Spittin Chiclets - Spittin’ Chiclets Episode 513: Featuring Mark Messier

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

On Episode 513 of Spittin’ Chiclets, Mark Messier (01:11:44) joins to discuss his legendary run as an oiler, the transition to winning in New York, his relationship with Gretzky throughout the years, and much more. But first, Biz and Whit tie up a few loose ends as free agency continues to set the tone for next years storylines. Which teams should be disappointed with their off-season moves so far? What’s in store for the chiclets boys over the summer? Who will be our next white whale interview? All this and more in this weeks episode. 00:00:00 - Start 00:20:15 - Free Agency 01:11:44 - Mark Messier 02:32:20 - Around the League 02:36:11 - ETC. Support the Show: PINK WHITNEY: Take Your Shot with Pink Whitney NETSUITE: Head to https://NetSuite.com/CHICLETS.  CREMO SHAVING CREAM: You can find the new Cremo Men’s Body Wash at Walmart or https://Walmart.com VIATOR: Download the Viator app now to use code VIATOR10 for 10% off your first booking in the app.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/schiclets

Hey, Spittin' Chicklets listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Cheers, you love They say you're drunk at speech It's just so the thought I like to poke the bear I like to stir the pot But then you come on in And take it up a notch You hit me with a cheap shot, a cheap shot

Hello everybody! Yes, that's Witt's voice giving the patented R.A. hello everybody I wanted to bring this thing in and honor R.A.'s legendary intro. And today it's just actually Biz, myself, and G were on here. R.A.'s going to take a little bit of a break from the show for the summer. He never really has had a break. Biz, I don't know if you want to go into kind of explaining what's going on with our show and what's going on with R.A. and where we're at as a group right now, buddy.

Well, I mean, I think you just hit the nail on the head. I mean, since this pod started and he is the godfather, he hasn't really been able to get time off. It's usually been me and you in the summer. And just given everything that's going on in RA's life, personal life right now, and if he wants to maybe divulge a little bit more of the details of that, I just think that he needs a little break. He needs to be able to go away and and

address some of his personal stuff and uh we love him and as i said he's the godfather of this podcast so we are looking forward when we come back around in the regular season um for our our predictions or whatever our previews uh those have always gone real well yes yeah like like all of us having florida missing the playoffs this year um but uh he's going to be rolling about back around then and uh everybody deserves a break at some point and i don't know some people have been barking online quite a bit about the the crazy run that we we've been on especially in the last month and uh i think really we all need a little bit of rest but for the time being it's going to be me and wit hopping on to to intro all these interviews

and talk about probably a little bit of hockey news that is rolling out over the course of the summer i mean it never really stops anymore it feels like it's a 12-month job now uh given the craziness of the hockey world whether it's uh um world juniors this that and all the above so for the time being i know today we're going to go over the few little signings that trickled in after the free agency period started and snap it around with a little bit of more news. So no R.A. from the time being. I don't know when you guys are going to hear from him, but at the end of the day, please just give him his privacy and his time away and let him enjoy it and give him a nice little reset. Basically, the warthog is going in his cage for the next two months. Yeah, the warthog's in the cage, but we're feeding him through the cage. We're still sticking in some carrot sticks

and some different type of meats that the warthogs like. And on a serious note, the best part of our show and what's gotten so crazy over the years is I think being in people's cars or headphones or however you may listen or YouTube or Rumble, it seems like people, not only do you guys love the show, which we appreciate. And as the show goes on, people, you love it. You can't stand it. It goes back and forth. It's just like,'s just like a family. And that's kind of how we've always approached this,

that Biz, myself, RA, G, Fish, Pasha, Army, Merle, all the people we're always with. It truly is a family and a team. Now, within any team, you get in arguments, you get in disagreements. There's great times, there's bad times. And I think that Chicklets is no different. I think a lot of people who have been listening over the years, you've kind of really almost feel like you know us so well. We're talking about our personal lives, which we love doing. It feels like the whole listenership and all the fans, it is one giant family. I'm sure that fans run into other people with maybe Chicklets merch on, oh, you like the show? Oh, what's your favorite interview? Little things that make this so special for us. R.A., obviously, and we had a long talk with R.A., things have just spiraled a little bit for him.

And I think the best part of this is what Biz said on our phone call, is that everyone loves a comeback story. And I'll tell you right now, I'm over in Nantucket. It's been a wonderful Fourth of July and week over here. And I've probably had five or six people come up to me, hey, where's R.A.? R.A. ever come to this island? It's crazy.

So, like, all the people out there that can't stand him, and obviously things have been a little more difficult for him later, and Biz said he could go into that. R.A. is one of our guys. This pod doesn't exist without him. So we don't really know what's going to be happening in the future, but we do know that he's a part of our squad and I think that just saying that and making that clear and also making it

clear that we even understood that things had gotten a little bit out of control and there are so many issues in his personal life right you know he's going through a divorce and there's a bunch of tough things that that just add and add and add and then all of a sudden you're kind of sitting there like what's going on i'm not in a great great space so him taking time off is going to be great for him it's going to be good for the show as biz said we'll come on mondays we'll just go through what we've been up to what's going on if anything in the hockey world and throw to the interviews we have banked so it's an it's it's an exciting time for a summer break biz and i will be able to continue to catch up biz we don't even really talk that much in the summer, so I'll be getting the weekly breakdowns from you.

Yeah, reconvene here on the pod. Catch up to what you've been up to. And just going back to what you said, how you're in Nantucket, you had five or six people ask. Buddy, I was at the Calgary Stampede. I think I had five or 600 people ask me. Every time they came up, it wasn't, hey, Biz. It's like, hey, Biz, where's R.A.?

Where's R.A.? And like you said, with all this travel and how everybody feels like we're all friends, because we are, we snap around like we're all boys, sometimes when you get on the road all the time, especially R.A., you're getting all these things offered to you. Hey, come take a shot. Come take a shot. Come do this.

Come do that. So that's why I think this is time away for him to be able to reset and really get those things together. We'll just make them come back bigger, better, and stronger. And, and as you touched down, he's the founding father of the podcast. He's the glue guy. So without him, it just doesn't really work. So we need him to go away and figure things out and he'll come back and be bigger, better, and stronger. And the pod's going to hit another rocket ship next year. Now, in the meantime, he will be involved in these interviews that we're dropping. We got Mark Messier on today.

This is one of our white whales and we got a chance to sit down with him in Edmonton. So every time we come on for these podcasts, it'll be a me and wit bring it in. And then you'll hear RA's voice on the interviews if you are going to miss them. So I think we've pretty much done a good job of laying it down here. And we also touched on hopefully R.A. at some point reaches out and kind of lets everybody know what's going on. And if he doesn't want to, that's up to him. Now, as far as I'm concerned with the Calgary Stampede.

How was it, dude? Oh, my God. This is the best party in all of Canada, like hands down. Oh, yeah. I think it goes for 10 full days, maybe 11 days, and it is cranking every night. They have musical acts, whether it's, I mean, last night they had Sexy Red. Have you ever seen this girl perform? I think I've seen some Instagram clips of Sexy Red, who can get a little little Kodak blackish at the Panthers game off the rails.

Yeah, like the lyrics, maybe not as well thought out and deep as like a Nas or a Jay-Z. Not exactly a poet, but I tell you what, when she drops the bars and then she turns around and she's popping her pussy, the crowd goes absolutely bananas. So some very cool acts they had some country acts um tate mccray performed on friday but i guess the way i could describe it is it's the waste management of canada it's kind of like that golf tournament but a lot more central where you don't have to double the length what do you mean double the length oh yeah waste management right it's quicker than 10 days yeah i think the waste management with all the the pro-am stuff is about five days but this is just the the best shit show going and um it was just uh i gotta name the two guys that started this off i have them written

down here it's uh dave earner and then paul acres these two guys started this they're buddies in calgary and they do other business i think they're like Billy Goats, have a bunch of money in the bank. But they somehow got the opportunity to open up this Cowboys music festival around the biggest rodeo in the world, which is the Calgary Stampede. And hundreds of thousands of people come in for this thing, and it's the best time ever. You can go watch the bull riding. You can go watch the chuck wagon racing.

And then after that, you can head over for the musical acts at cowboys tents they have other tents too but i would consider the other tents to be like the ahl version or the echl version of cowboys and uh ultimately they rolled out the red carpet for us another guy shane who helps out as helps us out here i rolled in with um with pasha my buddy cully and and then Joey Superstein, and then we just ripped it up for three days. One of those places, though, I know it goes 11, but it's three days in and out, fuck off, lose my number. That kind of thing.

I was going to say, if there's people that are ripping it all 10, they got to just be dying at the end of this. Some of the locals do do that. Actually, a lot of the locals they hibernate all winter and then all of a sudden the greatest show on earth comes to calgary for the 11 days with all these acts and they can't help themselves but indulge so it was an incredible weekend i got to spend a little time with my my uh i don't i spent a ton of time with you guys you guys are my work buddies and also obviously friend friends and family consider but these are more of my like kind of like ride or die back home buddies and you know how fun it

is snapping around with those guys were you now you're uh i guess back in our day when we used to rip it up even being in vegas how you were talking about you used to hit vegas up about six times a summer and i'd probably go once or twice and and we were club rats we were bottle service wasting money you're over that I'm over that I'm a pub guy I'm a well I mean we were doing bottle service yeah yeah yeah I'm so much better than that service yeah they have this VIP section upstairs in which they gave us wristbands like these guys take care of us every year so uh that's why we come back. I think we'll start making it more of an annual thing.

It's kind of one of those things that it abuses your body so much that you only want to come every three years, but considering I'm off the sauce for the nine, nine and a half months of the full season, I don't mind hitting the throttle for about a month afterward. Obviously, I've been on a bit of a heat or two, so I can't be a hypocrite,

but once I get back to Jackson tonight, it's kind of smooth sailing the rest of the summer. I think I'm going to go back to the no booze on starting August. And I know it was army, army hit up the group chat about how he's getting a trainer. I'm going to dial it back in too. Cause we have tricklets cup to worry about that's in London to kick things off.

So I have to go even digger, um, uh, deeper, dig deeper, excuse me. and as far as the training than last year because as much as I trained I was still out of shape compared to the rest of those those division a ball hockey guys and those guys are drinking like till 3 a.m every night so that kind of shows that maybe it's just hockey shape maybe you should get out on the ball hockey court and then just be ripping around. Like doing suicides at the ball hockey court. Yeah, I could probably use a little work on the quick feet and the conditioning.

Also, it's a little bit different. I was a great skater, but the minute I used to get the puck on my stick, I would slow down and I'd be looking down and my playmaking ability would just be non-existent. I think controlling the ball and doing some running and conditioning would probably be the best bet maybe work on the shot too but i don't even know where i would go in vancouver to do that i'm gonna be on east hastings shooting around with with all with all the djns just like rob robbing cars breaking into cars when you see a nice twig in the back you like just van Vancouver style, San Fran style, just robbing different vehicles. But I actually got a message that Logan Stankoven, our boy, is just apparently ripping up the

British Columbia ball hockey preventionals right now. So I love seeing that, right? Like you lighten up the NHL your rookie year and then you're going back. And what keeps the hands fresh for the NHL season? Ball hockey. And apparently he's just dominating. I've got all these different messages. I would almost have a beef if I was one of the players,

one of the normal studs that an NHL star comes in the mix and lights up. But I respect that. He's got the legs going, the wind going, and the mitts going. So ball hockey's worth that. Sometimes just doing straight cardio sucks too. So to be able to keep your cardio up in the summer and get to play in games, it's the ways going. So ball hockey's where it's at. Sometimes just doing straight cardio sucks too. So to be able to keep your cardio up in the summer and get to play in games, it's the way to go. I know Bedard, Patty Maroon,

I think they're more of the roller blade guys. They like to play the roller hockey. But yeah, either way, man, if you want to keep in shape in the offseason, ball hockey's the way to go. Gee, you could pop in here. You got the dates of Chicklets Cup. I think it's third week of

September. We've talked about it. It's going to be in London, Ontario. Memes is hometown. I don't think we have many spots available still, but people can still come around and enjoy the festivities. Yeah, it's September 19th through the 21st, so it's going to be an awesome time there. I can't wait to get up there. London, what a town that's going to be.

Also, best time of the year to golf. I've heard there's some tracks up there, so I'll have to be making my way. And then you and I go to Barstool Survivor. God knows how that's going to go. I have no real expectations besides that I know that madness will occur. On my end, an amazing week, as I mentioned. I got down here Tuesday, and the weather Tuesday, Wednesday, the second, third, and then the fourth on Thursday, And the weather Tuesday, Wednesday, the second, third, and then the fourth on Thursday. Dude, it was 75, no wind, sunny, hot in the sun. But then you got the umbrella at the beach.

You go under there. You're not too hot. It was literally perfection. Perfection. And then my brother-in-law, he gets the fireworks. And we go to the beach. And we're lighting our fireworks. And I'm like, I'm not going to help.

I'm not going to i'm not gonna be jason pierre paul i'm not blowing my hand off for these fireworks considering we can see the town's firework exhibit like in the distance but he put on a show it's about 20 minutes he ripped it up with a little uh what do they call it the end what's it what's it called at the end in fireworks what's the last finale finale the finale i mean me not remembering the word finale, that's a tough look. Not going to lie about that one. But one of the fireworks exploded in the PVC pipe. That's why. They could have blown him up. The video is standing right there.

He has to run back. But no one was injured. Everyone enjoyed it except for Wyatt. Wyatt, my son, this kid's a nut. But the noise of the fireworks, he was screaming uncontrollably. I walked down the beach, no, no, I can't be near him. So I brought him in the car, and he's a lot to handle. He's the best, but he's a lunatic, right?

And I actually got a kick out of it. Bree and I went out to dinner. I believe it was Friday night, and we were just talking. We haven't been out in months, right? So what do you do? You leave him at home with the parents parents or you get a babysitter? Her parents came over, yes. Bree's parents came over, had all the kids.

We just went to like early, went to this place, Lola, which is one of my favorite restaurants in Nantucket. We went early because there's no reservation. So we just figured we'd get a bar seat, waited about 10 minutes, and had a nice hour and a half just sit down kind of catching up i think anyone out there with kids especially can kind of talk about as a couple there's just you don't really spend much more on one time with especially when you got a newborn and anyone out there anyone out there there's a lot of people who say oh uh um one to two kids

is way harder than two to three two to threes a. You can go fuck right off if you're any of those people that say one to two kids is harder than two to three. Because two to three is grind time. Now, I mentioned the middle child, the wild child, Wyatt. So it's funny. We were out to dinner and I'm just talking. We're just kind of talking about the kids. Catching up, like I said, basically, with how much I'd been traveling. And we're talking about how wyatt's been acting and and i said listen you you you let him get away with it i don't take his

shit wyatt listens to me i don't take his shit and she started dying laughing and then i kind of started laughing because she was laughing and i knew she was laughing for a reason and then she couldn't even catch her breath she's laughing laughing that hard. As in like calling you out, saying you both take his shit? Yeah, like she started laughing as I said I don't take his shit in a way of like, oh my God, I can't believe you just said that. Like, abs hurting. I'm laughing. I don't even know what's coming out of her mouth next. And she's like, he suckered you in the back of the head today.

And I forgot. I had forgot. I told him go upstairs. We have a calm chair for him. That's the new move. Wyatt, you're not calm calm chair it's just a chair go sit in that chair till you're calm and then usually he comes down it'll take 15 minutes and he's up there in the chair you rude dad you make me mad you make me mad at you dad you're rude i'm pissed off at you saying pissed off i'm like what the hell's going he's been calling me ryan no ryan

i'm like it's dad motherfucker but so so just like just thinking that i'm sitting there like he doesn't take my shit you don't give it to him and then she just like he suck rider was never like that right rider is a sweetheart no no buddy rider is like he's following directions he's making sure you're not upset they are they are he trying to. Is he trying to tell Squanto, like, hey, cool it, buddy, or you're being a little bit much, or does he not say anything to Squanto? He's petrified of him. I had to say, this kid's three years younger than you, buddy. He's pounding on you.

Like, you have to legit grab. Now I'm at the point where I'm like, punch him in the face. And, buddy, there was a recent time. He goes from a calm chair to a boxing him in the face and buddy there was a recent time goes from a calm chair to a boxing ring in the basement Wyatt Wyatt is so nuts this kid he was at a we had a pool party like right around Memorial Day and he saw one of my good friend my good friend's son show up who's a year younger than him and he had a cup and I watched him and he was at the other end of the pool as the kid walked in the pool area. And he filled up the cup with water, and he walked down fast.

I'm like, what is he doing? And he just throws the cup of water in the kid's face and hits the poor kid right in the nose with the cup. And I grabbed him, and I dragged him upstairs, and I put him down in the bathroom, and I filled up a cup of water, and I buried him in the face with it. You know what he did? I was like, that'll teach him. You know what he did? He just wiped the water off his face and looked at me like this i don't care i'm like what do i do with this kid i used to be petrified

of my dad right that's rider rider gets petrified if i get mad and this kid doesn't give a shit so it's been amazing though it's been an awesome week give me the soap give me the soap bitch yeah he's like, pussy. So, yeah, that's just been the two to three kids, though. That's kind of what I'm going at. If you're having a third, I'm so happy for you. You're going to be amazed at the love within the family and of the other two kids to the baby. But it's a grind for a couple months at least. So we're in the middle of that.

