Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 31: Melanie C

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

Woo! It’s a new episode of my podcast Spinning Plates. I’m so excited to be back with new episodes for you. Kicking off series 4 is the wonderful, warm and wise Melanie C. She tells me about the challenges and joy of being a solo artist and about facing the worst nerves she's ever had before going on stage for Blood Brothers on the West End. We also talk about her lovely relationship with her 12 year old daughter and how much fun they had together on the Spice Girls tour in 2019. Big thanks to Melanie for speaking so openly with me and thank you to you for lending me your ears when you listen! Enjoy 😘❤️ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Woohoo! Series four of Spinning Plates.

That's right, I've started with a homemade jingle. Super catchy, guys. should we sing it together that's right series four of spinning pleats mickey i can't go on the trampoline right now no i'm talking to my podcast listeners um yeah i'm in the garden with mickey it's been raining the weather's been up and down. We've had some lovely warm weather. Got a bit excited. Bought some shorts. Today it rained. Don't forget it's Britain, folks. load of interviews recorded for you to listen to for this my fourth series of the podcast uh another eclectic wonderful group of amazing women starting off with melanie c who i've met a few times along the way she's always been so lovely and warm and open and chatty lovely company um but she was so nice to chat to for this and hear about her lovely daughter and the relationship they have and talk a bit about sexism the music industry and what it's like to be a solo artist when you've been in a band and for me to try and

get my head around what it must be like to have been in something like the Spice Girls. So hard to imagine that level of fame and success. Wow. You know, that's just an extraordinary experience. So yeah, we had a lovely chat and I'm very excited to share it with you. It's a great way to start this series. And yeah, I'm just excited really. Thank you once again for giving me this opportunity. You know, this podcast is, I'm sure you really thank you once again for giving me this opportunity you know this podcast is uh I'm sure you've heard me bang on about it before but it really does mean an awful lot and it's a real treat and a privilege to get to record these conversations and call it work it's not really work is it it's just a nice thing to share so thank you very much for that and I hope you've been okay in the interim I suppose I last spoke to you what was it

about five weeks ago so I hope life's treating you well let's see what happens with summer holidays and all that but in the meantime let's hope the sun shines it does lift the spirits doesn't it anyway I'm gonna stop waffling on about the weather what Mickey you don't want to eat? Okay, all right. That's that then. Two-year-old has spoken. I'll see you on this other side. But yeah, thank you to you. Thank you to Melanie.

See you in a bit. Yeah, I've got so many things I want to talk to you about, but I think I'll probably start with this here and now. So you released an album last year, which is a fantastic achievement, given especially what a weird year it was. And it went top ten, which I think last year was so tricky for music because so many people were going to familiar things, as it was a sort of way of, I suppose, providing a bit of catharsis

and escapism from what was going on but it must have been really exciting for you to have a project in amongst it all thank goodness I did you know I think at the beginning I was in Australia actually just starting the promo I had a show over there and Covid excuse me Covid was just gathering pace so of course we didn't know what was going to happen. And then the questions were raised. It's like, I've worked so hard on this album. Am I going to release it at this strange time

where I might not be able to promote it properly? Is it going to disappear without a trace? So we did question whether holding it back. And my single was about to drop. I think we were going into lockdown here in the UK. And there were so many wheels in motion it was like you know what it'd be very difficult to change tack now so we went with it and I actually do feel really grateful because it was a really quite up-tempo record

it was electronic it's dancey pretty feel-good and I just thought with everything going on people really reacted to it so beautifully and it kept me dead busy you know it kept me focused because I found in the last few months where things have quietened down for me because I'd be touring now yeah that I'm twiddling my thumbs and starting to think about everything and now I I can really understand a lot of the things people were going through initially when we went into lockdown oh that's interesting so you felt you almost had slightly delayed the emotions that people were talking about then you're like oh I'm getting that now. Yeah I was kind of I was feeling it in a way but I think because I had focus

because I had things to do every day you know I was busy as you are and in a way it was so weird because I was finding I was busier than I would be because you can get to anywhere in the world and there were lots of places and lots of tv shows and radio shows that normally wouldn't accept a video call you know and right now I was on zoom calls and I'd have these really weird days where I'd start in Australia and then I'd be in Europe in the day and then the US in the evening and it was like it was great and it was exciting and I got lots of things to do but it was also quite exhausting yeah but in a way you think some of that's quite appealing it's better than getting on a plane for hours and jet lag

exactly and I suppose you have haven't yet had a chance to do the album live so that's all still to I've had one very small opportunity which was very surreal we did a live stream there I think it was the week we launched the album so it it was October time. And it gave me an opportunity to rehearse with my musicians and play everything live. But of course, you know, if you're going to film a show, you're going to do it a few shows in, when you're comfortable, you know, it's in your bones. But to do a live stream, the very first performance of that material, and there's nowhere to hide, you know, it was quite petrifying. It was probably the most stressful gig I've ever done. And then you've got no audience to feed off. material and there's nowhere to hide yeah you know it was yeah it was quite petrifying it was

probably the most stressful gig I've ever done and then you've got no audience to feed off so yeah you're looking down the lens and you're talking to people and it just felt really weird I have to be honest although I enjoyed performing and being able to play with my musicians it wasn't the most enjoyable performance of my life you know you much rather be on stage dialogue with the audience I've always thought of gigs a bit like dates you know and you sort of the first sort of like song in you're like you kind of get a bit of a measure of them don't you like this is going to be a really good date I'm definitely going to see you again or like oh you're a bit cold I'm going to try and work my charm on you you know and you win them over by the

end exactly you know it's funny I you know obviously over the years doing so many different things I've learned lots of different things from different experiences and when I worked in the West End I think that was my biggest learning curve with audiences because I thought there was like there was kinds of audiences I thought maybe there was like you like you say you you get the ones that are a little bit cold, but you warm them up. The ones who are just super good and cold. But every single audience has a different personality. And I think doing eight shows a week,

you really begin to understand that. So, you know, like working in the business for so many years, you still have so much to learn. Yeah, all the time, definitely. And that's interesting interesting so do you think the West End thing has almost got a slightly is it quite similar in that way to any kind of the kind of gig or can you do you not really pick up on the mood of the audience for a little while because of the way that the play is structured I think it's more to do with because you've got

more time to absorb it you know the show that I was doing there are moments of stillness more than you'd have like performing with a band and so yeah it gives you that opportunity to really you know to to feel what they're feeling yeah that must be really electric actually I've never done anything like that and I think you're totally right when you say that every there's such a learning curve that goes on all the time with performance. And actually, I only did one live stream gig like you're talking about with the band. I actually wasn't even with the band,

but I did a gig, like a corporate thing during lockdown where it was just me and I did, I don't know, half an hour, 40 minutes set on my own. And I thought if this had been one of my early gigs, I think this would have made me cry or something. It was just actually fairly traumatic. It was like one of my early gigs, I think this would have made me cry or something. It was just actually fairly traumatic. It was like one of the toughest gigs I've ever done just because there was no feedback.

