Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 350: Best Of 2021

Episode Date: September 7, 2021

On Episode 350 of Spittin’ Chiclets, we present the best interviews of 2021. (3:34) - Brent Sutter (01:20:15) - Shayne Corson (02:51:29) - Jody Shelley (03:55:12) - Bob McKenzie (05:08:50) - Chris “Knuckles” Nilan (06:23:21) - Torrey Mitchell Prank Story (06:46:07) - Nathan MacKinnon (07:32:36) - Jon Cooper Thanks to all our listeners for a great 2021 so far! Excited for more things to come.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello everybody, welcome to episode 350 of Spittin' Chicklets, presented by Pink Whitney. From our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka here in the Barstool Sports Podcast family. What's going on everybody? We got a couple more episode interviews for you to finish off the summer. And today we got a best of, a nice and chunky one for you. Mike E. Grinelli is joining me for the show. What's up buddy? All right, 350 episodes down in the books What's up, buddy? All right.

350 episodes down in the books here. Wow. That's pretty crazy. But I'm pretty hung over right now, to be honest with you. All right. My guys from Loud Luxury were in town this weekend. So this this seven hour edit, six hour edit I have ahead of myself is it's not going to be too fun. But like I said, 350 episodes in the book.

Yeah, man, it's it's a number of people ask every, you know, 50 or a hundred. You're going to, are you going to mock the, uh, the episode? And I think Whit said, we'll wait till 500. So, you know, just going to keep chugging along. Plus there's a few we did before. Officially it's probably somewhere around three 70, but yeah, we got a bunch of, uh, like I said, a best of a bunch of interviews. I think we have what eight, eight of them, nine of them all together. Eight or nine. Yeah. Media coaches. It's an all-star line of interviews. think we have what eight of them nine of them all together for nearly eight or nine yeah media coaches it's an all-star line of interviews some really good stuff how you're

going to enjoy it again it's it's kind of still on the ascent of our break here we got a couple more interviews and season's really not back in a full swing yet i know we had the office sheet we'll get to that when when the time comes but go ahead all right i want to ask you just how was your uh trip to cape cod i know you spent the past week down the cape uh it was very nice very relaxing it's kind of funny uh you don't think of lakes down cape cod you think of the beaches but the place we had was right at a lake uh so i didn't even go to the beach i just had a lake uh it's called lovers lake i never even heard of it and chatham actually has a handful lakes i've never actually stayed down there but yeah nice and relaxing well as much as relaxation you can get around your family and your siblings,

people who drive you crazy on vacation, but no, it was nice. It was a nice little, nice little break, nice little end to the summer. And I'm starting to get geared up for, you know, we got the NHL on tap, all the gambling, all the preseason odds. We got to come up with some wages, me and Merle. So yeah, it's, it's about to start getting fun around here. A lot of trips this year, too, R.A. We'll be traveling a lot, which kind of reminds me,

this upcoming week, we are dropping all the Hockey Fest content. So all the videos. If you want to see R.A.'s goalie performance, you tune into the Spit and Chicklets YouTube channel this week, as well as the Barstool Sports YouTube channel this week. We're going to be dropping our behind-the-scenes vlog, I believe, on Thursday. But everything else will be on the Barstool Sports channel channel this week. We're going to be dropping our behind-the-scenes vlog, I believe, on Thursday, but everything else will be on the Barstool Sports channel

coming out, I believe, Tuesday, Wednesday. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'd like to see the other angle of that. Nice club save I made. I'd only seen one so far, so good to see. I've seen it already, and you're going to be pleased. You'll be very pleased. Good. I can't wait. Looking forward to it.

I do want to mention, also, football is here, and that means heading out to cheer on your squad. And when you head over to your local bar, make sure you order some Pink Whitney. It's the perfect summer shot for you and your friends. And, hey, summer's not over yet. I know it's Labor Day, but we still got a few weeks left here. So order Pink Whitney at your local spot today. Pink Whitney.

It goes down nice and smooth from the pregame to the after party. All right, G, I think we should start the interviews out. This one was a classic, I believe, from our Florida trip. The months all kind of blend together. I think it was April, May, maybe. Brent Sutter, absolutely. Some of the best feedback we've ever gotten already. Yeah, we went into this one kind of blind.

We didn't know what to expect, and it ended up being a Hall of Fame interview. So without further ado, we're going to send it over to Brent Sutter. Well, I'd like to welcome our next guest to the show. He played over 18 NHL seasons with the Islanders and Blackhawks, winning two Stanley Cups on Long Island back in the 80s. He's won two World Junior Gold Medals, coaching Team Canada and a Memorial Cup. He also spent five years coaching the Devils and Flames before returning to Alberta, where he currently serves as

president, general manager, and head coach of the Red Deer Rebels of the Western Hockey League. Thanks so much for joining us on the Spit and Chicklets podcast. Brent Sutter, how we doing, my friend? Hey, doing awesome. What an intro, Jesus. What has this guy not done? He drives the bus. You drive the bus, too, don't you?

You make the lunches for the team. Yeah, I change the oil on the engine in the bus, yeah. Make it look mean. Unbelievable. So how's the arena life treating the team? Are you sleeping at the arena as well like everybody else? Nope. God, no.

No, when you're the president. No. What we do, though, is we have uh two suites uh for staff so there's two staff that uh rotate in and out and stay with the kids in the suites uh so we always make sure there's somebody always here um the guy that people like someone like myself i i fall under the protocols the same protocols if some what other teams are doing where doing where kids would just be at their billets. So I'm allowed to be at the rink and basically back at the farm

so they can't go anywhere else. How have the players been adapted to it? Is it something they got quickly used to? You know what? The players have been awesome. It was within a day this was really their choice. We gave them three options. Stay at the Billets, stay in a hotel, or be here.

And with the protocols that are in place, we had, if you're at the Billets, you can only be at the rink or at the Billets house. Or if it was a hotel, you can either be here or at the hotel. Well, the kids can't see each other once they leave the rink. Yeah. So this was, I just thought from an organizational standpoint, my son Merrick, who's my senior VP, and my nephew Sean, who's my assistant GM, we just all thought the right thing to do would be for the players to be here, but let's let them have that choice so we

talked to them and it was pretty unanimous across the board they all wanted to be at the rink so they could be hanging out with each other and doing things when uh when we're not practicing or working out so then there's a lot we got a lot for them to do here there's they got basketball hoops uh ping the ping pong things things became the real key thing here. They got tournaments going and stuff like that going on. We got this all set up on the concourse and basketball hoops. And we basically moved the bikes and everything from the waiting room upstairs on the concourse just because of social distancing. And they got card games going.

Of course, they got all their video stuff going and stuff that they do on their phones. But they have TVs everywhere. There's basically living rooms set up in different areas of the rink where there's couches. And the meals are unbelievable. We got catering service here right at the rink that's been serving the kids all their meals. They've been treated extremely good. So, you know, I wouldn't want it any other way. the rink that's been serving the kids all their meals. They've been treated extremely good. So, you know, I wouldn't want it any other way.

Well, you've certainly turned Red Deer into just such a powerhouse program in the WHL. And it's pretty cool that, you know, you got to play in Red Deer and then now you're coaching. And I kind of want to go back to your whole family, though, and that's hockey royalty. And for people who don't know, six Sutter brothers played in the NHL, six Stanley Cups, over 5,000 games played. There was actually a seventh brother, Gary, who I'm reading all you guys say was the best player, but he didn't play. Was there stories to go along with him staying back on the farm, with what I'm reading, and kind of taking over business there?

Well, Gary could play any position except goal i mean he could play forward defense uh gary was a very uh intense high strong player um he uh yeah he he gets suspended off and on for spearing guys and for doing stuff like that back in the day. And he was a tough, tough player when he played. And yet when he was 16 years of age, him and brother Brian had an opportunity to go to Red Deer and play junior A with the Rustlers. And Gary chose not to. He had a girlfriend back home that he decided,

and she came from a tough family. And Gary stayed home to help her through that and chose not to pursue a hockey career at that time. And Brian went. And that's really it in a nutshell. And Gary stayed home, and he that's what he he stayed back at viking he got married and unfortunately a year year and a half later after he married her uh they went through a divorce so yeah uh um i was gonna ask was there

like growing up like did your father play like what you know i mean being from v of course, that's one of the only things to do, playing out in the ponds because it's so cold. But did you feel like there was a pressure or anything? No, not at all. Dad didn't play at all. Dad played. He played with his work boots on in the sloughs. He had the puck all the time because if we ever went near him,

he'd spear us. puck all the time because if we ever went near him he'd spear us and so we never he got to play at the puck the whole time you know when we played on the sloughs if he played with us so no dad never played there was never any pressure from dad at all it was just something you know what a small town everybody all the kids played hockey you know there's seven boys you know we had the sloughs on the farm that we'd go scrape off and play we'd play until it was a full moon you'd play all night long um and in here in the summer we we'd throw all the bales out of the hayloft and we'd play up in the hayloft in the barn so we had a big barn and we just kept going neighbor kids or friends would come over and

we'd have tournaments we'd do whatever so yeah, it was like hockey was not just a, you know, a six-month game for us. We played year-round, just did it in different ways. You guys must have been beating the fucking wheels off each other in this fucking barn. I can only imagine that the scraps that were going on. Well, you know what? It would get pretty intense sometimes,

and then you just hear the steps coming up. The boots. Coming up the steps. Dad walking up the steps. You could hear his footsteps coming up, and it was like, okay, we all better stop right now. Because Dad would come up and beat the shit out of all of us. That's just the way it was.

Isn't there a story when you guys ended up getting to a junior where he was heading into a game and then there was cops there or something like that? Somebody teed me up for one. Okay. Yeah, it was the year that actually our team won Canada that year. We were playing in St. Albert, and it was a pretty intense rival between St. Albert and Red Deer.

And we had a really good team that year. We built our team to win Canada. And I mean, our smallest defenseman at that time was 5'10", 210 pounds. So brother Ronnie, Richie and I, we were scrubs on that team, even though we were pretty good players. And I got drafted that. That was the team I got drafted from in the first round that year was uh by the islanders was from red deer with that playing on that team but um what happened was we went into st albert and it's always was an intense

rival between the two teams and was always brawls right and brawls back in the day wasn't two fights or it was a full bench clearing brawl. Right. And the bench was emptied. Well, it didn't even get a chance for that to even happen. We we we went to the rink, got dressed, left our gloves in the dressing room and they did the same thing. And we just went out in the ice and teed off and so and of course there wasn't many fans in the building time was during warm-up and no one brought their sticks out we ever just went out we started fighting and uh it was crazy and uh it end up in the pilling box up in the stands. There was, the general managers ended up fighting in the foyer.

Our coach, John Chapman, at the time, he'd got suspended 12 games from the game before because he chased the referee on the ice in Sherwood Park after a game. So he ended up not coming there with us. So our general manager Graeme Parsons, he hid underneath the bench. He went out there, and of course, Mark

Messi's dad, Doug, is a tough cookie, and Doug is their coach. this was a real, it was a shit show. It was, it would end up in the concourse. They eventually turned the lights off, and the police came. They shut the lights off. Of course, Mom and Dad are driving up to the game,

and it's just over an hour, an hour and a half drive to get up to St. Albert from biking, and they pull in the parking lot. Well, when we walked off the ice, the police just basically told us, grab your stuff, get your just basically told us grab your stuff get your skates off grab your stuff and get on the bus and get out of town so we were walking on the bus and mom and dad pulled up in the drive into the parking lot and we've got all our equipment in there you know you got your sticks and bags and you're throwing them underneath the

bus and you're walking on the bus and uh we're still dressed up, and Dad just walks up and just goes, you asshole, and turned around and left. That was it. You had to chip in for gas money for Mom and Dad. And, you know, the next morning, Brother Darrell was playing in American Hockey. He just came back from Japan, and he played in Japan that year, and he came back, and he was playing for the Moncton Hawks,

and that was a Black the Moncton Hawks. And that was the Blackhawks farm team. And we played there on a Wednesday night. I had gotten a phone call the next morning by Daryl at 6 o'clock in the morning, which was 9, 30, whatever, 9 o'clock Moncton time in the morning. And he was like, holy shit, what the hell happened? This had already spread across Canada. Before the internet.

Yeah, well, yeah, no, there was no internet then. It was just all over the frigging, it was just all over the media. Like the news, everybody had it. And they called that Black Wednesday. That night was, that game, to this day, it's still called the Black Wednesday from that brawl. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. It was crazy. So going to that game, you guys probably know this is going to happen. Would you guys get nervous about this thing, or were you just like,

yeah, can't wait to get there and throw it out? No, no, busy. He's like, I'm from Viking, Alberta. Here we go. Well, it goes back from two years before that. Actually, Brother Dwayne and I were on the team then on the same team and i was only 15 and we played st albert had a hell of a team that year too mark was on that team messier and uh and they had an older team mark was a younger player on that team um and i believe

mark was well mark would have been 16 he was a year older than i was so he would have been a 16 year old i was a 15 year old but they had a lot of 20-year-olds come back from major junior hockey, like big guys, like big men, right? Like they were big guys. I thought anyway, 15. And we played them in the first round of playoffs. And Mark's dad, Doug, was coach in Seattle. He was an awesome coach.

And Doug's a great man too. But he was a really good coach. And yet he was tough, right? And our coach, John Shopman, was a tough coach, too. Like, great. And anyway, we got in this. And it was kind of rival all season long. There was a couple brawls through the regular season.

And then in playoffs playoffs we played them and out of the first seven games we brawled four times in warm-up and then game seven they beat us four three in game seven and that was a full-fledged brawl before the game it was crazy well back in the day you know in warm-up you'd skate around everyone both teams skate around the full rink of the ice oh my god and that's what and that's what happened is brother duane two-handed one of their players skating around and it started the whole thing in game seven well then we get beat four three so we think we're done right so we get on the bus. We come back home.

And we had a 20-year-old on our team that was married and had just built a house here. And his name was Marley Scott. And so we all went to his place. Well, we partied there for two straight days. No one even went to school. We just partied for two straight days. Well, on the second day at noon, we get a call from Chaffee, our coach, saying we won the protest. We're going to a game eight.

We're like, what? And we said, you protested the game? He said, yeah, because we only had 20 guys go out or 19 guys go out. Back then that was the rosters. They had 19 plus three more came out of the dressing room. So they had 22 guys and we had 19. And so we had won the protest from the league. So we had to go back the next night and play game eight.

Was there a brawl that game too? No, they made us warm up separately. They made us warm up separately. Well, it was crazy. We got beaten overtime. Like, I can't believe. We had 19 guys playing so hungover and going in there. And the score was 4-2, and I scored late in the game.

Or the score was 3-2, and I scored late in the game to tie it up 3-3. And I don't know if my teammates were pissed at me or not because I scored because then we had to go in overtime. But anyway, we go in overtime, and they beat us 4-3 in overtime and so that carried on and so the next year okay I'm a 16 year old and we have a completely

different coach manager comes in and he doesn't even recognize what this robbery is like. So we go into Edmonton or go into St. Albert to play an exhibition game. And this other 15 year old that played on the team the same year I did, Darren McKay, he comes to us before that day and says you guys aren't going to dress tonight because he brought all these skilled guys and like small little skilled guys in from saskatchewan and guys that he had because he was from saskatchewan stuff had no idea what this rivalry was like and darren and

i were like yes we don't have to play this but we know what's going to happen so we go sitting in the stands and we're like okay we look at our watches and we're like okay we're all warming up like being all these skilled little guys coming out st albert comes out come out right out in the ice they shoot the pucks all in our net in our net from their end and then come down in our end to get the pucks well of course what's going to happen right well our players were like holy shit because darren and i were the only two players that came back from the year before and these guys were like and they just started teeing off on everybody and it was a full-fledged brawl darren i just sat in the stands and watched it because we couldn't do anything about it, right? So then it carried on, right?

And then the next year, they had a big older team. We had an older team. They brought Chappie back. Brother Brian was actually partners of buying the team. They bought the team that summer. And they went out and recruited hard and built ourselves a phenomenal team and a big team and um yeah then this this all this stuff happened that year it led into that big brawl and uh uh what's it called black wednesday you know what's scary about that doug's dad mark or mark's dad doug he got suspended for life

from that game. No way. What did they blame him for most of it then? Well, I think it was just, I guess. Chasing your coach out of the bench? The GM? Well, no, but Doug and our trainer, Terry Sexsmith, went toe-to-toe at center ice.

This is so old school. And Terry, who was our trainer he his name his nickname was uh hook well terry played in the east coast league in the central hockey league and got suspended for life down there from kicking a guy in the head and he was our trainer so he was a very intense like if we had to get our skate sharpened between periods you had to almost go out and try to find a way to sharpen yourself because you wouldn't ask Terry to sharpen your skate for you. He'd take your skate and turn around and just throw them at you. So no one got their skates sharpened between periods, right? Oh, my God.

But that was the makeup of our team, and there was some heavy suspensions. Like our general manager got suspended for uh a year uh uh something like that but yeah mark's dad uh you know got that and i i kind of i felt bad for doug because doug is a was a really good coach and he was like all coaches back in the day they were very intense and he he built tough teams i respected that all the time. But he was an awesome coach. And it was unfortunate what happened through all that because it did hurt a guy like Doug from continuing to coach in Canada. Biz, imagine asking that trainer, like your elbow pad breaks.

Hey, I got no one. No, Biz would have been okay because Biz would have been Hook's favorite player, right? Because he loved the way Benz played, right? Would have hated me. Well, you would have been in trouble, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I've never heard of a hockey player putting a slippers to somebody like that. That's crazy.

But Brent, during this same era, I know you just mentioned you play at one of your brothers, but were there any times you were on the opposite side of one of your brothers and a situation like that popped up during these games? In a fight? Yeah. You want to be quite honest? No, not in a brawl at all with us being on opposite teams. We never played against each other in junior.

We all played in Red Deer, and then we all moved from here on to Lethbridge, and then we all went from there to the NHL. So we never played against each other in junior, but obviously we got the NHL, you know, brother Dwayne and I were in the honors, brother Ronnie and Richie were playing in Philadelphia, so there's four of us. And the first game we played, of course,

they make it a big, you know, a big thing with TV and everything. They have four brothers on the ice, two in each team. expect you know a big thing with tb and everything they have four brothers on the ice two in each team and uh we got into a scrum and uh and then all the you know teammates of both teams would just come in and break it up like you guys are brothers like what are you doing like so nothing ever nothing ever happened that way where we actually got into a situation where we dropped our gloves and fought each other now. Brent, I'm curious. You mentioned your first round pick of the Islanders. The year after getting drafted, you played in the WHL with Lethbridge. And then

just two years later, you played half the year in the dub and then half the year with the Islanders, lit it up and you go on to win the Stanley Cup. Were you called up from the WHL halfway through that season? How did that work out? Well, the year before I got called up back in there, the rules were different then. The Islanders had gotten a bunch of injuries and they came out on a Western road trip. And I was an 18-year-old playing that year in Lethbridge.

And half our team from Red Deer went on to Lethbridge along with our coach. So we had 10 players off the Centennial Cup team, plus our coach went on to Lethbridge along with our coach. So we had 10 players off the Centennial Cup team, plus our coach went on to Lethbridge. Well, we had a pretty good team still. And anyway, I was having a good year. And I got the call that they wanted me to play three games. There was a game in Calgary, then next night in vancouver then two nights later

in la because trotch was out uh steve tambolini wasn't playing uh anyway they had some sentiment of the lineup and for brother ronnie richie and i drove up to the game of course it's unreal and uh what's crazy about this is that we play that game. And, of course, the Calgary Flames are the old Atlanta Flames team. And if anybody remembers those teams, they were massive. I mean, they had so many guys that were – you know what big Clark Gillies was? Well, they had like 10 guys in their lineup that big. Like, they were a big team. And the Calgary Corrals were the game that's – they didn't have the saddle

going at the time, which we know what the corrals like right, right across the street. And, and we go in there and the one line was Wayne Merrick, Bobby Nystrom and John Tonelli. And in the dress room, it's a long narrow dress room that we had to get dressed in

i'm sitting at the back of the dress room with these three guys well we get beat that night 11-4 al arbor who's you know al's like a six foot one guy but his shoulders are like eight feet wide right and he comes in and you gotta walk opens door and he's got to walk down two steps around the corner. Now you've got the dressing room. Well, we're all sitting in the back of the room. Well, Al comes in, walks right down to the end of it, and he's staring at us in this corner.

Well, Bobby Neistrom, John Tonelli, and Wayne Maric were minus seven that night. Minus seven. That's a tough night. That's a Whitney Maricor minus seven that night. Minus seven. That's a tough night. That's a tough night. That'll cancel out a cup or two. He just walks down and he looks at me and I'm like, oh shit. He looks at the other three guys and he says

he just looks at me and goes, you three assholes. And turn on his walk-side address. So the next night we played in vancouver and we end up winning 5-2 and i had a goal and assist that night and then the next two nights later we went to la and uh we won uh 2-1 and uh i got an assist in the first goal and scored the game winner with three oh man and so anyway i there, and they sent me home after. Al comes in the dressing room, tells the players,

I already knew that I was going home. And Al comes in and says, guys, awesome, great game. Just some bad news tonight that we have to send Brent back to junior. So I went back, and no problem. And then I got called up for their Stanley Cup run against Minnesota when we got beat out of the playoffs. I got called up. And so actually Kelly Rudy and myself were black aces on that team,

Monte Troche. So, you know, Western Canada boys, right? So we go up there. Well, of course, we're having a hell of a good time. Oh, black aces is the life. You just get buckled in my whole career. Playing three and threes, game days going to the bar. But anyway, going for cocktails after practice and stuff like that.

So we were having fun. And anyway, they beat Minnesota. So it was a great experience to learn through all that. It was amazing just to be around the guys, practice with them um just seeing what it was like and then the next year I went I went back um to training camp and led the team actually in scoring and training camp and uh then Bill called me and Bill Torrey the general manager called me and him and Al and uh just mentioned hey Brent like you had a great camp. We want to send you back. Let's see how the start of the season goes.

I want to be loyal to the guys that won the Stanley Cup. You understood that, but you were disappointed too. So I went back and I had like, I don't know, like 80-some points in 30 games. You had 46 goals in 34 games. Time to move on. Yeah, and I don't know. And I had like 200-and-something.

I mean, it was crazy like that. We had a hell of a team. But in a way, I had gotten named to the World Junior Team. And I had gotten a call, and they had mentioned to me that they wanted to name me to the team and that they wanted me to be the team captain. So I thought that's what I was doing. Well, then Bill calls me a couple of days later and said,

this was like now around that December 10th or so. He said, we don't want you going to the World Juniors. He said, we're going to bring you up for a couple games before christmas and then we're going to uh then we're going to send you back home and let you spend christmas your last christmas at home with your mom and dad and uh and then you'll stay for another week and we'll call you up on january 4th so i already had so I already knew the plan. So I played, um, and then I got,

uh, went up on December, uh, December 21st. I played Detroit December 22nd. I played at home and on the Island against Winnipeg. And then I went, uh,

then they sent me home. I got to spend Christmas at home with mom and dad, um, and brother Ronnie Richie, the other, the other boys were already playing the NHL. And I went back to Lethbridge and played a week there, and they called me up on January 4th. That was it?

That was it. The rest is history, I guess. Who was your line in the run to that cup? And that would have been the third straight, right? Well, you know, it's funny. I was playing with uh i was playing with brother duane and uh and um bobby born that year to start with and uh the crazy bizarre how the year worked the playoffs like you're 80 go in there you

end up i don't know what it was 41 points in 41 games or something like that. And then Shell had 20-some goals and led the team in penalty minutes. Then get in the playoffs, and we're playing game one against the New York Rangers. And as we all know, growing up, you were never taught to be the last man coming out of your zone trying to carry the puck up the ice and of course i did that i was just inside our blue line and rob mcclanahan who was a u.s olympian player um stripped the puck off my stick and um went in and scored the game winner for the Rangers. Of course, the Island Rangers rivalry. So we lost the game 5-4.

Nothing said to me after the game. Of course, you feel like an idiot. I never seen another regular shift. I got two or three shifts a game after that. I played on the fourth line. You're playing against the other team's tough guys. I never played hardly at all. And, you know, and the guys kept coming to me like, you know, what's going on?

What are they telling? I said, nothing, guys. Like, I just got to do my job. This is what I'm told to do. I can't. I don't have answers for you, right? So I'm just going to keep playing the way I do. And I'm only getting three shifts a night.

I'm only getting three shifts a night. I'm only getting three shifts a night. It's not about me. It's about winning the Stanley Cup, right? So whatever. So we get into game two of the Stanley Cup finals against the Vancouver Canucks. We win game one. Game two, we're up like 5-1 or something in the second period. And we had a power play.

I won or something in the second period. And we had a power play. And a face-off was in the offensive zone, in Vancouver's zone. And, of course, we got Trotch and Boss and, you know, Dennis Potkin. We got the power play on the ice. Well, Al comes and taps me on the shoulder and says, go take Trotch off. I'm like, what?

Pardon? Yeah, like, sorry? And and he goes get out there so i went and i tapped trotch and of course he's trotch is an awesome team guy and he gave me a tap on the shin pads and took a face off and we scored on the power play and uh and i didn't get off the ice the rest of that game i was out every second shift, played with everybody. And then we get into Vancouver. He starts me in the opening night lineup on the Stanley Cup Finals Game 3. So the way we go, play the game, take a regular shift. I think it was first star of the game or whatever.

And then get into Game 4. And same thing. Play a ton. And we win the Stanley cup, right? You win. And everyone's partying in the dressing room after the game. And Jim Pickard,

our equipment manager comes in and taps me on the shoulder and says, L L's nickname was radar. He said, uh, radar wants to see outside the dressing room. I'm like, what? Like we just want to see outside the dressing room. I'm like, what? We just won a Stanley Cup. Team meetings.

I didn't like your third period, Brett. Celebrating with the boys. And he comes. I walk out of the dressing room, and he's standing there. And, again, he's a broad-shouldered man and just an awesome guy. And he walks up to me and grabs me right underneath my throat like this and squeezes me like this. And he's got his hand underneath my chin. And he says, what did you learn from this?

And I'm like, pardon? And he goes, what did you learn from this? And I'm like, I'm not really, what did you learn from this? I'm like, I'm not really sure where you're headed with this one, but I don't know, like winning? Like what are you supposed to answer, right? And he goes, I just made you the toughest son of a bitch in this league, and you're going to have a long career, so enjoy this Stanley Cup. No shit.

Wow. And I played 18 years, you know, and I was able to weather through a lot of stuff mentally and you just you're he really yeah as hard as it was he made me be a great pro and understand the mental toughness part of the game at a really young age and yeah so and Al was my coach for 10 years right he was like a second I was like a second son to him he just or he was like a second father to me. He just, or he was like a second father to me, I guess I should say. He was, he was unbelievable the way, the way he was. And, you know, we had great communication there on.

I had a lot of, a lot of respect for Al. You know, one of the best to ever do it, Al Arbor. Everyone knows that, but it was so different back then, like coaching and things have changed so much. And I know he was probably pretty quiet when the guys asked you if he said anything you're like no but occasionally would he tell guys good job was there pats in the back or really none of that you know what al was al was a great players coach um the guys a lot of the guys in that dressing room had played for al since he came in the league since or since he started coaching eldersers back and i believe it's been 75 or whatever year it was 74 so they'd already he'd already been a coach for five or six years right so uh al you know al was a very intense coach um but he was also he had a great

knowledge of the game and um he back in the day guys, there was no video. You didn't have assistant coaches. He was the head coach, and there was no other coaches on the bench, so he ran the whole bench. He used to come in with a hockey stick, and if he didn't like the way you were playing, he'd come and drill you as hard as he can with a hard stick right in the shin pad. And then he'd just look at you in his eyes through his glasses,

and his glasses would hang down halfway down his nose, and he'd push his glasses up, and all he'd do is look at you, and you were like, oh, shit. So everybody knew, but everyone had such a huge amount of respect for Al. They loved him as a coach. You know, Al was a great coach. His record speaks for itself. For years, he was the second one he has coached in National Hockey next to Scotty Bowman and then Joe Quindle passed out. It was years that you look back,

and actually a lot of times you like to have do-overs. Guessing Radow was a MASH nickname, right? Well, you know, he got his name from his glasses he wore when he played, right? He was a defenseman for the St. Louis Blues. Oh, no shit. Wow. Defenseman for the St. Louis Blues, and he wore glasses, and he had the white strippper on the middle of his glasses so his glasses wouldn't break.

He wore a strap to keep his glasses on and he played defense. Al, if you look back on, and I don't know, you obviously don't, but you look back on it and you see games back in the 60s and stuff like that, Al was a phenomenal shot blocker.

He'd throw his face down in front of anything. When Al was a great defensive defenseman and he was a big man, if you look at some of his highlights and stuff, that is pretty cool to watch. I know you probably weren't thinking coaching back 40 years ago, but how much of his coaching style did you incorporate into yours years later? Well, you know what? I think you learn a lot from all coaches you played for. I think we all do.

But, you know, John Chapman, my coach in junior, was a great coach. He taught me how to be a pro. He taught me how to play both ends of the ice. Chap, he had played in the minors for years, and he coached Lanny McDonald in Lethbridge when they were playing in Junior A before Lanny went on to the Medicine Hat Tigers. And they were called at the time the Lethbridge Sugar Kings. But Jaffe taught me how to, you know, the fundamentals, how to play the game the right way and I went on and was just like it was I don't want to use the word easy because it was never easy to get to the end shell but you had

such a good understanding the game coming out of junior you knew and that and Al really appreciated that that's why he put me in a lot of key situations because I wasn't like a young player had to be taught those things already knew coming in and uh um so I you know I I learned a lot in junior but Al you know Al just Al taught you how to be a great professional and uh and how to handle situations uh um I had a lot of respect for Al and yeah I I think even to this day um you know there's certain things that I look back back on if I'm standing watching practice and things are going through your head and you're sitting there going, OK, well, in this situation, how would Al do, you know, come up and react to this player for doing this or this and this? And it's been always kind of a calming influence. So, yeah, I think every coach, I mean, I played for Brother Darryl. I played for Mike Keenan.

I played for Glenn Sather in Canada Cups. I had other great assistant coaches through the process. And you learn from all of them. Craig Hartsburg, I played for Hartsey. You learn from all your coaches. And I think they all have helped me in my coaching in different ways. But it's funny. I still use things.

Like Al used to come and shut the lights off on us in the dressing room. And you know it was crazy, but it was a really interesting thing how he used to do it. He would come in and tell us to lie down and put our feet up on our stalls. And this would be between periods. And so we'd lie down and put our feet up in stalls. And he'd shut the lights off and he said, okay, clear your minds and think about something. Close your eyes and think about something in this period that you can do great. And so it's unbelievable how it works. Like I've done that with players here, and they're like,

geez, it's just like it totally resets you. And so it's, you know, the stuff like that, it's still things you can use in the game, even though the game has changed. But it's still about focus and mental side of it well i was going to ask about a few things i mean you always got to have your own little twists on it now did you learn uh giving the guys wood twigs or starting 5d man off off the this to the start the game from from him or was this your own little thing well no that was

my thing on the fly um you know the hockey hockey stick thing, it was the year we won the Memorial Cup, actually. And we weren't playing very well. And we only lost, I don't know how many games that year, 10 or 12, whatever it was. But we weren't playing well. And, of course, you know the type of team you have, and you know you have a chance to be successful, maybe win a Memorial Cup. So we were going into Brandon.

And so I went to Radar, my equipment manager, and I said, Radar, go down to a sports store or to McLeod's or whatever and just buy 24 wooden sticks. And he's like, what? And this is right when all these, you know, of course, wooden sticks are starting synergies and all this junk. There was still well, yeah, and there were still, you could still use wood blades on these aluminum

shaft sticks, but the full wooden stick wasn't there, right? And so everyone never even, like these kids weren't like, we're not using sticks. So anyway, I told him to go down and do it. So we're playing in Brandon and we're down 3-0 in the first period. So I walked in the dressing room, and I didn't say anything to anybody. I just went around and picked up everybody's sticks and walked to the dressing room with an armful of 20 sticks.

And I went and put them in a bag, and I picked up the other 20 sticks, wooden sticks, and I walked in the other 20 sticks, wooden sticks, and I walked in the dressing room, put a wooden stick in front of every player and said, tape your stick, and I want everyone with white tape on your blades, and I want you to write work on both sides of your blade. So we came out the second period with these wooden sticks and had tape on our, white tape on our blades, and with work on both sides, and we ended up winning the game 7-3.

You know what was crazy about that is that I told them they only get one stick. So we have to practice and play. No one took a slop shot in practice. No one. Can't risk breaking it. Yeah, because they're afraid to break it because they didn't think there was another stick. They didn't know I had another wooden stick for them if they broke it, but I didn't tell them that.

We didn't lose a game for a month with wooden sticks. Come on. One wooden stick, we didn't lose a game. You know what was crazy about that? These guys became all, you know, when you got those other sticks, guys are hitting glass.

Every shot was high in practice. Like it was just like crazy, right? And they use these wooden sticks and no one missed the net. Everybody was dialed in to shoot the puck the right way and in games we are our percentage of shots on network had increased phenomenal on shots on that because we this is what we used and they it wasn't about how hard the shot was it was strictly about placement and the guys they wouldn't they weren't slashing each other's sticks in practice and breaking them, everyone was scared to lose a stick. So that's what we did. But the cool part about all that is we started taping little mini sticks in the store with work on it.

We had companies sending us mini sticks done up like that. It was the biggest selling item that year in our store where mini sticks with white tape and work written on them every kid in our community had a mini stick with work on it with white tape it was just bizarre how it worked out and uh it became just a real big thing and that the other rest is history i gotta ask at what point and why did they get to go back to the other sticks if they were working so well? Well, I didn't think they could make it into playoffs with just one stick. So I went in two days, two games before playoffs started,

and I gave them back their sticks, and we didn't miss a beat. We just kept going. I called one of my favorite ex-teammates, Colby Armstrong, who you had the pleasure, I'm sure, of coaching in Red Deer, and he told me a hilarious story. He's like, oh, ask him about the time I threw my helmet at him in the WHL finals. Well, we were playing Portland in the finals,

and we were in game two, and we won game one here in our building. In game two, we were up like 5-1 or something early in the third. And Kobe took like three minor penalties. He was one of those guys that when you went and go checked him, you know that hit where you hit him back? Yeah, reverse hit. That's all he did. But he did it with his elbow. Yeah.

So he got these elbow penalties all the time. And we ended up winning the game. We scored an empty net goal and won like 6-4. It shouldn't have been that way, but we did. And they've gotten two or three power play goals on us with Kobe in the penalty box in the third period. So we go into Portland, and it's game three. And Kobe took two minor penalties with the same thing.

Jesus, R.B. Yeah, in the first period so I was pissed so I go in the dressing room and I said to my assistant coach before I went in there I said watch this I said I'm gonna get poley or Kobe's uh get him rattled but he's gonna go out and he's gonna play like a stud the rest of the night so I went in and I just said, Kobe, like, are you scared? Like, are you a pussy? Like, is this what you play like? Are you scared to get hit and make a play?

Like, what? And he stands up and he looks at me. And I'm standing. And now imagine it's a rectangle dressing room and you got stalls at the end of the dressing room, stalls on the side. And where i'm up where i'm standing there's a whiteboard big whiteboard he stands up and he goes i'm not fucking scared i'm no pussy and he took me through his helmet right at me went right by my head hit the whiteboard i looked at him i walked out of the dressing room and i looked at

dallas and i said you watch he's going to be unbelievable he walked out of the dressing room, and I looked at Dallas, and I said, you watch. He's going to be unbelievable. He was star of the game. The next few periods, he was lights out. And you know what? He was awesome from that point on. Oh, shit. And that's the story.

Like, it was just – You got him fired up. Oh, and I love Kobe to death. He's a good man, and he was a great player, and he played – I don't know. We had a really good team then, and I was really close to the guys. And even to this day, you still connect with a lot of them. Kobe is on TV.

I'll text him every now and then and say, like, what the hell are you talking about? I can't even hear what you're saying. You're just stumbling through your words. And then I asked him, because last year, you're in the Hub. Do you guys remember when they interviewed Kobe, he had two jerseys hanging behind him, a Pittsburgh Penguins jersey and his Red Your Rebels jersey. Well, this year, he doesn't have the Red Your Rebels jersey. No shit.

So I kind of give him a shit about that, too. I'm like, yeah, you forget where you came from, bud. So I kind of give a shit about that, too. I'm like, yeah, you forget where you came from, bud. Hey, I got to go back just quickly because we kind of jumped away from the Islanders. And you won that fourth straight cup the Islanders did against the Oilers. And I've talked before on the podcast about Gretzky mentioning, like, they left that night and they saw all you guys icing down and kind of realized, like, what it took to win. And you come back and you're going for your fifth straight,

and the Oilers took it down, and they got there first. Did you notice when that series started, it was a way different Oilers team than the year prior? I know the guys were a year older, but did you kind of realize we're in one here going for that fifth? Oh, for sure. I mean, look at the year before when the Edmonton was dying. They had all these great young players, right? Gratz, Mass, Curry, Kevin Lowe, Paul Coffey, Grant Feared,

Glenn Anderson, on and on and on, right? The oxygen of pantry. Only all superstars, right? And, of course, we had a great team, too. And we were playing Boston in the semifinals, and it was game six in Boston. And the Oilers had already won their series and I believe they

swept somebody, I'm not sure who it was and the media in the pre-game after the pre-game skate the media were like well there's no team here like in this division or this conference is going to beat the Oilers like it doesn't matter whether

you guys win this, you guys are going to you know that that just fired us up right you thought you found the stanley cup champions this right yeah well we went out and beat boston that night and we were wired for that series to come and uh we ended up beating oilers four straight and and gretz brought that up uh you know, we all heard that. And I, I truly believe that. I think they learned a lot from that series and how to, you know, how to be a champion and how to play like Stanley cup winners.

And we had to play them the next year. And we lost the first game, won nothing, our building won the second game. And that was the only time at that point in time, they did it the next year, I believe with Philly and Ed did it the next year i believe with philly and edmonton the next year too where it was a two three two series where you played two

at home went into visiting building played three and two back home nba style i think they they beat they like we weren't even close in the in games three four and five with them the scores were like six one seven two whatever it was like they, whatever it was. They were on a roll. But in fairness to ourselves, the team had gotten older. We were banged up pretty good. It was a lot of hockey to play back then, right? Oh, my God. To go force down the cups, the amount of playoff games you're playing.

And our opponent was lights out, of course, and all the stars. It kicked them off, obviously, for them to do what they did after that. But, you know, they deserved to win that Stanley Cup. They were a phenomenal team, great players. You know, it's crazy. Off that group, I played with a lot of them in the Canada Cup in 1984 after they won the Cup. Slots was the coach.

You got to know the guys pretty well. There was Gretz, Mess, Koff, and myself are four of the players that played in all three Canada Cups in 1984, 87, 91.

So you got to know them pretty well from being teammates of theirs and just the way they looked at the game. I learned a lot from them too just through the Canada Cup situations, but they were definitely an unbelievable team, and they were for years after that. Brent, when they beat you, did you know basically that the torch for dynasties had been passed essentially then? Or did you guys think, all right, we can get them again next year?

Well, you always want to believe you're going to come back. But then, you know, I think some of the business parts started kicking in too. We started having some contract issues with some players. You know, and then guys started leaving the team. And you've got to remember something, too. The Islanders, through those four years, were drafting, you know, every year in the bottom part of the draft. Yeah.

And eventually, you know, your talent changes. And that's kind of what eventually went in all the Stanley Cups. Eventually, over time, caught up with the Islanders. Eventually, your level of skill and your team drops off. I was there for 10 years. When I got traded, I was the last for two years on the team. I was the last player that ever played in that Stanley Cup the last two years of my career in the Island.

It was just Al, not myself and Bill. We were the only three people. Our trainers had left. the last two years of my career in the island. So it was just Alan, myself, and Bill. We're the only three people. Our trainers had left. We're the only three people still left from the Stanley Cup years. And in your career, I mean, I think 10 or 11 seasons, you know, over 50 points, but 50 and 60 points. And then the one year, 84, 85, you get 102 points.

I mean, was it who you were playing with that season? What changed that one season to just really light it up? Well, certainly who you're playing with definitely helps. And we came out of the Canada Cup. In the Canada Cup, you know, there was such a – I don't know how to explain it to you guys, but we – of course, you got the honors. guys but we of course you got the honors you got um john tinelli bobby born myself um uh like what was potvin there was potvin i don't think dennis well i don't think dennis came to that oh okay he didn't either no he didn't so and then you had a whole you had a like there was seven or eight oilers so um

and there was a lot of i don't just we just weren't the team that we needed to be we just weren't as close as we needed to be and uh um we had a tough go through the canada cup that year through the tournament itself uh through the regular regular uh games that we're playing through the round robin side of it and what turned it around actually was in vancouver um we kind of got into well what happened was the day before we held a meeting and it was and we were and you guys all know what to be sure the west end everyone's staying there and we got this big room and we're all sitting in chairs up around outside the room and we had

a meeting and players expressed their feelings about everything and maybe about some teammates because of the Stanley Cup game and with the Oilers and them beating the Oilers and I know Bobby

was, Bobby Bourne was very vocal about some things. And John Talley brought up a couple of things. And the Oilers players brought a couple of things. And, but it was great because it sorted it out. And we all got kind of on the same page. And then we had a, had a big scrum against Sweden between the benches. And of course you got the Oilers and the Honor players, you know, now all of a sudden battling with each other and, and it changed,

changed the whole dynamics. Then we ended up winning overtime against Russia at the Saddle Dome in Calgary 3-2. And, you know, there was myself and Johnny and Boss and Paul Coffey was the one that started that whole play after breaking up a 2-1 against us. And then it went down the other way, and we ended up scoring. And then Slots put the three of us together. And then we went back to Long Island.

And you guys know, like, back in the day, you went to camp to get in shape. Yeah. Right? You three were buzzing already. We were all, like, in mid-season form. Yeah. So by Christmastime, and Al was smart. Al kept us together.

Like Boston Trotts were, you know, a twosome that played together for all those years. But then when we came back from the Canada Cup, he put the three of us together. Or kept the three of us together. And there was like, by Christmasmas time we all had 60 some points jesus there was a game we played the l.a kings and i remember the l.a kings had only won 10 games that year whatever it was or 15 games they weren't very good and uh um there was a game there where we won eight two and john tonnell boss, and myself scored all eight goals. And we all had like six, seven, eight points each for one line, right?

And so those points, we do that in a game, they add up, right? And then I missed the last 10 games of the season. I had separated my shoulder and missed the last 10 games. And I came back for the last game. I missed 10, they came back for the last game uh i missed him they came back for the last game and and uh jt got his hundredth point that night so boss ended up with 120 some points i ended up with 100 whatever it was and and jt ended up with 100 right on so amazing uh yeah it was it was really um again it was i think it had a lot to do with just being in shape when you got there. Like we were in game shape already because we were already playing these high-level, intense games like Stanley Cup playoff games.

And so we were further ahead. And, you know, I was very fortunate to play in that Canada Cup team because that year they named 30 players to the camp. And Brother Brian Brian got named. And I was training with Brian at Brian's Garage in Sylvan Lake and working out with them to get him in top shape to go there. And so we were pushing each other for quite some time, training and stuff, because he was obviously very excited to go. Well, they got there.

stuff because he was obviously very excited to go well they got there and that was the year that trotch decided not to go to team canada he used he used his treaty card to join the u.s team instead of team canada so bill tory was the gm in slots and And I got a call from Alan Eagleson. They reported on Friday, and this was Monday. And I got a call from Alan Eagleson. He called me and said, hey, Brent, Alan Eagleson here. We want you to come in and join our team in Montreal. And I was like, F you, and I hung the phone up. I thought it was someone

messing with me. They had already named it. I wasn't expecting it. That's exactly what I said to him. I went, F off, and I hung the phone up. I thought someone was just screwing with me. And about two minutes later, the phone rings again. It's Bill Torrey. And he says, Brent, that was Al

Nagelson. We're inviting you into our cap here. And I was, Brent, that was Al Nagelson. We're inviting you into our cap here. And I was lucky because I had been training with Brian, so I was in pretty good shape. So I went in there and I ended up making the team. And that was the year that Peter Stashny had naturalized to become a Canadian citizen because he was playing in Quebec. And so he got named to the team that year too.

So it was definitely unique how it all happened. You mentioned the situation with the Islanders, or not the Islanders, against the Rangers, and you guys ended up going on to win the Cup. Was that the same year you ended up having the off-ice issue with an Islanders fan, or a Rangers fan, excuse me? Are you talking about after we won the Cup? After you won the Cup.

I don't know if you guys went to a basketball game or a baseball game. Yeah, well, it was about four days after, and Brother Dwayne and I took our wives to the New York Mets game at Shea Stadium. And we're having some drinks, and we're sitting in the stands drinking beer and we're eating hot dogs or whatever that we all do when we go to a baseball game and both of us have to go to the bathroom so we get up and walk to the bathroom

and we're standing there at the urns, which men do, right? And there's, Dwayne's down and there's a urine between us and there's me. Well, then this person comes in between us and of course you kind of look over and you don't even pay attention well then all of a sudden

i hear it was pretty funny this guy turns instead of pissing in the urine he turns and he pisses all down duane's leg and into his shoes and duanewayne had these, Dwayne had these white, Dwayne had these brand new white shoes that he bought. Like back in the, of course, that's when the designer jeans started coming out and stuff. Instead of wearing Wranglers and Levi's stuff that, well, in York, everyone's wearing these, these jeans. And he always wore these cool shoes with them.

Well, Dwayne bought these brand new pair. They were like whitest, creamish shoes, leather shoes. Well, this guy filled his shoes with them. Well, Dwayne bought these brand new pair. They were like whitest, creamish shoes, leather shoes. Well, this guy filled his shoes right up. And then he turned around and ran out while Dwayne isn't even done. He turned and started chasing this guy. Well,

I walk out and this guy's darting down the concourse and Dwayne's down there with piss all over his leg and in his shoes and stuff. And this guy turns around, he's got a New York Rangers jacket on and a hat and turns around, gives Dwayne the thing there with piss all over his leg and in his shoes and stuff. And this guy turns around. He's got a New York Rangers jacket on and a hat. And he turns around and gives Dwayne the finger. And he goes, F you, Sutter. I hate you. And Dwayne kept running.

So we go back to the stands. And Dwayne now is like he's mad, upset, obviously. And he's wrecked his shoes. He's got piss all over him. And he's sitting there. And he's got piss all over him and he's uh he's sitting there and he's stinking right so we get in the car and we're drive through the midtown tunnel in new york and the car just reached with with this guy urinating on dog and he's got his shoes on and i said dog get those shoes off and throw them off because it's off. So dog stopped the car, took his shoes off,

threw them out the window on Long Island Expressway. Oh, what a pissing run. I told brother, brother Dwayne's name is dog. I said, you know, dog, it just goes hand in hand. Your nickname is dog for a reason. You piss on tires, you're on hydrants, stuff like that. This guy pissed on you. He got even with you.

Sorry for butchering the start of that one, but speaking of nicknames, do people still call you Pukie? Yeah. You know what? I know it sounds awful, but it's been my nickname since I was five years old.

Back home and biking, out on the farm, we had the long bus ride so we get picked up at 10 to 7 in the morning and get dropped off at school at quarter nine and back in the days the roads have all changed now back then it was curbs you'd take the roads were built around the sloughs now they're built through the sloughs right so we had an area where we had to go on the bus and it was bad hilly windy road and it was about a 20 minute and you had to go pick up two or three um different homes of kids and then come back and go back in town that way and i always got sick on the bus in grade one

right then i could not go through that one area of the bus on that trip of our school route and i got sick on the bus every day for like three four straight months and then so this is what was stupid about it so that was my nickname that's how i got the name pukey so but what really pissed my brothers off gary brian andaryl, is that it didn't matter how cold it was or how warm it was. The bus driver stopped at that corner, dropped me off. And one of them had to get off, would stand with me and stand there for 20 minutes while the bus made the trip to come back so I wouldn't get sick on the bus and take us to school. So it didn't matter whether it was minus 40 or minus 30 or plus 30 it didn't matter they had to one of them had to stand with me because i was their younger

brother and i was only in grade one so that's how i got the name pukey and to this day everyone at home that's all they know about me i mean i i'm just used to it doesn't doesn't really matter when i went to the island they started calling me me Pup because Brother Dwayne's name was Dog. So they just started to call me Pup. So in the hockey circles, I was known as Pup, but in real life, my nickname is what it is. Brent, I want to bring up one of your teammates you mentioned already, the goalie, Billy Smith.

There was a prototype for the crazy goalie. It was probably Billy Smith. I think he had two seasons where he only had single digit penalty minutes uh what was what was it like working with him playing with him for basically a decade oh smitty was awesome you know smitty was smitty was a goalie but great guy um you know great teammate like that he they always said he was the money goalie and you know what the bigger the, the better this man played. But in practice, if you shot the puck over his waist, he would come with his stick and just drill you with his stick.

So you had to shoot the puck from waist down or he'd be pissed off. So everyone knew that in practice. You knew you couldn't shoot high and spinning in or he'd he would friggin lose his mind but then as we got close to playoffs he completely would change his attitude he'd be pissed at us for not trying to score no shit and uh and then he was a batter like that's why he called Billy Battler Smith. And he would just be, yeah. And he played like that. Like, he was a gamer. And, you know, it's crazy how his routine was when he played.

Like, I sat next to Billy in the dressing room on Long Island for years. And there was always one stall between him and I. And I knew not to mess with that stall between us. Like, as you know, as a player, the way goalies are. And he'd come in, put his underwear on, set his goal pads down on the floor. And back then, you guys know what the lockers were like, right? They're not like today where they're open on the sides. Back then, they were boxed in lockers, like they had the sides on them.

You couldn't see the guy sitting next to you if you sat back in your locker. But Billy would sit back in your locker but billy would sit back in his locker and i would make sure when guys came because it was right beside the door that walked out that no one touched his pads like do not even touch his pads or else he'll come up swing it right so i'd always be like guys like you know i you know, I was like, it was crazy. But anyway, he read Louis L'Amour, those Western books. So he'd sit back in a stall, grab the book, and lean back in a stall so you couldn't see him. And he read the book. He never even listened to one meeting.

He read the books through the meetings. He never, Al just ignored him. And he just sat there and read his book while the meetings were going on. He didn't even listen to any meeting or nothing. He just read his book, and that's how he prepared to play. Very calming guy in the dressing room. Didn't say much, but awesome guy, like awesome off the ice. We had a lot of fun together.

Good man. awesome guy like awesome off the ice we had a lot of fun together um good man um i i have i have a lot of respect for smitty because he was he was a gamer and he you know he had his ways of the way he practiced and stuff but there was one time that uh he just took off off the ice because someone shot the puck and hit him in the chest instead of keeping the puck. And he just went right to the door and skated off the ice. I'm not practicing with these guys. And he played the next night and got a shutout. That's just the way the game was back then.

Now a player gets sent down to the minors or he gets suspended or fined or whatever. But back then that wasn't the case. Brent, we could talk to you about five hours. Six more hours. This is great, but when you retired, I think it was a year off, and you got right into coaching Red Deer, and all of a sudden after a few years and a Memorial Cup and a WHL championship, you're tagged to coach the Canadian World Junior Team.

And sure as shit, you coached the greatest team to ever probably play with Bergeron, Perry, Weber, Getzlaff. It was just that list. And then you win it again in 06. First coach to ever win back-to-back gold medals for Team Canada. Why did you choose not to go for the third straight? I read it was your decision to not go back and go for the third. Well, you know what?

