Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 400 - Best Of 2022

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

The Best interviews and stories from 2022. Patrik Elias vs Pat Burns (1:08) Patrik Elias was almost a Rangers (8:04) Keith Jones (16:45) Billy Guerin (2:06:45) Wayne Gretzky (2:14:05) PJ Stock (3:18:20) Ryan Carter (3:30:45) Jeremy Roenick (4:24:00) Colby Armstrong (4:29:03) John-Michael Liles (4:34:34) Erik Johnson (4:40:57)You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 400 of Spittin' Chicklets, presented by Pink Whitney, from our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka, here in the Barstool Sports Podcast family. What's up, everyone? As you're likely aware, Chicklets is on our annual postseason break,

but we're still going to have an episode each week, starting with the best of today, then followed by, in no particular order, two consmith winners, two undrafted Hall of Famers, a cup-winning enforcer, and a point-per-game star of the 80s and 90s. So we got lots of good stuff coming to you. You're going to enjoy it. But in the meantime, it's Pink Whitney season.

The boys are officially on vacation, which means our coolers are filled. They're stocked with the delicious goodness that is the five-times-distilled vodka infused with fresh pink lemonade flavor. If you dig the birdie juice, head to your favorite local bar, order up some Pink Whitney, get a shot, have it with some club soda, have it however you like. Either way, enjoy that fine Pink Whitney. Come on, friends, that new Amsterdam vodka. Like I said, we got a lot of good stuff coming this episode. First up, though,

is devil's legend and should be Hockey Hall of Famer Patrick Elias got a lot of good stuff coming this episode. First up, though, is devil's legend and should-be Hockey Hall of Famer, Patrick Elias, and a couple of his many great stories. So now, enjoy Patrick Elias. Me, after playing those couple of years for Larry, and having a pointer game, and having a season when I had 94 points that one year, I wanted to play that type of hockey, obviously, and having fun. And with Burnsy, it was different. And we didn't see

ITI, and we had a very intense situation in Ottawa. And honest, trust me, I wasn't a player that would go against a coach

or was looking for trouble or, you know, wanted to talk to him or things like that. But it just kind of, I was so frustrated and I was so unhappy. And so, you know, I wasn't myself and I couldn't play the way I wanted to. I came to a point, obviously, throughout that season that I was like, you know, screw it. You know, I'm just going to kind of, you know, mute him and just get it, not even listen to him and just play my game. And in Ottawa, we had a game and he's, you know, if you guys remember how, you know, visitors locker room, And he's, you know, if you guys remember how you, you know,

visitors locker room, you go through back of the bench and into the locker room and he's standing before you turn right. And he's standing there just kind of having these hands in his, by his waist and just looking, you know, his mean face like that. And just looking at every guy and like looking at me, I'm coming in and, you know what i'm like start to look into his eyes and he's just looking at me just like makes that face i'm like what you're gonna fucking say something or you're just gonna stand there so he comes into a locker locker room and he starts screaming at me you know come you know yelling and you know you fucking guy what the fuck are you doing

running guys you're selfish you're not playing for a team and i and i honestly i i didn't i i played pretty good or great you know the last few games prior to that and he starts going after me he's probably because we were losing i think that game or something like that and so he's just trying to push the buttons again but he went after me, and I was – I just – You had enough. I had enough. And I would never disrespect a coach like that. I would come to him, you know, one-on-one, but not like that.

So he comes to lock and screaming and yelling at me. And Turner Stevenson stands up and just kind of goes in between me and him and says, you know, shut up, fuck you, get out of our locker room. We're going to straighten it out here. You're not going to talk to him. He's, you know, he's leading us. He's playing his best. And he just stood up for me.

And Pat kind of left and just, you know, left the locker room. And Turner says, you know, this is bullshit. You know, let's pick it up. Let's play our own game and start it again. And from that point on, when I did that, when I had that little fucking match with Bernsie, he wouldn't say much to me, but he all of a sudden started playing me a lot more,

left me alone. Honestly. Left me alone. Honestly, left me alone. I could, you know, when I made a mistake or something like that, he wouldn't do anything. And I just started playing way better. And from that point on, we had a really good relationship. Obviously, you know, we went out and we won the Stanley Cup. a really good relationship.

Obviously, you know, we went out and we won the Stanley Cup. So that was just all of a sudden, it was like Jekyll and Hyde, you know, the way he acted towards me and the way, obviously, our relationship turned and progressed. And obviously, you know, the second year, he found out that he had a health situation

and what happened to him. And that was another thing. That just changed him totally. He was all of a sudden start talking to us, ask about families. So it was just a persona. He became a human, honestly. He's a totally different person. He became a human, and you know it's totally different person he became a human and it was so

sad and so so you you for me it was a kind of a learning experience to know and that that showed me that the coaches they neither i don't think any other people are bad people they just kind of have their own way to push the buttons their own system their own style of coaching and uh yeah some guys can communicate better some guys don't know how so they do you know they they coach different way some guys know the systems some guys know how to coach some guys know how to talk some guys are are you know that's why i started appreciating later on in my career uh coaches like pet pete de bore you know he's a smart guy smart coach and if he had an issue with you he explained it and i'm like wow this is amazing so yeah yeah so you know it made me

appreciated coaches that were a lot more communicative. But on the other hand, it made me realize that Pat was just – he was a great coach. He knew how to push buttons, even though you didn't like it. But you look at the teams that he coached, he was successful as a coach. And it's sad that, obviously, his life ended the way it did. Was there ever a time where you got to communicate that after the Stanley Cup win about like maybe how sour the relationship was or was it just kind of like it just kind of poured itself out

and you left it at that? Yeah, we just left it at that. We became – you know, he liked Marty Brodeurora and those guys phage canadians and all those guys so yeah he he had a lot better relationship with them but he opened up even to rest of us so it was fine and i i i left it i left it in the past it was in the past and i left it uh you know alone and and uh it's funny because uh his wife she's i invited her obviously for my ceremony um when i when my jersey was retired and all of that i saw her at the uh uh 2000 event and all that and every time i see her she does that you know i know that was always

the the the toughest on you know but he he you were one of his favorites if not the favorite oh wow and it's yeah so it made me but again that's that's that's the way it is and i didn't mind the toughness i didn't mind the hardness but i just wanted to have i'd like to get explanations and uh sometimes you didn't get that because the code the people didn't know how to communicate how to tell you that. So you realize that quickly. We're going to ask you, since we're on the topic of the crazy situation with you, ended up signing back in New Jersey, or at least there's a few stories behind the scenes. Can you kind of go through that whole situation when you hit free agency and how you ended

up back with the Devils? Yeah, well, there's only one true story and that is uh that um after that season luke came up to me and just said you know listen you know you had a great season uh i'm sure you're gonna have the lot of teams going after you and offering you big money and i honestly don't think that we can afford to manage that and afford to sign you. And that's it. That was very short, you know, the season-ending meeting. And I kind of thought that it's just, you know,

it's just he's just trying to play the role or maybe just sign to set it up. So I kind of have that in my head and maybe for the negotiations. But throughout the summer, then there weren't any. And I was already with Alan and there wasn't one phone call. So I started getting ready that I'm honestly going to sign with someone else. So when the free agency started to happen, I wasn't ready for that, to be honest.

That was one of the, probably the most stressful, except playoffs maybe, you know, the finals and all that. That was probably one of the most stressful nights of my career or my professional hockey life. I was here, so the time change was an issue. I was here, so the time change was an issue. And I started getting offers from other teams, and we ended up collecting about 12, 13 offers from teams.

Then it came down to about five, and working out the numbers and the years. And at the end, it was LA and Rangers. And LA said, you know, we'll give you anything you want for how many years you want. Rangers offered something big. And at that point, little did I know, I didn't want to go to LA. I kind of wanted to play for a team that still had a chance to to be in the playoffs and that was kind of my goal and Rangers just came in hard because LA just said that they they signed they had a discussion with

Rob Lake unexpectedly that he decided to sign and play for another couple of years, which they didn't count on. And so they had a discussion with him and signed him up for two more years, I think. And then they came back and said that they have a certain amount of money for a certain amount of years.

And Rangers were offering a little bit more for more years. I work out with the Rangers pretty much to be agreed on the years, on the amount. And it was right after, actually, it was the year, the season prior to that was a lockout and I ended up contracting the hepatitis. So I didn't play for 10 months and I finished,

I started to play that year you know just a short season I played only 43 games uh I mean 38 games and I ended up with 43 points which I had no idea why I did that in the shape I was because I had no business of honestly putting up those numbers but I I played with Gomer and Gio and they had an unbelievable year so I kind of you know rode away with them that's huge yeah but with the Rangers we already had an agreement so I'm like okay Alan let's let's make it work let's ask him for no trade because I'm going to do you know obviously the biggest rival across the river I know what happened when Bobby Golik went there a couple years before me and if I'm doing that and I want to have something,

some kind of a leverage that if anything happens, they're not happy with me, that at least I can make a decision if I want to go somewhere or not eventually. And so we end up that conversation. He called Glenn Sater. I was hoping that or I was assuming that we're going to sign with them, you know, a few minutes later. And then Alan is like, well, this is what happened.

And Glenn Sater said that they didn't give a no trade to anybody. And, you know, not even Gretzky, not even Messier and other players, which I knew they did prior to, you know, me negotiating. And I'm like, well, Alan, but I'm not going to sign without that. It just kind of got me thinking. I'm like, Alan, if they're not going to do it, I feel like I need to call Lou. And he's like, I don't know.

Let's give them a couple more minutes. Let's try to – let me talk to him again. And he says, well, they said there is no way that they'll give you a no trade. I'm like, okay, I'm going to give a call to Lou. So I pick up the phone myself, called Lou, and said, Lou, I'm not going to lie. I'm obviously having a negotiation with New York for this amount, for this many years. And if there is any way I can sign with you guys, I'd love to stay with the Devils.

And he's like, well, what if we do this? What if we do this or this? And I'm like, if you think there's any chance, please give a call to Alan and let's make it work. So Alan calls me a couple of minutes later and says, Lou is willing to do the same amount, but for one more year. I'm like, and has no issue with no trade. I'm like, well, we got a deal.

So that's how it happened. We actually got an extra year. One more. I was going to say one less year. No, one more year you must have been like given her one of these no well no i'm gonna put it straight i got the same amount of money but for extra year to be you know so i had average with the rangers for uh i think it was seven million per back then okay and uh it ended up being with the devils for six million for because we added a year

but we lowered the same amount of money overall okay sorry my apology yeah so yeah no so i'm like uh let's get the let's get the fund going granelli yeah so i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not i was like after the hepatitis i'm like i'm fine with that it's it's a lot of money for me and uh you know i'm he and it's it's it's the way it's supposed to be but i'm just i was just shocked to be honest that it happened that quickly i'm like in back of my head thinking i'm like how the hell he didn't even call us like why didn't he even negotiate with us like and then we have a deal within five minutes later i am like where was he the whole summer did he just buy his phone waiting? Cause he knew the call was coming.

Maybe. I'm like, is he trying to, was he, was he waiting for me to make that step again? Like to feel like, this is really where I want to be. This is where I want to play. I'm like, but it was just so close for me to, go to New York and obviously you know Glenn Sater wasn't really happy because we end up signing back back with the Devils and oh Alan is like oh I can't even tell you I don't have a long enough dictionary with the bad words to tell you what Glenn Sater was saying on the phone and he's like it's not going to be easy for you to come yeah well that's what I said

if he just did that I became a ranger but you know obviously it just it happened and it ended up the way it was supposed to be because to be truly honest I couldn't

have written it better the way my career ended the way it finished but lou always kind of said you know you know i'm happy we worked it out i'm you know remember back then you know when you were on you know signing and all that uh he he didn't it wasn't his credit back then it was it was all on me you know i made that decision to give him that give him a call and and make it happen but uh it was supposed to happen that way so yeah I became a devil big thanks again to Patty for joining us and hopefully the Hockey Hall of Fame does the right thing soon well deserved

well next up is one of our instant classics uh we went down to Keith Jones's horse farm in South Jersey and well we came back with a doozy now enjoy Keith Jones in his hilarious entirety all right it's time to bring on our next guest a seventh round pick of the Washington Capitals in the 1998 draft he played 491 games over nine NHL seasons with three very good teams of that era and for the last 15 or so years you've no doubt seen him on TV breaking down the games for us with NBC, and now he's raising hell with biz on TNT. Thanks so much for having us here at your beautiful farm in Salt Jersey

and for joining us on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast. Keith Jones, nice pad, Jonesy. Yeah, it's great to have you guys here. It's been a lot of fun already even before the show starts. I'm gassed from laughing at all the stories I've already heard, for fuck's sakes. So I don't know how many we got left in the tank here. We're going to have to repeat them and give them some fake laughs. I pulled in beautiful property, big farm, and saw some donkeys.

I said, all right, we're going to have a time. Donkeys are already making some noise. How many pets you got here? Well, we got the four miniature donkeys. We've had horses for years, but my daughter's got them down in Florida now. So we've got a nice, friendly dog who you met, Leo. He's famous around this area. He will bite, and there's a warning that comes with that dog.

Everywhere you look, there's beware of dog signs. I saw the sign we pulled in. It's funny. Most people say when you go to meet the dog, don't worry, he won't bite. I went to pet his dog. His wife said, no, no, no, he'll fucking bite. Yeah, well, she bite. What breed is it because a lot of he's a cane corso or a bull mastiff okay um they're extremely

good dogs but very protective dogs if you see one and he's not yours stay away from him he's gotta be over 100 pounds yeah he's 165 pounds nice little lap dog for jonesy he's like he's a bear like when he's coming for you like it's yeah it's not it doesn't end well that's for sure yeah when you don't want to make eye contact with a dog it's probably a scary dog all right jonesy i don't know if you want to jump into the tv stuff the career for us we guys want to kick off and this guy's got stories galore i'd kind of just love to just to start with tnt right you and biz work together now and you've been crushing it i've been listening to you for years but it must be pretty exciting to be with a new tv station and just basically see a lot of money going into a product that's looking great so far yeah and it's it's a different role for me

now like i'm down between the benches it's fresh know, after doing studio for a long time, I'm happy and was real open to trying something a little bit different. And I've worked with people that during game broadcasts with the Flyers where we've had a guy down between the benches. And, you know, so I have experience realizing what's important about that job and what you don't need with that job. And I think it's important to try to enhance the broadcast, but don't ruin the broadcast. And I think we've had examples through hockey where that position hasn't been used properly. And being able to watch it from studio for years

and then also working from upstairs, I know what I wanted from that guy. And I'm trying to provide that without overwhelming the broadcast and just having fun with it and getting a different perspective from the players down where we used to sit by the benches. I would imagine the banter is not as aggressive as it once was from bench to bench. It's probably a lot more calm these days.

It's interesting. I mean, it's different. When things get heated, the guys get angry. There's a little bit more. But when I played that that place was i mean that was a hilarious place to be and and you were the guy cracking all the yeah because of luckily i had seven guys that were tougher than me on my own team so it was good to be the funny guy back then right but it was uh it's different there's not as much of that interaction and

a lot of those conversations that we had led to, you know, might not have been me personally fighting, but someone I knew very well on my team was going to have to fight. And that stuff is a little more limited than it used to be, which is, you know, it's probably a lot better. But it was a lot more fun back then. I was going to hop in quickly with working with Edzo. Like I knew that he was really involved with like the horse community and,

you know, he knows like any horse that you could gamble on. He gave us the winning Derby pick, give it gave us the winning Derby pick on our podcast. But you, you have a pretty big love for horses and your daughter is actually still heavily involved, correct? Yeah. She's an equestrian down in Ocala, Florida.

She is. So she's not coming back here. She's on her way. She's 23. Now the big reason I have like four different jobs is to try to pay for her horseshit. Anyway, so that's what she's doing. I've had racehorses in the past. Edson and I often talk about the horses. We both had a great love of betting on them. And I've had some good luck with some of the horses that I've owned in the past too. So I had a buddy of mine

who passed away, was a billionaire, introduced me to a whole different world on horses. His name was Dan Borslow and kind of opened my eyes to this world I didn't realize was out there and was involved in a couple of really good horses with him. And it's a great game. It's the one that is more for older people than it is for younger people.

It'd be great for that sport if we could bring in some more younger fans, but the old boys still love it. And I've always enjoyed it myself. Breeders' Cup weekend. I saw the OT, he's got the OTB vets going on in the backyard, pool set up. It's pretty nice.

I know it's not going to drop till after. Who do you, who do you like on the breeders? You know what? I haven't even looked at it yet because I've been so busy doing other things that I'll look at the race right before it starts and come up with who I like. And a lot of times Edzo will send me a text and say, hey, this is who I'm going with. And I usually just follow him.

Insider trading. He's like an incredibly good handicapper. Really? He can actually pull it out that way? I'm telling you, I've never seen anybody handicap horses like him. And as you guys know, there seen anybody handicap horses like him. And as you guys know, there's race after race after race. And being patient, picking the right race.

The jockey, right? That's how you survive. Like, if you want to play every race, if you love to bet, horse racing is going to eat you alive. It's like betting a board in the NFL. It is. You're not going to win. So if you're betting for fun, right, it's really difficult. If you're betting because you're a handicapper and you want to actually keep your money

and try to make some money, you've got to be really patient and you've got to wait for your right spot. And a lot of people are betting because they're having fun with it and they want to watch every game and bet every game. Maybe they got Sunday away from the wife and they're going to play all day and you're going to lose.

But you're going to have fun doing it, and that's really what it's all about. It's like the NFL. If there were new games starting in every time zone, every 24 hours. I mean, you could bet races in Australia, Japan, all night. You've got to be careful with that TVG, so I heard. Oh, yeah. I would go back to between the benches for a sec. Like, Jonesy, what else can you pick up there other than the audio element,

you know, what guys are saying? What else do you pick up at that level that you can't see up high? You can see the conversations with the coaches to the players. You can tell when a coach is irritated, when a coach is happy about something. You also gain a lot of respect for how difficult the job is for the officials. Sometimes you're looking at a puck over the glass play. There's one that happened the other night,

and I was positive that it hit the defending player's stick and went up and over. And after the fourth look, I finally realized that, hey, it didn't. There's a double clutch with Kopitar. Kopitar should have got the 2-4 of the glass. But I hear you. He didn't get it? He didn't get the penalty. But like you said, it was so close.

And it looked like it had hit the defender's stick or the offensive player because it was in Kopitar's own end. Like you said, it's just like everybody wants to rag after watching all these replays, but it's like the pace of the game, no wonder these guys are making mistakes every night. Yeah, that's one thing you really see down there. And there's bodies in front, moving in front of those guys. That's an incredibly difficult job that they have.

So I guess that's one of my biggest takeaways being down there is just because I could be hypercritical when you're covering it from way above and you can see everything or you're watching on TV. And some ways, in some cases, you have a better look than even official that's at ice level. So it makes me back off a little bit on some of the officials that miss a few calls. And it makes you happy that they have replay reviews like we have now. It's important. You need it. I think it's important, too, because even if you're Edzo doing color, sometimes I found that game to be a little bit boring at times.

And getting that perspective between the benches, when you're sitting there between the benches, it could be a boring game. But it's not as boring for those guys. It's not because it's so fast and there's all these different elements to it that then you can describe on the broadcast so i love the fact that they got you in there you guys have awesome rapport i remember there was a broken stick on the ice at one point and then they were just giving it to you about how that's how you used to collect points and shit so the the banter when games do get a little bit dull is amazing between all you guys and of course kenny alberts of beauty as well Yeah, and Kenny started doing – I knew Kenny when he was covering

Baltimore Skipjacks games when I first arrived in the minors for my first experience. He called my first goal. That's where he started. Yeah, that's where he was at. And the guy's been everywhere. Yeah. And one of the great things about those days were the reporters

and the play-by-play guys hung out with the players. I mean, they were part of the family. You guys, you did everything with them. They traveled on the bus. He roomed with Barry Trotz. Barry Trotz was the head coach of the team, and Kenny Albert was his roommate. So, I mean, that's how it used to be, right? And that's, you know, Marv Albert would show up at a game.

We'd go to dinner. It was just an incredible family-type atmosphere that really, at a minor league level, really made you think, this is something I really want to do. And fortunately, I was able to do that. Because you have your day-to-day with the Flyers. You're doing the pre and the post, and you're doing the games, obviously. But when NBC Sports was kind of lame duck, and you realized that their broadcast was going to be ending,

I don't want to say you might've been nervous, but like, how did you get involved with TNT? Did they reach out first? And you were like, Oh yes, I got something else. I was nervous.

I really was. Cause I didn't see it coming. I was kind of in the dark about it all. I just thought, you know, the Olympics are coming, you know, NBC's got that.

It would just be, just didn't, didn't see it coming. So I was like, wow, I better get going here. And I always, you know, Brian Boucher is a good friend of mine as well. We played together here in Philly and he, he went on to ESPN, right. And I'd always be telling him, bugging him about

his agent, you know, who used to be my agent. I, at NBC, I got rid of him. I can do it myself. You know, I thought it was a big wheel and I'd always be telling him, you're going to, you're going to wait to that day when you're writing those checks I keep telling him right well listen I called that guy I need you back so the first day Boosh is calling me he's going how are you gonna feel when you're writing those checks you know but I it was Lou Oppenheim and I needed him and he came up big for me but otherwise you know like it's it was just it was a scary moment for me. And obviously, I still had the flyers. I still have radio. I've been really fortunate with all the things I've been able to do in my career and post-career.

But I was real happy to land at TNT. Yeah, you transferred out unbelievably. Okay, so we talked about the American League shtick. But the fact that you brought up negotiating your own contracts, weren't you your own agent even as a player in the NHL? I was. And you would show up to the meetings with an empty briefcase this is uh it's an incredible thing when i think back on it ben affleck and uh what's that good one yeah yeah yeah suspect retainer yeah i was with the capitals i was uh going on my second contract my first

agent was a guy named gene mcurney who was out of Toronto. He used to be Ola Nolan's agent. And he was a great guy. He had one eye. He used to take out his glass eye at parties and scare people with it. Put it in a drink. Yeah, you just have his socket sitting there. It was a scary thing.

But anyway, he did a great job. He is a billionaire now. He was not suffering after I let him go, I can tell you that. Thank God. Extremely successful guy. Cover the dead weight. Yeah, exactly. And so I told David Poyle, for one reason,

this was the end of the lockout year, the shortened season. I think I scored like 14 goals in the 40-something games I played, right? So I was thinking I was pretty good, right? And Rob Pearson was on the team. He was traded from Toronto to Washington, and he scored one goal all year. And Rob Pearson was a pretty good player in Toronto, goal scorer, I think he had 25 goals or close to it.

And he had the one goal, but he was making 500 grand. And I was making 300,000. And I was so focused on making 500 grand. And I was making, I was making 300,000. And I was so focused on this 500 grand that Ralph Pearson was making that it consumed me. So I said to my agent, Gene McBurney, I still had another year on this deal. I think at 330.

And I'm like, I got to get rid of you. I got to do this myself. You're fired. He goes, what? I go, yeah, you're fired. I'm doing it myself. So I called David Poyle on the phone.

I go, David, it's Jonesy. I'm representing myself now, and I'd like to sit down and talk to you. He's like, yes. He's loving it. He's loving it. He's going to make less next time. So he's like, you know, we got the – it was the unveiling of the Capitals jerseys that turned the blue. Remember they went from the red, white, and blue, and they turned into the of the Capitals jerseys that turned the blue.

Remember, they went from the red, white, and blue, and they turned into the blue, the ugly jersey? Yeah, ugly. Oh, that's your rookie year jersey. Yeah. Brutal. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so they were making the switch.

It's got to be 94, 95, somewhere there. It was after the lockout. So I go to this event where they're doing it. It was someplace down in D.C., one of the bars, Planet Hollywood or something. They're unveiling the jersey. So David's there, and I go, hey, is this a good day to get together? He's like, yeah, this is a great day. He stopped by the office.

So I drive over to the Cap Center at that time. Are you nervous? No, I'm excited. I'm excited. I went to Western Michigan. I can do this. I can't wait to do it. It's just a strange thing. So I've got a pair of flip-flops on. I've got Western Michigan. I can do this. I can't wait to do it. It's just a strange

thing. So I've got a pair of flip-flops on, I've got a pair of shorts, and I got a t-shirt on and an empty briefcase. So I walk into his office and I can just see he's like, he just can't wait to see me. And I'm thinking he must like me, right? But he's thinking this guy's an idiot. So I sit down and he starts bringing his secretary in with notes on different players. And he's thinking, this guy's an idiot. So I sit down, and he starts bringing his secretary in with notes on different players. And he's discussing. He goes, Keith, this is the hard part of the job. This is where it's usually important that you have an agent to be a buffer, because I've got to tell you what you do poorly now, right?

And I'm like, David, I'm Keith Jones, the agent. The player is outside the door. And he just starts, I could just see his face, right? He's trying to keep a straight face. And I'm like, yeah, this is happening, you know, this is happening.

He's like, what an idiot. So he gets a list of all the players, the comparables. Bill Lindsey, Travis Green. He's going over a whole list of all the players, the comparables, Bill Lindsey, Travis Green. He's going over a whole list. Michael Renberg, he says, you can't get Michael Renberg money. Here's his numbers. And so some of the players he would name, I'd go, I never heard of him.

The guy would have like a 20-goal season, right? Yeah, I never heard of him. Let me look at this up, and I would open up my empty briefcase. There is not a piece of paper in this briefcase. And I would look in it, and I would hesitate, and I'd pretend I was really interested in something, and I would look back at him, and I'd go, David, if I played with Eric Lindros and John LeClair,

I would score 25 goals. I'd have 30 goals. You know it. I know it. And we would go back and forth like this through the meeting. So at the end of it, I finally said, David, if I have to make less money than Rob Pearson next year, this is the only thing that's on my mind. You're back to Rob Pearson.

This is the only thing that's on my mind the whole time. That was only written in your briefcase. I should have had that written down. It's just consuming thing that's on my mind the whole time. That was only written in your briefcase. I should have had that written down. It's just consuming me, right? So I said, if I have to make less money than Rob Pearson, I will not play hockey again. I will quit. And I thought I meant it, but looking back, I obviously didn't.

So anyway, he says, okay, Keith, thank you. This has been a really good meeting. I'll get back to you. So I shook his hand, and I I walked out and one week went by. Two weeks go by, no phone call, nothing. I'm thinking, I thought he was going to get back to me. Right now we're in the middle of the summer. It's like the end of July almost, right?

I'm like, this isn't going very well for me. So Dave Poulin calls me out of nowhere. He was playing for the Caps at that time. He calls me, he goes, Jonesy. I go, yep. He was playing for the Caps at that time. He calls me. He goes, Jonesy. I go, yep. I was in Brantford in my hometown. He goes, are you still representing yourself?

And I'm like, yes, I am. He goes, you're an idiot. He goes, you can't do that. You should use my agent. His name's Steve Mountain, and he'll get your deal done. I said, okay. That's how long you lasted. That's how long I lasted, two weeks.

I hadn't even talked to Steve. I never talked to Steve Mountain. I agreed to a deal with him through Dave Poulin. I said, tell him to go ahead and get the deal done. I get a call three weeks later from Steve Mountain. He says, yeah, I got your deal. You're getting $500,000 next year. No way.

Did they rip up the contract? I got a one. You're getting $500,000 next year. No way. So did they rip up the contract of you making $300,000? I got a one-year deal with $500,000. And I was so happy. So you didn't have to play through that last year, the contract? That's how it worked back then? That wouldn't happen anymore. That's NFL style. Yeah, so I got the $500,000.

Now, I'd like to think that it was my spirited conversation with David, but it was obviously – I think it laid the groundwork to be honest with you. Yeah, same here. He probably respected you for it. Yeah, well, he knew I was not. Like we had so many things that happened in my days, in the early days of my career where I did stuff I would never do again. And I would.

Example? Well, one time I kicked the coach off the ice in practice. And I can all say it because I used to ice in practice. And I'll say it. I used to say it like I was bragging about it. Now I say it because I'm embarrassed about it. So that was the start of this very season. It was like nine games in. I never did anything during the lockout.

I was convinced we were going to be out all year. I skated like twice the whole time, like for four months. Because we went out after training camp. So we had time like for four months after because we went out after training camp so we had training camp oh and then then we went out and then it was like four months and you kept hearing it's gonna be a year we're not gonna be back so i took it like it's probably gonna be a year so i'm gonna have some fun jonesy time yeah so i showed up i wasn't in very good shape nine games in the season i'm and I know it. So a lot of times to disguise my poor conditioning, I would just cause some chaos and get some distractions going

in a different direction, right? So Jim Schoenfeld's the coach, and he says, the words you never want to hear as a player, as you guys know, get a skate in, right? You're not going to play the next night. I'm not going to be in the lineup, right? So I'm going to be a healthy scratch. So I go livid about that stuff.

Number one, I hate skating at the end of practice. Probably the biggest part of it, to be honest with you. Number two, you're embarrassed because you're getting sat out. So we're doing drills. Olaf Kolzig's in net. Randy Burrage is on the ice with me. Ken Klee and a couple other guys. There's like five of us.

And I take a shot from the middle of the ice. You're supposed to shoot the puck, skate to the boards, skate back to the middle of the ice, shoot again. You know, you're working your legs, but you're also shooting the puck. A true bag skate. Yeah, it is. Those are the worst ones when you go to the pucks. They try to disguise it.

Yeah, yeah. The hidden bag skate. So I missed the net by like an inch. And Keith Lane, who's the coach at Yale now, and has had a real good career after, he comes up to me and he goes hit the net you know and I'm like oh okay so the next shot I take I put it like 30 feet wide and I look over at him now I'm like going wild the head's spinning right and I'm like is that close enough for you and he comes over to me and he goes you know you're you're an a-hole i go yeah

yeah i am i said but uh you know you're you're shoney's guy you know like it's just i said some really bad things i i wish i could take you went personal i just went nuts about it and shoney was a guy a fitness not coach and he'd always do his push-ups he was in way better condition than i was and they do sit up so I told Keith I said why don't you go and help Shoney I think he just finished his sit-ups you can help lift him up off the ground you know so it's really terrible things to say so we're going back and forth and now I lose and I go why don't you get off the F and ice I'll skate the guys and he left and he went off the ice and And now I'm looking around, I'm going,

all right, now what? Right. I know I'm in a lot of trouble. So I didn't think he was going to leave. Yeah. And he left. So I started skating the guys. So all of us are doing the suicide, you know, it's the blue line back, red line back, blue line back. And I've never hustled and worked so hard in my life. So it ends and I know I'm in trouble, right? So come off the ice. And Todd Button was the assistant coach at that time with Shoney and Todd's waiting for me. He goes, Hey, Shoney wants to see you. And I'm like, really? That's surprising to me. So I got my shirt off, got my hockey pants on still on my equipment, my guts hanging out over my pants. Got my hockey pants on still and my equipment, my guts hanging out over my pants.

And I walk into his office and he's like, did you say that I'm such and such? Like some of the things I said you would never say to a boss and you should never. So I said, yeah, that's correct. And so then he started going over how you get to the point where you're a healthy scratch. And he's explaining it to me. Here's what we rated you the last game, two out of five. Keith had you two out of five. Todd had you two out of five.

I go, hold on here. All three of you guys came up with the exact same number. I can't believe that these two guys have the same number as you have. You don't say. So I'm not done yet. I should have just shut up. So he's like, get the hell out of my office. And I left his office.

It turned into a long few days, I can tell you that. How many games did you end up getting scratched? Just the one. OK. Just the one. And to be honest with you, the story gets a little bit longer. But we lost the next game in Boston and now we're in New Jersey and we're staying at the um the embassy suites so you can see everybody everybody's room you know you can see where everyone's at Shoney we're but now we're losing so he's like nobody

leave their room until you meet with us in the conference room and then you can go do whatever you want to do in the day. We're not practicing. We had a whole day off. So I'm like, okay. So I sat in my room from 8 a.m. to 11 o'clock at night. So every player went in and this is hanging over my head because I've had this outburst, right? So I get a call from Joe Juno. He says, hey, Shoney asked me who I wanted to play with. And I told him I want to play with Jonesy. So two hours later, I got Michael Bavanka calls me. Shoney asked me who I wanted to play with. I told him I want to play with Jonesy. Another two hours, Dale Hunter calls me. Hey, Shoney asked me. I told him I want to play with Jonesy because I had told him I want to be traded and everything. I just had this crazy outburst.

So at 11 o'clock at night, I get the call to come down to this conference room, and Shoney's an intimidating man. He's right across from me, and he looks at me, and he goes, you still want to be traded? And I said, you know, I did. But since all the guys called me and said they want to play with me, I've decided I'm going to stay. Oh, my. So you've now tripled down this is it like i just can't stop myself right so he left so he looks at

me he looks at me and he gives me you know the fifth the hand fist you know like he wasn't a hand shaker he'd give you the little fist thing the hairy knuckles he was a germ he was way ahead of his time he was a germ germaphobe yeah howie Mandel. Oh, that's why he did it? Yeah, yeah. So he gave me that, and I give him this one. Yeah, you're bowing. Yeah, so I walked out of the room. I gave Keith Elaine a wink on the way out of the room,

and I was back in the lineup. True story. Is that the craziest thing? And I was making, at that time, 300 grand a year. I thought I was rich. I thought I had, I don't know, it's obviously great money, but I thought this is like, I'm set for life year, I thought I was rich. Like I thought I had – The world by the balls. It's obviously great money, but I thought this is like – I'm set for life.

