Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 232: Featuring Brian Burke + Rone

Episode Date: January 3, 2020

On Friday's episode of Spittin' Chiclets, the guys are joined by two wildly different and wildly entertaining guests. Former NHL GM Brian Burke joined the podcast for a quick chat about his career, making trades, and a ton more. The guys then talk to Adam Ferrone aka Rone from Barstool Sports who is a famed Battle Rapper. The boys also recap their trip to Dallas, their live show, the Winter Classic and a bunch more.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad- get on the road again The life I love is making music with my friends And I can't wait to get on the road again On the road again Going places that I've never been Seeing things that I may never see again I can't wait to get on the road again. On the road again.

My command to get there is we go down the highway. We're the best of friends. Insisting that the world keeps turning our way. And our way. Hello, everybody. And I'll wait on the road again And that went down to Dallas for a few days, but it felt like a month. A lot of work, a lot of fun, a lot of play. Let's see how the boys are feeling today. We just get in last night. Mikey G, how you doing, buddy?

I feel very thankful. That's what I'll say. Happy New Year, boys, but I feel very thankful. Our listeners are the best listeners in the world. They came out and supported us at the Rustic and then again at the Pink Whitney Pavilion. So I'll leave it to you guys. You guys are rock stars. You put on a hell of a show.

And I'm just happy to be a part of this pod for another year. Well, G, you were a rock star this week, buddy. I mean, this doesn't all happen without you doing things behind the scenes. So we thank you as well. You were a big part of this week as well, even if people might not see you as much. So next up. Tommy Sticks. Holy shit.

Oh, I guess we need a rag over there. Next up. Clean up aisle seven. The wit dog, Ryan Whitney. You skedaddled a little bit early, so you probably feel a little better than the rest of the crew. Yeah, I feel great. I feel phenomenal, actually.

Right after the little interviews we did with Craig Ludwig, Pink Whitney Pavilion, we did a show, New Amsterdam. I jetted out of there. Listen, guys, I got there like 8 in the morning, Saturday. And what was that, four nights? I mean, I had to get home. I mean, the game looked awesome. I was kind of rattled after walking with Biz before

and talking about kind of the whole pregame atmosphere. But still, it was time for the Whit Dog to head home, guys. Sometimes you just got to go. Oh, absolutely. I you just got to go. Oh, absolutely. I felt like I was coming home from Vegas last night. Last but not least, the rock star of the crew. Walking around with this guy, man, yesterday.

It was legit like falling a rock star. Biz Nasty, Paul Bissonette. What's up, buddy? You know me, guys. I got time for everyone, especially our fans. Although there was a couple guys who stopped me outside the bathroom, and I had to get back to my seat quick. And I told them no for a picture and I felt really bad. So I actually didn't sleep last night.

So that's the shit that keeps me up at night. I know what I'm here with. Let me hear it. So for everyone, not just biz, we finished the show at the Rustic. Awesome time. Great time. And then we went up. We went up to the outside area and we were taking pictures, meeting people, um, signing bottles of pink, not bottles, but flags, everything.

And biz's line is a monster line. I'm talking, you know, 200 deep and everyone's coming up to me. One guy, how come biz's line's longer than yours? Two guy, how come your line's not as long as biz nasty's? Third guy said, I said, you want to know why? Because he talks to every person for 27 minutes, and I respect the hell out of him for doing it, but that's not me. I don't have that in my bag right now. So that's why his fucking line is so long. So stop asking me. And for you people who insult me about smoking weed and taking mushrooms,

the reason that I do that is I'm able to just open up different layers to the brain. Like you said, I talk to everyone hopefully for at least five minutes, but you mentioned the word rock star. I felt like a rock star when someone before the show said, every time your drink is half empty, someone's going to bring you a new one. I thought I was like, fuck, what am I Elton fucking John up here? So it was a very cool experience. So much love that we felt. It's definitely something that we're going to keep doing, the live shows. And as far as people wondering about the audio, we feel like a live show is something for the people that show up that can experience. Although if the audio quality is good enough,

we will release some of the interviews and maybe even some portions of the show that we feel that we should be able to share on the podcast. But do you guys agree that those people who showed up got something that we should be able to share on the podcast but do you guys agree that that hey those people who showed up got something that no one else got to experience yeah i mean that's part of you know they come out to see us and that's the what they get for it not to mention some free swag as well and i think we should probably get into right away the the overall atmosphere in game against the dallas stars and Nashville Predators. Very cool how they had it where they have the state fair. Yeah, Texas State Fair.

Does it take place in the summertime? I believe they told me October, I think she said. Okay, so they had all these games and areas already set up, so it made for a great atmosphere, and people had other things to do other than just tailgate right so i think uh moving forward you may see them use that uh you know that that style of thing uh moving forward so it was a great atmosphere met tons of awesome people uh the pig racists do you guys want to get into those oh yeah we got tons of stuff to talk about well i mean of course with gambling involved ra was even more excited that this was going on

over the course of the game. They had three rounds of pig races, and then the winners were advancing to the finals, and they made them into players' names. They were getting very creative. We had Edzo down there. I'm assuming he was gambling on that. Oh, somebody was down there taking Edzo's action,

no doubt about that. But it was really – Ro-ham-jo-see. It was cool, though, how they did incorporate all these elements of Texas into the arena, into the game. I mean, the coaches wearing the cowboy hats, the pig races, the honor guard come out on horses, even though the poor buggers literally shit themselves when they lit those fireworks off.

The mutton busting, it was just – you know, it gave a real Texas flavor. But, Biz, you're right, that Texas Day Fair, that was a great call having it there because it's not open this time of year, but they just opened it up. We got there, what, 9.30 in the morning, three and a half hours before the game. There had to be 20, 30,000 people there already, and that was New Year's Day. A lot of people out getting buckled the night before. Tremendous show, and I thought it was a St. Paddy's Day party when we got in the stadium because there was so much green, but you also saw huge pockets of yellow.

And I'll tell you, man, like, yeah, Dallas fans were great, but we got to shout out the Predators fans. I overheard someone say that 20,000 of them came for just the game. 25, 25, the guy was saying. I mean, and honestly, I thought it was a much more festive atmosphere, and this isn't a diss to Chicago or Notre Dame, but it was a much more festive atmosphere this year. isn't a diss to Chicago or Notre Dame, but it was a much more festive atmosphere this year. And again, Chicago's had 19 winter classics,

so the appeal may have worn off a bit for them. But I had an absolute blast. The people down there, I mean, we're Northeast assholes, so when we go down there, it makes us nicer a little bit too. And the people are so nice to us down there. So awesome time. What else you got, boys? Pierre Maguire, deep-throating corndogs.

I turned one down. I mean, it's kind of dirty. Was those all still, like, how do you let them do that, right? I mean, you got to have a producer. Like, yo, if Grinnelli didn't tell me, hey, wait, put that corndog down before the camera gets to you, there's going to be a million memes or memes, whatever they're called, of you just sucking down a corn dog.

They're called memes now. I don't know. Is it gif or jif or meme or meme? You always get me on that one. But if you're going to tell me, hey, if you're not going to tell me, Whit, put the corn dog down, you're dead to me. I mean, Grinnelli, we would be in

one. I mean, that's myi, we would be in one. I mean, that's my job. That's the producer's job. Don't let them look like assholes. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Then what's my excuse? Because I don't let him save you.

Yeah, fucking ad reads and all this bullshit. Anyway, great atmosphere. Bravo to the NHL, all you Dallas fans. Congrats on the comeback. I had Nashville winning that game 4-2. And the reason I said that is they've been struggling, and I thought maybe that was the time they could turn their season around and get marching. But holy shit, man, gave up a two-goal lead.

And, I mean – In eight minutes. I think it took them eight minutes to get those four for Dallas, correct? Yeah, that's a tough one there. So hopefully they can get things going because their fan base deserves it. Yeah, it's nice to give out a W-2. I must have got asked when we had the line after the pavilion, I must have got asked 25 times who the bet was that day.

And I was like, hey, I didn't come to Dallas to bet the Predators, but I was a little scared like you, Biz, that they don't. They're due to win. They're struggling lately and, you know, hurting hurting teams of dangerous teams but not so much yesterday and the reason we did get there i want to mention the reason we did get there so early it was the debut of the pink whitney pavilion to get interviewed by craig ludwig and i had a blast dude imagine playing against him i mean he's a fucking monster off the ice he must have tanked holy shit uh but i had a blast it was actually fun boys to have the tables turned on us and us not to have to prepare for an interview

and just kind of react naturally. I had a blast doing that. Yeah, and he was funny. He did a great job of driving the bus. And, Whit, I'll let you chime in here, and then we've got to go back to speaking of sussies. It was great because the ability to just be able to answer a question as opposed to ask one is – I don't think people understand the difference.

I could sit there and get interviewed forever, but when you have to ask people questions, you're trying to prepare as they're answering. And he did an awesome job. He had a bunch of research. He was busting our balls for the night we all made our locks, and I think no one even sniffed winning. He brought that up, the bad gambling night we had. And he was just able to kind of bring out some funny stories and share

some of his own so that was great and before we move on from the game though the greatest walk of shame in the history of hockey of all people the worm Corey Perry who some people hate as much as Brad Marchand in terms of the dirty shit they do on the ice, has to walk what felt like 10 minutes with the whole crowd booing him. He was a fucking meme yesterday. What was he, two minutes? What time of the game was that? It was less than two minutes in.

Yeah, two, three minutes in. Former MVP, he's won it all, he's done it all, and he's always played just dirty. That's all. It's all you could say. And he gets kicked out with, I mean, it sucks for,

well, it sucks for Ellis. That's awful. I hope he's okay. But Perry, I mean, get ready to play that game. And you last a minute.

That's just wild. I've seen every meme. I've seen the making my way downtown, walking fast. Nice. She'd a curb, making my way downtown, walking fast. Oh, Curb? Did you see the Curb one? Yeah, Curb Your Enthusiasm. He got that treatment as well.

Something interesting to look for, I would assume he's probably looking at, you know, four or five games, I would imagine, based off the fact that Ellis is now out with a concussion as well. In three games, it should have been his return back to Anaheim, so he's probably going to miss that one. I'm not sure whether they go back there again. I haven't looked that deep into it. So more than likely, Corey Perry will be missing his return to Anaheim

in about a week here. Yeah, and you've got to figure they'll probably count that yesterday. The classic is one game already. Cause there was still basically three periods left. So, I mean, that's essentially good. Do they factor that in?

You think, I don't know if they actually acknowledge it. No, no. Okay. I don't know. That's total guess by me though. I'm as confident as,

as usual in that. I'm really not confident at all, but it's like, I don't know. He's a, it was a part of that game. It's added on to it. So what's, what's everyone's guess here four or five games oh man I was I guess with him being injured that just changes everything I say I say three yeah I think three two and then like I said

what's missing the rest of the game yesterday is essentially a four game suspension but I think officially it'll be three listen Listen, nothing against Corey Perry. I just feel that considering it was on the national stage and Ellis is injured, I'm going to say four or five. Hey, who knows? Even more. I don't know what – I'd have to watch it over and over. Is he a repeat offender? I know he's been suspended, but I'm wondering if it's like –

because don't you lose your status if it's long enough? Yeah, it's within a certain time frame, yeah. So I'm not sure when his last event – and honestly, he's done a lot worse than that if we're – Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So I'm not sure when his last event, and honestly, he's done a lot worse than that. If we're being honest. Oh, yeah. He's done about as bad as shit as you could do on the ice. He'll do anything, anything.

Anything to win. Hey, anything to win, he really will. As for the game itself, it was the second biggest Winter Classic crowd ever. 85,630 people. I didn't realize it was that many in there. It was almost 10,000 more than Notre Dame last year. Second biggest to the big house in Michigan back in 14 when they had 105,000.

Not sure that record's going to get touched. And one other note I wanted to add to it. It wasn't just us four who made all this happen. We want to give a huge thank you and send our love to our guy Rudy, But we want to give a huge thank you and send our love to our guy, Rudy, Cameron and Corey, of course, Lisa and MB at our Boston headquarters. And naturally new Amsterdam vodka and pink Whitney without all that gang. And specifically Nate at new Amsterdam, without all those guys,

none of this happens. Like I said, it's not just us. A lot of people behind the scenes made all this week happen. And we want to give them a huge hug and a big thanks. And the NHL as well. Apparently, they've made it very easy for us to get into buildings as far as the Pink Whitney's concerned, and they've helped roll out the red carpet for us and give us access to certain guys. So shout out to the NHL as well.

We love you guys. Good call, Biz. Good call. And they did announce next year's Winter Classic. It's going to be in Minnesota at Target Field. And about two minutes after that announcement, Whitney booked his trip to Disney World with the family. He's like, yeah, I'm not going to be able to make that one next year. No.

I'm just teasing. I love this whole thing. I want to go where I can stay, but maybe next year you bring the family. It's tough being away on New Year's Eve. Actually, no, no, no. I'm going to say it's tough on girls. Guys, who gives a fuck about New Year's Eve? I, no, no, no. I'm going to say it's tough on girls. Guys, who gives a fuck about New Year's Eve? I think it's the stupidest thing.

I was in bed at 10 o'clock. So was I. But the wife's like, hey, we should be together on New Year's Eve. You wake up. We don't even stay up. You wake up, January 1, boom, awesome. So I was fine, but maybe next year the family will be involved. And finally we get to Minnesota.

I mean, if there's one state who's been asking us over and over, and we've been trying to get there, just, you know, logistic schedules, but it looks like it's going to work next year, so we're certainly going to be looking forward to that. It'll definitely be chilly next year, and I know the temptation, guys, is to layer up, but there's one layer you don't need, and that's a big bush. So you're going to want to check out Manscaped, okay? It's 2020, and you know what that means.

New year, new me, new balls. Men, listen up. Harry Bush is a so, not even 2019, 1979. If you're going to pick any New Year's resolution this year, let it be to take care of your junk, and that's what Manscaped is for. They make it easy with their grooming products. Manscaped has redesigned the electric trimmer. Their Lawn Mower 2.0 has proprietary

skin-safe technology, so this trimmer won't nick or snag your nuts. That's the worst. Manscaping accidents are finally a thing of the past. You don't like to have to explain cuts on your balls to your old lady, too. That's no fun. And don't use the same trimmer on your face that you use on your balls. That's nasty. Manscaped also has the Crop Preserver, an anti-chafing ball deodorant and moisturizer. You already put your deodorant in your armpits, so why aren't you putting on your smelliest part of your body, your nuggets? Get 20% off and free shipping with the code CHICKLETS

at manscaped.com. Start the new year off right by using the best tools for the job. Your balls will thank you, and so will your partner. Get 20% off and free shipping with the code CHICKLETS at manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com, and use the code CHICKLETS. Hey, what do you think Vegas would have the odds at when R.A. was at North Adams State doing nothing but drugs,

that at some point in his life he would be paid to talk about shaving his bush? Funny enough, that's where I started it. Honestly, I didn't do a lot of hard drugs. Mushrooms and weed. That was basically my gig in college. Don't make me sound like a fucking Keith Richards over here. Jesus. Well, you could perform like him on stage.

You wouldn't know. Yeah, no shit. Hey, boys, the All-Star Game rosters were announced in the last several days. Were there any surprises, omissions, anything catch you off guard? I noticed there was a lot of new blood, which I think is good. We can showcase a lot of these young stars. But what was your reaction to the list? My reaction was just Marshawn, right?

