Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 61: Jools Oliver

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Jools Oliver may be well-known for being married to chef Jamie Oliver but what I wanted to talk to her most about, was being a fellow ‘mum-of-five’. We talked about how we both coped with the eponymous ‘spinning plates’ of raising our children alongside our work, about how we both ended up turning the cameras on our otherwise private families during lockdown, and how we’re always trying to talk ourselves out of having another baby!Alongside her family life, Jools designs the 1970s-inspired Little Bird children’s clothes range which you will see as lot of in our house!During our talk, Jools also shared her painful experience of multiple miscarriages and explained the aftercare support that she believes women going through this should receive.Towards the end of our talk I heard about her close relationship with her wonderful mum. Also the poignant story of her dear dad who suffered a stroke when Jools was seven years old, and of their treasured café visits after school. Spinning Plates Podcast is Produced by Claire JonesPost-production / engineered and edited by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey, it's me and it's you. How are you? What's been going on since I last spoke to you which would have been about oh is that five five weeks ago six weeks ago um yes I have been traveling all around the country actually since then I went on tour during pretty much all of March and it was amazing and if you were there thank you I adored it I always love doing my tours and

I swear since the very first tour I ever did they're kind of always quite a special event I don't go on tour every year I do gigs every year but I don't go on tour every year and this tour was the first one in three years and it just felt really special and I think that was partly as well down to the fact that I've never done a tour that's as personal as the one I just did because ordinarily you release an album and then you tour that album and it's kind of part of the album cycle but this tour existed coming out of what happened during lockdown and the kitchen discos so I wasn't promoting anything it was just the other half of a promise that Richard and I made to ourselves when the discos were

happening that we thought wouldn't be amazing to do this in real life with real people all under one roof having a disco together. So being on stage and bringing a set around that literally recreated my home was really quite bizarre but really glorious and everybody came with pure excitement and positivity and joy and there were lots of sparkly people I was looking out on every night and I just adored it so yeah if you were there thank you and tell you what I also miss um now that I've come back I miss my horse because during lockdown I impulse bought a life-size resin horse which I then took on tour so even though I bought it during lockdown I didn't meet it actually until the first day of the tour which was in Birmingham and then I would start my

gigs sitting on this horse and it turns out I love starting a gig on a horse so I don't know what I'm going to do now when I don't get to start a gig sitting on a horse. I might just have to do that always. I've been to two gigs in the last couple of weeks and I thought, great gig, but where's the horse? You know, I now feel horse is pretty intrinsic. Anyway, I am now back with, crazily enough, series seven of this podcast. So I guess we're not far off the podcast's two year birthday, which has gone by, I was going to say quickly, it hasn't really, it's been quite

a crazy time, hasn't it, the last couple of years, but it does feel quite significant and I'm very excited to be back with it and having all my lovely conversations again. So in the spirit of trying to be organised, I've recorded, how many have I done already? Four. I've got another couple next week that I'm doing, just trying to pepper the month with it so that I get a lovely selection for you. And I started with someone I wanted to speak to for ages and I still, I suppose it's a little bit surprising in a way that I've never crossed paths with Jules Oliver before because I've done a couple of festivals that have involved her husband Jamie and um yeah it just wouldn't have been that surprising if Jules Oliver and I had not seen each other in a some festival field

somewhere at some point but that never happened so I sort of watched her from afar and she has the same number of children as me um so she's got five as well and that as you'll know if you've been listening to many of these it's quite quite a thing in itself because actually the majority of people I speak to have not got as many kids as me you know just it's just something I've noticed um and uh in fact I think I've only spoken to one person who's had more anyway um so Jules has got five they are the same as mine but like a little bit older um so I think her eldest is now 21 I'm gonna say down to the youngest who I think is around six I'm pretty sure Jules will clarify all of this when we're when we're chatting and um I love love love the range that she does for mother care the little bird range it really

speaks to me as a child of the 80s I was born in 1979 and the whole range is based on late 70s early 80s clothing so it was in mother care and it's now moved to next happily um so you can still still get the clothes and I genuinely think they're brilliant I mean if they did a lot of those little terry toweling brightly coloured rompers in adult size, I'd have a wardrobe of them, quite frankly. Very partial to a little play suit. But I've just bought a rainbow one for Mickey, which he'll look swell in when the sun shines,

which I'm sure it will soon. So yes, Jules and I, sorry, I get my words wrong. Jules and I spoke all things big families. We spoke lockdown, you know entertainment stuff because obviously we did discos here but she and Jamie did a cooking program from home with their kids involved um we talked about having a similar inability to say no to the idea of making our family bigger even though we know that's kind of loopy because the family's already huge um and she was very open about how you know how much she's wanted a sixth baby which I really um appreciated her honesty actually and she also speaks honestly about the times when it's not

worked out and her miscarriages which I know is been a really helpful conversation to have for lots of people as well so without me waffling on any longer, I will hand over to Jules and I, and it was lovely to speak to her, but above all that, it's really lovely to be reunited with you. So thank you for finding me here and welcome to Spinning Plate Series 7. Oh my goodness, that's crazy. See you in a minute. I was really looking forward to speaking to you because I feel like we could just spend all the time just sort of having stories go back and forth of being mothers of five.

And actually you're the first person I've spoken to who was a fellow mother of five. It's so true. That's exactly what it is. And there aren't many actually. spoken to who was a fellow mother of five. It's so true. That's exactly what it is. And there aren't many, actually. There's mothers of four and mothers of five. Are you five boys? I am five boys.

So that's also something new to me as well. Yeah, and I feel like when I had four kids, I felt like I was still quite a big, small family. And then five was like a small, big family. You've sort of gone into sprawling territory. Yeah, it's it's hardcore it's really hardcore but I still want to do more yes what is that about because I totally relate to that do you yeah I never I always knew I was not like people say to me you're gonna have any more and I can't form the sentence no it like it just sort of like can't come out my mouth yeah I agree with you I don't know if that's because I'm getting older and I feel a bit midlife-y, so I want to feel I can still produce a child, but I think it's more than that. I just, I don't know, I just don't feel done. I desperately

want to feel done, but I just don't. But I'm going to have to live with that, I think. I totally get it, and I think, I've always said when I had my fifth, I said, you know, I probably won't have another one. That was the way I kind of found a way to because people look so shocked people have quite strong ideas yeah yeah like you're a weirdo but I don't I just thing is they all fit in quite nicely and they're also quite good ages it's not like I have five all at once I have three really at the moment and the other two although mentally it's quite draining but you know it's it's doable I love So you have the same gap as well from top to bottom as I do because you've got 14 years, haven't you?

