Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 162: Featuring Kerry Fraser

Episode Date: March 28, 2019

On Thursday's episode of Spittin' Chiclets for the first time ever, the podcast will feature a former NHL referee and arguably the most decorated of all time in Kerry Fraser. Fraser joins the podcast to discuss his entire career and some of the crazy stories along the way. Including fights with Mario Lemieux, Theo Fleury, the famous 1993 Gretzky-Gilmour incident and a bunch more. The guys also talk about some league news, including the Paul Byron- Mackenzie Weegar fight, the Jon Cooper contract extension and tons more.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello everybody, welcome to episode 162 of Spittin' Chicklets, presented by New Amsterdam Vodka. Let's say hello to the gentlemen this season. Let's go to Ryan Whitney first, the wit dog. What is up, brother? the gentlemen this season. Let's go to Ryan Whitney first, the wit dog. What is up, brother? What up, what up? Not much in Secaucus, New Jersey. Just sitting around in the old residence inn.

It's nice to see you guys. We have plenty of stuff to talk about, so let's get crack-a-lacking. Look at you, Snoop Dogg. Biz Nasty, you're up next. Paul Bissonette, our other co-host. What's going on? How about that fucking win by the Coyotes? And if you think I'm not going to be talking about it halfway through this podcast,

you guys are dead wrong. And if you don't like it, turn the fucking station because the wagon's back, baby. Fucking howl a part two over here. Finally, last but not least, our producer, Mikey Grinelli. What's up, boys? The Sunk shirts have arrived, and they're flying off the shelves. Dude, Jans is going to want the money for this. You know it doesn't matter how many.

I already texted him. I already texted him the shirt. I texted him the shirt. I was like, what's up? I'll grab you Ichiro once. That's our sushi place friend I'm wondering. He's like, I'll take the money or Sunk. Sunk you.

Well, he's going to have to cease and desist us, so he better get his lawyers on it. Yeah, we got tons of requests. His lawyers love a bat. Tons of requests. A bat mask. Yeah, we're getting tons of requests because we dropped our Lady, our Blessed Lady of the Unguided Cage shirts, too,

for the degenerate puck line gamblers out there. Grab one of those, too. But a lot of people asking for songs, so they'll be out there. Wait, so is this an RA design? Because the last time you designed this shirt, I believe we sold four of them. Which shirt was that? All right, Hamilton. Well, that was my own thing I designed years ago.

Then we released another version. Here, I have no idea how many we sold. I was never told. So I don't know if it was four, 400, 4,000. I don't know. I think the under over is four, right, Grinnell? I love how you call it under over.

That could not be the dumbest thing. I was told you have sold 19 shirts so far, the blessed lady of the Lungardi cage. Oh, that's not bad. That's 19 more than we didn't have. You know, something. Which shirts have you designed, Biz, that sold well? Oh!

Who? Who? Who? Let me think here. World star! Well, I was too busy fucking trying to grow this podcast. Speaking of fighting, back in January, Montreal's Paul Byron was suspended three games for charge in Florida's McKenzie Wiega when his kind of leaping high hit slammed the Panthers'

defenseman's head off the glass. Wiega missed a handful of games due to the resulting concussion. Byron apologized for injuring him. Wasn't his intention. Uh, well, Tuesday night in Montreal, Wega exacted his pound of flesh when he pummeled Byron, caught him with a thunderous left uppercut that dropped the Canadian and abruptly ended the scrap. Byron was pretty wobbly leaving the ice. And even Wega winced a little when he caught the replay from the penalty box. Uh, he said after the game, he asked Byron if he wanted to fight. Abs forward, wanted to go. It was definitely both guys willing to go.

So what do you guys think? All right, I was just going to ask, did John Grisham write that for you? Holy fuck, that was pretty impressive. Thanks, guy. Did it not sound like an author wrote that? Yeah, it was good. It was good. I have a couple things about this.

Okay, so it turns out really shitty ending to the whole situation because montreal's trying to make the playoffs byron's going off the ice like a baby deer he's obviously already not playing tonight against columbus the issue being that people are upset right and you know his agent came out and said some things about the code. To me, this is hockey, dude, the entire thing. All you guys, I'll tell you right now, Byron had a dirty hit, okay? Now people say he apologized. He got suspended.

That's the punishment. Well, you know what? The guy he hit in the head is a tough bastard, and he says, I don't give a fuck if he got suspended 30 games and apologized 10 times when i play him again i'm gonna say let's go i'm fighting you you just hit me in the head last time we played i want to fight you i don't give a shit about the other stuff and then credit to byron because he is not that's out of his weight class but credit to him that's having some balls that's gonna that's that's a that's a that's a move that got to respect no matter what happens in that fight

because to stand up and say and be accountable for your actions and say, okay, you know what? You're right. I'll fight you. You're right. It was a dirty hit. And he did that, and it sucks the way it ended. But that entire situation is hockey.

You throw a dirty hit. You get asked to answer the bell. You answer the bell. And what happened sucks, but I don't want that stuff to to ever change we talked about the fighting when it's all set up glad it's gone that that stuff right there that that that's hockey and to me it sucks what happened but i think that'll never change and i really hope it never changes i mean when i'm on your side of it i mean a shocker to everyone listening but uh you know i think that anyone listening is either on one side of that or the other i don't think anything you just said

is going to change anyone the other side's mind but i lived and breathed what you just said i think that byron probably learned a valuable lesson and he'll never even consider hitting a guy in the head again not only did he get get suspended, he lost some pay. And then he had to fucking, he had to step up and answer the bell, which you said fucking rights to him. It sucks how it ended, but that's how she goes. And I'll tell you right now, the one moment like, Hey, we are. And by the way, everyone don't think that him and the Achari thing isn't still in his mind. He's furious about that. He's a tough prick, but he's going into that thing pissed off to begin with, let alone thinking about the hit that Byron actually gave to him.

But for him to then be like, Oh no, fuck. Sorry, dude. I knocked you out. Like you wanted to fight him. So I understand that everyone's like,

you know, even he looked like, well, bro, you, you set this whole thing up and then fucking punched his head in. So then be like, oh, sorry, man. Like that's like sociopathic a little bit.

Maybe like, what do you think you made this kid fight you? And now you're like, I'm interested to hear what R.A. has to say about it because he's a fan and you've kind of slowly went back toward the no checks to the head. And how do you feel about it all right um i i have no problem with him fighting i mean paul byron willingly dropped the gloves he didn't jump him he he here's the quote right here it said uh i simply asked him if he wanted to own up to the hit we just said i respect him for that i hope he's okay he didn't like he didn't jump him it

was like okay i'm willing to do it um predictably the media is the one doing all the finger wagon and pearl collect correct well that's what i was asking you i i guess ultimately the question is you know as more of a fan than me and wit are because you've been a hardcore fan for a long time do you think that that's a problem in the culture of hockey that the fact that he felt that he had to rise to the occasion and answer the bell there to me i'm like, because he's the one who fucking hit him in the head first. So, yeah, he lost some pay and lost, yeah, he got suspended. But what does Uyghur get out of that? See, I always say the players want it.

The players want fighting. If they're for it, then I'm for it. You know what I'm saying? It's a workplace issue. And, you know, to a man, everybody is fine with having it. Like I always say, it's like in case of emergency, break break class that's kind of what fighting is in the nhl now and you know like i said the media ties in the concussions all the time and you know i think they forget most concussions aren't even from fighting obviously byron probably got one last night but you know i have no issue

with how it went down last night i know other people feel different but you know say la vie oh yeah i wasn't like coming at you I was just kind of saying like you know as a I kind of want to hear the other side of it maybe there's an argument where I'm like I guess I never thought about it that way but as of right now nothing's changing my mind and I like the way everything went down other than the fact that Byron got hurt yeah I mean there's still a level of barbarism in hockey and that's always exactly it's a physical game and when you when you when you hurt someone physically you're a little kid in the playground like dude what happens when you get hit you hit the person back i'm not saying it's right you get bull ryan malone told me the funniest

thing on that on that wagon toy he's like yeah i tell my sons like uh if someone's you know picking on you tell the teacher if they pick on you again tell me or something that they pick on you again punch him in the face like it's like the same type of stuff where, I mean, if you get bullied and you – I mean, not that he was bullied, but if you get run over and you're pissed off, this is the type of game it is. So you can hate it or not, but I think that it's what makes hockey in a sense. I really do. I love a lot of people saying, mostly media,

oh, he apologized after he did it. It's like a fucking notes app is going to satisfy We go like oh he apologized on fucking twitter like that's enough no the guy's still gonna want to fucking take out take a snap at him and as i said i don't think we're going to be changing anyone's mind if they already have it made up so um good good good little topic though i like that absolutely and just one other thing jp barry who's byron's agent he actually did say that uh i think it might be time for the player safety to be the new code, which I thought was an interesting quote, but it's not going to happen.

The players are going to be the same. He's trying to say like a non-existent code should actually have an existence. Like that makes zero sense. The code is like, it's like an aura. It's like a cloud that comes into the room, you know? It can't be like the guys on the safety committee. Well, I mean, what else is he going to say? It's his client who had to go through it. cloud that comes into the room you know it can't be like the guys on the safety committee well i mean what else is he gonna say it's his client who had to go through it i mean he's gonna yeah

he's not gonna say yeah he's gonna answer the bell but i'm actually a big fan of the of the yeah the only thing i'm pissed off about is that you're getting pay deducted that was a fucking crunch and lefty caught him with the whole boy it wasn't all violence t Tuesday night in the NHL, Alexander Ovechkin scored his 49th goal of the season Tuesday, and the Caps win over Carolina. It was also his 656th career goal, which tied him with Brendan Shanahan

for 13th on the all-time list. Hi, Shani. We know you're listening. Next up is Luke Robitaille at 668. Then there's some big Titans after that. He's got Timu, Mario, Stevie Y, Messier all up on tap. It's probably going to be next year. The 33-year-old Ovechkin, he's

44 from number 700. Assuming he gets there, he'd be just the eighth NHLer in history to get 700 goals. Gretzky, Howe, Jager, Hull, Dion, Esposito, and Gartner. Also, he currently leads the league and if he hangs on to win another Rashad trophy, it'll be the sixth time in seven seasons that he's led the league and if he hangs on to win another rashad trophy it'll be the sixth

time in seven seasons that he's led the league in goals and once again assuming he gets to 50 this year he'll be just the third player in nhl history to have eight or more 50 goal seasons the other two wayne gretzky and mike bossy who each had nine heard of them yeah i heard of those guys i mean you know this is another guy who's drum we've been beating all season long, Ovechkin, when all is said and done, could be the number one goal scorer of all time. What do you think? I know we talked about it before, but, I mean, if he stays healthy, this is 894 goals is within reach, no?

I've said it. I've said that Bucci Grass, Bucci, man, he's been bringing it up for quite a while. Ovi Watch. So, yeah, the Ovi Watch could begin maybe four years, something like that. Who knows? Well, I'll tell you, though, I saw something recently as they were going to the ice.

I don't know what game it was, but he comes up. No, he's in the tunnel, like outside the locker room, like right before, like there's a minute left, Biz, when the boys are getting together. He comes over, and he, like, does this little dance with Verona. And then he goes over, and he stares in Hagelin's face, just tying him down. And then him and Wilson do an enormous chest bump. I'm like, Obi's such a legend. Now that I'm just watching hockey, I'm like,

this guy is out there just lighting it up, killing people. And then he's the funnest guy. You could tell everyone just loves him. And so the fact that he's been this good and he makes hockey fun. We all started playing because it was a blast. It's the time of your life going to the rink and he's still like that. Why wouldn't he be? I guess you know you're getting a goal every fucking night. It makes

the game pretty goddamn fun, but still it's pretty cool to see. He's not rushing. You know he's happy about that. I saw it on the Washington Capitals Twitter account and I watched that and I've never been more jealous and i just wanted to be back at the rink with the boys after twitter you saw that too yeah there was a little video of

it all the whole breakdown so he comes he walks out and then he does this like quack quack quack quack to on with verana and he's chewing gum and you know olvie he's got those he's got the salt and pepper hair he gets the worst haircuts because all r Russians do. He's chewing gum like he's a farm animal. Like a big wad of double. Oh, he's got six pieces of bubble. What is that, Bubblicious? And we know he crossed the sauces that afternoon. That's a fucking, that's a goddamn.

Crushing farts in the locker room after that. Oh, here's another thing. Oh, you know, he's getting one tonight when they smell like this pre-game here's another thing that would drive gordo nuts about ovi is he would go to the bathroom and he'd piss in the toilet seat and he wouldn't clean it off so he's always a farm animal but you gotta love him because they say i did that that's no that's such a lie when they handle say that so anyway the sauce crosser comes out, and then he does, like you said, he does the death stare with Hagelin, which I don't know.

I think Hagelin might have been doing that in Pittsburgh too. I feel like that's kind of like changing barbers. Maybe wherever he goes, he sees you. He's like, dude, I'm staring you down before the game. I know, but do you feel like now he's cheating on the Pittsburgh connection? No, if it's his move, if whoever comes to him, he stares down. He's done that no matter where he's been. Fair enough. Hey, listen, if Sid was the guy who got the stare connection. No, if it's his move, if whoever comes to him, he stares down. He's done that no matter where he's been. Fair enough.

Hey, listen, if Sid was the guy who got the stare down at Pittsburgh, you don't think he's jealous now that he'll always get the stare down? Come on. He stares at Sid, and Sid just like stares him back. He's like, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, like a little dog. That's what I'm saying. And then he went and hit Wilson, and I was like, fuck, I want to be back in the locker room.

So now I'm announcing it. I'm making a comeback. I'm going to get my other knee replaced, and we're going to're gonna do this boys i'm going back to the shizzle dude is it is it keith yandel who says when he retires he still just wants to go to a locker room and get dressed with the boys but then not go on the ice okay so i told him i want to do this show where you bring your gear to the rink and there's camera set up in a locker room and everyone just like like gets dressed slowly and then once you're dressed in your gear you just take it back off and yeah it's cool that's called chiclets you started the show or we started the show you're a part of it suck on that okay well there you go yeah thank you

biz what do you think of the worst like flavored sauces that you can cross together that would be absolutely disgusting oh i wouldn't be surprised if there was pesto out he was doing the triple sauce crossing like little little buffalo then a little alfredo put tabasco on there they said the guy look at the guy he's a farm animal no ovi would put like mayo on a on a biscuit and add some jelly to it too and be crushing in your face you're like ovi what are you doing right now you have four that night and you'd be fucking breathing on you by doing the knuckles in the line going oh man mayo's gross wow we really get off the rails yeah mayo mayo mayo is mayo so disgusting i tell every restaurant that i'm allergic to it i'm not allergic to it but i'm like listen i'm allergic to mayonnaise just to make sure because if you say i don't want mayonnaise

that's not the same thing they don't they don't want to kill. Because if you say I don't want mayonnaise, that's not the same thing. They don't want to kill you. So if you say you're allergic, you ain't getting it. Oh, could I tell you something that pisses me off, and this is really going off the rails, is what's that sandwich place I'm trying to think of? Is it Jimmy John's? I never go to places like that. We don't do franchises in the Northeast.

Too many good sex shops. Yeah. Like when people go to Subway, Jimmy John's, D'Angelo's, I think you're the biggest piece of shit. No offense to those places. Or those people. No offense.

