Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 92: Tess Daley

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Tess Daly, known nationwide for her role fronting Strictly Come Dancing for the last two decades, is also mum to two teenage daughters, Phoebe andAmber.We spoke over zoom a couple of weeks ago (apologies for any little glitches caused by the technology) and we had a lovely chat.  We talked about Tess's beloved dad who, despite being ill, made sure he walked her down the aisle, but who died during Tess and Vernon's honeymoon. She said he taught her gratitude for life, and how she'd have loved her children to meet their grandad.Tess told me how she was pregnant during the first ever series of Strictly and that she returned to work for the second series, just 6 weeks after she had had her daughter. Pretty hard core stuff, which found her, as a new mum who was extremely sleep-starved, falling asleep in her dressing room once, just before the show. But she also said she loves live TV so much, because the adrenalin of it is like rocket fuel , plus you can't fake anything on live TV. I agreed - but I also told her it was the scariest thing I've ever done, performing on Strictly.Tess runs a swimwear company with her best friend Gayle, and has also just brought a wellness book out called '4 Steps: To a Happier, Healthier You'. She said she's been so busy with her book lately that it's been like having a third child. She shared some of her best tips from the book. One of her favourites is about slowing down the breathing, which I agree is really helpful in moments of anxiety.Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. I am hiding, I am hiding From my children, from my children

I don't know if they'll find me. I hope that they don't, please, because I need quiet so I can talk to you. Did you like that? A little serenade for you. I am speaking to you from Friday evening. In the garden are several 10 and 11 year olds, for it is my third sun rays sleepover tonight and this weekend is fun we've got yeah extra kids tonight for a sleepover and then tomorrow night it's my newly 19 year old son's birthday and he's got nine friends coming over so wish me luck with the whole thing basically um how's everything been with you i've been getting bits and bobs together today for a new music video for the second single from the new

album and it's a song called lost in the sunshine it's very easy breezy it's kind of about just a beautiful blissful hot sunny day of which those days will return and so very exciting I'm heading to Italy next week I'm going to be in Rome shooting a video which is basically lots and lots of fun and it's with my favorite Sophie Miller again who I've been working with for like over 20 years now actually so I kind of know what to expect it's going to be lovely and yes I've been getting some clothes together for that today and also I've been doing this week uh for that today. And what else have I been doing this week? Last night I went to a Marie Curie event and sang for them and that was really fun. They did really well.

They raised nearly half a million for the charity that night. So that's brilliant. And what else have I been up to? Golly, the week's gone by in a bit of a twirl. It feels like I start Monday and I'm like, oh great, I can get loads done. And then it's blink and it's the end of the week's gone by in a bit of a twirl. It feels like I start Monday and I'm like, oh, great, I can get loads done. And then it's blink and it's the end of the week again. But this is a bank holiday weekend. First one of two in succession,

which is actually quite nice. Normally I get a bit grumpy about bank holidays because they feel a bit like I haven't, I feel this pressure to have organised things and I normally haven't. So they're just like an extra day of lolling. Nothing, not that there's anything wrong with that. But this week actually, it's really good timing

because it means I've got a bit of time with everybody and time to recover from these two, the double bill of birthday parties. Plus, next weekend, when I come home from my trip, it means I get an extra day back with the kids. So that all works out really well, actually. I was thinking, I'm actually on the brink of quite a... Oh, by the way, I do know I need to change the intro

of this Blooming podcast. It says the kids' age is wrong age is wrong doesn't it says they're 16 months to 16 and now they're actually 4 to 19 so very out of date but this year is actually really significant because my youngest is going to start reception in September my um 11 year old will start secondary school my 14 year old will start GCSEs and my eldest will leave school and start a hopefully a foundation course so it's all systems go really it's crazy isn't it the wheels turn that's what happens isn't it and the other day I went away with the kids with my mum and I was like oh this is nice know. For the first time in ages, really, I haven't got a little one, a very little one. You know, no bottles, no nappies, no buggies.

Of course, I thought, oh, it'll all kind of calm down a bit when you haven't got a tiny baby or a toddler or whatever, but actually it just shifts. Well, that's my experience anyway. It's not that it calms down, it just shifts into something different. I'd say the kids need me just as much as they ever did, really. It's just different things. And, yeah, the emotional complexity of the bigger ones as well it's sort of like somehow it sometimes feels like a bit more really but it's lovely and it's funny earlier today I was walking

my little ones to school and my eldest boy as I say's 19 now, and I saw him walking across the green on his way to college, and he didn't know I could see him. And I thought, golly, if I just passed him in the street, I wouldn't see him as somebody's kid. I'd see him as just him in his own right and a grown-up. And I just thought, that's crazy how that happens. In the blink of an eye, he stopped looking like someone's little boy, and now he just looks like a young man, that's what happens, isn't it? Anyway, this week I spoke to Tess Daly, which is really

lovely for me, I've known Tess for quite a long time, we first met when I was a teenager actually, or at least when I was about 20, I was young, and I was at the time having a brief and unsuccessful little chapter where I was modeling um I did a shoot and she was there and I always remembered that she was really kind to me she didn't need to be but she was just really warm and you'll hear when we speak that she obviously still keeps an eye on on younger girls coming into the same industry as her because she spent a long time modeling and her eldest two girls are into the same industry as her, because she spent a long time modelling. And her eldest two girls were exactly the same age as my eldest two boys, so that was a nice crossover.

In fact, I remember, you know how it is when you have a baby and you remember who else is pregnant at the same time as you. I remember her having a baby when I had Sonny. So that was nicely joined up, and obviously we also had the Strictly Come Dancing experience of when I did the show and she was presenting. And I just think she's one of those people who've actually, when you step, she's had such an amazingly successful career.

