Start With A Win - Adrian Koehler: This Is Why Most Business Coaching is Bullshit

Starting point is 00:00:00 Most coaches won't go there because it's uncomfortable, but I, you know, I told myself from the very beginning, if I'm not risking the relationship in every conversation, I'm overpaid because a broken commitment is a cry for help. So if I'm not delivering on my commitment, I'm screaming saying, Adam, hey, my boss, Adam, please talk to me. Please talk to me. My broken commitment is a cry for help. I need help. So let me just start with this, man. Most coaching is bullshit.

Starting point is 00:00:28 Welcome to Start With a Win, where we unpack leadership, personal growth and development, and how to build a better business. Let's go. Coming to you from Area 15 Ventures and Start With a Win headquarters, it's Adam Contos with Start with a Win. We'll get ready because today we've got a real expert who can help us crack the code of leadership coaching. We're talking about Adrian Kaler, the founder of Take New Ground, a global executive coaching

Starting point is 00:00:53 and training firm. This guy isn't just talking theories. He's in the trenches coaching everyone. from executives to entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership. And get this, his client list includes some heavy hitters, like Nike, the U.S. Navy SEALs, and even Virgin Hyperloop 1. With a background that's about as diverse as it gets, think philanthropy, ministry, activism, and even medicine, Adrian thrives in tough environments and isn't afraid of the difficult

Starting point is 00:01:22 conversations. So buckle up, because Adrian is here to give us the no bullshit, about leadership and coaching. Adrian, welcome to start with a win. Oh, man, so excited to be here, Adam. Awesome. Hey, this is going to be a fun conversation because you and I have a lot of similar thoughts

Starting point is 00:01:39 on this whole coaching and executive leadership development and things like that part. You've participated with a lot of amazing companies, you know, Navy SEALs, not really company, but some amazing people and Nike and, you know, Hyperloop 1, things like that. But you and I share this philosophy, about coaching and we're going to blow up some of the norms today. So let me just start with

Starting point is 00:02:04 this, man. Most coaching is bullshit. Let's dig in there. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind when I say that, what do you think? First thing is, I've heard that before. Oh, yeah, that's on the top. That's the top banner of my website. And why would it be? Why would it be? It's like, I've been doing this. I've been doing this for this way, I guess, for about 15 years. let's see the bowl is never empty that's what they say meaning like you're always in some thought about something or anytime I'm starting some kind of training with an executive team for a couple of days I'm like hey by the way

Starting point is 00:02:41 you already think you know what this is because you've gone to an offsite before and so same thing with thinking about coaching they think about coaches everybody's got some kind of experience and they probably don't like the person or they were unimpressed by the person or the person was you know, not gutsy or just like, you know, there to sell something and or at the same point, like most coaches are just there to kind of try to encourage people into the next phase of their life. And that's great. And I would say like in my 20s and 30s championing people

Starting point is 00:03:13 would have been probably the theme that like, who am I with other people? I'm a champion for them. But I realize that's really for me, that's not enough. Yeah. It's is that you go ahead. It's fascinating. You know, some of these things you're starting to unpack here because you're like you show up at this this corporate coaching event and the first thing you're going to do is a team building event and then you're going to meet each other and then you're going to be vulnerable with each other and then you're going to like have this breakthrough moment and but I mean you're you're starting to already a little bit unpack something I mean at least feels like a little bit different to me right oh yeah I mean even that I um it's not always a great

Starting point is 00:03:55 experience, I would say, for people that come to an executive offsite with me, because I don't follow that model at all. I have always talked to them before we get in the room. I've done usually some kind of leadership assessment. We use this thing called the Harrison, which illuminates tensions they're in. But I use that to kind of get to the conversations they're up until now I've been unwilling to have. And the results that are being generated by their by their resistance to claim current reality. And so I know walking in, if I got six people, there's six, six very different ideas about what's happening, and sometimes six very different ideas about where things need to go. So I actually don't start with any kind of ice breakers, stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:04:35 I actually start with, I spend a couple hours setting up the context, we say, meaning like, hey, I want you to think about how you're thinking, and people don't do that. They just think that what they're thinking is thinking, meaning like that I'm not like relating to the world in such a way that it impacts my experience. and it impacts who I am, quote unquote, and it impacts what's possible, that my relationship, let's see, my perception of things is the thing that it is. This might be too weird. But the way that I'm relating to the thing actually generates how I am in the world.

