Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 88: Jessie Ware

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

I met up with singer and broadcaster Jessie Ware at her home in South London, on the very day her new single 'Pearls' was released. She told me how she'd had to miss the school run that morning to record a TikTok of herself listening to the first play of the single, while dancing in her kitchen. What a strange job we have! We also talked about how funny it is when your two worlds of music and motherhood collide: like when one of Jessie's mum-friends did a double take when she saw her at a children's party, as she'd just seen a billboard of Jessie's face in Queens Road Peckham advertising the new single!Jessie and I have lots in common, one thing being that we both had three children in our 30s while making and releasing music. We compared notes on the times when motherhood didn't fit in with the music industry. We also confessed to some of the things we love about being on tour....watching box sets in the day; being offered cups of tea, and even the odd massage! Basically being completely looked after!We also talked about Jessie's incredibly popular podcast, Table Manners, which she makes with her mum Lennie, in which a celebrity guest pops round for a meal cooked for them by Lennie, and they eat together and chat. We talked about how I had fared as a guest, at a fairly raucous live version of the podcast last year. It was fun, energetic and quite cheeky - not a bad description of Jessie herself, as you will hear from our chat! Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello darlings. I have to be relatively quick here. It's one of those days where I just don't seem to get away in the nicest way. I don't seem to get away from my children.

I'm currently hiding in Mickey's room. Sometimes it's like I've got a massive magnet in my pocket and the kids just follow the magnet. So how are you? Hope you had a good week. I've had a really exciting week actually. It's been really nice. There's quite a lot riding on it because I did this session for Radio 2 called the Piano Room Sessions. And lots of other amazing artists have been doing it all throughout the month of February. And I just didn't want to be the crap one at the end. And I also wanted to really enjoy it. But also I was doing my new single, which is called Breaking the Circle. I was singing that for the first time live.

And I was also doing a cover of Madonna's song Open Your Heart so I wanted to kind of nail that and hang on a minute yeah all right darling that's sweet of you thank you that's my seven-year-old trying to wake up my 18 year old and him going mommy I just told Sonny he can have a little bit more rest which given that it's quarter to 12 on Sunday is quite something. Anyway, the performance for the piano room is at Maida Vale and it was with a live full BBC concert orchestra who sound phenomenal and all my band. And I had Ed Harcourt, my friend Ed, join me on piano, and he's the guy I've written my third album with. And so it was all very, very special and very familial as well.

My brother Jack was playing drums, my husband's on bass, Ed's wife Geeta is doing BVs, and Ed's sister-in-law and Geeta's sister Amy had done all the string arrangement, the orchestral arrangement. That's quite a lot to get your head around, isn't it? Plus it was with Ken Bruce on Ken Bruce's show live on his radio show and he was very lovely so anyway it went really well and I was I just found that like such a high that like lasted me for a good sort of 48 hours of just feeling really great about the fact that it'd gone well and I'd enjoyed it so much so that was really nice i also also do i recorded a couple more podcast interviews for you and they also participated in a podcast for care international um because i've worked with

them before uh the woman who i think she's director so helen pankhurst and yes she is of the family lineage of the famous pankhurst emelineeline Sylvia, founder of the Suffragettes, of course, Emmeline. So we spoke to women around the world who've been facing challenges and how they've dealt with it in their local communities, and that was incredible. I'll let you know when that comes out, actually, because it was a really good podcast to do, speaking to these incredible people.

Anyways, that's been my week week and now I find myself it's Sunday and tomorrow I'll go away on tour I leave tomorrow night to go to Europe and I'm away for 10 days actually so quite a long one I haven't even started packing I haven't done anything I'm going to do it tomorrow when the kids are at school but it's quite serendipitous in terms of the timing that I have that on my mind because actually I spoke for this week's podcast, I spoke to Jessie Ware. And she and I spoke a lot about that thing when you go away on tour and you're kind of in that tour bubble and how you get quite indulged. You don't really have to think about very much apart from the gigs in the evening

versus family life when your time for yourself tends to diminish drastically and um yeah I'm actually I think after speaking to her it's made me feel even more excited about going away because I don't always being away you know feeling guilty and worrying about everything I actually want to really enjoy I'm going to be able to sleep in guys uh I can't wait I'm still really good at that I'm going to get so much sleep it's going to be sick and I'm also gonna just have lots of that time where I go off by myself during the day wandering around foreign cities I've got Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam Cologneologne, Hamburg, Berlin, Warsaw. These are all the places I shall be visiting.

And I'm going to enjoy it. It's going to be lovely. And I can't wait to see everybody on the tour. Anyway, it was lovely to speak to Jessie for this week's podcast. We've been synchronising diaries for a while because obviously she does the same sort of silly job as me. So we found it sometimes quite tricky to find a time but it was all good went into her house we've met a few times now and i've been on her podcast too and we've got mutual friends in

common and she's just really lovely lots of talent uh lots of generosity of spirit nicely cheeky good fun so yeah i will, I will leave you with Jessie and I. And look at this. Silence. I'm just going to let that sit for a minute. No one's calling out for me. Beautiful. See you in a minute.

Thank you very much for having us over. Thank you for schlepping and getting off at the wrong train station, which always buggers people up. Many of my loved ones have done this. Gone to New Cross instead of New Cross Gay, and it's a schlep. It was a lovely run. Yeah, along the main road. Yeah, really, it's beautiful as well. Just that slightly sweaty run you do when you've got a bobble hat on

and you're glancing at your public jacket. You're like... I was quite pleased I you're like oh my and your puffer jacket you're like I was quite pleased I shaved 11 minutes off my predicted arrival time so I felt quite good about it

you were quite good at running though I was flipping nimble this morning Jessie I really went for it oh man thank you well you don't need to get on the peloton

or do you know no I've done it I'm all about talking to you then relaxing and I have to say I'm a little bit disappointed

because I heard a rumour you're messy and you're not messy at all. Your house is really tidy. What's going on? I am really messy and there's a reason why it's really tidy. I just have a really amazing new nanny

who is like obsessively clean and I am not complaining. I'm very messy as well by the way and I've experimented with tidying and I've realised it makes me feel worse. I actually don't like it. I don't like it if my bedside table is free of books and stuff. I agree with you.

