Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode: 95 Heidi Range

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Heidi Range is best known as a former member of the girl groups Atomic Kitten and then Sugababes. It feels like she was destined to become part of pop history from an early age. A good start was being born in the very musical city of Liverpool! She was part of a children's road show from the age of 12, with her and her friends performing songs such as Copacabana at all the social clubs in the area. She successfully auditioned to be part of Atomic Kitten aged 15, and later replaced Siobhan Donahy in Sugababes aged 18!We both reminisced about appearing on live weekend show CDUK, agreed how exciting that was, and how lucky we were to have that live telly buzz as part of our early careers.Heidi has two little girls, Aurelia and Athena, and has been happy to put her career on hold since becoming a mum, after years of living out of a suitcase as a pop singer. Heidi also talked very openly about having two miscarriages between her two daughters, the first being due to a 'blighted ovum', which she went through during the first lockdown. She is however massively grateful for having her two daughters and hopes they will have as close a bond as she has with her sister Hayley, who she describes as her best friend.She feels she's now just emerging from what she describes as her 'Mummy bubble', and is getting to a new stage where she's ready to remember who she was a little bit more.Heidi told me how she's just been a panel judge for Eurovision and revealed how secretive her involvement had to be, and how strict the judging conditions were on the night to make sure the judges' decisions were impartial. As she approaches her 40th birthday, she says she's ready for new projects. She's not 100% sure what they might be...though she did admit to more than a passing interest in Strictly. You heard it here first!Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey, so I'm speaking to you while I'm also trying to frantically do an Esther. I'm flying to

Mexico tomorrow and I've only just found out that we need an Esther for going to buy America. So me and the rest of the band are trying to do it and I'm on one of those websites and i've just tried to upload my passport photo and it's doing that processing thing with a little circle going round around and i've just got one of those feelings in my tummy that maybe i'm not going to mexico anyway never mind we can uh think about other things like this week's podcast and everything else that's going on i've got a slightly manic energy to me i feel i'm going to try not to transmit that to you because that's not what you need in life I have had a very busy week I'm not complaining this is not a complaint I am not moaning it's just an acknowledgement that with my album coming out uh various gigs I've been doing recording a couple of new podcasts um my eldest boy finishing school

my youngest finishing nursery my middle one finishing sats my other one needing his braces to be fixed you know i'm kind of like brained a little bit at capacity um it's all cool man it's all cool i'm sat here got the little wheel going around on the website life is flipping chill and actually I'm doing a really nice thing tonight um so I'm sitting here kind of half ready to go out half not because tonight I'm going to see the new play that Dan from my husband Richard's band The Feeling has written the music for it's um Brokeback Mountain it's obviously based on the film I think came out about 20 years ago now um about the two cowboys and their love affair and all the complexity of it and at first I thought it was a musical and I

thought the cowboys were going to sing to each other. And in retrospect, I think it's quite smart the way they're doing it, that it's a play that has a band on stage and they sort of provide the narration of what's going on. So I think that's going to be really lovely, actually, and very moving. So that's tonight. And then, yeah, tomorrow at the airport, hopefully, if this all works out. But never mind about that. I had a really lovely week because I've interviewed Heidi this week

Heidi Range so I first met Heidi actually probably around the time that Breakback came out in uh the early noughties when she became part of the Sugar Babes and fun fact she took over in the Sugar Babes that all you know the trio girl band as you know uh from Siobhan Donaghy who's one of my previous Spinning Plate guests so you know there's a nice band, as you know, from Siobhan Donaghy, who was one of my previous Spinning Plates guests. So, you know, there's a nice bit of serendipity going on with that. And Heidi has always been such a lovely, very smiley, warm person. I think you're going to hear her smile coming down the microphone because she's got that real warmth about her.

She has two little girls who are one and five. So her eldest is um at school now and she was talking actually about the fact that she hasn't really done much in the terms of work obviously she's been very busy raising her babies but she's sort of ready to kind of get back into herself now but actually when we talked more her work ethic and where she's come from is pure graft you know starting when she was barely into double figures in a local dance troupe in Liverpool and performing and singing in local pubs and clubs all the way through being part of Atomic Kitten scouted for a band called Scooch who actually represented the UK at Eurovision doing a solo project and then ending up with the Sugar Babes. There's been many, many phases

and chapters to Heidi's career. And I'm really excited to see what she's going to do next. Anyway, it was glorious to meet with her. I don't get what's going on in this website. The little spinny wheel is still there. Wish me luck, people. Anyway, let's listen to lovely Heidi

and I'll see you on the other side oh it's so nice to see you Heidi how are you I'm good thank you thank you for helping me it's another one those um times sometimes when I have people around to chat to them I feel like we should start recording from when you arrive because we've already been chatting quite a while and covered a lot of stuff. It's just really nice to see. I don't know when I last saw you, actually, but we bump into each other every so often, don't we? I know when we last saw each other.

