Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 63: Lisa Eldridge

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

Lisa Eldridge is a make up artist with her own brand, who has also appeared on TV in ‘10 Years Younger - the Challenge’ and in a documentary series which I adored, called ‘Makeup: A Glamorous History’ about the manufacture, use and politics of makeup. She grew up in New Zealand and then Liverpool and was at the top of her career, flying around the world and doing fashion shows and Vogue covers when she became pregnant and had her son. We talked about how Lisa managed to enjoy being a mum to the full, and then reignite her career once her son was a teenager She also told me how her son and stepson are of similar ages and very much like brothers.I share Lisa’s passion for makeup so it was fascinating for me to hear about how her love affair began with her mum’s old Mary Quant collection, how she started collecting her own vintage cosmetics with a box of Biba makeup she bought for a fiver, and has gone on to acquire some incredibly personal items including Audrey Hepburn’s lipstick holder.And of course, no conversation with Lisa would be complete without hearing about the co-star of her you tube videos, Ted the talking cat, who acts as her fashion adviser and stylist!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis Bextor,produced by Claire Jones, and post-production is by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates Hey, how's it going? I seem to be liking living life on the edge at the moment and can't keep picking fairly risky times to Record my hello to you because at the moment,

Richard's out, it's Saturday afternoon, the kids are all over the place. The chances of me getting through this without anyone spotting that I've gone to a quiet corner is pretty slim. But hopefully... Oh, OK. Mickey's dressed as Peter Pan. Oh oh mickey it's gone right under that so i'm just getting a ball from under it uh for supper we're gonna have corn chowder

tonight okay uh in a minute um yeah so how's your week been I've been away actually for this week. I went to record a lot of my album. It's not quite finished, but we've done absolutely tons. So we spent nine days in the studio in total recording 13 songs, which is a lot of work. So it's been pretty intense, but really brilliant. Everybody in the band's been playing really well. The album is sounding really cool and

interesting i've no idea what people will make of it because leading on from doing you know kitchen disco-y things this isn't really a disco album but there is pop there there are some dancey bits there's some proggy bits. There's some synthy bits. It's quite eclectic but quite bold. So hopefully people will be into that. I'm pleased with it. And yeah, that's been my week. And Richard's album came out yesterday.

So that's The Feelings' seventh album. Is that right? Which is wonderful. It's a really great album. I'm really happy for them. It's an amazing long-term relationship that band has. I'm walking while I talk to you to escape my kids. So, yeah, exciting weeks.

That's Lost Hope Love, their album. And so, yeah, quite a musical week. Nice to be getting back to all the day job stuff, back to gigs and stuff on my summer, festivals kind of from pretty much next weekend onwards really lots of lovely stuff and it's been a nice day and i've got a lovely podcast for you today someone i've wanted to speak to for ages lisa eldridge so lisa's a makeup artist i've worked with over the years. But we haven't seen each other recently. However, I've been a fan of hers from before I worked with her, actually, because her name was sort of so well-known.

And then we worked together, and then I kept following her. And I loved, if you haven't seen it, the series that she did for BBC about the history of makeup is absolutely beautiful. She's a really engaging presenter because of her passion for the subject matter it really comes across and it's really very oh hello what do you want what are you miming a coca-cola oh it's quite late in the day right go on then go on then go on then saturday um yeah so it was really lovely to speak to her and hear from her side of things

how she's managed her career and motherhood and also building her business because she now has all of her makeup line as well. So that was lovely. And she's a very soothing voice. I think you're going to love having her voice in your ear. Very calm presence. I would probably need a bit of that.

I found... I don't know if it's because I was away during the week, but I found aspects of this week quite stressful. On that note, someone's crying. See you on the other side. Me again. I thought I should probably come back on to let you know that actually it was a stubbed toe, not anything more serious. If you could hear what I could hear in the background i.e a big scream from mickey he stubbed his toe that does really really really hurt doesn't it but he is all right now he stopped crying already

i thought something awful had happened anyway over to calming lisa oh a couple of things i should probably mention one thing she talks about doing test shoots because you might not be familiar that test shoots are basically at the beginning of working in fashion industry where you do your job i.e photography lighting makeup modeling but you do it for nothing because you're trying to build your book so when I had my brief little time in modeling that's what I was doing too lots of lots of test shoots where you work for nothing trying to build your book I know she brings up that and the other thing is she mentioned matt and marcus who i said i worked with matt and marcus were the photographers who did my read my lips album cover they worked in such a quirky way there was the pair of them and

they would take turns taking pictures so that when you got all the contact sheet developed, you didn't know who had taken what shot. So I don't actually know if it was Earl Marcus that did the cover art for my Read My Lips album and all the press shots and everything. But that's how they work. So, yeah, they're absolutely brilliant. Anyway, I think that's everything. Mickey, are you all right now?

Yes. Good. All right, cool. What do we have in branch? You already asked me that. Corn chowder. All right, see you in a bit. It's really good to see you again, and thank you for coming over. So lovely to see you.

Really nice. Well, let's start with the here and now now what's happening with you at the moment with everything you've got going on um well I'm still working as a makeup artist so I still do my makeup jobs and clients I try to do a bit less of it now so I don't do like as many shoots as I used to because I'm interested in my brand and getting my own makeup out there and doing that as well. So I'm kind of still doing the makeup because I love that and that's my passion and that keeps everything else informed.

Yeah. But I'm really concentrating on my brand and I did a TV documentary series and I'm hopefully going to do another one. Oh, you must yeah i really loved it did you oh thank you so this was a series documenting the history of makeup yeah so it was it was just more because it we shot it during lockdown we didn't know that was going to happen actually because it was originally going to be more based on my book which is kind of like the

whole history of makeup and then obviously the pandemic happened and I thought well this has just gone forever and then after the first lockdown the BBC said oh we can shoot it now but we were just so limited in what we could do so we only did three episodes and we just did three decades so sort of the 1860s the 1780s and the 1920s because and just British history because we're only able to get into you know a very few museums and a number of museums and stuff so but it was still really fun and uh considering it was so we filmed it all throughout the second lockdown so it was amazing that we even got it done so but actually maybe in a way that sort of focus is I mean there's so much to get out of even just those those decades and just being here there's loads absolutely I mean it was even hard

in an hour to cover that any of those decades yeah especially because I was making the actual formulas so I was going to kill university and making all the dangerous stuff which for me was amazing because I've always been so fascinated by what did the really poisonous formulas look like did they just look better than the non-poisonous ones so like with the white paint like the ceruse I always used to think well why did they still use lead when they knew that it was really dangerous so when I made the lead version and the non-lead version I was like ah okay yeah it does look nicer I not that you'd risk your life for it but I could see why they'd make those choices um so for me it was like yeah I was in

