Start With A Win - Focus on Your People! Leadership Insights with Dennis Maple

Starting point is 00:00:00 If we focus on them and help them be successful, number one, they're going to give you more incremental effort. And number two, I believe more often than not, I ultimately will be successful as well. You've seen leaders hide behind an ego versus prepare for the future with confidence. Can you talk to us about those two words, confidence versus ego? Welcome to Start With a Win, where we unpack franchising, leadership, and business growth. Let's go. Have you ever wondered how leaders get so good at leading others? It's because they do something special first. Today, we talk about that on Start With A Win. Coming to you from Area 15 Ventures and Start With A Win headquarters, it's Adam Contos

Starting point is 00:00:42 with Start With A Win. We are honored to have a repeat guest back today, Dennis Maple, the president and CEO of Goddard Franchisor LLC and chairman and CEO of Goddard Systems. Dennis shapes the vision for this amazing franchise brand that forms the lives of our kids through early childhood education. Dennis has also been the president of First Student and Aramark Education. Dennis brings a ton of real-world business leadership to the table from other organizations as well. Please help me welcome Dennis back to Start With a Win. Dennis, great to see you again. Oh my goodness, I'm excited to be here and it's a real privilege.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Thanks for inviting me back. Awesome. So Dennis, let's dive right into this leadership. You and I have had some amazing leadership conversations in the past. I mean, truly inspirational. We talked about some lessons from your grandmother. We've talked about some amazing things you've done for your companies. But what we want to dig into today is we need to lead ourselves before we can lead others. So you've emphasized this in the past and the importance of self-leadership. How do you define leading yourself first? And why is it crucial to be an effective leader?

Starting point is 00:01:58 You know, I think the biggest piece of this, and we did talk about this, leader is being authentic. And when I talk about being authentic, I mean I'm speaking in the spirit of leading others, but I'm also speaking from the standpoint of how we are transparent and authentic with ourselves. And really what that means to me is that we, A, we have to be honest about what we're good at. B, we have to accept the things that are opportunity areas or things that we need to be better at. And C, we have to be willing to take transparent feedback from all of those people who are around us. And I think when you establish that kind of a culture and that kind of connectivity to the people in the organizations that you're privileged to lead,

Starting point is 00:02:38 you can expect to have an inspirational, impactful, and successful leadership reign. But you have to really start with being confident in yourself, not doubting yourself, and not also being distracted too much by those naysayers, because we know that there are naysayers in every organization and every aspect of life. But I think at the bottom line, the bottom line here is authenticity and being true to oneself and true to one's principles and values. Wow. And it seems like there I mean, just to kind of add on to that question a little bit, because, you know, you're talking about being true and authentic to ourselves that allows us to be true and authentic to others. I have seen so many business meetings where leaders will sit there and say everything's fine, even though it's not. And then everybody at the table seems to say everything's fine, even though they know it's not. I mean, how do we help the leaders that we lead, the people at the table in these decision-making rooms,

Starting point is 00:03:38 understand that trust and transparency occurs with a great deal of self-honesty and us talking about what's not going as well as we want it to, or what we can do better. How do we, how do we crack that egg and get over that where people are afraid and they're guarding their egos? You know, um, it's a great, first of all, it's a great question. And I go back to authenticity. I would say an adjunct to that would be integrity. You know, people have to know that you're willing to be vulnerable. And, you know, my relationships with my team members are both personal and professional. And so there are things we talk about that are personal in nature, some that are professional in nature. But in all of those instances, I am not uncomfortable being honest about things that others might not necessarily want to talk about. I think you set that sort of platform so that basically people are not afraid

Starting point is 00:04:36 to make mistakes. People are not afraid to deliver bad news. People understand I can be emotive and my reaction may not be as pure as I would want it to be. But at the end of the day, we're going to get to a better place if people will talk to me about what's going on realistically and transparently. And quite honestly, to the extent that people don't, we can't work together because I put everything on the table. I ask everyone to put everything on the table. We get things done together. And if that's not the way it's going to be, because I can't really trust you or I can't have confidence in your opinion, then it's very difficult to move forward as an organization. Dennis, a friend of mine actually, on this note, a friend of mine wrote a book called They Can't Eat You. And it's