But it's a great place to be for a grind. You get to drive on. You get to drive on beaches, biz. So just letting the airs out of the tire and then just shooting on the beach. How often are you seeing Jans? I haven't seen him once. Jans has so much family here. And he also has other friends from Florida visiting.

So we're going to get together this week. But before we continue, I do need, because I forgot to mention that this podcast is presented by New Amsterdam's own Pink Whitney Vodka. So it's been a special week of celebration. Biz, you already mentioned at the Stampede, it was ripping through the bars there. Down in Nantucket, I've seen it at some of the liquor stores. I saw a couple empty nips. I pick them up. I feel responsible.

I appreciate you buying the nips, but if you're going to buy them, don't throw them down on the ground. So if I see Pink Whitney, I'm picking up that trash and throwing it away. But it is the drink of the summer. It is the drink of the season, of the golf course, of the lake. The big old bottle is my favorite. It's been lasting in our house for over a week now, the 1.75 liter. So because of New Amsterdam and because of Pink Whitney, we're able to do many of the special trips and content pieces that we do do,

including sandbaggers. So shout out New Amsterdam, shout out Pink Whitney, and shout out all you guys who do drink it. We appreciate it. Biz, a couple signings kind of came in late. I would say maybe you have a different opinion that the Victor Hedman extension, a must need for Tampa Bay Lightning fans. After what they saw happen with Stammer being gone and now on the Predators, it's like we need some good news because that fan base, I they're super excited about genzel but the fact that stammer's gone was crushing for them did you get what i meant though by like trying a new piece in there yes where you're playing like for the next

three years at least like could stammer not have produced for for a way cheaper rate i guess if you're looking long term but as far as the headmanman signing goes, I think when Sergeyev was gone, the writing was on the wall that Hedman was going to sign an extension. And more than likely, would you assume he's going to be named captain? Yes. He's going to be the next captain of Tampa Bay Lightning.

So I thought it was a pretty good deal for the Tampa Bay Lightning. I think $8 million is fair. I like the fact that they went and got McDonough back because I think he helps out a lot of areas defensively from that number one defense role. He's the shot blocker, the guy you can count on when the goalie's pulled and you're on there killing the six on five

or whether it's a big penalty kill. So I think with the offense he provides and everything else, I think eight million is exactly where he should have ended up and tampa locks in one of their one of their big d guys and and one of their main pieces to the core and probably deflects a little bit of attention away from the whole stamko situation in which um after talking to more people at stampede man it it was uh it was a it was pretty cutthroat dealings with with steven stamk. My understanding with is he was willing to take an eight year deal at $4 million per year. And,

and they gave that eight year times three and he came back with just add another million. And they said, no million. I heard it was eight times four was he was like, yeah, I'll come back and for $4 million a year on an eight year deal. And that wasn't available to him.

So listen, I thought I was getting pretty good information from the people that I was talking to. Maybe that's a rumor boy's comment, and I'm being inaccurate, and Breezeball would turn that down, where he would have signed the eight times four in a heartbeat. But if that's the case, man, that just means they didn't want his services anymore, and it was time to move on. And that just means they didn't want his services anymore,

and it was time to move on. And, yeah, I guess I'm just really shocked about how it all played out. And I don't know what the relationship was like in the locker room between everyone, but this just reeks of more of a story to it than we know. Yeah, definitely. I think there's some things that maybe the public and ourselves will never even really know about how it all went down. But some severe disappointment you could tell on Stamkos' side of it, at least as it was going down.

And now it's like you let a couple days, you let a couple weeks go by, and all of a sudden I'm a Nashville Predator. I'm moving to one of the coolest cities in the country, and I'm on a team that has some big aspirations this year so I know we went over that last week the headband signing for me I thought it was a great deal I've read some of the Pasha analytics you know that idiot loves the analytics yeah apparently his defensive play isn't right once once was but he produces points at a crazy clip like he is a true number one offensive defenseman who with the size of him he's still to me in his own zone fine like he's gonna get in the way he's got

a good stick not overly physical doesn't really have to be but the number's not outrageous and you have your next captain it it's a great signing for them because he just runs the power play he's gonna get you you just lock him down for 55 points minimum. It's just kind of how he plays. He's a big body, able to stay healthy, knock on wood for Lightning's fans. And honestly, his shot, it's deceptive, dude. He's able to take a rocket if he has to. But a lot of times he's using that half clapper and it's perfect height for tips.

And then you got with Point and Kucherov and now Gensel. I think that the Lightning could have a very good season. perfect height for tips and then you got with point and and kucherov and now genzel like i i think that the lightning could have a very good season it's just going to be odd at the beginning in the room when you lose a guy who's been there for what 17 years whatever stam coast was there 16 years so it's one of those things that it's like a new step forward and with genzel coming in you know you're getting maybe uh so i'd say like if Stammer's got three more big years in him, you got to think Gensler has five or six almost, where you're getting longer production as opposed to the Stamco Steel if you did sign him eight years.

So I totally get what Breezeball is thinking in that whole deal. It was just shocking. And then to get the Hedman signing, though, I'm more meant for the fan base. Like, all right, we got one of our cornerstones here. We still have those star forwards I'm talking about we still have the big cat in net and we can win another stanley cup and mcdonough going back it's one of those things where i bet you coop was like i miss having this guy on the back end we saw the reason the reason i said that and i i try not to be too critical of the guys especially a guy like like Hedman, right? I don't know if I'm going to eat my words here. It's hard to, I guess, call him a true number one defenseman

because I think you talked about his defensive game and maybe where it's gone over the last couple years and based on all those stats and analytics you do read, and even from an eye test perspective, and from talking to other people where I trust their hockey opinions even more than mine, during those times the last couple years when McDonough was around McDonough was the D-man being put out there in those shutdown situations so usually if you want to be a true number one defenseman it's like if last minute of a game you're probably going to have Kale McCarr on the

ice if you need a power play goal in a big moment on the back end, it's going to be Kale Makar in that situation. So Hedman does provide a lot to a lot of areas, but I think that he was maybe leaking a little bit of oil without the, with, with the absence of McDonough filling in for that defensive aspect. And to be fair, I, I, would you even not say Sergeyev's probably more of a, of a, a number one defenseman than Hedman like based on every like I feel like his skating's a little bit better I feel like he's better one-on-one on closing on guys he obviously has the the offensive upside maybe not much as Hedman but from an overall perspective I guess that's why I was surprised they moved away from Sergachev because I think

you could have brought Hedman Sergeyev and Stamko back on a cheaper number and kept the core back together rather than moving on to Gensel so that's where I was at with the whole Tampa Bay conversation yeah I just think that if if Sergeyev like the injuries that's what scares so many you think they're moving off of him assuming he's never going to be the same based on those two injuries i i can't say that because i you know that that would be unfair for me to put in but i know that injuries are so scary to gms and front office because there are many many times and speaking from somebody who went through it certain injuries but you never are the same now with medicine i disagree because look at

look at trochek tro Trocek broke his leg. And I would have assumed, based on the speed that Trocek has, I would have... I think he was in Florida when he broke his leg. You're thinking, ah, he's getting a little older. He's not the fastest of foot. He just breaks his leg. Let's move off the asset now and get away from it when he's at the top.

Well, look at the year he just had. Look at the playoff he just had with with with New York so I get I I understand what you're saying that there may be like oh you know a couple injuries bad injuries this year let's move off of them and time it properly I don't know man he looks like he's a wolverine you can heal fast and he's gonna have he's gonna be coming back with vengeance he was pissed off and even in that post on Instagram with him and Stammer, it seemed like it fueled a little thing in him. I did see that the start of the NHL season,

I believe it's a triple header that night. Utah has a home game. So I'm very excited to see that team play. Like they added a lot. It's going to be an amazing fan base. The arena is going to be packed. I think Logan Cooley might have one of those big-time pop-off seasons. Army said he saw him skate the other day in Pittsburgh.

He's like, boys, this is a different beast right here. So it's an exciting time for that whole hockey club, considering that's their nickname. And Sergeyev being there, I love that. I love that. I do think that injuries scare the shit out of people. That's all I'll say. And, yes, some guys, it seems like they come back better than ever. You know, Tommy John and baseball used to ruin pitchers. And now like once you get it, you're better than you were before. So I understand what you're saying, but I could see what what Tampa was possibly thinking that. And once again, as you mentioned, you don't know what's going on inside the locker room. Other news that broke since we last talked, considering he's kind of been a big part of the Lunatic Devils fans,

Pasha and Chicklets this season is the Trouba train. And the Trouba train news broke about apparently, like he's not going anywhere because his wife, I believe, G, do you have the exact story? She has one more year in her residency as a doctor? Yeah.

And I mean, at the end of the day he's got a no move clause and part of the reason he probably got that was because his wife is is you know trying to become a doctor at nyc so this stuff can get tricky man like a lot of a lot of people are just like well no he's the man of the household he's playing in the nhl making the money it's just like what he say goes it's like like, ah, that's not how it works. It ain't 1963 anymore, buddy. I mean, your wife runs your show. I mean, you know more than anyone.

Happy wife, happy life. I just think it's amazing. It is amazing to me. And I tweeted out that Rangers fans seem to be handling the offseason really well. And by really well, I mean goddamn lunatics. Pasha made that ridiculous video in which we told him probably didn't need to bring the wife into it in terms of talking about her job and the concussions.

True, but it might be doling out to people. Well, Rangers fans went nuts as well. You're talking about a guy's wife, you motherfucker, Pasha, which is great any time you call him a motherfucker. That warms my heart. But then all of a sudden it comes out that he won't be waving his no-move clause and will be a part of the Rangers next year because of his wife. And they're online gunning after the wife that they were protecting prior to Pasha.

They all turned into Pasha. Seriously. Exactly. A bunch of Pashas running around Manhattan, bitching about a guy's wife. And Biz, you said it right off the start. A no-move clause, you are lucky enough and good enough to get one of those in your contract.

Then, buddy, you have every right in the world to decide if you don't want to go anywhere. That's your deal, bud. And Rangers fans can be pissed off, but as you already said, it's a family thing. His wife's there. He's not going anywhere. By the way, I think that Chris Drury,

he didn't sign him to the deal, right? So that's another aspect of this where people are pissed off about prior moves and prior signings. And you kind of see that as a GM comes in, a lot of times you see a new coach, you see new training staff, you see certain players that as a GM comes in a lot of times you see a new coach you see new training staff you see certain players that they're not necessarily thrilled with and I don't

think Chris Drury all of a sudden is like we can't win with Jacob Truba but he's coming in and I didn't sign this guy and I think we could probably possibly make some deals to improve our team but at the end of the day he doesn't want to leave he doesn't have to leave that's in his contract so to be that mad at him at Rangers Rangers fans are to be that mad at his wife, that's lunacy. I think they're more bitter at the fact that there was no moves made on signing day. They were one of the teams left holding their dick in their hand. Now, you talk about Drury not signing to the contract.

Do you think he had a hand in in in talking them into naming him captain like my biggest thing is now you're in this situation you have the captain of your team or if he doesn't waive his no move clause what are you doing are you going into next season with the captain of your team with the sea on his on his jersey having asked him to basically move on and leave the team like what do you do here that that's what that's what's going to be tough and and why would you give him a seat if you didn't know didn't think he was going to be around that long i don't know this year was a struggle kind of overall for him and then all of a sudden things change so quick in pro sports in this business but i know

what you're saying i more think for him, if he gets off to a slow start, it's going to be relentless for him. That fan base and in that building and knowing we tried to trade you, we'd be better without you, you're the captain, that's a lot to handle. And I'm sure he's thinking, I got all the pressure in the world on me now.

I need this team to play well. I need to play well. And the minute I don't, the boo birds are going to come out. And as a as a player you got to say fuck the boo birds like you got to just go out and play but to try to say it doesn't affect guys and maybe not everyone's the same I went through it it affects you and and now that there's like this like vitriol towards him and his family like over a deal that he didn't want to have to sign off on and he didn't sign off on it's didn't sign off on

it's like pretty simple in my mind but the whole captain aspect that's where you're going to need and i've talked to a couple guys that that love him as a captain there they they thought he did a great job they said he's a great guy so that's where it's more like hey it's us versus everyone else you're our leader you're our guy don't listen to it we got your back you got our back type thing and it's like us versus the world if if they were happy to get off to a slow start and people started giving him the business so it is a tricky situation though anytime you have a guy that has a no move clause and trade possibilities pop up and then the news breaks that like we could have traded you and you decided not to then the fan base they're just out for blood. They're out for blood. And then this involves his wife too, which makes it even more different.

So kind of feel for him a little bit, but let's just hope that the Rangers get off to a good start and he has a good season, and then you see where you go from there. Before we go on to the other signings, the other ones that have trickled in, who are you most disappointed in come free agency? I think New York's name has popped up quite a bit. Are there a few other teams that you most disappointed in come free agency? I think New York's name has popped up quite a bit. Are there a few other teams that you were disappointed in? New York was disappointing.

New York was disappointing. I mean, I look at like Ottawa. I actually think that you go out and get Allmark, and then I think David Perron's a real good signing. I think that's a vet who's won a Stanley Cup, who knows what it takes to win. That's the type of guy you need in there. So they did a pretty good job. Buffalo, did Buffalo do anything? I was a little disappointed. They ended up getting McLeod over there. I was actually okay to see

Edmonton move on from McLeod. So was I. I like his size. I like his speed. But if I'm the Edmonton Oilers, I think you need another Holloway as opposed to another McLeod. They got rid of Fogle and McLeod. I think if you can get another guy who plays the way that Holloway does, you've answered those two questions of replacing those guys. Because I think Holloway really came into his own this season where him in playoffs, I liked the way that he played. That to me is a playoff-style player. Going back to other disappointments, maybe a little bit in L.A.

I guess it was nice that they moved off from Dubois. That was a little disappointing. Winnipeg, but we talk about how hard it is to get free agents, and apparently Ehler's name has came up, so maybe they're trying to work out a big move in the offseason. They have to be very crafty about how they bring guys in. It's not like everybody, the big dogs, are lining up to sign there in the offseason.

And the other team, Carolina, man, you can't tell me the Carolina Hurricanes got better after all the moves they made at the deadline to the disappointment of where they're at now from a team standpoint. You can't tell me they're a better hockey team no i i think that it's going to be a struggle to see what ajo and gencil did together to not have him there and gencil was so good when he came over they did bring over uh that william carrier right and they brought back martinook so a crazy story like mart Martinuk was on waivers, I think, what was it, two years ago maybe.

Now he's getting re-signed as a UFA. So you'll have that line of Stahl, Carrier, and Martinuk pretty sick, third or fourth line, right, depending on where they slot. And I know what you're saying, though. Shea's gone. I mean, they did re-sign, why can't I think of his name, the stud on the back end, Jacob. Jacob Slavin.

Slavin, right? So you got him locked up. But I'm with you, man. There's just some question marks there. And who can get them over the hill? Who can get them from this amazing regular season team to a Stanley Cup winning team? I don't think you're going into this year as positive as you were last year. So I'm with you on that. Another team up north where you just were or are right now, Calgary.

I think Calgary has a chance to be like a bottom three team in the league this season. It looks like it's dark days ahead. And maybe there's an aspect of realizing it's time to kind of retool and rebuild, if you will, before the new arena comes and hoping three, four. And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, get this thing going again. Surprising to me, I don't know what's up because at the draft we heard rumblings about Kadri possibly being moved.

I mean, if he could get moved, I don't know what teams would be willing or have to pay, but that's a guy, if you've got playoff aspirations, bring that fucking lunatic in because he's going to run around Sam Bennett style. I wish the Leafs would bring him back as a second line center.

That was one of the tough ones. I know that he had his issues with the discipline come playoff time, but that was just a sad one to see go, and especially with what he did in Colorado. Like Matthews wasn't where he was at when Caudry was there. Like if it was the Matthews of now, that one-two punch is just like you saw in colorado so yeah a little bit disappointing uh quickly to go back to uh tampa love the akatsun deal like he's a

he's a honey badger right he's a guy looking to prove something he signed a very cheap deal like he came in at like 800 grand 900 900 grand so i think that that's another good signing a good vet to bring in for them um the other one i don't want to say it was shocking because going back to last deadline he was probably the biggest name that was still left on the board it was buchnevich um in in st louis he ends up getting a six-year deal at eight million bucks per um so now all of a sudden they have robert thomas kairu and Bucinavich all locked in at $8 million or eight and change in there.

Not bad. If they can get Kairou and Thomas stepping up to that next level, those are some pretty – Which Thomas did this year. Thomas is a player, dude. He's a player. Actually, he was at Stampede with Chucky, with Matthew Kachuk. I ended up running into him.

No hard feelings. He goes, I had to give him shit, man. That was ridiculous on the ice. And I said, I get it. I understand. But Chucky was so fun and cool about it. I said, I go, I think RA is going to take a little break. He goes, maybe I'll come and host a podcast for a few.

So we're not dead with the Brady, Matthew Kachuk sandbag with Merles and Keith Kachuk in the drink cart? I think that it's still on the table. I think it's still on the table. Maybe we bring in R.A. for one hole, one hole only. So it was good to see them. They were there with a bunch of their local buddies, and holy shit, what a run that Matthew Kachuk's been on

after diving in the ocean with the Stanley Cup 10 times and gas and beers there for a week, and then off to the Stampede to gas even more. So that Robert Thomas is built like a brick shithouse, dude. Oh, I saw him in Vegas. He's a tank. He's got sausage fingers. His hands are bigger than mine. Tank.