Well, you're not getting anything back, are you? It's kind of weird. But I tell you what I did do, which was pretty amazing and was helpful. Beforehand, somebody's come up with this thing where you can do a meet and greet, a virtual meet and greet. So there was lots of people who'd signed up to do this thing and you have a little chat with them and you do this signature on the screen.

It's very clever. And because I'd made this connection with the people who were going to be out there watching the gig, it made it a bit more real because otherwise it's just very flat. Yes. You know, it's very strange. But, you know, amazing that we're able to do it and who knows what the future holds.

But, you know, I do hope and pray that we're back on stage in front of knows what the future holds but you know I do hope and pray that we're back on stage in front of hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of people in no time. I'd settle for ten people right now. I would yeah but the smaller they are the more daunting it is isn't it just the bigger bigger bigger. That's true for the moment anything bigger than the people in my house and I'd be like woo exciting times um and so I suppose a lot of the last year you've been spending, so your daughter is 12 now, isn't she? Yeah. So she's, I don't know if you, my second boy is 12

and I feel like it's right on the cusp of the next bit. Did you get a sense of that as this quite a strange year to have at that age as well, quite precious really. It's quite a nice time to have it in a way. I have been thinking about this a lot actually and in the last year she has changed so much and I think for her age group and maybe where she is in her development,

I think it's probably one of the most difficult ages. She started secondary and it feels like she's gone from being a child to this young adult you know it's crazy she's literally just 12 and you know when I look at her the way she speaks to me the knowledge that she has the way she looks you know it's what I imagine myself to be like at like 13 yeah you know it feels very very different and and I think it's been hard because it's such a time when your friends become very important, you know, the social aspect of things. And even physically, at the beginning of lockdown, you know, she was still my little girl and I could drag her out on walks every day.

Towards the end of lockdown, she's gone a little bit teenage. So getting her out of bed is actually quite tricky. Yes, i can very much relate to that my um 12 year old son is horrible to me in the mornings actually uh i don't think he means to me he's just he's just very very cross i i think i've become this sort of physical embodiment of early mornings in school rather than just his mum i'm like i'm not actually school i'm just the person who needs to get you out the door in time for school but yeah I think it's it's a lot of them and you know you're right this whole bit of secondary obviously it's about education as well but it's so much about the social side and that next bit of your life and independence is

she does she make her own way to school yeah she does and it's in the last few weeks it's been like wanting to go shopping with her mates and you know hanging out the park with her mates and I mean all mums out there listening will know petrifying you know because you're you're like you're so used to like holding their hand when they cross the road now they're going to be crossing the road with the mates with the phones out you know please look please listen but you know it's those apron strings isn't it and it feels weird having to cut them at 12. Yeah well you don't have to it just has to sort of morph. Get a bit yeah yeah the bungee. Exactly to it just has to sort of morph get a bit yeah yeah the

bungee exactly exactly you just have to like add some lengths onto the apron string and tie it on where they can't see it it's still there it's just like a mile yeah that's what those tracking apps are for exactly yes and it comes in the form of an app and in fact it's called apron strings that would actually be really good that's a great idea it's the apron strings out they don't know about it we know where they are fine and it can go up to like my mum probably still quite like that for me now um so whenever i've heard you talk about your daughter you seem to credit your daughter and motherhood as really quite i mean it's significant for everybody that goes through it but sort of next level significance and do you think part of that is, it's significant for everybody that goes through it, but sort of next level significance. And do you think part of that is because a lot of it's been the two of you?

Do you feel like you've got that very important bond from that? Yeah, you know, I think a lot of it is that. We've had a lot of time when it has been just the two of us, but in some ways that can make our relationship really intense. You know, so having, you know, I have a boyfriend now, and we live together and she has step-siblings so that's kind of helped with that that side of things but I think even from the moment I heard somebody say this yesterday and something I've always said as well is like

as a woman as soon as you become pregnant you become a mother you know because obviously you know the responsibility begins then because you have to start looking after yourself in ways you might not have done beforehand absolutely you know and and I think just also the big thing for me was it not all being about me I think being a performer you know being in the public eye often it can be quite selfish and everybody's doing things for you yeah and when you have the responsibility of another human being I think it can be um a relief you know to be able to put some of that energy somewhere else yeah that's a really nice way of putting it because I was thinking I remember reading a really long time ago a quote from Gwyneth Paltrow where she said whatever age you become famous part of you kind of stays that age it's actually really hard

to grow up past that and you're kind of a lot of your life you're infantilized in terms of people making plans for you or you could basically turn on your back and just say you know push me in the right direction if you wanted to you know 100 so do you think that having a baby really sort of yeah changed the shift of as you say say, responsibility. Yeah, it did. You know, it just took the focus away. And I think too much focus on yourself, you know, it can be unhealthy. You know, we all can think too much at times. I think especially as women, you know, we put ourselves under a lot of pressure.

But then again, excuse me, as a mum, you know, there's even more pressure. But personally for me, it was yeah it was it was magical and it it just it helped me I suppose you know realize there was more to life than my work because that pretty much had been everything up until that point yeah I mean you raised by a working mum as well yeah so I have I think I've got a pretty strong work ethic growing up in the north my mum's a singer as well and my stepdad's a bass player and they performed all weekend but then my mum had Growing up in the north, my mum's a singer as well, and my stepdad's a bass player, and they performed all weekend, but then my mum had a job in the week as well. She did whatever she had to do to make ends meet, put food on the table.

So I just grew up in that environment, knowing you have to work hard to get by. And that's, yeah, it stood me in good stead, but then sometimes I think it can be a bit of a curse as well, because you do feel guilty when you're not working hard and you can you know it's quite easy to get to burnout yeah and was there a time when it was just you and your mum because you're I think you have a similar thing to me where I'm the only child from my mum and dad's marriage and then they separated when I was four I think it was the same

sort of time for you is that right it's really similar yeah um yeah that's exactly what happened and um I think I had a short time with my mum, being so little. It's hard to remember, isn't it? But, yeah, she got together with my stepdad quite quickly after that. And they're still together now, and my dad's remarried. And, yeah, so it's... Your childhood's a funny thing, isn't it? Because when you look back on it,

with all the knowledge you have as an adult, you go, oh, this and this and this. But as a kid, you just... That's all you know. Absolutely. So it's your normal, isn't it? Definitely. it definitely I mean weirdly one of the first podcast interviews I did was with my mum and actually it was probably one of the hardest I did as well because you don't often have those sort of chats with your parents and it was really this is going to sound really silly actually but it was the first time I'd really thought of the bit between when I was like

