Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 64: Lorraine Kelly

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Lorraine Kelly is a hugely-loved TV presenter and phenomenal communicator, and known by everyone in the land simply as ‘Lorraine’.  Well, nearly everybody 😉 We sat down with a cup of tea to talk about what it’s like having a grown up child (Rosie, now in her 20s) and how their relationship has changed and become richer as she’s become an adult. We talked about Lorraine’s modest start in life in the Gorbals in Glasgow and she shared her recipe for staying young: to always be curious and open to new ideas. I am nodding in total agreement! Spinning Plates is produced by Claire JonesPost-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates Good day to you Ollie, I don't know what's happening where you are, but I'm walking back through the park after dropping the kids at school and it's beautiful it's a proper happy sunny spring day absolutely loving it and I've been having a really nice week actually pretty easy going I've been doing loads of

podcasts because last week in the studio I was firing off emails asking people like a woman possessed. And now I've been slotting them on my diary and it's been really nice actually. Just lots of really nice chats. Thank you very much. And this week was really special actually because Lorraine Kelly came over to my house. And I have been a fan of Lorraine for so long. I think she's awesome. She's smart. She's an incredible broadcaster.

Watching her when she does the live TV is so impressive. Because she just runs a very tight ship and makes it look really effortless. And she just glides along, even though there's a voice in her ear there's difficult different things to juggle she's just very very good at it and I agree with a lot of what she says and uh yes I've always enjoyed watching her and always been very happy when I've gone in to be interviewed by her and it was nice to turn the tables and invite her over and have a good chat. Just one of those people, as soon as she walked in, she was like, ask me whatever you want. We can talk about whatever you want.

And so we did. Really lovely conversation. I was doing lots of emphatic nodding. She said lots of very sensible, cool things. So yeah, I think you're going to love it. And when Lorraine first came around, we spent a little bit of time, as I was making a cup of tea for us both, talking about Deborah James, aka Bowel Babe. So I wanted to mention it because I don't know if you remember, but I spoke to Deborah, I think it was actually pretty much this time last year. And it was a lovely

conversation. I really, really, really like Deborah. I think she's such a lovely, impressive, warm, motivated woman. And we spoke about how her bowel cancer diagnosis had affected lots and lots of things. And she now, this week, so now I'm talking to you now what day of the week is it by me it's Thursday um so this earlier this week she put up a post about how she was now moving to palliative care now obviously that's very shocking news and upsetting especially for so many people so many hundreds of thousands of people who followed her story and got to know her through things like her podcast with you me in the big c and her involvement with lorraine kelly because she does um a campaign with lorraine called no

butts all about you know how to check yourself for any signs of bowel cancer so basically lots of people know her lots of people are incredibly fond fond of Deborah. And she's now talking very openly about being at the end of the road in terms of her treatment and about the fact that that means she's dying. And obviously, that's not a conversation we're very good at having, but she's just handled it in such an incredible way, not least by setting up the Deborah James Foundation, also known as the Bow Babe Fund which is feeding into three cancer charities and her goal was to raise quarter of a million

and when I checked this morning it was well over three million which has really moved me because obviously it's incredible amount of money what a success to raise so much but obviously also it means it means love it means people are thinking of her and caring about her and wanting to she said basically donate the cost of a drink to see me off so what a massive cheers to deborah that is anyway so lorraine and i were talking about that so i wanted to mention it i'm sure you guys are already aware of all of this stuff, but if you did want to check out the fund, which probably by the time this is published next week

is probably going to be, I don't know, double that. People are being incredibly generous. Anyway, the birds are tweeting, the sky is blue, the sun is shining. I'm going to try and take some philosophy from Deborah's take, you know, live life to the fullest and enjoy the moment. And I'm very happy that the guest chat with Lorraine was so positive and upbeat because it's exactly the tonic that we all could do it with.

So yeah, over to you, Lorraine. See you on the other side. Thank you for coming over. It's really lovely to see you. And I know there's lots of things we're going to talk about. So I might as well start with the here and now. I actually want to start with a practical question. What times do you have to get up for your programme every day?

Do you know, it's not too bad. When I used to do it years ago, when I used to do the six o'clock show, you used to have to get up for your programme every day? Do you know, it's not too bad. When I used to do it years ago when I used to do the six o'clock show, you used to have to get up at three in the morning and the studios then were at TV AM in Camden and there's nothing more soul destroying than coming into your work

and everybody else is going home from a brilliant night out like they've all been clubbing and in the pub and you're just going to your work. So now, it's not too bad but half five,

which is okay. I think half five is still pretty early well let's get towards normality a little bit but a lot of the show now because obviously it's changed over the years since I've been doing it but a lot of it now we do on the day so in the morning we just need a little bit more prep time just to see what's happening we tend to sort of try and be more news reactive and and and talk about things that are happening especially overnight you know things that are happening, especially overnight. You know, things that say

there's been an award ceremony overnight or something's happened in the US or there's been a breaking news story or something like that. We always tend, I don't call them gaps in the show, call them opportunities. Which sounds better. We've got an opportunity

rather than, oh God, we've got eight minutes to fill. You know, so yeah, but we do quite a lot in the day and I like that. I like that. I think it's good. So how's your relationship with journalism? Is it still the same as it has been? It's changed.

I mean, I'm so glad when I started that we didn't have social media. Gosh, we didn't even have mobile phones. That's how old I am, for goodness sakes. I don't think it's like you're so old. It's just a crazy idea. Of not having it in world yes we didn't we didn't have the internet so in the morning when I was a correspondent in the morning I would do my checks which they were called so I would phone up the police fire brigade you know all of the big all my contacts in the morning

to find out what was going on what's happening today or did anything happen overnight what's been happening here? Whereas now you would just go on Twitter or Google or whatever, you know, to find out what was going on on our news site, and we didn't have 24-hour news either. So oftentimes if a story broke overnight or late at night, the first time people would hear about it would be on Breakfast Tele, and I was the correspondent for TVIM covering Scotland.