But just going back to that Bucinavich thing, there was rumblings that he was going to be one of the guys moved at the deadline, but I don't think they ever got an offer where they felt like they were getting value back. So they held on to him. They stayed patient. So I think a pretty good foundation for St. Louis to kind of start this rebuild and get back to where they were. We've always talked about how when they got rid of Petro and they didn't re-sign him, they overthought that, and that was kind of the beginning of the end for that era.

Well, let's see if they can kind of rejuvenate things with the Blue Note. Another guy in St. Louis you've got to mention is Jake Neighbors. I mentioned I played golf with him. I met him too. He was in town for a Bauer event in Boston, and we played old school. And he plays that way too. He'll hit, he'll fight, he scores. That's a young, great player that the Blues have coming up.

So right there, that's another sign. In terms of teams that I was very surprised with, a little bit maybe disappointed with, Pittsburgh comes to mind. Now we can get into the fact that apparently Crosby and Pittsburgh are pretty close or right around the end of finalizing. What a fucking waste. What a fucking waste.

What a fucking waste. This team is vanilla. I hate the Pittsburgh Penguins lineup. I hate it, Whit. To miss the playoffs and know you have, say, well, Cross, he's got one more year, and then he's going to maybe sign a three-year deal, I'm hearing. It's like, oh, what else can you do?

What else can you do what else can you do and they actually let Pierre uh is it P.O. Joseph Pierre Oliver Joseph I'm messing up his name but he's over in St. Louis now with his brother Matthew I kind of surprised that I mean I don't know defense and they can move the puck skate I I know he's not an amazing player but just an odd offseason Detroit a little upsetting I know Kane came back. They added Tarasenko, I think, at four and a half times two. So two years at nine million. Nice deal.

Stanley Cup winner. Two times Stanley Cup winner. So that'll help. Tyler Mott signed in Detroit. But I think that they were maybe hoping for a little bit more there. Make a little bit more noise. So kind of surprising there. And then what was the other team?

Oh, I had to mention. a little bit more noise, so kind of surprising there. And then what was the other team? Oh, oh, I had to mention. Let's go back to the Crosby thing. You think they're just going to pay him what a McDavid would make, or you still think he's going to take a hometown discount? If you're Sid, what's the reason to take a hometown discount now? I don't think Pittsburgh's going to make playoffs again, third year in a row. I'd be shocked if he signs a three-year deal,

I'd be shocked if they made playoffs one of those years, the way that that team's looking. They got no prospects. That's the problem. They got no prospects coming in. Grislick signed there. I was happy for him. One-year deal in Pittsburgh. BU guy.

People on the internet, you're reading it'd be like three times ten which is nuts i know you mentioned he should take up 20 of the cap and just get his exactly what he's worth maybe he's looking at it as he always has looked at it like take a little less and hopefully we could figure something out and something comes to fruition here and our team's able to i don't know how they would go on a run. Fuck you, pay me. Grinelli said last season that there was no chance they were close to a Stanley Cup contender. That turned out to be true, considering they didn't even get in the playoffs.

And then now you're looking at this year like, oh, David Quinn goes over there as an assistant coach with Mike Sullivan. So you have a guy who's been a head coach that helps. So maybe coaching makes that much of a difference. They look like they could be brothers. Obviously, Dave being the better looking one. But I mean, not a ricochet shot towards Sullivan at all. I don't think he's a bad looking guy or anything.

But I think Quinn. Quinn, he's like Jon Hamm. Yeah, he's got the Jon Hamm look going. The hell of a look to have. What up, guys? It's Witt. And we need to talk about Cremo. Cremo shaving cream. After a hard day, everyone out there, you know what I'm talking about, guys. You just want to take a shower and

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wanting to be a part of your life. You can find Cremo Men's Body Wash in its new distinctive bourbon vanilla scent at Walmart or Walmart.com. Once again, that's at Walmart or Walmart.com. What again, that's at Walmart or Walmart.com. What other signings? I know we're bouncing around. Yeah, we are bouncing around, guys. You don't have the host, and we're doing this on the fly.

So for me and Biz hosting here, bear with us, obviously. Our brains usually kind of bounce around in all these different directions. So we are working through this, I'll say. Quickly going back to Detroit, though, I think that fans there different directions so we are working working through this i'll say you just stand quickly going back to detroit though i think that fans there are getting a little bit impatient with the eiser plan you feel that do you get that sense yes yes what do you what do you think what's the window here how much time till he has to get things cooking again if they don't make playoffs next year do you think he's on the clock? If they don't make playoffs this upcoming season,

you're going to see some loud, loud fans be like, what's going on here? What is the Iser plan? Where are things going? You just got to hope that Edmondson comes in and turns into a really good defenseman right away. It's so hard for somebody to do that at their rookie year. Sider takes another leap forward. I mean, I don't know. Like Dylan Larkin has kind of proven that that's an amazing deal they got him signed for.

If you remember, we thought it was maybe a little bit of an overpay. And he this year, besides the times he was injured, was dominating. So that's a guy that you think can kind of really take another step forward and become like a top 15, 20 player in the NHL. I don't know if it's possible, but they're going to need these prospects to take these huge leaps. They're going to need goaltending to be figured out. I know they got that monster that we talked about and it was on the Oil Kings that you

saw in person that you were impressed with. But the Iser plan, while people have trust still, are probably people are now thinking like, well, what's going on? Like, oh, we need the Detroit Red Wings to turn back into hockey town. And also you remember at, during that run at the end of the building was alive. They were loving life. They thought they might squeak in, just barely missed out on the last game of the regular season or whatever it was. And if you come out this year and once again, around Christmas time, you're, you're fighting for the last playoff spot. It's like, when are we going to make the leap to be possibly competing to win our division and things

like that so i think that is it eight years out of the playoffs right now i think it might be i think this would be nine years they went over 20 in a row and then all of a sudden they're starting a new streak the other way um it kind of go it kind of goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning of last season like who's going to be the team to take the next step is it going to be ottawa buffalo or detroit we're right back where we started none of those teams made playoffs do you like what ottawa did compared to what detroit did yes yes you think ottawa is the best of the three buffalo buffalo to me is Buffalo, to me, they might be the exact same again. I'm interested to see how the Bo Byram and that 4D men situation works out with a full season at hand.

They got a different look on that back end coming into the season. I thought that, what's the goalie's name? Pekka Lukkanen or something? Yeah. He had an incredible back half of the season, and then they have Devin Levi there. So I think that their goaltending in the future is looking good. Their back end is very youthful, and they can move the puck,

and they're mobile. They got all the tools. It's just like it goes back to the being a little too vanilla up front. They got all that skill, but who are the – like the David Perron pickup, like you mentioned earlier, for Ottawa, that's kind of the guy you need in Buffalo. You need the piece of shit in front of the net. You need the guy who's not going to be intimidated going in. You need the guy who's going to throw a reverse hit.

Like David Perron is a perfect playoff style player. So they need more of that in Buffalo. That's my only critique of them. They need some Florida Panthers. We've been saying it forever. I just think that Buffalo fans, they don't deserve this. They don't deserve to have any sort of record involved with the New York Jets. That's when you start saying, like, what the hell are we doing here?

We're compared to the New York Jets. That's disaster. That's a nightmare. I mean, I think that, oh, actually, Savoy, the guy we got from McLeod in Edmonton, I like that move, dude. Guy just crushed the WHL last year. I think Moose Jaw won the WHL, played well in Rochester for a little bit last year. I think that's a great move for the Oilers. You don't really need McLeod. And yes, you lose some speed, but they have so much speed. They can give a little up. I don't know if Savoy will be in that lineup.

I doubt it this year. But at least you bring in a high pick who's able to produce points. It's somebody who could maybe in a couple years be playing on a top line. Now, I don't know. The Leon question, apparently his agent came out and pretty much said, it seems like we want a deal done by the end of August, which I understand. That makes total sense for the agent to say that, want to have this thing locked up. That sounds to me like he's very willing to resign.

And this whole Grinnelli, Dreisaitl to Boston rumor can finally be put to bed. But the agent getting out there and saying we want to get it done. I think Jeff Jackson, who stood in in Edmonton to be the GM. You might get a statue. Buddy, this guy put on a clinic for the Oilers. I mean, he has done amazing work, so much so that Oilers fans just stay on as GM, but he doesn't want to do that. So they're going to make a hiring at some point, and then you're able to kind of see

the Leon deal hopefully take shape. But here's the quote, actually, from Leon's agent. There's no rush yet, but either it happens quickly by the end of August or it doesn't work out at all. It will also become clear whether Edmonton really wants him or not. Leon holds all the trump cards. Pretty powerful statement. None of it isn't true.

This guy, he's a top player in the league. Edmonton wants him. They're going to have to probably pay him $14 million a season. Wow, you think he's getting $14 i do i do i think that every single time a player like this comes along it's a little higher than the player before him the best player before him you look at matthews you look at uh all these deals that guys sign and leon is that good and he's not only that good in the regular season he's even better in the playoffs. Do you think he's better than Matthews? I've actually had this discussion before.

Would you rather have Matthews or Leon? And I've said Leon. I've almost started leading the other way because Matthews doesn't have McDavid on his team, and he scores more, and he's just so good defensively where I think sometimes Leon can maybe just take a little bit of a shift here or there off defensively. So what is Matthews?

13.25? Yeah, in there. Yeah, but you know how this works, dude. The next best player. No, I get it. I was just kind of asking you because, I mean. Would you take Matthews? I would probably take Matthews for the simple fact you just mentioned.

Imagine having a one-two punch in the middle of the ice of McDavid and Matthews. Because Dreisaitl, sometimes he hops up on the wing with McDavid. I don't know if people might carve me up for this because of more underlying numbers, but I think that Matthews is a better centerman than Dreisaitl. Overall, from a defensive perspective, from a goal-scoring perspective, maybe he doesn't have the playmaking ability, but Matthews is a guy who takes the rock to the house himself. And he can make plays, but it's just not his thing, right?

I think this year he had under 40 assists this year. And as a center, there are some fans who'd much rather have a puck distributor. I can't even talk right now, dude. No, it's okay. We're Muppets. But I think that some people want a guy who can dish it. And I think players around the league have often said Leon is the best passer in the NHL or at times can be the best passer.

He's got a bubble hockey stick. As a center, is that what you'd rather have? It's a great argument. I think Matthews defensively probably makes him a little bit more valuable. And it would be a dream scenario for Leon to sign for the same numbers Matthews did. I just don't think he will. Partly because it's Edmonton. You got to pay a little bit more.

And partly because that's how it goes. And the cap's going to be going up and up, and he looks like this is what I'm worth. Put it this way. Somebody's going to pay him that. So if you want Edmonton to keep him, you're going to have to do it. I wouldn't mind it. The other thing about Leon is the playoff numbers are that amazing

that you're just left shaking your head a little bit. Like this guy's a, an incredible player all regular season and somehow becomes even better in the playoffs. Yes. People will talk about a little bit of the struggle at the end of the playoffs this year, battling injury as everyone was,

but wasn't as dominant, like two points per game self in the final two rounds compared to, uh, you know, every other series he's ever played in the NHL, including when he was playing with a sprained ankle. So we'll see what happens with that one. But the other one I had to mention was the Panthers re-signing Lundell. And he got a six-year deal. Where is it right here? Five years at $6 million per year. Sorry about that. I knew it was $30 million.

And that's a nice signing. And I know he's not like a top two line player right now. Maybe he grows into that. If he does, then you're really laughing. But with what he did on that line, on that third checking shutdown line in Florida the past two seasons, and being as young as he is, that's a hell of a contract for Bill Zito to get signed. I thought it was Luster Ryden the year before that stood out to me as kind of that next wave of forward coming in in Florida. I thought Lundell, though, really stood out this playoffs, especially as you mentioned that third line center.

And I don't know how many years Sam Bennett has left on his deal. Right now you got Barkov, Bennett, and Lundell. So getting him in at that $6 million tag, let's say they're unable to re-sign Bennett when he's up in a few years I feel like he's a guy eventually that could take over that second line center role he's got the size he's got the speed he's got that offensive ability um learning under that system and under Barkov you know that he's going to be more and more responsible defensively as years go on so I uh I love it and actually I think it's next year. Is Sam Bennett's last year of his deal. So you looked at where they had to go. Spend their money to address their issues.

Going into next season. To try to repeat. Probably a big reason is how they didn't have money. To re-sign all of Reckman Larson. And then all of a sudden they go get a guy like Nate Schmidt. At a hometown discount. So to speak. At $800,000.

From my understanding. Oliver wasn't being offered, like I think it might have been half of what he ended up getting in Toronto. So they're trying to squeeze every penny right now, but I think that Lundell is a guy that definitely deserved to get paid looking forward, and he kind of becomes a member of that core as they move on from um uh uh what's his name the defenseman to montour yeah uh a couple people aren't signed yet one of them that sticks out is this daniel sprung who over the last two years has 40 goals and 90 points

he had a boy he had a big year last year in detroit didn't he? Yeah, where was it? It was Detroit. He was in Seattle. And then he went to Detroit. I think he was in Detroit last year, wasn't he? Yes. Yeah, so he had two years ago in Seattle, 21 goals, 46 points. This year in Detroit, 18 goals, 43 points.

So a bunch of – like I don't know what he wants, but it seems like some of these guys, what happens is in free agency, you think you're going to get a couple deals offered. And all of a sudden, you don't. Things dried up, and you're looking at one-year deals. And now maybe like – and I know nothing about Daniel Sprung. I'm just thinking out loud. Like do you hear something about his character? Do you hear something about his work ethic?

It's like all of a sudden, all these GMs and all these coaches are talking, and it's just surprising for me that he hasn't signed yet. Maybe he's holding out for what he wants in terms of like a bigger deal with maybe a little bit more term. But if you could go grab him, dude, some of these teams you're looking – like I don't know. Buffalo, he couldn't fit in there. I don't think he's playing Florida Panthers-style hockey the way we're talking about they need,

but it's a guy who could produce 20 goals for a team who needs to score. Well, I just think the way that the hard cap set up, you see these guys getting these big tickets, and then there's kind of like the separation, and teams hoping maybe they can lock in a guy like that for a few million, but he's probably looking at other guys who got 20 goals being like, come on, man, where's my payday?

I mean, I know Tarasenko's got a couple Stanley Cups, but he just got four and a half in Detroit. How many goals did Tarasenko have last year? Did he have more than Sprong? I mean, so there's a decent list of guys that are going to arbitration. Is Sprong one of those guys? No, I think he's ufa maybe i'm wrong but martin nietzsche is going to to um arbitration arbitration ryan lingman's going to arbitration now you just hope as we've always said that those kind of get fixed up before the arbitration who

was telling us who was telling us in vegas about uh an arbitration hearing that they heard was nightmare fuel i think about i think it was someone oh this is gonna drive me crazy small cock bad breath type shit oh yeah the small hog can't last more than 10 seconds doesn't brush his teeth has terrible bo bad wife's wifeipes a disaster in the wife's lounge. Just creating drama. Kids are ugly. Yeah, the whole arbitration thing can get gross. The Neches thing is bizarre because it seems like,

from what I've been told, he's made it clear he doesn't want to be in Carolina anymore. No trades have come to fruition. And he was a part of that deal where Pedersen was possibly going to go to Carolina before he resigned with Vancouver. So I don't know what's going on with there. He obviously doesn't like his ice time. You would have to think, though, that next year he would be playing more, a little bit more power play time. Maybe it was the Swayman arbitration hearing that I think was kind of nightmare fuel. When Grinnell, you hear anything about what if he might resign?

I'm hearing right now it's not going too great. Oh, boy. But what I've heard is nothing would get done until the end of August. But I'm hearing it's not going too good. All right. Well, that's the man who told you the Pittsburgh Penguins were not a Stanley Cup threat. He's on his game.

And maybe right now Swayman's thinking about that hearing and thinking about what was said about him. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I do know I would never want to be a part of arbitration. Imagine me in arbitration, Biz. This fucking guy can't even walk. You'd be easy to pick apart. They make me take

my shirt off. Show him that body. Show him that. Judge. Judge, you're trying to tell me I gotta pay this guy 3 million bucks a year? He's got a spare tire and tits. He's got tits, Judge Edo. I don't know.

You're a clown. You're a fucking clown. We got a few other ones to talk about here. This is the free agent still available. You said Sprung. Tyson Berry, if you're looking for an offensive defenseman to snap things around, I thought it would be a perfect landing spot in Chicagoago get him on that power play with badar i mean he's played with he's played with mcdavid he's played with mckinnon he's led some of the

best power plays in the league over the last 10 years i don't see a reason why you try to get him on a one-year deal and hopefully he can kind of re-establish his game back in the nhl after all that bullshit last year uh with the nashville predators um there's also a rumor boys here trevor's egress to possibly going to buffalo now that came over the wire here from grinnell grinnell where are you hearing this that is not what buffalo needs i hear it in the streets biz i that's why that's where i hear i hear the streets and people are saying that though that is a rumor that's out there that Trevor Zegers' name is heating up right now, and Buffalo is one of the potential top suitors. I agree with you, Whit.

