Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 275: Featuring James Wisniewski & Richard Jefferson

Episode Date: June 18, 2020

On Thursday’s episode of Spittin’ Chiclets, the guys are joined by James Wisniewski and Richard Jefferson. Wiz joins (23:54) and talks about his career, playing overseas, playing with Whit and a bunch more. The guys are then joined by former NBA player Richard Jefferson (1:28:16), who joins to talk about his podcast, playing with LeBron, the Olympics and more. The guys also talk about the situation in Buffalo, Reavo’s new contract and Whit’s Golf Game (2:08:19).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 275 of Spittin' Chickens, presented by Pink Whitney from our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka here in the Barstool Sports podcast family. What is going on, gang? Hopefully you enjoyed Monday's surprise episode, even if Biz did spoil it the night before. But let's check in with the gang first before we get to the big news going on in the NHL. Let's go to you first, Biz. You called the surprise episode 12 hours before it was a surprise. Yeah, I got dunked on on Twitter. But, boys, this is unfortunate because we talked about it a few episodes ago,

or maybe it was last episode, regarding the Eichel situation. And some crazy things have transpired. So we'll talk about it right after you get done with the intros. And, I mean, it's kind of a – it's kind of a sound like you got fired. I know, huh? I think half the fucking NHL did. I don't know if you've seen the numbers. Yeah, it's quite a bit.

That was the voice of Ryan Whitney, the wit dog. What's going on? You duffer you guys. Some days you're in a great frigging mood. And right now that's me. And I couldn't be more pleased to be here. And now does that have anything to do with Monday getting into the mass am, and then today getting into the new England am maybe we'll go into that later.

So for people who've asked, they want the golf talk, they want the golf talk. I'm speaking to you guys out there. And for the people who say, I hate the golf talk, I hate the golf talk, get out of my face. And you're just going to tune in at the end of this episode.

We got our show, and then I might be going hole by hole for two frigging rounds because I'm an absolute narcissist, and I want to listen to myself speak about golf. Okay, here we go. Next up, producer Mikey G. What's going on, guy? What's going on, boys? Dropped a new Spittin' Chicklets cartoon today. Story time with Spittin' Chicklets on our YouTube page.

It's John Brophy, Brendan Walsh telling the story. So go check it out there. I know. Walsh will probably get his own frigging cartoon after this one. He should probably already have one anyways. All right, Fizz. The news you alluded to. Well, three weeks after the Buffalo Sabres owner said he was safe,

the team fired general manager Jason Botterill after three seasons, but that was hardly it. This was basically a purge as 21 others also lost their jobs. Per TSN's Frank Saravalli, Botterill's assistant GM Steve Greeley from Massachusetts and Randy Sexton also fired. Director of amateur scouting Ryan Jankowski and a good chunk of the amateur staff was also fired. Scouting went from 21 people down to seven.

They also fired the GM coach and assistants in Rochester, their AHL team. Bartle was replaced by Kevin Adams, who was GM of the team's practice facility and senior vice president of business administration. And per Sarah Valley, he has quote, zero high level hockey operations, many managerial experience and quote, I've never seen this many people lose their job in one day. I don't think in any team biz. I mean, what's your initial reaction, brother?

Well, I was sad for them because I thought that they would get a chance to rectify maybe some of the mistakes they've made along the way. And personally, I think that they should have gave them an opportunity to do so. I mean, the Pakulas give Botter all the fucking sock treatment. Three weeks ago, he's got, you know, they say he's safe and can maybe make some moves. And keep in mind, this is one of the teams in the league. I would assume they have the highest cap space available.

Mind you, they do have to sign a lot of guys, and I do have some notes written down. They have $40 million in salary commitment next season that's 34.48 million in space that's available and that's going off the 81 and a half million that I think that it's going to be at and I mean another thing too that I saw that was crazy is on the day that the NHL stopped, Buffalo was supposed to play Montreal. If Buffalo had won that game in regulation, they'd be playing in the 2014 playoff. So I don't know.

If they actually squeak in there, are all those people fired? I think looking back to Botterill, the Ryan O'Reilly trade is going to bite him in the ass, and it looks more like the Joe Thornton trade looking back to botterill i don't the ryan o'reilly trade is going to bite him in the ass and it looks more like the joe thornton trade looking back on it do they have any anything still in the organization that they gain in assets from that trade uh um all right i'm looking for with sabat going because we know remember bergland retired um yeah a couple of picks basically there's there's looking at the roster right now, there's nobody I don't believe from that trade that's currently on the roster.

Now, I don't know exactly what was available when they tried to shop him. I know that O'Reilly spending the three years there had not, you know, lived up to maybe expectations and provided what they want, but I think O'Reilly was very vocal about the fact that that three years there basically sucked the life out of his career. And he just really wasn't enjoying himself. And he wanted to move on and go somewhere where he could win. Kind of like a similar tone to what Eichel's getting to right now,

where he's just fed up. And, I mean, right away when he got traded, you see the numbers he's put up in St. Louis. I mean, he was on pace to have the best two seasons of his career if you take based on 71 games played this season. So that one came back to bite him in the ass. I don't know, Whit, I'm going to throw it over to you because there's a couple other things I have written down,

but it's just so hard because the head coach and the GM have to be on the same page and there's so much communication that has to happen in order to get to where you want to be as an organization, to be at the top of the league. And when you have this much turnover in every position, it's just all of a sudden it's a new path being taken, and you can't succeed when this is happening. It's impossible to have the game of musical chairs here and have any sort of stability or zero stability and expect to win.

It was kind of like a perfect storm, I think, that all came together because the quotes from, I think it was Kim Pagula about, you know, Borrow's not going anywhere and there are some fans that don't like him, but blah, blah, blah. Well, right after that, Eichel comes out and is talking about being fed up. And you mentioned how, you know, that's what O'Reilly dealt with, and he was like, I just don't want to be here anymore. So not only does Eichel want to be on a winning team,

he's actually seen somebody go through what he is, get out of town, and then win. It's a lot different if you've actually witnessed something like that go down. So here's the thing. get out of town, and then win. It's a lot different if you've actually witnessed something like that go down. So here's the thing. Botterill, from my time with him in Pittsburgh, just a class guy. He treated every single person with respect. I thought he was a really smart hockey man. He was an unreal player himself, played at Michigan. I think he dealt with some pretty bad concussions but you look at what he ends up getting is in terms of a chance and you can say

Sabres fans couldn't stand him well Tim Murray got three years and then Botterill gets three years that ain't that isn't long enough to give a GM to give him a true chance. Think about it, Biz. If you come in, you got your first two or three drafts. Well, at least give me five years to see how my drafts and my draft picks and any sort of trades, which you mentioned the worst one, the O'Reilly one. But in five years, you can see how you've done and how everything's trending, right? It was like Lombardi in LA, I think his sixth year they won the cup. They got in as the eighth seed and won the cup. If they don't even get in the playoffs, which could have happened or lose first round, he could have got fired,

but they gave him the five, six years. So it's just early. And Steve Drill is the assistant GM who was let go as well, along with so many others you guys bring up. I grew up since we were young kids. We went to high school together. We went to college together, played at BU. He's a good friend, and he'll land on his feet.

I mean, because I don't think that these guys were – there were some tough moves made, but there was also a lot of moves made to at least try to make this team competitive and better. And I think that Bartle and Grigli will be fine, and hopefully the rest of the people in the staff that were let go in the hockey department. But Kevin Adams, by the way, the new GM,

hey, congrats, you're the new GM. You have no other people working underneath you, and you actually have to call everyone and tell them they're fired. That's fucking brutal. What is that? That's a shit sandwich these pagulas they came in guys they were they were the god people literally like wanted to name them it was like pagulaville because they built some apartments on chippewa street well now you see

what happens when you just run a team completely amok um regarding that Ryan O'Reilly trade, I think maybe the organization, they thought Casey Middlestad was going to be able to jump in in that second line center role. And that has, I think, put a lot of pressure on him. Christ, he spent half the year in the American Hockey League. So talk about hitting the reverse button there, R.A. Yeah, going back to that trade biz, we said saboka he was on long-term injury but his contract expires this year so he's

all done tage uh what's it tage tom thompson he's going to be a restricted free agent after this season and the kid ryan johnson is still at minnesota so yeah there's currently not a guy on that roster that they have for the ryan o'reilly trade and that's that's a gaping hole but we did talk last week because we said what's the problem with this franchise and again going currently not a guy on that roster that they have for the Ryan O'Reilly trade. And that's a gaping hole. But we did talk last week because we said, well, what's the problem with this franchise? And again, going back to that Sarah Valley piece, the only connective tissue to 90 as well at the playoffs is the ownership.

They've gone through six head coaches, 14 presidents, three GMs, zero playoffs. They've lost money every year, upwards of $30 million per season in some cases. I mean, this fucking team has had more reboots than Spider-Man. It just seems like they're not hiring the right people and putting the right people in the right spots. So this might be a totally bogus comment by me, but something that might be overlooked right now and might have been the straw that broke the camel's back was this Lawrence Pallott, and I hope I'm saying his name right.

He's a defenseman. He comes from Finland. He's 24 years old, right? So what happens is now is given the league is going so young, a lot of these guys want to get paid out of their entry-level deals. And especially when you're having to stay in a place like maybe like Buffalo and the team struggling, some of these guys might think they have a little bit more leverage in negotiation.

So what guys do now, not typically North Americans, because I think most teams call their bluff, but they threaten to go back overseas. Well, this kid threatened to go to the KHL and they tried to call his bluff. Well, what does he do? He signs a two year deal on the KHL. And that happened as of, as of, as of late. And I don't think Buffalo fans were too happy about that one. I don't know what this kid provides. I didn't watch him play much, so that's up for Buffalo fans to message me and let me know. But once again, there's another tough loss and a guy who they thought maybe was going to come in and fill a role that they've lost to the KHL.

So it's just getting really ugly as an organization, and it almost looks as though it's incompetent. So maybe that's what has happened in the last three weeks and what has forced the Pagoulas to make that decision. But overall, you got to feel for Sabres fans. As I mentioned, the good news is all that cap space they have left. But Buffalo being one of those teams we talk about, they have to overpay free agents in order to go there.

You're dealing with a high tax bracket. It's not nice weather. You're not going to be winning a lot of games. And going back to their roster, they have four forwards, one goalie, and five Ds signed on NHL roster for 2021 season. RFAs include Reinhardt, Cahoon, Olofsson, Lazar, Thompson, Middlestad, Montour, that Palut kid I just said, and Allmark. So they have a fucking shit ton of work to do,

and they got some holes to fill in order to get things back on track. And the worst part about all of this is they got to do so very quickly because they have an elite player in Jack Eichel who's on the clock at this point. And if I'm a fan, he can't stand for this much longer. They got a year to figure it out and show something. Sometimes I wonder, the owners, they own the bills too. Can you be successful owning two teams, Ari?

Can you think of anyone who's owned two really good teams? Can can you put your time and effort or do you not even need to am i reaching here no if you have the money you should be able to hire the right people and put them in the right positions i mean i can't think of one off the top of my head i'm sure well oh what's his name one fucking um the white socks jack can't cook maybe i'm going back yeah the white socks yeah that's yeah they've been successful and it's just so he's more just Jack Kent Cook. Maybe I'm going back. Yeah. The White Sox. Reinsdorf. Yeah. They've been successful. So he's more just, he's just screwing the origination out of stupidity,

not because he's overworking himself. I guess being an owner isn't that hard work. You just sign the checks and show up with your Air Force Ones if you craft. But it's also about putting people in the right position. And again, I'm not trying to pick on Kevin Adams here, but you know, it was pointed out. He's never been a general manager. He's been a general manager of a practice

facility. He's never done this for a team on a high level. And now he's in charge of that salary cap situation, as you just described. And it's like, if you're a fan, man, I want somebody with maybe a little bit more of a resume in that area. Again, I wish the guy well, I don't know him, I'm not wishing a ill will on him, but his experience running a front office of a team, it's almost nonexistent, and now he's in charge of this huge project. I don't know, man. It's going to cast an eye on the Pagoulas. I'll tell you what.

If you move Eichel, they better get way more of a return than they got for Ryan O'Reilly. Listen, I'm not shitting on anyone here. I don't know the Pagoulas, and I haven't really followed closely what's been going on. We mentioned Botterill. He's been nothing but nice to me and he had a tough situation to go into. But guys, when you're in that type of organization and you're the general manager, your number one focus, given all the variables, you need to spend a lot of money on scouts and a

lot of money on development. Because if you don't home grow it, you're going to have to overpay for those free agents, and we all know how that works out in today's age. Boom. Pretty good way to end it. Actually, that's a great segue. Speaking of free agents, Buddy Revo, he got paid for another couple years. Vegas ponied up two more years, 3.5 mil. That's 1.75 per year for Revo.

Congrats to him, man. He's a one-of-a-kind player I mean you know physicality biz we've talked about it ad nauseum on this show it's decreasing fighting's decreasing but he still brings a presence that as well we're at the money spent I think I don't give a fuck what you what your fancy stats say well and we were talking to him on the chicklets cup stream because he ended up playing against Nasher last night and or two nights ago and when this is released and And he was talking about even in junior, he wasn't much of a scrapper. His first scrap in junior hockey, he threw out his shoulder.

Did he not, Whit? Yeah, he popped out his shoulder. And he said just subconsciously he couldn't kind of get over it. Like he was thinking, I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it again. Yeah, and he said Payne, the coach in St. Louis, when he was down with him and, uh, was a Peoria, he called him in at the end of the season. He says, listen, do you want to play in the NHL? And Revo was like, of course. And he said, well, you're going to have to start fighting more. You're going to need to add that to your bag. And

Revo was, I mean, he's a solid player and he added that element to his game. And it's surprising to hear a guy go from being timid to fighting to now being probably the heavyweight champion of the league so you know the testament what's that how about he said when we were he was telling that story yeah so after pain told me that i went home that summer and all i did was box and work like i think it was boxing and just working out in the gym one or the other so you know he did what it take So he did what it took to switch his game up and make it, and now it's why a guy like that deserves that contract. I was so happy for him. And it's weird to think that a guy like you said,

who's that tough and that intimidating now, had to be told to do that. That's how like unnatural it is for some people not that it was for him with i think it was more the shoulder injury but to be able to turn that on it's not easy we've talked about that before and switching your game and switching your game from a skill guy to a third line grinder is not even close to as difficult as switching it into like an enforcer fight and probably 25 30 times at the beginning of his career in the minors i bet yeah and he actually talked about that series against winnipeg when they were in the

conference finals a few years back when they ended up beating them and then going on to play washington and he actually scored the game winner in in winnipeg and uh he talked about how important that was to come back into that series because at that point he was a healthy scratch and that goal he thinks propelled him in order to end up sticking around and and and eventually led to him continuing to play with the vegas gold knights and then he ended up scoring uh in the stanley cup final as well so i still think he's an extremely relevant player i mentioned all the time what a guy like that does in the locker room and for the lineup he's very well liked by his teammates all his teammates. All his teammates are able to play a few inches taller and more physical knowing that they got a guy like that to back them.

So congratulations to him. All right, you transitioned it into a free agency thing. He was happy to get it done now because he didn't want to go into free agency and potentially not stick around a place that he calls his home now. He just built a house in Vegas as well. So congratulations, Revo. We love you. And what else you got there?