And also she's kind of got that rare thing where she's got a regular job in live TV that's lasted, you know, a couple of decades. And those, you know, those jobs, having that line of work is few and far between. So, so complete, like, hats off to her for what she's achieved, really. And good luck to Vernon for his new day job, taking over at Radio 2, the Canberra slots. He's going to be great. But yes, it was a really lovely chat with Tess, and lovely to catch up. And she's got a lovely new book out and you

don't need me to tell you she's gonna tell you so over to Tess and I and I'll see you in a minute for the kids how are you today Tess I'm good honey nice talking to you. Yeah you too, I was really looking forward to chatting to you and thank you for sending me your beautiful book. Congratulations on another another book. So I want to talk to you first about the book actually because obviously it seems health and well-being is a massive part of your life and I wondered, I wondered actually where that started for you. Well, I've been passionate about wellness for probably my entire adult life because it's important. And yeah, it's a real sort of hobby of mine. And that's why I was really excited about writing the book because I'm getting to share a real passion of mine.

And it's brilliant. getting to share a real passion of mine and it's brilliant it's like sharing the four steps of wellness that have worked for me throughout my adult life they're just they're simple they're easy and I want to share them you don't you sit down with your girlfriends and you have coffee or you meet for lunch and you just share all the stuff that's like important to you yeah um it feels like that you know it feels like getting the chance to sort of share stuff that you are passionate about with other people. And that's, you know, that's a luxury. It's a treat.

So, yeah, it's been a blast to do it. I've really enjoyed it, the whole process. And it made me think as well, like, with having time for yourself in terms of, you know, looking after your diet, your sleep, you know, feeling relaxed, feeling healthy in yourself. Was that something you've been doing since your girls were little because I do think sometimes when you've got young family that can be quite tricky can't it oh it's so tricky you know I think as as women I think we

sort of tend to often not neglect ourselves but we are last on the list of everything we have to do and everyone we've got to look after in our lives and all the responsibilities that we have and all the balls we're keeping in the air um it's sort of you know it feels like we are we're last on the list really so i think i think it's really important that we look after ourselves so that we can look after everything else that we do need to maintain and everyone else that we need to look after in our lives you know so it feels like yeah it feels like a priority for me because I think if we're not there if we're not there for ourselves then you know we can't be there for anyone else

can we I think that's really true actually because I think sometimes you feel like having those moments for yourself and prioritizing yourself can feel like time when you're taking away from all the other things that are pulling on your time but actually if you've made that priority then yeah as you say you can actually be better equipped to deal with all the other stuff that you've got to deal with exactly because if you haven't slept enough you're not going to feel like you're going to you know you're just kind of you're not seizing the day you're just getting through the day if you haven't slept enough if you haven't got the energy if you're not looking after yourself if you're not sort of fit enough so that's why I talk about these four steps in the book because for me they are simple easy steps

that we you know we can incorporate into our day without too much effort five minutes we might spend just I don't know doing an online yoga class just moving a little bit more for fitness and flexibility for example that's one of my steps is movement and you know it's if you can just spend five minutes in the morning maybe five minutes at the end of the day as well on yourself you will benefit for it and it's just all about those simple healthy habits that we can we can fit into our busy lives and we can maintain them. You know, it's all quite accessible. It's not preachy. It's practical.

Yeah, definitely not preachy. It's a bit of a manual. Because if we don't sort of take on habits that are easy to sustain, then we'll just let them fall by the wayside. Because even if it's difficult, it tends to get kicked to the curb, doesn't it? Definitely. Because we're too busy with everything else. So I wanted to make it sort of really accessible and just easy easy to follow stuff that just you know small

small steps for your health that just make you collectively make you feel better yeah and I think you're right it's it's accessible and easy but also really supportive and you've also sort of given some insights into times when you've maybe felt like you were a bit depleted and there's one bit where you spoke about when you were presenting and you must have this must have been when you've got so you've got now got two teenage girls but this must have been when they were really little and you said you had went for like a 10 minute nap before you were doing strictly and then you actually sort of ended up having this big knock on the door like it's time to go down to the studio I mean that was the biggest sort of period of sleep deprivation in my life becoming a new parent i'm sure parents can relate um

new babies in particular aren't that fond of sleep yeah phoebe who is now 18 she yeah she didn't sleep sort of for the first three and a half years of her life and i had to go back to her she just didn't want to sleep she just wanted to wake up and socialize and all night uh so I remember I had to go back to work sort of six weeks after um she was born and yeah I just I was just so tired from waking up three or four times a night when you've got that awful broken sleep and I was in my 30s then but it was still tough you know what I mean I was I had a lot of energy but even so if your sleep is broken three or four times a night it's brutal it's like torture isn't it it's the worst it's the worst and all you think about when you wake up is all the things you've got to do that day that are going to be that much harder you've got to do it's like the

to-do list is so daunting when you haven't slept, isn't it? And you're just trying to get through the day, counting the hours down until you can try and get some precious sleep again. And I remember, yeah, going back to work after six weeks. And it was tough, you know. You're, like, breastfeeding and you're pumping, expressing the milk so you're not going to lick. I mean, it was all that's going on. And just not having slept enough so yeah I remember once being in my dresser being really tired lying down and just sort of falling asleep and the next you know oh you're on and it and it's I mean you do it because you've got a thank goodness for sort of live television

because the adrenaline of that is like rocket fuel it's wonderful it gets you through everything I'm sure you know that from performing you know it's like that that adrenaline it's it it is your friend it gets you through everything definitely but but that was rough and going through that sleep deprivation as an as a parent it just makes you know you realize I cannot function like that again yeah because it was really really tough so sleep I, is just so important. Most of us aren't getting enough. Quality sleep is really important because, you know, it's where we reset ourselves,

we recharge ourselves. It's how, you know, our immune is affected with a lack of sleep. Our wellbeing, our skin is affected, you know. It affects everything. So yeah, I think it's super, super important. So I have a lovely little sleep routine now that helps we talk about sleep in the book I talked to a sleep expert