Or those people. No offense. We're like local delis around here. I believe it is Jimmy John's, but they won't put the mustard on the sandwich for you they give you the mustard pack and that's like they don't want to kill you some or peanut butter places do that yeah but this is different as i mean we're talking about mustard

here where they'll put everything on they'll say oh we'll give you the mustard packs it's like man i i came here to purchase a sub at a takeout restaurant so you do the work. That's what I'm paying for. What do you mean me put on the mustard? I didn't take the sandwich. It would take me 45 minutes. I'd eat it in three. That's why I don't cook.

Yeah, just fucking put my mustard on. Why do you have the packs even? You're not saving money because those are probably more expensive than getting a big jug of it. So anyway, Jimmy Johnson, start putting the fucking mustard on. I think it's because ifimmy johnson fucking put put sir put the fucking mustard on i think it's because if you put too much on you can ruin the sub so they probably like let people ruin their own sub because i know if you get a sub and they put too much mustard on it's fucking ruins it and i'm not talking dijon either dijon's a disgrace oh not a brown mustard

guy eh no i like the yellow do you have any gray poupons? All right. We talked about the Sharks goaltending a couple weeks or a week or so ago on here and how much they've been struggling a little bit. The fading Sharks, they've lost six in a row, and they're not exactly looking like the intimidating Caradon Carcarius from earlier in the season. Hashtag Ask a Millennial Biz. What movie?

Boy, you've been dropping. I'm Google searching some of these things you've been saying. I'll give you the rest. Now, this is not a boat accident. There wasn't any propeller. There wasn't any coral reef. And it wasn't Jack the Ripper. It was a shock.

Come on, fucking Jaws. Cock carry on, cock carry. You're going in deep right now. Should have been an easy one. Anyways, it's the longest. I knew it. The longest losing streak in two years and four of those losses to non-playoff teams.

They have been missing Carlson for the last dozen games and Pavelski for the last four, but, you know, they're still a pretty good team. They should be doing better without him. Head coach Peter DeBoer said his team was lacking desperation. Quote, it's work. It's desperation. I don't know if there's a complacency about where we are in the standings

or what, but we've got to get out of it. The only way to get out of it is to work out of it. Whit, I wanted to ask you, can teams just turn the switch on when playoffs come around? Like, obviously, they're kind of coasting right now, but when the playoffs come, are the Sharks able to hit that switch? I mean, I think it's possible, but it's not ideal, right? So, like, it's kind of a weird question,

because no matter what, going into the playoffs, you're either, let's keep it going, boys. We're feeling it already. Let's go. The the things have been what we're doing is working or you're like hey guys new season we've been struggling the last four but we knew the playoffs were coming we're fine we're fine you know we we kind of leaked we kind of limped in but we've known for a while we're in let's go now it's go time both things happen and and and and they work and you play well and both those situations happen and you have a first round loss so it's it's really hard to say i think it can happen i just when i

said at the beginning it's not ideal that's the first thing that comes to mind and that's why tampa this year has been really impressive because if anyone wants to kind of relax it's them they're they're mentally strong team i mean they've they've made a pact, not a pact, like sitting around a campfire pact, but individually, silently even, all right, we're going to play as hard as we can. We're going to treat this like it was game 15 of the season, even though everything's locked up, because we don't want any of the relaxation before playoffs. So either way, you can win a Stanley Cup, but most of the time,

I'm going to tell you that I think playing well leading in matters a lot. Man, I got a bad feeling about them. And you got to think that, you know, based on their past too, like remember for that stretch of time, they were a team that couldn't even get over the first round hump. They were kind of the, I mean, they were kind of like St. Louis during the same amount of time, same period of time, and maybe a little before it. until they went to that cup final

against Pittsburgh, man. That was their MO. I mean, the choke artist. They made that fucking logo with the shark with the stick. Hey, do you remember that? Yes. Like the broken stick where it's lodged. I mean, you guys know the meme.

You've all seen it. It's pretty good. Whoever made that, that's pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good. That's why it's lasted a test of time. It keeps coming up every year. And, I mean, specifically the year when they were up 3-0 on L.A. and then L.A. ran the table.

Remember that one? And then L.A. ended up going 1-0. L.A. won the cup, too. I took them down as part of an eight seed in Anaheim. Yeah. Thanks for coming. I don't know. I hope they can turn around.

As I said, man, if there's one guy who deserves a cup, it's Joe Thornton. But this doesn't seem like a light switch situation to me because every team that's going to get in, and especially the team that they're probably going to end up playing, Vegas ain't nothing to slouch about, man. And they got their number last year. Exactly what I was going to say, Biz. I mean, even if they are able to turn this switch on, I mean, they got the Vegas Golden Knights waiting for about, man. And they got their number last year. Exactly what I was going to say, Biz. I mean, even if they are able to turn this switch on,

I mean, they got the Vegas Golden Knights waiting for them, man. And they're going to be tough to beat. They're one of the hottest teams in the league right now. Actually, we meant to mention, we do have longtime NHL referee, Kerry Frazer, coming on in a little bit. Biz, you got to do a nice long interview with him down in New York City, right? Boys, it was a live interview. I wish I could have had you guys with me.

But, you know, me and G did some studying for it. And I tell you what, the minute he got to that office at Barstool, he had a pep and a step. And I'm like, this is going to be electric because he was there for one thing and one thing only. And it's like when he was a referee, it was to be a showman.

And that's exactly what he was. He brought a shit ton of stories. G. And he spent 20 minutes giving me hair advice after the podcast, so I'm very thankful for that. Why haven't you listened to him? Oh, it's coming. I got to get the product first.

He's going to send me some of that product, so I'm excited. But that's how he started doing it like that. He used to have bad hair, and I forget. He says it in the interview. He started getting blowouts and started using that product and then all of a sudden guys on the ice were like holy shit and his first ever game you know I'm gonna save it I'm gonna save it wait for this see I'm already getting excited actually biz let's go to it right now because I'm fired up to hear this so we got

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like me still has a few extra bucks laying around. And if you didn't think it could get any better, it does. SoFi money also gets you SoFi membership. You can get access to exclusive events like tickets to the Big East basketball tournament, free one-on-one career coaching, and more. Learn how SoFi can help you get your money right and open a SoFi money account right now at SoFi.com slash chicklets. That's S-O-F-I dot com slash chicklets. Well, folks, this guy doesn't need much of an introduction, although I know he wants one.

This guy loves it. He's already giggling over there. Over 1,900 games officiated, regular season. I'd say probably the most iconic NHL referee of all time. 261 NHL playoff games refereed, and 12 NHL Finals appearances. I thought it was 13. Somebody must have messed around with your Wikipedia page. And not to forget, the nicest head of hair to ever walk the face of the planet.

Kerry Frazier, welcome to the Spittin' Chicklets podcast. Biz, I gotta tell you, it's an honor to be here with you again. We were together on the set at TSN for a bit and some iconic moments off camera with you, Bubby. You know what? Why don't you start us off with that one? I know 2019 is a very sensitive time, but that was back in the day. So why don't you tell that story very quickly? I got to tell you, I'm in a whole bank of games being played, and I'm supposed to watch if the referees screw up or there's a call that's controversial.

I clip it. We start right off when we come back from the intermission. First up is me with James Duthie, but I'm looking over at the panel, and Biz Nasty's on the panel, and he's got all these guys looking at plays or something on his screen of his iPhone, and I think, God, I got to go over and check it out. And they're laughing and they're looking at it. Oh, that's awesome. All of a sudden, I look at it and it's porn.

But it's not just porn. It's him in the video. My God. I went through some wild times and we talk about them quite frequently on the podcast. I actually got a death threat from a stripper's boyfriend, and we played that for all our listeners. I know, I heard. I've calmed down quite a bit, but this interview is not about me. This interview is about you.

We got a lot of questions from fans because you're the first referee that we've had on since I've joined. But before we get into all the common questions that you usually have to answer, what have you been up to lately? Well, I'm really loving life. A couple of things have happened. One, two years ago, I was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia. It's in the bone marrow. There's no cure for it, but it's very manageable. I got the light pail to carry. So I've been on a chemo pill for two years. It's brought my platelet count down into the normal range. It's called essential thrombocythemia, friends, ET.

Make sure you get a blood test, especially after 50 years old, because it can just, you know, it can kill you. Your platelet count starts rolling and rolling and rolling on steroids, and you don't maybe know it, and all of a sudden, a blood clot will hit, go to your heart, brain, stroke. Mick Magoo, we just lost him, and i don't know whether this was a similar situation but please get your blood tested i'm doing great you look you're fucking great i feel good i mean i'm working out i also am in the golf business with my son-in-law uh he's got a sports uh any major sporting event in the world vip hospitality we were just at the waste management phoenix open

four geez five six luxury boxes on number 16. We run two on the 17. Had over 1,500 people through during the week. Played golf. Next up is the Masters. So, I mean, I'm living large. So, this is usually in the podcast where we drop the not a big deal after you mention all those humble brags. Yes, very good.

So, you want to test it out? No, I'm not bragging. I'm just saying, man man we should try it well i know we know i we usually drop the not a big deal no big deal there it is okay so there we go officially you might have to be a reoccurring guest um i learned today that you were actually quite the player growing up well you know dad, we bring things to our adulthood or our teenage years that we acquire along the way. My old man was a nut. Yeah, he was a fighter. He was a goon in the IHL.

He played in Scotland at 19 in the Scottish International Hockey League. All Canadian guys, they had the camp for the league at Maple Leaf Gardens. His good buddy was Bill Barocco, who scored the winning goal in the Stanley Cup for the Leafs and then was tragically killed in a plane crash. So he stayed with Bill Barocco, made the league. They went over on a ship, 19 years old. I just had, we had a group over to the old course of St. Andrews. And they were having a drink in the Dunvegan Bar, which is the best golf bar in the world. I love it, love it, love it.

And this guy walked in, spitting image of Cary Fraser, and a little older. And he could be my brother. The old man was over there. I don't know. Do you like to have a good time? I do. He's probably making videos of his own, just no iPhones back then, more VHS tapes. He was the real deal.

Debbie does Dallas style. Yeah, yeah. So what made you get into officiating? Well, I wasn't good enough and big enough to play at the NHL level. I was a good little player, but the old man was also a boxer. And I played three years of AAA midget for him. And so we had five guys that went on to play off our team in the NHL. We had Bob Neely, who was a defenseman, the first-round pick of the Leafs.

We had Wayne Merrick, who won four Stanley Cups with the Islanders. We were line mates. But I was the guy that the old man taught how to fight. He was a boxer as well. So in our kitchen, he would have – and I'm a lefty – he'd have me get set, and he'd have me tuck my head in in and boom, he'd knock me down. He must've knocked me down more times than I could stand up, but he taught me how to go. And we were in the silver blade tournament, which was the aftermath of the silver stick as midgets. And we were in the final game and dad was a real disciplined coach.

And he said, boys, there was this big defenseman like your size and he was sticking our guys and being dirty and dad said no penalties no penalties win the game win the game so we got five minutes left we're up five to two taps me on the shoulder he said okay go teach that guy a lesson i it's easier to punch up than it is down right that's true i speed bagged him with both hands cut him him over the eyes wicked. We get thrown out of the game. I'm in the dressing room. The guys come in. Everybody's excited. I hear ruckus out in the hall. I hear my dad's voice.

He comes in, slips in, locks the door. He came over to me and he said, listen, Kerry, he said, you had no problem with the kid, but I don't think you can take the mother. They carried me out in a stick bag. I was 5'2", 118 pounds, and I'm getting carried out in a stick bag. So anyway, five foot two 118 pounds and i'm getting carried out in a stick

bag so anyway enough of that stuff but i hated bullies and uh as i as i finished at junior a level as a captain of the sarnia bees in the southern ontario junior league uh mark howe was playing for detroit uh junior red wings kenny houston uh landed draft pick six foot three and 230 he was in Chatham. Had a couple of guys in Windsor that Frankie beaten. Frankie never been beaten, and then he got beat once. He was seldom been beaten. He was my line mate.

We had a blast. So those are – but I carried that kind of aggressiveness. You're type A. I'm huge. You're fucking type A. Holy shit. You might take over this interview. Even without the Java.

You're a fucking type A. Holy shit. You might take over this interview. Even without the Java. So when now all of a sudden I was handed an application to a referee school, 19 years old, I'm undrafted, whole bunch of U.S. scholarship offers from the States, didn't want to do that. Nobody offered any money on the back door?

No, no, none of that stuff. The London Knights come calling? No, nobody paid. Sure? No, I'm sure. Anyway, so I had a decision to make. You're going to play in the minor leagues? You're going to get the heck beat out of you because you're too little and you play too big.

So Ted Garvin, who played pro with my dad and was coaching in the IHL, went on to coach the Detroit Red Wings. He handed me a brochure to a referee school. He said, listen, why don't you get into officiating? We need guys that understand the game, good skaters. don't you get into officiating? We need guys that understand the game, good skaters. I paid 250 bucks 1972 to go to Halliburton Referee School. All NHL instructors and the world hockey came in at that time. So I'm there at the camp. I dropped the stick, threw it away, put it in the closet. Now I'm going to be a referee. Really studied, focused. At the end of the camp, I refereed 10 minutes of a men's intermediate hockey game. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but Frank Udvery, Hall of Fame referee, was assistant director of officiating,

watched me for 10 minutes, took me off the ice in the referee's room, said, I really like what I saw. I'd like to invite you to the NHL training camp for officials. Two days later, I'm in Toronto with the NHL officials. And from there, they put me in the American League. They signed me to a contract as a referee. And away I went. I fell out of the sky. You know how you arrive? There was a shortage of officials at the time. And of course, good ones. Perfect timing, world hockey formed. Some of the guys jumped like Bill Friday, went for a million bucks to the world hockey. It was just the right time. And I had the aptitude for it. I had the type A, the aggressiveness.

But I learned in a confrontation with Wayne Gretzky in my first game in Northland's Coliseum when I came into the league that I had to change. I had to change my fight, my aggressiveness, because Gretz started diving right off the bat that night, and I stuck it up his butt, and I regretted it. After the game, Flyers are playing, Bobby Clark and those guys, and at the end of the game, I never called a thing on him when he was fouled.

I just got really pissed off that he was trying to embarrass me, and the Northlands crowd went on me. So towards the end of the game uh oilers down by one power plays their best option pelly lindbergh catches the puck i blow the whistle boom gretzky's behind the net in his office he jumped in the air hands out front feet out back boom belly flop bobby clark skated over no teeth. He said, get up, Kretzky, you fucking baby. I went over. I said, Wayne, what are you doing? I said, there was nobody within 15 feet of you.

He said, well, you wouldn't have called it anyway. You haven't called a blank thing all night. I said, you're right. I'm going to start right now. You've got two friends, sportsman-like conduct. He said, thanks. It's about half the time you called something, and he stormed off the ice. I won the battle that night, right?

But I knew I would lose the war war i went back to my hotel room this every every game i replayed it i've got a memory like vcr and i went was there something i could have done better boom stick between the eyes i compromised my integrity the league the the game i love, the players, and it wasn't right. So from that moment on, and I realized that it was me. I had deficiencies. I had assets. I had deficiencies. You've got to take the good with the bad, though. That's how it goes. You've got to recognize the bad. And the bad for me was little man syndrome, chip on the shoulder, assertive, aggressive, and I needed to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. So self-awareness was a key ingredient early on.

