomfortable and I had to jump in and get nurses and, you know, help for her. And anyway, so that was when I, after her funeral and a month of sort of being home and going through all of those motions, I came back to L.A. and very aware that work was thin on the ground. And I just thought, all right, well, we're okay for the minute financially. Let me focus on things that bring joy. and I'm a person who needs validation and to I can't sit still. So I started posting. I've been collecting vintage and antique clothing since I was very little. And I started posting more of that.

And then I had 60,000 followers at the time when I started posting that just from acting work. And it sort of snowballed, which leads me to where I am now, which is the majority of my income comes from being a content creator in the fact. fashion space. And I still audition and both my husband and I are lifers. So we had to pivot and find jobs that could be flexible to allow us to stay in the game of the thing we've devoted our lives to. And that's where we are. Yes. Well, firstly, you know, it's lovely to hear you talk about. What was your Nan's name, by the way? What's her name? Uh-oh. Um, Eleanor De Beaufort, Ella. Ella. Well, let's shout out to Ella, because...

Shout to Ella. Yeah, I think... Oh, it's making me weepy. I think it's something so poignant as a privilege to being there at the end of someone's life. And I think one thing that I really love about what you do,

I don't know why it's making me emotional. Sorry. This is not... This is not on the cards for 10 a.m. this morning. No. I think it's because, you know, when you engage with someone and there's a community that forms online.

I came there because I really liked the same things you like. I like colour. I like dopamine. I like joy. I like dressing up. I flip in love vintage. But then what brings the layers is that all the things you've spoken about and just in that brief time, there were so many strands, are also woven in.

And I think I'm very attracted towards people where they've adapted along the path and whatever life's thrown at them, but then they also weave in acknowledging all these strands. It all becomes part of what you bring within what you're doing. So nothing's left out. It's not like while you're talking about your clothes or snipping something with scissors, you also talking about what you're up to. You might talk about your mum or you might talk about your nan or your son or your husband or your acting work or other projects.

And I think that's what's really lovely. And also, I love the fact that there's this big foundation of these women that have raised you and how what you've been given and where you found yourself. So much of the shoots of that seem to have come from your childhood and adapting and being thrifty and finding the fun and reacting to what life. at you because if you're raised by, your mum was a dancer, is that right? Yes, yeah. So you're raised in a creative household already,

which I think automatically is quite a different tone for childhood anyway, because it means that there isn't really a big map. It's people who are like, well, I might be doing this, but if I'm not, I'll do that, and we'll find our constants within this ever-changing landscape. And now you and your husband, obviously, are doing that with your little boy in tow, which resonates here because I'm married to a musician. So we also have that big question mark.

over what the future holds, but also finding fun and being a bit creative in where you do end up. But you were also a child in a creative household. Definitely, yeah. And a lot of my child

was also with my mum on her own. So up until I was about seven, my mum and I were largely on our own. And I think that formed the absolute bedrock of our relationship as well. That time it was just the two of us. I mean, you had your brother as well. But I think when you've got

that slightly smaller, quite intense little beginning, that nucleus, it's quite a, it's quite defining, I think, in your relationship with your parents. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we are, the day I got married, my mum and my, my mom walked me down the aisle, and my mum and my brother and I stood together, realizing, I think, I was the first to get married out of the two of us, and that this was sort of a send-off after a lifetime of it being the nucleus three. And, yeah, we're very close as a result of that. Yeah, and that's a big deal, isn't it? Because then how you're raising your son is not the same as your own childhood in so many ways. No. And a lot, I think, because I'm trying to learn from the, as much as I love and adored every part of my childhood, I also was very aware of the instability of it.

And I think a lot of my anxiety as an adult or fear of loss comes from the instability of being a child who knew, you know, my mom got, she did her best and she's tremendous, but she's just one person and she couldn't always hide the fears, the financial fears or the, you know, between job fears. And so I very much felt and experienced that with her and understood probably a little bit too young, the stresses and strains and the responsibilities of life. So it's a tough balance because as a parent, when you're trying to parent your child, a child you understand they can't have something because they literally can't afford to have something versus a child being told no but they don't really understand why it's because a parent is

trying to teach them they know that you could possibly afford it there's a there's a difference because you're more inclined to argue back whereas a kid who knows you just don't have it well what you're going to do you know so sometimes i struggle with that flip-flop as a parent oh yes me too actually that's a really difficult one isn't that you're so right and having those conversations how you navigate it because obviously your instinct is you want to be able to bring them so much. Of course. But when your idea of the value of something doesn't match their idea of the accessibility of something, it's really hard, isn't it?

And there's only so many times that he's going to hear, well, we couldn't even afford strawberries when I was young and not just be like, for God's sake. You know, I'm like, you're lucky you get anything more than an apple and an orange. But yeah, you know, trying to teach a kid about waste or trying to teach your kid about but when the world it makes everything so accessible to them. And you so badly want them to have the values you had because I think it gives us our gumption. Yes.

But if you knock them over the head with it, they're going to revert and go in the other direction. So yeah, I really don't know. Plus, you had a single mom, I had a single mom, to then be a partner and parent with two voices when you've only ever grown up with one. That's also, I think, a challenge. Yeah.