who knows the science behind sleep Linnea Patel she's a very clever lady and so she sort of sleep trains athletes and all sorts of people NHS workers and yeah she's brilliant so there's lots of brilliant sleeping tips in there because sleep is everything. It is. When you've been without it. Yes. And I was thinking that maybe, so both your girls are teenage. And actually, I realised, I think I already knew this in the back of my head, but our, my eldest two and your children are born exactly the same time. So 2004, 2009. Yeah. Yes. Identical. And firstly, it's quite exciting isn't it when they get older and no it's funny how i think unis all that is exactly and it's funny how it morphs because i don't know about you but i i think when you when you're first introduced to the world of parenting

you know that that bit of when they're little I mean it's incredibly busy and visceral and intense with all the things you've got to do but I actually think the bit when they're older is so complex and they still need you as much but you've got to sort of navigate this new new relationship where you're where they're evolving to and also where you are as well and keep it all in the present tense so it's not all like well I babied you like this and that's how I remember you being really sweet at that age and then you sort of lose the threads of where they're at so how do you find it having your girls growing up yeah it's it's it's like a minefield having to negotiate like how to do that properly because you can't be too preachy with them because then they're just going

to naturally back away from that it has to feel like they're you know they're reaching their own decisions in life and you just need to advise them and and sort of guide the way gently subtly um but yeah I totally agree with you that it is like you're almost needing more isn't it as they get older because they you know there's that they need more life advice they need more I don't there just seems to be more kind of I don't know then there seems to be some more mental hand-holding really if you like and and it's just yeah it's amazing really how much you are needed yeah um as they get older and so it's a learning curve I think as you go as you go through it you know every every new stage in their teenage life is a learning curve and we were joking Amber now is she's 13 and we were joking when she turned 13 she was probably going to start snapping at us because she was the world's most ethereal

like her nickname was a little buddha you know she just cradles babies and small dogs and you know is often picking flowers she's very ethereal very sweet and we're like amber you won't ever start snapping will you when you turn into a terrible team and yeah the other day she was snapping at us and we laughed at her and she laughed she just stopped and laughed at herself because she realized it's just the hormones it's just the way it is and so yeah we can we've got a great relationship with our girls and they are brilliant girls um but we yeah we learn as we go like everybody else on that you know on that parenting journey because every step is a new step when your child starts to drive oh that's a whole new minefield you know i'm like i've got i've got that at life 360 and i track phoebe on it literally track her

like obsessively till she gets to her destination because she's a new driver and the relief when I see she's reached that so yeah you never stop do you never stop parenting I mean honestly I don't know when that kind of like all seeing eye ends is it when they move away from home I'll still be worrying oh my goodness it is what it is and you wouldn't change it for the world no you wouldn't and you kind of understand don't you suddenly like the dynamic of how our parents must feel about us as we were growing up and yeah I put my parents through a lot actually did you yeah did you yeah and there was no life 360 no exactly I mean there was nothing oh she's still not home yeah I know there was no way of finding where we were at that point there weren't even mobile phones

I know and actually I think the last time I saw you we were having a bit of a chat about your teenage years and how that was the time when you were actually traveling the globe and with your modeling career going off and having all these independent you know travel staying away um I mean how formative is that experience that was I mean it was wild I remember I was 17 and I was in living in Tokyo for a few months and like I said there were no mobile phones and so I literally had to arrange with my parents that I would be in my apartment in Tokyo on Thursday night at seven with the time difference. We had like a two hour window when they could call me and I had to be there no matter what,

because I had to be on the other end of the phone because there were no mobile phones. I mean, they lit that one and I had to wait all week and think Thursday, I've got to be in at seven because that's when they're going to call me. So it was different then. Yeah, I'd get on like bullet trains and nobody would speak English the signs would be in Japanese and the only way I could time my journey and know when I was getting off the stop because the stops would be in Japanese the stations uh was I'd set an alarm clock I'd have a little alarm clock in my back and I set it because those bullet trains in Japan were famously always on time so I'd set it 10 30 we arrive um asaka for example i get on the bullet train and we go there and i'd set my alarm and that's when i'd get off at that stop hoping it

was on time because there was no way so yeah you were really on your own at that point it was just i'd never traveled abroad i don't you know i'd never eaten sort of foreign food never mind raw fish sushi so it was a big learning curve and traveling the world and that sort of between the ages 17 18 19 I lived um in Paris and uh in Madrid Barcelona Tokyo um and it was just it was amazing because I'd never really traveled and it's such a brilliant cultural experience soaking all that up and living as a local not as a tourist and that life experience was it was oh it was amazing I think I mean it really sort of taught me a lot about people I met some wonderful friends I'm still And that life experience was, it was, oh, it was amazing, I think. I mean, it really taught me a lot about people.

I made some wonderful friends. I'm still friends with today. And just meeting people from different cultures. And, yeah, it was, I wouldn't change that for the world, actually. It was brilliant. I suppose it's an interesting, and I think it's just the way that modern life is now, that you've got, on the one hand, you travelling around in Tokyo, trying to time your journeys and hoping you're at the spot versus watching Phoebe drive to her destination.

I know, I know. She's only going 20 minutes, I'm a nervous wreck. It's ridiculous, isn't it? It is, but I guess... It's so ridiculous. I know, if our parents could attract us round there. Loosen the leash, loosen the leash. Well, if your mum could attract you in Tokyo, seeing the little dots.