That's everyone's initial where I think of the top 12 leading scorers in the NHL, he was the only one not named as an all-star, and he was at third. Those numbers might be a little off, but you know what I'm saying in terms of that he got robbed. But, Ari, you are right. It's tough to get mad over these things, and that's the only thing I'll say is I think the all-star game just needs a little – something has to change. So that's just my opinion.

These rosters come out, and and I see it and nothing really – I don't get super excited, so I'm not that mad. That was the only one that really like, oh, you can make a huge argument. But in the end, it's just if something could change to get people a little bit more excited, I think it would be enormous. I think we talked about it a little bit last episode. I don't look too much into it as far as guys getting left off just because guys drop out and then maybe they'll eventually replace them.

So then essentially we're just bitching about someone who eventually got in. Just with the way they set it up now with the three-on-three, like guys are going to get snubbed every year more so now. I mean, I don't even have an idea of what they could do in order to spice it up even more because they moved it to three-on-three in order to do so and offered a million dollars to the winning team, so guys maybe gave more of a shit about the All-Star game.

Now, I still feel like everyone doesn't want to be the hard-o out there, so everyone kind of just goes at that 70% pace, if that, depending on how hungover certain guys are. And shout out Dylan Larkin's tweet, Biz. What's that? Dylan Larkin, when he said, I think he tweeted out, please don't vote for me. I'd rather the day is off when he's up for the fight.

Well, that's what I'm saying. So what do they do? Maybe they start like a grinder game and bring all the fourth liners and then offer the million-dollar prize. And next thing you know, guys are fucking scrapping. They should go back to sticks in the middle. Like they did that one year when Kessel was the last guy picked it. I don't know if they,

if they did thought they embarrassed them or something. Cause they haven't done that since have they, I thought that was awesome when they drafted their own teams. Yeah. I remember that. It's funny. They just, they ended up changing. I will say Jeff Merrick's the one who we talked about this one time.

I remember him saying, for people who do complain, and Marshawn Wright, I think you should have made the team, but two Bruins are on there. How many Bruins are there? Two? Is it three? Tukor and Pastor and Bergeron's on that last man in vote. Okay. So people say, well, it's so stupid that you need to have a guy from every team.

Well, Marek was the one who was kind of saying, it's about the kids. How fired up do you get when you're a little kid for the All-Star game? And that's what I remember going when Bork scored the goal in Boston. I went to the skills competition and the game. Oh, when he went four for four on the targets? I don't know what he did on the targets that year in Boston. I know he scored the game-winning goal, like the last minute of the game in Boston, and it was sick.

So I remember being fired up. And so the point of having a guy from every team is as a younger kid from every NHL city that's going to be so pumped to watch the skills competition, some 10-, 11-year-old, and they all start getting the next day, they get to see a guy from their team, their hometown team. So I understand that side of it. And actually, just after we recorded on Sunday, we got an all-timer from Torts.

It was too bad we already recorded. Oh, shit. Oh, man. And in case you weren't up to speed, what happened was the refs blew a penalty, and Torts thought the time should have been reset back about a second, which does happen all the time. Usually they'll confer, they'll look at the clock and say, oh yeah, shit, there should be another second on.

And he felt that the refs were being stubborn. They weren't listening to him or Foligno. And of course, Zach Wierenski scores with point, it was just after the buzzer when there should have been time left on the clock. So Torts, gee, why don't you cue it up for us? So the whistle blows, the whistle is blown at 19.2 on the clock for some reason the clock has run down a second and a tenth to 18.1 for whatever reason i have no idea so instead of resetting the clock we have them tell our captain we're not going to do it.

Toronto doesn't step in. Refs don't do their freaking job. And now we lose the game and we lose our goal. So the chain of events, if it was done right, we don't lose our goalie. We win the hockey game. So all this technology, right? The technology and getting things right, the stubbornness tonight by the officials and by the league and Toronto, however it's supposed to work, screws us. It's ridiculous.

I'm not taking any. I mean, you know, Torts is Torts. So valid. It is. I mean, there's nothing wrong with what he said other than the fact that, you know, he'll get dinged up by the NHL. But that's got to be so frustrating. 20K, all right.

20 he got. It was a 20? Okay. And they said if he says anything moving forward, like he's on a time stamp here, that he's going to get ching-chinged what? It would move up to 45K? Or an additional 25 grand? Either way, a little pee-pee whack from the NHL.

And you had a pretty good rant about this and the fact of, listen, I also don't know how much bitching Torts was doing earlier in the game, and this is something that's not talked about much. He is bang on on his description of what happened in overtime as far as the penalty, and then, of course, his goalie, his starting goalie who's been on fire lately going down and that's probably what ticked him off the most but if you're laying into a referee over the course of the game about maybe some some iffy calls maybe at that point

when he bitched about the second the ref's like dude i don't even want to hear from you anymore because we're in overtime and i'm getting yelled at all game from you now if that was the first thing he said to him and he's like hey bud I just need you to check the time because they ran it off a little bit and that's you know time that we can use to score a goal to end this fucking thing and they completely brushed him off that's on the referee man I mean it already was I'm I went back to my first point about the bitching all game some of these these refs get verbally abused and we've talked about that before. But just go fucking check the time.

I mean, who gives a shit, right? I don't know. Yeah, it's so weird. For his goalie to go down and for the fact that they fucking scored, of course it would have been towards the coach who would have asked them to change it, and it couldn't have worked out in a line better for entertainment value on our side of things. It's just – I don't, I don't.

So he was bringing up Toronto in the, in the little clip we played. Can they step in if they noticed that it's that, that it was wrong? I mean, I feel like that has to be the ref. I wish I knew for sure. But if you look at like how it all went down, it seems pretty easy to say, Hey, Hey, a second, second, an extra second went off the clock after the whistle. I remember being on the bench and constantly, if that happened,

the whole bench was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And for the most part, they'd check. So, yeah, if they were going at it and that was the end of a long night where he wasn't going to check for them, that's one thing. But I was very surprised to see something like that not get fixed. It was getting fixed 10 years ago when I played. I feel like it would be even more accurate now in getting the exact

time when the whistle blew. For them to lose their goalie and for them to have points in 10 straight, 6-0-4, that's how they lost their goaltender and a big game. That sucks because what a frigging run they've had. And I shit on them before the year and saying I didn't think they were going to be able to do much.

You lose that type of – those type of offensive players in Panera and Duchesne, how are you going to score goals? And it's been a grind a little bit, but to go on a run like that, give credit to Torts, give credit to a lot of guys, and they've been battling injuries too. It just sucks to see that that night kind of put them really behind the eight ball goaltending wise well we know those guys are going to play hard especially under torts um and all right you mentioned that you don't even like gambling on columbus because they're just so unpredictable yeah i mean it's not a in a disrespectful way it's just you don't know if they're going to win or lose like i mean the

perfect example which you said six oh and four in last 10. They've gotten points in all of them, but you're basically 50-50. You're going to hit the bet. And like you said, I mean, Biz, that's why Torch was so probably pissed off because he lost his goaltending. In the locker room, those players were really bummed out because he started off slow, Corpus All, but he's picked his game up. I mean, he's been probably the team's

best player. You know, a 10-game winning streak, sorry, point streak. This is a team people don't think is going to go to the playoffs. They're within sniffing distance. Then they lose their number one guy. So we got to see if Elvis is going to keep the boat afloat. Hey, Elvis, we got to win this game. And that's a great point.

I didn't even factor that in. I mean, like, we're acting like these guys are going for a lottery pick because they lost all these guys. And, you know, you know how competitive torts is. And, yeah, losing the starting goalie when you're starting to fucking catch fire we all know what a good goalie can where it can get you i mean we look at hall the year that he won the heart i mean he dragged that that new jersey team in the playoffs absolutely and you know gustav nightquist another guy who started off slow he's been on a tail lately leading the team and scoring nine goals 19 assists and

you know he was their big free agent acquisition acquisition. So he's contributing as well. But this is a team, I think they're, what, six points back of a playoff spot right now. And, again, a lot of people had them probably pegged for the lottery. So, you know, they're a team to root for, I guess, if you like an underdog. So either way, tough break for Corpus Allo. Hopefully they'll get him back for the stretch run, though. Had an interesting stat biz that came across the wire about wins in the calendar

year 2019. St. Louis did lead the league with 56. But number two, the Carolina Hurricanes, they set a franchise record with 54 wins in the calendar year 2019. 40 years in the league, that's a pretty big deal for them. This is a team on the rise. They got a hell of a roster. I think Rod Brindamore is a huge factor. He seems to be a very successful coach thus far.

But one name this year that's, you know, really jumped out at me has been James Reimer, man. I mean, he was a bit of a journeyman, bounced around, played for a few different teams, and he's been fucking lights out most nights this year. I mean, I guess I'll take this over. I thought their goaltending was going to be dog shit this year, and I didn't think they were going to be able to repeat what they did last year in that magical run so I'll put my foot in my mouth and I'll get bent over no spit no lube sandpaper finish so congratulations to the Hurricanes and that organization they have really turned things around and really I mean they got they got some young guys in that system like I don't see them

going in a way going away away anytime soon. They're, they're fun to watch and to, to get to the Eastern conference final last year. Right. Did anyone see that happening? And then they come back and they didn't really lose. I mean, I don't know exactly what they lost off the top of my head right now,

but they got their core back. The, the Ajo's there and Tara Vine. And Oh my God, you think the Blackhawks want to maybe redo that one? Gave up on turbo a little bit early there, and he's looked awesome. He leads that team in scoring. I said Ajo.

Dougie Hamilton's gotten – people give him grief, right? I don't know what he's like in the locker room. You kind of hear things, Biz, right? Well, this guy can play, and I know we had the one instance last year where it was the teammate looking for the Knox biz, and he gave him the hug. Remember that awkward thing? Yeah, it was awkward.

Yeah, who gives a shit when you're playing like he is? Because offensively, he just – he's able to – he skates with the puck so well. He shots so hard from the point. He's just made a – made like a big-time impact that I think people saw he would – saw him doing at some point in his career with where he was drafted. And you can kind of go on listing all the, all the names on that team,

but Brynden Moore, I think guys love playing for him. And my sense getting to getting to see him at the very end of his career, maybe I was in the, in the league with him for a couple of years. Oh my God, this guy worked his balls off. And you knew for a fact, if he'd ever coach his teams would do the exact same thing there'd be no nights where this team wasn't working because that's never how he was as a player and he's so adamant on that so i i think what's also cool is that as much um uh how do you word it caroline has been uh not exactly thought of as a hockey talent

at times in the past 15 years, but when they're good and when they go to the Eastern Conference Finals and those cup runs, dude, I was at a cup final game. It's insanity. The place is so loud. They're tailgating before. They just need winners to get fans down there. That's how it is in North Carolina. These people are loyal and love this team now. So I think it's pretty cool to see that they haven't slowed down. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get back to the Eastern Conference Finals if they're getting goaltending.

Not to correct you, you said the last 15 years. I don't know when they won at last, but there was a few years there where they were still getting the attendance, but there was a pretty hard drop off when they got bad. They kind of went away for a bit. There was rumors that they were going to be one of the teams that was going to move.

And I've probably been a guy that said maybe they should move. But if they're this good and people are going, it's just different. It's just – it's awkward to see the place be dead empty the years that they were bad. At least you'd think some people would still show up. And not to shift it to, you know, a sad subject, but Eric Holla, he lost. I guess I'll let you take it over, R.A.

You probably have it written down. Yeah, these are the tough stories we don't like to necessarily talk about, but they're out there, so we like to keep people informed. Carolina forward Eric Holler, he posted on Instagram that his unborn daughter had passed away, and he did write on the sticks the RIP and the date. And I guess he scored the next game and kind of gave a point up to the heavens, which is just – I mean, I can't imagine having to go through that

as a human being, let alone an athlete in front of all those people. So, you know, we just want to send our heartfelt sympathies to Haller and his family because it's something – you know, I think a lot of people go through that. Not everybody makes public, and for him to make it public is it's a, it's a commendable thing. So, uh, you know, uh, our, our prayers are with him and we hope better days ahead for him and his family. Of course. Well said. All right. All right.

Biz and just shift them back to car. The Canes did win the cup in oh six. And you're right. They did lose a little bit of, um, ticket sales, whatever, but they got a huge bump last year. I know Sarah Sivian, she's a great reporter for The Athletic. She did a big story on them. Basically, they sold the – I don't have the number off the top of my head – sold a shitload of season tickets. So I think their crowds are going to be coming back. Anytime you have a nice little run like that, it's always a big deal for a team.

And right now, they're the number one wild card, and they're only two points back at Pittsburgh for the third in the division. So it wouldn't be a surprise at all to see them back in the playoffs. Can we shift to Pittsburgh just very quickly? Sure. And I know we stroke them off every episode. I was checking out Twitter, and I forget the guy's name. I ran across his page again.

Evgeny Malkin since Sidney Crosby went out with injury. Okay, these are the numbers. And there might have been one more game played after this was tweeted. are the numbers and and there might have been one more game played after this was tweeted 21 games for Evgeny Malkin nine goals 25 assists 76 shots on goal Penguins outscoring teams 26 to 15 with him on the ice at five on five Penguins outscoring teams 40 to 19 with him on the ice in all situations a 15 5 and 3 record he missed two of, of course. So Evgeny Malkin just going in complete beast mode right now, and that was just more analytically giving you some numbers because I know we stroked him off last episode

and didn't really say what he'd done. And I respect, as a former Penguin myself, that you lead off with the good, but the bad, oh, Jake Gensel, guys. What a shitty break for a guy who had a career year last year, and you know how he came back from that biz? He was in the process of having even a bigger career year or another career year.

And to see him be out for the year, it just sucks because what he was doing was proven that it wasn't because of Sidney Crosby. This guy could do it on his own. He's that good of a goal scorer. And you know what? The Penguins at this point have missed Crosby, Dumoulin, Letang, Malkin, Rust, and Justin Schultz for different spans throughout this season. And they've just continued to win.

And it's been so admirable. But you also think that none of those guys' injuries was season-ending, and this is. So pretty shitty break for a guy that you could tell teammates love and for someone who's really turned into a star in the league, if not already one. Those are two cup contenders now who have lost guys out for the season with Tarasenko and St. Louis. Mind you, he may come back from playoffs.

Correct. But, I mean, he may come back from playoffs. Correct. But, I mean, that's a long chunk of time in order to sustain it. But we can move on from Pittsburgh because we do spend enough time on him. So get well soon, Gents, and best of luck to our boys. And just a quick note, though. They did say for the rest of the regular season, he's got a four- to six-month recovery. So if the Pens were to go on a run, it's possible he could return

for the playoffs. It's right now just the regular season. And, yes, he was leading the team in goals and points. So if the Pens were to go on a run, it's possible he could return for the playoffs. It's right now just a regular season. And, yes, he was leading the team in goals and points. So hopefully we'll get him back soon. Get him some can I brands. People do recover. And the recovery times now are wild. So you're right.

I shouldn't have said definite. No, we'll see what happens. Hey, man, Montreal, tough sledding up there lately. Other than Max Domi scoring in five straight, it's been a rough run for the Habs lately. They ended 2019 with three straight losses, and then they just lost Brendan Gallagher due to a concussion, meaning they've

lost four of their top nine guys. And they're kicking off 2020 with three home games, but they're playing Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Winnipeg, so it doesn't get any easier for them. They're currently seven points out of a playoff spot. They need to get it together soon. And also, and I say this with all due respect,

they need more from Carey Price if they're going to get to the postseason. Fifteen goals allowed in his last three games, a sub-8.50, say, percentage in those games. Biz, what's up with the Canadians, buddy? I mean, I can't remember if I had them as a playoff team. I thought I had them maybe sneaking in. But just from what I'm hearing, though, they work their balls off. And as far as an effort level is concerned, Claude Julian is getting them out of that.