If you think you're right all the time, you're going to be wrong most of the time. So how would you have handled it differently? Would you have went up to him after the first time he did and said, hey, listen, I need you to respect me a little bit more here. I know that you get clutched and grabbed a little bit too much based on your skill set, but work with me here. That's absolutely right. As opposed to just kind of being the bully. I got to tell you, you could be a referee with that kind of attitude. You know what?

And that was going to be a question for later on. You must have the thickest skin in the world to be an NHL official. You do, but you know what I learned from the Gretzky situation? I needed to develop relationships, professional relationships with guys so I was approachable and not the get away kind of stuff that we see sometimes. One of the stories early on was the one where one of the captains came over. He ended up throwing a bunch of guys out from a team. Do you remember the one I'm specifically talking about?

Oh, absolutely. Do you mind telling that? Sure. I believe it's in your book as well. Yeah. This home team, I mean, they're frustrated, right? When you're at home in front of your home crowd and you're losing big time

and the fans start getting restless, they're booing, and all of a sudden it's like 10-1 or something like that. It's a blowout. And guys are frustrated. Every goal that was scored, people threw shit in the ice and a player would come over to me,

yell at me, curse at me, boom, I'd bang him. I had him sitting three deep in the penalty box towards the end of the third period. All of a sudden, as they're cleaning up more debris, the captain came over and very politely, he said, Mr. Referee, my coach wants to know if he can get a penalty for thinking. I said, well, if he doesn't think out loud, he's probably going to be okay. He said, in that case, he thinks you're a fucking asshole. I laughed. Which is awesome. Yeah. And I looked over at the coach. He had the scowl. He had to give me the stink eye. And then all of a sudden, he saw me laugh. He smiled. And then he laughed. And I went, boom, this is what we have to do. We have to enjoy what we do. We've got to love this game.

We've got to have fun with it. And from then on, it was a little better. From then on, I was a joke. There's one official that comes to mind that reminds me of you a little bit. He's the French referee. I believe his last name is Saint-Pierre. Oh, yeah? Well, in regards to the fact that I'm sure a lot of people don't like him

because he's a showman, and so were you. Personality. We have personality. Personality, and you loved it. You did so much that maybe people took it in the wrong way, where when they see a buddy and chumming guys, your hair is so beautiful, and you're smiling all over the ice,

a lot of people are like, hey, just do your fucking job and start having such a good time. You brought up a good point. This Quebec Nordique sweater, I called a disallowed Alain Côté's goal. Oh, yeah. Let's go to this one. In 1987, Battle of Quebec in Montreal in the Forum, game five, game tied.

The game previously went into overtime, so everything is tight. The game is tied with a minute and a half left, and Alain Cote goes down the right side, cuts into the middle, as Brian Hayward, the goalie for the Habs, is being dragged out of the crease, and I'm standing on the goal line, and I'm going, no, please, don't score, don't score, because I know I got to disallow it. I mean, talk about have to have elephant balls, right? So all of a sudden, he shoots it right in the middle of the net. Nordiques are all up and excited. The bench is excited.

And I'm waving in, disallowing the goal. Well, Michel Bergeron, the coach, Le Petit Tigre, he's on the bench. He's pulling his hair out. It's a famous picture of him yelling and screaming.

They went numb. They went numb. And next faceoff, in the end zone, boom. I've got... Carbo wins the faceoff. Carbino, Guy Carbino wins the draw. Over to Kirk Muller.

Up to Ryan Walter. Boom. Winning goal. I got to fight my way off the ice. As an official, you're probably praying that goes to OT at least. That non-goal call is kind of a distant memory. No kidding. I prayed a lot of times on the goal line when I called a stinky penalty,

like, please don't let him score. Now, the fact that Hayward got ran, did they end up getting a penalty? Well, they did get a penalty. It was Gillis that took him out. So you had to give him a penalty. Yeah, but Naslund was behind him and gave him a little nudge, so I gave Mats Naslundland so it was coincidental i'm not you know my dad didn't raise a stupid boy common sense boom because that's just how she goes and so now we're you know offsetting penalties no

problem and let's play on uh i wasn't counting on uh ryan walter and that was actually the second time you got carried out in a hockey bag. It could have been a body bag. You know what? I did seven out of seven games in the first round. This was game five. I had done five out of five. I'd done two Stanley Cup finals previous years. And all of a sudden, I'm sitting at home waiting to get a next assignment.

And I hear on the Sarnia radio station back in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada, Sarnia native NHL referee Kerry Fraser, it's been reported as being sued by a group of Quebec fans for prejudice. I went, what? Pardon? Yeah. So I called the league and I called Jim Gregory. I said, Jim, what the heck is this all about? Is there any truth to it?

Jim Gregory, great guy, right? He says, you haven't been served with a subpoena yet, have you? I said, no, there's truth to this. He says, well, there's a report, but we got you covered. We got your back. He said, just send it to New York. They're all ready for you. He had my back all right.

That was the last game I worked in the playoffs. They dropped me like a hot potato. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. I was going to ask you, so what's it like during an NHL season? Are you guys only allowed to work so many games just to keep you guys fresh mentally? Well, in a collective bargaining agreement, we can do as a referee, you can do 75. But if you go over the magic number, they give you 175th bonus of your contract. When we went into the two-referee system, because the younger guys weren't ready,

we got a boatload of bonus money at the end because we were working 85, 87 games. Well, yeah, and then expansion too. More teams are coming in, more games, and all of a sudden you guys are working. So with preseason, regular season, and if you go the whole route through the Stanley Cup Finals, you're looking at 90 to 100 games.

What's the rule in playoffs? Are you only allowed to do so many games per round? No. Do you usually hop around series? You do. Again, the collective bargaining agreement has a number of officials for each round that are selected. More guys in, more money paid.

The less experienced guys will be paired with a senior guy. They'll work the first five games. They'll be assigned in a round and then they leave six, seven open because they might need to refigure, reconfigure the, uh, the pairings. Are, are finals officials decided based on performance in the previous rounds or are those kind of already? Well, it's, it's over the course of the regular season, but also each round, the supervisors get together and they determine who the best officials were. It's highly unlikely that somebody that was rated at number one would not do the finals unless he had a major blow up. Right.

Probably to protect him though, right? Well, yeah, because, you know, as a player, you make a bad play and you're a great player, you're going to be forgiven, right? If you're a fourth line guy and you make a bad play, you're going to be on the end of the plank. Correct. Right? Or you're going to be sitting in the press box. So there's more leeway given to the guys that have carried the pail that have the experience. It doesn't always mean that if you're rated number one that you get the finals.

As a matter of fact, you're looking at a guy that was rated number one the year the New York Rangers went to the Stanley Cup final. I breezed through the playoffs. I had great playoffs. I had Mark Messier's guaranteed game six. No way. Yep. And I was on my boat. We went on strike that year, and I was on the executive, and I was front and center in the battle to get our guys more money with the commissioner. And so anyway. I want to ask you about that game six. So hearing that quote beforehand, does that make you a little bit more nervous considering you know there's going to be way more eyes on that game just based on the drama,

or did you just live for that shit? I do. Every time, like, number one, you've got to prepare yourself for every game. You've got to be the best you can be. I always wanted to have a positive influence on a game, and that could be just staying out of the way sometimes. Other times where you have to step up,

depending on what the players present. Sean Avery, for example. I had Sean's thing, too. We'll talk about that. But the game six with Mess, at the end of the second period, I said to the two linesmen, it was Pat DiPuzo and Gerard Gauthier, I said, stick a fork in these Rangers. They're done. They're absolutely done. I just give Anessa Tikkanen a kneeing penalty. He needs Stéphane Richer. So they're going to be starting the period a man down. I just give Anessa Tikkanen a kneeing penalty. He needs Stefan Richer. So they're going to be starting the period a man down. They just didn't have any juice.

They were beat. They were whipped. They were tired. And out came the captain. I would never discount what he said ever again. He took the game on his back. Natural hat trick. Boom.

Game seven. You mentioned briefly Sean Avery there. And I'm sure throughout the course of your career, just dealing with all these different personalities. And it's kind of like Scotty Bowman. They say he wasn't maybe the best X and O's coach, but he just knew how to work with certain guys. Like, everyone's different, right? You've got to talk to guys differently.

Some guys, you need to bark back at them. Some guys, you need to coddle them a little bit. And you're one of the best to do that. Well avery after the marty brodeur boom boom stick wave in front there was a rule in the book we didn't have to create a sean avery rule all the referee had to do was give him a two minute on sportsmanlike conduct penalty for inciting he and if he still if he continued it he would have got a misconduct the rule was there but the guys went brain dead so now they create this rule and they talk to Sean and they read him the riot act. And I've got the next game before the game, before the national anthem, they take the ice. He came

right to me and he had like, if I wouldn't call it fear, but he had anxiety over this and he's, and he's talking really quickly. And he said, Carrie, listen, I'm going to be a good boy tonight. I'm not going to cause you any problems. I went, whoa, stop. I said, listen, Sean. I said, you know what I expect. You know what I do. I said, you are a good player. You can be effective.

Just play your game. Just do what you do. But you know what I have to do. You know my line. And he went, man, thanks a lot. He was nervous. He was worried he thought they're gonna this the refs this night are gonna stick it up his butt but but wise for him to

approach it that way where communication always prevails big time you gotta you gotta open up uh we're on the topic of of playoffs here uh let's uh let's bring up some playoff moments uh famous ones in your career you mentioned this one in your book the final call uh the one involving theo flurry which everybody asks him there's a few players that people specifically ask us about but talk to us about that uh situation with theo well certainly we know now why theo was such an yeah he was yeah yeah and it's it's sick it's it's horrific um but he was he hated authority he had because he was a little guy and I'm a little guy, we just didn't mix. And, and there was, he was always, always crawling up my butt to try and get, you know, just nasty. And so we didn't get along too well. He didn't get a break when he needed a

break. If there was one that could go either way, it went that way. So in this particular game in Chicago, April 19th of 96, he's playing for the Calgary Flames. They're down. It's game two, I believe. They took a couple of penalties early, and then Theo took a penalty, and he just went apeshit on me.

I mean, the stuff that he said... I'm going to read the quote. I'm going to read it here. So this might take about 30 minutes. And he put this into his book, Playing With Fire. This is a quote from his book. So he was pretty much fed up with you at that point for whatever reason.

He goes, I'm going to fucking kill you. I don't care who you fucking think you are. Let's meet outside in the parking lot, you fucking shitbag asshole. Immediately, you gave him a 10 right away, and then he threw his helmet at you. Yeah, he took his helmet off and threw it at you. And it landed right by your feet. And you're just boiling at this point.

Well, some people might say he's a good judge of character with what he said, but I would disagree. And I got to tell you. Shitbag asshole. I mean, I'm going to put that in my arsenal. That'll be on my tombstone. Your name bar at your next charity hockey game. Run over by the Zamboni.

So anyway, I got adrenaline like you can't believe with what he said. And we're in close proximity. And you just, it's the fight or flight and i wanted to fight and then this my muscles started quivering my leg was twitching the helmet's sitting right there i was going to kick it back in his face he took a breath you know the old zen stuff yeah i hit the namaste yeah and i threw him out of the game but i always like to take a bad situation and i like to turn it to a good situation. Four years later, this story doesn't end here.

It goes four years later and Theo signs an $8 million one-year free agent deal with the New York Rangers. But because of his substance abuse situation, the league put him in the substance abuse program right off the bat. He didn't start the season. First game back, Madison Square Garden, December 19th of 2000, four years after I became a shitbag asshole. And end of the first period, they're playing the St. Louis Blues. Joel Quenville is the coach. Tyson Nash, second-year pro with the St. Louis Blues.

There's a scrum in the end zone. It disperses. Theo Fleury, just him and I at the red line between the two benches at Madison Square Garden, tears coming down his cheeks. He said, Kerry, I'm trying to clean my life up, honest. I haven't done coke in X number of months. I haven't had a drink. I'm trying to clean my life up. Don't let him talk to me like that. I said, who, what? He told me Tyson Nash and what he said about his dependency I had a decision to make I had a choice I could have said human nature would dictate looks good on you man how do you

like it remember four years ago remember the things you've done you've said you've to other guys right I saw a wounded individual in front of me a human being that needed I want to take his pain away want like one of my seven kids give him a hug give. Give him a hug. Come on, buddy. I said, tell you what, if I can get Tyson Nash back here at the start of the next period, and if he gives you a sincere apology, will you accept it like a man? He said, yeah. I said, I'll tell you what, if I get him here, promise you won't break a stick over his head. He said, I promise. I went, bypassed our dressing room in MSG up to, you know, the visitor's dressing room. Coach's room is off to the right. I went right in the visiting coach's room. Joel Quenville. I said, Joel, this is what Tyson Nash said to Theo Fleury. He rolled his eyes. Joel's class. He said, do you want me to

tell him to take his gear off? He thought I was going to throw him out of the game. I said, no, how about this? Apology. I said, it probably will help Theo and it might not hurt your guy. Great idea. Joel ran into his player' room, confronted Tyson Nash. I'm waiting at the start of the next period at the red line between the benches with Theo. St. Louis Blues come out. Tyson tries to do a little skate by. I flag him over. I said, do you have something to say to this man?

Tyson Nash was affected by this. His lip was quivering. It was affecting him. Yeah, yeah. I mean, quivering. He had, it was affecting him. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's an awesome guy. I work with him. Great dude. Incredible.

Great, I love him. And I said, he said, Theo, I am extremely sorry. He said, I sincerely apologize. He said, I went way below the line and I'm sorry. And he tapped him on the shin pad and he said, I wish you the best in everything you've got ahead of you. Oh, that's all I got. Awesome. I said to Theo, I said, you good with that and everything you've got awesome i said to theo i

said you good with that he said yeah i said shake hands boys let's play now that didn't stop tyson nash from doing what he normally does he lured brown on defense into a 17 minute confrontation penalties and the game ended and the blues win and but i called tyson 10 years later 96 to 2000 to 2010 i'm retiring i'm going to write this book and i saw what theo wrote in his about the shitbag asshole i want to turn this to a good story yeah i like that so i called tyson and i said tyson do you remember the situation in madison square garden 2000 with theoury. The phone went blank. He came back. He said, Kerry, that was a life-altering situation.

It was career-changing for me. I said, tell me about it. He wrote, I put in his words exactly what he told me. It's incredible. For any level of player in any sport, coaches, parents, the message that he delivered is incredible, incredible. And what I like about it too is we all fuck up and I feel like we live in a society now

where if you do, people want to hold you accountable forever until the end of time. So no one can ever really truly be sorry. It's just not good enough. Whereas like that, like you said, just the way you handled it, it kind of like took away all the animosity. And then now we can all learn from it. It'll probably help from people

putting themselves in that situation moving forward. Because I do keynote speaking things with companies and corporates, and there's lessons to be learned that we can always transfer from one occupation to another. And what I say here is we can make a difference with something so simple in every day. We can make a difference in somebody's life, whether they're grumpy, they're what, I mean, you can open a door for a lady and say, have a nice day. This was a simple apology. And the participant in it said it was life altering career changing. So going back to the alcohol and drug abuse, I mean, there was a lot of that going on throughout the league during that time. It was just a different world, different beast back then.