It was just a long time to be away from your team. Yeah. Like, great. Like, you're leaving on... Back then, it's different now. When I got the position in 2005, I met with Bob. Bob came and met with me. Bob Nicholson just said,

Brent, would you want to run our program and coach this team for this coming season? I just asked him. I said, well, what's it entitled? When you talk to me about this, like, do you want me to coach you or what are you doing? He said, no, I want you to change the culture. They hadn't won the gold medal in seven years. And he says, we want you to run it just like you do Red Deer.

So, man, when I bought the team with the Rebels, everyone said, well, you know, geez, you name yourself, coach, general manager, whatever, whatever. Bus driver. Yeah. But I had paid the most money for a junior franchise that was ever sold to that point in hockey, and I could not afford. I had put my whole, like, we didn't have the money.

Obviously, you guys know that these NHL players make now. Like, I had my whole life savings. I my farm everything up for collateral wow that's crazy i could i could have lost it all right and uh and i had a bank that backed me uh we did a 10-year loan agreement and uh and as i paid it off they would take my land or my house or whatever off as collateral. So I kept doing it. And I couldn't afford to pay for a coach or general manager. I didn't have a choice. And anyway, just how it all worked out.

And in our press conference, I don't know, to be quite honest, I can't believe I even said it but i did i said we're going to win the moral cup within three years with this team and we won it the second year and i didn't even know the players i just we had two players i helped terry simpson was a coach then and uh wayne simpson was the gm and they were partners with the team i'd own the team and they're the ones that sold me the team and uh i helped them a little bit through the year that year uh just proxies and stuff and uh but i really like some of the players like the young kids were good players but i knew they had their list was really good and i went around watched some of their players

and seeing that the list was really good and the next year when we won the world cup two two years later we had two players from the team that when i the first year i coached them in 1999 2000 season uh we only had two players in the one season back so the whole culture had to change some and uh and we worked at it uh so when i got named 05 i got named the coach there and um we had to change. It was scary. I went the first day I went down in the dressing room. I was like, you got to be joking. I mean, there was, there was more people hanging around the players in the dressing room.

There was actually players. Really? It was just terrible. And, and, you know, you got all this, all the equipment companies and stuff like that. And they're all, they're right in the dressing room. I just I shut everything down I just came in and said no you nothing's happening inside this dressing room only people out in this dressing room are the players coaches and trainers that's it if you want to do media it's outside you want to do whatever

it's outside these kids got to learn and understand the focus point of how this has to be done and and it was definitely a change um and we had a great team right like you think about that old five team we had 13 players coming back from the old four team when they lost in the gold medal game um and it was just you, I just met with the 13 players, and the first thing I did, my first position that Bob and I talked about after we made the decision that I would move forward with this was I hired Pete DeBoer, and Pete became my co-coach, and then we hired Jimmy Houlton as our assistant coach, and Pete was in the very same mindset as myself and the way things had to be changed and done. And, uh, we worked closely on it all. And, um, you know,

and we met with the 13 players that we've turned and we just said, Hey guys, this is the way it's got to be. Uh, this is what, what we want to see happen and you guys can be part of it or not. Uh, but when they when they when they joined in to be partners in on it and that's what i say was it was a partnership right there they joined in and said okay we'll do it this way and so we knew that we just had to pick seven players or i guess it would have been nine players that would mix with these 13 guys to make our best team. And it's crazy how it worked out because we went into our last exhibition game.

We're playing Winnipeg against the university of Manitoba and Corey Perry. It was a do or die game for Corey because he had really struggled through camp stuff, but everyone, you know, knew that he was a good player and he was just having a tough go with it. But we had other players. We had two players, actually, Eric Fair and Ryan Stone. No, was it Ryan Stone?

I forget his first name. They played Brown. They were 1-2 in scoring in the Western Hockey League, and it was coming down to one of those three guys to make the team and Corey had three goals and three assists on 91-61 and so it's an easy decision right at that point but when you think about that team and then that was the lockout year so we had all these stud junior players on our team if there would have been in Shahaki there's probably seven or eight of them who never played in that team that would have played in show.

You look at our defense, like Dion Fanoff, Shea Weber, Braden Colburn, Brent Seabrook. And you look up front, Bergie got sent to us from American Hockey because the year before he plays an 18-year-old for Boston, then there was a lockout so he could play in the American League. Well, they sent him back to us to play in the World Juniors. So then our one line was Patrice at Centre Ice with Sydney and that's pretty cool, right? Even to this day, every international met, they play on, they play together. But it all started in that world juniors right and uh i kept them or we put them on a line together and then uh uh we had uh cory perry playing with them and then we had ryan gatslap jeff carter and andrew ladd on the next line

and then we had mike Richards, Anthony Stewart, and Nigel Jaws as our third line. And then we had Clark MacArthur, Colin Fraser, and I'm trying to think of the Dixon boys. Was it Steve Dixon? Steve Dixon. Dickie was on that team? Yeah, Dickie made that team. You're talking about getting the right spice,

and I think that he knew Sid from growing up, and he was such a good team guy, great guy to have around, good penalty killer too. Yeah, he was awesome. So that was our energy line. And then the 13th player that couldn't play forward, that couldn't play, that got hurt was Jeremy, Jeremy Colton. Jeremy hurt his knee.

And he wasn't able to play, but we named him on the team anyway. Then on our back end, it was like we had, like I mentioned, those guys. And then we had Cam Barker was the only 18-year-old player on the team. Everybody else was 19. And we had Sean Bell. Yeah, he could skate so well, that guy. Yeah, and then Danny Severette. And that was our defense.

And then goal, we took two goalies. We weren't, these two goalies, they didn't get invited to our August camp. At that time, we thought, okay, let's take the two best goalies in our country that know that they might only have to stop 15 or 20 pucks in a game, so they've got to be mentally strong and they've got to come from good defensive teams. We took the goalie

Trevor Glass from Kootenay and the Boeschman boy from Prince Albert. They're the best two defensive teams in the league, and those teams were only giving up 15, 20 shots a game. And we didn't give up a game more than 15 shots to the World Juniors. So we needed guys to keep themselves in the game and be mentally good.

And yeah, the kids were fired up. Like we went into North Dakota. We drove down from Winnipeg, and that team was wired. Like, they wanted to prove the year before was not what they were expecting, wanted, and they were dumb. And, of course, you look at that team, I don't think anybody can argue saying that they're not the, you know. Oh, my God. You look at those guys. Like, those guys all in the National Hockey League were all stars.

Some of them have been captains on their teams for a long long time um you know it was just a phenomenal group of young men that were great players that became a real close bond we kept things tight just amongst the team as far as outside uh distractions and uh full marks to everybody for doing that like it was it was a huge commitment by everybody but those kids dialed in and you know to this day you know that that group of players was very unique and was a phenomenal group and and that was the year sydney got dropped like sydney sydney was 17 that year but him and patrice set the tone on how proxies had to be like those guys they treated every practice like it was a game like it was unbelievable so it made of course those guys being such you know phenomenal players at that age it really pushed everybody else to a different

level too right so as a as a coach it wasn't a hard team to coach in that sense it was just it was just getting everyone to check their egos at the door and let's just become this type of team and i think we only gave up six goals or whatever it was the whole tournament scored 40 some and then next year we only had one guy cam barker came back in 06 we had to start with a whole new group and we we won again. Unbelievable. Well, Brent, I mean, listen, we said we could do this for a while. We've kept you long enough. We'd love to do round two. Army said you have a

beautiful place on Lake Sylvan. Maybe we'll just invite ourselves over sometime when we go to the studio. I love to have you guys. Hey, awesome. I listen to you guys often and I really, really enjoy it. No, this was a blast for us. It was a pleasure. Hey, Brent, you sold enough mini sticks so you get a place in the lake, eh?

Yeah, they're hanging up in my man cave, some of them. Well, we thank you once again and that was one of our top interviews. So have a great one. Good luck the rest of the year. Thanks a million, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you so much, Brent. Appreciate you listening. Take care, guys. Take care. Once again, luck the rest of the year thanks a million guys appreciate it thank you so much brent appreciate the list take care guys take care once again big thanks to brent setter for jumping on with us man

just an unreal interview some incredible stories and hopefully you enjoyed it again or for the first time if you missed it the first time well at labatt they don't care if you're good or bad at most things in life they only care if you're good at beer being yourself and not pretending to be someone you're not and if you are yeah they're good with you only care if you're good at beer, being yourself, and not pretending to be someone you're not. And if you are, eh, they're good with you. After all, if you choose Labatt Blue Light, you're good at the most important thing there is, beer. We already know you're good at watching hockey,

so be good at beer too with pristine Canadian Pilsner Labatt Blue Light. We're going to be working with Labatt Blue all year, and we've got some exciting content coming up, so grab a pack and enjoy. Season's going to be working with Labatt blue all year. We got some exciting content coming up. So grab a pack and enjoy season's going to be here before you know it. All right. Next up on the docket. Another, not to keep patting ourself on the back here,

but another hall of fame interview, Shane Corson, unreal, unreal interview, absolute legend for many teams. So again, instead of babbling, we're going to just send it over to the legend himself,

Shane Corson. It's a real pleasure to welcome our next guest to the show taken eighth overall by montreal in the 1984 draft this bruising left wing would go on to play nearly 1300 regular season and playoff games with montreal edmonton toronto st louis and d. In addition to 19 NHL seasons, he also represented Team Canada on the international stage, playing in the 1991 Canada Cup and the 1998 Olympics, among others. Thanks so much for joining us on the Spit and Chicklets podcast. Shane Corson, how's it going, my man? Thanks, R.A. Did my mom send that bio of mine to you guys over there or something?

Another $5, I'll give you another paragraph hey all right yeah i'm sure she sent it over you but i'm all i'm hoping for is that there's a hall of fame where they combine the off ice and the on ice i think then we'll all have a chance to be in the hall of fame that's what terry ryan told me he said nobody better off the ice than shane corson he was he he gave me like 10 voice memos about you yeah tr is a beauty uh hey not much i can say about tr i think he's done it all and i think it's all from his dad to be honest i spent a few nights with him and out east and they're they're a lot of fun i'll tell you i don't remember any of them but they were good i think oh he'll remember he'll tell you too oh i

don't remember but he does i know he calls me the next morning says oh do you remember doing this this this i go no then don't tell me i don't want to hear it don't tell me anything i don't want to hear any of it biz he mentioned we could we could be in the hall of fame you could you could even dj there dude they'd let you sort of sneak in be like that fifth liner in the hall i would have uh i would have liked to have dj and i'm skipping forward here because we were going to stay there for later but he told me you ended up opening up your own restaurant in montreal when you were there called shane's yeah and i actually met a few of the guys that worked there at the time who ended up becoming famous one of them jeremy charles who was a chef there yeah and then uh sam roberts yeah great great kids man sammy and and uh charles have seen quite a thing quite a

few things go on in mont, I'll tell you. But I don't know. My buddy, actually, it was a buddy of mine that I grew up with in Barrie, Ontario, was a beautician too. And he wanted to open a restaurant bar. And I'm going, oh, my God, just what I need, another bar in Montreal that I can go to. And it's free, boys. So we opened her up and we had a lot of fun.

But I'll tell you what, it was a lot of fun, good place to be. And those two guys you mentioned, they were super people. And it couldn't have happened to two better guys. They were great kids, worked hard. And you love to see good people and hard workers become successful. And both those guys did that. Was Sam Roberts playing at the time? Would he play live music there?

Yeah. He played some live music at the restaurant bar, more of a bar, to be honest with you. And he'd take off to do some shows, like live shows. And we'd all go watch and support him he was just amazing person down to earth and incredible incredibly talented unbelievable biz sorry if people don't know are they musicians because i'm not i'm not i'll let course take that over yeah sam sam's a big musician here in canada he's done real well for himself and jeremy's a big chef jeremy actually was on I believe and uh he's he's he's big out here

and in Canada and out east especially but you just you just gave him their start you just got you just got him in the door Shane buddy yeah I gave him the start all right but uh they they seen a lot of a lot of they had a lot of fun let me tell you that they've seen a lot of things and a lot of fun time just while they were there so it was a show for them while they were working there every night it was like canadians got talent and uh you know playing for all the the habs guys just pissed drunk but giving them the x's but uh as far as sam roberts is concerned like yeah he's like you know up there as one of the better artists in all of canada we have a lot of american listeners but but check him out and and as far as far as jeremy charles is concerned like anthony bourdain went i believe to newfoundland spent some time with him there and interviewed him and and uh

you know all the cuisine that comes from there so it was uh you know he's he's big time he's an incredible guy and like i said the biggest thing for me and more importantly is being good people and both of them are great great great people so it was nice seeing him be so successful and do so well in in life. Yeah, I've been out east quite a few times doing different charity events and spent a lot of time with TR and Jeremy. Like I said, we have a lot of good times. I don't remember a lot of it, but I'm sure it was fun. What was your nickname with the boys throughout your career?

I had a few of them, to be honest with you. One was Hammer, and we won't say why. Oh, what a legendary nickname. The only other Hammer I know, I think guys called Sheldon Surrey Hammer. When you're called Hammer, you got a lot of things going for you. No pigeons are called Hammer. Surrey, eh? Sheldon was my roommate when we played together in Montreal.

Can you picture that, roommate? Oh, shit. How about that tandem? Wow, so that was right when he came into the league, or was that with Jersey? When he left Jersey, he came to Montreal, and we were roommates for about a year, and that was enough for me. Was he, like, getting 20 goals, 25 goals right away in Montreal,

or was that taking him a little while to get that offense? What are we talking? On ice. On ice. On ice, I would have said 150 games. he's the gretzky of off ice yeah yeah that's what i meant uh it took him it took him some time i think i think he started doing that more especially in edmonton right yeah but anyways he was just incredible on the ice and off the ice so and he was a great roommate awesome roommate uh obviously one of the best looking guys in the league i'll tell you that he did well for himself but he was a he was a great roommate, awesome roommate, obviously one of the best-looking guys in the league, I'll tell you that.

He did well for himself. He was a gem, good hockey player, good teammate, and even a better roommate. Shane, Biz mentioned the restaurant in Montreal, but we've got to go way, way, way back to when you were a kid. Your family owned a family restaurant that you worked at. Is that basically where your work ethic came from and stuck with you through your whole career? Yeah, I mean, my parents worked so hard. They're the reason why I got to NHL and made it to where I got to.

Obviously, they sacrificed a lot and put a lot of hard work in. But, yeah, we had a mom's pantry. It was called in Barry. We had it for years. My dad died at 45, but my mom and my sister continued on running it. We just sold it about probably 12 years ago, 13 years ago. Somebody that worked at a restaurant bought it from us, actually. And, yeah, I mean, that's something my dad and my mom taught me all along is be a good person, be humble, and work hard.

And if you want to be successful in life, you've got to work at it, whatever you do, whether it's a hockey player, police officer, lawyer, doctor, whatever you want to be, you've got to work at it. So, yeah, I washed dishes there and had some fun there. It lasted about two weeks, I think, though, the first time my dad fired me out of the kitchen because you have the spray thing to wash the dishes off and me and my buddy that my goal to actually was my best friend growing up now he was a goaltender with our team we were screwing around fucking around the kitchen and my dad coming to caught us and well can't really say it nowadays a little different but he gave me a kick in the ass and told me to get out you're fired and I got hired back the next day by my mom though so it was all good she was the boss of the house but i mean yeah that's where i you know they taught me to work hard and i thank them for that that's

for sure there's uh yeah there's no substitute there but when you sold it did they keep the same name is it still the restaurant with same name or they change everything now they kept it was called uh mom's pantry so original mom's mom's pantry they're still there i think actually i just heard that it got sold again and we're doing some renovations so i'm not sure if the the name's going to change but that just happened a couple months ago so it was pretty cool we have a lot of great memories there every friday night my dad would fill up the salad bar and and with beer and wine and stuff and we'd have a lot of family parties there and friends and family come over and we'd have a great time so a lot of a lot of great memories there are a few scraps outside

in the parking lot a few times too so they're legendary we're my my dad and his uncle and my uncles his brothers are well known and buried for that so we had a few of those nights too it was good well i was gonna ask you about you growing up and playing were you do you always have a chip on your shoulder as far you know scrapping on the ice and i know i know i've heard a few stories of you scrapping off the ice as well yeah I've had a few I've always played with a chip on my shoulder to be honest you growing up I was one of the smaller guys in my team so I just played with a chip on my shoulder and everybody said I was too small to ever to ever make it to the NHL or get to even the OHL and and I always tell my son just getting the

OHL was a success for him and for myself and all you guys too you guys played well Wits is from different from US so it's different but i mean um yeah i played with chip mitchell i tried to play hard all the time tried to do the job defensively play offensively and and i was always a chippy player and a nasty player and i tried to play that way my whole life when did you start popping up on like scouts radars or you know travel teams that type of stuff i mean i i mean i think it was pretty early like to be honest in in my minor hockey career I played in Barrie just about 45 minutes north of Toronto we were we were a single a team actually back then Barrie's grown a lot it's a triple a team now but

started popping up probably more in Peewee I went to the Quebec major Peewee tournament and had a really good uh tournament there but I mean I again we had a really good team our team was incredible I played the same guys my whole life. Sean Dean and Brian Seward were my wingers and they were incredible hockey players. So they helped me a lot. But so I think I started popping up on their radar and then it just went from there. But I was lucky enough to have great coaching

and great teammates all the way through it. So yeah, it was pretty cool. It was so far back. I didn't even realize Brantford had an OHL team. Thanks, Vince. I know I'm old, buddy, but I realize Brantford had an OHL team. Thanks, Vince. I know I'm old, buddy, but I'm not that old, but I appreciate it. Yeah, Brantford. Brantford was fun.

Yeah, what was that experience like? And did the team end up moving, or did you just get traded after that first year? No, no, I played for the same junior team my whole career. I was drafted by Brantford, and after the first year, our owner moved us to Hamilton, Jack Robla, our owner. He owned a bunch of gas stations, sunny gas stations. Great person, great owner. But I just wasn't working at Brantford, which is too bad.

It's a great hockey town, Gretzky's hometown, and a lot of great people there. But we moved to Hamilton. But, I mean, Dave Draper drafted me. He was my GM and coach for my first year and a half. Amazing person. But the experience there was good, except for my first couple days days in branford in my rookie

camp i uh i showed up in a in a camaro new camaro right and a few of the guys i guess a few of the guys didn't i had the dice on the mirror and everything i don't know what i was doing oh i didn't have the dice i'm kidding you were gonna kill me yourself, weren't you? Like days to confuse shit. He had a paddle. So I show up in this car, and first day of training camp, I come out. It's a hot August day because we're playing, you know, training camp in junior hockey in Ontario was in August. And sure enough, there's a big shit in the hood of my car. And it was Bob Probert and Todd Francis.

And everybody knows Bob Probertbert and franny was another nails guy was drafted with montreal canadiens the second round but never made he had an eye injury never got the chance to play but yeah they decided that i was a cocky young rookie and deserved to be brought down a few notches and they probably were right so they shit the hood of my car it was it wasn't just sitting there it was melting down the front of my hood and i'm thinking to myself i'm gonna get i'm gonna go to whoever did this right so I'm like running around saying who the fuck did this I want to kill them right and somebody goes it was Proby and I went that's okay that's all good it's all good I'll clean up myself

you missed the spot that's what Proby and Franny was and they end up being my line mates Proby was my left winger for a year and a half and Franny was as tough as Proby was but never made it because he had an eye injury he was my right winger so i was pretty lucky so i mean they took care of me for the next year and a half until probie got traded this suit but yeah i he was there saying okay you missed that spot you missed that spot but yeah i had to drive him around for the next six months so he's like actually the camaro's mine now that's right go get it washed and it's mine now i claimed it by shitting on it. Exactly.

Like a dog pisses on a tree. They shit on my car. They said it's mine now. And I didn't argue with him. I drove him everywhere he wanted to. They made you fill up the gas tank too. Every time. Buddy,

everything. Yeah. I was under their control. That's such a good story. Fucking. Oh man. Did you get a chance to meet Walter Gretzky while you were there? Yeah. I actually, I met, I met Walter. I became really good friends with gretz wayne gretzky uh he was a buddy of

mine i got to play with him in the 91 canada cup we were line mates in the canada cup him and steve larmer were my line mates uh from day one we actually that's the year you had 60 guys coming to camp and try out and i was lucky enough for something beyond his line from day one so i kind of knew that i might have a chance but i didn't expect to make it to be honest didn't really even want to go I didn't thought I didn't think I belonged but my dad talked me to go on for the experience really yeah talked me to go for the experience and I ended up making the team and playing with Gretzky and uh shit I remember going into the room and seeing the lineup and I went oh my god I'm playing with Gretzky and Larimer and Larimer's one of the most underrated players I've ever played with my

entire life yeah nicest person oh greatest roommate line he's my roommate in the Canada Cup but do it all kill penalties playing the power play but I mean I mean in the first training camp the first practice the first actually scrimmage Gretz sets me up with a wide open net and what do I do I heal it like I need to be four or five feet from that to put in the open net to be honest I was about 10 I healed it in the accord I'm going oh my god I'm off his line for sure I'm done i'm cut and gretzky came over being who he is and just came over and said you know what of course don't worry about it you'll get lots more of those but he was just an incredible guy so during that time i got to know walter really well mr gretzky uh he's just an amazing person i'm telling you it's nicest person most humble guy

and never said no to a fan for a picture or an autograph then i got to spend a lot of time with him after hockey we used to go down to gretzky's fantasy camp in out in Vegas which was actually started Phoenix and then it moved to Vegas and I got to spend a lot of time with him and it was just it was an honor for me and like I learned so much and had so much respect for him it was just it was incredible to spend time with that that person and uh and not to say Vegas wasn't a bad spot to be for seven days and it all paid for and have some fun with the Gretzky family and the rest of his buddies, right? It was a pretty good time.

So it's funny because you say Steve Larmer, and sometimes if you go on HockeyDB, Steve Larmer's a name that if you check out his stats, you'll be blown away. You're like, what? He did that in the NHL? So like an all-time great that doesn't get talked about much, but you talk about like not wanting to go and like actually not thinking you belong. And nowadays I feel like so many younger players are just programmed to

say like, I'm as confident as I can be. I think I'm as good as anyone else. Whereas maybe a little different back in your time where you're like, dude, I don't know if I have it. Yeah, no, you're right. For sure. I think times have changed for the good and the bad, I'll be honest. I mean, there's some kids that it's okay to be confident, but to be cocky, it's not so good. I think nowadays there's a little bit more cockiness at times that I don't like to see in the game, but that's part of it,

and that's the world we live in. For sure, there was a lot of guys that played with a little bit less confidence. And, you know, we all know confidence is a big thing in life. You've got to be confident or you're not going to be successful either. But you do have your times where you're not confident. And when things are rolling really good and you know we all know confidence is a big thing in life you got to be confident you're not going to be successful either but you do have your times where you're not confident and when things are rolling really good you have all kinds of confidence so I definitely think that that's part of the game that's changed and you're right I think they've programmed that into kids and I think uh being a little bit you know sometimes when people are hard on you I've had coaches were hard on me through my career and sometimes ruins that and you don't have the

confidence you should have moving on and we all know we've had coaches where they put you in situations to be successful and and coaches put you in situations that you're not successful so there's so many things that depend on confidence and doing well and being and and believing in yourself and I think that nowadays the kids at times can be a little bit too too confident saying cocky but I like to see the confidence and I love to see people that are confident because it's very important especially for young kids i have four young kids myself and i want to be as calm as possible just don't go overboard and be cocky it's it's not something that i like yeah i'd say it's a it's a pretty fine line because yeah you want to have a little confidence in life but you don't want to be a cocky bastard i want to go back to stevie llama

for a second how many packs of gum did that guy have in his stall every time you saw that guy he was chomping on gum like a madman never never mind packs of gum buddy packs of cigarettes i room with him in the canada cup i room with him in the canada cup and every morning i get up it's like a smoke show in there he'd be having a cigarette coffee in 91 canada cup and i i had to i had i called my parents and i said mom dad you gotta come down to toronto get a room at the west here i can't i can't stay in this room with alarms. But he chewed more gum than any human being I've ever seen. And more – other than Guy Lafleur, he smoked more cigarettes than anybody

I've ever seen. And the way he played was incredible because he – like I said, and Witt said it, man, the guy's numbers are amazing. But he wasn't just an offensive player. He played defensively. He did it all. He killed penalties, played in the power play. And you know what? There's tough – and he was tough. He did it all. He killed penalties, played in the power play. And you know what?

There's tough. And he was tough. He was tough on the puck. He didn't have to fight and drop his gloves. There was other guys who could do that for him on his teams. But he was strong on the puck, tough in the corners, tough in the front of the net, and just an incredible human being. But, yeah, he had – they replaced – they put at least two or three

packs of gum in his stall every between every intermission and every intermission for sure it was crazy but and the cigarettes trust me i was in the room i couldn't even see how you could cut it with razor blades that there was so much smoke in there uh god those were the days uh we were going to go back to the ohl for a second we were told that you had a little uh brawl on the side of the road uh during your ohl career do you want to fill us in on that? The hammer. The hammer. There's a lot of grease balls in the hammer.

I'm not surprised you ended up getting one on the side of the road. Let me tell you. I know where you're from, Busy. I mean, I love playing in Hamilton, and I love old school. I mean, I grew up in a small town. It was 27,000 people when I left. It's 125 now. But, I mean, I could tell you all kinds of brawl stories with my family and the Lawson family in my hometown but yeah this one was this one was pretty crazy I mean again we were driving in my car with Todd Franny another Todd Francis the

right winger Franny we called him was driving the car and Gary McColgan was in the car with us he was in the back seat we called him cheesy he was a gold scorer never made it but we're driving along and all of a sudden somebody's giving us the high beams blah blah blah boom boom boom honking the horn on us pulls up his side he's giving us the finger we're looking at this guy's one guy in a car we're thinking what's this guy doing man so guys tell him to pull over pull over pull over so we pull over wrong door we're thinking this is great like there's three of us there's one of him so we pull over he pulls it we pull into a parking plaza i'll never forget it we pull in, I jump out, Franny jumps out and Gary McColgan just sits in the back seat, just sits there. He's kind of watching. Right.

And I'm thinking, okay, what's he doing? Whatever. There's two of us still, we got this guy and he wasn't a big, big guy, but he was thick as anything. And I'm thinking, Oh my God. Okay. So I kind of square off with him first and we're going out and I'm hitting him with everything I got. He's just looking at me like, what do you got? Is this all you got? And then he, and he's looking around and all of a do you got this is all you got and then he's looking around and all of a sudden I said Franny get in here I'm getting excited I kicked him right in the balls and he doesn't even fucking budge it's like oh my god he's got still balls too right

holy shit what's happening here like this guy I'm looking I'm looking at Franny like thinking Franny get in here with me help me out right so Franny gives him everything he's got nails him the guy just turns looks and goes when I'm done with him i'm gonna kill you and all of a sudden i see cheesy i look over i'm thinking cheesy get out of the car he puts his window down about three inches and looks hey boys you need any help out there puts the window back up the goal scorer puts the window back up the goal scorer puts the window back up and after franny drills the guy the guy starts chasing franny and franny's running on the car and i look at franny i'm yelling franny franny let's get in the fucking car and get out of here so we jump in the car

and we're gone we take off we said enough with this guy we had given everything we had and he didn't it didn't even put him on the ground he was who was this guy oh my so we jump in the car we jump in the car we're flying franny's flying we're terrified right we're thinking who is this guy so we're flying the car and there's the 401 it's a big highway up here in charlotte all of a sudden cheesy yells up goes holy fuck since when did the 401 have stoplights because we were so scared we were flying through the stoplights all the red lights so we get to practice the next day and we're starting to ask around there's a couple guys that played our team from hamilton ronnie ronnie bernacki uh mike barice all played in hamilton

and we're gonna we're gonna just fight with this guy uh last night blah blah blah and they go we heard the story this guy just got a gel for manslaughter no way he had dropped he was a he was a weight guy workout guy and i guess he had dropped some weights on a guy in the gym one time i guess he was he he was with a gang in hamilton you know bizzer come from there oh yeah it's fucking crazy eastenders and all those guys remember there was the one game called these centers i can't remember the another but he was involved in one of those gangs and i guess they had to teach a guy last they dropped the weight on his head and got man were you you were panicked about maybe running into him again or did like was he like out to get you was that kind of the end of it well there was rumors that

they were out to get us and we were terrified trust me uh witty because i'm telling you right now franny was one tough dude about 220 pounds and he could hit and we i i gave him everything i got and he didn't move and same with with franny and then we actually came back from a road trip and all our windows were smashed in and our tires were cut there he was there he was he got us back in another way because i don't the east ender yeah he did well biser knows that area that wasn't it wasn't a pretty area when at that time i wouldn't go i wouldn't even go to what was the it was called hess village i wouldn't even go there because you would hear about all the scraps that would be going on there. And, and man, that is,

that is pretty nutty that this guy was just buzzing around town, just looking for anybody who would go on the side of the road. That's like fucked up. The fact that you guys even pulled over is the more, the more fucked up thing is we actually pulled over and thought we were going to be okay with this. And then he chased us off or a street top hockey players. And he chased us down the street, two three little babies but yeah it was pretty

tough town it was an awesome place to play and there's there's there's many more stories like that trust me hey you're like hey probes you can keep my camaro but you got to come give me a little bit of help here in hamilton we had probie actually in hamilton for the first half a year and then we traded into sue which was great to do because we ended up having a brawl with him on a Sunday afternoon game, TV game and unfortunately Proby was on the other team but we had a pretty tough team anyways but we got into a couple with Proby

too when he was there. There was Proby and Troy Crowder and Dennis Vial was on our team, Kirk Thomas and we had a really tough team, Sammy Haiti, Johnny English. We weren't short on tough guys but uh the sunday afternoon game was like just a shit show i mean proby was on the suit at that time and it was a sunday afternoon game tv game on the sunday big deal and uh we end up getting into

a brawl with them our goalies are beating their goalies up on the bench there's fights everywhere on the ice the fight the fight must have went on for an hour and a half bill of forge was our coach at the time he actually coached in niagara falls after and he was really good to me when he's a tough tough coach but he was crazier than hudal and he had us so we were fighting for about an hour and a half but the funny part was it after it was all over and this is getting filmed like they filmed it all laforge was thrown out of the league he was thrown to the western hockey league but billy dines our our trainer god rest his soul is gone now uh he passed away he comes out in the ice with a shopping cart to pick all our hockey gear up and we're going oh my god like

this is really good for sunday afternoon hockey for all the young kids wanting to play hockey one day and there we are right from church there's our train there's our train right from church they don't let me in those places when i only go at christmas time and i have a tough time getting in there. You have to go through a metal detector when you go to church the one night a year. I can just picture this game on TV with you guys just scrapping in the train or just putting the gloves inside the shopping cart. Buddy, it was crazy.

And I'm telling you, when the gloves were going in the shopping cart and helmets, it was just like, oh, my God. Like, what just happened? But it was a crazy day. We like what what just happened but it was a crazy day we just had jovo on and he was telling the story about when they were playing sarnia i think it was the first round of playoffs and the player ended up going after him and then and then he got his helmet off and he had in his hands and he's beating him over the head with it and after the fight and the old windsor barn was was absolutely bananas and in the midst of that game

like a sarnia guy and the fan were playing tug of war with a stick but on the way off the ice i believe the last guy's last name was maxwell he just turns around and just double barrel fingered the crowd on the way out there was like three guys left on the bench for sarnia by the time the game was up and that that was just the way it was back then oh it was crazy i mean i watched that i watch you guys quite often as my kids do so i'm like it's an honor for me to be on with you guys and I love it my kids are so excited all their buddies but I actually watched that it was pretty crazy when he was trying to hit him with the helmet and uh talking with the Windsor Barn it was crazy man that place was nuts Kevin Kerr was there when I played he was a tough tough nut and a good little hockey player but speaking of Jovo let me tell you that's probably

one of the craziest moments of my my hockey career I made a lot of mistakes when I was playing and did a lot of crazy shit but I mean because Joe and I got Joe was playing for Vancouver was playing for Montreal at the time and we got it kind of got into it it was more of a scrum there's a bunch of guys in there and we couldn't really get each other we wanted to or maybe we didn't want to I don't know there was a little bit of respect there anyways until we started swinging our sticks at each other and I think I caught him on the head with the stick and got a five-minute major and he might have caught me with a pretty good two-hander across the knee we get uh thrown in the penalty box referees come over and they go oh they're gone we get five we're

gone and I don't know what happened I blacked out it was so and he had said something to me I don't know it was something like maybe over the line but that happened back in the day I lost my marbles went crazy he went to his restroom and i went off the ice and went into the hallway went right past my dress room back to the end hallway where all the media is and all the workers are back there security's back there i go flying down the back hallway pushing all the security guards out of the way tell them to get get the fuck out of my way they're going what are you doing right down to the hallway down to their dress room and into their dress room then I'm kind of blocked out at

this point so I'm just going bananas right and I'm actually so Todd Bertuzzi's hurt he's in the dress room when I get there and a trainer that played was our stick boy in Hamilton was the trainer Bernstein for the Vancouver Canucks so I get into the room I'm yelling and screaming I want to fight I'm in Vancouver's dress room I when I first came to to be honest boys I came to I looked down I'm standing on the Vancouver Canucks emblem in their dress room when I came to because I blacked out oh it was in their building it was in the Vancouver building I thought you were at the home team no I was in Vancouver walked right by the dress room, my dress room, down the hall, past all the security guards,

all the people in the back hallway to get to their hallway, to their dress room, went down their hallway, pushed the security guards out of the way, went into their room, and then Bertuzzi was there, not dressed. He was injured, and the trainer that knew me came running because everybody was screaming and going crazy and saying, what the hell's going on? And I'm in there yelling at Jovo trying to fight him.

And Todd goes enough's enough and Bernstein gets in. He's going on. And that's what I came to. And I'm standing on the emblem. And I remember going, what the fuck am I doing? And then I just had my helmet, my hand. I didn't know what to do. And I was kind of like, what the hell am I doing? So I threw my helmet at Jovo and then turned around and left and went back to my own room. Now, in these days now, boys, nowadays, you'd be suspended probably for life.

You'd be arrested. Oh, God. They probably gave you a beer on the way out back then. Well, the trainers on our team had a couple of ice-cold beers for you ready to go, so it was all good. I think I got suspended for, I don't know, four or five games, but it wasn't too bad. I needed a break anyway.

Like planes, trains, and automobiles. They're all like, you're going the wrong way. You're going to the wrong locker room. All right, speaking of planes, trains, and automobiles, I think I missed every one of those during my career. Hey, that's another story I heard. I heard you missed so many team flights. I missed a couple flights.

Let me tell you, I missed a couple flights. Not a lot, a couple flights. Maybe two or three buses. A couple dozen. Maybe a couple dozen., not a lot, a couple of flights, maybe two or three buses and maybe a couple of dozen, maybe late for a few, but I missed, I missed two flights. Actually I'll never, the one was in Montreal. It was an honest mistake. Actually. I, it was when the clocks had to change and all that stuff. And I didn't, I didn't change mine. I might've been out the night before.

I don't remember. Actually. I think I was actually, might've had a girlfriend of mine might've been married, at that time can't remember anyways i'm heading to the airport i got there i'm sitting there sitting there sitting there and then i got a call from my i think it was my wife and she goes you know you were supposed to uh move the the clocks back right you're you're an hour your flight's late and i went what if i ran to the fucking uh terminal into the gate i get to the gate and the fucking plane's backing out so i go to the people at the gate can you can you call the pilot tell him you know shane corson we're in montreal i thought you know they could call the pilot he could tell burns he did pilot would pull back up

they're only about 10 feet out well he did all that for me but the stewardess goes to burns he goes corson's at the gate he's waiting he wants to see can we pull back in 10 feet to get him he goes fucking leave him there. They left me there. I had to get my own way. The better one, though, was when we were in Edmonton. And thank God. So we're at Brent Gilchrist is getting married. So we have his bachelor party in Edmonton at one of the bars.

One of our friends owned a bar there in town. And we got pretty banged up that night. And I set my alarm when I got home. I thought I set it properly. But I set it for p.m instead of a.m and I remember waking up out of the like cold sweat and hung over and I look at my watch and I go holy shit look at the alarm alarm didn't go out oh my god so I was late I was gonna be late I knew it but I thought if I could maybe get there in time and just get on the last

minute so I'm running out of the the econo I got my buddies live with me at time I go maldog maldog the goalie the goalie again he goes to me i go you got to get me to the airport you got to get me there so he's raced me there i got my shirt undone ties all over the place i'm sweating i'm thinking oh my god i'm i'm getting traded from edmonton i was playing at edmonton at the time i'm thinking oh my god i gotta get to edmonton airport i get out there i'm running in i'm thinking oh shit who do i see is peter clement and cedeno seager walking down the fucking hallway too and i'm thinking oh my fucking lord i'm not the only guy and it even gets better i'm thinking thank god i'm with two other guys so we go through

security we get to the gate and there's six other guys sitting there at the gate waiting to get we were like oh my god there's so it was like i think it was seven or eight two three i think there's like seven or eight of us that missed the flight. We had to get our own flight. We were playing in Buffalo. We were going to Buffalo. So we had to get our own flight, fly to Toronto. We got a van to take us from Toronto to Buffalo,

and we played the next night. You know, the crazy thing is the media found out, obviously, about everything. Everybody talked about everything, blah, blah, blah. Slots, all he said to us is, you win the next two games. We were playing Buffalo and Boston. You win the next two games, and it's forgotten about. And Slots was really cool that way.

And sure enough, we had two of our best games that year, which we weren't having a great season. My years in Edmonton were a little tough. We won both games, and nothing happened to any of us. And the guy at Steg, it was Brent Gilchrist, made it to the plane. It was on the plane, puking his brains out in the toilet. But there was seven or eight of us that didn't make the flight. Not a free sight.

We don't want to jump to Edmonton quite yet. I got to go back to Montreal when you first broke into the league, Shane. That's when I first started watching you back in the mid-'80s. You were an eighth overall pick. Was that a surprise to you about where you expected to go? What were your expectations before the draft? Well, I was actually – on draft day, I was ranked fifth overall and had a bit of a brawl again a lot of fighting and

drinking and missing planes and shit like that but we had a little bit we had a hammer hammer and uh yeah exactly i was thinking that too uh we had a little bit of a brawl with another family there was another family in barry we were the course of family there was a loss in family and we got into a bit of a fight with him so i ended up getting in some trouble with the law and stuff like that so it kind of knocked me down a few notches to the uh but i ended up getting and we had met montreal the night before my dad my dad wasn't a big montreal canadiens fan he was a big leaf fan growing up and uh they had met with him and they had told me they're gonna take me fifth and uh they actually ended up taking peter sabota who was from chuckels of act they had snuck him into the country and dropped him

fifth and that made my dad even more pissed off and hated them even more but they ended up taking Peter Sabota, who was from Czechoslovakia. They had snuck him into the country and drafted him fifth, and that made my dad even more pissed off and hated him even more. But they ended up making a trade and picked me eighth overall anyways, even though the trouble in Bury that summer. But, yeah, it was pretty cool. I mean, I was just happy to get drafted, to be honest. I just wanted to get the opportunity to play him and reach my goals and dreams of playing in the NHL.

And, I mean, I know so many guys that never got drafted and had great careers. And I know a lot of guys that got drafted in the first round. I played with two of my good buddies, both drafted by the same team, were drafted in the first round to the Alley of Kings and never made it. So, I mean, it doesn't really matter, but it was exciting to be drafted by the Canadians in the forum where the draft was held every year for a long time. Now it moves around.

So, yeah, it was pretty, pretty cool. And I'm kind of expected to go in the first round somewhere, but I was just happy to get drafted. And you had three games. Sorry. One sec. One sec. I got to go back. Part of that story. You say that your, your family, your family sounds like the old Doyles and Billy Madison. Did you have another, did you have another rival family in the town?

The Lawsons and you guys just like, yeah, that that was actually there was a Lawson family in the Murphy family and they were like cousins so it was like you guys just chucked them with all of them yeah we we yeah we there was a buck and dough they had a buck and dough that's what's that stag yeah they have a stag and a bachelorette together right so they headed out at an old farm and my sister dated one of the guys in the past and she ended up dating this guy roger bellagio was a first round pick of the pittsburgh yeah from welland yeah from welland ontario i became good friends with me dated my sister and they had this big plan to get us that they invited us to this big party and they had a plan to get us and they jumped bam bam we called him roger bellagio down the washroom and next thing you, the shit hit the fan.

My dad was down there trying to break it up, and they gave him a smack. And there was only five or six of us, a ton of us. So it was game on. We got into it at the farm, and they got the better of us probably. I mean, my dad's ear was half ripped off. My nose was broken. Bam Bam went to the hospital with a broken jaw. But we left there.

We fought our way out of there somehow. They chased us out of there. We got out of there and got in the car. Went back to the family restaurant. Going back to the restaurant where everything happened. And all the thinking went on. We got back there. And my dad said, fuck this.

And he called his two brothers. I had two uncles, Ivor and Peter. And they were two big, tough dudes. And he called them. He said, we're fucking going back. So they came over to the restaurant. We went back. And we got the better of them on the second half.

Holy shit. On the second half of the fight, we got the better of them. So they were the last in the Murphy family. They were well-known around town too. They were from the area. They weren't right from Barry. They were a small town just outside of Barry. So that kind of left a bit of a stain on some of the teams, I guess,

in the NHL. Hey, whoever didn't pick you family everyone should have wanted you the way you played it's like uh course and rules that's my new saying for you that was your family sons of anarchy over here just cruising around on the harleys that's a whole another that's another whole story boys we won't get into that one though yeah but hey you want to fight and rough and outie or what? Jesus Christ. You know what?

You know how it is, Biss. Oh, yeah. And everybody, we know how it is. I mean, family's family. You do and stick up for your family no matter what. Absolutely. I'll be honest. Something my dad taught me from a young kid, even being on the ice.

Don't start anything. Try not to start fights. It's not cool. Be the guy that finishes them and there's a quiet guy and you know my family were usually pretty good at that but i mean i know there's a lot of fight stories and it's it's a different world nowadays back in the day you could get away with doing that stuff and and and it would be a fist fight you might get a bloody nose but uh it's changing now there's knives and guns and shit like that and it's

not even worth it i tell my boy just go out and have a fun time somebody starts some shit and wants to be an asshole just leave go somewhere else with your buddies it's not worth it 10 years later don't matter shane no no don't matter don't matter shit now back then it was fun and it was all fun and games and they were the same type of people we were they were good people it was just two families that you know yeah didn't want to shit on each other have you guys been able to bury the hatchet since you know what um we tried it but then one of them stabbed each other the other one that's when the knives and guns came out no no we don't do that stuff uh yeah you know what i've ran them in the past and you know it's under water under the bridge man it happened we were all younger i mean i was 17 years old when it happened with me and uh you know like i said it's changed

the world's changed and i've changed a lot you know i i just love going out having fun and hanging with my buddies and telling stories and stuff like this and doing things like this that's why i enjoy these types of things especially this one's one of the best but we've we've uh we've rented each other and it's we like we get a good laugh about it they went on with their lives they have kids now and families too and we all know that things have changed and it was just a different world back then a few scraps of the driving too which, too, which was pretty fun. Outside of style. I was saying you had the three games at Montreal late in the 86 season.

Now, were the Black Aces a thing back then? Were you a Black Ace? How did that all play out during the playoffs for you, Shane? Yeah, I mean, I was lucky enough to play the first – I think I played three games the first 10 games and then had a meeting with Serge Savard, who was GM at the time and he uh he was really good about it he said like what do you want to do do you want to stay here and he was honest with me he said you're not going to play every game and when you do play you might not play much right so

I kind of said it might probably be better for my development and my agent thought the same thing and my parents thought the same thing and Serge himself actually thought the same thing that go back to junior hockey get the opportunity to play in the world the world junior championships again the world junior championships were held in hamilton so it's going to be fun so i just thought it was better for my development to go and and play the the season in junior hockey playing the world championships and get some confidence as we talked about confidence earlier and uh and then actually the funny thing is uh andre budra who was our assistant gm that uh in montreal at the time he actually met me in London and came down me down

with me and met with me and talked to me so we're gonna have you come up in the playoffs and he didn't tell me if I was gonna play or how much I was gonna play and had a plane ticket with me for me and everything at the time you know technology and all that stuff was different at the time and I was all pumped up and excited because our junior team wasn't going to make the playoffs and they had asked me if I wanted to be traded to a contender and I said I'd just rather just finish the season with my team I've been with them for three years and, and, and fight. We weren't totally out of it, but it was going to be a slim chance. I didn't want to quit on my team or my teammates and the organization

and to the owner. He was so good. So I ended up staying there and we didn't make the playoffs, but the unfortunate thing is I got hurt. The last game of the season, actually, I tore up my knee and my ankle was in a cast up to my hip. So I ended up actually going up there, but not getting the opportunity to even play till late um in the finals against Calgary I actually got to go on the ice a couple times with the Black Aces which it was so much fun just being around that team and

watching what they did and how hard they had to work and what they had to go through and how they had to get you know some luck and Patrick obviously played unbelievable and their team played great and uh just to be around that atmosphere and then just to see the party and be a part of the party at the Stanley Cup party in the city of Montreal like it was just it was incredible and saying it's not the same as not being you know bleeding and sweating with your teammates and being a part of it had your name in the cup but it was still pretty cool to be around those guys and see how hard they work to get that Stanley Cup now I want to go to your first camp you, you find yourself in this fabled locker room, probably the most famous locker room in hockey, no doubt.

All these veterans that are basically connective tissue to the greatest teams ever, the 70s Canadians. Yeah. Are you like space cadet? Like, is your head spinning? What's your reaction to all this being, you know, in a room with Larry Robinson and Guy Cabanel and Bob Gainey all of a sudden? Yeah, I mean, like I said, I wasn't a Montreal Canadian fan,

but I always had respect for their organization and the history they had and their players. But to actually go on and be in the same dressing room, I remember the first day I walked into training camp, my first training camp, and I walked in the dressing room. There's Guy Lafleur sitting there dressed in all black. He loved black. He had black cars, black clothes, everything, right?

And sitting there smoking a cigarette in the middle of the dressing room at the Montreal Forum. I was like, oh, my God. Black lungs. god the black lungs too but the guy could skate forever but I mean those guys treated me with so much respect I learned so much from them not just as hockey players as people and human beings they were so good to the fans they never said no about an autograph or a picture and they just had so much respect for the game and and so good to their teammates and to have guys like that around like Jean Jean Beliveau, Rocket Bichard, Guy Lafleur, Yvon Cornouaille, Lambert, and then you mentioned the two guys.

Then those guys I didn't really play with. I was with Guy Lafleur for a few training camps. But Larry Robinson and Bob Ganey were two of the greatest people I met in hockey and two of the greatest leaders. And they were two totally different people. Bob was more even keeled, straight-laced, and Larry was more of aeled straight laced and there was more of a fun guy telling jokes and more of a vocal guy but to have those two types of guys around and be a part of that organization at that time was just incredible and like I said they taught me a lot about uh the off ice thing and and I tell you what that organization they they they wanted you to have

fun too often as long as you showed up at the rink and worked hard at practice they didn't mind you having a good time and trust me boys I had a really good time when I was in Montreal, and it's well documented. But those guys were incredible. Well, you bring that up, and I can't imagine, like, you go from Hamilton, and you don't have a ton of money, and you're playing junior hockey, and all of a sudden, you're in Montreal Canadiens, where you can't go anywhere in the town.

Good-looking guy. You're crushing it. Like, I can't imagine how hard it was to really reel yourself in. No, seriously. You're a young kid. It's like, I don't know. You're so right, man. I appreciate that because that's what people don't understand, man. I went, I came from barrier when I left barrier was like I said, 25, 27,000 people. I didn't have a lot of money.

My parents didn't have a lot of money. They were great to us and they did what they could for us. But you know, all of a sudden I'm making like a hundred grand, which is a lot of money my parents didn't have a lot of money they were great to us and they did what they could for us but you know all of a sudden I'm making like a hundred grand which is a lot of money my parents never made that uh even close to that and in a city like Montreal and being a young guy and we had a lot of young guys in the team too there was a lot of guys that came in that at that time there was you know Chelios was there and Momaso and Rishay and Cortnell and Yurki Lume and Mike Keane and Brent Gilchrist. And I mean, there's so many guys, great guys.

We had so much fun, but it was hard. I mean, I'd find myself sitting in my apartment. I'm going like, every night you had somewhere to go in Montreal. It was, you know, Lacsion on Sunday night. There was Bourbon Street on Monday night. I could name them all. Sir Winston Churchill's any time of the week. Thursdays, you know them all.

Stanley Street, the Chez Paris. Chez Paris, Monday through Friday, through Saturday, Sunday. Every day, a free buffet, man. I was at the free buffet every year. I hate to say it, every day it was free, so I went there, right? But it was so hard. You find yourself sitting there as a young guy and nothing else to do, and you get bored. And there were more places.

$400 breakfast. That's right. No, they were free. The buffets were free. That's why I went there. Yeah, yeah, sure. We know. We know where the lap dances were. Okay, they were free. The buffets were free. That's why I went. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. We know.

Okay. You got me more than all. I went, I was there. You got it. I got to tell you one that's busy. Oh, go ahead. This is okay. This is going back. I got to tell you this story, boys. I mean, it's brutal, but I did it. I got my check from the Montreal Canadiens and I took it and cashed it at Chez Perri. Can you imagine that? I went up to the bar theater. I had to sign it off. I think I had to give them a percentage and I cashed my check.

You're too weaker or you're signing bonus? By too weaker. Can you imagine if they knew this is their first round or actually their check at Che day for a rebut? I mean, you're right, Wade. It was such a hard time.

And we had such a great group of guys, young guys. It was hard to contain yourself. But we tried our best. You know how the ATM hammers you at the strip club. Oh, yeah. Imagine the money they take out to cash a check. Yeah. That was actually the Canadian bank back then because it was happening so much.

You know, they got the stamp on the back. It's like, oh, no, we're used to this. Every team. Of course, we got to do this in person. We're coming up to Toronto for some golf this summer. I mean, we're not done yet, but I'm just saying that already. Well, I would love to, boys. I mean, like I said, I get down to Boston a lot, and I'm being honest, just saying that already well I would love to boys I mean I like I said I

I get down to Boston a lot and I I'm being honest I actually earned these two hats somehow I know that they were very expensive hats for me but I come down to Boston watch my daughter plays at Boston College plays hockey down there and I love Boston I mean almost was almost a Bruin at one point too all right I was almost a Bruin really when when did that almost happen Pat Burns was the coach in Boston. He was my favorite coach. We have a lot of good stories, good and bad stories, actually. He was like a father figure to me. He would kick me in the ass when I needed it and gave me a hug when I needed it.

He tried to trade for me when he was in Boston and Toronto. I think it would have been pretty cool to play for the Bruins. It was kind of my style and a great city. I just love the city now. I've got to know it better in the last four years because Will has been down there playing hockey. I get down there quite a bit so whether we do another podcast because there's a lot of stories boys lots we're doing another one we'll go we'll go over them together one time and then we can talk about what we really can talk about but i'd love to come down

there and hang out with you guys and have a few cocktails with you guys a few pink whitneys and a few good sundays my son started a company too so i gotta oh nice shout that out good sunday good sunday i gotta pump him up because he's starting like you did. Hey. You got to start somewhere, right? We'll drop some Pink Whitney nips in that. It'd be perfect. Well, I was going to say, I like cuckoo juice, right?