Well, he won't have to travel far for the playoffs either, Biz, per numerous reports. And to the surprise of nobody, Vegas is slated to be one of the hub cities for the playoffs. I mean, I can't think of a better place to be cooped up than Vegas. I actually got stuck out there for like four days through the weather one time. But I was out of money. I was out of everything. It was fucking miserable, but it looks like, it looks

like that's going to be one of the hubs. So good for, good for fucking Vegas, man. I would definitely say they're one of the front runners. I thought it was set in stone. I talked to somebody who's associated to league and they say every, every city that was being considered is still very much in play right now. So,. So very interesting to hear that. So if you're one of the cities that was named as a hub city, you still have a chance. Yeah. Edmonton, Toronto, Vancouver, the Canadian city still eligible,

in addition to Chicago, Dallas, Columbus, Los Angeles, and Minneapolis, St. Paul, Pittsburgh as well. So, yeah, it hasn't been confirmed by the league yet, but it's pretty much all but confirmed. But they do a lot worse than that. And did you read that article about Wyshynski? I'm sorry, that Wyshynski wrote about Jordy Bennett, how players basically kind of plan their pregnancies around the schedule,

and now because they do that, obviously their plans have gone awry. That's the fucking suck thing to have to deal with. Well, the hardest part about that is they're planning at R.A. for the offseason, but not only is there a season now, these guys are not even supposed to see their families during this whole lockdown if they do continue. It definitely sucks, but, I mean, it's like, hey, I can either be home and not get this money we were supposed to get,

or I can go and then get that money that we're going to have the rest of our lives. I mean, I don't know. Like it certainly is an ideal, but I think it's, I think it's kind of like just bad time. And what else can you say besides tough luck? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's just one of those things. No one could, no one planned on. I mean, I don't even know how many guys want to play. I can wait well that that vote will have to be made public right on when the players vote to play again yeah i mean yeah and they usually get leaked anyways but plus like dubnik said they you know they don't know if it's going to be an executive board vote like one per team or he thinks it's

going to be every player voting so what if you get like 400 to 300 that means more than almost half your union doesn't want to fucking play. I'll say maybe not ideal for being one of the co-hosts of a hockey podcast, but talking hockey right now, can you guys imagine hockey coming back anytime soon? It could not feel like more of the middle of the offseason to me if it was actually going on. Maybe I'm crazy. Oh, no, we're going back to being pessimistic

about this. We're just riding the roller coaster right now. No, I'm more just saying that it's just crazy to think that it may be back in a couple weeks. Wait, did you hear about the NBA and how they've created the hot? Yeah, Kyrie wants to start his own league. Fuck you, Kyrie. Go start your own league.

That guy is a clown. Yeah, he is, but I love the NBA bubble stuff that's been coming out they're gonna have an anonymous snitch line for people well that's what I was just gonna bring up and then RA wanted or went on his little rant there they got a line if the players are like outside of where they're supposed to be they got a they got a hotline where you can call and rat them out it's real easy for those guys like 7-1 to hide and not stick out in the crowd. Man, imagine how many people, too, will call and rat these guys out. Yeah, the Toronto Lions called the hotline blank.

But yeah, they're going to have some amenities. They have a players lounge with video games, DJ sets, movies. They're going to have barbers, manicures, pedicures. They all have that in their houses anyways. They make $30 million a year. Listen, the first families that stay in all the hotel rooms after those guys check out are going to get a contact high for about a fucking week when they're done at Disney World.

They're going to have a few meetings. Takashi 6969, Grinnelli will be calling in and ratting them all out. That's his favorite rapper. Hey, boys, real quick, whether you're working from home or working on your fitness, you want what you're listening to be what you're listening to, not what people with an earshot are listening to. Everyone needs a great pair of wireless earbuds, but before you go dropping hundreds of dollars on a pair,

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You just bring them around in your pocket. Great product. So thank you for sending me a free pair. You guys know I love free. Yeah, if it's free, it's from me. You've heard me talk about the company, how it was co-founded by Ray J and celebs like Snoop Dogg are obsessed with Raycons. So pick up a pair and see what the hype is all about. Now's the time to get the latest and greatest from Raycon. Get 15% off your order at buyraycon.com slash chicklets. That's buyraycon, R-A-Y-C-O-N.com slash chiclets for 15% off Raycon wireless earbuds. Buyraycon.com slash chiclets. And boys, actually, we haven't mentioned our

guests yet. We got a pair of them this week. We have retired NHL defenseman, James Wisniewski, and we have, I believe, our very first NBA player, retired NBA superstar, Richard Jefferson, played 17 years in the NBA. Great interview. We'll be bringing that a little bit, but a couple more items to get to here first. I was introduced to Richard Jefferson by a friend here in Arizona. And I just want to stay off the hop here. We interviewed him before all this stuff went down. So because we're not asking questions about, you know, the recent events that have taken place, guys, I don't want to fucking hear comments

about it, please. Yeah, good point. Actually, that's a good point to bring up. You won't hear any now. Yeah. Holy shit. I think we should send it over to Wiz right now. This is a fun one. So without further ado, James Wisniewski. Well, this next guest patrolled the blue line

for six NHL teams over 11 seasons. He played in over 500 NHL games and over 700 pro games. He won a gold medal with the U.S. at the 2004 World Junior Championships in Helsinki. And he repped the good old red, white, and blue at the 2018 Olympics in Pyeongchang.

He also spent some time in Russia and Germany. Today, he's enjoying a nice little red from his wine cellar as he joins us here on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast. Welcome, James Wisniewski. Oh, and quickly, sorry. Sorry, I got a couple things to add. He's known as the Big Wisniewski. He'll tell you that. He had a clothing line out there, Wiswear, at one point in time.

He had a clothing line out there, whiz wear at one point in time. Had an unreal handlebar mustache at one point when he was younger. What's the one that's like this? Chin strap. Chin strap. You had the dirtiest chin strap I've ever seen. Really thin one, too. Oh, Michigan. Was he wearing mascara?

Yeah, Biz knew. I played against him in the O. You guys were together. You guys were together. You remember that, Biz? Oh, yeah. He was a great defenseman. You played four years in Plymouth. I was in Saginaw. I was taking fucking minuses of the ying-yang when you were zipping them by my ear, you piece of shit.

You had a fucking bomb on you. Oh, man. You had to play in the shittiest city in the OHL. Whoa, whoa. Watch your mouth. That's a former captain that went back to a game this year to drop the puck andiest city in the OHL. Whoa, whoa, watch your mouth. That's a former captain that went back to a game this year to drop the puck and mingle with the fans. That's my town, bro. Yeah, but you needed, like, security once you left the arena.

You're like, not a chance, bro. Those are my people. Sag nasty. That's where it all started. But four years in Plymouth, how did you become such a suitcase when you hit pro? I've been thrown in ACL out 11 times. years in Plymouth how did you become such a suitcase when you hit pro uh well it's grown in ACL out 11 times well the thing is you know you start in the pros and then fifth fifth rounder

kind of get in a league start mixing it up and they're like oh shit you get an opportunity you can actually play so I wanted a lot of money for my free agent year and I just started getting fucking dealt around yeah Yeah, I think. I was like four teams on one calendar year, my unrestricted free agent year. I was with Anaheim, then Islanders, Montreal, and then signed with Columbus. How many Marriott Rewards points do you have? Oh, my God. I can say wherever I want for free.

I'm like elite medalist on the Delta plan and everything. It's fantastic. Like I always say, that's just six teams that wanted you that's all whiz that's right everybody wanted a piece of the whiz that's what it is well i'm interested because i think we've had this discussion before i was a long time ago about what what made you go to the ohl i mean you you you chose that path that college wasn't for you i think i know a couple reasons why the whiz the big whiz news ski but how come you decided to go to the oh well um i was kind of trying to uh before my senior year decide if i want to play baseball or hockey so i had some a lot of scholarships for baseball so it was kind of like and i had it in my ohl contract that i was allowed to play baseball

so it was like you know like some teams would be like, fuck, no, you can't go to practice. It's playoffs. I was like, playoff practice right to baseball game. It was just in my contract. It was just kind of one of those things. And then at under 18s, I tore my ACL to my draft year. I wasn't able to play my senior year. I wanted to be double drafted and see what happened. And then I kind of all fell apart.

Oh, that'd be a nice one to have on the resume, Tommy Lavin style. Exactly. Just like kind of, oh, yeah, I was also drafted in the 87th round by the fucking Dodgers. Wiz, you played under Pete DuBois, I think, your first year at Plymouth. Yes, right. Are you at all surprised by the success he's had getting two different teams to the Stanley Cup final?

No. Honestly, he's one of my favorite coaches. Him and Mike Vellucci. Obviously, Vellucci took over after Pete, but Pete was unbelievable. I mean, he gets the best out of all of his players, and that's the one thing about him is that he keeps everybody fair, keeps everybody accountable, and knows how to kind of – because we're all not fair, let's be honest.

I mean, fourth liner and a first liner or third pairing, first pairing is not, but you feel like you're treated fairly. And he gets the best out of people, and people love playing for him. I remember World Juniors Halifax. You remember that experience? Oh, yeah. The best, we got to talk to 2-2 once, and I was like, I don't think you understand

like the mental toll you put on me in the game we played against you it was it was incredible i remember the there's this one shift he dumped it in i think i was playing a suitor and dumped it in and you could just hear the crowd just go so you knew he he was coming. You almost just like listened to the crowd. You're like, oh, he's coming. I better not like pick up the spot because he's just going to run me through the fucking wall. Oh, man, I'm telling you, man, that place was just bumping when they were playing.

The next year, though, you actually were part of the gold medal team, right? Yeah. Yeah, we had that when Fleury knocked it in off of the Cobra. We don't talk about that on this podcast. We've made a path. Patrick O'Sullivan has got the celly going in front of him. Yeah, yeah.

Two goals, game winner, didn't touch the puck. It was hilarious. You're another Quebec peewee tourney legend, like the Whit Dog too, right? I went there, yeah. You didn't win it though no oh you want it wet yeah we did i've brought it up one other time on the podcast it's cool to yeah i was wondering when it would come up again one other time about those days oh come on

was your body that bad back then too no i was I was just – I would have taken my body. It was just skinny, but now it's skinny fat. You know what I mean? It's even worse. Your skin hangs off a hanger? It's just like a – I wouldn't wear shorts if I had his body. Why do you think I never take my shirt off anywhere?

I remember there was one podcast you had Shane Doan on and you talked about that hit. Oh. And I wanted to like kind of get on and be like, listen, guys, there's two reasons why that happened. For one, we were on the power play, okay? And it was like a one-on-four, and he tried to toe-drag me. Secondly, people don't realize who my defense partner was. If he would have got by me, for sure scoring chance. It was you.

You're my deflected defense partner. I wasn't on the ice for that. I wasn't on the ice for that hit. Are you sure? Yes. I remember seeing it from the ice, from the bench, and I just said, oh, my God. Because the thing was, Doan never got hit like that.

We talked about it. But then Keith, that's your shit. Sonk man himself. Keith KY Jellies flying at you. I'm like, oh, boy. Because I. Sonk man himself. Keith KY Jelly's flying at you. I'm like, oh, boy. Because I know Wiz can chuck them. Wiz, I'll tell you this. I don't think I've ever been more upset in a game when seeing one of my teammates

get hit when you did that. I was nearly jumping over the boards, and then I fought Peros right afterward. I'm like, not a hit that you want to deliver, but, like, those are the emotions that go through your body when you hit someone's brother. Honestly, that's a great point because most of the time, I never fuck myself. I can always fuck.

Somebody run me, I don't give a fuck. You know, you cross-check me, I don't care. But if somebody does it, like you said, for your brother, it's like you, like, black out. All that's off. The games go down because they know the wires crossed right exactly you're just like fuck you i'm gonna kill you if you do it to me i'm like oh whatever i mean i probably deserved it but i remember hey i remember you were physical

from like the first time we ever played together probably 60 you played hard so it does make sense you went to the ohl fighting right away it was just kind of natural for you yeah i'd say i had six or eight fights my underage year in plymouth and then it just kind of happened and then i kind of stopped fighting for the most part after all my acls yeah so tell people how many how many times have you torn your acl it's a ridiculous number four i've had three i had three on my right and I had all three by the age of 24. So then I was like, well, what? So I was trying to stay away from it.

I had back-to-back years. I was 18 years old, and then I was 23, and then I got healthy, and that was the year I fought Tutu, and I stepped on the stick during the fight in Chicago. And you could see during the fight I lift my leg up and I'm like, ah, fuck, because I heard a big pop. And I'm like – and I'm skating to the bench and my knee locks up. And I'm like, mother, fuck, I did it again.

So I ended up getting an MRI. They said it's only slightly torn. Well, they're not going to tell you anything. So then in that summertime I tore my ACL working out. That was the third time. And I was like, honestly, I can't do this anymore. I want to make a living. I want to play.

So then I kind of just slowed down on the fighting. So then I had one on my left knee when I was 32 my last year in Carolina. So four ACLs, one scope of my – so I've had four surgeries on my right knee. Just the mental grind, man. That's – man, I like would cry. After the third? I cried. I was like, I, like, would cry. After the third. I cried. I was, like, fuck, like, 24 years old.

I just, it was, like, 16 months ago I started, like, I had surgery. Started playing. And I know I have to go back to that. Like, I tell people, I'm, like, oh, you tore your ACL. I can give you rehab easy. I know all the fucking exercises. I know what you need to do all the range of motion all that shit and it's just a time consuming thing and it's just like you said a mental grind

whether you want it or not and you just have to keep going keep going keep going so yeah that was a fucking down part what do you got all right because i want to ask you about norfolk you spent a couple years there you were there with dunk and keith when he was 21 was he already head and shoulders above everybody or did his game still need a little bit of work at that stage you know what dunk was uh he's just very sporadic like he's just his energy is through the roof he is so fucking quick it's unbelievable there's nobody as quick as him everything he does is quick except eat he's the slowest eater in the world it's crazy uh but everything's like so he would would get dressed. We'd go out at, what, 16, I think on the – Yeah.

He starts getting dressed at 21 minutes. Five. So he's got five minutes to get fully dressed. And so everything's like – Transformer. Yeah, I'm telling you. So everything's like that. So going to the pros, it kind of went like that.

And then they just – it's kind of amazing how he really developed into probably maybe a future Hall of Famer. Oh, yeah, that's it, without a doubt. Well, we can't – Two North Trophies, I mean, shit, fuck. What else do you want? Oh, easy stack, man. Yeah, he's done it all.

I'm the stack guy here, Wiz. Oh, sorry. Also, we're not just going to glance over the fact quickly, guys, of Duncan Keith along with the Big Wiz. They used a roll of tape on each ankle, these guys. I got it from you. How did that ever even begin? I got it from him because he's so quick, and I'm like,

I want to be quick. Maybe that's, that's, oh, he's got it. He's got it scientifically down. The forest gum boots on. Yeah. So he would put the thick, the thick roll, you know, like you have the thin white tape or the thin black, he would do three quarters of a roll of tape on each foot.

It was insane. So he was pretty much in a cast. It was like, whoop. I have one more question about that Norfolk team. Now, wasn't that the team that the two goalies absolutely fucking hated each other, Craig Anderson and Michael Aitner, or was it two other goalies? Wasn't it those two? They couldn't even be in the same room together, but they were a tandem?

Drama. Let's go. Ding, ding, ding. All right. We can move along. Yes and no a little bit. I mean, I have no idea what you're talking about. I think they're friendly teammates.

Okay. And I honestly don't know of any backstory I'm hitting that. I just remember a previous guest said they couldn't stand each other. Sometimes when there's smoke, there's smoke, there's fire, all right? Right? You never know. All right. That was the year that we had the fucking bench-clearing brawl against Lowell, too.

Ooh. It was Norfolk against Lowell. It was – I forgot their tough guy's name. Big old lefty. Fuck. Anyway, she grabbed Trent Yanni by the tie when he was rolu rolu was that who was or was he fucking joe rolier is that his name come on wit i'm trying to think of who it was but he grabbed him by the tie and just threw the biggest left and just missed him and we had

three quarters of the team on the ice or off the ice in our locker because, like, in Norfolk, you skate by the – this is the stupidest layout in the world. You skate by the visitor's bench, and they skate by yours. So we're skating by, and then he's chirping to the right, and then he grabs them. And the only people on the ice were me, Vermeer and like two other guys but we had just fucking crazy heavyweights well that whole i mean what you remember back in the day i mean it wasn't

abnormal to have five heavyweights like when people talk about heavyweights now i was like middleweight i guess back in the day i mean we had first roundround Mike Brown, beauty, Sean Thornton, Jim Vandermeer, Travis Moen, and I'd say I was like our fifth maybe. But it was just like those four guys, I was like, Jesus, fuck. Hey, I remember that Moen. Like how did Anaheim steal him from Chicago? Did Chicago never give him a chance? It's one of those things.

Yeah, exactly. That was under the old organization with like, I'm not even going to say the names, I guess, but like Mike Smith. But, I mean, they drafted like eight Russians in a row in the first round. It was like nonstop. The dark years for the Blackhawks. Kurobiev, Babchuk. I mean, it was like, dude, it's not working.

