Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 305: Featuring Alex Tuch + Derek Sanderson

Episode Date: November 5, 2020

On episode 305 of Spittin’ Chiclets, we are joined by Alex Tuch and Derek Sanderson. Alex joined (02:33) to talk about the bubble, his time in Vegas, growing up in the Syracuse area and a bunch more. We are then joined by Derek Sanderson (01:04:02), who returned to the podcast to discuss his sobriety and the modern day NHL. Whit wraps up with a tribute to the late great Travis Roy.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 305 of Spittin' Chicklets, presented by Pink Whitney, from our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka here in the Barstool Sports Podcast family. What's up, gang? Just R.A. right now. Just want to let you know, in case you missed our last episode, if you're not up to speed, November's going to be a little bit of a breather for the Chicklets boys. We usually do this in July or August after the Cup ends and free agency and the draft and all that. Obviously, things done changed this year,

but we're still going to drop a weekly episode with a pair of interviews to give you something to look forward to each week. Just want to reiterate how much we love all you guys and gals. And we can't thank you enough for the tremendous support this past season and beyond. We're not where we are without you folks. So again, thanks for the tremendous support. Today we have Vegas golden night, Alex Tuck and Bruins legend, Derek Sanderson, who's making his second appearance. So we get a nice little mix of the old and new

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and now we're going to send it over to Vegas Golden Knight Alex Tuck. Well it's a pleasure to welcome our next guest to the show. He just completed his fourth pro season, the last three with the Vegas Golden Knights. He was part of that historic run to the final during the expansion team's first season, and he recently returned home from the Edmonton bubble after Vegas made it to the Western Conference final

for the second time in just three years. Thanks so much for joining us on the show, Alex Tuck. How are you? Good. Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely.. Alex Tuck, how are you? Good. Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely. You back in Vegas now? Are you doing something else once the season's over?

No, I'm back in my cabin up in the Thousand Islands. Thought I'd take a little bit of time to decompress before heading back to Vegas. Next season's up in the air, so probably going to start working out in the next month or so. So born and raised in the Syracuse area? Yep. Born and raised. Played hockey there until area yep born and raised uh played hockey there till I was 15 and then um yeah he's probably 15 years older than you but are you aware of the legend of Tim Conley in those parts for the Syracuse Stars uh Tim Conley is actually my

next door neighbor um what parents live 10 yards apart from each other. We are still – Oh, so you're from Baldwinville. Baldwinville, yep. Oh, wow. Two freaks from this town. Two skilled studs. Two righties also. We have a pretty crazy street actually. We had two Division I lacrosse goalies, two NHL players. My little brother is getting drafted next week.

Fucking mailman just knocking up all the moms, eh? Really? We have a kid on the U.S. sled hockey team is on the other side of me, the Olympic sled hockey team. Another, the guy right next to him played in MLL for lacrosse and won a Division III lacrosse championship. And then Alex Bono on Toronto FC, the goalies are on the corner. Scott Blewett just had his Kansas City Royals debut about three blocks away.

What the fuck? Oh, my goodness. Christ, what's in the water up there? I don't know, but we all skated in my backyard ice rink, too. Oh, no shit. How old were you when you got that? Three. That's actually how I started playing.

My dad fell in love with hockey during, like, men's league and then just built an nice room for my backyard. I think it was 18 seasons. You know what's crazy? I remember doing that growing up, but now in Boston, it's weird. It doesn't really get cold enough every summer.

I mean, every winter, excuse me. Baldwinsville, you never have that issue. It's always free in the winter. It was always winter, excuse me. Baldwinsville, you never have that issue. It's always free in the winter, right? It was always perfect, I bet. Yeah, I had one year I came home and we golfed Christmassy. That's the only time it was like 55, 60. But yeah, Boston now, all these guys are doing the indoor-outdoor rinks. They got roofs over with their future system.

And you got the pipes underneath. It's crazy expensive like i i think that the the companies that come in and will build you one for a couple months just around here i don't think you can kind of rely on it being cold enough but that's a dream for any kid so so you're out there learning the game and just like having the best time of your life every day before and after school growing up no yeah my dad um well my dad put like a netting up behind the boards and stuff so we'd only shoot on one end so it was always take back like two on two three on three take back but he uh he put floodlights up so we were able to skate at night

too so it was i mean i don't even know what i would have done if i didn't have that honestly alex i want to bring up the bubble i know we'll get into your career a little bit later but this seems to be the more newsier thing. First off, tremendous job to the league, the players, staff, all the health workers, arena workers, so many people involved to make this happen, to pull it off. But maybe not for yourself in particular, but how taxing just did it get for some guys in there?

Like the Groundhog Day nature of it, only getting to play every other day. Is it as much of a mental grind as people assume? Yeah, I mean, you said it best. It was Groundhog Day. I knew exactly what I was going to do on every other day? Is it as much of a mental grind as people assume? Yeah, I mean, you said it best. It was Groundhog Day. I knew exactly what I was going to do on every game day, and I knew exactly what I was going to do on every non-game day. I mean, it was a little mentally taxing,

but they tried to do the best they could. Like, we went out to the CFL field, and we ran around the field a little bit. It was turf. It wasn't real grass. I don't think I saw real grass for the entire two months. But, I mean, they try to make it as homey as possible. And we had a lounge for our team, and there was a Tim Hortons truck out there.

And so, that was a lot of ice caps. No free ads. Were you in the Sutton Place? The ice cap, actually. I had so many of those. no free ads were you in the sudden place the ice cap actually i had so many of those oh that's were you were you in the sudden place the one where the ac broke no no thank god uh the top uh six teams going in we're all at the uh jw so we i heard that that because we were complaining about the wi-fi and and then our travel guy, who Biz knows,

wrote back to us and was like, hey, suck it up. The other guy's got to have no AC, and we're like, okay, that's fair. We'll shut up now. I still would have been like, yeah, but I'm trying to get some emails through. I'm trying to crank one off to fucking youjizz.com here, Bronco. That's what I was thinking, but I didn't say it. When the fags get dialed up, shut up and suck it up. Oh, shit. here at bronco that's what i was thinking but i didn't say it oh when the bikes get dial up shut up and suck it up oh shit so i mean there was an article that came out and and basically as it was presented before the players went up went out it was not as good do you think that that had as much of an impact on the guys as as it was made out to be in the article or do you think guys just

got over that quickly and we're like hey man man, we're here to play hockey, whatever? I mean, I bet a few guys probably complained or maybe to each other a little bit, like kind of bummed out. But, I mean, we all knew what we were there for, especially the teams that started going farther. We were like, you know what, like this sucks. I mean, you're away from your family. Like I'm a 24-year-old, pretty much a kid. I have no kids.

We have guys on my team. Patrick was about to have his fifth child. Like, guys are showing me videos. Oh, my daughter just learned to walk. And I'm sitting here like, oh, my God, I couldn't even imagine. But you kind of get over it a little bit, and you're like, hey, like, we're just going to grind it out. We're here for one reason.

I want to back it up before you guys even got to the bubble and before the shutdown uh more of a serious topic the coaching change how how big of a surprise did this come to you guys uh given the success that galant had had since you've been there and i know the team didn't get off to the the greatest start but i mean he was very well liked in that locker room. Yeah, no, I mean, originally we, I think we were in Ottawa when we found out we just played Buffalo. We went to Ottawa and we were like, Oh, meeting right after breakfast. And we're like, all right, well, we're going to get, we're going to a little pee pee whack,

a little slap in the back of the hands kind of McPhee, McCrimmon came in first. And then we're sitting there like all right we're like where's coach galant where's kelly like our other two assistant coaches were here we're looking around like oh we must be waiting for him and then mccrimmon starts this meeting and we're like all right this is a little weird and everyone's silent like like the full 10 minutes before he even started the meeting as soon as they walked through the door no one said a word because pretty sure we just lost or it was just a bad couple games and then he explained how uh they had let uh Gerard go and we were all like oh my god like first of all we were like okay we were playing bad but like we

were like oh my god like what's going on and then they told us that we were playing bad, but we were like, oh, my God. What's going on? And then they told us that we were hiring Pete DeBoer, and everyone was looking around the room like, after everything we went through in the past couple of years, we're going to hire our rival's head coach. And we're like, well, I think my first reaction was, uh-oh, this is not going to be good for Revo. Revo's like, this beer better sell.

If anyone remembers, they got it on camera a little bit during the Stanley Cup. You see Revo talking to Pete. And it wasn't even Revo talking to Pete. It was Revo staring at Pete during one of the games. And Pete started freaking out, like, stop looking at me. Like why you keep looking at me. Rebo didn't say a word and everyone knows he was the most intimidating guy to play in the NHL in the last, I don't know, however many years, no offense biz, but.

Oh fuck. He speed bagged me. Don't worry about that. Oh, I know. I watched the fight. Don't poke the bear. What's funny is when that all went down, when you guys fired Gallant and hired DeBoer, we were talking about that and that and what happened. And we were trying to figure out, I think we might've said, Oh, what's DeBoer doing talking shit to a player, right?

Biz or I might've said that turns out Rebo's just staring at him so much. He had to say something. I think it's very rare in today's NHL where coaches know, like you don't really talk to the players because even i think something happened with travis green in this year's playoff where i think it was initiated by i believe revo right was it he chirping there's a common denominator here all of the juicy details but i think i think it's okay for players to chirp coaches in a sense where like it's it's kind of funny. It adds humor.

Then the coaches can go at him, though. Absolutely. The coaches start, and it's a little – I think Terrian used to go at guys in the minors. He's like, you fucking pussy. It's like, dude, this guy's fighting the AHL. You're the color coke. Oh, yeah.

That's great. Remember, what was it? Was it Lindy Ruff back in the day? Or who was that? Well, Torts and Bob Hart hartley wasn't it that was the last one that was like that was beyond screaming at each other on the bench oh no pat remember patrick wata bruce boudreaux oh yes that one was the first game of the year his first game as head coach imagine how much coffee he had before that game he was nuts yeah coffee we'll go with that

yeah exactly not not not in the addies as a group of guys i'm sure you guys had the discussion do you think that you would have been able to figure out as a team despite the struggles early on like were you guys like upset for a little bit or was it kind of like business as usual whatever this is the situation let's go we're sitting here like this is pretty crazy like what is like everything going on and stuff I think we're a little bit in shock but I think we we have a pretty mature group we have an older group of guys and I think we would have figured it out but um you know what I it took a lot of guts for Kelly McCrimmon to do what he did uh because he was a GM and it was his decision and

um you know what a lot of people were probably pretty pissed off because I mean he was a GM and it was his decision and um you know what a lot of people were probably pretty pissed off because I mean he was our coach from day one and he brought us to the Stanley Cup finals and stuff and Kelly decided uh he thought that hey we needed something to be mixed up and why not do it up top and you know why we it worked out for us for a while I mean there was a little bit of um i don't know getting used to it i guess trying to figure his system out and everything like that uh it was a completely different system but after i don't know i'd say six to eight games we really started getting the groove of things we started winning and playing really good hockey i thought we were

dominating out there yeah actually that's what i was going to ask how long does it take for a team to get used to a new guy, get comfortable, you know, thinking about, oh, we have a new coach, you know, every other day? I mean, I'd say it takes an individual a little bit different times, but I think a team as a whole, it depends on the group of guys. It could take months sometimes if the team isn't good enough. We were only a point out of the playoffs

or a point out of a first play. I don't even know what it was, but we were four points out of first place or something like that. And so we were still a good team. It wasn't like we were trying to come up from the trenches there. It was, hey, like we have a chance to switch this around.

