Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 79: Kimberley Walsh

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

I so loved meeting up with Kimberley Walsh this month. I was signed to the same label as girls aloud when I started my solo career, so we've known each other for over 20 years. It was great to compare notes on those days, our mutual love of singing around the house, of being mums of multiple boys, and so much more.We met at Kimberley's house, just two days after the Primrose Ball, held to celebrate the life of her band mate and great friend Sarah Harding who died of breast cancer just over a year ago. While Kimberley felt emotionally drained, she was proud that the event had raised enough money to cover Sarah's doctor's research project, which had been Sarah's wish. Kimberley was honest in saying that she is still in a very painful stage of grief. She shared how Sarah's diagnosis came at the same time that Kimberley found out she was pregnant with her third son, and how she couldn't bear to share that news with Sarah for quite a while, knowing that Sarah wouldn't have a chance to become a mum herself. We also talked about Kimberley's childhood in Bradford, how her mum was so hard-working when money was extremely tight and how Kimberley credits her mum with passing on a strong work ethic to her. Her love of performing started back then too and remains a driving force in her life - she has starred in many West End musicals, was on Strictly Come Dancing the year before I was, and is currently enjoying regularly presenting Morning Live from Manchester. I loved hearing about her three boys and her stepdaughter Chloe who she adores and who's just moved in with them while on an internship in London, much to the delight of the boys, dad Justin and Kimberley,Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis Bextor, it is produced by Claire Jones and post-production is by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello darlings. And if you're listening to this on the day of publication, then happy Halloween.

We have just, well I'm in the last bit of half term. I'm speaking to you from the past. It's Thursday and Richard has been away on tour for nearly two weeks and I didn't really make any plans for half term. And so I decided just to invite, well, let the kids have as many different friends over as possible. I've sort of been running an unofficial hotel. Tonight, we've got another two kids coming for a sleepover, which will bring the grand total of people I've had since Saturday to 17. 17 different

people who have stayed the night in my house since Saturday night. It's actually been pretty fun, but also a little bit bonkers at times. And today I've been really gentle with myself because I was doing all the cooking and all that stuff. And I was like, right, today is just going to be easy route, you know, soup for lunch, that kind of thing. It's been good. And tomorrow night I'm going to see the feeling at Shepherd's Bush Empire, which I'm looking forward to because I think the tour sounds like it's been going really well. So I can't wait to see that. And then I'm getting ready for my big trip I leave to go to Australia next week for fortnight so that's quite a big deal oh we've also got a birthday next week my fourth boy Jess he will be seven on Thursday which reminds me I really must update the beginning of this podcast because I

think I still say I have children aged between 1 and 16 which is so not true anymore. I age between 3 and 18. Get it right. Anyway it's actually been a beautiful day. Again 19 degrees or something strange. I mean it's actually been really lovely but it does feel kind of different for october and um so we've been lots of playing the garden lots playing the park and oh i saw a few podcast people this week i saw like oh again a guest we've had i had saw dawno porter this week he was last week's guest she just brought her book out went to that last night well in the evening early evening came back for bedtime don't worry haven't been going out and then noisy motorbike and then at that party was also Helen Thorne I don't know if you remember we did that chat oh quite near the

beginning actually a really brilliant chat and Helen's one half of Scummy Mummies and I met some other amazing women there who I think would make great guests and this week's guest is completely lovely I mean it's actually sort of one of my favourite conversations to record because this week I spoke to, so this week's guest is Kimberly Walsh from Girls Aloud. And we've known each other sort of, you know, not super well, but enough well to always say hi and have a nice friendly chat.

But we just had a really lovely conversation and I guess it was that nice thing of having enough in common that there were lots of reference points but also there was lots of stuff I was curious to learn more about so it's a really nice chat and also Kimberly was really gorgeously open with me I think because she was in what she referred to as the emotional hangover from having had a big fundraiser for Sarah Harding two nights previously and Sarah had really sadly died cancer just over a year ago they did this amazing fundraiser where they raised all the money they intended to for medical research plus some extra which is going to go to a good cause as well so really impressive stuff but I think it brought a lot of stuff to the surface as it would

so we spoke about that we spoke about grief while you're raising young So we spoke about that. We spoke about grief while you're raising a young family. We spoke about what it's like to be in a girl band. We spoke about what you do after you've been in a girl band. Love of music. Childhood. It was a really lovely chat. And at the end, after we finished recording, I got to meet her baby. So she's got three little boys. And the elders of him is only teen tiny.'s only one and i got to meet him he's very cute oh my goodness so that was nice i'm always happy to do chats where i also get the bonus of meeting a baby and yeah really enjoyed it and so the series is kind of drawing to a close there's only one more week after this and i know i say it all the time but please have a think about

who else i should be speaking to i've already got a good list brewing and some good ones booked in. But, you know, I love hearing your suggestions. Anyway, I will leave you in the very calming presence of Kimberly and I. Because Kimberly's voice, very soothing. Really liked it. So, yeah, I think this is going to make you all nice and chilled. See you on the other side. this morning as I was walking back towards my house for them coming to you I was like this is a good day because all of the kids are where they're supposed to be which doesn't always

happen like you know maybe I might get one that says oh my tummy hurts I've got a sore head and tries to get out of school or something so when I've actually got all five like actually where they're supposed to be I guess you always have a little one at home don't you I do at the moment yeah which is actually really nice I'd feel quite redundant I think if I didn't have one at home I know I've got to stop having them because I feel like it's time um but I do always just crave that baby stage again I know it's quite addictive isn't it and it's a very visceral the baby thing that's what I always say to my friend like the thing about babies and little ones is you know the weight of them you know like the way they feel yeah the way their skin you know it's all of that it's a very physical interaction it is

and how was your weekend because you had your benefit first yeah yeah we had we had our primrose ball which has been like gosh nearly a year to be honest in preparation um it went amazingly well like on the night it just felt so amazing that we'd actually got to that point and we actually managed to raise enough money to cover the research project that her doctor was doing and which was her one kind of wish that she asked us to do before she passed away so that's amazing but we also raised a little bit extra as well for the hospital that looked after her so they're going to try and find a really lovely little project um to put that money into so amazing but it was just so kind of

emotional on so many levels I mean her mom was there so many people that worked with us throughout that intense time you know being in abandoned for like 10-15 years that family a lot of them were there and I think it just really threw everyone, like, those emotions coming back. So to be honest, it was really a night that I don't think any of us will forget. But it's incredible that we've done it. And I do think she would have absolutely loved it. She would have loved it all being about her. Everybody was laughing, saying she would have loved her name being that big.