And then you find out that he's got his master's in Russian history. You're like, ah, makes sense. He's a commie. The Americans. Oh, great. Oh, here we go. Igor is going to have a column on this when he gets a hold of that. I was going to go back to to junior

i haven't asked a question in a while and i have to ask you about playing with steven we uh weiss excuse me i was gonna say weiss but that's yeah um weisser was it didn't surprise me that he was a third overall pick a little surprise it didn't kind of take more. I think if the game was more transferred to nowadays, it would have suited him better. But he had some quiet, nasty years in Florida. He did. And then I'm telling you, his vision and skill

was unprecedented. It was incredible. I mean, my underage year, we lost in the OHL finals to Ottawa. And that was one of those things. So we played in Ottawa and that place was fucking rowdy too. They had like Kanopka on their team. Like they had a bunch of just –

Mutant. Silky. Lance Galbraith. Was Lance – Lance Galbraith was on the team. Oh, my. That guy was the biggest scumbag. I would love to get him on this podcast.

I want to meet this guy. Scumbag on the ice. Van Horn or Van Horn? Van who? Oh, I don't always feel the beat. Like, dude, these guys had fucking playoff beards like mountain men. I was like 16 years old. I got my fucking little chin strap.

They were living like rock stars, probably wearing leather jackets off the ice. Like they were hooligans. I mean, it transferred into the way Kanopka played at the pro level. His teams were always a bunch of bullies, and I think he played in Norfolk at some point. I know he played in Syracuse. I was with him in Long Island when we had kind of a shit show team. Oh, God.

We had Gillies, Kanopka. Okay, let's go. And Michael Haley. We had all those guys. But I ended up getting traded before that whole shit storm happened in Pittsburgh. We had Gillies, Canucka, and Michael Haley. We had all those guys. But I ended up getting traded before that whole shitstorm happened in Pittsburgh. Did you cross over with Joel Reckless at all? Joel Reckless.

The wrecker, the most jacked human alive? We're going to get him on at some point. Oh, I don't know if I might have. It's all good. Like fucking DiPietro, fucking absolute shredded. I would be like, Jesus, fuck, man. It's like Men's Health Magazine. I'd make him flex his stomach so I was like, all right, I got to get on the elliptical and fucking do a little bit more.

This guy's just absolutely fucking shredded. What a beauty, too. I love that guy. Hey, Wiz, you were part of the same D-card as Big Buff for a few years. How much of a trip was he as a teammate? Honestly, it's kind of crazy. Other than my first year, Anaheim was a little bit different. All my other teams I played on, the connections were incredible. Anaheim was a little weird. I guess I don't know if the West Coast does that to you, but it was just very clicky.

But when we were in Chicago, I mean, I always say, like, fuck, Patty Kane was an 18-year-old when me and Burrish were, you know, single in Chicago. I almost feel a little bit responsible. Residual. Hello, ladies. Bouncer, he's with me he's good come on in betty so but i mean you had burrish and your lad craig adams versteve buff couple handsome guys too they probably did all right for themselves in their

heyday absolutely some big swing big swinging dicks right there. Shane, Taves. I mean, it was just – it was nonstop. Dunk, Seabs, myself. I think we had Brian Campbell. Matt Walker was an absolute – Oh, my God. What a group.

Were you – I mean, it was incredible. It was the best buff. I mean, it was so – Ben Eager. Ben Eager was on our team. And we had the fucking team. Like, all of us would go, like, 20 deep into a restaurant because we just all loved and enjoyed hanging out with each other.

So, it was heartbreaking to get traded from there? Did you kind of know it was coming? Well, that's one of the things is, you know, when you get kind of stuck and labeled as something, right? So, again, I was kind of labeled as – when I came, it was weird. It was like my first full year, I was playing fourth line forward. And I got in a fight with Travis Moe, which he was one of my really good friends because we played with each other.

So, fought, and then Adrian O'Coin blew his growing out for six weeks during the West Coast trip. So, then they paired me up with Duncan Keith. And me and Duncan were defense partners for 50 games until I tore my second ACL. And that's when they put Seabrook on. Because Duncan, you would always tell, like, fuck, Wiz, I love playing with you. Could have been you, Wiz. I know.

Could have been fucking me. So, I mean, so that's what happened. But anyways, so recovering from all that shit. But we had, I mean, it that's what happened. But anyways, so recovering from all that shit. But we had, I mean, it was just an incredible team. And when I started getting kind of, you know, shot down to like fifth defenseman, go fight, go block shots, all this shit, I'm like, man, I can play a little bit. I'm better than this.

I'm better than this. So I kind of made a decision that was like, I need to move on with my own career, even though I kind of knew what we were, what I was leaving. That's when we both got traded to Anaheim the same year. Yep. And that was a fucking fun year though,

man. Think about playing with nasty too. Three. We played with three hall of famers, like legit first ballot, like Niedermeyer and Solani. No, and Getzoff.

And get, well, it gets, and Perry might be in the hall of fame. Exactly. I mean, it was like, Niedermeyer, and Solani. No, and Getzlaff. Well, Getzlaff. And Perry might be in the Hall of Fame. Exactly. I mean, it was like, shit, Bobby Ryan. Fuck you. I'm like, dude, how good was Hiller?

We go into San Jose and beat him in the first two games. Oh, my God. They're President's Trophy winners, and they're like, oh, this is their year. Whop, slip in the first round. By the eighth seed. That was probably the coolest. Well, I guess going to the cup final was great. But being the eighth seed to beat that San Jose team,

gets left, fought Thornton. We just shocked the world. And then we gave Detroit. We went to game seven. And they went and Pittsburgh beat them, obviously. Thanks, Witt. Suck on that, Kunitz. But, man, that team was loaded that was a lot

of fun sorry ra i interrupted you there i know you're looking i almost died in that series i got a fucking puck in the ribs and i was coughing up blood on the ice i remember you lit up that one time or hosa i was like jesus a big boy i know you never want to gnar a swiss but how was your experience with randy carlisle well i? I played with Scott Niedermeyer and Whit played with Pronger. Unless it was blatantly your fault, I was fine. I was going to say,

Scotty, wake the fuck up! Shut up, Randy. You just go D to D to Norm and all of a sudden it's out of the zone. Scotty, skate it up the ice for me real quick. Thank you. Ask Whit, man. eat an arm and all of a sudden it's out of the zone scotty stated up the ice for me real quick thank you i mean that guy was that's wit man like it was incredible he would wear a light gray shirt like just like a shirt like this you know that movie sweat where it has like in the in the midst of your like that that's what it would be he's like oh i played 32 minutes a little tired hair completely dry little sweat 23. I'm just like.

I played 27. I'm like, nah, it says 21.58. You're like, oh, my God. Don't give me those chocolate chip muffins anymore on the way to the ring. Let's stop spending so much time on goldenrod Starbucks. What a view. Wes, we just saw Andre Markoff officially retired. Of course, he left the NHL a couple years ago,

played in Russia for a couple years. Do you think he might have been perhaps your most underrated peer? Like he just quietly for 16 years was one of the best defensemen in the league? Yeah, I would say one of the reasons is, for one, it's like playing for the Yankees and never winning. You're so highly touted as an organization, and then if nothing comes to fruition, it's kind of one of those things where, eh, you didn't really do it for them. But game in game, I mean, shit, that guy must have averaged high 40 points.

I mean, he was.6 probably points a game his whole career,.6 something. He was a machine. He was automatic. He was a machine. That's the best thing you could say about him is that he wasn't real physical, but neither was Nick Littstrom. Nick Littstrom never hit a soul. But the thing is, he would play – he would shut down your first line

and then have a goal and assist. You're like, how the fuck do you do that? Usually you can do one or two things. Like, all right, you know, you shut down and then that's your job. And then you let your skill guys try to go out and do that, but they do both. You're like, all right, I'm going to shut them down, and then when it's my time to shine on the power play, I'm going to fucking let you have it it what was he like off the ice like just like he loved the

nice restaurants like russian dressed nice when i was there that was the year that josh georges and him both tore their acl so that's why they traded for me because i was in fucking long island we've maxed out on ACL stories for the podcast here. I know, right? Seriously. Holy shit. What are we at here? You're the Kevin Bacon

of torn ACLs. Let's throw my two in there, too. Fuck, we're at nine. Let's go. This is so funny because I have a buddy that's like, I only know your stories

by when you tell me between what ACL. It's like, oh, that was between my third and my fourth. And you're like, oh, okay, so you're like 28. You know, because I always tell these stories. Oh, it was my third ACL.

Anyway, so those guys were hurt, and so they kind of rented me. And that's when they're kind of benching P.K. Subban or whatever. And then those injuries happened. I came on, and then our power play was pretty incredible. Actually, that uh placonic was a very underrated player too i don't know if he got enough credit for the two-way you know other than his fucking mock tee that he wore like alexei yashi you guys give it to him a lot dude did you just cut that like come on man like really a turtleneck like we had the logo of the

habs it was just like you just you're pissing people off just by the way you look Like, come on, man. Like, really? A turtleneck? Like, we had the logo of the Habs. We had the logo of the Habs. It was just like, you're pissing people off just by the way you look. So... Did you ever officially retire? Did you ever make an announcement? I know some guys do, some don't. I know your contracts are all cashed out, so you don't have to hang off of that. All right, that's hilarious that you say that, because I was, I remember looking at my wife and Mike,

I supposed to like, like, how do I announce my retirement? I don't know. We even know that I retired. Maybe I'm still looking for a free job coming in the next year. But yeah, I mean,

I never, no, I never really, nobody gives a fuck about me. It never ends the way you think it's going to end. We can break it on chicken. That's your Ray Bork. Dude,

honestly, you're right, man. It was like one of those things where, boom, injury, bought out, went to Tampa Bay's training camp, and then I went to Russia, went to the Spangler Cup, went to the minors, went to Germany, went to the Olympics, gone. I was like, what the fuck just happened? It happens so quick you're just like wait can i not skate anymore yeah i'm like i don't know what's this a puck honestly i was like and

then i'm then i coached women's osu hockey this year i'm like this is great i get back on the ice i'm like falling over i'm kind of like girls are looking at me like, Jesus Christ. NHL wasn't that good back in the day. Yeah, I know. I was doing my prep work. I was Googling. I couldn't find – you know, most guys, a lot of times, they release a statement through the union and stuff.

So I hope I didn't scratch a wound you didn't watch. All right, you can do that for me. You'd be like, hey, officially tonight – I wish it was yesterday on 420. That would have been way better 420 was newsky officially retired but you didn't get my text still 421 you can say that i think i gotta talk about you got a couple a couple of the biggest finds in nhl history don't you i i think my my the last one at one point was the biggest one in sports history other than getting teams. Like a Formula One team, you get fined $2 million.

That's not the driver. Yeah, I had a $230,000 fine against Seabrook. That sucked because he was one of my best friends. And that was just unfortunate. What was the text right after the game? Or did you walk over? Well, I tried to kind of be like, well, I mean, back it up. The whole story was.

It wasn't that bad of a hit. We're like, whiz. Yeah. Here was the problem. He's one of my best friends. I was like, I don't want to go down there and beat him up so i'm just gonna hit him and unfortunately that turned into that so i got eight games 230 000 and then since i was a repeat offender i had an incident with

sean avery that caused me to be a repeat offender, might have been a gesture, I guess. Oh, yeah. You live and you learn. It was fuck whatever. We're not going to hammer on you for it. We know you've learned. You were going to say you parked the bike in the wrong lane.

Right. Wait, the fine, though, that's like, so you'd have to make double that, right? I mean, that's just taking it from you. So in taxes. Well, then I signed a six-year big contract, my free agent year with Columbus, and we're in like an exhibition game, and Cal Clutterbuck in Minnesota hammers Fetter tootin'. So I go over there and I cross-check him, knock him down.

There's like 10 seconds left. It's tied. And I like want to fight because it's fucking exhibition. It gives a shit. That's the one thing like you don't care about exhibition game. You want to set a precedent. So something happened where, you know, the play came and I saw somebody coming out of the corner of my eye.

So I just went like that to try to protect myself. And I, you know, elbow to the head or whatever. He played on the power play. No big deal. They ended up winning in overtime. I get four-game regular season, eight-game – sorry, four-game preseason, eight-game regular season, $536,000 fine. Ooh, shit.

First year signing. I'm like, well, I thought that was a good contract. There goes some of that. We should play a game that what would R.A. do for that amount of money? That's going to be our new segment. What could R.A. do with Wiz's fine money? What was the gesture with Avery? What did that one ding you for?

About $98,000. Holy – so you're over a million. Yeah, I'm like 900. Because then I over a million. I'm at, yeah, I'm like 900. Cause then I crushed Jack Samuelson in the throat. I got me a million, two games for the Shane Doan. Oh my God.

You should be in prison. Seriously. I'm like, I mean, I think I have 23 games of suspension or something like that. They don't always, I mean, do you,

you'll say you dirty player or you say you play hard. I play with an edge. I play with an edge. Thank you. Thank you, RA. Well, the thing is that we're always brought up like cut to the fucking middle. I'm going to take your head off. Don't do that.

Now they kind of like teach that. The thing is that I don't care if you do that to me. I deserved it, but I'm not going to do it because I just know better. But the thing about hockey is like what what i hate what's killing sports in my opinion if you want to get deep if you want to get deep what's killing sports is fucking instant replay instant replay we play a sport that's a warrior sport just like football you're gonna, oh, watch this hit. Ready? And here he got him into that. Dude, you think I'm fucking thinking that? The last thing I'm thinking is like, shit, this guy's going to get around me.

I need to get a piece of him. I'm not thinking, oh, I'm going to elbow him in the head or hit him in the head. I just don't want him to go by me. That's the biggest thing. And then when you slow things down, it's like with a power play. This is my favorite is when fucking piece of shit coaches don't know anything about the game and they're like

see this right no hold on one more frame right there you see that lane now if you play that in fucking real time the stick's going like this but he paused it when it's over there you're like look at that lane you should have passed it yeah right there you're a fraction of a second a fraction of a second like that's all the time that we have to make a decision that's why like people like you have major league pitcher throwing a fucking nasty 93 mile an hour slider well the guy swings at it and you're like what an idiot you're like dude so so the conversation you're the conversation you're kind of starting is are we tailoring the game away from what it should be

and and we're kind of bending the bar too far correct we're turning into a fucking soft society that's the problem fucking warrior i agree i mean do we all don't want to have a fucking um you know a man bun and some fucking like some skinny jeans that are up to my knees. Hey, unless, honest though, but unless, if Elias Pedersen, if he decided to wear that, I mean, he's nasty enough. You could pull that off. Sure. I'm not giving anybody hardship at all. I'm just saying people are like, how nasty is this sport nowadays?

How skilled are they? I'm like, they're very skilled. But they don't have a Brian McGratton going up to you and just absolutely fucking wearing like bam i bet you i dare you to fucking toe drag through the middle again i'll fucking kill you and the rest of your whole bench it is it is well two things first about instant replay i actually thought you were going to even mention how for for for is it off sides that type stuff i hate it's like oh my god so i'll give you that the other the other aspect is um if you're watching like today's society in hockey you see how skilled guys are and you see the speed and how fun it is

but it is way easier to be that skilled when you're not worried about getting lit up. That's what I'm saying. And I think that that's kind of slowly started to happen. And so the guy can be the most skilled player in the world. You'd see a summer hockey player, and all of a sudden things got physically disappeared. So it does certainly lend it and make it easier for guys to just turn on the jets and do whatever they want. I feel like a lot of the emotion has left the game, especially in the regular season where a lot of it is like,

hey, if you're into watching a ballet and love the skill aspect, then it's okay. The beauty of the art of the game. Yeah, yeah. I'm down with that, but I also like it more on the physical side. I want to see you earn it. I want to fucking – Hey, that's why I like watching lacrosse those fucking guys they're crazy i'll be like oh my god he slashed

him 19 times he's like what what what and i'm like oh my god i would have been like fucking enough we're fighting i don't even have nuts that hairy. I don't think I would survive lacrosse. I'm with you on that. So some guys, like, there's just two different crowds. I mean, I'm a huge baseball fan. People hate seeing a 1-0 game. I fucking love it. That's a chess match. I love that.

