Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 178: Featuring Ken Daniels

Episode Date: May 23, 2019

On Thursday's episode of Spittin' Chiclets the guys are joined by the voice of the Detroit Red Wings, Ken Daniels. Ken joins to talk about his long broadcasting career and all the crazy stories along the way. The guys also wrap up the Western Conference Finals and talk some Sharks as they are saving their Bruins-Blues preview for the next podcast. The boys discuss Cindy, Zdeno Chara, and Whit wraps up with a great Memorial Day tribute.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. That's where I'm living on the bread. Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 178 of Spittin' Chicklets, presented by New Amsterdam Vodka. Got a little lull before the Stanley Cup starts up, but we're going to round the table and say hi to the boys first before we get cracking. Mikey Grinelli, what is going on, our producer? What's up, boys? It's Fagali this weekend.

I wish I had Uncle Whit there to hand me 300 bucks before I walked in the chicken box like he used to do with his buddies, but I'm going to try and manage my best. I'll try to come back with some good stories for you guys. All right. Good luck down there, Whit Dog. What's going on? What are you doing this Memorial Day weekend? Anything, brother? No, I'm doing some work.

We got some work coming up here, guys. Are we going to tell everyone that we'll be represented in Boston or no, Grinnelly? Oh, yeah. Let's hear it. We're going to be, because coming up here, guys. Are we going to tell everyone that we'll be represented in Boston or no, Grinnelli? Oh, yeah. Let's hear it. So we're going to be, you know, because we live here, and the Bruins are in the cup finals. Barstool Radio is at Hurricanes where we had our watch party for the,

what was that, third round, boys? Was that Columbus series we had the watch party? Second round, Columbus. Second round. There you go, Whit. So we're having live radio, four to six, Barstool Radio. That's Dave Portnoy's show. We're coming on six to seven.

Boys, we got an hour of time that's live at the bar. We'll be able to take some call-ins. That's what we've always wanted, fellas. That's big for us. We could just carve people calling in and saying I've just dreamed of people calling in and saying such dumb things. I can just rip into them. I can't wait.

I'm excited. Should be a fun Memorial Day weekend. Same here. Next up, last but certainly not least, Paul Biznasty Bissonette. What's up, buddy? I'm in Arizona. Very excited. We found out about the Barstool Radio,

and then we're going to be taking over from 6 to 7. I believe, Grinnelli, that's going to happen Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. It will happen Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, boys. So that's nice. I'm going to head back over to Boston. I know I was just there. The good news about that is we're going to get to record two episodes live, which is always fun for me.

It's a better flow, I find. We're going to get some of our buddies on, maybe even the radio. I'm going to be interviewing – or sorry, we're going to be interviewing Joey Vitale. He's now the color guy, color radio guy for the St. Louis Blues. Played in the Pittsburgh organization. Ended up having to retire early because he dealt with some concussion issues.

But we're going to get a lot of content for you guys. It's going to be a great way to kick off the finals in that regard. And it should be an interesting series. But we are not going to break that great way to kick off the finals uh in that regard and it should be an interesting series but we are not going to break that series down today we're just going to recap and uh and save that for save the juice for monday yeah absolutely we'll be dropping an episode then so we'll just save our preview and analysis and all that shit for then and you're gonna have a lot better weather certainly biz the weather's starting to get nice here and uh it's a lot of fun going on

in the city when it's uh nice in the weather time here uh that made no sense but next up i mean let me fucking that's all right no this is staying in this is yeah we're keeping that no it's too funny i can't spell i can't name names because because you realized it right as i realized it like i looked at you that was just hilarious yeah yeah i fucked, I fucked that up. It's going to be nice. It's going to be a t-shirt. Yeah, it'll be nice at this time. But, hey, last week we had Bates Battaglia on. He had some choice words for the Bruins coach. You know, we let him say what he wants. That's what we do on this show.

But it really riled up not so much Butch Cassidy, but the Boston media. They went hot at Bates Battaglia. Who's this guy? He doesn't even watch the games. They were shitting all over him. I don't even think Cassidy giving a fuck. It was just weird, dude. It's like they were kind of circling the wagons to defend the coach.

I think they think if they kiss his ass, maybe he'll be nice to them or whatever. Like Beatle Bertrand, he's one of the local radio guys. He's the only one who really saw the humor in it and kind of laughed about it, but it was pretty funny to hear everyone get all pissed off about it. Did you happen to catch any of the radio or TV this week? No, I don't really listen to the local stuff because they're such fools.

But obviously our show gets some traction, and they didn't have much to talk about with the Bruins already closed and everything else. And, you know, they got the cup finals. What do they do? They try to find something. They use a little chicklet action. And you know what?

Like maybe the guy was a shitty coach. He's a great coach now. It made a good chicklet action. And you know what? Like, maybe the guy was a shitty coach. He's a great coach now. It made a good story for them. But the people that, like, you're telling me were actually – people were actually mad? Like, sports radio mad, right? Yeah, sports radio mad. And for the record, I don't listen to it either.

I don't watch any of the stuff. People pointed it out to us because, you know, it was our show. But basically, dude, you can find any hockey player on the planet, and he hates one of his old coaches somewhere. It wasn't like this fucking earth-shattering thing. He just, you know, he called them a POS. I think that's what they really glommed on to because, yeah, that was a little bit of a harsh words, I guess, to call the guy.

But, yeah, they were mad and indignant and all that shit about it. So, whatever. It was good. We got a little fucking bump out of it anyway. So, what's going on with you, Biz? What have you been up to the last couple days uh nothing actually not now is a good time to jump in with the the shitty cindy story so i i kind of sorry before you start a lot of i mean a lot of feedback on twitter about your shitty cindy story yeah sometimes i just kind of go on these little

tangents i feel that i can do the story fuck you i feel like I could do the story justice by starting from the beginning and going all the way to the end. I didn't finish the story off. It gets a little bit more gruesome. So I figured, fuck it. Why not just tell it in its entirety? After we won the Calder Cup, not a big deal in Manchester, I went a little bit of an Antonio Banderas.

I went pretty hard for about a month, capping that little bender season off after the Calder Cup with a trip to the Stampede. Well, I got back from the Stampede. All my buddies were at a local bar in Vancouver where I was going to spend the summer called The Local in Kitsilano. Met him there and was going over the trip, talking to them. And sure enough, there was a woman. And I said that last episode, a woman to me is like a, like an older woman who, you know, she, she dresses nice and she has a presence about her where you're like, damn, like this one like gets me going. Now she was, she was giving me the hungry eyes and that was evident at this bar. So eventually I finally walked over,

introduced myself, exchanged numbers with her. And, uh, her. And that was that at that time. So about two weeks later, I had a hernia, bilateral hernia surgery scheduled. I fly out to St. Louis, get the hernia surgery, end up flying back. And it was convenient that my friend was leaving town and she had a beautiful home in Kitsilano. So she let me house sit for her and stay there while I recovered. Well, as I mentioned, it had been two weeks. I haven't really heard from the woman that I'd met. And it just so happened she had the night to hang out. And I said, oh, can we do it another time? Because I was still kind of hurting. And she's like, well, I'm really busy the next couple weeks. And me being the hornball that i am i'm not i'm not not getting

a kill like at that point in time you know i'm doing it whatever it takes to get the stat and and she was sexy so she ends up coming over and and when she came over she was a little tipsy and in the minute we started kissing i'm like oh my god this chick is starving like like she needed my cock like she needed oxygen to live. So, you know, you know, when you kiss a girl and you're like, okay, this is going to be Cirque de Soleil. Like, like, oh, it's going to be nice. It's going to be nice. So even the fact that I couldn't really move around much and she was well aware of that, I still had bandages on for Christ's sake. I start basically just French dipping her and going missionary style,

very light. But as I mentioned, like she was just so horny for it. Wait, French dipping. What's that? You got to explain that. You know,

you're holding it and like keeping it stiff and you're just kind of dipping it in the old, you know, the kind of like the fun dip when you dip your finger in, you look at real fun dips. I was getting some fun with action missionary style. So, and I,

I kind of bent over, started making out there her while I was screwing her missionary style. And it didn't take long. And you know when a girl fakes an orgasm. Trust me, I've had plenty fake orgasms with me. I knew it wasn't a fake because the amount of the, you know, the pressure. You know what I'm talking about. When you make a girl come to pressure. Unfortunately, I really don't.

Okay, well. Like they're doing kegels on your cock. Well, no, not on it. I was on her right. Missionary. That's all I could really do. So she ends up coming and I, you know, I'm feeling good about myself and I wanted to bend her over to switch positions. And that's when I noticed the shit and I'm like, Jesus Christ. And she's like, Oh my God, like I'm so embarrassed. And I'm like, yo, just like the stinky pussy story. Everybody has a bad day. Shit happens. No pun intended. I said, go clean up. Cause I, I'm, I'm finishing off. I'm a selfish motherfucker. It ain't stopping there. So she ends up going to the bathroom, cleaning up. We ended up going to the bathroom to finish. I said, you know what? Just blow me.

So she kind of gets down in that squat position and and and i'm like and i and i'm like play with yourself while you're doing it and she was all about it so she starts playing with herself and i'm like oh yeah here she comes here she comes and i end up and blowing and as i blow on her she orgasms again but all this fucking blood comes rushing out of her pussy onto the fucking white marble floor i'm off again, everybody has a bad day. The first thing on my head is I cannot wait to call my friend, Jackie, the alien and tell her this fucking story. So I was polite and a gentleman and she's like, Oh my God,

the whole time I'm so embarrassed. I'm sorry. I'm like, listen, whatever. I don't care. I've seen, I've seen a lot of gross shit. Don't worry about it. You're going to be, you're going to be a fucking story though. So I ended up calling my, my friends who I'm not the person obviously, I'm standing at her house, but our friend in common.

I tell her the whole story, tell her about the sheets. And she goes, oh, my God, Paul, she has really expensive sheets. That's when I found out how much those fucking things cost. Well, if you think that's the last time I ever saw shitty Cindy, not a fucking chance. I text her. I said, those sheets that you shit on are very expensive you're paying for them so she ended up meeting me a few days later and her fuck and i made her give me the cash for the sheets that she shit on

did you try to get another session the only way i was doing it inside some fucking bubble wrapped room maybe but it was a tough night for cindy 10 000 thread count oh i'll never forget she fucking she's like are you serious so you want me to pay for them i'm like fuck yeah what do you mean did i shit on the sheets no you're a grown woman you got a job you want to shit on sheets you're gonna pay for it like i make minimum wage. I'm playing in the American League. They're giving me a 7K bonus for a two-month call their cup run. I ain't paying for $700 sheets.

So we ended up getting the dough, and that was the last time I seen Cindy. So shitty Cindy, we love you. And the reason I got a little bit nervous and I was kind of foaming my words last time is I'm like, Jesus Christ, I don't know how I'm going to end this story. I kind of panicked. It didn't tell the ending because I had been getting a lot of texts about, did you finish? Did you finish? Fuck yeah, I finished. That's what I kept seeing.