And I guess watching your partner step into a role as a, wow, well, I'm so sorry, experience. I really appreciate you talking to you about it. I also think that's an incredibly lonely way to start motherhood. And I think it's extraordinary, isn't it? But, you know, you were sending those photos. And it's amazing how quite often when people are really struggling, the way it presents, it's almost like you're amazed how much you can get away with

feeling so hollow on the inside when you can still present something that kind of looks roughly the right way. way it should look like a typical happy new mom with her little bubba yeah it's quite shocking i mean the fact that you managed to because after that my options were so i was still cleaning on to the idea of having a second you know saving all the things and all the stuff um but my husband at a certain point once we started to get me help and we realized and he was the most tremendous partner but at a certain point he was the one who had to kind of say to me babe i don't think this is on the cards for us And, you know, I would have been incontinent if there was a really good chance I would have been incontinent had I had a second, which means I wouldn't have been the mother I would have wanted to be for my first. In a lot of ways, there would have been so many things I couldn't do with him. That and also I would have had to have come off my antidepressants, which once the light bulb went off and we managed to figure out what was going on, they saved my life and my marriage. And so my options were if I wanted to have another, it would have been detrimental.

to our family unit and it was unclear as to what I would have, well, how severe the toll would have been on my body. And it took nine months of post-problem physical therapy. He had like a four-finger diastasis. Anything that could go wrong did go wrong. So we even met with a surrogacy agency because I wasn't ready to give up the idea that there should be too. But again, I would have had to have come off my meds to do the shots and all the process. And they explained to us just how arduous it actually is. And so then it became clear that that just wasn't the path for us. But when I look at someone like you and you managed to have five kids successfully and our bodies just, you know, coped differently, but did you have struggles with any of your pregnancies more than others? Or,

you know, did you find that things got easier as it went along or harder or how was that for you? Well, firstly, I'm sure there are so many people that will be listening and so grateful to you for talking about these things. Because I've sat opposite people who've shared similar situations. I just think it's so brilliant to bring it into the light. And I have so many girlfriends that have gone through really challenging times and the prolapse or mental health issues during pregnancy post. And I think for a lot of people, they carry around quite a lot of trauma, actually, because it doesn't necessarily get dressed. Because you have this baby, there's so much focus on the baby

and the baby hitting their milestones, and sometimes the maternal health can really be sort of sideswept a little bit. I think we're getting better, but it's an ongoing process. For me, I actually had quite difficult first two pregnancies. I had something called preeclampsia. which means that I got really, really puffy and headaches and just, I just felt like I just wasn't coping well with pregnancy. I thought I just wasn't very good at being pregnant. And I ended up having my first two months early and my second two months early as well. And there wasn't very

well with them. But I don't know. I think something, it must have been very formative for me that when my mum met my stepdad, which was when I was seven, they had my brother, by the the time I was eight. So my first sibling. And out of having a fairly serious backdrop in my childhood with my parents' divorce and the fallout from that, and it just being me and only child, I saw this baby as an absolute beacon of a new beginning, a happy thing, something unequivocably positive. And I think I just hardwired that that would mean that in any situation in my life, While I was able, the solution might be, let's have another baby. So it would be like, my grandpa died.

Should you have another baby? My grand. Richard was like, you have to, like, we have to stop, and we have to just watch them grow up now. And I look back and I'm like, that is wild. I don't actually know. When I look back at how tiny, like my second born was £2,6, he was very unwell.

He was in hospital for a long time. I'm like, what, why did I suddenly go like, okay, number three, let's go? That's just the part you were on. But I also think that says, like, for you as a seven-year-old to see, having lived a singular life being your mom's soul focus, to then share your mom with her new partner and then a new baby and your natural instinct to be one of positivity, I think speak so much to your soul, you know, the whole nature versus nurture because your soul was so open and selfless and positive.

And I think more often the opposite is true that children really struggle with their incoming, you know, a new, especially at seven when you're still, you don't know that you're not supposed to want everything for yourself. You haven't really figured out greed and all those things. But energetically, how lovely that that was your first instinct. Yeah, and I suppose as well, even now as a grown-up, I love the, I love the straightforward kind of interaction you get with kids.

So if I'm at a party and there's a table with small people on it, I'll probably go and hang out with them. I find adults quite hard to navigate sometimes. But children, I'm like, okay, I think I can kind of be a bit silly with you. I quite like that. In another life, I could have been like children's entertainer type of thing. I think I quite like, yeah, the way they just don't hold back. It can be quite tough critics, can be funny, can be quite eccentric. I like a bit of that.

It's great to see human beings before society gets hold of them and tells them who they should be. Yes. And it's so refreshing with kids that there's just, they're just in continual blossom up until the awareness kicks in. And it's such a nice reminder of how it should be. I was listening to a conversation you had where you spoke about something I'd never heard of before where you were splitting how you and your husband were navigating your hours to give you both time. Would you mind, I don't know, is that something you're still doing? Would you mind just sharing again so I can hear it from you?

Because I thought it was absolutely genius. I've never even considered it. But what a smart way to do it. Well, I don't know how you would with five. I've got to be honest. I don't know. I had too many. You're right.

Yeah, because I only have one. I think it was easier for us to do. but so I recently, my psychiatrist says I have, well, you know, I'm supposed to supposed to say diagnosed. I was diagnosed with PPD and OCD and I still take antidepressants, but also my husband has been fairly certain for a long time and so is my psychiatrist that I have ADHD. And I've got the, I think they're called scales or something you're supposed to take to confirm it, but everyone's pretty sure. And in true ADHD fashion, they've sat there for six months and I haven't touched them. The reason I explain all of that is because during the pandemic,

I cannot sit still. Like I just cannot sit still. And I really have to, I'm very self-motivated and need validation. And so we, the pandemic begins. We're on set together. I was guest starring with my husband.