Starting point is 00:05:15 So most folks aren't in that conversation. They just think, oh, you know, I'm Adam or, hey, I'm Adrian. That's who I am because Freud convinces of that instead of, oh, no, I'm making choices that generate my experience, and from that experience that I make up, I don't think I've made it up, I think it's happening. And that is what is possible. So I spend some time, much more articulate than that, slower than that, of course, I'm giving some bullet points here, because I know your audience is smart. I spend time setting that up before I'm going to bring the hammer. Because I know that there are, I know the conversation that need to happen. And I've always,

Starting point is 00:05:53 obviously get hired by the heavy in the room, the CEO in the room. I know where he or she wants things to go. I know his or her view of the dynamics in the room. So I'm going to slowly set the room up to crack the room open. And then I have nothing to do except for to sit back and watch where people are and have a conversation about that first instead of teaching something. People always want to buy some level of content because they think that makes them smarter. But obviously they don't want to know that. Otherwise, they already know it. So, anywho. Well, I mean, let me, let's dig into that a little bit because it seems like, okay, the CEO has you come into the room because they're sick of the, you know, let's just call what it is, the bullshit of everybody sitting in the room

Starting point is 00:06:38 trying to deliver what they think the CEO wants. Sure. Which generally isn't what the CEO wants, it seems. I don't know. I mean, you tell me, does the CEO need a head check also? I've always. This is how I'm annoying to people is I just say whatever's happening is actually what you want to have happening. Why? Especially if you're a smart CEO and they're all smart and they're all educated and they're all ambitious. It's more like, hey, this has been happening and I'll just ask, how long has it been going on that way? He's like, oh man, this has been going on for five years. And I'll say, I wonder why you like it. I'll say, what? I don't like it. I don't like it. Well, I don't know. If anything I just assert, anything you don't want in your

Starting point is 00:07:20 life it leaves so let's entertain the idea that although you tell yourself you don't like it there's something maybe even unseen to you some kind of payoff you get for the dysfunction that you've been tolerating can we just explore that for a second why you like the fact that tom that's been the you know chief revenue officer and underperforming for two years why you haven't fired him why do you like keeping tom around and he'll say blah blah blah so everybody's on the hook at least in my room like we're just you know personal responsibility is the only uh source of freedom I like that people don't usually go there you know they usually go to circumstances generate my reality instead of I either create it or allow it sounds like a locus of control

Starting point is 00:08:08 problem yeah yes yeah I don't know if I wouldn't call it a problem I would call it a locus of control conversation that's for sure okay yeah I mean it's You know, it's like, as soon as we call something wrong, bad, or broken, we don't look at it. Right. Because if something's bad, and I think I'm good, and we all have a pretty self-flattering view, if I think I'm smart and able, and then this thing is bad, and it's on my watch, I don't want to look at it. So if it's a locus of control issue, for sure, let's explore it, man. Let's just say we lie to ourselves, because we do. You know, I cut my teeth in this business.

Starting point is 00:08:49 I hired a guy that had been doing this named Dan Ticini. He's almost 70 years old now. His first coaching company, let's see. When he started, his coaching company was called, wait for it, the coaching company. Wow. He's early, early. He came out of the human potential movement in the 70s. And Dan is the goat.