It gives us a new look. And I think his systems really fit our style of play. And I mean, he'd watched us closely for the last couple years and so i think he knew the majority of guys very well and i thought he did a really good good job so i'm i'm gonna actually take it back to like your arrival in vegas and getting to be a part of that first year one of the best stories ever but i mean dude you were a high pick and in minnesota all of a sudden they're trading you like give me the give me the thought process when that all went down

and kind of like how you approached it because it turns out it's probably the best thing that could have happened for you just get into vegas and pretty much dominating right away yeah no well i found out i was because i was too young to get picked up in the expansion draft um didn't need to get protected or anything like that and i found out on twitter that i was getting traded no idea which who tweeted it uh michael russo uh who's kind of like the insider there for a while um i'd done interviews with him before so i i was like okay this guy's probably the most credible source coming out of minnesota and i was in the middle of workout and my my buddy i was working out with goes hey you just got traded and i'm sitting here like oh very funny like he's like

yeah you're going to vegas i'm like oh that's even better i know the expansion drafts tonight and we were laughing and there was like speculations like there was like i don't know like one article that said oh maybe tuck and that was like two months prior and i didn't think much of it and then um i was sitting there i called my agent and i was like he's like i haven't heard anything so my agent hadn't heard anything we weren't able to find out until like 11 or 12 in the morning and so i'm sitting here like waiting and then i get the other call from chuck fletcher confirming it all and i was was like, all right, so I'm going to watch the expansion draft now for sure. Who am I playing with?

I have no, I want, I'm sitting here. I'd only played six games a year before. So I'm trying to make the team. I'm trying to make the NHL still. So I decided, uh, the best case scenario was the best case. Um, sorry. The best idea for me was probably to go play golf. So I decided to go play around so i'm playing golf and i get a call from a winnipeg number i get a call from kelly mccrimmon on the golf course i just teed off on the par three um hit the green thank god just gonna ask that so i get a call from him and i'm like and he's like hey and he like told me the whole situation the whole trade that was going on.

They said they really wanted me. They really saw me as a, as a guy in their team this year. And I was, I was pumped. And then I get a call like 10 minutes later from Gerard Gallant. And I was, I was just pumped. Like I, I think I might've played 15 holes. I just couldn't even finish. I had to go home and start watching, like, the NHL network and stuff and start texting people. And it was just – I don't know.

It was crazy. Did they give you the sense on that phone call that you were going to have a legitimate chance to be on that team? Like, you were already slotted in? Not slotted in, I wouldn't say. But I think it was a legitimate chance. Like, they said, like, we see that if you come in and work hard and do what we know what you can do, you can probably make this team.

We don't know how the team's going to shape out yet. There's still a lot of things up in the air with the expansion draft, but you're going to come in with a really good shot to make the team. And then, yeah yeah the rest of the summer i just worked really hard and i ended up going to like that expansion draft happened i i'm getting texts and stuff and then like two days later they're calling me asking me to go to this road trip across montana for like a day for like they're trying to like reach out the fans and i'm like yeah i'll do that and then they're trying to like reach out the fans. And I'm like, yeah,

I'll do that. And then they're like, Hey, you want to come to development camp? And I'm 21 years old. And I've been to like three development camps already. And you're usually not supposed to do more than that. I'm like, yeah, I'm coming. So I was immediately like, I'm going to do everything in my power. Nice team, I'm going to go to development camp, I'm going to do this road trip, I'm going to do any interview they asked me to do. No, that's the way. No, you got to dig in early. Whit, you had a question there. No, I was just – I need to know, like, so you're as high pick.

The game's all about speed. You're one of the fastest players in the league. And Minnesota one year. It's like was there a little, like, fuck you, I'm going to prove them wrong? Or were you kind of like, no, I'm just moving on to another spot? Was there a little like, fuck you, I'm going to prove them wrong? Or were you kind of like, no, I'm just moving on to another spot? Hey, I wasn't that fast in Minnesota.

You hadn't become that great skater yet. No shit. I worked with a guy out of Rochester, Francois Mathot. Frankie, I'll always give him a lot. I've worked with a lot of skills coaches that have helped me get to where I am today. But skating was mostly Francois Matha. Okay, Francois, he may sign seven years, 33 sheets. Just remind yourself at Christmas time. You're right.

Yeah, exactly. But no, I went out. It was in Rochester. So I was still living in Syracuse. So it was like an hour 10, hour 20 drive. And I do it like once or twice a week. And I go in and do all this skating. And we broke down my stride completely.

Like tore it down, everything. Everything was different. But the biggest thing was probably, if you want to go technical, was the crossovers or the lateral crossovers while skating forward. So you ever watch McDavid skate? Paul, I got a boner just thinking about it it's never straight it's crossing over mid-stride these guys are crossing over and by by doing that they're gaining speed instead of just trying to push harder when you're skating straight they're crossing over and that allows you to go faster so he worked with me on that

did a bunch of power edge pro and just it was a whole summer it's four months my summer was a lot longer that summer which really helped when you say power edge pro is that like a software where they're using the ipads in order to film you so you can see no these are these tools on the ice they have like a whole it's a whole company called power edge pro like they have a whole camp they have like a bio steel camp and there's like a power edge pro camp in toronto but i was doing in rochester it's just these little like plastic things that they uh trademarked and like sold to a bunch of teams and a bunch of pro guys use them and a bunch of trainers use them but was was was videoing it and watching it the way you

were able to like uh to train your muscles in order to do that because i think that's fascinating at that age you were able to pick that up everything so he would take it and he had this whole thing where he would like show me the the angle that i was like my we call them quick starts like when you start from a stop position he would show me the angle that i needed to be at the how how i guess how straight your legs got, so your push, everything like that. And we kind of broke it down. And then after you get it down, it's all about repetition. So he just bagged me for two months straight.

Do you have to – oh, I was going to ask if you – sorry, with the hop in. Do you have to constantly during the course of the season go back to it in order to – so you don't kind of get away from the new things that you've learned? Or have you completely retrained your mind to never go back to the way you used to do it? I completely retrained because I wasn't only doing it on the ice, but whenever I was doing sprints or any off-ice workouts,

we're all about that full extension. We're all about that angle of acceleration and stuff like that. So that summer, and then I continue to work during the season, but I continue to do stuff like that in the summer. So I'm trying to continue to get faster too. So it's very interesting to me because like you don't hear that often with NHL guys.

But it happens in golf a lot. I'm a golf nut. And guys literally change their swings. They try to change their swing. And one of the craziest part about it is the saying like feel isn't real. Like what you feel if you look at on video it's not at all what's happening did you kind of notice the same with hockey that like you'd be feeling like you'd maybe be doing something and he's like dude look at it on the video it's not even at all what you think yo especially when he was trying to teach me this new technique it would feel so weird i'm like oh no i'm slipping

or like yeah i don't think I'm really moving that fast. And like when you have the full extension, you try to get the biggest strides possible. And by getting those big strides, you're really going faster. Like we were timing it, like we were doing all these things. And it was, it was huge. I say, I know McDavid has that speed McKinnon, those guys, but if you want to see a guy who has probably the longest, smoothest stride, you look at my former teammate, Jack Eichel.

That guy's stride is insane. He's deceptively fast. He's not moving when you're watching on TV, but he's just buzzing by people. He's the most cool guy I've ever played with. We were 16 years old, and he was hand-cleaning 315. I remember that. I remember it.

He was a legitimate freak. And we heard about him because he's from, you know, my neck of the woods. He is like, I think he's the kid who would have been a pro athlete in any sport he really decided to play. RA, before you hop in here, I just want to ask one more thing is regarding to the skating. How long before then you can incorporate stick handling?

Because then you've got to do it with a puck on your stick. Yeah, well, that was where the PowerEdge Pro came into play. So you're using this PowerEdge Pro. So we're doing small ice skills with the PowerEdge Pro, tight turns like putting the puck through the little plastic stick or underneath the little plastic piece. But we're also doing full length where I'm using that full cross, lateral crossover while stick handling through them,

like weaving through them. Unreal. Alex, I want to mention expansion teams in the NHL had historically been awful. Obviously you guys were an exception to the rule. How deep into that first season did the guys in the room realize that they might be able to do something special that year? 10 games. No shit. Really? Well, we started, to do something special that year. 10 games. No shit.

Really? Well, we started, I, I wasn't there for the first four games. We started winning and I don't think like, I always go back and forth on this. I've been asked this a million times, but I really think if we really thought about 10 games,

we started out eight, one in one or something like that. I don't know exactly all the numbers, but we were sitting and I was just a young kid I'm like just trying to work my ass off every night and play my hardest and stuff like that and we got a lot of bets we got guys like James Neal, Marc-Andre Fleury, guys like that and you're just and they're sitting here probably thinking like hey we actually have a good team like we had I thought McPhee did an unbelievable job they everyone keeps talking

about it it was crazy what kind of players he was doing and uh what type of players he was getting and stuff like that and uh probably screwed over a few nhl gms in the process but oh yeah we had a really good team we were deep we were all playing for each other we all got chip on our shoulder we all want like if we were playing like um i don't know flor had that chip on our shoulder. We all want, like, if we were playing, like, I don't know, Florida, we'd always want to win for Riley Smith and Jonathan Marshall. Oh, yeah. That kind of thing. And it went around.

We had guys from almost every team. Yeah. Is the Vegas flu a real thing or what? First year, yeah. Love it. Yeah. Well, like, they're coming in, and I think – Fuck, you had it half the nights.

What was that? I said you had it half the nights. Yeah, but no, he had a vaccine for it. Yeah. That was the year that they started making IVs illegal for NHL players. Oh, geez. But no, I mean, like, we either had – either had like guys were coming in and they were playing Arizona the night before and then coming to play us which was huge and then or the guys were going

out I mean it's Vegas what do you expect especially the first trip I remember talking to um Callahan uh out of Rochester I was skating with him one day, and he's like, yeah, Coop's already got a four-, five-day trip planned for us. We're staying for three extra days and stuff. And I'm like, what is going on? Everyone was just using it as like, all right, you know what? Everyone knows what's going to go on, so let's just be open about it. We're getting after it all. There was one team.

I don't remember who it was. Washington. No, there was a after it all. There was one team. I don't remember who it was. Washington. No, there was a team that went in day a game. No chance Washington did that. Anaheim. Anaheim did it. But there was also a team that stayed off the strip. Can anyone guess the GM that made the team stay off the strip?

Lou Lamorello. Like guys aren't going to be in a beautiful black town car 10 miles away or wherever they're staying like what i know but like i mean you want your team to perform the best as possible but we were also getting taken for granted too we were like oh expansion drafts all these guys won a couple lucky games and then it got towards the end of the seat like halfway through the season teams are like okay these guys are actually a legitimate team. So I had a quote that before the finals, it might have been all of the playoffs, they had like all these different quotes of people saying, shitting on the Golden Knights before the season started.

And I was one of the clowns on NHL Network. I'm like, they're going to be the doormat for the league. And they would play it. They would pump it in to get the crowd fired up. Now, granted, here's the thing. I didn't know Williamiam carlson was that good he gets 43 shea theodore's just this filthy nasty defenseman like nate schmidt was there was all these players that you kind of understand how good the nhl is i'm kind of

long-winded here because i do have a question but you understand how good the nhl is because there's guys in every organization if they get a different role if they get a different chance like they could explode. But the thing I was kind of long winded in is that you started, you got sent down out of camp, right? Were they like, Hey, you're going to be right back up? Or was it more, you know, you're kind of rattled and a little worried that it could be longer than,

than just four games. No. So Shay Theodore went in right before me and they brought us, they brought him in and then they said the same exact thing to me. And they go, well, we got some good news and bad news. Good news is you made the team. Bad news is you're going down to Chicago. So I was sitting here like, Oh, okay. Like, like, and he's like, well, we don't know how for how long there's still about,

because we were over in contracts. We had so many one way guys. They're trying to, you had like nined to start i think crazy crazy and stuff they're like yeah we like like we saw you as like a top six or at least top nine forward like you played to the top six and stuff like that we thought you played really well but you're on a two-way and we won't lose you if you send you down so uh we'll see you when we see you and i went down for i think i played three games in chicago and i missed four games with vegas and then i was back up and didn't go down after so i i guess i gotta ask you to start that season of course the vegas shooting happens you're i would assume at that point you'd already been sent down

but i mean just the the way that the whole city kind of you know got together especially after that and really rallied around the team and I think that you guys were kind of like their uplifting spirit in that moment first game is it was against kicking it was against the coyotes and I and I was there and it was you know it was very emotional but I think that that really had kind of spearheaded it what was the feeling in the room after that and and you know what do the guys make of spearheaded it. What was the feeling in the room after that? And, and, you know, what do the guys make of the whole situation? Well, I was actually there during the shooting.

