Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 71: Frieda Gormley

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

Frieda Gormley - originally from Ireland and with a background working for Top Shop - set up the flamboyant interior design business 'House of Hackney' with her husband in 2011. They were doing up their house in East London at the time and wanted to get away from the plain white decor of the noughties. They set up what they themselves were looking for - a place to have a bit more fun with wallpaper and fabrics: think flamingos and palm trees and rich colours. I was an early customer, so when Frieda came to my home to record our chat, she saw quite a bit of her wallpaper on our walls - some of it with added grafitti from my youngest son, Mickey. Oops.Frieda talked about how inspirational her grandmother Peg was to the look an feel of House of Hackney. She remembers how starting their own business was extremely tough financially but meant that they could create their own rules, such as using UK-based manufacturers and more recently, giving their hard-working staff a 4-day week.Frieda and her husband Ravvy always loved their annual holiday in Cornwall, but 3 years ago they took the plunge with their two young children and moved there permanently. Frieda told me the intriguing story of the coincidences which led to them buying their new home. The word serendipity comes to mind! She recalls that the move from London to Cornwall was very unpopular with their children to begin with, and that as parents they had to re-examine their motives before pressing ahead. But it has since proved a total hit.Now, where's my calendar? I must book that playdate with her...Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis Bextor, it is produced by Claire Jones and post-production is by Richard Jones. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Oh my goodness, hello you. Have you missed me? I've missed you. I've really missed you actually i missed doing my podcast it's been um a really busy summer but um yeah i'm kind of feeling quite ready to get back to it all now i've got that sort of back to school feeling but unlike when i was a child it's a kind of nice feeling because it's

my children going back to school and not me and um they've uh we've had a really lovely summer together but it's just time you know when your days are getting a bit woolly and you're trying to work and then you're thinking just need a little bit more routine back in in the house because every time i come up for air with whatever projects i'm on they're all looking to me to have sort of facilitate fun times and it turns out that right at the beginning of the holidays I obviously said yes yes at some point we will do you know x many activities and then I didn't remember to do any of them so now I've got a week left and it's like right you promised me you're going to the arcade

promised me you're doing this and that so what's all that um but yeah you're right there Richard I'm just doing my podcast introduction I don't think you've ever been here when I do this I'm having a beer that's Richard having a beer um so yes I've already recorded see now the background noises are going to annoy you and they're you making them. That's alright. I'm just cooking supper while I'm talking to you. It's, what day of the week is it? It's Tuesday and the week before this goes live. So this is going to be a Monday. Exciting. I've already recorded a ton of the podcast interviews as well, which is nice.

So I already know for certain that there are some lovely conversations coming your way. And today I'm starting with a really, one that's close to home, quite literally, and that it's somebody who has created a lot of interiors that I like so much I've put them in my home, because it's Frida Gormley who set up House of Hackney. So House of Hackney is responsible for these really beautiful interior design things like wallpaper and fabric and furniture and accessories. And it's, you know, listen, it's quite premium, but it's really beautiful. So what I did is I just put it in specific places in the house. So I've got some of their wallpaper in my kitchen on one wall I've got some fabric in on one of my so little little sofa upstairs I've got wallpaper in a little bit of the bedroom I've got wallpaper in one wall in the sitting room and I've also

I think my favorite thing is the carpet that I put on the stairs just going up to the first landing so they're basically what you see when you come in the house and it's completely gorgeous carpet really beautifully patterned so it's flowers and it's all kind of it's nice and botanical and it's all William Morris inspired and it's just gorgeous so I think for me you know I spend so much time at home and I also get real pleasure from looking around the house and seeing things I like and seeing colours I like. So for me, like, putting these really choice things sort of in and around the house has brought me so much pleasure.

And it was really lovely to talk to Frida because, as you know, I get pretty excited when I speak to people who have set up their own business. But also the path to House of Hackney becoming what it is now really had to put Frida and her partner like they had to put everything on the line for it it was a complete leap of faith with what they were doing and raising their first baby while they were in the process of setting up the business and really having to sacrifice all extra stuff you know including sort of any any luxuries it was all pretty pretty basic living for the whole year when they were setting up the company just because that's what you have to do sometimes to see if you can bring it to fruition so she's nice and open about all that stuff

and what else has been going on trying to think before going to the conversation i've been doing loads of festivals which has been brilliant and thanks to this incredibly hot summer it's been a very unusual summer for me and that every festival has been blue skies and sunshine we haven't done a single gig in the rain and that means everybody's been in a good mood so we've done some really beautiful locations I've got lots of like I've got like a little roller deck of memories in my head of different crowds in different locations all kind of getting behind the gigs which has been just glorious and I always love what I do but this summer in particular because everything has been quite so special and the crowds have been really phenomenal I've done my absolute best to really commit it all to memory just sort of drink

it in a little bit because you know I've been doing what I do for a long time now I'm 43 years old I started singing at 16 did my first festivals at 18 so you know 25 years on to still be doing it and having such a nice time with it. It's not lost on me that that's quite special. So that's been cool. And I don't think I've really done much else, it feels like. It's just been singing all over the place. Did manage to have a little family holiday right at the beginning of the summer holidays. And then since then, I've been entertaining the kids by bringing them with me on the tour bus.