She would have loved that picture of herself. And I'm like, she would. Yeah, hopefully she would have been proud of us I think she would be really proud and it's I'm thinking maybe that might have contributed to why you feel quite so exhausted today I think I think so a lot it's a bit of an emotional hangover yeah um but it's yeah it's good it's all positive we tried to you know turn it around as much as we could and it's, yeah, it's good. It's all positive. We tried to, you know, turn it around as much as we could and it's been really nice actually to have that focus. I'm actually a little bit worried for the next kind of year because we don't have so much to focus on,

so we have to kind of deal with it really a little bit more. But, I mean, that's grief, isn't it? You just go through these stages. It's very much the nature of grief and actually you always think what am I going to do when it's not there but then you kind of need that time when you haven't got the project yeah sometimes I think so just to let things sit and let the feelings come and go yeah but I loved the fact that you had people performing your songs oh it was that was genius it was, because we were like, we knew that other people would kind of want a bit of the essence of Girls Aloud.

And, you know, we had so many people saying, are you going to perform? And honestly, it's just too raw for us. There's just no way that we could stand up there and start singing our songs without just no desire to do that whatsoever. Yeah. And so actually Peter Lorraineraine who i know you know who's um and was really involved with the band and helped us massively to put this gala on was like well let's just get other people to do them that is so clever so we had like ollie alexander singing

the promise and call the shots and bless his heart he'd gone full choreography he's like he's an actual fan which I think is just amazing he rearranged his whole diary to do it for us bless him and so we just yeah we were loving it and Will was amazing singing Stand By You that was an emotional moment it was like you could hear a pin drop in that room I was like we put him under so much pressure as well because Chrissy Hynde was supposed to sing and then she got COVID literally we called him the day before um and then Ricky sang Love Machine Ricky Wilson and also um I Predict a Riot which was a massive song for us on tour we always did it and it just reminds me of Sarah so much. She used to love like going for it. It was her inner element. So yeah, it was, those were the real like happy little highlights of the night. And I think we needed that.

Yeah. And I suppose as well, if you've had a chapter in your life, like being part of Girls Aloud, it must be all the more poignant now that it's sort of a complete moment in time that cannot be recreated no I know exactly that is so true it does feel like that yeah it's kind of put a bit of a full stop um but I do think that night was actually really important for so many of us not just us girls you know people her, real close friends and family

that lived through that time with us. And as I said, like songwriters, people that were part of our kind of GA family, I think they all needed it to get it sort of, I don't know, just to kind of help them to move forward, I guess, a little bit. Yeah and I think good it's always really powerful as well when you get all the people in the room and feel that that purity of that love for someone and celebrate them in that way and let the feelings come and go but everybody there is just everybody's heart is that bit closer to the surface yeah it's quite powerful it was it was very powerful yeah well I think from what I saw it looked like you did an amazing job of really making it all about her and yeah positive and moving and ultimately reach well

beyond your goal yeah which is incredible which is is the cherry on the cake really yeah and I was thinking because when you were going through all that with Sarah like when it was like the you know the bit where she was really ill You must have been having your baby then as well. It was the most horrific time in some ways for me personally because shortly after I think I found out she was poorly, I got pregnant again and I almost didn't want to tell her. Yeah. Oh, God, I'm getting really emotional thinking about this, actually,

just because in reality I kind of knew she's not going to have any kids. She isn't going to be able to. And she always asks me about the boys all the time. And I didn't tell her for a while. And I knew it was weird because I was like, I should call her and tell her, a while and I knew it was weird because I was like, I should call her and tell her, like, it's amazing news. And I just worked it up and I think I just thought, oh, no, I can't, I just can't tell her at this moment.

And then Sarah being Sarah just called me up and she was like, hey, I just seen you're having another one like are you all right and I was like yeah I know oh sorry you know and I was so embarrassed of myself for not just calling her but I just couldn't bear to like give her an another moment of pain if that made sense know, just kind of telling her that. But she was just amazing. She was like, my mom's just seen a picture of you. I can't believe you're pregnant again.

And so I FaceTimed her and we had a long conversation and I felt so much better. But she was amazingly strong. Like it just blew me away because honestly in the band I don't know if I really saw the strength in the same way I saw all of her vulnerability and all of the other sides of her and I don't know if I even gave her enough credit for the strength that she did have because when it actually came to it, it was mind blowing, really. Anyway, once I'd got over that, yeah, I had the whole pregnancy,

obviously, seeing her and speaking to her a lot. And she was amazing. And she did speak to me about that, you know, about the fact she wasn't going to have kids. And we just were really honest about it. And when she came, finally came down and met the baby and spent some time with the boys she was she was actually loving it like she was and asking all these questions and I just it it completely broke me but um so so grateful that I had that time and the kids had that time like when I talk about it they know

exactly yeah and yeah they did see much more of the poorly Sarah actually just because of the timing but I mean kids just take it at face value they just were like that's the mad Sarah isn't it that you tell me about and I'm like yeah that's crazy Sarah um and having them know who she is is really important isn't it it was it really was it's so yeah it's weird because none of the girls allowed years they're not interested because it's way before their time and you know what kids are like I do if they weren't alive they're like I don't care like who cares what you did then I wasn't even here but now they get it more and they know they know like they do they understand you know what happens so yeah and I completely understand as well what you're saying about feeling like you didn't want to tell her because there's a kind of

this is such a traumatic juxtaposition when there's, you know, babies always represent the future and purity and good things, new beginnings. Yeah. And when you're dealing with something which is coming to an end, that's like the juxtaposition of that is just so painful. Yeah, it really was. And we're the exact same age. There's three days between us.

