Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 186: Nadine Merabi

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Nadine Merabi is a British-Lebanese clothes designer. She is the founder of the brand which shares her name and is based in Manchester. She is mother to two little girls aged 4 and 5.Nadine says at the heart of the brand is a desire to instil confidence in young women and make them feel great about themselves. Nadine played hockey for England for 10 years and always felt she struggled to fit in. She says it took until the age of 29 to stop worrying about what everyone thought about her.Post-hockey, Nadine explored other career options and I loved her story about how she reframed a lowly bar job as a glass collector, as being a chance to network. She taught herself how to sew by watching YouTube tutorial videos, and built the Merabi clothes business because she couldn’t find anything to wear. Her brand is now over 10 years old, and in 2025 she won the Entrepreneur of the Year award at the World Retail Congress.She loves it when her daughters see ‘one of mummy’s dresses’ on Strictly. They are certainly part of my go-to touring wardrobe too. They are fun, they make me feel supported, and often - the icing on the cake! - they have pockets!! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Sophia Lester and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it all work. I'm a singer and I've released eight albums in between having my five sons, age between seven years old and nearly 22, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a little bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spilling Plates. Hello, it's morning here in this space and time when I'm speaking to you and I'm walking back home after dropping the kids at school. And actually it's been a pretty peaceful morning. All is well. We're kind of in that nice bit where the exams, the kids were having any

of the sort of inter-turned test or finishing up. So everybody's a little bit more relaxed and, um, Yeah, heading towards a weekend where I've got no work, which is really precious, especially at the moment when I know it's my last weekend like that for a little while. So we've got a nice weekend planned, nice a local, everybody's got a few things going on. I've actually booked quite a nice Sunday lunch on Sunday because I got muddled up and thought it was Father's Day. I was like, check me out. Got myself a good booking at a good time. and it's like oh it's because it's not father's day so taking Richard out with all the boys

which would be very sweet and this week has been really quiet for singing which has actually been kind of what I needed because I love doing what I do but sometimes I feel like my voice just needs some quiet time. I say quiet I always use it all the time anyway but I did one thing last night

which funnily enough is probably brought about by spinning plates because It's a former guest, Alex Head, who I saw last night. She is CEO of a catering company called Social Pantry, and they were celebrating their 15th birthday, and it was really joyful. Everybody in the room seemed so happy.

And the place looked great. It was in Mansion House, really fancy Boreham. It looked glorious, and it was really special. Actually, I say Borem, I think they called it the Egyptian room. I didn't pick up on much Egyptian going on, but maybe I was a bit blinded by the lights and the disco. balls that adorned the space. And everything else has been ticking over nicely.

I've got some nice bits of bobs. I've actually recorded, not one, not two, but three podcast episodes for you this week. And just been kind of catching up on admin. I'm trying to prep myself a little bit because it's about to get busy. Next week I've got gigs in France, Hampton Court Palace, Copenhagen, the week after we've got two in the Netherlands. another one in France. So it's just going to be a bit more like living out of hand-luggage-only bags for the next

couple of weeks. But that's okay. I can do it. Spring back and forth and really, it's not too, it sounds usually going to France or something, but really, you can kind of commute it, can't you? It's not too far. Anyway, mind all that. I hope everything's right with you.

And this week's guest, fashion designer, Nadine Marabi. I've been wearing Nadine Marabi clothes for quite a while. now. In fact, some of my absolute stage favourites are her dresses. They are really nicely tailored. They've got some very thoughtful details. They flatter you.

They feel like they're made for real people. A lot of the dresses have pockets. They have nice colours. Some of them are raised sparkly. And I think she's really clever in what she's built because it's at a price point where you can get something

really special and really well made but it's not kind of, it's the sort of level where I think if you had something really important and a dress you wanted to wear over and over again, you would find it. And yeah, if you do invest in one of her things, I would say they're really well made. Proper lining, you know, look, I jump around in my dresses and I've never had any issues with seams or straps or buttons or anything. And so I was curious, who is? Nadine. Mirabi, who's the woman behind the name of the, it's been sewn into the back of Semine things.

And she's a really fascinating, lovely, bright woman and unusual in her role, not because she's not talented, she's clearly very talented, but because she didn't come from a fashion background. And look, breaking into that sort of luxury women's wear business is a big deal. And she's been now... Nadine Murabi, the label is over 10 years old, and Nadine has two little girls. But she built it from really wanting to find her own thing. She used to be in sport. She was a hockey player for England, no less.

And you used to like to dress up and enjoy her clothes and evening. It was quite shy outside of sport, but through fashion kind of found the confidence, put into running evening events and working. Yeah, with people and nightlife in Manchester and just thought there's a gap here. There's a gap for some really great clothes. Started making things for herself. People said that's great and just managed to upscale it.

And I think it can't be underestimated how successfully she's done it because from the little I understand of business and from speaking to other entrepreneurs, building something up and growing a business at pace that means that the business sustains that growth and it all works is really very

something will be very carefully curated with a really strong team and the team will take you through some of the times when it's felt much more stressful but yeah super impressive so I'm going to I'm actually going to go and grab a coffee now

my boys working in the coffee truck today so I'm going to go and see him while we listen back to conversation I have with the Dean not too long ago and I'm pretty sure it comes up in the chat but she's also very good at paddle like really good

This is relevant to me, not because I play, I don't, but because Richard is obsessed. Loves Paivel. Anyway, so for Pival lovers, England, hockey team lovers and lovers. Yeah, so why don't we start with here and now? What is going on in your work world at the moment? Work world, so I've just flown in from Berlin. I was at the World Retail Congress yesterday and last night. It's actually quite cool because the year before, I'd won on a...

entrepreneur of the year 25, so they actually wanted me to present the 26 winner. So it's a cool event and it's nice to be globally recognised as an actual brand and designer, which felt a bit like surreal a couple of years ago. But yeah, we're just kind of, we are creating our team, our leadership team, and we've got a store now in London and we're set to open our second store. and we just kind of opening the European market, making sure we can still sell to the US, because obviously with the tariffs and everything, you know, we used to have one hub of a warehouse, which was all in the UK, and now we need a warehouse in the US, UK and Europe. So there's a lot going, a lot of plates spinning.