I think that they're skilled out to the max. They got to get some sandpaper in there. So unless he's chucking the weights this summer and getting in there and maybe doing some UFC training, maybe he's toughening up ready to get in the corners just train train with juice bx kevin bx go meet up with him in newport just take a couple beatings i mean i did like the ducks bringing over robbie fabry i know we've talked a lot about what that guy's been through and how we got to know him for our brief stint at st louis blues camp as the jesters he actually has been through and how we got to know him for our brief stint at St. Louis Blues Camp as the Jesters.

He actually has been through so many different brutal injuries, all with his knee, that to see him kind of come back, play well, and now he's going to get to go over to Anaheim with all the prospects they have and be able to maybe find a role there as a leader. He's been around a long time now, dude. We were at that camp 10 years ago, Biz, for Christ's sake. So happy for him. Maybe play a little bit more in Anaheim, but that was an interesting deal. been around a long time now dude we were at that camp 10 years ago biz for christ's sake so happy for him maybe play a little bit more in anaheim but that was an interesting deal i think the ducks do want to get some veteran leadership in there i know they got cologne but get as much as you can to teach all these young bucks how to play the game the correct way um heartbreaking news for me

but also very very happy for macklin celebrini who decided to leave BU and sign with the San Jose Sharks. I don't know if you saw some of the clips that came out of the development camp. He was just tooling with people. I mean, maybe one of those things where he wasn't exactly sure. And being the first overall pick adds a little bit of pressure to get to the NHL right away. But then to go to that camp and dominate the way he did, he probably felt like this is where I want to be. I'm ready for this. And development camp is nothing like training camp in the NHL will be.

But to put on the team's uni and just to be a part of the facility with the staff, it's just a feeling of excitement. And he was ready to make that next step. And I'm so happy for him getting to know him. I hope everyone enjoyed the interview. I thought it was a very, very mature interview for somebody who turned 18 about two weeks ago. I mean, we can't even

talk now. I'm 41. And this kid's 18, becoming the first overall pick, face of a franchise. And he's talking to us like he's played in the league for 15 years, but not in a cocky way. So I'm very happy for him. It just sucks. BU still has a great team next year, Biz.

Big time team. They got Lane Hudson's brother coming in, Cole, who was drafted, I believe, in the second round. So exciting times, but it's just a killer to lose the Hobie Baker winner. I was hoping for one more. I think you sent out a tweet about it. And Leonard, who was drafted by the Washington Capitals, I want to say eighth or ninth overall last year.

It seems like given the amount of pressure he's facing because they want to sign him, he's still going to elect to go back to school for a second year. You think that it's vital in the growth of these players to go back to school for one more year. So probably, like you said, a little surprised that he did end up signing in San Jose, probably feeling a little bit of that pressure. But what did you mean by all that, and why do you think that second year is just so much more important? I did say in the tweet that there are some serious outliers. Jack Eichel is somebody who really had no business going back.

I get it. And for the same argument, the same argument could be made for Celebrini. But there are so many players who are in such a rush to get to the NHL that forget that. And I've said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And all these kids, these high end top picks that are dominated college one year and think I'm ready to move on,

which is a legit statement. It's like dominate at a level before you think about going to the next level. A lot of these guys like Ryan Leonard, if he turned pro, nobody would blink an eye. But my thing is, you're going to have all these years to play hockey. You're going to have all this money you're going to make. And it's more about looking at it today. And I'm going to go back to school. Not only am I going to go back to school and be stronger physically as the year ends,

because the amount of weightlifting that's done in college, just playing on Friday and Saturdays, it's one of those things where throughout the season you're getting stronger, you're getting bigger, you're getting quicker where you get to pro hockey, dude. That is not the case. It is a war of attrition. You're getting depleted. If you're in the AHL, which some of these kids won't be,

but even if you are, it's like it's bus rides. And yes, the argument of learning, learning how to be a pro and learning how to play the pro style game and learning how to be able to handle that many games in a season is very valid. But to be 20 years old, 19 years old, it's like, buddy, you're not, you're not only going back to school to get stronger, faster, and develop more, some of the weaker parts of your games. You're going back to enjoy the time of your life.

It is the greatest thing in the world playing college hockey. You're living with your buddies. You're living with all these girls. You don't really have to do much school. I hate to break it to everyone. You got to pass the clearing house to get in and then you got to keep your GPA, whatever. Guys, you'll be able to figure it out. It's not that difficult.

You're playing in front of amazing atmospheres, the college rinks, the fan bases, the Friday, Saturday, having Sunday off with your buddies. It's just something where it's such an amazing time in your life that I understand the rush and I understand the want to be in NHL. And there's also a big aspect of seeing the guys that you were drafted with already playing pro hockey that makes you kind of like, well, what am I doing here? I'm missing out. I'm missing out. It is going to be a long, long career for so many of these guys. I'm talking the high-end big dogs. I'm talking the Ryan Leonards.

And I talked to his agent, Matt Cater, who we're friends with, and he worded it perfect. He's like, what's the rush? The other aspect that Bucciaross has mentioned before is all these guys, you're in the NHL next season. Yeah, maybe for five games at the end of the year. If you go to the final Frozen Four, maybe it's two, three, four games. Who knows?

If you're good enough, you could hop into the playoffs if your team's a playoff team. But if you're not in the Frozen Four, you're getting 10 NHL games, 10, 15 NHL games. So it's not like you're not playing until the following season. Right when the season ends, you're going to be able to go and sign and just enjoy that one more year of college before this becomes a job. And I hate saying that because it is the greatest job in the world playing professional sports. I don't care what league you're talking about, but it's a job. And the pressures that come with it and the anxiety that you can have when you're not playing

well and the lack of development because you get to the nhl it's not a developmental league dude these people are not there to really work with you day in and day out post-practice pre-practice that stuff happens but it's more a win now league and they're putting lineups up that can give them the best chance to win in college there is skill development there is so much more that goes into it because of the fewer amount of games you play that you could come out a better player than you would have been that year and it's like all of a sudden maybe I'm ready to step in the NHL and I don't need that season in the AHL because my sophomore year in college was what would have been my AHL season I got stronger stronger. I got better with the puck. I made a weakness into a strength because of all the ice time I had practicing.

It just, to me, it just goes back to the marathon. Also, even in some cases, you might even go through a little bit of a slump. And how are you going to work your way out of that in your second year, right? Sometimes things aren't as easy come the second time around. So I'm interested to see if they take the approach like they did with stamkos with some of these guys and kind of like leo carlson where they're playing half the games and and you talked about getting in the weight room and getting stronger that that is a massive component from for some of these kids who whose bodies haven't developed fully so uh very interesting to see how it all plays out.

Do you think that Leonard will stay strong and not end up signing? Has he confirmed, like, there's no way it's happening? I was told no matter what, he's going back. Now, it's one thing if all of a sudden Oshie's done playing and the team comes, like, please. That's another aspect where a lot of times it's not necessarily, like, it is the kid's decision. But when you have a GM who's drafted you, drafted you like hey i want you here right now it's very hard to go against

that it's similar to the way that like you know it's it's your it's your future boss it's like oh i don't want to say no what if i piss him off blah blah but if you're good enough bud if you're good enough anyone listening you're gonna play and you're gonna play for a long time and that one year that you decided to leave all your buddies at school and kind of miss out on some crazy magic, you could end up regretting it. Maybe you don't. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass. I stayed three years and I knew I wasn't ready after my freshman year. First off, I wasn't ready at all. And then after my sophomore year, I was kind of injured and I wasn't ready again. And then junior year, I did dominate and I knew it was time to step to that next level but I got three of my most fun years playing hockey

ever with all my buddies so the other thing about Leonard is I think he really wants to captain the world junior team try to go back to back that's something that you really appreciate I think as a Washington Capitals front office person it's like this kid wants to be with the team he's at they they they came up they came up a little short right they had that national championship game and they lose Will Smith but they bring in James Haggins who might have a better freshman year than Will Smith did he led the fucking country in scoring so they're bringing in a superstar that's another thing where Leonard's like I'm not taking a step back I'm bringing in a probably the first overall pick next summer

and our team's not going to miss a beat. So there's many different things, and I'm not saying by turning pro it's the wrong decision. Not at all. Some kids are ready. Some kids are willing to. I think Lashunov with Chicago also left Michigan State. That was a little bit more expected. But I don't know.

It's a good discussion, and I think that agents and parents and my wife actually asked me because I told her Celebrini left. She's like, is that something that's completely up to like you as a kid or your parents kind of? And I was like, I think it's just a family discussion. I think that if parents were like, no, you're not going, the kid can still go. He's 18 years old. But most of the time you'd think with how close these people are with their parents because of what they've done for them to become the players they are, that they would listen to family members and the agent. And don't forget, too, like some of these GMs, they want to bring guys in because they need it.

They need a juice of life. Like Mike Greer is looking at this like I need Celebrini to be here. I need some reason for people to buy tickets and buy jerseys and come to the game. tickets and buy jerseys and come to the game. So you almost wonder if it's pressure from management or from ownership on management to get it done so they can sell some more

fucking hot dogs. Because the Shark Tank as unreal as it was when I was playing there during their heydays when they had that, what, it was like about 15 years of sustained dominance where they'd be winning their division and could never get it done in playoffs, mind you, but unreal barn to plan.

One of the loudest and one of the hardest to get going off the starts. First period, they just dumb you. But Witt, speaking of special players, I think it's about time we throw it over to our guest, guys. His resume speaks for itself. Six Stanley Cups.

The only person to captain two NHL teams to a Stanley cup in NHL history. Is that a fact? Yep. So without further ado, guys, the moose Mark Messier. What up guys?

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because NetSuite lives in the cloud with no hardware required, access from anywhere. You cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you've got one unified business management suite and you improve efficiency by bringing all of your major business processes into one platform, Thank you. head to netsuite.com slash chicklets netsuite.com slash chicklets one more time to save time and save money with your business it's netsuite n-e-t-s-u-i-t-e dot com slash chicklets wow it's an absolute honor and a pleasure to welcome this guest to the show this gritty skilled center was taken by the always in the third round of the 1979 NHL Draft, and his 12 NHL seasons here in Edmonton, he won five Stanley Cups, a Kahn-Smythe Trophy, a Hart Trophy, and a Pearson Award. His next stop, Manhattan, resulted in a sixth Stanley Cup, the first in New York in 54 years, by the

way. Shout out the Rangers, as well as another hot trophy and another passing trophy. In 2007, he was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame as the second all-time NHL playoff point, third all-time NHL point. The boys cannot be happier talking to the Spin Chicken podcast. Mark fucking Messi. Yay!

All right! All right! All right! Come on for oxygen. Nailed it. All right. I said it all, man. Well, that's it. That's our hour. Thanks right. All right. Come on for oxygen. Nailed it. All right. I said it all, man. Well, that's it.

That's our hour. Thanks for coming, guys. Yeah, but there's bad news. He told me before. If he doesn't mention I'm the only captain to bring two teams to the Stanley Cup, I'm going to fucking bury this guy. That's another thing. The only man to captain two Stanley Cup champions on different teams.

Thank you for joining. Great to be here, you guys. It's amazing. Amazing to be here. How's it feel being back in the broadcast? I felt pressure to be here because my sons, both sons, Lion and Douglas, are big fans of the show, so they kept saying, why are you going

on spitting chiclets? I go, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, so here I am. That's great. That's how we get some of the older legends. Best recruits. I'm telling you, they all listen. It's crazy. This is their favorite show. Great to hear. Great to hear.

So how often do you come back to Edmonton? Do you frequent? Is it half of the cup? Tell us. I try to get back at least once a year. I've got so many family, extended family, not immediate family, but extended family, and, of course, always doing something here for the Oilers or charity

or some kind of business or whatever. So I try to get back as much as I can, but New York's a long way away, as we found out coming home. I thought we were going to Russia by the time we got here. But every time I come back, that drive to the airport, it's amazing. Things have changed, but there's so many things that are still the same from when I played here and grew up here. But it's great to see the city thriving. It's awesome.

Sort of a Pavlovian reaction, like the goose bumps up, like you kind of remember where you were? Well, I don't know if it's from this actual plane for the Oilers or growing up here as a teen. And every time I go past the South Convention Center, going in there as a 16-year-old when the drinking age was 18, being able to get in there and have all that. So that was my first memory every time I come back here,

and it's still there. So good memories. I was thinking, what do you think when you see this rink here now? I call it the megachurch, the Conner-McJesus megachurch that you guys built. Yeah, well, I think he's building this one. He built this one, and all the power to him. No, I think it's amazing. I was here with Kevin when he was running the team

and going through the plans, and he was telling me all about it. They had a long runway about how to plan for it. The dressing room was a big sticking point of how that was going to be designed. The crowd, even way up top with the fan experience, they put a lot of effort into this, a lot of money, a lot of extra money to make the fan experience amazing. I think it's probably one of the best, if not the best arena in the league right now.

Are you like, fuck off, you guys? Like, how do you get this? I loved Rexall for Northlands for you. I am a little envious of the dressing room. I've never been in there. What was it like when you were around? It was pretty good. You had the blue carpet, I remember, on that movie I saw.

Yeah, we had the big blue carpet and a ping pong table in the middle there. But it wasn't quite as, I would have done well with a nice private chef in the dressing room. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would have been a big luxury for me coming in after a long night out. But mess, no beers in the room anymore. Yeah, what happened to that? I don't know. All the protein shakes. Yeah. That happened to that? I don't know. All the protein shakes.

Yeah. That's why they're so fast, though. I remember my brother playing in Colorado for the Rockies, and Bep Gwydlin was giving the team a big speech after a game. They had lost five or six in a row, and he was giving the team, this is not any country club anymore. We're going to start buckling down. And as he's giving the speech, he's swigging a beer,

and it's not going to be a country club anymore. But you're gonna have my beer so it was a light beer we gotta talk boys we used to have beer in the dressing room when we first started yeah it was so when you were growing up here like who was your team like who was your favorite player was it gordy howell who was the wha right at that time well they did come in uh in 72 so that was i remember taking the bus as an 11-year-old kid from Westside to the, back then it was the Edmonton Gardens, and watching the WHA team, the Alberta Oilers, if you guys remember, it was the Alberta Oilers.

And, you know, Bobby Hull was coming and all the great NHLers that kind of led to the WHA. So this was amazing to have pro hockey at that level here in Edmonton. And, of course, then we get the NHL franchise, an outpost in Edmonton, an NHL franchise, and I get drafted there as an Edmonton boy, like born and raised here. It was amazing. Who influenced you as a player?

I mean, you obviously – I always liked – back then I was watching the original six, right? It was all the – for me, it ended up being Boston Bobby Orr. That was my guy. that was my guy that he was my guy yeah he was he dressed different he skated different he looked different he looked modern uh the way we used to go out in the driveway and hold our sticks on our shin pads with the bold legs and try to emulate him um you know I loved uh I ended up loving uh Guy Lafleur and ever since that they threatened him not getting out of the Boston Garden alive.

And he went and scored a hat trick. And he was smoking cigarettes with his full uniform on at 2 o'clock in the afternoon and went and scored a hat trick. And, you know, those kinds of stories there as a kid my age, you know, idolizing these hockey players. So it was Bobby Orr and Guy Lafleur, two big ones. And then Bobby Clark later on in the 70s because I grew up in the Broad Street bully days.

I mean, our junior teams were brawling before the game started. And the Broad Street bullies, nobody did it better. So if you're going to get into that game, you might as well do it well, right? So my dad was planning the pregame brawls, and he would have guys spaced out. If anybody came over our red line, I mean, the game was on. No refs on the ice. No refs on the ice.

It was crazy hockey. Thank God that's out of it. So you always had that edge. That came from your father? My dad was a tough right-hand defenseman, pretty good player, but played hard for his team and fought for his team. He was playing in the old Western Hockey League for Portland. Buckaroo has played for the Edmonton Flyers.

And I remember him telling a story, a couple of stories. One was that he was trying to protect one of his scorers on the Edmonton Flyers. And, of course, three guys from Calgary jumped him and gave it to him pretty good. And he got kicked out of the game. And he was sitting there with his equipment on waiting for the game to end and the first guy that came through the door he drilled him and then the second guy that came through the door he drilled him and by finally a couple more guys came in they were able to kind of restrain him and he goes you motherfuckers if you're not going to fight with us you're going to fight me in the

dress you're not going to fight together on the ice you're fighting me in the dressing room wow so he was he was he was one of those guys that uh you know was a glue guy changed the culture and to fight me in the dressing room. You're not going to fight together on the ice. You're fighting me in the dressing room. Wow. Old school. He was one of those guys that, you know, was a glue guy, changed the culture. So you're coming up and he's talking about being a teammate, things like that, like character stuff as opposed to just hockey stuff. Yeah, oh yeah. You know, you learn more about, you learn how to play bridge around the kitchen table, right? You know, you learn hockey at a deep level around the kitchen table about talking about that really in-depth kind of knowledge of the game or what it means to be a teammate and all the things that you don't teach or can't teach by just watching by just watching

there so there's a deeper level I mean it's like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu there's different levels of black belts right I mean you there's a there's the belts, and then you get to the black belt, and then there's 10 degrees of black belt. So the level of knowledge that I had even before I turned pro of what the game actually went and how to win at the game was different than probably most kids. That's wild. And still that you were at a pretty young age,

so those car rides home after games must have been chopping it up. Everything's chopping it up. I miss that. Oh, thanks for the tequila, boys. You're welcome. We should do a collab. They can come up with one. We got the pig waiting. Might as well. Mark, I want to ask about, you know, you played the WHA before the

NHL, of course. What was the caliber of play? I think that's kind of an underrated part of history. How much, you know, the WHA was absorbed by the NHL. What was the caliber of play before you came to the NHL? Well, there was a lot of good players, but there was also a lot of crazy players that were, you know, there was a lot of fighting

back then. Like Ben Carpenter or whatever? You know, Willie Trogness. Your personalities, almost like tough guy personalities more so. All that. You know, I was 17 years old playing the WHA, looking at this Jules Baudouin, and he cross-checks me. I turn around and throw my gloves back, and this guy is like 6'5", 230 pounds.