my element I was every day was like oh my god you know talking to incredible people um making all these formulas doing makeup yeah you know using original formulas which was fascinating because it is fascinating yeah and also it made me think a lot more about I mean I've always adored makeup but I think you know we're now so used to walking into you know along the high road and being you know you can get access to so many colorful amazing things all the time I sort of forgot you know about the history but also the you know social ramifications economic, but also the, you know, social ramifications, economic ramifications of what people were doing to their faces and what it all meant and the signals they were sending out and, you know, the culture basically of what everything else was

going on in history at that time. So it's really lovely to think about all that and kind of modernise the way that the mindset of the people that were making those choices, what it meant to them to get dressed up in that way. Oh, yeah. I all so political and it's it is you know lots of people have messaged me said oh I'm a history teacher and I'm going to use some of this to kind of engage maybe younger people in history because you can tell so much about history from you know not just what we know about fashion but hairstyles, beauty, perceptions of beauty, what people used. And there's just so, it's just a really nice gateway into history and it's sort of colourful and fun. And almost, you can always tie it to modern day as well.

So there is that link all the time over and over again. And for me, that's why I got so obsessed with it in the first place. And for me, that's why I got so obsessed with it in the first place. I just loved that it was a window into history, but through such a colourful and beautiful world. Yeah, that really is. And I suppose as well, it's like, recently I was at the Victoria and Albert Museum and there were all these paintings.

And actually there was that thing where, these paintings were from the late 1800s, early 1900s. But you know when all the faces suddenly look really modern to you? They all had that thing and you could, they just all looked like faces you'd recognise, like you could see them out and about. And it's just that incredible thing where you think, you know, sort of that link back to history of like,

these are just people. Just like you and I. Exactly. Yeah. And some of the concerns were exactly the same. Like when I was looking at, particularly in the Victorian era, when, you know, women were supposed to look perfect and naturally flushed and beautiful and flawless and all of this,

but not allowed to wear any makeup. So it's like the no makeup, makeup look. It's, you know, they were constantly trying to get that look. And as they got older, of course, you know, there was terrible constraints on, you know, if you wore makeup, it was even worse and you'd be really criticised. And then all these kind of salons popped up around Bond Street doing these sort of, you know, dubious treatments and makeup that was supposed to last for sort of three months. And it was £1,500 in modern money to have some of these makeup treatments done. And that was

just really fascinating and it really resonates I think like nothing has changed you know it's still this um sense of you know if only got to look sometimes at comments about people wearing a lot of makeup oh she's wearing too much makeup I'm like god this sounds exactly like some of the things that I read in the Victorian era or ancient Greece, I mean, it just hasn't changed. So just looking at those connections and thinking about makeup and why people have vilified it almost for such a long time is really fascinating. It is. And I suppose, as you say, there's so many mirrored things

about what's happening now in terms of the risks people take with their health and their face in search of looking beautiful. Yeah. You know, so we've still, I mean, that's the takeaway from modern times, isn't it? Oh, completely. Because I remember, like, I made some mouse hair eyebrows in the show and we weren't going to include them.

And then I think it was the producer's sisters got a cat and it killed a mouse and in the end the props guy, they made these eyebrows. Great timing. They didn't tell me. And then they said, oh, we've got these eyebrows. And I a mouse and in the end the props guy they made these eyebrows they didn't tell me and then they said oh we've got these eyebrows and they opened it and I was like um and I kind of stuck them on and everyone was like oh my god it's like so embarrassing awful like can you imagine and I said yeah but I would never do them but there's mink eyelashes available now people do mink eyelashes which is you know i can't bear it but i'm like so is it that different to that i'm like they're on sale now and they're like oh my god you're right

you know there's always these parallels and um also not everybody putting my mouse eyebrow these are just options oh yeah no these were i mean you had to be yeah i mean it was it was makeup at that time in the georgian period was very much about status and wealth and money. Unless you could just make your own if your cat also just killed a mouse. Yeah, and then you could just have a go, make some little eyebrows, wonky, self-made mouse eyebrows. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, I interrupted you making a very serious point. Yes, the status of having these things

and that you had to be wealthy to be able to afford to do these things yeah yeah you needed money although ironically the people that didn't have money that made the natural formulas were actually healthier and not killing themselves and probably looked just as good as the um the wealthy elite that were using the lead the mercury for the lip color and you know all those all those dangerous things. Yeah, absolutely. And where did this fascination with the history of... Was that always there synonymous with your love of make-up as well? It was, actually. It was.

It started because I saw... We came to England from New Zealand and we lived with my granny for a while and I had my mum's bedroom, I guess, from when she was a teenager and she had, like like a chest of drawers you know those little mini ones with they're all cardboard drawers yeah and it was just full of her old makeup so how old were you then so I was like six probably and I didn't I wasn't that interested in the makeup she was wearing then I don't think I was like I have modern day makeup but I loved

this old stuff more probably because it was more gloopy and it was like the Mary Quant crayons and all this like, I don't know, it smelled different. It was more over the top probably. The colours were very childlike, which actually is right because in the 60s all the make-up was very childlike. So I loved all of that and I used to draw with that and I used to draw, I guess, face charts. I didn't know there were face charts then. But I used to draw with that. And I used to draw, I guess, face charts. But I didn't know there were face charts then.

But I used to draw faces and put makeup on them. And I always used my mum's old makeup. So that kind of started my love affair with the objects, I guess, of makeup. The things and the smell. The packaging. Yeah, the packaging, the textures, the smells, all of that. And then it was drawing faces really that got me into it and then um once I decided I wanted to be a makeup artist after someone gave me a book

for my 13th birthday about theatrical makeup and I was like oh my god this is it I want to be a makeup artist and then I just always loved the history stuff I always liked if I went to like jumble sales or something if I found old bits of makeup and um I remember finding like a box of Bieber makeup in Portobello Road market wow and it was a fiver and it was this box of like amazing blush colors and they're all really vibrant and crazy and I and I bought it and I remember the woman being a bit like you know couldn't believe that someone's paid a fiver for this old makeup um but I was yeah I was obsessed with it yes I guess there's a story there as well isn't there that's what I love I love the story like I've got things that are really really expensive and crazy like famous like I've got um Audrey Hepburn's actual lipstick holder that her

