Start With A Win - Excuses are the Killers of Leaders with Don Yaeger

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Don Yaeger is a nationally acclaimed inspirational speaker, longtime Associate Editor of Sports Illustrated, author of over 30 books—eleven of which have become New York Times Bestsellers. Today he studies how playing sports shapes Fortune 500 CEOS on his podcast, Corporate Competitor. He has interviewed CEOs of Delta Airlines, Disney, Bank of America, and even ADAM CONTOS!Don grew up reading Sports Illustrated, so joining that team of talented storytellers was like a dream come true! One thing that quickly became apparent was that within this small community of world-class talent was the complete lack of jealousy among the writers and editors. Everyone viewed each other as a highly respected peer. And throughout his career, Don came to understand that the true greats are comparing themselves against their potential, not other people.Don also shares the story of the time he played one-on-one against Michael Jordan—and won!Through years of interviewing some of the greatest athletes of all time, Don realized that what made them successful was not their athleticism. It is their ability to be more mentally, emotionally, spiritually disciplined than their opponents. He shares how their insights can become our lessons in how to manage adversity, fostering teamwork, and how to be a servant leader. Adam and Don also dive into the topic of excuses and how they can truly become the killer of leaders. Don shares a favorite quote from his former opponent, Michael Jordan: “A loss is not a failure until you make an excuse.” This is the mindset you see in high performers, whether in athletics or the business world. “Making excuses is human nature, but to be exceptional [is to] defy human nature every day,” said Don.Excuses—or dwelling on past mistakes—can be difficult to overcome. Don shares the Coach K model of overcoming mistakes, “Next Play.” It’s okay to take time later to reflect on what might have just happened, but you can’t reflect now. “It’s more like a West Point thing, like what’s your next mission? So, whenever you got knocked back individually and collectively [as a team], they taught you, ‘OK, next play. What am I going to do next?’” - Mike KrzyzewskiDon encourages listeners to develop a phrase that can remind them that their job is not to dwell on their excuses or the past.Adam and Don also discuss the importance of communication in leadership. We saw how important this was during COVID-19 and how this crisis actually uncovered some of the cracks in leadership. And we can’t develop that trait in a crisis, it has to be an effort that we’re working on all the time! Because we don’t know what’s ahead of us. Episode Links:Don Yaeger:https://donyaeger.comCorporate Competitor Podcast:https://donyaeger.com/corporate-competitor-podcast/Coach K’s Next Play Philosophy:https://www.peaksports.com/sports-psychology-blog/krzyzewskis-next-play-philosophy-for-letting-go-of-mistakes/Order your copy of Start With A Win: Tools and Lessons to Create Personal and Business Success:https://www.startwithawin.com/bookConnect with Adam:https://www.startwithawin.com/https://www.facebook.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://twitter.com/REMAXAdamContoshttps://www.instagram.com/REMAXadamcontos/ Leave us a voicemail:888-581-4430

Welcome to Start With A Win, where we give you the tools and lessons you need to create business and personal success. Are you ready? Let's do this. And coming to you from top of the 12th floor, Remax World Headquarters here in Denver, Colorado, it's Adam Kantos with Start With a Win. How you doing, Producer Mark? Doing so good. So good. Yeah, yeah. We're here wrapping up all of our recordings in the studio

for the last top of the 12th floor. Oh, yeah. Then we go to either Brand Viva Media Studios or the Fort Kantos Basement Studio a la COVID. That's right. That's right. Which, that thing has been very reliable. It's grinding.

That place is crushing. Awesome. Awesome. Hey, we've got a great friend on today. We do, yeah. Yeah, Don Yeager is a nationally acclaimed inspirational speaker, long-time associate editor of Sports Illustrated. Hello.

That's awesome. Author of over 30 books. Again, awesome. 11 of which have become New York Times bestsellers. Talk about crushing. Today, he studies how playing sports shapes Fortune 500 CEOs on his podcast, Corporate Competitor. He has interviewed CEOs of Delta, Disney, Bank of America, and our very own Adam Kantos. Hey!

