Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 223: Featuring Chris Chelios

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

On Monday's episode of Spittin' Chiclets the guys are joined by 3x Stanley Cup champion and member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Chris Chelios. Chris joins to talk about his three Stanley Cups, his career, playing for Mike Babcock and a ton more. The guys also touch on some NHL news including the Bill Peters situation, RA does a Gambling Corner and the boys try to help Rudy from Barstool Sports find love.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello everybody, welcome to episode 223 of Spittin' Chickas, presented by Pink Whitney, the pink lemonade-flavored vodka from our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka. I gotta say, it's nothing like seeing the boys on a national TV commercial during the game the other day. Some good stuff. And all the coaches done. We got a big name on the trading block.

We got comeback records being set. We'll get to that in a little bit. Let's say hello to the boys., producer Mike E. Grinelli. What's going on, guys? Jesus Christ. Thank God we have the best listeners in the world because I can't hit a bet for the life of me. And those guys saved me on Black Friday. They were awesome. They bought a ton of gear on Black Friday. I know they're going to buy a ton more on Cyber Monday where 20% off the whole site. So I'm struggling right now, but our listeners are helping me out big time. I guess you didn't follow my five and a week on the corner,

but we'll get to that a little later. Let's go to Biz next. I love that smile, Biz. What's up, buddy? You've been buzzing lately. You're just high on life right now, aren't you, RA? Among other things, yeah. No, it's been good, man.

I had a good week gambling. I've just been feeling it lately, man. I don't know. I think you got my confidence back, Biz. It's been stroking man. I had a good week gambling. I've just been feeling it lately, man. I don't know. I think you got my confidence back because it's been stroking good. All from the karaoke? Just in general. Ripple effect. Like I said, you're like my coach sometimes.

You call me out when I need to, but you also give me a good pep talk every once in a while, and it works good. I love it. I love it. We're playing too many tummy sticks right now, though. We've got to pass it over to our other guy here. Appropriately enough, a tape-to-tape pass

to our boy, the Whit Dog or Ryan Whitney. What's going on, man? What's going on, guys? In Vegas, great to talk to you. It's early out here. You two are just blowing each other there. Let's take it easy. R.A. would also be the first guy to cry if you really went too hard on him. It would be R.A.'s Me Too hockey movement.

No. I think, R.A.'s Me Too hockey movement. I think R.A. the gambling, stay hot. You take a lot of pride in it. I can tell. Somebody chirped here last night on Twitter. He said, I want you to check out my 5-0 last two picks, last two segments. I understand. You're making

people money. It's a good feeling. It's good. My brother's on Twitter now. He's a college football nut. He went 3-1 yesterday. We'll talk about him a little later when we get to the corner. First, boys, we don't want to delay the announcement of our guest today. This came together sort of late. He reached out to us after all this Babcock stuff,

so we weren't going to wait to do it in person. We did it over the phone. The legend himself, Chris Chelios. Dude, I know we pump the tires on these interviews a lot but this one was fucking incredible put it this way I went upstairs after I finished the recording and there was some people in the house and I told them we were

getting a hall of fame legend I was going downstairs to do a huge interview for us and I came up and they said how'd it go I said amazing but I didn't look happy you know and they were like what's wrong I said I could just only imagine if it was in person, it was that good of an interview. But when we get guys in person, it just changes. Still having said that we will get him in person. That's what's nice. He he'll definitely come on again. He told us that, but this first

time getting to finally hear some of his stories, which are laugh out loud, funny. Uh, I think everyone's going to really enjoy it because true legend of the game who biz you tell the story but he pigeon tossed you a year ago he didn't even know what spit and chicklets was and then he came on early and he was stroking us i called him out at the end of the interview but i will say this he said no i didn't so maybe that resting bitch face is just his natural reaction when pigeons ask him if he wants to come on their podcast. But I saw him at the United Center. But to his defense, though, he keeps a lot in the vault.

He's old school like that. So as good as the interview was, you could imagine these stories that this guy has hidden away in the tombs. What do you say when it's like the mum away in the in the tombs hey what do you say when it's like the the mummification and like the tombs yeah well it's what they call those things the pyramids and if you really think about it dude he could his pyramid would be triple the size of the other pyramids in cairo where you know where are those are they is it cairo all right i needed your worldly experience in order to help me polish off the rest of my life.

Yeah, apparently you can go walk around in those things too. Monstrous. You know, you can't really sense the true size of them because there's no scale. But guess what? If you look at a picture in the desert, you don't know. There's nothing behind it. But guess what? When you go to those pyramids, no cameras inside.

Just like Chelios. You ain't fucking here in the vault stories, okay, boys? Check your phones at the pyramid door. But when you have a legend like that on, he's got enough of his own stories that don't involve anyone else that he can carry his own episode. We mentioned he reached out. He had a few things to say about Babcock,

and I know that some of you who are listening may think, hey, you guys are starting to pile on a little bit, and I forgot to mention it last episode because Grinelli texted me while we were on recording. Dude, I always gave him benefit of the doubt. I never – even with the commie stuff, you know, I still kind of was like, I don't know. I mean, there's two sides to every story.

You guys were texting each other, weren't you? No, he called me uh which aren't when we were doing our call their cup run and i think they i think detroit at the time was down three nothing in their playoff series their nhl passes and i get a phone call from a number that i didn't have and fuck i can't remember if i answered it or it was a voicemail but it was actually i did answer it and and it was Mike Babcock. So I'm kind of like laughing in my head. I thought somebody was fucking with me.

I thought your boy, what's his name? I thought Foles was fucking calling me. Right. So he wanted me to go to his, his like charity turn. I thought it was a little bit weird that he was calling me when they were down three,

nothing at playoffs. So, I mean, for one of the greatest all time, I mean, he's got to get his head in it for three and oh comebacks right uh but uh it's it's shitty to hear all this stuff coming out i know hockey's been taking a bit of a beating the last couple weeks as far as maybe some of the big personalities in it but hey when a legend says he wants to come on and now that's

the reason we can get him on we're gonna do it and uh he had a few personal stories of his own that he shared and it was just weird to hear that the treatment of an nhl legend and really at the time when babcock first got him at that point he was pretty much headed on the way to the hall of fame right oh i mean he was out no doubt right so it's like that's the treatment of a guy who's like that important to hockey and you're gonna like just like pigeon toss him a little bit that important to hockey and you're going to like, just like pigeon toss him a little bit, dude,

he, he, he had played a long time and had done as much, pretty much as much as you could do in, in hockey before he met him. And still, like you said, was treated like that. And before we move on from this interview or the,

the little preview of it, this, if you don't laugh out loud, listening to the story of him at Wrigley Field and that outdoor classic. Oh, my God. Don't ever come up and introduce yourself to me. Don't ever ask me to do anything. Don't ever even think that me and you would have anything in common

because that's one of the funniest stories I've ever heard in my life. No doubt about it. I paused where I thought I'd misheard. Yeah, I was like. I didn't know whether to laugh or to be like, all right, right that's enough of a tease we're yeah we're now we're stroking off ourselves here speaking of uh pranks with did you did you ever get to the bottom of that attempted prank a couple weeks ago remember

someone was trying to set you up did you did you ever figure out who that was remember no person stopped texting me i was wasting my time yeah yeah we got you off was it you no no absolutely not yeah i was i was gonna hop in r.a and uh and you guys kind of chiming away about nonsense there reminded me you you saw that movie with robert denier when oh i saw that too the irishman okay now i haven't seen it yet and and of course you know when you give such high praise to a movie i'm definitely putting it on my list thank you and kfc tweeted out a kind of like a fight scene from it. And I'm going to tell you what, all right.

KFC was bang on the fact. All right. That's the one thing I need to talk about. The fact that De Niro is, is as old as he is. And they tried to like incorporate them into that fight scene outside of his, what was it like a,

like a grocery store buddy. And he just couldn't even walk he could he could barely walk it i i think i have to write the movie off you can't have a high budget movie like that and have that type of nonsense in it i would say even if the movie's a nine i'm gonna deduct a full point for that not to not to not to pound bully on ra he said in his blog did you read the blog he wrote very well written very well written by the way i enjoyed reading it but in the blog he said you could never at any point in the movie tell the differences in ages as they change them throughout the years i was like right away that fight scene dude was like a uh it was like a old folks home fight over the shuffleboard.

He was supposed to be like a young... He was actually in his 40s at that stage. He was in his 40s. He was moving like he was in his 110s. But first off, KFC's opinion on movies, I don't put much stock in once he fucking first... I'm going in dark because I didn't even know he had

opinions on movies until I passed along that tweet. So I'm coming from a non-biased standpoint where he was bang on about that was ridiculous. Well, that was three seconds of a three and a half hour movie. Again, I love KFC. We go way back. But his opinion, I mean, he just saw The Godfather a year ago and he fucking dumped on it. So that says it all right there. Yeah, the scene with De Niro, he did look like an old guy beating up beating the other guy up or whatever but that wasn't even the point of the

scene it was about not really spoilers here it was about showing how he his daughter saw how violent he was that was like when the whole relationship so it had to be shown well yeah he's saying that it doesn't matter like how it went down because all that matters is that she's seeing her father is this like enforcer bad type of person my whole point being the effect on the movie it would have had he beat the absolute piss out of this guy instead of like hitting him with like a pillow from his bed well he was hitting them with the muffins and then the guy would be like flying it yeah it just looked so like why would his daughter be upset about that? My dad just hugged him for 10 minutes. And I think they might have been better off actually doing a 40-year-old

and just superimposing De Niro's head. Like, that might have looked better. You got to see the movie, though, Biz, because this is kind of like going to the Grand Canyon and saying, oh, there's a fucking gum wrapper on the floor, you know what I mean? It's like, come on. That's such a good comparison. All right, you win because of that.

Fuck it, let's move on. Even The Godfather. I mean, Sonny Corleone missed that one punch by a foot. It doesn't mean The Godfather is still not one of the best movies ever. But I want you to watch it, Biz. I want your opinion. And like I said in the review, don't go in expecting goodfellas. I think people see De Niro, Pesci, Scorsese.

Yeah, I just – I mean, as far as the missing a punch by the foot there, like I hold myself to a higher standard because I do my own stunts. I don't know if you guys saw the Vancouver Warriors lacrosse video. I do my own stunts. Yeah, I know, and you probably got another torn ACL. You're fourth. So real quick, Will, what And you probably got another torn ACL. You're fourth. So real quick, what would you give it for a grade?

B to B+. I thought it was cool and I learned a lot of stuff that I didn't know. And you had told me going in, don't expect the Goodfellas type action with old Scorsese movies. It just was long and kind of boring to me

at times. Like I said said i learned a lot and thought that was really cool and i thought that joe pesci was unreal joe pesci he played this i'm not whatever i don't even say who he played but it was it was good it was just it was not it you gave it an a plus i thought that was severely overgraded i'll i'll reach to b plus Okay. I think Biz would hate it unless he had 9 Adderall in him. That's not true. That's not true. I can watch movies where it's all good acting, where the script doesn't move fast.

Okay, all right. Then you watch it before Wednesday's recording. No Country for Old Men I love. There Will Be Blood was one of my favorite movies of all time. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the ambiguous ending. Two of the best right there, Biz. Yeah, so don't churn me about my ADD, bro. Oh, snap.

All right, well, we got some news. We got some follow-up from the big stuff last week. On Friday, Calgary Flames, well, then head coach Bill Peters, he did resign as head coach of the Flames after he admitted to using racist language toward former player Akeem Malou when he coached him in AHL Rockford a decade ago. I think the Flames, everyone was like, oh, what are they waiting for? What are they waiting for? I think the Flames and, you know, GM Brad Tree live and they needed to do their due diligence, A, on the story and B, also the legality of it. Because, you know, what Peters did happen 10 years ago, he wasn't working for

the Flames. So they can't just fire him uh you know out of the blue so they had to fucking basically tell him listen man we can't have you behind the bench anymore i would assume there's maybe they probably gave him a little bit of a i don't want to say settlement but he still had a this year and next year on his contract uh i think they probably said hey we'll give you whatever maybe fucking half a year old just go away there'll be no more future litigation uh because you can't have that guy behind the bench anymore. Right. And this day and age, you can't have a coach.

It wasn't happening like 30 years ago. It happened 10 years ago. Yeah. That was a no brainer. Everyone kind of just said they were going through the course of legal action. And the, the, the interesting one, his apology to do. So I'll say about that, that's a lawyer telling you what you can and can't write. Right. That is lawyer speak right there.