Yes, so the eldest is nearly 20, 19, second one, and then it goes 12, 11, and then River 5. What are your ones? The youngest is three. My eldest will be 18 in April. And then I've got a newly 13, nearly 10, and six. Yeah. I can't imagine what it's like to have five boys, I have to say. I know it is very different, but I can't imagine what it, I mean, it must be just quite noisy.

It's not, I always say five of anything, really. I mean, I think, and I don't know if you agree with this, but I think in a big family, kids tend to have this ability to sort of find the thing that hasn't really been done too much of before and then go for that yeah I think in this little society they kind of it's like foam or something they sort of fill the gaps of what's not been not been done yeah so I think it's quite a spectrum really so I have some noisy ones and some not so noisy ones yeah true exactly the same as me exactly the same but all wonderful it is all wonderful and it's a lot going on and I did I did one day so the first thing I want to speak to you about

was little bird which is a huge part of our lives and so you've been doing a new range is that right yeah so new collection mother care ended and during lockdown next appeared which is amazing for me so it was kind of something to do whilst we were kind of bored I suppose and then it was all online so we designed all online which is kind of I still think it's a bit crazy but now obviously we can get together and we can feel and see and touch but it's just kind of gone really well it's just sort of picked up where mother care left and it's uh probably doing even better so um yeah I'm really happy with it that's phenomenal and I think we also want to raise a sort of virtual toast to mother care because that was something from my childhood. And I think for me, who's got absolutely loads of little bird clothes,

it all kind of tied in with my own childhood, my own association with seeing that on the high street. And then all the colours and the fabrics. So I'm thrilled that Nex are taking it on because I knew it wouldn't go away, by the way. Even when mother care went, I was like, little bird will carry. No way. No, straight away we were like, we're not going anywhere. We said, no, let's come to work out where we're going to go.

But, you know, it was, we were very lucky. We were in good places. It wasn't a problem. But next just seemed like a really good fit. And they seemed to do really well with the kids' clothing. So, yeah, it worked really well. Yeah, it's brilliant. And presumably that's the sort of stuff you wore when you were small, too.

Completely. And all the stuff, I've got pictures of us, myself in Mothercare and my sisters. I've even got, we took all, we raided mum's wardrobe and all her kind of old trunks and then we just basically ripped them all off and they're all basically half mother care so uh now we're kind of run out of stuff to do so we've got to think we've got a little bit 80s we've got a little bit you know we just keep jumping but it's quite easy I love it it is fun and it's also quite a rich aesthetic isn't it that whole thing the. The palette is so recognisable, I think. Those primary colours that you get in the 70s and early 80s. It's such an instinctive thing just when you put the two things next to each other

and you go, oh yeah, I remember that from when I was small. And I think that when you're a kid as well, the way things feel like, I don't know, velour or it's got like a felt bit on the front. You're so connected to the way your clothes feel when you're little exactly exactly sparkly we wanted to reenact those the sweatshirts had like the sparkly kind of I don't have one with like dinosaurs kissing but it was like it was horrible but also beautiful pink with like a necks weren't too sure but one day we'll see and just for you personally how how sort of significant is it that you've got

you're now a boss of this incredibly successful clothing line is that something you always envisage yourself doing not really I was just thinking kids mum everything quite kind of normal I was just really pleased to stumble upon something that I was quite good at and I understood and uh but I yeah I didn't really think about this as being sort of a future thing I'd like to do loads of other things I just don't know what I want to be a midwife I want to go back to school and do politics I don't know what I want to do I'm everywhere all the time but this is quite nice just to keep me quiet it keeps me going so uh yeah I do enjoy doing it that's interesting I mean, you just mentioned quite diverse things there, midwifery and politics.

So how does that manifest in your world? I have no idea. I think midwifery would be something I've dreamed of. I don't know why I missed it. I stupidly went into modelling, which is the worst thing. And I think I just missed that boat. And now I kind of keep saying to my girls, please, or my sons, please be midwife. Not interested at at the moment so I don't know that's just feel like that's something I'd love to do and everyone keeps saying it's not too late it's not too late but I don't know I don't know what I just want to do lots of different things but I gotta calm down and just kind of I'm quite happy as I am but there's lots of nice things I think left to do that I want to try yeah yeah no I don't think I don't think being looking outside yourself and wanting things to evolve and having momentum means that you're not feeling good about where you are and in fact some

ways feeling like you can explore those bits of your mind is a sign that you've kind of got lots of life around you you know there's so much vitality isn't there when you're it's exciting isn't there it's just something family yeah exactly it's just exciting it's just exciting to sit down and think about what you'd like to do even if you never do it I'm with a husband obviously my husband thinks about something, then does it. So it's quite stressful. So he says, write a book. And I think, yeah, whereas he'll start writing a book, whereas I'll just think about it until I'm 80. But I like the idea of thinking about things and possibly no pressure, no pressure, please, but possibly. Well, I mean, talking about your husband and it's relevant not so much because he's in the public eye, although obviously that's a lot of why people would know your family a bit, I suppose, alongside your clothing.

But I think also because I always imagine that being married to someone where their vocation is so much part of their life, that that takes up a lot of space in the family too. Yeah. So how easy is it for you to find these spaces for yourself are you quite good at that yeah I'm quite alone now I love being I love dropping the children off and being I like to go for coffees with friends but I'm soon as I've done the coffee I'm back out with the dog I love to go for walks I love nature I don't know if it's just my age but I'm obsessed with nature so I just I find yeah I find we live in a very normal household with I don't find any of Jamie's outside work coming into kind of the home life apart from when we have to do filming which we

all dread but we do to support him it's kind of ah but um that's his world but we don't mind popping into it but apart from that it doesn't really it's just a normal family very normal at home doesn't feel like his world encroached on ours at all no I suppose it's just that in a good way I suppose when someone does something they're passionate, I suppose it's just that, in a good way, I suppose, when someone does something they're passionate about, I mean, for me, I'm married to a musician, so that's got that same sort of thing where it's kind of, you know, and the hours can be, you know, not conventional,

and sometimes you'll be very sort of distracted and focused in that world, and, yeah, it becomes normal because it's the world we know and we don't know any different. But I mean, sometimes, I don't know, I think this is a huge generalisation here, but I think Richard has always been much better at giving himself permission to let that completely take over his headspace.

Whereas when I've got the kids, I sort of realised this actually hugely during lockdown. I kind of, because I have my work outside of the house mainly, I make sure I'm incredibly accessible to the kids at home. So I never really had my work here until I had to have my work here, if that makes sense. Yeah. So how do you separate your five, your children with your work?