And if you got called out in the middle of the night, it was usually, you know, it's never going to be somebody winning the lottery it's going to be something horrible but it was I'm glad that I grew up in that time because I didn't have the pressures of social media and I think that would be very difficult I feel you know I've got huge sympathy for anybody it doesn't matter whether they're in the public eye or not or whatever they do but growing up with that pressure must be really hard actually I was able to make my mistakes Sophie I was able to you know nobody was taking pictures of me at a disco when I was 15 you know doing something silly and putting it

on Facebook nobody did that with me and oh my goodness me they could have so I'm just glad I didn't have that yeah me too actually very very very glad and also about the making mistakes I think and you should be allowed to make mistakes it's like nowadays nobody's allowed to make mistakes I know because it's the only way you learn you know of course it is and you should we're all human beings we're all fallible and you know you should be able to make a mistake and then say sorry you know and then get on with the rest of your life instead of it hanging around your neck all the time it's not for you no I know I think um I've got a real um fascination with the sort of cancel culture aspect of things probably because I'm very terrified about the idea of being on the other end of it oh yeah just one slip up

and me too and I do live telly um and I do I'm pretty good and always have had you know because I have been doing it for such a long time it's been over 35 years which is ridiculous um but I have got a good self-edit button but of course sometimes you forget um and you and you might but I'd like to think that I wouldn't say anything that would be necessarily offensive I certainly wouldn't mean to do it um you know I think there's a difference between meaning to be offensive and and just saying something because maybe you're not educated enough or you know you've got a different way of thinking. But I still think that people should be able to express their opinion. You know, I very much do. And I always think that about interviews. It's really interesting because quite recently, Susanna Reid interviewed Boris Johnson and it was brilliant

because she let him speak. It wasn't gladiatorial. She just wanted to get to the facts. She completely skewered him. I mean, it was a brilliant interview. But she just wanted, she treated him like a human being and he didn't know how to respond. Yeah, I saw that. It was really good. And then at the end, it was hilarious because he didn't know who I was,

which was absolutely hilarious. Because why should he know? I mean, who expects him to know? It doesn't matter anyway. But I thought it was very funny. But that's the way to do an interview. Let people speak. But at the same time, you don't let them away with anything,

but it doesn't become a shouting match. It doesn't become a point scoring thing, which so many interviews these days, whether it's politicians or not, tend to be sort of like, almost like, ah, I got you there. Well, so what? Just let politicians speak,

then we can make our minds up. Yeah. We're not daft. It's more comfortable viewing that as well, because as you say, you can make, as a viewer, you're watching. Yeah. We're not daft. It's more comfortable viewing that as well, because as you say, you can make, as a viewer, you're watching. Yeah. That thing when you watch them on something, like I was watching something on Newsnight last night,

and the person being interviewed, there was such a sort of stance to the interview. It was gladiatorial, right? Yeah, it's really horrible. It was gladiatorial, point scoring, you never get anywhere. They end up talking over each other. There's absolutely, you know, more heat than light, and you just end up being frustrated. each other that there's absolutely you know more heat than light and it you just end up being frustrated so I think there's a change I think there's

definitely a change there but I guess with the broadcasting you do you get to have this quite sweet spot because I was thinking you're almost like a sort of all-seeing eye because all the all the stories as you say the the from the from the lightweight to the really heavyweight, all come through you. But when people come to your studio, I feel like they're kind of slightly their guards down a little bit because it's a more... Yeah, I do.

I think that absolutely should be because I want people to be very relaxed. And if somebody is good enough to trust me with their story, let's say it's a member of the public who's been through something awful or who's dealt with something terrible or has overcome something and they have trusted me with that story which is that's amazing then they must be make sure I must make sure that they're comfortable and the whole team's like that and of course we we want to make it as an enjoyable and experience as we possibly can at the same time when it comes to politicians or somebody

that needs to be held to account they underestimate breakfast telly and they underestimate daytime at their peril to be honest and that's you know it's completely different because yeah but you're right they do feel oh quite relaxed and oh we can chat away and then you just go with the killer

question you just go in there and that's good but yeah people should feel comfortable it's almost like I'm inviting them into my home I've invited people into my house I'm not gonna be horrible to them no not deliberately anyway no no and as you say it lets them actually um set up their own stall and it's actually really good to see politicians as human beings now some of them aren't some of them can't some of them can't relate to normal questioning you know just, having a conversation, rather than them just saying what they want to say

and being evasive and all of that. A lot of today's politicians are not, but the ones that are really stand out. Yeah, they do. They really do. I mean, I know Ed Balls isn't in politics anymore, but he's become a really good presenter and he's a human being, you know,

and that makes all the difference in the world. It does. It really really does and that's why it's relevant that Boris Johnson didn't know I guess I guess although it's very funny Sophie it's just daft isn't it it's very silly it did make me giggle um so going back to when you first had your daughter what was going on in your life then well I had just joined that I've been so oh so many regime changes you know it started off with TVAM and then it was GMTV um and I was one of the presenters of the show and when I got pregnant um and went and went off because I'm a freelancer um I got a phone call two weeks before I was due back at work to say, oh, we've got someone else, got someone else to do your job. And thanks. If it doesn't work out, we'll give you a call.

And that was when they hired Anthea, you know, Anthea Turner, who's a lovely, lovely, lovely girl. She's not going to turn that job down. Of course she's not. You know, why would she? So that was a bit of a worry because my husband is a cameraman and he just moved down. We just moved house because I had this job at GMTV. And because I was, you know, we had a baby, we wanted to make a nest. Because up until then, I was going from, I was going home every weekend back up to Dundee where we were living. And that's fine when you don't have kids, but you can't do that when you've got a wee tiny baby. It's impossible. It's impossible.

So we sort of based ourselves quite near the studio and then to lose the job like that overnight and he just he was just establishing himself as a freelance cameraman down in England as opposed to up in Scotland so it's difficult you know so I put baby under one arm a little VHS you know with my highlights Vt you know your showreel under the other and went around just about every tv station and there wasn't much going back then it was we didn't have you know like the the loads and loads of opportunities that we've got now you know there wasn't podcasts there wasn't as much opportunity in tv or radio and so it was really scary and the only reason i got back was because a mum and baby company wanted to do a

mum and baby slot and they had sponsorship money for for GMTV but they only wanted me to do it because I just had Rosie it made sense so I went and did that and thank goodness it was that was in the November I got told not she was born in June I was supposed to go back in September and they told me in August not to come back and that was too soon to be honest and and then yeah that this little mum and baby slot worked really well and I got offered my own show so you just never know how things are gonna work out you know I was very lucky that that happened um and that it was a success and you know the company were very happy and then in the January I got my got my own show and had my own show ever since um which is great so from the June

to the January is when you got your own show so actually looking back is actually not very long but a lot happened in a lot happened then Sophie and it was you know obviously the most important thing was was Rosie but it was such a shame because that that stress that I had when she was so teeny tiny and I felt as if those really special that really special time was kind of taken away that you never get back and I've only had one so I won't ever get that back and that that was a real shame and it's only when I think about it now that I think because I was you know really worried of course you know of course I was because I had this massive responsibility of you know both you know both my husband and I of this tiny little child But we had to make sure it was okay.