Oh, she's reached Osaka. She probably would. Yeah. She's there. So I was thinking, actually, I don't know if there are many parallels, really, but I was thinking it's funny because I grew up with my parents both working in TV and my mum doing live TV when I was little. And I thought, I wonder what your,

because I didn't really realise until I was looking properly at the dates that your so your experience of presenting strictly is it pretty much exactly the same time you've been a parent right so what was happening when you had when you had Phoebe was that when you so was she born when you started it was series she yeah I was pregnant with her series one and then had her between series one and two wow so yeah and um yeah so she's it's always been there for her yeah it's been there um she was in the womb and the strictly theme tune is playing i wonder what she's like me with the blue peter theme just like wonder what the association is for her with with that theme and i wonder if she had a moment where she's like oh not everybody's mom is doing that on the weekend yeah i know it's funny yes i remember when she was little and i'd be at work

and she'd watch with her dad and she used to point to the telly and go why is mommy in that box why is she so little why can't I see her she's little in that box um yeah that was when she was very young obviously but uh yeah I guess for like for you as well I suppose it's just what you do isn't it it's just normal much so really it's normal and then you realize it's not it's not what everybody's doing but then you sort of recalibrate because there was a time where my mum's job had it was like really brilliant currency in the playground and I would definitely exploit that aspect sometimes literally like selling blue peter badges but sometimes more metaphorically. Like, you know, finding it kind of, I don't know, made some social things a bit different for me.

Like I literally would introduce myself by saying, I'm Sophie and my mum presents Blue Peter. But I'm not saying your children would be as crass as that. That was Big Peter, so Big Blue Peter. It's pretty cool. It just would make people be a little bit more open to chatting to me. So I would use that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you give would be a badge we are bff but i think for you in in being

in broadcast i was thinking like there's there's very few jobs in in live telly that have got such longevity and it's a little bit of a holy grail and i think also not only have you had this brilliant prime time you know well-loved show for a holy grail and I think also not only have you had this brilliant prime time you know well-loved show for a long time but also I think it being live makes a massive difference because I think live telly is the best because it starts at certain time finishes and as you say you've got that adrenaline but for you as a host what is something that is going through your head that maybe people at home wouldn't understand is what you're juggling well I I love live tv because you can't fake it it's so real it only happens once and

nobody can say can we there was a plane flying over we picked it up in sound can we just set can we do that whole conversation again please and when you you know when you have to do it again you never get that same moment twice so I love live television for that reason everything is happening in real time and it's absolutely genuine it's not contrived it is real emotion anything could happen yeah often does um so for me I love that I love the adrenaline because it just puts me right in the moment in the flow and anything that puts me in the moment, I love, because, you know, obviously, we're always so bombarded with everything outside of us all the time, you know.

We're at the mercy of our phones that are constantly demanding our attention, everything's demanding attention. So when you are in that, you're forced to be in that moment. I remember as a composer talking about this moment, being in the flow. It's like that live moment demands that you are absolutely there. And so it's like almost like not meditative, but it's brilliant. It's brilliant for just focusing you completely. So, yeah, I really enjoy it for that reason because it demands complete focus,

which is rare in our lives because we're always multitasking, aren't we? Yes. I mean, I say that, but I'm still multitasking because someone's talking in my ear what now saying okay let's do it now it's like wow oh no not now during the telly yeah that's just you honey uh yes so I enjoy it for that reason um that it just sort of yeah it demands that focus and I love it when you sort of have to be right there in the moment because that's kind of after all that's where the joy is isn't it you know what I totally only be in the moment more often well I think there is a privilege in that actually and I don't think everybody gets to experience that with

their work and I think that thing as you say of being totally focused that I think there is a meditation in it and I think particularly if you're someone that maybe is not very good at like for me like the actual mindfulness is not something that I can, I've ever been able to access. But then I realised that maybe I've got other ways of doing the same thing to my brain

in a different way. Because when I go on stage or if I'm doing something live, that thing of just letting everything drop and you're just in that moment is really crucial to my wellbeing. I really, I really understand that um yeah it's

special isn't it it is special and that's why for me like i've got like i've been trying to meditate for for you know on many different occasions and there are moments when i think i'm nearly there i'm really there and then you think i'm thinking i'm thinking i'm nearly there so i'm not there because i'm still thinking and i can't stop the thoughts because it's so difficult isn't it to stop those so difficult and you know that's why breathing I've got one of the four steps in my book is breath breathing because conscious breathing now this has been a game changer for me it is this it is so simple to do and to access and it is almost meditative because it puts you in that moment with minimal effort you don't have to

stop the thoughts because you can count, you can close your eyes, but you can count your inhalation, count, just count on the in-breath, on the inhalation, close your eyes, for example, count to three on the inhalation and then count again, maybe a little bit slower, maybe to four or five on the exhalation. So're breathing in you're breathing out you're counting how many how long it takes for you to inhale how long it takes you to exhale and if you do that sort of five six seven eight nine times you are in the moment your mind is calmed because you are counting on your breath you're thinking about your breath you're totally focused on that your thoughts are not wandering and it calms your mind. It calms your system.

Your whole body sort of just calms, you know, it calms, it calms those spiky cortisol hormones and all those stress hormones. You can use it to put yourself in the moment and calm yourself in moments of stress. I do. At night, I use it as sort of as a sleep tool to help me just wind down and stop the to-do list playing for tomorrow instead concentrate on the breath and I just concentrate you know I just count the breath count on the inhale count on the exhale and it is absolutely brilliant I swear within a couple of minutes you are centered and for me it works as a real mindfulness tool I cannot recommend it highly enough and it's free it's

easy to access we all do it we all breathe but we're not very conscious of how we do it you know and so there's a yeah there's a whole section about breath in the book because I think it's it's so interesting how we breathe as well whether we breathe sort of nasally at night we breathe through our mouths and there's so many interesting facts about nose breathing versus mouth breathing for example and I worked with a wonderful breath expert Rebecca Dennis um she's a best-selling author she has she runs breathing breath workshops and um we work together and she just sort of taught me about the benefits of nasal breathing over mouth breathing and you know you breathe through your mouth at night for example you might have a cold and you wake up and you've got a dry throat and a dry mouth you've been

breathing through your mouth but your skin is also really dry um me you know i'm at an age now i can see that if i what you and it's because we lose like something like 40 percent more water we from our bodies through breathing through our mouth at night it really dehydrates us 40 we'll lose 40 percent water breathing through our mouths so therefore it dehydrates us it's not our skin looks terrible as a result we are dehydrated our nose has not filtered the air we breathe which is more beneficial for us because we've been breathing through the mouth it hasn't filtered you know the bacteria the viruses in the air we might be snoring more we've had a less restful

sleep just by breathing through the mouth so it's just really interesting like breath as this whole kind of like it's brilliant like it's like it's like a sort of a i don't know it's like a super tool we've got inside of ourselves that we don't use very much so yeah i completely agree it's really interesting on each step with Peloton. From their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in.

Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks, and h hikes led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner. Peloton all access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. And it can actually flip the script as well of how you're feeling and how much control you feel and how centered you are. Exactly. As you say in stressful situations and I think even if you're just driving you know you can sort of breathe in breathe out a little bit just just put yourself in the moment with that with your breath yeah

because you know sometimes we just need to just get back into the moment because everything is bombarding us quite a lot isn't it yes usually and actually for kids as well, it's, I think that's something that people are equipping children with better now is how to center themselves in that way. And it's a really powerful tool, as you say, helping with sleep. But I know that breathing is something you can actually, it sounds ridiculous,

but you can completely sort of take for granted how you breathe and actually not even think of it. If things are escalating, you can sort of forget and get into bad habits without actually checking yourself am i getting enough oxygen am i taking proper deep breaths because when you start to you can easily just do very shallow breathing and then get very panicked most of us do from the chest when we're like stressed we breathe we yeah we breathe shallowly and there's also that kind of like we stop we stop breathing like it's like have you heard of email apnea?

When people are emailing, I know I'm guilty of this. And you're typing. And then you realize that you're sort of holding your breath. Oh, yeah. Until you hit send. I bet you've done it. I bet you've done it. Just notice, next time you're sending an email,

and I'll bet you notice, you'll hold your breath. We do it. We do it when there's a demand on our time and we're doing a task and we tend to sometimes hold our breath and it isn't good for us it is not good for us we are breathing too shallowly from our chest we should be doing it from our diaphragm from our gut better for us much more efficient and we are guilty of holding our breath way too often and again it's not good for us. Yeah. I think it's a business.

I think it's business in our lives that makes us do it. You know, we sort of tend to hold our breath until we've completed another task. You know, not for duration, obviously, but you will notice that you have moments of holding your breath. Yeah. No, no. And actually, years ago, I used to have panic attacks when I was in my early 20s.

And I went to see a hypnotherapist and one of the things that was really good for me was learning how to control my breathing when I could feel my stuff starting to wobble and it's something that I've carried with me to this day and if someone's starting to panic a bit if you try and do three times the exhalation for your inhalation it just starts to regulate your oxygen and it really calms you down so you make the exhalation last three times longer yeah you mean slower yes exactly just so you're right because when you're um panicking you start to hyperventilate and you're breathing quicker and that's what can make you get too much oxygen and you'll get that's when you get that sort of like feeling a bit lightheaded

and like you're moving a bit out of sync with what's going on around you. So if you can just regulate your breathing, you can often ground yourself again. Because it's that sort of fight or flight action, but without anything you're actually fleeing. So your body's doing what it thinks it needs to do. But actually, if you're not actually panicked, if there's nothing that's immediate, you know, there's not a dinosaur about to get you. Not dinosaur like you know what i mean like let's say something

would be like a saber-toothed tiger it would have been i guess then you know you you you're you're not if you're not actually fleeing that or a fire let's pick something a bit more realistic for now um then it's like your your body goes into that action but you don't need to if you're just having a panic attack that's you you've just got a kind of whatever is the the bit and it's just useful having that as a tool you know it's useful having something so you can just nip it in there and you know you can just nip in the bun just stop it from escalating yes and just ground yourself and know that you are in control of those thoughts yes and um when we're talking about feeling a heightened sense of uh panic and that i would say that when i did strictly i found it i still regard it as the most terrifying thing

i've ever done no way i remember one brilliant it's so scary and there's one point halfway through i said to my manager do you realize quite how terrifying this is? And he said something to me like, but what a privilege. What a privilege to experience. You're not doing it. It's terrifying. It's so brave, though. You know, I think you're so brave because, yeah, you've stood up in front of audiences before. You sing in front of thousands of people.

But putting yourself out there, you know, when you're doing something that's kind of out of your comfort zone. And, you know, you've got 90 seconds live to impress what if you forget your steps what if you don't exactly all over you know you can't do it again and that would be where the terror like life i totally get it it's so brave it must be did you enjoy it a little bit i loved loads of it i loved loads of it but it must be funny for you when you see people that you know and they're in that state just like I know sorry

I just want to stroke them and feed them rub their back and it'll be okay I promise you'll be brilliant but I get the terror I did it once myself

for Children in Need with Anton we danced for Children in Need live and honestly I've never known terror like it my mouth was completely dry and then i understood why people you know there was come over to me and they're like

you can't get your teeth down you can't close your mouth anymore because their mouth is dry pure terror and nerves and i totally got it i was like you are so brave oh my goodness i have a whole new respect now for every celebrity who takes part it never gets normal but you were brilliant and a natural dancer so you were fab yeah well if we can go back to your lovely girls did you always want to be a mum was that something that was always important to you um do you know I always sort of there was a you know I had that sort of subconscious feeling that I would always be a mum but I wasn't one of those people who planned it you know I didn't see sort of little cute girly dresses and think one day when I'm a mum I'll dress my child in that I never thought that really it sort of took for me

it took meeting the right person which was Vernon I met him and I thought oh suddenly you know I can see it I can see children it sort of felt like it hadn't felt like the right time and I've been I don't know if that was just because I was being selfish living all over the world uh and traveling working the fashion industry it was never the right time because I was never settled in the right place with the right person then I met him and suddenly felt like okay this is and biologically I think I was like 31 then so my clock was probably going tick tick you better find someone um subconsciously again you know I wasn't even thinking about that consciously but it just yeah so I don't know I never planned being a mum but I guess I thought I don't know I just there was yeah I thought I would be one day yeah we never feel ready for

that do we really I mean I don't know but then it happens and then it's the perfect time never seems like the perfect time but then when it does happen it sort of is yeah I know and I think meeting the right person can be that thing where it's like ah I want to have babies with you actually yes and actually how many have you got Sophie four I've got five five yeah you are amazing it's enthusiastic isn't it five from ages 18 to yeah so Sonny's going to be 19 next month. 19? Oh, I see. Yeah, and then my little one is four. He turned four in January. Oh, amazing.