four and seven as being my mum was a single mum. As you said, I didn't really have any context for it. It's just the bit that happened next before my stepdad arrived on the scene. And like you, my mum and stepdad had a really happy, long marriage. So I always felt like I got two happy endings out of one unhappy marriage with my mum and dad. They both remarried before I was 10. But yeah, it really shifted the perspective and thought oh yes it was just the two of us for like three years and actually

my mum said she thinks it became like the bedrock of our relationship and possibly it'd be the same for you and your daughter at that time when it was just the two of you it's like it's really significant yeah it doesn't always need to be articulated between you but it's just it's just what happened yeah I think we are super close obviously she's coming to be articulated between you, but it's just what happens. Yeah, I think we are super close. Obviously, she's coming to that age where, you know, she doesn't want to tell me everything, but that's fine. But, yeah, I do feel like there's an incredible bond there. Yeah, and I think I remember reading that you'd said

that you felt like she gave you a lot of strength as well just to move out of the relationship you were in with her dad and start the next bit. Do you still sort of remember it that way that she gave you that? Yeah, absolutely. And in so many ways, because I realised, you know, when you have a child and, you know,

I know everybody has different experiences, but, you know, I was lucky in that I just looked at her and I just thought, wow, you know, this is the most important thing I've ever had happen to me in my life. And I have to be the most, you know, the best I can be to show her how to be. You know, because you, although very, you know, I credit her with being my teacher, but you are their teacher as well, you know. So I just thought, wow, I can't.

are their teacher as well, you know? So I just thought, wow, I can't, because I think I've, I'm quite, I'm a bit of a people pleaser and I don't like confrontations. So often I won't, I won't speak up for myself. You know, I've lived a lot of my younger life like that. And I just looked at her and I just thought, you know, cause it hasn't always served me well, you know, people have treated me badly at times. And I looked at her and I just thought, I don't want that for you. And that gave me the strength to go, do you know what? It's time for me to start standing up for myself

to show her that you should not be treated in the way that certain people were treating me, you know? And then, which is so funny, is she's so different to me. She's super headstrong. She's super opinionated. Not allowed to say it. um you know maybe some of that is to do with me leading the way but I think her own personality is so fully formed and she's

a she's a toughie definitely oh that's brilliant I think I mean I really I'm the same as you about that people pleasing aspect and I remember you know we're now both in our 40s and I remember thinking what my 40s has got to be the decade where that just stops why why am I still trapped in that thing of always wanting to say what I think the other person wants me it doesn't it's actually really unhelpful all around as well because you end up sometimes trying to later on get out of something where you're like oh I've taken it too far now and I've just got to keep going with this because I could didn't say no in the first place so I'm desperate to lose all that desperate I know yeah I my brother always says to me you know you are you're just too soft and yeah I mean my nan said that to me as well before she passed away you're too soft you girl she said

to me and um and it's so so true and and you know both of both my brother and my nan you know very influential people in my lives their their words ring in my ears sometimes and I think, come on, you know, say no. Just say no. Well, that's funny because I was thinking about that in the context of I know you've been, you did a tour with Sink the Pink. So with these drag queens

and you ended up doing amazing stuff like going to Brazil to do Pride. What was that like? Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean, you know Sink the Pink really well as well, don't you? You know, amazing people. I absolutely adore them. And I was, I think, three days after the last Spice Girls show at Wembley,

I was in a rehearsal room, still a bit hungover, to be honest, and I was getting ready to jump on a plane and fly over to Sao Paulo. I was absolutely exhausted exhausted but the experiences with the drag queens and just being around them just you know gave me that energy that I needed to get through it all and we did a bit of a world tour with the show being in Sao Paulo was incredible because it's a difficult time over there they have a very right-wing president at the moment um you know with some quite interesting ideas about the community and as an international artist I just felt like everybody was so grateful that we were there yeah and we were on a float and we were traveling down Palista Avenue which is just this it's enormous

road that runs through Sao Paulo if anyone it doesn't know the city, it's just this crazy metropolis, literally as far as the eye can see. And there was three million people on the street that day. So you're just people, a sea of people. And, you know, and you know those Brazilians, they know how to party. So the sights and the sounds and the smells and everything, it was just insane.

Wow, I would love to see that. I mean, just even just to be on the street, what an amazing experience. That's really, I mean, that's just vitality right there. But also, as you say, also an act of defiance. You know, the landscape that it's not just all about the party. It's about actually saying, it's about acceptance and love and the celebration of that.

So that's really, really powerful. And it's funny because I think, going back to the drag queens, I feel like that is now a really significant aspect of teenage influence. I recently went back to my old school, which is a girls' school, to go and give a little talk. And typically I got there and it was literally like I couldn't work out the teachers and the sixth form girls. Everybody just, it was really one of those things like, okay, I've definitely crossed over into that category of my life.

But I'd written this little speech, like the things I thought would be, I was imagining if I was sat there in the auditorium, like what would be a useful thing to hear? And I quoted a bit of RuPaul and everybody, all the girls cheered. And I thought, you know, the whole, there's a massive deal about how that drag queen culture has really provided a lot for teenage girls. And I was sort of thinking about why that is.

And I was thinking because so much of it is about acceptance. And, you know, you can, all the drag queens, when you watch something like RuPaul's program, they've all got these amazing stories. And it starts off with them looking teflon coated and immaculate and fierce and impenetrable and awesome but then behind it there's always fragility and vulnerability and you know different levels of challenge that they've faced to get to that point and I think for particularly teenage girls that really resonates because basically that vulnerability and that fragility is how you're feeling most of the time, isn't it?

And so to have that sort of alter ego of fierceness. But I think I wondered if for you and I, and particularly other female performers in our sort of peer group, that kind of came later and we got the benefit of that later. I feel like kind of from my mid-30s, I really started to sort of take that on board. I mean does any of what I say make sense to you? Yeah it does in a way but I think because my situation's a bit strange you know with the Spice Girls I kind of had that but in a sisterhood you know so I went through my 20s with the girls kind of having this bravado and this strength and empowerment

but then as an individual I was really crumbling inside you know I was very vulnerable. They represented that same thing. Yeah and I think because as a band that's what we represented you know that was you know what we shouted about girl power you know it was about individuality but having that unity is what gave us the strength. So I think when I went off to become a solo artist, that was when I kind of, I don't know, I think I was just so excited to express myself as an individual. You know, my time with the Spice Girls has been, and still is, you know, when we get together, incredible and nothing can surpass that in people's minds you know and also the experiences

as a solo artist I know I'm never going to play Wembley Stadium you know I'm never going to do a lot of the things that the Spice Girls are able to do but you know there's much more to that being an artist there's a lot much more to a lot much more that's great English being an artist there's so much more um than those things so going out their first album and I think it was yeah it was at that point when I suppose the you know the bravado of youth and that kind of strength and resilience I'd build up within the band started to fall away and it took me a long time to really feel that I know I'd say actually this album which I released last year um is a bit of a new chapter I walked away from well virtually everybody that I worked with the

management I'd worked with for many many years I've worked with lots of new songwriters and producers and I have a new band which for me was petrifying because I hate change. But in doing it, it gives me this strength. And that felt like the new chapter. And I was, I turned 47 this year. And yeah, wow. Why has it taken me that long to get to this point? And of course, you know, I still have my insecurities.

