Spittin Chiclets - Spittin' Chiclets Episode 469: Featuring Derek Stepan and Trung Phan

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

On Episode 469 of Spittin’ Chiclets, the guys are joined by Derek Stepan & Trung Phan. Derek joined (01:07:52) to talk quickly about his time with the Rangers and his future plans on wanting to become a GM in the National Hockey League. But before Derek joins, the boys talk about the Ottawa Headline Hogs and the Troubles in Toronto. Trung Phan joined (02:24:54) to talk crypto, the Sam Bankman-Fried trial, movies, and much more! But first, the guys talk about the hockey in California and the bad start out in Edmonton. Hey RA, what’s that stat for the Sharks again?You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Hello everybody and welcome to episode 468 of Spittin' Chicklets Presented by Pink Whitney from our friends at New Amsterdam Vodka Here in the Barstool Sports Podcast family What is up everyone? November is already here We have a few surprise teams, a front office shakeup and a bunch more to get to But first, we say hello to the fellas Producer Mikey Grinnelli.

What's shaking? You got a little something up your sleeve right here? Chicklets U. What's this all about? Chicklets University is coming to the Spittin' Chicklets YouTube channel November 15th. It's a video series. We've been filming it for a few months now. I'm very excited about it.

As you guys know, I've been kind of the college hockey guy on this show for a while now. But we're going around to a bunch of different arenas all across America. We're checking out their facilities, the good, the bad, the ugly. We're very excited. And we're starting off with the 2021 National Champions in Greg Carvell and the University of Massachusetts next Wednesday. So we're very excited for that. Taylor McCarr gave us a tour of the facilities.

Incredible, incredible facilities. I did say in the video, the nicest facilities in North America. I feel like North Dakota fans are going to be coming at me for that one. They do have the Ralph, but very excited for this series to kick off. Hopefully we can get Witt and BU involved.

Absolutely. Great job, G. Out of both. A couple clicks for G, boys. A couple clicks for G here. Great job, G. You, you, you, you. Very excited.

I'm very excited. Now, just to clarify, you said on the for G here. Great job, G. You, you, you, you. Very excited. I'm very excited. Now, just to clarify, you said on the Spittin' Chicklets YouTube channel. Now, how many followers does that channel have exactly? 300, 3,000, baby. We have, wait a minute. I feel like 3,000 in a week is actually probably the biggest week we've ever had.

Jeez, I mean, I wonder why we gained that many fucking followers in a week's time. What do you think it could be? I don't know, but maybe we lost 3,000 downloads after them listening to you say it over and over in the car. So who knows if it was even a win, Biz. Okay, yeah, it all evens out in the wash now, doesn't it? Could be the return of game notes, too.

Biz has a little internet issue, so he actually can't see us right now, which actually I love because me, R.A., and Grinnelli could maybe just give him the finger when we want to.

Kind of like my career wit, I don't have any vision, right? Hey, I don't know. I would say vision was something you were lacking. Narrow it right in. Put the blinders on, folks.

You had vision for the after hours parties and that's what's most important sometimes. We need some teams to maybe have a couple of those right now. But one thing I am good at is feeling out the rhythm of conversation here

on the podcast, so I'm going to jump in when I feel it's right. And so far, not too bad with not being able to see you guys. We'll make it work, buddy. Yeah, I saw at Chicklets University, I was hoping to get another seven years of college tucked in, but probably not going to happen with this fight. Van Wilder. Next up, the wit dog, Ryan Whitney. What's what shake am i man not much uh not much at all

hell of hell of a week boys i mean we had the sandbagger drop which was great we'll get into that in a little bit a lot of great feedback that was a lot of fun thanks to noah hannifin jack eichel myself this weekend uh a monster college hockey series at aganis Arena on Com Ave in Boston. North Dakota came to town to take on the Terriers. And BU won the first game. Unbelievable game on Friday night. And then tied the second game. They technically lost in a shootout.

But for pair-wise rankings in the NCAA tournament later in the year, it counts as a tie. Unreal hockey. I'll say this right now. And Canadian people, you may not want to hear it, but it used to be the old OHL, WHL best teams playing the best college hockey teams. College hockey teams would slaughter junior hockey teams now. And it is more a case of OHL teams and WHL teams are probably competing more with USHL teams because you see the talent. Macklin Celebrini, who will be the first overall pick this year,

Monster Weekend took an enormous headshot, actually, from a guy Schmaltz on North Dakota on Saturday night. And he was right back out there, which was awesome. Yeah, right back out there for the five-minute power play. Interestingly enough, the guy got a five-minute major, but he didn't get kicked out of the game. I thought it was, I guess the ref can choose if you get tossed and the five-minute major.

What's up, buddy? And he wasn't, sorry, I'm saying hi to my son. Hey, I'm working. Get out of here. Get out of here. So what was I saying? So Celebrini was a monster, and actually two players on North Dakota

really stood out. One is this kid, Jackson Blake, whose father was Jason Blake, played in the NHL a long time. Carolina got this kid in 2021 in the fourth round, game breaker. He scored the OT winner. I said shootout.

He was overtime. He scored a beautiful OT winner. And then he fucking went on his knees and skated right in front of the BU bench. So the boys will have to remember that if they meet in the national what do you mean what do you mean he like did the yakupov slide he fucking skated into the corner it was a beautiful goal and he skated into the corner slid on his knees at the blue line and then slid in front of the bu bench looking at them the entire time and i immediately said we'll remember that one come tourney time in

march or april oh yeah what the fuck are you going to do? There's no fighting there. You're going to fucking punch him with your glove on. It could maybe make you a little extra motivated in terms of, I'm not going to lose to North Dakota and watch this kid slide in front of our bench. 25 years old playing university hockey and can't fight. No, this kid's not 25, so a hell of a player. And then they got this Jaden Perron kid who Carolina got last summer in the third round. So two super skilled, a little smaller, but not tiny by any means, right shot forwards, game breakers.

And this Perron kid, his shot was a joke. He scored a beauty Saturday night. Actually, Celebrini and Perron played together last year on the Chicago Steel in the USHL. Lit that league up. So it was an awesome weekend for BU to get a win and technically a tie. And great games. I brought Ryder in Saturday night. He had a blast.

Friday night, I sat with Chris Bork, who also helps out with BU hockey, and Reed Mitchell. This guy, what a legend. Apparently, he's worked for the Toronto Maple Leafs for 24 years. And I don't know his exact title, but a great storyteller, an awesome dude. So I got to spend some time with him asking him, you know, different thoughts about the league and the Leafs, which, you know, that's a private conversation. But the guy was awesome. A true kind of lifer in the game of hockey. And to be with the Leafs that long with all the changeover just shows how valuable he is to that organization. So overall, an awesome weekend. And we had a fun Halloween. So was that? No, that was two weeks ago.

Jesus Christ. But I got nothing else, guys. I got nothing else. I mean, I'm getting ready for our trip. I just want to defend the CHL, the Canadian Hockey League. Now, it is a lot younger than university hockey. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, 100%.

So, obviously, the players, like if you put a university team against an OHL team or Western Hockey League team, obviously, the university is going to win. But to be fair, I feel like over the course of the last five to ten years, university hockey has gotten far better. And maybe that is because those are the years it's become older biz what do you mean it's it's more recent that a lot of teams are making kids go to play junior two years sometimes one oftentimes two years before they come in as a freshman that is within the last five to 10 years. So I think the argument beforehand had a little bit more weight because like the ages were somewhat similar. Now there are a lot of 23, 24 and sometimes 25 year old guys. So it does make sense. So you have to be a special player to be playing college hockey at the earliest would be what, 18 years old so celebrini which is like celebrini turned 17 in june so if you look at what he's doing he has 14 points in eight games the fact he's even playing college hockey is out of control and then he'll be drafted after his freshman year so similar to uh jack eichel and charlie

mcavoy also be you guys they but they the sept September 15th is the cutoff for the draft, right? So last year, it was, I believe, 06s who got drafted. If you're born in 06 after September 15th, you will be the next draft, okay? Well, Eichel and McAvoy, they were like October or November. Celebrini is June into the next year. So he's going to get drafted after just turning 18. So to see him even playing college hockey and dominating, it is pretty incredible. And in a similar fashion, this stud, Pavel Mintyakov in Anaheim that we'll talk about, I hope I said his last name right. He actually was drafted a year later than most kids his birth year because he's a November birth date.

So it does kind of put into context what Celebrini's doing. Turning 17 in June and playing college hockey in itself is a big deal. To dominate is out of control. Do you think that makes him more inclined to come back next season, especially because his buddy Cole Iserman is coming? I hope so, and if the Sharks win the lottery, fuck yeah, he'll be staying. Would you want to go to that right now? No.

I was going to ask, so the guy who's been with the Leafs for 24 years, what's the name again? Reed Mitchell. How many crazy stories did he have from behind the scenes of stuff that almost went down or didn't go down in Leafs' world? We didn't really maybe talk about Leafs' world in terms of what went down and what didn't go down in Leafs' world? We didn't really maybe talk about Leafs' world in terms of what went down and what didn't go down. He told me a couple things that I can't repeat

that were pretty interesting, I'll say that, in terms of just like over the years, all the different stories, but nothing like that I was like totally blown away at. More just the guy's an unreal storyteller, good guy, and you could see why he stayed around that organization for that long. That's awesome. Last but not least, even though he's already talked quite a bit,

Paul, biz nasty, biz sent. Looks like you're back down in Atlanta, but you had a very exciting weekend. You must have been fired up. You were on Hockey Night in Canada for the first time. How excited were you? Were you more nervous? What? Let's hear it.

Oh, I was nervous. It was a blast, and it was an honor, guys. I've been fortunate enough to be on Hometown Hockey. I did the trade deadline at Sportsnet, but never had I done a Hockey Night in Canada broadcast and got the opportunity to do it because Biexa was away. I think he was in Detroit. His kid had a hockey tournament,

so I was fortunate enough to fill the seat. And just what a blast seeing these total pros go at it. And, you know, obviously I've been fortunate enough to work at TNT with a bunch of other unbelievable pros as well. I think that, you know, over the course of probably the season, you're averaging about, you know, six, six hundred thousand to a million viewers. Maybe on some, if you get like original six matchup on tnt but i think in canada they're averaging about three million viewers over the course of the night with the east coast games and the west coast games so just to get to to work with ron mclean who's a canadian icon canadian legend and and a total pro like i don't understand how he has the motor he has at how long he's been doing it in his

age like i guess no offense to like calling out his age but like he is just like the minute the lights go on he's just like and he and his memory guys the stories and the names and the names and like i can't even get the players names of current nhlers right this guy is just humming them off doesn't skip a beat um I actually got to go eat the night before because we were staying at the hotel with Kelly Rudy a guy who's been doing hockey night in Canada for 25 years I'd never hung out with him before what a fucking beauty he is and a total pro as well and then Elliot Friedman who was not only doing the the TV but just manning the phone the entire night getting all these

stories from behind the scenes i don't know how this guy does it talk about ron's motor this guy's motor is an overdrive non-stop sports net please get him a vacation i uh i just had some he better be making a million bucks he bet because that guy is a machine. I think we talk about it later in the episode, the trunk fan, he Elliot Freeman might be AI. He might not be a actual human being. So there's, that's still a,

the book is still out on that. But as far as snap around the thank yous, I want to thank Ed Hall, Brian Spear, Rob Corte, obviously Ron McLean, Rudy Friedman, Jen Botterill was there as well,

who I get to work out at work out with tnt and then i had bx juice down uh for giving up his seat for the night and as i said a true honor it was fun snapping around with all the canadian teams and i got a lot of positive feedback so just extremely grateful and it uh it was on my bucket list and grateful that i was able to accomplish that so you dummy juice juice on the golf course, then you steal a seat. Just an interesting little rivalry we have there, Brew and Biz. But I'm curious, because it's like Hockey Night in Canada, and even as an American, I remember when I moved to Ann Arbor

for the national program, you would get CBC, like Michigan would, I guess, and watching it, it just meant a little bit more. So for you, maybe the nerves a little bit more than a TNT broadcast just because you grew up watching it? Yeah, and it's your first time in that environment doing that as well, right, where there's a different cadence to the broadcast where-

And you can't talk about some things you say on some issues. Somebody say cadence? They're talking about Wayne doing shrooms. Might fly on Turner, but I don't know if Rogers or whatever. Yeah, it's definitely a little bit more buttoned up. And the biggest component to it, too, is you've got to make sure you're snapping it around evenly to each Canadian team, or then you're going to have those fans coming at you online, which, Hey, they're just passionate about hockey and they want to hear their teams being talked about. So on a broadcast in which, um, we had three Canadian teams going at it in that early

game, uh, our game was, was Buffalo Toronto. So that was great to talk about the Leafs. Um, they had, uh, St. Louis and Montreal were going at it. Uh. We got to talk about the Slavkoski situation, which that was national news in Canada about how they're managing him, his ice time, whether he should be sent down or not. And then the other one was Ottawa. The Ottawa and Tampa Bay game, which ended up having tons of drama after it, and we'll get to that shortly. And then the late game, it was great because we got the zone in on one,

was Vancouver and Dallas, and that was for second place in the West, and it was awesome to get to watch that full game and comment on it and see how buttoned up that overall five-on-five team defense is for the Vancouver Canucks. This team is fucking nasty. They're not going anywhere, Biz. They're not going anywhere. The way that

their stars are playing and their goaltenders are and all their role guys they are completely bought in uh but it was like i said to go back to the broadcast it was you know it was a little bit nerve-wracking because you had to also bring that knowledge and uh and make sure you knew what the fuck you were talking about because those canadian fans if you don't will let you know online if you fuck up especially if you call the the captain of the toronto maple leafs jonathan taveras which uh john is not short for jonathan there is no i i mean i thought every john was a jonathan so same here same here like i'd never even heard of that i remember finding out that people named jack are named john and i was like what but i guess some

people aren't who knows but my buddy jack really all of a sudden one time i found out his name was john i was like wait what really there's some there's some surprised i didn't oh yeah i didn't know that all right um yeah biz you did a great job i got to check you out because i was at the bu game but then i watched uh i watched van and dallas and was watching i wanted to see you on there it was it was a lot of fun seeing you crush it just in another outlet. And I appreciate that, Whit, and the boys for even bringing it up and allowing me to talk about this. The coolest part about it was when we wrapped up the show,

we went out to a pub and I got to sit down with Ron McClain, Kelly Rudy, and Elliott Friedman and just have a little campfire story time. And just to hang out with those guys, legends of the game, it was a night I will never forget. Did you tell them that you recorded the whole conversation yet? I have not. No. Okay. So they'll be in for that. That's going to get us a couple million downloads. There was a lot of times. We might have 500K subscribers.

There was definitely a few times where they say, hey, this is off the record, by the way. So they reminded me. And I even got to keep this amazing souvenir that Ron McClain gifted me. And I will not be putting this on eBay or selling it out of the trunk of my car. So this one's mine, folks. Before we go any further, I got to talk to you guys about Pink Whitney. Is it making the rounds? I met a couple of former BU students that said, excuse me, are you Ryan Whitney?

I said, yes. They said, Pink Whitney's our drink. We get absolutely in one on this drink. We have a bunch of people over. We all take some shots. And next thing you know, the party's ripping. And that's pretty funny because you have a chance to enter maybe the biggest party or friend that you know somebody that's just the life of the party that brings the noise that brings the thunder and they can win a

trip to new york city the pink whitney new york city trip the ultimate life of the party nominee any one of your friends can be nominated and you can hook up them and three of their buddies, which hopefully is you if you're the one nominating them, to come to New York City and check out the Barstool headquarters. Meet some content people, see where all the magic happens, and get involved with

Pink Whitney in New York City. Also, there'll be 10 secondary prize winners that will receive Pink Whitney party packs with everything you and your crew need to take your shot and throw the ultimate house party. It's easy to enter. Just go to PinkWhitney.com to enter all of your info, nominate your life of the party friend, and you got to describe how they always make the party next level. So don't just say, oh, they're funny. They tell good stories. They're loud at parties. Maybe give some examples of things they've done in the past that have made numerous people laugh while they're partying and drinking their Pink Whitney.

So head on over to your local bar and order some Pink Whitney's first. And second is go to PinkWhitney.com and nominate your buddy for the Pink Whitney New York City trip of a lifetime. And then last thing I did forget to mention. I'm a dummy, but before we get into the rest of the show and starting with the Ottawa Senators and what's going on in Canada's capitals, I went on my good buddy Kirk Minahan's show. I go on that, I'd say, three to four times a year.

And I mentioned on there that my wife is expecting. So there'll be a third Whitney crew joining the family early May. Let's go. I actually said it on Chicklets, I don't know, two months ago. Oh, yeah, the wife nixed that. I went downstairs. I said, hey, I just told everyone you're pregnant.

She looked at me and said, are you fucking stupid? You got me pregnant last night. What are you doing? So I had to text Grinnelli to have it taken out. But crazy. I'm so excited. Being a dad is the best thing in the world.

I don't know how the handicap will be in five years, but in terms of excitement and appreciate my wife, I mean, dude, all three of her pregnancies, the first three months, she's been sick as a dog. So I think once women go through being pregnant and dealing with the morning sickness and the nausea and then actually giving birth, they finally understand what it's like for a man to have a common cold.

So we appreciate them. I think that May will be a crazy time in my life with the playoffs and the birth of our third. We don't find out the sex of the kid beforehand, so it'll be that crazy excitement surprise that we had with Ryder and Wyatt. Well, you did a hospital birth you did a home birth you think you would do a ceremony ceremonial face off and playoff birth maybe i could guarantee the oilers in the playoffs i i'd have i'd have her just pushing out with the red line at the rogers hey i'll talk to the tnt broadcast you shaved my

head now you get to do the the the arena birth, I'm down with anything. I'm down. I'm down. All I want is a healthy baby. Boy or girl, I don't care. Just a healthy baby, God willing. They're going to put a piece of the umbilical cord in each of the Oilers guys' rings to commemorate them. Biz loves

birth-related things. He wants to eat placenta. Talking about the umbilical cord. You got a little fetish there, he's a sick man. I don't know. I go off the rails a little bit. I had to hold it all in for Hockey Night in Canada, so I feel like I got to let it all out now. But I know

I already said it, but to Sportsnet and everybody at Hockey Night in Canada, even the people behind the scenes, a moment I will never forget, so thank you guys so much. A quick little tidbit on Notepower Business. If a name is J-O-H-N, it's usually just John. It's usually J-O-N that gets shortened from Jonathan.

You know what I mean? Okay. Just a little heads up for you. I'm going to stick with Kath and Jonathan. I don't know about you guys. It's my team. I can say whatever the fuck I want. You just mentioned a golf game.

You guys, another victory in the sandbag. Hopefully, everyone out there watched it, but it was already on the internet. Guys, how many is that in a row? Is it? Ten. Double digits. That's double digits.

Our next opponents, if we win this one, I think we may never lose again, and that is because we are playing two legends of the game, Jeremy Roenick and Timo Solani, next week in California. Roenick's a complete stick. Solani's good at everything in life, so I know he's solid.

I think he might play a lot of tennis. I don't know how much golf he plays. I'm sure he gets his rounds in. But we're pretty much, we're facing maybe our toughest opponents we have in quite a while. And we do have a tough time with retired guys opposed to these current young bucks that we can get in their head.

Well, that's because that's all they do. Yeah, that's very true. So 10 in a row, thanks to Eichel and Hannafin. I mean, we dummied them. They didn't have their A game, either one of them. Maybe Eichel should have got a few more shots. We dropped Biz's shots. People are still complaining.

And for the first time in a was a long time biz was horrible oh you want me to keep talking sorry no that no that's a result of not being able to that's a result of me not being able to see you guys uh are we not going to mention the other match we have lined up because we have a a five day california trip in which we're going to do interviews. We do have a Pink Whitney event, a bottle signing, and an appearance. I think G is going to hit you with the addresses and the times in which you guys in California in the Anaheim area can come check us out.

And then we have a second sandbagger lined up against Kevin Connolly and Sean Avery. So we are going in prepared for full mental warfare. Yeah, that is going to be... Talk about off the rails. Oh, I don't know what to... And Avery's like a fucking black belt now in jujitsu. So God knows, I'm not saying shit to him,

but you can wrestle him like you wrestle Bugsy. I will be hiring security for that one. I'm going to bring a lawyer to hit him with an NDA beforehand. I am bringing out all the stops with Sean Avery. That guy is a sociopath. Is that the correct term for him? I heard Conley asking on their show about, are you ready for this?

And he's like, yeah, my game's unreal. And then he's like, do you have clubs? And he's like, I have top of the line clubs. So he's already playing mental warfare with his partner. So God knows what he'll be trying to pull off with us. I asked him his handicap. I asked him, he called me the other night during the sandbagger.

And I, he asked, I asked him his handicap. Wouldn't tell me. He said, we'll discuss on site. Okay. He's like,

okay, well, well that, that will be crazy. But in my mind, like I can't even think about them yet and it's back to back days right

this is Monday Tuesday of next week and we got to record the pod right after the T. Mussolini Roenick one so I can't even think about Conley

and Avery until that match happens and then boom that night my brain will turn over to Warfare Zone so I think that the trip's going to

be a success hopefully and the sandbaggers should be electric but we got to try to continue this hopefully, and the sandbaggers should be electric, but we got to try to continue this winning streak. And thanks to Eichel, and thanks to Hanover for taking our beating. And the last thing here, if you don't know where to catch the sandbagger, it's on our Spit and Chicklets YouTube channel,

which has 303,000 followers, G, and now you can let them know exactly where those events are in Anaheim so our fans can come out and see us. Yeah. So on Sunday, November 12th, we'll be from 1230 to 2 PM. We'll be at G and D liquors at three 38 North use,

use a lid drive in Fullerton, California. And then that same day, Sunday, November 12th from 3 PM to four 30 PM. We'll be at Danny K billiards and sports bar in orange, uh, California. to 4.30 p.m. We'll be at Danny K. Billiards and Sports Bar in Orange, California. So very excited for that. It just says Orange, California.

Interesting. Okay. I didn't know they had a place called Orange. Biz, when you're going back to Arizona. All right. I honestly don't know. It feels like never. I've just been traveling like a madman.

But why do you ask about me going back to Arizona? Well, if you were going to bump into Logan Cooley, he owes me a shout-out. He didn't give me a shout-out for the one-hug. Well, technically, he doesn't. Technically, he does not, all right, because he had to score the next game. Okay, all right.

And he scored the game after that. And what's crazy is that night, it looked like he got one as it was crossing the goal line, but he just missed it on his stick. And I watched that game so attentively because I was like, oh my God, I need this Warthog shoutout. And then sure enough, he gets another one or he gets his first in the next game. So he didn't owe you the shoutout by the letter of the law.