There really is. And it's interesting when you said that going to the, you know, we won the award last year, the retail awards, and you feel like it's nice to go because of only a few years ago. that would have felt like quite a, you know, a different kind of space for you. But your brand is now over 10 years old. So does that mean that it's taken, you know, those years to actually get to a point where you don't have that feeling of, not imposter syndrome, exactly, but just settling into this is actually something you can take ownership of

and it can stand up without having to always explain or qualify or justify it? Yeah, definitely. Honestly, when I won the award last year, I was a bit like, why have I won this award? Like, what have I done? and everyone's like 100% you deserve this award so I think when I went back this year I was a lot more relaxed

I had a few drinks last night at the awards the year before I was like oh my goodness I'll just have one glass of champagne or something I've got to go up on stage and make a speech but yeah I think I'm getting more relaxed but I'm also just I'm very like natural and real so I think people are quite

surprised when they meet me although yesterday obviously in the daytime it was the kind of congress and people were coming up to me saying, oh, you know, love your brand. It's so nice to meet you. And then I'd start speaking and they're like, whoa, I wasn't expecting you to speak like that.

I was like, what do you mean? And like, are you Mancunian? I was like, yeah, what did you expect? Well, that's actually something I was thinking about, not specifically being Mancunian, by the way, but more that, because I've been listening to some other podcasts that you've done and you mentioned when we started chatting that, you know, some of the other chats you've had are quite serious

and they're quite weighted in this entrepreneurial world. And there's almost an expectation of what an entrepreneur looks like, how they manage their day, this sort of termology, quite serious, quite straight, almost like a different type of person to anybody else, if you know what I mean? Like a different lane. And I was actually going to ask you if you felt like you had to, and habit, like a put on, sorry to use their sort of pun of wardrobe,

but almost put on like a suit of a different version of yourself, just to reassure people that your entrepreneur and your entrepreneurialism was going to match the expectation of what that looks like. Yeah, so that's how it started. And at first I was like, I need to speak a certain way. I need to, you know, use longer words. I need to, like you say, act like an entrepreneur.

And all that was happening was, you know, I'd go and do an interview or something and I'd have all my answers prepped. And then I realized that I was like, it just doesn't feel authentic. I could actually just say this more meaningfully. And now I'm at the point where with any interview with anything, I'm like, I don't mind flashing over the questions before I start, but I don't want them more than like a couple of minutes before. And I just want to speak from my heart and just speak naturally

because I've realized as well, and like I say, when I go and do these, Congresses and forums and the rest of it, you know, there's people that are just word perfect and they're kind of reading from a script. And it sounds like great what the saying, but it doesn't go into me. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel like I can fully understand or relate to it. And I'd rather kind of maybe say 20% of the things which people can actually listen to, relate to and feel like they understand it than say 100% of the things where it's quite automated. So I've just got to be more relaxed, really, and not care what people think. Well, yeah, I think it comes across, but I just thought it was interesting because I was listening to, I suppose, you know, if you're looking at a business chat, it is, they often are quite grown up in tone, and it is, it has got that sort of, how can I term it?

I suppose there's phrases around it that make it feel like, almost like an athletic type of, uh, mind-spoken. But actually, it made me think a bit about how you've had different hats on throughout your working life. And actually coming to it as your own person can be such a super strength. And ultimately, when you're in an office space, it is about the personal relationships that get formed. Otherwise, people can work elsewhere. It comes down to the people under that roof and how they communicate with one another. So I think it's not really given the space that it's significant and important. Yeah, it just actually reminded me. It was just touching on what you said. It was about four years ago now. And a lady called Nicola Mendelssohn. She's kind of vice president of Meta. She's like super, super power woman. And I've known her for quite a few years and she knows what I'm like. She's actually from up north. She lives in New York now, but she's like a northern woman. And we have a laugh and the rest of it. And anyway, she did this recorded interview. And at the end of it, she's at the end of it.

she was like, what was that? And I was like, what do you mean? She was like, that's not you. And I was like, I know, but I was just trying to sound really, you know, like I knew what I was doing and everything. She was like, honestly, Nadine, just be yourself. Like, that's how people want to see people. So I think it was actually from that.

Because I felt not many things in life which I've come away with and I felt quite disappointed in myself after I'd kind of done it. And I was like, there's no point trying to be someone you're not because it just doesn't work. That's true. But also, you know, it takes a certain type of person who knows you and feels confident to actually say, what was that, and why were you talking about someone else? Other people should go, that was really lovely, thanks.

The worst thing was, I couldn't say one of the words properly. I think I was trying to say eloquently or something, and I was like, oh, lo, but actually you're, there are, lots of what you're saying makes total sense to me, but also it really contributes to how I was sort of forming you in my head before we met, because I was thinking there were things that really struck me. Firstly, you give me an opportunity to use a word I absolutely love, which is autodidact, because I love it when you get to put that into conversation because it doesn't come up very often.

But I didn't realize how self-taught you are. It's extraordinary that I mean literally learning to sew on YouTube and building the business just through a desire to make this work. And whilst you've obviously had lots of challenges, one thing that really sung out, even though you even spoke about not really loving school, and not feeling like you're really academically sitting where you felt like that, it reflected who you were.

But you've got this real lack of self-doubt. And I wondered, is that something that, does that come from your childhood? Is that from your own parents? Yeah, do you know, I don't actually know, and I can't pinpoint it, but in fact, I do kind of know. I always wanted to kind of, like, fit in. And I'm actually not someone that fits in.

And so when you spend so many years trying to be, what you'd say, normal, you know, I had an unusual name. My dad was so eclectic. You know, we, you know, spent a lot of our time over in Lebanon. And I don't know, I just had this weird feeling that I couldn't be myself and I just wanted to be like everyone else. Obviously, as you get older, that changes. But when you're young, you actually do just want to kind of fit in and be normal with everyone. I don't really know why or what. I wasn't, like I say, I wasn't academic.

I wasn't, I didn't really know what I wanted to do at school. And to be honest, it actually annoys me the educational system why they say to a 14, 15 year old or 16 year old or even a 21 year old, what do you want to be career-wise? I'm like, I don't know. I've not even lived life yet. You know, stop pressurizing me to go down a certain route. And it was actually hockey that I started playing hockey

when I went to secondary school, I didn't actually really like it at the beginning. I was like, this is giving me a bad back. It's a very dangerous sport. Anyway, I started to realize that it got me out of detentions and stuff. So I was like, okay, this is handy, this sport. And it was kind of, I just got put through the system then. I started playing for county and North and then England for over 10 years then. So I guess even when I look back at my hockey days,

where, you know, hockey taught me amazing things, resilience, teamwork, even the point where I was like vice captain a lot of the time and not because I was the best player, but I think I championed the team and understood the importance of culture and how, if you all work together, you can actually achieve a goal. But even when we, I remember, we used to go to, like, Lily Shaw for training weekends and weeks and things. And I would get dressed up in the,

not dressed up, but I'd put a nice top on with some jeans and we'd go for dinner or the team together. And even then like, and they're not mean girls of stuff, but you know, just someone's saying to you, why you're so dressed up?