They are not interested in my gig in the slightest, but the tour bus they do like. They like the bunks. They like the staying up late. They like getting the snacks out of my dressing room rider. They like hooking up their Switch to the telly and the tour bus and playing Switch with their mates. And that is basically what they've been doing. So last weekend I did that with my 13-year and his friend and 10 year old and I had a blast that was actually really cute and yeah got a few more festivals left and then

on to the next bit but I hope you're feeling the same as me you're kind of ready for the autumn now it's been gorgeous but I'm sort of feeling like yeah let's go on to the next chapter oh actually I did something a little bit embarrassing today. I don't know if I should tell you this, but Jesse wanted to dress up as Cyclops, I think it was. And he needed some yellow ribbons. We went on the hunt for yellow ribbon, which led us to Paper Chase, who really bizarrely had Christmas decorations out. And I was like, that's ridiculous. And then I bought a bauble wreath. So I don't know what came over me it's august and i just bought christmas decoration today and i think i'm saying like just judge me because that is wrong um oh i know what else we did richard and i brought a cookbook that's nice it's called love food family and it's loads of

family recipes and in fact tonight for supper i couldn't think what to make and i had a flip through and i'm doing our uh chicken couscous, like a sort of Moroccan style one. Tasty. And on that note, I'll let the conversation with Frida and I take over. And thank you so much for coming to find me again. It's really nice to have you near once more. Well, good morning, Frida. Really lovely to have you over. And first of all, what is it like to come into a house that has quite so much of your work on the walls?

Because we're in another room. You've been in two rooms now with House of Hackney wallpaper in it. Good morning, Sophie. Thank you so much for having me around to your beautiful home um and I'm yeah I'm thrilled to be here and I absolutely love your your interpretation of of House of Hackney in your home that's so sweet I like that interpretation what about my three-year-old interpretation because I when you came I was like am I going to show you the bit where Mickey's drawn around some of the flowers and the wallpaper in the kitchen? You seem to take it in your stride. No, definitely.

I think you've got a budding artist there, so it's all about creative expression. That's what we stand for. So, yeah, I encourage it. Sorry to say. Well, you say that, but how are your children in your home in terms of their, if they drew on things, what happens in your house? Or is it quite chilled? Well, I think we're probably past that stage now of drawing on the walls.

We definitely had it when they were little. But, you know, we really believe in that homes are to be lived in. You know, there's no such thing as a good room in our house. You know, it's, yeah, they're to be lived in, to be enjoyed. And, you know, everything we kind of, we make, it's, you know, we talk about the product as being kind of beautiful and useful, inspired by, you know, that was William Morris's mantra. Does this have nothing in your home you do not believe to be useful

or know to be beautiful. Exactly, exactly. So it's got to have purpose. It's got to be, you know, be practical. But, you know, the aesthetic is, you know, yeah, you want to be inspired by it as well. Yeah. And have you always been like that?

Have you always been someone that looks around and sort of sort of sinking in everything that you can see? Yeah, I think I've always had very sort of strong spatial awareness. I used to, as a child, I don't know if I should

be admitting this, but I'd be invited on a play date to a friend's house and he'd be playing in their bedroom and I'd be like, let but, you know, I'd be invited on a play date to a friend's house and he'd be playing in their bedroom and I'd be like, let's rearrange your entire room. I love that so much. Yeah, and parents would love me because I would tidy it with the, you know, but it would always be from a creative point of view. I was always, you know, changing up my own bedroom, moving things around,

kind of, you know, drawing kind of what I'd love my bedroom to be and, you know, clouds on the ceiling and sort of showing my parents and, you know, didn't get very far with it, but was always sort of, yeah, playful with an interior space. I love the idea of you going around on playdates and moving furniture. How, was it literally like, have you ever thought of having your bed on that side of the room yeah I mean I don't think I didn't even know what an interior an interior designer was or anything this was just probably you know very sort of very innocent but you know

let's let's make your room beautiful you know so um yeah that that's always been been quite important I think beauty and uh harmony and obviously you know creativity in a space so yeah you know it's it's always and I've never studied interiors or anything but it's just something that um is yeah I'm quite quite in tune with and and enjoy so if you never studied interiors how did you end up making an interiors company? Good question um I mean as I said sort of you know from an early age I was sort of you know if I sort of look back at you know sort of how I was and I think you can you can really see these sort of you know you can see early on a child's sort of gifts and talents and sort of interests you know it just it comes

out you know quite I can see it in my own kids what you know their natural inclinations are um so yeah was as I said sort of very interested in sort of setting up spaces and making them sort of beautiful and and at the same time um I was you know always sort of running little sort of fun businesses with my friends on my street um never for money always just for sort of creativity and fun and you know we'd we took over my parents garage and we'd sort of you know make things and then set up a stall outside my parents front gate and sell them and you know give the money to charity was never ever financially motivated always by kind of by heart and by spirit but always sort of was organizing people and you know

and sort of went from that to you know know, just always sort of setting up little companies. I set up a little music festival in Dublin, which is where I'm from. Yeah, always sort of the need to be creative and, yeah, you know. Harness people and get them all focused on something and bring them together. Totally.

So I've always sort of had that, you know, that sort of that track record. And then when I was in my 20s in Dublin, I bought an ex-council house. And I suppose that was my first sort of interiors project. And I was on an absolute like shoestring budget. And I would, you know, come home from work. So I actually went down a route I studied law at a university um I'm from a family of uh solicitors and lawyers and I yeah kind of went

down that route even though my dad was like you know you're a creative I don't think it's for you but I loved English and history in school and saw my family you know really loved their jobs and I was motivated by by that really um so went down um so studied law at Trinity in Dublin and where I had yeah an amazing sort of student experience but my heart wasn't in what I was studying um and uh it was just by chance that a friend was on a fashion buyer trainee program for a company called Dunn Stores, which is like Ireland's equivalent to like John Lewis. And, you know, I had actually had this little part-time job in a vintage shop in Dublin where I'd started buying stock um for

the owners and uh but I didn't actually even know that there was a you know there was a career as a as a buyer or a fashion buyer just it wasn't sort of yeah in my sort of this was it was sort of yeah you know stylists fashion buyers it was kind of this was just sort of there were kind of new careers that were coming through but they weren't really on my radar yeah um so anyway I loved the sort of the thrill of you know buying stock it's selling well doing the window dressing this vintage shop um and you know by chance a friend was doing doing this by by a trainee program and it was you know this mix between um between I suppose creating creating a product and also that I suppose the commercial side to it as well the business side to it um and I just yeah went for this program got onto it and yeah it just it

really sort of that that sort of that mixture between the creativity mixed with, with, I suppose, yeah, you know, the business side. Business analysis as well, yeah. Really, really spoke to me. And kind of, yeah, sort of landed, you know, landed there and, and was sort of, you know, creating product, mostly fashion product, you know, finding a supply base, learning the whole sort of numbers side of it. It was sort of, that really was my university education. It was obviously, you know, a product that I wasn't particularly interested in. It spoke to me, but it was a great sort of foundation.