But I still was hoping for one, but I don't really blame him. He was probably actually forgetting at that point because he was so excited, but what a player he is. And the Yotes, they're playing some good hockey. Yeah, they are. They play their bags off for tourney. And, R.A., if you wouldn't have watched that game, if you would have seen the score at 8-1, you would have assumed that he had one,

but he ended up getting it the next game in Anaheim, and it was a beauty. That move he pulled off was just, whew, the hands, the mitts on the kid. And I would say that that's what made the Slavkoski stuff national news is because Montreal went into Arizona shortly thereafter, and then everybody's comparing the shiny new toy that the Arizona Coyotes have to that same draft where they ended up passing on Shane Wright, taking Slavkoski, and then Logan Cooley ends up dropping a three. So I would say to summarize this, this Calder race is a sick joke. There are so many good young players in the league right now that have came in and dominated so far this year.

I know it's been a lot of bedard talk, but you talk about Cooley. so far this year. I know it's been a lot of Bedard talk, but you talk about Cooley, you talk about this kid in Anaheim who the defenseman is, who I can't even say his fucking last name, who's just buzzing up and down the ice, and the list goes on and on and on.

Mityukov. Mityukov is his name. Mityukov. We can talk about that later, but in 15 years, dude, Leo Carlson, I really, really wouldn't be surprised if he is as dominant as Bedard.

I think that sounds crazy right now. I think Bedard is a generational talent. I think this kid is Matt Sundin, and watching him out there, it's incredible. His size, his speed, the fact he's still growing. What a player. Anaheim, dude. We'll get into them when we go into the California.

Yeah, we'll get into all that shit later. We've got to get into the headline hogs. Game notes did return last week with Merle Zanami. If you didn't catch it, it's on our YouTube as well. They'll be every Thursday, 11 a.m. Check them out. Merle's the degenerate, along with Ami. Good stuff.

But, all right, Biz, you already mentioned Ottawa a couple times, so we might as well jump into them right now. Of course, last week, Shane Pinto got suspended for half the season. Then last Wednesday, the league ruled the Senators will have to forfeit a future first-round pick sometime in the next three years

because they did not originally supply Evgeny Dadunov's no-trade list to Vegas. And then Vegas later tried to trade him to Anaheim, and they couldn't because the trade list issue came up. Later that day, the Michael Anlau fired Pierre Dorian see you later I think people have been waiting that for a while and Biz I know we were talking the other day about trade calls and kind of all the stuff that goes on and apparently the league office doesn't know about who's on what trade list or no trade list it's a lot going on there Biz didn't you get a little

laugh okay for us yeah yeah so first of, me being the illiterate asshole, when I saw the original tweet, I thought they had to give up three first rounders. I nearly shit a brick. But they get to pick which first rounder in 2024, 2025, and 2026 in which they want to give up when they get the list of the draft order starting in 2024, correct? Yes.

It has to be within 24 hours after the lottery is decided. Okay. So I will say I agree with the owner, Ann Lauer, by the fact that they didn't really disclose this and made it seem like it wasn't a big issue before he bought the team. So I wrote, this is insane. Well, one, because I thought it was three first overall picks. I thought they would have been a little bit more lenient especially the fact that he bought the team and had nothing to do with it but then i ended up getting a text and to basically because

of my tweet saying this and i'm going to read it off i'm not going to give out my source i didn't realize how these calls went down right so this is a great breakdown as to why the the penalty is as severe as it is some people listening right now are being like no they deserve to get penalized like that other who are Ottawa fans think they should have been lenient well maybe you change your mind after I read this out so this is from an unnamed source so the trade call is sacrosanct never even knew that was a word it is the judge and jury for all details surrounding a trade trade calls became necessary years ago as disputes would arise so what is said on the

trade call involves both teams as well as nhl central registry you know how trade lists work if you don't submit then on time you will not have any protection for that year. You'd be amazed how often this happens. Ask Patrick Berglund. On the trade call, NHL Central Registry asked Dorian, does the player have a no trade list? To which Dorian replied, no, he did not submit one. So that is gospel. The NHL proceeded based on this.

And then the Vegas golden nice proceeded on that. That's why originally, if you can remember the NHL approved the trade because they were operating off the same information that they were, that Vegas was. Then the agent came forward with proof. He had submitted that no trade list. So he provided that to Dorian in which Dorian didn't. Yeah. That he didn't provide. Then the agent came forward with proof he had submitted that no trade list.

So he provided that to Dorian in which Dorian didn't, yeah, that he didn't provide. I'm surprised at the take on this. As former players, do you think that it was right for Evgeny Dadunov to be traded when he had trade protection and he and his family had to go through this, then return to the same team? It's a serious transgression which deserves serious consequences so after reading that i'm like well it's just a kick in the dick for for this new owner for the ottawa centers to buy the team and get absolutely hammered with all this bullshit that's going on and that was before the game on saturday had been played in which the players got booed off the ice they're calling for the coach's head and then brady kachuk has to in the media in the post-game presser tell the fans to back off and that it's bullshit they're coming after the coach if you don't think this team is the ottawa headline hogs right now you're out of your fucking mind this is the

Kardashian family on acid I love every second of it they are now my fourth team I am jumping on the Ottawa Senators bandwagon and keep in mind they are facing as much of adversity as any team if not more right now in the league probably more so than Edmonton and Toronto put together. And what was the last thing I was just going to say about them? I forgot. I'll hand it over to you. Well, I'm pretty sure it's not Dorian on the call for that.

Okay. So, okay. So here's another thing is they were a notoriously cheap organization where I don't think that there was a lot of people hired in places that should have been hired. And he was basically doing numerous jobs. And sometimes when you're juggling all this different shit, man, that's when more shit ends up happening. Okay, I do agree with that.

And Melnick, we'll get into Dorian in a second. I do agree with that. And Melnick, we'll get into Dorian in a second. Now, in terms of the trade call and how it broke down, basically what the main issue was, besides the embarrassment for the league in which a player is traded, this news comes out. It sucks for the player, as your source told you. All of a sudden, you've got to go back to a team who tried to trade you. Your no trade list was made public, at least one of the the teams which players are pretty open about not wanting to share right like you don't want fan bases to know where you don't want to go i think that's fair but what happened was the ducks and the golden knights they're the ones that are pissed

off because they had you know they were getting a draft pick they wanted the draft pick that they were going to get for dad and all and there's all these different things so it's like well we're the ones getting hosed here on information we weren't given. Now my thing is, and maybe I'm totally off base here, but with central registry and the league having every contract in place, like they can't do double checks in terms of like, all right,

actually like there is a no trade list on this guy. Well, maybe we should double check too. Cause we've said, I think the ducks anducks and the Sharks. So who did he actually get traded to? He got trade. Vegas tried trading him to the Ducks.

OK, the Ducks were on his no trade list. My thing is, like, do you not agree that almost like the NHL Central Registry should be looking at the contract, too? It's like just it's another set of eyes so that this doesn't happen. I guess they're putting the onus on the teams, which, I mean, gives less of a job for all the dealings that the NHL is doing with all these trades and signings. So I understand that. But I was surprised that something like this could get through, although your source says it happens a lot more than we think. So it was just a brutal way for Ann Lauer.

And I'll say this about him. If you're an Ottawa Senators fan, you've got to be fired up because that is a press conference uh that an owner gives that makes a fan base excited and happy because this guy's speaking up against the league he's saying listen you didn't you didn't give me I I was buying a card you didn't tell me that the engine's been replaced like obviously that's an exaggeration but you didn't you didn't fill me in and then he goes on to say well he's they're trying to get the most money for the seller and and that's a pretty damning statement enough to enough of which i've read that like betman at one point probably called him and said like hey i don't know if he got a pp whack as much as he would have if he hadn't just gotten fucked over by the league as much as he did

but you're not able. I mean, this is like it's the silence in this league, right? We got Anlauer versus Bettman in a rough and rowdy, and we got the undercard of Brady and DJ Smith going against the fans who are booing. This is fucking heating up, baby. It's a drama-filled team, and they're off to another horrible start, dude. They're off to a start, which this is the starts under DJ Smith. 2019, 2020, 8, 11, and 1 one in there for these are all first 20 games, 2021, five, 14 and one,

21, 22, four, 15 and one, 22, 23, seven, 12 and one. These fans. And, and I don't, I don't blame them. Like they, every year they're off to a start, which you really can't fight back from a lot of times. And this year, we got to get off to a better start. And sure as shit, with all the madness around the organization, it's happened again. So I don't really blame the fans for, like, enough. Like, we want a new coach. Now, Brady's argument, and an argument in terms of keeping DJ Smith,

is, like, they do play hard. A lot of times when you see coaches get fired, forget the losses. It's like lack of effort, lack of discipline. Like they're starting games poorly. They've started the season poorly. But in all of these losses against Tampa, the other one at home, they're like mounting comebacks at the end. And Brady mentioned like we're not giving up. So for the fans to look at that and say,

yeah, you're not giving up, but you're losing, and you're starting poorly again. And we have this roster that is capable of winning games, and every single year we suck, and then we're fighting to get back in the mix. So I understand the fans. But for Pierre Dorian, I'll say this. If Ottawa goes on to win the Stanley Cup someday,

he has a lot of Dale Talon on the Chicago Blackhawks. Because you look at what he's created. He's got Sanderson locked up long term. He's got Chabot locked up. He's got Stutzel. He's got Kachuk. He's got Batherson. He's got Norris.

He's built a core that I think can get the job done in the NHL. I don't know about winning a Stanley Cup. But he's had guys, young guys, buy in and sign long term. Has he had some fuck ups? No doubt. Was he getting fired after this? No doubt. I mean, this is like a new owner comes in. There's a chance you get fired anyways. Well, he got fired from being a GM. He's still allowed to be the secretary and a few other jobs that he had in the meantime. I just think that in the end, if Ottawa goes on to have success that their fan base believes that they can have, Pierre Dorian will have a lot of respect

within that fan base years down the line. You reminded me of my brain fart there when I forgot what I was going to say. Their record the last few seasons in the month of November is 5-20-2. Kelly Rudy was talking about it so you talk about those notoriously bad starts the month of november has not been good to the ottawa senators to to defend dj smith and the team though um throughout that course of time when

they have finally had norris batherson pinto and brady kachuk all playing in the lineup at the same time their record is drastically better so they have had dealt with their, their injury adversity and their Pinto parlay adversity. Um, but as far as DJ Smith's concern, like, I don't think he should be fired this early. I think that they should allow all these guys to get back in the lineup in order to see what they have. So probably wait till the end of the year. I know that there's a lot of pressure and win now and make playoffs now and Ann Lauer might just want a clean house and want a clean slate going into next season and maybe get a new guy in there to see how he can feel around the team but ultimately if you go back to that Ottawa Tampa game I wasn't crazy with Corpus Allo getting pulled after that third goal. There was two goals that were scored off deflections. Like, were they the best of goals? No, that third one was after he got, when he got yanked and you saw Corpozalo go to the bench and chuck a stick down the hallway. So managing the goaltenders, I would say that that wasn't a good call in the midst of that game.

But overall, if Brady Kachuk, who's in the locker room, wants him as a coach, is going to bat for him, some of you are going to say, well, what else is he supposed to do? Well, I'm pretty sure that they have a great relationship. And as you said, Whit, it seems like the guys don't quit on him and they want to compete for him. They're just dealing with some early growing pains from being a young team. I agree. I think it's too early to fire him.

I think in 10 more games, if they go 2-8 in the next 10, I think he's probably gone because they have to get back in this race. But in terms of their play, when they lost to LA, I think it was Chikrin after who said, that team just plays with so much structure. Like LA's on a roll right now. They have a hell of a team. They're deep. They're deep.

They're heavy. And saying like, wow, the structure they play with, it's just so hard to get anything done. It's in a sense saying like we don't have that structure right now. And so I don't think it is on DJ Smith. I think you got to give this a little bit more time. You got to get guys healthy. And Pinto won't be back till January or whatever it is. But at some point, the anvil will fall on Smith if it doesn't get turned around.

So this is the flip side to wanting the league going younger. Like the skill level is high. Everybody's flying around, toe dragging, the releases. Everything about the game from the skill aspect has gotten better. But look at the teams that really, really suck at structure. Toronto, they're brutal. They give up a ton of goals going back to the night against Buffalo, 6-5 game.

Buffalo is one of those teams as well. All these younger teams. The oil. All these younger teams that are hoping that they take the next step, it all goes back to the fact that they're playing too loose and they don't play well as a five-man connected unit that's why i'm bullish on the la kings not just because they have these monster in the monsters in the center of the ice but because they're older and they understand how to play a 200 foot game as well as how they're able to draft and develop like when you when you get drafted by

the kings usually they they pick guys who are going to eventually slot into that role. They don't just try to go for all these skill guys and say, hey, hopefully we fucking pull a rabbit out of our ass and all these guys are going to end up lighting the league on fire. No, in the later rounds, they draft guys where they're going to say, well, we're going to eventually need a guy to step in as a fourth defenseman who's going to help kill penalties, block shots, play physical.

He's going to be good in the net front. Not all these guys who are fucking toe-dragging pylons during the summertime. They need guys to fill in certain roles. So, I mean, when you have these teams that are average age 25, 26, go watch how they play as a five-man connected unit and how long is it going to take DJ Smith

to get through to some of these young guys who have never had to play with that type of structure because they were lighting up the junior ranks and flourishing in that regard. Well, in the NHL, man, if you're going to fucking play like that, you're going to get bit in the ass by these teams who know how to play as a unit. That's as simple as that, man. watch any fucking game against those two types of teams and watch who gets eaten alive i see a lot of people complain they basically just play a dump and chase game and they the system's not right for for the caliber of talent they have is do you agree with that basically biz i mean but i'm sorry go ahead well no no it's a great question

right so you look at the other side in which, for instance, Buffalo is given a lot more leash. They're saying go have at it, and then we'll reel it in from there to try to teach them game situation. But if you have a team with that much young skill, I would not say dumping and chasing is the way to go. You want to have clean zone entries and and lead in that category that's why you have those types of skill guys so the dump and chase game i don't i don't know i mean there's a but there's also a time and a place already if a team is is good at back pressuring

and they're able to maintain a good gap well you're not going to try a move at the line you're going to have to place the puck in a certain area and then go get it so but if you look at Stutzel and you look at uh say Norris and Bathurston like if you got a bunch of Brady Kachuks throw it in there and go get it back they don't necessarily have a ton of those guys like they don't like their old team those teams that were wagons like remember Chris Neal and a guy like even Vermette was smaller but he was a dog. And Chris Kelly, like a smart, he'd go dump it in and get it. They have skill, so dumping it in, yeah.

If you don't have the personnel to get it back, it makes no sense. We can't say anything good about any oiler this episode. As for the open position, Steve Stahels, he's the president of Hockey Ops. He's not going to take it over. He's going to find the new one. And I think it's going to be like we've been seeing a lot, a GM and a president kind of working together with the GM allegedly having the final say. Also, Elliott Friedman said a few executives told him

that the punishment was so bad because the NHL felt it was, quote, misled during the investigations. That's a big no-no is one of the quotes that Elliott got. But someone else... Sorry, all right. That is a thing we should bring up. Like, me bringing up that the NHL should maybe be, like, double-checking all this,

and maybe I'm so off-base, but for Chicago and what went on there, which is now being brought up again with another player suing the team, for them to be fined money, ask Anlauer, dude. He'll pay a fine, but don't take away a first-round pick. Chicago didn't lose a first-round pick. And Jersey lost a first-round pick back in the Kovalchuk saga,

and then it was rescinded. So I don't know if this is over. I don't know if Ottawa has a chance to turn this into a second-round pick loss. But that's where you look at the league and the inconsistencies of saying, how does the Chicago Blackhawks, after that entire ordeal, not lose

a first round pick, and the Senators do? To me, that is bullshit. Just favoritism with an old franchise that the league's been friends with. He is. There's no other way to put it. It is redonkulous. You consider what they did. And yeah, the New Jersey pick,

that was from the Kovalchuk sign. And they never had to forfeit that pick because new owners came over. So they didn't want to penalize the new owners. Come on. Yeah. And lower has every right to be bullshit. Yeah.

Absolutely. And as far as Pinto, that wasn't actually technically NHL discipline. It was a negotiated settlement that's why no one knows what happened officially because it's a confidentiality agreement so nobody knows what's going to happen but you never know what's happening in the

NHL they released two sentences on the draft pick that Ottawa had to give up it's just they say whatever they want to do and that's it and they don't take questions and there you go so then you know you got guys out there doing some digging trying to figure all this out when in the end fans are left wondering why are there so many inconsistencies in punishments coming down from the commissioner's office one thing i do know about this ottawa situation

brady kachuk is a hell of a fucking captain and leader for going to bat for his coach in that post-game presser and he shows it he shows up night in night out I think he had two goals in that one against Tampa Bay so just a dog and a shitty situation for Ottawa and a team that we want to see make playoffs and uh and go on a bit of a run here yeah Elliot also said a bunch of players reached out to the agents saying you know not knowing if they might have been violating the same thing Shane was because it was so vague. And basically, it's, you know, if your friends joke with you, don't. Excuse me.

Excuse me. I got to fly, mate. Oh, my God. Keep this on the YouTube. What's going on over there, R.A.? I can't see what's happening. No, I had a cough. I don't want to have groceries out whenever I come out.

No problem. No problem, buddy. Hope you're all right. Did you just spit a loogie on the floor? No, no, no. No, I grabbed the napkin.

So, yeah, basically all these players, they don't know if they're breaking these rules or whatever. So, basically, they're just telling them don't place bets

with third parties. Don't joke around with anyone. And these kids are young, man. And all you see is gambling everywhere nowadays. So, I think it's easy for these kids to probably fall in and make a mistake like that. But that's why I think they're

hanging fucking Pinto's nose to the wall like this. It's way too much. But how about this one for you? When Ian Lauer was buying the Senators, he had to sell off the 10% of the Canadians that he owned. He bought 10% of the Canadians way back in 09. You know what he got for 10% of the Canadians? This number fucking. You know what he got for 10% of the Canadians?

This number fucking blew me away. $130 million? I was going to say $160 million. Not even close. So if we're valuing them at $1.5, $150 billion? $2.5 billion for the 10% of the Canadians.

$2.5 billion already? So he got $250 million. No, $2.5 billion. there's not a chicken dicks chance all right that means the team's worth fucking 200 billion dollars 250 billion wit no all right all right all right no no this adds humor and comedy to the podcast this is just as it is as wonderful as last week. We were talking about how horrendous the San Jose Sharks were. And then you went out of your way to compliment the goaltenders. And they have gotten bent over for 10 goals in back-to-back games, buddy.

Year of the hog. Hey, so I just looked it up. It's 10% of a $2.5 billion evaluation. Correct, so $250 million. Okay, yeah, I should have. That's all right. You're the hog, baby. You're the hog.

As long as you can imagine, the Canadians were worth $200 billion. Actually, you know what they were worth when he bought into them? I think I got this one right. The Habs were worth $575 million back in 2009. Now they're worth at least over $2 billion. That's a crazy fucking increase.

Holy shit. And they also got the AHL Belleville team in the deal. And Melnick Estate still has 10% of the cents as well. Alright, before we go any further, here's a few words from our friends at Sport Clips. Your hair may grow fast,

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Big matchup. Every time these two teams play, it's usually a high-intensity, entertaining game. Goes down to the Y and Bruins won 3-2 in a shootout. I thought the goalies, both of them, were incredible. Sampson offhand, Swayman that night. But Brad Boshan making noise again.

Him and Timothy Lilligren went to the corner. People think Boshan tripped them. Other people think it was incidental. Biz, what's your take on it? And did he deserve a penalty or any sort of punishment? So I think people who think Brad Boshan is guilty are trying to label it as like a can opener um there was there's a lot to break down about this the leafs reaction the comeback like you said already just a crazy game so for those of you who think it was dirty and marshall should be

suspended based on reputation uh watch the clip over now the if you if you see the the clip that is from over his right shoulder from marsha looking the other way it doesn't really look that good to make a case for him but if you watch the angle from their backs what you'll see is is lil grin going into the corner looks at marsha first and then takes ice to go meet him and make contact over towards Marsha so not only did Lilgren make contact they both know what's going on they're going into the corner for a battle for the puck so what do they try to do they try to tie up sticks so they meet about halfway in the stick battle this is where it looks like Brad Marchand as the stick battle is won gets his gets Lilgren's left foot but it doesn't happen at that point so when the stick battle

goes to 50-50 the way that Lilgren ends up positioning himself to go in to make contact his legs are spread so far apart so as soon as Lilgren and Marsha are making their way closer to the corner, Lilgren's turning his body where he has to not only get on the inside edge of his right foot, he then brings his left foot over to get to his outside edge so he can make a two foot stop to secure himself from not hammering into the wall but as he brings his left foot in that's where it ends up meeting the blade the blade of Marchand's stick and as Marchand's trying to pull his stick out to then make a play on the puck it looks as if though he can opens him so you can stop and freeze frame this as much as you want but that is going into the corner for

a straight up puck battle and like I said at the point of where marshawn stick was when they finished off the stick battle and it got as far over to the left as possible lilgren brings his foot to make contact with marshawn's blade so if you're looking over the angle of the the shot over marshawn's right shoulder yeah it's not gonna look good but look at the other angle in order to make your decision so i know that some of you who are leaf fans or just marsha haters in general want him suspended for that nah that's a straight up fucking puck battle now the response from the leafs that's a completely different story now before i go into that do you agree with my

breakdown of the fact that he shouldn't have been suspended yeah I think it could have been a two minute call but no suspension on that and and if he'd gone in and somehow pushed him from behind and he's got the sprained ankle he's out this long we're talking a different story Lingren bumped into him first trying to get that body contact out of the way trying to kind of initiate a bump and then being able to protect the puck and boom it was a shitty break and probably a penalty but in no way is that a suspension i don't care who it is and if it wasn't marshawn who did it if that's jake de bros no one's saying a word suspension wise yeah and so another thing too is they brought up

a good point on hockey night in canada i think it it was Kelly Rudy. There's been a lot of – Oh, were you on that this week? I was on – I don't know if you guys heard. 303,000 on the YouTube channel, and I was on Hockey Night in Canada this past week. Not a big deal. He just brought up the point that it happened quite a bit in the last week, so it was maybe something to look out for. It happened to Ian Cole in Vancouver where he was going back,

and that was more on an icing, much like the Kale McCarr one which people were freaking out about when Oposo ended up pushing his hip so going into the wall is you know it's a these guys are traveling fast and the minute that you make contact anything can happen and this is a big component as to why they ended up taking out that uh the the touch-up icing right because when you're going that fast back, it could end up catastrophic. Now, as a Leafs fan and just somebody who wants to touch on team culture, I thought the way that they handled Marchand

after that went down was pathetic. I know that most of you who've seen the clip of at least Reeves saying something to him, but I've played on one championship team in pro hockey, and it was with the Manchester Monarchs. If that would have happened on our team and that reaction would have took place, Mike Stothers would have had that clip of the bench and Marshawn going by chirping and then a bad look with Bertuzzi kind of chuckling. That to me was obviously the, the, probably the worst look of all of it, but he would have walked in the room. He would have had the video guy set up the, the, the laptop to the TV. He would have played the

clip. He would have stopped it. He would have looked around. He would have rewinded it. He would have played it one more time. He would have looked around and then he would have put the, the laser pointer down and he would have walked out of the room and everybody in the locker room would have had to look around and face themselves as to how pathetic it was and how they handled that situation i don't care and you might be listening and saying well you're being a hypocrite you're saying it wasn't a dirty hit well they didn't know that they didn't know it wasn't a dirty play and it doesn't matter it doesn't fucking matter exactly when it doesn't matter you stick up for your teammate and it's brad marshall and you're in a competitive game in the atlantic fighting for fucking points and especially for some of these guys trying to establish themselves

on a new team especially Bertuzzi that that play if you would have if it would have been Manchester there would have been four or five depth guys that would have been standing up and as Brad Marchand skated by the bench they would have followed him all the way to the end and they would have been yelling at him letting him know that they were have followed him all the way to the end, and they would have been yelling at him, letting him know that they were going to take his fucking head off the rest of the game. And that's what was weird, Biz. It's like Tavares, Yarncroke.