Guys were staying in towns after games, getting after it, then they would fly out the next day. Do you feel that there was so much chaos and so much anger and crazy stories because of that? Because you've got to imagine the highs and lows of drinking and doing drugs all the time, and a lot of these guys were going out on the road all the time. Do you think that that was why those

times were so crazy as well? Well, I started in the 70s, so I mean, the alcohol was the issue. It was part of it. After a game. I mean, both teams would be in the same bar drinking, and, you know, it was, and the refs would be in there too, and there were times when I worked games guilty

because I didn't quite get to bed very – probably just got on the flight and slept on the flight and had a great afternoon nap and I was ready. But I worked guilty. And a lot of the players will tell you. They played some of their best games guilty. But it's not right. I mean, you can't do that now. It's a whole different culture with phones and cell phones and people taking pictures.

And plus, the game is much quicker. Well, I feel like it's gotten more rational on the player side of it, where it's maybe gotten a little more irrational on the fan side of it. We'll get into that later. Another battle that you had during your career was you and Mario a little bit. Or at least people's public opinion seemed to think that you guys didn't get along early and towards the middle of his career. Well, we didn't. And, you know, I regret – I tried to develop positive relationships, positive professional working relationships. And Mario came into the league.

He was such a phenom. I mean, he saved that franchise. But he came in at 18 years of age and so skilled. but he wouldn't put on the jersey when they drafted him. He refused to play for the Canadian national junior team in his final year because he felt they disrespected him. So he had a little bit of uniqueness to him. to him and uh but we had a situation on the ice where he became a young captain second year captain and he he never liked to be touched he wanted the game the way it is now because he had so much skill and we shouldn't have but did allow an awful lot of clutch grab holding back then and uh it wasn't good for the game but you didn't call everything, and you certainly didn't call somebody away from the puck for restraining. And he became frustrated in a lot of games. So I gave him a penalty in this particular game against Tampa.

Tampa, yeah. Yeah, because he chopped a guy. He got frustrated. He got stripped of the puck and maybe close to the hands. I think he gave him kind of a retaliatory butt end slash elbow after a couple hooks. Yeah. So he's in the box and he didn't like it. And then all of a sudden we're waiting for the face off.

And I saw a stick fly over the glass at the penalty box. And I said to linesman Jerry Pateman, I said, did Mario just throw a stick over the boards? He said, yeah. So I skated by, not to be confrontational. I never said a word to him. I just sk by cruise by boom 10 minutes and i circled so now all of a sudden he goes let's back it up yeah was there a little bit of flair to you giving her the old the old 10 no it was kind of come on no we got to check the game tape, Grinnell? Take a look at it. The only one time that I really, really dinged a guy was Enrico Ciccone

and he was playing in Tampa. He was up my rear end for three games in a row and I'd had enough of him. His very first shift, he got a penalty. He went like he was going to say something. I went, boom. Then he went, and I went, boom. And then he... So to say something, I went, boom. Then he went, and I went, boom. And then he, and I lassoed him.

So for those listening, basically the minute that Enrico was about to say a word, you not only teed him up, then you dimed him up, and then you tossed him. Yeah. All in one motion. But I thought there was a pause and a break in between until I saw the replay, and I went, oh, my God, I had the six guns on. I mean, I was gunslinging that yeah but i'd had i'd had enough of them yeah make my day so yeah mario and i i regretted um because we had a

confrontation where i had given him a penalty another time and he came out they got scored on and he came right to the face off and he put his stick down and he tapped it he said nice fucking call i went whoa paul coffee just been traded coffee's on the back end blue line i said you're the captain you're supposed to be the leader of this team i said there's a captain look at that guy over there paul coffee that's a leader that's a now he okay i said your guys don't even listen to you that was horrible and i and i like there's the type a popping back out as soon as it came out i couldn't suck it back and i went oh my god what have you done after so now three days later they're on long island end of the first period there's a scrum okay big scrum at the end of the first period i go in there blowing my whistle like a lunatic you know i try to get everybody to disband mario looks at me looks down at me of course

he looks and says hey boys let's go and they all followed him and he gave me the stink eye like i'm in charge here you're not it was beautiful but i regretted that so much so much so much um when he came at you and then his team had to restrain him, what was Kevin Steven saying to you? Well, Ronnie Francis was there too. What a great guy he is. And Kevin says, come on, just get away, just get away. But the funny thing is, I looked at the tape afterwards and from the back door view, Mario's frustrated. I get it.

He takes his glove off. he unlatches the door he pulls the door open now he's going to come and get me right he's going to fight me maybe he puts his glove back on is that to protect those beautiful hands of his or must have been he maybe not want yeah yeah he didn't know how to hit the eject button thank god he didn't do it thank god could you imagine he would have broke his hand on your face? No, the hairspray would have crunched it. He would have cracked the knuckle. Oh, man. We're going back to hair.

Okay, so all of our fans are asking. We'll hop into a fan question. What do you use as product for that beautiful salad? It looks better now to me because you've got a little bit of that salt and pepper George Clooney going on. Yeah, I've got to brush it in. This is Paul Mitchell. So I had a playoff game in the old Buffalo Auditorium. There's the famous. I've watched the game at the Aud before.

Famous. Oh, I hate that. I hate that. So the. Oh, actually, going back to that story about the quote unquote porno I created. I believe the girl was using a toy. And he goes, Gary Frazier goes, hey, that looks like my hairbrush. That's what you said at the TSN desk desk and all the boys had a good laugh uh duffy ended up bringing it up on his podcast

when i was last on it yeah well it did have little bristles on it like so anyway they're a lot more advanced than that now kerry i don't know if you know these i certainly don't machines it's like an alien landing or something they must have distributed them yeah well it could vibrate the hair maybe i don't know but anyway so this uh game playoff game boston brunes win one nothing in the odd and uh i in the old auditorium you used to have to walk out and you're right in with the crowd and this lady came up to me right in my face and she said carrie i gotta have a word with you and i thought oh man what did i do like brunes win one nothing she's pissed off i set my bag down i said yes ma', what did I do? Like, Bruins win one-nothing. She's pissed off. I set my bag down.

I said, yes, ma'am, what can I do for you? She said, you're flying up and down that ice 100 miles an hour. Your hair never moves. She said, I got problem hair. What's your secret? I said, Paul Mitchell freeze and shine for the hard days. She said, perfect. I'm going to go buy a case of it.

And I walked away. And? You've been using this ever since? It's the best. How many years have you used this product forever as soon as as soon as kathy had me do a makeover from my wife kathy from my uh beetle cut hair straight down we went uh on a break and went to uh marco island she said we gotta we gotta fix. Like, you look like a little kid out there, the beetle cut. So, blown back, okay? First game back after the break, I'm in Madison Square Garden.

Islanders playing the Rangers. The house lights are all down as the players come out onto the ice. They turn the house lights on. Pat Price playing defense for the Islanders. He looks like he doesn't recognize the referee. He went, holy shit, Fraze. What'd you do? Right over here in a convertible?

Hair all back. You called it a blowout? A blowout. Like, did you go to a salon and they did it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He restructured the hair. Have you ever been approached about doing a brand deal with Paul Mitchell?

Let's do it. I'll be able to line one up. We'll get everybody a Biz 20 promo code for 20% off their first bottle. There you go. Yeah. Oh, go. Yeah. Oh, God. A quick story here. So last night, you know, we're preparing for this interview.

And I'm like, Grinnell, and I had a couple other ones to do yesterday. And I'm like, Grinnell, can you look up some stuff so I can ask him about tomorrow during the interview? And he's like, oh, I got some stuff. I said, okay, give me a quick story. Like, what have you found so far? He goes, apparently he missed some call in a Stanley Cup Eastern Conference final game when Doug Gilmore got stuck in the face by Wayne Gretzky. My mouth dropped. 93.

I remember where I was when Princess Diana passed away. I remember where I was when O.J. Simpson was driving in his Bronco. I remember where I was when OJ Simpson was driving in his Bronco. I remember where I was when the Twin Towers went down. And I remember where I was when Doug Gilmore got stuck in the face by Wayne Gretzky. And I was a Leafs fan back then. I had Doug Gilmore's autograph on a baseball leather cap. But I mean, I've forgiven you. Sorry about your luck, buddy. I appreciate that. Do you get sick and tired of hearing people ask you about that? No, you know what? It's part of history. It's part of hockey history, just like that same year in the finals when I had to measure Marty McSorley's hockey stick in game two,

and it turned the series around. But on that call in the Western Conference final in overtime, and Glenn Anderson ran Rob Blake from behind in overtime, almost put his face through the boards, and I had to call a boarding penalty. So Anderson's in the box. King's on the power play. End zone faceoff. And Gretz took a shot off the faceoff

with the first shot with Gilmore. And it hit Jamie McCowan's shin pad, bounced back into the faceoff circle where they were still standing. And I got blocked. I blinked. And there was a move of the stick, and I thought maybe Gretzky took a shot. And the next thing I know, Gilmore, killer's gut is grabbing his chin.

I kill the play. I go over, and I said, Doug, what happened? He said, Wayne took a shot, and his follow-through hit me in the chin. That's exactly what he said. I said, well, if that's the case, it's not a penalty. But something didn't smell right because Wayne was always there. You know, if he had to protest something, he was first guy in making a case. He snuck off to the side wall, just sort of slinked away.

And the other players from the Leafs were saying, hey, this is, you know, I had suspicion. So I called the two linesmen together. Kevin Collins dropped the puck. Ron Huck Finn was back at the blue line on my side. And I guys help me out i didn't see it what happened huck said i was looking through their back i don't know kevin collins said i'm not sure me you're like are you guys kidding me right now i'm dead i'm dead who's got an iphone let's have a review which sometimes when they show it on in-house we can say let's have a talk about oh sometimes when they show it in-house, we can say, let's have a talk about it.

Oh, yeah, there it is. Okay, we're good. So anyway, I had to eat it. And sure enough, next play, boom, Gretzky scores the winning goal, and I'm dead. Now, we talked about my dad, Hilt Fraser, maniac. So my dad watched every playoff game, and he taped them that I did. I got boxes of tapes.

He died in 2001. I got boxes of VH died in 2001 i got boxes of vhf tapes that he made of the playoffs i call him when i get back home to south jersey hey dad how are you doing he said well we had a little excitement here last night i said talk to me what happened he said well i was sitting uh in my chair i fell asleep in the chair after the game my tighty whitey's on nothing else on and he's he had arms like Popeye, forearms, barrel chest, he had a drum, and he said, about 3.30 in the morning, I heard this ruckus out in the driveway. He said, there was a car. I looked out. He was driving into the back of my mini motorhome, hitting the trailer hitch, back up, bang, bang, bang. I said, what'd you do?

He said, I slid the patio door open. I grabbed the ax at the back of the door for chopping wood, and I chased the guy up the street, and he said, I got a couple in on the back quarter of his car. I said, Dad, that's not good. I said, let me call NHL security. So I call security. They got back to me two days later. They said, yeah, we found out who the guy was. His car's in the body shop getting the axe marks out of the back of his quarter panel. He's a Leafs fan from Kitchener, Waterloo. He drove an hour and a half to Sarnia, Ontario to find Fraser's family home. Thank God my dad didn't get a hold of me.

It would have killed him. So my mom started getting all these obscene phone calls. Oh, God. Your son's a no-good blank effing chicken lollipop. Bud, did you get any anthrax sent to the house? No. Too early in the career at that point. But I said, Mom, here's my whistle.

Like a good hockey mom, she tied it on a skate lace, hung it by the phone. Anytime somebody called up profane, she just hammered them in the ear. The bad call stopped. Had to put Mom in a nursing home for a year before she passed, my brother and I, and the whistle was still hanging on the skate lace on the hook.

Ah, that's awesome. I mean, obviously, sorry about your loss. Thanks. Well, that was a long time ago, but that's part of life, living and dying, but also fans. We talk about fans. Can they be, like, over the top?

Who would drive and try to bang into the back of a guy's car just because his kid screwed up a call? And as Eugene Melnick would say, maybe Leafs fans should just be concerned about them getting their franchise defenseman. There you go. Which, I mean, I'm just stirring the pot right now. Well, they're building the parade, right?

Yeah, because Eugene Melnick, he's a bit off his rocker right now. Isn't he? He is. I mean, I'd be lying if I said I didn't love the drama behind it, because it doesn't affect me. I have no skin in the game, but I feel bad for a lot of us. Well, Mr. Melnick, I'll tell you, he's got a little bit to worry about there too, right? Well, that's why it was just funny that he said that Toronto fans should be worrying about getting a

franchise defenseman that they can't get. Meanwhile, they're slowly imploding. Ottawa had a franchise defenseman, but he's off playing elsewhere now. That's very true. Well, they actually got that one kid. Is it Shabbat? Shabbat, and they got that Branson kid that's supposedly really good.

You had a couple questions, Grinnell? You want to ask the big man? Well, yeah. We had Matthew Barnaby on the podcast today. Crazy guy. But he would always say that he said that he would wear his shitty suit into Philadelphia because the fans would throw beer at him as he was walking into the arena. What cities were kind of the biggest assholes to you? And did you ever get a full beard just drenched in your face, stuff like that?

Two stories. Let's talk about Matthew Barnaby. What a legend. He had a face like a cherub. I thought he was a choir boy until I saw the horn start to stick out of the back of his head. He had the silver tooth, right? The shiny tooth. Well, before that shiny tooth, I had a game and it was a cap and a guy and I'm chasing the play and I had a bad look and there was a guy that reached in with his stick on the back check and Matt's got the puck and he bent over and he grabbed his mouth and he came over to me and he had a broken tooth and he said look he broke my tooth I gave the guy four minutes for high sticking okay Okay? So three or four days later, I've got them again.

See him before? He's got the cap on, nice and shiny. I have a great look on this play. I got a perfect bead, and I see that the guy's stick is at his waist. Matthew bends over. He grabs his face. He pulled the tooth out. He came over to me, and he said, look, he broke my tooth.

I said, you prick. I said, I was the guy three, four days ago. He said, oh, man, I forgot. Sorry. Stuck the tooth back in. That's a pretty good trick. He likes getting, just bring the fake tooth around, get a couple. He's a beauty.

You know, Clody Lemieux uh when peppy won the uh uh consmith trophy devils win the cup games in the northlands coliseum matthew barnaby trash talked he peppy came over to me he's freaking crying he said carrie he said i'm going through a very public nasty divorce and he said matthew barnaby said these things about my wife and they were awful they were like they, you would have even been offended. Yeah, I wasn't down with guys going to personal life stuff. No, no. So anyway, I said, Matthew, get over here.

I said, do you say those things about his wife? Shiny tooth went, yeah, I said those things about his wife. I said, you apologize to this man right now or I'm throwing you out of the game. He said, you can't do that. I said, try me. Gross misconduct. You're gone. I'll try and get you suspended.

Wow. Apologize. He said, I'm sorry. I said, no, no, Matthew. Not good enough. Sincere. Gave another attempt. I said, Claude, you good with that?