I like it. We're not Kathy Bates in misery. We're creatives. Exactly. Messy creatives. So when I was... We've met a few times, but when I was reading up more and more about you,

I realised... Oh, there's another one. Lovely. Sorry. Thankfully. Oh, that was another one. Lovely. Sorry. Sorry about it. Thankfully. Thank you. Oh, that was so nice and politely sorted.

We have quite a lot in common. So before I sort of freak you out with the level of detail, don't you, start with a really nice thing. We both have had our first single from our new albums played on radio this week. So my first song was played yesterday. Congrats.

And same to you, because you had it today. Yeah, like about an hour ago. I know, and I've heard it, and it's brilliant. Thank you. This is the song Pearls from your new record. So tell me everything. How are you feeling about it? What's this bit like for you before you release it?

It's that funny thing, isn't it, that I was just kind of complaining to you about, where you're like, it was a new song, which I've been waiting and waiting and waiting to put out, but it was also the announcement of the record as well and all those blooming pre-order links and stuff and you get the thing where you're like, oh, people are liking the song.

Oh, oh, the pre-order link is not working. Oh, management, what are we going to do? And then it's like, it's just, it's so silly, all the kind of logistics and it takes a village to get a song out you realize yes um but yeah it's really exciting it feels kind of like i can i don't know if you felt like this yesterday you can sit back um not that i was nervous about what people thought because i'm really proud of the song but there's like that release that you're like okay let's celebrate like we just did put another

record we survived another year as women in music. Very true. And it's that lovely feeling of like, okay, now I'm ready to introduce it to the world. But then I always get as well a slight apprehension because I like the bit just before I release it. Like maybe the day before. Yeah.

I'm very excited. Like Christmas Eve. Yes. Very excited. But I haven't also got like what people think about stuff. And so I've got that kind of nice, like, little protective bubble. Oh, yeah. I quite enjoy that.

Yeah. And also, I don't necessarily want to know the end of the story, like, i.e. how it went. I'm a massive optimist, so in my head it's always like, it's gone amazing until I release stuff. And then it's like, then the reality sort of sets in. Do you look at, kind of, reviews or comments? I don't go too heavy with all that. I don't know. Reviews, no, turn not to. Me neither. I think I used to when I started I think I read everything and then you have to pretend you don't

you have to pretend that you're not reaching any of that stuff but yes and then now I take I'm a lot more settled in myself and what I'm up to but I think it's just that feeling of like yeah letting a bit of daylight in on something that's a little bit magical and you've been quite protective of it. But that being said, I get excited. And then there's always the bit where I think, oh, this means, because obviously when you're songwriting, you can be quite predictable in your days and your weeks and what you're up to.

I love that bit. Me too. Because then there's the bit where you know you've got to go out and about and do a promo. I'm dreading that bit. Well, I think it's hard when you've got little children yeah because the other thing we have in common is we both have had three babies in our 30s while we're also making music and releasing things so it it's a lot to get on with I think it's also that thing of it was really funny so they did like a couple of, a few billboards around London before the album was announced.

And it was like a kid's school, a school kids party on a Sunday. And I said to one of the mums, yeah, I've got new music coming out. Because they know what I do. And she went, hang on, I've just seen your face on the billboard by Queens Row Peckham.

I went, really? Is it out? She went, oh yeah it out she went oh yeah it's just like it's kind of that weird thing where you go from being pop star and this silly kind of fun glamour dress up to then being like being mum which i adore but it's that i'm finding that juggle and kind of wearing two different hats and being able to i found it really hard when i came back from tour in november till i was so excited to see the kids and they leave they come out and seen me like two weeks prior to me coming back so i'd been away for six weeks i'd managed to get them to come for two weeks so we had two weeks on either side or two and a half weeks on either side

which is quite long and not particularly nice but I was having a lovely time but I missed them and I was so ready to come and see them and they were so ready to see me my eldest was really struggling with me being away and I came back and it was like right, yeah, let's go

let's be mum now, of course like no more people carrying my bags, opening doors for me, asking if I need tea, asking if I need a massage, asking, you know, all of that very lovely stuff that comes with kind of the stuff of touring. Yeah. But I found by the end of the year I was just like, I kind of was incredibly confused which, and this sounds really bad, but like, which I not preferred to wear because of course I'm, being a mother is the greatest honour.

But I was finding it quite challenging after being completely looked after. And I hated myself for finding it challenging because of course parenting is challenging. But it's also amazing and I'm lucky to do it. But the guilt that came with that, the guilt when I was away, I felt guilty. And then when I came back, I was like, oh, I'm kind of missing tour. It's a bugger. When you're on tour, you can basically revert

to being a teenager pretty much. Someone will just basically take care of everything. And you can go out and like go to sleep past 12 and then wake up and do the school run and actually I like doing the school run actually but yeah you could become a teenager or like a student at like uni where you're

like watching box sets in the day because you can yeah and you've got like a gig at like 12 o'clock at night or something I don't know it's really bad isn't it no I think I think Yeah, and you've got like a gig at like 12 o'clock at night or something. I don't know. It's really bad, isn't it? No, I think I used to feel probably worse about that before we had the two years, which everybody's a bit bored of talking about, but that bit where I realised that actually all those bits in between the work

and the home were really important for my head. So now when I go on tour I'm better at saying, giving myself permission to sleep in and rest and focus on the gig. I think when I'm away people quite often say, oh have you brought all the kids? Even though, well you know if you're like miles away it's like that was very impractical. You know all the extra flights, the extra space the child care everything I'm like no but the very fact that they that it's been asked of me I feel immediately like is there are there people that would have done that then have I made a bad

decision I know it's um if we were at the level it was funny there was a really nice person I probably shouldn't say who it was that I met when I was in Buenos Aires, and she was so sweet. And I was saying that I was missing my kids. Boring, at like a cocktail party. But woe is me, tiny violence. And she went, babe, next time just bring the home tutor and bring them. And I was like, babe, what planet are you on? I can't afford a bloody,

five flights to bloody Buenos Aires. I can't afford another tour bus. I can't afford a home tutor. What are you talking about? So I think people just... It's well-meaning. It's so well-meaning. And it's financially impossible.