Starting point is 00:05:19 weird because I think a lot of our employees or the leaders that we work with seem to have some, you know, constructed fear that they're going to be attacked in some manner by their organization or the people they work for if there is a mistake. But I think you really did a good job of talking about that saying, you know, it's okay to make mistakes, but let's all understand it together and be transparent about it. I mean, you know, a mistake is, unless it's nefarious or repeated or whatever it might be, it's really not a career ender. It's a learning moment. How do you instill that into those that you lead? Well, you know, I think for those of us that have worked in corporate America for a long time, we know that the end game is always about delivering on the performance that you indicate you're going to deliver on. But there are a couple of ways to get there. And you never want to be in those situations where you feel desperate and you have to do whatever you feel you've got to do to try to achieve the goals. And the way that you avoid being in those desperate moments is that

Starting point is 00:06:25 you're consistently being updated and updating those that need to know. And in doing so, you're building credibility, you're building a trusting relationship, you're demonstrating collaboration. And as a consequence of those things, you can have honest, candid conversations. I also believe, you know, my great grandmother would always say that one of the most important things to her was honesty. And so to me, I would much rather have honesty with bad results than a lie with good results, because, you know, those good results are not going to sustain themselves. And if you don't know what's going on behind it, you can't really put great confidence in it. So, again, I think it's always about trust and authenticity and candor and people just being comfortable.

Starting point is 00:07:11 It's OK to make a mistake and have a learning moment because we're going to grow and build from that together. Awesome answer. Thank you so much for that. So what we're trying to get over here in a lot of people is this self-doubt and internal conflict. And leaders struggle with that to begin with. I think a lot of us have what we call the imposter syndrome, where sometimes you wake up in the morning, you look in the mirror and you go, am I the right one to be doing this? Or will I be found out as somebody who just showed up someday? I mean, there's so much self-doubt and internal conflict that goes on in the human brain. How do we help people get over that?

Starting point is 00:07:53 Because until they can get over that, they can't continue to rise in leadership. That's right. That's right. You know, my first remembrance of self-doubt was in high school. I had been selected to become student council president. And it was a transitional year for our school, new principal and that sort of thing. I was really just walking around thinking, oh, my God, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if people are going to like me.

Starting point is 00:08:21 I didn't really understand leadership at that point in my life the way I do today. And, you know, I've maintained over the course of my career moments when I've had self-doubt. As a matter of fact, I think it's probably healthy to not ever go into a situation thinking that nothing can go wrong and I got this no matter what happens. I think a little bit of self-doubt is important, but I think it has to be maintained in its rightful place. And that rightful place is preparing to develop the game plan for success. So a little bit of self-doubt makes you stronger. It makes you more focused. It gives you the energy, but it also gives you the insights with regard to the most critical things that need to happen so you can succeed. So when I when when I'm faced with something, for instance, I give speeches all the time. I'm nervous every time I give a speech. And I do it all the time. And I generally do it okay

Starting point is 00:09:11 or effectively. But I have a little bit of doubt every time before I give a speech. Or sometimes we'll have a board meeting. I will look prepared, prepared, prepared. But I know that I'm going to do okay. But I got a little bit of that self-doubt because I want to do a good job. And so I think there's a relationship between desire to succeed and sometimes feeling that degree of doubt because you really want to be successful. And so that's the best way I can describe how I deal with it. I think that's an amazing answer. And having watched you perform and deliver messaging, first of all, it's quite impressive, folks. And you do a fair amount of preparation, I will say. I think that's one of the fallacies that leaders have is they

Starting point is 00:09:51 think they're so good that they don't do anything to prepare. And I would say that's not quite the way you want to approach things because people will see through that. But in doing so, we have these two variables that we have to work through. And sometimes people hide behind one, and sometimes people overcome the one that others hide behind. And I'm talking about confidence versus ego here. And you've seen it. I know a million times you've seen leaders hide behind an ego versus prepare for the future with confidence. Can you talk to us about those two words, confidence versus ego? Yeah. So without trying to get into the clinical definition of either of those two words, I would just say that there is a healthy place for both.