son sold me and it had still had some of her lipstick in and her lip marks and all of that so that stuff people can recognize as being iconic and incredible and it was very expensive but i've got like eyelashes from the 1930s or things that just look so loved and so kind of like you just think at that time to be able to go and buy fake eyelashes no one would you would have had to be a movie star to have fake eyelashes so maybe just some regular girl went and bought these eyelashes and you know with her wages or whatever she put them on she felt like a movie star and they're just so looked after you can tell they've been worn like so many times and kept so nicely in this little box

and the box is really lovely and I just think stuff like that tell me a lot about how how treasured makeup was at that time and what it meant to like regular women and I love that side of it yeah and do you still have some of the things from when you were a teenager and getting your own first bits and bobs not really do you keep the things that you had like the mary quant stuff your mum had you still have yeah i've got all the mary quant stuff and then i got collecting i started collecting properly yeah when i first got that beaver stuff that was so that was years ago that was like god nearly 30 years ago and i was just yeah i got this box for a fiver and then after that I'd like see something

like interesting it was really cheap back then I kind of shot myself in the foot when I published my book in 2015 because I was going on and on about vintage makeup it's amazing look at all these pieces and then within about 12 months I'd go on to an auction I'd be like hold on a minute this used to be £2.50 how come it's 250 quid oh yeah this is the face paint yeah it just got people um more interested in it and um yeah anyway I already had an amazing collection by then so I had everything I I wanted by then really yeah but I think I love the idea of those those eyelashes and that connection and as you say like the sort of there's a tenderness isn't there it's like the intimacy of those eyelashes and that connection. And as you say, there's a tenderness, isn't there?

It's like the intimacy of something that someone looked after that way wore over and over again and it became their thing, their special thing to make them feel better. And then after the end of the night or whatever amazing day they'd had, just put them away again for the next big memory, you know? Yeah, I love that idea. And I think at that time as well, you know, in the 20s, you were kind of still considered a bit of a harlot

if you're wearing makeup. So you can imagine these young women that went to watch the silent movie stars and they just thought, well, you know, they embraced this kind of new vision of womanhood being whatever you wanted to be and not necessarily listening to anyone else. Yeah. And makeup suddenly being available in Woolworths of womanhood being whatever you wanted to be and not necessarily listening to anyone else. Yeah.

And makeup suddenly being available in Woolworths or whatever for the equivalent of 10 pence. So it was actually achievable. Yeah. I suppose as well, the 30s, I was thinking that would have been sort of black and white movies. That would be the time as well with the contouring, but not just dark lines on your face to really bring out, you know, the dramatic, you know, highs and lows of your face contouring.

But also I heard it was on your hands as well. They do dark lines sort of along your fingers and make everything look really otherworldly. Yeah, that didn't cross over really into mainstream makeup until recently, actually. Contouring as a mainstream thing is very recent. But, yeah, Marllene Dietrich was the queen. She sort of brought contouring to life, if you like, because she came from the theatres in Berlin

and she really noticed that when the lighting changed from one light from basically, you know, went through gaslight, electric light, limelight. So all these changes, obviously, and then the arc lighting, needed something extra you didn't you needed more makeup and um i think through working with the director that particularly the director that she worked with von sternberg and he was the one that kind of put the silver stripe down her nose and you know that was kind of you know became a real um thing for movies but it

didn't cross over into, for regular women. It was a little bit too technical for real life. And if you imagine the textures back then, I mean, now that I've made them as well with my documentary, I'm like, wow,

just getting this mascara on, you know, the kind of soap pigment or the, some of the lipsticks, you know, pretty, you know, the drag,

they drag on. Yeah. I mean, we've spoken about the relationship that the women would have with the makeup you collected, some of the lipsticks you know they're pretty you know the drag they drag on yeah well I guess I mean we've spoken about the relationship that the women would have with the makeup you collected but there's obviously also the makeup artists that were doing those things as well and how that you still have so the technical skill that you'd need to do that and actually you mentioned Marlene Dietrich and when I was at V&A she had a suit in the exhibition I went to and I thought she was really quite an extraordinary woman these were incredibly masculine tailored suit which must have been a real wow at that time actually

so well I love all those women because they really you know someone like say Greta Garbo arrived in Hollywood where it's obviously all run by men men are in charge and um there was a particular makeup look that they thought was the right look for women which was you know the pink cheeks and the you know the sort of dark around the eyes and and she had a very what they considered european look which was the sort of white eyelid with the black line and then the black line in here and she just refused to change that makeup look but then it inspired everyone you know from Marilyn Monroe to 1960s makeup to so I love it when you see these strong women that just refuse to conform yeah and there's

so many of those in the history of makeup that have just been um they've just been mavericks really yeah and I love that so exciting yeah yeah um so listening to you talk about this you know it's clearly a massive passion to know the history of it and where it sits in the cultural landscape so I suppose you know you could have probably ended up working in a museum or something and this just being your absolute speciality and knowing all this stuff and curating a lovely collection but where did the ambition to actually... I mean, well, I suppose with your makeup, being a makeup artist,

you could have gone into theatre or something that just stays kind of a little bit more niche. So what led you to fashion? I think just magazines, you know. Growing up with my mum buying magazines, fashion magazines, you know, I loved Vogue. I'd spend my pocket money on Vogue and I would just I did love theatre and I definitely love like old movies like I used to watch them and try and

recreate the looks on myself usually when my mum was out because I'd use all her really expensive makeup and do like a full Thea de Barra look and then it would all be washed off before she got home doing my homework um but yeah I used to I used to love all that but I did love fashion so and I just didn't know how to get into it I used to say I want to do that but like you know nobody people would be like oh okay seemed like another another country yeah so how did you get into it then um slowly really I came to London and I just um yeah decided that was what I wanted to do and slowly chipped away and find out how I was going to do it and started testing and did a course in the evening and met some people. You know, it's like you met someone who met someone who knew someone.

I say to people, I used to see it like a brick wall, but not a high brick wall, a really deep brick wall. So I had to get through this great big deep wall and every time I met someone who maybe knew someone some of them oh my auntie sister's cousin knows somebody at you know a magazine I'd be like okay that's like one brick or if somebody's like oh I know a stylist here's the number that's like 10 bricks it was like just having to kind of get into this world, which was so alien to me, or not alien to me, but alien. No one I knew was in fashion or knew anything about it. So it was a bit of a challenge. And there's no internet, so it wasn't like, you couldn't just Google and go on someone and find out. You had to literally ask people.