How do you do it? Well, it used to be going elsewhere, really. So as soon as I'd go to a studio or I'd go on tour um that was where I could really just go and kind of unfurl all of that yeah and then when I was home I just I always felt like it's not my children's choice that I had five and it's not my children's choice that I do what I live it what I do for a living so whilst I'm happy to set a good example of doing something you love and getting much pleasure from it and working for a living and all those things yeah I also didn't want them to feel I don't know threatened by it

I suppose yeah the right word yeah well they feel they must come first especially well mine do they have got to be there or I've got to be there at every single possible moment and you know I'm not I'm not always but I am always around James said you always make yourself available you know need to be a bit more go to London go go see friends I think well I just I kind, but I am always around. James said, you always make yourself available. You know, it needs to be a bit more, go to London, go see friends. I think, well, I just, I kind of promised I'd be back for the school run. My 13-year-old's put a lot of pressure on me, which is ridiculous. But it kind of feels natural to be there rather than in London or doing something else. Whereas with Jamie, probably like your husband, it's just that he finds it much easier to go full on in and love it.

And be totally happy and come home to a very happy home. But that's because I'm making it happy. So I'm helping him with that, I suppose. Yeah, definitely. And I suppose when you're talking about the filming, I was thinking actually you and I had a similar lockdown in that there became a focus that kind of gave you something you were doing to connect with people. So when you were doing the home cooking stuff,

what role did that play in your lockdown on a sort of more day-to-day level? you were doing to connect with people um so when you were doing the home cooking stuff did it how what role did that play in your lockdown on a sort of more day-to-day level it was a bit stressful it was stressful because he was just so full-on and he was really enthusiastic he was treating it like it was like I was a producer and I was a camera woman and I knew everything and there were so many times I'd be crying and I'd go I don't want to do this and then he'd just go right get on do it now and I think like this is so not natural to me but then it became part of the then it became quite fun we got the kids involved and the daily routine we got used to it so um yeah I quite quite enjoyed it actually it was all right in the end but it was just messy

and dirty and I was worried about the cleaning and the kids I was just worried about everything and he wanted me to focus on this filming for like two hours in the morning and we had to do homeschooling didn't we had to do homeschooling, didn't we? We had to do so many other things. You know, it was all such a bonkers time. So bonkers. I don't know how we all came out of it pretty much normal. I know, and actually it's quite nice when you sort of can look back

and there is at least a sort of, I mean, I'm sure this happened in lots of families in lots of different ways, but there's sort of like an angle. It's almost like you went here, it was like a sort of day-go version of how we cope with general stresses and strains in the house. Yeah. So for us, if, you know, we need to kind of flip the script or celebrate or de-stress, we'll put on music and jump around.

And I guess that was all in our kitchen too, which is always the heart of the home. So I guess in a way, both of us had this thing of like, sort of, I don't know, putting a magnifying glass over something that's actually was already intrinsic to how you live. Although you had to do the camera work, which is the flip of things. It just used to get so moody and I thought, how can I min it? And then you'd realise when I got upset that actually it's not my job. But it was good to be together, I suppose.

I mean, that was the whole point of it, wasn't it? We were all together and that was just the way it was so yeah and you're right it was all the only thing we used to do was dance in the kitchen that was the last ending I'd go right it's time and then just think oh god's sake and then the old ones would come in and just do that and then walk off but it was the only thing you could do it was I think it was a lot of people's houses was for me it was kitchen dancing which is exactly what you did it was exactly what we wanted to do at the end of the day it was cleaning getting everything ready for the next day and then just having a bloody good laugh yeah so much cleaning oh my goodness that was my

other role is like which actually I don't mind doing but just seem to be eternal and the bizarre satisfaction of when I get to the end of a basket yeah and then obviously just starts again no problem I mean you mentioned there when you were young and you were modeling so presumably your girls were around the age did you is it right you went to Japan when you were a teenager yeah yeah went did the usual did the classic kind of the the modeling kind of decade was was kind of just normal I kind of peed it off as soon as I could get out I did but yeah I was in Japan for three months which I kind of hated 17 oh that's so little young isn't it when you look back and you have a different view of it now that you've got kids around that age yes I think about my 17 year old I mean she's probably quite my number two probably would have been fine but now I just think you know

you're left you're dumped in a small little flat there was kind of a kind of cockroach in the fridge and I don't know in those days you weren't treated brilliant so it was a bit kind of I just can't believe I did it I'm very pleased I did it and it was what an experience what an opportunity but I would hate my girls to go through that I would have just flown straight out and got them but in those days mum didn't have the money to do that we had to stay our contract and that's all I thought I had to do but yeah I spoke to um Kat Deely the other day for something and she had done the same at 17 she'd gone for three months to Japan and she said she looks back now and she said it was actually she wasn't she didn't have a particularly dramatic childhood and she came from quite a small town so

for her it was like I can't believe I did that actually it's really bold to just go somewhere so so different yeah completely and kind of be stuck there and you just have to you know you fend for yourself really and that's the way it was it wasn't luxury or anything like you imagine i'm sure as you know but um yeah it was an experience i'm glad i've done it because i wouldn't do it again i'm not a great traveler so i'm glad i've got those things out the way and have you been back to japan since then god no i said to jamie last night i will never ever he's like you're such an idiot episode's I said, I will never go back there again. Just because I, well, I think I've done it now.

And we just wasn't very nice. There was a couple of earthquakes. I just don't know. I just, I couldn't see. I know it's incredible country, but I couldn't. No. That's not for me. That's interesting.

He's just like, no, I've done that now. It's like, you know, it's not like you went last year or something. It might have changed a little bit. I think it definitely has. And I could probably go a little bit more stylish probably go to some nice hotels but you know no I'm okay I've done that you've done that you've done that and so is that what you were doing when you had your first baby were you still modeling around that time uh no I'd given up by then I was kind of done I was working at the BBC being a researcher and a runner and yeah that was way behind me and did you always want to be a mum is that

always something that you had in your head yeah yeah definitely once I found the right man I thought right you know it was in my ever since I was little I had names in my head and just the way I wanted the roses around the door and the cottage and the simple life which I kind of got which is amazing um yeah always I didn't know mum of five particularly I thought maybe like myself like I'm one of three I thought that'd be fine but I definitely my family on my mum's side too oh yeah so what do you think it is about us that means we've got that thing where you just want to keep having small people I don't know I don't know what it is I just I don't know I just I love the small I love the small start I love the beginnings but there's not one bit of actually I mean tantrums can do a

miss but they go away through anyway so it's kind of stuck with those but yeah every aspect I love the beginnings. There's not one bit of that, actually. I mean, tantrums can do a miss, but they go all the way through anyway. So it's kind of stuck with those. But yeah, every aspect. I love everything they do at school. I love their singing voices. I love their plays. And I mean, there's so many things that drive you insane. There's so many bad things and difficult things, but there are also so many good things.

