Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 28: Rebecca Vincent

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

I have been following tattoo artist Rebecca Vincent on instagram since I saw a beautiful tattoo which she did for one of my earlier SP interviewees, Sali Hughes. Rebecca's style is usually botanical-inspired pure black ink. She reinvented herself as a tattoo artist when she felt her previous job as a pub landlady didn't fit well with becoming a mum. Her child is now ten and has recently started identifying as non-binary - a decision which Rebecca and husband Lee have welcomed and embraced. She's a lovely woman with a particularly gentle and kind aura for someone who can inflict so much pain - and I'm seriously considering having a second tattoo now! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Good day to you, podcats. How are you? I am speaking to you with a very well-slept voice today. Do I sound different? Maybe a little bit different? I had a really good, solid eight-hour sleep just now. Why, you may ask yourself. It is because I'm not home, I tell you. I speak to you from Manchester.

It's so bizarre. I've had a night away for work. Yesterday when I left the house, I felt terrible leaving this mall. And Richard, I've been home, you know, obviously every night with them. And this is the first night I've had away from my family for months and months and months. But I have to say, and they won't hear this, that waking up after a good sleep has reduced that anguish I felt at leaving them to a dim and distant memory and now I'm just thinking this bed is comfy and it was nice to have proper blackout curtains and silence um don't worry I will be back tonight I go back home I'm up here filming part something for Alan Carr's epic game show I'm not a contestant I'm someone that's assisting in the show itself you'll see what I mean when it's on telly I don't know if I'm allowed to speak about it don't tell

anyone I told you even what I told you I came up yesterday to film and I'm back home tonight and I don't get in till about one o'clock in the morning maybe 1 30 because it's a long journey home and I don't finish till late up here so don't worry I'll be back to that sort of slightly sleep deprived state that I usually inhabit by this time tomorrow what else can I tell you um we've got our final kitchen disco this Friday I've been planning the playlist I say this this Friday, I mean tomorrow. I'm talking to you from way back in the past. It's Thursday where I am. And I've been planning what songs to do. I've asked people online to help me with what songs they want, because it was actually really hard to set up a poll for all my songs so people could vote, but also for people to suggest covers. So this morning, I've got nothing on I'm not working

today till this afternoon and I've decided my task is to sit down and write out all the songs people have said and then tally them up so wish me luck with that and with the covers I think I know what I'm gonna do it's our ever, potentially, given that there'll be no more lockdowns, potentially. So this is number 20 and I want it to be a good one. What else can I tell you? I had no spinning plates podcast go out on Monday. Maybe you noticed. Did you notice? It's because it was a bank holiday and also because I had my first live Radio 2 show. I've done a couple of Radio 2 shows last year. They were all pre-records from home.

And this was the first time I was live in the studio. And they let me drive the desk, which was cool. So I was doing my own fader for when I spoke. And I actually really enjoyed it. So if you listened in, thank you. And I loved all the messages and everything. So that's been my week. That's, broadly speaking, my week.

Oh, I've left out something super important. It's my birthday on Saturday. Sorry, I should probably preface oh I've left out something super important it's my birthday on Saturday sorry I should probably preface that I left out something super important it was Richard's birthday on Tuesday but it's my birthday on Saturday April 10th I know you all know that and don't worry if you're hearing this now and thinking oh I missed it you can still wish me a happy birthday I accept happy birthday messages up to two weeks post my birthday with no judgment at all. So don't worry, it's still time. Anyway, this week's guest is such a lovely woman, Rebecca Vincent. So I've been following tattooist Rebecca for what feels like a couple of years now, I think. She tattooed a beautiful tattoo on Sally Hughes a couple of years ago and so I started following Rebecca after that because I'm always a bit fascinated with tattoos and I've sort of toyed with the idea of a second one I have one tattoo a heart that says family on my right arm

but I used to think quite long and hard about having a second one and Rebecca's designs were the sort of thing I was thinking of getting she does these beautiful black and white botanicals primarily. So leaves, flowers, insects, bees, they are beautiful, really detailed, really clear, quite big, bold designs. I love them. And I realised that she had a child, which immediately makes me think, I could speak to her for my podcast and I messaged her and she got back to me straight away and so we met for the first time uh we'd we'd never met before and I'd never really spoken to her direct before just liked a lot of her posts but it turned out we had a couple of mutual friends which was really sweet and an unexpected surprise and she was completely lovely she was a bartender um not a bartender a bar she ran a bar a bar manager until she was in her mid-20s

fetish and baby yeah yeah life change new job and she speaks beautifully about her child's decision to be non-binary as well it was a very recent thing when we spoke i think her child had only been non-binary for a couple of weeks so we do make a couple of mistakes but I loved the fact that Rebecca was so open about talking about it and thank you as well to her to her child as well for that um that candid approach but also I really appreciated the fact that Rebecca was saying you know if the intention is is there to support and to love then everybody is accepting the fact that you know those pronouns we've been doing them for a long time it takes a little while to get out of that habit but uh she's you know she obviously has a very very loving supportive

household with her husband and a 10 year old and um yeah i think it's a really good message for us all and this extra sleep has made me talk to you for the longest I think I've ever spoken at the beginning of any of my podcasts. So you should probably be grateful that I don't normally get this much sleep. Just enjoy the podcast. It's nice to be back.

I have this episode and then another couple and then there's the end of series three. I'm ready to start and talk to people for series four. Happy days. Thanks for being here with me. And see you on the other side well i guess we should probably i mean it's funny because when i first started doing the podcast stuff it was all the beginning of lockdown and i thought i don't really want to have a podcast we

talk loads about lockdown but now that's been going on a year it would kind of be odd to not mention it particularly it must have affected your day job pretty significantly 100 yeah it was crazy crazy we were like the well i kind of took myself out the week before lockdown actually because i kind of saw that it was coming but because we're in such close contact it's yeah it's inevitable that it was going to be you know not allowed so what does a tattoo artist do when they can't tattoo the client so your husband and child covered now do you know what no I haven't honestly like I do you know what I need to get him in before I actually start again to do a practice tattoo because it's gonna be so the idea of that actually really amused me sorry I haven't got anyone else to tattoo hold still

sorry child sit down here it's my eyelid they really don't like that i don't think they're gonna get any you know really no because it's not cool when your parents are tattooed it really isn't is it no like and lee and i are very tattooed i mean not that we're in competition but if we were i am actually more tattooed really yeah so i can only see like sort of a little bit neck and a little bit i got my yeah but you're pretty covered yeah i've got a kneecap left which will stay undone because it's so painful it's like the most painful place it's very thin isn't it on the bone I actually don't like getting tattooed anymore

because I had this conversation with a guy at the shop this morning when you book in for a tattoo it's really exciting and you're paying for it and stuff but when it's your job and you can literally get tattooed by your friends whenever it's just the novelty

no it's gone the novelty's gone and I'm older now and tattooed by your friends whenever it's just the novelty no it's gone the novelty's gone and I'm older now and I'm like so that kneecap is just staying that's beautiful got a kneecap and a bum cheek left and they're both gonna stay it's a memory of my youth untatoed just to reassure your mum there's a little bit left from the beginning I tattoo her though really yeah she's so supportive like and she doesn't she looks like a beautiful like 60 65 year old woman and yeah she let me tattoo her arm as well wow I know that's very cool of her I like that but also a little bit of pressure on you I would have thought oh well I mean my sister my husband and my mum were kind of my first proper customers and there's

some awful now it's fine because it's like nine ten years in but I look back on that and I'm like oh my god I need to fix it well that's quite a funny one isn't it because I guess when you get started um yeah your work is has a permanence even if you end up evolving from that point oh my god totally it's on a family member totally they must love you very much yes they do they love me very much no most of my mum's bad ones I did her on her back anyway so she can't see looks great mum just don't just don't wear any low cut tops you're fine you're fine um when did you start tattooing was this all pre or before like before or after you had your baby ah so when um when I had uh B I was a pub landlady.