Oh, you do? It was in Chiswick Park in lockdown when you was allowed to exercise outdoors. Yes! God, you've got good memory. Yeah. And also, what a crazy time. Yeah, well, we were it was like when you were allowed in groups of six outdoors or something yeah and i think we were

buying sausage rolls or sandwiches from the uh the kiosk in the park which in those days big day out yeah quite frankly massive day out um and just to cut to present day am i right that you've just been on the jury panel for eurovision yes that is so flipping cool how tell me about that experience um do you know what it it was um it was quite bizarre because i i was asked to do it which was a huge honor um but you wasn't allowed to tell anyone really yeah and you wasn't allowed to you know. Really? Yeah, and you wasn't allowed to, you know, comment on the Eurovision in the build-up. And Liverpool hosted it. So loads of people were asking me,

oh, are you coming home for the Eurovision? And in interviews I was getting asked about it and I had to just be a little bit, like, not interested. And what was disappointing about it, I thought we'd get to go to the arena and watch it, which we didn't. The jury has to go. Like, we were in a green room at the BBC in Manchester.

Wait on a minute. Wait on a minute. So the jury performance that they do on the Friday night before the live final on Saturday, you weren't in the arena? No. Because you've got to be so impartial. You've got to be impartial.

So we watched one of the semifinals. Yes. One of the semifinal rehearsals on the Wednesday. And we had to judge that. But then that was only as a backup marks if something went wrong with the audience. So that didn't count. But then on the Friday,

we went and watched the dress rehearsal of the final. And then, yeah, you have to, you know, rate them, which is really difficult when you're judging 25 acts. It's a lot. Yeah, that is a lot. I mean, you obviously have your top ones and your bottom ones, but the middle is quite tricky. But they did decorate

the room for us with some bunton and they got an indian takeaway for us and perfect um and it was a really nice panel so am i right in thinking as well that you're not allowed to talk to each other while the while you're watching you're allowed to comment on the performances but nothing that would influence right anybody else what about a bit of dancing to your favourites? I think we were all terrified. We were terrified to look at each other, say anything. Yeah.

And they actually said, yeah, you was like, it was like a really silent jury. Yeah. But we were terrified to do the wrong thing because, you know, it's quite strict. Well, it's a shame you didn't get to see Liverpool. I know.

I mean, I thought the arena was amazing. So good. And how they hosted it was incredible. The whole, I was there Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Oh, so you was there? Yeah, I didn't watch the live final though. I got back home and watched it here. But I soaked up as much of the atmosphere as I could.

And I was walking around Liverpool all day on the Saturday. I had a few hours to myself. I was pottying around. It was 18 degrees, blue sky, sunshine. And the whole Liverpool was in the best mood yeah everybody was so friendly because you you hosted a disco in uh Peter Jones didn't you John Lewis sorry I said Peter Jones because the one by me is called that yeah how was that yeah so I did that on the Thursday it was actually adorable loads of people came it was a really good atmosphere. We had a DJ, we had a glitter station.

Amazing. We just went for it. Then the next night I sang in the Eurovision Village just outside. Oh, fab. Which was awesome. And then I had a little job to do on the Saturday

and then I got home in the car and got all the way back here just in time. Yeah. And you don't have, I know you have to retain probably a bit of impartiality but just wondering

if you agree with me that cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha is one of the best pop records of this year flipping love of the finish entry i keep playing it to the kids and they're not quite receiving my enthusiasm but they will because i plan on playing it it's a good one before school get you up in the morning there's a few songs that i cannot get out of my head from me yeah um edgar allen edgar allen but that was catchy as well isn't it yeah i do you know the one i can't get out of my head yeah it's carpe diem they won which was that one um oh the ones it's just it's that little back and vocal just keeps going on in my head but they were they were like quite quite cheesy and playing up to the camera yeah I loved it me too I think it was

really joyful and I'm very excited you got to be a part of it yeah I did get asked one time years ago to well I say years it must have been like 20 20 no 19 2019 to do the judging thing but I had a baby that year and I wasn't allowed to bring him to feed him during the time that I'd be judging and even though I tried to convince him that he would be impartial they were like no you can't have anyone else with you so it counted me out but I think it's a brilliant thing you did that that's very cool and it's great you got to do it when it was in the UK I think it's wonderful I really enjoyed it really cool and what else have you got going on at the moment what are you working on at the moment I've not been working on much

I mean since I have my two girls I've been in this little mummy bubble yeah at home um which I've loved you know I've I've lived out of a suitcase for so many years when I have my girls I just wanted to be at home with them but my eldest has just started school and my little one's doing two mornings a week at nursery now and I've got a nice group of people around me who I trust with the girls and the girls are comfortable with so I'm emerging out of the bubble and wanting to get back out there and do some things for me yeah I'm 40 next week and I just feel like now's time to get a little bit of time back for myself as well very much relate to all of that I think it's when time to get a little bit of time back for myself as well.

