Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 41: Binky Felstead

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Binky Felstead made her name on Made In Chelsea back in 2009, leaving 8 years later, just after she'd had her daughter India.  Binky told me how being a reality TV star gave her huge anxiety but how becoming a mum to India was the best thing that ever happened to her. Now she's just got married to the dad of her new - and very well-behaved - baby, Wolfie, who mostly slept through our podcast interview this week. We talked about Binky's new venture Bloss Life - a yellow pages of credible experts for parents. And she happily shared that has never been as content as she is now.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello. How are you?

Oh my god, you're looking really well. And yes, that is the sound of me filling my dishwasher as I speak to you, because I'm an absolute idiot. And I just, I don't know why I did that. I'm going to walk away from dishwasher. It wasn't a cool way to start a podcast. Honestly, good to see you again. And thank you for coming back to the plate spinning that goes on around here. And no doubt in your lives too. and how have you been how is life how's everything been treating you in the last or what's it been five weeks I think since the last episode came out uh the last episode finished with uh this is our series finished with Dr Catherine Green of the AstraZeneca vaccine who actually I had COVID while I was talking to her.

And I did say to her, thank you so much. You've made me not so sick I can't speak to you. So that's a good thing, isn't it? Oh, bloody hell, there's a doorbell. This was a silly idea. This is going to be on my children, isn't it? I don't know why I did this at half past four. This was a silly idea.

Oh, hi there. Thank you. No, not my kids. don't know why I did this at half past four this is a silly idea oh hi there thank you no not my kids amazon and not even for me for Richard I think there needs to be a word of like a way of describing word for when you accept a package and then realize it's not for you it's for someone else that's sort of package disappointment anyway so this series I'm actually I don't know if you can pick up I'm feeling a little bit smug because I've already recorded loads which is a lovely feeling because sometimes I'm chasing my tail a little bit but no I've got at least I've got over half the series already recorded with amazing guests. Again, very, very diverse. Everything from

an Indian sex coach to an Australian comedian. Yes. And we're starting off the series with somebody that I really enjoy talking to. And full disclosure, I did not know the thing that she's most well known for so I spoke to Binky Falstead and Binky is um she sort of became a household name through being in Made in Chelsea for I think she said eight years and I didn't actually watch Made in Chelsea but I didn't I was aware of her name and as I said to her it's a lovely lyrical name and I was introduced to her through her new project so she's launched something called Bloss Life which is as she describes it as sort of yellow pages for parenting lots of advice and expert advice and sort of

trusted sounding boards for all sorts of issues you might have with your child raising and advice you might need and uh access to yeah experts who can tell you everything from sort of sleep training to getting pregnant to probably well actually everything it's all the way up to 18 so yeah children of 18 that is and yeah we spoke about that and also about excuse me for my croaky voice about sort of discovering your and confirming your potential in your 30s because I think Binky felt for a long time that maybe she didn't really know exactly what her potential was and that I don't know I suppose through Maiden Chelsea she felt a little bit undersold maybe but also didn't think she was particularly academic or capable of doing much and now finds herself a businesswoman in her 30s and I think that kind of

thing's really cool and actually I did think maybe a lot of us feel that way where you kind of come out of school and have a very set idea about your limitations in terms of where your strengths and weaknesses are and part of getting older and the like so probably during my 30s actually was realizing the joy of discovering I can do new things and you're gonna think this is a bit ridiculous but doing Strictly was a bit part of that because I did Strictly come dancing when I was 34 and it was the first time since school really I'd actually properly learned a new skill and okay yes that skill was Paso Doe Blades and Viennese Waltzes but hey still something new that I couldn't do before and I thought wow maybe I kind of underestimate my ability to actually apply myself and do new that I couldn't do before. And I thought, wow, maybe I kind of underestimate my ability

to actually apply myself and do new things. I'm probably telling you what you already know. I mean, one of my best friends has just qualified as a therapist, you know, in her 40s, which she wasn't doing before. But still, I think, you know, it's interesting when women have that realisation about themselves. Anyway, characteristic waffling on. You don't need that from me.

Let's get on with the chat. And I will see you on the other side. And you know what I'm going to say? Yep. Kettle. White with one. See you in a bit. So I'm trying to think where we start. We are here at, well, you know what? I'm trying to think where we start. We are here at, well, you know what? I'm going to start by saying you've had a really busy year. Yes. Like crazy busy. Yes. The year's not done yet.

No. So we've had, I'm trying to do them in the right order. Baby marriage business? Baby business marriage. I'm it. Yeah. Almost got it. Almost got it.

So the business really stemmed from baby number two. My co-founder Steph also was pregnant at the same time. And we have had very different experiences with our kids. She's got three, and I've obviously got two. And I mean, Steph had to go through IVF for her first. I didn't have that we've all you know every child is so different and that's what we're talking about and we couldn't find anywhere that you could basically like like losses now it's like a yellow pages for um credible experts from trying to conceive through to your kids I mean 18 leaving the house or you starting school. So we basically wanted to be that one resource, trustworthy resource that everyone could come to.

Which is brilliant. I should point out as well, Steph is not too far with us. Yeah, she's just currently trying to soothe. Soothe Wolfie. Three-month-old Wolfie. Three-month-old Wolfie. He should be sleeping now, but I'm thinking he's testing us a little bit. He's pushing us.

But he did sleep from 7pm to 7am, so I'm very happy with him this morning. Yeah, I'm thinking he's he's testing us a little bit he's pushing us but he did sleep from uh 7 p.m to 7 a.m so I'm very happy with him this morning yeah I'm impressed with him too and I want him to immediately have a world with my two girls like he was not asleep until about half 10 last night goodness well I've got India's I think I deserve it after India she was a bit of tricky sleeper so what was actually going on in your life when you had your first baby so she's four now she's four India's four um I was on Made in Chelsea and um basically decided to leave the show when I was about to pop so I did my last scene which was my baby shower and um I just felt it was kind of I was kind of done with Made in Chelsea anyway it was lots I was on there since I was 20 1920 so a good eight years and I'd grown out of it I've grown out of the no the bitching

and the kind of everything that else happened it gave me anxiety towards the end I just felt like I you know I'm having a baby it's time for me to grow up now and I very happily left um and then you know as we all know kind of the mummy community is so humongous and I learned a lot or you know I made lots of friends through um that and sorry and actually I think out of all the interviews I've done for the podcast it's the first time there's been a baby in the room. Oh, really? Yeah. So it's really nice. I've been waiting to meet a bubba.