And actually having them and having that job made me realise I couldn't really juggle the two. It's just, you know, we used to live above the pub. And my sister moved in with us when she was 15, 16. So it was just like a party, chaotic, really fun. So this was you and your partner and your sister all living together yeah and then a baby on the way as well yeah poorly i was like i just really want i'm really close to my sister like where there's 10 years between us and um i was the first one to hold her she was born at home like we're just like best friends and um she was having a really

shit time sorry okay so i realized that i was like she's having a really shit time. Sorry. Okay, so I realised that. I was like, don't worry. She was having a really rubbish time and we were really close, so she moved in with us. And Lee, we'd only kind of just got together and Lee was like, I remember him saying like, I don't care if she moves in, I just want to be with you.

And if that means, and then he really regretted that because she was a 16 year old that moved in and it was, yeah. I mean, they're very close now. They're very much like a brother and sister relationship. But then I got pregnant and we decided to find a house.

And I went down to part-time. And then obviously just, you know, it's tiring when you have a baby. And then also kind of doing unsociable hours. And so I was thinking, right, okay, what do I want to do? And our friend Lola had come to visit us, to visit me with Bea. Because I'd already had tattoos. She was like, just become a tattoo artist. And I was like, no, you can't.

You can't just become a tattoo artist. That's just not how it works. But the more I thought about it, it kind of started making sense. I actually failed my A-level art when I was at college. And I hadn't drawn a thing between that point and actually having actually um after having b and i had this kind of thing where i was just like i just need to create something i was like you know my husband's a musician i i don't i can't do anything like that and so i just started drawing again and i just really fell in love with it and i was kind of drawing how i used to draw and it just shows you

that you know you can't fail art like that's such a ridiculous sentence it's just ridiculous and so I started drawing loads every time they would nap I'd get my pen out and draw and then completely coincidentally this is in Leeds up the road um a studio opened up and I just went in and was just like I don't know I had this like bravado of like new mum just like give me a job and they did and then and then I became a tattoo artist wow I love what you said about you can't fail art I mean that's such a a simple thing to say but when you say it you think of course it sort of slaps you in the face a little bit it's subjective isn't it it's completely subjective and I think sometimes as well

the creative arts when they're put into an exam format can really suck the joy out a little bit actually because so much of it is about your emotional expression totally so having to make it fit and exact of what someone else wants I can see that there's a place for that yeah definitely don't get me wrong but they almost need to sort of parenthesis it slightly separately so that you don't lose your faith in your ability to still be able to create stuff 100% and I think if I'd gone specifically to an art school that that I would have been encouraged because my sister actually um I always say this to people when I can she graduated Chelsea like last not last year the year before and she you know she didn't have

any GCSEs didn't have any A-levels and she just kind of found her I think she's amazing it's so interesting because we're both in creative jobs but but our styles and what we're into are just so different. And she was just really encouraged at Leeds College of Art just to explore what she wants to do. And it was really like, I was not envious because that seems too much of a harsh word, but I was really like, wow, I wish I'd gone down that route, but then maybe I wouldn't have found tattooing. So it's like chaos theory, isn't it kind of leads you to where you are now yeah and also it's sometimes easier to be impressed with when you hear other people's stories but for her seeing you um have your baby stop the job you're in and then walk into a tattoo

place saying I can do this it's pretty inspiring too so also she used my uh my um uh portfolio for the apprentice job to go to leeds college of art and was like oh these are mine so they let her in and then she was like right i don't actually draw i'm going to do like loads of installation work and i love that so much like the goal of it is amazing that really is so how old was your little one when you went into the tattoo parlor and started doing that so they would have been about three how old are they no maybe they were two i was 28 when i decided that I wanted to start tattooing and I'm 37 at night so they would have you became a mum at about 25 26 yes yes and actually having them there with me from the start was like um it didn't change my life at all it was just the next phase and we were all kind of

there together so it's you know because it's I'd imagine changing careers as a new mum or having a career they're becoming a mum and then trying to fit that around that it's really hard for for mothers in that respect um it was really difficult I was really fortunate the fact that I decided to do it after they were here yes you never knew any other way to do it no no and then I got offered a job in London nine months after I was tattooing. And then we've just been here since, which is exciting. Why is it tattooing rather than just any other kind of art? You know, it could have been making prints or illustrations.

But do you know what? I do that within the tattoo job as well. I think that's so, you know, you asked, like, what do I do? What do you do in a pandemic when you're a tattoo artist? And I started, I've got a patron as well so I send out prints every month I started doing like online drawing classes as well yeah I think about that which was so nice during the first lockdown it was really beautiful little community and then I had this idea of getting other guest tattoo artists to host lessons and

through that met Jade Clark who is she's 10 years younger than me no she's 12 years younger than me um and she just has this passion and fire and she's just turned it into this beautiful like worldwide crazy art house wonderfulness which has just been great um so that's kind of kept both of us busy this is like a new community and it's called the art house isn't it? Art House Collective, yeah. Art House Collective. Free art classes every week, different types of artists, all ages,

and it has just turned into this, like, beautiful, because we wanted to kind of, initially, I was doing it to kind of get people together, and then mental health is something that's really important to both Jade and I, and it was kind of combating loneliness, especially in this time. And we have, I mean, we had 350 people on Sunday join the class. And it's all over the world.