That's a chess match. And it's quick, too. It's quick, and the thing is, it's's like guy gets a single, fuck, all right, let's do the intentional, you know, the bunt. Let's get him over to second. Let's get a base hit two times. Try to make it 1-0. That's all it is.

That's playoff fucking. It's not like, well, so what I'm getting at, I know, like a little tangent, but how many games did you play in that you played an 8-6 fucking hockey game? Cheers. Never, really. Never. I mean, I got blown out 6-1, 7-2. It was never really run and gone both ways ever.

That's what I'm saying. It was one way or the other. One team might have a lot. This defenseman is so good. He got 60 points. And I'm like, dude, they play in fucking six, four games every night. There's no like – as good as they are, as good as they are offensively, that's all bad.

They don't give a fuck about defense. They don't block shots like they need. Why do you think John Tortorella has the Blue Jackets in a playoff spot and they have like eight of their starting guys out of out of the lineup because he makes you fucking buy in what wins his team and block the hardship that's what it is I mean the thing is all these teams are like hey let's win eight six I'm like I've never seen that before you know if there's like oh man you get 50 points as a defenseman that was like something we keep talking about on this podcast like the hard game

i mean washington yeah they were skilled but they were tough as shit too and so was so was vegas and so were the kings teams the fucking chicago teams were fucking big right Right. I mean, like, Taves plays a man's – Taves is undersized as a number one center in the West, but he plays a man's game. I mean, you look at Anaheim when they were successful. You had Getzey. You had – you know, their fourth line when they had the fucking Stanley Cup. They had, like, Thornton, Brad Marchant, and George Peros with Brad May

sitting out and then going in and out. You could talk about it all you want, but they're a little thick-skulled. Like, there's like a little battle going on. People – the hard game wins. And it's proven over the last 10 years. Show me anything. Why do you think Boston's always in there, no matter what? They're always in the fucking mix because they play hard.

They buy in. They know how it is. I mean, the only thing I could say, the team that forever that just – but they just had such good players is Detroit. I would just say because Nick Littstrom, I mean, he's top. But they were hard to play against in a different way, man. Right. They just moved the puck so well.

And they also had that grind line like McCarty. They did have some elements and like constantino at the first year they were tougher than people gave them credit for yeah but what i wanted to get into is you because you mentioned that crazy year beginning of the year in long island you go to montreal then you sign your ticket so man that year you had over 50 points what timing on two different org and two on two different teams to have that happen UFA year. I mean, it was – it's funny you say that. So it was to the point where we were talking about leaving Chicago because I'm like I have better than this, right?

So I go to Anaheim and then me and you were defense partners our first year and we were on the second power play unit. I mean, how are you going to pass up Scottie and Chris Pronger? I was like, fuck, Randy, get me out there. These fucking bums. We got seven seconds and then they changed the first line. They dubbed the ice. They dubbed the puck.

We're like, all right, guys, we got 21 seconds. Let's get a rush in. It's going to be great. But then, you know, the second year, you know, it was me, you, then you went to Edmonton for Mishnofsky. Yep. And then it was to the point where Randy – sorry. Dave Farrish?

No, the GM. Bob Murray. Bob Murray was like, we're going to wait for Scott Miedemeyer to decide whether to retire or come back. And that's what we'll know we're going to wait for Scott Niedermeyer to decide whether to retire or come back. And that's what we'll know we're assigning you because I'm going to say what Bob Murray told me. So he goes, Scott, he loves playing with you. I'm like, holy shit, this is fucking great. Owner.

Started jerking off right away. The jerkins. So we're going to wait for his retirement. So I'm like, i get married in july and then we go on our honeymoon to hawaii and fiji trying to get our deal done because i'm a restricted free agent and then come back we sign i go to the three days later i go you know i go to the gym then i come back i got like 23 fucking phone calls from the same number i'm like that's not good so i call up and it's uh mcnabb and he's like hey where's we uh traded you to the islanders

and i'm like all right looks like honey i know you're from california but we're going in the island here we go so we go there unfortunately we're supposed to be pretty damn good. And then at training camp, the same orange and blue game, we had Ocposo and Mark Strait get hurt. So they're out for the end. In a scrimmage? In a scrimmage. Inner squad scrimmage.

That's brutal. Out for the year. One torn – both, I think, torn labrums. And we're like – and Straight was like, that's another – all right, that's another fucking underrated defenseman that played for a long time. It's going to turn into like a medical podcast. Yeah, exactly.

We're like a collab here. But here's the best thing, man. So this is what happens is that you get your opportunities. Like I was telling you when O'Coin got hurt, it got me into the NHL full time. So then there was nobody else to play top power play. Then it was me. So I think I had somewhere around, I don't know, tell me my first 30 games in Islanders, like 22 points-ish?

Yeah, 21 and 32 games to start the year. Okay, so then – Dash 18, I'll say, but that's a wit stat. We can cut that. Empty net goals, here we go. Empty net goals, thank you. When you're on a shit fucking team, when you're on a shit team and you're the offensive defenseman, who gets the fucking minus?

You do. So that's what people don't understand that's what that's your rule change it should be a rule change because you get that bum guys that are defensive defensemen and they're on an unbelievable team they're plus 40 you're like yeah because you're on the ice well the other team has an empty net and you score a goal so whatever anyways so then i get traded to montreal while the other team has an empty net and you score a goal. So, whatever. Anyways, so then I get traded to Montreal. Then I get traded to Montreal, and I think I had 30 points in 40 games

or something like that. So that was a good thing. And, honestly, that was so much fun to be in that city playing well and not knowing French because if they're talking shit about you on the internet or you know. And they are. So where

are you hugging down right now, Wiz? Where are you living? I am in Columbus, Ohio. That's what I was going to ask you now. You played there obviously for a few years. Were you really happy to see the organization have some success and the region have some success last year in the playoffs?

Well, you know, honestly, the city is very loyal. Obviously, OSU, Buckeyes is their shit, right? Then you have a split between Cleveland and Cincinnati with football and baseball teams. I mean, they're dying to have a good team.

So to be able to see them get that finally, that's why it was kind of interesting to see what was going to happen here this year, whether they're going to be able to pull it off or if they still are. Do you guys think they're going to have the season? I'm 50-50. Biz, what do you got? I don't – I wasn't prepared for that question and i was waiting to ask you one so i i'm a little fucked up right now all right perfect sometimes i

forget what i want to ask so i have to keep re-saying it my head over right yeah i get it i was thinking i think what they should do is here's what i said and i said this on a whim i was like in august beginning of august have a 10 week or 10 day training camp start start the uh the right uh end of the season have the 10 games in 20 days so every other day fucking bust it out september october play play the playoffs november december off uh january 3, have training camp for two weeks and do what we did during the lockout. No.

48 games. No, TV deal. I think the TV deal kicks in next year. I don't think full season. They want the full season. Not happening, but it's a business. This is a business. Yeah, see.

People want to bitch online. Tell them to shut the fuck up. It's a business at some point. That's all it is. They want to bitch online tell them to shut the fuck up it's a business at some point that's all the reason they want they want to make it work because i think the players want to retrieve the the the money they're gonna have to pay back of course absolutely but i think and and what sucks is like there's going to be a few guys where maybe that was going to be their last year and that was their opportunity to make some decent money it's very unfortunate it sucks but like at some point somebody's's going to have to lose.

It's a lose-lose situation right now. And let's be honest. The owners want the players to lose. That's just fucking plain and simple. They're businessmen. They don't have billions. They don't go to the rink and be like, hey, guys, I own the Boston Bruins because I own the Boston Bruins.

It's because I want to make some fucking money, and I have a power control issue. I think this might be the rare occasion, though, where everyone's sort of on the same page, though. I think everyone's basically pulling in the same direction. Everyone just wants to play the play. Leonis we talk about. Yeah.

What are you sipping on, by the way? I meant that from the get-go. What do you got for red? I got a little Rubicon 2005. What style of wine? It's a Cabernet. Cabernet, okay. Napa Valley Cab.

You actually showed me a couple of funny pictures. So Wiz lives on Muirfield in Dublin, Ohio, Jack Nicklaus' course, one of the sickest golf courses in the country. We're going to talk about our golf? You became really good friends with Jason Day, huh? Yeah, he's actually, yeah. So Jay lives out in Westerville, so he's an unbelievable guy, and he was out playing here until, oh, my God,

you should see his practice facility at his house. So he used to be out here all the time. He comes out here quite a bit now, but he's got four or five greens, like Augusta Green, St. Andrews Green. Like all outside, like sick grass that somebody comes over and takes care of? Like Double Eagle. You know, John McConnell, they own Double Eagle, and it's top 100 course in the U.S.

The assistant superintendent goes over and does all his shit. Oh, my goodness. His greens run at like a 12, 12 and a half. What does he make off before he hits a golf ball in a year? Like, are those guys making like $10, $15 million on endorsements only? More. Holy shit. Jason Day is so consistent, probably $30 million.

They get like Rolex and shit, those guys. So here's the funny thing is that he'll tell me or whatever, but nobody knows. None of that stuff's public. No. Nobody knows. None of that stuff's public. No.

So the thing is that Jason, through Nike, not saying this is even possible, could negotiate more than Tiger or Brooks Koepka. It just depends on how your agent works it, right? But Koepka doesn't know it. You know what I mean? Because nobody – it's not like hockey. It's bad for the players when it's like that.

Correct. It's really bad because then it's a doggy dog. Like that's all it is. That's why you see guys switching like that. Kepka's marketable. He's got an opinion too. He's a fucking – he's a bulldog. He's a bulldog.

I fucking love it. See that loser? Golf needed that. Yep. Loser trying to go at him. He tweeted out a picture of a steak and asparagus with a glass of wine in it. And some loser was like calling him out like he was a showoff. It's like, buddy, it's a fucking steak.

You would have thought he was eating condor eggs off a fucking yacht in the Mediterranean the way the guy was acting. All right. Buzzing. Oh, I got to ask you about the OSU girls hockey team. Yes. You're a coach now. I know.

I was assistant coach, and then all this shit happened. We actually went in and won our first conference championship, which is like a huge deal. Hey, congrats. Is this your way of asking for a pay grade? Yeah, it is. I'm actually going to get a fucking big-ass fucking Buckeye ring. Nice. Yeah, it's. I'm actually going to get a fucking big-ass fucking Buckeye ring. Nice.

Oh, yeah, it's WCHA. We beat Minnesota in the semifinals and then Wisconsin in the finals. You were going to be at the Final Four? Well, we had to go play Minnesota for the Elite Eight, and then if we would have won, we would have been. But we were four and three against Minnesota for the year, so it was kind of a point gosh. It was going to be a good game to match.

That stinks. That sucks. Were the guys number one too? Is that the school that both had teams in the number one? No, that's Cornell, all right. Okay, that's right. Close. Red uniforms, you know.

Red and white. Where's Cornell? Cornell's in Ivy League. Ohio State will let it. Wiz could have got into Ohio State. Is Cornell in Ohio? Yeah, I was fucking Scholastic Player of the Year four years in a row for Plymouth.

Yeah, and the O. If you're Scholastic Player of the Year in the O, it just means you can read. Yeah, I was Scholastic Player of the Year for the spirit. Yeah, but I don't think you can read. I almost failed out of current events it you had to bring a newspaper article every day and you had to like describe what it said like your your interpretation is too big you couldn't remember fucking 10 minutes ago yeah no i just never did the work i was in in grade nine geography. I almost failed that. My state's in capitals.

Like, it was, yeah, it was, it was, the school's fucked. I had to live at home, though, Biz, because you guys had to live with a billet. And then you're becoming your, like, friends-ish. Yeah. So then it's to the point where it's like. You spend half your time trying to avoid them so you can beat off. Like, you're like. It's like, dude, dude, dude. It's like Mission Impossible through the goddamn house.

Hand a cardboard towel to your fucking billet mom. Did you watch that? That's like when you're just like, you leave all the Kleenex under the bed. You're just a rat. I moved your hockey socks for you. Those aren't my hockey socks. The cardboard cutout under

the bed. That's a champion. I want to change that carpet. Hey, Wiz, you ended up in Russia, man. How'd you end up doing 16 games there? Was it a disaster? Were you finishing up the year? What was the deal with that?

You don't want to open up. Yeah, I mean, oh my God, I got a funny story about that. So they offered me a 10-week deal. So I got released from Tampa training camp and then again, after my fourth ACL.

So there you go, Biz biz got you for it um this is one of the fucking funniest stories i have i don't know i hope you guys find it as funny as me but so i just teed yourself up so it kind of has no pressure no pressure that's how this works in this game. It's like Dumble. Dumble at the top of the dive. So I get a – end of October I get a – Jonathan Blum gets hurt in Vladivostok. And they need an offensive partner. So they give me a 10-week contract for like $130,000 or something. I'm like – they give me a flight and I'm like, all right,

I have to bump up to business class because I go to Columbus, to Atlanta, contract for like 130 000 or something i'm like they give me a flight and i'm like all right i have to bump up to business class because i go to columbus to atlanta atlanta to amsterdam amsterdam to croatia and then sit there for a couple days and then try to get my russian visa and then i have to go to vladivostok i don't know if you guys know where vladivostok is it's like a three-hour drive from North Korea. It's on the fucking way eastern side of Russia. So you were on the amazing race is what you're saying.

People don't realize how big fucking Russia is. There's like 12 time zones. In the US, we have five or six. You got to think like, and that's counting to Hawaii. You got to thinkussia is twice as long as that anyways so give my kids wife kiss goodbye i'm like all right i go to the doctor i'm like

listen doc um i'm going to russia time zones i need fucking ambien because i need to sleep everybody's got an ambient story right um so he's like all right i would give you you know i got 10 milligrams 30 perfect so being a you know entrepreneur you know or uh um someone yay of uh of ambient uh so you know i get my flight from columbus and atl Atlanta and I got about an hour layover. So I'm going to the Delta Lounge and I'm like 40 minutes. Perfect. I'm like Pac-Man fucking some wine.

I'm going to get knocked out. It's going to be great. Get on the plane. I'm going to go into my get my skins on. Get my fucking Lululemon shit on. I got my Ugg slippers.

Oh, nice. I am fucking – You're getting ready for bed. You're getting ready for bed on the bird. It's fucking lined up. I'm going from Atlanta to Amsterdam. I'm lined up. And I'm like, I'm not really feeling it.

It was like 45 minutes. I'm like, fuck. Ah, fuck it. Another one. Fuck it. Fucking Pac-Man. like 45 minutes i'm like fuck ah fuck it i'm another one fuck it fucking patch man i'm like uh man can i get a glass of wine please sure you know i'm sipping on my wine take off right you know and i started getting the comfy position you know i got those pods or whatever so you lay back i'm like halfway through my two-hour movie i like fuck am I on Wolf of Wall Street or something

like would I these like nothing's happening fucking I don't want more I'm fucking 30 milligrams and I'll get a scotch this time this is gonna really kick it in this is gonna kick it in this is where it gets a little

hazy a little hazy so I mean i'm like all this shit like i really can't tell you much what happens after all i remember is like wake up you know and granted don't forget key of the story is that i have my lululemon, my skins, my Uggs on, all that shit, right? And everything else was tucked in. So I land. I'm like, ooh, ooh, all right. Look down.

I got my fucking jeans on, nice shirt. You know, I still have my Uggs on, which is fucking weird, but whatever. So, you know, okay. So you wait until everybody's a little quiet, you know. It's 7 in the morning. I get it. Okay. All right. So's 7 in the morning. I get it. All right. So we get to the gate. Bing.

Get up. Go to my fucking thing. Reach in. I'm like, what the fuck is my blue lemon shit all over the place? Stuff in my bag. Get my shoes. I'm like, you know when you start sweating because you're like, shit, people are waiting for you?

Fucking get my shoes on. I fucking like tie them up look up and i'm like nobody's fucking standing everybody's sitting sure enough i look at the you know like you know those big planes where it's like like single pods and then the two pods down the middle so there's two two lanes and i look and I'm like, Oh fuck. They're in my mind. I'm like, here comes like two military guys through the plane. And like, they start walking right towards me. I'm like, Oh boy. The fuck did I do? They're like, Mr. Wisniewski, please come with me.