He'll definitely be chatting, I'm sure, a lot. I'm happy with that. Hopefully just not screaming. But yeah, Steph and I, we became really close because our four-year-olds were literally a few weeks apart. And we had this little wild mummy group that we started up and do you know what I've never been happier I feel like yes I had my fun growing up did all partying and etc but I feel now so content with my life more than ever and I'm just with my friendship group my my little routine obviously I've married someone incredible who

has been the most incredible stepfather to India. I mean, you would never know that. I mean, he's known her for over half her life. He met her when she was one. And I'm just really content and happy now. And I think that is, you know, partly to do with having such an amazing mummy crowd around me. And so how did you find that mummy crowd? Because when you had your first baby, did you have many friends that were having babies? No, I was the first of my friendship group.

I think that's because you're in your late 20s right yeah I was I was 27 26 when I got pregnant and I literally had no one to speak to um it was quite daunting obviously I was watching all my friends going out and wearing crop tops and little skirts and I just felt oh my god and it was the middle of like it was June so it's hot. And I just felt so gross. Didn't have my identity. Didn't know who I was. And no one really understood, obviously, because they couldn't. They hadn't had any kids.

And that's when I'd met kind of the older, slightly older crowd, like so Steph and our other wild mummy groups. We all became friends on WhatsApp. So how did you meet them then? We just went to school. No, so you'd known then. just so i knew no and then yeah so there's a there's one of the girls who's a mutual friend of all of us and she set up the whatsapp whatsapp group and then um we were kind of sort of going out and it wasn't really mummy chat it

was lots of kind of just silly it was more having a few drinks and you know complaining about our you know partners or god knows what it was just fun it wasn't like we needed that forum actually it wasn't we were not too um we would laugh that we're not too kind of mumsy mumsy in our in our group we're kind of just more having a bit of fun we just have fun and actually let off some steam eventually well it's friendship isn't it because actually someone said that to me when i had my first they were like the people you actually end up spending most time with yes you have in common that you've got kids yeah but actually you need more on top than just the fact you've got kids you know there's more that chat runs out pretty quickly

has anyone else been awake since 3am yeah oh yeah no the casual stuff yeah but actually the friendship yeah and it's more solid stuff going out together and it was just a really lovely group yeah well I really identify as well with what you're saying about feeling really on the outside of things when you're pregnant because I had a similar thing um yes with my first and I didn't have any girlfriends that having babies and I just felt I felt like I'd sort of fallen off the outside of something a little bit and my girlfriends were still continuing on the same trajectory um and so you know if we'd meet for dinner and they would be like, I don't know, half an hour late,

I'd be sitting there thinking, I could have read the second, you know, another bedtime story if I'd known I had an extra half hour at home. But obviously no one else is really thinking about that. And also pregnancy clothes. I just didn't know what the hell to do with all that. And I really wore some really odd things. I didn't. I gave up. I completely gave up. I mean, annoyingly,

I was being filmed for the last bit of my pregnancy and the early postpartum. And I just, I mean, I look like I've just come through a hedge backwards. And I just didn't care. I didn't care there was a camera in my face. I didn't care. I was just like, I'm just so tired. Just everyone leave the house now.

Get these cameras away from me. I don't want to see another camera for ages. And I mean mean it's it's very apparent on the show um but of course I had that and I also had you know I lost a lot of friends as well I remember there was one um it was a friend of mine's birthday and we were in a whatsapp group and it was late it was like you know coming up to the time I should be getting ready and going out I just remember being in the garden India just had gone down I was exhausted and I saw these messages going back and forth saying so girls get your highest heels ready get your tightest dresses on I've got the selfie mirror

the selfie light ready and I literally looked at my phone I just like I'm not going I can't go I'm just there's no way I want to get my tightest dress on I'll get my highest heels I can't even wear heels anymore and I don't have any dresses that fit I just messaged her saying that I'm just, there's no way I want to get my tightest dress on or get my highest heels on. I can't even wear heels anymore. And I don't have any dresses that fit. I just messaged her saying, like, I'm really sorry. I'm not going to be able to make it tonight. And she lost it with me. And we hadn't spoken for about two years.

And only recently has she come to me and said, I'm really sorry. I didn't realise what you were going through. Wow. Yeah, so that kind of happened a lot as well. And I just, but to be honest, I was happy with that. I don't think, I think my real friends stuck. and then I made a bunch of really brilliant new ones so it didn't really bother me in the end but it's it's quite as you know it's quite an isolating time isn't it definitely the first I definitely felt that and I was thinking you're talking actually it's interesting because we can talk a lot about when you know when you have your second

and how the first child deals with that rivalry but actually maybe sometimes friends can have that too when your life is going in a different direction and it's very scary for them yeah yeah don't leave me behind you know or should I be doing that yeah there's a lot of questions about your own life and these things are always more about the person who gets you know annoyed about it rather than whatever you're doing absolutely in your own in your own space really yeah yeah and I think I think yeah it can be really isolating and I think it's interesting that friendships don't always move with that change and it sounds great that you met this new group on whatsapp so that you still had a place to kind of talk about the things that all you're all going through and the funny the funny thing is now that all my friends

are now having babies and they're coming to me for advice and um which is brilliant of course I'm more than happy to but it's funny how they're like oh my god I can't believe this was you back then you know having your first and yeah well now you can be like not only have I got some experience but I've actually set you up an actual yellow pages to answer all your needs this is it this is it I just sent everyone to blast now most generous friend ever and I suppose I was thinking as well because it must be very different having a baby when you know that you're going to be getting married to the father of your baby very soon it's like a big sort of happily ever after and a new beginning all at once yeah and do you look back and feel can you see the sort of comparisons with that with your first as well yeah I mean I never really talk about um that

really only because for India's sake of course but I am so um with maths I knew immediately I think we both knew pretty quickly I mean it we've taken two years. I mean, it's coming up to our third year anniversary. So we haven't, we didn't, it wasn't particularly long, but we knew, when we knew, we knew. And I think having a little one and a half year old in the mix sped things up an awful lot. Yeah. It was going to, you know, it was either going to make or break.