This is what I was thinking. I was so brained in. Now we know why Shawnee went after Coho so hot. He was a fitness nut about the donuts. I was thinking that too. Have another donut. So did it get awkward when Jonesy the player had to play Jonesy the agent? Yeah, the agent handled it a lot better than the player, that's for sure.

The agent chucked the briefcase and that was it. But you mentioned in that story, Brantford, Ontario, so I guess you're the second most famous hockey player ever from Brantford. There's about nine more ahead of me, man. I've been looking at that list. I told Gretz one night, I said, hey, we're the highest scoring duo in the history of the NHL from the same town and then i looked it up there's like nine guys from branford ahead of me so i couldn't even claim that chris gratton's from there oh no way doug

jarvis is from there the iron man like it's incredible the number of records are held from guys from branford right small town right it is's 77,000 people. I would say that I was probably the least likeliest to find my way to the NHL. I played junior C hockey. I read at least the beginning of your book. It takes me a while. You read the forward, Biz. He fell asleep two seconds in. I got the Coles notes.

But, yeah, like you were never super hyper-focused on it where you would take your summers completely off. You enjoyed just being around the guys, especially during your junior C days. You guys were playing 30 games a season. Yeah. So you'd be done by the end of March, and you would take from then until training camp completely off. What was the title of that chapter, Beers and Chicken Wings?

Was it? Yeah. I haven't read it. I don't recommend anyone reads it. Well, it was a grade five reading level level so i figured it was right up my alley it is it is yeah so i was uh yeah i played hockey because i love playing hockey and i didn't do anything else i mean never thought of the show never i was playing junior c hockey i was 17 years old then 18 years old i went back you know i tried out for junior junior b on a team that

rob blake played for in my hometown called the Brantford Classics, and I thought I'd make the team. I was a good hockey player through midget. I was good, but I wasn't great. I was smaller because I hadn't grown yet. I was a late bloomer. But I just thought I'd make the team, and they cut me, and I was like, oh, now what do you do? And then I got a letter in the mail, Junior C Hockey in Paris, Ontario.

It's like 15 minutes outside of Brantford. I'm like, well, I guess I'll try out there and see what happens. So I tried out for the team, barely made the team, and then all of a sudden started to grow, started to become a better hockey player, got a new pair of skates, which kind of helped too because I kept falling down all the time. It's amazing the little things that had to happen for me to kind of navigate my way out of playing Junior C.

But I played Junior C for two years because Brantford was kicked out of the league after the season that I got cut for a huge brawl. What? I was at the game. It was Brantford against St. Catharines. Half the St. Catharines team left the ice. The other half that stayed got pummeled by every player on the Brantford team. The other half didn't come back to help? Nobody came back.

They left. They left their teammates on the ice. Holy shit. And Blakey was on the team. Todd Francis, a guy named Todd Francis, was like a second-round pick in the NHL. He was playing junior B after being a major junior A before that. And I'd never witnessed anything like that. I felt really bad watching it, to be honest with you.

So they kicked that team right out of the league for a full year, the entire – Where did he catch a guy with a drop kick? In the book it says that guys were holding down other guys' arms and another guy would just be wailing on them. I mean, I guess rightfully so. They got completely tossed for a full season. I've never heard of that.

This really happened. And literally, there'd be guys holding guys' arms behind their back while somebody filled their face in with punches. I mean, how angry do you got to be to do something like that, right? And I'm like, oh, maybe I don't want to play hockey that bad. So that team wasn't available to try out the next year. I said, I'll go back to Paris and play again. Why not?

And I played. Played really well. There was fights every night, but I never was in them. I started them and then I got out of the way. And it's like, I had luckily had friends on my team that I'd like to protect, you know, protect me. And I learned how to kind of play that way. And I'd never had a fight in my life away from the rink or on the ice until i played in the nhl no shit never had a fight not even in the streets not in the streets you after your few years in junior c and i was going to bring up the fact that you actually started your agent days uh negotiating the contract for gas your second year of junior c so let's quickly get in that one but then you went off to play in Niagara Falls near my hometown for Junior B for a couple years.

You would get $10 in gas from John Sunoco. That was the sponsor if you were the player of the game in Junior C. Right? And they tried to divide it up and stuff. I'd have a game where I'd get nine points. I wouldn't get player of the game. I'd be so angry if I didn't get the $10. I need that gas money.

It would drive me nuts the whole time. So I went in and I told the guy that was running the team my second year, I said, hey, listen, this is really important to me. I need like $50 gas money all the time. And so they agreed to it, the guy that ran the team. You barely got your own sticks. I mean, it's very primitive back then. You rode a school bus to the games.

You'd wear sweaters. Hey, girlfriends were allowed on the bus. Yeah, girlfriends were on the bus. Some guys were married. Some 20-year-old guys on the team were married. Their wife would be with them. The beers would be on the bus. You had sweatpants, a pair of cowboy boots, a T-shirt.

It's unbelievable. What is this, 92? This is 1985. Oh, yeah, back it 1985. Oh, yeah. Back it up. 85. Yep. The year I was born, Johnsy.

Yeah, there you go. See, that's a strange thing, man. It is as you get older. But looking back on it, it was just an unbelievable experience. Had a great time. And then got a chance. I tried out for Junior B. And Gilbert Dion was on that team.

The Niagara Falls. The Niagara Falls. Thunder. Thunder. Not thunder. It was team, the Niagara Falls Thunder, not Thunder, it was Canucks, Niagara Falls Canucks. And the two owners were twin brothers, Tim and Terry Masterson, and they really changed my life, to be honest with you. They were awesome guys, real guys. Like you just – they just wanted you to be a good teammate and play and have fun. So I showed up there, barely made the team.

I remember telling my dad, we went out to dinner. I said, hey, this is awesome. I made junior B hockey. I can tell my kids I'm playing junior B. So he's like, oh, that's great. You know, that's awesome. So we played the year, and all of a sudden I just caught fire. And I think I had like 140 points, 150 points, played in all situations.

Our team was awesome. And about midway through the season, my coach tells me, hey, there's a guy from the Washington Capitals that wants to talk to you. And I'm like. Who's fucking with me? Yeah, okay. Which guy's fucking with me? Because I would go to Maple Leaf gardens as a fan.

I'm 19 years old. I'm watching Eddie Olchuk play for the Leafs. And I'm not ever thinking in my mind that I would actually have a chance to be on the ice. Right. It just doesn't, it's not even in the back of my mind. So this guy says, um, I'm with the Washington Capitals. His name was Jack Button. Um, I would, Todd Button's dad, ironically, he said,

I came here to watch a guy play named Jim Sully, was a guy playing for St. Catharines. He was like 14. I'm 19. He said, and I can't stop watching you play. He goes, you fall down, you get back up, you fall down, you get up, you score. And he said, like, you can't stand up, but you're in terrible shape, but you just keep doing something. Right. I'm like, yeah. Okay. So he tells me this and I think I'm embarrassed to tell anybody I know, because I'm thinking this is like, this ain't right. You know, I'm 19 years old. He goes, no, we're really interested. We'd like you to go to college and we're going to set up some visits for you. Now, most kids, as you guys know, they commit to college the year before. Oh, yeah.

17. I'm 19 years old and this is February and I'm going on recruiting trips for the following season and I'm showing up and these guys are like, you know, the guys are taking me on the recruiting trip. One guy smoking weed, the other guy, I'm like, what is this all about? You're going to the packing. It's like, this is crazy. You're like, I commit.

Yeah, so I go to Western Michigan for my first visit, and I meet the head coach, Bill Wilkinson, great guy. Became a big factor in my life as time went on. But I meet him. He says, you know, Jonesy, I got to watch you play again, to be honest with you. I've only seen you a couple times. Most times they commit to you right then, right?

At the meeting. So I said, okay. So I went back and I was going to go to Lowell and to Northeastern on visits. But I really didn't want to, because I didn't really enjoy the flight to go to Kalamazoo. I'd never really flown much before. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this that badly. Right? So, and I wasn't in school.

I was out of school for a whole year. I didn't, I was 19 years old, just playing junior B hockey, making $70 a week. And my mom would give me money. And that's, it was the best time of my life, right? It was, it was awesome. And so now I'm thinking, I don't know how badly I want to go to school because I wasn't a great student and I go back. So I'm getting ready to go to Lowell and I'm going to see Northeastern on the same trip. Just as I'm getting up, I wake up, I'm hung over from drinking the night before and having chicken wings. And just, this is what I did. We practiced once a week playing junior B. That's it. One practice. Played two games a week, practice once. So I get up and the guy's like, it's Bill Wilkinson, my roommate tells me. So

I pick it up. He goes, hey, you know, I've reconsidered it. We want you to commit to Western Michigan. I'm like, yeah, good. I'll do it. So I never ask. Yeah, so I tell him. That's how it happened. So I go there at the start of the next season,

and I've talked about my physical conditioning, right? I've never, now I get, I should back up a little bit. I get drafted that summer. Oh, okay, I was going to ask you. So you were drafted by the Capitals. So they did fall through and they set up the call. You're like, wow, this is. So Button loved you.

So yeah, and I didn't know, there's another guy who loved me named Sam McMaster, as the story goes, but I don't go to draft, obviously. I don't even know when the draft is. So I'm at Flamborough Downs betting the horses, right? I get back and my dad's sitting on the porch of the house and he's all excited. And I'm like, what's wrong with him?

Hit the trifecta. He goes, you've been drafted. And I'm like, are we going to war? He's like, no, you've been drafted. And I'm like, are we going to war? He's like, no, you've been drafted to the NHL. And I'm like, really? He says, the Capitals want you by the phone tonight at 8 o'clock, and they want to talk to you. And I'm a little suspect about it, right?

And I'm like, I don't know about this. So my mom tells me, yeah, they called me on the phone. I go, what happened? They go, so there's a draft list of that time, like 3000 kids. And I'm not on it. I'm not on the draft list. So they call my mother from the draft in the seventh round. And they say, how old's your son? They asked for me and she says, oh, he's not home. So how old's your son? She says, well, he's born November the 8th, 1968. Good. Listen to this. So they held the phone up, and they announced the Washington Capitals

select Keith Jones with the 141st pick of the draft, right? And my mom got to listen to it on the phone. That's awesome. So she's excited, you know, and I get home, and they say, 8 o'clock, be there. They want to talk to you phone. That's awesome. So she's excited, you know, and I get home and they say, 8 o'clock, be there. They want to talk to you. So I go downstairs. Was there not a slight delay because they had to verify that your age was,

in fact, your age because you wasn't on this list? You probably could have been drafted the year before. Yeah, I was eligible the year before, for sure. So now I'm drafted to the NHL. So at 8 o'clock they're going to call me, right? So this junior B guy that never works out, here they call, right? And I'm like down in my parents' basement. I'm on the phone, you know, and I'm like, this is unbelievable, right?

So Brian Murray gets on the phone at that time, and he's like, hey, we know we drafted you in the NHL. There's one man we want you to talk to that fought for you to be drafted. And I'm like, yeah, put him on. So it comes on. My name's Sam McMaster. He said, you're going to play in the NHL. That's pretty cool.

And I'm like, me? So I'm thinking to myself, and I go, thank you, sir. And he goes, I know that you're going to make it to the of myself. And I go, thank you, sir. You know, and he goes, uh, I know that you're going to make it to the NHL. And I'd look down literally my arms. I don't have a muscle on me. I got no chest. I'm like, I would,

I'd be, I would be embarrassed to play in a skins game, like in basket, you know, in basketball. So I'd be the guy, I'd be like, I'm on the shirts,

you know, like it's now I'm drafted to the NHL and this guy's telling me you're going to play in the NHL and I'm like I don't know buddy is all I'm thinking to myself right so I show up at Western Michigan a couple months later and you got to take your shirt off for the physicals and my coach is standing there he looks at me and he goes what what's going on here you know and I'm like what he goes uh we got some work to do with you. So everyone's getting ready for the fitness test and they're all working the weights, right? They're warming up with 135 on the bar. And I've never left. I've never done bench press. I'm

drafted to the NHL. I'm 19 years old. I've been going into my first year of college and I've never done a bench press. And I go, and this looks pretty easy because they're all whipping it up back and forth, warming up with it. Right? So I so I get down there Mike Eastwood who played the NHL he was a sophomore at the time so he's spotting me and I'm down below that bar and I'm looking up at I go this looks this looks all right so I lift it off the bar I can't get it off my chest to do one rep I get halfway up and it's tilting and you know he, he's grabbing me from, like he's helping me and he lifts it up and I go, I'm embarrassed. Like I want to go home. Like I'm thinking this is not for me.

And to his credit, he says, don't worry, man. That was me last year. You know, and he said, and he was. And if you're going to Western Michigan and you're going to make it to the NHL, there's a good chance you haven't lifted weights before because you're raw. Like you're as raw as you can get. Like everyone's going to the big schools. You go to Western, you got a chance if you haven't worked out before.

So that was my introduction to the weight room. And ironically, your first ever viewing experience for an NHL game was at the Maple Leaf Gardens against Toronto versus the Washington Capitals. And I want to say, was it your girlfriend at the time? Her family had tickets? That was later on. But that was my neighbor's parents that had tickets. But they had two by the bench and they had two up in the second bowl.

And thankfully, you and your buddy got to sit by the benches. And that's what really made you fall in love with the NHL. It was incredible, right? So I'd never heard language like that in my life. So we had literally the two seats right behind the bench. The stink of the players' equipment was off the charts, man. It stunk so bad, but it was so good, right? So we watched the first period there.

The deal was the parents would watch the second period there and then we would come back for the third okay we watched the first i mean these guys were animals the language was like off the charts i was so excited i was like 10 or 12 years old you know and i'm like this is this is crazy this is great so now we go up for the second period we're way up top and And I keep watching his parents. I'm like, I can't wait to get back down there. So we meet up with them on the way back down. They go, no, no. They're like, you guys are not going back there. Nope. So we stopped, we stopped in their tracks. We had to watch the third period up there. So that was my first

introduction to watching NHL hockey. And then my dad would give me for Christmas a pair of tickets to a Leaf game and I would stare at that pair of tickets for hours a day waiting for that day to get the chance to go watch the Leafs play and then when you say Western Michigan you know being a guy who wasn't highly recruited going there who can't lift from talking to guys who play college and I did that's where you get strong right over those three four years you must have all of a sudden changed completely into a man right like without western michigan you don't know if you're ever playing in the show right yeah no i that i would never have made the nhl if i didn't go to college and you know your first year you're playing limited

minutes you're you know you're lucky if you get a little penalty kill time your role is different so you learn as a freshman how to play the game that might serve you well later on if you're not as great as every player in the NHL. Second year, power play. Third year, you're doing it all. Fourth year, I wanted to leave every year, to be honest with you, but they weren't taking it. You didn't like the school.

But I just didn't like it. But my coach was great. He allowed me to have the freedom to just get by. Yeah. He didn't, like, push me to get your grade. You know, he just let me be me, which was – Just stay eligible, Keith. And that was it.

And then by my senior year, they came out with a new rule that they said, we weren't going to do – we weren't going to accumulate your grade point average until the end of the year. Okay? We're on a semester system at Western Michigan. So I said, I'm done with school. I can guarantee you that. So I went to like three classes the first semester. I got like a point.

I want to say I got a.60. Delta tau chi. This is a fact. The second semester, I got like a.43, right? So I leave. Not all scholastic. No. I could probably have done it.

I just never like to read. So it's a problem when you're in college. I literally would get – I was on a scholarship, of course. And you had a book allowance, right? They would give you your books. So I would go to the bookstore. I would pick up my books. They'd be in a bag.

I'd bring them back to the apartment. I'd set them in the closet. And at the end of the semester, I would bring the bag back, and the books have never left them. And I got through four years of college without ever opening a textbook. Ever. Ever. What did you major in?

I started, this is good, I started in phys ed. I thought we'd run around the gym. And then I realized it's all health and education. Body. So I pivoted quickly, and I went into communications. There you go. And this is the best part of that story is I thought it would be easy, you know, and then they say, everybody, this is your chance.

Get up and talk in front of the class. And I froze. I mean, I mean, I sweated. I sweat through my shirt and I just was so uncomfortable. Even just, this was just like an easy assignment. Tell us about yourself. And I just, I froze. So now about three weeks later, we have a field trip to a TV station,

and we're all going to get to give the news. So I'm in line, and I'm thinking, I don't know, man. I don't know if I want to do this. So it's just a simple project. I got so nervous. By the time I got to the front of the line, I looped back to the back of the line and left. I didn't want to speak in front of people.

Come on. Yep, swear to God. So I dropped out of communications, and I went to sociology. Oh, that's my major. Beautiful subject. Beautiful thing, right? Study of humans. All you do is outright the professor to the point where he gets so bored,

he gives you a seat. That's all I did. What a model. Yeah, so I stayed in sociology. But ironically, right, the communication thing was something. Which is bizarre because of what your career has transpired to be. Yeah. You seem like such a natural.

I would have never guessed that. When I first retired from the NHL and I started at ESPN, I was brutal. Really? And I was one of those guys that ripped everybody. Like I'd watch the guys. It's way harder than people think. Oh, yeah. And I'd be like, look at that idiot.

You know, like, he's terrible. And, you know, just like everyone does for me, right? It's the way it works. But I was one of those guys. So now I'm on there, and I know I'm horrible, right? So it makes it worse. I'm really starting to sweat. Yeah.

You know, I got this ill-fitting suit on. I gained, like, 50 pounds, like, three months after I retired. I ate everything in sight. I'm just like a monster on there, right? The job of the hut. I'm looking in there. You see yourself on TV. It's horrible, man.

Hearing your voice. Just everything. It's true. And then they're saying, well, be yourself, right? Be yourself. Am I that bad? Have fun out there. Have fun.

The worst thing you can ever tell anybody on TV that's just starting after they've done a couple segments is, hey, just have fun out there. Because you're telling the guy you're stiff as a board. Yeah, you suck right now. Yeah, you're terrible right now. And somehow you've got to make me look good that I hired you, right? So that was my first experience at ESPN. And John Buccigas, who wrote the book, was real helpful to me. Darren Pang came in and saved me and just made me a little more comfortable.

I was not ready to do national TV at that time. And luckily, I came back to do flyer stuff, just in a real, you know, like biz started with Arizona. With the Coyotes. Yeah, you're in a more relaxed environment. It's just less intimidating. Oh, even just doing radio for the coyotes i was intimidated and i'll never forget we were uh you're trying to be positive when you're involved with a team and rick talking to just started head coach i don't think we won a game

the first like 10 or 11 games and we were playing the flyers things haven't changed in phoenix shut the fuck up we're up two nothing in philly and then they pulled a goalie and they end up scoring two with the goalie pulled. And when they scored their second on the radio, I just froze up. Yeah, you were like, I got nothing. I felt like the biggest loser and idiot because I had nothing to say. Those moments were happening a lot in the first probably half a season I started, and it's hard. But then once you stick with it and you break through it,

then you find your rhythm, it slowly gets better. But there there's a very very empty feeling when you first start that job in knowing that you like we know we're not doing good yeah we know it yeah and and that's why i always thank bob heat house because he took me under his wing and always made me feel comfortable and he was the guy saying you know just have fun and like being supportive as opposed to like yeah you froze up and you sounded like shit biz is like you want me to be myself do you know what i talk about yeah yeah i'm like heater that could go the complete opposite way where we're both out of here jonesy this isn't insane we haven't even gotten to your career yet but throughout all career yeah pro career excuse me you're right because this is the current career

doing what we're doing right now but you in college you didn't work out you didn't really do much you get to the pros you must have thought oh my god these guys are even bigger stronger than when they when i got to western michigan couldn't bench 135 yeah it's funny the uh the summer before i went to washington's camp at the end of my senior year i literally was playing about 30 minutes a night at Western Michigan, and I was burned out. Like I was done. When the season ended, I was done. And I took a month off, month off turned into six weeks, six weeks turned into two months, and all of a sudden training camp was around the corner. And I literally took the summer off. Now I've just signed this contract. I've got a signing bonus of $75,000.

This is a great story. So I get $75,000. I've never really had a paycheck before. Like when I went home in the summers in Canada, if you're a college student, they don't take taxes out of your check. So I worked for the school board. I cut grass. I had this mower I used to drive around town.

I'd race other cars with. That was the gas card. He used the gas card from junior to senior. I was in Brantford, so Gretz would drive by in his Mercedes, and I'd be riding my lawnmower. I'm going to get you, man. This guy's not playing in the show. So anyway, so I get this money, 75 grand signing bonus.

This is the best. So I take the trainer on the hockey team with me to the car dealership. I'm going to get a fancy car because I want everybody to know that I'm going to make it. So I go back to Brantford and put this sports car. But I take the trainer, Hap Zarzor, his name was. He went on to become the trainer at Duke Football. So a little tiny guy and i go hey hap come with the car dealer okay so we go in i go that looks like a great car it was

a mitsubishi 3000 vr4 twin turbo and i'm like that's that's got my name what color it was red bright red had a fin on the back what a donkey you were were. Oh, it's terrible. So I don't know how to drive stick shift, right? So I said to Hap, hey, you drive it. So the trainer drives the car. I'm sitting in the back seat watching him drive it. I go, how is it? He goes, it's great. I go, we'll take it.

I'd never even driven the car before I took it. Like Rocky II when he pulls out. So I got this red sports car. This is the best. I go to Vegas with my buddies. First time I've ever been to Vegas. And we're having this great time. I brought a few bucks with it from the signing bonus, whatever I had left.

Remember, they give you the whole 75 grand. I don't know. I'm not thinking about taxes. I can tell you that. So I spend the whole thing. I think I lost 30 grand in Vegas, right? I don't have any. That's the first money I've ever had in my life I spend at all.

So it actually played into why I made the team. So anyway, so I go to Washington now I have to borrow money off my sister to get to training camp because I got no money. And someone's telling me, you got to pay taxes. I don't know. This is terrible. So I've put myself in such a position that I got to make the team, man. Like I got to find a way to make this team no matter what it takes. So I should have done the work in the summer, did not, to the point where I showed up at training camp. My first day I'm standing there, Michael Pavanca, Peter Bondra there,

and they go, hey, kid, can you grab my sticks there? And I'm like, that's kind of a strange request. So I walk over and I get this Pavanka sticks. I bring them over to him and he says thank you. And I walk away, don't think anything of it. The next week or so goes by and I'm sitting there on the bench with him during a preseason game and Bondra's laughing. He looks over at me.

I go, what? He goes, remember when Pivo asked you to get his sticks? I go, yeah, what? He goes, he thought you were the equipment guy. Because you got this milk bag body. And, you know, you're in camp. I'd be the first guy off the ice to practice, and I'd leave. And they're like, where's this guy going?

Like, who is this guy? I was like, no one. Number 41. He's not supposed to be here, right? And I'd jump on the trainer's table. I'd get on the massage table, and all the veterans are going, what's this guy doing? No, you were drunk. Sounds better than drinking.

It didn't affect me at all that there was this pecking order of how it was going to work. I'm like, yeah, I'm here. I'm going to be on it. And that's back in the day when it was like, you eat last. That stuff used to really matter. how it was going to work. I'm like, yeah, I'm here. And that's back in the day when it was like you eat last. That stuff used to really matter. Do you think that they embraced the fact that you were so naive to it all that they could sense that you were completely naive to it all? Did they ever end up talking to you about it?

Oh, yeah. So now I'm trying to make the team. I got no money, right? I'm making $35,000 in the minors, and I'm $140,000 in the NHL, and I just spent $75,000. So I'm like, what am I going to do, man? So I'm looking around. This tough guy was out of the lineup.

This guy, and I told you guys earlier, I'd never had a fight in my life, ever. So I'm thinking I better start. I better try it, right? So Darren Banks is playing for Boston. He's trying out there, big tough guy, right? And he's skating around. I'm chirping at guy, right? And he's skating around. I'm chirping at him. He thinks I'm joking around.

He's like, this guy's not going to fight me. Thank God he thought that because I didn't. And Steve Leach was on the Bruins at that time. And that was my first ever fight. And he punched me in the head hard, man. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if this is going to work for me. But I'm like, I got to make this team.

I need the money. I don't know if this is going to work for me, but I'm like, I got to make this team. I need the money. Like, I got to pay back my sister. So that's the only reason that I ever started to fight in my first year in the NHL. And you were not in debt. Sorry. If you hadn't spent it, you don't think you're going out and fighting that game? No. I think I would have figured it out eventually, but it was so much my incentive to get there was and at the time i feel like organization that was the

extra factor as to why they would keep you 100 it's crazy to think about if i didn't do that i was a scorer in college you know i had 30 goals my last year at western michigan but i was like i gotta do something different here. That's going to give me a chance to make it. I'm number 41. Right? So I made a good impression in camp and then got sent down, had another argument with David Poyle where he's never seen anything like this in his life. I, he said, I was the last cut. I was the last guy cut and all the guys were practicing. We shared the same practice rink as the Capitals, the Skipjacks. So they're right across from you.

You're looking at them, right? And I had a good preseason. So the first game of the season was going to be against the Toronto Maple Leafs, the only meeting of the year that the Capitals would be in Toronto. I told you earlier, Leaf fan. Everything I did was a Maple Leaf fan. I just want that game. I don't know if I can play in the NHL, but if I'm going to play one game and fail,

I want that game to be in Toronto if I never make it. So I have this argument, not argument, but just this convincing conversation with David Poyle about why I made the team. I want to be on this team. I don't know if I made the team. This is just what I'm saying because I want to play that one game. So I leave the meeting, and David tells others later, I hear that he couldn't believe he's never had a meeting with a player that wanted it so bad.

But I just wanted to show my buddies that I made it to the NHL. It really wasn't that complicated, right? I just want to swear so some kid behind the glass like me can go running up and talk about it. Exactly. So I got sent down, and I'm thinking, man, I want to swear so some kid behind the glass like me can go running up and talk about it. Exactly. So I got sent down, and I'm thinking, man, I want to get back up there quick because riding that bus wasn't fun. I played the first eight games of the season with the Skipjacks. And Friday night game, Saturday night game, busing in between, and then busing to an afternoon game on Sunday.

I'm like, I'm 23. My window's small. I got to do this. What are your stats in those eight? I had... I think you were a point a game. Yeah, what was it? You had seven goals, three assists.

Oh. Okay. So the last game that I played for the Skipjacks, for Barry Trotz, we lost 10-8 against the Utica Devils. Okay? I had two power play goals in the game and I was minus 7.

Hey, but you had a great one after. If you're in the shower, just tell that to you. Minus 7. Okay? The last goal goes in the net and the buzzer went before the empty netter to make it 10-8 and the buzzer went. the empty netter to make it 10-8 and the buzzer went. I'm still upset about it. So I'm chasing after the ref.

The game's over and I'm like yelling at him and Barry Trotz grabs me and goes what are you doing? I go I'm effing minus 7. Right? That's the only thing that's on my mind. So that was the last... Isn't that to the coach? Yes.

Jonesy, you're a fucking idiot. Oh, yeah. You were fucking out of your mind. I'm crazy about it, right? So he's like, whatever. So the next day, I had two roommates that I lived with in the minors, Rob Leask and Trevor Halverson. And Trevor Halverson was a first-round pick of the Caps.

And so they're my roommates. I have the loft upstairs in this apartment i knew the capitals had injuries and i'm thinking i i'm getting close man i'm arguing with barry trotz every day i gotta get called up let's i just i i don't know why i was so people not just crazy about it right every time i'd score i'd be looking at them it's time you know it's time so so this is comedy so now i'm So I'm listening. I had a yellow Walkman. Remember those things?

I'm up in the loft because I don't want my roommates to know that I'm such a geek, that I'm listening to the Capitals game hoping that somebody gets hurt or something bad happens that I'm going to get the call, right? And they're playing in Vancouver, so it's a late game. So I'm listening on the radio, my Walkman, and all of a sudden I hear Kevin Miller gets a five-minute major Spear. And I knew he was kind of in the doghouse, you know, and I'm like, that's good. Cause he was just traded for Dino Cicerelli the year before and wasn't playing well. And I'm like, oh, this is all right. So that's good. And then I hear Mark

Hunter just leaves the game, Dale Hunter's brother. He's, he blocked a shot. I'm like, oh, this is good. This is good. Still good. Still have my Walkman on, right? So all of a sudden, my roommate's tapping me on the shoulder. I'm listening to the Capitals game when my roommate tasks me. He goes, hey, it's David Poyle. He's on the phone for you. As I'm listening to them play

a game in Vancouver, he says, I go, hello? He goes, hey, it's David Poyle. Keith, we want you at the airport tomorrow at BWI in Baltimore. You've got a 7 a.m. flight to Calgary. And I'm like, yes. Right? This is amazing to me.

I can't believe it. So I'm so excited. I don't fall. I don't sleep the whole night. Right? I get to the airport. I go through the check-in. I look over.

There's Steve Konowalczyk. I'm like, damn, he's going too, right? I'm like, am I in or is he in? It's like bugging me the whole way on the plane. I fly all the way to Calgary. We get there, and Terry Murray's the coach, and he's like, brings us both in. He's like, we're not sure if you guys are going to be playing tonight or not.

I'm like, well, what's that all about? He goes, we just don't know. Go get a rest. I haven't slept on. I'm not going to sleep now. So go back to the hotel. Still don't know if we're in the lineup or not. Get to the game. And he tells us when we arrive, you're both in, you're both playing tonight. And I'm like, this journey to get here is here, right so i get my uh jersey on and i'm like so i i i'm so excited to do this right so i look in the mirror in calgary the little small rink there and i'm looking in the mirror and i'm just like i can't believe this is gonna happen right step on the ice warm up can't

they can make a pass drop it was embarrassing game starts shift, go up to hit Theo Fleury. He elbows me, breaks my tooth in half. First shift in the NHL. And I'm like, I don't know about this, man. Maybe this isn't for me, right? And it really hurt. So I just remember chasing around like Gary Roberts and all these guys that would just kill me, right? But I just wanted it so bad.

And you're chirping, right? Chirping all night. That was always part of it um and then oh really so no it was non-stop every shift trying to scrum it up in front of the net yeah and a lot of it again was just to try to gain an advantage and make myself more important than just being an average player and all of that i played better when i had fear and it pushed me to another level. It's something to play for. Like the money to your sister.

That's it. It was all about, like, I have to stay here, right? Same here. I played scared my whole NHL career. Yeah, and it's not a great feeling. It's not a comfortable feeling, but it brings something out of you. Well, it's the saying, like, you're getting too comfortable. It's just, I certainly got that way. But you have such an incredible memory. You remember all these. It's the saying, like, you're getting too comfortable. It's just – I certainly got that way. But you have such an incredible memory.

You remember all these. It's great. I wish I had that talent. But you've got to tell me about the first goal because I'm sure it was something you'll never forget. Yeah, well, it's true. It was a game in Indianapolis. It was a neutral site game. They had those?

Yes, we used to play two a year. Trying to grow a crowd in Indy? Yeah. So they would try to make – we used to play two a year. Trying to grow a crowd in Indy? Yeah. So they would try to make – we went to Halifax before. They'd play 84 games in the regular season, not 82. So they would add these two games, more revenue, and try to build the game, right? So it's in Indianapolis. I've never been back.

It's the only time I've ever been to Indianapolis. And my puck actually has like the neutral zone, neutral game emblem rather than the team's emblem that you would have if you scored, you know, in Toronto, Maple Leaf, whatever. So it was my third game in the NHL, I think. I think it was November 3rd, if I'm not mistaken. But anyway, we're playing the Chicago Blackhawks. And in the warm-ups, I have a couple buddies come from college

because Western Michigan is not that far away from Indianapolis, and I'm skating around in the warm-up, no helmet on. I'm looking at myself in the glass thinking I got it going on, like this is cool, and skating around. And my buddy yells over the glass, Jonesy! And as he does that, I look up, I step on a puck, and I go headfirst into the boards.

And I'm like, oh, my God, this night's not going to go well, man. So I get up. I'm okay. And my first shift of the game, I score. And it's against Eddie Belfort. It's a scramble. It's a terrible goal. But it's like it happened.

It happened, man. It happened. And I battled him with Dirk Graham all night that night. He was a mean bastard. He was tough. As a coach, guys said he was mean too. Yes, he was. And he was mean to play against.

But I had to do that, right? So I ended up getting a goal and two assists in that game. I think we won four to two or something like that. So I'm like, this is awesome, right? This is like my third game. And then I ended up getting nine points in my first ten games. And I remember thinking to myself, like, is this really the NHL? I'm thinking, this isn't that hard.