Yeah, Reeves is yelling, but how are they not five guys standing up fucking all giving it to him? It's just like they're looking at him. And for Tuesday laughing, I will say, I think he was more laughing like, you fucking asshole. Like a disgusted laugh, but still, it's the visual, dude. So also a clip surfaced of he was asked

before the game after morning skate. It was a reporter goes, why don't you just play it? Learn about Marchand being a teammate with him that you did not know beforehand. That he's a good guy. Just play it. Learn about Marchand, being a teammate with him that you did not know beforehand. That he's a good guy. What makes him a good guy?

He's just easy to get along with. You know, he's funny. And, yeah, he's just a lot of fun to be around. Do you think you have kind of the insider information on him now that will be easier to kind of deal with him if he tries to get you off your game? Yeah, I know. He's just full of s**t now. But he will be easier to kind of deal with him if he tries to get you off your game yeah i know he's just full of now um but he's probably gonna try to do something tonight but so probably not a good timeline of him saying and playing tummy sticks pre-game with brad marshall but i understand that bertuzzi's in a tough spot i honestly feel that he left his heart in boston much like i feel like Hubert O left his heart in Florida, right?

Because Bertuzzi, I know he only played there for a little bit, but he went over to a team that he assumed was going to end up going on a run and winning a Stanley Cup with. And it seemed like him and Brad Marchand really hit it off. And for whatever reason, which I'm assuming it was a cap situation, they couldn't pay Bertuzzi and bring him back the way that that he wanted to be compensated and they just couldn't work it out so he finds the next best thing which is Toronto he gets to go there on a one-year deal making 5.5 to prove himself

and then with the cap going up next year he can go sign wherever the fuck he wants and make the money that he thinks he deserves so I guess my advice would be it sucks that that had happened. It looks horrible. The coach called it out. The GM called it out after the game. But from here on out, like you have to understand how passionate Leafs fans are. And now that you're signing this team, you have to bleed blue. So regardless of your relationship with Bradad marshall when something like that happens or moving forward when they play against each other when when he goes into

a collision and hurts your teammate you can't be sitting down on the bench chuckling at whatever he's saying back to revo regardless of what he's chuckling about wit it just looks horrible and it looks like he's not engaged emotionally and this isn't just in the game against Boston this is other than a few bright spots and maybe a few good games like he has not looked like he did in Boston he doesn't look like that same player and in fact all of the signings that the Leaf have had and the guys that they brought in between Domi, Klingberg, Reeves, have had and the guys that they brought in between Domi, Klingberg, Reeves, Bertuzzi, they don't have a five-on-five goal yet in, what, 11 games now?

So this was a big wake-up call, in my opinion, for the Leafs. But then they bring that effort against the Buffalo Sabres, which disgusted me even further. Oh, let's not stop there, Biz, because they're down 4-1 with five minutes left in the first period right now. Samsonov just got pulled after allowing four on 12 shots. He didn't really have a chance on Kucherov's second, the third goal. He didn't have a chance on Point's goal to make it 4-1. He slams his helmet on the bench. It is a disaster in Leafland. Luckily, my team in Edmonton is buzzing right along.

So things are good in E-Town, and things are shit in Toronto. And I will say, Biz, when Bertuzzi went over there, there was a crazy amount of playoff success. Granted, it was seven games. And I think he's looking at it like, I'm a Canadian kid. I'm going back to playing Toronto. And the idea of playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs is an amazing idea. It's an amazing thought.

Being on a successful Leafs team, I can't imagine much better in the league, just knowing what it means to that city, knowing the popularity. But when you go there and you struggle, then you see the other side. You see the side from players' point of views where they're like, I don't ever want to play there.

And right now, he's going through it, and the entire team's going through it. And the entire team's going through it. And the only thing I'll say that's a big-time worry, championship teams have often had to be called out by their coach or their GM for play, right? Like the Chicago Blackhawks, you remember the losing streaks they went on. I think in two of their three cups, they might have had like eight, nine-game losing streaks

at one point during the year. And they're not playing the right way. And they're turning pucks over. And the discipline's not there. I don't ever remember a championship team getting called out for something like this. No. Because there's never issues. There's issues in terms of the PK or the power play or effort.

But backing each other up and being a family, dude, that is never something that championship teams have to be questioned about. What happened last year? Hold on. You go back to Vegas and what they fucking did to that guy who ran over Mark Stoner in an exhibition game. Bingo. And it's like, it's just the whole culture there.

It's just, it's a couple of superstars that get their points. And yeah, Matthews and marner and neil under their unreal players and tavaris is a point per game guy but like where's the juice where's where's the fire and this is for a lot of teams around the league and then you see vegas and you see a team like la and you just see these teams that stick together and you fuck with one you fuck with all and that being a point of contention early on is a disaster of a sign dude it really is agreed and i was just going to point out remember when uh i forget who it was who bumped into vasilevsky there was 10 before vasilevsky hit the ice in tampa was flying in there there was 10 gloves

in the air and fists were being thrown it's a it's a non-negotiable. And this is the issue that they addressed in the offseason. This is why they brought in Reeves. This is why they brought in Domi. And this is why they brought in Bertuzzi for some sandpaper. So I tweeted this out. Bertuzzi's the type of guy that might take him about 20 games to get going because sometimes, you know, these guys back their way in. Did he have the luxury to do that?

No. You brought up an incredible point in the fact that some of these guys they oh i'm gonna go play in toronto they love the idea of it yeah wait a minute yeah until you have a 10 game cold skid and all of a sudden you're in the witness protection program for crying out loud and this the last time i was talking to carlo coleakovo last week i was asking about the state of leafs like how this this wall kid and other other dynamics to the group. He goes, Biz, like, he goes, I'm not a Leafs hater. He goes, but this fan base, the last time they had success was with the Gilmores,

you know, the Wendell Clarks. Wendell Clarks, dude. The last time they had success, they at least went down swinging. And I think that at least if they get that, they can sleep at night. So a complete wake-up call, which I thought after the Sabre game, and then now you're telling me the Tampa game's going horrendous too. The positive news is though, is I believe the last

three, four seasons, they have been 500 after about 10 to 12 games. And then after that, they ended up going on a big time winning streak and we all know they're going to make games. And then after that, they ended up going on a big time winning streak. And we all know they're going to make playoffs. So listen, not time to hit the panic button just yet, but not a good sign as far as that championship pedigree in which I mentioned that Tampa has, Vegas has, and we had with the Manchester Monarchs, thanks to Mike Southers and the group. Well, it wasn't all bad for them, Biz. Mike Southers in the group. Well, it wasn't all bad for them, Biz.

Austin Matthews had his third hat trick of the season already, and sadly he's lost to Buffalo. This one attracted a sizable brassiere. Did you see the giant bra that got thrown on the ice? It's like a drink concert. That girl has cannons. If that was real, she's got absolute bazookas. More like AM-34-DD, Biz. How long did you have that in the fucking holster? Boogaloo bazookas. More like AM34 double D biz. All right.

How long did you have that in the fucking whole story? I had it fucking tuned up there. Yeah, 10th hat trick of his career. Now he's fourth all-time for Leafs, man. He's still got a long way to go. Also, the Leafs and Sabres, they were one of three double-digit games Saturday, and it contributed to a new record. 114 goals were scored on Saturday, the most ever

in one day. Previous record was 104, blew it out of the water. That comes out to 7.6 goals per game. There were two three-goal comebacks, four hat-tricks, and here's one firebiz. 52 penalty shots all last season. There were 13 in October alone. They got 15 now

already, so we've been seeing tons of them. We used to never see these things 20, 30 years ago. How many of the 15 resulted in goals already, you know? I didn't tally it. Honestly, I should have. 2.5 billion. One of my long-standing

complaints, if you're given a penalty shot, you should have the chance to take the power play instead. I would rather a power play than a penalty shot unless you should have the chance to take the power play instead. Oh, okay. I would rather a power play than a penalty shot, unless it's your best player or, you know, an unreal breakaway guy. I think you should be given the option. Yeah, that's actually an interesting call. I agree.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that. 52 already, man? I mean, you should have maybe won a month back, probably 20 years ago. You know? 52 already? Didn't you just say there were 15 52 last season there were 52 last season there were 32 so i'm fucking reading 52 last season 13 in october and there's 15 through the season already so it's at a crazy rate we got bettman versus anlauer we got dj smith and brady kachuk against the fans and then we got R.A. against numbers this podcast. Seriously, dude.

You know what? I think there's probably time to send it over to Derek Stepan. I'm not even sure if we told the folks he was going to be on, but... Yeah, we had Derek Stepan and a little... It's a quick interview. He didn't tell us that he had a tee time

about seven minutes after the interview. So we're going to get him on again. He's actually, as we mentioned in the show, going to be a little bit of a contributor. So Derek Stepan, an amazing career. Congrats to him. A long run in the league. Check it out right now. This interview is brought to you by Chevy. Chevy is working to make charging simple with over 110,000 charging stations across US and Canada and growing. Your smartphone becomes your co-pilot when using the MyChevrolet mobile app with Energy Assist. We're trying to get Grinnelli to get into the Chevy EV mode.

He needs a car. He needs a truck. I say no better option than Chevy. I actually saw one driving on 93 South the other day. Looks so sharp. Thing also moves at a nice pace. Just a beautiful vehicle. I heard it's an incredibly smooth drive too, Whit. I think that's super important. I'm driving Boston to New York a lot. That three and a half, four hour drive, you need something smooth, nothing smoother than a Chevy EV. Oh, and like I said, the app, you can just control everything from there. It allows you to access vehicle information like battery status and charging settings from anywhere. The energy assist

features intelligently plans your routes, tells you where and how long to charge up, and gives you real-time data and charging station availability. That's what's nice, right? You find out there's a charging station, but this actually tells you if they're all full, and you got to find another one. So that app is a game changer. There are three different home charging levels available. Chevy electric vehicles offer great options for charging. All of them as simple as just plugging in your smartphone. So learn more at chevy.com slash electric. That's chevy.com slash electric. Get involved. Well, it's a pleasure to bring on our next guest. This gutsy and reliable sent the just retired after a 13 year NHL career with the Rangers,

Coyotes, Senators and Hurricanes. He played 1010 regular season and playoff games, including the Stanley Cup final appearance in 2014. He also made the playoffs in 10 of his 13 seasons and never spent a day in the minus. Thanks a bunch for joining us on the spit and chicklets podcast. Derek Stepon, congrats on the retirement brother. How you doing?

He loved it. When he smiled, when you said didn't stay a day in the minors, Hey, look at him smiling. He never got to experience that in a silver spoon or more than you look like R.A.'s son. Are you guys related?

Do you have something to tell him? All right. No, I played in the minors oh he does that's awesome well hey congrats on a great career man I mean I'm sure it's been uh a difficult decision but uh I mean how do you feel where do you lie and I'm sure grateful for for some awesome time spent in the National Hockey League yeah obviously uh it was a it was a hell of a run and i enjoyed every second of it and uh you know it was it was um you know as the summer went on you kind of i kind of sensed that it was coming to an end um and uh i have no issues with it i'm looking forward to the

next step um which currently is a tea time so So if you guys can wrap up quickly. It's winter, it's coming here in Minnesota. But no, I'm in a good place. Like I said, I had a great run, a ton of fun and met some great people along the way. And I'm grateful for a lot of people that helped me get to here. And I appreciate you guys giving me the platform to say thanks to all those people.

That's awesome. Well, congrats. And we got to let people know. So we got hit with the tea time because you don't have much time, or I guess you do have a little bit of free time. So you have 30 minutes. We have to talk, obviously Rangers, uh, we kind of mentioned the retirement, but also your kind of mind is wanting to become a GM, but I guess I'll hand it over to you, all right, to ask about the Rangers stuff. Oh, I got to kick right into the Rangers. Derek, you were there first, what, 70 years of your career?

When you first got there, it was a very young team. Like, how did Tortorella run the locker room? Was there like a designated sheriff? How did that play out with so many young guys on the team? Well, Tort's ran the locker room. He was on top of it. They made the switch to kind of go younger, He was on top of it.

They made the switch to kind of go younger, and we were kind of the first group to be under the torts realm. And he was on us. I mean, training camp was crazy. We had, like, crazy skate tests. I mean, they still do a lot of stuff, but we had some crazy tests when I first started. And that's kind of where we started. And we kind of had this mucky group that kind of just bought into it and and went along with it as you know as as he demanded it and and that's what made us

successful and then obviously we had the superstar and then that with Hank which you know anytime that he was in that you got a chance to win so those kind of that was kind of the formula and torts was you know torts was kind of heading the whole thing so when you left school you lit it up sophomore year it was quite obvious it was time to go pro, but did you kind of expect to make the team? And when you went in there, were you like, I don't know how this is going to play out.

Like how did camp go in terms of making the NHL roster right out of school? So when I finished my season in Wisconsin, they called me and said, you're going to probably go back for your junior year. Oh, they said that. Yeah. So I was like,

okay, sounds good. And then I think they had like a meeting and towards is like, I want younger to probably go back for your junior year. Oh, they said that. Yeah. So I was like, okay, sounds good. And then I think they had like a meeting and torts was like, I want younger guys. So then I got a call like in June, like saying, actually, you know what? We want you to sign. So I didn't know what to expect. I was actually kind of hesitant to sign because I was like, well, you just told me that you want me back now. Like,

I don't want to be in the minors. I don't want to be, I don't want to do that. But no, once I signed, I kind of just went into camp thinking, if I'm in Hartford to start, that's the case. It is what it is. And it kind of just went from there. And I had a great Traverse City, and then it led into preseason, and Torts loved me right from the start. So I got to play in every situation and and it kind of just kept

building and then obviously night one i scored a hat trick and that's a good start make them look good eh ed torrance brought me into his office he's like well you bought yourself 20 games did you get your apartment letter then or did you already have it well he the funny thing about the apartment letter he called me like it was like after christmas and he like we're doing like the you know indie 500 before practice where guys get he loves that one 50 minutes and everyone's just skating laps and he comes up to me after and he's like hey uh you got your apartment right and i was like no no one said anything to me because oh that's my bad stuff i was supposed to tell you like a month and a half ago oh hey do you think he actually did it to save you some money from new york city rent or did he never say that i was good

because i was i was living in like a extended stay with like ruslan fedotenko so he was taking care of me so it actually kind of worked out in a in a weird way i i you mentioned like torts loved you it makes sense playing against you talking to teammates of yours like just a super smart player high hockey iq so did it crack you up at times like if torts did like you and and was pretty good too but he'd just be torturing gabrick you're like jesus christ like this guy's scoring 40 and getting ripped on constantly yeah he i mean i think the the the thing was is like when i came in he was like i was whatever Torch said I was going to do. And he knew it. So you never had to drive it in where Gabby was an older guy. And he was like, kind of like, I've seen a bunch of coaches like we're not we're not doing this right now.

I was like, yeah, whatever you say. Like, I was just out there like I had brown on my nose. Like, whatever you say, Torch, I'm just going to go do it. Before that first game, didn't they say they were only planning on giving you one game and maybe sending you back yeah so there was always talk of that and then you know I mean I thought for sure it was going to be Hartford and then I think Torts kind of

you know he just he brought me in he was like hey I need 20 games I played like 20 games with like Bugard and Pruss on the fourth line we weren't playing a whole lot and then game 23 or 24, he brought me in. He's like, get ready to go. You're going to play.

And I played with Froloff and Gabrick the rest of the year. Wow. So how'd you get that Hattie first game on the fourth line? No disrespect to the fourth liners, but. I wasn't on that line. Eric Christensen, I think was hurt game one. So I played with Fedotenko and Sean Avery, which Sean Avery is like part of three or four

first game hat tricks i don't know if you guys see that is he no way that might be a crazier stat than the halsey one assisting on uh on four first overall pick schools he's he's assisted on how many or he's been a part of like three i remember seeing something it was like three out of four like so the what was the kid's name in Dallas oh um the Fabian Brunstrom yep and then there and then there was like he was like something crazy some crazy stat like that so you have to look it up I'm not 100% sure but I remember seeing that but yeah so it was Eric Christensen was a little banged up and I think he was out so I played up with that that group that first game what was it like being thrown into that whirlwind of like the NHL and

like being you know Hank's your goalie you have Sean Avery on your team you know you're you're probably in the tabloids if you're going out to dinner with these guys like what was it like were you single back then no I was dating Stephanie okay but no it was it was I don't it was such a blur like I was just like just in this autopilot like I had a good traverse city so I was like well maybe you know you autopilot, like I had a good Traverse City. So I was like, well, maybe, you know, you start thinking, well, maybe I could stick around and then you have a good preseason game. And it's like, now that, now that, you know, the media is talking about, well, maybe step on should stick around and then it starts to build.

So you're just like so focused in. Then once the dust kind of settled and you're like, I mean, I was 20, so I wasn't really like allowed to be out drinking. It was, I was just young and I lived in the suburbs, you know, I was 20, so I wasn't really allowed to be out drinking. I was just young. And I lived in the suburbs. I lived in White Plains for the first, like, until Christmas, basically, past Christmas. So it was a lot harder to get into the city.

Sometimes after games, I'd stay in with Delzato. But for the most part, I'd go back out. Was he pitching apartment sales to you when you were hanging out with him, the big real estate mogul? I don't think Delzato was doing real estate then, was he? No, he wasn't. No, he was not. He is now, so if you need a condo, let him know.

He was doing construction work with the pile driver. Hey, we couldn't bring it up on the interview. I don't even know if we're going to have dropped it yet by the time we drop yours, but we didn't bring up that whole Lisa and thing. Did that happen when he was playing with the Rangers? It was it wasn't when it wasn't when I was there. So he he was there with us for three, two years. Then he got traded to Nashville for Kevin Klein.

Yeah, I don't know. That was after. So I can't can't comment. I always like to ask guys who played in New York especially when you guys are going through these runs like did you get any fun celebrity interactions like who did you end up bonding with in the city who maybe is you know a known name um I I didn't I mean I got to meet some people but I didn't really like bond with a whole lot of people um uh geez I yeah it was kind of I mean obviously the Mark from OAR, you guys, I don't

know. Oh, he's a great guy. I, I met him at a little show he did. I went with Keith Yandel, a bunch of guys, and then he was at Hazy's wedding. He's awesome. Oh, unreal dude. Unreal dude. And like Tanner Glass lived in the same apartment complex as them.

And one night, like Tanner's wife was like, hey, you want to come to his wife? You want to come to the game? And it was like they didn't even know that it was Mark at the time. No shit. And then it just started to blow from there. Step, you played Ryan McDonough two years in college, then the first seven years in the pro. Are you still in touch with him on a frequent basis?

Not as much as we'd like with family and stuff like that. He was the best man at my wedding. We were like, when we were at school, we played video. We were kind of nerds, but we played video games all the time. And then our first few years in New York, we always lived like literally one floor from each other. So we spent a lot of time together. We were boys. And as we grew up and got families, we got busy and we've lost a little bit of touch.

And he plays to June every year, too. So it's hard to connect with him when he's going for a cup every year so were you were you uh like top five drunkest guys at his cup parties i didn't go to either no shit yeah you were golfing yeah exactly there's more important things in life with yeah, you're like, I didn't win it. Good job, Mac. Was he just a machine in college too, though? Yeah. Like scary numbers in the gym. Really?

Yeah, because you know, like college. Yeah, all you're doing is working out. Yeah, you're lifting. We're talking like Olympic lifts. At Wisconsin, we had these plaques, and Mac was a freak. I don't mean to chirp you step but i think who did i reach out to i think it was uh uh we had him on gerardi and he said at your end of the year meeting with vignot one year and you broke your jaw mind you and played through it he said that

you had a body like a professional bowler now we were talking about mcdonough being a maniac in the gym you were a guy who who didn't train in the off season right or not much i would do like i would do like the bare minimum so basically be like monday was optional because you're monday tuesday i was in the gym every tuesday like tuesday was a lock wednesday might have been a golf day thursday's the cabin and Friday you're at the cabin. Hey, 13 years, dude. Which is incredible that you lasted 13 years. But like, do you think that that maybe played into it down the road is like not being able to keep up?

If my feet moved as fast as my brain moved. You would have been gathering. We wouldn't be able. We'd be playing right now. We wouldn't be able to do this podcast. But unfortunately, the old feet slowed down. The boots got a little heavy. I'm not blaming it on the training. I'm blaming it on genetics.

Yeah, there you go. That's what I say, too. I'm shaped like a pear because of my grandfather. But those years, like the first year you had 45 points, then seven straight, like mid-50s. That's pretty impressive and were you getting first power play time all those years um yeah for the most part okay new york we kind of we had a stretch where we had two units where it just kind of

but yeah for the most part i was getting solid power play time there's actually some discussion i'd like your opinion considering everyone we talked to says they could see you as a gm in the front office someday. Edmonton's power play last year broke all these records and they're, they're, they've already started off pretty decent. But when you say you had two units, some people say that they should try to have a second unit. And it's like the first unit, a minute 50. Like, do you agree in two units more if it's that good? Just let them play the whole two. I don't know. The big reason why is our power play struggle a little bit. So it was more hey let's go on them out and just see if we can get something to work and it kind of started to work a little bit um i think if you got big boys i think you let the big

boys run which just mentioned being a general manager would you run into billy garren how just you guys are neighbors i went out for breakfast and i got in with him i guess to now you're what do you call it shadowing him around yeah yeah Yeah. I'm kind of a floater this year with him. Just kind of going to follow him around. I'll do some trips down to Iowa so I get that silver spoon a little rusty. Wait till you see the subs after the games. Yeah. I'll start to get my foot in the door a little bit.

And, yeah, he's my neighbor. He walked by and said, hey, I'm interested. You got any spots for me? And he was, you know, generous enough to give me an opportunity. I'm, I'm really excited about it.