And they've all made friends with each other on social media. And they all encourage each other. It's really, really beautiful. That is. And I think there's a lot of really positive things like that that have come out of the last 12 months. And I think I've definitely felt like the sort of connections I've made with people from all around the place and I think when I used to use social media I didn't necessarily engage that much with responses so I put something out there people put something in

the comments and I'd probably sort of just think I don't think I'm supposed to acknowledge I've seen this yeah pretend you haven't yeah but I think now I've actually there's loads of people I follow now that I didn't know before and I love now I've actually there's loads of people I follow now that I didn't know before and I love that community and anyone that's sort of spreading a bit of joy that's creating those online communities that's creating stuff I'm a bit obsessed with it already I think it's amazing and and you know I'm probably wrong in this but the majority of people I've seen doing this are you know women or in the queer community and they're really kind of putting their their own skills out there and wanting to create that space as well and I agree like I

hadn't really you know I'm really bad when it comes to social media like I just post and that'd be it but now like I've doing that engaging thing because you just want to talk to people you miss people you miss that interaction and it means so much to everybody it means so much to me you know seeing something so positive as well it's really it's really beautiful but I saw loads of like um loads of people like how to make cocktails or how to cook this or parenting tips or you know it's literally everything there's a there's a chap I met weirdly through um adopting our dogs um it's a long story but we kind of somehow our lives came together that we had a brother and sister and he um is a gardener I think he's worked like gardeners question time

and stuff but through that he's been making videos on like how to like look after your gardens how to do like vegetable patches and people love it because they're at home more it's great yeah and it's also quite gentle and it's inclusive um and actually what we're talking about before with the the art thing I think I don't know if you watched any of that uh Grace and Perry's Art Club but I really loved that because it was all about saying that go back to what it is that just resonates in you and you make something just for the pure joy of making something that didn't exist before um and I think that's just been a really simple thing that can just for a second elevate you out of where you are or shift the perspective or the narrative of what's going on,

which is something, a life skill you can take with you for whatever's going on. 100%. Obviously, the uniqueness is we're all going through something very, you know, some of the themes are pretty universal, aren't they? Definitely, and none of us have experienced this before, which is something you can take a little bit of quiet comfort in, that you're kind of like, you're all in this together. But also, you said about just creating just creating like through the art house we've

had a couple of people change their careers completely and gone into a creative industry afterwards and they wouldn't have thought to do that if they hadn't if this hadn't have happened I'm just trying to take positives out of a really I'm not taking away from a really difficult year but it's I think it's important to kind of take positives out of it yeah yeah no absolutely I think that's yeah I don't think anyone is thumbs up for pandemics but I do think um I do think yeah that it's it's nice to acknowledge the nice things that come out of it and I was talking to a friend yesterday just saying like little acts of kindness little small things they they're really magnified to me at the moment so all those little things I've just thought they mean much more they can

kind of even tiny little interactions you're like okay I really does it like I get the beauty of that now definitely and I think we took so much for granted I did everybody did because we were just so busy busy busy and I think you're right like you know we said earlier like the sun shining and the birds singing or whatever it's just like it makes me so much happier because you notice the season change a bit more and we need this bit of sun yes and I think you know just saying hello to somebody walking past on the street or whatever, I think we need to kind of connect with each other. And I think we are. Even here, I'm really good friends with my downstairs neighbours.

I love them so much. But next door, I'd said hello to a little bit, but not really. And now, this whole bit, we're all talking to each other, and we've all lived next to each other for years. And I don't think that would have happened otherwise. And that know it's we're all talking to each other and we've all lived next to each other for years and I don't think that would have happened otherwise and that's not because we're being rude it's just because we're just busy you know yeah no I know I know um do you think in the the sort of tattoo community there was already a lot of that you know that if you were out and about and people have got tattoos you think it does sometimes spark a bit

of a conversation between people oh definitely I think especially myself and I know friends and colleagues if you see a tattoo by somebody you know that's done that you're like oh my gosh did so and so do that and it's like I mean I'm a northerner so I love a chat and any excuse to kind of bring the chat to London and Londoners sometimes I don't like it but you know if I see a tattoo on somebody I'm like excuse me and then yeah that's fine I never even thought of the fact you might recognise who's actually done the tattoo. Yeah. Well, you've got a very distinctive style. I think your stuff is absolutely beautiful.

So you deal mainly, I've only seen you doing black and white. Is that right? Do you do colour? No, no, no, I don't. It's something that I only kind of, I started doing and it just kind of carried on that way. Don't get me wrong. One day maybe I'll kind of, kind of move into that field but I for me it has to be a natural progression I have actually been saying this for about six years

I'm gonna maybe I'll do a color tattoo I'm probably not but yeah I really love like like music for me so like botanical museum artwork like oh my god I love that so much so that's kind of definitely where I get most of my influence from. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's very botanical. It's lots of plants and bees and birds and roses. It's absolutely beautiful. I think it's very distinctive. I definitely think I would recognise your work if I saw it in someone else. Thank you so much. But I still want to know why is that tattooing resonated with you?

So you said you had some before you got into it for other people. Yes, I remember seeing a photograph. Oh gosh, I must have been about 19 and I saw a photograph of a woman and she was completely covered in tattoos I remember thinking like that was so brave and so amazing and wow I would never ever be able to kind of have the kind of dare to do something like that and I think now I'm actually probably more tattooed than that person but it's something that I've always loved and um when I was younger and still now obviously was into like rock music or heavier music and it was very popular

amongst those communities and then so I got a couple I wish I could go back to myself when I get my first tattoo and be like this is what you're going to do because even just watching it being done like it's now it makes so much sense to me but when you watch it like you know it's it's so bizarre. Yeah. And then, sorry, what was the question? Just why tattooing? Oh, why tattooing? It resonated with you so much.

Well, yeah. So then it was kind of like an expression of yourself. Like I had quite low self, very low, I say quite, I had very low self-esteem when I was a teenager. And just getting one tattoo, I remember getting this one on my wrist here and there was nothing else around it and just feeling like so much more confident and I see that in the people I tattoo as well no matter gender or age you don't know people's insecurities and sometimes people get something like just if they don't like their arms or their leg whatever and just putting decorating it just makes you feel better about

yourself and that's definitely something that I got when I was getting tattoos I just felt great I know it's like a like maybe a vanity thing perhaps but it just felt wonderful yeah well it's interesting you said because when I was growing up my um my dad was always very down on tattoos it's very oh my dad made it so easy to rebel because he just wore all the things he didn't like he'd be like no smoking no tattoos so you know obviously as a teenager I would smoke of course and then when I was old I went and got tattooed but um but he was always like oh people with tattoos it just says you know that there's something about them they'd you know I suppose it does link to the low self-esteem you know there's something about an insecurity there but actually it's funny because I was thinking about

that on the way to see you and I thought yeah, yeah, but what he didn't understand, or certainly for me, is that by getting one, I felt empowered. And I love tattoos on other people. I love them. I've got loads of friends who've got beautiful tattoos. And I think I love the expression of it. So when someone comes to you and they've got an idea, if you think it's maybe not something that is quite right but you've got an idea how easy is it to sort of have that conversation oh my god evolving it so easy it's like this it's like this chat you know i mean i would be so bruised i would never tattoo

something that i thought would not suit the person because this is the thing like as amazing as tattoos are they are forever so you have to you have to have that in your head you know yes they're so much more acceptable now and which is wonderful because you can literally get whatever art style you like but I feel like I felt at a time there was a period of a time a few years ago when it was like a lot of like celebrity reality tv styles are getting all these tattoos tattoos tattoos and then somebody was like oh if I don't like it I'll just laser it off and I remember seeing that on the front cover of a magazine and I was just like no it's not a haircut it's not a top it's forever and yeah I and also you said as well like I got them at first for like self-esteem but obviously people get them as well to like to completely express

themselves and like they just love them but yeah um I would never tattoo anything on somebody that I didn't think would work for them but But I'm like, just like this. I'm just, you know. And I think because I have a particular style, nine times out of ten when people contact me, it's for something that's related to what I'm doing. So I very rarely have to say, no. If anything, I have to encourage people to go a bit bigger

because people want like really small things because they're scared. But then I'm like, you shouldn't do that that you should get something that you want to get for yourself yeah and yeah that's it that's a boring tattoo conversation no no but that's true because when I went to have um I've only got one but it's quite it's quite big and when I went to get it done I thought it was going to be smaller and also more detail have more stuff going on and the guy who did it he's a guy called Tintin, he's a French guy, and he got very, very stoned. I don't do that.