He says, I'm good with that. He skated away. I said to Barnaby, Barney, if you ever talk about another man's family, I will throw you out of the game. I'll get you suspended of the game I'll get you suspended yeah I would it was but he's a great guy oh yeah yeah it was just it was just different back then I mean it gets a little cringy when guys go after guys personal life like I wasn't down that I put my head down there's a few things that I've said that I felt that I crossed the line

on that uh um you know uh is it Eric Selleck? Eric Selleck in the minor leagues. I was playing with Manchester at the time, and he was with the Portland Pirates. I won't say what I said, but if you're listening, Selleck, I apologize for what I said. It's never too late to apologize. And you know what, to your point about the worst place where beer gets dumped or that, after the Alain Côté disallowed goal, I went back to Quebec, the old Coliseum, two years later. This is a scary story. And in February, two years later, we had no security there, and they allowed, because it's so cold, they allowed fans to stand at the back door inside

to get autographs as the players walked out to the bus. I'm walking out with linesman Wayne Bonney, just the two of us. We're going to get in his car, drive back to Montreal. And five guys are standing there. And as we walked by, they said, there's Fraser, let's get him. Oh, yeah. Carried my bag over my shoulder. I said, Buckwheat, Wayne, let's get out of here quick. We're out in the parking lot. We got street shoes on, frozen parking lot. I go down, we're done. And they're coming. So I said, Wayne, back to back. And I unzipped my bag, I pulled out my skate. And there's always that one guy, right? That little junkyard dog that,

you know, the leader. I took my skate out. I looked right at him. I gave him the stink eye. I said, you're going to effing die tonight. I'm going to cut your throat. They might get me. You're going to fucking die. And he went. He backed up. I knew I had him. I said, now, we're getting in the car.

You move, you're dead. Just like that. And you think this is because of the no-goal call? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, it was a no-goal call. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I did with Bergy, Michel Bergeron, and Alain Côté, we did a promo for Renault Depot, which is like Home Depot.

They were renovating all their stores. I get a call from a talent agency. They wanted me to renovate my call. In French, renovate means to turn it over. Of course. Yeah. So we did this thing, and we're at the opening. We did a whole bunch of promos and commercials in French and what have you, TV, radio.

Now we open the stores, and people are lined up outside to get autographs. And I'm watching everybody as they're coming, right, because I don't want to get caught off guard if I get suckered. You're going to get maced. Yeah. So here's this little old lady, like Grand Mare, and she's giving me the stink eye as she's coming. She's not having any of my funny stuff. And

she gets to the front. She gets Cotes. Then she does Berge. And she looks at me and she said, I said, Madame? She said, fuck you. I went, oh. And Berge says, hey, Grand Mare, he's a good guy. She said, fuck you. I went, oh. And Bergie says, hey, grand maire, he's a good guy. She said, F him.

He blew the call. She never forgets. They don't know how to let go of a grudge, eh? This is another fan question from a lot of people. The funniest trash talker. Maybe somebody who wouldn't take it over the line, but just every time they opened their mouth, you were laughing at what they were saying to other guys. You know, a couple of guys. Little Rizzling, Gary Rizzling that played with Mario in Pittsburgh.

And Rizz was a tough little guy, fighter, but he had no teeth. And he had an upper and a lower plate. And he took them out and set them, obviously, in the cup in his stall. And he could actually swallow his face for the national anthem. He'd stand on the end of the bench, and he would get me laughing so hard for the national anthem because he would just suck it all in, and his nose would disappear and everything. His chin would just cave in. He'd get me laughing.

The other guy, Steve, last name, just escapes me, but he played for the windsor spitfires and he had a wife he was in dallas um maybe get some help from our producer yeah his his uh what what what years were it was oh this was about 2008-9 um and they were playing carolina and the defenseman for Carolina, Paul Maurice, is coaching the team, and these guys were teammates in Windsor, and Steve's wife that he married from Windsor really liked the other guy and ended up marrying him. Was it Steve Ott? Steve Ott.

Oh, yes. How the fuck did you forget Steve Ott? He's such a funny guy. We're talking about so many names i gotta tell you i'm brain dead but anyway so the puck drops and brendan morrow fights the d-man right off the bat and i go what the hell have i lost control already and find out as steve ott is going by the the carolina bench uh the the d- says, you're just mad because I stole your wife. Now they're getting personal, right?

Ott stopped right in front of the bench. He said, mad? He said, I could kiss you for taking that fat ass, no good, lazy, blah, blah, blah. Well, all the guys on the bench started to laugh. Paul Maurice ducked over down, covered his mouth, he's laughing. And the buddy that had the

wife wasn't laughing at all. So, where do you go from there? We're going to have to get Otter on at one point. But the first time I ever met Steve Ott, he goes, you're probably wondering, and he just told me the story right away. Steve Ott's one of the most down-to-earth, salt-of-the-earth guys. Every guy who's ever played with him

loves him to death. He's having an unbelievable post-career. He's having unbelievable post-career success doing coaching now with, I believe he's with St. Louis, correct? But love you, Otter, and hopefully we can get him on at some point. It's just tough because when they're affiliated with teams now, like this is unbelievable because you can be candid and say whatever. Like people are going to be fucking jerking off to this shit.

Well, as far as Steve Ott goes, I mean, I loved him as a ref because the banter that goes back and forth. I mean, the best coach was Glenn Sather for banter back and forth. Witty guy. And if you can engage in it and you can revel in it as an official and not not take it personally and not get your backup and have to be officious you can have so much fun out there well absolutely because because you are in control and it's it's ultimately um i wanted to ask you about where you think the you know the game is now and maybe as a whole and then from a referee standpoint i know you were working with the league as a senior advisor at one point never never well i thought you were a senior official well i was i mean oh doesn't that mean you call

the shots kind of no i was i would be mentoring young guys that that as a coach just they were working we're teammates you're a d-man i'm the veteran d-man i'm gonna i'm gonna coach you i'm gonna mentor you at stoppages so that's what that title. I thought senior official maybe meant like even when you were done, you were still involved. I was just most senior. I was the guy that was around the longest. But I was four decades with the NHL. And so I saw the game change so many times.

You know, we went from the bench-clearing brawls, which were scary as heck, fights for lasting 25, 30 minutes with everybody on the ice, sometimes coaches fighting on the ice. It was wicked. Don Perry, I had to escort him off the ice one time. You remember he coached Al Agey? And Paul Mulvey wouldn't go out and do a fight, and there was a big deal about that.

So then we went into the stick-swinging era, which was brutal. Guys would turn their stick points down, and they'd be whacking at each other and they'd be like pencils by the time they were done. And then, you know, we had the high stick stuff. We had the obstruction. But the way the game is now,

it's so fast. We came back from 2004 lockout. Missed the whole season. Back in 05, the competition committee that Brendan Shanahan put together when he was playing for the Red Wings with hockey ops and the officiating department representative was Stephen Walkam. And so they came up with a plan that we watched a lot of tape,

and this clutching and grabbing isn't going to go anymore. We've got to clean it up. So there was a big buy-in, all the factions of the game, and the game changed drastically. Fast, fast, fast. Speed, let skill flourish. Don't hold up in the neutral zone. Speed through the neutral zone.

Defensemen didn't like it because they were getting crushed. You couldn't hold them up. But nonetheless, then we started with the high hits because of the velocity that was being generated well that and probably because i mean there's a correlation to the fact that obstruction was no longer allowed no the clutching and grabbing so forwards back then were relied upon to slow up the forecheck and then also the other d partner where it was it was it was less d to d's and more reverses because you would just

hold the guy up, then finally let him go, and then just a quick bump off the wall. Whereas now all of a sudden you can't. Well, guys are coming and flying in with a ton of momentum. And you got velocity that you generate. And what happened was the checks, everybody seemed like they wanted to be on SportsCenter highlight. So it wasn't just about body check for possession of puck it was about making that train wreck hit and so the knees were flexed the ankles were flexed

they were extending up through the check to create velocity but their skates were off the ice and when a guy your size does the the snake uh curl with the knees and ankles flexed and you extend you're going to be up around the guy's head and especially if he's bent over with the knees and ankles flexed and you extend, you're going to be up around the guy's head. And especially if he's bent over with the puck and he could be a six, you know, six, three,

six, four guy, it's just going to happen. And that's where the game started to evolve into the higher dangerous kind of hits. I like where things are now. I was just with Stefan Kintel at the Montreal Canadian fantasy camp. We,

we chatted. He's a great guy. Georgie Peros is taking the lead now, and I think they're really doing some good stuff. The head shots are being minimized. The thing that, and maybe you'll agree with me, I don't like guys being run into the boards from behind. When the numbers are there and they're going face first, I think that is the new dangerous play. Yeah, I think the main problem now is public opinion and the amount of backlash on referees from a game-to-game basis.

We talked about the speed of the game. So back then, it was a lot easier to catch calls because the game was just slower. Nowadays, these guys are flying around because there is no obstruction. And just based on their off-ice training and their diets and the way they take care of themselves, the game has just evolved. And even the technology, the skates they use. So maybe, yeah, some things are going missing in games. Now we've implemented another referee where every time a little call is missed,

they fucking slow it down. They throw it online. And then it's the social justice warriors, you know, attacking these referees where I feel bad for these guys. Well, and I'll tell you what, coaching is really important. Coaching for young players when they come into the league, mentoring with senior players is really important to get them to the top of the speed of the game when you come from the American League.

The NHL has hired, the officiating department has hired guys, one guy never refereed a game before. He was a player, former player, played to the high-level American League and wants to be a referee because there's good money to be made as a referee now or a linesman. And they haven't earned their apprenticeship yet. Therefore, they have to really be coached. And I watch the game differently than you would watch it.

And I see continuous mistakes that are being made over and over and over again. And that's not acceptable. I think that there needs to be better coaching. They need to have video that they're they're looking at with a supervisor a coach that has been there done that because the two referee system is great in the sense that we need it now but what it does is it incubates guys coming up because they're doing it in the minor leagues the the you know from midget on two referees there's never been that one guy out there that's had to deal with all the crap that comes.

So you're saying at those levels, use one referee, that way that guy can absorb more and have more to deal with on a game-to-game basis. Excuse me, God, I struggle with talking sometimes if you haven't noticed. You're doing great. But they need to to learn that way absolutely it's just easy from the start there's no adversity and nothing to have to

problem solve you're not going to learn much let's make the mistakes in the minor leagues before you get to the show there was and i'll give you a classic example there was a situation where a in a shootout not too long ago ovechkin went in, made the move, goalie throws the stick, knocks the puck off Ove's stick, and the referee on the goal line waves it. No goal. Didn't know the rule. That's not acceptable. That is an awarded goal during the course of a shootout.

It's an awarded goal. In the course of a penalty shot, it's a misconduct to the goalie and take a shot over again. If he did it again, he's out of the game. So those are situations that don't happen very often, but these young guys coming in haven't had that kind of tutelage. They haven't had that kind of background, and they're coming in like cold. Yeah, you think they're being put in a tough situation. It is a tough situation.

So you're sympathizing for the guys. Big time. But you know what? You've got to move your feet, too. Just like you, you're not going to stand to take a pass. You're going to move to open ice. And the referees have to position themselves to get the very best angle on a play. You have to have the best sight line.

And if you're a stork with stiff legs and standing in the corner deep, plays at the net. You're not going to see it. And there's too many meetings of the minds. When I was refereeing one guy, we had to make the decision. I wanted to see everything. I had to make a call. I had to make a decision. And I wanted to be in the best position to make the right call. Not always possible, but you have to move your feet.

So you've got to get to open ice. You've got to see the play in advance like Gretzky, like Lemieux did. Not where the players are now. Where are they going to be three, four chest moves down the board? That's a smart way to think about it. You mentioned before we got on air, you and the league had a bit of a falling out. I've been pretty complimentary towards Gary Bettman and the job he's done with the nhl because you have to the amount he's grown it i know fans are bitter about the lockouts and you know the growing pains and and still complain about other things um you you mentioned that you'd

seen an issue with these head hits prior to them now that they're an issue sure this is years back sure five years before i retired, I saw it. The snowball was rolling down the hill. As far as Mr. Bettman, he's done some really good stuff for the league. As a businessman, for the owners, for the players that are earning more money, with expansion in the right markets. I mean, look at Las Vegas, my gosh. It's insane.

So he's really, really done some good stuff. He relies on some people that are his lieutenants that maybe haven't given him the best advice along the way. I think the hockey people, I think there were better decisions that could have been made. Seeing this coming after the return in 2005, where the game started because it was so fast and because of the non-obstruction, the little touches that were being called away from the play and players started to play a little softer maybe because if that was a penalty, a good body check surely would be a penalty. So there was a focus on letting them play, letting them hit, don't take the game away from an officiating perspective. But that translated in the more you let players get away with, the more they're going to cheat, the more they're going to take advantage. So those open ice hits became high. And because of the speed of the game and guys were not looking and not aware of their environment, they were getting blindsided. And oftentimes when they got blindsided. And oftentimes,

when they got blindsided in the head, concussions resulted. So there was a real focus on that. And I warned them that we needed to be vigilant and we needed to pay really close attention to those kinds of hits that were evolving within the game. Because I saw other things over the four decades where if you let it start, the snowball goes down the hill and it's pretty hard to thaw. Well, I mean, you mentioned it. You went through so many different areas of what was bad for the game. Sure. And now we're in a whole different new ball game.

Yeah. I mean, you eliminate one problem and all of a sudden you have another. And so as you said, now all of a sudden these hits are getting higher and higher and guys are dealing with these concussions and going down. So when I retired, I mean, I spoke at the mayo clinic at the hockey hit uh concussion symposium with all the top docs from around the world and and i made my point i'm candid i i tell it like it is and like i feel uh and uh the commissioner took offense to that and you know it's his league and i don't blame him uh i love the game.

He thought that I was disrespecting the game, but I'm not. My job, Biz, was always first and foremost was for player safety. That's what I did. That's what the rules are there for. So my enforcing the rules within reason of entertaining flow and all that stuff, but it was about player safety. So that's where I was speaking from. The last thing I want to do is pick a fight with the giant.

Right, you have to look out for your best interests and communicate your thoughts on it. And it's tough for him because we're in a time where we have a very traditional game where we have a lot of old school fans that still want the game played physically. And we also have a bunch of new school fans who i mean let's let's be honest society's gotten softer and also more intelligent as far as what head trauma can do so they want something and

then the other group of want something else so there's there's there's like a lot of collusion right now there's a lot of uh a lot of arguing about it we're at a weird time we can agree to disagree so my assumption would be he's trying to implement that slowly along the way so these old school fans aren't of a sudden in a culture shock where they're like where the fuck did the physical game go like they got to slowly do it to maybe where it gets to a point where you know the new the new school fans wanted a certain way where it's slowly been introduced to the old school fans that's a good point and And whether that was his thought process, I'm not sure, or the hockey ops thought process. But they've continually moved in the right direction. And really, they're where I would have wanted them to be a little faster. But that being said, you

know, Craig Button, who was a general manager of the league, and you worked with the TSN as I did, and Craig is a wonderful human being, but we had a conversation, and he said, you know, Kerry, we can disagree as hockey guys, and old school guys, and modern guys, and certain general managers, you know, the Doves and the Hawks. He said, we can disagree on the physicality aspect of the game, but one thing that we shouldn't disregard or disagree on is the medical evidence that we now know that's different from before. And that's really what this is all about. Yeah, I mean, I've been a pretty big speaker as far as CBD is concerned and marijuana.