So it's quite a lot. Yeah, that's 20 years of indoor play centres and parks. Yeah, and nurseries and all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's just quite crazy. But I quite like the juxtaposition of having the old and young sometimes because like my so sunny did his first driving lesson the same week that mickey started nursery and i quite enjoy sometimes those like it's quite clunky but i like it i like the spread

yeah and it can be a brilliant help for you because you've got the perfect babysitter well that's the theory it hasn't manifested as much as i imagined that's the theory yes okay but um but when um actually when i had my third so you said you were 31 when you is that when you met vernon or when you had your baby i think i was yeah i was 31 when i met him yeah so i had my third when i was i think 32 33 and I would say that's the first time I was actually broody which is sounds odd because I I'd wanted to have the other two but I didn't experience that biological clock until that time that was when I was like I could feel almost like a shift in my brain and it became like all my thoughts kept going to that and I was like why do

I keep doing that it was almost a little bit annoying it's like you kind of all thoughts keep going towards like you'd see strangers babies and go I'm leg-tating and so did it always seem to you like but when I have my when I've had my babies I'm gonna keep working I mean I get from you such a strong work ethic I mean I mean I never thought about not working really, but then I would envy, but yeah, I remember being friends who sort of had a whole year off maternity leave and I'd think, oh, you're so lucky if you don't sleep tonight,

it's okay because you don't have to go to work. But obviously, you know, they have different challenges and, you know, they probably thought perhaps I was going to work. But it's just juggling and balancing it all really, isn't it, that we're always striving to do. I didn't think about not working because you know what was sort of I enjoyed it and I needed to work and uh I had a mortgage to pay and it it was also one of the I enjoy work you know it's sort of one of those things that define me and I've worked hard to get the work that I have and had at that time and so, I didn't really think about giving it up

because it was just something I enjoyed. But, you know, I probably would have worked more had I not been a mother, without a doubt, because I, you know, I just didn't want to miss out on all those lovely first moments that you have when you're a mum as well. I don't know whether it's the first PE day, the first sports day, you know, whatever it is,

and Harvest Festival, all those things. I just I just carol service and they're doing a speech and I couldn't not be there for that so I probably did work less because you know being a parent does demand that something that you are around um and so it was yeah it's just been juggling that ever since really juggling the work with the parenting and trying to make it all work yeah to show my girls that you can be a mother and you can work and you know you're trying to have it all you're really trying uh but uh yeah you do your best yeah you do your best and try and make it work and what about your parents would they did your mum work as well my mum did work yeah she yeah. She worked until retirement age, into the 60s. And she made it work, even when she'd come home on her work break

and sometimes give us lunch at home. Yeah, she always made it work, actually, and just got on with it and kind of made it look easy, I suppose. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but she didn't complain. I guess we live what we learn don't we definitely so whatever our parents do and that is the norm for us then I guess we tend to repeat those patterns ourselves yeah and also it helps give you permission sometimes to to have the time for your work and to raise and your kids and to feel like it's okay you know this is the family life I came from too and I have good relationships or you know I worked out all right or whatever it

may be you know it can kind of help I know I take a lot from my childhood and how my mum worked it definitely I don't think I would have been as brave actually if I hadn't had that ahead of me I don't think I could have been someone to maybe necessarily be that brave about cutting a new path if I hadn't had that example. I think that's brilliant as well. I think that's one of the greatest thing we can sort of give to our children is that kind of, you know, teach them to know that they, you know, not only their self-worth, but the power to chase their dreams and that, you know, it is possible. Whatever they want to do it is possible make them feel you know that possibility uh and if we sort of live it ourselves and sort of i don't know we just go for it and get on with it and just show them that you too

can do this you are capable and you know everything's possible you just got to put your mind to it and i think that is a real gift actually that parents can pass on to the kids definitely and can we have a little minute to talk about your lovely dad because he came up in so many of the interviews when I was researching you and I'm sorry to hear that I mean it must have been so extraordinary for you that he died so soon after you got married I know and he walked me down the aisle and he was determined he was sick at that point and he was absolutely determined to make it to our wedding and walk me down the aisle and he did and then he died while we were on honeymoon about 13 days later and that was oh gosh yeah that was that was awful but you know i'm great because he was such a brilliant dad and i

my greatest regret in life is that he was not around to meet his grandchildren because you know he would have adored them and i really oh yeah I just wish they could have met their granddad who's such a brilliant man but obviously you know it's it's what it teaches when we lose someone who has always been you know someone who is just such an integral part of our lives it's just we take for granted but they are one of our very pillars of existence when that pillar is removed and they're gone and it's just so final and you've never experienced that before because up until that point i'd lost grandparents but you know losing a parent was whole new like oh it was just it just is the it's huge it pulls around your feet

and you can't believe they've gone no and uh but what it does teach you is to really value you know life and that it is temporary and that we really have to seize it because and we have to enjoy every moment. Because my dad used to say to me, you know, we're here for a good time, not a long time. And we're a long time dead. And that's not to sound morbid. But, you know, he used to say it jovially with a joke, a laugh and a joke because he was always full of fun with a great sense of humor. But, you know, it stuck with me because it's true, isn't it isn't it you know yeah we don't know what's around the corner any of us and so it what what it taught me losing a parent was that I you know you've really got to appreciate now because none of us is forever and we've got to you know we've got to make the most

of every moment and just it taught me gratitude really more sort of gratitude for what you know for the gift of life that we take for granted but when you lose someone suddenly you realize actually it's not it's not forever it's not you know none of us are eternal and so we might as well have a good time while we're here that's true and also I think when I first I I'm sorry you lost your dad then I think you're losing a parent is huge and you know it's something that um you know we know one day it will happen, and it does. It's just like everything stops for a while. And I just think the continuation of just because they're gone doesn't mean they stop loving them.