Starting point is 00:09:06 You put him in a room with 30 people, I'm telling you it's Mozart. As soon as I got to see him work, I was like, oh, my God. I mean, the nerd that I am because I'm like, oh, you know, the possibility of influencing people for their benefit, that's just been my jam. as long as I can remember. And I hired Dan to come in and because I just started this private foundation, this rich kid that I helped and he wanted to start giving his money away. Long story short, he wanted to work in the prison system. Long, I'll miss all the details here for the sake of time.

Starting point is 00:09:36 Met Dan, hired Dan. And therefore I, Dan was a employee of mine, but a mentor of mine. And we worked in the prison system. We were doing three day leadership trainings with murderers. all lifers and a mantra in that world was we're all criminals and some of us are just more arrestable than others and that's the truth in my view everywhere meaning we're all full of shit at some level you know like we you know who lies to themselves who's not who they want to be who you know cuts themselves short who doesn't keep their word when i say criminal i just mean we don't

Starting point is 00:10:14 live our word right and if we can just get over that the horror of that that i'm not who i you know think I am and not who I want you to think I am and stop playing a game of can I impress Adam can I just be here as a real human being then life happens otherwise we're just doing some kind of persona thing so anytime I'm in the room back to your with a CEO it's like he might be telling me can you come solve the issues and I'm going to say well first off if we don't get to the fact that you have created a system by which these issues persist then it doesn't matter what I do, because if we work up a new, whatever, set of vision of values, in the same type of thinking that created the dysfunction, the new stuff will be the old stuff soon enough.

Starting point is 00:10:59 So don't waste your time with me. We got to reset the context. We got to reset the soil in which reality is being formed and results are being formed and patterns are being formed. So anyway, they're all on the hook. Okay. This is fascinating. you use a term radical authenticity.

Starting point is 00:11:17 Is it where you're digging with this? Is that the direction? Okay. I love it. How about let's be freaking honest with ourselves, folks. Yeah. Hold up the mirror, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:29 So, yeah. I mean, whenever, and that's how I, you know, have ended up generating the type of, you know, work and the great people I've gotten to work with is, and that's why most coaching is bullshit because people want to like, you know, put icing on a shit sandwich. And I'm like, no, no, no. let's figure out let's can we just look at the shit sandwich for a second i mean one of the

Starting point is 00:11:50 one of the companies you mentioned uh in the um the the the hello you know the intro part i remember i was called in because the founder was a quote unquote a problem you know which happens a ton you know somebody private equity firms you know board members somebody you know can you come work with you know jo schmo and i remember sitting down with this guy who i've been working with for several years and just I don't know 20 minutes in this guy is world class engineer world class and people had been spending a lot of time dancing around him and so anyway but the point being I sit down with him and you know by probably 20 minutes in he's weeping because you know he says to me I'm killing my baby I'm killing this company I'm like yeah you are do you want to stop

Starting point is 00:12:41 or do you want to just keep with the stories you're living in that give you the justification that how you've been showing up is necessary because if you want to do that we don't have a conversation to have but if you want to disrupt yourself and do the radical authenticity it's like yeah any problems in my life i'm generating that's a tough thing and most people don't want to live that out which i get it it's a tough thing to believe i even just a couple days ago talking with some very, an old friend about his marriage. He's a very successful guy. And he's complaining about his wife and the issues they're having.

Starting point is 00:13:22 And I just said, well, what if your thoughts and feelings have nothing to do with her? Like, let's just say your experience is what you're generating. Now, that's a pretty risky belief because there's no out. There's no escape. and I think I mean I've ended up working with tons of elite folks and like mostly athletes to be honest because they like the hill they like that hill to climb you know because they don't actually don't feel good about blaming someone else I mean it's it's on the surface level um relieving but at a deep level guys like yourself guys like myself that like to take on a challenge if I'm blaming