So I was thinking there's a good mix because cuckoo juice is really good. It gets you going pretty quickly and gives you a really good buzz. I don't even know what that is. I need to get into that. I think it's a cuckoo man named hammer that knows about the cuckoo cuckoo juice it's a little bit of a mix you can mix wherever you want they're busy but i was thinking pink whitney and the good sunny mixed together because good sunny is more like a seltzer right so it's more of a low calorie low sugar and low alcohol drink so

you could add the pink whitney to it and have really good really good cuckoo juice it's good for uh it's good for hangover days and golf days to be honest with you boys we'll call it the whitney to it and have really good really good cuckoo juice it's good for uh it's good for hangover days and golf days to be honest with you boys we'll call it the whitney one-timer um hold on hey well go ahead no no you go ahead sorry buddy okay so there's a couple ways i want to talk about pat burns but before that your daughter plays college hockey um does it concern you that they're unable right now to figure out the the pro level and and all the you know have you have you like dive into all the you know have you have you like to dive into that at all like have you like done any research as to like what might be happening because i would imagine she has aspirations to play professional hockey and be

paid a decent wage to do so yeah i mean that's right women's hockey's come such a long way i actually did a thing today with sammy joe small the goaltender from canada here won a bunch of gold medals and a great person and she's a big advocator for for women's hockey and bit a role model for a lot of the girls coming up through hockey in canada especially right and then amanda kessel and then you know will play with keller uh who's in uh non-believable defense but from the u.s and play with keller and new kirk and a bunch of girls that played for boston college women they're great role models but yeah i i mean it's come a long ways but it's got it's got to go a lot further and I think it's got to be a lot more fair and I love to see women's hockey on TV and I like to see

them get paid a fair fair wage I mean concerns of my daughter she's a good enough player if she wants to play I just don't know if that's she has aspirations to do that or not I mean you know how it is sometimes you go through seasons where you had a bit of a tough season and you know you get off off of the game a bit or something in life and you don't want to do it but she had a great season this year her team had a great year and you know I'll support her whatever she wants to do if she wants to move on and play uh professional girls hockey uh I'd love her to do that because I think it teaches a lot of life lessons and it's a great sport it keeps in shape and and uh if they can make a decent fair uh wage at doing it why wouldn't they and I think they deserve it and I hope that these girls,

the Olympic girls keep pushing hard from both Canada and the U.S. to see them get what they deserve, the girls' hockey. I think the girls' hockey is great hockey. I love it. I've watched it since Willow was 10. She's 21 now, and I think it's just a great sport and a great hockey. You know, they're both different. There's pluses to girls' hockey, there's pluses to guys,

and there's differences for sure, but I think they definitely deserve deserve more and i think this is at the tip of the iceberg and i think they're working on it and they'll keep keep doing that here here i agree shane the the speed and the skill on display we put while we had an event a few weeks ago at basto and the young ladies they're just so incredible the skill and speed on display is so different than it was 30 years ago uh i again i got to revert back to your first year in Montreal, your first training camp. You take on John Kodak, who was probably one of the toughest guys in the league back then.

I mean, I know you fought in junior, but I don't know if you had a fighting label. How did that all come about? And it kind of earned you some respect in the locker room. Did you like fighting? What was your take on all that as you started out? Well, from all the stories off the ice guys i think i didn't mind it but i mean i was afraid every time i got i was afraid every time i got into a fight i mean there's

something wrong with if you're not afraid when you're getting into a fight and that was part of you know uh so i i came into montreal they had just won the stanley cup as we spoke and i was there but i didn't get to play they had a great team great group of guys and i just felt that i need to do something to get noticed in training camp and stand out a little bit. And I thought no better way than to try on Kordick, who was my agent, who I ended up rooming with my first year in Montreal, actually, and got to know him real well. God rest his soul, too.

So I fought him in training camp and actually did pretty good. I mean, I was out of fear. I mean, I was terrified. I knew I wanted to do it and I was going to do it, but I was terrified. But I ended up doing pretty good um and I was out of fear I mean I was terrified I knew I wanted to do it I was going to do it but I was terrified but I ended up doing pretty good and thank god for Chris Allen because Knuckles uh was really good to me when I came into the league and took me under his wing and kind of taught me a little bit more about fighting I was just all out just throw as many punches I could as quick as I could and hopefully hit him more than he hit me and that didn't work

at the next level and thank god he had taught me a few things before I fought Johnny because I probably would have got knocked on my ass or knocked out so i had a little bit of a lesson from him not only that i actually did okay i wouldn't say i won i said it was a tie but johnny was used to you know he thought he was going to pummel me and give kick the shit out of me right and i did pretty good but so he wanted to fight me again and nox came over and said you're not fighting him again johnny that's our first round rounder. Stay away from him. So I was pretty lucky. And, you know, everybody respected Knuckles Nyland. I mean, the guy did it for a long time and was a really tough guy

and was really good to his teammates and did everything. So Johnny stayed away from me for the rest of training camp, and I'm so happy that it happened. I actually ended up fighting him in Quebec, though. He played for Quebec, and I guess he never forgot it. And I ended up fighting him in Quebec, and it didn't go so well as the first one did I had a lot of bubble uh bumps on my head here like thinking oh my god

all these bumps in my head I can't even get my helmet back on so he didn't forget he didn't forget was that was Chellios doing uh the sauna trick back then when he was going out and boozing did you guys have a sauna in the room at that point was saunas even created back then when he was going out and boozing did you guys have a sauna in the room at that point wasana's even created back then no they we're not that old bizzare he was he was he was doing it man i'll tell you right now he we were good friends uh china he was just an amazing person great teammate and we were tight really tight and uh he could go and he would stay out to the last uh the last drink was done and then we'd head home and but he'd be the first guy at the rink the next day and in the sauna and he'd be doing his sauna cold tub from back then he'd do it we didn't have a cold tub at that time we just had the sauna but he'd do the sauna he'd ride the bike in the

sauna do push-ups and sit-ups in the sauna and this would be before we even went on the ice for practice so that's how early he'd get here he was just a machine the guy's a machine on and off the ice and one of my closest friends friends off the ice he's just incredible dude so he's got even better better i'll tell you what with shelly though he's a good swimmer right him and suitor are really good swimmers i'll never forget the night we're at sir winston churchill's it's the first time i ever seen him swim the bar but he jumped up in the bar and swims down the bar and knocking everybody's drinks and glasses all over them oh my god and then they're suitor right behind them doing the same thing they were college buddies i guess they were good friends but yeah two beauticians and uh just great great great just to get the morale high just to just all of a sudden like you hear

all the glass breaking these guys are swimming across the bar i'm just yeah i'm just thinking oh my god here we go there's going to be another uh we're going to be out of this place real quick and they just left them they let him do his thing he had been there already and i'm sure he's done it before in front of them and they just let him do what he wanted to do he was a he was like a god montreal he was like a legend of montreal he loved him so he was allowed to do pretty much anything he wanted to do back in the day you know things have changed now with telephones and all this stuff you can't you can't do the things we did back in the day not a chance and i feel bad for the guys they don't have nearly as much fun as us that's for sure oh god no i wouldn't all i know is when i had an older player in your generation tell me

that with the no cell phones you just got home from the bar and you you checked and you just prayed that that that red light was blinking that you had a message like that's old school that's you know you can have fun but i i think the summer of summer of 92 you get traded uh from montreal to edmonton and for vincent danfus yeah now as a guy who got traded mid-season of a team who won the stanley cup in pittsburgh shout out chris kunitz did you have any chance when you got dealt that they would have had a chance to like go on and win the cup that next year i mean i would never count the canadians out especially with patrick waugh right patty waugh was just incredible he could win a championship all on his own he was that good

and he just seemed to play even better in the playoffs and the bruins fans have seen him for many years he could win hockey games on his own so i never counted them out but no i didn't i wasn't sure that they were that good good enough to win but i knew they were good but with patty like i said we never count them out and i mean getting traded was like I said I never watched I can't watch the Stanley I've never won a Stanley Cup so I can't watch guys carry the Stanley Cup around after the game like I just turn the TV off after the game's over right away I don't want to watch that and I mean I'm happy for all of them and I'm even happy for Vinny D'Amfus I mean he played his whole life wanting to win that Stanley Cup and worked hard he's a great player and I actually ended up playing

with Vinny when I went back to Montreal my second stint he's just a super guy a good teammate so I'm happiest can be for him that he won the cup but it was definitely really hard on me watching him carry the cup around but at the same time super happy for the organization super happy for all those guys in that teams I played for a lot of them and and they deserve it they worked hard and they were the best team that year and what an interesting spot you're in Edmonton. And the difference being, I mean, this is post dynasty. Everyone's pretty moved on, pretty much moved on. You said, I think Tikkanen was there. Yeah. It must have been hard coming from such a winning culture to go into a place that all of a sudden overnight just was so different than the prior 10 years. But it was a different chapter in my life.

I mean, like you said, with being in Montreal for the first six years, we had a chance to go deep in the playoffs every year. And we did most of the years. Other than the one year, I think we lost to Boston. I think that's where all the changes started happening. We lost to Boston, I think, four games to one. My second last year there, I think, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, 88. That was when they finally beat the Jinx nearly on to one.

One of the years. I was at that game. I was at Ray Bork's court in the clincher. Yeah, so things started changing then. But, I mean, going to Edmonton, it was a that game. I was at Ray Bork's sport in the clincher. Yeah, so things started changing then. But, I mean, going to Edmonton, it was a different job. You're right. The dynasty was gone. We were a pretty young team.

We weren't winning a lot. It was tough. I mean, we all loved to win. I mean, it's not always all about winning. Yeah, it is. It's always about winning, let's be honest. But we had a great group of guys there. I learned a lot from those guys there. And my my experience there i loved edmonton like the city

itself i i just enjoyed it because they love their old their old school hard-working blue collar people that love guys to come and play the game the way i played it so i i was treated really fairly and really well there but it was a tough time in my career and uh ended up signing as a restrictive free agent st louis after. But definitely a big change going from Montreal to Edmonton. But I did still really enjoy it. I made some great friends there too. Luke Richardson, Dave Manson's a beautician. Kelly Buckberger.

Louis DeBrus is a great person. I mean, Louis was an amazing person and was great for our team. And I could just go on and on about the whole group of guys. Arnett and Doug E. Waite was there at the time great hockey player uh bernie nichols was hilarious clema was just a beautician like double time and you must have some isa teak in his stories which is mentioned but he's no savage no tick is one of the best hockey players ever played with and i mean he was the word like people ask me who chirped the most or who was like the biggest rat on the team that you ever played with and i'd say tick but

like every time he was chirping nobody could understand him we couldn't even we were his teammates we couldn't understand it was what did you say tech and he'd be chirping at the other team and nobody would even understand what he was saying but that guy was so competitive and so intense and a great hockey player and there's another guy that doesn't get the credit he deserves. He could do it offensively and defensively. And he did, he did it all. He killed penalties, played the power play. He was just a super, a super player and a, and a great hockey player. And then he liked to have a good time off days too. Most Finns do.

Yeah. Yeah. So we've heard that we mentioned St. Louis. You signed there as a free agent on July 28, 1995. Why did you settle on St. Louis? What was the main decision there? To be honest, I was a restricted free agent. It was the only offer I had on the table. I mean, back then, there was no not-match movement in restricted free agents. I think there was only two or three players at that time that had moved.

I think there was the Shanahan, the Stevens deal, and then I don't know if there was another one or not by then, but I know. Yeah. And it was tough. I was trying to deal with Glenn Sather, Mr. Sather, Glenn Sather, who was the GM at the time. And he was an amazing GM. Like that guy was, was incredible. He even coached us for a while, but he didn't want to give me the money. And I actually gave him the opportunity to match at Canadian dollars. Cause back then we were paid in Canadian dollars in Canada.

And then when you went to the States, you got US dollars. And I liked it so much and everything.on I said I'll play for what they offered me in U.S. dollars for Canadian dollars and he didn't want to do it he had a number in his head and you talk to anybody from Edmonton he's a tough negotiator and he wouldn't he wouldn't give in and then when I signed with him he called me he goes I treated you like a son he was pissed off at me but I mean I had to do what was best for me and I I knew that St. Louis had a really good team too at that point they had some really good key players and I had played for Keenan before in the Canada Cup in 91 and I knew that he liked the style play I played and I knew I'd get the opportunity to play uh in good

situations and uh get to play with good players so um but quite honestly as a restricted free agent was really the only other offer I had in the table and I jumped on it and I did just for our younger listeners back then the compensation was so much different like you I had in the table, and I jumped on it. And I think just for our younger listeners, back then, the compensation was so much different. Like you signed with St. Louis, and as a result of that, the Edmonton Oilers were awarded Curtis Joseph as a result of that sign. And same thing when the Blues signed, was it Kevin Stevens? And then Shanahan went to the Devils.

So it was such a crazy system back then. But then you ended up getting the captaincy, but that must have been a little awkward because Brett hell had it before you. Yeah. Well, going back to the other stuff there used to be, you could either get picks up pickups, like first round picks or second round picks or like put them together a package, but they ended up giving Cujo and Mike Greer, who actually turned into being a really good player too.

Mike Greer was a good right winger and played, played really well with the other. So, I mean, I love playing at St. Louis and I thought I did a pretty good job the short time I was there but uh they they did really well too Curtis Joseph who I played with later is just a great person and a great goaltender obviously I think he should be in the hall of fame and Mike Greer was a heck of a hockey player too um and then I went to like you said I went to St. Louis and uh I was the captain in St. I was actually Captain Edmonton too I was named captain by the Oilers but when I was doing my contract and all that and got into a bit of a battle with

George Burnett who was my coach a young coach I was a young captain he wanted me to do some things that I didn't think were right for captain to do and so we just had different views on what a captain should be so we kind of decided that it probably wasn't the best idea to be a captain and not only that the contract situation wasn't going well so I just thought it was best that I wasn't uh wearing the at that time and I ended up leaving and going to St. Louis and saying that you're right it was really awkward I mean they took the sea off of Brett Hall who I think is one of the greatest players and just one of the most funny guys I've ever played with and one of the most talented players I played with because I played with him and Gretz in St. Louis on the line when Gretz came

to St. Louis in the trade. But it was really tough, yeah. I mean, it's an honor to wear the captaincy, and I enjoyed it. But I only wore it for a short period of time there too because I was more than happy to give it to Wayne Gretzky. He was one of the greatest players ever. And he didn't want it, but he deserved it, and he should have it. And to be honest, I was kind of happy to get rid of it at the time.

I got it in a situation I didn't really want it. I mean, Holly was a great player. He was a hall of famer and uh he was definitely one of the leaders of our teams and it was just him and mike didn't get along great and that's why it happened yeah were you there um were you there the time when he made him serve the the the too many men penalty no i i would have loved to see now i've heard a lot of holy stories but i would have loved to see that one uh but i mean ho – I remember one where they told Holly to go serve the penalty. He said, no, I don't serve penalties. And they said, no, you're going to serve the penalty.

So he went and served the penalty, and he comes out of the penalty box, and sure enough, he gets a breakaway. And that's the thought process I'm pointing to some of your top players for the coaches nowadays. They think he comes out of the box, maybe get a breakaway. Holly gets on a breakaway, goes down the ice, and dumps it in the corner. He comes back to the bench and says, I told you, don't serve fucking on a breakaway, goes down the ice and dumps it in the corner. And so comes back to the bench says, I told you don't serve fucking penalties. So he had a breakaway, he dumps it in the corner.

So I've heard that story. And it's, Holly's like, Holly's one of the most talented players I've ever played with. One of the funniest guys. He's got the best, some of the best one-liners I've ever, ever heard. And it's even sometimes towards you, but you got to laugh about it. Like, I remember we were playing together, him and and i and gretz wasn't there yet and i think we for some reason they put uh twister on our line for a shift because there was guys like running around and taking advantage of holly more so than me and kind of beat me up but we were more more worried about holly to be honest he's the 70

goal scorer right so uh we come back to the bench so when holly turns on the key and goes get him off our fucking line right now and twister would just laugh because he knew too that's just that's just holly right like that's holly he didn't mean anything by it he was just a funny person but that kid could that could could play the game i mean people ask me about him he's funny he's a good he was always really good to me and he's a funny he's funny as hell and he can play the game and he can play. He's not just a goal scorer. That guy could pass the puck and he was good defensively too. That guy was a hell of a hockey player.

In St. Louis, you played with the man who would be the final person to ever play an NHL game without a helmet on and Craig McTavish. At the time, did guys think he was nuts or was it just like, you know, this is what he's always done. Or was it starting to be like, dude, you're the only person that doesn't have a lid on? I'm going to tell you, I got to play with Mac T in Edmonton and St. Louis. He would headbutt people. He would headbutt people.

He was an animal. He'd be on the face-offs, and I'd be like, and he's headbutting them. He has no helmet on. They have a helmet on. And I'm going like, what are you doing, Mac? He was an animal. Mac T was one of the most competitive players. Another guy that I played with was so competitive.

Nobody knew it. He held everything in, but he was competitive. And he didn't say a lot. But when he did, people listened to him. They respected Craig McTavish. And I remember getting traded from St. Louis. I can't remember if we were in Colorado. Me and Murray Barron got traded to Montreal for Pierre Turgeon and Conroy,

who turned into a pretty good player. And then I think it was Fitzpatrick never played. I don't think he played or maybe played a couple of games, but I remember walking in the room. Keenan just pointed, had some point at us and told us we'll see Keenan. That's how he did it, right? You'd walk and he goes, you're traded. He had no feelings.

He just did it. And that was it. But I remember walking in the room and we had a close group of guys in St. Louis. We had that good run in the playoffs when we traded for Gretz. And I remember like guys were in tears and Mac T was one of them and Mac T said some really kind things about Murray Barron and myself after we had left the team and that's just the type of person he was he was just a great leader and competitive and just crazy but I mean I just I mean I didn't wear

a visor or wear a mouth guard and I thought that was stupid or crazy whatever you want to call it and he was out there flying around with no helmet on. It wasn't like he played – again, his hair looked great and everything was always in place. But it wasn't like he played a soft game either. Like he played a nasty, mean, tough game. He played a game – Check it forward. Oh, yeah.

He played hard every night. And like Whit said, though, it's funny, but he's not – he's serious. When he would go into a face-off, he was headbutting the other guy. It didn't even matter if the other guy had a helmet on. He didn't. He was just an unbelievable player and an intense player. Shane, February, like you said, you guys get Gretzky a first year in St. Louis. Did any guys in the room have any idea it was going to happen?

Was it a total surprise? Take us through that whole journey of getting Wayne Gretzky at the trade deadline. I mean, there's – you know, anytime you see a teammate get traded, no matter who it's for, you're going to miss them, right? But, no, it came – there was rumblings that – and we all knew, well, Keenan, come on, he makes trades all the time just for making a trade. It didn't matter if it was going to help the team or not.

He needed to make a trade or two. But we knew there was rumblings about a trade happening, but we didn't know we were getting Wayne Gretzky, the best player to play the game. And when we got him, the whole dressing room just lifted up. And saying that, obviously, we're going to miss the guys that we just traded because they were part of our team and they were younger guys who were just coming up and trying to i mean there were guys i had over my house for for uh christmas dinners and thanksgiving dinners because they were young guys

around their own so i wanted to have them at my place but uh to get the best player in the world you knew your chances of doing well in the playoffs were a lot greater and i'll say it again and that means a lot to me though is he's just a great player but he was just a great person a great leader and to have him come over and be the captain of our hockey team and just give us that extra boost to going into the playoffs and the second half of the season was incredible i know there's a lot of scuttlebutt that mike keenan treated him like every other guy is that accurate did he treat him like every other every other guy in the room what did he give him a little leeway because he was wayne gretzky he gave him a little leeway because he was Wayne Gretzky?

He gave him a little leeway because he was Wayne Gretzky. Let me tell you that. Now, saying that, Mike was hard on a lot of guys. I mean, you've got to get the best out of players. I'm a big believer. I've learned it more over my career and over my life. You've got to treat people a little bit differently. You can't whack and beat people.

With me, you could do that to me. You could beat me and harp on me and be on me all the time that you get the best and every other guys would just tell you to you know fuck off i'm not taking that and holly be one of them don't don't do that to holly just you gotta encourage him and be good with him but he he gave gretz some leeway for sure and and who didn't who didn't i mean anybody that ever played against him played with him you always gave wayne gretzky leeway because he's the greatest player to play the game I mean I love Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr and Mary Lemieux was another unbelievable great player that I was dropped the same year but everybody gave Wayne Gretzky a little bit of leeway I think anybody even played with played against him it would say that but in saying that Keenan was hard on almost everybody else and

Holly was one of the guys he was the hardest on but I look back I think that he did that because he knew how good those guys were and wanted to get the best out of his best players. But sometimes you have to use a different angle with different players. It's just different personalities. Were the fuck you matches pretty common with Keenan? Would you go in the office and never hash it out with him? Well, I'll tell you, I had a few with Mike.

And I've seen a few with Mike and Holly. Holly actually threw a skate at him once. I had more. I had more.. Holly actually threw a skate at him once. I had more. I had more. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't mean to hit him.

I think Holly was throwing him for more for the show, for the boys in the room, because we got a pretty good kick out of it. But I, I mean, there was one time when I went into, this is when I had made captain and he called me into his office. Mike didn't. I remember,

I think it was Jimmy Roberts was the assistant coach there at the time. And think it was uh who was the other assistant coach uh used to wipe white uh the white towel on the uh on the on the stick in vancouver there anyways they're sitting in the room there and keenan has called me in and i don't know what the heck does he want me to come in there in there and he calls me he sits me and goes when are you going to fucking grab brad hall by the throat i said what and i'm sitting here what what? And I'm thinking, I didn't, I didn't even know what to say. I'm just sitting there. I go, what? And he goes, when are you going to grab Holly by the throat? And I said, uh, never, I'm not going to grab one of my teammates by the throat. I mean,

he's one of the greatest players to play the game and he's the hall of fame and I'm not going to do that. And he expected me to like, he wanted me. And that's the type, that's the way Mike was Mike wanted you to you know get guys going and motivate them and even be like a little bit more aggressive with them and I just I couldn't do that sure enough the next game I didn't play a whole lot but that's okay Holly was a great teammate and I think there was just so much animosity between those two that it was hard it was hard for them both to be in the same dress room on the same team at the same time and I think those two that it was hard it was hard for them both to be in the same dressing room on the same team at the same time and I think a lot of it was I mean Holly was a

great player and Mike for me was a great coach but I just think their personalities didn't match very well and it was just something that uh I don't think they could exist in the same dressing room on the same hockey team but it was a crazy moment at that time but the fuck you match remora with burnsy i mean pat burns was like a father to me and i played with a play from for six years it was incredible to me but um i'll never forget the time and we we all know we've done this before we're playing and we think we're like some of the maybe having one of the better years in the team we should be playing more than we than we are so i'll never forget it we're in the Montreal Forum. We're playing. Reece was playing with me, and I think it was – it might have been Gilles Thibodeau or somebody like that

or Screwy was playing with us at that time, Brian Scruton. And that's a year that – Reece had had 50 goals the year before and was on pace to get another 50, and we're in the game. And to be honest, we're terrible. We're playing like shit. And we knew it, but we still thought we should be playing. Burnsy calls us off the ice, and I slam the gate. You know, Witt and Biz, that's the way we tell the coach we still thought we should be playing burns he calls us off the ice and i slammed the gate you know whit and biz that's the way we tell the coach we're not happy right so i

slammed the gate i see him look down at me doesn't say anything we go back in the ice a couple shifts later same thing he pulls us off the ice after about 20 seconds so i come in i slam to get a little bit harder and he comes down and looks leans over and goes into my ear you do that fucking again you're gone now i'm thinking oh really into my ear. You do that fucking again, you're gone. Now I'm thinking, oh, really? Yeah, okay, he won't do that to me, right? So three shifts later, we're near the end of the second period. I come off the ice.

I thought it was a short shift. I slam the gate. He comes down, grabs me by the back of the jersey. He yanks me off the bench and goes, get the fuck off the bench. Go to the room and get undressed. You're done for the rest of the game. Oh, my goodness. And I went back to my back, and I'm on the back of the floor laying there looking up at the roof and all i can see is all the banners the great montreal canines players that played and i'm

thinking what did i just do right and you know what the old forum all right you know what the old forum where you got to walk by the bench all the top doggers the rocket richard john bellovo our president ronald corey and i'm there i am with my tail between my legs, walking off the bench, go into the room and I'm thinking, what am I going to do now? He's pissed. Burns. He's got red. His cheeks got red and his ears are red and blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm dead. He walks in the room and I'm sitting there and he starts yelling at me.

You fucking this. You're terrible. You're playing awful tonight. And you want to backtalk me and slam the gate. You're done. Take all your gear off. Cause I had half my gear off. So I didn't know what to do. So I went in the back room or the stick room where we cut our sticks and curved them and shit that's when wood was in bizzard and you guys might not know when wood sticks were out but anyways and i'm sitting i'm just i'm thinking oh my god i'm done like they're gonna trade me now or i'm gonna go to the minors or something right larry robbins comes in the room talking about larry being a leader he comes in the room i hear him talking to the guys a bit i see him walk out of the hallway

into burns his dressing because i could see burns he dressed from where i was and i kind of was when i went out there i was hoping maybe he'd come and talk to me after burns we didn't larry goes in into the room i see him come out he comes down to me goes put your gear back on kid i said what he goes put your gear back on so i went back and put my gear back on played in the third period burns he played the show to me and everything was forgotten. That's just, that's the type of guy Larry Robinson is. He just, he went in and talked to Burns. That's an old school story. That's an old school story.

And he's just, he's just, he's just one of those guys that he's got your back. And he was a great teammate. And that just shows respect that Pat Burns had for Larry Robinson too. And it was lucky that I had people like that around me to save me a few times. Cause trust me, I probably deserved more than what I got. I probably should have been out of the game and missed a few games after that. But Larry saved my butt. What was your stat line in the third?

Had a lot of ice time. I don't think I got any, I don't think I got, I don't think I got anything, but I played a lot, but I can't, I might've, I might've. You speared somebody too, I'm sure. Third assist, plus one. I might've got a fifth assist and a plus two. I don't know. But I speared two guys.

That's another story. I'm coming out of the penalty box, but we'll tell that one another time. Yeah, round two and three for us. You say in 91, you made the Canada Cup team. And then in 98, you played in the Olympics. Is it Nagano? So 96 World Cup, did you get snubbed or were you injured? What happened there?

No, I got snubbed. Really? And then they lost. Fuck, they're missing Corso. Who was that GM? They missed Corso in 98. Corso was there in 98. We didn't win the medal, buddy.

So it wasn't me. Well, Gretz didn't go in the shootout. Oh, man, guys. Let me tell you. So much to talk about. For me, yeah, the Olympics for me was probably one of the greatest moments of my career in my life and one of the most upsetting and disappointing years of my times in my career i mean getting the opportunity to go play in the olympics in 98 and play with

some of the greatest players actually played with linda ross on a line that year was supposed to be paul korea because we played together in the world championships the year before but korea got hurt suitor had hit him and he had the concussion thing but I mean to go there and play and be a part of the opening ceremonies and play with all the other athletes and that's what for me stands out is to play with all these other amateur athletes and they opened their arms to us professional athletes that got paid to play a game we love to play and you see all these athletes make these sacrifices and come in there their race or or their event could be over within a second and they just spent four years of their life working for it not getting paid to do it and

they had to work other jobs to do it so it just taught me a lesson that i was so lucky and fortunate to play a game that i love to play it would have probably played for free but they wanted to pay me for it so why not i'll take the paycheck but to be a part of that and just to get to meet all the other athletes and participate in watching their events it was just an incredible feeling to be around all the other athletes from all the other athletes and participate in watching their events it was just an incredible feeling to be around all the other athletes from all the other countries and eating in the same cafeteria and different food which is just incredible but to to lose uh to see in the semi-final game and to lose in a shootout to hasik and the czech team and to have wayne gretzky sit beside he was actually sitting right beside me and i mean every time there was a player picked to go in the

shootout and we had great players don't get me wrong Ray Bork was my roommate at the Olympics with Fleury and Keith Primo were our room it was Borky, me, Primo and Fleury were our room but I mean Ray Bork would be the first one to say to you how many breakaways does he get right and you know got the best player sitting on the bench and every time somebody was picked I'm looking over my shoulder like a Crawford thinking when's Gretzko on the greatest player? And he was, he built for this. I mean, he's going to score probably. When doesn't he score, right? So to lose like that, to see the greatest player in the game or one of the greatest players to play

the, in my, my personal opinion, the greatest player, not shoot. It was one of the biggest disappointments. And then top it off, we go on to the bronze game and And you know how hockey players are. We want the Stanley Cup or the gold medal or nothing at that point. Yeah, it's hard to get fired up for that. Yeah, but then you look back, right, Whit and Pizzer and Ari. You look back and you go, why didn't we play a great game that game and get a bronze medal?

How many people get a bronze medal from the Olympics? That could be somewhere in my house. I don't know. I might have it in the basement or somewhere. No, I remember – I wish we would have played know. I might have it in the basement or somewhere. No, I remember – I wish we would have played harder. I remember World Juniors too getting that speech. We lost semis to Canada in Halifax and then had Finland.

We lost the game. We didn't get the bronze. But before the game, the coach was talking about, like, you guys got to – like, you don't understand how big a medal would be. It's very true. And at the time, as players, you didn't care about anything, especially Canadians, right? You were looking for gold.

Yeah, you're right. That's the thing. We were looking for gold. We were so down and depressed and just – players you didn't care about anything especially canadians right you were looking for gold yeah you're right well that's the thing we were looking for gold we were so down and depressed and just we didn't really care we didn't really want to play the game and then the checks ended winning the gold medal and guess what they uh they asked for our plane to fly home we had a charter plane and you know what the canes said fuck off not a fucking chance boys get your own get your own plane get your own plane you're flying you can get your own way home you won the gold medal enjoy it wow um i gotta ask like was it talked about in the locker room right after or was it still pretty somber or what's the feeling in there i after the shootout yeah like it was pretty yeah it was it was pretty it was pretty somber there nobody really said a whole lot and i gotta tell you gretz was so

you know how he is you guys you've been around him he's so classy and he never say anything in front of anybody just did like he did everything with class and uh we went out for beers japanese beers after like smaller group like eight of us and i think he made his true feelings well known that you know he wasn't the happiest but he accepted the coach's decision but he thinks he should have been in the shootout and he's probably one trillion percent right he should have been that shootout so I think everybody was disappointed and frustrated and pissed off that he wasn't in the shootout but again you have to respect the coaches and their decisions I mean what did crawford say in the media uh i didn't read a whole lot of media at that time i didn't uh but i i think he made some excuse or i know we did do it

we practiced the shootouts every every practice after practice and i think the goalies had some input on who was good on shootouts and all that but i mean at that point you got 20 of the best players from canada i think they're all pretty good, but you've got the best player in the world sitting on your bench. I think you're going to send them in on a break. So I don't get what went on there. I don't know if there's a backstory to all of it. I just don't know. I don't understand it, never will understand it,

and I'll never forget it. It's something that I just can't believe that he didn't go on the shootout. To this day, I don't know, and I don't know the excuse. I mean, you guys should get him on and ask them yeah i i get them can you get them for us shane i i wanted to ask that you know lindros was named the captain bobby clack was the gm of the team it wasn't gretzky it wasn't book it wasn't eisman how did the vets in the room react to the fact that this young stud was you know the captain of the canadian olympic team at the time i think everybody honestly was looking at like it was kind of know, the captain of the Canadian Olympic team at the time? I think everybody honestly was looking at it

like it was kind of the passing the torch to the next group of players. I mean, you name three guys who were well-deserving of the captaincy and Ray Bork, who I've become close with. He was my roommate at the Olympics and I've stayed in touch with Bork and he's just an incredible person, great leader.

And I would have loved to play with him and played for him as him being our captain. And obviously Gretzky was a great captain. I honestly have loved him to play with him and played for him as a as him being our captain and obviously Gretzky was a great captain I honestly think that they were looking towards the next years and having and getting and having those guys around to teach him the ropes a little bit where Borky and Mass and those guys Eisenman could all teach him the ropes about being a captain on a Team Canada team it's there's a lot of pressure and I think even sometimes more so than your your team club right uh with the representing your whole country there's a lot of pressure. And I think even sometimes more so than your, your team club, right. With the representing your whole country, there's a lot of pressure on you.

They expect a lot from you. So I think they were just thinking for the future and to have those guys still around and not the top of their game to help him and pass the torch to him and teach him the ropes of being a good captain for, for Canada. And also Bobby Clark, keeping his captain happy. Yeah.

And you're, and you know what? 100%. Right. And Bobby, Bobby Clark and Bob Clark and Bob Ganey were our GMs so uh both them being GMs helped me get on the team too I'm not gonna that guy know that for a fact and actually uh uh yeah Bob Ganey was a big fan of mine so I think

having him in my corner definitely helped me get on that team for sure and let's face it boys and we all know what politics politics plays a game a game in hockey women's hockey men's hockey and at every level so let's not kid ourselves so that's what i mean but you have to get you got to get a break you got to have somebody that believes in you to and and and gives you that opportunity to be successful and do great things i mean we haven't even covered toronto yet um you know we've been going long here let's let's let's dive into that quickly going yeah Toronto was uh you know what I mean I was hard I'll be honest I love playing in Montreal they gave me an opportunity to play in the game and realize my dream and it was just an incredible place to play the city was amazing to me the organization treated me like like gold and uh

I had a really tough tough time at that time I was going through some mental health illness issues and and I think a big part of it was you know do I sign in Toronto where my brother-in-law is playing and my sisters are close by my mom's close by my dad died at 45 all my friends are here in Toronto I grew up a Leaf fan you know do I sign in Toronto or do I go to stay in Montreal because Montreal offered me a contract I stay in Montreal where I have family and friends in Montreal too right my wife's from Montreal my two of my kids were born in Montreal. One was born in St. Louis, one in Edmonton. But I had a lot of ties in Montreal too.

So it was a tough decision. But ultimately, and then I could have went to Philly too. Philly offered me something. Talking about Bobby Clark, they had offered me a contract too in Philly and would have been a fun place to play in Philly. But it all came down to being close to my family and my friends and looking at the team. The Leafs had a great team at that time.

They had Cujo and Nett and they had Sundin and McGillney and some some great players here and I made the decision to come home and and play for my team that I dreamed of playing for my whole life and it was it was an unbelievable feeling to to put that Leaf jersey on and to put 27 on being Daryl Sillier was one of one of my favorite players him and Bobby Clark and and Trotteray were three of my favorite players to put his jersey on theark and and uh trotteray were three of my favorite players to put his jersey on the maple leaf jersey was pretty incredible but it was one of the toughest decisions i ever made um i'll touch on the mental health stuff i mean you've been a pretty big advocate for it you've been very open about it now you did you say it started when you first

got to toronto no uh i had suffered i knew i had anxiety and I have colitis. I was diagnosed with colitis when I was 15. And it's got something to do with stress and nerves, too. I think the colitis, I really believe that it's Crohn's and colitis. But I suffered from anxiety all the way through my life and it just got worse. And then when my dad passed away, it went to another level. My dad passed. I tried to, you know, medicate with alcohol and Ativan and different things. And then it just escalated as I went through my career. And then I it it hit i hit rock bottom when i was in toronto for sure but when i was trying to make that decision to leave montreal and come to toronto or go somewhere else it's when it really went into like high high gear and uh i started having really bad panic attacks

and thinking i was having a heart attack or dying and my heart was going to stop beating and and all kinds of stuff and uh yeah so it escalated uh when i came to toronto and then when i left the team in the playoffs that year there was all kinds of rumors flying around all kinds of stuff. And, yeah, so it escalated when I came to Toronto. And then when I left the team in the playoffs that year, there was all kinds of rumors flying around, all a bunch of shit. And I don't even care what was said. I really don't care. The people know me, know who I am and what I'm about. And I left the team and I got the help I needed to get help.

And if I wouldn't have got that help, to be honest, guys, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you guys today. So I'm lucky. Shane, do you think the same thing would have happened in a different city? was it destined to happen or did it happen because you were in Toronto at that particular time I don't think it had any to do with the city I was in to be honest I mean the pressure of playing in Montreal and Toronto and Edmonton like hockey hockey towns I love their hockey I love the pressure of the game of hockey I think it's everything else around the hockey and and and I honestly believe it I never dealt with my dad's death properly either.

And it's something that I needed to do. And I, I finally dealt with that, but there's just life, life. Everybody goes through pressures and, and, and emotions and you get, it's okay to be not okay. It's you're not alone. You're going to have ups and downs and, and it's, it's finding the tools that work for you to help you get through those times. And that's what I learned when I actually finally took the time to admit that I needed the help, first of all, and then to get the help, the proper help, because everybody's help is different and the support that I needed. But everybody's help is different and what they need to get better is different than the next person.

And that's something I learned. So I got the tools now. And trust me, I have tough times from every day. Like I have days where they're not great, but I have the tools to deal with those things. So I don't think it's necessarily where it happened. I just think it was going to happen. I should have dealt with it years ago and it wouldn't have escalated to where it got to.

Isn't it so wild that like as amazing as your dream coming true and making it to the NHL is like a lot of the stuff that kind of goes on away from the rink might be like amazing memories but it it's probably not healthy for guys too i mean the way you party and the way you go out and you're you're living the fast life not just saying you like so many guys and then you're having a blast and you just get a little older and you're like oh like that's not good for you as a person so it is it is harder as you get older and out of the game and i'm happy for you that you you were able to really get the help you needed yeah thanks with i mean you're

you're 100 right though the the lifestyle we live and uh definitely doesn't help i mean and some guys go to the extreme i mean i've never i've never done drugs in my entire life i mean alcohol is a drug but alcohol was my choice uh and i i did it a lot it was a way to to escape my pain of losing my father and other other stresses in life and i did it a lot i mean i got into the ativan and got hooked on ativan too on top of that so drinking and doing ativan and i got to the point where you know one ativan would put most people asleep and i was taking eight to ten a day late in my career and even in between periods and before practices so it was tough but like you said i got the support that i needed and the help and and and i'm doing better and i mean it's it's a

battle every day and i'm and i've got the right people and the right things around me but definitely the way we live the sleep that's sleeping is different that's not even our fault we get in late at night we get to bed at two three in the morning and you know maybe you take an ativan to get to sleep or something you have a couple beers to try to get to sleep. And then we're eating at different times all the time. So the lifestyle, which people don't understand, is, yeah, it's fun and it's awesome. And we're lucky for sure. I would never do anything different.

I'm the luckiest guy in the world. Hockey's given me everything, my friendships, my memories. And it paid me good money to play a sport I would have played for free. but it's all the other things outside of the game that people don't see and the stresses and and the and the decisions you have to make and the stresses it puts on your families and your friends and and and stuff and and as people we're human beings we make mistakes too I made mistakes off the ice and made mistakes financially sometimes and different things and that certain type of person that those things wear on you so it's tough but like I said you just got to find and admit that you need help get the help and get the proper help so yeah i've been lucky and i appreciate that uh you brought that up it's such

a separation from reality especially when it's what ends up being all over too right it's like you're you're you're being not only being stripped of your livelihood but it's just like you go from from essentially being desensitized to a lot of things you live this fast-paced lifestyle and and now it's not there and and it uh but i appreciate you being very vocal about it though man because there's so many people out there that that are dealing with a lot of issues and and mental health problems so um i know it's a you know a tough way to to end this conversation uh ari i'll throw it over to you i think you had one more yeah i was gonna say shane a lot of guys especially generation, I know we're in a few

years apart, you know, they're hard guys. They don't want to talk about their feelings. And I'm from that generation as well. But what do you suggest to other guys who are struggling with that first step to just say, hey, man, I need fucking help. I think that is the hardest part for guys to admit. And yes, it's guys. It's more specific to men than women. Like, how do I get help? What's the easiest way to say I need help to somebody well all right you're right i was from the same cloth i think all the guys that are on this podcast are probably from the same same cloth i mean it wasn't the easiest thing to do that's why i hit it for so many years i was afraid it was embarrassed i was shy i thought it was a weakness i thought maybe uh you know competitors would take

it as a weakness too and use it and back in in the day, they probably would have used it. That's just the way the game was back then. But honestly, the first step is just to admit you need the help and then to ask for the help. And it's that easy. It sounds easy, and it's not because it's not easy to do it. It took me years to admit that I needed the help and to get that help. But I always stick to a couple things, and it's okay not to be okay, and you're not alone. And the biggest,

when I finally left the Leafs in the playoffs, it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life is I love, love the game of hockey and I love playoff time. There's nothing better than the playoff time, but I knew that if I didn't leave after that game, I might not be around today or the next day or the next day back then, but I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be around today if I didn't. And I went and got the help I needed. But what I would say to them is,

if you don't, it's only going to get worse. And then you're not going to be around. You're going to, it's going to hurt a lot of other people around you, not just yourself. And that's something I started thinking about that, you know, how, how it would hurt my family, my kids, you know, my wife, my friends, my mom, my sisters. And I just got to the point where I wanted to live. I wanted to be around still. So I knew that I needed to ask for the help.

And as soon as I left and left the Leafs and realized I needed the help, I felt a hundred times better. It was like they took a piano off my back. And I mean, and then when I started talking about it, and that's why I love doing podcasts like this. And I love talking to people like you that understand both sides of it and get it because you can use your platform to help people. Because we talk about all the hockey stuff and they're great stories and they're fun. And I would never change. I still have those.

And I can't wait to come to Boston and have some fun with you guys and tell some more stories, whether it's on the podcast or not. But when I helped, when I kid came out to me and have some fun with you guys and tell some more stories, whether it's on the podcast or not. But when I helped, when I kid came out to me and said, you helped me, you saved my life by talking about your struggles with mental health. That's for me is more important than anything I did in hockey. And it always will be. And that's why I love doing these things. But for me, it would just be, and you said it already, you said it,

ask for the help and don't be shy and don't be embarrassed. And it's not a sign of weakness at all. It's an illness. It's not a sign of weakness. It's like getting a torn, a ligament in your knee. You can go to a doctor. There's doctors out there that can help you. You're not alone. And you can, and you can get through it. You can get better. And you can live a somewhat normal life if you do the right things. Well, thank you so much for joining us. We look forward, we look forward to getting, getting to meet you in person and go over some more parts of your

career because there's so much to cover. And I think that everyone that's listening, especially to the end, is going to enjoy and understand where you were coming from. So we appreciate it. By the way, Shane, get my number from Grally so you can text me next time you're in Boston. We've got to get a couple of cold ones down. Yeah. You'll get sick of me.

I'll be texting you so much when I get down. I'm on a roll of dice. I got to tell you guys, I really appreciate you having me on. Besides the hockey stuff, you guys have done a great job. Just keep doing what you're doing because it's fun as hell. It helps guys like me get on here and tell our stories because we can live in the past a little bit, so it's fun for us. Then you give like me get on here and tell our stories because we can live from the past a little bit. So it's fun for us.

And then you give up the opportunity for people to use your platform to help other people. And I think it's just incredible. And not only that you've been successful. So good for good for you guys. I'm really happy for all of you. More than anything, Shane,

thank you for opening up at the end. I think that a lot of people are going to really going to like that. And you know, it's a, it takes a lot of strength. So thank you so much. The stories at the beginning were out of control, man man that's exactly what our fans love as well so uh looking forward to uh grabbing some pops in person man yeah i'd love to uh love to see you

guys and get to know you even better and have some family is in person and also shane we want to thank your daughter's teammate molly slow she was a huge integral part of hooking this up we bumped into the pink whitney cup a few weeks ago awesome kid she facilitated this whole thing so huge thanks to molly slow at boston college for making this happen yeah i gotta say that uh molly and is a great girl and her family are great people and willow's been lucky enough to come to boston play at boston college and meet a lot of good people most of the kids are from the boston area they're just incredible people and they've been really good with Willow and super good to me.

And I'll tell you what, never mind about the boys' hockey. The girls' hockey, they can party. I've been out a few nights with them. This place? Now we've got plans. In this place, boys, I went to Donahue's and the Circle Tavern. I had the best time of the life with the girls. We'll have to send them a case of Pink Whitney so they can maybe celebrate next year's rookie party.

Hey, trust me. They love this stuff. They love this stuff. Yeah, they do. They love it. They love it. It's hard to get up here in Canada. It's hard to get up here in Canada, guys.

Sold out all the time. Yeah, we'll have to get a better steady stream going. We'll have to get you a Pink Whitney shot machine. Then we're talking. Hey, don't get me started guys. Cause that's the problem. I'm going to tell you one thing.

That's the problem with me. I only have one speed, whatever I do. I, I, I'm shocked to hear that. Hey, Whit,

Whit, full throttle boys. As long as we're not getting any fucking bar fights. And we're not going to handle that. The old Doyyle's rule bizzer wit all right trust me boys that people laugh at me now when i get drunk i'm the hugger i'm just a happy guy man and and we don't even have to say to each other this is what we do i went i went from the fighter to the fucker to the hugger. That was my progression.

Guess what? That's a good progression, buddy. Yeah, exactly. All right, buddy. We'll talk to you later. Big thanks to Shano for jumping on with us. I still got to catch up and have some beers with him in Boston. He hasn't hit town since the pandemic struck, but he owes me a beer,

so I can't wait for that. We do want to mention that interview was sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. To promote mental health and well-being, Barstool Sports is proud to announce they've added access to BetterHelp for all employees as a company-wide benefit. Life is full of stresses. It doesn't matter who you are or what you have, your life is probably stressful. Job, money, love life, and family are things that typically stress us out. You may not be feeling down and out or depressed or feel like you're at a total loss, but if your stress is high, your temper is shorter than usual, and even if you're just starting to feel strained in any of your relationships, you could probably use the chance to unload. And unload the stress and get it out is what you want to do. You want to talk to someone who's

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That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash chicklets. T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com slash checklists. All right, next up, another absolute legend of the game. This guy known for his fisticuffs, Jody Shelley. He's one of the great announcers of the game right now. We had an absolute joy talking to him. So once again, Jody Shelley. It's great to welcome this guest back. Though wasn't drafted he played over 600 nhl games as

one of the nhl's last generation of enforcers most of them were in a columbus blue jacket uniform where he led the league in penalty minutes in 2003 he also suited up for the sharks rangers and flyers and you can currently catch him providing his expert color commentary for the blue jacks on blue jackets on fox Sports Ohio. Thanks a bunch for coming back on. Jody Shelley, long time no see, my friend. That was awesome, R.A. Thanks for having me back on, man. A little hiccup at the end, buddy.

No, that was perfect. Stuck the land in. Yeah, last time we had you on was to talk about Pierre-Luc Dubois, Patrick Lanny, Roslevic. He's been a stud since he got there, huh, Roslevic? Yeah, that was quite a trade. And, you know, Lanny's a star but ross levick is a player that's got skill and he's got a lot to prove so it's been a good fit here so far you

know he's a guy that grew up in columbus uh idolized cam atkinson you know atkinson used to idolize marty saint louis and and and uh atkinson got to meet marty and and learn from him a little bit of that happened on here withsovic and Atkinson. It's nice. So should we have added Patrick Laine's personal fighting coach to that title at the beginning here? He's been chucking the knucks. Cody grabs him after he's like, let me help you next practice.

No, I think Jared Bull would have to do that. He's an assistant coach. He did take one, though, Biz, like I do. Like when we fought, I think i took one from you so yeah that you might be my signature move there i think you slept on a banana peel and i looked like i won the fight i was shitting my pants you the first time i ever fought for the arizona coyotes wit was this guy in san jose and i'll tell you what as nice as you are off the ice you had one of the meanest mugs on the ice did you practice that fuck that that that look that you had

i did i was playing the role big time buddy and what i remember about your fight you asked you were so like polite you were like the nicest guy you're like hey shells hey uh yeah you got one in you man i gotta i gotta get a fight going here and i'm like sure biz i knew you were coming but all right that just shows though you respected your elders you weren't that loud guy when you came into the league i was like hey um can you not pump my fucking eyes shut please i tried to but i didn't like the end of that fight yeah so last time we didn't get to do the full monthly what you uh like we usually do so we brought you back on now you were born in mantoba but you moved to nova scotia as a young kid. I loved that trip there. Obviously, these guys have been there multiple times. It seemed

like a real great place to grow up. It is, man. It's tremendous. But yeah, I was born in Manitoba. I grew up on Vancouver Island, so the west coast of Canada. My dad was a miner, so we were out there for 12 years. And then, long story short, we ended up in Newfoundland where my parents are from after we left Port Hardy, uh, BC and, and ended up, uh, from Newfoundland in a year. And then, uh, to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, nice little lobster fishing community on the South shore there. Everyone knows, uh, that Halifax area, which is great, but, uh, little lobster fishing community. Actually, Ryan Graves is from the same town I'm from.

So grew up there and yeah, it's a beautiful spot. You guys got to see some, some, uh see some of the highlights of the province for sure, with royalty in McKinnon and Crosby, of course. But it's a great spot of the world to visit. I actually wanted to ask you before. You came into the league, right? I don't even want to jump that far ahead, but I want to know, like when you came into the league and you knew you had to play the role,

was it scary at that point, or were you so used to it after junior, after college, all the things we'll get into? Was that something that was easy for you? Yeah, it was easy. It was my only ticket. I mean, I had no other choice. So I knew why I was there. I tried to fight every three games at least. If I went four games without a fight, I felt like I knew why I was there. I tried to fight every three games at least.

If I went four games without a fight, I felt like I wasn't doing my job. And it was easy to find fights then. But I was intimidated, but I didn't care if I lost. And that was my mentality. You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't have been the champ. To me, that would have been too much pressure. I would have rather been the underdog in every fight and been like,

I don't care if I lose. I'm just going to go at it. And that was the part that settled me down. So not much anxiety when Biz talks about pregame meal night before. Not the case for you? No, I was good. I slept well. I dealt with it in a weird way.

That's a real sick puppy. When I retired, I realized how much it consumed me. You know, like it was on my mind all the time. Like, you know, we used to get transactions in the newspaper. So it was like, oh, so-and-so got called up or sent down. You know, I maybe slept a little bit better if I knew a guy got sent down. But when a guy gets called up, you know, I deal with it mentally, file it away, and get ready for the next day.

But I slept, and it was no problem. It's like a goal scorer going a couple games without a point you know you just get you start the anxiety starts to build a little bit you don't feel like you're contributing but um it's Aaron Aaron Potts line correct right after we had you on an unbelievable article comes out of the 20th anniversary of you getting your first NHL game now throughout the course of the article this does talk about like in minor how you ended up going from playing like midget, where Halifax ended up coming into the league as a new team, correct? Yeah. So you, how did you end up getting invited to camp?

Was it just like they noticed you locally or what's, what was the story behind that? It's a great story. It's a great question. Yeah. Aaron Portsline wrote that. It was an unbelievable article biz because he did so much work and it was, it was just a nice, it wasortsline wrote that. It was an unbelievable article, Biz, because he did so much work, and it was just a nice – it was awesome to read that. You know, I had all these stories in my head,

but he put it all together so well. But I was in Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, and I went to Hockey Night in Boston. I made this team out of Team Atlantic. I went to Hockey Night in Boston and got on the draft list when there was like 16 rounds. So they were inviting – they had 90 invites to camp in Halifax and there was a couple scouts that had seen me and they said who's this kid in Yarmouth that's on the draft list like we got to invite him you know what I mean we you know so Shane

O'Brien was a local scout he invited me I got to go to or Sean O'Brien excuse me I got to go to camp and I got a tip going to camp from a local guy where I trained in Halifax at college that if I wanted to make an impression, I should drop the gloves. And I was 17 years old, just graduated high school. I'd never dropped the gloves in my life, never. I don't know if you had fought before you played on the streets or anything, but I'd never been in a fight. You fought the park. I was like, yeah yeah so i was like yeah yeah i'm not uh that that's not

something i'm gonna do so i i uh actually started boxing and learning how to fight just in case for camp you know what i mean so this guy david haynes gave me this tip that this one guy they were touting around on the on the billboards and on radio shows was not that tough, not as tough as they thought. So I ended up fighting him at camp and I was a local kid and I had an inside lane and I ended up making that team in Halifax just from learning how to fight in camp, getting beat up my, my whole training camp, whole first year and then just took it from there. Not often does a guy like that end up going on and become captain too. And one of the most beloved Halifax Moosehead players of all time.