So they were still during training camp. This was, I think the day, two days before I got sent down. Cause I got sent down the day before the first game, cause that was a cutoff day. So I got sent down like the third or something like that. The shooting happened on the first and we had a, we had an exhibition game like at like four o'clock that day, like random like game. And we walk out and it was like,

Lucas Pisa, Cody Eakin. And I can't remember who else was there, but we're like, Oh, like we got bands to go to the concert. Like, what do you guys think? And a few of us were like, ah, like it sounds good. Like we were, we were, we were 50, 50, like, Oh, should we go to the concert? And we're like, ah, no, let's just go to dinner. So we ended up going to dinner. So we were so close to going to the concert. That was the scariest part.

And then we're sitting at dinner and one of the guys brings up twitter and was like holy crap there's a shooting in vegas and we're like oh yeah probably just one guy got shot he's like there's like 52 people injured right now or like dead and like people were on twitter were like there's 80 dead 100 dead and we're sitting here like oh my god like what is going on and then chaos was like people started like kind of leaving dinner as soon as they could but it was like chaotic people were coming back in like i can't even leave the hotel they shut down the hotels they shut down the strip we were there at the hotel um which like originally we were gonna like they told us like hey like you guys like um gotta go wait in the lobby and then we couldn't even get off the floor so they're like i'll just come back in and

hang out like what else can you do you're you're you're shocked that was so shocking and i i'm sitting across the country that was just i i'll yeah i'll never forget that and then the way the city came around like what you guys did it was, I can't imagine you get up there and the, you know, the year before you're up and down and now like you've cemented yourself when like, you know, halfway through the season, like, dude, I'm top six on this team. It must've been such a good feeling. One playing in a city that's so fun. These home games are legit parties every night and you're just in Vegas.

It must've been the best year ever. Yeah. 21 year old kid. I was, I was single. I was enjoying life. I had friends always coming in, visiting family. Everyone loved coming in to visit and stuff. And it was, it was probably one of the best years of my life. Honestly, made the NHL. I got the housing letter like two months in, and it was, I don't know, it was like the best moment ever.

Shea Theodore and I got the housing letter same day. We got the email. We decided to go rent a house. We were all out to the west side of Vegas in Summerlin near the practice facility. That's a 15-minute Uber. You can hop in an Uber, be there in 15 minutes. I had some fun nights.

Let's just say that. During the playoff run, were guys ever looking at each other kind of almost in dispute thief, like we're going this far, or was it just kind of like a quiet confidence through the group during that whole time? I think it was a little bit of both. I think we knew we had a good team, but we just went in there and we were like, Hey, you know what?

We have no, no one has any expectations. We were underdogs until we were in the finals against Washington, which I was surprised we weren't underdogs. They had a hell of a team. I mean, they were, I mean, Ovechkin, I don't even know. he's been trying at this for I don't know how many years so they had a hell of a team too and uh we were underdogs against LA swept LA and we were like oh my god like what did we just do and then we went into San Jose underdogs again um should have beat him in five ended up beating him in six or something like that

um and then we go against Winnipeg and we're like okay this seems good i mean they were huge on the back end bufflin myers truba and then they had shifley wheeler kyle connor was coming into his own and they were unbelievable team and we beat him in five after getting i thought we were dominated game one they beat us six to four we ended up having some lucky goals um and then we won four straight and we were dominated game one they beat us six to four we ended up having some lucky goals um and then we won four straight and we were sitting here like what what the hell just happened and then we go to the finals and um i think our biggest mistake was winning game one and then sitting here and being like oh my god we're three games away from winning. So looking back, if we were thinking about it, I wish we would have been like, you know what? That game doesn't matter.

It's 0-0 in the series and play it again. But it didn't. As for that line, don't forget what you're playing. Vegas didn't want to take too much of a bath on you guys. But one thing I want to bring up, and I hate to do it, but the Holtby save, I mean, it's part of Stanley Cup law. You almost tied game two. Was that the most shocked you've ever been on the ice in your career?

Yeah. I almost got knocked out by Wilson or something right afterwards, too. And I was just – I just, like, stood there and I, like, just looked in disbelief. I had no idea. And in the line after the series was over, Holpe looks at me and goes, that was the luckiest save of my career. Oh, yeah, thanks. That makes me feel better.

Yeah, I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit, Holpe. Well, yeah, let's just say I got some hate mail on Twitter. I still see it. It still gets tweeted at me and stuff like that. But, I mean, it sucks. But would that have changed the entire series? Maybe.

No one will ever know. However you have to sleep at night, Tucker. I actually just rewatched it. Orpik, another BC guy, almost crushed you after. It was like eight seconds after the save yeah yeah that was a late one but he wasn't um I think in game five I went I I yeah because I don't know too well and we were both BC guys I think I met him once before but he's a man we had I think Riley Smith is scored in game five and he was just it was a salt on william carlson behind the net like on top of

them and carlson's our best player and i'm i think it was on the power play and you just see me i throw my stick aside and like riley smith celebrating the corn and i go full superman and tackle orpik off of them we're wrestling around we're standing up and then i got uh john carlson coming in here and i got marshy trying to jump on john carlson's back so i got one arm on john carlson i got another arm on brooks orpik and i got riley smith and jonathan marshall and wilson carlson who are not guys that you wanted to scrum behind you and i'm trying to hold on to these guys but um come on boys yeah seriously i'll take you guys.

Leave those guys alone. Hit me. I got to ask you about that crowd. That's the loudest crowd in the league for sure now. I'm jealous. I want to go watch a game. I need to go to a game there. It's a party nonstop.

Best people watching ever in between TV timeouts, first and foremost. There are some absolute crazy people, some creatures up in the crowd, but we love them. They're awesome. It's awesome. Oh, you mean like the super fans who wear like the shoulder pads and they're kind of like Raiders fans. They're dressed all crazy like in Vegas.

Like it's awesome. I mean, it's a full party. I mean, it's the loudest stadium ever. Like I think – I don't know. I can't remember who I was playing against, but he looks over at me and he goes, are you kidding me? You were the luckiest guy ever. Like, and I'm like a 21 year old kid. It was like my fifth game and I'm like, yeah, I know. Like it's crazy. But like teams I mean, like, we score, and we have the momentum.

Like, if we score first, there's 95% chance we'll probably win that game. Hey, Biz just mentioned the Raiders. Obviously, they're new to town, but you're from upstate New York, so you're going to remain a couple in the Bills Mafia? Are you going to be a Raiders fan now? How's that going to play out? I wasn't the biggest Bills fan growing up. Okay.

I don't want to pigeonhole you. When I went to Boston College, I did like the Patriots because when they won, college was a lot more fun. My first ever NFL game was with the Vikings, but I think I've got to be a Raiders fan. I've got to cheer for

those guys. They supported us. I saw my boy Foster there. I haven't met him yet, but he was wearing my jersey walking to the first game this year. So that was pretty cool. I saw that on Twitter. That's awesome. R.A. seems to think that he thought of your guy's mascot.

He thinks that he created Chance. Why is that? You've got to hear this explanation. So you've got to find out for us. This is when we had 100 listeners on our show. I would incessantly tweet the Las Vegas hockey handle about naming the team the Gila Monsters because I just figured I always like animal names. It's a local animal, and they obviously went with Golden Knights,

and then they brought the mascot out, Chance, which is a great name, and it was a Gila Monster. I just thought it was a really big coincidence that after I tagged him a hundred times in tweets that all of a sudden that's the random lizard they decided to use for their mascot. Maybe you could talk to Tose about it, see what he knows. Yeah, I'll let Tose know. That was all you.

I'll let him know. He'll send you the money for the trademark. Hey, so I've long on this podcast said I don't give a shit about how BC guys do, but I will say that we're talking to a guy fellas who, when you mentioned the beanpot scored the OT winner to beat you to win a bean. Wow. What do you remember about that night?

And I want a couple of beanpots, but I didn't score an OT to tuck one. By the way, the game was zero, zero biz. How boring was that hockey game? That's your Demko was our goalie. Decent.

And I ended up – I think I just threw a puck on – I threw a puck on that. Came across the blue line. I was above the top of the circles. I wasn't even looking at the net. And I threw one on net because Zach Sanford on St. Louis is going to the back post. And I threw one about a little above the pad. And I'm hoping for a rebound it goes

post in and then it was just chaos and like you know about the beanpot all the top of the stands are filled with your classmates and stuff the cheapest seats and the building just erupts on the one side of the building uh gloves off guys are freaking out that's probably one of the biggest party nights you can be a part of i remember at the mods which is the senior dorms of boston college uh dancing with the beanpot on top of my head with about 40 kids spraying me with beer i got video of my dad drinking out of the beanpot when we went to one of the we went to a restaurant and then i i don't remember most of the night though honestly oh hey biz so bu like the when bu wins you're dry you take the bus back

from the garden to bu and you always have to go and unload your gear right when you get back well that night that one night you stop on the bu bridge and boom the seniors get out and they just go right to the bar they go right down and then, oh, you take care of their gear. That's the thing. If you win it, it's your gear, right? That's unbelievable. They're getting off my fresh air. We won.

We're just clapping for these guys. It's like you know you're about to have the biggest night of your college career. Oh, yeah. I think some of the guys, some of my predecessors were telling me, national championship is huge because you can get away with anything afterwards. But the beanpot is a whole other – it's a different animal, exactly. I hate to be the buzzkill here. I want to go back to the situation where you guys are in San Jose

in the playoffs the year before. And the five-minute major and the meltdown like what is going through your mind I I'm not sure if you're a penalty killer uh or if you've ever been but you're sitting on the bench watching this all go down uh no I was not a penalty killer I sat on the bench and shock um I I think I stepped on the ice one time after like one time in overtime after that and that was it but it was just like what was going on like everything that could go wrong for us went wrong like first of all we were all so pissed off about the penalty not not a five-minute major a penalty call interference two minutes sure okay uh apparently I don't know if everyone knows this,

but, like, there's a screw that, like, poked him in the side of the head from his helmet. Like, he fell awkwardly. Well, he ran into two guys in the face-off. He ran, like, he can push them or something, and then he ran into Stasny, fell awkwardly, hit his head, and, like, a screw from inside his helmet, like, poked him. Like, it wasn't in place correctly or something something like that and then that's why he started bleeding

and no one knew why he was bleeding it wasn't like it was this huge head it wasn't high it wasn't like he got cross-checked in the face obviously it was before reviews and these guys went over uh conference for a while and was like five minute major and we're sitting here like what because we could see the the replay but they're not allowed to look at it. Like, this is horse shit. So we go in the penalty kill. All right, five minutes from kill to stop. We're up 3-0.

One, two, three, four goals. And we're like, what just happened? And then we go out and we score and tie it up. Marcia ties it up. And we're like, what the hell is going on and then um they ended up um what's the feeling in the room before overtime are you guys still livid or are you guys like fuck it we tied it let's just collect our thoughts here we'll get an ot uh i think like we kind of we were like all right like we're pissed off like let's go like almost like

let's take it to them like they don't deserve to win this game like we deserve of we were like all right like we're pissed off like let's go like almost like let's take it to them like they don't deserve to win this game like we deserve to win this game kind of thing and we went out there and we played I mean it didn't last long but we honestly I think we still had a little bit of the momentum and we had a couple opportunities and they went down and and scored though and we were just like oh my god like how the what just happened kind of thing like we felt so bad for ekin and like he's one of my good friends on the team for the first few years and it was just like i couldn't even imagine what was being said to him on social media like it was just clowns clowns no it's just a bunch of trolls and that's what we that's what

you deal with all the time the p we say it a here, but the people who would never say a word to you in person. All right, so the crazy first year happens. In the second year, you come back. You have an even better season, and then you go into this past summer, which feels like the beginning of this season was seven years ago, but you get the awesome contract. Take me through that part of it. Like you're talking to your agent and you're hearing what you could get offered. Like what, how did that all go down? And I mean,

it just must've been so great. Yeah. So I actually, um, signed an extension like one game into the second season, but fun fact, I have never played a season opener. Yeah, I'll get to that in a second. But the extension happened, like, right before game two. I was hurt. McPhee brought me into his office, and he sits me down, and he goes –

and I'm sitting here, and I'm like, what did I do wrong? I'm like, George is calling me into his office. What did I do wrong now? He sits me down, and he goes, what did I do wrong? I'm like, George is calling me into his office. What did I do wrong now? He sits me down and he goes, do you like playing here? And I'm like, yeah, I really do. He's like, do you want to play here for a while? And I was like, yeah, I do. He's going to tell me to stop screwing around or something like that.