There was more consequence. Do you think Biz Nasty doesn't? He's like the rock star Biz Nasty. I got tweets coming at me. Did Biz Nasty finish? I don't fucking know. Take a guess, bud. I'm a sick puppy, Kimmerer. I'd never seen anything like it. It was just like this blood rush out of there.

I looked at him. What the fuck is wrong with you? You're shitting. You're fucking perioding all over the place. What's going on here? How about them blues? That wraps the shitty Cindy part up. Sorry to bring it back up for you people who are grossed out by that sort of thing. I just feel for the ones that did enjoy the story.

We can all laugh and have weird shit. Exactly. It's all good for laughs. Hey, boys, for a long time, I've been telling you two, you know, I know I'm not the fucking snazziest dresser at times, but I always say I look good when I have to. So I wanted your opinion. I made my TV appearance Sunday night on Boston's Fox Channel 25.

They asked me to come on and talk Bruins, talk the cup. I told you guys I'd make sure I look good for it. So I wanted you to take wits on a one to ten. I'm going to shoot you straight. I expected a little more. You looked way better than usual, but I don't know. Was that black and just a white shirt? Yeah, I mean, it was nothing like jumped out at you.

You were on TV, not to a funeral. Yeah, okay, all right. But the fitting of the suit, that's where we're talking, R.A. That's where we're talking. You're not swimming in the pants. The jacket fit you well. You were well-spoken. I enjoyed watching it. I stayed up to watch that that night, R.A. It was post-Game of Thrones,

I think, too. Yeah, it was. Thanks, brother. I appreciate that. Just a quick note on the suit. Not an excuse. When I moved last summer, I threw every suit I owned out. They were old. I needed new ones. It's probably a good thing. No, it's definitely a good thing. So that black suit was... Can I get some of those things?

That's actually the only suit I own right now because I literally threw every suit I had out and I bought that one I needed for a funeral. So I do need some new suits. That's why I went with the black. Biz, were you able to check it out? I thought you looked great. I'm a pretty simple guy and I usually do the black suit with the white

shirt and the black tie, and I often get the, hey, would you drive Uber over here? So, I mean, you look like you drove Uber, like I do. I would never say that to you. Uber Black, though. Uber Black. Yeah, the extended one. What do you call that? The XL? Uber XL? All right. Do you know you took an Uber pool one time?

Do you do that or you used to do that? Oh, he does it all the time. He did it with me in Boston. He did it in Boston and one of my buddies got in the car with you. This was years ago, though. Yeah, it was Reggie, right? Yeah, I was going to Charleston from Celti. Not too many people are going to be doing that.

If they are, then whatever. You might have to pick them up before i'm not too good for uber pool although i did do it one time in la because i was just like oh like let's try it out hopefully it'll be a rocket but i got in and i ended up driving around for 45 minutes i'm like when the fuck do i get to go home you've picked up two more people in the meantime here and it's like oh it's just the way the the route goes so if you somehow get farther and farther away from your destination and there's other people to pick up and closer places for them to drop them off you just get the short end of the stick so i was like fuck this and i ended up jumping out of 7-eleven and get an uber but back to you ra um you look great you did well man one guy was uh chirping you on twitter about too much head bobbing i like to get my head into

it my shoulders and all that and my hands and you know it's bobbing. I like to get my head into it, my shoulders and all that, and my hands. It's weird though, R.A., though. I remember you kind of don't know what to do with your hands. That's why I hold a pen. And you're also like, I remember the first time the guy was in my ear. He's like, stop moving your chair. I was swiveling my chair like this, Mikey. I was just sitting on TV like this.

And I was like, dude, stop swiveling your chair. You can't just act like a six-year-old on NHL Network first timer. One mistake I made on the panel the first time was I wore my Breitling watch

and I kept like hitting the watch. And same idea. The guy was in my ear. He was like, stop banging your watch because they can pick it up at home. But I thought you did good, R.A. What were your own critiques

to yourself? You know, I thought you did good, R.A. What were your own critiques of yourself? You know, I thought if I had to give myself a grade, I would say a B+. You know, I do have a tendency to get tongue-tied, as we just saw a couple minutes ago, trying to talk about the weather. But I thought I had that pretty much under wraps. My parents, of course, my parents are always going to love it. But my friends who criticize me the most, they both said I did a good job. So that's how I know I did a good job. We all need friends like that who are going to love it. But my friends who criticize me the most, they both said I did a good job. So that's how I know I did a good job. We all need friends like that who are going to cut it straight to the chase. No bullshit. And if they

said I did good, then I took it. I don't. Just suck my dick and tell me you love me. I'm like you already. No, I'm just kidding. Hey, by the way, Biz, you asked already to critique him. What do you think? He's like, well, after watching it the 743rd time, I've finally figured out. B plus. He's like, I beat off to it43rd time, I finally figured out.

B plus. He's like, I beat off to it like 18 times. I have no bodily fluids. That's why I've been sounding a little under the weather today. What else are we going to talk about, boys? Can we talk about the Blues going on to the Stanley Cup? Well, I don't know. R.A. wants to talk about his TV debut,

and I want to talk about shitty Cindy some more. Hey, boys, before we go any further, I want to talk to you for a second about DoorDash. You guys have a long day at work, maybe a tough day at school, still stuck at the office. Well, treat yourself to a meal that you deserve on demand from your favorite restaurant. And restaurants, they come to you with DoorDash, all right? DoorDash connects you to all your favorite restaurants in the city. Ordering is easy. You just use the DoorDash app, choose choose what you want to eat and your dasher will bring it right to you wherever you are unreal not only is that burger place you'll love on door dash already but over 310 000 other amazing restaurants are too and door dash connects you with door-to-door delivery in over 3 300 cities in all 50 states

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Again, that's promo code CHICKLETS for $5 off your first order from DoorDash. No, I was just going to say, the over-under on people calling me Bill Daly for the rest of the playoffs is 500,042, because everyone who makes that joke and hits send, they think they nailed it. I've heard that joke probably literally a thousand times already. So you'll probably never hear it again now that you say that, and Scott Van Pelt. Yeah, I'm going to mute it on fucking Twitter.

But yeah, biz and wits. Tuesday in St. Louis, after 49 long years and a few heartbreaks along the way, the Blues finally found the gateway to the Stanley Cup final when they beat the Sharks 5-1 to win the West, and they finally get that rematch with the Boston Bruins. They've been clamoring for it since Bobby O's OT series clincher back in 1970.

Blues got a couple of first-period goals from Perron and Tarasenko, staked them to an early lead they'd never relinquish. Teams traded goals in the second. And after what's in, the Sharks' final push early in the third, Tyler Bozak made it 4-1 with just under seven minutes left to remove any suspense. It kind of let the crowd celebrate the last few minutes of the game. Jordan Bennington, what can you say about him? Stopped 25 or 26 shots.

The Blues were just better, man. You know, they were just better for the whole series, but we do got to give kudos to the Sharks. They were vastly outmanned. They didn't have fucking Carlson, no hurdle, no paths, and they were still in that game early in the third period. They could never get within a goal, so fucking St. Louis finally got it done.

What do you got to say about it, Biz? Well, Jordan Binnington, in potential series clinching games so far, 3-0-0, 945 save percentage with a 1.33 goals against average. As I mentioned, after game three of the series, when they ended up losing with that hand pass goal in overtime, I was a little concerned. I thought maybe San Jose was the team who'd figured him out or maybe the Cinderella story was over.

Nope, dialed it right back in. He's been an unbelievable backbone. Of course, when they celebrated as soon as the horn went, he just touched his post and acted like nothing happened and just cool as a cucumber. Very happy for that organization um i i forget her name again is it lilia layla anderson layla anderson the girl that came to the game she was there again um uh who was stuck in a hospital for i believe multiple multiple months finally was able to to leave the hospital or her home.

And she was there for the clincher, very emotional after the game. As guys were passing through the hallway, young Paige Views, YP, who works for Barstool, was in attendance. He's been the one with the chinchilla who's just been going viral on their run as well. He captured a moment between Patrick Maroon and her. It was very special. I'm just very happy for everyone involved. Doug Armstrong, who is very kind to me, even in the short time I was there on the PTO.

Just everything you hear about him, an awesome guy. You know, he was on the hot seat. You know, there was talks of him getting fired if he couldn't turn this back around because he built an unbelievable organization. And then they just couldn't get over the hump and then all of a sudden the shitty start that they have after revamping the team at the beginning in the offseason at the beginning of the year it looked like it was it was colossal and he was going to be shipped out and then of course Berube you could just tell the guys love playing for him happy for Steve Ott as well what a great transition from

playing into coaching for him. And just so many great storylines, Witt. Like, I mean, we haven't even gotten the majority of the players. It was perfectly described today by an NHL guy. He's been on this show. I ran into him, and we were just kind of shooting the shit. He's like, this team has – I've never seen a team with this much mojo. And it's like this team really has something special brewing.

And it's like it makes total sense that they ended up after the horrible start, that they ended up actually getting here. Because when they started playing well and they started dominating teams January into February, you were like, wow, this is what everyone saw preseason when they were saying this team could really do some damage. So it's a great story. I mean, there's so many different storylines.

Doug Armstrong, he was a classy guy, Biz, too. I dealt with him the two years. You were just one. Shot me straight, good guy. Like, I don't know, I just really respect him. And you could tell everyone around there respected him and appreciated him. Like, the players really enjoy him because he's honest, and I think he tells you where you stand,

and he doesn't really bullshit guys. So we've heard all the things he did this year in terms of coming in and saying that, guys, like, this is it. I have to start trading people if it doesn't change. But, I mean, I also wanted to say that Ryan O'Reilly, I mean, three assists in the clinching game, what a perfect way for them to win the Western Conference. That guy has been

their rock all year. Even the season Bennington's had, it wasn't for 82 games. So Ryan O'Reilly's their true MVP. And one more thing about O'Reilly, about the three assists. This stat was unreal. Once you hear the names on it, you'll be as blown away as I was and Biz was by Cindy. Here are the most recent players to record three or more assists in a series clincher that sent his team to the Stanley cup final. So you're talking about a game to win your conference that these guys get three assists. Ryan O'Reilly last night.

I'm sorry. This is a, it was Sunday night, Monday night, whatever Patrick Kane, Marion Hosa, Larry Murphy, and Mark Messier.

So those four guys are going to be in the Hall of Fame. I'm not going to say Ryan O'Reilly will right now, but what a list he joined. So it was a special night, and you could tell the city's in love with the Blues. I don't blame them. And the Blues will be looking, boys. We're not going to give away any preview action.

That's for next episode. But the Blues will be looking for their first win, their first Stanley Cup final win, because they've been three times before in 68, 69, and 70, and they got swept all three years. So this is their fourth trip as a team, as an organization, and they're looking for their first Cup final win. So it'll be a good series, but it was an exciting night

and happy for the Blues and the city of St. Louis. Yeah, man, I was shocked because how I felt when they won because it's something I literally never saw before. The Blues have never been to a Stanley Cup final in my lifetime, and obviously I'm not a Blues fan, but I was like, wow, this is cool, man. They've been struggling. It's been one of those stories which we've been talking about since we started the podcast.

