Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 89: Siobhán Donaghy

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Siobhán Donaghy is a singer songwriter best known as one of the Sugababes. The Sugababes have now reformed in their original line-up and last year wowed Glastonbury to the extent they had to close the field they were performing to, because so many people wanted to get to see them - shows just how delighted people are to have the band back together. Siobhán signed her first record deal at the incredibly young age of 14, and told me how her mum and dad agreed to put their house on the line for her career. They had huge success as the Sugababes, but also some very turbulent times. Siobhán shared with me that she suffered absolutely crippling stage fright and panic attacks back then, and up until the point she became a mum. Having children has made her much less anxious on stage. To the extent that it was only half way through our chat that Siobhan casually mentioned they'd been performing at Wembley stadium the night before!Siobhán has a little boy aged 5 and a little girl born just after the first lockdown, aged 2. We talked about the pros and cons of taking your own children to your gigs when you are performing. Let's say she's had a better reaction from her little boy's first gig recently, than I have had over quite a few years with mine!We agreed that performing on stage now can feel way less stressful than being at home with the kids... and as if to test that theory out, the Sugababes will be performing at the O2 on 15th September 2023!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello my darlings and greetings from Hamburg. You've found me on tour. I'm on my European tour I'm on the second of my three German dates today so yesterday I was in Cologne tomorrow I'm in Berlin I've been to Hamburg I've been to Brussels I've been to Paris it's been really fun and I did record you a message actually yesterday from

Cologne but I sounded so awful that I thought I'd re-record it here in Hamburg you can probably still hear I'm struggling a little bit I've got um one of those really nasty cough colds proper kind of everything coughing sore throat fever sinus pain like the works real doozy of a cold um but you know what they say the show must go on and it started after Amsterdam so I took it very very easy on my day off in Cologne and then I did the gig yesterday and I spoke to my mum during the day and she gave me lots of advice and uh one of the things she always talks about is something called Doctor Theatre. So Doctor Theatre is basically the adrenaline of the gig, or the show, whatever it is you're doing, kind of pushes you through.

And I do believe in it, but I also find it quite funny. It's become a thing in our family, we say, whenever someone's not feeling well before they have to do something, oh, Doctor Theatre. Anyway, yes, I had to rely on Doctor Theatre for yesterday's show. But actually it went really well. It was a really lovely crowd. All the crowds have been gorgeous. This is my first European tour in 20 years. And it's been incredible to be reunited with folk and to meet people again out on the road this way

and do these shows and sing all these songs. And also it's funny how it kind of opens up your mind to old memories. So it reminds me of the tour I did 20 years ago, which actually was with Richard before we were dating. But, you know, we went to a lot of these same cities. It's quite cute to sort of come back in time. So, yeah, Hamburg's a lovely city. We've been for a very nice brunch today.

It's Sunday here, so nothing's really open, including the pharmacies, which is a lovely city. We've been for a very nice brunch today. It's Sunday here, so nothing's really open, including the pharmacies, which is a bit annoying. But I've been here lots of times before, so I've got that quite chilled feeling where I'm not feeling like I need to be lots of places, which is a good thing, because my mum told me I should stay in one temperature today, and I actually think that's good advice.

It's hailing a little bit out there, so I'm just taking it easy. I'm going to look after my voice. I have a really good gig tonight here in the Kent Club in Hamburg. Anyway, how are you? I hope everything's all right with your end of things. We're nearing the end of the podcast series. What number is this?

Nine. Blimey. So I've got a lovely episode for you today because my guest is the gorgeous Siobhan Donaghy so Siobhan is part of the sugar babes obviously she's been a solo artist in her own right as well a thoroughly lovely woman it was actually really nice to sit and chat with her I felt I think we both felt that we knew each other even though actually we've only met pretty briefly over the years I remember meeting her and Keisha and Mutia so the original lineup of the Sugar Babes but back in sort of well it must have been 20 years ago I must have been around

then because it was when I think when I was doing Murder on the Dance Floor so that's like 2001 2002 and I met them at MTV we worked out that Siobhan then must have been about 17 or something crazy. So it was quite cute to actually sit and properly chat and hear how she's finding things this time around. And basically, she's absolutely loving it. They're having the best time ever. The Sugar Babes are obviously having a big run of success following their reformation back to their original lineup. And what happened last year at Glastonbury where

they had to close the field around the Avalon stage because so many people were trying to see them and now they're going to do an O2 gig this year so exciting things for them and she was just a really lovely woman we had a really nice chat so I will leave you with that and usually at this point when I'm listening back I go and have a cup of tea but today I'm going to have a herbal one which is a bit boring but I'm trying to be good for my voice it'll be worth it in the long run anyway I will see you on the other side it's really nice to see you I was thinking I don't think I've actually seen you in person for a really long time for a really long time maybe like 20 I think we met on MTV I was saying to my husband on the phone this morning I was like I can't remember exactly I've

got a terrible memory I know we've met but I couldn't remember and I knew it was just a long time ago I think we met at MTV like 20 years ago wow so I must have been like 21 22 and I remember meeting the three of you and looking back you must have only been like 17 or something. I'm trying to do the math yeah. Isn't that crazy and so yes nice to see how have you been? How have the last 20 years been? Exactly yeah no good I mean I mean back then I probably didn't even really say hello to people I was I found it quite intimidating those big you know rooms with everyone in. To be honest me too yeah I know you were all really sweet because I remember in that pop world especially when you're all like your peers you're all kind of quite kept

quite apart and you hear about each other before you meet and then when you do meet everybody's just like really lovely I know oh fine everybody's just human and to be honest yeah I've I've very rarely met anyone who I didn't like yeah same here yeah sometimes it's a bit annoying because there'd be people when I started out I'd be like oh I really don't like that you know that artist or that band and then you meet them and they're nice and you're like yeah they're actually really nice I can't be like that yeah I know so you know their music's naff but they're lovely exactly but I didn't feel that way about you on either count. Nor me, you. And I just, I think probably we're similar in that we both of us kind of found our way into music as a sort of not really the planned thing. It's just what happened.

And then you sort of learn as you go about what, you know, when you put a foot wrong and when you do it right and how it all kind of comes together. Yes. Yeah, I definitely felt thrown in at the deep end. And I think it took for me to move away from the music industry and come back for me to get it. I feel like I had to go and get like a nine to five job. I worked in fashion for quite a few years as a model booker. And, you know, learning the business side of that,

you know, that was a real transferable skill coming back into the Sugar Babes this time around. Because, I don't know, I just was stabbing in the dark. I mean, my mum worked for British Airways. My dad was a builder. We're not from a musical family. We started so young. We had a chaperone. But even she didn't have any relevant experience at the time.