It was a slightly unusual setup. And he said, if you do your design, people will just look at you and be like, what is that on her arm? You know, saying big and bold and clear. And I think it was really good advice and actually

on the way here claire is sitting quietly now she said that she's gonna get a tattoo she's gonna get a money spider tattoo and i was like that's so small you should be like i think you've got something you've got smudge well i will do that for you also you've got this i think i've got the skillset to get a money spider just have it on your face just have it down there six legs right end of your nose

oh my god that has to happen is it true you can't tattoo normally above the neck and below the wrist is that like a legal thing

no do you know what I was on I was on the Jeremy Vine show two years ago talking about tattoos and there was this doctor on there as well and i think she was there to kind of like be the other person to kind of say i don't like tattoos she definitely didn't like tattoos

and she was saying it's illegal to get your face done in this and i don't know where people have got that some countries i think it is but here it's not however do not get your face and hands and visible tattoos until you are completely secure in your life and know what you're doing for work and also i would never do that on somebody that didn't have lots of other tattoos as well because i that's just i'm like a mother for all of my clients i'm like no no you're not getting it there no yeah no and what do you think about when people have got tattoos but they they still, they think their parents don't know, but they're maybe like grown-ups?

Because I've got friends like that in their mid-40s who are like, my mum and dad don't know. I'm sure they know. Oh, no, no, I have customers, like proper older-than-me customers that do that. Even some tattoo artists won't get visible tattoos, out of respect for their family members. I guess it can be quite a,

it can stir up emotions in people but i don't really understand i mean now actually as you say it's so much more oh that's what i was going to say about your dad actually because obviously it's a generational thing as well like only only in recent years are you seeing them everywhere so i guess for him it was like and it was for my dad originally as well he was like no no no no no yeah no no but then you know it's it's changing it's an art I definitely see it as an art form. Oh, it is. And actually, it's funny,

because you said earlier about your mum having tattoos, and I sort of forgot to think about the fact that the thing that always sowed the seed in me was actually my mum having one. When I was seven, six or seven, she was a single mother with me for about three years. And she came home one day with a bit of clean film on her on her shoulder and she'd had a hummingbird tattooed on her on her shoulder and um I remember

we had a bath together that night I remember how she was really excited about this tattoo and I liked the sort of selfishness of it really like she did it just for herself just because she was at this point in her life where she was single she'd been with my dad since she was 16 so you know it's quite significant that she was in this you know now on her own and um yeah I think in my head I was like right as soon as as soon as I can that's what I'm gonna do yeah same for me so my mum was actually the first person in the family to get a tattoo she divorced our dad and then she got a tribal heart tramp stamp okay actually no I don't like saying tramp stamp it was just at the bottom of her bottom of her back no but that is a place like that yeah yeah and it's just it is

hideous and it's still there and there's nothing I can do with it because it's so big and bold so when I first started getting tattooed she was like oh I don't like it I'm like mother you cannot say anything you started this but I feel like but I love that though like it was for her do you know what I mean I think you know leaving a relationship that you've been in for so long and kind of losing yourself within that relationship maybe there's a thing yeah like a bit of a maybe there's a pattern then with women when they've got relationships going right yeah but I think it's very cool I think as well it's I Richard said a nice thing to me once about my tattoo because he was saying because I'm like they basically like places like Daily Mail cannot

stand my tattoo if I've ever got a picture you see it they're just like that's the best thing I've ever seen in my life and um and he said you know the thing about tattoos is it tells people that maybe they don't know everything about you and I thought that's really I like that actually there's a sort of secret story to it sometimes that I really like that. That's gorgeous. Actually, the Daily Mail didn't like my tattoo of Stephen Fry. I don't know if you saw all that. So I have a tattoo of Stephen Fry on my, and I'll show you in a sec. And about, when was it?

It was two years ago. I just did a tweet being like, can someone please tell Stephen Fry, at Stephen Fry, that I've had him tattooed on me for five years. He sees it. He retweets it. So I'm like, I remember I was cashing my money in the bank and I was like and the woman was like what's wrong I was like Stephen Fry she had no idea what was going on about and then I was like oh my gosh and I like messaged my husband like Stephen Fry has recognized me and he said something really sweet saying like I will endeavor never to say anything bad to make you want me to want you to remove it oh but then like radio one got hold of it and then like the metro got hold of it then the sun got hold of it and then the

daily mail got hold of it and the comment section under that was quite something which I just thought you know what I don't really care but then from that actually I got to meet him live on the one show like two days like it was a real it was a whirlwind 48 hours and now he has you tattooed on he's actually on his face has my face like oh no he didn't offer that actually that's really rude of him maybe maybe I'll tweet him again and see if I get him to do that um I didn't know you had Stephen Fry have you got any other notable people or is it mainly more just no it's just steven i love him so much he's such a natural treasure well i grew up with like do you remember who signs it anyway and he was always so good at that and then black adder goes forth like i love him well actually and that brings full circle back to the mental health aspects actually because he works for mind he does loads of stuff for mind the charity all

about mental yeah mental health. So that's actually a really nice person. It works on lots of levels. Oh, and actually the Harry Potter thing, and you've made loads of Harry Potter Lego, I can see. And he does that too. Yes, yes. I listen to Stephen Fry, basically.

Oh, don't they? Maybe I'll pass or cross again. Actually, another Stephen Fry, my little brother jackson once played his son in uh the film wild um yeah i was very jealous about it at the time because when i was growing up i really wanted to act and i kept saying to my mom i want an agent and she finally capitulated when i was at exactly the right age to be completely uncastable in most things oh my god very tall sort of 13, 14-year-old,

so I couldn't play cute little kid and I couldn't play, like, the next level up. So Jack, who'd gone along to the casting with me for the agent, got taken on and then did loads of work. He had these little ringlets and he was just constantly working. He was about, sorry, let me think, he must have been only about five or six. And he was really cute and, yeah,

he had to do lots of things where he was in period costume going, Mama or Papa. And then it was like... Yeah, he ended up working with loads of people. It was all... Were you happy when you see him? You were just like...

No, it was really annoying. No, no. He was so happy for you. Yeah, brilliant. How much stuff did he do? That's brilliant. Oh, tons. He did Wild with Stephen Fry.

He did The Tenant of Wildfeld Hall with Tara Fitzgerald. He did Wild with Stephen Fry. He did The Tenant of Wildfeld Hall with Tara Fitzgerald. He did something called The Village Affair with Akira Knightley. Amazing. He did another film with Christian Stater and Jared E.