Very much relate to all of that. I think it's when you've got a little, because your youngest is one, so it'd be two in August and then your other little guy's five, you said. So that time, that's such an intense period of time when they're that little. And I don't know about you, but when I had my first, it felt very much like I'd had my sort of life before and then there was this new chapter and I didn't um do any music really apart from a bit of writing between the

time I had my when he was born through till probably he was about four actually it took me quite a long time to kind of find myself again really yeah I can completely relate to that. I mean, it was a conscious decision. I did want to take time away and I don't regret it at all. Like when Aurelia went off to school last year, it had gone so fast. It makes me emotional thinking about it, but it was like, I thought, A, I was incredibly lucky that I was able to stay at home with her but I just thought it's flown by so quickly and I don't regret a single minute of just hanging out with my little mate every day because now I don't get the choice you know um so yeah sorry I it makes me I get emotional about my girls all the time but um so yeah and the little one's still tiny um so I still want to be

predominantly at home and around for her too but I just feel like I'd like to get a bit of me back as well and my husband has always encouraged me to go and do things for myself and I've struggled with that since having the gales that he'll always say go away with the gales for the weekend or you know do this and I'm like are you just saying that so I say to you yeah go to Ibiza is this a trick yeah because I just I've never really wanted to leave them but this year one of my friends had a big birthday and I went to the Cotswolds for two nights and I did come back like a new person and even last week when I went to Manchester for three nights for the Eurovision I almost levitated back through the door after

being away and having a few days to myself able to just reply to messages yeah have a lay in have a hot coffee do something that was about me not you know just being their mum so um yeah I feel like I'm just getting to a new stage where I'm ready to to remember who I was a little bit more oh I think that's so brilliantly summed up actually and I I think you've when you said about the lion and the coffee and replying to messages I think you've kind of summed up the sort of for me the like loophole that my work gives me really because obviously there's a bit where I do what I do but actually it's all the sort of um peripheral stuff that gives me that headspace. And without that, I've sort of struggled quite a bit with, I feel like I'm a good mum, actually. I think I kind of need a bit of that time when

I've sort of had time to think about other things to make me engage again here. But it did take me years, actually, to really feel like I could start to feel what that looked like to me. years actually to really feel like I could start to feel what that looked like to me I mean I was looking at your career I was thinking you know it's not entirely dissimilar to mine in some of the the timeline of it but you were doing music from really young and lots of different incarnations of it and always in the pop thing and it's very heady and you're saying about living out of a suitcase and when you sort of reflect back on that does it feel like a previous life or does it feel like it's still something you see as your future as well it absolutely feels like a different life and it's not something I ever really think about you know um I was at a children's party on

Saturday and one of the school dads came over to me and he went, I'm so sorry. He went, I didn't know you was in the Sugar Babes. And I was like, what are you apologising for? And he was like, but I didn't know. And I was like, it's okay. Like, it's not something I think about myself really, because it was so long ago in a way. But it does feel like a different life. But when I am reminded of it and think about it

you know it brings back happy memories and I'm proud of it and I and I actually you know can now go god wasn't that amazing you know yeah and so much success and that must have been a very heady experience that whole thing like really just a real roller coaster of just so many hit records and working really hard. And there's probably bits of it that are really glorious. Think of other bits you think, quite nice. I don't need to do some of that now. Do you know what?

Like there was obviously ups and downs throughout that journey, but I don't really, when I think back on my time with the group, I don't really think about those times. I just look back on it with fondness group I don't really think about those times I just look back on it with fondness really and all the amazing things we did do and I think also you know we were young girls and we're we're women now so you you kind of you have a little bit more compassion for yourself and the others and you go gosh like look look what you was dealing with yeah at that age um yeah so I look back on it with with fond memories really rather than the negative stuff yeah and I

think it's a lovely thing to say about looking back with compassion about things when you realize you were dealing with a lot because actually I think as we I mean I'm a bit older than you I'm 44 but I think as you when you look back on all the things you did as you say so young and same with me and sometimes it can be a bit like oh yeah now I realize I was only like 21 or 22 or whatever those you know those little even younger maybe dealing how so what what's the kernel of it what were you doing when you were younger that made you want to go into music because it seems like that was always something you were destined to to do um I mean Liverpool is such a musical city most of the the children I was friends with you know we all went to dance school we all went to sing and we all went to drama that's what I did every single night after school and it's what I did every

weekend I mean I was in a children's road show and we used to play the um the social clubs and the pubs every weekend we did a cabaret show so we'd be doing coca cabana in in like this random corner pub you know but but I loved it I lived for it you know I'm just trying to picture that by the the way. I'd be doing all this. The cobra. Yep, with the feathers on your head. What age are you at this point? I was probably 12, 12, yeah.