Do you know what I mean? He had to accept her. And if he didn't, then that was never going to work. And the fact he took her and absolutely sees her like his own it's just I mean I'm so lucky I never thought I was do you know I never thought it would happen that quickly because I wasn't looking for a relationship I was really content and happy for the first time I felt myself for the first time my friend it was my friend's 30th at Soho Farmhouse she'd had a big party on the Saturday and he was there at a separate friend's 30th and they had the big party on the Saturday and he was there at a separate friend's 30th.

And they had the big party on the Saturday. I remember she said, right, come on Sunday morning, get in the car. So I arranged childcare for India. I hadn't really left him much before that point. And I said to mummy in the car, do you know what, I'm just not going to go. I can't be bothered.

I'm so tired. Like, what's the point going on a Sunday? You know, she's like, please just go. You know, you'll never know who you're going to meet. And he just, you're going to on a sunday you know she's like please just go you know you'll you never know who you're going to meet and he just you're gonna have some fun have a few picantes and have some fun i was like okay fine so i did i got in the car drove there had a lovely lunch and then ordering my 10th picante at the bar in the evening and this man comes up comes up to me and says hi so who are you what do you do and? And I literally just said, I'm a mum, expecting him to run away.

That's the first thing I said. He was like, okay, cool. And, and then we got chatting and chatting. And that was it, literally. I think I actually ignored him for a month after, because he asked for my number and I ignored him. I thought, I just don't want to have anything. I'm not interested. I can't, I can't think about this now. And then I went to my mum's house in the country and we sat down having a bottle of red wine by the fire and she she said so tell me about this boy you met you know you've mentioned him a couple of times and I and I said oh I can't see his Instagram because he's private but then she said let me have a look and so you know and I looked and it was some bizarre reason he'd taken it off private so I could see all his photos and I know it's so silly saying that but

you do get a lot no it's really helpful and I saw a video really helpful I can't really remember and then I saw this video of him singing um Bob Marley's song with his dad in the car and I just looked at that video I was like oh my god he's really sweet his dad and him singing like Bob Marley's song you know everything's gonna be all right and I just thought I showed mummy she's like oh my god he's gorgeous please reply to his message so that day I just thought, I showed mummy, she's like, oh my God, he's gorgeous. Please reply to his message. So that day I said, okay, cool,

let's go for a drink. And that was that. And so happily, happy since. I mean, yeah. Oh, that's lovely.

And I would say as well, as someone who ended up having a stepdad in my life from when I was about six, did you, that it's a really, it can be a really, really special thing. And I would definitely credit my stepdad has been someone who raised me. So yeah, I think that's really wonderful really special thing. And I would definitely credit my stepdad as being someone who raised me.

So, yeah, I think that's really wonderful. And also, I love Bacchantes. Oh, my God. They're a really delicious cocktail. They're the best. So, for those uninitiated, they're basically like a margarita. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, with a bit of that syrup, sweet syrup. Oh, they're so good.

Very, very good. Yeah. They make you feel really good as well. They don't make you, I don't think they make me too hungover. No. Tequila base, isn't it? Yes good I don't think maybe too hungover no tequila base isn't it yeah yes yes I don't know do you get the hang of it well no I don't actually but I don't think I've really pushed it more than maybe two your tenth is really I take your word for it listen I was I was it was my first night out another picture please thank you um but I was thinking as well when you said when you said you know hello and you said I'm a mum yeah um because obviously up until that point with

I mean it sounds like the end of Made in Chelsea was really signifying so so much I mean what did you think you were did you have ideas about what you wanted to be doing for yourself or had you not really got to that point yet I've never so I was never going to be a rocket scientist or a mathematician I didn't do very well at school I was more arty than you know I'm just I'm switched on I'm not academic and I never really had one passion um but the show obviously gave me a platform to work with amazing people and to help get them out there. And Instagram was still fairly new back then as well. I know, I was thinking that. It was more Twitter when I was on the show.

So this was like 2010, are we talking? Oh, God, yeah. Something like that. So in 2017, she was born. Yeah, so if you said you'd done it for eight years by then. Yeah. So, okay, 2009. Yeah, so it was Twitter and then it got into Instagram.

Yeah, well, the internet was actually, as we know now, it was 2005 when it started. But this rise of things like influencers and this kind of stuff would really have been pretty much in tandem with when you started

on the show yeah it was but the only other show I can relate it to was Only Wears Essex that was the only two shows and obviously that came from

The Hills you know Orange County I can't remember the other one in America yes yeah that's what they that's where it all started so i mean for me i mean my my my family called a massive family meeting when i was when i was um asked to join the show my brother was like she's not doing it she can't be doing this it's ridiculous it's gonna embarrass us my mom was like actually she's

gonna be absolutely fine she can do this and she said go ahead enjoy it you know live your life and I don't think I embarrassed them too much maybe myself a few times but it was actually do you know what it was it was really good fun and um I loved it and you know since so I didn't really have a I mean I tried to have a job I tried to pin down a job for as a receptionist but I was an awful one um terrible terrible then and then and then I had and eventually they said listen you've got to go because you can't keep filming and then doing this at the same time late every morning so I did try and keep my job for as long as possible but didn't last I got fired and then um I was just awful and then um and then obviously having India like I said it kind of this mummy community opened up so I did I started a company which was kind of like um kind of it was more a retreat

based company where I'd met um you know trainers and sleep therapists etc etc what was that my phone sorry and um and yeah that's how I've kind of started helping them get a profile. And I was learning so much as well. And we used to have these dinners in the evening where we'd kind of sit down with a psychotherapist and she'd be kind of explaining what happened to her. She had severe, massive anxiety and post-natal depression and the thoughts that used to come into her,

intrusive thoughts that used to come into her head. So she is now a psychotherapist and she became a psychotherapist because she was having, she had post-natal depression and she would be driving her car on a motorway and really vividly imagine just throwing the car, turning the steering wheel into the barrier and just killing her and her family and her kids. She just said it was horrific because obviously i love my kids but i just used to think oh my god i could just lose control just like that and kill everyone and i actually spoke to another psychotherapist um who had exactly the same but she really didn't like her daughter as a baby and she would just imagine she said oh i could just kill her if I just drive into this part of the wall

and she'd be dead. And she said, you can't explain it, you know, because you love them, but it's just these, sometimes it's just, you know, I don't have them like that. I've had them where I have been driving the motorway and thought, oh my God,