He was on a show and I was playing his love interest. And they, you know, they walk in and say, we're going to shut down for two weeks. We'll see you in a couple weeks. And we leave that sound stage and we never went back. I think,

except for my husband to go pick up his belongings. And so now you're at home, twiddling your fingers. fingers. Los Angeles definitely talking to my mom at the time, things were much stricter here than there, or the fear was greater than in England. And my son has asthma and asthma to the point that he once was in hospital with a cold that turned into pneumonia. So we were incredibly cautious and for an entire year entirely locked down because we just didn't know how badly that could go and we were too afraid to risk.

Yeah, it was very frightening. Yeah. So pre-getting vaccines, we just really, so now you've got two parents at home with a two-year-old who, as you know, two-year-olds need a lot of entertainment, plus he's an only child. So there's no kid, there's no, literally no child for him to play with for a year straight. And we quickly realized that my husband is also someone who's very hardworking and likes to have a good day's work under his belt and just in a slightly healthier way than me, slightly less obsessive. a suh way. So the format we decided upon was it's a seven to seven seven to one one to seven format. So let's say Monday morning is my morning and now he wakes up earlier, but let's just say I wake up with my son at seven and from 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. he is solely my responsibility and anything that he needs or anything that happens with him is on me. But it also means that I as the parent am the boss and I make the calls for that time. And if he runs to his dad and says, well, what mom said, then dad goes, it's your mom's time. You have to figure that out with your mom. And then from one o'clock

onwards, it switches over and then it becomes dad time. And that's everything from, you know, usually lunch, like, so if you're seven to one, you've done breakfast and lunch and everything in between. And if you're one to seven, you're doing dinner and the dishes and the bath routine and bed and books and putting them down. and then it carries on with that person the next morning from seven to one. So essentially, each parent has 24 hours where they are in charge, but it always crosses over a night so that Crosby gets both of us in one day. But we still do meals together. There's things where we come together,

but it just means that if it's on Todd's time, I get to enjoy my son, because I get to sit down and have dinner with him and maybe play cards with him before or after because I don't have to do the dishes and I don't have to do any of the work stuff and I get to have time with my son that's rested and peaceful and on the weekends

we maintain that structure in terms of cooking and bedtime and bath but Saturdays and Sundays is family time so the daytime we are entirely together it just means that the other person always knows they've got a lion coming you know I wake up early one day I sleep in the next I wake up early one day

I sleep in the next which for me with the post-problem depression was just necessary. So then he started to get older and school came and it still works. If the school calls at 10 a.m. and says, your kids got to get picked up, then we know who the parent is that's got to go do it. And there's definitely times where we thought, should we be showing him one parent cooks and then the other parent does the dishes? But it's kind of the same difference.

He sees us both cook and do dishes. He sees us both, you know, it's so evenly divided that there is not an ounce of my son's brain that would ever think there was a man's role or a woman's role. It's just time with family. And I love that while I'm cooking, he's out there playing basketball with his dad and they're having hangout time because, you know, I'm doing the work stuff and he's getting to enjoy his kid. And yeah. And so as a result, both my husband and I were able to get seven solid hours a day during the pandemic of time. to ourselves to do take a walk, get work done, have a bath, whatever it was that kept you sane. Yeah.

And that was how we managed to make it through. I think it's flipping awesome. I'm just listening to you like, this is just so genius. I mean, you must just look at the rest of us like, why are these muggles not sorting this? I mean, it's so balanced, it's fair. It means both of you also understand the bits of parenting that is a bit more domestic and just not that sexy and really a bit boring, but just has to happen. And also the bit where you get to have fun.

I love the idea of you saying, oh, I'd like to just get to have a card game with him because that's not, you know, I know that that side of things will get sorted. And then the next time it's you, you know, they're outside playing in the garden. It's just so wholesome and good. I suppose the only thing is making sure that you and your partner also have time for yourself too. And that is where we have not. You can figure that out. we were doing pretty good with that at first in terms of trying a structure in a date night,

not during the pandemic, although we did have, we did make ourselves date on the lawn in front of, you know, we tried. We're just going out at the end of the time. And some days we have to switch off. Like we'll say, oh, by the way, I can't do this? I have to switch my slot on this day. Can you switch? Or you might have to call a babysitter to cover your shift kind of thing or something like that.

There's, you know, negotiations that happen. Of course. Um, our marriage, luckily, we are very solid. He's my best friend. He's 11 years older than me, which I think was the best call I ever made at the time. I was super young when I met him. I was 21. I met him and 21 when we started dating. And I'd come out of a very unhealthy relationship. So I was ready for a good guy. And I always joke that he has half a vagina. Um, because he is so, so many of his friends are women. And he's so in touch with his mom's like this. His dad's a sweet, lovely, wonderful, an incredible father and a gentleman.

And, I mean, him and his dad and his brother, if you're at dinner with them and you stand to go to the bathroom, the three of them stand, which my son has now learned, and he stands too, which is so lovely. But his mom is an anti-nuke activist who has, you know, she is lobbied in Congress and gotten grants to sort of observe different power plants on the East Coast and done these crazy trips to Russia.