I just feel a bit obsessed with it. I just really enjoy their company. Yeah, and the busyness as family life it's a very I find it quite an addictive thing but I have to say it's really nice to speak to someone who feels the same because uh you know a lot of people uh don't yeah yeah yeah exactly and also you sometimes get I get criticism sometimes as well I mean do you have those things where people say, be a bit sort of, I don't know, I think the most common one I get is to do with sort of planet overpopulation and how I'm being really irresponsible.

And if I ever say anything like I'd love another one, oh, God forbid, I'm not only am I 47, I'm selfish, I'm old and I'm, you know, I've got enough. And I get all those, but I just can't believe people even say things like that. Just that's not the point. The point is I'm happy and that's what I'm doing and the kids are happy and move on.

I just can't see it. Yeah, I think there's something weird that happens sometimes. It's always more about the other person when people have got a very strong opinion. And sometimes I've sat next to someone, I don't know, let's say a friend's invited me to dinner and I've ended up sat next to someone and they'll have quite a strong idea about the know the kids I have when I think you'll

never meet them you'll never be invited around to mine so why on earth does it matter like what do you want me to say and I'll just say it and then you go home happy and I go home to my real life yeah yeah just drop it oh just be kind and shut up no time I did see another thing I said is what you said about how you'll be kind of relieved when the door is closed to the possibility and I totally understand that as well yeah um and obviously you've been brilliant about talking about miscarriage and I'm so sorry you've been through that thank you um I grew up in a home where my mum was trying to have a baby so a fourth baby and actually ended up having ten miscarriages. And she's spoken about that too.

Oh, right, yeah. And she said that sometimes when people already have families, young children, people can be a bit more dismissive about the idea of having another. But actually, you very much know what it is you're not having when you've already got a family. Yeah, yeah, completely. Yeah, it's in your head your head it's stuck there and it's kind of you know you can't you can't change it I just I'd love to I've even got some spiritual help to stop myself

wanting this need you know this need that didn't work so you know I know it'll come to a natural end but then I'll think of something else and I'll say what about have you thought about adoption Jamie you know there are plenty of other things I've thought about I'm sure it will I'm sure things will take over in life you know there's a way the world works something will happen and we'll have to do something else and you know this will be by the wayside and I'm extremely happy with what I've got we and I'm sure you know we we have to keep saying that because I have to add but I'm very happy with what I have which of course I am but you know life's too short and I want to just push those boundaries and be even more happy yeah and I think it's funny actually it reminded me um I want I don't know if you were there

actually but uh Jamie was doing a festival that I was at and he got talking to Richard and I think at the time I just had maybe baby number four or maybe number three and I already had a glint in my eye about having another one and um and Jamie like asking us both, oh, how old are you? And then when I said, I think at the time, let's say I was 37, maybe I was, yeah. And he went, he just turned to Richard and went, you're fucked, mate. She's got the same look. I recognise that look. But sometimes there's a sort of painting in there of like the sort of hapless husband.

Like Richard sort of almost plays the part of like, oh, look at all these kids that have kind of sprung up around me, but I don't really buy it. Yeah. I don't really buy it. That's so funny. That's all Jamie's little narrative for everything is, oh, I've got all the jewels in the mag.

I think, oh, hang on a minute. You bloody love it. You're involved. You never said no. And, you know, it's all part of it. Yeah, you love it so shut up yes but I guess something that is tricky for your family is and you know you've spoken about before so I hope you don't mind me asking about it is you said you had one miscarriage that sounded

like it you nearly died yeah it was a that's not something that that's a sort of like a different atmosphere isn't it when it's medically serious like that. Yeah, that was, well, that was the, yes, that was the first, no, that was the second one. So I was kind of thinking the first one was bad enough, you know, the shock. But the second one was just, it was just explosive. And yeah, and Jamie was there the whole time. And he did say, now we have to stop. And I went, no, I agree.

And then within like the next day or so, I was, maybe we could just see what was wrong. We can double check, you know, and so we did I agree and then within like the next day or so I was maybe we could just see what was wrong we can double check you know and so we did it again again we kept doing it but um yeah that was that's definitely given me I hate that saying PTSD I don't really know what it because I want to make sure I said the right way but it definitely has given me kind of I will never get over it so I can get over the other one slight probably never get over any of them actually and I don't think you're meant to I don't think that's the way it's meant to go anyway so um but it hasn't stopped me even in the throes of that to keep going well I suppose there's a shift in emphasis because if you're pregnant and the pregnancy doesn't happen then you've

you're focusing on that that sort of that lane of traffic that you started to move into and then you're focusing on that lane of traffic that you started to move into and then you have to kind of quantify that with where you are. You know, outwardly, nothing's changed, but something has. But when you've had a trauma that affected your health and you do have a young family, then it's got concentric circles that go beyond what might have been to actually, oh. And I think also, I don't know about you, but maybe up until then, you hadn't really, I don't know if you've had good pregnancies, maybe you don't quite,

you sort of feel like, oh, you don't realise how fragile you can still be. Yeah, exactly. I thought I was kind of, you know, doing brilliantly. You know, even after the first miscarriage, I thought, oh, that's just pretty standard. I think that probably was about to happen. But then when it kept happening I just thought hold on a minute this is not the way then as I got older everything was against me I was thinking oh god it's just all too much I've got to learn to stop really I think for my health I would I'm quite pleased that we we probably won't try again because I just don't think it's I don't know I just don't think it's

a great I want not especially my older girls saying mum please don't because we just want you here and I think actually I've got a I have to think about the others it's not that necessary so um so they're like mum you should be a midwife this year I got on New Year's Day I got texts from my daughter Daisy saying mum you've got so much to give you're really kind just be a midwife like don't try for anything else oh that's so sweet what a lovely message it was a really nice it was a good it was a good news message a whole thing of how i've got to change my life and do things that made me really happy and that's quite sweet really yeah that is really sweet and i think i know that when i was pregnant with my fifth um it all turned out all right when the baby was here but initially sonny was my oldest he was 14 at the time and he

was not digging that he just said you know there's only two parents and there's so many of us already and i think he's it was the first time one of them had sort of voiced concern for how they'd actually get access to you, really. Yeah. Because actually the teenagers need you so much. Oh, God. It's so much more. It's a fallacy that it's easier in that way. Yeah.