And, you know, I was very early on travelling around the world, you know, visiting factories and sort of uh, you know, I was very early on traveling around the world, you know, visiting factories and, and sort of learning, you know, yeah, learning the ropes basically. Um, I used to go to London quite a bit. I had a boyfriend in a band and, uh, we'd come to London and go to gigs. So he'd, you know, he'd be playing and sort of fell in love with London and fell in love with, you know, I remember the first time I walked into Topshop flagship Oxford Street. Oh, yes.

You know, it was the time of Topshop. Yeah, it used to be my mecca for definite. Blew my mind. And, you know, so a few years, you know, in, I was sort of, you know, so a few years, you know, in I was sort of, you know, felt, OK, this is what I wanted. This is, you know, this is what I want to do. But I had my sights just firmly set on on London and had sort of, you know, Dublin was a brilliant place to grow up in. And, you know, you kind of in terms of the scene there, you kind of have a front row, you know, sort of seat on the music scene there. And it was a brilliant kind of, you know, education in itself.

But, you know, you get to a stage where you kind of outgrow it. And there wasn't, I couldn't kind of get further in my fashion buying career. So I ended up getting a job on the Topshop buying team which was uh at the time an absolute dream come true yeah I'd also broken up with my boyfriend and uh needed sort of to you know we did the same friendship group and I was like I've just got to go and do do my thing so moved to London with a small little a small suitcase um and uh yeah lived off Brick Lane that was where I where I landed first and just yeah you know quite quickly fell head over heels in love at London um you know I I joined Topshop at a really

important time for the brand so it's a sort of early noughties kind of time exactly exactly so uh Jane Shepardson um was at the helm um and you know I'd come from uh working for Dunn's it was very old school very hierarchical and then I landed at Topshop and it was um actually sort of you, incredible people at every level. It was, you know, filled with like female talent, basically. And I think Jane really showed, I mean, she was, you know, she was so visionary and pioneering in terms of, you know, how you could sort of run a corporation positively um so the lady that

kind of came into Topshop and sort of basically turned it around and made it yeah what it was in that era yeah absolutely so she you know she was really hot on sustainability before it was a theme and you know fair trade using organic um organic fabrics um you know ensuring all the factories were certified um she was also very much about um you know she she kind of created the first high street collaboration so you know working with christopher kane and you know it was it it was sort of it it made high fashion democratic. That's very forward thinking, because now we're really used to the fact that that's what happens,

but that very much wasn't the case then. Absolutely. And I think, so she was, you know, so I kind of really was so inspired by her and her vision and how she treated everyone. And I was sort of, you know, really able to see how a successful brand could operate with you know um at you know strong values and the links with I suppose the different functions

of marketing and PR and all that kind of stuff yeah um she left a few years in and things changed and, you know, it obviously signalled the decline of Topshop. And I had by then met my future husband, Javi, and we had had our first child. We'd bought our first home together. and I think when you have children, there's a change in oneself, certainly had a real sort of, my consciousness rose and I was very much sort of deeply considering, okay, yes, so what I was doing, the ethics of sort of the disposability of the high street

um and you know we're still very much you know interiors were so sort of firmly still in in my heart um I actually did a proposal to do an interiors brand for a top shop, which was declined. And that, and I sort of had all these ideas. And that actually sort of almost, it was, you know, they talk about, you know, there's luck and disappointment. And I think that decline actually made me, made me consider, well, maybe I just need to do this myself. Or with, you know obviously with with Javi so um so yeah that uh and you know very much sort of we we had just bought our first home

and you know we'd lived through sort of a decade of white walls um um, minimus living, you know, Danish leather sofas. Um, and the world in the late 2000s was quite an austere one economically, politically, and we were all sort of living in these very sort of white boxes, which felt like almost like dental surgeries. And we, you know, we'd both grown up in the eights sort of surrounded by you know William Morris, Laura Ashley, Colfax and Fowler and I think there was you know there was a sense of wanting to sort of almost go back to that feeling of nostalgia that sort of safe place um there you know and and wanting to bring know, to make our home sort of happier because the outside world was so bleak and bring, you know, colour, texture into it. It was sort of in terms of the interiors

world, there was sort of, you know, Ikea, the high street sort of, you know, disposable interiors brands at one end. And then at the other end, you know, in terms of being able to buy nice wallpaper or fabric, you had sort of your Chelsea Harbour, which, you know, ultimately had the same ranges, you know, that they'd always had and kind of very much spoke to an older age group. And we just, we couldn't find what we were looking to decorate with. And so, yeah, very, very bravely decided to sort of create our own.

Javi had come from, so I suppose I'd come from, you know, a fashion buying sort of in, you know, knowing how, I'd learned how a brand operates. Javi had come from a, he studied fashion at university and then he'd moved into product design. He's super technical. He, you know, built our first website, did the first, you know, did the branding for the brand. So between us both, we kind of pulled our skill sets, which was a very complimentary one.