Don, welcome to Start With a Win. Good to see you again. Thank you. Thank you. I got to tell you, Adam, when I interviewed you, it was like, I think, episode 53 of my podcast. You were in the Contos cave or whatever you call it. And yeah, I remember having a high cool factor, though, but not as cool as that walk-on music. I need to up my game. Like, that's strong, walk-on music.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, I have producer Mark here to create some amazing walk-on music. That's right. It's my specialty. There you go. Yeah, Don, I got a guy for you here. Yeah, I need to up the game. Well, we've been friends for quite some time,

and you've got some incredible books and do some amazing work helping people really, truly understand teamwork. Teamwork, it doesn't matter what type of industry you're in things. In fact, I can see one of your books behind you, great teams. You know, it's just, it's fantastic, all the things you're doing. And it all comes from your roots of, you know, Sports Illustrated. And that helped really, I guess, probably get you in the mindset of that and things to look for. So can you tell us a little bit about your time with Sports Illustrated and how that led you to where you are today? Absolutely. I'll tell you that first off, I grew up as a kid reading Sports Illustrated. So the idea to go to work at that

place that you was iconic, right? It was a brand that you wanted to be associated with. I also had been studying for years the art of storytelling, and many of the people I thought were great storytellers were other writers at Sports Illustrated. So suddenly I'm in the presence of people who I had been studying because I was so fascinated by them. But the community is really small. There's only 30 senior writer associate editors at Sports Illustrated at any time in the world. And so you're working with world-class talent. But what I loved about it was that when you're around all that talent, there was zero jealousy, right? And that was one of the unique experiences about being there.

People weren't arguing, well, your success means I didn't get that opportunity. I loved it. Everybody looked at each other as a true, highly respected peer. And it made it really just an unbelievable place to work. 12 years was a great gift. And it kept me on the road a lot, but it was a great gift. Awesome. Well, you talk about that lack of jealousy. Do you think that was absorbed from some of the major sports athletes, the stars that you worked with? Because so many of them are givers, and they're trying to help their team win because, you know, rising tide raises all ships, especially in a team environment.

I mean, was there a transference of that because you guys were around it so much? I think that's a pretty great assessment, Adam. I don't know that anybody ever quite thought of it that way. I think what you realize is, and this is true of really high performing organizations, right? That you don't sit and try to compare yourself against others. The great ones are really comparing themselves against their potential. And that, when you see that as a regular, and then it becomes absorbed into your culture, as you said, the rising tide brings us all up. Awesome.

And I want to ask you about something. When you talk about the greatest of all time and so many things, everybody nicknames him the GOAT now. One that comes to mind is Michael Jordan. And you had the opportunity to go one-on-one with Michael Jordan, is my understanding. Can you tell us about that? Did that happen? Not only – I talk about it every day if I can. Yes, a number of years ago, Jordan actually, he does an old man basketball camp.

It's a charity event, right? He brings in 100 guys, 20 of the most amazing coaches in the history of the game. And you're going to play basketball full court against each other a couple of times a day for four days. The end result is about a million and a half dollars he raises for Make-A-Wish, which is my personal charity. So I love it that it's his as well. But on day three, he brings 20 guys out. He picks 20 guys and says, today you get to go one-on-one with the greatest player of all time. That's pretty awesome, right?

To say, I'm the greatest of all time and nobody argues. And he says, the rules are simple. And he says, I'm going to let my assistant explain them. She steps up and she says, yes, the rules are simple. See, today you're going to play a game to one. First guy to score wins. And Michael starts with the ball. Oh, wow. Your job is to guard Michael. If somehow he misses and you get the ball, Michael guards you and first guy to score wins. How long before you just feel like you want to lay down? Oh, I was like, I mean, all of us were hyperventilating at this stage, right? And I was number 12 on there. So the guy two in front of me, he actually goes out. What Jordan points out before we even start the entire

competition, that only six in all the years he's been doing it, only five guys had ever scored on him. And today there wasn't going to be a sixth, right? So now he's in your head too. Well, the guy right in front of me, he goes out to guard Jordan, puts his elbow into Jordan's hip because he couldn't get higher than that. And Jordan does a move, leaves the guy on the ground, dunks the ball, takes it out, tosses it on the guy as he's laying on the ground. And he says, now you know what it's like to be spanked like a bad child. Greatest trash talker of all time. So then it's my turn. And I decide I'm not going to let him dunk on me. So I back off. And Jordan looks at me and he goes, are you not going to let him dunk on me. So I back off and Jordan looks at me

and he goes, are you really going to give me this shot? And I looked back at Michael Jordan and I said, I don't think you have it in you. And everybody starts going, oh, and he goes up, takes a shot and he misses and I get the rebound. And I go back outside the three point line and Jordan looks at me and he me, and I look back at him, and I said, aren't you going to return the favor? Be a bad defender like I was. Back off. And he said, I know you don't have that shot in you. And as he said that, I jacked it up for 26 feet, nothing but net. Became only the sixth player to ever score on Michael Jordan at the event. And yes, I tell the story every day if I'm allowed. My children are so over it. My wife has made me swear never to tell it at a dinner party again.