Like, I can do this, right? Who were you playing with? I was playing with Dale Hunter and Pat Elnick. And, you know, we were the third line. We got the good matchups. He was getting a little older by then? He was, but he was still a great player. And Dale was really influential in my career.

Great advice. I took his brother's job. Mark hurt himself, broke his thumb, and that's how I got the job. When he left that game in Van? Yep. And Dale took me under his wing and just like he said, you can play. You know, he just told me, we got a two-second rule. If someone's on top of me, you got to be there in two seconds to make sure.

You know, that was the deal. And we both played both played you know a pesky style yeah and neither of us really wanted to be fighting heavyweights so we would just make sure if there was one out there we would do enough to distract them and then and dale told me a great story which i'll share with anyone that's listening when i looked a little hesitant to fight one night he he said, the next day we're at dinner, I'm sitting at his kitchen table at his house, and he goes, hey, Jonesy, I go, what? He goes, you want to stay in this league? You want to stay here?

I go, yeah, I do, really badly. He goes, well, here, I want to tell you something. If somebody walked into this kitchen and there's 500 grand on the table, if they grab the money and walk out, what are you going to do? Are you going to fight them for it, or are you going to let them walk out?

I said, I'm going to fight them for it. He goes, good, start fighting. And that was the advice that I had. What a veteran to sit there and tell a guy who, and he could probably tell you wanted it, and he's like, you know, it's not an easy conversation to have with somebody. No. Something you never forgot.

No, and again, I took his brother. I was taking his brother's job. He was still sent down to Baltimore. At that point in Mark's career, he'd already won a Stanley Cup. He had a great career. And all of a sudden, he's in the minors, and this 23-year-old college kid out of nowhere is playing with his brother on the same line.

Getting massages before me. Yeah, exactly. He's a business, you know. Yeah, he's the best. Dale Hunter was very influential. Which arena was it in Indianapolis, by the way? That's a great question. I really don't know.

It had to be with Indiana Racers. I think Gretz played for them. Because when we just had our street hockey tournament in Detroit, the Covington, Kentucky, this crew actually went and got the boards from the – oh, sorry, the camera. From the Gretzky Arena, the place where he played in Indianapolis. So I was wondering if it was the same arena. I'm sure it is. It was right downtown.

I think it was Marr, maybe Marr Arena, maybe. It rings a bell, but, I mean, when you're playing, you show up. Yeah, exactly. Where's the locker room? Where's my equipment? Let's go. Were guys like hacking darts when you showed up? Yeah.

You had Ally or Freddie on the team? Yeah, I played with Al. The planet? Al would smoke on the plane. This is when we flew charter flights, right? The three rows that could smoke. Yes. Row 14, right?

Yep. And the back rows would be able to smoke, and Al would smoke on the plane and was just an incredible guy. I mean, because I was a rookie. And Al was a storyteller. Tough style. Tough storyteller, but have your back and pay for everything. Really?

Like, extremely generous guy. If we went to dinner, he'd know that you didn't have a lot. You know, he'd buy. He'd always carried, like, a wad of cash in his front pocket and would just give it to everybody. He didn't like any clicks on the team. He was always like, you know, we do this together. You know, he was just an awesome and a character beyond belief.

He'd light his cigarettes after the game of the blowtorch. He'd break off the filter. He'd break the filter off and he'd smoke it. The all-star game, he brought like one stick with him. They asked him, why did you do that? You know, he said like well one stick with him they asked him why did you do that you know he said well my others would get jealous if i have too many you know it's like some of the craziest wwe with the hair too well al was like very conscientious of his hair so we were playing this is unbelievable we're playing against the devils and the long boards

there that extend inside the zone on the Devils bench, the glass, the barrier there before they put the curve in there, he gets hit and he's riding the end of the boards on his pants, right? And then he runs into the stanchion with his helmet, his head. His helmet flies off, lands about 10 feet away, right? This guy wore his helmet in the warm-up so people wouldn't see that he was going bald. Like during the national anthem, he would wear his helmet. So the helmet's 10 feet away, and we're all watching.

How's this going to play out, right? So he's down on all fours, and he crawls 10 feet, right? He gets his helmet, and he puts it on his head and collapses. Then he decided that you needed to come. Ten feet he went and collapsed. It was one of the best moments ever. Imagine that being on video now. We could ever get that.

It's got to be rough. He didn't always, though, because the best picture of him online, he's in warm-ups, you can tell, with no bucket. With the little tail. He's got the flow at the back, but then he's got the circle ball, little hair up top. Yeah. To know he cared that much, he must fuck. He looks like a Rorschach test. He literally would show up for practice about five minutes before it started.

Throw all his gear on. He was a natural. He'd throw his gear on, he'd jump on the ice, and he was unbelievable. Really fast, right? His shot, he was the guy, right? 105. 105. But he was fast, right?

He could skate all day. So he raced in Washington at our practice rink. He raced a female speed skater. They're going to have this race, Battle of the Sexes race or something back in the day. And he races her. And he loses by like three full trips around the rink. That's like he gets passed three times. And he's a smoker, right?

He was good for one lap. His little feet were going as fast as he could. And it was unbelievable. But he was open and willing to do anything that he was asked to do. So he was another phenomenal teammate that we played with. And they had Kevin Hatcher back in Washington in those days, Al Iafredi, and Sylvain Cote. And all three defensemen scored over 20 goals in that season.

First time ever? Yeah, it had to be. Hatcher had 34. Iafredi had 34. Kevin Hatcher had 34 goals one year. Yep. We'll have to look it up because that's what my memory is. And I afraid he had 20-something and Cote had over 20.

And Callie Johansson had 12. That was our defense. The only other guy that pops to my mind we haven't talked about from Washington was Berube. Yeah, he's the best. And you play with him a little bit because you were a bottom six, right? Yeah, I play with him. And he did more to defend me than any person in the world.

I mean, this guy is one of my – he's my best buddy. He's the best. So I remember when he got traded to the Caps as one of the first TV broadcasts of the draft. It's on TSN, and I'm sitting at home in Brantford, and I'm like, we could use a little more protection around here. It's one of my second years, right? You call Poyle. My list was getting a little short, right?

Yeah, you call Poyle. You're like, hey, we need some protection. I'm going to put you on the phone with my agent, Dave. Yeah, so I look at David Poyle's, and I see, I read his lips, Craig Berubi. He's talking to the guy from Calgary, right? The GM, and I'm like, yeah, do it, do it, man. So all of a sudden, they announced,

Capitals have a trade to announce. They've acquired Craig Berubi from the Calgary Flames. And I'm like, that guy's going to be my best friend. And, I mean, as soon as you meet Craig Berube, he is the consummate teammate. We watched hockey together all the time, Dale Hunter, myself, and Chief. We sat around, you know, grabbing a few chicken wings, drinking beer. And all we did was watch other games. We'd watch the Sabres a lot when Ray, May, and Barnaby

would be fighting all the time, and I'd be telling Chief, those guys are going to kick your ass. Everything was just about the game, and it was a beautiful time in all of our lives because that's what we did. Like best buddies busting balls? Yeah, all the time. And he would be betting me he's going to score more goals than I am that year.

I got him a suspension for 10 games once playing the Rangers. Nick Kiprios, I was due up. I'm on the bench. I got one leg over. Bondra and Pavanka, my line mates, are already on the ice. And Kiprios kind of clipped Bondra. So I say, Chief, you're up. Right?

In the middle of the shift. So he gets up. He jumps on the ice. He skates over to Kiprios and attacks him. Right? He gets a 10-game suspension for leaving the bench. Oh, yeah. To get in an altercation.

Shoney, the coach, gets fined. And they're trying to get him for a suspension as well. It cost Berube like $25,000 and the thing, but the caps ended up back in those days you could make those things okay. You could even things up, not in the salary cap era, right? But that was what Chief would do. Anything that the team needed, he did, and that's why he's had a great career and is doing such a great job as a coach as well

you must have chatted with him since like watching him win the stanley cup like i saw i saw you have the poster with him raising the cup in your in your man cave the outside near the pool like just a great friend forever yeah he is and that was that was for me as close as i came to winning the stanley cup i was there covering it obviously i'm i was being partial but i wanted that i wanted to see him win that thing. And when he did, it was a great thing. It was the only time I've ever gone downstairs in the locker room after a Stanley Cup championship.

And just to congratulate him, it was on the road, so there was very few people there. And just share a Bud Light there and talk about that experience. That was a great thing. Very, very great moment for him. Oh, go ahead, Ari. I don't know if you have one more. I was going to say closest to the Stanley Cup might be a good segue

to the Colorado trade unless you had something else to watch. Well, I wanted to hear about how the trade went down because I read that story in the book as well. Of course, knowing you more now through the first half of this interview, I understand why it went down the way it went down. So getting traded from the Avalanche to Flyers? Yes, when you were sick, where you were very ill for a few weeks. Oh, so that's the Capitals.

That's when I got traded from the Caps to the Avalanche. Well, that's what I want to hear about. So Shoney and I were fighting again because I wasn't playing well. One day I'm laying down on the ice after practice. I'm counting the lights up in the ceiling. I'm just laying on the ice doing like snow angels, you know, and he comes over, what's wrong now? And I go, I said, I'm exhausted.

He goes, that's it. You're going to the Mayo Clinic. Well, I didn't feel that exhausted, but okay. So I went down the street to get blood work taken. It wasn't the Mayo Clinic. It was like the local guy that could stick a needle in your arm. So I get that done. I'm waiting for these results.

I am feeling pretty run down, right? So it's on my mind. I'm thinking, I hope something's not really wrong. I didn't think there was, but maybe. And I don't hear anything. A week goes by. I get to the game against the Islanders on the road. I've got a toothbrush in my suit jacket.

That's all I brought. It's a one-night trip. And I wasn't great, big on packing stuff, and I wasn't a clothes horse. I wore whatever I had, and I would wear it, you know, for a few weeks in a row. Turn your underwear inside out. Yeah, whatever it took, you know.

Leave the underwear there in the laundry bag, get it clean, take the laundry, right? You know, all the old tricks. So I'm there, and I'm wondering. I keep asking the trainer, staying long. I go, did you get the results yet? No, no, we didn't. So the game's getting ready to start.

I'm in the dressing room getting ready for the pregame skate. I go on the ice. I come back off the ice after the skate, and I've got one skate on. One's getting sharpened, and a shoney walks in. He goes, hey, I step in my office. I'm like, this is bizarre at this time. And I'm just getting ready for the game. I'm sitting beside Huntsman and I look over at him and he's, he just didn't know what was happening.

So I walk with one skate on, one off. I walk in unbalanced as usual. And he sits me down and I'm thinking to myself, I'm going, he must have got the results and they're bad. That's all I'm thinking. This is bad. Like my heart is like dropped right in my stomach. So I sits down, he looks across, I look at him, he goes, I've got some terrible news for you. And I'm like, oh my God, it's happening. Like there's something, yeah, I'm dying. Right. So he's like, uh, you've been traded. And I go, oh, thank God. And he's like, you're taking this a lot better than I thought you would, right?

I'm like, oh, this is amazing. To who? And he's like, you're traded to the Colorado Avalanche. I go, oh, even better, right? He's like, I can't. I thought you'd be a little more upset. I go, no, no, I'm not upset. I said, I love you as a person, but as a coach, I can't. I thought you'd be a little more upset. I go, no, no, I'm not upset. I said, I love you as a person, but as a coach, I had enough.

And he just laughed. So I go, who did I get traded for? We can't tell you. I go, well, I want to know who I got traded for. I want to see what value I have. I've been fighting my whole career thinking that I'm a better player than I am. Tell me who I got traded for. So I can't tell you. So I call my wife, who was my fiance at that time, Laura. And I'm like, hey, I couldn't get a hold of her because this is like payphone times. And prior to that, I had no money, right?

And so the team's like, go upstairs in the arena, like walking around where the crowd is, in the arena, like walking around where the crowd is, and call the avalanche, right? I go, for what? They go, well, you've got to get on a flight. You're leaving. So all the fans are in the corridor walking around. I've got my hockey bag on my shoulder. I've got three sticks in my hand, and I have a quarter that I borrowed from the equipment guy to call the avalanche.

I call Pierre Lacroix, and I'm like, hi, this is Keith Jones. Hey, how are you doing? We got a flight for you out of JFK. I'm thinking, where is JFK? Like, I wasn't paying attention to anything. He goes, well, you need to take a taxi. You need to go there, get the plane. So I go back downstairs, and I'm like, does anybody have any money I can borrow?

The teams are already on the ice. They're playing. The game started. So the trainer gave me like 50 bucks to pay the cabbie took the cab to the airport walked up they're like here's your ticket and i look at i said this says coach and they're like uh yeah no you don't know that's a mistake this is uh first class right and they're like going to the avalanche so they're like no no it's going no no it's first class okay so it put me in first class so i'm sitting there i'm stopping in atlanta i still don sitting there. I'm stopping in Atlanta.

I still don't know who I'm traded for. That's all that's on my mind now. Who do I get traded for? So I'm having a cocktail on the plane. I land in Atlanta. I haven't got a hold of my fiance or wife now to tell her I've just been traded. So we've been traded. So I get there and land in Atlanta.

I call her and I go, hey, I've been traded. She goes, yeah, I know. I go, well, how'd you know? She goes, I saw it on the bottom line. My dad saw it on ESPN2 on the bottom line. I go, well, who did I get traded for? She goes, Chris Simon and somebody named Curtis LeCision. I go, well, that's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah, those guys. And a first rounder went with me, right? So Simon, toughest guy in the league at that time, or one of them. And LeCision was an alternate captain. They just won the Stanley Cup. I'm like, that's pretty good. I like that. So I don't know if the Avalanche liked it by the end of it.

But anyway, I land in Atlanta. So I get on the plane, land a flight to L.A., show up there next morning. It's an afternoon game at 1 o'clock. I don't even know what time I got there. So I go down to breakfast. They just won the cup. They've got Patrick Wath, Joe Sackick, Peter Forsberg, Adam

Foote, Valerie Kaminsky, Adam Deadmarsh, Scott Young, Mike Ricci. I mean, this team's awesome, man. So I walk in. They're all eating breakfast. It's the first time I've ever been traded, and I'm really excited. So I come in there. I sit down, and they're all talking. I go, don't worry, boys, I'm here.

Cup number two is on the way. And they just, like, start laughing. And you're immediately welcomed into the locker room because I had bothered so many guys in that team for a long time, especially when they were in Quebec, Forsberg included. So they were like, all right, this jerk's on our side. And then they, I think, came to like me as a person. Well, they had two now.

They had you and Claude Lemieux. Yeah, and Pepe was there, too, and he was hurt at the time. So anyway, it was just an incredible start. I had three game-winning goals in the first four games and had my best season ever as far as goal scoring went and all the rest of that. But it was awesome. They – what?

Go ahead. I'll have to. No, I'm just thinking of that team. 96, they win it. And Lemieux buries Draper from behind. So then you get there the next year. Detroit goes back-to-back. What did that playoff end like?

Because one of them, Biz and I were saying on the way out, was seven games, seven nothing, right? Yeah. Was that that year? Was that later? So it could have been that year. So what happened with me is the Detroit thing was an incredible story. So I arrive.

I'm not part of that, right, because I wasn't there. So you're thrown into it. You get in the midst of it. You're thrown into it. And the first three games against Detroit that year, we beat them every time. And they were tough, hard-fought games. The Red Wings were a tougher team than us because Simon was gone.

Now I'm not fighting those. I'm not fighting Brennan Shanahan. They'd love to fight me, but I'm not the guy to go against. We lost that element. So we beat them the first three. Great games. So many talented players on both teams. The fourth and final meeting of the season was that March 27th game.

And before, all the hype is coming in, right? But it was the same hype for every game. But now it's the last game of the regular season. We're in first. We're ahead of them. We've owned them all year. We go up 4-1 in the game. 4-1 we're winning.

And then all hell breaks loose. And it was the most well-timed attack that I've ever seen. And I don't think Detroit wins the Cup that year. I think we do. So many things happened in that fight. Patrick Waugh hurt his back. Huey Krupp hurt his back. We had some injuries that came in there and all the tough guys like everyone says the red wings russian five won the cup for they were great players obviously but they won

the cup because of shanahan biggest reason was brand Brandon Shanahan. His toughness and his ability to score and get goals, and Darren McCarty and Joey Cole. That's why they won those cups. Those guys were so tough that they put them over the top without them. That planned attack was by McCarty who jumped Claude Lemieux. Patrick Waugh ended up coming out in his defense. I think Shanahan ended up grabbing Waugh. All-time brawler's line.

Every time you see these clips come out, it's all this stuff and that rivalry. Why did it take until that last game of the season? Because that's Scotty Bowman, man. He said, let's wait. We're going to wait to get them all year. If you're going to do it, do it where it's going to change things.

Like, why do it in the first game of the regular season? We're going to get you back. We're going to wait. And then it's gone, right? So they gained so much momentum from that. We had injuries. And then we started the playoffs. We started with the Blackhawks.

And in the fifth game of that series, I blew my knee out. That's when my injury happened. So I was not there playing when the conference finals rolled around against Detroit. And I think it was a 4-2 series win, if I remember correctly. But I was kind of, you know, when you're not playing, you're hurting. It's the memories of that stuff that don't stick with me like they did when you were involved in it.

So that was a disappointing end to that season after having a great year in Colorado. So in that game, you went down 4-1. They ended up crawling back after. And then, of all people, Darren McCarty ended up scoring the OT winner. Yep. Wins it in overtime 6-5. So that's where the history of the Red Wings turnaround happened.

Changed. They were a great team before that. They got swept by the Devils, right? Bingo, 95, yeah. The Avalanche and and Dallas Stars, and Detroit were miles ahead of everybody in the league at that time. Those three teams in the West. No one in the East.

No one was going to come close, and the Flyers found that out when they were swept four straight. Say, Jonesy, prepping for this interview, I was shocked when I pulled up the box from that game and saw no Pims for you and two for Sack again. He go, because they happen to be on the ice at that time. It's a great question. So Mark Crawford, after the game, he's like,

the next day he comes up to me. No, on the bench, actually. This is awesome. So he's like, everything's happening, right? And he looks and he goes, hey, to me, since if McCarty gets one more fight, he's out of the game. Like, go ahead, right? I go, no, no, that's not accurate.

I said he only got a double minor the first time. And he did. He did. Right, right. It was a double minor. So that was the biggest thing. He should have been out of the game by the end of it because they gave him a double minor for jumping claw of the mule

and he should have got the instigator, all of it, and thrown out. But he stayed in. and like you said, it was kind of like the turnaround. The momentum had completely changed. I'll be honest about that situation. As crazy of things I've done in my career, I knew we were doing the wrong thing. I knew that we did not need to fight that team

because we weren't built to beat them up. I played on tough teams in Washington, especially with Ruby, Alan May. I mean, there were seven or eight guys ahead of me to fight. On the avalanche, I'm looking going, geez, there's like four of us that are in the same category here. Like it was an entirely different team, and it was a big mistake. And I had a conversation with Mark Crawford about it after.

I said, that's, you know, we did the wrong thing yeah we should have let claude get beat up you take a few punches okay and let's move on but the fact that our guys were so competitive and just they were just and they were invested in it probably more than i was because i wasn't there the year before exactly yeah so it's i had a different perspective on uh what about um i feel like the most interesting man in the world, Peter Forsberg. So many people wonder about him, but he's not in the public eye. But when he was on, he was one of the greatest players ever, and you witnessed that right in the prime.

Yeah, I played on the same line as Peter because Claude was out. So I was my line mate when I arrived there. I've never, I mean, I had so many tap-ins, it was crazy. And he was such a great guy, and he loved when I would get other players going on the opposition. He knew that I'd have his back. I had to fight that Todd Simpson once, a guy in Calgary, because he hit Peter. And I jumped in there and I got killed, right?

But that's what you want to do. I always tell, like, the tough guy on the other team, you want to fight me, hit our best player. I'll be right – I'm going to – I've got to fight you. I'm not going to fight you because you're asking me to fight you. That ain't happening. But you do something, I'm going to fight you and I'm going to lose, but it's okay.

And that's the way, and Peter always liked that part of it. We were great friends. He came to Brantford with me once. We landed in Toronto. He goes, where do you live around here? I go, yeah, just down the road. He goes, let's go. And we went and stayed the night, my hometown.

And he went out to the bar, local bars, Woody's Pub and Grub. And there's Peter Forsberg and these guys. And couldn't believe that they would see him in that environment, right? So friendly to everyone. Just the best. He's just a great guy. I roomed with Joe Sackick and played with Joe. We were on the second line.

There was Adam Deadmarsh, myself, and, of course, Joe in the middle. And then we had Forsberg at center on the top line with Valerie Kaminsky, Claude Lemieux. We had Mike Ricci, Scott Young, and Rene Corbet. I mean, this team is incredible. The one thing through the book that surprised me was how you said that Patrick Waugh was far and above the best leader that you'd ever played with and probably the most intense guy you've ever played with.

He was. Joe was a great captain because he allowed other people to lead as well. And Patrick was one of the best leaders with Dale Hunter, that's another one, that just commanded everyone's attention. If you had a good game, it wasn't that you scored two goals. It was if you did all the little things right, and he recognized it. You could have a game where you didn't have a goal, and he'd come up and he'd go, hey, you had a great game tonight.

And you did. It wasn't bullshit. So you're saying he would be dialed into the whole play all game long? All game. His mind was what separated from everybody else. To a coach, probably. I think he would be dialed into the whole play all game long? All game. His mind was what separated from everybody else. To a coach, probably. Yeah, and I think he would be such a great coach, especially now that he's had experience in the NHL.

He was phenomenal that way. I have the utmost respect for the way that he handled a locker room, penalty kill he was in charge of. He'd bring the guys in and draw stuff up. I'd never seen that from a goaltender. And I know they've pasted a few C's on goalies before in the past, but he was a true captain. And Joe was a great captain because he allowed other people to lead and he didn't have to be the only voice. And that's a great part of

leadership as well. Is that because guys of who they are or how they say what they're saying? Is it a little bit of a combination? It's about how they say it. Like, it's just the fact, you know when you've done something, a small thing really well that helped the team win. Right. Maybe it's a block shot. Maybe it's a simple play along the wall, getting the puck out of the defensive zone. Or maybe it's staying disciplined at a time where you may have retaliated.

He saw all of that. And I hadn't seen that before. Especially from a goalie. From a goalie, right? And I've always felt like I was a smart enough player to know what was needed at a certain time. And he took that to a whole other level. Actually, do you know one part of that ESPN game? Well, the Detroit-Colorado game.

The replay that night. Remember ESPN used to replay the game later that night? They actually edited out the whole fight sequence because I was in college at the time, and we all watched it live. Of course, we didn't know what was going to happen. This was pre-internet, pre-whatever, and we all put the replay on at 3 o'clock in the morning because we were still in college, and they edited the game, and they took that whole fight sequence out of the game,

and they replayed it later that night, which is kind of horrible. That's crazy. Fun fact. All's forgiven. A little RA high at 3 in the morning, fun fact. Yeah, I like it. He actually bet the game, but he forgot who won, so he had to watch it again.

There you go. Boys, I don't know if you want to move to the reason we're here in Philadelphia or if you have any more Colorado questions, but again, it's a shitty one, but you guys had a 3-1 series lead to Edmonton the next season. Well, you guys are still a cup contender. You pull that lead, and you're out in the first round.

I mean, that's the time. Yeah, I have a lot of those memories, actually. Thanks for bringing that up. Well, you've got to go both sides, yeah. I was on three teams, three different organizations that were up 3-1 in a series and lost. Shit. Wow. It happened to me in Washington.

It actually happened. The reason I think it happened is because my first year in Washington, when I started in the minors, I got called up for the playoffs and I knew I wasn't going to get in the lineup and we're just skating every day. Barry Trotz is skating us. And the Capitals are up 3-1 over the Penguins. This is in 92. And I'm like, man, I don't know if I'm enjoying this a whole lot.

Like I'm not really part of the team. I wouldn't mind like this thing ending sometimes so I can go home and enjoy my summer. I'm basically doing a little low five every time the Penguins score. They come all the way back, Pittsburgh, and they win this seven-game opening round series and go on to win the Stanley Cup. That's how close the Capitals were. They're up 3-1. Dino Cicerelli scores four goals in game four.

They win 8-4. They're up 3-1 in the series, heading home. And the Penguins come all the way back, win that in seven, and go on and win the Stanley Cup. Did Mario take over? Yes, he did. And I think they won 1-0 the last game. They had a new scheme.

Anyway, it was amazing to watch. So I'm thinking I hexed myself forever because three, three other times I had it once with the Capitals against the Penguins, uh, they came back in one and then it happened in Colorado. The second time we were up three, one in Edmonton, I had missed a lot of time after my knee injury. So I was not, I was not at a at 100 health and i got ran over by mike greer as well you hit me from behind my shoulder went out i just remember i could barely get out of bed i actually talked to mark crawford going into game seven i'm like crow i don't i'm okay

if you want to use somebody else because i can't move and he's like no i want you in the lineup so i took a stupid penalty in the first period. Edmonton scored on the power play, and now he wishes I wasn't in the lineup. Billy Guerin, right? Yeah, exactly. It's true. It's a fact. And then it happened again with the Flyers.

In that conference final, my last ever playoff series was a 3-1 lead. Devils. Yeah, with us a chance to go to the finals, and the Devils came back and beat us the year that mid-race was hit. And they won it. The Devils won the Cup. So let's go to the trade to Philly because you're in Colorado in a couple years, but how did it all go down when you found out

you were coming here? So my knee never came back at 100%, so we went through a lot of stuff with the islands just trying to get it right. It was never going to be right, but it was good enough to play. So I wasn't shocked that I was going to be traded. I had heard that it was going to happen. We played in Arizona the night before I was traded. I had an A on my sweater. It's the first time in my NHL career I had a letter on my sweater. So I knew I was getting traded the next day. We got to show he's a good leader.

Swear to God. He had an A on my sweater. And so I skated around that night, and we were playing against Rick Tockett, Keith Kachuk, Jeremy Roenick. They were all on the same line, and I was talking to them all night. I don't even worry about you guys. I'm getting traded. Look at, I'm a leader.

I kept telling them, right? They were just like, this guy is nuts. So anyway, the game ends and we're getting on the plane. And always suit and tie, right? I wore my sweat pants and our sweat shirt and a pair of jeans. And I walked on the plane. Everybody's on the suit. And Patrick Watt goes, what are you doing?

I go, don't worry about it. I go, I wore an A tonight. I'm a leader and you guys can follow or not. Right. And it's like, it's just like, I knew it was going to happen. So the next day I'm at the practice rink and I open up the newspaper and I said, Keith Jones traded to the Philadelphia Flyers for Sean Podine. I'm like, really? So no one's told me.

This is a newspaper. So I walk into the practice rink and I go, hey, I've been traded. Hey guys, I've been traded. No, you haven't. I go, what's right here? It's in the paper. No, you haven't been traded. I go, what's right here? I'm reading it. You want to see it? Look, it says right here. No, you haven't been traded. So I go to the training room. I got traded to the Flyers. No, you haven't. I go, well, why is it in the paper? We don't know. So two hours go by.

They're checking all my knee stuff, like x-rays and filly and stuff. It's not official. So I don't know. I'm just sitting there. And so I start getting my equipment on again, like I did against the Islanders when I was traded the first time. So I'm starting to put my gear on, and Patrick Waugh sat beside me. He goes, why do you want to be traded?

I said, Patrick, I don't want to be traded. I've been traded. It's right here in the paper. He's like, I don't think so. I go, no, it's here. So then Johnny Martin, the PR guy, comes down. He's like, Pierre Lacroix wants to see you up in his office. I told you guys I was traded.

So you're probably smiling at Patty and saying, hey, I fucking told you. So I'm thinking Lindros and Leclerc, right? Like I was telling you guys earlier. If I play with Lindros and Leclerc, I'd get a certain number of goals. The David Poyle. So I go up in his office and Pierre Lacroix, I sit down. We traded you the Flyers. Bobby Clark wants to talk to you.

Now, when you hear Bobby Clark wants to talk to you, that's pretty cool, right? So I go in the other room and I'm, hey, Mr. Clark, you know, he's like, hey, Jonesy, we got a game against Florida tonight. We don't need you for that. But we do need you for tomorrow night we play the Devils. And I'm like, you might want to rethink that. And he's like, what? And you go, have you ever seen my stats against the Devils?

He goes, what are you talking about? I go, I played them 23 times. I have no goals. And he's like, what? And he goes, no, I go, I don't know. You might want me to wait a couple more days before I arrive, right? And he just laughs. He goes, no, we need you here for that game.

Get in here. And I played Brodeur so many times when I was with the Capitals, I could never score on him. So I arrived, Roger Nielsen's the coach. I remember flying into Philly, looking down around, going, man, this is cool, another experience, another chance to keep playing. And I was just excited for another chance to put on a different uniform. And I don't know much about the city.

And, you know, 25 years later here I'm still here right so as I pull in talk to Roger Nielsen he goes we're gonna try you with Lindros and the Claire tonight I go what do you mean try me he goes well we'll see how it works I go Rog it's gonna work just fine he's like he's like what and he's like yeah I go yeah just don't worry about it so the game starts and it's like it wasn't working fine for the first two periods. Third period comes around. I end up scoring my first goal ever against Marty Brodeur. Picked up a couple assists along the way.

We beat him 6-1 with this great third-period comeback. I end up getting, I think, 12 points in the first five games playing with Lindros and LeClaire, and everything's great everything's great right oh you're loving it incredible and uh that's the season kind of went like that after because they were struggling at the time they i never practiced like i i they they put a big lounge chair out for me and i was why because the knee was so bad it was shot but it was just and they just thought i was goofy i just tell them i don't worry like i got away with stuff that a normal normal human being would not and i would sit there with a cigar in my mouth during practice they'd all be skating and I'd have the gatorades get the fuck there was a picture in the paper

and it didn't bother guys no because then the guys in the team Rod Brindamore right workout fanatic he'd laugh he would laugh so hard because we were the polar opposite he'd be lifting every weight knowing the mankind and I'd be lying underneath the trainer table, taking a nap, you know, as all this is going on. So it was a real contrast, but had so many great leaders on that team as well. Brenda Moore being one of them, Berube came in, Talkett came in, a lot of these guys, Luke Richardson, a lot of those guys became coaches. We're going to skip to golf quickly. You told us an unbelievable golf story that involves Rick Tockett. Let's hop into that quickly so we don't miss it.

Yeah, so this is post-retirement. And Tock's got a buddy who was a good golfer. And Tock loved to golf. And we would be betting on the course. I'm not a great golfer. But I didn't mind betting a few bucks with a handicap. Why not? So we're playing.

Al Morgani's with us as well. And I'm struggling. I'm all over the woods. And his buddy starts giving it to me verbally during this round. So by the 13th hole, I had enough. And I said, hey, buddy, I'll bet you $1,000 a hole, and I'll play with my putter the rest of the way. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that sounds good to me. I haven't hit a drive all day. Okay? So I grab my putter. rest of the way. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that sounds good to me.

I haven't hit a drive all day. Okay. So I grab my putter. I tee it up. I stand over the ball. I take my swing back and I crush it 250 yards, middle of the fairway. Middle of my only, I hadn't hit the fairway all day. And you've never done this.

Never done this. Never done this. And Al Morgani's like, and I lift my leg up and farted after I hit the shot. Really loud. I'm sure that's fine.

Really loud. And Al Morgani's losing it. So I say to the talk, you're up. I say to talk's buddy, and you ask talk this biz when you see him at TNT. Oh, I'm going.

I said, you're up. You know, so he comes up, this guy been just all down the middle just killing me all day. He slices it so far into the woods that you never find it right i walk up to my next shot it's a par four

hit with my putter in the fairway roll it up tap it up onto the green and i get my first par of the day first par of the day right and this guy's losing it next hole is a par three i it's over water i t up high with my putter i take the shot with the putter 130 yards and i put it at lands on the green on the green this guy's panicking oh this guy puts it in the bunker the next shot i went again i won all five holes again with my putter the guy owed me five grand and i told you beat him? It's the best part. Beat him every hole. I told the guy, just keep it, buddy. You buy dinner tonight. And that was it.

I disowned you, though. Yeah, that's probably more rubbing it in than anything. He didn't even want his money. Just pick up the mail, you know? Yeah, that was it. And talk, we'll laugh. It comes up a lot. It's one of those things.

It's probably 15 years ago that it happened. So you putting your leg up and farting kind of uh reminded me of the story of when you did the roast for rick tocket oh yeah and you got to talk before he went on stage and there was another story with that yeah we would give talk we would always rip talk about that he loved those protein shakes right so he had the farts yeah so i told a couple fart jokes that were funny i wouldn't uh not worth sharing here but anyway i would tell him and then al mor Morgani was also part of this roast. He got me one of those fart machines.