So, yeah, I guess that sort of fuels the never take it for granted and that horrible thing that I think a lot of us have got of, oh, well, I'm doing okay, but I might get found out. You know that imposter thing? Yes. I think we've all got that a little bit, but I certainly have, for sure. Really? Oh, yeah. I think it's partly, it's a working class thing you know I'm I was born in the Gorbals in Glasgow and um obviously

from a very working class family and I think sometimes there is that thing of you don't feel kind of good enough which is really silly because your logical rational mind tells you that of course you are don't be silly but there's always that wee niggly voice at the back saying haha you're going to get found out one day you've been very lucky um and but at the same time I suppose it keeps you grounded as long as it doesn't go too far uh but yeah there is that feeling of one day you will actually get found out and and and that's yeah that's definitely with me absolutely well I guess as well that because of how you do your job and, you know, I do feel like there's two styles of, there's presenters and then there's broadcasters.

To me, the broadcaster is someone who does their own research, knows what they're talking about, follows their own stories, has their own take on things. And I love the fact that I think you're whip smart when you're doing, I love watching you do what you do I've been interviewed with you and you've got

voices in your ear telling you things things are happening and I honestly it's a proper masterclass there's a lot going on isn't there so much going on

but I need to do I suppose I am quite sort of like in the sense that I've got to do my homework every night you know like I don't really go to

many functions and things because I know I'm Cinderella I never can go to the party. And the trouble with me is I'm either all in or nothing. So if I do go to the party, I go 100% to the party. And that's probably not a great idea. Absolutely, absolutely. So I really have to be careful with that

because I know myself, I know what I'm like. But I do, and now with the show after COVID, I was so lucky to be on every single day for goodness sake that was amazing but I don't have scripts now I just put everything on my iPad I just write it on my iPad I put down a couple of um little bullet points like if I was talking to you just a few wee things so that I've got a rough idea but of course it's a conversation so it can go in so many different directions and that and I can understand why people do it but I just think I would always say to anybody who's interviewing exactly what you're doing we're

sitting here talking listen is the most important thing just listen because you can go in so many different directions that's what makes it such a joy I know it really does you know it's it's fantastic that's what I love about the job you don't you've got a rough idea what somebody might say but you don't know I totally agree with. And the first ever podcast I did, the first interview, I'd written out just some bullet point questions and I took them with me and I put them under my thigh for the chat. I was talking to Fern Cotton and I thought, well, if I get lost... And I realised there's no opportunity for that.

If I break eye contact, if I start getting some notes out, it just doesn't work. And the chat, it's not a conversation anymore. I've stopped listening. It becomes like an interview, yes, rather than a conversation. And it should be a conversation. That's what I always think, especially with what I do. It has to be.

People have to feel comfortable. Viewers have to feel comfortable as well. And I guess as well, that imposter thing is also that feeling probably of you're only ever as good as the day you've just done absolutely you can do the best show where you think it is um and then the next day oh you know it can all fall apart and of course it does and some shows are are terrific and some are not as good some but you've always the great thing about it is you've always got the opportunity to sort that the next day you know we we absolutely pilot things on air.

You know, we try things. We're probably sometimes a little bit too ambitious, but I'd rather that we tried something that didn't quite work than not try it at all. So, yeah, it's good. And I'm so lucky with my team because they're all obviously far younger than I am. But that combined with my daughter keeps me young.

You know, it keeps me, I'm interested. I think you've got to be interested in the world around you and never get set in your ways and always be open to new ideas and new music and new TV and all of that. Because, you know, sometimes my gang will say, oh, we've got this one on. And I go, oh, yeah, I like them. How do you know that? It's because my daughter plays it, you know, or I've heard it on the radio. Are you you know you've got to make yourself open to new ideas because and have curiosity it's the most important thing it's so vital it really is and no matter what you do it doesn't matter what you do as long as you're curious about the world around you then

that's fantastic yeah it keeps you young and it also you know the generation gaps overall are much smaller now aren't they in terms of so much yes absolutely i mean that that's so interesting because we're there it isn't the same as what it was with me with my mum and dad and although my mum and dad were so young when they had me they were only 17 and they were very very yeah they were very very young wow ridiculously young actually yes oh yes yes no number five no absolutely um and they were whereas um my contemporaries at school their mum and dads were much older but my mum and dad were listening to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and you know they and Bob Dylan and my mum was like really you know she had the miniskirts and all of that and they were so they

I feel that there's not as big a gap with us at all. And that's really good because my grandparents, that was more like what the sort of distance, if you like, between the generations. So that was a good thing. I mean, I remember dancing with my mum to Dusty Springfield and things. It was so cool.

That is cool. It was so good. 17 so little. It's ridiculous when I think, I was like at that age. And they stayed together? Oh, they're still together. Wow.

They've been married, what age am I? I'm 62, so I've been married 62 years. Because funnily enough, I always thought I was six months premature, that I was a miracle child. And I wasn't. Wait a minute, they got married then? And I was born four months later? What's going on?

That's amazing, though. What an incredible thing. And how, what's it like when you have that sort of success story marriage? Because I think sometimes that can be something to live up to a little bit if you've seen a relationship like that. Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, don't get me wrong, they drive each other nuts. Of course they do.

Of course they do. And there's been ups and downs over the years. But yeah, it's unusual for for a couple to have been together for so long and I don't know um well certainly I'd love to be together with my husband as long as that but yeah you're right I mean I think it's about it's about respect isn't it but it's also about like my mum's very much got her own life in a sense you know my dad doesn't go I mean they're older now my dad doesn't go out as much but my mum's out every day you know

she's learning German for goodness sake which I think is brilliant she's got her book club I was trying to think it was in German I was like wunderbar

wunderbar she's got her book club she's got her exercise classes she's got her friends she goes for big long walks you know she's really got and I think that's really important

that's certainly the same with me and my husband we've got our own our own time and I think you know we do give each other a bit of space and I think that's really important. That's certainly the same with me and my husband. We've got our own time. And I think we do give each other a bit of space. And I think that's really important as well. It's so healthy. I think that's something to talk about apart from anything else.

Yeah, and I totally agree with you about that curiosity and keep looking outside yourself and keep learning. I think I'm starting to see, so I'm 43 now. And when I turned 40, I could see that this is like a little bit of a fork in the road for yeah making a decision to stay open and then I could see some people getting a little bit more calcified with some of their thinking yes some of their ideas and they don't they're not receptive and that that goes back to the whole thing of you know things have changed times have changed people's attitudes have changed quite dramatically I mean when I think I remember having this conversation with Rosie actually quite recently and I and I said to her I said you know

when I was a kid when I was you know when I was alive when I was born it was illegal it was actually illegal to be gay you could be put in jail and she was like what because that just sounded so insane and so ridiculous I mean you think when we've come from that you know because I was born 1959 we've come from that in the early 60s to now wow I mean still a long way to go but how things have changed and how things are changing and how young people's attitudes to their sexuality and and just to the world in general are changing you know it's it's quite it's remarkable it really is and and I welcome it I really do I want people to question things I want people to question politicians and attitudes and where we're going and what we're doing because you know they they're

the ones that's going to inherit it and they should have their say and I think it's also important with things that are evolving and changing if you if you don't know how you feel about something it's okay to not know how you feel yet and just keep listening exactly you don't have to have an opinion straight away indeed and if you and because we're all it's all about learning isn't it it's okay to not know how you feel yet and just keep listening exactly you don't have to have an opinion straight away indeed and if you and because we're all it's all about learning isn't it it's all about educating yourself um and and i what i don't want is debate to be shut down for people not to go oh i didn't know that and i don't really understand that or what do you mean by that terminology i'm not sure do i call you they or he or she or what do i call you just ask yeah that's all you have to do just

ask and don't be frightened to make a mistake and also if you do make a mistake people shouldn't come down on you like a ton of bricks they should say you made a mistake there let's just move on let's just move on as long as it's not being a deliberate sort of yeah intention behind it yeah it's all about intention isn't it yeah because a lot of people are just being they're not meaning to say something, and then they go, oh, right, I get it, and then it's fine.