That's a completely different issue. But as you said, you can't ignore the science aspect of it. We know what we know because of that. Let's now make changes now. Let's stop delaying it because we can save lives or help guys. I mean, another guy we talked about

before the interview was Savard. And he went down with that nasty concussion. The guy had to live in a fucking dark room for a couple of years. That was Matt Cook, the chicken winged him right right square in the head, and Matt was a predator hitter. But he was allowed to do it.

Cronwall in Detroit, great defenseman. But the commentators, when he laid out a guy with a big hit and he'd do a reverse hit and jump. Called it Cronwall. He got Cronwalled. And I look at you know and i look at you and you had a good career you're a tough guy you played hard you you gave it every shift and there appears to be nothing wrong with you yeah yeah no i did it the right way i was fortunate

i want to ask you about one last thing i want to talk to you about that brett hall uh goal that shouldn't have counted and and how crazy that year was because you mentioned you were in a meeting at the start of the year where all of it changed for one year of the the foot in the crease yeah i we've had so many goals disallowed that were just like guys standing on the opposite side of the crease with his toe in the crease and goal scored disallowed and on that cup that has all of the dozen stanley cups that i worked uh i was scheduled to do game seven in that one. Between Buffalo and Dallas. Yeah, and I'm listening to it because I had a charity event.

I'm listening to it on the radio, driving back, and I think I'm trying to visualize this. And, like, wow, when I saw the replay, there were so many goals that were disallowed where there was less in the crease. Buffalo fans are going to be cringing listening to this. So anyway, how this all came to be was at training camp, and it was the referees sitting in a room with Brian Burke,

vice president of hockey ops. I love Berkey. And Brian Lewis, referee-in-chief, and he's taking notes. And so Terry Gregson said, listen, something drives me crazy. He said, we've got a rule in the book that says if an attacking player is in the crease and a goal is scored, the goal must be disallowed. It doesn't say it might be. It says it must be. And we're using good common sense where if the player in the crease doesn't interfere in any way with the goalkeeper, we allow the goal to stand.

any way with the goalkeeper, we allow the goal to stand. And classic worst example is goalie up top of the crease and a guy skates behind him, never touches him through the crease. The shot goes in, we allow the goal and then the sports broadcasters crucify us with an overhead camera shot and say, look at this, the guy's in the crease, rule says. So he said, like, what do you want us to do? Berkey said, well, what's the rule? The rule is you can't be in the crease. He said, well, then disallow the goal. I said, okay, so no common sense here, right? It's not about cause and effect.

We're going to letter of the rule. He said, well, I guess so. That's what the rule says. I said, okay, what's the crease? Define the crease. Is it the line or is it the blue paint? He said, well, the line must be part, and I used reference of the blue line and the red line, offside and offside pass. I said, is the line part of the crease?

He said, yeah, I guess it is. part of the crease? He said, yeah, I guess it is. So I said, if a guy has his toe on the line, like I'm taking it to the, I want them to make some common sense decision here. I said, if his toe is on the line, is that in the crease?

He said, yeah, I guess it is. Because Terry Gregson said, you can't be half pregnant. Either you're pregnant or you're not. Which is a crazy thing, because the play could be on the completely other side. There could be a battle towards the net, and the guy's toe could be on the other side in the crease, and it's just for whatever reason, no common sense, just no goal. And we had so many disallowances.

How long did you battle in that room for? Oh, 45 minutes at least to an hour. And then you just said, fuck, fine, concede, concede. Either change the rule, change the language in the rule, which they couldn't at that point. So we changed our the way that we ruled on it, our philosophy. So Buffalo Sabres fans, we're

going to send out Brian Burke's email and we're actually going to put his phone number. And who knows, maybe that same person that attacked your family's home wouldn't mind driving to Burke's place. Good luck with that. Still got that ax?

Yeah. I saw Berkey play in the American League when he was in the Flyers organization, and he was a pretty tough guy. Oh, I know. He looks like a tough bastard. He's a mean bugger. Yeah, but he's a person. Anything else you want to talk about? I mean, we've been going for how long here, Mikey?

About an hour. Yeah. Is that good? Hey, listen, I'll tell you i i'm living life uh the the my health and people's health is really important so please take care of yourself enjoy the game the game is great um you know we can always agree to disagree and i think that's the thing we don't have to we don't have to be like in your face kind of my way is the highway. You know, Brian Murray, God rest his soul, when he was coaching in Washington,

it wasn't cool for the referees to go to the bench and talk to the coaches. We were told to stay away. And Brian Murray was a very emotional guy. And he was getting bench penalties all over the place constantly from the refs because he'd yell and scream he was flamboyant and this game in the in the cap center he's up on the boards he's screaming and flapping his arms and I thought I gotta have a word with right yeah you gotta I want to talk to him so I skated over and he's all emotional and and I this this means peace right so I said with the sign of peace and and calm monotone voice, I said, Brian, I'd love to talk to you, but you've got to calm down, please. I need you off the boards as well. Boom. He came right down to my emotional level, and I said, listen, you may not agree with what I have to tell you, but this is what I saw or didn't see or why I made the decision.

he said, well, Kerry, you're right about one thing. I don't agree with what you just said, but thanks for coming over and talking to me. And boom, we started a relationship and we could agree to disagree as gentlemen. And no different than high hits or dangerous hits, it's okay to disagree. That's why Heinz has 57 flavors. We can agree to disagree and we don't have to hate somebody because we don't agree with what they think. Well, don't go on Twitter then. They hate me. That's okay. I'm going to go read your mentions after this.

Well, man, we've got to thank you for stopping by. This was incredible. Not often do I do interviews by myself, but you made it so easy. You get to carry the play. Well, hey, let's get him back on when Ryan's here. Oh, yeah. I think it's a given i gotta tell you and i mean this sincerely because i saw you at tsn you are doing awesome i i watch your podcast and and you've got you've really got it nailed here i appreciate you guys thank you did you give uh lara love you long time a follow on instagram after we talked about it on the call my My wife would not go for that. It's called delete.

Jake, did you clear the search history out of your Google? Yeah. Oh, boy. Hey, thanks again. And Paul Mitchell. Paul Mitchell, flexible style, fast drying, sculpting spray. Paul Mitchell, call BizMasty and I, and we're going to get something going here. Oh, you think this is not going to happen?

You're sadly mistaken, folks. We are going to be selling hair products. I'm going to have to grow out my capelles. I'm going to have something going here. Oh, you think this is not going to happen? You're sadly mistaken, folks. We are going to be selling hair products. I'm going to have to grow out my capelles. I'm going to have to grow them out. I got shitty hair, Fridge. Well, listen, you know, when I put a helmet on, they made me. Oh, yeah. We didn't even talk about that.

No, and Bill Daley, I love Bill Daley, the director, vice president of the NHL. We're sitting in the last collective bargaining agreement I'm part of, and he passes their proposal, first proposal over to our lawyer sitting beside me. With one page, back page, he slips over to me. I read it. It says, all officials, regardless of tenure, will wear a helmet and a visor for the duration of this collective bargaining agreement.

Did your heart sink? I ripped it in half. I slid it back to him. I said, non-negotiable. Shows you what kind of a negotiator I am. I started the season with a helmet. You did a little spoof video with James Duthie. It was awesome.

Did you actually miss a few games at the start of the year? I shattered my big toe just before training camp. the start of the year i shattered my big toe just before training camp i was carrying our our daughter was a doing uh work at bar harbor maine uh undergrad in marine biology and not a big day not a big not a big deal but i carried this big tv and i'm coming down and i just had knee surgery a little scope to get the uh debris cleared out and my left knee gave out as i'm on the stairs going down the basement. Barefoot. I jam my right foot looking for the step, but I saved the TV as I'm going down the stairs.

And I get to the bottom of the stairs, and I have this bee sting in my toe. And I looked at it, and my big toe was going this way. Not a big deal. And I said to my wife, Kathy, I said, Kathy, give it a pull. I said, it's dislocated. She said, I'm not touching that thing. So anyway, they get me to the hospital, x-ray. The toe, the joint was splintered all over the place.

It was shattered. So glad she didn't pull it. But people probably assumed that you were holding out because of the helmet. So then Duffy calls me and he said, hey, listen, are you up for doing a spoof? I said, absolutely. Come on over. They flew in. We had beer and sandwiches in my kitchen that night.

We wrote the script that night. We started shooting like six o'clock in the morning. Got a helmet with a visor. Talked to Simone Gagné and we were all over the place. I ordered a hot dog

from a vendor in Philly and the guy looked at me like I was crazy. I had the helmet and the visor on. Fuck. Well, the rest is history. That's an unreal story. James Duffy's an unbelievable guy, too.

He's the best. Funny fucker. Thank you again. We're probably going to try to end this, but then we'll just probably come up with another six stories. Don't ask me another question or give me another guy's name because the story flashes in. Okay, let's save it for next time. Kerry Frazier, ladies and gentlemen, hope you enjoyed this one. Check out his book, too.

Check out his book, The Final Call, Hockey Stories from a... It's called a legend. Shitbag asshole. Hockey Stories from a shitbag asshole. Awesome. Love it. Love it. That interview was also brought to you by SeatGeek.

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your first SeatGeek purchase. SeatGeek, right seat, right now, right from your phone. Once again, thanks to Kerry Frazier, my new best friend, and he's going to be a reoccurring guest for sure. Love the energy he brought. Boys, speaking of characters, Don Sherry is at it again. He wasn't too happy with Kuznetsov celebration does the bird celebration for his daughter i mean i don't even think it's that like is it that flamboyant

i think it's kind of funny and i love that all these guys have their own little celebrations now and to be quite frank like i don't even know where i sit with don sherry anymore obviously i respect everything he's done he's a legend I believe he should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame, but I'm kind of torn between is he doing this just to kind of stay relevant when he says all this fucking weird shit and he has this outrageous

outtakes, or is he just really that senile? I think he's just an old guy and they put in front of a camera and he's going to say what he's going to say. I don't think he really has the forethought of, like, okay, this is content for later. I'm going to say this to stir people up. I think he's just fucking old guy and they put in front of a camera and he's going to say what he's going to say i don't think he really has the forethought of like okay this is content for later i'm going to say this to stir people up i think he's just fucking old he's i don't i'm not saying the word senile but guys get old they do lose their fucking faculties up top a little and you know if they have a inclination to maybe be um i don't i know he's had some issues with european players over

the years uh you know when they get older i think older people tend to be a little more mean maybe and they kind of say things that they really don't want to. I just chalk it up to, like, he's like somebody's old grandfather. You kind of take what he says with a grain of salt, and you really can't get too mad about it. He's fucking, what, 80 years old? He also, I mean, this guy's a god in Canada. Don Cherry's going everywhere, and he's a, I mean, also,

he had some pretty cool tweets defending the police I saw up there in Canada. I don't know what the exact story was, but I saw him sending some tweets about the police and some other things. When I say he's a god, I mean, everywhere Don Cherry goes, people are stopping. I get a picture of Don Cherry, dude, and he's a great guy. And I think that he just says whatever he wants. He's always done it, and no one's talking back to him. If they do, it's not right to his face It's people online and people

Like saying you know writing things He doesn't care I think this guy gives a Fuck he's an old legend That talks about what he wants to talk about If you don't agree with him don't agree with him He doesn't care one bit he's going to give you his opinion And I think that's probably a pretty sweet Way to live

Yeah I mean listen boys I love Don Sherry I think he's funny I used to watch the Rock' Yeah, I mean, listen, boys, I love Don Sherry. I think he's funny. I used to watch the Rockham Sockhams. I mean, I guess my only concern is he's kind of like the face of hockey in Canada where, you know, all these up-and-coming kids are watching Hockey Night in Canada, and he's ripping all this fun shit. I mean, hey, listen, I wasn't down with the Canes thing. Am I going to go and stomp and kick my feet about it?

No, I just wouldn't do it if I was on the team, but I'm not going to be like, you know, shitting on our national television regarding the celebration thing. I mean, I don't know. Does he even do any research? He,

Kuznetsov does it because his daughter loves it. And when his daughter's watching the games and he does it, she goes bananas. Like, but buddy, I'm a, I'm a sap. You guys,

every time you guys tell an emotional story on the pod, I'm crying. You think if my daughter wants the bird dance after my goals, I'm not doing the bird dance? I'm doing the fucking bird dance. I think he has Kuznets off. He knows he's rushing. He sees him doing that, and it's just fucking easy for him to go at him.

Yeah, it's like you're playing into your fans. I mean, you're kind of playing who you are, and I think that he loves doing that stuff. I mean, dude, you bring Don Cherry, you wake Don Cherry up in some mornings. Imagine if you could tell him it's back and it's like the Canada Cup and Henderson's got, it's game eight tonight in Moscow.

Like, dude, that guy lives for that shit. Hey. That is never going away. No, on the other side of it, if I had a daughter and she's like, I want you to get in a Big Bird outfit and do a dance for me every time you score, I'm fucking doing it. As far

as young players, Biz, honestly, millennials don't give a fuck what he says. He's 85 years old. Millennials don't care what 45 year old people say, let alone 85 year old guys. Wait, is a millennial, what's a 16 year old? We're technically a millennial, but we don't act like one right now. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know if they have a new name for those. It's like Generation Z or something. Okay, so here's a prime example that when they say they use like millennial numbers, like millennials are not getting married as quickly as they used to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like they're not buying as big a homes, like they're being smarter about the square footage that they actually. Any homes.

as big a homes like they're being smarter about the square footage that they actually any homes another pro an issue to me is they consume a shit ton of uh frozen food the frozen food industry that you know shit you just pop in the microwave has skyrocketed over like the last 10 years so that's not a good thing uh what's another thing more and and typically millennials a lot of them are just like offended by everything. They don't work as hard. They're not as hard working, right? There's so many easy ways to make money now. They just think it's, I don't know, maybe I'm ripping millennials too much.

I'm considered a millennial, but I don't act like one. Yeah, you're on the highest scale millennials. Grinnelli's on the lower end. But yeah, either way, I don't think that they give him much of a shit what Cherry says. He's just an institution up there. I think they're going to keep him on until he either retires or he says something truly bad that they're going to have to just let him go. And the older he gets, the more likely that is to happen, frankly.

When I was at Sportsnet for a little bit that year, you walk through the main Hockey Night in Canada set and just that whole setting. He's a legend. If he's walking through the hallway, everyone's like looking at him. It's fucking Don Cherry. Rock them,

sock them. Remember? I, I saw like the first one was like, rock them, suck them 12. I was like, there's been 11 more of these.

I, what a dog. Let's go. Like there's 11 more of these. I can watch like, yeah. Blockbuster only has two and nine, though. I saw him once, but I couldn't bother him for an autograph.

It was actually, sorry to bring it up, but it's the night that Detroit won the cup in Pittsburgh, and I was looking for the locker room, and I opened the door, and I seen, like, the Garris suit and, like, the Hockey Night in Canada thing, and I was like, oh, fuck, John Cherry. But, like, I was like, fuck, man, I got to find the cup. So I didn't even bug him for a picture. Yeah, it's gone.