Yeah. Yeah. yeah i mean we've really buggered it by you know the fact that we've got more than um two even like our car situation sam always said once you have three or more it's like a different car it's a different amount of hotel rooms yeah um and yeah it's true yeah we've made it quite expensive and i wonder as well if you'll look back because i think because yours are little so you've got two at primary well what one one at primary one at preschool is about to start primary the same age as my youngest yeah pretty much and then a little one so how old's your smallest he's 18 months 18 months that's still very little and i think do you think you'll look back on this period of your life and just feel like, whoa, there was a lot going on?

Yeah, and I worry that I will again feel guilty about the fact that maybe I didn't. You know, I can feel the baby slipping away in the sense of he's a big boy now. He thinks he's a big boy. He's talking. He's trying to roll with the older ones. And I believe it's probably my last baby.

And so in some respect, I'm trying to cling on to him being there. I guess that's what happens with the youngest, right? Yes. You treat them like the baby. Yeah. I mean, he's called the baby. Yeah. And yeah, I worry I'll be full of regret that it was too

much work but then also I hope it's inspiring to them that they saw that I was here and you know I do feel and I don't know about you yeah we have these really concentrated periods of when we're away or when we're promoting a record that's why i was talking about all this because we were talking about promo and how it changes from but there but there's the majority of the time unless i'm about to have a like international like hit or something and everyone's going to want me to tour in every continent doubtful but that may be quite nice um uh it's um we are able to be at the school drop-offs and the pickups and um maybe not every day and maybe i'm out a few more evenings than other parents but I do feel like, as much as I punish myself, I am quite lucky that I am here quite a lot in their kind of day to day,

of course, I'm their parent, but you know, there's so many parents that work so hard, and they have such grueling hours, Monday to Friday. And you know, I think that that's... I feel sorry for myself sometimes, but I think also that's really hard. There's so many parents that have far more. Like, we long for the nine to five, we say.

But actually, maybe the flexibility of our jobs is actually also amazing and, you know? No, I think you're right about that. And also the thing I think about a lot is that our work is an extension of the kernel of who we are, like what makes us tick. And having that space to be creative and a bit other is pretty magical. I love the fact I have that freedom.

But how do you go about protecting your creativity and giving yourself that space? Weirdly, I think that my creativity works quite well kind of compartmentalised. So when I go... And I think that's happened from having children. So when I have my session writing with someone, I'm like, right, I'm going to work. I'm going to try and create and we're going to do

something and I'm not going to punish myself if it doesn't happen fully um but there's set times and actually that's worked really well for me um which sounds really uncreative like it seems like your antithesis of kind of creativity which you imagine is like incense at three in the morning and you know um for me it's really delicious and I think it I think it's because I crave that nine to five I think I crave that nine to five the idea of me going to work I mean I always remember Nick Cave talking about this and saying that he put on a suit every day and his I think his studio in Brighton was like up in the attic put on his suit go to work up into the

attic and like I always love that so yeah I always kind of think of Nick Cave when I'm going to go and try and write a song um and um the creativity you know I had to do a work call for my live tour and everyone was in all different places, Thailand, LA, England. So we were all on a Zoom and it was at bedtime. And that's really annoying and inconvenient, but I did it. And I was allowed, the kids went to sleep and we were allowed this like hour and a half of, you know, brainstorming the creative for the live show. And that was also really nice. So although I do the majority in the day, you know, there's moments,

I get, I'm very lucky that I get to do it kind of all the time. And also I have, I have the podcast, which I don't know if it's creative in the sense of like we eat food and we chat. I don't know. It's definitely got, it has to be curated. It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, um,

it's a different creativity, I guess. It is. And also it's something where you have to's um it's a different creativity i guess it is and also it's something where you have to you know have a night an arc in your head of what it is you're helping to get out of the person you're with and make it count because it can't just be a sort of woolly thing of like maybe because and you know you have a podcast which we're doing right now the fact that it's less about you for our podcast of course I'm sure Mum and I make it about us all the bloody time, but it's talking to other people, it's conversation, it's inspiring, it's interesting, it's another form of creativity or conversation or outlet

compared to the music, and that's really helped me too, to wear these different hats I think it's been obviously the podcast is brilliantly successful and I've done your podcast and had such a fun time and you did a live one and we had a really naughty audience it was quite raucous

it was good, I liked it I know there was a woman at the end who asked me something like how often do you and your husband have sex and I was like bring it on I don't i don't mind a tricky question you answered so perfectly you said enough it was so good i was quite impressed with her i mean to stand up in front of a few thousand people and ask that like okay she was she was drunk but people kind of were like a gas yeah it was fun it was you you didn't have my fan you handled it very very well but that brings you to another thing

that we have in common because when i mean if you'd ask 15 year old me what i wanted to do i would have said journalist up there because yeah i was really interested in journalism and that's something you thought about as well for you right yeah so I think it's quite interesting we've both found ourselves doing something where you totally get to exercise that must a little bit totally um and so what's it you know it's a question I'm sure you've answered a billion times what is it like doing something like that with your mum I can picture it with my mum's I wonder what it's like with your mum it's you've experienced it with us um my mum is a force of nature she's incredibly she's a you know a 71 year old woman who has been I'd say kind of pushed by me into doing a podcast

and I think I kind of I tricked her a bit actually I didn't know we did but we started we didn't know the the podcast was going to be a success and initially it was just you know come over to mine or my mum's and she's going to cook for us and she's just going to hand us the food and she's going to bugger off absolutely that wasn't the case she's vital um but it is um amazing and however morbid it sounds to say I'm so thankful that I have all these kind of audible memories with my mum. I think that's magic and I think I will forever appreciate that. Working with her can be slightly challenging, but that's just because, you know, can be slightly challenging, but that's just because, you know,

I think I ask quite a lot of my mum by, you know, doing... Sometimes we're doing three podcasts a week, which is like three dinner parties. Can you imagine doing three dinner parties while she's also been to work all day? It's too much, so we've kind of had to really balance it out and listen to each other. Because as much as she enjoys the entertaining she enjoys the conversation it's exhausting for her yeah that's full-on um yeah so um it's we've

kind of had to navigate that and we're trying to be a bit kind of kinder to ourselves and slow it down a bit there was a moment where I felt like we never stopped the series and that was quite exhausting so we're having a bit of a break now kind of we're banking lots of podcasts um and then hopefully it won't be so I mean I came back from tour and then we hadn't finished the podcast because I'd been away for six weeks so then we had to do loads and it was just intense and it was it was not how I want to do it and I want the podcast to carry on forever um but I don't think I was the kind of best by the end of last year but yeah it is amazing working with mum she's brilliant I'm really proud of her she's sometimes slightly too opinionated and I think but I think that's a 70 yearyear-old woman having her opinions, but sometimes I have to kind of remind her that I don't know.