He was just like constantly working. Oh my God. He's like constantly working. So happy for you. That worked out well. Thanks, Mum. You're taking me seriously

with the eight-inch request. Back to you. back to you um so the pub landlady thing how unusual is it to be i don't know much about the world of um being a pub landlady how unusual is it to be a pub landlady by the time you're in your mid-20s i would have thought that's pretty young really young um I don't know it just felt so so this is in Rotherham or no this is in Leeds so I was I was um running live music at a venue in Sheffield was actually where I met my husband and then because it was just really like it was like it would close at 5am sometimes this bar it was a hotel and it was fun but it was very party and I was just getting a bit like I'm just no no more. And this pub kind of became available in Leeds

and that's where my husband lived. So we moved there and he was on tour all the time and we had it for free. So at first it just seemed this like perfect opportunity. But it's really hard work. You know, you live there. I mean, open Christmas day, like all of these things, you're on call all the time.

But I think it's a really great job to do as well like not everyone can do it it's unsociable hours it's not really great pay but and it's hard work but I've got friends from 20 years from working in the bar industry it attracts a certain type of person but yeah it wasn't yeah it's not it's not a common job I mean it might have changed now god it was like how long has it been now like 10 years since I've done it but it wasn't like common for a 25 year 24 year old woman to be running a pub no and you said i said to be quite tough with getting people out on time and that kind of thing was i tough my husband would literally because he'd drink at the bars sometimes just be like do you hate everybody that comes through the door but i have to be like game face and being tattooed when stag parties would

come in and being pregnant and tattooed when stag parties would come in and being pregnant and tattooed when stag parties would come in oh yeah i was yeah yeah i was i had a bit of grit about me yes and how did you find that being being pregnant in that situation i'm really really awful actually i've had i had oh just awful awful stuff i don't wear bras i've never worn bras and that was like a i'd had like pint glasses thrown on my top so they could oh no really bad lifted up top reaching over the bar to touch my pregnant stomach and stuff yeah so you have to have a little well not a lot you have to be a lot like what made you think this was an unsuitable environment i just don't know don't get me wrong like it was and you know it's stag parties stag parties would just be the worst just the absolute worst yeah and there'd always be like

one guy at the end just being like I'm so sorry like it's like their friend from university that doesn't know the rest of the lot it was just horrible yeah uh yes so it was fun but it was hard and is there any skill set you think that you did take on from that into tattooing 100% people just talking to anybody talking to everybody it's a really social both of them are very sociable jobs and you both you both of them you meet unusual characters as well and how are there many is it quite sort of um equal amount of male and female tattoo artists oh I'd say it's I'd say when I first started there were not as many women but now there are definitely more women, definitely more women now. In my circle, actually.

Like, I think, yeah. Yeah. And I was wondering as well, is there like a standard thing people say as like a joke thing when they find out that that's what you do for a living? Oh, yes. So I'll go, I'm a tattooist. They're like, oh, you can't tell because I have lots of tattoos. And I have to go like, ah. Because I don't want to be rude because I think they're being lovely but it's just yeah how many have you got oh I had that this morning actually literally this morning just I just lie every time because I don't know it's like just the one yeah they've all joined up what do you mean

it's not real it's a bodysuit and did you always want to have kids? Did you always picture yourself? No, no, no, no. I never wanted kids. Oh, this is going to turn into a love story. And then I met my husband and within three months we were living together

and then two months after that we were trying for a baby and this is when we knew Dom as well. So yeah, it was... And then when we got pregnant, all of our friends were like, what are you doing? So you'd only been going out for like six months when you were telling people you're having a baby we tried for a little bit yeah so maybe it was a bit long no god yeah no it's six months

it was um but obviously it's you know worked out perfectly i mean i don't i don't recommend young couples to do that just to see if it works because that's so stupid but it did work it was brilliant well it's actually not dissimilar to me and my husband they said that you actually you know made the decision it wasn't a surprise yeah exactly um but no I've actually got quite a lot of examples of that working out pretty well um my mum and my stepdad as well they'd only been together for three months when they found out they're having my brother I think when you know you know I know it's such a cliche thing to say but it's it's so true like and what's so awesome is that it feels like it's always been the three of us yeah because Lee and I were together for such a short time um before they came now it's like it's just the three of us and both my

husband and I come from broken homes so we were having this conversation with me the other day when we're saying like because I'll always be having a little kiss and a little cuddle and they'll be like oh for god's sake and I was like no like honestly trust me this is much better than the other the other thing of like not not seeing that but it's it's a brand new experience for my husband and I as well because we've not we didn't grow up in you know a together unit. And so we're all in it like, it's great, isn't it?

I mean, it's new for all three of us. Yeah, well, that resonates with me as well. My parents separated when I was four, so I didn't have that unit for a lot of my childhood. And I do think there's lots about how I raised my kids that's very similar to my childhood, but that is one massively different factor. Loads of siblings for them and you know mum and dad together just are you an own child I'm an only child for my mum and dad yeah yeah and then my brother was born when I was eight okay and like you with your sister I was absolutely obsessed with him like obsessed it's

that perfect age gap isn't it because they're not a threat to you they're not like you're not stealing mum and dad's attention and you can be totally there exactly so you're the big sister and yeah so it's just the two of you just you and your sister yeah yeah and also you're you know it means you've got like a baby on the hip from the age of about 100 and really interesting because uh hannah was 17 when b was born so they kind of start hannah started being with b how i was with hannah and it was like amazing but like because our mom and dad i mean our mom and dad were together a long time when they shouldn't have been um when they were going through the divorce i'd be like i'm taking her younger than

my child is now i would take hannah to like download festival just for the weekend and they'd be like right see you later i was 18 like who the heck like but it was wonderful do you know what i mean and like and when i would like dj and put on I'd get Hannah to come with me and stuff and she'd be like oh you're so cool and now she's just far cooler than me far cooler than me now well the battle has to be passed on I know it's just like oh damn but it's funny that it seemed to result in a similar thing of you kind of just getting on with things and you know it sounds like you know you already had the responsibility of a job and being independent and all that yeah sooner than maybe some other yeah and I don't know if that's exactly and I don't know if that's necessarily a positive thing

as well because you know a lot of there's a lot of trauma that comes with being in a family that's quite dysfunctional as I'm sure many people know and I think you it just kind of my sister and I talk about every time we have a conversation it it always comes back to this. It's quite interesting actually, because it's just something we really feel passionate about. Like how actually I was, I had to grow up quite quickly, um, really quickly. Um, so our dad was an alcoholic and it was, it was, you know, it wasn't fine, but it was just something that I would kind of be very aware. I didn't want Hannah to kind of be around it. So I would just kind of take that role on straight away but you know it's kind of turned me into a very determined woman today and my daughter I'm sorry my child will never you know experience

that yeah yeah everything's a lesson I literally I bumped into somebody I knew on the on the streets today we're talking about this like kind of like the traumas of like your own childhood and how you can just take that and turn it into a positive because you just your kids will never experience that and what is it about your mum do you think that's made you and your sister so creative so my mum is a painter as well I don't know it's really interesting artist well amateur do you know I mean like she would just she went back to after Hannah was born she went she went to university and did a degree and we were just around that. It's so, it's never something that we all had a conversation about. It's just something that's happened like naturally.