But yes, thank you for the invitation. But you didn't just score on Michael Jordan, you put a three on Michael Jordan. I put a three on him. And I mean, that's the hand right there too. I mean, you know. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. That's incredible. I mean, talk about, you know, and life goes on around stories. You know, you mentioned that at SI. I hope there was an article about that. Well, we talked a lot about, I mean, in fact, there was this phrase in the writer's room in the New York office that said, storytelling is the currency of kings and queens. And that's the way we looked at it, right? That our job was, we were the purveyors of currency, and our job was to deliver it as a king or queen would accept it.

Awesome. And you've spent, over the course of your career, some amazing time with some of the greatest names in sports history. And I'm sure you've heard some incredible stories, gained some incredible insights. And now you bring a lot of those out to the corporate environment, things like that. Can you share a couple of key points with us? Well, I love one of the things that's most important is that when you really dig into what made them successful, they're not sporting things, right? It's not about being bigger, faster, stronger than other people. It's about being more mentally, emotionally, spiritually disciplined than the people you're competing against.

They would tell you that it was those disciplines that gave them a leg up on others. So what I loved is that their lessons were not sports lessons, right? They were about how do you manage adversity? How do you, you know, what kind of a teammate are you? Are you willing to pick others up when they need that? Do you know how to be a servant leader in that role? When you really dig into what made the greatest that, there are a series of conversation tools that you and I can apply into our life every day. And that's what I love because I'll never have Michael Jordan's physical gifts. I do have his trash talking gifts. You deserve them, man. I'll never have those, but what I can work on are those mental and emotional disciplines that will allow me to be

better. Okay. So let's, let's unpack that a little bit more here, because this is interesting to me. You know, I go after achievement every day. I get up and I work hard. And there's one thing that you never hear from these incredible athletes, and that's an excuse. I mean, you never hear that. Can you give us some insight? I mean, is that something that comes up when you talk to these folks or is it just that it's completely avoided? How does that fit into their lives? It absolutely comes up if you ask them about it, right? If you say, gosh, I mean, you had every reason to blame the wet turf, the

bad referee, the ball, and all of them, first off, they'll point out the opponent played with the same set of circumstances, right? So, you know, if you choose, but Michael Jordan, actually in this, in the same interaction that we were talking about at this event, um, actually said a line to me that was so great. He said, a loss is not a failure until you make an excuse. And, um, I love that line because for him, he uses losses as an opportunity to reevaluate. He loses losses as a moment of introspection and reflection. And Nick Saban says all the time, never waste a good loss. Because especially if you're a Nick Saban, they don't happen that often. You got to make sure you make the most of them. That's the mindset you see in high performers, in people that want to take themselves and are willing to take themselves to the next level. Okay. Give us

that quote one more time. I want everybody to hear this. A loss is not a failure until you make an excuse. A loss is not a failure until you make an excuse. I love that. In fact, Jordan said it to me. It actually hangs on. I put it on a sticky note and it hangs in my office because when he said it, I was riveted by that line because making excuses is human nature, right? But to be exceptional, you have to be committed, as you know. And I know this is a key element of everything you preach, Adam, is you defy human nature every day. That's what you're there to do. Do you think that in those super athletes or super achievers that that becomes subconscious, or do you think it's as hard for them as it is for everybody else? It's as hard for them as it is for everybody else. In fact, one of the things that really works,

again, I know this is a principle that you talk about on your podcast often, is the idea that you have to find accountability partners, right? Because it's so easy to make that excuse. It's so easy to find that moment of someone to blame or maybe I wasn't feeling well or whatever it is, that if you don't have others who can say, whoa, whoa, whoa, you promised that you were never going to make excuses. Let's stop that right there. You have to have accountability partners because human nature is let's all feed that narrative. Let's feed that blame somebody else.

