Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 23: Rosa Bloom

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

This week I meet Rosa Bloom, designer of the sequinned capes and cat suits that have brightened so many festivals. They've been described by one of her customers as 'wearable happiness' and I love the superhero feeling I get when I wear her clothes on stage.  In our chat I hear about growing up in a household shared by three families, and about how she and her husband chose a new family name when they had their little boy. She also tells me about how her husband offered to take over as primary carer of their little boy Otto when he was a few months old, helping her continue with her company but resulting in him being diagnosed with post natal depression. We talk about adapting to life in a pandemic and how we can't wait for festivals to be back on! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Heya, how you doing? Yeah, you're right. I sound a little cheery. It's because we've had a

really sunny day here today. I am speaking to you from the past, but not too distant past. It's Saturday night. We've had a nice sunny day um here in london town so actually we spent the day in the garden i say it was sunny i should probably give you some context that was actually incredibly brisk still it's about 11 degrees so i wouldn't describe it as balmy but that didn't stop a little little bit of deck chair action in the garden. And playing outside and t-shirts. And we did go out without any coats, which was pretty crazy. But felt good.

And one of my kids got stuck in a tree for a minute. Which I found very funny when I probably should have been helping him. That was across the road in the park. But he's down safely now. Just in case you're worried about that. He's completely fine. That was Ray the road in the park. But he's down safely now, just in case you're worried about that. He's completely fine. That was Ray. He loves climbing trees. If you know any small people, if you're the parent to a small person, do your small people like scaring you by climbing up trees? My eight-year-old Ray will climb right to the top, and I've had to rescue him a couple of times. In fact, I probably shouldn't tell you this,

but one time we were out and he lost his footing and found himself dangling, probably something like 10 foot above the ground. I'm laughing, remembering. And it was just me and him. And I stood underneath him and I said, Ray, look at me, Ray. Look at me in the eye, Ray. There's only one thing you can do. You're going to have to let go and I'm going to catch you. And he went, okay. And I went one, two, three, and on three, he let go. And I found myself quickly shutting my eyes and covering my face with my arms and an instinctive thing of, oh my goodness, a quite a, you know, big eight-year-old child's butt as I land on my head. So I did kind of half catch him but he did slightly hurt one ankle I'm sorry that doesn't put me in a good light but I just wasn't I was prepared with

the talk but not the walk I think you would say but anyway it didn't stop him he's still climbing trees so this week's guest is actually a really exciting one because it's somebody that I've been a fan of absolutely ages uh an amazing designer called Rosa Bloom and I didn't know very much about Rosa Bloom except that her name was the same name as her clothing line Rosa Bloom clothing which I guess is primarily started out as festival wear but it's so incredibly beautiful that for me I've never worn it um solely at festivals I've worn it for whenever I need to feel like a superhero I wear it for stage clothes she makes these beautiful clothes essentially catsuits and playsuits that are made with these gorgeous huge iridescent sequin discs so you feel

like you're covered in the most beautiful of fish scales when you're wearing them and um I wanted to speak to her I didn't know very much about her at all, except that she made these outfits. She's had a nice tone of voice in, you know, the emails I was getting from the company and on her website. And I knew that she had changed her name by deed poll to Rosa Bloom. And our husband had two. So I knew that they had a little boy who also had the surname Bloom and they sort of started a new family name as Bloom. And that intrigued me enough to get started. I thought that sounds like an interesting person that's done that. Little did I know until she came around with Rosa that she'd also been grown up as part of a commune, that her husband had done the majority of child care when

she was running her business and actually went through postnatal depression that was very similar to the maternal kind rather than the traditional paternal kind so I learned all sorts about how the hormones work when you're raising a newborn and who's the primary care and how it affects what's going on with you emotionally and internally and while I'm talking to you I've got my cat Rizzo really staring at me what is it Rizzo are you intrigued by what I'm saying you know what Rizzo's got quite a sparkly collar but I reckon one of Rosa Bloom sequined things around her neck would look awesome Rosa if you're listening maybe consider a line of cat collars no I don't the market is tiny it would just be Rizzo fancy Rizzo wandering around West

London with an amazing collar um anyway the thing I love about Rosa's Cossack catsuits, and I'm sure I say it a lot in the interview, is that they have the ability to transform me. I'm not the most body confident of women. In fact, I've always been quite aware of the bits of my body that don't really do the things I want them to. But actually, I'll put on a sequined catsuit and feel invincible. And that is an amazing

thing with an item of clothing isn't it and who as usual I'm rattling on so I will leave you to the chat I had with Rosa and I will see you on the other side uh yeah there's a lot of interesting things twists and turns in this one and I really enjoyed her company and I enjoy yours lots of love see you in a bit it's really nice to meet you um I feel like upstairs I've got a room that's kind of like a shrine to what you create am I one of your most prolific customers? Definitely. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yay. Absolutely. In fact, look, we're near your sequin bunting. Yeah, so that's the red sequin bunting.

And then next door in the playroom, I don't know if you saw. Yes. I've got the multicoloured one. Yeah, well, actually, it was so lovely. During lockdown, when you were doing the kitchen disco, I had so many people messaging me, sending me screenshots going,

is this your sequin bunting? And then when you're wearing the clothes, is it? Rosemary, is this one of yours? Oh, well, going, is this your sequin bunting? And then when you're wearing the clothes, it's like, Rosemary, is this one of yours? Well, the thing is about the sequin bunting is I've had that up for absolutely ages. I can't remember when I got it now. I feel like you did it as a sort of limited edition thing, I think. Maybe about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I think. And I put it up there then and it's just been there the whole time.

So it's a permanent fixture. And your clothes are just so joyful. And I think this year has been a bit... So I feel like even talking to you is going to just be a nice thing to think about. You know, sparkly clothes and people and festivals wearing them and all that. It feels like a bit of a distant memory at the moment, doesn't it?

I know, I know. I mean, we're recording this now just before Christmas, but actually this won't be going out until, I think probably about February kind of time. So hopefully we'll be in a slightly more optimistic spot. I'm feeling kind of quite good about things. I mean, I've got a tour in May and I'm feeling quite positive about it right now.

And I saw some ridiculous, one of the festivals, I must follow them on Twitter or something. They'd done something that said, great news about the vaccine. Now check out our festival lineup. And I was like, it's a bit too on the nose that. You're never supposed to be like, vaccine equals buy tickets.

I mean, I have to say that is exactly what went through my head when I heard about the vaccine. I was like, oh my God, Glastonbury might actually be able to happen next year. I know, that would be incredible. I mean so what what came first with you the was it the I mean is something going to festivals always part of your life anyway yeah I grew up going to festivals my mum used to take us to festivals when we were younger so it's very much kind of a part of our childhood kind of before really the whole sort of festival scene exploded I feel like when I was a

kid there was only you know a small handful of them um and we used to go every summer and then yeah it felt like it just that that whole kind of scene just you know really took off in kind of in my teenage years and suddenly there was just like loads of festivals happening so yeah it very much was festivals first and that kind of okay yeah and so when you went used to go who's in your family do you have like siblings yeah so I've got a brother and sister um and my mum my dad used to come sometimes but he's a bit more of a homebody so it used to sort of generally be something that my mum would do with us really so she'd whisk you off like the three of you yeah and like camping and everything yeah oh wow your mom that's impressive yeah on her own yeah i think i mean not when we were really young um but probably from sort of eight nine ten