And there is – who knows, if he had brought up Alou and said sorry for that, then is he admitting to something that could then be further brought against him? So it reads kind of cold and not very um what's the word like true uh forth forthcoming is that the word i'm thinking of whatever doesn't matter it doesn't read legit you just wondered like what is this but i think it was just a lawyer telling him what to write and what he can and cannot say but he's gone that makes total sense no questions about it and i don't could you ever see him getting another head job head coaching job is in the nhl no no i don't know why yeah it's um that's pretty much the end of them you know coaching in the nhl is a you know a privilege not a right so i think that in that

sense he's toast now i i think he deserves what he's gotten if he can't coach anymore just based on the fact that, well, at least from Hakeem Alou's side, Peter's kind of denied the fact that he didn't call him in and double down. He said he apologized for it. So there's still some issues in the story here. Now, it's hard for me to give Peter's benefit of the doubt based on the fact that he admitted originally saying it. And then, of course, all this other stuff comes out. So, like, it's already, like, the moral compass on him.

You're like, ugh. Like, I'm assuming he did double down because he seems like he is a bit of an angry fucking guy. Now, what's shitty about it is when somebody has gotten so dark as he's gotten, society nowadays kind of writes him off. dark as he's gotten society nowadays kind of writes him off where I, I hope that bill Peters is genuinely sorry about all this. And maybe is like taking a step back and is like, Holy fuck, man. Like what was like, this is a game. And like, I was, I was getting to this point over maybe, like I said, last episode, could it have been the pressure that got to him?

Could have been the fact that, you know, when he was coached or in the people, maybe he was, or he was specifically around not saying all of them were like that back then, but somehow morphed him into like, to what, to what he was. So, I mean, clearly, clearly he's got some stuff that he needs to work out with himself personally. And I hope that he's able to now take the time in order to go do that. that because like nowadays like it should it be like this where if you make a mistake or like you say something stupid because of like maybe your your type of humor you grew up on that that person shouldn't be able to rectify their mistake and we can't now embrace them back into like quote unquote normal society and be like hey man you majorly fucked up but it's nice to see that you

you took a step back recognize that you were in a shitty place and said and did some shitty fucking things. And, I mean, let's take the prime example right now and the guy who's pretty much one of the whistleblowers on like the fraction of what's happening in hockey, Carcillo. That's a guy who, I mean, I don't know if he'll tell you everything because I'm not going to do it because I do think there are some good things that Carsey's doing do I think he's being a fucking idiot about some of it too yeah considering that that I'll

tell you what man I wish he had the balls to come out and tell you everything because you might fucking be like oh shit that's our that's our god think that – Well, the other day, he had a discussion or a quick little back and forth with Kelly Chase on Twitter, and I'm going to read it, okay? I'm going to read how this went just because it's interesting in terms of this whole argument. Let me just pull it up. Listen, I understand Chase is a little old school, but there's not like a nicer like charity work like constantly

doing things for the community like i mean we talked we joked last episode about the alumni situation but like dude he fucking he's a a legit voice of hockey but just because he might have different views than carcillo doesn't make him a bad fucking person well so he he originally wrote he goes thought long and hard about this. I've always been up. This is Kelly chase. I've always been a person who stuck up for his friends. I'm not sure how anyone else views the Sutters either coaching or as players,

but I know they've done a tremendous amount for a lot of people are a huge reason why many have had success. And Carso wrote back, appreciate the share Kelly, glad your experience were experiences were positive with all due respect. This isn't about the apparent good. The Sutters have done. This is about their, this isn't about the apparent good the Sutter's have done. This is about their history of abuse, cover-ups,

and about the victims who are willing to stand up to them. So I had read that, and before I even read his response, I'm like, well, they're his friends, so why aren't you going to stick up for a friend? And also, you know different parts that not everyone knows about certain situations and chase wrote back listen kid you have your views and your opinions and you're putting them out there that's fine you're not convincing me that these are bad people there's an overwhelming amount of our colleagues that don't agree with you and are sitting on their hands and that's a real shame so he's saying that with cars trying to make it sound like every part of hockey

and all of what we grew up with and what has happened in the past is all so bad and everyone needs to be outed. Like I said before, a lot of the things that many people out there that don't play the game would consider abuse, dude, that was coaches being hard on us. Okay, so you mentioned the Sutter. I talked to a guy who played for – I talked to someone. Most of you mentioned the Sutter I talked to a guy who played for I talked to someone some most of you figure out who I talked to I'm not going to say a name

but I talked to a guy who played for the Sutter in Red Deer when he grew up and like he he just had the same thing that say it basically is chaser like he's just like dude like that guy made me that the reason I was able to handle the mental and physical grind of playing in the NHL for as long as I did and the reason why I fucking got up in the morning, I went and trained every day, is because I was held accountable in junior. Was he fucking hard on me?

Yes. Would some people have caved in that situation because it ain't all sunshines and rainbows, as I mentioned, the coaches that I had like that were my favorite because they molded to me and the guy who fucking gets on 14 flights in November and who works his fucking balls off just because that was instilled in me. That's all I know. And, and, and listen, did, did I have to fucking sit on the bus some days not feeling great about myself

with my shoulder struck over because I got my pee pee whacked? Yeah, big fucking deal. The life is very difficult. And there's some things that are going to come ahead as you get into and become an adult. And if you haven't experienced any type of difficulty and hardships that maybe you were put on your heels, you're going to fucking crumble. Most of you are. And that's why shit's gotten so fucking soft lately. You can't straight up just tell someone like, nah, dude, fuck you. You're wrong.

It's like, oh, what the fuck? Shut up. Well, I think it's funny that when parents try to shield their kids from that type of stuff and like the coach is yelling at my son, like you're kind of shielding them from the tough parts of life that you really need to deal with. Cause it ain't always easy. And when it's hard, you need to know how to respond.

So all these coaches that will get brought up and this guy was a prick. I mean, yeah, they were pricks sometimes. So then it comes down. Then it comes down to like, Oh, well,

like he used to like you know like like tap us on the shoulders hard like to get us going on the bench it's just like all right now now now everyone wants to say he was hitting the players it's all right jack jack parker jack parker is a legendary hockey coach at bu one of the best college hockey college hockey coaches of all time he must have coached fucking 150 nhl players legend in the college hockey coaches of all time. He must have coached fucking 150 NHL players. Legend in the college hockey game. Dude, he grabbed me by the face mask, pulled me in and was screaming in my face my freshman year.

You know, he gave me the hallway treatment because I'll be used old rank. You could rip you right down into the hallway where you'd be off TV cameras. And he was screaming at me in my face, holding my cage. Wake the fuck up. What are you doing? And you know what? I went out and played a really solid game after it. It was brutal and it was embarrassing, but it woke me up

and I'm not saying that that's correct, but that's how it was. And I never for a minute would judge or not love Jack Parker. That's what I'll say. That's what I'll say. That's what I'm saying.

And like, people are going to say like, Oh my God, like he should never be, he should be out of this hall of fame and he should never coach again. It's just like, I don't know, man. Sorry.

That one kid like pooped his diaper when that happened. And that guy's a little bit old school. Like, so I won't say what, what do we got to give the guy now? Does he want a big settlement? I won't say a name. Should he ruin Jack Parker's life guy now? Does he want a big settlement? I won't say a name. Should he ruin Jack Parker's life because he helped so many others

and your kid fucking pooped his pants when he yelled at him? Parker's out on a boat sailing. This dude sails more than I play golf. It's incredible. I had a buddy. I did not play with this guy, but it's a known fact that a coach, he came in, wasn't playing well, a bunch of meetings. The coach brought him in after a game, cleared the desk,

and said, you want to go, me? Let's fucking go. This is after they'd gone back and forth a little bit. Legit challenge him. Let's square off and go right there. The player didn't do it. What's the player going to do? Is that going to fight him?

Maybe some guys would, but this guy was smart enough to know that will put me in a bad position with this organization. And he walked out of the room. Dude, he laughs his balls off about it now. I mean, how do you not laugh at that later on? The coach calling you out to fight? Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, it's mental warfare. But in the end, are you really going to struggle the rest of your life because that happened to you? I would hope not. I really would. The ironic thing, enough before we move on to other uh nhl news is the fact that we're talking about uh he said she said with peters and aloo well then it turns into a he said he said she said with carmanos and ron francis now working for the seattle team so

it's turned into one of those guys is lying because the story comes out and it says that Peter Carmanos said he was never told about any abuse. Peter's kicking anyone in terms of the Michael Jordan tweet and all that news. Well, Francis then came out and said, I told him. I told him about what happened and we addressed it and never happened again. But I did let Carmanos know. So who's telling the truth there now? You really have no idea. Yeah, it's exactly. I was now? You really have no idea. Yeah, exactly.

I was going to bring that up as well. Again, this ripple effect I keep talking about, it's just one thing leads to another. Yeah, Carmanos, like you just said, no one told me. Ron Francis came out and said, I briefed ownership. So someone's bullshitting somebody, and you've got to think the Seattle ownership is probably going to want to know what really happened, too.

They just hired him to be their GM, and, you know, they're probably going to, like, go to him, too, and ask him what happened. But either way, Peters is done. Jeff Wood is named as the interim head coach, and I think we're all going to move along. I think Ron Francis is probably going to be all set in Seattle when all is said and done. But, yeah, he did catch a little bit of shrapnel at the end of the day.

But go ahead biz well as i say it goes without saying though there's a fucking fine line and don't think that us going into that conversation about coaches being hard thinks that i i'm okay with the n-bomb that that peter's used i'm not okay with the fact that he fucking punched the player in the head that's maybe taking a little too far um i i would i would assume i don't know if it's been talked about did peters like go up to him after and say dude i fucking my wires crossed that was stupid or was that or was it a case where like management had to be like hey like so apparently we heard you're like fucking punching and kicking players like there's a huge difference that this

guy's realizing when he's fucking up or when he's not. And if he's not, like I said, man, this guy's got some fucking work to do or he could just stay the grumpy old fucking racist dude until the end of time and count his money. I was more just because I'm glad you said that. Some of the stuff is different level. I was more bringing up

because Kelly Chase mentioned some guys are sitting on their hands, so it's nice. We have a form where people at least are going to hear some former players saying some examples of what you think of abuse isn't the end of the world. That's all I meant by that. And we're also talking about the online world where there's just like – so this is like 3% of the community. Oh, I know.

They just want to constantly rip on hockey regarding anything. It's just like their platform to come get all their fucking stress out where all they want to do is fucking rag on people and to see people get taken down in any type of position higher than them if it's not being ran the way that they think it's being ran. So it's another thing as far as sitting on their hands as guys don't even want to engage with it because that side of it is so fucking ridiculous and painful

they don't even want to bother. It's the same people that knowing Peters was going to get fired and he probably will never coach in the NHL again now making it an issue because it didn't happen as fast as they wanted it to. They're legit fucking morons. And if there are a few of you that do that shit and listen to this podcast you people are the fucking worst the fucking worst hey imagine i'd imagine not a lot because they're the type of are trying to shut this podcast down imagine

stall being asked about this and i'm assuming with when he was he probably said uh no comment if he did answer like he says one little thing that sounds incorrect, all of a sudden he's buried. Like why would guys that are currently playing ever talk about it? All right, time to move on. Time to move on to more NHL news. Absolutely. And with all this NHL news breaking like crazy,

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I got my watch. It's good because I can't read a digital clock, so I need all the help I can get. But like Witt said, let's talk about some good hockey stuff. New Jersey General Manager Ray Shiro, per P.O. LeBrun, is listening to offers on Taylor Hall. This shouldn't really be much of a surprise. The Devils, I believe, second to last in the NHL standings right now. Of course, Halsey is an unrestricted free agent this summer. You've got to imagine he's going to get dealt at some point.

What's your take on this, brother? Yeah, it makes total sense for them to kind of start doing this earlier because when you're looking at a return, the longer the team's going to get to have him throughout the regular season, the more you're going to be able to get back. So you always wonder when people do have big-time UFAs that they're going to lose at to get back. So you always wonder when people do have big time UFAs that they're going to lose at the end of the season.

It's like the day of the trade deadline is the, probably the worst deal you're going to get. Ideally you do it the entire season before at the draft. I have no idea if that was discussed. I'm guessing it wasn't because of the changes New Jersey made and the guys they brought in to think that they could have a way better season. Hasn't turned out that way. So now you're thinking, all right, Hall's given us indication.

