Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 42: Jo Tutchener Sharp

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

6 years ago businesswoman Jo Tutchener Sharp underwent brain surgery and was very much afraid she wasn't going to see her family again, including her then 1 and 3 year old boys. Happily surgery was successful, but having looked at her life so far, from the pearly gates, Jo decided she hadn't done enough good with her life. So she came up with superhero sleep buddies - cuddly toys which have a pocket to carry a photo of mum or dad so your parents are with you even if one of you is not well in hospital. She donates one for every one sold. Now she heads up a successful and brilliant clothing company - Scamp and Dude - built from this beginning and with the desire to reach out to others going through similar situations at the heart of it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Cool podcast. Yeah, I know, my voice is absolutely shot. I'm feeling pretty run down but I still wanted to

sing to you um I don't know why I'm run down I think I had a run of gigs last weekend I did three festivals on the trot and then came back and you know usual stuff up early getting kids out the door and then I don't know about you but every day I get to the end of the day and I think I'm gonna have an early night tonight I just can't do it it's like once the kids are down in bed that's the time when I think right I'd like to do this that and the other and I potter about and maybe watch something read a bit and before I know it it's midnight again and then yeah I'm up sort of like six hours later so I just need a little bit of sleep that's what's happening so yeah my voice listen to it yeah it's a good job I haven't got a festival this weekend I haven't I've need a little bit of sleep. That's what's happening. So yeah, my voice, listen to it.

Yeah, it's a good job I haven't got a festival this weekend. I haven't. I've got a pride. I'm going to Birmingham for pride. But that'll be just lots of fun. I'll definitely be able to sing along for that. And oh, my cat's just come over to say hi. I'm actually not really wanting to see her.

Oh, you know what? I was going to tell you what's happening with her, but then you might be a bit grossed out. Oh, sods it, I've started now. I'll keep it really sanitary. But basically, Rizzo, she's the female cat and she's 17. She had what I thought was a little cut on her face. And when taking her to the vet, we realised it's not a cut on her face. OK, if you're squeamish your like move away from the speaker or whatever

it wasn't a carna phase it was an abscess on her tooth that burst through her cheek i know that's grim isn't it poor rizzo worse for her obviously um she seems fine in herself she's booked in for surgery to take the tooth out it's all going to be fine but she is looking not amazing this thing poking through her face anyway i don't know why i always end up talking about my cats during the podcast is it because i call you podcats maybe she think here's the word podcats and she thinks i'm calling her might change it to something else um anyway you don't want to hear about all the tooth abscesses and you don't probably want to hear about my voice being a bit shot. You want to hear

about this week's guest, which is the right thing, right place to put your emphasis. This week is really, it's a really sweet thing actually. So I interviewed Joe Tuchner-Sharp, who is the founder of a lovely company called Scamp and Dude. But the thing that's really cute about it is there was lots of serendipity involved. I was approached to do some sponsorship of the podcast, actually, with something that Scamp and Dude had done with an energy company called Eon, where it was reducing pollution.

You'll hear about that in the chat. And I thought, oh, that's a cool incentive. But I thought, let me find out a bit more about Scamp and Dude. I knew their clothes. I already had a tracksuit. But I didn't really know a lot about their story. I read about Jo and her story, which I will not ruin in the introduction, because she'll tell the story better than mine. But it's a pretty incredible start to a business and a life-changing event that happened to Jo. So I got in touch with her and I said, you know what, I'd really love to talk to you. And she said, that'd be nice. Also,

we've spoken before 20 years ago in her previous guys when she used to work in PR, she was in beauty PR. So yeah, I thought, how sweet. And I remembered our emails because we used to email quite a lot back when I was like 21. So anyway, isn't that nice serendipity, all the strands joining up. So it was lovely to reconnect with Jo and actually have a proper chat with her face to face. And her story's brilliant. It was a really good chat. And I think you're going to find it quite special. And it was really nice for me. So thank you. You've managed to reconnect with someone I hadn't seen for a really long time. that's that's what's what's lying you know ahead of you right now and so I'm going to sit back and try to avoid my cat nuzzling me from the side of her face which you just don't want

nuzzled on anything sorry Rizzo you know what I'm talking about and um I'll see you on the other side and in the meantime I'm gonna stop talking and rest my voice. All right, let's love. See you in a minute. It's actually quite funny because I wanted to speak to you because I really love Scamp and Dude and I'd read your story and I was really impressed with you, not realising that I actually knew you like 20 years ago ago which is quite bonkers really because when this was in your previous sort of incarnation I guess when you were working in PR and you worked for a company called Purple so you were always to meet Joe at Purple. Yeah Purple Joe people used to call me. So as soon as I got that email back from you like actually you know me from then I was like oh my goodness um and I guess that's before everything so you now have your business how old is Scamp and Dude

so it'll be five in November oh it's still quite young really yeah it's a primary school yeah still cute and little yeah nice pudgy fingers yeah um but um when when did you first sort of make the transition from working in PR to sort of being your own like a businesswoman so I first after I'd worked at Purple I moved over to Estee Lauder and did a couple of years in-house um getting I mean it's an amazing company to work for and it's I would say it was like my finishing school because Purple was great fun, really exciting events. And it was a very fun place to work. It was brilliant.

But Estee Lauder was very serious. And yeah, like my finishing school, taught me how to do things properly. Are they quite old school like that, quite traditional? It is, yeah, it is quite, it's very traditional. But everything, everything is, you just, I learned more about how PR is part of the whole business rather than it all being about PR.

It was, I learned about sales and education and the importance of every single part of a business, which was actually really helpful to me moving forward because you can see how everything works together and how important each different aspect of a brand is. then um brand like s day lord as well they've done it for so long yeah kind of really honed um as you say that thing of to work there everybody has to be on the same page with understanding what they're part of yeah exactly and then i decided i wanted my own business because I loved agency.