if I just lost control of the car, we'd all be dead. And that would really start me panicking and get me into an anxiety attack. But these are women that have obviously studied it and they say it's actually very normal. It's very common to think that. Yeah, I think it is more common than we would probably understand

because it's such a taboo to vocalise that. Yes, of course. And it's not something that it can run alongside um the maternal bond you know the love you have your kids all the stuff that you should be feeling but yeah and i think for people that haven't experienced intrusive thoughts it's not just a sort of a flicker of oh if i did that i mean it's sometimes I think everybody when they're first responsible for a child and it doesn't even have to be your kid if you're you know babysitting whatever you're suddenly you have those moments don't you where you're aware of the power you have yes and you know even sometimes in social situations you know

you'll think you know if someone gives you their like their new baby you think yeah I could just drop it yeah just drop this baby and part of your brain kind of follows through a tiny but it's not in a kind of i might do it it's not a nasty no it's not you being nasty or horrible no it's just awareness that's why it's called intrusive you don't want these thoughts no they're happening yeah and i think it's and it's obviously really scary people and that's where i learned so much when i had my first company that i had no idea about and choose to thought so I was like oh my god yeah I've I've definitely been driving the motorway and thought oh my god I could just I could my hand could just slip and my wheel would go right into that barrier and oh my goodness that would just be horrific yeah um

but I found it absolutely fascinating when she was talking. And also just even generally about, you know, life at home, husbands. We used to have women opening up about how they really didn't like their husbands and how they've actually, we had a couple of women burst into tears and walk around the field and be like, right, okay, I've got to make a decision now. Because actually everyone would be like yeah well that's really normal I feel like that as well and then and then some people would be like I'm so glad you feel like that and other women would feel the opposite but like right I've actually got to get start get rid of him now and start afresh and so it was very it was really open and honest and I

think and I everyone used to come away from those retreats and just be like you've actually changed my life like I wouldn't have thought or they didn't realize they were suffering from postnatal depression so they'd have a one-on-one session with our therapist after yeah yeah that's really interesting I guess you know you've mentioned quite a lot of being open and honest and how it's obviously been a really good um tool for you throughout your life yeah um and it made me think about when you were very open about a miscarriage that you had last year yeah well I thought maybe the the whole thing about parenting and how it's shifting because it's definitely changed a lot since I was first

yeah a mother it's just actually we're just a lot better at encouraging those those difficult conversations yeah well I mean you know I believe it's one in four women that do have a misc supper from miscarriages and it's actually that's a lot isn't it and I remember my mum saying to me we just never really talked about it we never really knew about it because no one ever spoke about it I didn't really understand that because I mean they say not to tell friends or family you're pregnant until you get the safe 12-week check scan but I mean, they say not to tell friends or family you're pregnant until you get the safe 12-week check, scan. But, I mean, Max and I felt we could talk about it when we had, you know, before the miscarriage, we were telling, you know, a little bit soon, but we were kind of telling people and getting excited about it.

And then, actually, when we did have the miscarriage, it was horrific. We were obviously in bits, but we said, I'm really glad we did tell people because those people could talk to us and make us, you know, we could talk to them and they could counsel us a little bit and make us feel better. And if it had just been our little secret, I mean, we'd have felt so lonely.

Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't have been that nice. I think all those things are very personal, but I totally get what you mean. Yeah. I mean, obviously, some people choose not to and that's absolutely fine as well. But for us, we're glad we did speak about it.

And especially when I did put that post on Instagram. Oh my goodness, I still have people messaging me now saying, thank you so much. I've just had a miscarriage or, you know, today I've just started bleeding. And thank you for sharing that you've had a baby and you know that you have got past that and you never forget but you know I've got Wolfie now and here's my real rainbow baby and and and it's just I don't want people to feel like that's only happened it's only happened to them they can talk about it yeah yeah well I suppose it's very easy to look into the world and just see lots of happy content people walking around with their buggies I remember I remember going because we it was our it was our third scan because I started

bleeding and obviously I kind of felt this isn't right and we had a because we got a private scan and and they said yeah everything's fine there's your heartbeat and then we're like yeah for lunch and celebrated you know had like a really lovely lunch and we're talking about names and then still bleeding. And then we went for another scan. It's our third scan. And they just said, I'm really sorry, we haven't got heartbeats anymore. And obviously Max and I just looked at each other

and we were supposed to, we were going to go on holiday with my brother and his wife to Corfu the next day. And he said, we shouldn't go, we shouldn't go. I said, no, do you know what? I can't bear being in this house. that that night um i i went to the loo and we saw the little i don't know what you call it fetus i guess and we saw it so i know it had left my body and i was like right and now i now know that it's out and we kind of held hands we flushed the loo and then obviously that we sort of bleed it the proper bleeding happened a few days later and the pain and i got given painkillers so

it was it's a very traumatic experience and i and i think you know whoever has gone through it and i know that we i was nine weeks so it can obviously be a lot harder the old the longer it goes on um but like i said it's just talking about it. It gets rid of that taboo subject. I don't know why. I know it can be very personal, but for me, it didn't feel like it had to be a secret. I wanted it to kind of be able to...

If I can help some person in some way, apparently I did a few people, so that made me happy. Yeah, no, I think it helps people immeasurably. I mean, I think those conversations are really good to have out there because then other people realize that, you know, no one's immune from these things. It doesn't mean you've failed or, you know, done something wrong.

And also that it reminds people as well that the way you see people online doesn't necessarily tell you the full picture. And I think we all know that really, don't't we but sometimes it's good to have that emphasized I still go online and see things on Instagram and think oh yeah gosh you're so lucky so do I and it's so stupid stop doing it no yeah that's why I try and be really careful not to do that I try and really like you know kind of make sure that I do give them the real date the realness as much as I can anyway yeah so obviously there's a line because obviously for me Instagram's like my CV in a way it's how I make my money and how

but actually so like you know we all know the poses you can look you can look you know if you're feeling crap you can get yourself in a position you look like you're skinny but actually that's why I like Insta versus reality. And I love those posts because actually, I'm like, okay, cool, she does look, she has got her tummy still or something like, do you know what I mean? So I think it's really important that whoever has got a large following does do that.