Yeah, and there's like little new synapses and neurons, bridges being built in your brain about changing the way you think about things. I was reading something I really agree with, that you were saying that you, with your daughter, you don't,

like when people say about the best friends, we're not friends. Yeah. That with them. We're not friends. Yeah. That sounds terrible. We're not friends. It doesn't sound terrible. I actually totally know what you mean. I'm not her friend.

I'm her mum. Yeah. And it's a different relationship. And I would love to sit here, Sophie, and say to you that my Rosie tells me everything. Of course she doesn't. Did you tell your mum everything? No, and you probably don't really want it as well.

No, I don't. I really, there are certain areas of her life I would just like to keep off limits. Thank you. Yes. But yeah, she knows knows I'm there it's like you with your boys you are there 100 you've got their back there you are but it is a different relationship and I don't really get the best friends thing with your children did you have your what's your mum quite good about because being so young she's my mum very much so and the disciplinarian rather than my dad my dad she could wind him around your wee finger you know I mean you really could but my mum

was definitely the disciplinarian no it's it it is I mean it's funny it's changed as she's got older I feel more responsible for her so the relationship changes a little bit as as she gets older and as she continues to get older she's in great shape she's fantastic but that changes me but I think I've gotten much more overprotective of her, if you know what I mean. And a wee bit, you know, she doesn't like me making a fuss and I do make a fuss a little bit. But she's my mum.

She's not my pal. You know, there's things I would never tell her in a million years that I would tell my best friends. But I would never tell her. Yeah, that's why you have your friends. Exactly, of course. And actually with my kids, I sometimes say to them, I'm not here for you to always like me. Sometimes I'm just here to pair on you. Indeed. And you know, sometimes somebody why you have your friends. Exactly, of course. And actually with my kids, I sometimes say to them, I'm not here for you to always like me.

Sometimes I'm just here to pair on you. Indeed, and you know, sometimes somebody that you love, you don't necessarily like them all the time. But you love them all the time, but they might really, really annoy you. Yeah. But now you are in the bit where your relationship with your daughter is in this different section when they're an actual fully grown adult. Yes.

And you've started doing a podcast together. So how is that? What's that like to you? Well, it was really interesting because it was Rosie's idea. She wanted to do a podcast because we, when she was in Singapore, she lived in Singapore for about four or five years

and she came back just after the pandemic started and she said, oh, you know the WhatsApp? We were always WhatsAppping. She said what we were going to do was she was going to do something that her and Singapore, me here, and the difference in the cultures, things that she's learned, things that's happening here.

And I thought that was a great idea that she had. But when she came back, we just had this idea about it's forks in the road. You know, you talked about that, about when you turn 40, you go down that road or you go down another road and it can change or things that happen in your life. Yeah. So it's been really, really interesting. I mean, you were terrific

and everybody's got all these great stories. You know, it is just a device to have a blinking good chat. Yeah, exactly. A lot of it's breaking the ice, isn't it? It's just great. It really is. And it's been lovely. And she's doing really well.

She works at Hello Magazine and she works for Times Radio. Horrible shifts, but she loves it. So she got the same drive with the information and news. I think so. She doesn't really want to be on the telly, but then, mind you, that wasn't something that I particularly wanted to do. I was working as a journalist on newspapers

and then I got a job at BBC Scotland. And then, this is 1983, remember, but BBC Scotland said I would never make it on the television because of my accent, because I speak with a Glasgow accent. And back then it was all very RP and it was quite posh. And you didn't have like Anton Deck and Eamon Holmes and, you know, people speaking the way, you know, from their area. You just didn't have it.

So when I got the job at TVAM, luckily the boss was Australian. So he, you know, he didn't have it and so when I got the job at TVAM luckily the boss was Australian so he you know he didn't care he said well we want a Scottish reporter and you're Scottish that's fine that'll do so that was that was very very lucky but I think she's I think she's more into producing producing and things like that so that's that's great. When she was little she would always see you doing all your research and that kind of thing yeah yeah I think I think that's been good that's instilled a real it's the work ethic thing and I think that's really important I mean I didn't sort of bang on about it but I just always think you can show by example like what you're doing in a sort of quiet way you can you can pass that on I guess and and that's always been really you know really important for me to because if you

make a mistake on here you can't blame somebody else if you haven't done the research yeah do you know what i mean yeah you can't well if you're fronting it then it doesn't matter you've got to take that's what your cards say they just want to know of course well that always makes me laugh and you know presenters those where's my cards and i'm like what are you talking about well i think there's some things when people say and i'm like don't say that other people don't know what that means or roll the vt or something it's like no one knows what vt means like just talk like a person. Exactly. I know, I know.

You have to talk like a person. That's why it's really important that, you know, for a show like mine especially, you've got to communicate to that person at home. You know, sitting having their breakfast or in their bed or putting their trousers on or whatever they're doing. You can't imagine whatever they might be up to. But yeah, you've got to make sure that you relate to them, you know. Yeah. It's really important. Yeah, and it's personable. can't imagine whatever they might be up to but yeah you've got to make sure

that you relate to them you know it's really important yeah and it's personable and I wanted to touch on something so when you said Rosie went to Singapore how did that go down with you

because I've sort of put that on my list of things I don't want them to do it's hard I mean of all the countries in the world Singapore you know

because it's so safe and the good thing was my brother lives out in that area he lives out in that area I He lives out in that area. I don't want them travelling. I just don't want them to live abroad. Yes, I know, I know. And it was, well, she didn't want to do a gap year.

So when she finished uni, she did journalism at Edinburgh University and then went to Singapore to work for a charity for a year. Loved it over there. And then got a job there. She worked for a, she worked in sort of like in a marketing company, but doing an awful lot

of PR for nightclubs and restaurants. Sounds fun. Oh, you can imagine, you can imagine how boring that was. She's a mother's daughter.