Oh, my five-year-old, although slightly bonkers, is much easier than, you know, my older girls. And they're both away in university, but I'm FaceTiming them probably seven times a day, mum, even from how do you turn the dishwasher on to how do you, or boyfriend, you know, it goes on and on on boyfriend issues, and it's kind of like, just let me have my lunch, sometimes just switch my phone off, I think that's really bad parenting, but I can't talk anymore today. No, no, I get that completely, I've got one child my second one down and I don't think he's he's not needy with me in an open way it's more like I think he thinks I'm sort of his PA so I've sometimes I had it once where I was away for

work I was in Poland and I got a message from him and I picked up and he went my bus isn't here and I found myself going on city map and say there's one coming in two minutes that was so funny that's exactly what my daughter was going to mom I need the opalette opalette shampoo and dish I think you're you've got your own amazon like why am I why am I continually given jobs you know you can walk down to boots now you're able to go it's like you can go to the doctor you do everything you need 20 but I find myself going I'll just go online because we fix things that's what we do yes and actually I quite like that I quite like problem solving yeah this is what a problem is come on there's got to be a way out of this exactly so true yeah and with your big girls about your teenagers did you find so have you got two teenagers or three yeah uh well yeah almost 13 year old so say three yeah cool and did you find the little ones

were quite a good tonic because I think there's a nice relationship that comes out of that for teenagers when there's a a new young person in the family and a baby I totally agree especially well now Petal's 13 so we all go and school run together in the car and a baby I totally agree especially well now Petal's 13 so we all go and school run together in the car and I think although there's all the issues if River does something funny you know then it's all back to like and they all kind of bring back they just feel a bit younger again as opposed to sitting on their phones and stressing out they've then got this kind of humor from River or even if a fight happens it's kind of it brings it all back to normal so yeah I definitely think you're

right with you and with yours as well the same age that they they really focus especially on lockdown as well they had this little person to kind of annoy and be cute with and yeah they're definitely I think it's a great thing especially for older ones to kind of bring it all back to normal yeah I kind of feel like they should have a sort of I don't know some way of interacting toddlers and teens that's kind of like a regular thing I don't know in schools or something because I think yeah there's something about the purity of the exchange that's actually really good for their heads non-judgmental bit of being silly bit of being responsible yes quite nice I agree yeah completely agree with you yeah I like that as well so so going back to

your work so you know this the podcast is called Spinning Plates because in my head, that's kind of how I think of it sometimes. Is that something that you, does that resonate with you, that idea? Definitely. I think it's, well, we all say, I always go, I'm so overwhelmed today

or I'm, you know, that's not my thing or I said to the children, I think that's because I've got too much going on. It's like, I think there's a saying, like I'm not an octopus or I don't juggle stuff. It's basically the same thing. It's too many spinning plates, but it's not like I've got loads going on it's like what do I always say I think there's a saying like I'm not I'm not an octopus or I'm I don't juggle stuff it's basically the same thing it's too many spinning plates but it's not like I've got loads going on but for me I'm quite kind of a perfectionist so everything has to be done properly and and that's what takes the time perhaps but um yeah in our house it always feels like that everyone's just trying to do everything all at once and it's a bit overwhelming

but um but I think if it goes quiet it's dead boring isn't it I agree with that but how does perfectionism go along a busy family life I don't I'm trying to picture well how how much how easy is that to achieve it's hard it's really hard yeah the house is immaculate and it's kind of at the detriment of you know some things so you know I make sure the beds are like during lockdown it was hell because even if before school work you'd have to write we're going to do the house clean and they'd be like mum I've got to go online I said well let me hoover behind you so uh I have that yeah it drives Jamie mad I suppose it's an OCD but it's just something that if things aren't right then I then can't function with the rest of my stuff

and that's really important to me I'd love to just drop it sometimes I think I'm gonna leave that there we'll leave that sock there and I walk away I think now I'm gonna go back to that sock so it's very difficult can't bear it so uh yeah it's quite tiring it means I have to do I'm always a bit late for things because things have to be right before I actually get in the car but it's capable I'm actually really impressed by you by now because um I've always thought in my head somewhere there lives a woman who has the same number of children as me and a lot of things going on like me but she's actually just getting it all a little bit more right and I think maybe it's been you I'm sorry it's actually me I am the best mom with five kids exactly no i promise you no no no because i

no i fed and loads of other things it's fine i just managed to get a very tidy house very good drawers that's it oh i like that though i might not tell richard about that that's i'm very messy so okay if there's lots going on and things are really you know they're full sort of kilter of you know the glory and the chaos of family life and work and everything what are the things that you're first to kind of let slip what are the things where you can go okay that doesn't matter that doesn't matter nothing really it all gets done I don't know now I'll let slip which is bad probably the food so the food was so for example

I think I'll start it we're all going to have bored eggs when they get home for tea like I won't worry so much about making the amazing gourmet dinner which I plan to do so the food will slip and I think just yeah I just yeah perhaps homework will go I'm not too worried about I'm not I don't focus so much on academic studies we haven't got really academic children they're all a bit creative so they all struggle slightly in different things um so I probably let that that I mean during lockdown we let that slip big time I learned to write with my I did my left hand and just did stuff for them move that way I'll do it for you just get it done then we can go out and play so uh yeah that would I would let that slip and probably let my work slip if I could meant I could go for a walk I'd just think oh I'll do

that in a minute and I definitely put my phone down and let all those emails and WhatsApp slip as well. Yeah, that's a good thing to do. And I think I'm completely on the same page with you as having quite creative kids, but for them, they don't all learn in a typical way. And I've found getting them through, I didn't really realise what school was like for those kids until I started raising them um and I just I just wondered if you found it quite stressful I mean you know I could probably talk about that for a long time in itself because I get quite sort

of I don't know uppity about about how education is such a rigid format it's so wrong education is so wrong and every you know the only thing that was good that came out of coronavirus the fact that my daughter didn't have to sit her a levels she did what she did but in a different way constructive way and it was just it saved her the stress the stress of school is so unnecessary i don't i don't get school myself i don't i don't get how they teach i don't understand the subjects they teach still um it just needs jamie and I once wanted to open a school years ago we had this idea but obviously it's not possible but in our dream you know like the dream school which I'm sure most parents would love and it just slightly fits your child completely but it would

not be so focused on the way it is now on this academic pressure and these pointless exams I like you I could just go mad it just drove me mad drives me mad yeah I'm the same I feel like you just got to get on the other side with that with their morale intact really because the world is wide and full of really interesting people and some of my favorite people to speak to about things I don't you know they haven't got many qualifications and that school was not their place always yeah but what a shame that we have to just get them through it I feel like yeah mentally just get them through it get them but it's quite a lot of years to get them through so it's kind of you've got to find the right school and you know there's no perfect school but you do your best and you

just hope that there's lots of outdoor space I just think oh have you done any sport today anything that gets them out of thinking about all this education because you know it is what it they'll be what they'll be and it is what it is and they'll try as hard as they can. It's great if you're academically gifted, it's amazing, but if you're not, it's a bloody hard slog. It is. Broadly, are your kids having a similar upbringing to your own? Do you think it's quite similar? Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, pretty similar. We now live in Essex, so they go to a school in Essex, which is a bit different to the one I went to, but similar. I live 20 minutes from my sister and half an hour from my other sister, 20 minutes from my mum. So, you know, my mum was an amazing mum. So whatever she did, I think I've done.