Yeah, I'll get back to you. I think if it were all Boston, he would have loved it. He still loves Boston. You're like a living movie of Wayne's world. You just, like, find yourself in these crazy situations all the time. Where, like, no offense to you, you're just, like, your common fan, right? Like, I mean, like, oh, you end up in all these cup parties after these game sevens, and then all of a sudden you walk in the room and don cherry's there the hockey like how like how do you find

yourselves in these situations all the time uh snake it till you make it man he just uh the key to it is acting like you're supposed to be there that's what i did that night in pittsburgh and no one no one bothered me until that fucking guy tossed me out of the room and he had chelios backing him up but um yeah you just gotta like i don't i think it's a combination of streets much just like playing the situation and yeah. Pretending like you're supposed to be there. That's how you used to be able to like fake and just scam your way into so many more things. Like now,

like you need to get like passes stamped and fucking swiped and not all right. Someone credit card swipes your hoop. Like everyone's checking everything out now to go anywhere. R.A., what do you mean not R.A.? It's like this is like this was what, 10 years ago the last time you did this? Oh, you don't believe in R.A.'s sneaking into things, his potential and what he can keep bringing? I think now that he could probably still do it, but 15 years ago he could do way more, dude. We should do a content piece where we all go to

the stanley cup finals with new amsterdam vodka but ra gets none of the passes and let's see if he can make it to where we're at hey all of a sudden he's next to don sherry and ron mclean when we're looking at i'm passing around re's picture to the security guards don't let this guy in i'm trying to block you oh He'll be there before you are, man. He's like the guy in Oceans 12 that goes through the laser machine. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. He's just like dipping and dodging the lasers.

The Asian guy, he did like seven backflips. No, he was the French guy. Remember the French guy who ends up stealing it, but when he steals it, it was the fake one because they'd already replaced it? Come on, wake it up with your movies. I was thinking of the Asian that hung out in the big vault. Yeah, that's another scene. Like a girl that Biz was in New York City with.

Hey, quickly, boys. I got a couple tweets today, and I just wanted to give a quick couple stats. Someone on Twitter, hey, Stack, I wit. When's the last time a team had a plus 100 or more goal differential in a single season? As of right now, the Lightning are sitting at plus 100. You know when the last time it was? It was 2005, 2006 when the Ottawa Senators were plus 103 on an 82 game season and you know what happened? Witt ran into them

in the first round and got warped over so I saw that team in action they were a wagon. The second tweet I got that I wanted to maybe throw out I kind of appreciated the questions and I gotta thank my boy Lawrence Goldstein at NHL Network. LG is the man he's our stack guru

he makes stack. I'm stat junior. Witt junior compared to LG. But the other tweet I got was, hey, stack guy Witt, assuming Dreitzel hits 100 points, he needs one more. So most likely. Thanks for the info, Matt. When's the last time a team, if ever, had two 100-point scores

and missed the playoffs? Do you know when that was, you guys? Wow, that's a great question. 89-90 with the Pittsburgh Penguins and Mario Lemire and Paul Coffey, who's defenseman. 100 points. Thanks for coming. So two pretty cool stat answers to a couple interesting questions,

so thanks for letting me know. And, yeah, I couldn't believe that. 89-90 is a long time ago so to confirm too i've used this one on the i use this one on the edmonton broadcast when the coyotes were playing edmonton you said that uh the last time a player had three consecutive hundred point seasons was jeremy ronick correct i said there was like three guys or whatever i could find that stat we gotta listen it, but I have it written down somewhere. Okay. Because I dropped it on the broadcast.

Somebody said it was wrong? No, no, no. I would imagine somebody was listening if it was. It was like, this guy's a fucker. No, if I just say something in the middle of a conversation, there's a 50-50 chance it's not true. But if I do stack eye wit, guys, I'm reading something that's true. You're going to kill us?

I'm not telling the truth based on the beginning of the entire statement. Boys, real quick, I just wanted to talk to you about NetSuite for a second. Every company battles challenges as they grow, updating manual processes, replacing inefficient systems, getting a handle on cash flow. As you scale, you need software that can handle that growth. So we're going to introduce you to NetSuite by Oracle. It's the business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy-to-use cloud platform. With NetSuite, you can save time, money, and unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance, and accounting, orders, and HI instantly right from your desk or even your phone. Thousands of the best-known brands and fastest-growing companies use NetSuite to manage their business, and now it's available to you.

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slash chicklets now. Download their free Crushing the Five Barriers to Growth guide today at netsuite.com slash chicklets. One more time, netsuite.com slash chicklets. Actually, we were just talking about the team on the potential decline. What about the Pittsburgh Penguins? They're going the opposite way. You know, after hanging around the wildcard spots for most of the season, the Penguins, led by the play of the inimitable Sidney Crosby, surged up the standings to get within three points of the defending champion Capitals. But I'd say more importantly, the play of Matt Murray has been outstanding. He had an incredible match, 8-2-3 with a 9-3-5 save percentage,

led the league in wins. He had the second-best save percentage. It was funny. I was researching him a little bit. Exactly four years ago this month, he had an incredible match with the – what is it? I was going to say Scranton Wilkes-Barre. Wilkes-Barre, Scranton Penguins, four years ago. Wilkes-barre wilkes-barre scranton penguins

four years ago very penguins you know the song i brought up that's right he went seven one and one with a one two one and a nine five five save percentage three shutouts just in that month so it seems like this kid raises his game when he needs to later late in the year i have that philosophy that these guys they just, they can't get up really for games early in the season, and they peak at the right time every year. And Murray was rubbish at the start of the year. They had, I think they kind of, I wouldn't say put him on the shelf, but gave the backup goalie a few starts in a row

to get Murray back into things. DeSmith, right? DeSmith was playing a decent amount. Yeah, he was playing a decent workload for a backup, and people were, you know, of course, the, oh, we shouldn't have traded Fleury thing comes about, but, I mean, it's just like, hey, the guy got you a couple cups. Like, simmer the fuck down, man.

It's a bad 20-game stretch here. Don't hit the panic button. And I mentioned those moves that Rutherford, those little subtle moves that Rutherford makes. I mean, he made the one where he got Bukestad, I believe is how you pronounce it, and McCann from Florida. And McCann's been fucking awesome. He's been fucking motor.

And then they ended up getting kind of their new Ian Cole. I mean, Ian Cole was, you know, kind of couldn't find a home anywhere. You know, St. Louis didn't want him, and all of a sudden he went over to Pittsburgh and had success. Well, they go get Gabranson. Vancouver fans weren't crazy about him either, so it seems like he goes and finds these pieces where these guys can't find homes, and he

puts them in the Penguins' lineup and they have success. So, Whit, I'm liking the Pens. Yeah, get Malkin going again, get him back and going. I mean, it's like, I've said it, I don get him back and going. I mean, it's like I don't – I've said it. I don't think anyone's going to beat Tampa, but if Tampa ends up somehow playing the Penguins in the playoffs,

I don't know, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Murray when he's going, they could beat anyone. I mean, it's like you – I don't think they're going to win the Stanley Cup this year, but if they do, it's not completely shocking because they're main guys. So I think it's exciting for Penguins fans to at least be seeing some good hockey leading in. We were talking about San Jose's the other way. But the Penguins look good.

Dana Hines, he actually has his Twitter been getting more followers since we talked about it, Biz. Because people tweet me a lot of his stuff now. Pretty cool. He takes good stuff. Yeah, he does. A lot of people are thanking us just for the behind-the-scenes look. He's unlike anyone else. Yeah. Remember when

he got to Pittsburgh and he had 75 signs? We're like, this is unbelievable. This guy's working two extra hours every time we get in somewhere to make it feel like everything's Pittsburgh. Yeah. Home. Yeah, if you take a home locker room.

And, you know, those numbers on McCann, since he's gotten over to the Penguins, he's been there 27 games, 11 goals and five assists. I mean, that's three more goals than he had in 46 games with the Panthers before this. So just a nice little subtle pickup. You know, Bukeseg's not a bad player either. I don't think he's had as much success as McCann has since going over. He's played in 27 games with seven goals and four assists for 11 points.

So, hey, a couple of good little pieces. A couple of good little pieces also. I know this is random, but I'm watching Philly play Toronto right now. And a little shout out to JVR, who's a friend of the program, good guy. In his last 33 games, he got 20 goals. So that's at a pretty insane pace. And having him out for most of the year hurt the scumbag Flyers. So good to see that he's lighting it up.

Not to completely change the subject on you, but Tyler Sagan, with the Dallas Stars, they go on a Canadian road trip. This guy pussy flares every Canadian city. This guy's dick's going to fall off if he's doing that. Canadian cities, you don't think they know? Yeah, they line outside the hotel. You should be doing that in Columbus, Nashville, somewhere so random

where you can go and nobody knows you are. If like Sagan's like, hey, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, I'm going to see you. It's just like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Get the Costco pack of rubbers. Holy shit. This guy's going to be kicking tires. He's going to be making tires.

He had such a sick goal in Winnipeg the other night. I ate that Heskinen. I never say his name right. Gave him like a dish. He took it like it was too far in front of me. He was off the post. Like just collected the puck with his foot, brought it in, shelved it up top like water bottle.

I'm like fucking Sagan. Made up for that empty netting. That's a loft on a stick. That puck just goes straight up. Like the angles he can find on the goalie, man. It's banana lands. But, yeah. Banana hog.

So, I mean, anyone got a good-looking girl in Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver, wherever they went on that team. Hey, guess what, honey? I got us tickets. We're going down to California for the weekend. It'd be like that scene at a...

It'd be like that, yeah. It'd be like that scene at a semi-pro when the guy's like, no, no, you can crush my old lady. Let me just watch. Let me make a bag of popcorn. It's like back in the day, Edelman, Gronk, and Sagan walked into a bar in Boston, and guys are just headlocking their girlfriends, running out of the street, running out the door.

Take the ice pick and just poke their eyes out. Oh, I slipped. Oh, G, I got to ask you about something that you talked about the other night when we had a couple cocktails in us by the way i broke my seat boys i'm so rattled that i wasn't with the fellas like seeing you guys hang out i was like fuck the where's why isn't wit there but you gee you talked about the the one night you guys were at a house party and uh smash smash and Smash Mouth stopped by the party. I have a Smash Mouth story too, sort of. Oh, no, it's like, no, go ahead, Mikey.

Yeah, so they came up to Plymouth State, played a concert, and after they showed up to my buddy's house and we partied there with them. And then they, like, 2 a.m. rolls around and I have a bang on my door. And who is it? It's like the drummer and like a bunch of guys from smash mouth being like hey like we heard you guys are still up and partying here like any chance we can come in and hang out so like they came in and we kicked it with smash

mouth how much of a non-rock star are you we were going on brian yandos bachelor party dude this was like 2004 i think he's been married 40 years it was all of our crew back home, and we were talking about like what – I think a couple guys were flying out Thursday night, a couple guys Friday morning, and we were just like shooting the shit, like what's going on Friday night, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And our buddy falls. He's like, guys, dead serious. He's like, this is unreal.

We're staying at the Hard Rock. Hard Rock was the spot, by the way, rehab pool party. That's, I don't even know if it's still going on either way. But it's my buddy's like, yeah, guys, dude,

I saw that at hard rock smash most playing Friday night. We can go to that concert and then go out. I'm like, falls, dude. So falls the diehard smash mode fan. We're like, ah,

dude, we're going to go to a pool party and then get a table and maybe have dinner if like three of us are feeling hungry. Like we're all set. We'll see you after the Smash Mouth concert. Somebody once told me that. I thought you were sonking me, but then you started with the superstar. We got to talk about this Dowdy situation.

This guy's just putting everybody on blast. It's like the Drew Dowdy roast reverse. He should get a job at Boston Water and Sewer the way he was sewering half the league the other day in his interview. Yeah, Drew Dowdy wasn't shy with his opinions after Monday's morning skate up in Calgary before the Kings game with the Flames. I don't know if he had a rough weekend or if his frustration with the year just boiled over, you know, a shit team he's been having shit year.

But he gave some great copy to the reporters. First, he gave some praise to Mark Giordano, but then he took some swipes at Bernsie and Carlson. It just seemed weird. He said, you know, I watched Brent Burns get beat 20 times a game. That's how I base it. They're not the first penalty-killing guys talking about Burnsy and Carlson. He was just taking these shots at them.

But the real stuff was about Matthew Kachuk. He said, no respect for him, none. I respect everyone else. I'll never talk to him off the ice. He said, nobody respects him in the league. He's entertaining for you guys, but he's not respected by most of the people in the league. It's not just me.

That's just a fact. I mean, I don't know how much of a fact that is. He just seemed like he was pissed off, bitter, shitting on Burns, Carlson, Kachuk. I don't know. He pretty much hit for the cycle. What do you think of those comments, Biz? Well, first of all, he did say some complimentary things to Burns and Carlson, and that kind of got swept under the rug just because of the negative aspect

of the interview. And then, of course, everyone tweets the negative things because that's going to drive the traffic. So let's not ourselves throw Drew Doughty of the interview. And then, of course, everyone tweets the negative things because that's going to drive the traffic. So let's not ourselves throw Drew Doughty under the bus. So, as I said, he was complimentary to those guys, said they're insane offensively. He just said that, you know, they get roasted sometimes, like two or three times a game.

I mean, fuck, Drew Doughty just doesn't give a shit. What else is new? And, I mean, him and Kachuk have a history. And, I mean, if I'm Kachuk, I really don't look too much into it because if he's saying that, then that means you're doing exactly everything you should be to piss off the opposing player's best defenseman. Now, I needed a LA Kings-Calgary playoff series in my veins about, I don't know, yesterday.

Like, could you imagine? And I pray that L.A. figures things out and turns things around and these two teams meet next year because this would be an electric factory. Yeah, it would. It would. I think that Dowdy's been a long year, dude. At one point he goes, what the fuck do I know? I'm like minus 29, so I'm paraphrasing there.

But you can tell it's just been a guy. The guy's a gamer. He's sick and tired of having the season that he's, that they're having and he's having, I mean, he's pissed off. And I think it was kind of shocking to throw a little shade at those guys. I mean, I know he did, as you said it, he, he, he said that they're great. They're great offensively and things like that, but I don't know. I mean, there's no need to do it.

I like the fact that he did just because it's entertaining, but the hate towards Kachuk is weird that he's so vocal about it because it obviously lets Kachuk know he does a great job. If I'm Kachuk, I'm like, I love that. Actually, I shouldn't say I because I was not'm kachuk i'm like i love that like actually i shouldn't say i because i i was i was not like you chuck i didn't play with any fucking nastiness like that but for him he's probably like this isn't like this is awesome like what i get the one of the best defense but he's a hall of famer and he hates my guts like is that not good and it's to the point now i'm wondering if like

maybe kachuk crossed the line by saying something i know that's it's it's to the point now i'm wondering if like maybe could chuck cross the line by saying something i know that's it's that's what i mean he was just the third time he's like brought him up yeah yeah obviously it's and every time it's escalated so he must keep doing what he's doing on the ice i mean with video nowadays you gotta think he's maybe like has he tried to injure him maybe yeah Yeah, well, that hit that started the whole thing was a blindside hit a little away from the puck. That's what really pissed him off. And then it's gotten worse and worse.