So I stuck it under the podium. So it was talk's turn to come up and talk. And I was about the third speaker. So this is like four later. But everyone obviously remembers the jokes, right? So he's up and he starts talking and I hit the thing, right? And he's like, what? And he's looking in the next,

it had like eight different very variations it was a classic and it kept coming out loud so finally he looks over at me and he's like i'm going to kill you and he really meant it like it was like one of those moments where i'm like yeah he means that so that was the last one but i did get him eight times with that we uh we gotta go back to philly two playoffs. I know you guys come up short, but very eventful. The Stevens hit on Lindros. You had a front row seat to that, you said. I did, and Lindros had just returned for that game.

He had not played in the playoffs. We had a group of guys that really rallied around each other, and it was kind of us against the world. Mark Reckie was on that team, Keith Primo, Rick Tockett, Berube, who I talked about earlier. We just had a really close-knit group. Luke Richardson on the back end kind of managed everything there, and Eric Desjardins was a great player, LeClaire.

It's a long list of talented players on that team. So we just kind of had this thing, we're going to get this done. We were up three games to one, bringing it home. We lose in game five, and Lindros was not available in that game. And that's the one, that was the game we should have won. And we didn't. We played poorly. They beat us easily.

We head back to New Jersey, and Lindros plays for the first time. And he scores the only goal that we scored. He had another goal disallowed that happened right after the buzzer. We end up losing 2-1, if I'm not mistaken. Now we've got a 3-3 series. We're one game away from going to the Stanley Cup. Would have been my first time ever doing it. And now we're playing game seven.

And early in the game, Lindros gets hit by Stevens, and he's out. And it's ugly. I'm sure most people have seen it. And now we've got to play. We're going to play this game. We had played without him for the whole playoffs, and we played a great game. After he left, it was like, I don't know,

our team was a very close-knit group of guys. You know, I played on some really good teams, but this was an interesting group of guys that just got each other. Chris Tarrion, another guy, a real funny guy. And we came back, and we had a great game talk scored the only goal was for us it was a 1-1 game and then with two minutes something left in the game patrick elliott scored the goal uh against brian boucher and uh they beat us two to one and that was it so we came that close to having this what was seemed like it was just going to be this amazing story just fall a little bit short and that was the last playoff game that i ever played in but earlier before that uh earlier series versus pittsburgh five overtimes keith primo i

mean you i i looked it up 37 50 of ice time you had you must have been talking out on a bum knee so yeah and i'm talking i went to the movies the night before in Pittsburgh, right? What did you see? I can't remember. I know we saw Mission Impossible the day before Game 7 against the Devils, and it proved that it was, too. But we did, I can't remember what we saw in Pitt. So, anyway, we come out of the theater, and I'm thinking, I don't play much anymore anyway. Like, I was playing like 12 minutes a night, right?

So, we come out, we locked the, I don't know how we we did this we left the rental car running with the keys in it and locked i don't know how that ever happened because it's like impossible to do so then you could you could do that i guess yeah make it so you can't do that yeah so that's why it happened so talking i was standing outside the front of a car in pittsburgh at the movie theaters and we can't get back to the hotel so we had to wait for a tow truck it came came. So anyway, we get to the game the next night. I'm playing, like I was saying, 12 minutes a night. The game before that everybody wants to forget about, I did have a goal and two assists in helping us come to get the series

to 2-1 on one leg. But anyway, so we get to overtime now. That game sheet is in my basement, actually. It was a gift to everybody on the team. I have no shots on goal, zero block shots, zero hits. It's almost impossible to do what I did in 37 minutes and 50 seconds. You were an absolute non-factor the whole night. But I was on the ice for the goal.

The Keith Primo goal, he scores it. I'm actually on my way to the bench. I never saw the goal to the next day. I was staring right at the bench at center ice, cutting across, looking, and Rick Talk is jumping on the ice for me. And all of a sudden, they're all celebrating. And all I could think is, we're going to get too many men on the ice. Why is everybody leaving the bench?

And sure enough, Primo scored this incredible goal, and we all had a great celebration. Now, that tied the series at 2-2 we were down two nothing lost the first two games at home and won the next two in overtime one being in five overtimes and then won the next two rather easily and beat out the penguins four games to two and then headed to the conference finals against the devils ah great great stuff now i know you're retired uh november we were talking before we interviewed you here about how all your career milestones seem to happen around this time.

You had two trades, and, of course, you retired in November of 2000, and Bobby Clark had a very succinct announcement when you retired. Yeah, so remarkably to me, I had a press conference, and I'm like, I didn't know this was going to happen, right? So we were at the practice rink, and Clark, he sits everybody down. All the players came up, which was great, great teammates. And he sits in front of the microphone. I'm sitting beside him, and all he says, okay, guys, Jonesy's done.

Questions? That was it. That was the end. Everyone gets up. That was the end of my career. So much empathy for your career. Yep, Jonesy's done. They used to play it on the radio. He's got a way with words, eh, Bobby Clark? Oh, he was the best. He career. So much empathy for your career. Yep. Jonesy's done it.

He used to play it on the radio. He's got a way with words, eh, Bobby Clark? Well, he was the best. He didn't need a lot of words from Clark. Just utmost respect for him. But it was something they played on the radio here for weeks after. Jonesy's done. I want to ask more of a generic question.

You played such a great era, the 90s NHL. Of course, the video game explosion happened then. But, you know, Mario was still around. Big E, who was the toughest guy to play against or defend in that era for you? I would say Lindros. I mean, Forsberg and I, when I played with Peter in Colorado, he would say to me, you take the draw. He was the centerman.

Lindros would plow you over every time. He would bull you over. And so I would end up going in there to take these face-offs. And we were talking earlier, I actually fought him when I was playing Like he would bull you over. And so I would end up going in there to take these face-offs. And we were talking earlier, I actually fought him when I was playing for the Capitals against the Flyers in a preseason game. And I went on the ice with two minutes left in the game. I had Alan May on one wing, Craig Berube on the other. And I'm at center.

I never played center. I'm like, why am I out here? So it was Lindros. And Lindros was thinking, I'm not fighting Berube. I'm not fighting May. I'm going to fight this stiff. And I end up having to fight him. He hits me with like 18 rights in a row.

And at the last second, I kind of pop out this little left, and the linesman kind of trips him, and he falls down, and I skate it off the ice. I had my arms in the air at the spectrum like I wanted. It was the best, man. He gets bumped. Oh, yeah, I lost it. My head hurt and everything, but I got one in. Booing you off, guys.

You fucking sandbag. It was great. And then David Poyle, after the game, told me, he said, hey, maybe you should leave your gloves on. And I'm like, yeah, I will. I'd be happy to do that. I appreciate it. Thanks for the support. Did you ever talk to Lindros or give an opinion on if it was nowadays,

maybe he wouldn't have come back then? Did he possibly come back a little earlier? He could have. I mean, I'm sure if you're him. Because he had a few at that time, right? Yeah, and I'm sure if you're him and if you're looking at the run we were on, you don't want to miss that. I know.

Because he'd been a flyer. I know, that's exactly. And the whole playoffs he'd been out. And you're that close to getting the Stanley Cup final. And he skated with you guys, obviously. And he skated, and he's probably feeling okay. But, yeah, in retrospect, it was probably too soon. Did you know that 22 of your 117 goals were game winners?

Almost 20% of your goals were game winners. Yeah, that's fluky, though. I mean, some of them were probably made the game. I'm trying to pump your title here, Jones. Some of them would be a couple late goals. I'll tell you my best game-winning goal story. Playing for the Avalanche, Patrick Waz returned to Montreal. Big night, right?

So this is when you could put money on the board. It didn't go up against the cap. There's $30,000 on the board. $25,000 from Patrick. Mike Keane had a couple grand. The GM had a couple grand. It was like 30 grand. And when I was in Washington, you score the game-winning goal. That's your cash, right? So I'm excited. So I get on the ice and I tip a goal in that made the score. I want to say it made it 3-1 at the time. We extended the lead. Now we're up 5-1. And there's

like eight minutes left Montreal scores now it's 5-2 right I'm sitting on it I got the game winner right if it ends so I've never blocked more shots in my life like I I was diving I would have bit the puck with my mouth if I had to you think you're getting the whole 30k yeah I'm fired I still I so I'm like this is awesome man so buzzer goes game over right so I'm the first one in the room. I'm up there taking the money off. They go, what are you doing? I go, game winning goal, boys.

It's mine. No, it's not. I go, what do you mean? They go, no, this is a team fund. We share it with the team fund. I'm like, that's not how we did it in Washington. They go, that's how we do it here. So I lost out on that.

The next night was my return to Washington. It was like your signing bonus. You'd already spent it. Oh yeah, I was thinking. Between periods, you'd spend it. It was in my mind. I'm like, yes, I'm going to the casino. So the next night is my return to Washington. My first game back, right? Back-to-back

games. So I put a dollar on the board. I go, there you go, boys. You can fight over it after at that team party. Oh, yeah. We lost. Like, everyone's so fired up for Patrick. My first night back.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck Jonesy. We wasted the good surprise on Patty. I'm like, thanks for the help, boys. That is such a good way to end this thing. You got to get going. You got to game. I mean, seriously.

We'll have to cut. I think that we can just do this again. I mean, this is tremendous. Just catch up more. Absolutely tremendous, Jonesy. We can't thank you enough for having us here. It was nice to change it up, boys, the venue and everything. Awesome interview.

Everyone's going to enjoy it. Thanks for the hospitality. Yeah, thank you, guys. Keep up the great work, man. Same to you. Same to you. Man, what an absolute riot that Jonesy is. Thanks for being a great host for us as well, Jonesy,

and also for the Western Conference final shout-out. That was good stuff. All right. Well, before we get to our next segment, here's a word from our friends at Roman. Guys, testosterone affects a lot of aspects of men's fitness and health. From sex drive to muscle and bone mass, the experts believe testosterone plays a huge role in our body's natural function. But men's testosterone starts to deplete with age, which is why it's important you support it early. Roman tea support is meant to help men maintain their body's natural testosterone production with the proprietary supplement formulated by Roman's in-house doctors. Roman tea support contains a blend of six

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and cooked us some delicious Wagyu steaks. So here's a little Billy Garen for you. Enjoy. You mentioned the 96 World Cup. I mean, I know you played the Olympics as well, but was that World Cup in 96 the best tournament you ever played in just the caliber of play? Yeah. That was unbelievable. The series against Canada was the dirtiest, fastest, so skilled hockey. It was like an NHL playoff game, which makes sense, I guess.

Witt said there was a European division. Now, is that true? Did that tournament have games in europe at the beginning yeah i think that's the way it was okay but i do remember like we played we played uh russia and i want to say slovakia at madison square garden so i think they played in there must have been nuts yeah yeah for the russian game it was definitely but that the tournament was great it was just i mean like i said it the games against canada like were definitely the highlights like the other games are were great and good and everything but that was

we could never we could never beat them before and we we we finally did we were finally pushing back and um yeah it was it was a blast we had a we had a bunch of characters on that team too that was that that was a team of beauties just awesome guys so much fun did you sorry all right did you uh you and dougie way play together that tournament was there a connection almost to where edmonton might have said like let's get this guy over no no. I played with and this is kind of how it went for like that tournament. And then, you know, the three Olympics, it was it was Madonna, Kachuk and me. Decent. Yeah, it was good.

You guys are trying to catch up to them all. They punted. They punted me when it was power play time. I cheered them on from the bench for power play. Holly got your spot? Yeah, Holly got it. But Holly, Dougie played with Holly. I forget who else.

Maybe Tony. Tony Amati maybe. But that team was just, every guy on that team was a character. They were just, I mean you know from chelios suitor and you know dougie and like every guy was brian leach and brian leach was unreal that guy like i i had played against him all the time like you know devil's rangers and stuff and then we were we were practicing before the tournament i'm like like holy shit brian leach is way better than i thought he was yeah like

just to be you know who else was great adam deadmarsh i mean his career got cut short but he was he was yeah god he was and a great guy too like you know matthew schneider like all these guys are just absolute beauties. Mike Richter was – I was going to say, you've got to mention Richter when you talk about 96. Ricky was out of his mind that tournament. I mean, was that the best he might have seen a goalie – sorry, at that level?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was the highest level of goaltending I've ever seen. He was – that save on Vincent Dampus was just – I don't know if you guys remember. He was that save on Vincent Dampoose. I don't know if you guys remember. It was just crazy. Did you feel a little bit different after you guys had pulled that off when you would walk around Boston? Did you feel like everybody's name had just grown even bigger

and the game had gotten bigger as far as at least American eyes were concerned? Yeah, I felt like we did something. We knew we did something special because if you look at canada's roster that was a wagon oh they were they were stacked were you partly intimidated or were you like no fuck this we're going in there we're gonna punch him in the jaw we couldn't be that was our like for guys like me and Keith and Darian Hatcher, Kevin Hatcher, Johnny LeClair, Dead Marsh, like, you know, Joel Otto, that was why we were there. We were there to push back. So, yeah, you know, you're a little, you know, I'm like, oh, crap,

I got to go fight Keith Primo again. Get my head pounded in. All right, I'll do it. It's for the country. It's for the country. It's for the country. America. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, man. It was worth the black eyes and all that stuff. It was great. Like, yeah, we knew it. Like, that was – and we had a good feeling for, like, right off the bat. Like, right off the bat. The team got close like that. And we're so close, like a lot of guys.

You mentioned Hall. Was he like the guy in the locker room who was that superstar who really created that levity in the locker room? The one-liners, right? It's just this funny cockiness that just a lot of people can't get away with. He's the best complainer I've ever heard in my life. Oh, God, the bus times. At this? that just a lot of people can't get away with. He's the best complainer I've ever heard in my life. Oh, God, the bus times at this?

And like, God, that's stupid. So kind of Phil Kessel-like. Yeah, they are very much alike. And then Hollywood just, he was so confident. Like he'd walk in the room and be like, all right, I got to start acting like that a little more. Like I ain little more like i gotta be that and then he's scoring the biggest goals too you know and then and chelio say think somebody he came late somebody was getting married in his family i think so he's like i'll be there i'll be there in a couple days i'm like wow that's power. I'm scared. I went a night early on my own dime.

But, yeah, I learned a lot there too because just – first of all, the guys, don't let them fool you. They worked really hard. Like all these superstar players, like they worked hard. But just the confidence that they had was unreal. Did Hull in the locker room joke around at all about people insulting him for the fact that he was Canadian born but then playing for an American team? Was that all talked about through the tournament? No, we knew he made the right choice.

Yeah. Okay, there you go, there you go. Yeah. No, Hull, he's a good friend, and God, he's a good friend. God, he's just so funny. Well, the reason I say that is because the last two games moved back to Canada and you upset him on Canadian soil. So I know that he dealt with a lot of criticism. Oh, fans.

Yeah, they were nasty. Oh, God, they were nasty. Yeah, they were brutal. Like we were walking. We stayed at the Marriott right there, that Chateau Champlain, and we walked over to the Bell Center, and it was like carloads of people like hanging out the windows at us. Screaming at you.

You're going to die. You're going to get your ass kicked. You're going to do this. We're like, oh, my. Wow. This is a big one. you're gonna get your ass kicked you're gonna do this we're like oh my wow this is this is a big one it's like primo on his way into the ring it's always great to break bread within our fellow original trilogy og especially

when he's a beloved two-time cup winner all right next up is a man who needs no introduction we were very appreciative to get an hour or so with him back in Atlanta a few months ago, and he was absolutely incredible. And now enjoy the full interview with one of the greatest passes the NHL has ever seen. Number 99. Guys, we did it. We got the white whale. We got him. We tied him down. We have him hostage here at the Four Seasons in our room.

But on a serious note, Wayne, you're so generous with your time. It's been a pleasure working with you at TNT. And obviously, I also got to thank these guys, because without the Spit and Chicklets podcast, I probably don't even get the chance to get to meet you and now work with you. Folks, the great one. And normally, we start out, Wayne, by listing all the accomplishments, but I think that would waste about half of our time here. get to yeah we only got an hour we'll miss our flights the way it's going will be one lesson about a year and a half

so thank you so much for joining us and the way we do it here on the spit and chicklets podcast is we usually start out all the way at the beginning and how this wonderful career of yours started out and came to be oh my gosh well first of all it's a pleasure to be here I've I'm not great in social media I'm just sort of finding my way but my kids have been watching you guys forever so that's all I hear at home is the spit and chiclet so from their point of view this is a great honor for all of us to be part of it. So I'm excited. For me, you know, I was like everybody else in Canada. You know, it's one of those things. We all started to grow up with a hockey stick in our hand and a pair of skates. And, you know, you start playing because you love it. And I was no different than any other kid that

was in Canada who loved the game. I started playing at a young age. I got a pair of skates from my uncle that were hand-me-downs and didn't look back. The greatest game in the world, and I was lucky enough to have a great passion for it. At what age were you on the pond in the backyard? Was that the first time you ever skated?

Yeah, two and a half, but it wasn't in my backyard. It was actually, there was a river that went through my grandfolk's house just outside of Brantford Air, Ontario, and it went through their backyard, the Nith River, and it would freeze, and that's where I first started skating, but we only went there on weekends because my dad worked at Bell Telephone 8 to 5, so it was Saturdays, Sundays, I would skate all day. And then my dad started taking me to these local parks that had outside rinks. And as my dad says, out of necessity, he built a rink in the backyard so he could stay inside the house and watch me through the kitchen window so he wouldn't freeze all the time.

So about the age of 4, 4 1⁄2, 5, my dad started building a rink in the backyard. I always get a kick because my mom used to say it'd be early december and my dad would say phyllis you got to go over to wolko you got to go get me a sprinkler head and my mom would say you're gonna go get your own sprinkler head they're gonna think i'm a complete idiot asking for a sprinkler head in the middle of the winter so so they used to wait for my dad in December they'd always hold one back for him because they knew he was coming in around early December so he at night he would just turn the sprinkler on and go back and forth and that's how he built the ice rink and I got one quote here it's not God given it's Wally given I'm sure if you know without your old man none of this this would have become possible. No, he was so special, loved hockey, loved kids.

He had two minor hockey tournaments in my hometown, boys and girls. And there would be three days long, I guess, and he would go there and he would sit in the arena from 8 o'clock in the morning until 8 o'clock at night. I went home a few years ago and he was sick and I went to see him. And it was just after Christmas. And I said, look, I'll go to the rink today. I went home a few years ago and he was sick and I went to see him. And it was, it was just after Christmas. And I said, look, I'll go to the rink today. I'll go handle your chores. And he just, he was so sick. He couldn't leave the house. And so I went over the arena and oh my goodness. I said to my brothers, I said, dad did this 10 hours a day. I said, I'm here an hour. I've had enough. It was so funny because as I walked into the arena, this coach, like a seven-year-old team,

he goes, Mr. Gretzky, will you talk to my team before the game? I said, no, I'm the wrong guy. He goes, no, no, no, just go in there and say whatever you want. I said, trust me, I'm the wrong guy for you to speak to your seven-year-olds. I'll get a picture. He goes, no, no, say a few words, whatever you want. And I said, okay. So I went in there and I said, welcome to Brantford. And it's a great city. You're going to love this tournament. And I said,

and remember you're seven. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's how many goals you get. And the coach looked at me and I said, I told you I'm the wrong guy. It's seven years old. Just go have fun. Who cares if you win or lose and I remember we always we had good teams in Brantford we had guys that Greg Stephan who played in the NHL Jimmy Burton was up and down Len Hackborn for a little town of 60,000 people and we'd always play Oshawa in the finals of tournaments and on all Ontario's and we could never beat them they were a better team they were bigger they had more kids to draw from I think Oshawa was like 250,000 people. I remember one day I was like 11 years old. I was driving home after a game and we lost game five in the finals. And I said to my dad,

I said, I just don't understand. We can't beat that team. He goes, that's the best coach hockey team I've ever seen for 11. They play their positions well. And he said, I'll never forget, he said, but there won't be one kid on that team that ever makes Junior A hockey, let alone the NHL, because they have no imagination and no creativity. And years later, five of us were playing Major A, and I remember looking at my dad going, how would he know that when we were all 11 years old? But he a feel for the game and he just said you got to be

creative you got to go out there and be your own person especially 10 11 12 so they were playing systems and instead of just going out there and having fun and and the thing i read about your dad is just how important he was in terms of you learning the skill of thinking the game like the old story if he threw it in the corner and he'd show you where to go where it was gonna end up you know being is that kind of how you remember it yeah and he'd say it's like a pool table you know when you hit the white ball you know the angles and you got to play angles and be creative and get ahead of where the puck's gonna be not where it's been um and you know the game has changed so much from the time when beliveau and leFleur and Bobby Orr and Howe and Messier, Lemieux, they were so creative.

And that comes from being a kid and being a youngster and doing that by throwing a puck on the ice and saying, OK, you go on that team, you go on that team. We'll play four against four and let's have some fun. If you take eight kids to a rink today, the first thing they say to you is, okay, what drills do you want us to do? They don't know how to play pickup. Control breakout. Yeah, it's completely changed. And now I watch the games, it seems to be swaying a little bit back

towards the way it was in the 70s. And I watch Kel McCarr and I watch Hedman. And these guys, there's so much imagination in their game. And they're so different. Fox in New York, you know, people call them Rovers now, but they're not Rovers. They're really good defensemen who happen to be really good with the puck, and they're always in the play.

And it's so nice to see that our game has really climbed to a different level, another level, because these kids, only are they're using their creativity, but they're so talented and they're so strong and they're so smart. And they want to be coached. That's the thing about these kids today. They love being coached. And when I watch games, I watch the Ranger Tampa Bay game, I watch Colorado Edmonton the last couple nights,

two of the best hockey games I've seen in 10 years. And they're just hard, physical, fast, good goaltending, smart players. And it was just fun to see. It was fun to watch. Wayne, you would get booed as a kid by other parents, other teams that you were going against. How did that make you feel as a little kid? And what would your parents tell you to sort of fight through that as a young kid?

You know, it was kind of funny. So when I was five, I made this team. In those days, you tried out, there was one team, they were 10-year-olds. And if you didn't make it, you played basically house league hockey. So I made the team. And I remember the coach came to my house, he wanted a birth certificate, and my dad gave it to him, and he said, well, oh, my God, Walter, I'm sorry, he can't play, he's too young.

So I couldn't play that year. My dad was in this sort of fren God, Walter, I'm sorry, he can't play. He's too young. So I couldn't play that year. My dad was in this sort of frenzy. Okay, do I wait a year or I'm going to take him to Paris, which is a little town, which is, you know, there's AAA, AA. And Paris was kind of a hockey because of the size of the town. And my dad said, you know what, if you go there, you're going to be stuck there forever. You're not going to be able to play in Brantford.

So I didn't play that year, made the team again the next year and I played five years on that team and by the fifth year I remember I play in arenas and I would get booed and I remember looking at my dad thinking wow why am I getting booed yeah the arena's sold out people are in there watching and they're booing. So I'll never forget, I was watching a Hockey Night Canada game, my dad and I, Saturday nights. We used to watch every game. And Bobby Orr was playing in Toronto, and every time he got the puck,

my dad would say, listen to how the people boo. And I remember sitting there, and my dad said, they only boo you because they like you. If they're not booing you, then that means you're not very good. So I used to like when I got booed, because I always remember what my dad said. And what about the white gloves? Sorry.

Yeah, no, that's what I was going to ask. The white gloves are such a legendary tale almost. Your dad had you wear them for a reason? No, it was, you know, every year we would go to this little sports store, Lockington Sporting Goods in Brantford, and I'd get a pair of new gloves because during the year, I would wear those gloves the whole year, and we'd play 70 games in those days, and then I'd be in the backyard with the gloves on.

So after a year, they were worn through, and then what I would do is I would cut them, and I would use them for lacrosse, and so I'd have no palms, and in the summertime, I'd play lacrosse with them. So then every September, we'd go get a new pair of gloves and so that year I was a second year peewee we were trying to get a new pair of gloves and we're looking at all the different gloves and every year and sort of new gloves come out new styles new colors and Brantford was always red white and black and they didn't really have a pair of red white and black black gloves left

because we were always my dad was always the last one to the shop right we were always we got there late put it that way the day of or the night before so really the only pair of gloves they had left was this white pair and i said to my dad yeah i should just wear those and he goes oh you know you you'll have a sort of a dagger on your back and i said i already do already do. And my dad said, yeah, good thinking. And I wore those white gloves. And now every team's wearing white gloves. Yeah, exactly. So I wore them for one year in my second year of Pee Wee.

That's how I got the white gloves. I think you started touching on it on the broadcast. I don't know how much of the story you got through, but you, in fact, got banned from minor hockey at one point one point I'm suspended I have a letter that I'm suspended for life from Canadian minor hockey which is kind of funny I even know the guy who was president at the time who sent the letter I kept the letter my dad kept the letter which is kind of funny because they always say no no no no he's not suspended but I was suspended for life from minor hockey and the ironic thing about it was when I became Wayne Gretzky in the NHL I did so many charity events for minor hockey across Canada

not just Ontario but all across Canada whether it be donating equipment or sticks or raising money or going to dinners or golf tournaments so but every time I'm there I always remind people you know I am suspended for life for minor hockey. Can you guys renege that now? Have I done my due here? I kind of like it. Gives me a one-up on the one. Not the great one, the bad boy of hockey. You know, it's funny.

When I went there, kids had done it for years. And so I went there to live with legal guardians. And there was a kid who came from the other direction i think coberg a kid named brian roerbeck him and i both went went to court we lost and i was tired i was done of all the fighting and so i had three decisions uh go home which i wasn't going to do play high school hockey for upper canada college and for people who know me my my high school skills were good enough to play, go to Upper Canada College. And the hockey wasn't at that time as good or play junior B.

And so I went to a junior B practice. My dad and I, coach sat us down. He said, you can play here. I'm going to play you. And my dad was like, listen, if you're not going to play him, he's just going to sit on the bench. It's a wasted year. You know, we're not expecting anything. He goes, no, no, no.

If he plays and practices hard, he's going to play. And I ended up playing that year, played two years of Junior B, and stayed in Toronto, and the rest is history. And the rare event that you maybe had an off night with, like, two and one instead of seven and three. Would your father, like, give you shit at all? Would he get on you? Or was he always pretty laid back in terms of how you played?

My dad was tough. He was a hands-on father I remember the end of my fifth year as a 10 year old we were done the year and I was one of those kids that when hockey was done I threw my equipment downstairs couldn't wait to play baseball and lacrosse I just I loved it as much or more than hockey and the coach came over to our house I'll never forget we finished on a Saturday or Sunday and it was like Wednesday and he came over and he said you know there's a team in Milton which which is now the John Tonelli Arena they would like to play us an exhibition game on Saturday they think they can sell the arena out and they're going to raise money for minor hockey and but we can't go if Wayne doesn't play so my dad said well what do you think I said oh yeah I'll play so we drive down there and this arena

is packed and it's one of those old old arenas you know wooden seats and it's not that big and they jammed about 800 people in there and it's loud and crazy we get beat eight to one and we're riding in the car home and it's about an hour drive and i'm sitting there and my dad turns around he goes what do you think and i go well what he goes the game i go i don't know if we lost eight one who cares he goes he almost stopped the car he goes what do you mean who cares he goes don't know why, but these people all come to watch you play hockey. If you don't freaking get your shit together every night, you have to perform every single game. And I remember sitting there going, I didn't even want to play today. I had my baseball glove on, Dad.

And I learned a good lesson right then and there that, you know, okay, I have to perform. a good lesson right then and there that you know okay I have to perform so it was a great lesson for me because playing in the Oilers were a little bit of a traveling road show we played a lot of exhibition games in like San Antonio and that time Dallas and Phoenix didn't have NHL teams and we'd sell out and of course they want to see myself and Messi and coffee and we all would play and I treated that game pretty much the exact same way as I treat game one of the Stanley Cup playoffs so it was a great lesson for me but on the other side of things he was very sincere there'd be games where I didn't play well or in my mind I didn't think I'd play well and

he'd say you know that was one of your best games tonight I remember I got three goals and three assists one game he said I don't know what you're so happy about that was a horrible game so he had this whole reverse psychology thing right but Glenn Saylor was a pretty much a genius and he knew this and I can remember we'd be playing at Edmonton we'd be tied 1-1 with Calgary or Winnipeg and go to that city for game three. And I'd come out walking out for the morning skate and I'd look up and my mom and dad would be sitting there. I'd turn to Paul Coffey, I'd go, well, I guess Slass doesn't think I'm playing very good right now. Because he always knew if my mom and dad, yeah, if I wasn't playing good,

he always flew my mom and dad in, right? And I'd be going, okay, I guess I better get going here. So Glenn had it figured out real quick that I seemed to be more motivated when my dad was sitting in the stands. I texted Jonesy before the interview, and he said about 95% of your time, at least through minor hockey, was spent on the pond. And he also said that you trained quite a bit with a tennis ball. What was the significance of the tennis ball?

You know, in 72, when the Russians come over to play in the Summit Series, they came over and we were so intrigued by the things that they were doing and, you know, the different sort of sequences of their power play and how they would go up the ice and then if they didn't see anything, they didn't dump it in, they'd come back and regroup. And so their puck possession was really something

we hadn't really seen other than guys like Bobby Orr. And so when I was in the backyard and I'd be doing drills, he had these pylons set up and he'd put sticks on the ice and he'd have me make passes over the stick to make sure they land properly and backhand passes. He would have me do it with tennis balls and he would say, listen, if you can handle a tennis ball on the ice because it's so bouncy, then you're going to be able to handle a puck so much easier.

So I did 90% of the drills I did were always with tennis balls. And, you know, I used to sit there and think, okay, and now I look back at it and go, wow, my dad was so ahead of his time. He was so smart. And, you know, obviously, I watch these kids today, the stuff that they do, the one-on-one drills and through the pylons and through pucks. I mean, I can't do that. Going behind the net and lifting the puck up and throwing it in the net. Those are things that those kids practice now every day, and good for them. I just, you know, I probably can't do it.

Wayne, as a kid, you always played against older opponents. I think you were 14 playing against 20-year-olds. When did guys start taking shots at you on the ice, starting to get real physical with you? So, I had this agent, Gus Bedali. When I went to Toronto at 14, of course, when you go to Toronto, everybody's got to have an agent,

right? So, I got an agent. I don't know why, but anyways, but he was a wonderful man and he was very good friends with our family. As a matter of fact, the second year I played junior, Gordy's youngest son, Murray, moved to Toronto and friends with our family. As a matter of fact, the second year I played junior, Gordy's youngest son, Murray, moved to Toronto and played on our team, and Murray lived with him and his family,

and just a really tremendous young man. So Gus used to say to me all the time, listen, I have all these guys in the Junior A hockey, I have guys in the NHL, I have guys in the WHA, and I'll tell you this honestly, Bantam hockey is rougher than Junior B. Junior B is rougher than Junior A, and Junior A is rougher than WHA, and WHA is rougher than the NHL.

And I used to think, wow, really? And as I went along, I really found that out. There becomes a respect factor for each other as athletes, right, especially when you get to the NHL. Look, it's physical and it's hard but guys know that guy has a family he's got kids he's got a wife they don't they're not trying to hurt people there's too much respect in the game so i guess what i'm saying the higher you go the the more levels you play at the more respect the players have for each other and so it's physical and it's

hard and you better have your head up but it's not as bantam hockey was much dirtier than playing major a hockey i'll tell you that and what year so you you better have your head up, but it's not as – Bantam hockey was much dirtier than playing Major A hockey, I'll tell you that. And what year – so you wanted number nine, but it wasn't available. What year was that, and that's when 99 became your number? So Sault Ste. Marie, I played two years of Junior B in Toronto. I wore number nine for obvious reasons, Gordy. And that second year, Murray came to our team, and we had 11 16-year-olds on the Junior B team.

I think 10 of them made Major A. We lost in the Ontario finals to Stratford, which we got slammed pretty good, but we were a young group of kids. We were a midget team. And I said to Murray, I said, Listen, Murray, your dad wore number 9. I'll switch my number to 16.

You can have number 9. He goes, No, he goes no no no no Wayne keep number nine he goes this you know I want to be a doctor this is my last year of hockey and I'm going to enjoy it and so we had a great relationship he we used to get on the bus and he had books and binders and he was such a great student went on to be a great doctor and he'd say to me every time we got on the bus Wayne Wayne, where's your books? I'm like, oh my God, I never took books on the road. So one day I got on the bus and I had like four books and I sat down beside Murray and he goes, oh my God, Wayne, you got some books today? I said, yeah. He goes, let me see. What do you got? Math, English, what do you got? I go,

Gordie Howe, how to play hockey. Gordie Howe, hockey my way. I said, you want to be a doctor? I want to be a hockey player. He just started laughing so hard. So anyway, I got drafted by the Sioux, and I'm up there. And I got off to a really good start. In the first six games, I had like 21 points or something, and I was playing really well. And I didn't like my number.