And Todd was getting arrested with her when he was 13, chained to a fence outside of power plant. So he was raised by this really strong woman and then this really kind father, and they both respect each other's roles. And so I think I owe them many thanks for the man that I get to love. And as a result, I have the most incredible trust, unshakable trust, which means we both have so much freedom and flexibility. And I also have a partner who both of us say, go chase your dreams. got that job, go, we'll work it out. If you need to travel to wherever, we'll work it. We'll find a way. And so there's so much freedom in my marriage because it's so safe that I think at times when you get

into the mom and the dad world, and we both love our son so much and understand that no matter what, we created this human being who now is the number one priority and we're both okay with that. I hope you love him more than me. I hope you, because we both, this is the most important thing in our lives. And then we understand, you know, that he is also the love of my life and will be my part of we playing Scrabble on a porch when I'm in my 80s somewhere. But we are definitely behind in trying to prioritize us and the romance of us. But I also think that because of what happened with our industry, we both understood the assignment. We both went, okay, right now we have to switch into hustle mode and keep our home. You know, there's been moments where we kind of

went, are we going to be able to keep this house? Are we going to be able to, you know? And so right now we kind of see each other. And every now and then he just comes into my office. He got me this candle that says, you're doing great, babe. And he just comes into my office and he goes, you're doing great babe. And then keeps going. And we're just kind of mutually acknowledging we're in it right now.

It's not forever. And, you know, he squeezes my tush when I'm in the kitchen making something just to remind me, you know, that we're both there. But it's, yeah, we could do a lot better. carving out time to show my son that example too. It's true but it sounds like when you said you know he's this wonderful supportive partner but also you feel so safe I mean what better example for your little boy is that you know two people that are really thinking of each other and actually you mentioned your mother-in-law who sounds pretty formidable and as I understand it she actually

shared with you an article when you were still very much in the very tricky months that you were navigating when you had your small baby. And it was an article about a part of your brain that's dormant and that kind of kicks in after, I suppose, I'm so impressed by your research. You are so, I mean, honestly, I am blown away by your level of research. No, it's really fun. You are tremendous. I don't want to freak you out though. No, I think it's, you're just the real deal. I just think it's really wonderful. I'm so impressed by you. I really love, I just, Yeah, I think you're wonderful. Oh, well, right back at you.

And there was something you said after you'd seen this article about this new part of your brain that kind of kicks in with matressing. Well, it was something you said and actually I found it really moving because, and I suppose, you know, some of it's very personal because of what happened with how you were feeling. And that image of you stood in the corner looking at your baby feeling like that. I think that's really haunting, and I'm sure something you, that's a lot to navigate. But you said something about that you had to come to terms without who you were, you would never be reclaimed with that person sort of gone, but there's this new, souped up version of yourself that came into being. And I found that really glorious as a concept.

And I think it sums up something that I took me youngst to, to realize how significant the process was of the sort of pre-motherhood me and then the one where I was now, you know, a mum. And that idea that you are something new that emerges. And I think it's also sometimes as well, getting older as well, and coming to terms of yourself. And I'm sorry if I've slightly butched what you said, but it was a really beautiful how you put it. I'll be honest. I don't, I don't totally remember what I said, so I wouldn't even know if you know, butchered it or not. I said. a lot of stuff, verbal diarrhea.

But that article, I have it. I should have brought it. I have it. I hold onto it. I should post the cover of the magazine because it really did. And I should tell her what an impact that had on me, to be honest. I should tell her in general how much of an impact she has on me. I don't tell her enough.

But the women in our lives really do shape so much of who we are and how we keep putting one foot in front of the other. But this article, the concept that there's this piece of your brain that is, black and then all of a sudden because you gave birth your body started turning the lights on and then this electricity starts firing and all of a sudden there is access to an entire piece of you you never had and or would never have had access to had you not gone through this process and then it's it's turned on and you get to keep it for life and then i think god what would have happened if I'd have never met this version of myself. And how crazy that you have no control over

that. And it's just, you know, and it's been a while since I've read it. But my recollection is it's, it's all of the things that you really are required to be a mum, the ability to multitask, making you much more protective, making you much more alert or responsive or reactive or being able to, you never sleep the same way again because your brain is always more awake than your partners. The slightest sound that could be your child. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I, it's crazy. There might be a loud bang doesn't wake me up, but the tiniest murmur from my son, and I am, like, it's nuts. You know, and you read those articles about moms who, like, lifted cars off their kids, I believe it.

I believe it. And especially because I remember so vividly that first year of life feeling like I should love my son and not knowing how. I remember calling my mom and saying, Mom, I love you more and I'm not supposed to, but I do. and I feel like I don't love him the way I love you and I I you know all these things and now there is literally nothing on the planet I love more than my child I just had to get past the chemicals and I think this article I hold onto in my mind and keep with me at all times because we had a friend who said right after we gave birth the problem is right now when he was three months old maybe you're too close and you remember who you remember who you

you were before they came. You remember what life was before they came and you're just too close. But pretty soon you're going to forget. And you'll blurrally remember, but you'll, pretty soon it's only this new version of you that you will come to know. And as time has gone on and I realize that I think for a lot of women, the concept of becoming a mother can feel like a prison or a removal of self or I'll never be what I was or my body will never be the same or I'll never be perceived the same but actually you're gaining so much and I've had so many conversations lately about intentional positivity and intentional joy and you have to really train your brain to make those choices because we are so destined to evolve and the only way we evolve is by pointing out