Oh, my God. Getting that out of them. I'm struggling right now. New tongue. What the fuck are you laughing at? I'm laughing at the fact that you just said new tongue i haven't heard that in a while it's a good one but i also how about the live show i was i was struggling a little bit off the hot oh dude how about the live show and the guy we took some questions and the

guy goes biz please do a live ad read right now and biz wouldn't do it because mikey pulled up a thing that looked like seven paragraphs but i I was, I was really, really rooting for that. It was, it was like a size two font. I would have been squinting, although I already was. Cause I did smoke before I went on stage and people probably thought I was stuttering and stuff because I was, I was a little high, but there was a slight delay in the headphones. So I was hearing what I was saying for like a split second delay. And I had to like recalibrate my brain within the first like two minutes of being on stage and were you guys noticing that too like is that my subconscious talking to me shit like you you had no clue what

was going on at the beginning what do you mean you could i could tell you were talking and then like listening to your voice you were right it was fucking with you yeah you couldn't get you couldn't i it was it was it was bothering me but i think it was mentally uh messing with you at a different i don't want to i don't want to pat myself on the back but but soon thereafter i just kind of figured it out my brain was like all right you're gonna have to deal with it we battled through it so next show let's just get some mics please you adapt biz i'll give you that those are the ones you asked for you asked for i know but i wasn't asking for

a headset with a delay in the ear you think britney spears was getting the delay say that again yeah you think britney spears had the delay when she was i bet you did i bet you did maybe if you got there early enough we could have tested the mics and you would have experienced i love it grinnelli's giving it back to me although Britney Spears is probably lip-syncing so it didn't matter whether she was saying anything in the mics no offense Britney the questions yeah we were talking about that

I think that the Habs is one team that if sustaining those types of injuries they're not going to be able to make playoffs whereas there's other they weren't that deep to begin with. They got four of their top nine forwards out now with Gallagher being gone. I said before, it's an undersized group. I thought they'd kind of be battling all year where they are now,

but seven points already, you just said, currently? Seven points back, yeah. I thought, yeah, that's as big as it's going to be able to get for them. I mean, if all of a sudden you go nine, 11 points out, and you I thought it would – yeah, that's as big as it's going to be able to get for them. I mean, if they – all of a sudden you go nine, 11 points out, and you need to go on a run, do they have the roster to maybe, you know, win like 12 of 15, which is what you'd need? I don't see that happening unless Carey Price turns into MVP Vezna Carey Price that you can't score on the brick wall.

Not like Claude Gillian's going to have a choice, but one of the criticisms I was reading online was the fact that he doesn't really trust the young guys and he has a hard time putting them out there in situations. Now, is that something that you guys experienced when he was coaching Boston? That was probably my biggest criticism of Claude when he did coach. Yeah, he relied on his veterans way too much. And I would always go back to like the Colorado avalanche of the nineties. Like those guys always threw the young kids out, threw them right into the fire. And that's how you, you know, baptism by fire.

That's how you know what you have. But Claude, he relied on his veterans. I mean, sometimes it works, but a lot of times he should have been going with some more youth. So I'm not surprised at all. That's the situation. Well, have you seen that? Cockton cock to Kenny Emmy.

Oh my God. That's a tough one. Oh, dude. Yeah. I'm saying an Emmy USA is playing Finland right now. So I'm doing this on purpose. Anikokton Koktikaniemi. Oh, my God. That's a tough one, though, dude. Koktikaniemi. USA's playing Finland right now, so I'm doing this on purpose. He, like, you haven't really seen what I thought they,

what they probably thought they would this year, but there has been times people say he doesn't play enough, and then you read, I read something like, is there a chance he could ever go to the minors to try to get some confidence back, to get some more playing time? And you wonder why he is so hesitant on using young guys in a league that is now, like, built around young guys. Well, 100%. And the fact now you got some injured guys. All right, you said it.

Put them out there. Let's see what you got. Exactly, yeah. And if you give them a long enough sample size and you look at Bergevin and you say, listen, man, I've been throwing this guy out there. But there is also something about easing them into it. And at this point, I feel like they should have been up to where they should be playing.

It shouldn't all of a sudden be like, oh, well, everyone's hurt, so now we're going to throw it. It is amazing how players can sense the body language off coaches where they don't actually have their confidence. It's easy to say now like oh okay now i'm giving you 20 minutes where were you where it's like dude you're not you don't believe in me i can sense that it's so i don't know that's a that's another thing especially for montreal like they need a youth movement because you know they they don't exactly have you know veterans that are going to be like the core group of the Boston Bruins were.

They've got to find those guys. Absolutely. We've rambled on. Before we move on, though, from Montreal, quick, because the tables have turned in terms of the Weber-Subban trade. What a season by Shea Weber right now. Absolutely. And someone that a lot of people said, ah, can he move?

Can he skate in this league anymore? Him being injured, you realize how big of a hit that was for them. So 31 points in 40 games, dude. He's continuing to do it. And I would say right now, who would you rather have? Shea Weber in a landslide.

So, R.A., I think you said you wanted to go to the... Oh, sorry, Biz. Well, I was just going to say, all those people, very, very, very vocal online, just beating that one up for months and months and months. You guys have been pretty fucking quiet about it. And if you're going to stick your neck out there with your hot takes,

especially I felt like it was almost disrespect to a guy like Shea Weber to talk about, oh, my God, we got Shea Weber for PK Subban. Like, show some fucking respect. And that just shows how much some of these guys know about the game itself. What were you going to say, Whit? A minute ago? It's unbelievable. I make fun of Cox and Yemi, and Finland scores six seconds later.

Literally. You couldn't write that up any different. And what a no-look pass to see the goal. Finland up 1-0, 15-36 left. Jesus, USA, let's go, boys. I mean, we could kind of dive into a little bit of World Juniors. That Laferniere, is that how you say it? Laferniere?

Yeah, Laferniere, Laferniere. I've heard it pronounced both. He returned to action against Slovakia, and the Canadians dummied them today. Barrett Hayton, I think he had two power play goals. So, eat my hope. Lafreniere looked great in his first game back.

That kid is a stallion. I hope the Coyotes make the playoffs, but somehow win the lottery and get them. Hey boys, we didn't mention earlier, as per usual, we got two for the price of one today. Two guests on Spit and Chicklets. A variety of guests, you'd say. First up, one of the best general managers ever,

one of the titanic names in hockey, Brian Burke. We're going to be throwing it over to him pretty soon. This was like an honor to talk to a guy. This guy's a legend around the game. He's maybe from Minnesota, but he's kind of got a Shirley Northeastern attitude. We love talking to him. We got about a half hour or so with him.

And then a few weeks back when we were at headquarters, me and Biz sat down with Roan. He's one of the employees at Bastl. He was a world-class battle rapper. He does a bunch of other stuff at Bastl. Me and Biz, it was actually Biz's idea to sit down and talk with him. I thought it was a really good interview. We're going to bring that a little bit later.

But first, I think we should send it over to Berkey now. And before we send it over to Berkey, I didn't realize you went to Harvard Law School. Yeah. Did you know that going into that interview, Witt? I did. And it's nice to hear a guy who's as opinionated as him, but he's given everything he's talking about thought,

and he has reasons behind his opinion. So a very, very respected man in the game of hockey. He's accomplished so much. And you guys are going to hear it. We're going to sit down with this guy in the future and have a couple cold ones because we could do a trilogy on this guy. Absolutely. So without further ado, Brian Barrett.

Well, our next guest is one of the most respected voices in the game. He's been the NHL's Dean of Discipline. He's run the show for a handful of NHL franchises over the last several decades. He's put together multiple iterations of Team USA. He's got his name on the Stanley Cup as the general manager of the 2007 Mighty Ducks, or the Ducks. And these days, you can hear him opine about the league on Rogers Sportsnet. It's a pleasure to welcome Brian Burke to the Spittin' Chicklets podcast. Thanks, guys. Hey, Burke. Pleasure to be here. Burke, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to welcome Brian Burke to the Spittin' Chicklets podcast. Thanks, guys.

Hey, Burke. Pleasure to be here. Burke, thank you so much. It's Whit. Thanks again for picking me for that Olympic team when Paul Martin got hurt. But my question, well, I don't, it's not even a question right off the bat.

We could talk to you for six hours. I feel like it would never end, but we only got you for 30 minutes because you're a media superstar now. You actually got to tie your tie instead of hanging it around your neck. But it's been about a year and a half since you stepped down as the president of Hockey

Operations with Calgary. How are you enjoying being on TV? I'm enjoying it, Whit. It's good. It's almost no travel, which is really important to me. And getting more time with my daughters that live here in Toronto. I like the work. I like the people I work with.

And I like the schedule. So it's been a real positive change for me. Berkey, when we have guests on, we like to go to the beginning of this story and take it from the schedule. So it's been a real positive change for me. Berkey, when we have guests on, we like to go to the beginning of this story and take it from the top. Now, you were born in Providence, but you were settled in Minnesota. How old were you when the family moved to Minnesota?

I left Providence when I was like one. We moved to Philadelphia, then to Chicago, then Boston, and then Minnesota. We moved to Minnesota when I was 12 and we stayed there. My dad was in sales and he kept getting promoted. Okay. Then, of course, you ended up going back to Providence, and you played for the legend himself, Lou Lamorello, at Providence College.

Was he a big reason why you ended up playing there? For sure. I ended up playing college hockey about 1,000 yards from where I went for the hospital where I was born. It's really, really creepy and spooky when I realized what happened. But we moved all over. If people ask me where I'm from, I say Minnesota because I lived there from when I was 12 until I went back

and played summer hockey there and worked outside there. So from 12 to 22, I was in Minnesota. That's where people ask me where I say I'm from. But you're right, I was born in Providence. Berkey, was Lou the reason why you eventually wanted to get into management after you were done playing and the career didn't necessarily maybe go where you wanted it to? No, we actually went, well, I'll tell you that story. My career didn't go the way I wanted it to because I wasn't any good.

Join the club, buddy. I didn't start playing hockey till i was 13 and i had so i become so hard and so far and so fast to catch up and i did it with hard work and toughness and being a invaluable teammate i had four rules you know be invaluable teammate be indispensable to the coach you'll never be corrected like the coach never had to say on video Burke you're out of position there I did everything right because I had to and then be the hardest worker and then play tough and you get to the pro level you guys know everyone has those same four rules and some of them are better than you so I went back to school and I was fortunate that I was able to go back to law school that's because of Lou Amarillo he made

me take the LSAT the law boards boards, when I was a senior, and I blew him away, and I got into Harvard Law School. So I deferred my admission for a year, played in the American League, won a Collar Cup, and I went back to law school. So at that time, though, you don't plan on making a career in hockey management, or you did going to law school? This was the beginning of that first step to get into the highest level a different way than playing.

I think people have stopped asking me to speak at law schools because I'd answer that truthfully. I didn't ever have a plan for anything. Wow. I didn't ever have a plan. I didn't plan to go to law school. I didn't plan to work for a team. It didn't seem possible.

You guys remember when I'm 12 years old. I'm just starting hockey. I'm just starting hockey. I just moved to Minnesota. The kids have already got eight years in. They've been playing since they were four or six years in. And you've got to catch them all and pass them. So it wasn't like I thought, well, maybe I'll play pro hockey. I just said, maybe I can pay for part of this.

If I can play college hockey, I can pay for part of my degree. And then when I got a chance to sign with the Flyers, I was like, well, maybe I can play in the NHL, but likely not. And then thinking about working for a team, it was like dreaming about being an astronaut when you were a kid. Berkey, was there anyone early on who took you under your wing on the management and hockey side of things? Because I've heard a few stories about you one from adrian a coin when things weren't working

out for for him in vancouver and you did your best to move him as fast as possible and put him in a successful situation where you know some gms will let guys sit there and rot and and wait until they get a better return or something that they might want to return. Now you seem to be a bit of a player's GM. Is that something you learned from someone else? No, I played for Lou Lamorello in college. I played for Bob McCammon in the American League. And I felt that there was very little empathy in the game back then.

You've got to remember, I'm not far from the era where they used to send guys down by pinning a train ticket to their pants. So a guy would come off. This is true. A guy would come off the ice from practice. There would be a train ticket pinned to his pants. Terry Crisp tells a great story. One year, the Bruins sent him down, and they had a farm team in Oakland, California,

and won in Oklahoma City. He wanted to go to Oklahoma City because he played with the guys there the year before. He had a place to live. And so Milt Schmidt was at GM. He said, you're going to Oklahoma or to Oakland. And Crispy says, you know, can I go to Oklahoma City? I know some guys there. My wife's comfortable there.

I have a place to stay. And so the Bruins went back and thought about it. And they said, well, here's what you do today drive as far west as you can and stop for the night and call us so that's that's what that's how it was back then and like you know even when i played the american league like some of these stories of coaching abuse and everything i could tell you coaching abuse this this was perfectly fine back in the day and we're making progress this is not i'm not being nostalgic or sentimental about it but no with adrian first off oki's a great kid you know he's a great guy uh it wasn't that easy

to trade him because he's a good player but he was really he was like you were when i had you in the olympics you were just stuck right then, right? And both great kids, and I was happy to move over and get him a place to go. So I'm not sure of the exact year, but I'm guessing 81, 82, early 80s. You graduate Harvard Law School, and what's the first step? Where do you go right after that? Well, I worked at Clark. I did a summer job as a clerk at a law firm after my first and second years and i accepted a job with the firm i clerked for uh so when i came out of my

third year i had a job lined up i went back to minnesota for a couple weeks i had a new baby what you know katie it's she was just born that summer right when i got out of school and um You know Katie. She was just born that summer, right, when I got out of school. And I went back to Minnesota for a bit and then just took the bar exam, took the bar exam, studied every day. Katie was born in the middle of that, like two weeks after graduation. So you take a three-hour course, study every day,

and then you write the bar exam the last two days of July. And then the law firms won't let you start until after Labor Day. They make you take a month off because you're going to work your tail off for the rest of your life. So I took the month off, went back to mini and started working. So I practiced for six years at two different firms. I did some corporate work. I did some industrial lending. I did some. But by the end, it was representing players almost exclusively.

So I had a bunch of good players that I represented. I enjoyed that. I represented Joel Otto and Brett Hall and Kevin Deneen and Pete Peters. So I had great success at it, but when I got a chance to go to a team, I jumped on it. Burke, you didn't just go to law school. You went to Harvard Law School. That's kind of a big deal.

I want to ask you, what was it like in Boston at that time? Did you go out to bars? What was the era like? It was such a crazy, violent time in Boston. Were you around any of that, or were you just kind of had your head in a book all those years? Well, I didn't. I mean, Harvard wasn't much fun. I went to Providence College, which is a great school, but you're going into a little different pool at Harvard with the kids you're studying and competing against.