Well, it's nice that all of you and your sister have managed to actually turn it into what you do for a living. Yeah. Oh, so lucky. No, so, so, so lucky, so privileged to be able to kind of have that as an option as well. And you mentioned that you don't think Bea's going to get any tattoos at all no no we kind of said like for the longest time they were like yes loads and now they're like no not at all and for the eagle eared you have been using they their pronouns because b only a few weeks ago yes said that they're non-binary

absolutely i asked their permission if we could speak about this as well and they were like absolutely the more people that know about these things they're just brilliant you know my husband and i learn from them every day i get really emotional when i speak for my child so i'm gonna um yeah they're brilliant they're brilliant well actually no i think it's a really emotional thing because how old is b they're going to be 11 in two months of their 10th. Which is still very young, but what amazingly emotionally mature person to be able to say, I think it's really good to have this conversation out there. And it sounds like growing up, Bea's always been pretty good at articulating how they're feeling. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's really great. And I'm seeing this in that generation,

especially being allowed to express themselves without you know no you shouldn't really do that you shouldn't really do that and I think it's just wonderful it's kind of it's so authentic that they can actually kind of explore who they are and you know and I think it's just a pleasure to see yeah I think it's amazing too and my kids inspire me a lot too because they're so so matter of fact about um exploring all the spectrum of gender and it's not it's like literally not done in any way for effect or like a learned thing it's just part of their their way of relating to each other yeah and i made me think a lot about it wasn't a conversation i felt was on the table when i was growing up no

um there was lots of talk about um whether or not you were even actually being a feminist was kind of still a bit of a word that people haven't really decided whether or not they wanted to be even if they wanted equality which looking back is really i mean it's not that long no it's not that i was about to say it's not that long ago but so similar to myself as well yeah yeah it's quite extraordinary dirty word wasn't it it was bizarre i remember um probably when i was in my 20s my mum was doing working with i can't which charity it was now but she had these t-shirts we've been given that said this is what a feminist looked like and we both put them on and had a picture taken and i remember thinking if i post this somewhere is that kind of like slightly like a militant yeah exactly but now you know of course

nobody would even question that and i think as well there's a lot of people that from our generation they're still they're actually quite traditional close to home in a way that they might not realize just because a lot of how society is structured is very binary and i'm oh my gosh this is a cause very close to my heart because not just because I have five kids who are all boys, but because when I had my first baby and he happened to be a boy, I was really shocked at how many things were presumed just because people knew that fact.

And that really made my mind like, well, no, I'm determined that, you know, he can choose whatever it is, however he wants to interpret it. And I have some really good conversations with him because um some of his friends he's got a friend that's uh transitioning at the moment so biological boy transitioning to girl and I was like well the thing is Sonny I I want you as a as a boy to be able to interpret that however it works for you so why for your friend is it important that that's now why can they not just be a very feminine boy why does it have to be something else and he was so like measured and he said well that is an option and that is how some people are

but that doesn't work for them and it was just so like of course yeah and I just thought that was really wise yeah I thought well I have to remember these things to pass on to people because they've been allowed to grow you know they've had an environment where they can just... Because gender is such a man... It's such a... These sexuality and gender, it's such man-made constructs. You're this, you're this, or you're this. And it's just so ridiculous.

So our children are just like... It just is what it is. Yeah. And I think it's so awesome that we can learn from our own children as well. And, you know know literally yesterday morning the three of us were sat here having breakfast we were talking about um because i was told them that we were going to have a conversation is it would it be okay and and like lee and i was saying

like this is so great because when we were growing up just from my personal experience i had never heard the term non-binary you know and that wasn't even a concept but obviously obviously thinking about it makes perfect sense and we have friends in our lives that are non-binary and trans and they are the most wonderfully brave awesome people but obviously sometimes they grew up in in environments where that wasn't accepted so it's only a recent thing that they feel comfortable coming forward and saying whereas i hope that as the generations go on that people can kind of come to that conclusion of them know who they are straight away and feel safe to kind of express themselves in that way yeah i mean i definitely think that it is shifting and i thought when sam smith came out as non-binary was a really really impactful thing to do and really brave so a lot of people quite dismissive of it but media yeah i thought it was

absurd really because i think and how can you know how it'd feel to be like you know this massive multi-million selling album selling artist and then put yourself out there knowing knowing that's going to be for some people something they just really struggle to understand like that's not a conversation you had to have no they could have just kept it on as a quiet thing or whatever but think of what that's done to people seeing somebody with that kind of status come out and say that about themselves and be proud about themselves like it I think it's so wonderful that they did that so wonderful that they did that but for me and I'm sure you're the same as well I just don't understand why people have such an issue with it it does not affect them at all and you know there's people that say oh you know they're jumping on the bandwagon or

whatever and it's like do you not see the struggle you know like black trans women their life expectancy is something like 35 in America like it's the statistics are so so awful so to say that people are like jumping on the bandwagon and stuff I find it so incredibly offensive and so incredibly you know just awful to say yeah and it doesn't affect that person's life at all in any way I know you're very much preaching to the converter here because this is something i look you know i understand the importance of having open debates and conversation and i'm all for you know sitting down with people who think differently to you and you know having the chat and trying to you know share each other's you know get involved in people's point of view but when it comes to things like like the trans debate or

non-binary things as you say i don't think i've ever had someone say that their argument and it comes from a personal experience yeah which i find really bizarre but also incredibly indulgent because it means that you've you've allowed yourself this space to sort of intellectualize the debate but you're not you're not actually sitting down with someone and saying can you tell me how it is from your point of view yeah so you're not actually trying to get that proximity no and when you've finished having your intellectual debate about it you're able to walk away from that conversation and live your life that doesn't have any interaction with it yeah whereas for those people as you say the life expectancy or just how that person might feel internalized trauma yeah you you haven't you've left them a little

bit high and dry really because they're already vulnerable yeah so i do struggle with that hugely i just don't i can't get into that mindset i don't understand it no but i do think having conversations is really is vital totally absolutely and you know I said to you earlier about um my mum and and telling her about that and she bless her she was brilliant and she phoned me separately because we had we have a family whatsapp group and B is part of that and then separately she was like right okay they them and then she was like I'm really worried that I'm gonna mess up and I was like B won't care if you mess up and correct yourself they'll see that you're trying and then and I said also it's not about you like oh I'm really worried if I'm gonna you know it's about them so you know it's

just as long as we're listening and as long as we're having these conversations and we're including that community within these conversations as well then what which sorry they should be leading the you know we should be creating safe spaces for them I hope that it can change we're never obviously not everybody's gonna be okay with it because that's just there are idiots out there yeah i know and people feel threatened by things and they don't necessarily want to push on the bit that hurts and understand where that comes from i know well exactly yeah exactly like i noticed from you know like in childhood stuff you know in terms of i know there are companies that do unisex clothing

a lot but there's loads of stuff that's become very very boy girl very very binary and i think it's a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we're actually better at having the conversation about sexuality and gender in grown-ups but there's still this weird fear that if you introduce having that conversation when they're small, you're somehow going to encourage something and bring it out of someone in a kind of, you know what, just because you dress me this way, I'm now actually more likely to live my life differently.