So it was just the blind leading the blind. And it was fun, but it was also terrifying, which kind of took the blind leading the blind and it was fun but it was also terrifying which kind of took the edge off the fun side of it you know yeah and I think no matter what happened in your career this is always a good point like when I'm a little bit older than you but I find like this is a point in your life where you start thinking back to like the beginning bit and how you felt at that time but it must be even more relevant to you because you're revisiting those memories from people asking you about it a lot as well so it must be quite weird to kind of be kind of opening that box again really and it is the thing that really

opens the box is just being with the girls again because we can revert to being like silly teenagers and giggling and I mean I now say when I go to work, I'm on holiday. That's what I say. I'm off on holiday and I'll see you later on this evening. Because, you know, looking after children is so much harder. Yeah. That that's an amazing reality check in itself. You know, you can come back, you know,

I like, you know, being there 80% of the time and being a full-time mum for that time but also I get to dart off and do this wonderful creative thing with the girls and just have a complete jolly this time around really it's been wonderful yeah that's really special and actually how nice to have that relationship with it now so what's happening in the here and now for the Sugar Babes? So we've had a great year, which means now that next year is really busy. And it's quite unexpected, to be honest.

Glastonbury was a real turning point just because I think we shut down the field and we were all quite overwhelmed at what a success it was. Which is extraordinary. Just to sort of talk about that for a second. So basically you're playing the Avalon stage, which is the stage I've played in the last two times I've been to Glastonbury as well. I've never had the field shut down when I'm on there.

So what does that look like when you come out? Could you sense straight away that there's a huge crowd? Well, it's more the way they briefed us before we went on. We had to have this security briefing about, you know, whether people were going to be in distress in the crowd. And, you know, would people make that arm signal? And I'd never heard anything like that. I didn't know what the signals were.

And just to make sure that, you know, we really kept our eye on how everyone was. And I was like, oh, my God, we're playing Glastonbury. I'm going to have quite a lot going on in my head, but I'll try. It also just meant it was really loud because apparently they were trying to project the sound so far out of the tent that it was just I mean Mutti was temporarily deaf when we came off stage yeah I mean that was quite scary you guys use in-ear monitors we do we do but it was still so loud from yeah wow it was absolutely booming so what point do they give you a security briefing then? How long before you go on stage?

Oh, about two or three minutes before. I know, so it kind of threw us in a way. So you've got all that adrenaline anyway towards the gig. And it's a small stage, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it was quite overwhelming. But apparently it was so loud, hardly anyone could hear us singing anyway,

so we needn't have worried. i'm just trying to picture that so in times of the chronology of what you've been doing this year up until glastonbury how many gigs had you guys been doing so we did mighty hoopla that was the first gig of the summer and then our second gig was glastonbury oh wow that's the second one yeah oh my god i just had to go mind over matter. I decided to just laugh about it because it's so ridiculous. I feel like after so much time and after having children and coming back where I do kind of, I feel quite mumsy. Yeah, I just have to laugh about it.

So I didn't really even get nervous. It just felt so ridiculous. I was going to say something in that moment probably also sort of gives another channel actually yeah and for sure and once something's so big it's sort of already like well we might as well just have fun now actually exactly the hard work has kind of been done exactly because everyone's having a great time you know we've got all these hits that we can reel out I mean it's kind of the dream really it's amazing and so after that the tour so was the tour already happening when you did Glastonbury yes um I think we

Mighty Hoopla yeah after Mighty Hoopla we decided to do it um and I think maybe our agent had held that date but we hadn't really committed to very much we'd only committed to the summer we were like let's just see how it goes and you know we're not tied into a label um we've wanted to be we've wanted to stay independent like completely so cool and what's the significance of being able to call yourselves the sugar babes again as well the timing of that I suppose is I mean that's from like is that 2018 2019 yeah I think it was 2019 when it was finalized I mean that's just another thing that's just been so bizarre. I always really hung on to, you know, not just from a business point of view, you know, that obviously it's important for us to be able to call ourselves Sugar Babes.

But I kind of felt it in my body that that's kind of who we are. And we were so young when we started. And I remember us hating the name our manager came up with it he wanted it to be sugar babies but I think there already was a sugar baby so we were sugar babes but you know you become it yeah and um you know even when I wasn't in the band for years I was still like a sugar babe you know so yeah the the mks and the mutakisha siobhan thing it always didn't sit quite that well with us we want it's a really nice serendipity isn't there to where where you've come to now yeah and also it just felt like it was obvious that we should have the right to use

that name absolutely um and so when we were awarded it it was um awarded it it just felt like it was just the right thing. It should have, that's what should have happened and that's what happened. And it was, I feel like we had a bit of a run of bad luck and that's where it ended. And now we just draw a line under all of that and, you know, we move forwards more positively from there.

It's really exciting. I mean, I was sort of thinking on the way home from school on this morning that you guys are almost like the sort of J-Lo and Ben Affleck of like the pop world. Like you started at the beginning. Oh, I love that. Like awfully different lives for a while. Now you're like back in. But people get really invested in stuff like that.

I felt really invested in those two getting back together. Like you really want them to. But it's like it's an underdog thing. And then I think especially with COVID, everyone's just had such a rubbish time. I mean, also, there was some great things to take from that. Like, I love being at home with my family for so long. But, you know, it was a tricky time. And I think people, I don't know if they see themselves in us or whatever,

but they like just seeing like some happiness at the end of a bad period or whatever yeah and also there's all the legacy there's so many songs really great songs I was looking through the set list of what you've been doing on tour and all the songs just you know as soon as you read the title they just all pop into your head like this lovely playlist and you've amassed so much work and you get to share. And it's got that nostalgia for people too. And the people that, you know, listened to it then are still going gigging, still going to festivals. And actually, they're probably a lot of people like you and I

where now they're doing all that stuff, but they're also bringing their family along. Yeah, yeah. So you've kind of got all that as well. We did. We had loads of that at the meet and greets. Yeah. It's like the kids saying kids saying oh my god basically the mum has rammed our music down their throats basically their entire lives and now they're you know they're all there together to see us and there was definitely like a broad age range which was

fascinating like and some younger people were like how do they know yeah our music but also I think people thought we weren't going to play all the hits because they thought I wouldn't want to play the ones that I wasn't on. But I mean, I thought, why wouldn't I want to? It's the easiest, most joyous thing to just go out and have everyone sing along. It's amazing. Yeah, and also it's bringing everything to the here and now. It's telling the next bit of the story.

Yeah, you just want it to be easy and nice and and not playing those songs would have felt I think for you probably a bit pointed like a bit weird yeah totally like and none of us are like that precious about anything we just want to have a good time yeah well and I can see that and actually it's really like you can get that feel from even from where I'm standing which is really a really lovely thing and I'm really excited for what you do next year with all these festivals

yeah and gigs and tour because you've announced dates as well your own solo dates as well haven't you we're playing the O2 that's pretty

flipping amazing I mean I'm still trying to let that sink in but I don't think Sugar Babies have ever played an arena like headlining so I mean

it'd be such a milestone for all of us. Yeah, and it's just not, it's also never a given. Those things are, like, totally precious. It feels like when we first got together, it was always just, like, the next thing always bettered the last thing. It just felt like it was just going so well. And then I haven't had that since then. And we really just don't take it for granted.