And it wasn't much fun. It was a lot of work. I didn't socialize much the first year at all. Second year, I started playing rugby at the business school. So I ended up playing four and a half years for the Harvard Business School Rugby Football Club. Ended up being captain one year. We played in the top league in Boston. We didn't play an academic schedule. And I'm on the board of Rugby Canada today. That's my second favorite sport. So once I started playing rugby and I got married, so things got better. But it's not much fun. You're going head-to-head with people that are smarter than you

that work just as hard. It's just like being in the American League. My rules didn't help. So if you're going head-to-head with a guy who's smarter than you, you can work all you want. It's still tough. I felt like I was swimming against the current for the whole three years. Berkey, I've heard some wild stories about owners kind of stepping in the way

of trades and maybe sometimes forcing general managers' hands. Have you ever had to deal with an issue like that where maybe an owner was stopping a move you were trying to make or forcing your hand? And a follow-up question as well, what's your biggest regret as a GM as far as a guy you moved maybe a little bit too early and ended up popping off and you were like, damn it? Oh, Christ, how much time do we have for that last question?

Well, if you've got 45 minutes, we can get going here. Whenever I speak publicly, someone always asks me, what's the worst trade you ever made? And I'm like, well, how much time do we have? I mean, I've made some horrible trades. I'm serious. And you're going to. If you swing to the fence, and if you're going to make great trades,

you're going to make some bad trades, too. You can't have it both ways. If you're not going to run horrible risks to make great trades then you're not going to get burned on any deals but you're going to make mediocre or average deals your whole career you gotta man i'm gonna step back and swing at the ball guy it's a gamble i made some horrible deals but no i don't gamble but but to me like okay so we do the deal for the twins and it's turned out everyone says oh it's a great deal, sheer brilliance. But their world junior that year, they were just okay.

They played Canada in the U.S. They didn't do much. And they didn't come in the first year. They went back and played in Moto. And then they come over the first year. Danny had a good first year. But they kind of struggled for two or three years. And Nolan was saying, boy, that was sheer genius.

Now you look at their careers, and is brian burke was a genius i'm like well if i was so smart how come i drafted drafted danny ahead of pank hank's a way better player than that i didn't even get this i didn't even get the sequence right so i i've made some horrible trades i mean i traded i traded uh who did I trade? Yanni Halavich. I traded Yanni Halavich. I got him in a deal. I flipped him for American League, so it worked out okay. But I gave up like a second-round pick for Yanni Halavich, but I flipped him and got American League.

I traded Dallin Brashear to the Flyers for a third-round pick when he was one of the toughest guys in the league. No, I made some horrible deals, but you make the good ones. You remember you trade up at the draft in 93 and take Chris Pronger second overall. You trade up and take the Twins. You bring in Pronger and you have a parade.

Those are the ones everyone remembers, not the terrible ones. Absolutely. Believe me, I've made some terrible ones. And just going back to the first part of that question, had you ever had to deal with maybe an owner stepping in where there was a problem? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I forgot the first part. To me, when I went in for my job interviews, what I would say to the owners in the interview was, look, if you hire me, there's two goddamn hands on the steering wheel, and they're both mine. And if you don't want to give that much authority to a GM, let me know, and I'll help you hire the guy you want. It won't be me, but I'll help you hire a guy that can work with your parameters. So I had pretty complete autonomy with all of my owners.

I had an owner kill a deal once over money, which I think they're entitled to do. I would have put us a million over budget. And the owner said, I'm not going to tell you not to do hockey deals. And he said, do you make this hockey deal? Why don't you make the money line? I'm fine, but you have no right to spend a million bucks. It wasn't budget. And I said, you're absolutely right. But some subtle, some subtle interference for guys to say, what about this? What about that? But the minute you're taking advice from your owner on trades, you've got to move on anyway. Would you be cool with telling us who the guy was

who you're going to spend over budget for? Yeah, it was Keith Kachuk. Oh, get the fuck. He comes on the podcast all the time. What a player. Yeah. My first year in Anaheim. We might have won two cups in Anaheim.

Well, that's exactly where I was going, because you brought up Chris Pronger, one of my idols growing up. You had him in Hartford, and then when you got to Anaheim, did you figure, listen, you had your eyes set on him pretty early? Or no? We had a meeting. We went to the conference finals, right? And so Scott Nienermeyer was our captain.

Tame was first year back. He had 48 goals. And we had a really good team. And it was a Brian Burke team. It was ugly and skilled. It was a mean team. You know, really business. He would have loved playing for me.

I mean, Jesus Christ. So it was like, you know, top six are, you know, like best in show. And bottom six are working on a chain gang somewhere. It's kind of how the team was split. And so to me, we had a chance to get – we had a meeting after – so we went to the conference finals. Sorry, I'm skipping a step. We lost to Edmonton in the conference finals.

They went on and lost in the Stanley Cup finals. And he dominated. And we had a better team than them. We could have beaten Edmonton. I don't know if we could have beat Tampa Bay, but I think we could have beat Edmonton. And we had a better team than them. We could have beaten Edmonton. I don't know if we could have beat Tampa Bay, but I think we could have beat Edmonton. And we had a meeting afterwards, and J.S. Shigeru was our goalie, and he was brilliant.

And so we were like, okay, are we legit? So this was me and Randy Carlisle and Bob Murray and assistant coaches and Kevin Dineen, who was our American League coach. And we're like, are we legit? Or did we just ride a hot goalie to the conference finals? And we're all like, no, man, we're like, are we legit? Or do we just ride a hot goalie to the conference finals? And we're all like, no, man, we're legit. We're legit skill-wise, and we're legit, you know, the Brian Burke-style play. We can run anyone out of any building.

We can beat teams up. We can exploit our size differential. We are legit. And I said, all right, then what do we need? And they're all like, Chris Pronger. I'm like, well, that'll be easy. No one else wants him. So we go to the draft, and Edmonton had talked to a bunch of teams,

and they came around, and they dropped a proposal on four tables, Austin and three other teams. And they dropped a proposal and said it's first-round pick, Joffrey Lupo and Laddie Smeed. Now, Joffrey Lupo had been our best forward that year in the playoffs. She's an Edmonton kid, and they played really well for me. Joffrey Lupo and Laddie Smead. Now, Joffrey Lupo had been our best forward that year in the playoffs. He's an Edmonton kid, and he played really well for me. And Laddie Smead's a great kid, a wonderful young Czech defenseman who was a top prospect then.

And I said on the spot, I walked over to Edmonton's table, we'll do it. And the league wouldn't let us do it because we had a tagging room issue. There was a salary cap issue. So Kevin Lowe and I did it a week, you know, like four days later after the draft. We solved the tagging room issue there was a salary cap issue so kevin lowe and i did it a week you know like four days later after the draft we solved the tagging room issue um but that was right then we started talking about because you guys know you played you never talk about winning the stanley cup it's not done you don't talk about it till you're you're in the playoffs and there's things in front of you we started talking about it in training camp we're like guys look around this room

you think you're ever going to be in a room with a group of guys that has a better chance to win a cup than this group? Guess again. Yep. Well, so that team is so incredible to think about. And the Paulson, Niedermeyer, Travis, Mone line, oh, my God. But I want to ask about when Getzlaff and Perry came in because their junior year in 04-05, they finished,

they played the playoffs in the AHL. And the they finished, played the playoffs in the AHL, and the next year, the rookie year in the NHL. They also were in Portland a little bit early in that season. And at some point, did you guys just figure, all right, listen, these are next level, going to be future superstars, and we've got to get them up and playing a lot? No, I'll tell you exactly what happened because the truth should be known about this. I didn't like our dressing

room that first year and sergey fedorov was a great player he's a hockey all-famer and deserves it but he was not into our team at that time he spent a lot of time in la and just we just had wrong leadership group we had we had the wrong group in the room and i called in cory perry and ryan gets left and i said I'm about to do the most unfair thing I've ever done in management and that's I'm sending you both down you cannot learn at the knee of a guy who's not focused on our team you cannot learn at the knee of a guy who is in who's winning games for us is not his top priority so I sent them down and I said you got to respect this league you should tear it up if you play hard

and I will bring you back once I get rid of this guy so I traded them sent them down they tore it up and I brought them back and the best part about their first year is at the end of the year we lose to Edmonton and Kevin Dineen had the Portland Pirates in the Caller Cup Conference Finals as well. We made them go to Hershey. I know. Go to Hershey and play game seven. And Penner, I think. You sent two.

I might have sent Penner. Yeah, I think I did. But for sure the other two. Berkey, I think it's fair to point out that you say, hey, guys, go down and dominate. Well, Getzlaff and Perry played 17 and 19 games respectively. They had 33 and 34 points. So it was that dominant

where, all right, Berkey, you've got to bring us back now. Yeah, well, I had to get someone out of that room first. And I think the reason Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaff have had such great careers is because I've set that stage for them. Where they came back to, the voices

they were listening to were Scott Niedermeyer and Taimou, not Sergey. And again, Sergey's a nice enough guy, and he's a great player. I'm not trying to start a rock fight with him, but he was not into what we were doing right then. We needed a new voice. Perky, I want to go back to Hartford for a sec. You were general manager, then you became team president, but less than two months later, you end up leaving.

You take a job with the NHL front office. Was that due to the ownership and arena situation in Hartford, or was it a better job, frankly? No, no. It was about me. Richard Gordon was the owner. Good guy, but we did not see eye to eye on much. And that was...

I took the job with the league probably about an hour before I would have got canned there. We had a big fight. Richard and I had a big argument. He's a nice guy. When my son passed away, Richard came up for the funeral from Hartford. Good guy, but real different view on how to play.

Now, that team was my toughest team. That team could have beat that Anaheim team out in the alley in about five minutes. Yeah, a few years difference. Then I went to the league, and I've been lucky. I've had three great guys that I've worked for, mentor-type people that really taught me a lot. And Gary Bettman

was the third of those. And I played for Lou Amorello, who was just a wonderful, wonderful man. And then I worked for Pat Quinn, who's one of the finest people that ever walked on this planet. But then I got to work with Gary, and Gary is so smart and such a good guy. It makes me sick how his image is so poor in Canada, and he's done so much for the game, and he's so bright and so tough. So I've been really lucky. I got molded by some really, really top sculptors.

I wanted to get to Bedman in a couple minutes, but I want to ask you first, how thankless is it being the chief disciplinarian for the league? Well, you're stupid several times a day, and in Montreal, you're stupid twice. You're stupid in French and English. Most of the guys are good. Like

Lou Lamorello, if you call up Lou and say, I'm suspending this guy, Lou would say, fine. That's it. Same way I was. So when Coley suspended a guy on my team, I'd be like, you're not going to hear a word out of us. I had a little different view, though, because I would say to the league, we don't need suspensions here in Anaheim.

We'll look after our guys. You guys do whatever you want with the rest of the league. You don't have to protect my team because my guys will protect my team. So don't worry about us. You can just pretend we're not here. And if you watch, we looked after our own guys. We didn't call and complain to the league. We didn't send in tapes.

We're like, guys, someone in here fixed this. We're not calling New York. Somebody fixed this. You saw what happened. I shouldn't have to come in this room and tell you. But it is a thankless job. The two hardest guys on me were pat quinn my old boss who i love he was really brutal when i suspended players he would just give it to me and pierre lacroix was bad too so the the best one with pierre lacroix was i did a playoff game in philly edmonton and dallas

were playing in edmonton and peter Peter Forsberg was standing in the crease, and he's trying to jam in a puck to get the goalie out, and Billy Guerin is to his right. So you guys envision this. Peter Forsberg's the left shot. Billy's to his right. He's the right shot, and he's across his body, chops him, chops Peter Forsberg on the bicep, just like you're supposed to do, right?

Disrupt the shot. But because he's the right shot going across his body, the tip of the stick clips Peter Forsberg in the bicep, just like you're supposed to do, right? Disrupt the shot. But because he's a right shot going across his body, the tip of the stick clips Peter Forsberg in the cheek. So you've got like nine stitches or ten stitches, right? And my deal I have with the NHLPA is anything less than ten stitches is a shaving cut anyway. So it's no big deal. Pierre Lacroix calls me. I'm driving on the New Jersey turnpike, driving back from the flyers playoff game don koharski referee he was excellent phone rings it's worse than the kennedy

assassination what who is this and he goes peter for billy garrett just tried to behead peter forestberg my father pete says nickname with us was Father Pete. So Father Pete, calm down, calm down. What happened? He said he just slashed him viciously in the face. So I said, look, I'm going back to the office. I'll take a look at it. I'll call you back. So Bettman calls me three minutes later and says, what happened in Evans? I said, Gary, I was in Philly tonight. I'm on the New Jersey Turnpike. I don't know what happened. said well it sounds bad so i called dave monas i said tell me we taped that game so you guys are gonna laugh we had four vcrs at the league office we could record four games the runtime was two hours and 15 minutes so we'd start them out like 720 because you'd never have

a suspension in the first 10 minutes, right? And we just hope if the game went into overtime or the glass broke or something, we wouldn't get the end of the game. So I called Dave and I said, he's coming back from a game on the island. I said, tell me we taped that game. He said, oh, we taped four. He said, pick four games out of some nights or eight games. He said, yeah, I think we taped it.

I said, tell me this happened at the end of the game. I hope we got it. So we get back and we see what happened. And I called Father Pete and I said, I'm not suspending him for that. Are you nuts? And he went nuts, screaming, I'm going to get your job. Your days are numbered at the league. And a lot of pressure on in the playoffs.

But, yeah, thankless job. I think it's a little easier for George Peros now because with the videos they issue and everything, I think there's a clearer understanding what the standards are in the different areas. Years later, you're on the other side, and you're the guy that's then talking to the agent. Do you ever remember thinking, you know what? Something a GM did that drove me nuts that I'll never do when I'm dealing with guys is this. Was there anything that you were like, God, I'll never do that to an agent when I'm talking to him? Yeah, there was, but I ended up doing it to all of them. The guy that was the most infuriating to deal with was Bill Torrey. Now, Bill Torrey was a gentleman through and through, a very bright man, very educated, polished.

The bow tie, right? Rarely swore. Yeah, rarely swore. But he would just say no to whatever he put in front of him. I said, Bill, you're the only guy I know who can say no in 22 languages. How about saying yes to some of this? And he would just say no in 22 languages how about saying yes to some of this and you would just say no and so what we what we did and this is my advice to anyone that's young getting in the agent business or the management business if you want to make a deal with a player 99 of whether you're able to

do that or not it's going to hinge on the first offer so we almost approach it like an arbitration case we want to come in with an offer that's right in the ballpark maybe a little wiggle room for the agent to get his fee but then we're not moving so we'd say okay we've researched this uh wit we think uh you're worth say two million dollars but we're going to offer two million other teams would offer one six and make you drag it up right we're going to offer you the two million and then we're not moving so agents get frustrated with me and they'd be like you know it up, right? We're going to offer you the $2 million, and then we're not moving. So agents would get frustrated with me, and they'd be like,

you know, it's August, and you haven't moved a dime. I'm like, go look at the comparables. We did all the work on this. This player, Ryan Whitney, is worth $2 million. That's it. We're not moving. So to me, the best chance you have of making a deal is making sure that there's no screwing around with your first offer. Just get it out on the table.

Well, there's no sense in making the player work for money that he's entitled to. So if I'm at 1.6 and you've got to negotiate all summer to get to 1.8 when you're worth 2, how's that going to leave us when we're done? You're going to be sour. I'm going to be sick of the process. It's going to start our training camp wrong. Just be fair right out of the gate. But then if the player gets greedy, just say no.