And he goes, well, we want to offer you a contract extension. And I go, what? And I actually kind of go, I go, go George I did not think you were actually going to say that to me I honestly thought I was gonna unbelievable this is the best surprise and he goes he was really I go yeah but I would love to talk about a contract extension that would be unbelievable so uh yeah back to the never had a uh oh but the contract extension it was um i don't know it was we went back and forth a little bit on it um honestly i wanted a long deal i love playing in vegas i wanted security uh it will it wasn't i came off

a good rookie season but it wasn't i think if i waited good rookie season, but it wasn't – I think if I waited until after my second year and I had my 50-something points, I probably could have gotten more money. But if I had done that, we probably wouldn't have been able to sign Mark Stone. We wouldn't have been able to get some of the guys that we have now. And so I think I took a very fair deal and it helped our team. And I think it's good for me too. I mean, it's a shit ton of money.

And I was very happy about it. I mean, it's no state tax, no state tax. Yeah. Always got to think about that. But yeah, so I never played a, I've never played a like a season opener. I've been hurt the past two years and the first year I got sent down before. You played on the Tampa assistant dark alone back in Iowa a few years back. Once your team got bounced, were you pulling for him at all? Did you have a relationship with him, or did you even care at that point? Yeah, no, I had a really good relationship with actually Newsy, we call him.

Or if you want to get really technical, Gru, because he looks like grew from did you see the kucherov clip i don't know if it's a clip i heard a story yeah it's not a clip i don't know what i'm saying but he i heard a story that like they're doing a power play meeting and it's like dead silent in the room and grew's running it and then all of a sudden kucherov's like grew that's who you are grew like it i think he like knew in his head it clicked in yes who is this guy and he finally like middle of a pp meeting and everyone's like oh shit that's that's awesome because we had like back when like that pick stitch thing was like

really big we were in i was in iowa and i made this pick stitch of him next to grew and then our video coach looked like Dr. Nefario, the evil scientist with the double chin and stuff, and it was perfect. So a bunch of us went as like minions for Halloween because of it. But, no, he was a great guy, and I'm really happy for him. It's an unbelievable achievement for him, and I'd say he's probably a really good assistant coach. I don't know.

I think he could be a head coach in the future, but I think he went up the ladder so fast. I think with a lot of – we had a few veterans and stuff. It was probably a little bit difficult for him, especially first year. But he was a great coach. I really liked him. Funny, I was actually at North Adams School out in Western Mass, and I was a 23-year-old junior.

He was a 23-year-old graduate from, I think he went to Colton State. He was an assistant back then. 25 years ago at this D3 school that was about to kill their program, and he's worked his way up all the way up to there to win a Stanley Cup. So I just, you know, give him props. It's a hell of a job. All right. Is that the same year that you took a loan out to go on a cruise?

On spring break? Yeah, I think it might have been the year before by then i was i was making pretty good cash at college by then so i could pay cash um tuck i was gonna ask you you know this season as far as the regular season was concerned i maybe you you underachieve compared to the year previous but was there any one was there anything that you did differently in the off season as far as training that led to that but then also during the reboot what did you do in order to prepare yourself for what I thought was an incredible run for you in playoffs this year are you asking if I slacked off last summer is that what you're asking not in so many words no I I came in in really good shape, honestly. I had a little bit of, I guess, a couple bumps and bruises

during this offseason, I'd say. But I came in and actually I broke my hand during preseason. And then I came back two games later and I got another injury against Winnipeg, the hit from Lowry to the jaw. So I was out for another five games after that. And then coming back in, I was healthy, but I was still – I wasn't myself. And then that led to – and then we had a bunch of guys randomly getting hurt,

especially on the third line. We had a couple guys up and down down in and out of the lineup. I mean, I played with Zikoff for a little bit, and then he had the 20-game suspension, Eakin, and then he gets traded. Stasny was up and down a little bit. Chandler Stevenson got traded. I was with probably like eight, nine different guys. So I never really had the chemistry

I think my confidence wavered a little bit and then I ended up ending the season with another injury and I was just about to come back and then redid it right before coronavirus so I was rehabbing during this whole time I ended up getting in probably the best shape of my life. I lost 10 pounds. I was playing at 216, 27, probably 215, 216 instead of around 226 like I was in the past couple seasons. And I felt really good. I was working with our skills coach a lot on the ice or our strength coach upstairs. It was great. Awesome. Congratulations. And sorry to throw you under the bus there with that question. Yeah, but that's the hard-hitting journalism that we're known for, bringing the hard questions.

I respect the hell out of that. My last thing for you is this has been awesome, dude, but we have the best thing in common in that the National Team Development Program, for people who don't know what that is, you go at the time when I was there as Ann Arbor, but what an experience because you go out and you meet, you know, the best players your age in the country, in the U S well, the most part guys who aren't playing major junior,

but you go out and you play so many games you're working on every day. You must've loved your experience there. No. Yeah, no, I did. I loved it. It was a little bit hard for me. It is dude. It was hard, but I look back now and I'm so happy I did it. Oh no, I did. I loved it. It was a little bit hard for me. It is, dude. It was hard, but I look back now and I'm so happy I did it. Oh no, me too. And I, I, I wouldn't be where I am today without it. I don't think. But I was, I was the oldest moving away from home. I was naive and I was a little bit of a bitch, but first year was a struggle. I played fourth line center. Like I wasn't like even projected to get drafted, any of that,

like maybe potentially on size alone. Second year, I was like moved my way up the third line for the first couple weeks. And then our coach ended up moving me on the first line with Milano and Eichel for one game. And I ended up having five points and the other two had four points. And then they just kept me on the line the rest of the year. And that's why I was able to move my way up into the first round. First rounder.

Yeah, it helps when you have those two guys as your line mates. Yeah, that's no joke. No doubt. Go ahead, Ari. Oh, sorry, I mean to cut you off. I want to go back to the bubble real quick. Were there any close encounters among rivals in any of the hotels where guys, you know, were cracking each other in the face the night before

and then have to be in an elevator or walk down the hallway across from a guy and he had that type of shit go on? No, I don't think so. I, I mean, I jumped on top of her tan during one of the games. I think everyone remembers that. And then I rode in the elevator with him two days later. Do you guys chuckle? Do you guys chuckle about it? We just looked at each other.

I think I was walking out and he was walking in. And I go, Jake? He goes, Tuck? And we just kept going. A little ball tap, eh? Bag tap. I mean, that's what happens. I mean, like, and our little scrum on the ice probably happened since World Juniors

back when we were 18, 19 years old, we've, we've always kind of gone at it a little bit I'd say. But I mean, that's just, that's just how it is. It's U S Canada boys. But no, I mean, I think that if Antoine Roussel ever rode an elevator with Robin Leonard, that'd be a little dangerous. Why was, was, was he being, was he being gutless a little dangerous. A couple of cats in the sack. Why?

Was he being gutless a little bit during that round? Roussel just chirps and chirps. It's part of his game, and my guy's doing stuff, and he probably said some – I don't know exactly. Cross the line. No. Leonard wouldn't even tell us some of the stuff that he said. Oh, fuck.

No, I mean – but let me tell you this about Lenny. First time I ever met Lenny, he walks in, and I'm injured at the time, and I'm getting treatment done. And Revo comes in, and then they start chirping each other, jokingly. And then next thing you know, they're, like, talking about, like, who's tougher and stuff. And then they started, like, grappling a little bit. And then it got a little bit more serious. And thenny like you see this switch go off and he literally picks up Revo who's 225 pretty much gets up on his heels and like sets him up on the cabinet and Revo goes oh my god like

what just happened and we're all like in awe he's like he's massive he's like the strongest human being ever he's so scary like honestly he's walking around there and like a hoodie like in the bubble hoodie flap rim like and shorts and sandals the entire time and he's the scariest looking human being ever but he's the nicest and he's all tatted up too right all tatted up huge beard long blonde hair, like just, I mean, the guy's insane. Yeah. Absolutely insane. Take me through.

Oh, go ahead, Bess. Well, I was just going to say, I heard he's an unbelievable guy, and I was probably going to ask what you were going to ask, Witt. Was it an odd dynamic when the whole drama on social media? What about the tweet? Yeah, what was going on? Were you guys all chuckling about it behind the scenes? Well, at first we were like, what is this?

Like, what's going on? It's so weird, the picture. You've had Fleury on here. You've had Flaura on here. Oh, he's the best. He's the best human being ever, ever. He will not say a mean thing about anybody. It doesn't matter.

But we're like, there's no way that he ever would tell anyone to do that. He is such a team-oriented guy. And him and Robin talked about it. And Robin's like, there's no way Mark did this. So they talked about it. They were fine. We laughed about it a little bit. But it was still kind of awkward.

Like, other teams and stuff were, like, looking at us when we were at dinner, like, looking at Flower, like, what is going on? I mean, that was out of left field, like, crazy. It's a tough situation for both of them too. Like Robin just felt bad. He's like, what do I do? And we're sitting here. We just want to support both of them.

Whoever's in net, we're going to play hard for them. We're going to support. We're happy to have them in net. I thought they were two of the best goalies in the world at the time, like top five, top whatever you want to call them. It was the best goalie tandem by far. Do you think it affected the team dynamic a little bit or do you think that played no reason into why you guys lost to dallas in five games no flower spoke up after a meeting but we were all like didn't even think anything other we're like yeah you can like flower

we don't blame you at all like he's like like, Oh, didn't want any outside distractions. And we're like, it doesn't matter. Like we're fine. And then we just kept going. So it wasn't anything crazy. Like we weren't like awkward about it, getting mad at each other or anything like that. What about flower though? Is he still a, still a prank guy? He tortured people in Pittsburgh. All right. So yeah. Best guy ever.

But I have personally two unbelievable flower pranks. And one was, he was hurt. Wasn't even on the road trip. He still denies it was him. It was a hundred percent him. He's the only one that could mastermind anything like this. I go, it was, we were, I think pregame skating in Ottawa. So I have my full suit except for my, I think even my tie, I think we might've gotten off the plane or something and we were i think pre-game skating in ottawa so i have my full suit except for my i think even my tie i think we might have gone off the plane or something and we were coming to practice and i step off off the ice to shower i go to get dressed and i go to put my underwear on

and there's a big hole cut out right in front and then i go to put my socks on, and the toes are chopped completely off. Okay, I put my pants on. I go to put my shoes on. One of the laces is gone. I go to put my tie on, and the back part is, like, completely, like, cut down. Like, so the front's fine, but the back is just a pain in the ass. And then I go to put my hand, like, in my – like, to check and see if I have everything. I go to put my hand in my pocket. This to check and see if I have everything I go to put my hand in my pocket it's the best thing ever it was sewn shut the pocket was sewn

shut I couldn't get to my room key and I was like this is absurd like guys are sitting here laughing their ass off and I'm laughing too because I'm like this is awesome you know when you get pranked as a rookie you're made the guys like you you or you hope they like you and stuff. So they're pranking you, and I'm crying laughing. Guys are like sitting here watching me get dressed, and we're all dying in the locker room in Ottawa. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like I'm thinking about who is it.