I missed agency, but there wasn't another agency I wanted to work for. So I set up my own agency called Beauty Scene. And I ran that. I mean, I ran it for eight years in the end, but I ran it. A lot happened during that time. So first I went through a divorce when I'd first set up the business and then met my now husband, Rob, and had my first child. So it's a real, a massive change during that time. And after I'd had my first child, I remember thinking, oh my God, how am I going to

make this work? Because running my own PR company was full on. And I I'm you know I had to go into the office you in the office nine till seven every day and it was really full on and I didn't want to be out the office and be away from my baby for that long and I was trying to make that work and work out how how I could make that work but it was really it was really difficult and when I had my second Jude, I decided, okay, I want to do something else. And I decided I wanted my own brand. And originally, I was going to start a skincare brand because a lot of my work had been in beauty. And a great friend of mine is a really amazing skincare expert and blogger. And we were going to do it together.

And that's what I was beavering ahead thinking, right, I'm going to do that. I'm going to sell my shares in the PR company. And that's what I was beavering ahead thinking right I'm going to do that I'm going to sell my shares in the PR company and that's what I'm going to do so that I started the process but the selling your shares in your own business is incredibly hard it's a horrible process to go through it's a really emotional like you're walking away from somebody's like you're walking away from one of your children because you've set it up from scratch. And it's like the legal side and the accountants. And it was unpleasant, a really unpleasant thing, incredibly stressful. And my kids, Jude was newborn and Sonny was only three.

So it was definitely not a good time in my life going through selling those shares. And I've had this spasm in my face where it was like, you know, when you get an eye twitch, it was like an eye twitch, but it was in my cheek and it was much bigger. And I went to the doctors and I said, what? Did you physically see it? Yeah, you could see it twitching. And he said, you are so stressed that you have to stop whatever's happening in your life right now. And I remember going back and emailing everyone involved in the sale

because we're still negotiating how much I was getting for my shares and all of this, and it was just horrible. And I emailed and I said, I'll just accept the last offer, that's fine. I've got to stop doing this because it's going to make me ill. And I wrote, I feel like my head is going to explode. And they're the exact words I used. Press send. And literally a few

weeks later I had the most excruciating headache went to the doctors they sent me straight to the hospital they thought it was meningitis started treating me for meningitis in a room on my own and I fell asleep and woke up at one in the morning with a doctor saying um you we found a lump on your brain and you've had a brain hemorrhage and you have a history of cancer in your family. And I was just... That was at one in the morning? That was one in the morning.

And then she was feeling around for lumps in my limbs and then she walked out. And on your own at the time? On my own in this dark room all night. Did she deliberately think, I'm going to wait until I'm really in a lonely middle of the night kind of time? And go in and just...

It's like, couldn't that have waited until the morning? Terrifying news, and then just walk out again. It's going to go really well. I'll never forget that. There's this grey room and I was staring at this,

it's like a heat sensor on the ceiling, just staring at it going, oh my God, my life's just changed forever. At this moment, my life's just changed. All I could think about was my boys. They were one and three,

thinking, oh my God, I cannot leave them without a mum. And then thinking about telling my parents and telling my husband and my sisters and just going, I can't, how, oh my God, it still makes me feel sick, that moment. So fast forward to, that was, that'll be six years ago next month that that happened.

And then turns out I needed to have this lump removed um so I was facing brain surgery and again the thought of facing brain surgery when you've got two tiny kids and one of the hard things as well was you couldn't really talk to anyone about how scared you were because you didn't want to make them scared so I never once said to any of my family or my friends I'm really scared of dying because so you can't say that to someone who loves you because they're scared of that too but no one's mentioning it so you you have you can't actually you just have to keep it all inside and just be like and try and pretend that everything's okay and I guess as well when you look back at that period as you said you, you were already two young children, so they're like three and one.

So very young children, getting out of a stressful job, selling your shares, which sounds like, as you say, it's like very emotional, something you're already connected with and it's sort of part of you, something you've grown. And also this, you know, the horror of a very significant health um event and an operation so the scale of how many this is all over the course of a few months is it yeah it was yeah so definitely a life-changing thing to go through and it's it was one of those things that made that it i'll never forget because I remember facing that surgery and going,

okay, I don't know if I'm going to come out of it. It's the same brain surgery and heart surgery. You can't help but go, I don't know what's going to happen when I wake up, if I'm going to wake up. You're facing it going, this is uncertain. And the biggest things I remember was one, was it's true what people say about the pearly gates

when they, it sounds so cliche, but it's true, you do go there. You go, okay, and you look over your life and it's not about what I found myself. It wasn't about, oh, I never went to enough festivals or I never went to Australia or I never did this. It was, for me, it was, I had this horrible Australia or I never did this it was for me it was I had this horrible feeling that I hadn't done enough good that I hadn't helped enough people or because

I'd worked in PR I'd lived a life of Riley and I'd I'd had a great fun life but I hadn't really I felt like I hadn't done enough good and the feeling that it might be too late to change that was horrible it was just helpless it's this horrible helpless feeling of I might not be able to change that now that might this might be it and that I always think we're trying to speak tell people that to try and go think spend some time thinking about that now when when you have got time to make a change I mean my husband now his his um his motto is like are we living our best life and he's this is why we moved out of London. This is why we've done so many things to try and make life count as much as possible.

And it definitely was life-changing. And heading into hospital, like I said, I couldn't speak to anyone about how I was feeling. So I wrote letters. I wrote letters to everyone. I hid them in the house so that if I didn't make it, they'd find it. Oh, wow.

Which was, yeah, goes through me thinking about it. Where are they now? Oh, I was actually a bit embarrassed. When I came out of hospital and I knew that I was okay, I was like, oh, my God, go and get those letters quick and get rid of them. Because, yeah, it was emotional. I don't know. I think that's a lovely thing to do because you obviously just,

yeah, you wanted to be able to impart a message but um I can't imagine not everybody has a near-death experience in that way so the significance of it is um sort of giving me goosebumps really do you think it affected your nearest and dearest in a similar way of evaluating things definitely my husband massively he changed like he was working for another company um at that point running an agency and he left afterwards set up his own business and he's run his own business ever since and was really keen to move out of London like I said and and it's definitely changed our outlook on a lot of things um and for the better I think we're less worried about this and for me as well work-wise I'm I'm less worried about the kind of things I used to be worried

about and I don't care about things like status or have I reached this have I reached that and for me it's about what I'm doing and what a difference it's making and how much I love what I'm doing and that's very it's it's completely different to how I think I used to feel I used to almost be on this um hamster wheel just like racing racing racing and now I take more enjoyment from what I'm doing and definitely got more meaning yeah but the I mean the idea for the whole of Scamp and Dew came from when I was actually in hospital so I came went in for the surgery said goodbye to the kids and then put my parents in Rob which was terrible but came out