She loved it. It was absolutely brilliant and of course, we went out to see her but it was hard with her not there. Thank the Lord for,

you know, the WhatsApp, FaceTime, all that kind of thing and Zooms and everything because that really made it a zooms and everything and because that really made it a lot easier and I knew she'd be safe you know there's that thing because we would go out and see her and she would walk home you know after we'd be out and it would be like midnight

or you know and she'd say right bye and she would toddle off home and I wouldn't even worry about it and you know you'd when she came back to London I did have to sit and have a talk with her it was actually quite difficult not difficult it was necessary you I said, look, you can't walk home. I'd have this conversation with you, never mind if you're in London, Glasgow, Newcastle, Birmingham, Belfast, it doesn't matter. You can't walk home on your own. You cannot leave your drink on the bar or at a table and then go to the loo. You can't do it. It's irresponsible. There's all kinds of nutters out there, so you can't do it. You know, without scaring her, I was just saying,

you have to get your street smarts back because you've been in Singapore where people can leave things and, you know, it's so safe, especially for women, it's so safe. So that was a difficult conversation to have, but she's not daft. She's not daft.

But at the same time, how terrible we have to do that with our daughters and our sons, of course. It's not just our daughters. It's all our kids. How does it feel when you do have like a someone that you're you know parenting in their 20s how does that dynamic shift when that's the I suppose conversations like that but also just yeah and I guess it's really difficult because you know she says mum for gonna say I'm 27 you know for good I'm a woman growing I think that's the hardest thing the hardest thing is

to sort of say all right you are your own person and and when you don't have any it's not you don't have any influence anymore but you know there's that thing of you sort of know what they're doing it's that that's difficult when she went to university I didn't really know what she was doing it took the worry out of it I must admit sometimes because you know when when they're living at home and they're going out for an evening you're kind of like you know and she's like why have you waited up for me again oh I wasn't waiting up for you I just couldn't get to sleep I wasn't waiting up for you no no no I was watching this movie why would I wait up for you of course I've waited up for her but then of course they go away that's that's difficult but

funnily enough then you don't worry about them so much in that sense but it's it's hard to let go it's hard to but you're not the center of everything and I think for parents that's true for me certainly it was it was difficult you know it was it was it was hard but then it becomes something different and something I think something richer in a way you know you have that it's the relationship is very different um but the great thing is I think she still quite likes us. You know, she does spend time with us. And that's good. That's pretty incredible.

And of course we annoy her because that's her job. But yeah, there is a genuine sort of like real, real deep affection. And she will run things past us. But as I say, most of it, like for, you know, relationships and stuff like that, she would talk to her pals. Yeah. But anything practical, her dad, he's the go-to. Yeah.

No, but I think I like the idea of the relationship getting richer. It does, you know. It really does. You don't feel it at the time, especially when they first go. And it is hard. It's really hard. Yeah, that's the necessary transition, isn't it?

It really is. But it is hard. But I couldn't let her see that it was hard. I didn't want her to know that when we dropped her off at our tiny, tiny little, you know, these wee beds that they have in halls at universities and they smell of cabbage and they're horrid and damp and everything.

And it's a wee tiny one room and I could not tell her that I cried all the way home. I can't. No, no, they can't know. They mustn't because you just have to say, nope. But there's a lot of times that there's that virtual

little dagger in your heart and you have to like hide it you do you have to go oh no it's fine and oh no I'm so happy

that you're doing so well and you've made new friends and oh you know even when it starts when they're little and you drop them off somewhere where they don't want to go in and you know you have to drop them

or you know where they do their anger on you and slam a door at you because they're cross about something and you have to be like it's know where they you just do their anger on you and slam a door at you because they're cross about something and you have to be like it's fine really hard or hanging on to your leg and don't go to work I mean that's really difficult that's horrible and then of course two minutes later they're fine yeah you don't know that and you go to work going I'm the worst person I know I do I was shocked when I had my baby at the immediacy of the guilt that came. I know. I was like, why did nobody tell me this?

It's literally handed to you. Do you feel that on your back? That's your guilt. You'll have that about everything now. Sore boobs, piles, and guilt. Exactly. The three fabulous things that happened to you as a new mother. Those are some of the better things.

I know, I know. Oh, jeez. Yeah, and I suppose going back to the time when you had Rosie and you were on maternity leave and then found out that that job was not waiting for you. Is that something that felt very much of that time? So this would have been the 90s, right? Yes, it was 94.

It wouldn't happen now. I just don't see it happening now or it would have happened in a slightly different way perhaps but yeah but you know what it's like if you're freelance I mean my contract is up every couple of years I never ever take it for granted that it's going to get renewed even after all this time because you never know you just never know you know you're not guaranteed a job for life and certainly not in tv you know tv can be really ruthless it's like football it's like football managers you know it's a sort of merry-go-round it kind of happens so i you know i really don't take anything for granted i i don't and i think that probably stems from that experience but then maybe it's no bad thing

because you know you shouldn't feel that you're entitled to be in people's living rooms every single morning you know for the rest of your life you shouldn't feel that you're entitled to be in people's living rooms every single morning, you know, for the rest of your life. It's different to feel entitled to actually just have a job that has been decided you're not coming back because you've had a baby. Yeah, I know. And it was just because they wanted a change. You know, that was all there wasn't. You know, I didn't suddenly become terrible and they didn't suddenly become monsters. It was just they could. So they did. Do you feel like you've seen over the years the shift in how the sort of cultural perception oh very much so I mean even Sophie

even when I was pregnant you know on air because I stupidly kept working far too much I mean she was a little bit early so up until two weeks before she was born you know I was I was doing I was working I didn't I didn't expect to you know I wanted to have two weeks of running around mad and then two weeks of watching old movies with eating chocolate and that I've never had those two weeks I still feel that I'm waiting for them now I still want to watch my old Bette Davis films you know with with the vast quantities of of booze and chocolate but never quite got got round to it but yeah it was it's different times it's got a lot better I mean I think it's fantastic that we do job sharing at work we we hope you were trying to get much more much better child care facilities I

mean there are little little sort of dots of enlightenment all over the country but there's nothing joined up as far as far as that goes and it does stop women sadly sometimes for doing the job that they want to do and it's not fair it shouldn't be like that and it's really odd because I always think I never ask um or try not to anyway but I always ask actors who've got children men who've got children how do you juggle it as well as asking women because why do we always ask women how do you juggle your career and your children when we don't ask men that's brilliant do you know what I mean because we should,

because they're equal partners in the whole... Well, it also encourages them to, it normalises them prioritising it as well. Yeah, it does. And actually, to be fair, that has changed a lot. You know, I think men are a heck of a lot more hands-on than ever they were. Not all of them,

but it has changed an awful lot and that's good. It's not always on the women to have that terrible choice of career or children. That just doesn't happen now. By and large, it doesn't. And if women, you know, and women, if they want to stay at home, they should. Absolutely, they can. You know, financially, they can do that. Then, and that's what they want to do.