I'm not saying he has or hasn't, but as we've asked him, are you any interest in resigning, he's kind of said no. If that is the case, well, we can't trust he's going to be resigning here because if he really wanted to be here, he'd probably be willing to do this now to save the headache, but instead he has every right to go test the UFA market for the first time. And if you hear about a trade that goes down, it will include much bigger, not bigger. There'll be stuff in the deal that if he resigns with the team that they trade him to, they'll

get even more. So there'll be some incentives for that team to try to resign him or maybe not because they'll lose more in the trade. But listen, why would this kid stay there right now devil's fans you can hate me but what he's in the prime of his career he's he's been on one good team basically in so far his nhl career he's had an mvp season he should deserve the right to not only play where he wants to but get paid pretty much what he wants to so i think you'll see him out and the sooner is the more likely to me,

especially if they continue to lose. I think it'll be a good move for both parties. Cause then the assets that New Jersey will get in return is going to, you know, if they're able to, to draft well and, and use them to, to gain more guys.

I mean, their core group is fairly young. Yeah. Hughes and he shared your top players up front. Yeah. So they got, they a good, solid team moving forward. So I like the move. And Hallsville will get to go play where he wants. I'm just curious to know what the ask will be.

My assumption would be a first-rounder. Depending on how good of a prospect, and I'm assuming for Hall, they're going to want somebody who might be ready to jump in now. Like a bubble guy who they're like, if this guy takes another jump in his game, this guy's going to be a solid NHLer. And then maybe even a later round draft pick, like a fourth round. So if I'm a team, though, go get him now. So you get the majority of the season with this guy.

Let him get used to playing with the guys on your team. I've heard some – have you guys heard any rumors about where he might be going? Well, I was reading a couple things just on Twitter and then started thinking about him on Colorado. Oh, yeah. I had Colorado Saturday night, Chicago, Moneyline, Puckline. They went down 1-0.

They were up 3-1 40 seconds later, it felt like. Do they still have that Ottawa first rounder? Is that for next year's draft? Because remember they ended up getting it in the Ducey trade where it wasn't lottery protected. I'm not like Bob McKenzie. I can't balance the drafts and these prospects coming up. I couldn't tell you.

That was this past season. Oh, well, that's okay because I was going to say that maybe they do have one in there to give away. But, I mean, oh, my God, that would be fun to see him on Colorado. Now they have to do it because we said it, right? They'd be selfish not to. I've been here in Buffalo, too. In Denver.

I've been here in Buffalo, but I can't imagine. You've got to think that if the deal, but a team's not going to give up like a ton, a ton of things when they don't know if he's going to be resigning there. So maybe that's where we're saying like two first round picks are thrown in. If he resigns, it's just hard to, to, to pay this hall that the devils are going to want no pun intended. And then also like, like no we might lose him in six months so we'll see we should just keep starting rumors about where he's getting traded

and he doesn't have any protection as far as no trade clause so they could really send them any anywhere they want obviously he'll end up with a contender and he dude halsey he's still only 28 years old just turned 28 and this is the last year of that seven-year, $42 million daily sign with Edmonton way back in 2012. So I would say he's probably going to be the biggest name on the deadline for sure. Moving along, Columbus defenseman and non-visitor to the Spitting Chickens podcast, Zach Wawrinski was hurt in Saturday's game in Brooklyn versus the Islanders. He had a net front collision with Anders Lee and he skated away in some distress.

It looked like he might have been favoring his left shoulder where he did have surgery a couple of years ago. No updated news as of this morning. But obviously, you know, we have fun goofing around with him. But obviously, it's a guy you want to see in the lineup. He's a great player to watch. So hopefully, he'll be fine. so hopefully he'll be fine. Biz, Phil the Thrill Kessel became just the seventh player in NHL history to skate in 800 or more consecutive games.

Were you able to talk to him about this at all? I know you covered them all. I don't really go down to the locker room, man. I let the guys be during the season. I keep my separation. Phil's been good since he got to the desert. They are getting quality scoring chances. Whenever he's on a line, they have like a couple tic-tac-toe plays every night

where they have point-playing chances. The puck is not getting – I find it's way in the net right now for a few of our top guys. Like analytically, man, and eye tests, I'm like, holy shit, man. They're getting quality fucking looks. And I'm used to a C coyotes team who, you know, because we didn't really have the assets. It was, I wouldn't say boring hockey, but it was defensive hockey.

You know, you're going to try to win a game two, one or three, two, you know? And, and, and now we're fucking, we're fuck. We have games where we're just buzzing out there. Phil's only got four goals right now. So that's just, you know, hopefully, hopefully he can get a chicklets bump here by me mentioning him, and the puck could start finding its way in the net because we're going to need it, man.

Things don't get any easier. Now we're at the top. We've got people nipping at our heels. We've got haters, baby. Hey, so I'm looking. He's played 28 games, so math guy 82. That would be 54 games left, and he's got four. What do you think his over-under is that he gets this year?

I mean, we need 25 out of him to make playoffs. 54 games. So he's got to be – He could easily get 20 in the next 54. Sign me up. Sign me up. Sign me up. All right, so you want to do a bet? Oh, I mean, I hope that he gets the over.

So I'm going to bet the over. I'll say 25. 19 and a half I'll give you as a number, and we'll bet on that. We'll figure out the – Well, no, I'm not because I'm not saying that on the podcast, and all of a sudden I'm making inside bets with guys on the coyotes come on man oh yeah that guy from the nfl just got suspended for i think a year i think he was bad on his team to win at least dude i i guarantee what happened based on pure speculation he probably stiffed his bookie and

like that's how it got out i'm just guessing i don't know have any inside info but he was probably he probably big time somebody because how else would they find out you know whoever he probably stiff someone they probably made it known and said oh fuck you you don't want to pay me okay well payback's a bitch i get out my my own fucking theory on it but i'll say this still i i watched shane ose they played the coyotes on saturday and um and they looked good man they've won 11 of their last 13 they were really struggling off the hop i don't know how many Jose, they played the Coyotes on Saturday. And they looked good, man. They've won 11 of their last 13. They were really struggling off the hop.

I don't know how many people remember that. And they started out with the Kane suspension. I think he got, what, three games for abusive official. They lost Pavelski. So they had some uncertainty there. But their big three looked good. Vlasic looked good. Burns looked good. Carlson made some plays. He really he's really you know coming into his own um you know that's a lot of pressure

all of a sudden you get 11 million but i think he's got like 22 or 23 points now um couture had two last night fuck that guy too he's a mutant but uh look out for that team man they didn't have a great start but they they but they got a good fucking squad. Yeah, 8-2 in their last 10. So far, man, 2019-2020 has been the year of the comeback. This one is courtesy of Emily Kaplan at ESPN. She's a great reporter. The New York Rangers became the fifth team to come back from a four-goal deficit already this season.

That tied the NHL record for most comebacks in the season of that variety, and it all happened before the calendar went to December. That's absolutely insane. I mean, fucking, what did I just say? Five times. Five times the team has come back from being down four goals. One team, Florida, did it twice. So if you need any more incentive for live betting wit,

fucking this is the year to jump on it, huh? I know. I actually got 10 minutes left last night. Tampa was down 3-1 at home to Carolina, and I got them at plus 880 to win the game, and they made it 3-2. And then I was watching there. The net pulled a couple chances.

They ended up having kind of a scrum at the end. Interesting comments after Stamkos was pissed off. He said, enough's enough in this locker room. It was just so inconsistent. He goes, I got to figure out a way to score. I'm personally very frustrated. So weird times in Tampa. Biz has said he likes this for the good teams,

but at some point it needs to start ending. But still, I almost had to, at least to get me to overtime with plus 800 or 880, whatever I said, that would have been sick. But I don't give a fuck if you win every game the first half of the season. I think it's all timing. No, I know what I'm saying. If you continue 500 hockey and then it's like January 1st, at some point you need to start putting in streaks of wins together

to really cement your place in the playoffs. Sure. Fair enough. Yeah, I jumped on the bees when they were down 2-1 versus the Rangers the other day. That was a fucking nice thing. I had them at 2-0. Yeah, that was nice. That was very nice. Actually, well, it didn't end up winning, but when Carolina was down to the Rangers, I think 2-0 or 3-0, I

jumped on them. It was plus 1,100, man. I mean, it didn't end up winning, but that's a fucking nice price but hey what all these nail biters going on boys you need to be comfortable when you're watching the game and that means you need to be wearing your mugsy jeans and right now the guys at mugsy are extending their black friday deal to all the stoolies just for this week head to mugsy.com and use the code spit for 25 off when you order two or more pairs. Everybody knows about Muggsy jeans so far. They're the most comfortable men's jeans ever made. They're the only jeans we wear because they are

comfortable and they're specifically designed for guys with bigger asses and bigger legs. Talking probably more about business with them myself. Muggsy was started by a stoolie who was tired of having his balls choked out in jeans. His goal was simple, reinvent men's jeans to look good and feel outrageously comfortable. He spent five years working with industry experts and athletes, like former NHL player and Hobie Baker winner Blake Jeffron, to perfect the fit and feel of his jeans. The magic is in Muggsy's proprietary denim,

which is made from a bunch of high-tech materials that make these jeans mind-blowingly soft and flexible. When I say flexible, I mean these jeans are so stretchy, you could hit the squat rack in them, no problem. They're so comfortable, they make basic movements like sitting, bending, and nailing feel like a dream. Even if you're on the workbench, Biz, they're fucking pretty good too. Dick through the zip hole? Just keep them on? Porn style? If that's your style, and hey no exaggeration you'll want to sleep in these jeans although this will definitely be naked even better Muggsy's come in

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pairs trust us you don't want to miss out on this black friday deal so head to mugsy.com today and use the code spit for 25% off. Okay, so going back to the squat thing, we're doing it. Now, do you think you can squat more than Grinnell? Grinnell, you can't be squatting much. No, I'd say

I could easily squat more than RA. Now we have to do it. Yeah, I'll gladly do this. I'll do this challenge. Wait, front or back? Look at that fucking Conan rally over here. Front, back'll gladly do this. I'll do this challenge. Wait, wait, front or back? Look at that fucking Conan Grelly over here. Front, back, squat, I think I could easily do it.

Okay, maybe Grenelli's one of those small guys who packs a good punch. He's never done a squat in his life. If he's never done a squat in his life, I mean. We should do a powerlifting contest. They have to do a deathlift, a bench, and a squat, and a combined weight wins it. All right, we're done. We can stop talking about that, but we're fucking doing it.

And let's do it in Dallas at the Winter Classic. In Muggsy jeans. But they have to pay for the content. Biz, do you see? I tweeted out one of my old prom pictures, and someone's like, when's the last time you lifted? And I fucking retweeted the picture of me with a cup over my head. I was like, 2011.

Yeah, that was a bossy reply. That's a great response. That might be the perfect time. You're living your best life. That might be the perfect time to go to Chris Chelios. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Let's do it.

Without further ado, the Greek God himself, Chris Chelios. Wow. This is a big one. This is a big one, guys. And I'm going to just start off by telling you, this guy was a five-time first-team NHL All-Star. He won three Norris trophies. He played 1,651 NHL games.

I said it right, 1,651, fifth all-time and the most by a defenseman. Tied with Gordie Howe, ever heard of him? For most NHL seasons, played with 26. Tied with Gordie Howe. Ever heard of him? For most NHL seasons, played with 26. He represented Team USA 11 times, including winning the 1996 World Cup of Hockey. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2013.

And most importantly, he's a three-time Stanley Cup champion. This is our first of a seven-part interview because his career was 93 years long. Chris Chelios, thanks for joining us. Yeah, you bet, you guys. I want to congratulate you guys, too. I hesitated, I'll be quite honest, to go on your show just because kind of like a Howard Stern type thing, you know, when you guys get in the studio, there's no telling what's going to happen. But congrats.

You made an impact, especially on the younger generation with, you know, the social media thing. But congrats. You guys have done a heck of a job and finally got enough nerve to jump on your show here and talk with you. Chris, I mean, those Norris trophies, you know, they look nice, but nothing stands out like that 2001-2002 Bud Light Plus Minus Award that you ended up winning.