You had to knock on doors. I literally knocked on a door. I worked in an architect's office on reception. I used to do all kinds of jobs while I was testing because obviously you don't make any money doing that. And I used to see this building opposite, and I'd be like, oh, there's people going in and out there that look like they could be in fashion or or something so I just literally knocked on the

door one day and I went what is this and this guy said oh it's Terrence Donovan's studio so I was like oh I said well I'm a makeup artist and he's like oh I'm Terrence's assistant so I said well I work over there on reception but I'm actually a makeup artist so if you're ever testing here like let me know and you know I did quite a bit of stuff with them so it was it was like old-fashioned knock on doors that's so brilliant yeah and and you know I'm not I'm kind of an introvert so I had to force myself to do that it wasn't like it was easy for me yeah like I built that up over like a few weeks and then went and kind of you know ready for rejection that horrible feeling but um the confidence luckily once every now and again it works out doesn't it yes every once in a

while I totally relate to that though I think I'm a bit of an introvert too so that thing of being able to put yourself out there as you say except expecting a no is kind of something you learn to just state no I'm just going to challenge myself to do this to go over and speak to that person I'll put yourself out there and and as you say every once in a while it's like actually yeah that works for us can you come back next week we're going to do a test shoot so if I was forward a little bit what was happening in your life when you had your baby so I'd got to the point where I was really successful and everything was going so well um everything I dreamt of I actually visualized I'd live in Portobello Road and I did get'd live in Portobello Road and I

did get a flat in Portobello Road you know the agent that I wanted I got um I don't know how I managed it but I kind of convinced myself that that was all going to happen um and yeah I was going I was traveling all the time but it was so exciting you know I had every month I'd have like oh the cover of British Vogue or the you, a fashion story in French Vogue and something else. So I had all these tear sheets coming out and it was what I'd always dreamt about. Anyway, anyway, I'd met this guy and then I was I was living in Paris, actually. I went from Portobello Road to Paris and I was living there and I met someone. And then I was about to move to New

York so I was sort of doing so well everyone was like oh you should go to New York and um anyway I kind of was with this person and then and I got pregnant quite quickly kind of suit quite soonish into the relationship and then I was like oh this is great you know lovely I'm really happy um and then I was kind of like okay I can't really move to New York so that's fine I'll go back to London and and then it was really about almost like imagining what it was going to be like afterwards like because you can't imagine how you're going to do that job I kind of knew I couldn't do that job because I couldn't be getting on planes all the time you don't imagine how you're going to do that job I kind of knew I couldn't do that job because I couldn't be getting on planes all the time you don't know how you're going to feel so you can't be like well I know I'm going to feel like this so I want to do that so I just went with

the flow and I worked throughout my pregnancy I remember um Lucinda Chambers at Vogue saying to me make sure you stop about six weeks before you have the baby because you've got to get into a different headspace so I I was like, okay. And I remember being at, it was Milan Fashion Week, six weeks before my baby was due. And I was there. I was heading up the Moschino show. I did Alberta Ferretti show.

I did like loads of shows. And I remember at the end of it, I shut the door on the taxi cab to go to the airport. And I thought, well, I think I have had enough now. I think think that's it so I went home and I did like maybe the odd job but I kind of started going to mother care on a daily basis you know walking to mother care and looking at push chairs and getting really into that headspace and I think it was quite good advice that she'd given me in some ways because it was a different headspace and it was good that I got into that headspace um sometimes it gives you permission as well if someone yeah who has your ear says that you kind of go okay well if that's what she thinks is an okay thing to do

because it's quite hard to know which way is up sometimes if and you haven't got anyone to give you that advice you don't know what everybody else is doing do you you don't know you don't know you're it's it's new to you and um it is a kind of yeah you don't really know what what what's what so so I did that and um once I'd obviously had George I was like oh my god this is amazing um the first three months obviously it was a blur I don't remember any of it but it was incredible and I was really really happy and I remember thinking oh I'll just I'll do things differently now I still didn't know how I was going to do it but I knew I didn't want to do what I was doing before I remember I used to think before I had him how am I going to feel when I wake up and I've got no no covers anywhere in the

world what will that feel like will it feel like I've kind of thrown it all away and I did all that work and it's all gone now but of course once you get to that position I didn't really think like that you know I didn't care quite frankly um it's funny isn't it that because the idea of that before the idea of not caring is quite scary as well I kind of want to keep caring yeah because it's driven me so far yeah exactly and I was enjoying it as well it wasn't like I wasn't enjoying it I loved it when I had magazine covers out walking into news agents and going oh god there's my new cover you know it was a lovely feeling and um not just the status of it but the actual jobs you know they're doing the makeup

they're meeting the people they're getting on a plane exactly oh it's lovely um but I felt totally different and I'd go out with my push and I'd be like oh my god this is like the best thing I've ever done I love it um I took I did take to it like a duck to water thankfully because you know you never know um and I was really really happy so I just had to then rethink everything and I can remember like my agent having this conversation luckily she was a mom and I said I can remember this thing really clearly where I think Matt and Marcus were kind of starting out or were beginning to be do really well uh they're like these big fashion photographers my first album cover they did okay so and I remember they were looking for a makeup artist and they'd asked to see my book and set my book and they said I like your book

and I'd heard that they started shooting at midnight some days like me so I said to my agent you know what I can't get into this now and she said I totally understand I said I just there's you know it would have been a moment but it's not now and deep down I felt like I could get back into it later I mean that was kind of a bit cocky really because fashion once you're out of fashion you're out of fashion but I felt deep down that I can pick this up later I felt like it and if I can't well I'll find other things to. So I literally changed my brief to my agent and I said, I want to do more celebrities because you do a red carpet,

you're finished at six o'clock on the dot because they've gone on the red carpet, there's nothing more to do. I want to do more celebrity covers where there's a publicist there that says the talent's got to leave at 5pm. I want to make up campaigns where we're just here and that's what we do. And then really weirdly, from nowhere, I got a call from Shiseido

when George was really young saying, we're looking for a new creative director. And I said, OK, maybe this is a solution. And I went to see them and it was so mad because I kind of walked I was breastfeeding and I had all I thought god how long is this meeting gonna be and I had all the you know the pads on and and I walked in and it was like seven guys in suits and they wanted I had to talk about my inspirations and I'd just been on holiday in Cornwall and I talked to them for about, it feels like five hours, but I don't know how my boobs didn't explode at that point,