We've done every birthday together. We'd spoken about, like, you know, we'll do our 40th together. I was like, I'll just organise a big party and then you can come and she just, she didn't make it. Like, I really thought that she might. So it's really tough, but I mean, to be honest, even at the gala at the ball the other night a lot of her friends and family was because I took the baby to the funeral not to the actual service but to the

because he was a baby I was still breastfeeding I was like I can't leave I'm not gonna leave him but they were all saying like that him being there kind of saved the day a little bit for them they were like we just needed it so much like he was literally like a pass the parcel you know just giving everybody that like you say that little feeling of of hope and yeah that just warmth that a baby brings and yeah and it's life as well it's a continuation of life and that's actually I know you mean because sometimes you feel like having kids at those events feels oh no we need to just have the formality but actually the things that break it as you say like people go towards it like a beam of light like

okay give me the small person give me the baby so that I can kind of think about things that are about tomorrow it's it's a it's we need that comfort I think yeah but I'm really sorry you've been through that Kimberly and I can't really imagine because obviously you and I we've sort of you know seen each other over what must be getting on for like 20 years a long time but I'd always when we were both at Polo Door as well I'd always be thinking like what's it like if you're actually in a band I've never had that thing of being in a girl group. And what's the, what do you think is the biggest difference between me being like doing it on my own

and you being in that group? I mean, I personally, I think that it's so much, do you know what? It's easier in loads of ways to be in a group and then obviously way harder with the logistics and trying to work it out. Complicated people. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, way harder with the logistics and trying to work stuff out yeah complicated people yeah exactly

but it's like it's just deeper than just a friendship it's because of the intensity of it yeah so like you know you might not get on with as in like you might not want to spend your time with that person on that particular day but you don't have a choice it's almost like family it's like okay well this is just like a sisterhood and uh some days your sister annoys you but they're still there and it gets to the point where you can speak honestly as well like you would with a like a sibling and just be like oh do you know what please you're really annoying me today just you know let's not go there and I liked having them around all the time I really liked it but I'm from a big family so you know to me it was quite normal to have that I guess that's an advantage actually because you're

one of four aren't you so I guess you're used to that chaos and all the different personality types yeah yeah so you're used to being able to like just hang back and figure out and apparently actually kids from big families are really good at assessing emotional. They get an emotional maturity sometimes because they get good at a quick read of a situation when you walk in a room. Yeah. So you probably find that to your advantage as well. Probably do. And also there's always somebody to kind of pick up the slack as well if you are having a bad day.

Like if you're a solo artist and you've got to do 20 interviews in one day and you just just don't really feel like speaking you've got to suck it up and just get on with it for us as a group if on that particular day someone just wasn't on a good day then the rest of us are like don't worry about it we'll just you know we'll cover it and there's a there's a lot to be said for that like you've got that support basically the whole time. That sounds nice. Yeah, I always thought it looked hard to be a solo artist. And I know, obviously, Cheryl did both. And I think she kind of loved it when she came back to the group.

Yeah, because I think going from that to then on your own is a different thing as well. Yeah, that's true. You look side by side. Yeah, you feel like naked yeah yeah but I think um from the outside looking in being particularly part of a girl group it just seems like you're like very empowering and kind of like you come off stage and you've all just shared an experience that's the thing you don't really get on your own sometimes I mean obviously I have my band but everybody's got their own role whereas with that you're all sort of trying to do the same thing yeah plus choreography hello that's fun yeah

yeah it's funny actually we've been playing so much of your music this weekend because um I was playing um all of your tracks on Saturday just like when we were in the garden and it was a nice day and my three-year-old Mickey he really latched on to he loved all of it but particularly um the song something new oh really yeah and he does he's calling it his song oh i must have tried it i've literally i think we've gone into double figures we keep putting on on a loop we just set up all his little um superheroes as an audience but with a little walkway through the middle yeah and we just had to keep watching him performing to it so cute I feel like I need to see video evidence of this I might try that actually on it because I'm constantly just trying to find the next song that just gets him going because you know they say he's like he's teething at the moment he's a bit like a bear with a sore

head so once he realizes I'm not distracted anymore I'm like what else can I do right music do some dancing and I'm gonna try maybe I'll try some of our songs and what about work things what are you up to at the moment with your work stuff um so I still present on morning live which is obviously in Manchester now you know like you went tricky and started doing that when you were still really tiny yeah again it's one that's one of those things where you just don't choose when these things come about do you no and I've been really hoping and trying to get into a bit more presenting just because in general that works better around the kids and then of course the opportunity comes when he's like four months old oh yeah and I mean I feel like I'm pretty good at saying no now to things that don't really work for my family.

But I knew that it would be a really, really good thing to do for myself and to give me confidence to go on and do more presenting because I've not done it for so long. And I thought, you know, a live morning show that moves quickly like that is going to be almost like the quickest training I could ever have I should say it's kind of everything yeah yeah so obviously I said yes didn't I and um I mean I'm not gonna lie my babies don't sleep I mean I don't know if it's me or the fact that they're boys I think when you're breastfeeding it's hard but when they're like up to six months forget it I'm up every couple of hours like literally I am quite soft so it's like okay but so many of those shows I did on literally like two hours sleep I mean it was insane when I look back now I'm like I just don't even know how I did it and weirdly at the time my older sister had a baby a month different and every time she'd see me on there you know made up like morning everyone she literally messaged me that what the hell you were texting

me like it was up all night because I'm like like they're texting her in the night yeah I had about an hour what about you and then she's seeing me and she's like you're not okay I don't know how you're doing this but I think some sort of like survival mode kicked in because I kind of knew this is a really good thing. Let's just get on with it. And now I'm like, no, I don't think I could do that now. So how could I do it then? It's weird, isn't it? It's funny that I think there's a sort of strange adrenaline, though, that comes when you've got a very little baby, actually.

To get you through probably the fact that you don't have much sleep, full stop. I think so. So you get that sort of adrenalized thing of like come on just power through and then you know when you look back you're like that looks absolutely exhausting that looks like something i couldn't do now so i like that during the sister as well looking at you thinking yeah i don't even desire that yeah no she was not like wow it like, why are you wearing heels? Yeah, she's literally like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. But actually, I do. I love the show.

So I was gutted that it was moving up to Manchester. And so I started off doing like one show a week. And then that sort of started to feel a little bit too much just with other work commitments that I had so now I'm doing like every other week and do you know what they're amazing they kind of have all these like mothers filling in and so you can just be quite honest and be like you know it's a bit too much for me at the moment like I had a few other things going on for a few weeks and I said oh I'm gonna I'm gonna know, not come up for the next couple of weeks because I don't know about if you feel like this, but I kind of look at my week depending how much work I've got. And then I look at everything else that's going on, like personal stuff, stuff the kids have got.