and that was the big one of the biggest probably the biggest high I've ever had in my life was waking up in the in the intensive care and realizing I was alive I can't describe how that felt it was just like the most euphoric moment ever because I was like oh my god I made realizing I was alive I can't describe how that felt it was just like the most euphoric moment ever because I was like oh my god I made it I was so happy and there's other people in the intensive care with you who'd all come out of surgery as well and I still remember there's one little boy opposite me and he'd had a piece of his skull because you we had both had a piece of skull removed to take the and luckily my mind had been put back on but if your brain swells during the surgery you can't have it put back on you're sewn up and you've got a big dent in your

head and this little boy opposite me had this big dent and he was saying to me are you better now are you better now and I was going yeah but are you better now and but they were they they ask you questions constantly to check if there's brain damage they're saying who's who's the prime minister what day is it all these questions I don't always know that information now. No, I did go, I don't know what day it is, but I just don't know what day it is. That's not my... And this little boy didn't know what was going on.

So it was, yeah, a bit... Anyway, I was very, very, very happy to be alive. I was high as a kite telling the... I mean, it was partly all the drugs that was being pumped through my body I'm sure but I was telling the nurses how much I love their eyebrows I remember telling she was going thanks still in beauty PR yeah exactly you've got great eyebrows and then she met one of them made me a cup of tea and I said this is the best cup of tea I've ever had in my life before I vomited it all up and she was like oh yes don't worry dear and I was

just so joyful I was just absolutely overjoyed to be alive and I thought right I've got a second chance I'm I've got another chance at life this is I'm going to take this and then when I was recovering I had 10 days in hospital where I couldn't I couldn't see the kids because I was shaved this side was shaved. It was cut from here to here, 20 staples down my head. It looked like Frankenstein. There was no way I wanted them to see that. That's something that would just stay in their brain forever.

So that was the longest I've ever been. I'd only been away from them for maybe two nights before. So it was a really long time. And I knew that they were with my family, though. My eldest was with my big my little sister and my youngest was with my mum and dad and Rob they take it in turns at home so I knew they were fine but I kept worrying about what would happen to single mums and who didn't have a support network and I kept saying to my mum what happens to single parents what happens

to the kids then if they don't have a support network and she'd be like well they'd have friends who would have the child don't worry and I go what if they don't and what if they don't have them and remember her saying to me well they'd go into care they'd be cared for don't worry but the thought of that broke my heart and I kept thinking I want to do something to help kids who have to be separated from their parents I need to do something there must be something I could do and And I came up with these, what's now our superhero sleep buddies. So they're little cuddly superheroes. And in my head, I thought if I could put a pocket on the back, I could have put my photo in there and given it to my kids and said, here's a little superhero. It's going to keep you safe. And mommy's right here.

Look at the back. There's mommy. I'm right right here and I think that would have comforted them when we were apart so I thought I'm going to make them let me try and make them and imagine if I could donate one for everyone sold to a child who loses a parent or a child who's seriously ill themselves and that became my total get well goal so getting through because recovering from brain surgery you're I was getting migraines all the time it's it's not easy I was gonna say it was a lot of pain I mean yeah suddenly dealing with that as a new thing in your life as well that's yeah a lonely process I'd imagine so it was all that was my goal and that was my that was helping me get better really so I was on a mission then and I registered the brand name Scamp and Dude in the March and found a supplier and started

firstly working on the Sleep Buddies and then thought I think I want to do clothes as well because I came up with this slogan a superhero has my back to tell kids that a superhero is watching over them when they can't see you so when they're going off to nursery or they're going off to school they could wear a t-shirt with a superhero has my back on the back and a little character on the front and we've got a superpower button on every garment so our neon bolt is a superpower button and the idea for that was so kids could press it to get superpowers when they were feeling nervous or scared or missing their parents or um because when we first launched we were a kids brand and we only had two adult sweatshirts and we launched into liberty in the november so that was another that was this is one of the most magical bits of this story for me was

so i had the surgery in the january registered the company name in in the march and then we launched into liberty in the november so in less than a year the brand was actually launching in liberty which i still look back on and go how on earth did that happen with the state i was in as well with these migraines but it was that absolute fire in my belly of i'm alive and i've got another chance at life drive to just do it that i probably could never do again yeah you look back and you go where did i come from that's exhausting what's that yeah i'm tired just looking at that time scale um but during during that process i suddenly got a dm on instagram from a buyer at liberty who had heard on the grapevine that i'd left my pr company and that i was starting a skincare line so she'd said

oh joe will you come in and see me because i'm i'd love to see i'd love to hear what it is you're doing and see if it's interesting for liberty so So I said, well, actually, it's not beauty anymore. It's now kidswear because originally we were a kidswear brand. And she said, well, as fate would have it, I'm now head of beauty and kids. So let's get together. I was like, oh, my goodness. This is like a fate moment. Went to meet her. She's called Sarah Coonan.

She's an absolutely brilliant woman. And she listed, I didn't have any samples to show her I just had my brand presentation so I showed all the designs talked her through the story and she just said I love it I love it all we'll take it all and she told me how many she would want of the sleep buddies and it was more than I'd ordered totally so I had to quickly call the factory and go quadruple my order because whatever she took I was donating that amount because we donate one for everyone so that was an unbelievable moment walking out of Liberty's bawling my eyes out calling my parents my husband going they're taking it it's like it was almost like kind of confirming that this was it it was good and it was going to be it was something I

was on to something type thing so also. Also Liberty is arguably my favourite shop in the whole world. Yeah, me too. I love it in there. So yeah, that's like a very big purple tick. Yeah. It all comes back to purple. So this week,

this part of the podcast is brought to you in partnership with E.ON. As a leader in sustainable energy, E.ON is committed to helping create a greener, cleaner and more wonderful world. And as part of this commitment, E.ON is on a mission to raise awareness of the dangers surrounding air pollution

and help clean our air. Now to do this, E.ON have actually launched something that's really fun with a positive impact on kids. So I'm looking forward to telling you all about it and I'm delighted to welcome Joe to the podcast. This is Joe Touch in a Shop, who's the founder of fashion brand Scamp and Dude, which is famous for its superpower infused leopard and lightning bolt loungewear and vibrant designs. I am a fan myself. And Eon have partnered with Scamp and Dude to create this amazing cape. It's a very beautiful cape, which is going to tackle an important issue and empower

children to make a change. So welcome, Jo. Thank joining me thank you so in order to tell you about the exciting work the honor doing i first want to talk to you a bit about air pollution i'm sad to say this is reaching dangerous levels across the uk and this is nothing but bad news for us and our kids so did you know for example that children in around 2,000 schools and nurseries in the UK are being exposed to illegal and unsafe levels of nitrogen dioxide pollution? That's horrific. Actually, we walk to school and it's quite a busy road, so I'm very glad about these capes. I think it will help my kids too.