Like what a wild ride it was throughout that entire junior career. It was amazing, man. It was something that, you know, an expansion team into the Quebec League. There was a lot to learn. Our first year there was 11 English players, 11 French. You know, we were pretty – it was really split up into two groups. But it was fun. It was a great experience being in the Maritimes,

having the Quebec guys out of Quebec and in our turf. And, you know, that kind of helped us in a big way. It was amazing going into, like, towns like Val d'Or, Quebec, and the passion in that league. And there were some tough boys like Patrick Cote and George LaRock and Peter Rowe. These were big boys that we had to go up against every night. But, yeah, it was pretty spectacular. Then I got to be the captain. Patrick Cote and George LaRock and Peter Rowe. These are big boys that we had to go up against every night.

But, yeah, it was pretty spectacular. Then I got to be the captain. I mean, you know, I was a local guy fighting with, so, you know, like there was some admiration there. That doesn't necessarily mean anything to be a leader on the team. No, I know. I know, but I was well-known. It worked out really well, but I appreciate that. You're right.

I did have some leadership qualities, and I'm really proud of that. Now, I think you're underplaying it too, Jody. Your number 25 was retired there. Yeah, that's right. 739 penalty minutes over your last two seasons. That's impressive as hell. But did the fighting come naturally to you? Like once you started it, you kind of started salivating a little bit?

Yeah. I mean, I knew it was my role. You know what I mean? I knew I didn't forget what got me to the dance. And I'll never forget. So after my third day in training camp in Quebec, might have been like fifth day, first round of cuts happened. And I remember calling my dad after the third day.

And I was like, Dad, I was waiting at a pay phone with a calling card. I finally get to the phone. I'm like, Dad, I got to come home. I can't do this. You know, like no one speaks English. I don't know anybody. I just want to go home. And my dad said, just don't cut yourself.

You know what I mean? Just stay there. Give yourself a chance. Just don't cut yourself. So I go back. I keep going to work. And I'd only had that one fight in the first five days. And the assistant coach came up to me and he goes, hey, you know, we got a lot of guys that are from Quebec that are five foot nine and can play with the puck.

You know, if you want to play like you're five foot nine, you might not have a chance. But if you play like you're six foot three, like you did on day one and like the light bulb went on like ding okay i know what i have to do to stay here so then i just kept i just kept fighting it came natural after that but i mean you know people ask me how do you you know what do i have to do to be a fighter how can i learn to fight the only way to do it is to get beat up a number of times and that's what i did my first year and then i was just fearless and i think that's what it was i wanted to be there it was my only ticket and and that just let me be fearless and be able to do it I mean look I was going to say looking at your numbers though were you somewhat of a decent player in in minor hockey because you ended up putting up 10 tucks your

first year or was it because you were creating so much space for yourself out there because all all these guys were afraid to get close to this mutant? No, I was pretty good, Biz. I mean, I played midget B, and that's not a high league, but I was a good hockey player. So to adjust from being a skilled player, in a sense, to going to getting limited minutes, was it hard to adjust on the hockey side of it? Yeah, I mean, it was at first, but on the hockey side of it yeah I mean it was at first but you know it just it was just part of it like you know I had the fighting was a priority but like when I got

to go on the power play when I got to play in practice when you know I just it was different in junior you know you didn't have to be so specific I took care of the fighting and then it was kind of off to the side and I got to play more minutes so I could turn down fights too but in the NHL it was very specific so no I think the hockey side was just it was just it was more natural in junior because it's free-flowing and less stress and less thinking uh where I think the NHL is really that system and you know you got to do your job and then you got to worry about guys and you make one mistake and you're on the bench were those actually the guys you were running through in junior LaRockRock, Worrell?

Was Big George the champ then, even before he got to the show? You know, he's a lefty, and he was big, and the rinks were small, and he would fly around. He is so fast. Straight ahead. It's a joke. And everyone in the building is screaming, look out! And he's just running

guys over uh yeah peter warrell was there i mean we we must have went at it i don't know how many times but yeah they were all the big boys there gordy dwyer patrick cote i mean he's still i mean he's still running through the quebec league i think so your last year junior uh you end up tearing a ligament in your knee correct yeah and so after that you don't really know what you're going to do you end up deciding to go to Canadian University yeah what I mean yeah like so so the story goes that you get there but then you're kind of seeing all these guys who you've been fighting in junior who I don't know you might even thought you're a better player at the time making all this money playing pro hockey and then you're kind of like I'm over this college situation well yeah so I was um I finished my major junior career tore my ACL and then

every year you play in the Canadian college or at CHL you get a year of Canadian college paid for so I had three years in the bank and that was a big deal so um you know at the end of my overage year uh St. John and the calgary flames had some interest but once i blew my knee out they were like when you're rehabbed and done call us and i was like i'm fine i'm gonna go to college you know this is this has been great but as i sat there i watched those guys that i fought exactly there were stars in the in the national hockey league people knew who they were they were making an impact so I left and I you know I signed a tryout with the St. John Flames towards the end of their season and I went there and that forfeited the Canadian scholarship that was that meant that was gone but I was like okay

so you know when they say like burn the boats you have no other options no other way to get off the island though the scholarship was gone the next year i went to camp in calgary and within days i was in johnstown of the east coast hockey league wondering you know what have i done i've been there too i would have thought the same thing it's a great town but it's a long way from the nhl yeah when when you go when you finish junior now obviously i don, I know there's examples of people who've ended up making the NHL, but if you finish junior and go to Canadian university for the most part, it's like, that's it. You're probably not playing at the highest level. Was that your mindset then too? Or were you actually like, no,

I'm still going to be good. Or did it take to see those guys for you to be like, wait a minute, wait a minute, this dream isn't done yet. Well, I'll tell you, I, I, uh uh so I saw those guys and I was you know it's thinking about they all got signing bonuses and they all had a good time and I was at Dalhousie and you know I was playing on the team it wasn't really my style of hockey um I went and took out a five thousand dollar credit line and used that as my signing bonus I think I spent it in about nine days in halifax and then when i realized that i was like you know what i think i still think i think i still have that uh pro mentality so i

think i better go take a run at this so that really was one of my indicators that uh yeah you're not ready for college or that style of hockey on three dollar beers that's that's how much you were drinking out in halifax you donkey that's fucking hilarious what was what was uh outside of that though what was the college experience like off the ice were you having a good time oh man it was it was it was awesome i mean you know when you play major junior biz i don't know if you talk about this but you always look at the college guys and you're just like man it's so much easier like you know they got the campus life and they got everything there and they got the dorms living together. They're way funnier. Hey, no curfew.

All the good. And, you know, we're on the bus grinding it out, going here and there and all through the week. So I enjoyed the college experience. I mean, the school, I remember going into one class, though. It was a business class. And I went to the back of that room and I sat down and I cracked open my brand new book. You know what I mean? It was just like, you could hear the binding on it, just crack open. I was like, Oh, I'm ready for this. Got my pencil out, sat there for 10 minutes, looked at my buddy and I was like, let's get out of here. I enjoyed it. Like a, kind of like a frat frat boy,

I guess. Is that when you went and took out the signing bonus yeah right away probably would have been a Wednesday night yeah unbelievable when you sign with Calgary what how much did they tell you you would have to put in as far as getting to the NHL did it was that like a place that they had you in the future at all no no there was no real conversation it was just uh it was a two two-way contract american hockey league east coast and i you know when you sign that when you don't really know anything you think i won't be in the east coast hockey league but it was an invite to training camp which was a big deal um but no there was no talk of prospects i was in the american league with jean sebastian jaguar marty saint louis um you know chris clark was there there

was a lot of good players that were down there that ended up having futures in other organizations. But, you know, at the time, when I got to Johnstown, I was down there with a second-round pick in John Tripp. Derek Walzer was a prospect. He was down in Johnstown, too. So no one was sitting around feeling sorry for themselves, but we all kind of felt like there's no real – we didn't know where we were going. Since you brought it up I got to ask what was it like playing with Martin St. Louis in the American Hockey League I believe you guys played together in St. John correct yeah we were in St. John I mean he was just he it was

great I mean he was a guy that was you know he could tell you he was going to prove something he was a guy that was if you ever been around Marty he's he's a great presence he's very demanding he's vocal but he's also like he's got this leadership quality but he was hilarious because he was part of the veteran group with chris o'sullivan and todd lusko who were probably two of the funnest people i'd ever met in my life at that time and you know in saint john new brunswick the the hotel was connected to the rink by way of a mall so i mean we we just spent all of our time together laughing at these three guys and the mockery, the fun they were having off the ice. So they were great to be around.

Played with Jager at Halifax as well, too. He must have stole a bunch of games for you. Yeah, he was awesome. I mean, he was the guy that I really – the first guy I'd been around that was a first-round pick, you know, big bonus, big future, so competitive. He was a backbone of our team in Halifax. I got to play with him in Anaheim. He's so funny, too.

Oh, he's awesome. He just chirps, guys. He has this funny sense of humor. He sweats so much. I've never seen somebody sweat that much. It must have been the same in junior. Oh, Jiggy. He cramped up yeah he's

he was making up for nita meyer a wit because nita meyer would come off from playing 30 minutes he'd have one beat of sweat on his chest but uh listen even when i played against the syracuse crunch they envied their fighters and that was that was like your last spot before you ended up making a full impact in the NHL now you ended up becoming kind of a cult hero there much like you were in Halifax correct well Syracuse was a good town too biz because we had I mean that that's a blue collar town and they like they like that action and there were some big boys in that league at that time too so you know you protected the turf and and you know that was one step away from from uh the

national hockey league now that was an expansion uh team in syracuse that you know they were now the the blue jackets affiliate instead of the vancouver canucks at the time so yeah we we wanted to prove every night that we were a tough team to play against plus syracuse man that rink is intimidating the boards rattle the stage is right at the end the fans are right on the war memorial just like i remember i remember seeing the name i was like wait it's actually called the war memorial that's a slap shot it is it was a good barn exactly great barn and we knew we tried to keep it intimidating and our coach loved it gary agnew loved to have us out there running around you know trying to get in the face of everyone else. So that's why we had such an intimidating team. Here's where things got a little bit interesting.

In that article, they mentioned there was like an off-ice fight between Christoph Oliwa and Lyle Odeline. And that kind of was the start of the fact that you were going to eventually end up coming up. It didn't mention why they were fighting. They ended up fighting twice off the ice in the same day. What was the conflict between Lyle Odeline and Christophe Oliwa? I have no idea. You know, I don't know what happened there. But I know it was, you know, it spilled.

It went from the shower out to the parking lot. I have no idea. I've never talked to Odeline about it or any of that stuff. But you never – you'd think that stuff would come out at some point but you know we'd heard rumors that it was you know girlfriends and stuff but we don't know i didn't know what happened so i was just in syracuse waiting to see if i was going to get the call when do you like it's not when but like what was the memory and what do you think back of when you got the call? I was just in Syracuse fighting everybody.

And, you know, Gary Agnew said to me, he goes, you know, you're going to be going up. And I'm like, yeah, right. You know, that's not happening. And he's like, yeah, you're going up and be ready, be ready. And so, you know, he worked with me on my skating and all that stuff. So I didn't believe it until I was actually on the plane. I just remember getting into Nationwide Arena. We were playing the Pittsburgh Penguins. Mario Lemieux was on the bench, and I was there to fight Oluwa.

And we had 19,000 fans in the building, and I remember being in warm-up and just thinking, I was waiting for someone to come over and tap me on the shoulder and be like, Mr. Shelley, you're in the wrong place. Get out of here. You know what I mean? Get off the ice. But no, it was just one of those moments

that you felt like it wasn't supposed to happen. And the next thing I was in a fight that, I mean, I could have fought anyone that night with the energy I had. It was amazing. Well, you end up having to fight Steve McKenna first. You thought you were going Oliwa. You end up getting two scraps of the first period.

I don't even think you had a minute of ice time. I had eight seconds of ice time, two fights. Both started off of a TV timeout. Were you doing that?

You had eight seconds, so you're like, hey man, can we skate around for a couple seconds before we drop the gloves? No. I wanted to get it

out of the way. So it was like, drop the puck. I don't know how you got four seconds in of ice time after the puck drop. But anyways, McKenna grabbed me first. That wasn out of the way. So it was like, drop the puck. I don't know how he got four seconds in of ice time after the puck dropped. But anyways, McKenna grabbed me first. That wasn't on the script. I mean, I was like, whoa.

And he's a big guy. So I was like, this isn't going to end well, and this isn't supposed to happen. But I survived that one. And then when Ola was out there again, Dave King put me out. I don't know how the clock ticked four seconds from, I mean, the puck hit the ice, our gloves hit the ice, and we were dancing.

I also read in that article, before the game, you were trying to get in touch with your parents who had won a free trip to Vegas. And back then, no cell phones, no nothing. So they were completely unaware that you were even going to start in your first NHL game. No, they were out of touch. They had never really left town.

And here they were, like two kids in Vegas, and I'm ready to make my NHL debut. And I was, like, so frustrated. I'm like, how can this be happening? You know what I mean? But you're right. I mean, there's no way to get a hold of them. You call the hotel.

They're like, ah, we don't know who they are, where they are. So my dad's comment after, I was like, Dad, well, you guys missed it he's and he goes yeah we saw the highlights i was like well it would have been great if you would have saw it he goes well you'll just have to play another one i'm like but unfortunately you didn't and then you end up it's funny now yeah i got sent down right away and and a big part of that too is because know, they sacrificed so much for you growing up. And that was also mentioned in the article as well. Just like talk about like the influence that they had on your career. Yeah, well, you know, it's nice because, you know, I mean, we all kind of everyone that makes it to the top level.

You know, you thank your parents and your family. And for me, they, you know, they sacrifice for themselves and for us all the time to, to just try to survive. We lived all over Canada, but it was, there was always great. So their attitude is great. The way they raised us was great and how they always gave us an opportunity, especially me to play hockey. I mean, I just played hockey for fun and you know, it's so rewarding to be able to play your first game, score your first goal, you know, meet idols or talk about teammates and

be able to pick up the phone and share it with them. And, you know, a lot of moments, I think, in our lives, you know, you almost think, I wish my buddies and my parents could be here. And, you know, I was glad I got to play so long because I got to share some a lot of the the moments with them uh through through just appreciating what they did for me spending the summers with them too it's like you get to tell these people stories and it's like they're they're just NHL fans at heart and then you're their family and best friends it's such a cool thing to think about but when you got to Columbus that year you get called up I mean that's the first year the blue jackets that's right when this city gets a team and there were some tough years but at the beginning i mean they they had a pretty like loud and proud fan

base right off the bat right oh yeah they were so this town is a major sports town ohio state's 105 000 fans inside you, winning is everything. I mean, they lose. This town shuts down. But they understand their sports. So this is their team. So they're all in. And, you know, the fighting, the goals, the excitement I have in Pittsburgh.

Detroit was a big rival, of course, because Ohio State, Michigan. The energy was there. The passion was there. So, you know, a lot of times you'd see the cheering would be off the charts and you'd be wondering what's happening well it could be just simply you know a guy falls down for the other team and they're just all over it so they're a raucous crowd right away here jody we mentioned lyle odeline we had him on the show just an unreal story what he's gone through what he came back. But we've talked to other guys too. Just an absolute doozy beauty of a teammate, right? Oh, I mean, so the old school Montreal Canadiens to me are the,

I mean, their stories they have about after practice, being together, you know, whatever they did in Montreal, they did it all together. Yeah, and they're all legends in that department and to me Lyle Odeline um he's my first captain I get to Columbus he could have told me I mean he could have said we're gonna go do whatever I mean I would have been like okay here we go you know you're Lyle Odeline let's go we used to go after practice and we would sit around have bud lights and he would tell stories and we would eat chicken wings and I would ask him I would ask him 1,000 questions.

And he would do it right until he'd be done. And a classic Odie, every time he's done, he'd stand up and be like, all right, I got to go home. And he would leave. And he'd be the first guy at the rink the next day, showered, chew in. And he'd walk right by with a coffee like he didn't see it for a week. Be like, good morning. And he'd walk right by like nothing happened. I'm'm like yeah it is awesome that's just old school business right there have fun but show up for business and that's what i loved about od great guy team first guy uh

and a real throwback were there some off ice games you guys would play was it pool was it darts what was the thing you guys were doing when you're crushing pints? Yeah, you know what? We used to play golden tea. He used to play golden tea all afternoon. I mean the hours of golden tea. And he thought he was pretty good at it. He smashed me. He smashed me in that game, yes. He's like, want to go, kid?

I've never played. I'm like, okay. There goes your bonus. I was collecting my signing bonus. Yeah, there goes your bonus just like Jody's. Yeah, mine was quick. Jody, I want to bring up another date. January 10, 2002, you fought Bob Probert once each period of that game.

What was the lead-up to that? What was your mindset going through the game? Take us through that adventure. Well, that was, I'll tell you what, that was the moment where I was probably most scared of my career because Bob Probert was the guy. He was later in his career, but I got put on the ice with him. I remember the game was on in Canada, coast to coast on TSN, on the network,

and I knew the boys were going to be watching back home, and I was standing next to Bob Probert in a TV timeout, and I remember clearly thinking, wait till next shift to ask him. Right, Biz? You could always think, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. You understand that.

But, and then, so I was content with that. And then I heard myself say, do you want to go? And I was like, no, I was just saying, I was struggling with it. You know what I mean? So he heard me ask him, do you want to go? He looks at me with his, he's got these beady black eyes god bless us god rest his soul i mean he's passed along and but he looked through me and said i

don't care and i was like okay i'm done first of all i could i was hoping he was gonna say no i'm not gonna fight you kid but he's like i don't care and i was like oh my goodness this is really gonna happen so this is the first fight we We're in Chicago. You know, not a lot of fans there at the time. And they still beat the drum, though. Every time he threw a punch, they'd beat the drum. And I knew that. So I was like, I just don't want to hear that drum too many times. And I don't want the lights to go out, you know, get KO'd.

So we fight. I'm over. I'm fighting scared. And any time I lost a fight or I ended up not feeling good about it, on the way to the box i said to the guy that i i'd fought i said and i said to probert uh we're going again we're going again we're going again we got to do that again and i said it out of 50 times i bet to him while we were in the penalty box he didn't look at me once but uh second period comes and i'm on the ice

and we collide and i look and he's got his gloves off and he's ready to go we go again but this time I grab him really good and I actually cut him so you know this is the second period so now I fought Probert twice I remember going back to the locker room and the two locker room attendants are still there in Chicago to this day and every time I see him we have a chuckle because I walked in and they were like, you just beat up Bob Probert. And I'm like, yeah, this isn't good. This is bad because we got to play him again.

I got to play him. There's still another period. So they're like, do you want a Gatorade, a towel? I'm like, no, I don't want anything. I just want to sit here. So the guys come in. I remember Tyler, right? And the guys are like

you just beat up I'm like let's not talk about this because I heard if he ever loses a fighter gets cut he will get you back the next day the next minute the next month it doesn't matter he'll get you so I got to get ready for the third period and I'm on the bench and Dave King finally throws me out and Probert's out there it's a it's a face-off again. And I get over the boards and Kinger goes, get out there, Jody, but don't fight him. And so I stop and I look back at the bench and I'm like, Kinger, I got to fight him. He goes, well, don't take an extra two minutes.

I'm like, what does that mean? Okay, so I go over. Bob Probert cannot wait to get at me. His winger sees me hop hop on the ice the right winger he automatically just looks he sees me skates across Proby comes over and then we go again and um yeah I survived it I was happy about that but the worst part of the story is we had to play him again two nights later in Columbus so I had to fight him again in the first period of that game in Columbus but But I survived it.

It was probably the moment without Twitter and everything else. It was on TSN. It kind of gave me a name. So I thank him for that. But it was the longest night of my life. What an unbelievable story. That's phenomenal. Phenomenal stuff.

Nobody even knows what to ask you now. We're still trying to digest that. I was actually thinking he was just so feared by everyone. He had that presence. And then what he did hockey-wise, too. He's an all-star. I feel like every guy's first chance to fight him is memorable, and then you have that story. It's just like that on steroids.

But he didn't have to fight me, too. He could have said buzz off too and he could have said yeah you know i don't care because it buzzed off and i would have said thank you thank you very much that's a hall of fame reply i don't care yeah oh he was stoic what uh let's talk about dave king a little bit and uh doug mclean as well was a bit he was a big fan of you he kind of gave you that first opportunity just being involved with that organization I know that they they they stress like you going down and putting that work on working on your skating and your skills and you know there was a lot of work to put in oh yeah yeah those guys man oh you know I was lucky like those guys they understood that I was

a player that could be here at some point they believed in me probably more than I believed in myself at times but I think when you're in the minors sometimes you know you hear people or you see people get disappointed oh I was supposed to go up you know you see those guys are like oh he got the call my agent told me I was going the GM said this I never got caught up in that and maybe they appreciated that but they were I had some good people in my corner and yeah Doug McClain was definitely one of them care was awesome biz he used to take me after practice. Picture this. I just get called up.

So, you know, practice has ended and the head coach now is called me over and we're doing quick feet, crossover drills, and stick handling drills side to side. And I'm looking around. I just want to fit in with the veterans. You know, they got Ron Tugnut, Lyle O'Dwine, Jeff Sanders, and they're all kind of looking over like, you know, what is this hockey school that's going on right here in front of us and uh but he put in the time with me and i would have done it all night you know what i mean

but uh that's the kind of people and teacher that he was for me i want to bring up gerard galant that was his first coaching gig ever at columbus he was known as a players coach and he was getting pretty good results out of the team that was there. It wasn't very deep. Then all of a sudden he got kind of canned out of nowhere, and then they brought Hitchcock right in. Did they basically fire Gallant just to bring in Hitchcock, thinking it was an upgrade?

Well, you know, there was a lot going on in the organization that time. You know, they had some good players here that we just couldn't get going. You know, it was past the expansion time. It was around 2007. You know, you was past the expansion time. It was around 2007. You know, you had some good leadership, some good players. You wanted to reward those guys and we just couldn't get going. And to this day, I still say,

if we could have won some games with Gerard Gallant, there's no nicer person. There's no better coach. There's no guy who cares more about every single individual. And we dropped the ball there and they had to go a different route. And the different route is more of a guy like Hitchcock, who's, you know, very intelligent coach, but he's very demanding.

He's very on you every single shift, whereas Gerard would let you work through it, understanding it as a player. And I think that's just what you see with organizations. You know, you get the guy with the whip and then the next next thing you'll get a player's coach, they call it. So that was happening in Columbus. That's why that happened. When Nash came in, I mean, it was my draft. He's 18.

I think he had 40, 50 points his rookie year. Like, it had to be a feeling of like, oh, my God, now we're beginning. You know, I think Klesla was a high pick prior to that. But, all right right we're gonna go here and i know the the goal who did they pick in 2001 um was it leclerc yes yes and he kind of never really panned out and then it was like i know that that that definitely hurt them trying to build this nucleus but nash what a game breaker he was right off the bat yeah he was he was special big guy great hands you know the star the first pick um it kind of kicked us in the to another level a higher gear you know what i

mean um you remember minnesota and us came in at the same time and two years before that nashville came in so there was a lot of players that were were passed around the league for those expansion drafts and then you know nash was that player that, yeah, he was a guy that, you know, the all-star, he scored 42, I think, his second or third year. I mean, he was a guy that shared the Rocket Richard trophy with, I think it was a Gindler that year. Yeah, he helped us a little bit, but it still took time. I mean, this organization now finally with torts

and with the players that they've got here uh they're finally getting going but you know at those times they just couldn't piece it together they couldn't put the pieces around uh Nash that would help uh the last guy I was going to ask you about before we move on to San Jose was uh Sergei Fedorov oh awesome that's like you know that guy comes into the room you're like this guy is you know one of the best Russians of all time. And what was he like off the ice? He was awesome. He was, he was so just in his own little world, you know, like major superstar. I remember being in Vancouver and we were out to lunch, having lunch together.

We were eating, we were out for sushi. And there was a bunch of people that were like, knew who he was. But it's almost like he didn't know how famous he was. It was like, he was like, why are all these people? Can you believe all these people are trying to get pictures of us? And I'm like, us trying to get pictures of us trying to get pictures of you, Sergey? What? You think so? I'm like, yes, they're trying to get pictures of you. I'll just sit here in the background. And he was like, it was almost like he didn't understand that that was happening at the time. He was such a great guy, a humble person, a guy that, you know, always had was fidgeting with something on the ice, like trying to improve his game,

but off the ice, he was fun, really into a different thing, like diet. He would criticize my diet. I'm like, Sergey, I'm just eating chicken. No, that chicken is cooked wrong. I'm like, okay, teach me, man. But he's a real great guy. Yeah, Biz, like you mentioned, you moved on to San Jose after that. You got traded in January of 08. Now, Joe Thorne, the guy's been around forever,

but I feel like we're finding more and more stories each year just how much of a character he is. You were there for three years with him. What was that like? I got to tell you, man, I'm so excited for the Toronto Maple Leafs because I see the energy from the young guys, and I understand it. I mean, we used to go to the rink early, and we would leave late just because the energy and the practice.

This is practice. Practice arena because of that guy. The way he approached life, the way energy and the practice, this is practice, practice arena, because of that guy, the way he approached life, the way he approaches the game, the way he's just a kid, you know what I mean? It's amazing. He, one of the greatest stories is, so for me is, so we're in San Jose and it's a father's trip. Okay. So my dad gets the year, Joe Thornton, right? You know, the father's trips are great. All the dads are there. It's loose.

And so my dad's talking to Joe and I'm thinking, oh, what's my dad talking to Joe about? So I get over there and they're like, my dad's finished saying, now, when you guys get to Edmonton, because my parents live in Edmonton now, when you guys come to Edmonton, Joe, we're going to knock the snow off the barbecue and we'll have you out for dinner. You know, and I'm thinking, and Joe's like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll be there. We'll be there. We'll have the whole team out. And I'm like, oh, don't even start. Cause you know, my dad will be ready. My parents will be ready. So about six weeks later, we're in, we're in uh we're in we're getting ready for the edmonton trip okay but about a month before that my mom starts calling she's like now

bill thornton said that um you guys are going to come out for dinner i said mom listen you guys are 30 minutes from the hotel we're not gonna we're not gonna probably come to dinner um i don't want you guys to get excited and plan it. And then not everyone, you know, no one's going to come. But, you know, just just plan on me and a couple of guys coming. Just three of us will be there. So, you know, I'm not asking Joe on the on the trip, but I'm not saying, hey, we're going to my dad's. We're going to go to my parents for dinner.

You said it. You know, I'm just kind of waiting to see what's happening. So even the day before, I didn't say a word. My parents are wondering. So now it's the just kind of waiting to see what's happening. So even the day before, I didn't say a word. My parents were wondering. So now it's the day of and we land in Edmonton. We drive, what is it, 45 minutes from the airport to downtown to the hotel. Just as the bus pulls in, Joe looks at me and goes, hey, Joe, are we going to Ned and Doreen's for dinner? And I'm like, so I stand up.

I'm like, yeah, okay. Anybody that wants to come to my mom and dad's for dinner we're having steak we're going to leave in a half hour so um you know I go up and get changed I call my dad I'm like listen you might want to get my brother Luke to bring his truck down because I think there might be two carloads of guys but I don't know what's going to happen he's like oh we're ready we got the beer in the snowbank, the barbecue knocked off and the steaks are ready. I said, okay. So I get down in the lobby and there's a group of eight guys, I think seven or eight guys ready to go. So I look at the group and I, and I, well, I'm the first one to

walk out the door to see my dad's face. Right. But the group is so it's Joe Thornton, Rob Blake, Jeremy Roenick, Claude Lemieux, and Ryan Clow and Dougie Murray. Who am I missing? Someone else in there. So this is the legends that are walking up. My, my dad is like, you know, his jaw is dropping. So we go out, we have dinner. They tell stories. They sit around like they're buddies. You know, Joe's there in the middle of everything. We're watching hockey. We're eating steaks. 30-minute drive out, 30-minute back.

And it was one of the greatest nights for my family to have them out there. It was awesome. But it was all Joe. I mean, he's that type of guy. We've had a lot of stories. That just sums it all up, though, what everyone says, teammate and a person. That's great.

Oh, he's a good dude. I'd like to take i'd like to get your point of view on what you remember about um in 09 we played i was in anaheim we played you guys i think san jose you guys won the president's trophy that year and we beat you in the first round yeah and it was a huge upset uh granted we had pronger and niedemeyer playing like 40 minutes each but do you remember the game i think it was game three where Thornton and Getzlaff went right off the opening draw. Yes. Did you know that was coming?

Had Joe said anything? Was that a complete? Oh, OK. So we knew that was coming. And I think Pepe, Claude Lemieux, had gotten his ear about it. Because I don't know if Claude had done that or someone had done that in Jersey at one point. But remember, Claude had come that done that or someone had done that in Jersey at one point um but remember Claude had come in from the China Sharks he started over in China with the Sharks and ended

up in the San Jose Sharks and he brought all that experience and I think that was one of the things was to kind of help with those situations but yeah I think Joe was just trying to get going get something get some momentum to start uh but that was something that was talked about. We were ready to watch that one. I remember thinking, like, oh, this is going to be all over. Like, TSN, ESPN will even cover this. Two superstars going toe-to-toe. Yeah, that was right at the opening draw.

Yeah, I remember that. That was – Do you think a lot of it had to do with – It didn't work. Do you think a lot of it had to do with maybe the criticism at the time because like they had they had these good teams for a long time and they were never even able to get out of the first round i think maybe maybe it was the second thing yeah but yeah the longest time i think it was the pressure we could feel i think you know something had to happen we were playing kind of on the outside getting dominated president's trophy winners you

know what's happening here in the first round? No question, it was something to show a little more desperation, I think. I would say probably when I was playing with the Coyotes, I had no idea how loud that arena was. Probably one of the more underrated fan bases, at least during that time in the entire National Hockey League. I think it is, and I didn't know what it was going to be like once I got there. But there's nothing like the playoff atmosphere in that building because it is a little smaller it is a little louder and it feels like the fans are on top of you a little bit more

and their their fans are passionate you come out of that shark uh that shark's head and they all got the white pom-poms going and it's it's electric it's uh you're right it is louder than you would think. Jody, excuse me. Then you end up with the Rangers. There was a real cup of coffee there, but definitely some characters in your time there. Obviously, you played for Torts, Sean Avery there, Chris Drury.

What was your experience like there? It must be awesome just to play on Broadway in New York. There's such a history behind it. It was phenomenal. It was amazing. And, you know, know, Ari, the greatest part about New York for me was the mindset that I had because I thought my career was going to be over. You know what I mean? I got traded from San Jose. I didn't know where I was going to end up. I knew I was there on the deadline. And I just went to New York as a ranger. My son was born in San Jose.

It was a big move for me and my wife to move to New York. But we said to each other, like, let's just go enjoy it. That's exactly what we did. She was pregnant at the time. My son was sleeping in the closet in a hotel. You know, the whole crib was set up in the closet. But I walked, I mean, it was the most amazing thing because, you know, Madison Square Garden down there on 34th. And to get there from, we were on the south of central, south part of Central Park, you know, you go through all the traffic and hustle and bustle and you get to the garden and there's a guy there with the rope, kind of like the velvet rope, and he recognizes you and he's like, oh, Mr. Shelley, come on in. And I'm like, that is the

coolest thing I've ever seen. And then you're in Madison Square Garden, and you're having practice days. You're having lunch. I remember one day in the practice facility, Mark Messier was in the lunchroom. You know, he shared the lunchroom with the Knicks. And, you know, there was already eight guys in the lunchroom, but there was a table for four with eight guys around it, and no one was sitting with Mess. So I was like, you know, I was kind of like, screw this.

I'm going to sit with Mark. This is a chance to have lunch. You know what I mean? So I sit down and I'm like, Hey, anybody sitting here? He goes, no, sit down. I'd love for you to join me. So I'm sitting there having Mark with a lunch with Mark Messi, I think. And you know, this is, this is unbelievable. So Glenn's saying there, all those people are there. You're at you're in New York city Messi, I think, and, you know, this is unbelievable. So, Glenn Sather, all those people are there. You're in New York City.

But I think my mindset, my attitude was the greatest thing because the Ranger Blue, Madison Square Garden, the energy there, and I always wondered what it was like after a game, you know, like everyone just kind of disappears into the night. You don't see a teammate for, like, the whole day, the whole, you know, you do whatever you want. And I thought that was a really cool part of that city too. That was your first experience with John Tortorella. Yeah, it was. And yeah, I mean, I imagine a guy like you,

he's going to really respect and not going to give you too much shit when you're doing what you're doing for the team. But what do you remember about battles with Gabrick and other guys? Well, it was interesting because, you know, it's so late in the year and those guys that had him for so long that i didn't really get into that stuff i kind of watched from afar yeah um i remember being asked to go over the boards and gabrick sitting on the bench and i was like oh okay gabrick this is you know but that's i felt bad for a second but that's how you know that's how Torts coached and and that was that's what was happening so for me you know I was playing like 14 minutes a night

I was getting great situations but uh to see Gabrick sit there it was kind of like okay this is how it works but you know they already had the history there things like that surprised me um but you know Wade Redden the experience with Wade redden how um you know he was trying so hard and the fans were on top of him um the experience with that that was my first experience with the real the original six team and the fans being that ruthless on a player they were upset with and then i had a lot of long talks with redden about you know just what was going through and what it was like and um you know there was some interesting dynamics on that team for sure brandon prust brian boyle some great great people there too so it was a it was overall a good experience but you you mentioned the star factor of going out with federov i could imagine

if you went out with henrik lundqvist it'd be very similar in nyc well yeah and there was a couple times where we went to uh a couple clubs and you you know, him and, and, and Sean Avery, they're so well-known. They know the city so well that, you know, it was seamless getting into anywhere. And I always, it was curious what it was like, but you know, we'd go to like one Oak or a place like that. And, you know, everything was set up and everything was, we could feel that we were way cooler with those guys around because they

were, they were so well-known and we were just, we were still trying to be known. Were you shocked at the antics that Avery brought to hockey? Had that been the first time you'd ever seen it to that extent? Well, I'd played against him. So, you know, I had heard some of the things he said, but to be on the bench with him and hear what he would say to some people, I was shocked. I mean, there was a couple things he said where I had heard some of the things he said, but to be on the bench with him and hear what he would say to some people, I was shocked.

I mean, there was a couple of things he said where I had to move down a couple, get a couple of people away from him, just be like, oh my goodness. I mean, he just melted guys. He just melted them. And it was just, it was ruthless, man. Some of it was hard to hear. Well, Jody, you only had 21 games with the Rangers, but you must've done something right.

Cause July 1st, first day of free agency, the Flyers come along, gave you a deal. And I mean, that just seemed like a perfect spot for you. A tough guy. Philadelphia's history, like a match made in heaven, though. Well, I'll tell you, I had a good showing against the Flyers at the end of that season. It was that home and home sequence.

And my buddy Boosh was in that, and I had a couple goals on him. And we almost made the playoffs that was 2010 when they went all the way to the cup um you know it was us or them it came down to a shootout that's right yeah it was only opening that got stoned by brian boucher on that last shot um that sent us back home on the train the season was over and they were off to the to play uh end up playing chicago and in the finals there when Kane scored that goal. So, yeah, Philly was awesome. I mean, you guys know what it's like to play against the Philadelphia Flyers,

Witt and Biz, and it's not easy. But when you're on the inside, it's a really passionate and fun place to be. We lived in the practice rinks over in New Jersey. Me and my family lived in New Jersey. Some of the best times we had were away from Columbus. We're in that little town, Haddonfield, New Jersey. It's a, it was a great setup, a lot different than I thought, but, but the fans are so passionate. They care so much. They'll,

they'll be in your face, but you can really feel the, the love they have for you. And it was, it was a good fit for me. Did you have a ticket punched to Dry Island while you were there, or did you opt not to go? I was on the island for about a week, and I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. I remember erasing my name off the board. I was like, forget this.

How bizarre was that? I'd heard that Carter and Richards, they hadn't even been given the heads up that this was coming at them. I don't know. I didn't know the backstory of it. Again, I was pretty naive with a lot of these things that were going on behind the scenes. I look back and I think, well, how was I not more aware of what was going on? But, you know, this was an established team when I got there that had just gone to the finals. And here I come in, I'm like, oh, that was a good year.

I hope we can do the same or better. So I'm just kind of like, you know, just trying to fit in and help where I can. I didn't get involved with that. I didn't know that they weren't aware of it. But I remember when the whole thing came up and guys signed up and guys didn't. And I was

like, what do you mean dry island? Explain this to me. Like, could you imagine Lyle O'Donnell hearing dry Island? He would have fucking walked out of the room. He might have sunk it. Actually, I want to ask, how was your experience playing for Laviel

at Dry Island aside? Would you call him a players coach, an old school coach? He seems like sort of a blend. I would think, I don't know, old school. I think he's a motivator. You know, he's a guy that he did a great job pumping us up. He had a lot of creative things away, like Dry Island and motivational videos and just thoughts and, you know, the way that he would get the team fired up

just before they went on the ice, he was really good at. My role with him, he just didn't – I mean, that's not part of his game, so it was a struggle for me to get in the lineup on a more regular basis. But he was good to me. He was fair to me. You know what I mean? He wasn't like he was unfair.

But I would call him maybe the mix is a good call. The players coach and a little bit of an old school maybe a little bit there i would agree with that um very aware your first year in the nhl one game your last year one game how how did it all how did it all come to an end you know that's a really uh that's a great question because um it was so weird because um i had hip problem, okay? So I had to have hip surgery. But I was going to be after the season. So I had played one game that season, and Labiolette wanted to address me in Toronto,

and they had Colton Orr and Frazier McLaren ready for me. I think it might have even been a Saturday night. So I hadn't played in a while. You know what I mean? I'm an old, I was 37 years old, two kids and a wife at home. And I'm, and this was when I knew I was done because pregame skate in the morning, my VLAC comes up to me, he goes, you ready to go tonight? I'm like, Oh yeah. Always had that answer, right? Always. He goes, all right, you're in. And I'm like, at the minute he always had that answer, right? Always. He goes, all right, you're in. And I'm like, at the minute he told me that, I had a whole,

I had this empty feeling in my stomach. I went back to the hotel, and I could always nap. I could always take a nap. I had no problem sleeping in the afternoon. I couldn't nap. So I called the trainer, Jim McCrossin, and I explained to him. I said, you know, my hip just doesn't feel. And he's like, okay, all right, I'll tell the coach.

So I got back to the, he didn't call me back. I got back to the rink at five o'clock for a seven o'clock game or 4.30 for a seven o'clock game. And my name was not on the board. So I went to Jimmy, the trainer. I said, am I not in? He goes, no, no, we took you out. You take care of your hip.

The whole thing was, you know, they knew. And I had always said to myself, if I didn't have the fire, I would not go out and fight. So I was proud. I mean, at the moment I was heartbroken, but when he told me I was not in the lineup, I was so relieved. I mean, I'd never, it was like a thousand pound elephant right off my shoulders. And I just kind of was like, this is it, man. This is it. And I remember Scott Hartnell came over and he talked to me and I told him I was almost in tears. And Paul Holmgren, who's one of the classiest people ever

to be involved with hockey, we had a nice moment where he came over and he said, he looked me in the eye and he said, you did the right thing there. You did the right thing there. And I was like, man, I don't even, I didn't want him to know that I knew what he was talking about, but it was like a moment of respect that only, you know, you got to be there and you got to be in that moment and do what we do to

understand what it was like. And it was really, it was a moment. I was, I was so thrilled that it was over, but it was, it was a, I was glad that I knew it. From a guy too, who played the game as hard as anyone in Holmgren it was like it was such a like fraternity type thing you know what I mean he knows what you've been through that's that's so true when when it when the relief kicks in you're like oh my god I just I can't do it anymore like that's the relief like I don't have it but crazy story for you to

just figure it out that quickly you know it's weird it's like you can't take a nap that day and all of a sudden that's it well I think I must have been building up you know what I mean it must have been like the more that I was I remember being at home and and and I you know I would go healthy scratch for like 12 games in a row my last year and I would still go upstairs my wife with two young kids and I would be like well, it's time for me to go take my pregame nap and knowing I wasn't playing. And she'd be like, okay. And then finally, she's like, I'm going up one day. And she's like, really, you're going to go take a nap. And I was like, I guess not. I guess it's over. It was kind of coming.

See how long you can get away with it. Now, you said, you said there like that weight off your shoulders. How long before that turns to, to well what am I going to do next yeah that was uh so I I was still inside the ropes you know at that latter part of the year knowing I was going to be done um I knew I had to have hip surgery so I got taken care of. I kind of knew I was done. But, yeah, then that's when the scary feeling comes of now what? My wife's from Columbus area, so I knew I'd be back here. When I got traded from the Blue Jackets in 08, they did a very kind gesture in saying,

make sure when you're done with all this, circle back. But you're wondering, is the phone call still available? I fought 15 guys from Columbus since then. do they still want me to bowler so i'm like you know so i get back there and and do they really want me so yeah that was uh they offered me a radio job and i was gonna actually go sergey federov who you mentioned earlier um was the the president in Moscow there for CSK or whatever. And he had an offer on the table. And I was kind of thinking about going. But, you know, and then I was thinking,

what if this media availability with the Blue Jackets isn't there in a year and I've gone to Russia? And, you know, what am I doing? So it was right away, Biz, I was wondering what it was going to be like to answer your question. But it kind of fell into place easily. Yeah, Jody, I mean, I think you're a natural at it. You're one of the better color commentators out there. What I wanted to ask, NHL's deal with NBC expires this year. There's speculation they're going to have ESPN and NBC involved going forward. Is it possible we'll see

you maybe on a national platform? Are you content in Columbus? Well, you know what? I was content early, R.A RA with just being in Columbus but you know I think there's a lot of people that do both I see Keith Jones doing both so I'm going to try to take take a run at it I see guys like Witt and Biz these guys and you guys you guys are tearing it up so you know why would you be content I think you know especially with a new new horizon coming in I don't want to give up the Blue Jackets thing. I love this organization. I love being a part of it.

But I think it's worth taking a run at. That's a great point. Adapt or die, Jody. Adapt or die, buddy. Exactly. I mean, you guys are a great example. You're doing the Pink Whitney and the media. I mean, it's like you guys are blazing the trail here, especially for hockey.

I'm just too afraid of the networks because every time I'm on live air, I'm like, oh, no, what am I going to say to get fired here? You have that feeling in your stomach of like, oh, am I about to drop an F-bomb or say something stupid? Yeah, I think you have to have that. You have to be a little nervous every time you're around a mic or else. I mean, you see what's happening to people. You got to be sharp, frosty. You got to be a little nervous every time you're around a mic or else. I mean, you see what's happening to people. You got to be sharp, frosty.

You got to be frosty, Biz. Hot mic. It used to be hot mic. You'd be the guy mic'd up at practice or a game. You're like, boys, I got a mic on. Hot mic, hot mic. And now it's like everything we do, we got to be a little scared. Did you guys ever do that HBO?

Did you ever have that? Oh, yeah. I remember you were on the one year, the Winter Classic lead up i wish i had they did a great job with that oh it's amazing the work they put in and and even funnier is you'd be in practice you're free they get to be a part of the background and you look over on the glass you after having a conversation with two or three guys in practice and and two or three of them with the boom mic and the cameras they'd be laughing, you know, just die and laughing because you forget they're listening to your

conversation. But, but they were, they were great. Oh, I'd like, I'd like to see some of those, like,

like tapes in the vault of the HBO 24, seven HBO after hours. Yeah. A lot gets left in the cutting room floor. I'm sure I had one more for you. Obviously when you came about and play, there's a lot more fighting, a lot more physicality, you know, it's obviously toned down a bit, but do you think the game is at a perfect balance of like grit and finesse

right now where if guys want to fight, they can, but the talent's too good to not have it fully, fully flowered, I guess. No, I, you know, I always think there's more, more room for emotion. You know what I mean? I look know I always think there's more more room for emotion you know what I mean I look at the the battle of Alberta 7-1 and nothing going on nothing nothing really happening I just think that uh I just think that still the mindset of a certain mentality of representing your town your province your state whatever it is your fan base especially now when the fans aren't there. I know it's hard, but I love the emotional part of the game. You know, I love the fact that especially that, you know, you can settle the score.

I'd like to see a little more of it. I don't mean in a bad way. I would just like to see a little more fight from some teams, a little more in your face. But I don't know if it's a perfect balance. I think it's gone a little far one way um but in saying that i know you know the optics are bad when there's big always fights and big fights um but i would i would like to see just a little bit more to tell you the truth a little more fire

in this game perfect you guys i don't even i don't even know what else to ask you jody this has been fucking you guys You guys are awesome. This has been really good. Is there one or maybe even a few stories that you were like, oh, man, I got to tell this one because I'm sure you have a lot that are in the vault, but any ones you can share that we didn't bring up? You know what? That's always a tough question.

I ask it sometimes, and I'm like, I feel like a donkey. I think it's a great, it's a great question. You know, and I think getting prepared for you guys, I thought of a few things. I really wanted to tell that story of having those guys out to my house because I mean, it was a major name dropping session there with the guys, but it was such a reward for my, was she to there or Marlo or did you, or those other names? You forgot a few, but don't worry about it. He was kind of like lightning in a bottle, too.

He wasn't dead that long. It was Rob Blake, Jeremy Roenick, Claude Lemieux, Joe Thornton. So, yeah, that's what it was. And then Dougie Murray, Brian Claude, and myself. That's the group that came. But, I mean, you know, it was nice to have JR hanging out on the couch

just telling stories, you know. That was a story I wanted to tell. Are there any guys that you fought in the past you're still sour about and wouldn't turn down a do-si-do today with? No. You know, there's no real guys. I left it out there. You know what I mean?

I just kind of – I think we were all so relieved that when the fight was over that we just kind of got it done and out of the way. But, no, there's no animosity. I'm glad I got to fight Biz, though. He was so polite, you know. You gave me my start, buddy. After that one, I got to hang around Arizona for a little bit. So, Jody, yeah, but I thank you so much for everything, for coming on.

I know our fans are going to love this. And congratulations on a wonderful career and even a better or at least a comparable post career. You're buzzing right now, buddy. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate you guys having me on. You guys are killing it. And this has been my pleasure.

You guys are great. I think more games than me and you combined, biz fucking guy great job thanks for coming on and we appreciate it have a great one jody huge thanks to jody once again for joining us another great interview another great guy uh had some fun hanging out with him in boston a few months back just an absolute joy of a fellow so big thanks to him once again for coming on with us. I want to talk to you about cross-country mortgage for a sec. Cross-country mortgage is much like us at Barstool, a people-first group of people. They're dedicated to the fundamentals of mortgage lending, which results in a fast, convenient, and less stressful home financing or refinancing experience. And right now, rates are unbelievably low.

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sent you. So go to crosscountrymortgage.com slash barstool to learn more about your future home buying experience or refinance your current mortgage. Cross Country Mortgage, LLC, NMLS 3029. All loans subject to underwriting approval. www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. All right. Next up, one of my favorite journalists. I'm sure one of everybody's favorite journalist in Canada, any hockey fan, Bob McKenzie.

It was an absolute treat to have this guy to come on and tell some stories, and that's what he did, man. He had some epic stories about Wayne Gretzky and guys wanting to fight him in the locker room, all kinds of stuff. So without further ado, we're going to send it over to Uncle Bobby, Bobby Margarita. Well, it's a real honor to bring on our next guest. For my money, he's the best hockey reporter

the sport has ever seen over the last 40 years you've read him in print and online you've seen him on tsn and nbc and you've heard him break down the draft and free agency with equal aplomb thanks so much for joining us in the spitting chiclets podcast bob mckenzie how are you doing my friend excellent ra that was a very fine introduction. Well read. You used some really big words, the plumb. So it's obvious that Biz has been helping you out with that. Oh, you're taking shots already? Okay, Bobby Margarita. I was going to say, which nickname should we have given you off the hop here? Because I hear that you create one with alcohol you're drinking at the time.

Bobby Margarita being a more famous one online, of course. Yeah, and the funny thing is I drink a lot more wine than Margarita, but the one year after free agency, it was like July 1st, free agency, it's over. I get to the cottage, and just for a l lark I might have mixed up a margarita and and on twitter I just changed my name instead of Bob McKenzie at TSM Bob McKenzie just said Bobby Margarita and everybody kind of went nuts and kind of stuck so um it's it's actually kind of funny but I've had a lot of nicknames some of them not so complimentary over the years but that's one of them.

You must be switched over to the Reds by now, though, with the weather cooling down a bit. I stick with Reds year round. Bob, I heard that you can give the advice on any great bottle of wine under 50 bucks. And considering how well your career has gone, you have not turned into a wine snob. Oh, I'm a bit of a wine snob but not a big one i don't know that much i know what i like and i i try to learn more and get more involved i'll tell you what i am is is a this is a bad thing to admit but i'm a wine glass snob i would rather drink a 30 bottle of wine out of an 80 glass than an 80 bottle of wine out of an $80 glass than an $80 bottle

of wine out of a $30 glass. There's these glasses called Zalto. They're one piece. The stem is really thin and they're really strong, but it really enhances the douchey wine drinking experience. Not a mason jar?

No, not a mason jar. I've been known to drink rum and Cokes out of a mason jar. But I've got one of these, and there's another one. They've got different types. This is way off topic early on, but what the hell, here we go. It's an actual glass that doesn't have a stem, and it's got a little bit of a flat spot on the bowl of the thing. So you can hold onto this wine glass and swirl it, and it's got just a little knob on the bowl of the thing. So you can hold onto this wine glass and swirl it.

And it's got like just a little knob on the bottom and it's got a flat spot on the side. So you can lay down on a 45 degree angle with the wine in it and it sits perfectly. And my pal, Frank Cervelli at TSN thinks it's a great glass. And he said to me, you know, that glass has just the right amount of douche in it. And it's so true.

I still love it. That's my type of glass, Biz. That's my type of glass. Biz would drink Camus out of a Solo cup, so you don't even worry about him. We're already making them with Chiclets logos on them as we speak. We'll have you sign a couple. There's some of your books.

I can't believe I'm on with a legend that has i i sent with a month or two ago i was driving from where i live on balsam lake into tsn and i was driving right through port perry and and there's a place called the trading post there and they've got a big billboard out and it's usually like you know coconut coconut shrimp 3.99 a pound or whatever and and blazing in big letters it's like we have pink whitney here so i i took a picture of the sign and sent it to wit because i knew he'd get a kick out of it i said you truly are a legend you made it yeah even in port even in port perry you're on a goddamn billboard. Yeah, Pink Whitney made it up there. You left out the part that you just ripped it right in there to grab a bottle. But I think it's funny.

You bring up, like, July 1st and get into your cabin. And for so long now, you've done the whole season, the deadline, the cup finals, then the free agency. Has it always been that after that, boom, you're shutting it down, no phone? Are you putting the phone away? Are you not even checking texts and stuff yeah for the most part but i mean you gotta yeah exactly when you were on you never fully put it away but yeah you would send the very strong message and the longer the longer you're yeah the longer i was at tsn and and what have you but actually there's a funny story on that so I was

working at the Toronto Star and the Hockey News I always had two jobs most of the time at the Hockey News they used to call me two job Bob because I had I had a full-time job at the Hockey News and later the Toronto Star and then back at the Hockey News but I was also working like almost full-time hours at TSN that was through the late 80s and all of the 90s. So in around 2000, I, it was just crazy, too much work, getting too much. And I told TSN, listen, either you guys are going to have to hire me, you're going to have to buy all my time, or I'm out of here. And so we were having a negotiation. And as part of that, I put in part of the negotiation that I get nine weeks off in the summer, that from July 2nd, the day after free agency,

until the day after labor day, I'm off. And so one of the, one of the, the guy was negotiating with was fine with it, but there was another guy at TSN and he looked at it and he wanted to know why that was the case. So the, the, one of the big bosses said to me you're gonna have to talk to this guy and kind of massage him a little bit because he doesn't think you should get the whole summer off he thinks it's ridiculous so I'm having that conversation and he goes okay explain to me why you need all of July and all of August off and I said well you

know it's a really demanding job and I've been doing it a long time and I want to do it a long time and if you don't allow yourself to recharge, the burnout factor would be really huge. And, you know, I've got to worry about my health and I want to do this for a really long time. And he goes, and the guy, the guy was totally unimpressed. And he's like, yeah, well, you know what? We all work hard and we all work a hundred hours a week and I don't get to, I don't get to two months of the year off. You know, so, you. So convince me otherwise.