Greg, we just mentioned Gary Bettman a few minutes ago. Do you think he gets a bad rap from the fans on both sides of the border? Yeah, for sure he does, and it's a shame. He's done more for this game than you count all the people eagleson good now all the clarence campbell johnson all these people that helped build this game gary's done more than all of them combined like he's turned this into a massive industry it was a mom and pop industry remember my first year you guys you guys weren't even born yet my first year in vancouver 87 88 at the end of the year we we had a meeting and we were

trying to decide whether to raise the lower bowl tickets from 28 bucks a seat to 29 bucks a seat or 30 bucks a seat, lower bowl, reds, great seats. And then that's in my lifetime. That's a team I worked for. That's not some allegorical story about the sixties. That's a team I worked for. And so I look where gary's taking us with tv and international and just what we do on the charity side and just the way the game has grown with expansion and outdoor gaming we're gonna have another outdoor game on on wednesday it'll be fantastic yeah we're here berkey i think he gets a bedrock we're actually in dallas right now we're here for that so nice yeah we're gonna hopefully we can get up to toronto and get you live in person now if there is one critique though that you you would have as far

as what the league should change and where they should go what would it be right now well i don't like the way we're going on on uh there's too much flag football right now the game is fast and exciting and good but we need to keep the banging and fighting in this game. And I know that's not going to bother either of you two. That's number one. And number two, we play too many games. We should go to a 72-game schedule. The players play too many games, and the product suffers. Well, now you're on the media side of things.

How much do you think the media plays in the fact that the game keeps altering to maybe their voice? I thought there was a time. I think that's an excellent question. I think there was a time when that was a driving factor, and I don't think it is now. I think a lot of it's the concussion stuff. A lot of it's that the game is getting better and faster.

And I do love the game the way it's played, but a lot of nights, especially I got to watch Toronto, I see a lot of flag football. I think they've had one fighting major in Toronto this year. And the way my team's played, you know, and I know we're not going to go back to that era. I'm not suggesting that. I'm not a dinosaur.

But I can't stand it some nights. They don't even swear at each other some nights. It's embarrassing. They don't even talk. Berkey, I. It's embarrassing. They don't even talk. Berkey, I've got to ask you this before we let you go. One of the all-time classic post-game scrums, 2002 playoffs against the Red Wigs, when he said,

Sadeen is not English for punch me or headlock me in a scrum. How bad was the abuse for those guys early in their career, especially in that series? Well, it was really bad, and I didn't have the toughness around them yet. We got tougher. In that series, we couldn't employ our toughness properly. It was not a problem for them after the first year and a half or so because we had people come in that could take care of stuff like that.

But early on in Detroit, it was all our guys. Even the guys who weren't tough were doing it. And we were up 2-0 in that series. We went into Detroit and won the first two games, then came home, and my owner was really upset about the efficiency. We told our players back then, look, we're going to have to kill an extra penalty every night. This is Detroit.

They're a great team. The referees love them. We're going to have to kill an extra penalty every night. We did. So now my owner comes to have to kill an extra penalty every night. We did. So now my owner comes to me, we're up 2-0. He says, I want you to rip the officials. And I said, I'm not ripping the officials. We're up 2-0.

And then we lost that game. Danny Cloutier let in that long goal from Lindstrom. And then we lose game four. And then I ripped the referees. So I got fined $30,000 for that. That was a long time ago. Oh, gee. You were there during the Bertuzzi stuff, correct?

Yep. I mean, that was, I mean, do you want to talk about that a little bit or is it too sensitive a subject? Well, I will interrupt a little quickly, Bert. I'm close friends with Todd Bertuzzi. Before we go into maybe the incident, how dominant was that guy for a couple,

for a few year stretch? I mean, one of the best in stretch i mean one of the best in the league one of the best in the league yeah and a very popular teammate this is not a guy that that just you know came and went and did his thing he was popular with his teammates he was involved with the team he was a leader um i loved having him and i that's why i brought him to anaheim after that i mean i loved having Todd on the team. Now, there's nothing that's too sensitive to talk about because this has been resolved.

I mean, Todd did what he did was wrong. No question about it. But he thought, misguidedly, I'm sticking up for a teammate. So Steve Moore, cheap shot at Nazlin in game one. There's actually three games in this sequence. And in game two, we played in Colorado, played an overtime tie. No one went after anybody. Game three, Matt Cook fought Steve Moore early in the game,

but the players felt that Steve Moore had jumped cookie. So they didn't think he paid his tab. So Sean Pronger came off the bench. He was playing center for us then and he went after steve moore burke is coming topper tuesday he's coming back up the ice sees us and now he starts tapping steve moore and chasing behind him and finally gets tired of that he won't turn around and he suckers him i mean nothing you can defend there but he was doing it to defend his dear friend and line mate marcus nathan excuse, but that was his intent.

And we're screaming at him. No, no, we can see what's happening. We're up there screaming at him. His line was changing. That's why Sean Pronger was on the ice instead of Brendan Morrison. We didn't want Todd Bertuzzi to go after Steve Moore. Fuck. Obviously, the rest is history.

To transition it to another question, I don't know the backstory behind the whole tie thing. What's going on? How did that all start? Yeah, well, people have accused me of trying to make a fashion statement. I tell them all the same thing. I'm not smart enough to do that. So I used to go to work.

When I worked for Pac-Man, our theory was that we would be open for business when the Boston Bruins were open for business. That's 9 a.m., 6 a.m. in Vancouver. So I would go in at 6, and I'd go in in jeans and a T-shirt, and I left all my suits at work. Pat would come in around 7. We'd spend whatever time he needed, you know, tell me what to do,

and I'd bring him up to speed on this contract, and then I'd go down and work out. And then I'd run up. I'd put on a suit and come up. Well, I never tied my tie until I went upstairs. And then I didn't tie it until I needed to. Some nights it was right until game time. I wouldn't tie it all day. So it was more laziness than anything.

And then now I hate tying it. So I wear it like that. Plus now it aggravates people. Yeah, I was going to say that was probably part of it too. People keep commenting. But you know what? Fuck you. I'm not going to tie my tie. I'm going to leave it that that. Plus, now it aggravates people. Yeah, I was going to say that was probably part of it, too. People keep commenting, but you know what? Fuck you. I'm not going to time my time. I'm going to leave it at that forever.

Yeah. Yeah. So once I realized it annoyed people, then I really started making sure I did it. Burke, I feel like we could talk to you for hours, but there was one thing I did want to bring up with you. You've been instrumental in the You Can Play project that you launched with your son Patrick to combat homophobia in sports. It's about seven and a half years in now.

How much progress have you seen been made in this area? Well, I think it's a come a lot to answer your question. Thank you for bringing it up. Patrick did way more of the work on this than I did. And, and Katie and, and Molly have been helpful too,

but I think I don't measure. You can play as a standalone thing and say, okay, we've changed this many lives. We've changed lots of lives, but there's been progress made on lots of fronts. There's lots of people fighting this battle right now. It's wonderful to watch. So it's much, as I told Brendan when he came out to me, it's much better being a young gay male in this day and age than when i was in high school so my high school there were 3 000 kids in three classes all right massively dinah high

school three grades 10 11 12 000 kids in each grade no gay people and i'm like brennan of course there were gay people they just you took your life in your hands if you came out back then so the progress has been made. We're not close to anything like equality or fairness or acceptance. But the progress that I've witnessed just in the last 10 years has really brightened my outlook on where we might get to someday. But it's been a little dangerous right turn in this U.S. too, the last little bit that makes me nervous. Well, I really appreciate you coming on, Burke. We've already taken up too much of your

time, and maybe we can get together in person sometime because that would be a great talk. Let's do it. We appreciate you very much for coming on, and everyone get a chance in Canada. You can watch them on Sportsnet, HockeyNet in Canada, and continue the good work, and we'll see you soon. Thanks, guys. Let's say a giant thank you to Brian Burke for joining us kind of spur of the moment he made

some time for us and like you guys said we could have talked to him for hours we barely scratched the surface of his gigantic resume so huge thanks to Berkey once again uh Biz I've been seeing some my little kerfuffle on social media Bennington and Bieber might be doing a little shootout action what's going on there brother I think all after all these clips of Bieber playing with the Leafs and scoring some goals over the holiday, I believe in one of the pickup games, Bieber had 13 goals, just humble bragging all over social. Were they Putin goals or were they like legit goals?

I think they were Putin goals, yeah. That's some funny stuff, R.A. But then Ben Nasty came in on social challenging Bieber to, I think he said he'd give him 10 breakaways and he wouldn't score one. And he said he would dye his hair platinum blonde if he got one on him. And Bieber responded by saying, let's up the ante $10,000 to my charity of choice if I end up squeaking one by you. So I'm all over this. I'm

hoping that we can get our hands on the video. I'm not going to say the fucking word. When you saw this, I feel like you got as hard as you could possibly get. This is your dream, basically, to be involved in this. Yeah. I feel like I popped a 20 milligram of Cialis, and I've had a hard on ever since so i've been working on the back side here i've been texting with austin matthews being like give me bieber's number and uh that ain't half i've been getting ghosted shockingly uh but uh no i think it would be fun to see that and i think they should do it in st louis because i don't know if i've told you guys yet do you think he'd a goal? So he's not the best of skaters.

He's struggling. He's a bit of an ankle skater, but he does have good hands from what I've seen. But that could be because he's getting the Putin treatment. No one's coming out with aggressive poke checks. Got to get body charcoal in there. We'll see if we can get a hold of these guys and dial it in. I even messaged Bennington saying we would pay for the charity donation on his behalf if we were able to film this.

So we'll see where it goes. I'll be playing in an alumni game in St. Louis. Wow. First time I'm lacing them back up to playing an organized game since I've retired. So we're going from the San Jose Barracuda, me fighting uh stortini looking like beaver on on skates out there skating on my ankles um and i'll be kelly chase been talking some mad shit he wants to fight you i think i think he wants to scrap savage i don't think you'd want to tilt him right

now i won't even take any skating lessons beforehand i'm gonna just go right to the gym and start boxing so we can move on from the Bieber stuff. Although, going to the dye hair job, have you guys seen the Rinaldo and Lucic with their platinum blonde hair out there skating in warm-ups? Yeah, they look like the natural Butch Reed out there.

He was an old school black wrestler with blonde hair, so he called himself the natural as if his blonde hair was natural. All-time WWF nickname. All right. For all you WWE fans, you'll probably love that. I think it looks great. The picture you sent, Pace Bernardo, looks terrifying.

Oh, seriously. A couple quick notes. Marc-Andre Fleury further solidified his Hockey Hall of Fame resume on New Year's Eve when he passed Curtis Joseph on the all-time wins list for NHL goalies. The Flower is now number five with 455 wins, and he may well catch number four, Henrik Lundqvist's 458 before the season ends. And you know, Penns fans might be sweating things out a bit as well. They lost Jake, so they're going to want to make sure they have some dude wipes on hands.

As dudes, especially us hockey dudes, let's face it, we are stanky, disgusting humans. So check out the Dude brand for all your hygiene needs on and off the ice. Dude, as seen on Shark Tank, are the creators of the infamous Dude Wipes, the first flushable wipes for guys for at-home or on-the-go situations. They also offer a full range of other products to keep you fresh from head to toe. Dude Ball Powder, Dude Shower Wipes, Dude deodorant spray for your body or nasty hockey bag, and brand new Dude underwear performance boxer briefs. Whether you're playing professionally in a men's league

or you hung up the skates ages ago and you're stuck in the cube, Dude has something to offer all Dudes for their daily hygiene routine. You can find Dude in major U.S. retailers nationwide like Walmart, Kroger, or Amazon.com. And if you're up in Canada, Dude is available on Amazon.ca and in sports check stores. Or you can just go to DudeProducts.com for a special check let's offer and use the promo code Hockey20 for 20% off your entire order. Once again, go to DudeProdu.com hockey 20 for 20% off your entire order. Hopefully you folks are checking that stuff out. Now we're going to send it over to our boy.

Ron, like we said, biz, this is something a little off the beaten path. It's not a hockey interview, but Ron is definitely one of the more interesting fellows at Barstool. Well, so hopefully you'll get a listen.

So I'm going to send it over to Ron. Well, folks, Ryan Whitney's not in town. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet, anyway. We didn't have any hockey guests to get on. And I thought, me and R.A., why don't we interview one of the interesting barstool personalities? Fantastic idea.

And we got Ron here. I wish I could tell you more, but I really don't know much about him. But that's why he's going to be let's find out yes let's find and that's his voice right there do you have anything to say

to the chick that's faithful I'm happy to be here I love your I like your podcast more than I like hockey like I'm not even a big watcher of hockey but I listen to your guys show because it's just such a good show

such a funny show that's our second favorite compliment like after like you know you guys changed my life that's like yeah we have some people who have been going through some dark times and they come up and tell you such a funny show. That's our second favorite compliment. Like, after, like, you know, you guys changed my life. That's, like, the biggest one. Yeah, we have some people who have been going through

some dark times, and they come up and tell you, but that is awesome. Can I change my answer? No. No, no. I was going through depression, and, dude, you guys helped me

through some of the worst times in my life, so thank you for that. No, when people say that, it's huge, because it's like, dude, I couldn't imagine listening to a fucking podcast

for a sport I don't give a fuck about, so when people say that, it's like, wow, man, it's humbling. It's a great compliment. Very humbling. And as well as your compliment was, but we're here to talk about you. Interesting. And one of the interesting things already about this guy is he battle raps.

I would say that's what he's known for. I mean, coming to Basto. I mean, you've been at Basto three years, you said, right? Right. We're on, what, December 19 right now. You're, what, 31 years old, so you got in here at 28. How long were you a battle rap for? How did you get into it?

Give us a little background. My first battle rap was on my 21st birthday. It was scheduled to be on my 21st birthday up here in New York, and I had never really battle rapped before. I never even wanted to be a battle rapper. You'd think this would be something you get into at 18, 16, young. I wasn't even a rap fan. I was listening to John Mayer and shit like that. I was listening to soft-ass music.

I like John Mayer. So how does it – what triggers it? How does it – okay, where does it start? Where's the origin of it? I went on the internet. It was probably 2006 or – yeah, I was a freshman in college at Penn State. And I just searched every fight that I could find on YouTube, watched all the fights on YouTube, exhausted them. Then I was like, what other combative things can satisfy my 18-year-old little horny mind?

And I just typed in rap battle. Dead out of nowhere, just started watching rap battles on YouTube, fell in love with watching them. And then this famous rapper came to Penn State. And I had a battle with him backstage. It was on Worldstar Hip Hop the next day. 2006, 2007 numbers. It's like 700,000 views. And it was like. Did you maul him?

Yeah. I guess I'm going to rap now. Whoa. It just came out of nowhere. So I watch all of them. I watch the cyphers. I love rap. I keep up with all the drama too.

I don't talk about it publicly, but I, of course, I tell all my closest friends, one of my biggest dreams, I'd love to be a rapper. And I think that I could eventually maybe write lyrics and maybe get some beats and play around with it,

but that's a whole nother set of balls. And that's why I tip of my cap to you, bro. That is balls. Well, so how battle rapping works is like you're in a silent room with like 300 to like 3,000 people just standing around you as you hurl insults at the person. It's not even a beat on in the background. it's not even a beat on in the background. You prepare your lines, you write it beforehand, and you just stand across from someone and try to insult them until they punch you in the face.

And they do the same to you. Has that ever happened? I mean, I always say, how is someone not getting suckered during these things? Is that implied that no one's going to get punched here during a battle rap? Let's ask, what percentage of these lead to violence? I think it's a really low percentage.