That's great. We shouldn't look down on that. You know, sometimes women who choose to stay at home are very often patronised. And that's not fair. That's not fair either. Because it's whatever works for you yeah you know it's whatever works for you and how you want to balance and prioritize your life that's that's totally up to you it's just that most women can't have that don't have that choice because they've got to work yeah you know that's the thing and they've just got to do it or if they do want to work they don't want to feel like

they're not they're supposed to go to work pretending they don't have a family life that's the other thing. There was that thing of, I've certainly noticed a huge sea change. And it's very interesting because obviously my editor, Victoria, is a woman. The boss of ITV Daytime is a woman. And the giant boss of ITV is a woman. And it's subtle, but the culture has definitely shifted. You can tell.

And now what I think that I can see, certainly from when I first started out, was it used to be that women who got to the top of the ladder pulled the ladder up and that was it. And they didn't. And actually they were in some ways worse than the men. It was as if they had to be more masculine, all the bad aspects of that, not the good ones,

because there are a lot of good ones, obviously. But now, you know, not only do they put the ladder back down again they reach out a hand you know and pull you up and and that's always what I think because I think well I I had some great people to help me when I was starting out and what's the point I always think to myself what's the point of me amassing all this knowledge about what I do um and I don't pass it on it doesn't make any sense does it so you have to pass it on to, you know, other members of the team or, you know, make sure that you create an environment

that everybody feels they can say anything. You know, they can say some silly idea and then you might go, oh, I'm not sure about that, but you know what, it might spark something else and that's great, you know, but you've got to create that environment and that's certainly what I've noticed, that real change since more women became more senior if you like there's definitely been a change which is great so if you've noticed all this change how have you

navigated your own time when you were raising a small child and you know school holidays and yeah important dates and diary and stuff were you did you feel like you were kind of going out on a limb if you prioritised it? Kind of I mean I've been very lucky that we this again is very far-seeing but you know I think probably about maybe more than 10 years ago and for myself for Philip and Holly and for anybody who works in daytime who had children they would give us a lot of the school holidays off obviously not any you know not all of them but a lot of them and that helped enormously but I remember when I was doing a radio show and Rosie was at nursery and she was only about two and a half and they were doing this the nativity play and Rosie was Mary now they didn't have any words because they're babies and it was it was crazy you know I love the idea of her learning a script though

but they sang, Twinkle, twinkle little star, and I mean, I mean, do you know that? And the baby Jesus, she held upside down and Joseph waved at his mum and the three kings were picking their nose and it was the most delightful thing. But I was doing a radio show

and I went and said, look, I'm really sorry, I can't, because I used to do my show and then bounce to this radio show. And I said, I can't come on this certain day because it's my daughter's in the nativity play oh I'm sorry you can't get the day off and it was like one of those oh dear and it was a Mexican standoff and I had to actually stick to my guns and say look I've got somebody lined

up that will replace me for this one day and I am so glad that I stuck to my guns it was hard because I mean it got really well we're not they weren't happy they were really not happy about it but if I'd missed that magical brilliant time and nobody we didn't film it but it's in my head every single second of it you know it was just gorgeous and it was just and it was silly and it was wee and it lasted five minutes and I don't care yeah beautiful and if I'd missed that for work, Sophie, I would have just, no. That was the good thing about doing the job that I do that's early in the morning because most things like sports days

or, you know, teachers' nights, you know, I'd always make sure I was there. I could never take her to school because back then it was four o'clock in the morning and that would be bad. Leaving your kid at the school gate at four in the morning. No, thank you. What are you complaining for?

I dropped you off, didn't I? Not a good idea. Yeah, yeah, I dropped you off. I know it's dark. I'll get light in a minute. Usually pick her up. kid at the school gate at four in the morning no thank you not a good idea yeah yeah usually pick it up usually not always not always but usually I could and sometimes sweating you know like fighting through traffic and just doing all of that but it's it was so important I had to be there for school plays and all of that sort of stuff it's like this is the thing it's the big the big moments those those, huge. And also you don't win any prizes when you miss them

because you never remember what it was you did on that day that was the work thing anyway. Well, I couldn't, do you know, I don't remember one single radio show and I remember every single second of that Nativity play. I don't remember anything of that because it was so long ago and it's just, you know, everything merges into something or other.

But I remember that. Yeah. Never forget it, it was great. Yeah, no, I think those moments, I think as well, I might be wrong, but I remember that yeah never forget it was great yeah no I think those moments I think as well I might be wrong but I think maybe the last couple of years as well of everybody having you know this sort of time at home has meant that we're better at balancing things a little bit and understanding that I think we are I think we I hope we hang on to that there weren't many there weren't many bits of light you know in this whole terrible time but that was one of them

and a sort of better sense of community was another yeah and being more tolerant of one another as well that

these are good things because we tried in the show obviously we reflected what was happening in the news and it was dire I mean I think

sometimes we forget maybe that's no bad thing that we forget but we always tried every day to try and find a little bit of light whether it was a kid just baking cookies for the NHS sometimes we forget maybe that's no bad thing that we forget but we always tried every day to try and find a little bit of light whether it was a kid just baking cookies for the nhs nurses in their local hospital or captain sir tom you know doing his walk or or whatever it may be every every day

we try to find a sort of act of kindness yeah um and it was great because it actually did really help whilst we were of course we were still doing how dreadful it was and because it actually did really help. Whilst we were, of course, we were still doing how dreadful it was. And it really impacted us because of what happened to Kate with her husband. You know, Kate Garroway's husband was one of the first to get really sick. And he's at home now and he's, you know, thank goodness he's at home surrounded by his family. But, you know, it's going to be a hard road. It's going to be a hard, hard road for him. She's remarkable.

Yes, she is. That sort of hit us quite a lot as an extended sort of work family if you like and brought it home to us just how serious it was but at the same time just trying somehow to find a little a little shaft of light I guess yeah and those things are very vital you've got to you've got to have something to hang on to look how we were all out you know clapping for the NHS and all of that. I mean, I know some people can be a bit cynical about that, but I did actually feel better. And I know it was really appreciated

by the NHS frontline workers. It really was. Actually, even thinking about it now makes me feel almost a bit like, like the magnitude of it, really. I think, you know, it's still so recent and we're now back into chugging ahead and looking forward and being distracted by lots of other nonsense.