So this time we're like wow isn't that amazing yeah you know and like when we're on tour like every morning we'd get up like if we were in south end we'd walk along the beach or you know we're just making sure we're just really living in the moment and enjoying it not just you know sitting in the hotel room like you did when you're a teenager and yeah then going to the venue and home again we're really like you did when you were a teenager and then going to the venue and home again. We're really, like, you know, taking it in like you just, you don't know when it might end, you know, so we're just enjoying it. A lot of that really resonates with me as well. I think you've got to really appreciate it.

And I think when you're young and in that first rush, there's so many things happening. Some of it amazing, heady, great. Some of it a bit discombobulating and you're not sure if it's really what a shared desire of yours what the label are after other people and that busy busy diary that you kind of think a bit yes and a bit like oh but I'm not really seeing my family and I'm not really being a being a woman in the industry as well I think you know you add that in if you start really young you've got your own insecurities

going on and then the pressures of you know I was just really opinionated I kind of knew what I wanted in fact I think the three of us were like that um but that wasn't very welcomed you know and it's kind of getting used to that dynamic yeah um because everyone in the room is 20 years older yeah you so you want to to have respect for your elders, but also it is your thing. Completely. But you only really get the balls to stand up for yourself many years later. It's so true, because I remember I signed my first deal when I was 18.

Wow. So, you know, pretty senior compared to you, I know. How old were you? Were you 16 when you guys signed? I think we were 14. 14! The first record came out when we were 15 and 16. Oh my goodness.

I know. So little. In fact, when we were homeschooled, we used to do our maths classes just around the corner from here. Really? Yeah. So your mum and dad must have had to co-sign your contracts. Yeah. Because when you're younger than 18, you have to go with your parents.

Yeah, so they had to sign,sign your contracts yeah when you're younger than 18 you have to have your parents yeah so they had to sign is it an indemnity where if we didn't fulfill our contract they could lose their house and that wow yeah that was a big thing for me because I had watched my parents struggle my whole upbringing um you know to make ends meet and, you know, we never went without, but, you know, times were not always that easy. And the one thing they had to show for it was this house that we lived in. So to think then that I was kind of taking a punt on, you know, so I had to, that I did feel that pressure quite heavily. That's a very grown up thing to have to think about at that age. But also how amazing of my parents. I mean, they're just so, grown-up thing to have to think about at that age but also how amazing of my parents I mean they're just so like when I think back you know like Ron Tom our first manager like he'd come over and he would be like smoking a spliff in the garden and I was there like oh my god what on earth my parents

gonna think of this and do you know what they thought nothing of it absolutely nothing and my mum was like oh you know I used to take the three of you down to watch you know Live Aid at Wembley I didn't have a ticket we we just stood outside and, you know, you were like three weeks old. And I just thought, you know, they've just been really cool about the whole experience. Well, yeah, I mean, before we start recording, you were talking a bit about your folks and how they're really relaxed. Like the boundaries were quite chilled boundaries. Yeah.

And so they do sound like amazing people, but also quite kind of just rolling with it. Like, okay, we'll just see if it's all going to be a singer. Come on then, that's fine. Yeah, they never once said that they didn't, you know, they weren't sure about whether I should do it. All they've ever said is that they want us to be happy. So how did they feel about it? A bit more guidance would have been helpful.

But how can you guide someone if they're suddenly doing a pop career? I mean, what would they know to say? I know. I mean, you get these contracts put in front of you. I mean, what, you know, what do any of us know? And you have to hope that you're, you know, the team that's representing you isn't in cahoots with the people that you're signing to.

And as we all know, that happens quite a lot in the music industry with conflicts of interest and stuff like that. Absolutely. But, you know you know when when I look back it could have been worse we we did okay I think you've done more than okay actually because the thing that's at the core of what you've what the group is is actually completely I mean it's there like your friendship your relationship and you're all women now so

yeah kind of stronger than ever and it really I I mean, it's quite obvious to say, people know, you know, it hasn't always been like that. There've been real ups and downs. And that's why we, I mean, you know, we got back together really 10 years ago and we've been on, you know, great form ever since. But we're still, there's always a little bit in the back of your mind, like,

oh, maybe it could revert back to, you know, those horrible times when it was really tricky. But it's just gone from strength to strength and um we yeah we are like sisters yeah you know we are and it's it's really lovely the way we look after each other like who wants a cup of tea and you know I've got some throat spray and you know um you know make sure you eat your dinner while it's hot you know this is the way this is're doing. You know, it's so not rock and roll. We just make sure everyone's hydrated and has enough sleep and we go for nice long walks. It's quite boring stuff, but actually it's been really nice bonding,

you know, to do with each other. And I guess as well, you've had, you're getting to, you're dealing with each other as you are here and now. And for you as well, a big part of your life now is, as you say, what you said was 80% when you're the family side. Yes. So you've got two. So you've got a five-year-old boy and a two-and-a-half-year-old little girl.

Yes. So when you were... Terrors. Terrors. Shall we just enjoy the quiet for a second? So what was happening at the time when you had your little boy, when you had your first baby? What was going on then?

So I was working outside of the music industry still. I wasn't model booking. I'd just left. So a friend of mine, he was flipping properties in, sorry, this is quite a random story, but he was flipping properties in sorry this is quite a random story but he was flipping properties in Edinburgh and he wanted someone to do the interiors for him and he didn't like what anyone was doing and he really liked my house so he said well you just do this up there for me so I said I don't really know what I'm doing but yeah it'll be you know it'd be fun

and by the time I was so we did we I can't remember how many we did but sort of 15 or 20 properties up there over the course of a few years but then when I got pregnant he said I want to start a nursery chain and I'm going to get you to design it and I said well that's highly unlikely because I just don't have the skill set and he was like oh you know it'll be fine we'll we'll get it done so we worked with an architect that we um were using in Edinburgh and they kind of worked remotely and we opened the first I think there's now 20 something in the chain for n family club it's an incredible success but we opened the first one around the corner from my house in Stoke Newton when Ford was like six weeks old.

Wow. Which was quite stressful. That must have been, well, it's quite extraordinary. So when you were saying he was six weeks old, were you sort of actually going around there a lot and keeping an eye on what was happening and supervising? I mean, the opening was we were doing like colour blocking on the wall, but I didn't really have the skill set to draw or tell people what I wanted, so I kind of just had to do it myself. To keep being there. Yeah.

And at one point, because I was breastfeeding, I'd been out of the house long enough that I thought, you know, I was going to explode. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, that's disgusting, but... No, no, that feeling is like no other. If you have to go out and do anything, you know, and I didn't have Ford with me.

And in the end, my husband had to bring him up. But he said when I arrived home at like two in the morning after putting the finishing touches together for the opening day, he said I looked like a corpse walking through the door. And looking back, I mean, I would never do that again. I mean, what we do when we have our first child, we just think we can carry on. Yeah, I think you don't quite know. Well, also, I remember when I was pregnant when we have our first child, we just think we can carry on. Yeah. And you can't.