And nobody knows your name, bud. I said, okay, here's another way to go about it then. I currently have a full-time job at the Hockey News, and I've got a full-time job at TSN. And if you don't hire me here, I'm quitting, and I'm going to work at the Hockey News full-time. And if I don't get the two months off, then I i'm gone and he goes okay i like that answer a lot better maybe he just wanted to hear you say it and then and then you became the bob father at that at that

moment there you got the night it was like the door shutting at the end of the real godfather yeah or when two is that two ra when the wife's looking at him becoming like the monster yeah Like the door shutting at the end of The Real Godfather? Yeah. Is that 2RA? When the wife's looking at him becoming like the monster? Yeah, no, that's the end of 2, yeah, when he shuts the door in case. He got home that night, the horse's head is in his bed. Okay, you went a little far, man. Jesus. Bob, I want to ask, how hard is it just to kind of downshift that scoop switch after 40 years and not impulsively report on everything that you've been doing?

You know what? There's an element of that. I will grant you that. It was a weird year to semi-retire because of the pandemic. I was supposed to be off July 2nd and be done, but we hadn't even had the return to play in July 2nd. I went back and worked for a few weeks late late July or early August and then on August 10th or 11th I was I was done semi-retired um and and so right after that I was still like you know somebody might call me and say hey this is going

on and I'm like oh I gotta tell somebody and I'm like no I don't and and that but it wasn't that difficult because part of the reason why I wanted to semi-retire is because I didn't want to be a slave to my phone. I didn't want to go to a family function and worry about everything that was going on. It's all consuming and it just wears you down after a while. And so, you know, and some of it's really fun. Like if you get a really big scoop or it's a trade or something with a lot of juice, you're really charged up and excited about it. But the reality is, and, and, and my pals, Darren Drager and Pierre Lebrun, Frank Cervalli,

and the guys that do this at the other networks and everywhere else, what they're going through right now is more of what it's really all about. And that is this day-to-day hell of, okay, are we playing? When are we playing? When's the season going to start? What's the, what's it going to look like? And day it's groundhog day and and you're there and you're harassing the people from the league and you're harassing the people from the clubs you're harassing the guys from the PA and you're trying to get that information and more days than not it's just like it's like a death march and you're like this is terrible this is a terrible way to

live my life I'm spending 10-12 hours a day and I got nothing to show for it at the end. And we all know at some point they're going to play and we're going to have the thing, but you're, you're, you're, you're just constantly trying to figure it out. I was going to ask what was your favorite story to break? And then what was one that you had to hold back that was so big, but you thought that it might've burnt a personal relationship. And, and if you can't say it now all good but what had there ever been one you know what is it's really funny and and um i get asked a lot by young people in the business or you know

journalism schools or whatever when i talk to young people uh you know what advice i might have for them and and one of the things that I've come to learn because of questions that you just asked is take, keep a journal, right? Write shit down because honestly, I get this question a lot since I've retired, you know, what's the biggest story ever broke? I don't, I don't remember. I don't remember hardly any of them. I'm sure if I really sat down and really thought about it or or went through you know went through tsn.ca the the archive stories or whatever

or my twitter account that oh yeah that was really big or that but now that I'm here I don't really remember many of them uh I'll tell you what the one of the hardest stories I ever broke was and that I didn't want to break, but I did was when TSN lost the national rights for Rogers. And, and I was, I was coming back from a CHL Ontario hockey league stars versus the Russians in November. It was in Sudbury and I was driving in a snowstorm down highway, the 400, Highway 69. And I knew we were losing the rights. And I officially got it nailed partway home on that

ride. And it was like a full-fledged blizzard. So now I pulled over to the side of the road in this, you know, crazy blizzard. and i'm there with my old blackberry with my hard keyboard and my two thumbs and i'm typing out tweets that basically says tsn's out of the national is out of the national rights game um and so i forget how many years ago it was probably what five six years ago six years maybe i'm not sure but that was 14 that was a really hard one that was a really hard one to um to to break but i had it nailed and so i broke it you broke my trade from fucking anaheim uh to edmonton so everyone knows i got dealt from pittsburgh to anaheim and then i'm there and then you know we actually had a pretty good run that playoff but then the next season we stunk i stunk pronger was gone and i'm being told all right well you're not getting traded you're not getting traded and all of a sudden at like 2 30 you wrote um was new ski and ryan whitney

and anaheim look people say and put i'm like yes and then the 3 30 eastern i don't even know how those things happened 30 minutes later with bob mccarthy Whitney to Edmonton I was like oh my god that's how you found out through his tweet yeah oh man so I don't even I I don't even remember uh again no you never would you've done it I mean how many of those have you done I but but if somebody asked me how did you break that Witt story? I probably would have said, yeah, well, Witt told me or his dad told me. Exactly. Yeah. Witt called right when he heard, let me know. Let me break the news. How is the old man, by the way? He's good. He told me to say hello for people who I guess nobody knows,

but you and him became buddies at Halifax, one of the most electric atmosphere world juniors in the history of the tournament yeah we started there and uh and then I think we got hooked up at your draft we knew the draft party or whatever yeah yeah that was before that tournament you're right that was that summer before yeah and then we um we because your brother played at Cornell and my son Mike played at st lawrence and they played against each other i would uh be in the rinks and we uh we started hanging out and we actually had uh whitney mckenzie uh went out for a bit of a rip in in canton new york and that was

the better night uh yeah at the hol. So it's a great spot. And I think we might have done the same in Ithaca. What were the – this is what happens when you get to be 64, you forget things. But the twins at Cornell that played with your brother. The Devon brothers. The Devon brothers. Yeah, yeah. Chuck Devon.

Chuck Devon, yeah. Great people. And actually, and I Chuck, Devin. Yeah. So I went, Oh, and actually, and I think we, we might've been in Canton. There might've been one in Hamilton, New York too, but anyways, lots, lots, lots of good times with, with, with Chuck and your dad and what have you. So give my best to him for sure. He's a great guy. I will. They, they all that world junior also big Dan Whitney came off to me, he came up to me after one of the games,

he had somehow been sitting near or with Scotty Bowman. He's like, your son's a hell of a player. He's like, Bo, Scotty Bowman said you're good. It's unbelievable. Scotty Bowman. I was so fired up. That's awesome. Bob, the job at its essence is pretty much the same,

but the technology has definitely made it a lot easier. But are there any aspects of the job you wish kind of stayed old school? Well, the technology has made it easier, I guess, but it's also made it harder. And when I say harder, more work. Because what happened is in the media before, like the media guys used to be just on the clock. So, you know, and you would punch out.

So if you were a hockey writer and you covered the team, you'd go to practice you'd write your story and you'd go home and that would be it probably for the day um same thing you go to do a game so you go cover a game game's over you file your story you go home boom it's done you know along the way social media the internet i i mean i'm so old that i remember being at the hockey news and you know the reporters used to mail their stories to us you know that's how out of date stuff was um or they'd use a telecopier which was the forerunner of a fax faxes hadn't even been

invented it took either four minutes or six minutes to send a page and the quality was terrible but we'd get that and then somebody would have to type it into a system at the other end. And that's how we would get the stories. So, you know, the advent of the internet and ultimately social media turned everybody into having immediate news breaking capability in your hand. And, you know, where before the only way to find out what was going on in another city was to pick up your hardwired phone and call another reporter on his hardwired phone and talk about what's going on in another city was to pick up your hardwired phone and call another reporter and on his hardwired phone and talk about what's going on in his city and and now it's like you know i can if you follow the right people you can you get real-time updates in practice hey sydney crosby just blocked a shot in practice he's gone to the room hold their breath oh it's okay he's back he just had a pee it's yeah so it's just it's just endless now and so so and and that's a good thing i guess for news and information but

in terms of how much more everybody has to work i i feel bad for beat writers they used to have the easiest not the easiest job in the world but they used to have a great job just go to practice file a story call it a day go go to the bar, you know, and that's back when hockey players actually drank after practice. So did the media. But now it's like you're never off. You know, guys like Mike Russo and others, it's 24-7, baby. You know, you got to know everything that's going on all the time.

You mentioned the earlier days. I was talking to Sean about this funny story regarding Gretzky during the series with the Leafs, when he was playing with the Los Angeles Kings, you probably know what story I'm talking about. That was ended up printed in one of the newspapers. Oh yeah. That was, you want me to tell that story? Oh, I want you to tell the whole thing, because I think these guys are going to have quite the chuckle.

Okay, so I go to the... I'm working at TSN and the Toronto Star simultaneously. It's the 93 Stanley Cup playoffs. And part of my deal, and the star didn't love it, but it was part of my deal was, listen, in May, I've got to go cover the Memorial Cup for TSN. We had the rights to the Memorial Cup. So I was off doing the Memorial Cup and the Leaf Series with the Kings started.

And I was picking it up in, I want to say, picking it up in game five at Maple Leaf Gardens. So I I'm just parachuted in, but you know, I'm a pro. So I'm, I make sure I do my homework. I called, I called, you know, I think I probably talked to Barry Melrose and talk to whoever there was the GM of the Kings at the time. I forget now. And, and you know, Cliff Fletcher and, and time, I forget now, and, you know, Cliff Fletcher and Pat Burns and media people. And so I had a really good feel for what happened in the first four games. So I didn't feel like I was going in too cold.

So it's game five and it looks like it's going to overtime now. So I kind of decided before the night started, I'm a columnist, I got to have some ideas. Before the night started, the two themes for me were as follows. On the Kings side, Gretzky was playing okay, but not like Gretzky. And Dave Andruschuk wasn't really doing a lot for, hadn't done a lot for the Leafs, and he was their 50-goal guy and whatever. So I had it in my mind that if either one of these guys didn't have a good game that might be a really good column to do so as the game wore on I didn't think Gretzky was playing particularly well and I didn't think Andrzejczak

was playing very well so games going to overtime but I'm on deadline and so the deal is like you don't have a lot of time to do a column so in the intermission between the end of regulation and the start of overtime I basically had to write two columns one if they one if the kings win and one if andrew sorry if the leafs win and so so I started writing and I wrote a column about grit the framework of a column about Gretzky. And I wrote a framework of a column about Andrzej Czach. And both of them, I wouldn't say they were rip jobs, because I'm usually not a guy that rips people crazily. But, you know, they were critical pieces that if the Leafs lose, then Andrzej Czach needed to do more and needs to do more.

They're going to lose this series. And if the Kings lose, Gretzky needs to do more and needs to do more they're going to lose this series and if the kings lose gretzky needs to do more and and on so i as i said i felt pretty good about both columns but it's hard to write a column that fast anyways as fate would have it um the leaf score in overtime and so it's the gretzky piece that uh that goes so now the first edition of it i just send it without any quotes and and i thought i was being like really respectful because it's it's goddamn wayne gretzky you better be respectful um and and so i basically said listen i'm not saying gretzky's washed up i'm not saying that he stinks i'm not saying any of these things but i'm just telling you he you know looks to me like there's something wrong with him but if there's not you know

whatever and i and i did a critical analysis of some shift by shift stuff and i said the line that was in there that really ended up becoming the touchstone was he's skating around like he's got a piano on his back so so the piece runs i go down to the room and i thought i better go talk to brett and and find out if there's something wrong with him or whatever so i go to the king's room in maple leaf gardens and i i'm asking him and i could tell as soon as i asked him he looked he he gave me the little you know hairy eyeball look and as if to say like, why are you asking that? He goes, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. Everything's good. And I'm like, oh, OK.

And so I go up and I put his quotes in or whatever and send it off. So so the story goes and now we're flying the next day to L.A. and we're going for game six. And I hear through the grapevine that Wayne's not too happy and mike barnett's not too happy as agent the piano in the back line didn't go over very well um and and and and wayne is wayne always knew knew everything that was said about him and and i used to joke that you know wayne had rabbit ears and thin skin um in addition to being like the greatest player ever played the game so anyways the story goes now it's game six and of course that's the famous game where carrie fraser would tell you about the rest of it you know over time the high stick on gilmore doesn't get called and we're going back for game seven to

maple leaf gardens so i can remember it's saturday morning and by now i've heard very strongly that team gretzky is livid like livid and i'm like oh boy you really want to piss off all right we're moving we're moving out of canada now yeah so anyways i'm like i'm like okay so i remember it was saturday morning and i can remember very clearly i was going to get my hair cut and the guy was cutting my hair says oh big game tonight game seven leafs kings and and keep in mind if the leafs win this they're going to the stanley cup final against the montreal canadians it's going to be a Toronto-Montreal Stanley Cup final.

And so I'm getting my haircut and the guy's going, oh man, it's going to be so awesome. I think the Leafs are going to win tonight. And I said, nope. And he goes, what do you mean? I go, no, they're not going to win. And he goes, yeah, I think they're good. I go, not a fucking chance. And he goes, why? And I go,

because Gretzky's really really really pissed off and when gretzky gets pissed off oh it's gonna be all over i said it's gonna be so bad for the tonight yeah and and of course what happened wayne gretzky i forget the goals and points you guys can look it up but I know he had three goals. Yeah, and the last one, he came around from behind the net and he banked it off Dave Ellett's back of his leg intentionally and into the net. And I still am not sure, but I have a funny feeling that he looked up at the press box briefly after he did that.

But the gist of the story is that he played what he will tell you was the greatest game of hockey he's ever played in the National Hockey League, Game 7 against the Toronto Maple Leafs. That's a great story that you're behind part of that. So now I go down to the – now, I should have gone to the King's room to let him say or do whatever he was going to do. But I'm working for the Toronto Star, and the story, as much as it was Gretzky torpedoing the Leafs, I had to go to the Leafs room and talk to Wendell Clark and Doug Gilmore and Pat Burns and whatever. I didn't have a lot of time. So I went down and I did that.

Clark and Doug Gilmore and Pat Burns and whatever I didn't have a lot of time so I went down and I did that and um I went into the room and I I want to say it was Mark Osborne who was playing for the least of time and he looked at me and he goes this is all your fault and he wasn't he was not kidding you pissed him off and and this is what this is what became of it so I'm like okay back up to the thing and then I finished put the quotes in call it a night whatever so now I'm like, okay, back up to the thing. And then I finished, put the quotes in, call it a night, whatever. So now I'm going to cover this. And Gretzky afterwards was quoted as saying, you know, the piano man had one more tune. I don't know if it was Gretzky.

Mike Barnett, I think, was quoted as saying to somebody, the piano man had one more tune in him or something. And whatever. I think Gretzky might've said in a post-game interview like nice that I got the I got the piano off you got the nice idea you got the piano off his back so but but it goes a step further so now I'm going to Montreal for the cup final Kings and Canadians Canadians have got the home ice advantage so they're starting in Montreal and and but I didn't i wasn't there for the media day i was going in the day after i had something to do with tsn or something so i was going in for

the first day and the media day was the day before and it's not like media day now where it's like you know every player it's like a couple of guys get interviewed and gretzky of course was going to be one of them and um and and gretz more or less teed off on me at the media day. And, and, and so I was like, okay, whatever. And you know what I mean? You guys won Wayne, relax. And no, but hey, it all goes into territory. And the funny story is that before games, before game seven in Toronto, LA, I wrote that column that I wrote.

Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun actually wrote a column that was like off the charts more critical than what I was. And we sometimes joke about it that I got all this attention, you know, focus, whatever. And his kind of flew right under the radar, but that's another story. So anyways, during the cup final, I got the strong sense that when I was in a scrum that Wayne was not talking to me or looking at me, which was unusual because I'd known Wayne a long time and he was always, he's the best. Like in terms of media relations, you're not going to get a better, to have was always he's the best like in terms of media relations

you're not going to get a better to have the best player in the game like that be as good as he was with the media as often as he was was just incredible so I knew I was in the doghouse and he was pissed off but that was fine and I went back and reread the column many times and in fact I cut the column out and I put it in my wallet after the fact to carry it around with me as a reminder that if you do your homework and you're confident in what you're doing um you know you got nothing to apologize to anybody for the next year I remember um I didn't have occasion to run into Wayne face to face or whatever but the next time that I did cross paths with him was when he was about to break 40 house record. And I got sent by the star to LA. And so I was there and. I hadn't seen him or talked to him the whole time. And he,

of course he broke it that night and we're all in the room for the. Big media room in LA. And there's famous pictures of Gretz. You always remember he had the white suspenders on and he had his, he took his top half off. he took his skates off, but he had his pants and his shin pads still on. And he came into the room and he saw me and he looked and I looked at him and I was like, I wonder what he's going to say or do here. And he just came over and he gave me a little bit of a hug and he said, Hey, Pop, thanks very much for coming on. I really appreciate it. It's great to have you here. And I was like, okay, we're all good now. Nice.

I don't have to go through the rest of the press. I know from experience, there's no worse feeling in the world than a reporter coming up to you and saying, hey, you injured? You feeling healthy? You're just like, is it that bad? Cover the feet, Ryan. Oh, man. Bob, do folks in Toronto still blame you for the drought? A lot of people do. It's funny. Yeah, do folks in Toronto still blame you for the drought? A lot of people do.

It's funny. Yeah, we had that one. Kerry Fraser and Bob McKenzie, they screwed up the dream season in 93. That was unbelievable hockey. Leaf team was so much fun to watch. Wendell and Dougie Gilmore. Oh, my God. And against the Kings.

And Wendell was just a beast in that series. And so was Gilmore and oh my God. And against the Kings and Wendell was just a beast in that series. And so it was Gilmore. And that was, you know, the dead puck era kind of started shortly thereafter that the game really took a turn for the worse. You know, we went through that stretch of like four or five Stanley cup finals that were sweeps, you know, and it was at 95, 96 or in and around there. um you know and it was at 95 96 or in and around there and uh but 93 was uh was a fantastic time to watch the national hockey league and the kings and the leaps and the canadians and to think of the fun even in that final you know with the stick measurement and you know that you know

you know shit like that doesn't happen now um i read today about this phil esposito story and that was kind of old school as well i don't know how many people who are listening know this but this was a little bit more intense than the gretzky situation that's for sure yeah this one got up to the level uh long story if i if i like those ones okay so we're trying to think what's the best order to tell this story and so phil was the boss man of the tampa bay lightning and i knew ph Phil and and two things I should point out the first thing I should point out as I tell this story me and Phil are great right now no no problems there which is which is good because as a kid growing up in Canada in the 1972 Summit Series I was 16

years old and and and when Phil Esposito went off on the fans in Vancouver after game four, because they got booed off the ice, I was sitting at home going, yeah, you tell them, Phil, don't be booing Team Canada. And Phil, for me, the big bad Bruins, and I love Bobby Orr, and Esposito on the slot. And Phil was one of my all-time great hockey heroes, which made it that much more difficult to charge him with assault, I guess. But I was working at the Toronto Star,

and I want to say it was right around the same time. I forget what year it was, 92, 93, whatever, 94, whenever the Lightning were in the league. But anyways, so Phil was getting a rough ride from a what we what you guys were a lot of people like to refer to as the canadian media which in many cases back then was always the toronto media and and i'd written some stuff about phil um the one thing that really stuck in his craw when i was at the hockey news i wrote a column and i said time for for confession, I think Espo is a lousy GM. And it was basically a story saying that, you know,

I thought that Jimmy Rutherford and Peter Carmanos and the CompuWare group should have gotten the franchise in Florida, not Phil and the Japanese owners. And I thought they made a mistake. The league made a mistake when they did that. And then I talked a little bit about how Phil became persona non grata in Sault Ste. Marie, his hometown. I covered the Sioux Greyhounds. I'm not from the Sioux, but covered them back then. And, and, you know,

Phil was in trouble with his hometown guys. Cause he was, he, he was, he owned the Greyhounds and then he was, I think, you know, things didn't go well and he wanted to move the team and people were like you know really upset about that so i did write some stuff that must have ticked phil off but i i think phil got it in his mind that i probably was responsible for every bad thing that had been written about him since he took over the tampa bay lightning from the toronto media and the canadian media so i always say this is Basil McRae's fault because Basil McRae broke his leg really badly that season. And it was after the game. The game was over.

Toronto, Tampa, Maple Leaf Gardens. I'd done my story. It wasn't a particularly earth-shattering night. The only reason I went to the Tampa Bay Lightning dressing room because I wanted to go see Rob Ramage and get a phone call, a phone number for Basil McRae to see if Basil had a badly broken leg. I wanted to see how Basil was doing. So I go down and I'm talking to Rob Ramage and asking about Basil. And all of a sudden Phil comes into the room and he sees me and he looks at me and you could tell he was fired up. His cheeks were red and

his eyes were kind of like, and he's like, he goes, you get the fuck out of my room. And he's like, you, get the fuck out of my room. And I'm like, whoa, where did this come from? What's going on? I don't even know he's mad at me, never mind Raging Bull. And so I'm like, Phil, what's the problem? You just get out of here. I don't want you in here.

This is my room. You get out. And so now I got my back up. And I'm like, Phil, I said, I'm allowed to be in the dressing room. I'm just talking to Rob here. I'm just trying to get Basil McRae's number. And he's going, get the fuck out of here. And I go, no, I'm not getting out. You know, it's true. He's yelling at me and I'm yelling at him. And, you know, he's coming towards me rather menacingly. And and and and I'm like a little bit backing up a little bit like it fills a big man and and and all of a sudden i realized this thing's escalated he's he's not messing around here and you know he comes up and he basically kind of he would say he shoved me i would say that

he drilled me in the neck lower jaw jaw area with the heel of his hand. That's a pretty big discrepancy. Just like one of these? Yeah, one of those. Let's get rough and rowdy going, G. Hit me in the jaw, the neck, and whatever. And he knocked me down. That's shocking.

So I'm going back. And I managed to hold myself from going completely down. I got my arms to brace my fall and I was there and I was kind of like laying back like this and Phil's like coming after me again. And I'm like, Oh my. So I jump up really quick. And now Rob Ramage and a couple of other guys jump on his back and they've got them and I'm looking at him and he's like trying to get at me and he's swearing and yelling at me. And I'm like, Oh, Jesus Christ.

You don't want to kill me. What am I? What's what's my play here? Like, it's funny, the things that go through your mind. I just, I'd only been working at TSN for like four or five, six years. And it was part-time. So it's funny, the things that go through your mind, but I was there and I thought I might have to fight for us. You don't hear like, I'm not a tough guy. I'm the opposite of tough I'm soft like I got I got cut from my minor Bantam team because I was too soft and and so I'm not I'm under no illusion whatsoever that I'm a tough guy but if somebody's gonna do harm to you you might have to stand up for yourself at some point and so I'm I'm weighing

the thing do I and i had this one moment where he was right there and i thought like i could punch phyllis right in the nose so hard right now because his arms were being held it wouldn't be the sucker i needed all that i needed all the help i could get you would have been that that's good that's good uh holding yourself back. So all my TV money flashed before my eyes. And I decided, no, I'm not going to do it. And he's yelling, get out, get out, get out. And I go, no, I'm not getting out. And Rob Ramage finally said to me, Bob, would you get the hell out of here?

And I go, okay, Rob, since you asked nicely, I will. So I leave and I go out. And I'm like, whoa, what just happened? So I was pretty rattled. And so I walked out and I'm walking I walked out by the Wood Street exit of Maple Leaf Garden didn't leave the building I'm just out there and I'm kind of catching my breath and I'm going okay what the hell just went down there okay I go I better go back and try to sort this out so I I went back in and Phil was outside the Tampa Bay dressing room and I go Phil I go calm down and he looks at me goes now fuck you and I'm like calm down I go

let's talk about this and that he goes I'm not going to talk about it and just get the hell out of here or whatever and I said I and he was he was really you know angry and i understood that but i was like phil i said you know let's try and sort this out and he goes no i'm not talking to you get out of here and i go i go i okay fine i said i should just go charge you with assault right now and he goes go ahead do whatever you want and at that point he might have made some disparaging remarks about my um my my rather robust frame um he he and and at this and this was happening in front i don't know if you've ever been know the maple leaf gardens visiting dressing room thing but all the family of the team is like 15 feet away like they're witnessing this whole thing

and we're f-ing each other and he's and i Phil, I go, I'm trying to settle this, you know, and sort of, we've known each other a long time, but if you want me to, if you want me to go the other route, I said, do it. He says, do whatever you want. He goes, you're nothing. I'm Phil Esposito. You can't do anything to me. And I, and that was it. I, so it, it went off for me and I said, okay, I said, that's how you want to handle it. Fine. And I said, and you just remember this, you just remember this. I said, you you fucked with the wrong guy, Phil. And we'll see you later. And I walked out. And I walked around the corner, there was a payphone. And I picked up the phone, I dialed 911. And I called the Metro Toronto Police. They answered yes. And I said, Yeah, I will connect you with the police. I'd like to report an assault. And I and i called and i said hi it's bob mckenzie i work for the toronto star and i was just assaulted by phyllis and zito maple leaf gardens i'd like him arrested and guys like part

and so anyways that any jerky boys prank call so so of course now he now he gets word that the word starts to filter out that I've done this and whatever. So I guess he went back to the Harbour Castle West and got his stuff and jumped in a car and went to Buffalo. He was on the road. He was on the run. So he hit the road or whatever. And Jerry Helper, who's a great guy, he's now in Nashville. He was the PR director for the Lightning at the time. He's talking to me and says, you know, hey, listen,

can we try and straighten this out? And I said, I wanted to straighten it out. Phil didn't want to straighten it out. He got the ball rolling. So I'm sorry, this ball's in rolling now. So screw up. You know, that's that. And so anyways, so the whole thing rolled out and it's quite

a story because after the fact frosty forestall who was of course the great trainer the for the bruins bobby ors pal and and whatever you know frosty started telling people he still never touched him he tripped on an equipment bag um and uh and and there was a whole bunch of double talk coming out and you had the boys club going they had the boys come it's like it's like the skulls at yale yeah you you want to better believe it and that so you know the star was behind me 100 i hired my lawyer um you know and and this all kind of don cherry on Saturday night, went on hockey night and can and rip me for, you know, this is not how you settle a problem. You know, you settle things face to face and I'm thinking to myself,

I tried to do that until didn't want to do it. You needed Twitter during all this. That would have been interesting. Oh no, no, you do not. Thank God. Ryan Leaf. You think that Ryan Leaf yelling at the guy's bad. This is the, imagine the video of this biz. Exists at the time. So anyways, and then it got even more complicated because a member of the Tampa Bay, the somebody who covered the lightning on the beat for one of their papers,

he ended up, and if my memory serves me correct, it might've been a sworn affidavit, or if not, he certainly was interviewed by the Toronto police and told them the same frosty forestal story that I tripped on an equipment bag. And I wasn't very happy about that. So now my back's really up. So I'm taking it on the chin from a lot of people. Don Cherry on national television. Everybody in hockey you know what the as you say so close society they're like this is not how we settle things you don't bring outside people in to settle it internally and i said well i i knew in my heart i tried to settle it internally and phil didn't want to and he said

i couldn't do anything to him well let's see's see about that. So anyways, long story short, I guess at some point, the long story long is this one, but the lightning, I guess the lawyers for the lightning probably at some point told Phil, this could be really problematic for you because there were many witnesses that did see it. And this is dead to rights assault whatever way you slice it and you're a canadian who works in the u.s on a green card or whatever if you get convicted of assault you could lose your green card you could lose your ability to travel back and forth between

canada united states so now all of a sudden i'm getting all sorts of calls from people saying we should be able to settle this and and what have you and the lightning were kind of reaching out or whatever and i'm like no i said it's so anyways the court date was set and it was the day after the lightning were playing a game in toronto their next time they were coming in and so um it got down to a day or two before the game and and i a number of people in hockey had reached out and and said would you not meet face to face with phil i said yeah okay i will day of the game phil and his lawyers and me and my lawyers we met in a bay street uh law office and basically you know phil just saw me and he goes hey things have escalated they got way out of hand i said yeah saw me and he goes, Hey, things have escalated. They got way out of hand. I said, yeah, they did. And he goes,

I just want to forget about it all. Just put it all behind us. I know it's been hard on you and your family. I don't want any more trouble. I don't want you to have any more trouble. And I said, well, that's great. Phil. I said, fair enough. So I, all you need to do is apologize. And he says, Oh, I just apologized. And I said, no. And I had my lawyer had said to me ahead of time,

what would it take for you to drop the charges against Phil? And I said, okay. So I had crafted a letter of apology. And it was a long letter of apology because it went to everything. Bob McKenzie did not trip on an equipment bag. Bob McKenzie did not write things about Phil's family. So there was a laundry list of four or five things that I wanted on the record

that everything, the aftermath of that, it was all bullshit basically. And for Phil to admit that he did strike me and he did knock me down and I didn't trip on an equipment bag. So Phil read the letter and he looked at it and he goes, I'm not signing that. And I go, good, then go to the game tonight.

And we'll see you in court tomorrow. And, uh, Now you had him bent over. And then he was, so he was like, man, his lawyers are talking to him. And then we split up for a little bit and we come back and he goes, okay. And I said, I go, Phil, I go, I wanted to settle it that night. You wanted to escalate it. I said, you said I couldn't do anything to you because you were Phil and I was a nobody. And I go, well, now I told you, yes,

but the wrong guy. And now here we are. And now who's got to come to the other guy to try and get them out of a jam. I said, so I said, let's get out of the jam, just sign the letter of apology. And, and when we go to the game tonight after the game, stand outside the dressing room, we'll stand there together and then we'll tell the media that we settled our differences and we're not going to court tomorrow.

And he goes, yeah, perfect, and that was that. So as I say, I really liked Phil. I always liked Phil. But we had it out, and he got my Irish up. And, you know, what happens when the Irish and the Italians get together? It can be really good. Don't ask R.A. back to Charlestown. Charlestown's not then.

I don't know if this is a great comparison of scoring your first NHL goal for you. Do you remember your first big scoop? Something where you remember noticeably thinking, oh my God, I'm one of the guys in this game that's going to be breaking this. You know what, honestly, no idea. None whatsoever. It just happened over time where you became like the guy. Yeah, and as I said, I should have kept notes

because I'm not ever going to write a book about my career. I've written some books, but not like a retrospective of my career. And maybe part of the reason why I wouldn't do that is because I just don't have enough notes to back stuff up and I've forgotten so much stuff and it all just kind of runs together. Well, you just mentioned the books you wrote, written yet another book. You're pretty prolific off of yourself. Your latest everyday hockey heroes, volume two. Tell us about this one.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, the first book I wrote was called crazy. It was called a hockey dad, true confessions of a Crazy Question Mark, Hockey Dad. And that one came out like 10, 12 years ago. And that was the book I enjoyed writing the most because it was a labor of love, you know, raising my two boys, Mike and Sean, through the minor hockey system. And I sometimes did some really crazy shit as a hockey dad.

But I like to think on balance that I got it figured out along the way that it wasn't too, too bad. And it was a pretty good experience for me and my kids. But I really wanted that book to come out. And I was sort of like, this is who I am. This is who my kids are. This is what we did. And this was sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

But we all enjoyed it. And it was great. Then I did Hockey Confidential, which was a series of the good, the bad and the ugly, but we, we all enjoyed it and it was great. Then I did hockey confidential, which was a series of stories about people in hockey. And, and I, I really am proud of the book, but, and that was seven or eight years ago, but the reason I did it was because I needed a new kitchen at the cottage. And, and so that was the money that would pay for that. Fucking rights, buddy.

And that's when I realized, you know, when you're writing a book just for the money, it's, that's when i realized you know what when you're writing a book just for the money it's it's it's hard hard hard work it's not a labor of love anymore it's just labor and i was really busy with my job and it really took a physical toll on me getting that book out but i got it out i'm really proud of it but i said then i said that's it i'm never writing another book you know too much work for too little money. It's great when you finish it, but as long as I've got a job, full-time job,

there's writing a book on top of that, it's just too much. I'm never ever going to do it again. And I had lots of offers and stuff. I didn't do it. It was three years ago, Simon and Schuster Canada came to me and said, hey, we're doing a book project.

We've already started it. It's called Everyday Hockey Heroes. It's stories of famous, not so famous hockey people, inspiring stories on and off the ice. They showed me a couple of chapters. And it was a different kind of book. It was about, you know, overcoming adversity or just an inspiring story. And I like good storytelling. And Jim Lang had already started doing some of the stories and Sarah St. Pierre is the editor. They showed me some sample chapters. I said, this is really cool. I kind of like this. And what appealed to me was they said,

you would only have to write the introduction. You'd only have to write one chapter. You would have huge input into who we would write the other stories about. And you would orchestrate getting interviews with those people and you would promote the hell out of the book. Would you be interested? And I said, yeah, I would. And cynically part of the reason when I, not interested and i said yeah i would and cynically part of the reason when i'm not gonna lie when i first thought yeah if i don't have to write that much um i can sort of be an editorial director of the book and and be involved in all that with

jim and jim's great and sarah's great so it was fun so we did everyday hockey heroes volume one and it was really good and lots of inspiring stories and now we they decided you know what two years later we're going to come out with it again so i'm i'm really proud of the book because obviously there's a lot of shit that has gone on in the world but hockey as well and we talk a lot about hockey culture and i know everybody goes back and forth on that and and you know hockey culture does you know i've been a big part of hockey culture, but I'd be the first to admit that hockey culture does need to be better, a lot better in a lot of instances. And I don't think people need to be, hockey people don't need to be triggered when they hear that the hockey culture sucks sometimes. It does. Doesn't mean it's rotten to the core, but it needs fixing in a whole bunch of areas.

And so a lot of the stories in the book, not all of them, but a lot of the stories in this book reflect that. And so, you know, there's stories about guys I grew up playing hockey against that were black that didn't have the same minor hockey experience that I have in a quite white Scarborough 50 years ago. You know, there are stories about gay and transgender athletes. There are, you know, there's a story, but there's also traditional hockey stories.

It's everyday hockey heroes. So I got a story on Andrew Cogliano. And who's an everyday hockey hero? Yeah, he's the one because he showed up every day and he never missed a game until he got suspended. And so he talks about that and reflecting the traditional core values of what we like to think,

what hockey culture at its best commitment dedication sacrifice you know taking one for the team putting yourself ahead of the team playing through injuries playing through pain doing all those things so there's a real wide mix of stories there and Jim Lang did a terrific job Sarah St. Pierre did a terrific job and I learn I've learned so much about people who sometimes they, everybody in this book has an unbelievable passion for the game of hockey. They love the game of hockey, but in some instances, because they're quote unquote different for some reason, they were marginalized or put out to the side a little bit.

And those people had to fight to get where we get to be in the middle of hockey culture for the very simple reason we're white and we're men simple as that so all i you know the theme of the book really is we just need to build a bigger tent and we need to make sure the doors are open for everybody and if we are men and we are white then maybe we all need to take a look in the mirror and say, what am I going to do today to try to make it a more diverse, more inclusive thing? And I think you can do that and confront our own white privilege without being triggered by the word white privilege,

which is nothing more than an observational status of you're white. And in hockey, that's not a roadblock to anything. Being a white man in hockey is the easiest thing in the world. We're not saying anybody's led a privileged lifestyle and have silver spoons in our mouth. We're just saying it's not many obstacles as a white male in the hockey culture. That's a very fair way of putting it.

Very well said, Bob. You did mention your kids. And going back to your first book, the hockey dad situation. Sean told me the story about how you, you and this other coach weren't getting along in minor hockey and the finals, you ended up calling a couple penalties. I'll let you, you know the story for sure. Oh, you're talking to stick measurements. Yeah. Oh yeah. You're cutthroat. If you're doing this in minor hockey, in minor hockey bob come on okay so i'll try to make this quick because i bored you guys

long enough here no we love these old school stories okay no problem so i was actually the assistant coach of the team and it was it was my son mike's team and it was what we used to call the the ringette round which you wouldn't call it now because people that play ringette would get offended by it. But the ringette round was after you got knocked out of the main playoffs, you would go back and into the consolation basically is what it was. It was a consolation playoff and it was the championship of the consolation. And I was an assistant coach and my good buddy,

Sue Seedhouse who's since passed away from pancreatic cancer, one of my best friends. he was the head coach. So we're playing in Berrien, Old Dunlop Arena, which just got demolished recently. And we're losing in the third period. And we're losing by two or three goals, maybe three goals in the third period. And earlier in the series, in our own rink,

I'd seen the stick rack for the other team, the Berry team. By the way, it's minor Adam. They're 10-year-olds. Okay. And it's consolation. And it's consolation bracket. It's consolation. So I saw the stick rack of these other kids,

and they had big banana hooks or whatever. And I just thought, wow, I can't believe those kids have, like, Stan McKee to Bobby host sticks. I never thought anything more of it. So now it's in the third period of the consolation and we're down three. And I said to my buddy, Stu, I go, I go, Hey, I said, let's try and get a little something going here. I go, let's call a stick measurement here.

Just what every kid on this team's got like a hugely illegal. And, and, and what? So anyway, so, so Stu goes, yeah, just what every kid on this team's got like a hugely illegal trick and and that's like what so anyway so so stew goes yeah go ahead so i go okay so so i send out our captain little kenny henry and i say oh ask for a stick measurement on number eight so little kenny henry goes out to the referee and goes up to him and i see him talking to the referee and I see the referee talking to him like this. And the referee looks over at him like, what the fuck? Like seriously. And, and, and, and I just look at him and I go, what's up?

And that, and so now Kenny Henry comes back and no and no he so i see him now i see the referee really talking to kenny and kenny's looking over at the bench at me and he's got these little eyes and he's like so i see him and he goes and he goes okay and he kenny comes over and i said what was he giving a hard time about he goes he says sure i'll call a stick measurement what exactly what part of the stick did you want measured? And so now the referee's trying to one-up me here because technically you have to request, I want a stick measurement on the curve

or I want a stick measurement on the width of the blade or I want a stick measurement on the length of the shaft or whatever. And so Kenny said, curve? And so now he's got, so now the referee comes over he's just looking daggers at me and he goes over to the timekeeper's bench and says give me the stick gauge and the timekeeper goes we don't get a stick agent here and and so the referee's like so you see if you still go off the ice and go to the referee's room and come back with the stick so he he measures the stick

it's illegal so into the penalty box they go our power play sock but late in the by the way there was like five six minutes left in the game we're down three so late in the the power play we score one and so that's great so now we're the parents and the other team, by the way, I'm on TV. People know who I am and they're just giving it to me. And, and understandably so. So we're there. And I say to Stu, I go, they still got illegal sticks going on over there. I said, let's, let's call another one. And he goes, really? And I go, yeah. I said, let's do it. And, and so, so we call another one. And the referee is like looking at me just he

measures it up and sure enough sure enough into the box there you go so now i'm looking over at the berry bench the berry parents are screaming and yelling and cursing me out like you wouldn't believe but it's chaos on the berry bench the kids on the bench and the parents are now yelling at their kid do you have an illegal stick and the coach is talking to their players and their their pitching sticks up into the stands and and that and i'm on the bench and i go come on boys look at them over there they're on the run now we're down one you know whatever so we we like five seconds into the next five seconds into that power play we score so now we're down one and and and it's chaos and so we're there and there's only there's less than two minutes left in the game and so i say to stew stew you're not

going to believe this but i think they've got another illegal stick out there the one kid with an illegal stick i said you want to go for the hat trick? And he goes, no, I think we're good now. And so, anyways, we pulled the goalie. And I'm not sure how we had a defenseman out who hadn't scored a goal all year on the ice at the time. Nevertheless, we did. And with like seven seconds, with seven seconds left, the puck goes back to him. We got the goalie pulled. And he takes a slap shot. We've got the goalie pulled and he takes a slap shot. He's 10 years old, tries to take a slap shot.

And of course it's a slicer and he just chunks it and the puck goes up and it's bouncing and it crazily bounces, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it literally bounces in front of the goalie and goes right over his shoulder under the bar with about five seconds left. We tie the game. We tie the game we tie the game and

so now we come over and the the berry team's over there the parents are yelling at me the coach is trying to get his bench under control and our guys come over and me and stew we're fired up now and the kids are fired up and and uh so they they go uh which stew just says to them, boys, we got them on the run here. Just go for it. No defense. Don't even – let's end this thing, like, immediately. If we lose, so what? We're playing with house money.

Just go for it, boys. All up, ball to the wall. Go get the goal. And I think, like, 20 or 30 seconds in, we scored the winner in overtime. Unbelievable. So the kids go nuts everybody celebrates they go back to the room and me and stew and my buddy kevin o'brien we were shaking hands and i could see everybody's you know all upset and barry goes to the often so i go i go

wheeling back towards the dressing room and i said to the other coaches I said I better go over and take my medicine so I I go I'm gonna go over there so I go over and the other parents are there and right away they launch in they're yelling at me they're swearing at me and I said uh I said oh I said how long have you been a parent on this team and they go um what do you mean I said how many years has your kid been on this team now this is his first year, the guy that was yelling the most at me. I said, okay. I said, is there anybody here that's – any parent that's been here on the team for three years? And there was a guy over there, and I could see the guy looking at me, and he's smiling. And I said, do you want to tell him, or should I tell him?

And the guy goes, I'll tell him. I said, okay and and the guy goes i'll tell him i said okay good appreciate it thanks and i turn around and i walk away and what that parent from three years ago told the other dad was the head coach of the berry team that we were playing against in that game in minor novice our coach got suspended for deciding minor novice, believe it or not. He got suspended for, I think he yelled at a referee in the third period. So in game four of a best of five, he got suspended. So in game five, he was there. Kids are eight years, seven, eight years old. He tied his kids skates up before the game. The coach's son was on the team.

He left the room, said, good luck, boys. And the assistant coaches took over. Somebody saw him in the room tying his kids skates so our team beat their team in game five in that same Dunlop arena back then and and we're getting ready to start the next series second round of the playoffs in minor novice triple a and we get a call from the OMHA to tell us that we've been disqualified because Barry protested the game because the, the head coach, the suspended head coach of the Whitby wildcats had gone in the dressing room before the game. And that's not allowed. So, so, so what the,

I'm not calling stick measurements unless payback is a bitch. I think, I think that this podcast has taught that you're not a man that you want to cross. Seriously. I'll say that. Did I ask any questions you want taken out? I don't want to be on the hit list. Was that before or after the McSorley stuff in 93? Oh, it would have been after McSorley and the illegal stick stuff.

Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. It was definitely after McSorley in the illegal stick stuff. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, it was definitely after McSorley and the King's Montreal Cup final. Wow, that's a fantastic story. Like you say, payback's a bitch, no doubt about that. I have one, I feel obligated to ask you.

You share a name of one of the greatest fictional Canadians in pop culture history. Of course, I speak of one half of the great McKenzie brothers of Strange Brew fame. How much did you play that up 35, 40 years ago? When it was a popular thing? Yeah, a little bit, but it was more of a pain in the ass initially, because as you might expect everybody take off.

Well, my nickname, there's a lot of guys on the, in hockey media. Like when I was on the beat back in the eighties and nineties, that was my nickname. There's a lot of guys to this day. Call me hose. That's one of my many, many, many nicknames. But so yeah, I used to get that. I used to get that a lot or whatever. And after a while it probably got a little tiring. And so, you know, there's only so many times, but it's, it's funny now, like somebody, even now somebody will say, Oh, I bet you get,

I bet you get a lot of jokes about your name being Bob McKenzie. Take off. Hey. And I'm like, yeah, not for 20 years, buddy. Can I, can I admit, I don't know what you guys are talking about right now. Oh, it was an SCTV thing. It was Rick Moranis and Dave Thomas. Oh, I know those Canadians. I know those. A bunch in a beer bottle take off the great white north and they which was hilarious and it was really funny because I was coming I was

coming back from LA I was coming back from from LA to Toronto and I was at LAX and I was in the Air Canada lounge and I ran into Dave Thomas and and and I introduced myself to him and I said hey thanks for nothing and he goes what do you mean and I said my name is Bob McKenzie and he goes well don't blame me that was Rick Moran it's not me and we laughed about that that's awesome I gotta ask you about your music taste now we're gonna go two different places let's start off with Pitbull Mr. Worldwide another one of your your self-given nicknames wit this guy at the cottage when he's chucking weights around this little weight room in his garage loves to bump it to mr worldwide uh i i think i think i did it more than i will say this that the pitbull, there's one particular Pitbull album in particular,

it's an entirely Spanish. It's there's no English. It's called Dale. And there's a, there's a really catchy tune on it that I liked. And when I was, I got a concept to rower. So when I'm on the rower, I, that, that tune really fires me up. So I would play that like really loud in the garage. Now Mike and Sean would be at the cottage and they would like, it would be like that moment that I fell in love with you on Twitter. When you said you tweeted out,

I'm looking at my dad right now and he has his shirt tucked into his underwear. I need a new dad. Okay. So Mike and Sean needed a new dad when they see me out there on the rower with the pitbull going so that's really the i probably play it up bigger than it is it's eel pensis the via or something like that but it's like this it's all spanish and it's on the um it's on the you're like the meet the fucker dad you're gonna be like mom buying you're half retired yeah it's a really cool song and uh i'll i'll get the official name for it okay uh tragically hip was another band i wanted to talk about oh my god i've seen some of your

instagram stories and you got that bump in the garage as well i know you were also uh you were pretty close to gourd downey were you not yeah i got to know gourd and the guys in the band a little bit um back in between the up to here which is their second album first full album their very first release was considered an ep but it was an album uh it was called the tragically hip um but then it really launched them to national stardom in canada was the up to here album and then came road apples so it was between up to here and the release of road apples and they were playing um the concert hall at young in davenport in toronto right across from the canadian tire it's also known as the masonic temple and um the Canadian Tire. It's also known as the Masonic Temple.

And I love the hip. I love their music. The first two songs, the two big hits off their EP release were Small Town Bring Down and Last American Exit. And I really like both those songs. And then when Up to Here came out, I got that and that's Blow It High Doe and 38 Years Old and New orleans is sinking and all the great songs on there and so i talked to a guy in front of it well andy frost morgan frost that um i i talked to him and he he knew a guy who knew a guy who was part of the hips management or whatever and so i was able to go and and get a pass to go and see um the hip play the masonic temple the concert hall at young in davenport it was a hot hot hot

night in august and it was it was like 95 degrees and the humidity was like up around 100 it was just a steaming hot night and it was one of the one of those special moments and it was a fantastic night um and and the guys in the hips management said you know gordon some of the guys know you from your work um on tv and the newspaper the hockey news or whatever they're huge hockey fans and they had hockey pools and stuff so they said come back after we'll leave backstage passes so i got to meet gordon that night and we created a little bit of a friendship over the years and you know more than anything else all the tragically hit music just it it just speaks to me like nothing that I've ever listened to and so that's

my jam that's my band and and my my great pride in life is that I took Mike and Sean to hip concerts very early. And they'd probably be into more hip concerts than me because I could never go to the hip concerts because I was always working. And especially on July 1st, they always played a Canada Day show and I was always working. But Mike and Sean have gotten into it and they got hip in their blood now. And so I feel like I've done my job as a good dad. Did you get a chance to go to the show in Kingston? I didn't go to the final show.

I went to the last of the three Toronto shows the week or two before they played in Kingston. I was celebrating, I think it was my 60th birthday on August 16th that year. And that Saturday of the final show in Kingston was a night that myself and my wife Cindy, Mike and Sean and their better halves, we went out for my birthday dinner at Jacob's Steakhouse in Toronto. And we taped the hip stuff. And we came back to Sean's condo, actually, and watched part of the show.

But then I've still got it on PVR on my here, and I've watched that show over and over again because there's nothing like it for me already in the head yeah that seemed kind of like a national thing like seemed like the entirety of canada was was watching those shows till at the end there's pretty pretty emotional stuff bob i just got one last one for you i know the game's probably in the best position it's ever been in um other than labor issues what are the biggest issues the nhl might face in the next five to 10 years? It's a good one. I haven't thought about that one.

So the labor issues are always interesting. And I mean, the CBA is done for a good long time now, or at least we think it is. You know, I guess the biggest one, I suppose is going to continue to go down the road that we talked about with diversity and making sure that the hockey culture and that the NHL reflects the changing face of the game and the changing face of society in Canada, the United States and the world over. and I haven't even, I know nothing about this. I just saw anecdotally on Twitter yesterday about that story in the Swedish second league or whatever about Bjork Loven and the question about, did they throw a game and stuff like that? So we haven't had the opportunity yet in the National Hockey League to have the full-up partnership between the NHL and legalized gambling.

So I suspect over time that's going to be something that is going to need to be navigated around on a lot of different levels and I really don't know much about all that stuff because I knew that it was coming in at the tail end of the time when I was getting ready to depart the scene on a day-to-day basis so I don't need to know a lot about that but I suspect that's an issue that will be an important issue in terms of how it's handled by everybody in terms of the information would be at injuries and trades and all this kind of stuff there's there's got to be a lot of layers to that whole thing of of syncing up the hockey industry with the gambling industry and and obviously and hopefully for the financial

betterment because i mean this this pandemic we're going to be the economics of this is going to impact the game for so long i just i feel bad for the players i feel bad for the owners because there's there's no you can cap estro all you want but at the end of the day the numbers are the numbers and it's just a matter of when everybody's going to pay back the money that's owed well we really appreciate you coming on and that's uh that is all right you said it best that's campfire stories just some old classics and you've been around for so long so congrats on all your success i know it's semi-retirement i don't know when that the official no more bob Bob McKenzie breaking news will happen, but what a run you've had.

Well, I appreciate it, guys. And the song here, I'm looking at it now. Mr. 305. Hold on. It's P-I-E-N-S-A-S. And then it's Dila Verdad. And then it's featuring somebody called Genta Dizona.

You get a couple margaritas in you, Bobby? You get the hip shaking? Shakira, Shakira! The hips don't lie. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Ten and two, baby. Bob, this was awesome. Thanks. I know we didn't even get a chance to dive into the kids, but we'll have you on again.

You can tell us more stories about you fucking around with Adam Minor kids calling illegal stick penalties late in games. In consolation, Biz. In consolation games. But payback as well. Listen, it wasn't me that started it three years earlier. You don't stop things, Bob. You finish them.

Hey, Ruff and Rowdy, you and Phil Esposito. I can get you some of that post i'll get you a new kitchen yeah i'm sure you could you'll have a new boat by the end of it the uh the glove ad by the way was well done you like that the watson gloves you know how much weed i smoke before that sales call bob you wait to wait till you see the mcdonald's one coming out although it'll already be out by the time this comes out listen as much as you should sell your gloves or whatever sell my books for me please Everyday Hockey Heroes volume two buy it before Christmas it's a great book it's it's probably not as fun and frivolous as Beauties by James Duthie and buy his book too

there's a chapter on me in there where I scored on Tretjak but that's another story for another pod. Round two on Chicklets. Let's do a Chicklets at his lake house. Bob, thanks for the invite. Get the fans of Biz20 promo code. They'll love you forever, I'll tell you that. Awesome. Thanks for having me on, guys. Take care. All the best.

Big thanks once again to Bobby Mack for jumping on with us. Had a great time. I'm sure we'll be talking to him again, the semi-retired Bobby Mac, although I'm sure he'll be busting out scoops before we know it. Okay, you've probably heard us talk about Revitalite a lot on the show. You know the drill. It's the adult version of a certain drink you find in the baby aisle. Well, the guys at Revitalite are taking things to the next level

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Grab some. I got a bunch in my fridge. Can't recommend it enough. So pick up your Revitalite Black Label today in-store or online at the Barstool store and tweet at us or tag at DrinkRevitalite in your morning after stories. Get that stuff. Get a, revitalate in your morning after stories, get that stuff, get a little pep in your step. Speaking of pep in your step,

this next guest certainly has pep in his step. Chris Knuckles Nyland, absolute legend from Boston, Boston legend who went up to Montreal and beat up the Bruins for a few years before coming here for a few years. A pleasure to talk to him, another guy with some great stories. So I'm going to send it over to Knuckles Nyland right now. Well, it's been a long time coming, getting this character on the show. A Boston native, this right wing was taken by Montreal in the 19th round of the 1978 draft.