oh still that's pretty pretty is that glastonbury and things like that no we didn't go to glastonbury actually we did smaller ones we went to um one called the big green gathering which was a lot of the kind of greenfield area at glastonbury is sort of connected to that one it was real kind of the whole festival was like solar powered and wind powered and oh wow loads of kind of like I don't know if you've ever been to the green crafts area at Glastonbury like yeah that kind of yeah stuff so that that's a really lovely one and then we went to another one tiny little one in Wales called Beyond the Border which was a storytelling festival um so yeah not so much kind of like big music festivals but yeah quite sort of eco and yeah

yeah quite sort of family focused and very much so yeah it sounds a little bit like a sort of um festival version of something i used to be a member of which i'd completely forgotten about till i heard you talking called the woodcraft folk have you ever heard of that yeah well you were a member i wasn't actually but i had friends who were yeah it was kind of like the hippie version of the brownies exactly and i really wanted to be a member because boys and girls were both members so i thought that was quite exciting yeah yeah i mean this is when i was like a primary school but i still knew that i was quite exciting dynamic um and at first there was a really long waiting list for the woodcraft folk yeah and eventually i was allowed in um yeah i just forgotten all about that i did a couple of camps

and things but yeah that was all kind of um very ecologically minded and environmentally friendly and about um you know they tell you like indigenous tales from faraway lands and it was quite sort of yeah it was quite hippie and right on but also really lovely yeah I feel like that stuff kind of makes quite a big impression when you're a kid because it's such a contrast to school and kind of the sort of rigidity of school yeah but suddenly yeah having that contrast I think is it can make quite a big impression on you at that age yeah particularly I mean I don't know I think you're probably younger than me but I grew up in like in the 80s which was very much sort of Thatcher Britain so I guess things like that were kind of like the counterculture in a way

to the rigidity of you know big corporations and big money and it was like well no there's another way to do things so I think probably that that worked for me as well even on that level when you're a kid it's a lot more cozy and comforting and feels a lot more about your own future maybe when you're small because it's all about what you're handing down to the next ones rather than what you can get for yourself yeah and when you used to go to these festivals were you always dressing up was it quite yeah I mean I I've I love I've always loved dressing up since a really young age um my my dad tells a funny story when when I was four and my so my my brother and sister are twins and um they were probably two one and a half two

my parents had the bright idea of taking us all to Peru on holiday for a month. So my dad's brother and his family were living over there. So they were like, let's go and visit them. I think they had a pretty stressful time with three children under four in Peru. But my dad tells this story about how we were halfway up Machu Picchu and apparently I sat down on a rock in a grump and said, I want to go home and play with my dressing up clothes yeah I have to say taking small kids away you could show them the most incredible thing but they're likely to be like I'm kind of lost on them yeah exactly this is not for me yeah yeah but yeah Peru with three small people is impressive stuff and now that you have your own

small person you probably have a slight even more like respect for what that might entail yeah um because you know have one little boy I do yeah he's just turned two in September you said yes so he's the same sort of age as Mickey who's going to be two next month it's a very busy age it is yeah busy is the word yeah high level of interaction absolutely um yeah so Rosa Bloom the your clothing because is it right your name officially is Rosa Bloom as well yeah so it didn't used to be um I was born Rosa Hirsch Holland so my mum is Hirsch my dad is Holland and so us kids got both because my mum didn't change her name when she got married yeah um so yeah I grew up Rosa Hirsch Holland and then um when we got married I actually I I fell pregnant about six months before no I basically I was I ended up being six months pregnant when

we got married so I fell pregnant a bit before we were planning to I was not planning to get married pregnant um and so it kind of actually brought the whole conversation about the name thing kind of more to the forefront because I think if I wasn't pregnant we probably probably would have both just kept our names um and got married I would have stayed Rosa Hirschholland my husband would have stayed Sam Ludgate um but because I was pregnant we were talking about what was the baby's name going to be and so we you know thinking about surnames what we're going to do you know obviously like Hirschholland and Ludgate it's a bit clunky it doesn't double barrel very well which is what my preference would have been um so then we started talking about maybe we should just you know start a new family surname

all together um and it was actually my husband who suggested Bloom um and we kind of talked about it in a sort of jokey way at first and then it sort of became a more serious conversation and then we just thought why not you know it's a lovely word um so we just yeah went for it but actually when we didn't do it when we got married you can't if you're changing to one or the other person's surname you can just do it on your marriage certificate but if you're changing to a new surname you have to do it through deed poll okay and we were in the process like shortly after we got married we were we started buying a house and we thought probably not a good idea to try and change our name part way through the process of buying a house so actually when our son was born he was the first one to be bloom

so can you do that then can you can you dictate your child any any surname yeah i actually didn't know that yeah i know it's funny isn't it so he was bloom first so for a while all three of us had different surnames which caused a lot of confusion to some people um and then yeah we finally got around to doing ours so we're all bloom now I think that's lovely it must have felt really empowering as well yeah to start something that's completely your own. Yeah, it did. It did. It felt like a really nice kind of glue for the family. Yeah, I honestly had no idea that when you have a baby, I thought you had to, I thought basically that there was a sort of default thing

that you had to be the, well, actually, God, I'm thinking about that. It's really old-fashioned of me to not even question it. Yeah. Because my kids are all Jones. Yeah. And like you, I knew for definite I wasn't going to change my surname.

And did you have the conversation about what the kids' surnames would be? Well, again, a bit like you, when we had our first baby, it was a bit earlier than we were expecting. So Richard and I hadn't been going out very long when we found out we were having a baby. It was about six weeks. So I don't think there were lots of conversations being had about many things other than a kind of,

ah! There were just so many things to organise. Yeah. Like, where are we going to live? And where our second date should be. I think surnames are really far down the list. And actually, because Richard's surname is Jones, I like the simplicity of that.

And I've always quite enjoyed the fact that you can put pretty much any name with it and then it's Jones. Yes. Which I got quite, some of them I've been a bit bolder with. So my third is Ray Holiday Jones. And Kit is Kit Valentine Jones.

And I think you can sort of be quite outlandish and then just put this real like no it's true i definitely feel like having bloom as a surname you have to be a little bit more careful about what you put in front of it because it can kind of end up sounding a bit twee or a bit kind of like a cartoon character i mean rose bloom is quite a hilarious name i do get comments about that sometimes. You're going, oh, Rosabloom. Like, you know, it doesn't sound like a real name. I think it's lovely, though, and it looks nice written down. But obviously that's what you'd already called your clothing company. Yeah, so it's actually a really natural transition,

and a lot of people thought it was my name already, so. And where did the name come from for the clothing, then? Why did you decide on the name? It was a nickname that a friend gave me years and years ago, like before I started my business. Oh, that's sweet. She just started calling me Rosa Bloom, Miss Bloom, and it just kind of stuck. And so when I was starting the business and thinking about names,

it just felt like quite a natural, yeah, it just felt like the obvious choice, really. Well, I think as well it works for what you do because there's something about this sort of optimism of the clothes and obviously blooming is something where it's really thriving it's flourishing so there's lots of positive associations and your brand is so unremittingly positive isn't it yeah yeah yeah it is wearable happiness one customer said oh I'll take that wearable happiness good isn't it that's gorgeous who needs to you know pay copywriters to come up with this stuff just ask your customers no that's so true and I mean for me I think the thing I feel is that you know it's it's one thing to have sparkly things um and I am

you know a bit of a magpie um you're sat here looking at what you can probably see I like bright colors and I like things that catch my eye but actually um when you're performing or or you know if the onus is on you in any way if it's your birthday party if it's you know your wedding whatever um it's not just you want to feel um that if you if you're going to take on the sparkle you actually want to feel empowered by it and some sparkly things are just pretty and they're kind of like oh that's a nice sparkly dress oh that's a nice sparkly top but I think your outfits have this element where it's almost like a sort of superhero type thing. It's really interesting that you say that

because that is the feedback that I get from people. And it's not like it was something that I consciously set out to kind of specifically create. I just designed clothes that I wanted to wear. But a lot of people use that word empowerment. My friend calls her place it her empowerment suit she's like I feel like yeah I wear it I get that as well I do and you know it's got beautiful details like the pockets and things but I must confess I only

when I knew I was going to speak to you it's only then I really sort of got to know the story behind all the clothes so is it is it true that everything that I own will have been born in Bali yeah that's pretty amazing yeah and so can you tell us a little bit about the story of how how it came to be yeah so um I started the business when I was 24 just turned 24 um and I literally just booked a ticket out to Bali. So I'd been working for another company before that called Fairy Love. And I started out working for them at festivals when I was a teenager, kind of on school holidays. And they had their stuff made in Bali.