Starting point is 00:10:39 90% of the confidence should come from preparation. It should come from understanding. It should come from collaboration in terms of leading a team. It should come from having that perspective that you're going to be successful. The ego piece of it is I got to find a way to get it done, and I'm going to find a way to get it done. But I don't think you ever want to let your ego lead your preparation and your confidence because at the end of the day, ego is really a state of mind. Confidence comes from preparation, planning, and a game plan. And I think it's important that we put those things in their rightful places. My ego says we're absolutely always going to achieve the goals that we need to achieve, but that's based

Starting point is 00:11:20 on my confidence that we're going to do the work to build a plan to have the people and the understanding of what success really looks like. So there again, I think there's room for both. But the ego piece has to be very, very minute. It really does. So, Dennis, I mean, some incredible leadership responses here with confidence and ego and sitting at the table to develop leaders. But I have a question for you. In today's fast-paced business environment, how do you stay focused? When we're worried about all these other things, how do you stay focused on achieving your goals? Do you have systems and processes for that? Yeah, so look, I think, first of all,

Starting point is 00:12:00 it's about team goals. It's about understanding of what it's going to take to get to those goals, for those goals to be achieved. But the most important aspect of leadership when things are difficult and you're trying to keep balance is continuing to have the confidence, but that confidence is being based upon the planning, the diligence, the collaboration, and the support of others. And I think leaders should almost always focus on the success of their team members and not of their individual selves. And I think if you can maintain that discipline where obviously in order for me to lead the company that I lead, we I have to be successful, which means the company has to be successful.

Starting point is 00:12:36 But my success is derived from everyone else's success. So my primary focus is on their success, which thereby translates into mine. If I'm only worried about what's going to happen to me, how I'm going to look, whether or not we're going to achieve our targets and goals, and I'm not concerned, are we helping people build careers? Are we helping people get new journeys? Are we helping people have experiences that give them opportunities for their future? Are we helping franchisees understand how to effectively achieve their personal and professional goals. If we focus on them and help them be successful, number one, they're going to give you more incremental effort. And number two, I believe more often than not, I ultimately will be successful as well. Oh, this is awesome. And a lot of times in these high performance organizations like yours, we run into a challenge of not knowing when we're, you know, when we're pushing our employees past their

Starting point is 00:13:31 limits, maybe hitting burnout or something like that. What should we look for as a leader to avoid burnout or to help deal with that both in ourselves and in our employees? Because, you know, obviously if the leader burns out, everybody's going to burn out. Sure. And if the employees burn out, the goals aren't going to get accomplished and the leader's going to run out of good people. So how do we balance all that with burnout? You know, that's a great question.

Starting point is 00:13:55 And I think about that from a personal standpoint, because in my case, the way I avoid it personally, is I try to have balance. You know, I go really hard when I'm here and then I'm really focused on family and doing the things that make Dennis happy when I'm not here. And so I do think it's important to have balance. And I think it's important to have organizational balance as well. And by that, I mean, we have to stay connected to our teams and really check for engagement. The best way that I know if people are getting burned out

Starting point is 00:14:23 is their level of engagement and the authenticity of those interactions. So when I see people kind of, you know, seeming like they're exhausted or they've had just a bit too much, I pull them to the side and I say, listen, do you need to take some time? Do you need to go do some of those things that make you happy? Do you need to add some balance from the other side of your life? But you've got to be intuitively connected to people to understand that. And so I work really hard to have those kinds of very close, personal, intimate relationships with all of the people in the organization that I have direct, ongoing dialogue with. But even for teams that I don't see every day, I make every effort to stay connected, to give them a chance to pose questions, to interact, to share their perspectives. And by doing that, you can tell how people are feeling. You know, if you go into a meeting, you ask people to ask questions and nobody has a question or

Starting point is 00:15:15 nobody has a comment or nobody has an insightful perspective, you know there's a problem here. And so, again, I try to stay connected to it to make sure that we're encouraging people to maintain balance, but that we're always listening because by listening, we can determine if people are engaged and ultimately if we're going to achieve the things we need to achieve. Some powerful words there. I want to add on to one of those things, though, because, you know, we've talked about authenticity a fair amount here, but what we haven't talked about is something, you know, that really starts to draw out the authenticity. And I know you know this because I've seen you do this in your organization. You deliver a great deal of personal attention and appreciation.