Yeah, I mean, that was a heck of a year. That team, at my age, yeah, it was pretty incredible to play with Littstrom, obviously, and then finish up that year as a runner-up to him for Norris Trophy. But, yeah, again, my game changed, and I was on a great team, and I didn't have to carry the load anymore. To me, it was pretty easy to play D, to sit back and watch everybody score. So, like I said, the timing was perfect when I got traded

to go to that team and the vets and the cast of Hall of Famers that were on it. It was incredible that year. And I also got to congratulate you. We're recording this on Friday, November 29th. On this day in 2003, Chris Celio scored his 900th career point, becoming

the 11th defenseman in NHL history to reach that milestone, and that was at the age of 41 years old. So you were getting some shit done as you started getting older too. How the fuck did your body keep up, considering what we've heard about your antics off the ice? Well, they say work hard, play hard. So I definitely, that was just the way it was for everyone. You know, the fitness thing, I think I was ahead of the code.

But, again, to be on a team and just put it in crews for, like, the last, I'd say, eight years, it was easy. It really was just to play D and be a role player, just kill penalties with Nick. And, again, like you said said it was second unit on the PP when Scottie was there playing with Steve Duchesne so like I said I was just in a great

spot and no pressure and the team was winning and I was able to keep doing my thing for as long as I did I feel like anyone in the NHL and probably a lot of fans out there know Chris Chelios, the guy, the animal, would ride the bike in the sauna.

When did that begin? This is before practice, sweated out, but that's like I've never heard of anyone doing that besides a college wrestler looking to lose 20 pounds. Right. Well, honestly, that's exactly it. The nail on the head. There was a football coach at Madison when I was was there uh benny mcclain and unfortunately we you know we watched him do it a couple times being daily suitor and he wore this

rubber suit like the wrestler did and he was riding the bike and unfortunately penny actually died on the bike in the sauna at madison but that's how i got the idea and all we thought was okay don't wear the rubber suit so that's where it started and uh you know i've been doing it ever since then it's just a way to get out the beer and all the toxics and all that stuff in your body just an easy way to sweat it out i got addicted to it so jolly is it true that you had coppages actually cut a hole in the sauna so you can watch tv while you were riding a bike in the sauna i did i designed one in chicago and when i got traded, you know, Scotty Bowman came in one morning.

I always used to be the first one at the rink, and I brought a carpenter with me, a buddy of mine, and I just decided to get rid of the steamer and blow a hole in the wall with a sledgehammer and frame it in. And Scotty walked in and said, what the F are you doing? And I go, well, it's nicer with a sauna. No one uses a steamer. And he goes, I like it.

So that was the beginning of that, yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So, Luke, we like to start early in your career. I'm sure you had a shitload of offers when you were a kid. What made you settle on Wisconsin? You know, I was in Boots, Saskatchewan. That's where I played two years a junior, and that's where I got my scholarship.

And the first place I picked was North Dakota because it was so close to Moose Jaw, and a guy on my team, Jim Archibald, had a little bit of a stint in the NHL. We just both decided we were going to go to North Dakota, and then at the last minute, they signed James Patrick from PA, and then obviously had a good NHL career. But I wanted to beat James so bad because he had played in Prince Albert that, you know, Gino Gasparini literally tore up my letter of commitment and I went to Wisconsin. That was my second choice just so I could play against Patrick and eventually beat him for the NCAAs.

And it was close to Chicago, Wisconsin. I'd heard it was a great school, a great party school, obviously, probably second to none. And it was just a good fit for me. Well, Chelly, it's funny. You mentioned Grant Sandbrook, who we've brought up before in this podcast, almost like the hockey whisperer with Maine. And you mentioned you brought him up in your Hall of Fame speech.

How much did he matter to you, and what did he do to help your career and improve at a young age? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he did, but when I was at Moose Childs, I was playing defense, so I was really just a forward playing defense. And basically, I get the puck and go as far and long as I could with it. And then when I got to Wisconsin, like you said, he is like the horse whisperer. I learned how to play D from Grant and only Grant.

And then it carried over a little bit to Jacques Lemaire, who was probably one of my favorite coaches and best Grant. And then it carried over a little bit to Jacques Lemaire, who was probably one of my favorite coaches and best teachers. But Grant, like you said, what he did for Maine after he left Wisconsin, and then he actually helped the kid in Denver who's coaching Dallas now onto a championship, and even in junior where he came from. Grant was always watching videos. So I've never met a guy or a coach as smart as him who could make adjustments and then decide he wants to be a goalie coach and coach some of the best goalies

in college and turn them into NHL goalies. So he really was an amazing guy and still is, and I still keep in touch with him. Well, after two years at Wisconsin, you spend the whole year, and this is back when you'd kind of leave school and play an entire year before the Olympics with the USA team. And we interviewed Edzo. He was a part of that team, huh? What was that year like, just traveling around exhibition games before the Olympics?

Yeah, I mean, it was a tough act to follow just because of what the 80 team did, you know, the miracle on ice. Just a bit. You guys were fucked. We were the nightmare on ice when it came down to the Olympics in San Diego. But, you know, right up to that point, you know, playing those 60 exhibition games, you know, playing a few NHL teams, playing some minor league teams. We stayed, you know, at the greatest hotels, the accommodations.

They set us up in a diner in Minnesota with beautiful apartments and free cars. So the year itself leading up to the Olympics was amazing. Eddie was part of that diaper line with LaFontaine and Jensen, so the three youngest guys that maybe ever played in the Olympics. And we had high expectations, obviously. We spanked Canada 8-0 in Milwaukee two weeks before the Olympics, but that was a kiss of death because they sure got even with us. Chris, I was going to ask you about getting that experience

and how much easier it made you to transition into the NHL because at the end of that year after the Olympics, you ended up getting your first taste of NHL experience with the Canadians, correct? Yeah, yeah, and it was. Like just playing on the big ice, skating improved, skills improved. We had that Coach Lou Vero who kind of, you know, patterned our game after the Russians, a skilled game. So, you know, like I said, playing the 60 games,

getting the experience playing against NHL teams, American League teams, and then, of course, playing college teams throughout the year and some tournaments. I could honestly say, you Olympics, I don't think I was ready to make that jump to the NHL. That's why I didn't go out of college. I decided to play the two years of college to get that experience I needed and develop. That Olympics was just the icing on the cake to get me ready and prepare myself for the NHL. Charlie, you broke in with the Habs of the 83-84 season there were still some

legendary names on that team from the 70s squads LaFleur, Ganey, Shutt, Robinson how was your relationship with all those Hall of Famers and particularly Larry Robinson as a fellow defenseman? Unreal I always said like to be able to break into a team with those types of players was like getting a Harvard degree. All I did was listen. I never spoke. I shut my mouth. And, you know, back then, that's how rookies should be. But how could you question, you know, the guys that you mentioned, success and the Cups they'd won, just sitting in those brasseries, listening to the stories. And even the guys prior to them, Cornway and Henry Richard.

Like I said, it was a great learning tool for me and one of the best leaders in Bob Ganey. Larry was a bit of a clown. Larry Robinson, he had his highs and lows. Craig Ludwig actually kept him in line telling him to shut the F up every once in a while when he'd get burned. He'd blame it on everybody else, Larry. So it was kind of comical, but what a great guy

and what a great teammate he was, Larry. Did people actually call him Big Bird to his face, or was that just a media thing? Oh, yeah. No, no, they called it his face. Yeah, he loved it. Like I said, he had a great sense of humor, Larry. He was almost, you know, he acted like a kid right until the end,

and I think that's why he didn't make a very good captain. He just, like I said, he would get really upset sometimes or, you know, be really – I remember one time he put a Q-tip in his ear while he was walking around joking with Q-tips, and he accidentally poked the thing through his eardrum and couldn't play. He did a bunch of goofy stuff. You'd never think Larry was like that but he was great I got to ask you about just I mean you're going from Wisconsin all of a sudden you're playing for the

Habs and you have all these legends on your team like what was the culture shock like was it hard to maybe you know pull the reins back on the on the extracurriculars off the ice of the party scene and maybe the nightclubs yeah well it no not at at all. But like I said, after Olympics, I think I played 13 games. And my roommates were Alfie Turcotte, who pretty much drank himself out of the league, and Kent Carlson. So I was not aware whatsoever about the tradition, the history. I'd never been to Montreal, never got to watch any games growing up in Chicago. I knew the names because, you know, the Canadians in the 70s played against the Hawks in the

finals. So I obviously knew those names, Savard, LaPointe. But I had no idea what I was into with that city. And my first, you know, stint of 13 games and a good playoff run, you know, we finished fourth place, barely made the playoffs, but had a great run into the semifinals and lost to the Islanders that year that they lost to Edmonton the first year. But the

next year, we had eight rookies, and it was just, let the party begin. And again, we went out, that group of guys like Lemieux, Richer, McPhee, of course, it was there later, Mike Keane, butPhee, you know, Corson was there later, Mike Keane, but it was just we were winning,

and there was no better city to win in. And it didn't matter. As long as we won, no one said anything. When we started losing, that's when, you know, all the stories come out about the drinking and the carrying on. And, you know, deservedly so, but that's just the way it was. Did you get it a little bit harder because you were an American as far as the press if things weren't going well?

You know, not so much American but English. You know, Mike Keane took a beating. Kirk Muller took a beating. You know, they were trying to separate from Canada at the time, so it's obviously an issue. But for sure the French press, you know, me and Carbino were best friends. We were both the co-captains and he'd been suspended for you know missing you know missing curfew he had a dui uh and they never

said anything about him but in the meantime every time there's anything about me rumors like i was the one to just take a beating in the press so there was for sure there was an issue and those guys will tell you that it's just you know being a captain you know the honor thing or you know yeah you have to grow up and i wasn't ready like i wasn't ready to take on that role and i failed miserably for sure because i just you know that wasn't my personality at the time you mentioned alfie turcotte i got an amazing picture of that beauty at the draft when his son was a stallion got picked fifth overall he had his finger four inches up his nose, picking away. It's awesome.

But, no, looking at the Montreal team, like, you ripped it up your first full year, your rookie year, made the all-rookie team. Then the second year, did you get injured? Because you ended up winning the cup. But what happened in the regular season? Yeah, I blew my knee out early. I think I missed almost 40 games, came back, you know, and basically played a sparingly role throughout the playoffs because of it.

But, again, you know, it was lucky that I got back in time. I'm not sure how many games left. But, again, I played normally, you know, regular shift and power play in the playoffs there. And, like I said, then the rumor was they better get rid of me, not for the party and also, but they said my knee will never last. That was one of the things they kept saying. But I just got lucky and healed.

Jelly, you came in second in the call to voting to a guy named Mario Lemieux. You actually got five first-place votes, and a couple other Canadians got votes. Did you ever apologize to Mario for that? Or do you bust his balls about it? I always bust his balls. I mean, I took,

you know, the worst part of all that was before the ceremony or the awards banquet, someone gave me a letter telling me that I finished a close second. I was going, this is bullshit. You know what it did? I didn't, I would have loved to just lose to him right at the moment,

but I knew going into the thing that I had already lost. But that's not a bad guy to lose to. I think he had 100 points that year. I thought the only chance I would have had was because they finished in, you know, whatever, they didn't make the playoffs. And Montreal, we finished almost first in our division. And like you said, it was a great year. Not a bad runner-up, you know, spot.

In your first NHL playoff, you were second in score and first among D In your first NHL playoff, you were second in score and first among D. Your second NHL playoff, you were second in points. Were you kind of like, shit, this is easy, man? What is this thing? Yeah, I got unexpected. Like I said, my first 13 games, I had one point.

I played terribly, had no confidence. I was just throwing the puck off the boards of glass. I was stealing jerseys with Tom Curvers, thinking I was going to Sherbrooke any day out of the laundry room. So I got a great collection of LaFleur, Robinson, Ganey jerseys. That's the start of my collection with NHL. But I got one goal, the first game of the playoffs against Boston.

I scored the first goal of the playoffs, and all of a sudden I felt like, man, I could do anything. And everything just took off. And I had a great run in the, you know, 83, 84 playoffs. We upset a few teams. And then it just carried over into the next year, my rookie year. And I had Tom Curtis as my partner. And we, you know, we lit it up as, you know, as a good tandem. So it was great.

So one thing that we actually haven't mentioned, most people are aware, is that you played hard. partner and we you know we lit it up as you know as a good tandem so it was it was great so one thing that we actually haven't mentioned most people are aware is that you played hard you were known as somebody who'd do anything it took to win you'd play with a nasty edge was it always like that growing up i'm assuming it was no i like i said i played forward i was undersized i was a center so there's no need for that and it basically when when I went to Moose Jaw, you didn't know how to fight or you didn't know how to protect yourself. And that was just the Western League was, you know, ten times worse than when I played in Moose Jaw.