And actually that legacy of love has become something that is informed where you're at now. And even though your girls didn't meet him, there will be a continuation of what he put in all around you that becomes part of their present and I think that legacy of the love that is created in that relationship is really significant I think that's like the the best thing that come out can come out of that the grief you feel so true is actually the continuation of that love yeah and that's what you find reassuring actually and that's what keeps you smiling the memory of them you know and everything that they gave you and all the gifts that they left that you didn't realize at the time that you were learning from them and what yeah you know what they sacrificed what they gave you what you look it's

just yeah it's just it teaches you all of that you know and it sort of reaffirms all of those things that you've sort of you know you might have taken for granted but no, they're gifts and we've got to be grateful for them. And also, if you say he's got a good sense of fun, that's maybe part of the childhood that your kids have had as well. So there's like ways that the strands continue, you know? It's true, isn't it? It makes up building, but it makes up part of you. And you pass it on to your own children and it's the cycle.

It is true. Yes, yes. Well, I'm glad we got to speak about him because he sounded amazing but I was also thinking for you that to get married and then be on honeymoon and then lose your dad and then have a baby the next year and then start strictly which becomes part of the next nearly 20 years all of that stuff is a lot that's that's a very intense period of time true yeah an awful lot happened yeah 2003 2004 yeah yeah that's a lot that's a lot and it's funny isn't it when we look back on that bit when we've got our first baby especially and life has gone whoop and then you think how did I have the energy to do all those things really true yeah when you're feeling all and actually you've done

it five times yes well that's yeah a level of as I say enthusiasm that's not for everybody it's amazing yeah no most energy also I think you've seen not just me being terrified on live telly but my mum because I think you and Vernon presented It Takes Two that my mum did as a duet show oh yes she was with Alexandra O'Neill and I was in the crowd oh my I actually you know what I said Strictly was most terrifying thing Paso Doble week particularly but one level up from that was the nerves I felt being in the crowd watching my mum about to do something oh I was I thought I was going to be sick actually. Really? Yeah, because I couldn't help her. I couldn't do anything.

No, no. And she was just after the, she was coming up first, and I think there was like, I don't know, VT showing or something, and I could hear her practicing on the stage over and over her opening line. Oh my gosh. And I just was thinking, please don't let this go wrong oh my goodness even now you can see I'm like clutching my face like the jaw yeah you're singing with Alexandra O'Neill oh my gosh she's a full legend no pressure yeah I know yeah wow was she terrified had she told you she was nervous oh yes definitely so nervous yeah oh my gosh yeah it's next level

she did well she did actually she got through it it went she didn't go out that week one of the judges was it the drummer from Police was it Stuart Copeland that was one of the judges

yes he was really horrible about her so if I ever see him he wasn't yeah no I will never

I'm like an elephant and he was a pussycat backstage I'm an elephant he was like the sweetest if I see him I get it I totally get it.

I totally get it. Stuart, how could you? He compared her to like a cat singing or something really awful. He did not. Not acceptable behaviour, Stuart. What? There was I thinking he was Mr Nice Guy. Maybe in real life.

Oh, no. That's so mean. I bet she was nothing like a cat. Nothing like a cat. No. No bet she was nothing like a cat. Nothing like a cat. No. No, she was a lovely, lovely singer. She's got a nice voice. Yeah.

What was the other thing else? So at the moment, what else is happening in your world at the moment? Obviously, you've got your new book, but what happens in this period of time before you hit summer and then it strictly starts and then it's Christmas? Well, I've been so busy with my book. Oh, my goodness. That's been like a year in the making and for it finally to come out, it's like, it's here.

Yeah, that's a big deal. It was like giving birth again. It's like a third child, I swear. It was like painful. It was painful because I had to put myself under house arrest to finish it. Do you know what I mean? Because I was constantly distracted. It took me about six months

to come up with the name um but uh the rest of town what now oh gosh lots really I've got um I've got a business as well I've got a swimwear company with my best friend Gail and we have built up from the ground from the kitchen table um a sort of swimwear resort line and we're really proud of it's called Naya Beach and we we launched it in a pandemic didn't know it was going to be obviously didn't know travel was going to be illegal when we brought out our range of swimsuits you can buy it to wear in your backyard because now you can't go on holiday um yeah it launched like literally summer 2020 bad timing but despite that the fact that holidays were then illegal um yeah it's gone on to sort of great success when we yeah we've um we've gone from strength to strength and we're really proud of

it so that takes quite a lot of my time because i'm now a genuine business woman like i literally you know we are we are emailing each other within the company from 5 30 in the morning the emails start till about 10 at night i tend to not look at my emails after nine I refuse that's very good good it's not I just won't take on your work emails from nine o'clock because otherwise that stops me sleeping yeah you know what I mean it gets in the way of like rest doesn't it yeah so I don't even look at my emails past that time um and yeah uh so I work on but I work on that a lot because when it's when you've got a business it doesn't sleep it doesn't work without you it doesn't sleep and someone always needs an answer from you but it's brilliant because you get to be creative and design stuff and you know I can see a swatch of fabric on a bag down I'm walking

down Portobello Road on a Saturday at the vintage market I'll see a fabric so I'll go oh that would be amazing on a caftan you know so you get inspiration of when you get to be creative and have this wonderful input which is that's exciting you know it's quite exciting um having worked you know in that fashion world for so many years my dear before i've gotten to television so it sort of feels like it's come full circle so that's fun takes a lot of time sound like i'm moaning but actually it's brilliant because doom it's no no i'm saying fantastic feedback and we're proud of it so that keeps me quite busy and then then everything else, we lie for it. I don't know, I'll be doing meetings.