And actually, when you reminded me of that memory, it's like, oh, yeah, that was when, you know, we really didn't see anyone. I'd literally see my neighbours down the road and think, oh, they're all in in their houses too. And all those day to day tensions and ups and downs and being so hooked on the news, just checking the numbers every day. so hooked on the news just oh for goodness sake numbers every day that's what I'm saying I was so lucky to to be able to go into work every day yeah yeah because it gave me structure there's a lot of people didn't have structure in their lives and and also just kind of opened a window a wee bit in the world because you know I was doing things like I would say how are they doing in the Falklands you know they're very remote down there how are they doing and you know what's happening there and you know what's happening in Taiwan how's New Zealand you know and we could because of zoom and all of that we

could do all these live links everywhere you know I was saying what about the international space station what's happening there what's going on you know we're doing all of these in Antarctica we were talking to people in Antarctica on the basis and just finding out how and and in the way that we didn't feel connected because we were all in our houses, that felt as if we were all connecting in some way. It was good in a sense. Yeah, it was definitely a barrier that got broken down that way. Something that's affecting everybody. Different, you know, variables within it,

but one big key theme. And global. Oh, it was. That's extraordinary, isn't it? Just an incredible, incredible time. That, I think we'll look back. I hope we've all learned something. I really do.

I hope we have. Thank God for the vaccine, though. Thank goodness for all of that. I know, yeah. And being able to protect ourselves and everyone else. I know. We're all for science and all that. So going back to when you were doing your show,

have you seen, I'm imagining you've seen big shifts in terms as well of the subject matter that's spoken about around parenthood and motherhood and things that people now can talk about that maybe. Maybe that you're right, you know, and it's so interesting about daytime telly and particularly breakfast telly is that we talk about everything. And we do, I mean, as you know, I mean, we have done, you know, live breast examinations because it's just a boob, right?

You know, we've done for testicular cancer, we've done you know live breast examinations because it's just a boob right you know we've done for testicular cancer we've done that too how do you examine your bits and your bobs and that's fine and we've talked about trans rights and gay rights

and just all sorts of things taboos you know and I remember gosh it was so silly but it was about five or six years ago

I wanted to do something on the menopause because I was going through it myself nobody would talk to me nobody would talk to me we ended up that Dr Hilary interviewed me about it and it's brilliant now and I mean I'm not saying we were the first we certainly weren't lots of other people were doing it around about that time um but I'm just so happy that all these subjects that I've mentioned people are talking about them

now yeah I think menopause is a huge thing actually yeah and there's no taboos there shouldn't be taboos there certainly shouldn't be taboos about you know are you worried about your child are you because sometimes i think people that's why things like mumsnet and all that and the internet's the internet can be a great force for good and certainly can if you're a mum at home thinking is that normal for my baby to be doing that is this normal for me to be feeling like this or you know should should this be happening I don't know and then to be able to share because sometimes you know you've had a baby you can feel really isolated and you know and parenthood shouldn't be some sort of one-upmanship or you know oh my child's talking mandarin at the age of two and a half you know I mean that's just

daft isn't it because they all develop at their own at their own pace but it's just sometimes quite nice to get that reassurance as well and that's why i think what we try to do is is is um hopefully helps people because that's what it's all about you know just helping people who maybe feel a bit disconnected and a bit lonely as well yeah yeah the isolation thing is a big thing huge good we talked about mental health on on on daytime telly years ago 20 years ago we were talking about it and and now it's brilliant that everybody else is but we've got to do more than just talk there has to be help for people it's great listen it's wonderful that nobody should ever ever feel ashamed embarrassed or awkward or anything um or worried about losing their job or worried about whatever but that's all very well to

to get people to talk about it but then where do you go you know where are the funds where are the resources where are the experts where are the people the counsellors that can talk to you or you know giving people information that helps them that's the next step the next step yeah it really is because there is going to be it's almost like a second pandemic there's going to be a huge explosion of mental health of course there is yeah you know especially with young people and thank goodness they're much more able to talk about it. It's great that they do. But then where do we go?

Then what, you know, somebody who says, look, I'm not coping, I'm overwhelmed, I don't know what to do. That's when we really have to have structures in place to help them, you know, and that's where, and that's where, you know, our poor NHS that's absolutely overwhelmed, you know, that's where maybe there has to be some radical thinking to to help people mental health problems yeah yeah very important hugely important yeah it's really really important

so thinking about with your your childhood must be quite different to the childhood that your daughter would have had very much so what do you think of the things that you did carry over? Are there many things? Or is it really just very, very different? It is different. It's different. But I think that the thing with me was, yes, we lived in a, it's called a, it was called a single end, which means that we lived in one room. And there was like a recess for your bed in the room. And you had a sink, but it was an outside toilet toilet where I was first of all in the Gorbals till I was about three. And then we moved to Bridgeton in the East End and we had an inside toilet.

I know, the luxury. Well, actually that is a pretty big deal if the previous one was outside. But it was only two rooms. And it was only recent. In fact, it was very recent. Me and my brother were laughing about it because up until I was 12,

we all shared one bedroom. Like me and my brother were laughing about it. Because up until I was 12, we all shared one bedroom. Me and my brother were in bunk beds. You know, bunk beds, I was on the top, he was on the bottom. And my mum and dad were in a bed and we were in the same room. And then we had another room and a wee sort of kitchenette.

But my mum had to boil kettles for water and stuff. I mean, it was nuts. It was absolutely nuts when you think about it. But if you don't know any better, and our house was a wee palace, you think about it but if you don't know any better that that's that and our house was a wee palace you would call it my mum just made it like a wee palace it was absolutely lovely and cosy and gorgeous and beautiful and and my mum and dad always they were self-educated but my mum and dad always had books around so that's a thing that's definitely carried on with me and Rosie

when she was little I just would, even when she was tiny, you know those ones that you can put in the bath and they just eat them, don't they? They're just chewing them. Or the wee cloth books and you just eat them. But to get her used to what books were. So that was certainly something that was a big deal because my mum and dad taught me to read and write

before I went to primary school, which was brilliant. I mean, it helped me enormously and gave me a love of books. That's actually amazing. It's incredible. It was a huge thing because it meant I was so ahead and I mean it just it just actually helped me in so many ways you know because I was quite a shy kid so it helped me a lot and instilled this love of reading that I've got to this day yes independence and power isn't it instilled that in Rosie and you know

read everything I always think it's really weird if you go into people's houses and there's no books at all or no reading material at all although having said that a lot of people have got it on kindles and whatnot and that's great as long as you're reading it doesn't matter whether you're reading online or reading a reading a book but for me I like a book in my hand I do like a book in my hand but yeah we've definitely passed that on it was all about education that was my parents always where which is why they were so disappointed when I was supposed to go to university and I would have been the first one. First one in the whole family, big deal.

Mum would have got the photograph on her mantelpiece of me with the funny hat on and the wee scroll under the arm, you know that one? Oh, geez. And of course, I got a job at the local newspaper instead when I was 16. So that did not go down well. But you know what?