He played 13 NHL seasons for the Canadians, Rangers, and Bruins, and was one of the most prolific fighters of his era. He still holds the record for most penalties in a game with 10, and his 3,043 penalty minutes is good for ninth all-time, and he has the most by a U.S.-born player. He was also selected to play in the 1991 All-Star Game, and, of course, he won the Stanley Cup with the 1986 Montreal Canadiens. It's our pleasure to finally welcome to the Spitting Chicklets

podcast, Chris Nyland. How the hell are you, Nux? I'm good. Thanks for having me. Like I said, it's about fucking time. I shined up that resume pretty good for you, at least, anyways. Yeah, you did. Did you include the Canada Cup? You Google my name or something?

Yeah, they taught me how to Google, yeah. First off, man, we want to get your take right away. Last week, the Tom Wilson shit was all the talk of the NHL, the way the Rangers reacted to it. I know you do a radio show up in Montreal, but not everybody that listens to us listens to that. What was your take on everything that went down?

You know, listen, it happens all the time in the NHL scrums. Honestly, I don't think what happened to Bucinavich was that bad. He punched him in the back of the shoulder and kind of gave him a little mush. And I can't believe he got $5,000 fine for that. I thought my whole thing was, listen, Wilson's a tough kid. I get it. But when he saw his Panarin, he should have kind of chilled a little bit. I think he took it too far. Can you imagine if that kid split his head open and really got hurt bad? That's what I worried about when I saw it.

Listen, I like Wilson as a. Go ahead. Not to interrupt you, but let me ask you. Go ahead. Because I thought that and it was so scary. I said, thank God he didn't hit his head. But when you say Wilson should have let up and you had your moments of anger and rage, is it that easy when you see a guy?

Was it for you that easy? If you saw a guy, you know, you could just pound that you'd you'd be able to stop it that easy when you see a guy was it for you that easy if you saw a guy you know you could just pound that you'd you'd be able to stop it that quick even if he jumped on your back listen i never had an incident where i did something like that to a one of the better players if you will i did have one incident with middleton where i was what are you laughing at i was also laughing because i'm sure there was no skill guys jumping on your fucking back knuckles there was one guy they weren't jumping on it was you but i ended up hitting middleton and i hit him with the back of my glove they said i butt ended him okay and i didn and i hit him with the back of my glove they said i butt ended him

okay and i didn't i hit him with the back of my glove and i got him right in the mouth and he knocked a couple of i knocked his plate through his lip and cut him and and believe me it's the one thing that i regret my career the one. Not to mention that every other fucking idiot the Bruins had in the minor leagues got called up after that, and I had to fight every one of them. So I brought all that shit on myself. But, yeah, honestly, I think he could have – well, maybe not Tom Wilson, but I think he could have let up on –

you know, he could have grabbed him around the head and just hugged him. You know, I didn't think he had to do what he did and what listen i like wilson as a player like i said but the one thing i don't like about him is when he was in vegas and reeves wanted to fight him and he didn't yeah i ain't fighting you like he's gonna sit in the he's gonna waste the time sitting in the box for five minutes if he fights Reeves. That pissed me off. If you're going to be a tough guy and the guy's calling you on, you've got to fight him. You can't say, oh, I'm not going to fight you because I'm a good player now. Didn't like it.

Can't have it both ways is what you're saying, eh, Knuckles? Yeah. If you're going to play that role, you should have to answer the bell to the highest of extremes. And I think Reeves is probably, I would say it's fair to call him the top dog right now i can't think and who else would be the equivalent right now if uh if you could think of anyone else big z could maroon fight him maybe i yeah i don't know i don't know if uh i'm sure maroon would but he's not dying i'm not saying they beat him, but those are some guys. Knox, can you remember anything like this where there's been such a ripple effect?

Of course, the Wilson incident happens. Then the Rangers, so I should say the Rangers owner comes out with that ludicrous statement, which his GM and president obviously didn't like. He ends up firing them to bring in another guy. And then Boots Nevis gets suspended. It's just this whole kind of like all this shit rolled downhill of you. GM and president obviously didn't like, he ends up firing them to bring in another guy and then the boots never gets suspended. It's just this whole, like, kind of like all this shit rolled down. Do you remember anything like this before to this extent where, where GM's life got fired?

No, not nothing like that. And again, I can certainly see how JD didn't like that statement and, and probably voiced that, and that's why he lost his job. And I kind of like a guy who stays true to himself and to his team. That owner's a little bit of a whack job anyway. Aren't we all, Knuckles? Putting it nicely.

Knuckles, imagine if we had a billion bucks in the bank, the silly shit that we'd be doing. Yeah, I don't know if I'd be here right now. Oh, man. Hey, but Knuckles, obviously we wanted to get your opinion on that. But the main reason we had you come by is we want to talk about your incredible career. And, you know, I obviously did a bit of studying. And going all the way back, I didn't realize when you grew up, your father was a Green Beret, correct?

Yeah, my dad was a green beret correct yeah my dad was a green beret and um christ i think he stayed until like he was 50 years old he um he stayed in the reserves um for quite a while the end but yeah my dad uh jungle expert jumped out of planes uh he had a couple good charleston friends uh the f Fitzgerald brothers that he used to run with a little bit my dad's a tough bastard no doubt you're also a city kid

like myself, grew up in West Roxbury, right Chris? yeah you went to Catholic Memorial, did you do all four years there in high school? yeah, I got through all four years what priest dragged you through there? that sounds years. I didn't get through all four years. What priest dragged you through there? That sounds bad, but I didn't mean it that way.

No, yeah, I went to CM. I did my four years there. I went to one year of prep school up in Northwood School in Lake Placid. Then I went to Northeastern. I was just going to say an amazing stat. I'm pretty sure your last year of college, you averaged three and a half penalty minutes per game. Biz, there's no fighting in college.

I don't know how you met. Was that just like ruffings after whistle stuff? You got to give me the breakdown of that season. There were a lot of elbows, a lot of ruffing. I ended up in a fight up in Colgate where I ended up cracking someone, a kid named Larry Gibson. And I hit him with my glove on and we had a riot up at Colgate. They end up canceling the game.

We almost didn't get out of town at Colgate and Mike Milbury's alma mater. But yeah, a lot of minor penalties, but there was one fighting. Knuckles, going back, I thought it was even crazier the two years before that. I think you played 20 games each year. You didn't register one penalty minute. So what, were you in a role where you had to remain disciplined and if you took a stupid penalty you get benched where'd you see that i saw that on hockey db and i thought that was crazy that you didn't have one penalty minute your first two

years of college now you better talk to hockey why because uh my first two years i ended up getting hurt my first year i broke my hand in a fight off the ice and then my second year i got in a fight with a couple guys i almost got my finger bit off i end up in the hospital i almost got my finger amputated knuckles that's another off-ice incident correct yeah another one that's sophomore Biz. I'm actually surprised. Given the fact that your father was a Green Beret, I would assume there was a certain amount of discipline in the household. Did you end up getting in bar fights? Was that just kind of like a regular occurrence?

Well, on the street, you know, yeah. Different stuff in the street, you know, kids, neighborhood stuff. But, yeah, my father certainly was a disciplined guy but come on biz i bucked the system fair enough fair enough my friend that's unbelievable next now you went to northeast and was anybody else offering you or was that your only one or what how'd you end up so my only one really is the deal. Judge King, Paul King, his brother used to be the governor of the state, Ed King. And the judge was my hockey coach. Judge King helped me get into Northwood school up in Lake Placid.

And I went, he asked me to do one, a couple of things. He said, go up there and do good in school, stay out of trouble and you know, play hockey. Boom. I did it. I can give you one of them. Yeah. My one. And I did well in school and I did well in hockey. And anyway, he had Fernie Flammon come and see me. He was friends with Fernie. And Fernie ended up giving me a scholarship because of the judge.

And then when I was at Northeastern, the judge, Judge King, did the same thing. He went to Montreal. He was good friends with Dickie Moore and Doug Harvey, uh Hall of Famous with the Canadians and Doug was a scout with the Canadians and the judge asked Doug if he could get the Canadians just to draft me and that's why I got drafted in the 19th round because I would have never got drafted it was left up to the scouts it was a favor to judge king unbelievable imagine that is fucking crazy i want to ask you about and that's different when like some people are happy they don't get drafted because any they can choose their team i mean you're a guy who you were going to need to get a shot maybe through the draft so that's pretty cool yeah it was like honest to god like

and i didn't know right away i didn't find right away. I didn't find out until, well, I didn't find out until after my career that the judge was responsible for that. Doug Harvey and Dickie Moore. Well, actually, Dickie told me at the judge's funeral. I met him. He came down from Montreal to it. And after we went out and had a bite to eat, and he told me the whole story,

how the judge came to him and Doug and asked if the Canadians would do me a favor, but he never wanted me to know. He wanted to think that, you know, he wanted to make me think that, Oh, they will, they come and found me, you know, in the 19th round. All right. It was like the college admission scandal, just his way to get into the show. Hey, so what was, what was your initial reaction i mean growing up a bruins fan you idolize bobby or all of a sudden you're getting drafted by the most hated team based on your your the franchise you adored growing up yeah um listen i was so happy to get drafted. I actually was at the casket flag and over at Northeastern with Mike Sanford.

And we're in that we're in there drinking and somebody come up and say, hey, you got drafted. I said, no way. You know, I just I couldn't believe it. He said, no, you did. You got dropped by the Canadian. So we ran back in. We watched them turn the station on the other TV. And sure enough, I got drafted. I couldn't believe it. Canadians, 17th round. I was happier than a pig in shit.

And it's funny. I always wanted to be a Boston Bruin. And growing up, that was my thing. And getting drafted by them and going to training camp that year was like, you know, it was difficult. One, I was a little bit in awe. I hated LeFleur and I hated Savard and LaPointe because, I mean, every year they beat the Bs. And next thing, I'm out there on the ice in training camp with them. And it went okay.

I didn't fight. I ran around. I played physical and stuff like that. But, you know, I got sent to Nova Scotia that first year. But the funny story, we were at the Boston Garden. I was at a friend of mine, Franny Flaherty, a kid from South Boston. And we went over, and the Habs were playing the Bees in the playoffs in 79, 78, 79. So we went over, watched the practice, and we come out.

We jump in Franny's Thunderbird, and we pull around the front of the Boston Garden. There's Le Fleur, Lupien, and Le Maire. So Franny says, why don't we ask them, you know, we'll give them a ride to the hotel. So I'm like, yeah, whatever. So Franny pulls up in the Thunderbird, rolls the window down, right? They all got Stanley Cup rings on. Franny goes, hey, you want to ride the hotel? They're like looking at us going, should we get in?

So they were loopy, right? So they hop in. They get in the back. And LeFleur, he lights up a butt right away. He's nervous in the back. And so I'm going, I go, yeah, we're going to go to the game tonight, blah, blah, blah. I said, next year, I'm going to come out there. I'm going to play with you guys. I'm going to be go, yeah, we're going to go to the game tonight, blah, blah, blah. I said, next year, I'm going to come out there.

I'm going to play with you guys. I'm going to be at training camp next year. So LeMaire goes, he looks at me, he goes, oh, yeah? He said, how are you going to do that? And I said, well, I got drafted by you guys. I was all excited to tell him I was drafted, right? So LeMaire goes, really? Where do you play?

I said, I play at Northeastern right here in Boston. He says, what run were you drafted? I said, the 19th. The three of them started laughing their balls off. And I'm like, what are they laughing at? I got fucking drafted. They're like, we didn't know they were laughing. Fun in Nova Scotia.

Oh, it was hilarious and it's funny i came to camp next year and i'm in the locker room and that was back in the day you play all you do is scrimmage right and i'm on the same team as a flare and he's looking at me and he's looking at me and i'm doing my skates up and he's looking over and he looked in he goes tab on that he said that you the kid from boston i said i told you i was gonna fucking be here i told you then i get out in the ice and who do i line up against loopy now with a face off in the offensive zone and Lupe's looking at me, right? And he's like 6'5", huge.

And he's staring at me. I'm going, oh, I'm going to have to fucking fight him. And before the puck drops, he looks at me and goes, Tabarnak, it's you, the kid from Boston. I said, I told you I was fucking going to be here. And then the end of the season, he, LeMah was away. He went to Switzerland that year. He retired, but he went to Switzerland. And the end of the year, we used to go for lunch every day across the street.

And it was like March. Their season was over, and he'd come back, and and we're sitting there and he's talking to Larry Robinson and I'm having lunch and LeMire says to Larry he says hey who's the kid in Ireland the new kid that's doing all the fighting and Larry says yeah he's right here you want to meet him

yeah so Jock Chris Island hey Jock how are you how's it going he goes tabanak it's you the kid from boston i said i told you i was gonna be here the three of them it was hilarious because they all recognized me from that one day in the car and it was just funny they all said the same thing tabanak it's you the kid from boston you made that you made that impression on him so um you mentioned that you didn't fight in that first training camp is that the case yeah i didn't so you ended up getting sent down to nova

scotia and in the book you uh you released uh one of the people said that when you were in nova scotia there was no more takers in the american league after you'd spent your little time there i think you played like a little over half a season. And what, had you ran through the entire tough guy, all the tough guys in the league? Yeah, listen, it's funny. I had a five-game tryout. I didn't have an agent. And my first game I played in Maine was Philly's farm team.

And I ended up fighting Glenn Cochran that game. We both got kicked out after the fight, but I cut them open. I cut them pretty good. And the next day I'm in, at the hotel and the Bert Templeton calls me. He says, Hey, Chris, you have an agent. I'm there. No no I don't have an agent why he said well the Canadians called me this morning they want to sign you a contract you don't have an agent I said I don't I don't have an agent he said well they want to sign your contract that one fight they signed me and I signed um that next week and then in 49 games i mean i fought every night it was crazy like

it was nuts like every night so so was that your first experience on ice like getting in a scrap of that magnitude and then all of a sudden you kind of had that one fight at Colgate. That was it. And, yeah, it was really the first time I ever fought was – Did you play in that? How hard could it be? I could fight in the street and put a pair of skates on. If you can stand up, you should be able to go. In the 73 in Faneuil Hall too. Yeah.

So that's wild. So obviously a big reason as to why, like, you didn't even spend much time in the minors you end up getting called up and and the rest is history so basically that that that that one scrap kind of turned your fortunes around like uh like pretty crazy well I gave me the the contract which you know when you in the scheme of things uh at the time it was a big deal for me um but in the 49 games like i i had 304 minutes of penalty but i had 15 goals and 10 assists and it's weird like i didn't realize that but they had montreal had a scout down there watching me almost every game

and i didn't know that they had somebody there watching me every game. And I always could play the game, you know, decent. I wasn't those obviously no superstar, but I could play. I would have had a hard time doing that job. If I didn't play, I couldn't have a sat in the bench and, you know, got the tap. I couldn't have sat on the bench and, you know, got the tap. I couldn't have done it. Chris, your first 15 games with the 79-80 Canadians.

Now, that's a team, they're looking for their fifth straight cup, seven Hockey Hall of Famers on it. There's no way you went in there and kept your mouth shut around all these guys. Like, what was it like getting in there for you? When I first went in, you know, I wasn shy but you know I just I knew my place you know you didn't come in and start popping off right away you know you gotta make your way and that's what I did once I started making my way and I got some respect of my teammates um I was a little more vocal in the room but you know

who were your running partners what you're like your rookie year who did you run around with i know chelios didn't come to a couple years later but i mean it's montreal it's the early 80s now the country while the continent's still partying at a pretty good clip who you're running around with up there uh i ran with doug wickenheiser when he first come in where came 81 rick chart, draw when I first came, but shot, he left soon after he wasn't there too long. I played one,

almost two years with me. And then I, I ran with Doug Wickenheiser for a little bit. I was just going to ask like about Larry Robinson, because I remember my father talking about him as like the most complete defense when he was nasty offensively, he was great. But then you hear all these stories as a guy,

what he's done for players when he's gone on to coach and as a teammate, did you have experiences of hanging out with him or was he more a quiet guy? No, Larry, you know, again, he was one of the boys when we went in the road, but he was a little older at the time. You know, I come come in i was 21 or whatever 20 and uh he um you know well he must have been 27 at the time and to me that was old at the right i'm thinking 27 but he'd been around a while and but larry was you know he was like everybody's big brother everybody's father uh supported everybody he was like everybody's big brother, everybody's father, supported everybody. He was a great leader.

Awesome on the ice. And yeah, he was, he was cool. Your father's right on with that. I remember Larry came in the league and I was still a Bruins fan. I remember they called them up and he came, he played, I was at a game at the garden. He came, he scored two goals. I came, he took it end to end. I'm there. Who the hell is this guy? and he came he played i was at a game at the garden he came he scored two goals that game he took it end to end i'm there who the hell is this guy they have who's this guy they're getting now they get all the best players and ended up playing with him uh him and gainey

um two of the probably the best leaders i ever played with and then larry going on to coach guys absolutely loved Larry. He was so disarming. He, he was, he was always there to help a teammate and he has great knowledge of the game, especially being a defenseman. He's, he was so good working with the younger players. He helped Chelly in a big way uh when he first came in the league for sure um you got to see a few younger guys come up I think RA already mentioned that but uh I want to ask about Claude Lemieux and specifically

I think it was May 14th 1987 you guys are in the conference finals in game six were you aware that he was shooting the puck in the net at the end of warm-up into the opposition net? And did you know that it was going to result into what it did? No. And listen, I knew something was up, but I didn't pay attention to it. Him and Shane were doing this thing where they shoot the puck in the net. You know, they're like that's

gonna fucking help us win the game way to go guys and then like uh I was aware because it was in the newspaper and people had started talking about it but I I didn't pay attention to it I went back in the room uh when that happened and I was just starting on doing my skates and i'm sitting there and someone come running in the room one of the ushers and said ah there's a fight on the ice and i'm like what so um i tightened my skates real quick and i went out and um go figure, I end up with who else? Fucking Brownie with no shirt on, you know? And it's funny. I've talked to him since and I said, God, I wish I thought of that, coming out with no shirt on.

He said, I didn't think of it. He said, I take my shirt off every period. He said, I just happen to have it off. I didn't bother putting it on. He said, I didn't think of it. I just ran out there. I guess I was getting too much credit for being smart, but he, you know, Claude and Shane, when they were out there, that big Sam Wilson come out and he was like six, I don't know, six, seven.

He was like huge. But, you know, I didn't want to fight him. He was there at the time and I was almost going to sucker him and just start it and say, screw this. But I didn't. I wait a little bit and then everybody started coming out of the locker rooms and it was like, forget, forget about it then. And then once Brownie come on, I'm now how am i gonna handle this one you know nothing i'd grab on to for leverage um and you know he's he's a tough guy but i i picked my way through it i got my way through that fight you know all fucking 25 minutes of it whatever it was ridiculous yeah it's on youtube for those of you who haven't seen it so long story short claude lemieux goes off the ice because at that point the flyers had said if

he shoots the puck in there we're going to grab him so the so claude lemieux leaves the ice the flyers kind of wait to see if he's going to come back they finally leave while claude lemieux comes running out as they're going down the tunnel and they they peek back around the corner so they come flying out claude lemieux slides it in the empty net and next thing you know the fucking everyone's outside the locker room on the ice scrapping for for 10-15 minutes so it was uh it's a pretty wild scene that's for sure yeah it was nuts you know and we had just had that big fight with the nordiques too right that um good friday thing and that was freaking crazy and then this one i guess was a they said the fight the brawl to end all brawls so kind of happy because you know

that was crazy shit being in a brawl i don't mind fighting a guy but you just never know in a brawl what's going to happen you trip on something and next thing you got some screwball smashing your head on the ice or something i i didn't like the brawls but this was an era too chris where they really they didn't suspend guys for that did anybody get suspended from that or was it just a bunch of fines no a bunch to find uh no suspension leaving the locker room shirt on. Nobody gets suspended. That's hilarious to think of in today's context. Yeah. Uh, we got to talk about obviously the Stanley cup, uh, that year, uh, Hartford took you guys to seven, but otherwise you guys steamrolled every team you played. I mean, I looked at Patrick was regular season numbers that year.

They weren't anything great. Three, three, five goals against eight, seven, five safe percentage, which is below average for that year. What was the team's confidence level in him going into the playoffs? Did you think he was going to pull this off? We had a lot of confidence in him. Really? We had a lot of confidence in him. Listen, we were struggling as a team.

I think the last 10 games, we lost 11 games. We lost seven of them. We did not have a good record going into the playoffs. John Perron was the coach puddinghead that was his nickname puddinghead and um this is where i talked about larry and and bob gainey those two um really kept our team together like you couldn't believe that Jean Perron was coaching a fucking NHL team. It like, it was ridiculous. I've had my issues with coaches over the years here and there,

but I could not fucking believe this guy actually was our coach. And every time he came in the room and he'd go up on the board, he'd say, okay, like fucking 30 times in a minute. Everything was okay. Fucking nothing was okay. And guys would look at each other like, eh. And Bob Ganey, that's why I say Bob Ganey and Larry really kept our team together.

We had a system in place that we played to a tee as a group. And that year, beat Boston three straight. We had a difficult time with Hoffman. They had an unbelievable team, right? Some great players, Francis, Deneen, you know, Samuelson on defense, Luton and that. They had a really good heart. I mean, Babich.

And we went to that game seven. And I remember they scored with a minute left in the game. And they tied it. And I was like, oh, man. I just didn't have a good feeling. And then we come out for that overtime period. And we come out for that overtime period, and that's when Claude Lemieux took over and scored that big goal like Pepe.

That year in the playoffs, the two of them. But to get back to Patrick, I'm sorry. We had confidence in Patrick big time, and then it just grew in the playoffs. Once we got by half, and then we went to New York, it's unbelievable. He stood in just grew in the playoffs. Once we got by half, and then we went to New York, it's unbelievable. He stood in his head in New York. One night he made like 62 saves or something in double overtime,

and we ended up winning on an overtime goal by Lemieux. But Pepe Lemieux played big for us that year. They came 1-2 on the cons mike um patrick and um then claude second but uh they were both big part of that team back in that day uh we're talking old time hockey in these stories were you guys you know after a home playoff win or road were you going out that night for for drinks and dinner or was it playoffs You'd at least shut it down a little bit. Like what was the scene in terms of after the games and then that entire cup run mid eighties? Well, we stayed when we're at home,

we went to the hotel. So we practice that day. We had a game. We skate in the morning. We play that night and then go home. The next day, we'd get up, go to practice, and after practice, we'd go have a team meal, and then we'd stay at a hotel with the team. Yeah, we didn't – we were at a place called – we called it Alcatraz. It was the island of St. Helen yeah we were staying at this

hotel in the middle of nowhere and um well it wasn't that yeah the following year we had a couple guys sneak out and they uh they were in a car with a couple of um girls they got in a car accident and i wasn't one of them but um i was tempted to go out and i'm glad i didn't that night um you know they put us in a place where they they kind of they made you want to get out of there but for the most part um guys followed the rules uh that year we had one situation where guys didn't and it was all over the newspaper the next day i want to talk about your goal scoring chris i know you mentioned you know you had some games here but you've got 16 goals 21 goals 19 goals in three consecutive years who are you playing with who was your sentiment during those years where you were putting up such good numbers carvano i played with carvano and gaining those

three years yeah yeah and uh two hall of famers you know yeah carvo was a good offensive player in junior he had 150 points or something um his last year and when he came to Montreal and LeMire got a hold of him um he because we had a couple offensive guys guys that were putting the puck in that Bobby Smith um and um and LeMire got a hold of him and said listen you got to play both ends of the rink and uh he worked with him and uh carbo embraced that role and certainly went on had unbelievable career but playing with him uh it was a lot of fun uh he's a good player good playmaker um i always told him he had a cop lounge he could do anything he wanted in the ice you want to you know spit at people you want spare someone. You want to suck at someone, just do it. I'll be there for you.

But honestly, he never really took advantage of me that way, which was good. Yeah, when I think of that era of that Canadiens, the first name that comes to me is Guy Lafleur. I mean, I know you had obviously Robinson. You had, well, Kenny Dryden before you got there. But was Lafleur the best player on that team, regardless of position, when you were there?

Yeah, when I first got there, for sure. Yeah, no question about it. When I came that first year, LeMaire retired, Dryden retired, and Cornwall retired. That was their last year. And even if they were there, I'd have a hard time saying he wasn't the best player. But, you know, he just come off of them

four Stanley Cups in a row. He had an incredible run and he was starting to starting to get up there, you know, as far as age. And that whole team was starting to break apart. Was he ripping darts

at the intermissions? Yeah, he was ripping darts and I was ripping to break apart. Was he ripping darts at the intermissions? Yeah, he was ripping darts, and I was ripping them with him. Get the lungs fired up. It's bad. I didn't realize that. I'm in the NHL. Next thing, people are there smoking butts between periods. I'm like, it's crazy. We would go back in the trainer's room, Eddie Palchak, and my first year I'm there, and all of a sudden I smell smoke

in the locker room. I'm like, what's that? And Flowers in the back room having a butt. And I ended up going – I'd sit in with him between periods and have a – I have a smoke and a Coke. He have a smoke and a Coke, and away we go. So, if he was having a good game would he ever like treat himself on the bench maybe like off to the side just grab one like maybe you know

faking to tie the skates up hey never no funny though i used to go i would be there like four o'clock for an eight o'clock game he'd be be there at three o'clock and eat two hot dogs, potato chips, have a coffee, smoke a couple of butts. Every game. Just go out there and do his thing. You talked earlier about Jean Perron. Now, R.A. mentioned one of those successful years you had as far as goal scoring.

You had 19. He was the head coach that year. From what I'm understanding is there was a bit of a falling out between you and him, and that might be even one of the reasons why as to you left Montreal. It was. What was the big riff about and what had happened and why did it get so hostile? Well, it was the year after we won the Cup, and we were going through another difficult time winning hockey games.

And we're in Hartford and, well, actually, I got to go back. When he was an assistant coach with LeMire, we were in a practice and after practice we were in the semicircle doing shots, taking shots. And he's standing in the corner, passing the puck out. He came by me. He didn't pass me the puck. Went through the whole line, come back. I didn't get the puck. I'm there. Hey, Jacques, I'm waving the stick. And John, John, Johnny didn't pass me the puck.

We go through the line again, and we get to me, and he finally passed it to me. So I took the puck. Now he's getting ready to pass another one, the next guy. I take the puck, and I flip it. I'm at the far blue line. It goes boom, right top of the head he goes down so everybody runs over and checks him out i just shot grabbed another puck shot it and i went up to him you okay yeah no i'm

okay okay he had 10 stitches right right? Cut his head open. Anyway, I'm in the room getting a change and LeMah comes in. He said, what the hell are you doing? I'm there. What do you mean? What am I doing? He said, you hit him in the head with a puck. I said, I didn't mean it. I just flipped it back. You think I meant to hit him in the head? I said, if I meant to hit him in the fucking head, put me on the power play. I said, I was at the far side of the blue line. I just flipped it. The thing took off.

So I, can you apologize? So I went, I said, Hey, John, I'm sorry. You know, I, I, I mean, Hey, I was just flipping it, being a smart ass, you know? Anyway, he went off and got stitches, 10 stitches. That's when he was an assistant. Then when, of course he came, I I don't know I don't know what he thought of me be honest with you but I don't know what he thought anybody because he was just a weird guy and anyway he we're in Hartford and he went went around the room and started calling

this guy out that guy and he came to me and he said ah and chris when is the last time you had a fight and i'm like when's the last time i had a fight who the fuck you who who are you to fucking talk about fighting you know anything about fucking fighting fuck you so that didn't go over too good. And, um, we went to Buffalo and I was in Buffalo and I guess he called Serge and fucking cried to Serge, you know, that, uh, he couldn't control me and this and that. And now I was pretty close with Serge, really close, still am today. And Serge's best friend died that day.

And I could swear if his friend didn't die, he probably wouldn't have traded me. But we're in Buffalo, and I went to morning skate, and I wasn't with my line. I had the fucking odd man out jersey. And I go back to the hotel room and jock leperrier calls me he says uh hey knuckle i'm there wow what's up jock he said um the coach you want to talk to you i said hey lappy you know i love you and i respect you but if the

fucking coach wants to talk to me, tell him to have some fucking balls and call me himself. So, okay, okay. So he calls me and he says, ah, Chris. And they, ah, who's this? He said, ah, it's the coach. And they, ah, what's up? And he goes, ah, oh, I want to talk with you about your ice time.

Can you come down my room? I'm there, sure, what is to talk with you about your ice time. Can you come down my room? I'm there, sure, what is it? He gave me the room number. I come down there. The door's wide open. I walk in, and he's fucking looking at the floor, and he goes, oh, Serge is on the phone. He want to talk with you.

I'm there, okay. I get on the phone. It was Serge. He said, hey, big boy. I'm there, what's up the phone it was Serge he said hey big boy I'm there what's up he said uh I traded you I said no fucking way you you're shitting me he said no I traded you I said where he said St. Louis and I said I ain't going to fucking St. Louis Serge see you later and he goes well you have to I don't I said I don't have to fucking do anything I don't want to do I ain't going to St. Louis he said I said

what the fuck you traded me for he said you have a problem with the coach that's it you put me in a bad spot and anyway he said where you want to go I said I want I want to go to Boston he said, where do you want to go? I said, I want to go to Boston. He said, I can't fucking do that. I ain't doing it. So I know I was in there before, and Phil always used to talk to me, Esposito, and I knew he wanted me in New York. So I said, call Phil and ask him if he wants to be with the Rangers and kind of fell in Phil's lap.

I ended up going to New York. He called Ron Carone. He said, listen, I'm going to trade Chris to New York. He doesn't want to go there, Ron. And so it was nice. He sent me where I wanted to go, but I was fucking devastated. I don't know how guys do it. I just don't.

I was such a fucking loyal trooper to my teammates in that organization. It almost fucking broke me. Really did. I was fucking devastated. I should have tried that when they straightened me to Edmonton. Nope.

I'd like to go to Dallas or Tampa. Thank you. Call me me back later i would have just been surprised someone else wanted me yeah that's your first experience and you're a guy who just did whatever it took for his team his teammates then all of a sudden boom this is a business you know must have been really hard and winning a cup there too makes it even more difficult it sucked yeah and i tell you you, I couldn't believe it. I woke up in New York in the hotel. I was like, fuck, I can't believe I'm here.

I just couldn't. I had a hard time getting over it. I loved playing for the Canadiens. I really did. And I didn't want to play for another team. I didn't. How long did it finally take you to get used to your new teammates? I mean, you ended up playing with Marcel Dion there,

which must have been a very special thing. I know he was towards the end of his career, but still, still some good memories, I assume. Yeah, I had great memories. I had, listen, I love the guys in New York. I had a lot of fun. And when I went to Boston too, the hockey guys are fucking great. Bottom line, hockey guys are just good guys. And it's just, I had a hard time, not so much.

Getting used to new teammates and playing. I just felt, I felt such a loyalty to the organization for what they did for me and how much they helped me become a full-time NHL player. And I was so invested into emotionally into that whole thing. It was, it was really hard for me, but listen,

I still did my job. I stuck up for my teammates. You know, I fucking went out there and fought every night for my teammates. Same. I mean, the first game they, I was in Philly.

They put me in in fucking Philadelphia. They had five fucking idiots on the ice. Marubi, Chikrin, Kockner, Nachbauer, and Dave Brown. Fucking five of them. So I take your fucking pick. Thank you. Like, nuts. When you were with the Rangers, Guy Lafleur actually came out of retirement i mean he was 37

he was away from the game for three years were you shocked that that he pulled that move yeah it's funny like phil used to ask me so do you think he can score 20 i mean yeah i could score 20 fucking smoke on a pack of marlboros and do maria's to boot and And he said, no, really? I mean, he can fucking score 20. Is that all you need from him? And, and Phil was like, okay, I'm going to get them on my word. Fuck. He says, and he went and got him. Fuck him. We want him. So he ended up getting flour and he came and flour. Absolutely. Loved it. Brian Leach was a rookie and granado that year and they absolutely loved the idea they're playing with the flower he's smoking butts and fucking he couldn't

believe it either he never played out of quebec right fuck he walked around new york no one knew who the fuck he was he was having the time of his life for the first time in his life yeah not being under the microscope uh looking back on all the scraps like do you have some favorites of your own that you that you always look back on and appreciate do you have any guys that you remember that you had probably the biggest feud with what are the ones that stand out to you um you know my first couple all the time like my first time i against the bruins i fought jonathan o'Reilly and O'Reilly. Fuck, I knew he was a lefty, but I said, I'm going to fucking go.

And I, I threw fucking two rights and he come back, but dang, but dang, I couldn't, the fucking blood was pouring out of my head. I couldn't see. I remember, stayed on my feet though. And John D'Amico was breaking up, and I remember I wiped my fucking nose up his sleeve, and he fucking snapped at me. Don't wipe your fucking blood on it. I couldn't see.

I just fucking wanted to get one eye open so I could see something. The prick, and he's yelling at me, don't, fuck. I already took a fucking beating. He had fucking have a, have a hot, will you John? And so that the very beginning, because that fight, they had changed things for me, right? Biz I, I, after that fight, I, I said, if I want to last in this league, I got to fucking fight smart. I can't just go there. All these guys that are bigger than me,

and fucking swing away because I'm going to end up getting fucked up. I'm going to break my jaw, you know, my nose. I'm going to look like fucking – I said – and then it's going to be – it's going to get more difficult. And the more fights I lose, the fucking closer to the door I am. So I kind of – after that fight, I vowed I'd never let that happen again. I didn't. And I started to fight smart.

I fought the fight I wanted to fight. I would tie, people said, oh, I'd tie guys up. Fucking right I did. You fight a guy 6'4", fucking 230, you're not going to fucking tie him up? You're just going to let him hang you out at the end of your arm fucking ridiculous so i would fight smart i get in tight on guys i take their strength away if there were a lefty i take their left away and and try and throw my right and then sometimes i let go and throw the stun gun and then then other times, if a guy's a lefty, I'd take that punch away.

I'd throw uppercuts all the time. I'd switch hands. I like the stun gun. I called it the jersey jab. I had to. That's a T-shirt possibility. Yeah. I mean, moving away from the fighting, though,

you had some other pretty memorable moments. I know probably one of the best goals you ever scored was a penalty shot at the Forum. Do you remember that one? Yeah, it was incredible. That night, it was crazy. I always say that. I felt like Gretzky on a bad night.

I had two goals and one assist. I had three points. I was like, holy. And I was sick as a dog. It's funny how it works. I had a turtleneck on that game. I had the flu. I was sick as a dog. It's funny how it works. I had a turtleneck on that game. I, I was,

I had the flu. I was sick as a, now fucking guys would be out three weeks with the fucking flu. But, um, the, uh, it was crazy.

I ended up getting a lot of people that, how the fuck did you get a penalty shot? I mean, I could skate fucking halfway decent, but Randy Carlisle hooked me and pulled me backwards. I got snuck inside of him. I ended up with a penalty shot. And I remember Ludwig and Shelly, they're telling me,

they're looking at me. I'm fucking nervous, right, as anything. And Shelly's going, dump it, dump it in. Fucking Ludwig, the two of them. Shelly's going, dump it, dump it in. Fucking Ludwig, the two of them. And I remember Bob Ganey, he skated out to me. This calmed me right down.

He said, Knuckles, don't listen to fucking all them assholes on the bench. He said, do what you think is right. Just do what you think is right. And it fucking just took the heat right off me so i went in dropped my head and pull it to my backhand and throw it up and brian haywood got traded to us two weeks later come in the room walked in the room i goes what the fuck were you thinking he goes i was thinking you you, you were going to come in and drop your head and chew to right my pads. But I didn't. It was fucking hilarious.

Hey, Knuckles, I just watched it. That might be where Thomas Pocanek got the whole turtleneck idea for the Montreal Canadiens. 100%. 100%. I think so. Nice move, though. Very nice. Hey, little head fake. Go to the backhand, and you're going so fast that's why just easy to go shelf walking right i was back i was just gonna hop in ask about one more

memorable thing uh you didn't end up going to it but the all-star game you got uh mike milbury picked you in 1991 to attend the all-star game when it was your head coach of the Boston Bruins but you did you didn't end up going because you were hurt right I remember Mike that year he's skating around and he come up to me and practice that you're going the all-star game I'm I'm getting a pick this year you're going I'm there don't fucking pick me for that thing will you don't he said no I'm gonna pick you I'm there off. So we skate around and another couple of days go by and he come up to me and I said, I'm picking you. I'm picking you on there. Fuck off. I don't want to go to the fucking all-star game. I don't care. No, you're going. So fuck. Next thing I get

picked on there. Holy shit. He picked me. So we're going through a bad time again, a little funk. And Mike, we have practice the next day, but we couldn't get on the ice because they put the parquet down. So he said, you guys, you don't want to work for fucking 60 minutes a night. I'm going to show you what it is to work nine to five. So he calls us into the rink. We get in there nine o'clock puts on the game tape we start watching the tape gets to be about 11 30 he goes okay

you can go to lunch now be back here by 12 30 it was 11 30. So we're going to go over the floors. And we go out the locker room door, and I hear the ball bouncing out there in the fucking parquet. And I'd never been out in the parquet. I was a Celtics fan. So there's a couple guys out there, teammates, and one of the trainers. And we start having a little game of hoop. So we're playing. Trainer gets the ball.

Donnie, my boy, Donnie Warden. And I jump up to block the shot. I step on his fucking ankle and roll my ankle. My fucking ankle went like a balloon. So, bang, they think it's sprained. take a uh x-ray to say oh you got a sprained ankle blah blah blah so they're trying to get me back for the bruins but they're also trying to get me back for the all-star game it was like four weeks away and fuck i couldn't even walk i did oh you got a sprained ankle i fuck my ankle i'm telling you

they put me in that cold boot with the pressure and i'd be laying on the thing i'm like i got tears in my eyes i got oh you pussy pussy i mean uh anyway i end up getting an mri after fucking four weeks i skated on it five times. They were walking me around the bottom of the Boston Garden trying to get it loose. I fractured my talus bone in half. The talus bone is that bone in your ankle that makes everything move fucking in half. And I ended up having to have surgery right away.

They screwed, put two screws in it, screwed it together. I was fucked. So I couldn't play in the all-star game. But, you know, I guess, I mean, I didn't want to play in it, but, you know, I would have went, I would have had fun. I would have made it, you know, I would have had some fun. You would have been John Scott before have made it you know i would have had some fun but you would have been john scott before john scott what's that you would have been john scott before john scott uh man imagine twitter twitter was around then milbury naming nylan to the to the

austin that would have made twitter fucking explode honestly listen mike did it for me and he did it for brian scoge and DeMarce Shaw. He's like, I want to recognize these guys. Plus, those were the rules. He could fucking pick who he wanted. He didn't want to pick someone who fucking tiptoed through the tulips their whole fucking career. You know, he wanted to pick some guys who went through the fucking muck.

Didn't they change the rules after? Didn't they change the rules after that, Chris? Didn't they change the rules as far't they change the rules after that chris didn't they change the rules as far as how all-star players were awarded then yeah they took that away from that the league does it now gary does it fucking gary betman you went from a rule breaker to a rule maker i want to ask before you get traded to boston though going back to the middleton thing um yeah i know you said you got him with your glove. Did you ever, like, fear for your safety coming into games in Boston, knowing how rabid the fans were and what they might be capable of?

Not at all. Matter of fact, that night it happened. I had a couple of people that got in. They were watching the game, and they were saying on the on the air that oh fuck he's gonna have a problem when he comes out of there gonna people are gonna go after him right well i come out of the um old causeway street there that building next door where we all come out and the bus was waiting and i hear these fucking pug uglies from fucking I don't know where they were from

probably fucking Brewster Mass or somewhere out Springfield you know real fucking Bostonians and they're screaming yelling drunk the next thing I see out of the corner

of my eye fucking even yelling drunk the next thing i see out of the corner of my eye fucking alone and it was um it was um a friend of mine from south boston who is pretty well known i'll just leave it at that. Alrighty then. Yeah, we can actually, we can get to that later. Or if not, if you don't want to. Yeah, that's fine. All right.

Okay. Well, I guess we'll get to that now. There's a lot of famous pictures of the Stanley Cup. I think probably one of the more infamous ones is one with you and James Whitey Bulger in the Stanley Cup. Now, he was basically your de facto father-in-law at the time, correct? Yeah. What was your relationship with him? Was he intimidating just to see him in person because everybody knew who he was?

What was that like? I had a great relationship with him. And I say that, first of all, I didn't fucking marry him. I married Karen at the time. And I remember going over to pick her up for the first time and i went in and you know introduced blah blah i was the first male ever to go in that house like no one was allowed in that house and anyway i'm taking her out and we're going for the door to leave. And he goes, hey, Chris, come here. I want to talk to you.

Karen, wait in the car. So she went out in the car and I sat on the couch with him. And he's got a pistol. And he goes, listen, here's the deal. I know you love Karen. She loves you, blah, blah, blah. But if she ever wants to break up with you, get away from you for whatever reason, just let her go. Don't ever lay a hand on her. Be, you know, open doors for all that, you know,

typical dad talk and I'm there. Yeah, cool. I said, honestly, you won't have a problem with that. And I said, you didn't have to pull out a gun to tell me that. And he said, well, that's the way I do business. I said, okay. to tell me that and he said well that's the way i do business i said okay and i go out get in the car i'm ready to leave and the fucking door opens again and he leans out the door he said hey chris come here so if i can get out of the car i go back in the house and he fucking peels off fucking 10 crispy 100 bill said here you go have a good night. And off we were. But, listen, I knew

he had some shit going on, but I kept my nose out of it. And he was very, he didn't want me near any of that shit anyway. And, yeah, he used to come up here and go to games. He loved coming up here because no one

knew who he was. And he loved watching the Canadians beat the fucking Bruins every year. Did he really see the Bruins win the cup in Vancouver? Or is that a myth? That's a myth. Okay. Go ahead, Wynton. And then he has, when they got him in Santa Monica, whatever, 2011, 12,

he had the Canadians cup ring, right? Yeah, I didn't give him that. Here's the deal. All right. Sorry. Here's the deal. I gave my Stanley Cup ring to my dad. The minute I got it, he'd come up to Montreal that year for a game,

and I gave it to him I had one made for my mother and I had one made for my mother-in-law and um I don't know where in the hell he got that he I think he reached out the company got it made himself he loved coming up here to watch the games he really did and um yeah yeah I I never gave that to him i had i had another ring that when i got traded i did my golf tournament serge knew i gave my father my ring and he called me in the office i was up here in the summer doing my um tournament for the children's hospital and he called me at the hotel he said hey big boy come to see me so i came to called me at the hotel. He said, hey, big boy, come to see me. So I came to see him at the office.

I'm there. You fucking asshole traded me. You know, he said, ah, you put me in a bad spot. I'm now you. You suck. I was pissed. He goes, well, here, I got this made for you. He got me another.

I know you gave your ring to your father. So I have one made for you which was really it was awesome i was almost in tears um over it he he was awesome um other than this i have those rings i gave my father gave his ring to my son christopher and i have the other ring i mean other than outside the obvious, was there any other significance to giving your father that ring when you, when you first saw him after you'd been presented with it? Just, just my dad, you know, always being in my corner, you know,

making sure I had skates and equipment, getting me to the rink, all that shit, you know, I, you know, I, my father, my hero always have, always will be. Chris, I want to talk about The Last Gladiators for a second. It was a documentary from 2011 directed by Alex Gibney. He does a tremendous job with those. You really opened up for that documentary. I thought you bared your soul.

Was that a painful process for you to do, or was it somewhat liberating to maybe get it off your chest? It was liberating. The fucking pain was before, baby. Let me tell you. You know, I end up in a bad place, you know? The booze and then the painkillers and then from the painkillers to the heroin.

Yeah, I was in a fucking bad place. And, you know, I got myself there. I don't fucking point no fingers. It wasn't my daddy. It wasn't my mommy. It wasn't fucking hockey. It was me. And, um, you know, I, I'm grateful that I had some help from the NHL though, to get out of it, you know, um, to, to get to treatment and, and get well, um, I'll forever be grateful to those guys dr shaw and dr lewis and and dan croner um i was going to ask you about bob gainey as well he he had a big part in helping

you ended up getting sober and i kind of just go back to that story you told of when you were on the ice and he calmed you down before the penalty shot so it seems like he was always the guy there to to lift you up when you needed it most yeah bob was all that guy you know like fuck i was very emotional i was always get up and go fucking ready to kill someone and and bob was that calming influence um you know he always he always got me to take a breath, you know, when I needed to. And he was good at that. Bob Ganey ended up giving me a card for Dan Cronin, the guy from the substance abuse and behavioral health in the NHL. Bob knew I was having problems, and he gave me that card, and he said,

Chris, if you ever want to, just this guy give him a call sometime uh he can help you out so i thought like oh i'm gonna call him a guy's gonna give me fucking maybe they'll give me a check for five grand a month or something but that wasn't it he was he was an interventionist with the league and he was gonna help me get sober, which he did. One other thing you mentioned on the George Strombolopoulos show was during your career, especially being the fighter is you had a hard time opening up about your, your feelings because you kind of had to keep this hard exterior,

obviously probably throughout that whole process. Have you learned a lot how to like you know be be a lot more open and and you know kind of show your feelings off more yeah you know listen I I never really have much a problem doing that but I knew not to do it around hockey right you know that from your experience biz it's not like you go there and say, Hey guys, you know, I don't feel like doing this tonight. You know, my hands are sore.

Mentally. It's tough tonight for me. You know, I just, I just knew I couldn't fucking pull that card out in an NHL locker room. He just, they fucking laugh at you. So I would just,

you know, I'd have my few beers, settle down, relax. I love my job. I love, I didn't have a problem with the fighting. I'm not going to sit here and tell you, fuck, it was easy. Or I wasn't scared or any of that. No, I was, but I love my fucking job. I love sticking up for people.

I love sticking up for my teammates. And then I love playing hockey. There's nothing like fucking scoring a goal in the nhl i fucking love to score goals and when i when i would i just i go bat shit when i'd score a goal i loved it are you are you um try to hop in there all right are you happier that the conversation is a little bit more public now and guys now in an NHL locker room? I mean, you saw Tuka Rask where I don't think he was there mentally in the bubble last year and also had some family stuff going on where he did feel like the league is in a place where he can say that and walk away, although, mind you, there was some criticism,

but for people I think who don't have a clue as to what's going on. Yeah, well, here's the deal. You know you know for him it came down to his family right his family or his team well all day every fucking day my family comes before my team i don't think there's a question of that so the people who question that probably don't have a fucking family or they don't care about their family chris they talk about some records never being broken uh march 31st 1991 verse hot fit i'm gonna rattle them off holding fighting elbowing roughing misconduct elbowing instigator on sportsmanlike conduct fightingconduct, 10 total penalties, only 42 minutes. What do you remember about that night? And a partridge and a pear tree.

I remember it was a game. We were playing half in the playoffs, so it was one of them fuck you games at the end of the year. Who's going to fuck who harder? And it got nasty and dirty. And Samuelson was running around I was getting fucking cuckoo and anyway Bobby Holik Herfa had there that uh Holik he's coming up the boards and I was coming off the bench and he had his head down looking at the puck. And I hit him with an elbow. I broke his nose. I got a five-minute major. I would be fucking out of the league if I did this like last week.

I'd be done. I'd be in court. Anyway, I break his nose. And then the other one was that little Rob Brown. No one knows that Rob Brown. He played in Pittsburgh. He's a good goal scorer. Didn't he have 50 goals with Mario?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, him. Anyway, I didn't know it, but he had – and everybody hated Rob Brown. He had that face you fucking hated. And apparently he was going bald, so he plugs and i didn't know anyway he come and he fucking tried to get involved with me and i just mushed him aside and he come back kind of scratching at me so i threw him down i just him, ripped his helmet off, and then I grabbed him by the hair. And I just fucking started pulling his hair out of his head, right? But I pulled his plugs out.

Oh, Jesus. He had plugs. He just must have spent like $10,000, $20,000 on plugs. Signing bonus on plugs and you're ripping them out. Way to go, Chris. And I get back in the locker room. I didn't even know. I was so incensed. I get back in the locker room. I didn't even know I was so incensed.

I get back in the locker room and I look and I had all here in between my fingers and the trainer fridge said to me, said, Knox, you got here between, is that Rob Brown's here? And anyway, I took it out and you could see there were plugs and anyway, fridge taped them up in the room on the whiteboard and he put rob brown's plugs and he taped them on the board it was hilarious the team come in afterwards everybody was like because no one liked that little brown and you know what the worst part was i met little brown in edmonton probably about five years ago he's the nicest guy in the world yeah they always are they always are

oh i felt like an asshole oh shit all right chris you'll live in montreal these days or just outside montreal you said before we talked yeah uh i want to bring up the canadians for a minute now i want to ask you does the franchise cut itself off at the knees with their insistence on having a french-speaking coach and still kind of being having that mentality does that hurt the team in the long run i do i i i think so i i just don't feel they listen not that a french guy can't coach and it's not that a french guy can't do the job as a GM, but I think they limit themselves when they only pick from a small pool of talent. I just think they limit themselves. Yeah. It makes sense. Less guys you're picking from. Also too,

you mentioned you you've been doing a lot of fishing up there. What do you, what kind of fish you pull out of the St. Lawrence up there? I assume when that's where you fish. No, I'm in the Lake of Two Mountains here. It's connected to it, but musky, pike, bass, stuff like that. Walleye. Is it Habs Lunch? What's your show

on the radio? Mine is off the cuff. My show's off the cuff. I do Habs Lunch from noon to one, and then one to three is off the cuff, my show. Can people catch that online anywhere if they're not in Montreal? Yeah, you can catch it online, TSN 690 Montreal. Listen live. Well, man, we can't thank you enough for coming on.

You're right, this was long overdue. You owe us a beating for waiting this long, but it was awesome to catch up. I appreciate you guys having me on. Certainly, I've talked to biz before i i never got to meet the pink whitney uh hey we'll get together and uh the real admiral knuckles i always ask i always ask the guys on the way out is there one story that you have in the bank that you always like sharing that you think people will get a kick out of because sometimes at the end it's always fun getting that last one where it comes off your head if not no worries we just cut it out well here here's one i forgot to mention it when i would that day we picked lafleur lemare and um lupian up i was in the hallway outside the canadian locker room in the garden and

claude ral was standing outside their locker room and i said hey listen um i was drafted by you guys to claude ral and i said i'd love to get a pair of tickets up in montreal the next game in the playoffs and he said oh i don't take care of this. It's the guy over there. And I went over and it was Howard Grumman. His father was the general manager at the time, Irving Grumman. He came out to St. Paul. Anyway, I go up to Howard and I say, Hey, Hey, Howard, my name's Chris Nyland. I was drafted by you guys. I was hoping I could get a couple of tickets to the next game up in Montreal, the Bruins and the Canadians in the playoffs.

He said, you were drafted by us? What's your name again? I said, it's Chris Nyland. So he opens the fucking book. He goes to the back page. He looks. He goes, okay, okay yeah you were drafted but yep 19th round right here

okay yeah sure we'll get your tickets next game in Montreal so I'm there yeah I run out I tell Fran I said fucking right we got the tickets we drive to Montreal we get up there you know fuck I'm still a college guy I didn't have

pot to piss in or a window to throw it out and we drive up there, you know, fuck, I'm still a college guy. I didn't have pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. And, dang, we drive up there. I go to the ticket booth. I'm there, hey, you got tickets for Chris and Island? Lady leaves. She comes back. She said, yep, that'll be $270. Oh, no.