It's going to be a lot of fun. I've kind of already, you know, poked my head in here and there, and it's cool to see the other side of it. It's been a lot of fun for me so far. But step, if you,

if you talk to anybody who played with you, they would have said that they could envision you end up getting in a role like that down the road, down the road. You love to talk shop. You always like to talk shop. I know I chirped you about the gym, but you're always thinking the game and thinking ahead. Like what is it, what is it that you love so much about the game and why you want to do this after retiring? Well, maybe it's because my feet have slowed down so much. You know, it's, it's something that, you know, I always told guys when I play You know, it's something that, you know, I always told guys when I play with them,

I truly believe that I'll probably be better post-career than my career that I had. Go on over. Don't say hi. I'm warming up. All right, yeah, me too. I'll warm up in a second. He's talking to Eric Stahl, folks. They got a big money match. They got a big money match coming up here. He's made over $100 million.

That's a big dog right there. We figured it out that the three Stahl brothers made over a quarter of a billion dollars. Oh, fuck. They own Thunder Bay now. They could buy the whole city and the Cactus Club there. It's pretty sweet. So, yeah, I don't know.

The GM thing is I always thought that it would be something that I'd be good at. I think I can communicate with a lot of people. I tried to make an effort. If a posing GM walked by, I tried to make an effort to shake his hand and introduce myself and maybe ask him a quick question. Like,

Hey, what do you think about this? And just kind of, even, you know, the last few years in Carolina, I'd always, when Don would walk by,

I'd always just be like, Hey, what do you think about this? And I was on the PTO the one year. Why are you so fucking cheap? Yeah. I was on a PTO with one year and uh i had nate mckinnon just signed his big deal and i he came walking by the locker room and said hey don now that nate's done you want to tie me up because he had his all his salary was all uh like league minimum and it's all in signing bonuses i knew i was going to get league

minimum so but he so i always try to you know talk to those guys and not be worried about communicating with them because they're good dudes and i knew that getting in my foot in the door early is going to be better than waiting and then being like hey i need a job well the the big deal you signed with the rangers i i was reading it was basically the 11th hour right but right before arbitration. Was it one of those things like, I don't want to go in there and hear how shitty I am? Yeah. So I missed all training camp after my entry level to get my bridge deal. And so then I finished my two-year deal and we're going to get my big deal. And we had to go up to arbitration

and I was like, talk to my agent and there was no conversations. I was like, oh, God, here we go. And they got these packets that are like, our side's got like 175 pages. And their side's got 250 pages of why the number should be where it is. And we were just about to sit down in the room. And my agent and Gortz were like, let's go check quit. And they got it done on like a yellow notepaper. No way. So it was done. And the night before, they got to the number. And they got it done on like a yellow notepaper. No way. So it was done.

The night before they got to the number and then it was just no trades and signing bonuses. But the no trade didn't even work because I got traded and then I lost them. What was the deal? Six times six? Six times 6.5. That's a nice one, Steph.

What'd you do to celebrate? What'd you buy yourself? New cabin. Actually, you know what I did do? When I got traded from New York to Arizona, I made it like an additional on just taxes. So then I threw a big cash just on that one. When the trade happened there, were you pissed off?

Were you bummed out, like looking for new opportunities in a different place? What was your reaction when you got traded? The rumor was all there. Obviously, I was disappointed. New York was our home for seven years. I didn't know what to expect. It's such a weird thing. You get traded, you're emotional, you don't know what to think.

The GM calls and you're excited. The new GM calls and you're excited to start something new. It was a little bit of a culture shock after going seven years in the playoffs and then that first year in arizona we didn't win our first regulation game oh my god oh that was when you started first year i think it was 18 games you guys went wasn't it or maybe at least we won some games and shootouts in overtime but our first regulation win wasn't until like game 18. I think it might've been 11 games.

You guys hadn't won one and it was in Philly and you guys were up to nothing. And it's like, okay, finally we're going to get this done. And they pulled the goalie twice and scored with, with the net empty. And it went to OT buddy. I was, I had to be on the broadcast with heater and he threw it over to me.

And I'm like, I'm like, I just started, right. I didn't know how to kill time like that. I couldn't be critical the broadcast with Heater, and he threw it over to me, and I'm like, I just started, right? I didn't know how to kill time like that. I couldn't be critical, and I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck to say, Heater. And then you guys, did you assist on it to Goligoski in overtime? I did. Oh, you did? Okay.

I was Nashville, USA that year. It was like the first 20 games I was on the ice for like 15 goals against. I was like minus 20 to start the season. it was but we got it figured out down there we had a new coach and a bunch of new veterans and we kind of pieced it together and got it going and um i had a really good time in my three years in arizona that's for sure what was your favorite moment as a ranger like you had so i mean the hat trick obviously to open up but all right you had a list of like some of the like the Game 7 goal. Yeah, I mean, he wiped out two teams on his own.

Overtime game winner in Game 7 versus the Caps in 2015. Had the empty netter in Game 6 to eliminate Montreal in 2017. And then with Carolina last year, that unreal keep he had at the blue line set the down a stasty. Did you always have a knack for the big moment when you were a younger kid? I don't know. It's just such a fun time to play. Like, I think a lot of the guys nowadays, they get so worked up about, like,

oh, it's this game. I was just having fun. Like, it didn't feel like the extra pressure. So I don't know if it was – and maybe I was nervous, but it was more like, hey, what's the worst that happens if you make a mistake and it ends up – life moves on. But I didn't have that early on, and I think later on, as I kind of started getting more and more, I mean, I had a lot of those moments to start my career

with, you know, playing seven straight years in the playoffs in New York. So I think opportunity to help you relax the nerves and then it's easier to perform when you're not stressed out. Look, growing up, were you really good your whole life? Were you a late bloomer? Like, how did it go in terms of like

your youth hockey experience? Yeah, I'm going to surprise you here here i was slow when i was young everyone's always getting all these slow down i've always been slow so let's just put it into that one but um but yeah no i i just always my brain always just was able to keep me afloat and keep me above a lot of the, you know, steps I took. When I was at Shattuck, same thing. You know, hockey IQ was the one that kind of carried me all the way through. Never got asked to play at the national program or anything? I did, but I was at Shattuck.

And you stayed? Yeah, I stayed at Shattuck. Oh, that's cool. After my junior year, they asked, and I was like, I'm going to stay here. I like it was at Shattuck. And you stayed? I stayed at Shattuck. Oh, that's cool. After my junior year, they asked, and I was like, I'm going to stay here. I like it here at Shattuck. My team, we just won a national championship. I'd like to try to win another one. Not that common for a Minnesota kid to go to Wisconsin.

I mean, was that hard for you, or was it more just that program was headed in a different direction at the time? Minnesota just didn't have any spots. I mean, they didn't have any spots. Really? They didn't have any scholarships, and they were kind of full. This was like when a lot of kids were committing really young, and they still do. But Minnesota was full, and it was just kind of one of those things where Wisconsin was like, we're interested.

And I went down and visited, and I was like, yep, this is where I'll go. Grinelli reminded me of your 2010 World Junior performance. Would you have 14 points in that tournament? Yeah, it was a fun tournament. That was in Canada, too, which that's a nice one. Was that the John Carlson OT winner against Canada? Oh, that was sick. Yeah, it was a good tournament.

We had a good group of guys, and it was a ton of fun. Who were the other NHLers from Team USA on that team? Zucker. Oh, I just got a text on the t boys all right well we're doing we're doing a monthly segment you're gonna have to give our nhl yeah nhl commentary what you're seeing around the league we got a newly retired player that knows the game so you're coming back. I'm coming back. I'm not missing tee times. Step, who's the foursome? Stalzi, who else? And then two Edina members.

Okay. Some civilians. All right. Hey, maybe you and Stalzi in a sandbag or sometime. How about that one? I would love to do it with you guys. All right. Okay.

That's a deal. We'll talk to you next month, November. We're catching up more. Yeah. I like it. Thanks, guys. All right, Step. Take care, Step. Okay. That's a deal. We'll talk to you next month. November. We're catching up more. Yeah. I like it. Thanks guys. Take care. Thanks.

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If you don't have a flavor, give me the water. It's all great. Keeps you hydrated. Good stuff. doing late night recordings boom need me hydration after a chiclets cup boom hydration body armor does the trick for you it's available in stores nationwide so i don't know what's the body i'm a store on amazon get yours today huge thanks to darren for jumping on us man we hope to get him back again real soon unfortunately like what said before the interview we had a little bit of tea time coming up, so we'll have him back soon enough.

But speaking of the Rangers, man, they suffered a huge loss. Adam Fox is on long-term injury reserve. He was injured on a collision with Carolina's Sebastian Ajo. They also left Phillip Hedo for a little bit as well, but the big injury is Fox. Then Trouba kind of called out Ajo afterwards. He said, basically, I have to answer the bell. He didn't want to answer it.

But, Biz, I'll go to you on this one. Was this hit or collision something that Ajo even needed to answer for? Or was Trouba just kind of giving the talk or what? Listen, I know Rangers fans think I hate their guts, but I'm being dead serious on this. Ajo, one, is not that type of player. And if you watch the clip, you could see they don't see each other and they run into each other and if anything it was Fox's leg was out a little bit and it was just

an unfortunate accident and Rangers fans like listen like I never want to see a player injured especially one of Adam Fox's caliber like he's been off to an insane start uh he's one of the few defensemen in the league who can carry the play as a defenseman. He is a treat to watch night in, night out. Their power play is going to be that drastically affected by his absence. And,

but overall, no, it was not a dirty hit. And we talk about the culture of Toronto, mad, mad respect for not only Truba, but Lafreniere, Lafreniere. Fuck, I got to fuck up Trouba, but Lafreniere. Fuck, I just fucked up his name.

Help me out here. Yeah, Lafreniere. Lafreniere, who's been having a great season. He was emotionally invested. He was going nuts on the bench, barking it all. All of them wanted a piece of him. So very unfortunate accident and a very tough loss for the Rangers, who have been not only buzzing,

but one of the hottest power plays in the league. Yeah, that's a kind of perfect description. That's how I felt about it. More unfortunate than anything. If it was a different player, maybe, you're questioning a little bit more. Ajo, honest guy, works his bag off. It's just kind of a brutal accident, I feel like.

I'm kind of hearing like a grade two MCL sprain. So, you know, could have been a lot worse, right? He'll be back in a way, maybe, you know, getting healthy. As long as he's able to get back 100%, which he will, maybe in the end, if the Rangers are going on a long cup run, this absence kind of helps them because Fox will be that much more fresh. That's the bright way.

That's the good way of looking at it. You know, bad side, obviously, you just can't replace a guy like him. But I brought up that Braden Schneider before. So he'll get more minutes now. Maybe he gets some more power play time. Their D is still very deep. So I think the Rangers will be able to get through this,

whether it's a month, two months, I don't know. It just sucks we don't get to watch them like you said, Biz. So get healthy soon, Foxy. So some people – so I've done my ACLs. I've done my MCLs multiple times. I've had a grade one, grade two, as much as like a bad grade three, which bad grade three, you're usually out about six weeks, six to eight weeks. I would say a grade two, if you're taking it with precaution,

probably about a month's time. And that happens when the inside of the knee opens up a little bit and just stretches out. So it's a little loose after, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. And, and I think that that's partly as to why I eventually ended up tearing my ACL is because I'd done my left MCL probably three times to as bad as a bad grade three, where that's just a ligament where if it happens, it's going to be a little bit loose. And if you do it again, it's going to stay loose until you eventually have to get surgery on it. But for a grade two MCL, you don't have to get surgery.

It's just a healing time of, like I said, roughly, I would say the longest five weeks. The only thing is I never, I was lucky enough enough i never had a knee injury i mean i had paper mache ankles so i guess that speaks for itself but my knees i never had any knee injuries um it's just probably a little tough that i'm guessing he'd have to wear a knee brace when he comes back um maybe take him a little time to get used to that but like the good thing is he's not the greatest skater in the world it's all his his hockey IQ and his head fakes and his stick fakes. So I think he'll be back. He'll be back to the Adam Fox.

Everyone looks and has seen play and dominate. And the Rangers are going to be completely fine. They're a hell of a team. Well said, Whit Dogg. We mentioned earlier that we're going back to California. It's been about four and a half years since we were out there, heading back to the Golden State. Those Southern Cal teams have been on fire lately.

Here's one for you, another one, Biz. I love telling the stats to you. The NHL averages 5.7 new playoff teams over the last seven non-COVID seasons. And we're two weeks from Turkey Day, Thanksgiving in the U.S., and there are four teams that currently find themselves in playoff position that missed the playoffs last year. Detroit in the east, and in the west we have Vancouver, St. Louis and maybe the most surprising name on this list the Anaheim Ducks. Quack quack

they've been hot as hell they come out one and four tough start but they've won six in a row since. This is crazy too it was the Ducks yes Sunday's win the Ducks fifth third period comeback in just 11 games that's an absolutely crazy stat. McTavish has been on our roll. Zegers hasn't been doing much. What do you think is wrong with Zegers? Just kind of getting used to the new coach. What's your take on it? I think the lack of training camp definitely plays a factor into that.

I think that, well, it's actually a good thing if you're a Ducks fan because he's not going to continue like this. He's not going to finish the year with 20 points, I don't think. And so you look at when he picks it up, that only adds to their offense. I think the new coach, though, is probably pretty demanding on how you have to play, which is evident by their record and their comeback wins, which is also at the same time a little worrisome because you can't continue to do that you can't always be battling from behind but Zegers I think he'll get going I think his coach is probably demanding more puck protection not giving it up as easy not trying as many things at the offensive blue line so it's a little bit of a change right you didn't have training camp you dealt with all

the drama of trying to get signed and then now've got a new coach that is demanding a little bit more than prior. So all those things kind of added up together have created a slow start for him. I think he'll figure that out. But I like looking at the bright side of this team. And Mason McTavish, dude, this is an old-school hockey player. This guy is buzzing up and down the ice, hitting everything that moves. He's got great skill around the net. He's excellent. I mean, right now he's on pace for what, 80, maybe 90 points. So with his draft pedigree, he was picked high. This was expected at some point.

This is probably a little early for Ducks fans to see this dominance from him. But he's just a future captain, right? He's done it internationally, world juniors. He's done it in junior. He's now showing up. He's willing to fight. He's willing to hit. He gets in your face. Even his hair, it just looks old school.

Fucking caveman. That's the type of player you see now, and they have so much success. They're the unicorns, as Biz called them. They're disappearing. And he's rough and tough, and he have so much success, they're the unicorns, as Biz called. They're disappearing. And he's rough and tough, and he doesn't give a fuck, and he's there to play hard, and he's in your face. And because of a leader like that, and with him being a young guy, it's even more impressive. So that and the defense.

I mean, this Pavel Mityakov, he has it all. And he's a 10th overall pick in 2022. He can skate. He's got a cannon, tons of poise with the puck. And to hop right in, I mean, they're probably... That's what's happening right now. If you're talking to Pat Verbeek and you got his honest assessment, he's looking at McTavish maybe doing this next year or the year after. He's looking at Mityakov maybe two years doing this. And everything's happened a little earlier and you're seeing this success and like their goaltending hasn't even even been that incredible it's the comeback wins it's not giving up they haven't even had cologne until last game so it's just

I think credit also goes to Craig Greg Cronin who goes in there and from everything we've heard prior is a no nonsense no bullshit you're not going to do it. You're not going to play. And this goes around like for every team in the league. It's a tale as old as time. Ice time is all that matters to players. You want to get an effect. You want to get a difference. You want to get guys to buy in.

Take away ice time, dude. That's all that can be done. And whether it's a healthy scratch or whether it's sitting down for the third period, I don't think he has any problem, no matter who it is, sitting your ass on the bench. And when guys see that and they realize, if I'm not doing it the right way, I'm not going to play, that's the only thing that gets through to players. So he is actually demanding excellence. And while their starts haven't been great, they have this young group that's willing to not give in.

And they're coming back. And I don't know if that could continue, but as of right now, it's a really fun team to watch, too. I throw on their games last year, no chance. Boom, change the channel. Now, I want to see this young D-man. I want to see McTavish running someone over. It's Carlson, too.

Like I mentioned at the beginning, he's a future superstar and possibly a generational type player. With that size and speed and the division and his shot, it's like they have a lot of things coming up. They don't even have that D-man. Is it Zellweger? He's not playing. They got other top picks that aren't playing yet.

This is a team that in five years is probably going to be competing for a Stanley Cup, and the fact it's happening this quick is awesome for a fan base that's dealt with a few years of kind of miserable hockey. And this is without Kalorn, too, who is coming in to help with that championship pedigree as well. And it's just been an incredible story and a great breakdown by you, Whit. And I guess I'll start with McTavish, too, just to play cleanup. You said it.

His ability to want to go to the net and take punishment and live in that area as a younger player, you don't see that much. And there aren't many of these young guys coming in the league who have that ability to play and take that type of punishment around the net. I mean, there's only a handful of guys now. We always talk about Pavelski and certain guys who can live at the top of the crease and do that. I mean, he had a big one the other night.

It was to extend that six-game winning streak. Who did they come back against? Vegas on Sunday. It was Vegas. And that was their first regulation loss of the season. And they gave the Bruins their first loss. And another guy who's been a bit of a journeyman, and you guys know him best from his start in Boston,

is Vetrano. And he's a natural goal scorer, and it seems like he's found a great home there. And he's got nine on the season already. I think he's got a hat trick as well. He's been sniping. And the Leo Carlson thing, him coming in where they said they were going to play him one game off, one game on,

where it seems like the last couple, they haven't healthy scratched him. He's so good, and he's been dominant so early where they're fucking rolling them out so maybe you won't see that approach that they were considering taking early on just based on that sheer dominance and um i talk about that daryl belfry sometimes he's got that instagram channel where he does a great job of breaking down players games games. Leo Carlson, he loves playing that middle of the ice, and he can navigate it appropriately based on even how young his age is and where he's always in that right spot. I don't think he's necessarily that fast,

but he plays at a great pace in which he always seems to be in that right lane, whether he's being an option for his defenseman or even on the defensive side, being there to break up plays. So very impressed with the Leo Carlson early on. And you mentioned that young defenseman stepping up and playing the way he has. And,

and Troy Terry, another guy who just continues to get it done and a hidden gem out there out West. So as far as the Anaheim ducks are concerned, I don't know how long they can continue to sustain this with, I mean, that lineup they have and how young they are, but just so impressive off the hop to see what they're doing and buying into

their, their new coaches systems. It gives some serious excitement. I think I played in Anaheim. I should know. Is it the I-5 rivalry? Is that it? Like LA Anaheim,

like those games are for a long time, those were battles, and they were fun to watch. And you maybe get some more juice into that this season. And last thing I'll say about Anaheim, it's not that surprising considering, look who's on the back end. Look who's always on good teams. Radko Gudis. That's another guy that comes in, that's running people over, that's taking no shit, backing up teammates, and all of a sudden they've had a great start. So as you said, I don't know if this will continue, but buddy, if they keep this up and you're looking at, what is it? Like the 95 points, 96 points get you in the playoffs. They keep piling these things up

then at least in March, they're in the hunt if they don't go on a really bad skid. So it's just exciting having a team with no expectations start the year this solid. No doubt. Once again, well said, Whit. I got another one for you. October had 67 comeback wins out of 140 games.

So that's just on the 48% of games had a comeback tied with the 86-87 season for the most at that point in the season. It's crazy. Like Merle's the other night. Who was down 3-0 in one of his bets? I was like, Merle's, 30 years ago you counted as a loss. But nowadays, man, it's crazy. It's great.

I think it's when he had Buffalo over Philly and they lost 5-1. Next, LA Kings. Team just north of them. They've been raging too lately. Playing much better. Five wins the last six games. Six straight on the road. At least a point in all but two games.

I think Cam Talbot's one of the big stories out there. Struggled a little bit early, but 6-2-1 right now. 9-2-3 save percentage. 2.14 goals against. He's got a shutout. Started eight of the 11 games. How about Adrian Kempe? Doing what he usually does. Fiala only

has one goal, but he's got 12 points total. Biz, I know you've got a hat on for the Kings lately. What have you been seeing with this squad? This is no surprise to me. I knew this team was going to be good. I don't think it is to anyone. Yeah, their responsibility up the middle and then the complimentary wingers.

I mean, buddy, Kempe's been a stud for a few years now. I think he had 40 tucks last year. Fiala, I think he came back last year in playoffs injured, but other than that, he had an incredible year. He's a fucking all-star, right? So they got just incredible players up front. I love their top nine. I think they have an underrated decor

where they're so well coached and they play under structure where they just have these lunch pail guys back there other than Drew Doughty. And the goaltending, yeah, I guess I had to say it was a question mark coming in because Talbot maybe didn't have the best of seasons last year. But go back to two years ago

when he was playing with Minnesota before they picked up Flower, he was fucking stellar. And he's had a great career and great numbers up until then so it's good to see that he's got his confidence back another thing about like playing for a team like LA because they're so structured for a goalie you know where these shots are coming from it's very predictable for a goalie to get used to that and get in rhythm and in sync with that team I mean Copley came in last year and fucking did it so this is like I said no surprise the one guy that I will talk about though is Quinton Byfield he has been a force so far this

year he's been a forechecking machine and you're talking about a guy who came at a junior as a centerman so for him to get acclimated to that winger position you know has taken maybe a little bit of time but so far this year man he's fit in like a glove uh he's a four four checking machine and he's picked up the offense so they are all systems go right now they are still my fucking they are still my horse in the west and i couldn't be happier the way that they're making me look like a fucking genius. I look like a fucking genius picking this team with. No, you don't. I mean, everyone knew they were good.

You said they were good. What do you mean? You had the fucking Oilers ahead of them, you fucking moron. You had the fucking Oilers ahead of them. So did 99% of the people. So then everybody else, I'm a fucking genius then. You didn't have the head of the Oilers. I'm a fucking a fucking genius then. You didn't have the head of the Oilers. I'm a fucking genius for saying that.

You didn't have the head of the Oilers. You're the opposite of a genius. You're a fucking moron. What are you talking about? When did you pick them to finish ahead of the Oilers? Show me that. Show me that. Show me that clip.

Go get the fucking text to Merle's when we did our divisional breakdowns. He said, who do you have and what order? I'm a fucking genius. I'm looking this up. I do not think you had it. No, you're flustered. You're flustered. Just like your fucking Oilers and Woodcroft, you're flustered.

Yeah, you did have Kings winning the division. You don't want to admit that I'm a fucking hockey genius. Okay, let's see here. You had the Kings winning the division. Give me a double wrister right now. You had the Oilers ahead of the Knights. So what a fucking genius, dude. You had fucking Edmonton ahead of the Stanley Cup champs.

You're a regular old Stephen Hawking. I wasn't talking about the Golden Knights. I was talking about the Kings. Well, you're talking about how much of a genius you are. You had the fucking Oilers ahead of the Golden Knights. You had the Bruins missing the playoffs. We're not geniuses here. We're pundits and we're

both morons so i love you brought up by field i do feel like i was maybe a little bit hard on him which kind of goes back to my slavkovsky take that it's so early they're so young he's shown wow i figured it out now he's playing with studs too. Somehow, Anshay Kopitar isn't aging. This guy is continuing to dominate. He's older. He's not even that fast, but he's smart as shit. He's big and he plays the game the right way. Drew Doughty is a machine. Drew Doughty was told, all right, you mentioned this, right? Jake Muzzin said to him this summer, hey, I'm not seeing you dominate games the way you used to. Is that what you said?