Starting point is 00:14:07 somebody else, I'm not the guy that I want to be for me, right? So it's a big hill to climb. Most coaches won't go there because it's uncomfortable. But I, you know, I told myself from the very beginning, if I'm not risking the relationship in every conversation, I'm overpaid. I like that. Yeah. I like that. I mean, that's, realistically, that's what you should ask for from a coach. What's a coach supposed to do? They're supposed to push you beyond where you're comfortable. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So what do you see in, I mean, let's talk about like, you know, is there like an average in the leadership gap where you're seeing, you know, it's typically, does it start with that external locus of control or that I'm blaming everybody else for my problems or I'm unwilling to live to my potential or to admit to my issues? Is that generally where you're seeing things start or is there something particular that you're seeing repeatedly patterns in businesses in this day and age that are the challenges?

Starting point is 00:15:07 Yeah. That's a great question. Well, where things start, because we've always been just referral-based company, we've never marketed at all. And we get clients from clients. Right. Where things start is something's not working. Unfortunately, they call us in when, you know, we do call it like the shit sandwich principle, where problems come to you as a shit hors d'oeuvre. He's got it all over their face by now. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. Well, you know, problems come as a shit hors d'oeuvre. Who wants to deal with that, right? So, isn't happening missed quarterly meetings you know this guy's disconnected it'll be fine it'll be fine send that back but issues come back as a shit sandwich and who wants to eat that so you send that and then here comes a two-course meal and then all of a sudden you've got a shit buffet and things are bad and now it's actually very you know very complicated and everybody's complicit so that's where things start um and i think to your question you know what's happening behind behind the scenes is people would prefer to double down on vision and not double down on like a sober view of current reality.

Starting point is 00:16:20 Right. Because if we talk about what's actually happening, if we talk about the relationships that are happening and the thinking behind the relationships, that's so much more vulnerable. So where do things start? things always start with there are there are we're not getting the outcomes we want and we're we're trying to find a place to blame it and blame shame and credit will never generate a new future period so that's usually where people are they're like trying to like figure it out instead of like explore it which that distinction might not make sense to folks i mean when i say explored i mean I wonder how I have helped generate whatever's here.

Starting point is 00:17:04 If that makes sense. Like, oh, you know, if I can be, it's like, oh, it's Tom's fault. Well, I don't know. I mean, how many conversations? I mean, so Tom is blowing it now. I used to have a client named Tom and he hated the fact that I always used Tom as like my go-to, you know, problem, problem child. But anyway, so let's say Tom is blowing it now. I'll ask a leader.

Starting point is 00:17:24 When did you start seeing it happen? Let's say, like, this isn't the beginning. this isn't like an anomaly, but it is the result of the way you've related to Tom up until now. So how when, tell, let's, let's be honest, how many conversations did you know that you, quote, unquote, should or as a responsible leader ought to have for the sake of shareholder value, for the sake of your integrity, for the sake of the relationship with Tom? How many didn't you have? Oh, man, a couple. Really? Just a couple?

Starting point is 00:17:56 Let's talk through it. But why do that? because if you don't if you're not willing to account in that way then that type of accounting is coming back right so however you're relating is the future anyway so um that's usually the context that's a big weird answer to your question i'm not kind of you know but that's it's it's always a thinking issue that's why people get annoyed because they want us to talk strategy with them which we will and strategy is important but everything comes back to relating for us either how the relationship happening on the team but for sure how you're relating to reality like what i'm making up about

Starting point is 00:18:33 reality for example you and i are on this podcast right now it seems like we're on one podcast but we're not you're on what you think is happening i'm on what i think is happening you know i mean we talked about hey can you have you ask me hey have some short answers and i'm thinking i'm not having short answer right so i'm in that conversation like stop stop so anyway we're we're in we're in We're in our own versions of what's happening. Yeah. And whatever we're committed to shapes what that is. I love that.