And James' mum is also incredible. So we've kind of put those all together and just a really basic kind of, you know, they have a touch with a really lovely childhood. It's just really simple. Hopefully nothing, you know, touches that that especially about Jamie as well seems to affect them so it's fine it's just very normal and do you think it's been something you've been conscious of sort of keeping that kind of grounded aspect to what their to their actual day-to-day

yeah yeah definitely not to mention just always said you know just just be humble for god's sake kids be humble if you're not humble then we have failed as a parent just be kind humble I don't care what else goes on I could have some manners as well it would help but um yeah so that's why and they're not really involved in anything Jamie does he has his own office in you know he they could do they could have done loads of things and we could have red carpeted out of hell and heaven and just had a great time but we didn't and I didn't so I think the kids have followed my lead and they also don't so it's quite nice really yeah I think it's healthy to have that perspective really and actually from my point of view the fact that my kids don't bat an eyelid about what I do for

living is actually really I really like that and I love the fact that when I come in through the door it's all about what they're up to you know yeah it doesn't matter you know they're never going to ask me what my set list was but they will ask me if I can remember the characters to like the films they're watching or the cartoons yeah exactly they don't care if you've been with so-and-so and recorded the most yeah and you've been with some huge celebrity because the kids don't care because I know him and they go oh of course you do but and I was like gosh you have no idea like that's really amazing but now to them it's just zero interest they are well anyway by nature self teens are always a bit selfish anyway so yeah I don't really care what you've done all day you know they like to tell you what they've done I remember you saying

earlier that you didn't really know you were going to have quite so many kids so it wasn't like you thought oh I definitely want to have a huge family yeah so what happened with me I think is I sort of had one and it really knocked me for six actually like the life change and sort of adjusting and then I actually waited quite a while and it's sort of it's almost like something that kind of gathered pace until I got to baby number three and on the day I had him I was like I want to have another one yeah yeah what do you think do you think it's almost like the hormones or something I don't know it's true I did one I had the first one like you it was just oh wow god what the hell's this and then Daisy was a little accident she didn't

you know we didn't intend to so she came very quick and then I was just thinking then I needed a break you know I was so shocked so we waited like six years but it was it was like it was gathering it was underneath like the like bloody leaves and wind and suddenly it was like I think my sister said she was announced now she's pregnant I thought that's it it's time I've got to get going and then I did the same too you know but yeah it is it's exactly like that I didn't intend I mean I wanted to but I had I felt I needed a breather I needed to just kind of like lay down and it took me six years to get over the shock yeah having two it's just like what how close are they how close to your first two so they're a year exactly Oh, that is quick.

It was really, I think I was three months, well, Poppy was three months, and I thought, I feel really sick. And I thought, no, literally. And I went, I weed on the stick, and I thought, oh, God, no. I was really upset. I thought, what am I, I can't cope. But of course, then, you know, it gathers again, and it all happens, and it's absolutely fine.

But it was a shock. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I haven't had any of mine that close together, but yeah. And I think sometimes, you know, every time there's a new baby sort of in the offing, there's always a part of me that goes, have I just gambled? Have I just gambled with everything that our family life is about? Yes. So true.

Especially with my last one um when i found out i was pregnant i actually thought oh golly i've really done it now i thought i thought i wanted another baby but now it's actually possibly happening and i phoned my mom and i said yeah uh i think i might have really mucked up and she was really good because she just said there's a reason why it takes nine months because it just gives you time just to kind of get your head around everything yeah yeah I think definitely for three of mine I've gone oh my god oh no like what have I done the wanting and the needing now I just feel selfish I can't cope but um you know it always works out in the end you do always manage to cope somehow you do and I think the kids that come

along you feel like oh there was never ever going to be anyone else like of course it's them it's almost like the family just sort of shifts and adapts to have this extra person of course yeah but going back to if you don't mind you're being so brilliant about talking about the babies that you've lost what's the reaction been from people that you've been so open um I think pretty good I mean I don't know do you mean uh media wise or just kind of friends more sort of I suppose just how things come to you really um yeah I just think personally I think it's really brilliant because I think there was something you said actually that really touched me because um you said about why don't we have

any sort of aftercare for miscarriage? Because women almost expect to just go home and deal with it. And why is it not that someone phones you up and says, hi, I'm your midwife and I'm just checking in and how are you feeling and how much blood today? And I just thought that was a really, to me, that's a really huge logical thing that should happen. And would probably shift the narrative as well. I mean, I'm dying to campaign sometimes have these ideas but they don't get as typical like everything else doesn't really happen but I'm dying to get that to happen because I just don't there's lots of it's amazing now the talk and miscarriage is incredible and everything everyone's

doing is just amazing but there are some things I suppose indefinitely in people's personal experiences they then fight for that thing they need but I just think that was for all five of my miscarriages the aftercare and I was looked after brilliantly was just well it just wasn't there you know it was there at the time and then obviously the weeks that passed but I may not have nearly died had I been checked on daily as opposed to just kind of right come in and get your you know we'll get your DNC done but leave me for five days but you need to you know why was no one your D&C done, but leave me for five days. But you need to, you know, why was no one telling me, kind of asking me, helping me? And I just don't know why that isn't, you know, we have a health visitor, don't we?

So it wasn't just a spontaneous thing. There was actually, you already knew that was in the process. Is that right? Yeah, so with the second one, I'd been told, obviously there was no heartbeat, to wait. And I wanted to do everything naturally. I thought, I'll wait, I'll take, you know, I'll do everything as it comes and it just didn't come so I carried on but I shouldn't have I kind of went to concerts but no one didn't tell me I thought if I take the

kids to the park and walk up the hill it will make it happen a bit more but what they should have said is actually for god's sake don't go anywhere because you know that's twice that I put myself in danger by trying to do things because I just felt and it's I don't think it's it's not normal it's not normal to have a dead fetus inside you and get up and do the school run but we do and the millions of women do and we and we go to my daughter's concert and try and go to my son try to do everything plan my kid's birthday party and uh and it was all too much probably it was all too much doing that anyway maybe some people do stop but because no one told me that actually potentially this is you know also mentally this is not you shouldn't be doing this mentally so um oh god I'm so sorry I think you're right I think that is something that a lot of people just get on with especially if

you've got a young family yeah yeah it's expected so many things when when there's family life around us and um i i've been very lucky i have had one miscarriage but it's very early and i remember going to work and almost having this sort of there's a sort of a horror to it and also almost a fascination that this was all happening and you know it was sort of simultaneously quite sort of loud and violent, but also so private. So I was thinking, this is so strange. My body's doing one thing and I'm having my picture taken. You know, it just was bizarre.