They could never get over the hump. They always kind of been a no man's land. So I was like, man, if I'm happy for them, I can't imagine how fucking ecstatic their fans are to finally get there. So, you know, congratulations to the Blues, to all their fans. Like I said, they've been waiting a long time for them. I can't imagine how fucking ecstatic their fans are to finally get there. So, you know, congratulations to the Blues, to all their fans. Like I said, they've been waiting a long time for this. And also, we here at Spittin' Chickards, we want to send our well wishes to referee Wes McCauley. He had to leave the game in the first due to a hamstring issue. He collided with one of the linesmen, and as you can see, his left leg didn't stick to Landon.

He was in some pain. Gord Dwyer had to come in and replace him. But McCauley's worked the last six Stanley Cup finals. He's widely considered to be the best ref in the league. He's surely the most entertaining. So we here hope he's fine in time and that he can work the Stanley Cup final because not only did he earn it, the league needs him there. They need their best ref at the marquee event. And today, I'm sorry,

Wednesday, the AP Steven Wino tweeted out, real shame last night with Wes McCauley likely being out after popping a hamstring. I don't know what popping means, if he tore it or whatever. That's not obviously a medical term. But regardless, we didn't like to see that happen. Wes, feel better. We'd love to see you Monday.

One thing I think we have to talk about, boys, is San Jose. Obviously, they took a big stab at it this year by getting Carlson. Fuck you, Whit. In the offseason, we're laughing about something behind the scenes here, so don't get there with us. But they got Carlson. They have a couple guys up in free agency. Pavelski, he's a big question mark.

Of course, is Jumbo Joe going to come back? But it was nice to see with Jumbo Joe at the end of his career get a nice run. There was hope for a lot of people and the fact that he might get his Stanley Cup. I just think that, you know, part of going the distance in Stanley Cup playoffs is getting a little bit lucky with health. And they started deteriorating a bit towards the end there. Of course, they missed Carlson for the last game. No Pavelski.

I believe Hurdle was out as well, correct? Yes. Yep. Yeah, so that's, I mean, those are some big holes in the lineup, and usually you need everybody going. You talked about that mojo that St. Louis had. It just seems like it faded for San Jose after the game where they were lucky enough to get the win in overtime with a hand pass.

Yeah. Dude, injuries, it's just like all about luck sometimes. Man, you get your big dogs go down in the playoffs. That's straight up bad luck. So great season to San Jose, but I'm fired up for the cup final, boys. We'll be giving our predictions, and I wonder where RRA is going with that one, but that'll be next episode. Oh, yeah.

I meant to talk about the gambling corner. I had that bet last night. Did you see how it played out, Wits? Yeah, that was a great call, the Couture shots. The over-fucked you that went all over at the end. Dude, just in case no one saw my blog, I tweeted out, pick of the night, Logan Couture, his overrun, there was only two and a half shots on goal. I'm like, Burles is all over that, too.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, dude, he's's not gonna get held to two shots but the funniest part the third shot was a fucking neutral zone dumping that bump bump bump and the goalie saved it if he wasn't there it would have went in so they had to score the shot on goal so i made fucking two grand on a neutral zone dumping first time that's ever happened and what did you think of the ball pulling the goalie down three goals and i mean the shocks would toast that's just last ditch. I mean, you're going to do that every time. You know, you never know.

But yeah, and there's a lot of time on the clock, but you need three. It's your only chance, and it's do or die. Well, they got four with an extra attacker in round one. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know it was a power play, but nonetheless, just a great year by San Jose. Congratulations to them and their fans.

Talk about a team that's been able to sustain the test of time, even in the cap era. They just have been able to reload and reload. So Doug Wilson's going to have his work cut out for him under the circumstances now. Should be interesting to see if Carlson re-signs there. My guess would just be no. I can't see them signing a guy.

I mean, you're going to have to pay him, what, nine and a half, ten? I mean, maybe he'd be willing to take a discount because he likes it there, but I just don't see him ending up back there, guys. Yeah, I mean, they already have $15 million committed to Burnsy and Vlasic through 2025. So, I mean, are you going to pay three defensemen fucking $24 million, it's a lot of cake. You wonder what's around the corner for them.

You know, Joe's unrestricted. Carlson unrestricted. They already got $15 million committed to Berns and Vlasic through 2025. You know, Pavelski, he's only 37 games short of 1,000, but he had 38 goals last year. He's going to be 35, but the guy still produces. You're going to think he's probably going to come back. But, you know, Carlson, another one, man.

You're going to spend that kind of dough. I don't know. There's some question marks with the Sharks. The window's going to close. It's going to close soon. Also, Timo Meyers, an RFA, coming off a 30-goal season. He's going to get a sizable raise off the 800K he made this year. So a lot of questions in San Jose.

You know, that window's going to close quick. The biggest question mark that I have, and you can back this up, is are all these guys that have been able to elevate their game, like the LeBanc, the Timo Meier, are those guys going to be able to get the job done when they become the main focus? Because I'm not saying Jumbo Joe is doing it like he used to, but when you have other guys around that are taking the focus off of you,

like the Pavelskys, like the Vander Kanes, because he's got the big deal, and he's another 30-goal guy when he's playing up to his capabilities. Now all of a sudden, if those guys are gone, can the Timo Meyers, can those other guys get it done like they were now, and can they become the wave of the future? That's going to remain to be seen. I think Timo Meier and Thomas Hurdle are full-blown studs, though. Hurdle was another guy.

I don't see Carlson back there either. I'm interested to see what he ends up signing for, too. He's been battling injuries, still so valuable when healthy and playing at his highest level. It's just a joke. I'm curious to know if Vlasic's going to dwindle off. He's still pretty solid, man, on top of the game. I agree, and I agree, and that's not a knock.

Is eventually at some point in time, is he going to be a J.Bone-meester where he just kind of sustains the test of time where he plays 20 years and he's still as solid in year 20 as he was in year 13. I mean, would you guys assume that Vlasic, how hard he plays? I mean, he blocks shots. He does so many things and eats a lot of minutes. If he can stay the same as he is now, then that's all right. But if not, we got another Seabrook on our hands.

Yeah, I don't know. I think he's still getting it done pretty well out there he is on the hook there's like you said seven million a year through 25 uh 25 26 uh but he's only you know he's 32 he's not that old he's uh you know i'm just raising the question as as this could become a potential problem whereas where maybe that that is the reason they get Carlson. But then again, it's a lot of money to promise your blue line. Yeah, yeah. It's tough to imagine that they'll have all three of those guys on that team next year, given what they're making.

So yeah, boys, like I said, we're not going to touch the cup yet at all. St. Louis, Boston, we're going to do all that Sunday. So I know people want to hear about it now, but it's just not time yet. What do you got, Whit? Well, R.A., I think it's time to throw it now, but it's just, it's not time yet. What do you got with? Well, all right. I think it's time to throw it to Ken Daniels. Who's the longtime Detroit Red Wings play-by-play guy. We had an awesome chat and I think at the end, you'll realize that, you know,

he's been through a lot and he was just a great guy to join us. A lot of funny stories and we want to thank that. So right now we're going to go to him. Pleasure to introduce our next guest. Actually, met him up in the press box at the Arizona Coyotes arena where he begged me to come on the Spitting Chicklets podcast. And I said, you know what? I said, if you guys let the Coyotes get two points tonight,

I could just maybe make that happen. And currently part of the longest running duo in the nhl as far as a television broadcast uh we got ken daniels on board what's up fella i i did beg you and uh thanks thanks for listening to me i wasn't down on my knees though biz it wasn't down on my knees but uh yeah mickey and i 23 years we're going on our 23. Well, we'll include the one that we didn't play because of a lockout, but, you know, 23 years in the booth. Pretty good. Well, it's a pleasure for us to have you on,

and it's really cool to see two guys be together for that long and not only be together but watch some incredible hockey teams play and get to announce some exciting games. So I'm wondering, originally, like, what was your beginning into Detroit? And I know that you started there the year after they won the cup in 97 so you must have been a little nervous you don't want to break up the juju but they went on to win the cup again that year in your first year right right and Sergei Fedorov wasn't there at the time and Redmond kept saying to me wait do you see

this guy because that was when Carolina was going after Sergei Fedorov so I didn't see him for the beginning of that season. But that year, just prior to that, I was working Hockey Night in Canada and the first round series, which went seven games between Buffalo and the Ottawa Senators. And then round two for Hockey Night, I'm doing Buffalo and the Philadelphia Flyers. So this would have been May of 97. And you guys know, Ray, while you wouldn't have been in the press box much, Biz, maybe you were

but remember the odd in in or the the current building in buffalo where there's the telephone booth up there there's a pay phone do you remember it it's still there i went and used that phone i remember that night because i was filming a movie the next day with Tony Danza about a garbage kicking garbage man who kicked field goals for the Philadelphia Eagles and they won the Super Bowl. Funnily enough, it happened years later. But anyway, Tony Danza was in that movie. So I was on the pay phone to my agent that night because in the booth, Dave Strader, the late great Dave Strader came to me and he said that he was doing ESPN International with Mickey for that round in round two of the playoffs

and he said Mick wants me to let you know that they're going to make a change in the booth in Detroit Mike Goldberg had been doing it who's now gone on, is it the MMA he's with now? Goldberg doing the he actually was doing a few Coyotes games this year when Matt McConnell was gone

he did do UFC for a while. Right, UFC. Okay, and I ran into him this year. Yeah, good guy in Arizona. Right. So they said they were going to let Mike Goldberg go, and Dave said Mickey wanted me to let you know I knew Mickey a little bit. And I called my agent that night, and I was driving back from Buffalo to Toronto

where I live to film the movie at 7 30 in the morning with Tony Danza I was doing that playoff game with Greg Millen for CBC went back did that and in the midst of that getting a tape from CBC sending it to Detroit so that's how it all happened started in May and I really didn't get hired by the Red Wings until September right before training camp so it was a whirlwind of the summer but yes i came for the second cup in 97 98 and i got spoiled right off the bat ken was there was there a particular person or event that made you want to become a play-by-play guy i grew up from the age of eight uh just listening to foster hewitt and dan kelly uh back so it would have been 67 68 dan ke Dan Kelly of the St. Louis Blues on KMOX out of St. Louis.

I think I was doing play-by-play in my family living room watching hockey, and my older brothers, older sister, or my parents would send me to bed after the second period. I was probably mixing up Red Kelly for Dave Keon. Maybe I was getting the numbers wrong, and they got tired of my play-by-play, so they'd send me to bed, and I had a little yellow transistor radio, and I'd listen to the end of the game underneath my pillow. And I'd scan the dial with the Leaf game was over, and I'd find the St. Louis Blues if they're on the West Coast at a KMOX, because it came in great, 11.20 into Toronto.