COD. COD got you. $270. Fuck, I didn't have it. Franny had to put it on his card. I didn't even have a credit card. They had credit cards back then? I didn't. I was in fucking college. I didn't have a credit card.

Traveler's checks. Cash. No cell phones either to call up and yell at them fucking right away. That was your signing bonus. My signing bonus? $7,500. Times have changed. $7,500 and $60,000 my first year.

Canadian. The last one it was worth more than the U.S. dollar. Chris, like I said, it's been a while, man, but it was well worth the wait. It's been I feel like we could do this for probably two hours with you. But the story's been unreal. It's been a blast having you on. I think people are really going to enjoy it. So thanks so much for coming on with us and sharing so many crazy stories with us. It's been a pleasure. Appreciate it, you guys.

Great to meet you and good luck with the show. It's awesome. Huge thanks to Knuckles for coming on with us. That was a long time coming. We've been playing phone tag for a long time, so it was great to finally get him on and hear some of those stories in the first person. Great guy, Knucks. We do want to let you know that our friends at Peter Millar have collaborated

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I've never had a story that got longer and longer, and you got further edged out to your seat. And that was just one of them. That's not even to speak of fighting Joe Thorne naked in the shower, like Easton Promises or whatever else he did. But Torrey Mitchell, classic guest. So we're going to send it over to Torrey Mitchell right now. JR's on the team.

I mean, he just, he was like. Non-stop. Hollywood, man. He was Hollywood. He was like, he was like Deion Sanders of hockey. He was prime time. You know, still is. He's just like, he's, he's just on, he's just on point always, you know?

And you're like, man, is this, is this a show or something no it's not it's jr being jr doing jr things and i want to be a part of it a lot of our listeners might not even remember the actual prank can you like give it in a nutshell synopsis we'll let we'll let tori explain it but jr came on and i've heard this story as most of the league has through the grapevine is the craziest story ever it comes down to these guys being in vegas and jr saying to setaguchi and tori we're going out tonight follow me and you can kind of take it away for how it began and how it went and we got the version from the prankster now we get the version from the man who was pranked yeah and this like to give even more perspective to your listeners yeah go all in yeah this story like so to give even more perspective to your listeners. Yeah, go all in.

Yeah, this story, like, so I guess it happened in, like, 2009 or 2010. And I was lining up for face-offs, like, my last year, 2018. And, like, complete strangers, like, guys that I'd never talked to in my life. They'd be lined up next to me and be like, is that, is that scare tactic story true? And I'd be like, wow, this is wild. This is that good of a story. So it started, it started like the first week of August. He called me and said, um, we had just signed, uh, Dan Boyle and Brad Lukowich. And he's like, I'm going to get a private jet. And eight of us are going to fly to Vegas for a golf trip to introduce the new guys to the team. And I was like,

and where are we going? This is a week before training camp. He's got it planned. I was like, okay. Like at the time I was pretty big into training. Like I was like a week before, like this is pushing it. But so I was like, I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. He's like, no, you need to come. I'm going to bring you and Sato, Sato Gucci.

I want like a mix of young guys and some veteran guys. So I kind of had no had no choice in the matter. He's like, you're coming. All we're going to do is golf, have a nice dinner. We're not even going to go out. We'll play some cards at the table. Just, yeah, you know how that is. Sure.

So we get there and he gets a private jet for us. We get there, get to the golf course, and he's adamant about me and Settle golfing with him. He's like, I'm taking the kids today. I'm taking the kids today. Okay, sounds good. Get on the golf course. He's like trying his hardest to get us like double shots of vodka or whatever.

trying his hardest to get us like double shots of vodka with whatever and uh and i'm i mean it's like 100 degrees there in august i'm like wow okay we're going we're going we're having fun we'll get back to the room we got like an eight bedroom suite or some nonsense i loved it and um and he says okay uh i'm gonna take the kids down to the blackjack table. Come with me. So, like, geez, he's really taking a liking to us on this trip. Great. So, we go down to the table. He's giving us money to gamble with.

He's giving us money. He's got some guy who's in on this joke at the table. So, he's like, hey, are you guys uh you hear about this party tonight this big like vegas house party supposed to be like off the charts and uh if you guys get uh to if you guys get there the code word i'll give you i'll give you a call what's your phone number i'll give you the code word to get in the party so my eyes light up i'm like whoa this is the real deal okay uh wait sorry no part of you was like uh we don't even know this guy no i'm thinking like jr is so fired up about this and i was like okay all right get back upstairs the other guys didn't even know what was going on

jr kept it to himself so he says hey, Hey, I'm taking, it's like 8 PM right now. He's like, Hey, I'm taking the kids to this party. We're going to scope it out, let you know if it's fun and we'll call you and you can come. So the five other guys are like, why would we separate? Like, let's stick together. He's like, no, we're going first. I got a limo coming, just the three of us. The code word was Dakota, okay? So we get to the front door. I got this loser Christian Adige. Oh, yeah, Ed Hardy.

Such a baggy shirt. Such a baggy shirt. The tinfoil print. So embarrassing, like across the chest with the little like sparkly things on them right it was you know it was diamond encrusted oh yeah just terrible and uh and we get to the front and it's this massive bouncer who turned out to be like an offensive lineman for the arizona cardinals and uh and he's he looks at us and he's like, what's the code word? I'm like, Dakota, Dakota. So he's like, shuts the door, opens the door. We walk in. It's,

and we asked JR, like, how are we supposed to dress for this? Like, is it just like t-shirt or like, should we like throw the coat on? No, just t-shirt. We walk in, It's a black tie event going on in there. So I'm like, dude, are you serious? We look like bums. This guy comes out of this back room and gives us blazers. So I'm like, okay, boom. Throw the blazer on, feeling good, love it.

I'm like, good fit, Not bad. Walk into the room. Everyone is like placed at these. It's kind of like a big like kitchen slash living room, like little bar on the side, just like a open space in a house when you walk in, basically. And they kind of bring us over to the uh a couch and that's where we're standing then we sit down on the couch we're like hmm like is someone gonna give us offer us a drink or what's going on this guy comes out and says uh says tori uh devon and jeremy thank you so much for coming tonight. You can hear a pin drop at this point. How many people are in here roughly?

Sorry. Yeah, so everyone's probably like 20 to 30 feet away from us at these tall little round tables, little bar tables. And there's maybe 30, 35 people, all actors and actresses. They're dressed like really nice. 35 feet, all actors and actresses, but dressed like really nice. The girls are dressed in like ball gowns and the guys are in nice suits. And so this guy comes out, he's like, he introduces himself as the host of the party.

And he says, we want to welcome the three, these three guys to our to our life force party. And then he just like disappears into this back room and everyone starts talking again. And I'm like, what's life force? Hello, JR, what's life force? He's like, dude, we're in. Like, just relax. It's like, we're here. Don't think anything of it. I'm like, okay. Like little uneasy. Still want to know what life force is.

Waitress comes over, offers us a little champagne. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. We're settling in. Nice. Uh, excuse me. What's life force. And she turns, she looks at me and she goes, Oh, you don't know. And walks away. I'm like, here we go. Red flags. She comes back. She's got three shots. They look like, I mean, dude, it's blood.

There's blood in the shot. I'm like, I'm not drinking that. There's no way I'm drinking that. Big bouncer comes over behind the couch. He's like leaning over us. He's like, are you going to drink that? You better drink that. I'm like, Holy smokes. So I look over at Jr. He's he slams the shot. He's got like red going down his chin like this. Like he's loving,

he's like, it's not blood. It might be, it might be blood. I'm like, Holy smokes. I'm like, dude, this is getting out of control right now. What what's the next move here are we getting out of here he's like no no just play it cool play it cool so then i noticed in my blazer there's like these two big blocks i'm like i'm like closing my pocket i'm like they're listening to us someone's listening to us there's microphones in our blazers so i try to open the pockets can't open the pockets seto's freaking out too but he was hammering the double vodkas on the golf course so he's kind of like i think he's in his own world then the host the host comes back out says okay it's time to get

life force going clearly because they were listening to me and i wanted to get the freak out of there this lady comes, bra and panties. She gives a double kiss to everyone in the party. I'm like, what is going on? Give the double kiss. She goes around. The host comes back out. You can hear a pin drop again.

He says, all right, that's our main event for the evening, and we're so excited that she's given herself the light force. I'm losing it at this point. I'm like giving herself to what? Dude, where are we? What is happening? Did you think maybe gangbang or something? Like, you don't even want to sacrifice.

Yeah. Okay. You went right there. I would have been thinking maybe the other thing. Yeah, that's that's what Seta was thinking. I was thinking more like, okay, we're vampires already. And JR not panicking is kind of freaking you out even more. You're like, what the fuck?

Why isn't he worried? He's like, play it cool, man. Play it cool. I'm telling you, I double-checked this party. It's good. I'm like, you didn't talk. You met the guy at the blackjack table. How is this legit so he's like he's like calm down calm down so now like they're clearly listening to me at least i'm convinced they are which they were the guy comes back out

because i'm panicking i'm ready to get out of there i'm like dude we got to get out of here enough is enough like this is so outrageous what's? I don't know what this guy comes. They open these sliding doors. They wheel out like it's a hospital bed basically. But, and there's a big drape over it. And I'm like, that's the girl. That's the girl that was in her bra. That's the girl. I could like almost see her toes up with the sheet covering her toes. I like that's her they rip the thing up all the all the like all these people are like gathering in around this table at this point and i'm like how do i where's my escape here how do i get out of here they rip the drape off it's her she's filleted from the neck down to the waist. I mean, they had her intestines.

Her heart might have still been beating. There was whipped cream and strawberries and real blood. And I was just like, holy smokes. By the time I could take my first breath, J.R. has beelined it for the front door, which is like 60 feet from us he's like at this i'm out he sprint for the front door the bouncers grab him take a knife out and just start going to town on him boom and i'm freaking out like crying like oh my how is this happening he's got a white button up on and he's got these fake blood patches i'm talking a pool of blood he's a fish out of water no he's dead he's dead dory well no at this point he's going why why like i'm dude spinning spinning spit oh fish out of water i i'm like what do what do i do

here like clearly i'm not attacking a six foot five 400 pound bouncer with a bloody knife who just shank jr so i jump up on the bar i said it watches. I jump up on the bar. J.R.'s like a fish out of water, like basically crying for help from for me and Sato. And I'm like, I try to shoulder the window a little bit. I'm like, what's this window going to give here? No, it doesn't give the whole party turns around. The host says, Tori, get down from there. Everything's going to be OK. I i'm looking around like give me a glass of champagne i need like a knife knife okay at this point all these people in the party

have put the you know the contacts to change the color of your eyes in like your vampire oh my god drill a video and yeah and like little teeth okay oh my and they're up i'm on top of the bar they're probably like 20 30 feet away because scare tactics this tv show they they never um they always like take away like harmful objects you know like so you can't yeah like hurt one of the actors or actresses and i'm up but i don't know i'm freaking out he's dead at this point so I jumped down and the sliding doors that they brought this like hospital bed in with this chick um is is right behind me so I like I shoulder it I kind of like hit shoulder it hit it with my butt and I kind of like break the like bottom part of it and I squeeze through and I just take off i left settle for dead where was settle this whole time

settle this is i'll tell you so i i'll tell you what his train of thought was phenomenal so i'm sprinting through this house now i'm in a uh the game room which i'm like oh animals looking at me freaking out i look I look, I see an office. So I jump on the chair, jump on the desk, right through the window. I could have been on the 10th floor of the house. I didn't care. Right through the window, I was probably 12 feet up, landed in the bushes, brushed myself off, and I'm going.

And I'm bleeding too, like through the window. It was a double pane window so it's window three inches window and and like I went when I went back to see the window it was like perfect hole in the first one and then like jaggered like triangles on the other window like I could have killed my got halfway through and just kill myself but man the adrenaline was rushing I fly through the window land in the bushes brush myself off and take off and i am running and running i know jr said i ended up when he was telling the story i listened to it he said i ended up in wayne newton's backyard dude i was running with like beautiful

white horses just next to me going and i didn't know where i was in the middle of Nevada somewhere. We're 45 minutes off the strip. He took me out to this stupid house. And so I'm hiding and I can hear people saying, Tori, Tori. I'm like, of course, what am I running from? Vampires are like flash speed. Like I got no chance. I'm dead. He's fictional.

I'm dead. So I'm taking out my phone. I see a, I see like a front window to like a house pretty far away and the lights on so someone's maybe in their kitchen or something and i'm going right through that window so i start taking off again running and i got my phone and it's seto calling me and i'm like so i answer i'm like get out of there get out of there they're vampires he's like it's a it's a it's a joke it's a joke and i'm like what what do you mean it's a joke so they end up like finding me these vampires and uh i make my way back to the house i mean i'm bleeding like crazy thank thank god i

had my uh that blazer on that they gave me because like my back was all cut up i got a big scar in my arm here from it but i get back to the house and he's he's alive i mean he's got but he's got his shirt unbuttoned with all the stupid blood patches still on. He's got this big smile on his face. And he's like, I got you. And I didn't know, like, I wanted to hug him or punch him or, or cry. I didn't know what I was feeling. Settle was just shell shock. I'm like, dude, he's like, you just left me here. I'm like, yeah, I was fighting for my own life, man. Like, I don't know what to tell you. And he's like, I was like, what, what were you doing? He's like, you just left me here? I'm like, yeah, I was fighting for my own life, man.

Like, I don't know what to tell you. And he's like, I was like, what were you doing? He's like, I was going to just eat a piece of her and become one of them. So he was all in. He's like, I'm not getting killed by him. I'll do whatever they say. So JR ran for the front door when the host grabbed a piece of her body and, like, took a bite out of it. And Sato saw that and was like, I'm going to have to eat this to survive and become one of them.

He bought in. He's bought in. He was all in. That's a big fan of the Lost Boys. Is that crazy or what? It's the most insane story i the first time i heard i still the craziest thing to me is like dude you could have legit sliced your neck open on that fucking oh yeah like they were probably panicked when that happened a little bit i don't

i don't have blinds in here to show you but you know you know like the cheap lines that like you can look through they're all like little ones Those are the ones that I jumped through. I didn't even know what was on the other side. I didn't know there was two windows. And you had no idea what floor, like it could have been 20 feet. You were just getting no idea. I was just,

I was like gone. Did you need stitches right to the hospital? Oh yeah. No, they had the EMT crew there. And then the best part is Rob Blake and his wife come out of the garage. They were watching the whole thing unfold and all the cameras and stuff. Oh, my God.

That is so good, dude. And I was like, I saw him and then Jumbo and Dan Boyle. So the reason the guys weren't there is because Jer had them next. He was going to get them next. So like we were going to be like. Oh, the other guys at the hotel, you're saying. Yeah. So he had a limo waiting for them to come at.

Like we left at 8 or something. They were supposed to come at 9. But because we broke. The homeowner came downstairs from upstairs or something and said, everyone out. We're not doing another one. Like I broke the bear claw in the game room running over it, and I broke the window.

So she was like, everyone out of here. No. And I was just like. They're like, we're good. We got the shot. Totally. The greatest prank in league history. The craziest one I've ever heard.

When you got back to the house, was the actors and actresses, they all started clapping and stuff? They were, like, consoling me. They were coming up and just like, it's okay. One by one. You're all good, man. It's okay. Because you're not supposed to be able to escape.

They're supposed to say, it's a joke. But I guess I didn't hear it as i was running through the house or what but did you was that gonna go on tv was that gonna be an episode yeah so jr had the footage of it so we got back to san jose and then uh doug willison kind of heard about it and was like, you know, this is pretty ridiculous. He was not pleased that this transpired a week before camp.

And he's like, you're not, this is not going on TV. He's like, this is not what I meant when I said, take the young guys under your wing. Jr. Can't use them.

Vampire wing. Right. So, so he, he ended up uh we ended up watching it just like just the older guys there was like 10-15 guys watched it but it was really funny but they didn't have uh they didn't have like the hidden cameras outside the main room so they didn't have me running they had me breaking through the door and getting into the game room but they didn't have the footage after that me me going through the window. It was comical. Like the homeowner, she brought me over like the window and she like brought the blinds up. It was like Tracy Morgan's – it didn't last very long, the show, but it was like there was maybe like a season or two, and we were in one of them, but it never aired on TV.

So was the jacket actually bugged so they could hear you talk? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was right. They had two microphones in it. Huge thanks to Tori once again with that story, man. It's incredible when you hear a story for the second time from a different version and you get his perspective because that was wild even wilder than the time j i told it so uh tori's interview was presented by ocb rolling papers ocb is the largest rolling paper brand in the world and has been one with nature crafted

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Unreal deal. Also, you want to follow OCB at Instagram at OCB USA to stay in touch with the natural wonder of OCB. Must be 21 to buy the papers and follow the social accounts. OCB, get some. All right, next up, we have Nathan McKinnon. Second appearance in the show because we did our first one up in nova scotia a couple years back so it was great to get reacquainted with nathan great guy hell of a competitor hell of a player uh and some great insight too so uh without further ado the nate dog nathan mckinnon well it's only been a year

and a half since we last had this guy on, though it feels much longer. Since we last had him on, he's won a Lady Bing. He was named a year-end All-Star. Sorry. It's an award. Lady Bing. I forgot I won that. Finished second in the Hot Trophy voting, and he had a fantastic season that made him must-watch TV

during the playoff bubble. It's a pleasure to welcome back to the Spittin' Chicklets podcast, the Nate Dog, Nathan McKinnon. How we doing, brother? Good. Thank you, man. I'm doing good. Just getting ready for the season here. I'm bummed out. the spit and chiclets podcast the nate dog nathan mckinnon how we doing brother good thank you man i'm good i'm doing good just uh getting ready for the season here i'm bummed out uh thanks for joining us here but i'm bummed out we're not gonna have you guys in boston this year yeah

it's been becoming an annual tradition me going over the garden to see the avalanche so i'm gonna be bummed out you guys aren't coming through i know man i wish uh i wish we could have came up to boston as well to do the the second round of the sandbag. Oh, you want a rematch? I was going to say, I'm surprised to get – We might as well just get going with that. I'd love a rematch. We've been trucking people this summer.

I saw that. I was surprised they gave you the Lady Bing after how you reacted to me on that front nine. I thought that was pretty rude of you. The Golders must have not – You're the one who started all this. I know. I came up with the name technically.

What do you want, rights now? Yeah. For the discount contract you're on? I saw that it got like a million views. I wouldn't mind like a little piece of that. Yeah, he's like most underpaid player in the league. I need something from you, mutts. It would be fun to come up to Boston this summer

and do the second match here. Okay, five and one. Let's chalk it down already. Well, we got more between then, Biz. We're not going to glance right over, though. The last time you did see R.A., I believe, was you were in the garden and walking

by some workers who yelled out, Hey, R.A., and didn't notice you. Is that true? This guy's a legend, man. I can't go anywhere with R.A. Everyone's all over him. What a guy. That a legend, man. I can't go anywhere with R.A. Everyone's all over him. What a guy. Yeah, it was funny, man. We were just – R.A. was nice.

Stopped after, said what's up after we played the Bruins, and, yeah, we were just walking out. Not that I'd expect anyone to know me, but this guy, might as well have been Justin Bieber. These people are going nuts for R.A. He's a legend. He's like, oh, thanks for coming down, R.A. He's like, actually, can you give me a couple slices of pizza?

That's why I was coming down. I know usually you guys don't finish it. I don't want to get thrown in the garbage here. I thought with Sid, a lot of times I got to take the picture. You know, people would be like, hey. Hold the jacket. Yeah, I thought I was going to have to take a picture with these people with R.A. So I'm glad that didn't happen at least.

So I didn't have to get that shame. I heard there was a time that you were taking a picture of some, for somebody of them and said, and they were even like, Hey, Nate, make noises at the baby, make the baby laugh. You were taking the picture and also one. That probably happened. Yeah. What did you and Sid do all fall in Halifax with the crazy schedule? One-on-one drills.

Yeah. Just begging, begging me the whole time no uh uh yeah we were skating then we got locked down um we went into like a red zone back home uh so we couldn't skate for a bit but we got a few in before we left for our cities but yeah it was crazy man it was uh tough to get into a routine um I think that's for everybody, though. It's just the rinks got shut down with everything else. So I don't know really why, but kind of the way it worked out. But I feel good now for sure. Going back to the last time you played, the bubble experience, we've talked to a bunch of different guys and how kind of crazy that was.

But for you, it was tough for your team, too. I mean, you were amazing personally, but so many injuries. And you look back at that Dallas series, it was like six or seven guys are out. It must must've been frustrating to see the success they went on to have to even get to the final. Yeah, I mean, it was, uh, both of our goalies got hurt. Um, Landy Calvi, uh, Don score. A lot of guys went down. Um,

yeah, we got down 3-1 you know honestly I feel like that came down to our special teams our power play wasn't great our PK wasn't amazing either and 5-on-5 I thought we played really well against Dallas but they were a tough team to play against

they came at us hard they're a big heavy team but yeah I would have loved to see us with a full full lineup and uh you know there's there's uh injuries with every team in the playoffs but you think in the bubble it'd be no travel lots of rest and recovery it would there wouldn't be like that but both that's a joke that's a tough one what are you gonna do when both goalies go you mentioned the power play struggled a bit against Dallas. Do you think maybe you used up too many of those power play goals in the series before that?

Maybe when you guys were running up the score. We gave all of our looks against Arizona. We gave it away. Back to back. You should have done that, man. 8-1 thumpings. That was kind of like the start of how you guys started rolling. I think you finished your in in-house gym though and you talked last time about sid kept dragging you over to his place does sid come over to your place now to train

now that you got it all dialed in no no still hasn't come over to train yet at my gym uh i didn't go over to his happen i didn't go over to his gym, though, this year. So I got that. I'm putting my foot down here. I'm going to stand up for myself against the kid. Yeah. No, he hasn't trained at my gym this offseason. Spends $500 on a gym, never goes in at one time. What he did do on my property, he's a psychopath.

I have like a boat launch. It's like 70 yards, like very steep. Um, and he would run like he'd come over and do like, he would sprint up the boat launch like 12 times and run back down it. It was crazy. I tried it. I almost died. This guy's a savage. So that's what he would do. He wouldn't use the gym, but he would use the property. So we'll take it close enough to the gym. He's getting there. he's getting closer talking about the injuries is it worse to have a year end like that like

in a flurry of injuries or to go to like ot of a game seven and lose um both i mean it was hard it was hard uh you know even when gruby got hurt uh Frankie came in. He was really banged up, too. I don't know. He just could never get healthy. He hit a really bad hip. He was lights out all season. You know, he came in hurt, and he couldn't play after game five or six. And Hutchie actually played really well.

You know, we won. Actually, Frankie got hurt when we were down 3-1. He couldn't play. Then Hutchie won game five and six. And, man, it stings. We even got the lead with like two minutes left, one and a half minutes left against Dallas. And we couldn't hold on. They won no tea.

We're up 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, 4-3. We just couldn't put them away. They're a resilient team, well coached by rick and it's just unfortunate how long of an adjustment was it playing without fans would did you adapt right away did other guys struggle with that it wasn't too bad honestly um obviously it's a lot more fun um the only time you notice is when you score it's just dead silent you know that's that's really the only time when you're in it. A lot of adrenaline's going. You know, I'm glad we get to travel this year and go to other rinks,

not just in a bubble. That would have been tough again. But, you know, hopefully, you know, the vaccine gets rolling out and we get fans by playoffs. That'd be great. So you get the full season with Kale McCarr. And it's like to do what he did in the playoffs when he left UMass Amherst was one thing,

but to come back and just dominate the way he did, you kind of called it to us earlier, but no surprise throughout watching him play the season? Yeah, a kid special, man. You know, even in the playoffs, he was our best player a lot of nights. He would dominate us, you know, being a D-man,-man which was crazy you know he'd be all over the ice you know this guy must hit 30 posts this year i think he's going to score 30 um maybe not this year but in a short one good save good save no pressure i hope he scores

30 this year get a couple second apples for sure. No, but in an 82-game season, he'll definitely score 30 multiple times, I think. He's got a great shot. He's like a fourth forward out there sometimes with his speed. And, you know, we're lucky to have him for sure. And what we were talking about, the World Juniors, USA, ended up pulling it out. It was a hell of a gold medal game.

But you guys have these absolute studs playing in that tournament that are going to be there soon. It's crazy. And to see this team, and you've been there for a while now, really be set up to go on an absolute run here. It's got to feel so good. Yeah, it feels great, man. A lot of tough years.

There's only three of us left me ej and gabe left from the first team um you know we've been through some tough some some dog days for sure with this organization you know with everybody starting from the top of the tournament around and it's cool that we're still they haven't traded all of us yet so we're still here and we got some horses like you said like you know Bo and Byram um you know I thought he was the best player and I guess that Zegra was really good as well but I thought Bo was dominant in that in that uh tournament um new hook Baron um so we're we're loaded man but you know gotta gotta execute doesn't mean anything you know with

uh gotta get the job done. And, you know, hopefully we can get it before we get all those prospects and keep going on runs, you know, after. Probably a big reason why the Tyson-Barry trade happens, just having all these D in the pipeline. Everybody was well aware how close you guys were. What's it like not only losing probably your best friend, but a guy who was teeing you up on the power play,

a guy that you're playing quite a bit on the ice with? Yeah, even off the ice, man, we'd hang out every day. We'd sit beside each other on the plane, pick him up for every home game. Yeah, it's tough. You know, he's in a – I think he's in a great situation now. I think he's comfortable in Edmonton. He's obviously playing with a couple decent players there. Yeah, I think Tyson

will dominate this season and get some of that respect back. Obviously, it was a tough start in Toronto, but I thought he played really well when Keith came in. Hopefully, he can build on that with Edmonton here. Whit just mentioned the juniors.

I want to bring up Bowen Byram. I know he's not officially on the team yet. Everyone thinks he's going to stick. I know he practiced with you guys in the bubble. He never got into a game. What should we expect from this kid, Nate, if he does stick with the team? I hear he's like a real life of the potty type. Yeah, he is, man. He was quiet with us in the bubble. He was

an ace, but I saw that one world junior video with him last year i think he was calling everyone like kitty cat and everyone just says he won't stop talking so that's fun man i like guys like that uh you know it's fun to bring a little life life to the party um you know i'm sure he won't be like that right away but you know if he's playing this year maybe halfway through the year he'll start to loosen up yeah get'll have to get him going. Hey, wait. Can't be coming in hot like that.

Can't be doing that. Who would ever do that? Who would ever do that? On our team, probably the one team that you could. We're pretty loose. Yeah, you don't do it to Mark, Ricky, John, LeClair, Lyle, Lodeline, Mario, you know, I learned that one. Hey, first game of the year, Sackix walking by.

He's in a fucking Speedo reading out the game card of who's starting. Burnaby Joe, holy fuck fuck looking great in person you're like who is this kid i don't think i've heard this story with what did you do i just like right i will i i played the first nine games of the year in the minors and i was like you know i've been there for like a year and a half or whatever so i knew all the guys i was really loud then i came up to pittsburgh and i was in the locker i'm like let's go wreck them all come on od like everyone's like what if he wouldn't have had two seconds that night he would have been on fucking waivers i think orbig's like dude shut up yeah that's a veteran group man but i was with them also in camp but still it's no excuse i mean yeah but but byron

sounds like my type of guy what do you make a barrel gate did you see barrel gate going around they brought out the barrel with the candle logo on it we fired up date it pissed me off for like one second that i'm like i don't know like what am i gonna get mad you're like i have a heart to worry about i don't get worried about the fucking barrel game so what what was it like today so i've never heard of a barrel thing i never heard of like it was the best cover up by a head coach in league history it's like a canadian reporter down sorry so no but like what is it one one barrel at a time like what does that even mean the team sent an internal memo back in december and i guess there was some story i don't know if it was a legend or whatever people crossing the sahara

and i guess the when the french you know had colonized that particular part of the sahara there was all these way stations along that basically closed up so they would put a barrel a barrel every five kilometers so you know where the horizon ended and they said if you were crossing the desert all you had to do is see the next barrel to know where you had to go so each team was a barrel for the united states so obviously canada happened to be the last team so we didn't see the barrels before because they hadn't won a gold medal so they brought it out in the ice so it could have just as easily been russia on the valley and plus well the the memo that ryan ryan rishad liabilities. Ryan Rashad, the reporter. He's the one who posted the story.

It was from December 19th. So it wasn't like, you know, I doubt they had this conspiracy to call Canada trash if they won. So even if it was, you should just take it because you can do whatever you want. Yeah, it's true. It was tough, man. It's tough. Andre Tarini was my, or not my first coach, but my first two years he was our D coach here. And I was rooting for him too.

He's an unbelievable coach. So, tough loss for the boys. But we definitely didn't deserve it. You played in 2013? If you – technically I played. Oh, then you got hurt. You had one apple. No, no, no. I didn't get hurt.

You didn't get hurt? What happened? I was – I didn't play. I didn't play. Really? At the water bottle. I didn't play. Really? At the water bottle. Hidgin' Toss. Oh, my God.

Hidgin' Toss. How mad were you? Yeah, I played. I was 13 forward. Like, I just, I could, I could just never, like, I don't know. Well, actually, what happened, they just didn't trust me. I know that. Like, you know, like, the Super Series game?

Yes. Like, I, man, I was so bad the first game i turned the puck over like russians wouldn't score like i was trying to like told you i got the blue line and just doing dumb stuff and i had a good game the second game but i just think i just uh i don't know they just got turned off he's like and then i took a personal and then went on. With MJ. Now, Steve spot. I really like spot.

He was awesome to me. He was upfront with me. You know, there's no hard feelings or anything. I just definitely wish I played. I remember I played like two shifts in the bronze medal game and just tough, man. Yeah. So meat, taking meat laps. Like, yeah.

No, he's your dairy. What're dairy what are you dairy and gluten-free um yeah mostly yeah mostly definitely are you still on i remember last time we talked yeah he's been on the sweet potato train apparently you've been farting all over the locker room because just just to go back quick you know I said he was taking meat laps, like doing the laps. Yeah, I just try to coordinate the meat. Okay, fair enough. I thought you thought we were all of a sudden talking about eating a burger. Nate, we're somewhat paid to try to be funny around here, and that's like my full attempt right there.

So a fake laugh would be nice once in a while, appreciated. Got you next time, bro. All right. Nate, I want to ask you about the upcoming schedule. You guys are playing seven division rivals eight times each are you looking forward to it I want to say dreading it but are you indifferent to it I know you got to play the schedule they give you but that's pretty intense eight times each seven teams yeah it's crazy um some you're playing a team four

times in a row as well like two at home two on the road or vice versa um yeah is that how it used to be with biz like no in the jungle in the jungle dude it was you just bang out a bunch in a row and you'd play a team like 10 times but i don't remember i don't remember ever back-to-backs with one team's one thing but now when you got the four and five nights or four and six nights, I think I saw that's crazy. But, but your first couple of years or didn't you, didn't the West not really play the East? No.

Yeah. I was, yeah. I started and it wasn't like you played every team. Yeah. Twice a year, twice a year, home and home. Yeah. So, I mean, one division eight, I eight i think we have like how many teams we have seven in our division or something yeah eight teams in the division so you'll be playing

seven other teams eight times it's gonna be uh yeah by that third or fourth game hopefully it goes well you know you're getting swept in a series or whatever but i think it's just you know up to your own team to bring that focus and you know no matter who you're playing i guess to you know to bring that uh you know focus and passion or whatever to every game obviously no fans still it's going to be another obstacle but um it should be okay is i was actually just going to ask you that is uh has denver come out and said that you guys won't be a place allowing any fans yeah not at this time okay is it just texas and florida just no uh phoenix arizona's doing

3500 so it's normal game okay damn the fuck are you laughing at you're gonna get redemption baby for that for that playoff performance back to ben back to back on sportsman like games when you guys ran up the score man we didn't mean to bro we should have i wish we didn't i feel like that was bad that we yeah it would be cool power play it would be cool if they went uh reverse retro jerseys against each other this year i think those are the two best in the league that That would be cool. That would be cool. I think – I don't know when we're going to wear them, but I know we're playing in Lake Tahoe, I guess. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask.

Hopefully we wear those then. That would be cool. That would be really cool. Yeah, that's among the four games straight. You're going to be playing Vegas four straight in February and including the game at Lake Tahoe. Do you guys have any details on the rink or any of that stuff yet? You just kind of crossed that bridge when you get to it?

I think actually they're just going to build it like outdoors. That's what I'm hearing. Oh, Biz thought you were skating on the pond. No, no. I accidentally said that last pod and then went around with it. I was just – No, no. Then I said it too, and then Biz tried chirping me i was just oh no then i said it then i said it too and then biz

tried chirping me for thinking that it might happen it was a classic it was a classic moment of two dum-dums talking basically is what it is what it came down to i was gonna ask you a hockey question here so it's it's i never get an answer i said who's the guy in the league you hate the most who's the guy where you know when you're you're going to be playing against him you're like fuck i'm in for a long night and every bit of offense i try to create is is i'm going to have this guy barking down my neck yeah i think an underrated guy uh would be uh philip denno in montreal he uh i think he should i don't think it's selkie recognition or not but he should man he's he's so hard to play against. Such a good centerman, man.

He's all over me every time we play Montreal, home or away. I find it's definitely really hard to get space against him. Yeah, hopefully he wins a Selkie one day. I think he deserves it. I think he's good against everybody, not just me. That's a trade Blackhawks fans they they really regret not having him anymore that was a tough one um with your team though what's what's the vibe like with bedner i mean when you're on a really good team it's hard not to get along with the coach especially you

know being the player you are but what's his attitude like is he joking around with guys is he super serious how's that all been yeah bedsy's awesome man he's uh he's a mix like you could you could chirp bedsy like he's got like long hair now so we're all giving it to him about his hair uh he loves it though like he chirps back like he's a funny guy man he's he's but he's also serious too like when it's time to get you know down to business video if we're you know fucking off in practice whatever he he'll you know he'll give it to us but um even when we came last he was still like a good guy to have around you know he wasn't miserable every day uh he always brings a good vibe to the rink which is cool um i know every coach isn't like that um but bedsy's uh bedsy's

great man really great hockey mind as well you know just an easygoing Sasky boy, you know, he's a simple, simple dude likes to hunt and, uh, you know, he's great. Nate, you guys got even deeper in the off season. You added defenseman Devin Taves forward, Brandon Saad. You did lose Nikita Zdorov, but I mean, you guys are even probably what more confident going into this year or what, adding a couple of pieces like that, they could put you over the top. Yeah, no, definitely.

We feel great. Camp has been awesome so far. Everyone has the same goals to win. This season, I thought last year we had a chance. This year, obviously, it's a big one, man. You don't get a ton of opportunities.

My first few years, like I was saying earlier, it was tough. You know, just scraping and clawing to make the playoffs. And now, you know, the goal is to actually win. So it's a really cool position we're in. And with the guys we added with Saad and Taze, you know, there's no excuse. We can stay healthy and put our best foot forward and try to get this done.

Does a player of your stature ever get the text from the GM before a move is made? Like, does he ever give you the heads up that something's coming? No, I don't get that. Nothing? There's no – you see that James Harden stuff? Is that why you're referred? No.

Are you, like, wearing the team? Oh, okay. Oh, no, no. But that did come out recently, how he would just go on, like, benders flying, like, the day of the game. Go to ATL. Yeah. What did he do with the trades and stuff?

He would like sign off on like every trade and like who they hire as a coach. He'd have to sign off on that. It's crazy, man. These guys are like the owners. It's a different world. Yeah, these guys bring so much value you know like if lebron's on your team your team is worth like double if you know i don't know it's just in hockey like and obviously we're good players but you know we're not really yeah exactly so not that like you're like i can't get a fucking text here from Joe.

They're making 45 a year, some of them, aren't they? Yeah, man. 50 a year. Yeah, buddy. That's your whole contract. You're the best player in the league, you peasant. Yeah, man. Team friendly, baby.

Love it. Team friendly, baby. It is true. Fuck, man. Look at the Bruins. look how you guys are doing it yeah like obviously it's uh it's not you know you don't want to be the the best contract in the league that's definitely something you don't want but it's obviously cool to you know all these great players on our team wouldn't be possible if you know one of us was making 13 or 14 or something so um last time we had you on i don't think we talked about the time you were on jerry d so your acting ability and then i think after

we had you on you were in an animation series with trailer park boys yeah man yeah yeah he started with with jerry uh i was just playing for the moose heads and he's a big hockey fan so you know he asked me to bring one of the boys from the moose to come back and i think the episode was like you know you need to take school more seriously because i was in his class he's like you'll never go anywhere in hockey like i never would you never will either he's so you were playing yourself in it i was playing myself, yeah. Okay, cool. In both, in both. And the second one, I got kidnapped by Bubbles and Ricky to beat the Moncton Mudslides in a whole tour game. Those guys are awesome, man. Those guys are so funny.

Who's your favorite character on Trailer Park Boys? Probably Julian. I think Julian would be my favorite. He always has a rum and Coke in his hand. His black tea on. He's so funny. All those guys. They're all from like Coal Harbor, Nova Scotia area.

Whenever they have stand-ups in Denver, I'll go watch. They had me on the show. It was pretty cool. That's awesome. Biz just mentioned Hoops a second ago. It's funny. I had an analogy written down. Watching the playoffs this year reminded me of the old three-point contest with Larry Bird.

He shoots the last shot, and right when he lets it go, he puts the number one up because that's how confident he is. The shot's going on. That's what you reminded me of, just like peak confidence. Every shot's going to go in. Is that where you are right now in your career, and do you still feel the same confidence you had in the bubble? Yeah, I felt great, man.

I think the less travel was awesome for me. I got to, you know, rest up after every game. You play a ton of minutes. A couple more back-to-backs, though, with being there. But, you know, not just myself, the whole team, like I said, Cale was dominant, Miko, Landy, all these guys had amazing performances. And, yeah, hopefully we can carry that this season. I know we mentioned the retro jersey, too.

I know you were born after Quebec actually left, but what's your take on the new retro reverse jersey or reverse retro? I think it's awesome. That's what everybody's buying. People tag me all their Christmas. I think a ton of kids and even adults bought these jerseys. They're a hit, man. Hopefully, we can wear them more than our regular one this year.

They're so cool. I thought they were going to be like baby blue, but at first, I didn't love it, to be honest. With the Nordiques, I was just envisioning baby blue with Joe Sackick and Peter Stastny and all those guys. But they look great and pumped to wear them. I think that they are the best. But, I mean, you got to think that if they're going to come out with all those jerseys, there's going to be some tough ones. And when I saw Detroit's, we were laughing at them when we did the show. It's like a practice jersey. So you got to think that you're lucky you're seeing it oh my god it's

amazing but you guys got the one that you actually want to wear every night it's true yeah you know we're lucky man i mean some of those jerseys can be tough i've seen some thirds that actually look like practice jerseys i think the blues and like oh wait had practice jerseys full time though i don't remember those ones. I want to piggyback kind of off R.A.'s question. So, you know, you're playing the way you have been. Is there one thing in particular when you had this whole break that you wanted to like add to your game? Like what's the one thing where you're like,

I need to get better at this? Probably face-offs. Not great at them for whatever reason. I got better in the playoffs I put a little more time into them but definitely something I'd like to get better at and hopefully be around 50% this season so

that's what I'm looking for one guy oh sorry what no you go ahead I got a piggyback question off of that is Sid helping you with those no we didn't do any face-offs question off of that? Is Sid helping you with those? No, we didn't do any face-offs this offseason. That'd be crazy.

Sorry, I wasn't a centerman. Sorry about the stupid question. They do an auction to auction off who's going to come and drop the Pucks biz. Get local refs. It's a big deal in Coal Harbor. Yeah. I was going to mention one guy who wasn't on the team last time we talked, Nazem Kadri.

What element did he bring to the avalanche that maybe you guys were lacking before he got there? Have you guys had Naz on before? We have. No. Oh, man, you guys got to get Naz on. He's the man. He's a funny guy, like hilarious. And he's got some swag to him too in a great way like he brings such

a fun element to our team like you know he's uh he's not arrogant at all but you know you think he's won like five hearts and five in a great way though like he's just so confident like oh man he's such a great guy to have around the room like no matter what the circumstances Nas is the same every day um you know brings a great mood to the to the team and hopefully you guys can chop it up with him sometime he'd be great to have uh you talk about the mood and I just read a tweet before we came on they're having uh I guess it's uh unsettling times as far as who gets the aux cord in the locker room in Toronto. Who gets it with Colorado and where are they bumping mostly? Zdorov had it actually last year.

He played good tunes. He'd get these like mixes and it was good. I don't know. I don't know. It was Colin Wilson and Z. They're both gone now, so we got to figure it out. I don't know. Are you, if you could pick a top genre, are you a rap guy?

Yeah, I'm a rap guy for sure. Who are your top five guys right now? Lil Baby. I like Lil Baby. He's tight. He's tight. He is so gangster. It's unbelievable.

It's crazy. I like Drake, obviously. Who's the guy who died that's pretty legit? Is it Juice WRLD? Yeah, Juice WRLD. I really like Juice WRLD, too. He died, too. But he's dead. Yeah, he has some bangers. Yeah, he's got

some bangers, too. I like everything, man. You know who was nice? Who also, I believe, got shot was at Pop Smoke. Yeah, man. He's was that Pop Smoke. Yeah. Yeah, man. He's bringing that tone. Yeah, that mood.

He was fire. Pre-game songs were fire, man. For sure. Speaking of rap, did Lil Sid and Nate Dogg collab on a new album in the last season? Lil Kross? Lil Kross, yeah. I'm looking for Lil Kross' debut album, man. Album's called working on draws.

Just fucking figuring it all out together. My boat launch. Yeah. Oh yeah. All the profits. Hey, all the profits from those shirts are going towards all the therapy. I need it after those eight to one spankings you gave us in playoffs.

Oh man. Were you, were you in the bubble? Call games or no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no? No, no, no, no. Right. No. Not that committed to the OTA. Somebody – I would have brought fucking COVID in there for sure. The bubble would have been bursted if he was there. Oh, yeah. Sneak it out. I know, Nate, there's a lot of talk about the abs in the cup and it's a couple of busts this year. You like the pressure some guys wilt underneath it.

How do you compartmentalize that pressure so you're not constantly thinking must-win cup over and over? How do you do that? What's your mental approach there? think day by day man um obviously we're not even close to that yet we haven't won a game this season so you know every day in camp every day in the regular season we just need to build um you know and i think obviously the record matters but we just want to get better throughout the season. You know, you look at Tampa two years ago,

I think they lost like 10 games, 15 games and, you know, got swept and they came back and won the cup. And I think, you know, they realized the record, whatever, doesn't really matter in the regular season, especially in hockey. There's so much parity that, you know, we just need to get better every day. It's going to be a grind. You know, our division is a lot of big defensive teams, a lot of really good teams. So it's going to be, first of all, get into the playoffs,

and hopefully we're rolling when we get there. I got a little off hockey topic, and that's the golf game. We talk second, Sam, where you guys do want to rematch. What was the game this summer? Were you playing a lot? Was the course closed during the shutdown? What's the deal? And how's Sid's game?

My golf game's in shambles with. No, dude. Oh, no. You were money then, and you were just on that path up. Swing thoughts, man. I got to, you know, before I hit the ball, I got like seven different thoughts in my head. Because I get a lot of lessons.

Hey, double that and you got me, buddy. I know. Like Biz doing an interview. I know. I feel like there's a point where you just get too many lessons and I don't know. I got to figure it out. You're on Instagram looking at every swing tip there is on YouTube.

You got the toys, the little yeah with the string yeah in my in my house looking in the mirror my takeaway oh man so i i just gotta keep it simple but but come july or august when this season's over the boys will have to go to boston and make you guys pay for dinner this time. Game on. That was a nice dinner. You taught me the oyster trick, man. I use it all the time. So simple. When you're done with your oyster, put it face down,

and then you know there's nothing left in there. Exactly. I'm digging through with your fingers. There you go. Did you train with Marshy at all? Did he trip you up at all? No. I think Marshy stayed in Boston this offseason.

I think he had surgery. Oh, that's – you're talking about. He was rehabbing there and stuff. So missed him. Missed that guy around the rink. He's always a treat. So hopefully next summer he's back. You mentioned Colin Wilson earlier.

I reached out to him. He obviously went through some difficult times towards the end of his career. Had he ever came to you about that stuff while you were playing with him? Yeah, he was really open about the stuff he was going through um obviously uh definitely learned some things in that article um played with willie for three years and um yeah it's it was i think it was great the way he came out and spoke i think a lot of a lot of athletes, a lot of people go through those similar things. Um, and it takes courage man to come out and put it all out there. But Willie's, uh, an open guy about it. Uh, he's not ashamed at all. And,

um, you know, he, uh, he was great. I think, you know, I think he just announced his entire retirement officially, you know, he, man, this guy went through a lot of injuries, a lot of surgeries. Tough on the mental. You know, it's harder than people think to always be, you know, on the shelf battling with something. So, great for Willie, man. And, you know, hopefully he's got an unreal retirement.

He made some good monies. He's chilling for sure. So, you know, he had a great career. He was a BU guy, so i never got the chance to play with him but first time i ever met this kid biz uh i was training with a buddy of mine who was just playing in europe and it might have been friday it was like an afternoon we were just going over there to maybe like stretch or ride the bike he was an incoming freshman at bu wilson and i look at him he's got 50 pounds hanging from the the weight belt and he's literally

dummying full-arm pull-ups like he's an animal man 20 of them he was 18 i was like who is this kid sure enough he ends up being a high pick has a great career so i know he went through a ton but an awesome guy and that's good to hear that even talking to you he's he's open with all that stuff yeah he is and even a boat like his training he said he used to just to you he's he's open with all that stuff yeah he is and even about like his training he said he used to just you know he wishes he didn't do some of that i think oh he was clean in 320 and he was 15 years 16 years old hey i'm gonna be honest i i probably went way too hard when i was first starting out too squatting like four plates just like really stupid shit that ended up tightening me up long term. And what are you laughing at?

You think I'm humble bragging about squatting four plates right now? Quadzilla over here. He just laughed in your face about your like, your emotional. I lived it too much. I'm sorry, man. You owe this guy a beating. You owe this guy a beating. I already gave it to him on the fucking golf course.

I know. How do you like that one, Nate Dog? I forget that used to kill guys on the ice. I got to be more careful around you. I might make a fucking comeback. I just got to get a yoga instructor, a hands coach. You're going to do the Tour de France. Do you think Biz can do Tour de France if he trained legit from today for six more months?

Are you biking? Are you biking right now, Biz? No, I haven't hopped on yet. I actually did a stationary a couple months ago, though. I did 20 minutes. I was buzzing. Same thing. He Googled Peloton. That's about it. right now no i i haven't hopped on yet i actually did a stationary a couple months ago though i did 20 minutes i was buzzing same thing he googled peloton that's about it i think you got to get on the juice if you're gonna do the well they all are anyway fuck my join the show that's some hgh going should be good oh man nate uh g tells us you're a video game guy do you play randos or

all nhl guys how's that work? Yeah, I got both. I got both. I got a gaming community going. I play a lot of Fortnite. I just love it. I don't know why. I just love to compete. Come home from the rink and just compete on Fortnite. I'm not great, but I got these little gamer kids

that are really good. I just play with them mostly. Do they know who you are? You got the Twitch streams going though too, Nate. Yeah, I streamed a little bit man i really enjoyed streaming blasting some some of my favorite tunes and honestly like i don't love usually talking with like the media and stuff but you know it's cool to have your own platform streaming get to interact with fans directly that's why i like podcasts too. There's no like opinion, you know, you guys aren't, you guys just ripped me after, I don't know, but, um, Oh, we're definitely going to chuck a few sound bites up there.

Yeah. Oh yeah. But you know, you just kind of control the, you know, the vibe and how you want to say things. There's no really opinion about it. And I thought that was cool with streaming to just hang out, talk to fans and, you know, I liked it. It was fun. When people are playing against you, do they always know what you would do? You sometimes go anonymous.

No, my, my, what's my epic name or whatever? It's young Nate. Like, you know, it's like my rap name, young Nate. Little Vaughn. All right. Little Nate. Little Nate on Fortnite. That's unreal.

Hey, maybe if you're looking to make a few extra bucks, we could sign you to the Song Daddies. Grinnell, you have to play underneath Grinnell because he's got his own character in the EA game. I don't know if you know that. We'll take you. Is it NHL? NHL 21.

I got to get on that, man. I'm awful. Wierenski pumped me 20-nothing, dude, so it's all good. I'm pretty bad, too. I feel like you'd be awesome at that, man. You have to be better than that now. That was like right when you started playing. Oh, I'm much better now.

I'd pump Nate. Yeah, oh, yeah. He's being humble. He's being humble. Like Biz talking about his four plates. Yeah, let's go. We can go back to that. Screwed you for your career, man. Yeah, let's go. We can go back to that. Screwed you for your career, man.

Biz, I remember you were a machine. I messed you up. Yeah, and then I just think it messed me up, guys. I was getting too swole. Your hands got swollen? Hey, I kind of interrupted you, Shocker, when you were talking about the acting thing a little bit. Is that something you could see yourself maybe doing a little bit more of

post-career? I don't think little bit more of post-career? I don't think anyone would want me post-career, man. I thought you were pretty good naturally. Did you watch the Trailer Park Boys one? The first one? Like, not the cartoon? No, I didn't even know you were on Trailer Park Boys. Though that was the cartoon one.

And then I did another one before that. It was actually, I was like 220 did another one before that it was actually i was like 220 i was thick i was a thick boy then um yeah it was uh bubbles started like a hockey camp and it was like weed growing everywhere around the kids and it was pretty funny man i was like 2011 right what's up 2011 no season 11 correct yeah yeah season 11 episode 7 check it out what was uh was that or the animated one about the stanley bong the stanley bong was the animated one so i got kidnapped for help to beat the motion bug slides oh my goodness stuff man oh this is too they come up with that stuff, man.

Oh, this is too good. No, when you were on Mr. D, I thought you had some chops too. You were pretty convincing because sometimes you have athletes on and they're obviously athletes doing an acting thing, but you were pretty good in that. Okay. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm on IMDB. I got my own page going, so I could apply for my ACTRA.

So we'll see. We'll see if I need a little cash after hockey. Are you going to want an acting credit for the next sandbagger just so I know so I have to register no he wants a check biz oh okay I couldn't believe how well that video did man that was that was cool

that's posh oh you were surprised Sidney Crosby and Nathan McKinnon golfing got a lot of views I think it I think it turned out better than you guys even thought i'm sure yeah oh yeah like that was those views were grinnelli from staring at sin squads things are unbelievable we we went to the course we we thought we might get a couple holes remember biz all of a sudden we got let's tell the story. So we, you guys finally agreed to come on and get interviewed.

So our fucking cocks are rock hard. Right. So I'm like, I'm thinking with Pasha and the guys, I'm like, Hey, let's get them for a round of golf too. And, and I kept texting Sid that you could tell he was not down for this. He was not feeling it. So, but, but you guys agreed to go golfing. So I said, perfect.

I said, Pasha show up around the third hole. And we did a whole, we did an intro on hole three with the CCM stick. Yeah. I think we were just saying. That was the third hole we did that? Oh, yeah. We ambushed him. He couldn't say, no, Sid's too nice.