Yeah, they were at a bar shooting the shit. They're really good friends. And that's basically what he said. You used to take games over back in the day. And that kind of gave him a little kick in the pants. And he's got four goals already. He started to concentrate more on that because he actually said he loves playing defense. He said sometimes if you shot a guy like McDavid down with no points, that's sometimes better than scoring a goal. So he's really focused on the D.

And he's reached another level. He looks incredible. And, dude, this is without Brant Clark even playing. This is without this future stud defenseman. He's in the minors. He's got seven points in nine games in Ontario. They don't even need him yet. That's how good they are.

I think once playoff time comes, you're going to see him in the lineup, and they're being smart. No need to rush it. Let him dominate one level before he comes up, but that's a future stud that they're going to have on the D side. That Matt Roy biz, I think you play with him, right? He's a solid player, dude. He's a fucking top four defenseman

that you know you're going to get. That's a guy like the Oilers. Jesus Christ, if they could get a defenseman like him. It's like they are a sound hockey team. I think Todd McClellan, dude, everywhere he's gone, man. He was on the bench with Babcock in Detroit. He went to San Jose. They were good.

He's now in L.A., and he's just got this team playing the same way every night. Dude, as a player, all you want to know is your role. These roles are defined. These roles, you know what you have to do every single night. Dude, as a player, all you want to know is your role. These roles are defined. These roles, you know what you have to do every single night. You know exactly what's expected of you. There's no questions and every single guy buys in. So this team's deep. The question mark was Copley and Talbot. I don't know, based on Talbot last year, can he keep this up? With the structure in front of him, possibly i i just think with without a guy like brant clark who's in the minors who will be there without arvidson a water bug he's not even playing

it's like this team you saw that they had two great series against la that i mean edmonton the past two years i i expect them to to get past the first round this year and and if their goal maybe these two goalies they can't win a cup but if somehow these guys catch lightning in a bottle if the Kings won the Stanley Cup I would not be surprised it's a hard team to play against and that's the only goal as a fan base is watching

a team that my team every single night if you're going to beat them it's going to be tough sledding and double wrister for Rob Blake and replenishing this team i mean they they had their cup runs he took over and uh you know it was it was an uphill battle but did they draft and develop like rock stars and then found the guys to put through trade around kopitar and doughty so they could go out as three-time stanley cup champions book it i'm a genius what's a

fucking moron. Keep the change. Yeah, it was a couple years early, but they were like 80-1 a couple years ago. A couple other notes on the Kings. Byfield's still only 21 years old, man. This kid's like still a pup out there. A horse. Dowdy leads the NHL with

26 minutes and 7 seconds per game. 7 seconds more than number 2. And he's 5 minutes and 6 seconds more than the next king on the roster. So, fucking, you know, he's up there. Still playing like a horse out there. Also, too, the Kings have only played one division game. A shootout loss to Vegas. So, they haven't even played all those division weaklings yet.

Three worst teams in the league right now, points-wise. 7 points for Calgary, 5 for Edmonton, 1 for San Jose. So, if they're still stinking, man, they can load up on points going down the line here. Next up, I just said San Jose, the Sharks. It's bad, man. It's bad. I think I could make this team. I could play for the San Jose Sharks and not look out of place right now.

They need a goalie? Yeah, nobody had them go in the playoffs, but it's been ugly after 11 games. It was already the worst start in franchise history. Now they're tied for the NHL record with the 11th straight loss to start the season. The 10th came to Vancouver, 10-1. The next night, 10-2 to Pittsburgh. That place is

I mean, there can't be more than 4,000 people in there. A couple people sent pitches. It's just bad right now. How much longer is it going to be this bad business? What if it's three years, four years? I mean, it's just fucking ugly. Did I hear a stat they haven't won a game since April Fool's? April 1st.

April 1st of last year. They haven't won a regular season game since last April. It's pathetic. I'll say this, though, man. They're doing it right. You might as well just get shit and be able to draft in the top two picks. I know it's not guaranteed, but they should...

I should guarantee you could be three. They should have 60 balls in that fucking thing for how bad they are right now. Right? They have six defensemen out there. R r.a thought they had goaltending until he mushed him you're the warthog and as far as guys up front i i feel bad for duclair having to go over there and and deal with this i mean hurdle he's got what six or seven years or he's got seven years after this left on his deal local would look

great in boston he'd be a perfect perfect how are you gonna get hurdle trade something picks you want picks they're loading up for the future you want that trade you want to do that deal i don't think it's that bad i think he signed eight times eight so he his million i think his cap hits only eight then he signed an eight times eight. So his – Eight million? I think his cap hits only eight. Didn't he sign an eight times eight? That's a high hit, dude. Not for a first-line center. I would consider him a first-line center.

But just overall, guys, I don't know what else to say about it. They're just – they're not good. The big deal selects could probably beat them. That's how bad they're playing right now. Yeah, it's just so tough. And I was on a bad team, a couple bad teams. yeah it's just so tough and i mean i was on a bad team couple bad teams um and it's it's just exhausting it just it just wears you down and going to the rink is i mean thank god this isn't in canada uh i mean at least it's a little easier for these guys to hide away

from the rink right it's just a different it's a different setup fan-wise. You're not running into that many people who recognize you, and you're just going in every day to work, man. You got no success to really build on. You got no success to look back on to feel good about yourself. And so it's like, I mean, guys, you lose an NHL game 6-1, the locker room after, it's a nightmare. Dude, you're losing 10-1, 10-2. That is like, I mean, it's been 50 years since a team gave up 10 goals two games in a row. 50 years. And I said

they had the chance to be a top five worst team of all time. I mean, they're looking at a rate of like being maybe one of the worst, if not the worst we've seen at least since i don't know the 70s or 80s it's just a depressing thing for a player a coaching staff and dave quinn i am openly friends with dave quinn this ain't on him and it's not it's like not even really on mike gria i mean you're doing it the right way. You're rebuilding. I think the owner's probably thinking, what the fuck is going on here? Apparently the owner is losing his mind right now. We have no, because like, you got no fans.

That's the worry. Like, we got no ticket sales. We got no merchandise being bought. We have a disaster financially. But if you look at like the future, at least, yeah, the problem is you can't even bank on getting the first overall pick. It's not a guarantee that's the scariest part so i just feel for the players i mean these guys are getting paid well but dude to be like failing over and over and in

fantastic fashion that is an exhausting thing to look at and i just remember i mean at least the weather's nice there in edmonton when we were so bad, it's like, holy fuck, it's minus 30 and we can't win a game. So I feel for the guys, it's not going to change. It's not going to get any better. Couture's out, but it's their defense. It's their goaltending. And I just, I see zero defense being played in their own zone, dude.

It's like a power play for the other team all game. I've never seen that in this league. Looks like six Klingbergs out there playing with their sticks upside down. Now, you said it, though. They're all getting paid handsomely. Is it Woody Harrelson? The meme where he's wiping his eyes with all the money? Is it Woody Harrelson?

Is that what I'm thinking of? I don't know that meme. I don't know. I know the thing you're talking about, but I can't see the face. Have either of you two been on a team that was really bad a lot, like was losing like this? Yes. Yeah, I just said I was.

All right. No, I know. I was going to get to it. So when you say it's a nightmare in the locker room, describe what's going on. Oh, it's miserable. You're dead silent. You finish the game. Everyone gets undressed. There it's miserable. You're dead silent. You finish the game.

Everyone gets undressed. There's no music. You are dead silent. Then in Edmonton, 20 reporters come in, and you got to answer all these questions, and you got to regurgitate the same bullshit and the same, we got to play together more. We got to figure out our power play.

It's Groundhog Day when the sun never comes out. It's zero, zero laughters happening. And at some point, you at least get with the guys. Like, you know, the night before a game on the road, at least, like, the game hasn't been played yet. Like, we got to play well tomorrow. But there's also a lot of jokes like, we're going to get smashed tomorrow.

We're playing Vegas in Vegas. We give up eight eight goals a game we score one goal a game we're gonna get throttled and over time it's just it's crushing to guys and then you also get into the fact of like any young guys they do see in the future like that isn't exactly how you want to learn to be an nhl player like you get accustomed to losing. That's a cancer right there. It's a disaster to try to go into your job every single day knowing that no matter what, you're going to fail. So it wears on you mentally and it wears on you physically. Ari, I played in Saginaw with the Spirit.

I think it was my first year there after we've been sold from North Bay and we were 500 after 10 games. We were five and five and then we finished the season with 10 wins. So it was miserable. I would say that there was probably about six or seven fights and practices that year. So the frustration just mounts and it's just yeah it makes for a miserable miserable experience and keep in mind we weren't wiping our eyes with money back then we were making 50 bucks a week so uh and eating eating soggy subs so not a good McDonald's gift certificates yeah yeah pretty much i guess my canadian tire money i guess mike greer met with the team today and said, like, this is beyond unacceptable. Like, I'm seeing things, like, that will not fly.

Guys won't be here, which some guys are probably like, please, God, get me out of here. Yeah, Hurdle's asking to get sent to the Barracuda. No escrow? Yeah. It's a shitty situation, though, because I don't think any of us have ever seen something like this to start anyway uh did we get confirmation hurdle making eight times eight uh it was 8.1 but yes oh look at me again nailing it hockey genius yeah woody harrelson meme uh yeah what you already said you already said with Bruins in 1965, last team to give up 10-plus goals in back-to-back games.

And this is from Big Head Hockey on Twitter. He's got a nice little account there. It was the fifth time in 30 years that a team has allowed two games with 10 or more goals. Numbers. But fucking they did it in 11 games. The other teams, it took all season for them to get either two or three, you know, fucking games with 10 goals scored.

They did it back to back in just 11 games, man. I feel like we're piling on them, but you know, these are some stats to indicate how bad the numbers have your balls in a vice right now. You just said made zero. No sense.

All right. So in the last 30 years, what five teams have lost. I'm sorry. Yeah. Two games. Two games. This is incredible.

This is unbelievable. No. All right. Just shut up. Just shut up. No, you're saying this for the San Jose Sharks. Just shout out the San Jose Sharks goaltenders right now.

Kacking it in a blackwood. Love it. I want to hear this stat. I don't care how long it takes. Five times in the last 30 years, five teams have given up 10 or more goals in two games in the season. At least two games in the season. Anaheim just did it twice, back-to-back.

San Jose! No! Try again. San Jose. No! Try again. San Jose. So do you get it now, basically? No. Like, no?

I feel like I have a brain tumor after listening to your fucking numbers. Okay, four other teams have lost games where they gave up 10 goals twice during the season, okay? It took the whole season for them to lose either two or three times. One team did it three times. Anaheim did it twice in the first 11 games of the season back-to-back. Anaheim! He said fucking Anaheim again! This is unbelievable!

Restart it! Restart it and fucking say it again! Love it! Oh my God. All right, should we breathe like the putting experience before you do this one? Yeah, that helped. I don't know what movie I can do that nobody saw so I can make another weird reference. Nobody knew that fucking movie, too.

I don't think we can move on unless he gets it. No. No. Okay. Another five-hour episode. Another five-hour episode. Teams in the last 30 years to allow 10 goals against an opponent. You got me all fucked up, Whit. No, no, no. You got yourself fucked up.

Because this was before. Let's do it again, guys. This is literally Herb Brooks in Miracle after they tied Norway again. Herb Brooks in Miracle after they tied Norway again. Fifth time in 30 years a team has allowed 10 plus goals in two or more

games. San Jose Sharks did it within 11 games in the season and they did it back to back. All the other teams did it like spaced out over the whole season where they let up 10 plus goals. I feel like I just watched it. I watched the, that was the ending of Braveheart.

I just watched the final battle scene. Fucking Rudy. I love it. All right. The year of the hog, buddy, providing all the entertainment. I fucking love it. Yep.

Minus 43 goal differential is the NHL worst ever through 11 games in the season. That's tough. We're beating them up enough. They do get a lot of money coming off this next season, so hopefully they can get some pre-agents out there. We'll see what happens with the old Sharks. Witt, you got –

Butcher Gruss had a little trade-off on Twitter last week. Did you read it yet? Yeah, I read it. I'm not trading Leon. That would immediately mean Conor's like, I'm out of here. And I didn't hate the idea. I love Portra. I don't like Allmark.

The trade wasn't enough for me. But the Edmonton Oilers right now, guys, are beyond a fucking disaster. I mean, this is something that no one, not even a hockey genius like Biz, saw coming. This is something that is so beyond the realm of possibilities before this season started. If you're somebody out there who have always said they're a two-man team, they'll never win a Stanley Cup,

I'll give you that, but nobody saw this. And I hate to do it, and there's a bunch of different things I'll get into. The goaltending, you guys, I don't care what they do with their defensive zone structure, getting McDavid and Leon going again, figuring out what they need to do five on five, no matter what, until they get a goalie, dude, they're done. They have no chance. The game's Saturday against Nashville. Until they get a goalie, dude, they're done. They have no chance. The game Saturday against Nashville.

Novak has a breakaway. I need a save, Campbell. Nope. Their save percentage. We just heard R.A. mumble through the most insane defensive statistics in the history of hockey. The Edmonton Oilers goalies are worse than the San Jose Sharks. They have a worse save percentage than the San Jose Sharks.

We have the 32nd out of 32 teams save percentage in the NHL. I don't care what you do, who you have, you will not win games. And here's the thing. Stuart Skinner, I think, has a bright future. He's young. He's a second-year player. He should be playing as the thing. Stuart Skinner, I think, has a bright future. He's young. He's a second-year player. He should be playing as the backup.

He should be learning the NHL, learning how you need to compete in the NHL to be a successful goalie as a backup, starting 20 to 30 games a year. Okay? They don't have another guy. Campbell is a disaster. I feel bad.

This is the worst part of the job is calling guys out. He's horrible. This signing has not worked out the job is calling guys out. He's horrible. This signing has not worked out. You can get into Ken Holland at another moment. This signing is a disaster. Their goaltending gives them no chance. And I'm not making excuses for the other parts of the team, okay? Because right now, no matter how many goals they score, they're going to lose.

That's just a fact. And they can't score. On to Connor and Leon. I don't really understand what's going on. If you told me Leon would go eight games without a goal, I'd say you're smoking crack. If you told me Connor would have five games without a goal, I'd say you're hanging with R.A. It's a disaster. And even before Connor McDavid got hurt, he didn't look like himself.

I don't think I'm speaking out of turn here. If you ask other Oilers fans, just something's a little bit off. The puck handling, the speed burst, even Biz, you said watching. It's just it's not the same Connor McDavid. And now maybe the injury has something to do with it at this point. But even beforehand, and listen, before the season, Woodcroft decided to change the defensive zone structure.

They, I guess they looked at the team. To what? Not play any? I don't, well, now they're back to a hybrid of like zone and man-on-man. Before the season, they tried to go completely zone. He switched it back before the Heritage Classic to a hybrid system,

and it looked good that game i thought we were ready to what like an indica sativa hybrid like what kind of hybrid we talking here hybrid of man-to-man and zone oh that's exactly what we're talking about here as i just said so that doesn't work either when the goalies don't save the puck. They have guys, Ryan McLeod. He's done nothing. Absolutely nothing. He's fast as shit. He skates around. He doesn't do anything. Okay. They got a decor that is a nightmare. They got Deharnais. You're the sixth defenseman. Apparently Manson loves him. He plays a decent amount. You're the sixth defenseman. Your job is to not get scored on, to be solid defensively, be good on the PK. You can't be trying to make plays with the puck

that end up directly in the back of your net. You can go out there every single shift and be solid defensively and flick the puck off the glass out of the zone and there'll be no complaints from anyone. Yeah, the occasional fan will say, oh, he's never going tape to tape. Well, if he's battling defensively and he's not giving up scoring chances, that's fine. That's your job. You're the sixth defenseman. Nope, he's turning over.

They got Cody Cece, peewee hockey. Do not pinch without the third man high behind you. Nope, I'm going to pinch up here. It is literally a comedy of errors every single time you watch them play. They have no clue how to play defense. Every game, I'm telling you, Biz, I watch every Oilers game. Tonight they're playing Vancouver, Monday night.

Every single game, they give up, I swear to God, 15 grade A chances off the rush. Like three on threes where the forward's back, somehow, boom, wide open shot in the slot. Somehow, puck to the net, bang at home or rebound. It's infuriating. It's like watching young kids just skate around without any clue what to do. And when your power play is like basically your savior last year and it's still solid but not winning you games because you can't get a save, it all adds up to a disaster. And when I said before at the beginning of this struggle,

it's okay, they're going to get out of this, they're going to make the playoffs. I don't know if they're going to make the playoffs now. I mean, dude, in the next 10 games, if they go 3-7, dude, they're done. They're done. They have no chance. This should be a better

help ad. We have to pay each one of our listeners 50 bucks to listen to you vent. You get to Woodcroft. Are they your therapists at this point, or what's going on here? Woodcroft has the second most wins. I think that's correct.

Second most wins in the NHL since he became head coach going into this season. Well, dude, I don't know what you're doing now, but it isn't working. So this is like there's not one person to blame. The goaltending for me is easily the biggest problem. By the way, they got this kid, Rodrigue. Rodrigue, I think it's Olivier Rodrigue. He was a pretty high second-round pick. He's lighting up the AHL.

Bring him up. Send Kemble down. Send Supi down. It's not working. Try something else. If you can't make a trade, I don't know how they're going to make a trade. Maybe you want to try to get Markstrom? think you think that calgary's gonna trade markstrom what i'm just trying to like i don't know goalies out there like what can you get because right now

you have the 32nd you have the worst save percentage in the nhl your goalie in the ahl has the number one save percentage in that league. Switch it up. Dude, try something. So obviously it's way too early for the Woodcroft situation. Just like I said about DJ Smith. But let me ask you this though. If they lose to Vancouver

for the third time early in this season tonight, we're recording on Monday night, you better believe I'm going gonna have my ass glued to the couch for that san jose game on thursday i'm saying this right now clip this mark this edmonton oiler fans if you disagree with me fuck you if they lose to the san jose sharks i'm done sell the team no no no no no. Move him to Houston. I'm not a fan anymore. Is that a quitter?

What? Yeah, yeah, guys. I'm telling you right now. I became an Oilers fan. I got traded to Edmonton. I was horrible there. I was actually sick there for 33 games. I was unbelievable.

I was feeling it. Best hockey of my life. My ankle gave out for the 15th time. Okay? I then got tortured by fans, which I deserved. I was brutal. I was making a lot of money. The team sucked. But when I left there, I said, you know what?

That fucking city lives for hockey. They live for it. They had the championships back in the day. All they want is a winner again. And I appreciated the passion for hockey. I appreciated the fan base. While sometimes being a little out of control to guys playing bad, hey, that's business, buddy.

That's Canada. You want to throw jerseys on the ice? It's your money. Go right ahead. And I left there, and as most people would say, wow, you were tortured there. They hated you. You must hate the place.

Nope. I respect that fan base, and I respect that city. And that's why I hopped on board, and I hopped on with one of the greatest players we've ever seen, and I hopped on with Leon sniping wherever he went all over the ice. I gave a lot to become a fan of that team. I got fucking 9.30 Eastern starts, and I'm up in the morning at 6.30 with my kids,

and I'm grinding out every game. If they lose to the San Jose Sharks, I'm done. That's it. Sorry guys. Is that a quitter? You're lucky I was even a fan to begin with. Will you burn your jersey? No, I'm not a burn jersey guy. You're a classy guy. But I am no longer an Edmonton Oilers fan

if they lose to the San Jose Sharks. My only solution would be the same in which Commodore talks about all the time. You need to send in a fixer. I recommend RA. The boys need a night on the town. They need to get absolutely obliterated together. Obliterated?

Obliterated? How do you say that? Obliterated. Obliterated. Shut the fuck up. And they just, that's how they're going to turn it around. There's nothing else but an alcohol reset. And we should probably send them a case of pink winnie

to get the job done. So I think enough Oilers talk. Playing guilty. I think enough Oilers talk, and I wish them all the best tonight against Rick Talk. It's Vancouver Canucks. One last thing here. The trade proposal from Bucciaross was trade Dreisaitl in Vogel

for last year's Vesna winner, which was Olmach Mark DeBrusque, Patra Lysol in a 2026 first round. Yeah. I don't blame you for saying no to that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to give that up. Oh,

you wouldn't, you wouldn't give it up if you were the Bruins. I don't, I mean, as good as dry settle is, man, I don't know, man,

that's, that's fucking great goalie. You got to sway. I don't know. Yeah. You can swing out goalie. You got Swayman, dude. Yeah, you can swing out. I think if you're a Bruins fan and you can get Leon re-signed, I think you're doing that. Leon and Pasta playing together would be incredible.

Incredible trade proposal by Butcher Gross. He's good at those. Still in my honeymoon period with Pacha, so I don't want to fucking trade him yet. All right, we got some good stuff we can talk about finally here. A little good, bad, and ugly. Congratulations to Nashville's Ryan O'Reilly. Played in his 1,000th game last week in Vancouver.

He's in his 15th season. He had six in Colorado, three in Buffalo, close to five in St. Louis, where he won the Cup and the Connors Mike Toronto for a blip before signing on Nashville. So congrats to Ryan O'Reilly. Great guy, great player. Also, congrats to Paul Stastny. He retired after a 17-year NHL career with the Avalanche, Blues, Jets,

Golden Knights, and Hurricanes. Seemed to be a really well-liked guy. Everybody who talks about this guy says he's the salt of the earth. Best guy ever. Funny as shit. Awesome teammate. Great player. I remember him in college.

Lit it up. He was maybe the last NHL player with a wooden stick I think too wow uh yeah he was second round pick back in 05 played 1263 regular season and playoff games over a 17 year career so congrats to Paulie Walnuts on a hell of a career uh oh there's another wild one the Coyotes had a pair of uh Gordie Howe hat tricks last Monday with Liam O'Brien and Jack McBain each hit the trifecta. It's the first time that happened. Two guys

having a Gordie Howe in the same game in over 35 years. The last time Peter Taglianetti and Andrew McBain Jack's dad. Just insane stat. That's an insane fucking stat. Are you kidding me? No. His old man did it. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Insane. And you know what team he was on when man did it. Yeah, that's. Holy shit. Yeah. Insane.

And what you know, a team he was on when he did it. I do not. All right. The same franchise his son plays for, but they were the Winnipeg Jets back then. So pretty well placed for the same franchise. I mean, that's the shit you can't make up. All right. Read that shark stat again.

Hold on. Nancy, cancel my 2 o'clock. I'll be a minute here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nancy's my secretary that I floor out. I'm kidding, honey. Dorian should have hired her. How you doing?