I don't know. How old's your mum? Mum is 67. Okay. Yeah. And so, I mean, my mum has obviously had experience of doing something that's in public eye. But for your mum, I'd imagine you also felt quite protective I would I mean I've

noticed that that dynamic shifting with my mum and I anyway yeah as she gets older when we go out and about I feel quite protective of her I feel that with I think I feel that less with my mum weirdly because she's kind of I think she quite enjoys like the adoration she gets from some certain people who wouldn't um adoration is always welcome yeah it's fab um but i do feel protected i think at the beginning when like articles come out or interviews and she'd be like hang on i didn't say that like that and things are taken out of context because we do the podcast which we are in control of and we edit she was like no no no why and and she found

it really problematic doing interviews because she'd say things and maybe not you know how we become so yeah um conditioned to watch what we say in interviews because you know on written like word will just come out yeah it will be misconstrued so she had problems with that and also the fact that she's a social worker that she you know wonders whether how she can still juggle these when she is more in the public eye like I think that's been a real battle and I really respect her that she still works and that's amazing but also I wonder whether it's time for her to kind of stop that but I wouldn't want it to be because she feels she has to but yeah I think she I think my mum really enjoys it she complains quite a lot and I get that

um but I do think she enjoys it and when you're when you've got a guest coming up where do you do you feel like you have to store the sort of information about them in some part of your brain I'm feeling really bad um Sophieie because i i don't prep probably as much as you do i think i i i usually we know we we enjoy who's coming on because we've invited them on or they've been um asked to do it and we're like oh we've always wanted to chat to them so we've got this understanding of them but because it's this kind of dinner date yeah you can go anywhere really quite free flow and that's quite nice but i do kind of dinner date, it can go anywhere really. Yeah, quite free flow. And that's quite nice. But I do kind of feel like I'm the captain of the ship.

And I have to steer the conversation to be able to kind of bring it back. Because sometimes it can go so off-piste with mum. And that's what's brilliant about it. But sometimes I kind of have to be the bore that's like, okay, now it's time for your last supper. But that's like okay and now it's time for your um last supper um but that's okay I think every probably every duo whatever their relationship who do things like that probably have those little things they know about each other about what they bring to it and like my mum's the one that's allowed to ask the naughty question because she's like get away with it and that's okay so I let her

do that and sometimes you know she takes it a bit far and I'm like, and she'll get away with it. She always bloody gets away with it. Own each step with Peloton from their pop runs to walk and talks. You define what it means to be a runner, whatever your level embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50 Peloton tread has workouts. You can work in or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks, and hikes led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner.

Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. I think I heard you say something like your mom brought you up with lots of love and lots of fun. Is that something that you were thinking of when you knew you were going to be a mum, about some of the things that you wanted to bring? I, yeah, and I don't feel like I'm necessarily being the funnest mum yet. I feel like I'm a bit of a sergeant major all the time. I can't imagine that.

Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's been really... My mum always kind of took us to the theatre. Or, like, it was the Polka Theatre in Wimbledon. I remember. It's really sweet, that place. Or the Unicorn. Or, like, you know, it was that...

I just remember my mum always taking us to that. Or, like, the Trocadero when Planet Hollywood just came out. Or it would be, like, she'd take us to these places um and she'd always have like we'd always have like one or two friends with us so it's like she was herding like a load of kids because you're one of three right so there's yeah three she must have liked that kind of busyness and also she was a single mom so i think she maybe it was sometimes easier us having friends too so we were squabbling less we used to squabble so much um so I just remember mum always kind of having people over always taking us on kind of trips or doing things schlepping us to like North Wales after school

on a Friday with like our mates and me vomiting in the back because I always got um car sickness and it was like a six hour like she was doing that all on her own and I find that quite that's very impressive and I you know I've just had my husband come in to light the fire because I can't bloody do anything um but the fun thing I feel like it's getting easier with my eldest two to be able to I don't know apply I don't think I'm that fun but I want them to have similar experiences so you know I took them to see Anansi the spider a production of it at the unicorn the other day and my son hasn't stopped talking about it so then I've like booked the Billy Goats graph there you know um and that's I'm really loving that that they're showing similar interests but I'm probably imposing

it on them um it's hard though isn't it because you have those memories and then you're not you're never the same person your parent was but you're one of the product partly a product of yes your environment and what what worked with you and the things that didn't work as well so I think you've always got that thing of like, what can I do that feels actually really natural to me? Because you can't just play the part of like, today I'm going to be so much fun. Yeah, I know.

It's going to knock your socks off. I hope, I think I'm kind of regarded as like, by Juno's friends as like a nice mum. I don't know, that like feeds them well. I think food is like my love language really. That's a very good language. Even though they reject it and break my heart all the time. Bloody food.

Yeah, it's amazing how that can hurt when you've prepared a meal. But I heard something yesterday that apparently a kid can reject something 15 times before they kind of accept it. But would you bother making spag bol 15 times if they don't know? That is agony. Also, but like the little chart on the wall. Yeah, I know. Exactly. We've got nine more of these and then you're going to love it.

Actually, what are you doing for dinner tonight? So I've got some ideas. What are we at Thursday? I don't know actually we haven't had pasta for a few nights so it's probably going to be pasta

it's that one it's like the little one that you can store it's well round yeah and also I've got that funny thing where tonight

I've got a gig and I'm on stage at like half eleven so I've got that weird thing where I'm sort of going to have to disappear into the night about ten p.m.

which I find really weird part of me quite likes it because it's like they go to bed and then I like get into the night about 10pm, which I find really weird. Part of me quite likes it, because it's like, they go to bed, and then I get into my Spanglies, and then off I go. Why is it so late? It's like a superhero. I don't know. Yes, I don't like that aspect.

