Start With A Win - Lead Like a Champion: Don Yaeger on Translating Sports Greatness into Business Success

Starting point is 00:00:00 I don't think you can lead effectively in this day and age in a world in which emotional connection is required, right, between those who lead and those they lead, right? Emotional connection is required and you show your best connective tissue through story. Welcome to Start With A Win, where we unpack franchising, leadership, and business growth. Let's go. How does high performance and teamwork in sports translate into the corporate and business world? Today, we talk about that on Start With A Win. Coming to you from Area 15 Ventures and Start With A Win headquarters, it's Adam Kantos with Start With A Win. You're in for a treat today.

Starting point is 00:00:46 Our guest is Don Yeager, a great friend, a master storyteller, and a leadership guru who has authored 12 New York Times bestsellers and collaborated with legends like Walter Payton and John Wooden. Don's journey from a Sports Illustrated editor to a sought-after corporate coach, has given him a unique perspective on leadership. He's now the host of the Corporate Competitor podcast, where he chats with Fortune 500 executives who once dominated the playing fields. With guests like Condoleezza Rice and Netflix's top executives, Don explores how sports principles fuel business success. Get ready to gain insights from a man who's seen the playbook of champions both on the field and in the boardroom. Don, welcome to Start With a Win. Adam, I would come back every day if you'd invite me. There's no better conversation to have than

Starting point is 00:01:37 one with you. Awesome. I want to start by a huge congratulations for your induction into the National Speakers Association Hall of Fame that just happened in August. I'll tell you, that is a huge accolade. And I mean, something that you've been speaking publicly for quite some time and you're masterful at it. So huge congratulations to you and thanks for all you do to deliver your messages. Thank you. It's one of those moments when they called a couple of months ago to let me know that I was being inducted. I dropped the phone because you just don't expect.

Starting point is 00:02:13 It's not something you expect. So it's pretty cool. And it's a peer review. So I'll tell you, the top speakers in the world are very critical. You've got the best of the best who are saying, Don Yeager, he's the guy. And I mean, you're sharing the stage with just a very few, very top people. So that's incredible. Congratulations. I appreciate you, buddy. Let's jump into this. I mean, sports, leadership, storytelling.

Starting point is 00:02:42 I mean, you've got a lot of great things here. Well, we're just tying everything you talk about. It's funny. I mean, you, you've got a lot of great things here. All of which tie into everything you talk about. It's like, it's funny. I read your podcast. I read your, your blog, excuse me, listen to your podcast. And I love that. I do. I resonate, I regularly resonate with different things that you're, you're hitting on. And so, that's, that's why I love these conversations. Thank you. Let's go back to kind of the foundation for this. I mean, you know, it's hard to get up and tell stories if you don't necessarily sit in a position of experience or leadership. I mean, you just can't make up stories and BS your way through it. So what do you see as the key foundation for leadership that you've watched transition over that works for sports and for large businesses that has been very effective? Well, I tell you, Adam, and you and I talked about this previously as we were doing some work together.

Starting point is 00:03:39 It was this idea that most people don't know their audience very well. They don't know enough about them to know how to stimulate them, how to actually get the audience engaged with them. And so one of the lines I use all the time is, you know, nothing makes someone more interested in you than when they find out you've taken time to be interested in them. Right? So show interest in your audience, learn something about them before you actually tell them a story. If you can, in some way, make yourself attractive to them, your story will be heard differently. But then the second piece of it is that most, uh, most storytellers fail by not having a good call, a well-defined call to action. And a lot of people think that's a business phrase, right? It's a term.

Starting point is 00:04:32 It's a, boy, we're going to close a deal here. Actually, call to action means what do you want them to do, feel, or think when they're done listening to you? And a call to action can be important even if the story you're telling is over a dinner conversation, right? It's like, I want you to maybe want more time with me. That may be my call to action.