And I turn around and all of a sudden I look at the guy with the big full-man shoe, and he's like this. You're 17. John Brophy was coaching there. We had two bench-clearing brawls in one game. We were fighting for the last playoff spot, and he's got the guy, look over at the bench. I got him squared off.

My guy, look over at the bench, and John Brophy is just pounding one of our guys down like this. Every time his silver hair comes up, it was crazy. But there were some good players that came out of there, played in the National Hockey League. I always remember the story the um story about uh willie trognitz he was a beauty rode the big harley and kind of that kind of guy and he got in a fight and was in the penalty box and and the announcer goes and five minutes for fighting we willie trognitz and willie trognitz takes

the skates off he stands up in the thing and he's throwing the skates up oh my god we will yeah it's like uh but that was the kind of stuff that was going on in the wha but it was it was good entertainment like the tropic the tropical was the let's get tropical the french tropics oh yeah just anything to sell tickets hey guys i'm trickling skates well that was they were putting seats in the yeah they're putting mess had to fight a bear. A couple of few good players though, you know. I don't think enough people talk about, like when I watch you playing, I'm like, wow, you're such a good skater. Like your stride, your strength.

Yeah, powerful. Powerful, but like smooth and long. Like when I watched the game back then, like not a lot of guys could skate like you. I don't think you get enough credit for like, you know, your toughness we hear a lot about and your leadership and obviously your point productions and stuff speak for itself. But your skating is, like, so smooth. Where did you learn that?

That's an interesting point, actually. I was never always a good skater. Actually, I remember practicing. My dad was coaching junior hockey for the St. Albert Mets, and they won a national championship in the Alberta Junior Hockey League. And I would always skate, anytime I could, I would go skate with the team. And, of course, you know, I was 12 years old or whatever age I was, and it was kind of weird.

I was not really developed at that time. I was a late developer. And my skating stride wasn't really great for a long time. I started to get bigger, stronger. It started to come, and then I started doing power skating lessons with a gal in Edmonton named Audrey Bakewell, who talked about, you know, the skating stride, and most guys skate down the ice like this,

but their legs are going like this. And she was the first one. If you look at a sprinter, the sprinter's going down out of the blocks skating like this. And so she had this whole philosophy about keeping your body moving. And then, of course, I got stronger and started to grow my strength,

or my stride started to lengthen. But I was a late developer. It's hard to say I was a late developer when I played pro at 17, but I was, at 15 years old, I was 5'7", 135 pounds. And then by the time I was 15, you know, I played junior that year, I was 5'9", maybe 155. And then I grew the next year to 6'175 and started fighting all the 20-year-olds when I was 16, 17 years old. Was that something that came naturally?

We ask a lot of guys that who played the way you did. And I guess your dad kind of taught you that part of the game, but did it make you nervous or was it almost like you enjoyed it and that physical part of the game, it became easy to you? Back then, it was you just looked at the game, you monitored, and you were assessing the game sitting on the bench. I mean, I did it my whole career. I'm sitting on the bench.

What needs to be done at this point right now? To change momentum, things like that. Anything, anything. What are we lacking? What are we doing well? How can we change the momentum? There's someone running around and someone's got to do it. You know what I mean?

And hopefully you have a deep enough team to be able to address any situation. But you also have to recognize a situation that needs to be addressed. And so I was a stick boy of my dad's national championship teams. I saw every speech that he gave to his team. I saw the teams fight with each other. I saw them party together. I saw them become family. And so when I became a pro,

it became very second nature to me of what needed to be done at certain times. You'd seen it all. I'd seen it all, and also I understood um you know the meaning of being a team player but more importantly what actually needed to be done during the during the game and it was you yeah it's just well and i you know i was 15 so then but i when i was uh i think when i was 16 maybe 16 i became captain of the team and when you're the captain of the team

you know everybody's looking around. I mean, you've got to take it on. Yeah. But it was an interesting time. The game was different then too. Don't forget. Like we're talking about a different era, a completely different mindset, all the things that, you know, it was a scary place.

And if you didn't know the guy sitting beside you was going to have your back, some of those arenas it was a tough place to go into so obviously as a leader you knew what to step up when you needed you know a fight whether it was a big hit or were you ever dominant at a young age like you were maybe at your fourth year with edmonton had you ever put up those type of numbers or were you always doing those other jobs more so than you were maybe providing offense uh I never was dominant. I started to play really well my last year junior and then I got they brought up me to the WHA and I because don't forget I played four years of junior so because I started when I was 15, 16, 17 and then I guess it was three years but so I

started to play really that really well that year because I was finally playing against kids that I could compete against physically and all that. And then I went and played the WHA, but I never put up big numbers ever at any point in my career. So I was always kind of more of a role player, and I understood that role really well. And when I turned pro, I played on the fourth line. And when you play on the fourth line, you've got to figure out a way to make yourself useful, right? So I played with Ron Chipperfield and Bill cowboy flatt bill cowboy flatt yeah not your fake name like not your typical start you know start ron chipperfield was ron chipperfield was an amazing junior hockey

player had set all kinds of records he was a very talented player and bill cowboy flatt came from philadelphia big beard right hand defenseman and i'd go over to his side of the ice, and he goes, get on your own side of the ice. You know, he was one of those tabletop hockey right-wing guys. Yeah, yeah. Kind of got out of his own zone. Bubble hockey. Went right straight down the boards to the post on the other end.

Like the bag skating drill at the end of practice? That was that lane. Yeah, he never got out of that lane there. It is interesting, though, like looking at your numbers and all these amazing statistics, but you came into the NHL your first year, and you weren't lighting it up. For a legend of the game, that's uncommon, I feel like.

You had to earn your stripes and your ice time at a really young age in the NHL, which is different than a lot of stars nowadays, especially. Well, I had to develop at the National Hockey League level. I was an undeveloped product in every way. I had a deep understanding of the game, which we just talked about. But for me, I was 18 when I got drafted, had played a year of pro. So I felt confident going to the training camp for the Orioles

when I got drafted in the third round. But I was still an unquestionable asset at that particular time. I was just trying to make the team. I was still like, you know, an unquestionable or questionable, you know, asset at that particular time. I was just trying to make the team. I was lucky enough to make the team. Like a lot of potential, but. Well, they didn't even know if I had potential. I think someone obviously saw something to draft me,

but there was nothing that stood out to anybody at that particular time that I was going to be even an NHL player. You know, I just hadn't put up any kind of numbers that would have said that this is a guy that could, you know, potentially one day become, you know. What an explosion, eh? Not bad. A lot of penny stock in the pocket.

I want to ask, like, when you got to Edmonton, what did you know about Wayne before that and, like, any expectations? I remember reading and seeing when I was nine years old a big expose on the Canadian magazine about this guy that was scoring 300 and his child that was scoring 350 goals and 400 assists, and I'm thinking to myself, wow, that's amazing. So I knew about Wayne at a very early age, right? And, of course, Canada knew about Wayne. And then, of course, it was interesting when he signed in Indianapolis

and then Oilers signed him from there, Indianapolis signed me. So when he was coming from Indianapolis to Edmonton, I was going from Edmonton to Indianapolis. But I remember one story about when I was 15 years old and my first year junior, my dad was coaching. I didn't think I was going to make the team because I was small and weak and I wasn't skating great.

Anyways, I made the team, and I was on the practice going with my dad one day and didn't have my driver's license, obviously. So I said, hey, Dad, do you think Wayne Gretzky is way better than me? And my dad goes, um, um, um. How do I tell him? No better look and get in the car or we're going to be late. What exit do we turn at? How do I tell him?

No better look and get in the car. We're going to be late. What exit do we turn at? So Wayne and I had a connection at a very early age. And crazy enough, there we find ourselves together at training camp in Edmonton and became fast friends very quickly. So you think of the Oilers in your dynasty and Gretzky and yourself and Anderson, Fuhrer, Coffey. But the first year, it was you, Kevin Lowe, and Gretzky and yourself and Anderson, Fuhrer, Coffey. But the first year, it was you, Kevin Lowe, and Gretz.

Those were the first three there your rookie year? Yeah. And then could you see it even come in that? Because there were so many pieces, you didn't even really imagine what was to come. That's a great question. You know what was interesting? We had the expansion team, so they opened it up to,

you've got to pick some NHL players to fill the roster so we had guys that were kind of journeymen and Soupy Campbell as you guys know and Bill Cowboy Flit and Ron Chipperfield some guys that played in the WHA some NHLers and and we made the playoffs that year we won eight of the last 10 games and and the team actually made the playoffs which was the most amazing experience because we played Philadelphia and that was a year that they had an amazing year, won all the games, like 35 games undefeated streak. And they beat us in three straight, but the field, that intensity of the playoffs, you talk about these teams and these, and these kids going, coming into the league and never playing playoff hockey. We played that intensity against the Philadelphia Flyers our

first year. And that was like an awakening. Wow. There's a whole other level to this thing. How different it is. Oh, it was like literally an awakening for us. Like, wow, there's a lot more than just – Did they bitch-slap you, boys? Yeah, three straight. But, like, other than that, just all over.

No, no, no, no. We were tough. No, we didn't get pushed around, and it was pretty – it felt competitive, but when you get beat three straight, obviously you look back, it's like they handled us, but it didn't feel like we were completely outclassed or undermanned or getting kind of run out of the building. And then you were like, oh. Well, we had Dave Sminkle, so nobody was –

I think we'll be okay next year. Nobody was doing anything. Well, that wasn't even like a precursor to that things were going to be good. There was a lot of steps. But Wayne tied Marcel Dion for the NHL scoring lead the first year. I mean, it was amazing. The fans must have been incredible here. It was.

Like Gretzky and you just. I have aunts and uncles that grew up here cheering for the original six. Someone from the original six. Huge. I mean, it was hard for them, even though I was playing for them, to kind of change their allegiance over the Oriolesoles it took a while we finally did but it was it was this i'm from edmonton this is the craziest thing idea that we could ever imagine that the nhl is going to come to edmonton and i'm going to be playing on the team was like crazy it was

so the next year right then you add anderson then you add curry then you add coffee then you add uh who else is on your yeah if you're and and and you play nine playoff games so then you add Curry, then you add Coffey, then you add who else is on there? Yeah, Feuer, and you play nine playoff games. So then you're starting to see, like, holy shit, we're building something. Well, we played eventual, we played as New York Islanders that year. And so we've got a firsthand look of what a Stanley Cup champion looks like. And we're taking them to six games, so we're going, wow, this is pretty fun. You know what I mean?

And we're kind of playing hard, and we're kind of loosey-goosey and not know sure and what's going on but um and that was kind of like the time would now we're starting to think about you know coughs playing away and gretz now he's leading the league grant fuhrer is playing amazing you know um so now we're kind of starting to think wow we might be on to something here but you guys are just so young too right having so much like what what is this yeah it was a little bit of that uh you know if you're not having fun when you're 18 19 years old playing a national hockey league playing with the greatest player you know smashing every record and you know playing in my hometown i mean if you can't have a good time there, what are we talking about? What are we doing? Right. Like, I mean, so we're running it pretty deep. Yeah. We had, we had, we had a good time. Did you feel, I was going to ask if you felt any more added pressure playing at home or you

just thrived off it and loved it? I didn't really. Um, I lived at home my first year. Then I moved in with Glenn Anderson on the South side and then eventually the party house. We, uh, yeah, yeah. the south side and then eventually the party house we uh yeah yeah sound like your dad now yeah next question all right we are messed love it we didn't miss it we didn't miss out on anything we you know what's crazy about it though is that we are we're all going out and when we went out everybody obviously recognizes but when we went out there was some kind of feeling that we're all in it together there was no we weren't trying to steer away from the attention I mean we were just kind of part of the whole way it is it was just part of the whole scene and we're having a great time and everybody accepted of course it recognizes but

it wasn't so fandom back then as maybe it would be now. But we just felt like part of the whole fabric of the city in so many ways. And, you know, 18, 19 years old playing professional hockey. You mean there wasn't three guys trying to carry beers into your trunk of your car giving you hugs while you're trying to get in there? He's talking about Nick Dusty. Yes, yes. There was all that. It just wasn't on camera.

Yeah, we just didn't – yeah, exactly. Didn't record it. Mark, I got to ask, one of the most iconic photos from your run here at Edmonton was you with a face cloth over your loin with Gary Coleman. What did you talk about, mess? Like, you're in the lap with the beer bottle. Tell us that story. That was just –

He was so – you know, Edmonton, they had a thing on the west side. I can't remember the name of it, but they would do plays there, and all these actors and actresses would come to Edmonton, and they would put on these performances. And he was in town doing something when his show was at the peak or height of its popularity, and he came to a game and came in the dressing room. Back then, as you can see, I had a beer in my hand.

Yeah, it's an awesome picture. We still had beer in the dressing room. Back then, as you can see, I had a beer in my hand. Yeah. It's an awesome picture. We still had beer in the dressing room. And I'm sitting there with it. Someone takes a picture. I'm not thinking about it. Here we are. How many? 50, 40 years later.

Iconic. It is. It's truly an iconic photo from that era. It's just bizarre. It is. Exactly. It's the bizarre way. That's why R.A. loves it.

He likes the weird shit. He's all into the weird shit. He's like, I wonder what's under that towel. You're not the old. That really little towel that he was wearing. What are you talking about? You're not the only one at the table who likes psychedelics, Matt. This is the kid. Yeah, I was just looking at this table there.

I was going, whoa. You spiked the tequila. I was coming right from the moss pit right there. I don't know if you should have the dance of bears then, huh? Yeah, that's his new moss pit tequila. I already drew this earlier. I'm telling you. I was going, that's good for you guys.

Do you guys import this just from the show? Yeah. Or does this come with your new studio? Yeah. What do you mean? This is so old. So after that run and then you guys were beating the finals, it was by the Islanders.

Was that kind of now? That was the third year in 83. Right. So was it all of a sudden after that, now the expectations are we want a cup? Did you guys feel that internally? Well, don't forget we lost to L.A., which then they wanted to trade everybody away.

In five games, right? I'm looking at that. And, you know, it was a series we probably should have won, and, you know, we're sitting on the bench and booing their power play and doing all the things that crazy, cocky kids did. Gary Unger takes a five-minute penalty, and they come back, and we're up 5-0, come back and beat us 6-5.

But, you know, when they talk about, you know, experiencing things along the way, I always say, well, I'd rather win while I'm experiencing how to win. But unfortunately, there are certain things that you have to really understand about winning, and that was a tough lesson for all of us. And then the third year, in 83, we get up against the Islanders.

We lose four straight, and now we're thinking to ourselves, now we can get there, and now we've got to figure out a way, once we get there, how to win because we got completely schooled in 83 by the Islanders, which obviously were an amazing team. And that was their fourth, right? That was their fourth in 83 by the honors which obviously were amazing that was their fourth right that was their fourth in a row and they they were an amazing team but they did they just schooled they was better they were they were just tighter they were gritty they were tough they were just like not giving you and grad skinny room nothing just just just so just so connected and just um it's just hard to explain. They took our game away.

We didn't make any kind of adjustments. It was a real eye-opener, learning curve for us and our whole organization. Well, I think Wayne describes it as he was walking by their room after and they're all celebrating and they had ice bags all over them where he felt that it was a different level that you guys had to get through. And the fact that he took that path was everything he needed to know in that visual saying we got to go back to the drawing board and we got more to give.

When you get beat four straight, you got to look at everything. You know what I mean? Like physically, mentally, emotionally, focus, preparation, everything that you guys know about the game. And that was interesting. There's a price to pay to win a Stanley Cup at a deep, deep, deep level. And so we came back the next year more focused, realizing that we had to change.

I mean, we couldn't outscore our problems at that level. We could, for most teams, you can. We could. But when you get to a team like at that level. For most teams, you can. We could. But when you get to a team like that that is so buttoned up, we couldn't outscore our mistakes, and we had to figure out a way to play better defensively. We had to pay a bigger price. We had to start blocking shots.

We had to pay attention to the details of the game at this level. When it funnels up, the margin for errors, as you guys know, can become very small. Well, was there something said at that next camp? Like Glenn Sather's talking to you guys a little different, or was it more within you guys that you knew it needs to be that much tighter now? I think everybody knew. The coaches knew.

The players knew. Look at Wayne. When we first got there, we joked to this this day i don't know how many years later we said wayne was going to win a stanley cup we just had to figure out a way to play a support role it was it's gonna happen it's gonna happen he's gonna win a stanley cup with somebody so why not yes how can i help you know what role can i play so when we came back the next year we all figured out what can i do better how can i be a better team how can be more focused how can i whatever whatever the we talked just understanding like where you are understanding just understanding the levels of different levels and the level and

we're seeing it now this year right now we're seeing it right now the level of play is different you know you can get by the first round of team that's inefficient in the areas there you can you can get by but you can't you can't get by um you can't win on the motion you got to win by and so it just became that mantra for us and we we changed we became better defensively we you know we weren't great but at least we gave grant a chance to you know to stop you know he had stopped the first three and then we'd get the fourth rebound eventually but his great quote is you you know, I'll stop the first and third. You guys get the second and fourth.