So I literally dreamed my job. I literally dreamed what I wanted to do. And I think it was just the vision of being in that building and seeing in the descriptive nature of the game, the way Foster Hewitt called the game or Dan Kelly. I just loved it. I don't know why it was in my blood. My mom used to say to me, I'm born March 18th. And the Stanley Cup from Lord Stanley of Preston was first awarded on March 18th of 1892 is when he presented the Stanley Cup named after Lord Stanley of Preston was first awarded on March 18th of 1892 is when he presented the Stanley Cup named after Lord Stanley of Preston in Ottawa to say we need for the Dominion of Canada a trophy to play for and I was born on March the 18th so my mom says you were destined to do that so there you go that's where it started when I was eight years old that that's actually

incredible to hear it was um it was right around St's Day, too, so it could have been one or the other. You know, you could have been drinking or being a broadcaster in the NHL. Right. So did you start it in college, the actual broadcasting, before college? How old were you when you actually started it? I never did play-by-play of hockey until it was the Toronto Maple Leafs around 1990. I was where, yeah, I was where I never did junior hockey. I never did the American Hockey League. I had done the Olympics in 1988 in Seoul and had never had been more nervous in my life of doing anything.

I was working for CDC television. I'd done radio for years. I broke into radio. The guy in Oshawa, outside of Toronto, a small market station, and I went to go work there. And the guy interviewed me and later told me I only got the job because I sold myself. My brother said to me before I went for that interview, he said, just tell him you work for free. And I did not do that. But I said, I want this job more than anything in the world. I just graduated from college with a BA in English and whatever and psychology and that. I just wanted to show people I could get through college, did the work I needed to do.

And then I applied to radio stations, got the job in Oshawa, then got the job in Toronto doing overnight news. I was on the political beat, City Hall, Queen's Park, the provincial legislature. I was doing news. I was the fill-in guy for sports. And sure enough, the guy who was filling in for the great Joe Bowen, who's still there doing Toronto Maple Leafs hockey, couldn't do a game. And I think it was 1990. So I'd been at the station for years and was also on CBC television. So I was doing radio and TV at the same time. And Alan Davis, the program director and still a very good friend of mine, now working out of Buffalo. Alan called me and said, can you fill in and do Toronto Maple Leafs hockey tomorrow night?

It was the night before, and I was at the radio station. Yeah, well, here's the story, though. And I said, well, I bought my first house, Alan, and I'm moving tomorrow, and I have to get all my furniture out. And he said said are you fucking kidding me get someone else to move the damn ottoman I'm offering you Toronto Maple Leafs hockey so I said okay and I did the game and it was Toronto Boston and Boston won in overtime Andy Brickley I believe got the assist on the goal and I can't remember who scored it

but the game went to overtime. And all I'm thinking at the time is this is my first National Hockey League game. I don't need to call more of it. I was nervous enough. But I got through that. And the next year, they offered me 15 as a fill-in, and the next year, 15 more. And then John Shannon, whom I met only once, because he was working for the Minnesota North Stars at the time, producing their games with Dave Hodge, was doing play-by-play. I went for drinks with John Shannon after a game when Toronto was on the road in Minnesota one night. And I guess John took a liking to me.

And then a few years later, he called me and said, I'm coming back to Hockey Night in Canada. And I was hosting Hockey Night in Canada at that time, but I'd never done play-by-play. I'd only done Toronto Maple Leafs radio and John said I'd like to put you on play-by-play of television but you have to quit radio I don't want any bad habits meaning too much descriptive nature on TV as opposed to radio wasn't a problem for me because the radio station I was at had lost the rights that year so I was going to be out of work for Maple East play-by-play anyway. And John brought me over to TV and that's how it happened. It was just right place, right time. But as I always say, guys, I don't believe in luck. I believe luck

is when preparation meets opportunity. So everything I'd done along that time, even when Alan said, can you do play-by-play? And I was giving an excuse because I had to move, although it was true. I had done the Olympics. I'd got through that. I'd got through cycling and road racing and done some baseball and canoeing and kayaking. So I wasn't very good at it. I was awful. I started at such a level so high and I didn't give myself any room to breathe. So 88 Olympics are not my high point in my broadcasting career, but I thought if I can get through that, it prepared me to get through this. So that's where I believe in life. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And I got the opportunity and everything I had done led me to be where I am. Well, that is, that is a great quote. And it's

funny you bring up, um, John Shannon mentioning that the bad habits coming from the radio to TV, cause I've always been interested in that when you're listening on the radio, they really do have to be descriptive and it's hard. But when you get to TV, how is it that you decide when to describe what's happening and when to let the play breathe and knowing, all right, I don't need to describe that breakout pass. I can just let people watch and realize what's going on and i'll decide when i'm going to give in uh what i want to say when i get tired of hearing myself honest to god it's true when i'll hear myself and i'll just go in my head shut up now some people listening may say shut up more that may be you can't please everybody but i think i have more yeah exactly and that's why i stay off it i troll i don't have a Twitter account. I do

follow it. I think it's great for information, but I've never tweeted in my life. I can't be like you, Biz. I can't do that. But I do know in my head as I'm calling a game more often than not, let it breathe. You get into those final moments. If it's an exciting game, you're going for it. But there are times, yeah, where I think people have a tell, they've got a, there's moving pictures on there. They can see where the puck is for the most part, but there are times when the action is crazy and you've got to go right along with it

and meet the level of the game. I don't believe you can make a really dull game more exciting. You could probably kill the game, but I think you've got to rise just a touch above it. You're not going to lie to the viewer. The viewer can see what is happening and what is. So you're going along with the game. But I just think it's intuition on my part,

and I think most broadcasters will likely feel that when the layout. Well, one thing we passed over was the fact that you were a referee growing up, and you did it all the way to pretty much college, and you ended up using the money to buy your first car and put yourself through college i did actually it was a glc sport is what i bought and i did put myself through college my dad helped me a little bit but back in those days i started when i was 12 years old refereeing at forest hill collegiate in toronto and i do the, you know, the Adams or the Peewees. So that a little bit below me. And then I went to the Metro Toronto Hockey League,

the MTHL, and I'm not sure if it's still the MTHL, but you know, a huge, a huge minor league in the Toronto system, one of the largest in Canada, where a lot of great National Hockey League players came from playing in that league. And I worked my way up to refereeing some midget games and some junior B games. And so for me, you could go in there on a good night or a weekend and do tournaments. And you're talking the mid-70s here. So one year I'd make $4,000 to $5,000 just refereeing cash. Cash, you know, 1974, 75, 76. And you just put the money in your pocket so you know i saved the

money and helped my dad with some college funds and bought a car and and back then cars were maybe eight thousand dollars so you saved up for for three or four years boy am i dating myself eight thousand dollars for a car yeah that's crap those those were the good old days huh uh considering you a referee does that make you a little bit more lenient in your play-by-play assessment of of how they are and and and also what is your assessment of uh all the shit that's been going on in this playoffs with the crazy claws uh more specifically the one against vegas and san jose yeah well i'm a little bit more lenient because i work with mickey redmond who isn't so i have to try to offset. And I know when the referees come to town,

and I am close with a lot of them, so they're good guys. And it's the hardest job in any sport to officiate hockey, considering what they have to do. And they'll always say, have Mickey go easy on us tonight. And I think when Mickey's on the referees, he's not so much on the refs, but in Mickey's mind, he's on what he calls New York, or the way that the game is called, the standard the league wants the referees to call rather than having that judgment.

And I liked it when there was just one referee in the game and you knew what you were going to get from the start of the game. And you guys know as players, you knew from the start of the game if they're going to call this or they're going to let that go or they're ticky tack here, it's probably going to continue for the night or we get this ref, his judgment, we know what we're getting. With two guys, it's a little bit different, but also I don't think it could go today without two guys, just the way the game is played and the speed of it. And as for that game in Vegas, boy, I had Vegas in a bet in Vegas to win the West.

Oh, me too. Yeah, well, that one really ticked me off the way that one went, but they were in a tough spot. I just wish they would have delayed a little longer and taken a look up at the video screen above center ice and seen it. It was a hard call, and you can't make it up, and I don't know whether Murphy the linesman was the only one who saw it,

and I haven't spoken to Dan O'Halloran to ask him about it yet, so I haven't spoken to any of the guys. They're in hiding right now. They're in witness protection. I get it. And, you know, it cost them series, and I understand it cost them the rest of the playoffs. And the sad thing is, and Dan O'Halloran lives in Michigan,

so I've known Dan for a long time and have been to some of his charity golf events, and I really like Dan a lot. And it's unfortunate because it cost him the rest of the playoffs, and he's never going to do another playoff game now because he's retiring next season. you know when the referees retire they're done in the regular season and i'm hoping maybe his last game will be a little little caesars arena and you get to pick the crew you work with but he's never going to do another playoff game and i know that's going to weigh on him and shouldn't because he's been a terrific

referee and he's had a wonderful career and i hope they get over this. I mean, we got to move past it, but it was, it was unfortunate. It was really unfortunate for Vegas, unfortunate for them, unfortunate for San Jose, but let's face it. It was a bad call and they went on the result, not what they saw. And you can't guess you just can't. And I think going forward and the league, you know, at the GM meetings, they were asked about it on review and they don't want to go more. They're going to have to now they're going to have, they're going to have to go to the five minute to see. And that's

okay. What were there? 35 of them or something this year? Not a big deal. Yeah. It's not like the offsides review, which people really, I think people hear review and they're just like, no more. But that's the type of thing where it happens so randomly and not that common that it's like, all right, let's just take a look. Yeah, for sure. And you know what? And you that common that it's like, all right, let's just take a look. Yeah, for sure. And you know what? And you mentioned the offside review and here's one that I don't get. And I mentioned it to Ken Holland and I think he was going to bring it up at the GM's meetings and then he wasn't in that breakout session. So he never got to, but, and I, and I argue, I've argued with Jeff Blaschel about this one too, and how it's called,

but why if the puck has to be all the way outside the zone to be offside right so you're talking about the offensive end the puck has to be clearly come outside the zone all the way correct to be offside not a little bit of it the whole puck why does the whole puck then have to be over the line to be onside haven't you just made the zone shorter it's not 64 feet it's not 75 feet to the end boards anymore you just made it a foot shorter so to me although i understand and i and i've spoken to steven walkham about this and terry gregson in the past and why they don't want the skate in the air of breaking the plane because if you think the players are stretching now and then you can break the plane, it's going to become even more.

The skates are going to come higher, and somebody's going to get that leg cut with how sharp the skates are now in those socks, which really don't protect you. So they don't want the skate off the ice, and that's why. Because the players are going to try to stay onside, stretch farther, and the skates are going to come up higher. You even spun that to player safety. Yes, right? Yeah, I mean, and the skates are going to come up higher. You even spun that to player safety. Yes, right?