Because I'm a sucker for it as well. I'm like, oh my God, she just had a baby and she's wearing her skinny jeans again. I can't even fit in any of my clothes. Yeah yeah I agree and actually it's it's a nice way to sort of remember that how you would have I think people can actually kind of lose touch with that but I don't think they always understand the you know who's seeing it and how it's affecting them yeah so I think that kind of thing just keeps you in touch with that doesn't that's where the mute button is really good on Instagram I think if you just don't want to see something if you just don't want to see someone for a few weeks,

mute them and then when you're feeling good again, just unmute. They don't know. They don't know. I know. That's good. I've used that. And the block button is brilliant as well. I love the block button. I had this really lovely quote in a TV programme yesterday from Walt Whitman saying, don't be judgmental, be curious. And I thought that's actually really lovely quote in a TV program yesterday from Walt Whitman saying, don't be judgmental, be curious.

And I thought that's actually really lovely. And I'm wondering if there's a lot of about that that kind of leads you into a more happy life because you're constantly looking outside yourself and saying, well, that's interesting you say that about your experiences. Tell me a bit more about that and what would have helped you feel better and more empowered. Yeah, absolutely. And now you find yourself, you you know you're a businesswoman and actually didn't yeah that was gonna happen yeah but that's really you know a lot of people

that um didn't maybe didn't feel that academia was the place where they really flourished it's not really about that no it's not you know you don't have to talk to Richard Branson I think he's got is it four GCSEs or something like that yeah or O levels um see it's not really about that I think it's about kind of just wanting to push on and give yourself something yeah and I mean I know it's really in its infancy with Blast Life but do you already feel the kernel of that satisfaction of growing something new yeah absolutely and I think do you know what the amount of people that have messaged us and or DM me and saying this has really helped me thank you so much I mean being able to help a family

because we're not focused on just mothers you know we're here for fathers and the LGBTQ community as well which I think is really cool exactly

so anyone we just want to help you know and I think even you know we actually we do lives

as well on Instagram so if anyone doesn't know about us they can have a little you know sleep consultants i think that's the biggest thing we ever get is the how do you get my baby to sleep please it's such a big deal isn't it though it is that's very telling i mean you can't function when you haven't had good sleep that and exercise i mean we have lots of people wanting to kind of get post early postpartum their bodies back and they you know safely because obviously i've got

a small prolapse so i didn't have that with india and so for me i'm just like where did i where can i go and find a really good trainer that's gonna help me get my everything quite literally back together um and yeah so we kind of we want it we want to be there for literally just every every aspect of parenting and it's such as know, it's just so broad. Even to lawyers, you know, and financial advisors. Brilliant. So you can literally get everything in one place. And it's not like Google.

I hate Google. Oh, my God. I used to Google it. It absolutely terrified me, the answers you'd get back. Oh, my goodness, I know. Yeah. Yeah. But even so, you still kind of do it sometimes.

Yeah, of course you do. And find yourself on this random forum. You go to the dark hole of, oh, I'm. Yeah. Yeah. But even so, you still kind of do it sometimes. Yeah, of course you do. And find yourself on this random forum. You go to the dark hole of, oh, I'm going to die next week because I've got this thing on my eye. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was going away for work, and I'm trying to remember which baby it was. I think it was quite, you know, maybe like the third or the fourth.

I just can't believe you've got five. Oh, my goodness. How do you look so good? Firstly, I was very kind. Secondly, I actually don't really remember how I got to this point in a way. I know that sounds absolutely loopy, but it's like they've just all sort of like appeared. I mean, obviously I know they would have been individual stages, but like the other day, yesterday, in fact, we were all in the sitting room

and then there's all five of them. They're all chatting away and I'm like, how have I got into this place? But yeah, one of the most... I love the fact you've got a big family. That's what I think I would love, ideally five. That's quite fun. But you have to be willing to embrace the chaos. And I've seen the inside of your house.

Your house is really beautiful and tidy. How are you going to cope with that? I don't know. I'm just, I'm really scared about weaning already. Like, what am I going to do with the carpet? I'm just going to have to get... Yeah, because you've got like beige carpets, right? Yeah. I've got a dog as well to help okay because I actually liked it I think I saw um I think it was a hello magazine you were showing your house yeah and it was all

pristine and beautiful and tranquil and then Max your husband had one chair just covered in clothes I mean I'm with Max that's me I. I know, I've got to slight it. And India's exactly the same. She is so tidy in her bedroom. And I'm just this OCD going round. But we've got Maria now who's just saved my bacon, honestly. She's like a gift from heaven. I love her.

She does, she kind of, I said to Maria, don't tidy up his chair. Like, leave it. She's like, no. He needs me to tidy up his chair. I thought thought you're actually spoiling him this is our housekeeper she's brilliant and she literally I mean if she ever left I'd probably cry for days and days like she's become such an integral part of the family

and she started when when we just was about we're about to have all these so that was my little present to kind of yeah not stop me from going mad because I don't know about you if your husband does the same but the clothes don't go anywhere near the bedroom. The socks and everything goes in the stairs. And then the dishwasher never gets filled. It gets in the sink. The loo roll never gets put back on. So I think Maria was a bit of a saving grace, to be honest.

Yeah, we got into this funny situation where, because during lockdown especially, Richard and I, our roles became very, very pronounced. So he would be doing all the meal times actually, which was brilliant. So cooking all the lunches, all the suppers. And I found myself on laundry duty pretty much exclusively. So that's kind of maintained. Can you do laundry? You know what? One time he literally went in and went, I can't get the washing machine

turned on. And he was pointing at the tumble dryer. So I think no. That's something I would do. Yeah. So I will put his little's something I would do. Yeah. So I will put his little folded pile of his little bits and bobs on the floor next to his wardrobe for him to put away. Oh dear. And we have quite an old cat. She's like 17

and apparently this is quite normal cats but she's taken to like weeing like everywhere. And she thinks that his clothes is like a litter tray. So the other day he was like, Rizzo keeps weeing on my clothes and I was like, well you know what the solution for that is? Put them away.

Put your clothes away. Right, right. You had a word with the cat, haven't you? Exactly. You had a word with the cat. She's on your side. But yeah, oh, that's taken me way off tangent. My poor geriatric cat.

She's at home thinking, why are you talking about me? Leave me out of it. People don't need to know my business. Yeah, so how did you find having your second? Did you find, I found like it was double the work. Did you find like it's double the work having two kids now? So I think you've got a similar age gap from your first to your second. Yeah, and my baby is still a very little baby.