But I think now I finally got to the point where I do put myself first, you know, and it's important to do because if you don't, then you can't expect to be everything everybody else needs from you. You know, it can't be about other people. You need to make sure you're good first. Yeah, well, I don't think it's any surprise it takes a long time because I think particularly that people-pleasing characteristic is a really hard one to untangle because, you know, you still want to be a kind, decent person. Yeah.

So it's just about the nuance of where those boundaries are are incredibly bespoke and actually it does take a really long time. And I remember not that long ago, there was some decision that was being made and I was talking over with Richard and he said, well, what do you want? What do you want to do? And I actually got really emotional

because I realised I didn't really know. I couldn't really work it out anymore. I was trying to always work out what was best for sort of everybody and I couldn't, I was like, I don't actually know what it is I do want in this. I think sometimes you don't really stop to think about that

and I suppose particularly when you've been part of that the band and I mean I suppose do you think in a weird way it kind of gave a sort of not delayed adolescence exactly but maybe some of the aspects of things you might have dealt with in your a little bit sooner it kind of gave a bit of a put a pause pause on that because it just caught up in it. But I think the way my life has turned out, it has done that completely. And I think the last year being in the pandemic has made me realise that my work and my lifestyle, I run away from things all the time. I never deal with anything because I've got a trip, so I'll deal with it after that.

Or I've got a really big, you know, shoot coming up and it's all a focus on trip, so I'll deal with it after that. Oh, I've got a really big shoot coming up and it's all focused on that, so I'll deal with it after that. There's always an excuse to not really deal with stuff. Definitely. And I think being... I've never been in one place in my adult life, I've never been in one place for this long. And I thought at first...

It's actually really extraordinary when you think about it. It's crazy, isn't it? And, yeah, and I thought it's actually really extraordinary when you think about it it's it's crazy isn't it and yeah and I kind of the novelty at first I loved it and I got into that routine and you know having having a weekend because you know like being a performer it's anti-social you know we usually work at weekends but I've enjoyed having weekends and letting my hair down and doing some lovely cooking and having some nice wine. And it comes to Friday and I'm all excited. I'm like, wow, this is like my teenage years.

You know, this was what life was like before work. And but now I've got, you know, that was all fun for a time. And now I'm like, I need to run away. Well, you also need the other half of what you normally do as well. Yeah, and I think because it's made us all question everything, hasn't it? And I did question, like, why do I do this and do I really enjoy it? And it's like, well, of course you enjoy it, but I don't enjoy all aspects of it. And I've kind of come all the way back round to go, you know what?

I've always thought the idea of being at home, having a routine, you know, having a regular social life I thought that was I really missed that and I really wanted that and now I'm like I actually really miss my work yeah well it's quite a nice feeling to miss it because before that is you can feel a bit beholden to it can't you just fill the diary say yes to everything get myself out there and and structure your life around your work and it's like no no no I want to structure my work around my life yeah now as much as I can and I suppose so chronologically speaking the the big cull with the management with lots of people and working new management all of that that did that to come sort of just before so while you're making this new album it was actually oh my timing

was perfect it I released an album in oh gosh I'm testing myself now I'd released an album in, oh gosh, I'm testing myself now. I'd released an album a few years before and I decided to do that just as I released that album. Good one. Yeah, so that was interesting. But you know. That must have been taken a lot, actually. Did you have to have all those conversations yourself? I think I delegated some of the conversations.

Yeah, I definitely would. I hate that kind of thing. I hate conversations. Yeah, I really do too. But, you know, you can never time these things. It was just something that happened. There was a catalyst and it all unfolded and that was the way it was. And possibly you kept things going on for much longer than you really think,

feeling great about things as well. I think, you know, in hindsight hindsight I wish I'd done it sooner um but you know things work out in the way they're meant to I do believe that I'm very impressed though because I think that's a really big deal to actually be able to move things forward like that I've definitely been guilty of keeping things going far far longer than I should just because the idea of actually having to have that conversation is just too horrible but you know what I? I find that something happens and it just, you know, one of the hardest things I ever did was leaving my little girl's dad, you know, and it was on my mind for a while. And, you know, it's a huge life decision in this

whole life you have planned out, you know, your whole future. It's, it's terrifying. And, um, yeah, I just got to this point one day I was out running actually, which is a place I find quite good for making those big life decisions. Um, yeah, it just, it just struck me. I have to do this now. Yeah. And I never looked back. Um, and I think when you have no regrets and you don't look back, you realize, yeah yeah it was the right thing to do but it takes you as long as it takes you to get to that point definitely yeah do you think you're one of those people because I know I can be like this where I'll sort of take something for a long time and then there'll be one thing and I'm like yeah and it's almost like

the shutters will come down a bit yeah I'm like I'm done I'm actually done and as soon as I've made that decision for those moments because that's what gives you the strength yeah you know because they're kind of unsure because you know you know, these big, big decisions, they're hard to make. They are. And they're hard to carry through as well. Yeah, and it's all a process. And you kind of almost need to know you've done all that to know that you get to that bit in the first place.

Yeah. Otherwise, I mean, to me, one of the hardest emotions to live with would be regret. And I've never had that, maybe because you do kind of let it do its full cycle and then move on. Yeah. You talked about running now, and I know obviously you've had a big relationship with exercise. Is that something that still played a part when you were having a baby

and all throughout the time that you'd, you know, a new mum? Yeah, I didn't know what to expect, you know, my first and only child. One of the things I'm quite proud of, being sporty, I was on the treadmill only walking uphill on my due date yeah I am what gradient I am I think I just had this thing which was really nice actually because obviously when I became pregnant I because I've been so harsh on my body you know throughout my life I've danced and gymnastics and I've been so harsh on my body, you know, throughout my life. I've danced, done gymnastics, and I've just exercised and done things to my body, which you probably shouldn't do, and I'm paying for now.

But then when I became pregnant, I realised it was really important, you know, to look after myself physically. And so that was when I started having more of a focus on what was happening in my life. When I went to the gym, so like I was preparing for labour. That was kind of the focus so it was loads of stuff like you know just like more strengthening work and taking care of the back and posterior chain and all of those things and um yeah my daughter was super late hence being on a treadmill on my due date um but I think that really stood me in good stead for the post-pregnancy

because I had actually had a really birth, like so many of us. And I ended up having an emergency C-section. So I tried to go back to the gym, I think, when they say you can, maybe six weeks or something. And I was like, forget about it. And it took me a while to get back into the gym. And I needed that time. I just needed to be at home with her.