Starting point is 00:19:05 Let me ask you this. When I do, and I did a presentation on leadership, I call it a group coaching, whatever it was, two weeks ago for some major leaders in a large government organization. And one of the questions I always ask when I'm in the room after we've had probably 30, 45 minutes of discussion about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, the, the challenges of the business, things like that, is I stop and I go, how many of you know somebody who needs to be fired right now? And you know what's interesting, Adrian, is pretty much every hand in the room goes up. Sure. Why are those people sitting on that knowledge and not taking action? as a leader i'm editing my first answer um have you've seen it too i'm sure oh of course well

Starting point is 00:20:09 you know the the kind of edited for tv version is they're just cowards you know they're just i mean meaning they don't want the trouble and the trouble and they're also on the hook at some level and there's some vulnerability to have the conversation with the person Because if that person is honest, especially if they go out of nowhere and fire the person, if I'm that person, I'm like, hey, how long have you seen this? How long have you known this? Why is this the first time, you know, most, well, let me give some people some slack. Is this type of, well, it's called intervention, this type of leadership, people don't learn in business school. Right. Right. And they don't practice in their own life. They learn how to run great spreadsheets. They don't, they're not taught how to have an interview. in conversation in a way that'll generate some breakthrough for the other person. Right. For several reasons, that's a whole three-hour conversation about why I might not do that. But first off, that's it.

Starting point is 00:21:08 And we're also busy, you know, we talk about the four survival needs, which are looking good, feeling good, being right, and being in control. So it's also strategically beneficial to have a problem child around. So that if I'm not generating results, I can tag it on that person. they're never going to say that but they also give themselves credit for being like a nice person oh i'm just going to keep giving the person some slack so they get to be superior to that person like having some having a problem child around is there's so many payoffs to that behind the scenes payoffs like i get to look good because i'm not firing him you know him because i know his wife

Starting point is 00:21:45 and his kids and what would he do next and all this i get to seem all altruistic and then i have to pick up the slack for him and i get to play the martyr and then i get to utilize that to not do any kind of endeavors because I don't have time and I'm so, you know, there's like so many. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to. A lot to impact. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:04 Well, so many conversations in the context. But what's not happening is an honest dialogue with oneself about what am I here to get done, like the aim. What am I here to get done? Or if I work for, you know, a big organization, what am I paid to get done? And am I willing to actually own that as if that's a. the stand that I am. That's a weird philosophical way of saying it, but I think of it that way, meaning like, I'm paid to do this and this is a part of me. It's not like work-life balance.

Starting point is 00:22:35 Like, okay, that's just what the work I'm doing and then this is who I am on the side. No, no. What if I actually am my word and things that show up that are contrary to that bother me in such a way that at least I'll go inquire about it? Like, hey, this thing isn't working. You know, this guy's not performing. Most people think they have to have an answer. of having the right question because if you were to like I always say you know current reality is always looking for a spokesperson so like if let's say I was your problem employee and you came to me and I was blowing it and you're and you're just like hey Adrian I've noticed over the last three months you know your numbers have been going down have you noticed that yeah can we talk about it

Starting point is 00:23:19 and I'll probably be defensive and all that but if if I can get the fact that you you are you are relentlessly committed to results and deeply committed to me as a human, that conversation moves. Because a broken commitment is a cry for help. So if I'm not delivering on my commitment, I'm screaming saying, Adam, hey, my boss, Adam, please talk to me. Please talk to me. My broken commitment is a cry for help. I need help. And especially with dudes in particular, I know this for myself is that I always need more help than I want. Always. I need more help than I want. I think I'm going to get like a, you know, an extra star on the board if I could do it by myself instead of thinking about life in the context of team. So all that's going on in the

Starting point is 00:24:09 background, but at the end of the day, they're just cowards, just like all of us. You know, there's things we're not dealing with. And, you know, that's why for me, courage is like the, the, the, the anecdote to most of life's trouble. It's not answers. It's not strategies. It's not new ideas. It's courage. I'm willing to face it.