Yeah, he's only three months. I think the age... He came down in one spot, he stays in one spot. And he doesn't really mind being left on his own like i could i can do something in the house when he's chilling in his little bouncy chair playing um whereas india was very much wanting attention constantly and would have to have the dummy in her mouth if she dropped out i'd have to put it back in again but he's he's not taking the dummy he's using his thumb which means expensive dentist bills i'm sure in a few years and probably no thumb left.

But he's been... India has been so good with him. I think it's a really lovely age gap, four years, because she's not getting jealous. She's helping out. She loves him so much. She's so sweet with him. And if anything, there's nothing... She hasn't changed personality

other than just wanting to make sure I'm around a lot more you know she wants to obviously confirm that I'm she's still my first and you know so we I like to kind of have one-on-one time with her take her out to the park and Max has got Wolfie or vice versa he'll take you know the baby or whatever but he's been a very chilled baby actually so far so good I'm touching Will's I it doesn't stay sometimes you don't you don't want to say anything in case it changes that day exactly and I think I'm being lulled but he's very sweet very chilled and I feel like I've got um a nice little routine going on India started school last week and this is her first week of

her proper hours so there's no longer a 12 o'clock pickup from nursery which is really nice because you can't leave where I live with all the bridges being closed it takes an hour to leave where I live so it's um I'm looking forward to having a bit of a routine back for me as well yeah I'm really into my fitness I really would love to kind of get that back on track and and have a bit more more time for me during the day and then I can you know get everything sorted for when she comes back from school. And also nice to have him, you know, one-on-one as well. I mean, with the business you're setting up, I can see that it's obviously partly fuel because of what you felt you were looking for when you were a new mum. Yeah.

But do you think there's also a part of you that feels it's really nice to have something that's part of this new chapter of your life? Because obviously Made in Chelsea probably feels like a different time now. Yeah, it does feel like a different time now. Completely. To be honest, it's amazing how it wasn't even that long. It was four years ago. I'm very proud of Bloss. And I love coming into the offices.

And it's just quite surreal still, I think, that this is all here. And I think it's also really important for me to have that sense of worth as well, like I, I'm glad I'm giving something back, and I can't give back, like I said, I'm not an expert at anything, other than being, you know, my, a mother, okay, that's, I'm not an expert at that, but you know what I mean, that's all I know, but being able to give something back that I can help, we're helping, not only are we helping families, but we're also kind of giving the experts a bit of a profile push because, you know, a lot of experts don't know how to work technology

and I wouldn't know how to upload a video. So we're kind of giving them an extra platform to be able to make money and get their names out there. And we're only really early days and we've got a really lovely amount of experts, you know, and we've got lots of users. But think you know i think that you know the whole instagram thing everyone wants the blue tick everyone wants to have all the following but actually the experts that are really good they don't know about instagram they don't really we're trying to

give them a voice out there as well who aren't tech savvy and that's what i really liked about it because we don't want to go for the blue ticks necessarily we want to get the real amazing people in to kind of give them right here you go guys this is you've got everything everyone on here from all different everywhere do you know what i mean um and it is so easily accessible yeah because you can do online consultations you can do one-on-one you know in-person appointments or you can just get free content we've got so much free content out there so you don't have to pay for anything just have to you know so we hope we'll just help we want to help everyone as much as we can yeah i can see that big community big yeah solid advice it's a solid real advice and nothing you know we're not trying

to kind of it's just we want to be able to kind of give as much as we can for free as well. So free, you know, lots of content out there. Yeah, and it makes people feel less alone. And actually, I think, you know, that's, I think that's what's so brilliant actually about now in terms of being able to access information. Because that feeling we both had where we felt quite isolated, it can really reduce that feeling. Yeah. You know, and while we've been talking, you sometimes put yourself down a little bit about your your abilities but actually not everybody um decides to set up businesses and push things forward and really you know work on something and get enthused that's actually you shouldn't

you know underestimate how significant that is i think that's just been from you know i was never academic like i said at school i was always in the last class and and the show was I mean you know lots of people don't like reality tv because they think well who are you why have you got why are you allowed to have these followers or or um you know and I always feel a bit guilty actually because you know you like yourself you've got a real amazing talent and I haven't got that talent but what I've learned over the years is you know especially Matt has been amazing because he's a business owner he's really pushed me to start thinking of myself more yeah and like myself I like myself more because of him and um he's the one that kind

of got Steph and I together he said listen you've got the creme de la creme of someone in tech like Steph started Uber and she helped market Uber in the UK. Never heard of it. It's a really great app. How does that work? So Max is like how are you guys not working together you know Binks you've got the following and you've got the mummy audience and that trust you and you're relatable and you've got you know your golden ticket Steph who's can he can together you can make something really special and amazing and didn't we we had we had a we had a bottle of champagne with her husband kids were all playing in the garden we kind of did loads of chatting back and forth trying to work out what it was and Steph was like there isn't anything else out here

like this out there like this you know how do you where do you go to get all this stuff not just for you know mothers but for fathers as well because the fathers get left out a little bit really yeah and i think also should be encouraged to be part of the conversation as well yes of course well max was like i don't know what there's no nct group for us you know we want to because max is desperate to come to i didn't do nct the second time but he really wanted to go to something for him to learn about what to do um and of course you know when you're actually in the situation when you actually have the baby you you just have to learn you get you're gonna yeah they learn like that but well plus i suppose from your own experience in your first baby you you very much raised india with two parents where they weren't you know

working alongside each other but not always in the same room so you've already got that other person in your daughter's life that can use that resource as well you know yeah absolutely you've got very close hand yeah you know evidence of how significant dads need you know all the role they're playing yeah um no I think all that's really brilliant and I think Max sounds amazing and I love the fact you said he really made me like myself and I I wondered you know with going through something like Made in Chelsea if it made you feel that extra drive of like you know what you don't necessarily underestimate me here there's actually quite a lot more to me than that I think I was portrayed well I say portrayed it was real life I I was I never got involved in any of the fights or the bitchiness or the kind of you know I didn't want to get involved in that I