Like who was it? Like what's going on? So I finally figured out like months later that it must, it had to have been flour. Someone kind of slipped, let it slip. Not going to say who, but so it was flour. So then the second time was right before the second year, we take this like team excursion and we all stay in these like lodge places and stuff. And I go back to my room and it was a few of the vets,

but all the rookies or all the young guys because we didn't have any rookies the second year i was like a rookie for two and a half years here like two years two full years here pretty much and they flipped all of our rooms like trashed them completely and i was like oh my god this is horrible and we're all hammered so i just put my bed back into place and i go to brush my teeth and i'm go to i'm brushing my teeth and i'm just sitting there i'm like like what is going on and it was like cinnamon or fire it was so it's fireball he doused it in fireball i thought it was like hot sauce or something and my tongue is just burning while i'm brushing my teeth with

the toothpaste it's burning and i'm like running around like trying to find like milk or something like this and then the last one was on the father's trip my dad and shea theodore's dad ended up uh like being kind of like the butt of the joke like the young dads or whatever and flower went in andpeed their entire room. Took their mattresses and put them in, like, teepees and the blankets. The fathers? What? To the fathers? To the dad.

My dad. He shoe-checked my dad. He shoe-checked Big Dan Whitney. He's the best, though. I mean, you can't. Yeah, he's the fucking John Gerard from Ricky Bobby. It's awesome. He looks identical to him. He's the fucking John Gerrard from Ricky Bobby. It's awesome. He looks identical to him.

He's awesome. This has been awesome. As Witt said, get a current player on who's as open as you. We've kind of been through it all as far as the skating stuff, the Vegas situation and how you got there. We can't thank you for being as open as you have. You're welcome back anytime, especially during the next season, and hopefully those crazy fans in Vegas with ladies with their tits on the glass

are back in the building. We'll be out there, Biz. When you can go party again and fans are back, we're going to a game and doing a scam. Oh, you guys got to come to my restaurant. You got a restaurant? Yeah, yeah, man. We talked about it.

Actually, right before the pandemic, we talked on the phone. Then the shit hit the fan and we never got out there. Yeah. There we go. Sandbagger, have you seen our sandbaggers? You mentioned you're a golfer. I like golfing. I'm probably 8, 9.

Okay, Biz is like an 18. I'm like a 25. We're good. You guys want to go off with a good golf or golf? I've never turned down a free meal looking forward to the restaurant. Mark Stone, Zach Whitecloud. Mark Stone and Whitecloud are sticks? I think Pacioretty's pretty good too, isn't he?

No, but he works his ass off at it. He's getting a lot better, but he was struggling for a bit. He was shooting like high 80s. That cologne that just won the cup, cologne's a stick. All right, hey, this is awesome, man. I appreciate this. We all do. And look forward to chatting again with you soon, man.

All right, thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. Thank you, man. Enjoy your break, brother. You earned it. See you. I want to send a big thanks to Alex for coming on for a very fun interview. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.

Certainly very forthcoming for one of the youngest stars in the league. Great kid, too. Really enjoy watching him play. All right, moving right along. Did you know that every 26 seconds there's a break-in in this country? Well, with SimpliSafe Home Security, you can protect your whole home around the clock. It's serious, lasting protection, and all it takes is a simple 30-minute setup. You'll even get a free security camera when you protect your home today. More on that in a second.

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plus a 60-day risk-free trial with any new system order. There's nothing to lose. So go to simply safe.com slash chicklets. One more time. That's simply safe.com slash chicklets. All right. Now we're going to send it over to the legendary Derek Sanderson.

Well, we're extremely pleased to welcome this legend of the game back to the show. And he was kind enough to trek all the way up from Cape Cod to join us. I like that. He won the 1968 Call the Trophy for Rookie of the Year before winning two Stanley Cups with the Big Bad Bruins. He famously assisted on Barbier's Cup winning goal in overtime of the 1970 Stanley Cup Final. Thanks so much for coming back on again with us. Derek Sanderson.

Thank you. Thank you. I guess I'm glad I passed the puck. If I didn't pass the puck, nobody would know who I am. A little give and go. Imagine you tried some terrible, like, stuff wraparound, and then they go down the other end and score. Yeah, I tried.

I missed the net twice. Paul missed the net. I did. Well, we'll get you in the next commercial. They got one right now of me missing the net. Well, we'll get you in the next commercial. They got one right now. Me missing the net. Do they? I did.

Hey, yeah. I was kind of like you off the ice a little bit. We know you got into all these little side projects. Led you to get a few more at-bats, as you like to call it. I know that was one of the terms our fans fell in love with after we had you on. But we covered a lot of the fun stuff and the awesome stories. There's a part of your life we didn't discuss.

Of course, being through what you've been through, I would imagine you're okay being open about it. Oh, yeah. I never understood Alcoholics Anonymous. You're not anonymous. You tell me, I know. I don't drink. I can't.

You've got to come clean and let your friends know that's it for me it's over and and uh help me get off this stuff and not by encouraging it or dragging me into yeah so you can look at it like you know yeah why be anonymous have everyone that could possibly help you know to be able to help you yeah i don't mind to fight you know a.a i mean that's i was buying i went in to uh my last detox and uh i mean you're signing autographs and stuff i don't you know so you don't but not no how did it get to that point because i mean everyone's aware that you had fun during your playing career you only had four bad years. When I was rookie, when I was a junior, I did not drink. I remember I drank four different

nights at the five years of junior. And three of them were New Year's Eve. Yeah, I never ever drank. My dad used to tell me, if you drink, you're not going to make it. I said, okay. I was just scared to hell, out of me until I figured out, I didn't know what he was talking about because he was drunk.

Or you got to the league and everyone's drunk. What the hell is that? Yeah, until you get into the game. And you got to know what the choice is, right? When you're young and you're coming up. And albeit I had a half-assed reputation coming out of junior, you're nervous. I don't care who you are. You're going to be nervous with the guys.

You're supposed to be this as your next step, but it's not often done that way. You're kind of hanging around. One night, when the players ask you, when the veterans ask you to come with them, you're going. You're accepted.

They know, your teammates know, you're going. You're going. You're accepted. They know, your teammates know you're going to make it before you do. Everybody around you knows you got it or you don't. So Jerry Cheever's got up and he went to the bar and he said, Derek, what are you drinking? I said, I don't drink.

What? Come on, you got to drink. I said, no, I don't drink. And he said, oh boy, pressure's going to get you. And I'm sitting there, you know,

and I'm going, well, and Esposito's on the other side of the table. He said, listen, if you don't drink, don't start. There's nothing to prove here.

And you're not, you bring your home pressure. Yeah. Wow. They've taught you how to play in junior. Just come up and do the same thing with a little bit more energy and dedication so those are the wise words now i got two one drink great guy jerry and one don't drink so i've got that choice in my head everybody's got it and i decided i was going to learn how to drink and it took a long time i didn't like it

uh you take a look at beer you said said, what is beer? It's probably the most underrated drug in the world. And if you take it, it's not so tight. And you say to yourself, well, this is good. I hated the feeling. I mean, I loved the taste. I loved the feeling. That's all I drank for. My wife, Nancy, she would go to a place and have a beer on a wine she'll have a glass of wine and then not mine why what would you do that for we're here to drink let's drink and you know close the place have to have 12 15

it isn't the way you want to do it i so but that's the way i was drinking that's the way i would drink It isn't the way you want to do it. But that's the way I was drinking. That's the way I would drink. Is it hard for you? Did you see all the guys? I'm not going to say all, but I'm guessing most of the guys were drinking. Oh, yeah.

So that's part of it. So when Cheever says pressure, it's like, hey, we're all drinking. You're going to be one of the boys or not? Yeah. Right? That was a class thing. Do I want to follow along? Yeah, you do.

What did I have? I had no defense mechanism for yes or no. I don't drink. I wouldn't have been me anyway. Did it make it like things like less socially awkward for you at all? Did you need it to have more? Until you come to the end of the day and you finally – this one girl I had an argument with her to bar a bit iffy but you know she said well at least in the morning i'll i can get up you got a drink and i said well so i wanted to quit see if i could quit

and that's the worst day of your life you know you can't quit and it's i gotta learn how to control this can't control you can't quit. I got to learn how to control this. Can't control. You can't control people, places, or things. You give up, and you want to get sober and get humble, you're fine. But if you want to continue to do a little coke, just a little bit, they don't make drugs so that you don't like them. Yeah. You say, hey, give me a line or whatever.

Give me a beer. Oh, wow, that tastes beautiful. I'm going to quit. I'll never drink again. I offered you chocolate, and you'd never had it before, and you'd say, oh, well, yeah, it's nice. I like that. I'll drink it.

You're going to take another piece of chocolate. It's like you're saying go swimming. You dive in the water. Oh, it's great. I'll never do that again. So you like the stuff they don't make it so you don't like it and then you pick it up and then you discover i'm going to learn how to so analyst in your in your playing career you know because you're you're you're not

drinking when you get to the nhl at least in junior when when when was it really affecting you on the ice like what what year in your career were you like, oh, this is an issue for me playing now too, because I'm not getting the job done necessarily like I was on the ice. I never went goofy until I was well into Daisy Buchanan. I was about 74. I had jumped and took the money. Now, the character flaws for me were already in place.

Like when you asked earlier, you know, there's signs. There are. I'll give you, I'll show you the signs. It's a chart, an AA, and there's steps, and they come all the way up to the top, and then, you know, you're drunk. Boom. And then you're drunk. You know, that'll show you anxiety, pressure,

girls, just a lot of guys, well, how do we know nobody likes us unless somebody tells you? Right? You don't know if a girl's going to like you until she tells you. And she knows what's going to happen. She knows before you do.

I always resent. Somehow they all love me. And yet the truth. They know. When do they know like when you're sitting across the table at dinner and they go, no, I like that. I think do they know? Like when you're sitting across the table at dinner and they go, no, I like that. I think he's pretty nice.

And you're on pain and putting our best foot forward. And which way did you want? No. You had to give it that. That's what they call wheeling and dealing. Wheeling and dealing. Is that the play they play in the game? Yeah.

So, I mean, alcohol ended up leading to drugs? Oh, yeah. And at what point did that happen in your career? Everybody was on coke in the 70s. R.A. told us that 50 times and just talking about it. You go into any strange bar, and not at the bartender, he'll tell you something you can buy an eight ball from. So it was everywhere.

It was in Hollywood. It was in sports. But no one had ever been caught in hockey. Then it came to a young player in New York got caught but uh hockey was pretty good but hockey still drink way too much yeah well I think things have changed a little bit but like so did it get worse as your career ended because I know you ended up transitioning to become color guy with the Boston Bruins, right? Yes, and I was lucky.

We could do that. I mean, there are all the reasons I could give you. If you wanted them, I can. But when you look at transitioning from hockey, what were they going to do? To panic. I have a dear friend of mine, Spike Boda, who was a golf pro

at Andover Country Club. And my dad, I was at home in Niagara Falls, and my dad went down the plans, down the general orders, to get me an application. So I get the application, and he shows it to me. I said, what's that?

Well, menial task. You do start on the ground floor, GM. You can bill a pension. I said, Hey, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Whoa. I'm not ready to put the slide down, but guess what? I'm not going out for, I will go back to Boston. The only way I'm going to make it is on my feet, get on my feet to Boston. Picked up the number called Speck Boda. Amazing. I remembered it and he picked me up at the airport and I,

my first job was assistant golf pro. I made no money. He couldn't because he had two sons there, and he couldn't. So I wasn't going to get paid. But I was broke, and I needed food and lodging. So I could sleep over at the pro shop in a cot for a couple of years. And beginning women. I started to teach beginning women because nobody had the patience for it. I can. And I'm beginning women. I started to teach beginning women

because nobody had the patience for it. Or me, I can't, I'm full. I said, I will, Tom, I will. And you can't charge them. It's a guess. That's whatever they wanted to tip you. Yeah. But then there's some cash

and you get to play with the cash on Monday. And of course it flows. So it was good. So you're finishing up, you finish up the career and it's great to to have a guy like that but mentally was it was it kind of crushing that you didn't have any money that you were broke like were you like jesus christ what the hell did i do were you i mean you were highest paid

athlete well i had yeah uh when you get sober go look back and say oh jeez yeah can't believe i blew that and then i said to myself well you weren't happy when you weren't drinking. Now you're not happy not drinking. So what do you got to do? And it's getting your life together. What are your priorities? He says, guys, we really have no purpose until things go on later in life. And if some woman you fall for, she wants children, you do that.

And pretty well, we do what they tell us after 40. Back then, dark. Was that agreed? I mean, it's, yeah. About 37, and I agree. I think you could kind of, they let you kind of feel like you're in control for the better part of maybe eight months. Then you've kind of had it.