And I just kind of know when it's going to be too much. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not one of those, might have done like five years ago, but now I'm just not willing to push the family to that point, you know, where they're like, oh, is mummy not here? You know? Yeah. I just don't want them to feel like that.

Yeah. I probably sometimes take it a bit too far. It's hard to know what's right. But I found that it makes me feel anxious and I don't enjoy the stuff I am doing because I'm just worried that there's too much else coming up that week yes I know exactly what you mean and I think that my youngest has now got to the point where he'll say are you sleeping with me tonight which means you're putting me to bed yeah and he asked me and then the other night he got in our bed um and his sleep he was going, work, work.

Oh, God. Do you have work? Oh, my God. So they know how to pull the heartstrings. I think, obviously, there are loads of working mums who do way more hours than me. But I think it's the fact that my work's irregular that leads them to constantly question, are you home tonight? And what about tomorrow night? Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah. So it's just, it's unpredictable. It is um but that's the only life we know so I've just had to sort of say yeah of course here we are here we are and and they were and that's all that they know as well and they they probably get loads more of you at other times you know yeah so I do think our job in a lot of ways is a privilege because I do feel like I don't miss that much. You know, I'm not a mum that has to leave and get to the office by nine o'clock every day. And, you know, I don't miss class assemblies. I don't really miss stuff like that. So, you know, it kind of swings and roundabouts a little bit.

It's true. But I did want to ask you about when you were doing musicals, because that's... Yeah. Now, that commitment is huge, right? That's big. Yeah. That is really big. No, it's not eight shows a week, is it?

Yeah. Eight shows a week. It's eight shows a week. So the only musicals that I've done since having children have all been short runs. Okay. So when I did Shrek, I did, like, eight months, but that was before I had children and so after

that I knew I can only ever do it when I can like really see the end of it you know just think right you can power through for three months and then so the first one I did was Elf when Bobby was like 18 months and he was a pretty good sleeper actually by then you know he was quite settled and you know Justin's amazing with them so I was like okay I can do this although I actually hated not putting him to bed every night I did I hated it that's tough isn't it I hated it I facetimed them at bath time every night while I was like getting ready um and as much as it was a nice relief because it's every night bar one it just felt a bit too much and typically he just started getting all his back teeth was poorly throughout it and it was quite hard you know when you're like you're up all night and you're then doing a show at night

and then all day you're still with a one-year-old it's like actually it's quite full-on also when you leave and you say to Justin I can't off yeah leaving like a whingy yeah have fun enjoy and they've you know they've been at work all day then they come back to that it's you know it's a real like it's a juggle isn't it so then I didn't do them for a little while um and then when I did big they were both older obviously I only had the two and they were like four well then maybe like three and a half five and a half nearly six and that felt like a whole different ball game which they still seemed like they were really young when I say it like that but actually coming from where I'd come from it it felt a lot easier doing that it felt like Justin totally had it like he knew like yeah they'll go to bed and I guess also it's a you know wonderful opportunity to do things like that like I mean I've always

wondered what it feels like to do a musical it's it's really amazing like if you want to do it you should so should I just there's no feeling for some reason for me like being on stage and in that world I don't know if it's just because I grew up doing a lot of theatre stuff that it sort of brings back all those feelings but doing big after having like another baby and not been on stage for quite a long time it did feel really amazing like I properly felt like I embraced it and enjoyed every single performance like just felt so lucky to be able to do that if when I do shows it's almost like I do that as like a treat to myself like like okay I'm gonna do something for me now just for a few months because I know I'm gonna look like enjoy it so much um and it was quite a short run again it was like two or three months

so that's enough isn't it like I'll be done before Christmas and normality sort of resumes but it's enough time to bed in with it and get really into the rhythm of what the whole show is yeah yeah I can't really imagine what it must be like to what the whole show is yeah yeah so I can't really imagine what it must be like to do the same show like that like weeks on end but then you really find that bit where it just kind of probably just hits a gear where you don't really have to think about and you can actually really enjoy it yeah because you know all your lines you know all the songs and you know what what's weird about musicals and I don't think you ever appreciate this when you watch one obviously but the show

becomes more about your backstage tracks than your one on stage so you know if you get on really well with like your wiggy or your makeup girl you all you have all these different moments that you chat to your dresser or those people while they're getting ready for your next scene and actually it's like a social life like yeah that's actually like really nice to chat to different adults and you know I've been really lucky that all the shows I've done everybody's been really lovely yeah and um you all have these yeah these tracks that you go through every night and then it just it's just fun you know what the only thing I can compare it to is actually Strictly because that's the thing I did for the... My mum always jokes it's the...

You both do that as well. What did she say? It's like the longest job I've had, like consecutive job I've had since I left school. It's full on though, isn't it, Strictly? Did you find? Very full on, yes. I didn't know it was going to be that full on.

Me neither. So I did that when my third was about 18 months. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Well, I don't know. it was just very intense very I think I thought I can dance a little bit it should be fine I think you did the year before me weren't you yeah it was 2012 yeah and I was just like yeah I did not think it was going to be this hard like I really have to I need to rehearse all day or I'm not even going to be able to get through this dance no and it's like cramming for a test but it's a test where if you don't get a grade then you actually will leave the show yeah like okay it

was like wedging bits of information into my brain it just was hard it didn't stick the way I thought it would I think it's all so new and then just when you master one dance they're like okay it's a completely different one now forget everything I just told you it's not straight legs it's bent knees it's there and you're like I loved it but again it was more that I loved Pasha he was so lovely and that was kind of the best part of the experience was learning to dance and making a friend in him because he was just such a nice guy yeah I can imagine he was a lovely teacher actually yeah and actually you you need to get on with your you know your dance teacher because it's you spend so much time together

and you have to be able to just be like your honest you as well like exactly if you're tired and stuff you can't keep up appearances for that long when you're doing it every day all day no I always think that when they you know people say about oh you know so-and-so is faking it on the show it's like you honestly you can't sustain because it's so full-on you can't you're just your real self like you can't you can't put on a pretense it's you're too knackered and raw and and also you care about it you want it to work and you can't fake the dancing it either comes together or it doesn't and I think I don't know if you found the same like if you're learning a song and you're not familiar with it if you get

fluff a bit in the verse you can pick up in the bridge and then you get to the chorus and you know that's safe again with the dance if you miss a bit here then it means you're not in the right place for that bit and it's like a dominoes. I went wrong nearly every single performance. And I'm not really that person. And I know why it is. Because I'm the kind of person that will make sure that I've rehearsed enough so that I don't go wrong. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. I'll have that work ethic and I'll just make sure. But I did not have enough time. Yeah. Because I had other stuff going on as well. So there was just always that like, oh, will she, won't she get through it? And it was just, it would sometimes be the smallest thing that I would be able to like blag, but I'd just be like, oh my God, what is wrong with me?