I might do a voiceover. I might do a photo shoot. I might do whatever. Mum stuff, lots of mum stuff. In my mind, I'm just always mum. You know, it's the mum list that's on my phone diary. Everything, every hour I've got a mum chore. Book haircut, book dentist.

Make sure new shoes for this. You know, new football shoes for whatever. Phoebe's got into football. So, you know, the mom list is what keeps me mostly busy and sort of work, work is timed around that. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah.

Well, before I let you go, I just want to say thank you because I first met you, we first met a really long time ago. I think we met in something like, it might have been like 99, maybe? No way. Something like that, because it was when I was modelling, actually. We met, it was like a fanzine type of thing. And you were doing a photo shoot, not as a modelling thing, you were being interviewed. You were like the the celebrity

part of it and I was doing a little modeling shoot for them I don't remember exactly what it was but I remember you were really nice to me um and I was yeah I must have been like I think I was about 20 1920 and as you know modeling can be quite a lonely world actually yeah and quite often you don't really get don't really often get like spoken to directly like that often well that was my experience anyway it would be a kind of a right you're here turn up put these things on do this and then you can leave kind of thing and it was I just felt like sometimes a little bit a little bit invisible within the clothes but you took time to be kind to me and I really appreciate that and I've never forgotten how could I not you little sweetheart how could I not I used to give talks to the new faces when I was

modeling and I you know I was a bit long in the tooth I've been doing it for like 10 years at that point and I would do talks every week at my model agency to the new girls who just sort of started and they didn't you know they they were quite naive and they didn't know how to sort of go on the castings and how to sort of you know get from A to B and how to be when they traveled the world and what was so I would just give them sort of you know I give them little chats and I do these talks and I still meet girls now who were ladies now and they're like I remember when you did that chat on you know on the Fridayiday and i remember that you said this and it was brilliant because it really helped when i was traveling the world i was lonely and i find myself in a place where no one's bugging and yeah so that was i love that because you know you've got you've got to

share the love and the compassion because you're out there on your own aren't you in that world quite a lot like you say and it's quite scary at times definitely that's brilliant you just made me plan to Paris, cantering the streets, often lost in the suburbs somewhere. Yeah. So it was quite nice sharing their advice when I sort of lived it and done it, you know, because I got it. That's actually really, really kind of you and really supportive

because I think getting that sort of mentoring is something that's quite often absent in those experiences. I bet all those girls do you remember all that that's brilliant that's really lovely well I'm very impressed actually you've got so much going on and I can't believe you've managed to create a successful swimwear brand that started in summer 2020 I think that should be somewhere on the label like when you look inside like if it can work for summer 2020 it can work for summer 2020, it can work for always. Exactly. Because that's, like, amazing.

Yeah, that was the ultimate test. Thank you, honey. Well, I just love chatting to you. I think you are the biggest inspiration because you're a mum of five. I always say if I had one more child, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to leave the house. Again. No. So respect to you.

If you have five kids, you just start a podcast so you get to lock yourself in a small room perfect that's that's the clue and actually i love the fact the whole time we've been talking you've got that massive iron man the invincible iron man look at that yeah just you should put a little cut out of your face on his head boom thank you the birth of the power we're all wonder women right wearing that little invisible cape exactly have a lovely time Tess thank you so much thanks love lovely talking to you lots of love see you soon oh thank you so much to Tess for speaking to me. And yeah, she does actually look incredible.

So I think I probably do need to incorporate some of her health and well-being tips in my life. It's funny, I used to always not really have too much time for things like facials. And actually, I've got really bad with, I do, I keep active, but I'm not doing exercise classes like I used to but I'm wondering if maybe now that I'm like my mid-40s maybe it's a good idea to get back into something a bit more regular what would you recommend I'm sort of thinking about maybe doing like weight training type things just to kind of like build build a bit more strength no I do feel quite strong that I have to lift a four-year-old quite often I feel quite strong but I don't know I know a lot of

people where their backs go and that kind of thing I don't really want to be stuck I want to lift a four-year-old quite often. I feel quite strong, but I don't know. I know a lot of people where their backs go and that kind of thing. I don't really want to be stuck. I want to be able to do my jumping about on stage. That's what I want. I've got my first festival tomorrow. I'm off to Brighton to sing for a little festival called Foodies Fest, which is really cute. I've done them before.

And it's a bit of a sort of new, what's the word? It's a bit of a sort of new what's the word it's a bit of a not milestone that's too strong but it's a bit of a thing to be doing the first festival because I know I'll be doing them all year until sort of autumn really uh and I can't quite believe we've got around to that already I do think festival season is a bit longer now than it used to be when I first started gigging but even so it's like okay here we go and then yeah I've got lots of lots of lovely festivals coming up so if you're coming along to one I'm doing then give me a wave I'll give you one back and uh yeah hopefully the sun will shine that'd be nice but in the meantime have a really really lovely week and um thank

you as ever for finding me here uh sorry about the strange singing at the beginning but i was just in that kind of mood and any minute now i'm gonna be located and i'm gonna have to go and feed all these extra young boys i have in the house they're actually being really sweet i think it's going to be smooth sailing i feel like i should have a a little add-on bit I record tomorrow where I tell you how little sleep I've had because of the sleepover. But so far, I'm feeling quietly optimistic. I will promise to give you a little bit of a catch-up

as to whether my optimism was misplaced or not. All right, look after yourself and I'll speak to you soon. Thank you so much for tuning in i love talking to you and just having a bit of a ramble chat with you so thanks very much all right speak soon look after yourself see you soon bye Thank you. you