Well, also, I remember when I was pregnant with Sonny, my eldest, all the pregnancy books are about pregnancy, obviously. And actually, the last chapter is the giving birth. You're like, and then I have the baby and close the book. I felt exactly the same way. I hadn't really thought about the fact that that's when it all actually starts. Yeah. So I just hadn't really given it

a great deal of thought I'm I'm right there with you I've done all the hypnobirthing all the classes you know I'd sign myself up for you know whatever put myself on weight in this but I hadn't really thought about what you do when you bring them home and then it's just relentless from then on in it is quite yeah I think that's probably the core of you know I don't know maybe not everybody feels like that but for me motherhood is such a big part of my life obviously the practicalities of the day-to-day but also just like it kind of just changed everything in my emotional makeup as well I didn't like it's not like I didn't feel like I was a different person exactly but it's more like I don't know just everything was just given a new spin and I had to kind of almost recalibrate for the things that were still important I had to work you know keep intact

but a lot of stuff just like that's there's not room for that anymore I mean I found it harder than I expected to I you know I just thought I'd be like Mother Earth and I would absolutely love being a stay-at-home mum. But that's quite hardcore, I found. And I did need something outside of that. I love being a mum, but my God, the noise. You know, like never having a moment's silence. I didn't realise how much that would affect me. I do realise, I I mean maybe I'm

a little bit sensory or something you know I've literally tried to google like what's wrong with me sometimes because it's quite it's quite you know just it's it's full on you have to you know in the pecking order you just go you just go much further down the list don't you and that takes a little bit of getting used to yes definitely and I think that you've got the literal noise but also just the headspace of all the things that suddenly are really you have to prioritize yeah um the endless mother load exactly so when you were trying to find things for yourself what were the things you were looking but what role was music in your life at that time I mean we had a tricky start with Ford because he he had a like cow's milk protein allergy um and honestly for about two

and a half years if you were to put music on he wouldn't he would scream and so I felt like I lived in a bit of a world of silence and it made me quite sad once we got to I mean he was about four and a half when we finally got him um like when he finally grown out of all the allergies and stuff and he had glue ear and all kinds of those little niggly things that can happen when they're little um you know now it's amazing he loves dancing he loves music and I feel like the house has really come alive but yeah music definitely disappeared out of my life in those early years um and I found that really hard like I couldn't even have the radio on wow so that's a big thing isn't it if music's always been part of your life and also for me music has always had the ability like to

sort of lift me out of things if I am having a day where I feel like sluggish or frustrated or there's tension or whatever then the right music can just kind of change the script a bit so if that's taken away from you particularly if it's such an instinctive thing for you but also it compounds the loneliness of being on home at home on your own with a new baby like as a first-time mum you know I would have just liked a bit of noise around me you You know, that definitely felt lonely for me, which is probably why I enjoyed a lot of the lockdowns because my husband was at home.

I had my daughter. Yeah. So she must have been born not that long before the... Hang on a minute. She would have been like eight months or something? Just after the first lockdown. Okay. Yeah, we were just coming out of the first lockdown when I had her.

Wow. So we had to do the whole you know he wasn't allowed to be my husband wasn't allowed to be at the hospital and things like that but um how did you find that I don't really I mean I haven't spoken to too many people that had I felt I felt worse for the first time mums on the on the labour ward because I could I could just see it on them and there was you, six of us and we're all facing each other and talking to each other. And the lady opposite me was struggling to fit, like the baby wouldn't feed. And, you know, you need so much more support, you know,

and it just wasn't there. And, you know, I was trying to talk to her about it. But, yeah. That's good it wasn't your first baby. I was fine and I was lucky that my second was just such an easy baby. She just latched on and fed and was like a Tamagotchi, really. Yeah. Yeah, done.

So I've sort of had two extremes in my experiences. I just don't know what you're going to get, do you? You really don't. I mean, you've had five. I mean, were they all really different from each other oh yes yes yes definitely definitely different the reason for me to not keep going that's funny that's kind of why I kept going because I was like I got I got very interested in who else was out there yeah and I like the fact that when a new baby came along that it would change the dynamic of the family again so they'd be like this new person and then everything shifts again but it is also quite full-on chaos yeah well yes there's a lot

of that and a lot of admin and also I was talking to someone yesterday because my eldest is nearly 19 now so he's uh 18 at the moment so we're looking at all like the next bit like foundation course or uni or job or whatever. And the person I was speaking to has three kids who were all that age or older. And she was like, oh, actually, this is the bit that's really full on because they need you in a different way. And I was like, what? I thought I'd done the bit that was anyway. So sometimes you've done the intensive. Yeah, the enormity of like that bit, the next bit coming along is quite like, oh, I've got to do that quite a lot of times.

Yeah. But there's also really fun bits, definitely. And, yeah, with the baby bit, I mean, my first was actually quite an easy baby. I don't really like that term. Yeah, I know. Neither do I. There's no easy baby.

I could figure out things quicker. He didn't kill you off. He didn't. And then the you off he didn't and then the next one he was a bit more like right you know rubbing his little baby hands together and he didn't respond to things in the same way and yeah that one was like oh okay yeah that was quite full-on but at the same time it's weird when they are different like that i'm sort of rooting for them like yeah yeah sure challenge me yeah um and so when when you were having your babies were you was like sort of like pop star Siobhan like was that in your head a bit too or was that just like out

the picture for it was with Vivian because 20 um 2020 was coming up and we... Oh my God, she was born in 2020, my memory. 2017 was forward. So that should have been the year of our 20th anniversary for One Touch, our first record. And it got postponed, obviously, because of COVID and you couldn't get any vinyl printed. It was a bit of a faff.

But we knew we would definitely still do it. So it was always bubbling away in the background. It was quite a nice feeling to have that. It was, it was a bit of a faff um but we knew we would definitely still do it so it was always bubbling away in the background so it was quite a nice feeling it was it was lovely I was really looking forward to it which surprised me because normally I'd be terrified of I used to get terrible stage fright and and I just thought I'd feel like that but I don't feel like that since becoming a mum that's interesting so what do you think has changed in you because stage fright is something that I mean I know that feeling what what what do you think has changed in you? Because stage fright is something that, I mean, I know that feeling. What do you think is the big shift?

Do you think it is having a life outside of it now? Yeah, I just think none of it matters that much anymore. I just think my kids matter more. And that's like the really important thing that I need to get right. If I hit a bum note or maybe fall over on stage, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't, does it really? I still hope I won't. Of course really matter it doesn't does it I still hope I won't of course and it doesn't mean you don't care no I want to do a great job and I will

absolutely throw myself into it but I I actually feel like I don't have the headspace to take it as seriously as I did before it has to be more light-hearted or my brain might explode which is which is great it's so nice that feeling isn't it oh my god it's so it's like you've taken a straitjacket off in a way like okay just relax and the more relaxed you are the crowd feed off on that as well and the more like relaxed our dynamic is between the three of us you know and you can be playful i know that's really nice isn't it and i think as a as a grown-up being able to be playful with your work, it's a pretty big privilege, isn't it?