So to shine a light on this very pressing issue and to demonstrate ways we can tackle pollution, E.ON have partnered with Scamp and Dude to create Air Heroes capes for kids that help destroy pollution, empower children to make a difference on their walk to school. I walk my kids to school pretty much every day and I love the idea that there's something that I can do to help reduce the amount of pollution my children are exposed to. It's definitely a conversation that we've had at home and when we first unboxed it, we were really happy to see the cape it's one thing being told we can help reduce pollution by doing what feels like a magic cape but hey to see it in all its glory that's brilliant but i wouldn't want to reduce the air heroes cape just down to a bit of

fun the truth is it's making a real difference to tell the truth before my research this week i hadn't known quite how bad it is near schools due to idling cars often being near busy roads and children playing outside children exposed to higher levels than many are aware and add to that pollution's worse near the ground this means children often the first impacted by high pollution levels so joe why have you partnered with eon on this campaign well i loved the idea when they contacted us um the idea to kind of empower kids to actually be able to make a difference because this this magic fabric that they've got that actually traps pollution that just blew my mind

because I thought I'd never heard of anything like it actually and I was like wow this is incredible if we can put this in some little superhero capes and get the kids going to school feeling like little superheroes sucking up the pollution as they go that's pretty empowering for those children and for them to feel like they're actually doing something and also they're going to want to tell their parents not to drive to school because they're going to want to walk in their capes and I just thought it was a lovely campaign to be part of yeah it really is and the capes are gorgeous can you tell me a little bit about the design well I went a bit retro superhero with the design i wanted to go um i love all those really original superheroes and so i we chose some

some scamp and dew colors and then eon of um have an eon red that we brought into it and then we've used our leopard and lightning bolt so that's our superpower infused leopard print and our cheetah print as well and then the stars all over it and it's just a really fun classic superhero um cape design it looks a bit reflective as well is it a bit so that's got some yeah some reflective strips and that's i added those on because my um i love those my boys had some coats ages ago that had like reflect they were just reflective and they are amazing when you're out and the car lights hit them they just glow and yeah or walking when we walk in the country with them and then when you put the torch on them they literally glow and i thought i want some strips of this which for safety as well but also to add for the fun of it when they can see each other glowing

walking in their capes it's uh looks really cool yeah i'd be happy to be glowing i'm about to cape myself um that all sounds amazing and actually having seen the capes they are beautiful and thank you joe for telling me more about your collaboration with eon and also you can enter now for your chance to win an air hero cape not just for your child but for their whole class if you visit eonenergy.com forward slash air dash heroes to enter um your promotion runs until the 5th of november 2021 and's and C's apply. Look out for the cake. Stay great. I'm just, I mean, I was thinking through, obviously you've been through divorce,

you've gone from working in an agency to working in-house estate lawyer, setting up your own business, then already sort of starting the shift after having your boys to thinking, I want to do something that's a bit more works better for me so maybe aspects of where you found yourself that you know the threads were already there but I think is it something if you've had something happen to you like this massive health scare that's so significant is that like a is it almost

like joining a sort of club you didn't mean to be a member of do you sometimes meet other people who've had similar things and it's just a sort of understanding well I think since I launched Scamp and Dude I'm contacted very often now on Instagram with people especially people have gone through um if they have brain if brain tumors or brain hemorrhages or mine was called a cavernoma, which I had, which was a cluster of abnormal blood cells. So mine wasn't a cancerous tumour, it was this thing called cavernoma. And if they hadn't taken it out, it could have bled again and killed me because it was basically your second haemorrhage is always bigger than your first, and then it can be fatal. So it needed to come out. But the funny thing with the cavernoma,

well, not very funny, actually. The interesting thing with the cavernoma, well, not very funny actually, but the interesting thing with the cavernoma is you can have them all your life and not know, and they can actually not cause you any damage if they don't bleed. So I might have had mine all my life, but it was the fact that it hemorrhaged that was the problem.

Once they hemorrhage, and mine was like the severe stress put too much pressure on mine. Because the stress was a factor, you think? My surgeon says that that's what he thinks is, and mime is like the severe stress put too much pressure on a mime. My surgeon says that that's what he thinks is the probable cause because that's the only thing that was going on and that severe pressure in mime is probably what caused the bleed, not the cavernoma, that they just happen, these cavernomas. They can just, like I said, they can be there all your life

and you don't even know there's a problem. It's only if they bleed. And I know people have contacted me and they found out they've got a cavernomas they can just but like I said they can be they can be there all your life and you don't even know there's a problem it's only if they bleed and I know people have contacted me and they're they found out they've got a cavernoma but it's not bled and they're not having theirs removed and they're scared and I mean it's something I quite enjoy is talking to these it's usually women who get in touch with me to talk about how they're feeling because I like the fact they've got someone they can actually talk to because they don't know me so they can tell me they're scared of dying and they can tell me all these things they couldn't tell their friends and family which so I quite like that I can be that person for them and I obviously if they've got kids they we send their sleep buddies and we've

we also launched our scarves where for every scarf sold we donate one to a woman who's seriously ill just to give them some comfort because when I was in hospital I had a scar from home and I used to wrap myself up in it because it's so clinical and it's quite nice to have something from home and it's like a comfort blanket so that's been a nice um nice thing to do too but there's the support I think it's really important and I love the fact that they feel like they can reach out to me and Instagram's great for that because they can come straight and chat and I can try and help. And it's the same when their kids are ill.