I put it at 1% or less than 1% of the battles. That's crazy. So they respect the process. Like, look, you know, I mean, there are parameters set like don't go here on this guy or don't go here on that guy

or like, no, you go on that guy because you know it's going to fucking hurt him. I used to ask the guys beforehand, I'd be like, how are we doing this? Is there anything you don't want me to talk about? And most of the time, the answer is take the gloves off. And it's like, all right, that I will that i will do oh man and then i wind up saying some really mean stuff to these guys just like is there anything that anyone said to you that is like oh

my god like how did they get that information well i mean it's not it's never i mean for me it hasn't been real information i don't have that that much actual real dirt on me. But since I did go to Penn State, they turned it into this huge angle that I got fucked by Jerry Sandusky specifically. And for about 20 battles, people would go into specifics about how this happened to me. It didn't happen to me. I would be a fucking millionaire if it did because I'd be getting that fucking payment money. So because of the initial comment, people actually thought that that guy had dug that up on you and it was it was factual the way that he presented it was so believable that the world afterwards like people in england i was like going to england like overseas to australia who's touched by that penn state fellow right they

really are dead ass but they thought he was like a track coach or whatever they thought he was my track coach who molested me. It's crazy. Did it bug you that this narrative was out or were you able to laugh about it because it was so clever that he made it believable and it became this thing where you're like, yeah, I mean, it's funny, but it didn't happen. So the first time I got tight about it because I was like, what the fuck? Because I had talked to the guy beforehand about the battle.

I was like, bro, let's keep it like nothing personal no made-up stories because i thought that he might talk about that shit i was like whoa you have to establish no made-up stories well i because i thought that this fucking i i knew he knew about this like fan theory or some shit and someone had tried to sabotage me online like photoshopping my face onto this shit it goes so fucking deep but the first time like i got tight and like my face like i was hung over to begin with and then my face kind of soured and uh and like everybody in the comments is like dude look at how his face changed it's definitely real like they took me being pissed off about it as an admission of me having internet sleuths right

they were on my ass like jerry sandusky. But after that, it's almost just like, are we seriously really talking about this fake thing? I can laugh at it, or I automatically deduct points in my mind from the other person. If they're saying that, it's not creative. It's not true. There's probably mean, true stuff that you could find. Yeah, I mean, honestly, if you fucking follow the case at all, he didn't fuck Penn State students. It was a charity that he fucking used to fucking specifically fucking get kids for. Would traditionalists be like, why the fuck are you even asking if you can go there on anything?

Like it should be gloves off. Would people argue about maybe the rules or this culture? Would they argue about the rules of it? I think that you know these guys who you're battling against so intimately. It's like going on a hockey trip with your squad and you know that these guys are all going to be in the same hotel. You're going to be hanging out after the event, partying together. You're spending time together. So you have more personal relationships rather than it just being this person from across the world that you don't know shit about.

If I don't know shit about the guy, I'm not going to ask him. But if I know the person decently well, I'll say like, what are the rules of engagement here? Okay. I got a question for you because we could have, I guess, some undercover, what do you call it? Rap battle people who know everything about this. Right.

I know who the Michael Jordan. I know Rone. That's my, the extent of that, an eight mile. That's the extent of my rap battle. Who's the Michael Jordan of underground rap battle? His name's Roan. Oh, you're like number one? I don't know if I'm like the Michael Jordan.

I might be like the Larry Bird, though. That's even better. For you, all right. Yeah, you know what I mean? But I won championships. There's different leagues. And the one league is primarily out of Toronto. It's called King of the Dot, like T-Dot.

And that's the league that I like dominated. I won like two championship chains there. But like there's definitely been stretches of my career where people have said that I'm like, you know, like I'm one of the best in the world for sure. Wow. How many do you do nowadays? How often do you do them? Didn't you take like a long time off? It was a hiatus, maybe like two years of a hiatus.

So I had two title matches in a row that I won. Then I lost the belt, the title, the chain on the third one. Did you think you deserved to lose that one? I mean, it's interesting with rap battles because it's so subjective of an art that you can kind of tell beforehand when people want to see there be a change of power. And I kind of felt that. So it was like I felt like I executed, I acquitted myself well, but at the same time, like it was time for someone else to come in there, which I was okay with because I had this whole barstool situation to come back to.

It's like boxing in a way, man. You got a judge who has a predisposition or he's from Nevada and on the take, then it can affect everything. Wow, that's interesting. So you would have no problem communicating that to the guy you faced off against with being like, hey, I thought I had you there, but hey, whatever, it's all good. He said it to me. He thought that you outperformed him.

He's a guy from Harlem, a guy named Head Ice. He's like a legend, but after the battle, it's kind of been a tradition that I've been a part of. You kind of have a drink with the guy that you just battled. You know what I mean? After a title match, you kind of share a drink and talk about it. And he kind of expressed to me like, yeah, I could see how they would have given it to you in that situation. And it was just like an intimate conversation between the two of us.

And like, he knew what the situation was as well. And like, he's what the situation was as well and like he is uh he's famous for his authenticity he's like a real street dude and he talks about street shit in a beautiful poetic way which is very different than what i do but he's incredible yes exactly he's very similar to that but he's like he's a harlem dude so uh as opposed to a queens guy but he's like a legend for that so So I'm just a different, it's just a different flavor. You know what I mean? It's what flavor do you prefer?

It's subjective. I would imagine you're doing this for the love of it. But. Not a lot of cash in it. For the very, very top people, there's like, maybe they'll be making like fucking

40,000 for one battle. You know what I mean? And you do like maybe two. Wow, they sell tickets to this and people want to go? Tickets, people go. There's pay-per-views that people are doing for this stuff but it's like you're not going to do like 10 40 000 battles in a year you'll maybe do one of those in a year because creatively you can't you can't produce that much right i'm sorry it takes time that's

another another aspect i wanted to go through your like training routine it's like you're you are a boxer i am yeah i yeah. It's like mental boxing, but I am just thinking about this man. It's like I'm writing an ode, but the opposite of that. I'm just writing something really nasty. A joke. Exactly.

Every little thing I can think of about this dude, I'm like, how can I flip that into something bad? So I'm categorizing all these interactions I've ever had with him in my life. You're a sick puppy. That is fucked up, isn't that? But it's like, I only do it with the people who want it to happen to them. It reminds me of glorified school, you know, when you're on the street corner,

like ranking, I mean, growing up in a city, you always had every kid in the, that's how you got shop, you know, fucking ranking on each other. But it's like an elevated form of that, you know? Yes, or like if you want someone to fight with you, if you're trying to instigate someone, like the kind of shit that you would say to them, it's just like, if you just thought about that and turned it into like these beautiful

poems like what kind of shit would you say to get under someone's skin to try and like what's gonna bother someone what's gonna make everybody else look at them differently when you started getting into it how long till you found your rhythm and where you thought you sounded the coolest because one thing that i would struggle with if i ever got you know sacked up and tried something you got to find your flow yeah yeah and sometimes like the first time i did it like i i because one thing that I would struggle with if I ever got you know sacked up and tried something you got to find your flow yeah yeah and sometimes like the first time I did it like I did it way different in the ring than like all my friends afterwards were like whoa dude that's not how you practiced it like that was pretty cool like it came out natural it just came out naturally

but more aggressive than I had ever practiced it or whatever because it's just the heat of the moment it's brought yeah just brought it brought out the best there's people surrounding you it's like a grade school type schooly, it just brought out the best in you. There's people surrounding you. It's like a grade school type schoolyard fight where everybody's on top of you and just like rooting, talking shit. But that could also bring bad nerves out of you where you sounded worse, right?

Because the nerves took over. And in your sense, it kind of jacked you up where it made you say it with more passion. Right. And people have like thrown up during their rap battles. Like the anxiety is for sure real for a lot of people. And we talked about that. I said, I had a talk at a wedding this summer.

Right. And the whole day, even the day before, I had those butterflies, and I just wanted to fucking go there and have a few cocktails and smoke a few joints and bring home one of the fucking bridesmaids. I didn't want to have to worry about a speech. couldn't i couldn't say no so i did it and and i was fucking nervous it ruined the day did it make did you could you enjoy the wedding and no and and we even said and

you're also in a room and people who want you to succeed and they're probably gonna clap no matter how bad you were you're all but you're in a fucking rap battle where majority of the audience wants to see you land flat on your face. Yes. And they're looking any chance to go, oh. They want some dirt to be dug up on me, too. They want to hear something mean about me. Yeah, they want to hear that the other guy bent your mom over. And they get that.

You know what I mean? They definitely say all that shit to you. I told you not to say that. Please. Please stop fucking my opponents. Do you do anything before you hit your forehand? Smoke, drink, or anything? Do you go on completely sober?

So I enjoy smoking weed from time to time. But before a rap battle, I don't. I try not to. I'll have a drink or two just to calm the nerves. But for smoking, I don't have that focus. And also, I don't have that killer instinct where I want to be in somebody's face. You know what I mean? I kind of want to be on their ass and just like screaming down their throat.

And I don't want these feelings of butterflies and peace and love floating through my mind. That's not me at that time. I need to be on edge. You know what I mean? I need to be revved up. But I've tried it all. What alcohol? What alcohol?

Whatever they got, bro. It's whatever's local you know what i mean maybe you had the you were like the superstitious guy no no it's just like these places are fucking bummy as hell you're not making that much money you take whatever you can get you're pretty well known in the rap community uh your buddies with like john mayer uh get the fuck out of here really so we don't like a bachelor party with him you know what i mean i was like this one's some residual kills. Sorry, G, finish the question.

Who's the coolest person that this battle rap lifestyle has led you to meet and hang out with at least? I mean, John Mayer was incredible. Dave Chappelle, through that same bachelor party, we kind of spent the night with him. Whose bachelor party was it this guy named jensen carp he was the executive producer of this uh show that i wrote on in california that where celebrities battle wrapped each other but he's also like a pretty good friend of mine and so he's friends with all these he's like a hollywood fucking you know legend in hollywood he's like an executive producer and he just is a pal of mine it's interesting because you're in a room with these people who are at the top of their games right yeah yeah and you are at the top of yours so they probably appreciate you just as much as you appreciate them the only difference being is that your industry is just not that

lucrative yeah it's just not that popping unless you can transfer that over to writing your own songs and have you ever tried that i've written music i've i've written my own music and i've tried like the ghostwriting thing like i've written i i've i've written my own music and i've tried like the ghostwriting thing like i've written i've like submitted music for like the roots before and i submitted like verses for kanye like in like 2010 or some shit like that when like a producer of his like asked me to try some shit but it never like it never took for whatever reason you dropped an album though didn't you i've dropped yeah i've dropped three albums they've all done decently well on the itunes charts but it's like uh there's just not a ton of money to be made in like

streaming music would you would would you say you became more successful um on itunes and met let's say like maybe a sammy adams uh not on itunes his music is more what probably popped off more than mine definitely popped off more than mine did but like uh the battle than mine did. But the battle rap is just a different, it's almost a different discipline. Is that where he came out of, the battle rap? No, he's not a battle, I don't think he's ever done really battle rap stuff. Anyone that people would know of

who came out of battle rapping, other than, of course, one of the GOATs? I would say there's probably a lot of rappers who probably suck at battle rapping, right? Yeah, there's like, and everyone will say that they like, I mean, Grinnell, you asked like what guys I've met. Like Drake is a guy that I met through battle rap that was like, he says he watches it all the time.

And like he was close to doing it, like to battle rapping. He does it in his lyrics. He's like very, he's the type of guy, he goes over the top. If you say one bad thing, he's just waiting for you to swing. I think that comes from him studying the battle rap kind of stuff. What was that like though? Drake, like the biggest celebrity in the world dude he was uh so nice to me like i met him at a press conference and as he walked in everybody's like the red seas are parting and i was doing interviews for a website called battle rap.com at the time i just

had the mic in my hand and he walked up to me like and got like the biggest smile on his face like kind of his body language opened up he was like yo like acting like i had like like he knew me and like i had been he just is the respect right such gregarious uh you know such a uh like warm guy it's like it's cool to see someone that talented and the drake thing i mean you know traditionalists and maybe old school hip-hop fans hate how mainstream it's become and and but i mean man, he's at the top, right? Like, of the most people are consuming his music. How do you feel about the fact that it's become so mainstream that they maybe don't have the respect that the older guys get? I think that there is some – the mainstream, it's a blessing and a curse because you're able to transcend whatever types of ceililings are on top of you once you hit that mainstream you're out of the hip-hop world

and you're into so much more money but at the same time like you will lose out in respect and i think that that's what all of battle rap's about it's like you're it's you're you're getting respect for your lyrics and you won't be getting that money respect it's almost like you make the decision that you're going to focus on these entendres or like these really mean things people say in battle raps and it's like you you almost have that you're going to focus on these entendres or like these really mean things people say in battle raps. And it's like you almost have to give up one to get the other. But I don't mind it. I mean, there are a lot of people who respect it.

I want to go back to the TV show for a minute. You were part of a writer's room out in Hollywood, man. Yes, yes. I mean, that's something that like when I was in college, I didn't even know that was a fucking option back then. And now it's like with the internet and everything, you always hear about these things. I didn't even know that was a fucking option back then. And now it's like with the internet and everything, you always hear about these things. So like now when you were writing for Celebrity Battle Rap, they must have been like, okay, here's a list of what you can't say about this person, right?

Spot on. Yeah, exactly. So how hard is that? Okay, here, do this thing you're awesome at, but you can't do A through fucking Z. Yeah, it was tough because you would write these vicious lyrics or like these beautiful rhyme schemes that you knew would like crush in a real life battle like this would destroy somebody but then the person's publicist or the studio or yeah their their ego or they think that this is crossing the line too much that's like anything corporate now yeah it's so that and i mean that goes back to being with barstools like that's why i think it keeps growing and growing it's like there's no holding back it's like we don't care if it doesn't land and we're not going to appease everybody we get that but it's showing

that it's on the rise right there's more of a demand for that exactly and no one's telling you no but in this case some people will be telling you no and there were even instances where certain celebrities walked off the set they're like this shit is despicable like i can't believe you even showed me this copy to read and they would just fucking leave. Yeah, you missed the name of the fucking show, you dummy. Yeah, right?

It's a battle rap. What are they supposed to talk about? They're just supposed to suck each other's dicks? What's the show called again? It was called Drop the Mic. Drop the Mic. It was on TBS.

I thought it was going to be the one that Nick Cannon was a part of. Wild N' Out. Wild N' Out. Is that similar? That's a little bit more. There are a lot of battle rappers

who do that and the guy who I most recently battled was on Wild N' Out. To me, that's like fucking PG bullshit. Yeah. Well, they offered me the job six times, and that's the amount of seasons that this guy has had his job. So it's basically like I was the first option. Okay, that would have been your chance? No, I mean, no.

I was the first option to go on Wild N' Out. I said no, so they took option B, which Wild N Out I said no So they took option B Which was this guy Who I just battled Who I just whipped his ass Right But I'd imagine That was probably

Financially a good decision For him That you declined it Would that have been A part of maybe Selling out Yeah I think that

That could definitely Be an angle to it What do you think He's making Working for that show Well he's making Less than I think that show

Notoriously underpays that's kind of what wild and out is famous for they're just throwing guys like a thousand dollars an episode and everyone's getting really from their episodes how much do you think nick cannon's making of that dude nick cannon's cake and bro that guy's got the america's got talent money bro nick cannon's got all the money yeah but okay so so i have a bit of a problem with that like here's here's where i have a bit of a problem with that. That's like Nick Cannon. Here's where I have a bit of a problem with that. It's like I kind of like everybody eating. I agree with that.