about Barbara Hepworth and sculpture and I had my photography and photos that I'd done. Anyway, I found out later they wanted me to have the job and then I was just worried. And they said, look, you'll only have to come to Japan like twice twice a year and I looked at it and I weighed it up and I thought for the money they're paying me I can give up everything else and just do this and be at home okay I'm gonna have to go on two trips a year which is going to be horrific I'm sure I'm not going to enjoy that but they're short trips and my mum used to really help me out and come and stay and

so I did that actually and that was crazy because it was a super exciting project I had my lovely baby that was super exciting and the first time creating a makeup range and learning about cosmetic science so two babies kind of came at once it was a bit like that was quite overwhelming and in retrospect it was kind of a lot yeah but it meant that I didn't have to do any of the other work it was a lot but it's also there's serendipity and as you say you could it's quite a pragmatic approach that you took even when you were just giving your brief to your agent about finishing times and sort of work that you could do to sort of make it all function well with having this new person in your life and I love that when you say it sounds

cocky to say I'm just going to wait and you know whatever comes back will come back but actually if you know if you've pictured yourself chipping away brick by brick through this really deep wall you've done so much work already at that point in terms of what you can realize when you just keep going I think the scariest bit when you're in a creative industry is more the well for me anyway is the fact that so much of the momentum is reliant on your own ambition because you know no one's forcing you to keep keep turning you know keep pushing on and keep raising the bar and keep turning you know at any point you could say i'm actually you know i'm not going to do this and then they go okay and maybe people be a bit

disappointed for a little minute. And then they find someone else they keep booking. And that's the bit, isn't it? It's so integral to have that fizz of, yeah. Yeah. And your agents don't get you jobs. People think, I'll get an agent to get me the jobs. They don't.

I mean, they help you, obviously, to do the billing and arrange everything. But really, you get your own work and you create your own creativity. You write your own songs. You go out there and you choose to perform them you know um be your own cheerleader basically your own cheerleader exactly and I guess when you when you're a parent I don't know if you would agree with this but I I would really love to instill that feeling in my kids as well of like that momentum that you feel and the desire to keep putting something on the horizon even if it's not much just to kind of keep you focused on where you want to go oh absolutely I think it is about that and um I think it's nice

that um you know when I guess George was growing up um I was really fussy about which jobs I did. So I had this idea that, okay, when I'm like much, much older, what's going to be more important, that body of work or the fact that, you know, I was at every school play. I did the makeup for all the summer fairs. I was on the parents' committee always. I was always class rep. All these things I really enjoyed. I was class rep, yeah, loads loads of times and I loved all that and I thought well that's what's gonna that matters to

me now and um I think you know I consider myself a feminist but I don't think you can have it all at once and I I sometimes think that is quite anti-feminist and people say oh you know you can have it all I think well you can but you're going to be really upset a lot of the time because you know unfortunately I can't I couldn't have had it all I couldn't have gone and flown around the world and kept doing the vogues and been happy with myself and been I wanted to be at home that's what I wanted to do so I it was better for me to one day or two days a week go and do a different type of work than to try and do that and I do feel that that is how I kind of managed to a keep my career going

and look back and feel very happy now that I was very present and I was I for myself as well not that I've got some big manifesto that you know you've got to do this sort of the other this is just me personally speaking that for me it was really important that I was doing all those things that I really enjoyed and wanted to be doing because I found it really fun as well you know I was as I was you know obviously passionate about being a mum and I love it so I wanted to do that and I didn't want to deny myself that either. Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely brilliant. And I totally agree with you about the having it all thing

is such an unhelpful phrase anyway. I don't know that that's really helped anybody. I can't think of anyone who's gone, actually, that really inspired me. I think it just puts this extra pressure and you're like, have I got that? What is having it all anyway? I don't really know what that means it's um it gives me palpitations and with your because you've mentioned your mum a few times did she give you a bit of a map with with motherhood do you think are you quite a similar mum to your mum no completely different

completely different absolutely different yeah I think my mum when I came to England my granny was more like a sort of mother figure to both of us so um yeah I love my mum she's a bit like an older sister um so yeah and my mum was an amazing grandmother is an amazing grandmother uh and to be honest the reason I was able to keep my career going even at this much reduced level was because my mum would literally get on a train if I said I've got a job tomorrow she would just come she'd be amazing with George and look after him and it was just yeah I owe a lot to her because she really was so helpful yeah she really supported she really supported me so much and um that is just yeah that's the reason another reason I mean that I've been I mean she was in

Liverpool I was in London so it was like a you know big kind of a distance but she would just come down and um help me out and I'd be like I've got a job tomorrow and it's a really good job and it's going to finish at five but she'd be like okay I'll get the train in the morning oh wow no that is well you need that I guess and I suppose you know I mean I was raised my mum was a single mother for me for a long time single mum you actually got the practicality of it like you were doing it on your own and actually for me I don't know if you'd agree with this it really became the kind of bedrock of how my dynamic and my relationship with my mum was formed really it's that time when it really became the kind of bedrock of how my dynamic and my relationship with my mum was formed really it's that time when it's just the two of us yeah I think so as well

I agree with you um it's really special actually and um I was gonna ask you so with oh actually I did wonder when your little boy was small did you ever get access to all your amazing makeups because like my my little one is always opening the cupboard and trying to put things on. He's good at, like, keeping his little fingers out. I kept it away. It's vintage Bieber. Yeah.

That's not how you use that. Oh, my God. The Mayweather slip colour. Oh, no, it was all in a cupboard, locked away. Yeah, that's fun. So, yeah. And he's never been interested in makeup. So shame, really. Shame I haven't got anyone to pass it on to.

But you never know. Might be a daughter-in-law or something at some point. Yeah. He's into makeup. Oh, definitely. There'll be loads of people that'll be interested in that. And so if you've got this time where you've kind of consciously kind of changed the shape of what you're up to, how did it all start to come back into where you're at now?

Yeah, it's a good question well um so I became a single mum uh when George was really young so I had sort of four or five years of just him and I and you know my mum helping out and I was doing you know a mixture between um well I did the Shiseido thing and I did that I only did that for two years. And then Boots asked me, are they looking for a new creative director? And actually that was an amazing thing because it happened just at the right time. I thought, I can't do this going to, even twice a year, I can't be going to Tokyo. So I started working as the Boots creative director. So that was all my bills paid.

And then I was able to kind of just start doing jobs which I was really into and again I was only like I used to say to myself I don't want to work a lot because I've got my money taken care of and I'm lucky that I'm not driven by money I really know that about myself that you know right from the beginning of my career if someone said here's a domestic campaign you're going to be paid ten thousand for it, or you can go and do a cover of ID for no money, it's in Canberra Sands at 6am next Sunday, I'll be like, I'll be in Canberra Sands at 6am. I'll manage to survive on something else.