They reach out to me as well. And I try and help raise money because there's a certain cancer called neuroblastoma where a lot of these kids, suddenly they've run out of their options for treatment in the UK and they have to go overseas for treatment. And these parents suddenly have to raise

half a million pounds. And you imagine if you're I mean we're used to working on with social media but imagine if you're not and you suddenly got to try and raise half a million so I try and help these families raise awareness for them to try and help raise the funds and try and get behind them and tell their story to try and because these it just must be so horribly overwhelming you've got your child fighting for its life and then money's standing between it getting the treatment that it needs it's heartbreaking yeah oh no I know and I think it's actually really nice to hear that you take such well you seem to cope very well with that

having opened that door to all those stories because I know um I spoke to a woman called Sylvia who'd been very badly burned as a as a small child when she's only two and a half and so she was trying to help people with um their scars and she said sometimes it actually got a bit much actually because people were kind of you know telling incredibly personal things and I know that sometimes those when those doors are, it can be quite a lot. But I guess maybe as well, I mean, six years is actually not a very long time. So do you find that sometimes you'll be busy getting on with something and then suddenly you're kind of back in that grey room with looking at the heater and thinking about things?

Yeah, I think it was times like this where I'm retelling it and suddenly I'll get a lump in my throat because I'll have not thought about it for a while and suddenly I'll remember how I felt and it all comes flooding back. But I think the hardest thing for me with the people that contact me and it's the people I build relationships with

that don't make it. So there's been a few of women who I've, I'd say I've become friends with and chat regularly too and then suddenly I'm just not getting a response and then suddenly I'll get a message from a husband to say they've passed away and you're just oh god there's been a few particular ones that really really upset me and there's one that's really very you know these funny things in life that happen so she was I absolutely loved this woman she was so brilliant she had three little girls and we used to talk regularly on um just on Instagram as well just

chatting and I told her about the letters and she was writing letters of the girls and for when she'd gone because she knew hers was terminal and we'd have a low we just built this lovely relationship and she passed away and her sister wrote to me to tell tell me and then her husband wrote to tell me and said you were on the list of people to contact and then strangely one one of my best friends from university contacted me and said you'll never guess what's just happened she said she'd moved house and there was a knock at her door and a lady was there with a scampandude jumper on and a bottle of wine saying welcome I'm your new neighbor and my friend had opened the door wearing a scampandude jumper and they went oh my goodness we're both in scampanjoo jumper on and a bottle of wine saying welcome I'm your new neighbor and my friend had opened the door wearing a scampanjoo jumper and they went oh my goodness we're both in scampanjoo and she went and Katie said oh it's it's my best friend from uni and

this lady went oh my goodness I have to tell you this story and it was this girl's sister this lady's sister who had died is now my friend's neighbor and I you know when you just think this is some people you're meant to be in their life I'm dying to go up to Sheffield and meet her and meet the girls. Because these three little girls have been left without a mum now. And it's so heartbreaking. But I'm still in touch with them somehow. There's some kind of magical things that go on through Scamp and Dude, I find. All these connections I'm making and these funny little things that happen that

some of them are heartbreaking but some of them the differences you can make just by being supportive to people and trying to help them and it's it's amazing well it's also about what keeps you know there's always that about people on their deathbed and saying oh nobody ever says I wish

I'd done more work but actually if you're getting out of your bed and have a purpose, and purpose in your work, and actually I think it gives you life. Yeah. And so I suppose, you know, those continuations of stories, they're all kind of wrapped up in the thing that's been your, you know, your baby really, this project

and this business you've been building. And, you know does it kind of sometimes that pressure we're all you know even if you haven't had a significant event as yours we're still living in a time when we're very much encouraged to live in the moment and you know seize the day and live your best life and all these things which can actually sometimes put a little bit of pressure on the day-to-day but I think when it comes to talking about legacy that's something I've started to think about a lot more in terms of like what is it you know you want to leave behind and does it kind of amaze you that actually you've built a really solid credible business

out of something that actually came out of just a quite an emotional instinctive response yeah massively and I think the the way that it seems to touch so many people and so many I think I think all parents know that feeling that feeling when in your heart when you when you have to leave your kids if I mean sometimes it's quite nice to leave them for a night you know you have a night off but when you if you have to leave them for a long period of time, it's that ache in your heart when you're just like, oh God. Or if they're upset, leaving them at the school gates. We all know that feeling and everyone knows what that feels like. And everyone, I think, can imagine what it feels like

to be separated and not know if you're going to be okay. And I think it just, people get it. They understand it and everyone has that feeling. And I think people seem to warm to it because they understand it. And then I think the clothes are joyful. And like I said, we're now 80% women's wear. So most of our collection is dresses.

Yeah, the other bit is actually the main bit now. Handbags and tracksuits. and everything's designed to really flatter and to be really massively comfortable, like this softest organic cotton. It is very, very comfy. It really is comfortable. I think that's why during lockdown we did very well because I think people wanted just to be wearing comfortable clothes

but to be wearing cool-looking clothes. But I always say there's a lot more to us than just cool clothes so people are always going on about how much they love the clothes but there's a lot more to us underneath and it's interesting because like on Instagram I don't often talk about the story behind the brand because I think there's a lot of people who've been there from the start and I don't want them to be like oh here she goes talking about her brain again whereas there's actually so many people joining the community daily that I do need to remind them about what's behind the brand and every time I do people are like oh my god I had no idea this is what you're about and I wondered why you did all this charity work and I'd had no

idea about that and so it's really important to tell the story because there's almost so many new people joining. And the community we've got is absolutely incredible. Like there's so, this amazing, loyal group of women who are just amazing, actually. It really keeps you going when you're exhausted and you're kind of like, oh God. Like you say, the juggle can be really intense

and then you've got this community that just kind of push you up and go, come on, you can do this. Yeah, and I mean, I saw something I was reading about how you have to be quite boundaried about your work because I think that's one thing that can be really tricky, particularly as it's something so born out of basically your relationship with your children and what was a very personal experience.