And he kind of, in some ways, he eats off of the fat of like a lot of battle rappers come onto his show. That's what I'm saying. And they make fun of him even during their raps on the shows for being like kind of a cheap guy or underpaying them. Yeah, I mean that's only funny for so long where it's like nick cannon's probably worth over like a hundred million he might even be worth wiping his ass for you and chucking in the toilet six times how much do you think he's worth i would bet i would guess so i have i had i don't know why some people may say hey fuck it whatever he's making his dough and what does he care but i have a bit of a problem with that i agree and i mean how many times can you make a mariah carey? We're on 15 seasons and they're making the same jokes about the same subjects.

You know what I mean? But it serves a purpose within the hip hop community. And the fact that these guys who are battle rappers who don't get a lot of opportunities are making it onto TV and getting that chance. Even if you're not getting paid a lot, making it onto TV when you don't have lots of opportunities to do that is huge for you. Has there already been set up a league where this is like a traveling circus? Maybe you could start it kind of like – who's the Raybill? Paul Raybill? Like a lacrosse league type thing?

Yeah. Well, why wouldn't you be the commissioner of where you could organize this? You think it should be like teams or something like that? Or how do you think they should do it? You should be – no. Or maybe – Like a tournament or something? I don't know. You should be like teams or something like that. Or how do you think they should do it? You should be. No. Or maybe a tournament. I don't know that you should be the Vince McMahon of it.

And now you can make it more lucrative and you can get all your buddies paid and everyone could have a great time. So there are leagues where it is kind of established and there's like two like really or maybe two or three really big leagues. And then there's smaller leagues below that. And those big leagues are the ones that are paying these like top dollar prizes for everything. And beneath that are all the other leagues. But there are a lot of leagues already, but not a lot of people have done teams.

Not a lot of people have done tournaments. And a lot of the battles aren't even judged outwardly because people's egos are so fragile that they don't like to get told that they lost a rap battle. So they'll just be like, I'm not doing it unless it's not judged. So a lot of it will fall to the court of public opinion. Do you think that they could rent out a venue where it would be like a bracket so that people could go there in the morning and be there all day to where it was? Let's say it was a round of 16. They used to do that. So there was something in 2008 called the World Rap Championships.

And there were two-on-two battle rappers, and they would do it for an entire day. And it was mostly freestyle, and the guys were going back and forth. Some guys were starting to write. It was the beginning of the written era. But the problem of it all being in one day was the first set of battles was incredible. The first round was awesome. And then the last round, when everybody's mentally fatigued and out of material, the championship's the worst round. So it's like from a tournament perspective, you want the competition to get better. So for that to work, they might have to spread it out rather than doing it just in one day. And then it kind of turns into an endurance thing rather than who's the most skilled rapper.

Wow, that was such a sick breakdown there. Hell yeah, bro. I mean, I definitely have thought about it before. Well, I think it would be rude not to talk about Eminem. I mean, he's got to be one of your influences. So I watched 8 Mile, and I never thought about battle rapping after that. I didn't think, oh, I've got to battle rap because of this. I didn't start battle rapping until I saw the shit way later down the line.

But I do have the utmost respect for his ability to rhyme. One thing that I do see a similarity in it, he loves to rhyme multiple like one thing that uh i do like see a similarity in it he loves to rhyme like multiple syllables at once and i think that that's like a a cool like part of battle rap like being able to unlock like a series of words that rhyme perfectly right he's one of the best at that and now i don't think it's appreciated enough under these new rappers and i think that maybe that's where he he becomes like the grumpy old man maybe a little bit because he's like i had to fucking work to become better at this jay cole's very similar where like you could tell this is like uh kendrick lamar as well like he's trying to get better at this with that the wordsmith side of it as well as put together this

beautiful music and also have something meaningful to say and there aren't many of them and then when these guys seeing these other guys like Takeshi69 getting three times as many streams it's just like what the fuck is this this isn't what this is about yeah it turns into a marketing contest sometimes rather than about being skilled but at some points like that that's what's going to win out some people just want the look look rather than wanting the actual skill level. Speaking of the freestyle, you went into it with Rudy when you were out in Oakland for your battle. What goes through your head when you're freestyling? How do you put that together? Because I thought the answer was really interesting.

Like so when I'm freestyling is almost different than like if I'm doing a rap battle, it's kind of pre-written. So I'm accessing something that I've memorized. a rap battle, it's kind of pre-written. So I'm accessing something that I've memorized, but like a freestyle, if I'm just coming off the top of my head, both of the answers to that is I'm thinking of what happens next. So I'm trying to think of the word that I want to end on, and then I'll go backwards and say, let me find something that rhymes with this. So it's almost like you want to plan for the punchline to be the second thing. So the most impactful thing you have to think of first, and then go back and kind of find something that rhymes with that. It's almost like speaking a different language and you're accessing what you want to say in French while you're thinking of it in English. Is that how you developed how to battle rap?

Or do other people find another way in order to present their information through battle rap? Because that's how your mind found out how to work it, right? to present their information through battle rap because that's how your mind found out how to work it, right? I think that there's some people, sometimes maybe you think of like a sequitur, so like a sentence that comes right after the word that you just rhymed. Maybe you'll want to just take it right into that and then find something that rhymes with that afterwards.

So it's like a stall tactic. It's like an A-B versus a B-A. You know what I mean? Like you can pick which one you want to come up with first, but if you have the punchline be the one you thought of more, then that's going to be more impactful. Well, I was going to ask, do you have certain things that you can always fall back on in case you do get stuck on a thought? Yeah. I think all freestyle rappers have crutch rhymes and stuff that they already know that rhymes like chocolate chip and rocket ship are always going to rhyme.

You know what I mean? You can always come back to them. How bad is it when you freestyle and you just fucking fizz out? Is that the worst feeling? The price is right home and everything? I do it on the radio broadcast, and I chirp myself right afterwards. I could not imagine. There's a term for it in broadcasting.

I always forget the name of it, but it's essentially like falling off the branch. Yeah, like a brain fart. Yeah. When you just lose it. And that has happened to me a couple times in actual rap battles when I wrote the shit and I forget the script. And it's pretty much the worst feeling that you can have. It's like that nightmare of being naked.

It really is. In real life, yeah. And a couple times I've done it and I've just like continued to freestyle so I'm just at least rapping but a couple times I was so fucked up mentally that I just stopped and I was like

fuck it's gonna come back to me like any second and I just couldn't access it in my brain and it was just like what the fuck is this oh and then the next second

feels like it was five and then the second after that feels like it was 15 and then your anxiety goes to the rocket ship and then you have more so then you have a second round or a third round that you still have to do and you can't act like you're mentally defeated which you are like you just shit the fucking bed everybody knows it but then you have

to pretend that you didn't shit the bed and just hop back in and just start swinging again have you ever came back rocky style where you you fucked up and then you came back and won it? I mean people have done that. I've never – it's happened so infrequently that I guess you could argue that I did win those. Like there was like – those were judged. So there was like one battle – like one of the judges voted for me after the choke that I still won or like there was one where two judges voted for me. So I guess you can kind of come back. Like I've seen it happen before. two judges voted for me.

So I guess you can't kind of come back like I've seen it happen before but it's so tough when that energy gets sucked out of the room and it's just fucking dead in there and everybody's just waiting

for you to say something and you have nothing to say. It kills the vibe so much that it's almost impossible to come back. Are you able to? I mean, yeah. Like you are.

Well, the next battle after that is the like that's when you have to be on your shit. When you visit, the battle just ends there. Like that's it. No, like then you come back is the – that's when you have to be on your ship. When you visit, the battle just ends there. Like, that's it. It's like – No, like, then you come back in the third round, but it's like you're going to come back and finish your ship, but people aren't going to think you won.

Right, right. You know what I mean? The court of public opinion isn't going to side with you. So, I mean, I could talk about this all night, too, but I think people might want to hear about the other aspects of Roan. He's more than just a battle rapper. Yeah, you're from Philadelphia. Sorry. Nah, bro.

We don't have to – yeah, no, bro. It's incredible. You said sorry? No, I said sorry. Yeah, we kind of got... Don't mind him. I thought you were saying sorry you're from Philadelphia. No, no. I was saying sorry as in like, before I... When I smoke weed and then I do interviews, I like to

dive into certain things because I want to get the psychological aspect of something that I know nothing about and that I really respect and I don't have the balls to do. Dude, you're welcome to delve into the cycle. I don't want to get more shallow if you want to take it more shallow. That's something where if I'm going to dive into it or, oh, I meant personally, if I would

personally dive into it, you would definitely need more time. But I think we've gotten enough so far. But what do you want to talk about as far as Philly's concerned? No, I didn't bring up Philly. I just was going to say, what were you doing for work before Bastl? I was, I mean, Battle Rap was like,

I was like cobbling together a living through Battle Rap. I had like, I did this, I was working for another content creating company out of Philadelphia.

It was called Uji Uji. It was very small. There was like fucking six people that worked there, but there was like a ton of money. It was just a rich guy

who wanted to start up like a new vice or something like that and failed miserably but like i got a couple checks off of him or whatever and made some shitty content and then like writing for this tv show like i was shooting a bunch of pilots with mtv and shit like that at the time like it was either going to be that route and then i really i wanted to work at barstool i was trying to work at barstool and they just wouldn't let me fucking work here i was like bro let me just fucking get a job over here and then eventually they they let me i think it was what do you say who wouldn't let you i was just like i don't think that they understood how the battle rap shit could translate so i was just like applying to just like let me be a writer

let me just write about the sixers or something if you're creative enough to do what the battle rapping was god i would have been like yeah let's see what you got to offer but i think it just they didn't understand the translation and i hadn't won like the championship at that point so it was probably just like this guy's just like a white rapper or something like that there's probably a stigma attached to it that may or may not have been true but i think that's probably what slowed my entry but i eventually got my ass in here was it smitty who got you in correct yeah smitty i was like applying when mo left i was trying to be uh they said they were hiring a second guy in philly so i applied like a bunch and they said it was down to one or two people wound up being jordy who was a you know a hockey guy great hire but the then when they moved to uh new york i was like oh this is my opportunity

there's going to be more money and so i hit up smitty again i was sending him sixers vlogs i was like bro just let me write about the Sixers. I don't give a fuck. Let me just get a foot in the door. Because I had a journalism degree. I was like, let me write. I don't give a fuck. And so eventually I worked my way in.

So for those of you who don't follow you, what type of things do you do now for Barstool? I mean, have the Sixers blogs continued? So it's less Sixers coverage right now. I mean, I still root, root, root for the home team, bro. But your interests are elsewhere. My interests are all over the place. So we do a lot of college football videos.

We just finished up a series called Concussion Protocol. My friend Caleb and I. Oh, he's the fucking man. He's hilarious. His videos are just absolutely fucking brilliant. You guys have great chemistry together. And I actually couldn't tell the two of you apart when I first started following him. We look very different.

No, I know. But I didn't know whose name was which. I understand that. I'm like, those two guys that are always together. I don't know what their names are. Yeah, like Frick and Frack. Yeah, Frick and Frack. Exactly.

Tom and Jerry. Exactly. The same exact shit. And then I do the radio show, The Yak. Damn, that makes me wonder what else I fucking do. We have a fantasy football podcast in here that Hank and I do together. You travel quite a bit as well. Travel a bunch.

Whenever we need any kind of video, I'm out there, bro. Put me on the fucking road. Let me get a video going. And I'm always trying to do more stuff with content, too. I just like being creative. That's where it all comes back to. That's what's so good about this place. I always compare it to...

I grew up reading Mad Magazine and reading National Lampoon. And those places let you do what you want. Here you go. There were no limits. Dave, Erica... The only rule we have on checklists is you can't fucking sue the advertisers, which is duh, no shit.

No politics. Which is great. Which is a great rule. Yeah, we don't give a fuck about that anyways to talk about. But it's like, no, man, here's your platform. Paint whatever the fuck you want. And as a creative person, artist, whatever the fuck you want to call yourself, it's awesome, man. This place is the balls. And some people get it.

Some people don't. But I kind of always think we're in that same spirit as MAD and nationally important. We're sort of carrying on that tradition. I would say it's an online SNL. You can create your own little – Same thing, well, minus the NBC census. Yeah, and it's great. And I am so grateful for it because it's gotten to the point now where if I do get an idea in my brain,

I can go to Eric or David and say, I want to do this, and usually I'm getting the okay to do it. As long as you show them that you're putting the effort forward and that obviously if you have a couple misses, they might start being like, hey, we're getting some pushback by advertisers, whatever it may be. If you can show up and perform and get it done. But if you sell a billion cases of a fucking liquor, then people might be more inclined to give you a little bit of leeway with your ideas. That's one thing. And that was one thing that when I originally brought it to them, they shut down. I had to be persistent about that.

I had to get Ryan Whitney on board. But I don't blame them for that because they have a million other things to work on and build out and set up infrastructure for where things like that may be like a quick no because they weren't feeling like it that day because their fucking desk was fucking all the way up to here. Now we got the pawn hockey tournaments. That's going to be a fucking blast. It's going to be incredible. Yeah, maybe you can put the blades on and come out. But it's cool because now we get to interact with our fans,

and that's just like another sector of of what's going on here and and and it's all that stems from these fucking crazy ideas in our head like we should do this all right let's fucking do it and like it's there's no corporate bullshit it's simple as that and maybe just like the first time they might say no just not knowing how serious you are about it but if you keep on asking like there's a pretty good chance this shit's gonna get done but nobody wants to see me fucking skating bro i have baby giraffe ankles bro my shit will just not worse than wits ankles at least he has skated you know what i mean he's had a successful skate bro my shit would just it would be like you do have skinny legs jesus christ i don't know what to do about it bro i don't know i i mean i i really don't know what do i get tell me about it I pray that nobody throws a fist at you when you're up there fucking battle riding.

You fucking break in half. I might break a leg, bro. I might just snap my ankle in half, bro. It would be bad news. But you're smart enough to avoid that shit. You know what I mean? Well, up until now. Yeah, I fucking better be.

Now everybody knows about how skinny my legs are. I'm about to hear a whole roundabout. I'm going to be at the airport, look up on the news and be like, oh, shit, dude. What? He got shot? He got shot? He got shot battle-rapping? He got killed by a punch? Oh, wow.

That's probably how he should have gone out. I know you are a big Sixers guy. Were you ever a Flyers guy at all? Dude, I used to be a huge Flyers guy. And I used to go to so many Flyers games because my best friend, a kid named Tom Leonard, had great tickets. And we were, like, in seventh grade going to Flyers games. And, like, we were the obnox grade going to Flyers games and like we were the obnoxious Philly fans.

We would sit like fucking, I remember like making Nikolai Hobby Boulin's life hell, bro. I would sit behind him maybe six rows off the ice and I would just be screaming for fucking three periods,

Boulin! Just over and over again. I know I was the biggest asshole. Tell me if he heard me. Do you think that someone, if you were just screaming the entire time, do people hear you? Okay, well, here.

You're flexing right now by being that fan who thinks he got in one of the opposing players. I was 13 years old at the time. I was 13 years old. No, no, right. But also, I want to go back and check his numbers in that building at the games that he played against the Flyers

because I want to know if you did get Nazeer and he knew what you were going to do. I bet we could look that up, bro. and check his numbers in that building at the games that he played against the Flyers. Because I want to know if you did get Nazeer and he knew what you were talking about. I bet we could look that up, bro. I could probably find the years on it. But I think that that's a terribly obnoxious— I agree. That's painful. Now that I've been in an arena where I could be heckled, I have realized that that's probably not a good thing to do.