And I'd be like, well, I'm actually just dressing for myself. I want to like make a bit of an effort because I've just been in a track suit or shin pads and hockey kit all day. But I think even things like that it hurts. It really does hurt when you're younger. And like I say, these weren't nasty girls. It was just maybe more their insecurity of thinking, oh, I probably should make more of an effort

and I'm not doing, so I'll just question why that person has. And I think that's where my love of just dressing for me and dressing for making myself feel good kind of has always been there, but I've obviously got it kind of shut down many times as well. Yeah, well, that's, I can totally picture of that and it's interesting isn't it how wearing what you want to wear can be a very it can be a silent rebellion really against something but

I suppose if your survival instinct has always been keeping a head down trying to you know homogenize and iron out the bits of you that made you feel different than when you do do it and someone says something part of you is pushing against what the typical and another part of you is that I wish you hadn't brought that up because that's actually

that's actually hurting my feelings and it's taken a lot from me for to even get to this point. It's like a, it's that dual thing of trying to push against it, but also wanting it not to be spoken about like that. And it's sad really because, and this is why, you know, I've got two young girls and I want to make sure that they don't go through necessarily what I went through, kind of thinking about myself and mentally, but it's quite sad to think that it took up to the age of 29 for me

to stop caring what people thought about me. And honestly, I was exhausted. I was exhausted trying to be sort of. someone I'm not, exhausted, caring what everyone thought. And I liken it to, have you seen the film Happy Feet? Yeah, well, with the penguin. Yeah, but you know, eventually it's like, he's trying not to dance, trying not to dance, and eventually it's just like, I can't help it, I just need to go.

And I think that's what happened to me, honestly, I got to the point where I was like, I'm just going to like combust or something if I don't just do my creative thing that I want to do. And, you know, people come up to me and I say, oh, you're such an entrepreneur, you're such a great business woman, you know, even women who are in business now saying advice how to do it. I'm like, honestly, I did not start this with this brilliant kind of business plan in mind. I genuinely started this because I couldn't find anything to wear. So it all began with me just making clothes for myself to wear.

I never thought that I'd be in a position where I could make things for other women to wear. but that's just where it kind of, it started with me making my own clothes and then people coming up to me and saying, oh, can you make me something? Can you make me something? And I think this is where I always say to anyone kind of in business is don't wait for everything to be like perfect, just, you know, start somewhere. And actually, that doesn't mean that it's going to go the path you even think it's going to go. It could just open up another door and, you know. So, yeah, it's been insightful. Well, with that in mind, are you the sort of person that makes like five-year plans,

or are you someone that's a bit more following your instinct for the where you find yourself now? So I definitely make plans, however, you've just got to be really agile and move. And, like, you know, gone of the days where even as a business, you make a 12-month plan. Yes, you'll make 12-month plan, but every month it gets reassessed. And, you know, you can change your kind of strategy as and when you need to. It just can't be that this is our 12-month and three-year plan now. It just doesn't work like that. I mean, everything that's going on in the world,

you can't even guess what's going to happen next type thing. Very true. I think in business in general, actually in every career, really, you've got to have so much more agility and ability to pivot than ever before. But actually, I'm thinking if you're the sort of person that could spend a decade building up to playing for England at hockey, do you feel now with your work that you've actually reached where you were supposed to be? Does it feel like it's all converged? Or are you feeling like there there could be other things out there?

In terms of doing something else, do you mean? Yeah, just in terms of following your passion. I have got a new paddle career coming up. I feel like I might have left it a bit too late in my age. No, I'm just joking. That's socially. But I'm like, not really that's social. it very seriously. I actually

started it with me and my husband and I was like, it would be so nice for us to do a sport together and now I'm like, I can't play with you. And you're going to say, no, you don't see you. I'll see you later. I'll finish my 12 paddles. The worst thing is with Playtomic. I don't know if you know this, but it's like, to like, Frank can see

if I've played a paddle game. You can't even hide it. It's like the affair you can't have because you get caught. It's just open for everyone to see if you played. No, I think, you know, for me, Marabi is very much kind of where I want to be. It gives me the freedom to be fully creative. It gives me the freedom to create a team.

And, you know, like, even seeing the team where they started and now, you know, they're getting a mortgage or they're buying a bigger house and they're having family. And, you know, just to feel like I'm actually part of that is like quite special. Yeah, it's really glorious. Yes, and I'm, because I've heard you talk about how at the heart of your brand is a desire to instill confidence in young women. And it makes such sense that especially talking to you firsthand and hearing your own relationship with just allowing yourself to be exactly who you are and not feeling need to iron bits out. It's such a simple thing, but look how much it unlocks. It's crazy, the power of it really.

So if we could talk about the other P in your life, not paddle, but parenting. So you have your own two small women, only four and five. So they're still pretty dinky. But is that something you always wanted, but you're always thinking you might have children one day if you could? Do you know what? I actually thought there was something wrong with me or I was like weird or something

because I never could see myself as a mother. I also never could see myself as a wife or something. I don't know why. It's just something I'd never really thought about or even thought, you know, someone would want to marry me type thing. So when I met my husband Frank, he, you know, I felt like we're very chalk and cheese anyway. And, you know, he comes from a nice family, you know, good background. You went to boarding school.

And I'm like some northern girl that kind of just, you know, chanced away through life type thing. And, you know, not from a big family or anything. So even that I was questioning. And I remember the first kind of six months to a year of us dating. I kept pushing him away because I was like, oh, well, you know, you should go and marry some, you know, posh girl instead or something like that. And again, it's not his fault. That was my own insecurities. So, yeah, I don't know.