Can't be us, right? Can't be me. It's got to be some other situation. And you know what's interesting about this? And I hope all the listeners are unpacking excuses in their head as they're listening to this like I am right now. Because this is one of the largest inhibitors of growth is an excuse. Because all we're doing is rationalizing. We're rationalizing a failure in that we can't be better because we're blaming something else. And it's okay to have failures. It's okay to have losses. It's okay to stop doing something, but it's not okay to make the excuse

about it because you're trying to place that rationalization or, as we know it, blame on something other than yourself instead of owning the fact that it wasn't you that succeeded or completed this. So I'm blown away that when you think about this, and for everybody listening, different people think about excuses in different ways. I look at them as, oh my gosh, I'm ashamed of making an excuse myself. It's just fundamentally in the fabric of my being. And I think a lot of these other people that you talk to feel the same way about that, Don. It's fascinating when people start going, but this or and that and pointing fingers at everything else instead of just going, yep, that's it. But they move on with it without hesitation. And that is, they build that bridge into the next, I know, I learned, I filed, I'm done, let's move on, as opposed to people dwelling

on it. What tips do you have for somebody who can't get over some of their excuses? Is there anything that they can think about in society here or in leadership or whatever? Because it's the killer of leaders. Excuses is the killer of leaders. I totally agree. So right now, as we're recording this, March Madness is about to start. It is the last March Madness for Coach K at Duke. I have a close friendship with him. I've worked with him for years. I've also played in his old man basketball camp. As you can tell, I love basketball. Coach K's entire model of leadership is built on two words. It's next play, right? Because you can take time later to reflect on what just happened, but you cannot take time now. Because if you spend time now reflecting on what just happened, good or bad, you've lost

the opportunity to affect the moment that's in front of you. And so when you can develop a phrase or whatever it might be, right? Next play, whatever, something that reminds you, my job is to move on to the next play, good or bad. Then you begin that process of you're not dwelling on excuses because you don't have time to talk about it because you're worried about next play. I'm worrying about how we do things. And then giving people, this is the second piece of it, giving people around you permission to call you out when you're not living up to that commitment. That's one of the things. So I have an organization. I have a company as well, and that's a cultural more for us.

We talk about all the time our ability to call each other out consistently around that one subject specifically. Incredible. Now, I want to jump into that a little bit because you have a podcast, Corporate Competitor. You interview Fortune 500 CEOs about- Legends like you. Thank you, sir. Honored to be on that. So you've taken a lot of crossover here because we have ultra high performers, which really are ultra high performers. I mean, there's, they might be in business, they might be in basketball, they might be in football. You know, you and I were talking to, about Tom Brady before, things like that. I mean, there are people who are committed to

perform the very best that they can and find that next level every time they do it. And there are those who are okay with status quo. You interview the people who are committed to continuing to find the higher level. Any big takeaways that you can recall recently of corporate CEOs that you've seen some of these parallels from? You know, a couple that really stood out. One, I had the opportunity to interview Condoleezza Rice a couple of weeks ago for the podcast. As an athlete, many people don't realize she was the first woman ever invited to join Augusta National Golf Club. She's such a good golfer and she's so competitive in that sport that Augusta allowed her to become, I mean, they invited her to become the first woman. And obviously, she's an incredible golfer, an incredible member there. people and teams for how are they performing against their potential? Because that is where,

and she believes she can see people's potential by how are they when they're at their best. And if you know that that's what you're capable of, how often do you stay there? And she talks a lot about identifying the identity of organizations. Is your organization known to fold under pressure? Are they a bully? Are they Michigan State basketball, where they practice every day in football pads, it looks like some days, because the way they hit other people? What is your cultural identity? Because teams of that identity will essentially devolve to nothing when things get tough. And so I love that one. I also had Disney CEO Bob Chapek on and Delta CEO Ed Bastian, right? And both of them talked a lot about communication skills and that the best leaders are constantly thinking

about how do we spend more time out of the office? How do we make sure we're spending, as Ed Bastian said, he has a 50% rule. He never spends 50% of a week in his office. The other 50% are in, he wants to be on airplanes. He wants to be at airports, at gates, and in galleys, you know, talking to flight attendants. Are you committed to being that world-class communicator to others? Because they'll follow you if they believe they can feel your heart. They'll feel your heart, not on a series of videos, but if you're out and about. Incredible. And a great point, everybody. In fact, I mean, it's funny. I was just writing a post that I have not posted yet about being a leader in