Starting point is 00:04:55 But can I make sure that that's abundantly clear and don't leave call to action, as you know, as a sales guy, you never leave your call to action in question. You never leave it hanging out there as a hope that they heard me. No, you make it clear. And, you know, someone says, boy, that was a great dinner and you're a great storyteller. You're like, boy, you know what?

Starting point is 00:05:21 Let's have more dinners because I got more stories. Let's do this. And again, you're making sure that the call to action is clear. It seems like that is really the foundation for leadership also, though, is to create actionable futures. Right. I could tell you a story, but if at the end of it, you're going, well, that was a great story. And that's the end of what you say, then by the way, to think something, to believe something, to want to follow me, right, where I'm going. And so, but again, too many people leave that to chance. They hope that you're going to define or divine the lesson when the truth is that's

Starting point is 00:06:24 a really dangerous prospect. So how do we stimulate the desire within somebody while we're telling the story? Because we have to connect with them, obviously, and we have to put them in the shoes of somebody in the story somehow so that they want to take that action. I mean, is there some psychological principle or some way that we can tie them to that? The best stories are ones in which the listener can see themselves in the story, right? They're co-creating the story with you. As they're listening, they're putting themselves in the story with you. And so, as you're telling the story, the best stories actually almost kind of leave a spot for the

Starting point is 00:07:09 listener, right? They leave a they leave a seat at the table. And so it's but it's about and if you can make that listener feel like they are connected to or similar to one of the characters in your story, then that's the very best way to make them feel a connection to what you're sharing with them. So if I'm telling a story that I want you to come to work for me, I'm going to tell a story about someone like you who came to work for me and exploded, right? And just had enormous success. If I tell the story about somebody who's not like you, somebody who is

Starting point is 00:07:52 already a version 3.0 of you, you're not going to resonate with it. So I need to A, know you, know enough about you that I can make my story and you kind of align. Can you give us an example of a, I mean, what, what is your favorite story, Don? I mean, you gotta have something that you really, really love. Is there something that sticks in your head is maybe, well, I I'm, I'm often talking to people in groups who are in some level of dysfunction. They're facing some level of adversity. The economy is working against them. Regulation might be. Maybe it's in the world of real estate. Maybe it's what's happening at the highest levels of the industry that seem to make some things implode, right, or feel like they're imploding. And so if you're talking about adversity, I love to tell a story about, and you and I have shared the story before, about Warwick Dunn, you know, a college football player whose mother was shot and killed in a robbery to banks. She was a police officer.

Starting point is 00:09:05 He graduates from college as a football player, makes his way to the NFL, but he starts buying homes for women like his mother, single moms. He goes on, very successful NFL career, wins a big award called the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award. And he gets a chance to write a book,

Starting point is 00:09:26 asked me to write it with him. And as we're writing the book, I ask him a question that led us to go to death row to meet the guy that killed his mom. And in that conversation, on death row, Warwick actually forgave the man for what he had done. As we left the prison, he and I are talking about it. I'm like, where did you get that? And he said, you know what? My mother used to tell me many things. But the one thing she said most often was that it doesn't matter if you're white or you're black.

Starting point is 00:09:58 It doesn't matter if you're rich or you're poor. It doesn't matter if you're born on the side of the tracks or raised on that one. There's one thing we all have in common and that is that there will be a moment that something will happen that will change the way you wake up the next morning adversity something is going to challenge you in a way that will change the direction of your life and in that moment, you can be bitter or you can become better. And as my son, I ask you to always be better. I tell that story. And then I start talking about, by the way, I get it. What's happening in your industry is tough. And guess what? You get to wake up tomorrow and choose, which will I be? Do I want to be bitter or better? And when you align yourself with Warwick Dunn,