Starting point is 00:24:29 It seems like that might be one of the largest leadership gaps then, right? Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah. Well, it's, it's, um, because it's one of the biggest human gaps. I mean, what's the distinction? There's not much distinction between the low level employees. and the leader except for what's at stake.

Starting point is 00:24:53 And so things are just amplified, right? So if I'm just, you know, the guy on the assembly line, there's not a lot of fear. Why? Because if I mess something up, I might get away with it and, you know, whatever. But if I'm, if I am running a company and it's, you know, vulnerable. Like I played football in college. And I'll always assert that corner is the toughest position on the field.

Starting point is 00:25:15 By the way, I was a corner. Why? Because you're out there by yourself. it's like if I mess it up if I don't catch this guy when he runs a post corner if I don't give him a shove and then do whatever it takes everybody in the entire stands

Starting point is 00:25:29 will know whose fault it is that the guy's in the end zone nobody else I'm on the hook right right so you know there's it's just human it's just human we prefer to do what it takes

Starting point is 00:25:45 not to lose instead of wonder who I could become to fully win. Like that. And it takes courage. That's a big distinction. It takes courage. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:56 It takes courage to venture. So what, right, to like, you had to question, even for successful people like yourself or any of our clients we work with, to give up on the, to, let's see, to not lean on the persona that people love and make myself vulnerable, question myself, dare, to reinvent myself to be to continue to transform that takes energy it takes calories it takes humility it takes feedback it takes you know vulnerability with other people that's what people want it's just there's a huge price for it and i mean that's it's amazing and the price is emotional it seems yeah well it is emotional it's it's like it's ego it's ego yeah it's like it's like

Starting point is 00:26:48 you're taking off a piece of your ego and handing it off to somebody, right? Yeah. Uh-huh. Well, it questions some core beliefs about what, you know, who am I? That, that question, everybody is swimming in. Some are aware of it. Some of them aren't. And if your listeners are looking for some kind of book recommendation, you might do this kind of stuff often. One of my favorite books is a book called The Courage to Be Disliked. now if you've been listening and you realize how brash I might be you think oh this is why this guy likes his book that's not actually what the book's about it's like good to go be a jerk somewhere um they're like duh adrian of course you like that no the book is about um it's actually survey of uh Freudian psychology versus Adlerian psychology so Freud convinced the war they're both where they were compatriots at the same time Freud got all the ink because Freud wrote about the human psyche in a way that is in alignment with the victim mindset, I would say. Meaning, Freud said we are etiological. Like, I am the effect. Something else is the cause, right? External locus of control.

Starting point is 00:28:00 That's why every, you know, most, almost all therapy is Freudian. Like, oh, you have, you know, authority issues. What was your relationship like with your father? So start when you're for. Yeah, blame. You know, that's just what people do. So then there could be some great resource for that. Cool.

Starting point is 00:28:15 I mean, I've made a lot of money, juxtaposing me versus therapists early in my career. But, you know, there could be some discovery there. That's cool. But there's just no life there. Right. Now I'm just trying not to be my dad. So anyway, that's Freud. And then, but Adler, his theory was called teleological, which is, I am what I'm committed to.

Starting point is 00:28:37 Now, that's a whole different conversation. Because no matter what happened yesterday, I could be committed to something new today. And all of a sudden, I'm reborn. and i'm sure your listeners love jordan peterson he talks about this a lot that that the your aim and life naturally generates the hierarchy of concerns right so if my main aim is looking good in front of my peers or not losing my job or impressing blah blah blah that will set up what i'm concerned about and other things might not right so to your point if like if i think that my that who adrian is is very precious and i can't