And even when you proposed to me, I was like, oh, I didn't even think about that. I didn't really know. I don't know. I just never, I don't think too far in advance on my personal life, to be honest. I'm kind of like, live each day as it is. and yeah I always just thought God I don't know if I it's not that I didn't want to be a mum

I just didn't think about it Yeah or even maybe know what that would look like Yeah I always I always act like I'm like 21 anyway so I'm like It'll be fine it'll just happen Something will happen I think I actually said I said

I didn't want to stress about it And I was like I'll just have two kids before I'm 40 And actually did I had one at 38 and one at 39 Yeah they were close together And both natural home births as well Which is super impressive Honestly though my mindset changed one like completely just completely flipped so we got we got pregnant and I was like

didn't know anything about kind of birth in or anything like that and you know along with many many women probably watch the films of them screaming and in pain and the rest of it so I was just like listen I'm really busy with work I'm just going to go into the hospital have every drug possible and just get the baby out that was in kind of January February time and then In March, I was seven months pregnant, and COVID hit March 2020. And all of a sudden, there was obviously, you know, absolute kind of stress with the business, with, you know, every occasion in the world was cancelled. So, you know, being a woman's occasion where a brand wasn't great at the time. Yeah, talk about needing to think on your agile on your feet with that, I guess.

So we, and then the hospitals weren't letting husbands in. And it was the point where, you know, do you remember when you didn't know if you were going to touch your door handle and you might die the next day type thing? So I didn't even feel safe going into the hospitals. So I actually got introduced to a doula and they introduced me to hypnoburth him. And I spent the next two months hypnoburthing and training my mind and ended up getting two private midwives and had a natural home birth without anything. And I was like, that's just the power of the mind, isn't it? because, you know, that goes to show where, and to be fair, the good thing about COVID is, I probably wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for COVID,

because I wouldn't have had the time to stop, think, assess, and actually sit there or go to bed, listening to hypnobirthing, because when you're in business, when you're in a family, when you've got everything going on, everything's just swilling round, you know, so quickly, whereas it gave me that time to pause and actually think, okay, I could do this birth a different, way. And I don't want to be that woman that kind of talks about how amazing her births were, but I do think there's so many negative birthing stories out there. I don't think enough women talk about how you can have a lovely, beautiful experience as well. So yeah, I had two really, really nice home births. And the second one, I was like, I didn't even wait Frank up for until

like the very end. I was like, you just stay asleep. I know what to do. I know what to do. Wow. But I had like a poo. in there and that's lovely when you go into the pool afterwards. And I think again, I'd join the whole pregnancy. I'd kind of kept myself fit. I'd mentally trained myself. And I'm all for kind of positive affirmations. Again, I wasn't like this before COVID. Okay. And, you know, I was like telling myself that everything was going to be fine and the baby was going to be fine. And I do think there's an element of how kind of life can happen when you think positively. And that's something you said you hadn't really necessarily paid much

attention to that before you not really at all even like meditation if someone said the word meditation i'd be like sounds a little bit kind of fluffy to me and you know maybe just quite hard if you're a busy minded person so how would you do you still involve it in your life now yeah 100% so like i really struggle after a busy busy day and i know i've got so much to do the next day going to sleep so i'll just put meditation on and it all it does is it stops your mind from swilling around and thinking it all but since since the kids go to bed now, I don't know if you know, do you know what Tony is? Yeah.

So it's basically just the Tony. It's just an adult Tony. They're just telling you a story or getting you to think about something and take your mind off it. So, I mean, for me, meditation in the evening is just someone telling me a story. Yeah, because some of them are like some of the apps have, yeah, they set a scene and sort of take you into space and just give you permission, I suppose, just to let go. Because I'd imagine there's so much, if you really stop to think about the pressure, of running the business, it's got your name on it ultimately. So it always comes down to you.

That's a lot to handle. And how have you thought about how to help your daughters with their confidence, given that this has been such a keystone part of your motivation and how you're made up? Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that through the brand it will be instilled with them because, you know, at the core of Marabi, we are very much, like, we designed to make women feel great about themselves. So I'm hoping that, but I'm just very much, like, every time they walk into a room,

I'm like, I'll give them a compliment, or I'll say that they've done something well, and you don't understand the importance of that, just that tiny little word, and if it's just done every day, they all of a sudden start kind of feeling more confident. Well, I'm hoping that happens anyway. And I don't know, it's like, I don't think it's, that I didn't have it as a kid, but I don't think people realize how it can actually shape your kind of personality and shape your positive outlook with it. Well, I guess as well, and I might be, you know, getting this wrong.

But if your first generation British Lebanese as well, that's a new, you're carrying, your parents are doing their best to help you with finding that. But as I understand, you spent some of your early years in the Lebanon and coming back and forth, as you said, so you're immediately not part of maybe with the typical, and you're finding that as well, I don't know. And I think just having like a solid family at home, like Frank, their father is just incredible. He's just such a good dad.

And to be fair, my dad was a really good dad. But I actually think it all kind of fell to pieces. Like my mum and dad split up when I was 14, and then my dad passed when I was 18. And I just felt lost. And I didn't really have any family in the UK. My mum was living in France with her new husband, and, you know, she would come over every so often,

but I just literally had no cousins, no aunties, no uncles, no one. And I just felt really, like, alone and lost and not sure I wasn't particularly good at anything other than playing hockey. I wasn't experienced or trained at anything. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do or how I'm going to survive, but, you know, the one good thing about it was, you know, I didn't really have anything. I didn't have any cash to lose or anything like that. So I was like, it kind of gives you an added drive where you're like, listen, if I don't do this,

I'm not going to be able to survive. Like, there's no one that's going to bail me out here or help me. So you'd be surprised how much that kind of does give you drive and resilience and the desire to actually create something. Yeah, I mean, that's... I'm sorry as well because 18 is so little to lose a parent and to find yourself without a safety net in every way at that point is a big deal. Yeah, I think at that point I just got, literally, he passed and then I went to uni,

and I didn't really know what I was doing at uni, to be honest. I just kind of got sent through the system of playing hockey, and I ended up getting a scholarship through the kind of English hockey association. And then I went, I came home after year one to an empty house of all my dad's wardrobe and stuff and I was like, okay, this is kind of, because I didn't go home in between because I was like, I just can't handle it. And then I went back to uni and I just was like, what am I doing? So I think I was like a quarter of the, quarter of the way through year two. And I just quit. I was like, I don't want to be a quitter, but this is not healthy

for me. It's not, you know. So I came back to Manchester and went away and did a ski season, tried loads of things. I went to work in a bar. This is actually, this taught me a lot actually because I went to work in a really, really nice bar where you got a lot of kind of entrepreneurs,

business men, women, you know, and then you'd get like the local TV stars and footballers and stuff, you know, people who just wanted to spend money. Anyway, you know, everyone who worked in this bar wanted to be like in the best bit working behind the bar.