And I'd never been out to Bali while I worked for them. But just from what they said, it felt like a really good place to go and start making things on quite a small scale because there's a lot of home industry there it's not like going to kind of big factories and having to place huge kind of minimum orders um it's very love festival sort of where then yeah yeah yeah fairy actually they make fairy wings and kind of like tutus and yeah as they should yeah I went into fairy love and there were no fairy wings yeah and actually I think you know they had that real strong ethos before it was kind of

um a buzzword of like body positivity and body inclusivity and you know they'd make tutus into up to like a size 22 you know they were really into this was like you know more than 15 years ago now they were really into that thing of just like encouraging people to dress up and feeling you know putting on clothes that make you feel good make you feel empowered so I think that there's definitely kind of roots in that it taught me a lot because I think at the time that I started working for them I was quite a shy teenager I was not confident about my body at all and actually they really kind of helped like bring me out of my shell in a way um so I've definitely kind of carried that thread through in my business so yeah booked a ticket out

to Bali and literally just walked around the streets and you know I had a suitcase full of I've always kind of collected a lot of vintage clothes and kind of old circus costumes and all sorts I kind of had this suitcase full of like probably out of each other you know my kind of collection of sort of vintage clothing that I loved and just walked into little tailor's shops you know the kind of tailor's shop that you know tourists would go and get a suit made or something and started having bits and pieces made and spent a couple of months out there and the first couple of years of doing it were really like such an experiment I did such a variety of different things um and then the sequins was one thing that I kind of hit on and it just took off like that was just what

people wanted um I remember specifically those big sequins that you now use on everything yeah big round sequins and I remember um the first time I had a sample made of the sequin leggings. And it took weeks. I kept calling up the shop and saying, you know, they've done... Because all the sequins are hand-stitched. And they never kind of made anything with that amount of hand-stitching on it. So it took weeks and weeks and weeks to make the sample. And I remember going into the shop and putting them on

and just having this light bulb moment of like, wow, wow these are amazing and then they told me the price and I was like oh my god you know what I'd have to charge for those no one would pay that for a bit of clothing at a festival um so I didn't actually have any made to sell and I took this sample back to England with me what color were they these like they were like a mermaidy blue oh nice I've still got the actual pair and I remember walking around the festival wearing them and literally having people almost like falling at my feet like where did you get your leggings from I must have those leggings so then I thought hmm okay I think I better you know actually make some to sell next year and it just took off from there and how did did you have to

work out the price point or was it actually what they ended up being so yeah so I just put the price on them that I had to put on them to kind of make them you know financially viable and people paid it willingly and it was a real realization that actually you know if if people want something and if they kind of see the quality and recognize the work that's gone into it, they'll pay that money for it. So, yeah, and then, you know, kept going out to Bali every year, spent two or three months out there every year.

And just, I've ended up working with a woman called Annie, who's a Balinese woman. And she's a working mother as well, actually. She's an amazing woman. She split up from her husband quite a long time ago now I think he ran off with the housekeeper possibly um and she's got three daughters um and she's a real kind of self-made woman like she taught herself pattern cutting um and set up her business and she's made like an amazing success of it and I'm now sort of her one of her main um customers and so yeah she's I've spent a lot of time with her she's like my barley mum so how long have you

not even known her for about 10 years yeah yeah probably 12 years now okay and when you went on that first trip when you're 24 was that on your own yeah did that feel quite quite a bold thing to do or um it did I'd gone travelling for six months when I was 19, when I took a gap year. Yeah, so I kind of had a taste. And I was quite an independent person and I think I was sort of quite mature in a way and it didn't phase me that much going and doing that.

And I think I also just had that slight kind of naivety that you have when you're that age where you don't think too much about things, you just go and do that and I think I also just had that slight kind of naivety that you have when you're that age where you just you don't think too much about things you just go and do it and you just try and you just learn yeah it's funny isn't it because I feel like I'm a lot more timid about those sorts of things now yeah it's funny isn't it I know why does that happen because you look back and you think golly I put myself in some situations that actually could have had really different outcomes. Yeah. But, yeah, what is that sort of invincibility? Or just a sort of, it's not even like you feel invincible. It's more like you just think, it's probably going to be all right,

or I'll figure something out. Yeah, you just work it out, yeah. But I do think independent travel, that's not something I have got lots of experience with, actually. And I'm quite jealous of it, in a way, because I never had the year out bit and loads of my girlfriends did it and sent like these amazing you know very impressive photos but I do think it's quite a special thing to be able to travel and just be in your own company and follow your nose and yeah so did you meet Annie on that first trip not the first trip I think the

second trip I met her yeah and it was a really lucky meeting we were introduced by a woman that I'd met um and it was yeah really kind of lucky meeting and we did this the sequins themselves is that something then that's easy to get hold of in Bali is that quite a familiar so initially I did I did source them in Bali but the ones that were available there are not particularly good quality so I kind of quite quickly um worked on on sourcing better quality ones kind of direct from the factory so that the sequins are made in China the actual kind of loose sequins and then they're shipped over to Bali and then all the the stitching is done in Bali well it sounds like it's quite an enterprise you had to build but for a small business is that

is that quite challenging it sounds really yeah I Yeah, I mean, it happened quite slowly, I suppose, over a number of years and quite organically. And I think I very much came at it, you know, I don't come from a very kind of business-minded background. I didn't start my business as an entrepreneur. I started it as a creative person who was just kind of exploring their creativity. So I've really had to kind of

learn a lot of the business side of it as I've gone along but I think that's just the best way to learn you know there's only so much you can kind of learn from being taught or reading books and actually do it just doing something is the best way and do you think in a way the fact that it had this sort of parenthesis of it being festival wear took off a bit of pressure, even though actually the mechanisms of what you're doing is the same supply and demand as you do in any line of work? But because you've kind of got this slightly looser sort of framework and people you've met probably, some of them are very businessy, some of them not businessy at all. Yeah. It takes the pressure off a little bit maybe what it meant was that it was very what I was doing was very guided by my customers and guided by my own you know I was making the clothes that I wanted to wear I wasn't thinking oh where's you

know I wasn't doing loads of market research and thinking oh where's the gap in the market or you know what would the kind of um you know profit margin on this be or you know I wasn't I wasn't doing loads of market research and thinking oh where's the gap in the market or you know what would the kind of um you know profit margin on this be or you know I wasn't I wasn't thinking about it in that way I was thinking what do I want to wear what do people at festivals want to wear um and then just having that you know I spent the good first few years of my business doing selling at festivals all summer so you know from kind of June until beginning of September I'd be on the road you know five days a week week in and week out so I had so much contact with the people that were wearing the clothes and buying the clothes and I just learned so much from that and I think that's why as well a lot of

people now have quite a personal kind of connection with the brand is because that's how they discovered me um you know and they've met me and they've interacted with me and they've spent time in the shop at festivals. And I think that's been a really kind of valuable thing for the brand. And when you're setting all that up, alongside, do you have to have other jobs at the same time? No, I just kind of went for it. I moved back home with my parents for a few years before I could, you know, afford to pay myself anything.