I was more the kind of counsellor in the show because I had been cancelled when I was younger you know I had a you know I had a lovely upbringing but when my parents divorced and I moved schools I was really badly bullied at one of my schools and I had to go I think that my mother and father breaking up and everything kind of came tumbling down we lost our beautiful house and my father lost his job so it was a very it's a big transition and it was just a really horrible time so was that in your teenage years yeah it was and I found it really really difficult and my mother and I have always been so close I mean I slept in her bed every night when I was growing well for a few years we were just very close and she and I had to go to counselling I think because of that I think that's really shaped

me as the person I get well it sounds so cliche but it has done you know I don't think it's cliche our experiences show us don't they and I think that that kind of came through on the show so if anyone was going through a breakup or if anyone was upset with a friendship group like I kind of stayed out the drama I was like more the kind of the listener and the kind of advice giver and that's and that but also at the same time as the dopey one the silly one no because I you know I mean I would tell the show would say right guys we're having a pajama party this weekend so make sure you get your and I turned up in some disgusting Primark pajamas like baggy pajamas and of course all the other girls turned up in lingerie and like looking stunning and the agent provocative

I was like for the record I know which one I'd rather be but on camera I need the Primark pajamas definitely but a Primani um so I was just like okay that's what I was supposed to do like try and look sexy but do you know what it was just it was just where and I think that's what you know a bit dopey with my heart my sleeve but I was always a bit of like the joker and that's stuck with me but then obviously having India I honestly it's just made me grow up so quickly and like I said to you earlier I really do and I'm the happiest I think I've ever been now literally I love where I I love our little family and our little setup and you know and having this and when our office is now and it's you know it's just so cool it's very cool because it's very near where i live i know the epicenter of the world

no but i think that's lovely and i think you know um i don't think your experiences as a teenager at all cliche actually i think going through a really big thing of losing your family home and your dad losing his job is a really big deal and actually i also don't think it's something to be underestimated that relatability is something that you know is something you can say as a positive about yourself because there'll be a lot of people who would come through a similar um way of being introduced to the general public and that would not be the outcome because surely the whole thing of the program and you know full disclosure this is not something i watch that's why i'm not able to and you said I've probably embarrassed myself I'm not

like thinking my silence is not like agreement I just I'm not going to say about that episode season four um but no I think I think that's a really that's due to the voice that you use you know when you're speaking to people and you're you know the thing I said before the curiosity but you know also looking outside of yourself and when you have had a massive um everything go wrong firstly it shows you the significance of you know so long as everybody in your life is happy and well in themselves then you can kind of get through these big deals but also there, you know, that's everything shifting and changing and then having to rebuild up. Yeah.

And, you know, you've mentioned your mum a few times. Do you think that you're a similar mum to your mum? Yeah, I think so. I mean, my mum is, she's really my best friend. I speak to her every day. And she, I mean, she's always taught me to talk about everything. Like I told her when I had sex. I mean, she would always try and encourage me to talk about everything which also sometimes got a bit weird but I mean I get

I get it now yeah and I really hope that India and Wolfie had the same relationship with me where they can talk to me about anything yeah um and I know you think some people say oh you shouldn't you know be your child's best friend you should be a mother but I think that's a bit rapid I think you can do as long as they've got respect for you and i have i had a lot of respect for mommy growing up you know if i was naughty her eyes would turn cold blue and i'd be like oh shit i'm in trouble now like i would be terrifying her eyes weren't normally a different color no no no but like you know how your eyes are browned it looked like she'd changed color they were they were just cold and scary and I was like oh my god yeah I was I deserved it a few times I was a bit pesky um but she yeah so she's she's been like my rock and she's been my biggest

support and and god yeah if I if I have the same relationship with my kids that I have with her that'd be amazing yeah I think I do I think India I mean I tell I don't know how much I tell Andrea I tell her a hundred times a day I love her. And I, you know, always give her affection so much, so many cuddles. And I was so cuddly as well growing up. And we're both Gemini's, we're absolute nightmares. You know, Max has got, so me, so it goes, it goes India's birthday's on the 12th of June. No, Wolfie's on the 4th, India's the 12th and I'm the 14th of June.

Oh, really? So poor Max has got eight different personalities in one house. So he jokes saying he's gonna send us away every year for our birthdays but just until the 15th um but yeah so and and so mum's mum's got MS now so she can't really kind of walk anymore and it's got quite bad quite quickly um but little things like you know she's she tries really hard to get on her scooter we've shown her the right path to come from where she lived over to us and yeah and i think she's just i think that's the thing when you're getting older she just she just wants to be she loves the grandkids more than me i think actually she said that that's the best having grandkids yeah i'm sorry to hear about her ms it's it's it's been going for 30

years and they just they um thought it was fibromyalgia or something. Oh, okay. But it was MS and so she's got bad really quick, deteriorated quite quickly, which is such, it's horrible. But I mean, mentally, she's still 18 and wants to go to Maggie's nightclub and drink loads of, you know, fishbowls.

So it's really hard for her. But I've got some, so we're getting married in Corfu next year. And I've just said to some of the boys you're gonna have to pick her up and you know place her different places because it's all that or a donkey because she just can't get around i vote donkey yeah me too actually well yeah i suppose you know it's um the things you're doing now are actually how i got introduced to you so you've already started doing that leap

from the Made in Chelsea thing is actually how I first heard about you. It was through what you're doing now. So that's, how exciting is that? Like a whole new chapter. I'm much happier about that as well. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, Made in Chelsea definitely wasn't for everyone. And it was just a bit of fun. And I think it was, I had a bit of fun and and I yeah and I think it was um I learned I had a lot of great experience on it but I'm much I'm happy I've finished it now yeah I don't miss it at all well I don't even watch it it doesn't sound like something that's

meant to be a life you live forever and ever and I think you know if you've got the instinct to manage to come out of it feeling like you can still have your head held high then that's actually the you've got to have somewhere in that you know that feeling of like this this is just gonna stick on this path yeah you know because I bet that there's people that kind of I don't know might overshare or act a certain way and then they come out of it and think oh I don't know how I get that genie back in the bottle now exactly or it can really you know a lot of a lot of people um gets quite you know severe anxiety after it's it's quite an intrusive show I mean it was you know I can't ever you know bad mouth it because it's it's given me a lot I wouldn't be here today as in you know having