And you know, obviously an accent. It's like, Mr. Wisniewski, please come with me. Obviously, an accent is like, I don't know, a fucking Deutsch accent or whatever. I'm like, oh, fuck. I grab my bag and I'm like, what the fuck? Everybody's like, what the fuck is going on? Judging you?

Hardcore judging me. That's a word we need. They started clapping when he got dragged off the plane i have no idea what the fuck's going on i got fucking military guys with fucking carbines like oh not pointing at me but like sir come with what they say to you but this gets better so i'm walking up the the uh the uh what's called the turmoil whatever it's called terminal thing whatever gangway yeah and then all of a

sudden i'm not kidding you guys i just never saw this coming they like hit the wall this white wall and it fucking just went super slide it slid open they just dragged me right through and i'm like what the fuck and i was in like a white interrogation room and i'm like holy fuck what the fuck is going on they're like sir uh give me your passport i'm like no i'm like, holy fuck. What the fuck is going on? They're like, sir, give me your passport. I'm like, no. I'm like, I'm not giving you my fucking passport. I'm like, I've seen way too many movies to know that I'm going to give you my fucking passport. So then you can keep me here for whatever.

And I'm like, what the fuck did I do? Like, what am I getting apprehended for? And they're like, you don't know. You have no recollection of what happened. I'm like, sir, no. I'm like, I could have been doing naked cartwheels down the fucking aisle. All I know. I have no fucking idea.

And they go, it's close to that. And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, they're like, well, supposedly when you're asked to get up, you decide to get naked and just get dressed, undressed, and dressed in front of everybody. And when being told to stop, you go, well, fuck you. I'm just getting dressed. Mind your own business.

And I'm like. You were Wolf of Wall Street. I was Wolf of Wall Street. Oh, my God. So then I'm like, sir, i'm like i i swear i was taking some sleeping pills and like they're like were you on anything i'm like yeah i have sleeping pills i'm like i sure so i'm like pan i'm fucking like sweating i'm like panicking i'm in amsterdam i'm like well if you're gonna apprehend me if i can't like make it like can we go

anyways red light district or something but anyways so different pills for that stop i get my pills that i'm like all right i start with 30 i have 25 and a half left i'm like oh fuck so i ended up taking 45 milligrams of ambien and i was just fucking psyched out. You could actually have no clue. No, I have no idea. I've heard some good stories, but that might be the top of the list. So the guy's like, well, we're going to have to get the pilot in to see if he can take you to the next stop.

So I have to go from Amsterdam to Croatia, Zagreb. And I was like, all right, whatever. So they bring the pilot, and he looks at me. He's like, no, he's okay to fly because I'm flying business class. He's like, as long as he doesn't drink. And I'm like, fuck that. I'm like, I'm kidding, guys. The guys were like, you can't joke around.

I'm like, I thought it was kind of funny at the time. Yeah, that's true. I'm going to get fucking detained in Amsterdam. Well, at least put me in a red light district so I can – when I was getting naked on an airplane. Imagine flying with fucking Ernie Els and Wiz. Getting fucking shit kicked out of you. Real weird.

Ernie kicks the shit out of you, and then you got to lay next to Wiz, and he's naked. Well, Wiz, dude, this has been unbelievable. We could go on. There'll be a round two probably in person. Dude, that was like the quickest hour ever, dude. But we can't. We got to do a golf match.

Me and Hartnell. Oh, yeah. Biz, he wants in. Sure, Hartnell. Sandbagger. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're telling me Hartnell. Here, let me put my sunglasses back on here. You're telling me Hartnell. Here, let me put my sunglasses back on here.

You're telling me Hartnell wants to do some content with Spittin' Chicklets because I highly doubt that he'll want to be on camera. Well, I mean, I would say I can't believe he does the NHL Network. I would be on radio if I had a fucking piece of him. If he will do a fucking sandbagger with us, I would gladly have him. I would be shocked if he did it i think he's too famous for us or if he won't do it you and bull versus me and biz perfect it wait here there it is if he's too famous to do it scott hartnell then we'll have to settle for jared bull

no offense bowler he broke my nose so fuck him i. I can jerk him on here. All right, well, Wiz, thank you so much. We will definitely catch up with you soon again, and stay healthy, dude. All right, boys. Big thanks to James Wisniewski for joining us. That was a fun chat. We'll have to have him back again. First, I want to talk to you about Audible for a second.

Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks, ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, news, business, and self-development. Every month, members get one credit to pick any title, two Audible originals from a monthly selection, access to daily news digests from the Wall Street Journal to the Washington Post, and guided meditation programs. Audible also has podcasts, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances, A-list comedy, and exclusive Audible originals you won't find anywhere else. There are thousands

of selections. And these days, we could all use the escape that a great story provides. It can be tough for many to make the time to curl up with a book these days, but with Audible, you can listen to audiobooks any place at any time at your leisure, or even while you're commuting, cooking, or exercising. So visit audible.com slash chicklets or text chicklets to 500-500. Again, that's visit audible.com slash chicklets or text chicklets, C-H-I-C-L-E-T-S to 500-500. Hopefully people check that out. Always need a good story for an escape these days. And I'm sure Islanders fans would love an escape once again because they're in the news yet again. These poor fans, they thought they were going to get one more year at the Coliseum, which kind of came out of nowhere. But the team owner,

what's his name, Prokhorov, the other Russian billionaire, he decided they're going to shut the building down. They, you know, there's nothing going on right there. They don't want to spend the money to keep it open. So it looks like the team's going to have to go back to Brooklyn. Of course, the playoffs don't matter if they're playing in a bubble this year. But next season, they were planning on having one final season at the Coliseum, and it doesn't look like that's going to happen anymore. So our sympathies to Frankie Borelli and the rest of his Islander friends. But that's a bummer.

That fucking team, man. It's also true that construction on the new stadium is going to get delayed, so they could even get stuck in Brooklyn for even more than a season, depending on how that pans out. But what about the good news for frankie burley granelli uh yeah burley is moving on to the next round this friday we have daddy padre versus the nj devil two of the best uh nhl 20 players in the world so that will be a matchup for the ages on tuesday night we had nasher and r Ryan Reeves of the Vegas Golden Knights. Nasher took him down, so Nasher will be moving on as well.

And with the NHL, you know, really amping up their return to play here, some of the guys that originally committed to play in the tournament aren't going to be able to play going forward. So just follow all of our social channels, and we'll let you know what's going on there, and we'll keep you guys posted. That's a nice way of saying Bennington pigeon-tossed us. But guess what? He's got bigger fish to fry.

And going back to the Ruschke and with the Islanders, fucking Pagula, hold my beer. These Islanders, this is like the song episode to all the fans of the Islanders and the Sabres. So a couple shit sandwich for those fan bases. Yeah, it sucks, man. That Coliseum, they just should have redid the place from the get-go. I mean, all the money and the time they've wasted with it,

but those poor fans, they've been nothing but loyal either. Every year, it's just you have no clue what's coming next with them. Yeah, exactly. Fucking drama. We talked about the Greater Toronto Hockey League last episode and how former players and current players wanted them to change their policy as far as releasing information about gross misconduct penalties related for racist or other discriminatory comments and well they did our turnabout and they did release the numbers now that I don't think people are asking to release

names I think they just wanted some statistics just to kind of keep people aware that this is going on so they did they released the statistics about what's going on they're going to host a town hall and you know it's late but I guess better late than never, huh, Biz? Yeah. And great job by Kevin Weeks and the rest of the gang who talked about it. Yeah. Another issue they talked about, which I thought was interesting, was music in the locker rooms because, you know, kids decide what the music's going to be, but, you know, rap is huge. It's been huge for 20 years. And obviously some of the language is troublesome. And it was interesting because everybody had a different perspective on it.

Some people think, you know, you should fucking be on all music, put on the headphones, you know, play the clean versions of songs. There's so many options, man. It just kind of this whole like new can of worms that, you know, stuff we hadn't talked about or thought about before. And I'll talking about, all right, boys. Yep. All right. We got one more interview for you. Richard Jefferson, like I said,

and that interview is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Despite everything that's going on, there are still some good things to appreciate, like what ZipRecruiter is doing. They're continuing to do what they've always done, helping people find jobs and helping growing companies hire for their teams. If you're a job seeker, ZipRecruiter is focused on helping you find work faster.

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from delivering food and goods to health care and so much more. By bringing people together, people who need jobs and companies that need people. ZipRecruiter is committed to helping our workforce stay strong. Let's work together. Visit ZipRecruiter.com slash work together to learn more. All right, gang. Now we're going to send it over to Richard Jefferson, veteran of 17 NBA seasons. Well, our next guest played in the NBA for 17 seasons and racked up over 1,300 regular

season and playoff games for eight different clubs. A first round pick in the 2001 draft, he made the all-rookie team in 2002 as he helped the New Jersey Nets reach new heights as a franchise. And of course, in 2016, he helped the Caval Nets reach new heights as a franchise. And of course, in 2016, he helped the Cavaliers win their first title in franchise history, as well as bringing Cleveland its first championship in 52 years and one of the more thrilling finals in recent history. It's a pleasure to welcome to Spittin' Chicklets, Richard Jefferson. What's going on, guys? How are you guys doing, man?

Thanks for having me. I just want to let you guys know off the drop, the only reason why I even do podcasts, especially going to other people's podcasts is so I can get those type of intros. Those types of intros just never get old. I was going to say, I was going to ask if you ever had one like that, but I guess these are old hat for someone like you. I wouldn't say old hat, but a lot of times when you're getting introduced to a new audience, that's when they kind of give your little resume of like why the hell you should pay attention to this individual uh we actually call them tire pumps in our industry like oh that was nice oh tire pump oh okay okay we just call it gas we're like tummy sticks okay okay so i should use that term tummy

sticks okay when i'm okay that was going to be one of the questions I had. Like, what are some of these basketball terms? Like, you know, we call the females that fall around the hockey players and like them for other reasons than just their ability to play hockey, we call them puck bunnies. Like, what are some other terms in basketball that our hockey audience might want to hear of? They like to call it the work.

That's probably the most recent. You just call it the work, right? It's just self-explanatory inside most communities. Unbelievable. So what have you been doing to stay busy during this crazy quarantine shit? Where are you holding up? So, you know, I have a podcast. I'm held up in Los Angeles, California.

But, you know, I've just been working on my podcast. I have, you know, road tripping me. And Channing Frye started it many, many years ago. And that's part of the reason why I, you know, I knew and was so familiar with your guys' podcast. Because I used to always see you guys at the top of the sports ranking. So I would be watching PMT or Bill Simmons, and when we would drop a podcast, you'd be watching it go up and see what we could do, and I used to always see your guys' name at the top.

So when you guys were calling, I was like, yeah, 100%. I would love to see what you guys are about. So how big of a hockey fan are you? Not at all. Not from the basis that I don't, not that I don't respect the game, a hundred percent respect the craft and what you guys do. It's just, I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona. So by the time I was in high school, they finally got the Coyotes and they had, you know, Keith Kachuk and Jeremy Roening. Like they had guys that were big names. And so you got some interest, but as far as, you know, I was so far removed from ice and snow and in Phoenix

that hockey was just never something that really, you know, popped up for me in my kind of circle of space. You said you had the podcast with Channing Fry for a while. So you were doing it while you were playing? Yeah, we actually started the the very very first in-season podcast of any athlete anywhere so we're the very very first ones and you've seen obviously podcasting has grown up and we weren't we didn't create the podcast that's not it but like me and channing fry after we won the championship after having like three hour long dinners with our

teammates we were like hey we should put some of this up on Wax. We would put it on and start doing a podcast. So we started that, and that's when we just had a tremendous amount of success and started seeing what the fans wanted. Fans want the behind-the-scenes access, and not necessarily an interview, but more of when we were doing long-form conversations. You could just ask people stories, and it would just kind of flow and go. And that was content that had never really been seen in the NBA before. And so that definitely helped with the early success of our podcast. Well, that's funny because Witt asked me when I was still playing, although I was in the American

League and not really in the limelight like you, I was a little bit nervous as to something I might have said on there. Did you say anything that got you in trouble with the team on your podcast while you were still playing? No, no. At first first because no one really understand like again we're talking about four years ago podcasting has been around for you know a decade plus if not longer depending on how you view it but no for us it was so uncharted territory and what we tried to do a really good job of is editing out anything that was controversial we wanted this you wanted to come here to find out more about your favorite player or this athlete and to see how teams interact.

We recorded on the team plane. We lost the game against Boston. Then we were all drinking wine and we recorded an episode on the team plane, flying to the next location and then released it in the morning. And people were mind blown because you had four or five of the 15 guys came on and we were telling stories and we had a great game and this and that. And all of a sudden that was out the next day because it was like a nationally televised game. It was a big game against Boston.

And all of a sudden people were like, this is bananas that you can hear these guys talking for an hour on the plane. And that was kind of groundbreaking. No one had ever done or seen anything like that. So it was fun, man. It was fun, but we tried to always avoid getting people in trouble. If there were things that needed to be edited out, we would always let our guests listen to it because we wanted it to be for the conversation, not the clickbait.

Well, going back to that incident you just talked about, does that on-court beef in a joking way kind of make the podcast where you're taking shots about, like, oh, I rejected that guy three times or whatever you did in the game? Yeah, you know what? When we were playing, it was a little bit more topical. But now it's just kind of evergreen. We want to know what people are doing, what their interests are.

Tell us a funny story about your teammate. Channing Frye and I have both played for, you know, over 30 years combined. So we were teammates with half the NBA over the course of our careers. So most of the guys that we got on, we either knew stories about, had experiences with. So a lot of it was just really, really fun, relaxed storytelling. But the cool thing about when we did it during the season is that there was

some topical stuff. We would talk about the games and how we played and stuff like that. But we're not really into breaking down stats and analytics. This is more of like how if you were to put six hockey players together at dinner and just record it. That's more of what it was about. You know you're recording, but we're not breaking down games. We're talking about who has the fastest this or who do you think this is, and we're comparing and breaking down stories.

So that's more of what we were about. Richard, I know the game changed immensely from your early couple seasons until you retired. Would you consider that change or evolution what's going on with the game from when you entered to when you exited? Well, I think evolution. I think it's evolution, and it's like you rememberited? Well, I think evolution. I think it's evolution.

And it's like you remember, you know, I don't want to date myself, but when I was growing up, there wasn't YouTube. Every basketball move I got was either from watching an NBA game, an NBA video, or going to the park and seeing an older guy do it. And then I would try and emulate it. Now these kids have, you know, YouTube where they can watch breakdown videos. Like my kids are doing master class videos with Steph Curry and they're three and five. Like all of this stuff now people have the ability to start and learn and train at a much higher level.

So wherever the game goes in 10 to 15 years, right, then to me that's just the evolution of the game. Now things don't always evolve the way you want them to or in a manner that is as pretty and beautiful but ultimately the game is going to always evolve well you were a i mean a young stud playing and you grew up in arizona you win a state high school championship i'm looking up all your uh all your stats what you've done well listen no listen you listen. Pump the tires. No, you're going to get a kick. Yeah, tell me six. You're going to get a kick out of this.

So you were at Arizona. That's when I was in my ultimate of watching college basketball as a college basketball fan. And your team, I remember I loved that team. You guys lost to Duke. Now, I may be off on some of this stuff, so just correct me if I'm wrong. But that team had you gilbert arenas and luke walton and and that game against duke was like a unforgettable just amazing experience here you guys lost just tell me about that that rise in college basketball become one of the top

teams in the country that is just sick well you know it was fun because like when i first got to arizona so basically the year they won the national championship was in 97. They had Miles Simon, Mike Bibby, Jason Terry, and all of these great players. I came on the year after. I went there with the goal of, yo, these guys are gods. They're legends. I want to win a national championship. I think everybody that went there in the preceding next two, three years were of the idea, I'm

coming here because I want to win a national championship. So we were fortunate where we had some really good teams, some great players, even some of our great, the best players on our team, I would probably say were Jason Gardner, Lauren Woods, and Michael Wright. Those guys were all college All-Americans, but ultimately didn't have like the lengthy pro careers that me and Luke Walton and Gilbert Arenas did. But if you were to break down the three best players on our college team,

we're those three guys, and then it was the next three. But we had five preseason All-Americans, and we just ran into a great Duke team. You talk about me and Gilbert and Luke Walton. Well, they had Shane Battier, Carlos Boozer, Jason Williams, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon. They had a loaded team. And truth be told, it was a toss-up. Like, you know, you tip your hat to them.