And is this all with having a very small baby? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was only one. Yeah. Wow. So there's quite a lot of things going on simultaneously. Yeah, I mean, they were absolutely the baby stage of our life so yeah the baby stage of the brand baby stage of the kids um and it was very you know they they were the the early years of I think people think that like you know Hasfakni was a was a was a success from the start but those you know we launched with such a different um sort of interiors proposition you know and it sort of it was so kind of alien and you know it was obviously quite a brave one

um and you know and we also kind of came from nowhere it was like well you know what is this brand who are these people um and you know and we very much you know for us it was so the you know the the world of interiors was also very much based on using interior designers that the high end world of it yeah and we very much you know we're about democratic design that's very important to us. And we wanted to be able to empower the customer to be able to, you know, create the interiors that they want without there being kind of any, you know, any stuffy rules. Yeah.

And, you know, because it's obviously everyone has different tastes. It should always be kind of from the heart. Yeah. And, you know, so the direct-to-consumer piece for us was quite important because you couldn't, you know, you couldn't actually buy that. You'd have to go through an interior designer. And, you know, you couldn't buy wallpaper just, you know, on a website. Well, so it's a big change, actually, isn't it,

in all directions for how we view interiors now. Yeah, really. Yeah. And people, I suppose, I'm thinking as well that it's sometimes when people have just had a baby, they can find it quite hard to sort of remember what the stuff is that they like and put their personality out. But actually, what you've done with your stuff is so bold and playful and I was thinking about it I was you know looking over all the pictures and there's such confidence behind it and do you do you remember feeling like that

from from the beginning of the business and from you know that new motherhood or is that something that's kind of grown yeah I mean I think um I I think we were confident, I suppose, as people who have, I suppose that, you know, we've always had our fingers on the pulse of sort of what's coming through. We can kind of feel a mood coming through. So we were confident in what we were feeling aesthetically. feeling aesthetically um however it was so like in our you know it we were also quite nervous about launching it because it was you know it it it was sort of so new um and you know where are people going to like it was this just in our own minds um and you know so we we actually and you know beyond the aesthetic was very important that the product was going to be, you know, well made. We, you know, we're very inspired by a traditional British aesthetic, but which we kind of juxtapose and, you know, play with.

So for us, it was really important that, you know, being inspired by this this aesthetic that it would also be made in the uk um but it wasn't an aesthetic that we're going to send to china and you know copy this and you know we were very inspired very you know the the foundations of the brand so you know made in england um you know supporting uk industry um know, product that was going to be so well made that it would last for a long time, that it wouldn't be disposable. All of this was, you know, very important to us as people. So we didn't have, obviously I'd come from the high street and we didn't have, you know, neither of us had worked in interiors, which in a way, looking back, was great because we didn't know what the rules were.

Yeah, sometimes that's quite an advantage in a weird way, isn't it? Yeah, because we could sort of put it together in just what we felt was sort of a common sense approach and what we would like as a customer. But we didn't know, you know, we had these designs and it was like, well, we've got to get these made. So we spent, you know, we spent a good six months in a van, like traveling around the UK, like knocking on doors, trying to find manufacturers to make, you know, make the product. Which was in itself very much sort of a personal journey.

It was a geographical journey. very much sort of a personal journey. It was a geographical journey. But what was so nice was that, you know, we discovered that there are pockets, there are traditional pockets of the UK where, you know, which are synonymous with, you know, a type of industry. So Stoke-on-Trent, you know, China, you know, fabric, Lancashire, you know, furniture making in Nottingham.

And we found all these sort of very much generational factories that were, you know, where the trade was handed down from father to son. And they were still in existence. And, you know, we were able to set up this little sort of you know portfolio of factories with which each would take a category and to this day 10 10 years on it's still the same the same and we've both grown together so you know it's that for us and actually because actually those factories are there they are our extended family they are so such an important part of what we do yeah you've made it really

integral that it's like a sort of heritage brand I mean I was thinking about when you were saying about your own childhood and both of you being surrounded by all those things those names you know from my childhood too I'm a child 80s as well 79 strictly speaking but those names, you know, from my childhood too. I'm a child of the 80s as well, 79, strictly speaking. But yeah, and, you know, Laura Ashley and all those things. And I was wondering how significant it was that, because when you have a baby, sometimes you start thinking about your own childhood and the bits of it that you want to replicate. And sometimes it's quite a conscious thing

and sometimes it's much more subliminal. So I wondered how significant it was that you were setting up that family home while you're creating all of this stuff. memory of like falling asleep and looking at the wallpaper and you know kind of drifting into sleep and almost the wallpaper drifts into your dreams um you know so yeah I think you know very much yeah yeah you're right actually that whole thing of being well every all the details as well are so they're so sort of significant because when you're small everything's coming in at the same level so you don't really you're not filtering it through in the same way we would so you're kind of taking on board everything there there's a story behind everything you know like you know

you might stare at the wallpaper as you say and then find yourself drifting off into a little daydream about the adventure you'd have in it but when you're you lose that don't you as you get older yeah unless you make it again part of your world I suppose I think having children you are taken back to to your childhood and those sort of sentiments you know so um but I think you know we're you know fast forward 10 years and I'm so pleased that you know in color is back in the interior that you know, that there's more of an importance placed on the home. I think that was one of the, you know, the upsides of the pandemic was, you know, prior to that, it was almost a place to sort of sleep and, you know, run out the door to work and come back.

And I think, you know, know we all need we all need roots we all need a happy place a sanctuary that you know i mean we we are back in a place where the world out there is harsh again yeah so you know so yeah to be able to to to create um a safe and happy um sort of other world you know, in our homes for ourselves and for our children. You know, that's really important. Yeah, and I think as well, you mentioned before the idea of it being playful. That's really important too, as for grown-ups too. So you feel that you can express yourself and try things out.