Nobody wanted to be the glass collector, nobody at all. And I was like, I actually want to be the glass collector. And they were like, why, that's the worst job. I was like, no, no, I actually really like it. I want to be the glass collector. And actually, the reason why was because I got to walk around and speak to everyone. I got to network. So for me, this wasn't working. This was networking, getting me to the next stage. And, you know, it's even things like that where you just have to be thinking outside of the box where how you can get to know that person, how you can get to create. an opportunity for yourself.

So yeah, it was... I love that. I really love that. I think it's stealthy and smart, but also really genuine, because actually when you're walking around, you probably can be like, I'm not sure about those people, this one's really warm. It's even people, if they make eye contact, if they're smiling, if they're welcoming.

Sometimes those jobs can be really under the radar so you can observe and watch and listen. Yeah, and I think what's really important is having no ego Like, you know, that wouldn't have got me very far if I had an ego and thought I'm not looking like the glass collector when I should be stood behind the bar and I was like, I don't have an ego,

I'm just going to do what I need to do to kind of get me through to the next stage. And it was actually after that where I kind of got a bit more of my entrepreneurial mindset where someone approached me and said, listen, I'm going to start doing events

in Manchester. we can create the events on Facebook, we take the venue, we tell the owner we'll give them X amount guaranteed bar spend, we sort out the DJ and we get the guest list sorted. I was like, this is brilliant. This is, you know, and this is when you could create an event on Facebook, which was completely free, and you would basically just say, this is where the party's at.

And you can only get in if you're on the guest list. And honestly, I don't even know, and I don't know what happened in London, but in Manchester it was like every Friday and Saturday, it was just completely, and, you know, really busy, and we charge everyone 20 pounds to come in, which, you know, you get like four or five grand on the door on a night. And I was like, whoa, I've never kind of made money like this. And I think that's where, firstly, it got me to the point where I could live.

And secondly, it was from that where my mind changed, where I was like, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I feel like I'm learning marketing skills. I feel like I'm, again, meeting and networking people. But I was like, I can't find anything to wear. It was from doing all those events. And I was like, I don't want to just kind of on a night out wear something from Zara. I mean, by the way, I do love Zara.

I wear Zara a lot in the day. I get your point. Yeah, I didn't want to just wear something more like running the mill. And I also didn't have or I didn't have, say, 3,000 or 2,000 pounds for a dress. And I also didn't agree with spending that much on a dress anyway. And I think that's where my price point position comes from with the brand as well. Like what's fair and what's right.

So I genuinely one day was like, it just can't be that hard to make a dress. And so I went and bought a sewing machine, went to the local haberdashery store, bought some off cuts of fabric, which even that in itself. What were the first fabrics you just random? So it was like it was what was available. I'm imagining sparkly, but... But it was what was available at first. Yeah, it was all sparkles and stuff.

But it was what was available. So, you know, sometimes you could have one and a half metres of a certain fabric. That all of a sudden puts you in a position where this limits you to what you can do, what style and what design you can do. Which I love. You know, sometimes if someone gave you 10 metres or something, you've got more options. Yeah, which can be really overwhelming. Really overwhelming, yeah.

So I quite liked having needs. off cuts of fabrics from these baskets and honestly they were cheap as anything. To be like, I've only got so much of this, so I'm going to make sure it's got this featured role or it's going to be the shoulders or it's going to be. Or I was like, I've not got enough for that. Okay, we'll do it backless because we've got enough fabric for the back and stuff. So it was, you know, that for me was, A, I was able to create it, but B, I was like working things out as well.

It's kind of engineering too, isn't it? Yeah. I've heard people say that if you can create clothes, then actually you're doing it quite lot of quite advanced engineering as well it's like building anything well i mean the truth is i can't draw so i would see something in my head exactly how i wanted it and i'd try and draw it on paper and i'm like whoa that's not how i see it in my head so that's why i had to learn how to sew just to kind of create what what it was that that i could see in my head but so many people i know that are creatives um they don't necessarily follow that that style of training or that it's more about how

they visualize it and then can act you as long as you can actually share your vision somehow some way. Yeah. It's working and I feel it'd be very easy to get lost in the, in the brilliance of how much you've achieved in the terms of business. But I really want to talk to you about the beauty in your clothes because from my point of view, the reason I really love what you do is because the clothes are really gorgeous. They're really thoughtfully designed. The shapes and the silhouettes are perfect. They always work with magic exactly the same time every time I put them on.

But also they feel lux. I think you're right about when you said about the price point. You get proper lining, pockets, beautiful beading, an extra belt, straps you can take off. There's so much care and attention. It's so extraordinary here you talk about your, you suppose, your business brain

and also your survival instincts, but then you've channeled it into such beautiful things. These are really beautiful clothes. Yeah, I think it's not just what something looks like, though. It has to make someone feel good about themselves. And, you know, as women, we know that if we put something on and it makes us feel fat or it makes us feel pale or it makes us feel anything but our best self,

then it doesn't matter how nice it looks on a hangar or on a model on the website. You know, it's not achieved the goal. of giving us confidence. So for me, it's more just, well, it's equally as important for it to be a beautifully looking product, but then making sure that it kind of pulls you in in all the right places. It feels premium. It feels like you're actually treating yourself. And even like, you know, I remember, like even when I started creating them and people would be like, why are you using that outer Italian crate for lining? And I was like, because it holds you more, like the structure really holds you,

or even like on my jumpsuits, I'll do the inner bodice longer than kind of the waist point where the bowing is just because even me for a woman, I know that if it cuts me in at the waist, especially as a jumpsuit, I'm like, I've got a bit of splodge, you know that waist splodge if you've got something tight here, which you can get away with a fit and flare dress,

but you can't with a jumpsuit. So even the thought of, right, I'm going to make it a longer lined kind of inner corset, just to make sure that that woman feels super confident. And this is all stuff you've just learned through buying fabric and testing things out. I learned a lot from Doombuspoke first. So I've got to listen and understand what women liked, what they didn't like, what their insecurities were.