what we don't have so that we can create and invent to fill holes. So we are scientifically creative to never be content. And once you really put all of that in front of you and think, okay, well, what if I buck that trend and say that might be what I'm scientifically for, but you know, screw it, I'm going to choose to wake up every day and find, the positivity. That doesn't mean not grow, but grow from joy as opposed to scarcity, grow from excitement and bravery as opposed to fear. And for me, applying that to being a mother, now seven years later, and I'm still on my postpartum meds, and I still have dips, and I still, and my understanding is this will be me for the rest of my life. But to be told, I had crushing

anxiety years before I ever had a child. I just, it was the sadness. that was the thing that made me go, I need the help. And I would not change a single thing. Oh, well, cheers to that. I mean, I think that intentional framing and how we speak to ourselves about the world around us and our day-to-day, that was so beautifully put. And it's so true. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. And it is a bit of a method you have to do.

And I suppose there's also lots of semantics of how people might term that level of self-awareness. And I think to some extent, for me, some of that was something I probably wasn't capable of in my 20s, maybe my 30s. You know, you're still building, you're worried, you're insecure, you're frustrated, hungry, all the stuff. You're kind of looking outside yourself all the time, chip, chip, chipping away. But as you get older, I think, it's even more important to frame things in the way that makes you choose that contentment. Because I do think that as you get older, there's almost like forks in the road. And you can sort of see the people that kind of get a bit more calcified in their thinking, whether a bit more bitter about things or suspicious, I suppose, of other people's happiness.

and the people where they're like, I'm actually curious and I'm looking outside of myself and I'm taking wonder in the smallest of things. And I do think you have to encourage yourself onto that path as much as you can. Especially in a funny way if you're British. We have a Britishism that we must never, if someone says how you're doing,

you couldn't possibly say, you know what, I'm so great. I'm really content and happy and fantastic. You've got to be like, it's fine, I'm fine. You know, you have to belittle your accomplishments or because we are as a society, Brits, we're always ready to pull somebody down.

And you've got to sort of maintain, especially I think with a Scouse family, you must never get ahead. I actually intentionally, when I see my family, probably work even harder to try to not ruffle any feathers by. And like downplay things. Yeah, being. even perceived to be even remotely fancy in any way or above myself or, you know, and then I think

at a certain point I just thought, well, I think anytime someone says, how are you, if I am really content, and I think right in this moment I'm more content than I've ever been in my life, I almost think it's more rude not to be grateful for how content I am and say, you know what, I'm okay. So because that way, if you're in a conversation with somebody who isn't okay, then this is your time. What do you need to talk about for an hour and how can I help you? Like, I'm good.

So what's going on with you and how can I be a friend and how can I, you know, take my place of contentment and open that up to be space for us to help you? And it's just all this rewire like conscious rewiring. And it's exhausting to adapt to, but then once you start to make that the new habit, now I love it. Someone says, how are you? And I go, God, I'm bloody great, marvelous. I'm really happy. And I also realized that whilst in my head, I think I'm always supposed to downplay, I'll be like, it's fine.

Or someone says, you look gorgeous. And I'm going to go right back at you. You look gorgeous. You know, I actually realize when I think about the people I have the most fun with, the people that give the most in my day as opposed to taking it, all the people I love to have. hang out with the most are the ones who are chipper and happy and you know joyful and and and I thought I've got this wrong I don't have to people please and be um tried to humble or whatever because that's not actually enjoyable in life that that takes energy as opposed to giving what have we all just you know

focused on being there for each other when we need to and sharing when things are truthfully in trouble but also celebrating this life that we only get one shot at with altogether too and bringing that to the table and having that be okay. Definitely, and it's such a tonic, isn't it? You know, when you see your friends and they're, you know, you can still put the world to rights and go through the list of all the things that we're finding challenging. But if you're ultimately, yeah, acknowledging the things that make you happy,

it just makes everybody feel buoyed up as well, doesn't that? It really bounces off. It's like a lovely mirror to put. out into the world, I think. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit more about vintage clothing? Oh my God, yes. Let's.

Because actually, I heard you name check, Cannonball and Tilly, which is my go-to vintage haunt when I'm in L.A. I love Cannibal and Tilly. Because when I travel for work, it's vintage shops that I always end up at. I'm absolutely obsessed. What is it you love about vintage and what are you most likely to be rummaging through on the racks? And do you always come out with armfuls or are you quite selective? Oh, yeah. That's my, that's my problem.

Because I start putting to look, I put looks together while I'm there. And then the next thing I know, well, I need this, I'd like to go with that. Otherwise, if I don't have this. And I've got clothes at home. But, you know. Yeah. It's addictive there, isn't it? It's so addictive.

You'll never see it again. No. And the number of times I've walked away from something and then it's you can't, you'll never find your way back. It's like, you've got to get it now in this moment. But I will say I'm not a fancy vintage purchaser. I won't do big expensive vintage. I won't do it. If we go shopping together, it would be a nightmare or be like, armfuls.