It was Tier 2. But that Western League, I played there for two weeks, and I had no chance of, you know, I was too dumb not to, you know, not fight. And, you know, when you get challenged, you had to, you know, answer the bell. And I just learned to survive at Moose Jaw. And then, you know, obviously college, nowhere near. But it did carry over into college in an intimidating way, just going after players.

And, you know, back then you could elbow a guy in the head. You could chop a guy in the side of the leg and not worry about getting suspended or fined. So that was just, you know, the 80s, the 70s, the 80s, and it carried over into the 90s too. Charlie, you played with Chris Nile, and in your first full year, 358 penalty minutes he had. What's it like playing with a guy in the old era

who's just fucking going at it every night like that? Could you see him maybe going through some shit mentally when he's fucking battling like that every night? Oh, yeah. I mean, I lived in the building with Chrissy. He was like my dad. You know, he babysitted me on the ice, off the ice. I don't know if that was good, off the ice for him to babysit me.

But, you know, honestly, like, it was just a comforting knowing that, you know, someone did come after me, a heavyweight. You know, Dale Hunter was my nemesis he terrified me I'd be the first to admit it he was like every time I see him it's like looking at the devil on the ice and he got me a few times but I mean Knucks would go after him every game or say something to him every game and you know not that it altered him all the time but he like I said I got guys like that made room and I have always said that. Proberts, the Domis, these guys made it a lot easier for me to play. I didn't have to deal with those guys during the game,

and so-called protectors. They played a big role, and certainly I'm looking forward to seeing him. I'm going to Montreal on Tuesday, and they're going to be honoring all the former captains, and I've been speaking. I'm looking forward to seeing them. He was a great teammate. So, Jelly, 1986, that was your first Stanley Cup.

You had a 20-year-old Patrick Waugh. He goes 15-5 with a ridiculous 1.93 goals against, a 9-2-3 save percentage. Those would be great numbers in today's playoffs. Was he cocky as hell during this run? What was he like during that whole thing? No, not at all. Like I talked about earlier, a rookie in Montreal,

when you have guys like Ganey and Robinson and that other group of vets we had that carry over from the 70s, they kept him in line. And Patrick, I think once he won that second cup, things changed. They started losing, but that veteran leadership things kind of changed. He was just a competitor, Patrick, and no way we win that, you know, that year in 86 without him. And then Claude Lemieux, what he did, you know, scored some

of the biggest goals, you know, of that playoffs also, hated by his own teammates, including, you know, he just, he was nuts from the get-go. But Patrick was quiet, you know, he was nuts from the get-go. But Patrick was quiet. You know, he did his thing, and eventually he became the leader that he did as a goaltender, to be honest with you, which doesn't really happen a whole lot. I want to ask you about Claude Lemieux. You kind of commented on it.

Why was he so hated by his teammates? He just robbed everybody the wrong way. What he was on the ice was what he was off the ice. He cheated cards on the bus. He started cheating cards. I remember the day we got out of a limo one day

and him and Shane Corson went at it on Sunset Boulevard. It was amazing. They only had a ball in the dressing room before a game against Philly because of card games. He rubbed it the wrong way.. It was amazing. Now he had a ball in the dressing room before a game against Philly because of card games. So he just – he rode in the wrong way. Claude was nuts. But as the years went on, you know, he became – you know, he settled down a little bit and became a better teammate.

And, you know, look what he did with Jersey. Look what he did with Colorado. You know, amazing career by Claude. But, boy, was he a pain in the ass. I mean, he started laying on the ice all the time, and there was one point where Pat Burns told the trainers not to go on the ice and just let him lay there, which I've never seen before. So that was – everybody on the bench was laughing.

And I'm sure Pat, he starts looking up and looking up, and all of a sudden he realizes that trainer's not coming out, so he had to get up and do the skate. That's embarrassing. Like a tail between his legs back to the bench. Nobody came to help. Right. You're the third member of that Stanley Cup team that we talked to.

We interviewed Johnny LeClair recently, Lyle Odeline. We've had to ask him about the celebration in Montreal just because of how crazy that city is for hockey. What do you remember or not remember of that week? Well, I guess it's been long enough. So I never drank in the playoffs, and that's the God's truth. Four days before the playoffs, I never would have a beer until the playoffs were over. That was just kind of my thing.

And so when we came to win the championship, I had no idea. They told us the parade's probably going to last about two hours. And I was in the car with curvers, and you're sitting on the top of the trunk in convertibles, and it's like a 75-degree day, beautiful, sunny day. And four hours later, I'm blacked out like no other. I remember the first half of that parade, bits and pieces. I couldn't walk on the stage when we got to the forum. I literally tried to get up and couldn't get out to the stage.

And I took a lot of shit, you know, from the press. You know, I'm not sure all about embarrassing myself and the team, the organization, but to be honest, in my defense, like, you know, we didn't have drinks in the car. People were handing us drinks out of the crowd, you know, on the street of St. Catharines. So I just start pounding whatever people handed me, and it hit me. That was it.

But, you know, again, no greater place. I was single, you know, and it was just no better place to win the cup, my first cup after my second year. And no regrets. I mean, it was what it was. It was a blast until I don't remember. Hi, Joe. I want to fast-forward up to the summer of 1990.

You get traded to your hometown in Chicago, blockbuster trade for Denny Savard. Were you shocked, happy, pissed off, all three, and what precipitated that trade? You know, again, it was just – it happened in Montreal. Someone's going to go when you lose out early in the class, whether it was a coach or players. And, you know, you hear the rumors. I'd heard the rumors for years, so you just kind of ignore them. To be honest with you, it would have been really disappointing

had I gone anywhere else because I really loved playing in Montreal. I was just starting to settle down. I got married, had my first kid, and I said, okay, I'm ready to accept this responsibility as a captain and mature a little bit and be what they wanted me to be. But, again, to go home, you know, I got over it really quick, to be honest with you. Things couldn't have gone better, you know, from day one.

You know, from the first game, I think I had a goal, a assist in the fight. So it was great to come home. And it worked out perfect for me and i moved my parents back and you know all the people i disappeared for all those years no one knew where i was until i surfaced with the olympic team so it was kind of cool to to be able to play in front of the hometown crowd my friends and my family jay i get pissed you stole a little of his thunder? What's that, Jerry? I know, we're best teammates. No, great friends, great teammate.

You know, Jerry will tell you, he's always been loud and, you know, full of himself, and that was him. He referred to himself in the third person all the time. That's what you've got to worry about a guy. But, you know, Jerry called himself Styles. Like, he was great. Styles. I remember that was on his Sy styles was on his curve pattern yeah and i just laugh at him like this kid but he like tell you when it came time for the game he showed up you know he was a fan

favorite in chicago still is a fan favorite um and i mean you guys know better as well as me he's a great kid so your first uh year in chic, you guys know better as well as me. He's a great kid. So your first year in Chicago, you guys lose in the first round. But the next year, I mean, what a run. You ran into one of the best teams in all time in Pittsburgh in the Cup Finals. Could you tell right when you got there, wow, this could be a special team the next couple years in Chicago? Yeah.

And like you said, that first year getting knocked out early by Minnesota was that we won the President's Cup. But you learn from your mistakes. And the reason why we lost that was because of our discipline, you know, all the penalties we took. And that was, you know, Keenan, that's how we coached. You know, we got away with it regular season, obviously, but it stung us in the plow.

So the next year, you know, another great year and came up against a team that was as hot as us. I think we had just won 11 straight. They were on their way to winning. You know, I think they broke the record for consecutive wins in the playoffs. And then my buddy Mario again, who probably, you know, cost me, you know, not my career here, but it would have been, you know, the best thing to win a cup in your hometown and be in that situation. But they were a great team.

Like you mentioned, Tawket, Mullen, you know, Jager, Francis, and, you know, Murphy on D. So it's just unfortunate we didn't put up a better fight. We lost four straight. What was Mike Keenan like as a coach there in Chicago? I mean, I know, you know, there's been some things coming out as far as head coaches are concerned and guys who were very difficult to play for, maybe some mind games in the mix. Was he that bad back then?

Yes. I'm not afraid to say, Mike, I've talked to him about it in recent years. The word that comes to mind is psychotic. You never knew what to expect in the rink. You know, he was good to me. He challenged me, and I was always brought up, just shut your mouth and do what you're told, and I did that with Keenan. But, I mean, I could tell you stories of players chasing him through the dressing room, you know, in between pairs,

throwing their equipment at him, trying to get at him to beat him up. And then another guy choking him and another guy kicking him in the nuts. The stories are endless with what Keenan did. And he did terrorize a lot of players. But in his defense, some of these guys that he did that to, when he got fired as a coach, he'd bring them to New York, he'd bring them to Vancouver, he'd bring them to St. Louis, players like Hudson, Larmer, Noonan, and the list goes on, Matt Mateau.

So he was just psychotic, that was the word. And Daryl Sutter followed in his footsteps, there was no difference in his coaching mentality. Never a dull moment, we had more fights and pre-game skates amongst each other than we did against the other team. It was a crazy few years with Keenan. And I think he realizes now, you know, he couldn't coach anymore in the league. No one would hire him.

And then he went to Europe and he won a championship there. First North American coach to win one there. But then he got fired, you know, within months the next year in Beijing. So I don't know what happened there. But, you know, it's not his coaching ability. It's his personality and the next year in Beijing. So I don't know what happened there, but it's not just coaching ability. It's his personality and the way he treated people. Had you ever had a big run-in with him yourself? Like is there any one crazy story, maybe clearing off his desk?

You know something I don't know? It's the airline intelligence. Actually, to hop in there, we tried to dig up information on you, Chelly, and every one of your friends, man, they keep everything in the vault. They love you too much. They love you. Wow, that's good. I guess, yeah, the one story that stands out, we play the Kings,

and the second and third shift into the game, I hit the puck out of the air and it was going in the net, and Larry Robinson comes across and takes a baseball swing at the puck and makes it out of the air, and it was going in the net. And Larry Robinson comes across and takes a baseball swing at the puck and makes it out of the air to save a goal. So we got back to the bench. Larry had his helmet, you know, kind of over his eyes and his chin strapped right over his mouth and was laughing at me. So I started laughing, you know, back.

Well, Keenan saw me laugh. I didn't know it at the time. He benched me the rest of the game, and people were mother-effing Keenan the whole game. Why aren't you putting him out there? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm just sitting there. Then he throws me out there with the last minute of the game to try and embarrass me.

So as we're going, you know, the game's over, I get as fast as I can. I get down those stairs at the old stadium. I go into his office, and I break everything possible that's laying on his desk and everything, and then stuck my stick into the ceiling so he knew it was me and you know then I got down Saturday you know give me come in coach wants to see you and that's really the only blowout I had with him uh and basically tell him you blew the game you embarrassed it wasn't me he tried to turn it on you and I just said you guys are hits and but that's it he didn't hold a grudge. It was over that day.

Sometimes you like having guys talk back to him, and that was really the only altercation that I ever had with him. Did it ever come to actual fisticuffs with a play between Keenan and a guy? Like I said, guys have grabbed him. I don't want to say their names because they probably don't want their names, but, yes, no one's ever punched him. I'll say it that way. Okay. As far as throwing equipment and hitting off his head and you know literally guy kicked him right in the nuts one time and got him really good so yes this happened oh should have his cup on now the blackhawks had a pretty quick decline after that that cup run in 92

and before the deadline in 99 the hawks traded to the rival red. What was that mental transition like going from the beloved hometown guy, now you're on a hated member of a then division enemy? It was horrible. The only thing that kind of saved me was I was being traded with Wendell Clark and Ulf Samuelsson, two guys that weren't really well liked on other teams either. So that kind of helped a little bit. We were living in the hotel together together trying to babysit each other and comfort each other from the trade but again in a great position with a great team

unfortunately for me it was a lot worse because the chicago detroit rivalry i said years before i'd never play for them um and it was just a matter for me just wanting to get out of chicago the way i was getting treated at the end. And you mentioned that decline we had. You know, we let guys like Eddie Belfort, J.R. go, and one after another. And there's ways, you know, it's always the right time for me to leave. It's just the way it was handled. I didn't like the way certain people handled it who are no longer with the organization. It just happened.