And you're so tired aren't you so exhausted physically emotionally in every way and um when I went back to the gym it really it was it came back quite quickly um and I was started working when she was six seven months old I went into the theatre at that point so I think because I'd been fit and taken care of business before, you know, even though I just, you know, I think I put on all the weight that, which is, they say, is like the highest end of the scale of health. You know, I ate all the cakes, I had the best time, all through like breastfeeding and everything. And then, yeah, when it came back to working and thinking about those things, it wasn't too much of a challenge.

So you went back to work for, you went to the West End when she was only really little. Yeah. And because I hadn't. That was doing Blood Brothers, was it? I went into Blood Brothers, yeah. And I didn't put any pressure on myself because I didn't know how I was going to feel, whether I was going to go back to work, when I was going to go back to work. And just an opportunity came up and I started getting a bit of itchy feet

and feeling like I could do something. And West just seemed perfect we live in London I'd be out in the evenings home most of the day so it just felt like the the good a good first thing to do because you know working in music so much of my work is traveling and I didn't want to be away from her but is that so is that the first West End thing you'd done at that point yeah that's quite a big thing to take on isn't it it's like quite a big I mean I know it's got its advantages in terms of its predictable nature and being in the same city but I mean I've always thought of West End as like a mass quite a big commitment it's like the hardest thing I've ever done and I never expected that I think when you've toured you you know, that's gruelling, isn't it?

It's so hard. You know, sometimes you're sleeping on a bus. Well, not with the Spice Girls, but as a solo artist. You're sleeping on a bus, you know, you're playing gigs, you're showering at the venue and you're just knackered, aren't you? You're so, so tired. Nothing like being a mum, though, to be honest. But when I went into the theatre,

I was just so excited to get this opportunity. Love Blood Brothers, obviously, you know, Willie Russell, great playwright, great songs. And it's such a good role, Mrs Johnston. I'd actually done it at school. So I was excited to be part of the production. And, you know, I really focused on it and I did all the work. I did loads of stuff with the director. And I was petrified.

And I have to say, standing in the wings on opening night, I've never been so scared. and I did all the work. I did loads of stuff with the director and I was petrified. And I have to say, standing in the wings on opening night, I've never been so scared. I literally had to suck my cheeks to stop myself from vomiting. Because you know when the spit starts going off. Yeah, and I don't even remember that first show. It was one of those experiences when it finishes, you're like, what just happened?

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes there's that fear with one thing in particular where it's like there's you just have that fear I cannot get out of this I've just got to do it but do you have this too yeah when you go so often I'll be on the side of stage and I think why do I do this yeah why do I do this to myself yeah I have that frequently in fact weirdly if, if the only reason to say no to something is that it scares me, I'm more likely to say yes. I know, I'm the same. I'm the same. And it's so ridiculous. You know, we were talking, weren't we, earlier about the pandemic

and how it's given us a little bit of anxiety going back to the things we were so used to doing before. And, you know, when I just think about the things I've done, you know, I've played Wembley Stadium with the Spice Girls you know I've played the lead in a West End show and then then I'm getting nervous about going down to Sainsbury's I think it is an amazing thing to do the West End thing and it must have taught you a lot but did you when you look back to that do you feel like it was quite tricky to do that with that with a young baby or was it actually just something that really helped you get back into your own head a little bit um it was I think it was good in the

respect for me because I did want to get back to work I was so close to home with her you know her dad was around at the time and or she was teething with her molars at that point so he had a lot of sleepless nights which he never lets me or her forget about but um yeah I mean it's hard looking back all I remember is realizing how hard the West End is and just the respect I have for people that work in the theatre because you know a lot of the shows and a lot of the the parts in the shows don't pay that well and a lot of people can't even afford to live that close to London yeah because you know and it's crazy it's yeah it's it makes me really sad because these people they dedicate their lives to working in the West End. You know, but they love it.

And, you know, there's that thing, isn't it? We talk about why do we do it? Why do we do this to ourselves? It's because it's so incredible once you're out there on the stage, you know, performing for people. It is. It really is. And you've mentioned the Spice Girls a few times. What exactly is that?

No, I'm joking. Well. But since you've had your daughter, the Spice Girls have had, they had one tour, is that right? The tour that you did in 2019? Yeah. So it was the first time she'd got to see that and presumably as well,

the other girls had their kids as well come along sometimes. Yeah, it's amazing because we toured in 2007 and 2008 and I had Scarlett in 2009, so just missed that one. But this one, she was a perfect age because she was 10, I think, when we toured in 2007 and 2008, and I had Scarlett in 2009, so just missed that one. But this one, she was a perfect age, because she was 10, I think, when we toured. And, yes, all the kids are there, and they're very engaged. And for them, you know, to see us in that environment as well, because a lot of the kids were really young when we toured last time,

so they had the best time. And having them there and coming on stage and learning the routines and it was um yeah it was really magical and she says to me you know even now oh mom I miss that can't you do it again I'm like yeah go on go on you go and ring the others and tell them got to do it again that's delegating again um did she speak I suppose it's hard for her to really have much of a thing to compare it to but seeing you in that environment and then obviously she'd seen other things you've done solo things but there's a big thing of you know everybody's celebrating in the affection and all that

reflection as well on what the spice girls had meant to them did she really have much of a idea of all that it was completely overwhelming i think for her because she's grown up around what I do you know like I know your kids have as well and she's so blasé I've been doing shows and the crowd are loving it and I've turned around and she's like reading a book or I've been doing this acoustic thing and I like perform the first song and she's there watching in a turn around and by the second song she's gone um so yeah she's super blasé but when it came to you know playing stadiums and the reception we got was out of this world we never expected the shows to go as well as they did and it was electric every night I mean I get goosebumps even thinking about it and to see how it affected a generation of young people you know it was it was incredible and yeah I suppose to see your mum on those big screens at the side

and I think the first few shows she was really overwhelmed and I was really cool for a few weeks and then you know normal business resumed but um yeah I'm so pleased she was able to see that and I hope she gets to see it again because now it's all about TikTok you know she wants to take all her mates and put it all over Instagram so um yeah so hopefully she can do that if we do it again I think it's really funny what what kids do get excited about when their parents perform and the bits they really don't and sometimes when we were doing when the lockdown was happening we were doing um these little discos on instagram from my account here and my 12 year old um he's now 12 he's then 11 it was really obsessed as well like tiktok and wants to build his follow account

everything's like and subscribe and all this stuff and um but even that i'd say to him oh we're gonna we're gonna do a live stream disco do you want to to come? And he'd always be like, nah, but can you make me some tea after you finish? You know, if it wasn't exactly in the context that made sense to him, it was just like, it's not really very interesting to me. So I guess doing that tour in 2019 must have also helped you sort of, I mean, I might be wrong putting it this way, but it sounds like you had to sort of slightly come to terms, I guess, a little bit with the just intensity of I mean obviously there are extreme highs with