Yeah, it's magical. To have a bit of fun. Yeah. I mean, I'm like you. I go to work and I'm like, this is great. I'm with lots of people I really love. Yeah. And I can be doing some of the gigs, you know, you walk out and you think,

and then you just go, I'm just going to take this one as like, this is a lovely thing. I'm just going to enjoy singing. I put my in-e ears in and I am in my own world up there yeah for me it's like a night out I'm like I'm gonna sing and I'm gonna dance and I'll just go home and does it feel nice to have that side of you out there and being I mean obviously now that you're all the gigs are happening what's it like to have that space again for you it's nice to prove to myself I still have it in me um yeah I'm putting on like

the stage wear and the makeup and all that I know because I would never get that dressed up for anything anymore ever I'm sorry about my attire today oh no we're both in we need we need a team now you know you need your hair and makeup artist to get. Although sometimes I've had a gig late at night and I might sleep in my makeup and then I've done the school run with like terrifying sort of false eyelashes. Oh yeah, definitely, twinkly face.

But in that kind of like craggy next day kind of way, not in a like, ooh, go to sleep. Yeah, I think my, on the school run, I think the mums noticed, dishevelled me, you know, next to, like, maybe my hair's been blown out and it's still curly the next day. And so I said, no, I would have been doing something the day before. Hence why my hair's not too bad today, because we did have a show last night. Oh, really? What was your show last night? We did the National Lottery, the ITV New Year's Eve show.

Oh, amazing. Yeah. How did it go? It was lovely. I mean, you don't get to do things like that anymore. No. You know, it's only three and a half minutes work. And then you're watching, you know, Cirque du Soleil and Katherine Jenkins.

Amazing. Where were you filming that? Was that up in? Wembley. Oh, God. Okay, so it was a big show thing. Yeah. Ah, amazing.

Yeah. Oh, I thought you meant the one where they do in the studio where it's like they do the numbers and they go, no. No, I haven't done it. Big Wem. Yeah. Ah, amazing. Yeah. Oh, I thought you meant the one where they do in the studio, where it's like they do the numbers and they play. Oh, no, I haven't done it. Big Wembley. No, well, I didn't know they did a Wembley Stadium one. I think this might be their first year doing it. With a big live audience.

Yeah. Because you were playing Wembley Stadium last night. Yeah. I know. Just a casual gig. But again, it's so ridiculous to me that I just don't get nervous. How nice. I know, it's lovely. So if you could go back to younger you,

is there a way you could get that message back? God, it's literally like black and white. Me then to me now. And I just never want to feel like that ever again. That level of stage fright that I used to experience, I genuinely believe took years off my life. I feel like the cortisol that would course through my body, you know, from the moment I found out that I would be doing the show,

you know, and that can be months in advance, I would stress about it for the entire time. It would make me sick and this would be whether it be sugar babes or solo or anything didn't matter didn't matter having other people up there with you didn't change that feeling no it was all about just well the thing is back then is that I was nervous Keisha was nervous and Muthu was nervous and you forget I mean when you're teenagers you don't recognize this in each other that when you're nervous you kind of go into yourself and it can look a bit like you're moody,

but actually you're just dealing with a lot going on in your head. Absolutely. Whereas now we're very good at communicating that with each other. We give each other eye contact on stage. If anyone's having a little bit of a moment or you need to sing their part, we can very quickly do that for each other. So having that support network on stage now is amazing.

And is that a conversation you had to have or is that just happened quite naturally quite naturally Keisha's a real leader in that she's very much like I always feel like she has our back on stage and she's like very much the person that will make sure our harmonies are right and um like vocally and sonically we definitely defer to her to make sure that that's right yeah which is just another weight off my shoulders isn't it I love it well that is lovely but also I'm thinking about that level of stage fright when you're young and actually how that I mean you do feel when you're really really nervous you feel like my system must just be running at sort of 10 to dozen like it's just everything's like pumping and yeah so how would it manifest would you be shaking would you have to have like quiet before what would be the way that you'd handle it

I now realize in hindsight I am someone who probably has like generalized right now I have generalized anxiety anyway um but I think looking back I actually was having full-blown panic attacks sometimes yeah maybe maybe for every show and just still just went out oh that makes me want to go back to little you and like give you a hug or something that's such a lot to deal with yeah I now realize it wasn't normal state I mean what's normal stage fright I mean I don't know but like it's it's the heart palpitations it's your breathing it's you know I don't know how I didn't pass out I had weirdly enough I had I started having panic attacks after I had my daughter when I was breastfeeding and I could be sat there like minding my own business having a lovely day and the chest pains I would experience were really

full-on like sometimes I'd have to put her down and on one occasion I did take myself to A&E because I kind of googled it and there is this thing where it's very rare but like maybe you can have a heart attack from breastfeeding because it's such a stress on your body and I was like well I probably should get them to check me out you know but never heard of that before my goodness you can have a heart attack from breastfeeding but you can you can I mean it's it breastfeeding. But you can, you can. I mean, it's a full-on stress on your body. But I mean, I was sat there like, honestly,

like, was totally fine, totally relaxed. Safe at your home. Yeah, absolutely, in my safe space. But just with this pounding chest pain, I thought, my God, I'm having a heart attack. And I went to A&E and they're like, you're having panic attacks and I really thought that they had misdiagnosed me for a while and then I had to accept it I was like that you know and I look back and I think with the stage fright I'm

like it's they're panic attacks yeah and panic attacks are terrifying I used to have them as well and it's just so like in your subconscious, like you just, you have no control over it. No. I used to get it with live telly. That was the thing that was my, my loo. Yeah, because I'd feel completely out of control. And I'd feel like, like if you know that thing where you're standing there and they go, okay, we've just got an ad break,

so we're just going to set you in. And then you've got about three minutes and then we go live to you. And I'd just be like, there's no getting out of this. I can't, I can't run away. I can't suddenly say I just need to go to the loo or oh sorry I forgot I need to do something and I've just that time is going to tick down I'm feeling this in my body sorry but it's horrible because you just have your you have to sort of fake something else and I I remember um someone I was working with offering me beta blockers, and I was like, I actually don't, all I'll do then is print. I'd print on them.

Yeah, and I thought, okay, great. I mean, no judgment. There's so many ways, like whatever, you're getting through it, aren't you? I just thought, I know what I'm like. If I start taking something, I'll transfer it to that, and then if I don't have that one day, I'll be me. And it started to happen on the tube and all that kind of thing. I ended up having hypnotherapy, which actually really worked for me.

But that was just... And then I think it was kind of like little coping techniques. But like you, I've now got to the point where that has just dissipated from my work because I just... A lot of it's so silly and fun. And so what if something... I've had some really big mistakes happen on live so silly and fun. And so what if something... I've had some really big, like, mistakes happen on, like, live telly and stuff.