And so when I design my dresses, jumpsuits, all my collections now, it's always with a certain woman in mind and a certain woman's insecurities or a certain woman's. you know, bits that they love about themselves. And a lot of the time, well, still now to this day, I'll name the dress after someone who I either know would suit that dress. Or if it's someone I don't know, it's like my imaginary person. I know that that person would be called that if she was wearing that dress.

But there's always like a person in mind, yeah. I love that. And actually, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is if you've sometimes first, felt, you know, you've worn the clothes that feel, give you confidence, but then sometimes you felt insecure if someone's pointed out, was there a thought about giving your name to the business? Because I've often wondered about what it's like to have a brand where that brand is young. I mean, I suppose I have it a little bit with my music.

I'm like, you do know you talk about yourself here, do you? I feel like I've had quite a long time to get used to it, though. You're right, I actually making me blush. That was sort of overlooked. Quite a significant point there. But, okay. I get what you mean. I get what you mean.

Well, also, if I do turn it on myself, when I first, I became a solo artist by accident. I was in a band, and then the band's split up, so automatically it was under my own name. And when I first had a bit of success, and I would go out and hear people saying my name or talking about my album as a sort of third person, it made me feel really weird. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm never, well, I don't know. I can't imagine the situation where I would be losing ownership of my name or sharing it. So people might listen to my music, but it's still an extension of me. But if people refer to, like if I say, oh, I'm going to wear tonight mine, Nadine Marabi.

You know what I mean? Or when businesses, I don't know if they decide to sell part of the business, is that something, Did you ever think about what it would feel like to share your name in that way? I think it goes back to the beginning where when I started this company, I didn't have this great business plan. And this is the truth about the name. I spent about two months thinking what to call it, and I couldn't think of anything that I was really, really happy with.

So then I just thought, I'm just going to call it my name. And does it grow in terms of your own confidence? Unwittingly, does it give you something that you're expecting? I separate it actually. I don't, especially if I'm speaking about the brand, I often just say Marabi, without realizing that I don't often ever say Nadia Marebi because I'm like,

that's just, it just sounds a bit weird. So I'll often refer to it as just Marabi. But, yeah, I do see a separation because, again, even say that preconception of what people think I'm actually like to what I am like, you know, I'm not. kind of this typical, you know, designer who you would probably stereotype and even this typical entrepreneur that's, you know, this, you know, had all this experience and stuff. So I do

feel like I separate both of them and I think I do it quite well. I think I used to be very kind of heavy on social media and the rest of it. And then I met my husband 10 years ago. And the moment I met him, I was just like, I don't even feel the need to post to anyone anymore. I'm just like, I feel so kind of happy within myself. I don't need other people to see it. So, yeah, I don't know. I just try not to think about it, to be honest. No, but I love that. I think, well, I think it makes total sense. And I also, I think there's so much to be proud of with saying I'm not a typical entrepreneur or a typical designer. I just think that's so inspiring. I did want to ask, is it true? You went

back to work with your first one she was only five days old? Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about that, Madine. So, to be honest, it was COVID, so everyone was kind of either working from home or on furlough. And VV was born.

We were just knocking through the warehouses. And I was like, I was actually in a very, very fortunate position because I'm sure a lot of women would like to be in a space where they could get work done and have a child. Because a newborn, basically.

they just sleep and eat and poo basically. They don't, you know, and she was a very easy child, I'll be honest with you. I kind of got catfished a bit with the, I got tricked for the second one. I know the feeling. But, yeah, so it was actually a very lovely, wonderful experience where I was in the office. And at that time with VV, we had like a little fabric room, so that was her kind of nursery, so to speak. and I think for me if I was just at home not doing things I don't think it would have been a positive on my mental state type thing

Etty was slightly different two years later well 18 17 months later because everyone was in the office and honestly she just screamed at me constantly that's all she did scream and so I was bit like I can't stay at home with this child screaming at me all the time so I used to put her in the car drive to work and that drive to work was horrific because the car seat and the car I think she she was all scrunched up and she she had to have like cranial cranial osteopoe yeah cranial osteopoe yeah that

was it so it wasn't like her fault she was just um I think she was very refluxy and things so I'd used to take her in I'd get one of those slings and I'd just wrap you know the the fabricy ones I'd wrap around me and I was like she just used to sleep on me in the office I don't know why but when she was at home she screamed and when she was in the office she was fine and I had the sleepy heads I had one of those under my desk and I just used to sit her in there,

lie her in there, I got a hanger and like put some fabric dangling from it and that was a mobile hung from the underneath the desk and it was just like you know I was just like a working mum really

and I think it was really important for other women to see in the office that you know kids don't fully fully stop your life. And like I say, I was very fortunate that it was my business and the business needed me in and present. So I was fortunate to be able to take my kids into work. I'm not sure if everyone would be able to take the kids into work. Maybe not, but then in some ways that makes it really hard as well because you're so hardwired, like their cry goes right to the center of your

brain and trying to think about things when they're there can be really, really tricky. And I'm thinking you also had your baby so close together. I mean, what are your memories of those early years when it's, because that's quite, even with, you know, gorgeous bubbers, it's still really hard and intense, I think. It is, but I will say that it was in the middle of COVID and not that many people were wearing dresses and going out. So I thought, right, what, what can, we need to just have babies now. Well, I'd already, you know, got pregnant before COVID hit, but when, when this kind of COVID thing was dragging on and I was like, let's just get the other one done dusted now and then hope the world opens up after that, which thankfully it did.

Just get the other one. Just done adjusted. Honestly, though, from the second, you know, you're saying about like how you, you know, your memories and stuff, if I hear a newborn cry now, it's like a trigger for me. I'm like, oh my God, it's like I just freeze up. But yeah, I mean, I was very fortunate with the first. She was good as gold and then bless the second. She, you know, I think I would have.

Secondborn has come along with a different energy thing. think I would have got away too easily if I hadn't, everyone was just like, Nadine, your baby doesn't, as in Vivi, she doesn't, she doesn't cry, she doesn't do anything, you know, and I was like, oh, it's just because I'm so, you know, calm and, you know, and then the second one, I was like, what is that? You just needed a second one to remind you that the positive affirmations and all that don't, don't always transmit. I was like, there's been a blip. There's been a blip somewhere. No, I think, and did you worry at all about your drive or your creativity? because sometimes I think you can feel like you have to put yourself back together

or at least there's a sort of new version of yourself after having a baby. No, not really. You know, like I say, well, they were both in the office with me from day five. And I remember Etty was two months, and I had a London Fashion Week show and presentation. And the PR company were like, I said, listen, I'm going to have to bring the baby to London with me. And they were like, oh, right, okay.

and obviously, you know, this isn't bad against them, but they hadn't had kids at this point. And I was like, you know, I'm going to have to bring the baby to the event as well. Oh, no, you can't, you won't be able to bring the baby. And I'm like, well, I think you'll find I need to because I'm breastfeeding. And I don't, I'm not using kind of formula at all. So if the event's like three or four hours, I need to bring the baby with me. And they're like, oh, I'm not sure I went.