So I just was really frugal and I put everything that I had I had a bit of inheritance from my grandfather and that was what I used to start the business and I just you know I was so frugal like everything you know when I was buying all the shop fittings for the festival stall I was you know going to like clearance warehouses that had, you know, secondhand shop fittings. And I was like, everything was kind of off eBay or secondhand or out of skips or, you know, I had a mannequin that came out of a skip out the back of Marks and Spencers, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I wasn't there kind of like splashing cash on, you know, getting the business off the ground. It was very much like making do with what I had and just going for it. making do with what I had um and just going for it and did your parents did they did they work when you were small yeah so I had slightly unusual

upbringing I grew up on a community there were three families living in a big quite ramshackle farmhouse together um so they both worked but they were both self-employed and they were both sort of working from home so they were we were kind of equally raised by by both of them um and in this sort of community environment there was seven adults and seven children um until I was about 10 um so yeah it was definitely like a slightly unusual so were you born into that yeah so the other couples were, they were always around from the time you were born? Yeah, well, there was, it sort of changed slightly over the years, but for the majority of my childhood, it was the same three families.

And did you, when did you first understand that that's not how everybody's doing it? I think probably when people would say to me, what's it like living on a community? And I'd sort of think, I didn't really understand that question because I didn't have anything else to compare it to. So for me, it was just not, you know, it was my normal. And that's all in the UK? Yeah. Yeah. In Swindon. Yeah. Which again is like not a place where you'd expect to find. I should laugh just because it's Swindon.

Yeah. It's not a place that you'd expect to find a community. And it was quite a contrast, I suppose. You know, I went to a very kind of conventional school in West Swindon. And I was very different to the other kids at school. And that was a struggle. That was difficult. So I feel like even though there were lots and lots of positives to the way that I grew up, that contrast was definitely quite a challenging thing at times.

But I wouldn't change it for the world because I think it it gave me a lot um and my parents still live there it's not a community anymore but my parents still live in the same house so what happened when you were 10 then why did it stop being it well then it's given me like a very kind of realistic view of communal living it it fell apart you know um and we moved away for a couple of years the the house is actually owned by the council my parents rented from the council so um the community then kind of fell apart and a couple of years later they moved back so since then um they've still kind of retained the community feel of it um but it's not strictly kind of run as a community it's just been our

family but there's always lots of people kind of coming through they run workshops and events there so things like yoga weekends and yeah because i've got in my mind quite a sort of fairly spacious place then if there were two able to be seven adults and seven kids yeah so the farmhouse itself um is is yeah it's a decent size it's not huge um and the farm grounds are like three just over three acres so it's kind of small holding sort of size. And it's quite odd. It's in the suburbs of West Swindon. So people, when they're coming for the first time,

they're kind of driving through these sort of like red brick, you know, housing suburbs and thinking, oh, we must be going the wrong way. And then they turn down our lane and it's the only street in the whole of Swindon, I think, that hasn't got streetlights. You suddenly feel like you're in the middle of the countryside. So, yeah, it's quite a special place.

Yeah, I mean, I've got lots of questions. I've got one girlfriend I know that was raised in a similar way, but it was in India. Her parents are originally from Australia, then they moved to the UK, then they went to India, where some of her siblings were born, and they had this communal living as well. But I believe it was associated with a sort of cult aspect too um but you know is when your parent you know you sort of describe as if is there like a sort of set form that's normally followed if people decide

that that's the way they want to raise their kids um no I think it can vary hugely you know some communities are based around religion um yeah some I mean we ours was actually it was quite alternative but it wasn't even that alternative you know we we used to kind of wind people up like two of my oldest best friends who um well they lived there when they were very very young but moved away when they were I think about four but we were best friends growing up i'm actually going to see one of them this afternoon um but we used to wind people up and and tell them that um when so holly and meg when their family left the community their parents didn't you know the parents didn't really know whose children were whose so they just picked a couple and uh and took them so yeah we used to kind of wind people up it was school pickup time it wasn't as kind of you know wild and and um sort of out there as people might think no i think in a lot of ways there's quite a practicality to it i don't know if you saw it but there was an article

not that long ago i can't remember one of the newspapers did one about it's a brother and sister who've both um both married uh they both live in a house that's kind of i think they work in like like lawyers and accountants you know they're quite sort of straight yeah but they have basically got this very modern looking home that has this massive communal living space and they do all their suppers in there for the kids and their weekends and all that but then they've also got sort of separate places they go yeah and the way they described it actually made you think why not more people doing that yeah yeah but I suppose if you had experience of it falling apart as well I mean it sounds like they've taken the best elements of a community and then also kept you know I suppose avoided the things that can make it

more challenging I think know, if you think it's hard enough kind of having a harmonious household with your own family, let alone other multiple families. No, that's really true. And, you know, you only really, even within that, what goes on in each couple and the dynamic and choices you're making in child raising. Exactly. Like even, you know, the conversation about child rearing, even just with the, you know, the father of your child and being on the same page about things and how you want to approach things and how you want to do things

is, you know, that's hard enough, let alone when you've got three families in the same space and, you know, one family, you know, the children are allowed white bread for their sandwiches at school and another family the children have to have brown bread it's like there's all those little things yes guys didn't even think about all those well and of course as with any bit of family life really it does come down to the details you know it's that's that's actually the fabric of what most days life is it's all the day-to-day stuff isn't it um it's not kind of your ideology that you spend most of your time arguing about is. It's all the day-to-day stuff, isn't it? It's not kind of your ideology

that you spend most of your time arguing about, is it? It's like tiny little decisions that matter or speak to you about other things. Yeah. But I should say as well, when I mentioned my friend with the cult, that's her terminology. I'm not like superimposing that.

I don't really know too much about what her parents were up to with their coming but was it quite distressing when it fell apart or did it feel quite natural I mean I think you know I was so young I think it was much more distressing for my parents um I think when you're a kid you kind of just those things sort of wash over you a bit I think um and weirdly I think me and my siblings we somehow always knew that we would go back there we had this sort of blind faith that we would move back there so you weren't you weren't in the same house at that time then no so we moved we moved out of that house for two years oh okay and then they moved back and then the rest of the rest of

the community left and my parents my family moved back in when I was 12. Oh, wow. So you had this two years where they were sort of... Just lived in a townhouse in central Swindon. Right. I'm trying to get my head around all of it now. So did they... Do you think they wanted it to keep going then?