Which is so ridiculous. It's so silly. I saw an amazing tweet and I can't for the life of me remember who said it. And this woman was just like, everything is sexualised anyway. Like, you know, your family portrait at work, which is a heterosexual couple with with your children that's heterosexuality there you know that's and that's fine why is that deemed as fine but yet you know you see a you know on adverts or whatever a gay couple proposing or whatever why is that the like oh my gosh are you saying about the clothing

and stuff it's like you know that's so ridiculous even having binary clothing is is you know that sexuality you know boys will be boys and girls will be girls and it's all glitter or it's a football and it's just so infuriating it's so infuriating and so just pointless as well it is it is but that's why i think it must just come from some weird fear that you're going to sort of cause some sort of chaos if people are allowed to think about themselves but i think you know i've had really interesting conversations with some of my girlfriends where they've they've said that sometimes they're that they've realized that their issue with it is all about not really knowing how they feel about themselves as a woman

and what does are they feminine do they fit that and that's you know that's something that's obviously that should be addressed for for them That's a really important personal thing. Definitely. But it does sound like Bea is a particularly precocious child because that's an unusual level of self-awareness to have at 10. Yes, but also I wonder if it's because they are an only child and they have just been with Lee and I, you know, for all their lives and we very much include them in everything

and we have conversations with them and we talk to them, you know, we include them in everything and we have conversations with them and we talk to them, you know, we include them in our conversations. I don't know. I don't know. They're just, they're brilliant. I wish they were, I wish, you know, you could meet them.

They're just great. They're great. And interestingly enough, the way they dress is very femme. So they love skirts and they love like pastel colours and stuff, but that doesn't define their gender which I love that about them because that's very cool yeah brilliant you know that's

actually sort of what it should really be about isn't it like you can have this choice definitely and even if you know they go about their own that way later on down the line it becomes apparent that actually they do want to you know evolve into something the next step that's that this has all been part of a journey absolutely what a brilliant way to have a childhood where you can actually have these chats and everybody just kind of goes okay you know let's let's explore that with you a few people have said to leah and i like oh my gosh you're such amazing parents and stuff but actually for us it's just like it's just so natural like i don't understand why that just wouldn't be the natural reaction to a child that you love saying that to you well i think that kind of goes back as well with you know with how

how it is for people when they do grow up in a family where they do say I'm gay or this is you know I'm whatever it may be and then they don't they're not met with support and love like that's a very confusing idea isn't it that you'd you'd put that that prejudice in the way of your relationship but you know people are wired complicated in a complicated way and there's all sorts of things about how they were raised and what how they were allowed to express themselves and you know it's just sometimes we're very simple and sometimes we're really complicated nothing's black and white and everything has a nuance to it as well. Exactly.

And how has it gone down at school? How has the school been? I suppose they've only just gone back. They've gone back today, but I told... So, obviously, WhatsApp groups. I'm sure you're in parent WhatsApp groups as well. Oh, yes. Love them very much. Told...

Do you know what? I am so lucky with our one. I am so lucky. Like, our class have just been brilliant. I hear nightmares from other people. But, yeah, I said it in the group um Bea had told their friends anyway and some of the parents have just been absolutely wonderful just like sending messages straight away just been like oh let being we've let our kid know about being and stuff and how do they want to

be addressed which has just been wonderful that's really good really great and for their friends presumably they won't really think too much about it this is the thing it's not it's never the children it's it's the adults but because you know secondary school next year i'm we're gonna speak to the school separately but i'm sure that that's something that they've come across you know already i mean i'm sure they'll be transitioning children within their school yeah and i don't know if you filled in your census thing but i was quite i'm about to that today yeah well i saw on that, when your child is over 16, it's voluntary if you fill it in, but they say,

is the gender your child identifies with the same as they were assigned at birth? And they ask about if there's sexuality, which I think as an overview of where the UK is at, I thought it was really cool they actually put that in there. That shows that it's properly part of mainstream conversation yeah it is yeah it is oh wow I didn't notice that's great I'll have a look at that later yeah well will you thank Bea for me I will do letting us chat about it because I do think it's brilliant and I think I don't think I'm not too not too worried about a lot of that generation

really in that way I think I think they are as you say sort of teaching us a lot of things so much and what and what a time for them to be existing in at the moment i was listening to my friend do a talk yesterday and um she was saying she really hates that they're like the covid generation or whatever or like the forgotten generation and she was like they should be called the remarkable generation because they have the resilience that they've kind of had and gained through this it's been so hard particularly for children and teenage young young adults, teenagers and children. And they have just, they're so great and they're so strong.

And I think, especially with everything last year, BLM, climate change, American elections, which are just everywhere. There's so much around, like so much, so much. And I think they've taken it in their stride

and I'm just really really proud of them you know yeah i'm really proud of that generation no you're right actually because also they've had to look up at their parents faces a lot and see us kind of looking a bit like i'm not actually really sure what to do with that information and having open conversations about it yeah really terrifying for them because that's what i remember i remember b saying to us that they were really scared and like Lee and I were like yeah you know so are we and but we had an extra freezer you had to mention it I bought an extra freezer so lockdown my first lockdown came on and I said to my husband we need an extra freezer and you know it's just taking up space I'm glad it's now

on the podcast I had to adjust it up yesterday I was like do I put a cloth over it I don't I don't it's really pretty I'm gonna get one now I a cloth over it? I don't know. It's really pretty. I'm going to get one now. I'll give you the link. I'll send you the link. Thank you. Yeah, no, it must be a bit of a discombobulating time, to say the least, really,

because it's just, yeah, that uncertainty and seeing lots of parents looking perplexed and being at school. But yeah, there's definitely some benefits to having had that time with them extra time with them having chats about the fact that you know even when we're not in control there's still you can still make a plan and move forward um but i think that comes from privilege as well i think that's something that i've definitely recognized this last year like you

know like just joking about buying the extra freezer i was able to do that having good wi-fi for their online learning having you know um a tablet or a laptop and that's something that's been quite hard not hard but very hard but also something we should recognize is the kind of seeing actually the kind of gap between rich and poor and like kids that are just kind of being left behind and it's that's that's that's another thing and like talking with me about that as well not you know not making them feel bad but we have to recognize that like you know we've been really lucky yeah we have a safe we know we we all get on there's a safe space for them here as well so no you're absolutely right that is that's a really important thing and there'll be lots of kids that haven't had that experience no and that's something that that that needs oh god it

breaks my heart breaks my heart. Breaks my heart. No, I know. There's definitely going to be lots of cracks that will have come out of the last year that will need to be addressed. Yeah, that is heartbreaking. But to sort of, slightly lighter notes. Sorry. Sorry. With tattooing, how often do you see tattoos that are really

terrible and think oh my god that's because i i have have you ever googled like bad tattoo like those photo montages um well there's a lot of instagram accounts as well i do not judge because when i i there are some corkers of mine walking around out there when I first started tattooing. We know we all have to start somewhere. And what happens when you're doing it and you're thinking, that's gone a bit wrong? You add a leaf. You add an extra leaf on there just to know what I'm going to do. I'm just going to add a leaf because I think it really flows with your body.