So you can deal with any environment, basically. You can perform anywhere. You know, like, you was fixated on what the set list was going to be each weekend who was going to get the big numbers he was you know I always wanted to do like the the Celine Dion number or Leanne Rimes and um so I always did that and then I went there was a theatre school in Liverpool um that I I didn't go to the full-time school. We couldn't afford to go there, but I used to go and do lessons there of a weekend.

And then one day they were approached by some producers who were putting a band together, which was Atomic Kitten. So I went for the audition for that. I was still at school. I was 15 then and I got the the audition for that. I was still at school. I was 15 then. And I got the part in the band. So I was in Atomic Hitting with Kerry Toner and Liz McClarnon. You were 15?

I was 15, yeah. So how was that actually working? So you're at school by day and then doing that, what, so evenings and weekends? Yeah, so evenings and weekends I'd go into the studio. But the girls would tend to record in the day because they they left school and I'd go in after school and then um we did a few gigs but then I got a phone call from some producers in London who I'd auditioned for when I was 14 and I'd lied about my age at this audition you had to be 17 and when I I remember going in it was at Dan Sattick Studios and they said you're you're not 17 are you and I think I cried and

said no I'm 40 and they said look we you know we'll hear you but we'll have to keep you on file and it transpires I think that audition was for the band Scooch. Oh, yes. Who represented the UK. Yeah, the UK, wow. But then when I turned 17, they called me and it was Stock Aitken who were the producers and they wanted me to come down and produce me as a solo artist. And so I left Atomic Kitten and started doing the Stock Aiton music and then

I went to see a music lawyer because they asked me to sign a contract and she was the scouser and she was also the manager of Sugar Babes and she convinced me to leave them and go with her again as a solo artist and then a few months later Siobhan left the group and she asked me to come to London and meet the girls and I did an audition and then uh two weeks later I was on CD UK so it was just it's a bit it was a real um strange pathway into the industry, but it was what I always wanted to do. Yeah, you don't, that determination of turning up to an audition at 14 when you're supposed to be 17 shows me the intent, the ambition there. That's incredible.

And what amazing, all those touchstones are things that everybody's everybody knows you know even like scooch but stock aching atomic kitten these are all things like sliding doors really isn't yeah crazy but actually that is unique because some people might just get one opportunity with something but to keep you know there's obviously something in the kismet of just like something's going to work out one of these times just getting the right balance um and the right group of people at the right time serendipity such a huge part of what we do isn't it yeah all those things coming together and when it's so how old were you then by the time you got to the sugar babes uh 18 18 yeah oh my goodness you'd already done so much that is crazy. How exciting.

I mean, that whole thing, that whole world, that CDUK time. I mean, nowadays, the pop scene, obviously music is still huge, but we don't have that whole, like the TV programmes that you used to do on every weekend and all of that. We're lucky we got to experience that, I think. It was so fun, wasn't it? It really was. Live telly. Yeah.

CDUK. Do you remember when it came out out the ad break and you'd be stood there like i remember one time going on there i had a single called get over you and i was in my first position with these four dancers quite nervous and one of the dancers just suddenly went oh i've forgotten how the dance routine goes and then it was like here we go yeah it was so so ludicrous and funny um I mean I do sometimes think would I just have the fear if I was put in that situation now like you know you go how did I do that like I know but isn't that that is I think that fear and thinking things through a different way happens when you get older yeah like I get way more nervous or worried about things that I never used to before I mean like heights I now got a bit of a vertigo I never was I used to go up on roller coasters and all sorts and I'm a bit like but I just think that creeps

in and when you look back especially from where you're at now where for a few years now you haven't had to put yourself in this really quite terrifying thing where your senses are so alert you're so focused but they don't happen in oblivion it's not like someone would literally just be like right here's the mic on you go they'd be like that build-up process so if and when you want to return to it yeah you'll get match fit yeah and I think I think it does come back it's like there's a part of you that, you know, comes alive when you perform, isn't there? You know, it is terrifying.

I remember even with the band, I didn't have, I wouldn't have stage fright, but I'd go out and then say, halfway through the gig, I'd go, oh, my God, look at all these people. And I'd be having a little conversation with myself on stage, like, you're in the middle of the set yeah in the middle of your tour yeah get get a grip yeah yeah you've got to finish the show but it wouldn't be like as I was going on it'd be like in the middle of a performance I know exactly what you mean you'd be suddenly like seeing everything in in real like real terms again like oh this is really me this is what's happening right now those

people are watching me I've got to finish the song. We've got to keep the show going. Yeah, it's almost like you sort of go hot and cold for a second. Like, whoa. And then you have to get on with it. Yes, you do. I mean, I obviously had a bit of time where I wasn't performing, but it was quite a lot.