Or do they think they were just like, this isn't going to work? I... I suppose it's hard to say. Yeah, hard to say. They were definitely keen to move back when that opportunity arose and I mean it's such an integral part of them and who they are

and actually of me I used to feel when I was younger and I still feel it actually that when I made a new friend they didn't really know me until they'd been there and seen it and kind of that then they kind of understood a bit more about who I was because it's it I'm definitely umbilically connected absolutely as a place oh it's hugely formative I mean we learned so much in the first 10 years your relationship was so

many things I think I fused in by that time yeah and I suppose it's it's tricky isn't it when you then become a parent yourself and if your childhood isn't very similar to the childhood you had even if there were aspects that childhood you found tricky you still turn up being the adult you are capable of having you know the relationship you have with your other half and you know your relationship with how you want to be a parent and it's quite hard sometimes to disentangle you know what you feel like people need to go through to be for to feel happy find contentment in the long run really yeah it'll be quite hard um did it cross your mind to to do anything like

that yourself no not really um yeah it's not just sort of naturally something that I'm drawn to um I think there are there's I mean there were lots of positives from it um one of the things being that I grew up having new people in the house all the time you know there were constantly strangers kind of you'd get home from school and there'd be you know someone random sitting at the kitchen table and so I think it meant that as I remember when I was a teenager seeing my friends like not really know how to talk to grown-ups because the only grown-ups that they had a relationship with were their parents or their teachers and often when you're a teenager those relationships can be quite difficult and I had just grown up always having other adults around that weren't my teachers or my parents

so I think I was just very used to getting along with and talking to people of all different ages yeah um and I think that was a really positive thing that came from it yeah actually I think I mean that actually kind of resonated with me a little bit and how I think the kids my kids might experience their childhood too because it's a very busy home and there's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing and uh I think for for kids being spoken to on their own terms is hugely empowering and good for your morale and your confidence and yeah it's true it's very easy actually to get out the other side of you know your entire upbringing and not really feel like adults see you in that

you know that you're like the generation gap is huge whereas actually I love the fact that like Mickey who's you know the little one he's he loves it when people come around fresh faces he's like this is great yeah yeah and there's definitely a community aspect going on here as well yeah a lot a lot of people all the time yeah and I mean do you I suppose do you have like fond memories of things like Christmas and stuff like that then of lots of people around the table yeah yeah I do um I do it's I mean Christmas is there we just I have I have really kind of fond um memories of Christmases at the farm um it's quite. It was definitely quite a magical place. And was the dressing up all things that was happening

throughout all of that time when you were really little? Yeah, and I think that was just me. That was just my kind of quirky little personality. I'd love digging through boxes of my gran's old dresses and big floppy hats and all sorts, you know, whatever I could get my hands on. Yeah, I mean, hearing you talk about it and saying, you know, when you said you were quite shy as a teenager,

it sort of reminds me a little bit about someone we were talking about earlier when we were talking about Yvonne Telford and she was saying that she was quite introverted and sometimes you end up making these really loud clothing because you're, like, trying to find a way of sort of encouraging you to feel like seen yeah and uh it can be really powerful that you know I mean it's it's an interesting one because yeah I think I am quite an introvert in lots of ways and wearing the clothes that I make I don't do it from a place of kind of wanting to be the center of attention it is that that thing of wanting to feel the empowerment of wearing that quite transformational piece of clothing that

just makes you feel you know a bit different to your to your kind of everyday self and it just gives you that boost you know that feeling of like walking around a festival wearing a sequin play suit and you just the sun's shining and like people are vibing it's like it's just the best feeling in the world it is oh it made me really miss all of that freedom and being casual I think that's the thing that I found the hardest about 2020 in terms of how the pandemic has affected sort of day to day it's casual stuff it's like you have to think through every decision and how you're going to see someone and how long you can see them for and what's what the environment has to look like and it makes you realize how much of that is is not part of your normal way of interacting people

at all yeah but those days will come back they will they will and it's gonna be i mean the vibe i'm just picturing the first time that people can go back to a festival or yeah even just you know go out to a club and be in a big crowd and dance like the energy is just going to be insane i can't wait it really is i know it's going to be crazy um so when you've been building up um rose of bloom that i feel like i need to say distinguish that the clothing um was but motherhood something that was always on the cards for you do you think is that something you always wanted to yeah I've always known that I wanted to have children um and you know it happened slightly

sooner than we were planning but actually in the grand scheme of things you know we would we were engaged already and we were sort of on that track um so yeah and it's I mean motherhood it's it's the biggest kind of paradigm shift isn't it in your life that you go through it's like this thing that you've kind of imagined and you've wanted and then it happens you're like whoa it's incredible it's all you know that moment of like holding I remember so clearly the moment of like holding my son for the first time and the strength of that love that you just feel for them. It was like, ah, this is what people talk about. Like I get it. Um, and then of course the flip side, you know, the challenges and the extent to which it changes, you know, who you are and how you do things and the adjustment to that.

And it's interesting, I think I was quite lucky in a way that, you know, I had a fairly straightforward birth. And I actually found the kind of early stages, like when he was tiny, quite easy. You know, I was quite worried about being sleep deprived and all that kind of stuff and actually I found that that whole bit quite easy um I felt like it got harder a bit further on um because I felt like I had a bit of a delayed um realization of the kind of full impact of becoming a parent and how that actually just kind of changes things so much in terms of um suddenly you know what your priorities are and for me you know how I work and how much I work um you know I think before I'd always because of kind of having built my business

up myself and done done so much myself I've I've been used to just being able to work whenever I wanted work as much as I wanted to um and it was quite a big shift suddenly having to not think like that anymore and actually we I did we did the classic thing that I think a lot of people do of massively underestimating the extent to which having a child would affect our lives and I definitely had this I don't know why on earth I thought this but I somehow thought that I could go from doing what I did in five days a week to just doing it you know when my baby was napping or you know the odd day here and there yeah and so we we didn't really plan for it in terms of actually

thinking about the logistics of how it was going to fit into our life so we ended up in a situation when Otto was about two months old um where I was getting really stressed because I was feeling like I wasn't able to keep up with my work and there were things that needed my attention and I was struggling to find the time um and it was my husband actually who sat me down one day after we kind of had a bit of a kind of family meltdown was like okay what needs to happen is I need to stop working and I need to be the primary carer so that you can work because at that point um you know I was the breadwinner really my business was was bringing in more than you know he was in the process of starting a business at that point that wasn't bringing in any money yet so he really took one for the team there and he was he was our son's primary carer for the first kind of good year or so of his life um and we still shared it a bit you

know I'd I'd he'd usually do kind of the majority of the week and then I'd I'd do a bit um and it was really hard for him you know he actually was diagnosed with postnatal depression but only when our son was about one um and it took quite a long time for him to have that diagnosis I think because you know he was kind of struggling and how you know having a difficult time but when he was looking up you know postnatal depression in dads and, you know, having a difficult time. But when he was looking up, you know, postnatal depression in dads, the symptoms are very different to postnatal depression in mums. And it would talk about things like not feeling connected to the baby or not feeling like you know how to help or, you know, it was all very much talking about the dad as the sort of

secondary carer. And so Sam was like, well, that's not's not me you know I feel really connected to to this to up to my son I feel really bonded to him I feel like I know him really well you know he's an amazing dad um and so it was only then when he was looking at actually how postnatal depression manifests in the mother that that was much more what he was going through it kind of loss of identity um loss of self-confidence in his kind of professional life um all that kind of stuff and i think alongside that the thing that i think a lot of people go through when they have a child and i know i've definitely gone through where it does hold up a bit of a mirror to the things about yourself that you that are most challenging or that are most triggering you know maybe family stuff that you haven't dealt with from your childhood it brings all that up as well so I think alongside you know it's this kind of double whammy of like