And we'd go, no, Grant, you get the first, second, and third. We'll come in finally. We'll get back in time to get the fourth rebound. Just hang in there, Grant. I want to ask you about those first few years that we're talking about, the learning curve, all that stuff. Like I grew up in Saskatoon, like not too far away really. It is quite far, but not really when you're out here.

Just a heartbeat away. Yeah, just a heartbeat away, man. And I mean, we're all brainwashed. We're Gretzky fans. We were Euler fans. We were that generation of hockey fans that like, you know, inspired really hockey in the country at that time. And like, were you guys just floating?

Like what was energy like in this city that we see right now and how crazy this rink gate how crazy the city is like you guys started that really what was the pressure on you guys like oh yeah ho hum we're back here like you know here we go again let's light it up boys or was the pressure mounting around your group like just in day-to-day life almost too yeah yeah it's a great question it was mounting uh we were good enough to win we had to figure out a way to win yeah and that brings big responsibility as a as a as an organization as a player and as a team they got you you got to buckle down i mean and um do you remember anyone at the grocery store like,

Hey, Messier. Oh, yeah. No, chirping you? Oh, yeah. Hey, Messier, you guys should have two cups by now. You guys suck. Yeah, all that. It was Sather.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With the disguise. In the meat section with his mustache and glasses on. That's how he motivated you. Exactly. Oh, we felt it all. Of course. that's how he motivated you exactly exactly oh we felt it all of course i mean a small town that magnifying glass kind of um attention um but i think the greatest part about is that we like the team now the the city now loves this team you know i, and for good reason because they seem to be great guys.

They seem to be kind of assimilating themselves like we did. But we kind of were just part of the city. We were just part of it, and we were out and about, and everybody had their own charities, and we were doing all the things that you're supposed to do as a probe, and it was genuine. It wasn't contrived. that you're supposed to do as a probe and it was genuine it wasn't contrived and um and but but because of that um there was this kind of really deep kind of feeling that uh we got to bring we

got to make this happen somehow this is this is just like we're right on the br on the on the brink of winning something uh special not only to us but also to the people here because of the five years that we kind of went on this journey together and I always say that we went on the journey together and and it is true as a team and organizations if you're not kind of walking that line together with your fan base and using that energy that they can provide and the expectations and the pressure. I mean, when I went to New York, I hoped, I prayed that there was the same kind of expectations that there was here in Edmonton. And there was, but I think that can really benefit a team that it matters if you win. It matters if you don't play good, you hear about it, if you don't play good. And if you

can't stand the heat, then you got to get out out of the kitchen. That's just part of professional hockey when you're trying to get to the elite level, and not everybody's made for it. A lot of players can play in the league, but not everybody can play in a team that's expected to win. Mark, on the five-cup match here in Edmonton, I'm supposing there were times there was a rah-rah speech necessary. Who would give it, how would they give it, and how effective would it be when whoever gave it would give it?

Yeah, maybe before you guys were in your first, maybe the game where you guys clenched it. You guys know that. Do you guys know that story? No. So it can come from anybody. And that's the beauty of sports and team sport is that inspiration, all the things that we talk about doesn't have to come from Wayne,

doesn't have to come from Kevin Lowe, doesn't have to come from myself and come from anybody. And we're getting ready to go up for the third period, and Donnie Jackson, I don't know if you guys remember Donnie Jackson, tough right or left-hand defenseman, you know, glue guy from Minnesota, stands up in the middle of the dressing room and he goes, you guys ever hear about the bear and the rabbit? And everybody's looking at each other, what the fuck, Donnie?

Donnie, we're going out to win our first Stanley Cup. Anyway, so go ahead, what's going on? He goes, well, the bear asks the rabbit, hey, do you have a problem with shit sticking to your fur? And the rabbit looks at the bear and he goes, no. So the bear grabs the rabbit and starts wiping his ass on it like that. And we're all looking like we're all sitting in our stalls waiting to get up. We're looking like, what the fuck is this?

Just took the nerves right out of you. So then we go out and they score two quick goals. Oh, no. Donnie Jackson. Donnie Jackson. What the fuck is that? Wrong time. Where are you going with this, Don?

But you got to know Donnie Jackson, because he was one of my favorite, favorite, favorite teammates of all time. And it was so bloody. And you know the best part about it? He was one of my favorite, favorite, favorite teammates of all time. And it was so bloody. And you know the best part about it? He started laughing until he had tears in his eyes as he told the story. And we're all looking at him. He was on the shrooms.

He was trying to lighten the mood. So they scored two quick ones when you guys came out. And then how did you finish it off? Well, we came out in the first six minutes or something. They scored two goals. And then we ended up. When you're in the doggy pile after, you like what the was that it was it was it was legendary but it was so typical it was so typical of our team and and the in these pers different

personalities because that's to me was the greatest part about before you guys know you've been in the dressing room i mean to having that diverse set of personalities and letting everybody be who they are and no judgment, and they can feel comfortable. And, you know, Glenn really created that kind of, you know, that Phil Jackson talks about it in Sacred Hoops in his book and all that, about the bulls and how, you know, when you come to that dressing room, you can be who you want, you can relax, and you're welcome no matter who you are or so it's um but jackie was one of those special guys uh mark i want to go back to

of course i'm a boston guy uh 1988 stanley cup final game for one of those bizarre stories in league history i mean there's fog all over the ice there's a power outage at boston garden it was 3-3 game and they just spend the, but it was like a multi-hour delay. What are you guys in the locker room thinking? What's going through your minds during this whole ordeal? Back then, they soldered the windows shut, and they would turn the heater up, so it would be about 120 degrees in the dressing room.

In the away room being gutless? Oh, yeah. It was great. Oh, right out of the pocket. We do that to ladies, yeah. It was just 90. Oh, it was great. Oh, right out of the pocket. We do that to Lingus, yeah. It was awesome. It was the humidity. There was no AC in that building, yeah. It was amazing.

I actually missed those kinds of, well, you've got to overcome everything. And you've got to be prepared to overcome everything. And you have to be resilient and whatever's thrown at you and distractions or whatever and that was one of those moments there where you whatever it is it is we're okay

as far as the conclusion is each team has to agree like alright we're going to suspend the game it's a tie game late in the second period let's just start it over back in Edmonton yeah there was a big deal. John Ziegler was the president. I still think he was the president. President, not commissioner, yeah.

That's it. Exactly. Good memory, buddy. Good memory. Once in a while. He had action on that game. He's looking for a refund now. Wayne was talking about this when we were with him.

There would have been what? There would have been eight game. It's like they just tied it over to the next game, right? It was like crazy. The records are weird. It's like Glenn Innocent has a record for the fastest goal in the Stanley Cup, but that's part of the suspended game, which doesn't actually figure on the actual record.

The points counted, but the win and loss didn't, and they just went and started another game. But you guys, I mean, obviously you dusted the Bruins. Back then I was kind of more, just tell me when I've got to go out in the ice. I wasn't getting too much into the details back then. Exactly, yeah. But it was fun. Did you guys retaliate with the locker room stuff?

Would you guys crank up the heat in yours? You know, it was always suspicious in Philadelphia. I think it was 85, and we landed in Philadelphia. Of course, we were flying commercial back then, so we landed in Philadelphia. And, of course, every time we landed, that's a long trip from edmonton to philadelphia commercial connections and all that and of course every time we landed we always went and skated glenn didn't care what time it was really get the legs loose we skated it must have been miserable for the trainers we're thinking back on it but we all did it and we figured it out and and uh of course on on the way back, the bus broke down.

And I'm thinking to myself, is there something a little more? Yeah, somebody was cutting some wires. Yeah, is there something a little more going on here? And then you realize then the fire alarms are going off in the middle of the night and then your phone calls and all that kind of stuff. And, wow, okay. Wow, this is what we've got to deal with. So you guys are in the law group saying,

let's fucking shove it up their ass, these motherfuckers doing all that stuff. Yeah, sure, why not? Anything you can use for more motivation. Why not? Physical warfare. It just gets down to any little thing. Any little thing can be the difference.

If it is, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But if it is, great. But if it isn't, that's okay too. But if you can find any colonel, I used to sit on the bench looking at the team, watching them come off the ice, watching them on the bench, how they talk to each other, watching the guy whose body language, I was slumping his shoulders.

Come on, guys, look at the guys. They're quitting. You know what I mean? Looking for anything to add a little more motivation, a little bit of something that we could use, a little edge. I mean, the psychological warfare is real at that particular point, and you want to make sure that you're on the right side of it. So you get four and five, a true dynasty.

It's this incredible run, and how do you find out what is, like take us through you finding out Wayne's getting traded, like all that news breaking, how you felt throughout all that. It must have been crazy. I was golfing at the Edmonton Country Club, and we finished nine holes, and I went to the little snack shack that they had at the time, and the guy in there was making me a sandwich, whatever,

a couple of beers and probably a couple of beers. Tequila. A lot of beers. A couple, yeah. That's what we call on sandwiches these days. And I just haven't looked up at the tv and they're saying uh the rumor has it wayne gretzky is being traded to the to the last year and i'm thinking myself wow this is a this is a punk i mean what do you mean they're gonna trade the greatest player in history in the peak of his career they're gonna trade him i go this I go, this is someone's fucking around.

I mean, this is not happening. How was your back nine? I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think about it. I said it's just a rumor. It was just kind of like, you know, just before that Peter Pockett had been held hostage in his house and all that kind of stuff.

It was spec. So I was just thinking, you know, what the hell could happen right so i didn't think much of it and of course found out shortly after that it was it was real so it it was uh well you can only imagine what we had gone through um you know when you talk about uh you know when do they walk together forever the relationships of brotherhood you're all young everything you, in the peak of our career, we're thinking three, four from work. We're getting seven of these.

There's no end to this. There's no end to this. We're just going to keep rolling through this. We're going to devour anything that's, you know, we're just getting started. Oh, my God. We're just going to hammer this thing home, and we're going to play this out until the end. And it was a, oh, man, that tough uh tough summer like your first first call with

him just must have been super emotional i mean he brings you up in the press conference yeah but for did he promise you he wasn't gonna cry he goes hold on did he promise you probably probably he says i promised mess i wasn't gonna do this well he didn't need to because the whole edmonton and myself were crying yeah behind him there there was a lot of tears there the that north saskatchewan river right there just went up built on tears went up about four feet yeah the drainage systems in edmonton were uh i thought it was overflowing too much sailing in there wow the sail all the fish are coming. Too much sailing in the water. Holy shit.

Do you guys ever rip on Gretz and stuff? Like, you guys are all young, but he's the great one. He's this, you know, next prodigy. He's crushing everything, like you said. But was there, like, a relationship there? Oh, yeah. There had to be. Hey, Gretz, get involved.

Hey, Gretz, do this. He was awesome. Oh, yeah. Oh, he was great. He treated everybody. He treated everybody. He treated everybody unbelievable. He was – when you talk about a guy that, you know, I'm eight days older, and you look at you as a guy that you look up to and learn from, right?

Yeah. I mean, as a peer, you know what I mean? He was so far advanced in this from everything. But, you know, someone said, well, what's the difference between you and Wayne? I go, well, the difference right now is Wayne is thinking about how he's going to score three goals tomorrow night, and I'm thinking about where we're going to go after the game. You know what I mean?

That's a big difference. You need both that, though, on the team. That's a big delta right now at 18 years old. That's a huge delta. So I tried to narrow that delta over the years. He knew where the puck was going. You knew where the girls were going. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But he was truly one of the guys, right? But we had guys that – but that's a part about being a team is that if we didn't do that, he wouldn't have felt like part of the team. You know what I mean? We had guys that could rip on him if he was late for the bus

or the bus was being held up or whatever. And he would take it in good stead. Would you guys sit in the hotel room on the road and watch hockey? Because he loves watching. He loves hockey. To this day. I know. I love it.

I say all my friends now, I said, you know what's amazing? Every time we get together, Wayne, hey, what's going on? We talk about this. And eventually it always gets back to hockey. He loves hockey and he remembers everything. His mind is crazy. I'm blown away. It's like an encyclopedia.

And you'd think the greatest hockey player in the world, the last thing he'd want to do is talk about hockey. I would just play golf with him in the Grove between games one and two. And as soon as we get to the 19th hole there, it's right to the game and the Oilers and the Panthers and everything going on. It's amazing. I said when we were hanging out with him with the TNT stuff in Atlanta,

which was like an honor to be able to hang with him all the time. I was in the hotel too, so it was just like amazing. I was like, you know people go visit the Hall of Fame and you walk around. But he is the Hall of Fame. His brain is – he knows everything. That's true. That's a good way to put it. He is the Hall.

It's so wild to spend time with him because he can go anywhere with the game, with any character or player. He has such an unbelievable understanding of the game. His actual way that he watches a game and his perspective on players and all that is a is a very unique which is a which is a great asset i think i just wanted to just quickly because we were talking about the the espn thing how cool is it now working on that side like wayne and and then now obviously getting the cover edmonton in the finals like do you love doing the tv stuff does it it keep you in the mix? Yeah. New deal.

Just got a new deal. Oh, who? You just got a new one? Big extension. Extension. Look at you, man. You're a fucking machine, buddy. Like, come on.

Save some for the rest of us. Six days a week he's in the gym. David Goggins over here. No, I'm serious. You're a machine, man. You're doing it all, man. Carrying the game. The ESPN has been, when they first asked me, I said,

wow, I never thought about doing something like that. And the best move I ever made, best decision I ever made, has been unbelievable, actually. It's been a three-year learning curve for me to really understand that side of it and how to bring anything that I know, how much or how little that can be debated, to any kind of educational, teaching, entertaining perspective. I always get back to, for anything that happens on the acers, when I watch the game, there's

so many things that happen to for that to happen yeah and as an analyst i was trying to to get everybody involved and why that particularly and and i didn't have time no i know i know there's no time i know and so i had to think get a thought and i had to kind of get to the thought and it was kind of i was kind of wow that's kind of boring like i mean i there's. There's more to it. There's way more depth to what's happening. That's why I need a podcast. That's why I'm on TV. So we can chop it up.

No red light, buddy. No red light here. But, Mess, you can do this easy. This is just us being us. But when you sit there and your suit's on and you're like. It's quick. You have to find being yourself in that situation too. Cause it's not like organic or normal.

It's like kind of awkward when you start, like, where do I look? What am I doing? How do I present this? All of that. Yeah. You're absolutely right. But I'm thinking to myself at 63, what a great way to get to know myself over again. Yeah.

What an amazing, what an amazing way to challenge yourself, to do something that you've never done or ever expected to do and to really learn something and understand something outside of anything you've ever known in your entire life. And because of that, I find a lot of, you know, I just find a lot of gratification in trying to do anything well. Yeah. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to trying to do anything well. Yeah. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to try to do it well, and I'm going to put the time in, and I'm going to. And it's taken three years, and I feel like maybe now I'm just kind of starting to turn the corner.

Oh, you're doing awesome. Well, I mean, there's a lot of hiccups. You know what I mean? There's a lot of things that happen that. Laying in bed at night and not being able to fall asleep and like, oh, my God, why did I say that? I should have said this. Exactly.

Why is PK outdressing me? I look like a bum compared to him. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to get a little more style. I got to get a new suit, guys. This guy's making me look silly. All of it. But you're right. As a player, I was very hard on myself.

Yeah. And I would go home and I couldn't freaking wait to get back and play again because I didn't want to be in restless nights if I didn't feel I gave my best or played my best. So I'm going home now, and I go, oh, it's so fucking obvious. You freaking nitwit. I mean, it was so obvious what you should have said there and self-analyzing myself and all that kind of stuff.

But it's great. That's part of the learning experience. I love it. I love it. I think, like, obviously obviously 94 is just so legendary, but that fifth cup in Edmonton for me is, like, the one without Wayne. It was your best season statistically in your career, your most points in a playoff in your career.

And the year after he left, I see you guys lost in the first round. So that second year, it must have been this hunger inside you, like, we're getting another one here? Like, were you so focused then? Wayne gets traded, so we all got to come to terms with that so then we say we huddle back with all the veterans we go look at we've been through a lot together you know we can't give up on each other you know we can't give up on the fans we can't give up as much as we're pissed off at the owner and the organization for doing it we can't give up on that i mean so we got to buckle down

and how are we going to buckle down so sure enough who do we play in the first round of the playoffs la kings and who beats us unbelievable wayne and now they're going you guys suck you can't win a cup without messier and we're here all year long you know what i mean that you guys are never going to win you know just everybody chirping us and all that and i'm going yeah you fuck it yeah you will see so it was pissing you off oh it's like you know maybe we could maybe we couldn't look at i know how big we're look you put wayne on winnipeg you put wayne on calgary maybe they win five you know winnipeg had great teams and maybe the difference was that we won those cups you know not to undermine it's kind of a great challenge for you guys right because it was amazing is so huge yeah people saying like you

couldn't have done it without them i i see what you're saying that cup that cup was just a testimony to experience grit determination and just freaking grizzled and then we had the young legs of the graves and jelena and murphy and we had a big defense, and then Billy Ranford played great. Yuriy Curry was all world, and we just mucked it up. And I've got to ask, you weren't in Boston yet. Where did you just go after? Did you fly right back to Edmonton? Oh, no, no. Did you go to R.A.'s local tavern?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Why, Gretchen? I've got to ask. Mac T had it wired. Oh, okay. Mac T, Craig McCavish. He had it all wired. That was the first out of the five.