Well, that's the thing. But also, very dangerous to go shopping with someone that you might have similar tastes with. Very dangerous, very challenging. Can be problematic. Yeah, my version of vintage was from the dance, my mum's dancer gal friends. And so it was all very much, is it fabulous? Can we cut it, shop it, make it something. And it was not supposed to be this archival, my version of it, you know, archival vintage

or the kind of vintage you wrap in a plastic bag and never touch. And listen, I've definitely got, there's an Edwardian tambour lace skirt that I own. I probably never should have worn it out. It probably should have, it's museum grade and it does now have a tear in the lace. Do I feel horrific about that tear in the lace all day ever? every day. But the day, the couple occasions that I've won her out, one in specific at New York Fashion Week, she was seen and celebrated and loved and people stopped in the street to say, you know, and I kind of go, oh, they deserve that. Yeah, I'm for that too. But to me, you know,

I like my vintage to be affordable. And when it's not, I will go for the joy of the artistry and the concept and the ideas and grasping from looking at pieces and seeing how they were made and and letting those inspire future choices. But I'm just, there's a few fairs in London, one in Chelsea in particular that I just think is priced out of anybody's reasonable budget. And my fear is for the next generation coming up, what have we priced them out of vintage before they get the chance to love it? And we need the next generation to love it so that they'll sustain it

and protect it for the generation after. And, you know, if we're talking in Ozzie Clark or some, insanely rare piece, then of course I understand. I get it. But the unbranded vintage that people just all of a sudden started marking up with insane prices. And I've sold vintage. I have stood in piles of vintage downtown LA in raghouses with a dust mask on and gone through tens of hundreds of pieces and come out filthy and covered. And I have driven to the Rose Bofley Market at 3am and unloaded my truck. So it's not as if I haven't put in the time and I don't know what it is to be a vintage seller. I respect and admire the work that it takes to be a vintage seller. But we've just got to be fair and satisfy every

market to make sure that we keep the dream alive, otherwise it won't exist at all. Yeah. So I do like my bargains and my eccentric nonsense. The more eccentric, the better. But anytime I travel for work, again, much like you, it's what vintage stores are in the area. And I also think that is a great way to get to know a place because you inevitably will have fascinating conversations, meet interesting people, you know, and it becomes your map of the world. There's a great place called Buru's Angels, Buku's Angels, in Vancouver. That is for not like Canada vintage. I love it. Canadian vintage is awesome

Toronto I go crazy in there too because it's just there's all these streets and you're just walking around and oh it's just yeah if you like 60s 70s which I do so yeah you've always had sort of a 60s style I've seen the mod

you know you with your hair and other inspirations yeah I do like that and I like my sort of like you I like the crazy I like looking through vintage I'm like who does why did they make this outfit what? Yes Why is that bit on there?

And then that's, oh, that's actually clots and, oh, there's lace on that. I just think it's, I love the bonkers, eccentric, bizarre pieces. And then I'll just, so I just want to own it for a while. I'll just be a custodian of it for a little while. Yeah, we're guardians. Go back on, yeah, they can go and have his life with someone else. And I'll lend it to people. I just love all the stories, all the stories in the climate.

And the homemade stuff. Because we really did, we've gotten so out of reach with what it actually costs to make a garment. And then when you start to really go back in time and see that for the majority of history, women only wore clothes they made themselves. And then you start to really get the scope of what it takes to create a singular garment. It's really only in the last sort of 60, 70 years that it's become normal for us to go out and purchase. And when you really start to piece that together, and now the speed at which we can purchase clothing, when you do share an item that was handmade by someone inside America or not made in a factory in the far reaches where people aren't being properly cared for.

And we've really lost the value of a singular item of clothing. And I think vintage is one of those beautiful places that brings it right back. Yes. Yeah. And you enjoy it and you can use it again and again. And I think you, because you've found it, you know, it brings back all the memories of that day when you discovered it. And as you say, for me, it's a way to unlock a place a little bit. I'll walk around.

It's often in like the cool areas where you find the vintage shots. People are really chatty. And it's quite kooky some of it. You know, you walk in and you think, wow, I think maybe nobody's looked on that shelf for a little while. So what's up there or let me in that back room, you know. And I found myself in sometimes been taken, come into the back room through this curtain. I'll leave you alone for an hour. And you're like, oh, this is awesome.

Oh, my God, really good stuff. Really good stuff. Dare I ask your favourite London spots? I find London quite tricky, if I'm honest. I think a lot of my favourite places have gone. There's still some good places on Portobello, Goldbourne Road. I just did the Brick Lane vintage market. Yes, there's some great stuff around there too.

Yeah. And then actually there's Beyond Retro, which is quite studenty, really. There's these vintage shops all up and down the UK. Actually, Liverpool's got some great places. Liverpool does have some great places, actually. You're right. So yeah, I'll go in there because I always walk out with something. Yeah.

When you do your speaking bookings, because I understand you now take on where you'll go and do, you know, talking assignment. What do you talk about? What are your topics? Because there's so many things you can pick. So I've actually only done one so far. Okay. I did one. My friend reached out, Gabriella Rosenfeld, Gabs, if you're listening.

She works with the preferred group, which is sort of connected to hotels. and they were having this weekend to sort of celebrate some of the women that they work with on a regular basis. And so she asked me if I'd come along. And I love her so much that so me and Gabby and Amy, Gabby's boss, the three of us just kind of hung out and had a girls weekend and threw together this event. And it was a two-hour immersive styling event. And the whole goal was to, I sat with all of these women in the room about 22. ish women. And we talked about everything from print mixing to all of the pieces in my closet that I might use to tweak an outfit or ways that you can tweak something without cutting it or why you might

go to an alteration specialist and what you can do and how you can work to sort of improve your closet proportionally specific to your proportions and things that are very adaptable. Also, this was specific to connecting corporate with color. and finding ways for you to stand out and find your individuality and your sense of self and your clothing. But for the most part, having fun. I think to me, the most important thing when it comes to fashion is having fun. And if you love it, you should wear it. And it's so easy for us to limit ourselves.