being in that group but also as you said before the kind of outward projection and then how you sometimes feel on the inside that's a lot to a lot to process I think going into it I was I was a little bit reluctant you know there was years I said I wouldn't do it again. And there were a lot of emotions and things that I revisit when I get into that environment. But I feel like this tour was so magical and, you know, it just felt so right. And I felt it was the first time I fully enjoyed it

and appreciated it and was relaxed with it. And the relationship between the girls, you know, we had a wonderful time. And I think more than anything, once we got on that stage, because we were petrified, you know, can you imagine? It's many, many years later, you know,

we're a lot older, all eyes are on us. And it was a big show. It was a big production. There was a lot to live up to. But as soon as we used to come up on a um a lift at the front of the stage and that opening night in Dublin at Croke Park you know first night are we going to remember everything you know are we going to mess it up you know we were like freaking out backstage and as soon as we come up and that like wave of love hit us, the nerves went away.

And I've never felt like that on stage. And I think the difference for me being a solo artist to being with the girls is that we are a team, you know, and we've got each other's backs. So you kind of like we were holding hands as we were going up. And it was the most amazing thing I've ever experienced. And from that moment on, every single show, I just enjoyed every second. And I think, you know, in the past, I've maybe beaten myself up if I've sang words wrong

or sang a bit flat or done the wrong choreography. But in this one, it was just joyous. And I just think that's what the Spice Girls is about. So it taught me to really just relax and enjoy more than I had ever done before that sounds absolutely amazing and what a lovely thing and I think that the key word that's probably being being relaxed because actually the hard work is done the legacy is safe that's all protected the memories were protected the emotion people feel associated and that's just a bit of enjoying

it well I think we felt it was like a celebration yeah you know that's what we wanted it to be and it totally turned out to be that and i saw in your in the videos for the album you did last year you'd put you know there's a lot some of them very obvious reflections of of that time you know one video you're actually looking at images of yourself all throughout that stage but but even in the one you did with nadia rose which i love that's my favorite and i love nadia rose as well she's great you had all the little little wobbly heads yeah wobbly heads I know so the great thing that happened when we did the tour in 2019 it was the first time I realized I'm not separate people you know all of these aspects of me are me you know so I am a mum and I am a solo artist and I am Sporty Spice because I was like

how am I gonna get up and sing wannabe in my 40s how can I do how can I be Sporty Spice kicking and jumping around like a nutter but as soon as I was in the environment with the girls it was so natural to me I realized it's within me it's part of who I am so rather than trying to become these things just realize I'm all of these things and that's something I wanted to reflect in the album and in the imagery of the album as well so it was just that real celebration of you know of the whole self and accepting all aspects of yourself the good and some not so good I'm not going to say bad I'm just going to say not so good I think that's lovely and I think some people actually never really feel they get to that

point so we you shouldn't beat yourself up for when you're saying, you know, why is it taking me till now? Because I think that's a really magnificent thing to achieve in anybody's life. Yeah, it is. It's amazing, isn't it? And I think as women, and I've said this many, many times, we are so hard on ourselves, you know? And our internal dialogue, we speak to ourselves in a way

we would never dare speak to another human being. Why we do that you know we should be the person we take care of the most and um it's it's a really tough discipline but if you can get into that habit it's you know it's life-changing do you think having the terms that you did in the band was sort of like had equal points of good and not so good. I mean, as it goes, I think when you said, you know, am I still sporty, Spice? I think being sporty is something you can probably hold on to a lot easier into later life than some of the other things you might have been called.

So at least, you know, sporty is always a good thing. It's about health and well-being, isn't it? But I was thinking a bit about that time in the early noughties where there was a sort of association not you know it preceded um the Spice Girls you know even with someone like Madonna you know I know we both think is brilliant but she was always very very strong and always looked physically very strong and it was always seen as a sort of slightly um masculine trait you know it wasn't necessarily seen as a celebration of feminine strength I think I think things have shifted quite a lot now definitely because now

you know we'd see women in sportswear you know as as everyday outfits and being strong in yourself and wanting to have muscle definition and look strong and capable like that is now every young girl sees that as something to yeah I think it's really interesting how that her like body image and what you know is aspirational has changed because like when back in the 90s you know it was the time of heroin chic and you know everyone was all what terrible thing we think that I know it's crazy isn't it when you know when you're a kid and you look back over decades and there's certain aspects of culture in those decades

that you can't believe it was like that. But now when you look back to the 90s, yeah, there was that. And I look back over old, you know, not a lot because it's quite soul-destroying, but sometimes when you look back over old articles, for whatever reason, you know, something comes up on Twitter and you happen to see it. And some of the language that was used in the tabloid media in the 90s, they would never do that now.

I totally agree. Yeah. So it's wonderful that there's been these positive changes. But yeah, it's crazy, like within our lifetime, something that now we feel, I mean, in many, you know, different aspects, there are many things are like, wow, I can't believe that that was deemed acceptable at that time um but yeah I've loved seeing the change um you know people really

embracing all body shapes and obviously you know I've always been quite sporty quite muscular um for that to be um something which is celebrated now is really good to see yeah and actually when you're talking that made me think about the recent documentary on Britney Spears, who obviously would have been around at the same time as the Spice Girls, but she was on her own with that. I mean, looking back, that's actually... I mean, you talked a lot about with the girls

how actually being part of that team and that family, it does kind of give you a place to stand within that. But if you're on your own in that it must have been in that time when that language was used i mean looking back yeah it's i i did actually find an old box of articles the other day i mean obviously nothing like anything you've experienced but my my early band i signed my first deal in 97 so all the first stuff i was just quite horrified by what i was reading and how things the questions I was being asked yeah because no wonder I built up quite a wall around myself it was a really scary I felt quite interrogated and um I think because women were trying to sort of it was the time of a

girly show and stuff like this so you were they were trying to recalibrate um how to be an independent woman but also you're supposed to be able to like really keep up with the lads and banter and they almost wanted to sort of knock knock you a bit like can you take this yeah can you take that what about if i push you in this direction it was quite intense time i do i think you're right i don't think any of that stuff would happen now which is really good and especially good at a time when your daughter's about to head into the teenage bit as well don't worry it goes slow. I remember when my father, he's just 17 now, my eldest, and when he turned 13, I remember thinking,

oh, it's great because you're basically the same as you were last week. But then I think between 14 and 16 is the bit where I had to work really hard on that relationship. And I wouldn't say I'm an expert. I've got to do this four more times, remember, with the next boys coming up. So you will be by the end. I don't know, I just feel like I'm an expert. I've got to do this four more times, remember, with the next voice coming up. So you will be by the end. I don't know. I always feel like I'm getting experience but not expertise.