I think I was wearing number 19. And I went into the coach, or 14, might have been 14. I went into the coach, and I said, listen, can I switch wearing number 19. And I went into the coach, or 14, might have been 14. I went into the coach and I said, listen, can I switch my number? Because I got some guts because I was playing pretty good. He goes, yeah, yeah, what number do you want? I go, he goes, you want this number or that number? I go, no, no. And he's getting frustrated because the number I wanted was number 16,

but Arthur Rutland, who went on to play in Vancouver, wore 16 the year before. And I'm not going to take his number, nor did he want to give it up. And Muzz got mad at me. The coach said, he goes, Jesus Christ, why don't you just wear two nines? And I went, okay. No way. And that's how the nine-nine, everybody thinks it's this mystery. And it was just sort of, why don't you wear two nines?

And I'm like, yeah, good idea. I'll wear two nines. And nobody had high numbers then, really, right? One guy, Espo did it in New York the year before. He wore 77. And I remember everybody thinking, God, that's a silly number, right? Like, if you went to training camp and they gave you a number of 42, you know you're not staying on the team.

Au contraire. I had 67 and somehow made it, man. And we used to sit there and go, just give me a number between 1 and 29. You didn't want 30 either. 30 was a bad number too. So you wanted something between 2 and 29, and you had a chance. So that's silly as it sounds.

So people don't know this. So I go to Indianapolis, and I wasn't ready for Indianapolis. Nelson Scalpania signed me. I was a 17-year-old kid going to a city that knew nothing about hockey. signed me. I was a 17 year old kid going to a city that knew nothing about hockey. Nobody knew who I was. I remember I went to, they had me go to a mall to sign autographs and I stood there and talked to people for three hours because nobody came around. Nobody

knew what it was. I had a pile of pictures and I'm like, I couldn't even, finally I said to the guy, can I just go home? And so I left. And then they pulled their team. All my buddies are at just go home. And then they fall to the team. All my buddies are at Steak and Shake. I'm going to go meet them. So I left. So anyway, I wasn't ready for it, and they weren't ready for me.

And Nelson called me and said, look, I'm going to trade you to either Winnipeg or Edmonton. Call your agent. You tell me where you want to go. And I was like, oh, okay. So I phoned Gus, and I said, hey, said hey Gus and he said this was a matter of fact he goes Edmonton's got a bigger arena they have a better chance to get in the NHL because of their arena tell them you want to go to Edmonton so I was like okay and then he goes and the owner owns a car dealership maybe I'll give you a free car so I'm like perfect I get a car and maybe we're going to the NHL so I get to Edon, and Sather took me under his wing.

I lived with him and his wife, and at the time, two kids were five and seven, Shannon and Justin. I lived there for two months with them. He goes, I want you living with me, and so I did that. The first game, he called me in his office, and he said, look, one day you're going to be captain of this team. We're going to go in the NHL. We're going to go in the NHL. We're going to win the Stanley Cup.

And I'm thinking, geez, I went skipping out of that office, right? And he goes, but we're going to get rid of this number. I don't want you wearing 99. And my heart sank, and I went, oh, my gosh, okay. Well, I'm not going to argue. The guy just traded for me, right? And I'm 17, and by that time, I'm just surviving trying to hang in the league. So that night we played.

We played against Winnipeg. I'll never forget. I got a goal and two assists. We won 4-3 in overtime. And for whatever reason, I got some courage. And I was never confrontational ever with coaches. I'm like, okay, I had a good game. I'm going in.

I go, Glenn, can I have 99 back? And he goes, yeah. So I played one pro game without number 99. It was my very first game on Amazon. To this day, we're trying to figure out, I think it was number 26 I wore, but we can't really get any. Back in those days, we were only drawing about 8,000 people

and there was no TV. So I don't even know. I think it was number 26 I wore. Was it true at the time that there was no tv so i i don't even know i think it was number 26 i would was it true at the time that there was an offer to play a backgammon game to get your rights as a player is that a complete urban legend i i don't know there's there's so many stories out there nelson and peter say that's not true okay um bobby hall was wooing me we'd played in winnipeg and uh i think my sixth game, because I played, I think I played eight games.

So it was about sixth or seventh game, and the stick boy came running over to me after the game. He goes, hey, Wayne, Mr. Hall wants to meet you, and he wants to take you for dinner. I said, of course. So Mr. Hall invites you for dinner after a game, right? You go to dinner. I'm in.

And so we go to dinner, and Bobby's telling me, you know, I'm going to make sure you get traded to Winnipeg. You're coming here. I want you on my team. You remind me of Alfie Nielsen, who was my center. You can prolong my career two or three years. I want you here. And I'm sitting there, and you're 17 years old,

and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm coming to Winnipeg, right? And what happened was, the bottom line was, Edmonton wanted Driscoll and Eddie Neal. They wanted a tough guy, and they wanted a goalie to go with Dave Dryden, who was their number one goalie, but a little bit older. And so I was kind of a throw-in in that deal. Winnipeg didn't want Driscoll and Mio. And Rudy Pellis at the time, who was the general manager, told Bobby Hull that I couldn't play pro. I was too small and I'm not trading for him. So Winnipeg basically backed out of the deal and I ended up in Edmonton. And like I said, I really was the third notch in that trade I if Driscoll and

Neil weren't part of that trade I don't know if Sather and Pockington would have traded for me nobody really knew me I'd played one game against the Edmonton others and that night I got two goals so Sather knew I had something but at the end of the day I was really kind of a throwing in that deal which was fine by me. I loved going to Edmonton. I remember I was so excited about going there, and I remember sitting with Eddie and Peter, and they were devastated because they loved Indy,

and they'd been there a couple years, and it's a great city, and they're both from Ontario. They're close to home. And it was a big change for all of us once we got to Edmonton, but I loved every minute of it. I got to be friends with Bill Flett and Ace Bailey and Paul Schmier and Dave Dryden, really good guys. So were you guys actually on a plane not knowing where you were going at some point, or is that just a myth, a myth?

No, that's true. Okay. We had to make a stop. I think we had to stop in Minnie. We were on this little eight-seater jet. I'll never forget. We kind of crammed in because, you know because we had to pack a lot of stuff. So we had a hockey equipment, we had clothes,

and there's not a lot of room in that little Learjet, right? Sticks on the floor. I remember Eddie and Peter were so mad. They were sitting there, and the pilot came back and said, Hey, who's paying for this? No, I'm not old enough. I don't have a credit card because I'm not old enough to have one, right? So I go, I don't know. I don't have no, I got no money. And he goes, well, you have

my credit card. It's got a $600 limit. And the pilot goes, I'll take it. I said, we're in trouble. They want that $600. I said, we're in trouble, guys. So we landed in Minnesota and the pilot comes back on the plane. He goes, we're going to Edmont we land in minnesota and the pilot comes back on the plane he goes we're going to edmonton and so they got the deal finalized somewhere in that hour flight from indy to mini uh and then when we got there the oilers reimbursed the pilots and ripped up kid eddie's uh receipt so poor eddie's like i got a 600 dollar uh limit do i get the air miles still trust me which is playing in edmonton we got a lot of air miles which is wild so the greatest player to ever play was never technically drafted to the nhl

and you were not eligible for the calder oh is that you that's oh nice rick talk that's wayne's uh everybody that's that's as hockey as it gets right there. Tell Rick Talkett we're busy. Yeah, I never got drafted. You know, it was interesting because when we went into the NHL, each WHA team was allowed to protect two players. And this is really something ironic. So Winnipeg, I think Winnipeg protected Preston and, or no, Morris Lukowich and somebody else. And Quebec had Riel Cloutier and I think Hartford had Mark Howe. Anyway, each team had two players. And Saylor was torn between, he wanted to build a team like the

Winnipeg Jets of the WHA. So he had this kid, Bent Gustafson, that he was really high on. He loved him. And Bent only played a little bit at the end, came over from Sweden. So he protected me and him. And Saylor was torn because we had a kid, Dave Langevin, who had just really come out of nowhere and excelled and became the best defenseman in the WHA the last year of existence. And the end, he decided to go with more of a flow-free wheeling team. And we protected him. And of course, the Islanders took Langevin, which really was a heartache for us because Langevin was such a good player. And then the NHL stepped in and made a ruling that somehow we got Gustafsson the wrong way. And they awarded him to Washington. So we

went in the NHL. We were the only team in the four cities that only had one player, and I was the guy. And we went on to win all the Cups and all the other teams that didn't. But I think we surprised teams at how fast we sort of improved as a group. We were a young group. My goodness. But Sather's philosophy was, I'm going to play these young guys,

and that's fine, I'm going to let them learn how to make mistakes and how to get better. He was a great coach. But more importantly, he wanted true professionals around these guys. So he got guys like Colin Campbell, Ron Chipperfield, Dave Dryden, just consummate pros who worked hard and understood their place in this organization, which was going to be, I'm going to teach these guys, but one day I'm going to be moved out. Paul Coffey's going to play here and Kevin Lowe's going to do this.

And that's exactly what happened. But those guys were so unselfish. this and that's exactly what happened but those guys were so unselfish and then we had uh the the real our godfather of the organization was a guy named lee fogelin and lee was sort of the he was everything to our team we he was so well respected in our locker room so well loved i remember one time he was sitting across from me he used to sit across from me in our locker room. So well loved. I remember one time he was sitting across from me. He used to sit across from me in the locker room when he was going like this. And he's holding his jaw. And I go, Foggy, you all right?

He goes, oh, I got an abscessed tooth. And I go, Foggy, go to the dentist. I said, we're 22 points in first place. It's like February. You know, we're good. No, no, no. I can't miss a game. And he took a coat hanger and he straightened it out.

And he took it and he put it up into the tooth and he knocked the filling out and all the blood came gushing down all over his shirt and he goes, okay, I'm good now. And I said, and I'm not. I can't play tonight. So he ended up being our guy. And so I remember he came into Edmonton.

He got traded to buffalo after i think the second or third cup anyway he goes to buffalo and he was an edmonton guy his family lived there his wife and kids stayed when he went to buffalo hard-working blue collar carpenter you know built houses and all the he would build the the equipment racks for the trainers that they would put on wheels, and they'd take them on the road. Foggy was one of the first guys to build those, right? Wow.

So he comes in the morning skate, and he can hardly walk, and I said, Foggy, you okay? He goes, no, this is my last game. I go, what do you mean it's your last game? He goes, no, no, I've got to have surgery on my knee, but tonight's my 400th game, and I've got to play tonight. And in those days, the way the union worked, you got like an insurance policy after you played 400 NHL games. I believe it was like $250,000 that you got at the age of 55.

And he goes, no, no, I got to play this game. And you can hardly walk, right? And so we're sitting there, Mark and I and Kevin and Paul, we're sitting before warm-up, and I and paul were sitting before warm up and i say hey you guys fogey's got a bad leg so tonight when you get the puck on the left side everybody throw the puck to the right side we're not going down the left side the whole game nobody's going near them so all the guys were like yeah yeah yeah so we're up like four nothing guys are get the puck and they throw it across the ice and finally say there's going what is going on here we told him nobody

wants to go around fogey and he played that game on one leg he retired after that game stayed in edmonton and retired from hockey but he had so much respect nobody went near him so a true warrior like this is the guy who really taught you guys not even a question yeah he was and he was such a professional never missed a practice never missed missed a game, so unselfish. And Sather, when he built the team, he said, I'm going to build this with guys who have character, guys like Colin Campbell and Lee Fogelin, Dave Dryden, and on and on, and Ron Chipperfield, Blair McDonald. Those guys all sort of passed the torch to us to not necessarily how to win,

but how to be a professional athlete show up every day and practice hard show up for games and be ready to play and that got passed on to us and that's say their success came quicker probably than a lot of people thought but a lot of that had to do with the people he put around the young guys uh speaking of toughness is it true when you first turned pro that you were going to go no helmet? But Walter said absolutely not. So in those days, right, the training camp and guys would say, hey, take your helmet off. I mean, that was kind of. Like, what are you doing, kind of?

What are you wearing that for? Yeah, you should take your helmet off. I mean, I remember we had this kid named Dennis Sobchuk, who was a WHA signee in the 70s out of, I think, Regina or Saskatoon. Great player. And he jumped to the WHA, or he would have been a first pick overall in the NHL at that time. And Sabi, we're sitting there, and I go up for, we were doing an inter-squad game,

and my dad had driven down, it was a Saturday afternoon, and he had driven down from Brantford. And I'm skating around in the warm-up, and I play my first shift, and I'm sitting on the bench, and my dad comes running down, and he's banging on the glass. And I turn around, and he goes, get your goddamn helmet on. Okay, so I go in the locker room and say to the guys, my dad says I can't play if I don't wear a helmet.

So Dennis Objock comes over to me and goes, Wayne, look, wear this helmet, this Jofa helmet. This is what I wear. My first year, I didn't play with a helmet, and then one of the guys said, here, wear this. He said, it's like not wearing a helmet. I'm like, okay. So I put the helmet on, and it was like, it was a joke.

I mean, like, I mean. It was paper mocked there. Yeah. There's no reason to even wear it, right? So I put it on, and I'm like, wow, okay. So my helmet and my number were just kind of myths, like somebody threw them at me, right? Yeah, there's no reason to even wear it, right? So I put it on, and I'm like, wow, okay. So my helmet and my number were just kind of myths, like somebody threw them at me, right? And it was like, how did you get that helmet?

Did you study it? I'm like, no, no. My dad told me I had to wear a helmet. So when I went out for the second and third period, my dad was happy, and I kept wearing that helmet the rest of my career. Yeah, because it's one of them is on display at your bar in Toronto, and it's like a peanut shell.

There's no foam in it or anything. It like it's awful decorative you know if my kids were skateboarding because i'm a big believer if you're gonna skateboard or rollerblade you wear elbow pads gloves a helmet and my kids tried to put that helmet on to go on a skateboard i'd strangle them i'd be like no no no no that's not a. That's not a helmet. You're getting a helmet on. As simple as that. How different was the play going from the WHA to the NHL? Was it more physical, more skilled? What was the difference like, Wayne? So I tell people this all the time.

I'm lucky. I got that one year, right? The NHL was way better than the WHA. But what the WHA had, we had seven teams in the league. Ten guys on each team could play in the NHL. So it was better than the American League level, but not as good as the NHL level. So that year for me was so important as far as me being ready to play in the NHL. I don't think that first year I would have had the success that I had had I come out of junior hockey.

So from my point of view, I have nothing but respect for that league the what they tried to do the players who were in it it just they didn't have the depth that the NHL the the league of the NHL had and then I think it was your second year in the NHL I'm looking that's when I think Anderson came Kevin Lowe and then Messier was there and Curry came like that training camp it must have been almost shocking like oh my god the talent we've added is so amazing now like we have a true wagon on our hands you know it's so funny because we didn't look at it that way like we we were all kids we were like we're all in survival mode like we better play good and practice harder we're gonna going to be in the minors. Like, we're not going to be on this team, right? So Messier was 19.

I was 19. Coffey was 19. Kevin Lowe was 19. Curry was 19. Anderson. And it just went on and on. Then we drafted Grant Fuhrer. I remember sitting at the draft and Barry Frazier ran the Oilers draft and Glenn would sit there and he gave total.

The great thing about Glenn, if he gave you responsibility you did it it's your job so Barry Frazier was the head scout and I remember sitting there and everybody said who are you going to take in this pick and I think it was seventh or eighth pick and Barry said well as far as I'm concerned the greatest goalie in the draft is right there and we're taking a goalie and I said Glenn we're taking a goalie he goes yeah Barry says we're taking a goalie and And I said, Glenn, we're taking a goalie? He goes, yeah, Barry says we're taking a goalie. And that's kind of how the organization worked. Do your job, right? Trusted him. And trusted him.

And so we drafted Grant Fehrer and we had a young Andy Moog. And all of a sudden we have all these young guys and we're all looking around going, oh, my God, we're young. Glenn was always funny because he'd have a Christmas party and a Christmas skate. And we had no rules. We had one rule in the Oilers, don't embarrass the organization. That was the only rule Glenn had.

There was no curfew. There was no, it's just, and that was kind of it, right? But he had one philosophy. The team Christmas party, you always had to bring a date, right? I don't want 10 guys over at the bar around the Christmas tree, you guys telling stories everybody this is the organization's gone the trainers the staff so all the guys would fly their mothers in because we're all like 19 20 right so betty coffee would be there

phyllis gretzky jesse lowe but say they're loved that he was like no no that's fine and so you know you have the christmas skate right and you go out there and all the kids are out there and so we have our first christmas skate and there's like three kids because we had 18 guys who are under 20 right so say there goes okay this is bs next year we're we're gonna go we're gonna get a charity thing and so I think it was big brothers uh Glennie Anderson hooked up with and the next year Andy said I got some kids coming and I went out in the ice Andy you didn't say you're bringing the whole town to Tasquin there was 550 kids on the ice nobody could move so we had to find a we had to sort of even things out right but no it was a great group of guys and Glenn was like, like I said, he was so far ahead of his time in a sense that, you know,

teams would go into New York and they'd stay in Long Island and say, okay, we're not staying in the city. And Glenn would go into New York. We'd stay in New York City. We'd bus out and play the Islanders. We'd bus to Jersey and play the Jersey. We'd bus to Philly. And we'd stay in Manhattan.

Glenn was like, you guys got to learn how to be men, how to act, how to be proper, and we're going to stay right there, and that's what we did. No kids' gloves. Almost just figure it out, guys. Yeah, and like I said, one rule. We go to training camp. I remember him sitting there, and he'd go, okay, we're 65 guys here,

and I'd like to bullshit you guys but there's one job open just you know you go to training coach would say okay there's every job's up for glenn we go i i can't bs you guys there's one job open i don't know if it's going to be a checker a grinder a goal scorer fighter. You do your job in this training camp and maybe we'll find a spot for you. And that's kind of what he lived by. So I remember one year we had drafted this kid, Odelein, and he was a really good player. Lyle Odelein's brother, Selmar. And he was on the brink of making our team as an 18-year-old. And I think that year we'd just won our second cup. And the coaches and the scouts and the GM, they'd sit up top, right, and we'd scrimmage for two hours, you know, and they would have one of the older scouts coach each team in red against white or orange against blue, whatever.

And so Koff says to Selma or Elaine one day, he goes, hey, listen, you want to really impress Sather and Muckler and Ted Green and he goes yeah yeah he goes I'll work the front of the net you work the corners so this kid is going from corner to corner to corner and Sather usually he just sit up there with his cigar he never smoked it but he'd just

be holding it and finally you could just see him and he blows a whistle and he says stop stop stop he comes down and he goes Elaine what are you doing and he goes well Paul and he says stop stop so he comes down and he goes oh what are you doing and he goes well paul told me to work the corners cough you stupid he went back up to his seat funny enough lyle ended up telling me to do that when i was his brother told him to check to get a young kid with this well that's exactly what happened and unfortunately he was right on the verge of making our team.

We had such a good team that say they thought, okay, I'll send him down for one more year. He was only 18, and he went down and tore his knee like the second game in junior hockey, and he was never the same. It's just crazy how things happen. Now, I have to say that puts his team together. You guys are dominant in a few years. Was it as easy as it looked out there?

I mean, you guys, every night you must have thought you were going to win tonight every night no no i listen biz and i talk about this a lot the there's so much parody now right there's so much more uh dynamics to the game it's really it's weird to see the eastern conference that eight teams have solidified a playoff spot with 20 games to go. Like, that's very rare, right? There's so much parody in the game today. But back in those days, we'd go on a five-game road trip, and we knew we could win four of those games because we were playing teams that weren't very good, right?

And it just – there was five great teams out of 21, 10 good teams out of 21. Now, even the 26th, 27th team, they're not as good as the top five, but they're hard to play against, right? Like Seattle is near the bottom, but they're hard to play against. So it's changed in that sense. And yeah, there was times where, but on the other side of it also was you got into this playoff mentality of, okay, if we're going to win the Stanley Cup, if we're going to go to that next level, here's how we have to play. And so I think that mindset came into play for us at an early age,

and we were able to adapt to that and obviously became successful because of it. I mean, we could probably spend an entire podcast just talking about Edmonton. I guess to summarize it all and the four cups and the legendary teams, what would you just say about your time there before it came to an end? Well, it was incredible. I was saying, first and foremost, when I was sitting on the bench, I could look around the stands and I would see the same people at every game. And so when we go out on town, and in those days there wasn't cameras and cell phones and all that. But we got out and we met all the people.

We became friends with the fans. And, you know, like when we won the Stanley Cup, we were the first team to actually, I remember sitting there, it was Glenn, we won the Cup, what do we do with the Cup? And he goes, you guys won it, take it. And that's how the Cup started going out. Because in those days, the team would take the trophy up to the office and set it down, and that's where it went. And I remember standing there with young Joey Moss and my dad, and Glenn said,

you guys won the cup take it so we took it yeah all right we had we had a reunion uh I don't know 30 20 30 year reunion for charity and they sold out the arena the coliseum and we had um the Stanley Cup and we're doing this chatting and talking so I took the Stanley Cup and I started to walk down the stairs and they had taken the glass off the board, so it was just the boards right all the way around so people could actually see. And I remember right about the face-off dot,

I handed the guy the Stanley Cup and I said, just pass it up and over. In the NHL, they were like, what are you doing? I said, trust me. So the Edmonton people, they're passing the Stanley Cup up, they pass it up and over in the nhl they were like what are you doing i said trust me so the edmonton people they're passing the stanley cup up they pass it over come all the way down pass it over and we went all the way around the arena no really and i said see this people in edmonton that's how nice they are they have too much respect for the game and the cup don't worry about it that comes it's kind of like a yo-yo. It's going to come back. And then on top of that, from the fans' point of view, on top of that is the players themselves.

We talked about Lee. Kevin Lowe obviously was such a huge part, and so many Hall of Fame guys, and then so many special players like Mark. The thing about Mark was, and I tell this to kids often, he was one of the first guys I played with that I can honestly say that if him and I walked out after a game and I scored three goals, he was genuinely happier than I was,

and you would think that he got the three goals. So his unselfishness was so infectious through the locker room and throughout our organization. And then we had characters, guys like Dave Lumley and Dave Semenko. Glenn wanted us to be our own person. He didn't try to mold people. He didn't try to change them. And like I said, we had one rule, don't embarrass the organization.

I remember guys, we used to practice at 11 o'clock. Guys would get to the arena quarter to 11 and get on the ice. And I'd be sitting there going, oh, my God. And Glenn would go, as long as you're on the ice by 11, I don't care. Whatever it takes to be out there by 11. And then, you know, like I said, sometimes guys would be a little bit late, and I'd go, Glenn, what time's practice today? He goes, around 11.

We've won eight in a row. Yeah. So he was very, he let the guys be themselves, right? And one time Andy was late for practice, and slats was really hot that day, and we're skating around. We're all trying to hide, right? Because so many guys out there were trying to think, maybe he's going to miss Andy here. We'll get away with this a little bit bit maybe he's going to get here on time 15 minutes later Andy jumps over the boards and Slats doesn't say anything we finish practice we

go in the locker room and after practice the trainers go Glenn wants to talk to you guys and Slats is up against the wall and on the wall it says practice 10 to 11 so he goes Andy where were you today what what what happened he goes I thought practice says practice 10 to 11 so he goes andy where were you today what what what happened he goes i thought practice was at 10 to 11 10 50 so slas has got a stick and he's up against the wall and he's going like this and he's hitting the wall he goes what's the last thing that we do when we leave this locker room and glenn ederson says say goodbye to the guys as long as you guys are winning good for you guys so everybody you know and then it was such a um uh diligent group because Andy was one of the hardest practicing players we played with the mess you, you didn't want to practice against him because he was like a bull out there.

Kevin Lowe, bear down. It's just they had the right group of kids that loved playing in Edmonton. And I say this all the time. You've got to love playing in Edmonton. And we loved it. Most of us lived there in the offseason. We had homes there. That was our life.

That was our home. And we all enjoyed it. And going a little bit off the rails, we were about this earlier but a legendary youtube clip and i don't i gotta hear the backstory but it's you pele bjorn borg and uh sugar ray leonard i think it was and you dusted these guys in like a 40-yard dash what was that games what was that event you were doing where was that in person oh my god you look you look like Usain Bolt there. So I was sitting at the World Championships in Finland, and this guy comes over to me.

He said, hey, I work with Bjorn Borg. And I'm sitting with my dad and one of my dad's friends, Charlie Henry. It was a day off, and we were at the World Championships that year. And he said, hey, I represent Bjorn Borg, and we're going to do this charity event, Swedish Superstars, six events. It's going to be in an arena. It's a charity dinner. It's all for charity. What do you want?

I go, what do you mean, what do I want? He goes, okay. He goes, I'll send you six Concord tickets. I go, what tickets? He goes, the Concord. I go, okay. So I'm thinking, all right, I'll take my dad and took Ace Bailey and his wife Kathy. And I'm like, this is a great trip.

So we go over there. And so they have all these different events, right? I think there were six events. And I'm looking at these events going, oh, gosh, I can't do that. I can't do that. I'm going to be bad at that. And then I saw the 40-yard dash. And I'm like, okay, I've i gotta win one event and so i think i

i think i took off before that gun went it looked like perfect timing i'm like all right this is the only event i'm gonna as you can see there's no you don't see me in any other event because i think i came probably last obstacle course i couldn't get over the wall i just got to it and i ran around everybody started laughing i go i mean this is the offseason. I don't need to be going over walls. That's unbelievable. I thought Sugar Ray had a late night the night before, dusting him in a race. Obviously, we've got to get to the

trade, of course. Now, the 30 for 30 documentary that your friend Peter Berg did, King's Ransom, I thought it was one of the best ones. That was one of the first times I think you acknowledged having a role in the trade. I think a lot of people thought you were just sitting there when it happened. Like when did L.A. first come up as a destination? How did you end up settling on getting to L.A.?

Well, let me back it up a little bit. First of all, that year I probably played as good as I had played in the playoffs, and that was the year we beat Boston with the lights went out. Yeah, I know. Came back and won supposedly game five. And so we're sitting there after the game. I don't mean this to be egotistical, but when you win the fourth time, you're kind of like you're sitting there.

You're so tired that the celebration is a little bit different. It's not as chaotic. Like we were able to control it, like keep the room closed, don't let him in, Don't let them in. So it's more family and friends, right? And I remember sitting there, and I'm having a cold beer, and my dad says, you know, they're trying to trade you. And I go, who's they, and who's trading who?

And I go, oh, Dad, you just don't believe anything you hear. And he goes, no, no, I didn't want to tell you this. And so we went home. There was an event, I think, at the convention center or something. I can't remember exactly. And all family and friends, and we obviously were there late. And my mom and dad were staying with me and Janet. And we'd get back to the apartment.

And in those days, there really was no cell phones, right? You had a house phone. And so on game days, I just unplugged my house phone. Nobody could call me. And I wouldn't get woken up. So my mom was making scrambled eggs at about 6 a.m. And we're sitting there, and my phone rings. I'm like, who's calling me?

It's 6 o'clock. And it was Nelson Scalbania. And I'm like, oh, my God, Nelson. I figured, well, he's calling me to congratulate winning the cup. And he goes, how would you like to be a Vancouver Canuck? I went, what? I go, what are you talking about? And he goes, no, no, they're going to, Evanston's going to trade you.

I'm going to buy part of that team. I'll pay you a salary and you can own 25% of the Vancouver Canucks. And I went, Nelson, I just finished hockey four hours ago, six hours ago. I'm too tired. I'll call you later. And I hung up. So I'm sitting with my dad sitting there and I'm going, geez, maybe you're right. So obviously this whole thing sort of started to transpire. And Peter called me and said, listen, you know, cause I only had one year left on my deal. And then I was an unrestricted free agent. And basically we sat down and said, listen, you know, because I only had one year left on my deal. And then I was an unrestricted free agent. And basically, we sat down and said, listen, you can trade me wherever you want, but I'm not going to resign or I'm not going to sign up. So, you know, whatever they're

giving up to you is not going to be worth anything if I don't sign. And so we kind of got to a point where I knew they're going to trade me, but I was able to control where I was going to get moved to. And it came down to L.A., Detroit, New York, and Philly. And then New York and Philly kind of went away, and we had sat down and we decided I was going to Detroit. And I remember sitting there going, okay, this is great. I'm going to go play in Detroit.

I grew up a Red Wing fan and Gordie Howe and everything that goes with it and um my dad called me and he said listen I'll give you a little bit of advice and I said okay what's that he goes there's only one Gordie Howe and Detroit's Detroit you don't need to go there why don't you do something different go to LA and so everybody thought sort of it was my wife that steered the train but or the bus and but it was really my dad who said there's only one Gordie Howe you need to go do something different so that's really how I ended up in LA I mean like I know we're running long here we got to got to let you go soon. But I had a whole Hollywood list here. Just like playing pickup basketball with Shaq. Andy Warhol painting.

He's an icon. If there was like... I kind of wanted you to go into detail about how you ended up meeting him and how that all came about. Because he's such an icon. They just came out with a documentary about him that I watched. I've been watching it. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

Actually, his painting of Marilyn Monroe is going on auction tomorrow. $200 million, they said. That's good. I got one. Gretzky will be doing it. The problem is, it'll be worth more when I die. I don't want to die yet. No, but I met Andy. Hey, maybe we can make some NFTs out of it, Wayne.

There you go. Here comes Biz, the businessman. Oh, yeah. Businessman. Yeah, it, Wano. There you go. Here comes Biz, the businessman. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Business man. Yeah, it was really intriguing. I really didn't know who Andy Warhol was until I met him. And I remember I went in this little office building and went up the stairs, the second floor, and he introduced himself. And we ended up becoming pretty good friends.

He stood there, and he took Polaroid pictures of me for about two hours, and he said, okay, I got it. I had no idea what he was going to do, how he was going to do it. Six months later, we were playing in New York, and we did this event at a restaurant bar where we unveiled it, and everybody went. So I think there's, again, I'm not trying to be egotistical, but I think Leroy Neiman and Andy Warhol only did four athletes that they both did,

and I was one of the four, so that's a pretty nice honor for me because I really liked both of them. Leroy was a good friend of mine also. And, yeah, you know, I always tell people, you know, love the game and have fun. And for me, everybody I met in my life and everywhere I went, everywhere I traveled, is because of hockey. I mean, I got to meet the Pope, Pope John Paul, who's Polish. And I'm like, he's not meeting Wayne Gretzky because I'm handsome. He's meeting because I was a hockey player.

Thankfully, the Pope was an athlete. He was a soccer player. And the first thing he asked me was, do you speak Polish? And I'm sitting there going, why didn't I learn from my grandmother? So yeah, you know, the game of hockey, it's the greatest game in the world. I encourage parents and kids. I mean, love it. I have meet Muhammad Ali down here, being in the rock star video with nickelback i didn't realize that you were in the mc hammer too legit to quit video as well i didn't even know that oh okay well maybe maybe that was completely made up that was a long weekend i didn't know i was in it okay well yeah well apparently that's what it said online so maybe

that's a lie or maybe they used a clip or something okay but i by my my singing skills was only uh janet directed me in the the the video i did for nickelback guys but that was fun actually and then i guess the the one funny story about how you ended up getting on snl and the reason i'm bringing all this up is because like fortunately you ended up going to la because i even said today like i i don't if you don't end up there i bet you there's no team in arizona i probably don't even get a chance to play in the nhl if it's not for you so i'll tell you this about la and this is this is true when we went to la um i remember saying okay we gotta make got to change the culture or the sort of what people think of our game. And so I got in a lot of trouble over this.

I came out and said we should ban fighting. And the only reason I said it was at the time that if you ran into people in California or Texas or Florida at that point in time, they'd say, oh, I can't go to a hockey game. It's just all fighting and brawls. And so that was sort of the image. And so from my point of view, I was saying, okay, we've got to change our image. It's an art to be a hockey player. It's an art to take a hit. It's an art to get hit. Like it's a physical game. And so we started to sort of preach that. And then we got really lucky. Michael Eisner became a huge hockey fan and he had a young son who loved hockey and his young son wanted to play hockey

and the gist of the story was that Michael after all these games said I want to win a hockey team and so he he said to me one night at dinner I'm gonna do a movie the Mighty Ducks and I'm gonna have an NHL team called the Mighty Ducks and I remember looking I'm going I know you're Disney and I know you've done well, but Mighty Ducks in the NHL? He goes, I'm telling you, it's going to be huge. So timing was everything, right? And so Michael Eisner coming in and then a guy named Gordon Gund who owned Minnesota moved them to San Jose and said, okay, I'm going to make hockey work here. And then Mario was in Pittsburgh and Brett Hall was in St. Louis and Eisenman was in Detroit and Mark Messier went to New York.