Starting point is 00:15:54 And I think you kind of alluded to it a safe place to, you know, really perform better and not just show up just to collect a paycheck? You know, I would say it's a little bit like your kids learning to walk. It's one step at a time with the idea that you're going to continuously move forward in the development of that relationship. People need to see you take risk. This authenticity piece means you're being honest, you're being transparent, you're giving unsolicited insights into how you're feeling, how you're doing, what's bothering you. I think it's one step at a time. As people see you do that, they see their other leaders in the organization do that, then they're more likely to do it as well. And, you. And one of the things I had to learn about being CEO in particular was when you're in a forum with team members and people ask questions, which sometimes

Starting point is 00:16:53 may be a little bit off kilter, the way that you respond to those in these big sessions really creates the culture of people being comfortable expressing their perspectives or not. And so somebody may ask a question, you go, oh my God, why am I getting that question? Well, you're getting that question because it's a test. They want to see how you will react to that person. There's always this designated person in every organization that's going to ask that question, right? I had to get comfortable not responding to that person, understanding what they were trying to do, giving them the opportunity to express themselves, giving them the opportunity to be critical, giving them the opportunity to feel like their voice matters. And I think, again,

Starting point is 00:17:38 doing it one step at a time, one person at a time, one leader at a time. You set the platform for the entire organization to do that. And I'll say this as well. People's opinions matter, but they know when you're listening and they know when you're not listening by your reaction, your body language, your level of passion and enthusiasm, et cetera. So I try to stay pretty attuned to that at all times. Wow. Yeah. It's strange it's strange if people have not sat in Dennis's seat and the CEO seat, first of all, it's lonely at a lot of times because, oh yes, you're, you're, you know, you, you get reassurance from your boss folks, but the CEO does not get reassurance from people. You have to go find it in the performance of

Starting point is 00:18:22 the organization and, you know, and then deliver those outcomes to the board of directors. So it is lonely, but you also feel like you're standing on a stage and there's a spotlight on you and everybody in the crowd is standing there watching you going, what's he going to do and what's he going to say? So, I mean, it's it's a fascinating environment. And, you know, you got to give someone like Dennis a lot of props for the things that they go through. Dennis, I will say part of being a leader, part of the CEO role is cultivating resilience and obviously perseverance in yourself and in your team, especially during challenging times.

Starting point is 00:19:01 How do you, during these difficult times, stand up and say, okay, yeah, it's difficult. And obviously, we can't lie to ourselves. But with your authenticity, how do you cultivate that resilience? Because people are scared in a lot of environments. The surveys show in franchising, people continue to expect inflation to continue to rise or stay the same, where prices are not getting any better. And it's a little harder for somebody to engage in the business. And we have franchisees to worry about. How do we cultivate that resilience?

Starting point is 00:19:34 So I'll tie two things together. First of all, the authenticity matters because people need to know that failure or a mistake is not the end of the game, right? So I think, first and foremost, the resiliency comes from the confidence that people have in leadership. If we're talking about resilience on a personal level, that comes from within. But if you're talking about it in the context of a culture of a company, the resiliency that people demonstrate is based on their confidence in you as a leader. It's based on their perspective that I can share honestly what's going on.

Starting point is 00:20:07 And even if it's not the outcome that we wanted, this guy has my back because he knows I have his back. And together, we're going to regroup. We're going to learn. We're going to continue to move forward. idea. The last time we talked, I talked about my grandmother and this whole idea that I've been sharing around the system about being a little bit better every single day. So the way this comes into this idea of resiliency is that sometimes you have to take a step back. Maybe that's a mistake. Maybe that's an outcome that you didn't anticipate, but that doesn't mean that you're not going to continue to move forward. And so to me, resiliency is something that's learned.