Starting point is 00:29:15 dare to not be what I think I should be or want to be, then I'm like, you know, I'm skating on thin ice my whole life instead of saying, oh, man, I'm a mess at times. I'm a mixed bag, man. I am like the most altruistic guy and I'm the most self, you know, self-serving guy. I'm very honest and I lie like a dog. You know, I'm very hard working and I'm really lazy. All those things can happen. You know why? Because they do. And I'm not concerned about the fact that at times those things show up in my life you know like i i i remember feeling guilty even in college i'd like take a nap and i would hope people wouldn't know i was taking a nap why is that because you were intense and on all the time well in my mind i was just like oh man if i'm taking a nap am i lazy

Starting point is 00:30:01 right you know what i mean yeah i mean adler's got this other great thing we used to talk about in prison all the time um we used to call it life sentences but he calls them life lies that all of us have some kind of deep, from your identity concern. The thing I don't want to be. And if we don't watch it, like, so I've got a couple. One of them is that I'm lazy. Now, I'm like a, if you watch my life, people that talk to me about my pace and what I'm up to, they're tired just by looking at my calendar.

Starting point is 00:30:31 But doesn't matter, I am concerned that I'm not working hard enough. Or one of my bigger ones is like, oh, I'm dumb. I'm not smart enough. Now, I coach world-class minds. I speak on stages like yourself. I put stuff out and people say it changes their life. But for me, there's a conversation back here from a long time ago that I'm not smart enough. And Adler said, if you don't watch it, we all live with these life lies and spend our lives trying to prove them wrong.

Starting point is 00:31:03 so if somebody's not aware of the like we do this four-day leadership training called the revenant process which i'm sure any of your listeners would love to come to because i get the way that you roll and the purpose of that training one of one of the statements in the you know purpose statement that we cover before in the ground rules is is to illuminate the ideas that are governing our lives so a lot of folks live out avoiding the fears that actually are a resource for them. Because there's things they're scared of and they don't want to get close to them. You know, we've worked, we've, you know, forever, I mean, especially in the last few years,

Starting point is 00:31:48 we've thought about, oh, fear is bad. Well, I don't know. Let's just say fear is an invitation to a conversation you don't want to have. So once you, you know, put your head right into it. And I wonder what's in there for me. And maybe what I'm most scared of is the biggest invitation to, community, which I'm dying for. It's only lonely at the top because we've decided nobody else can handle the,

Starting point is 00:32:12 the, kind of the, oh, I'm trying to get poetic with the words here, but everybody that's really, that's smart. They're like really eccentric and really smart and they're dysfunctional and they don't want people to get close to them out of fear that if someone gets close, they'll especially for dudes I will lose their respect so instead I'll be it's lonely at the top which we've decided

Starting point is 00:32:40 is so so I could be isolated and justified and nobody knows what it's like to be me which the more honest thing is I don't want anybody to know what it's like to be me interesting a lot of assertions there fun stuff to play with yeah totally totally so Adrian

Starting point is 00:32:57 as we start to wrap this up. I mean, you've unpacked a lot of really self-reflection key pieces for leaders here, things that make people wonder. Hopefully. Oh, yeah. I think you have accomplished that for sure. Give me a key tip that you would tell leaders in order to, you know, open this door a little easier. What can they think about as we start to wrap this up? Yeah. Well, if you're a leader, thank you. first off, the world moves based on people that decide to step up and make a difference. So if you decided to be a leader, thank you.

Starting point is 00:33:37 And we're recording this a day after Father's Day, which, man, I just started to get emotional thinking about it. I just love dads. I love, you know, I think the masculine spirit is essential in our culture, and we could do five hours on that. Or I could anyway. I've done lots of ideas there. But if you're a leader, thank you.