But, I mean, they were telling me that I should retire that year, and they put me up in the front office, and I said, you know, I feel like I could still play. And obviously, you know, going to Detroit and being on such a great team, I lasted another 10 years and had some great years in between. Now, when you first get to Detroit, Scotty Baum was your first coach there, correct? Yes. What was that like playing for this sort of master tactician,

one of the best guys ever to coach the game? I think by the time I got to him, and I've heard all the horror stories from Larry Robinson and those past Canadians about Scottie, how he was such a prick to them and, you know, all these antics somewhat Keenan-like. It's just by the time I got there, he had sarcastic remarks towards me, but I just kind of laughed. As far as on the ice, what he did, he cleaned up my act as far as being

a disciplined player. He basically just walked in the room and never would single you out and call your name, but he'd say, we don't need any more scrums after the whistle, and you knew who he was talking about. So that kind of fixed me from a discipline, because Detroit was such a disciplined team and such a great team.

I'm not a naff in scouting right off the hop, but with me, he was great. It was great playing for him for those two, three years, and it was a great experience. Charlie, speaking of those scrums, didn't you used to turn your blade around and go in and kind of get guys with the end of your blade while you grabbed them?

Whatever it took. Whatever it took because I was only 6'1", 188 pounds, and I got to be the first one. I just figured if I don't get that first round in at least, I'm going to get killed. So the ambushing and the, yeah, I mean, I remember choking Keith Kachuk almost to death. He was kicking his legs until he couldn't kick him anymore.

And he was almost crying in the penalty box his first year saying I could have killed him. I said, well, you know, don't go in scrums, Chucky, you know. So, yeah, that was bad. I got to be the first in, but you had to be. I mean, I wasn't a big guy, so I tried to get every advantage I could. No wonder Hunter wanted to kill you. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I wasn't a big guy, so I tried to get every advantage I could. No wonder Hunter wanted to kill you. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I brought it on myself.

But, you know, like I said, that first playoff year, guys were going after me. I hadn't, you know, I wasn't known as a dirty player. I wasn't, you know, but you had to. And then, like, you just, that was the way it was. And then I assumed that role. I was matched up against the other team's top players. And back in the day, they weren't tough. was and and then I assumed that role I was matched up against the other team's top players and back in the day they weren't tough you know some of them were like Cam Neely was a tough guy to play

against there's nothing I could do to him uh he kicked the snot out of me anytime but you know I just got that role of you know trying to intimidate the other team's top players and you know it worked you know now you can't do that because of the rules, but it sure worked back then. So in 2002, you mentioned you finished second in the Norris Trophy behind Lidstrom. You guys win the Stanley Cup. You're 40 years old at the time, I believe. Would you ever have imagined it was going to be seven more NHL seasons? Or at that time, could you have pictured it being over really quickly?

When did you realize you were going to just keep going? You know, I was making deals with Kenny Hollis just because they used me as a mentor for the Uri Fishers, the Brett Ledgers. I was content staying back and babysitting these guys and supporting them and trying to be their mentor. I thought I could have kept going. Obviously, Mike Babcock didn't, but he had different ideas. After all those years, I was ready at that point for any year to be my last year. I actually thought the year before we won that last cup,

not that I played a relevant role in the playoffs, but regular season, it was good. I was a part-time player, and I was content. I didn't have to move my family, which is probably one of the biggest reasons guys retire. They don't want to be away from their families and play that little limited role. Like I said, it took a year by year. Everything worked out great.

My sons were playing. I was able to catch a lot of their games. When it finally did come, I knew it was time. I just wanted to make sure that I had nothing left in the tank and did that little stint in Atlanta and played with the Wolves. But it was a great year and I had fun. Now after Bowman retired in 02, you had Dave Lewis

for a couple years. He lasted I think two seasons. Then you bring in Mike Babcock. I know that's a big subject we wanted to get to. What was that like going from a guy like Dave Lewis to Babcock and how was your initial relationship with Babcock? Yeah, initial was no good right from the guy like Dave Lewis to Babcock, and how was your initial relationship with Babcock? Yeah, initial was no good right from the start.

Dave Lewis, you know, he followed Scottie, tough shoes to follow. In his defense, he didn't change a thing. He was a great guy. He was a very good coach. We had a lot of injuries in the playoffs, and then they started saying that they was a little too soft. He was, he was too attached to the players and he was just a good guy, a lot like Larry Robinson. But, um, that's when they, they felt Kenny Allen felt they needed someone that was more

strict and tougher on the players. And that's where Babcock came in. So when they did hire him, I'm thinking to myself, God damn it. I know that name. I, you know, I wonder if it's that same guy that I played against in Moose Show, and then he was playing in Saskatoon, and then McGill. And sure as sure, it was Babs. And I'm going, oh, my God.

So our first meeting, he calls me in and says, hey, you remember me? We played against each other, and just purposely I said no. So, you know, just to hurt his feelings a little bit. Because I knew this was going south. You know, this meeting was going to go south. So, you know, we played a few exhibition games, and I happened to score three games in a row. And then we play the opener against Edmonton. And, you know, I get the game winner against Edmonton,

and he calls me in his office after the game on plus three, and he says, what the F do you think you're doing? I go are you talking about he goes you're not here to score goals you're here you know play defense and babysit Brett Lebda I said yeah but I've you know I've been plus all you know training camp and and he interrupted me right away he says if you don't like it you can go see Kenny Holland I'm sure he'll trade you and I went oh boy so that's when I became you know the mentor and you know that I didn, oh boy. So that's when I became the mentor and I didn't want to leave the team. I love playing in Detroit.

I figured I'd last here as long as I could and I survived about seven years by just shutting my mouth and doing what I'm told. What's come up here in Toronto, and I'm sure there's a lot more said than I've heard, Commodore leading the charge.

He didn't sugarcoat it or nothing. He went right for the heart. And, you know, it's amazing, you know, that this is all coming out of the players. But, you know, it's coming back to heart, Babcock, for, you know, not so much his coaching as the way he treated people. Did you feel he treated you different because you were an American? Was that a fact at all, do you think? No, I don't think it was because I was American.

We had Hrafalski, he was American. He treated Rafi good. What he did to Medano was incredibly disrespectful. What he did to just recently Spezza in Toronto. Those are the things that are so unnecessary. He tried to

healthy scratch me in the outdoor game in Wrigley Field against Chicago because he knew it was my hometown. Just things that were so unnecessary to show he's the boss, to show his general manager, he's the boss. That he's so such an unpowered thing, his ego. And that, that's a big part of his, his personality. But yeah, I, you know, like I said, I, I, but some of the things the stories of

what you know how he tried to get rid of me like it's just unnecessary and again you know like keenan like it eventually cost him that you know he couldn't get a job in the nhl again and you know as bad as he's taken and now and all these stories come on that might be the case with him not his coaching ability when you say he tried to scratch you, were you like no chance? Oh, well, trust me, I'll say now, Kenny Holland and Jim Mill for three days argued with him. So what Babs ended up doing was he suited up 7D for the first time ever, and first and last time he suited up 7D,

put Andres Lilley in the lineup and played me opening shift and then didn't play me another shift the rest of the game. That was his way of, you know, showing Kenny and, you know, Jim Mill that he's not going to be told what to do. Again. And, you know, it's funny, I'm sitting there second period. My two sons were about 40 feet, you know, sit on the boards and they're looking at me going, it's funny, I'm sitting there second to my two sons. We're about 40 feet, you know, sitting on the boards, and they're looking at me going, what's going on? And I look at them, and I tip my glass, like, you know, my cup to get me a beer.

So my two boys were handing me beers the whole game, and then McCrimmon tried to get me to go out there in the last minute to kill a penalty. I said, not a chance. So, you know, it was just stuff like that that was so unnecessary. Anybody boards me, I'm going to piss all over myself. Right. It's one of those.

And the best thing, not the best thing, but we were up 7-3 at the time, and McCrimmon didn't want nothing to do with it. I didn't know, you know, what was going on until about, you know, seven minutes, eight minutes into the period. And Beast just came down to me and said, look, he told me not to play you. And I'm like, okay, you okay. I'm not holding him responsible. But I knew stuff. I knew where it was coming from, obviously. It's just stupid things like that.

And now it's obviously coming back to haunt them. And we'll see if someone's crazy enough to hire him again. Do you think it goes back to that first comment of you not remembering playing against him? No. He had it out for me from the beginning. Regardless of that, I could tell just the way his mannerisms towards me and practices and stuff.

Again, he tried to get me to react. But like I said, I did everything he told me. It wasn't like we had a bad relationship. We were cordial to each other all the of thing he told me we didn't have uh it wasn't like we had a bad relationship you know he was you know we were cordial to each other all the time because like i said that's how i was raised as a you know as a kid you know just whatever your boss says you do but um again he had it out for me right from the get-go regardless of that meeting well i mean i would imagine you

probably saw some other nasty stuff like who's one of the guys that he just picked on the worst? And have you ever seen anyone, you know, get in a pretty tough place mentally because of it? Yeah, I figured that would be an easy one. It would be Johan Fransen. What he did to him at the end, you know, he was hurt at the time. I think it was a playoff. We lost to Nashville.

We got upset with Nashville. And some of the things he said to him on the bench, I don't know what he said to him behind closed doors one-on-one, but he blatantly, you know, verbally assaulted him during the game on the bench. And it got to the point where poor Johan, you know, no one really knowing that he was suffering with the concussion thing and the depression thing. He just broke down and had a nervous breakdown, not only on the bench, but after the game in one of the rooms in Nashville. So that was probably the worst thing I've ever seen.

What do the vets go in and say? Do they go, fuck you, Babcock? Because I know a guy like Lidstrom, I'm sure he's fairly non-controversial and doesn't want to ruffle feathers, and he's also got to worry about his job. But did a leadership group step up at that point? Not really. You know, no. You know, guys talked, obviously, amongst each other,

but when something did happen and there was some second-guessing and it got to Kenny Holland, Kenny Holland came down to the room and had this speech and supported Mike Babcock. It was a great speech, but that, you know, to tell everybody in the room, you know, if you don't like it, you could be traded, come up and see me be traded. So that was kind of the way that ended.

But, yeah, Nick Lindstrom wasn't going to do that. That wasn't his demeanor. Izy, we won that year. I think Izy played a year for him, maybe two. And it never got to that point there yet where he had really started to be that person that he turned into, Babcock, with the wings. So, again, it was just a really – the guys were so respectful, Datsy, Zetterberg. And, again, like so many others, they just shut their mouth and did what they were told. Well, it's crazy, too, to think that people bring up the Olympic golds

and the Cup in 08. Well, you could have put a giraffe behind the bench and that team would have won the Stanley Cup, right? I mean, the fact you were able to win it with a guy people hated playing for that much shows how talented the team was. Yeah, absolutely. I've said that before, and Canada's got the horses. They've been done.

Who talks about Pat Quinn being a great coach? But try winning that like he did in Salt Lake. They weren't playing well up to the, you know, medal rounds. But look at Pat Quinn and what that team accomplished in Salt Lake. You know, I wouldn't say we're the favorite CS team, but we were on a roll and we were playing amazing. And, you know, look what they did to us in that gold medal game. It was the greatest tournament I've ever been involved with with the greatest players. And, again know, look what they did to us in that gold medal game. It was the greatest tournament I've ever been involved

with with the greatest players. And, again, back to your point, you know, a lot of guys could Steve Eisenman, Kay Hall, put Babcock in that position to succeed, obviously, like any other coach would have. Back to that 08 season,

Shelly, you played 69 games that season, nice. Then you played 14 more in the playoffs, including five of six in the Western Conference Finals. But then the Cup comes around, and he health bombs you for the whole Stanley Cup Final. Did he ever give you an explanation how pissed off were you? How did that whole situation play out? You know, at that point, I'll never forget it.

We just beat Dallas in the semis. I don't know if we swept them, but we hadn't had a penalty on penalty killing. We hadn't had a goal scored against us throughout the series. And I was shaving after the game, and he just walked in and said, you're done. That's the last game you're playing. I didn't even get a chance to reply. And that was how it went.

So I'm thinking, okay, maybe a game, you know, we'll see how it goes. And, you know, the team started, we won, and you can't second guess it. But, yeah, he just caught me off guard like no other. And at that point, being that I'm not going to start, obviously I never did before either. I just wanted to win the cup. You know, I was still a big part of the team. Yeah, your ego, it hurt a little bit.

I didn't have an ego, but my feelings, I guess, if I had any, I was in shock. But we won it, and I didn't care. That's all I did. We won it, and I was able to celebrate with the guys and celebrate the city. It was amazing at that point in my career to win another cup. Did you feel that you should have been in the lineup then? I didn't disrespect any of the guys that were in the lineup. And then the following year, I got yanked, too, and we lost.