And I felt the limits for the longest time that I felt like I might secretly have been one thing, but I was not perceived that way by my friends. And therefore, there was a hurdle for me to be. bring that into my actual existence. And then one day I just did it. And I started taking pictures of it and posting it online for an Instagram account I had a long time ago called Give No Flamingos, which no longer really, it just sits there. But there was something about posting those pictures that was my declaration of self. And then once people had seen it, then all of a sudden, I was out there now. And I just started showing up to wherever I went as who I really was. And it was

the most liberating thing in the world. So I do remember that mental hurdle of wanting to be something but fearing what others may think if I was. And so that was a huge part of the conversation that we talked about. And honestly, we could have kept going for forever. Girls came up, we dressed, we played. I had racks of stuff. I had accessories. I talked about some of my accessory tricks. One of my favorite is if you're traveling taking silver accessories. So if you take silver shoes in a silver bag and silver jewelry, doesn't matter what outfit you bring with you, you can switch those out because they're technically a neutral, but with a little bit more fun. You know, little things, sneaky tricks like that. And then the goal was moving forward if I was to do that again, we started to, and we really

thought about the structure of it, and, you know, there's a whole deck for the format of what that would be. It's called Just for Fun, the art of dopamine dressing. And we structured it to a two-hour session, a one hour less interactive session, then a half hour session that was a little bit more, you know, giving you the skinny nice and efficiently. But I think these days more about how I would love to be able to talk about as a woman, the art of the pivot. Yes, that's honestly, that's literally what I was thinking when you were talking, because I was imagining, and you actually said it yourself, adaptation, because what I'm hearing from, From what you've experienced, there's so many points of adapting,

so whether it's adapting your clothing, but also career, moving to a different country, having a baby, all these things, adaptation becomes the thing, doesn't it? The theme that's really pleasing threads. And I wondered, what have you been given from this pivot, this community and sharing this other side of yourself? what has it given you that you weren't expecting? I was actually just thinking about this morning.

It's given me so much. And I think, so the term influencer is often I find, especially if you have been an actor. I have seen a lot of people, you know, put then, turn their nose up. And there's been times in my life where I have shared that mindset of, oh, God, because, you know, oh, well, I'm an actor, so it's a much more valiant thing.

that I, you know, and then once I started to really lean into this space, God, I realize that quote unquote, influencers or content creators are working more than I've ever seen. They are hustling so hard. And there's so much thought process and it's so smart and it's so business strategy and it's so, and now that I look around and I'm just in awe of anyone who's ever hustled. And so every time that I now am in a conversation with someone where they're sort of belittling what that is, I have such a different perspective to how people have become these self-made machines. And if you are able to do that without selling your soul, even more admiration and respect. And for me, it was this juggling act of, I have a family and I need to be

able to keep my house and take care of my son and for us to not be in trouble. So I have to be, it is a business. There is a business part of it. And I think throughout this whole sort of social media journey, I see a lot of people disguise what they're doing with their content. You know, they're creating a mirage of their content. And that's often rewarded. But my journey through it, my connection with the people that I have been able to engage with is that for me at least, any time I didn't have a mirage, the resource. was overwhelmingly positive. And so the part of me that has grown up, I was horrifically bullied in, well, here we say high school, secondary school, serifically bullied in secondary school.

And so there is definitely a piece of me that's always wanted to keep up appearances to keep the bullies at bay or so on and so forth. It has been so cleansing and healing because I think possibly because of the ADHD, I lose creative interest in something I'm not actually invested in, which has meant that any time I've been told, you've got to have this super glossy page with really perfect pictures if you want to be invited to this event or get sent this Hamburg or get to go to that fashion show. And there's been times where I've tried to keep up with that, but I just lose speed because I can't. I just can't. I lose interest. And I just don't have the gumption to do it the way that I want to do it. And over the last two years, I've,

had this beautiful evolution of becoming so much more comfortable with being exactly who I am and also knowing that I can say, oh, coming from a kid who was on-income support or coming from a scouse family or coming from forever, there's this enormous piece of me that goes, well, this lot are up their asses and whatever and it's a bunch of snobbery and so on so forth. But then at the same time go, but I really want to wear that fancy dress and go to that fancy event and drink that fancy beverage. And all of those things can be true at the same time. And it's messy and imperfect. And it's not black and white. And I can be online and people, a lot of people I engage with think I'm so lovely and sweet and kind. But then, you know what? There's

going to be a day where you're going to catch me not being lovely and sweet and kind. And that's okay too. It's pretty and ugly, perfect and imperfect. Someone who's there being, well, you've got to be gritty and real, but then the same time's going, but send me that Jimmy Chew. And all of those things are okay. It's okay. And it's better if you just share that you have all of those inner thoughts, because everyone else has them too. And once you start to come to realize what the feeling of being validated for being messy has really healed a lot of my inner kid. Yeah. And I don't know these people. who have validated me on a personal level. I don't know them and I don't always get to respond to

their messages and I don't always get to have a personal interaction with them, but I have been so healed by them. And then they might share that they have been healed by something I have shared. So there's this sort of conversation happening that miraculously my space is 98.6% women. And I somehow have lucked into it's very kind. Yeah. Once in a blue moon, there might be someone who comes in who has something not so kind to say, but they don't stick around. And it's usually a video that's had a bit more traction, so it's fallen outside of my usual parameters. But I also, from a scarcity and fear of loss mindset, you know, my dad split when I was a baby,