Let's see. Oh, your boy Sid, 1,200th game the other night. I need a quick sip. Cottonmouth. 1,200th game for Sidney Crosby, the first Penguin to do so. He had an assist in his game. The 10th active player to hit that number. Oh, here's another one. All right. When 18 players have averaged a point

per game when appearing in their 1200th game, Crosby is fourth all time on that list. Gretzky averaged 2.12 points per game. Marcel Dion, 1.37. Phyllis Bezito, 1.27. Crosby behind him, John, 1.37. Phyllis Bozzito, 1.27. Crosby behind him, 1.26. Isman, fifth, 1.25. Tell me that fucking Crosby doesn't belong on the Mount Rushmore after hearing that. In the modern-day NHL, at his age, still doing what he's doing,

three Stanley Cups, all the hardware, this guy is a fucking sheen. Top five, Easily. I would put, would you put him and Stevie Y neck and neck? Oh, he's above Stevie Y. Really? Okay. All right.

Stevie's not coming off the pod. And I shouldn't have said it so like matter of fact, but I think like the game winning goal, the Olympics. Now Stevie won in 0-2 in Salt Lake City, I believe. But like scoring the game-winner, the fact that he came in as the next one and lived. He actually— Surpassed? You think he surpassed?

He surpassed the expectations, legit. Think of those expectations and remember the commentary of him coming in. And then fucking whatever it is, 20 years later, he actually was better than everyone said. The fact that he beat those expectations and what he's done. And in the end, Ovi's going to break the all-time goal record. And Sid is Sid. And we got to play with them, against them, and watch it. And it's been absolutely glorious to see. And he's still at a point per game this season,

even though the Penguins stink. And you know what's psychotic? Is I guarantee he's going to retire and he's going to do the same thing Stevie Y is doing. He's going to become a general manager and he's going to win cups doing that. The guy is a hockey genius just like me. And the same game was also Eric Carlson's return to San Jose.

While he was there, he led the team in goals, points, and assists. He got an assist in this game as well, a minute and 30 in. Who didn't? They scored 10. I know. Hold on. This is the one I've been waiting for. He's the fourth Penguins defenseman in the past 20 years to begin his tenure

with the club with the seven-plus points for the first 10 games, joining Rick Jackman, Paul Martin, and Ryan Whitney. Low it, Doug. Making some stats. tenure with the club with the seven plus points through the first 10 games joining rick jackman paul martin and ryan whitney low it dog making some stats good thanks guys thanks for throwing that one out there all right i had a hot start and not butchering absolutely moving over to the bad biz johnny hockey benched by pascal vincent saturday for the final 1607 of the third period he said i'm coaching a team the guys who are going are going to play. When the game starts, it's not about your name. It's about what's on the front of your jersey and who we believe is going to give us a chance to win.

It doesn't matter who you are. It's about the Blue Jackets. And I didn't like his game. Hushwords from the coach. Well, he's making enough money where he can probably afford to buy the team. So if I'm Vincent, you better be careful. He could probably afford to buy the team so if i'm vincent i better be careful he better because he could probably afford to buy the whole organization but uh on a serious note uh yeah it's been a very

underwhelming start for the columbus blue jackets and uh yeah i don't uh i don't watch them and i don't really give a fuck i think that it's a good thing um to kind of show the rest of the team it doesn't matter i mean i think that there's some of this to kind of show the rest of the team. It doesn't matter. I mean, I think that there's some of this in other cities, like I mentioned, like fucking sit them down. I don't care who you are. If you're not doing it. I mean, they sent Kent Johnson to the minors, right? That's a statement right there.

He benches Goudreau for the third period. Like that's accountability. And it could backfire, right? If Johnny's like, fuck you, and all of a sudden you lose the room, who knows how this goes. But you'd think he's a proud player. He'll show up next game. And if he does show up and plays the way he's supposed to,

all of a sudden message is given, message received. And it could possibly be a good thing for other guys to say, hey, if he's benching him, he's going to bench my ass too. Yeah, 11.05 of ice time. It's the second lowest of his 693-game career. No shots on goal, one shot attempt. Then the third period, there were two power plays in a pulled goal. He didn't get out there.

That's sending a message, I would say. Freddie Anderson, he's going to be out of action for a little stretch here. He had a blood clotting issue that needed to be addressed from the team. It's unknown how long he will be out. So the team signed Jaroslav Halak to a free agent tryout. And Peter Kochkikov, he's exempt from waivers, so they're probably going to keep him down on the minors and keep Anthony Rodger up, assuming Halak sticks around for a while. In Washington Center, Nicholas Backstrom,

he's going to be stepping away from the game to focus on his health and figure out what's next for him. He's been with the Caps for his entire 17-year career, 1,244 regular season and playoff games. Of course, the Stanley Cup a couple years ago, and he had that hip smoothing surgery. You said that's a tough one for some guys. It's the recovery.

No one's ever come back from that and been the same again. It's just Jovanovsky had it and couldn't really go after a while. And I think the same thing for Backstrom at this point. So it's shitty to think. I mean, Biz said he was going to light it up this year. So I guess the genius was wrong on that one. But in the end, he gave a valiant effort, right? The guy worked his bag off

to come back from something like that. And once your brain's telling your body what to do and it's just not happening anymore, it's a shitty feeling. So I give him credit, but it just couldn't get the wheels going anymore. Yeah, it's getting old socks, man. A couple quick sussies here. Charlie McAvoy got four-game suspension for a hit to the head of Oliver Ekman-Larsen versus the Panthers last week.

I don't know, Tough, tough play. Definitely deserved a suspension. I don't know. Four was probably in line with what they gave. What's his name the week before? Who got the four the week before? Brain farting. Anderson.

For defense and Ross was Anderson. Yeah, he appealed. They didn't take any games off. I assume that's probably going to happen with McAvoy and also Andrew Mangiapane. He got a one-game suspension for a cross-checking McKenna on Seattle. All right, boys. We're going to send it over to

Trunk Fan right about now. This guy's great Twitter follow, business wizard, tech wizard, all that good stuff. Enjoy, Trunk Fan. Yeah, if you're wondering who it is, he came on a year ago. It was excellent, and we wanted to have him back on. This is a great conversation that isn't really hockey-related,

but I think if you give it a chance, you'll enjoy it. He's got some amazing knowledge on all these different subjects, a fun guy to talk to. And so check it out right now and follow him on Twitter. All right, before we go any further, here's a few words from our friends over at Game Time. You shouldn't have to worry about when you're buying your tickets to your next... Sorry, I don't have my fucking glasses dude i'm fucking

i'm trying to blow the fucking thing up so it's not too big i do it five four three two one all right folks before we go any further here's a few words from our friends at game time you shouldn't have to worry when you're buying tickets to your next big event All right, folks, before we go any further, here's a few words from our friends at Game Time. You shouldn't have to worry when you're buying tickets to your next big event. Game Time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all the sports, music, comedy, and theater events near you. I've been going to shows, games forever, man.

Dave Chappelle just across the way the other night. Boom, Game Time hooked it up with tickets. Red Sox all summer, boom, hooked it up. Bruins started up. Celtooked it up with tickets. Red Sox all summer. Boom. Hooked it up. Bruins started up. Celtics. Anything in this area, game time takes care of you. Boston always has concerts going on. Always good stuff. That's why we use game time all the time. They have

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so you know you're getting a great deal without hidden fees. Buy tickets in seconds with two taps. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use code CHICKLETS for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code CHICKLETS for $20 off your first purchase. Download GameTime today. Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. Well, it's nice to have this gentleman back for his second appearance on the show. You've probably seen him on Twitter with an informative thread

about business, tech, entertainment, or most likely AI. And he's here today to break down a few things for us dummies. It's great to welcome back to the Spitting Chickens podcast, Trunk Finn. How you been, buddy? What's new? I'm very good. Thank you for having me back, guys. Listeners, thanks for having me again. As I was sharing with the guys just before we started and hopped on, it's been almost exactly a year. It was November 15th, 2022, when we recorded that episode about FTX and SPF. And what I will say has kind of bookended almost like cinematically was

he was found guilty, Sam Bankman freed as, uh, as anybody watching business media has probably seen over the past week, uh, seven charges, uh, related to fraud with investors, uh, lenders and customers. But here's the crazy thing. When I came on last year and I went on, like I took, I had five Red Bulls before I hopped on and just we know, we know, like, thank you for letting me rant. And I'm starting this with a rant. But the reason I'm doing this is because when they found him guilty,

it was a year to the date of an article that was written by a crypto publication called Coindesk that basically blew up the entire operation. So it's very cinematic there. And then we were kind of bookending it nicely. Yeah, but Trang, but the guy who ended up spilling the beans or starting the quote-unquote rumors hasn't his crypto company

also went bankrupt in the meantime yeah you're referring to cz on binance yeah he has also been uh under investigation by the u.s government uh related to uh not quite exactly similar things uh but he uh cz uh was actually a chinese canadian cat at one time he claimed he was as rich as jeff bezos and elon musk on paper this was when like bitcoin was at its peak peak and i know i remember last time talking i know biz you i know you got a couple btc just given to you with a uh given uh randomly on some uh things i don't even know if you look at it you mentioned that you had been given like one buddy i have three thousand dollars in ftx that we won through an ncaa final four appearance by a dark horse that we picked i want sbf i want them to get the electric chair i want my fuck i want my thirty three hundred dollars back these bitcoin

bros can't be fucking trusted and that's why we got you on buddy okay i i wait i saw that you were teeing up a question i wanted to be uh before going another rant here related to kind of what biz said about the the sentencing yeah well sbf i mean what an absolute goon but my question is so if people don't know michael lewis is a very famous author he wrote moneyball he wrote the blinds the book about the blind side the michael or story which ended up i If people don't know, Michael Lewis is a very famous author. He wrote Moneyball. He wrote The Blinds, the book about the blind side, the Michael Orr story, which ended up, I don't know what happened with that. He wrote something else already. What's his Liar's Poker? He's written a lot of pretty amazing books. And he was actually given full access to Sam Bankman

Friedman or whatever his name is a while ago before any of this went down. And his book about the entire process, which he saw firsthand, has just come out. And I saw he gave an interview with 60 Minutes where he actually said that SPF's like a misunderstood guy, which got people in an uproar. So what is going on with that book? Have you had a chance to get a copy of it

in terms of Michael Lewis, like almost defending him in a way? It's actually quite sad in the business writing community because Michael Lewis was like the Michael Jordan of writing. Yeah. Business writing. All those books you mentioned, Liar's Poker, The Big Short, which had that incredible film of Steve Carell. Love that movie. The 2008 financial crisis. film of Steve Carell. Love that movie. The 2008 Financial Crisis. No one was better than Michael Lewis at taking complex financial shenanigans and making it accessible. And you mentioned

something, The Other Side, which is a very relevant story because that book was about two things. It was about a white family taking in a black football player and helping him graduate, go to the NFL. And that came about a month ago before Michael Lewis's new book about SBF came out. Michael sued the family to basically say, hey, like the way that that adopting was set up, conservatorship, I didn't have rights to any of these films. I haven't seen a dollar. And what it later basically came out was that some people knew this, but it really blew up when Michael sued the family

that was written about on the other side. Michael Lewis is very close to that family. So that's relevant here because he has a history now of writing these books that become extremely popular where his relationship with the subjects might be a little bit you know yeah there's some sketchiness there you think he's banging sbf that guy makes me like gable everybody was fucking everybody anyway in that whole thing so this isn't that far-fetched i will tell you what's funny because he spent when sbf was under

house arrest as you guys might remember, shortly when we spoke last year, November 2022, he was allowed to be in house arrest at his parents' place near Stanford in California. And Michael Lewis spent hundreds of hours with him like inside the house, right? And I'll say two things. Wits framing is exactly what the media, a lot of people I respect the media are saying there's like man michael lewis like burnt like a 30-year reputation right you know that famous saying is like it takes a lifetime to create reputation but then one day to ruin it that's kind of what he did and i i don't i don't fully understand it the the only thing i can uh frame it

with him is that all of his characters and all the books we talked about, he does characters that are typically the underdog, right? Like take the big short. It was basically some, there's like an autistic hedge fund manager that was taking on Goldman Sachs, right? Like that was a framing of it. And then the Moneyball. Brad Pitt and Moneyball. Yeah, exactly. It was about Billy Bean with the small market MLB team that outsmarted the Yankees or outsmarted the big money teams, right? So the problem with SBF was that

this was one of the first times where he wasn't the underdog. Like when he started writing this story, SBF was on paper worth like $10 billion, right? And was considered the greatest entrepreneur of his generation. So I think Michael Lewis, A, probably was way too close to SBF, but he also isn't used to writing this type of story. I think this SBF story was like kind of outside of the purview of this underdog thing.

And he kind of basically wanted to make him look like an underdog when the reality was this guy had everything, went to MIT, both his parents are Stanford professors, was given all the money by every VC in the world. It looks like nobody asked any questions, right? So in terms of being convicted and now we wait for sentencing, like, could you give a guess on what you think happens? And like, I mean, are other people that were involved with him going down? I know his smoke show girlfriend actually dropped a dime on him. So I don't know.

I don't really know like, will other people take the fall or is this all going to go down on this guy? Well, the fact that he went to trial was already kind of like, it was so SBF of him to go to trial, right? Because you go to trial, first? Because you go to trial. First of all, that court in the New York, Southern District of New York, they have a 98% conviction rate.

Which means if you're going to, they're taking you to trial to win, right? They're not going to go to trial for you to beat them, right? That's not the purpose. Like they're only going to go if they have a very high probability of winning. So people are just like, man, like this guy, there's something about him. And his entire upbringing or his kind of the mythology around him as FTX was blowing up. As we discussed last year, this time, FTX became on paper this $40 billion crypto exchange. It renamed Miami's Heats Arena.

Steph Curry, Tom Brady, giselle all got fat sponsorship deals right so do you think that's what caused the divorce yeah i mean i i've seen some pretty gnarly memes uh suggesting as much but uh i think um to to your question is uh it's like why would he even why would he even go to trial? It's just his whole personality was about risk-taking, right? So he's like, okay, if there's like a 0.5% chance I can win this instead of going to prison, or like just take a plea deal. Take 20 years, right?

He's like, fuck it. I'm not going to take the plea deal. I'm going to go with the one. Wait a minute. You think with one of the biggest fraud cases probably in the history of the planet i don't know where it ranks as far as money that they would have probably given him a 20-year plea deal if he would have just confessed to everything and and and opened up about how it all went down well actually to

answer your question uh do you guys remember he took the stand a couple of days ago you probably saw memes of like the sketch artist. They made him look like a man missile. They paid him a lot. He looked like Tom Brady in that. He looked like Tom Brady. Is Tom Brady SPF? Is that what's going on?

No, it's all coming out. But the thing about him taking the stand though is like, you see this all the time in like movies and just like any illegal things like don't take the stand right because the prosecutor will just destroy you they will just destroy you because they have all this evidence that he was you know openly sharing with the world but uh no specifically about him taking the stand and would they've offered a plea deal biz probably not and the reason they probably wouldn't even offer to plea deal was because or if they did it would have been

a really tough plea deal was because he had the two people flip on him right cto uh ex-girlfriend those took the plea deal like those people took the plea deal and like we're ready to snitch on him everybody turned on him and even it was one of this like people close to him told them like not to do any type of media when this originally broke but he refused and it probably speaks a lot to his ego and And on top of that, when people were asked in the midst of the trial about like his personality and his persona, I guess he said to one of the people that was, was on trial that he thought at the point when his mid twenties, that he had a 5% chance of becoming president of the United States of America. So the level of delusion that

this guy has is pretty high. And then in the midst of the trial for a guy who's basically a genius and has an insane memory and is known for his memory, he said 120 times, I don't recall to answers to questions. One of them being the year before it's like, well, you were on a private plane going to the Superbowl with these people, and then he couldn't seem to remember. So he's obviously a liabetic and didn't do himself any favors by doing these interviews when this all came about and he got arrested. Well, exactly. As the prosecutors, which is every time he said, I don't recall, they're like, okay, well, we do recall because you literally said this on this day and tweeted about it. But to your question, the uh, uh, the years

is, uh, uh, what I'm, this is, here's a big twist. Actually, when I spoke to you guys last year, uh, it looked like at that, that point in time that the, uh, that the people that the customers that got their money taken would get maybe 10 to 15 cents on the dollar. Okay. Something insane has happened in the past year. So SBF stole some of this money and was making venture capital investments in the AI space. So if you guys, I know you've been following just like even anyone that has seen anything about artificial intelligence over the past 12 months knows that that is like the new hottest sector right one of his bets might make the uh customer deposits completely whole or 89 no way it's insane it's this company called anthropic so you might have seen that if you google anthropic google so funny enough if you google it google invested just last week at $2 billion.

Amazon has agreed to invest up to $4 billion. This company is a competitor to OpenAI. So this won't actually change him going to jail. But I think what it says is that the judge, because he has until March to make the sentencing decision, on the table by the letter of the law right now is I think 110 years if they run a really concurrent, that's just max, right? But like people do sentencing guidelines and things that you have to take into consideration is like repeat offender, was this violent? Does he have an opportunity at any point in his life to make a positive contribution, right? Versus like say

Bernie Madoff. Bernie Madoff was in his, I think, late 60s when he ripped off, ran the biggest Ponzi scheme ever, I think over a hundred billion dollars at one point um they were just like well this guy honestly probably gonna die in prison anyways right and he did die in prison whereas SBF is uh I mean I've heard some stuff and I don't want to paint him in like a sympathetic light because I think he was a straight up criminal and did some really criminal shit as his jury appears, have chosen to decide. But I have heard him when they asked him about what is it like, the thought of being life in prison. He's reflective about it.

He's like, is there some world where I can make this better? So I might, I have no, I'm not a legal person. I'd imagine 20, 30 years at a minimum is what he'll get. So he'll still come out at like 50. So is there any part of you, not to put you on the spot, but it's been pretty open in terms of him making enormous, enormous donations to politicians. And for me, is it not crazy to think that those politicians

should almost have to pay the money back to maybe victims of the entire ftx scam is that too unrealistic to think or pelosi's already spent it on ice cream or stocks right um no i i think it is a hundred percent uh a valid question and people are raising it okay i think what happens with that though becomes i mean this isn't to be surprising at all, but he was the second biggest donor to the Democratic Party, right? Yeah. There was a non-material reason that he contributed to Joe Biden being elected. Like, if you just look at the donations.

Yeah. Or not necessarily reluctant about supporting that bid. And, like, he had said himself prior to all this thing blowing up, he was ready to spend a billion dollars on 2024. No shit. Yeah. Like we're talking, his mother was actually a bundler for democratic donations. Like she ran a pack for the Democrats. So I don't know how.

And I'm not even trying to make it political. No, no, no. Wasn't it which newspaper? And it was a big one at the time ended up writing like a piece trying to multiple puff pieces. Like, come on. It's a fucking joke, dude. It's it was a left wing cabal.

Like, uh, I think cabal is a hard word, but because he actually was donating to also Republicans, but through dark pools. And, but the whole point was that him and his, one of his co-founders, they were donating like ultimately to win favors politicians so they could get a regulatory protection around FTX, right? We discussed it last year was the whole idea leading up to this blow up. And we mentioned CZ at the top. CZ had caught wind that FTX, who, by the way, CZ, just as a reminder, is probably the crypto kingpin in the world right now. CZ has a competing exchange.

But CZ had also seeded SBF and was, in a way, his mentor. But he had caught wind, so called around September, October of last year, and the blowup is in November. He had caught wind that SBF was going to US regulators and being like, hey, you should look into CZ. So they're trying to take each other down. Exactly, right? So he, I wouldn't even call it Democrat specific thing,

but I think that's the most visible part of it. SBF was trying to use money to manipulate the U.S. political system, which is, this is not a conspiracy theory. Everybody knows that's how the game goes. Yeah, yeah. To buy yourself some safety. It's a crazy crazy story but um and not moving on from that but you already mentioned ai and and a lot and i really

enjoy following you on twitter which is actually incredible i read did you get 600 000 new followers in one year oh it was it was two years two years two years just amazing amazing work by you you've deserved reporting on all these interesting different subjects but ai should i be terrified because i i am a little terrified and i don't know if that's the general consensus among people out there but i've seen people come out saying everything's going a little too fast and that we should be worried and other people saying no no we're all good so in your opinion terms of AI, is this like something to worry about? Well, let me ask you which part of AI specifically you want to address.

There's like... The movie with Will Smith. I'll give you two options. The movie with Will Smith, shit like that. No, I'll give you two versions, right? There's the Terminator 2, will this thing get smarter than us and take us out version. There's also, there's a more like

will they take our jobs because those are kind of two. So I'm more thinking about like being murdered by a robot or also in a sense of these like deep fake AI videos that can make it look like I'm legit sitting there saying something I'm not. Brie comes

home. She left you for a robot. Yeah, the robot actually got some girth to him Watching TV You got seen her I mean that's pretty good movie Joaquin Phoenix right No I What I would say is I mean there are Extremely smart people that are

Very concerned about AI like Elon Musk for example and Other individuals that There's a non, if I'm being honest, the people, the people know the best are similar issues. Like you talk to any of these experts, like OpenAI, Anthropic, all these kinds of companies we're talking about. And you ask them, say, Hey, what's the risk that AI may take us out? Like they, with a straight face, they'll be like, Oh yeah, it's like five to 10%, like completely straight face. Right.

It's like, like in the sense of, you know, we have to build it safely, but we also are seeing how quickly it's advancing and they'll say, and you know, to take us out has different connotations, but they are incredibly concerned about it. But you actually see a lot of similar things going on in AI though, like Microsoft and OpenAI and Google, they're happy to sign these papers saying like, Hey, we need to be regulated. But part of it is like the president Biden just released an executive order around AI. One thing about regulations, we just talked about FTX regulators entrenched the incumbent because new companies

can't pay for, uh, to cover the regulations, right? There's all these regulations. Like after the banking crisis in 2008, what happens? All the banks got bigger because you got to file like thousands of pages of regulations. You have to have 20 people working in the regulatory department, right? So these companies now, they're basically trying to entrench themselves by asking to be regulated by the government. Even while they're saying, oh, yeah, there's a 5% chance this might destroy the world. Please regulate us instead of us just stopping working on this. Yeah.

And also, in the midst of this, hiring people that were regulators to then work for them to know how to make the system. It's very, it's quite cynical. But what I will say, like- It's accurate. I mean, the thing that surprised me and has surprised a lot of people- Trunk's going to go missing after this interview. Exactly, right? accurate there i mean the thing the thing that surprised me and has surprised a lot of people gonna go missing after this interview exactly right man guys i am in vancouver at uh what time

they're in now 4 30 p.m i do not have a death wish i'm very happy no no the uh what i would say is so if you'd ask people 10 years ago what where they thought ai would first, as in where do you think artificial intelligence would replace jobs first? Almost across the board, they'd be like, oh, yeah, blue collar. We'll just have factory machines replacing everyone. Then maybe they'll do like copywriting, maybe some accounting stuff and maybe some legal work because legal work is basically accounting with words. Right. So things are super structured. The last thing they'll ever do is creative work, right? Not anymore, dude.