And it doesn't matter if you've done something and you think, actually, that colour's a bit much or whatever. and it doesn't matter if you've done something and you think actually that colour's a bit much or whatever. I think though that not everybody is sort of lucky enough to know how to articulate what their personality is on walls. Some people have really struggled with it. When you were small, did your home have lots of personality in it, your childhood home? Yes, I suppose it did I mean um it was um so I'm one of

I'm from a family of four okay um and uh quite a busy home uh yeah no just myself my sister oh I see just include your parents in that yeah no so my mum actually, my mum had come from a family of 13. Oh, wow. And she's like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, so it was, and I think she came from a... 13. Yeah. Where's she in the running order? Third. Third, okay. So she very much sort of raised the younger ones. Yeah, I bet. And it was a very happy household, but one of extreme chaos. And, I mean, they'd still, you know, they would cook, you know, she'd tell me about the amount of potatoes that they'd peel every day. But it was many hands, I think, make light work.

Is that the side of the family with your, is it your grandma Peg? Yes. Because I heard that she was quite a big influence as well. really was yeah that's that's so nice to say um uh yeah so her it says yeah it was very much you know kind of a she was the the matriarch um and uh so yes her she i mean she was a real you know esthete in herself anyhow and she was on first name terms with all the antique dealers in Dublin and really appreciated, you know, it was obviously a big family. So there wasn't, you know, a huge amount to go around. But, you know, there was eight girls and three boys, and she'd make all the girls you know their clothes for going out like

discos and everything and uh they'd always be like the nicest china and collections of beautiful glasses and lots of like she loved leopard print which she called oscillate um lots of velvet so it was oh wow that's this is i can see a lot of these things. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So, but yeah, so, so, so my, my mum kind of came from that. And then I think sort of rebelled against it. Yeah, had it right back. Only had two children. And she, my mum was a housewife and she just, I mean, she was like house manager and, you know, was very lucky to sort of yeah have sort of she she made sure the home functioned really well so um so there's less to manage I think as well if you

yeah yeah yeah definitely less potatoes to yeah no absolutely but yeah very different aesthetic to to her childhood home um you know, a lot sort of brighter. But I think the Irish have always been quite playful with colour. Perhaps it's in contrast to the weather. But, you know, yeah, always sort of quite bold in their paint colours and lots of sort of red walls and green walls. And so, yeah, I think that's probably in in there too yeah yeah no that those things are so significant all those textures and all the sort of snapshots you almost have in your head of all the things you saw growing up and yeah and the things you want to

replicate and then you've recently it's funny because before we started recording you were saying about your move to Cornwall so you moved to Cornwall three years ago which is a big move yeah you said it kind of was a slightly unexpected chapter. But when I was looking up some of your interviews, I found one from 2017, I think it was, where you were saying how much you love Cornwall and how it's like your favourite place in the world and, you know, the mixture of sort of tropical

and, you know, the climate there and everything. Yeah. So do you think you always had your eye on it a little bit for moving there? Yeah, I mean, I think I've learned you've got to be very it a little bit for moving there yeah I mean I think I think I've learned you've got to be very careful what you wish for it yes I mean I think from you know so we used to in the early years of the business I mean we've sort of been through different stages from those sort of the the baby stage to um know, the children being kind of at school.

And, you know, and we were still incubating. We were still, you know, giving life to the business, you know, and we lived on London Fields. So we had, you know, our house there, the kids' school. So this was the original house of Hackney? Absolutely, yeah. You know, the children's school was This was the original house of Hackney. Absolutely, yeah. You know, the children's school was, you know, two minutes away. Work was here.

So everything was so close together, really convenient. And, you know, neither of us have family close by. Mina in Ireland and Javi's are in Somerset. So we've always sort of, you know, needed to, yeah, have, in those early years, the convenience was really important. And so we used to, in the summer, you know, we used to go to Cornwall

for two weeks every summer and recharge in nature. We would go every year to a festival called Port Elliot. We've never actually been to that, but i've heard it's really lovely yeah you would have loved it um it's a it's a real you know festival of of of ideas and creativity and very family orientated and um so we'd we'd always build a little two-week holiday around it. We'd go camping. And the festival was set in south-east Cornwall, which is a place where most people sort of drive past.

It's on its own sort of undiscovered peninsula. But, yeah, Port Elliot sort of brought us to this place and we fell, like, in love with it. And we'd always go, you you know go for a whole day and we'd we'd arrive sort of really you know burnt out um and you know and we two weeks later we we would just be going back to London like rebooted and full of like new ideas and um so it was a very inspiring place for us um so four years ago it was so another thing that we loved doing when we went to Cornwall was to visit Cornish Gardens. So Cornwall has its own microclimate.

And so tropical vegetation can live really happily beside its hydrangeas. And obviously as a brand, we're very inspired by nature. And, you know, Mother Nature is our design muse. So we love visiting the Cornish Gardens. It is a very beautiful place, Cornwall. It is, yeah, it really is. So four years ago, we were packed, we had the car packed up and we were about to drive back to London after our two weeks

and we were on the A38 and I saw a sign saying Tremerton Castle Gardens and I said to my husband, I said, Javi, stop the car. We haven't been here, I've heard it uh please can we can can we check it out um before we you know we we had a little bit of like post-holiday blues um and the kids were like you know chorus of no more gardens mom no anyway managed to convince them and we we so yeah the the gardens were open to the public during the summer months so we we parked up um and uh we didn't have the it was like cash only and we didn't have any cash but the the people running it were like come in have have a wander um so we spent a nice morning just you know visiting visiting its its beautiful gardens which at the time uh were you know, visiting its beautiful gardens, which at the time were, you know, famously gardened by the Bannermans, who, they're quite renowned landscape gardeners, and they planted

it in a beautiful sort of pre-Raphaelite way. So it was like, you know, medieval with all these sort of, yeah, you know, beautiful, wild, romantic flowers. And Tremerton is a place where there's all these different worlds within a world so it has castle walls but then there's a medieval part and there's an Indian part and there's you know woodlands um but when you visited the gardens you didn't actually go near the house um so we yeah had a blissful morning and, you know, got back in the car, drove back to London. And very strangely and coincidentally, a few days later, I got a call from a friend. It was on, it was like a Tuesday evening. Javi was out and got a, yeah, got a call out of the blue by this person who knew I loved for Cornwall

and said, you know, how's it going? And, you know, I just have this interesting proposition for you. I had lunch with my friends on Saturday and it was all quite vague. And he was like, you know they they have this beautiful place in Cornwall and they are looking to move on from it it's getting a bit much for them I thought of you guys um and I was like well Andrew we're just back from Cornwall um you know where and you know where are you talking about and he's like it's called Tremerton Castle um so I literally had you know sort of electricity,

a bolt of electricity went down my back, and I was like, he was like, have you heard of it? I was like, that's so strange. We've literally just visited it. That's crazy. Yeah, it really was. And he was like, well, what did you think of it? And I was like, well, it was such a magical place.