And I'm like, OK, I've lived it now. I know what it sounds like and feels like. But, like, talking about the motherload, like, you need the headspace in order to worry. And when you just don't have that headspace because you're so busy... That's true. ..at home, I do now think that must help.

Yeah, I think you're right. That's a positive. And sometimes I'll be on stage and I'll be like, oh, I forgot to apply to that school email about, you know, just like popping things. Oh my God, it's Christmas jumper day tomorrow. We don't have a Christmas jumper. Yeah, all those things.

And presumably your kids have been coming along to your gigs and stuff, have they? Only one. Only one? Which one did they come to? They came to Margate, so we played at Dreamland. Oh, amazing. How was that? It was amazing. But it was on Ford's fifth birthday.

So we were like, happy birthday. We've organised this whole show just for you. And they gave us loads of free tokens for him to go on all the rides. And I didn't know how he was going to react. So it was obviously going to be really loud loud and I'd got him ear defenders and you know we'd got my sister there so that you know if my husband had to take him out my sister could hang on to my daughter but he just loved it oh and he said to me after he's like mummy you were amazing you know then it's like oh my god you know tears mummy you were amazing I know it was so great Can you have a word with my kids, please?

But he's still kind of young enough where I do think maybe in another year or so, Mummy won't be very cool anymore. I've got some that have never come out with that. Oh. When Sonny was little. I think, you know, what you've been really smart with is only taking them to one gig. Enjoy this one show. Yeah, because then they don't have the bit where they just get really bored of seeing you do your thing. only taking them to one kick. Enjoy this one show.

Yeah, because then they don't have the bit where they just get really bored of seeing you do your thing. Oh, my God. How awful are they? They're just like, oh, here she goes again. I know. My 13-year-old kit, I played the Palladium in March, and he had to be fair on him. He had said he didn't want to come.

But it's like about 10 minutes from his school. So I said, come straight from school. You can come for sound check. And then maybe go home or stay. And I knew he was really going to stay because I knew there was no one to look after him at home. And he was livid, like beyond livid. And honestly, I was on stage.

How old is he? Well, he's now, I don't know. He was 13 then. He'd had his birthday the month before. Yeah, 13. So I was backstage getting ready. I was on stage at half eight. He didn't get out of my dressing room complaining

until ten past eight. I tried to put my makeup, I do my makeup for gigs and stuff, and so I had, like, Mickey on my lap, who was, like, newly three, and he was jostling around so much and trying to grab my glitter, but I accidentally put the glue for the glitter in my eye. So I to get them all out by 10 past that I was like I just need these guys gone now actually because I'm actually in danger of jeopardizing the show and Kit was

literally messaging me as I was about to go on going I'm gonna I'm gonna watch one song and then I'm leaving or I'm gonna go backstage savage yeah Savage. Yeah. So afterwards I said, how was it? And he was like, he said, the thing is, I don't understand live shows because you've got the build up and then you've got the first one or two songs, which are kind of good. And then you're just waiting for it to end. Wow.

To be honest, I have been to gigs like that. They're so brutally honest, these kids. And then when Sonny was about four or five, he came to Cornbury, which was lovely like really family festival and afterwards i said what do you think and he said there should have been a climbing frame i said what on stage for me he said no for the crowd when they got bored oh wow maybe i'm just not as good as you guys i think maybe it's not your kids having a word with mine maybe it's me watching your show and just taking some notes i'm just now taking this in because this is what I've got to come. Yeah, it's quite...

Then they come back round because when they get a bit older, you can... When they go on the tour bus, they love that. We give them a job. So my sister is our makeup artist. Is she? Because I knew she did makeup. How lovely.

So we all love having her there. It's weird because when she's at work, she's not really like my sister. In fact, she has a better rapport with Matia and Keisha than me, which is quite funny. But she has a 14-year-old daughter. So Tilly was on tour with us and we had her just like doing, like taking footage for us and she'd be in the pit every night and she had, you know, her AAA pass.

And, you know, at that age, it's really cool, isn't it, to be doing that? Really cool. And presumably for your parents they must be really enjoying seeing you having so much fun well yeah I think for them it's a huge relief also for my husband because I feel like I used to come home and be like how was your day and I would then spend three hours recounting you know this thing and that thing. Whereas now, I'm just like, yeah, it was great. And then we get on with our evening.

Yeah. Wonderful. So in light of that, what's next? What's the plan? Or are you just doing like one foot in front of the other? One foot in front of the other at the moment. We didn't have any time to go into the studio over the summer. And people were asking us a lot about it you know when we were doing meet and

greet tour and stuff and we totally get that um the fans like desperate for a new record it's a pretty natural next for sure question and it and it will and i think it will come but we we we haven't even got the the the time we haven't even done the groundwork of that yet but it is that is the next step now. And the other thing that I really want to happen sooner rather than later is I want the work that we did eight years ago, I want that to see the light of day. It's just so weird that it was leaked and it kind of just sits on YouTube. I want people to be able to play it.

I want them to play a properly mixed, finished version of the record. I'm sure you can sort that. Yeah. When does this come out? New year, like January, we'll start the new series. Oh, then I can tell you. So we will be doing a surprise drop of that record. Hey!

That's cool. So when's that coming out then? Christmas Day. Next year, Christmas Day. No, no, no. This year Christmas Day. Oh, I see. Okay.

I thought you were saying, when you said we're going to be doing a drop, I thought you meant in January we were going to announce Christmas 2020. I think it will drop on Christmas Eve. Oh, that's so cool. We were just like, oh man,

so you must be thrilled to have that music coming out. Well, management were like, oh, you know, we've got to try and go and collect all the parts. There's no parts for some of the songs. So people will be getting the demo, like, mastered in some shape or another. But there was no time to do it.

But we were like, do you know what? Let's just push. Let's just make it happen, this side of Christmas. Because, you know. How lovely. Yeah. God, it really does feel like all things just come back. You've just had to, like, well, you probably always were like,

you've just basically become like the grown-ups in the room for all the conversations that are happening and people are listening to you. We also kind of just let it roll and didn't force it or push it. So people are like, my God, you know, what's taking so long? And it's like when we were pushing to make it happen, there was so much resistance. So we just decided just not to do that anymore. And this year seems to have come very naturally for whatever reason.

You know, there's like some weird thing coming out of COVID. Everyone is just desperate to get out and see people live. I mean, Keisha's noted that, you know, the response we're getting is like nothing the band has ever seen live. We are so lucky. She would know. Yeah, exactly. Who must we turn to as the Oracle? Tell me.