Starting point is 00:33:57 what would i say first off you're probably a leader because you're bothered you want something to happen that's not happening now and i would i guess invite you uh there's so much common thinking that um you ought not be too much you ought to you know soften things up you ought to in the name of empathy, which most people use empathy. And I think it really, they don't even know what the word means, that when you tone yourself down, I would just ask you at least to have a space in your life, either with yourself or with a key friend where you don't tone yourself down. You just let it rip. Like, what's really there for you? You know, what's going on for you? Especially men, especially men. There are things, there are conversations that you want to have, probably conversations

Starting point is 00:34:53 you want to have that you might think, I'm never going to get to have this before I die. And I would just say, at least for yourself, if that's at a journaling practice, or I would do it with a trusted friend just because it's good to have somebody else in the conversation with you, have some unfiltered conversation with somebody. And if you're hyper, you know, solution focused, which I'm sure you are at him, I know I am, my business partner, Dan, that I talked about, when I was going through a divorce, he said, you need to vent man which was true why because i was always thinking about okay i'm pissed about this okay how am i responsible what can i do and like you know solve the problem no i need to get real

Starting point is 00:35:35 with the conversations that are going on a few levels down so in both ways one for your own personal health and one for your own exploration of the future like what do you dare not dream about because if you said it you'd be on the hook and that whole thing so have some unfiltered space long answer to that aunt like have some unfiltered space with yourself or somebody close to you check out adrian online adrian cayler dot com or adrian dot k on instagram adrian cayler on lincoln also make sure you check out this take new ground piece i mean that's that's pretty incredible uh as well as um your uh your multi-day retreat also adrian does some really amazing leadership coaching. So reach out to him if you have some needs to actually fix your problems

Starting point is 00:36:28 instead of just kind of tap dance around the room with another coach. So I really respect that out of a hardcore coach. Adrian, I have a question I ask all the great leaders on the show, and we all have a routine that gets us going in the day, sets our sights on where we need to, or maybe just clears our mind. So how do you start your day with a win? Yeah. I've done it several different ways and it keeps evolving. The way it happens for me now is when I get up I have some kind of moment of pause. I come from a faith background. I mean, I'm a weird dude. I have a master's in theology and I was a pastor for many years with all this other stuff. I've been done. So there's an aspect of me that's very like aspirational. And for me, I have to be connected to some kind of higher power,

Starting point is 00:37:13 some kind of God, just because if I'm the most powerful thing in the universe, that's, we're in trouble. So, at least for me, right? Then what I'm going to do? Like, depend on, you know, government or something. Hello. So there's, there's a moment of pause for me of reflection of gratitude. I used to, I've had a different time, a whole gratitude practice of journaling and writing things down. I'm not doing that at the moment. I also, like, I'm a cold plunge guy. So in my backyard, I've got a cold plunge. And I do that just because I don't want to do that. You know, I get into it. And I'm, I'm sure there are, you know, physiological benefits and all that but I do is do it for psychological reasons just like I don't want to do this and you know what

Starting point is 00:37:53 most humans won't and I you know just I do want both things I want to like overcome myself and I do remind myself that I do very hard things and so that's a part of it depends on I've got my kids half the time and I go walk my I've got a 90 pound golden doodle and my daughter who's nine and I have a practice now of walking the dog together which is just a beautiful beautiful experience of like having very fun, engaging conversations with her. And then, you know, I reach out to the people that I care about most. Awesome. You know, I've got people that, you know, text every morning.

Starting point is 00:38:32 Why? Because I need to be reminded that I'm not alone in the world. And there are people there, no matter what's going to happen today, what matters most is relationships. We know that, even from all the research. Like when people are on their deathbed, it's who's around the bed that matters, not what company that I build or what's in the, you know, what's in the bank account. So I just get connected to the people I care about the most. That's amazing.

Starting point is 00:38:52 Some great points there. Make sure you check out Adrian Kaler and go back and listen to this episode again. We started with most coaching is bullshit. And it's true because we don't get deep enough into reflecting upon these key aspects of truly finding ourselves in order to make a difference. So Adrian, thanks for all you do. Thanks for being on start with a win. And we'll catch you next time. Amazing.

Starting point is 00:39:16 Thanks for having me on, brother. Thank you.

Start With A Win - Adrian Koehler: This Is Why Most Business Coaching is Bullshit

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