But it's turned out in the past year, it's like completely flipped. The hardest thing to do is the manufacturing stuff. It's actually extremely difficult to make robots with AI and do everything properly, right? They're advancing. But as you've seen, and like you said, not anymore, you've seen this stuff with a chat GPT.

How about the music, Chong? Dude, it's insane. They're making music that's incredible. You can't tell the difference. It's math, right? Because music is ultimately math. So what else? What's AI really good at?

It's good at math, right? So I'll address that being like people were surprised at the parts of the economy it hit first. So that kind of throws everything out the door of, uh, Hey, humans are special and human consciousness is this unique thing that cannot be recreated. I'm much more along the lines now that human consciousness can be

recreated. Um, I don't think we're quite there yet, but seeing some of these outputs are just, it's jarring, right? It's absolutely jarring. The creative outputs.

Chong. I just want to go back to SBF quickly. So in, in about a couple of his investments, you talked about the AI, you talked about the politicians. His girlfriend testified that some of the money in the accounts went to Thai hookers.

Yeah, this is an insane story. Do you think that my 3K went to ping pong balls being shot in SBF's face out of Thailand hookers' pussies? Do you think that that's a possibility i can tell you 3k will get you a lot of ping pong balls in bangkok no shit no so i will actually i will that story's quite crazy he they had a billion dollars stuck on a asian exchange and they needed to basically get that money out and one way they did it was you mentioned asian

thai parts too they they got a thai prostitute to set up a trading account and they tried to trade against this other Asian exchange, but they had an insider on the Asian exchange where the other side tried to lose money to the Thai prostitute. It's just insane. But what ended up happening was to get the billion dollars out, they greenlit a $150 dollar bribe and there is literally an excel spreadsheet that says it has a has a figure 150 million and in the sub in the explainer area just says that thing that's all it says that's what it was like this is how ridiculous this whole thing got and they were also i mean they apparently like stories of major drug use and like sex parties within this house in the Bahamas. Like, is that all pretty much true? Yeah. I mean,

tons of amphetamines. That's probably not that surprising. Like if you're a house of no return, crypto style. Exactly. Right. I mean, tons of amphetamines, tons. I mean, any type of, if you've got any, honestly, any engineering team at a lot of these companies, I mean, tons of amphetamines, tons. I mean, any type of, honestly, any engineering team at a lot of these companies. I mean, these people are microdosing in the Valley, right? And they're up all night doing this shit. It's just like, weird shit was going on. Microdosing what? Acid. Oh, no shit.

Yeah, a lot of people in the Valley microdose acid. Yeah, it's pretty wild. All right, so can I be in it? He's like, man, I don't have a second job from Google. How do you do that by microdosing? It's possible. Biz, they said that thing on that. She was just saying, Biz, you would have blamed it on Lauren Hill.

Biz is a big Lauren Hill fan. She's back on tour, R.A. Your Rolling Stones better watch out, buddy. Fuji's, Fuji's, the classic. They're actually coming Rolling Stones. Better watch out, buddy. Fuji's. Fuji's. The classic. They're actually coming to Vancouver on Sunday. Oh, Lauryn Hill? Yeah, Lauryn Hill's coming.

I think the one guy can't get into Canada because he's got a bunch of felonies like SBF, but the other two are there. Wait, are you referring to Praws? Yes. If you're referring to Praws. Dude, holy shit. This story might be as crazy as SBF story. Do you guys know? Come on.

Yeah. Do you guys know Joe Lowe? No. Have you guys ever heard the name Joe Lowe? All right. Let me give a spin checklist listeners about this gentleman named J-H-O space L-O-W. He at one point had more liquid money accessible to him than even a guy like SBF. He had $6 billion in his bank account in Malaysia because he had set up a sovereign wealth fund or with the Malaysian

sovereign wealth fund with a dirty Goldman Sachs guy. This is the dude that financed Wolf of Wall Street with Leo DiCaprio. I swear to God, if you guys Google Joe Lowe, you will have seen photos of him because he hung out with every celebrity in the world, every single celebrity in the world. This dude was a huge Malaysian hitter and he stole over $5 billion from basically use the government credit of Malaysia to raise money, stole it. And now all the citizens of Malaysia are going to have to pay this back eventually through taxes and lost opportunities. So this gentleman, the reason I'm bringing him up is one of Jho Low's friends was Praz from the Fugees.

And Praz is actually under government investigation because Jho Low was so close to the Chinese Communist Party. This is literally global, international... This sounds like a movie, Chong. It says he's still a fugitive. He's hiding in China. He's an asset to the country of China and the

Chinese Communist Party because he has billions hidden around the world. This guy is insane. People, Joe Lowe, a very famous book called Billion Dollar Wh whale and i'll tell you one more story which you guys will appreciate so do you guys remember the have you guys seen wolf of wall street yeah oh yeah so do you remember the name of the gentleman uh actually already you probably know do you remember the name of the guy they did it off of this total scammer a total wall street scammer jordan belfort yeah yeah yeah so jordan belfort is the subject of the

movie wolf of wall street joe lowe got buddy buddy with leo dicaprio he gave dicaprio i think a 15 million dollar picasso painting that picasso that leo had to give back to the government as part of like the collecting of assets so here's the crazy thing jordan belford i believe was in con he was at a con film festival uh during the uh they hadn't finished filming yet but the financing of the wolf of wall street had gone down they're partying and this guy joe low his whole shtick was when i showed the party everyone used to know i'm the richest guy here so they used to have bottle competition i'm sure you guys have done bottle competitions i know former athletes here you guys have had a good time yes but this guy is sending over to your buddy yeah he's spending five million dollars a night a bottle competition literally

give me every single ace of spade balls you got bring them out give me all the firecrackers and flares whoever brings out the most wins right and then jordan belfer looks over at joe lowe and he goes that money's stolen. And I think he's with his girlfriend at the time. And she's like, what do you mean? He's like, nobody that earned their money would spend it this way. And he's like, that guy stole all that money.

He knew, he just knew as a guy in the game that this guy was spending his money so recklessly. He's like, I've seen this. If you earned your money, like honestly, you would never spend it like that. A scumbag knows another scumbag. Exactly. So, there's the pros story.

Wow. Trunk, you're unbelievable, buddy. Trunky baby. Bringing it back to spit and shake. All right, what do you got for him? I just want to ask, like, what's, like, Joe Schmoe, Joe Sixpack, how would he use AI or what he needed? Or is it just for companies?

I'm baffled. I don't really understand much of it, to be honest. Have you guys dabbled at all? I haven't. I actually messed around trying to go on, what was the page you could go and put in something and they'd write, was that chat? Chat GPT. Okay, so when I went to go, it was already full or subscribed or whatever. A couple months ago, you couldn't use it anymore, basically.

So I've never dabbled in it at all. I would say this. I would say for white-collar work, the way that it can be beneficial. I mean, to be honest, you probably use – do you guys get transcripts for your podcast done online? We do like an outline before RA does it and the guys go over it and just to know what we're going to talk about on Mondays. How do you transcribe it afterwards? Do you guys

run it through a speech-to-text machine? We can't even speak normally, dude. We have a system that does it for us. Do you know, okay, that system is using AI, right? So like, basically, when you're asking me

how does a Joe Schmo use it? It's like, do you have white collar work that you hate? Do you have administrative work that you hate? AI is very good at that. So I'll give you an example for me. I use it all the time for editing. I write a ton, but I don't have a professional editor anymore.

I stopped writing for Bloomberg earlier this year, so I don't have a professional editor. I edit all my work and like writing, editing, two completely different skills, right? It's very, it's like the difficult thing with a lot of white call work is context switching i mean you'll understand too with any work you do is like if you're doing one task and then you switch to another task i think research shows it takes like 20 minutes to get back to that first just cognitively right yeah because your brain's wired into what you were doing first exactly right you're

like fuck where was that's why having a kid is like the greatest like it just steals you you to context switching. Right. You're doing anything. Your fucking kid runs in the room. You're just like so disheveled, but you got to get back to it. But context switching is actually the biggest cost for like when people say they multitask. First of all, no one can actually multitask. It ruins your train of thought and thinking what you're, what you're actually doing is that you're just ruining your ability to finish one thing and just starting something else, right? But AI is really good. For me specifically, I'll write something. I'll be like, fuck, I got to edit this thing. And in the old world, I would just never edit it, right? I'd edit it like a week later, but now just running through the AI do it. And so AI is really good at that heavy kind of lifting

stuff. Trang, actually, we use AI on our audio now. And for something that used to take me six, seven hours trying to edit every little bit of the audio, we can run that through AI. Is it discrete? No, no, it's different. We do it through Adobe, but we use the Adobe AI and it can clean up audio that would take me as an editor six, seven

hours to fix. There you go. All right, man. Right there, man. Is it going to help me peaking? Is it going to help me peaking during this interview so far with this mobile mic I have? Well, let's thank that. Yeah, no. There's a lot of that kind of... I'll tell you actually the biggest use case right now, I don't want to bore the listeners about

AI use cases, but a big one is coding. Massive coding lift. So Microsoft has a tool for coding where essentially it saves coders half the time using AI. Okay. So my brother does coding for a living. My brother Colin. Not anymore. And I saw all this AI talk and I was like almost worried, but in a sense, it won't get rid of coders. It'll just really help them. It can augment them. Certainly there'll be people that, I mean,

take about previous tool, right? Take Excel or Microsoft Word, even just take older ones, something from the nineties, right? When Microsoft Word and Excel were blowing up in the nineties under Microsoft, there were people that kind of refused to do that, right? They would want to do the old way. The people that refuse to do it would make a third of the salary of the person that embraced it. And the other thing too is like people also lost jobs, but the point is these tools create more productivity. I will actually, here's a very good analogy. I think that you guys will appreciate in the fifties and sixties. Do you guys remember like a show like mad men and like you'd have these offices and

there'd be secretaries typing, right? It'd be like 20 secretaries in a room typing. So if you actually think about what those secretaries are doing, or even just, it doesn't have to be female, it could be a male worker, right? What they're doing is just basically data input. So if you actually take a look at a spreadsheet and take a look at that room in the 50s with 20 people on their desk typing, a single cell in a spreadsheet

is the equivalent of one person entering data for one cell, basically. So the amount of productivity increase you get over decades with technology is massive. So the question then becomes, did we lose jobs? Yeah, we did lose jobs. But we also gained a shit ton of new jobs. So I think that's one way to think about it. And I think there'll be a lot new different jobs that'll happen,

but yet it's worthwhile embracing for people. Because the cost is so low to try. You mentioned the workplace with the 20 typers, male or female. Good cover there. You have these amazing threads. And one of the ones recently was on WeWork and how it ended up going bankrupt. Now, this was one of the most genius ideas. It work and how it ended up going bankrupt now this was one of the most genius ideas it felt like you know five ten years ago whenever it was created

how did it end up going bankrupt considering it costs a lot to lease space and this seemed like a good idea to begin with do you guys do you guys own real estate i feel like wit owns real estate uh yeah not as much as i wish but a little bit uh not commercial i i more more like residential okay not commercial so i think understanding and obviously you guys in your positions that you understand very much like what are the key levers in real estate right so what are the interest rates what can you borrow because that's that's the main thing right is like what you can borrow at yeah and what you can borrow at exactly and i'm sure uh everyone over the past year has seen the pain of like when that actually changes right so post-financial crisis what really happened

in the u.s economy global economies in general interest rates near zero and we work is a very specific near zero type of a company so there's this there's a saying called the zero interest rate policy zerp so that i don't have you guys heard this term zurp yep yeah so zurp is a very popular terminology in the finance world and just people like that joke about finance because zurp basically spoke about this period where you know like uber has burned 20 billion dollars to become the company is remember when you could get a ride across new york for like five bucks because now it's subsidizing it right and now it's so expensive right exactly or you used to be able to do DoorDash. You basically get free food

if you give enough referrals, right? So people are just giving money away to build these businesses. Some businesses came out on the other side. Airbnb, for example, came out on the other side. It's a very reasonable business. It's a $100 billion business. Positive cashflow.

Uber, to date, I don't even think it's turned a profit dollar business, positive cashflow. Uber to date, I don't even think it's turned a profit, like a true accounting profit. It's burnt over $20 billion, right? Because some businesses work if you're being subsidized forever by venture capitalists that are willing to give you billions of dollars, right? SBF, FTX is almost the perfect example of a company where nobody did any due diligence. They gave a guy that had wacky hair and it spoke well, $10 billion, right? But WeWork is actually very much this. Adam Neumann, the CEO. I like the show a lot. It's a good show, right?

So Adam Neumann, who's played by Jared Leto in the show, the thing about Adam Neumann is if people are giving away money and you're kind of like, he's a six, three Israeli dude, really, really good public speaker, super charismatic. You go do something and you convince people to give you money. It's there. You're not, you're not actually doing anything wrong, right? That's the game. The game being played was companies like, do you remember the show, the main investor, Masayoshi-san? So he had raised almost $100 billion from the Saudis. So the thing is this, when you have $100 billion, what can you even invest it in, right? There's only so many things

you can invest $100 billion in. Real estate is one of those things because real estate is a global asset class that could conceivably be worth hundreds of billions of dollars. So they basically burned $20 billion with Adam Neumann because there aren't that many places to put it. But back to your business model question, Biz, is yeah, at zero interest rate environment and pre-COVID, it made a lot of sense, right? A lot of opportunity to, you still have high vacancy. People aren't working from home like crazy. People, a lot of companies aren't giving up all these commercial leases. Past year, how many companies have given up 70, 80, a hundred million dollar commercial spaces? Like Google's

like, wait, it turns out we don't need this a hundred million dollar building in downtown San Francisco, right? So pre-COVID, during the zero interest rate environment, WeWork, amazing, amazing potential business. And what Adam Neumann did, which was his secret sauce, was he basically convinced people that this was a technology business. So when they tried to go public, WeWork was assigned, or he tried to assign it a quote unquote technology multiple. So technology companies typically have higher multiples than like a boring utility business because you get higher multiples on, so whatever, call it 10 times revenue, right? Let's say a company does a hundred times, a hundred million

dollars a year. You assign it at 10 times revenue. So you valid a billion. That's a fairly high multiple. A utilities company, which is like your local utility, would not get 10 times multiple on the revenue. It might get two times because it's a boring utility, right? There is no future growth. You know exactly how much money utility will always make because the government mandates it. So Adam Neumann's secret sauce was he convinced people that this actually this pretty boring business, which is just real estate releasing. He like put in a couple like cold brew stations and like ping pong tables and convinced people it was a tech company. That's how they ended up burning $20 billion.

And in the end, whether it's sports or business, it all comes down to leadership. SPF and Adam Neumann, like egomaniacs that think they're geniuses. And even though sometimes they are, they end up themselves and all their their employees over in the end so in terms of you personally like your twitter growth and now i see like elon musk will respond to a decent amount of your tweets like do you remember like had you spoken to him before or was the first time he responded to something like for you like holy shit elon's elon's answering me now like what was that like no no yeah i never saw him before and uh i think i think all three of us will know from like especially from you guys are in the barstool world right it's like they built this thing internet first and he the power of putting media on the internet uh that sounds so generic but like

using internet uh and twitter and these like these platforms that don't have gatekeepers, like the New York Times, never in a million years would have hired me. I don't need the New York Times anymore. Right. I go straight to people that want to read and do my stuff. But the whole point is it's not just New York Times, it's any old legacy media. So podcasts, newsletters, social, you can build your own audience because there's still this element of meritocracy to it, right? People listen to you guys because you guys do the best and most engaging and funniest analysis about the NHL, right? That's a meritocracy. You can't force somebody to like that. There's no amount of money that SBF could have given a random group of four people to make them

the most popular podcast in the world for this niche. And the way we know that is Spotify done a lot of great things, but they also threw money at celebrities. Remember Prince Harry and Meghan Markle? Threw $20 million. Giant failure there. Giant failure. It's like there's a lot – like certain mediums like this. So just going back to your question about Elon, it's like, yeah,

it's just like just writing on the internet. Elon's super active on Twitter, obviously. Obviously, he acquired it last year. it's like just writing on the internet elon super active on twitter obviously obviously acquired it last year and it it's less of an elon story it's more just like the people i've been able to meet even just you guys right it's amazing if you put stuff out there and honestly this sounds cheesy but just actually be authentic to yourself because that's the only thing you can do forever like the people i respect and look up to the most in the content business if you want to say it that way they are who they are.

Dave Portnoy has been the same person for 20 years. And he never changed, as we all know. Whatever you think about him, I'm a huge fan. And the success comes because people know what they're getting with him. But if you're just trying to chase trends and like you're counting on Spotify to give you a $20 million deal because you're famous in some other domain. That's not a winning recipe. So yeah, now Elon and I just chat a ton in public. And it's just because clearly the subject matter,

the things I talk about, he obviously enjoys for some of it. Yeah, basically it's proof for you that you've done a fantastic job. No, I appreciate that, man. Tron, do you think you could get him a one-on-one interview with R.A.? Well, R.A., why don't you pitch him in? What would your main three questions be? R.A. hates his guts, Tron. Or a rough and rowdy. Either one.

Oh, R.A.'s not... Okay, okay. I'm not necessarily a Muskrat, not a big fan. Nothing to do with him. It was pre-Twitter. I had a blocked feed before he bought Twitter. He's convinced that R.A.'s convinced that when he blocked him, Elon

started fucking with his follower count and all of his engagement. So there's some serious beef, one-on-one beef. Elon, I know, is sitting around in a dragon lair right now wondering, how do I get R.A. back on my side? 100%. Alright, R.A., we might have to sit down. You might have to give me some preamble,

so I'm not stepping on any feet here, but this sounds like a potential, high potential buff that needs to be resolved here. But I actually had a question for you. Wait, go ahead, R.A. No, no, I was just reacting to you. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say,

I actually had a question for you guys around, we were talking about something, I'm going to bring it back to your podcast and the nhl is you wait you're saying how like you know when people are giving so much money and there's kind of zero interest rate environment it's not just about business right this happens in sports right like what are some examples in the nhl of where like there's too much cap space or or this is a favorite one new owner syndrome whenever there's a new owner of a franchise it's like this is something Bill Simmons always says when a new owner comes in to buy a team they just go on the craziest spending

spree it's like the Phoenix Suns did it last year when Matt Ishba bought the the Suns comes in traded every asset possible for Kevin Durant spent everything they had this summer to get Bradley Beal where like you're kind of drunk and you're not doing the equivalent of a due diligence that a VC should have done at FTX, right? How does this happen in the NHL? It's a little different. Basically, in a sense, yeah, it is a new toy for a lot of these guys, but the NHL salary cap creates so many logistical nightmares

for quick turnaround change because you can't get rid of guys that you want to get rid of if they make a lot of money, because no teams can take them on. And then also, in a sense, you have a new job to get these fans back in the team's corner. And for the most part, when a team does change owners, it's like something has gone wrong. Usually, there's been some dark days. So the guy in Ottawa just comes in and he's all fired up. That's a different story that we already went into this podcast. But he can't do that much besides maybe clear house in terms of the people running the organization. That's what we kind of see in hockey where a new owner will come in and he just kind of wants his business to be his.

So whether it's a new president, a new GM, a new coach, that's kind of what they can do. But it can't be like basketball, because you can't just get rid of all these guys because of the salary cap. So is that, in your opinion, is that good for the sport? So we've had a lot of discussions about the salary cap. I think it creates a ton of, and these guys will step in and tell me what they think. It creates a ton of parody in the league,

which is a good thing. It also creates issues in terms of no longer do we see a lot of big trades. Free agency frenzy in July 1st, where the NBA has cornered that market and free agency in the NBA is like a holiday and crazy shit goes down. The NHL, it's turned into a little bit of a

day for depth players, right? Because the big guys, they're signed prior to their contracts ending. They don't want to allow these players to get to free agency. So it doesn't really have that huge effect of July 1st as it used to. Now, we've talked before about an idea. It's actually Keith Yandel was, I think, the first to say it to me that maybe one guy on every nhl team wouldn't count against the cap and that could kind of create a little bit more spending and a little bit more frenzy at free agency but as of right now the nhl is kind of locked into a salary cap and and and core players being locked up long term ever before they're ever able to hit the the ufa market i completely. That was a great breakdown.

The salary cap, the hard salary cap, has cock-blocked a lot of the entertainment as far as the trades and the free agencies, but the parity is one thing it has created. And just like Whit mentioned with the maybe one guy doesn't count towards the cap, I think that if you draft and it's homegrown talent, there should be a discount percentage-wise if you keep those guys around.

So the thing about the NHL too is when these GMs sign guys and they're bad deals, you get punished longer. Where in these other sports that have these soft caps or no cap at all, these rich teams like the Yankees, the Boston Red and red socks they can just buy their way out of trouble so from from an overall sense i think that the the the hard cap should be higher but i like how it does create that parody and if you're going to be a bozo gm or or hire bad people and you're going to find yourself in trouble you got to sit there and lick your wounds so overall even if even if an owner a super rich owner like they all are but like crazy rich and didn't care about the spending and he was like all right uh tomas hurdle in san jose like we just signed him eight nine million a year i want to get rid of him where he

could be like all right i don't care i'll just pay him he's gone well what happens is the cap hit stays on against the team right so you can buy a guy out and he's no longer a part of your organization, but the salary cap, the thing that affects everything within each team, you're still getting charged for them, whether it's two-thirds of it or a third of his contract. It's like you can never just get out of a problem with the NHL. So you're still – you're paying the – well, it puts an onus on having like really good like general –

Really? Basically, the NHL has turned into like if you don't draft well, you're dead. I now believe it's like 95% of successful NHL teams, they just have to draft well. There's no other way to get guys that are like elite level talent if you aren't drafting them. So it's created parity and it's created a little boredom in terms of like just movement throughout the league i had like two semi uh questions related to that it's like number one is like the question of is parity actually good for sport is i don't know my true feeling on this but i'll just have two examples right nfl um obviously periods where

a lot of different teams win even the the Patriots, despite their dynasty, that split over basically two segments of time, right? And then we're in basketball, so many dynasties, right? And then that's still, despite the amount, like Jordan in the 90s, the Warriors recently, the Spurs in the early 2000s. So like, or 2000s, 2010, or the 15-year run they had with Duncan. But there's still interest in the sport. It's like when teams are dominating, like they haves 2010 or the 15 year run they have with duncan but there's still interest

in the sport is like when teams are dominating like they have an inch on the past right like obviously this has happened before the canadians in the 70s the oilers in the 80s uh that gets red wings in the 2000s that period is that is that is parody actually better like i'm actually curious as your guys's thoughts i like i like where you're going with this but you could also say like in the nhl we call them modern day dynasties for instance the chicago blackhawks they won three championships over the course of what guys six years uh five uh well 2010 13 and 15 so six yeah okay so six so six years i consider that that's a dynasty and especially in hockey because it is so hard to repeat, given the grueling aspect of playoffs, how deep you go and how you have to replenish because of that hard cap.