My eldest is 19 now, so it's hard for me to remember what that felt like. But how have you experienced it with putting that side of yourself on hold for a little while in what sense the performing and the the music because if you've been doing it since you were copacabana world 12 let me let me dance for you that's a long it's been part of who you are for such a long time yeah i mean I I listen to music a lot and I sing around the house all the time mostly Disney songs now with the kids um but I do miss singing I love singing you know it's part of it's part of me um I I think I what what made me miss it more was as my little ones getting older she's starting to get into more and more music and she loved loves little mix and um her godfather got us tickets

to take take her to see them at the O2 and he used to how we met how I met him was he was my first dance partner on our first Top of the Pops performance. Amazing. And then he became our choreographer, but he's Aurelia's godfather. God, that's very lovely. Yeah, and so we both took her to the O2 to see them. And it was quite funny because we were watching them

and he was like, does it make you want to get up? And I was like, yeah, a little bit. And I was like, does it make you want to get up and I was like yeah a little bit and I was like does it make you want to get up because he's not dancing anymore and he was like yeah and it was that you know it was that oh when I go to shows you you kind of want to grab the mic don't you don't have a go um and also like there's a part of me that would love to show her what mummy can do you know I'd like well both of them I'd like to do stuff where they could see me do things now that would inspire them and make them proud as they get older too yeah and actually we I think you know as you and I and our peers have grown up we have got that bit now where it's like doing people doing you know women doing

what they do with their kids and showing them and that sort of next generation feeling and actually women doing really well and really feeling good about themselves in their 40s I've actually really enjoyed I know you're about to turn 40 next week so just as a you know indication I think it's really nice time actually because you do feel a lot of that kind of um self-doubt has kind of fallen away just I feel like a lot more relaxed about things and just enjoying things in a quite selfish way of like actually I'm just having a lovely time yeah in a way I don't think I quite felt as liberated maybe until now it's just been really lovely I feel the same I mean I'm really excited about turning 40 I mean it's a privilege to be alive, isn't it? It is. But I think I feel less self-conscious.

I worry less about what people think of me. I guess you just focus on the more important things, you know. I feel incredibly lucky to have a lovely family, touch wood, we're all healthy. You know, life is good. And if opportunities come my way now it is you know it's about embracing them and not panicking and worrying and worrying about if you're a size 8 or a size 14 and you know all the stupid things you worried about when you were

younger yeah it kind of falls away doesn't it it? Yeah. It just doesn't seem. And actually, I don't know about you, but I feel a bit more respectful of what my body's been capable of now in a way I didn't when I was younger at all. Just being able to, I don't know, run about and get done what I need to get done and feel quite sort of strong in myself.

I don't think I ever thought about myself in those times when I was younger. No, I think you're so judgmental on yourself when you're younger. Yeah. Whereas now it's, for me, it's about health you know yes exactly healthy for my kids yeah being here as long as you can exactly for them yeah and I agree with you as well that getting older is a privilege all of that I've really sort of sees all that I think that's brilliant well if we could talk a

little bit about your your girl so did you always want to be a mum I did yeah I mean I always say that the two things I always wanted since I was a little girl was one to be a singer and two to be a mum so I feel incredibly lucky that I've I've ticked both of those boxes um they're my two biggest dreams come true and uh and obviously my gales are my you know the thing i'm most proud of yeah i know it's really like radiating off you that's that's really lovely and are you from a big family have you got i know i'm there's just me and my sister which is actually really not my sister's my best friend and um we're still incredibly close even when I went to Manchester last week she came to stay with me for the three days oh really oh that's

lovely we got to hang out together which was really nice that is nice um so it's it's funny that I've ended up with two girls and um I really hope that they can have the same bond that me and Hayley have got yeah no I'm sure they will, actually. I think that thing of growing up and having a shared childhood is just such a big thing, isn't it? But I think also, I don't know if your mum or your family did this, but my mum kind of imparted to me and my siblings the importance of us keeping in touch.

She's kind of made it not something we just take for granted, but we have to be quite active about it that makes sense yeah we we were always told you know you always have your sisters back that's your best friend yeah and that's you know that's how we were raised and that's how I'll raise my girls as well yeah and I'm so pleased that we've got we've got that bond it's you know it's the nicest thing in the world. Yeah, it really is. It's really special. And I think, yeah, my mum will like, I don't know,

send a message going like, your brother's, I don't know, doing this today. Can you just send him a little good luck or something like that? So she kind of makes us quibble. I hope to do that with my kids as well, actually. So I think it's quite easy, isn't it, for people just to kind of let relationships drift. But if you're kind of, I don't know,