You know, we obviously didn't go near near the house um but we we we we loved it so he was like well look you know this was lunchtime talk so very strangely he and his friends who were the the past owners were having lunch in the house while we were at the same time that we were we were going around the garden yeah so it felt sort of quite you know serendipitous is the first time in my life that it you know all of these coincidences you know and I've always had this little sort of antique map of Cornwall by my desk in London and definitely you know and actually when I looked at it sort of after this call um when I went went back into the office and I could see Tremerton just sort of jumping out at me yeah um

and you know it had always sort of been yes you know we work really hard that someday we can really you know go to our happy place yeah yeah as much as we loved hackney and love it to this day um you know the need for us to actually be in nature was becoming sort of more you know it's almost like a visceral need okay um so um so anyhow long story short i mean we we we we agreed you know it we we agreed it without even seeing the house wow to be fair there was a lot of pressure from the fates here weren't there yeah there was I'm not saying you have to buy it but that place you just happened to fall upon you were there your friends are saying you can have it yeah yeah yeah I'm not even sure I haven't even seen it but okay yeah I mean it kind

of felt like there's a calling here which um and a calling of the adventure and you know if if we looked at sort of obviously it was a very unexpected twist in our journey but you know looking at sort of where we were in our lives yeah our kids were you know our son was in year five um so they you know if we were going to move it was the right time to make a move yeah um the business was sort of you know standing up by itself. We had a really good, you know, management team in there as well that we felt, yes, you know, we could make it work. It's quite a big jump though, isn't it, to suddenly up sticks and...

Yeah, it really was. And you know what, we didn't even know if we were doing the right thing. I mean, the children desperately did not want to leave their their london lives um you know we were sort of deeply involved in the community and the football team and the school and and they you know yeah they it they weren't excited by it um that's hard isn't it it really was so it felt you know there was a real you know we were sort of deeply you know inquiring are we doing the right thing are is the motivation right you know I think we knew deep in our heart that this was it was for our family but yeah you know and it was going to be a good thing but we we were very happy in our lives as well so but anyhow you know life is a series of adventures

and um so we yeah we we we marched forth and knowing that we were taking on you know a very beautiful but you know an estate yeah um that um had a lot of sort of upkeep and maintenance that was going to be needed. The house itself was Georgian, very beautiful, of a nice size that was sort of actually, you know, nice for it to be a family home. I mean, we pretty much use it all. That's important, isn't it? To feel like the house is full of life.

You haven't got, like, bits of it you just don't really see or rooms you don't go into. Absolutely. I mean, we sort of just spread out in it pretty quickly. But there was going to be a lot of, you know, I think probably the house and gardens called us because we had the energy and the passion as sort of, you know, to be its custodians,

because that's what we are, and to sort of love it and nurture it. And yes, you know, it's an ongoing, the maintenance is never-ending. Yeah, that won't end. However, you know, the sort of, you know, our philosophy, you can't say, oh, this is is such hard work and I'm so sick of cleaning this house or I've you know my back is broken from gardening or whatever it's it's such a special magical place that you know the mindset is that it's you know it's a pleasure to look after it yeah and there's a you know for us to enjoy it you've got to put the work into

looking after it as well so and I guess where you're at now must feel a very sharp contrast to that bit when you were starting at the company and I know when before we started recording you were talking about the bit where you literally were just pretty much hand to mouth in terms of starting the business so you know that, that's 10 years on now. So can you sort of remember that feeling of the beginning bit of those days when you were building it before it was successful? Yeah, I mean, I think it really sort of stays with you. You know, we had quite bravely, as I said, sort of, you know,

thrown in our good jobs to start House of Hackney. I think I probably was a little bit naive, I think, coming from Topshop and seeing that if, you know, if you launch a campaign in the press, you know, to fanfare, the customer will find you and, you know, you start selling. And, you know, that's fine if it's an established brand. But we were, you know, we were, we came from nowhere. And we had to sort of find those customers. So I think, you know, we expected to, you know, to be able to start getting an income from it,

you know, even a small one quicker than actually what you know you we had to build the house of hackney basically um so that first year was um was extremely you know extremely scary um i mean i used to literally I was like, just, yeah, white from what have we done? You know, and going from from from having a salary to living in, you know, in in poverty. We were literally had about five pounds a day, which was just for food. I remember, you know, I remember like and that that's a very very humbling experience it you know for the first time in my life it was like well this is actually what being on the bread line feels like and um you know sort of the you know what you're sort of you know what that almost food shop comes

down to like the niceties go out the window you know it's it's the good basics and actually you can also see why crap food you know is so much cheaper than than good food you know so um than healthy food and you know your sort of options of being able to buy you know i don't know organic versus you know all of that is gone yeah so um it it it you know, I don't know, organic versus, you know, all of that is gone. Yeah. So it, you know, but I think what it, we didn't have, you know, we launched the brand on sort of, you know, our own savings and a little bit of investment from friends and families, but like friends and family, but very little. So we had to be sort of very creative in how we were building the brand from the start.