So obviously you always feel like you could help the team when you win. Had we not won that year, maybe I would say something. I don't know if I would have or not, but again, the year we did lose, like I said, I don't want to say there's a guy that's in the lineup that shouldn't have been, but I really feel that I could have helped and not getting the opportunity. That hurt a little bit, but again, that's life. I was just going to hop in and go back to Babcock.

Do you think that after everything that's transpired and how this is all becoming public, and I'm sure there's going to be more stories that maybe leak out, and I would imagine there's a massive laundry list of them do you think he he feels remorse knowing that it's gotten this bad after now being able to take a step back you know what that remains to be seen and that's a good point like if he would come out and apologize to some of these guys you know who knows you know people change before I don't know. But right now, the way things stand, I don't know. From what I hear, he's gone hunting and nothing's being said. You know how it is. Teams get desperate and they need somebody.

Who knows how desperate a team might be in the future to hire him and just put up with it and see if something changes. But right now, the way it sounds, and like I said, I haven't heard any of the remarks that's coming out of Canada, Toronto. I know people are saying stuff. It just remains to be seen. Usually the press conferences, it's sarcasm. If he doesn't like the question, a media guy asks him,

he attacks him, he intimidates him. But it only lasted so long in Toronto. You can't like the question, a media guy asks him. He attacks him. He intimidates him, but it only lasted so long in Toronto. You can't beat the media there. It just remains to be seen how he comes back after all this stuff. What his remarks are going to be from all this stuff that's coming out.

I made a comment last episode and I basically just said the Hockey Hall of Fame is a special place and it's for special people in the game of hockey. Do you think with this type of stuff that maybe people will reconsider maybe putting him in there eventually? Because, I mean, he does have a very nice resume

and you kind of alluded to it. He was a good coach. Yeah. You can't judge it like that. His record speaks for itself. You know, whether he's in great situations, it doesn't make a difference, not the numbers of the numbers. I don't know where he is on that list,

but for sure, I mean, if you were never to coach another game in the NHL, I don't know. You know, who knows? But it seems to me his numbers are right there for that, obviously. So, you know, it doesn't matter personally what the guy was like. You know, he's accomplished a lot.

And I don't think there's any question he's going to get in the Hall of Fame with what he's accomplished up to this point. Jelly, I want to go back to the Stanley Cup celebration in 08 in the locker room. Do you happen to remember a certain person getting thrown out of the locker room by one of the security staff and you kind of following him out to make sure this guy got thrown out of the room? Oh, God, who did I kick out? I was mad one year.

I kicked out people in 2002. Some floaters got in there, and they ended up stealing Dominic Kasich's watches out of his locker. Oh, all right. Yeah, that was all right. No, no, I was in 08. No, I don't know if you remember, but it was the 08 Cup, and I literally woke up that day.

I bought a ticket on Craigslist, flew to Pittsburgh, and I just walked in the locker room. Nobody stopped me. I drank out of the cup. I was just kind of hanging out. And this security guy, he looks like the guy who killed the wife in the fugitive. He comes up to me and he says, who are you with? And without missing a beat, I says, Chelly.

And I had never dropped Walt's name in 40 years of knowing him. And I said, I'm Walt's buddy from home. Unbeknownst to me, you and Walt had had a little tiff going on at the time. You just gave me an old shoulder shrug and he tossed me out. I walked around. I popped in another door and then he sees me again. He grabs my head like a basketball, palms me out, and he fucking

chucked me over the threshold. I turn around. I get in his back. I think you thought there was an actual incident. I wasn't sure if you were right, but I was that asshole. Well, good for you. That's awesome, though. Yeah, he drank out of the cup. Fuck, me and Biz didn't even sniff it, so what do we know? That's great.

The Stanley Cup crash, good for you. Hey, Chelly, before we let you go, your son's actually over playing with a good buddy of mine for K'unlun Red Star in the KHL. Brandon Yip is on the team. He interviewed with us before. So have you been over there? How's he liking it? Oh my God, I've loved the game.

He loves it. The experience has been unreal for him so far. Unfortunately, he's back in the lineup tomorrow after my seven-week show, but he says it's unreal. The accommodations, you know, obviously the money's better there than playing you know the kid paid his business in the hl for four years maybe five you know got those five games in with the wings uh you know for peace of mind anyway

at least he proved himself that he could play as a fifth or sixth if he had to but back to your point they love it other than the travel um know, there's no downside to it. You know, Beijing's a big city, so if you want to eat regular food, they have it. It doesn't suggest eating the local food because it's disgusting, you know, what they're eating. You have no idea. And I think the biggest thing is, you know,

they don't have a cap on players like the Russian team, so they've got quite a few North Americans there, which probably helps those kids a lot because they've got a big group of guys that kind of hangs together. But so far, it's been a great experience. I don't know if I want to get on that flight for 19 hours, to be honest with you. Maybe I'll catch them in Moscow or something. But no desire to go to China whatsoever for me. Actually, I fought your kid.

Ah, Jesus. You know, Jake's so dummy. Every guy he fought was a heavyweight, tough guy. I believe I saw you fight him. Who were you with then? I think I was with Manchester or maybe it was the Ontario Reign at that time. Yeah, it was Ontario Reign, but he's a tough customer. Yeah, he's tall enough to not get killed.

I forget who the kid was in Rockford. I finally went up to him after the game. I said, just leave my kid alone. One of those kids, the real tough guy playing in the minor squad, he's still playing, a great skater. He's nuts. He elbowed Zetterberg in one training camp. But you'd know if I mentioned his name.

Real tough kid, but he's still bombing around somewhere. I said to him one day, I said, Jake, why don't you instead of fighting the heavyweights, take on a little guy? So he beat up Daryl Sutter's kid, which was kind of funny. I'd play with him in Ontario as well. Yeah, and Claude Lemieux's kid

too. He went after Claude Lemieux's kid and did pretty good against him. We're going to have to have you back on because there are so many stories that you got in the vault

if you're willing to come on and share them. We've got to ask you one story before you go, and any Brett Hall story, open

format here. This is one guy we're trying to get him on the podcast. He just starts laughing. We're going to

need you to get him on for us. All right. I'll tell you what, you guys are great with me. And like I said, I got to be honest, I told you at the beginning, I'm a little leery because you guys can lose it every once in a while, which is awesome. I love listening to him,

but I don't want to be the guy getting roasted or asking those tough questions. But, Holly, his sarcasm, second to none. Once you get him outside the hockey forum, talking music, talking any other subject but hockey, he's great. If you're talking hockey with him, he is an absolute monster. He's going to tell you he knows everything, and he's the smartest individual ever to play the game.

But just the character. Nothing like some of the stories, his comments throughout the game, but just a character. Nothing like some of the stories, his comments, you know, throughout the years, up until our last stint when we did the World Cup, how rough he was and how tough he was on the U.S. team and the coaching. But not afraid to speak his mind, and I work with his dad every home game, and I know where he gets it. But he's a great character. For hockey, you know, we need more guys like him, more characters,

kind of like JR that are very outspoken and say what they mean instead of dancing around it. So I'll do my best to get Holly on there because he's got incredible stories too and such a great career. We've got one last one for you, Chelly. How cool of a guy is Eddie Vedder? I know you've gotten friendly with him over the years. Yeah, I'm actually going to see him this weekend out in

Seattle. John McEnroe has a band, so this band hasn't played for 15, 20 years, and they're doing some benefit, but I met Eddie, you know, before he was with Pearl Jam. You know, yeah, we were in San Diego at the time, and he wasn't with Pearl Jam,

and I wasn't, you know, playing hockey at the time when we were 16. He was a little younger. Then we ran into each other with the Rodman days in Chicago with the Bulls, and it was like we kind of remembered each other, but we didn't from some point. It was right before cell phones, so we just kind of kept in touch in the 93, 94. We came to a game in Vancouver, watched a game. We just hit it off right from the get-go.

And, you know, some of the trips I've gotten to go on, like I said, if I wasn't a hockey player, the next best life is being a rock star. And, you know, between him and Kid Rock, I've had an amazing run on some of the most amazing trips to, you know, South America and some of these things that money just can't buy through the friendships. And Eddie's just one of the coolest dudes you'll ever meet. The amazing singer of the band.

Like, they're just, like, feel really lucky to be around them and be a part of that whole, you know, it's 25 years that I've, almost 25 years that I've been hanging with Eddie and the band. And I guess I just consider myself, I'm sure you guys are Pearl Jam fans and, and just to be with them and flying on planes with them. It's crazy.

I'm a fan. So I mean, it's to me, it's, it's unreal. I saw them at Fenway a couple of years ago, Chelly, and it was almost like a religious experience.

It was cathartic. They were so fucking incredible. And they were so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was there. We end up on the rooftop there with some of the brass and playing cornhole up on the rooftop until 5

in the morning. Those are the stories. It's just amazing. I wouldn't miss it in Fenway just because of Wrigley. It's one of those buildings that's magical. Those two shows were amazing. I'd put them right up there with any one of the shows. My last thing, Charlie,

we'll let you go, but you're one of my idols growing up. I was 10 years old. You're a superstar. Seriously, I like being able to have you on. We stroke you off, but before I go, I'd like to ask you, do you ever remember just getting burnt on a one-on-one? What's the worst you ever got beaten by?

You must remember getting walked. Oh, Christ, yeah. I want to say, like, I never had problems with Gretzky, but I think Mario dipsy-doodled me one time and scored. It's bad enough when you get dipsy-doodled and then they don't score, but Mario undressed me in a regular season game, and I'm like, I'm going to get this son of a bitch if it's the last thing I do. And I literally, he fell into the boards in the playoffs I literally

grabbed his ankle and tried to break his ankle off the boards as we were sliding into the boards player safety is going to call this is the asshole that got five first place votes when I should have had all of them rookie of the year race right yeah and that night too which was funny I ended up going to a bar.

I took my mom to that awards banquet. And we ended up in a bar, and I look across the bar, and I see these guys look like hockey players in three-letter jackets, and it's Rick Tockett with two of his buddies, right? And they hated Mario at the time. I can't believe that he let that guy win. So that's why I became friends with Tuck, even though, you know, what a great guy he was.

But I just remember that night, you know, with those guys and the whole Mario, you know, kiss of death thing. But, again, this is stories. Like you said, it was a great night with Tuck. And, you know, the rest was history. All those years and all the fun times we've had with all the players. I'm sure you guys, like yourselves, have great stories. I miss the camaraderie, the rest was history. All those years and all the fun times we've had with all the players. I'm sure you guys, like yourselves, have great stories.

I miss the camaraderie, that's for sure, and the dinners and the nights out with the guys. That's the one thing. Not so much the playing, but, you know, all that time with the guys. Alright, well, thank you so much. That was legendary and we'd love to see you again, maybe in person sometime, but thank you very much and congrats on everything you ever accomplished. Yeah, you bet. Best great job at shooting the puck in between periods, too. You made it, but thank you very much and congrats on everything you ever accomplished. Yeah, you bet.

Best. Great job at shooting the puck in between the periods too. You made it, didn't you? Not bad. I've, I've come a long way from last year when I asked you to come on chick. That's when you looked at me like,

how the fuck did this guy get into the arena? When I was the backup, I was running. Hey, listen, I know I'm a pigeon. You made me feel like a bit of a pigeon well no i was running from you you can't tell me how i felt you can't tell me how i felt in that moment i didn't feel like i was one of you yeah i was scared i was scared i'm telling you

yeah all right jelly well thanks again. Keep working on that tan. All right, guys. Take care. Wow. I don't know what more we could say, dude. Chellios came. He brought the thunder. That story about the winter classic is just an all-fucking-timer.

We got to get the guy back. I mean, we only talked about his career for, I think, a half hour. You know, he had his comments about Babcock, which I thought, you know, added a little something to the conversation. He didn't completely soar him, but he brought a perspective that we didn't get before. So huge thanks to the Greek God. He was a great interviewer.

What do you got, Biz? We just treated him with that interview, and I got some more treats for our fans. So I texted Chelios. I said, thank you. And he goes, oh, yeah, I reached out to Holler. He goes, he's already said, yeah, a bunch of times to people he would come on. So, yeah, whenever you guys are ready. So we will get him.

And we are going to get him live in St. Louis, hopefully at the All-Star game. And we're going to get a sit down with him. And we are going to crank Budweiser's and get every goddamn fucking story out of that legend. And you guys are going to have the best time of your lives. No doubt about it. Biz, I'm not sure if you caught my either Twitter or Instagram last night, but I did dig out that Pedro Martinez autograph that I told you about last episode. Get out of here.