it's just definitely been passed on to us that that's not an option no no yeah and I was reading about um yeah I think you I don't know if you put it on your Instagram or did interviews about it but you were talking about after you had your first baby and you're having a second baby and you really sadly had a miscarriage during lockdown yeah what was the reaction like for you from talking about that publicly um you know really positive feedback like some really lovely messages from from other women who've gone through it I mean the whole reason I decided to to speak about it was I think even though my husband was incredibly supportive and you know it was his loss too it's quite a lonely thing to go through because it's your body and

no one else really knows what that feels like as you're feeling all those symptoms and I just found it quite a lonely thing to to go through so I thought if I can speak about it and someone else can go oh yeah you know I feel like that and and also when it happened I spoke to a lot of friends about it and they go oh that that happened to me too and there were so many of my friends who've sadly had miscarriages um it's so common and I just think it's it's a good thing to talk about if it can help support anyone absolutely no I really applaud you for that Heidi and I think I think the the way we handle it in general and the conversations that surround miscarriage have changed massively even in the time since I had my first baby, because I feel like now everybody's a lot more

open about, as you say, things like the loneliness and how it affects you and the impact and the sadness and the need to just be tender with yourself at that time. And yeah, I think there was a time when people, I mean, previous generations, definitely when it was just very much not spoken about, swept under the carpet. carpet and I think I think all those conversations are so important and as you say I mean so many people go through it it's something I've experienced loads of my girlfriends but I think that solidarity and being able to share it that counts for a lot I mean so much about that whole process of I don't know the times when you want to have a baby or when something hasn't gone right

or when you're worried about something, particularly when you deal with baby loss, I think it can feel really isolating and you can't help but go back over things and was it something I did? Did I do something wrong? And then trying to sort of come to terms with it. So I think having chats about it can only be a good thing, really.

Yeah. I mean, I was lucky enough to have had Raylia first and falling pregnant with her was very easy I guess and really straightforward so um you know it was a case of ignorance is bliss when when I had it but then I had two miscarriages between her and Athena. And so I was lucky enough to go, look, you've got a healthy child there. But when I had the first miscarriage, it was bizarre because it was a thing called a blighted ovum. And so obviously I did a pregnancy test. It was positive.

I was getting all the symptoms. Even on my way to the scan you know I was throwing up I was having cravings you know all the classic symptoms and and I never forget I went in for the scan and and the sonographer just said I'm I'm really sorry but there's no baby there and I was like what do you mean and she was like you're pregnant but you're not pregnant and I it just I'd never heard of it and I was like so were you saying like I've made it up or you know I don't understand um and it's basically when you do fall pregnant but the embryo doesn't develop but that was a really hard thing just keeps going through the body carries on

as though you're pregnant so um this uh the sack continues to grow nothing um is it the sack i'm forgetting all the specifics uh it wouldn't be the sack the um like your your womb is still growing and everything's the ut uterus grows, but the sac is empty. That must have been so devastating. And then people were going, so like a phantom pregnancy? And I was going, it's not a phantom pregnancy, because you was pregnant. I don't, I mean, it's quite, I mean, I still had to go in

and have the operation for them to remove everything because the miscarriage didn't then happen naturally because we were in lockdown with that first one and they said you can just wait for it to naturally happen but it didn't so my symptoms continued for the 12 weeks and then I had to go in for the op. But it was hard to get your hair browned. She was like, did I make it up? You know, like. And I think also at that time as well, because you're thinking,

sometimes your brain starts thinking, but I still want to have a baby. And now I have to wait for this to, I can't even do anything. I'm sort of stuck in this situation where my body still thinks it's continuing with something. Your hormones are all over the place yeah I mean that must have been and you're reading things on google and you're

thinking maybe maybe it just hasn't grown that big yet and when I go back it will and yeah you know there's a there's still a chance I know but I I've got two lovely girls and I know I'm very lucky because I've got friends who can't carry children. So yeah, I'm not complaining. No, I didn't perceive it that way at all. I just think I was really impressed with how you spoke about it. And thank you for letting me talk about it with you now because I think it's just something that's so common and I think there'll be people who listen and think, oh yes, that's happened to me. And it with you now because I think it's just something that's so common and I think there'll be people who listen and think oh yes that's happened to me and it's reassuring and I

think as you I think I read a quote from you he said as soon as you get that pregnancy test your brain can't help you sort of move into a different lane of your life and you picture okay there's going to be this person here by then and this will be happening a year from now and having to sort of wind that back yeah it's a big deal and as I said I've experienced something similar so I do know that that feeling and it's yeah it's a very sort of private sadness at the time but I think talking if it feels right then it is right definitely sorry you've been through it too thank you but like you I feel really you know grateful for the family I have and I think we all know we've always got friends and people have gone through fertility issues and I grew up with the backdrop of my mum trying very hard to have a baby after my sister