And so there was just this perfect storm of not only these guys were great players, but they had personalities and they knew how to sell the game and people wanted to hear what they had to say. And so the game just started growing. So I was one piece of it, but everybody had a hand in that, and that's what's great about our sport. Wow. Did you ever feel like you were carrying the game, not the la market but were you cognizant okay man this this could lead to like future franchises in these spots were you aware that that might be a possibility yeah no i i didn't really think that much although i will

tell you this i i had a clause in my contract that if there was a an nhl team within i can't remember 300 miles of la that i got a piece of it or i got a compensation for it and i waived it when the ducks came in the nhl i said to bruce mcnaul i said you know i'm not going to do that that's but i did have in my car i don't even know why in those days you put anything in your contract right it was the wild wild it was the wild wild west back then um so no you know i never thought that way because uh bobby or and gordy who i idolized both of them are and bobby hall that would always say hey there's not one guy bigger than the game the game is the game no nobody's bigger than the game so i never felt just that total responsibility. But as a collective group, you know, like Messier and

Iserman and Lemieux and so on, Hulley, we all understood where we fit and what we had to do to try to even take the game to another level. I remember one all-star game in Philly, Hulley said to me, okay, we're not going to wear helmets in this game. I go, Hulley, I don't wear a helmet anyway. Do you see my helmet? He goes, no, no, we're not wearing helmets. This will be good for NHL. And so Holly played the whole game with no helmet. I said, I'm not taking my helmet off. I'm going to wear that thing. And I don't need my dad

coming down and yelling at me. I don't need my dad yelling at me, right? We've taken a lot of your time. Thank you, Wayne. Yeah, I know these long sit-downs can get even longer. If you've got one more, maybe, then hopefully we'll make a rule here. The amount of years that we spend together at TNT, maybe each year we can get you for one hour. Oh, yeah.

I'm fine with that. That's fair. My wife says that I'm like a garbage can. You step on my foot and my mouth opens. I don't get a chance to talk at TNT. Witt's carrying the workload. Yeah, exactly. He's the show.

Hey, that was actually in my notes here. I said, we're going to do things a little different, and I'm going to keep it short and sweet, completely unlike TNT. No, no, that's okay. But are we going to talk about my lacrosse team at all? Yes. So that was the last thing. We wanted to drop the team name and drop the news at the end.

Oh, we got a team name? Oh, I thought we did. I don't know. You mentioned how important it was in your development, and once hockey would end, you would play lacros? Oh, I thought we did. I don't know. You mentioned how important it was in your development. And once hockey would end, you would play lacrosse and baseball in the offseason. And you had the opportunity to be part owner in a Vegas lacrosse team. They have not announced the name. We're going to announce it right now.

Oh, we are. I'm dying to know what the name is. Yeah. You know before I do. Come on. And I paid. See, this whole job with you biz is getting worse. So you own the team with Steve Nash.

Dustin Johnson's also a part owner. Any other names that we should- Joe Sy. So Joe Sy, when Joe Sy calls, you take the call, right? He's a wonderful man, and he owns the Brooklyn Nets. Loves lacrosse. Grew up playing a little bit of lacrosse. I think at college he played.

And he has a passion for the sport. And he called me and I said, absolutely. He really has a belief that this sport is going to sort of be like soccer and that we can take it to the next level nationally in Canada and U.S. It's a great game. It's a wonderful sport. And I'm so proud to be partners with Joe. And Dustin and I and Steve are going to have fun. I'm not sure. I think next year is our great game. It's a wonderful sport. And I'm so proud to be partners with Joe and Dustin and I,

and Steve are going to have fun. I'm not sure. I think next year is our first game. I honestly don't know the name of the team, you know, before I do. So it's ironic because this is how I refer to the coyotes. Sometimes it's going to be called the Las Vegas desert.

Oh, I love that name. Is it nice? Oh, oh, oh, are they going to send you guys a bunch of stuff you can come in and be like our vince mcmahon in between periods i've sold wayne i'll do anything

you ask as long as we get that one hour every year okay here it's good well i'm glad i got to do this i'll tell you one final real quick story when i started talking to TNT about coming on TV and I was like oh okay and my kids were like dad you gotta do it and then finally I said okay I think I'm gonna do it and my kids were like okay you gotta get Paul Bissonette on that show so I said so I said okay okay so I

called them and they go we already have him hired so I told my boys I said Paul's already been hired and my two boys were like dad he's gonna revolution hired, and my two boys were like, Dad, he's going to revolutionize hockey and TV. So there you go. Wow, what a compliment. You guys and Toc and Ace is doing great.

It's a pleasure to meet you, and thank you so much for coming on. It's a true honor. I'm so happy to be here, and Biz, you can have mine. I thought it was going to be the Las Vegas Wainos. I was going to go with Las Vegas Wainos, Mr. Wainerful. Thank you so much for this. The fans are going to love this.

Oh, thank you guys. It's been an honor, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Just a huge thrill for the boys, and Gretz did not disappoint. Thanks again to Ty and Trevor for helping us make that happen. Huge thanks to our buddies there. All right, this next one was a blast for me as well,

as the President Bruins guy in the pod. He got me on the scotch, for better or worse. But have some laughs with Bruins folk hero, PJ Stock. Before we get to more of the post-career, I got to hear the Bazooka Joe story. If there's one story that kind of sums up my career, this is pretty much it. I'd love to give you Cole's notes first.

I'm going to try my best, and I apologize. I'm a little long-winded. So my kids never let me speak at home. Yeah, so back in the day, we're playing New York Rangers, New York Islanders, first year. We had that team, the old 85 Oilers team, but it's 97 in New York right now. And we're like, there's no salary cap but we're expected to do pretty well but we're about to lose to the Islanders and not

make the playoffs huge New York New York rivalry and we're in Long Island and if we lose this game we're pretty much done for the playoffs the crowd goes crazy because we have Gretz there anywhere we went and we get down they score goal to make it 3-0 and their building

is rocking crazy and it's like everyone's and Gretz goes out there there you know a couple minutes left to go on the game and they're like okay Gretz goes out to take the face off and the left is like whoa whoa there's a timeout been called

and Gretz goes back and sees our coach John Muckler and looks at Muck and Muck's like, sometimes I think Muck would fall asleep on the bench sometimes. I just, I don't mean to say that, but yeah, I think he fell, anyways. So Muck is like, I didn't call a timeout. So then Gretz looks at their bench

and goes over to see their bench and goes over in there and like, cause Gretz can do that. Wayne goes over to their bench and says, do you guys call a a timeout and the guys on the team kind of roll their eyes and point up to to you know to mike milbury like that mike milbury called the coach let me preface this by saying i love mike mulberry but for the story i'm just going to play the i'm in range right at the time okay i work with mike i love mike but at the time he's a coach new york islanders they called the timeout and there he is mike as i've spoke to him after he said like well we i wanted to make sure the

guys were calm and ready yet no no it was three zero and he was standing up there like oh like enjoy like the like the crowd going crazy and he was like they were like they just eliminated us and they were loving it and now gretz like kind of yells at them, then comes back to our bench and goes to Muckler. And Mucks, and I think Mucks might have taken another nap at this point, but he's like, Mucks! And he's like, they called a timeout. And he's like, what? He looks at them.

He starts, this is where there's going to be a little bit of swearing, and it's not me. It's everybody else. So he looks at everyone on their bench and says, what? They start yelling back coaches and Mulberry's not saying anything. And Muckler's like, you want to play that fucking game? You want to play that fucking game? Stalker, get your lineup. Stalker, get your fucking lineup.

It's fucking three minutes left to go in the third period i haven't played since why am i getting punished three minutes since the first period so now for regular people are thinking well whatever that's 17 minutes in the first and then you know another 20 and then another 17 you know it's it's it's not that bad no no no that's like two and a half hours since you touched the ice. At least 90 minutes. Like two hours, man. I haven't touched the ice.

And now I'm – the one thing in the NHL that you get an abundance of is tape and back then bazooka Joe gum. Everywhere. Everywhere. It lost its flavor in three seconds. It lost 100%. And they tear it hard as a rock. A rock. So much tape and bazooka Joe gum. So we're in Long Island and we're sitting.

The Long Island bench is like the other team's there. Glass. Sorry, a little photographer. Then their team. But there's two seats and then the door. And then the team. Or the rest of the guys. I call them the team because I wasn't allowed to sit over there.

Yeah, I would always sit on the end, too. I'm sitting on the end because we didn't play. Yeah. Right? So we didn't play. I just want to be comfortable not to keep moving. So, again, two and a half hours of me not playing hockey, and I tried my ADD, ADHD, YMCA, NBA,

trying to keep it all going on at the same time. I play games. So, like, I'd spy with my little eye with the backup trainer, the goalie, anybody. Another game is a fun one to play is for people watching. You guys can thank me or get some Pink Whitney. Appreciate that. Appreciate that.

Send you some. Thank you very much. A blackjack with the clock. So whenever the clock stops, let's say, you know, R.A. Witt and Biz and I are playing and I'm house. The first whistle, the last number, let's say you know ra went and biz and i are playing and i'm house the first whistle the last number let's say it starts at 1959 ra would get a nine and you wait till the next whistle biz you'd get that and you play blackjack and me as house at 16 would always have to hit so you know whatever 20 bucks a hand and you just do this throughout the game and like it's five two your team's losing but you just heard this throughout the game. And it's 5-2, your team's losing, but you just heard Blackjack. And the coach looks down at you.

I had all kinds of stupid things to keep myself. I wouldn't play for hours. This particular night, I'm sitting on the Long Island bench. And it's just me and Darren Langdon, who's one of the best human beings ever. Langer from Newfoundland. He was the best. I just love Darren Langdon. And this particular night uh langer is on my left and i'm sitting here and i filled my game my glove up with bazooka joes there's three colors of bazooka joes there's

grape there's like a red right the cherry and like a pink and the traditional original yeah yeah three and as wit says we we were betting 20 bucks a guess of which one I was going to pull out of my glove next. Oh, my God. Okay? And the only one, if you opened a purple one, we chewed it. That was it. And you chew it for three seconds until your mouth went.

It was great, those three seconds. It was great. So we take a few seconds of, you know, of, you know, bet. Okay. Purple. That's right. You owe me 20 bucks. Pink.

That's pink. I owe you 20 bucks. And we did this for like the third period. Three minutes left to go. I still got half a glove of Bazooka Joe's. And like, stalker, get your lineup. What's your fucking lineup? Fucking Darren Langdon skates are undone.

I have no, no tape on my shin pads. And Bill Berg was our other lineman, but Billy killed penalties, and Billy was a superstar. He snapped his leg. Remember that? I don't know. I think his career ended with a compound fracture, right? But not in this story, R.A.

You just jumped in. You just jumped in. That's R.A. That's another story, R.A. That's my hockey memory story. You ought to go Scotty Gomez, Spiderweb, choose your own ending, Goosebumps, Errol Stein. Let's go.

So anyways, we end up, we end up, Stalker gets your line up. I fucking quickly tape around here. And I used to put water on myself to wake myself up. Like water on my head, water on my arms, water on my hands, everywhere. And I quickly, there's like, Stalker, get out there. Langer's tying up his skates, trying to get ready. And we put our line out there. And it's myself, again, and we're nothing from tough guys whatsoever,

but we were our fourth line. Darren Langdon, super tough guy. Myself, Bill Berg. We had Eric Aarons and Bruce Driver. Our goalie was Danny Cloutier. They decide to put their most offensive line out there, thinking that they're not going to do it. It's Tchaikovsky,

Zygmunt Palfrey, Trevor Linden, Jean-Jacques Daigneault, and a young Zidane Oceara. Their goalie's Tommy Salah. Well, I go, I'm at center ice, and I haven't played, and I got, I'm fired up, and everyone's's swearing and the building's rocking and they go to drop the puck and I take my stick and I'm going to, I don't know why, I never did this.

I decide I'm going to slash Trevor Linden across the chest, just like right across his belly, like right here. The problem is when I went on the ice, I tried to shake all the bazooka joes out of bazooka joe gums out of my glove and when i went to take the face off and finally put my glove on because i had a really big mouth guard i i put my mouth guard in my glove and my fingers still couldn't fit into my glove because there were still bazooka joes slammed in the bottom of my glove so i'm holding my stick with like two fingers and i slash Trevor Linden like this. And he looks at me, he's like, what are you doing? But again, I have such a big mouth guard in

and I can't because I work for fighting. And I'm like, I wanted to tell him like, you know, piss off. And I take my stick and go to hit him again. It's like a wet noodle. Like this, hits him like this. And it's just kind of like the puck goes, Trevor was a right-handed face-off, went it back and went to Zidane O'Chara.

Zidane O'Chara is now at the red line. I get there as fast as I can, which was probably three minutes later to get there. And I jump up, and I freaking, for Bruins fan, I elbow Zdeno Ciaro like there's no tomorrow. And I jump so high. I got him right here. I got him right in the sternum. Right in the sternum. And he looks down like, is you okay, kid?

And then before you know it, Darren Lang, our goalie is Danny Clousey. Danny Clousey stops the puck behind the net so they blow the whistle because I have a penalty for like half slashing and then like kind of jumping on Chara. Darren Lang, the only guy I can go after is Chara. It's a young Chara. It's not a Bruins Chara. So it's not an Islanders Chara. So Langer comes and jumps on top of me to go after chair.

And then, uh, Buka boom comes and jumps on top of Langer to go after chair. Anyways, we end up, uh, a fight breaks out. Uh, and, uh, I have this, I get stuck with your Koski and he's like, they're like, I think he was dating a bond model. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I wanted to talk to him about that, but he wouldn't talk to me. And I didn't want to hit him or anything. What are you doing? Yeah, I'm like, he has a visor on, and I go to punch him, and he just doesn't move. So I'm like, okay, here's the deal. Let's just stay here, and nothing happens, and let's be cool. Let's be buddies, you know? You know, get me bond tickets, whatever. And he's kind of like, just kind of, no one's moving.

And that's it, until Billy Guerin's fighting Trevor Linden, knocks Trevor Linden to the ground. Trevor falls down, and then Tchaikovsky pushes me off to go save his, you know, Trevor Linden. And as he goes to save Trevor Linden, it's like a comic. I grab him by the back of the jersey. It's like that stretch thing, like he's about to get there, and his feet stop, and I'm holding him back, and I pull him, and I start punching him a bunch of times. Their goalie, Tommy Salo, comes after me.

Danny Cloutier is our goalie. Have you guys ever seen Cloutier? Oh, he's tough. Tough. Real tough. You've got to watch his video. Another hockey fight. Yeah, I've seen him.

Cloutier goes down and takes off all his upper body gear and goes after Tommy Salo, then challenges their bench. And it's a big brouhaha. Yeah, very famous brawl. Everything. Yeah, Islander Rangers brawl everything it's a yeah islander rangers brawl that kind of it was great it was our goalie is sitting there with his turtleneck on and a neck challenging their bench it was hockey back then anyways oh i'm sorry yeah so like

everyone gets kicked off the ice and as they're about and ready to start the game back up and they're like the new goalie that's in for tommy sallow i forget who it was at the time he has to hit the ice because as we were fighting my gloves got kicked around and everything and all the gum got loose and now there was bazooka joes all over the ice so the game was like delayed another three minutes as every time they went to start they had to pick up so that pretty much sums up my hockey big thanks to pj for coming by the omni pocket house with some nice glassware for the boys Every time they went to start, they had to pick up. So that pretty much sums up my hockey career. Big thanks to PJ for coming by the Omni Parker House with some nice glassware for the boys.

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to accounting to advanced chatbots and beyond. So go to shopify.com slash chicklets, all lowercase, for a free 14-day trial and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash chicklets right now. Next on deck was a first for the Chicklets Boys, our first ever interview while ice fishing, in with the guy who turned out to be pretty hilarious. Have some laughs with Minnesota native Ryan Carter.

We're coming to you from a first ever interview from the inside of what? Is that a hut? No, it's the Clam 600 RA. The Clam 600. It is what it is. It's Ice Fishing Hut. We're on an unnamed lake here in Minnesota. And this guy's a local guy.

He was an undrafted free agent out of Minnesota, Mankato, including playoffs. He played over 500 NHL games for five teams. He won a Stanley Cup with the 07 Ducks. These days, you can catch him breaking down the games. What network are you on? Valley Sports North. Valley Sports North. Thanks so much for joining us on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast.

Ryan Cotta. Hey, thanks for having me and thanks for weathering the storm here. It's great. This is the North. This is the North. And this is luxury. This is the North in luxury. Yeah, this is great. This is the north. This is the north. And this is luxury. This is the north and luxury. Yeah, he told us right away, he's like, this is like bougie ice fishing. You have a heater next to you

and you wore designer boots to the pond. He wore his Louis Vuitton scarf here, folks. But it's great catching up. Former teammate of mine in Anaheim. And nowadays, besides doing the Minnesota broadcast and all that you also I see a podcast it's a wild podcast you're into it is a wild podcast yeah Stanley

on seventh uh the Minnesota wild and not necessarily the wild but Minnesota people in general they're like they're like afraid to get invested in the sports I know you're you're a Boston guy so we just win and they just win but it's like the mentality here is like everybody just waits for the team to just catastrophically oh they don't threaten their lives online until they win right and then it's like they just like success but they're just waiting for an epic failure and then when that happens like oh see i knew it i knew it i knew it that's why i don't care yeah i never liked this team anyways so i'm trying to change that tune a little bit but the wild and billy gann they've done a good job with that in themselves that's great and i actually asked the guy uh at the

restaurant the other day about, what's up with the Vikings? He goes, no, I won't talk about them. I don't even think about them. We don't talk about them. So I know the heartbreak in Minnesota is real. How'd you get in the media? Was it something you knew you wanted to do?

We had Joel Vitale on. He was a former player, and it kind of ended up falling in his lap. What was your story and how you got involved? Same. I don't think I had the skill set to be in hockey ops or anything else, but, I mean, when you're 30-something years old, right, and it's like real world kind of hits you right in the face, and you're like people are – I remember people being like,

what do you like to do? What are your skills? I was like, well, I can put a puck in the corner and get in the back. I can get my arm stuck in a – You mean score? No, no, I'll chip it in the corner. I can get my arm stuck in a camera hole. Nobody can go back to the bench after the first line comes on the ice faster.

For real, what are your skills? What are you good at? What do you want to do? I'd like to be 10 years younger and play again. Somebody asked if I wanted to try the TV stuff. I originally said no out of fear. Really? Yeah.

I said I'll try a little bit. I'll dip the toe, but I don't want to go all in. And it started the pre and post at the desk and stuff, and then a little opportunity to do in the booth the game stuff. And I've really had a lot of fun. It has been good. And it's nerve-wracking at first. It is.

But it's been good. Yeah, so before every broadcast, or even before you record a podcast or jump on the radio, do you tend to get a little bit nervous? Yeah. Regardless of what you're doing? Yeah, there's no question. I always have a moment, too, where, like, my neck goes right before we go on. Do they catch it and, like, clip it and send it to you?

Like, the producer's like, no, they don't know, but now they're going to know. Quick meltdown. Yeah, it is. It's quick. Like, I can feel it's like. If you guys knew the pain i was going through inside right now you wouldn't even let me do this don't talk to me don't talk to me you went you went back to school like 12 years later to get your degree right i did yeah again that was out of panic i didn't know

what to do but i want to do something positive uh and my i had kids at the time and it's hard to like i feel like to tell your kids go to school if you didn't go and then dad had the chance right but it was good to speak into my soul right now. I think I've got to go back to school. To have something positive to do, you know, and some responsibility when I got done playing. So I went back to school. I was lucky I could do it kind of remotely without having to go down and take classes in person and got some help wrapping that up.

But that was, yeah, that was huge for me. Were you on scholarship? Did they honor it all those years later, or did you have to, I guess, pay? I'm not being nosy, but I was just curious. No, thanks for pointing out I wasn't a big time player. I wasn't Big Ten or one of these big college programs. No, I was on scholarship, but they didn't. And it wasn't part of the process.

I wouldn't have wanted that anyways. That would be taking money from the hockey program. I think it's the opposite now where you'd like to provide for the program. So many kids coming through. Yeah, you said, you know, you weren't like a well-known name, I'm saying, like undrafted. And even getting to Mankato, what was the whole route? I mean, if you were always kind of a guy that everyone looked past,

I mean, you had to really grind even to play D1, I'm guessing. I think I was probably bottom tier of good players, like never anywhere near playing for the national team of the world junior or anything like that um but always decent enough you know i went to play junior in green bay um after high school sorry after high school so older too yeah older so i was probably 17 18 my first year in junior and then played two years there so 1920 going into college um so a little older um but yeah that's kind of how it went and just decent enough to be and mature enough to figure it out on the fly you know so um lucky

in that regard well i mean a good skater and then at some point you're like i just gotta bang bodies every night in order to survive right well so i think i got really lucky with my path too so i went to green bay and i had marco siki and it was great I still remember he showed us his highlight package one day he wanted to teach us how to play and he showed us and it was all cross-checks behind the net just like this is how you have to play oh yeah yeah so and he wanted us to play tough and we played hard and that's where I learned that sometimes you have to fight like a Minnesota kid you know some some guys they're not into it or they're labeled as

maybe not the toughest so had to figure out how to how to fight how to play mean kind of and um that was gonna have to be the way it was it was fun scoring goals back in the day you could play on the park i know the green bay gambler days yeah exactly that's when you're late so you're from minnesota you go to green bay were you going to packers games all the time was that a little bit awkward are you a vikings hardcore yeah so i do like the vik Bay. Were you going to Packers games all the time? Was that a little bit awkward? Are you a Vikings hardcore? So I do like the Vikings, but this is going to get me in trouble. I'm probably more of a Packers fan now. I work for the Packers.

What? Yeah. So when you play junior at USHL, you've got to get a job. So you've got to get a job. And I was lazy. I was like, so you're telling me I can count this as a job and work one day a week for three hours at the Packers game, and that's my job?

I can do nothing the rest of the time? Perfect. Basically getting free season tickets. And it was just bench seating, so I was like an usher. So I'd just be like, that's your bench. Hey, post it out right there. Just go to the letter. Who cares about the number?

Squeeze a cheek. You're grabbing his popcorn as he goes by. They were just drunk. That must have been awesome. So did you get to meet Brett Favre when he was there? No, we were nowhere near that level. Oh, okay. He sent him a deck pack.

Oh, you were a peasant. You were a peasant just like. Oh, yeah. So the Packers, we were at the Rush Stadium, and it was across the street from Lambeau Field. And the Packers would practice, and they'd ride bikes. So I'd be one of those nerds that would be like there with your bike and be like, hey, take my bike.

You know, and if one of the linemen took your bike, it was just on distress, and you're like, dude, it's handling it all right. That's great. So when you were getting recruited by mankato were there other schools how did you choose to go there so yeah mankato it i almost didn't get an offer there i got myself in trouble i missed my recruiting flight um because i had gone out to a party in river falls so i was only like 45 minutes away from where I was supposed to fly to. I thought it was a different day. They're like, who is this? That's you saying, hey, do you really want me?

I fucked up this bad. Do you still want me? I got a call. It was like 9 o'clock at night. And I was three hours away from where I was supposed to fly out of. And I had been drinking. And I'd rode with a buddy.

So I didn't have any wheels. No way to get back. And he's like, you ready to be picked up tomorrow tomorrow I was like no it's not tomorrow you guys are funny and he's like no you're getting picked up tomorrow I was like yeah no I'm just kidding I'll see you then hang up the phone panic and end up driving to Minneapolis Airport the next morning I didn't adjust for the layover so I was an hour and a half early but I put I went there to look at the baggage claim To set my bag on the carousel

Because I wanted to make it look like I was on the flight Come on you went to the You put your own fucking bag on the carousel Yeah because I wanted to make it look like I was on the flight So then I hid behind like a corner And I was like looking at my watch I was an hour and a half early. So I went and took a nap, came back.

I did it again, like an hour later. And sure enough, the coach came up. He's like, Hey, cards. Hey, whatever. Let me just go, go grab my bag, grab my bag off of the car. We go down. I come clean to one of the seniors and they're like, Oh my gosh, that's the greatest. Um, I didn't think the coach is new, but I got offered the scholarship and they're like, oh, my gosh, that's the greatest. I didn't think the coaches knew, but I got offered the scholarship. And they're like, we want to know in, like, seven days. I was like, well, before anybody finds out about what I did, I better say yes to this. Yeah, before they can pull it. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, I'll take it.

I ain't looking anywhere else. You got a deal. We go back to the airport after, and they're like, because the seniors were like, hey, you know, if you don't take the first leg of a round-trip flight, they'll cancel that second leg. Exactly. You might not have a flight home. So I was panicking. I was shitting my pants. I'm up at the till or at the desk, and they're like, we don't see a Ryan Carter on this flight.

I was like, no, no. Why is this happening? Here it goes. But eventually, yeah, so I almost had to come clean to the coach. I turned around. I was like, Kurt, you were on the flight out here, weren't you? I was like, you know what? And then she goes, oh, here you are.

It's an hour later. You're on the wrong reservation. I was like, no way. Right as you were about to tell. Yes. So that's when you knew you had to go there. That's how I knew. Who was the coach there?

That's the spot. This is it. It was Troy Judding, but Darren Blue was the guy. Okay. So you spent, what, three full years in Green Bay, though, developing? Two. Two in Green Bay, two in college. And you had some pretty, I was looking at the HockeyDB,

like you ended up playing with Adam Burrish, who ended up making it up to the NHL. Nate Gannon, who spent some time. I think there was a few other names. Yeah, Matt Green. Oh, Matt Green as well. So obviously the development there at that time was probably pretty good. Yeah, it was.

And like I said, that was Marco Siki. A lot of those guys were, like, tough, hard-nosed guys. Greeny. Was Jens on that team? Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah. I played with Matt Green the year before, and then he had, you know,

he was taking one more year before North Dakota. Right. And I feel like that year actually probably, he would say, like made him into who the player really was. He became a mean prick. He always was, but. Yeah. And Oz was good with that stuff.

You know, you think of Greener, too. He probably was one of the last guys to use a wood stick, but just a big co-hole, right? It was the bubble hockey stick. The blade was this long. And it was just as thick as could be. It's a board. You go up to North Dakota, and you're getting cross-checked all over.

So it was good for the development of those guys. We're back. One of the technical difficulties we have filming in an igloo is sometimes the camera gets foggy, so we had to reboot this one. I was just going to ask about, like, so you obviously go off to Mankato and end up getting that scholarship, but, like, were you talking to the other guys about where they were going with the Green Bay Gamblers? Did that have any impact on maybe where you were going to head for college?

Yeah, that's kind of weird, right? Like, a lot of times that's the case where your teammates are teammates are your competition there's only so many deals out there right so you're playing with these guys and and you're hearing who they're talking to and and what it looks like maybe if they're getting offers from people and you know that every time one of those goes off that's a that's a chance that you're not going to get now right so um but at the same time you're super pumped when everybody's getting a deal i always wanted to play being from minnesota i want to play in the old WCHA. It was Minnesota, North Dakota, Duluth.

Colorado College. Yeah, Denver. Like, that's where I really wanted to be. There were schools out east that were interested, too, but it was like my heart was always in the WCHA. So after two years of college, like, what, have the Ducks come calling? I mean, you hadn't even been drafted. When did they make their initial offer to you?

Right, so my whole story is I didn't know anything about hockey. My parents had never played. Nobody's ever skated, nothing. I literally had a rink in the backyard from the neighbor, and that's where I learned to play. So I never had an agent. I never had anything. And David McNabb calls me, and he's like, hey, we really like you. Do you have an agent we can have a talk to?

I was, no, I don't have an agent. You put your roommate on the phone? Yeah, after we were in college, i'd never talked to any advisor about anything i think it's probably a good thing i had so uh dan plant i ran into him at a golf tournament probably like three four years ago he's like hey you idiot you remember like i called him as a k do you want representation and i apparently laughed at him i was like i don't need an agent i'm just trying to play college hockey no way i had I had no idea. Yeah, no idea. All I want to do is play college hockey. But weren't you kind of seeing

like a little like, wow, like I just played with that guy. He's playing pro. I'm as good as him. But at the same time, really naive. It was like I wasn't drafted. It was like, oh, that's okay. I was going to say that's a blessing in disguise. I feel like especially nowadays and even when I was coming up, you get a little wrapped

up in what your competition's doing, what they have have maybe like where they're getting drafted and like to be naive to that just put all your time and energy just on hockey and playing and having a good time probably ended up benefit benefiting you in the end yeah i really think it did i wasn't you know like you said distracted by anything i didn't know any better all i want to do is play college hockey be good at it right and um i didn't know so i get the call they're like do you have an agent i was like no they're like do you want us to provide you an agent that seems like a terrible idea we signed you for 75 grand three years hey one of the ushers that sounds like a terrible idea don king so yeah so that's how it went and then eventually uh i just ended up signing a deal i didn't want to i didn't

want to sign pro i actually wanted to turn the deal down i did turn the deal down for like a week so july 1 after my sophomore year i said no i don't i don't want to sign i'm going to play another year and then i was playing with david backus and kyle pedo some other good players key parts of the power play and undrafted free agent i didn't know if i could duplicate that year again right and now they lost david backus on july 1 and kyle pito on like july 2 and a couple other guys had left and it's like okay well now all of a sudden i'm an undrafted free agent i got a chance at playing pro hockey they called the last day of that summer development camp they're like one more chance you want to take it i said said, sure, I'll take it. Wow. So after those guys left, that's smart and being like, man, I could be kind of like half

the player next year stat-wise. Right. And then this is the law to go. Right. Wow. And opportunity. So then that's when I left. I was installing office furniture in southern Minnesota, and I had to tell the boys, we're

in like a big truck. Don't throw, boys! I was riding bitch in the back because I was low man on the totem pole. I was like, hey, fellas, this is super weird, but can you take me to the airport? I got to fly to Anaheim, like, right now. They're like, what? Hey, not to rub it in.

Hey, can everyone put down their Allen keys? Not to rub it in, but I've just signed a pro contract, guys. So have fun assembling furniture. And by the way, can I get a ride to the airport? Yeah, screw this furniture shit. See you, boys. Take me to the airport.

You guys are going to be watching me on TV, fellas. Good luck good luck so from what i hear i didn't play college shocker uh one of the hardest conversations though is when you are leaving early is to like call your coach and your teammates though so and then like all of a sudden you get a week period like how did how did that go down was he happy for you yeah the other hard part is it's a summer so you're not around all of them too right uh but the coach was the coach is like are you sure this is something you want to do you know you come back that that you can you're going to be a leader you're going to have everything like your role is going to grow i'm not saying you're not ready but if if like just so you know all the stuff is is on the table for you if you come back i said i know i thought about it man but it's time to go and then they

just say good luck you know i think it's good for everybody if guys move on. And they have a guy leaving their school that's playing pro hockey, you know, so it's a good look for them as well. That's what I mean. Everybody wins. Like, it stings for them and the program, but at the same time, I think it helps them recruit and the whole nine yards. So it was tough, but at the end, I think it was a good call.

So take me to camp that next year, first pro camp, for a guy who's naive to the game and everything that kind of goes along with pro hockey. You must have been like, what the fuck is going on? I shit my pants. I shit my pants. So, again, I don't know anything about hockey. We didn't have formal four checks. I walk in there, and they're like, Randy wanted to control everything, right?

Randy Carlisle. It was like we're running a one two two a two one two and all these other things and i was like i don't know what the fuck this is so we go out there and i'm butchering every single drill because i just don't know what's going on and you're already american so we can't stand you right exactly yeah u.s college guy his favorite yeah uh so no i think it was actually shane'Brien, too, that just popped me right early in. Because, you know, remember, training camps were, it was tough back in the day, too.

There would be fights. You know, like, the two toughest guys. A good amount of fights. You knew the two toughest guys were fighting. I fought Carcillo one training camp at, like, 8.30 in the morning. I'll never forget it. And the guys, no fights at training camp. First scrimmage game, me and Carcillo.

We were, like, good buddies off the ice, too. We ended up living together in Wilkes-Barre. So, yeah, but that's how it was back then, man. Everybody was competing and no tummy sticks. Right, and if you were a tough physical D-man and there was a forward coming through the middle of his head, you're going to hit him, right? I could see that, right?

So, all in all, it was eye-opening right off the bat. I mean, I can remember just absolutely shit in my pants. It was Chris Pronger, Team Mussolini, Rob Scott, Niedermeyer, and it's like, Ryan Carter, who? Number 52 on the jersey. I was going to say, what number were you?

Send me down! I'm so uncomfortable. How long did you last at camp? I think probably like two or three games you get tossed in there. The one good thing about, Oh, not bad. Yeah. The one good thing about, or not one good thing, but Anaheim was great with college free agents at that time.

I think it was Chris Kunitz, Curtis Glencross, Dustin Penner. They'd call a guy or they'd sign one guy every year, and he got a legitimate chance. Yep. So I always say, like, it used to be nine rounds in the draft. You're like a cat. If you're a first-rounder, you got nine lines. Oh, yeah. Screw up nine times, you'll still like a cat if you're a first rounder you got nine lines oh yeah screw up nine times you'll still get a chance you're a ninth rounder you got one

chance right but anaheim if you're an undrafted free agent you came in as like a second or third round yeah they're gonna give you a couple chances right and that was that was legitimate and that was fair and it was good that way yeah that's very legit if you know you're actually gonna be given a shot as opposed to like i got one skate and they sent me down what the hell was that right so yeah and then i was good in that regard but um yeah no that's certainly fair it was a good spot to start i don't know how it got brought up uh but it got brought up randomly about this ambient story now that was that in that was in anaheim was that early on well? Well, yeah. No, it was not early on. It wasn't early on.