It was only years afterwards they told me they never said at the time they never said a word they just said oh congratulations on getting the job that's great good luck but afterwards my mum was like oh we really wanted you to go thank goodness my brother the golden child um who's six years younger than me and was a terrible shock to the system when he was born. But he went to university and was the wonder kid. You know, he was great. But yet, Sophie, he was born and he was the fattest baby and he had massive big blue eyes and blonde curly hair.

He was like a cherub that floated down in a cloud from heaven above. And I loathed him. I loathed him. I was horrible to him. I used to nip his arms and everything. I was horrible because he I used to nip his arms and everything I was horrible because he and he was the golden boy people

my mum always goes people used to stop me in the street with your brother in his pram and look at him and just think oh he's the most beautiful thing

and I'd be like yeah right because of course I was six years old and the spoiled only grandchild until yeah that's very annoying

until this beautiful boy from central casting arrived exactly but we do get on really well now you stopped biting his arms I stopped nipping him, I stopped battering him and fighting with him and he stopped kicking me and we actually get on really well

it's good, he's a good lad he's a good boy that can be hard when there's a really amazing baby coming like hello, I didn't need that in my life. Who is he? No, no, send him back, please. There's plenty of Tinder reading right as well. That's my thing.

I know. Were you going to go and do languages? Was that right? Yeah, Russian. I did Russian at school. I wish I'd not done that and done Spanish because that would have been much more helpful. But yeah, I've lost it all, Sophie.

I've lost it. Although about, oh, it must be about five or six years ago now, my friend was living in New York and I went over to see her but yeah I've lost it all Sophie I've lost it although about oh must be about five or six years ago now my friend was living in New York and I went over to see her and she took me

to a vodka bar and it was full of Russians and after two or three vodkas apparently I was flaring at large yeah

just talking back isn't that weird wow I couldn't say a word to you now but if you give me a bottle of vodka I I would be okay. That's pretty amazing.

It's strange, isn't it? Does that fly all in your head? Yeah, I would love that. And that is one of my biggest regrets, is not learning more languages. You know, I would love to be able to do that. I just think the best superpower in the world would be to be able to talk to everybody,

every single person in their own language. Could you imagine? Yes, I would love that too. Wouldn't that be fantastic? If you talk to Australian every single person in their own language. Could you imagine? Yes, I would love that too. Wouldn't that be fantastic if you talked to Australian Aborigines in their own language or you could talk to Slavic people in their own languages.

You could talk to anyone from South America or anyone from Africa in their own language. Yes. The barriers would just, there would be no barriers. Yeah. It would be incredible.

Also just what you'd unlock in terms of your ability to communicate. But actually there's an amazing word for this feeling I'm experiencing. It's actually a really well-known word. I know, and when you can only sort of got your little pigeon French or your schoolgirl French or whatever, it's very hard. But I would love to be able to do that.

I wish I... That is one of my biggest regrets that I didn't keep that up. But maybe if you just drink the liqueur that is known in that area, you'll actually be fluent. That's pretty good. Yeah, that may be the way forward. well thank you very much coming around before you i set you free um i recently did a gig in glasgow and when i was on tour i did this thing which i thought was quite funny on the first night and then ended up being a bit of a mantle i passed myself which was

basically i always need a couple of things to talk about. And so everywhere I went, I started by like learning three or four facts from the area. Right. So it started in Birmingham. That's a good idea. Well, it just gave me like some chat, but then I got very serious about it and was learning quite specific facts

that sometimes I went too deep. Like when I did, there's a beautiful venue on the South Coast and I learned the names of the architects uh how old they were when they died what state in America they both died in where they've been born I just went way too deep okay but I'm sorry coming on to when I did Glasgow one of my facts about Glasgow maybe you know this is that in the area where you were born in the Gorbals area there's a church and that's where the remains of St. Valentine

is actually buried. Did you know that? I did not know that. Sophie Ellis Baxter. What did I say to you? I'll take my gift to you. Every day is a school day and you learn something new every day.

That's fantastic. I didn't know that. No, no, like literally. But I have to go and see it. Yeah, the original St. Valentine. So, love is in the air in that part of town. Love is in the air in Glasgow. It certainly was for my mum and my dad. Yeah, go and St. Valentine. So, love is in the air in that part of town. Love is in the aid in Glasgow.

It certainly was for my mum and my dad. Yeah, go and tell your folks. That's why. See, she's a wise woman, isn't she, Lorraine? And I'm now speaking to you from Sunday. And the sky is not blue. It is looking a bit overcast. I'm just off to do a festival today. And I'm heading to Marlow to do a festival called Pub in the Park and I'm taking all the kids. And it's forecast for rain. And they've now issued a yellow thunderstorm warning. So that's great. But there are reasons to be cheerful. Last night, Eurovision was great. Did you watch it? Really enjoyed it.

Well done to the UK. I have to confess, I was one of those who thought we're not going to do very well because I think we got very used to the fact that we get um a bit sort of uh yeah they throw the punches with the with this Eurovision in terms of um not really liking a lot of decisions that the UK make politically but um actually I have uh been happily been proved wrong this year because the UK came second which is phenomenal I really enjoyed watching it I love Eurovision I love Eurovision very much and that's good and then the other reason to be cheerful is the bowel babe fund which we're talking about at the top of this show um show oh my god sorry that sounded really stupid the top of the episode when I was doing my introduction um I don't know if that was any better. Anyway, it's now, I saw the news this morning,

over six million has been raised. Phenomenal. That's a lovely thing. And Debra is now a dame, which is incredible too. Yeah, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Lorraine. I really, I just think she's very cool. And I think, I believe so wholeheartedly in that whole philosophy of keeping curious and looking outside yourself especially as you get older it's

so vital and it's going to be the thing that keeps you young I reckon um so yeah it's just nice to have a lovely chat with a warm uh sensible person that was a nice way to spend my time. So thank you to her for coming over. Thank you to you, as ever, for lending me your ears. Have I decided which one I'm putting out next week? No, I'm not sure that I have, actually. Richard and I are doing a bit of travelling this week, so I think we'll probably go for one that doesn't need too many edits. And one of the conversations I've recorded,

the audio of me speaking didn't work so I've got all of my guests replies but none of mine my questions or responses to her to her can't answer so I have to I'm gonna have to re-record it and like be me again basically being like laughing at things and doing my little ad-libs and stuff. So that's going to be a bit weird. The thing about me, though, is I'm very, very predictable. So I think I'll be able to mirror it pretty disappointingly accurately. No alarms and no surprises.

And I'll only tell you afterwards which one it was. Anyway, I don't think I'll be doing that this week. So in the meantime, have a good week um i've packed all the raincoats for today hopefully hopefully the weather gods will be kind and uh yeah i will see you soon lots of love Thank you. I'm going to go. level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks, and hikes led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner. Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running.