and I say this as something she's spoken about publicly she ended up going through 10 miscarriages during my teenage years so I thought I think in my family I'm quite that's you know I've just seen fertility fertility issues in lots of different dimensions. So, yeah, it's something I'm kind of familiar with, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm very happy that you do have your two little girls. Thank you. So you've spoken about how your husband's been encouraging you

to think about the next thing and you want to do something for yourself. Have you got any idea what shape this takes? I'm open to lots of different things. I mean it's only I'm only just starting to get my head around it but there's a few shows that I'd love to do you got any favorites strictly oh yeah it's my favorite yeah I mean you've you've obviously experienced it yeah I mean it's just magical isn't it yeah I cry watching it every year as soon as that opening tune comes on I get goose pimples I just I love the magic of it yeah I just watch the dancers and I think I'd love to just have the opportunity to learn those dancers wear those costumes I'm pretty sure that would be

something you could um they would probably bite your arm off if you do that. That would be my dream show, actually. I think, let me make some calls. Yeah, and also, I think my little one would get quite excited watching Mummy do that. Yeah. Oh, it's like a fantasy world. It's like eating all the sweets

you want to eat with no one telling you to stop. It's like everything bejeweled and extra and the live band and the dancing. It's like, woo! It's like eating all the sweets you want to eat with no one telling you to stop. It's like everything bejeweled and extra and the live band and the dancing. It's like, woo! It's like Willy Wonka. But I mean, I could imagine it's terrifying as well. Literally the most terrifying thing I've ever done. But yeah. That'd be so cool.

That would be my dream show, actually. But, you know, I'd like to do some more singing. I'd like to do some more singing I'd like to do some presenting I'm just open to to new possibilities and and doing a few more things for me and when you think of it do you feel excited about it yeah yeah especially like you know just like I say going away last week and doing a little bit of work on my own I come alive in a in a different way yeah you know um it's like waking up to a bit of yourself yeah yeah for me it's been hibernating a little bit yeah because I think that early years bit when they're small it's so people talk a lot about your kids personality

coming out as they get older but I always think as a parent your personality comes out too and you start working out what kind of mum you want to be and what things are important to your family and which bits you want to try and, you know, exaggerate with them and which bits you're thinking, well, you know, let's try and, you know, what is our family about? What are our values? But then when they get to three, four, five, it's quite a good time to start thinking as they go back to, you know,

start school and all this, like, okay, what else is out is out there it's quite exciting particularly for someone like you that's grown up with it I think and how do you think your mum felt about you when you were performing and you're so little and would you how would you feel if your girls were doing Copacabana at 12 um I think the Copacabana thing at 12 is now I think it's a bit odd um I probably wouldn't want the gales doing that i don't think it's that odd i grew up with something called mini pops have you seen did you ever what that was now that was weird that was the older that was in the 80s they had kids who probably between the ages of about 8 and 14 and they'd wear makeup and do whatever they're like the big songs were of the day like the little girls with lipstick and things and they perform them sometimes like a little bit flirty but I was obsessed with it and then

suddenly my parents were like you're not allowed to watch that anymore but that was all I wanted to watch was mini pops yeah I I would I mean I won't even let my daughter put makeup on you know she'll say oh mummy can I can I try your makeup I'm like like, no. You're five. No, absolutely not. I want to keep them as young as possible for as long as possible. Because, you know, you want them to have their innocence and I don't want her watching slightly older things.

But I want her, she's got the bug. Aurelia's got the bug. I mean, we had this thing at school last week, which was called a music petting zoo, where they go in and they try all the instruments out and then they can take up a lesson next year. And the whole way around, she was like, Mummy, I want to do singing.

And I was like, yeah, baby, but, you know, you could try an instrument and we can sing together at home. No, I want to do singing lessons like you, Mummy. So she's, and every night she comes home from school it's matilda the musical all night she's jumping on the sofa she's watching herself in the mirror the little ones dancing watching her so at the moment she's definitely got tendencies to be um following my career path rather than my husband's. He's a property developer. Oh, no, come on.

What we do is way more fun. But I just want them to do... No offense to your husband. Yeah. I just want them to be who they want to be. Yeah. I'm not going to try and push her in any direction. Nah, I don't think it works any way, really.

I think just let them find their own way. But I think for my kids, I've always said, I don't mind if they don't work in music, but I just want them to get as much out of it as I do in terms of an emotional thing. Music's always been such a support to me, and you singing around the house is like a really big tonic, and it just makes me feel better, so I hope they give that.