Yeah, I went from chasing a bunch of them to, to bagging mine to stay. Yeah. So it's, it's amazing how that works. My Nancy walked right into my office and I was when I met her and she was with cable vision. I was kind of part of the city hall. She walked in the door and it was dead. You know, I had nothing going. I said, how am I ever going to treat this girl properly and i just was dead i just and it took me a while but uh you know i was all i was interested in what was the what was the hardest aspect the fact of getting over that at one point you were essentially at the at the top

of the world and then now like you're you know everything that you've done over the course of your career there's like basically nothing to show for it and on top of this like you know you're you're also dealing with your own personal issues to the extent that you were everybody has to sooner or later if you're drinking or doing something there's no there's no controlling it there's only four kinds of drugs right uh you know you're bingers guys get on and go for two weeks and then there's your uh pick your time every day steady done a lot do only get drunk at the weekend uh and then it's we're gonna drink steady all the time and then there's a guy that's around three percent he's point three point eight two eight all the time yeah yeah and they learn how to function

like that and they learn how to and no one it when you get that drunk and that much of an alcoholic. You don't take a raise. You won't take additional. You don't want your little world to bubble to break. Yeah. And that's when things happen. So that first year where you're the assistant pro, and what ends up becoming the time when you're brought into work?

It was Fred Cusack, right? As the color guy for the Bruins? Yes. How many years like after the retirement was that what i would do what i did is and then i after two years of andover i i and uh i went to the city a friend of mine uh took me in and we kind of got settled down in revere and we ended up going uh to city hall and i got a job at City Hall. I'm walking around Daisy Buchanan's. I come out of Daisy Buchanan's, and Joey Cimino, dear friend,

he had kept my rings for me, so I had them. Good. Thanks, Joey. And I see Senator Timothy walking along the other side of the street. Yeah, yeah, and there he was. I said, hey, Derek, I knew him. He just first got elected. He was a great stand-up guy. He's solid.

He says, what are you doing? I said, nothing. And he said, hey, stay in touch. He gave me a card. And he set up a meeting with Mayor Flynn. And, you know, I tell you what, Ray, he was one of the best of guys. He was a marionaut, but I tell you, a great guy.

And I went in to see him. And there was a federal report that had come out that Massachusetts was the worst school in the Union for alcohol and drugs. And he wouldn't accept it. Can't be. And he said,

would you go into the schools for now, this is maybe just early February. And then at the end of the year, as many schools, you could just write a report on how bad it is. Okay. And that's, those are four clean years. I wasn't doing anything. And it's just every day, no drinking. Get on your knees. You don't have to pray to your God.

I'm comfortable with God and Christ, but a lot of people aren't. A higher power is a higher power. That is all AA says. It's to give yourself to a higher power. That higher power might even be inside of you. Nobody else. But once I get comfortable

with it, get on your knees, thank you. Help me get through the day. Boom. And you got your two spaces where you feel good about it and growing up. And I said, now my one fear, I quit school because my French teacher told me that I was going to speak to all the class, the whole school in the auditorium. You said no. I had 12 days before I had to do it.

I'm going to prepare horrified. And do it in French. Oh my God. So I figured, okay, how am I going to do this? And I said to myself, well, my dad really wants me to play hockey. I said, hey,

dad, you know those French players, they come in the morning, they don't go to school. They get another three hours of practice. Why are you getting somebody that's so good? Yeah? You think so? Yeah. It took me 11 days.

He talked to me and said, okay, you can quit school. You had one day before the presentation. Yeah, and I went into school anyway. I went in anyway. You mentioned your Stanley Cup rings and the fact that you had to give them to your friend in order to hold them. No, he took them.

He didn't trust the fact that you were not. Yeah, he said, after a while, he was going to let me in. I was causing fights, acting in the ass. You think if you would have had possession of your Stanley Cup rings, you would have sold them? Or somebody would have stole them, yeah. I would have sold them or somebody would have stole them.

Are those your most prized possessions right now? That's all, yeah. My son's got one of them. And, you know, you sell your stuff. And, you know, the guy in Montreal now is Mark Juteau, and he's good. He's a solid 80 months, let's see whatever I got. And I don't know what was hanging around the house. My cottage that my

dad bought, it was beautiful. But my mother, he died, and then it got a little late in life, and she was tired of paying the taxes, and she just let it go. And the guy across the lake scooped it up, took all the memory, took everything. But it was, yeah, I would have had a lot more stuff if I did that.

When you were having these struggles, Derek, did the league have like an EAP equivalent back then, an employee assistance program for people unfamiliar? No. They didn't have anything at all like that? Hockey and everybody in sport looked at it as, oh, my God, he's going to be a born-again Christian. And how can you be tough and be a born-again Christian? You go smacking people around and, you know, do unto others, right? And management doesn't like that.

And they were always hesitant of it, of the change. But, you know, when you look at it, what they do for you, they have no understanding. The Employees Assistance Program, I was in on City of Boston for two years. I have to talk to the kids in schools. They hired me. So I was there from 82, 3, 4. And that was kind of, you get a sense of what the kids are like.

And after a while, they taught me more than anything. And it was unbelievable. And it's nobody ever was disrespectful. All the times I was there. They may be to their own element there, but they're always really nice. And it showed me kind of, we're all people, right? And we can't get along. Well, it's kind of a good thing to hear because people now say they don't like hockey culture. Well, look how far we've come because now the league has a very good program for guys who are struggling through school,

especially post-career, looking for jobs, struggling with alcohol. So I think that they've made great steps, you know, in changing things that certainly guys like in your era didn't get help with. None. There was – I don't think i was ever told i maybe bobby was the first guy oh you're drinking too much well you bet one of those but it was a comment on it not a you're gonna quit none of that because we all drank and off that team that's still alive he's got you've got maybe only two still drinking.

Yeah. What was your – how did you like doing color for the Bruins? Loved it. Loved it. Fred Cusick was the greatest guy on the planet to work with. God, he was a good man. Classy guy. I have to hit my hip operations, get on the airplane in L.A., right?

And it's a mile and a half. So your baggage, right? And, you know, I got to take it off the plane. Fred didn't like it. I don't put no baggage. But every once in a while, we'd get caught with a longer trip. He carried it. He was 6'2", a strong man, 84 years old.

He carried my baggage. Thanks, Fred. And I'd go 100 yards and sit down and watch him come by. You know what I'm talking about? He was going to drop you down the airport. But he did a lot. We played golf every time we were on the road, every time we could. What years was that?

86 to 96. Ten solid years. Ten good years with Fred. He was great. I remember my first game was against St. Louis in the Garden. Now, on that Monday, I think they fired Butch Goring. On the Tuesday, they hired Terry O'Reilly. He was the third man in the booth that they've been advertising all year, right?

It'll be different. So I need a third guy in the booth. And there was maybe 12 guys, 13 guys came for the job seven of them brought an agent they didn't get a look-see like four yeah and i went in and they said and this is going well yeah what would you do what do you think you're my looking at it how would i handle it i said well hockey's the game played with a bouncing puck and it's as long as they're working hard i'm not going to jump on anybody. And I hate these guys that come and go and, you know,

rip the guy because they played. That's easy to do. It's easy. Like in all other sports, what do they do? They give the offense the ball. Football, basketball, they can give you the ball after the jump. They give it to a side. Hockey, you've got to take it away from the guy.

You see these guys with books and, Oh, that's a lovely, you know, artful. But if he doesn't want to face off to the right guy at the right dance, the whole thing falls apart. And they didn't, and you know, I, all it was, was feel. I said, if they just work hard and, and, and, and, you know, stand up for themselves and their teammates, I'm not going to rip them. Was that a criticism

that you got that you were being... No, they wanted... Television wanted me to be very critical. Oh, so they wanted the drama aspect. Yeah, and I said, I can't understand that. Why would you do that? 99.9% of my audience is Bruins fans.

What can I tell them? You're watching a bad product. No, you can't do that. And you're good to the guys. It's fine. And you got to live with them every day. You just travel well. Yeah, you don't want to shit on them too much.

You got a little too far with that one. So you think ultimately your demise in that role was the fact that you weren't being critical enough? No. The demise came when I did a – we got a new director-producer. Kenny London was the guy. And we kind of fought the first year or two, but he was my boss. Right? And I said, okay, this is it, final.

How about I – you teach me good good TV and I'll teach you good hockey and what to look for. He was so good after about three or four years, he knew what I was talking about and he'd splice it, jam it, drop it down. You want it? Yeah. And he'd go. And he was really, really creative.

You learn from each other. Oh, yeah. And he told me, Derek, give me a minute. I'm going to tell you, give me a minute. And I'd sit there and 20 seconds a minute minute does she know i got another 40 seconds to go and fred cusick bang 59 seconds good night every time yeah every time and i don't know how he did it but he was such a new i came in and like i, the first game was, and I've kind of never really had a, you wouldn't think I was shy, huh? And I quit school because of public speaking. I ended up doing it for getting me off the feet. And I went with Fred and he says, listen, don't think you have to say anything.

Just make sure you don't talk when they drop the puck. And they'll go, we're going to feel for it. Don't talk when they drop the puck. And they'll go, we're going to feel for it. And I said, okay. So I, you know, in the first five minutes, six minutes, Bruins are down three zip. But I said to him, and I've thought this all my life,

that's the most tentative lead in sports. Because you get a fluke, power play, and a pretty goal. You're all tied up. And you always get a fluke, and you come back. They only try to hold you. They're trying to contain you because they quit skating a pretty goal. You're all tied up. And you always get a fluke and you come back. They only try to hold you. They're trying to contain you because they quit skating a little bit. Turn it around, yeah. 3-0 lead. We call it the worst league in hockey. 3-0.

Especially early. I look at it this way. The Bruins know they're down 3-0, but St. Louis doesn't know they're up 3-0. They haven't done anything yet. They missed the net kick off bodies so they bought they shot it off body starting to clear puck we're down three zip so i said ah it's not that bad at the end of the first period we're trying and it's just and i and i never shut up after that that's if i had hearing aids right if i couldn't hear as soon as i was talking too much, drink, shut me right off. That's unbelievable.

Have you been watching pretty much every game since it started? Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what, there's a lot of people talking about it. I hate to interrupt you. I never really got the answer as to why you stopped doing it. You said the new producer came in. The new producer. I'm guessing he got ready.

Oh, so eventually it just fizzled out. Yeah. And it wasn't a matter of fizzling out. It's the new guy came in and wanted to put his stake around the land. It's like a new GM making a trade. Yeah. So you trade my guys. Well, we had a summer meeting like we always did.

And they told Fred and I, you guys got to start giving more information about your opponent through center ice. Duh. Why? And they said, well, that's where ESPN, you know,

when I played in my day, there was one camera. It panned. And what it really couldn't do is make it any faster out of your own end, right, like getting over the red line. And you had to come out together. But not too often that happens. So they were, this guy wanted no name in the puck. Who's got the puck?

And Fred Cusick used to get letters from people that were blind and how appreciative they were of the way he colored the game. Wow. Because the way they were handling the puck, they knew where it was. You know, and that's a very big conflict again. So this kid didn't want it. Greg Hoff, he was only there a year. And they got on Fred for jumping for naming players,

and he didn't want that. I want to know, you know, Ryan Whitney, where do these players finally go? Where do you go? I tell you every time. Why? I'm talking about the game. Yeah. I see. Now you hear about where a guy played junior in this and you're like, I don't care. I don't care. There's an odd neat factor that

guys, yeah, yeah, but not very often. It probably frustrates them that they can't understand that you could just show up and call it how you see it because like they don't understand that you've put your entire life and you guys you guys it's almost like they're like well they have a i don't want to say and you're like what do you mean yeah it would be like uh it would be like you know if you're a person who's like in the numbers you would you would probably like the way baseball's great for that yeah you'd probably like somebody somebody who understands analytics and explain to you how

he's going to solve the problem as opposed to like, well, I'm just going to watch and do it. Right. And what's amazing to me is people with the goalie is like this, right? And then Buck goes in here, trust me, it hits them. And I, you know, it's coming in the now over here, over there. So had to hit something coming in, slow it down, boom, let people see the tip. Off the skate, in the air, off the knee, off the foot.