Starting point is 00:20:47 It's something that on an individual basis tends to come from experience and internally. But in an organizational context, resiliency is created from the top because leaders have to assure people or reassure people that you are on this team because we believe that you can help us achieve great things and we're going to do it together. But every now and then we're going to learn how to get even more effective. That's going to happen through our failures, not necessarily through our successes. Ooh, that's, that's powerful. That's, I love that answer. All right. Let's, let's jump over to something else that I know you and I both value incredibly in leadership, and that's emotional intelligence. How, as a leader, do we foster emotional

Starting point is 00:21:32 intelligence within ourselves? And how do we get our teams to recognize that? Because it's not something you can just hand people. Yeah, you know, emotional intelligence, really, first and foremost, it comes down to recognizing that it exists. Right. And emotional intelligence is really understanding how you're projecting, how people are receiving that projection, that you are listening, that you are attuned to what's important to them, and that you are concerned with their success as much as you are your own success. And so this whole emotional intelligence is about, in my opinion, placing the emphasis on that employee, that individual, that team, those team of leaders. And by being authentic, by being open to criticism and feedback, by being transparent, also by being clear about what's expected and recognizing that everybody gets there different a different way. I'll give you a really good example. When we immediately following COVID, every company was concerned with work from home. And the emotionally sensitive or the emotionally intelligent thing was to listen to your employees because there was fear, there was trepidation,

Starting point is 00:22:54 apprehension, and concern about coming to the office. Now, I'm an old school guy. I've been working for 42 years in industry. And I think going to the office is a really good thing. And I actually love going to the office because I get to see our people. Oh, yeah. But I recognize that we're in an environment post-COVID that has changed. And so the one thing that I've always believed in, in fact, I was probably one of the first guys that approved of telecommuting in one of the businesses that I ran. I always believed that people should be allowed to do their work in a manner that is consistent with their ability, but also with their values, what's important to them, as long as they get to the same place that you're looking for. So I never was concerned about when it came to this work from home thing about people working from home that I wouldn't be there to see what they're doing, because I knew that from an emotional intelligence standpoint, I needed to be sensitive and empathetic and supportive of how people were feeling in a post-COVID world.

Starting point is 00:23:50 So that's my example of why emotional intelligence matters. It matters because it demonstrates that you're willing to allow people to work, to be who they are, to work the way they choose to work, to do it in a manner that might not necessarily be exactly how you would do it, but you care about them enough that you understand it and you can accept it and together you can move forward. I love that. Let me ask you a follow-on question here then. Okay, so we're being empathetic, we're caring. How do we continue to have accountability with allowing people to kind of really set some of these boundaries themselves? You know, it's funny when you started to ask the question, I go, he's going to ask me about, okay, how do you be empathetic and at the same time, hold people accountable? Let me be really clear, achieving performance expectations across all metrics, not just revenue

Starting point is 00:24:42 and EBITDA, but across how we teach, how we grow, how we invest our time and effort in people. All of that's important. But at the end of the day, corporations and companies exist for the benefit of the public that they serve and for the partners that provide them the resources to achieve what they're trying to achieve. So accountability has to always be top of mind for all of us. The way that we achieve that accountability, though, I think we should be a little less prescriptive. I think when people are happy, they perform better. I think when people believe that management has confidence in their ability to get the results without feeling like they got to stand over their shoulder to tell them how to do it, when to do it and how fast to do it.

Starting point is 00:25:31 To me, that doesn't matter. If we understand what the outcome is expected to be, we're going to get to those outcomes. So we're going to hold you accountable, but we're going to give you the flexibility to be able to get there by whatever means is most appropriate in your particular case. So so I think there's a balance. We can't get confused, though. We can't get so empathetic and so supportive that we saw as long as you do your best. Your best should be your ability to figure out the gaps that are required to be filled to achieve success. The empathy along those lines is the support to help people identify those gaps and then to go execute to get to the success. Empathy to me is not just about feeling sorry for people or giving them a break or cutting them some slack. It's really about that two-way understanding that I'm going to invest time, energy, and effort in you, and I'm going to listen