Yeah, I mean, that's a win-win right there. So, to me, why, if the puck just touches the outside of the blue line coming into the offensive zone, it's onside. Don't wait for the puck to come all the way over because now you've saved yourself maybe two minutes of toggling that tape. So, now you see where the skate leaves the blue line and comes inside the zone now you're going okay now let's see where the puck is how much more does the puck have to go to be all the way over the blue line you can see the puck on the front edge a minuscule a quarter inch of that puck touches the outside of the blue line coming into the zone and the skate still on the line on side

you're picking up a couple of minutes right there of toggling a tape it took me a while to convince Jeff Blaschel that and Adam Nightingale our video coach said I think he got a point so I'm not the only one who said this but I've been on this even on our broadcast now for a couple of years and for some reason the league just won't go for it I say just have the puck touch the outside of the line and we're good to go it'll speed up the game It'll speed up the game. It'll speed up the review. Ken, going back to high school for a second, you played high school hockey for Ian Mike Keenan.

What was he like as a high school coach with kids? I mean, was he a maniac even back then playing mind games with young guys or what? You know, there were probably some mind games. He was also coaching the Whitby Senior A team with shotgun Tom Simpson from the WHA, who was one of my idols growing up. And Eddie Shaq was on that team in Whitby, which is near Oshawa and outside Toronto, to the east of Toronto. So we used to go watch Mike. He was player, coach, or Whitby. And then he was also with the Oshawa Junior B Legionnaires while he was coaching us, while he was our phys ed teacher and history teacher. I don't know how much Mike knew about history, to tell you the honest truth, but everybody loved him. I'm not talking about when he got to the NHL and played the mind games and a lot of players hated to play for him.

But I'll never forget, and our team, Forest Hill Collegiate, we'd never really done anything to speak of in all those years. And I was a third or fourth line winger and kill penalties, whatever. And my size, I wasn't going to be the star of that team. We had a lot of good players and some good goaltending. The year that Mike coached us, that first year, we made it to the city semifinals and lost 1-0. I think it was Humberside Collegiate who blew out the eventual champion 7-1. So we did pretty well to go that year. And I'll never forget the start of that season. Now, Forest Hill Collegiate in Toronto was a predominantly Jewish high school.

Now, Drake somehow was at Forest Hill Collegiate. Drake was Jewish, you know, bar mitzvah, I believe. Lorne Michaels, the creator of Saturday Night Live, went to Forest Hill Collegiate. This was a predominantly Jewish high school, and Mike Keenan was our head coach. At the start of that season, Mike Keenan walked into that dressing room,

giving us his preseason speech. And he said, you know, as I look around this dressing room, the chances of any of you in this room right now making the national hockey league i'd say is zero but the chances of one of you in here owning an nhl team 80 percent you'd much rather that let's be honest yeah seriously oh yeah so we we enjoy playing for mike you know what he could tell the guys who'd been out we had early morning practices we had our own rink right across the street from our high school so he'd have early morning practices at 7 30 he'd have us on what was called the belt

line we'd have to do a mile run and beat your time and we thought one one of our guys danny gellman had a rough night the night before and he was puking in the room before practice at 7.30 in the morning, and he's hiding in the corner because Mike was sitting up in the seats, and he was watching practice, and we thought, you know, he didn't see Danny lying there in the corner. We were just skating past him the whole practice, and we were laughing our asses off because we thought it was hilarious. We all come on the ice, and Mike's going,

good practice, guys, good practice. He said, Gelman, 100 laps, see you later, and made him go out there and stood at the end boards and just watched him skate up and back, up and back. So that was Mike. You really didn't get a whole lot past him, but he was a great coach and taught us a lot, a lot of great drills.

And I remember at the time, I was close with Mike back then and I used to sit in his phys ed office. I wanted to become a broadcaster. So this is grade 12. And even back then in Toronto in high school, you had grade 13, which was sort of ridiculous. But we had grade 13 and up until a short time ago, actually. So I used to sit in Mike's phys ed office and he'd say, Daniels, you want to be a broadcaster? What broadcasting jobs are open?

He wanted to be a National Hockey League coach. And then eventually he went to the Rochester Americans under Scotty. Mike Keenan was born in Bowmanville, Ontario, near Oshawa, east of Toronto. He was born in Bowmanville, wound up working for Scotty Bowman, who gave him his first job in Rochester, and then wound up with the Philadelphia Flyers. And I used to go down and spend time with Mike. And when Pelley Lindbergh passed and through all that time and went to some flyer parties with him. And when Dave Poulin was

his captain in Philadelphia, so got to know Mike through the years and all that at a high school. So it was pretty cool that that's where our relationship began playing for him. Ken, I was told to ask you about meeting Harold Ballard, the former Leafs owner like that. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Basically the old old school Eugene Melnick. He would have been. He was the Melnick. You're right, Biz.

He was the Melnick of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Harold Ballard was a beauty. I was breaking into radio in 1981 or so when I came out of Oshawa and into Toronto doing the overnight news. And at that time, you guys probably would have no clue of remembering this, but it was September 1st of 83 and a Soviet fighter jet had shot down Korean Airlines flight 007. And there were 269 passengers and crew aboard and they all perished. And a few weeks later, Harold Ballard, belief's owner, he was 80 years old at the time, I believe,

announced that he was canceling the appearance of the Moscow Circus at Maple Leaf Gardens because of that. So being the news guy at the time back then in 1983, I just called Maple Leaf Gardens. I was on the evening shift. It was maybe 7 o'clock or so. And this voice said, hello? And I said, I'm looking for Harold Ballard. He goes, this is who's this. So I explained who I was. He said, what do you need? He said, come on over. I said, where do I find you? He said, my apartment above the hot stove club,

which was the restaurant at Maple Leaf Gardens. So I walked down the street along past the Westbury Hotel, where Maple Leaf Gardens was on Church Street, because CKFH, which became CJCL, CKFH was CK Foster Hewitt. So station 1430, that was the voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And that's where I started my career in news and sports working there. So I walked down the street, found Harold Ballard up as an apartment. There he is in an undershirt and shorts. And we did a terrific interview just about what he thought about the Russians. And believe me, he didn't think very highly of them. And he signed a couple of posters for me, spelled them incorrectly, couldn't spell murder to save his life, couldn't spell much on that poster, but I still have it to this day. And I went back and I was the hero the next morning for the morning news slot because I left

a lot of clips from Harold Ballard and nobody had really spoken to Harold at that time so I had an exclusive from him so that that was that was my first my first introduction to Harold Ballard and then because we were just north of Maple Leaf Gardens I mean every day I go over there to try to get stories and if you guys may remember do you remember when Harold Ballard banned women reporters from going into the dressing room oh I mean how'd that go over back then well back then it didn't go very well it was would have been in the early 80s and it was under what was called I guess equal access because Harold Ballard didn't want the media in there at all and then he put up the barrier of that there would be no women in there until the professional hockey writers association basically rebelled and scott morrison at one point let a

tirade into the room with all the reporters after the room had been closed for 10 minutes and they all just barreled in after harold ballard had kept them out of the room anyway and then a few weeks later after harold ballard, that night, actually, Harold Ballard came down in his wheelchair, waving his cane and hit a Globe and Mail newspaper photographer with it in the room because he had banned all reporters, didn't want them in there because he didn't want women in there. So a few days after he had banned the female reporters, I'm down there working for CBC television and I'm standing in the hallway and Harold Ballard comes down toward the Maple Leafs dressing room. I'm there there working for CBC television and I'm standing in the hallway and Harold Ballard comes down toward the Maple Leafs dressing room. I'm there with my cameraman. It's only

him, me and down walks Harold Ballard who banned the women from the room. And I'm lucky enough to see Harold coming at me and his first words to me are, is that fucking camera rolling? And I said, well, yes, it is. Well, shut it off. it off and i said why and then he said because i know why you're here and i said well harold you ban women from the room that's why we're here and he said i told the women if they want to take their clothes off they can go into the room because we got guys in there with cocks as long as your arm and i said harold i can't use that he was why not it's the truth so we never did and you know as the story went borya salman wasn't called king for nothing but that's how it was with harold ballard was he was he hung up well it's just rumor i couldn't

tell you old school jim m an old school Jim McKenzie? That could be. I wouldn't know either personally that way, but if you say so, I'll go with you on that one. People wonder about our wrench talk. They're now starting to realize this goes back in hockey culture a long ways. Harold Ballard was talking about it, for Christ's sake. Oh, yes, it did. And I never did use that and and i i regret that i let

the tape go and i don't know where it is i wished that i still kept it it never made air that night obviously got a laugh in the newsroom and i don't know how many people had copies of it but could you imagine the first time that video comes out it's on instagram could you yeah if this were in this day and age oh my goodness when that. We'll put it on the Stiglitz memes account. It would have been. But that was Harold. So every day, every day with Harold Ballard, you just never knew what you were going to get.

He'd be waving that cane at somebody. He'd be pissed at somebody else. But that's how he ran his team. You could always get a good clip. I remember one afternoon, we at north york centennial arena watching the leafs practice and we're talking about scouts because harold would do things on the cheap and we were trying and harold as the conversation went i said to harold are you going to hire more scouts and he said who has more scouts than us and i said well calgary edmonton

and he said what have they done and i said well they've recently won stanley cups and he said well who has more scouts than us? And I said, well, Calgary, Edmonton. And he said, what have they done? And I said, well, they've recently won Stanley Cups. And he said, well, they can have their Stanley Cups. I don't need more scouts. I got all the scouts I want. And then I'd ask him about hiring Mike Keenan as a coach. He said, I don't want any college cream puff hockey coach, was how he deemed it.

So this is Harold. This is Harold ruled the roost that way. It was always an adventure. every day you went down there. Those were actually fun times. That could have been the moment Mike Keane was like, fuck this. I'm going to be an asshole now. And way to go, Harold Ballard, fucking messed them all up. Whit, what did you go for?

Well, I'm interested in talking to you about the book that you published last year. And I believe it's called If These Walls Could Talk, the Detroit Red Wings. Over 9,000 copies sold already. Ken, not too shabby right there. Not too shabby. Just an incredible team to cover for this long with so many Hall of Fame players.

So I can't imagine how cool it was to actually do the research and remember a lot of things that you might have forgotten over the years of announcing this team. And you know what? That's actually why I did the book, because I knew if I waited any longer, I'd forget even more than I had. So luckily for me, and it was to be for my kids at the time, and when newspapers were prominent, I did keep a lot of articles. So I've maybe got 15 scrapbooks saved, done chronologically of my

career. So it did really come in helpful to look back and say, oh my God, I didn't remember that, or I didn't remember this. Oh yeah, that happened. So yeah, it did help to jot some of that stuff down. You know, the more recent stuff you remember, but early on my CBC days, not so much, the more recent stuff you remember, but early on my CBC days, not so much, but boy, I remember that O2 team. And that was such a wonderful team and the free agency of that summer. And when, you know, you already had Shanahan and Eisenman and Federoff, but in getting Dominic Hasek in a deal, and then you add, you add Brett Hall and you add Luke Robitaille.

And of course you already had Littstrom and your fourth line line, I think, was Robitaille, Larry Onoff, and Holmstrom that year. That was your fourth line in 2002. And then we go down to the Vancouver Canucks, 0-2 at home, and you're thinking, this was almost like Tampa Bay this year, right? Except Tampa Bay didn't win one. So it was almost the same thing. As great as that Hall of Fame team was in 0-2, like Tampa Bay this year, right? Except Tampa Bay didn't win one. So it was almost the same thing.