I realise while I'm talking to you that actually not that long ago, I interviewed Siobhan from the Sugar Babes. So I was thinking it'd probably be quite odd if I didn't ask you how it feels that they're doing their thing again. I mean, she was, obviously Siobhan was away from the Sugar Babes when you were doing it. It's like a very strange setup, your band, by the way. But a lovely one, but just so funny, the moving parts. But she was saying in that time that, you you know she went off and did her solo thing but now coming back together she feels actually a little bit like you were saying that sort of

compassion because you know I think she and Keisha and Mitya had really been through highs and lows when they were working together and the bit where she left and all the sort of dynamic of that but now as adult women they'd kind of come back to it and we're actually being really kind with each other yeah and supportive but I don't know I haven't had the experience of seeing a music project I was involved in then being back on the scene and hearing those songs again what's it like to see them do stuff I am I mean I'm I'm happy for them yeah you know they they were torn and together for many years before they, you know, acquired the name again. They were MKS and they were touring and they were doing the songs for a long time. So, you know, I know they've had more success because they've acquired the name again.

But they're doing what they've done for years. And, you know, I'm happy for them. It's nice that the songs are still out there. You know, I'm proud that I was part in the success of the songs. So, you know, I wish them well, you know. No, I think it's really lovely because I think, obviously, I can see from the sort of press angle, there's always that thing, and they've done this for Time Eternal,

of trying to make women sort of take bits out of each other. they've done this time eternal of trying to make women sort of take bits out of each other but actually I think that there's so much um generosity from all of you about this sort of shared history and all the things that have contributed to where things are at and obviously you got out of it things that you adored but you're in a different place now you want to do something different so it's quite it's sort of like a nice feeling of like yeah I'm at peace with that and for them go and do it absolutely yeah there's no there's no hard feelings on on my part um and I've you know I don't know Siobhan I've I've met her maybe twice and she was lovely she was a really nice girl and I wish them well yeah exactly and well and they wish you well I know because I saw Mitya saying about giving you flowers I thought you know like the metaphorical give you flowers

of like everything that you contributed to that I think it's really lovely I think it's like it's sort of like quite maybe I'm being a bit twee here but I feel like this sort of nice feeling of us all kind of growing we've all grown up do you know what I mean like hopefully you would hope we have yeah yeah but also I think now that we're older and able to talk as well about some of the bits where it's tricky or some of the graph that goes in behind the scenes, it's like, you know what I mean? It's not like it's all a bit more kind of like the rough and ready of us

or just kind of supporting each other and trying to get done. We all know it's not the easiest job, but we're trying to do the things we can do and find our feet and yeah what i mean yeah just keep onwards everybody just pushing on it's like that's if there's momentum that's a good can only be a good thing yeah and and it's also support like you say supporting other women like yeah i i champion women doing well you know yeah um i'm a girl scale yes i i don't want to tear someone down i want to build someone up yeah and also being part of something successful that you were a huge part of in the most successful chapter can only be something that contributes to where you're

at now as well actually do you know what i mean yeah the success they're having now is still a shared thing because you're part of their story yeah and part of those songs so it's all about you basically okay oh well it's been so lovely to talk to you I have to say you've always been

so warm and smiley I feel like when I told people I was going to speak to you today everybody's very fond of you Heidi which is a nice thing

that's a nice thing to say it's true though it's true it's been a joy to hang out with you and please keep me up to speed with whatever happens next That's a nice thing to say. It's true, though. It's true. It's been a joy to hang out with you. Oh, thank you for having me. And please keep me up to speed with whatever happens next.

I'm excited to see what you do now. Yeah, thank you. It's exciting. Oh, how lovely was Heidi. So nice to spend time with her. And how cool to hear about the Eurovision jury process. I enjoyed that very much. And I very much hope to see her on Strictly very soon.

I think she'd be wonderful on that. If you weren't curious about... Sorry about the music in the background, by the way. That's Kit. Kit, can you turn it down a tiny bit, darling? Please? Seriously? He's just shrugging at me.

He just shrugged at me. He's 14. Thank you. Turn it down. Yeah, if you want to know the status of my Esther application, are you curious about that? I've done it all. I submit it all. And I'm now, it says it's pending a result within 72 hours.

So let's just hope that they really mean like five minutes, please. Otherwise, it's going to be a little bit of a problem. Anyway, on distress, I am not worried. I'm sat on a sofa. My little cat tighters. Meow. Can you hear him purring? Can you hear that?

There he is. Oh, yes. Anyway, he's chilling me out. And tonight I get to see the love story of the cowboys, so everything will be all right in the end. Actually, I seem to remember it's a sad ending, so maybe that's not true. Anyway, wish me luck.

Tell you what, when I get to Mexico, I'll have earned that margarita. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to Guadalajara, and apparently near where that area, the region, there's a town called Tequila. Get me there. Anyway, I will love you and leave you.

I'll let you know all about how it went when I speak to you next week. And thank you as ever for lending me your ears. It's funny, when this gets published, I hopefully will be the other side of the gig I'm about to do and still in Mexico, but about to come home. Funny idea. Won't be here.

My cat might be where I am, but I won't be where I am. Anyway, yeah, have a lovely lovely week whatever you're up to and see you soon that's love bye bye adios amigos Thank you.