Starting point is 00:26:15 to what matters the most to you. Your part of the deal is we have to be able to achieve the things that we agreed that we're going to achieve together. And listen, I think at the end of the day, what your question really says is, are all people the right people for every situation at any point in time? And the answer to that is no. And I think we have to be, again, I go back to authentic and transparency and candor. We have to be honest with ourselves and we have to be honest with our people. Sometimes certain situations, you know, you can't put a, what is it, a square peg in a round hole or whatever the analogy goes. But, but again, I think you have to give everyone every opportunity for success and be there to support them every step of the way. Wow. What a great way to wrap this up, Dennis. I mean, I'll tell you

Starting point is 00:27:00 what, so many people confuse accountability with this, this binary, you know, either you're accountable or you're kind or either you're accountable or you're empathetic. It's not right. I mean, there's this great gray area in the middle where we can have both. That's right. That's what I heard from you. And I love that answer. So thank you for sharing. Listen, let me just say one last thing about this. One of the things that I always say to my children, we always just want your best. I stopped early on in life looking at grades. I think I might tell you that both of my kids went to very, very elite schools and colleges and stuff. I never looked at grades. After my kids were in the sixth grade, my son, and I never looked,

Starting point is 00:27:42 I don't know what my daughter, if she even graduated or not, other than we have a certificate, a diploma that says she did. But I always put this premium on improvement a little bit every day and giving me your best. And if you give me your best every single day, I'm probably going to be satisfied. But we have to make sure as leaders that we get the right people for the jobs that we have to achieve the goals that we have to achieve. And if you know that they have the talent and the capability and you're willing to supplement that with training and support and mentorship, then you have to give them a chance to make mistakes. And if they fall short, as long as it's not a chronic matter, I think you understand it. You try to make the best of it, learn from it, and you move forward. So I don't think you can ever replace accountability because people have to be able

Starting point is 00:28:31 to believe in what you say. And for instance, and the last analogy here is if I were to tell any of our employees that I tried really hard, but I'm not going to be able to guarantee their payroll this weekend, I don't think they'd be happy about that. To me, that's real accountability. So I like for that to go both ways. I love the mutual expectations there, Dennis. That's a great thing. Here's what I expect from you. Here's what you can expect from me.

Starting point is 00:28:54 That's right. Perfect. That's awesome. Dennis Maple, chairman and CEO of Goddard Systems. I have a question I ask all amazing leaders on this show, and I know you have an answer to it. I've heard one before, but I'd like to hear what your recent answer is to this because we do change our daily systems and processes. Dennis, how do you start your day with a win? You know, we answered that question last time, and so that is still relevant and still accurate.

Starting point is 00:29:20 You know, a lot of times I start my day with just a simple conversation with my wife, you know, understanding what her day looks like, what her week's been like, what her plans are, wanting to know if she's talked to the kids and so forth and so on. But I also want to tell you that since that conversation, I've been thinking about what could be my new routine in the mornings. So I'm trying a couple of different things. One is I've gone out and I'm just trying to find source material for some sort of meditation or reading in the morning that gives me a quiet few minutes. Right. So we're going to still have the conversation with my wife when I get up and get dressed. You know, the next thing I want to do is either have a meditation moment or go for a quick walk. Right. We live in an area where there's a lot of trees and farmland-like areas. And so I think taking better

Starting point is 00:30:08 advantage of the outdoor space, taking a walk, just letting my brain just relax without all of the daily inputs of digital media, television, radio, computers, cell phones. I mean, just I'm beginning to think because of this question that you asked me, how do I build a routine? So what do I think it's going to be the next time we talk? It's going to be a moment of meditation. It's going to be some physical thing that I'm going to do. It could be walking. It could be treadmill. It could be elliptical. I could be weights. And it's going to be talking to my wife as a starting point, because I know if I don't have that conversation, I may not have time the rest of the day and I'm going to be in trouble when I get back home that evening. So that's the new Dennis Maple routine on a daily basis that we're working towards making happen.

Starting point is 00:30:51 Excellent. Thanks, Dennis. It's great to see you again, my friend. Thanks for all you do. And thanks for being on Start With A Win. Adam, you're doing fantastic work. It was a privilege to be here. Thank you so much.

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Start With A Win - Focus on Your People! Leadership Insights with Dennis Maple

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