Well, listen, if I can't, I'm not coming. So you kind of need me there. I do think it's lovely how, you know, as a mum, you just kind of bring that child and they just become like your best friend and they just go around doing everything with you and I had one of those dunas where, you know, like the pop-up pram which turns into a car seat and literally, so I'd go on the train and it was like a carry seat and then all of a sudden the wheels came down and I could just, you know, walk through the streets with them. So genuinely I just walked around.

with a duna and a sleep ahead for the first kind of six months of each child's life. Yeah, and there's something when you're kind of, I think sometimes when you're in the midst of it, you're just in the doing and you look back and you think, wow, that was actually, I was actually managing so much at the time. But when it's all new and you've got, I think there must be some sort of adrenaline and our hormones that kind of pushes you through the sleep deprivation and the, you know, how sort of raw everything can be. you don't realize how I remember when I'd start

breastfeeding and started using formula and I'd start putting the scoops in and I'd be like one, two, three and I'm like okay, I won't forget how many I've done, I'm like, wait was that three scoops or five scoops? And I'm like, how have I just literally forgotten that in a second?

And it is true, they call it baby brain, don't they? Yeah, yeah. And I think it is sleep deprivation. Like you survive off like four hours a night. I know. Sometimes not even consecutive. for us. Sort of broken sleep.

But with your, I was hearing a conversation you had where you said that you would make your evenings about bedtime and your girls and that's a time when work wouldn't disturb you and then weekends are for family time. Is that something you've kept going with? Yeah, I do try and stick to that as much as I can basically because, you know, my phone never stops with work. I'm always on, you know, call for anyone and everyone and I don't want that to change. however I do say between kind of six and seven

you can still message me but I won't be replying so I didn't want to be like oh I'll message you back in a bit or I'll call you back I was literally like six or seven I'm sorting the kids I'm doing bath time doing bedtime because I hate I hate being there and not being like mentally present and I've experienced not myself but from close friends my godson passed at the age of five

another friend ended up having a stillbirth. And I'm like, you know, this time is so precious. This, you know, I think unless you surround, unless you've know someone that's been around someone like that, you probably don't fully, fully appreciate kind of that. And I probably wouldn't have done before that happened. I'm so sorry. That's heartbreaking. It is. It is. It's a child, isn't it? But I was like, you know, I do work really hard. I'm not fully there for them 24-7. And so when I am there, it's really important for me to be present. And by present, I mean, not typing on my phone.

Because I hate it. Like, I do it. I still do it at the weekends and stuff. I'm not, you know, saying I'm never on my phone in front of them. Because your phone becomes like a little mini office. Yeah. Yeah. And then you see, I'm just wanting to be on the phone and stuff.

And, you know, we do a lot of, you know, work comes through WhatsApp and stuff. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm actually working, but I know it looks like I'm just messaging my friend rather than kind of, you know, watching, you, you know, you do a cartwheel. Yeah. Watch this. Watch this.

Watch this. Watch this. Okay, I'm watching. No, no, watch it. Watch it. I know. And it's like sometimes you've sort of

realize you turn into a caricature. I think it was only yesterday. I was replying to an email and it was around supper time and the kids were like, Mommy, there's like three of them were asking for me. And I was like,

I'm just trying to reply to this producer. And I'm thinking, I sound like an absolute prat. Like, no one cares. Yeah. Like, not interesting at all. When you're, When you've had this pathway that's led to this,

what sounds like genuine kind of deep-rooted fulfillment and a sense of actually coming completely into yourself, it can feel quite different when you raise your kids in a way that is not similar to your own childhood, but are there things about their childhood that are similar to yours, you think? I think I basically, I'm so needing with them. Like, I literally shower them with hugs and kisses

and everything. And I don't really remember that too much as a child. And so I think I overcompensate in that way. And I'm always like, you can't do any harm by showering with more love and affection. I actually listened to, I was listening to an audio book once and they've done some trial. It was horrific. I don't even know how they got away with doing it, but basically, I don't even want to say

what it is, but it got to show that. kids from a very early age if they're not, you know, given love and affect, you know, it's actually horrific. They basically, is it the one where they replaced? They were born. They got like a robotic toy to basically be called Mama. Maybe that's another one.

No, they were basically. They withdrew all sort of touch. Yeah. And they would make the mothers go really impassive if they were interacting. And it was just, I mean, we now know that love is literally part of your neurological development. It's not just a, it's not like an optional extra. It's actually part of what makes us

into resolved, capable humans. And I think the more and more like AI is coming to effect now, you know, it's so important to have that human interaction and to have that real kind of touch and understanding. So, you know, it's, you know, AI is going nowhere and it's just going to get more and more where people are kind of, you know, using systems and processes and digital. kind of technology with everything. Yeah, I know, which is quite, well, actually, I was going to say it's quite scary, but actually I get the impression from your daughters are going to absolutely know what it is like to be agile.

And that's actually what people are now teaching kids anyway. So, you know, if you can really already, you're actually ahead of all that, I think, in terms of trying on different jobs and reacting to things and seeing the good that can come out of even something as simple as collecting the glasses in a bar. You know, you said it actually ended up as being something. super significant. But isn't that wild? Because I think you can really overlook those moments and it's when you go back and you're actually now I can really see the value of what that gave me.

Yeah. And I think, you know, I do travel a lot and I do worry about leaving the kids. Like that is a worry of mine and, you know, work does take me traveling quite a lot. But I also think, you know, it's really good for them to see mummy working and, you know, trying to create something. And I hope that that, you know, will encourage them and, you know, I hope that the kind of that will give them a good work ethic mindset. I think, you know, they're still young, the five and four,

and they genuinely think that I go to work to get money to buy them ice creams on holiday. So not to take us on holiday, just to buy the ice creams on holiday. But I love that. I love how, like, just so beautifully naive and, you know, that mentality is. Yeah. But it's funny, like, especially over Christmas time, there'll be, you know, me and my husband will usually have like a date night or something on a Saturday night and my mum will babysit and we'll go out and then my mum will put like strictly on the TV

just before they go to bed and my mum's like, oh look there's one of mummy's dresses. And the kids just think that we're there at this, you know, like dancing and like, you're in dancing and then they'll be like, they're so cute that like my mum will send me a video with them both pointing the TV being like, there's mummy's dress. That's so good. You must have it with your kids and, you know. Yeah, or sometimes they'll hear a song that I've done a cover of and they'll be like, oh, this is you and I'm like, no, I don't actually sing like a prayer.