I'll go and get a job in a pub or something. I wouldn't do the money job. So, yeah, so when... I think that's quite a key thing, actually, that being driven by the things that actually make you feel full of joy like that. I think that's quite a key thing, actually, that being driven by the things that actually make you feel full of joy like that. I think that's quite a strong character trait if that's how your mind is set. Yeah, very much so.

It defines everything else, doesn't it? Yeah, so I used to think when George was young, my boots money kind of pays all my bills and I don't need to do any jobs. So I'm only going to do jobs if it's a good day for me to do it. Maybe George is on a sleepover or something, you know, which is a good day to work. And then I would start to do celebrity covers, all the things I asked my agent to get me that I knew would fit in with being a mum as well. So I started doing all of those. And then I got asked to do this TV show.

So I started doing all of those. And then I got asked to do this TV show. And at that time, doing a TV show for a fashion person was like, no one would do it because it was considered so naff. But I didn't have any fear about that. Things have changed a lot. And I just thought, well, I think that sounds fun. It's going to fit in with what I'm doing.

It's interesting. It's different. And I like a challenge so I remember like calling a couple of editors and I said if I do this tv show on channel four you're never going to book me again and they were all like no so I said well I'm just checking because I think I might do it so I did it and um it was 10 years younger the challenge so it was me versus this plastic surgeon and I really enjoyed it and I was terrified like scared like as scared as I was when I knocked on that office door because I'd never done anything like that before.

So I kind of walked in and did it and, you know, I really enjoyed it and it was great. And then the next thing I did was I launched my YouTube channel and I thought, this is great. I'm going to do this YouTube channel at home. And everyone was like, oh my God, you can't do a YouTube channel. It's so naff. Only people like amateurs do it. You're a youtube channel it's so naff only people like amateurs do it you're a vogue makeup artist you're a top top makeup artist you can't if you do that

it's going to be kill your career um and i thought yeah it might do but i'm really into it so i'm going to do it i used to do the editing of the videos when george went to bed so i put him to bed and then i'd be editing the videos and put them up. And I didn't tell anyone in the fashion business about them. I just let them kind of start to gain momentum. And then interestingly enough, that's what kind of got me back into work. But George was 11 then, so when I started my YouTube channel. This is right, it was like pretty near the beginning. It was right at the beginning, right at the beginning.

I think that's only about 13 years old now yeah total isn't it and that's including like it really it's infancy of you know hardly anyone on there exactly so 11 years ago I started doing that from home downstairs bedroom George in bed doing a video editing it putting it up um and then as George got to sort of 12 13 I just thought well I could start doing a bit of fashion again. I mean, pretty arrogant, but I managed to somehow get back in, started working with Matt and Marcus, the ones that I couldn't work with, and I'd chosen not, you know, to say that the hours were wrong

and started working with people like Solver again and Nick Knight and all the people that I guess felt like it wasn't a good move while I had a baby and really just kind of built up my career again. I almost picked up where I'd left off and started doing bow covers again and fashion again and all of that stuff. So it was, yeah, kind of a mixture of, of I guess luck and um I don't know uh you have to be willing as well don't you to kind of just say I'm here when you need me I suppose yeah exactly and you know getting a first job that kind of a job again and then going to do it and um

and just really uh keeping on with the YouTube thing. And then I was working with Chanel. Now I'm Global Crazy Director of Longcom. And those things, I think I just always stay interested. Yes. Curious. Yeah. So I'm always, you know, even when George was in bed, when he was like a baby, I'd be looking on YouTube,

looking at people doing makeup tutorials, getting interested in it. I'm always interested in what's happening and what's new and what's you know and I'm always thinking of ideas probably like you it's just that creative mindset where um you never kind of yeah you're always curious about things yeah there's so much out there as well yeah ongoing it's like never ending and you know I think now as well we've got the point through things like Instagram and YouTube where you know we really are good at seeing all these new people come through and with their skills you know I follow loads of makeup artists I don't you know always know their names in off top of my head but I'll I love what they do with the colour and palette and it's it's really exciting and it's like I think you're gonna for me if I see really

amazing makeup it kind of gives me like endorphins you know I feel I feel good I like seeing it I enjoy the change I love the drama I love it when it's otherworldly and out there and I just think it's really fun I agree with you that's the beauty of makeup. And I felt like that for my kid. It is. It is so transformative and exciting. It's playful, that's the thing, isn't it? Yeah, that's a good word. It's playful and it is creative and I think that there's something so joyful about doing makeup.

I know a lot of people who watch my YouTube videos will say, I don't really wear makeup, but I like watching them because they're relaxing. I like to see the colour go on, the way you talk about it. So there's something just so, yeah, it's like painting, isn't it? They love it. Yeah, it's incredible. And I do think it's interesting as well in your field

because actually maybe a little bit in mine too, but I think I know a lot of um you get a lot of career women where they've spent so long feeling like you did with the wall and then actually the idea of having a baby is not something that they have necessarily put much um focus on because too busy with the career I've noticed that quite a lot so yeah obviously sometimes through choice and sometimes just through circumstance that's not been what's happened for them so I do think it's it's quite a special thing that you were able to actually just completely kind of step back and have this other whatever it was another five six years where it was that different landscape before

you started getting more into you know building all up back up again yeah I always think is it that Orlando you know the Virginia Woolf book and in that it's someone gets to be a you know the character Orlando gets to live these different lives and I feel like I've sort of done that I've done this sort of really high fashion flying around being a mum and a class rep and the face painter all of summer fairs and you know taking the kids at all of that stuff like I kind of really embraced that and then moving into that sort of slightly tv thing world and then back into fashion and yeah I can feel like um sort of I feel like you can you can do all of this for, I couldn't have done it all at the same time, but I've managed to sort of lay it out and go into different lanes, like driving on a motorway.

I've been in that fast lane. I've been on the slow lane for a while, back in the middle. You know what I mean? I've kind of changed lanes quite a lot. And that's how I've, you know, kept the career going. That's all you're doing as well, I suppose. I'm in love with it, yeah, the passion for it. I think the changing up a lot works for me as well.