It's not quite the same thing. But I do think that a good bit of advice is probably just to persevere with, I'm sure you do it anyway, but just keeping them coming, you know, being there at meal times, keeping the conversation open and uh golly it is hard they don't want to be speaking to you about stuff but they really need

you I feel in a way they need you more than ever in the teenage bit yeah I think someone said to me recently it's about them knowing you're there yeah maybe rather than being in their face yeah just know that you are there to support them because I think you know you would hope as a parent you've stood them in good stead yeah you know and then you have to trust them yeah to go out there and you know what they're gonna make mistakes we all did absolutely and you know fingers crossed well actually I think you're right when you say that they you know they're smart about things and they're the expert stuff because actually one really good tip I I took on for someone else wow that is a noisy um when you said about trusting them I've done that sometimes

when when Sonny and my eldest first started going on the internet a lot I was quite freaked out because the internet feels a bit wild west but sometimes when I found myself in a situation where I thought I don't you know I'm worried I'd go to him and I'd say these are all the things that I'm worried about but I know you know more than me about this so can you just tell me why I don't need to worry about those things anymore and just reassure me and actually by letting him lead me it really helped both of us rather than going in and going I just want to kind of smash everything up that's electric and take all your technology away yeah no that's that's such a good way of looking at it actually because i mean i think they feel frustrated with us as well don't

because we don't understand because i don't know every single youtuber or tiktoker's name i'm a fool um so yeah getting them to lead that's a really good although it's probably quite nice we don't know they'd be unnerved if we knew all the tiktoker people how horrible would that be oh have you checked out the latest i have to hear about all their lives though which is excruciatingly boring i know there's so much of that though that goes on i mean i've got a couple of really chatty kids and it's a bit like having a radio on again and mummy do you know and we'll be talking about this thing and i just hope i'm giving the right responses at the right point i mean there's a lot of information there there's a phase with the children definitely where

you just switch off, zone out definitely I've done loads of that, my word did you always want to be a mum? yeah I did, I think because I was so driven in my career I didn't think too much about it but I knew I wanted to be a mum

and I really wanted a daughter and when Scarlett was born I was so like it was such a crazy labour and I was so convinced I was convinced I was having a boy because I think I was like mentally preparing myself

and then when she came out I heard it's a boy and I thought ah it's a boy and then she was a girl I was like huh and I think I just had way too many drugs I was going to say did someone just get it wrong or no one said it's a boy and I thought oh it's a boy and then she was a girl I was like huh and I think I just had way too many drugs did someone just get it wrong or no one said it's a boy that's just I just convinced myself um but yeah but I got my little girl and I haven't had and I you know I

don't think I'm a bit old now but I don't think I'll have any more children so I'm happy I got my girl why do you think it was important to you that you wanted a girl is that because of how you felt with your mum do you think I think important to you that you wanted a girl? Is that because of how you felt with your mum, do you think? I think so. I think because of that relationship with my mum. Yeah, it's so strong and it's so important to me. And, yeah, do you know what? It's funny because I've got so many brothers.

I have a half-sister. I have three half-brothers and two step-brothers. So I was always around lots of boys. And I just wanted my little girl. So when you had your first sibling, half-sibling, how old were you then? I think I was seven or eight. Oh, God, really similar to me. I had my first when I was eight. My little brother Jackson and I was obsessed with him.

I used to look after him all the time. Is that on your mum's side or your dad's side? That's my mum's. Okay, yeah, same. And then I've got younger brothers. My dad married a bit later, so my youngest brother, I don't think he's 30 yet. And now you've also got I suppose a sort of slight step-parent role as well with your boyfriend's kids as well yeah which is really

hard I found that really really tricky I didn't think that would be as hard as it is actually and I have step-parents um you know so I think you do have your your own you know memories of of having a step-parent as well so it's just trying to navigate who you are as a step parent I think yeah that is really actually because it's not it's not a parent role well it's parental but you're not trying to replace a parent and that's quite a hard place to yeah that's what I found the most important thing because and also because you don't want to tread on toes it's hard how old were they then is that is that two did you say yeah yeah so they're

12 and 15 now um we've been together for seven years so um yeah you do the math so did you say 12 and 15 so eight and five yeah oh yeah that is tricky it's funny i didn't really think about it like that actually how you've got to sort of position yourself as someone who can be responsible and still set boundaries but not but also respect what already exists. But then maybe having step-parents kind of helps navigate that a bit because you know what you liked and what you didn't like from your own step-parents. Yeah, I think it gives you a little bit of, what's the word? It gives you some, oh, I can't think what the word is.

You know, if you're having a dispute with the kid, it's quite good you can chuck at them, look, I've got a step-mom, I know what it's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, common ground. with the kid it's quite good you can chuck at them look i've got a stepmom i know what it's like yeah yeah common ground yeah so that's quite good but the other thing that i've had to navigate is a bit of guilt actually because i think being the child or the stepchild of somebody in the public eye can sometimes be a burden yeah so that's i suppose a good way to approach it is probably just taking things really slowly, actually. Not trying to rush into any quick... Yeah, I didn't meet my boyfriend's kids until we'd been together for a year.

Oh, really? God, that first meeting must have been quite a thing. I was petrified. And my friend said to me, they're just kids. I was like, yeah. But it really matters what they think. And they're going to be really honest.

Yeah. My step-mom still reminds me sometimes that I wasn't always um she said I used to come in and if she was watching telly I'd turn it off and go that's my telly I don't actually remember doing that but apparently I did so sorry about that um and do you think you're the sort of mum you thought you would be um I think we all have these hopes and dreams of being super mum don't we like you know baking cookies while, you know, the child's, like, looking angelic going out the door. But I think... I don't know how I was going to be as a mum.

I just wanted to have a good relationship, which, you know, which we do. You know, we're close. And, yeah, I think I pretty much am what I would have expected. Yeah, and it's quite a two-way street because you can have the idea of who you might be, but you don't know who they are yet, and they're the other half of the relationship, so... That was my biggest surprise.

When I was pregnant, I thought, I'm going to have this beautiful baby, they're going to look into my eyes, we're going to have this connection. And then she was born, and I just thought, who's that? Because they just are this new creation you know this new person and they're so formed you know when they you know those personalities are already there aren't they very you know immediately almost I actually felt exactly the same way when I first saw Sunny and I thought oh you're who you are and you just happen to be a baby when we meet. Yeah. It was crazy.