Oh, you didn't see it? I saw it. I saw it. This thing, you just see the allids on the other side, upside down. It's wild. And he wrote his Cy Young years, just like you said. Although it's kind of chicken scratch. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's an autograph. No, the years. I can't really like read the years. Okay. I thought you meant the right. I'm going to go look at it right now. I think the most impressive part is you keeping an Altoids thing for 15 years now.

That's incredible. Well, if you noticed, I ended up kind of going on a little tweet binge after because I had that autograph with a bunch of other knickknacks I saved over the years, including my Rodney Dangerfield autograph, a set list from a Stones concert. There's a bunch of good shit that I ended up digging out. He took some Mick Jagger, blew his nose with some tissue and he ended up going in the garbage. He has that too.

Some old tissue paper used by Mick. So there's a crazy amount of stuff at R.A.'s place. Actually, it's funny you said that because the set list from the Stones, I tweeted out Lisa Fisher, the black chick backup singer on Gimme Shelter. She actually dabbed her forehead with sweat like like that with the set list that I was in the front row and she fucking handed it to me. So I got her like sweat drenched set list from back in the day. And then someone I didn't even realize that someone pointed out because I tweeted out

a stub from a fight. I went to Gotti Ward. You know, they had one of the best boxing trilogies ever. I went to the second fight in Atlantic City. And then someone's like, dude, you went to that? And then you were at the Stone six days later in Vegas. I was like, yeah, I didn't even realize. Shelly did mention Claude Lemieux,

and he's a guy who knocked out a two-foot-two in his day. And hopefully those guys are taking care of their remaining chiclets by using Quip. The holiday season is here, and this year, your gift can start next year's good habit with Quip. Quip is something that's sure to put a smile on everyone's mouth because it's dental care and they'll actually want to use it every day. That's why Quip is the perfect, thoughtful, and practical gift.

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first refill free with a refill plan. That's your first refill free at G-E-T-Q-U-I-P.com slash checklets. C-H-I-C-L-E-T-S. One more time, that's getquip.com slash chicklets. Keep those chicklets clean with Quip. Some other news we want to get to. We have some sad news to share. Our buddy Mark-Andre Fleury's dad passed away this week. 63-year-old Andre Fleury had what was referred to as a serious illness. Mark-Andre had been away from the team a little bit to spend time with family. And the Spittin' Chicklets family here would like to extend its deepest

sympathies and condolences to Mark Andre and his family. It's obviously a tough time, so we're thinking of him. And also, I'm sure everybody saw the clip earlier this week. Jacob Markstrom lost his dad about a month or so ago. And before the game, Matt Murray, Pittsburgh goalie, skated down and gave him a little pat because Murray lost his dad a year ago. It was just one of those real – Jesus Christ, all three of those guys?

Yeah, all three two-stop goalies last year. But that clip, it was such a tend to scene, man, because, you know, we joke about tummy sticks on here all the time. And just to see him go over and, you know, just give him a little acknowledgement. You know, it was a sad thing, but it was a nice moment that came out of it. out of it so again you know we want to wish our sympathies it's crazy as you get older too like 63 is young very yes i remember thinking it was old and then you know i'm as i as i get older i'm like oh my god like you you you should have way more in life after 63 so i remember

meeting flowers dad that that was such brutal news to read. I hope he's doing okay. I'm thinking of you, buddy. And that's just awful, awful news. Yeah. So, again, our sympathies and condolences to him. And another Vegas player, Paul Stastny, he joined his father, Peter Stastny, and they joined the Hulls and the Howes for father-son combinations that each scored 700 regular season points. Very elite

company, very select crew. I mean, only three times in history. So congrats to Paul and Peter Stastny for joining such an elite group. How about that gambling corner this week, Biz? 5-0. I still have one pick pending Sunday afternoon. I had the Bruins. They came through big, pocket money. Had the Leafs. They spanked Detroit. Had the Avs Friday afternoon. I had the Bruins. They came through big, pocketing money. Had the Leafs. They spanked Detroit. Had the Avs Friday afternoon. How are you? As Witt says. I'm hot. There's no fucking two ways about it. It's feeling good right now. So, got a couple

picks this week. We're looking at Tuesday night. We're riding the Leafs. I know they lost to Buffalo, I believe, Saturday, but they were in Philly Tuesday night. No, they won. They won. They lost Friday in Buffalo, and they won Saturday at home against Buffalo. So back-to-back. All right.

Either way, I knew they lost one of those games. But regardless, we're on them Tuesday night. They're in Philly. I'm assuming Freddie Anderson's going to be starting. So obviously, that's a big thing. But if Freddie's starting, we're jumping on Toronto for the Moneyline and half of the Moneyline wage that we're going to throw on the puck line. And also that same night, Vegas Golden Knights in New Jersey, we're going to be taking Vegas on the puck line. I have no idea what the line's going to be, money line, so I don't want

to steer people to too high of a favorite. So two picks on the corner this week, or this episode rather. Toronto in Philly, Tuesday night, again, moneyline and half of that on the puck line. And then Vegas, we're going to take on the puck line. They're in Jersey. So hopefully we'll keep it rolling, and I'll be tweeting those out. Also, I've been tweeting my brother out. He just joined Twitter. He's a college football aficionado, and he's 4-1 so far on Twitter pics.

So hopefully you can make some dough on that as well. How you been hitting them, Whit? I've been pretty good. I mean, it's been a really tough stretch, but lately it's been going better. And here in Vegas, I got a bunch of action on football today, so we'll see how that plays out. Usually it goes horrific, but there's always the late bailout game, and that's the Patriots tonight.

So I'm excited for a day of gambling and playing golf and trying to win some more money. Last night, though, I wanted to quickly mention Ovechkin. Another hat trick. Kidding me? Two of the goals, I think, were empty netters. Still doesn't matter. He's got 20 already, not slowing down.

Pasternak's effort in the overtime game already that we came back live. Wow. Oh, it's the game easy for this guy. By the way, like all of the – some of his best plays of the year are assists, and he's got 24 goals or 25, whatever it is now. So that was some fun hockey to watch. And there was a third thing I wanted to mention, but I can't think of it right now.

I'll remember it. All right. Well, you can think about it and come back next episode with it. Biz, you got any final potting thoughts before we move on? Oh, it was the OV stat. It was the stat I had in my head. I can't believe I remembered this. The fifth player in NHL history with 20-plus goals in his first 15 years

in the league. Like, that is insane numbers. Every single year getting more than 20. And so I think without lockout years, it probably would be 30-plus, 40-plus, who knows. But there it was. I was i remembered it gee what's up with the merch brother we've been fucking pounding it huh yeah we're selling a ton of merch right now and uh the sale continues 20 off through cyber monday so get all the stuff you can everything's going quick so um we're selling out of stuff we're selling a bunch of stuff so uh ugly sweaters, Nike merch, not a big deal.

It's all going. And for everyone who's, I've gotten a ton of tweets, messages, that some stuff's out of stock. I mean, thank you so much for looking to buy. It's been, some of the stuff's been popular and it'll definitely come back in, right, Mikey? It's just that right now, you just got to kind of keep checking. Yeah, they just don't want to promise you stuff

that they can't get to you in time. So it will be back. Everything that we have in the store will be back and you still will be able to order. Oh, and the Barstool Sports Cyber Monday Telethon is obviously on Cyber Monday, 20% off. Call into that, buy some merch. And as always, Barstool will donate some of the money to a good cause. And so tune in, buy some merch, 20% off. I believe it starts at 6 p.m. on Monday. Awesome. That was perfect. Oh, go ahead,

Barstool. Also, wearing black and gold, you know, they're just colors. It doesn't mean you're flying the Bruins flag or the Penguins flag. You know, when me and Witt started the podcast, we had no idea what it was going to be. We're a Boston-based hockey show. We went with the Boston hockey colors. It was a no brainer. But, you know, I hear people complain about the colors. You don't have to buy them. But if you do, they're just fucking black and gold, man. It's a gorgeous fucking sweater.

And a lot of people don't understand because we don't pump it a ton on social media because there's just so much negativity there. But we have colors in every team every canadian team we made sweatshirts for and we have colors for every t-shirt every team and so just check out the website it's store.barstoolsports.com or barstoolsports.com slash chiclets you can see all of our stuff there and if you have merch questions message grinnell don't dm me yeah i don't fucking know i got other shit to worry about i fucking we're gonna line up interviews grinnell's running the mothership of the merch okay and you can always shoot me an email as well it's just grinnell at barstool sports.com if you have any merch questions comments or

concerns one last thing i didn't really talk about that nhl first timer and uh i just wanted to thank the nhl and uh ron ruxtel family. Like, that was the guy I surprised. He was diagnosed with Lewy Body's disease, which it's shitty. Watch the piece I did with the NHL and him, and you can learn more about it, and he'll tell you exactly how it affects him in his everyday life. So we ended up doing that NHL first-timer in Toronto that we never got to do last year. We surprised him.

I flew to New Brunswick with my boy pasha um the boys knew because his boy had tweeted me and uh we set up all the cameras in the place the mother took him for coffee in the morning and then he walked in and we're like yo what's up we're bringing you to a fucking Leafs game bro and him and his boys were so fun like they were a riot. We were crushing beers, telling stories. They were the spit and chiclets crew type. Quick funny story. I had some panties from the night before on me, and I used it as a pocket square,

and that was our good luck charm for the night. So I don't know if we should leave that in. I don't know if it's not fair. Dill Carey Price move. Remember, his wife hooked him up for the nhl awards last year remember that she gave him a pever bloomers to use as a pocket score oh really okay there you go so so so yeah then and then i started calling spark plug ronnie and they sure enough they ended up winning the game matthews uh scored matthews and tyson berry came uh out after and that's when i talked about babcock coming out and saying hi to him too.

And he was, he was awesome with him. So, you know, get credit where it's due and that he got to meet all the guys and shit. So it was a very special night for him. I was, I was very pumped to be able to get to do that and have a half to the game and experience some of his boys before, know time uh you know time passes on and the reason i mentioned all that is i really wanted to thank tim mashford and he made it possible for them to get a suite in toronto they ended up comping the whole thing um and that's at the toronto city center marriott hotel and it's the one connected to the roger center i actually

did a meet and greet there at the sports net grill on the bottom. So, big thank you to Tim Ashford. Ron and his boys were over the moon. As I mentioned, the red carpet treatment and I mean, I haven't stopped texting with the kid because he's so grateful and he's like, thank you so much. I'm like, dude, like, thank you. That was so fun. Like, I got to go to a freaking

Leafs game and I got to get the red carpet rolled out for me. I got the same fucking experience so it's it's really cool so thank you to the NHL as well because they made it all possible the Toronto Maple Leafs Matthews Barry Steve Kehoe who's awesome to us he teed us up Matthews a few times so he works behind the scenes so love you Leafs NHL and Ronnie spark plug Ronnie we love you buddy and I think I speak for everyone when I say this biz job well done because that was a So love you Leafs, NHL, and Ronnie. Spark plug, Ronnie. We love you, buddy. And I think I speak for everyone when I say this, Biz.

Job well done because that was a very emotional piece, and it meant a lot to a lot of people. All right. Thanks, G. Love you. All right. I got one last quick note before we wrap up. It's a recommendation on Netflix.

There was a series on that Netflix produced called The Toys That Made Us, basically toys that Gen X and millennials play with. with well they have a new version of that it's called the movies that made us and they're like 45 minute documentaries about the making of certain movies uh this first season has home alone ghostbusters die hard and dirty dancing i watched the die hard one last night at about four in the morning it was out fucking standing. Can't recommend it enough. If you're looking for a nice little piece of popcorn, the movies that made us the Die Hard episode, fan-fucking-tastic. But that's going to wrap it up for this week.

Hopefully everybody has a great week, and we'll be checking back with you Thursday. Take care, all. And as always, we want to send a special thank you to our awesome sponsors. If you want to check out Movement Watches, you want to go to MVMT.com and use the code HOLIDAY19. If you want to get yourself a comfortable pair of Mugsy jeans, you're going to go to Mugsy.com and use the code SPIT

to get 25% off when you order two or more pairs. You want to keep those chiclets nice and clean with Quip, so you want to go to GetQuip.com slash chiclets. And also a special thanks to Hinge for helping our buddy Rudy find some love. Take care, everybody.'t help to hide. If you hurt my friends, then you hurt my pride. I gotta be a man, I can't let it slide. I am a real American. Fight for the rights of every man.

I am a real American. Fight for what's right, fight for your life.