There's always something. I think it's nerves as well though. It's so, and nothing's quite the same as being in a rehearsal room and then suddenly finding yourself on the live show. That was hard, wasn't it? Like, you'd rehearse in the same room and you kind of knew where everything was and then you'd get in that studio

and everything would feel so different. But that has the same thing when you're saying about the people and, like, you spend the time getting your hair done or having your makeup done, getting your wardrobe sorted. That was all really nice. That was all nice. I loved all that. I clung to the people I found that I've got on with like like little rocks yeah you're a good

person yeah exactly chill me out please yeah totally just stay away from the chaos yes exactly just observe yeah absolutely I mean you mentioned work ethic is that something from when you were small because it sounds like your family were quite interested in all aspects of musicals and dance and acting and things from when you were little we all started really young it was literally my my best my mum's best friend just called my mum up and was like oh I'm gonna take the girls she had two girls similar ages to me and my older sister I'm gonna take my girls to this stage school down the road do you think your girls would be into it mom was like yeah yeah sure yeah pick them up or whatever take them and that was it was literally like after one one lesson me and my older sister were just like this is this is where we feel we belong wow all these

mornings of getting up and doing our own versions of like you know Annie and Bugs Malone and all the usuals it was like finally we actually get to do it properly and do shows and it just yeah it just went from there and then I mean we dragged my brother into it he's not ended up in the business but you know he kind of enjoyed it for a while um but then my younger sister's an actress as well so yeah it's just clearly quite in the in the blood as I'm sure it probably feels like that with your family you've been both performance you can see that it does pass on doesn't it sometimes so we did used to do a lot of a lot of rehearsing after school a lot of rehearsing at the weekends and stuff and

I think it was quite a strict school so I always really felt like you've got to really rehearse and everything's got to be perfect so maybe I took that on with me a bit into you know performing as an adult. That's not a bad trait actually that because I think that that's preparation isn't it basically? It does make a massive difference as well I do struggle with nerves um I love performing and I love the feeling that I get but I do get nervous just before you go out and then they sort of dissipate yeah usually a few like a few words even out and I'm good yeah but I hate those few first words that feel like they sound nervous and I'm like oh it's almost like when you're still outside looking in on yourself isn't it so hyper aware of everything like I'm on the stage I'm

saying my line I can hear the silence yeah yeah but then there's this bit where you just forget about it does just go doesn't it yeah um I said that like I do lots of acting I don't but I have it with singing but with singing it's the same thing with singing absolutely where you're just like okay once yeah once you've sung the first couple of words and they come out all right, then suddenly you relax, don't you? It's almost like you're distracted into the project again. You've sort of forgotten to remember you're doing it. You're just focused on doing it, which is nice.

But preparation always helps with nerves. And actually, doing the first musical theatre show, that really hit home because they rehearse you a lot. Yeah. And actually it made such a difference. I just didn't, I had such a newfound confidence because I was like, well, I'm all right because I've literally rehearsed these songs

within an inch of their life. So even if something goes a little bit wrong, I kind of know how to fix it within my body and within my voice so it shouldn't actually be too bad what you know even if I'm struggling on that day or I've I had all these ways to to just switch it up a bit and still make it work it was really good so it gave me a lot more confidence that sounds great yeah I've never had any training of like vocal training until then. Yeah.

I was 30 years old when I did my first show and they were like, you've never had any? I'm like, no, I don't really work like that up north. It's a bit like just get on with it. If you can sing, like, you know, go for it. But I really appreciated it and I could have benefited massively from doing it earlier. But hey-ho.

But you mentioned like where you grew up. So what was your childhood like? What's growing up in Bradford like? So my mum and dad split up when I was really young. So most of my childhood was just with my mum and the four of us. I mean, my dad was around but living with just my mum. And she worked so hard, bless her. You know, money was hot, light was tight.

And then obviously she kept having kids just a bit like me. And suddenly, obviously the strains even more. But we had a really happy home because there were so many of us. I feel like that made our childhood. So I wouldn't have had it any other way, obviously. But yeah, she was a teacher. But then she would do like piano lessons for people on the on the estate for extra money she would like make all her all of our clothes herself

like I mean it's a different life to what I've known like I I can moan about parenthood like anybody can but whenever I think about what her reality was I'm like no I can't because it's a whole different ball game um but speaking of like work ethic I think that really helped me as well because I saw that in her I saw that day in day in day out she just didn't stop and she did whatever it took to make sure that we had everything that we needed and sometimes we didn't but I knew that she'd tried so it was like that is what it is you know um she sounds amazing she is she is she is I know we'd hear don't break my heart now as a mum and knowing I don't know about you but when my kids finally

all go to bed I just want to sit with a glass of wine and just like forget about anything for an hour like watch some mindless tv and then have a little chat with Justin and then I'm like I'm going to go to bed and then I'll feel human tomorrow and I'd hear like the sewing machine going like when I was in bed like that because she didn't even have any time to do it. Do you know what I mean? And then me and my sister, because we were so like excited by the fact she could make stuff, we'd be like, can you make us this puffball skirt for our disco at the weekend? And we want a gold headband to go with it.

And she'd be like, yeah, sure. And I'm thinking, God, she must have been thinking, yeah, that's really what I need to be doing right now. But she did it. She was amazing. Because also it kept her part of your adventures. Yeah. Part of your plans. And she knew that we appreciated it so much, you know.