Starting point is 00:10:47 this guy that did this incredible thing and is this incredible human, you start realizing that's a choice I can make. I can choose bitter or better, but it's a choice I must make because the default position will always be bitter. So anyway, it's a story. How I landed depends on where you are and what you're struggling with. I'll tell you, there are key words that seem to resonate to me in that, that I'm sure different aspects resonate with different people. And I mean, first of all, it's very heart touching. You know, the, the tragedy he went through with losing his mother, um, you know,

Starting point is 00:11:30 her service to society and gave her life and doing so. I mean, how, how can you not be heartfelt in that moment? And then which keeps you riveted to the story, right? You know what, you're not checking out on that story because the guy is so like, you want to know what he does next. You're so, and, and, and, and, but in all of that, where I'm really wanting you to do is think about what you're going to do next, but I have to get you through to the end. And then I want you to see yourself as him. You're facing adversity too, just as he did. Make the choice, bitter or better.

Starting point is 00:12:07 And again, bitter or better kind of becomes the money line, right? That's the, every good story kind of you want to have a line that they can use as memorable. The number of organizations I've shared that story in who've actually put bitter or better up on the cafeteria wall in their break room or whatever it is, there's quite a few. So the bottom line is that, again, stories, when they follow, when there are a few habits of well-told stories that we can adapt and adopt, adapt to and adopt in our telling of them, we become better at it. Amazing. Uh, I'll tell you, I had to, uh, research Warwick and see what

Starting point is 00:12:56 he's up to. Apparently he's donated 217 homes now to single moms. Isn't that crazy? I mean, talk about it. I think the number is like 538 children woke up in a house this morning that they got to call their own because of him. Like it's up to 578 now. 578. Wow. So I'm off by 40 kids, but how amazing is that? Right? Yeah. I have to look at his website all the time to try to figure out what his numbers are because he constantly a man who's dedicated his life to helping. And I mean, talk about just somebody who continues to shine in this world. And it's crazy because most athletes, you and I both know many who have had charities. The second their career is over, the charity kind of dwindles off because now I'm on to the next guy and the next star, the next charity, right? And that's usually what happens. Most people, their attention to athletes kind of

Starting point is 00:14:11 wanes after the athlete is no longer in a position of stardom, right? Warwick Dunn's charity grows in his absence from the league, which is really incredible. Yeah. It's amazing. So, so many people have stories in them. They don't know how to discover those. Is there something that we should look for to understand our story? Yeah. Adam, you know what? I hadn't planned to do this, but I'll send it to you if you'd like, and you can put it in show notes. But I actually have come up with a list of 45 questions that I think if you ask yourself, almost every one of these questions will lead you to a story you can tell. There are questions about, for example, hey, you work for this company and you

Starting point is 00:14:59 could work anywhere else. Why? Why do you stay here? Tell me the answer to that question. And I know there's a story in there. Unless you tell me it's just the best paid company on the planet. That's pretty boring. But tell me the story about somebody you've served whose life is better because you had a chance to be in service of them uh tell me about somebody you work with who who absolutely uh you marvel at every time they they show up because they just they either have the right demeanor or they bring something to the to the workplace that you've never that you just don't find naturally. And as you start asking questions about other people and other things or moments in your life,

Starting point is 00:15:48 you find those stories that you can tell that are, that, that actually really do impact other people because they, they shine a little light on who you are, but at the same time, they're really, you're reflecting on, on generally somebody else and some, something other than yourself. And that is a nice,

Starting point is 00:16:13 humble way to tell a great story. So when we're learning to tell our, our story, is there a certain process you go through or a certain, you know, way that you look at, you know, what's the, is there a formula for a good story? So I argue there's none. The best storytellers don't follow a formula, but they do have a certain series of habits, uh, of really well told stories that, um, they, they, but in, in the two that I mentioned, know your audience and understand what your call to action is, are the kind of two of the really best and most important habits. But, yeah, I've I've I've kind of divined 10 habits of well-told stories. I've just been in a study of storytelling for the last 30 years, and I love I love getting in and talking about it can you give

Starting point is 00:17:06 us a few of those habits uh i actually uh i actually have a workbook right here so you know we we turned i i actually do it as a little program now i actually teach storytelling and so yeah it's um it's really fun i mean you you talk about the importance of every good story is uniquely yours. In other words, if you want to tell a story, don't tell a story that somebody could find easily on Google. Make it somehow yours. It doesn't necessarily have to be your story. Literally, somebody could tell Warwick Dunn's story after listening to this podcast between us. But what they'll say is, hey, I was listening to this awesome podcast and I heard this great story.