Put it down over here. Goalies don't miss shots over here. They miss them over there. People don't really grasp, but I've seen a lot of them. Even on the guys today in the National Eye Clinic. They cover it well, but they still tell me what I already saw. Is it true?

I know it was an urban legend. Did Fred really swear during a telecast like it was supposedly, shot, score, fuck, go, hit the post. I don't know if it was actually happening. One time or all the time? Just one time. Yeah. I was

cut caught. Kenny Alonzo used to do it to me when we were fighting. He said, okay, I'll leave that on. And all across Canada, they didn't get the commercial. They didn't boss us. But Cable picked it up across Canada. And one time, I'll never forget, it was

Dimitri Kristich. And I said, but we're off the air, go over to commercial. I get Gettle, son of a bitch. I get guffawed. Oh, no. Now you would be hot, Mike. Kerry Frazier?

Oh, you later. I just dropped Jim. I insulted him. And only the people in Canada used to wait for the commercials. Because what did they really think? The only one the commercials. Because what did they really think? The only one they ever heard, what did they really think? Unreal. You were going to ask him something, Mario, when I cut you off before.

No, that's all right. How good do you think the NHL has been doing with these two bubbles? I mean, obviously, it's unprecedented. Yeah. And, you know, some of it's very, very difficult to judge. What we can say, what we like or don't like, I could be controlled by that or not. But I think we're all learning from each other as we go along. I mean, my wife has killed me for not wearing a mask.

We're all far enough apart, which should be fine. But those are the things that people worry about. And we've never had anything else. Now, trying to put fans in that are waving when a guy hits a home run, it's a bit much if it's plastic. But in the National Hockey League, I think it's done as well with it as anyone. Watching the Bruins and, you know, two of the last three years end at the hands of the Lightning, what did you think about, you know, first off, Tuca leaves, the team didn't look great.

What was your whole thought on how their season ended? It's tough. They were playing. There's no left winger better in marshall and there's probably uh not many as good both ends of the building as uh bergeron and i think this is david creature i said david creature plays his best hockey awesome start that playoff thing started in in the ball he was carried it for a while, right? And so they had the talent. The defense got a little, you know, suspect after a while. Terry, what players have jumped out at you in the bubble that you maybe didn't recognize before?

Players are jumping out of the bubble? When you're talking about that reverse hit, you must have seen McKinnon's. Yes. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. I mean, I think the league's pretty well got it down, no? I mean, the players are responding well. If you don't like it, you're not going to work that hard.

But we used to send us away from town, wives, and children in the playoffs. Oh, you're talking about distractions? Yeah, they used to put us out in, you know, camping almost. Devils did that. And that always wins. Do you think this is probably going to be whoever wins maybe the toughest Stanley Cup to win just given the circumstance?

Yeah, when you look at it, yeah. There's no place to, you're there what you can do. Once you learn to put her down, go to sleep, eat with the guys, boom, read, do whatever you have to do to replenish that energy, but you would have it with the kids. And those are the distractions that help you because then you get to play with the kids and hang around dad's home. So it's okay.

And so then they started putting you back home and then, you know, a lot of guys have bad days and go and play bad. It happens. It's a tough game. no, I was really impressed with this playoff and how they're handling it. I mean, I think the idea

I had I always had a lie seven. And then I went to Detroit in an exhibition game and I looked at all the big sticks and all this real short one. And I looked at it

and it was Gordie Howes. It was a lie nine. And I got Frosty Forrestall, our trainer. I said, why don't you find out why you still got a high lie? And he said, well, if anybody wants that puck, I'm pretty close to it.

I said, you're going to hurt you. And now the first game I played against Howell was Insanity. It was an exhibition game. And I was in the old school. I played three games in the old six-team league.

They could all play. And, wow, I remember when you scored, what, two goals in the first game? I can knock those twice. I'm in the first four shifts. Right? And an exhibition game I got with Howe, and my dad said, there's a guy that played. His name was Britt Selby.

And he played with Toronto. Right? And Britt was, they didn't know whether they could make him rookie of the year because he's the only rookie in the league. Which is pretty difficult because they didn't have DeRolfo. You had a

job in the National Hockey League that was assured for life. And that's what brought people up from the minors when they were 26, 27. Anyway, Bert Selby's up there. And he's getting pounded, pounded. Every year you get to watch a hockey night in Canada

with the six teams, you see a lot of guys, a lot of the same stuff. And I was allowed to stay up to watch it. Boom, boom. And I said, wow. And my dad said, I mean, you ever get a chance, you tell that Gordie Howe, son. And I ain't taking nothing off him. So I said, all right.

And exhibition game in London, Ontario. I go, my dad's there. And opening face out to Vecchio, Lindsay, and Al. Oh, gee. So John Ashley was the referee. And I look over there. I double take him. Ashley said, hold on.

That's just my second. I walk over to how I said, hey, don't fool me. I'm going to hurt you in so many terms. It was a little bit low. You said that to him? Oh, yeah. I'll hurt you. So you were just, you're a crazy person.

He's on his own. Pardon? Yeah. And you are, and you are. So anyway, he's going to say a word. They drop the puck at center ice, and I'm three seconds. How long does it take to come from the wing? And I'm bling, and I'm on

the ice, and I'm, Johnny McKenzie's pulling me out the ice and I get the smell and stuff. What happened? Johnny McKenzie, number nine. Like you had any doubt. I went back and said to him, I said, maybe, old man, you didn't hear me.

And he just looked at me like, this kid's certifiable. Yeah. And he, he reminded me of the story is that when you get cut he used to take the turn the stick over and pull it back along your face

third game with him he gives me 18 right up the middle and Johnny McKenzie's on number nine but did you do anything to him no I know so I finally we had a night and I was really getting to the end of it.

We played 70 games and that was never a boss and it was Hal Sanderson. The Detroit press wouldn't let it go and then we kind of

got a couple of games with nothing happening. Be quiet. And I go back to, hey, Sanderson, there he is. Oh, Jesus.

And so I go in there and I got a, don't say anything. Shoo. And then I go in there and I got a don't say anything. And then we go in the box. He trips me. Coming out the ice, you know, he trips you on the fresh ice start of the second. And he's coming to the bench and I'm going into

the forecheck. He drops his leg, trips me. And you can't stop because you're like a top on fresh ice. Oh, yeah. And I got up back in time and speared him in the back, right? Come on. Let's finish it. And it left you also as a trainer. And he pushed him.

And in the old days, 18 inches, the height of that bottle, was the boards from the ice. So he's way up in the air. And I said, John D'Amico. I said, John, you're the biggest guy in the world, John D'Amico. I said, John, you're the biggest guy in the world, John D'Amico. I said, John, we're going to fight with Hollis. You grab him and I won't punch him over his shoulder. So Hollis got thrown and lefty Wilson grabbed him, half part turned around and pushed him off that

height. And you got to step down. The first thing you think of is my balance. I don't want to fall. And I just threw a clean shot at him. Boink. And he just looked at me and John D'Amico grabbed him and I said, all right. And at the end of it all, he retired. And Mel Francis, the cat, he invited

me to the Hartford Whalers training camp. And he said, I got somebody picking you up. And it's good. Come on. Ah, God. Hi, Gordy, how you doing? Good, good.

A little awkward? He said, of all the people said things, you maybe I used to say some real off the wall weird stuff. He said, I kind of had, maybe you would do it. He thought you were the craziest that he dealt with. Well, to see him and for you just to say, I'll get you, he's like, who is this guy?

No, I went to work as a kid. I only did it because my dad was there. My dad wasn't there. I think we talked about that the first time you came over, how, like, you – I don't know if it was Esposito that you mentioned, but you'd never even like seen some of these guys, let alone have conversations. And if you'd be in the room with one of them from a different organization,

you guys would leave. It was like. That's why people are so unfriendly in trades. Don't want to get traded because you're getting traded. You know, you're going to deal with the guys that you were dealing with on the ice a lot of the trades are uncomfortable and i was trading from buy especially if personal stuff's being said on the ice oh yeah as insults where it's like calling the other guy's old lady a speed bag and then you're fucking oh yeah you're beside him and stalls the next fucking week yeah that's you don't want that to happen like So the shit being set on the ice was probably way gnarlier back then, too.

Yeah, and what I used to say is, you know, I should have said that. Like, somebody else said something. You're quicker than me. I didn't really. Well, Donny Ory is one of those guys. Nyland was, too. You know what to say, what to say, always had a comeback. You got to win the early part of the fight.

You got to win with the comeback. Yep. And they used to, so I used to call my dad after games and I'd say, I just said this, no, you didn't. You never thought of that. You never thought of it that fast. He called you right out. He called you right out.

Pulled me right out. That's unreal. That's great great so you were one of those guys you kept going back to the same lines no no never never never twice simply no okay well just a little cray i mean i you know we had guys in junior and if just if people find you're a little bit crazy they just didn't come near you i got a lot of stick chucking. Not a lot of body slams. And I was by any... What? 6'2", 195.

I was 25 years old. More than a little crazy, too. Yeah, a little goofy. I didn't know... My buddy back home, Tommy Conjure, he says, oh, you were crazy. He used to make bets on how many fights you'd get. I don't remember that many fights in junior. He said, you fought all

the time. You're kidding me. We had a guy, Butch Bukar. We were in junior together. Butch says, okay, sit beside me. I said, I know the bench. Pick a number.

Ten. You'll get him. He combined the board. He jumped up on a bench and dove. I'm never going to make it. He said, but he did. He was tough kid. Where's number 10? Is he still standing? This kid is certifiable. We thank you so much for coming on again. So is Bobby Orr still just a stick at golf?

How's his game? He's really playing. And I'll tell you what, he had a shoulder done and a knee done. And he's like 77, 75. Wow. He could two-putt Rhode Island. Right? It's like, and you think, okay, he'll miss that i he's like jordan jordan spieth yeah

when he first when he's making everything bobby just makes everything and it's amazing if you rib him but he ain't gonna make it he makes seven out of ten and it looks you right in the eye what do you think just watch him quietly pick up the ball it turns away from you um last thing i'm gonna ask you we have a lot of young listeners and, and we know we talked about it earlier in the interview and you, you've been through some difficult times, substance abuse. Like what would be your advice? Like what was the first step you needed to take in order to turn things

around and figure things out? Get humble. Yeah. You'll humble yourself. And I, which is very confusing to me because Celteltics pride now let's stop pride you know uh you know follows you know it takes you down a pretty dirty road sometimes so no just get humble uh and let go and let your god that's it and it's you're not going to be any

easier than that you only have to live 10, 12, 15 hours. Be productive. Get a job. Take anything for a job. Stay occupied. And build it slowly, day at a time back. And it's not easy and that's why the anonymous part rattles me because I need my friends to know that I'm trying to quit.

And you don't need people jamming or teasing you or testing you either because it's usually why we quit. And when you get sober, you find they're the nicest people in the world when you get sober. And it's kind of hard for people to understand that. And there's a whole set of rules. But the big part to me is I had a guy of mine. I had 13 detoxes.

So I didn 13 detoxes. So I didn't get overnight. Just edge into it and keep trying, keep trying. And this guy I've been there and he said to me, sick and tired. Being sick and tired, yeah. Because I knew that I was quick.

I used to have the delirium tremors, the colodetes, and I'd have bad dreams. And, you know, where did the love of God go when he turned seconds to hours? And you think you're in this dream for like three days, and you look at the clock, it's two and a half minutes. Oh, geez. And that keeps going, and you've got to adjust. Jeez. And that keeps going. And you got to just mind your people around you. Just try to be good. And, and, but it's hard for if you're shy or if you're a braggart and it's your bluff.

I was acting as afraid of girls and because who can say the ones that hurt you are only the ones you give them the power to hurt you. And that's what you shouldn't do. Keep your power to yourself. Don't be giving it out to other people that can hurt you and teach you and make you do something stupid. So when you get started, there's only three types of drinkers in the world. Social, problem, and alcoholic. All alcohol is consumed by those three. Now what's a social drinker?