Yeah. But she knows now. I mean, she knows now. I say it to her so regularly. And she's like, oh, it was all right. It was different then. Like, she's like, it was all right it was different then like she's like things are easier everyone live closer she always tries to like justify it it wasn't that bad like but I'm like it seems it when I look back yeah but yeah the work ethic helped me a lot and as

soon as I could start working doing like jobs to pay for my own stuff I really like took that baton on and took that pressure off her yeah yeah well that's really special as well isn't it and it sounds like you're really close which is lovely yeah we are yeah I do think that comes sometimes from having a single parent family that you cling to each other because people do say to me god you're so close like we're all kind of friends and we've all got different relationships between the four of us but it's like yeah we actually really do enjoy spending time with each other yeah yeah well i guess as well if you're a single parent family your mum had to be probably quite good at delegating giving you extra responsibilities yeah independence a little bit quicker for sure exactly but what do

you what do you think is similar with how you're raising your boys to your childhood are you not with the sewing machine by no they you not with the sewing machine by no they're not in the sewing machine although I do do a lot of like practical stuff like that you know I like them to see that like I do a lot of decorating a lot of you know upcycling and stuff and Justin does you know all of the kind of handy man stuff around the house like we they don't see people doing much for us, you know, like we do everything ourself.

And they love that. Take your pictures off the wall. Is, is Justin doing the one most of the hanging? And is it only one nail behind? Because well, Richard, if I take anything off the wall that he's had to go at,

there'll be like three attempts. Do you know what? In fairness to him, mirrors are a nightmare. So they do sometimes go wrong. I wouldn't be sure that we couldn't move some mirrors and be like, oh, didn't quite work. So maybe give Quim some slack.

Even people that really know what they're doing can mess those things up. So little jobs as well like that. Like hanging stuff's tricky. Sometimes it's like the smallest things, isn't it? But like the kids get involved with like things like decorating and like Bobby would be able to name every single power tool that justin's got like so into it that's cool um is that what justin does now he does property stuff yeah so he does a lot of renovations and then you know we've got a company together and he manages the rentals that we've got and so he's constantly doing repairing and then

constantly doing it in our own house as well but it's fine yeah but in terms of like the similarities of of my kind of family with my kids and how it was for me like the you know the financial aspect and not having any like financial worries is such a massive thing it it's you can't compare it in a way like I sometimes look at my kids and I'm like oh my god you just don't you have no idea and I do say that to them and I know that they're looking at me like no we don't um like they drove past my house that I lived in that I grew up in my whole life I was like come and see where I used to live when I lived with nanny up in Bradford and they looked at me like oh poor you and I was like well it's fine it's like a normal house but you know like they couldn't they were like is that is that the garden like you grew up

with and I'm like yeah and I'm like look guys I'm constantly kind of trying to like make sure that they've got some sort of grasp on reality. Like I feel like they have. But it is hard. Kids only know what they know, don't they? Yeah, I was going to say that. They get born into whatever they get born into. I feel really grateful, actually, that I don't have to put any of those pressures onto them because it wasn't my mum's fault, but we were very aware of all of that stress. We knew we didn't have enough money. You know, we knew all of those things and it's not her fault. It would have been impossible for her to try and pretend everything was fine

when she's on her own with four kids. Like, no one would expect that. But I'm glad that they don't have those worries. But the little ways that I can try to find to ground them I do you know yeah I can then do stuff themselves or just I don't know it's hard sometimes isn't it I think that's actually like one of the single but biggest differences you can do in that way and we have the same thing in terms of like making sure the kids understand it but also not giving them to a sort of reverse burden

of like you better be grateful for everything because not everybody has that because that can actually backfire a little bit and make them feel like really uncomfortable you know about about how to handle money things or I don't know I think it's just hard to get a good grasp of money full and especially now that you don't even have pounds and pence to show for things that they can't save in the same way that we would have done no and that's a slightly different conversation but i'm just kind of it's things i think about because yeah it's hard yeah and like your kids are obviously their their age is a spread so you you're in different stages aren't you with like your older ones that's quite a you know they're probably going out and spending their

own money now like they're old enough to do yeah and it's exactly just like trying to teach them I suppose um I guess it's like trying to teach them the value of money I think the one thing that I would feel like I'd really failed was if I felt like they they treated things like it was just yeah nothing yeah that can't bear that and like every everything that you have has been made by somebody and you know you know somebody's work to pay for it like it's not you know and and also you don't need all loads of stuff yeah I don't want them to feel like I need to get this like I need to have this it's like you actually don actually don't. Yeah, I know. I did actually read someone saying something like they talked to their kids about how everybody's money has,

you know, someone's had to work to get that money. So you have to really respect money and what they choose to spend it on and how, you know, if you've been given something, the value of the work that's gone into that. I thought that was quite a nice idea. Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. I'm trying that now.

Every week, a new technique. Yeah, exactly. a good way to think about it. I'm trying that now. Yeah. Every week a new technique. Yeah, exactly. Depending on something I've just read on the internet. Yeah. That's true though. I think you and Justin must have met around the time that I met Richard actually. Oh really? Yeah, so like 2002 I think I met Richard.

It would have been because it was literally like not that long after I got in the band. So it was probably like the end of 2002. So was he signed to Polydor as well at that time? Yeah. Isn't that funny? So we're all part of the same Polydor family. Yeah, it was so funny because we just were booked on all the same things, obviously, because we were all on the same label. And I was dating somebody else when I first got in the band and then I mean there was you

know I was kind of obviously finding the the distance thing quite hard and stuff but then Justin just was just always there and you know you just can't fight something and it got to the point where I was like okay I'm gonna end I have to end the relationship I'm in because I'm way too interested in seeing when this guy's gonna be at the next gig and then after that we just we started talking and it just went from there we just got on so well and I do always find it so strange when you just meet some somebody randomly like that that had a totally different upbringing to you yeah Bristol and um and then you just click like that it's weird isn't it that is because I I didn't realize until recently so he was from

Tipperary is that right so his his mum yeah they were from Tipperary in Ireland Jess's any excuse to say it quite frankly Tipperary it's just an amazing place to have come from. Yeah, and his dad's Jamaican, so his mum, his grandma, you know, his mum's mum moved over from Ireland to Wales and then his mum met his dad because he'd come from Jamaica to Wales, so they met there and then they ended up just moving out of Wales and settling in Bristol. Wow. So, yeah.

It's, yeah. Yeah. He's half Irish. He keeps telling me about it. And also, I didn't realise until recently that he had, oh, he was a dad from when he was 16. He was a dad from when he was 16. His daughter, Chloe, has actually just moved in with us.