communicating. It's interesting, Don, because one of the leading traits that employees and customers want from a leader, and it was highly exposed during COVID when a lot of businesses went into lockdown, things of that nature, was communication. So communication has risen to the number one trait desired from leaders now. And you just, you look around and you can quickly and easily point to those that communicate well and those that don't and see the results. It's fascinating. And I think it's, you know, it's the same thing on teams because, and I, you know, I ran a SWAT team way back when, well, the number one thing that me as a SWAT commander had to do, I had to communicate when I was in the Marines. Oh, totally. When I was in the Marines, it was shoot, move, communicate. That's what we did. Shoot, move, communicate. And it's basketball,

it's baseball, it's football. It's, I mean, ping pong, who knows? It's everything. How do you communicate very effectively? Because if everything. How do you communicate very effectively? Because if you can communicate, you can share your dream and your direction and get stuff done. And business, hey, same thing, right? First and foremost, I think one of the things that you hit on right there was how that trait rose in level of importance, you know, ostensibly during the pandemic. The truth is the trait's always been extraordinarily important. We just didn't think about it. But you see, the one thing you cannot do is develop that trait in a pandemic, right? You cannot develop that

trait in a crisis. You don't learn to communicate after you've shot, after you've moved and then communicate. That has to be an effort that you're working to better yourself at all the time. And so the one thing I would say is we have no idea what's ahead for us, right? Remember, next play, we're just focused on today. We have no idea what's ahead for us. If there's another pandemic coming, we have no idea. If you have the time now and you do work on these skills, work on an understanding of how do I more expressively allow other people to know where my heart lies, right? They know what your rules are. They know what your standards are, but what's your heart? And people follow those whose heart they can connect to because they know that if you have the right heart, you're going to ultimately do what's right

for all of us, even if it's mildly uncomfortable for me. And so communicating your heart, letting people know, and then living out that passion, whatever it is, say it, but then you communicate with your actions. You know, most people think communication is just a verbal thing. It's not. It's that secondary piece, communicate it with your actions. And then as people begin to feel that way, pandemic or some crisis hits, they're more likely to line up with you. And that's what you're looking for. Totally agree.

And I guess you could say that, you know, that crisis really illuminated the cracks that people had in their leadership and their capabilities. Because, you know, when we put pressure on something, you figure out where it's weak. And that is true. I think we saw that quite extensively during the pandemic. And it happens when teams start losing on the field, on the court, wherever it might be, where are the cracks in that? And that's why the trash talking works. That's why turning it up on some defensive plays or offensive plays or whatever might fire it up. But anyhow, incredible talk, Don. But, uh, anyhow, um,

incredible talk, Don, I want to thank you so much for being here. I do have one question. I ask all of our amazing guests on start with a win and that is Don Yeager. How do you start your day with a win? So I'm, I'm a person of faith, so I hope I'm allowed to share. Of course, of course. My day opens with prayer and a devotional every day. I wake up grateful, and that's expressed in that conversation. But I also, I'm a big believer, and I'm constantly changing them out. I have particular phrases or words if I'm really trying to get better at something, and I tape them to my mirror. I don't know.

I'm sure you've probably heard that 100 times. But that idea of if I know that I'm struggling or I'm working on something, I'm putting it on the mirror because as I spend that time grooming or doing whatever, I'm trying to make sure I'm reminding myself this is something that we have to do. It's a repetition world, and we're better when we repeat things to ourselves. Awesome. Don Yeager from Sports Illustrated, corporate competitor podcast, interviewing Fortune 500 CEOs. Just an amazing man and somebody who scored points on Michael Jordan. Hello, we can't let that go.

And it was a three with that hand right there. So thank you so much for being on start with a win. It's good to see you again, my friend. Awesome. Thank you, Adam. Hey, and thank you for listening to start with a win. If you've just been passively hanging out and not really subscribing to the podcast, I encourage you to subscribe to the podcast. That way you'll get notified when new episodes come out and it'll help other people find the show. For more great content, head over to startwithwin.com. And until next time, remember, start with a win. you