Have you always been this way? And is it ever like, I don't know, is it like getting back with an old partner and then there's partners that other people they've seen in the interim and you sort of know they had other partners but you don't really talk about it or is it like sometimes you talk about it because I guess it's like a whole different chapter but must mind you it's quite a long time ago as well isn't it now sorry to sip in my tea um well I guess the thing is I don't know

the other girls I don't know any of them so for me it's almost like it didn't happen. But that can't be how the other girls feel, obviously. And I know that, you know, in the later line-up for Keisha, that's the most fun she had, although she has said until this year she's had the most fun this year. But, you know, they had a good time because it was just really successful and easy and, you know, it was just bookings and bookings and um she really enjoyed that so she you know there are you know I think highs and lows for everyone in each lineup but I think the thing that we keep coming back to is there is something magic in the

three of us singing together and the response we've had from people means that we feel like it's the right thing at the right time. And, yeah. That's lovely. Also, the nice thing about any new material is there's just no rush because for now all the songs you're doing give people a great show. So it's like when you've got the right song, you can put those things in. And it's different now, isn't it?

Like, I don't think anyone cares where you chart. No, that is so... When we started out, I used to feel a bit like, oh, but sorry for people in the stage we're at now. I'd be like, oh, they must be on Radio 1 and stuff. And then you get older and you're like, oh, God. Radio 2 is where it's at. It's so nice, like, not worrying about that stuff I know that whole feeling of having to kind of like

you know there's always another rung get to the next rung of the ladder and then you get onto that rung and then that one below you falls away and you're like oh the pressure and the whole feeling of like being a priority act and then it kind of like, you know, slipping a bit and then, oh, it's just horrible. Yeah, it's just so not in our control. I'm glad I experienced lots of it, but yeah, I'm just like... And for some stations, you know, maybe we'll always be a heritage act and like, that's fine.

Well, I think definitely that, you know, the... I mean, I say our place, I know you're younger, I'm 43, but the people who listen to things... I'm not far behind you. Not too... well, you're 38. I'm 43. But the people who listen to things... I'm not far behind you. Not too... You're 38? 38. Yeah, there you go.

So I think that all those songs you grew up with, and then revisiting them now when you're in this stage actually feels really lovely. It feels really good. And you've got really happy memories. And I mean, I'm really definitely proud to sing songs that I brought out around that time. Yeah.

And I love it. And I think you're right about that. We're both really lucky that we've got this timeless catalogue that we can keep playing out. And also I think the lockdown maybe played a little part in that because it was a time where I found it really hard to listen to new music at that time because I wasn't making new memories associated with it.

Okay, yeah. Whereas if I listen to something from, you know, 98 or 2003, I've got a memory. I was like, oh, I was here. That was that summer. That was when I was hanging out with those friends. So you can kind of delve into those happy places. Whereas during, like, 2020, 21, 22, it's not like,

oh, I remember that. I was listening to that in my sitting room. And occasionally in the garden. The memory is just not too vivid. Oh my God, I hear you. I hadn't really made that association, but that's probably what was going on. You need the hands in the air moment sometimes, don't you?

And getting back out for festivals, it's like, you know when a song comes on and then suddenly you're like, hey, just a great moment. That's really gorgeous. That's why I've loved getting older. Yeah, me too. It doesn't bother me at all. Me neither. In fact, I like it so much more than I ever thought I would, actually. gorgeous that's why I've loved getting older yeah me too doesn't bother me at all me neither

in fact I like it so much more than I ever thought I would actually I mean if I could never be a teenager again forget it no way no way and what about your relationship with your solo career because that was like an amazing chapter you brought so much good music it was great yeah I mean I loved it it was probably like the height of my depression and anxiety so it wasn't like the happiest time in my life but I'm really happy with the two records I make I made um I think in particular Ghosts I feel like that is the one people talk to me about a lot um uh I love it well I don't know whether I'd make another record on my own. Maybe I will. I don't know.

I suppose it's like a diary entry if it was a time when you also felt quite raw. Yeah, I've only just started listening to it. Do you listen to your own music? Not really. I think sometimes it's quite hard to revisit stuff as well from certain chapters because you think you're not writing about anything that personal and you listen back and you're like. God, it's all there. I've got a song there as a place, and I just don't play it

because I know I'll burst into tears. But then I also think it's great to be able to put stuff into music when you're going through things. I got an amazing message from Miles Leonard, who was head of Parlophone when I made Ghosts. And, I mean, how old is Ghosts now? Like 15 years old. And we were like in the middle of you know

pandemic lockdowns it's all miserable and and he sent me this really long text message and I hadn't heard from him in years and it was just talking to me about like it had come on like on random play on his um through his car while he was driving and he sat he said he pulled over and sat and listened to the whole record and like told me how much he still loved it and what it meant to him and I was just like wow and um yeah it's just that is lovely it was so lovely but you know I think it wasn't it wasn't what that neither of them were like commercial success success stories they just weren't and I've had to my husband's helped me with this he's really helped me over the years to not see it as a fail like a failure um it is it is a great achievement it's

good work and and I now appreciate it for what you know you know looking at it like that rather than like how well it did or didn't do and and people still love it now and you know we did the with the sugar baes meet and greets so many people bought my solo records to be signed and it was like it really felt like it was a like a healing process for me I was like oh my god you know that you know it it does mean something to people and it was worth me doing and I mean I shouldn't need that to uh make peace with that time in my life but I mean I did and I think that makes sense anyway because you put things out and then that's like you intend people to hear it so when there's a relationship people have the other side it's really lovely

and that warmth of people bringing it and saying oh I love this album and this is my favorite song yeah it's like ah yeah thank you that feels really good I think that's I don't think that's about anything I think that's a very like that's the selfish nature of sharing the things you create, isn't it? And the relationship, the next bit back is part of the dialogue. Yeah. You're not doing it to avoid. You're doing it so people hear it. Yeah, absolutely.

That's really lovely. And your husband's advice is really smart, I think. And you've got to be kind of at peace with all these things. I mean, he got me to do a musical. We hadn't long since met. And I released Ghosts. And then it was like, what am got me to do a musical we hadn't we hadn't long um since met and it was I released Ghosts and then it was like what am I going to do next and I got offered this musical and I was like it's if I mean I just thought I was but I didn't think I was really cool but I think I was a bit snobby about everything you know I'd only do something I thought it's really

cool because I was a teenager and um well actually I wasn't I was in my early 20s at that point but he was like get over yourself like this will be an amazing experience like the camaraderie you will feel and like some of the people I met on that show like we're friends to this day and I had the best time also got in quite good shape quite a few shows a week wow but I think is it right you did Rent I did Rent that's amazing that's a very cool musical as well yeah I mean to be honest it got mixed reviews and I couldn't have cared less it was I it was because you're part of an ensemble and you just love the people you're working with oh my god I loved it oh how long were you doing that for uh it was only like six months or something

like that yeah eight shows a week oh my god I was like a bag of bones when I when I finished so it's a double show on a Friday and a double show on a Saturday oh my god it's brutal but I just loved it and that was the start of me like telling myself like stop taking yourself so seriously and actually go out and live your life otherwise you're going to say no to everything wow that's really important though isn't it because now you can really enjoy everything and am I right you're the only one of the sugar babes to be with young children? With young children yes so Mutia's daughter I think is about to turn 18. Oh wow. I know and Keisha would love to have children so we're hoping that's in the pipeline for her surely. And when you've had your diary getting busy does it ever feel a bit stressful about shifting where you are and, you know...