Starting point is 00:17:51 What does it tell somebody? Right. It tells somebody else that you're listening to something to get better. You're listening to a podcast to grow. And in the process, you learn this new skill set. Right. You learn something about this guy that maybe made you think differently. So make the story uniquely yours, whatever the story might be. Use emotion.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Emotion is an enormous piece of storytelling, but not all negative and not all positive. You actually have to put people, depending on how long you take in the story put them on a little bit of a roller coaster right you want them to be you know excited and then you want them to be in some ways touched by by by it and uh in a way that allows them to to to feel like you just told them a 10-minute story and it felt like nothing and uh so a roller coaster will take them there. The one that I would tell you is probably the most important is called reversing the IU ratio. Most people tell stories that are, I did this, I did that. That gets pretty boring and self-absorbed after a minute or two. So look at your story and wherever you use the word I, see if there's a way to reverse it and say the word you. Instead of saying, I climbed Mount Kilimanj felt like to be at the top of the world's tallest mountain looking down at all that's around you?

Starting point is 00:19:30 See the difference in the way the two feel? Bringing you into the story makes my story better heard by you. And so reduce the I's, increase the U's, reverse the I-U ratio. So anyway, I'm just rattling off a few there. Those are incredible points. It seems to me. It's very thoughtful. Everything's very intentional.

Starting point is 00:19:55 A really well-told story is intentionally built. And I think that's important. Well, let me ask you this then, because it seems like a lot of business leaders do not have a good story. They have a story. They just don't know how to tell it. There we go. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:14 What, how can we encourage that within an organization? Because people really don't connect. I mean, you know, sure there's a brand, but there has to be a story tied to the brand. Heck yeah. And something holistic about that that really ties your heart to the why of the organization. Well, one of the questions on that list that I have is name something that your organization that absolutely just touches your heart every time you talk about it, every time you think about it? What's out there about the organization that absolutely makes you wake up every day and go, man, I want more of that to happen. How do I do my part? Have you seen any business leaders figure out their story and create something transformative with that? Do you have any examples of that? Yeah, I'll tell you. I was working with

Starting point is 00:21:12 one just last week, G.J. Hart, the CEO of Red Robin Restaurants. He's a turnaround CEO. He turned around California Pizza Kitchens, is now at Red Robin. But he can tell the story about the challenge he had becoming someone who could turn something around. And he tells this amazing story about being in the bathroom, shaving, looking at his wife and saying, you know what, I don't know that I can do this during one of the dark days at California pizza kitchens. And his wife and saying, you know what, I don't know that I can do this, you know, during one of the dark days at California pizza kitchens. And his wife looking at him and saying, dude, shut up and get the, go, go, go do it. People need you. People need you to lead. And he said it took his own wife to kind of reframe him because all of us face those dark days, right? But him telling the story made him more human.

Starting point is 00:22:06 He's the CEO. He's the boss. He's always on. But the truth is he's telling you about this moment. He's shaving and asking himself, do I have it in me? Which every one of us ask ourselves regularly. Everyone in the audience asks themselves regularly, do I have it in me today to do what I have to do to turn this around?