And if any of my customers are listening to that now, I'm thinking, she said that to me. I've spoken about it. I speak about this because these are like questions that get asked a lot as well from people when they're when they're getting tattooed well it is a pressure isn't it it is do you know what though

it's not anymore but I remember when I first started tattooing I remember thinking like I remember my first boss Mick Miller said to me he was like when he first started tattooing

he would just hope the customers didn't turn up and I totally got that because you're so nervous you're just like oh my gosh but now if they don't turn up I'm like where are you

yeah where it's become quite natural but um yeah you don't i don't mess up i don't mess up tattoos actually i don't know what you're talking about you have to be pretty confident to be able to do that though oh my gosh i because um i'm dyslexic as well so i don't do any script or anything like that because no no or faces i won't well i do sometimes I do but like there are so many amazing portrait art just do your research that's what I'll say to you do your research there's social media is such a wonderful accidental amazing platform for like Instagram has been great for like tattooists because it's like online portfolios and like just do your research it's forever even if it's really

simple I would say still get someone really good well simple tattoos are actually really difficult to do because they've got to be really clean and perfect so do your research i think that's wise advice um are your tattoos all from different people yes yes so loads loads different people and i know like they're really colorful my ones a lot of people say that like oh you don't actually have i love them your style on you i love your bird thank you if i was to start again yeah no do you know what no because i don't all of these i remember they're just really great memories there is my husband's name on my hand that i saw he had your name on his hand my he did right okay this do okay please don't do this at home so we got when we got married we got gifted this bottle of

fruig whiskey that we just, oh, it smells weird. I don't want to drink it. Oh, my God. It's my husband's favourite whiskey. I love it now. We absolutely love it. It's very peaty. We drank a bottle of it.

And then, this is before I was a tattoo artist as well. And just, oh, my gosh. Sorry to any tattooers listening to this. It was like an Edlin ink. He tattooed his name on my hand. And I had no other tattoos around there at the time. There it is. That's fine.

Yeah, it's really, you know. And then we were going for it here as well but it hurt too much for stuff but now we have i have his name on me properly done so i wonder how many people have bought you know you can buy like a home tattoo oh my gosh it terrifies me that stuff because this is the thing as well because sometimes people mess around like i've got this kit that i've bought and i'm like no no no no no because risk of infection there's a reason why they're studios like council I'm going to get into like jargon now but councils pick councils pick up you know your clinical waste like where are those needles going please don't tattoo yourself at home even though I just said I did it and I would no it's such no don't do it not even a little money spoiler for a friend well I, I mean, you know.

Oh, thanks so much for letting me talk to you. And actually, your tattoos are genuinely beautiful. So if I ever did have one, that's why I started following you as well, because I was like, I was torn with the idea of having another one here. I will always. And my jaw will always be open. Look at all that virgin flesh. Wow, I know. There's both of you, actually.

I'm like, uh-huh, okay. I've mapped out your entire bodies already. She's up the door. Lee, get the machine. Oh, how lovely was that chat? How lovely is Rebecca's voice? So comforting. And thank you to her for her time.

Thank you to her husband, Lee, for going out for the morning while we were there recording. How sweet is that? I don't actually mind a bit of background noise noise but I thought it was adorable that he sort of skipped off to give us some space and how lovely of their 10 year old to agree to letting their mum speak so candidly about the decisions they're making and it's just so nice to be in in that environment where you can see and feel so much love and support that they have there. And I think, you know, it's really important for all of us to know that if we know someone or love someone who's

decided to be non-binary, they anticipate us screwing up a little with the pronouns. That's actually a very small thing if the support and the love is there, isn't it? You know, these are hardwired into how we've known that person for a very small thing if the support and the love is there isn't it you know these are these are hardwired into how we've known that person for a long time so mistakes are going to happen but if the intention is good then all is good and I I could really feel that with Rebecca and how she spoke about it I thought that was really important for us all to remember and also should I get another tattoo it made me so. Rebecca would do something so beautiful. I just know it. And that's why I ended up following her in the first place, toying with this idea.

I think it's because I went very big with my first tattoo. It's quite big and prominent. I feel like if I got another tattoo, I'd be a tattooed person. As it is, I'm a person with a tattoo. Do you have any tattoos? It's not always who you expect, is it? In my family, I have one very tattooed sibling on my dad's side. I'm not sure my dad knows about how many tattoos they have. I think he probably does know, but it's just choosing not to acknowledge it. My dad never liked a tattoo. He made it very easy for me to rebel. I think it's quite funny.

I can still remember his face when I showed him mine. I mean, obviously, it's a heart that says family family so he couldn't get too cross but but yeah he definitely wasn't thrilled and uh then my mum has a tattoo and then apart from that it's just yeah i always thought my brother and my sister would get some but oh actually my sister has the world's smallest tattoo she has a tiny little star on her wrist i was with her when she got it done and my brother and i took her along to this tattoo parlor and she sort of disappeared behind a curtain because we weren't allowed to be there when she's having it done and she came out probably about five minutes later all tattooed

in a tiny tattoo it's a very beautiful tattoo but it is not big like mine i think yes martha's kind of the size a my mom is like size b like moderated and i've gone gone pretty big anyway we are nearing the end of series three i've got another two in the bag for you thank you so much for all my guests but mainly thank you to you what a lovely community we have here i'm sure i've told you before but i do so enjoy making these podcasts for you and hearing people's stories and thinking of new guests and there's still so many stories out there to be heard and I love reading your comments and your messages and if you've posted with one of the reviews on the podcast apps and I read all of them and they're so beautiful thank you so much it really does keep me feeling really

excited about what else is out there because you know I think hearing from people is everything really it kind of makes you feel good and makes you feel like you're part of a community and that is something that's really precious so thank you very much please keep the suggestions coming as well thank you as well I probably should thank them every week but I don't because I'm rubbish but thank you to Richard for always editing the podcast, even though that was not the hat he expected to wear for the last year. And thank you to my amazing producer, Claire Jones, who has been so enthusiastic from the get-go about everything we're doing together.

And, you know, more to come. I've got a lovely long list of people who've already agreed to speak to me for the next series, and how lucky am I? And what a nice thing that we just get to have these lovely conversations. I think I'm feeling particularly sentimental because I'm still speaking to you from a very quiet big bed in Manchester, miles away from the chaos of my family where I can just you know miss them in that nice cozy comforting way and don't, I will be nice and knackered this time tomorrow. My voice will sound less rested and you'll be the old, slightly more frayed, less rambly me

that you know and love. Actually still a little bit rambly, but not quite as bad. Anyway, I will not trail who's coming up next week because I'll probably get it wrong. Thank you very much for listening as ever. See you next week. And wherever you are, I hope you have a really good night's sleep tonight because wow what a difference it makes i'm enjoying it i'm savoring it see you soon Thank you.