But beyond that, when you're actually building a business, there's times when you do need to be on the email and working from home, presumably, for the majority of it. So I read that you said you're very good at your boundaries. Is that something you realised quite early on? No, I mean, I had to be because it was getting completely out of control and I was trying to answer emails when I was with the kids and getting stressed with them because I was getting interrupted

and it wasn't their fault and I'd feel terrible and no one was getting the best out of me. And that was a really big turning point for me, was actually going, right, I'm putting my laptop down, my phone down when I'm focusing on the kids and then I'll pick it up later. So for those, when I'd pick them up from nursery or from school just to go focus on them and go I'm not I'm not going to look at my phone or my email until I've got them their tea and then when they're eating I can go and check my emails and yeah but not try and do the two together and that made a big difference

and also little little things which I still sometimes don't do very well isn't like not having a phone at bath time so that the kids know you're just focusing on them in the bath and because I'd be sat there answering emails and I then I suddenly thought oh my god they're just seeing me working and they'd be like mum stop working yeah let me stop working and you'd be like oh my god this is really bad but running your own business is intense and it's so you you do have to put the hours in. But I think we've got a much better balance now. Now I've got a decent team and I think that's made a big difference. So at first it was very much me trying to do everything

and then had a few freelancers helping a bit, but you're still very much carrying the weight on your own. Whereas now I've got a team and that's made the biggest difference. You have to get to the point when you can afford a team when you're at the size when you can actually have that help but that's that's made a huge difference for me where I can yeah I think as well as what's significant is probably if you've had a business you've grown like that and it's so intensely personal at its core how easy is it to invite people into that, to form that team? Yeah. Is that tricky?

It is tricky, but I'm quite careful with who I do bring in. And, I mean, so far, I'm touching wood, they're all angels. Because there's certain people that want to work for Scamp and Dude, and I always make sure that the heart of Scamp and Dude is what they're really into. It's not just the exciting bits and the fashion. And it's that they're actually really interested in wanting to help and come up with other ideas of how else we can help people and all of that. So I think I'm quite careful.

And yeah, they're all brilliant. They're all good hearts. That's what I always look for. Really good hearts. We've got a good heart? Okay, you're in. And are you still involved in the beauty industry as well? No, not anymore.

I mean, I still do the spa backstage at the Brit Awards. Apart from telling nurses they have nice eyebrows. Yeah, exactly. But no, I mean, I still have lots of friends in the industry, but not work-wise, no. I'm a bit of an all-or-nothing girl, and now my mind is in the fashion. I just have to give everything to that and yeah not kind of wonder yeah because I was wondering as well a little bit in in PR of

I don't know if this is true but I would imagine sometimes when you're you know raising a young family you have to give yourself over to that world so much and it's not just the nine to seven as you say it's the sort of job bit but quite often there's events in the evening and there's a lot of cnbc and the networking and all of that and i've often thought that must be really tough when there's small people you're going home to i think i think definitely i don't i couldn't have done that i mean how about how i used to live it was like it was my life and i was every evening i was out with different people and i absolutely loved it but it's hard with little ones definitely and I think there's a reason that PR really is a young person's

game and most of the people in PR are youngsters because how can you? How can you do it? And I think you just grow out of it as well I mean it's the last thing I'd want to be doing now Oh no, it's funny you say that because I looked at some pictures of people who'd gone to an

awards thing last night and they're all dolled up and it's all the makeup and the hair and the outfit and I was like, that looks exhausting. There's literally no part of that that I want to do right now. And I used to go out a lot to those sorts of things and now I'm just like, I don't know how I get the energy. And I think also over the last 18 months, I feel like there's been a lot more small businesses emerging

from people who've found themselves at home and thought you know what every the world's gone a bit wonky and what am I really up to what do I really want to be doing don't want to go back to that commute and the office work or is now the time to sort of take the plunge and do people come to you asking for advice about setting up a business they must yeah lots of lots of people um and I think it's I think it's always one of those things if you've got a burning desire to do something you should just do it I mean life is definitely too short and you've just got to it's horrible to end up going god I wish I'd done that and actually be miserable working in a job and not have taken the risks I think you've got to take risks. That's what, I think that's what life's all about.

You can have a very safe life not taking any risks, but to actually really be able to reach your goals and achieve things, I think you've got to take risks. Yeah, have you always been quite a positive person? Because I imagine some people might go through something that you went through and not actually emerge as much of a sort of phoenix through it, really. Because it could probably be something, these things these things you know you're always so shaped by the things that happen in your life anyway but with an event like that um it's important to

take own ownership of it and you've turned it into something really positive but for some people they'll probably be quite defined by it in a different way I'd imagine yeah I think I think that's basically down to my parents because I've got amazing parents I had a very um just quite an idyllic upbringing still really close to my parents they're just brilliant I think that they shape you they give you that confidence don't they and definitely um so I think that's that's probably what it was but I am very I am very positive I always look on that I think I drive people mad sometimes because something my husband especially because some he'll be like oh this and I'll go no but this but this and that he's like oh god yeah Pollyanna streak is not a bad thing I'm a bit like that myself did your both your parents were they both working parents when you're growing up yeah mum was a teacher and dad was a headmaster oh really yeah I have to at the

same school no different schools different school but it's so cute because everyone they were really loved and in the where I grew up we always bump into people that go hello Mr. Tatchanella or hello Mrs. Tatchanella everyone knows them and just loved them which is really it's really sweet I'm really proud when we're at home and they're all having gushing people coming over that's very cute and yeah they've played such a significant role in other people's childhood I mean you always remember the teachers you liked wow definitely um and I always ask people when I speak to them if they're the sort of mother that they'd

imagine they were going to be do you do you think that you are the sort of mother you imagined I I think I am but I would like I would like to to have more time and energy to play more. That's something I think I'm rushing around so much that, I mean, this summer holiday has actually been brilliant and it's probably been the time that I've stopped the most and actually spent time and done things together and we've had proper time off, which has been brilliant. But it's definitely something I'm aware of that I need to make time to actually you know get on the floor

and play more that's um I think we're always thinking of things we could do better and things we could be trying to do better but I agree with that but then I also think sometimes it's quite nice when you acknowledge the things that actually just aren't really the thing that's your strength you know and um there's lots of I don't know there's other as long as there's other people in their lives that are really good in those roles like I know that there's some things I'm better at than others yeah and so I'll be like I can do lots of that but you know other things just like I'll leave me out of that yeah well if one day went to play Star Wars and you'd be like oh god you're like I don't really know what to do yeah i wouldn't really want

to do that but then i'm quite good at actually making like the outfits to wear like the fancy dress side of the arts and crafty bits yeah craft yeah some face paint yeah i'm absolutely down with that i'll spend a long time getting that as right as i can in fact sometimes it's gone really really wrong and my well the second one down and the third one, so Kit and Ray both got very, very into face paint for a while, but then it turned into full body paint. Oh, my goodness.