Social drinkers like my wife have a beer, glass of wine, and then have a coffee. Why would you do that? Why would you do that? And I would go in and the guy should have a beer. Okay. Six o'clock. Okay. Two in the morning.

Ah, shit, I'm never going to do this again. This is the third time I do it. And then you do it again so I was the type that went in and started drinking closed the place so that is not what you want to do alcohol is a powerful drug the second character in this little parade

is the problem drunker so that problem drinker that much is probably not social. That much is going to be problem. And then that much on top is going to be alcohol.

Social is here and it stops. Social drinkers don't get drunk. Social drinkers, you know, quit when they get numb and they start to feel it. They have two or three drinks yeah oh that's it i'm too far down the road and i don't why did you do that i don't do it for the taste so you when you look into it like that and then you look at these problem drinkers

now it starts from getting drunk and getting a dui don't never have one again and you keep going off the ladder until you're into the alcoholic. And the alcoholic, the difference between the social and the problem, problem drinker could quit. Alcoholic cannot. Alcoholic, he can drive drunk sometimes. He can hold a job. Amazing how you learn to live at 0.1.

You can live at 0.5, 0.8 and now you can do all that. But those are the three types of drinkers. You just don't want to do it. And alcohol is, I use alcohol as an expression with kids because they can understand it. And you take the cold beer, the first cold beer you got, you drink it, man. You like it so much, drink it warm. No, it's got to be freezing cold. And then the second one goes down.

Beer one goes to the liver, and that's where the liver has to, right? It breaks it down, and that's where you get the buzz. And then you got beer two. The liver works a beer per person per hour. Seven-ounce glass of wine, right? or a shot of whiskey all the same why you get a different headspace when you're when you're around uh blackberry brandy or you drink something up wine it's white wine it's supposed to red it's the it's a rosin in the banks that they in the in the barrels barrels that they treat them in. And fermentation, it's all different.

So as alcohol, I used to look at it as kind of a pharmacy. I'd go, okay, I like this, I'm not in that mood. You know, I did drink stupid stuff and trying to quit. And it's just a matter of at the end, you say to yourself,

I got to stop. Help me. Somebody comes and goes, and it's just a matter of at the end you say yourself i gotta stop help me how somebody comes you go you go and recognize it for thank god you've recognized it and you're telling somebody dear and close to you and that person will help you watch and you try and the second day long days fourth and fifth day and it's a week. 90 days. Everybody in this room, quit for 90 days. You will not believe your emotions at the end of 90 days. In AA, they call it the

pink cloud where you're really feeling super powerful. I haven't drank in 90 days. You want to have fun? Guess what? It's now the first year and it takes time. and you don't do it and I am without

glass of water where is it they have the body armor quick shout out to the sponsors and that is as far away that I am from being a drunk there you go that's probably

the biggest turtle is probably asking for help right yeah I used to sit the full bottle of Johnny Walker Black on the table

and watch the TV. You'd call me it? Yeah, I could be you. I could be you. I'd go to bed. Next day, boom, still there. Still there? Yeah.

I can beat you. Guess what? That bottle's got a lot more willpower than you do, and it won't move. And you have to. That's all. It's going to get you. Well, man, we appreciate you being so open and honest about all this. I know it was a little bit more serious than the last time you were on,

but we'll get you on again for some more fun hockey stories the next time. I tell you what, they are a great, great bunch. I don't think anyone has more fun hockey players. We all play a game that's really, really tough and almost impossible to do. Right? I was in a thing with Gordie Hall one night, and the guy asked him what's the toughest game to play.

Oh, he says hockey. They don't give me sneakers. Anybody can do things with their feet. They're not three inches off of frozen water, balanced by a sixteenth inch of steel. Yeah. Going 30 miles an hour. Put that on a t-shirt.

Well, thank you so much, Derek. This was a blast. Huge thanks to Derek for schlepping into the city back when we were staying in Charlestown a couple of months ago. He didn't have to do that, but a very nice of him to come in and talk to us idiots again. And always, always a pleasure to sit in the presence of a legend like him.

So thanks again to Derek Sanderson. Well, businesses have had to be very flexible this year, from working remotely to pivoting their business models for long-term survival and growth. I mean, we've seen restaurants adjust on the fly with outdoor dining and takeout. Well, if you're in charge of hiring for your business, these pivots have made your job even more challenging,

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I got a quick note we just wanted to pass along. We want to send our best wishes to Jack Dineen. He's a local boy up here in Boston. He's the son of an old college buddy of mine, and he suffered an eye injury while playing street hockey last week. And Jack, we're thinking of your buddy here and just want to let you know the whole Chicklets family is all pulling for you, buddy. So get well soon and hopefully bump into you soon, my friend.

And now we're going to send it over to Ryan Whitney for some closing remarks. Thank you very much, R.A. I appreciate that. And, you know, I just wanted to end the episode talking about, you know, another sad, sad moment in hockey. I think people understand it's been been so long now with us doing once a week, you know another sad a sad moment in hockey i think people understand it's been been so long now with us doing once a week you know it seemed like it just broke that travis roy had passed away um and for people who don't know i think everyone does by now but we did joey moss last week what an

amazing person he was and then travis roy another uh name in hockey especially in especially in new england uh but really everywhere. People know who Travis Roy was and know what he did. And if you didn't, I'd love to be able to just tell you a little bit about this person who turned out to be one of the toughest people I've ever met in my life and somebody that will never be forgotten. So Travis grew up in Maine. He was a really good hockey player.

He played up in high school at Maine. Then he went to Tabor. And from there, he went to BU. So he goes to BU as a freshman in the fall of 95. I'm 12 years old at the time. I love BU. You know, they're the best team around. They got all these guys who played in the NHL.

I used to go to the games. It was like my dream to go there. It was his dream to play D1. I'm sure it was his dream to play in the NHL as well, but he ends up at BU and he comes into a stacked team. This team was loaded. They'd actually won the national title the year before

and they're coming back this year. They got Jay Pandolfo, Chris Drury, Sean Bates, Mike Greer, Chris O'Sullivan, just a stacked team. And Travis Roy's a freshman. So the season starts, and they're raising their banner for the national title the year before when they beat Maine. And they're playing North Dakota at Walter Brown Arena.

The place is going nuts. They got another great-looking season ahead of them, and they get out to an early lead. And Travis Roy, freshman, how good is he that he's a freshman in the lineup? I think he's playing with Chris Drury and Mike Sylvia. I believe that could be incorrect, but either way, his first shift, freshman. I remember my first shift. Your mind's racing, so much adrenaline.

You're so fired up, and he made a good play. He chipped the puck in the zone. He went into forecheck, and he went to hit a defenseman, and you'll never know why or how, but broke his neck in the process and was paralyzed from the neck down, you know, immediately. 11 seconds into his first college shift, first college game, and this kid's life and his family's life has just changed forever.

It's such a horrible thing to even think about that you you think about what what his life ended up meaning and and it becomes even that much more special but when this happened I mean you can't imagine um how how heartbroken his teammates were and family and friends and just how how scared this kid must have been and his family and you know there's it's it's tough for me talking about this because I got to know Travis uh like everyone did at BU hockey you know he he stayed around he graduated from school and I I'm really excited to get into what he did with his life after this but he was always around and and everyone just respected him so much and I mean no matter what you,

especially other hockey players, I mean, everyone for sure, but playing at BU, you see his number, the only number retired before Jack Parker's was, and you just had so much like heartache for him. You didn't, you didn't even,

if you, even if you didn't know him, you know, it's just like everyone knew who Travis Roy was dealt the shittiest hand imaginable. And that night it's so hard to think about because I saw his dad do an interview where his dad mentioned that Travis said to him on the ice, like, Dad, I made it.

So you think about a kid who's living out his dream and 11 seconds into it, boom. a kid who's like living out his dream and 11 seconds into it boom you know and that's like that's how crazy life is where it's just you never know any instant anything can happen it's like never take for granted what you have but just hearing his dad talk and and how emotionally he still is is just it was always so tough but so then you wonder like what what do you what do you what is this kid gonna do it's like so scary to even think then you wonder like, what, what do you, what do you, what is this kid going to do? It's like so scary to even think about at the time, like, Oh my God, this kid's life. Like he never again can, can do anything. He, he, he cannot control any physical part of his body. What will he do? Like what,

what will, like, what would, what would I have done? What would you have done listening? Like, how do you even imagine what your life's going to be? And he went out and like I said, being dealt the shittiest hand imaginable became somebody who literally changed people's lives. And for 25 years, he lived a life with total purpose. He said, he said he lived his first 20 years with passion and he lived the last 25 years of his life with purpose. And, and all it was, was to help other people. And he's somebody who went on and the Travis Roy foundation was started.

It's helped over 2100 quadriplegics and paraplegics lead more self-sufficient lives. over 2100 quadriplegics and paraplegics lead more self-sufficient lives. They've awarded millions, $5 million in research grants. He went on to give people hope and it's coming from somebody who had many times probably had none. And so like he's, he was able to talk to kids. I saw him giving a speech once to, I don't know, it was a hundred and 150 kids and that saw him giving a speech once to, I don't know, 150 kids. And you could hear a pin drop. He could hold a room.

And the way he spoke so elegantly about what happened to him and his thought process and how – I would always get emotional thinking how dark some of the moments must have been. And you're just sitting there it's like how the fuck would anyone ever prepare for anything like that like being a former athlete like being paralyzed is it's the biggest nightmare imaginable like everyone would say it like oh my god like so he did not ever for one minute, let that define him. And like how many people could just have said, this is it. That's,

that's what am I going to do? Like, I got nothing. He just said, all right, I'm going to be better. I'm going to be good at something else. I'm going to, I'm going to make my mark on this world. And he ironically, in the face of a horrible tragedy, tragedy made a mark on the world bigger than if he'd ever played in the face of a horrible tragedy tragedy made a mark on the world bigger than if he'd ever played in the NHL and won a Stanley Cup it was like the way his life turned out to give hope to so many people and to people with accidents where their lives are changed forever and to be able to talk to him and I gotta shout out the book that he wrote uh 11 seconds with em swift if you're interested

in an amazing read check it out and also there was an e60 story on espn about Travis's life and what he meant after the bu and the program and overall just what he was able to do with his life after just something that was unspeakable and And I think that Jack Parker and him, the famous coach at BU, became so close. He's a great guy, great person, and obviously he's going to take care of a player of his even for 11 seconds that was always a part of his life. And when I got the news that Travis had passed away, it was so sad just because what he had done,

it was so special to actually think about, oh, my God, it's over. He's not with us anymore. But then you start thinking about all the things that have come since his accident. In 25 years, what this kid did, it was remarkable. And all my buddies who grew up playing hockey around here know travis well as you start texting each other like basically saying like you're giving him his like you're giving him respect to all your friends because everyone knows what this guy did and you're saying what a legend what a tough tough person he must have been

and i was reading uh i was reading different things about him, like online, and I ran into this, they had different parts of his book. And one of the things that he said in his book, he said, I've no doubt, this is Travis, that we all have inner spirit that makes us capable of doing things we never imagined. Setting new goals, finding new Travis, that we all have inner spirit that makes us capable of doing things we never imagined. Setting new goals, finding new passions, these are the things that prevent us from becoming stagnant. They can lead us to accomplishments of which we only once dreamed. And it's like, for somebody to think that way, it just shows that you can never, never give up. And I think that everyone who ever got to meet Travis Roy,

they'll always remember him as just being somebody who would never give up and never stop trying to become better than he is that day. Look to improve every day. Look to change people's lives. And this guy did it more than anyone else. So BU hockey, Travis's family. I can't imagine so many others that, that he affected and helped in life. Rest in peace brother, because it's,

it's so amazing to think of you up somewhere fresh sheet of ice flying around. So that's a great, that's a great message, I think, is just to remember how he lived his life after a horrific tragedy. So that's this week's episode. Thank you so much for listening. And stay safe out there. Peace. As always, we like to thank our awesome sponsors here on Spittin' Chicklets.

Big thanks to our longtime friends at New Amsterdam Vodka and Pink Whitney. Peace. Down a dirty road Started out All alone And the sun went down As I crossed the hill And the town lit up The world got still Thank you.