Starting point is 00:22:26 And he said, I was blessed that I had somebody in my life, my wife, who could tell me, dude, quit whining. There are others who are depending on you. Go do what you know how to do because you're uniquely qualified. And by saying that, he's letting them know that he needed a cheerleader he's also saying by the way i'm here today to be your cheerleader i'm here today that to to remind you the next time you're shaving the next time you're standing there the next time you're asking yourself do i have it in you i'm here to say you do just you know it's just i watched him and he's just, he's a masterful storyteller because he brought himself, the CEO took himself down to the level that everyone in the audience could relate to. And then he shared a moment of humility, you know, where his own wife had to set him straight, but he did it with a message that was aimed at them.

Starting point is 00:23:25 It's fascinating about this, Don. had to set him straight, but he did it with a message that was aimed at them. There's power. Fascinating about this, Don is, I mean, the, here's the reality is he wasn't like pulling puppies out of a burning building or anything like that, or winning the Superbowl or anything of that nature. He's shaving and has self doubt. Right. And he turns it into a, a captivating story. I mean, it's, we've all got something like that in us.

Starting point is 00:23:45 Absolutely. Right. And some of us, like you, have pulled puppies out of buildings. So you're amazing. Your stories are better than all the rest of ours. Thank you. I mean, I haven't written 12 New York Times bestsellers. But hey, we all have a great story.

Starting point is 00:24:07 And I know, uh, I mean, to, to turn ourselves into masterful storytellers, I think is a skill that is neglected in this day and age. When you look at the history of mankind, you know, we, stories will be told on cave walls and, um, family stories and the rules of a tribe were told by storytellers to the new people in the tribe or the people coming up in that tribe. And that's how generations knew what happened to them, right? Exactly. And now we have Google and people suck at telling stories. So, I mean, this is a skill, I think, that leaders need to have. They have to have it. I don't think you can lead effectively in this day and age in a world in which emotional connection is required, right, between those who lead and those they lead, right? Emotional connection is required

Starting point is 00:25:09 and you don't, you show your best connective tissue through story. There you go. There's, there's the, uh, the punchline of the, the whole podcast folks. I mean, it's the importance of this can't be overstated. No, that's why you've been blogging about it for, you know, it seems like every, every other blog recently has been on storytelling. It has. And, um, storytelling and story building. And I think, I mean, you, you tie both of them together so well, uh, because you, you teach us how to tell the story, but you teach us also how to build the story. And I think that's imperative.

Starting point is 00:25:54 And then I think one thing that would be a really great next level of that is building a story bank. I think one of the things that I argue all the time is that any good storyteller should have 10 or so stories that they've actually thought enough through, actually created well enough. And as I said, like with the Warwick Dunn story, I can land that story in a lot of different places because your adversity is going to be different than mine or someone else's. So how do I tie what Warwick went through to your adversity to make you feel like the story was for you? First off, I have to know what your adversity is, right? That's know your audience. But the second part is I have to have the story built well enough to be able to tell it that I can end it with, you know what, just as Warwick had to deal with some level of, just as his mother said, and Versailles promised all of us, um, where you go with it, uh, is, but having 10 or so really good stories in your bank allows you to, in the moment, pull out a really good story that you can use when required. That's, that's amazing. Build a story bank folks. Um, I, I've. I have a question about that as we wrap up the show here. A lot of people, a it might be. I don't know what it, what it is. I used to, I started telling one, um, a while ago when I was a SWAT commander.

Starting point is 00:27:50 And I remember thinking to myself, I have to connect better with the community because all I was doing is kicking doors and, you know, running in and blowing things up and things like that. So I'm, I'm thinking, all right, I need to do a little community policing here and connect better. And I thought, I'm a big, tough SWAT guy in my uniform and got my gun belt on and everything. And I see this kid standing in his front yard. It was actually in my neighborhood. And I'm leaving my neighborhood to go on duty in my police car. And I see this boy standing out there.