And, you know, there was no money to waste either as a business or personally. And I think that discipline to this day has sort of very much stuck with us. And, you know, in terms of personally, you know, food wastage and, you know, I'm sort of very grateful to be able to and I'm in the supermarket and to be able to sort of, you know, make healthy choices and, you know, buy organic food or, you know, that's, it's a, it's, you know, that's a privilege. Yeah. And I guess for that beginning bit, nothing sharpens your senses like going all in with everything like that you know you really absolutely and it was all or nothing and we had we had no choice but to make it work so we had to pedal really hard to actually to you know to give it life to sustain it to sort of fan the flames of it and you know so that um but I think I always thought you know I mean since then people who have built brands have have have told me it takes five years and that's I think you know businesses brands have their own sort of life cycles as well yeah

um I think if anyone had told me at the start that it would take five years, I would not have done it. You know, I thought perhaps it's a year. It really is. I mean, year on year it gets easier. But it's still, you know, every day brought sort of highs and lows. Yeah. And actually seeing, I remember Liberty being the first store to stock us. That's a nice place to be stocked. Which was a very nice home from home

and uh ed burstall who was the md at the time he was like you know how's the fact he's like liberty's little sister and so he you know he he took he took us in um and they started selling the brand really well because you know they had the customer was there she was you know, they had, the customer was there. She was, you know, she was already coming there. And it was just signs of encouragement. Yeah. That sort of kept us going, you know, and you just, you'd sort of hang on to that. And, you know, so it was super humbling.

I think it was very humbling on myself and Javi's, you know, relationship as well. I was going to say, yeah, I work with my husband as well. I think, you know, when you're doing all of that together, it's great because the journey is completely together and the highs you celebrate together, but when things are stressful and intense, then it's very hard to have any sort of division between,

you know, let's put that to one side and have our evening now. It doesn't really work too well. Totally. Well, I think we had to sort of put the boundaries in. I mean, I think we both, you know, we knew, you know, we're both on the same page. We're both ultimately very, you know, we're humble people. Yes, we love beauty and, you know, but our core is actually very simple and humble.

So it wasn't like one of us was you know needing I don't know any kind of extravagance or you know we were both and we were both very much you know family first so all the values um which is the foundation of everything were were very shared um it was the first time that we would we worked together um so there was a little bit of a, you know, get into bed and I'd be like, oh, I just need to sleep. And, you know, Javi from having a busy day or being on the road or that would be like, I'm just going to check all my emails.

And he'd start. I'm like, no, no, no, no. And he'd start like asking me about things. And I was like, no. So early on, it's like,'s like no you know during the working day fine fine after after hours when the kids are home you know so so we we figure that out sanity really yeah but I think you know during the kind of really tough days thankfully you know we you just you know the other person would pull the other person out of out of the kind of the the gloominess

yeah that's true you've got both of you to have had to go out on the prize of like the road ahead sort of thing we were never kind of amazingly down at the same time yeah worried so um so i think you know i feel really you know people always ask about what it's like to to work with your partner um but it's actually really worked with us because we can we can you know we can we can obviously juggle our kids and our kids are very involved in sort of even you know house of acne and our team it's all a family it's all family when you say the kids are involved what do you mean do they sort of well i mean from the start you know i mean I remember having Lila a year into the you know the brand was a year old and there was you know no maternity leave because it was like if I stop the whole thing it was like

a house of cards so you know she was just immediately strapped onto me and taken to, you know, every meeting. She was just, it was just, yeah, like lots of pictures of her, like just, you know, from those early age. Yeah, she just, you know, she came everywhere and could feed her everywhere. And it was like, this is just, this is how we roll. Yeah, that's just how it is. Yeah, so it's always um they've always been very much sort of yeah at the table you know and certain trips we we go on you know it they we we time it around their holidays and you know there's yeah it's it's where we are able to

we've been able to find a happy balance between it. Yeah, yeah. We figured it out. And I think, you know, I look at sort of people who sort of found businesses by themselves and it can be really lonely, especially in those early stages. And I think no one else really understands how hard it is. Yeah, yeah. Yes, you know, it's always nice if you have a second income

where, I don't know, if it's a female-founded business and, you know, they can, you know, you've got the husband's income or that, that's obviously a much safer position from the start. You know, we had... Yeah, there's no safety net. We didn't have that. However, you know, we're both very much in tune with kind of, you know, the other person. And there's days when one person's diary is busier than the other.

And so it's the dance of life that we're kind of doing together. And I feel lucky to have someone, you know, so supportive, you know, by my side. Absolutely. Can I ask you about something you said a while back about a new motherhood and you said you felt like your consciousness rose and I just wondered if you could talk to me a little bit more about what you mean by that yes um I mean I think when you have you know when when you have a child certainly certainly my experience was quite a big change. I mean, in terms of outlook and probably, you know, also, you know, thinking about the world, thinking about the future of the world,

sort of the, you know, our footprints, the legacy that we're leaving as humans, wanting our children to have, you know, lovely futures, you know, lives that sort of are full of sort of, you know, love and humanity and all these things. So I think for me it was yeah there was definitely a rise in consciousness about um yeah you know kind of my consumer habits um which were never kind of you know big spending ones but still I you know, working for the high street. So, um, that I, yeah, I think there was this sort of an, there's, there's definitely was quite a lot of sort of inner self-reflection. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and about, yeah, I suppose you spoke about, uh,

legacy really. Yeah. How you live your life and what you're, what you're passing on, the battle that you're passing on. Yeah. And also, you know, looking at when we set up House of Hackney, it was also an opportunity to look at what does good business look like for us? Yeah. On different levels, from culture, from a happy team, that, you know, very much sort of, you know, we have, you know, we have some amazing working mothers, you know, but it's also, you know,

being supportive of, you know, supporting our team with what their lives are outside of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's actually quite an important and actually quite a modern way of thinking about business, isn't it? Yes. Better at that kind of thing. And it doesn't, I'm not talking about people necessarily raising families,

just people who just want to have time to do their own thing and prioritise that other half of your life, not be a slave to the wage kind of a thing. Absolutely. I think, you know, we rolled out a four-day week with our team two years ago, which was quite a pioneering thing to do. And it was, you know, our team, we have this incredible team who are like super productive, you know, and it was actually about wanting to give them time back. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm very much of a belief also that, you know,

a well-rested team is more productive as well. You know, there's certainly, personally, there's only sort of probably six hours in the day where I'm sort of firing all cylinders and the rest, you know, so it isn't like that. So I think we've had an opportunity to sort of assess what's the type of business, brand, you know, company that we want to be part of.