postnatal depression and him having I think also as women we're more culturally kind of prepared for the fact at some point we're going to have kids and it's still a shock and it's still a big transition but you've kind of known all along that that was going to happen if that was something that you wanted whereas for men they're not there isn't the same kind of I guess because still for the majority of people the woman is the primary carer and the man is the breadwinner um it's an even bigger kind of and it not, I feel like I don't want to kind of undermine the transition that women go through having a baby, because that's a huge shift as well. But I think it was, you know, just that extra kind of level for Sam, because we hadn't sort of, that wasn't the plan, you know, we hadn't kind of thought about it ahead of time. It was, it was kind of

a necessity at the point at which he took on that role um so yeah it was it was hard but it was even just having that diagnosis of of you know sort of realizing that it was postnatal depression was a huge shift really and almost like a relief like okay that's what's been going on yeah and then what what how how easy was it for him to find help and get out the other side of that because that's a massive thing to go through yeah so he well he was seeing a therapist for a while um and I think that helped and I think just understanding it just going oh yeah of course you know that's what's going on and then gradually just working on okay well what needs to change you know how can we you know structure our life and structure child care in a way that is giving Sam back some of

those things that he'd lost um and actually now we're at a point you know our son's two and the child care is very equal now he's actually at nursery three days a week and then we do one day a week each and Sam's back at the point of getting his business off the ground again um so yeah it was getting those kind of practical things in place to give him back um you know the time to do the things that he'd that he'd lost I mean there's yeah that's so interesting and I think it's um I suppose there's a couple of things there firstly the idea of you know probably men talking about postnatal depression is probably something that doesn't come up that much in conversation um and also the idea of it happening so long after the baby's born as well um because I suppose my probably you know really uninformed idea of postnatal depression was

that it quite often had to do as well with the hormones and the recalibration of what happens in the mother's brain after you've had given birth and something not quite working out as it should which i think does definitely can definitely have an effect yeah but obviously for men they haven't gone through the big physical changes so no i suppose i didn't really realize it would still have the same name yeah it's interesting isn't it and actually men go through a hormone change as well and I think there's been research done that when a man takes on um being a primary carer or having a very kind of involved role with the baby it it that affects the level of wit like the extent to which they have a hormone change as well i think it means that their testosterone levels drop um so that is kind of relative to

how much time they're spending with the baby which is amazing fascinating yeah oh i want to know more about all that stuff now i did i i did read something very lightweight about the effect you know, hormonal change has meant, but I didn't realise that it was so related to time. And I suppose there's so many things in terms of how things are structured that's normally so, you know, people only know, only really reference the typical,

even though so few of us go home to the typical or live the typical. Yeah. It's like there's a big gap, isn't there, between the way conversations usually work and then what you're actually normally doing yeah you haven't had a typical childhood and then the way you're raising your son at the child care is not typical but I don't have typical versions of those of those either yeah and probably most people I speak to don't yeah and I feel like for that reason there's just so much that you learn once you're in it once you're in the absolutely midst of it and I think you know I even remember when I came out the other side of labor thinking oh my god why did no one tell me how horrendous it was going to be

and and I remember talking to my auntie who is a retired midwife and she was saying well they do they sort of try to but actually you can't conceive of it until you're experiencing it and I think a lot of parenting is like that um that you can sort of understand things in theory um but then of course also there's so many variables and it's so different that so vastly different for everyone you know I think lots of people the first bit is the bit that they struggle with the most that initial kind of couple of months where you've just got this tiny being that needs so much attention and you're having sleepless nights and you know and then they kind of get into a groove whereas like for me it was the other way around

it's like the first bit I actually found quite easy, and then it was later on down the line that I sort of realised I hadn't fully like dealt with the transition from, you know, to becoming a mother. So how old did you say your baby, that was when it was two months did you say, when you felt like that? So two months, when he was two months old was the point at which Sam sort of became primary carer. So still a very little baby actually. Tiny, yeah, so so you know I'd be kind of up in the study like working on my laptop and Sam would bring him up for a feed and you know it was very when you look back you must think actually that is a lot to take on yeah babies that's you know single digit weeks old yeah yeah but I just sort of did it and I think because you know my business is like

another child really it's it's kind of my first baby I'm it's so and I have a similar relationship to it as you do to your child I think which is that it's so part of you and it's kind of integral to who you are but then there's also you you maybe also have those that same experience of the chat you know the challenge that that presents you with um and those times where you're just desperate for space away yeah but then as soon as you're away you're like you know can't kind of stop thinking about it and thinking oh actually I kind of want to get back and it's hard to delegate as well if you've been so closely linked to how everything is formed and shaped it's really hard

to let go of the reins yeah like you know the whole business is run in a very personal way like i have a really personal relationship with my suppliers my manufacturers i have a really personal relationship with a lot of my customers so it's sort of make you know i don't have these kind of like structures and systems and handbooks and you know manuals of like how everything's done so it's quite a sort of finely tuned thing really but I think actually I mean a few times I've had conversations with women like you who've set up businesses I think that sounds quite quite normal when it's something that you just have to if you don't have that level of passion for it it probably wouldn't

have really kind of kept going or would stay you know quite a small thing and is it something you still see yourself building and growing all the time is it like have you got ideas in your head of where it heads you know I've never really had a plan it's always grown very organically it's evolved very organically um I've never sat down and gone right where do I want it to be in five years time um so yeah who knows I feel like it sort of has a life of its own and I just kind of help it along and have you been back to Bali since you've had your little boy yeah so we went when he was six months old oh um yeah all three of you yeah all three of us which again was full-on you know and I think I was still at the point then of not really making that many allowances in my working life for the fact that I'd become a mother.

So, you know, we went out there and Sam was looking after our son the majority of the time and I think sort of post-covid as well that I've really had more time to think about and understand the fact that I can't just carry on working in the way that I used to you know I used to go and spend three or four months in Bali every year and that would be the time when I'd be really intensively working on developing new styles. And I just can't work like that anymore. Like it's not fair on our family. It's, you know, once our son goes to school, it's all gets more. So it's thinking about,

and then with COVID as well, I'm thinking that COVID has had a huge effect on my business. You know, obviously there's been no festivals. Not only have there been no festivals, there's been no parties, there's been no weddings, like all the occasions to which people would normally wear sequins yeah have been just kind of wiped off the calendar so in terms of sales it's had a massive effect and same thing I sort

of kept trying to like you know organize this big photo shoot and then I kept having to cancel that and it's this real realization that I can't just keep like pushing to try and do things how I've always done them because actually all the circumstances surrounding you know surrounding my life have changed yeah COVID I've had a child like every you know that that has to change and affect how I work um so I'm still I think in in the sort of process of working that all out really and thinking about well what does this look like going forwards yeah because also you know I'd say it's still in the stage of like pretty early motherhood as well I mean I think certainly when I had Sonny my oldest he's 16 now and I when I think back to the first probably like at least the first three years I think I

didn't really know how to find myself very easily in all of that actually so it sounds like you your family have coped with really well with a lot going on and growing this business and everything your husband's been through and I don't know if we've coped well but we've just kind of muddled our way through it's yeah it's that feeling at the moment like oh we sort of feel like we're just emerging from the other side a little bit of like okay it's been a really you know we we crammed a lot in in a couple of years yeah you know we got married when i was six months pregnant um we had our son um we bought a house a month after he was born which we then decided to embark on a big renovation project did you do all that as well we moved house like three

times in his first year oh my goodness you know we lived in a tent and a caravan in our garden last summer not the summer just gone the one before um but when he was like one he was like nine ten months while we were doing up the house yeah i mean it's we've had an absolutely crazy couple of years that really is you're doing everything on like fast forward yeah you should have one of those like if you have a video you know recording you all you're like spread it all up yeah yeah a friend of mine was like she she I kind of told her the this you know everything that had gone on the last couple years she's like I feel like I've just been watching the grand national like yeah it does feel like that it does feel like that but I think in a way it's funny I think lots of people somehow do that you know