It's like some private award thingy on the embankment. We love a private. So I'll just disappear off. 11.30? How many songs? Half an hour set set but by like 10 you'll be like oh my god

I was asleep by that time last night babe there's nothing better than getting to bed before 10 I love it so much what time's your kids up

like the first one well the alarm I get up just before 7 to start getting the oldest two up for secondary oh okay because I'm the human alarm clock in our house so I wake everybody but if sometimes my youngest I get up just before seven to start getting the oldest two up for secondary. Oh, okay.

Because I'm the human alarm clock in our house, so I wake everybody. But sometimes my youngest wakes up before that. So this morning, yeah, we were up from like 6.45. Fine. Okay. Up we get. What about you? My daughter's usually the first up, and she wakes up her brother.

So it's always, it's like she'll try and get up at 6 30 we tried the grow clock it's absolutely not worth it just learn how to turn things off as well and also like they don't seem to see that it's still blue therefore like stay in your room they're just like is it waking up time no it's not yeah yeah it's like they just laugh in the face of the grow clock um so yeah i think it was a 6.30 jobby today, but then the little one is really good and he sleeps till like 7, 7.15. But you're already up by that point, so that 45 minutes is lost.

Yeah, yeah. I'm really grumpy in the morning though. I'm the one that can get up with them in the middle of the night. I'm like, I'll do that. I'll rock them back to sleep if they've been put, like I'll do one that can get up with them in the middle of the night. I'm like, I'll do that. I'll rock them back to sleep if they've been put... I'll do all that one. But the morning, I'm just like, it's not seven, don't talk to me.

And it's so... I'm brutal in the morning, whereas Sam's always up because he's a personal trainer, so he's much better in the mornings. Also, have you had it where you're going to do something, like, I don't know, working with something, doing something with a company for the day, and then you realise going to do something, like, I don't know, working with something, doing something with a company for the day, and then you realise that everybody there

is, like, much younger, and none of them have kids, and so you talking about what's happening with your kids and what's happening, it's like a sort of foreign language. Everybody's just looking at you like, yeah, that doesn't sound great. I'm not even thinking about that yet.

Yeah, yeah, you poor thing. You did it yourself. Yeah, exactly. So will you do the school run tomorrow or will I'm actually not going to be there tomorrow I'm filming a video so I'm going to be my call time 7 30 but usually it's me every morning I quite like it actually I like getting the bit where I walk them to school and I kind of I should say like it's quite it's quite a lot of people majority don't seem to want to go to school like ever funny that but i still quite like the that sort of uh routine of it me too the walk i like the walk and they they always

kind of love it like they love you walking them to school i don't know i feel like you know like sometimes my nanny would take them too but when you're there picking them up there's like this smile on their face that maybe it's just because they're sick of bloody being at school for the whole day but it's like priceless it is and so this morning when your song was played at half eight where were you out so that was see that was a bugger today because i would have taken them to school today but i don't know about you but i had to film a tikt TikTok of me listening to myself on the radio because apparently that's really great content I was like well no one told me and if they had got me I was in the playground with it playing on my phone oh babe see you're better that would have been a great TikTok It's too real. Content is too real. So I didn't take them.

I filmed myself dancing to my thing and cringing. We have such a funny job. Oh, it's so stupid. It's so, so much stupid. It's so stupid. It's really stupid. Mummy, what are you doing? I'm working.

I'm working. And you're just like looking at a phone, filming yourself singing. Yeah, it's stupid. I know. You're like, I have to do some work now, putting on the lipstick. Yeah, I know. Exactly.

I can't wait to come and perform. I don't know. I mean, exactly. Exactly. And when I'm walking in and I give them this look, like, you've just screwed up my filming. Oh, man. Are any of them very interested in you putting on makeup?

And then, did they, because like all my kids are fascinated by the makeup. Yes, but my youngest also is just like, you're going out. Because I don't really wear makeup during the day, really. Like mascara, that's about it. So as soon as I've got lipstick on or anything, he's like, where are you going? And can I come? Because he's quite interested in all that.

Because I think you took your daughter on tour with you. I took my daughter on tour when she was 18 months and it was quite challenging. That's quite a tricky age, actually, because they really want to get out and about and move. She wasn't speaking at all. And so she just said, da, all the time, which became kind of the entertainment for all the band.

That was quite tough but and I don't think I was in the best headspace and I'll kind of always really regret that because I feel like I don't know you know you must have had a kind of some highs and lows of your career right and yeah I just feel bad that like my daughter was not privy because she won't remember but she was part of one of the low memories not her of course but her coming on tour should have been a really beautiful thing but it was incredibly challenging and um that's tough yeah so but you know we just kind of we we changed we we changed it all up and this time they came and met me in LA and they came my the two eldest my daughter and my time they came and met me in LA and the two eldest, my daughter and my son, they came to my LA show, stayed up late,

watched side stage to see what mummy does. And that was cool. So, you know, I'm trying to kind of rewrite the story a bit. And she will never remember it, but I think there's something very significant about if you've been doing what you do before you have kids and then the bit after, and then suddenly the bit that you did before they were around

feels like old news. So it's all about that new chapter and what happens now. And then you introduce them to it and you just want it to be really great. And if it's not, you know, feeling that, if it feels challenging, you feel like you're sort of showing them something like, oh, please don't see it like this.