I could almost get a sense of him. It was like I just had to sort of help him on the way to being who he is now. Yeah. Kind of, you're really more like accessory in some ways. Oh, I must tell you this, because I think you'll like this. When my daughter was really little,

she said to me once, Mummy, I chose you, which I loved. And I've asked her as she's got older, you know, you used to say to me mummy I chose you and she said yeah I did and she would still say that now how old was she when she was saying that then first I think she's probably about three or four yeah wow but I think I asked him you know a couple of years ago and she said I did god that's really beautiful I wonder where she got

that kind that's quite a precocious thing to say as well isn't it that's lovely you know like it's almost like she's got a sort of extra wisdom. Yeah, and like our children, you know, were meant for us or, you know, it was all a plan. Oh, that's really lovely. Yeah. That's really special. It sounds like your relationship is really lovely and quite a, you know, that's sort of at the heart of your life, really.

And do you think that was a big help in getting you to come to terms with all the other stuff as well? Yeah, I think it's definitely helped me in that way. You know, I don't want to make it sound like it's a cure-all because, you know, there are moments, there are difficult times, but yeah, she's been a catalyst for lots of good stuff. Oh, that's lovely.

Yeah. I want to know if you remembered the first time we met. It wasn't like a really big meeting, but in 2000 when I released Groove Jet on the same day as Victoria and then it had gone to number one and then there was a movie premiere, the first movie premiere I'd ever, ever been to. And I didn't understand that at movie premieres

people drive along the red carpet and get dropped off at the main bit of the cinema. So I'd probably like got the tube there or something and I was trotting along the red carpet on my own and then your car stopped and you put your window down and shook my hand do you remember that I thought that was really sweet I do and it's so funny because it crossed my mind this morning when I was getting ready to come and see you yeah but um yeah they were funny weren't they? All the Spice Girls were releasing solo records. And, you know, and your record is out. I think, did we even do Top of the Pops, maybe, around the same time?

Yeah, yeah, I think we could have done that, yeah. But I do remember that. Do you, yeah. It really meant a lot to me, though, so thank you for that. Because I found the whole thing really intimidating. And I never had anything about... I was really trying to keep my feet on the ground and like not get too pulled into this press thing of having i've even at the time i thought it was quite sexist that they'd sort of done two women opposing each other um and i didn't

want to get dragged into it but at the same time i did find it really intense and during the week that groove jet came out uh the manager i'd had at the time stopped working with me on so the song came out on monday he stopped working on tuesday i wasn't signed to the record company that groove jet came out with so i was basically without a rave without a manager so i felt i had like my mouth was filled with ulcers i remember that weekend so thank you for your kindness oh well i'm so pleased that's very sweet of you oh you see you never know what's going on in someone's life, do you? You know, that was such a big week for you.

It was. You know, number one single. You would think, wow, she must be like, you know, walking on air. And you must have felt really vulnerable, actually. And in limbo as well. I think I was just trying to take it all in because I knew it was really extraordinary, the sort of heat around it.

And I thought, I've just got to try and remember this as a very cartoony experience. And also, no matter what, that song was still going to be the biggest success I'd ever been part of. So I just thought, I just want to remember that. Yeah, just enjoy it. Exactly, just enjoy it, yeah. Tune out. Funny, thank you. Funny old time.

Do you remember what the movie was because i don't i do because it basically um it was a film called snatch actually okay and i i remember thinking it was like it was quite um i don't think i thought i think i thought it was all right but it was like the what was the one he done lock stock and lock stock was great that was really good and then snatch wasn't as good and i it was the moment where I thought, I don't think I'm going to go to a lot of premieres because just by turning up, you've already endorsed the film, but you haven't even seen it.

I thought it's easy just to go to the pictures. You're smart. You're smart. Yeah, I never go to premieres anymore. Obviously, there hasn't been any. But if someone goes, oh, would you like to come around to this? I go, ah, I can't be bothered.

Exactly. It's so much easier just to go to the pictures. And also, they have a better selection. You get, like, more sweets than popcorn. And you never get popcorn. Exactly. I know. So there's, yeah, loads of benefits.

All the listeners are going, oh, listen to you, too. I know. I don't want to go to a premiere. The other thing I want, you probably do know this about yourself. Do you know your really good answer in a pub quiz about uh the only person to have had a number one as a solo artist in a duo in a quartet and a quintet yeah that's a good one yeah I think there's another one now isn't it a collective a collective as well but yeah I need a tree I like that I've

been corrected on the pub quiz you missed one out yeah I don't know if that's official official um but yeah I was part of a collective that went to number one but um yeah my trio eludes me actually I was thinking you me and Claire could do well there you go um it's been so lovely to talk to you and I think I think you've done an amazing I really felt very you really get from the album you put out last year a real sense of celebration of where you're at and I think it's such a wonderful thing to get to that point I mean I can't I can't imagine what it must have been like to be in the Spice Girls it's not just like being a massive in a massive band there's so many things that were connected.

And Spice Girls World was so much part of a cultural moment. And I think that's why... I don't know anyone that doesn't have an affectionate feeling towards that. But that doesn't mean it's always an easy thing to be part of. Absolutely. So I can't wait for you to perform your stuff live. I think it's going to be incredible. With an actual audience.

I know. Well, you're going out as well, I saw. Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait. I think I'm going to cry every night. I know. Well, you're going out as well, I saw. Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait. So exciting times. I think I'm going to cry every night. Yeah. I think I'll just be stood there like, this is so nice.

I think it will be really emotional, yeah, for the audience and for everyone on stage. So, well, thank you for having me. Not at all. It's been lovely having a good old chat. Absolutely. Nice cup of tea. Got to get to work on our app as well, our Apron Strings app. Yeah, Apron Strings.

We've got the app. Let's get a number one app and the number one song for the trio sorted oh so lovely how nice is melanie c so wise uh very um oh that's a very noisy motorbike it's okay mickey it's just a motorbike i'll push you but the swing is wet uh yeah she was so so smart about life she's she's learned a lot along the path of you know navigating the the success the new solo career the nerves of the west end, motherhood, body image, all those big things. It seems in a really good place. So that's lovely. And who have I got for you next week? I know I don't normally tell you, but I'm very confident about the one I'm going to

put out next week. It's going to be with the former Danish Prime Minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt. Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt. She is the first Danish woman to be Prime Minister. She was Prime Minister from, I think, oh, brain, testing my brain. I'm going to say 2012 to 2015. Might have got that totally wrong. I shouldn't have been so bold as to embark on dates, but it's around that time.

And she was completely lovely. I found her one of those women where you felt like she had such clarity with how she saw the world such pragmatism and clarity and optimism i thought you know i'll join your gang if you make a gang i think actually all this the podcast guests would make a good gang i've got to try and push my two-year-old on a wet swing now all right mickey you're not gonna like ityear-old on a wet swing now. All right, Mickey, you're not going to like it. You're going to get a wet bum. On that bombshell, remember the jingle. Spin series four, oh, oh, oh. Spinning plates.

See, it's a good one. We're on to something. Mickey, say thank you for coming back. Thank you for coming back. Good to have your ears again. Thank you, guys. See you next week. Take care. On each step with Peloton, from their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner.

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