As great as that Hall of Fame team was in 02. And I remember being the first time on the plane that season. And we sit up near the front of the plane and you see all these guys coming past you. And I'm just going, holy shit, this is this is Hall of Fame team. This is unbelievable. And they didn't prove anybody wrong because during the regular season, they're outstanding. And then you hit the playoffs and you lose the first two games at home to the Sedins and you're down 0-2. And we're going to the airport that night and I get on the plane and Bowman and Holland are at the front of the plane. And I'm getting on right behind Steve Eisenman as he walks on. And Steve turns to both Bowman and Hollandlland and said we're not losing this series wow and he walked to the back of the plane and then that was the series oh sorry trump that was the series where lidstrom scored on clotier i think it was right from the red line and it

changed everything yeah and i remember my call specifically that night on his goal from center ice, like that 95-footer or whatever it was, and I said, that's just the break the Red Wings needed. And Brett Hall had a hat trick in that series, and that was the break they needed. That, Eisenman saying that, and then we land in Vancouver, and I wrote about this in the book, we're coming back on the bus, and I sat for many years right behind Ken Holland up until, well, until he's gone. So we sat on the bus. And when we arrived in Vancouver, there were

four cars made up mostly of teenagers with Vancouver Canucks flags flying out the window. And we land in Vancouver at two or three in the morning, whatever it was, Vancouver time. And they're trailing our bus all the way back to the Pan Pacific Hotel in Vancouver with the red wings suck and red wings this and you guys are shit, et cetera, et cetera. And Kenny turned to me, he goes, this ride is perfect. And I said, you got it. They just knew and it riled up the guys. And you could just sense it that the fans, I think, helped get the red wings. The bus was quiet nobody was saying anything but you could not help but hear them all and the next morning we go to skate and Ken Holland turns around to Mickey and me sitting right behind him and he said you two think Bertuzzi Naslin and Morrison are playing pretty well, don't you?

We said, well, first two games, yeah, they've been pretty good, he said to me. Mr. I thinks you do too. Oh, oh, whoa. I like that. That's a pee-pee whack right there. I like that. Yeah, and that was to the day that, sadly, Mr. Illich passed and the entire family.

We never heard of anything, anything. That's how great this ownership is with the Detroit Red Wings. Never a word. And I can hear from other broadcast teams through the league, and I don't know, Biz, what you've heard, but where ownership will get involved or don't want the broadcasters to say anything not a word and it wasn't like they told us not to say anything i just think the conversation was with kenny and and and mr i just talking about the series you know maybe daniels redmond don't stop talking about those guys which we did and i don't think i mentioned bertuzzi nasa nor morrison the rest of that Some guy from their team touched the puck.

Exactly. They got it. We got it. Not important, though. Not important. That's right. Not important. And I love Todd Bertuzzi, but I don't know if Todd touched the puck the rest of that series.

I'll tell you that. But the Red Wings won the next four games, so it really wasn't a factor. But that was the only time we heard about it. And of course, as soon as he says that to us, Mickey starts to laugh and then Kenny starts to laugh and it was over. And that's the last we ever heard of it. So that was that. And ironically enough, those kids chasing down the Red Wings bus

went on to grow up and burn the city down when the Bruins won the Cup years later. It all came full circle. They were riding. That is correct. They got their comeuppance. That's right. It's funny. You mentioned the 2002 Cup because I got a chance to go to the game in Carolina

that I believe ended in triple or double overtime with Larry Onoff scored a beautiful goal. But what I remember most is going in the locker room and getting to meet the players before the game and Steve Eisterman, he couldn't even walk. The guy didn't have – he was playing on one knee. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was – yes, he was a tripod. Yeah, every time that he had to get up, he had to use a stick to stand up with the radical knee surgery that he was a tripod yeah every time that he had to get up he had to use a stick to stand up uh with the knees the radical knee surgery that that he was undergoing and to think the way that

that guy played when he couldn't even couldn't i don't know how he skated i really don't it was remarkable and every shift you saw him if he was down on the ice just struggling to get back up but there he was again and and that's why he's one of the greatest leaders ever because the guys just followed his lead in that series. Just saw what he was doing and didn't look back. Yeah, it was amazing. Hey guys, real quick, let's take a minute to talk about how to wrap your stick. And no, I'm not talking about your Mylick or your Sherwood or any of those. I'm talking about your actual stick, what you use for sex. Yes, we want to talk about condoms, specifically Lalo Hex re-engineered condoms designed for you and your

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Not sure I'm going to need that one, but to get yours, just visit lalohex.com slash hex and enter the code biz33 to receive 33% off your order. That's l-e-l-o.com forward slash H-E-X and to code B-I-Z 33 to receive 33% off your order. And Canadians, they got you covered. Either go to the same site or stop by a local London drugs to pick up in person. Lalo, we've done the science, you do the sex. Speaking of Stevie Y why now that he's in charge of things how long do you think it is before they return to contendant status the red wings i mean

they had a nice little stretch there but they've kind of petered out a little bit the last few years oh yeah the last three years and i i think in part you know you had a new building coming so we're two years in the little caesars arena i think they would have liked to start the rebuild earlier but i understand why it didn't in the last, when you've got Datsuk and Zetterberg and you're trying to add to it, and that's the way that Kenny Holland always managed. You wanted those guys in the room to feel good about the job that they're doing. And you wanted to try to honor the guys who were in there by making it worth their while. And that's what he tried to do. And then you also had a new building coming in. You know, for people who think that a rebuild, guys, or four or five years it just isn't when

Boston Boston I got to give them credit considering the way their salary structure is and not very highly paid players in the contracts that they've got Bergeron on and Marchand and Pasternak amazing deals right I mean I don't know if Torrey Cruz, their high is paid, but close to it. So give them credit. When they missed the playoffs by what? Those two years straight, just a couple of points maybe, one year by a point.

They retooled a little bit, and then Lucic moved out. They made some good deals, but it's a rarity. Chicago came on when they did, but look at the picks that they had. When they win the lottery, you get Patrick Kane, and then you get Jonathan Taves third, and then where Pittsburgh came on, and you get Fleury first,

and you get Crosby first, you win a lottery, and then you get Malkin all in that time, and all of a sudden, you get those three guys, and then you're going, and then you're losing the final to Detroit in 08, and then you win the Stanley Cup in 09.

I think those two are really outliers. When you look at what you think a rebuild is, and Biz, you know all too well in Arizona how you can try to keep going. Columbus, after 20 years, finally wins a playoff series. The Maple Leafs and how long they've been trying to do it and still haven't got out of the first round. St. Louis Blues, maybe this is their year. Haven't won a Stanley Cup yet.

The San Jose Sharks, so people think, oh, rebuild should be three or four years. No, it's not. You got to be lucky in the draft. You got to pick high in the draft. And for the number of years through those 25 years that the Red Wings made the Stanley Cup playoffs, on average, on average through a majority of that time, maybe a couple of decades, do you know what their average first pick in the draft was at what number the Detroit Red Wings pick because of deals they had to make? You lose Vladdy Konstantinov, you lose Uri Fisher, you're trying to recoup. Think how good Vladdy would have been, right? And you lose him. And then you trade two first round picks to get Chelios. Think over those years, give me a number where you think the Detroit Red Wings

average draft pick was. I'd guess 50th overall. Not bad. 36th. Okay. Through all those years. Too much credit there. Yeah, I know.

That's remarkable. Because, yeah, you try to reload, and next thing you know, you've got to – now part of it helped because you were able to send guys down to the minors, and they were able to sit there longer and develop and and to me uh you know learn the little intangibles that not a lot not a lot of kids get to learn nowadays because nowadays it's just like hey you get drafted and you're pretty much right up like you guys were able to develop some very good players down in grand rapids that's right because and you could and through free agency but the red wings were also even in the salary cap era were the last team to miss the very good players down in Grand Rapids. That's right. Because, and you could and through free agency,

but the Red Wings were also, even in the salary cap era, were the last team to miss the playoffs. So they went through all that. They did it in the salary cap era too. You're right. And now the league, what's the average length of an NHL career now?

The average age of an NHLer is 23, 25. Used to be a lot older than that. The average length of a career is, what, five years? You know, when Zetterberg and Datsu came over, they were like 23 or 24. And then you're mixing them into a group where you got Shanahan and Eisenman and Federoff and Hull and everybody else and Lidstrom. So you can insulate them a little bit. Now it doesn't happen as much.

Even Tatar and Nyquist spent four years in the american hockey league yuri hudler spent time and was the the scoring champion in the american hockey league with something like 96 points jimmy howard spent four years in the american hockey league you're right it doesn't happen as much anymore but the league is the players today as opposed to then are coming in so much more highly skilled than they were then and so much better and in shape like never been before so i think some of those can play at an earlier age than you could in years past um one guy we haven't really talked about is nicholas lindstrom um i always say lindstrom on this podcast and people this time i got it right. Obviously, Stevie Y passed the torch over to him.

What were the differences in leadership qualities, and maybe they were exactly the same? Well, first off, there is a Gustav Lindstrom defenseman, so you will have it right going forward. There is a Lindstrom who the Red Wings are really high on coming, and it's not Lindstrom, but you're not alone. A lot of my friends always call them Lindstrom too. I don't know why, but it just happens that way.

Thank you. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, from Stevie, I mean, Nick, when I, you know, I'm not in the room, obviously, but I did speak to guys, and Zetterberg was the same way. He didn't speak a lot, but when he did, you knew that he wasn't messing around. And I don't know how, you know,

just Stevie could probably give you that look and you knew you better get going here the players even when they had a big game the next night you had to be back in on time you didn't want to be seen out one night and even Stevie find out about it I mean that's the way it was with him and with Nick too he wasn't boisterous in the room didn't say a whole, but he just led by example on the ice and was the type of guy you didn't want to let down with effort. Nick Lidstrom, as I talked about in the book, I don't know if it's even on one hand. Maybe it's one or two fingers, where Mickey and I, over the end of the night, and I was there since 97, so Nick came in around the 90

season or so, so missed the early part of his career. But to think he won all his seven Norris trophies second most to Robert Gordon or after the age of 31. Could you imagine a defenseman in this day and age winning the Norris trophy? Seven of them after 31? I don't think so. I mean, even if Eric Carlson gets a seven-year deal from someone, he hits a free agent mark, it'll be 35 when the deal's over. I don't know how many Norris trophies he's going to win going forward.

But Nick won seven after 31. And we're at the end of the night where I turn to Mick and go, boy, Nick had a rough night. Maybe once or twice. He just didn't get beat. But remember back in the day, and this was always Nick's trick, a player would go wide on him. He'd put the stick out.