The childcare. Yeah, well, not just the practicality, but just, you know, the fact that you'll be doing your thing and working and away sometimes. Or does that not really... I find it more stressful the other way around. So, like, I went on... We were on tour, which, you you know is like being on holiday and my god you know like you don't look after yourself as a mum and like I would have my rehydration salts in the morning I would do my led mask and put all my serums on and I'd go for a swim I mean it was like a it was

like a spa holiday and then I came home and never did any of those things again you know and by the end of the first week no wonder you're things again you know and by the end of the first week and in more dates yeah by the end of the first week I was like you know had another virus that came home from nursery yes I mean this I'm only joking I mean it's wonderful but I you know I definitely find the logistics and the day-to-day aspects of being a parent like way more stressful there's so much more going into it than me getting up and singing and dancing. Don't tell everybody this.

That's what we do. They'll all want to do it. Well, speak for yourself. After we finish talking, I'm going into a six-hour vocal rehearsal. Oh, my God. No, I'm not. I'm not joking.

I was like, what for. No, I'm not. I'm not joking. I'm going to do it. I was like, what for? We don't rehearse. You're so right. I've got a gig tomorrow night in Manchester. Oh, wow. So I have to be overnight. And I was thinking, oh, what a shame.

You get to stay in a hotel on your own. I'm going to make sure my train journey back. Because I get a lie-in, I'm so knackered. Yeah, oh, I just couldn't make that early train so the moral of the story is if you can if you can

have a pop career in your late 30s early 40s also if you're a new mum and you're finding it really stressful

look into being release an album oh just to get some me time oh god it's so true yeah have you got a support act Oh, just to get some me time. That's so true. Yeah.

Have you got a support act for next tour? I'll come with you guys. Oh, my God, please do. How much fun would that be? That'd be so fun. We'd have fun on tour. Also, I've never used an LED mask. What did they, what's that? I was going to change your life.

So that's the whole face ones that glow, right? I was like, so, I'm just going to say it. I am completely immune to Botox. Okay okay I don't have any Botox what do you mean immune yes and you've tried it and you've reacted I tried it because I was like I got to a point where I was like I don't need to grow all gracefully I'll try I'll have some um and I am what like it's quite rare I am completely immune so I went nothing happened nothing happens I went back five times in quick succession absolutely i mean i just have a permanent frown you know i look angry all the time so i'm completely immune so i was like oh my god well what do i do next um so i bought yeah

like the most expensive led market led mask on the market How long do you have to put it on for? 20 minutes a day. So basically I only do it when I'm on tour. Wow. Because you don't get... What does it do? Just reduces... So the red light is for collagen production

and the blue light is antibacterial, like, you know, for spots and stuff. Or you can do the pink light, which is combined, and it's the double whammy. Wow. But I don't even get that 20 minutes at home, so I'm not doing that every day. No, me neither. But on tour, I came off tour, great skin, I felt hydrated.

Well rested. Yeah. Okay, definitely. That's, okay, LED mask. I never even, I actually never really knew what they did. I'd seen pictures of them. I didn't know. No, it's good.

They are good. Cool. And I haven't tried Botox. I've decided I'm not going to. You don't need it. Well, I look my age, but I also just don't really mind. But I know. I mean, I felt like that.

When it didn't work, I thought, maybe that's a blessing, actually. I'll just get on with it. Just embrace it. Yeah. And go on tour and wear your only team ones. Exactly. And put really expensive serums on. Exactly.

I try a new one every month. Oh, it's been such a joy talking to you, Sharon. Can I come and see you guys on tour next year? Yes. I'd love that. Or just come on tour with us. Yes, please. Let's just do on. Exactly. I try a new one every month. Oh, it's been such a joy talking to you, Sharon. Can I come and see you guys on tour next year? Yes. I'd love that. Or just come on tour with us. Yes, please.

Let's just do that. Yeah. Perfect. See, isn't she lovely? Thank you so much, everyone, for coming over to talk with me. It was a joy. And, yeah, you know, I've always got a penchant for talking to singers anyway.

And yes, I have noticed I've done two back to back with Jessie Ware last week. But it's just really nice for me because otherwise I do meet singers when I'm out and about, but we don't get very much time to really sit and chat. And obviously it's quite a unique job in lots of ways. obviously it's quite a unique job in lots of ways and hearing other people who are in similar situation is always very reassuring and really nice there's always a lot of crossover and also I suppose you know Siobhan and I are kind of peers really so we've grown up through a very similar experience with music industry and the highs and the lows and now I've got to this nice point now where we're both just really enjoying the opportunities we have so that's a good feeling and hopefully our paths will cross

again very soon and in the meantime yeah tonight I've got my gig so I've been alternating my stage where I've got um and basically my my outfit for the first half of my gig is based on a kind of 1950s, nighty and matching dressing gown, sort of twin set. So I've got slightly cartoony versions of that. I've got a pink one with red trim, and then I've got an orange one with yellow trim. And I wore the orange last night, so tonight is the pink. It's like a Cerise pink with a matching red with pink trim dressing gown. I wear to start and then halfway

through I switch to sequins which denotes the start of the party party section and it's been going really well and what's quite cute I suppose because a lot of the people that have been coming they did watch the kitchen discos but they also they want to hear the old songs so it's funny because in the UK I've been doing loads of covers because it was all part of what the Kitchen Disco was about. And here, they don't really want the covers as much. They want to hear the old tunes. So I've been kind of doing a bit more of me, which is quite fun. And yeah, still regretting the decision I made at 14,

which was to study Latin instead of German. That was a bad decision. I've never needed my Latin. The German would have been really handy. All I can say really is danke schön. I need more than that. Anyway, everybody's been very gorgeous. And after we finish in Germany,

we just got one stop left in Poland. And then I'll be back with my babies at the end of the week on Friday. And then I will have my final podcast guest for you next week week I've already started recording for the next series there I've got some lovely people headed your way and I know I'm repeating myself but please do keep your suggestions coming in I promise I always check out everybody you suggest and I've got a lovely list of people that I'm talking to that I'm booked in to see and

that I'm trying to pin down a date for so keep them coming my way it's all good and in the meantime I hope you have a really lovely rest of your week and sorry for my croaky voice but uh I think I'll find a way through the gig I definitely will the adrenaline carries you through and then I'm gonna have to go straight to bed afterwards and look after myself but that's. The partying can wait. All right. Well, yeah. Lots of love.

Thank you to producer Claire, as ever. Thank you to editor Richard, who's doing this while we're on tour. Thank you to Ella May for my beautiful artwork for the podcast. Mainly, though, thank you to you for lending me your ears. And, of course, thank you to my lovely guest, Siobhan. All right. Lots of love. See you next week.

Bye. and of course thank you to my lovely guest Siobhan all right that's a love see you next week bye Thank you.