She's not lived with us before. Really? But she's 24. She moved in this weekend because she's doing an internship in town um so the boys are actually gonna get to live with their big sis for a while and they're so happy they're so annoyed that she has to leave so early for work but get home so late I'm like at least she's going to be here every day yeah but when I met him she was like five um I mean he was so so young like it it's obviously was was tough and shaped who he is as a as a person massively but one of the things that I loved about him so much despite the fact that I kind of was obviously slightly worried of the things that I loved about him so much, despite the fact that I kind of was obviously slightly worried of the challenges that might bring him having a little girl, the way he, like, put her first actually really made me think

he's actually, he's a really good guy. Like, I already know he's going to be a good dad because I'm getting to see it firsthand. I mean, and she's so much older that it's kind of like me and her just like friends and yeah that's very different I had any stepmom dynamic yeah although she grew up obviously coming to girls allowed concerts with her friends and stuff like she has grown up through everything she's just the most lovely girl I can, it's just been so easy because she's so gorgeous. That's lovely.

And I think I just got really, really lucky. And hopefully she feels the same. I'm sure she does. You know, that we've just kind of, we struck a good relationship and just knew kind of what that should be. And it's just always been so fine. That's lovely. But also she's moving in now. That's so magical, isn't it? I know. What a nice thing. And as you so fine that's lovely but also she's moving in now that's so magical isn't it what a nice thing and as you say she's so much she's a complete

adult so she's a total yeah she's an actual adult so probably justin will feel quite redundant because we'll be wanting to watch all the same things together and we'll be up here and he'll be downstairs watching whatever he wants to watch but he's I think he's fine with it he's obviously gonna be so happy to have them all yeah roof um it is quite an amazing thing because just recently Cole started saying can I have a little sister and I'm like yeah not that question my sister's got four boys I've got three so we all really get this question a lot yeah and I'm like Cole you've already got a sister and that's this question a lot yeah and I'm like Carly you've already got a sister and that's great that I can say that I'm like she's moving in she's a big sister that's fine I'm yeah I'm not I'm not gonna have any more so that's the way it is I'm afraid and he's like

okay yeah I think it's softened it a bit that she's moving in with us I'm quite impressed you can be quite definite about no more as well because I think my kids would probably have found like my second one down is always asking me to have another one and then he's like I'm quite impressed you can be quite definite about no more as well because I think my kids would probably have found like my second one down is always asking me to have another one and then he's like I'm like I think I'm a bit old and you'll go can you at least try oh really yeah well do you know what it's I can know what you're saying and I don't know whether it's just where I'm at now that I just feel quite sure because it's been it's hard isn't it having a baby and I'm like loving every minute of it because I think it's my last, if that makes sense.

I'm like, I can do this because it's the last time. I think what it is for me really is my age and, you know, some, like, health issues that I had as well with the last pregnancy would make the next one quite hard. So that's helped me a little bit. But also I would be that person that would just keep keep going like I just always crave the baby thing I know I will so if I don't draw a line under it I probably will just carry on um but I think that the older ones are just craving more

attention from me and I'm like do you know what I think maybe this is a good number yeah obviously we've got Chloe as well so I feel like it's it's nice to see them watch the baby grow up I'm kind of excited for when almost like where you are now where your youngest is three and then from then onwards you can kind of all do things a bit easier not be so separate yeah well that's when we had um mickey i remember saying to richard do you think i remember when he was like i think it's time to watch them grow up now i'm like oh yeah i think that's quite a nice way to put it really like yeah okay maybe it's just time to watch them grow up i mean i do like i do think it's amazing that you've got five and i would absolutely love that chaos are you sure yeah no i i would like and i do like when i have it anyway three

years loads three years a lot and like when i see my sister with her four boys and they're all just so different it's just amazing to me that you can just keep making them and they're all different i think that's the thing different personalities i don't know about whether you get this because i think sometimes moments of boys get like this generalization that they assume that all boys just run around like rugby players all day long. And I'm like, oh, not really. Like mine are very sensitive and they have those moments. But like if I look at my sister's four boys, they're so, so different. Like one's really quiet and artistic, just wants to draw all day long.

You know, like you can't, you basically can't generalize any child um they all just have amazing qualities and I just I get excited at the thought of what else I could produce like what's the next one gonna be like but then I'm like let's yeah let's just try and just chill and like you say watch them watch them grow up yeah no I think you're right and there's definitely that generalization and I always I always sort of push back on it as well because I'm like no they're all really different and sometimes they do art or read people sort of think they're just like busy like destroying that absolutely like my my oldest nephew like he's constantly reading because my sister was a bookworm you know watching cooking

programs with her she's like I'm happy I've got you know I've got everything covered yeah and when you were talking about work and you said that you go to work for a treat so how are you making sure you've got enough of that in your life I suppose now you still got a very little one but yeah um I think it's quite a good balance at the moment actually I'm a bit like if I do like two maybe, I say days a week, but those days might not even be a full day, like maybe a half day or whatever. That kind of feels like quite a nice balance at the moment. Although I'm a little bit worried that I'm almost spending

so much time with Nate or it's usually between me and Justin so he's getting us, that he's getting really attached to us. And I don't know how I'm ever going to, like, get him into nursery and stuff. No, he'll be fine. Because he's our last. We're just kind of, like, both really enjoying just being able to kind of juggle it between us.

He's not had much outside childcare. Yeah, but then we had lockdown with my little one being small, and then he just, he's gone off. Is he fine? Yeah. I think they're always, I think if they come from feeling feeling safe they can go and do their own thing yeah it's just like letting them know isn't it that I'm gonna come back and you're gonna be fine exactly once they kind of realize that they're usually okay aren't they um but no I do I do like working I do I think I just

if I'm not working then I'm here just busying myself and driving myself mad tidying things out or something you know like I just I'm not very good at like sitting still no me neither it's hard isn't it when you're about music though because I know that you love music so much and in your yeah it says every singer I sing all the time you know I don't know whether you're that kind of singer I feel like there's there's two types some just like to sing on stage and then some just like to sing and I sing all over the place yeah I'm just that person I mean my kids just don't even bother telling me to shut up anymore I spent my whole childhood with my brother and sisters shut up and I'm just

like it just brings me so much joy but I'm all right doing it in the house as well oh my god me too no ditto and actually I wish my second one down is the one who said he literally said to me the other day can you not sing not next to people who don't want to hear you singing so I had to walk like behind him but or you can turn everything into a song or make up silly songs about yeah yeah and mine and mine have really taken that on like they sing stuff to me all the time I just don't want to go to school today they start doing a whole song about it and I'm like oh really are my children aren't you I love there's such little characters I mean I love seeing them like expressing themselves like that

like Bobby started singing with this like really random tone of voice and I was like oh that's different what's that and he was like

just trying to make it sound more dramatic and he'd like totally changed his singing voice that's great and also I think singing about things

like not wanting to go to school is quite a good way to diffuse tension as well isn't it yeah but you're gonna go to school

it's the only rule i just keep going it's so true um that is basically our our warnings yeah um it's a good way of it's music solves a lot actually it really does mood wise my kids have always gone towards music and dancing to keep them occupied and And they've got, they love dancing. They can't help themselves. Yeah, no, exactly the same. But it's really good for the soul. I always say to people that singing is actually like a bit like my therapy.