I hate everything that's fucking associated with Duke. But, you know, I still respect most of those guys. My lasting memory of that game is Mike Dunleavy just going off on the second half. Thanks. I know. You want to fucking talk about everything? Hey, hey,

listen, listen to me. I was young. I was rooting for you guys. You guys let me down, but still, I mean, I still wanted to pump your tires and let you know how legit.

I, I, I, I appreciate that. I appreciate it. It's all love. I, I,

I have the, the, the pleasure of working with like Jason Williams. And anytime I get an opportunity to shoot a shot at Duke, I do. Bill Walton. You've got to have at least a story there. I mean, you had to have smoked at least one joint with him at the University of Arizona.

No, no, no. He was always just like, you boys need to drink milk. So he went even where we would go. I used to get kicked out of his house. I used to get kicked out of his house. I used to get kicked out of his house. There's, I have too many, cause Luke Wall is my best friend and, and Bill was like, like, he's like a dad to me because, you know, even though he's different, like he was shaping me as a young individual, giving me like MBA type advice when I was in high school and college. And so like, for me, like he filled a role that my parents never

understood. They didn't understand what it was going to be like to have that type of attention at 21 or 22 or millions of dollars at 23, 24. So he was so instrumental in shaping me as a professional and as an individual, but he was fucking crazy. I'll give you guys a couple of stories. So one time I have tons of stories stories i have thousands and thousands of hours this could be the bill walton story but for one time right i give you a couple so you know one time i'm like uh me and luke just meeting each other and this is back in the day where your answer machines and all of a sudden i click on it and for me i'd known luke a little bit but it never met bill so all of a sudden we get a voicemail and bill walton is on my phone this is the same man that was doing the nba finals Michael Jordan and all these other guys. So I'm like, I'm in awe. Bill Walton's like, Luke,

this is your father, Bill calling. We got an off, we got a message from the office and they need you to send a letter home. The address is, you know, eight, six, seven, five, you know, you know, Smith lane. I repeat it's eight, six, seven, five Smith lane, San Diego. And he left it twice. And I was like, Luke, did you guys just move or something? Like, why did your dad leave the address twice? He looked at me and put his head down. He's like, Richard, my dad, my parents are really big hippies. I was born in the downstairs bedroom of that house.

And he still leaves the address every single time twice twice, on my message machine whenever he needs it. Richard, I need you to send it to this address, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, really? Is he that weird? He was like, Richard, you have no idea. Even when he used to crash at his house and we would be in the hot tub. I remember me, Luke, we get in the hot tub and there's these two older guys. And they start telling stories. She's like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

So he's got her chopping it up, telling stories. And they're like, all right're good to see you i'm gonna get out so i'm like oh man you've known those guys for a while luke he's like i've never seen those two guys before in my entire life richard and like these are the things that would happen these are the things that would happen like at his house and like the the just the weirdo stuff and he is just a strange just a strange long strange trip that's bill walton yeah i mean he's an absolute legend i know you were probably just a kid when he won his last title with the celtics there but he never has to buy a drink in new england again that's for sure but yeah i want to go back to university arizona briefly when you were there was it well known on campus that one of the all-time greatest comedies ever was filmed on campus oh nerds 100 and you don't like the revenge of the nerds but

you don't have to you don't have to tell us about that it was filmed literally right across their down gym where they would do it that was the gym that we used to uh we used to have to actually practice in that gym so yeah it was well known it was well known for us like it was kind of past the point of being cool but like tucson was such like a shithole town that it was well known it was well known for us like it was kind of past the point of being cool but like tucson was such like a shithole town that it was like one of like the one of like the cool things that like made that school because you know you would compare it to arizona state or ucla or usc or washington up in seattle but one thing that made tucson kind of cool and another fun fact can't buy any love that old movie with Patrick Dempsey.

That was also filmed in Tucson at the high school right across the street. We have a little bit of fame, not much, and it's kind of fallen off since then. So after Arizona, you're a first-round pick. I mean, first-round NBA draft pick. If we look back at your suit

that night, are we going to be laughing? You know what? wasn't no no no no so i was again shitty story the commissioner didn't think i was gonna be that good so they didn't invite me to the green room and then i was the first player drafted not in the green room no yeah yeah so oh were you rattled when you found out you weren't invited that like was that kind shocking? No, because if anything, it teaches you early. Because I think they had a couple years, they had a couple, like the Aaron Rodgers situation where guys are sitting there and you're just watching their dreams get crushed. And so what happened for me is because I was like a middle-round pick,

there was a couple of teams that bad-mouthed me to see if I can drop. So I worked out for Charlotte. And they were like, hey, how'd you shoot the ball? Because that was like a big for Charlotte and they were like, Hey, how'd you shoot the ball? Cause that was like a big question mark. I was like, Oh, actually how'd you shoot the ball when you're in Chicago? I was like, I actually shot the ball really well. I actually shot it better than I did here. They're like, they told us that you couldn't hit the broad side of the barn, right? Because they wanted me to drop a little bit lower. So once that information starts getting up to the commissioner and they have to make a decision of like the top 12 guys or top 15 guys but again i was the first player drafted that wasn't in the green room so it just

gave me a quick introduction that people will say things about you to benefit themselves right like they'll talk bad about you and make you earn less money to see if you can drop from 14 to 17 that's a great lesson to teach a 21 year old kid that's about to enter a professional sport. That's godless of them. You get drafted by Houston. Did you know or suspect that they were going to dare you the same day? No, no idea. I was actually stoked to go to Houston.

My high school team was the Rockets. They were the Houston Rockets. They were in the Western Conference. They had Steve Francis. They had a bunch of guys. It was actually going to be like I was excited. And then, funny story, I was dating a girl at the time and uh we had conversation i'm like hey look the closer we are the better chance we can have because she was going to still be in school for one more year and we make it work so i get i get

drafted by houston it's two states away she's texting me congratulations and blah blah blah blah blah it's like oh man i'm so excited thank you thank you i'll call you later uh because my agent calls me it's like hey i think there's a trade so then they get they announce the trade i get a text from her like 30 minutes like well i guess it was nice knowing you so i get a trade and so i get sent out to jersey and at this point i'm i'm furious right because i'm thinking that i went from houston to a team i know nothing about in new jersey and new Jersey doesn't have the best reputation especially for a kid from Glendale Arizona so then like the next day is when they announced the Jason Kidd trade and being a huge fan of Jason Kidd he was in the Phoenix Suns he was with the Phoenix Suns when I was with Phoenix

that just made me just know that oh this is going to be great and and the rest is history you guys were buzzing right off the hop there. What was it like all of a sudden you're in the Big Apple, and you're young, and you have all this fame, because I know you had a good start to your career early on. Was it a little overwhelming at first? No, no, actually, man, and this is, again, obviously our country's going through a lot as it is right now,

but I got drafted in 2001. So like 9-11 happened shortly right before our season started. So, you know, I could literally see the towers falling down. So I was in New York when all of this happened. So, you know, the whole young fun thing, you guys remember that the Diamondbacks ended up beating the Yankees in the World Series. And then, you know, we went to the final. So the city was in a very, very fragile state. And it took many years for the city to recover, as you know, everyone knew. But, you know, I could draft it in June. I show up for training camp, you know, in September. Then September 11 happens. And then our season starts a month later. There was nobody partying. There was no one going out and drinking. There was no one hanging out, having fun.

It was like, you know, which was probably good for me. But also, you know, it was just not that type of environment. So the country wasn't really partying then, let alone like in New York when, you know, stuff was still burning for months. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer for you. That's a real shitty story. Well, you know, it's part of the history. It's part of the story. You can't sugarcoat it.

I actually, quick aside, I actually started a job on September 10th of 2001. So 9-11 was the second day of work for me once. So anyway, exactly. Welcome to work. I got a question in the midst of all this. What was your rookie signing contract for? Because the NBA, that's the money that's where the money's at yeah so i was fortunate because i was a lottery pick so i was a lottery

pick i want to say that like as the 13th pick in the draft i think it was a total of maybe five million six million total contracts it was like 1.5 in the first year 1.6 in the second one point something and then you get a bump in your fourth year if they accept like if they beat your like your book because it's three years guaranteed and then one year team option so that you get a bump on the team option so i probably made like five million in my first you know go around uh which for me was obviously life-changing money for me and my family. 2004, I believe, was the big year for you. Not only did you get the massive extension,

but you also made the USA Olympic team. That was a great, great. You know what's crazy is that how can you be a winner and still be a loser? Like that's a great, great example, that Olympic team. Yeah but no no it was man it was and part of the reason why i signed my contract is because i was playing for the olympic team so i wasn't in a very good spot to negotiate a contract not that i didn't i was blessed and fortunate but yeah like my contract was up in july and then i'm playing in the olympics like into july aug yeah, I was a fortunate man where I signed my contract, my big contract, a six-year deal back when you could still do those. And, yeah, the Olympics was a unique experience.

I still stand by the greatest experience besides winning a championship, which I was fortunate to do, was opening ceremony at the Olympics. Now, I know the Olympics didn't go the way we wanted them to, but, look, at the end of the day, look, I have an Olympic medal. I was a part of an opening ceremony, and I was an Olympic athlete. Like, that's something that I don't care if you just underachieved or didn't do as well. It's something that I'm extremely proud of, and I enjoy making fun of. So you guys can shoot whatever shots you guys want.

Hey, you know what I'm going to say? Sorry. Ditto. There we go. There we go. Silver medal, 2010. Hey, barely played. Don't care.

Silver medal. It's hanging up. You're an Olympic athlete. You're an Olympic athlete. That's it. For as long as you like, you are an Olympic athlete. Like, that's it. That's all that matters.

Now, you know, I like to consider us, you know, the bronze medal. you know, when we had to win the bronze, like you technically lost the gold. So, you know, if you were to put us in a gold medal. Hey, take a hike. I was standing higher than you guys were besides your height. So, too, those two are facts. You were mentioning the shots there, and I looked into it a little bit. I know at the time it was a very, very young Olympic team, the youngest ever, right? There was eight guys under the age of 23, correct? Yeah, 25, under the age of 25, yeah.

25, excuse me. And you were playing ahead of Carmelo Anthony at the time, and there was maybe some drama that ended up getting brought up as a result of that. Yeah, it wasn't drama. I think Maverick Carter brought up a fact that him and LeBron, who were two young superstar studs that were about their future All-Stars, future Hall of Famers, but these guys where LeBron was the greatest high school player, one of the greatest high school players ever, maybe the greatest perimeter high school player ever i don't want

to discount like bill walton and karina duljabar and guys like that but uh and then you got carmelo who just won a national championship took denver to the playoffs so when they looked at this like hey we're on the olympic team they're like why aren't we starting now it would all do respect like we're all countrymen we're all in this together um and i just think that was just a younger mindset for them but i don't think when there was their hostility there was a little bit you could feel it but i think the hostility wasn't directed at me like or sean marion at the time but they maverick carter kind of said oh you guys made a vow to go and destroy them and then i was like well wait a second the next year they didn't destroy me. I think I had like 25 and 11 and held Carmelo to like nine points. And so it was like, wait a second.

And the funny part about it is that, look, I have so much respect for Maverick and Carmelo. I'm not saying that I am a better player than Carmelo by any means. But in 2004, when he was 21 and I was 24, it was a lot more even of a matchup than people want to say. But if you're worried about who's starting, and you know this from playing on the Olympic team, it's the team effort. This is not like who's starting, who's coming off the bench. It's like at the end of the day, everyone there is one of the best in the world.

We just need to all sacrifice and focus on a singular goal. If you're worried about who's starting, who's not starting, it's not like i was playing 40 minutes it was like i would play four minutes then the next guys would come in and play four minutes and so you know there's always going to be drama and when the documentary is made on it i'm probably sure i'm going to have my villain role at some point time but fuck it you're going to be horace grant like in that in the last dance oh my yeah the difference between me and like horace grant me is I'll go am on on on every network every podcast I'll go am I'll tell the truth truth I'll tell what the bodies are buried so be careful we can we're going to go into the last dance but one thing that I took away from

that was how intense the that original dream teams practices were I mean, those were the best guys in the NBA. Was the intensity in those scrimmages the best you've ever seen? Of ours? Of yours, yeah. Well, of yours. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would say that it was a different time. Yeah, it was a different time. And, again, we had a difficult time because Larry Brown was a very unique,

older, older coach and to have such a young team. Larry Brown took on the responsibility of trying to teach these young players how to play basketball. And that just wasn't it. We didn't have any experience. We didn't have any, like, we didn't have, like, I was meeting seven or eight guys for the first time before we went to the Olympics. So it was like, it was just unrealistic that you put a young team together with no experience,

no practice. And it was American arrogance that we thought that we could just go out there with no practice, no nothing like, Oh, well look, they had LeBron James and Carmelo. They were 21 years old. They're not the 34 year old, you know, MVP candidates that they are now. They were still learning how to play the best game of basketball. All of us still were. So we was, and then after that,

they realized that they had to have like a USA team and then a select team where they were invited the top younger players to like learn and train together and train for a week. So it helped change the format. So if we had to be the sacrificial lamb to help the U S win the next 10 gold medals, then I felt like we contributed in our own way. Our failure contributed in a positive way. Just like Witt's ankles.

Anyway, you were going to ask something, Mario? Yeah, I was going to say, you mentioned the arrogance. Was it also too many guys playing hero ball and maybe taking the opposition a little too lightly as well? No, no, because if you go back and look, in the Sydney Olympics, the U.S. barely won. The u.s barely won the the gold medal they only won they won by single digits um and it was a very very close i would want to say it was tied with like two or three minutes to go in the game so they barely won the gold medal so coming into it they knew that they couldn't bs so what happened

was is that we had 15 guys that went to Puerto Rico to qualify for the Olympics. It was Carl Malone, Ray Allen, Tracy McGrady, Mike Bibby. I said, Vince Carter, Jason kid. We just had a little Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan and Jermaine O'Neill. So we had this loaded veteran squad. Well, after the, after we qualify for the Olympics, and just to give you, we played Argentina, and we beat them by 40. And we were up by 40 in that game against Argentina. Now, fast forward, a bunch of guys start dropping out.

T-Mac drops out. Vince Carter drops out. Ray Allen drops out. Carl Malone drops out. Mike Bibby drops out. Jason Kidd drops out. All of these guys drop out in between the qualifier, Ray Allen drops out. Carl Malone drops out. Mike Bibby drops out. Jason Kidd drops out. All of these guys drop out in between the qualifier after qualifying before the Olympics.

All of these guys drop out. And now the NBA is scrambling. So I was on that team that qualified for the Olympic, but I was like the young guy. And so they, and so basically what happened is they just, well, they just chose whether they didn't like Larry Brown. This was going to be the first Olympics post 9-11. So it was really, really intense. It was really, really intense, like the security and what was going to be going on and the rules and guys are maybe a little bit afraid of like, you know, being a target because this is a billion dollar team. It's the most notable team. So guys kind of felt like they could be targets. You just didn't

know, especially in Greecece and so all of these guys back out and so now the nba is scrambling so they go from having this veteran team to now asking like player after player after player after player and finally they get to like the younger players so they get to the d-way scalabrini got asked yeah scalabrini got asked like he just he said no when the white mamba. The white mamba. Yeah, when the white mamba says no, you know it's a problem. So then all of these guys, and so they start, like, okay, well, maybe they were like, these guys can get it done and we can build for the future,

which Carmelo and LeBron ultimately have gone on to win two or three gold medals. So, like, all of us then were now thrust into a space. We get together and we play together for the very, very first time. So I'm meeting D-Wade. Fast forward to the Olympics in the semifinals, we played that same Argentina team that had five NBA players. They had Nocioni. They had Umberto. They had Manu Ginobili.