I think if you could look back on them, you know, and you just think that, well, I kind of, when I did the podcast before about it with Zoe, you kind of think it's almost it's not magical that's not the right word but I know the word like it's so it's so powerful and it's so personal and I said I wouldn't change those things the world I don't think I had to go back and obviously I'd love to have 10 babies and have those five that I had but I don't know and it made Jamie and I much stronger the bond was so much more you, it brought us so close together. I don't know. It's just the experience that the club you don't want to join, but you

have. And actually it's kind of wonderful as well, but I don't know why it's wonderful. I can't really explain it. Yeah. Well, I think for me, there was something about the unsentimentality of, of, of the process. I thought my body's just decided this doesn't work. So it's just gone. of the process I thought my body's just decided this doesn't work so it's just gone and it kind of made me I don't know I slightly I slightly respected that I suppose but maybe maybe I'm being I was being a bit more analytical because I was really early on and I hadn't really had much time to think about it I'd only yeah no I was pregnant for about two days so maybe maybe I was able to be a little bit detached in that way um but that's how I felt I was like wow my body's just when it's right it just goes for it and you could probably be pregnant for ages and not really know and the baby you know I just feel like the fight for

survival when it's right is really strong and when it's and when there's question marks your body can be equally as yeah strong in saying that's not happening yeah exactly and I felt kind of divorced from it in a way because I really realized that oh people always encourage you to think you're in control about oh how many babies you want all this kind of thing but that's just it's just not completely no you're not exactly that so it's so true you think you're in control you. You're not at all. It's all in the hands of someone else. Nature, God, it's just there and it's just, you know, and there's nothing you can do.

Kind of I feel that as I come to my journey of end. I think, well, that's probably, you know, a bit like it's all in the hands of if it was meant to happen, it really would have happened. And I think, you know. Yeah. And the way it's better to have it be nature deciding for you rather than you kind of umming and ahhing about whether to leave the door open for it or not. Yeah, no, completely true. Exactly.

And now that you have got girls that are really, you know, in sort of adult territory, does it feel like you're still learning about how to mother that age group? God, yeah. I think I'm still learning how to mother. Well, each child is which we know is different so I River's very different he's the most different child I've ever had so I'm learning he's like having a newborn although he's like having a number one all over again and then mix that with the teenagers and kind of trying to be mother be able to talk about sex and boys and be able to be really good about that and be open and trying to work out what kind of mother am I going to be am I going to be a little bit like this am I going to say

no alcohol or because ideally I want to say no alcohol no sex nothing but I'm kind of learning that that doesn't it's not the way it works make it more fun so I just so I have to be all cool and it's hard and they built the girls know that I'm you know it's and then of course then go back to your five-year-old and trying to kind of parent this new little person is uh yeah so different every one of them has been different and every one has been a lesson and and continues to be a lesson to me definitely yeah I feel the same and and do you feel like for the the youngest one can you sort of see how much they gain from having all those siblings around them yeah I don't know if it's about I don't know how bad it is it's like a sponge because literally I don't know if it's because they don't get heard so they're a very loud very noisy and they're kind of he absorbs all the girls what they say

and obviously you know swearing and and good food when number one nothing bad happens it's just perfect and as you go down the line you find that the kids may have said something like the swear word you think oh they've heard it from the 19 year old who's on the phone yeah you think oh my god this is so bad but I can't keep the house pure anymore it's too late oh god that's so I remember screaming when my eldest swore he didn't even swear it in use he just said I know what the f word is and he's only about five and I said well what is it and he said it and I went I screamed yeah because it doesn't sound right yeah those days are gone I know it's true yeah now it's just anywhere and every time but yeah those sorts of things I think yeah number five pulled I don't know what I don't know what

number five has to go through but um it's either extremely fun or shocking or it's just like a big sponge he absorbs every day yeah i think they become quite like a little bit like royalty actually because they sort of can rule the roost and they're always the little one everybody's pleased to see you yes there's a lot of sass in my smallest i'd say a lot a lot yes it's the same it's the same thing it's because they've got that confidence as well which the others don't seem to have but he seems to have gained all their confidence and sucked it out of them and then he's like when he walks the room and everyone just goes oh but she's uh it's kind of annoying yeah and when you're saying about what next I think you know you'll probably be like my mum and be angling for

uh grandbabies that'll be the next on the horizon I know it is it that is so true but I kind of not quite yet it stresses me out but obviously it will be I'm told it's just a wonderful thing so well I can see from my mum and you're sure from your mum it is incredible for them it's very exciting do you have your are you close to your mum I think you posted about her just the other day was it her birthday yeah she just turned 80 yeah very yeah very close I mean you know I probably phone her four times a day school run on the way home before I had my coffee school run on the way there and then the night time so she's like hi it's standard I

don't know I don't know why we're just very close well all three of us are uh maybe growing up without our dad was made as much closer as it kind of you know as a full of women force of women but um yeah she's amazing this is you and your sister and your mum is it yes two sisters yeah and mum and so I didn't realize you'd lost your dad when when was that I'm sorry well it's actually thank you it was 1997 so it was a while back and I was about 25 but he was ill for a long time so my mum looked after him he had a stroke so he was ill for a long time so the dad I had when I was up to the age of seven is a different dad to the dad I have from seven until 25 uh yeah about eight years old to old. So she kind of looked after him for a long time. So I've got so much respect and admiration.

I just think she's incredible. So I hope I've learned so much from her. So I was a bit confused there. So you've got, they had a stepdad. No, sorry, sorry, that didn't explain it well. So yeah, when he had his stroke when I was about seven or eight. Oh, I see, the dad you had. So he changed

yeah from being this dynamic amazing city stockbroker to complete disabled on one side not being able to talk no work you know the whole thing he wasn't the dad that I left for school in the morning for so kind of everything changed but my mum adapted to that and she kind of was just his total carer but he lived with us until he died in 1997 but you know she was amazing so we have relied on her so much now I feel like it's her time even though she's 80 to kind of you know well she deserves a lot really yeah well I don't I don't doubt it I mean if you're still looking out towards politics and midwifery I'm sure your mum's that must be quite a dynamic woman too to loads of plans still so much to be getting on with um yeah 80

actually yeah but that's a big thing to grow up with with your dad I mean how how does that how does that shape you that experience oh I don't know I perhaps should have gone I perhaps should have seeked some therapy over I don't know it was it was it was brilliant I mean I I look I was I was so proud of him and I'd kind of he'd after school he'd of him. And I'd kind of, he'd, after school, he'd pick me up. Well, he'd kind of have to take his stick and hobble there. It'd take him an hour and a half and I'd wait for him. He'd be late. It would be embarrassing because he'd be dribbling and he'd be kind of, he'd be paralysed on one side and I'd take him to a coffee shop. And I think, I don't think my children would be able to do that now, what I did with my dad. And I was so proud of him,