Which sometimes is full body paint. And one time, Kit got really into, there's a character in Star Wars called Darth Maul. He's like black and red sort of lines all over his face.

And he said that he wanted to be Darth Maul naked. Oh, my goodness. Which prompted me to think, okay, I'm just going to look what that looks like, but don't ever write in any Star Wars character naked into Google,

because you just come up with lots of very specific, more adult-based... It wasn't helpful for my face paint. But yeah, I had to do this very careful, symmetrical black and red, all up his whole body. And he was very specific, that I had to include his willy as well. That's hilarious. So yeah well that's hilarious that's how he spent and then you let him wander around the house with

the face paints all over your sofas and yeah yeah i'm not very good with that yeah um i would come off then does it come off it does come off yeah water base i'm not putting on a sharpie um i'm trying to remember the three things you said were really good you know important practices for your for your own business and they all began with a p and I remember it was purpose oh no I do remember purpose passion and product is that right yes is that still how you feel about it I do I definitely do and this is when when people contact me and ask me for advice of starting a business I always I always try and say well, think of what you're about to do and what your idea is.

Imagine yourself still doing it in 10 years' time. Are you still going to love it? Because never think of it as a short-term thing. People come to me and go, oh, I've got this idea, and I thought I might make a bit of money, I might be able to sell it in a couple of years. And I'm like, oh, God, no, don't even go into it. You've got to love it so much

because you will never have worked as hard as setting up a brand I mean it gives me chills actually thinking about it those early days of having to do every single element yourself having to learn it all I'd never had I'd had a business but I'd never had a brand so production manufacturing and all the kind of the finances and trying to I'm not great with that side of things so here's me with all my spreadsheets trying to work out all that oh god it was uh it was uh when there are many challenges like in terms of people saying to you oh because obviously now we can sit here with it's got you know this amazing story at the kernel and it's successful but at

the beginning with you know just because you've got a good impetus for starting doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be you know plain sailing well it was I mean I was lucky insofar as like retailers love what we were doing and we we were sales were great from the start which I got had I guess because I'd got a history in PR I had really good contacts with the media so I had lots of lovely press coverage so people knew about us quite early on. And social media came quite naturally to me because of my PR background, I suppose. So I wasn't overwhelmed by that. And I really enjoy it. I love doing that. So that was kind of helpful for me too.

And luckily, people like the designs. And I remember when we launched the women's sweatshirts, and I couldn't keep them in stock. And I was suddenly seeing 1 a thousand people on the site and I was going, oh my God, and it was like crashing. And I was going, oh my God, I need more women's sweatshirts. And my husband was going, order lots more. Stop being so scaredy cat.

Order thousands. Like, come on, order. And I was like, okay, okay, I need to be braver. And ordering huge amounts more. And then when they came in, them just selling out and going, oh my God, I think I'm onto something. I think people like what I'm doing.

That's so exciting. Yeah, really exciting to see the journey and then to develop new products, to go into dresses. And that was really because I was talking at more events and going to more events and not being able to wear scamp and do because it was an evening do

and I wanted to represent the brand, obviously, and I'd be wearing other brands' dresses. So I was like so I need to make dresses why aren't I making dresses I wear dresses a lot I should make dresses and that was so exciting to go into a new category and make what in my mind is the perfect dresses so the most flattering pinching in the right places and and then bags and going into all these different things like we don't swim wear this um season for first time. And it's so exciting to be doing all these different things and to just think anything I want to wear

or I want to be using, I can design and make. That feels magical to me to go. And I've got a bag that I've recently designed. It's just my, I just design what is my perfect bag and then I'll design it and make it and then sell it. And then when other people love it too, I'm like, oh, it's so exciting. Yeah, that must be incredible. Yeah, it's a really good feeling.

And going back to the time in the hospital, have you spoken to your boys about it? Is it something that you've broached? Because obviously they won't remember that time, they're a little. So I haven't kind of obviously told them the severity of it but i have um we've talked about it and sunny for quite a long time he did remember he remembered the he called it the greys and i've never heard of anything that's that's kind of underestimated so much as calling it a greys i thought he meant maybe like the colour graze. No, little tiny graze on my head.

It's so sweet though. It was very sweet. Oh yes, your graze. Yes, my little graze. Tiny little graze across my whole head. I thought that was quite sweet that that's what he called it and then they'll refer back, I mean Jude was one he, I don't think he would remember so we don't

really talk about it but it's something that they know happened and they know I had a poorly head like Sonny will not go oh when you had your poorly head um but Jude was too small really yeah but they know what Scamp and Jude's all about and they know what's I mean Scamp was named after Sonny Jude was named after Jude so it's they're so part of it and they've been so part of this journey and I love the fact that they've seen their mum create a business and work so hard and that they can see that anything's possible and I always say that to them like you can have you could have a brand when you grow up you might have some because they always go you really love Scamp and Jude don't

you I go well yeah I do but you you could have one of these one day and come and be involved. And Sonny designed a print recently. He designed, he drew these little characters and I turned it into a print for one of the latest kids' collections. And him seeing his clothes in Liberty and in Fennec, it's amazing for him to see. It really gave him a little boost, which is cute. And they're very much part of it. Yeah, no, that's wonderful.