He'd put the stick out and just force you wide, sort of poke you wide. Now in this day and age, more often than not, that may be called a hook if you got that in around the gloves. Not that Nick was always hooking, but his skating was so fluid. He was so wonderful in using his edges. Could take someone wide, and with the stick, you just weren't beating him. One-on-one, It was amazing to call. You saw a player come down on Lidstrom and I'm not thinking,

how's this guy going to get around him? I'm thinking how's Nick going to beat this guy and take it away from him. It was just amazing every night to watch it. Just as I would wait for a guy to come down Lidstrom and why they'd come down Nick's side, I'd never know. And when Nick was out there and whether it be with Brad Stewart or anyone else, the key was they made dumping in his corner, but he always had a defenseman to go pick it up first. The other guy would go in there and get that puck first and save the wear and tear on him. But I don't know if Nick hit many, and Nick didn't get hit very often. He was just that great. His

peripheral vision was just amazing. It was a pleasure to watch him. My idol growing up was Bobby Orr. I loved Bernie Prandt and Go goal for the Flyers, played a little bit with Toronto. I loved watching Bobby Orr. He was my idol. I've got, the Bruins gave me a DVD. I've got maybe two and a half hours of Fred Cusick for the most part, just calling Bobby Orr, just clip of clip of clip of clip of Orr assist or goal or fight or block shot, just going for it. I could watch that for hours, and I could do the same for Nick Lidstrom. So very fortunate to grow up watching Bobby, and then to be able to call Nick Lidstrom for as many years as I did. I'm a very lucky guy.

Yeah, he's a hell of a player. You also worked with Scotty Bowman for quite a while. What kind of character was he like working with? Sometimes some people say he's kind of a strange duck sometimes, but other people say different things. What was your experience like with him? You know, to this day, I love Scotty. He was wonderful to talk hockey with.

We would go out at night for drinks or just watch games or go have dinner. You know, you'd arrive back on a hotel trip. You'd fly into Vancouver somewhere at 2 o'clock in the morning, and the Seekers would be outside and that would piss Scotty off like nothing else. He'd be fuming. You'd see him at the front of the bus. He'd see the autographed Seekers. You'd come off and he'd walk out there and go, yeah, how much? How much? It's going to be on eBay in 30 minutes. 30 minutes. It'll be on eBay. And then he'd go in the hotel and he'd be pissed if the guys were waiting out there for

signatures. We'd go watch games. And one night we were in Denver at ESPN Zone. We were playing Denver that night and then going on to play the St. Louis Blues. And it was March Madness. And that's how I remember it. So all the games at ESPN Zone were on basketball. There was no doubt about that. But Scotty and I had a little table there with a little TV so we could watch the St. Louis Blues that night. And we're watching the Blues game starts and a basketball game is on and the place just goes crazy. And Scotty looks up at the screen.

He looks at me, looks back at the screen, and I'm pretty much the top of his lungs. He screams out, lungs he screams out f me f me it's five two it's five two i got the point why do you care that a basketball game is five two at some point it's going to be 30 25 but that was scotty so we we had our moments when when we we didn't talk uh for a while and you have to wait him out because you can't let scotty gets the best of you and just like a player i think he likes after a while and you have to wait him out because you can't let scotty get the best of you and just like a player i think he likes after a while where somebody will stand up to you if you you're going to be a pushover for scotty you'll always be a pushover for him right he'll just take advantage of you and uh probably the the scariest incident for me it was uh january it was january of 2001 we were going after a game from san jose to vancouver and we ended up in sacramento because on our dc9 this was redbird one it's been

three incarnations of redbirds since and there was a problem I don't know whether it was fuel or something else with the engines. And one engine went, then the other engine went, and it was really quiet up there. And everybody was quiet until you heard Scotty say to Barry at the front of the plane, Barry, Barry, what's going on? And all you heard Barry Smith say back to Scotty was, I don't know, I'm not a fucking pilot. So that sort of broke a little bit of the tension, but we were a little worried at that point. And we wound up with an emergency landing and the pilots did a wonderful job. And I talk all about it in my book and we landed in Sacramento and there are fire engines as you come in there to land in Sacramento. So it was fine. The landing was just fine. Larry Murphy's on there. Marty LaPointe's ready for a

new contract. As we're getting off the plane, Kenny Holland turns to me and says, I think maybe we should put a contract under Marty's nose right now. I said, that may not be a bad idea. We just landed. Everything was fine. Larry Murphy gets off the plane and Murph says, we're going to put this frigging plane on eBay. So I said, okay, fine. So we get to the hotel. We're staying in a Hyatt now in Sacramento. And the next day we borrowed a plane, which maybe was taken the penguins to Dallas. I can't remember exactly, but we borrowed another charter aircraft because don't forget, we were going from San Jose to Vancouver. So we had to get there, right?

So we borrowed another jet. And I was on the radio that morning on the classic rock station in Detroit, which I did twice a week in the mornings. Now remember, this happened at probably four o'clock in the morning Detroit time. So it was all over the local news stations in the morning. There were television cameras as we landed in Sacramento. So it wasn't a secret. So I went on the radio station at 7.15 in the morning Eastern, 4.15 out in Sacramento time. And I told the story. I came down the elevator the next morning because we're all going to meet, get on the bus, get on the plane and fly on to Vancouver on a charter aircraft. As I'm coming down the elevator, Barry Smith gets on the elevator. He forgot something upstairs and he said, you better look out. Bowman's on the warpath. And I said, what are you talking about? He said, I don't know.

It was something you said on the radio. Now, I didn't say anything wrong on the radio, to be honest, guys, I really didn't. I was really careful about that. But I guess what happened was probably someone heard it about what happened in Detroit and phoned Scotty, who was friends with Scotty, and told him. So Scotty runs into me and came, made a beeline for me. And he said, what the hell? You went on the radio station to Detroit. Who are you working for? You're working for the Red Wings or your media? Who are you? Who are you? And basically at that point, I told Scotty where he could stuff it. And Matthew Dandenau and Brent Kilchrist were standing there in the lobby.

Their mouths dropped. They couldn't believe what I had just said to Bowman. I think they would have applauded if the head coach had not been standing right there. But at any rate, I went back at Scotty because quite frankly, I didn't think I had done anything wrong while Scotty and I didn't talk for the next six weeks because he pissed me off. I mean, here we are, you know, thinking we could all end here, but thankfully because the pilots did such a great job, it ended just fine and it was all right. And then about six weeks later, we're in Boston. And again, a late night and we check in in the hotel and I see Bowman. He sees me, and I go the other way around the corner waiting for the elevator to go up to the room. About a minute later, Redman walks over to me, and Mickey says, you got him. And I said, got what?

He said, Bowman, he just said to me, your partner's pissed, hasn't talked to me in six weeks. I said, okay, it's over. That's all I needed. It was over. He blinked. That was it. So, you know, it's over. He blinked. That's all I needed. He blinked. It was over. He blinked. That was it. So, you know, that's Bowman. But I love Scotty, and he was wonderful.

He kept you on edge. Scotty always used to say to me, and Kenny Holland did the same thing. Kenny used to come up to me all the time and say, what do you think? What do you think? And I said, well, now you're sounding like Bowman. Because Scotty used to say, what do you think? What do you think? And Kenny used to say to me, I may sound like Scotty, but unlike Bowman, I actually give a shit what you think.

That's probably true because that was Scotty and Kenny. And that's what made them so great is they get opinions from other people. They may not care about your opinion, but it wouldn't just be me. They'd be asking, they'd be asking people a hell of a lot more important than me. Just what they think about the hockey world or what do you think about a trade or what do you think about this guy. And then they round up all these opinions and ultimately they'll make their own. But that's what makes them so good.

They don't work just out of a box. They talk to people and personable. And that's why I love working with both those guys so much. Ken, I know you wanted to talk about your son, Jamie, who passed away in 2016 and the foundation that you started in his honor. And by the way, we offer our deepest condolences on your loss. But I know you did want to talk, of course, but I know you did want to talk about the foundation you started in your son.

It was opiate use or abuse he passed away from, correct? Yes. I know they have different terminology nowadays they use and you started a foundation to help young people who basically can't afford to get that first month of rehab and education and then sober living after that's basically where you're trying to help these people out, correct? 100% and jamiedanielsfoundation.org is where you can go. We're updating the site now under resources, and we've got sites up there, and it's going to be nationwide, and they're vetted by a consulting firm we work with here

and with Families Against Narcotics. So you're not going to run into these sites who are just into it for insurance, and that's how Jamie got what is called patient brokered in Florida. He'd been addicted to opioids from his freshman year in college when a friend turned him on to opioids, and you can become addicted to opioids within five days. It changes the chemical receptors in your brain. And your cognitive responses to be able to say no just aren't there. And we didn't know that at the time with Jamie. And graduated from Michigan State with a 3.5.

He was a pretty bright kid and wanted to work perhaps as a sports agent or go into law. And gone into rehab here when he finally said to us, I need to go to rehab. And as a parent, those are the greatest words you can ever hear because when you're over 18, they don't have to. You can sign them in. They don't have to stay. But Jamie wanted to go and went through two here that weren't successful.

And then we sent him to Florida, was successful, to a place called Beachway Therapy, and was in there for 30 days of detoxing. And you guys likely know and you've dealt with probably opioid addiction through your, not yourselves, but through your lives and know people who've gone through it. And if people don't think it's happening in your home, it's probably happening two or three doors down because two and a half million Americans right now are addicted to opioids. Four out of five heroin users turned to opioids because heroin or started on opioids turned to heroin because heroin's cheaper. That's what happens. Four to five heroin users started on opioids. It's that easy because

after all, if a doctor prescribed it, it must be okay, right? No, it's not. The Vicodin, the Percocet and all the rest of them and doctors who are now starting to learn we can't prescribe what we're prescribing. It's starting to come down. But Jamie went to Florida, was working for seven months in a safe, sober living home. He was working at a law firm and then got what is called patient brokered, where someone enticed him rather than $245 a week where you're drug tested, safe, sober living environment. While you're working, you're drug tested safe sober living environment while you're working you're required to find a job and jamie was doing all that until he went to a 12-step meeting and some kid patient brokered him and say why are you paying that come to the place where i live it's

only 50 bucks a month and it's covered by insurance jamie called me i begged him not to leave but you know you're 23 years old and you're thinking, I'm going to have more money. I'm good, dad, was all he said. I'm good. And then you go to this home, which is anything but safe because there's nothing but drugs in that home. Then they send you to a doctor who's a so-called addiction specialist through that home. And he's not because he prescribed Jamie a generic form of Xanax. What doctor puts a kid who's a recovering addict sent to buy a home, supposedly they would know where he came from, and put him on Xanax. You can't have a recovering addict on Xanax. You're prone to blackouts. You're prone to feeling better

than you are. And again, your mind's not thinking straight because it can't. And then that doctor sends out your lab tests. And then that lab bills the insurance company we got bills for jamie peeing in a cup and complete blood work for five thousand dollars seventeen thousand dollars we got bills over a couple weeks for more than sixty thousand dollars for blood work and that's how the florida shuffle worked you go to a home your patient brokered they send out the lab results they built the insurance company and then you're supposed to pay for that. And the kids winds up going through detox again, because it goes through the system. And that's where they make your money. So this is what our foundation is trying to end with give you reputable sites for

where you can go. They're not cheap. Jamie's one month in beachway therapy was between 17 and $20,000. There are some that are $30,000. But those that will be on our site, if it's not today, it'll be up there in the next week and updated and they change frequently. People who have someone in trouble, do your due diligence, call these places.