You know what I mean? It's come full circle. But at the time i'm saying i was a 13 year old predator obnoxious asshole i completely agree with you and that's how i i felt when i first got into media and broadcasting is maybe i when i was a player i'd be a little bit critical when watching a game and a and a play-by-play guy would have a blunder since i joined the industry i am like you guys do not get enough fucking credit for the amount of like pressure that's on you you're on live tv if you fucking stumble or say the wrong

thing like you're you know then you're worried oh my god am i gonna get fired like people people aren't sympathetic at the fact that so many people who are on live tv are eventually gonna fuck up where it's like yo that's that's like The world lacks empathy, Paul. It's crazy. Because you just have never been through it. You know what I mean? You haven't lived. Are you a little bit more sympathetic already to the media members? I know I am because, like, I don't know, maybe I'll have that

shitty tweet one day which was a bad take that everyone's hammering on you for or you might be on the wrong side of something where, like, you know, people are really upset. Oh, dude, I mean, we listen to my show enough. I mean, I fuck up all the time. So, yeah, I mean, I never give shit to people for fucking up.

I'm not the most eloquent guy all the time. So do you have anything in store, anything new on? What's up? What about Pup Punk? Like, what's the future of that? Oh, dude, how the fuck do we not talk about Pup Punk? That's why I would spur them on. Some other shit, yeah.

Dude, I seen you guys. I'm sorry, I'm going to stroke him off. I went to that show at House of Blues, dude. And I'm like, these guys have sounded good. For the way it came together, it was spur of the moment. And, you know, the whole Smitty, Frankie thing. But Frankie was clearly fucking a great drummer. Like, Smitty had an injury.

It was like, it sucked. Oh, wait, they were both drummers and they were trying out to get in the band? No, Smitty had the injury. It was like it sucked, but it was like. Oh, wait, whoa. They were both drummers, and they were trying out to get in the band? No, Smitty had the job at first, and then when Smitty fought it rough and round, he fucked his shoulder up, and he couldn't play at a level that they needed him to play off. Well, it turns out Frankie Borelli can hit the skin pretty fucking good. Oh, I heard him. He was amazing. So I don't know that there was a whole thing.

I'm not down here. I don't know the whole what went behind the scenes, how Smitty, maybe he got fucked by certain people. Some people say, I don't know. I don't give a fuck but the bottom line is bringing him barelli was the right move because barelli is an unbelievable and he was better at smitty at that time so to get the best band they brought him barelli anyways i saw you guys at boston we we have to yeah let him let him start the whole story and what in what exactly we're talking about is you kind of got deep in there with the jerry roberts and pop I think everyone knows Robert Owens and Pop Punk, the Barstool band. Right, but we have a lot of hockey fans that don't follow Barstool.

Basically, it's like a punk cover band, a little pop punk cover band where it's like, you know how like in Green Day, like Blink-182 type music where they just kind of like wear makeup and like whine about how they hate their parents and shit like that. That's the kind of music that we're kind of parodying. Like we're kind of just giving a little. And you guys make your own songs. We have some of our own songs.

You know what I mean? Some of our own music videos and a bunch of covers. And the shows are a fun time. And it's all Barstool employees. That's the catch. PFC Commentary, Robbie Fox, and Frankie Borelli. So that's a pretty big combo there. And what are your original songs called?

We have a song called My Real Girlfriend about this girlfriend who's like totally real. She just lives in a different state and you just never met her. But she's real. She exists. We have a song called Just One Christmas, which is for us poor kids whose parents never got divorced. I'm a divorced kid, dude. That song killed me. All the other kids get two, Just One Christmas, which is really tough.

And it's a sad song for kids that only that have parents who never got divorced we have we have the song of the summer we have like just we have a bunch of hits

Back to School Tonight like a bunch of just but it started as a lock right? like you guys didn't think you were gonna be that fucking good it still is a joke

like anyone that takes it seriously is like I mean you're selling out Irving Plaza though what I'm getting at so anyways we know what the band's that so they did a couple shows in New York and the places went nuts so I went Anyone that takes it seriously is like... I mean, you're selling out Irving Plaza, though. But the quality is incredible. What I'm getting at. So anyways, we know what the bands thought. So they did a couple shows in New York, and the places went nuts.

So I went, I'm like, I got to see these guys. Are they really that good? And I was side stage. I felt like I was... If you took me from a different planet and blindfolded me and told me, all right, the biggest rock stars in America right now, I would have bought it hook, line, and fucking That's very generous. Whoa. Now, listen, I'm not the most music-intuned person.

I don't know what G could. But I'm telling you, you guys had that room rocking. You guys were fucking incredible. So maybe you will be of Drake's size, just not in the rap game. Dude, I don't know. I think that R.A. is being very generous. R.A. was having a night. Or maybe just pop punk is just not that great of a genre.

It's easy to mock. Exactly. It's easy to make fun of. That's as lucrative as the underground rap game, pop punk. Exactly. It's more lucrative than the underground rap game. It was a great show. It was a great show.

We just play fun songs that are fun to sing along with, and there are some talented guys in the band, especially considering that it's their fourth thing that they're good at. Is the adrenaline better at a pop punk show or at a battle rap? A rap battle's way higher adrenaline. I'm scared before a rap battle. I call it battle rap. You know what I mean? No, it's the same thing, battle rap, but for a i mean but no it's the same thing battle rap but uh it's uh for a pop punk show it's the same thing as your

wedding toast everyone wants you to do well everyone's there to have a good time they're not there to argue with you to your face like they're not there to you know the lyrics exactly and if you mess up nobody gives it it's more about you at the battle whereas with pop punk it's a show with four years yeah you have one chance, and you probably don't want to mess that up. Do you guys have a song in the oven right now? Dude, we should make one. I don't know. We should make an homage to you guys, an ode to you guys. I don't know how we can...

I wanted to do a Pink Whitney track. I don't know if I want to make it. Let's go. What are we talking about? Let's get one. I was thinking about doing a rap, and then I reached out to Brett Kissel, because he's another guy who's in the music game, but it's country. Maybe we could do some twangy Pink Whitney country rap thing. Yeah, some Old Town Road shit or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would love it. I would absolutely love it. Or what's your girl's name? Muddy Susan or some shit? Shitty Cindy. Shitty Cindy. We'll get some Shitty Cindy music going on, bro.

I would love it. That's Shitty Cindy. Pink Whitney. I was talking about doing a liqueur, like a Bailey's style, but do it the Shitty Cindy. Is there any Roan music coming anytime soon? I don't have anything planned, but over the break, maybe I'll go to the studio and have something cooked up. Maybe I'll work on something coming up.

I don't know, though. Well, I'd say this will be received better than the Hinge ad, so at least we're ahead of something. Damn, that's fucked up. Terry Sandusky stories. They're going to receive better than the Hinge ad. People are going to love that. I know. But, hey, thanks for coming on.

You're a very interesting fellow, and we hope the underground rap game becomes like eSports and you fucking really pop off. That would crush it, bro. These guys are making $3 million to play Fortnite, so that would be incredible. All right, let's go. All right, thanks a lot, bro. These guys are making $3 million to play Fortnite, so that would be incredible. Alright, let's go. Thanks a lot, Roan. It's been fun.

Big thanks to our buddy Roan at Bostel Headquarters. And by the way, his name is Adam Ferron, in case you were curious. Everybody knows him as Roan, but his government name is Adam Ferron. Ridiculously talented fellow. We love talking to him. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that. Back to the ice over in whitney's

old league the khl we had probably one of the worst suspensions ever uh the dude got tapped on the arm he was a finnish guy defenseman yuki yuki paka he got two games for tapping a guy on his shoulder pad biz man i mean it was just crazy or what? Probably the worst suspension I've ever seen. And the fact that – did he get kicked out of the game originally? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he did or not. Guys, when I say love tap, this was a graze. I think you could – One-handed, like, swipe.

It was – I don't even – did it – it's insane. There would have been more force if you hawked up a loogie especially you wick because you can spit pretty good i know if you spit on my arm as hard as you could that would have been harder than this guy got whacked on the arm the biggest joke i would imagine that this is i'd like to get igor on to explain this one that's what i'd like they'll just laugh in your face all you know You know what, Biz? They were playing St. Petersburg, and there it is. You're playing ska, and if you touch someone, and maybe, like, is there any chance the guy, like, broke his finger somehow?

I have no idea, but you're on St. Petersburg, and you take any sort of slash or hit, and that guy is going to be suspended. Hey, after the game, they wheel him out in a body cast. Do you think the fact he was a Finn fact is in the Russian League wit at all? Can't say for suspensions. I mean, I wouldn't know how to answer that one. Maybe.

Anything's possible. I feel like in the suspension room, it was like a scene out of that show, Chernobyl. Was that the name of the show that came out? The four-part documentary? Unreal, yeah. But there was definitely one of the show that came out? The four-part documentary? Unreal, yeah. But there was definitely one of those meetings where it's just like, hey, we're going to do something that's wrong and we're not going to explain ourselves

and we're just going to pretend nothing happened and move on. Build a mountain of lies until the Swedes start saying they're getting cancer for some reason by these clouds in the sky. Correct. There we go. Here's the problem, Yerky.

All right, hey, listen up. In case you haven't heard yet, BetMGM is the home for spitting chicklets for sports betting this year. The same guys that bring you the world's most spectacular casino resorts and top-notch entertainment have a new sports betting app in New Jersey. You can download the app, deposit, and check out lines from anywhere in the world, but you have to be in the Garden State to place all your bets. That's New Jersey.

I'm going to say it a few more times. This week, we got another offer for new customers on the BetMGM Sports app when you use the bonus code CHICKLETS. Ooh, this is one. I'm going to have to go to Jersey for this one. They're offering new users a $500 risk-free bet, but you got to make sure to sign up with the bonus code CHICKLETS to take advantage of the offer.

Place your first wager today, and even if you lose, you get your money back. Holy crap. That's a dream bookie. Plus, we're introducing the Chicklets Bump promotion for all BetMGM users. Check out the promotions page every Friday and opt into the promotion and place a pregame hockey bet of $10, and you'll get it matched in another $10 free bet that you got to use live during the game. Talk about a Chicklets Bump, eh? Meanwhile, the gambling corner,

let's take a look. Last week, I only had one corner due to the Best Of episode. St. Louis did come through for me on the puck line, so a 1-0 week, I'll take that all day. Monday, I gave out Philly Puck and Money. That went to the shithouse, but I did come back with the Stars at the Classic, thankfully. And by the way,

if you lose a game 1-0 or 10-0, it really doesn't matter. Your pick isn't any worse if you get blown out or if you lose it, they fucking chew it out. A loss is a loss. The money's fucking gone. Either way, for today's corner... Whoa, whoa. Wait. You're telling me if you make a bet

and you're in the bet the whole game, it's not better than if your team just gets blown out? You're out of the bed. It's not like you can't enjoy the two and a half, three hours. If you fucking lose, you didn't enjoy it. You pay for the entertainment

in my eye. I think that losing a bet at the very end is way more entertaining than getting blown out when you have nothing to even watch. I guess the point is, if you bet a good team and they lose six-1, it doesn't like, it's like, hey, they had an off night. I mean, it's like, okay, yeah, you lost

the team loss, but I don't think you made a shittier call because the team lost by five goals, I guess is my point. Having said that, for today's corner, we're jumping on the abs in Jersey Saturday night. Hey, bet MGM, get on it. They were embarrassed by the Jets on New Year's Eve,

and that's not going to happen in Newark. So we're on Nate Dogg and Landy with a sizable puck line play. And depending on the money line, we might do something there as well. I'll be blogging it Saturday so you can check either the Twitter feed or Bostel. But again, the Avs puck line Saturday night in New Jersey and one other potential play. If Jerry gets to start in Montreal for the Penguins on Saturday, we're also going to be jumping on the Penguins' money line,

given the situation with the Canadians forwards, a shitload of them out. So the one definite play, again, Avs money, I'm sorry, Avs puck line in Jersey Saturday, and check the goaltending for Pittsburgh, because if Jerry's in, we're going to be on them money line. And once again, I want to let you know, BetMGM is the home for chicklets this season. If you're a new user,

sign up with the bonus code CHICLETS and your first bet is risk-free up to $500. Ours is a nickel, we call it. Plus, make sure you opt in to the Chiclet Bump promotion every Friday to take advantage of our special offer. Paid and free bets. Must be 21 or older. Must be in New Jersey to place bets. Restrictions apply. Visit betmgm.com

for the full list of terms and conditions. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLING. All right, boys, we got anything else to add? I think it would be rude not to mention David Stern, the passing of the NBA commissioner, and Gary Bettman had some kind words for him. He did an incredible job of growing the NBA to what it is now

and handing things off to Adam Silver. So my condolences to his family and, I mean, really the entire NBA family because I'd imagine those guys are shooken up. Whit, do you have anything to say about it? I know you're normally not very positive about the NBA. No, no, no. I wasn't aware of when he took over, kind of have a bat of a place basketball was in.

I was reading some things like forget forget where they're at now, or as much as I shit on them, they are like a global power, the NBA. I didn't understand that he got them there. And when he took over, it was in shambles. And so credit to him because a lot of players said some really nice things on Twitter. Shaq said something nice. And it was just sad news to hear because I think he had a brain hemorrhage a couple weeks ago, R.A.?

Right before Christmas. I think it was December 17th. Terrible. I mean, I've been watching the NBA. Contrary to popular belief, I actually do like hoops in the NBA. I kind of get lumped in with sick league stuff. But this guy brought the league. I mean, the league used to be on a tape delay you couldn't even watch live nba games every locker room before a game was like a fucking

snowstorm because coke was out of control i heard the drug problem in the nba when he took over was yeah and i would say honestly it was probably just indicative of society at the time i mean america had its face in a bowl of coke from like basically throughout the 70s into the 80s so the nba really wasn't much different than society. But at the same time, it's a professional league and you can't have that. He came in, Bird, Magic, then Jordan. I mean, it was a joke. I mean, it was a laughingstock.

And now it's the most popular league on the planet. And him, like you said, him and Bettman are boys. And I think Bettman's trying to do the same thing that Stern did with the NBA, bring the NHL to these lofty new heights. And so far, he's done a great job. But again, like you said, bizarre condolences to his family and friends and everybody in the NBA, NBA community, because he brought this league to ridiculous new heights.

I mean, Berkey even mentioned it during his interview and, and nobody did it better than the NBA as far as putting their stars on a pedestal. And the big, the big thing was the dream teams. And then all those fucking all-stars overseas. And that was a, that was a huge bump. And that's why we always want to see our guys overseas doing the big thing was the Dream Team sending all those fucking all-stars overseas and that was a huge bump and that's why we always want to see our guys overseas doing the same thing

so tough tough news to end this one but folks we love you we appreciate all your support I'm telling you guys seeing you guys live in Dallas and just talking to all our fans it means more than you guys will ever know.

So we love you. Yep. And that's a wrap and let's have a good 2020. Yeehaw. Boom. Peace. As always, we'd love to thank our dynamite sponsors and hopefully you fantastic

listeners have taken advantage to check out manscaped. You want to go to manscaped.com and use the code chicklets for 20% off and free shipping. And for dude wipes, you go to dude products.com and use the code CHICKLETS for 20% off and free shipping. And for Dude Vibes, you go to DudeProducts.com. Use the promo code HOCKEY20 for 20% off your entire order. Everybody, have a happy new year. Take care. Underneath, underneath this amaryllis sky.

Underneath this amaryllis sky you