So Randy and I didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things, and it started with, well, there's a lot that goes into it, but eventually it got to a spot where I pushed a net at Randy in a skate after a rookie party. Yeah, well, you were getting bagged skating, right? You were out of the lineup in and out, and you were kind of like the whipping boy, so to speak. If we want to rewind the whole way, like, rookie dinner, this is kind of how Randy worked.

We have a rookie dinner. We play in Dallas. We fly to Chicago. We have dinner in Chicago. But he sets practice for, like, 9 o'clock the next morning. Oh, for fuck's sake. I know. It's like, okay.

Might as well just pull an all-nighter. Right, that's what I mean. So guys are up until 4 anyways anyways or whatever it is, right? And then the next day is just to sweat it out. Well, we're sweating it out, drills, whatever. And the way he did it was like everybody's doing laps at the end. And like the super vets did like one lap and then they were off. That was like prongs and needs.

And then you go over and tap each guy. Like one lap, a team will get off. And then like, you know, it's dropping. But we weren't even close to being done, you and I. No, and we should have been. It was like the rookies, like the taxi squad and carts, right? No, I was there, dude. It was me and you with a whipping boy's physique. Hey, it's a bad look when he goes and puts his stick away after everybody's been tapped but you two.

Yeah, so he gives the tap to everybody, and then I get the tap. He get the tab says cards take this net push it from this end to that end of back i was like you motherfucker so i got all hot i pushed the net from one end to the other end and as i come back i was so mad that i wasn't off the ice yet and the way the rink was set up so like all the vets are watching and they're in the locker room and Superman strength. I just shoved the net at Randy, like with a, it's like a here, fuck you kind of thing. And it was just, it went like mock 10. He thought he was just flicking it, dude. It hit him.

It went at him. He hits the wall. He goes down, holds a stanchion, stabs his stick in the ice. And then he gets up. You can get off. And then I skid off the ice I'm like what did I just fucking do Meanwhile I think that ended his day So I'm in the locker room

And everybody's just high five and loved it It was the best ever And then here comes Randy like waddling through Fucking cross fucking That was it and then I didn't see the ice for a real long He said you were health bombed 15 in a row. Yeah. Dude, I remember.

Just casually. I will never forget you. I was like along the wall. He was here, pushing right into the corner. Yeah. And I just, as you skated by and pushed at him, I was like, oh, my God. That's the best thing I've ever seen. He's down.

He's yelling like an old grumpy bastard. Fucking car. The management was was upstairs watching. There was no hiding from it. That was the end of you there. I called my agent, and I was like, son of a bitch, I did this. He's like, you did what? I was like, I did that.

You assaulted the coach. Yeah, I did. So then I started to battle some anxiety on all the shit that I had done. And eventually, we're playing Chicago, and I couldn't sleep the night before, full of anxiety. So I wake up the next day. We have morning skate, and I'm like, I just need a little nap. And you remember you used to come off the plane, and they used to hand us the little white packet, and it would just be like a pill.

Like you need help sleeping, and you just get a pill. Or something hurt, you just get a pill and like a thing. There's like no description. It wasn't like a pill bottle. It was just an envelope. Yeah, just an envelope. So it was an Ambien, and I didn't know There was like no description. It wasn't like a pill bottle. It was just an envelope. Yeah, just an envelope. So it was an Ambien and I didn't know

like what Ambien did. Like I just thought it helped you fall asleep. So I take, I go back after pregame and I was like, I just need a couple hours and I'll be good to go.

I take an Ambien. Day of the game. I took an Ambien at 2.30 in the afternoon. My alarm goes off at 4. He was like, that's your bed night. my arm goes off at four and i don't have a brain i walk downstairs to the walgreens and i'm going like one eye trying to get i grab like a five hour energy and then there's a i'm in shock right now because you said you had an

ambien so you took a fucking ambien before you're freaking so. So I say, screw that. There's a four-pack. I take the four-pack. I go to the rink. I can't talk to anybody. Like, literally, I can't think. We're out there playing, and I'm staying on the end of the bench in Chicago. Remember, it butts up.

The visitor on this side of Chicago is over here. I'm staying on this end. I don't want Randy to call my number at all. I can't play. I think, okay, at least I can hit something tonight so i got seabrook lined up behind and that oh he's hard to hit fuck you'll get your reverse hit every time especially when you took an ambient you get you every time i go with everything i got right at seabrook on the four check boom miss him by three feet i did nothing but glass i couldn't see him

i go back to the bench i sit on the end and all the guys are looking at me like what the miss him by three feet. I did nothing but glance. I couldn't see him. I go back to the bench. I sit on the end. And all the guys are looking at me like, what the fuck was that? And I was like, I can't talk. And then I think it was Patrick Sharp was on the other bench. He goes, hey, why is your face so red? I was like,

I took an Ambien for lunch. You said that to him? He goes, he goes, he goes, hey guys, he took a fucking Ambien for lunch. You said that to him? He goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes, hey guys,

he took a fucking Ambien for lunch! Next time he's out there, have him in. All their heads go like, they're just like, what? And then for the rest of the game,

like, they were sweet dudes, like, they were taking care of me after that. They were. That's awesome. Yeah,

like, dude, you doing all right? All right, here's what I'm going to do, you know? Oh my God. I'm telling you, the whole shift before the puck drops, that is fucking nuts. So I took an Ambien for lunch. I didn awesome. They're like, dude, you doing all right? All right, here's what I'm going to do. Oh, my God. Telling you the whole shift before the puck drops.

That is fucking nuts. So it took an ambient for lunch. I didn't know it was like a full eight-hour thing. I thought it would just help me fall asleep, but it was tough. Waking up from an ambient after two hours of sleep, you're on another planet. I could spend another 40 minutes asking you about this whole experience. I just kept chugging five-hour energy, saying it would balance me out. It was not the case.

No, no, no. How many minutes do you think you played that game? It doesn't matter. I bet you maybe six, but it felt like 300. Hey, it would have been sick if you ended up scoring a hattie and kind of being like the old Pittsburgh – who's the baseball team? The Pirates? The Pirates.

Didn't the guy do acid and then show up and pitch a perfect game? Oh, Doc Ellis, yeah. Some guy put a perfect game on acid. That would have been cool if he would have scored a hattie on Bam Bam. That would have been cool. It would probably be a lot better. Instead, I missed Seabrook by a mile, and that's the highlight. Seabrook's like, what the hell is this guy doing?

I love playing against this guy. So you've had a lot of silly moments in your career. One of them I read was you got your arm stuck in a camera hole during a game. Yeah, that one sucked. Where was that, in Anaheim as well? In Anaheim. So believe it or not, I think at one point I was actually a prospect. So you get a chance to play with a decent skill guys. I never got that.

I was playing with Team Mussolini and things were going well. I was scoring not a lot, but starting to score, getting a chance. I was playing the wing and the puck was coming up the wall kind of slow defensive zone yeah and it was in anaheim so and the d-man had pinched so i kind of had him a little bit but i was waiting waiting waiting he was going to

eventually catch me i picked the puck off the wall and i go to throw it to the middle and he's coming back hard and he just hits me like rubs me out but my arm goes like this and then the camera holds right here and it just keeps going through and then my body and the leverage keeps me going i roll past it my arm's stuck in the camera hole so then just it could just go snap my arm but my glove stayed on and everything i just go right back to the bench and my glove was on i go into the room and i was like is like you guys ready they're like are you ready i was like, you guys ready? They're like, are you ready? I was like, yes. So then I just pull my glove off, and my wrist and thumb are all busted and twisted. You guys got a granola bar or something?

Oh, fuck. That's really bad luck, though. I needed a power bar. Bad. No, you needed an Ambien. I was like, green, dude. Yeah, I was like, give me a power bar. I need something. I didn't know you were injured from it.

That's crazy. How much time? Oh, fuck. That's terrible. I'm getting a chance with timu too i was like of course yeah yeah i know but uh yeah so the camera holes i went back i had surgery i went back the next day every camera hole in the arena was changed out that's what yeah i've noticed sometimes they like clog them up now but yeah it kind of ends up being especially how big they are in some rinks yeah they could be very dangerous. Getting something caught in the way. Didn't someone get a finger caught in one recently?

But yeah, sorry to hear that, man. Buzz Killington biz over here. No, no, I mean, that's a crazy part of your career. I mean, I feel like you're, you must know yourself more as like a devil and like things in Anaheim didn't go great for you right randy couldn't stand you right when you finally got out of there i'm guessing it was a relief right yeah no there's no question and i didn't know like you don't if that's that was the

only organization i played with i think that you think that's the nhl everywhere right and no and i'm wasn't fun it was tough right but we won and it was good teams um and then eventually you get a new chance and you're with a new club and they do things different and it's like wow dude hockey's kind of funny yeah i'm not even to leave anaheim too quick because do you have any funny memories of prongs remember how you'd be like clarky oh like play but yeah my favorite he must have given it to you once in a while oh all the time well prongs was yeah and remember back in the day too like they would set the rookies up like you couldn't go in the elevator. The buffet line, you didn't eat until you were the last guy off.

But probably the most memorable thing is Prongs would come into the arena every day with the Wall Street Journal. And then he'd lay on the massage table with his face through the hole and put the Wall Street Journal on the ground. But then he'd always have to have NCIS on the TV, too. He wasn't even watching it. No, he'd never watch a thing. But he couldn't have anything else that you wanted to watch on, and then you'd ask him about reading the Wall Street Journal, and he'd snap at you because I don't think he actually read it. I thought he did crosswords.

I thought he crushed crosswords, too. Yeah, whatever he was doing with the paper. Yeah. What, massage table face down? He'd get, like, two of them and hand it off to George to finish it. Yeah. Yeah,

because you were playing with George for a little bit too, right? Yeah. With Peros? Yeah. Oh yeah.

So he was probably, he was doing the crosswords. George could finish a crossword in like seven minutes. That's what I heard, that's what I heard. He was in the locker room, the hardest one in the,

what's the Sunday paper the hardest? Yeah, as the week goes on it gets harder I believe. Yeah, the Sunday New York Times one's a big one. Oh really? Yeah, that's a big one. You've crushed those ones already? No, not me, it gets harder, I believe. Yeah, the Sunday New York Times one's a big one.

Oh, really? Yeah, it's a big one. You crush those ones, all right. No, not me. I don't read the Times. But sticking with Anaheim, we've got to talk about the cup run. You play in Portland all year, and then you get called up. Your first NHL game was a playoff game, correct?

Yeah. I mean, you got thrown right into the mix. Yeah, again. That's a Randy move, though. Shit my pants. So, yeah, I played all year in Portland. I didn't think I was ever going to get a chance to play. That's a Randy move, though. Shit my pants. So, yeah, I played all year in Portland. I didn't think I was ever going to get a chance to play.

Prongs ends up getting suspended. Something happened. They're playing Detroit, and they just wanted bigger bodies, a bigger lineup. So they call me, and I screen the call because I didn't recognize the number. It was the coaches. Where were you? I was in my hotel room. Okay.

But we're in Anaheim, Black Aces. Yep. And this was the Western Conference Final, so I was in my hotel room. Okay. But we're in Anaheim, Black Aces. Yep. And this was the Western Conference Finals, so I've been there two rounds, right? I'm not playing. Right. Just getting boozed up every night after DMX. Yeah, but trying to hide it, you know? Yeah, crushing afternoon bam-bams. So I get a call, and it says you better not be on the beach and come in with the tandem

model because you're playing. So I call back like 30 seconds. They're like, yeah, no, absolutely. I'm actually working out at the gym at the hotel right here. Oh, my. No. Just finished my meditation session. Exactly.

I was doing visualization on my breakouts. Yeah, I go in, and I do end up playing the game. And I remember sitting on the bench, and Team Mussolini was right next to me. And at that point, that was the furthest he had ever been in the playoffs right like hall of fame dude my first NHL game is in the playoff game the furthest Timu has ever been in the playoffs I was like do not screw this up yeah and he's just like relax kid oh really yeah first shift go out minus one I was like man the NHL is legit. This is fun. That was a good ride. I'm not getting another shift.

I will remember. We started waving to the crowd. Exit off the Zamboni door entrance. It was like Bertuzzi and Chelios, too, that backdoored me. So I was the center man, and they just like tic-tac-toe backdoor, minus one, boom, sweet. Just getting cheesy. Okay, so given the hostility between you and Randy throughout your tenure there,

after that incident with Annette, did it ever come to you to maybe go to him and say, Randy, stupid mistake, or did you ever have that conversation with him? No, no, no, I didn't. So there are a lot of other Randy stories. So one time I go into the office, and it's like Sheldon, Brookbank, myself, I think maybe like Brett Festerling, and somebody else. Great guys.

All great guys. All great guys. Both those names are good people. And he just shows us two clips, and it's of Getzoff just getting hit, just like a hit. And he goes, this is the Kings. I think it was, I don't remember who hit him. But he goes, just so you guys know, that happened last game.

And we all kind of look at each other like, that happens every game. I guess he's a big boy, too. So we go out of the office. We're like, okay, whatever. And then Randy wants me to play more like a rat. We go to L.A., and I hit Dustin Brown hard twice. I take a board and, like, a rough. Second penalty was late in the game.

I think we're down two. I come out of the box and randy who loved to bench me stale stale oh okay um and then we go for an offensive zone face-off but again i never got right and he puts uh dan sexton and bobby ryan with. This is after I run their captain hard twice and just come out of the box. I'm like, you fucker. I know what you want. So they drop the puck, and the winger goes right to the bench, and Reitus, how do you say his name?

Yvonis. Yvonis comes off. He's chasing me. He goes, let's go. I was in this game. Yeah, he goes, let's go. I said, fuck you, Reitus. No, no chance.

He goes, don's go. I said, fuck you, right? I said, no, no chance. He goes, don't be pussy. Don't be pussy. So I look around like, I'm at Staples Center. He's actually right. I am being a pussy. I was like, all right, right. So you catch me, I'll fight you, you fucker. So I was running up and down trying to get them all tired,

hoping that eventually my lungs are bigger and I'll have a chance. And I thought maybe I just get in tight, tight tie up and we'll see what happens it's a good game plan man you thought that's quick on your toes right there i go into the corner pretend like i don't know he's calling wait wait wait look over my shoulder he's calling he's coming throwing my stuff turn around to grab him and he jumps back you're like no i needed that grab i needed that grab no i'm squared up he's like six seven two fifty we're squaring up i'm like well this is this is gonna go well he hits me with the left right off the bat and introduces my nose to my ear no that's why it looks like that oh my god over here so i go right off of the ice and into the doctor's room doc's like giving me small talk and then eventually just

squeezes my nose boom eventually sets it go back to the locker room and uh the trainers are cleaning my face up and randy comes fucking waddling down remember la they had the one training table this way and then the long hallway yeah so he's walking down the hallway right at me and then he turns his back to me right in front of this table and he says over his shoulder like this so he's walking down the hallway right at me and then he turns his back to me right in front of this table and he says over his shoulder like this like he's like you shouldn't fucking fight guys like that not only did we lose the game we got our ass kicked too and then he walks off dude so i lost how mean is that after you get after you get a chris fucking jury from the top that he was one after telling me the day before that gets you got hit and you didn't do anything I actually kind of

love him for saying that to you though because here we are and everybody gets a chuckle Rick from Red Deer is fucking howling in his pickup truck hey you must have been like

he walks away you're like oh you did you snap I lost my shit yeah fuck you right so then I go

I have to go everybody's like chill I have to go take a shower I'm in the shower I come out and I forgot that I'd broken my nose I rub my face

and I hit my nose and it goes right back over. It's like, right back over. So I got to go back to the doctor's chair. He goes, I don't have any more. He tries it a couple times. It doesn't work because I don't have anything else to do. He's like, I got to put this cast on your face. So he cuts out like a 4x4 square, and he puts it on my face.

And the next game we played, we had ducks and tucks. I actually got out of that one, which I was happy about. But the next game we play we had ducks and tucks i actually got out of that one which i was happy about but the next game we played was an nbc game and i think he wanted me to be all embarrassed with a cast on my face or have to say i couldn't play so he's like if you can play you're in what a fucking guy on my face so i go home with the old lady and i stick my head over a boiling pot of water, and we have to peel it off because I wasn't going to tell Randy that I couldn't play. And I certainly wasn't going to play with a cast on my face. No, not on the NBC game.

LeBron did it. LeBron did it. They started doing those things in basketball. Yeah. Yeah. It's clear, though. That was one. The other time where I did try to have a chat with him

um we we always dress like 13 forwards for warm-up and i was the 13th forward and legit my whole career somebody got sick somebody got sick and i'm there in warm-up and instead he called peros who was in hermosa beach to drive up george got there for like, after the game started to play. Oh my God. Are you fucking kidding me? He was sitting in the room. I'm sitting there waiting. I take warm up and I still couldn't play. So I go up to him like two days later.

It's like you crushed his old lady or something. I was like, Randy, why the fuck am I there as the 13th forward if somebody goes down? I'm still not even playing. Right? Like I'm still not going to play. He's like, I was like, that was embarrassing to me in front of the team. Like, everything. Like, that is a kick in the nuts.

He's like, I don't see it that way. I was like, I'm sorry, that's the way it is. You dressed me, and then you actually needed me, but still I couldn't do it. You never needed me. And I've consulted every guy on the team about it, and they think the same. They're like, go and have a talk with him, Cart. So then I actually had to request a trade.

And I was like, I go upstairs. It was hard for me to do this, too. I go upstairs and I was like, to Bob Murray's office. Oh, another easy guy to talk to. I was like, hey, this is, you know, things aren't really going that well. I'd like to maybe look at other options. He's like, no shit. You think I haven't been trying to trade you? I was like, I've been trying to trade you? Oh, my God.

I've been trying to trade you for a year. There's like a tag team. Oh, my God. This is awesome. A tag team. This is awesome. No shit I've been trying. This is unbelievable.

So then I'm like ready to end it all. I tell you, let's just go to San Diego. Let's go to the zoo. Let's try to enjoy life a little bit. I'm at the zoo and I get a call. Hey, you're being put on waivers. You've been traded. And then, boom, I was out in Carolina.

Oh, so were you on waivers or traded? I think we need a few minutes to digest all that. They put me through waivers. Oh, that's kind of a panic, right? Yes. And then I got traded. So they needed contracts. I think contracts had to switch.

So Carolina needed a warm body, but they needed to get rid of contracts. So after I cleared waivers, trade. Oh, my God. Wow. Nonetheless, interesting, but you said you got to move over to, after that it was New Jersey? It was Carolina, Florida, then New Jersey. Then New Jersey. Is New Jersey where you had the best time of your playing career in the NHL?

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It was fun. We had a good run there, too, my first year there to the finals, 2012. You had a good playoff, too. You had five tucks in the playoff. Yeah, it was fun. And we played a role and contributed, which really mattered, too. You know, that was fun.

Who were you playing with? Bernier. What was the line called? The CBGB line? CBGB line. Yeah. Yeah. What's that?

Steve Bernier? The CBGB line? CBGB line. Yeah. Yeah. What's that? Steve Bernier? Yeah. Who else? It was CBGB's Carter Bernier and the Gionta brother. Oh, Steve and Gionta. I played with him at USA. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow, that was your guy's line. Yeah. So just a four check, just straight lines, boom. But the coach trusted us and we played. And we'd score eventually, wear teams down, and just we'd get, you know, we'd jump on rebounds and score. And L.A. was just something though, huh? That team was a wagon.

Yeah. Well, we lost two games. At that point when we hit the finals, they hadn't lost a game on the road yet. So we were the sixth seed. They were the eighth seed. We were the home team. They came to Jersey. We lost the first two games in OT.

Had we won one of those and they lost the game, maybe it would have been a different story. That's the shit it could have would have, but... Who scored both games for LA, you remember? Kopitar scored one, and I don't know who the other... Yeah, it's like you don't forget. No, yeah, he remembers if his team's I remember the close calls we had and who had them. Yeah, yeah. Dustin Brown

eliminated us in five games, and then they went on to play you guys. So we would have met you guys in that yeah you're in the final but uh yeah but but but nonetheless though that uh was that the year where Bernier ended up getting suspended in like game five that was hard to watch man we are the number one PK I know I don't like D-men for this reason they're smart um but you get on the forecheck you like you know hey hey yes we're on the ice we're gonna forecheck we have to hit you like i have to hit you right but skidary had the puck and he's coming up around the net kind of like this um and i forget which way he shoots but

left left yeah so he's coming up this way and bernie's coming so he pulls the plug and turns and goes to back the other way bernie has to hit him has to hit him he's so close you're saying that he couldn't have not no but no exactly yeah and he's moving so fast right but he plasters him kind of in the numbers he gets a five minute major you got cut i remember he got cut all over the nose yeah and scuds is not the type of guy to like lay down a tough player so i think that's what kind of did him in right yeah and it's not it's not his fault at all but that's just like smart do you do that like they they the puck, they'll turn it instead of just taking a huge hit, right? And he took it in the back,

five-minute major, boom. We had the number one PK in the league that year. I think we were probably, honestly, we maybe had given up 12 all year and we had scored 10. We were good. Oh, shit. Yeah, we were good. That's changing games sometimes. And they scored three in that five-minute major. That was it. That's gotta be the worst.

That was game five? Yeah, that was game six. That was the clinching game? Clinching game. It was series over in the first period, right? So they scored three, and then all the wind was out of our sail. Boom, done. I think they beat us 6-1. He must have been on that shot.

That sucks for Steve Bernier. That's got to be the worst feeling in the world. Yeah, and I think it was. It's one of those things that you don't talk about. And it wasn't his fault. If it was me, I would have done the exact same thing, exact same spot, right in the box, right? Because that's what we had to do.

Yeah, that's how your line had gotten to where you were. Yeah, that's what we had to do. Yeah, absolutely. If it was me, same exact scenario. Go ahead, Art. Let's say you played with one of our recent guests who was wildly popular, Patrick Elias, Hall of Fame caliber player. What was it like playing with him?

Did you ever skate on a line with him at all? No, by that point I was no longer a prospect. You're a suspect. No, I didn't play with Patty at all. Patty was way too skilled. But he was fun. I always enjoyed getting to know the Eastern European guys. They're a little different.

They're wired a little different. Oh, yeah, definitely. But he was good, smart. I always loved like watching him like handle the puck and he's one of those stick nerds too. We always had it like his way. Geppetto. Yeah.

We call them Geppettos. They're always in there working on their curve. Peter Muriller must have had two new sticks come to him like twice a week. Yeah, one of those types of guys. He was one of those guys? Yeah, no, but he was probably one of the all-time great devils. I mean, there's no question about it, right? No doubt. And Dubois

was your coach all three years, too. Are you surprised with the success he's had since then? No, I'm not. He's a great coach. He was a great coach. So the reason I ended up in Jersey, big fan of the waiver wire, I was, I got traded to Carolina, i got hurt traded while hurt to florida was meant for that contract just to end i think it was just like a moving money out deal i had torn my oblique but i was like hey if i don't come back and play there's a chance i never play again so i played like eight or nine games at the

end of that year for pete deborah he ended up getting fired as soon as that season was over, but I played those eight games for him. I was back in Florida the next year on a two-way deal, and Kevin Dineen was the new head coach. He was going to send me down to the minors after probably like seven or eight games, but I had to go through waivers. Go through waivers, and then Pete claimed me from New Jersey. Wow.

I played those games for him. Very cool. I showed him enough. I could take this guy. I like this guy. He'd be on my fourth or third line. Yeah, so Pete after the Florida thing was like, I really like what you brought. You didn't have to play like that. You didn't have to do these things. Really appreciate what you did in that spot.

And that was the year in meeting and then next year. So as a coach is he very system oriented? A lot of video breakdown? Yeah, a lot of detail. A lot of detail. a lot of detail like you'll watch video but you'll be very prepared and you'll know what you have to do but i think he's also honest like this is your role this is what i need you to do uh i don't need you to score

so don't feel like you have to and i'll take care of you like you'll get a deal if you need one but don't feel like you have to score just don't get scored on. He's one of those guys, right? That's a great feeling. Oh, wow. You don't have to score? That's the greatest. I would have sucked my coach off to hear the words come out of his mouth. He's like, no, bitch, you still need to be able to flick it off the glass. Yeah, oh. On the ice with a stick. Oh, okay, well, no, no.

There's a tradeoff? There's got to be a tradeoff? Oh, shit, I got to do something. Oh, fuck, oh. We kind of glanced over Florida, but that's a cool story from there. Any other experiences while playing there? In Florida? It was so fast.

No, there's not a lot other than no hockey stories, really. We had one where my dog almost got choked out at a dog park. That was a different scenario. By a human? Yeah, by a human. Did you go home? That's what I thought I had to do, but I think the person maybe was a little handicapped, and I didn't know how to handle the situation. By a human? Yeah, by a human. Did you go home? That's what I thought I had to do, but I think the person maybe was a little handicapped,

and I didn't know how to handle the situation. So I was watching the life be squeezed out of my dog right there in front of me. My wife is ripping me apart. I was like, I don't think I can touch this person. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. That's like a curb your enthusiasm moment. You could hear the life being squeezed out of my... Your dog's like, why aren't you helping me?

I know. Wow. What about in Jersey? We chatted on the way up to the car. Hey, to be fair, what did your dog do to him? I have a little French bulldog. My dog didn't do anything. I just probably loved him, hugged him.

That's a dog guy asking that, too. I'd like to see the video. We'll send it to player safety. George. Hey, we'll get it to George. We'll get it to George. Maybe he got three games saucy. Right, yeah.

Put him down. We were talking on the ride up about the infamous brawl that you were a part of with the devils and the rangers can you take me through like how that all went down when you realized it was going to be that way we've hashed that story out so again i always feel like i'm so dumb i didn't know we were gonna fight but i was the only person in that building that didn't think so right and it's out to lunch a little bit sometimes. Yeah, apparently. But you've got to hear me out. So they come to New Jersey probably three weeks before,

and they start their fourth line against our first line. So they run Colby, Parisi, and Pete, again, says, like, okay, Kurtz, you guys go. So we're, like, next up, and I fight Brandon Dubinsky. We watch the fight like we got a couple dry loafs. It was really early in the game. I fight Dubinsky and I think I hit him. I think he hurt his face and he was out. Didn't play a game again since.

We're sitting in that visiting room and starting lineups come in. Dubinsky from my understanding has a shield on. I'd broken his face three weeks earlier. There's no chance we're fighting. It wasn't even close to my mind. It's a hard first shift. We go out there and Dubinsky's getting ready to take earlier, there's no chance we're fighting. That's not, like, it wasn't even in close my mind. It's like a hard first shift, right?

So we go out there, and Dubinsky's getting ready to take the draw, and then goes back to the point. And then the D-man comes up to take the draw. So then I was like... It was Stu Bickle. Yeah. That's when I was like, okay, we're fighting. And Stu's like, Stu's like, we're going. I was like, I fucking get it, Stu.

I know. But I'm screaming at Dubinsky. I was like, what the fuck are you doing out here? Yeah, he's tough. Stu's tough, too. I played against him in fucking get it, Stu. I know, but I'm screaming at Dubinsky. I was like, what the fuck are you doing out here? Stu's top, too. I played against him in San Diego. He's a tough fucking prick. Yeah, he's big, too. So I'm screaming at Dubinsky, what are you doing out here?

And then I'm screaming at Torrell. I was like, he shouldn't fucking be out here. And you don't even know your winger's going to be going either. No, I have no clue. That's how hot I am. I have no clue what's going on anywhere else. So all of a sudden, the puck drops, and I wanted to win the draw. It's too big. I couldn't take a loss versus a D. I got on a second swipe.

But, yeah. Just going out, just battling. Second swipe. I know. You both missed it once. It's just like hopping. I think they gave him credit for the face-off win, too, which I'm actually pretty proud of.

No. We'll call the league. We'll go. We'll slow-mo it. We'll call it. I won it. But, yeah., we'll go. We'll slow-mo it. I want it. But, yeah, so then we fight.

And, again, the way it works is there's a good fight. We go down. But the referees don't jump in ever. It's just the linesmen. Yeah. Right? So the linesmen are with the big boys. And then the ref is with me.

So I hit Bickle. We go down. And then there's no way to stop it. So get back up again we start going again and that's what he tags me right between my eyes just booms this was supposed to be over yeah i thought we were done so i'm bleeding everywhere then uh we go down again this one uh i think i'm down and uh bryce salvador comes flying in because there's still there's no linesman and the ref is just sitting there with a notepad. Right? So Bryce comes in.

I'm not catching a spare one. Bryce gets two, five, ten, whatever. He's out for that game suspended. I'm in the box for five. Yeah, a bunch of stitches and stuff, but I needed more than five minutes. But it was a pretty cool moment. I mean, that was old-school hockey. I remember exactly where I was watching that.

You know Mike Hoffman? Yes. Yeah. Hoffman texted me after that when I played with him in the American League. He said, dude,

you just bought yourself two more years in the NHL. Yeah, exactly. That single play. And he wasn't wrong. he was in that brawl. He wasn't wrong.

Two-year deal right after that. I think that that's a very fair statement as much as we think we're kidding. It's like, you're the relevancy,

your name's popping up. Other GMs say, oh, he's willing to mix it up. Stuff like that matters. Not only that, the market matters too. That was New York, Madison Square Garden Sunday. If that's Anaheim versus L.A., it's on the highlights, but that's kind of like whatever. It's over, right?

Yep. You got anything else? All right. Like I say, a lot of guys we've talked to this week, you got to play for your hometown team. You finished up in Minnesota, right? Yeah. That must have been quite a throw for you.

Or was it? Was it like nerve-wracking because everyone wants tickets and all that shit? No, I was, yeah, so playing at home I think would have been a distraction early on. I was old enough to where it really wasn't a big deal, a really big source of pride for me. My parents are from St. Paul. In Minnesota, the way it works is like like, the hockey team is St. Paul. The other sports are kind of Minneapolis sports.

So the fact that my folks are from St. Paul, it's the hockey team in St. Paul. Their kid gets to play for them. Like, it was kind of sweet and fun. At that time, I had children, too, so super special to share that moment with your kids. You got pictures. You got to show them, you know. You played in an outdoor game with Minnie, right? Yeah, we had the game at TCF here.

And then you had a golden assist, I believe? Yeah. Holy shit, that's a showing. There's got to be good pictures of that. That's got to be one of the most special moments of your career, spirit out biz? Yeah. Fucking struggling here.

You're in the fucking draw against Bickle. It probably was one of the highlights. Again, for me, the image that's probably burned into my mind that I recall from the playing days was after that game, Minnesota outside, snow was flying the first 20 minutes, scored, eye black on. I think it was missing a tooth. But after the game, post-game, little sweat.

You got that look still, but I got two chubby little kids with me. That's the best picture I've ever seen. Yeah, it's my favorite. That's awesome. That really brought it whole circle. Because as much as you love playing and stuff, man, when you can bring your family into it, it's great. That's one thing that bums me out is my boys will never.

Because they're like, oh, you pitch and you didn't play. Right, right. Makes me want to dump a few of my old lady and make a comeback. That's what it makes me want to do. He's like, Dad, I don't want to watch you in the United States professional football smash hockey league. You're a fucking asshole. Oh, my God.

Anything else from the many days? I know we've took a lot of your time here. What about, I mean, watching the Wild now, pretty sick club. You get to kind of go over their play and they're really owning teams at certain points. points yeah so the tv stuff was kind of nerve wracking at first and i don't know how it was for you jumping in i get nervous fuck i get nervous asking a goddamn question as you can tell but i went from to like playing with a lot of the guys

like the core of that team i played with them right up to the broadcast booth and it's hard to like be bingo you don't want to be too critical you can't be critical because one you know you're talking to like their parents their wife like they're watching right and you're friends with these people but at the same time like if that dude makes a mistake everybody else watching knows that dude made a mistake and you gotta say it right yeah there's a fine line between like credibility but also you know trying to you know be professional and like you know protect them a little bit right and And the thing for me was most guys were a lot better than I was, so who the fuck am I to be like, oh, yeah, what a terrible play here?

No, it's just like you more compliment the other team in mistakes that your team makes. Right, right, exactly. And for me it got to a point where it was like, okay, like, cognitively, you don't want to jeopardize a friendship for a job or for something like that, so you're just going to all take an L in terms of everybody else or credibility as long as you're not calling a guy out. But it's a lot better now because a lot of those guys have moved on, like have gotten older.

And this is a fun team to watch and talk about and call because they just play like the right way. They score. I mean, you know, there's always a storyline. You've got guys like Hartman, Erickson, that guy. That makes it so easy. Yeah, and guys that didn't get opportunities at other places or earlier in their career, they are now,

and they're just lighting it up, right? Like, it's like, man, this is fun. It's great. And Bill Guerin's done a good job with the culture and setting it, and Dean Evason's an awesome coach, I think. Yeah, they really like him. Yeah, he's great. Good communicator.