So I'm like, perfect. Show up hole three. So we do the intro. And I'll be honest. I didn't realize how short the course was because we moved up because it was wet and i probably shouldn't be given as many strokes i was on i was on fire in that front nine and it did look bad and and and fuck thank god you showed some emotion and snapped and called me a snap bagger because that was kind of how it all started i i it took me a

while to snap usually it's quicker than that whole nine you were like plus two plus two through nine playing at a 23 handicap it was just it was unbelievable but i think it was actually one of the biggest sandbag experience i was like i was like hit a bad one i was like hit a bad one dude they're gonna fucking snap and then you shot like a 68 on top of it that that that you played really good you played great i played good on the back and biz was sick on the front and then the fact that we just the fact that we ended it with like a birdie on 18 you bought us dinner after you gave us the interview is just perfect oh man we'll always have that memory i was felt like a 73 that day i was looking at the wine list of the restaurant on hole 11.

Oh, my God. I've been grinding for that game the whole senior year. I remember I hit a bunker shot. I hit a bunker shot. You jarred it, right? No, I hit it left. Oh, you stole it. No, I hit it left.

No, I hit a sick shot. And you go, you're dead there. That's jail. I'm like, oh, shit. And I get up there, and it kind of was. And this shot spun and stopped, and it was a tap-in. And I remember I looked over, and you're like, fuck this. Fuck this.

Just screaming. Two competitive bastards getting beat by two clowns. That was classic. Yeah, it was just real emotion, man. No acting there. so we're just gonna have to tell sid it's a round of golf in boston there's gonna be 17 cameras there when he shows up yeah it's gonna be a full yeah full studio of cameras pulling up i think sid was so into the match though that he didn't even like really notice like the camera you know what i

mean just the compete you know he started being competitive and you know it was great and i'm glad we filmed that because not just for youtube but it's cool to cool to look back at for sure well dude it's uh thanks for doing it yeah it's great to catch up with you again man this is this is it's been it seems like it was five years ago we saw you guys but what a great season you had and i think this year with your team um sky's the limit so look looking forward to watching you guys play and we appreciate you coming on yeah thanks for having me really appreciate it our pleasure nate thanks so much good luck this year keep

big thanks to nate for jumping on us again uh awesome dude easy to root for can't wait to see the abs get at it again this year. There's big news from our favorite home security company. SimpliSafe just launched their new wireless outdoor security camera. That's right. SimpliSafe, the system that U.S. News and World Report named the best home security system of 2021, just got even better. This brand new outdoor security camera is engineered with all the advanced tech and security features you want and need to keep you and your family safe.

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visit simplisafe.com slash chicklets. What's more, SimpliSafe is celebrating this new camera by offering 20% off your entire new system in your first month of monitoring service free when you enroll in interactive monitoring. Again, that's simplisafe.com slash chicklets. Okay, next up for you, we have a coach. It's been a couple of minutes since we had a coach on, and they don't come much better than John Cooper, man.

Awesome guy. I had the pleasure of meeting back in December last year, and we hit it off, and he's become a bit of a fan of the show, and the fact that we were able to get him right after the Stanley Cup was a thrill as well. Fan of the show already? I think he's more of a fan of you. Yeah, maybe I'm being a little humble here,

but yeah, he's become a little bit of a pal. I talked to him a couple weeks ago. He gave me a late night call from the Gaza route in Idaho, wherever they are. So yeah, Coop's a good man, great interviewer. He had some fantastic insight, and he gave us over an hour after winning the Stanley Cup, so

it was a thrill to talk to him. Hopefully you enjoyed it then, and hopefully you enjoy it again right now. John Cooper. Well, we're very excited to bring on our next guest. In his first eight full seasons as an NHL head coach, he's made the playoffs seven times and went to three Stanley Cup finals. And all Wednesday night, his Tampa Bay Lightning won their second straight Stanley Cup,

and he became just the second coach to win back-to-back titles in the salary cap era thanks a ton for jumping on with us John Cooper congrats on number two Coop thanks guys it's a hell of a ride with a super awesome group of guys I mean it's potty time in the gulf right now is it any different than last year or is it no difference because it's Florida oh no it's different it's well last year when we had no difference because it's florida oh no it's different it's well last year when we had the boat parade it was almost october now we're like mid-july and the heat is beaming down so it should be uh should be a good one tomorrow but it's uh it'll be hot out there coop you and ra go way back huh you guys are buddies trying to get in touch right after you raise the cup for the second year in a row? Well, R.A. snuck into our cup party last year. I was like, boom.

He lives in Boston, yet he's at a cup party in Tampa during a pandemic. So that was interesting. But he was – no, R.A. was awesome. The stories he was telling, like the energy he has. I could just throw him right on the gourd line. He'd fit right in there. I'll tell you what. I was shocked to get the FaceTime the night you guys won the Stanley Cup.

And the first day, I see John Cooper pop up. And I'm like, oh my God, he's calling me. This is unbelievable. I answer, and your first question is, where's R.A.? He's not answering my FaceTimes. I'm like, yeah, Cooper. I'm not with him. He just hangs up his.

So I got to see you and Big Rig rig and then later on i get a facetime from big rig and then i i'm getting bullied by kucherov who who i guess i mean a lot of people have been victim of kucherov lately since he's been on this run just uh you know post stanley cup yeah the uh so derek lond who's on our staff uh who I've known a long time, I guess he went to school with R.A. So I get in-depth coverage of their past. And if R.A.'s anything like Derek, it was probably quite a bit of fun. Yeah, me and Newsy go way back. I think it was his very first coaching job at North Adams State.

I was, of course, 24, so I was only a sophomore or whatever I was at the time. But I hadn't seen him in probably 20 years until we reconnected over last season. So yeah, it was great. Thanks. And by the way, I didn't sneak in. I did get an invite to that one. Oh, I know you did. I know you did. I'm just giving you a hard time. It was fun, though. I'm so glad you came. Yeah, it was a blast. Game 7 just Wednesday night.

A 1-0 nail-biter. We're going to get into your career, Charlie, but I just want to ask about Game 7 first. Did you get nervous at all? Game 7? It? Game seven already? That was against the Islanders. The guys in Columbia fucking hopped up on God knows what interview and a cup champ coach. You know what I meant.

Last game of the series. Let's be honest. I'd be sitting here BSing you if I said you don't get nervous. I think I'm not as probably nervous as I was maybe in the 2015 final as you are in the 2021. But there's butterflies. If I didn't have them, I'd be pissed at myself. Then I'd be like, something's wrong then.

So it's weird because I was probably more like feeling that weird feeling in game five than I was in game four. And then we ended up losing game four so um it was you just you live for these moments and I always try to enjoy them because I sit here and I look around and be like holy cow this is you know in these stressful situations but I always try and keep myself like not outwardly showing it because I I do think a team can take a little bit of the personality of the coach so if you're wigging out and you're wigging out the refs like the players will start doing it now you're out of control so it's probably why I chew gum so hard all the time

but it's like I try and keep it inside but for sure butterflies were going and then you just know like those last couple minutes and you're looking up and you're going oh my god we're so close like just get this across the finish line and the boys uh well when I saw Barkley Goudreau block that shot from Shea Weber I'm like all right we we got this your interview right after you said that was like the the entire team you just have to look at that one play and even at home watching it's like and if he didn't get it there was probably another guy behind him that's the one thing about your team and it's just everyone buys in it was a joy to watch so like like I already said I mean congrats and biz go ahead buddy well you said the team takes on the personality of the coach and

I know you're good friends with Charles Barkley and I think after game one of the final I read that he texted you he said three more to go coach and you said no one more to go because that's kind of the mentality you have is where you don't want to get too ahead of your skis. You're one game at a time. Yeah. He, he's been awesome ever since we met a few years ago and, and become a big fan and a friend. And so, yeah, after we won game one, he sends a text and says, Hey, three more to go. And I said, no, it's one more to go. We just need to do it three more times.

And so he kind of kind of ran with that. I think he might have ran with it in the TNT broadcast for basketball, but he's a special human being, that guy, and glad he's a fan. He probably said, fuck you Coop, like in the real sense. He might have.

Shut up, bitch. There's probably a better chance of that. Well, Coop, obviously we want to talk about this cup team and even last year's and your time with the lightning but i'm just as much if not more intrigued about how you came to be a head coach in in your past and i guess we'll all start off like let's go all the way back to the beginning you were born in prince george british columbia and you're a big lacrosse player were you as crazy about hockey when you were growing up

as you were about lacrosse, or was it not really? Oh, yeah. Hockey was the first love. Like, you know, Hockey Night in Canada way back then was just one night, or one game on a Saturday night. It started at 5 o'clock, 8 o'clock Eastern. It was 5 for us, and I'd go emulate. I was, Bobby Orr was my first memory of a player and I just loved the Boston Bruins and so I'd go downstairs and have tournaments by myself shooting pucks into

my mom's uh and dad's dryer and uh and you know Boston would always win because I always made sure they won and but Bobby Orr was my was just my guy and I fell in love with hockey and um and so that was that you know that was the winter sport and in the summer I'd play lacrosse and be a big believer and just playing all sorts of sports and so I ended up playing junior a lacrosse in in the lower mainland hockey though I went to actually I went right there to Notre Dame in Wilcox Saskatchewan I had some questions about there actually. And so I went there, I made, no, I made all the rep teams in my, in my,

in Prince George and played in all the top teams. And then I went there and I was like, Oh, wow. I'm not as good as I thought I was. It was, you know, when you're lining up beside Wendell Clark at a trial, it's not probably going to go that well for you. And so I, it was tough because I didn't make the, up beside Wendell Clark at a trial it's not probably going to go uh that well for you and so I it was tough because I didn't make the I didn't make the big team uh any of the years I was there and it was that was like the first time of like okay this is what adversity is and I stayed at

the school I loved it it was a phenomenal experience kind of you know it's where I kind of went in as a boy kimono man and uh but it was learning experience that you know you're going to fail at some things and and you know what's your path to success and I look back at some of the times when I didn't have success and maybe it channeled me the right way to find my way into spit and chiclets hey yeah so did you go there on a full ride did you go there on a full ride to go to school like was it a scholarship situation or did your parents just send you off to school there yeah they wanted me to go they wanted me to move on and branch out it's it's different today i was 15 years old when i left home and it was nerve-wracking i'll never forget when my parents pulled away from wilcox saskatchewan not sure sure if you've ever been there, but I don't even know if there was a stoplight there when I first went.

And, but it was, it's a special place. And it was, you just, you got to grow. You got to, there's, you're on your own at 15 and you got to find a way to make it work. And, you know, I eventually did, but it wasn't, you know, through hockey, but it never, ever took away my love for hockey and you know I always said to myself like god I'd love to have my name etched on the Stanley Cup I just didn't know how I was going to do it and it's uh it's funny how it turned out what I can do as a player you uh before we get to Hofstra where you ended up

playing lacrosse I'm interested about Notre Dame because I consider it and tell me if I'm wrong it's kind of like Shattuck St. Mary's right like didn't look caviar and Brad Richards play there oh my gosh yeah there's a laundry list of guys yeah it's crazy like Kobe Braden Colburn um God McElhinney our our um our backup like it's you never it's so many guys I don't even know how many to go there. But it's a hockey factory, and they have a huge passion for it. But you're absolutely right. It's probably comparable to Shattuck as, like, the top school. I do think prep schools and stuff are getting bigger in Canada now, and people are going that route.

But it's a great place. And I think, you know, the Canadians usually end up in Notre Dame and the Americans end up in Shattuck, unless you're Sid. And then he just picked where he wanted to go. Then you just do whatever you learn how to shoot pucks into the, in the dryer. I noticed he said that he probably picked that up from you. Coop. He could thank you for all those goals. He scored.

Oh, that I, my mom never got rid of that dryer either it was like she had like 40 years just said that oh it was a mess because i was such a bad shot i couldn't get it in the dryer what what what brought you to hofstra did you get a 100 yeah% lacrosse. I ended up playing in the Canada Games for – I actually played for Saskatchewan. It was my first, like, touch with field lacrosse because I was a box lacrosse player. And so I was recruited by one coach, and then he left the year I committed to come in. And John Donowski, who's now, like, the winningest coach in college lacrosse, he's at Duke now. He became his coach. Now we didn't know each other and I was on like a limited limited you know financial aid by them um but I ended up making the team uh they honored everything and and it was uh it was a crazy experience because the team was in transition and when the coach

took over and we kind of took off and we had some really really good years there uh i loved it i loved playing lacrosse but it was different because i couldn't understand so i don't know if you're familiar with box across but the goalies are like huge and it's like the net's like four by four and then when you went to field across the goalies have no pads which is asinine i don't know they're crazy guys and the net's like six or seven whatever how big the net is and so scoring kind of came natural to me and i was like the guys would be like how do you just how do you score and i'm like how do you not there's nobody in the net soccer net yeah so i just started twitching i had pretty good pretty good practice playing field lacrosse, but I had to learn to play with my other hand

because we would just throw behind the back. So I was a righty, and then if I wanted to go the other side, I threw it behind the back, and all the American players could play both hands. So that was tough for me. I had to train myself to play both hands because the American kids, shit, they were really good. It's ironic that you went to Hofstra on Long Island,

considering the way the last two years have gone. So you graduate. Your job prospects have nothing to do with coaching. Coaching's not even on your radar. Now, is it true you worked on Wall Street for a while? Were you a budding good and gecko? I don't know about that. I worked at Prudential Securities.

I was in the mutual fund department when I was a really big area. I worked down a water street. And then eventually I moved to their law department because I wanted to go to law school. And my initial entry of getting back into hockey is I was going to become an agent. And so I did some. So there were some guys at Newport Sports, Mark Guy, Guy Pat Morris a group of guys that I got to to know and then Wade Arnott to it's a whole nother story how he helped me out but I worked with those guys a little bit became really good buds with Pat Morris they were kind of grew me

along but it just wasn't my I just started getting into coaching then, and I just loved the team aspect of it. I didn't want to be on the other side. I couldn't see myself representing multiple players on one team and then a different team. So I went the coaching path. What's tough now also for the agents, even though, admit, you have to go after these kids at 14, 15. It makes it just so difficult chasing them.

Yeah, and so that's why i left new york i ended up going to law school thomas cooley law school it was in lansing michigan and i became actually ended up the mission i could say it now because they're all older but i was uh i was like trying to you know become an attorney and i started representing all the michigan state players and uh oh like so i'd get them out of the trouble they would you know what those college tickets you get and uh just a great great group of guys and so adam hall lives down here he was uh he was there during that time it was like john michael lyles and andrew hutchinson and brian miller they had a huge group of guys west mccauley was there and uh so we laugh about

it now some of the trouble I got these guys out of great guys well you were playing with the legal Eagles rec hockey team correct and that's kind of how you got back into the swing and things yeah so so a judge when I just got out I needed a job like I just passed the bar I was all excited but i needed a job and so i was playing with the cooley law school team it's kind of running it and pat murray played in the league a little bit i don't know if you guys remember him he's an awesome awesome guy played for the flyers like 25 games his brother's rem murray uh and they we became buds and he asked as he said basically the short story is hey i'll coach your kids high school team if you make me a coin pointed attorney that's basically the kind of deal that went on judge may tell a little

different but it's uh and so we did that and then but he brought me on to their legal eagles was an all lawyer team in the city and so i was like the first law student to come on their team and and we had a blast then they brought like we just had a blast with that group but as uh yeah that's how the whole thing got started busy strong-armed to judge this guy's made it to the top i don't know about that so you get back into coaching and you're coaching that team and are you right away feeling like the passion and just like love for doing this it was like i probably say that was the most fun i had in my early in my career was coaching these high school kids and i've said it before like no offense that you know because half of them probably gonna listen to this but you know they they weren't sitting there saying they were having

a career in hockey that was that was the one thing and but we had so much fun with that group it was uh and the judge was great but that was the year maple leaf gardens um closed and so we took the kids in a bus and we rented out maple leaf gardens so we drove from lansing michigan to toronto stayed three days played a couple high school teams and then got to uh got to play an exhibition game against ourselves at maple leaf gardens it was one of the biggest thrills I ever had. And, you know, trying to shoot pucks and see if we could lob them over and get them into Harold Ballard's box. Couldn't do that. But it was a blast. I found the Hockey Night in Canada studios.

And my brother and I took a picture in Don and Ron's chairs. And just a wonderful experience. But that team, we ended up winning the regionals. And we lost in the state quarterfinals, which they've never been there before. And we had so much fun with that group and I just kept getting, Oh my God. Somebody. Our popular man.

Yeah. Sorry. So, so we took, you know, I just had this passion for it. And then somebody asked me to coach. It was the one time I was a part-time assistant because I was working too much. I couldn't stay in coaching. And then Kelly Miller was coaching the team. And he went to the NHL. And I'm like, Coop, can you stay on with us? I did.

And then the bug started hitting. And I took over a Junior B team called the Metro Jets. And we ended up winning the national championship. And I think that was the part where I was like, I love this. And the winning is so addicting. I want to keep doing it. I just love these teams. And that's where I was kind of trying to build this recipe in my head of how to win.

And then the next year, I went to Honey B baked uh midget triple a and coached you know some big time players that ended up playing in the nhl nathan gerby was on that team and eric condra and and then uh then along came shelly kelly chase because he was getting into back into hockey owning a junior team in the north american league and And we were buddies. I, I knew him from way back and, and he said, Hey, come coach my team. And at that point it had to bug so bad. I was like, you know what? I want to give this a shot. I want to GM it. I want to do sales. I want to coach it. I want to do the whole thing. And we went down to a place called Texarkana, Texas,

and started a junior tier two hockey team and all the rest is history after that. So when you go, when you decide to take that job I mean that's when it's full in like you're done being the lawyer and and did part of that was it easier because you said I can always go back and do that and I have to give this a shot 100 I think I think my dad looked at me cross-eyed when I told him what I was doing and my mom was high-fiving me. So it was a crazy time. But I was in my early 30s. And I'll be honest, I don't know.

Like, I hate saying this, but I'm not that guy that's looking five, six years ahead. I'm looking the year ahead. And I think that's what I loved about hockey because each season was different. And I just love that feeling of like, all right, here's this 23 different human beings. How can I take them and make them one in six months? And that was my belief, like just very culture based. And so I learned that along the way and you get the right players in. And so I learned that along the way and you get the right players in.

I don't think I had a captain on my team that was ever a leading scorer on our team. Just character soothing through and I loved it. I just I couldn't get enough and the competition. And then I was fortunate to win a little bit along the way. And so it probably helped my career out. Did you surprise yourself at all at how much you had a knack for this and how quickly you were climbing the ladder? I don't want to sit here and say surprise myself. But I never thought of it that way.

I just thought, okay, here's the league I'm in. Let's go have some fun. But let's build something and try and win. I'm like, what's the point of doing this if you're not going to try and and win and and but it was fun putting the pieces together like I love the general manager part I was always a coach and GM and I I love that part of of just trying to build something from scratch and and the big the big thing is if I can give anybody advice out there you need to surround yourself with good people like you have to do that and you have to stay stick to your

beliefs you can't do things that are going to you know please somebody else like you have to stick to your core values but big thing for me is surround yourself with good peeps man and and you got a good chance for things to work out and i've been fortunate along the way like even when i went to green bay in the ushl that group of people that own that team there and manage it are phenomenal human beings like in the north american league was chaser and holly and mike brooks and tony sanson these guys phenomenal human beings and then i run into like the rock stars of steveman, Julian Brisebois, Jeff Vinnick. It's been a ride, but it's all because I've been surrounded with phenomenal people.

Well, when you were with the St. Louis Bandits, that's when you first met Pat Maroon, right? He was on that team. Was that Kelly Chase who made that introduction and how you ended up there? It was. He's a St louis kid we were in texarkana at the time he was 16 years old he's like coop i got this guy for you i'm like okay chaser i've heard that you know but he was right like chaser was right a lot of the time and he uh he he says i'm gonna sign him to a tender i couldn't go see him play so i'm like all right

i trust you and so he came to texarkana at 16 years old and we started we started this uh because he was a big boy you know he hadn't grown into himself yet so we started uh he was in high school we started this group called the chub club named after pat maroon at 6 a.m in the morning so before high school he'd have to go in the Chubb Club and drop weight. And so it was bad because the guys called him Fat Pat. And I still to my day, like I didn't call him Fat Pat F-A-T. I called him Fat Pat P-H-A-T because he had the sickest hand. So I always had that in my phone as his number. And then after a year and a half, the boys started calling him Slim

because he dropped so much weight. And then when he did that in our second year, so we won our second year so we wanted um our second year in st louis that was the first time we won the championship and penny patty had 95 points he was by far had turned himself into the best player in the league and and uh that was i think london came calling after we won that and then actually london calling speaking of that the game so uh also you go to green bay you mentioned that and then actually i was in london calling speaking of that the game so uh also you go to green bay you mentioned that and you get your title there now i saw looking through that roster

anders lee was on that team huh was that is that a person you're thinking oh this kid has a legit chance of playing in the nhl so i was probably excuse me a little naive to the nhl at the time i never thought that was going to be coaching path for me. I actually thought I was going to go to college. So I'd looked at more guys as like college players. We're always trying to get guys scholarships that year that year, that green Bay year, every single player went D one. It was like, that was our proud moments. Like everybody's let's get them to college. And so Anders came to us and it was our call to the Clark cup

winning year. And we ended ended up he was a stud and if you score 30 plus goals in the ushl you got a chance i don't care like it now it's up to you you got the skill to do it but what a human being i remember as uh sorry if i keep rambling on but things oh we love this shit he was a state all-state quarterback and so but he'd never tell anybody we kind of knew like there's a staff or whatever but he'd never throw football so anyway we were in minnesota somewhere our bus got i don't know we pulled over to eat or something like that one of the boys had a football and he's like come on anderson let's just toss it around so he's like okay sure so he says i'm going you know they say i'm going deep. And he went, and then Anders was like, we'll go deep.

And he was already like so far down. I'm like, what? He goes, just keep going. And then he chucked it. And I was like, the whole team just sat in silence. Like it was so damn far. And holy shit. Sorry, boys.

And so we're like, oh, wow, this kid's an athlete and he drew was a phenomenal athlete but i'll give you a quick story we get to the finals make it all the way the finals it's best of five we're playing uh fargo and we drop game one at home and the goalie uh whips his glove off in the air up in the air and shoots it because he scored a goal from the net he's going he scored the empty net of the goalie whizzed up his glove and shot it, have an unbelievable picture of it. I blow it up. Okay. So I don't think much, but now we get into game two, we lose that one. So now we're down. Oh, two going to Fargo. And we're like the top team.

And so I blow that picture up, stick it on the door. And I'm like, this is the guy that we're going to let us beat him. Now the kid's probably a super human being, but that's what I used this as like motivation. It was the sickest picture too. Like he's got the stick and the glove. Anyway, we go to game three and we're down three, two with 30 seconds left and they got the cameras going.

I'm like, I cannot believe we're going to get swept. Pull the goalie and guess who scores with 30 seconds left? Anders Lee. And it was just big time player. And we ended up going to triple overtime and we won in triple overtime, won the next game, went home to Green Bay, won the next one and won the championship. And it was, but Anders Lee was the guy.

And so funny thing was he was drafted. Anders Lee was the guy. And so funny thing was he was drafted. When he was drafted, he kept his whole, what's that law? The rule. Like if you are there four years and you can opt out or whatever. But he was going to, yeah, he could have not been, he wouldn't have to sign with the Islanders.

He had to wait until August and he could have been an unrestricted free agent. And I remember thinking, oh man, we might have a a chance here because i had a really good relationship with anders and uh but he he was like no i'm gonna sign with the islanders you know what they were the team that drafted me this is why he's money and i was like good for you because he's like coop i'd come and play for you you know that anytime anywhere but i feel loyal because they took a chance and drafted me i'm gonna sign with the islanders and i was like good on you kid uh and i he deserves everything he has received except for that torn knee which is awful so i've heard a few stories about you trying to motivate guys through special ways you just mentioned blowing up that picture now there's another story of when you're with the green bay gamblers about a practice situation where maybe

the guy showed up to the rink andlers about a practice situation where maybe the guy showed up to the rink and there was a note or something left where you ended up having having them meet up at a park with you could you go through that story and you know why you did that so this is good this is actually a good story and uh so basically we had a really good team that was that year the year we won it and but we were like seven and six or something and we just went and played the u.s program and we played the young team and lost and i was beside myself i haven't tossed anything in a room and i tossed the table that day uh and that's you know in junior all that tape and the gum and everything's on one

table that's all you have and so I was like that was a that was a tough one I was like what are we going to do like how are we going to find a way so we bust back and we ended up going to this establishment as coaching staff to air things out if you know what I mean and as we kept going I was like I'm sick like we're showing up we're giving our all as a coaching staff we don't feel like the guys are and so I called a 6 a.m meeting on a football field that night or the next day because it was a I think it was a Sunday afternoon game so we got home early and these kids got high school and stuff like that and we were going to talk to them and run them and all this well as our night got a little longer I'm like why the hell are we going at 6 a.m so i wrote on a note and it said this is what it feels like when you show up or

no when we show up and you guys don't i hope you know basically i hope you don't waste this season or something like that and i put a stake in it at the 50 yard line so all the boys show up at 6 a.m I'll probably ticked off and the whole deal and everybody's on the field and they're like where are the coaching staff and it's like 6 20 6 30 and finally somebody goes what's that it's at center 50 what a 50 yard line and they went and read the note and then I guess they had this coming to Jesus meeting and anyway so nobody talked about it not even that next day when we had practice nothing was talked about they never mentioned hey Coop that was a dicky move nobody talked about it until game five of the finals when the whole car cup was on the line and the captain brought it out and put it on the logo wow and said remember this day and we ended up winning that that car cup that's unbelievable yeah that's good shit that that that

shows uh a lot of thought goes into what the players and the coaches and the players are doing it's that's pretty cool that next year that next year you how did it go about that summer where you interviewed with eiserman and like how did it all about that summer? Were you interviewed with Iserman? And how did it all become where I might actually do this professionally? So now the success has kind of built my career a little bit. I'm getting a little bit of a name. But Vinik takes over, buys the team in May. And so then he hires Iserman. And then Isman hired Guy Boucher to be the coach.

And then by the time it's August, he hires Julian Brisebois. And now Julian's going to run the American League team, doesn't have a coach. We try and find a coach in mid-August. It's trouble. So Wade Arnott, who worked for Newport at the time, I guess Julian was doing a contractor with them and he's like hey do you know any coaches out there and Wade was like you should go check out this guy in Green Bay just give him an interview and uh I don't think Julian knew like Green Bay like you know one league or whatever and like USHL and so he called and I wasn't gonna go I wasn't

gonna take it uh the interview because I was happy where I was I'm like I'm not moving but it's all that you know he said you don't go burn a bridge just go hey it's like worst case scenario you get to meet Steve Eisenman it's like you know what damn right I get to go meet Steve Eisenman so they fly me down like first class which I don't think I've even flown first class before we go down there put me up in this like super nice room like bigger than any apartment I've ever lived in so go downstairs to meet steve and there i'm sitting outside his office you know like knees bumping a bit and i see his uh i see his name like i'm gonna i'm gonna meet steve eiserman you know i've got his i got his rookie card at home and i went in there and i was expecting like this like oh i am steve eiserman and he was like

the nicest human being it was like my oh shit moment i'm like holy shit i'm meeting this steve eiserman and he'll kill me for saying this but i was like a little bit taller than him so i felt good about that in height wise but he was like way taller than me and like aura size. And the interview was, it went like three hours. And I didn't feel like a minute. And it just, you know, I just kind of had a vibe. And then my wife, when I flew home after, she goes, hey, how'd that go? And I said, well, I probably won't get the job because I don't know who the hell I am. But I know I made it tough on him.

And the next day, the phone rings and they offered me the job in Norfolk. It was crazy. So that's one of those things where you're – because of your lack of professional experience coaching, you're thinking no chance, but leaving, you said to yourself, I crushed that. Yeah, in a way. In a way.

Like, I felt good about it. It's a great feeling. Like, the, but like, put it this way. There's a funny, like there's some, I've done some funny commercials out promoting and stuff for things. And at the end of the interview, they played it. They said, okay, the interview is completely done. And then they said, Oh, do you think you're really like the most interesting man in hockey or something? I did this, I kind of mock this funny commercial and I,

like, I don't think they would have done that had they not been happy with the interview. So, but I didn't think I was getting it. No way. I was like, there's just too many good coaches out there.

And no, but Julian and Steve took a chance on me and, oh man, am I grateful they did. Well, then you stepped into Norfolk right away and there's a couple of players that obviously made impact for you in the two Stanley Cups. You've won in Tyler Johnson, Andre Palat, and also Kalorn was there at the time. And I think that you guys ended up setting an AHL record one of the years you were there

for most consecutive wins in the AHL with like 33 or something. Yeah, 28, but who's counting? I'll put a little salt and pepper on the steak for you for fuck's sakes help me out here no the uh I was so naive about pro hockey like the recipe to success and building teams like it honestly hasn't changed from high school to the NHL and but it was like I was naive to stuff like i had no idea what per diem was like i was like oh my god you get an envelope we get on the bus like this is like the best and i'm like do i get taxed on this you know like and then uh and then i would have i would like first do the calendar and stuff like that and practices at like two 30 in the afternoon. And the boys come in and like,

one of the equipment guys, J-Dub was now in Vegas. He's like, Hey, we're pro we practice at like 10 30 or 11. And I was like, Oh yeah, I guess there's no high school kids. You know, like I just didn't like, Oh, this is their actual job. They don't do other things. Like just little things like that, that go through your head. And like, Oh God, this, I don't know how this is going to go, but you know, like I had the on ice and everything figured out. It was the other stuff,

but our second year Norfolk was a special team. I always say like, if that team, you know, if they didn't beat you, they could beat you up. They could beat you any other, any way you want it. And we went on this magical run that started Superbowl Sunday. We lost in Springfield and kind of had a little another coming of age moment with the team i wouldn't let them get out of their equipment we sat and watched the third period in their full equipment on the road and then we went to a planned super bowl party we had and it was you know just little things like you push your buttons, these players.

Tyler Johnson was a man on a mission. And we played 28 straight games to finish the year, and we never lost. And we didn't lose our first – we didn't go to overtime until like – I think we went to overtime in game three, and then not again until like game 20-something. So there was a stretch of 20 games. We just wanted regulation. And you guys know how hard it is like to win.

And you've got guys coming from the East Coast League, the NHL teams pulling guys up. And it was that, that team was special. And then we went to the playoffs and we went, we had a scary gate. And Kaloran came to the team halfway through. And that's when i kind of knew he'd be a player because he stepped into an all-world american league team and i he was on the

top he was a top six after three games but he got the winning goal against manchester to win that series and then we played connecticut and won that series and in six and then we went sweep sweep so we won our last 10 playoff games in a row and we won in toronto and it was uh so it was like 43 or 46 to win so it was a that that probably launched my nhl career probably put me on a few radars but that was it was that was all that team they were just a gritty that was a hell of a team uh i'm looking at that team right now and cory conacher leads the team in scoring that year and and you haven't been to the nhl yet obviously like you must have been like how is this kid not

getting called up no like how do you get called up around here is that not weird as an ahl coach when a guy's deserved to get the call but he hasn't had it yet yeah like now that i've been in the nhl i understand why I understand contracts. And there's so, but that's what you need to have like teams that believe in team first and not me first. And so, and you know, as your coach, you know, you're trying to just to balance everything that's going on here. And you're not as you understand what's going on in the American league,

but that's kind of the general manager job to figure out when these guys can come up. And I heard the line, I'm sure you guys, you've never seen a player be left too long in the American League. It's like if the guys are getting called up quick. And I think the team in Tampa was probably a little in transition. Plus, at the time in 2011, the year before, they'd gone to the conference final. They lost to Boston 1-0, I think, in the conference finals to get the Stanley Cup.

And so I think they had something going, and then it didn't go well the next year. And they're like, well, we're going to bring the young guys up in this situation. Not sure. Let's leave them down there. They've got a good thing going. And then next year, that's when Conacher came up. And I think he was up for R of the year for for quite a while he was having such a good year but i i think they saw what was going down in the american league and they didn't want to pull them out of that and i thank them for that but it was uh those guys really they didn't get rushed up and i think that's why it's paid dividends today of uh you know especially for johnson platt color

and gudas, that whole crew. Coop, you didn't even have to do an assistant gig before your NHL gig. Most guys have to do that. How did you manage to skip that? Because I stayed in the same organization. I think that was probably the big thing for me.

It was that year. I coached two years and to be honest, i interviewed for a few teams after that magical year we had an american league so i interviewed with a couple teams and got deep interviews like three interviews and quick story i won't tell you the teams but it would the draft was in pittsburgh and you know you stay at the i think the fairmont is the hotel in pittsburgh and i was in room like 511. And they were like, okay, you know, going for the final interview,

we'll send you the hotel and room number, whatever. And so I get the text, and they're in 512. They walked out of my room and walked right into theirs and did the interview. It was hilarious the double a the splitting doors just open up your splitting door I'm like holy shit I hope they couldn't hear me through the walls I was probably rehearsing stuff but um but anyway the biggest thing for me was I didn't get any of the jobs in the NHL and it was the best thing for me

because I wasn't ready to go and and for somebody that didn't play in the league and you want to get your crack, you're taking anything that comes because you never know when you're going to get it. I was just extremely fortunate. It opened up at Tampa. It sucks because somebody gets let go because of that, so it's always tough. But I needed that third year.

The team moved to Syracuse, and I coached 68 games. I got pulled out at the end because it was the lockout year. And so I coached like the last 14 or 15 games, but it was so good for me. And I wanted to see through to see if we could win back to back Calder Cups. But Steve said, I need you to come up. I want you to get a read of the players.

I need, you need to get your feet wet in the NHL. So like, you know, when you get off a bus, you don't, we're not waiting at the back of the line for the players to go. So you know how to get to the locker room. I need you to learn all that stuff. And, and so, I mean, that's what the true story is to do that. And so then anyway, so it was a learning experience for me. And when I came in my first year in 2013, 14, I was so much more prepared and, and glad that I was fortunate enough to get the job. With some, you look back to your early days that you cringe now and you think of, oh man, I can't believe I used to do that.

There's a long list of that. Celebrate goals in the legal Eagles men's league team. Actually, I'll tell you like you go back and i guess because you get older and a little grayer and stuff like that but i've you know what recently we've won and we've obviously been in the press and stuff so people like throw old interviews of you hey this was john cooper in green bay this was john cooper here and i'm like oh my gosh was i wore that And I thought it was cool. So, you know, it's a funny things like that, but I, it's been, I've been blessed. It,

it's been a phenomenal ride and I hope it's nowhere near done. But like to just be in the game of hockey, like it's the best people in the world, you know, from the players, the coaches the culture um to the code to everything i can't get enough of it like you know spending time with you guys knowing like everybody's got a different path to where we are right now it's uh it's awesome it's awesome tell the stories and just be a part of it well there's there's always that transition phase and you get your feet wet in the nhl then all of a sudden you guys start acquiring all these amazing pieces, right?

And then, you know, looking back to three years ago when you guys had that 62 win season, then you guys end up getting swept in the first round. Was that probably the lowest point in your career, at least the way you felt based on expectations? Because you've been winning so much in all the past and all of a sudden sudden that that happens and really what was that whole experience like and then even in the offseason like it was it was embarrassing that's what it was like you you have this team I'm taking a picture with Scotty Bowman in my locker room because we're the only two coaches to ever ever um win 60 plus games in a season like we're the only two and six days later we're out like six days we couldn't even make it a week and i you talk about getting punched in the face from everybody at the media the and and i was just thankful because, you know, I talked to some coaches later and they were like, oh, man, if that happened to me in my market, I wouldn't be around anymore.

And I remember Pete DeBoer gave me a, I'll never forget this, at the draft. And I didn't want to, I didn't go, I went to the draft. I didn't go on the floor like i normally did i showed up for we were like pick 28 or whatever it was and i showed up like two picks before went up on the stage and then left you know because it was hard it was just hard being around pete deborah was awesome he pulled me aside he said coop don't change anything you know what you had a bad week it doesn't say you had a bad year stick with it and always that always stuck in my head and so we made only like minor tweaks to how we did things but it was a

growing up stage for us like i look at kucherov and you know to me like you throw four players names in a hat for for best players of our generational players his names in that hat like that's how talented he is and but we all had to grow like I had to grow as a coach I wasn't as good enough coach and you know he had to grow like mentally to overcome like some adversity things like we had all the skill and all the talent uh and I like I always say like Cooch is one of the biggest reasons we won because like he got suspended he got kicked kicked out of a game against Columbus and then we missed a game. And I think that hurt him personally. Like he knew he had to be better.

I knew I had to be better. All the guys knew they had to be better. And we took it personally. And then the boys went to Sweden that year in November and we were kind of weren't where we were supposed to be at. And the boys had a really bonding experience there and we kind kind of weren't where we were supposed to be at and and the boys had a really bonding experience there we kind of took off but I thought one of the biggest keys is what Julian did when when we were you know like everybody at the trade deadline what are they looking for oh they're looking for a top 4d top 6 forward like looking for this we were the opposite

we were looking for bottom six forwards character grit we've got we've got all those other pieces we need the guys to push us over the finish line because we've we showed we couldn't get there we were lacking that and when he went out and got you know goody and and colesie and then you know signed zach bagosian falls into our lap like right at the deadline goes and gets maroon for for you know like sending first round picks that takes a lot of you know cojones to do that and we believed it we believe this is what we needed and the guys make you know made us look really good I just want to hop in here quick you said in other like coaches we said in other markets if that would have happened to them they probably wouldn't have a job was there a conversation right away where the where the team

ownership gm they said listen erase it from your memory you're still our guy or were you in limbo not knowing what was going to happen so part of it too like i was uh in that 62 win year i didn't have a contract and julian signed me to an extension like at the end of March, like right before the playoffs. And so they'd made a commitment to me. Yes. But, but yeah, I didn't want, like it was, like I said, like going out like that, it was such a humbling, humbling experience.

And I know what it's like to be at the like depths of despair. And I know what it's like to be at the top of the. And I know what it's like to be at the top of the mountain. But sometimes you have to go down there to get up there. But the conversation, the owner was awesome. The general manager was awesome. He said, don't worry, we got this. We will, you know, what pieces do you need? What are you thinking?

I'll tell you what we're thinking. We meshed together and we went with it and i i gave them my plan of what i was going to do and they were on board and i was on board with them and i said we just we will do this together and they owned up to their end of the bargain and i guess we owned up to ours and one guy i got to talk about he he didn't come in you know the year you got it done um with the bubble. But Ryan McDonough comes in halfway through 17-18 season and not at all trying to get you to badmouth the Rangers. But you must have been like, what are they doing trading this guy?

Once you saw how he played, especially the last two seasons. Yeah, the Rangers. Well, that was the running joke, right? We were the Rangers of the South because we had Miller, Strahlman, Callahan, McDonough. Like, it was crazy. We had everybody, Girardi. But the Ryan McDonough trade, you can't sit here and say that was, like, the sneaky trade that, like, we turned the corner,

but it was. And even though we lost, well, we had him, he is a stabilizer. And you've got dynamic players surrounded behind him but he ends games for you he he is there to do things like he plays the man's game against men and he's a phenomenal human being and to me like this playoffs, Vassie, he deserved the consummate, right? But if the award could not go to a goaltender and it was going to go to a position player, you could sit here and say Kucherov for sure could have got it. Braden Point, I mean, nine goals in a row in games, like for sure.

But the guy to me that should have garnered like massive votes and maybe finished second to Vassie was McDonough. Like if you think about the plays he made, like the play he made in game one of the playoffs, I don't know if you remember what pointer scores the goal, like in two minutes left of game one, the play McDonough makes the block, the shot have the wherewithal to block it,

grab it and then send them on a breakaway. shot have the wherewithal to block it grab it and then send him on a breakaway the play mcdonough made in game seven uh for the shorthanded goal when he when he read the play down low stop waited him out yeah and then and then gave it to sorelli and like sick and like even the play like the play on the winning goal for against montreal like to wait turn your hips pump fake sell send it over but and even the one the pinch the pinch too like you could think of probably five or six players how about the one we don't win against the Islanders oh that fucking this is all in one playoff here. So he had a big part of our game.

It was a passionate guy. And like I said, we don't win without that guy for sure. I was with Keith Yandel and Kevin Hayes, two former teammates with the Rangers. And they were like Mack truck, like best guy, best player. It was one of those things when you're talking to guys who've played with him and you can tell right away he's beloved by the guys who do it with him so 100 yeah he played like i mean i think he had a broken hand in the last like two rounds like he's just he's i i said to him it's like do you break your hand are you gonna be okay or something because

i'm not sure if it's quite broken but i've broken it three times already so i should be okay or something? He goes, I'm not sure if it's quite broken, but I've broken it three times already, so I should be okay. I know what it feels like. You know, it's just like some warriors, yeah. Coop, how happy were you for Stamkos this year? I know he scored the big goal last year, but he didn't get to play as much this year. He had a much bigger goal. So Stammer and I have grown kind of up together in the NHL,

and I remember that first moment in boston uh was a game 17 or whatever it was when he went hard to the net slid in and shattered his leg like i remember thinking as a coach i'm like oh my god our best player just went down i'm a rookie coach is he good like it was awful he had olympics too for him personally like it was just it was just tough and then he's had some bizarre ones. Like I might screw the years up. You know, he was great for us in 2015. And then 2016, he had the clot or whatever he had.

Like he missed the whole playoffs until game seven against Pitt. And so he's just had it. And then the next year we missed the playoffs because, you know, he had a knee injury. Like the poor guy's just gone through it all. And then I think that the tipper was, because he was fully intending to play last year in the bubble. And there was just major setback after setback. And it's just weird how things work out that he got to spend that two and a

half minutes in that moment. He was like, Hey, what line you you put me on like i'm putting you with the big rig like that's and he goes perfect just let me get out there like he didn't care don't put me on the power play i just want to be a part of it and then he goes on and scores that goal like that was uh it's crazy you know it's like storybook stuff but you get to this year and now you get to have a role in it like there would have been an empty space like his name would have been on the cup last year but he would have known like i really didn't get to play the games but now it's he was a big part of this one and you can't you got to be happy for guys that grind it out man like because being

injured is uh it's grueling for these players and so uh i was really happy for him and going back to kucha uh for a second people it seems and going back to kooch uh for a second people it seems like i find that out about his personality quite a bit over these last few days even if he doesn't know who biz is you know the thing with kooch like kooch doesn't really speak to the media he's quiet he is respectful but he just doesn't you don't hear him too often and i don't know i think when he speaks they cherish those moments because you don't get him very often he's a hell of a guy and he's a hell of a player and and um he's got passion and you gotta love that in the kid another player too i want to bring up is andre vasilevsky i mean this guy's the best goalie

in the planet now how when did you know this guy was golden for you? Early on? Yeah, like the one thing for me for goalies, it's your mental makeup. And first of all, sidebar, one of the funniest human beings I've ever met in my life. Like one liner after one liner. Like really good. Quiet, subtle, but he can get anybody. He's so funny.

But anyway, he gets thrown into the fire in 2015 when uh when bish gets hurt and now he's like starting in it's it was like game four i think he's like starting in the finals probably too young to come to the league but you can see on pure athleticism like this guy has it but it's like all right the mental makeup can he turn the page on a goal like how stressy and the one thing if you get a fault and i can't believe i'm going to say this out loud like there's the cliche oh he's first on the ice first on last off well that gets thrown around too much because like not all the guys can be that only one guy can be that well that was vasilevsky and over the years like bronzer goalie coach like they had to

you had to pull him back like you never wanted to miss a pre-game skate we had to say no you can't go on the ice like he worked so hard and when he figured out the mental side of his game of like you know what i let's channel my energy like he he had some tough games. Like he, he'd face 45 shots and then a goalie the next night he might face 15. And, and Vassie learned how to stay in the game the whole time. Like it's been crazy to watch. And cause he had the talent when he, Oh my God, he's, he's as good as I think might, we might ever see. I, in this playoffs year, I thought the torch was passed. The best goalie for the last 10, 15 years, and Vassie is probably going to take over that.

Biz, was it somebody we interviewed or an analyst who said he's as good as anyone he's ever seen? Do you remember us having that discussion? I think it was Kevin Weeks who was talking about it, or maybe McKenna, and just talked about even just the skating and the fact that he's so big. People have been joking around about the size difference weeks he was talking about or maybe uh mckenna and just talked about even just the skating and the fact that he's so big people have been joking around that uh about the size difference in equipment between him and carrie price have you seen that floating around coop yeah he kind of

looks like the guy in the kanye west video that was a photoshop on reddit oh yeah shit i'm the rumor guy by the way on the podcast i see that yeah but bass he's a he's a big man like he's he's got size and but his his preparation is on is unmatched like he's uh and he's just well i can't say enough about him um considering you'd spent time on long island when you went to college going back there and i'm sure you went to plenty games at the coliseum was uh was game seven against the islanders probably the most nervous you wrote through on Long Island when you went to college, going back there, and I'm sure you went to plenty of games at the Coliseum. Was Game 7 against the Islanders probably the most nervous you were out through all of the playoffs? Games in Tampa? Yeah, in Tampa, but just playing them and the whole experience.

There's no question. Because Game 6, I thought we had a chance to win it, and it just kind of like, eh, whatever. It got away from us. But then you're getting like, first of all, I saw Frank Sinatra in the Nassau Coliseum. So that always has like, it's like one of my greatest memories. I went to a ton of games there.

And I get to give those Islander fans credit. It was an amazing atmosphere. Like the songs, the chance, like going to a soccer game, I guess, like they're all, they're going nuts. And, and so when we come back for game seven, like I know how good the Islanders are. They know how good we are. I've coached against Trotsky. I know how good a coach he is. Like I know his guys are going to be ready and it was just going to be which team was going to outlast each other those are two evenly matched exceptional hockey teams and it took a phenomenal play by max sorelli gourd in a shorthanded goal that i don't think

the islanders have given up a shorthanded goal in the whole regular season to win the game and you know that's i think in the end, people say, does home ice really matter? I think it's sometimes those big game sevens they do, and it helped us. I was going to just quickly go back to Stevie Y. Obviously, it was probably hard to see him go. And just talk about maybe the impact he had on the team

that ended up winning the two Stanley Cups. And, you know, what he meant to you. Well, I think the biggest thing for me is he didn't get to get his name on the Stanley Cup when we won and the biggest the hardest thing for me was after uh after we lost to Columbus to talk to him and I thanked him because we knew he was um he was leaving and and it was that was crushing for me because he is a major architect of you go through the line like he's the one who got mac he's the one who got chernak he's the one that got sergachev uh so he built he built the base julian just topped it off and so i owe a ton to steve i learned so much from him i learned how to listen i learned how not to react right away and

take all the information in i learned how to be a pro he was not to react right away and take all the information in. I learned how to be a pro. He was a Stevie Y. He's a legend for a reason. He's the man. Cool. I got, I got one, one,

one more for you. I don't mind the ambient noise. It might be a little kind of all in the background. That's his servants in Columbia. Yeah. Bringing him his next plate. My earbuds might go soon. So I'm going to have to plug this.

Yeah. He's actually got to get dust. He's got to get cooch's next shipment up for the for the parade uh we're rushing you know rushing gas here i got my rushing gas shirt on uh the d word i think we're gonna probably start here in that now you win two in a row you guys got a great team still in place for the foreseeable future dynasty i'm talking about is that a word you embrace you pay no mind to what's your thoughts when when people start talking about that? Well, we might. I think it's – I mean, the team's gone to five conference finals

in the last seven years. Two of them we went to game sevens. Three cups. Two they won. But to be able to get that moniker, you have to win. And now that we've gone back-to- to back if you look at the teams of our like this little stretch of 10 to 15 years I mean Pittsburgh's won back to back they've knocked at the door I think what Chicago did was phenomenal three and six the Kings and then you're looking

at us and uh um I you know I can't see what's going on in the future here, but if you look back here and say, okay, well, let's go to top five or top three teams in the league, this team has done it for a long stretch. And that's a big word to throw around, but I'd like to say that the boys are, they've put them at the top of the mountain here for the last seven years or so.

Well, you guys haven't lost us. I got one last thing before we let you go. Stammer mentioned in celebration that there was two different times the team spoke about the likelihood of this team breaking up a little bit in terms of cap, and there was twice during the run. And were you a part of that? Was that players only? I just had to ask you about that so a lot kind of got into you know as a coach you you talk

to guys you get information but one of the guys i spoke with was ryan mcdonough and he passionately talked about that how we lost a game in the island. And he goes, this team's too good. We can't let this go. And it was like, well, you should talk about that. And you should talk to Stammer about that. And I don't know if it was Stammer or Mack went to Stammer. And then they kind of got together.

And I remember on the plane, I talked to Stammer afterwards. And he's like, we're going to get together as a group and Mac's going to speak. I'm going to speak, you know, I think Hedy was going to speak. Maroon was going to speak. I don't know exactly who did, but they, they knew like there was no guarantees what was going to be with this team. And I think, you know, as a coach, you know, I say this like bad, you know, bad teams, no one leads good teams, coaches lead great teams, players lead,. Good teams, coaches lead. Great teams, players lead.

And that's what you need. And when the players take over like that, for me, it's gravy because I know that they're going to lock it in and they found the motivation to do it because they didn't want the season to end with this group knowing with expansion, cap, and everything, they probably weren't going to be together as this group again. Hey, we can't thank you enough. You gave us a lot of time. The parade's coming up tomorrow. Congratulations. Once again, personally,

I think you should probably give the ring back when you get it. Cause you guys were over the cap and I agree with that. No, I'm fucking around. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Congrats. No. And, and like I said, I never really knew what a podcast was until the pandemic and started listening. And then I got into, I never understood like what, people record something and then play it like four days later, like this works. And now I'm a podcast addict.

I like listen to different things and I'm a big fan of you guys. You guys do an awesome job. One day I'm going to have to send you the picture of a golf tournament that I played in with Jeff Blaschel and we wore... At Gosser. We wore spit and chiclet t-shirts. It's a sick pick, but I haven't sent it. I'll have to send it to you guys. Hey, here's the good news.

We got golf merchandise now, and maybe we'll get you for a sandbagger down the road. And then we'll show you who the real champions are, buddy. You got to get some of the boys. Some of the boys down here would love to go in the sand the sandbagger i think we're gonna get maroon and cologne together but uh one last thing i want to say i was really happy that the fact last year you guys wanted the bubble this year you finally got to share it at home with the fans and when you i

saw when you got hand of the cup you know you you kind of gave it the i love you guys to the whole crowd that must have been a a pretty special moment for you to finally be able to deliver it to them in person. Yeah. You know, having the last name Cooper, when, if by chance they're booing you, I always say, well, they're just saying, but I, that will be one. If I can have one memory looking back, it was when I, when the cup was handed to me and I raised it and the appreciation the fans gave me and and it was right back at them that's why I was saying thank you uh we were robbed of that last year not having fans being a part of it

and maybe it was meant to be this way that our guys got to to experience in front of the fans that deserved it and um it gives me chills actually just thinking about it it was uh phenomenal well you go from that gut punch against columbus to the fact you guys haven't lost a series since so i'd say a dynasty is a fair word to use good luck uh moving forward we're only 11 series behind the islanders that's true that's true well breaking distance all right have a great time in the rest of the week the celebration here That's true. That's true. Well, breaking distance. All right, have a great time in the rest of the week. The celebration here.

My pleasure guys. And thanks again for having me. Save me a seat in the boat. I'll be there in two hours. He's going to, he's going to bring his own back over. Huge. Thanks for joining us a long time.

Come with him as well, but he did not disappoint. Just a great guy with a fantastic story to get where he's gotten. If you're shooting for something, man, keep shooting because that guy got there a little late like I did myself and he's found the glory. It's good stuff. Great story.

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you found some new stuff you hadn't heard before uh gee what else you got on tap anything like i always say subscribe to the youtube channel we got lots of cool hockey fest content coming out there this week and just tons of content coming out there in general. We have some big announcements coming up in the next few weeks, this stuff we're planning for, for the next season. So, so we're excited.

So subscribe to the YouTube channel. Absolutely. Gee, well said not, like I said, keep an eye out for those videos from Detroit, some funny stuff from them and some, some pretty nice saves from your boy as well.

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