they have a child and then they try and you know renovate a house you know it's that somehow you you kind of get the bit between your teeth and just try and do everything at once and then I think you come out the other side of it and go oh maybe that wasn't such a good idea um but I think you don't know until you try what you can do yeah it's true and I think also my husband and I both even though we sometimes say oh I just wish you know life was a bit less busy or that you know we had a bit more time but actually I think we both really thrive off it as well yeah I understand that we're both quite kind of driven we both have a kind of perfectionist streak like we're quite kind of we like getting stuff done and we like achieving things so I think we kind of bring it upon ourselves yeah I I totally get that and I think

as you say like there's a there's an excitement and momentum and I think particularly when you're you know you're with someone and the fundamentals are right you know you like each other you love each other you know having a baby is a happy thing you so that nucleus can weather a lot actually um I mean not not the same I didn't go back to work as quickly as you like that with my first I ended up being like that like much more speedy with the subsequent bubbles but I definitely had loads of stuff going on when I had my first and I was funny enough I was talking to someone about it yesterday and then I was like, actually, that was really stressful. Yeah, sometimes you only realise it in retrospect.

Yeah, it's just like... Because when you're in it, you just do it. You do. And I think as well, for your family, it almost sort of galvanises a lot of it. You know, it becomes how you're forged. Yeah, yeah. And then it sort of suits you. Then you feel like, well, okay, let's see what else life is.

Yeah, yeah. So much about parenting as well is just like, and life and running your own business which I guess we both do is is very reactive so you've kind of got the thing you quite like to do but then you're also bouncing off all these other unknown factors and I'm like you as well I don't never have a plan I don't really the five-year plan thing I actually find it quite unsexy I don't want to think about where I'm headed with things yeah yeah yeah who knows and I like you know I think there's also something about it's a positive thing about running a small business is that you can be quite nimble and you can be quite reactive and you can you know kind of make snap decisions about things you know

things don't have to go through a lengthy sort of decision-making process. And I think especially with the year that we've had, that's a really positive thing. Yeah, you can be quite reactive and quick, as you say. I like the word nimble for that. It's true. That's exactly what can happen. I suppose if you can think it, you just think, right, how do I make that become that?

And then you just join the dots, don't you? Yeah. I'm interested to know, how did the transition from one child to two children compare to naught to one would you say it was like a bigger transition or an easier transition no I think nothing nothing rocked my world quite like the first that was just like you know yeah all change and I think that's why because when I started doing this podcast I had a few people saying oh so don't you want to speak to some working dads

it's not about not wanting to speak to working dads it's just that I'm a working mum so I like talking to other working mums because so much of it I understand and there's a shorthand there and that's nice my husband was a bit jealous actually how come you're the one that gets invited he was like I don't mind as long as you talk about me

in really glowing terms well please tell him thank you from me actually because I think even you know and also him being open or allowing you to be open about what he's been through is yeah I did check with him actually that he was okay for me to talk about that and he was actually I feel like it's really important thing for people to know about because yeah it's still quite a sort of weird you know it's it's a taboo enough thing for women going through it let alone dads's going through it and when you described you know the you know the idea of this loss of identity all that stuff I think I think that's just like I totally get that it didn't take me to a dark place but I know that feeling I know that feeling of just going who am I and I don't feel seen and you sort of feel like the edges of you have been knocked off a bit and you feel really homogenized and it must be as well hard for you if you've tried you know if you've he's

said look i'm going to take over this you go and do your business and then you see him really struggling with something that it's a lot of guilt there yeah exactly i would yes i totally get that there's guilt involved in parenting anyway anyway oh my god from the very beginning why does no one tell you that she's not a really good selling point keep the guilt secret within about two days of finding out that I was pregnant it was a shock like we weren't planning

to get pregnant and actually we'd had a slip up and I took the morning after pill and it didn't work so I really was not expecting the pregnancy test to be positive so it was a shock and I burst into tears and it was this weird feeling because I was thinking you know I know that I've always wanted to have kids and I've not always like felt so excited about the idea of that and now this is just not how I imagined it like I'm pregnant and I didn't really want to be pregnant and and I remember talking to one of my best friends you know a day or two after I'd found

out and she was like Rosa that I was saying I feel bad that I don't feel more excited about this. Like, I feel bad that I'm upset about the fact that I'm pregnant. She was like, Rosa, that's the mother guilt already creeping in. So, yeah, the guilt is real. Oh, it really is. But actually, I think sometimes going through that bit of being like, oh, golly, I actually think probably most women feel like that for a second. Even the ones who've been trying to have a baby for a really long time.

Yeah. Because you immediately say, it's the guilt, but also, as you said as well, it throws into sharp relief. You can always think, I want to be a mum. You can also think think i'm quite naturally maternal but then this small person is coming and you think am i yeah and also you know there's the generalizations and then there's the fact that when it comes down to it you you know it's incredibly bespoke there's only you're the only person in the mum with that baby and you might be billions

people with babies you're the only one with your month with that baby. And there might be billions of people with babies, but you're the only one with your baby. That's wonderful and completely terrifying. Yeah. So yeah, it all makes sense, but it doesn't make it any smaller in your head. And I would like to think there is a podcast where your husband can speak.

I don't mind being selfish in mine, but I think, you know, all of those dynamics are out there. And I think it's really amazingly supportive that he just seemed to go, I'm going to step in there and put my plans on hold for a while. Amazing, yeah. But then it has you together represent, I mean, I think the fact that you've got the surname from your brand

and all of that is sort of really testament to what you're all growing really and it's it's very apt that it's bloom i like that yeah so how does it feel when you have that idea and there's annie and barley and you know women sewing on the sequins and then you see someone like taylor swift does that feel quite surreal oh it's totally surreal it's totally surreal. It's totally surreal. Yeah, yeah, it really is. Yeah, but then I think your clothing, it lends itself so perfectly to performance. I remember when I first wore, when I got sent,

the first one I bought was the cat suit in this flame, I think it's called. It's like a green-yellow orange. And I put it on at home and went into my teenage son's bedroom and I was like I've just bought this and he was a bit like wow now there's an outfit mum and I had a gig coming up that weekend and I thought you know what I'm just gonna wear it yeah yeah and I'm not someone that's particularly body confident um and you know in fact I've had lots of times you know in my life where I've not been having

a baby and someone has thought I might be and all that kind of stuff. So covering yourself in Lycra and sequins might not seem the obvious thing to do. But the older you get, the more brilliant that feels, actually. Just take it. This is actually me and I'm going to kind of celebrate all of that stuff. Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, I'm not a glamorous person. I don't lead a glamorous life.

You know, I live in Cornwall. You know, most of the time I'm wearing like some slightly muddy boots and, you know, got sand in the footwell of my car. And, you know, it's not. And actually, so there is something like extra surreal about that kind of contrast of then seeing, you know, people like you on stage wearing the clothes. But it's amazing.

I kind of love the sort of like collision of it of you know and also Matt you know talking to Annie and her her team in Bali and you know they were so excited when Taylor Swift wore that piece and it's just this kind of funny like collision of worlds colliding it's great I love it it is great and also I think you know your your bunting and your clothes became part of our kitchen disco in that kind of way of like going isn't life so crazy and absurd sometimes and I like the caricature of that that like my my youngest sleeps in the same room as all my clothes so every morning when you know whatever when he wakes up there's all this like sequins yeah you know catsuits and playsuits and everything and capes and what have you but why shouldn't those two things sit alongside each other?