Starting point is 00:28:24 And he waves at me as I'm driving by. And I wave at him. And I stop. And I get out. And I walk over. walk over like, how are you doing son? He goes, great. I said, um, have you ever met a policeman before? He goes, no, I haven't. I said, well, it's nice to meet you. And he's like, thanks. And he goes, can I ask you a question? And I go, sure. And I'm like, this is great. You know, maybe this kid's going to tell me where there's a crack house or he's going to tell me what's going on. Or he's like, this is really secret. I'm thinking this is really good. And I've been over, I put my hands on my knees. I'm like, no, you can tell the police anything. He goes, anything? I go, yeah, anything. He goes, your fly's open. Like I, I went from being eight feet tall to

Starting point is 00:29:10 about two inches tall there, uh, at that moment, but the humility that I learned at that moment. And it was, it was fascinating because when I was introduced, But that's such a great story because whatever room you're in front of, you know, what often happens, especially if you're on a stage or in front of the room, the vision is you up here and we're down here, right? So by doing that, you just brought us eye to eye. You just made, you know, but you also, you also could finish the story off by checking your fly and then actually saying, just wanted to make sure that no one here had the same message for me. And that way you kind of have a little joke there. And then you get off to, then you take that story and it allows you to go almost anywhere you want

Starting point is 00:29:53 to go because now you're one of them, right? You're one of the audience. And that's all. It's funny, but you know, what freaks me out is going on stage and thinking, is my fly open? How do you check this? No, I actually did an event with a Microsoft leader. And we were talking through teaching a story and how he could make himself. Because he was kind of one of those people that everybody thought of him as quite distant. And he decided to share a story about being at that exact convention center where we were just a couple of years earlier. And he was on the phone. He was so, he was just, and everybody was imagining him.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Yeah, that's the guy, right? He's so busy. But then he talks about, and I just had, had, had to go to the restroom. He goes, but I'm just, you know, I'm locked in this conversation. It's so important. He says, but I make my way in the restroom and I'm looking around around going when did they take the urinals out of the men's room the entire room got it right but it but it allowed everybody to laugh at this guy in a moment and it and it for many ways in many ways it changed the the dynamic of uh of his presentation to the group. So yes, those kinds of moments when people of authority can offer something

Starting point is 00:31:09 that brings them back down to earth, it's always good. I love it. I love it. Don, this has been a wonderful conversation. I have a question I ask all of the great leaders on Start With A Win, and that's how do you start your day with a win?

Starting point is 00:31:26 So for me, I think the, I mean, the most important thing I do in the morning, I love this is that, um, you know, uh, when I'm at home, I get a chance to get a, get a quick kiss before I get out of bed. My wife is, uh, always that we're, she's quite affectionateate i think that's really important and in the morning if i'm on the road the very first thing i do is i always call my my children because i just love them to hear no matter where i am um that the first and most important thing i think of is them so it's a it's somewhere it's a family connective moment for me. That's what my win is. And, um, uh, you probably got many that are far more deep and thoughtful than that, but mine is, uh, cause I'm, I feel like I'm a late in life dad. So having a family for me is, um, is a win.

Starting point is 00:32:20 That's a huge blessing. And I'm glad you take the opportunity to do that. Don, you're a great human being and a great dad. And you're a great friend. It's an honor and a pleasure to know you. Everybody, make sure you check out Don Yeager online at Don Yeager at most of the socials. Of course, you can find his 12 New York Times bestsellers online also. I encourage you to check those out. Buy more books. Buy more books.

Starting point is 00:32:44 We need more people reading more often. I know. That's true. Don't just buy them. Read them. There you go. Read them. Highlight them. Put notes in them. Things like that. We love it. So anyhow, Don, we appreciate all you do, my friend. It's great to see you again. Adam, thank you. It never

Starting point is 00:33:00 gets old. I love reading all your work and look forward to maybe the next time I get invited back. There you go. I look forward to seeing you soon. And thanks for being on Starletta Wynn.

Start With A Win - Lead Like a Champion: Don Yaeger on Translating Sports Greatness into Business Success

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