I can see that they're completely in the fabric of all of it. I think it's a lovely outcome from something so scary, but I wonder what it'd be like if you could kind of go back and visit yourself back at that sort of one o'clock in the morning time and just be like, I'm Jo for in the future. Yeah, you're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. Yeah, that was a very, very dark time I'll never yeah I'll never forget that but I think that the fact that there's

um such heart at the core of what you're up to is obviously so part of it's so intrinsic to what it is that you're doing so there has been something very very positive that comes out and all those connections as well there's other people that are all part of it and I think it's um and as you say with your parents I think so much of it is about giving your kids as well that thing of look we can't always choose what what hurdles we're going to have to jump over but there's a way to kind of redefine things so that you can actually carry it forward with a bit more positivity and what was it your husband said about living what's let's live are we living our best life I think the answer would be sounds like a yes yeah yeah um did you always want to be a mum is that always something that was part of your plan do you think yes 100% even when I was a little girl I was always knew

I wanted to be a mum and my um parents had my younger sister when I was five and I was literally the happiest child I'm pushing her along like she was like a real dolly and and then yeah I think mum was always thought oh god she I hope she just I hope she waits to have kids because I loved kids so much like I always loved our baby cousins and now oh it sounds very familiar to me actually that's quite so that is it just the two of you you're in a sister with three so I've got an older sister and a younger sister so my older sister is just one year older and then the younger one's five years younger but all my little cousins were much younger

and I just spent my whole time with them on my hip so yeah I definitely always wanted to be a mum I'm surprised you stopped at two you didn't go crazy like me two's enough I know it actually is I don't know how you do it I really don't a little bit mad

do you have any sort of mummy sayings that you say to your boys as they grow up? Actually, when I've said that, I'm thinking, do I? I probably have lots, but they would tell me. I think everything I say is a repetition of something I've said before. Yeah, and I do hear them saying something sometimes and giggle to myself going, there's a big one that's always, was that kind?

Oh, yes, me too what's that kind yeah do you think you're being kind that's always a big one when as they've got the brother around the neck yeah is that kind yeah I think before you say something is this kind is this helpful right is that and then I often if I say to them what do I say they won't remember it and I'm like I say every day about the kindness. I'm like obsessed. Yeah. Obsessed with the kindness. Yeah. Do you have like, it's quite hard to answer this maybe,

but what do you hope for your boys? Do you have a sort of hope for them as their mum? I definitely hope that whatever they do in their career, that they really, really love it. Because I remember, it's probably the only thing I've ever not agreed with my dad on, because my dad's like a hero. And I always agree with him.

I always go, yeah, you're so right, you're so right. And this is the one thing where I've gone, I don't agree. It's when I was a child and I said something about, I don't know, I was probably a teenager working, and I went, oh, God, work. And he went, it's called work for a reason. It's work.

You're not meant to enjoy it. And I went, oh, my goodness. I don't agree with that. We spend more of our life doing work than we do anything else. I've got to enjoy it. And I think Dad's now gone, yeah, I think you're right. I think that's the right attitude, and I think you should enjoy work.

But I think in those days maybe that wasn't the you you did you chose a career you stuck with it whether you enjoyed it or not and you you did it 100% no the generational thing is is I would say almost 100% of why he gave that answer yeah definitely I just don't think of it in the same way anymore no and I think for me I want them to make sure they do a job that they enjoy getting up for every day, never have that dread of going into work and just be doing something that absolutely fulfills them and that they love doing. That's a really big thing.

That is. I mean, that whole job for life thing was very much part of a previous generation. But similarly, I've realised that I've put so much emphasis on them finding something that they love. Sometimes that comes with the pressure as well. Basically, you're going to make it hard for them no matter what is the bottom line but yeah that that pressure of like well what is my thing what is the thing that's going to make me but then maybe like you sometimes it takes a little while to find out

exactly yeah and then suddenly all the strands leading up to the point it's like ah actually this pulls in you know your every element of the jobs you've had in the past and what you've learned and you're finishing school with us. And all these things, it all comes into play, but you don't always know it until you get there. And you can have complete career change. I was 40 when I set up Scamp and Do, so I had a complete career change at 40.

So that's another thing I think is important for people to think, it's not too late. When some people go, it's too late now, I'm just going to have to do this. It's not too late when some people go it's too late now I'm just gonna have to do this it's not too late you can definitely change your career and start doing something else 40 is young like yeah you can definitely change and start doing something else then if you want to yeah you know I love that I really love that and I'm always saying to people whether it be you know in a romantic way as well like with relationships and like never settle like there's never an age where it's okay to settle.

And it's the same with your work. You're right. You're so right. I love that. Yeah. I'm glad that you voiced that because I think that's really, a really important thing actually about,

as you say, it's never too late just to change it all. Oh, thank you so much, Jo. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I mean how many people have had a near death experience like that absolutely extraordinary I can't even really what it must feel like to be sort of alone in a hospital room

having just heard that your time might be up that's that's something that uh not everybody has experienced and how impressive that joe has turned something so stark and dark into something positive i think that's probably a bit of a running theme with everybody i interview really that they have uh positivity like that i think i'm i'm always quite fascinated and attracted to talking to people who can do that with things that happen to them and on that note of being positive I'm trying not to be too nervous at the moment because actually there's probably another reason my voice is a bit

so I think it's my body saying you know preparing me a bit, because I've got a book, I've written my autobiography, I can't even say it, I've written an autobiography, and it's actually got the same name as this, it's called Spinning Plates, because initially it was going to be a series of essays, borne out of some of the topics that come up on the podcast, so sort of, you know, being a working woman, raising a family, being in your 40s, blah, blah, blah. So I started writing a series of essays, as Hodra had suggested, and then I thought, actually, no, I want to write more than that. I want to write sort of everything, really.

And it felt really, really, really good to write down a lot of stuff that I'd maybe never even shared before. There's definitely some things I've written in the book that I think even really close girlfriends wouldn't know about me. But obviously, conversely, I'm just about to release it and now I'm thinking oh my goodness what have I done um so I suppose in a way the nerves are quite a good thing because it means I've been really honest and that's what I wanted to do at the beginning and if I could press a button would I change what I've written no definitely. I stand by it, but I'm still a bit freaked out. It's out in just over a week. And yeah, I think that's probably why I'm feeling a bit,

little bit nervous. So if you do read any of it, um, well, feel free to reassure me. I haven't overshared. Don't worry. I won't really put that pressure on you it's fine uh yeah anyway that's kind of it really I'm confessing to you that that's how I'm feeling I'm confessing to you and to Rizzo because she's still here I'm feeling Rizzo I'm feeling a bit nervous she says you're nervous about book coming out I've got a tooth coming out that's much worse you're right Rizzo you're're right. Perspective. Thank you, Pusscat. Anyway, on that bombshell, I shall leave you. I've got another really lovely one next week. Take care. See you soon. This is not about Facebook. Thank you.