so there's always that fear of loss. My brain always goes, but one day you might get cancelled because you'll say, I'll do the wrong thing, you'll make the mistake, you'll screw up. And then this idea that you're safe to do so might not be so accurate. it you're not always going to say the right thing or win them over or you know whatever um so i you know there's a protection in the back of my head that goes yeah and that's also just that's also human nature it's gonna it's really hard to completely give yourself over to something and not worry because you care about it and it's precious it becomes something quite precious and i think because it's a spontaneous

medium the idea that you could do something that would actually warp it or take it away from you is always, you know, if you care about something, you never want that to happen. Yeah. And it can happen like that. So easy. Which under council culture fascinates me as well. But I think actually, if we leave that bit of the conversation to one side, because I don't think that's what's imminent,

what I hear more, isn't it crazy that we can have all these ways we think we're supposed to act if we've maybe been the recipient of, yeah, difficult times at secondary school and all these voices in our head and all these walls we put up. But there is something lovely about the community that can form online.

And the influencer term to me seems a bit redundant now. I think we need almost like different phrases. I so agree. Because it's a creative space that is almost like finding your TV show or your broadcast channel. Yeah.

It's not really that. And some of it is quite, for one of the better words, quite earnest. And I think especially as British women when maybe not that good about that earnest theme going, I'm just going to tell you I'm like this and people going, oh, we think you're great because you did that.

We're like, where's the bit where you tell me I'm silly or get out the room or that's not appropriate here? So being able to kind of share all that stuff is all good. And you're really conscious of your time. I mean, there's so many things I could have bopped around with. You've led such an extraordinary life. We've barely even spoken about your acting, which I know is at the core of what you do. But I am conscious that we've had a really lovely conversation. And I thought I'd leave you with a really.

funny fact, which I'm hoping my research has been accurate on, which is I think you might be the first guest I've had on the podcast who's actually been a body double for another guest, because I think you're a body double for Katie Melua. I was! Which is really pleasing for me, but also quite funny. I was. Yeah, I was. 16 year of me.

I was. Yeah, there you go. That's a first. That's a first. She was lovely as well. I hope we get to meet in one real life one. time and um yeah we'll grab a couple of vintage shopping please maybe in my god oh yeah there you go now you're talking my language we'll be fighting for bits though listen i'm i'm sure we'll find a way

we'll share kindly i'll send it to you you'll send it back to me yeah it'll be the sisterhood of the travelling vintage perfect um this is delightful sending you lots of love in sunny LA right back i've just finished the same day you're just finishing friday it's it's been a good day You've got a good day ahead. Good. I'd love to hear it. Well, you've certainly set mine off in the right direction. Take care of yourself, Sophie.

Yeah, take care. Well, thank you so much, India. What a lovely, warm, open woman. And honestly, I do massively appreciate how open India was about her postpartum depression. It really stayed with me, her description. And I think it's incredibly generous and strong of people when they've been. through something so traumatic and frightening and then they can share it with other people

to de-stigmatize, to help other people feel less alone and to, I suppose, help yourself with the healing process too. And I hope if anyone out there listening has been affected by that, that you have people you can speak to and a good support network around you. You are doing a good job.

And listen, the whole... hormonal shifts that go on during pregnancy and postpartum are immense. And if you have found yourself beholden to it, it is not your fault. And there is help available. So thank you so much to India for bringing that to light. And it was a delighted tour to her. And yeah, honestly, if you don't follow already, I really recommend her account. Not least because she really loves clothes, but also she's really smart and interesting about how she uses fashion to share her personality. She's pretty fearless with it. She loves bright colors, big prints, just sort of a very joyful person who's obviously decided she's not going to wait for some big moment to dress up

well. She's just going to do it when she's collecting Crosby from school or whatever it may be. She's got on that day. So I love that too. I find it really inspiring and heartening. Talking of happening, the sun is still golden in the sky here. I've been, yeah, posturing my eyes are done, my eyebrows are done, my cheeks are done. Now I just need to, what lip colour, and then my bader. I'm going to do a costume change tonight, so I need to make sure I can fit. Basically, because I'm at a festival where I've got a proper costume change, I have to put one outfit underneath the other outfit, so it's a bit silly.

But it does kind of work. Thank you so much to you for coming to find my podcast this week. I have been reading through all of your amazing compliments and reviews of the podcast. And honestly, it is, I'm going to be honest, there's something that happens when people compliment me on the podcast that means something to me that's, I mean, obviously, separate, but also just as glorious as when people enjoy my music, because, as you know, this podcast is so much my baby. I have nurtured it. I put so much work into it, and I adore it. I absolutely adore it. So if you listen to this and you share with me that you enjoy it,

it really means something to me. I appreciate your thoughts. So thank you. I'm getting distracted now. What are you doing? You're putting me off my day job. I'm not ready and I'm on stage soon. Listen, thank you so much for listening.

Thank you to Ella May for the artwork. Thank you to Claire for doing the production of the podcast episode. Thank you to my husband Richard for doing the editing. Thank you to India for being such a gorgeous guest. and mainly, of course, thank you to you for your beautiful ears. I will see you again next week when I've got another glorious dress. We wish me luck. I am looking forward to the gig.

Yeah, it should be fun. Take care, look lovely.