yet kind of, you know, he really was very disabled and we'd have our cup of tea together he couldn't really talk but we were very close and then as I kind of got to my teenage years obviously I became a selfish teen and that was that my mom had to you know my mom was at home with him but uh yeah we were just we're just a very very close family but it was yes it was so hard not having a dad really because we didn't after after he kind of had a stroke that was kind of it my mom lost her husband we lost our dad he was just kind of there very importantly but just there yeah and your mom I suppose had to keep him as present and as part of things in sort of both ways if you like like how he how he was but also his character yeah yeah which she desperately tried to do and she kind of

she the nurses said he'd never walk again and she of course got him walking although it was with a stick but and she wouldn't adapt the house because she said no no we're not adapting the house we're just going to do as we were which meant she didn't have to like carry him up the stairs but she just did and it worked and and it was it was we had a very happy very very happy childhood apart from that you know she managed to shield us from anything and I'm sure there was lots of horrible things she had to go through but we were just happy going to school and doing our thing wow I imagine the older you get the more significant that stuff is actually that's actually amazing that she managed to keep that stability and yeah keep you feeling like you're you know family and that this is just where you were at and the new reality it was happening. And I mean, getting him walking again,

that's incredible. I think she was about 40. She was much younger than my dad, but I think she's about 45. And I think, God, that would be touch wood. That's like Jamie and I, that I can't think about it with young children and then making sure that we didn't turn to drugs

and drink and all the other things kids do, which we didn't. And I just think, how did she do that? that's why I just can't you know my admiration for her it's too much I just think how do you were just incredible because as a mum I think god that would just that would that's your life gone you know that's your husband that's it so uh but she managed to do it and she was incredible so yeah she sounds amazing so when you call her these four times a day you just do you just sort of talk over everything like this is happening with that kid I've got this project happening is it just sort of an overview yeah sometimes we'll go for an hour about in depths

of river and you know the host character and what did this that and the other and you know and then we'll go into like Daisy and what she's doing and how amazing and and then we'll just there all there'll be really quick conversations like dinner food dog walk we'll see you later bye so this is very familiar I'm like that with my mum actually she's the person I don't think I do anything without asking my mum about it like I have to know that she's okay with stuff really that's so funny it's exactly the same I really respect what she says and if she didn't like anything I just don't think I could probably do it so what does she think about um when you were like with your family life like how does she

because it's it's funny isn't it when you you take a lot from your childhood but then you end up having a bigger family than your than you came from yeah yeah yeah exactly well I think she was like oh you boo which is my nickname you're not you're not going to still keep going are you I said well yeah I might do I might not and then my sister's one's got three children one's got two so uh they you know it's the understanding joke I suppose you know you know what it's like oh god you're not going to keep going on oh my god you've got a massive family you've got five billion kids but um no she's loved every minute for her it's brilliant she just keeps getting little babies so for her it's been amazing well that's lovely and it means that if your family follows suit and mine then we're going to end up with the potential of 25 grandbabies that's exactly why I moved house because it's a shame we need

we've got boyfriends and we've got kids and like we need to be somewhere quite big oh my god you know what I'll put a date in the diary now so I can talk to you for the podcast I do about grandparenting oh really oh god you get me in I love it oh jules thanks so much for your time it was absolute pleasure i could have spoken to you for hours i feel like i mean it's just so nice to talk to someone where there's so much overlap yeah it's really lovely um well you know what we should get our kids together five five kids to get 10 kids in one room and a nice roast dinner you can do some dancing that sounds like i think we only get invited to people's houses if they've actually got sort of approximately 10 other children so yeah i'm free every weekend brilliant i'll put in the diary

so that was jules oliver who I really enjoyed chatting to. You could probably tell I was thinking, you know, we could have kept talking for a lot longer. I felt like there was a lot more stuff we could continue chatting about. And I especially loved hearing about her dad, actually. I thought that was really affectionate and affecting and, you know, I'm sure a very significant part of her childhood. And doesn't her mum sound amazing? Anyway, so that was a really lovely way to start off series seven and as ever you know what I'm going to say probably but I love hearing your suggestions I have often interviewed people that I never would have thought of

purely because someone's put a message in the comments and I've sort of done a little bit of looking up and thought oh yes good shout with that um and I've already of done a little bit of looking up and thought, oh, yes, good shout with that. And I've already got some very interesting people. I've already recorded everyone from someone who spends their days doing postmortems to someone who spends their days doing hula hooping or motor skates. So, you know, you can't say it's not varied. And what else is going on? Oh, actually, oh, this weekend. Okay, it's going to be really lovely,

but we've got two quite significant, so April around here is silly season anyway, because it's Richard's birthday on the 6th. It's my birthday on the 10th. His dad's on the 5th. His mum's on the 11th. Our nanny is on the 21st. Our old nanny, Claire, she's the 8th.

She's like families. We always celebrate that too. My eldest is going to be 18 tomorrow, so that's the 21st. Our old nanny Claire, she's the 8th. She's like families. We always celebrate that too. My eldest is going to be 18 tomorrow. So that's the 23rd. And on Monday, the 25th, there's going to be another birthday, which is Ray. He's going to be 10. So Richard is also away all weekend except Sunday. So I am organizing bits and bobs for birthdays. And it'll be really lovely when it's happening. But right now I'm in that slightly like tizzy bit where I realise there's lots of things I've kind of left quite last minute. I don't know if you're the same as me,

but I always feel like I've got this really long run up and I think it'll be fine, it'll be fine, I'll organise it. And then before I know it, it's kind of day before. Maybe I'm just one of those people who's a bit last minute. I mean, it does all kind of seem to just about hang together, but there's definitely a just about element in there. And don't tell him, but I'm getting Ray a hamster. Any thoughts? Is that a good idea? And don't worry, I do know really that the only way you could tell him and

ruin it is if you went back in time, because by the time you hear this, he's already got a hamster, but still, right now it's a a secret and it looks like a very nice little hamster I've reserved him um I actually got him a reduced rate because he was from a litter and no one bought him so he's kind of like the most senior hamster in the shop but he's very cute we've been to visit him already and I haven't told Ray directly he's getting him but I think he's got a good idea anyway it should be should be fun. New member of the family, incoming, small Syrian hamster. I will let you know how that all goes when I speak to you next week. But in the meantime, really good to be with you again.

Thank you so much. You know I love doing this. And I will see you in a week. All right, lots of love. Take care of yourself. Bye-bye. Thank you.