And the fact that you can celebrate things that are glorious and joyful doesn't mean that you're actually disregarding or not sometimes dealing with really tough things privately. But it's just that you can actually... People are in 360, aren't they? All those things can be running along simultaneously. Yeah. And I bet for your friends, do you think they always thought that this is something can be running along simultaneously yeah um yeah and I

bet for your friends I mean do you think they always thought that this is something you'd end up doing does it feel like quite a natural um it's a tough one I don't know actually I have to ask them I'm not sure um I mean the the festival side of things is it was such a part of my kind of childhood and growing up and my teenage years that was a very natural kind of progression um but I never thought that I would end up running a clothing company actually when I think about it now um yeah it's funny it's that thing of like thinking back to yourself as you know I don't know 15 year old or something thinking imagine like now if my 15 year old self met my like the future Rosa just that'd be such a kind of mind-blowing thing I think definitely I mean what about pre baby Rosa you the sort of mother you thought you'd be do you think that's a really interesting

one because I think I actually was thinking about this on the train on the way here that I think you don't really know what sort of mother you're going to be until you're doing it um I think I'm I think I'm a more relaxed mother than I thought I would be I have quite sort of perfectionist tendencies in other areas of my life I'm quite like particular about things and um I sort of try and not use the word control freak because I think it's it has quite negative connotations and it seems to only be used in relation to women you know if a man had those characteristics he'd be called you know driven and focused and you know ambitious and knows how he likes things done sort of yeah you only really hear the word control freak in relation to women so yeah I think um

but actually I'm yes I'm I'm kind of more I think, than I thought I would be, which is a nice feeling. And it's just joyful, isn't it? I mean, seeing this little person who is so much a part of you, but also so much their own person. And seeing things like, I feel like there were elements of his personality that were present from so early on. You think that's got to be nature, not nurture. You know, like that's in his genes. So, yeah, I mean, it's just absolutely the most kind of wonderful adventure seeing the person that he's turning into.

Does he like a sequined cape? Yeah, and actually it's weird. He hasn't been exposed to sequins that much because of the fact that there haven't been any festivals this year they're not just hanging up in your house like they are yeah yeah actually a lot of stuff's kind of packed away in like big chests you know it's not out that much so so strangely he's he's not actually been exposed to it that much um but i mean he will be yeah he definitely will be oh well thank you so much for talking to me and i feel like because your husband has some glowing words I'd like to say to him

he sounds amazing and yeah thanks again to him for his honesty I really appreciate it and you know I'm sure he will find his forum but for now I think you've got enough on your plate with your small child and your amazing business but thank you so much

for all the sequins it's helped me so much definitely all the sequins i've got to say it's helped me so much definitely i mean you know if there's ever a time when i sort of needed to find the power of playing dress up and music i mean this year like the whole you know your love of dressing up that really is a big thing in this house too oh good just being silly and daft yeah and changing yourself a little bit it's that transformational thing, isn't it? And I think that was what was so lovely about seeing, you know, watching the kitchen disco during lockdown

and kind of people sending me these screenshots going, you know, look. Because, you know, normally over the summer I'm at the festivals and I'm getting that buzz from seeing people walking around the festivals wearing my clothes, which is just the nicest feeling. And, you know, people like come up and tell me that they've made new friends because they've seen someone else wearing Rosa Bloom and they've gone up and talked to them and then they've ended up like partying together the whole night. Like you just it's just such a lovely feeling. And that was completely missing from my life this year. And it's been a real big, big absence. from my life this year and it's been a real like big big absence so yeah seeing you wearing the stuff and then just getting such like positive vibes off people who were just you know I think the kitchen disco meant a lot to so many people that it was real yeah it was a real boost to us as well to to see that well I feel and I think it's a bit like that thing you said about seeing people wearing the same outfit for me the disco is like just it's community you know I didn't invite

invent how music makes you feel better or how putting an animal mask on is funny or any of those things but I think we just needed a bit of a lift and you're right normally is it's my day job to be honest you know going to festivals and performing and aren't we lucky that if really our imagination is the only limit to what we can put into our work that is that's a really big plus in the you know in times like this it's been so brilliant isn't it yeah and I think what you did with that was you gave people permission to do the same you know you gave people permission to go and put on that outfit that you know you don't have an occasion to wear it to now like just go and put it on in your kitchen and similar thing like at festivals you know part of the thing I

love so much about being able to sell in that physical space rather than just online is creating that space for people to come into and giving them that permission and saying you can wear that you can you can so that in that case I would say for Otto next time you're uh I don't know doing his lunch or something just put on your cats yeah I will it's time for the sequin exposure to begin. There you have it. Has that made you want a sequin catsuit? Come on. I bet it has a little bit. If you do end up buying yourself something that sees you bedecked in sequence, you won't regret it, I promise. And I realised as well that in my introduction, I forgot to say that last week I had said I was going to be talking to Carrie Ed Lloyd, which was entirely my intention.

And I have spoken to her, just so you didn't think I was totally making it up. We had some technical issues with the audio, which we've managed to rectify, but not in time to get it together to put it out this week so sorry about that but I think you would agree that Rose's chat was really lovely and informative and you know we do speak sometimes don't we about when people have partners that the primary care is in that way um dads that the primary care is but the idea of a dad having postnatal depression that way and the way they might feel quite lost in that way um dads that the primary care is but the idea of a dad having postnatal depression that way and the way they might feel quite lost in that role is something we haven't really touched on before so I did find that really interesting and on that note I do occasionally get people I say people it is always men who have accused me of running quite a sexist podcast here. And I do understand that there is a need and a want for a voice for men who are the primary carers.

I totally get that. And actually, my podcast is not even about talking to women because they are primary carers. It was more born out of the fact that i am a working mum so i'm interested in talking to other working mums but also the fact that traditionally women have been put in one role and actually it's fairly recent that we've been in others and i know the same is true for men i know men are embarking on similar journeys in terms of exploring other parts of their character and other dimensions to them that allow them to be primary carers don't worry about it kit you can hang out here that's uh my 12 year old who's walked in kit i'm just doing my recording for my podcast is there anything you want to say to anyone who

might be listening yeah um subscribe oh for goodness sake, Kate. To my YouTube channel, Project Animation and Film. That is so predictable. Thank you, darling. Anyway, what was I saying? It was pretty important stuff. Yes, I do think there's an important forum for working dads who are also the primary carers because I think that's quite a relatively new thing and something that needs exploration.

But I just feel quite selfish here, really, because I am someone who's still working it all out for myself and what it is for me to work and be a mum. And so that's why it suits me to talk to other working mums. And I'm not sure I really needed to go into all that right now. Kit, why on earth did I start talking about all this? What? I said, why did I go into all this? I do think probably chances are at the end of the podcast, most people have switched off by now.

What do you think? So it's probably just you and me and maybe one other person here. So there you have it. Anyway, next week I will be talking to Cariad and thank you to rosa and thank you also to rosa's husband for allowing her to be candid about what he's experienced because i think it's really important to hear about that and i'm really grateful and i think that's probably

me for this week and i hope you are well i hope the sun continues to shine this week i will see you next week for another chit chat sorry i said yeet yeet what does that mean you don't know what yeet means no what does it mean sorry to throw something well if an object yeah okay why would i say yeet kid oh never mind all right lots of love see you soon Thank you.