You know, I'm not really big on doing a lot for myself, like self-care wise and stuff but actually singing really helps me and I think I'm happier when I am performing like if I'm doing a show I think I've got like a bit of a general spring in my step because I'm doing that every night yeah yeah but yeah it's a really healthy outlet and it's it keeps you I think there's a certain thing that happens when you're singing that can just sort of elevate everything yeah it's really lovely lovely feeling. It's like complete.

Sometimes I've done gigs where I'm not. Maybe it's like if I do something like a corporate thing. Yeah. And I think, oh, the mood here. And I think, you know what? I'll just sing because I just, it's lovely just to sing. Yeah. And then I just try and enjoy.

What you're doing. Yeah, just the act of it. And then I kind of lose myself in it a bit. And it's nice. Yeah. I like that feeling. But it's funny when you say about the kids interpreting things different ways my fourth one Jesse he's got into dancing in a slightly raunchy way like he uses his hips a lot oh yeah and nanny Claire our old nanny who is my

our kid's nanny for the first 11 years so she's like family she's come to stay with us for weekend she said what's he been watching that he dances like that and I said magic mic and she went what's that I said it's a film about strippers and she was like I can't believe you let him watch it and I'm like I don't really I was joking I'm clearly not watching magic mike no but it's funny you say that because bobby's the same it's like really full on yes and I'm like I just don't I think it's within them like they just have that rhythm and they know how to use it. And then you're like, I don't really know if I should make a thing of this or just let him get on with it. But he's literally up to the baby, giving it full on.

And I'm like, this is really weird, but I don't want to make it a thing. I'm so the same. Honestly, it's exactly the same. But then I think you're right about being in them because then Mickey would try and copy Jess and it's not the same and I'm like you've either just yeah your hips move like that absolutely Coles will never move the same as Bobby's Bobby's like he's on a different level yeah and so now I'm just like oh yeah you're such a good dancer let's just keep on that but he just when I see what can physically come naturally come out of them I'm like god help me when it

gets to the age of girls and stuff I'm like oh I've uh I've got my work cut out with that one that's for sure oh and I think that sounds great it sounds like good parenting to me and um and also you've just had a weekend using music to celebrate things with you know the primary but it's like it's such a magical thing music and dance like it just evokes so many emotions you know it does I always use music like sometimes you need you almost sometimes even like you know with the the grieving process obviously with Sarah like I've actually put songs on that that I know are gonna actually let me get some of it out you know that I know they are gonna make me sad but I feel like I need that yes sometimes you just have to yeah it's like when

you're going through heartbreak or whatever it's you know well for me it was quite a long time ago the last time I went through that but when you seek out all the saddest songs that are just gonna make you pour your heart out but But actually, you need to do that. Yeah, and it's like the songs are speaking to you. Yeah. Like, wow, how have they got it so accurate about how I'm feeling? I know, but then you look back now and you're like, oh, really, is that what I was using to get through it?

But you use whatever you have to at the time. Definitely. And it can equally just, like, pick your mood up in seconds, can't it? Yeah, yeah. And I have to say as well, listening to your entire back catalogue over the weekend, you've got some brilliant songs in there, bloody hell. I haven't listened to many of them for a while, actually. I think the time will probably come.

That might be one of the harder things to go back to. Yeah, maybe. But it's brilliant and it's full of joy and vitality. There's like so much bounce in there. Yeah, they're a lot of personality as well yeah yeah well thank you so much for your time it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you my tea is just about still warm oh really yeah enjoy so lovely chatting to you thank you thanks we've got to get our little hip swinging lads together i can i think so imagine she'd get them all together just let them go crazy yeah yeah they'd love it i absolutely

would see what i mean about being calm and relaxing and uh it was a really just a really lovely chat so thank you to her it was a real privilege for her to be so open with me about everything that she's experienced especially losing a friend like that um i'm sure we've all had a bit where we've lost a significant personal life and then yeah it's just knocks you for six that kind of grief doesn't it anywho uh what else have I got going on? I'm actually clutching, as I talked to you,

a really gorgeous... I've just bought a present for a friend of mine for her birthday and I found an amazing copy of ABBA's Greatest Hits. It's a really good cover. It's in really good condition. Old vinyl. Do I give it to them or do I keep it? Message on a postcard.

And I'm also holding some massive flowers. I bought some hydrangeas i love them and they last a really long time so who knows they might still be looking fresh when i came back from australia because they kind of dry out don't they and i've also been finishing off a live album done an album from live in the palladium and actually i said to the chap who's done the artwork a guy called luke insects i said to him i want the album vinyl of the album to look a bit like a really cool album you'd find in the charity shop which is of course what will eventually

happen to all my music some sooner than others but i'm really pleased with the artwork he did a great job and it sounds wicked actually um i'm really pleased with how it's turned out so i've included all the covers i did on tour. And then, most excitingly probably, is I've just finished, I've literally just finished my album. That's my new album that's taken the longest of any of my records. But you know, we did have the global pandemic for a couple of years of songwriting. So it's really nearly done and I'm super, super happy with it. And that's going to be coming out in spring. So you know, it's nice. I'm so'm super, super happy with it. And that's going to be coming out in spring. So, you know, it's nice.

I'm so excited to have some new beginnings, actually. It's been a long time since I finished a record and I really needed it. Anyway, that's me. So if you're up to it for Halloween, have a good one. I'm going to be trick-or-treating with the Smalls and probably trying to convince them that whatever they said they wanted to be dressed up as is what we're still going to dress up as because they always have a last minute but i actually wanted to be something else uh yeah i think we're in good shape go trick-or-treating and all that and then

have a birthday in the house all right i should probably look where i'm going i'm talking to you on cross on the road anyway lots of love see you. Yeah, see you next week. Bye-bye. Thank you.