It's supposed to be more than this. Even if they're small. Because suddenly they're along for the rides and you've taken time away from them to to do the stuff and to get the work done and to write the song so you want it all to be like completely worthwhile you want it to be fairy tale which is quite hard to do ever when you know when you've got kids you never know what's going to happen it's like you can try and go this is maybe a really shit analogy but like you can try and go for a roast with everyone out and it's probably going to end up a complete shit show and that's okay but the intention was there yes but

just I think I was putting so much pressure on myself for it to be perfect and is this because what was happening when you had your first baby I had this record that I'd made that was quite kind of autobiographical and struggle it about struggling with the juggle of being a mum and a performer and I don't think anybody really really wanted to listen to that shit but you need to put those things I felt like I did but it was um it was kind of sad and I think I was really low and I felt this such urge to be a mother but I also hadn't fully made it as a singer so I wasn't the most in the most stable situation it was you know it's very precarious I didn't know whether I'd be dropped whether you know and it was very kind of make or break and then adding like that I didn't have the podcast as well at the time so it was you know music was my

livelihood and a complete honor to be able to do that but I wasn't enjoying it it was taking me away from my daughter I wasn't like trying to do this perfect way of like juggling and I just was really feeling like it was too much and then you know it kind of things changed changed label changed management, changed... Just kind of had the podcast... Things looked up, and I started to kind of forgive myself for this. It was horrible, though. And I think it was probably the closest I've been

to a version of depression, if I've ever had it. And I just hate that my daughter's part of that narrative. That's what makes me really sad. Because it's not her fault at all, of course. It's just really hard industry, isn't it? Really hard. And I think it is a bit of a, like, you do feel like you're kind of in a far more jovial squid game.

Like, it's like, you never know when your time's up. And actually, I don't feel like that anymore I kind of feel like from the success of the last record and hopefully the success of this new one we'll see um or even if it doesn't like I've got these different strings to my bow and I feel far more empowered and confident as an artist and a mother and a performer and you know it weirdly kind of I don't yeah I don't have the pressure on myself that I did before I mean you carry on you do it you keep on going it's like it's you're you're a real inspiration you've done it but also you were so I think also I actually really remember like you being very pregnant and performing and you being you know the tabloids being really obsessed

with your pregnancies as well particularly the first one I felt like they so obsessed with the first one I think there's the I think our view of um motherhood has got more positive now and I think people are much more open about you know just talking about the other side of it and how it can work for people and the bits that are tough and finding you know community with it but when I was bringing up this is when I was I was bringing out my baby when I was bringing out music and having my first. Firstly, the timing was like pretty, not probably what you'd write down on paper because I found out I was having a baby when I was just releasing my first single

from my second album. Sorry, it makes me laugh. But it was actually really stressful. And this was a different time with music. Yes, and so I'd just had Read My Lips, which had been this big successful album which I wasn't expecting and murder and dance for and take me home and all this so I was like traveling all over and then I was like oh I've got I've got something to tell people that

I know is going to completely change like everything yeah and uh did you feel scared about that yeah I thought like I mean I was really I look back on it with a lot like a lot of fondness because it was when Richard and I just got together as well so it was like all about like us finding ourselves as a couple and also we were always a family we were sort of three almost from the beginning and like that that felt very precious and exciting so I was very excited about the new beginnings but I also felt really discombobulated about me and what who I what I was supposed to what sort of music I should be making how I was performing just who was I and I didn't really feel at that time that there was many

contemporaries that I was like oh well they've they've got kids and they're doing it yeah you had like the versions of Nene Cherry on Top of the Pops. And that's who I'd watched growing up. Yeah. But it wasn't, I agree, I remember Ellie Goulding talking to me when I got pregnant and I had the baby, and she was like, how are you doing? And she said she found me quite inspiring,

and I was like, oh my God, I'm really struggling, but I'm really, I didn't want to say that to her, but like, but that's so interesting. So what did you do? Did you enjoy it? So I just stopped, the second album we did two singles and just stopped it was like right we'll put that to bed and then I had ended up having him early as well so he was two months premature so he's all in hospital and I wasn't well yeah so all that

happened and then and then Richard's band uh The Feeling signed and then they were doing really well and I just felt like oh my gosh I've completely lost myself here and I'd go along to like you know parties and stuff like for them and after parties and obviously I was thrilled for their success like I loved what was happening but I just felt like people would be like and with you you're probably not doing your music anymore because you've got a baby now and I was like oh my god like of course I love being a mum but that's not everything that's not all about me and I just yeah I was 25 and just felt a bit like uh so I just took my time really and I remember my dad saying your third record is the really important one because if you can get past the third then you've got a career and if you don't get your third one if that doesn't if that

doesn't see you through then it's probably time to think about something that's really interesting so I do think third records are a bit of a turning point, actually. Because if you get beyond your third, you can be like, okay, now I've got a bit of, you've just started to build up a bit of meters on the plank. Totally. I always think of it as meters on the plank. I would picture myself literally like off a pirate ship. And every time I do another album, I've like gaffer taped one more.

So my plank is quite long, but it's really wobbly. I love that. How many records are you on now not as many as i should be probably i started this record in 2020 and it's just coming out now so i kind of missed a bit so i did this is number six but i did i did a orchestral greatest hit which I could really recommend if you want to spend loads of money on an album. But it was really fun. I did adore it. I am definitely going to do that. You're making a double album, by the way.

Also, you've got a bloody greatest hit. That's amazing. It was actually really incredible, but at the time I felt like it was like being on Grand Designs where they knock everything down and they're like, well, this is our budget. And then they make the kitchen a little bit nice and you're you're like well now the rest of the house has to match so you're like well I've got timpani and harp on that one so I can't really I think we're gonna

need that but um the nice thing was that I toured it with an orchestra and went to like do theater tours and I took my then four month old baby Mickey so this was my fifth baby I was 39 and I felt brilliant and I I think I'm lucky because when I have a baby I feel like I've done something incredibly clever like it just feels like check me out I had a baby and I think that not everybody's lucky enough to experience those hormones that rush and i know that's something you've spoken about feeling as well am i in a room where you've given birth sadly not okay um it's directly below you it's the basement room um but i have spilt amniotic fluid on many aaisal rug, which is a bugger to get out, I tell you.

But, yeah, no, I've had two babies at home. Which is magical. Yeah. So lovely. Yeah, it was cool. It was really cool. I know it's not always magical, but your experience of it sounds incredible. No, I was very lucky.