That's the only cup we won on the road. Right, right, yeah. Actually, out of the six that I was part of, that was the only one we won on the road. So that was kind of interesting, and we flew back the next day, and that was an interesting flight, pouring ourselves onto that flight. They're rolling you on there. Was there anything that you did personally in that offseason

to get prepared for that year? What was so different that propelled you to have your best year and obviously lead them to another Stanley Cup? What was different other than that, maybe extra hunger? I was always hungry. I was always in condition, so all that stuff never changed. I was always in condition, so all that stuff never changed. I think anything, we just kind of became more of a team like we had been before.

It was more responsibility came to me to provide more offense. My leadership never really changed much because Wayne left. I still was doing the same thing. Wayne and I were completely different as far as our leadership. We were so compatible because I was here he was here and then we so we never kind of conflicted in any time as as leaders on the team and of course you know as as captain i was there to serve the captain and help him any way it can so when i became captain that didn't change for me so that was good and then what did change is that was more responsible responsibility for me to provide more offense so I had to figure out a way and then I had to change my game because

in order to be an offensive player you have to calculate how to cheat when to cheat to get on the right side of the puck and but not do it at the time where you can come back and so a lot of that change and just my my overall DNA where I'm more of a, you know, I never scored an overtime goal because I was so freaking worried about losing. I was always defensive. I would stay back and get pucks out, and Glenn Anderson was freaking, you know, just ripping it up, right? But I don't remember it really changing or thinking I had to change mentally,

physically, anything like that. It just kind of – our power play was good, and I was in different situations. I thought differently about being an offensive player. I thought about how Wayne and, of course, Craig Simpson – I was playing to Hall of Famer. Craig Simpson scored 50 goals. He could finish, and our power play was good and all that.

So it was – whatever it was it just whatever whatever whatever happened it just seemed to come together that year and for myself personally as i think i scored i don't even know how many points and whatever but i always say i always say this too like i talked to sid when they won back-to-back 16 17 and i was like after 16 i'm like dude you guys have the exact same team you're gonna win for Like, this is like a no-brainer. You guys are so good. He's like, I don't know, man. We got to find our identity.

You know, like it takes, I'm like, what do you mean your identity? It's like all the same guys. Like, just do what you did last year. But it's like every year you come in, like one little guy's lacking or something happens or a guy gets hurt or something. And it kind of takes a shape of its own. So I imagine that year for you guys, that shape you guys formed into as champions was so kind of foreign because it had been a certain way for so long.

That's really perceptive of you, and that is exactly right. Every training camp brought on a new challenge of trying to find that team's – and everybody talks about motivation all the time, and of course you have to be motivated, but I always talk about it's better to be inspiring you got to figure out a way to inspire but if you inspire people they'll motivate themselves and then you're not you're not kind of um you know responsible for trying to motivate 25 guys every night i mean that's that's a recipe for disaster not to mention that this is going to be a quick burnout. And that seemed to come to us pretty quickly that year to a person from all the grizzled veterans that we had to, and then we had,

like I talked about the young legs and all that kind of stuff. It just came together, and there was a renewed sense of purpose that, you know, after losing to L.A. and Wayne and, you know, that whole kind of crazy dynamic that happened that year and the disappointment of him leaving and all that. I'm not going to say it was a wasted year. It was actually really interesting how much I learned personally about there's a lot of things that you're going to be faced with

and a lot of adversity, and if you're not able and willing to handle that, how the hell are you going to handle something in the Stanley Cup finals when something happens, someone gets hurt, whatever can happen as we've seen. And you played one more year, but at any point after the fifth, did you think, like, wow, my time in Edmonton could be coming to an end? That last year. You knew it the whole time?

The last year, no. I got hurt that last year. Then we got run over by Minnesota. To go to the final? Yeah, in the conference final, which is incredible. We made it all the way back to the conference final the next year. So now we're talking about five cups in seven years, six trips to the finals in how many years, and then going to New York.

So now we're talking about eight cups in ten, or eight finals in ten years or whatever the numbers were and uh you know patriots it it was a crazy crazy and then all the canada cups on top of it and the all-star games and the amount of hockey was just insane and um i don't know it was just it just it just felt at the end that, I don't know, you just know in your heart. I can't explain it. I just needed a change. The team needed to kind of restructure.

They needed to bring – just Wayne had gone, Paul had gone, Grant had gone. It just seemed to kind of – Dynasty's end. And I personally needed a different challenge, personally, professionally, and I just said to Glenn, I just knew when that last buzzer went, I go, wow, it was like, this is the last

game I'm ever going to play for the Northern. Did you have any say in going to New York? What was that like? I phoned Glenn and I said, Glenn, you guys need to restructure the team. It's been 12 years. This has been more than we ever expected, I'm sure.

You know what I mean? We knew Wayne was going to win. Do we ever think we're going to win five Stanley Cups here? Probably not. But this is you and I both knowing. He goes, where would you like to go? And I go, well, if you have a chance. 31 years old. 31 years old,

I wouldn't mind going and playing in New York City. Wow. So he was able to make a trade with me. That's a testament to the respect he had for you, the five cups that he made. Absolutely. It's not your wish, you know. Absolutely. Absolutely.

It was just unbelievable. Actually unbelievable. Do you remember being young with the Oilers going to New York, being like, I could play here? Oh, yeah. I like this city. Can I come back for another podcast? Oh, yeah.

We'll do a podcast just on my nights alone. Okay. 1979. The New York edition. To the time I got there. There goes your new SPN. There's one name. We got a contract for you.

Don't worry, though. You'll be making more than your earlier days. Exactly. Let that information out. But, I mean, getting there and starting it off there, that must have been special. You said a new chapter in your life. I said a new conference.

I said a press conference. I hope this second career, so-called second career, is going to be just as fun and as successful as my first career because basically it was ending a chapter and starting a new chapter. chapter of course trying to win five Stanley Cups in New York would have been a little bit but to win a Stanley Cup in New York coming in three after three years later wow what a what a ride that was like and I think 31 years old when you got to New York did you feel like you still had a lot left in the tank at that point? I did. It was interesting. I had come off a knee injury the year before.

I had missed like three weeks, and I came back early. We'd lost 10 in a row. I came back, and I should have been out two months. I came back in like three weeks. Kind of got things stabilized, played in the playoffs, you know what I mean, on one leg, and then we got to the conference finals, got beat. And then so I went to – the trade was made. I go to New York.

I fly to New York, and I go in for a medical, and the doctor clears me, and, of course, the article the next day is that, you know, Rangers are thinking about trading for veteran, you know, Mark Messier, 31 years old, but actually he's not 31 years old. He's actually 62 years old in hockey years because he's played so many regular season games and so many so many regular season games so many playoff games that if we have to we have to judge it in hockey terms he's actually 62 dog years i'm thinking about i feel great like i'm 31 years old and i feel great now

it's 63 never mind 31 i was still chewing nails back at that 31 years old i was gonna eat this whole table then we would have had some fun. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wood chip, Roman. I love it. I love it. I would have gnawed away at this by the end of this interview. Oh, man. That's great. I guess I would ask comparatively playing here than going to New York.

I mean, it's New York. But, like, are you amazed at, yes, winning a championship, and, yes, you're recognizable playing for the Rangers, but it's like I feel like, and maybe I'm biased because I love hockey and I grew up around it and seeing you, I would go out, but walking around New York still to this day. And like what you mean to that city of people that never even maybe watched a game, but that you brought a championship for them. Well, in that regard, 54 years.

Yeah. You think about it in fan base of 54 years, the generations of fans that have been through Madison Square Garden to see the teams and the relationships between fathers and sons, moms and daughters, aunts and uncles, and those forged relationships through the lens of sports and the New York Rangers and the fandom around New York Rangers. You think about the power in that.

When I came there, the first game that I played I recognized it and um it was wow there's this is I'm getting into I I was hoping that was gonna hockey was gonna matter in New York City yeah wow you underestimated it I underestimated the the the the how much it mattered and the pressure that when I skated on the ice for that first game and they had all the ex-captains there and they shook all the ex-captains and the crowd was like, oh my God, what did I just sign up for? And it wasn't a smooth ride to get there, but, you know, it was. What's the craziest thing in New York that happened to you, like, just because you were... That's for the second podcast.

Yeah, that's... Okay. That's for the second... You got to pay to listen to that. He's at dinner, and, like, some, like, person comes up. Is it true, though, that... New York mobsters. Oh, yeah.

All of it. All of it. Is it true, though, that, like, you didn't mean to guarantee the game six win against the Devils? What was that story? You can, will, and will win. That was the quote. The whole inspiration behind that, and I've said this many times over the years,

is that if you don't believe you can win, it's not going to happen. We had to figure out a way to play better. We had the team that was capable because of the experience that I had had leading up to coming to New York and understanding the progression of how you go through the playoffs, and then you're looking at the other conference as you're winning and you're seeing who's playing over there and you're watching their games. I felt, at least I felt, that we had a good enough team to win that year. We had proven overall, you know, first President's Trophy and all that.

And then I knew Vancouver was going to perhaps come out of that side. And if you look at us and Vancouver on paper. We should beat them. this trophy and all that and then I knew Vancouver was going to perhaps come out of that side and if you look at us in Vancouver on paper we should beat that we should we should technically beat them now whether we got to go do it but so I'm thinking now we got to figure out a way to get through New Jersey and at that point in my career now I'm 33 34 how many more chances am I going to have so it didn't I didn't care the repercussions of anything at that point. I'm trying to figure out how I can get us back on track and playing the kind of confident game that we'd played all year. And the first thing you do, you think, talk about confidence and belief that we can win. And so if

they believe, and I say that we can believe that we're going to go and win that game, the subliminal messaging that you start to think about and talk about and feel and on the bus ride over and reading the papers. And so this starts this whole kind of idea that, you know, this groundswell of, you know, motivating, inspiring, believing, and that's what has to happen at certain times for a team in order to get over some hard obstacles that are on the way to a Stanley Cup. Then you've got to hatch it.

Were you aware that it was going to catch on like it did? Were you using the media as a tool to reinforce that? Yes, yes, yes, yes, and no, yes, because I know when we played New Jersey, we would all get on the bus as a team, and everybody had the papers. Back then, it wasn't phones, it was papers, and everybody would read the papers on the way from the practice rink over there. So I knew everybody was going to everybody had the paper. Back then it wasn't phones, it was papers. And everybody would read the papers on their way

from the practice rink over there. So I knew everybody was going to open up the paper and read that I believed that we could go in there and win the game. But it's very short-sighted that 10 million other New Yorkers and everybody around the country and the New Jersey Devils are going, oh yeah. What the fuck?

Is that right? They're going to come in here and win this game? Is that the all-time like bolt and board? Very Reg Dunlop of you. Is that the all-time bolt and board material quote right there? Is that going to go down as the number one? But you know what's funny? Someone said to me years after, I go, well,

if they needed that for inspiration and motivation at that time of year, I would have used that to our advantage saying, they need this to be motivated they're not motivated enough at what the chance that they have to go to the stanley cup finals to win one game so i would have just turned chess chess not checkers and then in the finals you guys are up 3-1 right yeah and then they forced that game seven did you say anything to the team before game seven or is that not really your thing game seven was uh three one you know the parade the tickets the demands the focus the distractions i mean it's all part of why

that when you talk you guys know the the people from out of town uh you know family uh you're making sure everybody's in a hotel i mean you take your eye off the ball one little iota, and it's like 1% that's magnified by 1,000 that time of year. And it's something that's phenomenal in sports that is hard to explain. And you think you're prepared. You think you're ready to go, and it just dissolved on us. And then, of course, game six was a wipeout. Game seven, we had two days to recover, which was really beneficial. And Keenan was asking us whether we should go to Lake Placid

and should we go and stay quiet. And we're all going, Mike, we're the best team in hockey. We want to be in our own beds. We want to be with our families. I mean, this is what we've done all year. Why would we change at this point right now? And he goes, great. If that's what you guys want to do, our own beds. We want to be with our families. I mean, this is what we've done all year. Why would we change at this point right now? And he goes, great. If that's what you guys want to do, let's do that.

So we went home, and we just absorbed that energy for two days, and it actually rejuvenated us because the whole city was so freaking on fire, and you couldn't help but be caught up in it and the enormity of it. And we had a good practice, and we got ready to play, and, boy, that building was electric. Oh, my God. I remember when Zubov went to Leach. I was 11.

That was my true, like, falling in love with hockey, watching the Rangers in the 94 summer. But I remember Zubov to Leach, D-to-D, like, in the offensive zone. He buries it. Forever. He hung onto it forever. Yeah, yeah. And you see in the replay, and Leach is there,

then he kind of gets back and he finds the seam. Yep. What two amazing hockey players. Like, crazy, crazy, crazy hockey players. Keaton Benstrom, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I feel like in this era of dynamic offensive defense, too, Leach's name just doesn't get brought up enough.

I mean, of course, we hear about, obviously, Bork and Orr and those dynamic players, but I just think Leach doesn't get, I think he gets lost in the shuffle a little bit, Mark. Well, I agree with that. You don't have to convince me of that. I played with a lot of great players in my time, but he's right up there in the top five.

Absolutely. Tough as nails, warrior. Never once at 5'11", 185 pounds, did he ever, ever, ever take a backward step when he went back and got the puck didn't matter with lindros coming down on him and the biggest forwards and all that he never threw snow you talk about a guy that played through pain uh you got to talk about a guy there's there's probably maybe three guys that i've ever played with, and maybe four, maybe five guys. You have six cups.

I'm sure there's a lot more. Maybe five guys that I would never worry about giving a long-term contract to. He's one of them. You know you're going to get his best on any given night. What a warrior. What a player. What a friend. What a champion.

Unbelievable. It's so hard to, like, you just have so many different things. We've taken up so much of your time. I just was kind of. That's where we got to come back. I'm going to hit the play button. Are we recording? Oh, no, we're not recording. We're going to start over.

I guess my last question for you would be the career you had and what you meant to these different cities. And we talk about post-retirement for guys being difficult. For you, at the beginning of being out of the game, was that hard? It wasn't, actually. It was, Christ, I played for 100 years. Can't do this anymore. I was walking out of there.

The mess actually hated hockey. But it was interesting. But that's, well, I was 44 when I basically retired, 40, whatever it was. What do I do now? 26 years. But so I recognized my last few years it was diminishing returns. I needed more rest to work that you need. So I couldn't keep up.

that you need. So I couldn't keep up. And more importantly, that if it's not, it's a hard, it's just a hard thing when it comes to them. But anyways, when I did retire, you know, I retired to, you know, my son Douglas and my son Lion and then had another baby after that. So, you know, that fills you up immediately, right? But I never once, once I retired, felt that, geez, I wish I felt about or thought about going back in time.

That's a good thing, though. Yeah. Like you were complete. Yeah, yeah. No, I had done everything that I – more than I had ever accomplished in the game. And for me, it was like I loved every minute of it. Like even to the end when I was, you know, laying, like in between games I was laying down for, you know,

the minute practice was over and all the treatment and all that, I'd go home and lay horizontal. But I loved the game. Like, you know what I mean? I just loved it. And even though we didn't play well and the teams weren't good at the end, I just loved trying to figure out a way to kind of pull it all together. And all the thought that, you know, we can make this work.

I can figure out this and that and try to make it work. But unfortunately, we weren't able to at the end. But I was lucky. What do you consider your purpose now? I mean, obviously, you had 26 years pro. Like, since you've retired, what's become your main focus? When you wake up, what makes what, what makes it tick? Oh, kids, obviously, you know, it's kids for me is family.

You know, you know, I started my foundation that's really geared towards giving access and opportunity to kids, underprivileged kids in New York City, especially in the Bronx. So trying to put that Kingsbridge Ice Center together, that didn't happen, but we put over 5,000 kids through a learn-to-skate program on rollerblades, all anticipation of that happening. That never happened, but these kids are amazing. But just paying it forward and really kind of hoping that one day I can help anybody that's in need in the game itself,

lend any experiences I had that might be helpful. And then, of course, the entrepreneur stuff, which is fun. You ever skate anymore? I did skate a lot before COVID. Really? Yeah, I was skating a lot, actually. I've got a spot on my ball hockey team, if you want it. Ball hockey, yeah.

You can't get a title. This is the guy you need. Oh, my God. Big deal, Bru. Yeah. Big deal, Selects. Need mess. Yeah.

No, I love skating. I used to skate just for cardio and all that. And then I was playing the odd charity game and all that kind of stuff, so I at least wanted to not embarrass myself and all that. Yeah. Mike, I'm going to go like Game 7. We're talking about the 94 range. It's just an epic final. And it goes down to the last minute, the last face-off, the last draw.