They had Scola. So they had a bunch of NBA players, but these guys had played together for the last decade. And they just were a better team than us on that day. So it was like, was that arrogance on us not taking it true? It's like, no, these guys were great players that had a ton of experience. We were a very young team that had no experience, and the recipe ultimately led to a bronze medal. You mentioned Ray Allen, Jesus Shuttlesworth, one of my favorite movies of all time he got game how similar was your college visit to his and and most nba guys

my my my everybody different mine was very very similar not in like drug sex or money but in just far as like walking and seeing that these guys were treated like gods and just how they were just the biggest show in town, especially in Tucson. So they always tell you not to commit on your visit. I had my very first visit of the five. I met Luke Walton on that trip and one other kid, Ricky Anderson. We both, all three of us looked around and was like, I've seen enough.

Yep. I'm good. I've seen enough. I don't need to go anyplace else. There's no way it could be better. And so I only ended up taking one official visit and and that was to Arizona, and that was it. Okay, well, quickly, since we're there right now, we've got to go to Gilbert Arenas. This guy's out of his mind. In a sense, where I follow him on social media, he doesn't give a shit. Nothing at all.

No chill, Gil. Was he like that in college? Yes. He's such a sweet kid, dude. He's such a good dude, but he is one of those people that you don't want to play the game of dare with him. He's one of those individuals that you want to be like, I bet you won't do that.

He's just one of those guys that he just feels that is like his ultimate time to shine. The minute you think he won't say or do something, that's the thing that gives Gilbert Arenas a rush. Now, is he one of the hardest working, most talented players I've ever seen in my life? 1,000%. But is he funny? Is he hilarious? Does he have no chill to him? That

is Gilbert 100%. And it's been him. I've known Gilbert since we were probably both 16, 17 years old. And he's never going to change. He's matured, but he's not going to change. Richard, do you ever get sick of the endless LeBron versus MJ debates? Like, they just seem to be nonstop. Do you get sick of hearing them?

No, you know, you get sick about it because, one, for me personally, because I'm always associated with LeBron, like my view is never respected. So I give my unbiased opinion, but I typically try and back out on those and i maybe i might highlight differences or something but i don't do it just because if anything it's negative towards braun if i say he's a goat if i say he's a goat oh it's just because you love braun if i say mj's a goat then everybody's like see look even braun's teammates say mj's a goat so it's like i have i'm not in a win-win situation if we're talking about a topic or a specific or a difference between them yes but who's the goat who's the greatest i think they're

both the greatest of their generation michael jordan's the greatest of his generation will will chamberlain bill russell uh magic johnson uh kobe bryant these guys are the dominant guys now if you're trying to go and find out the elite of the elite, that's going to be a little bit more difficult, but I don't think that LeBron James, he's going to have records that probably will never be broken. Like his playoff record right now for most points, he's got a thousand more points than anybody in playoff history, even including MJ. He passed MJ. That means that the next player that's going to break LeBron's record is going to have to go to 12 finals and average 30 points a game every single year in order to break that record. That's just unbreakable.

That's just ungodly. And you got to spend quite a bit of time with him, and he takes a lot of flack. He's got to be a good guy behind the scenes, right, because he takes a lot of abuse. Yeah, he is. He understands that. He takes the credit, and he takes the lot of abuse yeah he is he understands that he takes the he takes the credit and he takes the blame and that's a real that's a real real man right there right and he's a guy that he can he competes in a respectful way and that's like always like his kind of thing but no one trains harder no one works harder no one has a better

basketball iq that i've ever played that i've ever that i've ever complained uh played with uh but for the most part, he is just the ultimate professional and all of the success and all of the success that, you know, he's gotten, he's deserved. Richard, I'm not going to do the obvious Boston guy thing and ask about Larry Bird. Instead, I want to ask about Magic Johnson. And I think, why doesn't he get mentioned more in this conversation? I feel like.

You know, cause Magic Johnson, Magic Johnson is, because Magic Johnson is a real big PR guy. Love Magic to death. Like, you know, there's some things that you agree with, things that you don't. Ultimately, as far as I'm concerned, like my thing, I think Magic Johnson is the greatest Laker of all time. Like, to me, and I know Kobe Bryant is right, right there. Right, right there. But when you, you know, I think, you know, Magic Johnson,

and again, maybe I'm just an old head, but Magic Johnson won five championships, won multiple MPP. Like, he dominated and did so many things. And he changed the game. He was a 6'9 point guard. You've never seen that before. But I think he understands to further the game and make sure there's no rip.

He, you know, says, like, look, Kobe Bryant is the greatest Laker of all time, which again, is no different than the magic or than the Michael versus LeBron. Like you can pick whoever you want and you're not wrong. I just look at what Magic Johnson's resume is and like the amount of winning that he did from the very, very, very beginning, even as a very young player. I just think to me, if you were to ask me, I would rank, I would rank Maddie Johnson, then Kobe Bryant, then Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and then Shaq. And that's from the basketball knowledge. I don't know.

I didn't know Jerry West, Will Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor. I didn't know those guys, but from what my own eyes saw, like that would be my order of Lakers. That's funny. Cause I literally had my notes. I don't think it's crazy to prefer Magic to Kobe. You hearing that, I was like, oh, that's music to my ears because Magic, I grew up watching him. He was incredible. You mentioned

having a view a few minutes ago. I wanted to ask, what was your viewpoint for the block? This will be the last question because we know you got to go take care of your kids. Yeah, yeah. No. My view for the block is I was fortunate. I was on the bench. I had just subbed out. And then, obviously, when he did that and when he chased it down,

it was like a blur because I was sitting down. And so it's like, again, it's no different than, again, I'm going to use a hockey reference, no different than a power play. Like, sometimes you can see it happening and you're just like, oh, they're going to score or something. That's about to happen. So you saw it. And then when he did that block, and the thing that I try and point out to people is that this is game seven. This is two minutes to go. So this is, this man has played every minute of the game in the last possible game of an NBA season. And he sprints like no one has ever seen and jumped head to the

rim. That's the elite app. like people can do that at game 20 people can do that at game 40 maybe the first round of the playoffs but to have a guy be able to do it in his seventh or seventh straight final on the last possible game of the season in game seven and to see a guy still run and jump that fast and that high that it's just it's a level of absurdity as as an athlete i don't think i've ever seen you know a play like that yeah i think you broke it down perfectly all right well guys man i appreciate i really do man i appreciate that and uh having you guys you know uh support uh our podcast uh the road tripping podcast um and if you guys ever want want me to get on and chop up some

more uh you guys can maybe give me get on and chop up some more, you guys can maybe give me some hockey quiz or something like that. We can tie it back in. Yeah, man. Hey, once the season starts, maybe we can take in a game together somewhere when we're all in the same town together. That would be awesome, man.

That would be awesome. All right, RJ. Have a great weekend, my man. All right. Thanks, guys. I want to send a huge thanks to Richard Jefferson for joining us. Had a great time chatting with him, man. That's a long time to play in the NBA, so we enjoyed shooting the breeze with him.

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That's when you're playing in a match and you're with your buddies and it's like, pick it up. But if you're out there posting a score, there's no such thing. So it's like, it just shows. I mean, it's crazy, dude. You're going to miss short ones. I mean, the guy, I think there was two missed short ones. One by Morikawa and then one by Shoffley in the playoff hole.

So it's just brutal to see. But you hit it the tiniest bit off pace, off line, lip out. What do you consider a gimme? Like let's say in the professional world of golf. The term used for your everyday golfers is called if it's inside the leather, it's good, which means I don't think many people have leather grips anymore on their putters, but back in the day they did. And if you laid down the putter with the putter head in the cup

and then laid it down and the ball was inside before the leather started on the grip, they'd be like, pick it up. Inside the leather, it's good. So what is that? Maybe a foot? 18 inches? Maybe. Maybe more like 16.

I'd be curious to actually measure it. So that's considered most of the time. But, I mean, if I'm in a big money match, which, by the way, I talked to Grinelli. I think I want to start videoing these money matches I plan and then getting them edited. It's coming. It's coming. It's common.

So we'll figure that out. But, um, I bring those up because you're going to never give short putts at the end, you know, to win a match, to win a bunch of cash, put it,

you're putting everything. That's what, that's why I heard the belly putter started. The big long ones is because guys wanted longer gimme's. That's a little golf humor for all you golfers out there oh and by the way going back to the the richard jefferson interview i would have great man i would have asked him more about lebron james i mean one of the greatest athletes of our time if not the greatest athlete of our time uh but we didn't i didn't realize he had to go uh pick up his

daughters i don't know where that they were that i got friends at the time but uh the interview was a little bit shorter than what i thought so uh next time we get him on we'll talk to uh more about lebron james and uh maybe some of his teammates that he played with i think he said all right guys i can do one more question i gotta run get my girls and then bing's and r.a both asked the four more questions i'm sitting like this guy's probably like what the fuck is going on these dudes won't stop asking me about making three pointers yeah that was still

it was good stuff but alright let's get to your crazy stuff okay so that's the show take a deep breath and let's hear it do we have nothing else to talk about no I was not very good by the way I don't want to hear anything from you fucking fans i was terrible i thought you were great buddy i thought you were great yeah i was minus two with a couple turnovers got sat in the third that was me today that was

me on hockey night in canada every time in edmonton which is every saturday so wet first of all congratulations by the way okay thank you very much biz thank you very much i appreciate that and people at home you may wondering, what are you saying congratulations about? I've had a hell of a week, and it's only Wednesday, guys. So as I said, last episode, I believe, or maybe it was Chicklets Cup, I've been playing the best golf of my life. I had seven rounds in a row a week or two ago where I was between two under and two over.

Just consistent, nice golf being played. And it's good timing as it leads into the qualifying for the mass. And which, if you remember last year, I almost blew it at the end, but I got in. All right. So I had that on Monday and on Wednesday today, I, uh, well, you're listening to Thursday. I qualified. I went to qualify for the new England amateur amateur. I don't even know how to say that. It's at Concord Country Club this year in Massachusetts, one of the sickest golf courses in the state of Massachusetts. So I wanted to get in.

The best in New England. So I'll go Monday, right? Now, actually, I'll backtrack. Saturday, Sunday, I played both days, and something went awry. And golf is the most cruel, hardest game ever devised, and you're cruising along, like I said, for a week, two weeks, and boom, you lose your swing. And you got to go find it, you got to go put it back together,

and that's how it is. It's never, ever constant and normal. There's no normal in golf. Every day you're changing. Every day you have different feels. Well, Saturday and Sunday, I'm like, you got to be shitting me. I've played golf like this for two, three weeks, continuing to improve, and now I feel like this with these qualifiers coming up.

God damn it. Come on. So I'm a little nervous, but then I figured, dude, you're just going to go play loose, swing easy. And part of my success, guys, and hop in whenever you have questions if you do, part of my success has been swinging at 75%. I'm just swinging easy. I'm taking a little more club, and I'm just swinging easy and balanced,

and I'm holding the finish, and it's working. I'm not swinging out of my shoes. So Monday, I get a tee time. I told you guys it was at 7 a.m. or 7.14. I don't know. So I got up at 4.30. I went for my mile walk. I swam 15 laps in the pool. I got the body going. I had a death wish coffee, shout out for the free ad. And I was buzzing. And I get down to the range at like 6.40. I don't

like getting there too early. I feel horrible on the range. I'm popping up five woods. I'm like, you got to be kidding me right now. This is not what I planned on, but you know what? Two, three years ago, I would have shot 90, but I just said, you're going to grind, you're going to manage your swing, and you're going to manage the golf course, so I'll go to the first hole. It's a beautiful short par four.

I hit it up on the green two-putt par. No worries. We're even. I go to two. One of the harder holes at Marshfield, the big downhill drop and then a big uphill, probably like like four 15. I think I pound driver to the bottom, nice wedge up top to putt, get out of there buried like a five footer for par. I'm like, all right, all right, here we go through the, through the, through a tough hole right there.

I get to three really short hole. You can hit a four iron. I just, just hit something two 15 and you'll have one 30 in, but there's trouble. There's out of bounds left and there's trees, right? So I take my three iron. I try to swing easy. I push it in the trees, but you know what, Just hit something 215 and you'll have 130 in. But there's trouble. There's out of bounds left and there's trees right. So I take my three iron. I try to swing easy. I push it in the trees. But you know what? You know when I fucking knew this day was going to be good?

I had a window about six feet wide where I could have punched it down to the green. But it was very risky. And there were 100 trees. And all of a sudden, I'm starting to realize don't make doubles. You cannot make double bogeys in these qualifiers. Do not do it. Trust your wedge game. And what did I do?

I did. I pitched it out sideways. I had a 130 in. I hit it to 10 feet. I missed it, but I made a bogey, right? And I didn't make a double. I didn't hit a tree and have it kick behind another tree. I was smart.

Next hole's a par five. I blow my drive right. I actually have to hit it up another fairway because I'm kind of blocked out by trees again. So mind you, I'm not swinging it fabulous still. I rip a five iron down the other fairway of the fifth hole. I'm on four. And I have like 130 in uphill over trees. I hit a great shot to like 10 feet with my pitching wedge.

I missed the putt, but you know what? I'll take par after that drive. One over. The next hole, I blow my drive right again, literally in the trees with a little bit bigger of a window, a window of a shot I knew I could pull off to hit it up towards the green. And I just cut a little five iron. I'm like 200 yards. It was a horrible drive. And it cuts up to just in front of the green, probably about 15 yards short. I hit it on the green to like a foot tap it in that feels good

that's a hell of a par save ryan well i get to the sixth hole which is a beautiful par three buck 90 into the wind it was playing you're hitting from a top of a t and then it all goes down until the green back up about one the pin was 190 i take a five iron and pure the absolute shit out of this iron it's an absolute dart right left of the pin the pins on the right side i'm like i'll be good and then as it's halfway there i'm like dude that is ripping through the wind it lands on the back of the green and bounces long i'm like ah but you know what i did new wit growing up with on a golf course i said it's all right you hit a great shot you're not in a bad spot.

Get it up and down. Although I'm now chipping downhill. It wasn't a good spot to be in. I hit a great, I hit a great chip shot and I hit it to about six feet. I was really thrilled with it and I missed the putt and I'm now pissed off. I'm like, that's annoying. You should have made that putt, but you got some birdie holes coming up. Seven. Easy little short hole, four iron wedge to five feet. Can it birdie one over. Here we go. I get to eight. Blow drivers over these trees because I know it's all open because I've

played Marshfield Country Club before. I got about 150 and I hit it to the front of the green 30 feet. It wasn't bad because it was in the rough. Can it? No way. 30 footer. Yeah. Back to even.

Might have been a 35 footer huge dropped in final rotation unbelievable putt go to nine par three it's a buck 55 playing into a little bit of a breeze i said dude take a nice eight and just kind of cut this thing off with a little sawed off finish i hit this like five yard cut to a back right flag. I get up there. I'm like, oh my God, it's six feet. The mass golf guy sitting there with this camera. And I go video this birdie and tweet it out there.

What do I do? I roll it in three in a row. The turkey. One under. So I get to one out of three nine. I'm like, all right, here we go. Here we go. And I'm confident. And I'm like managing this, this, my swing.

And it's starting to feel a little bit better. 10's a long par four. I actually hit a great drive. Had 135 in. Usually you don't hit driver there, but there was room right. I'm in the rough. I flag a pitching wedge right at the pin, but it lands long. And if you've played Marshfield, the 10th hole, it's crazy.

It's all sloped back to front. The half of it's sloped back to front. Then you get up on this shelf. And up on that shelf, there's a hill behind that. So the pin's in the back. And I'm literally 12 to 13 feet behind the pin. I'm putting downhill. And I'm like, okay, this is very fast. And then after the hole, it's really, really fast.

Gone. I tapped this thing, thinking it will maybe be a little short but a good putt it goes by the hole he keeps rolling to like 40 feet i'm like you gotta be kidding me oh my god it's too good of a shot to now have triple the amount of the the footage in your second putt for par that you did for birdie i hit a horrible putt to like four feet now i have this for bogey can it big bogey whatever i got a par five coming up par five i hit a good drive laid up hit it hit it close actually had a nice little up and down right near the pin i get to it's 11 i'm now still even i get to 12 i think the hardest hole in the course 435 yard dog leg left hazard, trees where you may not find the ball left.