I would also consider maybe on the edge, LA Kings as a modern day dynasty, because they won two in that period. And then also the Tampa Bay Lightning, because they won the president's trophy, got knocked out first round, but then they won back-to-back, and then they went to the Stanley Cup Finals. For me, those three teams are probably the three that stand out the most within the most recent period of time, but nothing like the old days where you're seeing four in a row.

I could almost guarantee you that I would put a million bucks on it that you're never, ever going to see another NHl team win even three stanley i agree would you guys want like but if that happened you'd be like this is you would be very excited about it i would suck off the gm how about that making it to that third straight final was was a story in itself the The parity level for me, I think it's a positive only because when you get to the first round of the playoffs in the NHL and you almost see a dip in the second and third round sometimes

in terms of entertainment. But I think the two weeks of the first round of the NHL might be the best two weeks in sports because the eighth seed has a legitimate chance. We saw it with Tampa losing to Columbus in that incredible run after their president's trophy. And legitimate chance we saw it with tampa losing to columbus and that incredible run after their president's trophy and last year we saw the bruins become

the greatest regular season team ever and lose in the first round so it's like that part of it makes the first round that uh impressive and also entertaining with the nhl so that part of the parody i do enjoy and also I think that through any sport, like the goaltending position and all of a sudden playoff time becomes so important and valuable where if, if all of a sudden guys got, you know, if he's got a rabbit up his ass,

like Bobrovsky ended up getting called in what game three or four. And then he just went on this crazy run. So that's also an element to it. But are you done with your hockey questions trunk because i'm gonna come back at you yeah i got one more but i just want for the record i don't want you guys clipping this out biz said that he would suck off the gym if he won three in a row business many things we'll just keep it we'll keep it podcast we won't be clipping that yeah we won't no uh no the other thing that i had was that my

last nhl really question was about uh what you're talking about the offseason it's not as sexy because of the structure as you're not having this crazy uh you know in the nba adrian wujikowski and shams terrania or like basically they're almost bigger than the sport in a way right wodge bombs sham bombs it's like they're announcing the big trade, the big free agent signing. And they despise each other. And they hate each other, right? It makes it better. Oh, I didn't know that. Dude, so we're talking about,

you're talking about CZ Binance with Sam Bramion-Fried, you know, mentor-mentee relationship. If you didn't know this, Adrian Wojcicki hired shams to Yahoo Sports. There's always a connection there. There's always a connection.. There's always a connection. But I was reading up.

Anyways, the reason I bring that up is like, ever since I had my kids specifically, my kids are five and a half, almost six years old. And I just have less time for sports now. And sports in general, like I've gone, basketball is basically the only sport I can even really watch anymore. And even then, I'm basically just watching

YouTube highlights and following the game on Twitter, right? Like the story, the game of the game you're like any 15 year old fan they don't watch games they just watch highlights i've turned into one of i've turned into one of those and uh but the question i have is because that aspect is kind of taken away uh you guys are such commentators on the league is like does that bother you? Because there is that less, I mean, there's a, you know what bothers me about it is the fact that the NHL and I believe the MLB was the same. They might've changed their thinking. They won't allow us to share clips because we don't pay for rights.

How else are you going to grow the game to the younger generation considering they're all like, that's one thing. If we had Bettman on, I'd be like, why don't you let it, every time we post a clip, they're trying to to like they'll flag our account where it's like where do you think the kids are coming to watch what the hell's going on in the national hockey league so take the clips away you're just hurting yourself in my opinion i don't give a flying fuck i i agree with that um the one thing that the nba has mastered is creating their storylines are individuals and and that takes away from the team aspect and that is the complete opposite of the history of hockey and kind of what it's built

around and turn a team teamwork and and being a part of like and having your teammates uh just care about you as much as you care about them but the nba has gone to individuals i do think the nhl is starting to like turn a corner a little bit in terms of really propping up individual players. Because with the current youth and how they watch things, they're almost more into exact players as opposed to teams. So the more the NHL does that, while it takes away from the history of the game and being on a team, it probably is good in the long run for the growth of the sport. Absolutely. it probably is good in the long run for the growth of the sport absolutely and i just wanted to say though oh you're talking about athletes and popularity great episode with charles berkeley that was amazing thank you thank you that was all biz setting that up thanks tron yeah that's my boy

charles um i was gonna shift it well there's a couple more things we want to talk to you about is the whole costco clothing business as well as the golf business with Costco. Now, there were some numbers that came out recently and you'll know them all, just an astronomical amount of money that they're bringing in through selling their own clothes and just generic stuff in general. Well, Whit mentioned pre-call. Whit, do you use Kirkland golf balls?

I do not. I do not use them, but I've been told by people that when they're released within minutes they're gone and then they're resold at crazy like up upticks okay so i'm gonna explain to you guys about the kirkland brand which i think you'll appreciate does everybody here have a costco membership i don't i've never been in but my wife frequented you need it's there it's much different for, obviously when you have larger families,

it's you got to have a Costco membership. I don't need a hundred granola bars with the way that I travel and like, I'm good. Okay, so fair enough. But I'll hit you with some numbers about Costco. There you go, Costco size. Costco is one of the most fascinating businesses in the world.

And they're a monster. So I think, I believe that's the third largest retailer in the world. And they're a monster. So I believe they're the third largest retailer in the world. They did 223 billion last year. Okay. But here's the key. They, as you well know, you go in there, you'll get a 15 pound can of tuna for like two bucks or like a five pound jug of mayo for like five bucks, right? I don't even eat dinner sometimes. I just send my wife in there and she brings out all the samplings. Get the samplings, right?

So it's like the greatest deals. And the beauty about Costco, why they're able to get these deals is, A, like if you work, you're a supplier to Costco, you know you're going to get volume. You're guaranteed volume. So you're willing to take a margin cut to do the volume. And Costco has a very strict code. They will never have a product that they'll mark up more than 15%. Most are under five. They just want the customers to be happy. And the reason is this. When I asked you about the membership, that's the reason. told you that 223 billion they sold in products but in profit wise 70 percent of their profit

comes from membership fees no way membership fees are almost membership is almost pure margin it's like it seems simple then yeah that's the thing right amazon prime jeff bezos literally copied amazon prime after speaking to the founder of cost. And the thing is, once you buy and become a member of a place like you do Prime or Costco, you're more likely to go to Costco. You want to quote unquote, get your money's worth. So you're incentive, you're psychologically incentivized to go to Costco. So I pay 60 bucks for my annual membership. I'll spend way more there than I have to because I think everything's a deal. everything is a deal because as we mentioned they do so much volume they only work with like a couple thousand suppliers so when you go to a Costco store they have 4,000 SKUs that's stock keeping units that's

everything we mentioned uh tuna you know toothpaste milk 4,000 that's not a lot Walmart has 50,000 yeah normal grocery stores are between like 40,000 and 60,000. So you go there and you're like, ah, which kind of ketchup? There's 17 different ketchups. You know there's like one, right? Yeah, and they get rid of paradox. There's no paradox of choice. That's a popular term in consumer psychology.

It's like if you go and you see 17 ketchups, you're so confused, you just might not even walk out with any. You're like, fuck it. This is way too confusing. You go to Costco, there's one five- jug of mayo that's all you're gonna get heinz or bust when it comes to ketchup but i want to ask why are store brands pretty much always like inferior most so with food you know like i know they're cheaper but they always seem to be just a little bit off no that's good so my kid actually just uh walked in here said daddy you

swore so so dad i'm gonna stop swearing yeah that's harder. So my kid actually just walked in here and said, Daddy, you swore. So Dad, I'm going to stop swearing. That's harder than him just repeating the word. I'm going to shut the boy up, the lunatic. No, but R.A., I'll answer your question by talking about Kirkland. At least you didn't promise to suck off a general manager. It sounds like it's impossible. That sounds like a non-promise really, right? It doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

But R.A., so Kirkland, going back to Kirklandland golf balls, Kirkland is an in-house brand for Costco. And to your point, unlike some other popular in-house brands that may have a lower reputation, Kirkland forces the supplier. So I think they might, whoever's making those golf balls, it might actually be just Titleist. It might actually be one of the largest. So apparently it is Titleist. Yes. Now we're a tailor-made podcast, but people have said it's like a pro V1 with Kirkland on it. But basically they, so the company, they work with two things.

They had to promise never to tell that they're working with Costco. Because Costco's like, listen, it's Kirkland brand, right? It's our brand that we own and kirkland is uh because it's called kirkland because there's kirkland washington state which is where costco's from there's a kirkland city so kirkland signature they're not like these uh white label brands already that you mentioned they are the best because they're going to title list allegedly or they're going to levi strauss which many people believe is making the Kirkland clothing. And they're saying, we can guarantee you the most insane volume.

But if you do it, we control the entire experience. And you have to make your product actually better on one dimension. So actually, if you go play the golf ball, people might even say it's better than Titleist. It's because Costco is forcing them to do that. Whatever that metric might be. It could be like maybe weight per distance or whatever random metric they pick. Like they might go to somebody, somebody making almonds and be like,

yeah, we want our almonds to test better with this group. They have to test better. We're not going to use them. Right. And they are making actually a brand that people love. And already to answer your question, that's why they're able to pull it because of the volume. So they're selling over $50 billion a year in Kirkland brand.

To give you an idea of that scale, that's like Nike level. So Kirkland is doing Nike numbers. $9 billion in clothing as well, correct? $9 billion just in the clothing. Lululemon did $8 billion last year. I'll just tell you how big Kirkland is. Kirkland sold more clothing. Costco sold more clothing.

Kirkland brand and also some random high school brands that we all probably used to all wear. Gap, Ralph Lauren, the classics. They're able to scoop those up on what's called the gray market. So a lot of the clothing manufacturers aren't able to get rid of all their inventory. It finds their ways into different pockets of retail. And Costco just kind of buys them all up. And the beauty about Costco, and let me give you one quote

before you guys want to follow up with any questions about Kirkland because I know you got some, is so the founder of Costco, his name is Jim Senegal. This is the guy that is the quote machine. Have you guys heard the quote about if you change the price of the hot dog combo, I'll fucking kill you?

Yeah, so for you listeners that don't know, when Jim Senegal left as Costco CEO in the early 2010s, he, uh, gave it to another individual who's at Costco for three decades, uh, at that point. And then one day the guy comes in and he's like, Hey man, he's like, you know, the Costco calm, the hot dog calm was still a buck 50 is like with inflation, we've kept it the same for 30 years. It should really be four bucks. And Jim Senegal just goes, if you change the price of the hot dog combo, I'll fucking kill you. And like that's the legendary lore, right? But he actually had another great quote about clothing. So one time they were able to get a bunch of these Calvin Klein jeans and retail price from wholesalers like 28 bucks.

They negotiated down to 21. And he's speaking in front of MIT students. He's like, you know how tempting it was for me to keep that $7 extra on every jeans. But then he goes, once you take that extra margin, it's like taking heroin, you can't stop. So he's like, I'm not taking the extra dollars because it's too easy and it'll just warp the company or values. So the last thing I'll say about Costco is they announced a new CEO last week. You guys are going to laugh.

His name is Ron Vakris and he started at Costco in the 1980s as a forklift driver. That's the American dream. I love that. That's leadership. I love leadership. I love that stuff.

He's done everything. Forklift driver, working on the floor, cashier, just the whole nine, right? He knows the company front to back. So he's going to be CEO, Gen 1.

Because you're on Twitter, I know there's a forklift competition with guys. We all run our forklifts. What is it? Basically a competition they hold, right? A bunch of forklifts. In Germany, yeah. I think that's on the Ocho. You just did Ocho? You mean from Costco? It's all the Costco people doing? No, no. It was a completely random

German forklift championship thing. Oh, okay. Well, it's wrong. I mean, we have so much more, but we almost want to save it. It won't be a year before you come on again. What's up, Biz? Can I just ask two quick ones? You had a thread on how George Lucas kept the Star Wars IP in the 70s.

Now, can, like, RAs are big movies. You guys want me? I can do super quick if you guys want. Yeah, give us the Coles notes on that one. Okay, the super Coles note is, I know R.A.'s

a big Hollywood guy. Big Star Wars guy, yeah. Yeah, a big Star Wars guy. No, just basically the TLDR with George is like, it's probably considered the greatest deal in Hollywood history.

So he, have you guys seen American Graffiti? That was George Lucas' first movie about, as well as youth in California. Unexpected hit. the greatest deal in Hollywood history. So he, uh, have you guys seen American Graffiti? Uh, that was, uh, George Lucas's, uh, first movie about his mother's youth in California, unexpected hit. He went to the studio and, uh, afterwards and went, uh, Hey, I want to make this movie about, uh, uh, it's a space opera. This is what, how he described it. And the space opera was ended up becoming star Wars. And they're like, okay, we'll pay you $500,000 to direct it. Uh, he's like, no, no, no. How about this? I'll take a $350,000 pay cut. So I want $150,000 to direct it. He's like, no, no, no. How about this? I'll take a $350,000 pay cut.

So I want $150,000, but you will give me merchandise and sequel rights. And the reason they gave those up is this is the seventies. And it's not like it is now where, you know, when you go watch a Disney movie, walk out the store, there's 50 different dolls of that toy. He had the foresight to be like, okay, if this is going to be huge, I want to make so much money off of everything else. And sure enough, that one deal he made when he sold Lucasfilms to Disney in 2007, I believe, for $4 billion, he became a 2% shareholder in Disney. He was the largest single shareholder in Disney. You know who's largest? Steve Jobs, who sold Pixar to Disney. Steve Jobs owned 4% of Disney. I think to this day,

his wife, Lorene Powell Jobs, after she inherited the estate, is the largest single shareholder of Disney. So the whole point of this story is that George Lucas made one deal betting on himself. And the crazy thing about all that

is the merchandise is where all the money came from in the end. They sold, I think, $20 billion in toys, $10 billion in games, $5 billion in comic strips. It's just unbelievable, right? And it literally, he took a $350,000 pay cut to do it. And he knew the characters in the movie would end up being the best part of it. So then you're selling the figures. Exactly. What a genius idea. Totally crazy. Nobody thought about it before because in the 70s, people weren't making sequels.

They weren't doing this Marvel thing. It was very unexpected at the time. Yeah, the action figures weren't too big either at the time. He really kind of put them on the map with that. I still have a few left. You can go ahead, Biz.

I know you had another question. No. I think we've gone a little bit long. The only other one I had was who's the director of Interstellar? Oh, Christopher Nolan. Christopher Nolan on Howl. No, I think we've gone a little bit long. The only other one I had was the, who's the director of Interstellar? Oh, Christopher Nolan. Christopher Nolan on Howl. You know what?

Why don't we come back for the next one, the whole Nolan thing, because I got hours on Nolan, man. Oh, buddy, you're unbelievable. This is even better than the first time. Everyone, if you have not, check Tim out on Twitter. I want to get this correct.

Why don't you let everyone know the handle? At TrunkTFan. I cannot thank you guys enough. I know this is running a bit longer than pre-scheduled, but I had a blast with you guys. And would love for this not to do every year. But if we got more often, it'd be great, man. No, we'll be back before a year.

Promise you that. So we appreciate it, Trunk, and keep crushing it. Absolutely. Thanks, guys. All right, before we go any further, here's a few words from our friends over at Zinn. We're all looking for a change in routine, whether it's hitting a new machine at the gym or listening to new music. So if you're looking to move away from the hassle of traditional tobacco, Zinn Nicotine Pouch is a very simple way to introduce that change in your everyday life. And get this, they're America's number one nicotine pouch, only the best for our listeners.

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That's Z-Y-N dot com. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Big thanks for Trunk for jumping on with us, man. He's a great guy. I love his threads. I love the one on Tom Cruise. I don't know if you ever saw it. It's all his craziest stunts.

It's like 15 friggin' videos. Unbelievable, that stuff that Tom Cruise has done over the years. So thanks again, Tron. We'll see you soon, my friend. It's time, Biz, to grind my gears, baby. Brought to you by BigDealBruin.com slash finder. And you know what grinds my gears? And it's kind of sad, Biz, is what I see.

Yeah, that too. Oh, my God. I counted three backwards. As I see a pretty woman or a pretty lady, whatever. It doesn't have to be necessarily pretty. And they have those big fucking Mr. Limpid fish lips because they inject this shit into the lips. Oh, this is a good one. It's like, I don't understand why people do that.

At a certain point, you fucking look like a bluefish that just got pulled from Boston Harbor across the street. I don't know why women do it, man there's natural beauty trumps the fake shit all day uh I am a boob guy but I'd rather a fucking uh an a than fucking fake d's I mean I just don't understand why the lips don't like you it's so obvious you put in fucking whatever they put in your lips biz it's I don't know it It drives my gears. Ladies, just keep them the same. That's the way you were made. Don't put that shit in your lips. Everyone's going to know it's fucking fake. Keep it real.

Fucking keep it natural biz. That's my take. Well, I mean, the four girls, the four girls that listen to our podcast chew. They don't inject their lips or get fake tits. They're working. They're probably in a tractor right now, you know, grooming their crops. Ari, I agree crops. RA, I agree completely. I think that the internet has fried a lot of people's brains. They think that that equates to beauty.

The worst part about it is the side angle. If they saw how stupid they looked from the side, but some of them do it like subtly where it's not too bad, but some of them just inject them out the nines and it looks absolutely ridiculous. So it looks absolutely ridiculous so it looks like they could suck a golf ball through a garden hose i think that the kardashians made this a popular thing and along with the ass implants and tit implants and then you name it

uh horrible trend uh hope it ends and i agree it's not it's not beautiful it's fake the craziest thing is once you do it once you got to do it the rest of your life so it's like i think girls like how the it looks in can't in the pictures from the face on view but like yeah from the side it's a disaster it's uh there's probably some women you've seen with lips that have had it done but it doesn't look like you know like yeah let's be said subtly they've had a good doctor do it. I don't know. But it is bizarre when you see the botched ones. You're like, oh, you just feel so bad because they can't really go back once they've started that.

It's not a good look. All right. Once again, ladies, keep it natural. You're all beautiful. You don't have to do that shit. Grind My Gears brought to you by BigDealBruin.com. One other note. Get well, Jackie Hughes.

We hate to see what happened. He crashed on the boards last week. It was pretty ugly stuff. He had taken a hit versus the Capitals a little before that, so I hope it's not a fucking head knock, but get well soon, Jackie. We miss you out there. Got to have you back out on the ice. Ugly Sweaters, gee, they went on sale, I believe, yesterday.

Are they on sale for good now? I know it was a 24-hour sale. What's the latest on that? Yeah, so we have a 24-hour sale going on right now. So when this podcast is live, the sale will not be live. But one cool thing that Dave has initiated this year with the Ugly Sweater Sale is if we go over our goal, all of the money that we go over our goal will be then split and divided amongst behind the scenes people at Barstool Sports. So producers, editors, social media people, all these different people, guys on our team

would get a little payday. So buy the ugly sweaters. It's going to go to a good cause. We have this awesome Pink Whitney one. We have the Big Deal Brewing one. We have a Chicklets one. So check them out. BarstoolSports.com slash Chicklets. All right. The last one we have here uh the

whl made that neck guide protection mandatory last week the new rule went into effect friday or as soon as the gear is available to all teams uh teams need to wear it in practice in the games the ohl and q had already made them mandatory back in the day uh the penguins said they're going to be making it mandatory for uh wilkes barry scranton and wheeling uh what i know you want to go to you on this. T.J. Oshie had a little press conference. Not really a press conference, a scrum, rather. And he said he was doing it for his kids and his family

because, you know, why not? The guys just avoid him because of how it looks or how it feels. Why don't guys seem to be reluctant for this? For a long time, it was, you know, how it looks, and nobody wore one, and, you know, nobody wore a half shield. And now you're thinking back, like, I can't believe that. There's six guys left who don't wear a half shield because the rule was grandfathered in.

And now you come into the league, you have a half shield. And I do hope and I guess just getting older and realizing something that's preventable, I hope that at some point the NHL adopts, you have a neck guard on. And it sounds crazy to say, but it is about look. And there is some comfort involved, but guys get used to stuff. And first thing I did when that horrible tragedy went down is I ordered Ryder's shirt. I went to Osh's company, Warroad. They were sold out. They actually make a shirt that has the built-in neck guard and the built-in wrist guards.

I ordered Ryder. So they were were sold out but i got a bauer one um and then i ordered them some socks too that that are that are cut resistant gonna try to find some wrist things and it's just like the game's fast and and if you could maybe prevent something and and save your life it's like what are we doing not wearing them so you'd like to see usa hockey make them mandatory i know it's mandatory in Canada. I like seeing the junior leagues do it. And I think a lot of parents out there, first thing they did was try to get their sons or daughters some neck protection. So the NHL game and high-level hockey is so fast,

but the kids, I mean, they're jumping on each other, and they do the pig piles, and they don't know their bodies. They don't know where their legs are, and it's just kind of a no-brainer to me that kids have them on and wear them, and I wouldn't have said that years ago. They're a lot different, too, than they used to be, and I think the cool thing is...

Oh, it used to be the plastic ones and stuff. Oh, the iTech, though. They were the most itchy things in the world, but I think it's really cool to see all the companies now are making a huge initiative to figure out the issue. Just figure it out where they need to find something comfortable that works for everyone. Bauer was one in particular that released a statement how they're going to dedicate all this time, energy, and money to it. So, yeah, I think it's great to see that people are making a change here.

Also, that was a nice tribute. Nottingham Forest versus Aston Villa. It was at Nottingham's home stadium. They paused the game at the 47-minute mark. They held a flag up, gave them a standing ovation. I thought that was a really nice tribute. Not something you usually see over in England, but I thought they did a great job with that.

Boys, any final thoughts before we wrap it up here? No, I'm excited for California. Can't wait to get out there, getting some nice weather, hopefully, and meet some fans in the Anaheim area. Grinnelli mentioned where we'll be. Hopefully, we see some guys. We've got some fun sandbaggers coming up

and some interviews. And what's nice is we'll be together for the podcast recording next week. So I always love being in the same room. Seems like the show's a little more fun. And here we go. And it is now 4-4, Tampa Bay-Toronto, by the way. Oh, shit.

Okay, well, Matthew's got two. I just tweeted it out. I said, thank God for Austin Matthews. Two goals and an assist. The guy's lighting the lamp right now. My final thoughts are thank you to Hockey Night in Canada. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, over 300K. Thank God for Austin Matthews and,

give us your feedback on, on the trunk fan stuff. Like we want to continue to get, uh, like outside of just NHL or hockey players on the podcast. We like interviewing people who, you know, can talk and,

and educate us on other things as well. So we want to know what you guys think. And I'm sure you guys are going to love that one. And the last thing I will say is, R.A., it's the year of the warthog. I know you were battling the numbers today, but you're the fucking glue guy. We love you. And let's give him a couple of clicks for the season he's having, folks. The year of the hog.

We love you. We'll see you next time.