Yeah. And thinking a little bit about, thinking outside the box about how we do it. Yeah, yeah. And there's a sort of, there's a new way of doing things as well. That's the benefit of starting your own company and growing it from the ground up, isn't it? You can really make all those decisions.

I've got loads of things I could ask you, but I'm aware of how long we've been chatting. So when you're doing your rooms, are you the sort of person where you'll finish a room and then think that's kind of done, or is it constantly evolving? Do you sort of finish it and then think, right, now actually I want to change the curtains? are you good at kind of sitting back from it yeah I mean I think

it's it's it's certainly a process um and it's something that I kind of can get like a download on an internal download on sort of what a scheme for a room um but I think you know that's sort of the you know the the color scheme the the sort of the five walls of the room that's the foundational stuff but you know what really makes a house a home is the personal stuff and the you know the the souvenirs the mementos the the this the stuff that sort of trigger you know memories and you know so it's that there's a sort of an eternal layering process the art I mean just you know love art in a room and I think that's you know yeah sort of collecting that which again is a journey in itself is is a real passion yeah um and you know bringing you know i'm i'm sort of excited by the return of people using their their hands and creativity so the you know the the revival of sort of you know pottery and painting and we are really sort of post the sort

of you know the emphasis on the digital we're seeing a real sort of human need to use our hands in in gardening and arts and everything so you know so i'm i'm interested in in yes sort of bringing bringing all that into a room whether it's a child's little scribble, you know, a little picture done by a child on a wall. Or on a piece of paper. And, you know, photos, little things that have been picked up on a holiday. I love the idea of the layering.

I mean, I think that's something that appeals to me. I can tell you do that very well. Or, you know, a little bedside flower. It's all of those things that are just, yeah, sort of bring beauty and life. And stories as well, aren't they? Stories, yeah. Yeah, I agree. It's like you look around, you have all those little things triggered. And the other thing I was thinking about is, is it true that your daughter's doll's house, Sylvania's family's house, even the Sylvania family furniture is upholstered in House of Acme? Yes.

It's actually amazing. Oh. I would love to see that. So like teeny tiny little Sylvania family furniture, but it's all in your prints. Yes. That's fantastic. It was fun to arrange.

I think, you know, the whole, I mean, you know, the kids are growing up quickly. Yeah. And so. Well, if she doesn't want it, I'll have it. I mean, I love that stuff. Yeah. No, it's quite easy to do actually.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can give you some samples. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a little guy guy little tiny little sofas no definitely um well before you go last question and i keep thinking in my head about the play dates and you rearranging furniture for your friends and i'm just wondering if you're too

old for play dates because i've definitely got some rooms upstairs that need some help if you're ever in the mood for a play date come here i'd love to have a play date with you and rearrange your phone and show them it's looking pretty good if you're ever in the mood for a play date, come here. I'd love to have a play date with you. And rearrange your phone and show them. It's looking pretty good. What are you doing this weekend? Thanks so much, Rita. Aha, so there you have it.

Lovely Frida Gormley, who I'm picturing in my head now in her castle in Cornwall and all the extraordinarily beautiful botanical prints surrounding her. And somewhere in the corner, a tiny little Sylvanian family house, also resplendent and tiny, tiny house of hackney upholstery. How the Sylvanian family lives. But how gorgeous is that? It's so, so cute. And actually, the prints are beautiful. So if you don't already know the House of Hackney stuff,

then go and feast your eyes. It's gorgeous, I tell you. Gorgeous. And so are you. So thank you so much for joining me. I think I'm about to be invaded by some more people. Yeah, one's coming now. Hi, Mickey.

I didn't have my supper. You did have supper, Mickey. I need more. You need more food? I want more. Okay, let's give you some more food. I'll sort that out. I think that's my cue to love you and leave you.

But thank you so much for coming to find me. Don't forget to put in comments the people you want me to speak to. But I don't want to reveal too much, but I can tell you that the people that were suggested in the comments on my Instagram, most of them are coming up. It was really nice. I could see names and I'm like,

oh yes, I'm talking to that person. I'm talking to that person. So well done. We're obviously on the same page, you and I. That's cool, isn't it? Anyway, I will see you next week. Episode 71. All systems go.

We're off. A new series is launched. And I'm very happy you're here with me. Lots of love and see you soon. Have a great week. Me again. I nip back on because I realised when I was telling you what I've been up to, I forgot something fairly significant probably.

I brought out a new single. That's the way my mind works. I'm sorry. I get very distracted. I've done a single called Hypnotized. And the reason I want to tell you about it is because it's been really fun to do. There's a dance routine that goes along with it. And the music video was directed by my favorite, Sophie Muller, who also did things like Murder On A Dance Floor. And I think when you look at the video, you can kind of tell that it's the same person. There's like little clever little references that she's sort of put in there. I mean, I've done loads of stuff with Sophie since Murder.

I think we worked out we've done 16 or 17 or maybe 18 videos together. But I think this one in particular kind of referenced our early days. So, you know, if you fancy having a look, you want to see me being a bit strict in some latex and teaching some people a routine, go feast your eyes. If you don't, don't worry about it.

See you next week. Bye-bye. Thank you.