I wish I had. But yeah, and I think, you know, they've got hopefully quite a casual, like, what would you say, like pleasure, proudness, you know, pride in what I do, but without it being anything too lauded, because I don't, you know. Well, they've grown up with it, haven't they, I suppose. They have. And also, they're equally, you know, eye-roll and unimpressed, you know, for parts of it too. But I think you're right about it in the fullness of time.

I think seeing your parents driven, we're quite transparent about, you know, the ups and downs of what we do, the mechanisms behind it, but also the core of it, the absolute love we have for it. And I think that's pretty infectious, actually. And also the joy of being creative and trying things out. And if it doesn't work, there'll be something else you can take with from it. I think that's pretty invaluable. Yeah. I think growing up in a creative home is a really nice space. And for so many of us, you can feel like you're in a space where you're not allowed to just,

I mean, look what value there is in just being your whole yourself and apologetically you. It shouldn't be such a super strength to discover it or to hold onto it. And when kids are little, you see them with it innately. And then it can sometimes get diminished, you know. So keeping it amplified is a good thing. And home is always a safe space to come home to, isn't it? Yeah. That's what you want.

We have quite a few house parties and stuff with the kids, kids and adults. And everyone's always like, like the moms and dads are like, Dean, I can't believe you're so relaxed in your house and stuff. And I'm like, a house is for living. Like, I don't want it to be a show home. And if, you know, a kid drops catch up on the white sofa, I'll work it out and I'll clean it. And, you know, it is kind of, for me, it's really important that, you know,

it's more about the time you spend together than having that perfect, you know, home or environment, which is naturally real life as well. Definitely. And I want to, well, I want to finish up by saying how much I love your clothes. I really do. They've been part of my touring wardrobe. They're like my go-to outfits to make me feel good. And I think when you were talking earlier about how you design, it made me realize that one thing I really love is that sometimes when you put clothes on, you feel like the designer was sort of thinking of someone else, but you just happen to enjoy it too. But actually with your clothes, I always feel, it feels like they are there to help me and support me, which is not something you get from every brand, I think. And also there's thoughtful details and they're fun.

Yeah, they are fun. So I make sure to take them always fun places. Thank you. Yeah, well, thank you so much. And sometimes I've had a nice surprise where I put a dress on and I'd be like, oh, pockets. Yeah, for your phone or your lipstick or something like that. Yeah. And hopefully with the time and we haven't kept you from your paddle tonight, and that's important. But thank you. Keep doing what you do, and I'll keep being here to wear it.

Thank you. It's been amazing, thank you. Greetings. It's now Sunday. I talk to you, coffee in my left hand, a little phone in my right, under a tree in my garden on a really beautiful morning. And they've just finished it now, but across, not too far from our house, across the way is a green where they've been doing a little local festival. And on the Sunday, they always do the church service outside. And there's a brass band, and they do some hymns. And actually, it's very sweet to hear it.

Sort of coming over on the air to our garden. And, yeah, we've got our coffee truck at the festival this weekend. So if you ever do make it to four leaf, Fowl coffee place in Chiswick, then Nile is working there today, and he's there most days, actually. He's the manager, and he's lovely, and he makes a very good coffee. So, I digress. This weekend has been actually pretty chilled. I haven't been working the whole weekend, which has been so lovely.

So I managed to see a friend on Friday on my mum, and I also went out to see a play, a friend's daughter's play, which is very good. and then yesterday we spent the day with the kids and ended up with a couple of extra kids for a sleepover. So it's been really social and fun and chilled. And then today we're going out for Sunday lunch because I accidentally got my dates muddled and thought it was Father's Day this weekend

and it's not as a next weekend. And then the restaurant message me and were like, I see you've marked that you're coming for Father's Day but it's not actually Father's Day. And I had to pretend and said, oh, yeah, I know that. It's because we're all together. But actually I got it wrong. I don't know why I felt I needed to pretend to the restaurant that I didn't know when I was

that got wrong. But that's what I did. But it should be nice, proper pub lunch by the river. And later on we're going to go and see Masters of the Universe. So that's the way my weekend is going and I hope your weekend has been similarly chilled, hopefully, and you've enjoyed the sunshine. And thank you so much to Nadine for such a gorgeous chat. Sorry, I normally don't come off the back of my chats with such a wonderful.

ramble myself, but I think it's such a different mood to when I recorded it to the intro earlier that I felt I had needed to contextualise it. But yeah, it was glorious, taught in a dean, and super inspiring. And I know she's not the first guest that's made me feel this way, but it is a very special thing when people are so imbued with a sort of can-do attitude that it makes you feel like you can do. I mean, what a special thing. Oh, I think I just got a little spider on me. so listen to how chilled it I did there it is oh it's tiny it's one of those tiny ones oh there's it gone

um I lost it it was on my hair sorry little spider I hope you're wherever you are you're right um still at still at least you could hear my voice like chill down about spiders I actually am pretty chilled about spiders I used to hate them when I was a kid and I don't care um

but yes Rindadeen I like the idea that she'd started making her clothes and pushing it and pushing it. But I also think, you know, as someone who's won Entrepreneur of the Year Awards, I think that you can see that she's obviously got a large amount of business now and the smarts when it comes to that stuff too. So very good combo. And also, happily for us, fabulous dresses.

Thank you so much to Nadine for coming to talk to me. Thank you to Clare Jones for producing. Thank you to Richard for editing. He's actually sat at the other side of the other side. the garden and our little seated area editing the main book of the podcast as I speak. Thank you to Ella May for the gorgeous artwork. Thank you to you for joining me again. We've still got a few weeks of the podcast left with this series.

You guys have been coming up with some really good suggestions recently. So thank you. I'm following a few really interesting leads. And yeah, onwards, my loves, onwards. Speak to you seen. Have a lovely week.