Had I just been still doing the fashion stuff and still flying around the world and still just going to the studio, I probably would have been bored of that by now. But the fact is I've done so many things within the world of fashion, from creating makeup to doing the documentary to do my own makeup to working for big brands so all of those are different elements of something that I really like I guess it's like for you like song songwriting producing performing you know or there's so many different elements and if you try

do a bit of all of them it keeps it all so fresh and exciting and fun definitely it's good for your brain 100 and i was thinking so you're your boy's now 22 yeah different that next chapter of things but you also have a stepson yeah he's 26 yes he's 26 and how have you found that role because that's i'm always quite interested i have step parents well i've got a stepmother and my stepdad I was very close to and um yeah it's a different thing it's like it's I feel raised by four people but it's a it's definitely like a different thing than just you know and you've got mum dad and then extra parents yeah I think when we met it was so nice because um I think Jordan must have been about six uh They were about six and nine, I think. Yeah, six and nine.

And that was just so natural. Wow, that's great. It felt straight away. They weirdly sort of looked alike. They've always got on really well. Oh, nice. So that was, it kind of worked really nicely, actually, from the beginning.

And I feel like they'll be, what's nice is I feel like they'll be what's nice is I feel like they'll be brothers forever you know they've kind of I feel like once we're gone they'll always have each other which is so nice yeah and how did you find this parent role something you had to think about much or is it quite an instinctive thing to yeah I think it's not instinctive I think it's I've just always been led by um my husband his dad because he's you know I feel like it's not really my place to kind of start laying the law down and stuff like that so he's been more he's definitely been more the the you know the disciplinary or the whatever the the I've taken it more from him my lead from him yeah yeah I think it is

a slightly different thing you don't if you're a step parent you have to kind of as you said the dad can be doing that thing but yeah you can't go in heavy I remember going into a after we got married and we went into a Starbucks I remember saying to my stepson we were queuing up and I said well I'm not really sure how to do this step mom thing but you know hopefully I'll be all right and you know if you need to you know if you can help me then great I was like I was like you know I remember having that and he was like oh no whatever um because I feel like it's you just turned up so you don't want to go in like a bull in a china shop yeah but also at that age as well he's old enough to understand if you're saying you know you can help me with this well I think that's nice I think that's actually quite a modern way

of parenting as well I think we're better now at saying this is something I haven't done before so can you please help me that I do that with my kids actually also I'm still still learning about all this you know yeah no exactly I think that's really nice to own up that I'm not really sure like what do you think I should do about that because um yeah sometimes you're not really sure yeah you can obviously go from the gut and that's the best way to parent if it feels right and it's you're feeling like it's intrinsically something that's that's good um a combination of that and a bit of research then I think you most people can figure it out yes and how I haven't got any kids in the 20s bracket yet, but how does it shift when you're parenting someone

who's an adult, proper adult? I think now it's great. I mean, my only scary moment, I think, was when George was... It was the summer after the GCSEs. Well, you've been through this, actually. I don't know if you had a bad one. I did, because they all went out and we just couldn't find them most of the time they

were in parks they weren't and I got George maybe he was 16 I put him on my Uber account and I've only just recouped my rating so it's taken me five years to go from I think it was like 1.7 I couldn't get an uber yeah because they used to because I thought well if he's on my uber account I can see whose house they're at yeah because they're at friends houses and I was always doing detective work to see were they there had they gone to so-and-so's house were they still there or had they gone out were they walking around a park you You know, was there any drink involved? What was going on? You know, I was...

You're unaccounted for for these hours. Yeah, so I thought the Uber account was good. But yeah, in fact, a lot of his friends came around the other night and we were joking about that and they were laughing so much. I was like, guys, I've only just got my Uber rating back over four. It's taken me all these years. You must have had to be so nice i've had to be so nice i've had to tip tip tip tip yeah so super nice if you liked me would you please give

me five stars um actually i did have one thing i wanted to ask you because i think it's really significant that you grew up in new zealand and then moved when you were six how do you think it what does it give you when you've had that really big shift as a child to go from one place to somewhere completely new yeah I mean it's a massive upheaval um plus like my parents split up in New Zealand so my mum brought me to England so that obviously is something that you know is such a big thing um and we spent a lot of time coming back we came back on a slow boat from New Zealand to England. How long did that take?

Months and months and months. I went to school on the boat. It was a long journey. Wow. You were on a boat for months coming back from New Zealand. That's incredible. I went to a lot of places. And then landed in New Zealand.

Sorry, in Liverpool, which is very different to New Zealand. I lived in Beach beach road in outside auckland so you can imagine what it was like um but luckily um i was credit my granny with this that we lived in my granny she was amazing she was an amazing musician she played piano she was very creative um she was i guess just you know just a great person to be around yeah and I think that a lot of my creativity was encouraged by her and recognized by her and she used to write me funny little poems in the morning and I think that that was you know but it was yeah it was a big big change yeah it was a strange um thing I guess, it makes you very resilient.

And it made me very, someone that can always fend for myself. You know, I rocked up in London without any money at quite a young age and decided I was going to be a makeup artist. How old were you then? When did you leave home? I was like 19, 20. But to just suddenly turn up, actually not far from here, just rocked up in a friend's flat, living in a spare room while I kind of figured out I was going to be a make-up artist.

So I think there is a certain resilience there that probably came from quite a strange childhood or that part anyway. Yeah, but your granny sounds amazing. Yeah, she was. she was she was amazing allowed you as well to get lost in a kind of you can be feel safe about having all this creative play because actually where you found yourself also made you feel safe so you can kind of really lose yourself in you know exploring makeup and other worlds and where that takes you um I think that's amazing well before I let you go I do want to hear a

little bit about your cat because we were talking a little bit about animals before and you were telling me about your cat who's a fashion stylist um so what accessories did Ted your cat choose for you today um he chose for me a um a scrunchie which was um black with sort of gold flecks in it and does he have a tendency to go for sparkly things? Yeah, he does actually, and had a bow. And he chose a 1990s, a vintage Jessica Ogden belt, very nicely sort of handmade. I did actually even put it around my waist

because I thought once he'd given it to me, should I wear it today? But then I didn't think it went with this, but obviously Ted would beg to differ. So he puts things down and then has a little chat about what he's put down. Yeah, no, he goes into the wardrobe. Well, it's sort of, you know, the area where like all the shoes are laid out because he likes accessories.

That's his main thing. So he goes in there and he's just so funny, his process. Actually, my assistant was at the house this morning. She's never seen because she's quite new. She's seen a talk. She's had a talk, but she's never seen because she's quite new she's seen a talk she's had a talk but she's never seen the process and we were actually in that area today and i could tell by the look in his eye he was working because he walked in and he was like checking it all out he walked around three times he was looking at some coats that were hanging up so i thought oh god you know he's not going to try and grab a coat, is he?