I had three really incredible births and maybe slightly trickier time postnatally um in just with the breastfeeding was just such a fucker on everyone and I felt like a failure and I felt like on the second one I was going to get it right and it was going to be like my thing that I got right um and then it still didn't work and then the third one I was like I'm gonna try again I'm gonna try and get it right my boobs just don't give enough milk and then I was like you know what I've made peace with it sod it god bless formula yeah definitely yeah so that was kind of yeah I had very you put yourself in beautiful easy pregnancies and births um but my postnatal was slightly kind of trickier but you know it's like

everyone has their different journey don't they but they definitely do and i think breastfeeding is one of those things that we're so told is such an important thing and then you feel like everybody else is just nailing it and you're the one who's struggling and i know that with my second i had to stop because i just didn't have enough milk for him yeah it was really stressful but then it was okay for the others yes but i mean when i, I had to get this woman come round, and she was lovely. You know when you get those people who come round, and they're very patient with you, and you want to just hug them,

because they've actually just... Because I can clearly remember having friends come round to visit Ray, and me gripping the arm of the sofa as he was feeding, because it was so painful. And I just thought, I can't let anyone know because I'm supposed to be like in this like little bubbly like here I am on my gym jams with my new baby and I was just squeezing the arm of the chair and gritting my teeth and thinking I hope I'm not conveying in my face how much this is hurting but it's yeah it's full on but we the

woman did help and we managed to keep going actually that's great but it doesn't matter because I always say you know you can't it's like you walk into a room for grown ups and you go well that one and that one were breastfed

until they were one exactly that's a formula baby grown up right there it just doesn't matter and there's a reason where people have spent time working out

what formula will really help build babies totally take it it's good yeah and I and I'm kind of you know i was always under

i don't know about you and i'm potentially will get people talking and telling telling me facts but i was so worried that their immune systems would be shit because that was kind of like the story you got told that like breast is best and all this and like they're all bloody the same they all get as many bloody colds as each other and all of them have had different laments it's they're absolutely they're absolutely fine they're thriving yeah also baby humans we they lick everything yeah don't worry they're building community every day how is it in your household have you got any is this a terrible thing to say because potentially it's all any colds in the house at the moment is it it just, this is the thing. Actually, no. Touchwood. I shouldn't have said it. Touchwood. Touchwood.

Because that is wild, how it just kind of, the thing of having more than one is, more than two that it just carries on. It's like past the parcel. The thing I get most worried about is the times when knits have been introduced to our family. Oh my God, tight knits! Because we have seven heads.

Firstly, it's bloody expensive, and also it just tames it. And we had that thing where we haven't got nits at the moment, by the way, just to clarify. But we've had that thing where what you think of as like super nits, who don't seem to respond to any treatment. Oh, super nits. Yeah. And then I get a bit like my mum was like this as well. I get quite like

excited when you comb them out and you're like 31, 32. It's amazing. I get quite, like, excited when you comb them out, and you're like, 31, 32. I sort of marvel at these actual bugs coming out of my kids' hair. But I would get them too. Oh, yeah. And we both have quite long hair. And at one point, I was ready to, like... It's a bloody nightmare.

Nightmare. Yeah. My husband is not only great at lighting a fire, he's also really patient and good at combing knits through. Even though I quite enjoy it. He can sell that talent. He can monetise that ability. He is really good.

And I am not. I'm like, they're like, mum, it's hurting. I'm like, come on, let's go. And he is really methodical. And that is quite, quite a gift. Yeah. Have you, this is probably going too far have you ever had it i've had it once no no no no i was gonna say or i've done a gig and i've met like

you know you have like a meet and greet and you'll cuddle a fan and you'll think i'm possibly giving them nits at the moment that's amazing don't you always worry when you're getting your hair styled that they're gonna tell you that you've got nits that would be terrible wouldn't it that would be imagine i think everybody's hopefully too polite in that situation how many people and now i'm itching my hair sorry is any we i know we're free have you infected yeah i mean why didn't they die out in the pandemic? Why did they keep going? Oh my God, you're so right.

Yeah, why was the lack of contact not enough to just stop that? I really thought that would be the end of that. They're fucking gross. They are so gross. And don't they come out in September that's like their peak time? Really? I've always... I think it's like September's like when they really are fucking going for it.

Or when all the kids get back together after the summer holidays. Gross. Well, let's move on to something nicer. Okay. What do you hope your kids inherit from you? Tor, like joy of eating. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Joy of eating.

Do they all at the moment like their food? They're very different in what they like. And I need my middle one to embrace cheese. It's driving me crazy. I've got one that doesn't like potatoes. That's fun. I mean, how? How interesting.

Potatoes are so inoffensive. Well, my kids gag at mashed potato. Oh, okay. Mashed potato is lovely. Yeah, and quite convenient, too. Really convenient. So, yeah, I need my son to embrace cheese, not just on pizza.

I need him to embrace, like, a strong cheddar. Oh, yeah. I hope they inherit from me ambition, like, the sense that they can do anything my daughter I've never been prouder than when she said when I'm older I'm going to have three jobs like mummy

and I was like okay great did she say what they are? she said make-up artist, vet and what was the other one that she wanted to be I think nurse so I'm like cool nurturing i said probably go with the makeup artist to be honest um you'll get a better rate um so um yeah she's

yeah yeah they're really they're really they're wicked i'm very proud of them and like there's nothing better than i i'm i've said it already on this but i'm a bit of them. And like, there's nothing better than, I've said it already on this, but I'm a bit of a sergeant major, but I'm particularly a sergeant major about manners. It's like when they get taken something, I'm like, what do you say? And they go, thank you. The little baby goes, thank you.

And it's just like, I'm obsessed with it. I'm a bit like that too. Because I'm like, it's, they're free. And they go so far. And also everything feels so much better. Yeah. When my teenager, a 14 year old, I'm like, they're free and they go so far. And also everything feels so much better. Yeah. When my teenager, a 14-year-old, he was like, do this or something. And I'm like, if you put please on the end, I want to help you.