And if you think it's too much money or they're not covered by insurance or they're not dual diagnosis, meaning mental health as well, beyond just opioid addiction, you need that too. Mental health is opioid addiction. need that too mental health is opioid addiction mental health forms in all different ways it's not just cut and dry so do

your due diligence don't get into a situation that you know upwards of three years ago now we didn't know and we live by the motto if i only knew then what we know now and this is why our foundation and i know i've spoken to so many people, and Jamie's already saved so many lives. And our ultimate goal is to build the Jamie Daniels Recovery Center here in southeastern Michigan. We're surveying sites now where people, regardless of the income they have or the insurance that they have, if they've got a job, a certain percentage of that work will be held back to pay for the rent. But if you need to stay there for one year, two years, three years, five years, you can live there as long as you need to be in a safe, sober living environment with treatment, all your meetings, all your help, therapy, art therapy,

music therapy, everything on site. Addicts don't want to be addicts. And this is what people don't understand. They can't help help themselves their frontal lobe is screwed up the chemical receptors the glutamate receptors in the brain aren't there their cognitive reasoning isn't there i don't know how many times we said to jamie just stop man and he said yeah i'm good i'm good he can't can't help himself because the thought of going through detox and being as sick as they are, they'd rather be high. I spoke to doctors and you know Narcan is a spray you put in someone who's overdosed in their nose to bring them back because unfortunately Jamie died taking a pill. He never shot up but he was addicted to opioids and one of the opioid pills he got in this house which was supposed to be

sober but wasn't from someone who lived there was laced with fentanyl and even a speck of fentanyl a grain of sand will kill you and shock your heart and that's what happened to jamie we're not absolving jamie for taking that pill he should have known he shouldn't have taken anything but a doctor putting him on xanax made him feel better than he was and he's surrounded by that environment of drugs in that house but But again, addicts can't say no. They don't want to go through that withdrawal. I've spoken to police officers who have used Narcan on patients on the street who've overdosed, and the cops have brought them back to life with Narcan.

And I said, what is that addict's reaction when you bring them back to life? And a number of cops have told me, oh, they're pissed. We ruined their high. So you think they're thinking straight? They're not. And that's how sad it is. We have to stop doctors over prescribing. If you've got medication in your medicine cabinet, 12 year olds, 14 year olds, 15 year olds are going to get there. Maybe you had knee surgery or shoulder surgery a year ago and it's sitting in your medicine cabinet. Dispose of it. Put it in coffee grounds. Put it in kitty litter. Don't flush it down the toilet because we've got a problem in Lake Superior where the fish have high levels of opioids in the fish because people are flushing it in the system. We've got a big problem

up in the UP of the Upper Peninsula here in Michigan, and how many parents, how many mothers, kids are born addicted because they are, and then they're on methadone, and then they become wards of the state. We're losing seven people an hour in the United States to an overdose death because of opioids. This has to end, and we're doing our part. But if everyone who listens to this wonderful podcast tells 10 people what they hear, who tell 10 people what they hear, get the opioids out of your home, because believe me, there's peer pressure from a 14 year old coming home and a friend says, let's try this. And you see a doctor's script and that can't hurt us. That's what my son thought

when someone turned him on to opioids in his freshman year of college. Within five days, he was toast, and it ultimately took his life. Well, Ken, I mean, I can't imagine what you've gone through. And as R.A. said, our thoughts and prayers go out to you. And for everyone listening, the foundation, the website is jamiedanielsfoundation.org. You can find Jamie's story there, resources to find help for other people that are struggling with mental health and addiction. And so I tell everyone to get on there. You can make a donation if you'd like. And we thank you so much for coming on and giving some great stories and also telling us about a heartbreak that your family went through.

So we're thinking of you, and we thank you very much for coming on and joining. Thank you, guys. I'll just say that the brain isn't the only organ affected by opioid use. It also breaks hearts. It broke our family's heart. It'll never be repaired. But there will be a night of laughs. The Jamie Daniels Foundation, the first annual celebrity roast, and our first roasty is going to be Mickey Redmond. to be Mickey Redmond. And it's coming up on September 7th at Motor City Casino here in Detroit. And if you type in Jamie Daniels Foundation on Ticketmaster, after July the 1st, tickets are available for $150.

So if you're in the area, Mike Emmerich's MCing, we're roasting Mickey, John Davidson, Ray Ferraro, Jim Ralph, Scotty Bowman, Mike Babcock, and Marcel Dion are all going to be roasting. We're flying Nick Lidstrom and Thomas Holmstrom are coming in from Sweden for the event. All the Red Wing players are going to be there. We're almost sold out of tables, but we'll have a public sale of tickets at $150. A ticket for Motor City after July 1st.

Go on Ticketmaster, Jamie Daniels Foundation, type that in. We'd love to see you there. It's going to be a fantastic night, and all the proceeds from that night are going to go toward building Jamie's Recovery Center here in Michigan. So I thank you guys for all the great stuff you do. You give me all the laughs and thank you for letting me tell Jamie's story and my story. Thank you. Of course. Thank you. We'll see you soon. Absolutely. Thanks guys. That interview was also brought to you by SeatGeek. Buying tickets can be complicated and confusing, but there is a simpler way to buy with SeatGeek. SeatGeek is the smartest, easiest way to get tickets for every type of live event.

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That's promo code Hockey for $10 off your first SeatGeek purchase. SeatGeek, right seat, right now, right from your phone. Once again, thank you to ken daniels for coming on you know things got a little bit intense there towards the end but a lot of knowledge there from a guy who went through a lot and it's great to see that he could turn that into into a positive to educate others on something that affected his family to that extent um coming out of that there's one thing i want to talk about. It was in the Boston Bruins locker room I thought was very cool. And I know I might have sounded a little bit hard on Chara midway

through playoffs with him slowing down a little bit. It wasn't a knock. It was just an observation. I hope he can be healthy for the finals because he's been such a leader and a great ambassador for the Boston Bruins, unbelievable in the community. And one thing that he said about leadership in the locker room on a practice day the other day, Grinelli, if you could roll the clip, it was spectacular, very well said, and a lot of you kids out there can learn a thing or two from what he said here.

Age doesn't really separate, you know, the conversations or personalities. I think that, you know, I've been saying that for a long time. We are treating everybody the same way, no matter if he's 18 or 40 or somebody has 1,000 games or playing his first game. We treat each other with respect and the same way as everybody else in the locker room I said it many times since a very young age I didn't like the separation

inside a team between young players and older players players who accomplish something players who just come into the league I don't like to use the word rookie there are teammates and you know um yeah i just i just don't don't like to separate you know like i don't think that's that's the right thing to do i think that you know once you're a team your team and and regardless of

the age or or accomplishments you know we we have to treat each other with respect and in the same way that's unreal right there it's great to hear and and speaking of leadership it's actually You know, we have to treat each other with respect in the same way. That's unreal right there. It's great to hear. And speaking of leadership, it's actually perfect because it leads me into something I did last year. When RA, Biz, you guys remember we talked at Memorial Day, which is coming up here, about a couple of special guys that I knew and John Moynihan and Chris Pelletier and what they had been through. And so ironically enough, uh, I was at Ned's wedding and a cousin of his great guy,

John Boyle, uh, went to West point and he came up and, and we were just shooting the shit. And he, he, he said, Hey,

that Memorial day thing you did for last year. That was great. I was like, Oh, thank you so much coming from you. I mean like that, that means the world. I was just trying not to fumble,

fuck my words. And so it was a good combo. And mean, like that, that means the world. I was just trying not to fumble fuck my words. And so it was a good combo and he's like, man, I, I, I have a special guy that you could, you could talk about. And, and, and I think he would have loved chicklets. And, and I was like, for sure. So we got in touch and I was able to hear a little bit about a really special person that I actually remember hearing the story back when everything went down, but a guy named Derek Hines. And Derek Hines, he grew up in Newburyport right outside of Boston.

I mean, maybe 30, 40 minutes. Played at St. John's Prep. He was the captain of the hockey team. Just a great guy. And then he went to West Point. So him and John, Ned's cousin, they were roommates. He said he was just such a good guy. The team loved him.

Just a special person. Always the first guy in on the four check, on and off the ice, he told me. He's like, night out in New York City, this kid's leading the charge. Getting in on the ice, this kid's a complete animal. Just a warrior at West Point. And then he goes on, he graduates, and he was the graduate assistant. So he did that for years. So you're hanging out with the guys you played with.

But, I mean, you've got to be respected, right? To do that, all of a sudden you're considered kind of a coach. And, you know, so he does that. He graduated from West Point in 2003. I forgot to say that, which is just an honor in itself. Everyone who does that, I get to spend a little time there once at the Penguins training camp. What an incredible place and amazing people. He then went on and he graduated from U.S. Army Ranger School.

So you're going to talk about people who are the best of the best. That's what we're talking about with Derek Hines. And he was stationed in Vicenza, Italy with the 173rd Airborne Division, which is one of the U.S. Army's elite fighting units. And that's pretty cool to hear. You know, local kid and did a lot. Well, on September 1st, 2005, he was mortally wounded by a small arms fire during a gunfight in Afghanistan.

And all firsthand accounts from that night, from this kid, John, was that he was just a complete legend. And that, uh, he said that he eliminated more than one enemy after he was shot. So he fought till his last breath. And I think it's cool that we bring up him. And,

and it's funny because I told John that night that people come up to me and say like, it's you guys too. We, we heard it at the watch party. They come up and they're like, thanks so much guys for chicklets. I'm always like, dude, thank you.

Like, it's so weird when people come up and say thanks because and it's so appreciated. But it's like, thank you for listening. Like, I couldn't say it more right back to you. And so today, what a perfect day to say thanks to all the men and women who are out there. And it's just incredible to see, especially when we hear about people who listen and enjoy our show that, I mean, are stationed away from their families and have fought for our country, U.S. and Canada. So I thought it'd be special to bring up Derek Hines,

and that's someone that we can all think about as Memorial Day comes up. So good to see you. That was heavy. Fucking right. Well said, man. That's pulling on the emotional strings there. comes up so that was heavy fucking right well said man that's uh pulling on the emotional strings

there uh just just i mean those people i mean you it's like sometimes you say i bitch about fucking making a double and missing

the cut and then it's like you know what i mean like these people put things in perspective so thank you to all you guys and i

think that's a good way to end this week so um looking forward to seeing everyone come see us. Hurricanes Monday, Tuesday,

Wednesday, six to seven. We're going to get a bunch of fun interviews and content. Well, these get business in Boston cup finals coming up. Thanks for listening as always. So we'll see you soon. That's right.

Great point. Which remember, remember those who are lost this weekend. It's not just about hamburgers and getting boozed up. Take a moment to pause and reflect on those. We've lost in the past. Everybody have a great Memorial Day weekend, and we'll see you Monday. May the good Lord be with you down every road you roam

And may sunshine and happiness surround you when you're far from home Thank you.