Checked out shoes, jumped up onto the accessories table, and then he just is looking for ages. I mean, it's quite a slow thing. Sometimes he talks a little bit to himself while he's looking, so it can be a bit of a... And then the next thing, you just hear this great big thud. So if you're downstairs, you know he's done a talk because you hear him jump down from the cupboard. And then this talk starts, you just hear this great big thud. So if you're downstairs, you know he's done a talk because you hear him jump down from the cupboard.

And then this talk starts. And it's like, when we have strangers, people we don't know very well at the house, they're like, is there a baby crying upstairs? I'm like, no, it's just my cat. He's about to show up with a piece of fashion. And everyone's like, yeah, okay, crazy lady. And then Ted comes down the stairs, still talking.

He drops the fashion item at the bottom of the stairs and then just does this crazy talk i don't know what he's saying i think he's saying this is a fantastic piece of 90s vintage it is showing how handcrafted it he had this talk then he waits for you you go up up. You pick up the item. He looks so proud. I can't even tell you. The ears go back. He's beaming with pride. And you say, thank you so much.

It's really good. Like, if it's a hat, I'll put it on. And it just started during the lockdown. And if I say it to people, they don't believe me. So I show them a video and then they go, okay, this is insane. That is insane, and I completely love it. I think also a key point of this as well is that he's obviously got access to amazing accessories,

because if my cat did this, he'd be like, this is something you bought on your look on tour. It was reduced from £4 to two. It's fraying at the edges. I got paid in really good clothes for a lot of fashion shows over the years I mean back then used to get paid in clothes so yeah I've got some really nice pieces from exactly way back when um there might be a lot of fashion stylist cats out there if they just had access to the right accessories I know but I think he's bored with my accessories now because

sometimes he doesn't do a talk for like a week and I almost feel under pressure to like get some good accessories because I feel like I'm starving him of you know of his outlet um but I haven't even said to like fashion editors at magazines if you want to bring like the new season of accessories around he will choose all the key pieces and then you'll know what to what to shoot because I would do that chosen stylered by Ted. Chosen by Ted. I think you're onto something with that. Oh, no. Everyone keeps saying to me, start an Instagram account.

I'm like, honestly, I've got enough to do. I can't be doing that. Come on. People love cats on Instagram. I know. And they love fashion. So, you know. Set up a camera.

Just have him choosing pieces all day long. Oh, God. I would definitely be a follower. I'm there. Yeah, I like the face and things. And finally, I hope you're going to, did you say you're going to a gig tonight that your son's doing?

No, he's doing a gig. Yes, he's doing a gig tonight. I'm not going because I feel like it's uncool. So have you been to many of his gigs? Yeah, I have actually. I've been to, not many, I've been to a couple. Yeah. They did a couple at Soho House. I have actually. I've been to, not many, I've been to a couple. Yeah. They did a couple at Soho House.

I went to them and it was sort of okay for, I've been to two. But yeah, the one tonight, yeah, I'm not really sure if I can turn up. Just send Ted. And my son's so lovely with me, he's always has been. He's like just so warm and he's so laid back and so sweet and nice with me and he always has been. And sometimes I'll say, oh, you know, can I, like I wrote when they first started, I wrote on the account and he said, do you mind deleting that, mum? It just looks a bit uncool to have like you commenting on there. And I was like, oh, God, sorry, you know, I'll delete it now.

And he's like, yeah, if you don't mind, it's really nice of you to do it you know I'm really it's great and everything but uh do you mind just not um having it on there so I was like okay that's how the wheel turns in the third I know next you'll set up Ted's Instagram account he'll be like do you mind not commenting on something else I'm just trying to I don't know I think Ted should style them come on yeah there you go that's perfect yeah i just i just want ted to talk to my cats that my cat's a bit more exciting that's what i want to happen next time we go on tour we'll get ted around he can do a whole look for you i'd love head to toe it'll be quite eclectic i'm i'll bring it on yeah because he loves he doesn't mind a bit

of sparkle and he likes a bit of diamante and he does like a bit of leopard print and he will mix that with something quite random. But if you're into it. I can bring forth all these things. And I also think Ted would be partial to some mouse eyebrows if I had them. I'd probably be wearing them every day, Ted, on his way. Thanks so much, Lisa. Oh, thanks so much.

Very nice to talk to you. Thank you. So as that finishes, I'm sat here on my mouse eyebrows, raising them up and down a lot. Wiggle, wiggle, mouse eyebrows. Trying to entice my cat, Tit I mean Titus my cat not a stylist not a fashion advisor by any stretch he's just a cat but he would definitely pick out my

mouse eyebrows for me anyway so you know there that. And how lovely was Lisa? I mean, her voice is just so calming. As I said before, I feel like I need a bit of that at the moment. I feel like I'm going between being pretty chill and then very tense. I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's because I was away a bit last week. So when I got back, it kind of, there's always like little family tensions that come either side of me being away I don't know if that's normal just our house but yeah I'm going to put on some mouse eyebrows and style it out and I'm around all week this week so that's nice

and I'm actually recording so many podcasts because while I was in the studio last week I went absolutely bonkers emailing loads of people asking them to do the podcast so i've now got lots and lots of lovely amazing guests um to add into the pile of already amazing guests i had already so all good good good i'm excited about it all and that's lovely but as ever thank you this week to lisa for being. Thank you to Claire Jones, my lovely producer and friend who came around and recorded us and made us sound good and did her beautiful notes. Honestly, you should see Claire's notes when we do podcasts.

They are a work of art. And thank you to Richard for editing this. Thank you to Ella May for the gorgeous artwork. Thank you to my kids for leaving me alone while I do this. They're all in other rooms i've got one who's editing a video i've got a couple in the garden and i've got one in his bedroom and i think that's all of them yeah and i even managed to clean up the hamster cage today so you know today's a good day oh yeah because you remember last time i was telling you about

the hamster so yeah we've got a hamster deku his name is he's very sweet he's part of the family now and so far the main person who holds him is me which actually is a bit of a confidence trick because i sort of forgot it's quite unnerving to hold a very small rodent but he's sweet and i'm doing a big thing of just going this is great let's hold deku so that ray does too and it's starting to rub off i think um yeah so have a good week you i'll see you same time same place and thank you very much for lending me your ears as ever i hope the sun shines on you wherever you are all week long because spring is here Thank you. you