That's a long grudge. I was interested to see when the Ottawa media asked Brady about it. I was like, how do you answer this as a brother? And it was a great answer by Brady. I didn't know. I was like, I wonder how he'll answer this. And then he did say, he's like, well, it means he's doing his job. By the way, that kid's like,

Brady, I hope you don't take this as an insult. It's like, you're Will Ferrell. It's a good thing, buddy. You're funny as shit. You've got a better body than him by a little bit. But he's just like, hey, I think that means you're doing a good job. You just got a haircut. I think that past Joe made him finally get a fucking haircut.

So it was just funny to see. The Kachuk brothers just pissing people off at scoring goals just like their old man. Oh, but the one thing I will say is nothing sucks more than when, like, you like a lot of guys that are involved and they hate each other. It's kind of like the Reeves-Wilson situation for me. They're both awesome guys, and I both want to grab beers with them off the ice.

Same with Dowdy, same with Burns and Carlson. But, like, here's the thing now, Whit. What if you end up in the same room with them, and they're at the opposite ends of the room? Who are you going to go grab beers with? Now, all of a sudden, it's like you pick one side or the other. That's why I hate this shit. Yeah, I think if you just got to skate your lane

and people are going to be pissed at whoever, but some things you just got to stay out of. But yeah, Matthew Kachuk definitely has some serious real estate in his head. I know he was a little bit complimentary, but he was more negative, I thought. He said basically that Burns and Carlson didn't have anything close to his defensive upside. He said Burns and Carlson, they don't shut down the other team's top lines. They play against second, third and fourth lines.

I respect all the other guys we're talking about. I respect their games. I just don't think they play enough defense. All you've got to do is watch one San Jose Sharks game. You'll see Brent Burns get beat three times a game. That's a separate quote, get beat three times a game, literally.

And everyone has them up for the Norris. I just don't get it. So, you know, it was pretty fucking pointed, pointed comments. I thought. And, uh, coming from you know, it was pretty fucking pointed, pointed comments. I thought. And coming from a guy, I spent three years in the LA Kings organization,

quick humble brag, not a big deal. And we used to watch a ton of their games and he is a complete defenseman. Like he plays with an edge. He plays physical. He kills penalties. It pays power play like there. I mean, I know he hasn't had the best year this year but not a lot of weaknesses in dowdy's game and a lot of people always make

the argument like oh you know carlson's getting 80 points it's like i know but he's you know he's a riverboat gambler too and he and chances are going back the other way and that's not taking anything against carlson because he's a fucking elite world-class defenseman but when you're talking about winning a norris like i want to see somebody who can play defense and then also put up points while doing so. Another guy to me who on a consistent basis is Oliver Ekman-Larsen. This guy's got six straight season double digits in goals. Only season –

Well, yeah, but he's got the riverboat gambler with him. I mean, tied to him. Who? Ekman-Larsen. Fuck no, dude. He's fucking him? Who? Ekman Larson. Fuck no, dude. He's fucking no.

Oh, come on, bro. You think he's a liability defensively? You think I don't think he's a liability, but I don't think

Brent Burns is a liability either. I think that he may as a riverboat gambler and it's it's not going to be like Dodie or Giordano,

but Ekman Larson to me isn't like the elite defensive guy. Oh, but he breaks up plays. You don't spend enough time watching all of Rick and Larson. You know what, that could be the case where I don't see a ton of them

and I know that I've seen big plus minuses and minuses, blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, they've been bad teams. But I've always never thought of him on the level as a really big two-way defenseman. I've thought of him as Burns and Carlson. Right, because he doesn't pop out to you as far as his numbers i mean he does like i said he double digits and goals uh six years in a row he's had back-to-back 20 goal seasons i know but that has nothing to do with what we're

talking about right and let me transition so he doesn't pop out to you with the carlson numbers he's always like in the 40 plateau between the 40 and 50 range. Excuse me. He plays with the Phoenix Coyotes, and he's going against top lines every night. In order to do that and also play against those top lines and shut them down, he doesn't do it with, like, bone-crunching hits. He's just so intelligent, always in the right spot, good stick on pucks. He's a good two-way defenseman, more so than Brent Burns. I think the Norris has gotten really too far away from the defensive part of the game too, Biz.

It's just basically, they're just voting on offensive defensemen now. That's all it seems like. Not true. Correct. That's exactly what I'm saying. Not true. Not fucking true. Wait, Dowdy won it a couple years ago, and everyone was fucking up. And fucking Charo won one, and Lidstrom won a bunch, and Duncan Keith won.

Right, but I think what R.A. is saying is that a lot of people online are barking like, oh, this guy had 20 more points than him. It's like, who gives a shit? Can he fucking play deep? I'm not saying I agree with, just to clarify, it's just that, I mean, that's the way it's trending. It's just that everything's about offense, which is ironic because they're playing

defense. I think maybe it's time for another one, maybe for a defensive D-man. Like, what I think a Norris Trophy winner is, is a 55 to 60 point defenseman where players on other teams are like, fuck, I got to play against this guy. Shea Weber, he ain't fun to play

against. I agree. I think of Norris as 55 to 65 and just I'm not even saying physical but just like fuck this guy's so good can't get around him block shots

plays all special teams I remember Johnny Leclerc told me that they in the finals against Detroit it was the Legion of Doom him Renberg and Eric Lindros and they were like so fired up running through the east they ran into Detroit and it was Lidstrom and Larry Murphy. He's like, neither guy really even was that physical at all,

and they were so fucking good with their sticks. We could not do a thing. That's Lindstrom. You would – a fourth liner, at least the guys who were dumping the pucks in, would try to dump it by him, and he'd be tight up gap. When you try to throw the puck by him, he would bat it out of the air. Yans would practice it after practice, and he goes, watch Lindstrom. Dude, I've told you the Bobby Ryan story, right?

No. Oh, I've told it on this podcast. I'm surprised. Let's hear it again. We have a lot of new listeners. So Bobby Ryan, I love Bobby Ryan. So we're in Anaheim and we're in Detroit. I think it was the playoffs.

Might have been that we lost game seven to him that year. It doesn't even matter. Either way, Bobby Ryan goes to put one in and Lindstrom bats it away. Like a couple shifts later, Bobby Ryan goes to put one at the end of the shift. Lindstrom bats it away. this is right in front of our bench Randy Carr's like holy fuck Bobby get the fucking puck in

hey Bobby Ryan he's got a tiny little lisp like he'll tell you great guy he goes to put another puck in and Lindstrom fucking bats it out of the air like Joe DiMaggio.

And Bobby Ryan goes, Jesus fucking Christ, Lindstrom! What the fuck? Guys, I was on the bench. I remember biting my tongue. I was like, my brain was laughing so hard but bobby ryan couldn't get it three times in a game bobby ryan's he did things i couldn't believe the most skilled guys ever played with and even he couldn't get it by him yeah so that's i mean there's a guy there's a prime example of not a guy who needs to do it with bone crunching hits but just just a lot of

weapons in that artillery hey guys, guys, before we go any further, I wanted to talk to you for a second about Raycon. Guys, it's 2019. Everybody needs a great pair of wireless earbuds nowadays, but before you go dropping hundreds of dollars on a pair, you need to check out the wireless earbuds from Raycon. Raycon earbuds start at about half the price of any other premium wireless earbuds on the market, and they sound just as amazing. The company was actually founded by Ray J, and celebrities like Snoop Dogg are already obsessed. Raycon's E50 wireless earbuds have totally changed the game for me.

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to get 20% off your order. That's promo code CHICKLETS20 at buyraycon.com for 20% off Raycon wireless earbuds. If you've been eyeing up here, now's the time to get an amazing deal. One more time, buyraycon.com, promo code CHICKLETS20. Got a little bit of coaching news for a change, Biz. The NHL's longest tenured coach ensured that he will remain just that as Tampa Bay bench boss John Cooper signed a multi-year extension on Tuesday. They didn't say how many years. The 51-year-old Cooper is 301, 157, and 44 in seven seasons with the Lightning. Good for a 643 winning percentage.

And no team has more wins or points in the standings than him since his first full season back in 13-14. He's won at least 50 games in the season three times. He's guided the Lightning to the Eastern Conference Finals three of the last four seasons. He's a guy I know we talked earlier in the year whether he might be on the hot seat. It's safe to say he's not. This team likes him.

The players love him. And he's going to be there for the long haul. There's not a lot of coaches that are in the same city for too long anymore. But John Cooper seems to be an anomaly here. Oh, yeah. I know I've said that, you know, this year I don't think, to me, he wouldn't get coach of the year. I know it's crazy with the records they broke.

I just think the team's so good. And I like, you know, I look at trots and what the Islanders have done, blah, blah, blah. But John Cooper has been a coach that knows what he's doing since he got into the league and the rise he had going from the USHL to the AHL. What's the term? Meteoric?

Did I get that correctly? Yeah, yeah. Meteoric rise. It was a meteoric rise in the coaching ranks for John Cooper. So I think he's got a little bit of a psychologist in him. It kind of comes off as like, is that a little bit? You know, I've never met him, but it seems like not saying he plays mind games with guys.

I'm just saying that I think that he takes everything, you know, and thinks about what he's going to say. I don't think he's a fly off the handle type coach. I mean, maybe I'm completely wrong there. It's just the sense I get from seeing him do interviews. But that team is very good, and you've got to really look to him and say that coaching's part of that. I'm never going to say it's not involved completely,

but he gets those guys ready to play, and so his contract extension's well-deserved. Boys, when I think of his situation, I go back to the Barney B interview, and he talked about it. when he was in New York. They had all the tools. They had all the guys, all those skilled players, but they couldn't put it together. And then when I think of John Cooper and some of you, you know,

calm down, let me finish what I'm going to say. You know, it's almost like you need that Scotty Bowman mentality where he wasn't necessarily the best X's and O's guy. But I tell you what he could he knew how to read guys you know he he had the psychology part of it down where he knew how hard he needed to be on some guys he knew how he needed to treat others and in order uh you know to to have a team that stacked but still then put the results that they have it just goes to show so definitely he's going to be in consideration for Coach of the Year.

I would have no problem with him winning it, just based on all the expectations they had coming into the year. And now putting him in the same breath as Scotty Bowman, this team's got to get over the hump. And that's going to be his last true test. I know the Coach of the Year has nothing to do with playoffs, but if I'm going to be putting him in that same breath as Scotty Bowman, you

got to at least chuck that big nickel thing over your head one time. Give me one time. Scotty Bowman win like 11 Stanley Cups? Right, but in a sense of like when he had the Detroit teams, they were stacked and he was able to fucking, you know, just

you know, I can't use him as like the guy. Well, I mean, when's the last time we've seen a coach? Um, like, I mean, let's go back to Bruce Boudreaux. I mean, he, he probably didn't do a great job of managing all those personalities. There were a lot of bad habits that were creeping into guys' games. He had a stack team for a long time and he could not get over the hump. I don't think he was necessarily great at managing those personalities and putting guys in certain plays.

Now that does go to show about, you know, maybe the culture at the time, at least, in that locker room and what it was. They had Simmons, and they had some other guys that were, you know, like the full-blown Russians. But, no, it's, you know, Koop's done a good job, and that's why I kind of use that comparison. But, yes, I mean, he's might have to win more than one, but let's start with one.

Yeah, I think he's one of these new-age coaches that really works well at Millennials. You know, he's certainly getting results, but like you said, Biz, until you win the big one, man, that's always going to be a knock on you as a coach or a player. Also got a little news from the college ranks as well. Harvard defenseman and prized defensive prospect Adam Fox is going to be returning to Cambridge for his senior year at Harvard,

much to the chagrin of the Carolina Hurricanes. Of course, Carolina obtained the rights to Fox in last summer's blockbuster trade with Calgary, which they also obtained Dougie Hamilton and Michael Furland in exchange for Noah Hannafin and Elias Lindholm. Needless to say, it's a big blow to the Canes. Though they do have his rights for another year, he's going to be UFA after he graduates, basically, and can sign with anyone. Probably unlikely he does sign with Carolina. I would say front offices around the league might want to make a note that Harvard guys like to get their degrees, so you're not going to

see them leaving after two years too often. Harvard guys like to get their degrees, so you're not going to see them leaving after two years too often. H-A-R to the V. V-A-R to the D. Harvard, Harvard, Harvard. We yell pie when there's three minutes and 14 seconds left in every period. No, they don't.

Yeah, there's like six fans. Fuck you. There's like six fans near the band that go pie. I don't know if I've made that up. I think I've made that up at one point in my life, but I like to live with it. Good episode, boys. I'm signing off after hearing that. I'm going to be suspending myself. They don't actually

do that. Give me a break. It wouldn't surprise me. I never heard that. I'm not surprised. Boys, do you think this is a finesse job by brad g living you think he knew he was going to end up staying in that way when he becomes a free agent he's going to get him and then all of a sudden that lynn home and uh that lynn home trade

hamilton got it dougie only got his 15th tuck the other night boys tree tree living that trade was a work job i feel like because what's his name's gone um ferland ferland's gone right and and i mean dougie i mean how long is dougie hamilton gonna stay around that guy can't stay on a team longer than two years i'm right there's already rumors he was gonna get traded this year right yeah so i i mean that was a finesse job i love tree living i think he's one of the best gms in the national hockey league and uh yeah and i had him here in arizona he was the assistant gm here and we had a great That was a finesse job. I love Tree Living. I think he's one of the best GMs in the National Hockey League. And, yeah, and I had him here in Arizona.

He was the assistant GM here, and we had a great relationship. His old man is the one who started Shark Tank. What? Yeah, well, Dragon's Den. His old man's Damon? No, Dragon's Den. It started in Canada. That was, like, the original concept of that television show. And then it became a Shark Tank in the United States.

I don't know if he's got a piece in the American one, but that's where the idea came from, was Dragon's Den. Calgary, by the way, we're recording Wednesday night. They're playing Dallas at home tonight. They switched up the lines. They got Goudreau, Monahan, Lindholm all on different lines. So, it should just see kind of what goes on there. It's been a sick little three-man unit all season. They're trying to get some little depth going, I'm interested to see kind of what goes on there. It's been a sick little three-man unit all season.

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Keep Roman swipes in your back pocket for longer, better sex, and get yours fast with free two-day shipping by visiting GetRoman.com slash chicklets. Once more, that's GetRoman.com slash chicklets. I've got one injury note, too, before we wrap up here, gentlemen. It's been a tough season for New York Islander Andrew Ladd, and what got even worse, after missing much of the season due to knee and back injuries, he was starting to find his groove

before he tore his ACL in Sunday's win over Arizona after he collided with Christian Fisher. He's going to be out for five months. He's 33 years old. He had 11 points in 26 games. Like I said, he was kind of starting to find his groove a little bit, but unfortunately, they're not going to have him for the playoffs, but that's a significant injury.

We like to make note of those. But I think we're about to wrap it up here, boys. We've got a nice long, fat, juicy one for you this week. Thank you, everyone, as always, for listening. I know I keep saying this, but I get people all the time, hey, big Chicklets fan, big Chicklets fan. It's so fucking weird, but it's really cool. So thanks for listening, and we will see you guys all on Monday.

Have a great weekend, everybody. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. I'm a man who can't say no You don't have to twist my arm Just point me where you want to go