Take us through those last few minutes, the anxiety of it, how you lead the team through that moment. Well, that's funny. There's my partner and I, Isaac Chura. We bought all the rights to Game 7. So we're building a whole brand around Game 7. I saw you wearing those shirts. Yeah. So we're coming out with a docuseries and we're going to create a whole brand around game seven but uh game seven um in new york the dying seconds uh i'm not sure

in my i know for sure in my um career that I'd never felt anything that palpable that day going to New York City. I'd pick up Brian Leach. I had a limo driver. I'd pick him up at his apartment, which was a few blocks away. We'd go down Broadway right to the rink, and it was absolutely electric. And we'd go there at 4 o'clock, and we finally got to the garden. Back then, we'd come into the garden, we'd go up the ramp, and they we finally got to the garden back then we'd come into the garden we'd go up the ramp and we could drive they would drive us right up to the ramp so

your back and legs were blown out well then later my career i didn't mind walking up because it was like a flush it was that you would i couldn't yeah but i hated that too that was like a setup so we came up we're coming up with a docuseries with Amazon about that Game 7 game. It is unbelievable. And the guys that did the Connor Show that did the last dance, he did it for us. You're going to have more Emmys than Cups by the time it's done. It's coming out in October.

And we got the Oilers 87. Yeah, it's amazing. Do you ever experience anything like the Canadian Heroes before? Coming down that, going to be sick. And we got the Oilers 87, and we got the, yeah, it's amazing. Hey, do you ever experience anything like the Canadian Heroes before? Come down that, I don't know. Well, you know what's funny? Mike Keenan, so we go to training camp. They hire Mike Keenan, right? We go to training camp, and the first thing Mike Keenan does,

before he says a word, he goes, run it, run it. You know, he's standing up there, run it. And so they turn this video on there and of course the video comes on with some music and there's a 1986 Mets ticker tape parade. And we're watching that going, wow, that's really. And you know why he said he showed that?

Because there wasn't a ticker tape parade video of the New York Rangers winning the Stanley Cup. But the idea that the first day of training camp he started to plant the seed and that's why we're here. We're not here. We're not here to play in the National Hockey League. We're not here to collect a check.

We're not here to, you know. Win the President's Trophy. Win the President's Trophy. We're here. We're here to go down that and get the people out to Canyon of Heroes to celebrate the Stanley Cup. That's what we're here for. And anything less than that is not going to be. And if you're not on board, let me know now and I'll find a

place for you to play. Because you all can play in the league, but not everybody can play on the Stanley Cup winning team. Let me know who's in. Raise your hand if you're in. We're going to do this again for sure. My last one would just be regarding today's game. How happy are you, obviously one of the founding members of the NHL

and bring it to where it is, seeing the game with where it's at now, 32 teams thriving. It's crushing. Your ship through the roof. Yeah, everything. Big guys with skill. It's unreal. It's crazy.

Crazy, crazy skill. You think about we started 21 teams. We're the expansion team. One of the expansion teams went from 16 teams to 21 teams. 16 made the playoffs to 32 teams. You think about the kind of year that you need to teams, 16 made the playoffs, to 32 teams. You think about the kind of year that you need to have just to make the playoffs, just to have the honor of banging your head against the wall for four Game 7 series to try to win the Stanley Cup and how hard that is with the amount of parity in the league right now.

The game is unbelievable. It's fast, skilled. You talk about courage and play, and I just love the journey that the players are going through now. When I watch McDavid, Dreitzel, McKinnon, Kucherov, all the best players, and Stamko is leading their teams, and I could go on and on and on. But to watch these young players try to figure out how to win, and we keep talking about it. You can play in the league.

You can score 50 goals. You can do all all these things there but you make your money during the regular season you make your name in the playoffs and how are you going to figure out how to win you know what i mean that is a completely different level of consciousness uh for these players there and to see them get you know knocked down get back up get knocked down again get back up get on a goal because they didn't get on for a winning goal because they never covered their check because they were a little lazy coming back, and that was a game-deciding goal. And then having to sleep on that and then having to live on that all summer long,

only wait to come back 82 games to get back in that same position and make sure that they don't make that same mistake. So they're not the ones, you know what I mean? Yeah. That, to me, is is is incredible to watch memories for you i'm sure losing and not losing and and being that guy that made that mistake and being that guy that laid at bed because they didn't give you know i mean it didn't give uh you know i didn't feel like i give enough and all that kind of stuff well they got one piece sticks personal chefs they fly on a private plane so you still got a mess yeah they may do that but that won't get them they won't get a couple clicks

couple clicks for a fucking goal right here baby took too long but it was well wait the word or what was it well wait the word good way to end it sick dism dismount, man. Well, weight and worth is good. What's up, guys? Before we continue, I need to talk to you about Viator. Viator is a tool that you can use to plan and book travel experiences around the world. Talking to Grinelli when he went to Italy a few years ago, when he's going back this summer, he used Viator to make it easy, to make it seamless, and to really make his travel experience that much better.

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and I think he does a ton of charity work. He was able to sit down with us for that long, enjoy a tequila or two, and just let the stories fly. I can't imagine what it was like playing on a team with that guy, Biz. The ability to get fired up and just have him lead you must have been incredible to be a part of. So we appreciate the moose, and I hope all you guys enjoyed that interview. Oh, it was so fun just he was so animated early on too i'm happy

that he actually had a few tequilas to loosen up so it was everything uh everything we thought it would be in more and we're so happy that we got him for all you fans out there who who we hadn't had him on in five years man that's another white whale for us we got a few more that we want to get but uh definitely at the top of the charts there so thanks to mess and what a machine on the road he goes hard man during that whole cup final and he he doesn't look he doesn't look a day over 40 years old the guy's what is he 60 he's working out six times a week like i don't if you're gonna go out and have your pops after the broadcast, which he enjoys doing, I guarantee he was up Chelios style,

hitting the treadmill, hitting the weights. It's incredible to see. 63. 63. Looks like he's 40. I mean, what the hell is that? The coolest part of that was that, like, just being around his dad's teams and all those older teams and realizing, like realizing what it took and what games needed.

If a game needed a fight, if a game needed a goal, a big hit. That is just learning without even realizing you're learning. You're just being there and you're taking it all in and you're seeing what works and what doesn't work from such a young age. And you're becoming a leader without even understanding that it's happening right in front of your own eyes. So incredible life story, Hall of Famer, and a true legend of the NHL. We want to thank him. Some other news that broke that I thought was really cool, especially considering the momentum and what the PWHL has done for women and women's hockey,

is Jessica Campbell got named the first full-time assistant coach in the NHL with the Seattle Kraken. So Dan Bilesma has Jessica Campbell. They were in, what's their team that went to back-to-back Calder Cup Finals? The Firebirds, isn't it? The Firebirds, yeah. Coachella Valley. The Coachella Valley Firebirds.

And Bosma gets that job, which everyone kind of had figured was going to happen, and he brings up Jessica Campbell. And what a moment for women. I mean, they have their own league now. They're finally connected in the PWHL. Now there's a woman head coach in the NHL. So that's stuff that for girls who are maybe listening or into hockey and watching the NHL, you see a woman behind the bench, like it just feels good for them getting into their game

and figuring out that there is a future for them in hockey. And we had a chance to meet her in Nashville last year at the draft. I think she was eating at that Blanco place we were at. We went there 11 times. We probably met everyone. If you went there during the draft in Nashville, we met you. So we'll have to get her on at some point to talk about her journey. But great to see stick taps for her and, yeah, open invite.

It'll be interesting to hear about everything going on, especially at the fact that they ended up going to the Calder Cup final back-to-back years and losing to the Hershey Bears. They lost Game 7 overtime last year, and then this year they lost in Game 6. What a kick in the dick going to the finals of the Calder Cup back-to-back years and not bringing one home, but

nonetheless, success and good for her. And the run in the AHL, I went to a Calder Cup Final and lost as you did, Biz. It sucks, and you're like, oh, my God, I just played that long. We didn't win the Calder Cup. We're in the AHL.

You paid more in rent than you made in bonus money for playoffs. You're losing money. It costs you money to go to the Calder Cup finals. You end up spending more. But I do think that the playoff atmosphere and the big games and the Calder Cup cup final it just prospects moving forward like a guy like Shane Wright that's only going to help him when he's able to become a big-time NHL player and hopefully Seattle makes long playoff runs those are the things you look

back on that at the time you maybe don't realize and you it's playoff hockey and it doesn't matter what league you're in it's a different game and you know how much you got to step your game up so great for her congratulations Jessica I think another cool story, and this really fits into R.A. R.A. would love this one, but the Dallas Stars are launching their own direct-to-consumer streaming platform called Victory Plus. And Victory Plus will be available for download on all smart TVs, tablets, smartphones in September of this year. And basically, I'm reading off this kind of write-up of it, ensuring fans within the Dallas Stars regional territory of Texas, Oklahoma,

Louisiana, Arkansas, being able to enjoy content wherever they are on their preferred device. So fans outside the Stars regional territory will be able to enjoy Victory Plus to watch a robust menu of ancillary content provided by the team. Ancillary. Don't know what that means, but it's a cool sounding word, and I don't even know if I'm saying it right. Hell of a job.

But RA's been all over this in terms of ballet sports and all the issues with watching teams when you're blacked out in certain regions that make no sense. And ballet sports apparently is in a little bit of trouble. For example, my brother Colin lives in Nashville. He has YouTube TV. He can't watch. He said that that's the only thing you can't watch is predators games. If he's on YouTube TV.

So I know that there's some frustrations with fans all across North America and watching their favorite teams play, but it seems like this victory plus thing, at least for Dallas stars fans is an attempt to be able to allow everyone to be able to see your games, no matter where you're living. So that's kind of a cool story. I hope more teams get into that. Yeah, I think the Suns owner did it too in Phoenix

where they just basically run their own broadcast. So it'd be nice to see more of this and less of the bullshit that R.A.'s always bitching about. And one more reminder about the Chicklets Cup, September 19th 21st in london and there's some few spots spots left in the roller and co-ed barstool sports.com slash events biz can before i know you gotta run before uh you take off can i get your breakdown from now until the end of august i said you back to jackson right now and then when when are you off to victoria yeah so i actually drove up

because the season got pushed back so much with all the the awards and the draft so I had to spend an extra few days in Arizona I was hoping to get to Jackson a little bit sooner uh but I drove up there on on Wednesday and then uh um and then got there Thursday and then I left Friday for Stampede so I haven't even had a chance to spend much time there. Although, uh, Ed Jovanovsky was in town on Thursday. So I met him for lunch. He was in Jackson. He was in Jackson. Yeah.

Where does he stay there? Uh, some really nice hotel. It wasn't the four seasons. I forget the name of it. Yeah. I think it was like 2,500 a night, which is not a lot of money for him, but, uh, he also snapped a lot more tape to tape passes. Um, but, um, I'm going to, I'm going to head there today and I'll probably be there till maybe Sunday. not a lot of money for him but uh he also snapped a lot more tape to tape passes um but um i'm gonna

i'm gonna head there today and i'll probably be there till maybe sunday there is a chance i pop over to go to gosser to help out at the gretzky hockey school on friday but given everything that we've done the last month i kind of want to just relax and and take it easy in jackson and get off the grid for about five days uh i'll probably go golf that shooting star um go on a couple big heights i've never been uh i've never been fly fishing before and on i did once oh you have okay uh spezza i was with jason spezza no we were at a camp in vale during the lockout season and a bunch of nhlers got together and one day we could go do that dude i didn't sniff catching a fucking fish.

Okay, it's hard. I had no rhythm. It was like me dancing. I was a robot with this rod. You got to be very delicate. I'm guessing you might not catch a fish either. Because I don't know about your rhythm, baby. I got a couple experts bringing me, so hopefully I can have somebody better teaching me than

Jason Spezza with the silky mitts. Maybe a guy who's a little bit more used to catching the fish. I don't even know what fish you catch with fly fishing. Or can you catch different types of fish? I've learned a little bit about fishing from talking to people recently, like how bass fishing is fun because bass fight the most. They're very jerky, and you actually feel like you're doing something um i have a few buddies that are big into like the the the marlin fishing that's when you're really battling the elements and you got the whole fucking best on but i'm just hoping to go for a nice light day on the river and my understanding is on the idaho side

um of the teton valley or teton region is some of the best fly fishing in the world. So very interested to kind of get off the grid for five, six days. And then after that, it's just a drive up and I'm going to be in Vancouver for two months this summer. I'll pop over to Vancouver or Victoria for a little bit, but my places are rented there. And I kind of wanted to spend some time with my friends in Vancouver a little more this summer. I got one girlfriend, Jackie the alien. She's got a kid on the way. It's due any day now.

I'm kind of in the stage of my life where all my friends are having kids so I got to find a girlfriend and a wife and have some form of family in the next few years here or I'm going to be some fucking bum when I'm fucking 50, 60 years old just hanging out by myself. Or you'll be like the biggest

wheel 53-year-old in the history of wheeling. You don't want to be that guy. I don't know if I want to be fucking 60 years old still going to bars. Like Salt Bae? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good example, although he looks a lot younger too. He's on the mess regime.

But no, although we're going to be hopping on, folks, every week, me and Witt, just to kind of touch base and shoot the shit for 10, 15 minutes and then throw it off to these awesome interviews that we got banked, I'm looking forward to a little time off and a recharge too. I got to get back in the gym, get back in shape, and definitely lay off the sauce a little bit. Well, somehow you still look very good for the bender you've been on,

and I don't even know if you've worked out in the last month. So impressive to see you go hard, and not many people can bring the thunder that often the way you do. I'm very appreciative for you as a friend, as a teammate with this podcast. My summer, I'm kind of with you. I think that all Chicklets fans probably maybe need a little bit of a break from us. And that, like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, that happens. Heartness makes, what is it?

Jesus Christ. Heartness makes the heart grow silly is the term I think you're looking for. Distance makes the heart grow fonder? Is that what it is? Yeah, that's the one. You got it. Oh, my God. We are mutants.

I thought I had it. Yeah, you did in my mind. And then I was like, oh, he doesn't have it either. Hey, you got it, Rico? Yeah, I's the one. Oh, my God. We are mutants. I thought I had it. Yeah, you did in my mind. And then I was like, oh, he doesn't have it either. Hey, you got it, Rico? Yeah, I got it. You don't got it. But I think that this summer is going to be amazing for me with a newborn and Cal and Wyatt and Ryder doing a bunch of activities. Ryder's actually at a baseball camp in Nantucket right now.

He's all fired up for that. And I'm just looking forward to just spending time with the family and my friends. It has been a crazy season. I know for you Chicklets fans, many of you were a little disappointed with the end of the season. Overall, I try to look at it as a whole. I thought we had a great year. Things went a little haywire at the end. So be it. Next year, we will be back bigger, stronger, better than ever. I hope everyone has an amazing summer. I think for me, it's one of those things on every day looking for a little improvement, right? Like whether it's as a father or a husband or somebody at work, whatever you do, whatever your life goal is, it can be tiny, tiny, tiny improvements every day. And over the course of months and years,

it adds up to being a bigger better man or woman whoever you may be listening so i i can't thank you enough i know we say this often this is the greatest job in the world it is a job i think sometimes um i i maybe don't appreciate what we have going here as much as i should and and there's certain moments you realize i can't believe this is what we're doing for a living and how lucky we are and without you listening we're absolutely nothing and we have nothing so thank you so much I hope you guys enjoy your summer I think

that this summer is a good time to recharge for everyone in the hockey world all of a sudden September 15th we come back around training camp begins the excitement of a new season begins and we'll be able to catch up with all of you and the last thing I'll say is many of the people who've been upset and really sick of RA, I think it goes back to people I meet a lot that are fans of the show that tell

me and it's the greatest thing we can ever hear is you help me through a tough time. Whether it's maybe battle and depression or some substance abuse things, just having a couple hours of listening to our show and taking your mind off things and letting me or Biz know that it's been a huge help. That's like the most amazing, fulfilling compliment I could ever receive to know that just us talking helped you in any which way. So I think of RA right now. And I think that even if you're down on RA, just thinking of somebody who is going through a tough time as many, many people listening right now have been through themselves. So I hope that instead of kind of piling on a guy, you'd reach out and say, I hope that you're able to get the help you need and

figure out where you're at in life and come back and join Chiclets as a bigger, better, stronger person. And we appreciate all you guys so much. So think of others. The golden rule I was always told by my dad is treat others the way you'd like to be treated i know on this show we talk a lot of shit it's all in good fun and and i'm very lucky to do what i do so i hope everyone has a wonderful summer and we will be back mondays as biz said just probably quick 10-15 minutes before we throw to the interview but uh biz i love you buddy you are an all-timer, and I thank you for everything. Thank you.

Well said, Whit. What a fucker. You were buzzing today. You really figured out that back half. I'm going to the beach after this. I'm not even a beach guy, but now I got these new umbrellas. You stick in the sand. Maybe not new in most people's life, but for me, the umbrella at the beach and not having

to be in the sun, it's a lifesaver. So I'm on to do that. Well, I'll send you a picture of the fish I catch this week. Okay, yeah. I'll be in Jackson. It can't be like the guy catches it and then hands you the rod, though. Okay, deal. All right.

I'll post the video. Love you guys. Thanks so much. Have a great summer. Bye. You can get liquor cheap, but how much is your love? They say a're drunk at speech It's just so good that

I like to poke a bear I like to stir the pot But then you come on in And take it up a notch You hit me with a cheap shot, a cheap shot She hit me with a cheap shot, a cheap shot I bet she needs a detox to cleanse her mind Another week rolls in, we're on the road again Thought I was safe and sound in my minivan

But I said something that crossed the line And I know she felt it So I said she felt it. So I said she could have a free one on the chain. She went below the bell. She had me with a cheap shot, a cheap shot. She had me with a cheap shot, a cheap shot. I think we need a deep talk We've been so on time