Yeah, of course. And I feel that glow. Otherwise I just feel like I'm sort of his PA or something. But don't you feel the payoff is really wonderful when you see them with other people? And you see them using the manners. And I'm like. Or someone says, we had them for a play date and they were really polite. Yeah. Oh my God. There's no there's no greater feeling it's lovely that and that started to happen and I'm like oh thank god that's lovely worth it um but um yeah

I just hope they yeah have good manners I know that it's not you know always I'm not saying the struggle or the challenge is eliminated I feel like I've really moaned on this podcast. Not at all. I'm really sorry. No, no, no moaning. What I was actually thinking is, from when you had your first, and you were on tour, and you were finding it all challenging and a bit clunky, do you feel, because I think there's a lot to be said for getting older as a woman in music.

I've really enjoyed. I thought, when I was younger and looking at people my age, I was like, yeah but now I'm like no no this is the really good bit yeah and I think when you're on stage and you've got your band and your dancers and you're doing your thing is there a bit of you that just goes oh my god this is feels so much more exciting and empowering than that you know six years ago jesse doing that i appreciate it so much the fact that i get this release that especially because i've kind of taken more pride and focused in on the live show like if we're using the live show as an example that feeling and and when i had my daughter and son on the side of the stage, I was nearly welling up because I was like, my two worlds are here colliding and I'm in a great place

and I have these amazing fans out there, but I also have my two little people there. And like, yeah, I was nearly sobbing and just kind of almost wanted to just perform the whole show to them. And, yeah, I do feel, as I get older, I'm more comfortable in my skin, in my body, in myself, as a parent. It's, yeah, I feel actually like I'm getting better as an artist,

which is an amazing feeling. And do you still write letters to your kids on their birthdays? I do. That's so nice. They're in each in a book and i'm really pissed off with the book that i got my son because it's not very nice i'm actually gonna this is something that is just such a stupid hang-up to have i'm going to remove all the letters no i'm going to no i'm going to cover it you remember how you used to do it like you put like, that's nice. You put, like, wrapping paper on it. I'm going to do something with it because it's really upsetting me what it is.

But I've written all these letters in there. So, yeah, they've all got a book. That's so nice. And hopefully they will turn into two books because I'll write them such long letters. But, yeah, I, it's this, it's something that my friends, the parents, they read this um letter to her on her 21st birthday and it was like of her 16th one and it was just so funny and i just thought all those things that you wish you could remember about it's also quite selfishly for me i think

probably to not that i look at them but to remember those so is that what you do those moments this year you did this? Yeah and this year you you were really into this and like you said the best thing when you said this and you really, I don't know because I probably would forget it otherwise That's so lovely. It's nice for them

to be able to have those memories of themselves which I probably won't be able to remember when I give them to them when they're 21. No I think that's really spectacular and I is 19 too late to start no I think you may as well just start start okay he's going to be really surprised by this essay he's going to get from his mum but I'm trying to remember everything yeah I guess you because he's 19 now it's like would you do it for his 30th yeah and I'll be like your first word was dark it might have been bus Yeah, and I'd be like, your first word was duck.

It might have been bus. One of you is definitely bus. Yeah, it's all got to be hazy. And they all look very similar as babies, which doesn't help. Oh, man. The photos are kind of like interchangeable. That's really funny. I'm really crap at photo albums.

That's something I'm really shit at. So that's the thing that I'm going to do is just write just writing these letters i think the letters are lovely thank you um i think it's a lovely tradition and i wish i'd done the same that's yeah um it's i have to keep it up now because i know it's a good tradition so we also do this thing that i inherited from el james which because we used to work together you know 50 shades we worked together in a production company before i was a singer before she was a big erotic fiction writer and she used to take photos polaroids of the family each year and put them on the tree at christmas and we're doing that too which i quite like that one so we've got loads of polaroids of each year yeah that's really these are two traditions i'm not very them on the... These are two traditions.

I'm not very good with traditions, but those are two traditions that I do. So I'm glad you took that tradition from her rather than writing... Well, I suppose you can. Imagine me writing erotic letters to my children. Were you a bit worried where that was going? Stick with the Polaroids. It's all good.

that was such good fun chatting jesse uh so much energy and i love it where there's that um nice crossover and yes i have realized i've spoken to a lot of singers for the podcast but it is nice for me because otherwise you don't really get much time speaking to other people in the same job as me i'm like quite often when time speaking to other people in the same job as me I'm like quite often when I go to work I'm the only singer so it's really really lovely to be able to share notes and uh and yeah have a good kind of matter about darkness of our day job but also the darkness of that combined combined with motherhood as well and all the different hats you put on which I mean the good news is there's never a dull moment so that's great it's definitely not a boring life I lead but it is a busy one and now where do we find ourselves well it's kind of quite

a nice day I think we're going to stay coaster home today we had like some ideas of some plans but actually because I'm about to go away for a couple of weeks, I just want some quiet family time here, really. Moot around, play in the park, might have a little wander in the park, and then one of my kids really wants to go to Sainsbury's to see if they have Prime. Are you aware of this Prime drink?

It seems to send them crazy. It's like, I don't mean by drinking it, because actually that's a rarity. It's very hard to get hold of, but just the idea of the Prime drink is a really big deal. I'd say to my 7, 10 and 14 year old, they're all kind of captivated by it. So what Prime is, is a drink that's made by and promoted by a YouTuber called KSI. And basically they do these drops where you can get them for about two seconds in a couple of places. I think it's Sainsbury's and Asda. And then a lot of them get bought up

and then sold with hoiked up prices on eBay or on local corner shops or whatever. But these guys, wow, they just want the prime and there's loads of flavours. And from what I understand, they don't really like the way it tastes that much, but that is not the point. Anyway, I'm sure there was an equivalent when I was little, but I can only remember Garbage Pail Kids. Is that what I mean? Yeah, Garbage Pail Kids.

Cards you collect, which came with a free bit of Cachewingo in the packet. I used to love those, but I don't remember going crazy for it, and I definitely don't think there was a black market on them. But, you know, maybe I was a naive child. Maybe there was a wild side to collecting Garbage Pail Kid cards. Just like Prime.

Anyway, the next time I speak to you, it'll be while I'm on the road. So I'll let you know how it's all going. But in the meantime, I hope you're doing all right. Be kind to yourself as ever. And, yeah, I'll see you soon. And if you see any prime, can you please let me know and do me a good deal on it? All right. Thanks very much.

Lots of love. Bye-bye. Thank you.