I hit the best drive of my life, this high booming draw to 112 yards out. The other guys were like 150. I think one of them hit three-wood, but I was like, holy shit. They both missed the green left. The screen's narrow, pins up front in the middle. I hit a 54-degree wedge to literally 16 inches like i get up there it's so tight i'm like dude toughest hole in the course you get back to one under you beast now these guys are trying to get up and down one guy did one guy didn't i'm waiting i'm like i just

want to putt this i started thinking ah fuck i started thinking that you know where i'm going with this and i and i get up there, like what felt like 20 minutes later, and I lip this thing out. Talking about short putts already. This was the definition of a gimme. It was the definition of a gimme. I'm kind of on tilt now, which I shouldn't have been, but you're still even with a couple easy holes.

Not easy, a couple gettable holes coming up. I'm like, how do you miss that? That's a wasted shot, and I'm going into this. I'm thinking I need to shoot two over. I should have mentioned that. Two over is my number. You got to shoot that to get in. Next hole. Easy shot. You hit it 215. You have 120 yards in. I chunk an iron. Hits the top of the bunker. Rolls in the bunker. I got 110 yards from a bunker with a lip right in front of me i get it out but i'm 30 yards short hit it on to like 25 feet two putt bogey okay all right one over par three coming up next hit this perfect six iron it was like 175 little

wind at you six iron goes 20 feet long my birdie putt is seven feet short. Miss that three putt two over. Are you kidding me, Ryan? Come on. And I'm getting, I'm mad. And I'm just like, what is going on? You don't deserve this. You're playing better than this. Next hole. I ripped my drive, right? It's in, it's in the hazard, like one feet in where I'm able to whack it and punch out. I punch out. I got a hundred yards. Now I'm hitting my third shot into a par four. I leave it like 10 yards short. I'm able to whack it and punch out. I punch out. I got 100 yards now. I'm hitting my third shot into a par four. I leave it like 10 yards short. I'm like, oh, my God. I then chip my fourth shot to like eight feet, seven feet.

Now I got to make this for bogey to go to three over. Now I'm above the number in my mind, the cut line, and I could easily make a double. I can the putt. Big time putt for bogey, right? I go to a par four, a par three next number 16. It's 197 yards back left pin. I hit an awesome four iron. I actually missed it a little bit, but in terms of like circumstance, tough green to hit long iron, it was a good shot. 30

feet. I nestled up there to like maybe two feet. Like it was a good pot, but maybe misread it a little bit, but I'll take par and run. But I'm thinking I got to make at least one birdie. No, I'm thinking I got to play at least even par to have a chance and one birdie to finish it two under, I think gets it done. 17, I bomb my driver. It's a short hole, whatever. Bomb my driver, actually 60 yards in, chip it up. Thought it was a great chip. Release is hard. I got 15, maybe 20 feet above the hole. I tapped this thing. I know it's lightning.

It goes flying by five feet. Oh, my God, man. I thought I hit a shot that was going to be tight for birdie. Now I got another five-footer for par. Can it. Big-time putt. Big-time putt. Looking back, I actually putted better than I thought.

So I get to 18. It's downwind. Now, mind you, I have another round to talk about. So if you're sick of this, you might as well just really drive your car right off the road. I think it's fascinating that you remember every hole. So I get to 18, and 18's playing downwind. I gun the trees on the left. They're like 280. I didn't even realize how quick the trees on the right came in. I hit driver. I had no business hitting driver, but I'm thinking par for sure, but birdie. I'm kind of birdie hunting. It's not a hole you want to try to birdie hunt either.

I push my drive when I think it's on the right side of the fairway. Okay, I get up there. It must have kicked right. It's like right in the tree line. But I have a window up to the green. I got to go low between a tree. I hit a six iron that comes out of like the wooded area like a rocket. All I want to do is be short because the green is legit back to front downhill.

You could sled down this green in the winter when there's snow. The ball goes ripping over the green. I'm like, I'm dead. I'm like, there's no chance. There's zero chance at birdie and there's maybe a 6% chance at par. I hit a flop shot from long in the rough that lands on the exact top of the green, like where it began, and the pin's 40 feet beneath it, and rolls down the hill and actually gets to pin high but 12 feet. It was an incredible shot not to pump my own tires. So I'm like, dude, I have a putt, and I hit a great putt, but I leave it a little short, so it wasn't a great putt, actually.

What am I talking about? Four over. I'm so mad mad i'm just like oh dude i just blew that fucking round i blew that round what a loser one under kind of like in the sandbaggers one under five over i know biz i was just so disgusted but then i get in and my buddy the one-armed bandit andrew der four-ball partner. He's like, he finished four over two. He's like, dude, we're going to get in. He's like, this place, it's windy. The greens

are ripping. The scores are not great. We're going to get in. And I sweated it out all day, checking the scores, checking the scores, checking the scores. And about four and a half hours later, I got into the tournament and four over made it. So back to the Mass Am at Catanzas.

That's in mid-July. I am fired up for that. That's going to be incredible. Last year at the Country Cup, did not go well. I think it was 80-79, not even close to match play. Got to try to get in match play this year. So, any questions? Not me.

I'm flabbergasted that you can remember all this. I feel like your spouse supporting you through your golf habits. Thank you, because she doesn't really want to hear. She must go into robot mode. She's not sitting through more than three holes. She's like, okay, yeah, let me hear about it. Cole's notes. You're on the Logan group again.

That's hard enough. So Tuesday, hit some balls, didn't play. And Wednesday, same exact wake-up routine because it's up in New Hampshire. I was 8'10", and the course was an hour and 20 minutes away. The New England AM, Connecticut, Vermont. We know New England, guys. Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut. It's like J.B. Spiessow setting your fucking tee times.

Exactly. Exactly. So I drive up to New Hampshire. I get paired with a kid that plays at college. Great kid. Hell of a player. And then another high school kid. And these kids are both, you know, really good players.

We get out there. Par five. First hole, like 490. Driver, six iron to 30 feet. Two putt birdie. Great start. Love it. Next hole, like longer par four.

Actually, not long. Whatever. 420. Hit driver. Next hole, like longer par four, actually not long, whatever. 420. I hit driver gap wedge to 12 feet. Easy to putt. Stay one under three. I hit it right into the trees. I punched something up into a green side bunker, hit a phenomenal bunker shot to five feet can at one under next par three, one 80 down the Hill, hit an eight iron, tried to end up being right of it. It drew hit the front front of the green, bounced in the bunker. I'm like, God damn it. Hit another unreal bunker shot to an inch, maybe a half an inch.

It was on the cup. Tap in par. That was a hell of a par. Get me out of that hole. 1 under still through 4. 5, rip a 5-wood down the left side. Hit a nice 54-degree from 100 yards, middle of the green, two putt, four, one under. Six is 125 yards to this thin green over water.

And now let me tell you what this rules official from Vermont says to me. He's sitting there on the 6T watching everyone hit, and there's a guy that's in the drop zone. And the drop, you know, I think the carry of the water was, you know, 110, the pins like kind of like just over that. The guy goes, want to hear something bad? Yeah, sure. As I'm waiting to hit this like terrifying golf shot to a tiny green over water.

That guy right there, he's hitting his ninth shot. He's put four in the water. I'm like, oh, my God. I go, why would you say that to us? We haven't even hit yet. He's like, uh. So I had a great shot, actually, you say that to us? We haven't even hit yet. He's like, uh. So I had a great shot, actually, like 15 feet, two-putt par, get out of there. Next hole, same thing, layup, four irons, like 50-degree, two-putt par,

get out of there through seven, one under. Eight, this kid shows up. I got to get his name. Got to get this kid's name. He loves chiclets, apparently. Where the hell get this kid's name he loves chiclets apparently where the hell is this kid's name it's gonna drive me nuts

Matt Gover he's a goalie and a golfer at Tabor unbelievable golfer he's in high school Tabor Academy he's already exempted to this tournament I'm trying to get him but he shows up because I'm playing with a couple of his buddies well Well, what happens? I chunk a five wood. I'm like one. I'm not 200 yards out on this par four where I should have been one 50. I then blow a six iron dead

right into the trees. Lucky it didn't go into the hazard. I chip onto the green. I missed the pot. I'll take bogey easily. Could have been double even nine. I hit driver up the middle, pounded it, actually hit a nice wedge to the middle of the green to putt, get out of the front nine. Even I have a number in my mind for this qualifier and it's three over. I thought it'd be one stroke higher than the mass. Sam, I don't really know where I got that from. I'm kind of looking back and thinking that made zero sense because his players all over new England, but the back nine has three par fives. And've kind of started thinking and i've kind of started learning you can't just try to get a number in your head on what you think the cut's going to be

and try to get that number or better like i gotta try to go low and i have to do it smartly when i'm not forcing my game and i'm not hitting shots and trying to hit shots that I don't have in my bag. I'm playing within myself, but also trying to be aggressive and score. So tens of par five, I pound a drive, but there's a hazard, right? And it's starting to cut a little bit. I'm like, come on, but it looks fine. But I'll tell every golfer, you know what I'm talking about? It's heading towards kind of the cart path. And in golf, there's this some insane ability that when you hit a drive or a shot and it's going towards the cart path and everyone says, don't hit the cart path. It fucking hits the goddamn cart path. Somehow the cart paths are like three feet wide. It always hits the cart path.

What does my drive do? Hits the cart path. But doesn't bounce in the hazard. It bounces 60 yards forward, dude, on a par five. Instead of having 220 into this hole, I got a buck 70. I mean, what a gift to just get another birdie back. It's now like a par four. Well, I hooked my fucking seven iron.

No. Not the shit, but it was a horrible shot. And hit this awesome pitch shot over this hill, landed in the rough, and rolled to two feet, tapping birdie. What an up and down. I took advantage of a bounce I got in my favor. And I get so many bounces against me at times, I feel. So I get to 11 and it's a short par three, par four.

It's 350 yards. So I hit my three iron and I I got 130 in, or 120 in, and I hit a shot to a foot. Just another nice birdie. I've birdied 10. I've birdied 11, and I got this thing going. I'm two under. We get to the next hole.

It's like a downhill 380, maybe 400 par 4. This is Stonebridge in New Hampshire. I'd never played it before, but I got some notes sent to me from some buddies. Appreciate that, Macario. I pound driver and I actually have 75 yards in. I'm in a perfect spot. I'm right before this long bunker, but it's downhill lie and the green's very narrow.

It's very shallow. It's not deep. There's not much to hit, but I hit this awesome 60 degree nipper to like eight feet, little slider right to left can it three under three in a row. Let's fucking go. So fired up. I'm just like, this is, and I, and I'd found something the night before with my swing after just feeling weird all day at Marshall. It was just great feeling par threes, next 205 yards. I hit my five iron just short right of the green

and I got a pretty easy chip. It's like a lot of green to work with and I chip it up to five feet, maybe four feet and I make it. That's awesome. You just get up and down after a kind of a weak iron and you continue to stay at three under with a par five coming up. Well, here's where the issue comes. I get to this par five and never in my life have I had this feeling in golf where I was immediately panicked at how it was the tightest golf hole I've ever seen in my life. It is literally like a bowling alley, the 14th hole at Stonebridge. It's 550 down a hill and there are all trees and woods, lost ball right, and the exact same thing left. Now, I didn't know in my head that left is red stakes hazard.

So I would be able to, if I hit it left into the hazard, drop up there and hit my third where it entered. Okay? I thought I knew right was like lost ball out of bounds. You're reteeing, playing a provisional, and you aren't finding it. That sucks. And I figured the same with left. So I'm kind of like, holy shit.

And I'm like, dude, I just need – and I'm not, I know I said I was trying to score as well as I could, but at this point, three under and knowing two overs probably getting in, I'm like, dude, I don't really need to go that much lower. Take my three iron. Now you take an iron to lay up on a par five, to feel more comfortable and to maybe not bring trouble into play and to kind of lay up a little bit. Well, I get this three iron in my hand and I'm still just as nervous because it's still the exact tightness of the hole. It's like, nothing's really changed.

It was so stupid, dude. I chunk this three iron 50 yards right into the woods. Lost ball. No, I'm like three off the tee. Now you got to go. Yup.

I'm like, are you fucking kidding me right now? Are you kidding me? And I take a deep breath and I'm like three off the tee. Now you got to go. Yup. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me right now? Are you kidding me? And I take a deep breath and I'm like, Oh my, just what a stupid decision. And I take my driver and I say, dude,

swing hard and commit to this shot. Cause I didn't commit at all to the three iron. And I tee it up after the two guys said, I have to say I'm playing a provisional, which by the way, I wasn't even, I didn't even want to go look for the first one. We had to give like the, what's the word I'm thinking of?

The courtesy look like it. I didn't even want to find it. It could have taken me 10 to get out of the woods if I did. I pound driver, an unbelievable shot to show up when it really counted. When if another one goes OB, I mean, dude, you can make it nine or 10, golf's golf. And I pound driver. I'm like, that a boy that's how to respond. And I hit an awesome three iron from there in just into the front of the green. And now I'm

thinking, dude, I'm chipping five here. I get up and down. It's a, it's a fake birdie six. It's a lost ball six. It'd be a hell of a bogey. And I hit the worst chip to like 10 feet. Horrible chunk. And I miss it. Double. But instead of being like really disappointed, I didn't get up and down for bogey. I thought, dude, you're still one under with four holes to go. And it was an awesome mental experience I had to like not panic really. And I was like, it was actually in my head. I was like, I was actually so proud of myself for making the double after that tee shot was that hard and that important after already putting one's OB. So I go to 15, I hit a five wood. It's like this weird, bizarre dog leg left where you can see the green from the tee, terrible hole. I hit a

five wood and i got 180 in i if i hit a good shot i would have had 130 maybe 140 and i push a six iron right and i'm short i'm actually just in the tree line i'm like in the in the woods but it's fine and i chip it long and then i two putt bogey i'm now even with three to go i'm like oh my, my God, dude. Don't even fucking talk to me. Get out of my face, Ryan. Can you get out of your own face? Well, par three is next. 165 up the hill.

I committed to an awesome eight iron and hit it to like 12 feet and just lipped it out. But it was a huge confidence booster to just get back an easy two-par par. 17's at par five, dead up a hill. It's 550, 100 yards uphill. And man, when I tell you that it's another kind of terrifying tee shot, all I said before was swing this so smooth

and so balanced and hold your finish. And I hit a nice one. It was a little up the right side, but it was a tight hole and it was a great shot. And I hit six iron to lay up, which is a little too much because it put me 70 yards out instead of, I kind of wanted to be a hundred. Well, I walked up to the green from 70 yards. I gunned it. It said 70 yards, but I walked up and I wanted to see what the green looked like. I'd never played the course. I walked back to my

ball and I hit it to three feet, knocked in a frigging birdie to get to one under. And that is how you respond after doubling 14 and bogeying 15. You make a great par at 16. You birdie 17. Now you're in the driver's seat. Now you got a three-shot cushion in your mind to make the cut of this tournament. And I go out on 18 and it's 430, dogleg left.

I murder a drive, absolutely melt one. I got 120 in. I hit a gap wedge to 15 feet. I put it up to a foot and I knock in a one under par 71 and qualify for the New England Am. So let me tell you something about, like, when you put in hard work to something. And now, mind you, tomorrow I can go hit balls, and I can be horrific.

But when I put in work, and I love this game, when you actually see results, it is the most satisfying feeling. So I'm pretty fired up. And, and yeah, that's that. I mean, well,

first off, I guess, all right, I'll take it. How long was that? Is that pain? Well, a timeout.

Congratulations, Ryan Whitney on qualifying for both of those. And considering that myself, Mike Grinnell and RA are the only people still listening to this, I think we should give ourselves a round of applause. But here's what I'll say. In my fake clap, I told all you losers, all you losers at home, to get off.

And you know what? I bet you the guys who I said don't even listen because I know you don't want to hear it, I bet you i bet you they stayed and listened i bet you're listening right now so listen to that golf talk and take it in and biz and ra you two could have left also grinelli has to stay and listen but that's because he's my buddy that does it that does it for episode 275 ra you are a champ for listening i actually enjoy w Witt's golf stories. And I just, I pray moving forward that that's the type of mental toughness you bring to the sandbaggers. Cause I'm sick and tired of caring.

Sandbaggers. I shot five under on the back against Crosby. Great seeing you all. Have a great week. Love you guys. Love you guys. Peace. As always,

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