Who's the guy who looks like Creed? So they said yes creed so they said yes already just told me that the fans had said that i looked at this one picture i was laughing out loud like it's legit him and then i think spurgeon mentioned after a week he's like hey yeah social media guy got a pp that's not a thing that's not i'm not free yeah so it was not so just so you know and then biz saw him and he said everyone everyone thinks I'm always mad all the time like I think he's got that intense look

but the guys loved him so well he yeah he cuts you with his eyes like he looks intense but he's a great dude and easy to talk to

I think the guys like playing for him well dude this has been phenomenal thanks for coming out here it's been a real blast for us great interview

and man you had a really good career for somebody no for somebody who you didn't really expect to ever play just just under 500 games that's incredible yeah congrats buddy thanks man i appreciate it yeah it's for a guy who didn't have an age coming up here oh this is great i i it's like a video game like the technology like you can see the fish and the hook and stuff it's it's like a combination video game it's like a duck hunter a little bit

yeah this is just like ready player One. Yeah, good stuff. Not bad career for a guy who didn't have an agent until he turned pro. That's right. No, I always say that. Ten years, I played ten years on two years of talent,

so that's a lot better. I was able to grind eight of them up. Thanks, MSGTV. And that was quite a day on the lake. I left a little of my soul on that lake. i can't say

where it was of course but great time with kotz thanks again for coming out uh this year also marked the return of jr to the pod and well indiana jones ain't got nothing on this guy so next up is crazy man himself jeremy rome oh it's just a quick one about sorry we'll get back to this but i met your buddy last night craig he's with Talk It, and he said I had to ask you, did you catch a rattlesnake and then drive home with it in your car holding it the whole time? Yep. Yeah, so I have a couple.

I had like three or four rattlesnake stories from Whisper Off. He goes he carried it while driving with one hand. He was holding it with the other hand the whole time. Yeah, so the first one I had, I was playing a big money match, and I was on the 13th hole and I'm down. I think I'm down like twenty five hundred bucks and I have a double press going to par five. Ten, eleven, twelve, twelve, par five going up the hill at the upper Whisper Rock. And I'm just I'm like I'm flailing. Right. I'm just not in my zone, and I need to win this hole. And we're walking up the fairway, and I'm way behind

because I had to get something to eat or went to the bathroom. And there's this rattlesnake that was coming across the fairway, and I was playing against a couple guys, and I picked the rattlesnake up on the fairway, and I started running towards the guy I was playing. And he turned around and saw me, and he saw I had the stake in my hand. And the look of death came over his face. And if you ever would have seen a 275-pound guy do, like, the 50-yard dash in 3.2 seconds,

and he's screaming. He's screaming like a bitch. I, you know, get away from me i you know literally i chased him up the fairway he gets to his next shot and he's literally he's shaken he can't even move and i win the next three or four holes and end up catching up because i chased him with a snake he was so flustered he couldn't even play with himself. And then the one I was actually walking out to my car and the rattlesnake was in the parking lot. So again, I pick it up and it wraps around my arm and I have it,

have them right tucked in. And, and I, I only live like two miles from the course. And I said, I wanted to scare my wife with it. So I drove home. So I'm holding the snake and i'm driving home and i go into my into my house with the snake and my wife's making the bed and i said honey i brought someone home i brought a friend home for lunch i hope you don't mind and i put the snake right next to her and if you ever seen someone jump and clamp her nails and feet into the ceiling and she i i had to sleep she, I had to sleep in it. I had

to sleep in the guest room for two nights. She was so mad at me. My last story is like, you guys, you guys know Whisper Rock when you come out of the, out of the men's grill, there's a little walkway to the parking lot. Well, as I came out, there was a big bull snake, like a massive bull snake. Now, they're not poisonous. They're just big. And I picked up the bull snake, and I brought it into the men's grill. And Vinny Del Negro was having breakfast by himself. He was sitting at the table.

And I went behind him, and I let the snake come. I put it on his shoulder, and the snake crawled up right here while he was eating breakfast. And he jumped the whole table. The whole breakfast flew over. He ran into the men's locker room. And again, with a screech that you would never forget that came out of a grown man's mouth. I thought he was going to have a total heart attack.

Thanks again to JR. Welcome back to the show. Great having you. Now here's a word from our friends at Sling TV. Sling TV has something for everyone. All your favorite shows on your favorite channels, all right at your fingertips. So if you're looking for sports, Sling's got you covered with pro and college football and basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, golf, racing, you name it, they got it. Sling also has reality TV, so you can keep up with the latest gossip and today's hottest shows on channels like TLC, Bravo, MTV, and more. You like news? They got plenty of that as well. Feeling adventurous? Explore thousands of that as well. Feeling adventurous?

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Sign up and start watching in just five minutes. You can stream on any device and record up to 50 hours with included DVR space. This offer ends August 4th. So sign up at sling.com slash barstool and start watching free live TV today. Well, whenever you see or hear this guy, it's an instant smile. And it was great to have his long away to return to the chicklet show. And now enjoy the comedic stylings of Colby Armstrong.

This story has probably been told, I don't know, 10 times on this pod, but we've never heard it from you or I haven't since I've been on. The one about your first AHL fight. NHL, right? No, it was American League. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know if it was my first fight, to be honest with you, that one, the Gavin Morgan beatdown.

Yeah. Beatdown in Salt Lake City. I think because we have so many new listeners, we got to tee this up for them. honest with you that one the gavin morgan beat down yeah beat down in salt lake city i think i think because we have so many new listeners we gotta tee this up for them well i always hear you guys reference it too i love when you crack it out like i hear you on tnt stories you're like check the game notes bud it's a great line it's lexicon yeah and it is and you're the reason it happened you created an iconic line in hockey. Oh, it's so true. You got to check the game notes. I went through a bad phase where I thought I'd play better

if I didn't check the game notes. Just like I'd play better if I didn't wear my mouth guard. Do you guys ever do stuff like that? Oh, yeah. Buddy, I played without a jock at one point. And then in a Pittsburgh Penguins training camp, somebody was dumping it in. I think it was Don Char.

And he got me right in the ball bag. I couldn't finish the rest of this scrimmage game and then and they're like like among all the stupid shit i did in that organization like getting in bar fights like they were like what's you know what's going on i'm like i got hit right in the balls and they're like well okay and i'm like i'm not wearing a jock and then i think that trickled up and then another trip to the fucking he didn't hey he didn't wear a jock because he he said uh maybe if i catch one in the dick it'll make me last a little longer in bed yeah bugsy talked me into it oh yeah that's what bugsy would do that for sure he'd be a little lighter here with the hammock oh but uh well yeah with that i i was just going

through a weird thing. Cause you know, the game's 90% mental. Right. So I was like, just, you know, I figured if I don't look at the other team's game notes and I just play them straight up, I'm not overthinking it. Like I just prepare, like, I'm going to play great. I don't want to prepare. Like I, I know that guy has 90 points or I know that guy, you know, does this, I'm just going to play. And I was like a way, I don't know why I went into that phase where I wasn't reading the game notes for a while. I wouldn't even look at them.

Some put in my stall. I wouldn't even touch them. I didn't want to touch them. Well, needless to say, yeah, check the game notes, boys. I get out there. Gavin Morgan, like smaller, skilled guy. I actually talked to him about this, too. He loves it.

He loves it. He got an eye injury apparently and he was wearing a visor so he's like a little visor guy like pretty decent player but like feisty but i was i was back checking to the net front on a rush and he we kind of met at the same time at like the back post and i he's i got my stick up real high on him like right up in his throat and he like went down he got, he came to swing at me. I gave him the old slip, like, so he like windmilled by me. And then I threw him down on the ground again, like just big dog at him.

Like, you know, then I go sit in the penalty box. He comes by on captain Morgan, one leg up, like gives me the throat slit. And I'm like, Oh, here we go. I was like, here we go. Then we're in the box. He he's he's yelling at me he throws a water ball at me hit someone in the running the score clock in the head he goes sorry just starts giving it to me again I'm like this is crazy so then our penalties are up like the coincidentals and we got to skate back across the bench up to the bench across the ice and that's when I was on the bench and I was all fired up. I'm like, I'm going, this guy, he's little like perfect, perfect. Like I got this guy, I'm just going to string them out. And I looked down the

bench after I was telling all the boys, I'm going to fight this guy next shift for sure. We're going, I looked down his trainers, taking his, his visor off. Cause I guess he never really wore a visor. He just had like a, he like took a puck in the eye and he had to wear a visor. So his trainers like taking his visor off. I see him. He's just like, like making a cast on his wrist with tape. Like he's like looking up at me, taping his wrist, keeps looking over. And then, yeah, that's when I next shift got out there right by the penalty boxes. Again, he came at me, made a little play, kind of sucked them in a little pop pass to the middle, cold shoulder to him. He goes down, gave him the old cold shoulder. He goes down. now's your chance kid as he's getting up i'm like let's fucking go baby i draw my gloves we score off he just grabs me like what kind of what kind of what kind of what kind of

what kind of what kind of right to the ice like uppercut city i'm going off the ice or like slow mowing it on the jumbotron i can barely see out my eyes oh just brutal beat down And that's like Salt Lake city rink where they played like the Olympics. Like it was like, it was like one of the nicer rinks at the time that I played in the minors. It was, it was nice. And I get back in the room and I'm like, the game ends and I'm like looking in the mirror in the bathroom, like looking at my face, like almost like emotional, like I'm like embarrassed, you know, you know, you're like almost crying.

And I'm like, and dag dag that's when daggle alexander dag comes up to me throws the game notes in front of me right on his page check the game notes kid i look down i can barely see my eyes are welded shut here he has like he has like 150 200 pims it's like just after christmas i'm like whoops a daisy wrong door you could tell me that story every day until i die and all that's such a good story though it's so amazing oh man that guy's too much thanks to ami and hopefully we don't see him in the mindsies once again absolute character in the uh the lore of spit and chicklets no doubt and another funny guest made his return as well this season,

John Michael Lyles, back when we were in Denver. And he had one of the funniest stories, perhaps, of the last season. So we're going to send it over to John Michael Lyles right now. Enjoy. When you played Toronto 2 coach, you kind of got double whammy there. You had Wilson and Kyle Lyle back to back. Oh, my God. So, Wills loved me. This is therapy session.

Wills loved me. So I got along with Wills. Like, I got traded there in the summer, came in. I mean, we came out of the gates like hot. And Wills was awesome. I got a concussion like right before Christmas and didn't play for like two months. And I think Wills got fired like shortly after I came back. And yeah, it was, I forget what it was.

It was like the night before Wills got fired we had like a little team meeting and the rumor was Randy was going to get hired and Loops had him in Anaheim and Loops is like boys we're done he's like we can't we can't do this we can't we just can't like we can't have this guy I'm telling you it'll be the most miserable experience of your life

and for me it was it was tough with Randy American Defense he just he's under six foot one under six foot one like and he did he had like phil was like ready to quit playing hockey when he found out randy was getting hired because phil only drinks coke he doesn't drink water and he heard randy doesn't let coke in the locker room and he's like i'll fucking quit i swear to god i'm like dude you just signed a 56 million dollar deal or whatever and he's just like don't care i'll fucking quit i don't need this shit yeah my buddy conley was on those teams too he's old school and it was not a good fit with

him no it wasn't what were some of the the dumber or sillier things or antics that he would pull off where you're like this is such a bizarre coaching tactic oh Oh, man. He – I don't even know about coaching tactics. It was just like everything was – you know, like he just – it was in control of everything. We had the team weigh-ins like every three days or whatever. He did control everything. Trainers, everything. Food, beer. Yep.

Beer on the plane. Like he limited it to 36 beers on the plane. His rationale was some guys will have two, some guys will have some guys will have zero i'm like yeah like i started bringing my own bottle of wine on the plane just because it was like the beers are all gone in the first hour okay so that's something that's kind of uh i want to say left the game but you see certain teams not allowing booze on flights now yeah and i was talking to rick talking about it and i think that in phoenix they might have asked him like you know what are you what are your thoughts on he goes if you think i'm gonna tell a fucking 30 year old that he can't have a pop after he just went and competed for

60 minutes for me you're out of your goddamn mind and i agree now on the flip side of it booze does kill you yeah if you're fucking crushing a lot in the air too it's like in the air yeah exactly but you're on like a five- hour flight like we had i mean you're stuffing your your bag with beers from the bus because we didn't have enough beers on the flight and it was like the other thing was like we took all the snacks off the plane so it was like beef jerky and like fruit and then but he did but he'd have his own snack it was a freaking chip massacre at the front and the coaching staff like you'd walk up there there'd be like eight empty bags there was a bodega they took out seats to the front in the coaching staff. You'd walk up there. There'd be eight empty bags. There was a bodega.

They took out seats in the front. I'm like, I've got teriyaki beef jerky stuck in my teeth. Abba Zabba? You're my only friend. God. Yeah, just stuff like that. The weigh-ins. Phil refused to weigh in one time.

And Bell's like, Phil, you've got to weigh in. And Phil's like, fuck that. I'm not fucking weighing in. And Bell's strength coach told Randy, and he's like, you tell him, you got to weigh in. And Phil's like, fuck that. I'm not fucking weighing in. And Bells, our strength coach, went and told Randy. And he's like, you tell him he's got to weigh in. Bells came back. He's like, Randy says you got to weigh in. Stand off.

Phil put his head down the hall. He goes, you tell that fat fuck if he wants me to weigh in, he can come weigh me in himself. Did Carlisle like when he would go at him? Yeah, he liked it he liked it and and him and phil i think they got along as well as could be well they had that behind the scenes of the leading up to the winter classic or whatever it was and it seemed like they had a bit of a a bit of a rapport yeah but you don't know how much of it is uh you know just genuine genuine chirps or

just fake ones loops ended up ripping it up with Randy there, too. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. I mean, listen, it was, like, I'm not saying Randy's a bad coach. It was just Randy wasn't my style, right? Like, you know, he didn't want me jumping into play every other rush. Were you walking on eggshells a bit at the rink most days, too? I mean, yes and no.

It's not like I got sent to the minors for part of it. I was at the Marlies for a little while. I mean, he was fine around the rink. It was just little stuff. And it's just like, I mean, I was 30 at the time, right? Or 31 at the time. And I don't want to just have one beer on the plane if it's a four-hour flight. And so just little disagreements like that more than anything.

But I mean, he won a Stanley Cup. he's he's he's still a decent coach and um you know i'd never rip on him for that like i thought he was i thought he was pretty good coach but you know for me it was tough because i wasn't ever going to fit into that style of play that he wanted he wanted d men that were gonna you know knock you knock you off your feet and and you know there's we had some good ones like d Dion was there. And, you know, it was tougher for me at that time. So getting traded to Carolina was, you know, it was a bit of a blessing.

And, you know, I got traded after warm-ups of the Winter Classic, which is always a good story. It was like I was going out for warm-ups and they were like, hey, we got a trade in place not confirmed yet. And I was like, that's fine i'm like i'm still going out for warm-ups and i was just wheeling around in warm-ups and uh pierre mcguire was it like uh in between the benches for that and he like called me over he's like hey he's like

you had a great career and i was like is it over like what's going on like obviously he got word that i just got pierre mcguire letting you know that your career yeah and i was like what do you mean like is i just i think i'm getting traded like is it over whatever and then i was sitting on the red line and drew miller and uh and kyle quincy are on the wings and they were stretching across from me and uh they're like what's going on i'm like i just got traded they're like what like so then walking off the ice i'm walking off and uh drew miller walks off with me and ryan and i played together and like one of my best buddies and uh he like put his arm around me because you walked down the tunnel together and like there's somebody sent me a picture of that like him with his arm

around me it was cool but yeah like claim to fame got traded after warm-ups of the winter classic thank you john michael for joining us in denver man great to catch up with him again awesome guy okay gang there's no better way to cap this episode than with the stanley Thank you to John Michael for joining us in Denver, man. Great to catch up with him again. Awesome guy. Okay, gang, there's no better way to cap this episode than with the Stanley Cup winner from the Avalanche. And Eric Johnson was very generous with his time right after winning the Stanley Cup. So enjoy Eric Johnson in his entirety once again. Man, we're very thankful this guy was able to make some time for us

on such short notice. Sunday night in Tampa in his 14th NHL season and his 12th in Denver, he became a Stanley Cup champion when the Colorado Avalanche won their first Stanley Cup in 21 years. Thanks so much for joining us on the Spit and Chicklets podcast.

Stanley Cup champion, Eric Johnson. Congratulations, my friend. Oh, it's my pleasure. I appreciate you guys taking the time to have me on. Absolutely. I saw you woke up with a stranger in bed today, a 35-pound silver stranger, namely. Oh, that was a good one to wake up to, that's for sure.

I've had some worse ones, but that was a good one to wake up to. I thought that was posed. I thought you were still up from the night. You're like, all right, I got to pretend like I woke up. I haven't slept a wink. The old slump buster. Man, honestly, I think most of of them to bed around 7 30 and then i like i couldn't get to bed it was just we're on such a high you know from winning the

cup and i think i slept 90 minutes and then i got a knock on my door and landy was butt naked with the cup in the hallway it was a nice nice morning delivery oh. You needed that size to probably cover the wrench he's got. The fucking guy's got everything that man missed. Now he's got the ring and he's got the fat fucking contract. Hey, he's got everything but a skate blade at one point in the biggest part of the game, Biz, but he was crawling off the ice. Oh, man. What a stud he is.

Yeah, it was a nice delivery, that's for sure, this morning. So, did you have any idea you were going to be the first guy to get handed it like that's fucking that's so awesome dude and well deserved thank you yeah i i did biz uh landy you know i think it was i think it was even after the year that we finished last he goes you know when we win this thing i'm i'm giving it to you first and you kind of think in the back of your mind like yeah okay you know, when we win this thing, I'm giving it to you first. And you kind of think in the back of your mind, like, yeah, okay. You know, whatever, like, you know, it's so hard to win. You never really know if it's going to happen, but,

and he kept saying it and kept saying it. And even throughout the course of this season, he was just like, when we win it, I'm giving it to you. And it was just amazing. Just he's such a great guy. He's one of my best friends. He always makes fun of me and said I was the last cut for his wedding for a groomsman. But I'll give you the cup. Yeah, he's one of my great boys.

So it was super special to share the moment with him, definitely. I've known you a long time. And seeing the interview that you gave after, I to emily caplan uh for you know the united states feed it was just i felt so happy for you and and to to hear you talk about almost retiring and what you've been through and the last place finishes try to take me through your mind as like as it all happens i see you with mckinnon are you just are you even thinking yet? Like, I cannot believe this. Or are you just completely in a celebration mode? Like it took you, it took you a while to become so thoughtful.

I thought in those answers. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to give, I want to give an answer that, you know, it just wasn't the cliche hockey answers. I really wanted to make it come from the heart. And I think, you know, you really have to reflect and think to make sure that you do that. And for me, I just, you know you really have to reflect and think to make sure that you do that and uh for

me I just you know it's been such a career of ups and downs and you know some faults of my own some faults of bad luck some faults of just you know the way that your hockey career unfolds but I just uh I really just wanted to reflect on what had happened and kind of take it in. And, you know, you always kind of dream about that interview after you win the cup of how it's going to feel and what you're going to say. And, you know, I think it sounds better in your head and then, you know, you're never really sure how it sounds when it comes out, but I haven't listened to it or watched it yet, but, you know,

I had a lot of texts where, you know, people said that, you know, they were crying and it brought them to tears and just, just moved and you know i didn't try to do that i just was trying to speak from my heart and how it really felt in the moment and uh you know i'm glad to hear that it captured that biz i feel right now like like gretzky wouldn't get traded i told biz i wouldn't do this i'm getting emotional listening to you tell this stuff and that's why the other the other scene that i loved was your parents was that the first time you saw him when they interrupted that interview i i saw them in the stands because i was asked asking brendan mcnicholas our our great uh pr uh person where they were sitting and he pointed me to where they were so

i got to wave to them uh before i lifted the cup so when i lifted the cup i knew where they were so I got to wave to them uh before I lifted the cup so when I lifted the cup I knew where they were I knew my girlfriend was sitting so I knew where they were all at so that was that was super cool and um yeah I mean they've stuck with me all the way and like I mentioned in some of the interviews just that's what it's all about you surround yourself with people that believe in you and if you believe in yourself what else really matters right so it was nice to share that with them talk about sticking with it you guys were dead last in the league five years ago um you end up getting kind of screwed on the on the draft get fourth overall and with that pick you guys get kale mccarr and at this rate this guy looks like the next bobby or what is it like

being on a team with this guy what do you think the ceiling is and and i'll just let you run with that yeah man i mean i you run out of words to describe him just he's not like a real person like nobody that good is like that nice and that humble you know what i mean like he's a robot it's crazy like he you know he's just you'd want your sister to marry this guy 10 times over you know what i mean it's just he's just such a stud and like you know what he does out there you just shake your head sometimes like people shouldn't be able to do that like i watch him do that and i'm like my knee would explode if i tried to do like half the shit he does you know what i mean it's just and it has oh fuck a couple times like it's

uh it's just crazy like he he's such a great guy like he's so humble he you know he's the best defenseman in the world and you know he looks like he'd be like your science tutor buddy it's just like it's like who is this guy? He's just so Harry Potter. He's the man. Like, I just, I'm so proud of him because like nothing gets to his head. And he's, you know, I don't know what his ceiling is. Like, how can you get much better than what he is now?

He's the best, maybe the best player in the world. So it's, it's awesome. Happy for him. EJ, your embrace with Nate Dogg was great. It looked like that Vancouver couple during the riot a few years back. And you can see the raw emotion in your face. How psyched were you for the Nate Dogg having such a huge hand in the clinching game? Yeah, we're 69 out there.

Yeah, we're a missionary out there for sure. No, I mean, I'm so after him because I just know how invested he is. Like, nobody really knows behind the scenes what this guy puts into his craft i mean he's got a full-time body therapist that lives in denver that moves here from calgary he's got a personal chef he's got he's got so much stuff going on that really rubs off on guys and he just drags into the fight you know like he's he'll shoot you that look and you know, it doesn't matter who you are, whether it's me or it's Gabe or it's anyone, you know, he's, he's not fucking around, but he's there to win. He's all business.

And even in practice, I mean, you, you fuck up a rep in practice. I mean, you're getting your, you're getting your head chewed off, you know, and it just brings everybody's level up. And, uh, you know, he, I'm happy for him because, you know, these are special people. Like, Cale's a special guy. Nate's a special guy. Gabe's a special guy.

And you look at these guys and you know they're just a different breed. And you know they deserve to win. And you want to fight that much more for those guys. I texted Cogs this morning because having played with him, I could tell how much everyone loved him just from the experience I had with him. Like once you meet a guy like that, you're like anywhere that guy goes, he's going to be one of everyone's favorite teammates. And I think you handed it to him, correct? Yes.

And then he turned around. It was an unreal picture, an image of like the whole team was just so fired up for him so can you explain to the people listening like uh how meaningful it was to see him win after the long career he's had and he got screwed on that uh iron man streak too so he's been through a lot he did i mean um i think with the best part is watching everybody else with the cup that's by far the best part and um i've known cogs a little bit just training with him in the offseason and uh i mean he what he did for our team in the short amount of time that he was here had a huge impact i mean you know sometimes it takes a

little while to get acclimated to a team but he fit right in and he you know he he actually called called a meeting the night before game six just to get all the guys together and get everyone's thoughts out there and he stood up and spoke and i think there were tears in guy's eyes from what he said and that hearing from a guy like that you know how much it means to him i mean he broke his finger and had surgery and he i think he played a week later I mean just the the grind that he went through to get it done I was proud of him because you know you play with them and um you like I said you want to win for guys like that because you know it's so hard to win and I was telling our young guys are rookies I'm like you you look around and you soak this moment in because you don't know if you're going to be back if you're lucky this happened your this moment in because you don't know if you're going to be back.

If you're lucky this happened your first year, we've been waiting 15 years. So, you know, to win for guys like that means a lot. Eric, there's a video of you going around. You take sort of a final lap on the ice by yourself with your cell phone. What was going through your mind doing that? I needed to just get a moment away. I couldn't see with the fucking champagne in my eyes.

Me and Gabriel out there and I FaceTimed a couple of our close buddies because I had a couple buddies at the game and they couldn't get down to the ice because we didn't have enough family wristbands so I was just telling them meet me at the hotel we're having a party at the hotel so it was kind of just a moment to unwind and reflect and um yeah it looked cool on the video but it was kind of just you know it was like your kid, you know, it was like your kid and, you know, you just finished a game of pond hockey and you're just cruising out there with your buddy.

So it was pretty, pretty sweet. DJ, I don't know if you had a chance to hear the quote from Kadri, uh, Basie, all the doubters who are doubting him in Toronto can kiss his ass. Uh, you mentioned, uh, playing through injury with Cogliano with his broken finger another guy who got to get surgery came back from it has that huge uh overtime goal uh in game four what did Caudry coming over mean to your team what's he like behind the scenes and and it was pretty special to watch yeah it is I mean he's just a gamer I mean I kept going down the line. I'm like, we don't win the cup without this guy.

We don't win the cup without this guy. We don't win the cup without this guy and you get to Nas and you really don't fuck win the cup without this guy. And I mean, he broke his thumb in two places, had surgery and he played in like 18 days. I mean, he should have been out another five weeks. Like what, what these guys were doing to get ready to play. It was just unbelievable. You know, they're, they're in the doc's office before the game getting numbed up. You know, they're getting the shots and, I mean, all legal stuff,

but just, and I mean, Tampa was doing the same thing. They had guys bound for injuries, but Nas, like, he should not have been playing. Like, there's just no way. He should not have been playing. he should not have been playing. Like, there's just no way. He should not have been playing.

And the goal he scored in game six, sorry, game four, he's just a gamer. I mean, he's going to get paid this summer, and he deserves it. He's just, I mean, what a stud. He's just got that swagger about him. You know what I mean? He's just kind of, he oozes that confidence and rubs off on guys i look at uh like jack johnson too because i remember uh i was seeing or hanging out with david quinn at bu who you i think was coaching the national program when you guys were there and jack jack's a year older than you and i heard about him first and i asked him about him he's

like yeah he's incredible you got to see this other kid, another Johnson, a year younger than him. So come full circle. You two are battling it out together and get your first Stanley Cup. And, you know, he's been through a lot. Everyone knows his story, and it's been unfortunate. So to see him win and having known him for as long as you have, like explain that relationship a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I've known Jack since we were 15. He's a year older than me.

I looked up to him. Obviously obviously his story is well documented and uh you know not not any fault of his own for sure I mean just a shitty story and uh you know he kind of ups and downs too um and you land on your feet I mean he came in on a PTO this year and I mean, he was playing top four minutes for us at one point. I mean, he really was a key piece to what we were doing. And when we won, when we won and then, you know, everyone has the cup and everyone's taking pictures. He found me across the ice and he goes, I want you to come take a picture with me with the cup. This,

I really want to, I really want to take a picture with you. Like this means a lot to me. Like, you know, so brought a tear to my almost just because you know i knew it meant a lot to him that we did it together so you know special moments are better when you share it with special people and that's kind of what we what we did and what we all you know had had the opportunity to accomplish together who was drunkest last night? Frank, France, who is by far.

Oh yeah. And I'm telling you like Landy's having this, this speech in the locker room. Like I'm so proud of you guys. We did it. And then France, who's a left field. We're going to win it again next year too.

Dude, let the captain have his moment. You know what I mean? It's just like, Oh, it was oh it was so funny but another guy you know you go down the list fuck you don't win the cup without him i mean playoff for us ej i know you mentioned uh you almost retired last summer just how close were you to retire now what was the draw that made you come back for the for the next year yeah man i mean i was uh i was sick and tired of getting hurt like sick of it i couldn't buy i couldn't catch a fucking break you know i go for routine block shot break my leg fall on the boards break my kneecap take a bad fall concussion i mean i know other guys everyone goes through

their injuries but it was like fucking two years boom boom boom eight weeks 12 weeks couldn't play in the playoffs that was my best season couldn't play in the playoffs so then the concussion I felt like shit all year and uh I turned the corner in July I was like I'm only playing in Colorado I'm only playing here I don't want to play anywhere else and you know there was kind of a question mark whether that was going to happen you know there it's tough like I could see Joe's situation like how can you rely on this guy he's had a ton of injuries like you know he really only plays 60 games a year with all his injuries so I got his perspective he called me and in July and he's like EJ you know what if you're healthy we need you and that kind of gave me the fucking spark and kick in my ass

where you know I was getting ready to play but I was starting to feel better, and then I really turned a corner. And I owe a lot to Joe. He really stuck with me. And five years ago, we were last. I went to him. I said, I want to be a part of this solution. Please, please, please, let's get this done together. And he said, I can't make any promises, which wasn't the greatest thing to hear. But it's all fun now, right?

I mean, it's just an amazing feeling. I could die happy. Hey, even when the expansion draft was up, did you volunteer yourself to be unprotected so they could even keep some of their young pieces intact? Yeah, I mean, Joe came to me and he's like, would you wave? And I said, well, see, that would be crazy to take me, right? Like I did that all year.

I had injury troubles. I was, you know, I come from my own skin. You know, I'm an honest critic of myself. I know what I am, who I am. And, you know, I just said, sure, you know what, if it's going to help the team out, I'll do it. I didn't think Seattle would take me. Thankfully, they didn't.

Thankfully, I came back and played. Even my dad asked me last summer, he's like, are you really going to go back and play again? I was like, you know what? I'm feeling that pull. Like, something's pulling me back. You know, like, you get that fucking pull that, you know, that something's eating at you.

Like, you got to do this. Unfinished business. You'd never forgive yourself. Oh, exactly. I mean, man, thank God it all worked out. You know, you just start the line and you get lucky. And how much does Bednar play in a factor of how much guys also love showing up to the rink?

Because you talk about a player's coach, you see his post-game press conferences and how calm, cool, and collective he is all the time. I don't know if he's ever snapped in the locker room. Seems like he hasn't, but he just seems like the best guy ever yeah he is I mean uh he's got that blend right he's got the balance of players coach and you know if you're not playing well he'll give you a kick in the ass and um you know I went up to him last night I'm like so you've won three titles now right the? The coast, the AHL and NHL. And he just, he didn't say anything. He just went, I'm like five titles.

And he's like five titles. I'm like, okay, congrats, man. That's awesome. Couldn't take the compliment of the coast, the A and the NHL. He's like, no, I got five. I'm like, all right. Yeah. He's got uh dad of the year from his kids and the year from his wife yeah so i was laughing i'm like all right he's got five titles but honestly i read that he's the first coach in history to win all three so he's a winner right i mean you know that just doesn't happen by mistake you got to really be dedicated at your craft and know what you're doing and push all the right buttons at the right time.

And he has. I got one more for EJ. I know the Blank 182 song has been all the rage, all the small things, but I couldn't help but notice when you were raising the cup in the room, a little Dancing in the Moonlight, an old school song. Where did that come from? So I started listening to that. My buddy got married last summer, and that was his first dance song.

I was his wife, and I was like, this song is fucking awesome. Like, we've got to implement this into our locker room somehow. So it wasn't lively enough to be our wind song. So we had heat waves, which is so cool. Late nights in the middle of June, I'm always thinking about you, whatever the line is, about the cup, right? And so then I was playing Dance in the the moonlight right after that all year long and i just think it's such a cool old school song and um i was jamming to that and it was kind of my

anthem for the summer last year and i'm gonna play the bunch this summer too nice love to see it so i know uh i know you gotta run um you i think your uncle he said on tv or something but just give us quickly before you take off what what does the next 48 hours look like? Do you guys know what's up for tonight? Besides getting crushed, I'm talking about where. Yeah. Honestly, so we were setting up for our party tonight, and we're calling around all these bars, me and Gabe and his wife.

And they're like, we can't go anywhere because they're all sold out of alcohol. So Denver drank this fucking town dry last night. There was like one place we could go to in all of downtown that could fit, you know, 200 people. So this town's out of fucking booze, which is fucking awesome, right? So, yeah, so we're excited. It's going to – I think we're going to maybe head out for a boys trip to Vegas, maybe in a couple of days. And we're just going to soak it up.

You're probably getting that call right now, buddy. Well-deserved. Congratulations. You guys deserve it. And maybe we'll have to pop over to Vegas to fucking enjoy the festivities. Please do. You guys are welcome.

I really appreciate you guys having me on. Good catching up with you. Hopefully we run into each other. A pleasure, pal. Go to hell, buddy. Congratulations. Have a great one. Bye.

All right, everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in with this best of. So much good stuff from the last year. Hopefully you're either listening for the second or third time, or maybe if you missed it somehow, you're tuning in for the first time. But enjoy it as well. And don't forget that our Chicklets Cup videos will be dropping this week. Some epic stuff coming.

It's going to be hilarious once it's all put together. It's like a little mini movie. You're going to enjoy the hell out of it. And we also have a back to school sale coming as well. Keep your eyes open for that. But guys, gals, we love you. Thanks for everything. And we'll see you soon.