blossom everything without it but it was a very hard show to be on because you i mean i suffer from i suffered from anxiety because you're being watched the whole time and you and you if you had been cheated on you wouldn't find out until you were on camera because everyone would have to keep things a secret from you so oh my goodness it was actually pretty horrific i can't even really imagine what that must feel like pretty rank yeah i mean they they but that's you know good entertainment it's good viewing isn't it so they could it's not obviously it's it's it's what people wanted to see is you know it's but being the actual subject was quite hardcore well because it must be such a unique position to find yourself in i mean the only thing i can really relate it to is when i did strictly

yeah because then there's this whole sort of curse of strictly thing oh yeah and as soon i didn't really know much about all that and then you know you sign up to the program and then suddenly be out there having a drink with your friends and they'll be like oh richard are you worried she's going to run off for the dancer and it's like it's all kind of like quite funny and entertainment until it's like actually you and your actual partner and um yeah I think um did you did you did you have anxiety or not I like you have a mum that I speak to pretty much every day and is provide you know the provider of counsel for all things and when it first started I was saying oh you know I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this and she said look just go with

the flow of it because for the rest of your life it's just going to be a nice thing you did once yeah so just you know do the things that feel right to you don't feel because the show would like to try and push certain things and make you behave in a way that maybe you didn't feel comfortable not in a nasty way but you know if you're doing I don't know like a sexy dance and I'd be like come on but like I'd like my my granny in the audience you know I'm just like that's not really well where I want to take this um granny can't be watching me do this no exactly do like an elaborate lean back and hi grandpa I just didn't really feel that that was what I wanted to walk away from it but that was only you know three or four months tops not eight years like you but that's intense though filming that is

intense i've been told it's you know every single day training getting up first thing in the morning and yeah it is but it's also you know the learning to dance is lovely i can recommend that i'd love that yeah i think i'm a fantastic dancer after a few picantes i have to say my 80s music go to if you've been to maggie's on on the Kings Road on the Fulham Road I haven't actually do you love 80s music of course yeah you should go

maybe give it a while and now we've got Covid going on but I don't think I fancy stepping foot in a club for a long time to be honest

like a proper sweaty I know it does feel a bit weird I've been doing festivals and it's like everybody's back together but that's outside that's nice

I was also in Heaven Nightclub on Saturday night where oh okay which is probably painting a different picture of myself than this is normal

it's not somewhere I usually end up at 1am on a Saturday night how much fun though well I loved it because during the lockdown I had filmed a video

where I went around lots of clubs and venues in London I went from a teeny tiny one in Soho called the Samaritz Club all the way to the O2 and obviously all of them were shut yeah so all we were doing when the video was just having someone who was there just to turn the lights on and seeing all these places empty where there's normally so much industry and so many people working just felt really sad so being back in the club and being able to thing and see everybody dance

actually felt lovely yeah it was actually really nice oh well can you let me know next time we do that i'd love to i'll try and get into a mix this up something akin to a picante at the bar so what's what do you think is next for you then binky where are you headed oh god i don't know that kind of planner i think i'm just going to get through the next few weeks first i think i don't know i think um there's always things in the pipeline i love investing in companies that i really believe in so i'm i mean again max is kind of really helping i think because he's just a very he's he's very good at kind of pushing me to kind of really think outside the box a lot more and

just have more confidence to do that kind of thing and um so we've got a we've got a few little projects coming up obviously my my own um I've got lots of jobs coming up with my own manager but for what I'd really love to do is Max and I are looking to get a little place in the country just for like a little escape because I my mum sadly sold her place in the country and I'm a country girl at heart really I've always imagined having an agar and ducks and chickens running in that the kitchen and my kids just playing in the you know in the garden and that's how I was brought up really country and um very very darling buzz of me but I'm not a very good cook like ma'am but um anyway so I think that's I think kind of family wise, I'd love to be able to have a little escape for my kids to kind of just, because apparently boys are a lot more hardcore when they can start walking.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if any drop boys, but yeah, probably. I don't know. Yeah, I think when they get toddling, it's quite hardcore. So I'd like just to kind of get a little place in the country for them to run around. I think kids make sense in open spaces. Yeah, exactly. And I need to start making my house a little less tidy and, yeah, pristine. I haven't asked you if you always wanted to be a mum.

Is it something you always thought? Yeah, I've always wanted to be a mum. I absolutely love kids. Yeah. I didn't realise it would be so soon, but I'm obviously very grateful yeah it happened well sometimes if you wait for the right time that takes a long time to present itself I think it's happened for a reason right and I think that India was the best thing that could have ever happened to me oh that's lovely well here's to her and Orfi's been like amazing he's asleep yeah

well done Steph that's very impressive and to Max he sounds like he's really been a perfect person in your life at the right time yeah and I'd like to finally say saying your name out loud is a really nice thing to be able to say

like Binky Foster is a lovely name to say it's quite melodic so my real name is actually Alexandra I know that I've done my research I've had a few

Dyson chickens and bunnies named after me which is great the Binky side yeah the binky one actually no

I've had a child named binky as well apparently really yeah aww a real binky a real binky on their driver's licence

and everything yeah thank you so much for chatting to me it's been really lovely meeting you and it's a mixed blessing with your sleeping bubbles

I was kind of hoping for a cuddle but it's fine next time take him to heaven one night yes brilliant Yeah, mixed blessing with your sleeping bubble. So I was kind of hoping for a cuddle, but it's fine. Next time. Take him to heaven one night. Yes. Brilliant. So that was Binky and baby Wolfie in the background.

He was incredibly quiet. I really thought there was going to be more noise from the bubba, but no, he's quiet. Oh, talking of noise from bubba's, I can hear my children about to ring the doorbell. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you very much to Richard for being my editor. I love you, darling.

Thank you very much for Claire Jones for being the most amazing producer. Ella May for doing the amazing artwork. I'm going to love you and leave you. I know, I know. Freaking wolf. All right, sorry. Don't say freaking. Anyway,

lots of love. See you next week. Who am I going to talk to next week? Oh, next week is Joe Tuchner-Sharp, who is the founder of Scamp and Dude, which is the clothing brand for kids and adults. I'm a bit distracted as well. My child goes straight on to Fortnite. and adults. I'm a bit distracted as well. My child goes straight on to Fortnite. I'll help you in a minute. All right, Ray, well done. But you're going to hear about how the business came out of a near-death experience. So join me for that one. See you soon. Lots of love. Thank you. you